At the beginning of the relationship, the narcissist cannot perceive you as the other, as an object external to him and separate from him. As he embeds you in the shared fantasy, the narcissist converts you into an internal object, a process that I nicknamed snapshotting. And then as the relationship progresses, the narcissist reenacts his original conflict with his biological mother or with a maternal figure in his life, then the narcissist begins to perceive you as the other, as an in other. So at the beginning, you are not an other. You are not the other. You are just a figment of the narcissist's mind. At the end, during the devaluation and discard phases, you are the other, the mechanism and process of othering perceiving someone else as not you is the foundation and the backbone of the narcissist's shared fantasy, idealization, devaluation, discard and replacement or hoovery. It can all be explained by the fluctuations in the narcissist's ability to perceive you as not him, to perceive you as external to him, to perceive you as an autonomous, agentic, independent, efficacious or self-efficacious entity. The narcissist finds it very difficult to assimilate the knowledge that you are not his extension. You are not an internal object. And when this knowledge penetrates somehow, the narcissist defences, this leads to his devaluation. This leads to devaluation. Narcissus then needs to separate from you in order to become an individual and he converts you into a secretary object or an enemy. And today we are going to discuss the other, the concept of the other in psychology and the process, mysterious process and mechanism of othering. And who is better to guide you through this labyrinth than Mwah, Sam Vaknin, the author of Malignant Self-Love, Narcissism Revisited, a former visiting professor of psychology in Southern Chandlery University and a member of the faculty of CIAPS, Commonwealth for International Advanced Professional Studies, Cambridge United Kingdom, Toronto, Canada and an outreach campus in Lagos, Nigeria. Othering, the other, not you. Think of it for a minute. Consider this. It's a very bizarre concept. After all, we perceive reality exclusively through our senses. We process reality within mathematical models in our brains. We never get indirect contact with the world out there, with the environment. We reconstruct everything within our minds. It's a little like a movie or like a simulation that takes place within our minds. So in which sense, in which sense do we perceive other people as other, as not us? How can we be sure that other people are not just figments, imaginary, confabulations, hallucinations, illusions and delusions that we came up with? How can we tell that other people really exist independent of us, not connected and not related to our minds? How can we be sure that our minds are not taking over somehow and making us believe erroneously and counterfactually that other people exist? Now this sounds like a very crazy question, but it lies at the heart of convoluted concepts such as intersubjectivity, the agreement that all human beings share about what it is to be human, and also empathy. Empathy assumes similarity between external objects and you, the empathizer. So if we cast in doubt, if we're skeptical about the externality and separateness of other people, if we suspect even for a minute that other people don't really exist, that there are some kinds of projections or conjuring within our minds, then we're in trouble. We're in trouble because the whole social edifice and social contract collapse. We are therefore incentivized as social beings whose survival depends critically on collaboration and cooperation. We are a cooperative species. We are incentivized to believe that other people are external to us, that we are not other people and other people are not us, that there is some kind of boundary where we end and other people begin. But are these just maxims? Are these just hypotheses? Well, this is the philosophical side. It's important to understand where the problem lies. You know, you have emotions, you have effects, you have cognitions, thoughts, you act, you have behaviors, and you have unconscious primary processes. But all of these things are triggered by others. Our emotions are directed at other people. We love someone.  So there's always an external other which trigger, who triggers our emotions. Similarly, our cognitions, our thoughts, are more frequently than not triggered by the presence or the actions of other people. And when I say other people, they don't have to be present physically. They can be present only in your mind. The real other, the symbolic other, and the imaginary other to use Jacques Lacan's terminology. But it is always the other that engenders, fosters, triggers, and provokes your internal world. The other is the catalyst without which the chemical reactions of your mind would never take place. So your mind is an apparatus. It's a device, apparatus, a device that is responsive to others. Take away all others and you are very unlikely to experience emotions, cognitions. You're very unlikely to act after a certain period of time, except survival, actions needed for survival. And many of your primary unconscious processes would shut down. And the other is indispensable for having an internal world. But we could say the same about the self. The self triggers and actualizes the same potentials in a similar way. The other triggers and actualizes potentials interactively. Let me explain what I just said.  They're all in a potential state. And then the other comes along, someone else, and these potentials translate into reality. The potential emotion of love becomes the real emotion of love in the presence of a loved one. A thought that is potentially there crystallizes and is materialized in the presence of a stimulus emitted by another person. You act on other people, together with other people, in view of other people. So your potential actions become virtual, become actual actions, actualized in the real world because of others, directed at others. This is known as intentionality. So the other triggers and actualizes your potentials by interacting with you, interactively. But the same goes for the self. The self triggers triggers and actualizes the very same potentials by interacting with these potentials. You could think, you could conceive of the self as the set of all potentials and triggers that actualize these potentials. The self, you could say, provokes itself into a into being. The self is the engine of its own becoming. So the self and the other have the same epistemological status and the same functions. Functionally and epistemologically, the self and the other have the same standing and in many ways are indistinguishable. We cannot come up with a rigorous philosophical test, test to tell apart the self and the other because they produce the same outcomes using the same mechanisms, employing the same processes. So if the self and the other accomplish the same things within your mind, if both of them trigger you identically, then you could say that the self is othered. You could say that you regard your self as an other. You other yourself. You perceive it as not you. Now this is not alienation and this is not estrangement. These are pathological processes where you act or you feel, you remote or you think and you can't identify yourself in these actions or thoughts. Or emotions. So these are the processes, for example, which lead ultimately to dissociation. We will not discuss them right now. When I say that the self is othered, that it is perceived as an other, I don't mean that you do not identify yourself in yourself. Of course you realize that yourself has something to do with you, but internally the self is kind of a coordinator, a host personality, if you wish. It monitors, supervises, triggers, deactivates, activates, it's like a switchboard. And so the self is distinguishable definitely from all the other constructs of the personality or the person and also distinguishable from the very processes that it creates and that it triggers and provokes. And because it is distinguishable from these things, it is the primal other, the number one other. The first experience of an other is an experience of the self. Now this sounds very, very counter intuitive and many of you would discard this idea out of hand. They would say, how could you be yourself and regard yourself as not yourself? Let's go back to very, very early childhood between the ages of zero and 36 months or more precisely zero and 18 months when the child does not perceive itself as separate from his mother. It used to be called the symbiotic phase. The child until around age 18 months regards himself and his mother in the world as a single unity, as a unitary universe.  No. The child is embedded in this oceanic feeling that he and mommy in the world are just one and the same. He doesn't even realize that there's a mommy or there's a world. He is reactive to mommy, he smiles at mommy, but these are cues intended to elicit care. They're not real in the mental or psychological sense. Up to a very advanced age, children, mothers in the universe are one and the same. So when you acquire as a baby, when you acquire a self, when suddenly the self begins to emerge from this in undifferentiated mass, suddenly there's you, there's a self. Initially, you perceive this self as not you.  When your self begins to form, when your self becomes, initially you don't identify that it is you. You regard it as a foreign body, a foreign entity, an invasion of some kind, a break in the world, a schism. Suddenly, there is a fourth entity, not you, not mommy, not the world. You're one. Suddenly there's a second entity, not a fourth. There's a second entity there, and this second entity is not recognizable by you as you when you're a baby. And so the self is othered, it's the primal other. It is the outcome of othering the mother, the emergence, constellation, and integration of the self are the direct outcomes, results of separation, individuation. Initially, you are one with mommy, then you begin to separate from mommy. As you separate from mother, your self emerges. Your self is the outcome of this distancing, this distancing and grandiose exploration of the world, and when the self emerges, initially it is perceived as not you and not mommy, of course. You don't know what it is as a baby. It's terrifying. It's a traumatic experience. The self forces you to regard mommy as not you. Mother becomes the other.  You're separating from her. You're individuating.   So the separation and individuation is actually three phases. The initial phase is the symbiotic phase where you are one with mommy and the world. It's a single unity. It has no parts. It has no parts. It has no distinctions. It has no boundaries.  It's one thing. The second phase, you become you. The self emerges and it's a great, great trauma. You feel totally alien, alien and estranged and you don't know what is this thing that is emerging. At first you can't identify yourself in this emerging entity, this alien being, this self. So you other the self. You regard the self as not you in the second phase. In the third phase, you have learned to other by othering the self by regarding the emerging or nascent self as in other, as the other. You have acquired the mechanism, the process and the skill of othering. Now you can other mother. The second othering. So the primal othering is the othering of the self. Regarding the self as not you. The secondary othering is the othering of mother realizing that mother is not you separating from her and becoming an individual. It's easy to prove that the self is othered, that initially we perceive the self as not us when we're very, very, very young. It's easy to prove this because when we look at pathologies such as for example dissociative identity disorder. When we look at other types of dissociative self states like non-sysistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder. When we consider identity diffusion, identity disturbance, all these are forms of othering the self. In all these conditions that I've just mentioned, there is no there is no recognition of the self as you. The person with dissociative identity disorder does not have a self. It recognizes as herself. The same goes for borderline personality disorder, non-sysistic personality disorder. There's always the sense that the self is not you and you are not the self. There's always a kind of diffuse disjointed identity or in the case of borderline personality disorder, identity disturbance. These outliers, these pathologies reveal to us the fact that if you remain stuck in an early phase of personal development and growth, if you remain in more and embedded and enmeshed in early childhood and never progress and never evolve, never mature, if your separation individuation has failed, in all these pathological conditions, indeed you do not perceive, these kind of people do not perceive the self as themselves. They perceive the self as other. They other the self. So if you talk to someone with DID or narcissist or borderline, you will discover that they have a self, when they think of the self, actually they don't have a self, but when they think of the concept of the self, it is perceived as another and other, the other, not, they don't identify with it. Now when I say self, of course, I refer also to an assemblage of self-states, like in Philip Bromber's work and in my work and so on. This assemblage, troop of self-states, is equivalent to the self and it's also othered. Now remember that the child goes through a unitary phase, oceanic feeling phase, then it others the self, it begins to regard the emerging new nascent self as another as the other and then it others mommy, it begins to regard mother as the other and this allows the child to separate and individuate. The primal othering, the initial, the number one, the first process of othering is othering of the self and as I said, it's very traumatic because it involves the breakdown of the unitary world where the infant perceives its separate existence through the mother's gaze. So let me explain. I did it in another video as well. The mother's gaze, the infant's ability to perceive itself through the mother's gaze, this creates the primal othering. When the baby sees itself through the mother's gaze, when the mother frustrates the baby, doesn't cater to all the baby's needs, when the mother rejects the baby by leaving the room, generating enormous abandonment anxiety and separation and security in the initial phase of childhood until age four years old, there's no object constancy.  It is the mother that ends the symbiotic phase, the mother with her behavior, with her gaze, with the way she relates to the baby in short, with her interactions. The mother triggers the primal othering. The mother conveys to the baby, you are not me. Look at you. Look at yourself through my gaze. See yourself in my eyes. You're not me. I'm leaving the room. You're not me. I'm frustrating you. You're not me. You're not me. The message constantly is, you're not me. And then the baby is forced to ask, if I'm not money, if I'm not mother, who am I? And this question, who am I? Gives rise to the construct of self or self states, doesn't matter. Gives rise to the self. Who am I? I'm the self. But wait a minute. I've spent 18 months being selfless without the self. In these 18 months, I, mommy and the world, we were one. Who is this self that mommy imposes on me? Mommy forces me to develop a self. I don't like that. I don't like the self. I'm terrified of being abandoned by my mother. I don't have object constancy. I'm a baby. I'm 18 months old. The self is my enemy. The self is the other. And it is very threatening and very traumatic. And this is primal othering. And the self is the primal othered. The primal other is the self. And it takes the baby a while, another 18 or even longer months, to actually accept the self. Realize that he and the self are one. So these are two processes which go in completely opposite directions. The baby used to be one with mother. And now he broke up with mother and he made her the other. The baby used to be, was to be broken up with the self. He didn't have a relationship with the self. There was a breakup between the baby and the self initially. And then he learned to become one with the self. He learned to other the mother and he learned to become one with the self. So the only way to become one with yourself, with this new entity, the only way is to push mother away and to replace her with the self. It's very similar to the concept of self-object, cohort and so on. Okay. This trauma, this perception of a separate existence through the mother's gaze by internalizing these gaze never goes away. This initial breakup with a love object is the template upon which we build all our future relationships and the only repetition compulsion that is common to all humanity, all of humanity. So it's not pathological, it's the norm.  The mother's gaze becomes an internal eye and this internal eye observes the baby, informs the baby that he is not mother, but then informs the baby that the self is the baby and allows the baby to create a new symbiotic phase with the self. Where things go awry in the case of narcissism is that the mother, mother's gaze does not allow the child to separate from her. And when the self emerges or tries to emerge, it fails. There's a failure of the formation of the self or the ego, if you wish.  He cannot become an individual, he cannot separate. But the mechanism and process of othering is at work. So the child invents an imaginary friend and merges with that friend. The narcissist remains in a symbiotic relationship with the mother interject and also with a substitute self that is essentially false. It's a concoction, it's a piece of fiction, it's a narrative, and it's grandiose, it's cognitively distorted, but it's still better than nothing. It seems that the need to develop a self or again an assemblage of self states, the need to develop a self is innate and probably genetic, and in this sense I'm very close to the views of Fairburn in country. So we are born probably with the need, with a proto ego, proto self. We are born with a nucleus somehow, and then it flowers later on because the mother's gaze pushes the child away, the mother's gaze defines the child as a separate entity and this triggers the ego nucleus and it becomes a self. So forming a self, developing a self is not a choice, it's not a choice, it's an inexorable genetic innate process and when it is suppressed, when it is frustrated, when it is prevented from occurring or unfolding naturally, the result is the false self, a poor counterfactual, unrealistic, fantasy-based defense, it's a fantasy defense. When the mother does not allow the child to separate, when she does not communicate to the child that he is a separate entity, an external object via her gaze, when she doesn't do that, the innate triggered process of developing a self is stunted and thwarted, and to compensate for this lack, for this deficiency, because the child wants to develop a self, is compelled to develop a self, it's not up to the child, it's not a choice, he has to.  The narcissist is a child who has not been allowed to other the self, because the child has not been encouraged to separate from mother and individuate, the mother did not communicate to the child that she separate from him via her gaze, she didn't distinguish herself, there was no distinction, no boundary, no differentiation, so the child withdrew internally into a fantasy space, a paracosm, and within this paracosm, within this virtual reality, he proceeded with normal evolution, normal growth, he proceeded to separate, to individuate, to become, to develop a self, but it's all a fantasy, it's all a dreamscape, it's all, it's not real, and that's why in adulthood the narcissist feels compelled, this is unfinished business, the narcissist tries desperately to convert the fantastic space into reality via the shared fantasy, the narcissist says as an adult, the narcissist says, let me take this fantasy that I've developed as a child, the fantasy in which I have separate, I have individuate and I have a self, let me take this fantasy and let me superimpose it on reality so that I convert the fantasy into reality and then I can really separate and really individuate and really acquire a self like Pinocchio, but to do this I need a partner, someone who would play mommy, someone who would act as the maternal figure in this fantasy, because how can I separate and individuate if I don't have a mother, I need a mother in this shared fantasy and this mother is my intimate partner, I'm going to convert her into a mother, she is real, my intimate partner is real, at least in my mind she's real, there is an internal object in my mind that is distinct from the mother interject, so I know that she's real, I'm going to convert her into a mother and then she's real and then the fantasy will become real and then I'm going to separate and individuate and become a real boy like Pinocchio, so this is the compassion, there is a compassion to convert fantasy to reality and to convert the false self to a real self and to complete the separation and individuation from the mother via a new, the gaze of a new mother who would this time allow the narcissist to become a person to acquire personhood, the trauma of the primal other in the case of the narcissist is a trauma of not completing the primal othering, so he needs to complete it, the whole process is by definition traumatic, it has to involve trauma, that's why narcissists engage in narcissistic abuse, they need to create a traumatic environment for themselves and for the mother, the whole environment should be traumatic because healthy, normal, primal othering, the situation where the baby perceives the new emergent self as the other and this is very traumatizing but it's healthy and it's normal because it leads to separation and individuation, the narcissist needs to do the same, he needs to experience this trauma, so he pushes via projective identification, he pushes his partner to traumatize him because there is no emergence of self, there is no constellated integrated self and there is no separation and individuation without trauma, that is also the insight in cult therapy by the way, so at that stage there has been primal othering, the self has been perceived as the other and this was followed by the othering of the mother, separation, individuation and a symbiotic merger and fusion between the child and the self, so the self is no longer perceived as the other, the self is perceived as the child, the child and the self created a new unit, a new unitary universe and it's a very oceanic feeling, it's a very good feeling, introspection and self-reference depend on the primal othering, you need to other the self, you need to regard the self as not you, as the other in order to observe the self, study the self, examine the self, analyze the self, introspect, develop self-awareness, what is self-awareness, you're aware of the self, but who is doing the awareness, not the self, not the self, self-awareness is an excellent example of the continued operation of the primal othering, the othering of the self, considering the self as the other, regulation, self-regulation, agency, self-efficacy, they all depend on introspection, on the ability to perceive yourself from the outside, to observe yourself, to analytically examine yourself, study yourself, so health, mental health crucially depends on the othering process during separation, individuation, first othering yourself and then othering mother and becoming yourself, then you're capable of introspection, of self-reference, self-regulation, agency, self-efficacy, independence, personal autonomy, etc, all the healthy things that we keep preaching you should have or you should develop, othering is crucial for this, now let's go back to narcissism, when the formation of an integrated, constellated self is disrupted because of failure in separation and individuation, such a failure can also be abusive, it can also be the outcome of abuse and trauma because abuse and trauma is disrespect for the child's boundaries, it's breaching the child's boundaries, abuse and trauma are forms of merger, fusion and enmeshment, the abuser engulfs his victim, consumes, subsumes the victim, it's a unitary space where no separation is allowed, so the formation of the constellated integrated self is a very delicate and fine-tuned manner, an absent mother, a dead mother could disrupt it, an abusive mother could disrupt it, disrupt it, the lack of trauma could disrupt it, trauma is critical to othering the self and then othering mother, trauma there's no separation and individuation without trauma because it's very traumatic to realize that mother and the world are not you, suddenly you're all alone and much diminished, it's traumatic but some mothers don't allow the child to be traumatized, they pamper the child, idolize the child, pedestalize the child, gossip the child, spoil the child, these are all forms of denial of trauma, avoidance of trauma and so in the absence of trauma there's no separation individuation and the othering of the self leads nowhere because the self cannot emerge and then the child tries to compensate via fantasy defense and invents a false self, okay so when the formation of an integrated constellated self is disrupted, the result is no self, so the two types of people, people with a self or assemblage of self states and people with no self, no self is the coordinating core, I refer you to my work on IPA, Intra-psychic activation model, so when this happens there is an empty schizoid core where a star should have been at the self, it's exactly like a black hole, a black hole used to be a star or a galaxy which collapsed upon itself, disappeared in a way, so it's the same here the self was not allowed to emerge, to constolate, to integrate and the self imploded under its own gravity if you wish and tuff vanished and what was left behind a black hole, an empty schizoid core and the empty schizoid core is devoid of any other because the self did not emerge, there was no primal othering because there was no primal othering, there was no secondary othering of the mother so this kind of child doesn't know how to other people, he doesn't know how to perceive other people as the other, he has no training or skill or experience in othering people and this leads to an inability to other people, inability to relate to other people as external separate objects, if you've never experienced separation from your mother how would you experience separation from other people, they're not separate, if you've never experienced yourself as an external object, the other or your mother as an external object, the other then you would experience no one in the future as an external object as you've never had experience in this, there is an incapacity to actualize intentional emotions, affects, cognitions and behaviors, in other words all these emotions, cognitions, they're usually directed at the other, they're dependent on the existence of the other, they're triggered by the other, they're catalyzed by the other, they're provoked by the other, take away all the others and you don't have an internal world, so children who were not allowed to other the self and then they were not allowed to other the mother, these kind of children not only cannot perceive other people as other, as external and separate, they cannot also relate to other people, they cannot have emotions because emotions are intentional and directional, you love someone but if you don't recognize that there is someone out there, the other, you cannot love, you cannot love, you cannot even think properly, you cannot act, the narcissist world is depopulated, devoid of others, narcissist unable to recognize people is external, everything is inside his head, it's all a vast wasteland of quiescent deactivated and inert internal objects, kind of a cemetery, effigies and ancient Egyptian monies, that's how the internal world of Anastasia looks, so of course in such an environment the level of activity, emotional activity, cognitive activity, affective activity is very reduced, much reduced, that's why I say that in many respects are zombies and symbols, they're not fully there, not only in the sense that they're not present or they're not alert or they're not open to possibilities and opportunities and other people, no, they're not there inside, not only outside, they are in absence because the level of activity is very close to zero, it's like the absolute zero in outer space where no molecule and no atom move anymore because there's no energy to move, fantasy is an attempt to compensate for these deficiencies, by othering constructs or by othering internal objects, when you cannot other people because you've never had experience as a child of othering your mother, of separating from her, you cannot other people, you try to other something else, you try to regard for example yourself as the other and this is the false self or you try to perceive internal objects as the other which leads later to the evaluation, so there is a desperate attempt to not be alone, this is existential, solipsistic, deep deep space loneliness and the only way to repopulate the devastation and the wasteland is by othering your insight, by othering your introjects, by othering the avatars in your mind, by othering internal objects, by othering pieces of yourself, by othering self-states, by othering something, so the narcissism while incapable of othering anyone in the outside, constantly others himself, he others himself not as a unity, because the narcissist is highly fragmented and so on, he others elements of himself, he others portions of himself, processes, constructs, he keeps othering them in order to not feel alone and this is the fantasy, when he comes across an intimate partner, he immediately converts her to an internal object because he doesn't know how to other external objects, but he has a lot of experience in othering internal objects, ironically the narcissist feels alone when he is confronted with a real flesh and blood external person, then he feels totally alone because he cannot perceive that person as separate external and the other, but the minute the narcissist had internalized and introjected that person, the minute there is an internal object in the narcissist mind that represents this external object, the narcissist doesn't feel alone anymore because he can other this internal object, he can regard this internal object as the other, now the narcissist mistakenly perceives internal objects as the other, he would insist that the internal object in his mind is actually separate and external, he would be very insulted if you were to imply that he doesn't see you, that he doesn't really notice you, that he doesn't pay attention, that he is not into you, he would be very insulted and he would deny it vehemently, in his mind he has othered you, he has othered the internal object that represents you, your introject and from that moment on that internal object acts as the other, it triggers the narcissist's emotions and cognitions and effects and behaviors and primary processes, the narcissist is triggered internally rather than like most healthy people externally, and this is why I keep saying that narcissist is in effect a variant of psychosis, there is a failure of othering the world, failure at incorporation, narcissist is unable to other the world and then to incorporate this knowledge, instead the narcissist others elements in his mind and then behaves as if these elements in his mind are real and this is of course what we call fantasy defense, that's why the false self is an imaginary friend, now when we come to the phase of devaluation or discard at that point the narcissist reverts from othering to something called alterity, alterity is othering people by considering them inferior to secretary, evil, somehow deficient, so even devaluation involves othering, it's just a redefinition of the internal object, a recharacterization of the internal object, looking at the internal object differently, this is, I differentiate it from othering, this othering is basically neutral, you just perceive the externality and separateness of another person and you make assumptions, you make assumptions about the other person's mind, this is known as theory of mind and you have an internal working model which coordinates all these insights, but alterity is a value judgment, alterity is judgmental, it's harsh, it's sadistic, it's rejecting, it's humiliating, it's shaming, according to Spivak it is a form of othering that involves devaluation, so but ironically it is at this stage that the narcissist begins to other you as an external object, in preparation for discarding you the narcissist preserves the integrity and the ideal internal object because the idealized internal objects idealize the narcissist, the narcissist's co-idealization depends on the preservation of the idealized nature of his internal objects, if the narcissist works to contain bad objects, evil objects and worthy objects he wouldn't be able to idealize himself, the whole point of the exercise of idealizing other people is to idealize himself so that he can fight off the bad object, so he cannot devalue the internal object, what he does instead he suddenly notices you as an external object, he begins to regard you as the other and then he devalues him, so there are two phases in every shared fantasy, first phase involves snapshotting, converting you into an internal object, idealizing the internal object, othering the internal object, regarding the internal object as the other and allowing the internal object which is now the other to trigger emotions and thoughts and so on so forth in the narcissist's mind, the same way external others do for healthy people but then comes a point where the narcissist has a compelling need to separate from you an individual because you will have become a total maternal figure, a mother, so then the narcissist has to suddenly wake up and notice that you are an external object because he cannot devalue the internal object, if he were to devalue the internal object he would be devaluing himself which is an impossibility of course, he has a grandiosity defense, so a grandiosity cognitive distortion, so instead of devaluing the internal object he devalues you as an external object and that means that you suddenly will have become an external object identifiable as such separate from the narcissist and the subject of othering, of course it's great because it allows the narcissist to separate from you and to individuate in his mind, of course he fails and while he fails I refer you to the videos in the shared fantasy playlist, now othering is not a new concept, it's been it's been studied and examined for at least 150 years Lawrence Cahoon wrote in 1996 what appears to be cultural units, human beings, words, meanings, ideas, philosophical systems, social organizations, they're maintained in their apparent unity only through an active process of exclusion, opposition and higher carerization, other phenomena or units must be represented as foreign or other through representing a hierarchical dualism in which the unit is privileged and favorite, the other is devalued in some way, Hegel almost 200 years ago observed that otherness is something that is crucial for the formation of human consciousness, Lacan took on this idea much much later about 150 years later so the other in the work of Hegel and Hegelians, the other can be associated with the image outside oneself, perceived and identified within the mirror stage in Lacan's work, it's roughly when the baby sees itself in the mirror and gains an idea of itself as discontinuous from mummy and from the rest of the world, there's a major trauma, seeing yourself in the mirror according to Lacan is a break, a total attack on all the baby's conception of the universe so and Lacan went to an extreme, he said that even the unconscious is actually other, even the unconscious is the outcome of othering other people, he said that the unconscious is structured like a language and we acquire language from other people, so it is structured by other people, the unconscious he said is the discourse of the other, the unconscious is not interior on the contrary, since speech and language are inter subjective phenomena, the unconscious is trans individual, the unconscious is so to speak outside according to Lacan, the exteriority of the symbolic in relation to men is the very notion of the unconscious explained Lacan inexplicably, all he was trying to say is that in order to form the unconscious we need to other, we need to perceive that we are not one with everything, but we need to other people, the primal othering is an othering of the self and the secondary othering of the mother, but we learn how to other and then we acquire language because language comes from outside, from the other, from others, we acquire language and then we use language to construct our unconscious, the unconscious is a language in Lacan's work, so the unconscious is, comes from the other, not internally, externally, if the unconscious seems interior internal, this is an effect of the imaginary which blocks the relationship between the subject and the other and which inverts the message of the other. Lacan argued that ego formation occurs through mirror stage misrecognition, the child sees itself in the mirror and initially doesn't recognize itself, it's a great metaphor, in my work the child kind of beholds the emerging self and feels very alien, feels the distinct that is emerging is not me, he doesn't own it, he doesn't become one with it until he has rejected mother, to become one with the self you need to separate from mother, you need to reject her, so Althusser was a post-Marxist or neo-Marxist philosopher and psychologist, Althusser said the same, he applied it to politics and collectives, anyhow Lacan said the eye is always in the field of the other, Lacan designated actually two others, there was other with the lower case o, small o, a in French, and other with a capital o, the small stage, the lower case o other is the mirror stage, it sets up an image of the ego as an ideal eye for the subject, the ideal eye becomes the other within the subject's experience of the eye, it's a component of the self that is internally divided, this is Lacan, my work goes much further, I don't make this distinction, I think initially there is a rejection, a feeling of alienation and estrangement from the totality of the self, not from one element of the self, there's no idealization of the self initially, the self is perceived as threatening because the self pushes the child away from mother, the child perceives the self, the self is an enemy who is separating him from his mother the child rejects the self, others the self totally, now in Lacan's work the other with a capital letter represents other people, other subjects who the individual encounters in social life, but it also stands for language, the conventions of social life, law for example, because language and the codes of human society pre-exist any individual human being, these systems are other to the individual, in short you're born into an existing society, into an existing world, and that society or world, they are other to you, they're not you by definition, and the fact that subjects themselves internally alienated by rejecting a part of the self or in my work all the self, so the fact that subjects must employ the other, other people in order to acquire language at least to understand the rules of the game, they're forced to interact with other subjects, and this gives rise in Lacan's work to the totality of the human psyche, the term other in his work and in other scholars work is used in a variety of ways, but it depicts the manner and processes by which perceptions of others are attained, this is what I've been saying before, others with a big with a capital letter, other people, trigger, trigger the internal world, trigger your emotions, your cognitions, everything that's happening to you even unconsciously has to do with others, we are relational creatures, I strongly and vehemently reject the concept of the individual, we're utterly relational creatures, and so they trigger this, and similarly the self triggers these internal reactions, now child psychologists postulate that the perceptions of the other proceed from processes of contrast, comparison, analogy, the self sets itself apart from mother, father, siblings, and then strangers, we have the work of Klein, the work of Ericsson, they dealt with these issues, but I think they didn't go deep enough, they describe mechanical processes of recognizing I am not mommy, I am not father, I am not my brother and I'm not my friend or my teacher, so then they are the other, no I think it's much more profound, I think othering is the core of self formation and then psychological activity and operation throughout life, we constantly other internally and externally, and when the othering fails we have psychopathologies, the etiology of psychopathology is, or etiopathology is othering, failure in othering, separation and individuation is a single, very important, private case of othering, emergence of the self is a single private case, important of othering, love is a case of othering, everything is othering in effect, it's an underlying concept, consciousness of the self depend upon processes that affect distinct characteristics of others. Okay, in philosophy we have the likes of Hegel, Husserl and so on so forth, in continental philosophy in Europe, there are serious investigations of the question of otherness, in conjunction with the tendency of the self, to conceive all things after one's own likeness, so we tend to deceive ourselves, we tend to lie ourselves, when we perceive others we tend to make them so similar to us that sometimes the otherness dissipates, the lines are blurred, it's precisely what the narcissism does, narcissism is an extreme case of this, the narcissism converts everything to internal objects, which are essentially part of him and serve to idealize him, they are functional, it's a desire of the ego to feel at home externally and internally, that's why the ego mediates reality, because he wants to prevent outcomes of punishment, self alienation, disintegration, psychosis and so on, the ego wants to, the ego is focused on a comfortable coexistence between the other and the person, I'm not saying the self, because the self is one of the others, the other emerged in context, in the context of these philosophies, and some of them were talking about a transfigured or disfigured essence, no longer a reflection of itself, unaware of itself, this kind of other is a product of the self or at least only knowable first, because of one's awareness of the self, Levinus for example, according to Levinus the other is the very condition of one's own existence, the other is not any particular person, it's an entire category that Levinus calls otherness, which makes being and self I possible, there is a reversal of the presupposition of people like Husser phenomenologists, like Husser and others, that the self is the beginning of all philosophical inquiry, in my work which stands on the shoulders of giants like Levinus and Lacanus, in my work the beginning of all philosophical inquiry is the otherness, the othering, the othering of the self, the othering of mother, this is where questions emerge, who am I, what am I doing here, how am I distinct from others, where are my boundaries, where do I stop and others start, if others are so influential in triggering my emotions and cognitions and so on, maybe they are not others, maybe they are figments of my mind and this is the narcissistic failure to tell apart the others from internal objects and so on so forth, but only a philosophical inquiry starts with others, not with the self, the concept that the self requires the other to define itself is nothing new, but many philosophers didn't go the full nine yards, they said yeah the self requires others, but it is the self that does the othering and therefore the self is the be all and end all the beginning, the alpha and the omega and it was Hegel that introduced first, introduced the idea that the other is a constituent in self-consciousness, he wrote of, he wrote each consciousness pursues the death of the other, what he meant to say is that in seeing the separateness between you and another person, there's a feeling of alienation and you try to resolve this by synthesis, by somehow merging of using with the other person, there's a famous parable, it's known as the master-slave dialectic, I'm not going to it right now, Sartre was the same in being in nothingness, he describes how the world is changed, altered at the appearance of another person, so another person appears, enters your world, enters your sphere, your space, you're changed, the world now appears to orient itself around this other person, Sartre presented it however without any life-threatening need for resolution like Hegel, he said it's just a phenomenon, it's just a feeling, it's not a threat and you don't need to resolve it by merging with the other somehow to take over the other, Levinas is perhaps the most instrumental philosopher when we deal with the question of the other, Levinas said if it is the other, it's radically other, if it is very much like you or little like you, you can't really perceive it as the other, to perceive someone as the other, he or she must be radically different to you, he connected it to all kinds of deliberations about God, he's an amazing, amazing thinker, but the other he said is superior or prior to the self, which is also in my work, in my work the othering mechanism is innate, genetic, born and precedes the self by many, many months, he said the other is superior to the self, it's prior to the self, the mere presence of the other makes demands before one can respond by helping them, by ignoring them in short, before one as a self, and this idea and the idea of face-to-face encounter infiltrated thinkers like Derrida, Derrida said that there's impossibility of pure presence of the other, the other could be other when this, when this pure alterity is encountered, so issues of language and representation and so on and so forth, Levinas said that othering, the process of othering precedes the emergence of the self, and Derrida said that the other exists in distinction from, separate from othering it, so the other exists even if you were not to other it, even if othering is not applied, the other exists there, a priori, and there's a question of language, representation and so on and so forth, I recommend those of you who are interested to delve even deeper, I recommend that you search online for this saying and this said in Levinas' work, Levinas gave the example of insomnia, insomnia and wakefulness, he said that it is an ecstasy or exteriority towards the other that forever remains beyond any attempt at full capture, this otherness is interminable or infinite, even when we murder another person, the otherness remains, it has not been negated and has not been controlled, this infiniteness of the other allows Levinas to derive other aspects of philosophy and science, a secondary to the other, Levinas wrote, the others that obsess me in the other do not affect me as examples of the same genus united with my neighbor by resemblance of common nature, individuations of the human race or chips of the old block, the others concern me from the first, here fraternity precedes the commonness of a genus, my relationship with the other as neighbor gives meaning to my relations with all the others, and that's what I've been saying in my work, once you have acquired the skill to other by othering yourself and then othering mother, you will be able to other everyone, and once you've othered one person, you have othered everyone, you've othered all people, all you need to do is other one person, so essentially if you've succeeded to other mother by separating from her, you're healthy, you're set for life, you're ready, this is where the failure, this is where the failure is that causes extreme pathologies such as narcissism. Okay, otherness is being studied now in neuroscience and in psychology and so on and so forth, many scientists are asking whether the brain and the mind can be made to transcend self-consciousness and affect, to relate differently, to desire, interest, in short, many scientists are beginning to consider the option of self-othering in effect, they don't call it self-othering but it is self-othering and many systems in eastern philosophy and meditation and so on, they are focused, they're centered around self-othering, they call it by mistake the death of the ego, western popularizers with very little profound understanding of eastern philosophy, call it the death of the ego, it's nothing to do with the death of the ego, it's the othering of the ego, it's not becoming the ego, it's not being the ego, but in my work and in to my mind when you other the ego, when you begin to treat the ego as the other, you're actually regressing, you're regressing to an infantile state which brings about the oceanic feeling known as nirvana, nirvana is because you regressed back to the womb, you became an infant which in western psychology is a form of pathology, moreover if you alienate the ego, if you alienate the self, if you are not you in this sense, if you regard the self as alien to you as the other, then in many respects you begin to develop narcissism, I think many of these techniques including mindfulness and so on are highly narcissistic and induce narcissism, it's temporary narcissism, it's situational narcissism, it's narcissism all the same, but that's the topic for another video, you've been spared, it's been only an hour and something and see you next time, you others.


Let's say the breakfast and plus CV Africa we sincerely apologize for bringing you off the press a little bit behind schedule due to some technical issues but we're up and running now we have Ezekiel Nyaituk who joins us via phone this morning. Ezekiel it's good to have you join us this beautiful Thursday morning. Thanks for having me it's a wonderful morning. Alright then let's let's go through the daily independent ASU Federal Government Committee my perfect fresh agreement soon. ASU Federal Government Committee my perfect fresh agreement soon that's what you have boldly written on the daily independent and federal government says ASU strike more complicated than initially anticipated. Sounds like a what clay right there. Well three airlines may collapse as aviation fuel hits 710 nair per litre. I mean you also have the association saying there's a tendency of having a thousand five hundred now in the next two weeks if government does not intervene. Fuel marketers handling coils and lament for for excursion. International Monetary Fund projects Niger's GDP growth at 3.4 percent inflation to remain elevated and possessing power for that erodes as inflation heat 17.71 percent. We're talking about double digits almost eight years running. A dark horse may emerge Tunibu's running mate is a figure of speech I'm sure you want to figure that out. Party settles for northeast candidates Muslim Muslim ticket. Tunibu needs Muslim Muslim ticket to win election. This is what Carlos Quota to say and electoral act reps to debate motion to override Buhari's veto on section 84 subsection 8 and 60 days extension of voters registration. NMMP 45 local firms jostle for four million litre supply contract and NSC DC deploys nine thousand seven hundred and a forty seven personnel for a kitty guba polls. You also have impeachment 24 lawmakers signed notice to impeach or your deputy governor. We have not announced articles running mate that's what the PDP is saying. We move away from the daily independent a quick look at the nation and on the nation. Last-minute intrigues in PDP over articles running mate anxiety among party chiefs over choice. Aviation fuel hits seven hundred and forty nine per litre as petrol queues returned and or your assembly slams misconduct charges against deputy governor. PDP are the show Niquiti peace part sign in and BS puts inflation rate at seventeen point seven one percent. And just before we take our attention from the nation newspaper this morning issues and varsity union strike complicated says minister government as it talks ongoing and our monarch to invoke curses on Catholic church attackers. OPEC reports Niger's oil outputs decline. It's a lot of trouble for a lot of experts would say but that's it on the nation and we have the leadership newspaper this morning. I just been reporting almost differently but some similarities with the headlines. Twenty four hours to iron a deadline. North East. North West lobby to noble for running mate and PDP screens vice president candidate today. Niger's inflation soar to new height of seventeen point one seven one percent. Niger's inflation soar to new height of seventeen point seven one percent strike. Asso issues more complicated. The Nigerians think the federal government is quartered and that what could it be.  Why I wouldn't step down for one. You have you know. Beature courted on that. And that's the much we can take this morning but just before then reps move to override president Muhammad Dabawari on electoral act amended will look in at section eighty four. If I'm not mistaken subsection eight. That's the much we can take this morning on the leadership and we have the punch this morning. We K. O'Coa face panel today. Camps fight over articles vice president slot. I think who needs vice president that can help secure Niger from APC or cause aid insist. We can structure will give article victory ex-revers commissioners quoted an APC may unveil to noose vice presidential candidate today amid Muslim Muslim ticket controversy and Buhari orders or OK's the TNC's on bond link neck orders five thousand megawatts delivery. July the first. I mean for a population. What are we looking at now. Over two hundred million people. Five thousand megawatts. OK. Our lawmaker's starting judgment on one point seven billion dollars Malibu scam case. That's what the federal government is quoted to say. And varsity lecturers orders spend seven hundred and nineteen days on strike under Buhari only Lagos Delta Caduna two others pay pensions. Pencom is quoted to say it is really saddening if this is something to go by. You say Lagos Delta Caduna and two others pay pension and seventy airlines filled in Nigeria. Three may collapse soon. The A. O. N. is quoted on that. And just then a kitty governorship candidate signed peace pact to cod and N. S. D. C. deploys nine thousand seven hundred and forty seven pass now inflation surges again and hit seventeen point seventy one percent amid the rising price expert call for action as monkeypox spreads to fifteen states.  You have Senate demands raid on killer's hideout. River's woman sells sister baby four six hundred thousand. That's what please are a suspect. Extend voter registration deadline reps urges INEC. These are the headlines this morning on some of the front pages of a national dailies. Is it going to I took us as with us this morning and it's good to have you join us once again. Thanks for having me. All right is it going to lessen off with the daily independent. The federal government. As you committee may perfect your fresh agreement soon. Now on the other back you also have the federal government says that the strike is more complicated than initially and dissipated. Some of these headlines have reported this but your thoughts on this as you and the federal government's you know issues and disagreement. We're looking at seven hundred and fourteen days right there. Do you think that this is rocket science. Is it impossible you know to get to some form of agreement and settle this issue once and for all. No it's not rocket science at all. There are two issues involved. One is insincerity and the second one is lack of commitment to good governance and those two put together have kept not just us not just the university system but Nigeria where we are today. You know a lot of times we forget that the universities are research institutions where they have facts and data because research boils down to facts and data and statistics on a lot of issues information and things in this country. They know about the monies that come into the country. They know about how these monies are spent. They understand the lack of sincerity or purpose on the side of government and they're like we are no less important than you are. Every time we have to shift for you and this time it's come to a point where we can't take it anymore. I happen to be directly involved in it in the sense that my elder sister is a professor and I know what they are going through and we sit down we talk and they are willing to be understanding to the extent that government is willing to be sincere but so long as government remains insincerity it's a game of two can play and unfortunately the losers on the long run are the young people so I think that government should stop playing the ostrich. What makes it complicated? It's very simple put all the cards on the table let this man understand your financial situation and also listen to him when he tells you you are spending money here that is unnecessary it can be cut and put here you're not prioritizing us. You can get money for your for defense and all all sorts of insecurity that is a lot of times considered to be contrived and money is going there but where you need to have what will be able to build this country and give us a better nation tomorrow you don't just care about it education is not a priority to you so these are the things that are not on the table it's like everybody knows what the other pair which is typical of what playing the ostrich is all about it's not rocket science it's not very difficult it's just that there is a high level of insincerity on the part of government and lack of commitment to good governance and the fundamentals of you know developing a country. All right Jessica we also have consent on the daily independent newspaper talks about three airlines facing the possibility of a collapse as aviation fuel hits 714 Naira per litre you also have an association saying there's a likelihood that you know in two weeks time diesel might just be going for a thousand five hundred Naira again this is no rocket science what is the problem we have the crude and we send it out the diesel comes from the crude the aviation fuel comes from there for seven years the same problem has persisted are we not thinking about the solution that is sustainable now is anything coming as a shock or a surprise to us the answer is no secondly when you talk of a business that business is either social service or it is a commercial enterprise that you undertake for your profit the business of government is to set the enabling environment for businessmen to thrive and based on that influx the economy aside from that provide employment very fine government that don't understand this dynamics and fundamentals in running government and governance because of strategic importance a lot of times government needs to be able to intervene for social services now flying should buy rights be something that is either an emergency or a luxury i for one i live in a quiet bomb state i do a lot of business in delta state i have no business flying to delta state because within how many hours three i should be in delta state from a quiet bomb three hours but i can do that every time i have to go to delta state i fly from uyo to legos abuja and then i fly to asaba from either legos abuja can you imagine that because of two reasons one the roads are not good two the roads are not safe in the past seven years are we not aware of these two problems the nature of the roads and the safety on the roads today we are sitting and talking about apcpdp running made presidency are those the issues are we not listening to who will give us a sound bite of what governance is all about i think we'll get to that point by the concept of aviation fuel there should be what you may call cost reflective pricing anybody wants to fly should look at the cost and we can't we subsidize a fuel for for diesel we subsidize petrol we now subsidize aviation fuel we subsidize napa or power holding and yet we have no money we are a fake country and we need to stop do the things we can do this a giant of africa we're trying to live up to our image when we do not have the resources the competencies the capacities we do not put square pegs in square holes round pegs in round holes so that we can have a country that works we're playing politics i think the time has come when we should stop and have a total reset and ask ourselves what do we want and this is our time and the media should help us to concentrate on leadership recruitment for the next dispensation and not talk about party look at all the headlines who is going to be the running mate who is going running mate of who of the most competent of the biggest can you imagine we are talking of running a country look at our sister and gosy okonjoy weala when wto wanted to recruit a ceo look at the the processes that went rigorous rigorous processes rigorous processes and is wto bigger more important than the biggest black nation in the world i think the time has come when we need to really stop and think so all these problems that are coming up whether the airlines will collapse or not you want to do business you've got to understand that you are going to work on the fundamentals of the business you do all your pricings and plot different i took i mean is it that we're leaving out the path that we probably wouldn't be having this conversation we understand that right now it probably might just be a global concern in terms of you know the the cost of diesel or petrol however you want to put it because even in the united kingdom prices have actually gone up but of course other people would say the infrastructure or the basic things of life makes it a little bit easy for you know people to go about their businesses without necessarily feeling the impact because they have a good transport system but are we also leaving out the fact that if we we had we really should not have any business you know exporting our products and importing it back i think that you are really repeating where i started from so two of us are effectively on the same page i started with the fact that we have no business getting the crude sending it out and importing it you know back seven years down the line please tell me one concrete um and you know this has been a problem over the past 20 years as we are talking which of the parties which of the presidential candidate is giving us a sound bite on how to address this problem this is where our attention should be whether it is muslim muslim ticket whether the PDP is from the north and APC is from the south this should not be the conversation today the conversation should be Mr Dumebika Chiku yes you are in A.D.C. yes we've not heard from you but please tell us what are your programs and what are your projects all the different presidential candidates there's so much you know um fanfare about Mr Peter Obi amazing what are you putting on the table let us throw away parties and look at 18 human beings 18 and start to profile them and zero them down you know based on what we are doing zero them down to the people that are giving us a sound bite on the basic and fundamental problems of this country well i think that you and i are on the same page why are we importing this which is why we are having the problems and number two yes god you wanted to say something all right and on the leadership newspaper you have the yobai senatorial ticket and uh you know it seemed like there might just be an electoral issue or consent right there and he says why i won't step down for lawan akbat lawan basher machiner is quoted on that in the sense that he's saying that he he contested this election i mean unopposed however it was lawan it was lawan himself a senate president that gave us an electoral act that electoral act is very clear on processes of becoming candidates one you go through the primaries and you are elected once you are elected you cannot be substituted you cannot except on two grounds ground number one that the person dies ground number two that the person willingly withdraws without these two grounds you cannot the party cannot unilaterally like they used to do before substitute somebody that was brought about by mr lawan himself now he wanted to be president and he didn't fly and he now says you know there's a story let me just quickly tell you the story of a dog that had a bone in his mouth and went to the river and saw a reflection of another bone the bone was dancing it looked bigger and all that so he threw away the small bone and dived into the river to pick the bigger bone and he spent all this time and when he was tired he said rubbish bone go and sit down let me go back to my bone by the time he went back to pick the old bone one good dog had already come and carried the bone and gone away so he lost because of the greed of picking a big bigger bone instead of being contented with the bone he had in his mouth i think that that tells my position and disposition mr lawan she does go and rest if you cannot be president or vice president if you know that there are the three cities of life the chances that come your way the choices that you make and the consequences of the choices that you make the chances the choices the consequences he had a chance he made a choice and he must live with the consequence 23 years after one would be asking i mean what exactly you know you should probably take the back seat but of course electoral acts electoral acts you have reps debate motion to override boharis veto veto on section 84 subsection eight that's what you find that's on the you have that on the daily independent and on the leadership newspaper it also talks about it as well it talks about you know that pat of the constitution reps move to override president mohammed bohari on electoral act amendment do you think that this you know this the members of the house of representative have what he takes so do you see you know the wheel and the strength to push through with this motion to the very first thing is i don't know why they should waste their energy on that for a simple reason that the processes have already gone that's going to be for the next set of elections and all things like that and actually that the president failing or refusing to sign that i think i think it will eventually come back to be it's eight o'clock passed again for two reasons one is unless we go back to direct primaries which is someday i'm going to take up with inek as a life ambition for them to set templates for direct primaries that is what is going to stop all this you know a lot of times the reps people what is interesting to them is that they want to be delegates so that they can go and make the money that people are making they were so upset that they didn't they were not delegates and the money that was being shared they were not part of it so i don't think that they will actually override mr president for two reasons one is that their self-preservation is always paramount and they are not sure if they will come back and as a result you know those that are coming back may want to fight for it those who are not coming back may just look at it and say let it fly let it go rather so i really don't see anything whether they override or they don't override is one issue that really does not catch or sustain my attention now that's quickly as we begin to you know um uh co-set down on the punch newspaper i mean there's several interesting headlines and we're hoping that we have your perspective and thoughts on this one it talks about you know the pension years and you're having pencom saying that only legas delta and kaduna including two other states pay pension is it going to i took what do you make of this number one i think it um the maybe i don't know whether it's from the headlines or from pencom they are being mischievous if you've listed three you could as well as the five states that's the way i look at it because now once you learn two other states it's just like you go for election pray that you don't have one vote have zero the moment you have one vote everybody's like i was the one that voted that one vote for you so you are better of having zero and nobody talks to you and because one of my friends was telling me that he had about 39 votes but the text messages he has had is over 300 honorable you know i supported you know i voted for you and he had 39 votes meanwhile he has over 300 so when you say legas delta and kaduna and two others every governor is going to say i'm one of the two others so they should have just listed the two other states i understand i understand the argument of two others but i'm sure that beyond the headlines if you if you go through it it probably might just be mentioned at the end of the day but let's talk about the fact that we have 36 states including the fct and we're talking about just five states at this point not necessarily being very i mean so what what happens to the 31st if i'm not mistaken it's one of the things that i've taken up with these people all all along and that is that you walk they don't prioritize the retirement of of people who have worked all their life because the pension scheme is a management scheme for retirees that's why it's pension you know and all your life you have worked understanding that at exit this is the strategy for you but now governments they constantly deduct all these monies from the workers to the best of my knowledge so i think that nlc should really sit on every state government and be part of the remittances and be part of the management of of of pain come and and them you know the remittances basically and then be able to secure because one day they are going to fall into that trap themselves i think it's you know unacceptable by any standard or stretch of imagination if you say that your state is not part of it make it clear to the people that your state is not part of it and maybe have your local right but if it is by law then we should be a law abiding country and i so far i've not um apart from the time of minor i've not had on a general basis of um general abuse of the pain in pain come you know funds and things like that in Nigeria to the best of my knowledge so i think that governors should be held and made to account for for the deductions that we're making by the workers okay interesting let's see how all of this unfolds as we proceed but it's just a very very uh saddening i mean it is saddening one would only imagine what um these these persons who have actually worked uh and they're deserved as it's their right it's the entitled to it and you you have them being deprived if this reporters anything to go go by it's it's it's quite saddening and it's inhuman it's it's almost on i mean one would say it's not very fair but we're hoping that the right of authorities would uh you know look into this and come up with a solution is it going to there are too many issues right here from the issues of you know past supply it feels like we'll just have to grapple with whatever to go through now the president okay is the tcn to unbondling of a neck and orders 5000 megawatts delivery in i mean we're talking about july the first right now 5000 megawatts to be delivered we're looking at over 200 million Nigerians what difference does that really make and why should we be grappling with you know 2000 megawatts 3000 as the giant of our you know there there are there are conversations that the media should look into for instance uh i i'm in a gc um in fact as we speak i'm actually at the airport on my way to a kitty to campaign for a candidate you know a gc candidate but i would say this as an analyst some days back we saw uh peter will be you know boarding to go to i think it's egypt to find out how what they did now that's the sort of thing that we should put pressure on every single person who wants to be president for instance the the presidential candidate of a gc yesterday mr kachiku it was a major team set up because of the large networks across the world on power now he's going to be able to tell Nigerians what he's going to do this are the sort of sound bites we want to hear don't i don't want to hear all this or maybe the next we'll bring another five megawatts and things like that in a country when you know what is going on in other countries it's not rocket science so we need to start to put pressure on everybody that wants to be the president everybody all this is your big part this small party has to come to an end but but is it going to i took i'm sorry because we have to go in no time the question now would be is it that we don't understand what the challenge is uh you know what we're faced with we understand what the challenge is don't we understand the troubles with the past sector in nigeria do we need to go under study all the countries to understand what is going on in our past sector you don't go to understand what is going on i heard that your hairdresser makes your hair really fine so i come to you and say please who is your hairdresser because i want my own to be as good so if you are not going to understand we're going to see the solution and these solutions are generic they are not location-specific power generation is global if israel could solve theirs if egypt could solve theirs if south africa could solve theirs how did they do it bring the people in solve ours and we move on you don't need to reinvent the wheel that's what it is we understand exactly what's going on in our past sector it's just that like you mentioned in the course of this conversation you talked about sincerity it probably feels like it's an ingredient that we really lack and that's also hampering on other sectors of our economy but that's that's the much we can take this morning thank you so much for your perspective this morning on the headlines we look forward to sharing more of your thoughts as we proceed in the course of our shows on the breakfast thank you once again is it konyaita thank you god bless you it's been wonderful thank you all right then that's the size of our conversation this morning we always come through with the papers looking at the front pages and bringing your great insight analysis with a great analyst right here we will return tomorrow in the meantime let's take a break and tell you what happened today in history stay with us