Hey guys, this is Nate, AKA The Foot Account. Welcome back to the channel. Day one of road to the knockout was crazy and the market was all over the place. These brand new cards are really hype and a lot of people are using them, but the market's getting to a very interesting place where it almost feels like we may have hit the peak in these past couple of days and now prices are really just starting to go down. So I wanna take a look at that in the video today because the market yesterday did react a little bit like we thought it was going to, but now heading into today on Saturday it looks a lot different than I thought. It was going to be a lot of player prices are not holding the rises that we saw after content yesterday. They're starting to drop off even more and with of course compensation still looming could we get that compensation today which could even supply a little bit more cards on the market in terms of the promo cards and the goals that are impacts. Could that even hurt the market more today and especially with some of the content that could potentially be upcoming as well, things might not be looking for the market. So we're gonna take a look at a lot of stuff especially seeing now how the market is reacting to this road to the knockout promo. So if you're excited for it, hit the thumbs up, subscribe if you're new. We're gonna start looking at some graphs and looking at some prices because as I'm recording this video right now it's a little bit later than usual. As I'm recording this video right now, a lot of the road to knockout cards got really low a couple hours ago like about an hour or two ago and they started to rebound back up, right? Lionel Messi, 1.7 million coins. Yesterday of course comes into packs at 1.6, gets rare to 1.9 as people go out and play weakening squads, drops all the way down back to 1.4. 1.4 lows and he just kind of rebounded back up off of rarity to 1.7 where he is now. I actually picked up in a bombing and a Foden and a couple old Terriers like 13K in this dip. I know some of you guys were probably trading with these as well. It's one of my favorite ways to trade with cards on Friday nights with brand new promo cards heading into Saturdays. They usually do decently well, right? And these cards I think are very, very hyped and that's why we saw them move a lot yesterday, right? Philip Foden went from 400K in the first hour all the way to 500K, went all the way back down to where he was at 400 where I picked one up and went back to 450 and again as we head into today on Saturday I think people will be getting on a weekend league playing with these some of these cards and you will see a few cards rise up from this promo team specifically this morning on Saturday and into today a little bit. Now that's probably the most active and lively part of the market if I'm being completely honest. There's been a couple other cards that have moved around as well but overall for this road to the knockout team it looks I think solid. I think a lot of these cards are pretty decent. I mean a bombing of course is just a massive upgrade and if you take a look at some of the other cards they put out like Thomas Muller with a very nice upgrade on his card as well. So Gigi's the EA for the cards that are put in this team that we maybe wouldn't necessarily use before like the Thomas Muller, like the Suley, nice pace boost on him. Goosun's objective card's really good as well but yesterday's content was mostly based around the cards and packs and that Goosun's card, right? The SBC for Kudusevsky just a little bit overpriced and I think especially after we had an insane sterling SBC on Thursday that SBC is what people would do instead of Kudusevsky and especially since that sterling could upgrade as soon as like a week and a half from now or even this next week if you were getting informed from their game this weekend, that card I think and we're gonna talk about that a little bit more. I think that sterling SBC is like a really, really big dub and so many people are doing it but yesterday's road to the knockout content was solid. Great cards and packs, the SBC again a little bit expensive but the Goosun's objective for only six gains and you can play a left back, left wing back and left mid that card of course even without any upgrades looks pretty decent in a serious squad at the moment. Now let's talk about the market because a lot of things yesterday kind of went according to planned until later in the Friday night into today on Saturday timeframe. Guys like Kushana Ronaldo, right? We of course saw a lot of panic selling on the early Friday morning hours as people were scared and just anticipating the brand new promo and getting psyched for it, right? And of course, as you saw with a lot of these cards, we saw some panic selling. Using our Ronaldo example here, he's 475,000 coins at the moment. On Friday, he started at like 500K. Panic sold all the way down to about 450. He was 450 right before the content drop. We saw a massive buyback. He went all the way back up to 500,000 coins. He might have even been like 520 for a quick bit but then after that, stuff just kind of started to settle again and what I was expecting and I think what a lot of us were expecting to see was these high tier meta gold cards that people are still getting coins for and upgrading in their teams too. And of course, we expected more coins to come onto the market yesterday through weakening rewards, through people opening packs in the store. So I expected the market to kind of rebound and stay a little bit higher than what it was. Kind of like what happened last week after the ones to watch, right? Well, kind of the opposite has happened. Take a look at Ronaldo. He's gone from 500K all the way back down to 457 where he was. We had some really, really low late night prices. Now, cards have kind of bounced up a little bit from where that panic selling has kind of gone. But I mean, just take a look at a lot of these prices. Benzema 91 is 99,000 coins. And this guy was 130K. Panic sold to 114, bounced back a little bit and over the nighttime has really dropped off a lot. It just really feels like this, we may have hit the peak, right? We may have hit the peak point of the market and now we're just gonna be in that time where the gold cards start to slide off. Like we talked about a couple of videos ago, the market always crashes in October. Usually it's during like the middle of the month, you know, a couple of weeks in. Right now it's what, the 8th of October, so we're not super far into the month yet. But like looking at these prices, especially on your gold cards on the lower tier, and we have been talking about this for a while, but the lower tier gold cards got wrecked yesterday. I mean, St. Maxman was still 35,000 coins on Wednesday, literally three days ago. He has now halved that price at 16K, right? The lower tier cards, look at Gabrielae Zeus, Chalmini, these guys that are back in packs after being out of packs from ones to watch, they get absolutely destroyed. That's why we were trying to sell those guys and we were talking about selling them earlier on in the week, but it's not even those low tier guys. I mean, take a look at like, you know, 91 Benzema that we looked at, right? For Jota, it's 43,000 coins after being 68K on Wednesday. I really just think that the supply is starting to take over for a lot of these gold cards, but I also think that people are doing more SBCs. Think about the SBCs that we have had recently. Here's where I'm gonna talk about that Stirling SBC again. I think that so many people actually did the Stirling SBC because fodder went down yesterday after content. Maybe then people went out and did the Thiago Silva SBC as well or the Valverde player of the month. You know, I think people's coins have been drained a little bit and the supply is starting to catch up and coins are being drained. Wow, and we have a dynamic image now for the Stirling GGs. You know, I think that's what's kind of, that's what's happening at the moment a little bit is people are starting to do a few more SBCs and the supply is just starting to catch up. And especially with these brand new promo cards that are coming out, this is another aspect of it too. People were going and selling their Ronaldo yesterday were their Erling Holland gold card. Take a look at Erling's gold, man. This guy was like 340,000 coins multiple times yesterday, rebounded back up to like 383.90 multiple times. And right now he's back again in kind of a low 350, 360 range, potentially rising back up a little bit into today on Saturday. But I think a lot of the reason why, you know, these gold cards are down too and a lot of the market is down is because we have these roads to the knockouts that are brand new items. And let's be honest, they're really not that expensive, right? I know that I bought a Bomb Yang to try to flip and trade with, but let's say you had Ronaldo, you know, you buy a Bomb Yang card, he's literally 100,000 coins more than what Ronaldo is right now. And Ronaldo was 500 and like, you know, 50,000 coins just a couple of days ago before he really started to drop off. So I think people sold cards during these last couple of days, they had some coins ready to try out new stuff this weekend and they're trying out these brand new promo cards as well. So, you know, and when people change teams and this is something that doesn't get talked about a lot, but it's really, really a big aspect of how the market is impacted every single weekend on Vipa, when people change up their teams and especially when a promo team like this comes out with a lot of really good players in it, that again, realistically aren't that expensive, even though the pack weight on these cards is not that crazy, right? It's like 1% from a 45K pack. We can take a look at that in a second. You know, people go out and they change their teams and every time they're buying and selling players and switching things out, they're losing coins if you think about it, right? Because that 5% EA tax, a lot of times people are actually losing coins like just because the price of the player drops as well. So that's kind of what I'm thinking is what's causing this market drop off to happen right now. And just the fact that, you know, the gold card market didn't rebound and even the high tier meta cards didn't rebound that well yesterday, that really scares me for how the next couple of weeks could be going on this game. Also, to add insult to injury, I guess you could say, we have some pretty crazy packs that have been added to the code. Now this does not mean that these packs could be like today or tomorrow or, you know, even this next week, but a foot heroes pack, a base icon pack, and a couple of others. An 84 plus rare gold, an 81 plus double, you know, there's a team of the week player pack that is included in here as well. These have all been added to the code. And what I really think this is, is this brings some of the first, you know, potential panic or potential opportunity for some of the biggest upgrade SBCs, coin sync gamble SBCs that we have had this year. Now again, I don't know when these SBCs are gonna be dropping. This team of the week player SBC, Footshare, I've actually just tweeted a couple minutes ago saying the team of the week upgrade should come next week, right? So right now today, Saturday, I'm guessing that that assumes that the team of the upgrade would be somewhere between like, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I think that's what next week means. We'll have to see. That's a really interesting leak that he has any sort of information around that. But if they're gonna give out a team of the week upgrade SBC, we haven't had a single SBC that's required team of the weeks thus far. What that makes me think is, are they going to drop a hero upgrade or a base icon upgrade that would maybe require those team of the week cards? Again, I don't know. Or are they just dropping a team of the week SBC to try to get us to go and do that upgrade SBC and so that we maybe don't, you know, they're trying to control the rise of the inform cards or like the discard informs, if you will, on the market by putting this out early on in the game. Again, that's a question that we don't know the answer to. Of course, we still have like the Road to the Knockouts Foundations pack and the Essentials pack in here as well. Also, yesterday kind of really interesting, we had a new card design leak. This is the Player Moments SBC design. And usually when they update a new card design, think about it, we saw like that dynamic duo that was dropped, you know, a couple of days after they added a new design. So it really seems like with this Road to the Knockouts promo as well, they're gonna start turning up the content, right? With those card designs, with those pack codes that have been added. And again, what really is gonna make the market continue to drop is continued supply from packs in the store, from SBCs. And of course, if there's good content and good SBCs that are dropped, that's gonna make prices on this game drop as well as people are turning towards those cards instead of maybe buying something off the market. And you know, the rise that we had seen in the early part of the game this far, the first two weeks, it really had to end at some point.   I don't think that's gonna be the case. I just think that you might see these cards be, the prices be a little bit stagnant today unless there's a huge leak.  Still think it'd be a bit earlier for that. But, you know, I just think that if you're holding a card that you're playing with for a week in league, just be a little bit careful with that. And now we're getting into that time of the year where I think people are also not gonna want to hold cards for that long, just because they know the potential that these cards will have to drop like every single day. And I think that's what even, that's just something that we see pretty commonly throughout the weekends and the weekend leagues throughout the year. But we haven't seen yet, because Weekend Link hadn't started yet, is that a lot of times you see these late night drops where people sell off cards because they just don't want to hold their cards overnight and they fear that those are dropping. So yeah, the market right now just, you know, it feels like we hit the peak on Wednesday. And now prices are just kind of starting to trickle downwards. And, you know, I wouldn't call it panic or it's not, it is a little bit of a crash, but I still think you'll see some player prices bounce back further today as well, even as we head into next week on Monday, because I'm not expecting any crazy content today on Saturday or tomorrow on Sunday. I still think you'll see a few player prices rise up, but it's just crazy how I thought the market, and I think a lot of people thought the same way that the market was gonna at least rebound back up a little bit closer to where we were price-wise in the week last week. Like, yeah, Usman Dembele was 100 and he went down to like 90 or, you know, in the 90s, but I was expecting to go back up to maybe like 95 or something like that. Raphael Layout Enform was like 78,000 coins just a couple hours ago before I, you know, started recording this video, and now he's kind of bounced back up. I think a lot of people are waking up right now, Saturday morning, getting some champs games in. It's like 7 a.m. UK time right now. The video's late when I'm recording this. Actually, it might be 8 a.m. No, it's 7 a.m. just kidding. Five-hour difference.  That's why you're seeing a few of these cards bouncing. So, if you have a card that you bought during the late night hours that has gone up, I think it might be a decent time to cash. I'm looking to get this Phil Fodenau at like 450. If possible, it keeps like getting undercut here at like 440. I think I'll be able to get a sale at 450, I think, but I bought an Obamiang as well at, you know, 579, I think is what it was. And I flipped this guy from 600K, 700K to like 770 yesterday. But he's just kind of, he's rare, but also, you know, one thing you have to be really careful is, you know, we'll talk about this in promos in the future too when you're trading with these cards overnight. You gotta be careful with people because, of course, people try to trade with these, but they list really stupidly overnight. There was a guy that listed all four of these Obamiangs that he bought. One, two, three, four. Four Obamiangs listed at 619,000 coins all overnight. I mean, this guy wouldn't have got these for any less than like 560K because that was the low that Obamiang went to. I mean, that's really just not smart at all to be listing those cards overnight like that. If I'm listing a card overnight, it's like, I'm listing, even if I have multiple of them, I'm gonna list one or two of them and I'm gonna list them at different prices because I'm not expecting at all. Wow, this is a center attacking me positions too. Yeah, this is a sell for 450. So I don't wanna flood the market with listings and maybe potentially inhibit that card from rising further. That's just a little bit of a tip if you're gonna list cards overnight.  I mean, I'm technically right now like, almost breaking even if he would go to like 630, 640K. He's still a pretty rare card and one of the biggest upgrades that is out there and people might wanna try him today. So I think he could rebound back up a little bit. But really quick towards the end of this video, I just wanna also talk about SBC fodder and the Road to Knockout cards for a second. Since we got this stuff leaked, we had that player moments design that is out. Fodder is down bad. And for you guys that really like investing in SBC fodder, I think that there are areas of the market with the market turning this way, right? With the player prices starting to drop down, people are getting more and more coins. If EA were to release an SBC like a team a week upgrade foot heroes or base icon pack, you know, fodder would absolutely benefit from those coming out. I think it is an absolute beauty of a time to start thinking about club stocking. I know the whole unassigned situation this year, some people say yes, some people say no, you can go and assign. I've seen both, I don't know. Haven't tried it myself, haven't figured that out. But at least a club stock and that's what I wanna be better at this year. I wanna be a lot more consistent at is club stocking in forms, club stocking fodder cards when I think they have a potential to rise. Right now there is a huge discrepancy in price between the 84s and the 85s. I mean, 5.9K for 85s, 1112K for 86s, but only 1.6K for 84s. I know that the SBCs have not been requiring a lot of chemistry, which is, you know, I guess maybe inhibiting the rise a little bit on some of these 84s as well. We used to think about good leagues, good nations, but you know, you can't go wrong with like an 84 rated Hummel's center back card at like 1.6K. These guys were 2.3K on Wednesday, and if the content is gonna start to ramp up is if EA's gonna try to drain some coins, you can see this card's already back up to 1.9. I think it's a great opportunity to club stock some of these 84s. I would say even the 85s and 86s, right? You take a look at Serge Nabri, who's 6,000 coins. I mean, he was 10K. That's more of like a actually being usable in game. Let's look at a guy like Patrick Schick, who's been fodder since the start. This guy was 7,000 coins on Wednesday. He's now 5.8. So I think it's a great time to club stock some fodder even on the higher rated stuff too. These guys were incredible to get on bid during the lightning rounds, or not the lightning rounds, during like the Probo Pack supply yesterday, but Modric, 22,000 coins, Tony Cruz, 22,000 coins. These guys were of course more than that being fodder cards as the Falverde and other SBCs came out in the past couple of days. So I think fodder is a really, really good stock on all levels, to be completely honest, because if EA's gonna do some sort of icon upgrade SBC or something like that, they're probably gonna have some of those higher rated squad requirements in there as well, but specifically for a team of weak upgrade, which is the most likely, I think, some of those lower tier ones should do really good. Now lastly, we don't even need a foot bin or somebody on Twitter to make a tracker for these Road to the Knockout cards, and just to explain these really quick here at the end of the video, these cards are, I mean, shoot, EA's tracking it for us, and they're telling us how they're gonna get upgraded. So a Road to the Knockout item will receive a wins upgrade. It's basically the same criteria to upgrade as last year. They will get a plus one upgrade or an inform upgrade if their club wins two games out of the remaining three group stage match days. So of course, EA is even showing us here who they play, right? PSG plays Benfica, I forget that team's name, and then UVay. If they win against these first two teams and lose the UVay, and maybe they're kind of tanking and then done, and they know that they've won the group, then boom, right? They're in, and they qualify, and they won two games, so Messi would get a plus two, he'd go to a 94, he'd get both upgrades. So again, you get one upgrade for qualifying to the Knockout stage, and one upgrade for winning two out of the last three games, which again, this is gonna happen so, so, so fast because a lot of these games are approaching rapidly, and the best part about this is, EA, this is something that I was hoping to see forever in the last couple of years of road to the final. I've been saying this for the last two years. EA needs to tell us when they're gonna upgrade these cards, and they have said here, the next upgrades go live in-game from October 21st, which does seem like a little bit of time, but it is what it is, at least they're telling us what the dates are from when they're gonna upgrade these cards. So October 21st is when the first upgrades will get locked in. I mean, technically, I think, the only ones that would be on the verge of getting upgraded already would be a club that has won all three games and would this week, you know, clinch a fourth win in the group stage, which is basically like the guarantee of, you know, advancing to the next round. Of course, it depends on the group, but I think if you win four games in the group stages, you're in. So City, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, you gotta look at those guys, Vavarde, Foden, Messi, and Muller, because they might be kind of locking in their upgrades this next week during matchday number four of UCL. So that's kind of interesting to see on here. The mini-release on Sunday is going to contain, I believe, four cards.  Okay, so the cards were actually on the tracker earlier. It was Bremer, man, I forget all the guys that are on here now. There was a few of them that were shown on here that EA is gonna release in the mini-release on Sunday. Bremer's probably the biggest name that's gonna be released that we saw on there. I can't remember those guys right now. We'll talk about that, of course, more heading into tomorrow and Sunday, but it is nice to see that EA's got a nice little tracker set up here for us on how they're gonna do that stuff. And I mean, let's be honest, yesterday's content was not terrible. They also released, and I don't wanna gloss over this, I didn't really look at it yesterday on stream, but they released an SBC that actually gives you a position change modifier. You can do it five times and it's one bronze player. Absolutely incredible, EA Sports. Big GG's to you guys there. That's a big time GG there. So, just really quick last second as well to go back to the market side of things. What could we see today as I'm gonna open a couple of packs here really fast, because I have some in the store for the video to end it off. What could we see today on Saturday market-wise? I think you might see a little bit of panic selling heading into the content drop as people just expect something today on Saturday. They saw a lot of movement yesterday on the market. I think you could see a few cards get panicked sold off today, especially if it's a rare card, like a photo and if it's a bombing. I would watch those guys' prices because they might be able to fluctuate later on today on Saturday with that. And watch out for the leaks. I'm not expecting anything crazy today by any means in terms of content that EA could release, like maybe a player moments SBC. The weekends are when we usually do see some decent SBC player content and then during the weeks it slows down. That happened during the ones to watch promo. So again, question mark for sure for today on how it's going to be going down and stuff, but we are going to have to keep an eye on that for today on Saturday. We have a couple more packs to open. Yesterday was actually pretty good for me pack-luck-wise. I saved like seven or nine packs or something like that. And I hit Inform, Sorloth, I hit Alfonso Davies. These are my qualifier rewards. I qualified for Weekend League. I'm going to have to get those games in later. And I hit Dembalia as well. So a couple of those guys go straight into the team. I'll take this fodder because I am going to do Kulusevsky. And I think I might have to do Raheem Sterling as well because I think everybody is doing that SBC right now in this game. Just the way that left wings look like left wing sons like a hundred K. It's crazy as I continue to get boards here. Jordy Alba, that's sick. I actually have a tradable one in my team right now that I paid 10 K for. I got a Hunter and a Shadow in this pack. Oh, this pack is tradable. Oh my goodness. Okay, I'm going to put that on the transfer list. We will take that. And last one, last pack of the video. Champions qualifiers rewards paying out with another set of boards, another Spanish board. It's going to be a fodder card de Tomas. So can't complain too much there. But the pack look yesterday seemed to be pretty solid and I can't complain about that. Hopefully we have a good weekend today. Good Weekend League games. If you guys are grounded on Weekend League, best wishes. If you guys are trading and made coins yesterday, we made a lot of coins from flipping those high tier rare cards. And if you see Panic today, that was the last thing I was going to say about today's market on Saturday. If you see high tier cards that are rare, get low from panic selling. You're going to have great opportunities to flip some of these guys. And their prices, if there is Panic today, you will have great opportunities to make coins on those. So watch out for these new road to the knockouts. They are exciting. They're very popular. Their card prices are going to move as they already have been. So if you enjoyed the video today, smash a thumbs up on it. Comment down below if you have any questions and subscribe if you're new. It's been Nate the Foot Account and I'll catch you guys later. Peace.


Hello and welcome to My Career in Data, a podcast where we would discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp and today we're talking to Toby Hall and Curtis Mischler from Roosevelt Innovations. More and more companies are considering investing in data literacy education, but still have questions about its value, purpose, and how to get the ball rolling. Introducing the newest monthly webinar series from DataVercity, Elevating Enterprise Data Literacy, where we discuss the landscape of data literacy and answer your burning questions. Learn more about this new series and register for free at DataVercity.net. Hello and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp and I'm the Chief Digital Officer at DataVercity and this is My Career in Data, a DataVercity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to be talking with people who help make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education, go to DataVercity.net forward slash subscribe. Today we are joined by Toby Hall, President and CEO and Curtis Mischler VP Chief Data Officer and Chief of Staff at Roosevelt Innovations. And normally this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guest but in this podcast, your bio is what we're here to talk about. Toby and Curtis, hello and welcome. Thanks Shannon. Thanks for having me here. I'm so excited to have you guys here. Thank you so much for doing this. I met you to initially when you did the 2022 keynote for Enterprise Data Governance Online Conference. And then again in person at our most recent data governance and information quality conference in San Diego. Recently you gave the keynote there in person and that was fabulous. I have to tell you I told you in writing and I don't say this to everybody. You guys, it's one of my favorite talks. You guys had a laughing right from the beginning. You guys really gel so well together is really consumable content that you present it's really just you guys give a great presentation. Data Governance is a hilarious topic so I'm not surprised.  Well, how long to have you two been working together. Well, Curtis. Yeah, about that. Yeah. Nice. Have you always dealt like that or did it take work. Well, I think that actually is a really good question. I know not right out of the gate but I think a lot of that comes from dealing with and solving issues together over time. I don't want to say it's quite the foxhole mentality but there's a little bit of that. Yeah, there's definitely some of that. Yeah, you go through some of the things we've gone through and you just kind of bond through the experience and we have similar sense of the humor which which helps to help. And I love that you use again you've used humor in your presentations is just so great. So, so let's start at the foundation here so tell me about Roosevelt innovations what's the company about what is it that the company does. Yeah, that one.  The mother ship Delta dental has always run the business of dental insurance business with a homegrown platform from an IT perspective they wrote the whole thing themselves back in 2008 we went live initially. And that includes claims eligibility billing the whole stack for what an insurance company would mean. And that platform attribute a bit over time they we accumulated a little bit of tech debt wasn't as robust as it should be some IT resources have been diverted to do other things for a number of years. And in about 2016, our board of directors decided it was time to either buy a new platform or rebuild from scratch. And we decided to go into and and rehab our existing platform, build some new modules from scratch, maybe even buy an ingress and a few pieces. The goal was over a multi year period, we would come out the other end with a brand new platform. Great ambitious endeavor. Our CEO at the time realized this should not be run solely out of it. Our IT friends are great they work their butts off and we love them dearly, but probably a little ambitious and too big and sweeping for to be confined to it. She asked if anyone would be willing to delete a project and I dare to make eye contact with the beast. During that meeting, I wish I had duct at the time. So I ended up getting tagged to lead that project and did that for a number of years. Apparently it went it went in a favorable direction and our board of directors spun us off as a separate company to market our IT platform to other dental payers. I joke with our CEO our current CEO saying you should be on about your third version of me by now. That's a platform projects of that size, typically the project sponsor exits somewhere along the way. You end up cycling through a few of them. In fact, I'm still here. I don't know, maybe he just wasn't sleeping this way channel. That's fascinating. Oh, very interesting. So, so to me you also have the title of CEO and president.  Yeah, this is going to be the biggest cliche on earth but there is no there is no typical week they're all different. Broad buckets of activities though, depending on where we are in the calendar and what's going on, working with our board managers and the main interface upward to our board. And that could involve keeping them up to date on product roadmaps what's in the sales pipeline, getting large decisions approved. So there's those board activities and Curtis is super helpful in that as well. And it could be our go to market strategy, working with our product roadmaps dealing with vendors, or what I would argue is actually my favorite part of the whole thing is building the team and making sure we have a culture that I product. That's awesome. I love that. And Curtis, you hold several VP chief data officer, chief of staff, many hats. So what is it what is it you do. What does your week look like.  It's fantastic. I really try to do my best there to you know two or three times a day. I would say play a lot of whack-a-mole. For better for worse. Yeah, there's two big hats there the chief of staff on a lot of strategy, keeping the trains running on time so I like to put it addressing the big problems nobody else wants to touch Toby's got a great way of saying hey Curtis, what are you doing right now I got something for you. Put out fires just whatever support Toby needs kind of stuff in that role from a chief data officer perspective. There's several big data projects that are going on. We have a big archiving and purging initiative has been a way underway for years. So I'm very active in that is the cat jumps out. I know my cat just wanted to make a guest with you inside the podcast she'll be back for sure. We're working on data catalog selection reporting strategy different things like that, helping make sure we're using data appropriately across the organization was like Toby said, every week's different. There's there's no one typical. Sure makes sense. So, okay, so let's back it way up. So when you were both very young elementary school, just do it, just a young kid. What was the dream. When did you say, you know, I'm going to go work and have these many hats and this diverse work week at, you know, at Roosevelt innovations when I grow up. Definitely no. And maybe later than elementary school I'll say late middle through high school and college. I always knew I wanted to do something related to the math or physics very much a quantitative science stem kind of a mindset so that that was always the passion didn't know exactly what that would be. But I wanted to do something in the area of math and or physics. I had a dream job growing up. There was only one. There was nothing else on the list. It wasn't this. The astronaut, actually. Minor problem though, 64 is the cut off. And you can tell I'm sure for those that are listening that I'm six foot seven. You sound virtually. I sound tall. I did major aerospace engineering. I worked as a co op at Johnson Space Center for a year. Got to go on the astronaut training plane called the vomit comment spend some time mission control but in the end the last. No, that did not work out. Well, then tell me so then so from astronaut. So Curtis will start with you so where you go from there. You're basically saying I've fallen the farthest. No. Because you're six foot seven you have further to fall. I'm the first one to know it's raining. Yeah, so coming out of college, I didn't know what I wanted to do like I kind of knew the aerospace path, not ending where I ultimately wanted to be wasn't going to be satisfying for me. And I didn't really know what to do so I went to management consulting. They're going to get to see a lot of different things and try a lot of different things. I just fell in the healthcare by accident doing that fell in the healthcare data by accident within that. And along the way just started taking different roles because I thought they looked interesting or unique or different and just bounced around a lot. And somewhere along the way looking back on it I realized that the astronaut part that really interested me was the exploration pushing the boundaries going new places. And then that's actually what I was doing a lot of my career progression. And I found out that I bumped into the Delta dental Michigan organization and Toby and was able to help them as a contractor with some of their needs. And I liked it so much I decided that I just wanted to stay there. So that that's really kind of how I got to where I am right now, a little bit of a luck at the draw but mainly just kind of fall my interest along the way. I like that. And it's following your passion right that has taken so many people so many different places right. Yes.  Yeah, so I double majored in math and statistics, or as one of my friends says I double majored in dork, which is probably not terribly inaccurate. Yeah, I have done I wonder you know what do you do with a bachelor's degree in statistics and and the unfortunate answer is not much with a master's or a doctorate there's comes about opportunities, but but really not with that not as much as you might think with a bachelor's degree, not directly. So talking with an advisor, he sort of indicated if you're anything less than 100% committed to the doctorate route graduate school, you might want to think twice about as well taking your off and get your head straight. That's basically what I did. I stuck around did some research with a professor at the undergraduate institution I went to put some classes while I was there and thought well this teaching thing isn't so bad. So, post baccalaureate actually went back and got a secondary teaching endorsement, and I was high school teacher. I was taught high school for I was certified high school math and history taught math, everything from these are numbers they're your friends they won't hurt you, all the way up through calculus. I kind of everything in between pot it kind of a high school all day and taught at Community College at night. I was 23, not very bright. I thought everybody showed up for work at like seven in the morning and worked out tonight I thought that's what everybody did. I went to high school, high school all day that I go teach at the college all night, you know, roll into my apartment at 1030 and started all over again the next day I thought that's what adults did. And somewhere along the way, I wanted to do something in the summer that would, I could come back to the classroom and tell students this is why you need to learn that. And look into the actuarial profession was going to do an actual internship, fell in love with the actual profession and went whole hog. And I was doing four consulting firms as an actual consultant for a number of years. That's when I jumped over to Delta dental about 20 years ago, and worked my way out to the chief actuary at Delta dental. And for about five years there I was doing the chief actuary job and leading this project that eventually became Roosevelt and there were definitely some dark days but not recommend doing two full time jobs at once. Not a great choice of mind but but it was awesome I have never worked that hard but had that much fun and learn that much in my whole life. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. I think Toby and I may have worked for the same big for at the same time just in different parts of it and never ran into each other. Yeah, we were in the same, the same geographic practice area the two different practice lines. And I do believe we've never never knew each other at that time. I mean, lots of stories like that across my career as well, people when I work for Microsoft people ask me all the time. Hey, do you know so and so when I saw my work for Microsoft. You know they employed 30,000 just right in this city right. Do you know Bill Gates. No but I was on an email with him once. So tell me. So what has been your biggest lessons so far in your career that you know I mean Toby you're talking about working a lot of hours. A lot of it mostly for two different jobs. What's what's the biggest takeaways that you that you use today even. So I would tell you the only way that was possible to pull that off is to have people behind you that you trust have a bench of people know Curtis included on this side of the house. I had some talented actuaries that worked under me on the other side of the house, being able to delegate and focus on what's really important. The few one or two strategic things that was critical. So probably the biggest lesson I'm going to tell you career wise is, and again it's I'm going to be the cliche factory today. It's never stopped learning. And, and I mean that generically learning doesn't have to mean learning a new skill or technology or staying what's on top, what trends are going on in your industry. Those are all important, but learning can also just be doing new things, but nothing beats doing. You're trying to learn. I've learned a number of times I've, I've agreed to a project or been assigned a project with absolutely no idea how I was going to pull it off. But those have been some of those pivotal educational moments, not saying I succeeded every time, but definitely learned every single time. Yeah, and I've heard other leaders say this that that learning, no matter how you're doing learning is like the equivalent of compound interest. It's a little bit of learning today just like it's not about the dollar you invest today. It's about on top of all of the other dollars over time, what that does and learning is the same thing.  I love that advice. And I think it's so important to hear that from executives.  You keep learning right. Yeah. Yeah. So Curtis, what about you? What are you some of the biggest lessons so far in your career? So a couple, one somewhere along the way I realized that the people you work with is probably more important than the work itself. And if you don't really like the people you're around. Life's too short. Why are you doing it. And I think that really is a two way street though because you have to demonstrate that as well. Right. Like, do you want to be that person that's grumpy all the time no one wants to come ask for help or do you want to be that person that's willing to step in and do whatever needs to get done and do with a smile. You're going to go a lot further. You know, with that kind of approach. So that's been big for me and actually that's why I'm at Roosevelt, quite honestly it's because of people's because of Toby and others that we work with that. You know, I just decided this is the group I want to end my career with. So, yeah, I'm thrilled to be here. So that's one. We have a meeting with a child later. Oh, very good. Wait till I get to my third lesson. The second one is, you got to take chances at times. You know, like even took, you know, Toby's example about taking on the Roosevelt project wasn't called that at the time but that was a chance. And sometimes you got to do that and I've taken some chances in my career that paid off and taken some that haven't. I've changed the result, but I've realized that nothing's really fatal. You know, you learn from it, you grow from it.  You're not going to make the business better. You're not going to advance your career. And then the third one is, yeah, just be really careful about working with people with dog names. I'm just saying. Everybody knows a dog named Toby. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launchpad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DBTOX for 20% off your purchase. Well, you can tell me, let me cover something really quick, but you both mentioned how important culture is, people you work with. I mean, Toby, you mentioned from the beginning, you know, how important it was to build the right staff and the right culture. What is that? And what have you done to build that? And what does that mean to you? And I would tell you, I think some people overthink this, they make it too hard. And I know my team right now, my director reports, they're all plugging their ears going, he's going to say it, I know he's going to say it again because I say it all time. I think there's really four steps and it's all about the same four steps over and over again. And I don't mean to trivialize it because they're not as, but the step one is put the right people in the right roles. And that is a point in time kind of thing. The minute the pieces are on the chessboard, the other side moves, the game changes, you got to move some people around. I moved some people around just this morning. I know how it goes, but if you get the right people in the right roles, like the battle is mostly one, that's step one. Step two, make sure they have the right vision of what you're trying to accomplish and be really, really clear on what that vision is and make sure it's a compelling vision. It's not anything trivial, it's ambitious, but not demoralizing. Step number three, make sure you give them the right culture. And then if you've done that, if you've got the right people in the right role, they have the right vision, they have the right culture. Step four, stay out of their way. Let them do their job, delegate, push the decisions down. And if you're unwilling to do that, either one, your ego is the problem, which could easily be, it could be an ego thing, or you didn't do steps one through three curl. If you did them the correct way, you should be more than happy to just get out of the way and let them do their thing. They will bring you in when they need you, there's no doubt about it. But that culture piece, I think sometimes that's underestimated, and people make it into a big production, they have a big culture statement, and those things aren't bad, don't get me wrong, that's a necessary step, but that's not enough. That's not merely, you know, on the math world, we would say that's necessary, but it's not sufficient. The true culture creation is the micro level interactions you have with your team over a long period of time. It's not about putting a mural up in the lobby. It's about how you reach your team out of Monday morning consistently week after week after week that that creates culture.  There is carelessness that has to be dealt with in a different way, but it's all of those things realizing that not in a strange creepy way but in a very real way, your team is watching you and how you act makes a big difference. Early days I'm not as conscious now about it but early days I was even super careful about where I parked my car in the parking lot. Do I want to park in a reserve spot right up next to the door, or do I park out in the middle of the lot? And I'll tell you the answer is I parked out in the middle of the lot. I'd like to add just a little bit to that too, because a huge part of the Roosevelt journey and the spin off has been around culture. And I do think open communication is a huge piece of that. And I have to say Toby is probably the most open transparent executive I've ever worked with. So when it comes to communicating the team helping them understand where we're going why we're doing what we're doing. The headwinds we might be facing. He puts it all out there and I think that builds a certain level of trust that really does then help reinforce that culture that we're trying to create. That's really nice. I like that a lot. So, so important and I assume that trickle down effect resonates the now to your customers. I'm sorry. I know you're going to trickle down economics. I know. I regret it as soon as I said it but. And I'm a firm believer, especially and I have direct interactions with our customers to and I'm equally transparent with them. I'm a firm believer that you know if there's something going on if if a new software release is getting pushed back a couple of weeks me. I'll communicate that directly to the customers and is it a message they like hearing sometimes no. Now sometimes it works better with their lineup and they're actually glad. But sometimes they've been waiting for that new release and we have to push it that they're not thrilled with that, but at least they've heard the message and at least we've had a chance to talk about. And if you just let it go out in an email or let it just the day comes and goes without the release that's not going to be very nice.  The car won't. But you know a lot of the culture of course is so important to data and data management and you know from your presentation, your data governance program reflects a lot of that can you tell me a little bit about your program. Yeah, so we started the data governance program in 2016, which was right around that time that the platform re platforming initiative was kicking off. And there are a few drivers at that time one was, we knew we had a lot of data we probably didn't need to be still holding on to. So just from a retention perspective archiving for gene cetera there that was a big piece of it. And otherwise we knew we had new business coming on to the platform. And based on its size, we were going to be straining a little bit under the weight of all that extra data to want to make sure that we were looking at that the right way and understanding how we were going to handle that. But then also just the fact that hey we're going through and looking at this thing and recoding doing all this kind of work. Now be a great time if we've got some issues to try to clean them up from day one. And then some good practices from day one realizing, you know, we use the analogy we're building the plane while flying it and it feels like that pretty much every day. But we had all these different business needs that were in play. And it was complicated by the fact that at that point in time it own data, not the business. And I think that was more of a historical thing that it took it because nobody else wanted it was like a hot potato. And part of what we wanted to do culturally to is just shift that mindset as well as say hey you know data is really there for business reason. The business needs to own it. It certainly supports it has a huge responsibility around it, but at the end of the day, it's the business users who need to be using it. So I think those were some of the main reasons. No anything on that. No, I think you nailed it. That's exactly right. So, then, so tell me then putting data at the forefront of your culture, you know what is your definition definition of data, and how is it each of you work with data. Yeah, I would say data is pretty much any information that the company or organization needs to create or use during its day to day operations, and very careful to say information, because data is taken on this much broader characterization. It's not purely numeric things anymore data, for example in our world data could be the click patterns that are users use on one of our web portals, understanding what their click patterns are so that our product designers can make sure that the portals are very easy to use very intuitive. That's data click patterns that's data, an x-ray that comes in with a dental client that's data. It's on structured data, you may have to find a way to manage it and live with it. So I would say it's all of those things. And in the spirit of the cliches of the day, I think about the organization as being a giant gasoline engine, and data is the one that makes that engine run properly. Now, could you, could you drive your car with it being a court low on oil? Sure, of course you could. It just would be a very, very bad idea and it wouldn't work for very long. Same thing with the data in an organization. There's no fuel for decision anything in the modern economy is that it always comes back to what what data can we get to help us make that decision. And if the data is not trustworthy it's not available. It's not understood clearly. We're going to be making some balance. So is that part of your, what you're constantly learning, Coby? Yeah, exactly. So Curtis, what about, what about you? What's your definition of data, as such as the chief data officer, you know, and how do you use it? I echo a lot of what Toby said.  The challenge is trying to sift through that and say, well, what really matters and what doesn't? What's just noise? And what is, hey, there's a signal there trying to tell us something back to Toby's point, making it information. And information could be because, oh, this piece of data actually has relevant meaning to us, so it qualifies as information. Some cases it may be, oh, if we take this piece of data and do something with it, then it becomes information. But getting down to that to me is the real key to it.  And on one hand I could say, here it is, a big pile of data, and they were looking at it, yeah, but I don't know what this means. Like, what does that column, what does this one do? Like, how do they interact? Without that additional data on top of it, you can't get the information. It's meaningless. So I think that's a big part of what we're doing is just trying to wade through all of this. All the stuff needs to be called, get rid of the smoky layers to the point where actually that has meaning what we're looking at. And I think the challenges that come with that have been taken on a very different look and feel. When I did undergrad and then the actual real exams, a lot of the techniques and methods and thought processes that got ingrained in me were around data is difficult to get, it's expensive to store, you never have enough of it, how do you branch as much insight out of the data that you have, don't ever waste a bite of data. And that's the whole mindset of traditional statistics and I argue actually about science. Now, I look at the young men and women being trained today, their problem is 180 degrees the opposite. It's you land in the chair, you've got thousands of pounds and millions of rows and you don't even know how to make sense of it.  How do you begin to find patterns when you can't even get your arms around how massive the quantities are. You're a relatively short time span we've made that week, and trying to make sure we're putting the right data in the decision makers hands, while that characteristic is going on background that that's a unique channel. Indeed, so so let's talk about people coming into the workforce. So to both of you know, do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years, and why. Definitely, definitely increasing. And there's probably an offensive and a defensive side to this. I would say when you're when an organization is playing defense thinking about data management. It's because there's such a sensitivity and awareness for good reason around proper data hygiene data access data controls. You know at the extreme this is regulation like HIPAA and other things to consumer protection laws that that governor use and storage of data. So that sort of visit is the defensive play, or no one wants to have that Wall Street Journal story about a day. Nobody wants to be that organization. So that's definitely there and that's going only in one direction and that's inclusive. And also be offensive side to data as the data becomes more voluminous and comes at us faster and faster. And we want to make better quality decisions. This whole notion of understanding data. Where did it come from what does it mean, as Curtis eloquently said going from data to information to insight to action, being able to follow that arc. And I would argue it's a little bit different data management is a little bit different than input management of any other type. If you are managing factory raw materials, you don't necessarily have to understand all that much about how those raw materials, but if you're managing data within an organization you have to understand how that data came to be. Who's consuming the data what are they using it for if you're going to effectively managing you have to understand that suit to nuts. If you're managing parts in a manufacturing point equally important job but you don't necessarily need to know about the. And how do you, how important do you think that is for a CEO to understand. I think the CEO needs to be conversant and needs to know which questions to ask and push on things and make sure the direction the team is moving with data management is in alignment with the CEO vision for sure. Hello, then you call Curtis and say, Hey, are you busy? Sorry, you broke up there. I didn't catch that. And I love that description. It's the first time I've heard offensive and defensive and it makes so much sense. Yeah, I like that description of that. So a lot of people look at Toby and think offensive but that's most people. So Curtis, do you see the number of jobs were increasing increasing degree with degree with Toby or. I do. I mean after this call might be decreasing by one, but overall I do think it is, it is increasing. I don't have these exact numbers, you know how many petabytes of data we as a world a society are generating every day but that's exponentially growing and no end in sight like I don't know why that would change anytime soon. I do think it's just more and more and more and more businesses are going to compete. They're going to exist based on data. And it's going to come down to who can do the most beneficial things with it. I think it's beneficial for those organizations but also beneficial for the consumers. I think more and more people are starting to realize that a lot of that data that's out there describes me, or actually should belong to me. So now we start getting into ethics and morals and what should we or should not we be doing with different things. And that's a big part of what we do because in the healthcare space that's very sensitive data. We have PHI we have PI I know a lot of what we talk about is what's the appropriate use. What does it make sense that we could say yes we can do it. You know, Toby mentioned the breach article we also don't want to be on that front page article because we did something with someone's data that we shouldn't have been doing with it. So it's important to us that we get clear on that. But back to the original question I do think that it's not just companies that business is based on data itself, you know like social media companies others. I think all aspects of every business, they're just so much more data that's become available. It's deciding how to make the best use of it so it actually helps you in the marketplace. I like it. And so then what advice would you give the people who are looking to get into a career and data management either on the offense or the defensive side. And either one occurred with that one the same. I would say just roll up your sleeves and jump right into it, you know, we kind of touched on this but really understanding where the data comes from where it's been where it's going how it's manipulated what's it used for how can be misinterpreted. All those different things just go down that rabbit hole, because the more you specialize the more you learn I think the more valuable you're going to be. Early in my career I really struggled with, you know, inch wide mile deep or mile wide inch deep. And I, for the most part been a generalist because I like to do so many different things. But the points of my career where it actually kind of made a big leap is when I'm really specialized where I really went in and got to know something really really well. And I think the insights you gain from doing that help your career that help your organization and back to one of my earlier points. Be one of those people that shares that information be that resource that people want to go to and ask for help because I know that you're going to provide that guidance.  You know, just pay it forward be part of that because trust me you're not going to lose your position because you shared too much. And if anything your power and respecting the organization actually is going to go up because you are a trusted resource because people know if they go and ask you a question. You're going to have the answer if you don't, you'll say you don't need to be able to help get into the right place but just be open with it learn what you can learn and share that with the people around you. That's my advice. You know, it's been fun in doing these podcasts and getting in hearing some common themes. Like you mentioned being curious. I'm hearing that a lot from data professionals curious be curious about the data be curious about why the business needs it and what they're using it for. But to share it, that's, that's new. And I, and I love that advice to, you know, it going on to it. What you learn. I think that's really, really important. Toby what advice would you give to people looking to give to get into a career in data management. Yes, I got three things three thoughts. One, the first one would be make sure you balance make an effort to balance the quick wins with the big rocks. And back and that was a theme that our keynote, a couple of weeks back in San Diego was, we knew some of the things we want to do accomplish with data governance we're going to take a long time like spending multiple years and organizations don't sometimes have the attention span for that, or the wherewithal they want to see that pay off a little bit earlier. And that's okay that keeps you honest that doesn't you don't do the big rocks that means you get the ball rolling you start chipping away at them, but you also look for those quick wins where you can demonstrate value along the way. Nothing keeps your, your executive teams attention and engagement quite like declaring wins along the way. So I that's one thing I would say is if you want to, if you want to make a difference and accomplish the big multi year tasks, make sure you're balancing quick wins along the way. Number two would be actively more purpose and don't be afraid to roll up your sleeves and understand the data data, it begs to be understood data just as columns in a, in a table. Not all that interesting not all that useful understanding how those columns got to be how do we land there, what do these things represent what is the process that created that data in the first place. That'll help you really understand what what you're up against and what the operations are all about. And then the third one I would say if you're interested in the career and data management I would say, make sure you're finding an organization that either already has a culture that supports data management, or you think has a reasonable likelihood of evolving into that. Many cultures don't have it right out of the game that that's not indictment. Maybe they just never have the awareness the resources. But an organization that's going to support you as you try to help build that culture. That'll make it so much more rewarding so much more effective. We, I think we've been blessed we've been lucky that our organization views the data governance function as is not merely a necessary bureaucracy that has to be tolerated. It's a partner at the table to help us do things the right way and make the business a better place and finding that culture or place where you can help build that culture that that's where it's all going to happen. This is music to my ears that you because you're right I mean so many organizations have yet to discover that I've had a lot of people approach me asking you know how do we get executives to buy off on this and understand that this is important you know how do I get our executives to understand that data governance is not a dirty word. It's not something that just makes us adhere to the laws. Right. And so, but that's such great at career advice you know finding a culture that will support your passion. And I think it ties back to your previous question about jobs growing or shrinking in this space. And I think if you knowing that the backdrop is those jobs are increasing I think that's a unanimous kind of opinion. I think you can afford to be a little picky about the culture. It's kind of it's a good problem to have, but it's an issue you're going to have to pick that culture that you think is a good fit for you. And back to something Curtis said earlier, a lot of that is the people you work with. Now when you go through that interview, you're interviewing them every bit as much as they're interviewing. Yeah, that's so very true. So very. Anything else you want to add. No, I thank you for having us. It's been a blast. Yeah, same. Well, both to both of you. I mean, I'm so grateful that you took the time to share and more of what you do and why you're doing it and it's really been a great to hearing about your journey along the way and how you are, he got to where you are. So if you become a day diversity insider you can hear the your keynote seat from DTIQ. I highly recommend it. Well, anything. So I will post your information to on the website and just thank you again so much for being involved in today's podcast. And for all the listeners out there, if you'd like to come up to date in the latest podcast and the latest in data management education, you may go to dataversity.net or subscribe until next time. Thank you for listening to Dataversity Talks, a podcast brought to you by Dataversity. Subscribe to our newsletter for podcast updates and information about our free educational webinars at dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. .


Welcome back to Think Tech. This is Life in the Law here on Wednesday at 1 p.m. and today's show is going to involve my vice president and chief operating officer for Think Tech Hawaii, Carol Monli. Hi Carol. Hi Jay. Very important person around here and our host Marianne Sasaki for Life in the Law. Hi Marianne. Hi Jay. She's an attorney. We're all attorneys and that's the point of the show. We're calling this Hawaii the next chapter for lawyers because it seems to be an intersection of sorts, that the lawyers come here and that people here are interested in what the lawyers are doing and so it's a confluence. And it reminds me actually of the Hawaii Judiciary Museum. You know about that. Yeah. It's in the Supreme Court building. Yeah. Judiciary History Museum I think it's full. Okay and and the lesson of the Hawaii Judiciary History Museum is that the that Hawaii's history is an intersection with law. Law is a very important part of the development of the state and law is likewise a very important part since we follow the state. It's a very important part of Think Tech and so we have lawyers coming, going. Many of our hosts are lawyers. We have lawyers as guests all the time. We cover gee whiz, every kind of area of practice and every area of practice involves some kind of top-down news. So law and the way the state works, maybe the way the world works these days, you know it's our beat, it's our coverage. Okay and I want to explore on the first part of the show what it is to be a lawyer, what skills the lawyer develops, what attitudes the lawyer has and whether they're transportable and whether when you transport them they work the same way they worked before. So Carol you were a lawyer for many years. Many years. You're a retired lawyer now but you've been you've had a legal career, a legal career in practicing as corporate counsel in the law school as being the associate dean of the law school for many years and now at Think Tech which is also kind of kind of legal. So can you talk about the progression of your own career? Oh just briefly yes. Well as you said I've been in practice in LA and in Hawaii. I've been in corporate work as a corporate attorney and I've been a law professor teaching at UH law school and administrator as the associate dean but I also had a broad and I continue to have a broad interest in education in general. I used to be a teacher in grade schools and high schools and also in the nonprofit world. So I think what I bring to Think Tech is a combination of all those interests and skills and can apply them to Think Tech which is our goal is to promote civic engagement, you know create public awareness but in every field and in every area that touches our community and so by having that broad exposure I think is helpful but the skill sets that I think I bring is as as a trained lawyer as we all are is of course in law school for three years we learn to of course analyze to apply facts to understand the law but also to apply the law to certain situations but being curious about a broader set of circumstances that will then therefore affect whether it's a client or a student how all of those different experiences and and education can be applied to those situations and so I like to think that my background actually enhances what we can do at Think Tech. Yeah and it goes also for the point that law is more than a profession it's a business sector it's an industry and if you practice whatever way you practice you learn at least part of that industry and one of the reasons that I feel that engagement lateral hires ours and law firms very valuable because those people have you know life experience they have experience in the community and business and it helps them a lot that's they're more valuable to in my view to a law firm than somebody straight out of school okay now you've had a different kind of career talk about your career. Well I I've practiced privately from in large firms and small since I graduated from law school and you know I was thinking about what you were saying Carol about civic awareness I think a component of being a lawyer is being civically aware because we're officers of the court you know we're actually public figures in some sense even when we're in private practice we have a code of ethics and so um and the country was sort of founded by lawyers right so we sort of it's it's we're a country of laws so lawyers hold a very special place I think in civic awareness and civic duty in order to make our society better I just think I do I even though I'm a private lawyer I'm a corporate lawyer I do trust in the states I don't have any public interest you know backgrounds or anything but I feel an obligation to the society to make it better I just do. Not all lawyers have that sense of obligation to society then they've lost it because you know they teach it to you in law school I mean you study constitutional law it's hard not to be engaged in the constitution. It's true it's true but I mean there's one branch in the road is where you you study constitutional law you even do well on it and then you forget all about it because it doesn't affect your life or your practice. How many constitutional cases have you had? Uh well you know I haven't had myself I haven't had too many constitutional cases but I think of due process a lot and in fact they talked about due process yesterday with respect to a board meeting and I told the board that they that their members of this nonprofit were entitled to due process so um I mean I bring that kind of like you know ramrod ethical I do it's hard I mean maybe I won't make it that's why I won't make lots of money ever in my life because I don't view it as a business I view it as like a calling that you know calling this is very important but going to Carol's list of skills a sort of an a ditty bag an inventory of skills what what what skills do you have that you need to have and that define you? I have excellent analytic skills which were honed in law school because in law school they teach you to look at the law from both sides or look at a case from both sides so I could always put myself in the other person's position now where you didn't used to be able to I just always used to think well my position is right but I don't always think that way anymore and um good writing is a very important part of being a good lawyer because you have to be persuasive no matter what you're writing and and clear yeah and clear and hopefully concise yes yeah which is not an easy task actually to be all those things at once right? So Carol I mean yes it's valuable to have these skills the skills that you have and skills that Mary Ann has but what's special about the expectations the operation of think tech that makes those skills particularly important here?  I'll tell you how to answer that question approximately something over something around 35 or 40 years. 35 or 40 years so from a technical point of view of course we both all of us understand the requirements in terms of establishing the organization of making sure that we have our employment situation set up our taxes set up our non-profit status clean and things like that are lease negotiating a lease. But wouldn't they be in any non-profit and wouldn't many of them be useful in any business? Oh absolutely but in some businesses they'd have to actually hire outside counselors. Yeah not many non-profits are so organized I mean they're really not. And as I will toot our own horn all of us do what we do without pay yeah right we are you're a host who comes in regularly you bring in guests Jay and I have done work for how many years have you been working you founded think tech but so many years ago 2001 right 16 17 years ago so we are in a position that we can return to the community through think tech these skill sets that we have and apply them in a broader situation but can I follow up on something you mentioned which is I always think of a law degree and of course when I was at the law school I often talked to incoming students or people who are interested in studying the laws why why would you want to go to law school why should someone get a law degree and I always say that a law degree is actually value-added it does not mean that you're going to become another Perry Mason or go to court and you know win that big case because a law degree ends up helping in so many different professions whether it's business or law or the nonprofit sector or even entertainment or the media and I'm just thinking now because of the current situation in the media that Kellyanne Conway has a law degree of course Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton have law degrees Samantha Guthrie on today's show has a law degree you know there's so many women and men of course but I'm just thinking the women because women don't people don't typically associate women as having law degrees because as we know it's a fairly new phenomenon yeah even though we're more than half of the law students now now fine way in my day no right a small fraction you were 10% or less right when I went to law school in the 70s there were 15% women 15 now is over 50 yeah so so a law degree is value-added in so many different professions because it teaches you how to think and write you know when I when I went to law school and then I date myself too much here I graduated law school we know it was your birthday though recently Jay graduated law school 40 40 48 years no more almost 50 years 52 years ago yeah I was going to say 52 years ago it seems like yesterday but when we when we graduated the idea of not practicing was abhorrent you put all that time and money into studying law and all that midnight oil the stress and strain it's not easy nobody will ever say law school is easy or fun you know maybe college but not law school and so the idea then about not practicing law was you know that was not an option if you went that far you had to practice law but it was clear what you said and that is that it gave you skills you could use in any in any walk of life in any way because you had to engage in a in a society was becoming more complex in a society especially in this country that is built on law the whole enchilada is built on right exactly so it helps you in every way but we didn't think of that then since then I think a lot of people have gone to law school and have had the benefit of all that reading and analysis and discussion discussion a big part of it and they decided not to practice law or they went through non-profits or you know public public causes of one kind or another and it was not really what the classical model was not not in my day anyway and so and so you have lawyers out there you know huge numbers of lawyers I think it's the prize not to practice actually you know I mean it's it's a prize not to can you spot them when they don't tell you I see that analytical ability I you can tell a lawyer you can I don't know you can tell a lawyer but the thing is now the prize really isn't to practice the prize is becoming an executive or a leader of you know industry of some kind or creative person that's I mean that nobody wants to practice anymore and because it's a grind I mean it's really hard you have to do it constantly you always have to worry about billable hours you always have to worry about satisfying the client who you know often they're unsatisfiable so it's a it's a very hard job so there's other things that are much more enticing than practicing law you know and so people do it they become president that's that's far more enticing than practicing law yeah now now you're a host just a minute before we go to the break but you're a host and you bring certain skills and I want to talk about this in the next part of the show do the job of host and that means engaging with people asking them questions listening to their answers you know interpreting the world around us in the context of this one-on-one or one-on-two kind of crucible how does practicing law how does law school practicing law and litigation how those things improve your ability to do hosting do you want the answer or should we wait till the break oh let's make it a cliff hanger okay that's a cliffhanger we love cliffhangers because then we can take a break we'll take a short break that's Mary Ann Sasaki and Carol Montelie will be right back aloha everybody my name is Mark Shklav I'd like you to join me for my program law across the sea on thinktech hawaii.com aloha aloha I'm Richard Emory I'm with co-host Jane Sugimura of condo insider Hawaii's weekly show about association living the purpose of these videos is to educate board members and condo residents about issues relating to association living we hope they're helpful and that they assist in resolving problems that affect the relationship between boards and their residents each week thursday at three p.m. we bring you exciting guests industry experts who for free will share their advice about how to make your association a better place to live and answer a lot of very interesting questions aloha we hope you'll tune in back one bingo we're back you should have been around during the break we're really getting into thinking of it now okay so you go to law school you get out and we have to go back to your question of course we go to law school you get out and you can get a job so you have options one is you can go home live with your parents and drive their car well that wasn't an option for me but I suppose yes it was an option okay the other is you can find some other kind of job any job you know don't say mcdonald's but although that pays relatively well especially if you increase the minimum wage which is not a political show okay so the the question is you get out of school and you can't can't find a job in a in the classical model law firm or even government law firm but as I said there are many students now many law schools promote the fact that they are training public interest lawyers or lawyers who are going into the corporate field or maybe politics who are not going to be interested in going the tradition traditional route of law practice that's true that's true yeah the interesting thing is if you go that route you're taking skills that could flower this way and they do and you can and they get narrow yeah that's right that's right the most you know the most pristine classical way to express yourself through a law degree they go practice law in the old-fashioned way and I think a lot of lawyers you know who go down the narrow paths of corporate or something really highly specialized public interest law environmental law good example yeah I mean in an organization an institutional organization they narrow their career possibilities because when they finish it's an interesting question as to whether the classical law firm is going to see them as more valuable less valuable yes specialization in a way is a disservice to oneself or maybe this a service to your firm and you may be very productive for your firm but if you really narrow yourself down to one area that definitely limits your options in terms of what what you could possibly do you know and law firms may not be interested in you because you're narrow and they want to may I say they're renaissance lawyer right on the other hand though you have let's say a specialist who's been in environmental law maybe becomes even a partner in a private firm that person goes out and then starts or becomes very involved in a public interest organization and may end up being the leader the CEO the president who ends up bringing lots of visibility and money to an organization that otherwise it may have been floundering without the leadership of somebody with a law degree isn't that what we are carol yes that is exactly what we are public interest organization our goal practicing law but it's practicing public interest right explain well if anybody takes the time to look through our archives and our think-tip website and just see that we run 35 shows a week on 35 different topics a week relating to everything every culture technology energy education farming you name it drones you know driverless cars quality we could go on but what our goal is for each of those half-hour shows is to inform the public to create an engagement and awareness that may not have been there already may not have been there before and that we do that through the use of these wonderful hosts these wonderful volunteers who have experience in background and who volunteer their time to come to think tech to line up guests to inform the public and to give the audience an opportunity to hear something to hear a perspective to hear information to engage and to express what maria was talking about earlier their obligation to society right to actually help society the common good yeah when you asked about why go to law school you know i think you know i'm from an immigrant family and i and i think there was a component of becoming a better citizen you know i mean there's this notion of being a good citizen and participating in in in this in civil society is you know it's kind of been lost but it's this kind of noble immigrants have it still they they understand the united states and the meaning of the united state better than a lot of people who've been here for hundreds of years it's true right so you know i mean i viewed it as a way to really become part of america really become part of the united states i'm going to become a lawyer i'm going to be a full-fledged citizen i'm going to do my duties to the to the republic okay now you remember we had a cliffhanger i don't forget that right stuff yeah and we were talking about the skills that you have had through law school and and through your classical you know practice of law what skills help you in being a host and how much do they help you well i think you know one important thing is that you must engender trust in your client your client must be able to trust you to make the best decisions possible on their behalf and i think you must engender trust as a host as well so that the guest feels free and liberated to express their opinions if they trust you and go with you you can go anywhere you know and that's i that's i don't know if they teach that law school i guess they they really kind of don't but you learn that in practicing that that um your reputation and your uh willingness to be open-minded and your willingness to help it's it's what makes your clients trust you you know and it's what makes the guest trust you too you know how about forming questions well i you know i've always been able to do that i'm an italian they're curious okay it's ethnic it's cultural and it's a lawyer's thing but forming questions is a critical part of this whole the whole deal everything around here it's about forming questions and being curious and opening issues up and thoughts up that you wouldn't otherwise hear about and listening and listening to the answers it's the sausage theory you know the question begets the answer that's right the next question that's why you don't have to have it you shouldn't have it all written down you should follow you know where the crucible goes i think that makes it more interesting uh watching for sure i mean uh people always say at the ends of the show that was really fun or that went really fast and it's because it's interesting because we're engaged we're in great we're engaged in the moment we want to be in the moment you didn't realize that you're at the wrong end of a deposition here i know i sort of did i was like oh my god they i'm here in the middle of two both of them and we are we also have in addition to life in the law which marianne hosts we have uh governor john why hey well of course is a lawyer who used to practice um and we have other shows that marx love who does a great show on international law um we've had other shows maybe you can remind me of some of the other shows we've had that have been law related oh we've had uh education it's a law related and environment for sure is law related of course and we've had business shows lots of business shows that are law related and sometimes in pop lawyers i mean it's not just the hosts don't you agree it's it's the guests we have an enormous number of lawyers who come through here on every area immigration comes to mind number of immigration lawyers uh labor lawyers criminal lawyers criminal lawyers he was a great guest matrimonial lawyers i mean all walks of life and nonprofits and i always think beyond just them being lawyers it's the organization that i'm interested in because it's a law related uh community an organization that reaches out into the community to serve certain populations whether it's the disabled or whether it's immigrants or whether it's women who have suffered from domestic violence but who all need law legal services and those are the people who then can hear and listen and engage in our show and inform the public about these extraordinary really important issues you never have the opportunity to see this kind of engagement this kind of interaction because it it's not just what we say or what our guests say it's the whole environment of the conversation it teaches you so much about our world today a world of laws but one of the things i wanted to ask you about was diane de sierto yes and the reason i want to ask about that because it opens a whole new area of this conversation she's a lawyer she's an international lawyer she's from the philippines but she i think she teaches on the mainland is it well she has been at uh law school for for a few years and she's a graduate of yale and i think this year she's at stanford she's a very prominent international lawyer from philippines really talented brilliant great range of ideas and anyway the point the point i make is that how can you possibly i mean i suppose some journalists can do this but how can you possibly engage with diane de sierto about international law issues that are front page top of the line most important cerebral issues in in in humanity right now how can you gauge with her unless you can understand something about international law and being a lawyer really helps you get into that and and she's not the only one but i i think of her as a you know the kind of the kind of world-class guests that we can get on think tech and use our skills or you know our orientation to to be in the crucible with her you know we can actually have that conversation with her she's only one there are others many but she comes to mind when you think about that but in that vein though too and that's because we have 35 different shows and 35 different hosts who are expert in their own or have deep interest in their own areas whether it's environment or energy like we have five energy shows you know the fact that we can explore the different facets of energy locally internationally the different ramifications through these different topics they aren't lawyers but they are energy people hardcore energy a lot of energy is law a lot of a lot of growing any industry is law but the other thing i think also to be discussed here is that we need to i've always felt as i was going to write a book one time and the book was called would have been called how to deal with your lawyer okay you still like that you really could be a best seller i went to my firm at the time uh and i and i said i'd like to write this book about how to deal with your lawyer you know engagement agreements retainer agreements you know how you how you make sure you're not getting over billed and whatnot um and they said don't write that book don't write that book why too much you want to keep it mysterious the practice is being something far beyond the that of mortal men and it's kind of a mystery that they just didn't have a good feeling about so i didn't write the book but but you know part of what we do especially on life in the law and all that is we introduce the public to what it's like in the industry in the economic sector of practicing law and they need to know because they don't know so many of them are intimidated they've had bad experiences they look at the media you know it paints a you know bad profile of lawyers and and the profession um and so i think part of think tech is to deliver a picture of this especially this area of activity so people you know what did you say trust right you know have a better sense of lawyers why does one help people i mean you go into the law because you want to help people you want people to be able to navigate the legal system system which is complex and uh and inaccessible in many in many instances and so there really is this original impetus of of service i i think you know the vicissitudes of business make perhaps change people but but essentially you you want your help you want to help the your client you want to help your client get what they want you know i mean that's and for think tech to do that thanks everybody it's a win win win win because the lawyer looks good we look good the public look you know it gets educated on something they really need to know about but one thing i'm going to tell you is that we have a minute left carol okay and it's time for you to summarize the show oh my goodness okay well think tech Hawaii has a lot of goals and a lot of interest and because we are lawyers in this case we hopefully bring to you our community our public a level of interest interest in understanding that will help you not just understand community issues but bringing a perspective that perhaps you may not have otherwise known and that we can enjoy sharing and we're happy to do that and we are happy to enjoy that kind of contribution of the community we do that was bigger see it as our obligation we do with vigor right what a vigorous discussion thank you ladies thank you carol manly thank you martin marion so sake


Welcome to BCH Technologies. Today we're going to troubleshoot the PG-245. The customer reported after installed the cover, the black cover, the cartridge doesn't fit anymore. Yeah, this is the case that you'll try to resolve it over the phone or online. Just somehow you just cannot figure out. But after they send it in, and you take a look, and immediately you know what's going on. So can you tell what's wrong? Let me give you a clue. I knew something was wrong with that. Give it away. Yeah, the cover is glued upside down. If I have a patient, you can use a utility knife to carefully cut off the top. Oh, don't forget to protect your printhead. So we got a piece of tape, the non-sticky part towards the printhead, the sticky part towards you.  This time the sticky part down towards the printhead. And it will glue it towards both sides. And the third piece going to go over the top. And they'll be a little bit taller than the piece you had before. So if you have the super glue dripping down, the tape can protect it. We have to cut lots of cartridges every day. So we just use this to cut it off by now. You can see it's not a clean cut. So there are lots of leftover pieces need to be removed. And we took away a part of the wall. So when we glue it, we need to put more glue on those parts to make it airtight. We made sure that we remove enough pieces. So now we can put a new cover on it. And now we sand it. And then we give it back. So we made sure the cover can fit in. And of course, at this time, I'll be in the correct direction. And then we put a layer of super glue on it. And then for the side where we have a gap, we put a super glue gel. This is a different kind of super glue. It's thicker. And it's working really well to seal the gaps. After 12 hours, we put the cartridge underwater and blow air in it. And we can see the cartridge is still leaking on the side. So we're going to add more super glue gel on where it leaks. 12 hours later, let me show another way of testing the leaks. So this time we have the refill hole closed. And then we're going to blow air into the air hole using the priming syringe that's coming with your kit. What you should see is air bubbles coming from the bottom of the cartridge, not from the top. And of course, you want to test this when the cartridge is empty. Now we have the cartridge airtight. So we can add inks. This one will take 22 mils of ink. Now we put the cartridge in and do a head cleaning. So the black cartridge was OK. Just the color cartridge needed a little bit of unclogging. You can see there's one missing pixel. So if the first cleaning didn't do well, we're going to do another one immediately. And then we're going to wait two hours and then do two more. If after that it's still clogged, we're going to use extended method. Luckily for us, the second cleaning works. So I'm going to just put the links to the extended cleaning in the comment section. I hope you enjoyed this video. Visit us at www.bchtechnologies.com or locally at Greensboro, North Carolina. Thank you. Cheers.