The ultimate form of exercise for longevity as defined by living a long healthy life is strength training. Now, why is that? Strength training is the only form of exercise that is specifically pro-healthy tissue. It's the only form of exercise that directly builds one of the healthiest tissues in your body, which is muscle. Muscle is hormone-sensitive. It produces anti-inflammatory compounds. It boosts your metabolism. It's a storage vessel for carbohydrates, and the obvious, it makes you move. It gives you mobility. No other form of exercise directly does this. Other forms of exercise may indirectly do this, but strength training is pro-anabolic, pro-tissue. Train it for longevity. Is this in regards to the study that came out about the muscle fibers kind of deforming and changing as we age? They just did a study, wild, right, where they looked at untrained individuals versus trained individuals. They looked at their muscle fibers, and the muscle fibers of those that were untrained were, as they defined it, irregular shaped. So, deformed. Yeah, essentially, right? So, here's what's wild about that. This really backs up what Dr. Lyon has been saying, right? Five pounds of muscle is not five pounds of muscle. We used to think that, right? Now, one may be stronger than the other because we would say the central nervous system, you know, activates it better. Maybe it's got better use of energy, whatever. But the muscles themselves actually look different. And they can see this now, microscopically, when they examine the muscle. So, it's not that you're just building muscle. You also turn the muscle you have into a healthier version of itself. And what I said earlier about other forms of exercise, strength training directly, the direct effect of it is to build, is to build, is to build. And muscle is this super healthy, essentially, organ that you have on your body. And the healthier it is, and the more of it that you have, of course, within the realm of, you know, natural and so forth, for the most part, is better. When you have less of it, and it's less healthy, you have terrible effects. The side effects of which are things like obesity, insulin resistance, hormone imbalances, and loss of mobility. So, it's like, you know, for longevity purposes, just for living longer, all activity is good as long as it's appropriate. But strength training is like, it's so far head and shoulders above the others, it's in a completely different category. It's like strength training, and then everything else down here. So, these muscle fibers, like when you look at it, like, is it, like, what kind of shapes are we looking at here in terms of like, you know... They're not uniform? They're irregular? Irregular and like, kind of curved or...  I feel like I can picture this. There's a picture of it. Oh, really? Yeah, pull it up so maybe we can see it. But I mean, I'm saying more so like the bodies, right? Like, I've seen a 60-year-old body on somebody who's never lifted weights. And like, their bicep doesn't even look right, you know what I'm saying? It looks, it's all kind of like lumpy or shaped weird. Like, envision an advanced-age client who's never lifted weights before that you've had and just their, the shape to their, even their muscle... These little inconsistencies... Yeah, it looks weird. Well, so I don't know if that, how that applies to this. Yeah, I don't know if it is. I'm just saying that like, I never thought of that until you just said that. I'm like, I wonder if that's... I just sent the link to Doug. Yeah, I never even thought about the quality of, you know, the actual muscle tissue, like, over time. Well, so this backs up also the whole like, because there's always, and I've brought this, there it is right there. So look at a young muscle, look at old muscle. No, that doesn't help us. Okay. See the one on the bottom left, how it looks kind of like they're all different shapes. It's not uniform. Yeah. On the right, on the bottom is the worst one. On the top is the healthy-looking muscle. You're, by the way... So it's just a better uniform pattern. By the way, if you don't strength training, you don't, excuse me, if you don't strength train, even if you're young, your muscles under a microscope will look old. They'll start to look like they've aged. It's totally reversible with heavy strength training though. Yeah. Remarkable, right? Yeah, that's interesting. So what's also cool, and I brought this up before, the whole argument, and there's people on the social media fitness, you know, people who will say... Who shared this with our friends? The study was not done by Dr. Andy Galpin, but he shared it, and I follow him. So I reposted it. So the argument of like the, oh, one pound of muscle only burns this many calories. You can only speed up your metabolism so much. Reverse dieting doesn't work, et cetera, et cetera. But we've all experienced this. Well, we'll have a client, and it's not like you gain 20 pounds of muscle. Again, like four pounds of muscle. But we reverse diet them. They get stronger. They gain four pounds of muscle, which is not a ton. It's enough to where you could feel it, but it's not a ton. But then we'll see the metabolism boost by like 800 calories, right? A thousand calories. How is that possible? Well, healthy muscle is far more metabolically active. So even though they haven't gained pounds and pounds of muscle. So your theory is that what we've seen or what we've identified is that, you know, when we measure in these studies, this is why this is such a frustrating argument for us, right? When you get these people that we just went through this back and forth with our buddy, James Smith, we were talking about the content that he put out there. And we were just like, it's not that simple of like what the studies show that, oh, this only burns this many, this many calories. Yeah, a pound of muscle only burns this many, right? And because in the research, we're isolating that, but we're not looking at what's happening metabolically to the entire body just by exercising again. So what you're saying is theoretically, not only did we potentially add five pounds of muscle to this client where we saw this huge metabolic boost, but we also made all the other muscle in their body healthier and better. Yep. Wow. I mean, let me ask you. I mean, that makes it, that makes, that seems to be, it seems to help explain that phenomenon that we know. And it's way more complex than just that. I don't even think I'm explaining, you know, 10% of it. I think that's part of it because there's other metabolic functions in the body that we don't understand much of. Like you can become more and less efficient with your calories, even though your body looks the same just by changing the inputs, right? The signals and the stress and all that stuff. But look, how many times have you experienced this, Adam, where you reversed a client, a female client, and she gains like five pounds of muscle. I don't know, like five pounds of muscle, but she's eating a thousand more calories a day and not gaining body fat. Yeah. What is that? You know, 250 calories burned by each pound of muscle. I don't think, I don't think that's necessarily what's happening. I think part of it is the extra muscle, but part of it is the other muscle that she had is healthier. The other part of it is the body becomes less efficient with calories or produces more energy, more heat. You know, so you get this thermogenic effect. There's a lot of other factors that are at play, but yeah, it's really interesting.  You just improve the health of the existing muscle that you have. Oh, yeah. Yeah, improve the actual function and health of it. It's interesting to think about that. It's crazy. Yeah. You just, you assume that you, you know, just visually or over the years you've built muscle that it's just going to kind of remain, you know, in its intended sort of function and everything's going to work out. Who shared that conversation or that clip? Was it, was it Peter Atea or Huberman? Who was sharing that, how little of strength training you had to do today? Dr. Andy Galpin. Oh, was it Galpin? Yeah. Oh, it was Galpin. Yeah. So now this is not for a trained individual, but he's telling me the average person, I'm pretty sure, where the average person, you lose a certain percentage of muscle every year as you reach a certain age. And the question was, how much strength training do you have to do? How little strength training do you have to do in order to just... Like, what's the minimum to prevent that? Like, one session every two or three weeks. Yeah. Would be enough to just not lose. Now, because of that and like how, that's a big deal when you think about it. Yeah. And also much easier to adhere to that than, you know, an hour of cardio every single day. So at what point do the doctor start shifting to that recommendation of, hey, just strength train once a week. Once a week, I just need you to, and maybe even simpler, these three exercises, right? Like a full body squad or an overhead. Couple of movements once a week could have massive positive implications. In general practitioners, it's always that, you know, you have to go to that like minimal viable option for people, right? And maybe that is sort of... And that's what I mean by that, right? Yeah. I'm glad you pointed that out too. Obviously, I'm not advocating that for our listeners who are into health and fitness. Like, you know, hey, just work out once every two weeks. Like for general population, that would at least... Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking about how much we're struggling with obesity in this country.  You know how many clients I had towards the end of my career that were in what would be considered advanced age, which I would classify as over 65, okay? Do you know how many clients I had in that age group who I trained one day a week? And that was it. That was it. They did nothing else on their own. I mean, to my best ability to try to get them to do exercise on their own, the vast majority of them did nothing else on their own.  They would come see me, and I would train them one day a week. And it was not this intense, crazy workout. We're talking about 75-year-olds, 80-year-olds where one of the exercises would be sit down and stand up seven times or try and reach this balloon that I'm throwing to... Just get the muscles to contract. Okay. And I saw, and I saw with every single one of them with once a week of strength training, okay? At a very appropriate level for them, I saw consistent strength gains in them. And they saw consistent improvements in the quality of life. To the point where I remember specifically one woman, Kim, who hired me, she was in the stage group, and I remember her daughter questioning whether or not this was even valuable. She's like, that's gonna be a waste of time. She sees you once a week. She misses sessions sometimes because of her health. So like three workouts a month, four workouts a month. Like, are we just wasting our time? And I said, no, we're gonna see strength gains. And within two months, she was like, sold. I can't, she, I remember saying it to me, I can't believe the improvements I'm seeing with just once a week. Now, back then when they explained, the way I explained it was, I mean, it's way more than what she was doing. So it's gonna produce something. But now when you look at all the data, it's very clear what was happening. It's like, that's enough.  Scurvy from not having enough vitamin C to prevent disease. And you gave them just a little vitamin C. Like not what would be optimal, but just enough, you would see no scurvy and people would be like, oh my God, this is insane. Yarr, I'm cured. What we're seeing, pirates, what we're seeing is that this once, every once in a while strength training is far from optimal. But I think what it more illustrates is just how, just how little people do, just how little of signal they tell their body that we need some muscle. Think about this. If your life consists of getting up, getting in your car, sitting down, getting in the office, sitting down, going home, sitting in your car, coming home, moving around a little bit, sitting down, your body has the signals that it receives are, we need no strength, we need no muscle, we need very little function, just operate at absolute minimum and then slowly your body adapts downward. So this makes me wonder, because we're talking about advanced age, we're talking about decondition, obese people, like how beneficial that this would be. I wonder how beneficial this would be to somebody like ourselves who have put decades of consistent lifting and training to you. Like, man, just if you just never fell off, like you just, hey, I'm gonna make sure I never. Bro, I have to, the amount of working out I need to do now to maintain the strength and physique that I have is so little in comparison to what I had to do in the past to get there. I know, that's why I'm saying this. So, like we've talked about, using the analogy of comparing it to investing, I feel like we've done so much investing early in our life that we can get away with so much more spending, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not reinvesting. Yeah, true. You can get away with... It's compounding interest, isn't it? Yeah, and I really think that people that would consider themselves ex-athletes or at one time in their life, they were fitness fanatics, like, man, you've built, you've invested for a long time, you've built a lot of muscle with it. Like, man, you just making sure you're hitting the weights once a week, it seems like, I wish we had some really good studies to show that, right? Well, we do train individuals. It's like one, it ranges between one fifth to one ninth of the work that it took to build the muscles required to keep it. So, let's go with the most, the smallest one, one fifth, right? You work out five days a week to build your muscle. To keep it is like one day a week. That's crazy. Yeah. That is crazy. With, you know, comparable intensity and all that other stuff. That is wild to me. But I mean, I experience it now. Like I said, in order to maintain, do you know what it would take in my 20s to keep the kind of physique? I wouldn't be able to keep it. I'd have to work so hard to build it. My diet would have to be super dialed in and all this stuff would have to be perfect.  You know, I work out at 5 30 a.m. So my workouts aren't like super great, you know, most of the time I'm not training with, you know, the same kind of intensity I can't and it just stays. I mean, that's why I love using the comparison with like investing because it's like you make a lot of sacrifice and discipline early on. Yeah. But boy, does it really pay off in the long run. So yeah, maybe you're not going out and blowing all that money on those things in your early 20s, but hey, stay the course. Because if you keep reinvesting, keep reinvesting, sacrifice a little bit now why you're young and it's early. Like boy, you start getting 30, 40, 50 and you've put decade or decades behind you of being consistent and lifting weights and training hard and doing that. Your health retirement is much brighter. Do you know what I used to say? Yeah, I love that. You know what I used to say to people that was wrong? It was so wrong. You remember this, right?  I always thought it was such a dumb question. They'd say, okay, well, once I build all this muscle what happens when I stop, right? Yeah, and I'd be like, well, you lose it, right? And I used to say this to say whatever it took to build the body is what you're going to need to do to keep the body. I was wrong. Whatever you do to build the body, you do way less of it to keep the body. Now obviously if you stop completely, it's going to go backwards. Right. But oh my God, with strength training, it's almost like this panacea. It's like, hey guys, work out, be consistent, build the muscle, do a good job. Later on, you don't got to do nearly as much to keep it. That is crazy. It's a beautiful thing. I didn't know that before. I used to say the wrong thing. I know and I feel like if we're communicating that better. That's a great selling message. Yeah, and that's why I think it aligns so well with the investing thing. It's like, I wish I understood investing like I do at this age back when I was in my 20s because I would have sacrificed a lot more from 20 to 25 and been smarter with my money because of where I just now, because before you know it, you are 40 and it's like, oh my God, if I would have just not bought that car or not did all those crazy trips or not gamble that money the way I did. It's always coffee, by the way. They're always like, if you just didn't buy one Starbucks. You'd be a millionaire by the time you were 45. Have you ever seen those? They're so annoying. They're the most annoying. They're so annoying. Let's just say you go to the movies and you get popcorn. It's always some weird thing. I should have thought of that. It's funny when you talk to people. I should have bought a house when I was 16. Today's giveaway is the Super Bundle of Programs. Here's how you can win it. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know the comment section. We also have a huge sale right now, right? So it's January. Everybody's getting started. Here's what we did. We put together four bundles of workout programs. Each one of these bundles is between $300 to $350 discounted. Okay? So $300 to $350 off each one of these bundles. Check them out. New to weightlifting bundle, body transformation bundle, New Year extreme intensity bundle, and the body transformation bundle. If you're interested in any of them, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right. Back to the show. Bro, I tell you what. I could have done so much because I was a kid. I was 18 years old making six figures in 1997. I didn't move out of my parents' house until, let's see, 18, 19, 20, 20 until 2001. Okay? So I worked. I made six figures, paid no rent. I didn't have a car payment because I bought my car's cash. I had no bills. I had no bills. Okay? So I was just saving money. But all I learned from my parents, my parents are old school. They came from very... Save, save, save. They knew the basics. I know. I had the same. Just save your money. Yeah. They knew the basics because that's where they came from. So it was just, don't spend a lot. Save your money. Which, by the way, if you just know those two things, you're good, right? So that's all I did. I just saved. And I'd have friends who'd be like, you know you could buy a house and then you could take this and buy this thing over here. And they'd be like, no, I don't need a house. That's crazy. Yeah. I keep saving my...  I'd have like 15 properties or something if I did all that. Back then, because back then, my first house I bought in San Jose was in 2001. It was a three bedroom, whatever, it was $410,000. Yeah. That same house now would be about a million. It was 01 when you did that? Yeah. We were right around the same time. It was 02. 02, 02. And it was 320,000 for my condo. Yeah. And remember, I was making six figures. I could have bought two houses for that price. Or I could have bought that one, paid it off or rented it, bought another one. And it stretched me thin because at that time, I only had saved up $50,000 or $60,000.  No, I didn't that yet. Even back then? No, no, no. I didn't move into... Well, I don't know. I thought you did. No, no. So it was after that. So that was actually... And this was a mistake, right? Looking back, one of the lessons I learned, there was a point when the condo was worth a half a million dollars, right? So I had $200,000, $300,000 in equity. And I learned about the... So you know the interest that you pay on your mortgage is tax deductible. And that's when I learned like, why would you ever have a car payment if you have that much equity in a home? Oh. You roll it into the home. We tamed it. I did. And that's when I bought my first like, $80,000 truck back then. And that's not a bad decision. When you got that much equity in there, it's better than it shouldn't go take a loan out. Looking back now, I wish I would have had more of like the millionaire next door mentality, which is living significantly below my means, right? But yeah. No, I took that out. And then I also was, that was in the era of like the loans were crazy. So I, and I was young. So I had good credit, but I had no, I didn't do a NAGAM or adjustable. But when you were that young, like even though I had like impeccable credit, never missed a payment on anything, I was so young in the bureau that you don't, that also has a lot of weight too. So you could be perfect on your credit, but you only have one credit card and you've never spent more than five grand. Like they're, they're, you're still going to have a, Yeah.  So one loan carried 80% of it. The other was a 20% of it. And it won the, the fixed 30 on the 80% was 9%. And then the 20% was a 12 or 13% loan. So I had like a blended 11%. So, so even though 300,000, 320,000 dollars is not a lot of money. It was the interest that was, you know, in order to buy my house, my first house, when I first tried to go see what I qualified for, the guy tried to look up my credit and I had no credit. Yeah. So you like to have a credit card. Yeah. I'd never had a credit. So how did you get a good loan? Then if you had to go open a Macy's, I swear to God, this is true story. I went and got a Macy's account. And then I had, I was able to get a credit card. And then any dollar I spent, I used my credit card and paid it off every month. Yeah. But even then that's still not enough. Okay.  No, maybe. I don't know. But I built that up and then over time, plus the amount of income that I had and the savings that I had. So I had over six figures saved up in the bank. I mean, you were the same bonus. I remember back then they didn't have the same. Well, so that's what I'm saying.  They want to see four credit lines for more than four or more years in the credit bureau. And when you're buying a home at 21 years old, you just don't have that. Yeah.  And who goes and gets four credit cards? You know what I'm saying? So you maybe you got a car loan, maybe you have one Macy's card. Mm-hmm. But normally then you still would be subprime, would be like a subprime. Yeah. But back then, you know how it was back then. This is what led to the 2008 crash, right? It's like, it got crazy. People don't realize this, young people especially.  Yeah. Okay. And then you would write down how much you made. Nobody checked anything. I could literally be like, oh, I make $2 million a year. You qualify for this. And they would just give it to you. Yeah, that's why. So I had friends and family members who were making, you know, 70 grand a year, right? 80 grand a year. So not like tons of money, but okay, you know, okay money. But they own five, six properties like, because they kept doing that one after another and they would do all these adjustable loans on all of them. So they could afford the payments. Of course, when the loans adjusted to the new payment, everybody lost everything. Yeah. It was crazy.  I don't know. Sometimes you're in and out, right? With like, are you really following the markets right now? Like, you know what, what's your thought or what your family's thought on real estate this coming year? Oh, I mean, they think it's good. If they drop the rates again, they think it's going to be another run. It's crazy. They're going to blow up. I know. You know what the incentive? And that's just because supply is so low. Yeah. Supply is so low. So there's, even though there's a significant... And you know who's going to buy up when the rates go down? Investors. Yeah. Investors. Yeah, yeah. Not people. Not real people. So I got into it with some realtor online yesterday. I shouldn't have let myself get sucked in, but I did. Was it just comments somewhere? Yeah, yeah. I made like a sarcastic comment because he made this prediction of like, basically he was telling people like, now between now and February 28th is the time to buy. Did you see, by the way, did you see that there was a meme with a real estate agent on it? And it's like underneath it, it's like, now's a good time to buy. It says guy who profits from you buying. It says guy who profits. Okay, literally. 100%. 100%? Every time. Okay. So that was the... I've never talked to an agent who's told me, listen, don't get anything. So I don't mess up what I said. Like literally it was, someone was promoting that. And the comment I made was, because he was telling people to buy with that. I said, laugh out loud. I said, I have a better prediction. I said more than 50% of realtors will need to pick up a second job by the end of 2024. Oh well, I wonder why he got mad. Yeah. So he fires back at me. He says, maybe it's a job with high turnover rate. But again, childish mud slinging at a prediction is wild. We don't even know why you're passionate about this, but would love to hear more from you if you could present yourself as more of an adult or whatever. Well, even though you're doing the funny voice, he actually said it really nice. I mean, he was pretty accurate and objective right there. No, no, no. It's mud slinging. I said mud slinging. I said it's just a better prediction than yours. I said just one week ago, Yahoo Finance posted 45% of realtors say they're struggling to pay their rent. You know that right now? Wow. 45, almost half of realtors right now are struggling to do that. And even in, so here's the thing that I don't like about the people that are putting out stuff like this, is like, and of course you're going to say that because you're dependent on people buying homes for you to make money. It's like going to go buy a car. If you unless you're Uber rich and all your family and friends are too, you shouldn't even want this.  If what you're predicting is true, if now is a great time to buy and you're going to get all this equity in the next year or two, meaning that means houses continue to, because that was his comment is that you're going to get a ton of equity within a year. A year you'll have all this equity in this home if you buy between now and in the end of February. And it's like, I'm not saying necessarily that isn't true because you're right. If we drop rates in Q1 and we have this low of supply, then a bunch of people who do have the money will go in and buy up what's there just to take advantage of the lower rates and all that will do is skyrocket the housing. But it's not going to be middle class, lower class people buying those homes. It's people with all the money. And so all you're doing is you're moving that out of range for your, and so if you have kids or you have family who are not rich, like that's a terrible thing to want to see happen. You know what the problem is? Have they started regulating these investment? No. Yeah. Well, they're... I heard whims of it, though. Yeah. They're trying to put on a, maybe Doug can look this up because I don't know where it's at. I brought this up. Black Rocks and... They're trying to limit big investment groups like Black Rock coming in and buying single family homes. Oh, yeah. That's what I heard. Yeah, yeah.  So here's the big, big challenge. If you... Okay, so here's what would have to happen at large scale to lower the price or to get real estate to become more affordable. One is a dramatic increase in supply. We need more homes. So in order to do that, we have to change regulations and make it easier to build a lot of houses. Okay? Here's the problem with that. People who currently own houses do not want that. Go to any neighborhood. All right. This is happening all the time. This is happening all the time. Go to any neighborhood here in the Bay Area. Whenever they try to build a lot of new... They fight against it. They fight against it because why it'll drop their property values. So... Oh, did they actually ban it? Yeah. I think it's a proposed... Yeah, it's proposed when I brought it up. Yes. So it's called the End Hedge Fund Control of American Homes Act.  So the idea is to stop institutional investors from buying single family properties. So, okay, where do you stand on this? I don't know where I'm at on this. What does that mean, though? I know. So it means, like, black rock. No, no, no. But what's an institute? What do they qualify? How do you become... Well, that's what they have to determine. Is it like people buying, like, investment properties? No. Like, you wouldn't be limited to doing it. Why? It's massive funds. It's hedge funds and institutional investors. What's an institutional investor? I want to know how they define it. Oh, well, you can probably look it up. I'm sure it means that you're taking on groups of 10 or more people's money in order to... Because that makes a big difference. Sure, absolutely. Like, if anybody already owns two properties, they can't buy another one. Okay, you're right. I don't agree with that. But I mean, having somebody who has that much power and control... Because if you limit investment into the housing market, what you also run the risk of is what happens in rent... Like, for example, what happens in rent-controlled cities. Cities that try to control rent by... Or try to make rent less expensive by putting a cap on rent. What ends up happening is the property owner stop investing in their own properties and so the properties become decrepit because they can't charge more. And you reduce the supply significantly because anybody coming in doesn't want to build new properties because it doesn't make sense. So we end up with a lower supply. San Francisco, New York City, and areas, that's what happens. It's like a property goes up for rent in a rent-controlled area. It gets... There's like 100,000 applicants. And nobody can get it because... Yeah, because need your reaction is like, yeah, they got to regulate because, you know, it's otherwise... Like, who's going to be able to compete with, you know... I mean, I'm not against this. I'm not against this. I'm not against this. I'm not either. Yeah, I think it's a very fair play to limit them from doing that because, I mean, single-family homes... What do they need single-family homes? Yeah, honestly. Yeah, I... Here's the thing. It's just that they can artificially... In an environment like this, they can artificially control it. Okay, I got an idea. No, hold on. I got an idea. You're right, but let me... I got an idea or a thought around this. I just want to process this out loud. So you've got these huge investment companies going and buying single-family homes. Okay? Yeah. That's a strong incentive for builders to build and provide more supply. When these people leave the market, we could potentially lose the incentive for builders to build more homes, thus shrinking the supply more. No, we won't. Not as... Not as the supply is as low as it is, and the demand is maintaining where it's at, even with these high interest rates. The demand is still there for the builders. But that's my point. Is this demand... Is this going to affect the demand to the point where the demand drops, and now we get less supply? No, because a lot of these big investment hedge funds have already slowed all that down anyways. They're not investing right now. They're all halting all that anyways. But what it is is to prevent them from if we do do a rate drop right now, going in when we have this low of supply, gobbling it all up, and then artificially... When the offer is being so ridiculous, your individuals coming in can't really compete with that. This is what I try to do with stuff like this, is I try to really slow down and think about all the unintended consequences, because oftentimes we don't see them. For example, I'll give you... This is not related, but we'll go in, we'll have politicians or whatever, activists go into a third-world country, and lobby government with the funding of the U.S. government, whatever to prevent anybody under the age of 12, let's say, working, all the labor laws, we need to put these in this country.  So it's like you took one thing out that you thought was bad, but what happened was something worse. So I would be very... Okay, so this bill denies taxpayers owning 50 or more single-family properties. Any tax deduction or interest paid or accrued in connection with any single-family residential rental property. I don't like that. Yeah, that's because you don't own 50 yet. I mean, honestly, even if I... I mean, at that point, it's just crude for me as an individual, right? If I got 50 properties already and they put a law like this that I can't get any more tax benefit after 50, then, you know, then I guess I gotta find other ways to make millions of dollars that I own. That is a pretty large bar. That's a huge bar. And you're not... And the people that you're hitting on this are only the people that either want or are controlling a fund, or people that are uber-rich that can afford 50 properties. I want to look at... I got to really think about this. I think there's a way around that, though. You just open a new entity and buy under another entity. Yeah, that... So I wonder how... And then have a parent company own all those entities? Something like that. Yeah. They don't own that many. They just got to own enough that they can hold up to 50. They can have three that hold up 50. But you own all three entities? Sure. Does that mean that you own in 150? I don't know. Or could you do something like where I have... Katrina owns one and then I own another entity... You know why I'm saying this, by the way? I'm just saying that you can get around it. You know why? Yeah, you know why I'm saying this? You always can, right? How much influence do these big hedge funds have over politicians? I know. To Doug's point, it would be interesting on how it's written to where... Exactly.  Can you feel better? Or fucks the guy like me who is trying to get that many. You know what I'm saying? That guy gets screwed because he doesn't have the ability to navigate to it. Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised. Well, every time they do something like that... You're going to own nothing and rent everything. So I'm just like... To me, that has never looked so believable until now. Yeah, yeah.  You know why, by the way? It was 2018 when he said that, wasn't it? It'd be good to see the growth of that company and what they've acquired in terms of... BlackRock? Yeah, I would like to see that. Oh, they're one of the... Oh, bro. I know, but like just visually, right? BlackRock, Vanguard and what's the other one are like... Slow this down. Three of the most powerful companies in the world. Yeah. Yeah, no. Internationally. Trillions of dollars. And by the way, the reason why this is happening is because it's politically expedient. You have an election coming up and to think that the politicians don't have influence over the Fed is ridiculous. So you don't want to be... You're not trying to run for office while your economy is tanking. So you're going to try and flare it up with a drop in rates. You were just so mad you said that. That's a fact. I mean, it's... Whoever's in office... Listen, I don't care if the Republican... It's not a fact. It's something that we strongly believe. No. We don't argue. No. It's on record where presidents will make statements. We'll push the Fed. We'll actually... They'll sandbag. They're not supposed to be able to put that way. You're right. It's supposed to be... And the laws are in place to keep it separated that way. And so even if they are, there's no quote-unquote proof.  Well, the Fed... I mean, it will be really interesting if... Because everything says that we shouldn't lower rates. Right? We have not. We have not. We... Before... That would be terrible. It would be terrible. That's why I get mad. That's what the whole point is to the way this conversation started is even if this realtor dork was right, I'm still... I'm still... So childish. I'm still mad that these guys and girls that are in this... Are perpetuating that message because, yeah, in the short term, it benefits their pockets because you're going to have all these people buying homes. But how small-minded are you to not be able to understand? And I saw Chris get on in there after I did and started jabbing at this person too. And he's like, this is why realtors should have to take courses in economics because the things that you're pushing, the things that you're hoping for, the things that you're trying to do, like you should understand the ramifications of that long-term. And if you get a bunch... If everybody does run in and buy again in December, January and February, do you guys really understand how not good that is? Right. Like that's not... Even if the few people that bought, they get equity in that year, you think that's a good... Listen, I see it... Short-term gains... I see it... Long-term problems. The incentives across the board are not there to allow prices to fall, even with regular homeowners. I see this with my own parents. My parents, honest, hardworking people, not big investors. My dad had no education. My mom just went to high school. That's all she did. They worked hard. They saved their money. Okay, that's it. Even my dad, he'll come over and he'll look at me and he'll be so excited.  Do you know how much it sold? Proud because he knows his home is going up in value because that is his retirement, essentially. Yeah. He has a pension, but other than that, his wealth is his home. I know. A lot of homeowners are in that situation. Most Americans. If you look at wealth and then you take out their homes, most people have it even. Oh, yeah. The stats you see on millionaires, people don't understand that like, I think 80% of that is in home. Technically, my parents are millionaires because of the house that they own is worth so much. Yeah, that's right. That's how most are. Like when you look at the stats on how many millionaires there are in the United States, I forget what I want to say. It's like 80%. Maybe Doug, in fact, checked me. It's like 80% of that is within like, yeah, home equity. So it's like, you got a property 30, 40 years ago. People earn a million dollars versus have 80 million dollars in their property that they live in. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a crazy discrepancy. No, it's wild. Anyway, I saw something funny on X yesterday. It was so, it wasn't the actual post itself wasn't funny, but there was comments underneath it that were killing me. Okay. They were killing me. So there's this young lady. She's probably, so I don't remember who shared it. I want to say, I don't remember. Someone shared it. I follow some like, like pages that comment on social commentary and stuff like that. And it went viral. So this young lady, she looks like Gen Z. So she's probably early 20s and she's talking to the camera. It's like a TikTok video and she's like, you know, I live in East LA and it's this kind of artsy, whatever she says in the video. And I've been on dates, you know, with a lot of the men and women. So apparently she dates everybody, whatever. And she's like, and you know, I always off, we always split the bill and we're always very equitable.   He's from this part of LA. I guess she was talking about a part of LA where the dudes are more like an old school or whatever. Is there a part of LA? I know. I'm like, really? County or something.  And she's like referring to him as she goes and we go out to eat. And as soon as the bill arrives, he slaps his credit card down. Then we go get drinks. He's paying for everything. Finally, he's going to the bathroom and I'm ready to pay for the next round of drinks. He's already paid for everything. And he looks at me and he gives me his credit card. He goes, here, get us whatever you want. I'll be right back. And she starts giggling and she's like, like, in other words, like, she's falling for this guy. Like, oh my God, I loved it. It was so good, right? So the comments underneath are so funny. Like somebody said, somebody said underneath said, wow, he helped her reset the factory settings.  She's like, I really liked that. This is really nice. The comments were, oh, they were killing me. They're like, oh, when the feminism leaves the feminist, somebody wrote or whatever. I was like, oh my God. They were brutal, bro. It was so funny. Funny things as far as on the internet, right? I saw the one that Jackie shared I thought was hilarious, which has actually got a bunch of controversy and stuff around it too, which I think is really interesting. So a mother has a daughter who has got a school bully who is stealing her lunch every day and taking it. And I guess the mom went to the school and complained this and that. They didn't do anything. They didn't do anything. They didn't do anything.  And so of course, as a frustrated mom, like, no, my daughter's not lying to me. She's lying to me every day. So her mom was like, all right. So she puts laxatives in the food and then gives her kid like school, like lunch money to buy lunch after the fact.  Like a Macaulay Culkin movie. Oh, so good. And so of course, like, you know, multiple days in a row, this kid's rushing to the bathroom afterwards. Well, gets out, right? This story gets shared.   Bullshit, dude. Kid stole the food.  Look, I see both sides of this. First of all, as a parent, someone's bullying my kid. I know how I feel. Yeah. So I get it. Like I'm not saying I would do the right thing. I wouldn't do it, but at the same time, I could argue the opposite.  Why did he take the lunch? Learn your lesson, shithead. Like you shouldn't be taking a little girl's lunch. Why did he take the lunch? You're lucky it was just a diarrhea pill and it wasn't something else. Laxatives can be dangerous, bro, for kids. It can cause a lot of issues.  Like you don't know what's in there. Yeah, I know. I know. Did you hear the difference? So this all went viral. There's people on both sides just like you're saying right now. And did you hear the way they said to defend it? They said that all she has to say is that my daughter has been complaining of, you know, digestion and stomach issues. So I have been giving her laxatives to help her out. And she didn't even admit that. Like, honestly, it's like, it's not his property.  Yeah, I don't know, Sal, you're smoking if you're defending that side at all. Listen, listen. Okay. I don't know how old, how old is it? Can six years old? Six years old can act shitty. Okay. Now I get it. Is it? I thought it was older. It's older than that. That's kind of changed. Bro, six-year-old. Even 12-year-olds, 13-year-olds can act really shitty. Let's find out what the age is. Well, that makes a big difference. But imagine, listen, listen, you guys, imagine, we have a good friend. I'm not going to say his name. We have a good friend who's an honest, hard-working, does it say how old the kid was? Looking for it right now. Okay. We have a friend of ours. I'm not going to say his name on Eric's. I don't want to air anything out. But we all know him very well. He's a good guy. He's a good, honest man. He has kids. He tries to raise them right. He recently took his kids all their electronics away for, I think it was three months. Do you know why?  Okay. That's his daughter. Okay. So you could be a great dad.   Bro, it doesn't change. I'm a great dad. My son, I think he's a great kid. Yeah. My son bullying a little girl, taking her lunch, gets laxatives. And you know what I say to him?   Yeah, exactly. Because you're eating somebody else's... Six years old. Six years old, guys. Does it say six? Six-year-old, man. Yeah, it does say six, yeah. You guys, that's fucking... That is different. Yeah. Okay, so is it really six years old? Yeah. That's what it says. Okay, so that's a different story. My opinion changes. That is a different story. No, six years old. I thought it was like 12 or 13, you know, and that ranges to me. That's... You're formed into... You know who's... By the way, you know who got... Who's like, has lessed the conversation. We're not even talking about it. Oh, yeah. The real issue is why, if the mom told the school... No intervention. Nothing happened. This poor kid was being, you know... I do want to admit though, six years old makes a big difference. Yeah. Because you're talking about such an early age. Yeah, what if you're six-year-old kids, like taking some of the kids' toys, you know what I mean? Yeah.  No, no, no. I think the cut-off is about 10 or 12. You're doing that around 10 or 12, you should know better. I'm serious. I don't disagree with that. 10 or 12. Look. Six years old is really young. It's getting...  But at that age, like... I mean... At that... Okay, if that's happening to... I'm more interested in confronting. Yeah. Not doing this, like, sneaky... Yeah, fucking... That's what I'm saying. Okay, you're right. At that age, I'm coming down to the school and I'm going to confront the parents of the kids, the six-year-old. Yeah. Because at that... And I would want that as... Like, because you're right. I'm not going to take it out on a kid. Yeah, because maybe my... Like, imagine, my son could do something like that just not knowing better. Right. Not knowing better, thinking that he just can, right? Who knows? A parent to come to me at that young of an age. But he's... He's 10, 12. You know what I would be more happy with? I would be more happy with the mom putting laxatives in the school administrators. That's where I would be a little bit more like, oh yeah, okay. Yeah, damn. Six is early, bro. Six is early.  And I'm telling you, it's dangerous. Laxatives can be dangerous, especially to kids. That's early. Sure. Even if it's not that, that's still a little early. Because it's like, man, six-years-old, kids are...  Kids are still figuring things out at that age. I mean, that's like... But look, I'm going to tell you something right now. A little kid can be flirting with her. You know what that means. Listen, you're right. Listen, but I understand, like again, as a father, I've had situations where my kids had another kid bully them. And my instinct that comes out is, if I were to act on my instinct, I would smack the other kid. Like, how terrible would that be? I show up and smack a 10-year-old across the face, right? I wouldn't do it. But the instinct I feel inside is like, you made my kid cry.  I get it, but you can't do that. No, six years old too young, bro. I mean, I agree. That's what... I told you guys about the time my sister got bullied. When I was in high school, I was a junior or a senior and she was in eighth grade. And she got jumped by like three girls and then they terrorized her and might... She wouldn't tell me about it and neither would my mom because I knew I'd overreact. Sure enough, I find out. And I told my sister to call the girl out after school and then to page me. Back then, we had pagers. And I rolled up. Number one. I rolled up to the junior high. You rolled up to what? A bike? No, my car. I was... I must have been a senior. Oh, you're in high school. High school. Oh, oh, oh. So these are... How old are you in eighth grade? 13? You're like 13. So these are 13-year-old kids. I'm like 17 or 18, okay? And I roll up with all my cousins, all my buddies. We drive up and there's this group of girls waiting for my sister to come out. I wave so my sister sees me. She comes out. I tell her to point out the girl.  I'm a man at this point. Scared. And I told the girl to point out her boyfriend because I felt like this would be a little bit better. She pointed at her boyfriend.   And then we left. And I never... Nothing ever happened to me. But that was my... So I understand this mom is all I'm trying to say. I get it wrong. I feel like there's a lot of bad ideas coming out today. Just people who are listening don't do any of this stuff, okay? How do these end, you guys? Hey, let's talk about a good idea. You know what I just read? It's your good idea. You know what I just read about red light therapy? Okay, so I was doing the red light earlier. Okay, good. I haven't done it for a while. Went in there, did some red light. And every time I stand in front of it, like part of me is like, is this like... If I look into it or whatever... It's healthy to the eyes. I asked. They actually did studies on it. Yes, it's good for the eyes. Now they did studies where the eyes were closed. So the red light does penetrate to a point past the eyelids. But they improve the health of the eyes and they improved vision. So this is why I thought it was interesting why some of them include the goggles? Goggles are like, yeah. Because I remember when it first came out, I remember asking that because you're supposed to do that when you go to like a tanning bed. Right. Because that isn't good for you. Yeah, maybe they initially thought there was some kind of damage or something long-term. Well, I think it's so bright. You're probably better off not looking directly into it because the brightness itself... It doesn't bother my eyes at all. It doesn't? No, no. It doesn't bother my eyes at all to look at it. It doesn't... It's not the same kind of bright. Well, the point is the studies I read were not eyes open looking at it. They were eyes closed, but then the red light is... It does penetrate past the skin of the eyelid. And it improved people's eye health and vision. Crazy. I mean, it makes sense, right? For all cells, it can affect. That's right. Any cell that has mitochondria, which is all of them, it's going to improve the health of mitochondria. It's going to improve the health. Do you believe... Okay, so obviously we're fans of the red light. We would obviously wouldn't have partnered with you if we didn't. We talked about how blown away we were back then. We didn't believe it.  Do you think that... Because it seems like they continue to have more and more studies to support all these... I mean, everything from skin to metabolically to eye health to hair to... Insulin sensitivity. Yeah. I mean, dude, does it get to a point where we start to install these into homes and you have rooms that you just... I mean, because you could work and do stuff in it. I mean, obviously it makes kind of a red hue, but it doesn't mean you can't do stuff, right? Like, why would you not start... The market for red light therapy has already exploded because the cost of good red light therapy has come down. It used to be, not that long ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the only people that could afford to buy the kind of red light that was in the studies were people who had $50,000, $100,000 to invest. So you would go to a salon and they would have them and you'd see them at salons. But then companies like Juve came out and you're not paying $50,000 for a panel. It's affordable, most people could afford one. And so, yeah, it's exploding. In fact, if you... I don't know if you could find the data on red light therapy, like the market for it and how much it's exploded, but I think it's exploding. Yeah, it's interesting to think, because if you look at the workplace and you look at where... how it's all been formed into us staring at a computer screen and sitting down. I think they got rid of most cubicle setups and they've tried to make it more open space and they've learned a little bit from that in terms of having more community and not being isolated and in this tight conform. But the next level to that would be to have a room like that. I would think maybe you work in there for 10 minutes or something and then the next shift kind of comes in and at least you get some benefits while you're forced to be like sort of in this conform space. I mean, I would love my shower area that way. There you go. Look at that. I'm in there. What does that say? Wow. There's like a 4.1% growth year over year. Now, what year does that start? 2020. What was the sales per year there? 288 million in 2021, 313 million. Wow. It's exploding. 4% growth year over year is massive. Yeah. I would convert my bathroom. That's what I would do. Just have an actual... Yeah, like the whole bathroom would close it. The amount of times that I'm in there for a shower or restroom, it just, that would be the lot. And it doesn't... Like you don't need... Like you're never doing like work or watching TV or doing something like that in the bathroom. So I feel like you like to having that color. You do work, but you know. Yeah, different kind of work. Yeah. But I mean, think about the amount of time that you're in there. I shower every day, at least twice a day. So there's, you know, 15 minutes each time. I forgot that about you. 30 minutes. You go to the bathroom. You shower again. You know, at least every guy, every dad escapes to the bathroom at least 23... Yesterday if I... Bro, that's such a sore spot. Can you not talk about that? Bro! I'm gonna... Dude. Why did you get in trouble for this recently? What do you mean recently? Always. I know. Katrina, like, I got mad every other day because it's like... A lot of times when I first get home, especially if I come home from traffic or something like that, I get home from work. It's like, and that's the first thing I want to go do. I go upstairs to our bathroom, away from everybody else and close the door. And it's like it never fails.  Honey! Honey! And I'm like, Leave me alone for 15 minutes! You know what? You know what's funny though? Let me ask you guys this. I didn't realize as much that part of it was that, like a break. I just did that. It never was until I became a dad. It wasn't until I became a dad. It became that as a... Once I became a dad, it became like a safe space. You just can't escape anywhere. It used to be like yard work or something. I'll do that sometimes, but I'm like, the weather's not great or whatever. The safe place is always a bathroom. You just know like, Oh, gross.  I'm like, yeah, it's gross. It's terrible. Got my own sanctuary. That's terrible. Anyway, So I was in conversation with the guys at NED because just spoiler alert, we're working on something that might drop in the future. Yeah. When is that coming out? By the way, where is it? I'm not going to... Is it in here? Is it in here? I'm hoping... I don't think so. Yeah, no, we got it. Yeah. In the next few months. I've actually really enjoyed it. So you know what I like about them? They're so far above and beyond with other companies and products because they understand not just cannabinoids. First off, most companies understand CBD. They don't understand CBC, CBG and all the other cannabinoids. But they understand all the cannabinoids. Plus they understand how they all work together. Plus they understand the involvement of terpenes. Terpenes are what give hemp and cannabis its smell. And I've talked about this before on the show that it's probably the terpenes for people who smoke weed or have cannabis. It's probably not the sativa or indica that's making one make you feel like your couch lock. The other one give you energy or whatever. It's probably the terpenes and how they interact with cannabinoids.  These are all based off the terpenes. When you ingest or burn terpenes or whatever in combination with cannabinoids, they produce different effects. And I know that what's cool about these guys is they have a certain product with a specific goal and they're talking about the terpenes that they want in there because that's what they do. And so they just, they kill it, man. I had the opportunity obviously being in the space as early as I was to see a lot of companies up and coming. And there's only two companies that have impressed me like to this level. And one was Dosis and the other one is Ned. That they were this far ahead of everybody else of actually paying attention to this research as it was coming out and actually starting to create products and see the difference like with the terpenes that you're talking about. Like that was something nobody talked about. No one talked about that in the space until Dosis and Ned. Those are the only two that I had ever seen that actually were evaluating that in the decision of like, oh, what's, what strain should we put in this one? Replicate it and formulate it. So it was like scientific. It was just like, oh, this is a, I don't know, Captain Crunch, whatever, like name strain that they came up with. And by the way, I noticed that about myself a long time ago, just with cannabis, that there's a certain strain type and it has a specific smell that would produce anxiety with me, no matter what. And then I thought it was the strain, but now I know it's a smell. So if I smell something and I smell it, and I know this is going to make me anxious. Well, yeah, anecdotally, I think wheat smokers have known this for a long time. Everybody has their favorite strain, you know what I'm saying?  But the terpenes are what give the smell. By the way, terpenes are found in lots of other plants too. For example, limonene, I think is the name of it. It's a terpene that is uplifting. It's found in lemon. Sour-D. And lemon. Sour-D I think has. Yeah, it has that. Limonene and there was something else, pineal. I think it might be the other one that's in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure. Interesting. That's a popular one. It was huge. It's always been. I mean, I think that that, so that was like the kind of like uplifting and you know, you get the laughing and energy type of feel from it. And then the other end of the spectrum will be something like a GDP, right? Would be the opposite, which would have the kind of heavy sedative type of feeling that's more recovery, relax, all that, which is, you know, granddaddy purple, those two, I feel like were the two polar opposite ones. All right, so we're going to do a shout out to somebody that we've talked about before, but the reason why, well, he's got a new book. So let's talk about that first. So it's Ben Greenfield. His book is Boundless Kitchen. Love the guy. Great guy. Super smart. Doug, that book you, now what it's bound, so I'm assuming Ben Greenfield, he's going to write about foods.  But also in terms of their value, kind of bio-optimized. Yeah. So I think all the recipes are designed to be healthy. Yeah. But he has a lot of recipes that kind of satisfy that, you know, desire you have for say fried food or desserts and things like that. Interesting. For example, I'm just looking through his book right now. I haven't actually done any of these yet, but they look very, very good. Crunchy Chicken Cracklins. That sounds interesting. Oh, okay. He has a reverse sear, ribeye, southern buttermilk, mostly guilt-free fried chicken. Wow, mostly.  He has a mino jelly. Oh, jello. Sorry. Deep Sleep Gummies, homemade. Oh, wow. What are the ingredients for that? That's cool. What do the deep sleep gummies have? Let's see here. Lavender. One cup. I'll just give you the ingredients. Tart, cherry juice. Anti-inflammatory. Lessethane, honey, gelatin powder, adaptogen of choice, probably Ashwagandha. Ashwagandha or something like that. CBD. Okay. And powdered glycine, which is optional. Oh, yeah. Yeah, glycine helps you sleep, too. Yeah, so I think it's a very interesting little book. I think I'm going to try some of these, actually. Interesting. It looks really well done, too, huh? Yeah. It's fantastic. Anyway, you guys see the video of him on social media?  Injecting his balls? Oh, I don't know.  Yeah, I think he's injecting it. You're getting the pee shot. No, it's his balls. No, it was a prostate. Did you not read it? What did it say? Oh, I thought it was a prostate. His balls? I thought maybe not. Maybe you're right. I don't know. Well, we went from coffee enemas to a pee shot. I mean, is that worse or better than his pee pee? What would you rather get a needle in your wing or in the frame or the beans? If I had to choose?  Definitely the beans, not the frame. What? Bro, if I flick you like this. I feel like I'm with you. I don't want to mess with my main performer. Yeah, but which one's going to hurt more? One of them I could live without. The other one I can't. I'm like, I can't live without my main performer. So then I'm more protective of that. I'm talking about a painful pain. I got two balls. If one of them doesn't work for that, we're okay. You're like, what's his name? Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong. No, no, no. I'm talking about from a pain perspective. Come on.  I'm sure. Yeah. Either way. I'm glad we're having this conversation. Yeah, you're welcome, Doug. You got it, by the way.  You imagine that? You're sitting there. Your doctor comes in. It's not working.  It's never anybody you're excited about. That's what I'm saying. Never know. I told you about the Turkish guy. Yeah. It's always that guy. Yeah, it's always that guy.  Sausage. Hairy hair. Sausage. It's not some Swedish model. I'm here to rub your Novocaine on your nuts. We ran out of the XXX gloves. Sorry, I got to use my bare hands. But I washed them. Don't worry. Yeah. Anyway, Bertha comes in. Yikes. Probiotics now have been long known to be beneficial for help. Digestion, inflammation, skin health, and much more. There's a company out there called SEED. They're the world's leader in the technology around probiotics. They're the world's best probiotic hands down. If you want to use a probiotic and you want to get all the amazing benefits that you see in the studies, go with SEED. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump.  All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Kerry from Canada. Hey, Kerry. How can we help you? Hey, guys. First, I want to do the obligatory thank you. Well, first of all, I'm super nervous. I'm just going to read what I wrote. I've been listening to Mind Pump for over four years, and I always learn something and laugh at something in every episode. So even though you've ruined every other podcast for me, you brought me a lot of joy and a lot of value. So it's worth it. So thank you guys. Oh, thank you. All right. So I have a question about getting the most out of a long-term, low-volume daily lifting routine. I'll tell you a bit about my background and my current situation, and then I'll go into my question. So my background, I started lifting 12 years ago when I was 25 to counteract the catabolic effects of my daily one and a half hour bike commute. As soon as I started lifting, I knew I'd never stop, and I've been a lifestyle lifter ever since, working out to support my physical and mental health. I don't pursue aggressive aesthetic or athletic goals, but I like to feel strong and I try to push myself when I can, always aiming for progressive overload in some form. My current situation is for the past few years, life's been more stressful, and pushing myself has gotten harder. I'm also not 25 anymore, so committing to 20 to community to hour-long workouts that I might not be able to properly recover from and need to plan my day and my week-around has gotten less and less feasible for me. I've purchased 10 MAPS programs, and I really want to do them all. I've finished anabolic in performance, and I really like them, but right now the only program I've seen to be able to follow consistently is MAPS 15. My work is demanding, and the only way I can guarantee I won't miss a workout is by doing it first thing in the morning before I can get sidetracked by deadlines. My daily workout is essential for my sanity, but I need to keep workouts short and low volume where I start my day physically taxed and stressed about time. I've done MAPS 15 and MAPS 15 advance twice each in the past year, and I love how they make me feel. After a summer of travel and inconsistent workouts, I've just started MAPS 15 advanced again. And my question is, I know the golden rule of strength and hypertrophy training is that everything works, but nothing works forever. So I'm wondering what I should do after finishing this round of MAPS 15 besides just going back and do it again. What can I do to maintain effective and varied programming within my time and energy constraints? Can I modify exercises in MAPS 15 to train other skills and modalities? Is it possible to make effective low volume daily versions of other MAPS programs I've been wanting to do, MAPS old time or MAPS strengths? I'd love to have some programming suggestions so I can keep this workout schedule working for me and avoid hitting a plateau or falling into a rut. What a great question. Great question. And thanks for the context. That made a big difference. And you're so spot on already. You've already figured out your body and what's working for you and the fact that you own 10 programs already. You have this perfect amount of types of exercises that we have specific adaptations that we're trying to accomplish that you can pull from. And you can literally build it as if it was like a MAPS 15-20 style. So, you know, for example, like you brought up like strong, like there's windmills in there, right? It's a very unique exercise. Nothing stops you from pulling something out of MAPS 15 that you've already done, you know, for the last year to two years consistently and say, you know what, I'm going to put MAPS, I'm going to put windmills in now because I want to have some better rotational strength there. Or let's say you take something from MAPS performance, you're like, you know that matrix lunge, I don't really do anything, you know, laterally. I focus everything in the sagittal plane. So I want to do something that, so I have some lateral stability and strength. So I'm going to put the matrix lunge in there. I'm going to pull out the traditional squats. Like I think you have figured out what works really well for your body as far as the amount of volume that you absolutely can continue to see gains and strength by doing exactly what you're kind of thinking about already. Now, Kerry, the context helped a lot. So workout programming can seem simple, but there's a lot of variables to consider. So one question you had was, can I just take other programs and break them up into small chunks? You know, but when you do them one day after another, it does change the the programming to the point where it might actually make the workout need to change or it doesn't work anymore. I'm trying to figure out how to make it effective. Right. So with maps 15, the advanced version even, here's an easy way for you to modify it. You could break each movement down into a squat type movement. This is all types of squats. Back squats, front squats, split stand squats, which are all lunges, lateral type squats. Those are all squatting movements. There's hip hinging movements, all kinds of deadlifts, single leg toe touches, stiff legged deadlifts, good mornings, like they all qualify in that category. You have overhead pressing type movements, all the exercises under that, horizontal pressing movements, all the movements that are under that, rowing movements, all the exercises under that. And then what you could do is you could swap out an exercise. So if maps 15 calls for a barbell squat, and this is your fourth time through, you could switch it out for another squat type movement. It could be a lunge, it could be a front squat, it could be a Bulgarian split stand squat, for example. You could do the same thing with the hip hinge, the overhead presses, the rows, the horizontal presses, the rotation, and so on. So that's a very easy way to change the workout as you continue to cycle through this style of programming, which seems to be perfectly appropriate for you. I think you need to stay this way. Okay. Okay, cool. So, you know, I've been doing this for a long time. Like the day you launched it, I got super excited and bought it immediately, and I'm not quite sure what to do with it now. Do you guys have any recommendations for turning that into like a daily program? Like a 20, 30 minutes a day kind of program? We'd have to break it up. I'd have to really look at it, and it would take some thought. But you would still apply kind of what Sal is saying, is that you would take one of those, I would probably categorize the windmill into like a hip hinge movement. Yeah. And so it would replace like a deadlift or a single-leg toe touch or a movement like that. So you still would follow the way, instead of looking at old-timey, oh, I want my program to be like that, how do I make it into a Math 15? Think of Math 15 is the protocol and how you follow. And then look at the exercises that are in the other programs and how to switch them out for Math 15. Math 15 is your blueprint. You have figured out that that amount of volume is now all you need to figure out is some of the movements in old-timey interest you. Yeah. What can I replace that? Yeah, and it's kind of tough. That's a tough program to use as an example because it really is about the skill of these like unique movements. And so like we actually had to reverse engineer a lot of those skills and bring it all the way to like the very turn and then, you know, pragmatically take you like one step at a time to progress. So you could take one of those movements is my point to this and like basically put that into your 15-minute protocol and take it at the very beginning.   So you would start with that and then progress it as the program kind of lays out. But in, you know, at the same time you want to also like structure the rest of your workout just like Maths 15 already has laid out. So that would just be like one portion of that that you would alter. An easy way for us to solve this to help you is actually to put you in the form. You already have 10 programs. So you have plenty to pull from and the best thing to do is like, hey, you guys, I'm thinking about pulling this exercise out of 15 and replacing it with this from old time. If you're not sure and we'll, and you can tag us and we'll answer. Oh, wow. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that'll just make it easy. I mean, we're going to put you in there. I'll have Doug put you in the form for free. And then when you are building your routine, like literally just, hey, if you don't know, right, there might be some that are obvious, right? You might go, oh, obviously I could take this overhead press out and I could put a z-press in because it's so similar enough that I get it, but you are going to have some movements to Justin's point in old time where you're like, well, what should I replace? I think there's very few. Actually, I think most of the movements in there will make sense to you. Like there's one handed deadlift is a hip hinge. Yeah. You know, a bent press you could probably put in either as a hip hinge or as an overhead press, depending on what the programming looks like for maps 15. That would be a challenging one. C-Saw, I mean, that's an overhead press or a pressing kind of vertical pressing movement. You just need to do phase one. There's like what, six phases or so? So you just start the version of it in phase one and then kind of work your way through. Yeah. But in the forum, if you're in the forum and you're communicating with us, we'll build it together with you. Because we're not looking at it right now, it's a little bit difficult for us to be, oh, put this here and do that there. But if you go through it and you're like, hey, okay, I get what you guys are saying, I'm going to follow the maps 15 basically protocol and I just want to start to integrate some of these movements for old timing, literally just run it by us and we'll tell you if that's a good idea or not. Okay, that's great. Yeah. Because I've been working out for so long and I've tried so many different moves and sometimes I just don't know if something is, if I'm progressing or not. Like, because I've done a lot of things before. I think this was the reason why I was so interested in doing the old time one. Like, I, you know, switch the overhead press for Z press or switch a squat for Bulgarian split squat, things like that. Like, I do that all the time and sometimes I just don't know if it's working or not. So, yeah, that's why I was looking for some feedback. Because, yeah, I just, depending on the situation, like, sometimes I'm traveling, I have to modify the way that I do my workout, I have to modify the equipment that I'm using and and I keep doing the kind of the same program plugging in different movements and I'm just trying to figure out how to optimize the effectiveness. Yeah, well, you just make sure you do that and you string it like three to four weeks. So, if you do those swap outs so you give yourself a chance to kind of get good at those movements. That's a great point. And, Carrie, I want you to trust your intuition a little more based off of what you're saying. I know, you're on track. Yeah, I mean, based off this conversation, I think you've got a pretty good grip on what's working for you.  I've noticed that working out a little every day is good for my mental health, for my stress. It's not too much volume. It gives me the energy that I need. Like, that's your body telling you, like, this is what you need to do. So, I think that's the protocol for you until your lifestyle changes and the context changes. I think continue on that, you know, two or three exercises a day type of protocol until things radically change and then you need to change the workout. But for now, that's it. Okay, great. So, just keep on swapping in similar things from different programs. Okay, great. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you in the forum, Carrie. Before seeing you guys in the forum. Bye. I tell you that that MAPS 15 format I think is probably the It's going to be the best, most appropriate mainstream format for people. It's game changer and it's like people are just now kind of like figuring that out. You know what I think we're finding, which is really interesting, which I think this was by accident. I don't think when we were, we thought of a lot of things when we were building it, right? But one of the things that I think we underestimated is the amount of stress outside of exercise that people have in their lives today versus say 20 years ago. It's more than we thought. It is. I think it's, and I think that's why we're seeing such huge responses from people going, oh my god this program is amazing and so many people thought it wasn't enough volume that are seeing huge gains from it is just because I don't think people are factoring in all the other stress they got going in their life as something that could be hindering their progress. 100% and the data on strength training is clear. It's like fatigue reduces the effectiveness of strength training's primary goal which is to build strength. Unless you're looking to build endurance, fatigue is the enemy and I think the average most people, I'm going to make the argument now that most people are going to be better off doing a little every day than a lot some days. And it also simultaneously fits people's schedules better anyway. So this format this maps 15 format which you can interchange exercises and intensity and all that stuff. I think that's the format of the future for the average for most people. She's on to go with the way that she's approaching it. Our next color is Crystal from Arkansas. Hey Crystal how can we help you? Hey guys good morning. Y'all hit your protein goal this morning because I'm coming for you with a lot of questions. Oh, man. I'm good. I've got everything. Make them good, let's hear them. Okay, so I'm a personal trainer. I have a garage gym. This is where I train all my clients. I run about 22 clients in here. My big question right now is last year I jumped into powerlifting just because I really think as a trainer you just grow a ton more when you throw yourself in the situation. So jumped in it, set a few stay record and got hooked of course. Couldn't walk away. Yeah. So I just set two bench press records in two different federations and I feel like I want to take a little bit of a break from powerlifting and I might want to jump into bodybuilding next year just to grow more. Just not so much as that's where my interest is just so much as I can grow more as a trainer jumping into something like that. I haven't fully pulled the trigger because my last powerlifting was a lot harder than I wanted it to be and mentally it was more than I signed up for. So I had to drop weight classes last second. So I haven't fully committed to the bodybuilding trigger yet but my question here is where do you guys, what program do you feel like I should be running while I'm making that choice? Like I'm just struggling right now where I should be and what I should be doing because I haven't pulled the trigger in either way and so my workouts are just kind of mainly powerlifting based because that's where I've been sitting for the last you know six months but I bought the RGB bundle for the Black Friday program so I've just been kind of playing around with some of those but I haven't committed to any of those either. I just wanted to talk to you all and see which all I should be running for now until I kind of pull the trigger on bodybuilding. I think the RGB bundle is perfect. I think that's exactly I mean I don't think that's exactly what I did to get ready for a show and the way I treated it was anabolic and performance was off-season so while I'm trying to build, build the metabolism, build as much muscle and then aesthetic was getting ready for prep. So that's kind of how I I think you might really benefit from map symmetry. If you've been doing powerlifting for so long the because it's so bilateral I think a unilateral based program might give you the balance that'll really help a lot with your stage presentation with you know balance in the body. Symmetry would be another option. The most important thing, especially considering you're a trainer heading into the the idea of potentially competing is going to be all diet. Like you're like as far as programs like that's a great suggestion that Sal said. There's a lot of different combos that you can do. Map's aesthetic is designed to sculpt the physique but body-building shows are one in the off-season. How well of a job that you do of addressing any of your weak points right so any imbalances if you have overly developed shoulders compared to your hamstrings or whatever so looking at your body trying to be as symmetrical as possible and building muscle in those areas to balance it out but most importantly it's going to be understanding how to diet for a show. That's the hardest part and that's the part and where most people make a mistake clients and trainers and competitors is heading into a prep in a in a non-advantages metabolic position meaning you only eat 1900 to 2000 calories and you're at the you know 20% body fat range and you want to get ready for a show. Like that's just not a good position for a female to be at in the low you know under 2000 calories and over 20% body fat and getting ready to get on stage and then they're going right into a prep.  You're just not you're not going to be able to lean out as much as you need to be so getting yourself in a metabolic position where you're consuming 26 to 2900 sometimes 3000 calories I have some of my females eating in the off season so that when we get ready for a show I've got plenty of room to work with to keep you healthy and still cut calories if you and I get so many people that would want to hire me and I had the first question I was asking is where's your calories at right now and if they tell me things like oh I'm at 1900 calories and you're and you're at a you know 20% body fat range which is not a bad place but it's still a long ways from where we need to be for a stage that you're just too much do you know where you're at with that as far as like my calories yeah I really to be honest I don't pay attention to my calories I'm really just protein goal focus but I'm well over 2000 yeah I'm hitting my protein every day so I'm well over I'm probably 2500 a day to be strong like you are by the way what was your what was your record at 132 pounds what you said you hit records so I did two in two weeks I did the 142 pound class and I benched 137 pounds and then I did I dropped way into the 132 pound class and I benched I think it was 126 pounds that day I failed on 132 yeah you know what the two things I've obviously ran our power lift program my favorite things about running like a power lifting routine and my favorite things about running bodybuilding is the different things that I got as a coach and trainer from power lifting that sharpened my sword as for pro from a programming perspective like that when you the type of programming that you get from from power lifters and like ours that we have and what you learn from going through that that you you've experienced yourself is like really understealing understanding good detail program for bodybuilding it's all diet what I learned right that's right right now you actually have a winning physique on stage you already have it it's literally just carving it down to reveal all that hard work you've already put in so that what you're going to learn on the nutritional side going hands on like even all the knowledge had from books it doesn't compare to what I learned like going through it so that's and from a diet perspective I think that's the most the thing that you should focus on the most and you're going to get the most value from like as far as a coach and a trainer is the is nutrition manipulation like that's what I got from bodybuilding for sure 100% yeah that's totally my point of view is looking into it too and I mean I just learned I mean I just I feel like I grew so much as a trainer doing power lifting that I'm just like I'm eager to get more you know what I mean I'm like what else can I jump into I love going down that route I love that and I think that's a very healthy approach to going into something like a sport like that because that sport can be very unhealthy but going into it as the mindset of I'm going into to educate myself yeah it'll be great that's a good that's a very good mindset to go into something like bodybuilding for sure perfect perfect well thank you guys so like I should be running animal like in performance until I pulled a trigger and then jump into aesthetic and I'm ready to fret yeah I like that I'm gonna have I'm gonna I'm gonna have distance you have I think programs that are fine oh you know Sal did suggest symmetry would be a good I'll have Doug send you over symmetry so you have access to that symmetry is just a good idea to follow any after power lifting it's also great you you're a trainer it's a great program to have because it's all it's it's very very good for your clients to help them out with them imbalances so you'll learn a lot from having symmetry so I think that's a good value add and then are you Chris are you already signed up for the free three-day course that we're doing for trainers better off I am all right good girl all right we'll see you there perfect all right thanks guys thank you bye that's awesome yeah yeah I know you're right I mean if she's already been competing in powerlifting training that long she's strong she's got the muscle yeah I mean you can see on her build already like this I mean you know it's funny you know that's an area that I think the bodybuilders that are out there I mean that's how they market and sell themselves is that they have like this magical workout routine or like you know this hat it's like it's it's diet in that world it's diet in power lifting it is programming very much so programming like you can easily fuck up a powerlifting meat because you don't know how to program correctly you and you can easily have a shitty workout program and actually put together a pretty badass diet and have the best workout that's right you can have the you can have the most perfect progressively overloaded program and everything like that but you don't have a dialed in diet or you don't have a healthy metabolism going into it and you terrible our next caller is Zach from Ohio what's up Zach what up help you hey yeah thank you guys for taking my call this awesome to be with you and I'll get right in so my brother he's been preaching me about you guys for years and finally this summer I got hooked hooked and love love doing your stuff so so far run through anabolic I'm in the middle of performance right now most consistent I've ever exercised I'm loving everything right now especially just the love just lifting lifting weights seeing how heavy I could get but I'd also be lying if you know I wasn't hoping a few pounds would come off in the process so far and so far it's been I fluctuated consistently in about a five pound range would love to I'm about 230 right now 5 9 would love to lose about 30 pounds and I hear you guys talking a lot about reverse dieting but usually I hear it in the context of I don't know somebody wants to go from like 15% down to 10% or something like that so first off someone who is in more of my situation where it's like I think the scale I have says about 30% is reverse dieting still something that you do with that or do you just you know I don't know and kind of on top of that my situation is a little unique because I go to a school where all our meals are given to us so I don't really have dietary control I don't really have a way to count calories or anything like that I just I try to aim for about 200 grams of protein a day and that's about the the best I can kind of gauge right now but even that sometimes is hard to do just based on what's being served that day so yeah I just kind of wanted to get your y'all's thoughts on those kinds of things. Zach how are you hitting the 200 grams of protein if your meals are already prepared like what kind of control I guess do you have what are we working with? Yeah so I mean it's so we get three meals a day some days you know we'll start with like eggs, eggs and sausage you know lunch will be something like chicken dinner will be something meatloaf ribs maybe more chicken other days though it's like you're hoping it's like oatmeal well deli wraps for lunch and then dinners like lasagna so it's just every day is a little bit unique and I'm just kind of hoping so I have some protein powder okay yeah so protein powder is how you hit it. Yeah you're an example of someone who I would definitely utilize that as a tool. So here's the deal with reverse dieting the idea is with reverse dieting is to give yourself a calorie surplus an appropriate one to fuel a metabolism boost through muscle building and then from there get your metabolism or your calories to a point where you can safely cut from and end up in a sustainable place okay. I don't know how many calories you're eating now or where that looks for you and if you're comfortable cutting from there like if you feel like you could eat less than you are now and it's sustainable for you you could go on a cut and just see how you feel and take it from there because of the lack of control over your diet it's going to be a little bit more challenging so you know if I was in your situation I'm trying to think what would I do if I was in your situation well I okay I feel like too we might be missing something here too like you're you're in college do you say right you're in college so I'm school yeah so okay candy ice cream or beer what is it like what is it well hold on he says he's in a catholic seminar I don't think either or any of the hey we have a bar hey don't be fooled bro that's right catholic so what's one of the three or is it all three usually not ice cream usually not ice cream but I pretty much cut beer out as well candy though definitely you know that'll come up sometimes but in general I've done a decent job at cutting back on a lot of that stuff so tip and this is including myself in this category I when I what I tend to do is it's like the worst situation and it's in a lot of times it has to do because I just does this tidy signal that you get from protein the days that I over consumed calories are also the days that I miss my protein intake so like you listed a day that would be challenging right oatmeal lasagna and in like a wrap like that's low protein and a lot of carbohydrates right in that day and then that's the day also I eat the whole box of Mike and Iks that night you know I'm saying like that's so it's like a double whammy I over consumed calories and I miss my protein take a lot of times when someone is in a situation where they have they're limited to what they have access to food wise they're in college this is where the challenge becomes is one it's already you're already limited and then the day that you don't do a good job maybe hitting your protein take is also the day that you over consume on the sugars or alcohol or whatever it is right so I think really starting to peer into that I think something that will be super beneficial to you to ride the gates if you've never done it is to download an app like fat secret and just start inputting and you and just because you don't have a scale or maybe you don't have access to you can still get a good estimation of like what what you are consuming and many times just that awareness is enough to get you to kind of shift some of the habits and behaviors like you start to realize like oh wow it's like Adam was right like it's you know it's not that candy is making me fat or candy is not letting me get to my it's like literally I do it on the worst times and if I could just discipline myself to not allow myself to have the candy on the days I also miss my protein intake I think I would be in a better place and so I think that's a good place to start now the key with what Adam's saying is if you make some changes if you cut a few things out that you think you can cut out like candy for example or whatever is to do it consistently long enough so that you can start to see an effect because what people will do is they'll cut something out for a couple weeks not see much movement and throw it back in but it takes a lot longer than that so I mean you could do a very easy cut and what I mean by easy is a gradual one by simply removing you know the big offenders if you're looking at the diet and you're saying well today's a little zombie day instead of having two pieces I'll have one piece candy was the other example or whatever or just cutting the portions sizes down by maybe cutting out the non-essentials like carbohydrates and just doing it consistently and then see what happens see how your body responds but if you did it like that I think you would see a nice gradual loss in body fat and probably not much of a negative impact on your strength I mean that's exactly how I would see it when the options are not so ideal that's kind of just a natural signal for you to kind of lessen the portion or maybe not consume quite as much for that day but yeah to load up on your protein days as much as you can and just kind of undulate it like that as it presents itself are you studying to be a priest is that what you're going to school for? do you know Father Steve who works at Ward on Fire who produces the Ward on Fire podcast? I know of him I've never met him or anything but yeah he's the buffest priest I've ever know yeah I know I've listened to y'all's episodes with Bishop Barron and stuff and so those are great episodes you have access to a gym too and everything huh? we have a decent gym at the seminary and then also we have access to the local hospital gym we have a set for free so I would like to put you in our private form because we're like throwing a bunch of ideas and things like that and the truth is we just need to know more we need to know more for sure of what's going on because I mean not that this is you but you could show us your diet and it's like you're only eating 1500 calories and we're telling you to cut something out and that would totally change our advice or maybe we look in and we assess it and you're like you're actually missing your protein consuming like so or you have a tremendous amount of stress right now because it's finals and you got something going on like so there's a lot of other moving factors here and I think just having you having access to us to kind of keep us up to date I think the first step is to use the fat secret app and let's just start kind of getting an idea a better idea like than just like guesstimating or guessing what you're doing like let's get some tracking done in the fat secret app and that will give us a better insight on what's going on nutritionally to know like what direction to push you in whether I would say hey let's just cut some calories or hey let's add some food into your diet and do more of a reverse because I think your metabolism needs it Zach are you following some of our programs I see you wrote in your anabolic do you have any other programs that you're following yeah so I'm doing performance right now but yeah no I'm not doing anything outside of y'all stuff okay I saw you comment on wanting to power lift or maybe follow do you have that program I do not know all right I'll send that to you Zach so just pray for us huh absolutely I appreciate that especially Adam needs a lot of help we all need a lot of help so I appreciate that getting the forum and keep us posted I'd love to hear what's going on start tracking for me give me a little more insight and then I think we can give a little better direction than what we already did awesome appreciate it guys when we just reminds me when we went down to meet Bishop Barron I was so caught off guard by a Jack like Jack's body going to look imprised you know what I mean but of course I mean what was wild to me was actually that there was multiple what was the other guy that was super strong oh I forgot I know you're talking about real good dude too but they have a gym at this college that's so phenomenal I didn't even look further down I wish it was more like that the evangelical world I don't see that a lot a lot of snacks a lot of potlucks you know I actually really struggled with that not to go off on a tangent with like my religion journey or whatever but that you had these people that were professing all these things that they were doing in their life but yet really over consuming on the food and it's just like dude your body's your temple and there's an addiction there's an addiction there also if you're carrying yourself 50-100 pounds overweight like okay so you're pretty good you're faithful to your wife you're good to your kids and you pray every day but then you go and you binge you know what I'm saying there's a disconnect there for sure I really had a hard time reconciling that as a kid growing up our next caller is Kayla from Georgia Kayla how's it going hey how are you guys doing good how are you doing this is so awesome I just want you guys to know that I'm so grateful to be here today I rehearsed this in my head so many times today but you guys have changed my life before I found y'all I was like literally I had the worst eating disorder I was running miles and miles a day I was teaching workout classes and strength training and I was living on about 900 calories and I was also chain smoking oh man I just want you guys to know that today I actually quit smoking a couple weeks ago yeah today I'm at 4000 calories maintenance I've gained a ton of strength I've actually been able to do pull ups and right now I'm at 20 wow hold on hold on you can do 20 pull ups you can do 20, it's changed my life this is incredible wow killer I don't run anymore that's awesome good to hear, that's awesome thank you yeah I'm trying not to cry because you guys are awesome thank you and how can we help you Kayla well I live a very active lifestyle I'm always on the trail I do a lot of trail guiding especially like in the on the AT so the trail is really thick and rough and it's a lot of cardio and honestly it's really hard for me to keep up with not losing weight I love hiking and I usually take a break in the winter but when I start back up in the summer like with trail clearing and stuff like that I just need some way to be able to not kill myself but also continue strength training and hiking at the same time and just how can I take care of my body for longevity great question you know what's funny you're asking this question right now and I'm actually looking over at this package it's a friend of Sal's that we were considering investing in the company and there's a handful of scenarios that I could see it having tremendous value for somebody, you're an example of that like is that for sale, do you know if that's for sale? I don't know if it is yet for sale it's so exciting yeah so it's essentially it would be like something that you could take with you on these hikes that would be in a package easy to take and you can consume and eat while you hike and move, I'm sure you probably already have stuff like that that you bring I do I actually protein bars but honestly I really prefer not to, Creatures of Habit has been a lifesaver for me because I can keep it fresh on the trail and that's been awesome, jerky but I tried to stay away from processed stuff so yeah I mean so how much activity are you actually doing so how many miles or what's the distance look like and right now it's close to about 10 a day or 10 every time I do my trail guiding trips sometimes it'll be 5 but it's the terrain that is so intense like climbing basically like some areas you've got to have like a rope and stuff to get through how thick it is so it may be 10 miles but it's like 10 miles of that now it makes sense how you're eating 4000 calories, that's going to be like there's no way you're eating that much but now it makes a lot of sense and your strength is phenomenal incredible it is insane guys I didn't think I could ever get there in my life I used to be so weak that's awesome so I would say this while you're in season like this while you're doing so much of this hiking I would do a basic traditional strength training workout maybe once a week at most or like a maps 15 yeah maps 15 would be good too where you're doing a few exercises a couple of exercises a day but even just once a week on your day off, if you have a day off I would go to the gym and I would do like four compound lifts and the goal is really to try to maintain the strength that you have then when you go off season that's when you really try to build and try to gain if you try to gain while doing that much hiking you're going to bump into just too much stress on the body you're going to bump into it's going to overwhelm your body's ability to recover and even if she could physically handle all that she'd always probably she'd probably run into a digestive issue just trying to eat 5000 calories in order to sustain that's probably where you're probably at a place right now eating that much where it's just tough to get anymore which is why I brought up that company I know it's we haven't invested them yet but it's a really interesting product because of how small these little it's little cubes and they're extremely like gummies yeah they're little gummies and they're very very dense high protein high calorie Doug says it is for sale it's called get me po.com yeah no affiliation affiliation whatsoever yeah I think one day a week of strength training would be perfect like literally four compound lifts that's it yeah that is so exciting I'm actually going to be able to survive the next tough season that's incredible guys now when you go off season Kayla that's when you can follow one of our programs and that's really yeah and really focus on building you know muscle and strength to carry through the next season but once a week will be plenty in the context of what you painted thank you so much that's such a relief yeah you got it you got it also do it now what programs are you because you said you mentioned anabolic and performance anabolic has been incredible for me though it's been the best performance was a lot so MAPS 15 is going to be great because MAPS 15 is just a shortened version of MAPS you know what I like for you too Kayla it's MAPS power lift in your off season would you be interested in doing like a power lifting workout in the off season yeah you get so much strength potential I think that's a great that would be amazing we'll send that to you no you guys don't have to do that I'd rather support you guys and pay for it myself you just did with everything you said you're a walking billboard so that's what you're doing yeah no no we'll send that to you we appreciate the support yeah thank you so much and appreciate your energy thank you so much thank you great oh that's so cute I mean the truth is you change somebody that radically and that's what I mean remember having clients like this right I mean Matt you running like crazy you've got a borderline eating disorder you're eating 900 calories like weak probably he's barely functioning yeah and then 4000 calories 20 pull ups 20 pull ups you're tripping on that like you know it's just just for your average client average female client I've had like even just getting like two I don't think I've ever had a female client do 20 up no but she's she looks really petite she's obviously very strong for her body yeah strength of weight ratio and the fact that she's doing this kind of climbing and hiking she's getting lots of practice and that kind of movement so but she's obviously got some gifts right which I hope she listens to this because she has some gifts towards strength especially for her body weight that's why I wanted her to do powerlifting I bet she would crush in her weight class right if you like Mind Pump head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out some of our free fitness guides we have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal you can also find all of us on Instagram Justin is that mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is that mind pump Adam