Dr. Gertzegger, thank you so much for taking the time for this interview and first we'd like to know how do you think technology can create productive context for learning for children? I think it expands the range of what's possible. It allows kids to have access to domains and fields and subjects of study that wouldn't be possible otherwise. That allows them to create in ways that would be unimaginable just a few years ago. So you discussed in opening your speech, you said that school is technology, so what did you mean by that? I think the invention of school, the structure of it, the practices, the policies are associated with this model of a building with little desks and a big desk. As I said, 25 little desks, one big desk, where the teachers at the front of the room, where they're presenting some information, hoping the students are remembering it, and that, like all technology, that technology is subject to change, subject to question, to evolution, and that if we think of school as technology, we're in a position to be better prepared for that evolutionary change. And we can start thinking about what are the affordances and constraints of that technology, what are the benefits and consequences, what do we gain by having everyone in the room together at the same time, and how can we best take advantage of that opportunity, as opposed to using it in a way that sort of wastes the time of the children or the teacher and reproduces activities that you could do elsewhere or on your own more efficiently. Okay, so do you think if there was no internet, can learning survive without internet? Yes. So why do you think that? You said that information access is only a tiny part of the education process, so can you elaborate on that a bit? Well, that's always been the case, but because we're talking about ICT, and information is at the center of that, and we think of the internet as being all-encompassing, that it's worth making the point that people have always learned by having experiences. They've learned through apprenticeship, through being mentored, through collaboration, through direct experience with nature, or with technology or machinery or school or art materials, and that those experiences lead to the largest gains in knowledge. Information just sort of fills in those gaps. Now, school has traditionally been largely based on access to information. Even if the internet didn't exist, the textbook does, and some teachers have almost what I call a faith-based relationship with the textbook, that it's treated as scripture and they just sort of turn pages and dispense information. Well, we know that we can teach them, but they don't stay taught, that a lot of that stuff you were taught in school isn't ever used again, isn't remembered after the quiz, and so it's always been the case that there's been over-reliance on information when it comes to education, when the really powerful educational experiences, the really powerful learning occurs when you're actually doing something. And when you add the sort of adult and political hysteria associated with the internet to the equation, it becomes a very expensive, torturous process in schools where we're on the one hand telling children that this is preparing them for their future, and they know for a fact we're lying to them because it's not even preparing them for the present that exists outside the school. When I was here last year, I had trouble getting my email the entire time I was here. When I walked out to the Sook, and there's open Wi-Fi in the street. So, why can't you be unfiltered, open access to the internet in the street and not in a school where there's supervision, and adults who can help children make sense of the world and become more ethical and better citizens. So there's this conflict, schools get very flummoxed up and confused by the internet, probably because what the children have access to is respected and coveted by adults in ways that, while we traditionally provided children access to, they didn't feel the same way about. So let me explain it in a different way. Neil Postman once said that the only differences between childhood and adulthood is biology and access to information. The access to information children used to have was stuff we didn't care much about. Cricket, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Barbie, children stories, fables, legends. Well, now they might put you out of a job. They might say my teacher is no good and tell the world. They may say the government is corrupt. Well, that adds a different level of threat to the adults in charge. And eventually I think we'll find an equilibrium, but adults are behaving very badly when it comes to the internet. And as a result, I don't want that to impose itself upon all the wondrous things we can do with computers and schools that are non-controversial. So I don't want this temporary controversy to confuse us and detour us and derail us from doing the sorts of things we can do with computers that everyone would think was valuable. Programming, building robots, composing music, creating animation, telling stories, taking photographs, making movies, creating simulations, conducting science experiments, writing. That's all incontrovertible. It's all without controversy and viewed as valuable, typically by adult society. If we get bogged down and focusing on ICT, then we worry about filters and policies and passwords and why doesn't it work. The computers in my house always work. I don't have an IT crew. And I've got as much sophisticated stuff as most schools. The difference is no one has disabled the hardware. No one has made it more difficult to use than it need to be. And that's clearly the case in schools. I haven't been in many Katari schools, but I know anywhere else I travel will give five-year-olds 47-character user names and change the passwords every two weeks because, I don't know, the Russians might find out or something. And so as a result, it just becomes tiresome and bothersome and confusing and technically difficult to support and expensive because we have a lot of personnel involved in this. And that doesn't inspire teachers to learn and grow and think about doing things differently. And it just raises the level of antagonism between children and adults. And I'm all in favor of anything we can do to lower the level of antagonism between children and adults. So why did you say in the conference that we need not protect computers from children? They're just computers. They don't break them. They don't steal them. They don't lose them. And if they do something really silly, you reformat the hard drive and start over again, they're just computers. They're just computers. They're increasingly inexpensive. We behave as if they're a nuclear secret stored in the seventh-grader's laptop and it doesn't make any sense. Everywhere I worked in the world, for example, we're giving kids laptops, the level of theft, breakage, and loss is lower than what you would find in a Fortune 500 company. The children take care of them. The logic in the United States was, my child loses her mittens. Well, they don't lose their laptop. The laptop matters to them. And if they do lose it, it doesn't matter to them. And it doesn't matter to them, it's because what they're doing in schools isn't sufficient. There was a case in Australia, 100 laptops disappeared from a school. It created a huge problem. That's a lot of money. Oh my God, all these laptops are gone. This proves schools shouldn't have laptops. They were stolen out of lockers during school holidays. So my first thought was, why were they there? They were there because they don't matter to the kids.  So that was an indication. That was symptomatic of the school failing, not the laptops failing. Because in schools where the laptops matter to the kids, you can't pry them out of their hands and the children take care of them. The line that's often used is, no one washes a rental car. You don't return a rental car, you don't clean it out. And when it's your laptop, you take care of it. When it's a school computer, they're increasingly difficult to manage because they have a thousand drivers who don't care about them. So do you think that personal computing guarantees student involvement? No, I just said the opposite. And I said no. It could, and it could increase student involvement in ways we've never imagined before. And including teacher involvement. I made reference to this very quickly. But in schools and in universities where I've worked, where we've required teachers that have laptops or students that have laptops, it's changed their view of themselves. They dress better. They enroll in advanced courses. They apply for leadership positions. It changes everything. So it can. But if the school expects nothing of the children and doesn't create imaginative context for them to use the computers in ways that excite them, then no, it won't have that impact at all. It really saddens me when I go into schools and I see kids playing flash games on their laptops or staring at a webpage because they have nothing better to do. There's a million things they could do that would be a lot more exciting. What's really powerful is when the kid sits up in the middle of the night because they thought of how to solve the problem they're working on. Or time disappears when they're engaged in a project that really matters to them. That's what's possible. And if schools aren't achieving it, that's the fault of the adults. So what's your idea of a future classroom? How would it look like? Would it be any different from now? Well, I'm not Nostradamus. I won't be arrogant enough to suggest that I have a crystal ball or a predicted future. I will make one prediction with that caveat. Schools will no longer have the monopoly on children's time that they do now. And one sign that I'm right about that is how much policy makers in the United States and elsewhere think we need to lengthen the school day. That's the first sign that I'm right. That they're panicking and they're not learning enough to make it longer. It's clearly the case that people will be learning in a lot of different contexts and they may not be coming to school for as long. And if that's the case, we have to go back to that example I used in the school as technology. What is it we can do when we're in that space together that we can't do otherwise? That's really important. The second thing I'd like to say about the future of education is the future of education looks a lot like the past. And I don't say that nostalgically. And I don't say that as someone who's hostile to technology or to the future. I'm an unapologetic advocate of kids having access to as much technology as they can handle. But I think the lessons of John Dooley and Loris Malaguzzi and Seymour Pepper and John Holt and John Piaget and Herbert Cole and Jonathan Kozl and Deborah Meyer and Ted Seiser. Progressive educators who dedicated their lives to making classrooms less mind-numbing and soul-killing. Places that had animals and plants and blocks and toys and science equipment and dress up corners and books and excited teachers who had expertise in a variety of subjects. We need to get back to that. There's a lot of what used to happen in classrooms a generation ago or two generations ago that have disappeared as we've chased this elusive fantasy of every child. You know, getting perfect marks on some deeply flawed standardized exam. One of the things that the 21st century allows for is that education no longer needs to be based on scarcity. I should have said this clearer in the session I'll say this afternoon. Qatar has the opportunity to embrace a philosophy of education that allows a lot more children to succeed. If they were to follow a British model, it would be a huge mistake. Huge mistake. The British model has been rooted in classism for centuries. It's based on the notion that education is scarce and only some children deserve it.  Like now in eighth grade you could decide whether you want to be a ditch digger or go to Oxford. Well, that's inadequate because that ditch digger should have the opportunity to go to Oxford too. And they may want to change his mind or change course or become interested in something else. And the Oxford student might find joy in ditch digging. But creating a school system that artificially ranks and sorts children is unnecessary. It's immoral. It's wrong. And we clearly have the case now because of technology, because of what the internet allows for, there's no reason why 10 more children or 100 more children or a million more children can't go to Harvard. And in old days there was a reason. We had a fixed amount of space, a certain number of professors. There's no reason why every child can't have a better education than they've ever imagined before. And if you were to follow a sort of structure that's based on creating winners and losers, that makes that impossible. And it does great violence to the future and to the hopes and aspirations of potential children. So in this session you discussed the personal manufacturing. And you said that kids can play a role in this realm. So what did you mean by that? How do you think that could happen? Well, at the most fundamental level, I think there's an awful lot that can be learned through the making of things.  And that when you make things, you're learning a great deal and you're creating for an audience and you're connecting disciplines of science and math and art and literature, potentially. Or the arts and sciences, certainly. And the personal manufacturing offers a number of opportunities as well as challenges to the current school system. Increasingly over the last generation, kids have fewer and fewer actual tactile experiences where they make things. I'm finding a great number of young people around the world who have never had a conversation with an adult. They've been bossed around, they've been told what to do, they've been called names, they've been tested and labeled and rank and sorted. But they've never fixed the car with a neighbor or gone fishing with an uncle or taken a cello lesson. And so personal manufacturing represents a return to traditions of arts and crafts and science. And it blurs the lines between those arts and sciences and engineering and creativity. Engineers know what they do is creative. In schools we tell kids those things are separate. And despite the fact that engineering is a concrete manifestation of ideas, like you saw in the five-year-old building a robot that danced, the only way we let children study engineering is that they suffer through 12 or 14 years of mathematical abstractions. Only the kids who are the winners in mathematics ever get to do any engineering when if you watch a four-year-old they're engineering all the time. The other big idea of personal manufacturing or personal fabrication is the idea that we can use technology to solve small, personal, local problems. And one of the missteps of educational technology or ICT, if you will, is the notion that everyone in the world needs to be doing the same thing with computers. So I worked with one laptop per child, the folks making the $100 laptop for the developing world. And I can't tell you the number of people from education ministries who had Oxford or Harvard educations who caused untold mischief that got in the way of the children being able to get a computer that was for them. And that mischief manifests itself through saying things like, well, but children in Rwanda or Nepal need to run Excel. Well, why? And if you run Excel, then you can't have $100 laptop because you have to change everything in the hardware and the software to accommodate that. And that's just the prejudice and ignorance of the handful of elites in a society who got to go to a better school than anyone else in their country will have the opportunity to. And if you're in Nepal and the annual pupil spending is $40 a year, perhaps there are other priorities to learning Excel or making a PowerPoint presentation. The priority might be tracking your goats or determining if the milk you're buying is clean. And one of the things a personal fabrication has allowed is people to remotely use technology to solve the problems that matter to them as opposed to learning this artificial canon of nonsense that Microsoft Corporation created. Okay. So how do you think the... You said that education and computing should focus on the software and not the hardware. So for those who didn't attend the session, what did you mean by that? Well, as I said, software determines what you can do and what you do determines what you can learn. So I don't think you need to have a thousand pieces of software on a child's computer, but I think you need a handful of open-ended creative tools like some sort of rich programming environment like micro worlds or scratch or transform or inspire data that lets you visualize numerical data in a way that you can make sense of it that wouldn't be possible otherwise. A way to work process, a way to make a movie, a way to compose some music. Any emphasis needs to be on those domains and those skills as opposed to memorizing the menu options in the software. I can teach word processing to a three-year-old or a 80-year-old the same way. Look, you can type letters. Once you know that, you can save, you can print. That's all you need to know. Anything beyond that's an abstraction. You can figure out on your own. You know, specification, it doesn't matter. Yet in schools, we often spend three or four years teaching kids all the menu options in Word. It's just a waste of time. It's what a friend of mine, David Squires, called false complexity, that you teach all the bits of the software. It looks like you're learning something. You're really learning something when you make something beautiful, when you make something that matters, when you say something important in a coherent fashion, when you solve a problem, not when you can memorize how to change tabs or headers in a word processor. So having software that allows kids to be creative and to make things, I think, is really important. And it's especially important when people increasingly think that the web will solve all of our problems. Sure, there are apps on the web that let us do some things, and some things very well. You can't edit video that well that way. There aren't really good programming environments for kids. You can't compose music that way. So you still need software. And if we stop paying people to develop the tools we need, we won't have any tools. There's an open source movement, and they do some good work. They're very good at copying things that exist already. They're not very good at innovating or making things for children. And the stuff that's made for children is made by a hobbyist in two hours. And then because it's free, we think it's good. It's usually not good. The software that I mentioned was designed by educators and really clever computer scientists who spend a lot of time thinking about not only what features do children need to be able to learn and express themselves, but which features, if we inserted them, would get in the way of them learning. The software design process isn't just about putting stuff in, it's about taking stuff out. And the open source community is all about putting stuff in because the only way you have some sort of identity is by adding a feature. And some of the richest educational software, the best environments for children, have been carefully designed to not overwhelm the children by false complexity. Okay, so do you think really children can design games and... They've been doing it forever, and there's research to support it. It's a lot better than playing them. Kids are pleased to design games because there's a sense of pride, a sense of ownership, a sense of creation associated with it. Even if the product doesn't look like RAN Theft Auto 4, because to kids the process matters more. And the process is where they're learning anyway. And if they're working collaboratively, there may be some kid who's a better artist and another kid who's a better programmer and they can combine their talents to make something that has a product that looks better as well. But I've seen any number of really brilliant games created by kids where it's essentially stick figures moving. But all the logic behind it is really clever. The gameplay is what's really interesting, not the cosmetics of it. And we make the mistake when we think every time there's a new processor that we just have to make the fraction shinier and they'll dance better and therefore kids will learn something they're not interested in in the first place. Kids are making the software and it's been supported by research by Edid Harrell and others. If kids are making software they learn not only about computing more than other kids but they learn a lot more about mathematics and computer science and storytelling and planning and those kinds of skills as well. So before the break you were discussing the Regio Emilia and what happened there and why you mentioned this as a powerful tool for educators and cutters. So can you highlight on that? I think Regio Emilia, the small city of about 160,000 people in Italy is remarkable for their approach to education which is both subtle and beautiful as well as sophisticated and how they've been able to sustain these innovations for over 50 years or close to 50 years that students are provided and allowed to work with materials and tools that mirror the stuff they find in the real world. They have a commitment to the notion that if you give children paper cups and paper plates they never learn to handle glass and china properly. So when they have lunch they sit and serve each other family style with proper ingredients and utensils and children serve and help prepare the food and set the table and if two or three year olds are setting the table they're counting and measuring and dividing and speaking about the menu. But that's just the superficial stuff. The really subtle profoundly sophisticated work that you do Regio Emilia is listen to and observe the behaviors and the interests and the passions and the talents of the children and the teachers view themselves as researchers as investigators who are receptive to those intentions of the children and help them to continue to grow and develop in a way that's non-coercive in a way that supports them, that scaffolds their abilities and helps them move to the next level. So there are a couple of really beautiful examples that I think illustrate this point. One was the idea that I showed during the presentation of what's a very simple idea that can lead to very powerful learning. One of the things we do in traditional schools is it's Martin Luther King's birthday and we say to the kids, he had a dream, what's yours? And the implication being how would you change the world? Or how would you solve global warming? Or how would you solve human trafficking? Well those are really sophisticated problems that really sophisticated adults spend a lot of years trying to solve and maybe not solve at all. When we give children 30 minutes to solve those problems, we deny them authentic opportunities to learn and when we get as a result, it's just politically correct, parroting, not parenting, parroting, repeating, echoing of what we adults think they should say. So the approach that the regioeducators take is, isn't how would you change the world? But if you ask three-year-olds, can you build a park for the birds who come to visit? They can spend months or longer planning, collaborating, designing, measuring, cutting, hammering, nailing, gluing, experimenting with water and fluid dynamics or wind or paint and make something that they can completely get their head around. It's a problem that they can sense of. They can also get a clear sense of what else they need to know and what else they need to learn. Teachers can identify strengths and weaknesses and misconceptions kids thinking and seize the teachable moment to help them correct themselves from the inside, as Piaget said, rather than be corrected from the outside. And by extension, they end up creating something that's beautiful and that in fact does change the world, even if it's only their little corner of it. An excursion, a little project I saw a vignette of when I was in Italy in October was, teacher had an idea. Teachers have lots of ideas. This teacher's idea was they were building a new building, an international center to celebrate their approach to education. And they decided to take some of the children to see the exhibit. Now the first thing about this experience, which sets it apart from most western educational experiences, is that American teachers would take every single child to see the building. And in fact, the American educators who I was with sort of objected to the idea. They took Umbridge, the idea that you only took some of the children. You could almost hear them gasp like, you only took some of the children to see the building. That's not fair. That's not equitable. There's an injustice there. And the Italian educators viewed this very oddly. They sort of shrugged it off and said, the other kids were busy. It would have been rude to interrupt them to take them to see the building. And the idea was to go to see the building so that they could build a gift for the new building. So if you think about that, that's very much in a way that a little child thinks about the world. I'm going to give a gift to the new building. Like I would give a gift to my sister or to my uncle. And while they were there, something serendipitous happened. I talk about the importance of serendipity during my talk. The kids noticed there was this strange magic window on the wall. It was like at a 45 degree angle. And it wasn't a window at all. It was the shadow of the window being projected on a wall of old cheese warehouse. And the children became fascinated by the magic window. And why was it there? How did it get there? And why was it at that angle? And they went back to class. And now this was the genius of only taking some of the children. Because the kids who had seen it and the others were able to tell the ones who had it all about it. And they got the other kids excited about the mystery of this window. So now they took everyone back to see the magic window. And when they got there, it was missing. It's a different time of day. So the children decided to see and wait if it would come back. And they sat in for 90 minutes and waited for the window to come back. And little by little it was appearing. And they were animated and talking about where had it gone? And where would it go next? And they came up with these sort of anthropomorphic ideas of how the window was behaving and where it went. Maybe it has something to do with the sun or the clouds or the birds. And shadows of birds flew through the window. And they decided that we should keep the window. And the way they would keep the window was a kid got on a ladder with a big sheet of paper and traced the window. So they could take it back to their classroom with them. And as he was tracing the window, the window moved. And eventually disappeared. And all they were left with was the memory and the tracing of this window. And they had to months of explorations of light and shadow. And created this incredibly rich environment for kids to test hypotheses. It's an experiment. And if you put three objects on an overhead projector and when you're looking at it, it looks like a bridge. How come when it's on the wall it's not a bridge anymore? And what would it have to look like on the overhead projector for it to be a bridge on the wall? And transparency and opacity and light and shadow. It became a really sophisticated micro world. A really sophisticated laboratory for exploring really powerful scientific ideas. At a level that was completely consistent with being a young child. And the teachers don't decide that every year we'll do the magic window activity. Because next year's children will have something else to wonder about. So that's why I think it's really profound. They say absolutely brilliant things about children and the defense and rights and promotion of children. They refer to children with disabilities and learning difficulties as children with special rights. The city architect spoke to us about how they changed the central plaza, the piazza in the city to reflect the values of the schools the children had attended as small children. That the city invests 18% of its annual budget on early childhood education. So it's this magical place but the ideas are profound and can be applied in any setting. And I try my best to apply them when I teach at the doctoral level as well as when I teach at preschool level. And the part that connects it to ICT is as follows. They believe you use authentic tools. That there's no reason why a three year old can't use a box cutter or nails or saw or hot glue gun or a computer. These are things that are part of their world. It would be less responsible to protect them from them than to teach them to use them responsibly. And in a way that's important and expressive and solves problems that matter to them. So unlike a lot of early childhood movements that are hysterical about computers of sapping children of their creativity or robbing them of their innocence for millions of years of brain evolution. And I've heard all of that stuff. I think that the ballerina example I shared gives a lie to that idea. It sort of contradicts the notion that you can't use computers in a way that are consistent with the values we've left out for childhood development. But the regio people view computers in exactly the same way that it's part of the world of the children and it ought to be part of the way in which they learn and make sense of the world as well. I think that sort of playful tinkering with teachers investigating and guiding and intervening only when it benefits the child is really profound and sophisticated and important and worth sharing with a larger audience. And one of the things I read recently in one of my regio books is about two teachers would work together for years and were terrific as a team. And they decided they needed to go to separate classrooms or separate schools because they were no longer arguing. And they felt that they were like an old married couple. And they had reached a point where that was no longer benefiting the children. Because it was when the teachers were trying to make sense of what are the children learning? What do they understand? What might we do next? How about Jorge or Ahmed or Susan? I've never seen that before. How do we make sense of that? How might we intervene to help the kid develop? They found that when they started getting complacent it wasn't good for the children. And I think it's really important that I sit in that as well. That there's always something we can learn. There are always ways to improve our practice. And frankly when it comes to technology there was maybe a week, ten days at most in 1987 when schools had better stuff than the kids did. It was a historical accident. It will never occur again. It will never come upon us to be receptive to the tools and the learning invitations that exist in the world around us and find ways to use them to help kids learn and grow. So who or what is Generation S? Generation S was created by a friend and colleague of mine named Dennis Harper in the 90s. Dennis had brought computers to several dozen developing countries. He was one of the original professors of educational technology in the United States. He was someone who shared many of the views that I do and came out of the sort of school of thought of Seymour Papert of embracing technology as a way of empowering the learner. And Dennis became the technology director of a school system in Olympia, Washington and the United States and said the only way I'll take this job is if I could put kids in positions of importance. And he said 92% of the people in any school system are children and that's a resource that we shouldn't waste and we should take advantage of it. Kids know how to do stuff, they're curious, they want to contribute. So he went to an extreme where his children pulled the wires, they ran the network. When the community wanted to raise money for computers, the kids created the ballot initiative, they went to door-to-door campaigning for it. When the voters voted for it, they solicited bids, they interviewed vendors. There are still high-tech vendors in the United States who shake when you say Olympia, Washington because you can imagine their horror of having to negotiate with 14-year-olds. I think this was not something they enjoyed doing. In fact, I understand the kids still have a surplus. They're still money they're holding on to because they're so stingy. And when kids were in a position where they felt they could contribute to the school or to their community and share their knowledge with others, it benefited teachers. Professional development often doesn't work because it's in an artificial context.  When it's in your classroom and there's a kid who can help you and when it's the kid's role, it's their job, it's their project and part of their schoolwork to help teach you to use technology in your classroom, you're going to get the help you need when you need it, where you need it. And that goes for technical support as well. Well, Dennis was smart enough to recognize that he was charismatic as a leader and he could do this, but maybe other people couldn't. So he created a curriculum called Generation Yes where the children learn the things we want them to know about technology and about using it responsibly. They also learn how to share what they know, how to teach. They learn what an educational standard is. And they then partner as their project with a teacher who needs help. And the genius of this is that if there's some teacher who year after year after year isn't using computers, the kids know who those teachers are. And what are they going to say when a child comes up to them and says, I'm here to help? They're going to say no. They're going to say, okay. And over time, the teachers get the help they need and then they become more responsible, more professional, you know, more modern educators. So that model has been used in lots of schools around the world, including places in Malaysia. Dennis was involved recently in creating the first school in Liberia in 20 years. And it's been a very successful model where there's longitudinal research to demonstrate that not only did the teachers say it's been beneficial in their own learning, but the students say remarkable things about what it meant to them personally to be able to contribute, to feel like they were part of the school as opposed to just some transient passenger who was passing by. And it's cost-effective. 90% of tech support is, did you plug it in? Or how about you try rebooting? And you've got kids around who could do that. Some schools build it to the point where they use the help desk software and the online mentors that are provided to do an extraordinary level of support where kids are on call. They get pagers in some schools where the kids are doing the sort of IT support that adults would be doing in a company. And it's not just free labor. It's not just child slavery. The children gain benefit from learning how to share what they know with others and how to make a contribution to not just some faraway land but to actually enhance their school because if they make their school better it eventually serves them well as well. So my final question. Why did you say that a good prompt is worth a thousand words? I probably didn't give enough time to this, but over time I've seen dozens about hundreds of times where I run a robotics workshop for four, five, six hours. And at the end of six hours people are able to construct a robot, have it work the way they had hoped, write the software to control it, deal with sensors and friction and gearing and all kinds of sophisticated engineering issues in a day. Or the girl creating the ballerina or the boy who programmed the phonograph. Those were the first things they ever did with the materials. And I started wondering how is it that if you worked through the two years worth of curriculum that's often prepared for these materials you wouldn't be able to create anything that's sophisticated. How is it that me saying to a little girl hey how about you build a ballerina or having a list of one line prompts like build a machine that walks a dog or build a phonograph could lead to such fabulous results without direct instruction, without testing, without quizzes, without teachers interrupting constantly. And my hypothesis is that if you have a good prompt, appropriate materials, sufficient time and a supportive culture, good prompt, appropriate materials, sufficient time and supportive culture you can solve problems that are much more sophisticated than you would have thought you could solve otherwise. And that's a challenge for schools because all four of those ingredients are self-evident. They're really clear. Everyone knows what more time means. Everyone knows what supportive culture means. Everyone knows what appropriate materials or a good idea is. If a school can't create a space, a context in which those four variables exist then they know what to do. But over and over again I've demonstrated and seen that if those four ingredients, if those four variables, requirements are present people can learn and do at an extraordinarily high level in ways they would not be able to achieve if they were merely taught. And I said earlier in the presentation that learning is natural. And you watch babies learn, you watch children develop language. There's any number of examples we have in our lives where we learn in a natural fashion, where it's important, where it's relevant, where it's contextual, where it feels good, where it's satisfying, where it's a value to others. And school is often devoid of those characteristics. And if you don't believe that learning is natural then you have to create all sorts of tricks and coercive tactics to get people to learn. And if you look at a traditional mathematics curriculum, there's a quiz on Wednesday, a review on Thursday, a test on Friday. Most of the children will know nothing on Monday again. And that's an example of we taught them but they didn't stay taught. But it's not an example of learning. And if we sort of focus on less rather than more and create experiences where you can explore a good challenge or prompt and have the materials and the time and the range of expertise and support of culture that's necessary for you to solve the problem that matters to you, you'll have a deeper, more sustained, successful learning experience. Thank you so much for doing this interview.


Starfield is ever so close, and Inon, thank you so much for that spectacular performance. Really appreciate you coming all the way for this. I'm not allowed to say anything about it, Ad. Yes, exactly. All right, well, guys, okay, thank you very much. Thank you very much, guys. Really disappointed. They're disappointed. I'm just so disappointing. This is such a special night for so many developers, and it's really disappointing to see someone act that way. But we're going to move right on with the show. We've got a lot of great games to show you. I'm going to get myself in trouble. That's right. Todd Howard, everybody. This is the guy from Happy Days. Todd, thank you so much for coming all this way to Gamescom. We have a lot to talk about with Starfield, but first of all, is this true? This is your first ever time at Gamescom? This is my first Gamescom, and you were right. You said how great the crowd is here, and it is our first new franchise in over 25 years. If I was going to come, it's for Starfield. We all welcome you to Gamescom in Germany, and we're all very excited to step into this new world, Starfield. Why did you want to make this game, Starfield? Why did you want to create it? A lot of gamers out there, we have dreamt of a game where we looked at the skies and we can blast off into space and explore. We love to make games where we can explore these worlds. We've done like with the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series, but we want to do something brand new where you could explore with complete freedom in the galaxy. Making a lot of chances. It's a game we've always wanted to play that we think a lot of people wanted to play as well. It's kind of that dream game. You did bring some stuff to Gamescom to show to fans. I know there's a theater. What did you bring here to Gamescom? Yeah, it's really cool. We've built a 300-person seat theater where we're actually showing the beginning of the game, and you start out as a miner, and you touch this artifact that affects you in some way, where you see a bit into space time, and then you get to create your own character. Our games are about creating and being whoever you want, and then you're off on adventure. Let's talk a little bit about this adventure. I know people were wondering kind of what the main quest line is going to be after you create your character, which is something that I know. I saw you on the internet this week. It's created you, I think. Did you see that? I went to tweet out a picture. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure that's real. What is it? The thing is, I think you could literally create whoever you want and then enroll yourself into this adventure, and tell us about sort of how the adventure starts. What can we expect?  You're joining Constellation, which are the last kind of group of space explorers like NASA and Indiana Jones searching for these artifacts. The game has a lot of surprises that we haven't talked about. I don't want to spoil them here, but really, really happy with how the story turned out and where it goes. You and your team have done so much for this industry, and the fact that you guys have worked through COVID, building this and come out on the other end, we're so excited for everyone to get a chance to play it. So thank you for all you've done for our industry, Todd. Everyone, Todd Howard. Thank you. Can't wait for you to play the game. Next, it's time for the global reveal of the third installment in a franchise that is very familiar to Gamescom fans. Here we go. Neil before Todd. Here we go. Neil before Todd Howard. Now, what is this? Bird? Is it a new, is it a new co-op game? But if you're, if you're English in my language. Yes, you surely Where's the sound coming from? China. The monster hunter that a soul's like. Monster hunter that a soul's like. Hey, hey, hey. Wait, is it he is Henua or hey Shenhua? Or he is... Ew. What is that? Resident Evil? What is this? I've played killing floor in college, dude. Killing floor was a good like a play with your friends game. Wait, it says only 73 minutes. I swear I played more than that. Guys, wish list, wish list, wish list. Dude, people, people say RTS is a dead genre but I just think there's, there just hasn't been like a good RTS that really captures people more so than it being a dead genre. Yeah, it's just niche, exactly. What's the, Stormgate, right? Stormgate is like from former Blizzard devs. That's kind of like the, we'll see what happens there. Age of Empires 4. Didn't already come out. What a great surprise, Age of Empires 4. Anniversary edition of the award winning game on PC is now available on Xbox consoles today. That's right. It's been a number of years since we last heard an update on Crimson Desert, the new open world action adventure from Pearl Abyss in South Korea. Well, that changes tonight because the team has prepared a very special gameplay update trailer to share with the world first. You're at Gamescom. Enjoy. He did say a game was coming but it was funny because I think we just watched the movie trailer but not the game trailer. The cursor was part of the trailer. Day is the same devs as PDO. Wait, Crimson Desert? Am I dumb? So this is kind of like part of the chorus for a lot of Eastern games. It was like, they just, they, you know, the BR at the end. Yeah, I don't know. That's crazy. Hey, what's up Gamescom, it's IceT. I've hooked up with my favorite game in the world, Payday, and I have my own special heist mission in Payday 3. And you know, I know a lot about heists in real life, all right? It launches September 21st. Here's a world premiere first look. World premiere. Okay, so here's the deal. The components are kept in high security cooling. Dude, Payday is super fun. It's a storage yard. The clock starts ticking as soon as the components are out in the open.  Take too long. I used to play Payday so much in high school. Rade and lose value. Now, do what you need to do to get ready. I'll see you on the other side. So when, is there any date for Payday 3? Dude, is something wrong with me? I keep asking questions as things they already are saying. What is going on? So, is it September or not? I'm just kidding. Can you pre-order it? What are they gonna play at Payday Food Trailer? Oh, did Ubisoft make this game? Camden. Wait. Oh, nice rug. Very good rug. Dude, how come all the frickin' games with brown people are always Arabs? How come there's no Persian brown people? There's literally no games for Persians. Tens of Persia. Oh, wait, never mind, I'll take it back. Never mind, I'll take it back. My bad. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up, Charles? Next January, Prince of Persia is coming out. Wait, so, Assassin's Creed Mirage in Ubisoft. Wait, are Ubisoft? It's Unubisoft. Wait, is it Unubisoft or are Ubisoft? There you have it, Assassin's Creed Mirage, which marks a return to the Middle East for this area offering an immersive and authentic experience featuring full Arabic voice actors on that trailer. You can be transported to ninth-century Baghdad when the game launches on October 5th. Well, now I'm joined by the one and only Harada San, the creator of Tekken, and Michael, the producer of Tekken. Here we go, Tekken. Dude, does he not look like a Tekken character? So, up until now, we've been mostly showing off the battle mechanics and new gameplay, but today we have an all-new mode for her to show you today. This brand-new mode is kind of the story that focuses on you as a player. It covers the arcade scene, which is, you know, a classical atmosphere that people of our generation actually got to experience firsthand, but maybe some of the newer game-player gamers out there haven't. All right, well, let's take a look at the brand-new trailer for Tekken 8. Thanks, guys. In some way. Yeah. 32 fighters. We'll play through. They're not done announcing all the fighters yet, right? But if you get some... What time is it? I bet this dude speaks pervy English but I don't want to. Yeah, Harano, he spoke... He spoke it evil. Oh, my gosh, Rashid again? Ezreal. New single-player mode? Oh, it's like World Tour. That Yoshimitsu is so caliber.  Is it valid? Okay. Eight face. What's done is done. Keep tenor. Like Wukong. All right, I'm now joined by Shelby Carlton and Dave Swenson from Sledgehammer because on November 10th, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 arrives. And today, you guys should be the first audience in the world to see some raw, real game-fights from the campaign. I feel like they moved on a little bit kind of quick. Dave, Shelby, welcome to Gamescom. What can you tell us about Modern Warfare 3? Well, first of all, Jeff, it is awesome to be here. Modern Warfare 3 this year is the complete package. We're shipping 16 multiplayer maps all from the original Modern Warfare 2. These maps have been modernized with new gameplay and features. We also have Open World Zombies. This is our largest zombies, yeah, yeah. This is our largest zombies offering ever and for the first time it's set in the Modern Warfare universe. Open World Zombies. And of course, this year, we are bringing a huge innovation to the Call of Duty campaign. Yes, let's talk a bit about the campaign, Shelby. Makarov, I know, is gonna factor into this. See him over there. Tell us a bit about what is the storyline? What can we expect from the campaign? Yeah, so for the first time for Call of Duty this year, we're doing a direct sequel. Modern Warfare 2, they asked a lot of interesting questions in their story and Sledgehammer Games is so excited to work with Infinity Ward on the campaign to answer some of those questions and to bring you Modern Warfare 3. And one of those answers, he's actually standing right behind you. He is Makarov. He is our infamous antagonist. Didn't Modern Warfare 3 already happen? And this year in Modern Warfare 3, we're introducing a new innovation to the Call of Duty campaign that's gonna allow players to interact with that story like never before. We call them Open Combat Missions. Open Combat Missions are player directed. They allow the audience to play the game the way they want to play it. So if you're like me and you like stealth, you can go in quiet, you can equip suppressed weapons, complete all the objectives without the enemies ever knowing you were there. Isn't that normal? But if you wanna go in loud, isn't that normal? You can strap on armor plates, you can go and hit the enemy head on and Open Combat Missions will support it. You can leverage vehicles, you can leverage tacticals, lethals, you can even use your favorite kill streaks in campaign. Now, Open Combat Missions are really important to our campaign story and they're gonna work seamlessly with those epic cinematic missions that Call of Duty fans know and love. I feel like almost every gun... First look at one of these epic cinematic missions. Every shooting game campaign mode is like that. Set it up first. What are we going to see? This is the start of the game almost, right? Yeah, so this is a sneak peek of the very first level of Modern Warfare 3. This is called Operation 627. All right, check it out. Here you go, Call of Duty at Gamescom first. Thanks guys. Instead of leading your way through the mission, it's gonna let you run around and not know what you're doing. True. Can't talk about text, Mr. Texas Stealth. Look, Texas Stealth, maybe that's how I do things. Okay, now the trailer starts. That was the pre-trailer. Right, choose your movement. I thought I was supposed to get to choose how I wanted to play. What if I want to go around the building and walk? Well, the problem is the streaming, the bit rate that this is being streamed at does not do this trailer justice because this looks horrible. I can't see a thing. I can't tell what's going on at all. And you have like the rain on the camera. Like it's, they didn't account for like live streaming at all. Whatever they recorded this. Like they need to not have it raining. It just makes the game look worse. Oh. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, it's compressed twice because we're re-streaming it. Do you see, Cleo? Go on Face2. It's not a copy of Face2 Madden 23. True. This is just like last year's Madden.  That's off. Looks like a prisoner transfer. Not okay. On me. Yeah, I feel like they, I feel like they didn't choose a good mission to show. Like, I don't know what it is about this. Like it's hard for me to pay attention. Madden, you should switch your least suggestions. A new Baldur's Gate content updates every year in the new Madden game every 23 years. Hatch way. On me. Move. Let's pop the hatch. Put your status. I saw the controls. YouTube premium. Alchemist, hello. Let's get a guy. Why don't they stream it in 4K? Well, what they do is they usually stream it in at the same bit rate. Next up, we're going to step into the world of the Hoyoverse. I am here with Genu Lee, the producer of Zenless Zone Zero. Genu, welcome to Gamescom. It's great to have you here. No, I never watched our game. Me too, yes. Fantastic. It's a great honor to have you here. We've been very excited to hear more about ZZZ, the next game of the Hoyoverse. The Hoyoverse. Can you tell us a little bit about what you brought to Gamescom for this ARPG? So we've brought a trailer with us and it shows you some of the urban environment that we've been working on and also some of the dynamics of the game. I hope you like it. Excellent. Thank you very much. Here you go. Brand new trailer for Zenless Zone Zero at Gamescom. This English accent is slightly weird too. But it turned into a dog person.  Wait, they made a game called ZZZ. That's terrible. This past April on the High Star Rail made its global debut and the game. Have you guys noticed all the anime games or gotcha games? No, I will say this. It's a comeback. The trailer boards up the fallen releases in RPG Adventure where he plays a dark crusader who can access a parallel dimension, the umbral. Here is a first look at the brand new story trailer. That sounded cool. Dark crusader. Out of thorns. Okay.  You have been deceived.  See what they have made of the track. Now this is an S-fan game. Big sword. Paladins. Might be the shadows look back. Talking about. Actual good trailer. We got a first look at the first descendant, a next generation action looter shooter from Nexon. The cross play open beta is going to be held September 19th to 25th. I'm trolling by the way that we'd be at the house all the time. What are we playing after this? Either Madden or Baldur's Gate, I still haven't made my final decision. If I play Madden today, then I would do Baldur's Gate tomorrow and then before Armored Core, I would do Baldur's Gate as well. So I gotta figure it out. Chat. I love this game. I love Nexon now. I just think we'll see. A good way. Busy. Underwater. Unit trench is still unit trench. That's David the Diver too. I heard there was a storm coming. Extraction rate. Good one. Maximum output. I don't expect you to understand. You're not the only one who's suffering. I need you with me here, now. Under the waves. You're right there. On the verge of something special. Being first into great unknowns. Wait, are you streaming the game in the Marvel Snap category of drops? Julia Brown, the stars of Fort Solace, which is out today on PlayStation and PC. Guys, welcome to Gamescom. This is so fun. Tell us a bit about this project. What can you tell us? Oh, my God. Look at these people.  Been able to talk about this game for a while. I think the thing that I'm most excited about is for people to explore these characters. At the core of this experience is unraveling the mystery of Fort Solace.  I'll give you a try. You're going to do that by discovering these characters and learning about their stories. And as actors, that's something that we just want to throw ourselves into. And this is a game, I know Roger made. It's an independent game made by a pretty small team, right? 10 people, two years, zero delays. We are very excited to share with you. Yeah. Fort Solace, today, it was a real joy to work on. And it's a joy to see what indie studios are capable of in this day and age. It's a real thrill. And an amazing cast for an independent game. Juliet, this is a, we know you from a lot of great film, television work. This game thing, how did you get involved in this project? Yeah, it's my first ever video game project. It's so exciting. And I just got surgery to fix my lip. Besides two of the best in any game world, nonetheless. Oh, don't lie to me. Watch these guys and learn.  We see a little tease of your character there, Juliet. What can you tell us about kind of the, what we're going to see in this project? Who is she? What does she do? It's an amazing narrative experience, right? This sort of an independent game, but done. You sound great. Production died. You sound great. Roger. Jolly Roger. One of the best things about working with Troy, I remember coming in from lunch and we were doing the mocap. And I walked into the foyer, and there I see Troy's butthole.  Wait, when I say we threw ourselves into this, we literally did.  Hole in the hole that was made by my butt. Which he signed. And Juliet, I know you're, it's a little mysterious what your role is in this game, right? But we have to play to find out. Dude, it's awkward like nobody in the crowd laughed. That was funny. You're working on four solace alongside Jack Leary. And they're going to have a night that they will never forget. Ooh, OK. And it's a thrilling ride. Well, let's get a little tease of this and say it's out today. Here is the launch trailer for Fort Solace. Thanks so much, guys. Our pleasure. Thank you guys. Thank you. Submitted as a no sign of scarcity. This game came out today. I think they may have been. What does this remind me of? This reminds me of something. Yeah, it's kind of like Dead Space, Alien Isolation. All right, next it's time for the announcement about a new game from Focus Entertainment and Saber, the continuation of the ultimate off-road experience. Oh, here we go. Behind all great discoveries lies a journey hunting game, one of anticipation and adaptation of struggle, of hope. Guys, thank you for the subs. Just some guy, thank you for the tier one. Thank you, Jim and I, for the 11 runs. There's a solution for every task, a tool. Asking to, yep, absolutely, for every destination, every destination. What's up, guys? Yep, Expeditions, a Mudder Runner game. Wish list now. All right, our next stop, the Crew Motorfest, a vibrant open world, welcomes you to the ultimate festival for car lovers, Motorfest. Here is the brand new trailer. This don't look right. I'm going to play this. I got to sponsor for this F1 game coming up soon. Actually, do I still have one? Is that a wheel? I'm just going to have my wheel. The Crew Motorfest comes out September 14th, and the brand new Lamborghini Rivelto is on the cover and playable. And we have a special O and L announcement for everyone watching between September 14th and 17th. A free trial will be available of the game, offering five hours of gameplay on all platforms for the Crew Motorfest. All right, move it on with CD Project Red gearing up for the release of the Sky Thriller expansion to Cyberpunk 2077, Phantom Liberty on September 26th. The studio is ready to share a new look at the wide range of overhaul mechanics coming to the game. You're about to see a lot has checked into every wall on the tracks for a few hours. I never played Cyberpunk, but I heard that Cyberpunk got a really bad rap because of all the compatibility issues of the console version. But the PC version is like crazy good now. Would you guys be down to watch me play Cyberpunk? I've wanted to play it for some time now. But I've never brought myself to do it because I feel like it's a big undertaking. Yes, if you actually play it proper.  There's only one way that I play games, and it's the S-Band way. OK. How do we play a game one way? All right, tonight we've also got an update on the science fantasy strategy game, Stormgate, and a first look at one of the factions, the Infernal Hosts. Stormgate is a spiritual successor to classic real time strategy games like Warcraft 3 and Star Trek 2. Stormgate is what I was talking about. Stormgate will be. I said earlier, I was like, let's see how Stormgate does. It's fighting for control of Earth's future. Today we have an early look at our second faction, the Infernal Host.  Any cost. They have a powerful advantage, shroud, fields of dark magic that strengthen their audience. The lowliest Infernal units are the worker imps. You might think they're cute, but don't get too close. Between these powerful lumbering brutes and the fiends that they unleash, Infernal's will sacrifice everything, including themselves, to emerge victorious. On the music front, the chain smokers are advising us on our soundtrack. We're working with composers like Frank Klopaki of Command & Conquer. We'll share more later this year, including some of the friends we've brought in to lend their voices to our co-op campaign. Oh, my sir. I'm now here with Judd Cobbler, the founder and CEO of 11-Hour Games. Judd, this is the name of you guys. ARPGs have had an incredible year, but you're an independent studio that has been building this game for a number of years, and we're excited to tell your stories. Tell us a bit about The Last Epoch. Absolutely. So, Jeff, thanks so much for having me. First off, before Last Epoch, I was not in the games industry. I was just a die-hard action RPG player that dreamt of creating a community-made action RPG. And with the help of our community- Use the sound alerts right. We've been able to make that happen. And so in Last Epoch, every single skill in the game has its own transformative skill tree. We have 119 skills in the game so far. So is it greenwashing? We're adding more every single patch. Greenwashing. We also have an awesome holistic skill system, deep and interesting boot, and multiple in-game systems for endless- They're trying to make our games environmentally friendly. And, Jeff, tonight we're excited to announce our newest class, The Roon Master. The Roon Master has a unique mechanic where he's able to invoke any of 40 different abilities with a single- Wait, greenwashing is a real term. They get super excited- That's funny, I thought you were making a joke. to experiment and find your perfect play style. And The Roon Master is gonna be joining us September 7th, and will be available to play here all week at Gamescom. Amazing. Well, this is such a great story of this game. I encourage you to check it out. And right now, we've got a first look at The Roon Master. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it. Five years ago, Last Epoch was a community dream. What if we, the players, could band together to make the next great ARPG? What would that game look like? Lots of character classes to choose from. Every single skill would have its own build-defining skill tree. Reaching in-game would be just the beginning, and it would be updated for years so we could play forever. Last Epoch makes crafting and finding items super rewarding. Again, it's genius. I think this is the most innovation we've seen in a trade system in an ARPG in at least a decade. Really cool game. Speaking of cool games, please welcome the winner of best multi-game last year at the Game Awards, Ben Brode from Marvel Snap. Hello, Ben. Oh! Dude, Marvel Snap was actually crazy good. But we just finished rebuilding the entire game to run creatively on PC. Oh! It looks insane. And I'm here to tell you that literally just like five minutes ago... No, Ben Brode was actually good. Yeah, it's not Ben Brode. Ben Brode was good. Marvel Snap is actually good. That's fantastic. Why is he shouting? It's because it's Ben Brode. I know any of us who watched the show on Twitch was more than 30 minutes of O&L tonight. There's a special Twitch drop, a Spider-Man variant from Marvel Snap. And right now, we've got an exclusive... Ben Brode is old Blizzard. From Snap! Check it out! Thanks, Ben. Yeah, he's an old Blizzard guy. He was basically in charge of... Actually, he was in charge of Hearthstone, wasn't he? He was the Hearthstone guy. Like, he was like, is that Sailor Moon? Ghost Rider Deadpool? See? Oh, okay. So they remade the game completely for Steam. Ready to get out there? We have a lot to talk about. Dude, you know what's bad? I feel like... I hear rap music in a game trailer now. And my brain triggers like a... Oh, they're trying to force rap music. Like, why are they trying to force it? But I don't even know... Like, I haven't watched it long enough to process whether or not it's a good trailer or if the song fits or not yet. Immediately, my brain thinks that.  But I think that's happened because so many times you're watching trailers and you're like, hey, we're just gonna shove some rap music in here and then it'll be cool. Hello, fellow kids. What do you have against rap? I don't. I love rap music. C-4-6-2-1 has awakened. Armored Core, chat, Thursday. What's up, my favorite? Thursday, five o'clock. We're gonna play Armored Core. Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel, Esfandel. Call sign, Raven. Priority subject determination. High on the list. Thank you. Thanks, Shabby. They give it two years or two months. Armored Core. Esfandesfandel. Thanks, Zagratis. Thanks for the 58 months, dude. Fires of Retribution. So, Digital Deluxe Edition is, is this gonna be on Steam or is it on Game Pass? No, I just like saying Retribution. Or, you'll be forgiven. I ran, but I survived. You're not a thing of the 19 months. Okay. Okay, you got it. No matter who tries to stop me. You know what, though, it kind of fits. I'll cut my own back, please. I'll fight until I stand in the land of South Africa. War Haven. That trailer was kind of sick. That was War Haven and the Nellay multiplayer PVP game will hit Steam Early Access on September 21st. Next, I am so excited to welcome to Gamescom the creator of Mortal Kombat. Who's come all the way to Gamescom to unleash even more news on MK1, which ships in just a month. Please join me in welcoming to Owen Al, Ed Boone. Oh, fancy seeing you here. Well, we had a lot of fun with you at Summer Game Fest, revealing the first gameplay of MK. And I gotta say, every trailer you drop just gets crazier and crazier. So what did you bring to Gamescom? We brought another, probably our craziest trailer of all. You know, since we introduced the gameplay at Summer Games, Summer Game Fest, we couldn't believe the reaction people having to the game. And they've actually gotten their hands on the game, which has become even more exciting. I can't believe the crazy stuff people have come up with combining the main characters and the cameo characters to spin a riot. But this trailer we have here should give you an even better idea of how insane things get with this game. There are some reveals in it. I gotta say, this is such a great asset.  It is funny they are like kind of forcing rap music into everything. The brand new trailer. Like they're like, they're forcing it, you know. Outworld can be both alien and intoxicated to earth realmers. While our realms are at peace, General Shaw. Victor of the Tavarian War. Conqueror of the Quatton Plains. All of Outworld is grateful for his service. Whoa! Oh, God! I'm joking, that's me, that's me, that's me, Chad. I was joking, I was joking, I was joking. The illustrious father teach you that war is the last resort. Do not forget that general. We gather once again to honor my late husband's legacy to continue the tournament that he founded with Lord Liu Kang. And watch it like that. Let us meet your champion. Earthrealm's champion is raiding your majesty. Is it me or is Earthrealm's champion scrawny other than usual? He has earned his place by embodying the very best of all things of Earthrealm's people. It's like you're watching an animated movie. Whom shall I face?  He will taste no victory. Oh, see, I didn't play the previous one. But everybody says the campaign for the previous one was really good and I should play it. Do you announce yet? Who's your queen? Number 19. Dude, when is this game coming out, Chad? I'm joking.  I'm worried I'm not gonna be very good at Mortal Kombat. Time-free. Blizzard has had a long history here at Gamescom and in its latest game, Diablo IV, it arrived in June Blizzard? For seasonal contact. Their first season of the Malignant is now underway but in a bit of a surprise, we're now about to share with you the first news on the next season coming this fall. There's rumors of an announcement. Wait, season two of Diablo announcement? Already? Dude, Diablo IV launch really was a win for Blizzard but they kind of, they lost them out for season one, dude. Dude, Blizzard went from having the best cinematics in the world. And like industry standard setting cinematics teams.  But it's not the same. Like they were the best. Like they started this in BFA. What was it called, the Warbringers? They were called Warbringers trailers, right? Season of Blood, season two. Season two is in, wait, that's fast. October already. It is our 10th show, which I can't believe we've been doing it for 10 years. We'll be live at the Peacock Theater in LA. So they have a show tomorrow as well. We hope to see you then. It's going to be a very, very special show. Thanks again for watching Gamescom opening night live. We'll see you again next year. Good night, everybody. So they have the future game show tomorrow. Do you guys wanna watch the future game show? They should hire you to present next year.  So I don't think they would hire me. But I don't watch most of this stream. Thanks, Matt, I'll block up. Yeah, game of the year, man. I mean, it's gotta be Baldur's Gate three's gotta be up there. Final Fantasy XVI is gonna be up there. Honestly, Hogwarts is probably gonna be up there. Starfield could be a candidate. Dude, this is a bad year for good games to come out. And if they wanna win a game of the year. But man, you know what's crazy? At the end of the day, do these rewards really matter? Do the awards really matter? All that really matters is like, yo, who's buying, right? Like it kind of doesn't really matter. I think it's just like a fun thing, you know? Good for marketing, it probably is good for marketing because like for us, like we're not, like most of us watching right now, we're not like the average, like normal gamer. The average person would consider us to be like hardcore gamers. Like you're paying attention to the award shows and you're paying attention to this stuff. But like, if you're like, hey, I don't know, this game says game of the year is probably good. And then they go and they see it on the cover, right? And then they go sell it to you. Or then they go to the store to buy it. Then they're like, okay, whatever. People put game of the year on game releases whether they win or not. That's true too. People will be like, hey, you know, Billy Bob over at like Gaming Monthly says that this is the game of the year.  All right, let's see. Has he won yet?  I was watching it this morning before I went live and it felt so much like the old streams. Like I don't, it's like good gameplay streams are like, it's good stuff, dude. Things have changed, man.


The Grape Nuts and Grape Nuts Flakes Program, coming to you from Hollywood, California and starring Jack Benny, with Mary Livingston, Phil Harris, Dennis Day Rochester, and yours truly, Don Wilson. There are two schools of thought among the folks who take breakfast on the sip and run plan. One is the hurry, hurry group. They never have time, they say. The other is the why bother group. They claim they're just not hungry. Well, it so happens that I have the answer for both groups. If you're rushed in the morning ready to eat Grape Nuts Flakes, take no time to prepare. And if you're in the just not hungry type, why, delicious, morally rich Grape Nuts Flakes will make you hungry. They're so appetizing. Yes, sir, there's tempting zest in every sweet as a nut spoonful. And while Grape Nuts Flakes are exhilarating as an autumn breeze, they also pack a big nutritional wallet.  And that's important at breakfast time, for nutrition experts say we all need at least one quarter of our daily nourishment in the morning. So eat a good breakfast and do a better job. And for downright appetite enjoyment, help yourself to plenty of delicious, nutritious Grape Nuts Flakes. And immediately after last week's broadcast in New York, Jack Benny and his gang left for California. So now we take you aboard the train where we pick them up one day before their arrival in Hollywood. I can't understand it. Nothing in Luella Parsons column but my coming home or Harry Crocker's. Let's see, where'd I put my glasses? Oh, Mary, you've got the other papers. Anything in head of Hopper's column? Yes, but not about you. Can't understand it. I always say nice things about our hats. Oh, well. Say, Don, isn't this exciting news about Anthony Eden and Secretary Hull meeting with Joseph Stalin in Moscow? Yes, Mary, all the papers are full of it. Gee, this meeting will really make history. Nothing about me and Sid Skalski's column either. Oh, Jack, here's something in Harrison Carroll's column. Where, where? What, what, what? Where? Where is it, Mary? I'll give it to you. Oh, I'm sorry. What does it say? It says what radio comedian who has heard on what night for what sponsors having what trouble with his who? I wonder who that can be. Sounds like what's his name? Maybe. I never even thought of him. Now, let's see. Hey, here's something in Jimmy Starr got about me. Look, at the macambo last night, Gary Cooper was seen doing the rumba with the shapely Jack Benny. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. I wasn't even there. Let's see that. Here, imagine shapely Jack Benny. That's Joan Bennett and put on your glasses. Anyway, Gary is too tall for me. Besides, he's so thin he hasn't got anything to rumba. Gee, I can't get over it. You'd think that. Hey kids, look! Hey, look at this headline. Britain and holler in Moscow with Stalin. Well, what do you know about that? What is it, Jerome? Get a load of these military boots on shine. Ain't there something? Yes, sir. Who do they belong to? You know that elderly gentleman in lower eight? Lower eight? Well, that's Mr. Benny. Jack Benny? A dog gone I never recognized. You look younger in the movies. Well, those makeup boys, they have a way of taking the wearing tar off of you. Amazing. Well, now, what about Mr. Benny's hair? And the move is it's brown. It's not only brown, it's that. Amazing. Who's here? Good morning, Rochester. And a good, good morning to you gentlemen. It's right there in gold letters, O-B-A-G. Old blood and good. They're fine ones, all right, but ain't there a little wide and floppy around the top? Yeah, but they fit nice and snug when it gets his underwear tucked in. Say, Mr. Benny wears long underwear? No, he wears short. But where they're supposed to drape, they droop. Long enough, shall we proceed with what we all have in mind? Oh, OK. Fellow members, I am venturing $2. What is your reaction? Participate for one. Thank you. And I will absorb the balance. OK, gentlemen. OK, gentlemen, let us caress the rug with our knees. Nothing in Erskine Johnson's column either. Oh, well. Hi, you kids. Say, Mary, how about a game of gin? Do you want to play? OK, Phil. Yeah, that'll pass the time away. Little gin rummy, Phil? No, no. On second thought, Jackson, I think I'll read a while. Oh. How about you, Mary, want to play a game? Not with you, brother. Whenever you lose, you get sore and gripe and yell. And then you put your toupee on backwards for luck. Yeah, you. And then every time someone deals the cards, you get so darn suspicious. What are you talking about? Well, look what happened yesterday. When the conductor picked up our railroad ticket, you hollered, let me cut him. Oh, stop dreaming things up. Hey, Jack, why don't you ask Dennis? He might play with you. That's right. Where is he? Well, there he is, way up in the front end of the car. Oh, yes. Hey, Dennis! Dennis! Jack, don't yell like that. We're not the only people in this car. What's the difference? Hey, Dennis! You want to play some gin rummy? No, thanks, Mr. Benny.  I'm so embarrassed. Well, that's good for you. Isn't that right, Miss Livingston? Quiet. We're not the only people in this car. Guess I put that kid in his place. Someday I'm going to. And here comes Rochester. Oh, Rochester, how about a game of gin rummy? No thanks. I never gamble. I'll find somebody on the train to play with me. I wish I was paying my writers enough money so they could afford to gamble. Gamble? They're lucky they can eat. Oh, yeah? They're getting enough to eat. Jack pays them off in grape nuts. Mary, that's only part of their salary. They get one third in grape nuts, one third in money, and the other third in grape nuts flakes. So there. That's mighty wide of you, Jackson. What do they do with the third they get in cash? They have to buy sugar and cream from Jack. They do not. And they're very happy with that arrangement. Well, why shouldn't they be? Imagine getting most of your salary in those toasty brown sweet as a nut grape nut flakes. Yes, and it's so easy to make change that way. And not only that, they get one delicious flavor and two distinctive forms. That's right, Don. Well, I'm going into the diner and get something to eat. You join me, Mary? If you promise not to embarrass me in front of the waiter. What do you mean embarrass you? You're the only man I know who sends a check to Joel Cupperman to see if it's added upright. Mary, if Joel doesn't mind, what are you kicking about? Come on, I'll treat you to a meal. Hey, dinners, what do you say to a little grub? Hiya, grubby. It's my fault for asking him. Come on, Mary, let's go. Right this way. We're pretty crowded, so would you two mind sharing a table with this young lady? No, no, no, not at all. Sit here, Mary. Well, hmm, lovely day, isn't it, Miss? It sure is. Yep. I think it's even nicer than it was yesterday. I'll say. Whether so unpredictable, I mean, tomorrow may be even nicer. It sure might. Yep. It's a privilege to sit in on this conversation.  I don't know what to eat. Oh, Stuart, what would you suggest? Well, we have some very nice lamb chops, but unfortunately, we can't serve them. Why not? Shortage of panties, you know.  Let me see. I know what. Bring me a small steak. Oh, is there another kind? Look, Stuart, just bring me the steak and some mashed potato of them. How about you, Mary? I'll have the same. Very good. Mary, isn't that Stuart kind of silly? I think so. This morning, I ordered some grape nuts flakes. So he brought me a grape nut and told me to flake it myself. That I don't believe. Say, that looks like a nice dessert you're having, Miss Farrell. Miss Farrell, yeah. Oh, it's nice to meet you, Miss Farrell. This is Miss Livingston. And I'm Jack Benny. Yeah, I recognize both of you. Well, well, I hope you, I suppose, you listen to us on the radio. Yeah, but to tell you the truth, I hope you won't mind my saying it, that I happen to be a Fred Allen fan. Fred Allen? Oh, I don't mind at all. In fact, I admire anyone who has enough courage to admit it. You know, Mrs. Farrell? It's Miss Farrell. Oh, oh, pardon me. Pardon me. Miss, Miss Farrell. Yeah, but it'll soon be Mrs. When my boyfriend returns from overseas. Well, that's nice. Congratulations. You know, I just returned from North Africa myself. Oh, then I'm going to show you my boyfriend's picture just a second here. And here it is. Well, nice looking chap. Yeah, his name is Crowley. What? Yeah, Joseph. Has he got a brother in New York who drives a cab? Well, here we go again. Mary, no, no, Miss Farrell. I didn't meet Corbyl Crowley. Say, Mary, I wish the food would come. I'm hungry. Me too. I'm starved. I don't know what's keeping the word. Cracks is knuckles a lot. Funny you didn't hear them. Yes, I know, I know. Well, here comes the food. And boy, does that steak look good. See it, Mary, right under the parsley there. Well, this is your birth, Mary. Have a good night's rest. I will. Good night, Jack. Good night. Gee, it's so early. I don't feel like going to bed yet. Wish I could get somebody to play gin rummy. There must be somebody on the train with a little sporting blood. Oh, hello there. Say, would you be interested in playing a game of gin rummy? No. All right. All right. Just a suggestion. Just a suggestion, that's all. Oh, well, I guess I might as well go to bed. This birth feels good. Nice to be able to stretch out.  OK, Phil. I don't know why you insist on traveling like this. Now, these births are only built for one. Well, I know that as well as you do. But these are difficult times. It's tough to get transportation. We're lucky we're in here. I suppose so. Not because I didn't want to spend the money. No, no, Jack. Parish the thought. Oh, don't be funny. Anyway, I'm too cramped to argue. All right, then drop. Well, you don't have to get huffy about it, do you? Who's getting huffy? Hey, fellas, be quiet. How do you expect me to sleep here between you two? I'm sorry, Dennis. Good night, Phil. Every night the same thing. Don't worry about it, kid. We're going to be home tomorrow. Gee, I'd like to punch him right in the nose.  Go ahead, give it to him. I can't. I haven't got room to wind up. Good night, kid. I'm going to sleep and try to dream about Alice. Do you mind if I help you? Yeah! Fuller, where are we? Lower birth number eight. Go back to sleep, will you? To Hollywood. We're now back in the thing I heard on the train on Roots Studio, where we hear Dennis Day singing, I heard here Dennis Day singing night. It's good to be back in the studio. That was, I heard you cried last night sung by Dennis Day. And Dennis, all I can say is that was Trey BN. And now, folks. Well, no wonder. I haven't slept for three days. Dennis, in the first place, I complimented you. And in the second place, we had a sleep in the same birth on account of transportation problems. Come in. Mr. Benny. Yes? I'm Wally, Mayor of the United Press. Well, well, always glad to see the gentleman of the press. Now that you're back in Hollywood, I understand you're going to make a picture for Warner Brothers. Is that right? Yes. How are the brothers taking it? Lying down. Quiet. Yes, Mr. Mayor, I'm starting it next month. The title of my new picture is Is it true that while in Egypt you bought a camel and you're having a ship to Hollywood? Yes, yes. And I expected to arrive at the same time I start my new picture, which is called What cities did you visit in North Africa? Well, I was in Cairo, Benghazi, Tunis. Tunis is where I received a cable, telling me that the title of my new picture is the horned Were you in Casablanca? Yes, yes, Casablanca. Yes, I gave that story to a reporter last week. Well, tell me. Were you in Algiers? What did you say, Mr? I said, were you in Algiers? Was I in Algiers? Let me tell you a story, Mr. Mayor. Come closer. This will be interesting. Very interesting. Algiers in 1938, a gay modern city teaming with commerce from all the seven seas, while above the city grim, silent, and mysterious, lie the tangled buildings and the twisted streets of the native quarters, known as the Casbah. Yes, the Casbah, the hideout of the notorious jewel thief Charles Pepelamoco Boyet. Here we find two members of his gang, Three Finger Harris and Dennis the derelict. Say Three Finger. What is it, derelict? I'm worried about Pepe. He said he'd be here at 7 o'clock and it's 5 30 already. So you still got an hour and a half. What are you worrying now for? Well, it takes me a little while to get rolling. If Pepe's out with that girl he met yesterday, I'll fill him so full of holes it'll look like an apple at a worm convention. Oh, now don't be so jealous, Inez. Pepe loves you. Why is he crazy about you? Oh, sure. I work and I slave. And what do I get? A Pepe Lamoco with a baldy cocoa. Wait a minute, Inez. Lamoco's cocoa is no joco. Not since he waxed it with gloco. Hi, everybody. Here comes Pepe now. Hello, Pepe. Hello, Three Finger. Well, gentlemen, I have brought the pearls which we stole last night. Here they are. Oh, boy. Now listen to me. These are not enough. Tomorrow night I'm going to send you to the ball at the Beverly Algears. It is right across the street from the brown fairs. There will be beautiful ladies there, and even more beautiful jewels. And remember, Three Finger, these time when you bring back the jewels, you will first remove the ladies. Now here is what you must do. Maybe the police. Hide the jewels quick. I'll put them in the cookie jar. The cookie jar, good. They will never suspect. Come in. Ah, it is you, Inspector Wilson. What brings you to the Casbah? Well, Pepe, I've come to tell you that the police are looking for you. There were some jewels stolen last night. Now where are they? Jewels? What jewels? Sit down, my friend. Make yourself at home. Will you have a cookie, Inspector? Leave the room. He makes joke. Someday I laugh till he dies. Have some tea, Inspector. Oh, thanks. I've got to go. But I'm worrying, you puppy. Stay out of the city. You're worrying me. Are you scarred, Chief? That's scare. Do not worry, Three Finger. They will never get old blood and guts, Lomoco. I will call my bodyguard. Oh, Pierre. Pierre. Oui, oui, boss. You are my bodyguard. Why do you let Inspector Wilson enter the Casbah? Yes, Garboudi. I said, pourquoi permettez-vous l'Inspector Wilson d'entrer la Casbah? For ce qu'il est plus grand, or plus fort, could just wait. And besides, he packs a rod. Now listen, Pierre, and remember all of you. I am master of the Casbah. You will do as I say. All except me. Ah, it is you. Hello, Inez. Hello, Pappy. I am Pappy. I eat grape nuts. You are trembling, Inez. What is the matter, my little dog? Don't dove me, you two-time and wolf. What about that other day, the one I saw you with last night in the cafe? Do not worry, Inez. It was just a flotation. Believe me. Well, I see you with her again. I'll take this gun and make Warner Brothers happy. Oh, yes. That'll remind me. The name of my new picture is- I'm warning you, Pappy. This gun is loaded. My little cobra. Claudette cobra. That I just put in here, it is nothing, nothing. This is what you call Adelie, bad me. Ah, my little cobra, you are so excited. Come here. Close your eyes and kiss, Pappy. How else do you think I can do it? Now listen to me, Inaz. Hey, Pappy, Pappy, what is it? That beautiful girl you had tea with yesterday has come to the cash bay and wants you to see you. Oh, then she did come back like she promised. My heading. Uh-huh, I knew you were lying to me. You dog, you puppy. I am Pappy.  I'm as you are insane. Put down that gun. Hey, Chief, Chief, what is it, Pierre? Look, look, here she comes now, Miss Hattie. Hattie. My Hattie. I must remember this. I kiss her, still I kiss. England, what are you doing in Algiers? They're doing the right thing nowadays than they've ever had in years. Want to know what these folks are? They're the folks who are helping make Uncle Sam's new food program click by sharing and playing square with foods, by buying and serving more of the foods that are plentiful and unraised. Plentiful foods like grape nuts and grape nuts flakes. And now you can see where the enjoyment part comes in, because grape nuts and grape nuts flakes are not only plentiful, nourishing, and frifty, hence the type of food we're asked to eat more of. They're also perfectly swell-eating, moldy, rich, and sweet as a nut. Each with a delicious, crispy texture, all it's all. And both are basic seven foods that supply all-around whole grain nourishment. So let's all get on Uncle Sam's bandwagon with its slogan, food fights for freedom. And while en route, you'll find grape nuts and grape nuts flakes make jolly good breakfast company. Good night, folks. And oh, so good. Try grape nut sweetmeal, folks. You should. Hot member of the grape nuts clan. Enjoy it once. You'll be a fan. Yes, grape nut sweetmeal is a treat. It's rich and brown. It's real whole wheat. It brings fine nourishment indeed. One kind your government says you need. It cooks in just three minutes flat, and you'll admit you can't beat that. Get grape nut sweetmeal right away. Hot cereal for a cold fall day.