Okay. You were live, so take it away, Tanya. All right. Hello, everyone. Really excited to be part of this event. We have a great audience, literally from all over the world, and really looking forward to Daniela's presentation. Before I introduce her as a speaker, just a few housekeeping things specific to hyperledger and the local meetups. Most of you may be very familiar with hyperledger and may have been attending our events. I think they do a phenomenal job of regular events, especially the virtual ones and very possible in person. But if you're not familiar with the hyperledger foundation, it's an open-source community that's focused on developing the frameworks and tools and libraries for building enterprise-grade blockchain. It's a global collaboration that includes some of the biggest names in the corporate world. I can't throw all the names, but like Walmart and T-Mobile and American Express Visa, the big consulting companies, some of the hottest startups, they're all part of the membership. There's about 70, close to 70 corporate members. There's an equal number of associate members, and I think five are the strategic members. If you are part of an organization that is into enterprise blockchain, I highly recommend you ask your organization to consider a membership. As you know, we do a lot of great meetups. There is over 100 different locations from locations in India, different parts of Asia Pacific, all across North America and Europe and Latin America. I think it's a global footprint, and the beauty is that we make it available so everyone can join. Now, today's event is being done under the auspices of the Los Angeles and the Southern California meetup, but we literally had a couple of several hundred registrations from all across the world, and I'm anticipating by the time Daniela starts the probably 150 to 200 people attending this event today. Now, as far as the Los Angeles meetup is concerned, we've been doing a lot of virtual events, but I would love to see us get back to in-person. I've been familiar with hyperlature, going back before COVID. I live in the Bay Area and spend my time between the Bay Area and Los Angeles, and we had some great in-person events prior to COVID, and then because of COVID, we had to slow down and stop, but now we are getting back to those in-person meetups. The virtual meetups will continue, but it would be really nice to have at least once a quarter the local community gets together. Last month in Silicon Valley, we had a great event that was posted at Oracle. It was a triple-tree, three very exciting presentations, and there were typical 40-50 people there, and I think there were great interactions during and after the event. So we would love to see that happening in Los Angeles as well. I'm anticipating this couple of dozen people from LA on the call, so if your company is able to open up its facility, we're always looking for locations, so please, you can pick me. Even otherwise, we're looking at different options that I'm hoping in the next couple of months, we'll have our first in-person meetup in Los Angeles, and if you have any questions, you can put it up on the LA meetup page. So that's it. With that, now I want to introduce our speaker. We're really looking forward to her presentation. I attended one of her presentations at the Blockchain Summit in Santa Clara last year, where she spoke about the entire hyperledger ecosystem and what to look out for, and it was a phenomenal presentation, so really excited to have her join us today. Just a little bit about her background. She is the General Manager for Blockchain at the Linux Foundation and the Executive Director for Hyperledger. Someone who is very, very influential in the ecosystem, she is very active, constantly on a plane, going out, meeting with partners, etc., doing events. I think some of you may have heard our conversation last week, she was there at the Consensus by Kind Desk event. It was a great event, and hopefully we'll get you here a little bit from her at the end of her presentation. So today, her talk is going to be on blockchain-based tokenization. There's quite an awful lot of misconceptions that it's quite often it's just NFT or just crypto, and she's going to talk about the bigger picture, and without any further ado, let's bring up Daniela Marbosa. What do you, Daniela? Thank you, Tanveer, for hosting the LA Hyperledger Meetup and the virtual event as well, and for inviting me to come and speak today. I'm very excited about this talk. I see many of you that I know here in the Meetup, so thank you for joining those of you that are long-term members of our community, and I also see a lot of names, including many names from Portugal. So, bon dia a vontade de toda gente em Portugal, e eu sou um português e vivi aqui nos Estados Unidos. So for those of you who don't speak Portuguese, I was just saying greetings to our friends in Portugal. I happen to be a Portuguese-based native living here in San Francisco now for a while. So once again, I want to just make sure that we cover a couple of things in regards to the Hyperledger Foundation. We really have a strong belief that all are welcome in our community. We're really committed to a very safe and welcoming community for all, and this includes in Meetups like this, so please do be respectful. I encourage you to add your location, for example, and hello in the chat and ask your questions with peace. Be respectful one another. We will have some time for Q&A at the end of the session and I've also invited our CTO, Hart Montgomery, to join us for that QTA, for that Q&A session at the end of the presentation today. But all are welcome and we hope that you find a place in the Hyperledger community where you can not only learn about blockchain, but more importantly contribute to what we're building here at the Foundation. For those of you who might be newer to the Hyperledger Foundation, it's a reminder that we're really a consortium of communities building business blockchain technologies and technologies that are related to blockchain as well. We're really diverse in what we cover and there are community covers around the world, obviously financial services and capital markets and supply chain, but really other pieces of very important critical use cases around the energy industry, climate action, media entertainment, education, and very importantly also digital identity. So today we'll focus a bit about tokenization and the opportunities and the things that we see in the marketplace. But ultimately it is really about the community itself. It's about the people here on the phone, the companies you work for, the universities you attend, the communities that you live in that understand that distributed ledger technologies and what we're building here at the Foundation and even across the Linux Foundation is really focused on these use cases across the world. So what makes the Foundation, the Hyperledger Foundation unique? We are an open source not-for-profit and we really, as I just said, hear about focusing about business blockchain technologies. This is enterprise grade and when we talk about enterprises, it doesn't necessarily mean just enterprise use cases, but enterprise grade. That means that any company, small, large, governments, universities, anybody that wants to use the technology can understand that the technology is being developed under an open source, but more importantly open development principles that it has enterprise grade properties. So these projects go through life cycles that really can make people feel confident when they're using the technologies that it's being well supported by a community of global contributors. We are part of the Linux Foundation. The Linux Foundation for the last 20 years has been hosting some of the world's largest and most important open source projects. Things obviously like the Linux kernel, which was part of the Foundation Foundering over 20 years ago. But more recently, things like cloud native computing, which is where Kubernetes sits, or automotive grade Linux, which is where the entertainment systems operating system sits within the Linux Foundation. Pretty much every technology you are touching right now or throughout your day, the Linux Foundation has something to do with it. Hyperledger project was formed in 2015 and one of the first blockchain projects, as to mention, as general manager of blockchain and identity across the LF. I do also have the honor and privilege of supporting many of the other Linux Foundation blockchain and identity projects as well. We are a neutral and collaborative.  And we are also very global. So we have meetups and groups and workshops in different languages, and we're here to support our ever growing global community. And we're really focused on creating a healthy ecosystem of commercial offerings and organizations that are building products and services using the Hyperledger technology, but really being making sure that our development efforts and our community efforts are neutral in regards to commercial offerings. And we do follow many of the industry standards across the board and work with many of the industry organizations in our ecosystem. So we are not, I always like to put this up here, we are blockchain software. The Hyperledger Foundation produces software and the communities that help develop and adopt that software as well. We do not offer a blockchain, we do not run our own blockchain. So there's not going to ever be a Hyperledger coin that's not what we're about. But we're here to be able to develop the software that runs a lot of these systems. We do have other blockchain networks that are running in the Hyperledger, I mean, I'm sorry, in the Linux Foundation organization. For example, there's a project called Open IDL, which is an insurance blockchain network. And that is a blockchain network that's being run by the Linux Foundation. And it runs Hyperledger fabric as well. But Hyperledger Foundation, once again, is not a blockchain space. And we're a global community of developers worldwide. We have thousands of developers that are contributing to across all our many projects as well. And like I said, we're really truly open and I will touch up a little bit farther along on how you can get involved. The Hyperledger Foundation today has over the last six years, we have over 40,000 contributors. These are people contributing to the code, to our communities, to our wikis, to our special interest groups, and a lot of other types of contributions that we track. And we have over 1.27 million contributions already across our various projects that I'll talk about in a while. So we're really a big, diverse community of member companies, government organizations, and individual developers as well worldwide. So for the last six and a half years, we have really grown not only in number of community members, for example, in our meetup community, and you're here in the LA meetup community, we have over 180 meetups worldwide, with over 86,000 meetup participants that have participated in a meetup just like you are today. So the community continues to grow quite globally as well. And we'll talk a bit about our projects and tools in a bit. So very brief history, I am going to take you through like a five minute overview of what has happened in the Hyperledger Foundation since 2015, when the project was launched. As you can see here, there are a lot of projects, lots of dates, but really when you think about where Hyperledger was in 2015, when we started with our first project, which was Hyperledger Fabric, which is still to this day one of the most adopted permission distributed ledger frameworks to where we are today. And there are 15 different projects in our community now that are either inactive, graduated or incubated status as well as 50 different labs. It really is about where the market has gone and how the adoption of these technologies specifically in the enterprise space has really advanced as well. So we'll start off with in 2016, right after the formation of the project, we adopted Hyperledger Fabric as I mentioned before, still the most adopted permission distributed ledger framework out there. We also welcomed Hyperledger Sawtooth Explorer and Eroha. All those are still active projects. So three frameworks and a blockchain explorer tool that came through into the project. By 2017, the market was obviously already advancing when it came to blockchain. And we welcomed two very important or three very important projects into our community. Hyperledger Indy really focused on digital identity. So it is a framework, a DLT framework purposely built for identity solutions. We had our first EVM project, which is Hyperledger Burrow. And Burrow came in as an invent, an Ethereum virtual machine project, because we as a community understood this is 2017 that the Ethereum ecosystem was very interesting to the enterprise long term. And the Burrow EVM was incorporated into some of the other projects. It has since been sunsetted, but we'll talk a bit more about what we're doing in the Ethereum ecosystem in a bit. We also started talking about interoperability. So today, everybody talks about interoperability networks of networks, blockchain to blockchains. And Hyperledger Quilt was one of the first projects that was come in to address what we knew was going to be the need around interoperability in the marketplace. As we moved on into 2018, we adopted Caliper and Ursa really thinking about the tools and libraries that are needed to run these enterprise networks worldwide. 2019 brought upon some additional projects. We had one that was very focused on supply chain with Hyperledger Grid. Hyperledger Aries was pulled out of Indy specifically because of a community that was growing that needed to support other DLTs and other types of frameworks to using it. And Transact and Avalon as well as tools that were brought into the community and pulled in from other parts of the blockchain world as well. In 2019, we also welcomed Hyperledger Basu. And Basu was a contribution from Consensus, the company with Hawaii. And I mentioned Burrow before, which is our first EVM project. And Basu came in as an Ethereum EVM framework. So you can run Hyperledger Basu as a private execution client on Mainnet. And also as a permissioned blockchain as well. And Hyperledger Basu is the core to many of the tokenization projects that you see out there specifically in financial and services. And we'll talk about that in a bit. In 2019, we also launched our labs, our Hyperledger labs. And today there's over 50 different labs all at different stages, all different stages of activities. And we've even recruited labs into our project portfolio as well. And the labs really address different requirements, as I mentioned, in the marketplace. 2020 also brought in Cactus. And the Cactus project was brought in by Accenture and Fujitsu to really start and it came in from the labs as well to address some of the interoperability needs that I mentioned before, but in a new way that is needed by the marketplace. In 2021, we rebranded. So all this advancements in the umbrella of projects, so we have projects umbrellas, and these are all the projects underneath the Hyperledger Foundation. We rebranded it to Foundation because we really were trying to make sure that people understood that it was more than one project, really more than one thing that was happening as well. And in 2021, we welcomed Firefly and Bevel. And then in 2022, we welcomed Solang and Anon Creds. And these are all projects that are now part of the Hyperledger Foundation. And as you see, some projects do go away. We just recently published a project life cycle discussion around how do we go about working with the technical oversight committee to understand the health and the project life cycle of all these projects. Because once again, as I started saying, we want to make sure that these are enterprise-grade projects, that there's a healthy community, and that when any of you or anybody shows up in the community, they can go and access these data points. So very quickly, on what we see in the market, there's a great opportunity for Hyperledger based on what we've been building here for the last seven years. And we really feel that even with the volatility of the crypto market, with all the bad things that sometimes happen, we see the large players, for example, Goldman Sachs and DNY Mellon at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, really talking about not blockchain, but about tokenization and where tokenization is headed. I spent a lot of time over the last seven years using a slide very similar to this one that says blockchain does not equal crypto. Blockchain is not only crypto, but I think there is still a lot of education that is needed in the marketplace for organizations, for governments and policymakers to understand that there are blockchain use cases that do not require crypto or not crypto focused as well.  Obviously, the FTX debacle last year really slows down quite a bit, and there will be very large more problems and issues with the industry just like any other industry. And I just want to remind everybody that fraud and bad practices are not unique to the blockchain industry. What happened with FTX and some of the other recent failures have nothing to do with the technology, have nothing to do with what we hear at the Hyperledger and other communities have been building, but it's just bad business practice and fraud, and that's something I've seen out at the East Ender in March that I thought was happy. But obviously, a lot of when we're talking about financial infrastructure and financial systems, it's really important to understand that regulation is coming. And I think many of us around the world are seeing things like Mika, for example, in Europe as bright signs in that there's going to be some guidance in the marketplaces. In the United States, we obviously know that there's going to be regulation coming forward, and it slows down crypto, and it can certainly slow down enterprise blockchain projects. But what we saw, I was just at a two-day event called the Digital Asset Week here in California where all the top banks and asset providers were also, I was at Consensus, Tver and I were just talking about Consensus last week. This is the Coindex show down in Austin, Texas. Everyone is talking about regulation. I think it'll be welcomed, and it will help, obviously, understand where tokenization projects can go. So when I think about tokenization, I see tokenization as obviously a digital representation of an asset. And an asset could be something, it could be money, it could be stocks, derivatives, real estate or certificates, warehouse receipts, if you're thinking about supply chain and trade finance use cases, loyalty programs, precious metals, a very important use case that we've talked about tokenizing and doing and have been doing within the hyperledger community since 2017 and more and more important, I'll talk about in a bit. And it's really the tokenization is the asset of issuing and managing those tokens as well. What does tokenization help in? It helps in digitalization of assets, obviously, increasing the liquidity of those assets and providing asset management infrastructure. And there's much many asset management infrastructures that are built using hyperledger technologies as well. So when you think about tokenization specifically for enterprises, what can it do? It makes the token so it makes the assets themselves really trackable. If you're thinking about, for example, a supply chain use case or a sustainability use case, supporting automation, supporting automation of trading, of selling, of buying those assets as well. The tokenization of assets allows important and useful information such as attributes and rights and obligations to be put into the asset itself. That helps with things like automation and tracking, tracking of ownership, for example, and how it's traded. And then when tokens can use smart contracts, which then can be programmable. So you can program a lot of business processes throughout the different use cases as well. Tokenization enables enterprises to, for example, track digital twins. This could be food or high quality objects like diamonds or coffees or vehicles or different shipments and really across different ecosystems. It helps control, as I mentioned, because it has specific information that's useful, helps control how the digital systems make changes to those assets and how the rules or the smart contracts use them as well. And really enables more secure and transparent transfer ownership of these assets as well across different use cases. So it really provides different opportunities, the ability to provide benefits from efficiencies and reduction in fraud and error. And we see quite a lot of those use cases being brought up and creating new opportunities. We are all the world's always looking for new opportunities to build new businesses, new opportunities for different regions, for example, to take advantage of it. And tokenization really does provide new functionalities in business models that tokenization provides as well. A couple of use cases I'll just very quickly follow through. So in supply chain, I've mentioned this before, tokenizing goods and products as they move through supply chains. This does enable transparency and traceability. And we're seeing a lot of use cases. For example, Circular is an organization that is doing a very complex supply chain traceability in the automotive industry. Very specifically, a lot of their recent use cases around battery, the minerals for EV, electronic vehicle batteries. And just recently, the European Union put out a regulation specific to a battery passport that actually requires the minerals that are being used in your electronic vehicle battery to be from mine all the way to the delivery into the car. And even when the car is recycled, to be tied into a battery passport that is trackable for sustainability requirements, as well as for circularity. So being able to use those systems again. And I will actually, let me put a link into the slides here and you all can follow along. There's a lot of great links in all my slides. I think they're great because I put them in there, but useful links that all of you can follow along with to see additional videos and additional presentations, case studies on these use cases that I mentioned as well. Simba is another one. Once again, actually working with military and airplane parts, supply chains, and a couple of other use cases that are quite interesting as well. So I put that in there. Feel free to follow along. So it is all about money and tokens and games as well. So recently, Citi Bank put out a report called money tokens and games that talked about the success of blockchain adoption being measured by the number of users who don't really realize what the technology is that they're using. Some of the highlights that they put together is that CBDCs could be used by two to four billion users globally by 2030, and 50% of that will be DLT distributed ledger based. There will be central bank digital currencies that will not use blockchain for sure, but many and I'll talk about them in a bit. There's over three million gamers currently that are obviously targets for Web 3 and different tokenization aspects from a gaming perspective and arts and collectibles and NFTs and digital collections. These are all opportunities for monetization across the ecosystem. If you think about digital currencies, I mentioned CBDCs. A lot of benefits of tokenizing currency is allowing peer-to-peer transactions and cross-border payments, reducing the transaction times and costs, and removing those intermediaries between banks, for example, allowing for faster and more efficient payments between peer-to-peers as well, and making banking services more accessible to the unbanked and underbanked populations. This is something here at the Hyperledger Foundation and many of our community really care about is being able to make sure that we're not building this same old system for the same old people. We need to make sure that technologies that we're putting into place do enable an ability for financial services and financial inclusion to be brought around the world. It's not just in regions that we normally hear about. Even in the United States, there's still a lot of underbanked and underbanked people as well. Two of the examples that I brought up there that you can read more about, the Bank de France. They recently actually did a workshop, a four-hour workshop with their technical partner, IVM, talking about their wholesale CBDC using Hyperledger Fabric and Cacti, the Interoperability Project. They also highlighted the Token SDK, which I want to highlight today. If you click on that recent workshop, you can see a little bit of the overview that that webinar did around the Token SDK, which is going to be an important element in our community in regards to tokenization. We'll have a more in-depth workshop coming up hopefully in the next few weeks, if not months. We also recently heard from the Banco Centrado Brasil that they selected Hyperledger Bezu for their CBDC projects, but it's a common thing across the world that we're seeing Hyperledger projects, primarily Fabric and Bezu, being selected for CBDC projects, experimentations, etc. We've been working very closely with many of these central banks to make sure that they have a seat at the table as to when these open-source technologies are being developed, that they also have a voice in it. Last year, we published a Hyperledger in Action Central Bank Digital Currencies e-book that you can read about a lot of those central bank tokenization projects, as well. I talked a bit about financial inclusion, and I wanted to highlight one use case that has been brought to market using Hyperledger Sawtooth, a company called Bondi Value. Their product is called Bond Blocks X. Really, the problem that we're trying to address is that the international bond market has a very high-level minimum investment, US$200,000, which makes it not only expensive for regular people, but even for more wealthy people as well. There are a lot of people who would want to potentially invest in the international bond market, but they couldn't. Bondi Value really focused on that use case and getting that market really prepared for the tokenizations of these bonds and being able to create environments for it. They launched Bondi Value and basically is being able to think about fractionalizing the bond market to allow people like you and me to buy into these projects as well. You can read the case study and also watch the webinars that we recently had. Another use case that I like to mention in regards to collateralized assets is a platform called Finality. Finality now has over 17 of the major institutions as shareholders, including some of the banks that you see there online, back in Santander and then NBY, Mellon, Barclays, and many more. It really is important to understanding how Finality, which is built on Hyperledger Basu, is creating collateral, taking the collateral assets and tokenizing them amongst the Finality network in order to reduce credit risk and to be able to move the money around through the banking system much, much faster. So you can also, I don't see a link on this one. I'll put a link later on into the deck on this one as well. When you think about tokenization and fractalization, the efficiencies of the markets that blockchain can enable, we also start thinking about the efficiencies and the gains that we can have for things, for example, in regards to climate action that I believe that things like green bond tokenization can really help with. Last year, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, working with the BIS Innovation Lab, launched this prototype that really helps the green bonds ecosystem. So once again, making sure that investors can sell bonds that are really focused on sustainability and environmental goals. And I noticed this one doesn't have a link too, so I'll fix that one too as I go through it. So a couple other use cases we talked about, central bank digital currencies and digital currencies as a whole, so tokenizing money. We talked about bond tokenization and loyalty and rewards continues to be programs that we see tokenization of. And these are reward programs that offer digital tokens as incentives. So imagine you go somewhere to shop in the case of post-italian, which is the postal system in Italy, perhaps any of the postal systems services that they offer, and you do get credit points. KBC is a bank in Belgium that created the Katecoin coin, which is a programmable money that also uses hyperledger fabric. And these tokens can be used to purchase goods and services that are then traded on blockchain marketplaces as well. And it is a way of rewarding participants obviously in different multi-party systems that people participate in as well. So it's estimated that the private equities market is four times the size of the public markets. So I believe, and I was just in this meeting for the last two days around digital assets, where private equities markets will definitely see a high level of adoption rates of blockchain. And the reason is because you can really create liquidity in the private markets by utilizing blockchain and tokenization, transparency in the markets, which is important as you open up these markets to a greater pool of users and customers. And the ability to fractionalize these properties and these assets to breaking them down to feasible points where people can actually afford to buy them and start becoming investors. So when we think about asset-backed tokens, so taking real-world assets such as gold or real estate or artwork that then can be represented as digital tokens, as I mentioned before, and I think something that really is key to making sure that we're not building some of the same systems over and over again, is helping enable the fractionalization. So lowering the amounts that individuals and even small organizations need to invest in different assets and allowing, obviously allowing for more investors to participate in these funding processes. Two things I'd like to point out, one is Toco. Toco is DL Piper. DL Piper is one of the largest legal firms in the world. It's a tokenization engine that does digital asset creation and it uses hyperledger fabric as well as the Hedera public blockchain, which is where the liquidity is being created and basically the assets being minted on the Hedera blockchain. But it's a really interesting access because they are doing tokenization of apartment buildings, homes, art. I believe horses. I saw horses somewhere. I tried to look them up in the website yesterday. I couldn't find it, but imagine high value, high worth assets that today can be owned by multiple people through the tokenization of those assets. So Toco is a pretty interesting project. IPUE is another one that does asset management. It's an intellectual patent management platform and it's really an interesting use case.  You download one of those, hey, how to raise money to VC's deck and then you put in on one of those slides and I have a patent on this, right? And you go from VC to VC to VC and you try to raise capital so that you can build the business that you want to build based on the expertise that you have and that patent that potentially you have as well. And suddenly, that VC and that investment firm, and sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, now owns part of that patent as well because it owns kind of part of that company. The IPUE allows you to actually do things like putting your patents up and creating a way for people to invest in the patents. So creating a fractalization of those IPs and the individuals purchase the patent but not necessarily your company as well. So a lot of great use cases and new business opportunities that are being opened up. And tokens, obviously, we do NFTs and in the title Tavaire and I looked when we created the title, it's not about crypto and NFTs. No, we don't have crypto coins here at Hyperledger, but we do have a lot of people building some wonderful NFT platforms. One of the first NFT platforms that went to market was Panini. In 2018, it is an 100-year-old company that sells cards and gear like a football soccer gear. And Panini launched the blockchain NFT platform called the Panini platform in 2018 using Hyperledger sawtooth is still active and trading. Every time I go there, there's lots of still trades happening. Another one is Palm. As you see here on the screen, the Palm network is running on Hyperledger Basu. They're the folks behind DC comments, but we see the tokenization of NFTs of art, of digital representation of art, and even NFTs in, for example, music and entertainment. There are many use cases that are using Hyperledger Fabric and Basu in the community to tokenize these types of assets as well. So a couple of things before we break out into Q&A, we are here to tell the story of what our community has been built and to basically to shepherd the code projects, the special interest groups in the community that falls under the Hyperledger Foundation. If you're interested specifically in tokenization, I pulled out some of the resources that I think you should take a look at. Our special interest groups are open for anyone to participate. You can get involved. You can listen in on the calls. Most of them have bi-weekly calls that you can participate in. They have Discord channels and different Wiki pages where you can see, as well as YouTube channels. The Hyperledger supply chain and trade finance, obviously, lots of discussions around tokenization in specific supply chain and trade finance use cases. In the Hyperledger financial markets, that special interest group used to be called the Capital Markets Group. Now it's financial markets. Lots of discussions around the technical requirements, for example, of tokens, like which ERC tokens, for example, are being used and where lots of great talks there. And there's also a mortgage industry subgroup. If you're interested in real estate specifically in tokenization of real estate just recently, two or three weeks ago, they had a presentation specific to that topic and it's come up before. So the mortgage industry subgroup is an interesting one for tokenization of real estate. And they have a YouTube chagall. And last but not least, very importantly, the climate action and special interest group where tokenization really drives a lot of the use cases around climate action from accounting as well as tracking and sustainability. You can access those Wiki pages and the YouTube channels as well. A couple other things you are in this meetup as well. They are meetups around tokenizations that are being done by the community, which means that the community itself is sharing what they've built, how they build it, what are the issues they might have run into it or issues and considerations that the community needs to think about, and opportunities. Where are the business opportunities as well? So our meetups are global. As I mentioned, we have 180 meetup groups worldwide, over 84,000 people participating. And you can join those as well. And then workshops. We have lots of free workshops that we offer. These tend to be anywhere from two to four hours, learning how to, for example, use Hyperledger Firefly to build your NFT projects to what we did last week, or actually earlier this week. Maybe it was last week, I think it was with the Banque de France around central bank digital currencies. And as I mentioned before, that also highlighted the token SDK, which is an important project within the Hyperledger fabric community at this point. And you can always sign up for those workshops. They're free, or you can watch the recorded videos as well as they are available. So I'm going to go ahead and introduce, I'm going to introduce Hart Montgomery, who's our CTO, and then we can open it up for question and answers. Hart, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. All right. Stop sharing as well. Awesome. All right. All right. Ken Berry, do you want to open up for questions? And I'll take a look at the chats who I see some of them coming through here. Yeah, while you're doing the Daniela, a couple of folks asked if the slides are being made available, they definitely are. A link has already been shared where you can find the copy of the slides. The video is also available on YouTube. You can go to the Hyperledger channel on YouTube and you can find today's recording. Yeah. And feel free, the slides are in Google. If for some reason you cannot access Google, please ping me. I'll put my email in there. I'll send you a PDF or a PowerPoint version of it. I know some people can't access Google. And please feel free to use those slides in your own presentations, in your own discussions. They are all offered under copyright, open copyright. So Daniela, there's a question here. Is the tokenization starting to impact in museum assets or paper archives? You able to comment on that? I don't know personally of any use cases specifically using Hyperledger technologies in that use case in museums. Now I know, as I mentioned, Toco is doing, I think they have a partnership, but they're working with a partnership with SolarVease. So there are definitely use cases in the ecosystem. I don't know of any. One of the most, maybe the most beautiful thing about my job, and just last week in consensus, as you mentioned, our booth is full of people coming by talking to us about how they're using blockchain and particularly how they're using Hyperledger. And one of the best things about my job is I get to discover, sometimes on a day-to-day basis, new use cases, new people and companies and organizations using the Hyperledger technologies to build their products and services as well. So I'll give you an example. Down at Consensus, we had Rio Tinto come through and they gave us an overview of a supply chain system that they have over, I think, 100 customers already on using Hyperledger fabric that has been in production for two years. I never knew about it. No one ever told me. No one ever told us, right? These are the kind of things that are fantastic. So we can look around and see if there's anything in our archives as well and share that with you. Great, Danila. Another question. Has any insurance platform been built on Hyperledger yet? Yes. So there's been a couple of insurance platforms. One that I would recommend, and I mentioned this before, and let me see if I can pull out the URL, is the OpenIDL network. So OpenIDL happens to be a sister project. So if you recall, when I started, I talked about the Linux Foundation being an umbrella of multiple projects, Hyperledger Foundation being one of them. One of our sister projects is called OpenIDL, which is an open blockchain network specifically built for the insurance industry. And I'll put this into the chat there. I should be calling it in the chat. There you go. And that is running Hyperledger fabric. Some of the top carriers are participating, including Hartford, Hanover, and Travelers. Very cool. Another question here. Can anyone tokenize their existing physical assets? An example would be a rare NBA trading card. Could you tokenize it as an NFT or would it cost? Thank you. Now if you thought we're going to forget that some of you told us that you died, Michael Jackson in a cage, burning, telling you to repent. Now, what are you really thinking? Because I was in the church and they were passing those DVDs around. David, I think, gave me up too. Yeah, sorry about that. I was... And my question is, you did ask for an autograph.   A photo with the queen coming to tell us they were borrowing water. Why don't you give them water? Now, Michael, you're in the wrong forum. Yeah. Sorry, you were in the wrong forum. If you have a relevant question, please do ask it. Okay. Can you go ahead and answer that question again? Sorry. Physical assets. You got that. I thought we were interrupted. Yeah. Can you repeat it again, please? Yeah. So can anyone tokenize their existing physical assets? An example would be an NBA trading pod. Could you tokenize it as an NFT or would it cost potential copyright infringement? That's a good question. I don't know. So as an individual, you've purchased something and a physical item. Was it on the chat? Yes. It's from Eric. Yeah. So I'm thinking if you were in the 90s, you had these collectibles and they're physical items that are in your possession. If you were to create an NFT from it and sell it in the open market. So if someone in a remote location buys the NFT, would that be okay? Or do you think eventually one of those companies might say, hey, you're tokenizing something that's still copyrighted? I guess that's the main thing I'm concerned about. I think in that case, the digital representation of the NFT would be tied to the physical item. Correct. So your NBA trading card would have a digital representation that would be an NFT. But you can sell that multiple times. But I'm not a copyright expert. Maybe someone else here has knowledge of that. I guess I was just curious to see if on the consumer side or if that's something that we might see starting to happen, just because then at least there would be something physical associated with NFT and that just purely the artworks that have been sold. Yeah. Well, if somebody here in the meetup, because it's an interactive meetup, has an answer to that or an opinion on that, please do raise your hand.  So for those of you don't know, if you click on reactions in the Zoom and then just raise your hand. David, you have raised your hands enabled, right?  I don't think the host necessarily sees it. Okay. Elizabeth, go ahead. They're an example in the climate action accounting group. There's an ERC 1155 token that represents emissions to the carbon emissions. And I think there might be working on one that represents carbon reductions, removals. Then in the giving chain, another hyperledger project doesn't use fabric like CA2SIG does, but uses Firefly instead and has a token that represents a donation. And so that if you donate something through the non-profit organization, you get an NFT that actually is a photograph of your donation over. Okay. Thank you, Elizabeth. Can you put those two examples? Do you mind putting those two examples into the meeting chat and then we'll pull them and then add them to the deck? Yeah, that'd be great. So those are two additional examples around tokenization. Did anybody have potentially an answer or a comment to Eric's question around your personal items that you NFT and around copyright infringement? If not, we can go, if anybody circles back around, just raise your hand if you want to talk about that topic. Do you want to go on to the next question? Yeah, before we do, there's one other question. Before we do that, I think there's some suggestions or also questions on tokenization for precious metals or energy sector. So we will look for some experts in that specific domain, right? And we could invite them for subsequent need-up and they could delve into the details of tokenizing some of those assets. So I can add a couple of things on there. So I mentioned circular, it's in the deck, one of the examples. Circular is doing lithium and other type of minerals that are needed for electronic vehicle batteries and some other automotive components as well. And the interesting point there is one is being able to track at a supply chain. If you think about the minerals, right, and they actually the changes that happen from the minute they get pulled out of the mine to the point when it's in your car and you go pick it up, really changes. That supply chain is a very difficult one to track and monitor as it goes through multi-tier suppliers, multi-regulation regulated industries. And it's a very interesting marketplace where blockchain is really helping enable that traceability of those minerals into products themselves. The other thing is sustainability. So more and more we're seeing regulation. And this is not only in the electronic vehicle industry, but in any lithium battery industry, which is pretty important sustainability, making sure that these minerals are not pulled from mines that are not safe for the employees and safe for the environment as well. And we can definitely get some experts on that topic. And Hart has done a great job answering almost all of the questions. So really appreciate that, Hart. This one came up here, I think he's answering that, any compliance component of the system. So many of you, some of you posted questions, Hart has answered some of them through the chat. Daniela, how are we doing on time? Could we take one or two more questions and then get started in wrapping up? So there seems a lot of interest and precious metal organization. So we'll look for some speakers and try and address that and subsequent meetups, meetup events. Last one, questions regarding asset token. So we tokenize real assets, where would, for example, that I didn't understand that question, question regarding asset tokenization. So we tokenize your assets, where would, for example, I hadn't get that question. What is the process of creating a hyperledgeous special interest group? I think this is for David. Scott Morgan raised the question, now you're talking about creating a meetup, like we have multiple cities, is that your question, Scott? Yeah, I can speak to Scott's questions in here, let me put my email address in here too, so Scott wants to follow up on me. So if anybody is interested here, just one second, let me just drop my email. So all of our special interest groups are driven by the community, it's not hyperledger staff who determines what our groups are, it's really people in the community who step up and say, hey, I'm really interested in exploring this area and then we'll support them. That's what happens, has happened with all of the groups that we have today. So for example, I support the Climate Action and Accounting Interest Group, and that was there was somebody involved with climate exploring how blockchain is being used in the climate space, he reached out to us and said, I think this is going to be important, I want to build a community around it and we supported him. So Scott or anybody, if you think there's a special interest group that we don't currently have, but would be worth exploring, feel free to reach out to us and we can help you reach out to the community, see if there's enough interest and then if there is, that's really the only requirement we have around starting a new special interest group, see if other people would like to join that effort, see if there is enough of a community to form a group and then we'll help you start that group and promote it and build a community around it. Thank you for answering that, David. And one other question, have you, how you see asset tokenization in face of regulators as the discussion, especially from the SEC, raises between the classification of it as utilities or securities? So I, the foundation as a whole doesn't get involved in policy work, there's a lot of great organizations worldwide that are working with the policy makers. As I mentioned just yesterday, I was a digital assets event here in San Francisco, where the commissioner for the CTIF, the CTIC was there talking about who does the regulation of digital assets in the United States. I think it's a known thing that needs to be done and there will be some regulatory, I'm hoping, I think we're all hoping that there's going to be regulatory clarifications over the next maybe year or so in the US. For those who haven't looked at the European MECA legislation, definitely take a look at that. Europe is leading the way in creating a place where people can understand how to build digital asset businesses and what to do and not do for starters. And I think the US and other regions will follow as well. That's great. Yeah, there's some positive feedback as well, Daniel. People have appreciated the presentation. So thank you again to you and Art for joining us. Before we wrap up, just another reminder that for those of who are able to make it to Silicon Valley, there is the blockchain event in Silicon Valley. It's for enterprise blockchain, was a very successful event last year. And on day two, which is Thursday the 18th May, there is an in-person hyperledger meetup. I'm assuming both you and Daniel, I will be there at the meetup like last year. Yes. Okay, wonderful. So it's an opportunity to meet the hyperledger executives there and it's have we posted the agenda for that, David, of what will be covered at the meetup or that's, you know, will be posted soon. Yeah, I had dropped the link in Zoom chat earlier. Yes, and it's available on the Blockchain Expo website. So yes. Okay, perfect. Hey, I think we had a great event. Well, over 100 people joined different parts of the world, phenomenal questions and Daniel, again, thank you so much for the presentation and hard for, you know, chiming in and answering a bunch of the questions. With that, I'd like to propose we wrap things up. We're getting close to the end of the hour. David, as usual, really appreciate everything you do for the community. I know how you do it, supporting all these groups, you know, over 100 of them, but great work, these virtual events and as soon as we find a location for Los Angeles in particular, we'll announce an in-person event for the Southern California community. Yeah, and thank you, Tim, for putting this together and for everybody for joining and just to speak to the side on the screen, if you have additional questions, this is not the end of the opportunities to ask them. You know, the Zoom chat will go away when we close this meeting, but we do have a permanent chat server. We use Discord. It's open. If you have additional questions, join us there. I dropped a link to it. There's also this QR code you can scan, but again, we're going to close this meet up here in a minute, but we do want to continue the discussion. Join us on Discord or any of the open calls in the community and we'd be looking forward to seeing you again another time and answering any other questions or engaging in any other discussion you'd like to have. So thanks. Thank you all. Thank you all for your time and for attending, and I'll go ahead and put the notes into the agenda, into the deck as well for everybody to have access to. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thanks.


Okay, so about me, my name is George Clifford Williams. You can email me at GCW at eightions.com. The G in my name stands for George. I load the name George. So you can call me that if you like. I probably won't respond. I go by Cliff, live in Chicago, married, no kids, two dogs, love spoiling my nieces and nephews. Highly opinionated, practically agnostic means that when it's time to discuss the merits of something, I will gladly say what I think is the best solution. But when it comes to actually getting work done, it's not time for deciding anymore, so it's just time to get work done. In my day job, I spend a lot of time consulting with clients to put things in the cloud, to help them develop better CI CD pipelines. I do all the things that get labeled as DevOps, and I try to automate as much as possible. So what I talk about here is all from the perspective of someone who digs deeply into delivering packages to the cloud. So understanding the problem. If you are a developer or if you support developers by pushing out applications, typically someone's developing code and they find an operating system to deploy it on and everything works out perfectly and there are never any problems. In Dreamland, this view of your application is not really tied to the real world. A slightly more realistic view of it is that you have a kernel that your application will need services from. On top of that, you have a library of some sort that interfaces with system calls. You have your user land utilities and then packages that get installed. And then finally, your application code gets deployed. This, by the way, applies to Pozixy-type systems, Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, the sort. If you're on something that's not Pozixy, then I'm sorry, but I say it doesn't really apply to you. So this is the way it really looks as compared to the kind of loose idea of how your application deployment might work.  So if you upgrade your operating system, let's say, can somebody name an operating system or distribution that they use, just for one out? FreeBSD, okay. So let's say you deploy your application on FreeBSD and then you need to do an upgrade. You could upgrade packages, you could upgrade your base operating system. Hopefully everything goes well, but if it doesn't, your application may break in interesting ways. And when that happens, you might have to rework your code or you might have to back out the upgrade. Now, why would it break? There could be conflicts with versions of libraries, there could be a security fix that forces a change of some tool or things could just get deprecated, which is pretty common. So what if your application isn't affected by an upgrade but is affected by needing something different? Maybe a tool that conflicts with another tool or a newer version of something that's already on your system. There's a chance that you could use a private repository. On FreeBSD systems, it's pretty easy to use the packaging system to say, go fetch this set of packages from another place. Similarly on Red Hat or Ubuntu, you can point to other repositories, add that into the mix of the repositories that you use to deploy your application and hopefully everything will be fine. If it isn't, you could download and compile something yourself and the enterprise frequently, Java is a requirement that people need to download because there's specific versions that come with most enterprise operating systems or distributions and then your application may require a different version. So downloading and compiling yourself, it actually used to be the common way that people would deploy applications, now it's rare. Alternatively, if your operating system has a maintainer for a particular package, you can reach out to them and say, hey, I need a new version of this, hopefully they'll get back to you. Sometimes they don't. If you're needing something that conflicts, a good example of this is SSL. There are many SSL libraries out there. Everybody's starting to be more security conscious with the way that they develop applications, so TLS and SSL are pretty common. Your application may require a different version of a TLS library than what comes with your operating system and that can cause problems. So one way to deal with that is with the Troup jail or containers, Linux containers, jails, Solaris Zones, that kind of thing, or environment management, something like virtual inv on Python, or if you're using a Java app, setting the Java home, Lua apps can use Lua path, the kind of thing that lets you set a narrow focus for your application to find the tools that it needs. Alternatively, you can just wait and hope that whatever tool that you need becomes the prevalent tool for your distribution or operating system. A consideration in all of this is how you're actually deploying your code. It's not uncommon for people to write their code, tire it up, ship it over the wire with SSH or something, or put it on like a gift server, go out to machine, pull it down, and consider that a deployment. Also, some people package their apps in the native format for their operating system, so in FreeBSD it would be a port, on Red Hat it would be an RPM, or a Debian on, I'm sorry, a Deb, on a Debian and Ubuntu systems. You could package it in the runtime for a language that you're building in, so if it's a JavaScript app, maybe it's an NPM package, or a RubyGem, a LuaRap, Pyconic, et cetera. You could also do a make file. Maven and Ant are really just fancy make systems, so you can specify where files should go, ship that along with your tarball, sorry, ship that along with your tarball, and hope for the best. Then there are kind of smarter tools for doing all of the above. PuppetChef, AnsibleSalt, Tivoli, BladeLogic. They all do configuration management, basically take a set of files from here, put them over there, and it's better than doing things by hand, but when it comes to deploying applications, it's not the best solution. So the statement, the problem statement, what I'm here to talk about and try to solve is that when you build your applications on top of the facilities provided by your operating system, you could be locking yourself into an ecosystem that does not meet the needs of your application and or customers. And the solution is to build your applications to be independent of the underlying operating system and its packages. So what that would look like in practice is you have your kernel, again, your library that interfaces with the system calls, your user land utilities, and alongside your system packages, you have a set of packages that meet all the dependencies for your application. And then your application goes on top of the dependencies. And this can be duplicated so that you can have multiple instances of dependencies for your applications and deploy your applications on specific stacks just for those particular applications. So some of the ways that this helps with application delivery, release management, et cetera, is you get fully autonomous applications, meaning that you can upgrade your operating system and packages without worrying about breaking the dependencies for your applications. This means that if you're on Ubuntu and you have to do an upgrade because of some security patch, you don't have to worry about going back and reworking code to work with the new dependencies or with the new stack. You can create multiple application silos that contain conflicting libraries and tools. So if one application requires a particular version of, let's say, Libre SSL and something else requires OpenSSL, you can install those right alongside each other and they will not conflict because of the isolation that you get from autonomous application setups. Your deployments can be standardized across multiple operating systems. So a lot of the clients that I've worked with have a mandate to not have more than 50% of any one distribution or operating system be, not to have any one distribution or operating system be more than 50% of their deployment. That means frequently working with SLES and Red Hat and FreeBSD and Ubuntu and HPUX and Solaris in some constellation all at once. Taking the approach of building your dependency separately from your operating system means that you can deploy your application on any operating system with one set of configuration and not have to worry about specialties and file paths conflicting. You can isolate the exposure to security flaws in underlying libraries. That goes back to, again, there's some update that needs to happen. It can happen whether it's in your application or on the operating system. So if your application uses a particular version of a library and you discover that there's vulnerability, you can fix that in your application and not worry about it causing a problem with your operating system. The features of your application can develop at your pace, not the pace of your operating system's package maintainer. So if you need new features, you can go out and get those new features implemented in your code and not have to wait for the next version of your OS. And you still have access to all of your system packages. So what this approach really does is let you decide what the delineation is between a platform on your network and the application and its dependencies. And you can swap out the application, you can swap out the platform. It really doesn't matter because they're completely orthogonal to each other. One doesn't depend on the other. So I think that sounds great. Let's presume that all of you are on board and you wanna get started with that. There are several frameworks that come out of the box with the ability to let you do this on a POSIXE system. POSIXE again, I mean Linux, HP UX, Solaris, something like that. There's Package Source, which is part of the NetBSD project. It's very similar to FreeBSD ports or any of the other BSDs ports systems. There's Open Package, which was started by a former FreeBSD contributor named Ralph S. Ingleshaw. He used to be the security or a security officer. And he was also a founder of OpenSSL. There's the Nix Package Manager. It's currently mostly Linux specific and driven by the NixOS operating system. I happen to prefer Package Source. It has more than 1,700 packages available and includes all of the big things that people need in most deployments. Internet, varnish, databases like Postgres. Just about everything that you would need. It offers you the choice of binary or source builds. So systems like Gen2, FreeBSD, OpenBSD.  If you don't have time for that, you can do binary builds of your packages and pre-stage them and use something simple to install analogous to a YUM install or an app. Install. It's really easy to set up. The multiple prefixes are what allow you to set up the application silos. So a quick example is that I had a client who had several Ruby on Rails applications that they needed to install and many of them required different versions of Ruby to run. They were all deployed on one machine using Package Source with a different prefix defined for every application that needed to be run. A prefix is basically a path for the dependencies and you can have as many as you need. It's a simple straightforward process to package your own applications. So when I was talking before about how you might deploy your applications using a tarball or a make file, if you package your applications in the Package Source format, you can have something like salt, ansible, chef, puppet, et cetera, go out to a box and install your application as a package, which also lets you be able to do rollbacks seamlessly and upgrades seamlessly. It's easy to fork the repository and add dependencies that you need. So when you check out Package Source, it comes with 1700 plus packages, but if there's something that you want that's not in there, you can add it very easily. And it has unprivileged operation, meaning that you can deploy Package Source for a given user and let that user manage its own dependencies for an application stack. And you can do that for multiple users and they'll never conflict. Package Source is also portable, gets its whole own slide for portability. I don't know if anybody in here has run show of hands. Has anyone run more than two of these? Okay, so, okay, three people, great. So daily, I tend to work with at least three of these and having Package Source set up with autonomous deploys for deployments means that there's much less gnashing of teeth when it's time to do deployments. Okay, so what does it look like? This is what it takes to get going with a very basic installation of Package Source.  You then change into the directory that's created and then go into Bootstrap. You run a Bootstrap script, takes about 15 minutes and then you're all set to go. Then you can CD into a application path, Package Source development cache in this instance and then type make install clean. What that will do is build the package, it will install the package and then it will clean up all the temp files that were created as a result. And you can do that for every single part of your application stack. So the idea, again, is to decide what you need for a system to be on your network and then decide what you need for your application to be able to be installed and treat the two as completely separate. And here, the Package Source develop Memcache D. When you do the install there, it will install to the prefix that's defined in the environment. So if I needed Memcache installed five different times, I could rerun this command five different times with a different prefix and have different separate installations that I could then run in parallel as peers. So can someone name a run time or language that they use to deploy applications to? Something like Python, JavaScript, anything? Sorry? So you use Capistrano for actually doing the deployments? Okay, are you deploying Ruby apps? Okay, so do you ever have problems with gem versions? So with a setup like this, you would do the bootstrap, you'd go in, build Ruby, then build Capistrano on another system, you could build Capistrano to do the actual deployments. For those who don't know, Capistrano is simply a tool that goes out and it lets you use Ruby code to specify a set of things to happen on a remote server. Similar in some respects to tools like Ansible, except that it's not, it's imperative, meaning that you actually have to do every step very much like a shell script. So you would have your Ruby script, or I'm sorry, you'd build Ruby as your application dependency and all of the gems that come along with it would also be part of that dependency bundle. And you would have a definition in Capistrano to say this is what's required for my application, including Ruby, every single gem, and then deploy that. When you needed to upgrade, you would simply redefine the versions of the packages required for that, rerun your Capistrano script, and then you'd have an upgrade that doesn't care what version of Ruby is required by utilities in your system. So I'm trying to think of a good Ruby utility that's commonly installed, and I can't. But in a situation like this, your application is completely safe from any changes that happen with the operating system packages using Capistrano. So I ended up burning through my slides pretty quickly. I will now take questions if anybody has any. No question? I just wanted to ask, how does this stack up against me just pushing my application into a container? Like, why will I not go with a Docker container, put all my dependencies in it, and ship it everywhere, instead of using one of the tools that you just mentioned? Great question. And thank you for asking it. So how does this compare to containers, basically? One, containers exist on, well, if you're talking about Docker containers, or LXC type containers, then only on one platform, Linux. There are different distributions, so you can have Red Hat, or Boom 2 Origin 2, or whatever, but it's still one platform. The clients that I work with can't have just one platform, so they need a solution that works on multiple things, Solaris, FreeBSD, et cetera. This is a solution that works on those, and okay, because I'm known as a strong advocate for BSD systems, sometimes people think that I'm aligning other platforms, and I'm not. The fact of the matter is that containers frequently hang in ominous ways. You don't have to worry about weird, unrecoverable hangs with a system like this. It's very lightweight, straightforward. If you need network level isolation, then it gets a little bit tricky, so containers may work for you there, or if you're in an environment where you have access to more robust container systems, like Zones on Solaris, or Jails on FreeBSD, then there's kind of an administrative overhead trade-off, like would you rather manage containers or manage just the application dependencies, so that's basically the difference in trade-off there. Thanks. Sure thing. Hey, hi. Hello. So my question is regarding, let's say for example, when I upgrade my OS, and let's suppose the TLS package has been upgraded, but then my code and my web server and everything is all of a sudden breaking. Now, if I use packet source and install the previous version, then what's the point of sort of upgrading or having the newest security update in the first place? Then this is sort of like, is this more of a temporary fix that we do so that things are in production, and then we try to make it more compatible to the newer TLS libraries or something like that? I'm sorry, I lost you at the end there. You said is this more... Like for example, if the OS has come up with the new TLS library, right? And if we use packet source to have the previous TLS library, which is more compatible with my web server for now, then I can still have everything in production and nothing would break, right? Yes. Now, in that case, what's the point of upgrading the OS in the first case then is packet source only for a temporary measure or what do you recommend? Okay, so if I understand your question correctly, you're saying that if I can handle all of my application dependencies without touching the operating system, what's the point in ever upgrading the operating system? Well, no, I want to upgrade the operating system so that I can have the latest TLS package, right? And, but if I'm gonna go reverse compatible and install the previous TLS package using packet source, then what's the point? Then is this a temporary measure? Like we use packet source as a temporary measure so that everything is working fine and once we resolve all of the issues, then we just knock this off completely. Gotcha, okay. So, packet source in this case would not be a temporary measure. It's the way you build your application stack, right? So, from whatever layer forward, and that's something that needs to be decided by a dev or engineering team, saying that, okay, we have Java, right? Let's say it's a OpenJDK 1.8. Everything from that point forward is part of our application stack. You may need to do rollbacks, but that's related to your application, not to your operating system. And so you would need to start thinking about this division between the platform and the app. What needs to happen in one doesn't need to happen in the other. And it's not that you are using one as a short-term fix. It's just the way that things are from that point forward. Does that answer your question? Yeah, it sort of does, but yeah, again, what happens is that each application has like hundreds of dependencies. Let's say for example, if I have a node application and it has Bcrypt and Bcrypt relies on these browser packages which come along, right? And then if I created the browser, then now everything starts to break. So I don't have to just fix my code, I'll have to probably dig into my dependency that is the Bcrypt library and then modify it. So it's got to pick the right version of the package that it needs. So yeah, of course, it answers the question, but it's just a lot of work around as well. Oh, I see. So you're talking about the administrative overhead of having package source packages. Yeah, going forward, yes. Yes, so that's a concern, just as it is with containers, right? So if you have a containerized system, which by the way, I'm sorry, I should have mentioned before with containers, there's one additional consideration with containers in that many people get prepackaged containers and there were recent audits of many prepackaged containers and something like 70x percent of them had really egregious security flaws in them. And these, not like an app had like a buffer overflow in it, but like bad configuration that like a systems engineer would like never do. But yes, you then have at least two sets of packages to maintain, right? Your operating system packages and the packages related to your application. But again, it's really easy to manage package source repositories. You have things coming from upstream from the NetBSD project, you also have, and there are many contributors to that. So Joiant that happens to run a huge cloud platform, they're active contributors to the package source project. So it gets a lot of updates, you know, like fairly quickly. And if you need to go out and do something on your own, it's really easy to do. But yes, you're right, there is administrative overhead there. I think it's worth the trade off. It may not be if you're always deploying to one platform. Yes. I'm sorry, I lost you at the end. Oh, resource isolation. Yeah, package source does not do that. It's simply a way for you to install dependencies for your application. And anything that you need beyond that, you have to have either a user-laid facility to do it, like something that comes with Daemon Tools or Runnit that does that or use an operating system facility like Capsicum or Jails or Zones or some other thing like that. Anybody else? I can probably deal with, say, how an application needs to run. I'll take it as a model. How do you deal with it? What's the more distortion of the program until you really deal with a package source or... Great question. So the question that we stated is, how do you deal with building multiple packages and in particular the conflicts that can happen with tools like SSL or others where your application may require one and the operating system requires another and frequently they don't play together nicely and can package source handle that? And the short answer is yes, absolutely. Very easily in 99% of the cases. There are some edge cases where simply having file system and path isolation for your libraries or your applications isn't enough. And in those cases, you might need to go to a container solution like Solaris Zones or FreeBSD Jails or Linux containers. But in most cases with something like SSL, the version that's installed by your operating system is usually not an issue for anything that's an application installed separately from the packages for your operating system. So if you install package source, if you install Libre SSL or OpenSSL or BoringSSL or whatever for your application and you install your application in the same prefix, it will use those libraries and not conflict at all with the system SSL libraries. It same goes for 99% of the other libraries out there. There was a problem a while ago with Postgres, but that's been resolved and I'm not aware of any others that exist. So the question was, does package source support reproducible builds? And yes, for most of the packages, I'm not sure that they've gotten through all of them, but reproducible builds has been like a goal for package source for a while. They've made really good progress on it. I know that on NetBSD, Elumos, I think FreeBSD, more than half of them can compile with reproducible builds, which brings me to building multiple packages in general. If you're going to build a repository for your packages so that you can do a very simple install similar to an apt install or a yum install, there is a distributed package builder that comes along with package source. Actually, there are three of them. There's one that's official though that will build every application that you specify in an isolated environment and you can tweak the parameters for that. So if you need reproducible builds, that's where you would go and do it. Tell it the list of packages that you want to have built and it will kick off a distributed build for that, even if distributed means local to one host using multiple cores. And then it will produce an index file that your package manager can use. The package manager is called PKGN and you can install from there without needing to compile every single time. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you very much.


Artists should be respected, and if they want to give their music freely, as I had offered, and some others have done, then that is their privilege, but they have the right to decide. If we don't respect the work of others and pay for that work, then it will stop. I really think that it will come to an anyway as we know it, but I think that we will be able to find solutions so that artists can continue to create and to represent what is so important for us as human beings, which is we need art in our lives, we need it to exist because it is the singular expression of our human condition, and without that I think we die.