My name is Molly Martin and I'm the director of New America Indianapolis. New America is a non-partisan, non-profit think tank based in Washington DC, but home for me is Indiana, and I've lived in Indianapolis for almost 20 years. Our part of New America focuses on how local communities respond to change and public problem solving, and this is the sixth in a series that we've done in partnership with the Indianapolis Recorder, one of the country's oldest and most respected black newspapers. We're going to be discussing COVID-19 and its impact on black workers. We know that the personal and economic disruptions of the virus and pandemic are challenging how all of us are living and making our living, but it is a unique challenge for the black community, especially in Indianapolis and certainly in communities like it across the country. So I'm really excited today to be joined by Marshawn Wally of the Indianapolis Recorder and also our esteemed panel, Fred Payne, the commissioner of the Indiana State Department of Workforce Development, Deputy Mayor Angela Smith-Jones of the City of Indianapolis, and she oversees economic development, and Angela Karclitch, who is the president and CEO of Employee Indie. For those of you who are joining us from across the country, Employee Indie is our workforce development board and actually serves a variety of roles that Angela will talk about a bit more later. Before we dive in, we always start every session in the COVID in the black community series by setting some ground rules. When New America Indianapolis talks about race and talks about the black community, we follow a certain set of principles. First and foremost, that black voices are critical and must be included in conversations about public policy, public problem solving, all conversations. Systemic racism and biases impact every aspect of our personal, social and economic lives, including our individual health. Black lives matter. Race and ethnicity are not the same, and the black community is not a monolith. And when we talk about things like income and work and economic development, there are words we sometimes use like vulnerable or systemic and we try to be really clear about those that vulnerability often arises from systems and doesn't mean to imply any sort of weakness or flaw on the part of the community we're discussing. So with that, I want to thank all of you for coming. I thank my partners at the recorder. Thank our design partners at inner power and our community partners at WFY I and hand off to my co moderator, Marshawn Wally to say a little bit more Marshawn. Thank you Molly. The last hired and first fired since 1972 large segments of decades black unemployment has been in the double digits. Black youth unemployment has been a perennial challenge. And while the black white gap for black unemployment has decreased in the last few years, the concerns have remained regarding both under employment, as well as even labor force participation rates by some people. Gary Becker, a world class Nobel laureate economist famously argued that with perfect competition amongst companies, you would ultimately see an elimination of workforce discrimination. Well, perhaps we haven't had perfect competition yet. We haven't seen discrimination in the labor markets, even when controlling for education.  We have income gaps. We have who can tell a work and who can't. We have who is an essential worker. And if you want to advocate locally sometimes, it's difficult to get the data on black communities, particularly at a city level, and at a neighborhood level. But before we get into all of this, what I'd like to do is get to know our panelists in the institutions that they work with. I'm actually going to start with our Commissioner Fred Payne. So, Department of Workforce Development, Commissioner Payne, you've had a number of adjustments that you have made within your operation recently. One area of concern actually had to do with black business owners who were by and large sole sole proprietors, and who became eligible for the pandemic unemployment assistance program. How's that program going. And are you able to track by race with that program. Well, thanks Marshawn for the question and thanks for having me here today. First, I like to tell about the agency exactly what we do and how to put this into context. Our agency is the state's employment and reemployment agency we have two primary focus areas. One is workforce operations, which we ensure that folks are getting workforce training and we're connecting people to workforce resources, job resources and career resources. And we're connecting employers to people who have the skills that they desire. The other half of the house is dedicated to administering the unemployment insurance trust fund. And as we all know right now we are seeing extreme numbers of unemployment insurance being filed across the nation. Indiana is is no different. And we have implemented several federal programs that Congress has laid out. One of them is the pandemic unemployment assistance program that Marshawn just referenced that program is an entirely new program set aside for those individuals who are independent contractors. Those who are self employed individuals who may not have had a sufficient work history or benefits that have accumulated long enough to allow them to be eligible for state unemployment insurance benefits. This was a completely new program and if those who are really into how the unemployment insurance system works. This is an entirely new classification of workers who were never given unemployment benefits before. So Indiana along with other states had to build a completely new infrastructure to take in these applications. Just on May 8 we started actually paying out under the pandemic unemployment insurance program. We had about 68,000 people who filed under that program. And as of last week we had paid about 60,000 of those under the program. Individuals tax returns and income data is evaluated and they end up getting a payment based upon other earnings. That's one part of it. But then the other part of the payment is an automatic $600 payment on top of whatever that calculated amount is. So for example, if the calculated amount, which could be no more than $390 a week. If it's $200 then that person would end up getting the $200 and then on top of that they'll get $600 so they could be eligible for up to $800 a week in that scenario. That $600 will go through the end of July. So now to your direct question on how is that program going. As I mentioned earlier, we ended up starting making payments on the program on May 8. 60,000 of the 68,000 have been paid. We are working right now on the retroactive payments because as a part of the CARES Act, those payments are retroactive back to the last part of March. So an individual is asked when they apply for pandemic unemployment, when did they get impacted by it? And if it goes back beyond March, they'll end up getting retro payments back until the date of the last part of March, early April. So we're in the process now of actually starting to disaggregate some of that data. We don't have that data right now because the program is so new. We don't have that disaggregated down to male, female, race, things like that just yet. So that's kind of one of those next stages after we get beyond the payments getting distributed to individuals. That's good to know. So it is the very new program. I remember watching some of the almost daily updates that you all have been participating in and talking about, you know, trying to build a website on the fly with new rules coming that, you know, might be changing even as we speak. I want to move to Deputy Mayor Angela Smith. Deputy Mayor Angela Smith-Jones, you have a very interesting job. Most people don't grow up and say, hey, I want to be a Deputy Mayor for Economic Development. So can you kind of describe, you know, what your role is in this space and help us understand, you know, we were on a hot streak, really. We were doing really, really well. Can you kind of give us a taste of what we're seeing now due to COVID-19 and kind of, you know, what you're seeing? Yes. So thank you so much for having me to join this esteemed panel. I'm fortunate enough to work with Angie Carclidge and Commissioner Fred Kamane, Fred Payne on a regular basis. And so I'm thrilled to be able to share this opportunity with them. So as you would indicate it, you're right, no one grows up thinking they're going to be Deputy Mayor. I'm extremely fortunate to have been chosen by our Mayor Joe Hoxett to really oversee not only economic development, but our workforce space and also our minority and women disabled and veteran-owned businesses, as well as international affairs and Latino affairs for the city. So just the intersectionality of every human being and how we are able to sustain ourselves is my role. Just for the record, I am an attorney by training and trade. I'm licensed and I think that also kind of helps. One, the Mayor selecting me in two and understanding some of the strange things that are occurring now in our time in our economy. So the City of Indianapolis, to Marshawn's point, we've been doing very well under the leadership of CEO Carclidge. We've done a lot of transitioning and how do we identify and understand who in our community is most vulnerable. Then through one of my other entities, which is Develop Indy, we've been working very closely and understanding what are some of the gaps. Where are opportunities for those who have historically been marginalized and disenfranchised and left out of our economies. And then partnering with our Office of Minority and Women in Business Development, we've been able to work on what is called a disparity study. So actually doing a deep dive into clearly understanding what are those gaps, do they exist, what do they look like, who's being most greatly impacted. And then going back into where we are now, how do we look at the facts and the data that we've been able to gain and gather. And how do we start to create policies to really have a positive impact on the economy as a whole. And most specifically on those who are most greatly impacted by lack of opportunity and policies that have historically left us out, be it intentionally or unintentionally. And so having that solid background of a strong economy, we really in Indianapolis, we've been named several times in the top five and two of the cities that have a very strong e-commerce business and economy and ecosystem. Also a great city for startups, Fast Company just named us in the top five for a great startup city and foundation in that space. And so when you look at the strength of from where we've come to now and being able to look at our vulnerabilities that were identified during that disparity study are apparent and out in the front. We really are being able to see how many of our small vulnerable companies are sole proprietors and needing to take advantage of the pandemic assistance and the fear and anxiety of the black and Hispanic business owners who are so accustomed to hearing no and having to fight for everything not really believing or understanding that that is available for them as a sole proprietor. And so I've had to spend a lot of time talking in webinars explaining please apply you really do qualify and the gap is somewhat recognized so you have to apply in order to be able to take advantage of these opportunities. And then I'll get in a little more on some very creative solutions that the city and partnership with the Indie Chamber and some other key strong community partners have been working to ensure that we're continuing to support our small businesses from sole proprietor to 150 employees and ensuring that they're able to keep their doors open during these times so that we can restart our economy going forward. So thank you very much for that opportunity Marshawn. Yes. And, and Angela, I know we've talked about this in the past, the numbers the numbers of workers filing for unemployment has been it's been a dramatic increase, almost around 10 fold that is that continuing to kind of move like that. Are we still seeing our unemployment filing those numbers for the city kind of moving. Yes, I wasn't sure which Angela you meant. So sorry, yes, the numbers have grown exponentially and is as car anti car glitch and Commissioner Payne will be able to clearly indicate it is greatly impacting our black and Hispanic communities. And it is statistical that our wealth gap when you look at generational wealth current net worth between the black and Hispanic and the white communities is dramatic it's like 10% gap between black and whites, their average net worth is like 171,000 for a white family, but only 17,000 for a white family, and then it's 8% gap between black and Hispanic to the white community so when you look at that you can see how critically important it is for us to be able to take advantage of these opportunities because we've gone through those cracks so much quicker and not have an opportunity to regain what we've lost it is statistical that we have to earn two to three times more income than the average white employee, just to even stay on par that does not take into account any inheritance that does not take into account any family wealth where the house is already owned so you don't have a mortgage or your vehicle is already owned so you don't have a car note. So even if we're making the appropriate amount of income, we still have greater expenses student loan, the rate of student loans is so much more dramatic 74% of blacks take out student loans, and less than right around 50% of whites but then the repayment component right if you have nothing else to pay, but your student loans it's different than when you have all of those other factors which I just indicated. So all of that unemployment, the lower income rates have a greater impact on the black and Hispanic community. And so therefore it pushes us further behind when we're already starting behind. So in the black community it's fair to say in the black and even the Latinx community it's fair to say that in Indianapolis, we are facing some of the challenges that you see and other communities across the country. So I'm going to go to Angela Carr-Clitch. So employee envy, it is our workforce institution. Can you talk about what employee envy does. And I went and learn learning more about employee envy, you all went through a process for identifying, like where you were going to work and really focusing on vulnerable communities. So I'm going to talk about that and in your approach to your work. Definitely I'd be pleased to and thanks to the Indianapolis Recorder and New America for the series of conversations. They've been incredibly insightful and I'm glad to participate here today so as you mentioned and Molly did as well at the top of the hour employee workforce development board for Marion County and really to synthesize what we do we're a matchmaker between supply and demand. So what is imperative to know is that depending on what the labor market looks like and what demand exists and where supply chains are being educated and trained from There's a gap between those two activities and so are to those two stakeholders. So when I was appointed by the mayor in June of 2016 we felt like it was very important to reevaluate the mission and the efforts that it were existing at employee envy and retrofit the organization for the realities of what the labor market was this was not immediately after 2008. And while we had incredibly low unemployment for Marion County as a whole. The reality is that those numbers were really taking away from the story that exists at the neighborhood level and at the zip code level. And so through our strategic planning process we really identified three high level objectives that we want the community to hold us accountable for. One is that we want employers to find the talent that they need to continue to undergird our economy and in the previous economy that we were working under. Those employers were really hungry for that talent. We're willing to participate more fully in cultivating and training that talent. And we could have conversations with them about ways to create an environment within the office themselves within the company itself that would be more inviting ways for those companies to participate more fully in training that would result in you know an employee that had not only the employability skills but also the occupational skills necessary. Our second high level objective was really to create a positive trajectory for youth and young adults. That young population was disproportionately affected after 2008 particularly our young black and brown peoples and unfortunately that never recovered. And so what we have is a number of young people 16 to 24 years old who not only are not participating in the labor market nor an education but they've given up hope. And so we felt like it was really important for us to work collectively with our partners to recognize that and to be more intentional in our efforts of offering work based learning experiences and the requisite social supports for those young people. And then Marion County, our data shows there's about 30,000 of those opportunity use so they're not being served through those traditional systems. So we need to do something to capture them, build rapport and trust frankly because that's a prerequisite before you can even have a conversation about skills development or employment. And then finally, to your earlier point, we recognize that with not a lot of funding not a lot of resources there's never enough money to serve really the needs. We needed to be more judicious of where we invested these dollars and what partners we work with so we identified five zip codes here and Marion County. They had a disproportionate number of people who were under under employed and probably more distressing to me that we're not participating in the labor force so again we get back to that hope gap issue. And I don't think it will come as a surprise to you or to others on this call that those zip codes have a preponderance of individuals who are people of color. One of our zip codes alone 46235 58% of the population there is African American 25% of them are not participating in the labor force. So a lot of the issues that are really emerging right now were pre existing the inequalities that that were here are now being exacerbated due to COVID-19. It is very important that you always decided to really focus on some areas and to really kind of see if you can get movement as opposed to spreading resources across, you know, a large county and so I very much appreciate that. At this point I would like to turn it over to Molly, because I know she has some questions. Sure. Thank you, Marshawn. One of the things that that I find so moving and really heartening about having the three of you on is this is not news to you if no one is saying no way you understand that the disparities that pre existed COVID have just been amplified. And as Angie just said, one other thing that you all touched on and falls a little bit outside of your agency and organizations charges is that job for what right we assume that we work for purpose but we also frankly we work for income and we work to be able to get by. And in Indiana, no one makes less than black women and Latinx women and black men make a lot less than white men you know the gap isn't yet isn't 20,000 but it's it's inching that way. So I'd like to come to each of you and hear a little bit about your take on wage inequity when you're trying to encourage folks to take a chance and re enter that social contract and re enter the workforce and maybe obtain education and training. What would you say to them about the gap, the wage gap that they're going to find and what would you say to your colleagues across the country about battling that wage gap from a workforce development standpoint.  I think that's a that's a very good question and it's something that quite frankly has come up a lot I've been in this role for about two and a half years now. And one of the things that we wanted to focus on when I initially came in was to make sure that we looked at equity across all of our programs to ensure that we had equity and program distribution and equity and who actually was participating in those programs. One of the things that we found is that people receive information differently. That was not news right, but the way that we distribute information and awareness about what resources are available may not necessarily get down to the level of the person who was at a certain zip code. There may be individuals who are privy to listening to maybe a chamber or who's a member of a certain organization because information is freely there because that's the majority of the media market. So we tried to make sure that we were more targeted on where we were providing information so that more people can understand what resources are available. And what we've also found is that when we shared more information and more resources, more discussions came around, then equities that we do have, not only in income, but actually in outcomes for some of the programs. So which is why we've tried to come up with an approach that focuses on the person as opposed to a program. Programs are great. We need programs. But if the programs aren't centered around the person, then we may miss a little bit and individuals don't have the hope that they need to really engage in the program. So for example, from an individual perspective, you know, boils down to how is it going to benefit me if I've already engaged in a certification program. And I am not receiving a salary or wage that I think is appropriate for the certification that I have then what incentive do I have to get another one, or to keep trying. What part of what we want to do is to make sure that we are showing the difference between certifications because all certifications aren't the same. But those that have value, we want to focus on those but we also want to focus on the individual and his or her situation because you can take two individuals who have the same type of certification, but they're making different wages because their circumstances may be different. One may have more experience than the other. But by and large what we're trying to do is to make sure that people understand what resources are available. We are being a little bit more intentional about where we focus our time and attention and making sure that we also recognize that different certifications, different skills and educational levels will generally yield different types of income. But those things don't necessarily equal the same thing for all people. So part of it is being really intentional and that's what our agency is trying to do. And when we have conversations with even my colleagues across the country and some of my counterparts, we have these conversations. Part of it really is an awareness issue. But here at the state level, what we focused on and particularly in what we call a strategic plan is sort of a plan that the state has to put together based upon some of the some of the federal guidelines that we follow. We've been more strategic about this plan to make it more people focused, as opposed to programmatic focus and that program I mean that that strategic plan was just put into place and finalized actually within the last couple of months. I really appreciate that commissioner I think the idea that this is we're not programmed poor in Indiana, but we still find these disparities I think that's a wonderful tack. Before I, before I leave you on this commissioner pain. You've talked about focusing on the person. Have you talked at the state level at all about practices like name blank name blind hiring, you know, we've heard from folks around the state and some smaller projects we've done that, you know, obviously systemic and something we're still grappling with and putting folks into programs may not get them over the hurdle in certain industries that don't have a culture and history of hiring racially diverse folks. Has that sort of come up. Is that sort of topic come up. Yeah, in, in by and large it does when we really get down to the sort of the grassroots conversations when we talk directly with employers. Because we have employers who talk to us about really having the desire and really wanted to have something effective to reach all demographics. And by and large employers are recognizing that if they don't do something differently, then they're not going to be as marketable as some of the other companies that are. So those things do come up. And we also have an organization here that really came aboard within the past couple of years, a skillful in Indiana, and part of their approach really is to look at job resumes and really to become really a skilled focus, as opposed to well, you need this degree you need that degree, they look more at the skills base. So that's an example of really getting to what employers really need. So when it comes to things like systemic things that may kind of push a person outside of, you know, being considered for a job. You look at the resume overall, but you also look at some of the name recognition on a resume to some of those things have come up. And one of the things that we know that we can't do. We all have biases, just the reality is that we all have biases, and there are different studies that we can cite to each person has about 150 to 200 biases give or take. Okay, that's a big range. What we can do with bias is that we can create processes that eliminate bias from the process that doesn't necessarily mean you eliminate the bias from the person. But what you've done is you put more of a guarantee in place to ensure that there isn't bias in the process. And by and large, the employers that we talked to have been working on trying to eliminate bias from their processes. Thank you. That's so helpful commissioner. President car glitch and Angie of employee and D since we're differentiating our angel is you obviously tow that line between employer needs and resident needs and when you're thinking about everything that Commissioner just said and thinking about how to make this value proposition when your workers may be well aware your clients may be well aware that that what they're getting isn't what they were wanting. How do you manage that how do you balance that. Okay, obviously there is this apply side right and that's a crude term to talk about our residents but you know there is, you know, there is a responsibility of an individual to understand what their interest areas are, and then what they're good at and then there's a responsibility of a system like our government and or private sector partners to to recognize what labor market looks demand looks like and translate that information so that consumers, especially those who maybe are basic skills deficient or digitally illiterate have the ability to use that information to make informed choices. And that will not that kind of seamless flywheel will not happen without some human capital as well so some career navigators that can help guide. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's on this conversation that's participating this conversation that but without my parents, I don't know what my navigation will look like because it's not something that necessarily was subsidized through other parts of my schooling or anything like that right so there is a responsibility for us in that respect. And there's a responsibility on the consumer. I would argue in this moment, especially that there's a responsibility on the part of employers and on the demand side so in recent years we've adopted a broken study that talked about good and promising jobs and that equates to about $18 an hour here in Marion County with benefits. There were few jobs that emerged post 2008 to come back from the recession that met that threshold that met that criteria. And so it's a reason in my in my opinion. We have to have the same conversation with employers that we do with individuals about what what is a good job, what is career ladder and an opportunity and what are some internal practices that can be adopted that make the environment. Welcome safe but also try to reduce biases as the commissioner mentioned as well. Excellent such an important point, kind of doubling down on the idea that you are engineering for the system, knowing full well what people are up against. So coming to you, Deputy Mayor Smith Jones, same question same reflection this is a hard time to make a value proposition when people are having trouble even meeting basic needs how do you do it. I've been like, taking notes and thinking it's so much in my mind I'm like I could actually talk about this for probably an hour. But my friend Angie car glitch actually kind of hit on some of what I wanted to really and you said if I'm speaking to other deputy mayors of economic development across the country. What I would say is the most important thing to do is partner with institutions who will help you do a deep dive into the data on what does your community really look like. And the realities are actually funded by income taxes, primarily primarily and secondarily property taxes. So if you look at the makeup of your community and you're realizing that you have a high population of black and Latinx residents. If you look at the average income of what's coming in, then really it's a win when if you figure out how do we help our residents identify opportunities to get the necessary training and experience to be able to take advantage of good and promising because that's what I was going to talk about in Indiana. There's less than a 4% chance that you will make it from the lowest quartile into the highest quartile of income earners. That's very disparaging that's very sad and it actually will kind of make you hopeless unless you get an opportunity for the city to take the lead and work with some really strong partners as employee in the as the indie chamber. And kind of say, okay, look, what are some of the sectors where you really can get what's called a good job so it pays a good wage of $18. What are the sectors in the industries where they are opening their minds up to true diversity and true inclusion in their environments and where their opportunities that when you start out with that good job, they actually want you to grow and progress within that corporate environment or within that sector. Even if it's one employer is typically the lower end of the income, then you switch to another employer. You get additional training experience and then another employer, but they're on the same sector, they're building upon similar skill sets, and it's an opportunity for you to get in and move up and then gain really make gains on that net worth that those in the black and brown community were typically missing. And so I know our city we have done just that. And so we're still looking at is Angie actually clearly indicated those navigators those touch points and Fred had said how do you find the people in our community who are out of all of the systems. How do you give them hope how do you build trust and how do you at the same time because this is a part of my job is to work with CEOs all the time and say hey, kind of share with me what your policies and procedures are with diversity and inclusion from someone with who got kicked out of high school and ex offender somebody who speaks a different language they pray a different way or you really open to having a true diverse community and one of my favorite quotes, which is incumbent on the employer is not only embracing people who are different, but realizing that the employer has an obligation to pour into their teams and to ensure that their teams develop. I know at the end of the day it's about profit, but your profit is magnified when you're investing in people and who they are. And one of my favorite quotes a friend from Indianapolis from IUPUI University said, employers have to realize that no one is getting a fully baked cake. So when you get talent, it's not a fully baked cake already cooled ready to put icing on, you got to put it in the oven and finish baking it. So that's training development income, making sure you're providing the basic needs that surround your benefits, etc. So that when you are obtaining that fantastic talent, you honor their diversity, whatever that is. And then you also realize, whoever this person is they're going to still need a little bit of training and investment on our from the employer side to ensure that that person reaches their greatest potential and that pays back that ROI to the company is that the company is solid, and they're able to grow and develop and increase their profitability. So in real, there's a lot of work for deputy mayors to do, but I'm telling you can do it if you've got some strong key partners and you're willing to partner and really forge an opportunity for those most vulnerable in your city. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Marshawn I'm confident that you have a follow up question to that I can see it. Yeah, yeah, so actually what I wanted to do is go to Commissioner pain. At one point, black unemployment. Well, Indiana was one of the 14 states where the black unemployment rate was higher than the white unemployment rate. I want to, and I also know that the state developed a workforce strategy that integrated, you know, education with with labor with with the labor strategy, and I wanted you to kind of talk about that, and how you all are like looking at the data, or you know who's being unemployed and, and what that looks like from an education perspective. Good question is important because we this goes back to what I said about being people focused and being really intentional. And part of the things that that that we look at when we're talking about an employee, a really good environment where you have employers who are really looking for employees and who are thriving, who are interested in bringing in and having the whole person show up, meaning all of their diversity, having that person show up. What you're looking at then is the resources that we have at the state level that sort of incentivizing that we have a variety of programs that we've looked but we've tried to make them people centric. And we have two things in place with the employer training grant program and our workforce ready grant program. Those are programs that really defray the cost of training for both an employer and an individual if an individual finds a skill, or some type of job or certification that they aren't, they don't have the skills and abilities to do just yet. We have paid for that almost 100% most of the time, say for example if a person wants to go into a computer coding, because those jobs may yield a higher income and better career path for them. The person goes to our training provider list they find someone who provides that training and then they go get the training. But what we have done in terms of that is we made a direct focus on direct interaction and engagement with women owned, minority owned, veterans owned businesses and trainers and companies and tried to make sure that we were focusing attention and awareness to those organizations to help make sure that we do have a diverse group of employers. But we also have a group of employers that's interested in and who are committed to diversity and getting kind of off off that topic just a little bit in what we've seen in terms of just attainment level for college. These are kind of two different things because one of them ties into the skills that a person has to go on and to get a job and to be successful in that job. This other piece is more the resources that are available to an individual who has chosen the college track or who has chosen to go from school to work and what what's available to them. So just for example, those individuals who wanted to graduate from high school and go to college in the most recent equity report or college readiness report from the Commission for higher ed black students. Graduating and rolling in college did so at 53% 53% of high school graduates enrolled in college. Compare that to 61% for all students that's the average the on time college completion for black students is about 26%. But all students the average is about 47%. So we see there's still a little gap for that extended time for completion of college, essentially that goes to about six years. Black students make up about 3635% of that all students is about 62% of that.  Okay, part of that gap has something to do with resources, which is why there have been a variety of financial aid programs around the state that have helped to offset that with the 21st century scholars program of being one of them. So we see education and we see resources as a big part of the equation, but we also see it goes back again to what I said earlier. It's awareness. There are many people who are just unaware that these resources are available. And that is why one of our primary focuses has been making sure that we get the awareness to populations that may not have gotten this awareness before, or that they have gotten this awareness through different channels than our mainstream channels. So that's sort of the shift that we've made over the past couple of years, really is getting out to the communities, having discussions like this is ever so important. But the discussion can't end with just this discussion that has to be some kind of action to it and that's what we go behind. Each one of these conversations that we have and provide resources. We're in the process now of working with a group of individuals of what we call our rapid recovery team, and we're putting together resources. We're going to roll it out here in a few weeks of resources to ensure that folks who are trying to get out of COVID-19 that we have those resources available, which will include free or reduced college tuition or cost for them, or free certifications for them. Because we know coming out of this pandemic, people are going to need some help. And one of the things that we've looked at in terms of who we need to look at, when we look at the folks who have been unemployed, who fought for unemployment over the past month, about 233,000 claims filed between March 15 and April 15. Here's sort of the educational level of those folks who are out of work. 7% have less than a high school education. 7% of those who are unemployed right now have less than a high school education. 41% have a high school education. But the other 48%, they have some college, meaning they've gone and taken a college course all the way up to graduating from college. So when you look at that data, it's almost half and half when it comes to college and non-college. But the interesting statistic there is the 7% of high school folks with less than high school education who are unemployed. The general wisdom would say that there would be more of those individuals right now who are out of work. But what we're seeing is that those are individuals who are in the jobs at the grocery stores. Those individuals are working because they have to go to work. Those are some essential services. But by and large, the individuals who are filling those jobs don't have the education that someone has who would have a job that would allow them to work remotely. And I know I probably gave you a little bit more than Yaks there. That was actually perfect. Yaks, you brought up the challenge of the essential workers as well. That has been one of the disparities that we've seen where someone has to go to work and potentially risk exposure to COVID-19. And a lot of those folks were in lower paying jobs and they were black and brown people. And so that's had an impact on some of the disparities that we've seen probably in both the testing and hopefully not the deaths, but probably the deaths as well. I want to go to Angela Clark-Clitch real quick and ask, in your work, when you're looking at education and skills and just the kind of cultural capital, social capital that folks in your communities and the communities that you're working in, what are you seeing? What kind of information are you trying to react to, respond to and address in the work that you're doing? Sure. Well, again, right now it's obviously a moment of crisis, right? And I think our lens needs to be as the agency charged with a lot of re-employment of our residents here in Marion County of recognizing what new demand looks like. So understanding what surge occupations are going to come about as a result of this disaster recovery. And it's a different type of disaster than our country has ever experienced before. Usually those funds coming from the federal government are utilized for cleaning up after an earthquake or a hurricane. What does that look like post-COVID? But then ultimately we also need to be working with our private sector partners to understand what new product lines are being developed and what demand looks like. That's always been a challenge. Label of market information is a lagging data point for us. So Winston Churchill never let a good crisis go to waste. What can we do to create a virtuous flywheel of information transmittal from the private sector as well as other employers in our community? And obviously, in Marion County we have a significant government employees and we also have nonprofit employees as well. But understand more fully what those opportunities are and then build back from that demand. Understanding the existing training programs that can be modified almost immediately to go online too because I believe that we will continue to have some restrictions on the numbers being able to congregate at one time. So those are really important. What I will say is that we have to stay the path that we decided on at Employee Indie a number of years ago. There are still 80,000 people in Marion County without a high school equivalency. So that continues to be a way that we invest and emphasize our efforts because it's really hard to train them for other opportunities if you don't have that baseline foundational skill set. So in some respects, I'm heartened that we decided on this course of action a number of years ago. Obviously the scale and magnitude of the challenge is overwhelming, but we have a lot of the infrastructure in place to continue to lift up and serve our community who again has been disproportionately affected by the recovery since 2008. And, you know, some of the programs and now I'm going to go to Deputy Mayor Angela Smith-Jones. I mentioned some of the Angela Clark-Clitch mentioned some of the programs that we put in place to try to address really what sounds like the racial achievement gap and the opportunity gap and getting folks up to speed and trained. One of the interesting programs that's come into play and you mentioned this earlier was the $18 an hour wage proposal that was connected to new projects. Now, obviously, I don't know what new projects look like right now, but can you explain kind of the thought process behind that and how in any other programs that the city is using currently to kind of impact or where black people can benefit. From those. Thanks. Absolutely. And thank you for the opportunity to highlight that, Marshawn. So through the work of the city under the leadership of the mayor, we've been actually really focusing on what's called inclusive growth. So from the studies that have been done since 2016 until most recently, including that disparity study, we've learned that in order to really have a completely inclusive economy, you really have to pay a sustaining wage so that people do not need to rely upon the governmental based systems, but they are able to take care of themselves. So that would be an $18 an hour wage floor also including benefits within that. And then the other components of that which we've come to realize are critically important in supporting the workforce and the talent and the residents in our city is how do you add additional supports to that right so whether it's child care services and our transit services and opportunities. How do you really create a full package. If you would like to ask for incentives and support from the city, we are looking at this completely inclusive growth package before we say yes right we want to encourage corporations to broaden their minds and really fully embrace what is out there. When you look at the child care component and the transit component what we're asking employers to do is to invest that 5% approximately 5% of the full incentive that you're getting from the city right so if it's $100 you're investing $5 right towards a community benefit. So are there opportunities within our city where you can either pay for additional transit whether it's paying for transit pass for your employee or infrastructure by partnering with Indigo. How do you assist with child care earlier Molly had indicated that the lowest paid employees typically are black and Hispanic women and then typically we're single moms. So when you look at that there are many gaps that exist that an employer if they invest in that they're actually getting a great ROI because their employees are able to come to work via transit or come to work because they have adequate childcare and they also have benefits so they're able to keep their health. You know in a good in a good place which addresses the health disparities which we know exists. So that's one of the key components that we're doing and looking at city incentives and how we offer them. We'd also kind of talked about businesses right in small business so another component of that is if you are a small business and XBE business we've been able to look at how do we come alongside and through this disparity study we've been able to realize all of this. What are some of the greatest gaps and opportunities for city to come and support a small business XBE business right. And what the what the findings were is that the greatest gap is the operational funding right that at the end of the day because when you look at our average net wealth net worth excuse me it is so low that it is extremely difficult to float any of that timeline of waiting to be paid through a contract right so in partnership with one of our key organizations in the city the ND chamber. We were able to create a program that we're calling the gap program right and gap means many things but at the end of the day it's an opportunity that when you are sole proprietor, especially in XBE you are able to work together with the prime contractor take advantage of the contract that you have signed get some gap funding which stands in the gap of while you're really still providing services still having to buy supplies still having to pay employees but have not yet been able to receive any payment through the invoicing system right. How do you survive during that time until you're actually being able to be paid so we have a new program that works with sole proprietors and small businesses to that effect so that's two separate sides of the coin and two different strong programs that are working to really ensure that those who are typically left out are getting an opportunity to not only sustain but start to advance. Yeah, it sounds like knowing the despair and understanding even the disparities from the business side has really helped you think about workers and they're in the position that they find themselves in at this point I'd like to go over to Molly as we kind of I think we're let her let her ask her questions and we move forward with the program. Sure, sure. And thanks to everyone who's asking questions in the chat we have about a half hour more together and we'll be working those questions in and you were just talking about disparities and how recognizing them and naming them means that you can address them. We've had a great question in the chat about persistent disparities. We've talked a little bit about the disparities across the lowest paid swath of our workforce, and among our neighbors, but disparities also persist for folks who have a college education, and the commissioner talked about just how many people with some college or even a degree are unemployed right now. And so Commissioner pain when you think of a let's say a black resident who has a college education has found themselves unemployed perhaps because they are an entrepreneur or maybe they're in one of the hardest hit sectors. What would you tell them like it's just it's just you Fred, and resident Molly, and she said I don't know what to do I don't know where to start I did everything right. Where would you tell them to go. A couple of places. First, on the, I've done everything right. COVID-19 has changed everything. Right now there are a lot of people who are out of work who did everything right. So that position right now it really isn't an uncommon position, particularly, it's not an uncommon position for a person of color. So, a couple of places I would tell them to go because there are different reasons why I would have them to go. So first off, take advantage of the temporary programs that are in place right now. As Marshawn introduced earlier, the pandemic unemployment assistance program. Right now that programs available to a group of individuals that were never contemplated for unemployment insurance of benefits. Take advantage of that right now. Secondly, utilize that network. That network that we have and sometimes we don't really want to tap into it. Now was the time to tap into that network, because believe it or not, we still have over 100,000 jobs in Indiana that are open right now. Many of those jobs are remote jobs. So the person's job or the person's company or their business right now may have been sidelined because of COVID-19. But there are a lot of other opportunities that are available right now. So I would say take advantage of those. So go to a few places. One, you know, go to our unemployment insurance website to do that for pandemic unemployment insurance. Take advantage of that because the $600 portion of it which makes up the bulk of that weekly amount. It's going to run out. It has an expiration date of the end of July. Now Congress is contemplating more, but as it stands right now, July 31st is when that additional $600 runs out, but the program will run through the end of December of this year. Tap into the network, but also utilize this time because the person may be unemployed right now, maybe sidelined. Think of opportunities or things that they wanted to do before that they didn't have time to do. For example, if the individual is running, you know, a certain kind of business and there was another certification that they wanted to get, but they didn't have the time to do it because they were running their business. Now may be a very good time to do that. And this is an opportunity right now where there are resources available to help pay for some of those certifications. So my advice would be two for one, take advantage of the short term opportunities that are there, and then take advantage of the network that's in place. Thank you so much. And I think you hit on something really important that this, this can be an opportunity and that we are lucky in Indiana and that we had a surfeit real history of black excellence. And the opportunity to celebrate what is our legacy in this region, which is kind of the success of the African American middle class. And we talked, I use the words kind of doing everything right, but we know in this country you can do all the things right and still not get what you, what you deserve what we all deserve. And to that point, we have a group, a large group of hardworking people in Indianapolis, 50,000 or more working in hospitality, they make our economy go and they are taking a huge hit right now. With those 50,000 folks getting news like the news we got today that GenCon is not coming in August and that is mammoth hospitality opportunities are, are delayed. What would you say, Angie Karclitch at employee Indy to someone who is thinking of making a transition from that hospitality industry Indianapolis needs its hospitality folks but I'm not sure we can ask someone to put their life on hold. Any advice for folks who are experiencing just kind of hit after hit right now. Sure. I think I would reiterate Commissioner Payne's comments that there are opportunities out there right now, right. So, not only that are about re employment, but also about training so that if you wanted to career change this could be an opportune time. I think that we need to respect kind of a grieving process that happens, our identity is so tied into our work, our experience with the carrier dislocation. You could build up as many programs and they could be funded but people have to be ready to take advantage of those, and we're kind of in the tyranny of the moment right now. So, I just want to reflect that back out to to understand that while these opportunities can exist people have to be in the right headspace to be able to take advantage of that. There also are challenges around connectivity because right now as we well know you can't really access the public library or the work one system. Other than through a virtual capacity and if you don't have access to those software or hardware resources that is a challenge. That being said you know there are amazing skill sets for individuals who have been serving in the hospitality industry, the customer service aspect is bar none. And in fact, we are doing our due diligence to understand again labor market demand and then build back into kind of client profiles where someone can envision themselves in that opportunity. A perfect example is the city of Indianapolis is looking to hire 100 new police officers and when they go through to look at the characteristics. They really are interested in trying to target bartenders who have lost or been displaced due to COVID, given that they have a skill set of de escalating situations, etc. We are now trying to call the existing data on the supply side to understand who has been dislocated from those occupations and can we be more intentional and curate information around new opportunities that match actually some skill sets that they already have. If you can't see it, you can't be it and so we really have to let individuals envision themselves and these new opportunities and then come alongside with the fiscal resources to support that and not just the training itself but to support themselves and their families as they retrain to that's even the chicken and egg even in the previous economy before COVID, you know, we were really working to try to connect with the hospitality and tourism industry to see if there's something that we can do around work based experiences because it's impossible in many instances to step out of the labor market and not get a wage to train up for the next job. So we need to think more creatively as a society about how do we upskill our populations for the next opportunity than backfill those those pre existing jobs with some of our young people so they get to cut their teeth on the new opportunities. And now it feels even more imperative that we figure what figure that out what that looks like how do we support people while they upskill at the same time. That's so vitally important and I love the point Angie that you make about choice that there is, we should offer people the opportunity to decide how they want to earn income, even though we know in some cases the house is on fire, and we certainly don't want brown and black residents to feel like they don't know what's left or forced into pathways. So, Deputy Mayor Smith Jones coming back over to you on a similar point. So the city is I imagine going to be growing some of its workforce roles. Angie mentioned the police force. Are there other opportunities with the city that you see growing as we come out of this this COVID moment because you're one of the largest employers. Thank you. That's a great question. So, to your point about making sure that we take advantage of a crisis and do not let it go to waste our HR department is actually feverishly working to identify opportunities to and also really focusing on our incumbent residents right not necessarily attracting from outside which is a great economic play in general, but how do we work with employee indie as a key and strong partner and ascend Indiana and identifying our current residents and saying who has the skill set going back to what Commissioner Fred Payne said, looking at the skill set, not necessarily what the title of the job was, because people have great skill sets that are applicable and looking across the enterprise of the city, and seeing where are there opportunities to kind of look at an entry level position, albeit, but an entry level position that has opportunity to growth and stick to activity right so you join the city and you realize what a great opportunity it is to really have a broader view of the entire community, the entire economic system. And so it is a great opportunity to do that and our HR director is doing just that looking at working with partners, looking across the enterprise for opportunities for entry level and progression positions and ensuring that we are strong corporate partners and keeping people employed in the city. Thank you that's so good to know. Before I hand back over to Marshawn actually have a super practical question for you Commissioner Payne. We've had a question in the chat about whether or not someone who is actively employed, but whose hours have been drastically cut is eligible to apply for any of the benefits and insurance trust inherent in the CARES Act. Yes, they are able to apply it depends on how much money they earn. For example, the average, the max weekly unemployment insurance benefit in Indiana is $390, really up to 390, but up to really 47% of a person's wage. So let's say a person's hours were cut short. And if their hours, the amount of time that they add in their hours and their wages is less than the 390 a week, then they could still be eligible for partial benefits. And if they're eligible for partial benefits, then they will also be eligible for the federal $600 add on. Great. Thank you so much. Marshawn I'd like to hand back to you for this last round of questions. Interesting ideas that you all that's kind of come up in this conversation is the idea that we have 100,000 jobs out here right now. But we still have a lot of people who are filing for unemployment and what I wanted to kind of get at was middle skill jobs. That's a term that we kind of hear about. Can someone explain what middle skill jobs mean and how do you go about, you know, getting into a middle skill job career in part because I think what we're learning is that you can get a middle skill job without maybe going to four years of college but you can still make a very good living. And so can someone explain that I'm just kind of sure who knows that wants to take that on. I'll tell you. Those and I like to kind of stay away from titles with middle skilled low skilled jobs and say that because I think that they do a disservice to work that people are performing. And it devalues. It's sort of how you are doing, but when people reference fields they really are talking about a job that requires some training or certification beyond high school. So I'll give an example of one of the areas that sort of a misnomer but will end up making a very living and a good wage on this job. Let's say a welder a welder sort of a person doesn't get a four year degree fairly to be a welder, but they need some type of welding certification. And from some places that I've even worked at and the place that are around the state individuals on as a welder couldn't go into low six figures. So those are, that's a very good example of someone that people would consider that job would be a mid skill job. But within the workforce itself in those areas that need welders. That's pretty high skill. I think you're on. That's an excellent point because you have to have the training as a welder that takes a little bit of time and you want them to know what they're doing. One of the other things that I've observed, I saw the Indie Chamber on MSNBC talking about one of the programs that they were doing. I think Angela Carclitch referenced earlier with the kind of like the rapid response as far as trying to connect people to jobs. What other innovations are you seeing from other cities. That are, you know, maybe particularly helpful for the black community or the community as a whole, as it pertains to this particular moment, either on the demand side, or the supply side. And, but either one of the Angeles you could take it on. It's like Angela Carter. I'll happily chime in and then pass it off to my colleague. So with respect to some of the stop gap solutions that we've put into place here locally. The Indie Chamber as well as the city of Indianapolis employee Indie and ascend have been working diligently to put together a more comprehensive systemic plan so again we had in the works for the past year plus a singular platform that could be utilized by employers as well as through multi tenant side supply chains so looking at higher education institutions to push their candidates to this platform, but also coming out through our adult ed systems coming out through our community based organizations coming out from K through 12 education. And their, you know, systems behind the scenes are not very sexy but this is really something that could reduce the tension between that matchmaking piece that we're very excited. And that will be forthcoming in the interim, you know the existence of job boards obviously the state is stepping up and we'll be launching the platform here shortly and the landing pages. We have the job board that's on rapid response talent hub at the chamber and depending on the candidate who the job seeker that comes in if they fall more within a programmatic area that would be an employee Indie's auspices, then they are directed towards us. And vice versa, if it's a early college professional, which quite likely given the 48% of people who are applying for UI right now how to have a bachelor's degree, they'd be funneled through a sense platform so it's just again a measure that we're trying to adopt to to quickly help people self navigate to the opportunities that is predicated on the the idea that these are individuals who can self navigate right. Other I think more creative solutions that are being deployed for me are utilizing some federal grant monies that are coming down around the humanitarian assistance is some of those temporary employment opportunities where you could couple that with training. And that seems like a good space for our community to play as we look to deal with some of the issues and inequities around food delivery around transportation around childcare. Those could be opportunities to subsidize positions so people could have jobs but then they have a public benefit to the rest of our society to so I'm excited about that and more to come obviously in that space. I just wanted to add and that did you have anything you wanted to add to that Angela Swift Jones. So I was, I knew Angie was the perfect person to start with that answer and I will say that as I continue to look around the country, I really feel like Indianapolis is so uniquely positioned, because we have such strong leaders, and we are known as a community that really collaborates and as Angie indicated we've already been on that foundation. And so now we have leaders who are able to step up and say, Oh, here's a stop gap to help us as we continue to navigate along this path that we're already paving together right I just, I really do think we're moving at lightning speed and being very creative we're not trying to create perfection right now, but we are cognizant of keeping those that are most vulnerable our community in mind as we're moving forward to make sure that at the end of the day we have the system that really works for all and incorporates all. So it sounds like we have a lot of things in the works. I know that there is discussion even at the federal level of, and I guess cares acts number three, two or three. The house just passed some legislation so it will be interesting to see what federal dollars come from that. At this point I'd like to turn it back over to Molly to see if she had any other additional questions. Sure. This is to the entire panel so you have something of a captive audience, you have people from Indianapolis, Baltimore, LA Fort Wayne just kind of all over listening to you right now. And some of those folks have expressed on the back channel that they are currently unemployed.  So this is a personal message and New York City someone just chimed in so you really got a wide audience. anti-carrot glitch I'll start with you what would you say one on one to some of the workers in our back channel right now. Well, I think that it was spoken to earlier like you're not alone, and that this is a time if you are able to draw down, whether it's the pandemic unemployment insurance or other unemployment insurance benefits. So I would like to ask those to give a little bit of breathing room if possible to start thinking about what's next right and using the resources that are available you know we are seeing a huge uptick and individuals participating in online workshops to revamp their resume.  And then, you know, we are starting to open up by calendar appointments, even one on one conversation with career navigators and that's probably something that a lot of our funding to support the human capital in this space is tied to the unemployment. Right. So it's odd because obviously we know that there's such an increase in demand and need for these services, but we don't necessarily as we sit here today have the funding resources to staff up to be able to meet that demand. So we are working diligently with the city, as well as with the state and the federal government to see what we can do to manage cash flow, so that we don't reduce our staff so that we actually start increasing and bringing new people on board. Who can have that one on one conversation because, frankly, Molly, I'm not the best person to talk to one on one about how do we pivot to the, but I've got an amazing staff and amazing team who are much more knowledgeable than myself and stand at the ready. And that that would be true across this country for all workforce development boards. I just would be remiss in the moment to not indicate that, you know, there is just the challenge right now with the fiscal underpinnings of this system to meet what is now just such an increased demand for services and delivery. Sure. And that is a just louder for the funders on the call. I know we've got some people in the audience. Deputy Mayor, what would you add? Thank you. I would say the most important thing is to keep hope. I know it is very discouraging and disheartening right now, but try to keep hope. Look at every opportunity and go for it.  So if you have a united way, if you have a community investment fund, if you have a workforce investment board, absolutely find every opportunity you can talk to friends and apply for every type of financial support you can get. Secondarily, I know I sound like a city person, but you have to complete your senses, because if you're not completing your senses, none of us can get this data that helps inform how we move forward with funding and training, and then opportunity. So going forward, we will know that you are here and that you need this kind of help. So please complete your senses, no matter what. And then the other thing is to really take an opportunity. This is a time when you're at home by yourself with your family to look inside what are some of your goals and hopes and aspirations that were taken from you in the past. And now you can shift and say, you know what, people keep talking about coding. What is that? Well, if you can use your iPhone, if you can use your iPad, you are already a coder.  So you have some great gift skill sets and talents that you nobody told you you had or that you've been wasting because you didn't know to use them. Now's the time to look inside and say, here's my ultimate goal in a career or company ownership. You see that the supply chain is going to shift and you have a talent that's going to fill that gap going forward. So take this time, look for partnerships where you can get online training, find a program or certification where you can start to really advance your income and your training and experience. And the last thing is just keep hope, do your senses please because that really impacts every local government, every state government and the federal government funding to really so that we never have this kind of situation again. Thank you so much. And I would point that in the chat my 2020 census.gov if you haven't filled it out yet. Commissioner Payne, what would you add? I'll add one thing about the census. Right now, we will be holding a virtual job fair for census workers. There are 700 census jobs that will be open here in Indiana coming up. So that is a good opportunity for people who want something to do temporarily. We know it's not a job that's going to last for a long time, but it is something temporarily that people can do and will have a virtual job fair for those who are interested in that. Now, more specifically to your question, I'll talk about the word opportunity, and I think it wraps up what both Deputy Mayor and President and CEO, Angie Carr-Click said. Really, this is a time for us to take advantage of some opportunity of some time that we didn't ask for. We didn't ask for this time at home. We didn't ask for it. But since we have it, let's take advantage of it and let's use it as an opportunity to, one, take advantage of the resources. So first, let's take an inventory of the resources that may be available. Secondly, when we look at those resources and we look at that inventory, align what we want to do with the resources that are available and then aggressively pursue those. And I'd be remiss right now, and I wouldn't be doing any of us any service if I didn't talk a little bit about our unemployment insurance system and as it exists right now. As we mentioned before, there are opportunities that are available for people who were not otherwise contemplated on our unemployment insurance system. Every state in the country right now has experienced this extremely high volume of people falling for unemployment insurance benefits. We knock out probably about 85% of claims within 21 days. But that small percentage of claims, that 15% or 10 or 15%, is taken beyond 21 days. So there may be a little bit of frustration because a person may say, well, hey, I tried to apply and I haven't gotten my benefits yet. Each person who's eligible will end up getting their benefits. And I've used the word patient for a while now because I do want people to understand the realities of the system and this isn't Indiana or any other state specific. It is around the country because our systems were not designed to handle this volume this quickly. But we have beefed up our staff and we've beefed up the technology to make sure that we have more throughput. So take advantage of it. But if you have already applied and you have not started receiving benefits yet, your benefits if you're eligible, they will be there. And I know that that's a part of the added stress that people are having right now at home. And I didn't want to take this and miss this opportunity to address that because we know that that reality exists. But now, having said that, make sure that you take advantage of it, but also make sure that you're taking advantage of the other opportunities that are there as well. Thank you so much, Commissioner. Here in the last minute or so I want to thank everyone who has attended. If we didn't get to your question. We do try to address those even after the event so you can look forward to a follow up from me. I really want to thank our panelists, a phenomenal job. So open, so authentic today but also I want to thank you because your job is not easy right now. The three of you have three of the harder jobs in this unprecedented time and I really do appreciate it. Before I hand over to Marshawn to say goodbye, I want to thank the Indianapolis recorder. I want to thank our partners at WFY I want to encourage everyone in the chat to reach out to New America you can reach me personally at Martin at new America.org. If you have ideas for how certain delivery systems or policies that you've encountered in trying to obtain your benefits or find work could be improved and that's work that we do research that we do and then share with folks like the ones you see on your screen today. Thank you again for joining us a video of this will be made available as well a list of resources shared by our panelists Marshawn I'd like to turn to you. So for over 125 years, the Indianapolis recorder has been working to prepare a conscious community. What we appreciate is that on the other side of a challenge is opportunity. And as we talked today we have been empowered with resources and information, mostly understanding that you're not alone if you have experienced unemployment right now that there is an opportunity to take control and figure out what direction you want to go and how you want to reshape your career. And so with that, we look forward to all of the opportunities that you all will be taking advantage of in the future. And thank you and we'll see you probably in another week or so. Thanks.