So, on page 197, this lesson actually comes before the exponential growth lesson. I flip-flop Holly from year to year when I first taught this. I taught this first and then I taught the generic exponential growth and then I thought, you know what, it's probably easier to teach them the generic one and then show them how this fits into the generic one because there's two ways to teach compound interest. One is to memorize another equation and I'm not big on memorizing yet more stuff. The other way is to memorize A equals A0 times C, the T over P, that generic exponential growth equation and just tweak it to fit compound interest. But first I'll talk about what compound interest is. Every one of you almost certainly will borrow money sometime in your life. Probably for a house, possibly for a car, maybe for that shiny new boat or whatever. Why do banks lend money? The answer is they make money when they lend you money. How do they make money when they lend you money? They don't lend you money for free, they charge you a fee. What do we call that fee? Interest. They charge you a percentage except the banks are very clever, they want to make more money. Holly, they charge you what's called compound interest. What that means is they charge you interest on the interest and then next time they charge you interest on the interest on the interest.  The first seven years are doing nothing but paying off the interest on the interest on the interest on the interest. The reason, Amanda, is what does every single exponential growth graph look like? Okay. Yeah. Financially, the longer you have that loan, the faster that interest grows and so paying that off is the tricky part. If you get an investment that compounds, that's a good thing. This is why we tell you if you're young to try and put some money into a term deposit and by the time you're 50, it'll probably be $1 million, starting out with a couple of thousand, as long as you don't touch it. In simple interest, the principle at the beginning of the second year is the same as the principle at the beginning of the first year.  That's how much you borrowed or invested your starting amount. In simple interest, the starting amount doesn't change. That's not how the real world works. In compound interest, the interest earned or charged in the first year is added to your principle. Now in the second year, you owe more money and they're going to charge you interest on the more money. Turn to page 198, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Turn to page 199, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What I really want you to do is turn to page 200. I think it's easier for me to just jump straight into an example. It says here, compound interest formula. There is one. It's this thing. What I'm going to do is I'm going to put one line through this and I'm going to write A equals A0C to the T over P. Does that look familiar, Carson? We're going to try, instead of memorizing yet another equation, we're going to see if we can't tweak it to fit this. Some of this we already know, A is the final amount, P, which I'm going to call A0. That represents the initial amount. C is going to be one plus the interest rate. So I'm going to put the little i right there. I represents the interest rate per compound period because we're increasing by a percentage. We're going to go one plus that amount, cross out the N. T is total time and P is the length of a compounding period. Sounds confusing. It's not. In fact, it's much easier to just do an example. So once you've written that down, let's scroll down to example one. Now they've given us letters to fill in. We're going to ignore those letters to fill in somewhat. So I'm going to go $7,000, I think that's my initial amount, is invested in a six year GIC. What's a GIC? Something, something, I can't remember what it stands for, an investment compounded quarterly at a rate of 5% per annum. Determine the value of the investment at the end of the term. I'd like you to do a couple of things. Can you underline the words compounded quarterly? And can you write our template A equals A0C to the T over P? What are they asking you to find in this question? Can you interpret that? Are they asking you to find that, that, that, that, or that final amount? So I'm going to go like this, A equals question mark, and now I feel better. What's this? What's my initial amount, $7,000? What's T, six years? What did I underline? That tells you the length of one period. P is a quarter of a year. Tyson, what if they had said compounded monthly, what would P be? I caught you zoning out, didn't I? Okay, where did that P equals one quarter come from? Compounded what? Quarterly. So what if it was compounded monthly, what would P be? 112? Here's all the possible phrases. It can be monthly, quarterly, it can be semi-annually, P would be what then? A half? It can be yearly, P would be one. Weekly, P would be 52, one over 52. Daily, P would be one over 365.  A lot of them will do compounded infinitely and use base E because that's a continuous growth model, yeah, because they want to make as much money as they can. Getting dramatically new there, here is where we have to make a little adjustment. Once you've written C equals, put your pencils down for a second. What's my growth rate here? At first glance, you might say, oh, 5%, don't write this down. You might be tempted to go 1.05 because remember Kirsten, it was 1 plus the percentage if you were increasing or 1 minus the percentage if you were decreasing and you've made a very, very, very subtle error and this is the only tweak that we're going to have to do. It's still going to be 1 plus. Steph, can you read that to me? What does anam mean? It's a financial term. It means per year, but what's my growth period? A quarter, you ready? Look up. If the interest rate is 5% for a whole year, what's the interest rate for one growth period for a quarter of a year? What am I going to have to do with that interest rate that they gave me in years so that I can fit it so that it matches the units of my compounding growth period? Take that 5% and divide it by what? 4. That's the adjustment we're going to have to make because our interest rate and our period have to be for the same length. It's going to be this, .05 over 4. That's what you can write down. Tyson, what if it was monthly? What would I divide that 5% by? What if it was daily? What would I divide that 5% by? 365. What if it was semi-annually? What would I divide that 2? That's the tweak, Shannon, that we're going to have to do. This is going to give us final amount equals initial amount 1 plus .05. .05 over 4, close bracket, to the power of 6 divided by 1 quarter. Is that okay so far? Amanda, how do I divide by a fraction? Well, multiplying by a fraction, that was the easiest one. It was top times top, bottom times bottom. Dividing almost as easy is multiplied by the reciprocal. In fact, this here is really the same as 6 times 4 over 1. In fact, dividing by a quarter is the same as multiplying by what? More specific. Dividing by a quarter is the same as multiplying by what? 4. Yes? Dividing by a half is the same as multiplying by what? Dividing by 1-12 is the same as multiplying by what? That's why, even though I scribbled it out in the original formula, N is the number of compounding periods, 6 years, 4 times a year, 24 times, 6 years, 12 times a year, 72 times. You know what? I can memorize a whole new formula, or I can say, I can divide by a fraction without killing myself. Anyways, that exponent there is really going to be a 24. Andrew, what am I trying to find? Is that an exponent? Logs? No. Is the a by itself already? Well, heck, this is straight calculator then. I'll be careful in my typing, but it's going to be 7,000 times bracket 1 plus 0.05 divided by 4 close bracket to the power of, and I could go 6 divided by 1 quarter, but I know what is 6 divided by 1 quarter. I'm just going to type a 24 there. After 6 years, what's this investment worth? We're talking about money, so I shouldn't need to tell you what to round off to. What do we always round off to when it comes to money unless they say different? How many decimal places? Dollars and cents, right? So I'm not going to say to you if it's a money question. Round off to 4 decimal. I'm going to assume you clue in. This ends up being 943 1.46, 943 1.46. That's the value. How much did he earn? Well, how much did he start out with?  Probably I'll be more interested in trying to find those numbers because they're exponents and logs, but let's see. Example 2, we're going to come back to. Example 3, Barbara invests $8,000 in an account which pays compound interest of 6% per annum. I'm going to underline the phrase compounded monthly. How long would it take to the nearest necessary month for her investment to double in value? Okay, I'm going to scribble out these. I'm going to write down A equals A0C to the T over P. Do I know that? 8,000? Do I know that? 16,000? I agree with Carson, but I also disagree with Carson. Did they say they want the money to double in value? As my shortcut, I could also have simply said, let my initial amount be 1 and my final amount be 2, because when I divide that 8,000 over and put it underneath the 16,000, you know what? 16,000 over 8,000 is going to end up being 2. I don't care what you do, but I'm lazy. I'm going to put a 2 and a 1 there just because I can. XC, well, that's going to be 1 plus 0.06 over, what are the compounding terms of this one? What did I underline? What am I going to divide that puppy by? 12. Usually, I check if it works out evenly, nicely on my calculator, 1 plus 0.06 divided by 12. You know what? I'm going to write 1.005 from now on, because that's easier to write. If it worked out to a yucky, long, repeating decimal, then I'd probably actually just keep writing this in brackets. Is that okay, Katie? 1.005. What are they asking me to find in this question? I don't know. Okay. Do I know the growth period? What? No? Think carefully. Do I know the growth period? Amanda? What? 1.12 compounded monthly. By the way, Amanda, dividing by 1.12, same as multiplying by what? More specific. Dividing by 1.12, yeah, okay. When I give you the number, I'm looking for the answer. Dividing by a fraction, same as multiplying by what? The reciprocal. Dividing by 1.12, same as multiplying by 12. I think they're asking me to find t, which is an exponent, which means, woo-hoo, logs. I think I'll have this, 2 equals 1.005 to the power of Amanda, look up, yes? Dividing by 1.12, same as multiplying by 12, and that looks less terrifying to you guys, because you guys seem to hate fractions. I like them. Me and fractions, BFF, in fact, BFFF, best friends forever fractions. Is that okay, Sabrina? Where's the variable sitting?  Log of both sides. Now, if I'd written the 8,000 there and the 16,000, I would, first of all, divide it over to make it easier. We were clever. Is that one going to make a difference? Then I say, and we're going to take the log of both sides right now. We're going to get this. The log of 2 equals the log of 1.005, and that 12t is going to drop to the front there, isn't it? I did that on one line because I'm running out of room. How would I get the t by itself? How would I get the t by itself? More specific, but yeah, whoever said divide, what am I going to do with this 12? Divide? What am I going to do with this log? Divide. You know what? I think t is going to end up being the log of 2 all divided by 12 log of 1.005. I typed something in wrong. What did I type in wrong? I can't believe I did it. If I'd done it on purpose, that would have been great teaching it. How many numbers on the bottom? How many terms on the bottom? Two? Did I use brackets? No.  Ah, that looks better, 11.58 years. This answer doesn't want an answer in years. What does this answer want its answer in? Months. Okay. How do I go from years to months? Divide by 12? So you're saying 3 years is 3 divided by 12 a quarter of a month? Ah, what? By the way, did I just give you a fairly easy way to figure it out yourself, right? Times by 12. And since I have this number here, times 12, 100, and oh, it says to the nearest necessary month, 139 months. Try number one, try number three, and I think you can try eight. And then I also have for you today two take home quizzes. Let me hand those out. Two? Yeah, sorry. It's the way it's going to work. It's coming up.


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And this was my first kind of experience of working in a university that attracted students who kind of came to the university primarily because it was an opportunity for them to get out of poverty. And that had a huge influence on the way I thought about universities. And you'll see that play itself out in this talk. In fact, I'm going to give today. And the second, of course, is the huge ructions that are going on in South Africa at the moment. And I don't think any of us from South Africa, at least, could be immune to the huge impact of this fees must fall campaign and the roads must fall campaign and so on. And again, I think that we have to try and think about that in a slightly dispassionate way just to try and understand what is going on there. And if you ask me what are the three or four things going on in these campaigns, the first one is just the whole issue around socio-political change. The idea that students around the world, when the opportunity arises, get out there and we all know what happened in South Africa in the 70s and 80s. Many of us were kind of galvanized to be active and so on as students at that time. Then the second, of course, is just the whole issue around access to high education, access to studies, massive demands for participation in high education. And then the third one, very much along the lines that Neil was talking about just now, but also raising the issues around pedagogical transformation. But slightly broader than that, in fact, I mean, the whole issue around kind of the transformation of the knowledge project, if you like, which includes the pedagogy. But just the whole issue around decolonization and so on, just a very complex terrain that I think many of us have been captivated by to some extent. So you see these two things kind of play themselves out in this talk. And as Jenny indicated, I really am not an expert in OER, so I hope you're not expecting me to provide kind of a detailed analysis of OER. But on the other hand, I'm very interested in that. So when Catherine's invitation came to me, it felt like deja vu because this is exactly the kinds of things that we were talking about 10, 12, 14, 15 years ago. She reminded me about the meeting in Addis. And by the way, when I saw this today, it was like, wow, it's like a dream like here. She was at those meetings too. That meeting in Addis that Catherine reminded me about was really a remarkable meeting, I think. And basically it was about the future of higher education on the continent. But it had some really remarkable people in it. Neville Alexander was there and Humbud Mandani and Toleramancu and a range of people who just provided fantastic input. But the issues were not that different from the issues we are discussing now and the issues that I'm going to be trying to raise. So it's issues around access, success, research, affordability, kinds of things that high education systems have to deal with at all times. Growth in enrollment at Kenyon universities, growth in the last year is 23%. The bulk of the growth was women, students, which is great. The sad news is that the national budget has only gone up for high education, has only gone up by 3%. So you've got 23% of the students in the system coming through the system, if you like. But I have to tell you that's a recipe for disaster. It's happened in South Africa. So unless something dramatic happens, there's going to be big issues there. The second is the whole issue around the skills deficit, barrier to economic growth in Cameroon. And by the way, that's exactly the same discussions happening in South Africa and elsewhere. And I think we have to spend a little bit of time today talking about high education in the context of the post school system. That it's not just about high education, but it's about that whole post school system. In Egypt, three students at the Benisuev University were expelled for painting slogans against Al-Sisi. Which is like fascinating. Then, I don't know how to pronounce this, but Khamis, I suppose, the Khamis ministers, those are Francophone ministers of high education on the continent, signed an agreement to harmonize curricula with a focus on ICT and digitization, a strategy for IP, and the strengthening of open and distance education. All very relevant. There's a new collaboration between France's HEC, the most prestigious school of commerce with Francophone African societies about high education leadership development. There's the big, going global conference that happened in Cape Town. And our minister, Minister Blade Zimande, kind of said that the route of high education is going to be around whether South Africa chooses kind of beneficiation against knowledge economy, which is a really ridiculous dichotomy. I don't know why he posed it like that. And our minister of science and technology immediately stepped in and said, sorry, that's a false dichotomy. Of course, but he raised the issue around regional integration, which was a buzzword in Addis, I remember speaking about that over and over and over again. And then the whole issue around the role of the humanities and social sciences, which is a passion of his, but which I think is a really big issue. I think that what emerged in the student campaigns now in South Africa is really an impetus for us to focus in on humanities and social sciences and to try to understand what role they're playing in the transformation of our society. Anyway, it goes on like that. And each one of these, by the way, really, by the way, the one that you might be really interested in is that there was a pledge made at the Global Meeting for a concerted, united front approach to open access and open education resources. And that's really interesting development there. And it goes on like that. And the interesting thing, of course, is that wherever you look around the world, in fact, there seems to be a growing impetus of student activity. So Japan, for the first time in the history of Japan, Japanese students are now taking on political issues in a very direct way. Germany, California, the US at least in California in particular, UK, Chile, Canada, South Africa, Hong Kong, China. It doesn't matter where you look, it seems, you know. India, by the way, is a huge rations going on there in particular around the new economic policies of the government, but also around the support for the anti-cast movements and so on. So lots and lots of student activities going on around the world. And the one that really stood out for me is an article by Ibrahim Wanda. And he just spoke in this article, speaks about how university governance around the continent continues to be captured for narrow political ends. And I think that that's something that we always have to be on guard against. Okay, so I'm going to take an approach which might be deemed to be a little bit out of step, I think, with the way high education is being thought about around the world. You know, for too many years, I think we've been talking about high education and the knowledge economy, high education and development, high education. I want to change that a little bit today. I want to make one little kind of quote from Nelson Mandela, which I think is one of the most profound things one hears about education. And he says education is the great engine of personal development. South Africa will know this almost by heart. It is through education that the daughter of a peasant can become a doctor, that the son of a mine worker can become the head of the mine, that a child of farm workers can become the president of a great nation. It is what we make out of what we have, not what we are given, that separates one person from another. But, you know, just the idea that education isn't simply about an expenditure. Like, you know, it's not about saying, you know, we have to do this. We have to do this because we are the government. But it's about social and economic transformation. It's about saying that education is at the heart of the transformation agenda. And then the Thomas Piketty just constantly reminds us that in unequal societies, the one way for inequality to be addressed or tackled is for strong social investment in education, and in particular in high education. So I want to just relate a kind of a personal experience. You know, we went through a strategy planning kind of process at DUT some while ago, and I know this is very neoliberal and all that, but you know, you have to do this now in South Africa. Universities are required to do this by the state to have these plans and so on. And, you know, there was a task team working on this, and lots of consultations, students were brought in, lots of discussion and so on. And then one morning, you know, I got up in a cold sweat, right? Because it suddenly occurred to me that if you took the draft strategic plan, which had already been approved by Senate and so on, if you took the draft strategic plan that had been assembled at DUT, and you changed a few words here and there, it would be exactly the same as a strategic plan for Harvard or Oxford or UKZN. It suddenly dawned on me that actually there was nothing in that strategic plan that was about DUT.  Of course there were, you know, but not in essence. So I got to my office and just cancelled all the meetings and reconvened that team of people. And we spent a whole day just kind of talking. And two things emerged, you know, out of that discussion. The first one was that we had to think about what it was that was at the heart of DUT. What was the DNA of DUT, right? At Durban University of Technology, what was right at the heart of it? And two things emerged. The one was we had very special students. Most of them were underprepared from the schools that they came from. Most of them, it was a miracle that most of them got, that all of them got qualifications at school to come to university, that we had to focus on our students. That actually, students had to be right at the heart of what we thought the university was about. That we had to ensure that whatever we did at the university placed the students at the center. The second thing was engagement. Just the idea that you had to have a very, very close link with your context. That, of course, you produce, you know, knowledge about the global economy and for the global knowledge system and so on. But that the heart of the university really rested in its local context. And that it produced knowledge about its local context and took that knowledge into the global terrain, if you like. What is important about that, right? The important thing about that is that it allows institutions like DOT and systems like the South African system to enter the global knowledge system in our own terms. We're not kind of taking on a global knowledge enterprise, but we're designing our own. And I'm going to spend a short while just now just talking a little bit more about that. So I think that what I'm really suggesting is that, you know, when we went through this process two things emerged. One is focus on the students. Let's try to make sure that our system works for students. The second thing was to say let's try to understand how to design a university that's seriously engaged. By the way, it's not just engagement with communities, right? It's engagement with local industries, engagement with local government, it's engagement with local communities, it's engagement with the NGO sector, it's engagement with activist bodies, you know, in the terrain. So the idea was that this university would really seek a place within its local context as a place that local communities, local industry and so on saw as their university, you know. I really wanted us to be a kind of place where the parents of our students didn't think of the university as a place somewhere there where the students were being sent to be civilized, right? That actually this was a university that really reflected their lives. So in that sense, let me just, by the way, this wasn't dreamt up, right? So it reflected what the university was doing already but we were just trying to systematize that to some extent. So let me give you an example, right? A young biotechnologist by the name of Paul Mukwena decides that he would love to try and understand how fermentation as a food processing enterprise had evolved in the communities that he grew up in, right? How do you get at that knowledge, right? You can't go to your laboratory and say, okay, I'm going to put some chemicals together and see if this works. You can't do that. What you have to do is you have to go and speak to the people who did it, right? So what did he do? He assembled a team of students, all of whom had to be proficient in Zulu. Couldn't take somebody there who didn't understand Zulu because the women he was going to talk to were all going to describe what they were doing in Zulu. Strikes up a partnership with the local chief. The university had to sign a memorandum of understanding and so on because the chief wasn't going to talk to Paul Mukwena who was, he didn't recognize as like a senior person in the university. So I had to go there and meet with the chief and so on. The chief actually asked the students to speak. There was a master student there who happened to be in Gobo, surname in Gobo. The chief was also in Gobo. And when she spoke, she said, the chief said, what kind of a Gobo are you? You can't even speak our language properly. Of course, she had been to what we call in South Africa a model C school, right? So the story goes like this. So the group of students and Paul Mukwena interview four generations of women, ask the women to describe how they did fermentation. They then go back to the laboratory and they test each one, check to see how it was done, publish it. And a few weeks later, there's an email from China which says, hello, hello. We're doing exactly the same thing here. Can we collaborate, right? The point I'm trying to make is that that community through this process had its own knowledge validated through a scientific kind of enterprise. So this kind of engagement is really important because what it does is that it locates the institutions within their context, right? We have to begin where our students are. You can't start somewhere else and hope somehow that students will magically fit into your program. You know, again, I mean, my experience at the old University of Natal in South Africa was, you know, the physics department said, you know, sort of a job like to teach students who are not ready for this, you know. They must go somewhere else, right? Go to the Center for University Education Development and be tutored, you know, and then we'll deal with them. Or let's create a Science Foundation program. By the way, it was a great Science Foundation program. Diane Grayson created. But, you know, you can't do that anymore because now it's really the majority of our students. Those are our students, right? You have to start where the students are. Then you have to ask yourself, do we know our students? Do we know what they've come with to the university? Do we know what they don't come with to the university? Do we know what they are reading? Do we know what their socio-economic backgrounds are? And so on, okay? So it seems to me, at least, that there's a really major challenge for us to try to understand how to begin to adjust the student status. And one of the big issues, of course, is to try to understand how to begin to lever the big databases we have, try to understand how to kind of use analytics to get the kind of information that you require. More importantly, it seems to me that there might actually be need on an ongoing basis for ethnographic type studies that might kind of give us much deeper insights into how to begin to address the issue around pedagogical change and so on. Let's just turn to engagement for a moment. I think that, I've spoken about this already, and I don't want to spend too much time, any more time on it, but just to say that the issue of engagement is very much at the, you know, so the question really is, you know, when universities talk about their strategic plans and so on, you know, we decide, you know, we're going to either have two pillars or we're going to have three pillars. Teaching and learning and research, and some universities say three pillars, teaching and learning, research and engagement, meaning really community engagement. We took a slightly different approach. We said no, let's think about engagement as our pillar, and let's just see how that represents itself in our teaching and learning, in our research, in our, you know, outreach work and whatever else goes on at the university. So it's really turning things around a little bit. Now, I'm not suggesting that this should be the same for UCT and so on, but I'm just saying that for a university like DUT, this seemed like a much more positive kind of approach to take. Okay, so the one thing that really struck me last year during the upheavals and now the continuing upheavals is I had to ask myself, you know, just where are the defenders of the university? You know, where are the people who kind of really are going to stand up and say to the students, you know, who are running amok, excuse me, you can't do this, you know? By the way, there were no defenders of the university. And I want to just say that actually it's almost true in fact that one of the most, well, one of the most terrifying things I experienced was, you know, was having a meeting with parliamentarians whose starting point was that the cause of the violence was the universities.  Students are just reacting to what you are doing. So just the whole issue around legitimacy of high education. You know, it's not something that we can just take for granted like we did in the old days, right? It's something that you really have to begin to work at and try to understand how to construct kind of activities and advocacy programs and so on that allows us to get at communities and parliamentarians and so on around the issue of legitimacy. Well, let me just say, I know Liz reads the New Yorker, I think it was under three or four weeks ago, there was this absolutely fascinating article about S. Devlin who's a designer of sets, right? Sets for big shows, okay? You know, Bruce Springsteen and so on, right? But not just that, she does sets of Shakespeare and so on. Now, is Devlin in this article, you have to read this article, it's an absolutely fascinating article, and she designs spaces in a kind of way which interplays light, space and perception, right? Light, space and perception. So now you have to ask yourself, well, actually, I don't know how many of you have been, I'm sure you've all been to a big concert, right? Kind of, I'm sure many of us in South Africa would have been to the Bruce Springsteen concert because, you know, we are that age generation. The first thing that strikes you is that the development of those sets can't be done by somebody in a department of entertainment, in a department of drama studies, you know? Because there's just too much of heat there, right? Too much of power and the lighting is just of another magnitude and so on. So the first thing that strikes you is, actually, this is not just about understanding light. This is about understanding, this is engineering, right? So the person designing this had better have a bloody good idea about light and all that and sound, but also about the engineering. Secondly, when you read this article, it dawns on you that actually the role of psychology is shockingly high. Just the interplay of light and space and perception suddenly kicks in and you suddenly realize that actually, you know, this isn't simply about having lights flashing and so on. This is about understanding the way in which people interact with light. The point I'm trying to make to you is that, you know, if a young person wants to be one of these set designers like S. Devlin, the bottom line is that this person has to be educated in three or four different fields, right? So the point I'm making is that we have to think about curricula in the future in integrated forms. I mean, the interesting thing is that the engineering fraternity now, for example, is now designing programs around urban engineering, for example, instead of mechanical and civil and so on. So urban engineers learn about engineering in the usual forms, but also they learn about urban planning and so on, you know? So it suddenly dawns on you that we really have to think about curricula when we're thinking about the future. Think about curricula which are much more integrated, which are much more kind of designed around employment and so on rather than imagine that what, you know, our traditional ways of training are going to be suitable. Let me just go to that Australian study around tomorrow's digitally enabled workforce. That's the title of the study. It was done by the CSIR in Australia. Tomorrow's digitally enabled workforce is what it's called. And they talk about, in this study, training people for the second half of the chess board. And what they mean by this is that there's an explosion in device connectivity, huge data volumes, huge computing speeds, rapid advances in automated systems. And now the question is, if you're training engineers or whatever, how do you take that into account? You know, what impact does that have on the curriculum? And it goes on, there's a whole big chapter on that. The second is this area around porous boundaries. It's what I spoke about earlier. And then there's the whole issue around what they call tangible intangibles, tangible intangibles. And it's about employment growth in the service industries, especially in education and healthcare, increase as we move into the knowledge economy, which increase these opportunities of employment in education and healthcare, increase as we move into the knowledge economy. Then there's a whole thing around kind of attitudes and mindsets to handle kind of dynamic, being in a dynamic labour force and so on. So, you know, meaning in fact that no young person is going to be in a single job, right? You're going to be in this world of work and you're going to be shifting from work opportunity to work opportunity. There's no possibility of any society in the world having high education systems which take the full load, if you like, right? You know, I was once at a meeting with our minister. I just share this with you because it was so funny. We were in a meeting with the minister and at the end of the meeting, the minister turned to the DG and the director general, you know, the South Africa's local, I'm talking about. And the director general, then he said to the director general, DG, do you have anything to say at the end of the meeting? So, Gwebs then stands up and says, he says, Professor Bawa, he says, you know, I was the chair, he's the other type. He says, Professor Bawa, he says, let me tell you about what happened to me this weekend. So he says, I was at home, you know, in the Eastern Cape and he saw some people building. So he says, you know, these people put four bricks, these were his words, right? They put four bricks and then they stood like this to see if the bricks were in a straight line. And then he said the most amazing thing. He said, see, Professor, your universities are not doing what they're supposed to be doing. So I said, what do you mean? So he said, you're not training the bricklayers to be able to do. You know, I just, I didn't even wait for the minister to allow me to speak.  The point is really that if you don't have a functional post-school system, the universities are going to be expected to do everything and they just can't be done. So we have to think very hard about the post-school system and to try and build the post-school system in a way that makes sense for each society. Here's something that's quite controversial, right? I think we have to do something about the boys. I think we have to do something about the boys. We have to do something about the boys. You know, in South Africa at the moment, the ratio is 58 to 42 percent, women to men, right? If you look at the graduation rates, it's even more skewed. The girls are doing better, the boys. Clear? But every single indicator of dysfunctionality in our society is coming from those young boys. The violence, the crime, the sexual violence. It's all happening from the young boys. I think we have to begin to ask ourselves what's going on there. I don't have the answer and I don't think it's a simple answer, but it's something that we have to begin to look at. And my last comment is to Neil. My last comment is I think that you should build the OER stuff into a social contract around high education and society. You know, it's not just about OER. I mean, I think it's about open access. It's about open data. It's about all of that, you know. But I think that that needs to be built into a social contract. Let me put it this way. There's a social contract in each society, in each country, between the people and high education. And I think that's where I think it should be built in. With that, let me say thank you so much and I hope that it was useful.


Welcome back with us folks. Tonight's recap is Facebook that we played on Friday. We played same day exploration Same day exploration is extremely risky. However, we found a deal in those premiums and sometimes It's really worth looking for that. So we'll show you how we managed to find a deal So it was securing something that was somewhat a safer play and something that we found that was While we were minimizing risk playing something that was already in the money So in order to do so you have to understand what it is. What really is playing a Call option on a ticker. Let me show you this now When you play a Call in this particular case we were playing the three seven seven five Calls so what it does it gives you the right to buy Facebook at a set price of three seven seven five at expiration Right, so if you are a month ahead Obviously this comes with time right time before expiration So there's a possibility that it goes up and a possibility that it will go down or possibly that it will stay flat Right, so you're paying for this range hood that this range that you're Believing that it's either going to go up or downs paying for a possibility that will Be going in one direction or the other just closer you get you are to expiration That range will narrow and that range will become very very Slim let's say five minutes until expiration Chances are That the stock is not going to move much right as opposed to a month ahead or a year ahead The chances are higher that the stock will move in a wider direction Now when you are very close to expiration and this particular case we played Facebook a little over four hours before expiration now What we did we played the three seven seven five Why I'll show you this now we entered I'll I'll show you why we entered in and What we thought was was going on but we entered here Which is very close to a Here under three eight it was three seventy nine something now we paid two forty nine two forty nine For so at expiration How much would you pay for your stock if you're having the right to buy three seven seven fives right Three you can buy Facebook for the price of three seven seven five at expiration and For two forty nine more At expiration, I'll give you the right to buy it in This particular case for break even this is how they calculate the break even price you add both of them so basically what it's giving you is basically three seventy nine ninety nine Right you add these two together For anything higher than three seven seven nine ninety nine if it closes above that you have a deal You're much better off to buy at that price Then to buy let's say at the high of the day at three eighty three seventy nine if it were to close at expiration 283 so it gives you the right to buy the stock the amount of Shares that you have in one contract is 100 So if you have one contract is you can buy 100 shares of Facebook at a given price of three seventy seven five plus your premium that you paid for buying that right So basically what it gives you is the right to buy at the set price now we found When Facebook was trading for hours before expiration at the price of 249 so basically it's giving you the idea like we just said three seventy seven ninety nine For break even usually this premium has more price more premium into it If they see a movement that will go up or down Same if you were to take Let me get rid of some of this things here If you had looked at the three eighty calls Or even the three eighty two five calls They had a price Attached to them why because there was a possibility that it would go up that way Or down that way, but that possibility you pay a price for that now what we found was something that that had no price attached to it basically some call it juice there was no juice in the three seven seven fives Because all we were paying is The price as if it was closing right where it was when we bought it. I think it was Somewhere around the three seventy nine three seventy nine point three or something when we bought so basically There was not much Only about seventy cents That we were paying For that premium For buying that four hours Now given the fact that we were on support and I'll show you that in a second on support on Very low premium See I I was a three eighty I could have gone three eighty, but I was paying for something that I Thought we would test three eighty, but I didn't know if we were going to close above three eighty or not So basically looking at the three seven seven fives They were already in the money if we had kept going down I mean the value of the whole thing would have been zero if we had closed under three seven seven five Because no one will pay more than three seven seven fives For a stock that is under that You understand that right so this is why it's worth zero now it closed at three seventy eight sixty nine So basically no one will pay more than a dollar 19 I Hope you all see this so it's three seven seven five Plus a dollar nineteen We'll give you this No one will pay more than a dollar nineteen. So basically the premiums at expiration were only worth of dollar nineteen But still used to have value in those and those calls as opposed to if you had gone three eighty or three eighty two fives Where you would have lost everything now back to this It's safe We call it safe Sorry safe fur because it's still Friday safe for why? one it's in the money so We were almost 250 in the money so that it needs to go down quite a bit in order to be to be read on the play to The value of the premiums were cheap how did how to determine that you look at the price of the underlying you add The premium let's say you're sorry you look at the price of your calls you add the premium So in this particular case the calls were three seven seven five You add the premium Premium was two forty nine. This is three seventy nine point Ninety nine stock was at three seventy nine Thirty ish Basically your seventy cents away For the time that you're buying I I believe that it was pretty cheap because as soon as we get to three eighty We're worth more Than two forty nine At expiration so basically as soon as we climb above three eighty premiums will go higher And higher at about a rate of one to one money penny for penny So I was not looking for something that will go a thousand percent But I was something for something looking for something that would test at least three eighty one three eighty two Levels so basically we were at least making a hundred two hundred dollars per contract this means we were on a safe side and Looking up for something that was decent so Let me get rid of this here two points to remember It was in the money look for premium and add your calls plus the premium and This will give you an idea if you're paying too much or It was a deal to enter with now. This is about the safe play Why did we go in there? we all played The previous day and ended up being look I'll Recap this it was a red day on the market yet It was trying Not quite Another chop same thing Dumped with the rest of the market and then tried again It really looked like it was going to pop But it did it right at the end of the day it dumped But however when the market is going that way and this is staying flat It tells you that if the market is going flat where marketing starts climbing this is going to go You know strong this shows that the mark this was Strength because it was not moving down with the rest of the market now what we did We had a line Show you this we had a line about here, which is a top that didn't cross didn't cross and Then at the end of the day it touched it and then rejected it and went down now at the open What it did it just started screaming upwards right away went for a new high and then it Started losing steam with the rest of the market because at the time market was tanking with the rest of well Apple was not helping, but it was dropping hard and I told you this before The 200 EMA 200 EMA is this green line on Tech 200 200 EMA is really something that you should look at Add this with you know multiple tops that we had on the previous day This was the support a lost support Hit the 200 EMA and then it gained right on top of it now a rejection would have been we lose it Hit the the old support and then we go down Didn't do that Came down and then right away. We started steaming up and this is when we entered and this was also in At pretty much the same place where the market was catching a grip so basically my targets were this level That level and I believe we sold Because there was so much strength in it. It was just kept on going and going I never thought we would test the high of the day, but you know, we sold in 383 basically we bought calls to 49 and fire call correctly. We sold the calls at 528 Which isn't bad it's a lower 100% on something that as I explained just before was fairly safe This is Friday expiration safe is a very long extended word to mention something that is Rewarding however always use caution with that But I just showed you that playing something that was already in the money can be profitable safer and I hope that when you are playing Something you will now look at how much you're paying for that time that you're buying so add the premium to the price of your calls or puts and This will determine how much well and This will determine how much time you're paying for the how much money you're paying for the time that you're playing Guys, I hope you learned something and that you will be able to to play something with a little more Risk management in it and I hope you I hope to see you again in a very short time Thanks for watching and don't forget to subscribe to our flight to our channel. Thanks. Have a good one folks


Project Stadia is incredibly important to build a broad basis among all the countries in the world, not only the members of Interpol, but all countries in the world that host major events or have events where major security precautions are required. It provides this firm foundation where they have a guideline in order to initiate all the required security operations together with other required competencies in that particular area in order to make that event a complete success. It is essential for all of the countries to go through those guidelines, apply those guidelines and make sure that all of the commanders, all of the members, all of the personnel who are assigned to that particular event are all competent in the activities prescribed by the Project Stadia guidelines so that they can apply them, make the event a success and mitigate risk and threat. I would certainly recommend that all operational commanders, all persons in positions of authority for any events, whether they are security related or not, participate in the programs developed in terms of Project Stadia so that they can get a very good background and how to manage in a concerted and overall way the intentions which are required in order to make a success of these issues. It becomes very important that there is a common understanding across the world in terms of participating in nations of Interpol that they are all on the same page in terms of the prescriptions, in terms of the guidelines so that international cooperation is facilitated. I'd like to thank Interpol for taking the initiative in bringing together experts, subject matter experts from around the world in the security sphere to a conference of this nature. It is the first conference and it is long, long overdue. It is my submission that the participants in this conference have years and years of experience in terms of security operations and all have contributed to a better understanding amongst the participants, amongst the speakers, amongst the people who have never been exposed to areas like this that they are now far better prepared, far more informed in terms of security management.


Well, it's certainly an honor to be recognized as one of the distinguished dissertations at Michigan. I work on religion in the state in 20th century America, looking at the American military chaplaincy from World War I through Vietnam. In the middle of World War II, there was a Lutheran chaplain serving in the Pacific. He was a regular writer to his wife, so it's nice because you kind of see the development of his thinking over time. The Pacific War was a horrible confrontation with death, and he writes toward the end of war that while he had the opportunity to return to his civilian pulpit, which he left to serve in the military, he didn't think he could do it anymore because having been in the military, he had been exposed to so many more people that it just felt too narrow and too confined. After the war, he did not return to civilian pulpit and actually became a university chaplain because he felt that was sort of the most sort of corresponding to how he now understood his role as a pastor. I know I'm in good company with the other awardees, but also I know there's just a lot of really good work out there. To be recognized for doing that work, I think is a testament to what Michigan gives its students in terms of training. I certainly felt supported by Iraq, and that was money that let me do the research I did, so that's certainly very important. We're here to work in a discipline to pursue a degree, but that happens because of people. It happens because of the faculty you're working with, but it also happens because of the people in your cohort or the people in your program, and those are the things that I will carry with me forever.


This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Thursday noon, folks. Seth Rolson here in our Think Tech studios downtown Honolulu with our show, Where the Drone Leads, where we bring to the public and to our trusted viewers, the current stories, breaking news and information and really critical information for them on the world of drones, dronism, and where it's all going, which is what we call Where the Drone Leads. With us on the show today, far away in Las Vegas by the magic of duct tape, cell phones and Skype, we have with us Hawaii's own Chuck DeVaney, UH graduate and UAS entrepreneur at large, currently living in Las Vegas after sampling the life in Washington, D.C. and such, which is where you go after you graduate from UH apparently. And standing next to him is Dr. Trent LeKazek, who is the president of FlightWave Aerospace and is sitting on and bursting with information for us on a release to the public of a brand new hybrid trike, copter, excellent new configuration drones. And we'll hear all about that in a minute, but you guys are standing backstage. We can see the equipment behind you at the Las Vegas Convention Center where the inter-drone is taking place. And the carts moving things around. So inter-drone's in first or second day right now for this year. Tell us what kind of moods and what kind of themes, what kind of sense are you getting from the directions that are coming for some of the discussions at inter-drone? Go ahead and take that one, Trent. I'm gonna be the human tripod. All right, hey, pleasure to meet everybody. I'm Trent LeKazek and yeah. Okay, system. And I really just think pleasure to be able to work in Hawaii before. We've been there a couple times with early, early prototypes. And the one we've got here today is one of our evolution of a lot of our operations that we've done there in Hawaii. The drone floor, the inter-drone exhibit floor today is really busy. It's full of excitement and a lot of people that are running around just trying to learn more about it. I think one of the things that's been really interesting to see is the mix of not just the individual sectors or elements in the value chain of drone, the companies that are making the tools, the components, the cameras, the software to make it work, but also there's a lot of people running around here who are looking for drone solutions because they're trying to get a small business off the ground with drones as one of their key parts. Oh, it's a really awesome mix of and really big buzz of all the people that are just trying to solve problems here. Well that's pretty cool. So you have the problem owners who come in looking for a solution and you have the people like you who are generating the components of solution. You get people like Chuck who do the analysis and this sort of thing for the data as it's pulled together by whatever sensors you might have. So the whole group is gathered. You know what's cool to me, and we talked about this on the show several times in the past, the world is starting to realize it needs to pull together requirements from a user perspective in order to drive this whole thing in the right direction. And we're starting to see that. I think at the end of the month is the NSI gathering in DC starting to pull together the technical standards and things. So the business is starting to happen like a business, isn't it? That must make you feel pretty good, Trent, having been in on this for four or five years now and having a product that is certainly at the cutting edge. Of course it got partly developed on Linai and partly developed in Kanayohi Bay so you would expect it to be on the cutting edge as it is. So tell us about FlightWave and Edge and how that's all moving forward. Sure, yeah. I started FlightWave right out of grad school. I was working on my PhD at Stanford and then my co-founder there. And right as I was wrapping stuff up I was encouraged by a couple of people including one of my mentors, Bill McGillibray. He works in the Coast Guard as Science Liaison and a good friend of course, Pets, who has encouraged me to try and get a drone for marine applications off the ground here. And so that's kind of where we started. I got into UAVs and drones way back when in 2012 or 2013 when I was part of a project, a research project that went out to Oku, American Samoa. It's a little island in the middle of the Pacific. He kept going from US to Hawaii onto Australia and stopped halfway. That's where he would find it. But we went out there with a little DIY quadcopter and tried to map coral reef with it. And that was a pretty tough experience for us. The drone could only fly for 10 minutes. It was really windy and every second of the flight of the mission I was worried about this thing accidentally landing in the water. So fast forward to today and we're trying to solve a lot of those problems and those pain points with the flight wave edge. And flight wave edge is a vertical takeoff and landing airplane. It has a unique configuration with two independently tilting propellers in the front and one very large propeller in the back for endurance and hover. And wings, very high aspect ratio wings for endurance and cruise. As an airplane, this vehicle will fly for two hours which lets you cover a really large amount of area to 100 kilometers if you flew in a straight line. So yeah, it's a beautifully molded vehicle made out of fiberglass. It has some really awesome components in it. It's extremely modular, packs down into a case and the payloads are also modular and we've made them agnostic in the sense that our nose cones are open and we have a lot of different types of sensors that we can fit in the payload into the nose cone. So yeah, I actually have a box here with the edge in it. Let's take a look. Okay, obviously we have the edges not put together here. Okay, there's the fuselage component. Yeah, you get to see it in pieces and I'll put it together. It has four camera cameras in it and it goes on the nose here and twist locks like a camera lens, like a DSLR camera lens. So that's our payload interface. So now that's the vehicle. This is a flight wave edge and I'll back up so you can see the whole thing. The vehicle, the aircraft is a 1.2 meter span. I'll take the tip, it's pretty tall. Yeah, but yeah, the parameters here, as I mentioned, they tilt independently tilt and that's how we do hovering and that's how we control it and yaw. And that's also how we get it set up to fly as a forward flight vehicle. So as an airplane, these two colors tilt forward, flies as an airplane like that. That is a pretty incredible piece of equipment you're holding in your hands there. You have all the free worlds aspect ratio locked up in that one vehicle. So nobody else can claim aspect ratio like you can which is gonna be performance and it's gonna be performance margin. It's gonna be thrust margin as such associated with that nice wing you've got there. And this has come a long way since those days at Kuhuku with the first instantiations and that was something in itself and then of course over on I as well. And it's really interesting that you arrived at this from your own practical experience and your own attempts to solve an environmental problem. So basically extremely personal user needs have been built and baked into this design. And you've got marine orientation and I think I might have heard somewhere in the past maybe a 40 knot wind criteria built into this.  That's right, we designed it to be weather tough, weather hardened, the environment, the marine environment as I'm sure you all know is a really tough place to operate. And when we set out, we tried to pick a technology that would be stress hardened in the marine that if we could handle anything over the water we could handle it anywhere. That's where we came from. Yeah, Ted is mentioning the old prototype. So this thing used to be a foamy flying wing with hot glue and popsicle sticks essentially. And there might have been some duct tape in there here and there too. Yeah, exactly, duct tape. But we've, this vehicle now is much more refined of after-created as Ted mentioned is really important. It's, I have an aerospace background. I studied aerospace engineering in graduate school and that's one of the places where we drew from. We knew that the wing translates to high endurance. And just the big trick though when you get to make a vehicle like this with the highest penetration rate is how do you make the structure strong enough but light enough. Really light. So that's really great. And you could just even think of embedded sensors in the wings and other things like that to take care of interference between antennas and such. And there's a long future for this kind of a configuration. Yeah, radios, the radios. And we actually do have some sensors in the wing like a compass, magnetometers in the wing. So it gets it way out of the way from all the interference of the motors. And it snaps together like Legos. Like Legos. Yeah, that's cool. And then let's switch over to Chuck for a moment. Chuck is kind of a master in my mind of the world of sensor analysis and the software applications that are used to make sense out of what drones and UASs collect. Chuck, how would you see that world evolving especially when you see something like what Trent has developed here and how those two come together? Well, it's really nice to see an aircraft with the type of capability to be able to take off and land from the deck of a ship and be able to go out and do a survey or do a location mission, sort of the con-ops that this particular aircraft was sort of built around. What I'm, my company's moving more towards is advanced video analytics where we're able to take this computer vision and be able to seek out those objects or colors in the water and a control center, the location of that object, survivor and the like. And that's pretty much stemmed from a lot of the video analytics that our company already does in the gaming industry, using computer vision for facial recognition, counting chips on a table, so on and so forth. So in terms of taking advantage of what Trent's done here, you would need a sensor package that supports a computer vision analysis routine and that could be looking at the video stream, it could be looking at stills, it could be doing color, it could be doing blob, it could be doing polygon extraction, there's all kinds of extractions you can create once you have the imagery in your hand. And that needs to be delivered in such a way that somebody could easily exploit the information and disseminate it to those stakeholders that need to act upon it. So it's quickly, rapidly deploying an aircraft and instantly getting actionable information that is invaluable in multiple verticals and applications. So you guys need to go to a bar and on a napkin, write down what the payload looks like that would provide that information that can fit into Trent's aircraft. And then we need to get it out here, out in Hawaii, where we have needs building every day. And we also would like to get our hands on a few of these elements and products and start running them through functional and reliability testing in our fairly extreme and challenging environment out here. We have the high winds, the high vertical shears, we have the saltwater intrusion. So the very things that Trent's designed for, we ought to put them to test out here as soon as we can get our hands on one Trent. Well, it can really fast to do that for you, man. It's funny you mentioned a bar, we got all these drink tickets that we got in here. Okay, so what happened there? So the napkin and the bar will do well. Let's get back to that in a minute after our break here. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, and power and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. And we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. This is the second half of our show, Where the Drone Leads. Thursday afternoon here in Honolulu. And a little bit later, Thursday in Las Vegas, Nevada, where Chuck Devaney, our Hawaii expatriate, and Trent Lekezic, who is the president and CEO and founder of FlightWave Aerospace, are standing by. And we're going to take a look at some of the things that we've done here at Sister Power. So we're going to take a look at some of the things that are standing by. And they're at the Las Vegas Convention Center. They're apparently not in the slot machine area, because you don't hear that traditional noise going on. And they're apparently not on the show floor, because there's exposed pipes in the background. So exactly where are you in the convention center? Looks like the loading dock, Ted. A loading dock, OK. Well, that's kind of interesting, because a loading dock is what you need when you're shipping product. And that's about what you're getting ready to do, shipping product. So we were talking before the break about how what the two of you do can come together nicely in a sort of a full service solution for those who are running around the very convention center looking for solutions. Yeah, and there's definitely a lot of people showing up with a lot of different products to address just that, the all-encompassing, all-in-one solution. And I think more and more people are realizing how hard of a task that actually is to have an all-encompassing, all-in-one aircraft that's able to fly in multiple environments, whether it's wind, saltwater, heat, potential rain, and the like. And I think what we have here, Ted, is as close as you're going to get to what that solution is, especially in terms of the acquisition component. So if somebody wants to get one of these trends, what do we do? Who do we tell them to go see? Sure, yeah, we have a website. We have it listed there and available for a pre-sale campaign, lightwave.aero, like an aero plane, lightwave.aero. And you'll find the edge, a lightwave edge listed for a $1,000 deposit on a $7,500 airplane. The airplane itself, which is a whole kit, includes the box that it comes in, a nice hard-carrying case with film inserts, as well as the airframe, wings, the tellers, two batteries, charging stations, a controller, actually, a controller with an integrated tablet in it, and you'll have to pilot it. And then on top of that, you customize it with the tailors. There's lots of different tailors that you can do from there. So go and check out the website at lightwave.aero and you can pre-order, pre-order your drone there. Okay, so that's good. And for a measly $7,500, you get the capability that would probably cost $70,000 to $100,000 even four or five years ago. Sure. And how about the software? Yeah, but a lot of work to make it like that. How about the analytics of the software and the pieces that follow from the collection of the data? Sure, yeah, this drone is meant as a starting point for all of that. We do our best to integrate the data that comes down and plug it into the next step of the value chain, meaning our data gets conditioned with the pictures that you get, for example, if you're doing a mapping mission, the pictures get to be located. And you're able to pass that on to your analytics solution after that, whether it be X4D, if you're making a map or other kind of solutions that you might be working with. Obviously something that we're always interested in learning more about and integrating to new analytics solutions. And this is maybe one of the reasons also where we're working with UH and trying to figure out how to do some really awesome projects on that topic. And that's the piece that's gonna go on for a long time and keep developing. That's the whole side of the analytics side of this game. And that's, again, what Chuck represents. So having the two of you guys meeting and talking together is probably gonna generate something that those of us who can just be amazed at what you do are gonna produce something for us in the next six months. Yeah, I have to agree, Ted, I have to agree. And there's no better time than the present. And that's actually something that we're working towards right now. We've got a really well-established, well-educated team of developers on board ready to tackle the issue. Okay, and the issues are interesting. They're not just the issues associated with collecting information and doing something with it. We also have the traffic management issues, the sense and avoid or see and avoid. And we have the issue called counter drone that we all have to think about. So it'd be really interesting to see how those two products you've got here, Chuck on your on the left side and Trent on the hardware side, how they play in that future role. I just, we just challenge people all the time. Take Honolulu, Chuck knows it very well, Trent knows it very well. Imagine two drones over Honolulu today. No big deal, you can find the NOTAM, you can probably figure out who they are. 10 drones over Honolulu. Well, this is getting kinda complicated, especially if you're the power company and you own eight of them and the other two aren't yours. Or we had a reefing, a grounding situation on the reef here a couple of, some time ago. A, the reef was being looked at prior to and after the vessel was removed because you gotta go pay someone to repair the reef. And a drone operator was hired to go do that work. A second drone operator, not hired to do the work, but copying the first one was in there, collecting the same exact imagery with the idea of undercutting the other guy. So business in its often twisted forms is starting to show up. But imagine if we had 500 drones over Honolulu. Exactly how are we gonna manage them in a traffic management sense when some are in delivery, some are collecting information, some are just out for a recreational ride. So thinking that whole complex adaptive system and how that's all gonna be affected by the sensors and the capabilities of the aircraft. In fact, Trent, this is cool because I do believe that I read somewhere that one of the issues we've faced in the unmanned traffic management area is inadequate performance to recover from missed waypoints or from a sudden emergence of a strong wind or a penetration into the flight area by some unknown bogey. So having a lot of cross-range performance and a lot of performance margin, such as what you've got, is maybe gonna be one of the key factors that enables unmanned traffic management in the future.  And we were talking a lot about UTM and unmanned traffic management and ACAS, which is airborne, including an avoidance systems. So there's a lot of things going on, obviously with our vehicles that can fly a long way and we'd like to be able to fly at the on-line of flight. And that's maybe one of the reasons that we got into the marine space as well is because over the ocean you get to do, it's a lot more safe to fly on our way because there's less things to run into. Definitely with the endurance and the range that we can do, we're really interested in how we can make this vehicle fit in the airspace and fit in safely. It's gonna be an interesting problem because we don't have, it's a small vehicle and we don't want to have to add a lot of sensors on top of it to make it play well in the airspace. So I think it's gonna involve a lot of participation in terms of a centralized system that knows where all the aircraft are. But we'll see how that works out. And that's a really interesting situation. We don't think we have that today anywhere near that in the manned aircraft world because we operate by separation and by assignment, which is not necessarily the best way to handle the UAVs. But I like your idea, start over the ocean where the risks are low and the ranges are long and get something to work there when it's kind of a crawl, walk, run approach and then bring it ashore, kind of like man, right? We emerge out of the ocean and slew it ashore at some point in time and then grew legs. And so they're copying in that same exact direction. Definitely, yeah, good model. And so Chuck, but this goes back to you also. The whole world of unmanned traffic management needs desperately needs the analytical component in order to make it function. And all the things Trent's talking about, the setbacks and the holdout zones and all the things that are gonna be required to prevent things from running into each other. Even maybe some synthesis where you don't have sensors. I hadn't really thought about that, but that also leads to modeling and simulation as a way to characterize what's happening from a trend perspective. So Trent, we have trends to worry about. Absolutely, and there's a lot of work going on. Obviously, Trent was on a panel today and I unfortunately wasn't unable to attend that, but there's other center components that could still be useful. For example, there's a group called Planar Monolithics in Maryland who are working on a radar system for collision avoidance. And as you know, radar really doesn't discriminate in terms of its capability. It can see in the dark, it can see in the rain. It only really gets affected primarily by temperature, I believe. Yeah, yeah, well Trent knows more, but we have a ways to go, I think, is what I'm getting at before we're actually there. But I've been really impressed how small the radars have gotten in the last two years. In fact, when we first started this, we were doing a little background research on what we could get our hands on and definitely was thinking this was gonna be along the horizon. What used to be like a five or 10 pound system is now down to 600 grams in some cases. Still not small enough for us, but it's getting really close and honestly there's some vehicles where 600 grams makes a lot of sense, especially for the bigger ones. Once we get our hands on a few, we can start seeing what we've got out here from sensor payload systems that might assist. We have colleagues in the UH and also research areas in the UH that are dealing with very small radars down in the 50 gram domain, such that instead of making them articulated, just put multiple units on there to get the right coverage. So this is all developing in that direction, as you say, and of course the algorithms that read the radar and decide what to do with it are interesting in combining acoustic and radar and visual and thinking of the algorithms that do all that. That's where Chuck comes in again. We have the algorithms which doesn't weigh anything. It weighs as much as the Raspberry Pi perhaps, but keep adding it on. So capability can keep growing as they begin putting the analytic layers on top of the sensor sets. And the future is just like wide open, especially for students, especially for kids who wanna see things move fast from an idea to its inception as opposed to the normal pace of the aerospace industry. I mean you mentioned your self-trend. Three or four years in this game and you've gone from some foam and fabric and taped to a really nifty composite, well-designed system with again, all the free world's aspect ratio locked up and nobody else can get it. And that's a very short time. You could never do that in the full-size aerospace environment. So there's a lot of rapid reward. There's a lot of rapid learning. There's almost a scrum approach towards life in this domain. So and that's where Chuck and his guys come in because the software work is gonna be certainly in that same timeliness of six week type responses to problems. So what a great future is in front of a lot of us and especially for the kids that are coming up in high schools and in colleges. And we will absolutely be encouraging our kids when we get our hands on our first two edges out here in a very short time and put that into the middle of our NASA work and put it into the middle of our environmental work and even probably our public safety and law enforcement work. So we're looking forward to that and can't not also cheer up the side just gonna take care of all the analytics for us. And so with Chuck, we'll depend on you for that. And I'll depend on my team. There you go, your team. And another collaboration, getting all the stuff to work, unless we all collaborate and share ideas, the situation will kind of bog down into proprietary solutions as such. So I think you guys are great at the front edge of that, pushing in the direction for collaborative and shared solutions with open architecture and such. Anyway, we are approaching the very end of our show. Trent, first timer on the show. Thanks so much, Trent Lechazek, the president of the founder and originator and great thinker in the world of really clever solutions to complex problems. Really appreciate what you've done there. And of course, Chuck Devaney, master and entrepreneur of UAV operations and missions and analytics. Thanks very much for joining us from the Las Vegas Convention, the back room at the Las Vegas Convention Center for the Intergrown show for this year. And we'll see you guys again on the show. And once again, thanks very much for being with us today. Really appreciate being on. Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad I was part of it. You bet. Okay, see you guys.