know, after they're reunited and when Uh, mobius finally believes him and believes like, you know, the the real truth of the tba Like when they hug each other and say they're friends. I feel like that was A good payoff for what we saw earlier Obviously a good answer Um, well, I don't worry about like whether or not your answers are any good Because like obviously my take on that is I get frustrated with How easy it was for loki to just connect to mobius when He's got no reason to trust that he's even Like a rational agent of his own rather like at this point We haven't even confirmed whether or not he's just a puppet And then he's of course the guy who forces him to be in a ball kicking simulator for extended periods And after that, they're like, we are good friends and then he gets really sad when he dies I'm barely being able to follow this like I'm almost frustrated that loki isn't More angry or he's not taking different actions.  It's too late Like he puts his head down a little bit and he goes, no, it's not and we can work together We can stop this Then loki like considers then he pulls the knife out and stabs him to me It's like, oh, I could talk for a while about why exactly that that's exactly what I thought would happen um, but do you not think that kind of That summation of loki that he is ultimately a scared little boy. He's not this god that he thinks he is Do you not feel like that's Summised in that avengers moment I think that to say that loki is more of a scared little boy who has trouble like figuring out what exactly he wants from the world is A dramatic oversimplification and that this is a man who's lived for more than a thousand years And he's incredibly intelligent the only thing about him. Do you see what I'm saying? I don't think that's I that's like final point of I don't know if um, I think he's certainly a factor Look, you'd probably consider that him being talked down to and that's yeah, that's that's kind of where I was going with that like, I mean, are we are we accepting the distinction between uh, 2012 loki and loki loki at this point where if we if we accept the change then this follows I don't know if we accept that loki was transformed into a totally different person That's yeah, that's what my answer was gonna be It's consistent with it's consistent with the show that is loki, but not with The place they took it. Yeah, which might be the the key to all of this is that like every decision I watched Him yeah every decision I watch him making everything I see him say I feel so all the way to episode five when she says, you know loki You can you can get out of here and he goes if you go I go I was like so loki wouldn't say that but I guess this new loki might say that But like redemptive arcs in this kind of big or practical fiction They're always kind of messy like, you know, you were saying earlier. He kills 80 people in two days So, um, I don't know if this answers your question quickly, but like yeah, I wouldn't It's not the action. I have a problem in that scene.  There's always an element of like I don't know that loki can ever not be more than an antihero Unless we spend a lot of time Yeah, he has to go on like an iron man level arc where it's he's a protagonist for like three movies And we get to really chip away instead of sitting in a room watching a couple of clips Like that to me insults a character writing as a whole I also think like We've not just this but like any form of media where it's typically like a villain character That's now getting their own spin-off or like now they're the protagonist They always get retconned a little bit like I wouldn't argue that eddie brock in venom Is eddie brock really do you know? I mean, it's like that's on the character.  Well, he's not in nine, but then in hobson shore He's he's an all out hero and like none of it makes any sense Well, I was gonna say I don't know that people consider them Like great stories or anything. I think people mostly just like watch them. Yeah. Yeah They are they are like I think there's an element of so bad. They're good Like the whole continuity is a complete mess.  Well, that's the thing. I think people had fun with Loki I know people had fun with Loki I'm just talking about if you determine ahead of time that you're gonna like it. Yeah, you're gonna like it It's um, I didn't determine ahead of time. I would like it So with what happened with oki would be the same for me as if they did a hulk movie And this is after 2012 avengers and he can't stop being furious now It's like unlocked a monster in him We're just like, oh my god And then it opens with Tony saying you need to go to a spa And then we cut to him. He's at the spa and then he talks to some like old Wise guy and the wise guy is like anger is really just an expression of your own frustrations about yourself You need to introspect. What is it about you that you are unhappy with and then the rest of the film? He's totally chill. He's like, yeah, that was it. That's what I needed I'd be like Jesus Christ really is like one scene and it's completely changed and if someone went well, you know It could happen, right people and Have you never had a moment in your own life where like someone's just said something to you or you've Got in that tiny little detail. It's just made you think about something differently Um, so the counterbalance would be that he's been a rage monster for years and Despite being a scientist surrounded by intelligent people He can't possibly figure out what it is and some old guy giving him one piece of advice Like to me, that's just like that just insults everything that's happened before in terms of how effective it all is In the same way that Loki finding out one of his plans didn't work from people He can't necessarily trust who are trying to manipulate him turns him from what is essentially one of the greatest villains of the mcu into a good guy That's bizarre. Like I feel like It's not it's not it's not a stretch to me that like It could take one conversation with the right person to say the right things to you To make you see life differently. I don't know if you from x to y I can agree. I think that like It's kind of like I'm pretty sure I've heard this before it's the saying that you know You can read like one book or like one sentence that kind of reframes a lot of stuff but as true as that can be It would still be a gradual Transition into a different person that could be the catalyst for change But it won't it won't be like in him because people are just People are stuck in their ways. You know people are creatures of habit It's it's really tough to get somebody to change radically in a very short amount of time to frame that more positively People have their ways for reasons They got there for a reason and so to bring it down in moments should take at least more so than just a line And sometimes it'll be that line. They disagree with it and then the following day they think about it and they're like, hmm That is kind of This line of justification Creates a horrifically low standard for character writing which essentially equates to well, it's logically possible that it could happen Yeah, so it's all fine It's not it's not for me about whether it's possible or not. It's more that that's what I feel like there's been No, but I'm saying like I feel like there's been times in my own life where I just needed that little thing to read just how I saw something I don't think it's like unheard of to fictionalize that I think Hitler maybe the Jews are just people like you and I and we should be nice and that completely changes his outlook on life I think that would be fucking absurd Yeah, so do I I mean in the case of that one like I again, I definitely agree I think it's just a a matter of How radically would I expect somebody to change if they hear the right thing in the right way? It's like I can I can totally accept that Even like one conversation could change a person But not instantly like there would still be a progression that I need to see Well, and I think I think in the case of Loki we need to think about so that conversation may well reframe his perspective on like What are my goals? Like what are my goals? um as like the god of mischief like what am I If if all of this crazy time variance authority is like ultimately in charge of stuff like, hmm I can I can see that changing him But I don't see it turning him into effectively a good guy overnight I think we need a much longer story to get him there agreed and here's a comparison Here's a comparison If you were to watch a season of doctor who where the doctor has to deal with a part of human history in the future rather But his you know, whatever timeline Um where humanities move from earth and they've colonized colonized Let's just say the solar system even the sun we're living on the sun is so neat Um, but it's a kind of a dark time for human history and for some reason like I don't need to justify any of this The point is that it happened Ironic if you're living on the sun slavery's back cannibalism is totally legal and often happening and uh Torture is like a fun thing that everyone's doing This works the most depraved and horrifying event like era of humanity or something the doctor witnesses all of this And then I tell you The doctor has decided that it's time to wipe out life because if humans can't even make it like it's just We're fucked and it's the doctor's going to wipe out all of uh human life so that they can't be suffering anymore They can only be like a neutral Uh sort of element and going forward if the doctor spots any dark time in a species history Similar to that of what he's just witnessed then uh, he's going to destroy That species and that is like that that's ishow run for season 14 And that's what I make it about he's hunting down civilizations and destroying them Well, like I guess you'd need to see it in context I wouldn't love to see that story because that's not what I want to see from dr Who right, but like I don't think it necessarily Old zero weight, you know, like the way you describe it is obviously an abridged version But maybe if you wrote that scene, maybe you could give it the necessary texture to go Oh, wow, I actually I kind of see where he's coming from. Maybe it's not overnight as you say Oh, well, so if I there's definitely something in there, that's kind of where I'm Looking to push you so if I made it literally like an overnight thing I'm wondering what I would have to do to make you finally go. No, it has to be longer than that I think I think something like that way you're dealing with like grand Stakes. Yeah, maybe overnight is a little strange. I think what I was more thinking of was just like Maybe small interpersonal conversations You've had with people close to you or like, do you mean like maybe even people you didn't get on with and it's like I think I think There's so many rooms for so many So many conversations you have in your life that could just completely alter how you had an opinion of something And I do think like, you know, it takes like One sentence to do that in certain scenarios I am I think you're right And I think part of that is informed by what happens with Tony in civil war Is the right things are said to him are the right people the right times with ideas He's already having and but the thing is like I can reference you all the events of the MCU for why you made this decision with Loki I'm like, uh, I can reference you all the times.  So he hasn't done them yet And then I'm faced with what made him make this decision. It's like seeing his plans fail And it's like if anything that would probably make him double down So I'm this is really I've got so little to justify this change I think that's what I because I imagine a better Loki in terms of what we're talking strictly about his character I think I want season one of him to be like a hyper villain. He's like doubling down seriously really Fighting against like the team. Well, I don't like the tba. I think they're bad guys But like fighting against whatever and then slowly he starts to accept that there is a lot that is beyond this control and we starts to narrow down his like You know goals in terms of what what he's trying to go for and then we start taking him on the journey Where it's like, hmm, maybe the things I was pursuing like why why did I do those things? Like why did I actually do those things in relation to that? Who would have made a great season one villain the worst Loki like there's a timeline Loki That's just the worst and it makes our Loki look at him be like Jesus Christ.  Especially now that he's in a position where he's got way more power and control and that the timeline is is malleable and this is the thing we want to change way more than this but If we're strictly focusing how to turn him from x to y I don't think you can do it in one episode let alone one scene Do you really feel like he's good from episode two? Do you feel like he's redeemed from episode two?  He's like a good guy He's still he still lies and manipulates Later points in the series like when he reunites with mobius He tries to like play off that he doesn't care about still v and like he doesn't care about mobius even and he like You know, that's not a bad thing to do. Yeah, especially in interrogation He's still he's still got that duplicitous manipulative side to him. I don't think he's like completely stamped out White lie is nothing compared to that. It holds basically I would also Like I wish I could agree But like I almost hate that he's so ineffective at lying in that scene and mobius is just looking at him and laughing Then like I know you're lying and it's like literally it's I think that's the progression he's taken like as he's discovered more himself He's become a worse liar is the way I see that He's been doing it for like a thousand years How does that follow? Well, I mean, I guess he's Literally a thousand years old but in the context of us watching it as viewers It's you know, we've only been following our context is he's a thousand years old that doesn't change Does what I mean? This is this is part of what makes it hard for me to believe he's so incompetent Because like he's been doing this for so long but like Do you think the a thousand year thing works for any as guardian character in the whole mcu because like honestly I think it's kind of flimsy like they don't mention it a lot and then they mention a little bit in dark world Like, you know a human life's a heartbeat and then they don't really mention it again and then like, you know, like in infinity war They need to adhere to it I think it helps them in many in many times So for example, I believe Thor when he's always invested in trying to save Loki because they grew up together for possibly hundreds of years I can believe Thor when every other Avenger is like fuck Loki and Thor's like no, no, no Like we can only but the only time I believe like I agree with you on those things But like they could be the age that they're playing right? They could be like in their 30s based on that information whereas like uh, the Theoretically true. Yeah, but of course like they're from a I think it helps the believability of the world building as well That they're not the same age as like Iron Man. It's like damn that was cum incidental and that they're like the only You know and it helps the so what the way they want us to believe it in the mcu Is that Norse mythology is actually built from these real aliens from a different planet that I guess visited humanity at some point That they are ancient and powerful and they've been around for a long time to help justify that Like it would be I think a little harder to be like they've not been around for very long But they also have all of this history Um, it's not impossible All I'm saying is these Giving them this long history is helpful in many ways and so breaking it you don't need to break it Why would you break it? Why not adhere to the fact that Loki is talented? The Loki is a good liar and that Mobius wouldn't be able to outfox him I'd say that the I just would say I I think the only time I really do believe That Thor is a thousand years old is in that one scene in infinity war where he talks to rocket We're actually like feel it emotionally rather than just something that is stated. Do you know what I mean? Like when he talks about the amount of people he's killed and The weight at which you know Thanos has bested him and killed his brother like I believe that guy's carrying a thousand years of war Um, but like I think generally in the MCU. I don't think they really strike that tone with Thor very much I think I vaguely felt it from how he speaks I think I kind of get what you mean though in the sense that it can sometimes be hard to move past Just how old they are and so consequently just how little time relative To how old they are they've spent doing avengers stuff and being part of this world I get I think I get what you mean, but at the same time. I also Do get the sense that they have been around for a really long time in universe that makes more sense to me um, like they literally have It's part of how I accept Thor as uh, certainly in avengers and an age of ultron He's like the very big difference between him and a lot of them is that he's a god That's ancient that has power while they're human beings that have Variables And like I've always felt that he did speak that way the dialogue they create for him Yeah, and I definitely like in the way he speaks but I mean like They go through changes the Asgardian characters at the same pace and period of time as the human characters No, yeah, I agree and I think the ones that Thor goes through are much more informed than Loki's like, you know between minutes Would you argue this is a very like vitriolic time For these characters so they could have Like a lot of stuff is going on. No, no, not vitriolic. Sorry. Volatile. It's a very volatile era for these characters I got those words confused because they both begin with V. Um, no, it was a it's an era where like Lots of people are dying lots of stuff is lots of like events are happening in their world And it's the kind of period that would change a person Yeah, it's like it's it's really contrived when you think about it that they've had these Thousand-year lives and in the space of a couple of years like Asgard gets destroyed Mummy and daddy get killed like they find out they have a like a secret sister Loki gets killed like Thor's hammer gets destroyed like, you know, like I'm okay with that But like if I really think about it, it's weird That like this is all happening to them now like they were they were Thor and Loki as we know them to be for the first a thousand years of their life No, no, no, no as not in the exact same way, but it's in um I mean they probably did have stuff going on before that But I don't think it's it's totally contrived because a lot of stuff that stuff happened because of other I was gonna say a lot of those events circle around the infinity wall Like um, the infinity wall covers a lot of that stuff like the aether stone and everything but uh, similarly I would argue that there's probably lots of dramatic events that have taken place across Asgard's history that we're not aware of Yeah, yeah, like when you think about how dramatic I don't know that file Family they lose Things to give you an example I think that it could be an interesting film to watch odin and his daughter rampage through all of the realms and control them For him to then banish her when she gets to the point where she's too powerful. That'll be a really interesting film Yeah, that'd be cool. I'd be I'd be interested in watching that and this And that's the thing uh, it remember hella hella says the odin is like whitewashed history And so there's so much that's probably happened that's like bloodshed drama and insanity that we just don't aware of Of course if you read Norse mythology, you would you might have some idea of what it could be Um, did like look you fuck a horse. Yeah, wouldn't you? Oh look, he is the horse. Oh, right. Yeah in there odin fucked a horse Yeah, okay gets impregnated as a horse Oh, um, I think his birth as you do That's one does we've all had those days Uh, but yeah, like did you not find a distracting when he says different lines like this? Or do you just see it as uh, Loki is a good person He believes in the sanctity of life sort of thing He will do what he can to help people where he can and now he's doing a sort of a fight for good to a degree Like you just believe that sort of wholeheartedly But I don't see is like He's good as you were saying earlier. Do you know what I mean? Like I think he's like He flipped flops between the two even before this, you know Like he's saved Jane Foster in dark world and um, you know, he's consistently been part of Excuse me and part of like Thor's efforts to sort of like save the galaxy, you know, that's all thing and like as much as he is still There's there's this part to him that's still evil right up to infinity war. I still think The whole point of this character is that he flipped flops Again to get away from good or evil calling him a good person or an evil person that his value That's why I said sanctity of life Like he clearly now thinks that lives are important. You don't just throw them away That is clearly incongruent with 2012 Loki who will literally just execute people casually. So Do you believe the change? I don't know if he Always like had no respect for life um Like I think, you know, again, let's get a little boy thing in Avengers he's This teenager Kicking his is, you know, chucking his toys out the pram He's gone into different ages now, but you get my point like he's He's saying things to get a rise out of Thor and he's trying to be provocative And he's trying to prove himself and he's picked earth To be the vessel to do that. Um, but I don't think that necessarily means that he always means the things he says You know, like no matter what Rumi's in he is trying to get something out of the other person He will say I agree with you. Um, and I think that would be totally in line with Loki But um, we see him alone crying at the screen. We see him It's his reaction to seeing people run around and screaming. There's like these people are going to die There's nothing. There's no manipulation happening there. He just that's his that's his feeling on the situation Yeah, but like but like he's always he's always cared about his mother I know obviously that's his mother, but like he's cared about Thor. I really like that Well, remember so he has a huge leap.  He was invading Earth with an army of people and he killed a bunch of folks And like listening to people scream makes him smile But I don't just to say well, he cares about his mom. Well, so did Al Capone Yeah, but I'm not saying those are two completely different things like people aren't one thing and he of course Of course, so that's why I asked you Do you believe that those two things are incongruent or do you just believe that they effectively explained that change? I think in terms of the The character a to b I do think they explained that change like what's the whole six episodes maybe not from episode 2 the change I'm referring to happens at the end of episode 3, right? um Wait, so to go from I will execute 80 people casually because I am taking over this world anyway And then I will slaughter new york city with my army of jitari versus Oh, no These people they're not going to make it. They're going to die. They're being left behind But like I think when you think about The journey he's gone on he hasn't No, I would argue that not much so just a refresher for anybody who's wondering in chat, right? So he goes the the he sees the tapes then he agrees to help mobius. He does some research on apocalypses um Then Well, that's that's they go to the supermarket place They're probably Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so well, they would have to show us what it would mean for him to have changed They wouldn't just leave that out, right? Or are you saying like there are deleted scenes where he goes through like a significant character developments? To me the way I see it is he He is humbled by the avengers He's humbled by the Hulk He sees An opportunity to escape. He's immediately again captured He's then shown like, you know, like obviously we could we could debate does he trust what he's being shown? Is it real just like for the sake of where I'm going with this? He believes this right? He believes this he's given he's given a canon future Where the way the person that he is as of today only leads him to ruin And then from there, I think he finds a genuine friend in Mobius I think he finds a genuine friend in sylvie and I think he is given more reason After seeing how this is how my life is going to go.  Like I think that would at least give you the impetus to sort of view the world differently or maybe like consider Feelings and thoughts you'd maybe shut off before or hadn't even experienced before like for example Loki giving a shit about all these random people that you know in another movie. He would have been like they don't matter They're beneath me Um, I think it's kind of nice that he well that was like cares about them going. Um, yeah I I think that's that's all assuming facts not an evidence and it's just claiming that things presented are just true Feels a little bit arbitrary how they happen. Yeah, but like but like Anakin turns into dar fader in a couple of days I mean like that's not a bad thing. It's not a good argument for you I think they rush out of kid as well. Um, yeah, so Uh, where i'm going with that, right? So like when he lost in Thor He he lost his position as custodian of asgard until odin was going to be back He lost like uh, any sense that the people there that believed that he defended odin and that he defeated the frost giants It was all a ruse Thor gets the position that he wanted and he's tossed into like the abyss If you then said you see this humbled him and now he's gonna really rethink his position in life Or it's gonna actually make him really furious Because um, he's lost everything He was subverted by the very guy that he thinks has always lorded over him in his life And then he's given an opportunity by Thanos with more power to take over earth or whatever I'd be like, oh, there's an obvious one out of those two that he's gonna do and then at the end of avengers He loses again And you're like now it's gonna be an introspection stuff I was like, well, I don't see why you wouldn't be even more furious again And then he's like mess meets the tva. It's like this is the chance to never lose to the avengers Like I will control space and time if we're accepting all the bullshit with the tva and that he believes everything about them I think it's way more in character for Loki to be like i'm going to take over this place Oh, yeah, it's like we've seen that movie like several times That's a meta argument No, but like no, but like you need to When you when you're when you're sitting down with this character like you need to think like what have we not seen from them before What would be interesting? There's more than one way to be cunning and uh subversive especially when you're dealing with a whole new faction, right? Like if I said to you, why the fuck did they make Loki a villain in 2012 Avengers when he was a villain in Thor that we've done this before Well I know I see that but like I just for me personally I feel like villain Loki I've seen as much as I want to see out of that and I feel like infinity war took it to that logical conclusion but Hero time traveling Loki Yeah, I could do a little bit of that and so I enjoyed the series. I like do you mean like it's I get a novelty for sure, but it's it's the issue of you've chosen 2012 Loki. He's our guy Who we're going to be following That kind of locks you in Even more so than usual because he's canon bad guy The best way to achieve that and I still think this would be cheap, but then just like oh, there's a thousand year time skip Um after Loki gets captured by the tva and he's been working for the perages and you you say all of that development happened off screen We promise all mad or I still wouldn't like that, but I think it would be better. I think that's better. That is better But it's that's actually better. Yeah Because essentially at that point we're getting introduced We're getting introduced to what is in effect a new character at that point. We have to relearn who he is I don't I don't hate the idea of doing tight of doing massive time skips to either Well, I would say a thousand years of events have happened not yesterday He was evil and now he's pretty because essentially at that point you are being introduced to a different character I'm appealing to like a preference here But I would way rather go with the the free one of like the first season is us breaking him down Like that is the focus. Yeah, I would love to see I would love to see villain Loki being broken down I want to see I want to see scheming Loki who like has his own like Like has his own goals that don't even become clear Um until like he either achieves them or fails to achieve them And it's doing all kinds of deception to to achieve them. I want to see that I want to see deceptive Uh in it for himself Yeah And I know it sounds contrived But the point of this is that I would spend a lot longer to make it not contrived But I want situations like he's gonna destroy some building and there's clearly a kid in there And he sees that and he's like he can let the kid out It's like a locked door and then he just sort of looks the console whatever and he does flick it the door opens They get out and he doesn't really think too much about it But it's just enough that us we're like he's clearly doing more than he needs to So there's clearly something going on He's clearly having thoughts about stuff and you just do sprinkle that throughout You could even do it.   He's also getting something out of it Yeah, he's getting Becomes that kind of notification of like self selfishness that is used towards a good goal Yeah, so it's like he's getting something out of it. It's congruent with what we already know his character. It's so it's like He's going look at me. Look at me and part of look at cool and good. I am, you know Part of what I think set him on is big a lock in ragnarok was that he achieved the throne of asgard for a significant time And it wasn't everything that he wanted and so I probably have that happen in the tv a to some degree He does have some form of victory, but he's like a he's like a now what character because him being king Yeah, it was only ever a goal. It was never actually what he wanted Maybe that's the point where we start delving into loki being. Hmm. I did like hanging out with thor Hmm, maybe I need to develop relationships with people. Huh morbius. He's Yeah, it's like I'm learning to like help me out on this little adventure. You know, I've learned about being good And like it's okay, but I just feel like we could do better than this. Yeah To just piggyback on that mobius thing Imagine he like goes on a two episode like thing with him and then by the end like he under this thing Is like I need you because of blah blah blah and then by the end of the episode It's pretty clear that that thing wasn't actually needed. You didn't need him for that thing Mobius to come along. Yeah, and it's never admitted to he's just like no Mobius picks up on it. He's like, hmm. You know Yeah, it's like you could have done this yourself and he's like no, I couldn't Oh now I'm getting sad Well, let's think a million different things that were better that they could have done and didn't I would want to sprinkle all these character moments in instead of slap bang He watches the movie and now I'm supposed to believe this is not I can't expect him to act as though he does in avenger 2012 I have to now expect a completely different skill value set not to mention skill set. He's very incompetent of fighting I feel like all we've done right now is I want him to be cleverer than that Yeah, do you want me to comment on this? Just to finish that off the compensation I'm assuming you would like when he was tossed out the train by two random guards when he's still capable of doing all kinds of Magics just like that shit frustrates me Anyway, yeah comment on whatever you want I suppose so but like It's no different to like in avengers for me It always bothers me that like Tony Stark just flies up And Loki's like you can see him.  Is he just like comes up He says he says they're in front of him. He makes a quip about like his name is phil and then he shoots him And like I just think that's the it's a similar kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? Like I can understand So punks there I would um I would then we like I probably want to get into the nitty gritty of like how it's filming the way it's done So he thinks Tony's dead. He flies back up after he was hit by his own Machine shooting past him.  But then I am man's quicker like to me that all It's right within the realm of possibility all of that like I wouldn't complain at all and you know, Loki's barely hurt by Iron Man's blasts I still feel like That was an elegant way to put it but like you look at You know, I just described now. I don't like either way is invalid. Do you mean like I think you could easily go Oh, you know, he was probably more valid than the other what I'm suggesting is It's within the realm of reason all of that meanwhile him walking up to people who've just come out of a portal with glowsticks talking about There's a variant I'd be like so go invisible immediately like there's you have no idea what's happening These people have power you've never seen before Meanwhile, he knows Tony Stark really well at this point part of the point in 2012 Avengers was to tear the Avengers apart He's not intimidated by them at all. He thinks he's gonna beat them Like I think that informs it as well In the moment of the scene that he could react you could argue Do you know, I mean like just as easily as you could argue that he could have reacted better on the train Well, so yeah, the train were just dudes. Those were just dudes To clarify, right? So they're aliens aren't they what I feel like I think they're just dudes with sticks like there's no there's nothing special about them What do they have to be humanoid like I don't what I'm saying is I don't believe they have any Special strength things and even that would actually be relevant if you can just give me one sec So with with Avengers 2012 what you're arguing is he wasn't at 100% effectiveness and I would be like you're correct But I don't know that any character should be operating at 100 effectiveness. Meanwhile on the train I'm practically arguing. He's operating at like one or zero percent. He didn't even use a clone He's also Drunk and like he's not very phased by them. Is he like there's one moment where like they attack him He's like, I'll stop it. Do you know what I mean? So like I don't think he's It's not like he's giving it is all in this fight. Is it so that I would accept as a variable Then the other problem comes in of I still think that even when drunk he would use His magic to his advantage, especially in fighting I think it would be actually a great opportunity to have his holograms sort of falling over or being like Like hiccups Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, but also I think they forgot who Loki is like So he's a he's a nice guardian Creature meaning that like so he can take punches from Thor. He can he can lock weaponry with Thor He can grab humans by the neck and lift them all the way up and toss them Like this is a man who's pretty damn strong. Yeah But he can be picked up and tossed by these like random guards and to the point where he's like And it's just like I totally see where coming from with like the earlier examples In episode two like the the humans that sylvie possesses I was like, I don't really understand why they're able to beat Loki up But the aliens in In episode three, even though they're humanoid. I kind of assumed a bit like in Guardians of the galaxy There's lots of different races that kind of have like different levels of strength You know, like spot I would admit the only way out you have is if they have super strength But I don't think they do when they fight them later Um on lamentus and the uh when everything's falling apart they fight them again And they're just they're very casual like there's no There's no uh efforts for super strength. I think what they they did when they were filming They were like wouldn't it be really funny if he was surprised grabbed and tossed out the window and then that crushed the uh The tempad meaning they have to do this other thing on the plot line now and sylvie can be like god You keep ruining everything. It's like a fun back and forth, but i'm just sitting there like Man, this is the god of mischief Yeah, he is insanely depowered so that a plot that they want to happen can happen and that's really depressing to watch It's a huge erosion of stakes in what we understand about power levels for these characters If we were to shift it to the drunk and singing stuff, I think that's out of character too I don't believe for a second that loki on a distant planet with little help to be able to get back with the tempad With someone he doesn't trust whatsoever who's tried to kill him would get drunk Escape destruction. Yeah, and I secondly don't believe that he would entertain a crowd That's just not something loki does He would see all these people as being far beneath him that he shouldn't even pay attention to Well fair enough to think that way.  So I could believe That he could get drunk and still think arrogance isn't he's gonna take anyone on an excuse for anything Really? Well, like he's arrogant character Then an arrogant character can do anything at any time and you can use arrogance as an excuse No, just in situations where like I feel like it would be relevant Like this one? In no way, in no way would an arrogant character who has that as one of their core traits do what he's doing here I'm trying to like genuinely trying to spot the through line where he is like Man sylvie's asleep I'm just gonna have some I'm gonna have some alcohol On this apocalypse planet with a person I don't trust in a place where I could die Like that's just you know, I'm that confident about the situation. I just like that doesn't seem like low key to me at all Yeah, maybe drax Yeah, drax is much more Epicurian, I guess we could say in like a certain aspects another character I wouldn't expect would be like dr. Strange. I would never expect him to just start drinking because he's so confident I'd be like that seems weird. No, but I don't think like I'm not I think that's an oversimplification. Like I'm not just saying like any arrogant character would do exactly that thing I just feel like low key would do that in that moment But like, you know, again, you guys don't agree. Like that's just how I see it We don't seem to see any evidence for that claim that's being made based on his prior behavior But like, you know, like We're just gonna go back and forth thing here. Aren't we like you know, I mean like That's just how I see it. Um This I guess that comes back to the same thing the doctor who comparison like I would probably say that I I feel like I'd be able to argue that forever And I don't know if you you just think that is the way it goes like Um, if for example, we start up a movie with peter parker in no way home And he just starts machine gunning down people And you're just like, whoa, this is complete character assassination and I'm like, well, I mean, um, he could be like I don't know really angry like he's just fucking done with people He knows that his identity his identity having been revealed Means that these people could very likely use that against him.  He's angry Um And yeah, he you know people make mistakes Yeah, I want to see the movie where peter parker shoots up school like If disney were to make that I wasn't expecting you to say that I wasn't expecting to say I was being sarcastic You think that would be that would be a strange film But do you get what I mean though? Like we're trying to find more of a Baseline than simply saying Well emotionally they figured this was the thing to do Because I you just said like you're coming from I just know you're coming from but I just I think for me like all movies and tv Have you like I think it's fun to pick apart like holes in things and talk about like the logical fallacies and logical consistencies I think all that stuff's fun. But like All me what comes down to at the end of the day is like how it connected to me You know how I was able to empathize with what I was seeing on screen and and if it made me feel anything Um, it's not that I don't think those other things are important or that I don't enjoy talking about them um But I guess it's just like when it comes to something like this. It's like You know, I'm just gonna be a broken record because these things are compatible like you can you can Like it's it's The idea that Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like you can You can separate enjoyment from what you think is is consistent or inconsistent. I guess I Record on that as well Well, I think I think um to to clarify because a lot of what I find value in talking about this stuff Is that it can help me identify and explain why I like the things that I really like So for instance when I think about like, uh, hot fuzz or something um I can I can identify stuff within the material that is supported by other stuff in the material to explain why I think that it so effectively does what it does And so that's like the value that I can get from it because of course how I felt like that's Sometimes that can be completely independent from like the well or largely independent from the you know The media itself and what's in it based on like Something that you personally appeals to you or maybe like a relationship you had with somebody that reminds you of Or like something in the story reminds you of that or like a topic that you find interesting and that fool you It could trick you and it could play you Well, I mean in In the case of this it's more like the idea of It can just be that there is a story that has ideas and stuff in it that just appeals to you personally And so it becomes a lot easier to um to sort of buy into that story Um But but it's sort of you know, they both kind of feed into each other and they sometimes kind of don't Because like what's in the story and how much sense it makes can't explain how much you enjoy it or don't enjoy it And then you can still have your own feelings that sort of develop almost differently from from that stuff if you get what I mean. Yeah I don't think any of you are like necessarily wrong per se it's just like The stuff that you want probably different priorities, maybe like different In terms of what you were going into to sort of get out of it Also, like these, you know, oh, these things are We watch these things because we want to get enjoyment out of them And yeah, this is how I derive enjoyment out of it And like that's how you guys get your enjoyment out of it and like, you know, I think that's fair enough Yeah, yeah, that's that's cool Like it's not because of course like the the goal has never been to uh to get you to not like the show anymore Because that's like because of obviously whether or not people enjoy something that's that's like totally subjective Well, yeah, it almost seems like a um Just just a thing you want to be put out there if ever because for example Do you ever think you'd find yourself saying this action from the character was out of character? But I enjoyed it and if the answer is uh No, it probably shouldn't be right It should be the it makes sense that there's going to be times where There's plenty of things that we think don't quite match and the the reason we like it So for example, I think it could have been easy for someone to have said I think the 60s aesthetic matches perfectly because it's a representative time of like a more an intrusion of bureaucracy As well as like an inefficiency with technology that matches the way that they operate And I could see you saying like hey, yeah, I kind of yeah I kind of see that and then um that might fill the slot for you of why you like it so much as well As the way it looks but I think and this is not some kind of like character criticism I think you like it because of the way that it looks not for much of anything else And again, that's fine I like lots of things for the way that it looks for the way that it is Perceived but the thing is we can sometimes again not saying you're doing it But uh, we can attach a reason and then we will not let go of that reason because that is the foundation for why we believe we like it Rather than maybe it was really just a simple and surface level as you thought it was fun And that's I have no problem with I'd be happy. I'd be happy to say that I just liked the tv aesthetically Um, yeah, I think yeah, I'm gonna ultimately like in terms of that part of all the other things we've discussed It's ultimately like it's quite a small part of the series, isn't it? um um but No, but in terms of the aesthetic like do you mean there's this there's a lot of things going on I would say yes and no, uh Yes broadly, but like in the sense that um, it can impede their ability to do x y and z Because they aesthetically have to have the technology of the 60s like to me. I'm just like Like I would have preferred if everything was like I said to to bring it home We have it with uh, do you know like you can buy microwaves that are like the 50s microwaves, but the technology of today They look like they're from the 50s. There's a lot of like stylists Retro futuristic stylization That's just housing and they could have done that and you could literally have Kang be like Yeah, I I mean I like the 50s. I think they really fucking need or 60s I feel like there is an element that's like though because like they still open up like portals and they travel across some space And they can like put you in prisons where you're just repeating the same scene over and over again Like Jimmy like they clearly like display power Do you mean like I think I think the aesthetic is kind of like papering over like the incongruence for me is drawn from that If it would literally what it is and that was it and I'd be like, I guess that kind of that's just the way they are But then it's like also they can travel through time Like wait So they have access to a future where Because like Tony Stark's already got tech above this and they can go way further than that and they have infinite resources So now I'm very curious why what's stopping you from having the technology you need rather than technology that looks neat Especially considering the foundation of the organization and what yeah, they try to stop reality from tearing apart, you know, yeah So like are they stupid or um And so the reason I should have the best of the best based on because they go to pretty Theoretically they go to everywhere in the universe Doing this stuff for all time and space anything they want infinitely because these universes Break off and you can take anything from them and then prove them. So Yeah, so there's no there's no excuse it makes them look incredibly incompetent Which means that I can't believe the things that the show says that they can just do and asserts that they do because like I said if I if I put tea in my mug instead of Rockstar and that breaks the sacred timeline and the tv shows up wanting to melt me I'll just shoot them with my gun and so the tv is all of a sudden. They're not so deadly anymore Well, then you get the tempad rags and then You're unstoppable because you're like, how do they stop with doctor strange? How do they stop iron man? What I mean all of the versions of you know, I don't know Did they get eaten by the cloud monster? And that's like I'm happy like even though we don't see those answers I'm happy when they say like, oh, you know, we've taken down like vampires and that kind of thing Like I've seen enough of their power to believe that I don't because I've seen their power. Yeah. No Well, so the problem I guess would be that we're shown They went after Loki would be one of the people I'd be like, how would they take out Loki? And if you go, well, you know, I can believe they have the technology They might be able to find a way and then in your head you envision them Portal behind him when he's busy with something and then they immediately zap him or they hit him with a rifle shot from a distance Yeah, they invent something special because they know that Loki is special Well, they use the reality stones that they have Or they just show up in front of him and hit him with a stick And that's where I was going with that is that the the point I was trying to make was that with uh, how we see them take out Loki I no longer believe that they actually do anything special for anybody They just appear and hope and for some reason that has worked 99.9999% of the time except with silvi Like what they want to do is like if you have a faction that's powerful Essentially what you want their interventions with reality to be Is just the thing they don't need they'd barely even need to send anything anyone or anything It's just they snap the fingers and the thing they wanted to happen happened in the universe because some operative somewhere was using all of the infinity stones combined into you know The all powerful objects and can do anything Because that's that's the level of power that they have like a big onion Yeah, yeah, yeah, so they make a big onion appear because that's what happens in the sacred timeline And they do they can just do that they can just manipulate reality because that's the level of power that they've gotten They have no reason not to make that choice rather they're expending resources and risking Things going wrong by sending like stuff, which you know to them.  Um, I'm forgetting which word is which omnipotent not omniscient Um, they should be both though Would you would you argue they're close to omnipotent though? They're not quite omnipotent right because they still have limitations. Yeah, they should they should be like maximally powerful They can do basically anything they need to in the physical realm of the universe They can make anything they want to happen pretty much Well, can they can definitely can equal to what the stones can do pretty much um But they can't um They don't they don't know literally everything Um, they don't they have yeah, it's like they they don't know everything But they have the pathway to know everything that they need to know pretty much So if anyone's going to take them down it's going to be Loki who can deceive them Yeah, which would be cool by the way if when he first met them he outsmarted them and they had to do something else Yeah, and because of their power They just eventually or like the time that they finally get him It's like the 412th attempt like finally after learning Like he's so they're all like they're tired and they've just had so much of this shit And they're just so finally happy and they seem grizzled and beat up and bruised and how about um They erase his timeline down to like it's all the parts of it are flowing away except for the island he's standing on Then they have a little uh portal open So that's his only escape. He jumps through right into a trap that they've got set in the tva It's like the they force him they have reduced him to an impossibility It's no way he can do this without getting captured um like I What I want what I want the first attempt of them to catch him to be like um Is he like he just gets scooped out of time But then like the version of him that we get see gets scooped out of time just sort of goes Congratulations, you've got my decoy. I don't know who you are, but I know you're trying to get me now That kind of thing, you know that That's a bit over but you know, that's not all you mean um the dialogue to deliver And that's the thing throughout the show. He keeps getting some like the one that um Matt referenced is in the supermarket.  He has his god powers and his magic powers It's just a guy literally just a guy What are they doing Toss them around picking him up by his back and throwing him through like a pile of cans or whatever and he's like Is it a decoy or something? No, that's that's Loki No idea it was really frustrating to watch Because the people who wrote this are shit at their job and they just want things to happen What do you think um because i'm trying to I don't want to block you out of conversation matt What do you think about the fact that silvi used detonation grenades the prune timelines to create timelines That was at the end of episode two right because you crushed me on what That was when they were all set up when they're in the supermarket. Yeah, her grand plan was to Send back through time with the tempads all different Detonate like grenades the prune timelines to different places to then generate so many timelines that the tv is so busy Dealing with that that she can get to the time lizards Oh, I see.  Like I think the one Weakness they have more than anything else is like They're manpower and they're in competency between each other. So I think like if you were to divide and conquer I don't think that's a terrible plan. Uh, so first first of all what what I meant to highlight there was that she used Timeline pruning grenades to create timelines That doesn't work that like in the sense that She's I don't necessarily disagree with you, but like is it the The grenade is dropping into this place where it shouldn't have been and it destroying like an area of that timeline Is what is corrupting that timeline making it different So from what I understood all the grenades do All the grenades do is reset whatever they've been dropped into back to the sacred timeline So if you were to drop 17 billion of them everywhere, it wouldn't change a thing in terms of maintaining the sacred timeline But you you drop them on things that are Splinters. Yeah, is that correct?  I don't think it's clear.  Do you see what I'm saying? Because it's like They physically take things away from the world, don't they? They actually like destroy it So if you if we treated the sacred timeline like a piece of string and you drop a grenade on That instead of the branch that just cuts the branch and goes back to sacred It wouldn't it just cut a chunk out of the main stream and it's string itself Yeah, and then I guess with the with the strands that you've cut apart start to unravel Oh, no, I was almost saying wouldn't logically we expect something more catastrophic Like it starts to wipe out the sacred timeline if anything Maybe maybe I don't think you're necessarily wrong. Like I think it's it's a confusing plot beat Yeah I don't think we've necessarily got like Enough information either way But yeah, I definitely agree like it could be explained better You know like how the grenades work For example Yeah, well, I think lots of things could have been given more time. They rush a lot in this. Um and Yeah, uh The obviously what I was trying to bring up with with the the aesthetic and the tools and stuff is like eventually you might Conclude for yourself Like it wasn't how any of it worked at all It was just I really liked the look of it and in the same way with that scene with Loki like drinking and cheering up everybody and stuff I wonder if um As far as you're concerned It is the fact that you believe Loki would do this and you enjoy it Or is it that it's an event that you just enjoy in general and thus you will defend it as something Loki would do Like I think I believe that this Loki variant would do those things Um across this season I suppose I can give you that like that's the thing I I'm constantly comparing him to who I believe Loki is Not who I believe they try to switch him to in episode one Um, you think you'd enjoy the show more if like let's say like roughly the bones of this idea of the show Was an original series without if it were a previous Loki if we did the season one idea We were talking about earlier and then season two Is he's finally revealed by Mobius after they get to be actual like close friends He's like what was my what was my future and Mobius keeps it away from him Because he doesn't want him to know how he dies and then he shows him And then he's like and he's already started to change because he's seen the super evil Loki And he sees You know all the worst results of all of his worst actions And at this point you fully believe so that he knows how the tv a works He knows that this footage is real and he knows that Mobius isn't doing this to lie to him because he asked for the footage And Mobius was like I don't really want to show you and he's like please If it was all in that context and then Mobius is like I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go I'll leave you alone with this like I'll come back to you and we just know that Loki washed everything that happened And then you get a really important scene between him and Mobius for example talking about what does that mean All the actions you would have taken and where it led you and what does that make you You know and just and then the season two I probably would try and change to be The significant season from changing him from x to y And if we had that ending for season ones uh season one finale being He sees the worst version of himself Season two. He sees what he would have become. I feel like we're in a really good position to start changing him do you Do you like want to do your own writing like is that because I see like you know I mean obviously like you've got like these ideas of how you would want it to go like is that I am That's an interesting mind. I don't know more load probably I'm For now I'm way more interested in breaking stories down to figure out what I think Works and doesn't work before I make my own, but I am absolutely not averse to making my own story someday And that's the thing I wouldn't I wouldn't want to make a Loki fanfic. I'd want to make my own thing Yeah, yeah, yeah But I think that's the that's the thing like you don't really want to make Fanfic of anything even if it's like sanctioned by disney do I mean like I don't know maybe I mean it's a bit if someone if disney came to me and said wow rags.  Here's a check just write any number you want on it Go and make a show. It's great. These people will fucking clap at anything I would if I would just be like over the moon I would be over the moon I I'd be like man think of all the stuff that I could do I could make a meme for myself I could actually make some good star wars content I could tell the stories that a lot of people might want to tell that I want to tell and I think I could do them well But disney's probably not gonna do that Probably I mean by me more in the sense of like it's the trust between that and Just making Original storytelling with your own cool sci-fi premises that don't like exist on these like 50 year 70 year franchises I think it would be all the better for it because I don't think we'd be sat here going Oh, this isn't consistent with this or this isn't consistent with that like we'd just be talking about like This thing in its own right I might want to use other people's shit as practice for my own stuff But you can just make your own stuff from the start like building from the ground up means that you have full control Over these parameters rather than having to make your story fit into the parameters of the story How the process works and how the technology and the legalities and the the actual film production stuff is Because I would want to get experience and practice before I say all right now It's time to make my thing now that I know how to craft I'm the other way around a practice story. Um, you know, I'm kind of the other way around The first story doesn't have to be the thing that you're most invested in making you could You could even go you could even get someone else to fit one of their ideas and make that uh, that's what I'm saying But isn't it doesn't have to be tied to establish to an established franchise for it to be a practice Yeah, it doesn't have to be so wait, can I clarify? What was the question? I have no idea It was do you say would you you say we've seen like why aren't you is the question like Why wouldn't you be focusing on writing your own stuff instead of talking about how other stories could be better? Was that some of the question? No, no, no, no, I'm just I'm just interested in the way that you're like Oh, this could it could go from here to here to here to here like you're obviously like thinking about it in terms of Like a structured story in its own right and I'm just wondering I guess if like Is that something you're interested in like it was it was more of a question, I guess Yeah, no, no, no problem. I just wanted to make sure I was answering it, right? Yeah, yeah, uh Yeah, no, I I I have a lot because this is the thing we do it here and there in small ways on eFat We like the makeup stories tell stories jokes will often involve stories The scripts we make for criticism videos will often have narrative elements in terms of you set things up and then pay them off joke-wise or you have The way you're delivering the script you get progressively angrier Because you built the blocks in a head to justify why you might feel that way There's lots of elements that have crossover is kind of what I'm getting at. Um, I would be interested in Telling stories at some point, but I still feel like I'm really interested in figuring out For example, Loki comes out loads. People love it. I hate it why This is like let's figure out if it's more than just I don't like the look of his hair Or I don't I don't appreciate it backs you that people that a lot of people like it. You see you see that way So I think this is so there's two passes on one hand if they're just afraid like it's so free He's like, yeah, I love Loki. I'm like, that's fine, man Everyone can like whatever they want. However, on the other hand Him liking it along with millions of other people means we're going to keep getting more of it Um, and that is not a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I feel like the mcu is Basically like we keep talking about exactly where it's died Think phase four has killed it now um, if you combine Loki and because obviously we don't want to Take thousands of hours away from you, but if we combine the damage wand of vision falcon the winter soldier black widow and uh Endgame and Loki have done Um, I this a nightmare for a writer to make a strong story in the mcu right now To deal with or everyone's done as variables And then we you would need we're at like the beginning probably and still in terms of the overall scope of the mcu They're going to introduce like a thousand new characters and they're all going to be really powerful flying around all over the place And they'll just drop bad guys It's inevitable Um, well to clarify I'm a big fan of civil war and I think civil war is juggling more than most mcu movies If not, I'm not gonna say all of them endgame juggles the most but still civil war is juggling a lot And it's surprising how well written. I think that film manages to be yeah, and I think that there's still Chances that so for example if if they're like, hey fringy, we're gonna bring you in to make the dead devil movie in the mcu And it's gonna be he's gonna be starting up right now I still feel like well fringy could just he's in hell's kitchen And he's minding his own business doing hero stuff on a low end and it could be a great film That would be that would be my like if somebody said fringy you have to make an mcu movie I'd be like man. I need to separate it as much from the rest of the universe as possible because I kind of can't I don't know. I'm not sure it's almost like the less of an event just five you movie. Yeah Well, if it was event just five, oh Well, I just want to I just want to say by the way, I've got going like roughly 15 minutes. Is that okay? Yeah, yeah, that's totally fine man. Um, you must remain Um, is there anything else you want to kind of like there was like burning questions you went to ask me or anything But I figure it's probably more fair to say is that for that for you? Is there because you saw some of our coverage. Was there anything you wanted to clarify or talk about? Yeah, oh, yeah, actually like At the start, you know, and I was sort of like covering the state of doc two in my kind of opinion of it I think I'm obviously I'm paraphrasing here But I think you guys are sort of saying like it doesn't seem like you're committing to one side of the other Whatever you're gonna say that you hate it or not and like it seems like you're sort of like walking on egg shelves Around like the people that like it. Is it was that it's like a fair kind of summation of what you guys are saying? Yeah, from what I remember you said something along the lines of um, yeah You don't want to necessarily talk too much about what you think is like Florida's not for you and that for the people who do like it It's time for them to sort of talk about what they liked specifically the remember the quote I remember annoying me and this is like I don't I don't get Like this is the one thing in the video that annoyed me like the rest of it was just like, yeah I don't agree with that I got a note when you said that you wanted to give you didn't speak about it because you wanted to give people space to Like it.    I feel that um I feel that I would have said something different in the I feel that essentially what you're saying is that um, you're giving By saying that you want to give people space to like it You're essentially telling the toxic positivity people that they're right and that if you'd created a negative review You would be wronging them in some way and that's the uh, I don't know I I feel I get the sense that's what you meant to say, but that's what I um, that's what it that's what it meant I guess that's not what you meant to say then by the sound of it. So in that case it sounds like we actually like very much agree Sounds like it Yeah, I just I agree with you the toxic positivity Yeah, exactly By the way, I thought it was because like something we know It was like in the initial part there you you're much more So if someone who loved jody whittaker's era was listening they probably be like that's chill That's chill.   But also at the same time like I don't want to give these people any room to give me those comments So I'm saying like it's it's exhausting to me. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like I would rather just like give me those caveats and like, okay I've thrown you the bone here now. I'm gonna tell you why I think now And like if you're not on board like germy like why are you watching the video germy? I've already told I've already given you the caveats. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I totally appreciate what you're trying to do. I totally appreciate what you're trying to do that I I guess I just have notes on how you phrased it. But you know, I think we're pretty much on the same page I like I like to do the same thing like I don't know. I guess I attribute a lot of Um a lot of my audience to the fact that I'm willing to essentially extend bones to people but also Keep within my own principles at the same time. I think that's a very important thing to forever youtuber to do Is to absolutely not leave it's to make sure they're not leaving room for the the misinterpretations and the And the people who just want to get mad don't leave room for the people to for those people to To get mad in the way that you know, they probably want to But don't then also make the video entirely just if you're going to comment this then this and if you don't want to You know, you know I'll tell you guys finding your own experience but like sometimes like I find myself I'm writing things in a script for a video that I'm almost like I'm almost responding to the comments before I've even seen one And I'm like, I need to stop doing that because like yeah, we've done that Yeah, I think the the the trick there is to not Say something and then say the thing that is responding to the comments You know, you're gonna get because you said the previous thing I always try to personally Freeze the first thing in a way that Doesn't allow the interpretation that those comments are going to be responding to like I'm always I always try to I always try to um Respond to the comments in the thing that I'm saying rather than saying something else afterwards And yet you made a response to the response to a video Also, then make a half hour video responding specifically to comments, but Yeah, I Yeah, it's just like I want to just like It I want to be constantly motivated to keep making the next video Do you know what I mean? Like I'm just working for myself now do this full time Like I used to do this with a job and when I did with a job, do I mean it like it wouldn't matter as much But like now it's like I need to feel completely passionate about doing this thing so I can keep it going, right? And I just feel like it takes away my enthusiasm And it just it just exhausts me to see comments like that and like maybe Maybe there's an element where I've rolled over too far the other way by going you have space to like it if you want to Maybe that's fair enough, but Yeah, I hope you can just see where I'm coming from in the sense It's like I just want to talk about the show and what's good or bad. Like I don't care about Yeah, I don't want to tell people that I have space to like it. I think the the issue I took was that Um, you implying that your video existing would not give would take away from people's space to like it That was yeah, no, I see I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying um, but yeah, I just I just wish like particularly with like this new era like it just seems like The viewing figures are going down the hype for show is going down. Like we're not the only people Yeah, have have criticized it, you know in a way that actually like targets The you know the way it's made and I just think like Why do some people get online about this stuff? It's like I've not offended you personally I said anything I said anything to offend you about the show like I've just criticized like the writing You know like yep People get very personally invested in whether or not other people think that the writing of something is well made I think horrible things levied at me for saying like I just don't like something It's insane and that right there should be enough to unlock the more interesting Discussion tier of why does it make you feel that and what does media do to you on like a personal level and Because a lot of people connect to it really personally without ever acknowledging that they'll be like What no I'm just talking about how good it is and you're shitting on it. So that's wrong I gotta stop you Not to say not to say that I don't do that at all by the way. I'm just the same as anyone else But also like, you know, I mean if if someone wants to walk in on this on the stream right now And say here's like, you know, I've laid it out. Here's why I think this jelly wicket era is good I want to try and prove you wrong. I wouldn't be like Oh, no, like god, this is just angering me so much that you disagree with me like, you know, like You know say it like let's see what you got. You know, like that's that's interesting I'm like the thing that would make me angry in that discussion is and I would try to keep my cool Like, you know, I don't like getting angry at people on streams and I I don't think I ever have Really, I don't know maybe a couple but Um, the thing that would fix me isn't the fact that they disagree with me If they were being like incredibly obtuse or difficult that would get to me You know more so than just the fact that they have a different perspective on something Oh, yeah, I'll take honesty over Like honesty and stupidity over dishonesty and intelligence Oh, yeah And it's just like it's a it's a work to try and just get an honest earnest answer out of them And it's the most frustrating and shitty thing The the scenario that I'm like envisioning at the moment is I try and explain the same point to someone Like several times and then they come out with a So you're saying and then you know Something that's an unfavorable.  You're quiet here. I I think um I totally think that when you like toxic positivity, that's certainly a thing I think that there should be no harm that comes from just trying to talk About media and why you like it and why and what you think works in it and what doesn't work Especially when most of the time when we're dealing like I mean, it's definitely the case where you were dr Who you obviously really like the show and it's kind of why you're so motivated to talk about why you find it so frustrating It's the same with me for like stuff and more and raise and j. It's just it shouldn't I don't want to see an environment where Open conversation about what we think about media is discouraged because negative opinions aren't allowed But positive opinions are totally fine all the time And it's just like ultimately at the end of the day like it's media it's entertainment Like you shouldn't be getting like this to each other over like, you know discrepancy of opinion like Like, you know, I mean like if there's something retraumatic in your life that someone is trying to talk to you about You have every right to just be like no, I don't want to talk about this and get vitriolic to them You know, but like if we're just talking about low key Like that's a bit different.  I'm sorry to everyone that likes the jolly wicked era. Like I wish I could like it Like do you think do you think I enjoy like Bigger thing to watch series 13 or like not getting to watch revolution of the daleks Like the christmas special of dr Who was a staple every year in my life since since it came back and like I would rather that continue Like do you remember?      Just like go away You're the fact that there's a video that's stating it's bad than that it's sitting there looking at me like I can't have that Like if there was a video a five hour video going over why it was good I would be interested in what arguments it makes but the fact that it exists would not be Potentially some of those arguments would vex me but not the fact that it exists It could be that that person just has entirely different standards to any of the ones that we use Yeah and it's like equally like Like the right skywalker right as I've said a couple times on this.  Yeah, like stuff. It's like if you like this then you know those kinds of Like one of the first videos on my channel was someone saying that if you like the mc You what you you are like like a malformed child or something. I remember that that was fun. That was a fun video to respond to The comment I I love the most is when someone points something out or suggests something to you that you've covered in the video Like maybe even like a minute later and it's like How did you like you commented that but like you didn't like like the the answer is right there. You know what I mean? Like it's Just just watch a little bit more of the video You know, I mean well people don't realize is that comment sections are just the same three comments over and over again Like 90% of it Me something funny. Nobody something dot dot dot profit. Yeah, there you go. That's like three of the most common ones in one Oh, actually that reminds me as well. That was the other thing I went to bring up From the video is like you you guys deduct points from me for saying like Don't forget to subscribe or like comment when you think of this thing I'm like I just want to say like I I see I see I see why I took the piss out of that but like I genuinely try to respond to a lot of comments So when I say stuff like that like I know it can come across a bit like this and generous But I genuinely do try to sit there You know, I should have I should have referenced the fact that we know you do because we covered you doing it before So, you know what? It's good that you broke the mold and that's a correction because yeah The the the common thing is that it feeds the algorithm They don't actually read in their comics and as I think Fringy said it's like it's always is it three Well three example questions Like it Like question question question segment done and it always feels really Captain Midnight video Was oh might have been it might have been Captain Midnight video or saying that I think why it was the Captain Midnight video Yeah, the point is I have no problem with people doing that if they actually read and respond to the community's ads This is like yeah go for it And I try to respond to a mixture of positive people negative people Do I mean I don't just want it to be like Oh, if you scroll down any one of my videos, he's just responding to people that agree with him Yeah, that's that's cool. That's uh, that's because you see that on certain channels where they're always Harding the comments telling them how great they are and how awesome they are while ignoring the people who have criticisms against them Names channels Fringy single out these people Yeah Do it now It happens I like It happened. I think it happens more on smaller channels Then yeah, I mean, well you say that but there are channels that have like 300 000 subscribers Around they're about to do that Yeah, I'm sure there are but I think it's more common amongst probably smaller channels I think you just need to be careful with that because it can feed your ego And you always want to keep it in check as much as possible I would also like to say I mean I don't know what you guys think but I also think there's A lot of good comments in the comment section Do you I mean like there's a lot of things that maybe go that's an interesting way to look at it Or like I'm glad that you just felt encouraged by what I've made like that's really nice Like do I mean like and and also like I wouldn't have continued doing youtube if there's good comments one there Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, naturally. There's always people being friendly. That was a good video. Yeah. Yeah, thanks That's the it really depends on what the video is as well Yeah Like I feel as um as It depends on how like personal the video seems like if people get a sense that you are a person on the other end You'll generally get a lot of nicer comments rather than you like, you know, it doesn't matter if like that When they're looking at a thing you made rather A thing that could have been made by a team right that kind of thing that feels less personal will get less Nice comments and and and some things clearly high effort will get a lot of nice comments as well Like my most recent video the comment section is lovely Oh, no the video before all right, the five hour one Oh, yeah, I enjoyed that by the way Oh, thanks rush That was shit I'm gonna I'm gonna have to ask you if you get an ask by chat Just just go with your gut. All right, which is better christmas or halloween Christmas Yeah It's chosen a tribe Um, can I give you a bit back story to that? Yeah, go for it.   So I didn't I didn't trick or treat Um, whatever like that. Um, yeah, so Yeah, I don't really have like the nostalgic context to ever really care about it truly Although I like going out now for halloween. Do you know what I mean? But it's not like I don't think of it fondly. It's like a childhood memory. Yeah, no, that's fair. Um Halloween's a fun time or you know what both christmas and halloween are as fun as you make them It looks like a fun time.  We're uh, we're getting close and close to know the halloween season I'm getting all excited for it. It's my favorite time of year I almost brain legit just all over completed by the halloween season two like what halloween season two I'm a sequel. Yeah What's the second most wonderful time of the year after? Christmas. Oh, I mean, I'm a fan of christmas too. So I'm a fan of late april slot where we get a marvel movie and it's usually one of the good marvel movies like late april Yeah, not this year not this year not in the last two years, but back in the day Uh, yeah late april. It's a good time for a decent marvel movie. Probably a russo movie Well, well definitely for civil war and infinity war. I kind of agree. Yeah What do you think? Oh, you know like when soldier? Well, that's our hot take that's our super. Don't worry. We won't we won't do all that to you We have got people on the internet. I think we're just all just bad Really? Yeah, I really like it. But yeah over time and then recently The our our mega hot take for reference is that Spider-man far from home is better than the soldier That's the hot take nobody in the world has that take except And we we spent seven hours justifying it on an e-fap. So yep, and nobody can argue otherwise That is a firmly established to just be correct Well, it's written in stone. The gods have approved of it dubbed it holy.  I don't think it's possible to convert anybody out of winter soldier love really. It's real hard to do that winter soldier Yeah No, I do I do have a tremendous soft spot winter soldier. I actually I don't love end game. Um, maybe some of the time Join the club That's totally fair. I love end game, but I don't think it's like well crafted. I don't I don't love it anymore I think I used to say I really liked it, but I can't say that anymore after thinking about it so much End game frustrates me now thinking about it After three months of coming out. I stopped thinking about it. So I uh, I like infinity war a lot more than end game Like I actually oh, yeah. Yeah I think it's better like top to bottom Like yeah pretty much every way. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I mean clients were great I miss I miss infinity war thanos. He was cool I see you've got the footage up there. There's thanos right now. Well funnily enough I've been playing infinity war with this far. We've the whole movie is played Oh boy, has it? Who's looking that long? Yeah Well, I mean we've been talking for nearly four hours. So Oh boy, really? Yeah, I was I was putting up like doctor who or uh sherlock or whatever we were talking about and eventually just sort of Selled here It's been fun Yeah, I've been I hope you've enjoyed having me you will Yeah, I've I've I think it went a lot better than I may have expected You know, we've had a lot of guests on and it doesn't always go as as smoothly as you want Especially if they come on in the context of confrontation Um, yeah, it can often go way worse But I've had I've had lots of fun picking your brain as well. It's just talking through lots of stuff It's a good one. I've been a great sport. Yeah and if You know, I I never know with creators, but if you're interested in covering videos I could invite you back someday to hang out with us and react to someone's breakdown of something. Um, if you're interested, of course Yeah, sure. Um Yeah, I don't know if it's my style, but um Yeah, I'll be off giving it a go And uh, Certainly before Before you leave you should uh, you should tell the crazy old people in efap chat What you get up to and why they should follow the link in the description to your channel and maybe hit the subscribe button Um You should follow me because I really enjoy editing more so than any other part of um Doing full-frame videos at the moment and I'm trying to get better and better at it I'm trying to do more match cuts. I'm trying to do my action editing and Like if you're someone that seems in any way interested by that, um Please follow me because I want to keep getting better at it I want to like I want to I want to call myself like a proper editor. Do you know what I mean? Like I want to be able to not just edit video essays. I want to be able to like edit movies and and and learn How to do that. Um, so yeah, so if you want to come with me on that Please go over there and subscribe and also I guess if you like dot-two marvel star wars Uh films video games and you want to hear me talk about it. Um Um Then yeah go over there.  I feel like I did a terrible job Well, no, I thought no one's gonna go over now I feel like our audience is actually big into star wars and the mcu's so they're probably like, hmm Well edited videos about them.  You know, it could be could be We we like the idea of Discussion, you know, it's all good. We we hear any fat value high effort editing Oh, yes We will point we will we will point at people who are just like They've got a trailer loop as their video and we'll be like, hmm Yeah Like I think the the shots are just as important as what you're saying. You need to match up and oh, yeah It can be layered. It can be subtextual. This is the thing. I get frustrated. I don't know how you feel about this But um when people it's like I'm sorry chris.  Yeah Different different tasks I know the j has but like I have worked on a video for six months Twice now. I can't remember if I've done it three times or not, but yeah When you commit to someone like that and then someone's like You know, you're you're kind of the vulture. You're picking up the scraps of someone else's content.  I didn't know he said that Yeah, it's something that really annoyed me Restokman has a few choice quotes that are um, well, he's he's transitioning out into filmmaker now So he needs to start making friends instead of shitting on bridges. Yes Yes, he can burn his youtube bridges. He needs to make filmmaking bridges now But then once he burns those youtube bridges, it'll just be like mr. Burns when Come crawling back, okay Yeah, well unless you know he goes on to become the new jj abrams. Who knows? I'll pay you worse than death. I'm sure yeah My girlfriend is consistently what's happening me to get off this. So I really need to go Thank you so much for coming thank you for spending the four hours. Like I said, yeah, you you're great to talk to you I hope we've given you a decent impression compared to just people who angrily ran on the internet or something. Um, no, yeah It's been a pleasure and I'll happily come on again. Yeah, we'll gladly have you back. Yeah, and um, Obviously, like I said, so people have listened to you and you've given a pitch Link is in the description to find his channel. You've done all kinds of stuff for longer than I think a lot of us have a reviewing, um media Which uh brings us to the end. Thank you so much Thank you. Cheers. Um, I'm gonna click the red button and I think that's gonna end. Yes. Yes I'll see you later guys. All right. Yeah, catch you tomorrow He's gone. He was a very good sport Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think he'd be a top scorer for guests. Well, I don't know the category is antagonist Kind well, I mean probably up in the the jay. So we're true, right Yeah, jay. How do you feel someone's competing with you for best guests?  Oh, no Nothing nothing like that. It's good.  Where did I put it? Mom To play your game you should play during super chats is fall guys. It fits the tone perfectly. Fuck. No, I would be concentrating on it I know Yeah, you should be happy jay. I'm playing legos and you said you you're like interested in information on legos right now I'm doing critique of that game of legos. Yeah I know we were busy sort of talking about loki, but you might have seen apparently a sequel to army of the dead with zack snider Returning to direct that's just confirmed Fail upwards I don't get it. I just I just oh and also his company has a first look deal with netflix now.   Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. And then That's that's all you need. It's all we want from you jay. Is that what I have to leave? I will make Yeah, I think I understood most of that. Yeah, as long as you're not going Is my is my we're cutting out Yeah, well, I have to leave on like a random sound It's argument right now idea Just check the setting. Can you hear me okay now? Yes, we can I was just I was further away from my microphone a second ago I was I'm not a microphone expert. So I don't I don't yeah, I didn't make a microphone j I don't know why you're saying I wasn't the inventor of microphones. That was Thomas Edison or something. Yeah, I wasn't Thomas microphones Thomas Edison's a controversial figure now, isn't he? Like people say that he stole a lot of what? No No, like I'm pretty sure it's it's said that like Thomas Edison It's kind of like in the same way that there was Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs almost like Wozniak created the things and jobs was like the company guy who sort of synthesized the All right. Okay. Well, there you go There it is. Sorry Uh, I think I think the thing that people say is that like he Wasn't really an inventor but more of like a really good businessman and that it was other people who were the inventors um, so like people like tesla were more inventors than um, then Thomas Edison, that's what I've heard Yeah, I feel like Thomas Edison strikes me as an interesting character So I I'm still super interested in some of him. Yeah, I want to be careful because I've seen Passionate pushback being like uh, actually that's a misconception that Edison didn't blah blah. I'm just like, okay fine fine fine Yeah, maybe I But I mean, I thought I was cavi adding the hell out of that Even still we've we've done that before and people will be pissed at us Like you gotta you gotta be definitive. You gotta get the Wikipedia out. Okay Yeah, I suppose Um, but yeah, all righty, so We'll do we'll do today's ones and I'll mix in some new ones if uh, if we can um Immuptually don't know if you forgot But full fat was the guy that was being hated on by that guy to the rise of skywalker guy in his comments Yeah, I um, I remembered it between episodes, uh, and I was like, oh man I'm looking forward to bringing this up because it's actually like a little bit of history Yeah Interesting interaction another e-fap. I just finished catching up with 144. Well, that's the thing Uh, we were actually two behind. We are now back on schedule. I think so This worked out actually as well because these would have happened anyway. We had These had to be slotted in because of the timeline and stuff Um, I think it worked out. It's been fun Mola, you're lesboneous. Hi wags. Hello Any plans to discuss Venom's new Lord of the Rings re-review? Um, well, so I actually uh, I emailed him um to come on now chat about it if you wanted to I've not heard back yet, and I think he deleted his twitter So I'm not sure if we're in a stage of you might be done with social media type thing. I don't know Um, but I don't think we'll be like that decision, but yeah I don't think we'll be yeah. I don't think we'll be reviewing his review again I would rather just have a chat with him about Lord of the Rings and um, I don't know video making and stuff And wish him the best of luck Um, oh, this is gonna be an interesting discussion. Also, hi ragas Hello, I think it was Yep Kick rags Also hi, jay. Yeah, I mean we did the opposite. Sorry commenter. Sorry about that You keep in keeping rags and kicking jay Yeah Surprise efap time to touch myself.  Hope you're all having a great day Yeah, so far. I'm thinking things are going a okay. Yeah Well, the day started so it could all go downhill from here and it probably will So that's true. That's true. This could be the highlight of someone's day Yeah, I'm hoping it doesn't go to shit, you know Yeah, it's not that bad.  Yeah. Yeah, he's a really good sport. He's he's nothing but friendly and all the DMs have had with him as well And also it's just super willing to engage in the discussion in good faith is is that's a goes a long way me Yeah Compared to the the I wish we get his name That's your plan death of the author.  We've been found no long no long kidnapped Okay, all right I'm confused, but all right Um gunpowder milkshake is the dumbest movie I've ever seen since the tomorrow war. Why can't I have nice things? Hello raggann old Hello, haven't even heard of that one That's like john wick but caron gillum. I think that's that's what I've said. Yeah um The thing is man like people love john wick two and three so imagine how bad this movie is Hmm I mean, I don't know. Um, I'm guessing their action is just not up to snuff. I don't I don't know sure Um scrungus bumbless I want to agree with that That's something Yeah, that's fair enough choke me. I agree. Actually choke me mummy j. I uh, uh, woo All right Again, you know, they are free to say whatever they want these super chats. Sometimes you just like yeah, you know, that's fine Uh, the joke of rick and morty episode is that you are experiencing pain from how bad the writing is and thus experiencing plan See, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually tried something like that if it was written by someone competent Like a meta sort of joke was that it was painful in a meta sense But but the problem is that I felt no pleasure. It was just pain So if it were well written and you're watching people go through all kinds of pain and cringy circumstances And then they're like you have some kind of line that implies something about the people watching this we would be like Oh nice Yeah, but no More stop. I can't keep up with all these e-faps You'll be okay. They will be we had a hiccup with 144 and copyright But this one should be able to go right on to moolah as well because people used to say the opposite is the other I swear as yesterday.    It's gonna be a huge factor A lot of people make really Yeah, they like they go for aesthetics on the chassis. They don't like they don't seem to Like understand that cooling's a big deal I cannot cool your computer I remember I had a uh r290 which was a very hot card and I just paid no attention to that and um that caused a lot of issues Um, and then with my new build I bought a massive tower. It's huge. It's a chungus Um, I've never had any overheating issues. It's just big lots of air flowing through Yeah, um, and so things should be all right for now with uh everything Yay, yeah, it's good stuff Mutually euphlysm I haven't had the time to catch up on 144 yet and you start streaming 145 Well flumple my dangus guess 144 can wait right no mill Oh, well Paul 144 poor old us and current us Out out matching them apparently Um, have you seen the lightsabers in the last episode of the flash? It's hilariously bad. I've seen screenshots Yeah, can you fetch that screenshot for rags for any of that possible? um It's clearly something I remember if I should do in a group chat or in one on one, but oh my gosh Yeah, we need to I think you showed it's land. Oh, no. I think you might have shed it. Oh Here it is.  That's a great question How is this the thing that occurs? There you go. I got on screen as well. Yeah, um, so red flash is fighting white flash white god speed god speed against and there's another guy Oh, I think that's reverse flash. So it's flash versus god speed versus reverse They all got little lightsabers for reasons Yeah, so people tell me that this show was good in season one. I don't believe you and I don't believe the arrow is good either I don't believe any of you Bring your refuses to be tricked I'm not no. I just I don't buy it. I don't I've been small but it was better than all these shows Yeah, probably Um, also hi frogo j longman ragu and full fat. Hello. Hey Mola, you and the boys need to check out all tomorrows on youtube It is the greatest story ever told and it has the best memes plus. It's free. It's a win-win Uh, I have no idea what that is. Um, maybe yeah me neither Oh free just letting you know but cdpr didn't enter actual Pre-production until after blood and wine. It was at preconceptual production. Sure. Sure. I don't buy that I don't believe you It ends with just wanted to tell you the fact Okay, all right, so I am gonna wonder It seems weird to me to release a trailer for a video game that you haven't even entered into pre-production for The problem is that we it either spins around to incredible marketing incompetence or production incompetence There is a level of incompetence here on that is baffling Why would you do a reveal trailer for a game that you haven't even started developing yet? Not even started developing you haven't even entered into Yeah, did they have an arrogance warranted yet? Feel like it's not even warranted yet, which it's like cool You need more than that before you can be that cocky about like, I don't know this There was some failure there and i'm not convinced I'm just not convinced that that there was no development active development prior to that point You announce again that you don't go into active development for until five years later Like anthem at least was in development when they told people that they were making it At least they were working on this thing they said that they yeah, there was a folder called anthem it was involved Well, I remember that the name was uh called beyond it apparently some of the developers when they found out it was called anthem That was like news to them Yeah, yeah Imagine working on a game and then it's like wait is anthem What does that even mean? Wow, I think they had to create a reason right there's something in the game Why would they say why would they? Why why that word anthem well anthem is a weird name right because beyond it's like beyond the walls of this fort It's like yeah, okay. That's I get it. Yeah Destiny great beyond like the far beyond the wild beyond the But again beyond it's you can't because there are there are plenty of things called beyond Like there was like david cage game is called beyond um Yeah, I don't know Anthem is just a fascinating case. I'm just like Yeah, all these mistakes that you made and a lot of it was uh was was uh Bioware's fault I can totally understand being the CEO of like Yeah, it's like you've been working on this for five years. Do you haven't even started development yet? Like what's going on? We gave you so much money Yeah, like what did you beat the a exactly now? Of course, there was a part of fault on ea for making them use frostbite Which is not an engine for rpgs, but still you knew that you're working with that engine. Hey, there's plenty of rpgs in battlefield Ah Hey Like the rockets so anyway I Just somebody saying the name was because there was something in the law called the anthem of creation It's like oh man. That's some proper noun salad right there.  It's cool A civil war two war How cool was yeah, free grace to me with like a summary of I guess it's not even a summary. It's just the story Yeah Civil war two specifically All right, I gave him a summary of civil war the the comic as well because I have it so I read parts of it out Wasn't very impressed.  I think anyway. Oh, yeah, of course Yeah It's worse because there isn't even a legitimate argument to have like captain marvel is wrong.    Well, unless he's a green plague doctor I wouldn't I wouldn't make comparison. That's pretty offensive It is I was about to say I'm sworn to crows Like jake of cane I I think so. Which is why we should probably get excited actually No, we don't have much of him left. Yeah, you're going to enjoy every last scene we have of him Yeah, we gotta we gotta just every moment Um Poor poor jake of cane is so mistreated by the show. Absolutely. Yeah, he's one of the strongest characters of the dceu He should be in the justice league With his deagle. Yeah, I'm down Uh molla, how ready are you for iron maiden 17th album sin jitsu?  I guess but I don't know I'm not following them actively so I don't know what to expect Uh Fun fact one of the truss defenses you guys covered was made in response to full fat videos truss videos So you guys have indirectly crossed paths before yeah How about that? Uh, hi molla. Hi rags. Hello Hi there time for twos campaign was incredible. Thanks for the recommendation regret not playing it sooner since I got it for free on ps plus Glad you liked Yeah, that seems to be a consistent recommendation Really is great. Oh, yes um Molla is racism against spoons. We shall spoon him during the day. We shall spoon him during the night We shall spoon him at all times until he loves us. Come on computer fight off task manager It's the computer's trying. Okay, and as for spoons. I don't know. I just don't trust him. That's all Yeah, maybe I'll change my mind someday. I don't know so Hi, as I said before I've got full blown aides It's not a reference to um Liam Neeson in Have you guys seen that skit? No, so I don't think I don't think I have basically like Liam Neeson walks to a room I think it's part of some show. I'm not sure but um Life's too short. I think it was but rigid base has like a meeting with Liam Neeson when he comes in He's like I want to do sketch comedy And they're like, okay he's like so Well, we'll set up like a improv session All right, and he's like, I'm a store owner. I'm like, okay. I'm coming in and they like they do the rigid base It's just like hello.  Oh full blown. He's gonna be the family guy right a song reference true.  They race they recast your favorite arnie character. Hi rags Hi, so are we talking turbo man or mr. Freeze? Or tea too Yeah, I like mr. Freeze over turbo man gotta say I will I think I agree with that mr.  I don't know uh, isn't that Isn't that paramount? I don't know. I uh, I'm pretty sure it's I'm a net as paramount I was curious if they would just using their own ip's throughout all that or if they were doing Probably is just their own ip's because that's all they have access to well. They could pay for licenses, right? Thank god, but it seems like they want to just do Warner Brothers stuff Yeah, um There is nothing on the plans for watching space jam too But I mean if you guys were up for em all I'm happy to do the double feature at some point I will if you guys know Yeah, I'm not gonna rush you Because it would be interesting to see the comparison Like back to back Of what they've done with the old manu and and to be honest with you Space jam is a film I saw a whole bunch when I was younger, so it'll be interesting to revisit Yeah, I I like my loony too, but I definitely prefer just loony since the space jam. Yeah, but I do like space jam Rags lend mutually a snow it'll help his pc Yeah, that will help. Yeah, you you heard of a liquid cooled pc, but Let me pitch you this Right, what about a pure snow cooled pc?  Um, it was for a little bit for just a moment, but it's normal now. What did it sound like?  I don't know Uh But yeah, as for putting snow in the pc. I just need to do it very carefully You know wouldn't want it to leak into the whole thing with water and then frizzle for idle and stuff I'm assuming your snow is Able to be used very specifically for stuff like that Oh, this snow it is It stays cold Let me tell you this you might say is this like some kind of a like a solid liquid nitrogen And I would say you know what that is an interesting yet apt Comparison because this stuff is this is the pure shit. This is This is like if there was a god of snow This would be it. This is like this this never melting snow. It's like magic It's like girgy. He got a wallet of never-ending food Gimli he got some hair me pure never melting snow incredible absolutely incredible I've never hit a better pitch. I'm definitely gonna look into this. Yeah Do you do like multiple packages or is it just like the one package deal? That depends on what you need depends on what you need You're not gonna need a lot not gonna need a lot just a little pinch You put you got to work it into Certain cpu coolers that can use it. It's really it's really really something else Do you have a Delivering bulk to like industries that are trying to sort of use it for big projects and stuff Well, I don't want to you see it's like um, I don't want to draw too much attention to it Don't know how much I'm really going to have overall Uh, want to keep it sort of a small kind of small small deal. I don't want the whole world to know Not yet. Yeah, I don't think they're ready for it. I don't think they're ready for it Um My first experience with dr. Who not knowing what it was was the family of blood the first episode I watched knowing the doctor who was was blink.  So Might skew your expectations a little bit How does it feel to know that c137 rick and morty were assassinated? What did we do? Why can't we have good things anymore kick j. Hi froggie Hi froggie. Um Yeah, like I can I can isolate it to the one episode or so But if they keep this up for the whole season like it'll kill the show so obviously Really hoping we don't end up with that, but uh, the past three episodes we saw we were very disappointed Just after standing so hard Outrageous, that's what I think um A suspicious amount of e-faps. Yeah, you could say that What's going on here? Play more a muggus a muggus a muggus. Um I don't know that we're ever going to be playing that again compared to just wanting to do uh Like what is it called garlic phone? Which by the way, we are we are behind on we should have another time soon As long as everyone's on board. Yeah, we gotta we need to play that again. I love garlic phone It's been a while since we've played it. I think um, I think there's a plan to make a e-fap versus friday night tights for garlic phone I'll I'll get them It won't make any sense because it's a whole team effort, but we will make it make sense Uh Moffat is great with standalone episodes in two parts as he can't do series long arcs He can build up to the mystery, but the payoff tends to be weak Sounds like JJ Abrams, don't I? Um, though, I think the link is probably better than anything JJ Abrams has made so I don't know What do you guys think of the rdj Sherlock Holmes movies? Have you uh, I remember liking them. I I don't know how like I I I liked them. I just can't I still I don't know. I I saw him a long time ago I remember like in the first one more than the second one, but I remember being happy with both of them Maybe a rewatch would uh Illuminate my thoughts. Yeah, I'd be down. Yeah, I'd be down rewatching Well, they're making a third one, I think right or at least they've announced a third one I don't know if they've made it or making it Interesting to see where it goes Um, I don't think bring these back. Yeah, we'll hang on to that one by the way Oh, sorry Black widow should have been the Budapest where Hawkeye finds and refuses to kill black widow because she refuses to kill her target near civilians Yeah, we all We all thought it would be like You know We all no one saw this coming No, and they this person said the target would be Loki He refuses to kill Loki near civilian I don't know why Loki would be involved if you're going back to Budapest. Maybe misunderstand the super chat But I agree the the thing that could make Hawkeye question killing her is maybe a decision she makes on her own You know mission that could be cool, but yeah, the film was not about what we wanted it to be about Hi rags Hi Hi long man Hello And then it says hi rags again Oh, hello again, and then hi fringy, which I'm sure you would say hello to but he's just currently a little bit busy This is hi rags again Hello again, this is hi j kick him dunzo sorted. Oh he gown. He's out of here. Then another hi rags Oh my goodness. Hello, and then hi fat. Which you know, yeah makes sense and then hi rags again Hi there a lot of hi rags. Uh, how are you all doing doing pretty good? I'm doing all right. Have a nice. Are you okay? A nice little conversation Absolutely Um Hey fringy, what would happen if you put your goo into me asking for a friend? um I think I mentioned on my stream yesterday, but I haven't started doing human experiments yet, so Are they soon? Well, I'm busy, you know, I've been working on a video And I've been working on my comic so it's tough to squeeze in the time Yeah, I guess that's fair.  I don't want to you know ruin your schedule as it already is you know a little complicated Yeah, it's already it's already jam-packed like I got at these appearances while trying to do the comics and my other stuff, man You there's not a day off when you're a plague doctor, especially green one Also, do you prefer laissez-faire or central planning economics? I mean if I had to pick the two, I guess I'd prefer laissez-faire, but I don't really yeah, I feel like between those two options laissez-faire If I had to choose between the two but not ideal Definitely not ideal. That's kind of my thing. I want something somewhere in the middle not not laissez-faire But definitely not central planning Yeah, I feel like laissez-faire would work better Quotes everywhere. I have more of a means of Affecting change on the laissez-faire system than I do in the other one. Yeah, I feel at least it was I at least I could just There'd be more. Yeah, I feel like there would be more opportunity for me to do shit Oh, I mean to just try and fix the system to make it more what I want But in central planning, how do I make amendments to it? Yeah, if I'm not the if I'm not the big man at the top Yeah, if I'm not one of the oligarchs in charge or whatever you'd call them Uh, you might be screwed. Totally. You just wouldn't be able to do anything. Yeah But preferably neither somewhere something in the middle. Yeah um The music in blackwood was really good by the same guy who did mission possible fallout assassin's creed 3 and the tomorrow war and terminated Genesis What was it lawn ball for something? I am I don't like the soundtrack in black widow. Yeah, I don't remember it.  Okay Yeah, no, he's done some good stuff for sure I like uh, I like the soundtrack and assassin's assassin's creed 3 soundtrack is pretty fantastic. Um, he did modern warfare 2 Most part Didn't just briquette do a lot of the assassin's just briquette did a lot of the earlier assassin's creed.  It was I really do like freeze though And this is uh, this is the interesting thing is lawn buff. He's done more than people give him credit for because um A lot of people think modern warfare 2 was Han Zimmer. Han Zimmer did the main theme. I'm pretty sure and lawn buff did most of it and Similarly crisis 2 everybody loves crisis 2 soundtrack main theme is awesome But that was Han Zimmer. Everything else was lawn buff as well So I don't know if it's ball for bath. I might be mispronouncing it um Yeah, he and he did assassin's creed revelations with jesper kid. Is it just an infinite source of money? Oh, maybe That's that's a little bit lame, isn't it? I don't know Maybe doesn't it from infinite It's anyone lego. No, is this just here forever in which case I guess you just wait and then you can unlock everything once you get 99 golden Yeah, apparently it is okay. Well I'm just gonna drink. I'll be right back Mm-hmm Um, but yeah, I I wouldn't call the music in black widow really good though had literally none of it. Um stood out to me All I remember is And that's not anything at all It's very normal to me for the most part. Uh, well, it's just narrow sort of it fits into the You know, it's just what yeah, there's no unique tone Which is interesting because I don't feel that way about all the marvel movies civil war Or what? I love the sound so has a really good soundtrack. So there's infinity war all the stuff that alan subvestary I probably mispronounced his name too. He's done some good stuff Guardians has a cool original soundtrack as well. Yeah Don't get enough credit for that Um Big bang theory is the only show that consistently makes me laugh. Please stop. Please don't destroy it Oh I figure you're all you must be aware of its reputation Like it's not new for you on big black big blank theory. Yeah, I'll go with that well Um, because for a time it was number one in terms of popularity well good for it The Loki TV show is that's a nonsense, but at least the soundtrack was awesome.  Yeah um Keep up the good work more and everyone your dedication and hard work is appreciated kickjay and also high rackles I indeed Yeah, thank you. We will On the topic of animated comedies that deal with high concepts. Has anyone seen Xavier renegade angel? It looks like a shitpost, but it's quite clever I haven't seen it. I have not seen it. Yeah Um, if you ifab movies the pirate movies phil mento has videos praising the second for perfect plot Perfect plot, right? And the third for a perfect action scene finale Hmm Man Uh, I don't know about that. Yeah, we I'd have to Obviously give it a give it a little watch through and uh, maybe He's an interesting guy that phil mento Yeah, I don't know why people tell on us. Nah, he's good Well, I've seen much less of that after the three times we covered it Which tends to happen Yeah, it was just weird. That's all I mean You'd expect that with everybody, right? Because everyone we cover has fans I guess everybody. Yeah to a certain extent, but it seemed like a lot of people And and you know, I'm pretty sure like the the first time you covered Lindsay Ellis It probably wasn't as much favorability there Yeah, um, that would be interesting to see actually, but we haven't actually covered her I don't think like an explicit video yet I think we've mentioned her But we'll be interested if we pulled up a video of her as I get curious if chat were like, you know what? Let her finish her point. Why are you pausing all the time? I love it when those come up talking that high top, but it was spider-man homecoming. That was really great Whatever it's almost like you must be new or you must be really protective over this particular creator It's like stop pausing them Oh, yes thoughts on the clip of nude rottick's bad take on southport and his take on batman the animated series If you haven't seen it, then maybe you can pull it up Uh southport actually sent me it. I like I'm very confused by lots of what gary said um One of the more confusing things was when he said who's gonna watch a five-hour video essay I was like, huh? I'm pretty sure he has watched my stuff. That's more than five hours and then um It was in reference to dr. Who and I'm pretty sure he's seen jay's dr. Who video. So that was just confused. Um Then the defenses for like batman the animated series. Yeah, I don't think they hold up very well like it's So the problem when you say with um, this thing was made in this time And so to critique it from this like modern lens. It's just not fair What does that mean for stuff that comes through despite being old? Do we just go? Well, that's irrelevant because it Shouldn't have or something to talk about the only what was good about it at the time But if yeah, that's it's uh, you know, and I guess it would just be in that case It's just separate the distinction between like you really like the show Versus like what you think about this quality and it may be that gary hasn't watched it in a while And that's the thing I think batman the animated series is one of many things where people will be like What are you doing criticizing that you don't criticize that? You should be like, huh? Especially if you're completely out of the loop you'd be like, I don't understand. Why can't I and then I think people jump to a lot of defenses that they're not Thinking through a lot of the time like one of the ones most comments Like it's not even intended for you it's intended for like younger audiences or do you know how much it changed? Do you know what it did? Do you know influential it was? Well, and I guess that's part where it's we need to be a distinction. It's like influential. No doubt good That's a that's a whole different and even the and again because like I like batman the animated series from What little I remember of it like I like it. I like I like what it is But I don't I don't know how good it is. I haven't watched it I would have caught a couple of episodes here and there probably I'm not attached to it at all And so south will be like actually it's terrible or whatever he said to me. I'm just like, okay, maybe I don't know I haven't seen it Um, obviously he's shown me clips that are hilarious, but I mean Who knows what the overall quality of the whole show is apparently there's good episodes if not great episodes, so Um, perhaps we shall have to wait for his covering of it if if he decides to do that or not. Yeah, I don't know Fringy for a meme. Could you please say hey hey in your best babu frik voice? What does babu frik sound like again? He's like hey, but like really high-pitched Oh, let me let me just look up babu frik. Let me I'll try and get into character Um babu frik. Hey, hey Okay, let's see give me a minute. Mm-hmm. He's up. Hey Wait, hold on. I need to find the give me the timestamp. I don't have one. I'm so sorry. Oh there it is It's really funny. I mean, he's one of my favorite parts of Ryza Skywalker Yep, there you go. You got it. You can slip that out. Hey, hey, there you go. All right, you got it Slip it out. Put it in your meme. Put it in your meme. Do it. Do it He just popped out of nowhere Hi to the lot of you Thanks, Jay for keeping up to date with the last couple of seasons of who without needing to watch them alone Hello, and yeah videos like jays make it so that I never feel the need to ever see seasons 11 12 of doctor who Like I've seen that video. It's fine You need more estrogen for that one. Well, yeah, I mean I don't my voice is a certain pitch really hard to get a high pitch Anyone isn't like high pitch. This is a weird little uh, it's like high but not in pitch Anyone else as hard as rock. Let's get started God Hmm, I don't I wasn't as hot. No, I was just looking to have a conversation. Jeez Is is Christmas better than Christmas? Feel like it levels out. I for Christmas the war on Christmas My god 20 million. Oh, I can put it times eight. All right. Just gotta get one more now Man, this really Hello, I made coffee because I'm I I I used to last of the tea that I had so I'm like I better do it now so that it's ready and But what's weird is that I because with efap time I can have I can start making it and it could be like basically it could be done by the time the stream's halfway over So Yeah, gotta start now. Let's all have more later Uh Star Wars episode 10 somehow clone palpatine return possible Don't put it past them What are you doing? What are you doing spoon heads? You mean cardassians? I mean, I don't even know what they were in doctor who they were just like creatures I think they made people into spoon heads. I don't remember.  Have you given any more thought to a kong fap movie fap of peter jackson's kong? um This definitely is one of those things we're like so for example I think I would have said even in like the first efap episode if efap movies was going at that time We'll do a mask of sorrow efap movies one day And like that would have been true and technically now it exists But you guys are still not going to see that until as much as a year and a half from now Man the backlog if we died there'd be so much content by that. Yeah by the way Is we're ratcheting up now with with resin evil Hoping there's no guarantees. Okay because of how everything went but Hoping to get the six movies done and a trailer for the efap movie arc of resin evil before october 1st Wow release them I think let me have a look see Because I think it worked out really luckily this year and well if if if it works out luckily To go october 1st 8 15th 22nd 29th and 31st that is six days that covers the full month You know what feels like an equal way and there's six movies So um, and you know, it'll have consistent memeage lots of fun to be had A lot of fun.  It's gonna be great Me too, it'll be like I've forgotten so much of what we said and did yeah And then yeah, we got the the war movies are still being creative and lots stuff like that will happen in future So basically Peter Jackson's King Kong will arrive at some point at some point Don't know exactly when I'll see I have unlocked the super mega stud multiplier now we got A full total of times three thousand eight hundred and forty Holy fuck. Yeah Um P.S. Hello wagsies squishes for the good boy Long Long Kong you could say based on the runtime. Yeah, maybe that is the long kong My god, look how fast I make money now I'm saying We're the multiplier in the three thousands. I hope so. Yeah Loki's changing character Loki's changing character throughout the show hiccups a bit like major skips in character development than entire episodes of being the writer slash directors soapbox I'm closer to being sympathetic to the idea that if you accept the change in episode one the rest of it kind of um Flows better, but like I just never accepted it. Yeah, but yeah, they don't Maybe that's why they tried to do so. I don't want to say work. No, no, but put so much stock and Tried to sell it to people How do you say try to sell it asserted that he was a different character in the first episode because you kind of need that Yeah Yes, the feelings theft begins take them all I think I think we may have moved his mind on a couple things here and there about Loki. I don't know I hope so Um, do you guys coom with the door open rags? Normally, I don't think there's normally never anyone else in the house as far as I'm aware So you don't have to really worry about it and I mean like hey I mean Yeah, something you want to show off a bit, right? Someone walks in you're like, oh my god. I need to get me a piece of that Yeah, it's like presenting now. It's a part now.  Yeah Uh Boop see poop see we made multi-dimensional war Well, that's think uh, that's not it for the Loki talk Saturday We're gonna be gonna going over the the season. I have to rewatch it for that by the way I still haven't started that rewatch Gonna be fun The junior and Loki is pointless They could have just shown him another montage of his life and gotten him up to power and brought him directly to the end So again, we will talk about this on Saturday, but I don't understand what Kang was doing Why didn't he just teleport him straight away? Oh, yeah, right? Saturday is the lucky breakdown Yeah, I forgot what we're doing on Saturday. It felt like that. It felt like that was today sort of sort of yeah Kind of yeah, we'll go chronologically and we'll be much more definitive on the floors on saturday probably and we'll have Gary as and drinker. So Who knows what they will say Yeah, this is just yeah, that's right. This is the We've not yet begun to criticize Rick kind of forgot about his core character traits also high rags. Yeah Hi there Um What's up guys working on my cola cthulhu campaign when I caught this stream my first stream live I send you my regard from the francophone land of quebec Um long live the long man. Ozzy bonjour rags Uh wee wee Merci Yeah, um, well, hope it's going well a little campaign. Thank you very much Um, and Jay, what kind of keyboard do you have nice vid? Um, if you're looking for the type or like model and make and stuff I won't be able to get that but his video does his his video shows his keyboard here and there, right? And uh I think he's got like the it lights up and stuff That kind. Oh boy. Yeah But yeah, I'm not sure this show can be saved by saying it's Kang's plan He doesn't care if the multiverse exists.  It's because the whole show is his entertainment the tva's incompetence Loki spreading chaos the multiverse war is all a game This is a story about a depressed immortal who wants to see chaos. It would work better if he was just in the earlier episodes Um, I'm still not a fan of that.  They're cool Again like Loki making any decision at any point even if they frustrate me becomes meaningless because it was just Kang doing it Which by the way is still kind of what we're dealing with so So shit like they just just in the last episode actually it's this guy. Oh Okay All right, I just got more than 1.2 billion studs Oh my god The richest lego piece in the world Uh, if the temperature doesn't go down i'll be melted Yeah I mean, yeah, that's that's true. I would suck It is it is concerning all the melts that's happening right now. Ever heard of the melt all melting Well, there was a lot of melting going on Ice caps freeze Germany's melting. Well, Jimmy's flooding, but well, yeah, that was melt some way some something melted and made them flood Yeah um I like mohler rags j Stefan molyneux, aron, magruder, michael, malice and stoned toss for political reasons Who should I vote for in 2024? Wait, you like Stefan molyneux. All right Well, I'd stoned toss it. I don't sure who the other people are Right. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know who the other people are molyneux was uh, he got he got He got eat it. Yeah He's an odd one Yeah, yeah He's an odd fellow Yeah, these compilations are like some of the craziest stuff that he said and it's like oof.  It's just the eggs stuff. The eggs thing is really funny. Oh, yeah Covered the eggs of yeah Man, this is just you know, it's like we all have our hobbies, but We all have our hobbies, but you know but uh I don't think you're gonna find efap telling you who you should vote for based on who you like content creators wise That's pretty bad metric If you like fringy vote for the green party, there you go Uh, no vote the orange party Vote rags. It's funny. There there is a green party in australia that the greens Yeah, they were one of the minor parties Do they touch grass? No, was that why they're green? That's their goal. They love the grass. That's why they're the green party kind of Think I think I don't know shit about the green party to all best album from your favorite three bands Best album. Yeah, which is the best album from your favorite three bands Or I feel like to make this easier. I will pick three of what I think are the best albums from three of my favorite bands rather than like the top three, so I love um hypnotize and mesmerize from System of a town and if I had to choose one it would probably be hypnotize Then Whichever let me check Which song Is this from It might be emerald sword This whichever album emerald sword is from rhapsody of fire like basically the whole album the most Then Oh, I'm not even sure with avantasia That's a tough one. There you go. You had two off me. You guys do the rest I generally don't go by albums when I get music. It's generally in individual songs from all kinds of different places But there are some But I think one of the reasons that electric light orchestra is my favorite band is that they just seem to consistently put out All kinds of really great stuff More so than any artist that I've found So I'd probably say time is the best album that they've done I There are some contenders. I really like el dorado and discovery A bunch, but there's done a lot of they've done a lot of good ones, but I'd say time's my favorite Uh As for I don't really that's the thing I don't