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Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and use the code APRILESPECIAL with no space for the discount. All right, enjoy this podcast. Do you guys think my lips look natural? I'm gonna make this fake.   Or a barber? What? Yeah, she's cutting my hair and she goes, can I ask you? Like you got like injections? She goes, can I ask you a question? I said, yeah, I don't know if you can ask me a question. She goes, do you get lip injections? Like no. I don't know. Vicky, do you know what you asked? He just pouts a lot. She's got really full lips. I feel like this is all stemming from the wife beater getting you coming over and saying like, oh, you're so gorgeous. No, you don't. You wear makeup? Do you have lip injections? I should ask if I wear makeup. Do you have eyeliner? Yeah. What are you doing? No, so I don't know if that's a compliment or not. Because you ever seen pictures of people like bad lip injections? Like why would you think that? You know what I mean? Well, bad ones. Stung by bees. No, these are just, these are natural.  You know what I mean? Yeah, I never thought you had like big full lips although I never really paid attention. Now that you're looking, stop. Just don't lick him because that's creepy. I hate that. You ever seen, yeah. Oh, look at that. See, look at the pictures. Oh my God, what is it? Terrible. Wow. Those are bad jobs. That is terrible. Very, very bad. Yeah, the duck one. I remember I had a girlfriend that was first, this was first getting popular like, you know, in the early to like mid early 2000s, like when it first started to get popular. What did they inject him with, by the way? The collagen? Yes. Is it collagen? Yes, yes. And they, she wanted to do it. And I was like, no, no, don't do that.  And I came back and he, yes, dude. That's what I was just like, could you see you? It looks terrible.  Duck lips. I'll make your lips swollen for free. And she didn't have bad lips. You know what I'm saying? Like I kind of get it like, OK, so there's there's some people that, you know, are you have like no lips like there? Yeah. Yeah. They're like, all right. Yeah. Like I get it. It's just it's just the face. They're just almost a corpse. Yeah, yeah, I get it. So I feel like I feel like it's there for some, but it's gotten out of control that even people that have lips just enhanced it. It's got nuts with it. Yeah, it looks out of balance. You know what it reminds me of? Fake tits on flat asses. Oh, yeah. Bad call, bad call. Small boobs look good with flat asses. Yeah, right. Big boobs with flat asses. It just has to it just has to balance. So here's the problem. Here's the problem. The problem is, is that our standards have changed so much that more and more of what is not natural looking. Now we think is natural. Do you know what I'm saying?  Now you have to go further and further for people to even notice because it's so accepted. Yeah. So accepted to do all these things.  Yeah, it's it's I mean, they stick out.  But you're right. Because they'll look normal for a picture because they're frozen. But yeah. OK, so you know who's like that. So remember the Jersey Shore? You guys watch Jersey Shore, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a who's. They all went crazy. They went crazy afterwards. No, JWoww. JWoww. She went crazy with the plastic surgery. Yeah. Now, if she's just in a photo, like not moving, it's like, OK, she looks normal. As soon as she starts moving and stuff and talking, like that doesn't look right. It looks like you have a mask on or something. Now, have you guys seen like good, good plastic surgery jobs? I've seen some good jobs. I've seen some. Yeah. I've seen it's to me a good job is one that you can't tell. You can't tell. It's very subtle. Yeah, somebody just, man, you look younger. You look good. Who's that country singer, Doug, that got the plastic surgery and now he's like, doesn't look like the same guy. Ilrae Cyrus? No, him too, though. But who's the other guy? Can't remember. No wind to fold. What's his name? Kenny Rogers? Kenny Rogers. Pull up his picture. Yeah, he's got like the wind blasted face. Bro, I haven't seen him. Bro, look at him what he used to look like and then look at what he looks like now and it's not the same person. Let me see this.  Really? Yeah, dude.  Who is it too? It's like Mickey Rourke. I was I was really like bummed out when I saw when he'd got a plastic surgery. When he did that wrestler movie, you could really he was like, oh, you know what though? He's still a great actor. Oh, he's awesome. But look at Kenny Rogers. OK, look at him in the bot on the very left, right? In the very, very left. And then you see what happened to his eyes in that middle one. And there's worse pictures. Yeah, give me like a before and after plastic surgery Kenny Rogers. Google that, Doug. It just doesn't. You need to help Doug with his googling. So you're like the Google master. You should tell him what to Google. Hey, guys. Google finger. Who are you? What did you say? I'm the Google master. What did you say on the podcast the other day? Look at it. Oh, wow. Yeah, it doesn't look the same. He actually looks kind of good. No, stop.  Look at, OK. Oh, you mean, OK, the left is real. Yeah, he looks better before. Yes. He looks better before. Oh, yeah. Because, yeah. I mean, he just looks surprised. Like, hey. I mean, he doesn't look bad before. No. You know what? Why did he change that? Well, bro. OK, this is what I feel for. This is what I have a little bit of feelings for an empathy for celebrities. You are valued by all your fans for your appearance, how you look. You're known for how you look, and especially kids, especially kid actors.   Doesn't it look like he just came back from some weekend retreat and now he's like a full-on cult member? Yes. I have the answers. I'm enlightened. Can you make me look surprised? Yeah. I get it all now. Yeah, you know, I mean, in the fitness space, you have extreme cases of this, too, with the guys that inject their arms and stuff with synthol. I was watching. So we've been watching this one series. I think it's on YouTube. But this guy was kind of breaking that down and the kids were watching it. They're really interested in it. And I was just kind of walking by. They're watching all these examples of guys with synthol and how ridiculous. They look like mutants. They don't even look like real muscles. It just looks like bubbles. Yeah, there was one guy. I think he was a Russian kid and he was known for it in his arms. And he had to get them all removed because the tissue died. So he had all his dead tissue in his arms and he had to get them drained and removed. Imagine how desperate for attention that you are to do.  You have to be so desperate for any attention that even if it's weird looks, it's okay, I just want it.  No, I don't think it's just like a attention from the opposite sex. I think it's just intention in general. Like you're somebody who's deprived of attention in general and doing something so absurd like that, even if 90% of it's negative attention, that's okay. It's like the kid who acts out, right? It's like the kid who gets no attention from his parents and so what he ends up doing. I have seen lizard man, he's all in. He's split his tongue. Look at me, deal with me.  No, I think you have a distorted view of yourself. So to them, they inject synthol and to the average person, like man, you don't look. It's like, okay, have you ever, I've worked with like really, really sick people. I don't mean sick in a bad way.  So you think it's that?  I think it's more attention. I think it's more that. You don't think they look at themselves and think they look good? Why is dysmorphia? I'm not completely disagreeing, but I do think that there's more like, it's more like the child who got no attention. It's more like the kid who got no attention growing up so he acts out to get attention. Even though he just needs love and wants the good attention, any attention is better than no attention and so I think it's more. You know, you would be surprised. He doesn't have good friends at home.  Yeah, right. Don't do that. Well, you would be surprised. A lot of these people, they hide themselves. They cover themselves. They don't want anybody to look. It's all about their own distorted view of themselves. Well, not the guy we're talking about. Not what we're talking about. He's proud of it. He's flexing all the time and showing himself like that, yes. That is so anti-like. It rubs me so wrong. Not because you're doing stuff to your body that looks weird or whatever, you own your own body. It's just because it's so anti. It's like, you want your muscles, like they're not, it's not muscle. It doesn't count. It's artificial health. It's like all the signals of... Don't act like you didn't think about calf implants at once. About what? Calf implants at once. Never. Yes, you did. No way. I know you did. Of course I did. I never. Of course I did. No way. Yeah, I looked into it. No way. Did you really? I did. You looked at the price and everything? Yeah, I did. What are the options? Like, what is it, material-wise and all that? It's just like boobs.  You know what I'm saying? Like a rounder, fuller. And a good doctor will tell you like based off of it. Put a nipple on the back of my calf. No, not like that. You know? I want titty calves. They're supposed to... I'd want bionic ones or something, you know? That's a catapult. Here's why I would never do that, because it's muscle. I don't care. It's like if it's not muscle and it's not strong, it doesn't make any sense to me. But I get what you're saying. When was it held for you? Oh, I was 20. Yeah, I was 20. It was right when I started making money. Did somebody say something new to you? That's it. What do you mean somebody said something?  Did somebody say something? I'll never forget when I got compliments on them.  I used to carry myself around like this all the time, like my shoulders all the way up, just to try and hide my bony shoulders, you know? Like, dude, I get it. That was something that I was always conscious of, like take my shirt off and be like, hey, guys. Maybe that's why you had ink. What's wrong with you?  You were just uptight all the time. Yeah, just super uptight.  I don't know, mom's always mad at my brother. Everybody. It's just this. Yeah, I mean, obviously I didn't do it. And for the reasons that you said, it's like, it's a muscle. Have I, and I had to ask myself honestly, have I ever truly went after it the same way that I have other muscle parts, you know? And I never cared enough to really do it. Now I did when I was competing. I mean, I gave my calves attention like no, like nothing else, right? Because I had to get on stage in shorts. And I was like, there's no way I'm getting up there presenting this ripped physique and then I have these terrible calves.  So. Stubborn fuckers. Oh, I mean, they were. I mean, I just, the amount of volume I had. And they got like, so the way my body type is, right? Have very. They got veiny. Yeah, they got just vascular.  No, you gained like a good inch. You and I both were having a good time trying to get our calf. Yeah, yeah, it was doing occlusion. When they're pumped and they're pulsating.   He's got big. He's done like calf raise like five times in his life. Never. Yeah. Have you ever done calf raise in your life? Be honest. Why? Why would I do that? It's a demonstration for like my client.  This is how you do these. I have no clue though. I've never done that. Yeah, but even I probably even got it wrong. It's like that though. The guy in the gym with the best calves does not lift his calves. Get out of here with that. It's one of those genetic body parts. But I will say this. Let's be honest. There's a good chunk of the reason why people think their calves are stubborn is that they don't spend the time on them like they do the other body parts. I'm guilty of that. I proved that. I proved that. You know, I definitely got to a point where I actually got goblins from it, believe it or not. So I know that. That's right. And some girl come up to you just randomly. No, I do. That's even better. I had a guy in a plane. I was getting off the plane. That's the best compliment. Yeah, an older guy too. Hey, man, calves are super impressive. Dude compliments weigh a lot more. Especially like an old dude. Like an older dude that you could tell has been lifting his whole life and stuff like that. Depends how he's looking at you though. No, no, it wasn't like that. It wasn't like, hey, nice calves, where are you staying at? Yeah, it wasn't like that. Your calves are going to go all the way up. You want to follow me to this bar? Yeah, no. Was it like that type of a compliment at all? But I mean, the amount of effort.  Like that's just the amount of effort to get them to, you know, like just better than terrible. It's not working. I train, I'm still trying to train mine, but they just, you know, it just as a kid, I almost never train them. I didn't have a calf machine. I worked out in the backyard and so it was all, you know, barbell dumbbell exercise. Well, you guys say that. I've definitely worked my calves, you know, like I sprint, I do jump ropes, like I, you know, very explosive stuff. Yeah, but I have to contribute. I did all that stuff. You know, I played basketball.  I feel you. I didn't do nothing for me. I'm just saying, it wasn't like, you know, I neglected them or something. You wore the strength shoes. I did. I did strength shoes. I did all this time. We actually, so I actually trained. My brother did that too. So the first muscle, ironically, right? The first muscle groups that I was training when I first got into the gym were calves. Because yeah, it was for basketball. So when I first started lifting, this is before like, when I talk on the show about like lifting, I consider that when I was like, 17, 18 and started, got my own gym membership. And then I started to care about building a body. But before that, I had, you know, 15 years old and stuff like that. When I was a freshman, sophomore in high school, I'd go in the. You do the dabble. All I would, all I would do is calf stuff. Really? Yeah, because I thought it would help me with my vertical inside playing basketball. And so that was the only thing I did, even though I didn't do a lot of it. I did that. I did strength shoes. And yeah, that shouldn't translate into anything. No. They looked terrible and they performed terrible. Yeah. They just look like some platypus out there on the basketball court. I was, I was, I mean, I didn't do a lot of exercise, but I was lucky enough to find the right information and then do kind of well balanced stuff. Lucky enough, more balanced than most people. I didn't just do arms and chest. I did everything else. But calves was, I didn't have a machine. What am I going to do calves on? Whatever, who cares? I'll just do squats. Yeah. That was my approach. Speaking of the old guy that gave you compliments, have you ever had that experience where you're like on vacation? Does this ever happen to you in Katrina? You're on vacation in the pool or whatever. And the like 50 something year old couple looks kind of, you can tell it kind of fit, come over. Yeah. After a few drinks, you're like, what's going on here? That's happening. Why are they acting so flirty? The couple hitting on you? Yes. So I, less with Katrina, I had a girlfriend before Katrina that I dated that she just attracted Swinger people. We would go out, I could think of three different trips that we went on that. Probably when you go to the bathroom, she's walking over them. Hey, if you could close my boyfriend. Yeah, maybe this whole time she was like a Swinger trying to close me. I had no idea, like, God, this is so random. Why is this every time we go out, we meet Swinger? You know, she's calling them and telling them, like, hey, we're going to be in Mexico down here at this time. Oh, you got to use close him. That's what you got to do. Yeah. No, that's the move. I was at a high school reunion and one of my friends, like a good friend, brought this girl. I had Matt, I thought it was his girlfriend. It wasn't his girlfriend, it was just a date. And so then it got me thinking later, like what kind of date? But like, she started hitting on Courtney and was just like kind of like slowly like, oh my God, I love your hair. It was like, just kind of touch your hair. I love it. I love how you smell. You don't look like you belong here.  And I'm like, ask my friend, he's just laughing. We're just laughing about it. Just like, that's terrible. But anyway, how'd you feel about it? Yeah, yeah, but also, you know, reconsidering.  I do feel like that's the move, right? You put, the girl's usually the one that's going to go approach it. They're the communicators. Guys are instantly creepy. Totally. It doesn't work when you have to have that approach. Speaking of trips and party, you guys are making me think of something that I've actually been meaning to bring up in the podcast. Ironically though, I can't, I'm not now, but I was last week. I think I sent a picture of it to Justin. I am totally digging the, it's called Red Stag, which is Jim Bean's Black Cherry and then Crown Royals. Oh, yeah. Those two, and I know we're not like big, outflavored, yeah, liqueur sort of version. Bro, they're not looking, they're working 70%. I mean, they're whiskey, for sure. Yeah, dude, it's just got a little, it's got a little flavor to it. I can actually drink it on the rocks, which I've never, they're delicious.  Well, I'm not doing anything right now because of my diet, right? So right now. You're following the Adam Navour diet. Adam Navour? Adam Navour. Adam Navour. Right, it's not, of course, as soon as I started posting pictures of nothing but meat, everybody's like, oh, you're following the Carnivore diet. No, I'm not. Dang. I am not following anybody's diet.  Yeah, he's including rice, okay?  Yeah, yeah. But it does have rice too. So I had, I've allotted like, you know, and yesterday I didn't do very much of any rice at all, but the day before that I had a cup of rice spread out throughout the day with some of it, just to give me some sort of texture of it. Because I don't think that's the offender, right? So that's the way I look at it, is I'm gonna. You got rid of everything except for the things you pretty sure don't bother. Yeah, I feel pretty confident that, and so far so good, like what I'm seeing, right? So I think that- You noticing already? Yeah, yeah, I already noticed my psoriasis doing better. I noticed, what I noticed that I was really surprised is I didn't think that my gut was inflamed. You know, I just didn't think I was just ripped right now. So I just thought, oh, I'm a little soft, fluffy right now. But literally the day after I did a full day. So I started it like midday over the weekend and then the first full day of doing it, the next morning I woke up and it looks like I had leaned out like 10 pounds, 10, 15 pounds. Now I didn't drop that weight. All I could think it was like, wow, I probably released some water of course. But then also I probably lowered some inflammation right away. So you noticed? Yeah, and the reason why I think it's that is because I also have been dealing with the golfer's elbow and that has already started to get a lot better too. So I probably had some inflammation there, probably had some gut inflammation and already it's starting to subside. So that's what I'm noticing already from it. And surprisingly, what I thought I would absolutely hate eating this way, it's not as terrible as I thought it was gonna be. And the reason why I think it isn't is I'm very surprised by how little cravings I have right now.  Adam Genic. Yeah.  Alio. Hear me out. It's not, I thought I would have a really hard time cutting out all the carbohydrates.  My workouts are weak sauce. Yeah, I'm weak. Like right away, I noticed like a dip in strength, like already the weight I was doing last week. Once you get over that, you're fine though. I like that too. When I feel myself get weaker, I'll teeter for a couple of weeks. I'm like, oh, I don't wanna get weaker. And then once I get over it, I'm like, whatever, I don't care. Then I'm on point. That's how I feel too. I'm very similar in that way that it's like, it's just part of the process. I'm not worried about it. So you were having this, what was this thing called, Red Stag? Yeah, yeah. But now you're nothing, no alcohol at all. Yeah. That'll mess you up. I've been doing that the last couple of weeks. I was just sharing it because I've been meaning to bring that up, that I've found these like two alcoholic drinks that I like. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you guys both a question. I don't drink that. I had a little bit yesterday actually. I had a little bit of wine yesterday because yesterday was the official book release. And so Jessica and I went to dinner.  And had a glass of wine and enjoyed ourselves a little bit. I didn't have Z-biotics with me because I only had one glass of wine. Do you guys use it when you have one drink? Or do you just use it when you have more? Yes. Okay, so you're- I personally wait until, yeah, I'm gonna have multiple just because for me it's, I mean, I don't really feel like a few of them, but I know like you guys a little bit more sensitive to alcohol. I am extremely sensitive to alcohol. And then I tell you what- Me too, because I had one drink and I could tell and I was like, I should just, because I thought to myself, one drink, what's the big deal? No, I feel even just one for me. This is the only reason why I'm even experimenting with alcohol like this. Like I would never, ever drink, have a hard drink like that on a Tuesday. Never.  Yeah, because I just don't, I don't sleep well that night, the next morning I feel slug, even from one drink. But now if I have that, I can have a Z, and that's what's kind of cool is like, and I don't need to have three drinks. I literally can just pour myself one good stiff drink on ice like that, have the Z-biotic right before, and then I could kind of sip on it while I could drink it in our hanging out stuff, and I really, Yeah, because I enjoy it.  One glass of wine, and I could tell my sleep was a little off, I woke up a little bit more groggy, and for me, it's my gut, right? My gut felt off. I had to take charcoal, which helps, but it's not like Z-biotic. So I thought, you know what? Anytime I drink alcohol, I'm gonna take this out. So my, I still use the charcoal if I do multiple drinks. So like, it's become- Start stacking. I am going to have a drink at dinner, or have, like I just mentioned, which by the way, isn't very often, right? It's, you know, maybe I'm doing, even in the last month or so where I've found these drinks I enjoy, maybe one time in the week I have a drink or something. I will have the Z-biotic. Now, if I have a night where we went out with Justin and Courtney, where we're gonna get down, like we're gonna have four or five years. If you're going with Justin for sure. Yeah, we're gonna have four or five years. Better Z-biotic up. Yeah, not only am I Z-biotic up, but then before I go to bed, I'm pounding water and I'm taking two or three of those charcoals. So that's kind of like my recipe to like make sure that I don't feel, and I feel great, dude. I tell you, I feel really, really good. Makes a big difference. It makes a huge difference. At least for someone like me who I think is so negatively affected by alcohol. I don't think everybody's like this. Like I think there's gonna be some people that hear this or try that out and they're like, oh, I don't really do it. It was a difference. But if you're somebody who doesn't drink a lot of alcohol because of the way it makes you feel, to me, those are the people that are probably gonna feel the greatest difference with a product like that, is that, oh, wow, maybe that's part of why you didn't feel so good and that's what Zebiotic is really helping. Well, so speaking of diets, you guys know how I like to increase my dietary cholesterol intake to see kind of what happens. When I do, I get stronger, right? So I kind of went to the extreme relatively recently. So now I'm up to about, this is that I don't necessarily advocate for this, although it's probably fine. But now I'm up to about 10 to 12 egg yolks in the morning. So when I go back and I make my shake after we work out or whatever. Are you doing just substantially? Are you just drinking 12 egg yolks by itself? Are you just eating raw like Rocky? No, so I'll do that sometimes. You mix it with anything? Yeah, so I'll put the, I'll put like organified protein there. So this morning what I did is I did, I brought a dozen eggs. So I do 12 egg yolks, water, and then two scoops of organified protein. So it's like 50 something grams of protein, tons of the dietary cholesterol, which if you look it up, it helps with recovery, muscle strength, all that stuff. Of course, at your own risk, raw eggs always runs the risk of- Salmonella. Salmonella, although the risk is actually quite small. I've never, nothing's ever happened to me. But I've been doing that and I can tell, every time I do it, I just get strong. Is it really strong? I actually really like raw eggs and shakes. It makes, it gives this kind of frothy- Well, as long as you're blending it with like a protein powder, I think that helps to kind of like the consistency of that's a little better. Yeah. Just the slimy- Yeah, no, I couldn't do just the eggs. Have you tried it? Have you tried just swallowing them? It's not bad. It's actually easy.  I did it for a long time. I just feel like you're okay- With taking down slimy stuff like that. You just gotta open your gullet. Open the gullet. Open the gullet, let it go down. And to make you have a- Make sure you have a glass of water. It's weird for Justin and I, you know what I'm saying? It's different. Hey, you guys try this. Operating manual.  Oh, that's, I'm sorry. Muscle memory. Anyway, but I love it. It works very well. There's some great articles. You can actually look up Dietary Cholesterol. You can do this. Google Dietary Cholesterol and Muscle Strength or Muscle Growth and read the studies. It's actually remarkable. It's actually one of the more dependable things that can cause muscle strength and muscle growth. So, but people freak out. I have something I wanted to talk to you guys about. I read this article yesterday or the day before. I think it was Basecamp who came out and said it. Basecamp or Coinbase. Oh, I saw this. Oh, you did. Basecamp and Coinbase have now made it a rule that you cannot talk about politics on an Ottawa. Dude, smart. Brilliant, smart. Okay, so this used to, I don't know if people remember, but this was like kind of the standard, you know? Like there was like certain things, politics, religion, death. Like these are things like as a bartender too, and I was bartending. You just don't bring that up because inevitably you're gonna get arguments.  And it's just like, why? This is deterring us all from just having a good time.  It's taking over our everyday lives. And you wanna ask yourself, why? Why is politics and everything? Because they spend a lot of money making that happen. You gotta remember that these political parties have very, very wealthy backers and sponsors. And so we know of the billions of dollars that they spend on during election year or whatever. What we don't know is how many news agencies are being pushed in a direction.  Just pull up Fox News and CNN on the same thing that's happening. And it's totally two different stories. How can they possibly be? Well, one is working for one part. Completely opposite narratives. It's so frustrating. Science has become influenced heavily now by politics.  Eating beef or meat has become a political conversation.  And what happens with that is you have a lot of money making people feel very negative about certain positions.  Here's what happens. Now people start judging each other. They start to argue. Things happen at work. Brilliant. It's brilliant that they said that.  It's really interesting. You know how I always talk about my analogy is that politics is sports for nerds, right? I feel like in the last, I don't know, four to eight years, they've done such a good job of capturing people that weren't into either one of those, right? Like people that were not politic people, people that were not into sports. They've literally forced it on us. I do. That's how I feel.  There's friends and people that I'm connected to that I know were not into any of this. Even myself, you know, I got sucked into it. Like I've openly talked on the show since we started that.  I mean, I have found myself, they've done such a good job of getting into social. Well, too, they've also used this phrase, like silences, violence, or whatever. It's like, if you're, you have to have an opinion. You have to say something. Like, no, not everybody has to say something. Actually, we prefer if you don't, right? I don't want to listen to your opinion. How about that? And it opens up companies. So once companies open up the door, like when they have this policy that's like, we'll listen to everybody. We want to make sure that we're ultra-inclusive. So make sure you say what your complaint is with them.  Like, what do I do? Like this, you know, what was that publisher that was, there were people trying to go on strike because they were going to publish a book from this author who has, you know, opinions that are different from their own or whatever. It becomes so strange. That was JK Rowling. Oh, that was one. Yeah, yeah, JK Rowling, they all tried to do that, to ban her books and stuff like that. It's like everything has become so political and one of the best things you could do for, in my opinion, as a company is, we're not, sorry, we're going to ban these conversations. No, I hope that spreads. I hope, yeah. You think it'll stick? You think that's not going to be a problem? What do you think's going to happen? You think we're going to see more companies follow that? Or do you think some of these companies are too intertwined? Too intertwined with the government already that they won't have an opportunity to do that? I don't know. I think of like Google and Facebook, like why wouldn't, and Twitter, why wouldn't they follow? Well, they've already set, see, the problem with those tech companies is they've already developed this culture. How do you reverse out of what they've already done? That's a very difficult thing to do. I think you have to do it. Especially they have social platforms where other people are on there. So, well, you can't talk about it at work, but then you can get on your phone and tweet it out or you can get on Facebook. They've encouraged it for so long that that's all part of their, like they want all their employees talking to each other constantly. No, I swear to God, read any article. And nowadays, you can read almost any article. And science, documentary, I go on Netflix and I watch documentaries. And just because I'm hip to it, I can tell like, oh, this is political, this is political. I was gonna watch a freaking documentary on the Amazon and it turned into this political thing or I was gonna watch this documentary on eating a particular way. Well, this now turned political.  And so that was one thing too that I was trying to address that with my kids. And so I don't know if I told you guys, but like Ethan's been doing music and he's been learning to trumpet. Dude, I played the trumpet. You played the trumpet? When I was a kid, yeah. Oh, cool, I got another little salamate. Yeah, I can only hope. But yeah, so he's been doing well with it. He's kind of struggling with whatever, but I was having a funny conversation with him because I was like, well, you know, your uncle, he used to play the horn, but he played it in a very unconventional way. Did I ever tell you guys this story? No, no, no. Okay, so we had this little horn. It was like a decoration piece, right? Definitely would remember this. And this brings up this point that I've been meaning to bring up the whole thing. This is the dark art. This is the dark art that he figured out, which I don't know if a lot of people know how to do this or not, but he literally, like you can belch on command, right? You can swallow air and then you let it out and it's the whole thing, right? So you can also do that with your butt. What?  No, you can't. My brother's living proof and honestly he killed me for bringing this up. Maybe he needs to get checked out. It was something. I don't know how he did it. He had some kind of control with it and he could like consume the air, blast out. So he has this little decoration piece. It's like a little horn, right? And so the funny thing, he'd get on the ground and he'd like bring his legs up in the air.  And then he'd put the horn there and he blasted it. And it was like, meer. Really? Yes, and the worst part is like we had company over one time and they're looking at it like, oh, I'm making a joke, put it right to their lips. Oh, I just died. I'm like, you have no idea where that's been. Oh my God. I feel like he belongs in America's Got Talent. I think he's got something there. So I'm like, now if you can actually capture that talent and then add notes to it. Dude, you gotta be able to like open your, that would be amazing.  That literally sounded like really. That's a very specific talent. It was incredible. And he could do it more than once. He could do it like all the time. Like just like you can swallow air and belt. I swear it was the same thing.   Part of you. It was a true talent. I'm a little bit jealous. That would be so like when you were just the guys. You know what I mean? Think about all the opportunities. The party trick. Like right now, we're finished with the podcast. Dude, you could literally have an only fans just about. Bro, yeah, no, just even think about this way. Very simply, like we're done with the podcast. Oh, thanks everybody. Just walk by Adam and just right by his face. Any time. Just drop dust on command. There's so many options. And you would all have to give up. Cause at some point you try to get me back, but I'm always loaded. You know what I'm saying? That's a pretty. Just chambered. I'm gonna take this back to business talk because I saw something else. You're gonna make a business out of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Yeah, I'm telling you. Justin switched us over to farce. I'm gonna switch us back over to business conversation. How about on it being acquired? Oh, you don't leave her, right? You know Lever? Yes. You know Lever? Lever, Lever? Yeah, a huge company, massive company. They own all kinds of brands like Dove and I think even Dollar Shave Club they bought out. The Axe Body Spirit. Well, they're a public company, which means they're going to disclose at some point what that looks like. Yes, I'm wondering how much they're curious. I cannot wait. So it's so interesting to me because we have somewhat intimate knowledge of that company. And I think that we've expressed that, you know, when we first went over there and kind of saw how things were operating, we're like, ah, we're very impressed with what we saw, especially for how cool it is. Very cool brand, right? Looks cool and stuff. It's connected to Joe Rogan, makes it even cooler. A lot of people love Aubrey Marcus, like it's cool. But as far as the way it's operated, I think that's what we thought, oh wow, this is a lot of stuff that needs to work here. And from what I understood, it wasn't doing so great for the last like three to five years. It was not, when you talk about great performing supplement companies that we talk about or we hang out with our friends over at Legion or Ganify, I mean, those companies are just every year scaling and doubling revenue and stuff like that just because they're doing so well. I don't think that's what was going on with it. Now, I do know that they sold right after this pandemic and they do have online courses. They do sell equipment. And so I'm so curious is did somebody, whoever is responsible for making that transaction happen, did they get them after a peak year during a pandemic? And did they fool an investor going, wow, this is hard times for most fitness people. This company is elevating and- Well, the equipment side was definitely not the appeal. I would venture to guess because those margins have just never been good unless you find some hack and way to be able to do it better than everybody else. Yeah, but during COVID, if you sold equipment, you were making some money. You're right, it was very limited. I guarantee people were paying pre- Cause that was what I remember when I criticized when they came out with the whole Marvel line. Yeah, South America. Yeah, my theory was the licensing fee for that alone, I can't imagine you could sell enough equipment just to pay that, right? So that was my speculation on it. So, but to your point, Sal, and that's another thing too, the kettlebells are overly priced, the weight plates that are done in the Marvel overly priced, but during a pandemic when nobody could get any weights. But you gotta imagine a company like Unilever that owns, I think like 50 companies, it's a huge company. They've gotta have some pretty good people there that went and said, let's look at your PLLs the last five years. Okay, so this goes back to our point before that we were talking about with, you know, not, okay. So if you go into, if you're them, right, and you're looking at their last probably three years at P&Ls and let's say they were kind of hovering or whatever, and then all of a sudden they have this record breaking year when most fitness companies struggle, okay. A majority of fitness companies last year had their worst year, especially if you were brick and mortar, but they have probably their best year. They have a banner year after coming, and so maybe they see that as like the resiliency that this business has, like, oh wow, look at this, they're cruising around maybe, and my guess, okay, I have no idea by the way, and my guess is there's somewhere between a 50 and 70 million dollar company, like as far as they're- Do you think they got bought for that much, or that's what their revenue- That's what I think they were cruising at before P&M. So what do you think they sold for? I don't know. Maybe over 100? 300 million maybe. How much did the Primal Kitchen sell for? Remember, he sold that to Kraft. That was quite a bit. I think it was like 100 something million. Yeah, that's interesting. You know, the thing with supplement companies, people don't realize this, but the margins aren't phenomenal. Terrible. If you're like, if you do a good job, your margins are like 10, 15%. If you're doing a great job, most supplement companies' margins are less than that. So what does that mean? That means you're selling $10 million with a product to profit $1 million. You know, a million dollars in sales would profit you $100,000. That's why it's not as impressive when you hear numbers like I just said, like, oh, they might've sold for $100 to $300 million. It's like, that sounds like a lot, but the overhead to produce that kind of money is extremely high and the margins are terrible. It's like the strategy is to start a supplement company, grow it, and then sell it. That's how you get your payday, right? It's to sell it to another larger company. Right, and I don't know if the, you know, they're the leaders though with the, like Alphabetano is huge, right? Like Alphabetano, they're like one of the, Yeah, that was still their flagship product. I believe it's still, I think on Amazon, it's still ranked like number one or one of the top three new tropics that are out there. So I think that is interesting to a company like that, that sees that market growing, and they have that and they have a whole wellness brand, they know wellness is growing, and they have a banner year during pandemic when a lot of these fitness companies are struggling. When you're seeing their stuff at Whole Foods and Retail, I see that stuff there all the time. On it? Yeah. Oh, at Whole Foods? Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, Alpha Brain, I see Alpha Brain there. I didn't know that. I think that's all I see there if I'm not mistaken, but there's always, Alpha Brain's always there in the packets, the little packets. Yeah, so I'm gonna go out and say that if I had to speculate on what they sold for. You'd say more than 100 million. Oh, well, if they did less than, I mean, 3X EBITDA would be, that would be, if they sold for 100, that means they only had a $30 million company. You think supplement companies are getting 3X EBITDA? Yeah, really? Oh, yeah, that's what you should expect, especially if you're scaling. If you've been scaling over the last three to five years, you had a banner year like that. EBITDA, was it earnings before interest, taxes, debt, assets, something like that. Yeah, so if they did that, if they got sold for 100, then you would speculate they're probably doing 30 to 40 million. So if they, and so I'm guessing that they sold somewhere between 150 and 300 would be my guess. Was their total sales. Oh, you mean that they sold for? That they sold for. Divide that by three would give you an idea of what, and again, we're speculating, I don't know for sure, but that's kind of what it would look like if they did that. I wonder what direction Unilever is gonna take them, what that's gonna look like. I know, yeah. What does it look like in terms of, yeah, I'd be really curious to see like what direction on it's gonna be. Well, now, to your point about them being a massive company who goes in and sees that, maybe this, so if this takes off and does really well, what I would speculate that they saw was, okay, they went in, they had this banner year during one of the hardest times, they're profitable, they're doing well right now. And when we look at the operations, we're not impressed.  They may go, okay, I could go, I could fire 60% of these employees, bring in our, Automate everything. Bring in my CEO, bring in all my players, and we will get this thing running like a well oil machine. So that'll be interesting. That could be a thing, right? They could have gone in there and said, oh, wow, look at all this wasted, like these people, what do you do here? You know, while you're working? Well, that was our experience. I mean, that's, when we went around there talking to people, I would ask these employees, like, oh, hey, what do you do? And they had a hard time communicating to me what they did for coming. Yeah, well, and the thing about on it's like, it's all based on cool, you know? Like, so how's that gonna play into being unilever? Like, how are they gonna keep this whole, like, edgy hip, you know, ayahuasca? Well, say what you will. I mean, if they sold for big money, that's a big success. Oh, yeah. That's a big success. Yeah, I mean, no matter, sure. I think it was, had the Midas touch. I mean, Joe Rogan touched it. I mean, Joe Rogan, what company has Joe Rogan touched right now that isn't doing phenomenal? I mean, he is the Oprah of today. That was like, almost every company their goal was to get to Oprah. Every book. Yes. If Oprah had you on her show, it was the best of all. That's right. If Oprah could touch this thing, it's guaranteed to go. Joe Rogan has that kind of influence that if he touches a brand right now, it's almost, it's hard for it to fail. And so maybe they see that, right? They see that, okay, it's doing well, but it has lots of opportunity to do better if managed correctly.  I would just imagine though, these investors with this, you know, Unilever's gotta be a billions of dollar company, right? I would imagine that they're smarter than just looking at one year, right? That they're looking, and I know what you mean. They would consider it like, oh, this was a tough year. They did well, that shows some good stuff, but they've got a long history. You gotta look at all the PLLs and go. They must feel the need that they have in their portfolio, like somewhere like, oh, we wanna get into this direction. That's how I feel, and maybe you see it as, you can get it for a discount or a price. You know what I'm saying?   Lots of money. A lot of money, a lot more money. So maybe they see that as like, okay, that they've cornered a market that we need in our portfolio. There's lots of opportunity to do it better. They had some resiliency during the pandemic, which is good during this weird time that we're all in.  It really is amazing. Being into supplements for as long as I have, it's really crazy to see this industry turn into what it has. Supplement industry was nothing back in the day. It was like, it was nothing like it is now. Now it's these are billion dollar companies, companies that are just crushing. Supplements have permeated every part of our life.  It's like, where do I go? You gotta go to the corner beehive or whatever supplement store and then maybe they'll have a couple things and that's it.   EAS? EAS took it to the next level. Yeah, Weeder was the one of the first. They got it in like Costco. Yeah, like you have Beverly International, Weeder. Weeder to me was the first to see, like, you know what I think of Weeder and this is, I don't know, hopefully this is disrespectful a little bit, but. Yeah, careful how you're trading. He's Weeder. I know, kind of tap out of UFC. Like they saw a huge, okay, huge growing space and attached a t-shirt line to it, they explode ahead at this moment. Well, Weeder's for the reasons why it grew. I mean, Weeder started, he used the magazines as way to promote his athletes. So he brought Arnold over. I mean, without Arnold, let's be honest, would Weeder even have done what they did, right? Brings Arnold over, puts them as magazines, uses the magazines as ways to promote his contests, his athletes and then use them as ways to sell his supplements. So he was one of the first, he was one of the first companies to really do that. And then you had like, Beverly International is very old, Twin Lab came out. Remember, Twin Lab was a video. Well, my point though of talking about Weeder, where I was going with that though, is it's, and what I mean by that, because I know it's a kind of a bad parallel that I'm drawing here, but is that he, in that community, he did really well. Like EAS took it to the masses to me. He didn't take it outside of it. Yeah, nobody, no Joe Smoh knows. No, Bill Phillips took it to the next level. Absolutely, Bill Phillips I think was the first guy to have like a hundred million dollar supplement company. He came out and he had Body for Life, which was a best seller. Everybody was doing it, sold a supplement. He came out with supplement review books, right? So these books would tell you about what supplements were good. Of course, the supplements at the top were his. Not knowing that he was making them. I mean, very, very smart marketing, but yeah, EAS was, Bill Phillips was the guy that really wrote the book on what you see now with supplement marketing. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the podcast real quick. Head over to mindpumpfree.com, see if you can find some guides that will benefit your fitness. By the way, everything on there is totally free. So we've written a lot of e-books to help people through their fitness journey, everything from fat loss to muscle building, to even reducing pain. It's mindpumpfree.com. All right, enjoy the rest of the podcast. Our first caller is Kyle from Wisconsin. Hey, what's up Kyle? How can we help you? Hey guys, first off, I just wanna say thanks for everything you guys do, especially for someone like me that has been looking for quite a while. And I know that I do things wrong, but I don't know why. And you guys explain kind of the reasons that things don't go correctly for like weightlifting and stuff. So like my deep squats, I totally started doing that now. And now I actually see things in my quads and calves, unlike I've ever done before. So thanks for all that kind of information first off. Awesome. But my question is, so I've been doing your guys's suggested mini cut and mini bulk. And I do it at three weeks, three week intervals right now. I noticed when I do a mini cut, I lose about five pounds in the first couple of days. And I didn't know if I was supposed to readjust my macros kind of after that initial weight loss that I'm guessing is from water or do I keep just going with my previous macro breakdown? That's almost certainly water, especially when you go to a cut, right? So you're reducing calories. Probably one of the places that you reduce calories is in carbohydrates, for every three grams of carbohydrates your body takes in, it pairs with about three ounces of water.  So I would guess that most of that is water weight. And so long as you feel like you're seeing good progress in those three weeks, like you feel like you lean out, I wouldn't readjust or calculate your macros. I mean, how has it been so far?  I just started a bulk then again this week. And so I only did the one cycle of cutting. And then I started this bulk. I actually bought you guys your shredded package. So I started to bulk with the first phase of the aesthetics package. And the cut went great. I lost an extra couple pounds after that initial weight loss of water. So I think it went great. And now I'm on this bulk. I didn't get the same water retention that I thought that I would have when I lost it for on my bulk. Is that something that I would be getting usually too? Or is it? Yeah, you know, there's a lot of variables there. And now here's the thing with the mini bulk and mini cut kind of protocol.  And we advocate for doing this for shorter periods of time. So rather than doing like three or four months of just cutting to inject periods of slight bulks in between to prevent metabolic adaptations where the metabolism slows down. It helps preserve muscle. And it actually results in more fat loss. And on the reverse, rather than doing just a bulk for 12 weeks, injecting some periods of time in there where the calories are lower, keeps the appetite up, helps with digestion, reduces inflammation, and reduces fat gain. But here's the deal, at the end of the day, what's your ultimate goal, right? If your ultimate goal, let's say you follow the shredded summer bundle, which I know has maps, aesthetic, maps prime, those maps hit, I believe some other programs in there, right? There's, let me think, aesthetic prime hit and the intuitive nutrition guide, right? So you've got at least, if not more, 12 to 16 weeks of exercise programming in there or longer, so if your ultimate goal at the end of it is to build muscle, then you wanna be in a bulk more than a cut. So what you don't wanna do is do three week cut, three week bulk, three week cut, three week bulk. I mean, you can do that, but you're gonna end up kind of bouncing back and forth and kind of maybe slowly progressing over time or staying the same. What you wanna do is figure out your ultimate goal. Is it to build muscle? Is it to burn body fat? If it's to do burn body fat, then I'd say two thirds of the time, staying the cut, the other one third, do these kind of small shallow bulks or vice versa. Otherwise, like I said, you're gonna kind of end up where you started because you're going calories, surplus into calorie deficit and it all equals out. Okay, so like if I, so what these phase is, I shouldn't switch between cult cuts and bolts per phase. Like I shouldn't kind of base up around that. I should just kind of do like a three week cut in a one or two week bulk. It's kind of what you're saying if I'm trying to lose body fat. Right, yeah, if your main goal is to lose body fat, then yes, like, and you don't, and it's not, and by the way, it's not wrong what you're doing. Okay, I just wanna make that clear. Like what you're doing is okay, but to Sal's point, if your goal is more to get shredded and get lean more than it is to add 10, 15, 20 pounds of muscle, if that's more of a focus, then you just wanna spend more time focusing on the cut and then you'd have shorter bulk. So I would do something like a three one. So I would be cutting for three weeks and then I'd run like one week where I would do a calorie surplus. Then I go back to cutting for three weeks and I'd run a one week surplus just to break that up. So if that's your goal, now, and just like he said, vice versa, if my goal was mainly just to put on size, I'm already relatively lean, I would bulk for three weeks and then only, and then reduce calories for one week. And again, what you're doing is not wrong because over time you're gonna lean out and build muscle going the direction you're going. Sal is just suggesting that if you have more of a focus in one area than the other, then you'd wanna spend more time in that if you wanna see more results in that direction, if that makes sense. Okay, great, yeah.  And then after listening to you guys, totally changed that thing up. And because mentally I couldn't cut enough before and now I think this is a, like I can easily change my eating and stick to us, stick to how I'm bulking or cutting. So this was just the best thing I could have learned from your guys' show. Awesome, very cool, well thanks for calling in. Yeah, thank you guys. No problem. Yeah, I think there's two things here, right? One is people tend to, if they have a goal, they go so hard in that specific direction that their bodies really start to adapt, they start to run into problems, right? So cutting for too long. At some point the body starts to look at muscle and say, do we really need this? Maybe we should pair muscle down. You start to kind of slow your metabolism down, right? Hormone issues start to become a problem. If you bulk for too long, you can start to gain lots of body fat. Now you're starting to get diminishing returns. So going in and out of these goals really keeps the body progressing. But yeah, if you have a specific goal, more of your time needs to be spent there for sure. Yeah, you do have to have an overarching sort of goal with that so that way you can direct it in that fashion. I was actually wondering, I was gonna ask you guys while he was talking of, if say my whole goal right now is to get lean, like it's summer and that's my main focus. I know to kind of go weave, go heavy on the cut, but then also add a shorter time for the bulk. But what about just more focusing on maintenance instead of the bulk? What's the advantage of going up a little higher?  So let's say you're- What he's doing, by the way, right? He didn't say it, but it's written up in his question that it says he's just going like 10% over. Yeah, so if your maintenance is 2,000 calories and your cut is 1,500 calories, then you might have four or five days at, I don't know, 2,100 calories. Just a little bit above, exactly. Just a bit above to fuel muscle and strength and to prevent that slowdown in the metabolism. I do wanna make it clear though, like what he's doing isn't necessarily wrong, right? It really depends on where the person is at. So if you were already in pretty good shape, I actually think that's a great way to eat, right? Like let's say he's- It's basically you're doing maintenance, but not being maintenance all the time. He's just hand-gilling. Right, and doing that, he'll lean out a little bit and if he's not over-consuming a lot on the bulk and he's doing a very moderate bulk, he should add muscle a little bit every time he does that then he should lean out every time he goes down the other direction and actually probably shape his physique up really nicely. Now I would eat some, that's kinda like how I eat, right? Because I kinda keep my body fat percentage in pretty much check. So I don't need to go on an extreme cut or an extreme bulk. So I do something similar to what he's talking about right now, but if you are, you know, you got quite a bit more body fat percentage that you need to lean out and that's more of a focus that I agree with you that doing something that's more 3-1 or running a much longer cut and then going back to a bulk for a shorter period of time makes sense so you see more results in that direction. But what he's doing is not a bad strategy either just for overall health and getting a little bit leaner and adding a little bit of muscle. Our next caller is Jessica from BC Canada. Hey Jessica, how can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? So just a little background on me and my story. So I used to be a chronic overtrainer and under eater. As a result, I gave myself some pretty bad gut issues and also lost my menstrual cycle for about six years. As a result of that, I had such low bone density that I ended up breaking a bone. So that was kind of my eye-opening turning point. So that was about two years ago. I totally reworked my brain around how I train and how I feed myself and my nutrition. But in the process of that, I fell in love with multiple types of training. So I started out more like body building type training, like split training, moved into more of like functional training you could call it, lots of kettlebell work, almost like CrossFit, barbell, free weights, all that kind of stuff. I'm also a spin instructor, so I love to obviously the cardio aspect. Another thing is I tend to enjoy like battle ropes, hit training, burpees, all that kind of fun stuff. More recently, since listening to you guys, I got into strength training, more focusing on that kind of fore-rep range and on my main lifts. So I guess my question for you guys is, what program of yours would you suggest for me? I do have a kinesiology trainer background, so I do tend to write my own programs. And I just can't follow one. I start doing it and then I get in the gym and I'm just like kind of all over the place. So I need some help. Jessica, do you want us to be very direct and straight about this or do you need soft gloves? I need direct. Okay. So I think spinning CrossFit's a terrible idea for you. I think you should be as far away from that as possible. You've already mentioned that you had issues with that in the past. You're flirting with that right now. You're an alcoholic who's hanging out at a bar. Yeah. There's no reason why. And the program that's best for you is something like PowerLift. It's a program that's completely focused around your performance and strength and not around your body image, not around anything of high intensity whatsoever. It's literally just about getting stronger. So if I was gonna recommend one of our programs, what it would look like, it would be like a PowerLifting type of program. And I would ask you to get rid of your spinning class. I would ask you to avoid the classes, avoid the battle ropes, all that crap that doesn't, you don't need that. It's the complete opposite of what you need. Yeah, I would say, echoing what Adam's saying, I'd say take your fun, it's really hard, right? When you're in that, you have that state of mind. It's gonna be something that you're probably gonna be challenged with, probably forever. It's very common with people that work in the fitness space. And so one of the best strategies is to take this focus that you have. And it sounds like you have tremendous focus on this particular feeling that exercise provides or maybe the results that you're looking for. Take it and move it to something else because just not having it isn't gonna work, it's gonna come back. So what you might wanna do is take it and focus on strength. So you can become very fanatical about working out hard, doing lots of exercise, dieting. Take that and see if you can direct it towards, can I see how strong I can get? Let's see how strong I can get with squats, with deadlifts, with bench presses, with overhead presses. Now that's not where you're gonna stay. Okay, so I wanna be clear, if you get too crazy with that, that can become a problem as well.  And it's gonna allow you to eat in a way that you'll probably benefit from because it's hard to get stronger by eating too few calories or by under eating. Okay, so once you're there, here's the deal, okay? I'm gonna be very straight with you.  I highly recommend you work with a counselor or a therapist and talk about this. This is a behavior that's gonna continue to, you're gonna have to continue to work on. It's gonna plague you. And the more stress you're under in life, the more challenge that life provides to you, the more likely you are to move in that direction. And you probably already noticed that pattern.  I work out more. I work out harder or I can control my diet. That's what I can control. Everything feels out of control.  I'm gonna be disciplined or whatever. However, you spin it on yourself. So focus on strength. You take that crazy focus, put it on strength and then work with someone once a week and talk about this. This is not something that's gonna fix itself. It's something that's gonna require a little time. You know, I'm never gonna tell somebody they shouldn't do counseling because I think everybody can benefit from counseling. But I also think she's the type of, sounds like a type of person that you have incredible focus and discipline. You just need to shift it. You just need to shift it away. That's really what you do. Yeah, for sure. So I actually have gone through counseling and all that kind of stuff in regards to like my body image and how I like go about nutrition. And I've definitely come a long way.  It will be something that's kind of inside of me forever but I've definitely, my focus when I train isn't even on how I look. I want to train to be able to like just feel like a badass in the gym practically.  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I think that's why, you know, Adam's original advice of power left. I think that's a good fit, you know, for where you're at right now. And mainly the rest periods, I mean, in the recuperative side of that is really measuring that, you know, being disciplined and really leaning into that a bit and seeing how that then, you know, progresses your strength. I think if you can kind of really get in that mindset of what's, you know, what am I doing, you know, for my body the most to get it to recuperate, to regenerate, to be able to produce more power, you know, in your lifts and to be able to measure that, track that, because I think that being busy is great but, you know, directing that in a healthy fashion is gonna be, you know, part of your success. Well, Jessica, you sound like a great, I would love for you. So Doug's gonna send you over a map's power lift. So he'll send that over to you and you're the type of person I would love to hear back from you as you go through it. So please keep us in the loop as you go through it. Do your best to stick to just that and get good at that. And I would love to hear updates from you as you go through that on your bench squad deadlift and know how that whole, that process is going for you. Okay, amazing. All right, thanks for calling. Thanks guys so much. No problem. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the reasons why I mentioned counseling with her, and I figured she probably had done this in the past, and she's like, oh, I'm so far away from that. But the question is, I'm struggling. I need to do all this high-intensity exercise. So the self-awareness is, I've had this issue in the past, the self-awareness is not, this is an issue that I have right now that I need, some maybe some of that help again. And it's, look, you're in the gym, you're right, you're an alcoholic and you're working in a bar. Very, very challenging. Exercise is good for you. So you don't wanna tell someone to not exercise unless it's an extreme situation. But it's gonna be that. It's gonna be that constant conversation because what'll happen is she'll work out, she'll follow power lift, she'll rest for two minutes or three minutes in between sets, and then she'll be like, I need to feel that intensity. I need to add some more. I need to go crazy. Well, that's the challenge and that's the discipline that, you know, look at that as the training. You know, if she can really shift the focus more on that aspect of it and not so much, you know, the tangible of like, I'm lifting more weights and, you know, I'm getting all fired up from that, more like, you know, how to really read your body in the signals. I love a client like this because she's got, she has the education so she understands, right? So she knows, she has the self-awareness that she's already put herself through counseling. Think she's already made leaps and bounds in the right direction and she knows where she needs to be. And you take someone like that that's extremely disciplined and you just channel that in a different direction as far as their focus. And I think she'll see tremendous results and have a ton of success. So I love people like this because I feel like they're much easier than somebody who has been making excuses for decades of why they don't want to take care of themselves. In some ways, it could be challenging. I mean, I actually had a client who went from an anorexic who went and he started abusing anabolic steroids. So they went from one direction, it was a guy. He was an anorexic before. And then he channeled his focus to building muscle. But then it went in that direction, it went crazy and extreme. It can happen with performance too. Well, yeah, you're right. You're absolutely, but she's also aware of it. So a lot of times people like that that make a shift aren't aware of their issue. They just, oh, I need to get away from this and I'm gonna go a different direction and they go one extreme to another. So, and that's why I said, I'll never tell somebody they don't need to be counseling. I mean, everybody I think would benefit from seeing a counselor or having a professional to talk to, all of us would, right? So I'm never gonna say not to do that, but I also think that she's in a good place, especially since she has that experience, she is self-aware, she has the education. She's got a channel in a different direction. Our next caller is Steven from Alberta, Canada. Hey, Steven, how can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks a lot for having me on. Yeah, good. My question is, how do you recommend I proceed with hip movements when I have a mechanical issue, not a mobility issue?  And that has a pretty pronounced shift in how I do a lot of my hip movements, particularly back squats. There's a really pronounced jog as I come up or a single-egg RDLs or like banded pistol squats. My body weight really shifts to the one side to compensate. So, and I know it's not necessarily mobility issue because I'm really good at, I can squat, ask the grass, I can, I'm really good with the 90, 90s. So I don't know if you guys think I should maybe do a really strong regression or what? Yeah, okay, so essentially what you're saying is one joint is built. It's anatomical, not mechanical actually. Yeah, anatomically built. Okay, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah. You know, I had a client once who had one leg which actually shorter than the other. Yeah, I've had that before too. And I mean, one thing we could have done is right, we could have had him just exercise with both legs with a block underneath one foot. But what I did is I did everything unilateral with him and I would suggest the same thing for you. I would do almost all of your lumbel pelvic hip exercises as unilateral. Step ups and lunges and single leg exercises because if you put both legs on the ground, you're gonna get some compensation, which is gonna happen anyway naturally because you walk, right? So you walk with both legs. So there's some compensation going on there. But the unilateral stuff will allow you to train each side independently without the other side influencing the other side, essentially. So I would focus almost entirely on unilateral exercises and I think that's where you're gonna find your best results. Yeah, I was gonna definitely like echo that same thing because if you focus on that, you're gonna be able to then understand too all those little micro compensations and things that your body will tend to have in a split stance or on a single leg type of a situation. And so to be able to slow down and isolate that and really work on stabilizing and gaining control is gonna be everything. So to really go slow and then add where you feel the most instability, I would really like hone in on that and like even add in some isometric tension there to reinforce it and to really like start communicating a bit better with that process. So first of all, you can definitely build incredible legs, never doing a bilateral squat. So you can do Bulgarians and lunges and single leg exercises all day long and build incredible legs. So it's not a huge loss to not be able to do a bilateral back squat ever again. So I would train you the exact same way. Now the only thing that I would caution you is you're gonna have obviously one side where there is some discrepancy and maybe a little bit weaker and you have a one side that's gonna be stronger. Make sure you lead with the side that's most challenged for you. So the side that you are weaker in should dictate how you train the stronger legs. So sometimes when you push somebody in this direction to go all unilateral work and they got one side that's so much better, they keep pushing the weight in that direction, that should always be the second leg that you train. So always stick with the weaker leg and do things like Justin's saying, focus on stability and isometrics and then mirror that for the other leg. Even if you could do two, three, four more reps or 50 more pounds, it doesn't matter that way you stay even as you develop your legs. Now as far as mobility exercises, if you don't have Maps Prime Pro, we'll send that over to you. You can still do lots of mobility exercise because here's a deal with these movements, these correctional exercise kind of mobility movements. You're working with your body's own range of motion. You're trying to connect with your body. So your body's gonna dictate what that looks like, right? So two people's 90, 90 is gonna look very, very different. Then you may have one side that looks very different from the other. That's okay, it doesn't matter. The goal is to challenge your range of motion and connect to those new ranges of motion regardless of one side versus the other. Just out of curiosity too, Steven, when you got the x-ray, was this something you did with a chiropractor or a doctor, where did you get it done? Yeah, so I had an assessment with the chiro and he recommended I get the x-ray and then we kind of, he did a few of his correctional exercises, but I haven't been seeing him since. Yeah, okay, so that's a great question, Adam. Yeah, yeah, that changes his question. Yeah, why don't you get another... Second opinion. Yeah, get another opinion, work with a sports medicine expert or somebody... I'm gonna go ahead and make sure. Doug, would you gift him the private forum also? So, you know, one of my favorite functional doctor chiropractors is Dr. Brink, and he's, for the most part, I don't like a lot of chiropractors. There's not to say there's not some good ones that are out there. Just this happens to be like chiropractor 101 is to tell you you've got some sort of, your one leg's a little bit longer than the other of this and you need to come in and see me and I'm gonna adjust you and get you straight and right and on the one with the supplements that also helps a lot. That's right. So, and I had a feeling that this might have been where you heard this from. So, one, I would get a second opinion. Like Sal said, two, we're gonna let you inside the forum.  And tag Dr. Justin Brink. That's right. Tag Dr. Justin Brink in there and tell him what you've been told and what you've seen and then see where he takes you from there. I have a feeling maybe you might be just okay. Okay. But I mean, I did see myself on the X-Roy that there is a... Sure. A definite asymmetry. Sure, sure. By the way, we all do. Nobody here, nobody has a complete equal left to right side. Nobody does. Yeah, but it could also mean something. It could mean nothing. That's right. So, yeah, so do what Adam said and then see what happened. And if that ends up being the case, then the advice we gave earlier still stands. And I don't know for sure, because I don't see you. I don't know who this was, but I just, the reason why I asked the question is this is a very common tactic that chiropractor... It's a bit of a hustle a lot of times. It's very, very common.  And then we're gonna let you in the forum so we could discuss more about it. So just quickly circling back, you recommend completely eliminating bilateral movements? Not until you have somebody else give you another opinion. I would say, yeah, figure that out first. And if that ends up being the case, then yeah, do that. Sounds good. All right, thank you. Thanks guys, appreciate it. No problem. Yeah, the, it's actually not that common to have the left and the right side be different enough to where you have to completely change your training unless there was an injury. Like if somebody tore something or broke a bone. You're in a car accident and shifted everything. Yeah, but more often than not, like you said, Adam, you have a chiropractor going like, oh, here we got some, look at the spine here.  Or I can see that your SI joint here is very different, therefore I have to treat it. Yeah, that's right. Sometimes it's muscular, you know, like for example, you could have a shorter leg, not because your bones are shorter, but rather because one side is tighter, your QL, right? It's a muscle that attaches at your hip, could be shortened on one side and correctional exercise could balance that out. Now you could also have a shorter leg because the bone is actually shorter, like the guy that I talked about earlier. I look at it like the tension of rubber bands and like holding everything in place.  And so if anything is like a little bit off, a lot of times I think that just manually- That's right.  However, most of the work is gonna be, you know, adjusting muscular- That's right. And a lot of times it's literally just a stability and strength issue that's going on here that's causing some sort of a shift in the squat. Yeah, more often than not. Yes, more often than not, it's that. But then when you go and see someone like a chiropractor and do that, now again, I'm not, I have no idea, but and I could be speaking at a turn, but in my experience, I took a lot of clients like this that we completely resolved the issue by getting them more stable and strong and more mobile because it wasn't something that crazy, you know, and everybody is not, is perfectly symmetrical.  I tell you what, I've had, I can't tell you how many clients I had that would go to a surgeon because of joint pain and the result, the advice from the surgeon was almost always surgery. Oh, your shoulder hurts. Well, they know how to fix things with surgery. Yeah, oh, this is what we saw. There's a little bit of a tear here. I can scope that, I can do whatever. And almost all these people through proper exercise ended up not having to go get surgery and you see this with chiropractors sometimes as well. But again, we could be wrong. It's just, it's not that common to have a really anatomically different SI joint from one side to the other unless there was like maybe a major injury. Well, he also didn't lead this conversation with, oh, I've been dealing with all this pain and all this issue and so then I went and to go figure this out. Right. It was like, I went and saw a chiropractor and told me I have this. Surprise. Yeah, mm-hmm, so. Our next caller is Grace from Wisconsin. Hey Grace, how can we help you? Hi guys, first off, my question is, well, I'm a truck driver and so I drive upwards of 11 hours a day depending on if I'm picking up or dropping off trailers. And so I'm driving and sitting all the time. And usually this doesn't happen but if it's like a stressful day like dealing with traffic or snow, which actually no snow for right now but it's upper mid-west so you don't never know that. For high winds, you know, I get pain in my neck and in my shoulders and in my back and I was just wondering if there was something I could do to counteract that. See, I've been driving for upwards of 12, 13 years, seven of those being truck. And you know, I just was, I do have Prime and I have Prime Pro but I looked over them and they were kind of like overwhelming and confusing. I didn't know where to start but I was like hoping to maybe do something to counteract that. Like usually it would probably be like something that really fast like that I could do like when I go to a rest stop to use a restroom or something like that. Yeah, no. So Grace, I trained years ago some clients that ended up staying with me for a long time, they owned a company that did what you did and they drove trucks quite a bit and this was a common complaint, right? They would get pain in their back.  Sitting too long, he's just brutal in the body. It is and so here's the two pieces of advice I have for you. Now one is yes, definitely when you stop you should definitely get out and do five minutes of exercise and you can bring bands with you on your truck and you can do some light rows, you could do some cable chops, you could do some light squats just to kind of move the body or you can pick some movements from Maps Prime Pro. But here's the problem. The problem, a lot of people might not realize this but sometimes truck drivers, especially when you're in a time crunch, you don't stop for a while, right? You stay in there for a long period of time and so there are some movements you can do while driving. Now you talked about your neck and your upper back and your lower back. So I'm gonna give you a few suggestions, okay? So the first one is gonna be for your upper back.  So you're pushing your head down up and pulling your shoulders down and you're trying to elongate and you wanna do that for about 10 to 15 seconds at a time. So we have the seated version of our zone one test which I know that that's a common thing too with our Prime programs is that it's a little bit overwhelming because there's so many different things to address but that's why we also tried our best to kind of condense that in webinars. And so if you haven't checked those out yet like Adam and I both, Adam did want a little bit more focus on Prime Pro. I did want a little bit more focused on the compass test specifically but what Sal's describing is, you know what I had Doug kind of do against the wall. And I think that that's just one that you wanna repeat that as frequently as possible based on, you know, the position of your head and leaning forward and grabbing the wheel and it's a really very stressful position you're placing your body in. Yeah, so and then there's one more movement you said you're lower back. This is a very easy movement and it usually helps people with low back issues as they're driving. You can practice pelvic tilts in your chair. So this is where you're sitting down and so you start by arching your back and then you go to rounding your low back and you're just moving your pelvis back and forth and what you may find is the first few reps might be a little painful, might be a little stiff but just doing this for five or 10 minutes typically will loosen up the lower back. So just those two simple movements that I gave you while you're driving if you do them, you know, once every hour can make a huge difference. So I actually, I do what you just said Sal but all in one thing. So what I do, and this happens to me a lot if I drive for longer than two hours if I fly on a plane for more than two hours this is how I feel.    Yeah, exactly.  I always note like it and then I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna keep that I'm gonna keep tension in all those keep pushing the head back rolling the shoulders, tucked down squeezing the butt I'm gonna intensify that for about 10 seconds then I'm gonna relax and I'm gonna go through all those points again and I'm gonna do that as much as I can while I'm driving or while I'm flying until I feel complete relief. So that's what I would do while I'm driving and then I would do some specific moves when I stop it like a truck stop to keep it simple quick because you don't have a lot of time. I believe I've seen you before and I think you do have bands and you take them with you where you drive is that right? Yes, I have a lot of equipment I have a adjustable dumbbell and a band and I have a cable machine. Okay, yeah. I think I've seen you post and tag us before. Do you have a suspension trainer? Just... Oh yeah, I do have a suspension trainer and you're upper Midwest it's been like below below like sub zero temperatures but now it's like finally and getting into the seventies and sixties. So I was excited to get back into doing the suspension training again. Yeah, I mentioned that because I've had a truck driver that I got into suspension training was able to hook that up and anchor that to the truck itself. And so when we go on like truck stops was able to do a lot of moves right there in place alongside so bands and suspension trainer I would think would be a decent fit for your lifestyle. So W's zone one, which is in maps prime. So I would do the move and that's a zone one move where you press against the wall or press against the truck in this case. I would do W's with either the suspension trainer or with a band. And then I would do the hip thrusts get down on the ground for a minute. Just those three moves. I would do those for five or 10 minutes at a truck stop every time you stop between that and then what Sal is saying right there you should get a lot of relief. Yeah, great. Thank you so much. Yeah, no problem. I love your podcast. I listened to you all the time. I have lots of time to listen to stuff. So my sister turned me on to you guys last year. So we talk about you all the time when we're on the phone. Awesome. What you guys discussed. Thank you so much for your support and thanks for the work that you do. You do a very important job for the country. Thank you so much for you guys. And I read your book. I listened to it twice already. Oh, wow. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Grace. That's a tough job. I know. With health. I don't know if you guys have seen the numbers on truck drivers and their health and it's one of the most challenging jobs to do. The food that you eat is often on the road. It's so sedentary. You're sitting all the whole time in your And when you get done, what does not sound good is going and hitting a gym for an hour. No, your body. Like you just want to crash. You're exhausted. You're exhausted. That's the worst part.  To muster up the energy to then be physical which your body really needs and is craving for is difficult. I would say one of the hardest positions to stay in shape that I've trained. Like when I think of clients that I've trained quite a few times.  Working with them is pretty. Here's the thing. Every hour, if you do like five minutes of just even squeezing a ball or working your shoulders. It's like a turbo boost. It improves your performance with your job as well. Not just improving your health. Our next caller is Arondu from Arizona. Arondu, how can we help you? Hey, what's up, Sal? What's up, man? So I have a question for you guys. I guess I've always been prone to injuries. Is the nice way to put it. I currently have a shoulder injury and a hip injury. But I mean, I think I've heard every joint in my body. Just I don't know why. I guess from having the wrong movements is what you guys say. So I heard myself doing, I don't even know what I was doing. Honestly, I think it was dead lifts maybe. Maybe sled pushes is right now. What's really killing me is my hip flexor. I actually couldn't walk for a few days. I iced it and then it was good. It's been a few weeks since and now I can walk but I'm scared to go back to the gym. I've just started doing a Maps Prime Pro. Now there has been one other time that I started doing that and it felt like the injury actually came back and it was doing, I had thrown out my back and I was, I think I did windmills. Windmills and it hurt my back again.  Like, should I rest or should I jump back into Maps Prime Pro? It has been a few weeks and I can walk now but after like a full day of the work, I know my hip will be inflamed. I've been trying to do, I do 90, 90s, you know and my thoracic spine mobility is not the best because I'll wake up and it's really aggravated. So yeah. Okay. Well, okay, so a few things that I'm hearing.  You've injured yourself quite a few times and you are trying to figure out how to prevent that from happening again. And then the second thing you said was I did a mobility movement but I hurt my back doing it. So what this tells me is a couple of different things. One, I think you should focus on improving your movement patterns for a long time. I think you should give yourself at least six months of just learning how to move better. But there's one other thing I'd like to add which is start to listen to your body, right? So can you hurt yourself doing a mobility movement? Of course you can. If you push yourself past the point of your control and your stability and your mobility. So what that means is you're gonna have to approach these things a little bit more carefully and err on the side of caution, all right? So when you're doing these movements, ooh, that feels a little bit tight. Okay, don't go that far. Find the edge and play with the edge and don't go past the edge. But I definitely think you should make this your entire focus for at least six months, okay? Cause the pain going away doesn't mean you're done, right? Oftentimes when you hurt yourself, there's a lot of things that happened until you hurt yourself. So just because the pain goes away doesn't mean that the problem has been solved. I'm hearing a potential strong anterior pelvic tilt. That's what it sounds like to me. When you feel the hip flexors really inflamed and tight like that, you got low back stuff that's going on. Have you taken the maps prime zone test? Have you done that? I haven't done the zone tests. I know since I had injuries, I kind of just jumped straight into maps prime pro. I mean, I would encourage you to do the test just cause I'd like to see where this breakdown is happening the most. So an anterior pelvic tilt looks like where your hips are rotated. It almost looks like you're sticking your butt out a little bit and you have more of an excessive arch in the low back. Do you know if you have this? Yeah, I've heard you talk about yours. I've kind of been trying to fix my gait cause it feels like as soon as I wrote, I mean, to fix it, I kind of just, you know, brace my core I guess and rotate my knees and that'll fix it. But I mean, I can only remember to do that like for 30 seconds and I'm sure it goes back. I'm just unaware of it. But yeah, I do have one. So yeah, what I want you to do is to lay down on the ground on your back, bend your knees at about 45 degrees and then see how much of a gap you have between your low back and the floor. If you can reach all the way under there with your hand all the way into your forearm, you probably have this very similar to I do. And some of that is core control, right? And core strength, so working on that. So the back presses on the ground and then of course like doing like the hip flexor deactivator exercise itself on the YouTube channel. But I would go through the prime zone test and see where you have the greatest challenge. If you see that when you go to do like a windmill, like you have a hard time performing the movement with no weight or anything, just performing the movement, then I would stick with all the exercises and fortification sessions that are around those zones. So more than likely you're gonna have breakdown in windmill and more than likely you're gonna have breakdown in the squat. That's what I'm guessing from what I'm hearing. And Maps Prime actually guides you in like what movements you should be primarily doing. And I would be doing mostly that and any sort of training I'm doing would be focused around mobility and stability type training. Yeah, I would definitely regress. It just sounds a lot like, you know, you really need to get in tune with body control and really like take your time with each joint. And so Prime Pro is great for that in terms of understanding joint function, understanding your range of motion, where your limitations lie. Sal kind of talked about the threshold. So you're gonna find sticking points.  So it's too loose or it's too tight and too restrictive. And then there's a pain signal. You need to pay attention to all that. And then find that threshold, try and stay close to that threshold and really squeeze your muscles, squeeze your body, try to connect to that. So then now you can start teaching your body that you have stability. You have regained that ability to, you know, really control your body in that position. Then we build off of that. It's really not gonna be advantageous for you to focus on, you know, adding load to any of these movements for a while. Okay, so are you guys are saying I should do Maps Prime Pro and Maps Prime? Maps Prime, do the fortification sessions that are in the program. That's your workouts. Do the tests that are in there so you can find the best movements for you in Maps Prime. And then use Maps Prime Pro to supplement with joint specific movements. And do this for a while. Give yourself a good amount of time where you're just focusing on this because it sounds to me like it's gonna take a good six months before you can get back into the more heavy traditional resistance training. And then even when you actually start back into your resistance training, I would caution you to not be really pushing the weight, right? Really, I would do some stuff like Justin was suggesting earlier, like isometric stuff and really controlling the tempo, slow and control, like you just need to, your focus needs to be around control, stability, perfect the form, a lot of unilateral type stuff. So when you do transition out of Prime and Prime Pro movements, I would, and you start to get back to like traditional weight training, I would do a lot of unilateral stuff. I would do a lot of stability control. Don't think about loading the bar like crazy. Think more about perfecting the form. Raps literally don't matter to you at this point. Like it's all about quality and intent of what you're doing with your body. So if you can get into that mindset, you're gonna be a lot better off. Okay. All right. So I think what I'll do is I'll probably, so I had already told myself this, but cause yes, you guys are hitting the nail on the head. It feels like I hurt myself like really bad. You know, last time I was benching, I hurt my shoulder and I couldn't move it. And I think a month later I was already benching cause it felt better, but obviously I heard it. So like Sal said it, I guess I have to go longer than when it feels okay.  I really just want to focus on my mobility. And it's good to know that I can now so intertwine the prime with prime pro. Excellent. Yep. All right. Thanks for calling. No problem. Yeah, that's a rough one. I think people think that when the pain is gone, the problem is solved. Everything's okay. No, you've solved the problem enough to get rid of the pain, but the problem is probably still there and it will cause pain again. You got to go past that point. Yeah, what's the root of it?   Like it's hard to say without really seeing the way he moves. I'd be able to give him way more specific answers of like, I want you to do this exercise and this exercise based off of watching him move, but having him try and articulate what he feels or thinks is wrong and then us try and troubleshoot and guess what we think is wrong is really, really difficult, you know? Because when I hear really tight hip flexors, I hear someone's low back, body, and all the time. I default, I think, anterior pelvic tilt. It's, you know, close to home for me. Those are my issues. And I know too that if I were to go load windmills in a position like that with an anterior pelvic tilt and rotate like that. Right, and rotation is another one that's very much of an exposing type of a movement to any like inadequacies, you know, up the kinetic chain. So, you know, it's just those things in the shoulder injury, all these types of things. We just need to address a lot there. Totally, look, if you like what you hear, you gotta go to mindpumpfree.com. We have some great guides there, and they're all totally free.  We have guides for personal trainers. Again, it's mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram, so you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. Somebody listening might think, oh, that means the first month or two nothing happens. No, no, no. We said the scale might not move. That's right. That doesn't mean nothing happened. Remember the earlier example of where I said, person who does it wrong loses 10 pounds, but five pounds of muscle, five pounds of fat, so they're just smaller, same body fat percentage. What we're talking about is the scale doesn't move, but


This February is African-American History Month. This year's theme is Civil Rights in America. Although African-Americans served in every war in its history, the Navy was not officially desegregated until 1948. In the 1970s, C. N. O. Admiral Zoomwald created fleet-wide policies and practices to offer more support for these sailors. He developed these changes to address bias in recruiting, assigning, and promoting African-Americans. Today, African-Americans serve in nearly every position the service has to offer, whether at sea, undersea, in the air, on land, or in space. The Navy History and Heritage Command said, in the foreseeable future, there will be no more first, for the day will come when a black man or woman will have served in every Navy billet. For Defense Media Activity, I'm Petty Officer, Jamiah Cabrera.