I'm going to call the meeting to order at 6.08 as part of reorganization. We'll do a much more broader reorganization next Thursday, but in order to get to a warning, which is our main piece of business, we need a chair and a clerk. So I would invite any motions for a chair for the Army School Board. I nominate Chris, if I can. Second. First, you're willing to? I am willing to serve. Are there any other nominations? All those in favor of Chris McVeigh? We have a quick discussion. Yeah. Last year, Brian, you had some concerns. Did you feel like it went okay with Chris's chair? And are you happy with this? I'm fine. Okay. That's it. Awesome, thank you. All those in favor of Chris McVeigh, the chair, we're on the board for next year. Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Christine. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations, sir. Thanks. So next story of business is to welcome our visitors and thank you for attending us in coming in and there will be a short meeting, but thanks for showing up. And next is to elect a clerk. Are there any nominations for a clerk of the Romney School Board? Any volunteers? I'm fine with being the clerk, I don't mind volunteering. As long as I know what the responsibilities are. Allison. I was not, I don't think I was like the model clerk here. I nominate Katie Chabot for clerk. Any other nominations? Any discussion? Other than thank you, thank you, thank you. All in favor of Katie Chabot being a clerk? Say aye. Aye. Aye. So we are on a time limit in Amy. Do you, what do we need to address? I would love for us to take care of staff concerns as they have traveled. And then I would love to hear your final verdict on the building use stuff. Okay, great. So part of what we're going to talk about tonight is the principal search committee and we received a letter from our staff members asking that we consider hiring a third party outside consultant to guide the search, is my understanding. And since we received that letter today, we'd like to just hear from you if you wanted to share. The bit, you know, why you're asking us to do that? Just, I guess so that there's the highest confidence from all the stakeholders in the process that the process isn't getting sort of, you know, off and sort of on angle one way or the other. And because, you know, we're really feeling, the staff is really feeling like we need to move as quickly as possible so that the applicant pool is as rich as possible.  So the sooner that we can start looking at the applicants, the better the options will probably be. Do you want to add anything about that? No, I hear four of that, but something on a little different vein. So I'll wait till you're done. Okay, so those were the main thoughts that went into this particular letter. You know, we met, you know, just the other afternoon, after just considering just how things were at that point. So a lot of people felt strongly about that. Okay, so why don't you go ahead with another? Oh, so the pair has met today to pick our representative and we picked Krista Danu. But we also, Chris Malone, who is our behavior specialist, had voiced an interest in being on the search committee and kind of got caught out in limbo land because he's not a teacher, so he wasn't considered with the teachers. He's not a member of the community and he's not a para. But we all felt very strongly that he needs to be on the board. He works, the committee, he works very closely with the principal. We've come a long way in our discipline in two short years and to not have his input, I think would not be a good thing. We felt very strongly about that. So we would like you to consider putting him on the search committee. Thank you. Any important questions for Chip or Tam? I brand it first. For outside consultant, do you have something in mind in terms of outside of central office, outside of our community? Is that, do you have a little bit more of a? I think we felt like it would probably be best if it was somebody that actually sort of does this for, that's what they do. That's what they practice. That's what they offer as far as the skill set goes. And we know that that might not be cheap. But it was something important enough. We really wanted to bring that to the board. I suppose there could be somebody within the community that has that skill set. I don't know if there is such. People discussing it yesterday didn't feel as if going outside, looking for a non-mutal sex resident was an absolute, but all of us that work in the school system, whether it's up at the central office or in the buildings, we've got a lot on our place just in terms of work. But the other thing is we really, our vision is focused by the jobs that we do. And somebody that doesn't have to see it from the teacher point of view, doesn't have to see it from the central office point of view, but can hear and listen to those points of view and help us listen to each other better would be probably very facilitating. And can you tell us what the overall consensus is that the teaching staff or beyond that? The people that met yesterday afternoon were teaching staff, but we run around the building to see the parents who weren't in the meeting. But we run around the building to just sort of report out to them. And I think the parents are pretty up to speed on what our thinking was. OK, that's true. So one of the things that mentions in the letter is the importance of having a neutral party. And just thinking about the process as being the process and the structure is going to be the way the structure is in terms of the hiring committee. The process of going through the vetting process to a certain extent, I would imagine, is going to be similar to how it was done the last way. The recommendation will be made by the committee to the superintendent who will then recommend we're not to the board. So what I'm trying to understand what the neutral, sort of this idea of a neutral party, what exactly does that mean to you guys? Because I feel like no matter who is involved, for example, if we're going to hire someone, and Bill has actually pushed for this approach a few weeks ago with us. And we were concerned apart for the cost. And one of the concerns that I had as I thought about it was if there's a recommendation to us by the superintendent of a person to hire to do this work, we go through sort of a similar process that we did last year, goes to the same channels of how a person has offered the job. Where's the neutrality coming? It might be different than what another process would be. I think the main thing is because over the last three years we've had some challenging climate issues and challenging trust issues. And people are still, I guess they still have a little PTSD for going through all that. And I think we just didn't want to have to worry about the facilitation of the process starting to become a personality kind of thing. I think the role that we're imagining, and Bill, you can speak to this, it's a facilitator role. It's not that the person exerts authority over the members of the committee or advises them on what they think the best decisions should be. It's just that for us to be able to focus on our responsibilities as a committee and think hard about the candidates, it'd be nice to know that the person who is being our facilitator doesn't have a dog in the game. What's that? An axe to grind? An axe to grind. A dog in the race or something like that. So I would add that in my seven years of being superintendent here and my four years of leading principal searches as a curriculum director, I have not had the experience where superintendent goes against the recommendation of the committee. And I think that that's really bad for a candidate if you do that as a superintendent. Because you set up a process. And the process is set up right. The person that's best fit for the community is going to come out of that process. Sometimes that's limited because of the pool of people that apply. And that's really the biggest piece right now because time is of the essence for those of us in education. And the teachers, when I talked to you yesterday, I came up just to say, hey, you talk about them selecting themselves. And then they asked me some about the search candidate. And I said, the biggest thing I'm worried about right now is time. So if facilitator doesn't need to be the chair of the committee? They pretty much are acting that way, Chris, because they're running the process. Just like if you run the process for this board meeting. OK, so I was going to say, because if the chair was different than the facilitator, there'd be a power sharing or authority sharing role. It might be more cumbersome. So I've never experienced that being different. That the person that's facilitating it. I mean, they're one, they're facilitating. But if they're a good facilitator, they're doing it in a way to get all voices to the table. And they would just help us order time tables. They'd keep us, they'd remind us of things that we got really enrolled in some particular aspect of considering candidates. Later laws. Yeah, they would keep the process on track. I think my only, I mean, I hear the concern, absolutely. The only sort of concern that I have in terms of timeliness is what it takes to find someone who is a facilitator and whether then we're setting ourselves up to actually delay our opportunity for posting and then going through the hiring and interview and hiring process. So that's like one of my bigger concerns is that to find someone and then those candidates, I'm not sure how long that would take. Right. But there was someone identified, correct? And then we talked about another person as well, or you guys did, recently. And I wondered if that there's any more conversation about that and if the teachers would have any input about that person. So I think we're just in the interest of time. We're going to have that, I think, we'll have that discussion as a group. But let the staff members go and address what Amy's concerns are because she also has a time issue. And then we can come back to the search committee, just a time issue. But there. I just wanted to confirm that my experience with corporate governance was very much along the lines of having a separate facilitator and chairperson makes a difference as far as the ability of the chairperson then to participate as an active member rather than also having to coordinate facilitation. Yeah, an outside facilitator, and Franklin and the Central Office has done it, they're not. But Jen and Kelly, they're neutral, they're facilitating, but they're not voting on the process. Question? In that situation, let's say that we get our committee together, we've got the facilitator. Would it be the standard operating procedure or protocol that the committee members would elect from amongst themselves, somebody to be the chair? But the facilitator would be. I think I don't see that we'd have any problem with that. Any other comments at this point? OK. Thank you very much for coming and sharing your thoughts with us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. Amy, given our time factors, you need decisions on the building use, specifically around insurance and charging fees. Who and under, it appeared on the form that you were leaving, that there was quite a bit that was principal discretion, and I really wouldn't prefer it to be that way. And you know what this, the changes that I was thinking about, this was just an old form for folks. But in terms of the insurance part, we should talk about that because I don't think the lack of insurance should be a stumbling block for a community member to use, to participate in using the building. I just need, I would appreciate having a direction for us. Direction from the board as to the risk tolerance that you would like to shoulder. So I was just, and this is the discussion point, we made a pretty clear distinction last time between for-profit groups and non-profit groups. And I'm wondering, right? We specifically only spoke to AAU the last time that I'm aware of, unless. We made a sort of interim decision to address a pressing need with the idea that we would come back and create a more blanket. OK, so I would propose for discussion that in terms of requiring insurance that we make a distinction between for-profit groups versus non-profit groups. And then making further distinction within that whether it's a community, like middle sex community group versus an outside community group as to whether or not we only require insurance. Because correct me if I'm wrong Bill here, is that if we had a group that came in or individuals that came in to the group and were using the facility that if there was an issue of injury or something else that our blanket coverage would address that. It would address that. Our insurance company has told us if there's a group that has insurance, we need them to sign us on as a co-insurer. Under their policy. And I would just get, because I know I'm going a little further than what you asked, but I just want to say this. The non-profit is not a distinction I think that you should make. There are many non-profits. Vermont has the highest concentration of non-profits that make profit and are able to cover themselves and take care of themselves. And they take advantage of school systems. Okay, so then what's a workable criteria that we have where we're going to require someone to have insurance versus non-insurance? And that's why our insurance agents giving you the advice that they gave me to give you which was that you don't have insurance for all people that come in. That's what our insurance agents do. Of course that's what they want us to do. I understand that. No, no, that's interesting. I mean, no, you're right. I just communicated. Yeah, right, okay. So, you know, it's a back to that risk piece of having folks come in and use the building and having that piece. So it's right to what Amy said. It's a risk tolerance of the board and what level do you want to do that? I can't calculate you some number of how to make that risk tolerance decision. It's going to be a feeling frankly from all of you. So let's start with them. Can't get too analytical about this. Who would we require insurance from? The group wanted to use the building. Who would we require it from? I think that someone who's going to be making a profit is an easy one because they're in a business, they're in a business, profit making business and insurance is basically part of their responsibility. So maybe I can help you down the road a little bit. Sure. If I'm in the Morris Town School System where I'm a board member and an active member and a couple non-profits for kids, thanks. If I want to use the outside grounds or the inside of the building and I have a non-profit status, I have to show insurance. So I've got a little billy coat club that I was ahead of until last year and I had to get everyone signed up through New England Nordic Association because they would cover our club with insurance. That'd be able to ski on the grounds. And so people have more access than we think sometimes. If I were thinking about someone who said, let's just use the middle sex, the group that's talking about Newsy and coming together, let's suppose that they may not be as an established group. So this is where some of that judgment comes in but I also understand Amy's question because she's asked me the question and I said we need to ask the board this question about the level which we ask people for that piece. If they're sitting to have a meeting that might be something different. I know we don't, the Vermont Insurance Trust that most schools that we don't have recommends very stringent policies for most, by 80 to 90% of schools in Vermont are part of that for people using the building to be covered by them. So I think that you, if you would say maybe it's a middle sex group that's part of something affiliated with a town and how you determine that affiliation. That's why I said it's more of a feeling than it is a calculation that you're gonna be able to get to an analytical decision tree. How much, how long in advance do most people book one, is this like a next week or we want this next month? It varies. So there's people who want it close up. There's people that are waiting right now for this decision, frankly. Historically in the past 10 years, outside of what happened with what's next, middle sex, who uses this inside and the grounds? What's the usage? Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts, yeah. Girl Scouts. Wednesday night, men's pick up basketball. I think there have been book groups. There have been music lessons that folks have used the facility to support. AAU. AAU. What is that? This is basketball. Basketball. Little league. Little league. Inside? Oh, that's right, right in the gym, right, okay. So little league. PTOs, this is the mean series. Yeah. So yeah, we're concerned that they're actually a non-profit. Yeah, okay. Because national PTO. There have been some, I think there's been an occasion or two where the kitchen's been used to create food for a wedding or an event like that. I think that has happened over the years, not a lot, but occasionally. So like private community matters to me? I also think that we need to consider with the kitchen stuff. In particular, our nut allergies and making sure that we're taking appropriate measures there. There's some schools in our district, I believe that actually don't allow it. Yeah, no, we have to give them a lot of most of our schools. We don't because of the peanut and other nut allergies. Level cleanliness, if it's contaminated, you need to go to, the expense is quite high. So I'd say that would be the only, the other thing that I would flag. So I feel really conflicted about this because there's a large part of me that thinks the function of our school, like our school is stronger and better the more people come here and use it. And I want our community members to want to come here and to, like the more events that we have, like those are just more ways to strengthen the ties and help kids get here and make people more comfortable and then encourage parents to come to the school and all these good things kind of happen from that. And I'm also offended that we have become this society where we are just, you know, everybody's constant. I mean, I have to think about it and work all the time. Like who's gonna be, you know, who's responsible for this? And so I find that offensive. And so there's this part of me that wants to be like, let's let people use it. We have insurance. Let's let people use it. And then there's this other part of me that feels like I should probably be more responsible than that. So what comes to mind is, could we potentially say that if you are associated, like for instance, if your group is or can be associated with a larger group. So Bill Coakley can be associated with New England. Okay. Thank you. And basketball, you know, Boy Scouts, Girls Scouts, obviously they have an obvious link in association. Then you have to have insurance.  And otherwise, I mean, we could say people have to have insurance, but on a case-by-case basis, if they come to us ahead of time, they can get to the board, not make it not the principal's problem. So they have to plan ahead and they could, we could release them from that. Or we could just go with the, if you have, if you can have an affiliation with a larger group, you have to provide your own insurance. And if for smaller groups, things like the PTO, well, obviously I don't think there's a, some larger league of PTO groups that could provide insurance for them. So that feels prohibitive. There actually is. There's a national PTO organization. So do we know if our PTO wants to insure? Because I'm not gonna ask that one person to come and have a meeting with herself. I mean, that's crazy. And so the other part of this is fees. And I guess I feel the same way about fees. I actually think that we should have a blanket charge. That's, that's reasonably, that definitely covers our costs for everything. But we should set up a specific amount of money. Maybe when we take in those fees that goes into a certain fund where people can come here and they can say, look, we want to have this event or we have this event, will you pay for part of it? And we have specific money set aside to for people that, for groups that are deserving in our minds or that don't have the money, don't have the funds that we would then essentially credit them that back. But it's, it's off the principal's plate because it's not her having to make that decision. They would have to come give us a little spiel and we can refund or pay ahead for their fees if we want to be more like risk-averse, I guess. The fees to me are not a risk situation. It's cost of employees. And it's taking away from the school. All right, so you're saying, thank you. We shouldn't, if the fees aren't that, it's just for available, we shouldn't have to subsidize that and the cost of that. Beyond providing the schooling, electricity, and things like that, we don't have to charge that. But for cleaning fees and things like that, we shouldn't be responsible for cleaning up after a group that is using the school. Well, but we talked about before, like there being a cleaning fee and somebody said, well, what if they leave it really clean? Do they get that back? And so there's all this gray area. That's where I'd say my recommendation to you as a superintendent is to be exactly like, there's a cleaning fee. I'm sorry, there's a cleaning fee and that's what it is. So what about like our PTO? Do we charge our PTO a cleaning fee? That is a, there's certainly a indirect benefit to our school and our community by making the school accessible. The PTO I think has a very direct benefit to our school. Right, and that's what you do. So that's why I would make a distinction there between opening up for Wednesday night basketball or Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, things like that. Because PTO really, I see it as kind of kind of a school organization as opposed to a community organization. And so I would make a distinction for that on that point. So would that be individual groups who would make that distinction forward? Do we just put a few in there and call that it? Like can anybody come to us and say, we actually think we directly benefit the school and we'd like to be relieved of these fees? Is that a doable thing? They could probably come and say that, but I think we'd have to have pretty strong criteria so that we're not constantly, people come constantly and then saying we want exemption so that we don't get into more legal trouble favoring one group over another because I don't think we want to get into that position of saying, oh, for some not really clearly defined reason we're going to waive your fee, but we're not going to do it for this group. Because then you get into just constitutional issues that as a public entity that we don't want to be doing with that thing, it's better to have a very clear, clean fee applies across the board. I agree, I just don't see where the, it's hard for me to find the clarity in there sometimes. If there's groups of middle-sex students, if there's somebody getting together to do whatever mentoring with middle-sex students, well that directly benefits the school, benefits those students. There might be a distinction though of whether it's, I don't know if there are any clubs because my kids are so young, but whatever they are, if there are clubs or things like that, I feel like that's a school activity, that's not a separate group that's asking to use the school. So do we not charge school like, so for groups that are school groups, do we not charge those? I would say not, yeah. Not to charge them. Like we used to have a homework club, if there was a homework club, we wouldn't say we don't charge them. If there's a chess club, we don't charge them. What about if students from other schools come in to participate in the chess club here? Well we'd have them pay, but not our own dues. Physicists at least. I'm just trying to think like, how do we make strict rules when it's so great? Like a student activity like that, chess club or band. I mean we used to have bands that would get together. That would be a group activity that I think would be directly related to the program. And a benefit to our students. So that would be something that I would say. Charging and cleaning fees or anything like that. And I think maybe the distinction is if it happens what is recently within school day, as opposed to a weekend, where you have to have someone, the custodian's already on staff. Maybe that's a distinction we can make. Okay, so what have we come up with? We have come up with everybody pays except groups that directly benefit, groups that are directly comprised of Romney students. How do we describe that? So then that's Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts cross them off the pay list, because they're all our kids, right? I mean, but they're not a school club, but they're comprised of all of our children because Montpelier has its own. So where is this coming from? Like is it because of what's next middle sex that now you're getting inundated with like, like has this been? Yes, we've absolutely had an uptick in requests for the building. Yeah, that makes sense. And then, but so for PTO, for Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, the basketball group, prior to that, have they all signed this? Like is this something yearly that they have to sign? Yeah, they fill it out, et cetera. Got it. Thank you.  Right. And you tell me, in our conversations, the student stuff is pretty easy to understand. That's not a hard distinction. Where it gets into is, well, and what's next middle sex? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I'd like to come and use the building for my ex-use, but I'm a private citizen, but you're trying to use this as a community center. We hear you, there's times we've had damage done in the school after that. So it's not that anyone wants to do that. No one's intending to do damage. It's just the use. I mean, that's just what it is. It happens. You know, no one's trying to be bad. So it's how do you, and what Amy has been wrestling with is how do I say to folks, this is where the line is of you need to do this. And that can make some folks in the community upset. Yeah, no, I'm completely empathetic to your situation that you're in. We're trying to, this is a community resource, and I also know, and I say this, because I don't like giving the insurance information, but I've got to give it to you as a board, because I know that in any rural system, the school system is the heart of the community and wants to be used for multiple events, and I want to see that done. I just want to find some guidelines that help us do that, but also allow us to do the main mission of the education and make sure we keep it. You put a lot of resources into this building. What damage has been done with this building? We've had holes in walls. We've had drawing on walls when there have been events in the gyms. Sorry, I didn't mean to point you to the gym. Wasn't me.  And I think it was just, frankly, rough housing without supervision. One of the things that happens, and I've watched it in concert nights, and it's no one being bad, it just happens. It's like, who has charge of the kids, and the teachers think the parents do, and the parents think the teachers do, and it's like, wait a minute, let's get this all organized a little bit. I remember that was one of my first, like way back in education. I was like, oh, this isn't working like that. So that, it just happens.  Yeah, or time for the people that work here to get that right. A hole in the wall can be, depending on what it is, it can be a hundred dollars, it can be a thousand dollars. And a thousand dollars isn't a huge wall, but it's just, it's like, what's behind it, what do you have to do to get it set up to get it fixed? Yeah, because this is a community member. I mean, I don't want any of those expenses incurred at the same time. I'd rather have that and have the building open to the public than not be able to hold events here. I think those are gonna be few and far between when those things happen, and if it's a few hundred dollars here and there. I'm willing to pay as a taxpayer. I agree. So how do we make guidelines out of this, of what, I don't know if we're interviewing or not, but what guidelines can we, like we need descriptions of some sort? I just have one more question. Oh, please. I think I asked this before, but I'm gonna ask it again. When you guys did this over in the bond, there was just this blanket and understanding that this would be a community space, but, so was, I'm concerned about that, and I didn't even live here then, but I'm just, what? Oh, I think, you know, I think moving toward and opening the school up to community activities doesn't mean opening it up to community space, but responsible community space is what I'd say. And the fees that we're talking about are pretty minimal in terms of gaining access, and it is a separate, we have a school budget that is dedicated for educating the students first and foremost, but encouraging community use. So to the extent that any of the cleaning fees are just offsetting whatever the custodian cost is, we're not talking about custodian costs necessarily that are just already being done, it's the extra, and it pertains particularly if we have events on the weekend because we have polls on when and open the building up, we'll be here for how many hours it is, close the building up and then take care of it then. So it's an added cost. So we need the custodian here, that's when there's an outside. I just gotta tell you this, and this has changed in my seven years of being a superintendent, definitely since I was a kid, you know, the security that we have to provide in these buildings for kids and the heightened awareness that that is in our culture now, we have to make sure these buildings are secure. And so that's the reason for the custodian. That's the prime reason when I think of that as your superintendent and Amy, I've had that, is I need to ensure that this building is locked when no one's here. Okay. And it's not because anyone doesn't wanna do it, it's just it's gotta be done, and someone's gotta be the person to custodian, not custodian, it's a job, but a custodian to make sure of the school to do that. So is he here now when all the, like I'm thinking of like the kid, the girl scouts, boys scouts, is neat here now when they're all here? We have coverage during those times because it's primarily during weekdays. I think the caveat you, I would recommend you putting in is based on our ability, you know, it's gonna take a willingness from my custodial staff to work overtime. Right. They're already maxed. So, like if it's outside of regular working hours, so I think for that to not be necessarily assumed, but to understand, you know, they hopefully have lives too and have responsibilities to their own families and that kind of thing. Last year when the girl scouts held their meetings on Sundays, I don't think he was here. So do we have to look it up? I'm just wondering, do we in trying to define what groups we need to charge, is it some of the community, the community groups and these groups that are kind of already here, we aren't charging them. Would that be one way to move forward? Totally. But I'm just, but then I'm wondering, my second question is, let's just say girl scouts decided to go back to Sunday and that doesn't need half to, or the custodian have to be here at that time because he wasn't two years ago. So are we changing practices now too? Yes, I think based on an increase in our building use as well as rethinking kind of current needs around safety, that that's really what we're doing. And I'm really just asking for a board direction on that. No, I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm just trying to. I'm not trying to change it. I just, I need it to be clear so that it's not putting us in a situation where it's like, why is this group and not this group? I'm trying to get really blanket, especially like Berlin, you know where that is. It's right off the interstate. People want to use it all the time. It's going to be pedigets. I'm not suggesting that for I just want you to understand that, you know, Amy did a nice, she asked all her colleagues and said, so what are you doing in your buildings? I just think that there's a legitimacy to the custodial cost and the amount of time that that takes and that people have a certain number of hours that they have in their full-time position and that when we start to go beyond that, I think that's a very real concern and that's where the fee isn't about, if the fee isn't about the revenue, simply it's about the fact that we are expanding our costs by having extra custodial hours and that might not always be able to be served by the existing people if the use demands increase. So I think it, I don't think it's unreasonable for, I know that gets into the gray area of for who, but. Could we look at it as school-affiliated activities? So something like Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts has our kids was not school-affiliated, PTO, Saturday basketball, a school-affiliated kid. Would that be enough of a distinction that there's still obviously gray areas that people can create or interpret, but. Is that a good distinction? Like I'm not entirely sure what that means. Like I would have thought that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were school-affiliated, but they're not. I think they are, no, if you put it in Sandy, what are you saying, Neil? No, they're not. No, they're not. And they're not, yeah. They're independent. There's actually federal legislation too about their answers to schools or book for the scouts. What is the legislation? That they have access to the school and you can't stop it. Well, there's some schools that have tried because of their religious affiliation and their political take on things that's put through Congress about four or five years later you can't stop the scouts from accessing public schools. Okay, so. So, one million dollars. So school-affiliated groups. So tell me what it is. So school-affiliated groups would be able to come and they would not need proof of insurance and they would not need to pay, is that what we're saying? If they do it within school, when an actual custodian is still here during the hours when we have a custodian here is that what we're talking about already? Like basketball is not during, like the young children's basketball is on Saturday. But I feel like that's a school-sponsored event. So it doesn't seem, seems like that should be rolled into the expectations of what our school is offering. Fair enough, things like the movies, movie nights plays. Which is PTO, great so. So school-affiliated groups and school-sponsored events. Are able to use the facility without me. I still think we needed to find school-affiliated. I'm gonna need to excuse myself to my family commitment. Thank you. I look forward to getting the document though. Thank you. Safe travels. Thank you. It's a copy of it on next time's agenda. I love you so much. I just need it now. Yeah, can we wrap this up so that we can, is it possible to get, make a conclusion on this? We need to make something that gives Amy some guideline. I think she's been asking this for three meetings. I feel like we owe this. Okay, it's been longer than that. Okay. So school-affiliated groups and school-sponsored events are able to use the facility without fee and without proof of insurance. Is that true? Yeah. Even on weekends? I see, I think so. And I need to know whether if it's on, I'm assuming on the weekends, they would still need a custodian here. So that. And I would say no, then we'd be having the basketball kids come in and pay a custodial fee. No, I would say that you do need the custodian. But they don't have to pay. They don't have to pay. We got to ask them. Chris, we really need someone to hear. Okay, but let me just, we have, now we don't, do we? I'm not sure what, no. And in terms of school kids playing basketball on Saturday mornings for practice. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. No. That's what, it's maybe six weeks in, but I don't think we have a custodian. And we don't. It opens up and closes the building. And that's what I'm saying. I think you should change that practice. It doesn't mean the custodian. Because I think you need to ensure the school is locked down. I'm just giving you what we're told about safety and security through Vermont and federal resources on how to ensure you're building safe. You can go against that. I'm just telling you what we are told by the folks that advise us on those matters. I think that that's a reasonable thing to say. Having so locked up many a times on Saturday mornings. So then we should bear the cost of that. Yes. That's what I'm saying. You should bear. That's what I'm saying. You need to do. No, no. That's what I'm saying. You need to do it. Then we'll bear the cost of that. I'm not asking them to bear the cost. Okay. That's a distinction. I think that's the right thing to do, yeah. It's a lot of responsibility for a volunteer. Right. So Allison. Well, okay, but then we get back to what if the building's not available? I know. Does the event not happen? That's part of that. Or do we deputize someone who, so parents will say, you're the one responsible and you have to report, you know, report back that the building's been secured. They get a badge. What? They get a badge. They get a badge. Yes. So Chris, we've done this in other buildings. We have to change their work schedule and we change their work schedule based on knowing the student events. Okay. That's what we do. How has that worked, has that worked successfully? Has it created more opportunity? Has that, perhaps, if you have a custodian, for example, that has to be around for a school-related activity, does that then create more opportunity or more ease in allowing other people that? Not that you would. I can't speak to that. All I can speak to is the work that the custodians have to do in getting it done and then get their work done in the weekly tasks they have. They have daily tasks. They have every three times a week tasks and they have weekly and monthly tasks. If they're here on us in our other buildings where we have someone that's coming in on Saturdays, they usually, you know, the head custodian swaps work tasks to make sure the weekly cleaning needs to get done and maintenance and all that. I couldn't tell you about other access because I just don't know. Do you have higher staff turnover? I don't think we have very high. Outside of U32, our elementary buildings have pretty low staff turnover, I would say. And all the elementary schools are doing this now in terms of the schedule covering on weekends and such? As much as they can. Okay. It depends on the building. I mean, I just gotta be honest. It's about access and ease of access.  Unin-River Sports is a good, Unin-River Soccer, you know, those type of things. They want an indoor place to play soccer and, you know, they're charging kids already. I mean, for me, if you wanna ask, my opinion is if a non-profit is charging parents already, charge what you need to to get the space, you know, that's part of their program because they're making their program run off free access. And while maybe some middle-sex kids is kids from other communities as well. But AAU is a good example of that. And we're not trying to charge them a hard fee. We said, like, I think it was like $35. No, it's not huge. Per use? Yeah. Per use, yeah. Again, because it tracks custodial. Right. You don't have someone having to be that. So you're gonna charge boy scouts and girls scouts $35 per use? That's where I'm wondering whether we should expand on our definition of school-affiliated activities. What's the current time it's in the policy say? That's... Do you have your phone coming in here?  It's gonna be a little rosy when I see tabs. You'd hold her on this one, so I don't usually. Oh, so I have my tabs. I think it's policy 113. 113. I think so. There should be a 113 issue. Oh, H13, H3, H3, sorry. Like Bob Chris. Sorry. So it says, well, this is sub one. While the Board of Directors intends that the school facilities be primarily used for activities which support school program admission, Board understands that the room facilities are community resource. Board intends to enable community access to the room facility under the following guidelines. And this principle will be primarily responsible for permitting committee use. Request by local group may be granted if they're not conflicted with school programming. Any community group seeking access to the use of the room facility must comply with the applicable Vermont State and federal non-discriminatory laws. Request must be made in writing 24 hours in advance. If the group requesting use of the building is not an established community group, the name and addresses of the participating members of the group shall be submitted with the application. Principles authorized to allow immediate access under emergency conditions. All participants using the building shall sign a waiver of liability for warm as a condition of use of the building. Persons requesting use of the building must purchase a certificate of insurance protecting against potential liability for potential users of the Rumley Memorial School. Let's see. For regular users of the Rumley Memorial School. Well, actually that doesn't- But not one-off? Well, you know, it's as it's written. For regular users of the Rumley Memorial School shall be added as a additional insured to the existing policy of the group mandates insurance for its activities. I think it's missing something actually. Yeah, I think it is missing something. Do you have it in yours? Yeah, you read it exactly the way. I know, but- I think it's missing something. Oh, okay. But you've read it exactly as it's published. You know, articulately published. And it says, principle has this question to withhold or withdraw use or permission from any group which has and that goes through a series of things. So this policy, I think, is fairly outdated in comparison with the form. I agree. So it didn't seem like it's really helpful in terms of identifying community groups in terms of giving specific criteria for that to make. And that's what I heard you firmly welcome to look if you want. But absolutely, we have the definition- School affiliate, what do I have for what? The definition in terms of student. The groups- This is what I've written trying to summarize kind of sort of maybe what we've possibly been saying. School affiliated groups in school sponsored events are able to use the facility without fee and without proof of insurance. RMS will bear the cause of the custodial fees associated with those events. Events taking place after normal custodial hours are only able to be scheduled if a custodian is available during those times. All other groups and purses wanting to use the facility are required to pay a cleaning fee of something and are responsible for any additional custodial fees as well as responsible to provide proof of insurance. Insurance proof may be waived for community groups that are not associated with state or national groups and do not have official membership. No group may use the school facility if it interferes with school programming and priority is given to school affiliated groups beyond that use is available on a first come, first scheduled basis. This one's pretty sick. Here's the mall, I miss anything? Is your concern that groups like, I know we need to wrap this up, but that groups like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts that would be like a financial barrier to being able to use the space? I don't think the insurance is, I'm pretty sure that Ursula has told me they have insurance, but yeah, definitely. Come on, but do you think they have national insurance? Yeah, but I don't know if you can't do the fee of $35, yeah. Is it a banner of, is it during school? I like your all-in-a-bio-milk-archive package. During operating hours, school, custodian operating hours. So for example, if the Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts were to be using the facility at a time that is within the hours of operation for hours and that there's already a custodian on site, then no fee would be required. But if scheduling was to take place outside of that, I mean, does that be one way to address it? Say that one more time for me? So let's say so, they'd met at six o'clock on Wednesday nights. Right. There's a custodian here at that time, so that a fee would not be charged, but if they wanted to meet on Sunday afternoons at two. And is this a school-affiliated or non-school-affiliated? Just looking at Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, we're talking about that, right? Well, that's the example I'm giving. I wasn't necessarily drawing that distinction, but that's it. They're a good example. Okay. Because that's what I'm saying is, I know that last year they did it on Sunday, this year they do it right after school, but there's some barriers to doing it after school, so there is consideration to go back to a weekend. But if this policy were in place, then that's a big thing. That's not, they're not gonna be able to choose to do that. So I guess that's fine. Yeah, I feel like we could put something in there that groups regularly using the premise may apply for fee waiver, and that way for groups that are continually doing it, it might be worth it for them to come sit here and present their case. This is doing every week or whatever, every two weeks we come here, can we have a wave this regular fee as they can present their case? It wouldn't be this board if merger happens. That's a very good point. It wouldn't be this board that would decide on whether to grant a waiver if merger happens, and so if you want to give groups like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts a fee waiver, or what's next, middle sex or something like that, the policies should be drafted like that now. I think wherever the decision-making lies, clarity is most important rather than allowing for discretion on the case. I do, but then we have a line in the sand. Now if somebody, some group that we doesn't seem as worthy, the satanic worshipers of atheists of middle sex really wants to use the facility of a week, which believe me, I have no prejudice against or anything, it's just we, the community may not feel quite so warm and fuzzy about saying, oh, we'll waive your fees for you adults who are coming here as a non-organized something to do things that whatever you want to do, as we do with Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, which we feel benefits our students. So how do we clarify? Well we can clarify by pointing to the benefit to students regardless of whether it's affiliated with a national organization or not. And so if we have that it's benefiting middle sex students, majority middle sex students anyway, that would be an extension that would take away anything for them to deal with adults. So rather than focus on the national organization, focus on the participants being the students. So if the participants are a majority of Romney students, and this is a regular event, so I feel like one officer or something people can probably, it does cost us money, so they should probably pay for it, right? But for regular events that I can see how that would be burdensome to. But what if we had something like, folks wanted to organize a test to invent some Romney students on a Saturday? I mean that would be something that we'd all want to encourage. So Chris, I'm just gonna ask you a facilitation question. You've been talking about this issue for almost 45 minutes. I know. So you could keep going on this. No, nobody should bring it to us. Or I would tell you that I think the Berlin school has a pretty good policy. I can't find it. The practice is not policy. I think most of this came from them. They usually, if they say over half the students or there are Berlin students because they have the chest term there. Let's do it. They do charge fees. But I think there's, the hard part is really something like what's next middle sex? I mean, I think they're meeting right now. They're meeting in a room not to give them a lot of cost and benefit during the day. The place that's gonna, some places where it's gonna get gray is private tutor. Folks are making money off of it. And so you're gonna say, well, that benefits students. Yeah, but people are making no living off of it too and using our space to do that. So you would need to make a decision that that's gonna be a place that's gonna be gray. And when you start to find benefit to students. That's the only place I can think of. That's really, we've had to deal with that at other schools. Music, I think we'll be the same thing. Right, and that's what I'm saying. And we've had to, we don't charge a lot but there's a little bit of a fee for that. We're using the space. So could you call, I mean, the criteria you're talking about, so let's see, let's see here in this form. I know it doesn't, so can you just circulate, or ask? I don't know if it's actually even written anywhere but I know that that's the way that our office runs it. So I can't, everybody tells me to find the Berlin one. I cannot find it on their website. I have gone, I have searched, I have searched Google Form. But this is totally that the guidelines for who gets to who pays. I cannot find that document. I do know if we leave this room without guidelines, our principal's gonna hunt us down. So we need to give her something and also my children are going to de-granulate in like another 20 minutes. Okay, so let's, let's, okay. Why don't you start there, will you? I can email this to everyone on our computers. I can read it again, I can email it to everybody. I'll email it to everybody right now. Great, and really do you think there is a way of finding out what the Berlin policy is in writing? What they have, I know I have their policy is more of the procedures and practices. Okay, so. Are you guys on the run the SB list? Those would be helpful. I don't know if we are yet. I think that's in the works, so. You can make a copy of it. Okay, so I'm gonna send this, but then what do we, are we punting again? And are we gonna put these on? No, no, no, no. We will, we have a meeting next Thursday, so. Okay. We'll finalize it then, okay? But, okay. Okay. Katie, what's your email address? Wait, can you see that off? Wait, can we send it to everybody? Why don't you send it to me and pull up Krista, get it to everybody. Okay. Come on, she's got an email address. All right, so here's what I can do. I wonder if I can do this. I can send what I have. I would really like it if we could somehow find this mysterious document that Berlin has that describes their. What I'm saying is it may not be a document. It may just be their guidelines. It's just how they've been doing business. You've got their form. You've got their policy. I definitely have the practices and procedures about how they do that for the number of students. So it's the piece of, you know, just in the working practices, not in a written piece. Okay, so, you ready to move on? So, I know I feel like we just need to make sure we have this down. So I've sent something, and how are we gonna get this on the accident action agenda such that we vote on it next week? What needs to happen? Okay, we'll put it on the agenda. And then I will circulate a revision of this because this does not do what Amy wants it to do in terms of a student's discretion for her. Right, right, right. And we'll also send it around the public revisionary language to our policy, which also gives the person quite a bit of discretion. So we'll be more concrete. Can we do this? Can every one of us please look at the policy which I can send us an email again? H3. Is H3? And can we all please look at it and if everybody can send me any changes they have to that policy, I will try to put it together into something that we can use for next Thursday. Does that work? Okay, so just to heads up, when you're responding, just responding. Just to make sure. Yeah. One person, right? One person. Got it. Next up is budget. Yep. It's like a legal issue. Open. Do you have your, I gave you the budget last time. I'm just going to give you, I'm going to do the highlights and I feel bad for Kate and Marilyn because it's... I don't have a detailed copy of it. But the budget that you recommended, this is the same budget as was in January. I will tell you some things that changed. The biggest thing that changes, you may recall, is that they were spending above the equalize, above the threshold. The equalize pupils have really, were finally locked in by the agency of education in the middle of February. So the spending above the threshold right now is $15,666. It's come down. And that's adding about a half a cent on the tax rate for the penalty for that amount. Okay, so it's $15,666? 66,666. How does 366 seem to know that? Is there any sense that number of revision will bring that lower or push it higher? So here's the thing, first you've experienced this for many years until we get to the end of the legislative session. I can't tell you. Is there any... Because while there was talk last week of law and the yield, the dollar yield by the legislature and joint fiscal, sorry, ways and needs, not just ways and needs. So, I mean, it bounces all over the place. So I mean, I can tell you that number could double or it could be gone. I just can't give you anything more stable than that. Bill, just to clarify regarding the threshold is sort of, it's not that any of our expenses have changed. This is a similar to the fact that the number that we are dividing into the $3.2 million is higher than we initially projected it to be. So it's reduced our cost curve for people. Pretty much happened. I mean, you've got it without doing an hour along the summer and how equalized people are. What is, what is the cost for people? The cost for people? The cost for people that's on your warning on page six. But now it's at 20,000, 120,000 dollars per year. That is the revised. That's the revised. We already did all this last Friday. Monday of this week, I don't remember which, frankly.  Between U32 and, oh, the 15,000? Yeah. Sorry. That's about a half a cent per hundred. Okay, per hundred dollars. Yeah, which is value. Okay. So it's about $5 on the $100,000 house. Okay, $15 on it, got it. Yeah, the total tax increase with U32 and middle sex of 7.3 cents going to the voters on April 9th. Okay, so if we pull the 7.3 cents. Half a cent or half a penny of that is the penalty. Okay. It'd be 6.8 without the penalty. Okay. And that's getting the budget level but not having the penalty. If you recover the 15,000, you could probably come down to 6.3. And then can you just? 6.3? Yeah, because you're going to have to reduce the 15,666 and spending and you get that doubled. You get that doubled from the third again. And then what's the impact per hundred thousand? For the overall tax rate? For that 7.3 cents. So it'd be $73. Okay, yeah. Per 100. Per 100,000 dollars on the sex value. Okay, so the question is, do we want to keep the budget as it is, make any alterations to it to come below the threshold? And if we're going to make alterations, what would be, what would you be reducing? I have two concerns. And they are, I think, kind of a low risk, right? It seems like merger is kind of, it's like barreling down on us, right? So it's very likely as a move point. I did originally when it seemed like perhaps we might have a stay or something else might happen. I thought we should have a second budget prepared because I was actually, I am a little concerned that our community would potentially vote this down because we have, over or whenever the threshold, I think that can be a big red line for people. And so I guess I sort of felt like we should be prepared time wise so we can have a budget in place. I'm not so sure that that's as important now as it was. And I guess I feel like we should, for me, I would probably just go with this budget. The other thing that I wanna say though, is that if we are merged, I think we have to keep the teaching staff, teaching and staff the same for the 19 and 20 year. But after that, it could be changed. And I think that there is a very real possibility that a merged board is going to want to get our costs in line with other schools' costs. And I'm wondering if we shouldn't, as, since we exist as a board, take it up as what would we cut so that we are making that recommendation as a rumny board instead of a transitional board deciding for us what would go. That's just my two cents. What's the amount we have to bring it down to get out of the penalty zone? 15,000. So 16,000, just say 16,000 because it's 15,000. 16,000. And it bounces. I mean, last year we thought we were right up to $30,000 in the rules that we finished the legislature. It's a relative number right now for us. It's not steadfast. Well, it's a number than one we have to recommend to our community. Right, right, right. You have to recommend the expenditure. The penalty can move based on other calculations. I mean, we're recommending a budget that has a penalty attached to it because you don't know what the final number will be. And our best estimate. And our best estimate. Is it fair to say, Bill, that all possibilities have been exhausted for lowering the cost per pupil without taking staff reductions into consideration? I mean, I feel like we went through everything. We went through tech. We've already underfunded our capital fund. I feel like we've gone through it. It's true. Well, I think that I mean, I'm in favor of this budget because I think that the budget reflects what Amy said that she needed in terms of staffing and what's required at the school. I think if a merger happens, then that team is going to make the best decisions that they will for the school. I don't think making a cut in advance and trying to play the game in that direction is something that we necessarily have to do. But if we feel like we have to address this penalty, I would take it out of the capital fund because I think that would have the least impact on students. And then if we could become a merged board, we don't need to bring a huge capital fund into the merger. We don't have a huge one, I don't think, anyway. Yeah. Go ahead. No, go ahead. If there are any staff positions that are not going to be occupied coming into this summer, would it be a potential to just not fill those positions? For setting your budget, you'd have to know that now. Yeah. Great. And the penalty and everything is calculated on our projected budget, not our actual cost. So even if we didn't spend that extra $15,000, we would still pay the penalty because we budgeted for it, which was confusing to me in the beginning. Made no sense, but does it make sense? So we fill out a budget. We decide. We are planning to spend $100,000. If we go over the penalty with that $100,000, we pay it no matter what, even if we only spend $90,000. So it's not what we spend, it's what we project. It's what you budgeted. Rather than that game. It's what your budget and not what your actuals are. Does this budget reflect the teaching negotiation? Pretty close to that. Close enough. Close enough. There'll be a little bit of general plan balance that we need to. OK. Not much. OK. You know how close that is. I do. Yeah. OK. Thank you. I do have to agree that Alison is raising an important point that we should at least be reflecting on. And that I know that there are other schools that made difficult decisions on staffing in order to stay below the threshold. And so going into a merged budget if that's what's to happen is that the, I think it is only logical to think that the Romney budget could be one of the first places that has looked at if, in fact, there needs to be cuts. Because I know that Bill, you've said that the understanding of that next year, even a merged budget is going to be under over the threshold at this point. Even if you look at it by building all but one building, if you look at it by building, all but one building would be there. Would it be over? Would be over. And if you look at overall as one merged budget, we're looking at projection. We're looking at a serious, not this upcoming year, but a year from now. FY21, we're looking at some serious, we have serious financial concerns going forward without the legislature changing the way the threshold was cut. And that was something that was designed in 2015 by the legislature when they put this threshold in place was to make it decreasingly the gap between the threshold and what the budgets were at, schools to get smaller and smaller and smaller and put more downward pressure on costs. And they could change that in the gap. Right, right, they could. But that's just where it is. You asked us to look multi-years. Quick vote, who's, I'm thinking official, that who's OK with the budget that we have as written here to present this to our voters? I'm less concerned about the merge board going out of its way to cut the room's budget, because it wouldn't be cutting room in this budget. It would be a single budget at that point. All the budgets can be added up, and that's going to be the overall budget for the Supervisory Union as a whole. And I think it would be, I just could not foresee those board members basically spanking and rumbling for being over the budget by $15,000. I don't think it's a matter of spanking. I think it's just a matter of where have already tough decisions had to be made in schools? And if you look at where those decisions is made, they're happening at U32, that, they happen at Berlin. I don't know if they've happened in Calis. East Montoya and Calis, they've happened. And so this is the only place that hasn't happened. So I think just as managers, as stewards, it's a logical place to at least look first. So I think it's so. So if we shifted capital funds to what would fund balance to cover this shortfall, it's really not being fiscal managers. It's just using one-time money to deal with it. But you can't move away to budget processes through the Ample 2 code. If you're setting an expenditure budget, you're not setting the revenues. So while you might take revenues out of here, this is one of the adjustments that happen in fact in Act 68, because this is part of what happens, that was what happened in Act 68, for instance, in a place back in the early 2000s, where people were getting revenues from other places, and not counting it on their expense. And so what they changed to for calculating tax rates was like, you're only looking at your expenses. We're not looking at any revenue from them and what you're budgeting for that expense. So we would have to actually cut costs then? Yeah. And we're going to come under the threshold. Yeah. I guess I'm trying to say, aren't we aware, there is a position that is going to be open here at our school? Right. Yes. What if we just don't fill that position? I don't know if it's a position that we couldn't fill. I'm not aware of what this position is. Sorry. We're talking about Met Shallow. Yeah, OK. So we're talking about Met Shallow in this game, basically giving her notice for next week, from March 15. But I don't think her position, it's a position one that needs to be filled. I think it does. Yeah, I think it does, too. I mean, just in terms of the role that she plays. So I don't think it's one that would necessarily stay open, meaning that we wouldn't have to fill it. So I mean, do we have positions like that? No, I mean, we don't. We don't come up with a show that we don't need. We don't do that. We try not to do that. But that's my point. We need all these positions. We need our teachers. We need our paras. We need our paras. We need our teachers, and we need an MTSS. You two are talking about making hard decisions. I'm throwing out a decision out there that doesn't require us to cut someone that we are emotionally drawn, have a connection to. Is it a position? If we have to cut positions, this is an open position. Why aren't we discussing cutting it? What's the difference between her position, a para? I understand what the difference is, but... So we should be taking, if you're gonna ask it, what I would say to the board is, if you wanna cut to get to a certain place, tonight's not the time to say what it is. Give us the bottom line. That's all the voters have to approve. I know that's hard to sell to the voters, but we should be doing it in a more thoughtful way and look at the overall system. And that's trying to take, it's taking every individual person that were attached to out of the equation. We should be asking what it looks like on the system, respectively. So the real question is, do we want to send back to central office the comeback to us with a budget that's under the threshold, or are we gonna approve this budget as it is? We have. Well, we have to. We have a warning that has to be said. I know. Well, we can also approve a budget that's 10,000 less than this to bring under the threshold and figure out where it's gonna come from later. Yeah, that's what I just said to you. Yeah, I know. But it doesn't mean personnel. What I'm saying is that doesn't mean personnel. Well, that, yeah. But I don't know that that's a possible thing. I mean, I feel like we went through everything and we went through health insurance, we went through tech and we went through books and we went through facilities maintenance and we did not come up with anything that was $20,000. It wasn't a person. I thought there's still, I haven't read it here, still 30,000 in the capital fund. But then that's like totally non-fiscally responsible and not fun or capital fund. I mean, I get, because we're being merged, but that just feels so duplicitous. I mean, we're gonna go be with a bunch of other schools and we're gonna say, oh, we did this really irresponsible thing because we want you guys to share the burden of that, that just feels terrible. You know what, that's a merger issue because the folks from Calis and Worcester would be saying we're being forced to share our debt from all of you other guys that we didn't incur. And so I don't think it's duplicitous. It's just the way this merger is gonna play out is that folks who are gonna be taking on burdens that they wouldn't necessarily take on it, they were the ones making the decision. I think it's a wash. What? Yeah, I mean, I've heard you on that. Alison is saying though, it's one thing for through no fault of anyone's is Calis or Worcester taking on other people's debts other than the fact that they were forced to do so by state mandate. This is a choice that we're essentially making to pass that on. So I think there's at least a distinction to be made. I think that 46 was made as a choice by a lot of legislators. So there is personal responsibility there. Knowing, let me just finish on this and then I know it's an act 46 thing. Knowing that other schools that don't have debt are gonna be forced to merge with others that do and it's gonna be a shift. I mean, there was nothing that was written in that would protect that against from happening and could have been. Yeah, but anyway. I agree it's terrible. I'm with you, it's terrible. But to me, this is an example would be Obamacare, right? So I don't care whether you like Obamacare or not, I consider it deeply irresponsible when we have people in government who are purposefully trying to make it fail. Like that just fills me with rage, right? And I feel like this is, it's not the same but it's kind of akin to that. If we wanna go, if we're having a partnership and it's happening, we better start playing nice from the very beginning or we're immediately gonna get into this situation where we have everybody, you know, it feels unfair. What this other school has, I just feel like we have to do everything we can to be as nice to like make this merger as pleasant as possible. But what do we have that others don't have? Well, can I also just say what's gonna happen? Like what the other towns are going to see when they see our budget? They're going to see the per pupil expenditure and what we're talking about here if you lowered the capital fund, that number goes down. So it actually looks like we're playing better and they don't know the history of the capital fund and what's in front of that. And I mean, you tell me about like, aren't all the schools kind of all over the map on what they funded and they don't fund for capital funding and I don't know. It's gotten a lot better Kyle than it has. Yeah. The probably the lowest funding is right now from Calis to their capital fund and they have the least amount of reserves coming in. Yeah. The best capital fund is East Montpelier and U32. And U32 made a decision a couple of years ago to have it directly funded from the budget instead of coming from tuition above budgeted tuition expenditures, which was a smart move as well. So what's Calis said now in terms of what they're? They're around $65,000 coming in with their capital fund. It's pretty tiny and they only have 43,000 going in each year. Yeah. Should be higher. So, I mean it's, what's gonna be looked at? It's gonna be the paraeducators. There isn't another building that's staffed the way this building is for paraeducators. That's what's gonna be looked at. So I agree with that. And I'm just gonna be really open and transparent about that so it's gonna be looked at. On this dinner. Totally is. And we had our teachers sitting in this room, at least some of them.  And I guess all I'm saying is I think we should consider if we really want to protect that, I feel like maybe we need to do ahead of time. Shh. But I- And then, well, if we want to do that then, we'll pass this budget. Because we're gonna reduce it for $20,000. And then I would vote for a reduction actually. And try to keep it away from any staffing. But if you want to protect para, then you vote for this budget because this funds all the pairs that are next to you. And I would recommend right away. Chris, you and I've had this, I've taken it right away to the capital fund. That's where you go. Because everything else is tight. I don't know if there's any. You ask me how tight everything else is. Everything else is tight. And we would do that after we pass this budget. Or right now, whatever. When does the final budget need to be established? We just have to pass a bottom line. Expenditure number. So what happens to give you what happens here right now, we have to provide by somewhere in the beginning of June, I don't have the actual date. Lauren and I were going over this this morning. We have to provide information to the agency of education. So that by July 15th, they can produce bills to the town clerk for taxes. If we don't have a budget by then, which is still likely though, because depending on the merger piece, bills will be late out to taxpayers to collect taxes in the towns. So that's setting of that budget is really crucial. And that's how the system works. It doesn't matter what you spend it on. The sport has adjust spending or has gone into using general fund balance to pay for spending above and beyond the budget. And there's been times when we've been tight and we've curtailed spending in different places. So that's doable. It's not so much what's in the lines that you need for tonight, you need that bottom line. And I think, I'll go ahead, Brian. Am I hearing that we basically don't need to establish a firm budget until June 1st, potentially we have that long? I think it's more a political piece. And it's more a political piece of what your overall budget. I'm telling you an overall budget. Your budget is a guideline. This right here, when you send out this piece to voters, which we're gonna be publishing, it's about people wanna know what you're gonna spend it on. And so when you say to voters, oh, we're gonna change it, but we'll go find that later. In some towns, that's fine. People understand that they're used to that. That has not been the culture in Washington Central. The culture or the expectations or the practice, whatever word you wanna use has been, hey, we know what those numbers and how they had them. I'm not trying to force you to do something today. I'm just trying to point out some of the obvious pieces. Yeah, and I look at the advantage of being upfront transparent about how we plan to expend or use taxpayer dollars makes complete sense to me in a lot of ways. I'm also thinking if we have more time to allow just things to materialize, whether it's information from the legislature or staff, whatever it might be. Staff at times. I mean, you guys know it. You've seen it in September. We come back and say, hey, we got $30,000 more. We have $30,000 more in cost. We may have more flexibility three months from, or two months from now. And we also wanna be aware of leaving up time for petition to, if a budget even passes, petition to challenge it in that timeframe. So we need to, the latest would probably be in May. Well, we can still vote on it on the ninth. We vote on a budget on the ninth, but if we had some time, additional time to figure out how all those dollars played out with that. It seems to me that when we vote on the budget on the ninth that the critical outcome of that is that then as a school we can move forward or as a board we can move forward and offer the contracts to the employees who are essential to making the school operate and ensuring that learning happens. And so that, I know as a teacher I'm always waiting for two weeks after town meeting day because that's typically when I get a contract. And that's a very, that's a point of reassurance. And so I think that that also is gonna ensure that you keep your best staff, we keep our best staff as opposed to if people have uncertainty or if they think they're gonna receive a letter of intent and some vague expectation of employment then more people might start seeking. I mean, I'm just saying that that's what happens. So I think offering a contract is important. Yeah, well then could we still offer contracts? You can offer contracts without a budget. Yeah. So choose, is it? Well, we know that. You can do either way, don't you? So are we at this point saying that we could either vote for this budget as written tonight or we could vote for a number that is $16 or whatever $1,000 less than this and then see if it shakes out. That's what was happening here, right? That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Where are you guys falling on this? But if it shakes out would be where, what's the shakeout, is that? The shakeout means to see if the numbers change over time so that we don't have to. So I can't advise you as that because we're gonna need to, I think it's responsible if you're gonna go down lower. Like I'm saying, you don't need to do it tonight but we need to do it pretty quickly and it might be next Thursday that we have the discussion so where do you want to take that out because I think I would advise you guys when you have to talk to your voters about presenting a budget that you should be able to say so this is what we're planning on taking it. It may be somewhere else that it can come out of but right now our best guess if you ask us today is X. So it's just basically saying if this is the budget this is what we're planning to spend it on and we're not gonna change that, right? Well, you changed it before, Chris. That's fine, I know, but we're sending that to the voters. Right, right. What was that? Nothing. The one thing that makes me nervous is was it last week that we talked about the budget, yes, because you weren't here and there were two or three community members in here that said going over the Penalty Zone is a hard line for your community. I would vote to, I think we should keep the budget but that's the only thing in the back of my head that I'm hearing is God forbid. Well, the risk that we run with a failed budget is being forced in that position to offer contracts without even clear expenditures and so that's... Is the default plan, I'm not trying to interrupt you too much but is the default plan then if you send in the current budget and if it got voted down then would, are you suggesting, oh, we would then take out that 15 from the capital fund? We would modify it because the voters are saying we're not supporting this budget and we'd have to modify it but... But offer teacher contracts without actually having a budget. And we're looking at another, for realistically this 40 days for the next election. Yeah. Plus for spending, there are some costs of having elections too. Yeah. So I would rather us put a budget that we feel confident both in what is the services that is delivering but that will also pass and not put us in a position where we could potentially be offering students teacher contracts that we might not be able to honor down the road. So I think to get us there, I would propose that we get up at budget of 3,248,467 dollars which will get us just below the penalty zone. Did you take 20,000 off? I took 20 off. Okay. So 3,248,467 dollars. Are you taking that out of the capital fund? Is that your proposal? That is a decision we make later. I guess my question is if there's not any flexibility in the budget, if that's a decision that we make later, concerns me a little bit of how would you offer a contract if there's a $20,000 question mark in the budget? And I said before I would be willing to go below and not have to come from staffing. And so figured out somewhere some other way. How to pull pennies out of walls. That would be Michael. I think if we do this, we all have to be extremely clear that unless we can agree that, I mean unless we would decide staffing's issue, we have to agree to take this out of the capital fund because I mean I don't, unless I misunderstood, we just did not have a lot of other flexibility. So is everybody comfortable underfunding the capital fund by that much? I mean we're not actually making an agreement to I guess keep staffing where it is. I suppose that would have to be unless that's part of your motion that staff. I know it's not a deal but it's not part of the motion. It could be proper if you follow the motion. Okay. We could just motion on a budget. So just a point over. I didn't hear you say that as a motion. Okay. I said I would propose this as a motion. Are you ready? I did not officially say I moved. I'm just trying to ditch it. I'm also trying to help you get along here just to get down. We've been here almost two hours and I'm thinking of your kids out there. I have to take them. So is everybody ready for a motion? Sure. Yeah. Okay. I moved that we recommend a budget and warn a budget in the amount of $3,248,000 $467 for the 2019-2020 school year at the Rundlemore School. Hold second. Any more discussion? Can I just recommend that you say you adopt a budget? No. And just the warning everything else you'll do in your next piece. Okay. Then I would move that we adopt a budget in that amount. Do you get that at least so if that changes? To adopt a budget. To adopt a budget. Yeah. Okay. Any more discussion? All in favor? Hi. Hi. Hi. Any post? I don't disagree. It's so hard. It's such a hard. Next up is the warning. Yeah. We did put that here. That's on page nine. Is an action item. We would, I have the warning here. We will change the amount on there and change the education spending. And as we always do, you would have a public, you need to have a public hearing 10 days before the vote as you're used to, you know that. If you want to set that tonight, we could do that so it could be on the morning. I'm really sorry, I have to leave you guys. Okay. Can I have you sign this? Yes. Can I just, regarding the principal search committee, I am strongly in favor of Chris Malone having a part in that and I'm strongly in favor of our teaching staff having a strong presence in that committee as possible. They are the ones, this is going to be their boss. We should make it a boss where they all work harmoniously together in my humble opinion. Okay, what's your position on a third party, consulted? If our teachers think a third party is important, then I will support that despite the fact that we are talking about $16,000 making or breaking our budget. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. You personally want to be a board member. I was just going to ask that too. You wanted to do it, yes. I would love to do it. I think that'd be great. I think you would be a very good choice. If nobody else wants to do it, I will, but I think we have a lot of good choices. Who else is interested? Just so we have it on the table here. You and Subbar? Yeah. Okay, so then we'll... Marilyn? No, honestly, I think you would be great. I was going to nominate you and Katie. Okay, so... Do we have any idea of the time commitment? There will be at least a half day of committee coming together and forming questions and then there will be probably a three quarters to a day of interviewing. And then it depends. I usually ask one of you to go along with same visits. Do you have an interest in doing it? You know, I'd say I was not going to do it this time. Be solely because you did it last time? In part, but also give others an opportunity. Okay. But I would say, yeah. I mean, I did serve on the committee to find support staff for the front desk. So if somebody else wants to take their turn, completely willing to let that happen. But otherwise, I'm okay to do what those would do as a society is going to be the best for everyone. Okay. Good, thanks. Thank you very much. I'm sorry, can I get a room? Okay, so... Warren? Luke? Yeah, you've done traditionally the Saturday before the election. And then the day before here, do you mind doing that? Yes. Okay. So we'll do it for the April 8th, here, and then whatever that Saturday is. Yeah, I will. The red hand. No, this needs to get signed. If you can pass that, I'm gonna write that on here. Saturday at nine, I think it's been the tradition. Where? What was April 8th? You may not want to do it April 8th, actually, Chris, because there may be in a district organization meeting. On April 8th? Yes. On Monday night. Before the election. So you may just want to do it that Saturday or Sunday. Because April 8th is a district organization. Who if we did it Thursday? To have it at Romney. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. So it's another Thursday. All right, we can do that beforehand. Wait, sorry, what did you just do? Because I didn't find it here on the start. There would be an informational meeting here Thursday. I'm gonna get on my calendar to give you the date. It would be April 4th, I believe. Thanks, Scott. April 4th. At 6. Saturday thing? And Saturday would be at the Red Hen at 9 a.m. On April 6th. It's a budget informational meeting. Yeah. Right. Is it okay if we're not all here? I'm gonna get out of the country then. I just need one or two. What a traveler. New life. Okay, so people can sign that. Do you all sign? Do you all sign? We'll do that. Take care of it. Okay, so what's that with budget issues? Did you adopt the warning? You need to adopt the warning. Okay, so I moved to adopt the warning of the budget set for a vote on April 9th and have an informational meeting on Saturday, April 4th, or 6th, and then also on Thursday, April 4th. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Because the last order of the second is after the business. We'll talk about the principal search committee. Is there any motions based on what we've discussed previously today? What are our options at this point in time? Yeah, I agree. Time is only the estimate when you get the show on your own. So the things that are pending are whether to add Chris as a member of the committee. At some point, Allison and Katie as the board members pick out of a hat community members that are going to be asked to serve. And then the final would be hiring a consultant. That's what I'm most interested in is talking about sort of that last step. I guess it doesn't matter which priority you want. That's what I meant when I was asking. We need to kind of get this going. Who's going to lead this? So I agree with what Chip presented from the teachers. You've heard that from me before, having an outside consultant. It is going to delay us. It's just worried that I cannot spin someone up to be ready for Monday. And I'm going to try to do it as fast as I can. I'm going to be making phone calls tomorrow morning. But I just, to call someone, I haven't talked to a Laurie singer since I told her that the board wasn't interested anymore. So it's just an affair to her. I don't know where she stands. I would call her back and say, the board has changed its mind since it's had some further input. And would you be able to do this and what your schedule looked like? And if she wasn't able to do it, I'd start getting back on the list of people that do this work. Has the position been posted? Yeah, it's been posted since. Yeah, the principal position. OK. Yeah, we've been posting since January. And we've been telling. One of the things I'm going to have to do is send out to all the candidates that I asked them to reserve days for an interview on the week of the 18th. I actually gave them a Tuesday and Wednesday. And I'm going to have to push that back. Do we have to push that back, you think? Well, if Chris and I were talking about this earlier today, and Chris and I, I think we're in total agreement about this, to do forums, to get the attributes and all that and to get everything collated. Then you want the committee to set and take all that information and develop interview questions. And then after they've done that, select candidates and tell them that's a two-week process for when the forums start. So we did this two years ago, right? So in terms of the forums, are we talking about a forum with the teachers and the staff and the community? OK. So in terms of, I believe, but maybe it's worth us reaching out to the teachers that in yesterday's meeting, they didn't feel like their attributes changed. They didn't feel like there were, and I think we need to confirm that with the staff, but I don't know that we could not quickly confirm that with the staff next week. Are you wanting to sit down together as a group and talk about these things again? I think they did that yesterday and felt there's no change in what they wanted from two years ago. What do you mean? Have you not? It sounds like that was part of their conversation that they had had. And then I'm wondering with the community, again, we just did this two years ago. Do we have to have a forum again? I think from my perspective in the community, it's absolutely. Because it's been two-year time frame since. We've had two years of experience. And I think we're in a different place than we were two years ago. So I think from a community perspective, it would be helpful to hear it again and give folks an opportunity to comment on whether they think things have changed. If they haven't, what they're still looking for, if they have, if matters have changed, then to hear that. And I think the staff should have the same opportunity. And I would agree with that. Right, but could you pull that together? Could they do that on their own? Well, no, because you need to get somebody to just. Yeah, got it. Yep, I hear you. OK. It's really worth, what I've heard the whole way from everybody is, keep this as a process that brings it out as fairly and unbiasedly as possible. So you don't shortcut the process if you do that. Yep, you're right. So any motion on whether we have a facilitator? We're really at $5,000, $5,000, $6,000. Well. A consultant's like $1,500 a day. I would make a motion that we hire a consultant. It sounds like it's important to the teachers and they are the reason that we're here. Is there a second? And the kids are the reason that we're here. Is there a second? I'll second it. So is there any more discussion? Was there a dollar amount in that motion? There's not a dollar amount. But you can modify it to, maybe, say no more than $6,000. I would suggest that you don't. We're going to go in. We've got to go in. Are they facilitating the whole process? I mean, where do they start? So what happens, and when I've talked to facilitators, they're like, Bill, where do you take over? They literally say that to me. Because that's what their experience is in everywhere else. And I said, well, I want you through the first round and the second round of visits. And then I don't think I would take you to site visits. But it's always been a subset. It's usually been a teacher or two, a board member, sometimes a community member, sometimes not, myself. And then who convenes? How does that end as the finalizing of the motion? That usually happens with the group talking together. That small group really says, hey. And even if the result is not involved at that point to facilitate it? No. I mean, you could, but you're going to have a lot. You're going to take that six and push it up to $15,000. So facilitator is facilitating these forums that you're. The forums, they're facilitating the forums. They're facilitating the interviews. They're collecting all the feedback. They're making sure that we have templates and all this in place, because we've done it enough times that all the information is collected. We have to keep all of it under labor statutes for two years of all the interviews and all the records. So we keep all that. And they make sure that's done and it's done in a way that's confidential. And then they help facilitate half-day visits. So they're the person bringing the person around to be here at the building and at central office. So part of that, we keep the interviews off site. The first level interview is because the people that are interviewing for this, you need to help them keep their confidentiality. You don't do it at the school. Otherwise, you'll lose good candidates, frankly, because they had to protect what their current job is. OK. Just for information purposes, was there one of the things that was going to be looked into was potentially other facilitators outside of central office? I did nothing with that work within the SQA. Can you, I guess I'm not sure what the question is. So the last meeting, we asked if there was outside of central office staff, were there other administrators across the SQA that might be able to provide this service? Any more discussion? Do you have a list of people in your Rolodex? OK. OK. Jason, come back to me if you need some help. They're not in the bid. Their board has said to stay out of it. He's giving me some names. Any more discussion? OK. Long favor? Aye. Aye. OK. I'll just start working on the following. I'll keep you updated on timeline, because I want to get something out to the parents again about when the forum's going to be. So yeah, he talks about that, getting people having names we were going to send out a communication saying that we're still accepting. Yeah, so that communication didn't go out. That communication didn't go out. I have seminary community members here that are sending in. I think we need to send. So we can keep doing this, but I'm going to keep delaying your process. I'm sorry. He's just, you want to get this going. But nothing can get started until we hire a consultant, right? Yeah, I mean, that's where we're at. But it is not, but I have to participate in this, yes. People have volunteered. We didn't say that it was a letter that's been sent out. Oh, we got it. Originally. But the fairness is that we have delayed the process, and we were supposed to send out another one saying, folks who have already put in their names are still in or at their re-expressed interest. And so we should send out a notice and give a heart then learn of next Thursday. Next Thursday. So we can pull out of that next Thursday. Then we'll pick. OK. But I move that we appoint. Can I just before we, well, no, I'm sorry. You can do that. There's just something that there was a public communication that we received a couple weeks ago regarding the principal search that has to be talked about as a part of the public record. OK, we're going to do that first. Well, the challenge is that it includes a lot of privacy issues, even though the parent doesn't have a problem with it. We can necessarily. So I would advise the board when there's concerns about privacy that parents have the ability to not have to stay within FERC or regulations. But all of you as a board individually and collectively do. So even if we're reading something, the parent has sent us. That's right. And that has been many people have. That's the practice. So can you summarize the sentiment without identifying information? I think I'd rather for us to maybe address it. I want to honor the person's wishes. And I'd like to send it around to everyone in advance and then maybe try to come back and raise it. OK. Because that will still be in within the. I will. OK. Does that work for everyone else? That works for me. I'm not sure what it is, so for sure. I got it. So if you send it to Katie, it may kind of be the only one that has it. I think everybody in town got it already. I mean, I respect your process very much. No, but David, I have to protect the board. I completely get that. They cannot do something that would violate FERC, even if everyone in town had it. Right. It's just like me. I can't, even if it's common knowledge, I can't reveal student information. I have to protect that. Thank you on that. So I'm going to move that we point Katie Shilu and Allison Cornwall as the board representatives on the special committee. Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Thank you. I will follow up with Chip just to get the committee member, the staff member. Yeah, they were going to get it to me right tomorrow. Yeah, so I'll send it forward. I would also move that we expand the committee membership to include. Chris Malone. Right. Malone. Malone as a member of the committee. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Any other things we need to do? I would like it. I didn't ask just in terms of the search committee. Search committee? Yeah. Anything else? I'm sorry. I think we're in a good place. OK. Next up. I'm sorry because we just didn't have our usual template tonight. So I'm going to ask you for an agenda revision. And as was mentioned earlier, Meg Sheldon has tended her resignation effective next week. I don't remember which date. The 15th of March. Well, I told you that, but I said the same thing. I wasn't sure it was exactly the 15th. But it may be. But I need the board to accept her resignation for the master agreement. You have to accept it. I have a termination form that she signed. Is there a motion? No. To accept the resignation of Meg Sheldon for the state of position. No. Oh, we have to? Is there? OK. Second. OK. Any discussion? Is there a rationale or a reason why they can be stated? All in favor? Aye. Aye. OK. Can you get it? Yeah. Can you get it? I will. And for voting. Because I didn't do voting last time. Well, then how? We have to go back retroactively and do it. How's that? So we want to thank Meg Sheldon for her very worthy and impactful work at the Romney School over many years, where she really transitioned from being a very wonderful reading specialist into balancing administrative and reading specialist skills and activities. She, a whole, will be created. That will be more to them. But we wish her the best in her future endeavors. So to Meg Sheldon? Yeah. It's, you know, to a greater scale. And also, I want to thank Woden, a teacher out for her many years of service on the board. Now that she's over in Romania, I think. And that she just brought an air of freshness and inquisitiveness and curiosity that will be hard to replace. But Katie Chavaux has. What is it? So we wish her the best and hope to see her soon when she's back from her room. I suggest another one too. Since you just said something about Woden. Yeah. I think you should for Caroline as well. I think I did. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Sorry. She was here? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Any other business we need to attend? Unless we stand adjourned. Oh, no. Thank you. Just a second. I'll just find these. Just a second.