You're listening to food for thought a food-infolded podcast Maybe we can just start with a little bit about who you are Charles and explain your background for our audience Sure. Thanks a lot for for the invitation to speak about this topic. I'm very passionate about My name is Charles. I work for IDH the sustainable trade initiative That is an organization based in the Netherlands That is such as the name says focusing on sustainable trade And I work more specifically as program manager for beyond chocolate. And so that is the the Belgian sustainable chocolate initiative That brings together all stakeholders in the industry to to really move towards ambition ambitious targets in terms of sustainability My background was not in cocoa and chocolate for the whole of my career So I've worked for a couple of years in Belgium for WWF Working specifically on the on the topic of important deforestation Then I moved to fair trade in Belgium Where they pushed me into cocoa and chocolate which honestly was probably the best move in my career until now And that gave me the opportunity after a couple of years to move as program manager for beyond chocolate So yeah today what we're really going to discuss Charles is the problems with the cocoa industry today and what is being done about it Especially given your introduction and the project that you're working on I thought that it would be really good to have this discussion with you So just diving straight into it. I wanted to briefly talk about the history of cocoa Like how did we get here? What are some of the biggest problems that are happening within the cocoa industry? Or the chocolate industry for consumers that maybe aren't so familiar with cocoa No, I think it's it's a very vast question And there's a lot of different elements that we could bring here and and first of all let me start by being clear I'm not a historian But I'm passionate about the the topic of cocoa and and the work that needs to be done on Supply chains to be clear, and I think that is very well known there is definitely an emergency for the sector to to really move towards To what's better trade and trade that benefits the people and the planet. That's what we are talking about About today, but now how did we get there? I think maybe the the easy answer to this would be our addiction to chocolate And that started a long time ago actually Cocoa and chocolate appeared on the European continents already in the 1600s, so we're talking about a Couple of centuries ago, and so it came to Belgium That was under Spanish occupation And it came from from Latin America, and so that's when we we discovered Cocoa and hot chocolate and and they're a whole culture of chocolate actually Started developing and so I'm sure you know and and most of the audience will know that Belgium Likes to define itself as a chocolate country, you know, we have the biggest chocolate factory I think I can claim that Belgium invented the pralines also in Early of last century right in Brussels if you walk around in Brussels, you'll see that one out of two shops almost Figures speak, of course, but is is selling chocolate I think it's not so much a figure of speech. I've seen it around the Grand Place It's almost all chocolate and so we're very passionate about that and I think that that also through through the years There's a real craftsmanship that was developed and so there's really this culture of chocolate and I was Also educated in in a family where you know, we give chocolate to each other on special occasions Okay, you've got flowers, but the next one is flowers in chocolate, right? We do agree on that And so I think there's there's a big fascination for the product and thus also a big demand now what we haven't seen enough in the in the last Years and probably generations is having that same Love and respect in our in our culture of chocolate translated through the whole supply chain And so that results today in indeed In indeed a couple of important challenges in the sector and and here I must say also I prefer to to use the word challenges and not problems because to me chocolate is not a problem Actually, it's probably part of the solution and I think that if we can If we can really transform our supply chains and again Share the benefits of this product that everyone is so fascinated about I think we can really have a powerful tool for the good But then we need to to make sure that that indeed we create and support this transition So then what are some of the biggest challenges within the cocoa industry today? Definitely and and that's also the essence of of the beyond chocolate partnership Is that we have an agreement on on the big the big challenges or the big topics that we want to address? together as stakeholders in in this sector And there's actually I'll try to keep it simple because of course there's many things to talk about but I would I would raise four challenges and and probably in order of importance The first one is is the challenge of of poverty or even extreme poverty And so here with beyond chocolate The outspoken ambition is to to ensure that producers on the long term Can earn a living income? Living income is one that is sufficient to cover all your basic needs food education transport health, etc Today that gap between the actual level of income and what would be a living income? in in In the two biggest cocoa producing countries Côte d'Ivoire and Ghana is huge today according to several studies Producers earn less than one euro a day or even less than 70 cents a day Of course life is cheaper in Côte d'Ivoire, but let's be honest also with 70 cents a day There's not much room for investment. And so That to me is really the the biggest challenge that we face in this supply chain and and actually it's not much different from From other commodities that that you might also cover in in other stories Um But here again, I believe that we with chocolate we have a product that that can help to to make a real move forward So challenge one definitely breaking this poverty trap because the poverty trap to me Uh is at the root of all the other challenges that we have in cocoa and the two next ones Would be deforestation Uh and child labor deforestation if you if you look at the numbers and I don't want to become the statistician here, but If you look at at just google a couple of satellite maps There's there's been great work done by by a couple of NGOs to to see the impact on forests of our of our consumption patterns And there in again these two countries Côte d'Ivoire and Ghana They lost a huge part of their forest coverage and when I say huge I talk about more than 80 or 90 percent Since they're independence So it is important it is that important that today we actually need to start talking about reforestation And so I'm not saying it's all cocoa, but for those two countries cocoa definitely has been a driver of deforestation Child labor is another issue that is widely spread across agricultural commodities, but that that is also relevant In the cocoa sector, but here I I'd like to To to give you a quote that was given to me by By a cocoa producers in one of my first encounters with uh with a cocoa producers With a cocoa producer and he said in in in french estomac famer n'a pas d'oreille And so in in english it means that a hungry stomach doesn't have any ears And and that is Exactly what I mean with poverty is at a root and we need to be able to solve that if we want to to Really propose solutions that work on the other challenges Because the reality for for a cocoa household today is that it's it's a daily struggle to put food on the table and to put all your kids It's cool. Uh, and as long as that is a struggle, uh, there's little room For other actions and specifically actions that are linked to sustainability targets So we need to address that the fourth and last one would be transparency in the sector But that is also a more general Yeah, I mean, I think it was interesting. Um your point about well the fact that If you have a hungry stomach, it's very there's very little room for anything else Um, and it it was interesting because with food unfolded last week We had covered a fair trade campaign that I'm sure you're aware of charles And we had some of our community. They had asked us, you know, oh, well Is fair trade more sustainable for the environment? Like should I even buy this if it's shipped all the way from another continent? You know, because this has been on the forefront of many people's minds in terms of environmental sustainability Um, but it's a difficult conversation I remember engaging with uh, some of our followers and saying that but ultimately it's it's your decision. Uh, but um It's it's not one or the other necessarily and sometimes you have to bear in mind that In order to achieve environmental sustainability In the long term you also need to provide a financial sustainability But of course you also have well, you can't necessarily have financial sustainability if you don't have environmental sustainability But I think that's a very important point. Um, that maybe a lot of conscious consumers We tend to forget about No, and I do I I do agree and I understand attention and and I think that it's great that that this conversation is taking place And and just like you say Everyone should make his own choices especially if you're uh, I think it's already great to be conscious about it and to think about it and indeed You might decide that for you one one of the options of of Because here we're talking about reducing your environmental footprint One of the options might be to you know to focus strictly on on on local ingredients It's probably a huge challenge but It might be the best solution for some for some amongst us and and I think we We need to respect that on the other hand and and that's a bit of the point that I was making earlier um Trade is is really a powerful tool for development or a catalyst And I'm sure that that that we've all had these history lessons when we were kids Uh, where you know, we talked about the the golden era of this or that city, you know and and I remember very vividly the golden era of the the belgian city of bruce and that golden era actually is associated with With really good trade at that point And so there you see that trade is really through The history of mankind has been a tool for development Now the thing is we need to look at the quality of that development Is it the development that we want or not? But my point here would be Don't blame the tool But look at the results I guess maybe diving in more to because these are kind of the misconceptions I think that was actually in my next question Which was what are some misconceptions people might have about the cocoa industry and its challenges It's it's to me probably your most difficult question because I'm in it And and I know that I've I tend to To again to talk about this with a lot of Of my friends and family members So I think that the misconceptions I've probably tried to to manage them in my in my close circle But if I if I can pick one That that that comes back sometimes is That nothing is being done or that nothing has been done in the past I think if you look at at the cocoa industry Definitely in recent years It has been one of the most proactive Sectors I'm not speaking about impact and results. I'm I'm really talking about you know, unlocking investments developing programs trying new things Investing in research to better understand what what can be done And and what results can be achieved what cannot be done and what is needed and so here I think the The good thing with cocoa is that there is a lot of movement I think that the The the less good side of this is that Sometimes there's a there might be a lack of direction Because the challenges are so huge There is no simple solution to a complex problem And so there's still a lot to be discovered uncovered and a lot to be done before we can Really speak of a situation that is acceptable or ideal But there is already a lot of dynamism a lot of movement a lot of investments also And so I think that that this is really again at the essence of beyond chocolate What we aim to do is is really in belgium with this program bring all stakeholders together to you know To put all the pieces of the puzzle on the table so that we can Get a good look at it identify gaps see what works what doesn't work What are the conditions what are the conditions to To make some strategies work or fail. There's a lot that we need to learn and here What what is important would be on chocolate is that we try to do this in an inclusive way That was actually my next question Yeah, well, it is important because I think and and these are two You know two sentences that that that come back often if you if you read about coca or if you're interested in the sector you will see That no no actor alone can make the difference That's one and the second one that there is no silver bullet There is no simple solution and there is no one-size-fits-all And so taking these two these two points in consideration What we wanted to do with beyond chocolate is really You know start working as a convener and bringing all these Expertise and all these views and and all these points together. And so today in beyond chocolate you have actually Coalitions that are starting to to be created that that regroup You know the the traders with their retail with civil society organizations that decide to work directly together With with one or or more cooperatives to you know to try to level up our strategies our impact models With the ambition to deliver results again We're a proud belgium chocolate country, right? And here I like to just grab a quote from from spider-man But with great great chocolate comes great responsibility And and I think that this is really what the sector in belgium Um wants to do we we really want to uh, yeah to to To associate the the quality and reputation of belgium chocolate with sustainability And so we have high ambitions for that but are also realistic The challenges are rough and so there's a lot to be done But at the same time doesn't belgium also source most of its chocolate from for example, latin america where you know You have more niche kind of cocoa producers That kind of focuses more on like the quality of the way that it's grown There seems to be a difference in cocoa production and where it's sourced from Exactly and that's also something that is probably not not known too much. Um, but so um, the origins of cocoa are definitely in in latin america, uh, and um When you look at the market today, actually there's two Countries that produce two-third of the cocoa In terms of global volume and that's called diva and gana So not so close to latin america If you zoom out a little bit, you'll see that three-quarter of the cocoa that is produced globally comes from western africa in general So you add nigeria and liberia and cameroon there and there you have the big cocoa producers Uh, on this planet latin america still is an important, uh An important supplier of cocoa, but but indeed you can see big differences Both in in in the production as in the product, uh, the end product and indeed what you've experienced Is um, like you say, uh, is more niche and and where actually you you are in in a market segment Uh, where the the the tasting of cocoa and chocolate is much more close to winery And so indeed you can start associating different tastes and and that has to do of course on on on one hand with the bean And the the genetics of of your cocoa plant, uh, and of course the craftsmanship Uh, on the other side of uh, of the of the cocoa belt, uh, you've got west africa and there what you'll see, uh is Actually, it's another market segment what you have in west africa is the the big volumes as i've said um, and so that's a totally different market segment as um Actually, they respond to different needs When I look around and and and I invite everyone to do the same Just go through your supermarket and start listing all products where you can find a little bit of cocoa or chocolate You'll see a gigantic variety of products where there might be one or two percentages of of cocoa or chocolate in it Um, but so there's also a big demand on the market, uh today for cocoa that is not specifically investing in a specific quality or or type of type of taste, but Um, that's a segment and again, it's our addiction to cocoa It's a segment where you want to have big stable volumes that can guarantee that everyone has his Uh, his doses of chocolate from time to time And there what is important is again stability of volume and stability of taste Not so much the the quality part and so you'll see big differences in the production In west africa, uh, you'll have one or two varieties of cocoa When you go to latin america, I know of cooperatives where they are actually investing in seed banks to try to You know work on the conservation of cocoa genetics to be able to to you know to respond to the need of these niche markets Um, but that's also it comes back to the to the There's no one size fits all solution because there is no one cocoa market when we talk about chocolate We think about the chocolate tablets and maybe the pralines and and you know this craftsmanship The reality is that there's cocoa in a lot of products around us and that Maybe and and maybe that's something that we need to be more conscious about I think we don't even realize how much chocolate we have in our in our kitchens and supermarkets, but it's everywhere And again protein bars or something. It's not just chocolate bars. Yeah, and it's not necessarily bad Again, it can be a powerful tool for development and and if we manage to to develop that aspect I think we can can really create a strong movement on on that market segment as well I think maybe I'd like to elaborate a bit on the point there that it could could potentially be this tool to Kind of raise people out of poverty because I know we also had this conversation before But you know, there's been a lot of investment made over the last few decades and Has there really been much of a much of a change, you know for the people that are actually living in Ghana or Cotiva, you know, like Has it really done anything or are we kind of just dabbling around and You know, it just hasn't really helped at all No, it's it's um, it's important to bring nuance in in in the response To this question because there's indeed a lot that has been done And the reality is that some strategies or some projects might have better results than other Um Now also it is important to be very clear when we look at the the top line indicators That's come back to the challenges and let's look at income deforestation and rates of child labor These indicators cannot be turned to green right now I think we need to be very clear about that. Uh, the the evolution over the last decades has probably been Probably been negative. If you look at these indicators, deforestation has not stopped child labor and and specifically also with such With such a crisis as today We know that that that there's issues uh on on that challenge as well. And so If you look at at at the top line indicators, we're not where we would like to be of course Um As a society, I mean as a whole, uh, um, it's true for coco, but it's true for many other things Um now what I also want to say this doesn't mean that we need to throw everything away everything that has been done Uh, and so that's why I I really believe in in in this Constructivism or constructive approach. Let's bring everything together And have this discussion together Because we know that that that different actors have different parts of the response that need to be to be given And here I want to also include the governments Here we're lucky in belgium to have an investment from the belgium government in such an initiative That is also triggering companies to take action. Um, but we need to also develop ways to to support local governments, you know, uh to to also invest in sustainable development of Of their coco sectors. Let's be clear about this. Cocoa is an important economic facet Of codivo and gala. Uh, it is uh, it is a particularly important commodity to generate their incomes and the incomes that that this sector Can generate for these two countries Can then be reinvested In its people that's of course the ideal situation But that that is the reason why I believe that we need to be able to put everyone at the table so that we can Empower every actor in his own function to take this extra action because we need extra action. That is clear Yeah, I I do see your point there and I do know that um, like I think it was a few months ago Or at least I've seen an article about uh, codivo the government Had made it a minimum premium that needs to be paid on top of all the cocoa that's purchased from its producers Um, and I think that's a great initiative and it's like this is exactly the kinds of initiatives that we need from government But at the same time if that's not followed Through by, you know companies big companies that are purchasing this cocoa, um from these regions You know, you see for example with fair trade. I know that they had increased their minimum price Um by a little bit, you know, the the farmers had felt look, this isn't enough for us We really need a higher minimum price and they had an 11 drop in volume sales, you know, and I think of course it's complicated, especially with trade and product and profit and profit margins and It's it's difficult but at the same time This is maybe maybe more of a personal opinion than anything that I do think that Um, certain actors also do need to step up, you know and really commit Um, especially and I think this is actually adding to your point of anything because if the government does this But then the companies don't follow through with supporting that then in the end It doesn't actually help raise up everybody and all the actors involved in that cocoa supply chain Um, but it's just there's this sense and I think many consumers also Perhaps feel it because many of our followers have also mentioned. Well, it's not just greenwashing You know, are these companies really concerned about child exploitation? Are they really concerned about deforestation or is it just kind of something nice a little label that they they put on You know, they're packaging or are they actually trying to do anything and change things because The general sense is that, you know, when you see an 11 drop in Sales because the minimum price has increased It feels as if well, then these companies aren't really committing, you know, and That it feels as if the profit is, uh, taking precedence over, um, You know More I guess no, I understand. I understand your Definitely, I understand your point and and and And this discussion and and there's a lot there's a lot of of elements in there that are true and here again I think that's why we want to bring everything everyone at the table and not only companies and governments I think for example civil society actors have a have an important role to to play in there I would like also to bring in, uh, producers and producer organizations because Uh in in ha, let's say producers are entrepreneurs. Uh, they're not so much different from From entrepreneurs on in other countries in the world They they want to they have a business and they want their business to succeed to be able to invest in their kids Very logical. There's nothing nothing much different about that Between a cocoa producer and me for example Um, uh, except that probably the the cocoa producer will be more creative in in in, you know, uh reshaping its business model to to make sure that That that he gets the best out of it, even if the best is is far from sufficient, uh, today So we need to bring, uh, we need to bring everyone into this story. Um, but here also, um, I think it's it's also today very easy to become cynical and and I need to admit also, I have my cynical moments and and and You know, it helps to To identify critical points also, but it doesn't help to move forward. Um, cynicism Doesn't do that. It has great value and I love it, but it doesn't help to move forward and so Here I'd like to challenge the idea a bit that, uh, that the companies are, uh, you know, stepping back because of and Because of a small increase in price. Um, that is the case, but maybe as consumers We have a role in there to play as well. Maybe they are stepping back because consume because Because consumers are not willing to or because companies believe consumers are not willing to Uh, to move together with them it's just more complicated than that also in in it's, um Coco in particular is a very very competitive market. And so here also the reality Um, is that, you know, taking a huge step in terms of of sustainability generally comes with a cost, right? Yeah The thing is that as a company if you want to survive in in the economic models that we have today You need to be able to to you know, to have an economic model that is viable And here in a highly competitive market It's very difficult to take a giant leap forward If you don't have the confidence that your competitors will not take a step back Because if they do you you are actually pricing yourself out of the market. And so here again, uh, this is to me um A very valid reason to try to to create that famous level playing field that that that is that is a buzzword now But that level playing field actually to say it in in a very simplistic way should allow to you know At the same time raise the floor and raise the ceiling You know creating a zone where actually the champions that want to take steps forward are unable to do so Also because they have the assurance that their competitors cannot lower the bar on the other hand And so there you can try to create this positive movement That step by step moves toward our ambition, but to do that we need to be in this together Do you feel um for everybody that you've kind of been in contact with charles that There has been an overall sense that we really do want to actually change things because I think that You see something that perhaps a lot of consumers don't normally see you know You interact with stakeholders that are within the cocoa industry and I don't know. I think because there's this disconnect for consumers also to um This chain. I think that it's It would be interesting to hear your perspective on as somebody who has interacted with all these stakeholders Whether you really feel that there's this sense that you know, there is change coming like people are really trying to work together to find solutions I think so I'm Today I'm blessed would be on chocolate to have this this partnership where stakeholders are active They are participating in in in meetings sharing experiences Developing new projects and new approaches testing new approaches to see if they can innovate also to To trigger more results. So I I'm indeed I'm blessed with an an active group of stakeholders And actually that already, you know Triggers dynamism on the market with new products appearing on the shelves in belgium that that indeed raised the bar and and and aim at at you know Delivering much more impact for cocoa producers and for for for environment. So definitely there is there is movement And and and we need to we need to be able to support that and so so it's important to To see that as well now I understand That this might not not be visible yet. Also, it's it's This new dynamism on the belgium market is relatively young, but it is strong And so so I am confident that that we are moving That we are moving in in in any sense Now I'd like also to to maybe you know Turn the thing around turn your question around And I'm I'm pretty sure that you will find very little people that are ready to commit to sell or buy a product That is actually supporting child labor or deforestation I I have never met someone that that is actually openly supportive of of having having you know a product that that that breaks that that that actually Is an infraction to human rights or environmental rights. So that is also true and what I see In in in a wide variety of stakeholders around me is that there's there's indeed an acceptance of the of the urgency and acceptance of the need To implement new strategies and and to be bold Also, I think there's acceptance that we don't know enough right now And definitely that that we need smart mixes of interventions just intervening on on one or another aspect Will never be sufficient. And so This discussion is is going much more into detail in the last in the last years And I think that's a very good sign. So my hope Is that with the work that can be done on coco and on this lovely project that chocolate is is that we can Hopefully, you know start sharing learnings also with other sectors and other commodities because The challenges are of course not limited to coco definitely And actually I was just wanted to go back to your point about like coco really being this commodity that could help kind of Not be the solution to issues, but be part of the change to bring and uplift These people out of poverty Because one one I do remember a comment I'm just bringing this up because it's so fresh from our fair trade instagram campaign Last week, but one of our followers had also mentioned. Well, you know The problem is that a lot of these farmers don't know the true value of what there it is that they're producing And do you think that that's actually the case because I think that Um, perhaps Again, we sometimes kind of picture these producers and farmers as maybe like, uh, they'll they actually don't know Um, how much their coco is really worth because maybe they've never even tasted chocolate They don't see how much the world loves chocolate or like in the west or something like that, but I think that I don't know from the sounds of it that might actually be maybe more ignorant. Um to to believe that because it sounds like These producers actually know much more than what we think that they actually know Um, I'm happy you say that. No, I'm happy you say that because, um, you know, I think We need we need to to also look at ourselves Indeed, uh in in all sectors not only in commercial sectors, but also Uh in the nonprofit where I where I've worked for the for the whole of my my life now, right? Um, but indeed that might be a good misconception to to list as well. Um, I would hear Try to make the point that we should avoid The infantilization of producers Um, you know, most of the time Again, they are entrepreneurs. They they know what they do. They generally know why they invest or why they do not invest uh, and so, um I try to to to always remain humble, uh in in that in in relations With many different types of stakeholders, uh, and try to, you know, take a positioning of Willingness to learn from the other ones and from the reality of their context and their needs and so what you see there is indeed, uh cocoa producers It is true that that that Often chocolate doesn't manage to come back Under that form to cocoa producers But I would not say that that they do not know the value of chocolate I would not say that they do not know that this is an important sector When you speak about about I think it's about six million people in Côte d'Ivoire that are working in that sector, you know, it would be really Weird that they don't know that it's an important sector for the global market You know six million people working in it again. That's that's really a lot Uh, and and also, um, you'd be surprised also by the the level of of creativity But also of of efficiency of of the investments and the directions that they want to take as entrepreneurs again, uh and solutions that that, um That might come up from producers might not always appear to make sense to us But this is where I think we need to learn to be humble, uh and stop the infantilization of producers Um, I would love to see the the situation evolve where where producers indeed True better income are empowered to uh to make choices Today and I'll come back to the estomac family the hungry stomach Today the reality is that there's little choice available for producers Cocoa is called a cash crop today. It is the crop that makes most sense Uh to cultivate because it is the one that that that brings cash Uh, even though it is not sufficient cash, uh, even though there's huge challenges But we need to look at the bigger picture. Um, and so Probably the choice of cocoa is the best choice today in that given context Uh, and and I'm not placed to say what a producer should invest or not invest in Uh, I think we need to try to evolve towards the situation where they are empowered To make choices and here I have a firm belief also that people Uh and myself coming from from a family with a lot of uh, a lot of farms and agriculture Um, you know, I I firmly believe that farmers Want to take care of uh Of of the ground that that you know that that that gives them work and and And that allows to to cultivate products. Um, the reality again is that A hungry stomach doesn't have any years and so you cannot For sustainability to be a priority. Um as long As the context Is not favorable for that if you ask a cocoa producer today Uh, what can we do to uh to help you Move towards this situation of a living income The honest response will be buy my cocoa and and buy my cocoa at a at a good price so that I can start investing in You know in in in sustainability in sustainable cocoa or another income generating projects and so yes, um, I think we should There's no there's no simple response to that and yes, definitely there's there's different programs that are looking into that and And and looking how we can create a supportive context for for diversification of income Because there also I think it's one element of the response that we definitely need to look at But also that one will not be sufficient on itself And then in terms of I guess uh other initiatives that Beyond Chocolate is part of Could you maybe share some that you know have been maybe Successful and I put successful in quotes because you know, I think success is kind of difficult to uh, I guess qualify Because it depends how you look at it, uh, I would say successful in the sense that uh That that that The the impact models that are implemented Are an upgrade uh of what has been done before and so I think uh with Beyond Chocolate Indeed, we are lucky to have a lot of uh of active stakeholders and so they bring a lot of expertise and and Uh and strategies on the table that we can then discuss and evaluate and see how how they can how they can build on each other Uh and with this program also, uh, the Belgian government has created a fund to co finance projects That aim at realizing the ambition Of Beyond Chocolate faster and aims at you know developing business models that we can upscale and so Today there's nine projects that are co financed And these are really projects that are focusing on the cocoa value chain and and and indeed on Raising the income and in the first deforestation and ending child labor But also taking into account that this is a process And that we need to to be able to evolve step by step with a coalition of partners that makes sense. Um, and so Uh, definitely there's a couple of interesting projects I would label them as successful in the sense that they are truly innovating and that that uh And that definitely some of these commercial partners have decided to step up their game and to You know to to to develop expertise and and at some point also Take risks because for a company innovating and innovating in sustainability Is also a risk. Um, and so, uh, we have now nine pilot projects With companies that are willing to take risks to actually, um, You know, um support this transition of the sector that that we are aiming for So we have champions. Yeah All right, is there anything remaining that you would like to share charles maybe for uh, yeah our audience Yeah, eat chocolate. I think it's uh, it's it's a good way to to to end this conversation to me. Um You know, I've been lucky enough to to be able to to have some good discussions and and even develop friendships with uh With a couple of cocoa producers Uh, and this helps me a lot today in my job. Um, and uh, and here again, I'd like to stress if um If you'd like to make a difference in the life of cocoa producers as a consumer This is a great excuse to to just put your mouth full of chocolate But then also, um as a consumer be be conscious of your role and dig deeper I think there are products now, uh on the shelves in in almost every supermarket that that that are You know that are going uh a step further that that that really Are ready speak of living incomes and of raising the bar and and of going Going one step ahead and and these These products actually are a great tool for development and and As a consumer if you buy these products, you're actually also supporting the initiative of of the company that is that is showing their willingness to move forward and so um Here really, um, I think it's it's it's time to You know to make our concept of uh of development and and aid evolve Uh, and that we need to empower Uh and not aid, uh, and and this you can do By having great trade relations. Um, and Yeah, basically, that's it. Uh, and that works for cocoa producers But it also works for for the bakery next door or the farmer that is farming a few kilometers away from here Uh, if you want to as a consumer to make a difference Get informed ask questions ask tricky questions allow yourself to fail sometimes. It's okay You know, there's There's nothing in this world is perfect and I think that's okay too. Um, but what we want to do is have movement and dynamism and that's um, that's the only thing that would be unacceptable to me is a stages quo And so as long as there's movement, um, there's something that we can work with to move forward So eat chocolate be part of that movement Huh, maybe we should go buy some today I have my secret stash such as most people


My name is Coach Domino Boware, tennis pro here at Greensfield Park, and welcome to Destination Hometown. My involvement with Family Tennis Night is a spin-off from Southern, which is a non-state coverage for USTA, and South Carolina happened to be one of the states. And we initiated this program because the City of Columbia has less move, and we thought it would be a great idea to partner with Family Tennis Night so we can get families involved with playing tennis because it's a perfect fit for families to do something together. And the City Parks and Rec always encourage families to use their parks and be encouraged to use the tennis courts more. And tennis is a great opportunity for families to do things together. People can sign up by going to the USTA Southern website, say it's Family Tennis Night and register there. And also the City of Columbia has the information on our website. The Family Tennis Night will be held this Saturday at 5 o'clock at 7.30. And we're looking forward to having at least 100 to 50 players and family members out here. We have great volunteers here at Greensfield Park who help support Family Tennis Night. And we also have USTA South Carolina who does and support Family Tennis Night here in the Columbia area. And we're looking forward to the many people we possibly can to entertain, to encourage families to come together, have some fun and fellowship here at Greensfield Park and the City of Columbia Parks Rec. I have to encourage you all to please come out and support Family Tennis Night.


My father, Yuliy Samonovich Boronsky, was born in 1904 in Lithuania of Russian parents and then lived in Moscow for several years. 1917 was the year of the Russian Revolution. My grandparents were factory owners and in 1923 they decided it was time to leave. They moved the family to Paris. They continued to live a very good life before they lost everything in a business partnership that went badly wrong. As you can see my father Yuliy was quite a handsome fellow. Here he is, here he is reclining on a hill above a beach on the French Riviera taking part in a bronze king competition. He was very proud of this photo. My father studied chemical engineering at the University of Toulouse. After the loss of the family business he worked a variety of jobs including operating a deli in downtown Paris. The outbreak of World War II changed everything. My father joined up to fight the Nazis. He served as a captain in the French Army. In June 1940 Paris was occupied and fear was spreading throughout Europe. In June 1940, 350,000 people were rescued in a massive evacuation at Dunkirk. But my father was one of the 40,000 left behind. Captured and interned in a prisoner of war camp in Germany, he managed to stay alive and to keep his Jewishness a secret in part because his then French wife Jean-Elan sent him letters loaded with Catholicisms, letters with tiny little Catholic medals enclosed. When he was released he returned to occupied Paris. He urged his widowed father Simeon to go to live with his sister Rosa, her husband, and their little daughter in Kono, Lithuania, so that he would be safe, which my grandfather did. The Nazis took the town a few days later and afterwards they killed all the Jews. This is a photo of my cousin. I don't know her name. I believe it was taken in the Jewish ghetto in Kono. You can see that it's fairly tattered. My father carried this photo in his wallet until a few months before he died when he gave it to me. My mother was Elsa Margrethe-Rick, born in Denmark in Ringköbing, a small town on the North Sea of Ulan. She worked three jobs to put herself through university, but during the war, like so many of her other countrymen and countrywomen, she was part of the Danish resistance, a hero. And hid Jews in her apartment in Copenhagen. Yuli and Elsa met at a camp for displaced persons in northern Germany run by the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration, where my father was the deputy director and my mother worked as a unilingual secretary and translator. After the war, she was the only person my father told that he was Jewish. Later, they moved to Denmark, where my sister and I were born. My father went to incredible lengths to keep his Jewishness a secret, including having us baptized in this Russian Orthodox Church in Copenhagen, where I was christened Eda Maria Judith Borunski. I guess he threw in the Maria for extra measure. We came to Canada in the 1950s. My mother was artistic and creative, a gentle and very sensitive soul. This loom was one of the few possessions that they brought with them, and she wove some of our clothes. They faced many of the struggles that new immigrants face, recognition of foreign credentials, loneliness, isolation and fear, and they lived alone with their secrets. My father was charming and worldly. He spoke seven languages, a talented photographer, a lover of art, a tyrant, and a tormented soul. And he would sometimes rail against organized religion, shaking his fist against the sky, and wondering how any God in heaven would allow such horrible evil to go on. But we were kids, and we had no idea why. My father loved having me pose in his big Russian hat. When I was seven, he marched us off to the Lampton County Courthouse in Sarnia, Ontario, where he changed our names. And I went from being Eda Maria Judith Borunski to Judy Darcy. Changing our names, and especially changing a Russian name at the height of the Cold War, probably got some neighbors talking. But we were white, and we looked like everybody else in Sarnia, so it wasn't like changing your name from Daliwal or Chang to Darcy, and we were able to just blend in. For forty long years, my father kept his secret. It tortured him, and his torment hurt our whole family in many ways. And then in his eighties, he moved to Toronto. He walked into the Holy Blossom Temple one day and met with the esteemed Rabbi Günter Plaut, and said he wanted to atone for hiding his Jewish heritage for so many years. And then slowly, piece by piece, he revealed his story to his kids about what had really happened to his family, about coming to Canada to keep his family safe. And the veil of secrecy was slowly lifted. And after he died at the age of 93, we found a video that he had taped for Steven Spielberg and the Shoah Foundation that told us even more. This is the photo of the cousin I never knew. It is a reminder of the horror of hatred and bigotry, and of the trauma my father lived with his entire life. The trauma of loss and the trauma of surviving when his family did not. It's also a reminder of why it's important to tell his story, to tell our stories, so that we never, ever forget. In a world where hatred and bigotry are on the rise, it has never been more important for us to come together, to build bridges, not walls. To share our profound belief that as human beings we are better than this, that good people will say no to hatred and bigotry in all its forms, and that we will say yes to diversity and love and community, and most fall to hope.


Newly released data indicates that the U.S. economy continues to soar despite trade talk fears and trade war fears, and of course, all of the turmoil in the Trump White House. Now, one report that speaks most about how politics and policies impact the optimism of the public was out today at the Michigan Consumer Sentiment Index. It rose to a 14-year high. This says folks are thrilled about current conditions, and well, that's this even half of it. I want to dive into this right now, bring in Melissa Armo, a stock swoosh founder and owner, and John Burnett, New York GOP strategic advisor, one empire group founder and CEO. Melissa, this number was absolutely phenomenal. Then on top of it, we had a job report, a jail report, 6.3 million job openings, 250,000 in construction of 68% in one single month. Something is going on in this country and this economy that is absolutely remarkable. People, I hope, aren't listening to the mainstream media. Hopefully, they're watching Fox. I don't know why they watch anything else. Well, actually, the market really rested today, but I think the market's going to wait until next week. So we had all these good numbers in the last seven days. That's true. And the QQQs in Nasdaq made new highs in the last couple of days. But the spy and the Dow are lagging really because I think we're waiting the FOMC meets next Wednesday. So let's break it down a little bit more layman's terms. The Nasdaq stocks sort of took a break this week, led by technology names. They took a break, right? But all these stocks, all these stocks, you think, though, the entire market, rather, you're looking next week with the FOMC, meaning the Fed getting together perhaps as being the catapult or the catalyst to get this rally reignited. That's a great word because sometimes the market needs to rest before it makes a big move and we don't want that big move to be down. We'd better if the big move was up. So we'll see what they say about interest rates, but all this good data leading up to that leads me to believe that it's going to be a big move up. And the technicals are there and the fundamentals are there. The data was so good, but what I loved about the Michigan number there, John, was that you look at it, folks, the households that at the bottom one third of income, their optimism was up 16% in one month. 16%. That is unheard of, unheard of. Now, ironically, the top one third, they were down. There was just the elites. They're worried about tariffs and they're worried about upsetting the status quo. We could already see hardworking Americans are getting optimistic. Things are changing in their lives. Absolutely. What we're seeing is that the president's economic agenda is making America money again, specifically with the working class. So let's forget about the top 10%. Yeah, let's focus on me and the working people. And you know what, Charles? The strength of the economy has not really been seen, right? Because once the disposable income really starts to take effect in terms of the lower taxes, fatter paychecks and things of that nature, people will buy, you know, the consumer discretionary items that they always buy. But we're about to see a surge in new and existing home sales, new cars and other big ticket items. And I think part of that would be household formation, too. I really believe we're going to see a spike in household formation and entrepreneurship things. Again, that sort of faded away. As someone in the market, though, how worried are you about headline risk? Because it seems like the headlines move the market a lot. They certainly have in the last couple of weeks, whether it's, you know, a disc scandal, this person being Jefferson from the White House, whatever it is, they have had more impact on the market than hardcore economic data. That's unfortunate, actually, because these things are things, again, the market has really shook off. But what's so great about 2018 for the overall market, and this will alleviate fears for anyone watching, is that we're in a, it's a unique situation where technicals and fundamentals intersect. And that's rare. It doesn't happen all the time, but we're setting it up. It's setting up. Remember, tax reform just passed. It's only in what March. So when those things set up and move forward, it's going to override any of the things with the headline risk. Even if you have a little move, we could shake it right off. John, you think that's going to, you see that happening as well? Yeah, I actually agree with Melissa. I also want to know and see and observe how well Cutlow and the president gel. And to see what Cutlow actually focuses on, especially in the tariff costs. Well, we know Cutlow is always talking about King Dollar, the strong dollar. He doesn't like tariffs. And he also likes a strong treasury, too. Right. So on the flip side of this, Mnuchin has already said, listen, it's not a weak dollar is not necessarily a bad thing. So there will be some differences of opinions right off the bat there. That's not a bad thing, as long as they can figure out ultimately a game plan and everyone sticks to it. The difference between the White House and a corporate board room, you don't see the infighting in the discussions in a boardroom. You only see the CEO coming out giving it a spiel. With the White House, you see a little bit of the back and forth. But like the president said, that is healthy as long as it's managed. The one thing is, if you're not on board with Trump, you're out. And you know what, I don't think that's a bad thing. It means that he's going to keep pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing his agenda forward. He's not business as usual. All right. Thank you both very, very much. Hey, by the way, I've got a programming alert.


My fellow Americans, you may have heard me say before that one of the things I like most about my job as president is visiting and talking with our young men and women in uniform. I've met them all over the world at our Army outposts along the de-militarized zone in South Korea, on board the USS Constellation, in the hangars of Temple Hof Air Base in West Berlin, at Parris Island in South Carolina, and at the Coast Guard Academy a few days ago. And everywhere, I've seen that their commanders are right. They're the best we've ever had. I mention this because today is Armed Forces Day. Yes, this is the day for all of us to salute the soldiers, sailors, Marines, and aviators who stand sentry on the frontiers of freedom all over the world. We say thanks to the Patriots, who, whether under the midnight star of the Noonday Sun, are always alert so that America's peace and liberty will always be safe. Seven years ago when we came to Washington, we found that our armed forces had been badly neglected. We found airplanes that could not fly and ships that could not sail for lack of trained people and spare parts. The military couldn't recruit enough good people or hold on to those they had. Today that's changed. The men and women in the services are well trained and well equipped. Almost all new recruits have a high school diploma. Never before in peacetime have we had a military, that is, as well prepared. Just last month, the world saw that those who serve America on freedom's front, what they can do when the ships are down. I'm speaking of the story of the USS Samuel B. Roberts, a guided missile frigate and part of our task force to help protect passage through international waters in the Persian Gulf. The Roberts was on patrol when it hit a submerged mine. The mine blew a huge hole in the ship's hull, sent a fireball shooting up the exhaust stack in 150 feet in the air and almost tore the Roberts in half. Luckily, no one was killed. Some might have said that she was doomed, head for the life rafts. Well, that's not what the men of the Roberts said. They were determined to show what they could do. Acting fast, they held the Roberts together with bolts and wire, took care of their injured, escaped the minefield and with the help of other Navy ships got safely to harbor. The captain summed up the spirit and determination of the entire crew. When he closed his report, saying of the Roberts, we saved her, we'll fix her and we'll fight again. And he signed off with their motto, no higher honor. That's the spirit, skill and dedication that has been rebuilt in all our armed services today. No higher honor could be the motto of every American in uniform. Yesterday, to show the nation's gratitude again, I signed into law three bills expanding veterans benefits in education, job training, health, care and other areas. The men and women on duty today should know that we'll still be behind them when their service is done. They also deserve to know that like them, we're all doing our part to keep the peace. This week, I was pleased that the Senate began floor debate on the Intermediate Ranged Nuclear Forces or INF Treaty. This treaty has had a thorough and useful examination in committee. Now the Senate can join with me and show both our allies and adversaries that it too wants to help build a brighter peace and better world. I hope the Senate will provide its consent to ratification of the INF treaty in time to bring it into force during my meetings with the General Secretary in Moscow. On this Armed Forces Day, let's also remember the important role the Armed Services have been playing in supporting law enforcement agencies in the fight against drugs. I asked the Secretary of Defense this week to find even more ways to use military resources against drug smugglers. I also called for a joint task force, executive branch and Congress to draw up a unified plan to fight drugs. I hope the leaders of Congress agree with me that the campaign against illegal drugs must not be hostage to headline seeking and partisan politics. This week, we had another sign of America's strength, its economic strength, which undergirds all of our national security efforts. Trade figures came out from March. America exported in March more than ever before. Against this background of good news on trade, I'm going to veto the ill-advised trade bill Congress has sent me. Once my veto is sustained, we'll work hard to get a responsible trade bill, one that will strengthen, not weaken our economy. One last thought for Armed Forces Day and every day, if you see someone in uniform, would you go up, shake their hand and thank them. Until next week, thanks for listening and God bless you.


Chapter 2 The Nativity of Mary After God had created Mary's immaculate soul, he showed it to the choirs of angels in heaven, and they felt intense joy upon seeing its unique beauty. Then as Mary's soul was infused into her body, her holy mother St. Anne was filled with the Holy Ghost and experienced an extraordinary devotion and happiness. Throughout the rest of her life, and especially during the next nine months, she constantly received new graces and enlightenment concerning the great mystery of the incarnation, and she frequently praised the Lord in canticles of love. One night she felt for the first time a slight tremor from the presence of her daughter in her womb. With profound joy she arose, dressed, and told St. Joachim the happy news, and then both gave thanks to God together. However, in order to increase her merit, God allowed St. Anne to undergo grievous trials during her pregnancy. Although Satan did not know that her daughter was to be the mother of the Saviour, he perceived that a strong spiritual influence proceeded from Anne, and therefore he did his best to tempt and disturb and harm her. But she resisted all his attacks with humble fortitude, patience, and prayer. Then the enraged devil tried to make St. Joachim's house crash to the ground, but Mary's protecting angels prevented such an accident from happening. Next, Satan incited some of St. Anne's women friends to treat her with open scorn and mockery because of her late pregnancy. St. Anne did not permit herself to be upset by this injustice, but in all meekness and humility she bore the insults and acted with still greater kindness toward these women. In the end, as a result of her prayers, they amended their ways. Early in September St. Anne was informed interiorly by the Lord that the time of her daughter's birth was near. Filled with holy joy, she humbly prayed for a happy deliverance and sent for three of her closest women relatives. When she told St. Joachim, he rejoiced and went among his flocks in order to choose the finest lambs, goats, and bulls, which he sent to the temple in care of his servants as an offering of gratitude to the Lord. One evening the three women arrived and embraced St. Anne, congratulating her warmly. Standing with them she poured forth her deep joy and thankfulness in a beautiful, spontaneous canticle, which surprised and thrilled her friends. Then, still standing, they took a light meal of bread, fruit, and water, after which they went to lie down and rest. St. Anne prayed until nearly midnight when she woke her relatives and went with them into her oratory and lit the lamps. From a closet she took a small box containing some relics of the patriarchs of Israel. Then she knelt before her little altar. While she was praying thus, a supernatural light began to fill the room, noticing it the three friends threw themselves onto the floor and hid their faces in awe. Soon the dazzling light entirely surrounded St. Anne, making her invisible. A moment later she was holding in her hands the beautiful, spotless, radiant baby, which she tenderly wrapped in her cloak and pressed to her heart. With tears of fervent love and joy, she gazed at her child and then raising her eyes to heaven and holding up the baby, she prayed, O Lord and Creator, with eternal thanks I offer thee this blessed fruit of my womb, which I have received from thy bounty without any merit of mine. But how shall I be able to treat such a child worthily? God gave her to understand that she was to bring up her daughter with all motherly love and care, but without any outward show of reverence while retaining inwardly her profound veneration for the future mother of the Messiah. In this marvelous yet natural childbirth, St. Anne had been free from the usual labor and pains experienced by mothers. Now she herself bathed and wrapped the babe in red and gray swaddling clothes. As the bright mystic light vanished, the three relatives got up and to their keen surprise and joy perceived a lovely child in her mother's arms. Then they sang a hymn of praise and thanks to the Lord while many invisible guardian angels also greeted the tiny Mary with heavenly music. Later St. Anne retired to her room and lay down on her bed with her baby in a little cradle next to her and St. Joachim was called in. The holy old man knelt beside the bed, deeply moved at the sight of this lovely daughter for which he and his dear wife had waited and suffered for twenty long years. While warm tears flowed freely down his cheeks, he carefully took the baby in his arms and sang a fervent hymn of praise to God. Then as he tenderly embraced his daughter and put her back in the cradle, he murmured with touching humility and piety. Now I am ready to die. At the moment of Mary's birth, Almighty God gave to her pure soul a mystical vision of the blessed Trinity in heaven and by a miraculous privilege, he endowed her from birth with a full use of her reason and all her senses. Thus like many of the saints though to a far greater degree even as an infant she knew and loved God with all her heart. And as soon as she opened her eyes on earth, she perceived with keen affection her good parents St. Anne and St. Joachim and then she saw the many angels which God had assigned to guard and protect her throughout her life. The Archangel Gabriel was sent to announce the great news of the birth of Mary to all the prophets, patriarchs and souls in Limbo. Upon hearing that at last the mother of the Redeemer was in the world, they rejoiced and praised God for his mercy toward mankind. In all nature there was at this time an extraordinary movement of joy and many good people felt an unusual spiritual exultation without knowing its cause. On the other hand many evil men and possessed persons felt sorely disturbed. Near the temple in Jerusalem old Simeon was awakened by the shouts of a possessed man who cried. I must flee, all of us must flee, a virgin has been born. Simeon prayed fervently and the devil left the man. Anna the prophetess and another holy woman were shown in visions that a child of election had been given to Israel. The next day many friends and neighbors of St. Anne and St. Joachim came to see the baby and congratulate the happy parents. Everyone was deeply touched upon seeing little Mary lying in her cradle wrapped in her red and gray swaddling clothes and there was general rejoicing. Now in heaven the blessed Trinity announced to the choirs of angels our chosen one shall be called Mary and this name is to be powerful in grace.


Hey everyone, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of CrowdStrike, Thalcon 23, live from Caesars Palace in Las Vegas.  This is only day one of our coverage, two days. Lots more to talk about tomorrow, but we're excited to have one of our alumni back. Adam Myers rejoins us. SVP of Counter-Adversary Operations at CrowdStrike. Adam, great to have you back on theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. Tell me a little bit about your role. SVP Counter-Adversary Operations. Give us the history on the role. Well, it's changed a little bit from last year because we just launched Counter-Adversary Operations. So what we kind of realized was, and I'm sure you heard from George Kurtz earlier today about how the adversaries are getting faster, demonstrably faster. We had our threat hunting report come out a couple weeks ago and the average breakout time was 79 minutes and the fastest was seven minutes. So we've kind of acknowledged that these adversaries are getting faster and faster every single year and every month really. And so we took our threat hunting team Overwatch, which is kind of industry leading managed threat hunting and we took our Intel team and we kind of co-located them into the same organization. So they have a much tighter integration now. So as the Intel team finds something interesting, they could pass it to the threat hunting team much faster. You can go out and find something on the platform and then bring that back in and then find new leads for the Intel team. So it becomes like a virtuous cycle, if you will, of threat hunting and threat intelligence kind of working together. Yeah, we used to talk about Patch Tuesday meant Hack Wednesday. Now you're saying Patch Tuesday means zero day Tuesday. Yeah. So, I mean, a lot has changed in the last year. A lot of times we do these conferences, it's like, yeah, what's new? Well, we announced a couple new products, but pretty much everything's the same, but it's almost like nothing's the same these days. Yeah, it's wild. I mean, when you think about the enterprise security landscape, there's been so much advancement there. Things like Falcon and the whole EDR market has, the analogy I've been giving is that it's very much like trying to take a rocket launcher into the airport. These EDR tools are there and they're able to catch malicious binaries or suspicious tools as soon as they cross the line. The adversaries didn't try to come up with a more creative way to get past it, necessarily. Now they're taking an easier path and they're going after identities. Stealing a user's identity either through social engineering, phishing the credentials, buying it on an underground forum. Once they get that identity, they can log in very much like a legitimate user. And rather than bringing tools that might be alerting with them, now they're moving laterally. They're living off the land with existing tools on the enterprise or they're bringing what we call a remote monitoring and management tool. These are legitimate tools lots of admins might use, things like any desk or fleet deck. And so they're kind of using things that will be under the radar and they're going after infrastructure that's either not monitored, unmanaged type devices or things like hypervisors that don't support modern security tools. And they're deploying their ransomware there. So now we've seen kind of the entire market move from endpoint security into identity security. And that's where the real, the new kind of wild west is in the identity space. Is dwell time getting worse? Yeah, I mean, no, because the operations are happening so much faster. Dwell time doesn't even really matter anymore. Dwell time used to be the measure of how long were they in the environment before you found them, right? And so that very typical with like China and a long tail espionage operation stealing all of this intellectual property, they wanted persistent access. But as we're looking at the threats today, they're hit it and quit it.  And so because they're moving so quickly, dwell time isn't really even that relevant. It's kind of irrelevant, yeah. I mean, even a year ago last winter, not less than two winters ago, dwell time was right, the solar winds hack. Right, that was all about hanging out. 200 something days that they were on the environment, right? But, and that's terrifying from a long scale operation. But if you look at how quickly there's been two supply chain attacks that we found this year with the Falcon platform and we notified the vendor within a week or so of it happening. And so think about that in the context of a solar winds. We went from 270, 280 days, whatever it was, down to six, seven days, that the adversaries have to work harder and faster. And it's because of the types of things we're doing, counter-adversary operations, one of our mandates is to disrupt the adversaries, to introduce things that kind of make their job harder, waste their cycles, waste their time. And because of that, they're moving, they're also trying to keep up and move faster. And that's always been the high level math, but the actual equation has completely changed. Talk a little bit about, from a speed perspective, you talked about how the adversaries are getting faster and faster. They obviously have access to great technology. But what are some of the speedy things that CrowdStrike is doing to help reduce the risk to organizations and be able to detect things and reach us faster? Yeah, so just to give you a sense of the time, in 2021, the breakout time was 98 minutes. In 2022, it was 84 minutes. Adversary got 14 minutes faster. We recomputed that six months later, back in August, and it was 79 minutes, right? And so the adversary keeps whittling down that time. And we have so much of the CrowdStrike racing, the F1 stuff here, there's an F1 car over there. And George was telling me, I'm not big into racing, but George was telling me that with racing, they don't look at minutes, taking minutes off each lap, or even seconds. They're looking at tenths or hundreds of a second. And that's where we're getting with the adversary's speed. They're getting faster and faster, and we're going to be down to not competing, breakout time changes in minutes, but seconds. And so that gives you a sense of how important speed is in this mix. And so one of the things that we're really excited about is Charlotte AI and how we integrate that through things like Falcon Fusion. So we can not only allow people to use our platform faster to take action and to find and to stop things, but we can also lower the bar of how well trained they need to be. So taking what would have been a super high level sock analyst and now giving a mid-level sock analyst that same ability to do that with things like Charlotte, where we can help simplify that process by making it natural language and using generative AI to really speed up that process, because we need to not only slow the adversary down with things like counter-adversary operations, but we need to speed up the defenders through things like Charlotte AI and some of the other exciting announcements we have coming out this week. So is AI ultimately of greater benefit to the attackers or the defenders? You know, I think for right now for the defenders, because we're able to take, I think about Falcon Intelligence. We produce 1,300 pages of intelligence per month, right? That's a lot of written prose that people need to read and understand and internalize and then turn that into action. So with something like a large language model and what we've done with Charlotte AI, you can ask questions of that entire rolling corpus of intelligence as it changes and get those answers very quickly. Who's targeting me? What are they after? Where have we seen them in our environment? Network contain that machine? All of these things, it's almost like minority report. And I'd be remiss to not say, Crouch Tech's 12 years old today. We launched the company September 19th, 2011. And when we were doing that, the first meeting we had, I remember being in the boardroom at our venture capital and we were saying it's going to be like minority report where you could take things on the platform and use the intelligence and all of the capabilities to make those decisions. And we're here today. It's 12 years later, you can do it. Happy birthday. Yeah, and the VCs, their reaction was I'm in? Oh, they were already in at that point. They were like, how are you going to do it? Hurry up. Yeah, get going. What's been some of the customer feedback as you guys have launched the counter-adversary operations? I know the customer base is very strong, it's growing. What's been some of the feedback from them on some of the things strategically that CrowdStrike is doing to help them really defend well? Well, to be fair, I think when we announced it publicly in August, everybody was like, okay, but what does that mean? So when we launched it, we had obviously the announcement that we were doing this and we integrated the two teams. We released the threat hunting report, Nowhere to Hide, which talked about how the adversaries had advanced in the identity space and organizations really need to invest in identity security as well as enterprise security. And we announced what we called identity-based threat hunting. So now our threat hunting teams are not only looking at the platform data and all of the nuances of how the platforms operate and the operating system and the computer, but they're also looking at the behaviors of the people. And so we brought, I think, what would be the first identity-based threat hunting to market. And this week we're announcing the integration of all of our elite services. So we have these white glove services that you could add to our intelligence subscription to our Overwatch subscription. And so we're going to be moving into a world where that's all one consolidated offering and you don't have one person focused on your Overwatch threat hunting and one expert on your Intel. It's one analyst who will support all of your threat hunting and threat intelligence needs with kind of one throat to choke, if you will. And so it is a much more seamless go-to-market and seamless experience for the customer. And there's a lot more that will be announcing in the coming months, but this is from a CAO perspective. That's what we've announced this week. Explain to people, because when people hear identity, they think IAM, they think OCTA. Oh, CrowdStrike, competing with OCTA now. But no, OCTA's a partner. Explain what you mean by your treating identity essentially as an endpoint versus what an OCTA would do. So I always kind of start with zero trust, right? And I think the market has adopted this whole zero trust messaging, but for me it's really a methodology. Zero trust is kind of like need to know in the government space, right? If you don't need to know, I'm not going to give you that access. And so as you implement a zero trust methodology, now you have to start to enforce that. So you put controls in place to ensure that zero trust is working the way it should. And so with identity protection, we wrap around all of that. Partners like OCTA and all of the other IDPs that are out there, they're the IDP. That's not the space we're trying to be in, but we can wrap around that. So if Adams account, he usually logs in from an iPhone in Washington, D.C. and today he's coming from an iPhone in Oxford, UK and he time traveled, there's no way to go, magically that quickly from Washington to Oxford. Let's ratchet up the monitoring on Adams account and say everything needs two factor authentication. And what's really cool about our identity offering is there's things that don't support two factor authentication, like remote desktop protocol. There's no built-in two factor auth for that, but we can actually enforce that and say before you can initiate this remote desktop protocol session, you need to go through two factor auth. And so that's kind of the power of the identity protection is saying you could choose who you're using in your authentication and identity stack. We're going to put a big hug around that and we're going to keep it safe. What about two factor authentication with only SMS? What are your thoughts on that versus having a third party authenticator? Can you explain sort of the risks? How people should think about that? What you would tell your family? Yeah, I advise everybody to stay away from text-based two factor auth. One of the big threat actors everybody's hearing about today is Scattered Spider. A lot of information about them out there. And one of the things that they're really good at is SIM swapping. So your phone, you don't have it out, oh there it is, your phone has a SIM card in it, whether it be an eSIM or a physical piece of plastic. And that effectively has a unique identifier, which is tied to your account at your service provider. So if I'm a threat actor and I either get unauthorized access to your service provider, or I call them up and I social engineer them pretending to be you, I effectively switch the SIM number for your phone with my phone. And now anytime you get a text message it comes to me and anytime you get a phone call it comes to me. So if I'm trying to attack your identity, I get your username and password, maybe I've phished it or maybe it leaked and I bought it on an underground forum, all I have left is to bypass that two-factor auth. If that two-factor comes via text message, SIM swapping is easier than most people realize. And so now I can SIM swap your phone number and I'm you. And you got access to everything. I'm you. Your bank accounts, your crypto, everything. Yeah, it's incredible. But it's amazing to me, Adam, that there are a number of, for instance, brand-name financial institutions that only have SMS-based two-factor authentication. And I think, I don't know, maybe it's just inertia, legacy infrastructure, technical debt. Well, you got to figure who they're trying to service, right? Their customers are looking for an easy solution and having an off application, having some other mechanism or a biometric or a physical token. It's expensive. It's difficult to troubleshoot. People get confused. So text is the easiest way to do it. But I'll tell you, there's a couple of things people could do to stay safe, which is every provider, certainly here in the US, has the ability to lock the SIM so you could add enhanced security to lock your SIM. Lock your SIM, people. Lock your SIM. And then the other thing that you could do is use like a Google voice type of number because that doesn't rely on a SIM. So if you have the text message going to that account, you still have to keep that account safe. And so you could end up down a rabbit hole of accounts, but there's ways to mitigate that risk. But I think that the big concern is most people aren't thinking about that. That's the thing. People aren't aware of it. They're hitting the easy button. And that's also part of that's cultural, part of that's awareness and education. You talked about scattered spider and obviously that MGM hack was social engineering and got into a person via LinkedIn. So talk about the awareness and the education. Does your group provide that to customers and the ecosystem because that the people problem is consistent? That's always been the thing. I think, you know, going all the way back to the Kevin Mitnick days back in the late 90s, social engineering was a big concern. And you listen to some of these phone calls that you hear with the social engineering and it's incredible just how effective they are. Just calling up, I lost my password and a help desk wants to help them out and so that's how it goes. So social engineering is extremely powerful but what's kind of interesting is if you think about how that landscape has changed, you know, a year ago it was a lot of word documents with embedded macros and cobalt strike and it was a pretty regular and regimented tool chain of that attack and over the last year it's completely shifted to your point earlier. It's completely shifted and now it's social engineering stealing the access to the credential, bypassing the multi-factor auth if it's there. And by the way, you could also not target the telephone company or the mobile provider to get that multi-factor auth bypassed. You could do a multi-factor authentication fatigue attack where if it's a push notification, you're constantly getting that push message three o'clock in the morning, you're going to be like, I'm just trying to go to sleep and you accept it.  There's a synchronization issue.  And they never realized that they just let somebody into the, so there's lots of different ways to get at it. Definitely. What's your favorite customer story that you think really just shines the spotlight on the value that CrowdStrike is delivering to your customer base? Well, I try not to go into any customer specifics because they trust us to keep that stuff internal and secret and off the record, but there's been a number of situations where we've had customers who have called us up to thank us for stopping a breach, or I was talking to a customer earlier today and he said, hey, you guys saved our butt a year ago and still happy and thank you for that. So without going into too many details, I could say that we've had a lot of great successes helping customers. Our services team is out there every day and they're hitting these environments a couple hours after Scattered Spider gets there and they've got a whole playbook that they start working with the customer to keep them safe. And if the customer listens to the direction, then we're able to keep them one step ahead because on average, Scattered Spider about eight hours before their mission accomplished. In and out. Wow. Wasn't it Mattel on stage today, was it Sean talking about? They didn't give specifics, but in terms of kind of the kudos that you're referencing that you've been hearing for organization saying, you saved our hinds. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, I mean, we work very closely and I tell everybody, I don't see customers, I see partners, right? We're in this together, we're here to help you and I give, when I talk to customers, partners, I give them my phone number and I'm like, hey, call me up if you ever need anything because we're in this together, it's us versus them. And that's the whole approach to CrowdStrike and 12 years ago, we launched this to say, you don't have a malware problem, you have an adversary problem and we're here to help our customers deal with those adversaries and to fight through it. Yep, help those adversaries. Yeah, the CISO from Mattel said, CrowdStrike paid for itself, I was like, oh boy. That's right. Here goes his bill. Yeah, that's right, that's right.  Thanks for having me, yeah. The counter-adversary operations group, what you guys are doing there and the impact that it's making. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Our pleasure. For our guests and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's day one coverage of CrowdStrike Falcon 23. Right next up is Dave and I going to do a CUBE Insights. Really kind of give you an analysis of today and some of the nuggets that Dave got out of some of our guests. Stick around, we'll see you in a minute.