Good morning everybody. I'm Pablo Petrova for who they don't know me yet. I am director of the Arts and Theatre Institute in Prague and I would like to welcome you all of you on at the open session, Culture of Mobility in the Time of Climate Change, which is part of the cycle of ITR and Coferences focus point. The public session it's organized by the ITI in association is the International Network of Mobility Information on the Move and the space we are right now, CAMP, Center for Architecture and Metropolitan Planning and I would like to thank our partner as well. The conference is also a highlight of a close meeting General Assembly of the On the Move Network, which finished yesterday and On the Move has been engaged in different aspects of mobility, including sustainability for a long time. The Secretary General of On the Move, Marie Lussure, will tell you certainly a lot about later this morning. Also the ITI is engaged in mobility for a long time. We are interested in mobility in all its shapes, such as traditional international cooperation, the program of exchange residences in different fields of arts since 2004. Travel grants go and see mobility for Czech cultural workers since 2013 or since 2018 information support of mobility through the newly established Czech Mobility Info Point, which is part of the International Network of Information Points in Europe. The natural and logical feature is that we are interested also in issues regarding culture sustainability. Having been inspired by European Culture Foundation in Amsterdam, member of On the Move Network, we have introduced this year a new criteria for assessing applications in our go and see program in accord with the principles of sustainability and sustainability of living. This year's edition of the Prague Quadrennial, the world's largest exhibition of stage design and theater architecture in Prague, which will happen in June, will be special due to responsible treatment of natural sources and sustainability living. And finally, as an institution, we also joined other Czech cultural institution and organizations in signing the appeal to support the announcement of the state of climate emergency in Prague, which is the first step from the field of culture to push policy makers to start actively thinking about changes because we are in front of changes, complex changes in our mind and in the whole system itself. And I am looking forward to our inspiring speakers, but before, I would like to introduce moderator of public session Barbara Dolezalova, which is part of our Czech Mobility Info Point and I give you the floor. Good morning. I would like to briefly say what we are going to do this morning. The session, we will start with two keynotes. After, we will have short coffee break and then we will meet here again for a panel discussion with our eight brilliant panelists. Before I give the floor to Václav Novotny, I would like to welcome Shtipan, who is the director of CAMP, of this beautiful space we are here, and introduce you CAMP. Thank you very much. I'm super happy that you're all here. We're at CAMP, which is the Center for Architecture and Metropolitan Planning. You've caught us in a little bit of a weird time between two exhibitions. As you can see, there are men preparing some public space obstacles, because the next exhibition that we have is called City Block, and it is about urban design and barriers in public space. CAMP has been open for two years, and it serves as a platform, as a sort of an urban hub for anyone, for architects, for the public, for investors, developers, and basically anyone who's interested in the future development of Prague. So we are here from Tuesday to Sunday from 9 to 9, if anyone wants to come in and ask what is going to be built in my neighborhood, why is this street closed, what is the plan for this development, this is CAMP, and this is why we are here. So I'm happy that you're here, and please enjoy our space. Thank you. Today we will talk about mobility, or sustainable mobility, from different perspectives. We will talk about what we can do locally, and also about some global contexts. So the very first speaker is the one who will present the local context of Prague Sustainable Planning, Václav Novotnyi. Thank you. Great. Good morning for everyone. My name is Václav Novotnyi. I work for IPR Prague, which is an organization funded by Prague. We are an expert body for city development, for strategic planning for Prague. We are not the real city hall, but we are organization founded by city hall. So we are Prague. And my office of transport infrastructure is an expert body for infrastructure, transportation infrastructure planning, and we cooperate with city hall, with city organizations and companies, and we try to create a new strategic document, consultation on new strategic documents, and also we have a transport model office. And we are a part of our group for Prague Mobility Plan. My presentation is about trends, global trends for mobility and the solution, especially for cities, but also in a global. Maybe as you can know, population of earth is still growing. Now we are about seven or maybe eight billion billion of inhabitants on the earth. And there is a possibility to have around 17 billion in 2100. There is also possibility to decrease, but I think it's not the real scenario. Most of people live in Asia and still more and more in Africa. The trend, the progress of the inhabitants is still growing, especially in Asia and Africa, but Europe and America is plus minus the same or will be the same or a little bit increasing. Maybe you know that the life expectancy is still growing also. So the population is still older and older. You can see on this chart that North America and Europe have the longest life expectancy, but Africa not, but the trend is to have longer life expectancy. So that's the reason why the population of the earth is still growing. This is a fertility rate and this is the second reason that many of emerging state or countries still have the higher fertility rate that, for example, North America or Europe or Russia. Most of people in the earth live in urban areas. You can see the points with urban areas with more than one million people and it's true that this number is still increasing from three percent in 1800 to around 51 or 52 percent these days and will increase to 70 percent perhaps in 2050. You can see these urban areas on the maps, for example this urban area around the Los Angeles. You can see that the scale is 36 kilometers, this one and this very interesting and big area is full of housing and some paved spaces. This is a bit of a problem for the planning because most of people live in this kind of area as is in this chart shown. For example in Prague or it's a global trend that these charts are from Prague and Prague metropolitan area. People still buy more and more cars. This red one is for whole Czech Republic and this blue one is only for Prague and you can see that more and more people live in urban areas around the world still buy more and more cars and use more and more cars. It's a performance of the car traffic and you can see the increasing from Czech Republic from 1990 until today's that it's a global trend. It's a global trend and that's true that as people have more and more cars and use more and more cars they travel more and more so they do more trips in Prague or Prague metropolitan area. You can see still more trips per day so it's thousands of trips per day in the metropolitan area of Prague. As we have more and more money and more and more leisure time we travel and this is a trend of the Prague visitors. This chart shows the Czech resident it's increasing still increasing not so much but from around the world people travel to Prague and during last five years it's more than 1.5 million visitors per year more. So this traveling around urban areas and in our leisure time consume some energy and produce the carbon dioxide. It's this blue line it's still increasing because we have more trips more car performance so we have more energy consumption with more produce of carbon dioxide. This is the concentration of the carbon dioxide on the earth so it's connected and this is a global warming as a result of our producing greenhouse gases. So the reason is climate change we know it we know that the reason or the consequences is the rising sea levels more intense heat waves more intense rains increase the loss. So the result is shorter fossil fuels party time as we have it now and we try to have climate change mitigation or we could think about it and try to speak about the problems and about the energy consumption. And for example in Czech Republic the most of energy consume the car transport it's this the highest highest charge the second is the airplanes and it's true that in case of airplanes there is not so big performance as in car traffic because if you live somewhere in rural area it's necessary to have a car to travel somewhere for shopping or for some services and so on. But if we recount it per unit per power per persons and kilometer it's this unit you can see that the first position for the energy consumption per unit have airplanes for traveling it's still in the Czech Republic and the second is the car traffic. That's the reason why it's obvious to travel by plane for longer distances and for the middle distances it's the best way to use trains and now for example we try to have some more train lines in Czech Republic but the infrastructure is full so we have so big problems especially in Prague and around Bernou and Ostrava and try to build a new infrastructure and this new infrastructure have to be especially high speed rail and high speed rail it's the solution for the distances around 400 or 500 kilometers of distance or travel distance for example in Germany they have so big so wide network of high speed rails so for example if you buy a ticket plane ticket from Prague to Cologne you will you could buy a ticket for plane and then for a high speed rail because it's much much more shorter and much more sustainable but it's the it's still one plane ticket but divided into ticket for plane and for train so the trains the starting point of the mobility planning in every country it's much more the same as in Prague so we face two sub-organization especially residential this is the progress for number of inhabitants of Prague so you could see the increasing and this is a increasing of the metropolitan area around the Prague increasing and you can see that the progress is higher in the suburban area so it means more people will travel by car because it's a longer and we have not in this moment some good rail infrastructure to to save it more and more people do more trips and it means in increasing traffic performance still more and more people buy more automobiles or cut traffic mode still more people buy goods via internet and we have also some new trends in a lifestyle and in a society so we face a new technology time a new lifestyle time for everyone and as we know more and more information our processes and planning and implementation and implementation is still more and more complicated so the processes are slower the consequences is to increase intensity and performance of car traffic and number of passengers which has a result in infrastructure bottlenecks as you can see on this picture that there is this yellow problem problem part of infrastructure of a car infrastructure in Prague and the operating costs will or still is increasing so the financing of the existent infrastructure is unsustainable in Prague we try or it's maybe the same in every city that it's necessary to reform the transportation city management because the processes are much more complicated and different from the last time but the public is still slower than the private companies for example the changes in the private companies in Prague we have many problems with the model split you can see that more and more people especially in the suburban area this is the suburban area this is cross bordering trips use cars from 2007 2015 it's increased in two persons it's not so much but it's still increasing and that's the problem so almost 80 percent of people use cars for commuting to to Prague and in Prague it's a positive trend more and more people use use pedestrian traffic it's this last blue chart but more and more people live in suburban area so on this chart you can see that still increasing still increasing number of cross bordering commuters so what's the solution for this situation for this state of the art maybe maybe you heard about the cyclistic infrastructure and cyclists yes it's one part of the solution but not the only solution or maybe you heard about some future in a car traffic so today we have some congested areas in cities so the future in for electric cities is the same maybe you heard about the shared mobility as a uber or something like that but the future is the same and maybe you heard about the autonomous mobility and the future is the same because our problem is especially the space in the in the cities besides the environmental and health problems you can see some stadium baseball stadium in LA there is the main pitch this is the seating for for people but this people need this area for parking their cars so it's impossible to have this so big spaces in the cities so the future of the car traffic in the high urbanized areas it's not so so what is the solution in the global to have a connection between between the modes and to have some strategic documents for possibility to connect every modes into one uh synergic system so in cities now we try to have mobility plans mobility planning process and this sustainable mobility plans it's a strategic plans to satisfy the mobility needs of the citizens of the visitors and so on and the main goal is to have a better quality of life in the city functional areas not only in the city but in the whole urban areas these mobility plans uh apply integration integration all modes and all stakeholders into one document and into one process and participated in this process and to apply evolution to uh have never ending uh process not only the document which i had somewhere on the shelter but no with no application so the mobility planning is a process is is not only one document uh so maybe you heard about some transport strategies so we could have some uh subsystem strategies and if we connected into one document we have a transportation strategy and if we are connected with some other branches non uh transport potential uh branches as a development participation demographic prognosis environment or others into one unit you will get a sustainable mobility plan for the mobility planning we have some methodologies from europe and union from from check ministry of transport many cities in EU countries have own mobility plan it's the second third edition and now many cities in Czech republic have a mobility plan Prague still not we are still waiting for improvement but we hope it will be very soon i hope in next month mobility plan for Prague it's about the reconstruction of existing especially road infrastructure but not to build so many new roads but the backbone of the whole metropolitan area is the rail electric transport and other modes connected to this this backbone and also to have uh Prague a freeway outer city ring and this is the biggest new road of our mobility plan until 2030 and also to have sustainable logistics less consequences to environment and health from transportation and to have better public space and modern technology in transportation maybe you heard about the telematics connectivity of cars buses and so on to infrastructure and the concept of mobility as a service in which the user the passenger have the seamless mobility commuting so it's a mainly about some very good application of an integration all mobility possibilities into one application as i said mobility plan it's about the participation so it's much more about the people who use the transportation systems so for example in Prague we had some workshops with stakeholders in every in each part of our process this is also with the stakeholders but also we had some some workshops or some some kind of participation with citizens so we had some web questionnaire or a sociologic survey and panel discussion exhibition and so on and it's very necessary to ask the people which is which art they need and also half of the success is marketing so we try to uh build some brand we had some web page or have some web page still to promote our remote mobility plan on the social media and some announcement in television radio and so on but i think the very important part is to have personalized marketing and influencers and maybe that's for us and for us for you and for us very important because the culture should or have influencers and should promote the sustainable mobility because if for example you organized some some transportation or commuting action you can promote it via your presence in in culture so i think it's very very important and and we thank you to promote the sustainable mobility because it's the way how to got the sustainable mobility to really citizens and really people so and what's this mobility sustainable mobility marketing about it's an increasing of the space efficiency of transportation it's a reducing of the carbon footprint especially consumption of energy and increasing performance and reliability because for example you can know that many people are stuck in some traffic jams in the highways and they they spend much more time during the years the situation is still worse it's about the increasing safety and security and also about the financial sustainability which is a bigger problem in the sustainability sustainable mobility but we could try to to say it's more sustainable because of negative consequences especially for the health and environment so it's a external external costs and improving human health and environment because if some actor says that the bicycles are great or to use public transportation it's not bad it should work and of course improving the accessibility of transport you also public transport is try to be more accessible for everybody and I think that's a very good way to got the transportation especially public transportation to everyone there is some sources if you want and thank you for your attention I don't know if there is some space for questions maybe not thank you and now I would like to invite Sandra Krzywa from European Cultural Foundation who will talk about step program which is quite a big inspiration for our program go and see so I'm really curious to hear about it Sandra thank you very much Barbara hello good morning everybody my name is Sandra Krzywa I'm working with the European Cultural Foundation in the Netherlands we are based in Amsterdam and I'm working there for the step mobility program as a grants administrator today I'm going to talk about our green the implementation of our green strategy into our mobility program first of all I'm going to tell you a few words about the European Cultural Foundation in case you shouldn't have not heard about us yet then I'm going to introduce you to the step program briefly and then I'm going to explain to you how we developed the idea of a green sustainability strategy into our mobility program so the European Cultural Foundation is an independent foundation operating on the policy level and advocacy level since 1954 and culture for us is ideally ideally a channel an open channel to a democratic Europe and especially an inclusive and Europe of solidarity and freedom the first initiation of a cultural exchange of a cultural and creative exchange and creative expression was in 1994 with the program so-called apex changes program back then we emphasized strongly on the establishment of networking contacts between the former communist countries in the east and the western countries before I go into the into step itself I want to introduce you to Azald's project which has been granted in 2018 which is called those little things everybody knows she is traveling by bike from Spain to Italy visiting eight cities within three months it is a travel of almost 1500 kilometers for which she has been receiving 700 euros her project makes makes it the most greenest granted mobility project that ever granted in the step in the step frame her Azal is a refugee since she has been fleeing her country Iran to live in Italy in 2015 and she's a designer and has an architecture background and through her project those little things everybody knows she aims to tackle the topic around otherness she aims to collaborate with eight different organizations and aims to create space for personal stories through her talk exhibitions and through shared illustrations and documentation around the topic of otherness she on a broader scale she aims to establish a network of refugee and migration artists so Azald's project has been one of 2700 projects that we have been granted since 2003 step stands for supported travel for engaged partnerships and we award culture practitioners and artists for the realization of of their projects in the cooperation with a partner organization across Europe and its neighboring countries so we aim to give an incentive we have been established in 2003 how the way I mentioned it already and the main incentive for the establishment of step was actually to give an incentive for cultural cohesion beyond the European Union countries in response to the EU enlargement back then to the east in 2004 to give you a short idea on on step in a statistical in a statistical frame in 2018 we have been granting 358 grantees and projects which has been a pivotal year for step our grants or let's say like this our applications doubled in 2018 compared to 2017 our top 10 departure countries you can see here of which the United Kingdom very interestingly has been our record application record application destination country so we received 93 applications to depart from the United Kingdom within the European sphere of which 56 projects have been granted this has been closely followed by reception reception of 80 applications for Germany the Netherlands and then Italy for the our check constituency we received or let's say another way we granted eight step projects yearly since 2015 holding different nationalities and traveling to countries like Poland and Jordan coming to the core message of my presentation the issue around climate change have been an emergency since many many years already in 2000 we started thinking about the idea of implementing a strategy already in 2009 2010 2010 marked our 15 years or 10 years anniversary for step which we took as an opportunity to change our guidelines into a more greener direction so basically what happened was we that we detected the urgency to counteract on the global issue with higher simulation with train travel since the step travel grant scheme has always been a highly polluting grant scheme because of of course mostly most grantees have also been traveling by airplane social change has also been sorry social change has always been high on the agenda of the step travel grant scheme as Ada Wong former member of the culture and heritage commission already said that the cultural sector is a natural change agent and it should be perceived like that especially by us the cultural foundations it is an instigator and provocateur and the paradigm shifts and mindset changes so we took this as a possibility that we can change something through a granting program and through enabling the possibility to travel within the european sphere and its neighboring countries to grasp the development or yeah the development of a green strategy we have to understand where we took it off from our former guidelines our guidelines changed increasing changed very strongly since 2011 back then we were focusing on on a categorization around european neighborhood regions which which you can see here so according to varying regions as the european union and after countries then so basically we awarded grants in between these five categorization countries intra travel in between european countries countries was not allowed back then because we were strongly promoting on the possibility to enhance as i said the cultural cohesion between cultural region between country regions so we focused on the european union as a country group then the western Balkans the MUBR countries how we call it back then the Moldova Ukraine Belarus and so on South Caucasus countries at Georgia Armenia and Azerbaijan and north african countries i want to introduce the analysis of our of the green strategy by taking the example of the travel between Zagreb Budapest as a short distance opportunity to travel and Zagreb and Amsterdam as a country connect connection as an example for long distance travel so we took the analysis from here because we said a short distance is in our two immediate neighboring countries back then Zagreb was a part of our western Balkans group and Budapest of our european union group the long distance travel was taken as an idea um to to see um to to see the longest or one of the longest distances in between from one european point to another in the north so this took us so for the 2011 guidelines in this case both distances um Zagreb Budapest and Zagreb Amsterdam would have been awarded with 400 euros grants no matter the transportation type taken from here we took the analysis to so we took the analysis to eco passenger for those who haven't heard of eco passenger yet is it is a very straightforward simple tool to a calculation tool to compare the the ecological footprint regarding or according to transport transportation methods used so further let's start with the short distance example the short distance Zagreb Budapest connection would have been a 300 is a 350 kilometer distance for our train example this would have cost 14 or almost 15 kilogram co2 emissions for for duration of six hours compared to our airplane travel this would have been immensely higher of course with 64 kilogram co2 emissions with a half duration in the time period traveled of course the price and price difference is again quite immensely as you can see here but from the environmental environmental aspect this resulted in a three fourth less carbon dioxide emission for the train travel than the airplane travel so quite a huge difference for the long distance long distance example of course we again have a high difference in emissions which is quite obvious and clear the distance is 1000 kilometers more for the longer distance and again this would have been as I said 400 euro ground again but here the very crucial aspect that we have to strongly consider is of course the time difference obviously per airplane travel distance of 1300 kilometers would have been for our strip and back then and per train this would have been increasingly more so this would this is of course one of the main reasons our grantees always decided to go and travel by plane airplane just to save time and have more time for a project implementation in the destination country so we took these numbers and this and this specific example and established according to this reason new categorizations which framed in a way that we categorized instead of country regions we went and distributed our our grant amounts according to kilometer groupings short distance medium distance and long distance long distance of course this is not a very specific long distance but taken the european sphere we can say that this is a long distance trip 1500 kilometers and more since this is our constituency that we are tackling so so basically what happened was that for the same trip between Amsterdam and Budapest for example we would have granted back then 400 euro grant but taking the airplane between Budapest and Zagreb we would actually now not fund an airplane travel anymore simply to make the statement that the train travel is completely perceivable for this short distance of 350 kilometers also take taking into consideration a longer longer time period while we would have been funding this trip for 400 400 euros now this would be 250 euro grant and another challenge that we also of course perceived as I said already is a time issue obviously and another challenge a second one that we tackled was was a low infrastructure in many of our regions that we funded for example lower developed countries with a low infrastructure this would have been also a point or reason grantees would obviously choose the airplane instead of the train to travel to the destination country just simply because train travel would have been less feasible so this is also one of the reasons we don't allow funding per airplane anymore just to promote we don't allow airplane travel up to 700 kilometers anymore simply to simply to promote the idea of train travel especially in between european neighboring countries so what the major difference between back then our guidelines and now is obviously that we also allow intra european travel simply because there was also the demand of our constituency within the european union sphere and not only to allow the travel in between our neighboring countries and the european union as a political entity so basically the main difference is now that for the same distance we would grant 200 euro more for train travel than by airplane travel so what happened in the past two years since we have been strongly implementing the strategy in 2017 is that the train travel got more popular and grantees were perceiving the opportunity to receive a high amount for the same distance as for example compared airplane travel as very positive but on the other hand grantees were also telling us that it is just simply not realizable the ideals of environmental sustainability within our projects and the pragmatic reality we are living in it's just not feasible to approach this this environmentally protecting strategy for them on the positive note again grantees were actually happy to take the train simply because their project already started by entering the train they were reflecting on their walk progress they were perceiving the chance to actually get into contact with the humane co-travelers and already involved these into their projects train travel unfortunately compared to 2017 decreased in 2018 this can be due to different trends which we have not scientifically researched but of course I personally observed and many of you observe the trend that airplane deals are just getting cheaper while train travels are sometimes increasing or staying the same so in 2018 we had a 53 success rate 53 success rate in granting applications which was 7 percent higher than 2017 so this is also a reason why airplane travel was probably just simply higher because also yeah more people just traveled by airplane as for our external environment we were in order to developing on the green strategy much more we have been collaborating or working together with julie's bicycle which is which is yeah a platform and a collective working on the area around sustaining sustaining creativity and we have been using their their IG tool which is a non-line tool to compare the ecological footprint made during mobility and on another note we have been or my former colleague has been part of the creative climate leadership group on a last note I think the reason or one important aspect that we noticed around the green sustainability strategy is that implementing the strategy on external sphere is not enough to fully be a fully be a valid representative of a sustainability strategy the new print culture foundation has been there has been an initiative of a working group to also implement a sustainability strategy within in-house into our staff structure and into our organizational cultural structure unfortunately this has not been fully implemented yet we are still working on it but what i'm trying to say is that to start doing something about sustainability externally we have to start doing something about sustainability internally this starts with finding solutions alternative solutions for the traveling mode of our staff members for example so maybe also avoiding short conference travels and maybe going instead to an online conferences on further extent we have been implementing on a very small scale sustainability methods within our other granting program the tandem collaboration program where this has been realized through for example for example collaborating with social enterprises during workshops and for our next steps we are currently in a change in a change in a structural change within our organization which where also a new strategy will probably come along with it but we are currently working on that and for now i want to thank you and yeah give the word back to you thank you Sandra any quick questions we will meet again in about 20 minutes after coffee so maybe not now okay so let's have 20 minutes break thank you thank our keynote speakers and to see you in 20 minutes for a panel discussion thank you so it's still morning so good morning everybody we are back here for a panel discussion uh yes everybody seated so you met two of our panelists before uh so Václav you forwarded with Václav so i will introduce you Yiri Václav who is from the ministry for regional development and he is coordinator of the of the program partnership for urban planning project okay and then we have Roslav Pashmik who is the head of the sustainability management department at the center at the economic university here in Prague then we have Sandra who gave us this brilliant presentation in the morning and we have here Fatima Avila from Asian Europe Foundation she's the project coordinator of mobility first program and then we have here our secretary general Marie Lesour who is in a charge of on the move network and she's been dealing with issues of mobility for more than 10 years ready this session should be as open as possible because most of you have some experience with mobility with many aspects or in many aspects so we would like to make it as open as possible so please check it as a Q&A session and do ask questions we have here girls with microphones that will help you to join us it's necessary to use microphones because we are online so please respect it and okay let's start maybe i would like to ask Marie for an opening word since she's a secretary general on the move and has longest experience in this so Marie we've heard presentations in the morning what are your first responses to sustainability and mobility what kind of issue is it for you you have to turn it on i think it's okay yeah great thank you very much Barbara i would yeah i would start while saying that i started to work with on the move in 2012 and one of the first project we have been working on was a guide which was not a guide on mobility funding because on the move is a mobility information network and we signpost information about funding opportunities for the mobility of artists and cultural professionals but this guide was very specific on this sustainability issue so it was a the green mobility guide for the performing art sector and we co-produce this guide together with a Julie's bicycle that you mentioned so which is this UK-based agency which advice the arts and cultural sector into greening their practices and this guide has been very popular so it's provided like tips advice particularly like for them theater company artists cultural professional to have more like you know like to to consider like more like sustainable type of touring or also like to consider like producing the set in the venue where for instance they are invited instead of you know having like bringing all the material for the for the performance and this guide has been translated in various language including in Germany in German sorry together with touring artists Ikebeka and ITI and it's even translated in Chinese so we got also like some feedback from Chinese artists and cultural professional and since then we have been trying to engage on this issue at various level of competencies so through signposting information for instance on mobility opportunities which are related to this question of environmental sustainability through residency program for instance and also at the policy level so we are part of different European project and one of the latest is the creative climate leadership program I just would like maybe to share three main ideas and I think maybe it can you know connect also like through to the experience of on the move member because as you say we are a network and a lot of experience is also coming from our member one thing it's like of course any type of travel that we are involved with as an impact on the environment but it's also not only about the question of the travel but it's what we do also like when we are at the destination so it's also this question of trying to optimize our coming or you know like travel as much as possible so we try as much as possible not to go you know abroad only for one meeting but to optimize every time I would travel so we try to limit on that and we we also think and we are not the only one to think about that that this debate should be very much at international scale here we are more in a European I mean we have our guest from the Asia Europe Foundation we have also some some members and participants from the US but every time you have this question raised also at a more international level it's where the debate and the action also become more interesting and relevant for this global challenge that we are facing and here I am referring to a one ITM meeting that we attended a few years ago in Melbourne in Australia and it was a session on the greening practices for the arts and cultural sector and they were guests from Europe but also from Southeast Asia and from Australia and so it was like trying to find ways to green our practices and I mean at a certain point of the conversation there were people particularly from Southeast Asia from Indonesia and from Thailand for instance and Cambodia I would say like yeah it's a very interesting topic but at the end of the day it's a very luxurious position in which you are because you have the money to travel so you have also the choice to choose or not to choose to go somewhere you have the opportunity is like you know you don't need a visa because yeah it was more like with some European people so you know like this question of free movement of travel and at the end of the day we don't have these opportunities like in most of the country in Southeast Asia and the global the climate change it's really much our at our feet you know at our door so it was also interesting and I would just finish on that but to have very much this debate on what we do on this question of mobility impact and the relation with the arts and cultural sector to have also this debate on an international scale yeah thank you maybe Fatima would like to comment on it since Mary was talking about Asian experience so and we also heard presentation about European context so what about Asian Europe Foundation and its green mobility approach yeah so I'm from the Asia Europe Foundation we're in maybe one minute just to tell you who we are and what we do because I'm sure not everyone knows so we're an inter-governmental organization that's funded by 50 countries in Asia and Europe so this is our jurisdiction our mandate but we are based in Singapore it's the only office and we culture it's not a cultural foundation in a sense it's a culture is one of the six main thematic areas that we do and in the area of culture we have a mobility grant we have an event series we do publications and one of which is what we call the creative responses to sustainability series which maps arts organizations that do things related to climate change and the environment and so on but in terms of mobility and we run the mobility grant it is of course a very very different context from ECF and and the intra-Europe travel where from your brilliant presentation your longest distance is probably our shortest so we fund artists and cultural professionals to travel between the two regions and it will always always be more than 700 kilometers so and we fund Asia to Europe Europe to Asia and intra-Asia travel and intra-Asia travel is not at all comparable to intra-Europe travel because of infrastructure it's not connected in one piece of land the train system doesn't exist in most in most places and it's very disconnected with water so anyway we cannot disregard plane travel at all it will always be there but we are an organization that is aware of the negative impact of plane travel so I guess in the way that we promote mobility it would be the awareness of how to make mobility more more responsible and on the level of let's say because let's say as a there are many levels like we need innovations I just came from a mobility conference in in Ljubljana a few weeks ago and that it was also a very burning topic there that you know different sectors have to work together to to build a more sustainable mobility so in on the level of let's say even the artist will you accept an invitation to have a one-off performance in a festival or like in our grant in our application form we ask for the the event dates and the travel dates so in a way we are implicitly encouraging what we slow travel so if you go from Europe to Asia you have to maximize it and do as many things as possible in that in that one like mobility opportunity and same way for the other way around on the level of small arts organizations because we also we accept applications from our organizations we are aware that there is you know it's a difficult way to balance you know the budget and and sustainability on the level of information points and information providers for for mobility there is also like a responsibility to to to give information in a more responsible way and on the higher level of policy and and infrastructure and innovations and technology there you know different people have to do different things and yeah we want to be more aware of everything thank you Sandra we've heard your presentation so we know what your agenda is but my question is since the more sustainable mobility requires systematic changes do you also work with authorities to create some dialogue in what you in like spreading the message you want to to send to the world of artists and to communicate it to authorities and that specific context we haven't started any conversation into that direction the only external entities that we have been working with was the climate leadership platform that we have been attending and Julie's bicycle around which we have been attending various conferences and of course debates and conversations around the topic but it didn't went further than that for now I think one an ideal vision of the next step for a step would be actually to also go into the direction of intra Europe railway deals with specific companies so so to actually have an inter intra sectorial um yeah cooperation um yeah to initiate this kind of um direction but yeah we went didn't went further than that thank you I mentioned that your uh grant program is quite inspiration for uh art and theater institute because already mentioned that go and see program for the first time uh included this requirement on sustainability that we we don't fund trips by plane shorter than 700 kilometers so we kind of followed your example and actually we already read in the in the applicants that people were or grantees were responding to it they were reacting and making comments on it and they were choosing different types of mobility so um we were quite happy about the message we sent to them and uh great uh as a part of the registration form for the conference but was a short questioner uh where we asked about uh people's experience with sustainable mobility and the results were quite poor uh it shows that Czech Republic is very at the very beginning of this conversation so we see this meeting as a kind of a first step and we would like to share this ideas or come up with a minimum what we can do in a culture over the tips what we can do to make mobility more sustainable both for authorities or a funding uh funding programs and for artists and um we have Yaroslav Pashmink here from the uh from the sustainability management center yes uh i find your agenda quite interesting uh do you also work with a culture field uh and sustain sustainable mobility in a culture field and could you please introduce your agenda thank you very much for uh inviting me here i'm very fond of this kind of conference actually i'm i work at the university of economics in Prague at the faculty of business administration and um i run their uh it's a course called sustainability management and it's an elective uh it's actually the first course in this country uh on the sustainability management and also the center for sustainability management what we have there uh is the first one so yes we're on the beginning we are we are just looking behind a little bit uh behind the western countries uh maybe maybe 20 years but maybe maybe a little more so what is the agenda actually i try to create or help create agents for change in organizations which change organization for more sustainable organizations and in this course i have people from different fields also from uh uh culture management uh or the arts management actually and uh i myself i'm uh first university which i studied is was musicology and i'm also besides the business administration uh university i'm also a musician where i used to be so i know i some kind of connect those two two spheres as business working more with the or actually predominantly with big corporations uh solving problems in big corporations helping to solve the problems so and the mobility actually is uh before i never thought about it as a as a culture phenomenon before that you somehow brought it the topic into the light and i think it's really we can we can uh think about mobility as a culture phenomenon actually and economy can be also seen as a culture phenomenon right it's kind of like that and and and art is a part of of our society so it's very hard to kind of separate it because as we saw in your presentation here actually we can look on this through management glasses through economy economies glasses and we can see that there is like there is a aspect of efficiency which actually looks like that it's due to travel sustainably is not efficient right because all those sustainable travels were more costly like cost more so it's like something is really weird uh and um of course it's it's because the system of economy economy is not a free market uh is not perfect there is lots of externalities which are not kind of included into into the price so yeah i try to work on this with big corporations i have students from from culture sector which work on different projects for instance here in park also on mobility how to uh how to change certain big streets into more quiet streets for instance or how to change park into more sustainable city which is very very very demanding and i look on this through the economics economists glasses through the perspective of efficiency but also also not only efficiency but also through strategy of sufficiency and maybe through strategy of consistency where you uh brought into into this sphere something more than than economic efficiency which is not actually working now well okay i'll get back to you maybe later on with some further questions but maybe now we can finish the round and maybe you'll check and introduce his project of the partnership it's a you project how do you deal with sustainability how do you relate to this and what is um you're representing a ministry for a regional development so it's a green mobility uh at the top of your agenda somehow or is it neglected uh yeah it is and three years ago um let me introduce you myself to yourself uh i started with mobility three years ago i didn't even know there is something called urban mobility but now it's the major part of my work um this project maybe this is this is funny that some people call it uh program others call it a project and officially it's called a partnership uh this this says something uh we um this is a kind of initiative the cities european cities came up with uh to all together with member states to persuade the european commission to do more for the cities and this there are 12 topics uh under this umbrella agenda the agenda is called urban agenda for the EU and we are trying to achieve some tangible uh results uh deliver both goals uh and then we we refer to the uh international or uh united nations new urban agenda so you see the big umbrellas and we are in europe and what's what's the contributions of the cities and member states and many uh umbrella organizations from brussels mostly one of them abbreviated ecf so it's not only yours that's also european cyclists federation uh we have them on board and we have uh organizations like polis they they deal with uh municipalities we have uitp public transport it's a french abbreviation uh we have euro cities and with all of these we we uh we are co-coordinators with the german city of kazoo uh and with this project we we we ask ourselves at the beginning what are the major uh challenges issues in the field of mobility in europe so the cities the umbrella organizations and the member states there's also five member states on board so you can imagine this kind of big uh consortium project consortium and uh there is for example a member from cyprus and look at their uh challenges uh there's somebody from uh from finland uh there is people from uh there's an organization called walk walk 21 dealing with uh walking as a major issue and with all of these we try to define uh some kind of actions we want to work we are working on and deliver some results uh with the help of an action plan uh we have the action plan you you can all read it have it uh and in the end of this year we call it end of project but it's a partnership approach so it means um the all the partners uh got to know each other uh set a working relationship multi-level uh multi-governance very very tough very challenging uh many of of us never spoke to such levels like from national to city level or i'm never before i i didn't know that somebody's dealing with uh walking as a major issue uh so i think the main aim of this project maybe later on we may call it a program i don't know is is to give the european cities uh more chance to to improve quality of life to make uh mobility uh more sustainable uh of course we we won't we won't achieve uh all the goals but uh the aim is to really make uh these entities cooperate with each other uh and uh i think this is the contribution also from our ministry which is in charge of this project uh on on behalf of check yeah our the national coordinator national contact point thank you that's enough for the introduction i think we've had the presentation but i may still ask do you think uh it's it's working the communication between respective ministries since you are your body um as um the ipr and the planning office a due date take your advice what about the implementations across the various levels of a government and uh all those players we've heard is quite uh quite there are many players and it's complicated all those layers of authority so what about the synergy between them how does it work it depends but i think the communication between ministry ministries and us for example it's it's work but uh we have so many strategies that's in it's impossible to go together and make some very good implementation of of this so in my opinion the problem uh is not in a strategy and not so much in a cooperation but in an application so at the municipality level or for example if uh we have some strategy let's make it alive uh in in the reality but not only on in on the paper so that's the main problem so you think it's not the difficult to create a strategy but it's difficult to implement it in reality definitely definitely okay that was a starting introduction of our panel but let's take it more as an open q and a uh so please join us do you have some questions or comments on what you've heard during the morning uh keynote presentations yes um thank you okay so we have a problem we are using too many cars and we're using too many airplanes uh we could look at it in a number of different ways we could do more you know put more pressure on the car manufacturers and on the airplane manufacturers and also where i live in italy on the cruise ship manufacturers to produce machines that pollute less that would be one way uh another way is to look at our own practices in the contemporary performing arts at least we've spent at least 20 30 years uh promoting mobility because we really believe that human to human contact is extremely important not only in the arts but really to understand one another with the rise in nationalism it becomes even more important so my question is knowing that we believe in this human to human contact but knowing that it's problematic at at least at the moment because of the machines that we need has anybody been working on really trying to use internet technologies which of course pollute as well but i don't have the information to know which is worse but has anybody been looking at um ways to to really try to make these possibilities to connect via internet more intimate more personal i mean i give a brief example um i'm asked to teach in a number of different places and what i'm doing now is is i'm uh i'm taping a lecture and then uh giving the lecture or introducing the lecture on skype letting the um the the classes look at my taped video and then coming back onto skype again for example but in order to get the benefit of really trying to emulate the human to human contact a half an hour lecture and you know half an hour skype won't do we need to find ways to hang out in in the bar together you know and really have small talk conversations and really spend as much time together who's working on that i'd be very interested so is somebody working on that you would like to comment on it Jaroslav maybe as well maybe just partly my little contribution would be that uh i realized that the only maybe the only chance where i get connected via a webinar to to the rest of europe uh dealing with some interesting issues like resilient the city uh is is this way of organizing webinars with web cameras if necessary uh and not organize things in one place so i do it just once in two weeks i join in and i'm i'm happy this is organized by jpi europe uh they deal with urban issues um it's it's around from i think vienna or or they have speakers from all all the europe so this is the only uh opportunity for me otherwise i'm sometimes questioning myself why do i have to travel there to brussels say uh once a month why don't we um deal with um issues daily issues with the european institutions just per skype or prayer with other technology instruments this is a question for me i don't have the answer thank you jaroslav would you like to comment on it how technology can help uh and well i think it's a it's a cultural issue isn't it right that we are used to uh personal contacts and it's a human human development somehow that we we still use our bodies right uh to move around and of course yeah then we hop on train or hop on plane and the problem is that yeah that's um the technology would be developed and i'm not talking about internet i'm talking about planes uh and the system uh of taxation for instance would develop it doesn't doesn't somehow readdress the problem of sustainability and uh when this is somehow addressed this problem of taxation for instance because as you know probably the kerosene is not actually taxed so that's why it is so so cheap and it looks like it's efficient but it's not actually because it's not taxed so look for it for chicago convention in 1944 so so um i think that it's it's not really possible to uh fully um somehow or maybe i know already for 10 years that uh that there are for example companies like sisco they are developing really like videoconferencing technologies very very well suited for become corporations which have to have to have virtual organizations of course it's it's it's normal in in kopeh world that you work with bungalow or with the south africa you know with with new york that it's it's normal that you do it and so the technology is already there and the those virtual team work we have many service centers here in the chicago republic of multinational companies sitting in in the uh in offices but um i don't know if it works for for culture for for for this kind of creative meeting for instance my good friend mirek senka which is the one of the most i would say most known check composers composed opera called south pole right very successful opera uh and the liberties was from from australia and he had to travel to australia somehow they they had to me to to work together to to work on the libretto and then the uh and actually to make make it into music into opera so it's it's kind of an maybe not that much imaginable that it would it would really this creative process would be possible without this this human physical contact with some kind of very advanced for instance i don't know what to kind of virtual virtual room right i don't know any of those experiments maybe you know some experiments what it already does i know what only what i know is the metropolitan uh like matt opera like transmitting you know all around the globe right the the great operas which is actually better to see uh in the in the cinema than there in the opera i was there watching the the opera then i watched it here and it was much much better to watch it here actually then then in matt right because you had inside in the that you have details which you you don't have of course it's something very different you know but the creative process can it be can it be somehow virtualized i'm not sure yes fatima please yes related to that completely agree with with maryan um we believe that face-to-face encounters are still the the best way to understand um each other's cultures and as a strong supporter of cultural mobility we obviously encourage this through through the grant so people actually meet each other in person and co-produce and and collaborate and but in our other projects like for instance our conversation series we have one coming up i was just talking to lee about it um it will be in singapore and it's about um producing networks and and so on and we're bringing together uh three representatives of producing networks and one is like very new one one is a mid one which is like 15 years from from korea anyway the third speaker is from from the uk and this conversation will be a maximum like three hours in singapore but the the contributions from the from our british speaker will be invaluable because you know it's like you have a emerging one a mid one and a very mature organization question is do we fly her over for three hours in in singapore um so she's not coming over and um technology now is very very uh advanced and uh we we will do it uh pre-recorded like a video call with the questions and we'll edit it and she will be there and um it will be live she will be live also to to answer questions but experimenting with uh these kinds of things um shouldn't hinder the exchange of ideas and the the sharing of of best practices when we talk about mobility it's also not just physical mobility but the the mobility of of of ideas and we should experiment on the ways of how to um exchange and so we're we're trying to to do this now and um yeah and also other other ways um yeah i uh second or third that idea um that human connection is necessary to actually um collaborate and make projects happen in many many cases uh this is also the the breathing point of step to actually enable this um collaboration face to face because otherwise the project wouldn't get to the next level in a lot of cases um one way we try to um one idea would be where we could maybe circumvent this um yeah the the issue of a short traveling for example of traveling for one two-day conference for a networking event to another country would be aid to actually prohibit this um possibility to go actually for a conference travel but on another side this would also prohibit uh idea creation or networking meetings or meetings of new connections for our grantees so taking on from there we could also say okay how about you go to this conference but also connected to another project initiation with respective people you meet there or maybe with partner organizations that are in this area and only allowing from their um short term travel that starts from five or seven days or 15 days so this would be one way to um more promote even this green green travel um on a completely other note step has been always promoted as a grant program in order to also reach our peripheries because we have been very popular of course in metropolitan cities to travel to and from metropolitan cities as berlin paris and so on um in order to reach also peripheries we have been also traveling to this peripheries in the past and we're doing workshops about application filling in and so on and this evolved luckily into um simply webinars which is a very popular too i think just to reach a big big target group in a very small um time and economic efficiency which is um one involvement that i can positively report on um yeah and i add one thing maybe one request because i have to apologize i will have to go a little bit earlier um because i have some other important meeting but i'm very very uh glad that i hear this kind of thinking about sustainability in in mobility in in in culture i wish that guys from manufacturers of of airplane engines could hear that and because as as you know maybe the airplane engines uh they are they are designed to last maybe 20 maybe 30 years right so the engines which are now designed that you are new will be here for 20 years right because before they will actually be paid and they will can retire so i work with those companies which produce engines for aircrafts and they don't go for for instance electric engine they still develop petrol kerosene based engines so if they would if there would be kind of more pressure from customers from uh frequent fliers that they really have to change i think that they will have to change more like probably their business model will not be fulfilled because they they develop certain things which will we will not be allowed to use if we want to change as as we as is actually now in ipcc documents actually clear that we have to change in 10 or 15 years very radical way so it means that those engines probably will never fly or they will have to somehow kind of be completely overhauled right so i'm very glad that i hear this discussion but i think that because we need to travel to create right to exchange ideas so i think that we have to really create a pressure more pressure on those producers of engines or the airlines actually because it will not happen when the kerosene is very very cheap it will not happen if the people will not care about this right and it's a center of sustainable sustainability management at the economic university somehow planning to take part in this pressure on i'm doing it already for years but it's just it's personal conversation right it's it's personal conversation with top managers of those companies right and they say okay well if you can sometimes read it not only with the with the producers of of uh airplane engines but also with producer of cars read the maybe one two years old the sustainability reports where they say diesel will be here for another 20 years maybe because we don't have any anything else than diesel right so and then maybe you know this kind of story that then some company will will get kind of very upset with this for instance Deutsche Post they said okay please give me some electoral electric car right for our operations and those companies say we don't have any we don't have any electric car so what says the Deutsche Post they say we will build ourselves one so they bought small startup that they built the the the prototypes and now because they need 70 000 cars so to become sustainable it means radicality it means really kind of like bold steps for instance say okay right we have a big we have maybe lots of people right we have lots of money to distribute and we'll distribute it in a different way right in a more sustainable way but it's it's very complex complex a complicated issue but yeah i would be very grateful if you could be kind of outspoken and you would pressure those companies somehow as customers as as the big organizations to give us a solution solutions for for cleaner travel marie would you like to comment on it just a comment also to link back to some of the experience here particularly of some on the move member but what you mentioned what i think it's interesting and we see an increase of such type of opportunities at least in the arts and cultural sector it's also like the need for more partnership between the artistic and cultural sector and other sector be it's industrial sector for instance or to work more with scientists engineer and i think here we have quite a number of representative from artist residency program here like trans artists or s artists i mean i'm just naming you or city international as well we see more and more this residency program related also eventually to this question of climate change and environmental sustainability and usually what they are looking at it's not only to call for artist contribution and you know artistic project but also it's for these artists to work with other sectors so i don't know whether some of our colleague want to comment on that because i think this is also the interest of our panel is that we come from different sector but we deal i mean we are facing the same the same challenge so sorry to put you directly there if you want to because we really see at least at the level of on the move like this increase of opportunities at least at the level of residency program yes i think that there is definitely increased collaboration so our network represents over 700 artist residency centers internationally and we are seeing a year on year increase in both interest in how residencies are working with artists duration of residencies how that impacts but also very much about how the residency is environmentally impacting on the local environment and so more and more what we see are these cross collaborations so for example there was a great project run through visiting us which was a huge international project that teamed up an artist swapped an artist from one country to another country except there were multiple countries involved but they were teamed up with an ecologist in the new place where they went to and the the parameters of the residency was one square mile and the project was called one square mile and so the visiting artist worked for the entire duration of the residency with an ecologist or an environmentalist to work through a project that involved this predetermined one square mile of land which sometimes was urban sometimes was rural sometimes was very politically charged sometimes not at all and the resulting there's a fantastic publication about that which is easily accessible online through visiting arts and there was a lot of feedback at the end of that which was a three-year program and the things that came out of that were really quite extraordinary both in terms of the types of works that were developed but also actually that idea of lateral thinking and looking at things from different perspectives the ways that other sectors were looking at the work that they were doing we see it also time and time again especially with a lot of crossover with science which is now a lot of science cross art science crossovers are focusing increasingly on environmental issues and you just have these fantastic outcomes particularly active must be said in Nordic countries and there's a real push especially around the Arctic as we see time and time again over the last few years there's a lot of concerted effort and collaboration happening there particularly at the moment thank you yes um hi um i had a question relating to the idea of also putting pressure on particular industries to change their course and maybe it's sort of the annoying but almost necessary question in this discussion that i think a lot of people are quite skeptical about what a cultural sector can actually make for a kind of change we do not have the neither the demographic numbers nor the economic power to really change the course of an aviation industry i think or i think a lot of people would think is as well and it sort of comes down i think to the to the question how we should respond to this idea of this allegation even that the efforts that we make to to make this cultural mobility more sustainable is just a drop in the ocean compared to other forms of mobility or other sectors in which the traveling frequency is just increasing every single day and what should our response be um because i will go so i just will ask you try to answer this i think it's not that drop in the ocean it's a it's a very important activity of each organization that you have your guidelines for sustainable procurement for instance or for sustainable mobility that you do your homework as great as your work says right like it's it's it's it's funny that 16 is all uh activists kind of like now shape the uh the the opinion but okay everyone can every organization can do sustainability management right everyone every manager can think about it and they can implement the policies they can have working groups they can change how they procure stuff and uh they they can kind of uh try to change what energy they use for the institutions right and you can also lobby in your local council to change right uh certain things which will be better uh it will take time but i think now there is lots of um kind of a momentum in the society that it's it's it's it's it's more possible it's not it's not impossible it's the the change is possible but it has to be uh kind of brought in by by actors who will act and who will have this normativity they say okay i want to change my organization it can be changed through the top down it can it should be also from the bottom up it should be kind of participative it should be co-created in the organization but i think that the if if every organization can think about sustainability management and vision how to make their operations all operations not only maybe the energy and mobility but also procurement so it would help thank you very much fatima so i think thank you for for staying with us and yeah i think um small small actions but individual actions are maybe small drops in the ocean but a lot of people do little things then it becomes many drops anyway the point is um no no just put it closer sorry team up so the point is uh collective action um will yield probably better results of many different little actors do kind of similar things and um like in asf we're very very late i think we're we're now working on like sustainable guidelines internally for the organization and sustainable guidelines because we have many partners in 50 different countries and of course each project will um adapt to it but it's a it's a start and um yeah i think all i agree with you everyone doing their own little thing will will collectively become uh and in i keep saying this so because it's the same um um conversation i guess in in mobility there were we had a section there of some recommendations and then there were like very nice ideas like frequent like frequent flyer points instead of um you know buying luxury goods then maybe it goes to i don't know planting a tree i don't something like this you know it's it's the same model of of incentive and reward but a different like reward but so it's not like super radical it's small but it's it's a it's a it's a drop yeah put every dollar every dollar every euro which you spend into this kind of multi-criteria in your organizations multi-criterial decision-making right is what we spend the money which we spend is it spent somehow sustainably right uh not only in mobility but but on other things i think it's it's worth considering right because you have this power over your budgets right as individuals but maybe more importantly over over the organization's budget uh i think you were the first but uh is it related to this topic or maybe there are some quick reactions it is related i think i just want to agree that i think that the every organization is responsible for the sustainable itself and i just want to change a point of view because i think that if we speak about about the sustainable mobility and i do believe that all we here agree that the mobility in the culture sector is really important and necessary but we have to also then ask like why people working in a creative field uh are moving so much why artists want to apply for this great found found and uh i have to say truly that very often it is just because of the financial resources because if you work in the local uh local field then you can't get enough financial resources for your project in the local field so the very often the reason why the project is international it's not because the theme of the project should be international but just because there you can find more financial resources so i think that uh it's important to speak also about this fact that now in uh in the culture sector there is a lot of international projects it doesn't have to be international and i think uh it's important to say also that if there are funds which are supporting the mobility then have to be also a funds which are focused on the local uh development in the culture sector thank you for this yes um i would i would like to make a specific point about performing arts and following up on this conversation and trying to just ask ourselves what we can do i will speak from my organization's perspective because we are the french office for circulation of performing arts and as it was said like the living experience the person who was talking about the opera but i think the opera is something very specific in the performing arts and of course there are lots of communication technologies and even that has changed a lot the way we work but it will never replace the meeting of the uh this artistic experience with the audience so i think this thing is very specific to at least the performing arts but we can just ask ourselves if this awareness of these issues of sustainable development i would say are high enough in our sector and i'm talking about sustainable development because it may be old-fashioned but there there is in this concept economic social and ecological dimension so it will answer as well to what you say we are an economic sector so we need revenues and the artists need revenues and the producers need revenues to make a living and that that's their job so that should not be forgotten but we can follow us as well your your experience or learn from your experience of partnership because uh ourselves alone we cannot maybe don't do what we can do some local things in our organizations but we can be stronger and have a wider perspective if we develop a partnership maybe among artists companies and producers and venues to to address those issues like you said to optimize for instance the the presence of the artist and the company better optimize this than the the actual tour uh that we are doing but that will uh that will uh there will be a change of paradigm actually so we have to to just to be to be aware of that and and follow some some method that you you already explained in like urban or local development because this uh can be can be done in a local or national level as well uh the displaced but the mobility of the artist or the producers is not very maybe consistent uh in this uh level as well sorry maybe you didn't hear me at all a bit but it's better to keep it closer to your mouth thank you sorry uh Matthew um the irony of me making this comment when I've traveled 7 000 miles to be here I that is not lost on me um but I think that there's um I think there's a in response Marianne to your comment about the the authenticity of the the personal experience I feel like there's an extent to which that may be generational and there may be a transition when I look at my son in a room full of teenagers and they're all texting each other rather than talking to each other suggests that there may be other kinds of authentic experiences and also when I go to a concert and there's an artist from the UK and they're performing with backing tracks rather than with the band whether it's my son in a room with this texting or watching a band on stage in both cases my reaction is derision I look at them and think why don't you have a band you should have a band you should have brought a band with you from the UK you shouldn't be playing with backing tracks but I think that there's a topic in the arts this goes to your question or your comment that we fetishize the authentic in a way that is maybe something we have to get over we fetishize the idea of having that relationship experience or talking in person meeting like this or seeing an artist when you think about the the the carbon footprint of bringing an orchestra on tour it's staggering when you think about that and but of course we wouldn't accept you know the solo violinist playing with backing tracks of the orchestra that'd be ridiculous but maybe that's something that we have to address in our programming in the way that as arts organizations we think about this kind of goes to the comment that was just made about you know every dollar you spend every euro you spend is this part of a broader perspective about how do we minimize this thank you medic thank you yes just as a follow-up from what matthew said I just wanted to share with you a little lovely story there was a two artist groups three individuals in each group one in Iceland and one in Australia that were commissioned to make virtual work together to happen within the Adelaide festival and this group of artists they decided immediately that they would not make a virtual work they decided to use actual letters to each other and using the postal services of developing the work over one year and then when it came to the actual execution of the piece the groups one of them was in Australia and one of them kept being in Iceland they never met they never talked they just wrote to each other through letters and when the performance was made it was done via a fax machine on site I saw a video of it and I heard from my friends that saw it in Adelaide it was one of the most profound artistic experience that those audience members had experienced in a long time so I so agree with the speaker earlier that is left and so it is about changing behaviors and there are alternative ways of doing things however I also agree we will never replace the life experience but all this is about changing behaviors and finding alternative ways to do the things that we have got accustomed to in our luxurious lives and maybe also slow down a bit because I can expect the postal service is much slower of course than emails so maybe we're so maybe we're also talking about slow art referring to what Lucia said that to have it local and slower and also presuming and producing less maybe in a cultural sector sorry questions or comments okay maybe I'll draw on a few people's comments talking sustainability sometimes when we implement some projects either European or national ones we call it let's keep it forever let's make it sustainable but maybe we miss the the meaning environmental sustainability we think that when it's financially sustainable when we get funds then okay we call it sustainable I work in sustainable urban development and I'm sometimes thinking is it really is urban development sustainable what does it stand for so just you can think further and then these two approaches as individuals we can do a lot although it can be a drop in the ocean on the other hand there is a chance to make partnerships or to to use activism approach to use political parties to lobby against something for something you see the change in the automobile industry I think the the the aircraft companies will sooner or later follow there is some speaking about electronic or electric planes but they have their own troubles you know Boeing max 787 or those so it's it's it's hard taxation taxation is a is a very strong tool I don't understand why this kerosene is not text texty yet or there's no consensus so there is different levels tiers of possible action and it depends on everyone and how people can make lobby how can make partnerships to go for their for sustainable goals say yes I wanted to refer to this aspect of sustainability but coming back to the to the to the mobility of ideas and the aspect of data storing data and sharing data because as Marian mentioned the internet technology is polluting too and I have a question to you if you discuss it in your institutions because there are many networks so you store a lot of data you share it and yeah like is it an issue already that you discuss within the institution do you use some maybe open source programs did any one of you had a chance to work on some I don't know blockchain projects this is a question thank you hello institutions I think as far as arts and theater institute is concerned we haven't discussed this have we no we haven't we haven't discussed this but this made me think about another issue which is sustainability versus authenticity or sustainability versus originality and how do we deal with these issues for example we we talked a lot about having the personal experience or experiencing a theater performance or a music music performance and I think this this discussion will take a bit longer until we come to some kind of a feasible conclusion because of course the human element is at this point of time maybe the newer generation will be satisfied with only seeing a performance on the screen maybe because they haven't seen enough live performances to see the difference so the question to us is yet again should we support it or should we try to find another way in how we can approach this topic but maybe to come back a bit to the to the drop in the ocean topic and I was thinking in terms of the residency field there are very good examples in Asia and especially in Taiwan in how they are working with sustainable issues and I was thinking about a residency in Shanglong wetlands which is an area that is directly affected by climate change where the wetlands are getting dry so all the flora and fauna are are kind of disappearing so what they are doing is that they are inviting artists to to apply to make an to make a public artwork and use only the natural materials from that area so they are not allowed or if they would like to use a material that they need to buy they need to use money from their artistic fee so in that sense I think there is a lot of small organization doing things in their areas and then we're while using them as examples of best practices we can definitely learn something and eventually hope that some other organization in some other part of the world will take this as a good example and do something else in their area thank you it's another voice for a local artist yes please maybe I have some comments I think about the drops in the ocean I think your very important role is to you are you could promote the sustainable mobility I think culture is so close to the common people and if culture promotes sustainable mobility it could work so that's I think big drop in in the ocean and second thing we speak about the technologies and planes it's true that the technology is not everything and if you change your one trip to one skype it's great better month better year it's great but still it will be necessary to use planes definitely because if you want to travel from Europe to Asia or to to the US it's impossible to to travel by by ship so for example if you need to use or your your artists need to use a plane there is a possibility to use for example newer aircrafts with new new engines so you can choose for example some aircraft with Boeing 787 which is made from composites and and so on and not for example jumbo jet which has four motors for foreign genes and consume more more fuel so you can you can find a way also in the in the airplane traveling it's difficult and need some advice is for example from scientists or something like it it's about this cooperation with them but there is a possibility to choose a way more sustainable not the real sustainable way in the airplane traveling or definitely use some some more often connection than some small airplane between the cities as we spoke about it so I think that's all well we talked about talk about airplanes mostly but do we know if we eliminated excessive flying if we eliminated airplanes what are the percentage of of other threats to climate compared to airplanes maybe you deal with your background to environmental studies is it only dropping the ocean I'm not good at numbers but I read an article just before this present this panel discussion in total the the portion of air travel and carbon dioxide is not that high we as one would expect there is other fields like industry or agriculture and they argue in that article that it's because it's not we are not that far that the the third world would be flying so if we look at it from our developed countries point of view maybe we are not growing the emissions in air travel I haven't I don't know but but they will and I think it's also about some kind of taxation or subsidizing non subsidizing this kind of maybe sometimes you use less travel or whatever you call it so we should look at it in in terms of regional territorial way developed less developed I don't know how which way maybe there is we would need an economist to tell us the numbers and what the trends are maybe Vatslav showed some slides relating to this and can comment on it because it's a hypothetical question it would never happen like we can't avoid airplanes as you said never mind it's fine yes drop in the ocean again no no I just wanted to add I just looked it up again only 80 percent 18 percent one eight one eight of the world has ever flown so I think that is indeed the the issue Mary that's exactly also related to one of the first comment I made also like this question has also like to be taken in a more global scale because again it's the question of choosing are not choosing to take the plane but as Lucy Lucia said you know like many I mean if we remain in the art and cultural sector many artists and cultural professionals they have to go to another country because they don't find enough funding resources or they don't find the training opportunities or they don't find like touring opportunities for their work so to make a living out of it they need to go out so it's I think once again it has also like to be seen from different contexts and in a more global scale as well I don't say it's easy but otherwise it looks as if we can have this choice but in many cases people don't have also this choice yeah yeah and from a funding organization like like point of view in support of cultural ability it's kind of I mean we get let's say we get an average of about 900 applications for the travel grant and we we support about 100 so that's about 10% support rate but in the past like two three years but in a way like what you said only if only 18% of the world has traveled and we are encouraging travel there there exists an imbalance that we are addressing in in in Asia in Europe in the two regions that we are working into to redress this imbalance so I guess in a way a travel grant funding organization it kind of contributes in deciding who who is traveling now you know who can travel now or who cannot so this awareness of responsible mobility that you know we going going 10,000 kilometers to do a one hour performance is obviously something that we can't we don't encourage and it also is embodied in let's say criteria for for selection in travel applications it can come in the form of incentives for greener travel in terms of distances but like in in our criteria we give a higher emphasis for example in cross-sectoral synergies so cross-sectoral synergies let's say art and the environment we've we've supported artists to go to the creative climate change leadership program or or residencies or trainings and workshops were artists and professionals from the cultural sector contribute to to local environment so yes there is a carbon footprint issue of traveling from Europe to Asia Asia to Europe but if they go somewhere where there is a high potential for a multiplier effect after and they contribute to like the wider picture of addressing issues in climate change and give solutions to global problems and I think the negative effects of of of traveling can be offset a bit by thinking in the long term of what they contribute in return when they come home and when they engage with their community and how they've affected the place that they went to so yeah yeah thank you any last comments you're slowly closing up the session since okay so as for the minimum for cultural institutions and artists what we can do even though we might be dropping the ocean we might be influencers cultural sector or cultural allies and we can send the message to other sectors and we can also make partnerships to make a pressure on our authorities and people who are actually decision makers and policy makers and to what from what I've heard here it's also about balance because we can't and we don't want to avoid personal contact and human contact in arts and culture it sounds like a nonsense to me we can't we can use technologies to and better planning to make our trips more effective so to me it's more about balance it sounds like to be about balance and supporting also slow art maybe and local artists and work effectively with the communities so if there are no other comments I would yes yes very last one is the microphone over there hey just like when you were summing it up I was also thinking what might be another not like solution but would this cultural world can do to fight climate change also to support other movements we're not say cultural but our environmental movements and like you were talking a lot about this like personal or individual contribution about like flying about cars etc etc and again there drops in the sea because like what we actually need and what is the radical challenge what is the radical way is like to see it more like in the context of economies if we need to attack the biggest polluters etc etc so I think like what is really important now is that these institutions like not just cultural institutions but environmental organizations movements like I don't know Greenpeace 350.org etc etc like merge and like operate and help each other out and there are like people doing you might have heard about extensional rebellion and like people doing these radical actions and I think like what this is what can work very well as well that the cultural institutions support movements like this because we we all know we don't really have time for our individual changes because we see that it's not going anywhere because that only few people who actually think about it like we might think about it and are trying to lowering I don't know driving cars flying etc it's important but it's not the only solution or it seems it's not going fast enough so as I said I think this is also really important to connect with other movements who might not really be cultural per se okay okay really very short contribution you are most of you are from abroad and if you go back 30 years ago we had a something called a velvet revolution where we overthrown the regime and who was behind the movement it was the the cultural movement the actress then environmentalists and then a lot of students so this kind of joint effort helped us to get rid of the communism so maybe it's a good example maybe we'll get rid of the climate change well let's hope for that so thanks to everybody for being here I would like to thank also the organizers of the whole old team of team meeting Martina Haikova, Martina Petzkovacerna, Pavle Petrova and the girls from Arts and Theatre Institute and Camp Vijay for a whole streaming thing with a live capturing that you can see behind me so thanks camp for technical support and enjoy the rest of your time in Prague thank you