Aloha, and welcome to another episode of the Hawaii Food and Farmers series. I'm your co-host Matt Johnson, and unfortunately, I know most of you are hoping to see Justina Spiritu. She's not here with us today. She'll be back in a couple of weeks. Apologize for the hiatus that we took, but thank you, James McKay, for jumping in, and hope you all enjoyed listening to him. As always, you can find us here on Think Tech every Thursday at 4 p.m. And we're talking to Hawaii's movers and shakers in our local food economy. So talking to farmers, talking to restaurateurs, and today we're talking to a writer, journalist, and also a chef. With us today is Martha Chang. But just before we get into that, if you want to join the conversation, you can tweet us at atthinktechhi, and after the show, you can see us up on YouTube at thinktechhawaii.com. So yeah, our guest today is Martha Chang. She is a writer, a chef, and also recently just came back from a conference, a biannual conference in Italy, which is the Terra Madre Salon del Gusto. So we'll be talking about that trip as well. So Martha, thanks so much for joining me on the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so you and I met not too long ago. So you have one of those really interesting pasts, a lot of different things. And you're one of those people that is well known in the local food economy of Hawaii, especially in the restaurant industry. Can you talk a little bit about what got you involved in liking food so much? Doesn't everybody? I mean, I think it was partly my parents are from Taiwan. They're Taiwanese immigrants. And so Taiwan is just a food obsessed culture. You always talk about your next meal during your meal. You talk about what you ate before. And just a common greeting is like, have you eaten yet? So it's just totally ingrained in, I think, my psyche. But I don't think I ever really, you know, thought about it as like, it didn't really come into my consciousness, I think, until I was in the Peace Corps. Yeah, so like. And you were in St. Vincent? I was in St. Vincent, yeah, in the Caribbean. And there's just, I didn't have a lot of a lot of things to connect with people on. So I was really struggling on developing a community until one day, I think someone just invited me to make a cake with her. And I was like, all of a sudden it was like, we had this common language. Yeah, so that's just what I found that I could connect with people on. Now, I think this was very similarities to Taiwan, where was food? I mean, I mentioned food was very important in their culture as well. Not to the like obsessive degree that Taiwan is like, Taiwanese are important. Yeah, it's like the Olympics, I'm a little embarrassed to say, yeah. Yeah, and I think it's also, you know, because it's a little bit more well off. So St. Vincent, no, it was much more of a, it was much more of just you, you eat to survive. But I mean, but every culture, even if you eat to survive, we all have opinions about our food, right? Everyone knows if they like a cake or they don't. And they'll let you know. So, yeah. And so so right now you're currently the editor of Hawaii Farm and Food magazine. Talk a little bit about the the magazine, because it's a new magazine, new publication started in 2015. Yes, relatively new, though. I think it was in the iteration of four. It was like re-incarnation. Oh, OK, yeah. So it's the Hawaii Farm Bureau magazine. And basically, we just tell stories about some of the farmers on Hawaii, some of their challenges and obstacles and what they do to make it in Hawaii. OK. And then before that, you were the food editor with Honolulu Magazine. Yes, yeah. And that's some interesting stories from there, because part of your assignment was being a food critic. Yeah. And that was just totally my accident. When I started writing about food, I just I wanted to stay as far away from restaurant criticism as I could because I just didn't want to get involved with that. I didn't want to get involved with like, you know, closing down a business if that if I didn't like it or something. Or and also just a lot of response. Yeah, yeah. And it's so personal, I feel like food is so personal. Like, I don't think it's something should rely on my experience alone. Or someone should not draw a conclusion on a place based on my. Like, right off a place just because Martha Cenk doesn't like it. Yeah, yeah. I'm just one person with a very specific power upbringing. What else were you doing at Honolulu Magazine then? So basically writing about Hawaii's food culture from all these different angles. So I think one of my favorite some of the favorite things that I did at the magazine were these packages called like the Everything Guide to X. So the first one we did was Japanese food in Honolulu because Japanese restaurants are like the predominant restaurants in Hawaii. And there's like, there's some it's interesting because there's some that are very traditional Japanese. And there's some that are this weird local magic that only exists in Hawaii. And the diversity within Japanese food is just so fascinating. So there was that. We did Everything Guide to Ahi. So like kind of what it's like to be on a long line boat. People who are trying to raise Ahi, trying to farm Ahi. Which has been extremely pertinent lately because there's been articles coming out talking about some of the really horrendous conditions for the fishing industry for actually people working on the boats. Yeah, a lot of conversation about that lately. Yeah. And I think it's it's interesting. I was having a conversation with a friend recently and we're like not to be I think this is more about us. But I guess we're just so cynical is like I thought everyone knew about this already. Yeah. And she was talking about there was recent New York magazine. They're talking about basically if you look at everything in our food supply, there's nothing that's untainted. And I think it's terrible that then our attitude is like, well, this is the way it is versus like what OK, so what are we going to do? We need to make some immediate changes or also I wonder what it looks like. So it looks like if you were to actually pay everyone well, if you were to have environmentally clean food, like what would that look like? How much would it cost? What are sacrifices? What do we have to make for that? Yeah. And I think that's bring up a good point. Like people that, you know, are kind of working in the industry like pretty much everybody we have on the show here. I mean, we're getting involved and we understand and it is interesting when you talk to groups outside of, I guess, the choir. And yeah, sometimes it is kind of a kick saying, oh, yeah, there's still a lot of misinformation. There's really only a small group of people that are really paying attention and then trying to understand that. So I think people like you that are writing about it and using some of these larger, more well read medias is so important. So so I kind of want to because there's so many different facets to it. I kind of want to pull out. I don't want to forget anything before we dive too deep on any one subject.  Talk a little bit about about that experience and did that start with the cake that you you baked in Saint Vincent? Where'd that come from? Started with me begging a lot of bakeries in the Bay Area to take me on as like an apprentice or something to teach me. So I finally found a woman who was just starting a baker and was like, OK, let's see. Yeah. So I started baking in the Bay Area. And then when I moved to Hawaii, I started as a line cook at Longs. Like, wow. So I mean, I still love pastry, but I was just eating way too much cake. So I was like, I need to move into something healthier. Yeah, yeah, every side. So, yeah, I loved. OK, that's not true. When I first started, I hated it and come home crying every night. Hard work. Yeah. And it's just you're not used to it, right? And so I was just a busboy in the restaurant. We're at the bottom of the totem pole. Yeah, we got beat down pretty badly. But maybe the people at the bottom of the totem pole have it worse. So I think I mean, any job in a restaurant, especially something like I imagine Al Wong's. I mean, it's it's high-paced and probably very active. Yeah, it was just so stressful. Like, I was not used to that kind of that that stress, that constant, like, you know, everything has to come out at a certain time. Everything has to be coordinated. So it took me a long time to get into the rhythm of it. But once I did, I'd loved it. How long were you there? Two years. OK. And then where did you go after that? After that, then I started freelance writing. That's when I I was kind of doing it on the side when I was working at the pineapple room. And then and then just kind of went for it after I left. OK. So then I was started the weekly and then became the food editor at the weekly. OK. And that's kind of how it all started. Yeah, OK.  And I mean, your career has really progressed and been able to do different things. You're well known in the community. What is it about your writing or the topics? I mean, what do you say is something that you like to focus on or is kind of your niche? Oh, I don't know. I'm just always looking for a good story, I guess. OK. People that I'm interested in. I think it's mostly the people why something that draws me to a story. Yeah. And so because you're talking to restaurants, but you're also you work with with farms. How about for some of their some of the farms that you've worked with that you've been really interested in or or something that you didn't expect from when you first started the story? Recently, we did actually our current issue of the Hawaii Farm and Food Magazine is about local chocolate, which I had written about for Honolulu magazine, too. But I thought that to me was interesting because at first when I heard about it, like that the ag industry is super interested in locally grown chocolate. I was like, oh, it's just I don't know. Everyone's looking for the next big thing, like the next cone of coffee and the next pineapple.  And then it just ends up being the same thing, like going to the sugar or the pineapple route all over again. But the more I talked to farmers about it, I realized I don't I think it is different. And I think there is a lot of there's a I think there is a market for it. And I think it's exciting. I think it'll be really exciting to see how it unfolds because in this case, it's actually different, right? All the all the techniques and all the chocolate right now is being grown in third world countries. And so it's kind of like Hawaii is now kind of taking all that knowledge and bring it here and trying to create a more transparent product and hopefully better product that will come in the price. So I don't know. I think it's I'll be curious to see how it works out. Well, I definitely I'm curious to hear more from you on your perspective on that chocolate industry because I've been hearing a lot about it as well. But we do have to take a quick break. And then we're also going to talk about your trip to Italy as well when we come back. So yeah, we'll be right back. Aloha, I am Reg Baker. And I am the host of business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from two to two 30 in the think tech studios in downtown Alululu. We highlight successful stories about businesses and individuals and learn their secrets to success. I hope you can join us on our next show on Thursday at two o'clock. Until then Aloha. Hello, I'm Marianne Sasaki. Welcome to think tech Hawaii where some of the most interesting conversations in Honolulu go on. I have a show on Wednesdays from one to two called Life in the Law where we discuss legal issues, politics, governmental topics and a whole host of issues. I hope you'll join me. And we're back to Hawaii Food and Farmer series. I'm your co-host, Matt Johnson. Apologize, Justine can't make it with us today but she'll be back in a couple of weeks. And as always you can join the conversation by tweeting in at think tech H.I. And yeah, we're talking to Martha Chang with us today who is a writer and also a chef. And just kind of talking about Martha, you're just, I'm curious to hear more about your perspectives as you see different parts of the local food, local ag industries. We're talking about chocolate. And that was the most recent cover story for Hawaii Farm and Food Magazine. So the picture of the cover right here. And so you're kind of talking about how you've seen other crops become, people get very excited about is the next big thing but you were saying that you feel that there may actually be something with chocolate. You wanna talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, I think that the chocolate market is, as they say, there's just not enough chocolate being grown right now. And one farmer I talked to will live gate stillgrass farms on Kauai. Like he said Hawaii's the only place in the U.S. where you can grow chocolate. And so it's also the only place where there's no cultural barriers between the people who are making chocolate and the people who are growing chocolate. So that just opens up all these possibilities of time. So when you say, so you're talking about like the chocolate deers, the ones who are taking the product and making it the final bar or whatnot and the actual growers. What do you mean by cultural barriers? Like what? Because right now almost all the chocolate is being grown in Africa or Central America or South America. And then most of all the makers are in Europe and America. So there's just this, there can be a cultural disconnect and there's also the distance. And so Hawaii, making Hawaii a cacao growing region opens up all these possibilities for the bean to bar makers to come here to really kind of influence and play with the cacao.  There's so many points along the way where you can change the final flavor. So yeah. Oh, interesting. So that's where there's more opportunity to be vertically integrated in Hawaii. Cause I know right now isn't most of the roasting of cacao, doesn't that need to be shipped out to California in their place in San Francisco where? That's the making. So actually, yeah. So most cacao when a bean to bar maker gets it is already roasted and processed. And then they turn it into the bars. And so I think the one you're thinking of is dole, dole used to grow the cacao, ferment it and roast it and then ship it to Qatar in San Francisco to make into bars. But dole is starting to recognize that the vertical integration could be very valuable. And so they're actually now keeping all their cacao and doing it in-house. So they're making all their own bars now. So just in the past year, they started doing this. Oh, wow. And right now, so there's this huge demand for the Hawaii chocolate, but there's not enough being grown. Not enough like locally grown cacao. Yeah. So a lot of the bean to bar makers here now are having to import their beans. It's like the bean to bar makers are like, I know, Madre chocolate. Manoa chocolate. Manoa chocolate. Yeah. Those are the two main ones. Okay. Well, that's great to see. I mean, you need to have that, you know, the value added part of it as well. And like how you say it too, where there's more of that connection between the cacao growers, because I imagine probably cacao growers, if they're growing in a different part of the world, especially if it's a developing part of the world, they're probably not getting the most fair prices for the work that they're doing. So if you have more of that integration and appreciation of the growers and then all the way to that final bar, then hopefully that makes for a more fair industry. Yeah, yeah. And I think tying back into Terramajae or the big theme of Terramajae this year. Oh yeah, let's go into Terramajae. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. Oh, you're good to do the show. The big theme of this year's conference was biodiversity. Okay. And...  Yeah. So Terramajae is a biannual conference for Slow Food. Slow Food was an organization that started in Italy, kind of basically has a response to fast food. So a way to kind of reclaim some of the cultural, or culinary heritage and just celebrate, they call it good, clean and fair food. So environmentally clean and fair for the workers. So every other year they kind of throw this conference in Italy to bring together people around the world, a lot of farmers and chefs around the world to talk about just what they're dealing with, some issues that they're dealing with. And it's also, then they also have this huge market alongside the conference where they showcase just all of the food. Just food from everywhere. Yeah.  This is crazy. Well, it's funny though because it's, so this year was the first year they did it in the streets of Turin. So it was just, it like took over the city just all these stalls. But the funny thing is like so 75% of it was Italian. So all the different regions of Italy and all the different little products of all those regions in Italy. And then the rest was the rest of the world. So China had one booth, America had one booth. Like, so yeah, it was a little Italian centric. But yeah. Makes sense. So that's how the main theme was biodiversity. And so I think we forget that in every, everything we grow, there was and sometimes still is this huge biodiversity within each crop and chocolate's one of those examples. Like there isn't just one variety cacao. And so there's a guy on Maui who's, who's toying with the idea of like making a single varietal cacao. Like the same way you would do a Cabernet Sauvignon or a Camarillo. And I just, I just think that's interesting to like tease out all those different varieties. Cause I think that's also how you create like a more resilient farm, right? Cause I imagine, yeah, there might be some benefits to having that one being that's known for Hawaii. But like you're saying, having different flavors, different experiences. And also if you're the chocolatier, you may want to experiment with different things as well. Yeah. And I think it's beneficial for the farmer too, because you kind of, you kind of don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah, yeah. No, unintended. Like you're saying that being more, less resistant to disease of one variety as an issue, you have other varieties to rely on. Yeah. And that's similar to like, we've had guys on here before talking about permaculture and a very similar concept to that. Now, who else was at the conference? Cause there's always a good contingent from Hawaii. Who else was there this year? So this year was Majer chocolate. Oh, perfect. Most, I swear he was the most popular person of all. Oh, I bet. He's always like, that just always carries chocolate with him, which is like, better currency than money. And then Charlie Rapoon from my whole life, yeah. So yeah, I knew it was super, it was fun. Like every time Charlie would see a farm, he'd kind of just like, he'd run out and like smell the dirt and like taste it, just to see what it all like. It's good all up in there. Yeah. So, and then there was some, there was, cause we have a big Oahu contingent and then a big island contingent. Oh, okay. So there are some people from the big island as well. That seems like a good combination where you have, you as kind of like the chef, writer, and then you have Nat, who's like the value added processor. You have Charlie, who's the grower. So it's a neat combination. Yeah.  Do you kind of go through or with them or is it just kind of going on your own? Oh yeah, we go through Slow Food Oahu. Oh, okay. Yeah. So Lori Carlson, who is the president of Slow Food, actually, I think she's actually the governor of the whole region. Okay. So yeah, she kind of organizes us and takes us under her wing. Nice. So yeah. That sounds exciting. So what would you, and it was a week long conference or is it longer than that? Yeah, it was about, I think, about a week, five days. Okay. Yeah. So you're eating, meeting people from all over the world, trying different things. So what did you foresee or what do you see that anything you learned that could be adapted maybe in Hawaii as kind of strengthening our food system here? I think embracing the biodiversity was a big one. So a lot of the workshops were centered around that. So there was a Ugandan chef who prepared different ways of cooking all these different bananas, which I thought was super relevant to us, right? Yeah. Because we have so many varieties of bananas. And the chocolate, I don't know if it's the other, okay, what's the other workshops for? Oh, but there was also Chinese farmers. I went to a session where Chinese farmers were talking about some of the things they grow and how they're trying to grow differently from the large industrial machine. And there's tons of biodiversity at China, right? I think probably even more than Italy, it just doesn't, we don't hear about it as much because of translation issues. But, so I guess that to me is the main thing is celebrating Hawaii's biodiversity and the products that we make. But I mean, my other, I don't know if this isn't anything concrete, but like the thing I realized when I was in Italy, it's, you know, the Terra Madre is about celebrating all these like artisanal foods. But the fact is like, even Italy isn't immune to industrialization, right? Everywhere you go, there's still like, there's still the McDonald's, there's still supermarkets. Not everyone goes to the farmer's market. And I think, I don't know, but I do think that for every, so there was this big talk at Terra Madre how we need to kind of stand up to the, stand up to the industrial companies. And so I do feel like so for every action, there's another reaction, right? So as much as these industrial companies, the large industrial companies will grow, there will be more and more of the artisanal ones kind of in reaction or more of a preservation of them. But I also don't think that it needs to be one or the other. Like I'm really interested in the space in between. Like how can you grow a larger company that also cares about taste and labor and environmental issues? Yeah, I'm really interested in that space in the middle. Yeah, yeah. Well, it seems like a very, you know, practical way to look at it because you definitely have, kind of sometimes describe Hawaii's food economy as almost like two camps. You have like kind of your old school ad guys or big farm, including like the seed core companies, they have like these smaller permaculture type farms. And I think that's always kind of in my perspective too, is like these two camps need to figure out how we're all gonna work together. Because it's already so hard as it is just to have any agriculture in a place like Hawaii where there's so many pressures outside of the industry to just really kind of push it out of the way. So I think that's a neat perspective. And also too with where you are at the Hawaii Farm Bureau magazine. So I think that's a neat position for someone like you to be in to kind of showcase some of these smaller artisanal type farms and restaurants that are out there that maybe before haven't been associated with a group like the Farm Bureau. So I think that's neat and you've been exciting to see the different stories that have been in there. And I think it's a great resource. So moving forward with, I guess kind of your career or your different things that you're doing, what do you see as kind of next for you and what you wanna see happen? Oh yeah, don't ask me questions about the future. I never know, I wouldn't have guessed 10 years ago I didn't be here, or maybe even two years ago. So how about with adding more cooking into your career? Are you still cooking? Do you cook a lot at home? I cook some at home. I did, I have a cookbook coming out in January. Oh, how did that slide this past 29 minutes? Let's do a plug for that real quick, but only have about a minute. Okay, I'm sure you've heard Poké super hot right now. Yep. So a publisher in New York asked if I wanted to do a Poké cookbook, which to be honest, I was very hesitant about at first. Actually, I'm still very hesitant about it, given some of the controversy around it right now. And your Poké could be so controversial. I know, right? Yeah, sometimes we can bring it together, but I think it's very divisive. So we're going to have to wrap it up there. Thank you so much, Martha. And as always, come back every Thursday, and we will see you in a quick vlog.


Because you've done what most guys are way too scared to do. Girls would rather join the army and stand in front of bullets than walk up to a random girl on the street. Swear to God. Steve's laughing because he knows.  I'm sure a lot of you guys in here have done day game. The fact that you're here, you know all that goes.  I was at Starbucks and this guy just came up and he was totally flirting with me and he was hot and now I'm going on a date with him. I've been going out with all these Tinder guys and that sucks, so this is awesome.   There's nothing worse than chasing a girl down and getting her to stop and she just, it's like the most deflating thing ever. You just feel like, ugh, it's the worst. So one of the things that I'm so meticulous about with my clients when they're starting a day game is the only thing that you should be worried about on the beginning is just getting her to stop and getting her complete and undivided attention. Because even if you're walking with her and you don't have her attention, she's not really going to hear what you say. You might have a funny or witty opening line.  She's in her own world. She's doing something that she's going to grocery store. She's going to get dry cleaning. She's not thinking about a conversation happening. She's not expecting it. So when you kind of break that bubble, you need to make sure you have her undivided attention before you launch into whatever you're going to say. So make sure you get her to stop.


Hi everyone, Joe for JaspysCaseBreaks.com. Happy Thursday, coming out to you with 2019 Panini XR Football, XR Football. Five box, pick your team number three from JaspysCaseBreaks.com. A very big thank you to all of these folks for getting into the action. Now everyone here, except for the number block spots, everyone has a shot at the Cardinals. That's why there's a little blank space up there. Everyone has a shot at the Cardinals. So let's get everyone here. Let's delete the number block spots here, and let's clear out that spot right there. So it's that group of people right there. Name on top after 10, five and a five. Name on top after 10, we'll get the Cardinals in spray. Two, three, four, hard 10, six, seven, eight. And 10th and final time. Name on top after 10 is gonna be Aaron Billingsley. There you go, Aaron. Congrats to you. Thanks to the Ravens, just one team picked up. You now have the Cardinals. Put the little rooftop next to your name so you know you won that in this little randomizer. And now let's print and rip. Good luck, everybody. I don't remember, what did we pull? Did we pull any collard murray autographs? I wanna say no. All right, that's the number block right there. So you block the numbers for these teams right here. That's in a separate video. And here is the official printout for pick your team three on July the 30th. Thanks, everyone, for getting in. Appreciate it. There you go, that's what we're looking for in 2019 XR. The Clippers-Lakers game on. The first game of the restart for both of these teams. Jazz won earlier today. Beat the Pelicans in an exciting game. This is exciting, too. It's pretty close. Lakers up by six, 96-90. After the free throw, 96-91. Three, 38 left in the fourth quarter on TNT. Pretty exciting finish. So what am I doing here? How many cards are in the back? Oh, there's a redemption back here. Any guesses on that redemption? All right, we got Gilded Greats, Marshall Fock to 99, Rams. So we'll agree right there. And we've got Benny Snell Jr. to 199, Aaron Donald to 199. There's Antoine Wesley to 249, and Andrew Luck to 249. How crazy was that? Andrew Luck was just like, hey, I'm done. All right, and behind Darnell Savage. Oh, that's an autograph. Sorry, autograph, 35 and 99. Darnell Savage Jr. for the Packers, Anthony. Sorry, Anthony, kind of dropped that card there, but we've got this rubber mat right here to protect it. All right, we've got Devin Singletary right here to 99 as well, Triple Relic for Matthew Perlstein. Last one, Mojo on that one. Buffalo! Do you think Luck comes back? Sup, Ricky, what's going on? All right, I got Rookie XL Swatch autographs. T, T, Rookie T's, Tom Thomas, Tony. Tony Pollard, right, for the Blue Horseshoes. No, for the another blue team, for the Dallas Cowboys. That's actually for number zero. Chris Parent, there you go. All right, next box.  My buddy is, well, it's funny for me, not for him. My buddy, I think it was, this was late August. I remember, because I think it was his birthday. It was late August when he announced it. We had our big fantasy football draft, the weekend before. And we were, and then that weekend, it was his birthday last year, and we were talking about the draft and having a good time at this little house party and everything. And then a couple of the guys started looking at their phones and there was like, whoa! You know, it was kind of a moment. They were like, Andrew Luck just retired. You know, and my buddy was like, no. I just, it was an auction draft and he had paid a lot of money. And you know, Andrew Luck's supposed to be healthy. He was, you know, blah, blah, blah. He's like, yeah, he just retired. And we're like, no, that's, and then we all looked at our phones like, oh my God, and then you started to break and everyone was like, Andrew Luck retired, Andrew Luck retired. It was crazy. It was a moment. Was Aaron Rogers to 99? Yeah, he had, it's an auction draft and we have a lot of like 12, 14 teams and it's a two QB league. So QBs are really important in this fancy football league in this particular one. There's the King Butler, Jersey and Otto to 199. So yeah, he had put in a lot. This season was pretty much done. I forget who his second QB was, but I think he was like, he had paid the most for Andrew Luck. He was supposed to anchor that team for him. Cardinals, Aaron Billingsley won that spot with Brian Burns and there is 75 miles, Boykin for the Ravens. That'll be for Aaron Billingsley as well. So yeah, I forget who his second QB was, but it was sad times for him. Does he come back though? Anyone think he's going to come back? Is that a plate down there? What color is that team? What color was that? McKeel, Harry. I think he might have come back this year if it wasn't for this whole COVID thing. But I wouldn't be surprised if 2021, he comes around and says, you know what? I took some time off. I feel healthy. I feel the bubbling of football passion again. Brandon says no. There's Keen now into 199. Had in the right place family on his mind, but what if he's just like, I'm sick of my family now. Hungry for some football now. All right. We got Garrett Bradbury to 199. And it's a triple relic in auto? Wow. Triple relic and autograph. Nice Dwayne Haskins, one of one.  I guess the Washington football team now. Straight up. There you go. So John, all aboard the Big Hit Express. MTG says luck won't come back according to a lot of people. I don't know. I mean, did anyone think that he was going to retire? I bet no one could have seen that. So maybe no one can really see him coming back either. Look at the site, David Ross. No, that'll be your answer is there. Jasky's casebreaks.com. Ah, Terrence and Christian ruined it.  I was trying to do the whole teach a man to fish kind of thing, but all right. That's fine. It's all good. See? We don't have the best community here for nothing. Some of the nicest guys here. All right, there's Sam Darnold to 199. Lamar Jackson to 149. And JJ Arthigo Whiteside, Jersey and autograph to 75. Fly Eagles Fly. The Eagles are a number block team. So that'll go to Eagles four. That'll be for Jared Brinkner. Eagles four. I think the mile center is just numbered card. Yeah, it's 249. This reminds, this fanatic commercial reminds me that I need to buy Dodgers All-Star Game T-shirts. I think they're still available on either the, probably the fanatic store or Dodgers.com or whatever. Another JJ Arthigo Whiteside, 1794. Now remember, the MLB All-Star Game was supposed to be at Dodger Stadium this summer, which would have been awesome. I was going to go blah, blah, blah, home on Derby, et cetera, et cetera. I had a whole summer planned. But it's gone, but they have all these T-shirts printed. Oh, Eagles are a number block team. So what is that? Eagles seven, right there. That'll be for Jeremy Agnew. There's Quinn and Williams to 199 and a Maximal Rally, 21 out of 49, Will Fuller, Rokeo, with them. So I have to buy those All-Star Game T-shirts. And then once the All-Star Game is back in two years, I think, I think next year is already slated for somewhere. And I think the year after that wasn't decided yet, so they gave it back to the Dodgers. Just like the draft is gonna be in Vegas again next year because Las Vegas didn't get it, it was supposed to be this year. So imagine if I'm rocking a 2019 All-Star T-shirt. What's my favorite product for football? This one right here, XR Football. This one, thanks for filling it up, ladies and gentlemen. Look out for more in the store, at jaspyscasebreaks.com. All right, we've got Brian Urlocker, Gilded Greats, 99. Caleb Wilson to 199. And DeMarcus Lawrence to 199. All right, Hakeem Butler reveals a Jersey Nautanoa fan to 199 for my rivals, the Broncos. Broncos are a number block team. That'll go to 148 out of 199. Chris Bay, number eight. All right, there's J.G.R. Thiegel-Whiteside to 249. Aero Donald to 99. No, no, no, they won't have the MLB All-Star Game next year in 2021, because I think it's already been spoken for, that venue, they already announced it. So I think it's 2022, is when it'll come back to LA. I'm pretty sure that's what I heard. I'll have to double check that, but... We've got Alexander Madison, 16 out of 25. Vikings, Vikings are a number block team. Vikings six, Aaron Pettit. Aaron Pettit, if Dalton Cook ends up forcing his way out or if they don't re-sign him or something like that, if he's unhappy, guess what? This guy, this guy's gonna be the guy. All right, behind Minshew is Will Greer to 149. 41 out of 149, Panthers, Phil. And the NFL Draft, MTG will also be, it was supposed to be in Vegas this year, at the new Raiders Stadium, but it's gonna be, it's gonna be in Vegas next year. So the Raiders will have another crack at it. So I gotta get my 2019, or my 2020 MLB All-Star Game T-Shirts at Dr. Stadium.  I like a nice clean stadium, parents. I like a nice clean stadium. Christian McCaffrey, Al-Sean Jeffery, Daryl Henderson to 199 and to 49. Marlon Mack, return of the Mack. And behind Christian Wilkins is Juju Smith, Schuster autograph, exponential ink. That's nice, one out of 25 Steelers. Steelers are a number block team. Steelers one, Jared Brinkner. There you go, Jared. Well, this Clippers Lakers game is getting close. Ooh, what a shot by Paul George, 101 to 100. No, it's, that's a three. 101 to 101, 25 seconds left. LeBron bringing up the ball. There's Damian Harris, triple relic, five out of 25. Patriots, Aaron Pettit with the pats. LeBron, Jane floats one on from the rim, gets his own rebound and scores again. 103 to 101, 12.8 seconds left. We got extreme rookies to 149, Hakeem Butler. Devin White to 99, Drew Brees to 249. And behind Marquise Blair, your last hit is gonna be Jersey and Otto Justice Hill to 199. 116 out of 199, Justice being served to Aaron Billingsley who won the Cardinals. Nothing significant for the Cardinals, but a couple nice hits in there. You had the opportunity, you had the chance. You were in the hunt. Thanks for getting in. Thanks everyone for getting in. I don't, there's probably some non-numbered cards for this group right here. So let me just do a quick randomizer for that. Let's flip back to that screen right here. Let's grab everybody's names. Get a blank list. Let's get a new dice. New dice. And after three times, name on top gets non-numbered cards. One, if any. Two and three. Jared. So there you go Jared. If there's any non-numbered cards, probably in this base card section here, you'll be getting them as one lot. Thanks for watching. I'm Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com. We'll see you next time for the next one. Bye-bye.


Relax, relax even more, keep relaxing, nice deep breaths with the relaxing. Everything is, everything is, and that infinite is love, is, always, impossible. The love that is not an object, the love that is everything, that is nothing. Keep relaxing, body to be, nothing to attain as the wholeness is already unconditional love, is everything, it's without condition, without no separation, it's what's always already. This, keep, relax, the love and perfection that everything always is, nothing can be done to change the perfection of doing no amount of, no amount of anything that is everything is always simple, ordinary, infinite, is-ness, is not an experience, it's not a sensation, it's what's always, the very that is sought, actually what everything is, is actually unconditional love and it can't find itself in, relax as what is, this what is, is not something to own, this unconditional love is not something to objectify or attain, it is what is already, simply what is already, the unconditional love is impossible to find because it is what is already into the wholeness that always already is, thing, everything, home is not, it's what is already, the know is already, the know this is, there is no, there is only unconditional love, there is only wholeness, there is only what can never be lost, can never be lost, is the indescribable, that everything always it is infinity, it is this, it is this ASMR, it is this appearance in its entirety, is all unconditional love and however it is, conditional freedom and love, it's ungraspable, it's unmanipulable, simple unconditional love, simple everything-ing, there's no way to move away from closer to the unconditional, it is everything, it is already without entity, it is already without location or position, it is already wholeness, precious unconditional love that can never be left, never be lost, celebrate, unconditional love can never be lost, it can never be left.


If you're looking for expert legal answers to all your property related questions, then stay tuned. It's wonderful having you here. A very warm welcome. This is your Property Rights podcast. I'm Paul Rotherham and this show proudly brought to you by Private Property. I cannot believe we are already into Episode 4. Silna joins me once again in studio. Silna Stain, the MD of SSLR Incorporated Attorneys. Silna is not only a lovely lady but also an expert when it comes to property law. How are you today Silna? I'm so good. Thanks Paul. How are you doing? I'm doing fabulously well. I'm ready to hear your answer and it's amazing how something that seems so simple very often has a complicated and complex answer and then vice versa. I have a feeling that today which is really quite a complicated question. I have a feeling there's going to be a very simple answer to this. So we're going to jump straight in and also just say thank you so much to you for interacting with us across our Private Property Portals, on our socials, our website and all of the other good places where you are enjoying the Private Property podcast. It's quite a mouthful that. Don't try and say that in a hurry. But it's thanks to you that we're able to put this show together and this is a question that came in very recently in fact. We've titled today's episode Moving Delays. Here's the question. Tenant A. This has been written by the landlord. Tenant A has given notice as per the agreement to vacate the property at the end of the term, which is perfectly normal. Tenant B, who's obviously replacing Tenant A, has entered into the lease agreement to take occupation on the date that the tenant is moving out and this I think is quite normal for landlords. You don't want a gap in between somebody moving in and out. The movers have been booked. Everybody is happy. Unfortunately, seven days before Tenant A was due to move out they've been diagnosed with COVID-19 and have been hospitalised. Sorry to hear that. There's nobody to assist with the move at the end of the month. Tenant B has no option but to move in because these plans have already been made. Tenant A is still in hospital. We're now getting into a really messy situation because Tenant B runs the risk of losing the deposit that's being paid to the removal company and now is faced with having to find funds to pay for storage and other accommodation and alternative arrangements. As you can see, this is really getting messy. We don't know how long Tenant A is going to be in hospital so this is starting to cause problems now. How on earth does one determine who is liable for all the additional costs that are going to be incurred here? Tenant A obviously didn't know they were going to get COVID. Nobody knows that. They had planned to leave the property on the date and time that was stated so that was all in writing and would have been honoured. Tenant B on the other hand is now losing money, has nowhere to live not because of any malicious intent but it's just how things are playing out. As I say, it is a bit of a long one but I thought with COVID doing the rounds at the moment this must be something that has happened before so thank you so much for such a wonderful question for today's Your Property Rights podcast. Silna, let's get into this. Where do we start? Well, luckily for me it makes me answering this question much easier but unfortunately for the time that we're living in for the past two years, I'm saying two years now I'm there where I realise we've been living in the COVID situation for slightly less than two but in my head it's been quite some time. So since the start of COVID in South Africa I have seen this question so many times and it causes so much heartache and pain and financial stress and the answer is actually, as you rightly said in the beginning of the show a very simple answer. When we went into initial full lockdown the terms vismayor, causa fortuitous all those terms that goes to impossibility of performance in terms of a contract suddenly came up and as an attorney obviously studied law at a time where COVID wasn't even a thing we probably wouldn't have used these terms as often as we do now luckily by now I think every attorney in the world is very well versed when it comes to this. This is where this answer is going to centre around. Those answers just again for those of us who didn't take Latin thankfully I did. It got as far as a mo, a mass, a mat, a marmos, a martis, a month which I won't bore you with but those terms that you've mentioned in layman's terms that is when something happens outside of your control in a contract is that what you're saying? Exactly, your Latin translations are perfect. Oh wonderful, even though I got an H when I was at school I really did. Okay so that is COVID plugged straight into that and that is a standard part of any contract is it any agreement that we have? Yes and even if it is not written into a contract very often the logical application of that would find a place but in the majority of residential lease agreements there will be a clause that says should the tenant not be able to take occupation on the planned occupation date? For some or the other reason outside of the landlord's control then in such case the tenant won't be able to take occupation but can't claim anything from the landlord and until such a time we can take occupation must set calmly lease agreement won't terminate automatically but can be cancelled by mutual agreement without penalty to either party. Now most lease agreements have this the lease agreement, the widest use lease agreement in South Africa is the TPN lease back lease now luckily I am one of the drafting attorneys of that lease so I know him pretty much as well as I know the back of my hand and that lease agreement specifically deals with a situation like that not by term, not and I definitely discourage any landlord to ever write something as specific as what happens if my tenant has COVID into your lease agreement the law is too wide and if you limit it to COVID-19 what happens if the same thing comes up but the person has a stroke two days before he has to move so we leave the door open so I do appreciate that COVID-19 right now is the more obvious or more likely thing that somebody might have and for the same reason might have to isolate in the property or something similar but things happen and even though moving days today out coming tenant is ready incoming tenant is ready and something comes up they can't move in a situation like that weed was definitely outside of the control of all the parties unfortunately nobody will have it lame against anybody else Does that mean then Silner that tenant A who is still living on the property and whose lease has expired does that mean that they still have rights to leave their bags, their bedding, their possessions during the time that they are incapacitated those need to remain where they are untouched the landlord can't pack them up and stick them in a back room or a garden shed or force the remover to come and take them out and tenant B who is waiting in the wings ready to come in unfortunately just has to be patient am I understanding that correct? you are understanding it 100% correct and you are understanding it from the view of section 26 of the constitution now if we start pulling in the constitution it means this is the the umbrella legislation and the highest ranking law in our country is the constitution section 26 of the constitution says that no person may be evicted or have the property demolished without a court ordering to do so after the relevant circumstances has been taken into consideration what this means is if somebody doesn't give the right of occupation back freely and willingly lease comes to an attendant moves out, takes all his stuff out gives the keys to the landlord if that doesn't happen the only way in South Africa regardless of the surrounding circumstances of getting a person then out of the property would be to approach a court and obtain an eviction order now in a context like this the person is in hospital or even isolating at home I don't think anybody with a reasonable mind is going to force them to be evicted that's kind of logical exactly and if you approach a court with an eviction on a person like that the court is simply going to say wait, wait, wait I'm taking the relevant circumstances into consideration that the constitution requires of me and I'm not granting an eviction of order plus you won't be in court with an eviction that quick but I'm not granting this order because this person didn't say they're not going to vacate they can't vacate now and at the same token the tenant B that must come in unfortunately yes, there's a financial loss on that person they have no way to go they're probably going to have to stay in an Airbnb for a week or so unfortunately they are going to have to absorb those costs themselves because the landlord's not responsible for this exiting tenant isn't responsible for this the only time where there would be a claim here is if tenant A doesn't have COVID or a good reason they just not moving or they didn't take the time to make the necessary arrangements to move in a case like that tenant B has a claim against the landlord because remember he doesn't have a relationship with tenant A but the landlord then has a damages claim directly against tenant A who is the direct reason for these damages being suffered I really think it's a relevant question particularly now with COVID-19 we are hoping that it's going to be falling off the radar but for now it's still very much with us we do still have a few minutes in this episode and I'd just like to touch on something and it might involve a whole new episode in which case please let me know if it does but you mentioned at the beginning that it is specifically when something is out of your control so you've had a stroke or a heart attack God forbid or you have gone into hospital with COVID to what extent do we determine something to be out of our control let's say for instance I lose my job sorry landlord I've lost my job I can't pay your rent but I can't afford to leave because I can't afford to live anywhere else is that a topic for another day or does that plug into this sort of conversation just briefly no he plugs in perfectly for example I think a separate topic we won't cover enough but it's a very good question so we go back to the reasonable person test if it's impossible for a reasonable person not to move in a situation like this then we say this is out of your control objectively it's out of your control unfortunately financial difficulties doesn't make something impossible there's the answer right there that's why I said it won't take a whole episode to say that one little statement because I was just picturing this person who's in your dark room playing computer games all day couldn't be bothered to work and at the end of the month oh sorry I don't have the money to pay you and I can't move out because I can't live anywhere else well sorry for you but you're there by your own circumstances your own choices and that was very much within your control and what you've just said there Silna finances don't come into play here you cannot use financial reason for an out of control we're talking generally then health I would imagine yes or some other that's my own event what I mean by that act of God and that's a legal term yes so act of God obviously being something completely out of control of any other person you can't blame anyone it happened through as you've said an act of God so unfortunately in this instance thank you so much that was a wonderful question in this instance unfortunately the landlord here is the person who's going to lose out actually more tenant B because he is going to have to pay for his accommodation okay true in the time he can't take occupation and obviously tenant A and we didn't mention that so I'm very happy we're taking this little turn tenant A will be responsible for pro-rated rent up to the point where they can vacate that was going to be the landlord's out of pocket because now you've extended but no that's tenant A who's due so even if you've been hospitalized with COVID if you have extended past where your lease was ending you're liable to pay that 100% pro-rated rent at the very least I'm so glad you mentioned that I'm so glad you asked wonderful you're welcome to join in the conversation across our private property platforms let us know what your experiences have been with this are you somebody who perhaps found yourself on the receiving end of this were you a COVID victim yourself in hospital and you came out of hospital having to now sort this out you can comment in our comment section start the conversation and if there is anything that comes up from that then perhaps we will include it in future episodes of this your property rights podcast joined in studio by Silner thank you very much Silner for joining us for another one thank you Paul it was fun as always very insightful I'm Paul Rotherham and this has been another podcast proudly brought to you by Private Property your property rights podcast is proudly brought to you by Private Property leave a comment or ask a question to join the conversation


ni ni? Ki kuzapa You know, I was imagining. What you see online and on the ground are 2 different things eh. Kibimuna is onakini iitak but we are not enemies. Wao. Good people and welcome back to SPM bars and Saudi TV. We are right here at the Jumu Kenyatta International Airport. Tukuna nani? Tukuna heldakata be Mi wa writer waiting for Andrew Kibbe Ni ni kujine? So first of all its breaking news, as you can see But I don't care You care? I care, I care So we have been here since around 7 in the pm Asmobubu paliweko ni mi tandewe ya kialko menezok Kosen wako batakua na tua Ha pancheeni, kuaze amida ya sa mojojioni She was there The meetings started at 9 Frame Som contigstud more 10 min The meeting will start right after chopping off the video We expected to address the nation unfortunatili Unfortunatili nailed correspondent we saw him arrive We just saw him arrive and then we saw him leave So even do kumenda leo Let me ask you first of all Uh where we munewe as a host Did you have like expectations on what maybe he would talk about Akifika? I did have expectations on what he would talk about He's been away from home for a while So I wanted to know at least why Why is he here even And a lot of other questions And of course uh talking over the fact that he has been out of the country for some time Kuliko na watu umbol kwa na sema ita kuwangumu kwa Andrew Kibbe kuru di hapanchini Because of course as we all know uh Andrew Kibbe kila siku wana kwa nga na dawa Na hida wana kwa nga kali Kali sena kwa kenya wengi But of course at na kwa nga na nili kwa na Na zungumu zena rafkyangu mojana kwa na sema Uh we would say Celebrities in this country have fans But Kibbe has followers Imagine what is that one thing Okay what is that one thing you love about Kibbe I feel like Kibbe is loved and hated in equal measure Um but sometimes he says what we don't want to hear Sometimes he's right And sometimes he just doesn't make sense That's that's how I feel And I think for me waka tuna sema loved and hated on equal measures I would say probably yes Anapendwa Lakin ni suji umbona kwa wengi watu anam tukia And of course kamao nivosa ma ni sababi ulu ukelia maulabda na nambia wa kenya Sometimes and of course for me I think that was the time I was quote-unquote Recluded to hate him because of his stand on women Yeah yeah of course Yeah yeah yeah and um Kuna katin kwa nengia palivokwa ni chaneli akena mskizaki dogo And uh Ili fikiya ma linka sema okay Uh probably it was time we understood Kibbe To some point Of course uh kutakana na machungi akena kina dada kuna reason Kuna reason maybe Elabda kuna piya part of his life and by haja wa ikutu eleza in full Of course kuna stories ambazo trukotumia ambua mara hayuko in good terms with his mom and things like that Uh but later on essentially sometimes we have uh the truth The bitter truth we receive from Andrew Kibbe But uh before telling our side of the story I want us to interact with the one person ambaya So we um we continue and interact with people I feel like story tellers we always know there's a story behind the story And that's why when you start listening to the likes of Kibbe the likes of Tate First of all go there with an open mind Because if you don't get with an open mind hakuna kitu taskiana sema There's nothing he will say that he will actually make sense So we talk to one of the people ambaya Elabda amua ikua on the receiving ends The Andrew Kibbe We welcome our Belis the guy BTG News Paliwek on your YouTube and all platforms Hello hello Fresh fresh She Yeah Nihili ze tu suali Kukuna o gopa Gopa nene Okiku japa You know I was imagining Because I'm telling you one thing what people don't know Uh what you see online And on the ground are two different things Kibbe nene zona kini atak But we're not enemies No na we're not enemies Probably we talk behind the scenes Probably I'm saying probably Si na ma nisha titu naongiaga Chwambili om naongiaga Probably we talk Si semi kad naongiaga But maybe maybe not And so uh what fans think about Say me or the likes of the Seminani Situ mi ata iiw Di ata iiwa na kwa receiving end Ali kwa Siyo So unazadani venyu na nga tiki Kibbe na ingiliakina Say Trevor iiw nene nene Ndivo waki kutana apaita kua Wata kua enemies No that is not how it works Probably tuki kutana Uku chini upma uku inje Tutawongi atu Yeah So it's safe to say Yotei na kwangatu kipindi Si kipindi Inaita agwa entertainment That is part of entertainment Yeah Let me ask you labda Hiwileo Sbubu kibbe ulkwa na fika panchi Nilabda Tu ulkwa tu na expect aongiaga Witu gani labda ulkwa na expect Azungumzi e sana First of all Let me express my disappointments Kamami mi nime kuja last minute You guys are witnesses Nime kuja last minute Like nime fika tu hivi Ni kawana Pasawa na kimiya pala na toka So nilkwa na expect tu aongiaga Kibbe is kibbe So I expected several things from him Amang them being Of course talk about his new platform That is Africa And among other things Of course atungu kwa servituza kumuliza Because you guys already know That Andro kibbe is controversial So nilkwa na expect a lot of things But I don't have a problem with him You know if he's into speaking stuff Shidangu ni moja Awa saywa kwa mami mimichu kuwa ukuhia pod Androm mi aarebu kila kitu Because kibbe was willing to speak Nime wana pahali pahale Tu na mambia ingi aivi Nani na ku ingi aivi Tumtigi intervi Lakin na ona na avruto at the other side So kibbe at least tu mimi wana You know we've taken Atia kwa zakuongi Ni newspear Ya Let me ask you Are you a kibbe follower? I'm not only a follower I'm also a big fan Mi ni fan wa kibbe Though I'm not a male chavenist Nihim siwim ni mistake Apondo nilkwa na chaka kujua Apana But I consume his content Wachani seime tu iwa Ya I consume Although I might not agree With everything he says But You know I love I appreciate Amma hua na respect jane aake Let me say that Ya na respect jane aake Because Nilianda kumfota From the time of rooftop uko You know Before it was like You know it was like Ni radio ingine Before kiss Energy Before it was like had energy You know the time Ali wana shina na kagilas tu wa na lewa tu Kibbe tu me kutuna Many times Lakin ni hajui You know because Then misi kwa Ni mengia deep into it Piyae ha kwa mengia deep Because we used to meet somewhere Kilimani na muwana Kilelesho kidogo Ata Akiwa ni ni Akiwa kiss The place he used to stay Na jwa Kilelesho wa Ya We actually went to Mingo Tuivi But Uro na laiki ame blobadae You know Ya so Personalina feel We have A lot of questions A lot of Maybe things that we can Maybe Tell Kenyans Dru kibbe Like via an interview A press or something So Maybe ni kitu aneza Ape adot Ate ata content creators Asa seme kuna press Or something like that No like Like you see You see Andro Kibbe Uro na kukuna platform Kamwa hiwa meting aneza Hiwa Africa Of course he needs You know media Ili I spread the news And so I'm sure ata hea me feel kitu You know Hiwa kupushu anase Wanam kibiza Kwa gari Like Man Hiwa hiwa me tumani fivi baju Nambu aneza takani Iski mo Ata mi Na kwa But then I'm a subscriber Me na kwaan Subscribe kwa Africa Ta ni kwaan takani Iski mo about it Venye ina lepa And You know many other things But Man it is what it is It is what it is It is what it is Maybe later ata tatu petia Maybe that press To skilize But kuna wanyo Of course kuna wanyo kwa na zile views That had young girl Maybe because of He's scared, loved her What do you guys think? Personali Sidani From Venye ni me mo na Sidani el kwa na ule woga Although kulu kwa na threats up na pala KRG the door Na vitu kamaizu Adiwa katitulifika tukambo yuko area Tukambo KRG yuko area So we are waiting to see What will happen What will prevail But zote zil kwa na rumas anyway But personali Sidani el kwa na ile woga Venye mi tijia me sema tu Kiba was willing to talk But unfortunately Labdawa loa tumbo al kwa nao Without otherwise Vitu kwa mahevesu Indio But what do we say? We did our best To mewapia video So mazo tumbeza kupata And in case we get a chance To interact with him Definitely Hapa evi biti genis SPM bo Sautiti vich do kwa palivu No. 1 kukulete ya niusa Ora any happening Kumferning, he stay right here In the country You have parting shots? Ya Tunaza kumkul diyo ni usta Ebu ebu niye mi Tunaza kumkul diyo ni usta Tunza usta ki kumjar Ase ma Ase ma Iyo ni usta But one thing I know For real Wasu al kwa nga pali Wengi Ma cameras, ma simulite Everyone Like attention itil kwa pali So probably Al kwa na kale kwa pride We minister Lemi teli wangi I have quoted by the way You see Wenge Ali toka palia kwa ona Camera sasa wang benda Kuna wenge ni kwa naf Nika Hadu uso But sitam juj Sitam jujju Maybe li kwa ilia Hajazoya camera iso zote Nikuelia manu wongo Hajazoya Hajazoya manu wongo Lagi ni hata wongi Onia iso camera dote zina kufolo You'll feel some type of way Heee Zoya moja E nini mihona mi interviewa po juzi Amai li hake wu ketichini So mi says muja But yoni mi sport Yoni li kwa highlight kwangu E nini mihona like nika dreams But all in all Tutahuptu atatupia Kipindi Safi Ni ni ni ni Ya so we have to wait and see what's up But na na na na Don't leave Kabla tumali zet Umbe like your favorite line Or maybe a statement kibia shai make Like can you lipend up kufro raya Akuna Kilda you have any I don't have I don't have Me too Zenyana juwa Are kind of Niluga chafu Kwei for his attitiza kuzungumza So thank you So thank you so much guys for watching Until next time I've been your host Shiko Gitao And now when you host Hilda Kataba Reporting straight From Jomokinyata International Airport Until next time guys Keep it Sauti TV and SPM Buzz


It is, it is How often do you use this airport? Oh gosh, probably four or five times in a year sometimes She's saying that four to five times, which means you're a war traveler Yep, I am How many countries have you been to? I've done 45, 45 countries so far 20 African countries and the other 20 is spread between Africa and Europe And Asia That's inspiring How do you manage to do all that? Well, sometimes work takes me abroad When I was in China, I came there to teach professionals in China And then sometimes I just volunteer, for instance, there was a time I traveled across Africa And it was mainly to get the world view of young Africans And also volunteer my skills as a professional So if someone is looking for a job, how can I help them, you know, get skills So I did that for free It seems I don't even know what to do, what do you do? Because you're talking about professionals, someone in China might think that You went to teach English? No What were you doing in China? Sir, I was actually teaching Chinese professionals how to behave when they go to other countries And there were a lot of them, there were over a thousand professionals travelling all over the world So you know how our cultures and norms are different And somehow they've been excluded, you know, they have their own rights I don't know what you're saying So yeah, how they have to behave and adapt to other cultures And not just behave the way they behave when they come So what is your main occupation? What do you do? I wear a number of hats So the short one is I'm a writer, I'm an educator, and then I'm a traveller Amazing So I'm a training consultant, I'm an intercultural fluency master trainer So whatever culture you want to go into and adapt I help you transition in adapting to cultures And then also I develop courses, so job seekers How to really excel at interviews and stuff like that And then I'm now building digital courses I'm actually looking for you so that we can collaborate on some digital courses You have so many things to share with the world You know how quiet I am? I'm happy to sit down with the most intelligent young African I've ever met Now let me shake your hand You know, I would love to hug you Let's continue the video When you are travelling in Africa Let's compare travelling in Africa and travelling in other parts of the continent Like other parts of the world I would say like what are the borders? Is it difficult? Travelling in Africa can be challenging I mean, I look at your videos and I see the stuff that you call them I wish I had a hat to literally take it off to you But it's challenging It's challenging, especially the way they treat us Africans And non-Africans don't necessarily go through the kind of challenge that we both do So it can be challenging, especially by road You know, by road I remember doing a trip from Namibia to Botswana And it was a single entry visa from Namibia They gave me so much hassle in Botswana So we can do better I think that we can do better within Africa We can't really do better within us So what I'm going to tell you is that Do you think that Africa should have no borders? I think that They can You know, in a way they can But then they should put in checks Because if you travel around Europe, they have the Schengen Zoo And no one is really checking Every now and then, if you're in a place like Switzerland If you're driving by road They might stop the bus and then check And ask people to come down and check Because that is what it is also Other people And they check that everything is okay So I think that they I mean, it's okay for debates But they should make it a bit easier for Africans Because it's sad to see that you're crossing the borders on Africa And your fellow Africans You are there to legit, you know Just go on vacation on holiday Or even like me, I was going to help people with skills And I was being strength for no reason My own money And then you see people who are non-Africans Just let them go And for me that is not fair So it's nothing to debate But at least they should rethink that You know, at least make it Yeah, if it's a free one, they should check But not, you know, tight-fisted You've been traveling to 45 countries You've been traveling to 45 countries What are you going to tell young Africans Who are looking forward to travel Within their own continent And also outside the continent I feel that travel for me Travel has built my confidence In such a great way It opens up my mind to other people And you know, like just yesterday I got a text message from someone Because I sent her a video of me in Ghana A Japanese girl I met is reading And she said, thank you for showing me Your beautiful continent I'll show you the text after the report Because if we are not also traveling To educate other Africans to the world Is a fantastic idea I believe in that strongly, you know But I feel that if every time we travel out We should also be ambassadors And educate people about our continent Because the media is not going to do it for us So wherever we are, we should So I feel that we should travel Even amongst Africa, we should travel And get to know each other They're trying to divide us We should travel and connect better Someone is sitting home right now Thinking, this lady is dragging Travel to 45 countries This is her passport Like one, two, three, four I want you to Educate a lot of young Africans out there Do you have a YouTube channel or something? I do have a YouTube channel I was on break, but now I'm back And I'm educating young Africans How to navigate the whole world Just for me, I will educate A lot of people out there for me Because I cannot do this all the time I'm doing my part, but I'd love to bring People like you on board Help educate people on how to go to discount How to do that, how to do that Thank you so much What's your name? My name is Edema Jaho Nice meeting you I am Maya Thank you, it's an honor Thank you for having me


Hello and welcome to NewsClick. In today's episode of Talking Science in Tech, we will be discussing the issue of TikTok and the pressure it is facing from various governments across the world. And more recently the US in where President Donald Trump has been threatening to ban the app. And now he has been citing security concerns saying that the Chinese Communist Party could be able to access this data of US citizens. And now he has been pressuring the app to sell its business to US tech giant Microsoft. So we are joined by Praveen Putharaj to discuss this issue. Praveen, can you first tell us about this deal itself and how much sense does it make for TikTok to sell its business to a company like Microsoft and from Microsoft to buy it when it's not even in the social media business? Well, let's for the time being forget about Microsoft what is in its interest. Clearly, TikTok is one of the hottest properties in the social media market. And if it gets a bargain basement price, which is what the United States government is trying to force mind-dance to do and get the TikTok version of the app for the American market, take it over completely. Well, it's a huge gain for Microsoft to enter a platform with a platform which is hot selling, which at the moment Microsoft does not have. It doesn't have any social media platform worth the name. So that of course for Microsoft it makes sense. But let's look at it from another point of view. The US government forcing a company which it allowed to enter the US. It allowed this app to be downloaded by I think last year, the millions of people have downloaded this app inside the United States. It is one of the, as I said, one of the hottest selling social media properties that has come in the last two years. TikTok has been a huge hit with the youngsters. Now let us also look at what the government of the United States is saying. And earlier the Indian government had also said by banning 59 Chinese app, in which TikTok was also one of them, that these are security threats. Now, how are 20-year-olds or 25-year-olds or 18-year-olds who are lip-syncing to some music and dancing, 30-second clips are a defense or a security threat to this country's, I do not know. So it's basically a part of a larger trade war or strategic economic war that countries may be waging. In the case of India it was clearly a response made to the border clashes. In the case of the United States they have been conducting a trade war and a tech war against China for the last more than a year. And now that the trade war doesn't seem to be going anywhere, Trump has expanded it to a tech war against Huawei first, now it has started against Chinese apps and the intention is very clear. The intention is that get rid of as far as it can all the Chinese network products, personal computers, smartphones, as well as software or apps in the market. Now this is a process of economic disengagement. It is not simply a war, it's basically disengaging completely from the Chinese economy and whether that is possible in the long run or not is a different question, but that's really that. And the first or the critical element of that has been essentially the network. So that's why when Pompeo talks about the clean network program, the idea is at least from the telecommunication network on the and the internet, particularly the internet, where the future of technology is going to be decided, that area to try and keep China out or at least break it into multiple regions. But each one would then have control over and then a kind of economic and technological autarchy if you will, in which these markets split completely. Now splitting the internet, which is the consequence of all of this, is not a happy prospect because ultimately it is the internet and the free movement of information on the internet that has really created the new quote unquote network society that we are seeing. So this would be a really huge blow to that. So there are huge repercussions of this, not simply from the trade and technology point of view, but also from the point of view of communications, which if you remember, this was the telecommunication age is when telephone networks connect to each other and the telephone networks connecting the next connection is really the internet and that also connects to each other seamlessly. If we fracture that what is going to happen, we don't know. So I think the implications of this go far beyond simply tech rivalry or economic rivalry. And I think the United States government is entering into all of this without a clear idea of where this could go and it is working on the basis of not of a strategic understanding but of a piecemeal understanding. And I think that's true for Indian government also. If you want to fight with China economically, technically, if that is the understanding, then you must understand what it means for your strategic role in the world and it also your economic role in the world. India, if you look at its expansion in terms of the future, then China is a close partner because it's true that China exports more to us than we export to China but China is a very significant part of our exports as well. So given all of that, this kind of trying to break away from each other, I think just is not limited to apps but it is consequences far beyond that. Coming to the more simple question that you said, why or how is United States doing it? Let's put it for what it is. This is daylight robbery of the property of bindance forcing it virtually at gunpoint to sell its assets at a low price. How is it being done? Because the US says I'm outside global laws, I can do what I want. And they have used what in WTO's terms is called the nuclear option which is say this endangers the security of a country. Now the security of a country is one exception that WTO recognizes and which trade barriers can be put up. So they have put up trade barrier on all these issues, claiming security exception and the security exception has also been used against for instance on import of steel, import of aluminum. Even there it has used the security exceptions not only against China but against others as well. If you see that trajectory of the US, it also needed the WTO's trade rules also should be sabotaged and the US did that by not putting, not accepting any dispute settlement new member in the tribunal as a result of which WTO's dispute settlement now process is completely sabotaged. So US has had a plan to sabotage each of these institutions and also now violate international law openly and say my laws, I can do what I want and I can therefore expropriate by dance app TikTok for my, for Microsoft or any company that I favor and if you don't do it, then I will expropriate it directly or I will say okay, we ban it completely like India has done. So TikTok will not be able to, TikTok videos or TikToks whole app apps will stop working in the United States. So this is where we are at the moment, but this is also now being extended to WeChat for instance. Now WeChat is also the way trade takes place with China. For instance, India once WeChat has been banned WeChat was a means for India to trade Indian traders or Indian buyers to trade with Chinese producers and Chinese buyers because it did not need for each other to know their languages. WeChat is very good translation software by which they could talk to each other and trade doesn't mean that you need to know all the nuances and actually exchange goods without having to know each other's language. So if WeChat is banned, which is what it is at the moment, trade anyway becomes more difficult. But if we disengage the way the United States wants to do and appropriate or stop these apps from functioning, the question is what are the repercussions? So the repercussions are obviously on the US companies and US apps as well because what it is accusing of TikTok, stealing data as it says. Now Communist Party is a hoax basically what it says Chinese government. Well, all those things are applicable to US companies and US apps as well. Facebook, Google, all companies they take data and put it on US servers and those servers all the data is accessible to intelligence agencies openly. This is a part of the US law that the intelligence agencies can access any data of any individual on the servers of any company which is there in the United States. So this is a hoax when we talk about that this is Chinese are doing this as if the American companies have not and if we come to networks then Cisco's backdoors are a legend. I remember an intelligence analyst telling me a military intelligence person telling me that yes of course Cisco's backdoors are well known therefore our communication networks within the Indian military we didn't use Cisco routers and now we know after students revelations now of course when students revelations are also quite sometime back we know that Cisco had routers which are openly left in their equipment which were known to the US government which was not known to others. So this is a very old tactic which US is now accusing others of question is that on what basis is the United States accusing the Chinese of doing what it has always been doing. Recently a particular bad example which comes to mind is the fact there is a location app which is now which has become public that's been hacked by it's basically such that it can hack your location data and millions of this phone location data is being made available to the US military this by the person or the company which developed the app the company company or the app is one of them is called anomaly six anomaly itself raises suspicions but these are not anomalies these are essentially basic what shall we say objectives of the company that it will get this data personal data and sell it to data brokers in the market or give it to the US military under the contract with the US military. So all of these are public this happened only about I think a week back with this information became public. So when you are accusing others of doing what you are doing there is obviously a bad faith in all of this but I think the basic issue is to not to look at it that is this the reason they are doing it the reason why they are doing it it's a part of that continuing trade and tech war against the Chinese companies and that's the entire scenario is as it is playing out it started with Huawei and now it has gone to Chinese apps and with the network clean network initiative program it is actually supposed to include all Chinese equipment including smartphones as well as any telecommunication equipment and any country which links to the United States in some form or the other they will be also asked to follow this policies the five eyes were the first who are pressurized there are another 14 NATO countries who also do intelligence sharing with the United States they are going to be asked to fall in line so you are going to see US using its muscle particularly its military alliance muscle to make its partners fall in line and then hope that that will give it keep its market intact which is slowly being eaten up by Chinese companies so thank you for me for talking to us on this issue and that's all the time we have keep watching this


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