Welcome to episode 31 of the 1878 FM podcast. We are joined by Andy Busch today who's being A wall for the lap but not not necessarily a wall buddies being a wall Yeah, been missing for the last couple of weeks with other duties, but am I Okay, so we could with those to be a childcare package. Yeah What about that? Yeah, maybe the thing is the thing is so that that when I'm getting on the floor, right? I have applied for official leave of absence and the meaning of a wall is absent without leave Yes, therefore mean I don't think you fully accounted for yourself. All right, so there's some paperwork is there Dave I should have filled in. It's that what you're saying. Well, it's online now. It's all modern. You can do it online It's just you go to you go to Ned Imagine imagine flash leave forward slash bush forward slash why Yeah Ned's HR portal Listen in other news out bush aside from the leave issue I have something else to to pick bones with you because It seems that you're you're trying to infiltrate my pastimes and maybe become me Yeah, do I try dog in this? Great scene down there. So, you know, I've been doing some viti-esque long long distance What's this all about? Where did it come from? Why and how and when I think it's you Dave? You're the audience. How did I join this? It is I got a paddle board. We're gonna transport a pasty across a riverway Next week. I always cycle for work. So it's always quite functional But we've always had this idea of wouldn't be great because obviously from you know Devon originally goes from One coast to Devon to the other. So me and two friends did it at the weekend So we did Barnstable to Oak Hampton stayed the night in an absolutely terrifying travel lodge the big ones and then straight out the deliverance and then and then we did Oak Hampton to Plymouth. So it's like a hundred miles over two days And I wore padded shorts for the first time Dave when you do your cycling Jeff padded shorts. Yes, I do Yeah, yeah, very much a necessity. Yeah, I would say the nether regions from chafing and such My ones have got braced the thing I wasn't expected about them expecting about the whole trip was that the padded shorts had like braces So it's like a pair of shorts Yeah, they're a little bit like sort of elasticated laid-a-hose and our name. It's a bit like said Fred's I won't be honest with you. They make it difficult. They make it difficult if you need to go for an impromptu You know trip to the bush bush, you know, you know to relieve yourself Then it's difficult because you have to kind of take it all off, don't you? Yeah Well, this is it when I was getting changed. I felt like I looked a bit like do you remember back in the in the early 90s There was a chat room advert, which was Great, I'm a convert now it's Recreational cycling is great And I have got said padded shorts by the way But I just want to ask a question just came to him. Have you ever thought I mean, maybe they're not not you Andy because you're new to the padded shorts scene But maybe for Dave have you ever done that thing where you've got to you know your last pair of Pants say and they are those padded shorts and you've had to wear them for non cycling No, you see because so I haven't got so maybe there's a bit of a mix and I haven't got padded shorts Which you're like under bar I've just got the all-in-one cycling full wanker gear, you know Oh, wow, I didn't realize. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Is that not what you meant? No, I've just got a pair of shorts I've got braces on them. Oh, right. Well, that's different. Well, they they sound more kind of recreational. Yeah Yeah, I need to up me gain get some pro ones. I think they they just yeah, I've got I've got I've got just like just Just keep talking for a minute. I'll go and show you mine. Okay From the dog and I've got like Lycra like Lycra underway, but with the padded binning why for cycling Once Dave's I'll get I'll get mine as well. You boys It has happened that I have got down to You've opened the drawing gun All that's available. Oh, there is is the padded shorts. You've done the I have done ever wore the padded shorts for toffee TV And I have come in the studio with them very comfortable. Yeah, very comfortable. I'll be honest No, you see, can I just yeah, I don't know if anyone I mean, maybe we need these two for this But you notice there's an increase in advertisements for like Basically nappies for human for men and women. Yeah, but you must have noticed I'll be honest Dave Dave Andy, I just have you noticed an increase in on TV for Underwear for that, you know that might get you out of a spot of trouble You mean first for stuff that catches leaks and what yeah, yeah, yeah Well, so so Targeted advertising president. Well. Yeah, I've not seen Well, you watch it all on the dodgy pelvis do your pelvic floor. I'm just saying that's what it's like wear them You get these you get that like a padded bit.  No, I've seen me missing feels remiss It's goes up. She's goes out cycling stuff. She's got padded. I've seen them and I take the piss out of it as well I see them, but I've not you need them. Oh, no, I'm sure we got okay visually. Wow. What? They look they go over the shoulders. Yeah, I mean they do they do look a bit rocky her a picture Do I haven't listened to any to any Frankie goes to Hollywood I just like to say I don't ever wish to be in in the London And see they've got like a gel packet Now that they're the summer version I knew I knew Dave for that different one These are the winter They they kind of zip up around your ankles, but the same kind of concept much as they go over the shoulders, right? Could you could you go to the game and not have to get up and go for a pee and miss a bit of the match? You just go in there and it'll sort of more out there for I Mean you could do I suppose but I mean only in the same way that you could piss yourself in any kind of garment I mean, well, here's my ones I'm gone. I'm gone. I'm gone. Lift them up a little bit higher, Andy. Lift them up a little bit higher Hang on, and you're having a go at me? No, I'm gone. They are not cycling specific They are recreational leisure underwear They are, yeah, they're from the same site where like ladies or gentlemen may get like naces, outfits and stuff That's definitely under the right Fred section There's a shop down the road from where I work in Soho called Prowler It's something that you might get in there. I think there you go But you know what if it did the job? Oh, it did if I didn't have them like Dave was saying they're a necessity Yeah, I realized on that trip if you didn't have had a choice. I was a bit of a luxury Gooch It is good to get into all that stuff It makes you, you know, you go and buy all that. I've got loads of it for running and cycling and stuff You can go off the edge though with Yeah, some people could spend some crazy money Well, you could go off the edge, yeah, if you're riding where you are Brandy's there, look like now when you get see toddlers and the strapped the doorways and the jam of your pants That's exactly what they are Get them on the doorway, off you go, let them banter away 1970s child bouncer, thank you for that There you go, but it done the job, Andy And if it does the job, that's all that matters and it's interesting to get an insight into what what Dave's wearing Money's he's got those maps on Literally as soon as this finishes today because I'm technically on annual leave today, but I I wanted to obviously He didn't I'm I'm actually going to put this Club run as soon as we finish and get out on my bike this afternoon Really? Well, what I like about your kit, Dave is it appears that you can take it off And put it back on again quite quickly if you need to get changed in the hurry You know, it's the game fair play it's fair play. Um, let's just get this out the way it's all going to kits players I think we could do the whole episode without even mentioning it I've not seen it. I I I didn't get involved with it because I was cycling during the whole time it was on I just I got updates to different levels of swearing from my dad and my brother on our WhatsApp group. So I'm completely ignorant of it. I can I get a sense of how it went And it from what I gather it reminded me of the Brentford game last season where it was like Here's a chance for us to slightly push clear and it just everything went wrong. Do you know me? At least we had an excuse in the Brentford game that a they were very good and big We had a month's sense of where it's full them at the weekend for 60 minutes didn't really look interested They look like they wanted to be anywhere but Goddison Park And it was almost like when they went to one up it was almost like These don't really look so we may as well just enjoy having a little kick about and it could have ended up Five one at the end. Well Dave. I mean, I yeah, I I thought it was a real I don't know. I I I felt it was a real turning point for the worst for us in so much is Um, it was a game. We absolutely had to win. Yeah, when you look at the remaining fixtures It was the one that we absolutely had to get three points from Um, and the annoying thing is that had we played anywhere near the way that we played against Arsenal, for example We'd have walked that game. Absolutely. You know, and so once again like a broken record It goes down to commitment And levels of commitment or lack of in in this instance And it was the lack of commitment and the lack of effort that made it a very very easy saturday for fullum Who as you say didn't really look asked. They're not the best team in the world. They were missing mitrovich, you know, I mean We should have we should have absolutely guaranteed it and I did why don't you change stuff around what that's what I don't get I mean mo pay He's playing 4-4-2, but mo pay anyway is just useless. Yeah, it's a very true I mean just useless um, and um No, I just found it depressing because that was that was the opportunity to to get a vital three points on the board And now when you look at the remaining fixtures, they're a lot tougher than that Yeah, that's annoying because we have on those weekends where every all the other results were pretty We're all right This could have been daylight a little bit It's a difficult situation because so many teams are are in the mire that you know, you're never gonna get a weekend when it's perfect Yeah, no for us, but um There's a favor I cite everything as well So it could have been a real daylight Thing and we've just kept ourselves as you were pretty much Is it fair to say it's it's three from four? No, no two from five. Do you think five? No three from five, obviously Do you think salt? I think three from five, isn't it and leads obviously 11 goals conceded in two home games and still got a better goal difference than us No, I don't Yes, what does that tell you though, but the art the art had in this and and um And unless they're supposed to the one because they've played city and if under new management and Um, we'll have to wait and see but we've got to play them lester after play leads as well So they very much got there got it in their own hands But then so we because we're not in the bottom three. So it's a case of um It's somehow where we could pull off back-to-back results start with sardine going into the new castle game And that's what it take it would take back-to-back wins. I think to get us out of this But it's not listen. It's not over. It's not over, but he's saying boomer for safe then I think boomer for safe. Yeah, I think they're well safe. I think they are now I think only because what are the on 33? I think another win for them, Dave and that's it. So I think they've effectively got like half a dozen games Just a win one. Yeah, and I think and I'm sure they've got far as the home They're great form and the score and goals Something we don't feel about it. You know, like last season it was this kind of out of the blue Cataclysm and suddenly it all got really serious. Oh my god. I can't believe it I just got got kind of different feeling towards everyone. We've had the warning And I feel like it's all self-inflicted. We've you know, they've screwed around with the whole striking situation Yeah, we've only got ourselves to blame this time and You know and some of this stuff about I think I saw peds talking about it on twitter Just like making it like the fans on the fans again to try and get herself for the games and stuff like that It's like I don't feel like anyone can go through that again. Really. I don't know if it's there I think I'm in the I'm in the thing of It's not that I've like Gave up on them not bothered. I just haven't got the same I was terrified last year and this year I'm almost just like if it happens it happens. I think like you've just said Andy We had the warning I said yesterday on our final words show Last season and it feels about 15 years ago now, doesn't it when Rafa Benitez was appointed? But that was only last season, believe it or not, which is incredible All the hassle that went on around Christmas the dark beer home and all the brands being sacked and We sacked the manager and the transfer you know the transfer window was going on Lampard coming the last hours of in we somehow survived And we went and done the exact same thing again this this January the same thing loads of Fraur around the board they can't come back ever again The manager gets sacked we bring another one in late. We don't bring any plays and I'm aware we are and It's no surprise You can you can look at evidence team and say it's it's decent. It's awful.  It's april Well, that's why and that's the way we are That's why I though I I don't think we're a good team or Anywhere near being a good team because I think it's a collective thing Your score goals as a team and yes, you do need that one personal finish the goals off for you But you need you need you need you need collective responsibility. We don't create chances. We don't score chances How many sitters though we missed in key moment That's part of isn't it it's like it's dead easy to say well We missed the sitter but that's part of our problem And I think I think a lot of us and I think this is the people say it's it's apathy I just think a lot of us deep down know that we probably deserve to go down because we're so bad And and and listen as much as we all don't want to I think I think deep down. We all know we are we're not a good side And I think once once you understand that and you realize because there's been loads of occasions where you're like We're unlucky or we've had bad rest decisions or you lose Like I mean, you know when you think of last season there were everything played against us, you know losing a player Out injured all season another player Wasn't allowed to play and and that's all being sorted out now You know Rich arson went to two two international competitions in one summer There was so much somebody fell out with our creative left back and wasn't playing all these things all those refereeing decisions And and there was a case of like if I like but this year was like we're rubbish We're just rubbish and I think everybody just feels like that. I think everyone's like if we go down we deserve to go down so I think the fact that you know We're even saying about the fact that it's a carbon copy of last year too many to you know To a greater extent just proves how we do deserve to go You know because as you say you can be unlucky in certain things once and but when you're seeing it all unfold again I mean I I still it baffles me the fact that you know after that crystal palace escape and we all just kind of thought Thank God for that. You know, we're safe and this will never happen again Yeah, and at least we now know that we start next season with a chance and we'll be fine and you know It will all be all be okay And here we are again in a worse situation and um, and yeah, we have every right to go down I think and if we stay up Dave I think a lot of us feel like we'll have to do all this again next season as well Well because we'll probably get hit by some yeah So I mean so that's the sort of again. That's the people are literally running out of energy and all I want the pain to be over. Don't you guys just wanted to I just want to know now. I just want the pain to be over. Let's just I don't know It's not letting go down. Just get yourself sorted out. Do you I mean?  It's a debt implications as well You know, it's not it's not just It's not just going down and it's not just the The lack of the premier league income which we would suffer from and therefore losing, you know our best players You know, whoever they are, you know on the highest money Um, but it's also the fact that then debts need to be repaid You know, which there's all sorts of other financial implications for us in particular Not just for a another premier league club. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, it doesn't really bear thinking about right now and that's why we need to move swiftly But that's but that's why that's why I'm so pissed off about Saturday because it was so important It's so important and and it was so doable and they just Didn't do enough or nowhere near enough and that could be Ultimately at the end of the season that three points could be the difference Would you know what the Everton way though sometimes is to screw up the easy route and then do it the hard way? So, yeah, maybe there's another twist in this little Shit tail that we're all on at the moment And it's going to be and they'll end up beating someone that we didn't have them down when you're looking at those remaining fixtures Or maybe, you know there for the grace of gods At the moment there are teams that just worse even though we're terrible There are teams that just happen to be worse than this at the moment And maybe that that will kind of we'll eke out a bit like that. I don't know That'll be the reason they stay up. They'll be because there's teams worse. It won't be But if everton are gonna go I hope they go in the next three weeks Because I just I can't be going to that bleeding ball with game on a knife edge It's just I wonder how how if it is doomsday scenario Like how many weeks ahead would we would you know? Do you know what I mean before the end of the season? Do you know what I mean? Oh god? It's going to get to why though, isn't it? You know one way or another? Yeah It's all so close and nobody's nobody's you know, I mean one other question though, right? Like if goodison was like goodison was in the palace game What's it gonna be like if we go down and what what will goodison part? I think it'll be It's gonna be nasty. I think like it's gonna be horrible. Yeah, it's gonna be forever's there and and Like you dread to think of it. It's why I couldn't believe there was no response to going through one down at the weekend From out of the manatee or the players. There was nothing. There was just like it was a game in May where it was 10 to 11 10th this is 11th place not to play for Just get it done. We all want to go on holiday. That's what it looked like from everything Did look like and then to be fair It just looked like a game that didn't mean a thing and it was uh That worried me more than any of the other defeats certainly undecided I was just looking thinking there's nothing in me. There's just nothing no leader There's nothing up the top end of the pitch the manager looks lost on the line as if he was shocked but His team selects and it's two o'clock should have told him what to expect Isn't it weird seeing a marco silver comeback that you know in play managers come back that we've chewed up and spat out It's weird, isn't it? Like he's got them playing nice football. What was it about us that? Men eat couldn't work at Everton. Do you I mean it's a question that no one can answer It's probably that's probably what it is pressure, isn't it? They don't have pressure They just they just don't have anything on them. I've been there. I've been to Daxa this before being to that ground probably There's much as I've been anywhere or nah nah to Craven cottage. I've been there so many times And it's win lose or draw. They're always the fans are just the same They just clap and like they score it.  I love a white shot. Is it love a white shot? Is it night night air force ones and white socks?   It was it was and they probably did He did.  Lessened your love of football ever so I hate football.  I don't watch any football I don't watch any football I just Andy I can't I don't watch the premier league. It's terrible. I watch a lot of MLS. I watch American Major League Soccer. I watch that because it's fun MLS is And I don't mind watching some bundles league of stuff, but at the premier league I cannot I've kind of to say that you know what I watch Wrexham against Notts County last Monday. I watched that. Yeah, there's a great game Exactly and that made me realize how much I hate the premier league But I still love football because it was entertaining. It was end to end. It was honest And it it is yeah, Evan. I'm just Evan. I'm just The just vampires, Andy. Yeah energy vampires energy vampires. Yeah or a horrible club But you know 31 wins in the championship next season Yeah, that's right That's the spirit best that you've got him. You've got to go to the positives, haven't you? um On Twitter Nick who is at unbelievable nick play you got tickets on the shelf. He's got fit listening. He's confident on big Says who does the best impressions out of you for? I'm gonna I'm gonna put it to you pet to be honest because because you're mad enough to do them I don't know the capability of bushing vitty in terms of impressionist. It's very limited. I'd suggest but I only speaking for myself Bush, I reckon bush has got a couple up his sleeve to be fair. I think he's got a couple But it's John. It's John Bishop was a winner.  So you can't uh, yeah, the times have changed Times have changed Is my our producer uh, Nick there's a brilliant um Nelson Mandela. It's never gonna be the light of day because you can't do that You couldn't do it. Do you know what I mean? He couldn't do it. Why is it just because he's not current anymore? I don't know what it is There's Nelson Mandela being cancelled. You've just got to know what the producer might be if he doesn't I think that's what that was more Andy's that was more Andy's thing with it Um unbelievable. Nick also says what's the greatest album of all time in your view? Oh Anyone want to think of that? It is isn't it? I mean Yeah, it is there is no answer to that question. Yeah What about what's your favorite album and what about that one? It's that easier to say it might be the greatest but one that You know, you you think that's a belt of this Anything no As action park by shellac there you go. Okay action park by shellac. Okay. Best album of all time. Okay The best album of all time Of all time He's dropped that in Action park the name of the album At action park is the name of the album and the band is called shellac. I thought she like was something that ladies Yeah, yeah, all the nails. Is it? Yeah, we're we're it's an american punk band. Where are they from? Uh, I don't know the America north america. Yeah north north america. Thanks for north america. Okay Okay, that's indeed albini. Have you heard of steve albini's like a famous producer who produced uh nirvana's uh in utero album or that kind of stuff It's uh, it's his band. They're good. They're still playing they're still going now. They're really good I'll be honest, Andy, this sounds shite I mean, it's no Eurovision, but I like the nails Professor poopy pants So, I guess we kind of we've kind of discussed this real name. Is it no obviously it's not a professor Yeah, we might be a professor. You just don't know His name is daniel poopy pants It says tips and tricks to help forget about evidence for dick. I mean, I mean andy's took up cycling Yeah, have you got any has anyone got any brought any new hobbies in the last three? Have you recently thought Need to take sure horizon forbidden west. Yeah, that's I mean that is mine PS5 PS5 quite helps me forget. Does it count as a hobby? Yes. Yeah, but what is it, Dave? It's not making a claim Oh back down barry.  Yeah, it does because sometimes when I play I wear my padded shirt Okay I know in oakhampton in devon Someone doing something that could be a new hobby We we cycled past this lad who was about 12 years old and he was hanging off a bridge with a bit of rope And a magnet the size of a bath plug. I thought he was hanging off the bridge with a bit of rope He was kind of hanging off that but he was he was fishing with a magnet and apparently magnet fishing is a big thing There's youtube channels dedicated to it and these people are pulling amazing things out of britain's canals and all that Not fish, obviously Not fish, but no, we never know There's a birmingham we've consumed in our rivers, I guess but come on. There's a group of women in birmingham that do it They're called peaky dippers. Oh, they sound like tits Fair play to me. I'm gonna get fagal sharky involved in this. Why why are you getting fagal? See this is a man who knows nothing in the news fagal sharky fagal sharky of a girl He's the most the number one number one spokesman for britain's waterways Yeah, I was watching something the other day and I saw this interview Taking place on a riverbank and I was thinking that looks like fagal sharky But he can't be fagal sharky obviously from a good heart and that's exactly if he if he hairdo The hairdo was terrible a cadence. Yeah, he's the britain's number one Uh, water safety. Yeah, yeah, I love to love to get involved. He was on a program the other week on bc Say it like a good. What would it be a good? This day is hard Yeah, especially if you haven't got a magnet If you haven't got a magnet, I just think if he'd have gone magnet fishing in the uh, the canaling Then where was it where was it netherton where bill can like time as far you would have found that wouldn't you? No, it's made of wood It's it wasn't It's metal It's metal Is it it wasn't wood. Yes. What don't metal say bill came out of face is not like not a term right there Oh You wouldn't have found him in a canal, would you? Yeah Right, okay So magnet fishing Magnificent with That'd be great. I love that with his padded pants on That is an option. Sign me up.  He misses. Where is it? Where is it? Yeah, you can't see it entirely for girls. Yeah, I'm not sure you can say that anymore Can you not I don't think so you can't specify socks For people is he being socks us there? No, he's been well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, maybe socks is I don't know who's having to go to socks or genders, but I don't okay I would just assume that they were predominantly Worn by girls. Why don't they wear a face because with high heels and stuff That's what I mean. I think that's how they started off again. I don't think you can move things can move Would you ever go from you know what you want to wear trainers in the summer you got better shorts off them Well, you don't you just basically don't Easy for you easy easy for you to say Well, I guess you don't see the rest of the fabric.  You were all I'm going. Let me finish what you would see is Ned's ankle And it would look like he's only where he's got bare feet in his in the wrong end of the stick here Oh, yes. Oh, I thought you meant the socks had individual bits in That's him.  Yeah, but that so they're called toe socks That makes me think that they've got individual You said it's so fast. I was thinking if she ain't toe socks So I think he would have been a better striker than what we've got now And well, I might have this wrong, but I'm thinking the what you see the women has gone quiet Like he knows Andy. No, Andy's gone. Oh, no, Dave's gone. Oh, where's Dave gone? Andy's gone Right, okay, that's what I said, right I'm moving on. I'm not gonna wear them ones that I think they ask you It's uh, you're very sure what you should have them sent a picture so we could them know Please look look look. Oh, yeah That's what he's talking about. No, because they like train the socks Dave So what I'm thinking of hold that up, Dave So like right so the bit now the bit in between your hands on the It be gone Oh, right. Well, you mean like like fingerless or no, no, no, so I don't know what's going on I don't know what's going on. Yeah, hold the sock up Dave Yeah, right. So you've got the heel bit. Yeah, and you've got the toe bit But the top bit of the sock in between there's nothing there So it goes on your heel covers all the sole of your foot and over your socks Over your toes over your toes. I mean not over your socks over your toes So like the top bit is skin So if anyone's looking at you, you would just think you didn't have any any socks on so these these are these are essentially for high heelists Yes, but I'm guessing you can wear them with trainers as well. My missus wears them with their trainers fair play But I'm saying would we No, no, there's the answer. It was a long discussion. It's not so papalaki. I'm not convinced that's his name real name But it might be Says uh, I mean I I can't answer this because I don't watch succession But who in succession do you relate to most on why? Kendall shiv roman greg logan or tom now. I know you've watched this show Out of those names logan logan. Oh hundred percent. I'm logan. You're logan. I'm having logan as andy or david watch succession Yeah, I'm just about yeah series. Okay. Is that any of those cat which is those characters? Kendall shiv roman greg logan or tom Do you relate to the most? You see I'm somewhere between greg and roman. I think which I think it's probably your gromen.  Well, that's fleshly Do whatever you do And then rare and then his dad was sitting opposite to him and went It's good stuff. Okay series. Oh, yeah, it's brilliant series I think I'll probably be greg greg. Okay. Okay. Okay, so be tom Okay, I don't know. Oh, yeah, it would definitely be time. I don't know any of these but let's do it Anthony says you have to be stuck in a lift with someone for 12 hours. Okay Hmm Or do a weekend in real with someone or have a week in benedome with someone so so it's again It's like one of the one of the three Right, no listen week in benedome. Would I long wouldn't you?  So there's jemma collins Jesus is she? Yeah, there's a nadine doris Yeah, and there's maranda Oh god So feel like this could be quite a bad quagmire All right, so who's who haven't sure to need all right. Let's go with you first. Who are you going in the lift with for 12 hours? um What was the other two jemma colton? The dean oh, okay Weekend in real win real with someone and the week in benedome with So who are you in the lift with? Maranda really? Yeah. Wow weekend in real Nadine doris just so I can so I can so she has to be in real Okay, and the gc in benedome. Yeah, we'd have a laugh. Okay. Yeah, fine. Okay Uh andy, let's go to you Uh lift jemma collins. Okay. What was the other one real real weekend in real? real nadine and then The benedome with uh, maranda maranda. Yeah, why did she get a bad press maranda? I'd be in benedome with maranda for a week.  Have I got the right maranda maranda or the telly maranda maranda the funny one that says plunge She'd have a laugh with her in benedome for a week. Does he mean maranda?  Um, I'd go lift with doris because it'd be the shortest amount of time. I thought yeah You could run away from it in other places It's shall we get it real real real with maranda And and I'd probably go for for benedome with the gc. Okay sharp although although, you know genuinely hate all of them root canal surgery would be preferable to You know two out of three definitely. Yeah, okay I won't I won't put you on the spot for the other one net once a week with mary nadine marino marino Yosha marino someone's just by the way just want to relate to your whatsapp group. Someone called peter's just sent us a picture of The success What is it and it's andy's company car. Oh, andy's company cat tremendous That is that is tremendous. That is tremendous. That's it. There you go. That is how andy busch arrives Have you put on the screen Ned? Back when I started in commercial radio, we used to have black thunders. Do you remember then which were like Like commercial radio station vehicles with You know like the branding of the radio station on the side That the street team would go out I was gonna say something but I don't think legally. No, don't say a word Gray leads says it why are the higher eclipse which is several thousand years old that clearly show like bulbs batteries and flying craft Do we believe in time travel? No, because I don't believe in time different time. It's a good one. Do you believe in travel? I do believe in travel. Yeah, I just don't believe in time. Okay, but that is weird. Isn't it some of these higher eclipse in like in Egypt and stuff? I think I might have said this before We went a few years ago. There was the uh treatment Carmen exhibition in The millennium I wrote In the millennium dome Yeah, you know one thingy And There was loads of amazing stuff, but they had the like the stupid system that they used in Egypt Which was better from 2000.  It was Yeah, yeah, but it was 2000 It was 2000 years old or something and it was better than some of the stuff We have now Well, that's because they were ahead of their time weren't they the Egyptians But why would you head what lightbulbs batteries and flying aircraft ahead of the time? Have we got an answer? No, no And these lost a little bit and these I keep dropping out. I keep losing you. I do apologize. The thing is the funny thing is that you keep you keep going at a Potentially comedic moment. Yeah, we got on to the Egyptian sewage system Yeah The two times the two times I've dropped out. I've come back in bed talking about nappies and then after that I've come back in again. You talk about like Egyptian sewage system. Right. What is going on? Right, here's the question Andy. Can you hear me? I've got you now. Yeah What why are the higher eclipse which is several thousand years old and clearly show lightbulbs batteries and flying craft So where the Egyptians some kind of amazing um People time travelers or could they see into the future that far or you know what discuss Well, I mean, I've sat up and watched quite a few of those programs about like ancient civilizations having incredible kind of foresight and you know, where they were they visited by uh, you know other From people from other planets before, you know thousands of thousands of years ago Who knows And it would be it would be folly for us to say that we're the only we're the only ones on this block Do you know what I mean? Yeah, maybe there's more to it. Maybe Everton will stay up and other teams will be worse than us Maybe ancient civilizations were visited by aliens before the advent of humanity. Who knows? Maybe they just they were just cleverer people Because they didn't have all the distractions of I've ever shied that we have Do you know what I mean? They were just like yeah, yeah instead of getting on the ipad and playing angry birds I'm going to figure out how to do a sewage system Yeah, yeah Do you have flying cars? Flying craps Well, those are bollocks. No, that's in the heart of it Gray lead gray lead you're a tit I mean He said of our customer services. Yeah, brilliant again Our fan engagement officer Tremendous happy, uh Feel free to call me feel contact Contact My name Because they didn't have these time stealers, right, which is what phones are time stealers, aren't they? They didn't have them. So they things are like flying craps. You could imagine couldn't you we all did as kids Yeah, thoughts are all in the future. You'll be able to like whatever flammat and being able to Now we have got loads of stuff that we wouldn't we've got loads of stuff now That we wouldn't have imagined as kids We wouldn't imagine the mobile phone could do no anything flying you would I always as a kid I'm asking if you could like fly around on like because I'm kind of playing Joel we all play jetpack I think we were we were sold quite a lot of yeah, we were sold it. We're bummed stare by um tomorrow's world though They did make it look like we'd be going to work in a rocket pack and the robots would be helping you around the house Whereas robots can't even climb a flight of stairs. Do you know what I mean? So They can now they can block lead and lap dance and everything now Wd 40 down the front of its bills Um a pinging hated. Yeah, there you go So there's a huge score more goals for everton if they started every game for the season one paul mullen to neil mow I'm going paul mullen mullen all day long all day and every day Sunday do it Maybe chat gpt. Yeah, we'll get more than one with mobile. Yeah Um Gareth you says did you guys have a nickname at school or did any of your classmates have any funny ones? My favorite is a bob mortimer story where a guy from the school Was called the sniper's dream because he had a massive head My favorite my favorite nickname in the world of sport Is uh the footballer fits hall. Yeah, he was nicknamed one size one size. Yeah, I think he's brilliant Paul or former everton player neil pointing whose nickname was dissey.  Yeah, there's that many nicknames I've a lot of counselling because It's helped me forget most of them and you can't say them. Yeah. Yeah Mmm I'm nicknamed reborn. Yeah, big ears Cassie, that was it. You know, I used to go to school. This is honestly true.  Dick and hares Dicken d-i-c-k-e-n Hares. Yeah, I think that says more about the school you went to Honestly, he's a teacher now. His name is dick and hares program on bbsd and adaptation that they have You see I I think I think you have to look at the parents for stuff like that. Yeah, and I think that you know That's tantamount to child abuse It is it's pretty hardcore.  I'm gone. I'm gone. What have you missed it? I've missed it I asked for a nickname. Yeah, that was his real name and Andy's real name a real net a kid a real human being was called Dicken dicken dicken hares. Dick and hares.  You can't imagine him now trying to book a restaurant or something like that. Do you know what I mean?    I was in the petrol station I just filled the car with petrol and I bought a half price easter egg for me That's not on that's not how it is. That's not how it is. Like you said earlier on day That's not how it works an orange twirl. Yes. Yes price three pounds only tremendous value for me Not for the kids not for anybody else for me. It should just be for you. Andy. Andy. I know you've got it Andy, I know you've got to go but last thing last thing very quickly, right?  Is there anything go on anything?  You can take that back home and sit in the lounge or sit in the car and have it In the kitchen with a cup of tea ready after the old uh get the kit on from earlier on in the podcast He's gonna go for his ride on his with his padded pants come back and consume his orange swill Always always use protection Go on mr. Bush, we will relieve you of your duties. See you next week I mean I'm fascinated by this go on so I what what are you getting in this Easter egg if that Easter egg cost six pound in the first place What are you getting in that Easter egg orange swill? Is it is it's is it's two bars with it two bars? I'd presume so it's a good point you make because because to be honest with you Um, I would have had no idea how much your regular Easter egg costs. Okay prior to this Yeah, so when so when I was queuing up to pay for my petrol and I you know, and I succumbed to a very um Well-worn marketing technique Yeah, the stack things which you might think about buying. Yeah next to the tills. Yeah And I was there and there's this whole whole stack of orange twirl Easter eggs and I like an orange twirl And I thought half price, you know, why not? And so I did but um, but then when she said it was three pounds and it didn't it did make me think Christ are these normally six pounds each which seems like quite a lot to me I think those they have gone off Easter eggs like no, I'm just I was just I was just wondering six I think you've been suckered in there, Dave I think you've done that you have done that thing in a petrol station Where you've got limited time to make your mind up because you Can't buy yeah, and they've actually not your nail mouth by very much. It's not actually I don't actually believe that was half price I don't believe that I think they've just suckered you know Dave we got a question from Carla and she did ask the other we put weed If the show had finished and I forgot to ask you last week so I'm gonna ask you right now about it There's a picture of you you might have told us this before but obviously everyone's forgot it So it was great. Obviously memorable the way you delivered it last time um There's a picture of you with 50 cent And I think you might have an evidence sheet on in it or whatever. So yes, can you explain for Carla and Rest the people listening and us in the studio How that came about and uh, you know the little backstory to that please Yes loosely, um, we were in new york and we did our breakfast show from new york for a week And in doing so we actually went out and we did some interviews Um, two of which were with puff daddy and with 50 cent and when we went to go and see them Clang, yeah, that's a go-clang not a go-clang double clang Um, and when we went to go and see them, uh for reasons which are still not fully clear I took an evan shirt and chris morse took a lead shirt And we have pictures of ourselves with those two and that's how it came about Yeah, there's nothing actually even any any more clever really than that. Okay. Just showbiz. Well, that's all right, isn't it because I think the thing about it is was there any Was there anybody who?  Did you say this is evident or or whatever or? I think we might we may have briefly discussed it, but he he he wasn't fully aware of our back for anything like that at the time Okay Even even he didn't know our best side then no We wouldn't but I guarantee you he would have you know, we wouldn't have messed up But nobody's much of the abdomen in the last seven years And I just wanted to bring your attention to this one because I did see this and think of you and it terrified me. I'll be honest Um Terrified girl clings to paddleboard a drift in the Atlantic for 22 hours Until a medical rescue a girl swept out far to see on a paddleboard by a free wind I'm a strand of the loan for 22 hours Erica vincent was who 17 was found the drift 28 miles out in the Atlantic ocean last week after clinging on to a boat for dear life Scares isn't it? You know, you gotta be careful with currents and stuff and I watch these programs all the time. I hate them Oh I watch all these kind of saving lives at sea programs as well when we have all these sort of real life things I love all that But no, you've got to be careful You've got to be careful of where you go and winds and stuff like that And in fact, I'm not even going on the river by me at the moment Not that I'm worried about getting swept out to sea but you're running too fast And you're advised not to do it because you won't have full control over the board safety first See that's that's it. That's responsible. Would you ever wear your padded thing on your paddleboard?  Let's leave it there. Dave is going to go and don his His gear and his padded shorts now and go off on a lovely bike ride there They are again just for your viewers if you're listening to this then david's holding up his padded pants I think it's warm enough yet for the for the short version.  That's not bad. What is it? It's warmer than it is here. Yeah, so you still you still will require the longer the longer pants. I imagine right now Dave pleasure as always. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Dave and take care. Have a good week And we will see you next week mate. Speak to you soon. Hopefully with better news Thank god, please please please take it easy. We'll see you all later. Bye


Gold contract down $3, trading at $19.43, you get Silver off $0.33, $0.23 to $0.68, LightSuite crewed off $0.62, $70.39, notes and bonds, 10-year note, down $7.6, $1.1420, year off $9.00 at $130.04 and $1.00, $1.00 out here up $107.00, trading $101.00, $9.47, you're at $108.00, yen at $129.00, the British pound at $123.00, bottom line folks, you hit your ABC structures, gave it up in spades, get out of the way man, let's, next week. So we take a look at the spy, what we have with the spy out here is this, and this just shows you, these ABCs man, they just like to hit when they hit, it blows my mind that this one hit, particularly because of the smonning folks, okay? We take a look at the S&P, you can see the S&P did not make it to its swing point, we got up to a price point of $408, it only had volume of $62 million, you're going into $122 million and you gave it up on price. The NDX100, what that did, and this was really cool when you talk about number one, a price projection, number two, a give up on price and volume. So your price projection was $298.24, a to b equals c to d, we did it, you had volume of $50 million, that had taken it over the swing point of that $286.87, and guess what? You closed that $296.26 with $50 million versus $80 million, that's the failure on price and volume, that says we'll go right back down the other side. I know it's subtle folks, but the bottom line is that that's how this works man, I suspect what we're going to see, and I suspect we saw this a little bit in the oil today. So what you had, I'm sure oil trade is just because of Chevron, Exxon, they've been performing beyond belief, bottom line, oil gave it up in spades, you have a bearish engulfing here, that's saying oil is going right back down to the other side, meaning you're going down into the 70 doll level, and right now you're at 79.38, and I suspect, and the doll has not been able to get a bounce folks, but as I said many times, nothing goes all the way up and nothing goes all the way down fast, bottom line, this doll's going to have a bounce, the market's going to get coneptions, have a great weekend, safe weekend, make sure you get your seatbelt on for next week, and be ready to rumble, have a great weekend, safe weekend man, thanks man, yeah look at him folks.


Welcome back to the Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Let's now get to our first major conversation with a senior advocate of Nigeria, Mr Paul Ananambar. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Good morning. So we're basically talking this morning about the Chief Justice of Nigeria who has summoned seven judges over conflicting judgments that you know they've given in several cases. I want to first get your initial reaction to this. How much of a national embarrassment to the Nigerian judiciary would you say this is? As the CGN, Tanku Muhammad and NBA president Ulu Midyakwata has described it. Well we cannot measure the quantum of embarrassment. I do not know whether the judges know the level of beyond embarrassment harm done to the judiciary and to legal practice. Let me summarize it by telling you uh the way I felt when I saw and the social media. You know this picture that went viral. A judge was painted to be hawking injunction and politicians and litigants were going to buy their injunction and walking away. And it's a cartoon? That cartoon. That depicts what it is. So it means that justice or injunctions and judgments and orders is a matter of highest bidder. You go and buy and you go. And you remember that today some elected officers are described as caught elected officers. So it gets to the it gets to that point again you remember June 10 1993. I'm not talking about June 12. I'm talking about June 10 at a day at an hour of the night when costs are normally not sitting. Justice Basi Peme in this country issued an expert order to stop an election and the application of ABN. You remember as a social veteran Nigerians and that order was to stop election few hours away. The electorate body then used to obey that order proceeded and again June 15 to stop announcing the results and all that. And that is the whole problem of June 12. So the judiciary also played a role in that. We are already going towards elections again and we are beginning to see expert orders to remove a chairman of a political party that is a major position political party. Set that political party on fire putting the other party on notice and then hearing to the both parties for the benefit of those who don't understand what expert order means. It is another made by a court here in one party. It is made in very urgent cases and in that type of situation it will be a situation that will be uncontrollably bad if we wait to put the other party on notice. What was the urgency about removing the chairman of a political party? I think that was not enough. Far away judge issues and others don't turn which is the condos.  I want you to help us understand you know what we say it's an embarrassment. What exactly do you mean? Is it that these judges are breaching any excuse me? What it means is that the judiciary the court system is a sacred institution. It does not act in a confused disorderly manner. It doesn't have to cause confusion. Justice is to restore sanity. Now when it gets to a point where litigants now know that oh if you have money you can buy. Now if there are principles by which cases are decided why will a potter court, high court or a court in the reverse state judiciary make another another court in KB makes another other another one in Calabar makes another on in respect of one matter in law. All right Ms Ananamba and they are all expertly orders. Yeah so this is this is where I believe a lot of people are confused. Why would that be? Why is it not an embarrassment? So it means that. Can you hear me Ms Ananamba? It's possible that we start even the 2023 in the presidential elections and 10 courts issue 10 expertly orders. Stopping, stopping, stopping, stopping. That's what embarrassment is. Ms Ananamba can you hear me? We become belittled in the eyes of the world. These things are reported on the internet. They are reported in the news of other countries. Tomorrow you say a Nigerian court is they don't have a court system. The court system is confirmed. Ms Ananamba can you hear me clearly? Yes I can. Okay great. So this is what I would hope that we can you know make clearer here. Do these judges find a way to interpret these cases different after getting paid? Or are there certain details or loopholes in these cases that they can always reach out to to give a totally different you know court or injunction or order? Thank you. I don't know about whether anybody's paid. That's not the issue for me. What is being said is these orders are made expertly. You do not hear the other party. These orders are in respect of political parties. Look at Ananambara states. Now how do you explain who will be on the ballot paper in Abga now? Let me ask you. You wouldn't know. That goes to destabilize INEC with respect to that election and it could lead to restiveness by politicians and even the populace as to our candidates and there could be riots and violence and lives and property will be lost. That is the problem. Now the judiciary the courts are seen as the last hope of the common man. If that last hope is removed what will the common man, what will the Nigerian, what will people do? So what is causing this problem? Would you say that the issue here is the fact that these judges here this matter expertly? Would you say it's corruption like that editorial concern that people you know talked about you know buying judgment? Would you say it's corruption or would you say it's a lack of synergy or communication within these judges? What exactly is the roots challenge here? The issue is every judge has a judicial code. You don't just come up and you are made a judge. You would have been at least 10 years at the back and you will have integrity and you will be trained and enjoy. You will be told these are rules and don'ts of this office. Now the NJC had continuously drawn into judges don't issue expertly orders particularly in political cases and then you go on to issue expertly orders. You issue one another judge counters it, another one counters it. It is the cops are not political parties. Now you are asking what the problem is. The problem is deviation from the code of conduct of judges. Yes, a judge has the right to decide the case one way or the other and will not be punished. Many judges have been removed because of expertly orders in this country in the manner they have been issued. What has been said is politicians will come and litigants will come with various skewed facts.  You look at the facts and then in this type of cases, removal of a chairman of a party, removal of a candidate, put the other party on notice, give an abridged time, hear all the parties and decide the matter one way of that sort is expected of a judge at the level of a high court at least. Okay, well now that seven of them have been summoned, Sandan, about what do you expect from the meeting with the CJN? How effective will this meeting be and is there, you know, expected to be a different way with which these things can be addressed either through the NBA or the NJC? Well, I'm pleased that the CJN took that step. He has acted properly in my view as the head of courts in Nigeria because the box talks with him. He's the chairman of NJC and a major hurdle to cross is being able to get any of these judges to answer because there must be a petition. So we don't know whether there's a petition or not today. If there's no petition, nothing will be done and the Nigerian will be saying these judges, this is the day, no, you can get away with all those kind of things. Now, when the Chief Justice of the Federation has the heads of court in the states where those judges issue those orders, I think it is respectful. I think it is a way to go because you can no longer say that the NJC is not aware. NJC is aware and it is from the part of the world we are from before you take the first son of the community in a distrustful manner. We normally prescribe that you let his kids may know what he has done. I think that is the style of the CJN and that is correct and that is fine. Beyond that, it's expected that the CJN will, as the chairman of NJC, take off this matter at the NJC. It is not only the judges. These cases were filed by legal practitioners and that's where I am also happy with the NBA. The president of NBA has become very vocal. Another part of NBA are vocal about it. We should not also condone our colleagues from NJC who know that these orders are not to go expertly, find them expertly. Who, at the time of arguing applications, even if they were expertly, did not rather teach children of the judges of the NJC. Mr. Anna Namba, I have to reconnect with you there because we're having technical issues with your network. While we're trying to reconnect with Mr Anna Namba, he's really made a lot of valid points and even opened my eyes to how the judicial system should actually work. Some key points that I've taken away from that conversation is to say that the judiciary should bring sanity, not cause chaos. And chaos, the latter, is what we're seeing right now when one judge in one state is saying you're no longer the chairman of this party. And then that that aggrieved party goes ahead to another state and he says, oh you're now chairman. Another court gives another judgment.  Like you mentioned, it seems like a total mess in Anna Namba right now because who really are the candidates when different courts are giving different judgments? You know, you also see the case with the APC. Sometimes these judgments seem very fozzled and people do not understand. Is the court saying A or the court saying B? Some of the other judgments you see in the case in the river state. Well, the court went ahead to say that it is the state government who have the power and the constitutional rights to go ahead and collect taxes from the state. And then you see the FIRS going to file an appeal that will now put a state of execution on that other judgment. So it really seems to be a mess. But good to know we have Mr Anna Namba. Ms Anna Namba, please go ahead. You were talking about the role of these lawyers, you know, in this whole judicial mess. I was just saying that it is not only about the judges, it's also about the lawyers. Many of them are very senior lawyers. The NPA should, I also expect the NPA to, which is already doing, to go on to invite all the lawyers that got involved in these cases to explain their roles so that no more lawyers will not go on this lane of putting down the judiciary, putting down our practice. As a legal practitioner, I have nothing more to do, nothing else to do than this job. So when the society loses confidence in the court system, they don't patronize me, they don't patronize the next lawyer. So what are we going to do? It wouldn't happen in England, it wouldn't happen in the U.S. We must uphold the sanctity of the legal profession. So the ban should get to work, the bench is already getting to work, the invitation of the CJN is to the heads of courts, they are to the chief judges of those states, so that they can harmonize how to deal with this expert orders that have been issued and they know what to go about with the judges that issue the conflicting orders. Great thing you started by talking about the 1993 case. So I was going to ask if this is something that has always been in existence, conflicting court orders and injunctions for sale. I went to 1993 because it was when it came to limelight to use expert orders to truncate democracy. So has this always been in existence with the Nigerian judiciary system? No, not expert orders in particular, but conflicting court judgments here and there, has it always been in existence and is it just simply getting worse now? And why am I asking about the history of this is also because I need to understand from your perspective if we can actually put an end to this. Yes, it happens often but not in a calculated and premeditated manner. Of course, you could have conflicting orders of the court of appeal and sometimes the Supreme Court. The point about this is that this is not the squeezable parts. Whatever human beings have done also have some imperfections. But this set of Hanambrer and in politics is premeditated because there's already a warning. These are courts of caught in jurisdiction based courts, not the higher courts of the court of appeal or the Supreme Court. Now, it has gotten worse because politicians are now exploiting it. And perhaps trying as 2323 is coming about, maybe some may be thinking of using it in a more debased manner. Now, should we watch it and just do nothing? No, that's what I've been saying. How do we stop it? Now, the NJC should restate, aside from dealing with those who have gotten into it now, restate zero tolerance for use of court orders and judgments. Not only ex-party orders, even interlocutor orders, even judgments of tribunals, I mean election tribunals. For those of us who are frequent to election petition tribunals, we cannot explain all that we see. That's some judgment to see. You see judgments that you cannot understand how you can justify it. So let the judges and the lawyers give to the requirement of meeting our justice. That is what will make people not to riot after an election because they know that the courts will correct every wrong. That is the point. And then we cannot now see our democracy that we're built over the years truncated because of judges' decisions. Having said that, the Chief Justice of Federation should also begin to look at how technology will be helpful to us by having an electronic information to all judges, which every judge can link to, to know if there have been ex-party orders or orders with respect to any question before they issue any order. That really links to my... If a judge finds out that he has made an order which is wrong, the judge that should not be allowed, at the point he gets to know even if it's in his house, he can issue an order setting it aside on his own. So we begin to have some sanity. I said that links to my earlier question where I was asking if one of the challenges is lack of synergy and communication between these judges, but you've now gone ahead to say yes, that's something that could be improved on. So I wanted to ask you, based on your legal expertise, Mr Anna Namba, how do we draw the line between these conflicting court judgments and the rights of a party to appeal because they have that judicial right to appeal? If you're aggrieved by a court judgment, you can go ahead and appeal to a higher court. So how do we make a distinction? Where do we draw the line between when these judges go ahead and break the professional rules of conduct, breach those rules of conduct, and then when people can go ahead and appeal and get a deferring judgment from the court?  Come again? Forum shopping is when litigants go from court to court to find the court that will fail to them. So what you see in these conflicting orders, there's forum shopping underlining it, which is like a class of user process. You may find out that before the judge in KB gave that order, the litigants, the politicians may have gone to several other courts and they were being refused. Where they are refused, you will not be reported. You may not be reported. So you can shop and any judge that agrees, he gives you an order, any judge, rather than appealing that expertly order, rather than appealing that expertly order. The rate of appeal is the proper way to go, even though the current rules of court do not encourage or permit appeal over expertly orders. Now, if an expertly order is made, the property to do yes appeal but not appeal immediately is to bring an application to set aside that expertly order. If it's in the federal record within 14 days of applying to set aside that order, that order expires automatically. So the law has provisions for ways to deal with these issues. But because the politician or the litigant does not want justice really, but just to steal a match, just to have a win, he would rather prefer working with his or her lawyers to go through the way of expertly orders, shopping in other jurisdictions to get some orders. That is what is wrong in the process. That's where the line is. Nobody is stopping a party from exercising constitutional right, but you exercise your constitutional right within the rules and laws of the country. And not being mischievous to beat the system, to debase the system. The only thing standing today is the courts in this country, I can be sure. The legislature, you see, members of the assembly, more or less flow with where their governors are. The ESCO do what they want, executive committee. The judiciary is made from the onset to be independent and the hope of everybody. That is the last man standing. We must not allow it to go down. All right. I want your thoughts on the current cases that have become popular, and that is the Anambra State elections and, of course, May Malabu will need different court orders. How do you see this eventually playing out? Some of these expert orders stand at the end of the meeting with the CJN, or will they be squashed? And which of them do we eventually, although the people involved, eventually take serious? Well, there's a difficulty because there are courts of unnaturalization at the base level. I mean at the high court. Now, if it were the Supreme Court or court of pre-decision, the rules of practice, there are precedents, there are decided cases on what should be done. If it is a conflicting Supreme Court decision or court of pre-decision, the position of the law is that the last decision, the last order, should be the one obeyed. Because the law looks at it that the courts may have thought more in subsequent orders. Now, in this particular case, the invitation of the CJN is not in the way of discipline and conduct, not on the order itself. Those orders may still need to be set aside with an informal application or appeared against, unless an appellate court makes a pronouncement, or the court that made those orders set them aside, they continue to be orders valid orders. But, like I said, the orders of the Federal High Court once there's an application to set it aside will expire after 14 days. So if the Federal High Court order, it goes that way. If it's a State High Court order, where you do not have the same provisions as the rules of the Federal High Court, then there is need for that court to set aside that order. Or an appellate court intervenes. The CJN, even though it's the end of court in Nigeria, cannot set aside a valid order. Or it can deal with the judge that made the order, and NPA can deal with the lawyers that brought the application. Fantastic. That leads me to my final question. When you talk about dealing with the judges, dealing with the laws involved, what sort of punishments can we expect? What sort of punishment can we expect by the CJN or the NPA on these judges that have gone ahead to cause this national embarrassment? In the country for the judges, the judge can be dismissed, who is suspended, can be cautioned, and may be found not to have done anything wrong. We have precedents across these lines. Same with the lawyers. The rules of professional conduct 2020 met provisions also for that. The lawyers can be struck off the road, suspended from practice, cautioned, or set free. Would you advise that Nigeria goes beyond just meeting with the CJN? Should that be further investigations for some of these judges? Because I remember in 2015 or 2016, when some doors were broken down at 1 a.m., there was a lot of people who said that was completely wrong. But would you advise that it would be a little bit more? The young ones, the CJN and the NJC, journalists should do their work. Find out whether there are some other things that happened. The security agencies in this country should do their work. The bad incidents where similar things happened in a lecture petition and the NJC got evidence that backs of money were taken to those judges' houses. It was proved and those judges were dismissed. Like you said, I would advocate that after the dismissal, such people should be prosecuted or sued. All right, Mr Paul Ananamba, Senior Advocate of Nigeria, that's a good place to leave the conversation this morning. We thank you for coming on to provide your legal expertise on the CJN's invitation of these judges and who have issued conflicting court orders. Before I sign off, I would like you, the NBA will be having a webinar on this point on Tuesday. It will be good for Nigerians to hook on. We're bringing in retired judges of the Supreme Court, Court of Appeal, Senior Advocates, former presidents of the band, and the current president of NBA. We're putting them on the stage to discuss these issues as a further way to find a solution to this problem. I will be hosting, NBA speeder will be hosting, I will be coordinating that discussion. All right, we definitely will connect with that and thanks also for inviting us officially and for sharing with us. Thank you. Absolutely. All right, let's take a break here. We'll be back to talk Guinea and their politics.