Yeah, back on the sports max on. Let's continue talking cricket. Defending champions England were battered in the opening match of the ICC 50 over World Cup played earlier on Thursday at the Narendra Modestadium in Ahmedabad. The English were inserted to bat and compiled 282 for 9 from their 50 overs. Their modest innings were stitched together by Joe Roots 77 in reply. The Black Caps lost Will Young for a first ball dock in the second over. That was however the final moment of joy for England. Devon Conway and Rachyn Ravindra both slammed centuries on their way to an unbroken 273 run stand.  And of course no West Indies at the World Cup and with the tournament bowling off earlier on Thursday it was no doubt a bittersweet experience for West Indian cricket fans. I would say a more bitter than sweet. For the first time in history the West Indies failed to secure a spot at the tournament having lifted the title back in 75 and 79. Our next guest was at the helm of the regional cricket board when the Caribbean side secured three world titles in 2016 the men's and women's T20 crowns and the men's under 19 title. We're going to be talking a lot about West Indies cricket and World Cricket with Dave Cameron former CWI president. Mr Cameron it's a pleasure to have you. You've been on a number of times but I feel it's usually on Zoom. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here with us in studio and nobody plays than this new space. Beautiful. Absolutely fantastic. The World Cup started today. How much did you enjoy day one if any at all. Well good afternoon and I think I've met Mariah before speechless and speechless. Oh once. No but I've been in studio at the other studio a couple of times. So Lancers had me had the pleasure of me a couple of times. I've had to defend a few but happy to be here with you. Took a lot of plodding and from here from Mikhail but I'm here. So yeah I didn't watch all the game today but interesting to see what happened. I was disappointed with the turnout. The first game of a World Cup match and there are a number of issues behind that you know for example you know the world believes that wherever there's cricket and it's in India with the respect of who's playing everybody's going to turn up and that is not the case as you can see from today. The ticket prices the ticket venues came out very very late. Those are some of the things that contribute to to the game today but very refreshing to see New Zealand and I always view New Zealand like the Caribbean and my view is that if New Zealand can do what they do consistently similar size population then we just need to adopt some more of what New Zealand does from a performance management perspective and we could emulate New Zealand and you see them right across other sports you know rugby, netball, their top teams as well. Yeah I'm so happy that you started with the turnout today because it was the first thing that struck me I was rather disappointed. I know it wasn't India but it was the opening game of the World Cup and so I expected a lot more support. But Ricardo even with that I've never seen a tournament where the host doesn't open. Yes that was also surprising. Again what's the rationale behind that you know setting the tone with the your host that's one of the reasons you host you set the tone you're going to have the best crowd you can imagine what it would have been in a hundred thousand seater stadium with India versus England today. Yes I want to get your thoughts I don't know how much you follow these things but I want to get your thoughts because I've always had issues with the format of 50 over World Cups. One I generally feel that they are too long this one will be six weeks you have 10 teams you play each other in the opening round and it's almost as if in a tournament format you're giving everybody chance after chance to remain in the tournament. I personally like a 16 team tournament after the first round half of those go home whether you want to go two groups of four or you want to do it knockout style but there is something about a tournament that I think should have that edge about teams losing and being out and you're you're moving on and for me this 50 over World Cup is just too long I don't I don't know what you think about it. Do you want the emotional response do you want the commercial response. I want both. So yeah so from my emotional standpoint I agree with you the commercial reality is that India needs to play maximum games for it to be as successful commercially and so that's why it's as many games because how do you get in there playing maximum games ensuring remember what happened in 2007 in the West Indies they got knocked out early and that was that and so irrespective of where the tournament is playing you want India to be playing as many matches as possible what does that say about our game though that we are so dependent on one nation for television revenue and so on. Correct and that is the challenge that we face and those are the things I was trying to push against when I was at the ICC because the truth is look at what FIFA did yesterday World Cup on three continents 48 team tournament and the game is growing globally whereas we're still left with 10 teams in a in a World Cup environment and if India and England and Australia is not there then there's no value to what we're doing. So those are the issues and ICC and unfortunately my successors are not too concerned about it and it will continue to be that way so the issue is and just to go back to the venues and the timing the the ICC leaves these decisions to the BCCI it will not happen in the West Indies I bet you that the venues will be decided on very early ticket prices will be set where the matches are going to be hosted will be set early but the BCCI has carte blanche to determine where the matches are going to play because they also get all the revenues from the games that are hosted there. One quick one should we also expect for the T20 World Cup next year that majority of the matches will be played in the mornings to satisfy the Indian population. You are correct. And would you say that it hurts cricket on the whole? Well I wouldn't want to say it hurts but obviously for us viewing in the region and wanting to attend the game it is a struggle how many of us are going to go to a nine o'clock game and especially in a weekday just not going to happen but that's the commercial side of the game and as we grow everybody wants to be paid and so we have to match commercial with the game itself and the growth of the game. So the other way to do that is to grow it in markets that is an overtime zone the United States Canada and in South and Central America. And Dave something that has been disturbing the entire Caribbean we spoke about it on the show yesterday no West Indies on this biggest stage talk to me about that as a former president of CWI how do you feel about this? Well I think I made my views public when we didn't qualify so I think if you go and check my Twitter timeline there's some views there. I'm very very disappointed but the day was cast Mariah I don't know if Ricardo was on the show but four years ago we beat England in a series in the Caribbean 2019 test cricket and ODI's I lost the elections in March and we totally threw out all the gains that we had made we picked a team we selected a team and coached to go to the 2019 World Cup and we came ninth that's the reason we're not here today it has nothing else all the other things in between because if we had played well in that tournament we would have qualified automatically for this tournament so everything else is corollary to what happened in 2019. You know there are some detractors Dave who would say but when you were president West Indies had to go through a qualifying tournament and some would say we barely got through that qualifying tournament and absolutely and so my administration took all the blows in a very difficult period we were we had to reshape rejiggle the employment contracts the employment conditions and so we got through that a lot of the players decided that they were not playing they worked out on West Indies cricket so that is part of a difficult period in which we started to rebuild and we had players and I said to you just think about in 2019 when the West Indies beat England in the test series we had four players four batters that were in the top 20 in the world we had four bowlers in the top 20 in the world your statistician you can go and check it out because I hear to go and check it cricket is a team sport one person can't win and as you just demonstrated and spoke about Haley there's no way we're going to be a force to be reckoned with what one team has to be a system and when I became president in 2013 I remember Simon Croskell asking me how long I wanted to be president and I said team if it was possible that once I moved on we continued the systems in place then I would have it you know it would have I would have been happy going in a year or a month my disappointment is that we showed everything that we had put in place and worked for the performance system and that's the reason why we're we're here today tell me in 10 years 11 years of CPL cricket tell me the new players that have come through in the 11 years in our domestic tournament we have players who are stars in the CPL who can't who have retired from the IPL that tells you about the standard and what we're offering in the Caribbean so I don't want to you know but the information is there just go and look at it if you're if you've played 150 games and averaging 25 it means that you are 25 better yes it's gonna get any better unless you change something if you're 19 and you've played five games and you're averaging 19 25 then I believe you can get better yeah yeah your narrative just now Dave just presented a picture that during your years of presidents between 2013 and 2019 you're building something that crashed after you left but the statistics show that the cricket had declined while you were there as well because if you look at the world ratings whichever cricket West Indies president incoming points to that they want to move the West Indies rankings forward we have some statistics showing that when you became president back in 2013 the West Indies ranked seventh in test cricket seventh in ODI and eighth in T20 when you left in 2019 they were down to eighth down to ninth down to eighth in test down to ninth in ODIs and one place up in the T20s so your departure saw the West Indies based on its ranking in world cricket in a worse position than when you came in in 2013 so I'm not sure if the picture you're painting that you were building something and then it went crashing when you left is accurate and I remember Lance viewers it's accumulative performance ranking it's not you know it's not as of today yeah the 2013 ranking would have been a culmination of everything that happened before that it's a two year three year sliding scale and in the same way the rankings in 2019 but remember again Lance I went through a very difficult period where the players walked out on West Indies cricket in 2013 2014 like we forget but your detractors would say that that was really there there there was a toxic atmosphere in West Indies cricket and relationship with the players triggered by your style of leadership right which which triggered that so how would you respond to that my response to that it was not about the leadership they the players used that as an excuse to play to explore their T20 skills all around the world as a matter of if you think about in 2016 when we won that World Cup the beneficiary of that World Cup was all the players and management every player after that time got contracts all around the world and in IPL to play West Indies cricket didn't actually make any more money um and again going back to the the issue with how world cricket is is is set up you win all the championships and offer in 2013 but yet still commercially West Indies cricket was was worse off because now all the players found a reason why they didn't want to play for West Indies because the relationship with the president and whatever the case is whatever really remember just remember this whatever you want to view my relationship with the players as tell me at what point and anytime have I made any disparaging comments against our players except for the Twitter that I retweeted and responded and you mean Gail Chris Gail Chris Gail where where have I made any despite that Bravo had an issue with your misrepresentation of the the contract that he had which caused the problem as well and that was done actually on Sportsmax yes well I was asked a question and I said the contract was downgraded whether it was from A to B or B to C okay that's irrelevant it was downgraded my bad and should I have known that maybe not I'm not in the room I'm doing these things so I misrepresented it and I apologize but I have never ever gone on air and none of the players none can say that I've ever had a hard word with them yeah the other thing though so so all I'm saying to your lands and you've bought into it and all of you have bought the entire Caribbean because the entire Caribbean yeah man because the emotion no because you're emotional okay the the thing about it is that I'm never gonna go up against my players they they are who everybody they are who everybody comes to look look at but I'm in a very difficult position as a cricket board as a governing body we see players we have future players we have current players and we have past players our job is a very difficult one in that our players today want to get all the resources that comes in because the span the lifespan as a sportsman is very short etc they forget that we had to fund 15 17 19 for them to come through we have to ensure that that continues yep but before you before you continue on that line though because we spoke about the players and your relationship with the players but it wasn't just the players there were stakeholders in West Indus cricket that at the end of your tenure were we're happy to see you go because there was a bad relationship between yourself and no man there's not bad relationship I don't call it that what was it we had a disagreement on on on the way forward so for example um prime ministers yes yeah prime ministers I I remember having a meeting with Rowling Mitchell and guns we're at a meeting with the prime ministers two of them um guns um Mitch Rowling was not prime minister at the time had a with with prime minister Gonzales and Mitchell in Trinidad yeah in Trinidad and I outlined to them a sustainable program that I put in place and what I was trying to build and the response the first response was I'm not here to for a lecture and I my response was well I'm just trying to say to you that what we're doing it's not something I just pick out of a hat and say you know whatever so and I've actually sent it to carry come because one of the when I became president I visited all of them and I said listen I need your support it's gonna be tough the changes I want to be able to even come to carry come and report to you on what we're doing and for you to ask me the hard questions I couldn't get a chance to go to carry come I was never invited um are they always very busy so I sent the document our strategic plan and what we're doing into carry come if they didn't get it that's not my challenge and I communicated directly with never December who was the advisor to the to the chairman of carry come but but the point is we try to explain to them that it's not which has to be sustainable explain to them we had a massive shortfall you know of finances and there's no way we're going to get funding if we're not performing and so the route to starting to get to that point results was results and starting to to create a system that we could produce players one player one star in a west in this team and that's what we've been we've been we've been looking at you know you had mentioned Brian Lara it was just one star for 10 years then Chris Gale and then you know you when we were when we started and this is what I'm saying to your system go back again and look at 2019 the rankings um and and statistics we can put it anywhere we want to get the results we want but just look back at 2019 when we won that work that series against England look at the quality of the players the ranking the world rankings forget about what the the averages were in the Caribbean because the world rankings will tell you where they're at at that particular time in where they're going we're the number one all-round in in the Caribbean leading the team we had Kim Aroch we had um from the fast bowler from from um you had Shannon Gabriel and Alzare Joseph all in that team and we had Rustin Chase batting we had the wicked keeper from Barbados I don't know what has happened to Shane Dorwich Shane Dorwich and all these guys and and Craig Buffett so all I'm saying to you is it you we could all we could talk about this from from now to diking them are you suggesting those players have regressed since 2019 well I'm I'm not suggesting the numbers are there again I'm I don't know yeah if you ask me I don't see them they were in the top 20 top 30 in the world in 2019 well Roach is getting older so you know his decline is is understandable but Dorwich's disappearance is is of concern and and Holder is not being as consistent as he he would have been three or four years ago would have been a concern as well I want to get this one in in Dave if you had the opportunity to do it again would you change anything about how you govern yeah you know that's a tough one because Ricardo the the issue is it was never about how I governed it was how it was received um what do I mean by that would I uh am I happy we had a strike in India absolutely not we we tried everything to averted but all the presidents prior to me had two and three strikes okay and and the thing got succeedingly worse all as I mean as a matter of a where's all who was closest to the players I think had two strikes um he was he was very disappointed I had several conversations and he was bitterly disappointed that the players went on strike so I think his hope was received my biggest mistake in my mind was I assumed we assumed that having had the conversations with the players association that it would have been received in the same way we with with with other players associations before that was able to communicate and the players had a buy-in so the misstep was that we did not sit down with the players and explain to them in as clearer detail what the changes in remuneration would mean because that was the biggest issue yeah um excuse me if you've answered this question before because I know with these issues and especially in your position sometimes you can feel like you're answering the same question over and over again but I remember when the strike happened in India one of the criticism is that you as president took too long to get to India to have direct conversations with the cricketers yeah I didn't know and I was planning to go there either but I we had we had um the first time I got wind that there was trouble I immediately asked for a Skype call with the players which they agreed to through weaver and on the day of the Skype call I was told that they don't want to speak to me anymore they're going to instruct weaver what needs to happen and if we didn't agree to terms then the the the actual quotation in the letter was that if we didn't agree then they will bring western cricket to its knees do you feel that miscommunication was a major part of what happened because I absolutely I've had conversations with the players as well of course off the record and many of them felt as if they could not speak to you as if you were not responding to their calls and messages in the way that they wouldn't like well well mariah let me let me tell you let me let me let me let me let me let me just tell you this I made myself available there's no player in the western is that didn't have my phone number or my email address I we went it was initially when we took over in 2013 we took the players to to florida on a farm trip which we were heavily criticized for as well because they were going off to a tour in india we didn't do very well in india and i remember tony cozer said i have the guys in gallivanting all over the place and we were supposed to be getting ready to go to india we got beaten i we i we went i played football with them i bowled to them i played basketball we went to to to the sea aquarium and i rode on the bus with them from orlando to to florida just to show that i'm not above and beyond all of them i sat with the three captains at the time bravo pollard and sammy in the hotel in trinidad and i said to them gentlemen this is the kind of approach i'd like to get what year what year was this 2013 2013 2013 we we took office in march we went to florida in summer i didn't make the trip to kazada another meeting and so the players ended up going to the nba game the miami heats carol was was a major part of that so for them to say that mr bravo on his way the last communication i had with mr bravo on his way to trinidad was um to india was questioning the selection of the team persons in the team that was the last communication but for him to say that he can't reach me or that i was in any way it's not him nobody um no for anybody to say that i was unavailable and i could not be rich is not so yeah are we gonna are we gonna see you pop up in administration anywhere anytime soon sports administration maybe another sport absolutely absolutely so yeah i'm as you'd know ricardo i would know i'm just asking yeah man you the news is out why are you thinking football football football in jamaica um you know hopefully i can i can assist rayman anderson who is running as the the next president of the gff to bring some of the performance um metrics to to the sport the biggest challenge i had in west india's cricket is that we got very um insular if you want to call it so the issues i have was more about you know if this player didn't play is because i didn't like trinidad or didn't like basions as a matter of fact when i became president in 2013 there was an article that came out in the barbados today that said the reason why all only trinidad were playing because i didn't like basions and i shut down the academy in barbados and by the time of my tenure i didn't like trinidad and i was just now picking what's your problem so what's my problem and and jamaicans voted me out i have a tough question i have a tough question for you though dav i have a tough football question for you sure tell me um you're supporting rayman anderson to unseat michael ricketts as president of the jamaica football federation that's good um does dav cameron and rayman anderson agree with the sacking of lawn donalds and the coach of the women's team well first thing lawn donalds wasn't sacked the non-renewal of his contract non-renewal of his contract and the way it was done is is mr anderson happy with it well we could we could always go around and try and figure out um what's the best way to do it i don't i don't have a handle on what the process is within the jff if you're asking me how i would have done it um i would have simply sent lawn a letter outlining the reasons for his non-renewal i wouldn't even have a meeting with him because at the end of the contract and let's be fair again depends on who you want to be but you could have easily sent him a letter to say that we're not renewing the contract but inviting him to a meeting to say we're not renewing why would you not renew a contract of a coach that has been immensely successful well again i don't know what were the terms of his engagement okay that that's the point i'm making so until you understand the terms of his engagement is it that we're at this juncture remember now resources additional resources would have come in for the campaign um and i heard speed on a program saying that they could not afford root of speed um right um carrying him forward yeah you call it very loosely you call his name very loosely though yeah it's my friend it's your friend yeah okay we're out of time quickly what role are you are you are you i'm i'm right now i chair um reamon's campaign um to to become the next so you're a loosely the campaign manager no the chairman of the campaign team okay so you won't be on the executive if he wins i will leave that to reamon i'm i'm in his cabinet got it all right you want to wrap it yeah the one and only Dave Cameron it's been a pleasure our producer has been wrapping us for the last 10 minutes we got to get in some of that day one on the cricket world cup if that was day one i tell you what day one on this show was better than day one in a matter by today absolutely let's go to a break bye


All right, you know, Secretary LaRose, we brought up the word earlier, trust. I'd like to turn to that and think a little bit more about trust in these elections. And because we've heard some concerns about the legitimacy of the voting process. And these concerns boil down to two types. On the one hand, there's worry that those who should not be allowed to vote will try to vote. And on the other hand, there's concerns that those who ought to be allowed to vote will not be able to. Along the lines of what we've just been talking about, whether it's because of suppression or fear. What problem most concerns you and what are you doing to prevent it? Go ahead, Secretary Benson. Yeah, I mean, I think we both always say we wanna make it easier to vote and harder to cheat. Which is really captures that we think and I think it's possible to address both of those things. And in fact, that's what election administration requires. You work every day to make the process accessible and secure. And you put security protocols in place to protect the system against any who would seek to undermine the will of the voters. And that is what our work is every day as election officials, as secretaries of state. And I feel, in my view, I'll say this to take a step back. I started this work now, I'm ending my second year as secretary of state in preparation for November's elections over multiple elections. We had three in 2019 and we've had three already this year we're about to have our fourth in November. In each one, we really build a process along three vectors. Number one, the infrastructure itself, making sure we've got enough machines, enough ballots, enough poll workers, essentially that we've built the election infrastructure. The voter file is secure to ensure it's accessible. We have options to vote in Michigan that I've mentioned. You can vote from home. You can vote at your clerk's office early. You can vote in person on election day, making sure each of those options are known by all voters. It's why I sent an application to vote by mail to every voter in the state of Michigan, which I believe Frank has done as well. And also I followed his lead by putting vote by mail applications in every Kroger throughout the state. That was something that I was able to do really as Frank did that in Ohio with Kroger's there. We were able to just import that idea here and Kroger was easily able to adjust and expand. So my point is, I've worked to educate voters and build a system that works. And then the second vector is voter education, making sure voters know about all these options. And the success of those two first vectors really depends on the third, which is misinformation. And will voters actually know about the system or the election security aspect of undermining the infrastructure that we've built. So with that in mind, I'm proud that we built an infrastructure to ensure that every vote cast will be counted securely that will catch fraud if it happens and it happens rarely, but when it does, we catch it and we prosecute it. And that we built a system that voters can get information about through both michigan.gov slash vote, which communicates all your voting options and michigan.gov slash election security, which communicates all the security protocols and things we're doing to protect the integrity of the system. But that third vector, the one that's misinformation and false information and really any information that is inaccurate and designed to sow seeds of doubt amongst our voters about the truth and integrity of our elections process, that's the vector that's the hardest and really where I'm focused right now on so we can ensure come election day, voters not only have an infrastructure that works and are educated on how to vote, but also that they are confident that their vote will count based on their knowledge of accurate information that has been given to them and provided to them in light of the inaccurate or misinformation that others may try to infiltrate into the system. I just wanna build on what Secretary Benson said because she's right that elections are very well run in states like Michigan and Ohio, the infrastructure, the security, the people involved, the very bipartisan oversight of elections administration that occurs, the fact that we've put into place great cybersecurity protocols I know in Michigan and also in Ohio, that's been a big focus. And so it's a matter of again, making sure that people have that accurate information and know that they can trust elections. And again, this is to me something that's really fundamental to our way of life. I mean, the idea that the only legitimacy that any elected official has comes from the consent of the governed is a well accepted principle. If you don't have the consent of the governed, you're just a person with flags and a seal. You have no legitimacy or power to actually govern. The only way that we really establish that legitimacy, that consent of the governed is through a free and fair election that everybody knows can be trustworthy and honest. And so that's where that combating disinformation is so important. And here's where it doesn't just come from foreign disinformation. That is a very troubling thing that we work to combat. It is real and it's something that we take very seriously in Ohio.  But it also comes from partisans on both sides that want to, as I say, push the hyperbole button over and over again because it excites people. It elicits a response. It makes people want to come to a rally or push the button on the website to donate money or whatever the thing is. And that's, I guess, good news that we're still really emotional about voting rights. We still really care deeply about this. But politicians do a disservice when they constantly push that hyperbole button. When folks on the right claim that there's widespread rampant voter fraud, it's not true and they shouldn't say that. Likewise, when people on the left claim that it's hard to vote because there's widespread rampant voter suppression, I would also submit that that's not true and people shouldn't say that. Let's be honest, neither of those are ever tolerable. You can't tolerate fraud in any form and you can't tolerate suppression in any form and you should put smart policies in place and carry out the laws of your state to prevent either of those ugly things from ever happening. But here's the net result. When politicians over here say there's all this fraud, so you can't trust the result. And when politicians over here say there's all this suppression, so it's hard to vote. When neither one is true, the net result is it makes the average person say why the heck would I want to participate in a system like that? I'm gonna set it out. That's what really bothers me. And that's why I wanna make sure that we're getting accurate information out there, pushing back on disinformation and being that trusted source for our state along with our local elections officials to make sure people know your vote really will count. It really is easy to vote in our state and you should participate.


think I think I feel like the most charitable reading is she was trying to be snarky, but like it just didn't work Very lost and does sometimes come with us has been out of touch Uh Fine, I don't want to fight you guys fine fine. I'm out. It's not a big fan of this box so far Yeah, maybe it goes not good either I'll find the movie above tweet link it Oh, just find mollusk tweet if you reply to it Maybe he blocked you jay No, I want his account and I can't I can't see it. I can't see the one that you are referring to now go one.  Yeah, that's fun. Oh, sorry. I guess I just gotta get used to that. No, no, he's gonna block me I'm on the account and I can't find the specific tweet. I mean Oh Let me find it. Let me check it out He with four swords. Yeah. Oh, here we go.   I don't know man. He's even like the super villain trooper.  I don't want to have to do it again. It's so lame Hunter by Hunter battle hunter Biden battles I'm not gonna I'm just gonna ignore it.   I'm lucky. I dodged the one hit bill there That wouldn't have been fun Holy shit, I don't think I have enough resources to fight the one reborn. Oh, well Man, my head still hurts from a crash playthrough. I still feel it. Oh, yeah, that's what it hurts from This is my righty and I don't you've been doing too many wanks. No, I don't use my righty for that Oh, I'm sure you don't Yeah, righty Righty tidy lefty loosey.  She's gonna have randies attacking you who are like here, but not here Are you cunts? Hello What You can't say my name and then not have a follow-up. I find that outrageous I didn't have a follow-up You haven't made it clear. So I just I've decided that you didn't have one at all Let's have them all in. Oh, wait, what? Do you do you redraft? No I consider redrafting a sort of How do I put this like it it's ruining What came from your heart?  They're really just failures and they're just trying to account for that failure But yeah, redraft implies you failed your first time It's like they have no confidence.  It's weird. No Jay Somebody said a thousand said here you go. Oh, thanks for helping with the world building again. No no problem I don't know what the thousand means, but thanks Is it bits? What are bits? They're like donation tisms. I think a thousand is ten dollars. I think Oh, thanks I dodged you're being a flaunt. Yeah That's a new word. That's a fun word a flaunt And uh dark gene cream baby. Why must I do all of this to get to the good bosses? So I've heard about bits You better just dodging. Yeah, probably.  I I think I've seen what you mean about hey the game tricks you into thinking you didn't one shot you Why happy? Swing twice Oh peeing everywhere I was so close This is a lot of the design has that I mentioned it a theo and I think theo wanted to try and make some form of a defense Like it's a part of the design like it's a oh, I'm out of fucking. Yeah, there's no way I'm going in this Where'd you pick the threaded cane because uh, we will be that will be our restriction on our Most upcoming race. We've got to use the cane Oh, are you doing that run through now? No, this is the practice run And for me, it's practice but not with the cane just like actually knowing what the game's content is Uh, christianity, how did you find? I'll go ahead moller christianity won out by being so malleable in taking on pagan christ Uh pagan traditions along with consolidation of power and a single figure was appealing to leaders compared to polyith Polytheist structures also high mollarenko.  Is it central yonam, I think yeah Thank you person in chat. What'd they say? Like a new hair suits me. I like your new hair too Thank you one though. I haven't checked twitter, but I'm sure it's great. It's just long. I haven't had it cut for a year That's that's what I did Wait, uh, do you have a link because I I'm unfamiliar with this completely And whose fault is that fringy. Hmm on this planet. Yeah, let's see if I can find a recent picture blood vials, all right, wait Oh, give me that blood We've been gone for hours. Nido.  Japanese is a class a example for isolation Uh, isolating themselves for a time. Can't remember when because of this They in terms of art flourished greatly in terms of art Um, I know that japan was isolationist prior to when they sort of went very empire-ish In world war two dose World war dose. I do think I do think the hair is very suitable Thank you. I know anything. Oh, yeah I give seven thumbs that's more than two And that's all I actually have on my hand. It has to be good.   That's mine Providing the people around them for the blood Hey chat excluding sport gene is the best jack books character for me fair I don't even think they would say sport some of them would say sport. That's gonna be the normies your choice. I think So you're looking for the real fans Oh, yes True fans put j is in chat Maybe they're saying that you are the best meme Well, maybe All right, that'll be good enough for the one reborn at least try them one time Oh, everyone's saying galitha J but with piss I don't think that happened but You can appreciate the spirit of that comment When's the next uh chat box dream gonna be huh? I don't know Probably after the next blood born one because that's that's probably gonna close the chapter on blood born Oh the definitive champion smaller is it? That is that deciding well Oh, it's it's pretty much whoever beats the other in in the race is basically the best blood born player on earth.  Wow. Can you really argue with the truth there? Oh, why would I want to Jay but edgy Oh, who's better? Fringy that one or echelosh? I didn't even get to hit him once he killed me Someone said someone in chat said get jobs hippies There's like a 10% chance that's an ironica thing. Well, but the but what we're doing would be be done by anybody on the hours Fringy did this after work But honestly though guys when you stop and give me money or that makes it that makes my life better, so You're upsetting that poor person who called you a hippie Keep doing it. All right, keep upsetting the hippie. That's the guy who called us hippies. I guess that's there you go do Can you stop stealing my health? I think getting really close to the mic and being dramatic Is one of the funniest One of the funniest things you can do Jay the comedy here is so lackluster Do something about it. Stop vomiting Jay is blood born edgy with its blood gems and blood echoes I would I'd ask you but you ended that with the full stuff instead of a question mark, so Oh, no I don't know. It's like I mean blood is a co-element in the game that like Like the universe the story is all about manipulating blood basically That is pretty edgy though Um, I think it's really neat the the mechanics and the systems they created out of it edgy I think it's more meaningful than simply being like my sword is a blood sword.  Oh, I mean, I'm making more video material than I've been making in a while But it's all going into one big video. So Don't really address the jingle hymer comment though Can you hear it seagull? Yeah They were pretty loud remember when I played you like the um The song of your people the clip of uh I think bring it. I think you're the only one who was around You hear this the clip of um seagulls just in my city, but just what it often sounds like insane degrees of noise just Oh come to avidine it's biggest biggest dolls in the uk What's the selling point? Well, hang on. Let me see if I can find it. Um vomiting again, really? I'm sorry Yeah, um, this is the survival guide published by my city council I will put it in chat actually um Bring it's going in your chat too. If you allow links and then it's going in our chat This this was this was published by a city council urban dolls Living with urban living with urban goals survivors guide Do not Eat dolls. Yeah, it's funny, right? Things you can do do not drop litter or food Well, all of them are like be a good neighbor and don't attract girls to your garden by feeding me She's a paper don't Oh man, they're encouraging you to smite the eggs god damn pierce or oil the eggs to remain Wait, why does it say that this is I don't even know that this qualifies as a battle sometimes Just flash on my screen Can't you just do you have a serious question if it's a big problem? Isn't there like an extermination force for these things if it's that how I don't know how the fuck you could They fly They're everywhere and they can they can live in like a sea as well I got me collage next okay pity me It is illegal to capture injure or destroy or draw any wild bird or interfere with its nest or eggs Oh, so you'd rather it destroy Aberdeen then penalties can be severe However, the law also provides a general license system which allows property owners to take action against girls nesting on buildings by destroying necessary I'm sorry The system can only be used for the purpose of preserving public health public safety and the spread of disease Or specifically for control of herring great black bearded. Um, what? great black backs and lesser black The bad camera angle is based on your positioning mohler. No No, the game can't handle focus on large enemies that you get close to stop forgiving the game for this stop Bloodborne is awesome.   He's really ugly and he has a weird hat. That's that's why i'm worried about him They maybe made some of his hat jay. Are you happy now? Honest to god jay. I thought jay was talking about wild girls Yeah, they make a lot of fucking noise in this city It's illegal to destroy their nests unless they're invasive on your property No, but it's Weird though like if ghosts nest on your property you can arrange for eggs to be pierced or oil Isn't piercing just a politically correct way of saying poking a stick I think sorry for the egg so it doesn't happen. Yeah, so abort abort the seagull Oh my god, so you can't kill it unless for very specific circumstances, huh? um In relation to the the isolation thing could that be a civilization that had a bad experience with interacting with other societies Um, probably have to be a significantly bad interaction several times I guess I could almost destroy their entire way and they've just concluded that isolationism is the only way One reason like I guess if they've been Invaded a lot of times or whatever If like if the people around them are like a warring people so That could work Pray to jay Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.  Oh, it's from revolver. What is it? I No, okay, so we go on musk earlier today.  Jay sounds like you offended them Your sjw friends would see that as clear harassment. What? Well, my my cinema sins videos my videos about them My all my sjw friends would see that as a harassment Jay stop being so sjw Oh, wait, you criticize a man. They're probably going to give you a trophy for firefighting the patriarchy Man like 2015 internet politics Jay good job on the beating the patriarchy, by the way I'm single-hand Kind of impressed. Can you saw the matriarchy now? That one's good actually. Oh, what about the middle one? The nbiaki that one's yeah, that one's pretty cool.  That's not how you make friends, mate How'd you make friends?  Just don't throw stones. Yeah, that's the thing Hey, I was wondering how to get more feedback on my review. How did you guys do it? Was it luck? Was it more precise? Share it on different websites ask friends of yours. Um It's kind of tough sometimes Unfortunately, I would recommend reddit, but then I would also not recommend reddit I got lucky on 4chan with one of my videos You do have to like show yourselves though At some point Like like you mean like get naked? Yeah, like you start that only fans I'm not gonna say I'm against a weekend warrior and only fans Maybe I'm already on only fans I would win, all right. That's right. That's not telling you.  Oh Oh boy, I get to fight micholash for you. Don't be angry. The game is trying I'm more stressed out at the moment. Um, I think I like midnight streams. I feel like super lucid I'm so tired Um, I've been rewatching batman the animated series and it definitely has my favorite depiction of batman in it Fair enough. Wait, what's sorry? Batman the animated series. It's their favorite depiction of batman Batman the animated series is a pretty good Or is it No, like I I I do wonder that much another one like I doubt it's like the point was that I'm actually like pretty confident From what I even though I haven't watched like I barely remember it. I just know it's like good of everybody pulls it good Um, kevin conroe was in that so was my camel because I kind of became the established voices Of those characters. So they they definitely had that um, and I think batman the animated series are started the DC animated universe, which is a much more cohesive and better property than the The live action one. It's pretty funny Well, actually it's not surprising at all because it's all about the writing at the end of the day Production values are only going to get you so far, which is really nowhere at all. Well, michelash cooperated in that first bit really well Let's see how that plays out as time goes on Nor They're like one of those uncontacted tribes they still have You know, like they still have Spears arrows me And well, it it doesn't remain me for long The story takes a pretty dark turn So a bunch of people sort of found this island And they went there and wanted to make contact with them.  There are many. I think there are thousands of them in the amazon Um, imagine like being one of them and seeing a helicopter I mean we start worshiping it, right? Wow, that's their first years at it. That's the thing. I don't intend to worship them.   Make less.  Margot's Wet nurse and I hate it That's the thing man, you got it's another it's a whole row of bad bosses in our in our yeah Why would you defend this man? Why? I It's mechanically infertile.  Oh, yeah, there's almost no stranger.  Well, they're not frogs. They're toads Uh starters There is a difference And I'm not sure I'm not and also you're spelling it wrong. They're not spelled like came the name. They spelled c a n e um And also, I don't know what you want to say.   Yeah Cane toads were brought to australia because they didn't like some of the natural beetles here The cane toads killed all the beetles and also many other animals. So that was a very good decision One of one of the many brilliant decisions made by some of australia's earliest inhabitants like letting loose 20 rabbits to hunt them Not killing them all and then there are like billions of rabbits now and then you had to build like a 10 000 10 000 is an exaggeration A fence that stretches all the way From the top of australia to the bottom that doesn't even work Good job many good It's funny the dingo fence was more effective Than the rabbit proof fence the rabbit proof fence is not rabbit proof, but it is a good movie How big is the frog fence? There is no frog fence The frog rule this country Frogs just jump They're mad at me. There's no fence that can stop a frog. Let's be honest We're going to ball the wall I just to build a wall around the frogs. Wouldn't you?  God this fight is so good though The pride you must feel watching streamers play against this character when you first release the game Oh, yes This fight's more tolerable when you deal damage. I mean I am you can clearly I'm winning I won I love that the fight's more tolerable when it's over faster Yep Please tell me this is a hidden boss.  I am here with you Fringy. I shall touch you Like this boss. Let me tell you Really, you don't like to be touched I wanted to put you touching away Or is that gonna get me copyright struck? You are out of touch and out of time Don't walk just saying the name of any song will get you a copyright strike Well, I mean I am singing the song No, just say the name of the song you'll get banned I gotta find so many blood chunks.   Um, I mean I've met you. Whoa.  I'm gonna tell Fringy. You said that Don't please don't tell him Fringy. What did jay say?  I that's it. That's the apology. There's not even an explanation Lyrics aren't usually copyrighted. It's generally the notes of the music that matters jay. I I know that I was joking jay was having a giggle Just like It happens all the time what do you mean? Touch time Seems out of more than just tone Yeah, that's gonna trick them super safe, right? We tricked switch, right? We'd be amazon I am out of touch and out of time Seven oh, that's it right you're out of touch Did a shock I'm gonna get you again. Oh, that's so funny me. Oh, I thought Yeah, I'm out of short.  Yeah james sticks Shadows of yawning.  Please. Please. Please. Please. Please.   No, he could hit me in one hit and kill me. So that's super nice In blight did I miss the resolution of what happened to the kid's parents? I'm what the uncle had to do with it seemed important till they dropped it What I don't know what to tell you buddy. What do you mean they dropped it? What do you mean? What do you mean they dropped it They told you what happened to them and it's the whole reason he harbors what he harbors What do you mean basil? I feel like they're expecting it to be a different kind of payoff That's your problem is you wanted something else not that they didn't pay it off. I'm saying it's a you problem Yeah, absolutely I want more fire papers all right about fire I'll set you on fire That's not really the same thing is it that's not what I asked for what you just said takes advantage of me So i'm gonna tell everyone My cunning plan has been found out Was it really cunning if it was easily found out? Yeah, you're just very clever I win Excellent You know who's next Well, technically speaking you could pick from a lot, but I mean typically you go to dlc now Ludwig is the first of the dlc bosses and technically You can fight Ludwig from as early as you unlock them That's kind of where the game expects you to begin to try so you should be In a pretty good position to do so Um, admittedly I am pretty tired, so I'm probably gonna Well One of the bosses where I can Well, I can guide you kind of Not really I just realized this guy there's a bit of a wavy path. It's like um I mean, it's not that if you like get a youtube video up that just says like pathway to Ludwig Because it's not um It's not entirely straightforward Yeah, cathedral or then straightforward. No to the left of the three exits. Do you want the left exit? And then um There is an amygdala that can grab you you need to walk up to like Typically, there's something to collect there like a like an outfit.   What is that?  Yeah She doesn't look that wet does she?  Hey Thank you for stealing a joke with yours This is what I call gameplay What's she doing? She's not even attacking me anymore.  Is that so? She's getting offended. Why is she just never turning to look at me though? That's my question Does she think I'm ugly?  Why'd you do this to me mom? I guess she can't be staggered Can I throw molotovs at it?   Anyone else bored? My name is mom blow Oh, that's what you say in like the climactic scene of captain marvel, but if you were captain marvel. Yeah My name is not buddy It's not incredible either that ship is sail I'm wombo. I am wombo.   It took like 20 minutes for it to It's supposed to let you absorb the moment because killing the wetness is such a fun achievement. She's such a great boss I feel sarcasm. Why are the bosses flaking out at mola? I don't know. They're afraid of the bumbo In ones that's that's awesome. That makes me really happy Well, I'm so proud of you. I mean, I would just blame the game, right? Let me go buy some blood veils Great 15 in stock.  I'm being ludwig fist, right? Oh I have to record some stuff Oh, goodbye weak in the world. You're talking bye. It was it was good hanging out serves Except for j It's getting j you know, you know, I love you Okay, when's our next when's our next podcast? Yeah, j.  It'll happen. It'll happen. I'm I'm just I'm very busy at the moment, which is why all right Which is why I procrastinated for two hours on this stream We won't hold it. I get that all right. I get that feeling Hey, you've never been to dundee. Have you? Oh getting cold out.  So they have bigger seagulls in dundee? Is that what I'm hearing?  I'll tell you that But no, I've never actually stopped.  I make dollar grab me help Um, believe in yourself Have fun guys. See you next time. Goodbye. Actually, I did it. Bye tag We're in tag J. How much longer for your mando video? Uh six years Also, I might have missed some context or explanation What happens that thing about torchwood free fab or something?  All right Wait, so fringy the best way to do this is probably to watch me do it and then you do it Okay, because you can't pause in this shitty game So you want to go Forward and then straight to the right you can pick up them if you want whatever just then you go up here You're gonna see a hunter with two beasts Avoid avoid He's a very angry man. You don't don't want to ask him his name or anything And then you keep on going Keep on going you go ahead all the way to the top of this big staircase. That's pretty easy to remember And then you'll find Right at the top you have to turn right and go through a little hole That is the first section of getting to Ludwig I'll wait for you to get here because this is like a safe space For snowflakes Yeah, just get to the top of the stairs Wait, where are you? Oh, yeah, just that staircase get all the way to the top And then as soon as you pass the big flaming ball that gets sent to you You're gonna want dodge left or right when you get to that bit And then turn right Right That's left This is right That's right. Yeah, and then through the little hole Okay, all right now you're gonna watch me again. I guess because this is a bit this is a bit tricky can be anyway So well go all the way down here then we'll then we'll go from there so What we want if you can see on my screen you see that bridge in the distance I can't even like Where my hat is you want to get to that bridge? Okay, and then you go to the right of it. We can unlock the first shortcut I don't usually do that but for the sake of getting you to Ludwig I will so because it could we could don't have to do all this again Then watch out for these guns.  Yeah There's one hidden there's a hidden gun So It's big gay man Oh I could actually be Good man, and uh, I would imagine you would not want to do that because it'll end the game Yeah, yeah, but I'm just saying like that's where I'm at. Yeah I'm gonna get on with what I need to do and also it's okay. Bye. I guess I need to do that too Bye Wait, I I lost you I lost you Um When you get through the house, you're gonna get get forward go through the house There's a couple of hunters to get past. They can be a bit of a bitch And then go under the bridge and turn right as soon as you go to the other side Go up the stairs and follow forward until you come to two double doors open them and you've got to sell the first shortcut Yeah, just go to the bottom level and then go out the door to the right of where you came in rather than the left All right under the bridge turn right Yeah, this bit this bit is pure chaos when you just want to get to the bosses Yeah, yeah up there go through the big hole and then you'll that's the first shortcut opened So that's some progress for you that's permanent. Um, I just realized that I need to show you the rest of it So I'm just gonna go back to where I was Okay, let go like as far as you can without alien anybody just you know like where that opening is I'll go there in a second and show you where's next Experiencing old hunters at all like I'm just Oh, well, that's the thing if you want to explore this place you can lay up if you want to get straight to the boss Um, all right. So I opened the shortcut, which is by here.   Right here.  Sometimes I don't when you get up here Just go forward Is gonna be a big guy with a gun you have to avoid Just go all the way forward and then you're looking for once you pass Uh, this would be what leads to your shortcut once you get well, it's not a shortcut It's a lantern in here and then you're ready for the boss.  All right, lidwig, let's have a go Lidwig is Common choice for top boss. I do not share that sentiment. Well, I do for a second phase though You're interested to see what you think of them Exclusively Well, I guess that could mean we get some good stuff Maybe you be soft you be soft massive is the guys who make the division so I don't know what to make of that a live service destiny type star wars game could be good, but probably I don't know about that I do like Stuff about the division, but no more EA exclusivity. That's that's good as far as I was concerned That that deal has not yielded much in the way of good content Another generic you were soft open world game. Yeah, that's the concern, right? It's my concern anyway Very much by fault that was a kill the enemy by the gate before ludwig.  I don't know 100 bits. Happy new year. My favorite green man. Keep fighting the good fight. Cheers. Thanks bunch, man Everything is so quiet. Is it? Oh um Yeah, I've got like desktop audio negative 20 game capture like negative 36 Waterball for all Make the same mistakes twice Because I chose to I was kind of experimenting this time around. I wanted to know if it was worth pushing the 40 HP to 50 In sacrifice of 10 points in skill while also trying to rush and not level as much as I usually do and The lack of damage is very clear I haven't actually got the final upgrade for my weapon as well But I still think I can beat This guy drops bullets. Oh, not him the ooty skeleton by the gate. Alrighty then I like the idea that they probably added that specifically because people Oh, this is probably not what they meant Wouldn't have to farm as much and it's just like How about you just remove it? Oh, is these is this? This is gross. Oh my god. You're right. He does neat Molar in the game louder than you. Oh boy. Do I want to mess with my life? Oh, there we go. That's louder, isn't it? I would presume so I don't want to blow your eardrums out. That's the thing like whenever I turn the microphone off tends to be Shattering It's only just like for five hours later quietly Yes, get crippled horsemen. He says all I was doing was spamming move and it's just like it locked me in Not cool. Oh, it's the the one that she looks at once in a while though It's um You should be able to find it Good luck, sir. He gets quality options on the ground He's in phase two, but I've lost half my health. So this is going to be a close one guys Though this is the best part of the soundtrack. So let's chill with me. Thank you.  I was really going for a stagger there.  I got nothing I don't even think that one was intentional. I think that just happened. That was Ludwig's best prince Sure, you have to understand many of us have this Tism and your deadpan delivery short circuits are Tismi brains Oh, well, he's gone. So too late, buddy um I find it literally running ghosts am two bits You just made a respect for how you handled adversity in the black on rent towards the end from showing him that it doesn't matter if you're broke because He's exquisite at us hasn't watched pursuit of happiness with will smith and you've got an expensive gaming pc I don't like you lost me I got no idea I Feel sorry for the camera and the Ludwig fight It doesn't have any clue what it's supposed to do Ludwig's second phase is so much better than the first. It's not fair. No don't spaz out. I don't like that move I don't understand how I haven't gotten a stagger I've smashed Ludwig to pieces Um, I'll help you out here with this But what won't play through did you guys still call it a good game more than a lot weeks? So hats off Um, I think bloodborne is fantastic.  I just have lots of issues with it He played red dead redemption two thoughts on the story and characters favorite least favorite character Objectively one of the best written games ever made play at long man, please. Well, I mean, I have pretty favorable opinion on red dead redemption two Um, I do think that game's really good.   Be trouble. I'm just nothing at all Please let me heal. Okay.  I think Like that's really low damage. I just beat him with I know it was 13 blood vials. That's not so bad I don't know like I'm not good at a lot of things in the souls born stuff But like I feel like I did well in that fight And this is like my favorite experience with these from software games like this This is why I fucking love these games. That's some peatism Really it's so engaging like mechanically and then the soundtrack. Oh Oh Yeah You have achieved gamer. Yay Look, it was a long journey. All right.  I've just got some extra blood vials. I'm gonna go try him again.  Have you played it? I can see why some from soft veterans say it's too easy. I've not played it. I need to um Yeah, I think as far as I know You've played Sakura, right? I like it, but I didn't beat it so I don't know if that's a rousing endorsement Always yelling ludwig Yeah, maybe I'll play it one day. Who knows? He does yell a lot See like the audio is coming through on the stream, but my tv is uh On two volume and I can still hear the screaming Wow Chill And it's like a weird sound as well that kind of doesn't come through the speakers very well Like it almost feels like the speakers are straining to get it out So that's some that's some good game good audio design there. It is pretty scary. So I'm struggling with this This first phase really difficult Yeah, he's um That first phase is a tough one. Uh, I feel like Whenever I'm beating him It's because of the amount of times on my lifetime that I've played him and I get a bit of muscle memory back on When to dodge and stuff I used to hate him a lot more, but it might be because of my health there like He can some of his moves deal a shit ton of damage Also, it's locking on to lack his bellard button, which is not super helpful Yeah, the unless the thing and the problem with bloodbun's lock-on system There's just a couple things about it that don't quite work. I've been even like look at how little help I've taken Yeah, I know Guys I had a roommate buy this on my ps4 forever ago. He's gone But bloodbun remains waiting watching no the long streams it. I guess I need to play it. Yeah, go for it A very unique game as many would probably say Every time I try and jump Yeah, he got me it's over.  We're just like Yeah I'm not sure if I my brain is up to it. I think I'm uh, I think I might call it there. I'm super tired You know, that's probably a good idea actually. I might do the same um I've either replayed.  Um, apparently gta 6 will have one protagonist to his female Will they fall into the go-woke go broke trap or avoid it? My money is on the former Okay I mean Just because gta did a female protagonist before No, so they actually did an interview in 2013 I remember this where they said like we're not interested in doing female protagonists Because grand theft f5 had three and people like well, why isn't there a woman? They just said we're not interested Uh, which is a perfectly fine response Um, if they've changed their mind, that's also not a problem like anything can work um And I get the impression that Sadie Adler from Red Dead Redemption 2 may have pushed them towards the idea that you can make it work um Because Sadie Adler, I do like her so if they did somebody like her or you know and plus well I guess the interesting thing with with rock star is that um Dan Hauser who wrote a lot of the games has left So I'm curious whether or not the tone of like rock star Remains without him writing the scripts So I I wonder Because all the houses are gone. Yeah, you just I think Sam Hauser's still there, but he's producer So I'm not sure what that means in terms of the direct contribution to like the story um I hear rumors that Six is going to be Vice City, but also South America Um, but I'm not sure how true that is. I'm not sure if they'd want to do a map that splits into two locations like it's probably though Oh, it'd be really cool if they did like Southern Miami Southern Florida and also like Cuba or the the caribbean and I don't know trafficking drugs like around that area that could be cool As a as a story But yeah, that's my answer. I don't care if there's a woman in it. Yeah another way um Bloodborne's biggest flaws are the blood vials the estus flats from DS1 is the best healing mechanic of all these games and of course the fps Those are two major ones. Yeah, I'd say the bosses. There's no way I could ignore that many bad bosses like that's significant Bloodborne strengths are the coolest weapons And cool is Sure, uh, great horror atmosphere. Sure great lore Terrific boss fights. I mean there are terrific boss fights Pity about how many there are may the good don't guide your way and you too, sir Is co-op possible with bloodborne slash Dark Souls mods? That'll be an answer for google to to give you because I really I'm not sure these days of what the potential for Multiplayer is I'm pretty sure you can do it with all of Dark Souls 3 So that's something to consider I'm really happy with the meme potential the memes that people are doing from that comic Let me send you one It was said to be during the stream Um, but yeah, I think we'll we'll stop it there. It's been it's been a fun one Um Metal myself and ring will race bloodborne with the cane at some point That is our promise. Okay at some point. Got it on that time. Yeah, but soon soon ish sometime. Um, you know Yeah, yeah, I'm uh looking forward to like I'm probably gonna beat Ludwig though off. Um, like offline Well, did you not hear that phrasing? I'm gonna beat Ludwig off If that's what it takes he does spew out white stuff every once in a while That's true. Um, uh, I'm probably gonna beat him in my own time and then try and well often of cost That might be might do a stream again of just me trying to do all the hunters that might be That might be uh, some good memes. Hmm But uh, yeah, that's good. What are the bosses you hate? Uh, you know what? We'll answer that I think they're in the other bloodborne thoughts we've done. So, um, the last one was asked for me about gimpie about the gimpie gimpie I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. Yeah, sorry All right, then. Um, it's been fun all we'll catch you around Toodalipip, cheerio. Catch you all later guys


Welcome once again to the breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. Our second conversation this morning is going to be moving to the power sector. This of course is a big concern for Nigeria and Nigerians in general. And every government of course that has come into power in the last couple of years, last couple of decades actually, you know, has made similar promises about fixing the energy sector and giving Nigerians a better, you know, a level of power supply. We're going to be joined this morning by Mr. George Etomi, who's a director at Echo Disco to have a, you know, very broad conversation about this. Mr. Etomi, good morning. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. My pleasure. And compliments of the season. Same to you. Thanks for making our time to speak with us this morning. So the conversations on the power sector, you know, I believe are in, you know, numerous directions. There's a lot of people who have shared their own analysis and of course if you look online, you would see different write-ups, you know, pretty much saying, you know, sometimes the same thing, sometimes a totally different, you know, thing.  Good morning. And thanks again for having me. The power sector privatization I've always said is often wrongly compared with the telecoms privatization. And the reason is very simple. In the case of telecoms, you were actually starting companies on a green field platform. In other words, you did not take the old nitel and then you, you then try to, to privatize it and make it work within its old existing structure. About the same time, the new technology came in and we had the mobile telephony. So that was how that privatization realized its objectives in a very short time. But in the case of the power sector, you're actually taking the existing, what was there before and you're seeking to rejig it. It was always, or it is always going to be a daunting task because you're looking at a sector that was lightly neglected for nearly 60 years of our independence. And you're, like you correctly said, everybody talks about how best to make it work. But you do not go to the fundamentals of a problem. One of the biggest challenges in the sector today is the liquidity issue. Because the product at the beginning of the privatization was designed to be sold at market value, but then through political considerations and other considerations, the regulator made the purchasers of the power sell at below the cost. And anytime you sell a product below its costs, they're going to have a problem. It means in the first place the entire sector is cash strapped, which is the reason the government has been doing this subsidy gain. And if you ask me, it's been very inefficient. It's inefficient for power, inefficient for petroleum, but power is a very emotional subject and because it directly impacts on the happiness of people, the policy and government tend to pander to it as opposed to going to the fundamentals, dealing with it. And then you begin to climb up slowly. It's like somebody who's been going downhill. You can't come up if you don't get to the bottom before it starts climbing back up. So we lost a little bit of time from the advent of this privatization in 2013 when we just did into all the things that were expected to be done under the multi-year tariff order so that tariffs could begin to slowly assume their true position. I have always postulated and because I am in the game now, I know that if Nigerians see electricity, they will pay for it. So at times you do not understand why the subsidies game is played the way it is being played and what is wrong with the subsidy game is that you do not expect investors who want to put in hard money in return for profit to now be the ones to subsidize the sector. This has been the mismatch, but that's like a year ago, up to a year ago. During this period, the presidential power initiative, the central bank intervention, they finally brought the sector together, which was lacking before and we now are beginning to see an alignment between generation, transmission and distribution. That alignment was never there before because what feeds the entire sector is the money collected by the distribution companies, which is then sent down the value chain to lubricate as it were evaluated. But as I told you, if that money, for example, if the product costs $50,000 and you say distribution companies don't sell for more than $30,000, the problem we instantly have is that whatever money is sent through that value chain isn't going to be sufficient to address the problems. And one of the biggest problems is the cost of gas. The cost of gas is roughly 60% of the power components if we're talking about the thermal plants. All right, Mr. Judge, we're going to get back to you, but at this point, we need to bring in Afalabi Akiro Gundey. Good morning, Mr. Afalabi Akiro Gundey. It's good to have you join us. Can you hear me? Hello, Mr. Afalabi. I'm sure we'll see. Yes, good afternoon. I can hear you clearly. All right, it's good to have you join the conversation. We're looking at the past sector. Of course, we're costing the year down. I mean, a few more days we're going to be talking about 2022. But let's talk about our capacity and generation. As a country and with the plants that we have, we have the capacity to at least generate about 12,522 megawatts. But currently, we're still grappling with 4,000 for a population of over 211 million. That's according to the data from the United Nations. How do you think that we're faring as a giant of Africa in terms of power generation? I think power generation is just one part of the problem. The problem is actually an integrated one. It's one that needs to be solved end to end. Because for generation, as far as we know, we have about 13 gigawatts. That's 13,000 megawatts. Transmission, we can take between 5 gigawatts and 7 gigawatts. Distribution is where it challenges, which is basically doing anything between 3 and 4 or 5 gigawatts, depending on what's happening within the disco systems. So you find out that at various ends of the power network, there are different capacities. So which was one of the reasons why the cement deal was struck a few years ago to unblock that transmission end, make it pretty much as much as from the 5 to 7 gigawatts up to the 13, so that you can transmit, you can generate 13, transmit 13, and then find a way to unblock the challenges downstream at the discos to enable them then to distribute that 13, such that we can then move from the 3 to 4 gigawatts we are distributing at the disco end to the 13. But the challenge also then still remains that even at the disco's end, they are basically losing 40% of what they are getting. So if they are getting 5 gigawatts, 4 gigawatts, they are losing as much as 30, 40% of that to key see and see losses, acquisitions, connections, commercial losses, and those are the challenges which they have, so such that even if you end up transmitting and generating all of that power down to the discos, if we don't solve the problem the discos have, we will still not solve the problem. So which is why I say that the challenge is an age to end challenge. It's something that needs to be solved with an integrated manner. Okay, Georgia told me, I believe that we can have these discussions and address the challenges on both the transmission, the generation, and distribution sectors individually and they all have their own individual challenges. I've spoken extensively with distribution companies and their representatives and they share a lot of challenges that they have, but I want us to focus a little bit on the distribution aspect of it.  Do you think that there was a challenge with regards infrastructure for distribution companies and that is still one of the problems that we are facing in this whole power sector? No, I agree with what Afolabi said. You cannot isolate the various segments of the value chain and deal with them. You must deal with them holistically, otherwise you would, you would be making, you'll have leakages through any member of the value chain. But to your direct question, the distribution companies make enough investment. You need to understand how the sector works.  It needs to be approved by the regulator because whatever money you spend on capital projects must reflect in the tariffs and because the government wants to keep tariffs artificially down, that investment will not be approved. And if you go make an investment that's not approved, it's like throwing water down the drain. That's not what investors are there for. And most of the distribution companies cried about this because this was not the understanding at the beginning. But because tariffs had to be paid low, investment to necessarily had to be paid low. But that's, as I've told you, is changed now in recent months because we're finally having these alignment talks and all these things have been unlocked. And that also includes the segment initiated. So right now, the keepers of distribution companies has recently been approved. I know that for sure. And they are going to be massive investments in improving. I wonder the distribution facilities we're talking about here. You're looking at your feeders. You're looking at your transformers. You're looking at metering your customers down the line. These are the things that actually have caused the high losses, as all of you was talking about. If you begin to address them, which we will, then the transmission and needs to also be unlocked because at times, the vagaries of the grid system, because you know, we have a central grid cell, the vagaries of that system is such that if there is a difficulty in one end of the transmission chain, it affects everybody else. For example, the power of tick in one of the segments of the distribution area is not working. They can ask you who is not being connected with the problem to drop your load so that you can balance the grid, which is why you have this on off stuff that we see. That's not to do with distribution companies is transmission. So we need to come up with a long term plan for transmission. I agree that the cements then will help, but it really needs to get on board as quickly as possible. On the generation side, the problems are far less. It's just a strict question of, is there gas? Because there's a gas issue as well. If the generating companies don't have gas, they cannot generate. And at times, transmission says that I'm unable to transmit because I don't have the power from the generating companies. So it's a holistic solution. I understand why people concentrate on distribution companies. And that's because they're the face of the industry. They collect the money and there's nobody else you can hold about them. But the truth is that we must begin to look at everything holistically. And I quickly add that that process has started. And I believe that from next year, we will begin to see the benefits of this alignment, which should have been there if you ask me at least seven years ago. Okay. So let's also get back, Mr. Falavi, back online. It's okay that you said that we can totally just blame it on the generation. But the discourse have constantly made arguments that they cannot give what they don't have. And it's totally dependent because they're not in control of what is being generated. And so what is given to them is what they have to distribute. I want to find out from you, is this argument very valid, that the problem is not entirely, as much as we agree that, yes, the discourse have their own challenges as well as the, you know, other value chain. But the problem is totally on the generation. The problem is what is concentrated. But the three challenges remain. For example, you can do pretty much 40% more. The whole system today can support at least 40 to 60% more than what is doing right now if we sort out our discourse. Because right now you have situations where the discourse actually turns away power. That is given to them. Once they find out that they may not be able to actually generate revenue from this power, they turn back that power to the discourse. And so if you find a mixed quest to create a situation where those discourse can actually accept that power, the support within their system, of course, that will be a new, difficult improvement immediately. But as it is to today, the generation can generate more power than the discourse can, that the transmission system can take. The transmission system can transmit more power than the discourse can take. So you have a situation where the weakest link, so to speak, where every end of our system is weak. But the weakest link now is the discourse. Because right now, if you are using, if you are using 40% of every kilowatt that is coming into your system, it's going to be difficult for you to actually perform. So as of today, the weakest link is now, but the challenge is that it is an integrated channel. It needs to be looked at. Okay. Well, Ms. I told me, do you agree that the weakest link is the discourse? And I also read an article yesterday that says here, the Transmission Company of Nigeria is 100% owned and managed by the federal government of Nigeria. It is the weakest link in the Nigerian electricity network. So, Ms. I told me, do you agree with Ms. Afolabi that the discourse are the weakest link? I would have thought that was obvious. I don't agree with Afolabi and thought that the discourse are the weakest link. There's so much that goes into the grid balance. That's what I've explained before. Take a code discourse, for example, we require more power. We ask for it, but frequently we are told by the Transmission Company to drop look for whatever reason they may want to load dropped. So that's not correct. The only way discourse can make money is if they give power. So why would you not give the power? The reason some discourse reject power is because, as I mentioned earlier, it goes to their ATC and C losses. To balance the grid, TCN can ask, take power to an area in your franchise area. That's not giving you generating revenue. And you tell them, look, I don't want it there. Give it to me in Ekoi or give it to me in Leki, where I know I'll get my money. But to balance the grid, they must distribute that power. That's where the rejection I thought I was talking about is coming from. But these realignments like actually is going on now and that we're beginning to slowly see the need in the value to unlock what we have currently. If you leave it the way it is, and you simply just measure disco performance from reduction of ATC and C losses, we will miss the point. The point is that investments will require to get you power. Get power to the people needs to be made. And it's not going to be made if the tariff is not right. So it's all connected. I don't agree at all that the weakest link is the disco. In any case, I really want to get away from this blame game era. We just need to find ourselves on the path to solution. And like I said, this has started about a year ago through this process, where all the key players in the various segments of the sector are beginning to speak to one another. And we can begin to unlock these problems. All right. I think we'll have to wrap up here. In a different conversation, I hope that we can speak with you both again and get to expand further on what the Siemens deal is all about and what it hopes to achieve. But for now, I would say goodbye. Thank you very much. George Tomi is the director at Echo Disco. And of course, Mr. Foulabi, Akin Rubundi, thank you so much for your time this morning and for speaking with us. Thank you. All right. And yes, that's what we have for you on the breakfast this morning, just a little bit on the power sector and its challenges and where we're moving, how we're moving forward. If you missed out on any of the conversations, remember where to catch up. It's simply a plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram. Same with our YouTube channel and the plus TV Africa lifestyle also on YouTube. I am Osawa Gie, Ogboma. And I am Messi Boko. You'll have a great, great day.


A bod yda, a diolch am ymuno gyda fi y borema. Mae talio'r ledled Cymru yn rhanweineb i pwysau cynnyddol wrth i gos debyw barhau i gordi. Mae'r Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud popeth o fewn yn gallu ni'ch cefnogi chi yngwineb cynni. I know families across Wales are facing continued pressure from rising costs as a Government we are doing everything within our control to support you through this cost of living crisis. Rwy'n gwybod ffawr i eni gwyfalwyr am y fyrwyr o boboi ym plederu ac rwy'n rwymo'i chi nad ylai coste byw fod yn rwyster i ddysgu ac i dakl o'r rwystre hwnnw. Mae gallu ad y heiad fel Llywodraeth dyfodol plentyn neu berson i fangnid i'n cwm y rhiant. It's a concerning time for parents, carers and students of all ages and my commitment to you is that living costs should never be a barrier to learning and to tackle those barriers and that it should be ability and aspiration that should determine a child or young person's future not parental income. We are in favour of school uniforms but we are not in favour of costly school uniforms. So today I am publishing new school uniform guidance and asking schools to review their school uniform policies to make school uniforms as cheap as possible. The new guidance makes it clearer for schools and to school governors what actions they should take to keep costs down. I'd like the reviews to be undertaken as soon as possible and schools will wish to look at transitional arrangements so that families can benefit from a lower cost uniform as soon as possible. This would mean removing or limiting the use of logos on uniforms. Respondent to the recent school uniform guidance consultation supported having a uniform but the majority agreed that logos should not be required. Nearly 90% of respondents also felt that schools should avoid single supplier arrangements. I know most schools are already doing everything they can to keep costs down for families however we still see too many cases where families have had no choice but to buy expensive uniforms. School uniforms help unite a school community and limit peer pressure to wear certain clothes. However it's important that uniforms do not add further to the worries of families. The consultation also showed almost universal support that schools should operate a uniform exchange or recycling scheme. The new guidance calls for arrangements to be in place so that second hand school uniforms are available for parents and carers. I recently visited St Michael's Catholic Primary School in Pontypridd to see first hand their school uniform recycling and exchange scheme in operation. It was really good to hear how parents and carers within the school community have responded positively to donating school uniform but no longer fits their children. Many schools across Wales of course are already running recycling and exchange schemes and the new guidance builds on this fantastic work. I also want to take this opportunity to remind families about our schools essentials grant. This is the most generous scheme of its kind in the UK. For example an eligible family with a child going into year 7 in September would receive £200 to purchase school uniform and equipment and I'd encourage people to find out if they're eligible for the scheme. Money should never be a barrier to education at any level. Children and young people won't learn if they're hungry. That's why we've extended access to free school meals during holidays and that's why I'm pleased also to announce today I'll be extending support for free school meals provision during the May half term for further education students. We estimate this will support almost 4,000 learners. The cost of living crisis has hit learners at all levels including higher education students. Any long term cost of higher education should not put anyone off studying at university. Earlier this year the UK government introduced new student finance repayment arrangements. Though Wales's repayment system has historically been aligned to England, my view is that the new English system is not a good deal. England's reforms benefit the highest earners and worsen the position for middle and lower earning graduates. Women are also disproportionately affected. We certainly shouldn't be asking teachers, nurses and social workers to pay more while the very highest earners pay less. I can therefore announce today that we will not move to the system adopted in England but will retain the current system in Wales. This means Welsh graduates will continue to repay loans under the 30 year repayment period, not England's 40 year repayment period. Everyone deserves access to education. I want to pull down the barriers and give children and young people the happy education experience they deserve. Bethan Lewis, BBC Wales Y Llywodraeth, allwch chi hefyd atib y cwestiynau yn gyma gysgol ychydig? Yn rwy'n credu chi'n fyddech chi'n credu o'r skydd o'r cyfrifrau hwnnw? Criwch chi'n credu bod y cwestiynau hyn yn gwahanol am golygu hwnnw? should our school have uniforms and I think that they have clear benefits in terms of the cohesion on a community or sense of identity for specific school. Logos can play a part in that. What the guidance is very clear about where schools do select, do elect or have a logo should be minimised, and it should not be compulsory. So there should be school uniform available to young people who have Co yes is to buy Cyngoron ddod o'r logo yn ystyried, ac yn cael i'n gweithio'n gweithio, rwy'n gweithio'r opeth o'r ffaith i'n gweithio'r pwysig ysgolion o'r ddiweddau gwahanol a'r ffordd i'r byw yn dweuddiol. Mae e'n buysig bod ysgolion a folysig gwyscasgola bod gwyscasgola'n arbennwyr o'r busig, o'r sydd wedi'u hwnnw i'n an diff cymrydedd ysgol. Mae hefyd yn buysig o'r an profiad haffa li'n pobl i fenglu yn ysgolion i. rhan o hynny, ond beth mae'r cynllawiau heddiw'n dweud yw bod angen gwyscasgol sydd ddim yn cynnwys logo hefyd, y bydd pobl yn gallu dewis prynu gwyscasgol mewn amry o lefydd a'r gyfer y cyllideb sydd yn gweithio ddyn nhw. Ro ma heddiw teachers perspective, who might be dealing with a much smaller budget, dealing with the after effects of Covid, maybe on the verge of starting the exam period as well. Is this just going to be seen as tinkering and potentially undermining the uniform policy, which is often closely related to the discipline policy? I don't think that is the reaction that we've seen so far. I very much hope it isn't the reaction. This is an important step to make the cost of the school day more affordable for families at a time of significant cost of living pressures. In my experience, there isn't a school in Wales which isn't doing its best to find opportunities of reducing the costs of the school day. This focuses on the school uniform and it asks heads to review the policy with the governing bodies and to take account of the guidance that I'm issuing today. There will be schools that will bring in transition periods and those practical things which need to happen on the ground, which suit the arrangements in that particular school, but the message from the guidance is very clear that every school should be doing everything it can to make the school uniform as affordable as possible for as many young people as possible. And alongside that, of course, in Wales we have the school essentials grant, which is supporting around 98,000 young people in Wales with the cost of their school uniforms. And I'd encourage anyone who feels they may be eligible for that to make contact with their local authority. Dan Devon. Thank you Minister. Good morning. Just to pick up on a point that you made a little bit earlier regarding still having value in school uniforms, it is not the logical conclusion, albeit further down the line, for school uniforms to be done away with entirely. Is it not the case that this is the beginning of the end, if you will, of a school uniform? Well, I don't think it is at all. I mean I'm very clear and I said during the speech that I think school uniforms are a good thing, but costly school uniforms are not a good thing. There are real benefits to a school uniform in terms of that sense of identity within the school, that sense of a school community. It reduces the peer pressure between pupils. It also means that that pressure isn't there to be looking at sort of branded clothes, very expensive clothes, which some young people will be able to afford and others will not. So I think uniform has a very important role to play, but the point of the guidance today is to make sure that uniforms are as affordable as possible. Rwy'n bwysig bod ysgolion a folysi gweisg ysgol a hefyd bod gweisg ysgol yn chwarae rhan bwysig o rhan creu hynna nieth yr ysgol, sy'n wir o gymuned yr ysgol.  Can I also get the answer to this next question in Welsh in English as well? I'll be appreciative. Moving, albeit outside of your brief, but to an important topic nonetheless, the British Association of Social Workers has told us that children like Logan Mwangi and Lola James were failed by the system. Do you agree with that assessment? Well, those are very, very tragic situations that you're referring to in your question, and the families of those young people are very much in our thoughts. We'll wait for the outcome of the child practice review. We'll look carefully at all the findings and recommendations, which that makes. As you will know, we are already looking at ambitious transformation of children's services in Wales based on independent research and evaluation, and we will be taking the results of the child practice review into account in that important context. Mae'r eich rhaifftech i'n sôn y cwestiwn hefyd i'n rhaid dydynol o odryst ac mae'r teulu o ddyn yn meddwl i'n ei fel y golyio o'r fel Llywodraeth. Newn i aros i wel byddwch anlyniad y child practice review, a byddwn i'n edrych yn ofalis iawn ar hyn bydd yr adylagied yn argymell. Felly chi'n gwybod mae ganddon i waith eisoes i draus newydd mewn ffordd i chelgeisio iawn gwasanaethau plant yng Nghymru, i'n selu edrych ar ddystiolaeth a chyngor anu bynol, a byddwn i'n edrych ar ganddlau niadau'r review yng Nghyrraestyn hwnnw. Abu wytig. Morning Minister. Obviously, talking about uniforms, you're talking about the cost of living crisis, and schools are also stuck in the cost of living crisis. A lot of heads are saying they don't have very much money. They're cutting staff, they're cutting teachers, they're cutting subjects. Is the fact that teachers are being made redundant, not the clearest sign that we could have, that schools are being underfunded now? Well Abu, there are pressures, very real pressures in schools as you say. One of the pressures which we've been talking about recently are the new pressures from the pay settlement. Obviously we've provided funding in order to address that, but there are a range of other pressures from inflation and cost of living which schools are facing. Our commitment as a government has been, and continues to be, that within the very, very real constraints of the budget that we have here in Wales, that we will prioritise education and we have done that. You will also know that in my own budget I've been able to maintain the funding which we provide to schools to deal with the aftermath in schools of Covid which is still a very real experience in schools right across Wales and that we've also increased the funding available through people development grants so finding as many ways as we can to put additional funding into school budgets but there are, as you say, very real pressures in schools certainly. So you mentioned the pay settlement. Governors in one LEA, the Vale and a union in another LEA in the RCT say that they don't believe that schools have yet got that money to cover the pay increase that was awarded at the end of the strike. Can you explain when that money will be coming to schools and whether it's already been given to LEAs? So I think from memory, the day in which I saw the press coverage of the response of Governors I think in the Vale, I think on that occasion, as it happens on that day we had already sent an indication to local authorities of the additional funding that we, as a Government, are providing to authorities in order to meet those pay pressures. So just to confirm, so all 22 LEAs now have that money and that money is ring-fenced and will definitely go to schools? The money has been provided to local authorities or has been notified to local authorities. I can't quite remember where we are on the payment chain if you like but local authorities will know now what additional funding Welsh Government has provided to them for that purpose. And that will definitely go to schools, they can't use it for anything else. It's been provided to local authorities and local authorities have committed to use that to fund the pay pressures. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr, thank you.