Welcome to our public librarianship Q&A with advisors. Today's workshop is part of our pathway series introducing a different MLIS career pathways, where you'll get an insight perspective from instructors who have worked in specific fields. Today, we'll be talking about skill sets that prepare students for work in public libraries. Let's get started with the agenda. Today's agenda consists of an overview of the public librarianship pathway, which courses students can consider, how students use the skill set, and then we'll make faculty with expertise in this area who have made themselves available to answer your questions. What is public librarian? Well, public librarian roles are diverse and can include a rainbow of roles such as circulation, services, readers advisor, children's storyteller, a specialist, lab makerspace, or many rainbow. Here's a list of core theory and knowledge that students pursuing the pathway would benefit from in building a career in this area such as ability to understand, analyze and solve problems, strong public service orientation, a people person, ability to learn quickly, adapt to new situations, and thrive in a fast paced environment. Foundational recommended courses such as Info 275, library services for racially and ethically, sorry, diverse communities, and Info 286, interpersonal communication skills for librarians, or a couple of courses. There are more foundational courses along with seminar topics listed on the website, which is highlighted. Internships are not required, but it is a great way to gain professional experience. Now I'll turn it over to Sheila. Thanks, Taryn. So why public librarianship? According to our exit surveys of recently graduated students, the public librarianship pathway within the MLIS is the most popular career pathway followed by high school students, and about 43% of our graduating students do work in public libraries. So it's great that Taryn highlighted Info 275 and Info 286 from the pathway list of recommended electives because diversity and communication skills were found to be among the most commonly listed skills in demand for this pathway among 400 job announcements, which were recently analyzed in the 2022 MLIS Skills at Work Report published by our school. In the jobs report, you will also see that the jobs were analyzed both by job function and by library type. So using this tool, it's a great idea to map the skills listed for your own targeted positions to the electives offered here at iSchool and keeping an eye on the trends in public librarianship by attending workshops like this, going to conferences and taking part in the student groups and professional activities provided by iSchool. Now, you could keep a running list in your iSchool student success planner of trends that you've observed from the LIS literature, conferences, social media platforms, professional organizations that you're part of, classes, internships, and volunteering that you've done. Now, here were a few top trends that were highlighted in a quick literature search that I conducted. So keep your running list of trends in mind when mapping out your electives so that you're in step with current job trends. Other great resources that the iSchool has to offer include the career environments pages with curated information for job seekers specific to public librarianship. Now, our community profile series and our alumni career spotlights and LinkedIn are all great ways that you can search for fantastic new contacts to reach out to to do informational interviewing in this area. And we talked about this strategy in our previous Lunch and Learn workshops, but even early in your program, you can create job alerts on sites such as Indeed or other job search aggregators with key words so that you can keep one eye on the types of positions and public librarianship settings that are available in your area. Here's an example from the California Library Association's job site. And you can also regularly try our SJSU handshake database, which you all have access to through your 1.SJSU accounts. All of the job announcements that come into iSchool are directed over to SJSU handshake. This database is available to all iSchool students and alumni. You have access to this for job searching, so you should make available this service. There are also other recommended job sites in our career development resource on the iSchool website. Read those sample job descriptions to keep track of the knowledge, skills, and abilities listed in your targeted position types. Finally, don't forget to tap into all the great career supports that iSchool has put into place for MLIS students. Now, a good way to organize your efforts is to make use of the career planning checklist, which is located inside your student success planner. And I just have a few of these ideas highlighted on the slide for you. Now, you have the opportunity to hear some great tips and recommendations from experts in this pathway. iSchool's public librarianship pathway advisors, they are here and they will first introduce themselves and let you know a little bit about their background in this pathway, the skills and topics that they feel are timely, as well as a little bit about the courses they teach from the pathway. And then we will move to open up to the panel for Q&A with all of the panelists. So right now, we're going to start off with Professor Ruth Barefoot and go for it. You should be ready with your camera. Your mic is working all good. I'll turn it over to Ruth. Well, hello, everyone. I have been teaching since 2014 and have seen such a diverse set of students. And that is very heartening for the public library sector because the communities are getting more and more dynamic, more and more demanding. We have to do so much more with our dollars. And in some cases, we have no dollars to solve problems. So we have to be very, very creative. And in my two courses that I teach, I am really pounding away at that, that you have to be a real thinker. When you leave my course and when you leave this school, you want to be not just a problem solver, but also a visionary, a sage, especially in these times where you see such amazing issues that often a public library is really in a position to impact. And if there's one thing that I have seen, librarians that are hired, new librarians, existing librarians, they are in positions to be real leaders in the community. So I pack my courses with a lot of pieces that I feel are very important. But leading change is one of the biggies. I remember Linda Main talking to me about change management back in 2013 and even earlier. And I thought, oh, that sounds very interesting. And would you teach it? She had asked. And we started out as a three, three credit course. And we turned it into a one credit because there's just so much really to have some of the change chops that you want. You want it integrated into everything else you're doing. So you have to be real fearless in your service development. A lot of times you're you're developing a brand new service, a brand new program or program set, a series, and you're launching it and it can be very outdated and nothing flat because the community is is moving so fast. So you really have to you have to kind of go with the flow. You want to be a flexible person in public libraries. You want to be someone that is already always scanning, scanning the environment and and actually having fun doing it. Because the community also is watching and evaluating. And when they see fun, they're more likely to jump on board as well. Also, in my courses, I'm really focused on not just rural and middle, middle sized library librarians and library management, but also the large systems. And so anything from soup to nuts, I really want to have something scalable so that you understand that you can scale something really small, organize, say a pilot and then share with your your neighbors, let's say in a county or in a state. So you can or you know, nationally or sometimes it's internationally. So it's really kind of cool. So I just wanted to say a little bit of about that just, you know, there's there's all sorts of stuff. I'm really looking forward to your to the Q&A at the end and hopefully button down a lot of a lot of your questions that way. Thank you. Thank you so much. Dr. Bernier, you're next. Well, thank you Sheila and Taryn both for a very efficient, good introduction to the work that we represent in public libraries. I want to shout out to a current student of mine, Jax, I see him in the participant attendee list. So shout out to Jax. My background includes 14 years of direct public library service. I started out in a very large system as a adult literacy program coordinator where I would move all around town setting up adult literacy programs. I quickly became a trainer so that I was helping volunteers learn what they needed to do in order to be effective tutors. I interviewed and set up pairs of students and tutors so that adults who somehow got to be adults without learning to read were able to do that. And that was very wonderful work, but it also got me an opportunity to see the entirety of this library system. I set up programs all over town and so I got to meet branch staff, became familiar with facilities. It was a really good experience and I did that for four years at the beginning of my librarianship career. Then I moved into young adult work, which really impacted me for the rest of my entire career. Actually, I was observing how the city was responding to or not responding to the issues of young people in the aftermath of what became known as the Rodney King rebellion in the early 1990s in Los Angeles. And I was not happy with the way even the library was responded. So it gave me a great deal of enthusiasm and energy to bring some change to that system. And I wound up actually, before too long, setting up designing the entire service plan and the space plan for what became the very first purpose built space for young people or teenagers in the LA Central Public Library, known as Teenscape. And that has had a very long and deep influence on libraries all over the country as a consequence of that. So that all came as one stream. And then I moved up to the Oakland area and I was recruited to start a young adult services department for the Oakland Public Library, where I hired, trained, supervised, managed and budgeted for a staff of seven professionals and a couple of paraprofessionals. And we started the young adult services department at the Oakland Public Library. They didn't have one before. So I've had an opportunity to be innovative in a lot of different ways across my public library career. And I have a lot of things to share as you begin to think about that. One thing I did want to put a pin in before we move on to Dr. Stevens. I want to be very clear about differentiating the difference as you move out into the job market. Between a civil service examination and a job interview. And maybe we can talk more about that in Q&A. So that's it for me for right now. And I also look forward to the Q&A and Dr. Stevens. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And Dr. Badir, I did not know that you did similar things to what I did in my public library career with training. And I actually did some moving around in the system to branch to branch. Meeting with staff and helping them learn things. And my focus was on the internet. That was very interesting. Thank you for that. I am thrilled to be here. And I too appreciated the introduction and Professor Barefoot's words. So cool. I want to say just a couple of things about Info 200. I'll say a little bit more about the hyperlinked library. And then I'll just do a quick advice type thing. Probably the folks joining us today have taken Info 200 or in it right now or will be taking it. It is a core class. So everybody will have the same material resources, etc. If you are interested in public libraries, one of the things you can do in information communities is choose a information community to study that may be mostly or always or probably served by public libraries. And that might be any number of information communities. I want to talk a bit more about the hyperlinked library. That is a class I have taught here since I started in 2011. It had a different name. I think it was participatory service and something back then. And then we changed it to really what it should have been called was the hyperlinked library. And I like to say that it is a thank you, Skye. I like to say that the hyperlinked library is a class in humanism. Masquerading is a technology class. I get you all in and then we start talking about how we help each other and how we help people be the best they can possibly be. One of the things we do is we explore probably very similar to Professor Barefoot. All like a lot of the stuff going on currently in public libraries. And I will say we probably are a little bit public library heavy in the hyperlinked library. But we have many opportunities for you to find your way through the material. And one of the things we do is choose your own adventure type things. For example, there's a week where you could focus on the hyperlinked public library or the hyperlinked academic library or any number of environments, museums, galleries, that type of thing as well as issues. I'd like to emphasize service and meeting the needs of people and understanding people and bringing them together, et cetera. The other way that students can customize the class is by using various technologies. And I want to point this out because I think this is an important thing for you all to be able to do is and you don't have to understand every single technology out there, but you should be able to look at one and say, oh, yeah, I did this in the hyperlinked library. So I can learn how this works and do this as well. So for example, I have had students who have, for their class blogging, have done podcasts instead of writing text or video blogging or video or vlogging. Yeah, vlogging, I believe it is. So there are numerous ways to have that experience with technology as well as sort of looking at all of the various modules. We look at things like the power of stories, what's happening in learning space in public libraries and other topics like that. Very quickly, because I'm anxious to get to the Q&A as well, some off-the-cuff advice in no particular order. As part of your coursework, if you are focusing on public libraries, I would suggest looking at classes that are devoted to the user experience, taking a little bit of tech classes, but also taking those classes that give you people skills. For sure, take classes that teach you the ins and outs of designing, learning, programming for people, because that's what we're doing a lot. There's a module in the hyperlinked library called the library as classroom. I really think learning is one of the things we do. Take any and every chance you get to be creative to make something with a technological tool or whatever to express yourself, because every time that we use those creative skills we have that I think kind of pushes us forward into being more creative. Look for opportunities in your coursework to understand the people you want to serve, and that goes back to information communities. That is all the folks, and look for the folks that are underserved or not served at all in the public library setting. Look for ways to learn about networking, and I think this is a nice opportunity, as well as conferences and all the other things that happen, especially around the things that our school does, as well as what it takes to create community partnerships. Finally, the last thing I wrote down here in my notes was any and all, and I guess this is a repeat, any and all creative pursuits. I think is very important, because then you can talk about that in job interviews. So thank you, and I think that's all I have to say. Thank you. That was wonderful. Thank you all three panelists. And now we get the exciting part of getting into your questions for our advisors. So I think it would be great if people would pop their questions into the Q&A instead of having them be both in the chat and the Q&A. So let's go ahead and access the Q&A at the bottom of your control panel for this window. And when you enter your question, it would be great if you can identify which panelists you'd like to ask the question or if you'd like to hear from all the panelists and their perspectives. So go ahead, folks. Don't be shy. While we're waiting for our first typed in question, let me go back to the item that I was raising earlier, because that's really about getting a job and the difference between a civil service examination and a job interview. I remember in my own experience, I did not know the difference. I was prepared for a job interview to show my initiative, my creativity, my enthusiasm, blah, blah, blah. And I didn't fail the civil service exam, but I didn't do very well on it because that's not what I was supposed to be preparing for. And because it's a civil service examination process, the very legal process in which no candidate can get any other information that not every candidate gets. And so the amount of information that you can gain is very limited. And so it's a very important distinction to know the difference between a civil service exam, which is an attempt to get you to demonstrate that you understand the value of policy, that you understand the notion of chain of command, of the importance of communicating up in the chain of command and down in the chain of command, that you understand that you're working within an organization. And if you bring creativity and initiative and all those things that you are excited about doing at the beginning to a civil service exam, you will do like me not very well in your civil service exam. So I want to urge you to be thinking about that. And there isn't very much information that you can even get before, during, or after your civil service exam because again, every piece of that information has to be available to every candidate or it cannot be available to any. It has to be exactly, exactly fair and the same across the board. So just be aware of those two differences. After you pass a civil service exam, we rank somehow typically, and then you'll become available and then invited, depending upon how high up you score, for particular job interviews at particular sites with particular supervisors. And that's where you want to be creative and show taking initiative. And that's where you want to demonstrate all of your portfolio evidence to the degree that it's pertinent. But bringing your portfolio into civil service exam will not help you very much. It will and job interviews, which comes second. That was my point. Thank you. And I see we have a question from Sky. Sky asked this could be for all the panelists for someone like me who has not held a position in the library yet. Do you have any advice for what types of jobs I should look for? If I am not having any success at the libraries near me, I have customer service experience. So would working at the bookstore, for example, be helpful? Or are there any online jobs that might help translate to public librarianship someday? So let's start with Ruth. Do you have any advice for this situation? What a great question hit the ground running. Work with the public as much as possible from any aspect. Something that helps you in an interview. Talk to how you connected, how you were available, how you provided an open conversation with individuals that you were there to teach, to solve, to serve in whatever aspect it was. I have a lot of people that are coming through that have been in either in clothing industry kind of jobs, food service jobs, prison libraries. Just you can't believe how diverse some of these individuals are gaining experience and that will help articulate how they come across in an interview. To me, and I've hired scores over a hundred librarians, I look for people that can connect. I have, I like people that are generous in spirit, that are compassionate in spirit, but not somebody that is going to be, you know, you're going to walk all over them. They have to have an eye to the goal. So you have to really understand what kind of tool belt you're using, whatever organization you're working for and the partners that you're in collaboration with. And so to have kind of an understanding of what kind of tools you can leverage, I hope that that helps you. So be open. Any other panelists want to chime in or add to the discussion on this question? Dr. Stevens. Yeah, hi. That was so, yes, that answer was perfect. And I would just say about the bookstore thing, that could work. I actually, after my undergrad, I worked in a music and video store, which opened the door for me to work in the audio visual department at the public library in Southland, Indiana. I was very lucky. I was into movies. I was into music. And the clothing store, that fits as well. So if you can find a service-oriented position or service-oriented volunteer type thing, where you are working with the public, and I guess I'm repeating a bit of what Professor Barefoot said, that is experience that I think you can help translate into getting in the door at a library. Let me add too, now that Professor Stevens said this, there's really a lot to be said about how we structure our courses, and how we want you to demonstrate to practice to become much more resilient in group projects. A lot. I have had my share of students saying, what in the world? I hate group projects. I've had such bad luck. I don't want to do this. Can I get out of it? Actually, no, because it's so core to my course. I want you to find out how you compromise, how you understand how to work with, in partnership with other individuals. So in this kind of just, I just had to say that about group projects. I would add something. Neither Professor Stevens or Barefoot mentioned, oh yeah, you've got great book experience, because the books don't count. It doesn't matter that much. It's service that counts. It's not the videos or the music or the books, or it's not the content that's on the shelves. It's the degree of service that you're able to provide. I would also endorse the idea of trying to find ways to make small group work thrive. And there's one other idea I had. Oh yeah, consider a field experience, a volunteer experience or internship in a public library. Your work in the private sector will be helpful and useful to you, but librarians are going to want to see commonly some exposure to libraries itself. And it could just be very light, but you want to get some perhaps and look for some field experience to get. Fantastic. Okay, the next question goes to Dr. Stevens. The student has struggled with the core information systems class. I think that's 202, because I don't consider myself a tech whiz. I think taking another tech class like the one you teach is important for me to take. If I took your class, what are some suggestions for taking it and not being anxious about the class? Okay, that's a really good question. Wow, and let me, I'm going to backtrack one second and say the example I use, the music and video store. There aren't music and video stores anymore, really. So yeah, and if you find a bookstore, that's great. There aren't that many. So Steven, this is a good question. And it's totally cool if you are not 100% comfortable with technology. That's one of the things this program offers you a chance to do is to do some things with tech, to make some things, to understand some things, to understand how we might manage technology in public library settings. So if you took, for example, the hyperlinked library, one of the things I always say is you can't break anything. You can't break the WordPress blog that you will be using. You can't mess up whatever because there's usually a way to, if you're recording something to redo it or whatever, and it is perfectly okay to say, I've never done this before. I'm going to try recording a podcast. Let's see what it's like because you will learn from that. And even if you have whatever, you make a mistake, you are still learning. So I would venture to say that the courses that dabble in tech in our program will get you that hands-on experience, as well as a lot of chance to understand how things work and to maybe make some mistakes, but still do well because that should be part of it. And really, that's what we want. I hope that public library managers and admin folks are encouraging people to come in. And yes, if somebody makes a mistake, it's not the end of the world. I hope that's helpful. Very encouraging, fantastic. Okay, I see there was another comment in the chat. It looks like Dr. Bernier has addressed it, but there may be other contributions from other panelists. So the question is wondering if this advice regarding gainful employment also applies to someone who's been out of the workforce for a period of time, for example, raising children, etc. So Dr. Bernier has provided a reply, but I'm wondering if either of the other panelists wanted to chime in or add anything else on to that. One of the other, if no one will, I'll just say one of the things that I suggest that students do at the beginning of their career is take almost any professional appointment, treat it as a one or a two-year internship, a well-paid, rather well-paid internship, and then figure out what the next step would be rather than waiting for that perfect job to come along that may take a lot longer to come along. Get that good year or two in as soon as you can, almost no matter where you can, and then figure out what the next step is. I wonder if others might want to opine about that strategy. I think that's an interesting strategy and probably very well worth considering for many personality types. So you have to figure out what kind of person you are, but you have to understand too that the market thinks differently than it did say 30, 40 years ago and where your parents maybe have moved through that market. So their advice might be a little skewed. So be careful about picking up a job that you think you're going to be there for the next 30 years because things are moving so fast and your skill level is going to be just exploding. When you hit the ground running, you will have so much more immediate applicable training that can be immediately used in the marketplace. So whoever is going to get you, they'd be wise to plug you in not just on one project, but on several different teams and projects. So just enjoy those and remember that those teams, you're building a network. So hold on to those networks as you even move from one system to another. Thank you. And also, folks, take advantage of those iSchool opportunities for service and leadership as well. We have a lot of great opportunities with Student Research Journal, with our student organizations, with grants for conference travel opportunities to participate in the poster sessions virtually or in person. So those are things you can leverage as well. The next question is from Audrey. I was an elementary teacher for eight years. I'm considering becoming a youth services librarian in a public library, but I'm worried that the work-life balance will be that similar of a public school teacher. Could any of the panelists speak on the work-life balance within public librarianship? Who wants to go first? Dr. Stevens. Okay, I was just a guest on a podcast talking about burnout in the field. And we talked about work-life balance because I was very guilty of living and breathing libraries for many, many years, maybe from the mid-2000s until mid-teens, I guess, that it was exhausting. So what I would say is, and I know how demanding teaching can be, but come into that public library job and I think youth services would be wonderful. It would offer many creative outlets, etc. But draw the line when you get there that your weekend if you are not working is yours and you are done at five or whatever, and that is your recharging time. And what I would say and what I have tried to say to the folks running the shows, running the libraries, is we need to recharge and we need to be away from our work because that helps us come back to it and do it even better. So, and one of the things and you can, once you get to the interview stage, I think that'd be a really interesting question to ask is what is the work-life balance or questions related to that? I had a job description. I post job descriptions in the hyperlink library class and there was one job description where it was aligned like anything goes or whatever or anything to get the job done. And I had three or four students this semester narrow down on that like, wait, does that mean that I'm going to live and breathe this job? And I said, no, I hope not. I think what they're saying is when you are there, when you are on the clock or whatever you want to call it, you are 100% in for serving the young people, for doing what you're called upon. But then when you're home, I think that should be your time. I do it now too. It's seven o'clock Eastern time. I'm usually away from the computer and it has been very, very useful. Sorry, that was kind of a roundabout answer. Sorry about that. Perfect answer. Oh, thank you. I'm not so sure that faculty are the really good people to ask about, famously really bad at it. But I think Michael's introduction of this magical, mystical thing called the job description is really important. The degree to which you are called upon to do those things are documented. You are reviewed on a semi and then sometimes annual basis for the degree to which you are meeting those things that are documented. If you're being called upon things are changing very fast, that should be reflected in a revised job description so that you do have professional command over your time to the maximum degree possible. That's something that that should differentiate a professional position from a paraprofessional role or a clerical role. And so guarding your time both on the job and off the job is something that you should be entitled to assert as a professional. And don't do what we do. Let me add too that when I've been across the interview table that I ask what inspires you and often I you know because that's when they talk about what's in their heart and you know what what makes them shine and sparkle. And oftentimes you hear about you know I love to do this in my free time. I've done this and I my goal is to do and see this XYZ. You know that's when you can talk about extracurricular and in doing that on the other side you're also coaching your soon to be employers that you have work-life life balance. You do these things and you want these things and there is a mesh.  I hope that player is mud. No it's good. Right. Oh good questions. Great questions and great participation. Also I'll just say that doing those internships would give you a great inside look at what the culture is like in the public library where you're thinking about potentially working. And if you can't get into that one get into a neighbor because neighbors talk to each other. Okay well we have a few more minutes so there are no open questions. Do any of the panelists have any other topics that they like to talk about that may have been sparked by some of the conversation that we've had so far? I have one. Anybody else want to go first? Ruth I saw your head Boppy. You know I was just going to talk about equity. I've been teaching equity for the last six plus years and man is it more valuable than ever. The content is so it's so important and I can't stress that enough that people are really they have their eyes open and they're they're dialed in to the community's conversations on that. I was going to explain the portfolio and how it relates. The the core competencies that we're asking you to mount demonstration of evidence for doesn't come from heaven it comes from our systematic annual review of what employers are asking in their job calls. So we are constantly putting a meter and measuring what they're asking for and then looking back into our curriculum to see where it would be best placed in which class and so forth so that you every class you take lists the number of specifies the number of core competencies and which ones that a particular course will offer you so that by the time you're done you have evidence for all of them and I think that's an important thing to to realize when you're going through that these are not age old dusty competencies. These are the ones that are relevant most relevant to today's employers and that should be some of some some solace for you. Thank you okay I see we have another question what are some good resources for building up a library professional style resume and how can we best use the portfolio as a supplement Dr. Bernier is somewhat answering this now but would be more helpful. So if you folks don't know we have a career consultant named Kim Doherty and we have a career advisor liaison from the SJSU Career Center Carrie McKnight who will review your resumes and cover letters but we also within our career development section of our website have specific content about resumes and cover letters so hopefully folks are making use of those curated resources and then I'll turn it over to any of the advisors who would like to address this. Oh go ahead Steve Michael. Oh no I was reading the question again. Oh well please go ahead yeah. What I wanted to say is I've found it very valuable to encourage my employee employees through my different jobs that I've had to get a coach that is that is dialed in to the library or the library system and that coach can kind of you know meet with them once a week once a month whatever works for you and talk about your aspirations talk about your learning talk about your goals and get that feedback get that live coach hip to hip kind of conversation going they will be your best you know advocate when you're starting to look for a job and they also have probably a fairly good network that can help you you know leverage yourself out into the out into the hiring community and if you I know of some people that have more than one coach too so whatever works for you like like say with Michael you know a tech you know if you're looking for a tech job but there's nothing open yet look for another coach that is you know developing employees in other areas so kind of play them off each other diversify. Do any of the advisors want to speak about mentoring in their careers and who who helped you level up or get yourself to the next level how did that work for you? I had a mentor in my public library career that she was she was my supervisor in the reference department and this this is something maybe file this away for when you are a supervisor she would every once in a while and it would be me or somebody else say well let's go two doors down and have a cup of coffee or tea and talk and that would be kind of a way we got out of the like the everything of the library and we talked about like she said well I've been thinking about what you might want to do next and I'm thinking we might want to start this and this and it was just very very useful. Yeah so you can benefit from having a mentor and the people that you become a mentor for can they will benefit as well. I do have a response to that but Sky has asked a very important question that I want to get to as well and I don't want to talk the whole time but I do want to say that I do advocate that students consider building what I refer to as a personal board of directors they that wherein they reach out to people across their life some professional perhaps a religious faith leader someone in the family who's who's who they respect someone who cares about you someone who cares about hearing your development someone and your board doesn't meet officially but you reach out to everyone on the board three or four or five people once or twice a year here's what I've been doing here's what's challenging do you have any ideas about this when you take a look at my cover letter so a personal board of directors is something that you assemble consciously not just I just happen to meet this person and I like them and so I talk to them something that you do consciously but to talk to Sky's she keeps asking the Sky keeps asking these great questions in terms of evaluating library programs and services in in the public library do you know of any new ways that public libraries evaluate their services and programs should we be focusing on hearing feedback directly from patrons and they have the word I'm sure everybody will agrees hell yes you have to be evaluating your services the tradition of public libraries is how many people came and nobody complained and how many programs I gave but that's not evaluation we offer info 285 which is at least in the youth services pathway that's the one I teach it's of course designed to examine service and program evaluation so you go way beyond just how many people came nobody complained at how many programs I gave but the same issue is true across library the library field I complain all the time about academic librarians who visit classes give tutorials and then walk out of the room not knowing if anybody learned a damn thing so evaluation is very important there are techniques that you can study and learn I teach a class focused on them but there are others it's the term we're using now is outcomes which has it has to do with what users found valuable not what we found valuable not what we found convenient to claim or count but what users are are experiencing how they found it valuable that's that's my sermon on the mound for that absolutely all right I was just about to put the link for the info 285 topics in our chat so let me grab that it's an overview of the different um topics within info 285 one of them is survey research evaluating programs and services is another let me put that in multitasking here um okay so yeah there's another comment from sky now if you folks didn't squeeze in enough of course topics know that when you're graduated from the program you will be able to take classes here through iSchool open classes this is an opportunity for you to continue your professional development the classes are available on a space available basis but um you're still able to take um those hot topics by by doing that coming back and taking classes one at a time all righty so I'm not seeing any open yes please it's uh being aware of the background of your faculty that you choose in the courses that you take some of us are full-time faculty members and our scholars in our field and the work that we do is based on evidence that's peer reviewed by peers and um gone through rigorous examinations others of us are part-time faculty members who serve in practitioner roles as library directors or heads of departments that are important that have a great deal of current awareness um experience both offer important insights and perspectives but as a someone who's choosing courses you should be at least aware of which you are choosing so that you can you can take the most benefit from the option that you're choosing um and so I just I just sort of always want to talk about that because it is is an important distinction both of these profiles offer tremendous value to you but you should be aware of which it is thank you okay I also had included a link to the Yalsa's mentoring program so check with your local library associations that you're joining to see if they have any mentorship component as well for those who are interested I'm not seeing any further open questions so we'll give it another minute or so do any of the panelists have concluding remarks about this topic public librarianship uh librarianship pathway nobody's talked about the pandemic and the coming away from pandemic or hopefully moving away from pandemic I would I was going to mention that in back to the work-life balance question I have some hopes that coming out the other side of what we have been through that people will understand that they do need to do the self-care balance thing and we should all be open to that including the folks that run libraries and maybe there is some work that can be done at home where there is other ways that we can take care of each other I was really impressed with the public libraries that offered mental health programming not for the public they might have done that too but for staff deep in the pandemic when people were were home or isolated staff members were home and isolated I hope those things carry forward that we we just seek to understand each other more that's great anyone else well our time together is coming to a close I'm not seeing any final questions I just want to thank my teammate Taryn and our three fantastic panelists today for sharing some of their lunch hour with us it's been phenomenal to hear from your experiences your suggestions and your encouragement this recording will be located on our student services channel not channel but playlist on the youtube presence in a few weeks located there you'll be able to find our other lunch and learn topics as we go through all the MLIS career pathways and you have a chance to interact with our faculty advisors if you need additional resources know that we're there for live chat from Monday through Friday from 11 to 1 pacific time and you can reach one of us on the student services team as well we have student services advising appointments Tuesdays and Thursdays you can sign up for online if you need someone to look at your candidacy plan or have other questions we welcome your feedback at iSchoolatSJSU.edu and we look forward to seeing you at our next workshop thank you all three panelists we really appreciate your time today and be well and have a great weekend everyone