line that there's a lot of work there. And then I guess just thinking of, you know, between Isabel circle and Heaton Woods and the habitat project like what else are there ways that we can be like more clear on what are we doing to ensure that we're really supporting those and every way that we can be to be moving forward. So is there anything more tangible than just support development projects that are underway which I know you do a lot and so maybe some of us just naming the kinds of things that you do just to be more clear to people of how we do do that because I know when you describe it's always impressive to me like how much kind of ways the city does try to do that. And I think that's where you get into things like development agreements and tax stabilization of those kinds of things that we can do to some extent, although that's a specific district so that would only be within those geographic boundaries. But we don't have, you know, the state doesn't provide a lot of tools for local governments to. So those are the ones we have and I think we've dabbled in them but I think one of the one of the key policy challenges for the city and council this year's are we going to go into these and you know, and have discussions Mike's going to describe development agreements tonight.  So, so there's, I think that's what a lot of this policy is about is how can we put even more sort of meet on the bone for moving these things forward. I mean, you're right, obviously the projects we control we control but it's, it's the others that we help. And I think the past over the, you know, the first eight years. I was here a lot of the emphasis was really on focusing on working with our nonprofit partners with French block and with the transit center. We had a lot of effort on, on working with those and you know, we can't continue to rely on our nonprofit partners to be our housing developers that's why we weren't the ones who initiated the country club road purchase but when we heard that was coming we were really excited about the opportunity that we would be able to facilitate housing happening at that at that site. You know, that kind of came out of the recreation folks who are like, this is a great place for recreation. We said that's also a great place for housing. So, so that kind of spurred being able to be an active player in housing but we also wanted to do more with private housing projects and Isabelle circle is one and that's pro and that's a project that's currently waiting for us. You and I to talk about these development agreements because they need a development agreement for their project to start moving forward. And the issue we had was, we really don't have any policies to help guide us so we're going to have a discussion tonight on the local development agreements, so we can set a policy so we can help move some private projects forward. There's a, there's an economic barrier. So there's a regular there are regulatory barriers out there, and whether it's local or act 250, they come up from time to time, but there are also economic barriers and this is a development agreement that we're going to be able to alleviate that the second one we have is, we were going to come in tonight with also a discussion of the tax stabilization policy but what we learned after putting together, Josh did a thorough review of our tax stabilization policy and had a number of recommendations that he thought we could have to make a better policy, but we, it's actually been voted on as to what the policy is going to be. In order for us to make a change so that we'd have to actually go back to the voters to get authorization for the council to give us permission to do. So we were like that's a little too much to talk about tonight, but I did want to just preface it that the tax stabilization policy it's another tool and toolbox for us to be able to say how can we help private housing developers on projects. But we need to really amend our tax stabilization policy to give us that flexibility to give you the ability to give us the flexibility to work with property owners on tax stabilization. So those are two big ones again, is that going to be enough. We're going to have to find out we're hoping it is. I would say that the third big piece that I don't know if it's in this one or it's in a different one is just the direct outreach to property owners. Which does that already on a regular basis trying to build relationships with people we have a number of vacant space in our downtown and a few certain buildings. We'd love to see those get redeveloped. And it's just building relationships with people to get them comfortable with wanting to go and try to invest some money into some housing in those in those spaces. One thing is if we be when we get to having a discussion of tax stabilization agreements. A part of it's going to need to be an overall primer on what tax stabilization agreements are because I know it seemed like when I first came out the first few years. The council, we dealt with several proposals for tax stabilization agreements and I was on a committee to work on redesigning them but I wouldn't assume that people know a lot about that stuff. No, it's, it's kind of like talking about tax and TIF which is tax increment financing. They're both similar tools, they're very powerful tools, but they take a bit of time to go and actually explain the nuances of how they work and how they benefit and protect the community at the same time. But it's always important to know the details of those. One question that occurred to me as I was going over this. We have a bullet for create and apply for a new TIF program. Does is the creation of the new growth center designation subsumed in that or should that be broken out as a separate separate step. Because we've been for country club road we've sort of been thinking about the three step process of zoning, which we did tonight, then growth center, then TIF. It'll be a part of that, that TIF step we will have to do the growth center to do the TIF. The TIF will be larger than the, well, currently the growth center includes the savings pastor parcel, which is adjacent to country club road. Add country club road to the growth center, add it to the larger area, and then there'll be at least four or five parcels that would be then in the TIF district. So TIF is not just for the country club road piece it is also for savings pastor, and it's also for the piece next to them. And it would be for the piece of Steve Rabilini's parcel that is the one that we added into our new urban residential district. And so there could be other possibilities when we talk about TIF we can talk about, do we want to add this piece or that piece that's also adjacent to that. It would have to be an adjacent and it'll have to be part of the project. They would have to be something that adds increment. So it's got to be a place that we know there's going to be some development going on that we can count on as increment, which is new taxes. When I say increment, we're talking about new taxes because new taxes will be used to pay the bond that builds the infrastructure. Adrian, did you have your hand up a minute ago? I mean, I just had a quick question. I don't know if you mentioned it so I'm going to ask it. You talked about the vacancy space in downtown. Do we know what the vacancy rate is for downtown and then what is the goal? Is the goal to have 100% filled in terms of space in our downtown and then what's the plan to get to that? I don't think in this case there's a goal. It's just we know of certain buildings that have been kind of long term vacant. It's kind of like when I got here in 2014, we all talked about the French block across the street and that it had been vacant for 75 years. And can't we do something about getting housing in there? We have a couple other buildings. It isn't a matter of looking at every single place to make sure every single building is 100% occupied. It's really a matter of looking at a handful or a couple of significantly vacant and underutilized buildings. And so there are these certain opportunities that exist there that we could go through if we can get property owners to be interested in redeveloping that we might be able to make some differences in. And that's really where we're trying to, you know, we'll always work with anybody. If somebody's got an idea and they want to bring it to us, we're always welcome to help, you know, with a unit here or a unit there or a space here. But, you know, if somebody has 70 or 80% of their place, and most of these don't actually have units, they're just space. So it's not like they've got 16 apartment units and they've only got two of them rented. These are just space, big space that has, you know, we're just like, it would be great for you to renovate the space, make them into apartments. And it would probably cost this much and you'd make this much money and we can help set you up with, you know, developers and we can help set you up with property managers so you don't have to worry about it. You've got a lot of space and we could, we could benefit the community could benefit by having that space converted into residential. Just to follow up. Is there any incentive as we can provide to those owners to develop those properties? That's where the housing trust fund comes in. That's where we could put money into a project to make things happen. But it's also in some cases, that's where the tax stabilization comes in. It's sometimes somebody's like, well, if I fix up my building, I'm going to have to pay more in taxes. Well, the tax stabilization says, all right, well, we can stabilize it for a period of time. And if you fix up your building, we're not going to raise your taxes. You can still have to pay your education taxes. We can't stabilize those. We don't have the power to do that, but we can stabilize your municipal taxes. One more follow up. Sorry. So many questions at this hour. Usually I'm asleep. Is there a, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but is there, I don't, I'm going to say it because I don't know what other word to use, but like a fine for these buildings that are vacant that aren't being utilized for housing or commercial purposes. I have no idea what that would be called, but like, there's space that we have. Is there something negative that would happen to those owners? I don't know how to call what to call it. Yeah, no, not. Okay, buildings are producing.  You're down to like, you're talking about five. We can't talk about who they are with the addresses are like on these meetings, but we all know who they are. They're just tough situations. I don't know the backstory. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things where in this, it's actually, that's a great question because just thinking about, you know, you'll hear a lot of times, you know, why doesn't couldn't the city just put housing on such and such a lot? Or, you know, couldn't the city just put housing on Saban's pasture? So couldn't the city just convert that building? Well, these are privately owned buildings. You know, the building owners have to want to do them or have to want to sell them to someone who is interested in doing or want to partner with someone or get partner with us to get the grants that would help them do that. You know, the French block that Mike talked about, you know, was owned by this family, the Dickies, and they'd bought it 75 years ago. They had owned Arbashan's and, you know, they paid a small, tiny sum of money to build a building. They had owned the building outright. They were just getting cash from Elise. There was no financial incentive whatsoever for them to take on the huge project it was going to take to renovate that upstairs. But it was a fire hazard. It was a major community concern. And we tried every trick we could think of to convince the Dickies to do something. But only after they sold it to the Arbashan Corporation, who then said, we didn't buy this building to have vacant space upstairs. They said, what can you do? And then we connected them with Downstreet and we got grants and put together housing projects. So now it's a condo and they don't own it and it's developed and there's people living there. But, you know, and so it's great. The city helped do that. But the owner did too. And, you know, I think that the idea that if someone has a, you know, yes, we hate to see vacant buildings, but we don't find people have vacant land that aren't doing something, right? You could be building something on your land, right? I mean, they're choosing not to. So I don't know. It's tough. I mean, I think we can do something if it's a public safety hazard, then it becomes a different ballgame. But if it's just landlord choosing not to rent it. But there has been, there have been people over the years talked about, well, can we do some kind of tax on vacant properties that would be above the regular tax that people pay? And that certainly is some, I don't know if we would, I'm sure we don't have the authority to do that without getting a charter change. I assume we don't, but that doesn't mean it's not something we could discuss. And at this point, we're trying to keep everything positive out of our office. I mean, it's a lot easier to continue to just continue to build relationships and try to groom these relationships in hopes that we can eventually have a breakthrough in one or more of these opportunities. And we don't know when that'll happen, but we hope at some point it'll work out. But that is a part of what we do on a regular basis as a part of, you know, it's not specifically on this list, but that's those are some of the other other things that we would do. How do we get more housing? Sometimes it's just making sure we keep picking up the phone every four or five months to go and say, hey, you know, haven't haven't heard from you in a while. What do you think about this idea? Is this something that you think might be helpful to have elected officials as part of these conversations? Say, hey, so and so the mayor and I would like to come over and talk to you about what you could do about your property. Would that be a net positive or a net negative? I think, I think Bill and I would just have to have a sit down conversation on a case by case basis to decide. To make sure it's, to make sure it's, you know, in some cases, you know, people might have more positive relationships with some folks than others. And frankly, we do that now. I mean, if we have a situation and somebody, you know, even with the NARA, you know, one of us has a better relationship with an individual than another.  We'll see if we can get Jack to reach out or, you know, Tim knows them. Let's see if we can, you know, any of, you know, it's like, we're always trying to, it's a small community that there's a personal connection there. Or if there's a situation that comes up where they're concerned, like, gee, we don't know if we're going to actually get support from the council on this action to rezone the property.  So, you know, those, those will happen from time to time just to maybe not with specifically with the zoning change. But for different, different projects that might come up. So going through this, you know, I keep thinking that what we're talking about when we do the strategic planning is what are we going to use city council's time to to work on things to advance initiatives and, and secondarily, what are we going to use our city steps and which is also a limited resource, you know, we saw the six people who work in your department. But so going down the list, any amendments to zoning regulations. Clearly, but to make those happen. That's city council, revising the housing trust fund guidelines will come to the city council and we have to do that. We started working on the short term rental ordinance. We're going to be looking at some program recommendations and development agreements tonight. Is there anything on on the list that either you don't think is within your capacity the capacity of your department to do or people on the council don't think is something that we should that deserves to be on this. This list of strategy items. Question to bill and he provide answer to the city council. But there's a discussion if there are any alternatives to TIF application, so anything might create less financial burden on taxpayers maybe we can add next to apply for a new TIF item and just like talk about. If there are, what are they if no we this is the best alternative why just to inform public in a more detailed way. So if it is okay with the planning committee and the. Yeah, I mean I think certainly we would be so. So again, none of this says like this does say apply for but you, these are things that you would need to approve this list of things. From, from, or I said of having sort of taking my marching orders from you folks you, you sort of advanced the plan you approve the work plan on country club road, which was included the, the zoning and the growth center thank you and the TIF so we would be working toward that but we have to get the growth center and first, you know, we would come in and do a presentation about TIF, before we actually made the application you would have to approve the application so that would be a good time to talk about it. You know, I think the question of the financial burden, the burden is if we're going to put up money, and it's going to come back from new tax revenue so, you know, how do we assure that that we're covered. There is a little bit of risk there. And, but, if we don't do, I mean I suppose we could just put it in and hope that the tax revenue comes or I was like, I think I said, or we just tell the developer you've got to do it all. But then the project either doesn't become viable or we get a whole different kind of project than what, you know, we will we get one that is that much more expensive, because that's what the real estate can, you know, we put a $2 million homes and we can make this pencil out we can't do it with the 300 units that you want. So, you know, we have to consider those things so. Like I said, we don't have a lot of choices either it's not like there's we have seven development programs to choose from I mean we have TIF and then the local development agreement is basically a mini TIF it's just, you know, junior TIF, and tax stabilization and that's, you know, that's kind of it and then whatever grants we can get our tax credits that might exist, you know that the state offers that we can apply for on behalf of people, we don't have many local choices ourselves under state law. Lauren question I had for Mike. Consider city plan program recommendations. I mean is that a whole other suite of policy ideas is that more like projects just what like what might we anticipate seeing under that because that seems like a big possible other umbrella. They're actually very similar to what you see here. So, probably from your perspective what it really is is paying attention and contributing to the city plan process so Sam housing is the topic for May 13. So, whether it's at that meeting or before or after people see the implementation strategies that are laid out you'll probably see a lot of them are very similar to these. So, looking at an eight year window, this is looking at a one year window. So the difference is you might see more things you might see more detail of things, but the idea is, over the next eight years, this is where we want to move towards. And if there are things that it's like we should also be doing this or we shouldn't be doing that. That's the input that the planning commission is going to be looking for. But I don't think we'll be voting to add anything from the city plan program recommendations. Thanks. That's really helpful. I mean, I think. This seems like a good list. I don't. It seems like they're all conversations worth having given, you know, that this is such a huge community need and priority of the council. So, I mean, I. Again, it seems like a big, a big list with your small team, Mike, but it just seems all worth pursuing. And for me, everything here is something that is a step toward some concrete outcome. That's, in terms of, you know, Adrian, you're talking about how do we measure where, where we got, well, we'll know what happens in country club road because probably the housing goes there or not. Okay. Page on these. Sorry, it's a little bit it's just redundant from the last one, but it just shows you what's up next we were talking about housing tonight. We're talking about resiliency at the next meeting and so on. And so we'll keep going until it's complete and we'll be complete with these presentations. In June, we'll bring back a summary of what we've discussed and provide a little bit more clarity and then also report out on this iteration of the strategic plan. And just one of the other. So that list that you see. I just went by. Just like with the infrastructure, you know, you'll start seeing those and my weekly report where it projects out future agenda either be on the pending list or they'll start seeing them on calendar dates. So that's, that's we're building out our council meeting work plan for the rest of the year by saying this is important enough to do. Well, last at our last meeting we decided well, rather than vote yes on one package each week we would look at the whole package at the end and so I don't know if we, but I do want to have as much of a chance for discussion about these items. Tonight as we can recognizing that we can come back and in in four or five meetings say, Oh, you guys have it all wrong. We changed our minds. We're going to go for the million dollar houses on country club road. I think the main thing for us would be if there's something that people really don't want to do that sooner we know that the better, or if there is a disagreement or a, you know, a lack of clarity over something and you all want to make clear amongst what you mean by something. And those are things most helpful, you know, most of the stuff is stuff we we had already talked about really all this stuff I mean there's a lot but it's also, it's been in the queue kind of anyway. And so if there's something new you'd like to add and take something out those kind of that's what this is the check it is this meeting your goals right is this what you want to do or is there something that ought to be added to this something should be taken off. You know, this is, you have a goal for wanting to create more housing, based on the conversations we've all had this is, this is what's on the list. Or is this correct or not. And this is, you know, again, you can think about it now and we'll come back to it but those are the kind of things that helpful for us because if it's if it's like, hey, we really just don't want to do tax stabilization. We'll just save us. Not having to do. So, I'm not recommending that but Yeah, go ahead and then Lauren. session we did. It's still. There's no timeline associated with these are some of these are items that would be in the one year plan and some could be the 345. Right, but in terms of us helping set goals and priorities. It's still just a long list because we really haven't given you any or much feedback on what are the most important items versus Confluence Park, which is on the list because it stays on the list but as far as I'm concerned it should be kind of some below the last line. But you know, there's things. It's like how do we take a list this big in one night and absorb it and then really give you the feedback you need. This is kind of what I'm trying to figure out. Like we just walked away from the last one. And probably it's worth talking about some point what items are at least the least important to us. Because everything we brought up that we talked about. People kind of mentioned there was always another reason why I should stay. But still, I think there was some underlying feeling of that's not as important. That's why I brought it up. You know, I think on this list. It's possible that you know the short term rental ordinance would be looking at the workload that is based here. Can we add more things like this right now. To make a statement because it seems like that's what we're trying to make with it, but it could be a pretty expensive time consuming statement. So to me, I would that wouldn't be in the top priorities on this list. And possibly, you know, the the tax program might be one that's going to take a lot of time so that might not fit our workload this year. Yeah, unless you think you need it to help make some of the developers be able to do their piece to get a third country club road or have to have for humanity or both or whoever to get these projects going. So, so I do appreciate that and I think, you know, again, we can maybe give some thought to how maybe at the end of this. I think that we go, you know, once we've reviewed all of them and see, you know, then take a look and use dots, you know, prioritize somehow each in each one, think of some way to at least, even if it doesn't mean taking them off at least putting them in numerical order somehow, you know, that would be helpful. But as I, you know, I look at this for example, you know, currently we did we did just do the amendments and zoning regulations if we want to take on more later and be fund housing trust guidelines. I mean, I think that's probably mostly going to be work that comes from the housing committee. And they'll bring it to the council, but it means that it would be on one of your agendas, the short to rental ordinance mean you already voted tonight to have it come back so we're already committed to do some work there. You know, they're working through that, no matter what and probably won't be the final version won't be coming to us till fall at the earliest. So CCR has been our top priority actual hands on project, so we're putting all we have into that which does require growth center but TIF wouldn't be retail fall probably funding that's really a budget thing, you know, we're going to put more money in the housing trust fund next year when we do the budget, it's already kind of set for this year that with nothing. So that doesn't really require a lot of work unless it's analyzing what we might do with that. So advanced housing projects on city only and that's basically country club road and 1216 Main Street which we're talking about in a few minutes. We don't really have, you know, and the very street rec center, very street rec center right if if that's if that were to you know, that's, that would be a longer term out that's kind of all tied into the different CCR stuff. And then you've got the development agreement policy which Michael along tonight in tax stabilization which, you know, we are. It's probably do for an uphaul and we've got some. So, yes, it's a long list and it's not the biggest one of, you know, the CCR project is bigger than all the rest of them come by. So that's the big nut and that's, but that also makes sense. That's our big investment. That's the one we control. So, and so TIF goes with that. And the development agreement. Again, we can talk about what we will talk about. The less I talk now, the sooner we get to talk. Yeah. So I think it might be helpful for us as a recommendation I know that we're going to approve all these at the end is one list. But it might be nice to see them kind of as what Tim and Bill were saying, like I'm thinking of the variable that would be really helpful for us and it's going to propose this to help make decisions right so. I think of the effort like what is the effort this would take what is the impact that it will, you know, what is the, what is the effort and impact. What is the cost. What is the time that is right so it's the cost of doing these, you know, policies these programs. What is the resources that are needed and what is the expected outcome. I'm thinking like resources as like people resources like time staff. Right so if we had a full list with like a matrix that like outlined those recommended variables that might be others but I think that would help prioritize and bring to light. You know, some of these, you know, like, you know, the short term rental ordinance you're going to share with us at the main meeting that might take a lot of effort in terms of staff time but what is the impact. What is the cost what is the personal personnel resource of that like, I think it'd be really nice to weigh those variables that will help us be more informed to make a educated decision. Okay. Any folks. I think that Lauren sorry. It was more back to the list was just Tim had mentioned that the housing committee has a couple other things. I mean I'm wondering if we should. There's consider city plan program recommendations. Maybe it's like just adding to one of those like and housing committee recommendations just it sounds like we're going to be seeing like maybe an infill proposal or some other things which I don't know if any of them would require. Council action or whatever, but it just seems like we should be naming everything that we anticipate if we already know of some. I think if you look at the, there's a like a blue list that was in your packet. That kind of lays out a number of things and including like initiative 2.1.2 says consider housing committee recommendations and there's a bullet for revised housing trust fund guidelines and new short term rental ordinance. We could certainly add. If there are additional bullets. I mean, it's certainly not something that we're going to say, well, it wasn't on the list. We're not going to consider it. So, but I mean, I think. Yeah, I'm just thinking like. This is actually a little bit better. It feels like better to be as comprehensive if we already know things are coming. Just so we're. Assessing it all within the context, but. Okay, thanks folks. Next up. Just going to stop share and get some lights on. 12 to 16 Main Street. I get to hand this off to Josh and get a breather here. And while Josh is getting set up. This might be a good time to check in with people on. On time and items left on the agenda. We have 16 Main Street discussion of developments agreements. Congressional directed spending grant committee proposal for amending the city. Siphon use policy. That kind of seems like a lot, but I know I'm also someone who my bedtime is probably later than a lot of other people's bedtime. So. Don't necessarily rely on me for what we should keep on the agenda. Lauren. I mean, I think number 14 and 15, the grant committee and stipend conversation. Maybe we could push. I know the Congressional directed spending is time sensitive. And just continuing with all of. Continue on the same theme that we have all night and with the staff that we have here seems to make sense. And then punt the last two. So, Adrian, you were out of the room when we were discussing. Well, we're talking about.  Pushing items. 13 and 14 or 14 and 15 off to the next meeting. And, and Carrie. 14 was yours. I wonder how you feel about that. 15 is scary. Sorry. Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's all right. We will take. 14 and 15 off tonight and put it on for next time. Thank you. Okay, Josh. Josh from community and economic development specialist. Wanted to circle back around with 12 to 16 main streets. That is the former beverage baron location and we have completed the lot line adjustment to create a separate parcel. I think the plat was submitted to you guys to show what that parcel looks like it's right around 6,600 square feet. So, the pins have been set and it was the intention of council to have that lot be designated as a cell for development. And so we're just coming back here to ask that question again. What, what do you guys want to do with that that parcel do you want to still develop it what are it if you do what are some of the things that you would like to see in that structure. Things that would be included in an RFP that would be sent out to a developer. And maybe some history. Yeah. So. Yeah, some history. The city acquired that property. In the, actually in the whole transit center project because that was required. We needed that land for the bike path to go through. That's also when we straighten the road out that goes up behind there and that. We took down the popular beverage building and created the opened up this green space that exists today. And at the time there was some discussion whether it should remain green space whether it should be developed. What should we do.  And the conclusion at that time was it should be developed. It was an active part of the downtown. And so we brought that to the city council a couple of years ago. So, and at that point it was, yes, let's move forward with developing for sale. With the idea that it would be housing with potential, the retailer office, depending what the market for the first floor. If it could be all housing great if it couldn't be, then, you know, we, we, they were councils open to some different use on the first floor. And the only other piece that was involved in that that at one point, because of the nature of the federal funding. It had to have been if we're it had to remain in transfer active transportation use, but we the city council chose to buy out that interest. So we did pay some money to VTrans to basically repay for the federal funds that purchased that person. So we own it outright with no restrictions on its use. So that it so I think and the council did that with the anticipation that that was an investment that they would get a return on with a sale. But that decision was made a couple years ago, at least four different council members were in this room this one majority of the council was different. So we wanted to make sure that this current council wanted to do that or not or if you want to do something different, but we are now all the administrative things have been done. So we're looking forward. So we're just checking in. Are we on same path? Tim, there's a building. Right. Yeah, it was designed specifically for my bill your beverage. But yes, there is a building that got permits and certainly could be used as a basis for, you know, someone would probably alter it because it had a loading dock for the, you know, the recycling and things out back. But I think in general, yes, I think it could be. A lot line adjustment you did. Does that change the way that building would fit or it's still okay. Very minor. It's a very minor change. The only real change from that design to the actual lot line adjustment is we there's an easement right on the corner there. Because the sewer city sewer line runs underneath there and we we sort of caught the property line off so that we would maintain ownership. Yep. Yeah. We don't want the sewer line to be running underneath somebody's building. And the old shared drive wastes that are there that's from when it was multiple lots in the past. Yeah. And I'm, I'm wondering about this, you know, because I see a lot of the development pattern of downtown is buildings just right up against each other one by one all the way to the end. Are we thinking that something like that could happen? Or would there be space between the building that the drawing board is in and so there's building. There are two issues with that. One is that there is a shared, you know, there are rights that drawing board building has rights to right away through there and it's a shared alleyway. And the second issue is, you know, there are residential units there as well. Now I know there's plenty of residential, you know, so it would be blocking windows and those kinds of things. So it would, I mean, potentially, if it could be negotiated that, you know, that would probably up to the new owner to try to cut a deal with that building owner to get rid of that alleyway and do that. But we don't envision that happening. We see that that the way it sits on the ground right now that would be that. There'd be an alleyway and some kind of commercial space probably on the 1st floor and. And how many floors up was 3, but it could be up to. I think 6 is a lot of downtown. Yeah, and the other thing we need to do with maintaining the alleyway between the drawing board and the new building. And we obviously have to work with the Beards to make sure we can. We'd like to remove that as a as a road access to turn it just into a pedestrian access to have that clarified, but it has to be for pedestrians we own a municipal parking lot and back. And there are no sidewalks to get to the city street. So we would like turn that alleyway. Reserve that alleyway and turn it into basically a pedestrian alleyway. So that way we maintain our handicapped accessibility from the back to the front, because actually, if you look at that, there is no sidewalk on that side. Where the new road was built, there's no sidewalk there. So. And there's no connection from the parking lot to the bike path. So we would have to maintain some kind of path through there, but that would be something we would negotiate with.  Okay. Tim. I don't think I managed the building prepared since 1983. Is that the drawing board building? Yeah. Okay. So in terms of, I don't know about the conflict. I don't think I do it. I don't think so. I don't think so, but it's good to disclose. Yeah. I'd be in favor of making a motion that we pursue the RFP project. With the caveat that we get this, we can get a building that began the whole paying property and the tax roll. In 2002, right in front. Yeah. Okay. Is there a second? Is there a price? Is that something that would be decided now? Or. I'm not quite sure, Bill. I would think that we would. If they vote for us to proceed, we would put that out. I think we would ask for proposals and see what we get. We can always, we would have the right to. Except. You could do that. We could have to guide the process a little, I don't. Yeah, we could. Yeah, we should include an appraisal in there too. Yeah, it's a good idea to add that to my motion. Well, no one's seconded it yet. So please make it make it big. Okay. So it's seconded by Lauren. So, right. So we'll prepare the RFP, get an appraisal. And review all that. Yeah, come back to council with that. Well, at least let them know. I don't know that you'll need it. If assuming they approve this, I don't think they need to approve it again. We should let them know. Okay. And then get it. See what the proposals are and then carry. I am not 100% sure what the motion is. So I would love to have it kind of clarified, but I will just say that I. I feel pretty easy about this. I want to see it developed. I wanted to include housing. That's kind of what I care about. I'd prefer that we don't put a whole lot of other restrictions on it. Other than that, but so, so if I could just know what the, what the motion actually is, that'd be helpful. Move the RFP project, the caveat that we get a building that'll be a full paying property on the tax rolls and provides provide housing and have a have the city do an appraisal. At least I think that's what it is. So, so we're not going to be, we're not going to specify that it should or shouldn't have commercial enterprise on the bottom for anything like that. We're going to leave that open. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think what we've said is we wouldn't. We wouldn't prevent that. Right, right, right. Okay, sounds good. Any other discussion. This is going to be the fast side of tonight, even faster than the consent agenda. All those in favor, signal. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. All right. Real, real actions. Yeah. That's great. All right. Item 12 development agreements. Sorry, I didn't get that much of a break. That's okay. You start drinking coffee at 5pm. Start seeing me nodding off. So, development agreements, I, I don't know how much you've had an opportunity to go and read through the material I gave you. I tried to put together originally I was going to try to put together an actual policy.  So, you know, what are we hoping to try to achieve? You know, this is going to try to increase housing and it can be used for economic development as well. It's expensive to develop adds expensive and it requires infrastructure, which costs a lot of money that cost then goes into the housing. So, you know, if a developer has to put in a million dollars worth of infrastructure. They just divide that among the housing units that they're going to build and that costs those costs get passed along. So if we can work with a developer to have us pay those costs, then the housing becomes more affordable or the economic development. Project pencils out. That's really a little bit of and what we're trying to do what you're trying to do is to have a policy that allows us to negotiate and work. Obviously, any development agreement has to be approved by city council. We just we just need the policies so we can negotiate things and bring them back to you and say this meets your policy. And then there's questions and answers that can go from there. Right now we don't have a policy. We did a similar project to this Caldonia spirits. They needed waterline moved and upgraded. We spent $120,000 doing it.  And it turns out they paid back that money. They didn't really pay it back. They just paid their water bill. Water line. It might have been some sewer stuff and there was also road connections. The city put in two or three pieces of infrastructure and the combination of their new taxes, their new water fees and their new sewer line were anticipated to pay it. And it was, it was actually calculated to be a 10 year payback and they paid it back within five or that revenue was covered those costs within five because it was higher than initially anticipated. So that is the that's basically it is that the city can do these things. But it's really kind of comes down to I tried to lay out as many questions and answers as I could you know kind of you know what is it it's kind of it's a legally binding contract we sign a contract with somebody and they say we agree to do this. In the city signs of our name on the bottom of the line say we agree to do this. And so any any developer any project. Can can go for it as long as they need public goods so infrastructure so we don't buy down people's debt we don't. Do other things like that other other states have rules that allow you to do that. We are just going through and saying if the reason you need help is because you have an infrastructure need and that could be sidewalks that could be storm sewer that could be water sewer roads. Could be it could be parkland it could be there are a number of things that that people could have a need for. It's essentially a public a public infrastructure that's necessary for the private project so we can put our money to the public portion of it. It's really the almost exact same thing is TIF except this would be only with local funds not we wouldn't have access to the education fund. So that's the differences. So that's why we call it sometimes a mini TIF or a junior TIF because it's the same idea. Just to be really clear about the risk, not I mean you'll get a policy. And I strongly recommend you direct us to come back to you with a policy, because I think it is the only tools we have but just so we're clear. We were able to do it with Caldonia spirits, because we had various funds on hand to do that. That won't always be the case so still all meadows or something like that might need you know a million dollars to put in infrastructure. We might need to float a bond for this so just so people understand, if we're doing these things we're going to have to upfront money we don't have that kind of cash on hand necessarily. So it will require you know the public to support this that we based on. So there could be more you know bond votes it could be more of these things so it would mean it is what it's what it means when we talk about how can we support development how can we be aggressive that's those are those are the kind of actions if we don't want to do that. That's great. You don't have to and we won't be as aggressive as we could be in trying to promote development. So it's not there's no right or wrong. It's just that's what this is. It's putting money up with and again we can have performance bonds we have contracts you can have whatever you need to try to. How do we yeah one of the questions for any development agreement that council will have when they come up is what assurances do we have that developer will meet their end of the deal. So somebody's putting in a housing development they want us to put in the sewer and water lines and we say we run all the numbers and we're like well as long as we get 20 housing units. We're going to have enough water revenues coming in to pay for the water line bond. If we get a 20 year bond for water. Everything works out. Now the question is how do we guarantee they're actually going to put in the 20 housing units because we could put in all the water and sewer lines and they go and sell two lots and build for housing units. And we're still paying the bond. So there's risk to us. But where we have to all sit down or you have to sit down as a as a council is to make a decision of where's how do we mitigate that risk as much as we can. In some cases. It's it's a surety bond some cases it's something we know some cases you know we just have to talk about various options. There there are risks. There are risks. Yeah. There could be a mortgage that goes through and says if you fail to deliver on your end we get take ownership of four or five of the lots.  That's where development agreements have their risk. But where this policy comes in is so there'll be always two questions that'll come up when we especially big ones one is where are we getting the money. And the second one is how do we mitigate our risk. But this is where a lot of projects. This is where the rubber meets the road on a lot of these projects and we talk about how can we help. The one on Northfield Street. Habitat that's you know well boy if the city could put in the sewer in the roads where we could put 120 housing units up there it's like well the numbers all work out but how can we guarantee you're going to put 120 housing units up there because if you only put 60. We're going to be left holding the bag. We never got there with that project it hasn't gotten to that point but we've got a deck that's a big example of okay how do we. You know, and that comes down to the question how do we help how private housing projects happen. Well this is one way we do that. So is there a menu or you've seen these before is there. Is there a menu of items that should be in. Development agreement policy and is that what we would expect you to be coming back to it. This laid out a number of examples that we thought were okay like you know small. One of them is like for small expenses using revolving loan fund which has a payback of five years or less. So if somebody comes in it's like look I just need $50,000 worth of help to make my project happen. We have a revolving loan fund we could make those loans as long as they have in the key for us from an administrative standpoint from a staff standpoint is we're looking at the paybacks. What is an okay payback for a certain amount of money a small amount of money. Five year payback. You know if something's not going to generate that much. We'll use water revenue again. We're going to put in a big expense for a water line that's going to have a small payback it's going to have a 45 year payback. Not a really good payback. You know we probably shouldn't be you know what's our policy say our policy says if you're going to spend this much. It's got to have a payback in this range then we can work with the numbers to make sure what when we bring it to you. It meets whatever our payback and I think it hadn't here medium projects could be loaned. You know and then larger projects that require bonding could have a 20 year payback and that's what when we worked with public works they were like. Our water plant and our sewer plant both operate about 50% capacity we have a lot of capacity so as a utility as an enterprise fund we want more users. So hurt wants more users he wants more people to hook on to the system but he does have to make sure that water line. Is going to pay for itself within that 20 year window because if it's not then it's it's doesn't work for him and if it's a road roads have to get paid every paved every 15 years. So if we're going to help pay for the construction of a new city street a we're going to have to account for the fact that we're going to have to be plowing it and be. We have to also recognize it's got to have a really fast payback because we got to repay this thing every 15 years so we can't have a 20 year bond on a 15 year road. So those are the kind of those are the things that we need in the policy so we can say yeah and we'd recommend and you would set. You know what size project would actually even be enough to do this you know. You know just everybody comes in so I want to put a house on my corner you know I'll do respect to your friend that has got the one place yeah we probably wouldn't do that but so it would but if something's above a certain criteria and it meets the payback criteria then you'd consider those and again the council would always have the same taxabilization so the council reserves right to not approve these and they don't have to you know just because you meet the policy doesn't mean you're guaranteed. It just means that we won't even bring it to the council if they don't meet the policy. So you're just looking for a motion to tell you to go back develop policy. Yeah this is something else we have other stuff to do if you'd rather we don't go down this road tell us now and but this is we certainly. An example of a project we can help happen right now. Is there a policy have you seen a policy from any other communities that. I tried very hard to find one and I really most of them tied back to TIFs and this isn't a TIF and we're going to avoid using the word TIF with this because there is actual. Statutory. Things for local TIFs and they have limits and requirements and a whole bunch of things so we're not calling this a TIF we're calling them development agreements and we're adopting it through a different statutory authority. So that way we can avoid the problems that are created. Examples of development agreements that we had. We had one with Down Street and and folks for the transit center we had one with Caldonia spirits and we had actually had one with capital Plaza for the hotel. Project that didn't go. But this would be the policy to get the policy to get us to those but it must include what was in. Yeah I tried with CBOEO I think that's the one that does the economic stuff for Burlington because I was watching in the newspaper and they're like oh we just did another one we just had another development agreement so I. Phone them and I emailed them and I was like hey do you kind of have a policy that says what you approve and don't approve and they never got back to me and any policies there so. It's all pretty much ad hoc. I think it's pretty much ad hoc which is how we've operated but we. It makes it really hard for us to work with people because we really as staff we want to be able to tell them these are the policies. And we would love to go to council and recommend approval of your project. Because it means. And it takes work to staff you know DPW has got to do some preliminary costing and you know and they're willing they like doing it but they don't want to do be chasing that every. Person comes in and says you know kind of work out a payback so and we want to be sure that you're on board with doing these at the end of the day before we spend a lot of time coming so. So the secret is just have a simple kind of a clean outline. Probably to guide you because whatever it is it's going to have to be a custom agreement every time we do. That's right. So yeah yeah and if if we had a development agreement where somebody came in and was like. I want to do this they would come to us we would review it doesn't meet the policies of the basic things they would come to you you guys would say yes. We want to move forward bill gets authorized to take this to legal to write up the actual contract that we would later come back and sign. And there may be a condition in there that says this one is going to require a bond vote there's a condition of the agreement on our end that says it's contingent upon approval of the voters it's the voters voted down the project goes down. And what so we'll just be having special elections every month or so. Yeah. I guess I'm just I mean I think we should pursue it I think it makes sense trying to have a policy is the state looking at this like if this is the real barrier like they just passed the house just passed a bill for like 100 million more dollars for housing like. Could they be putting money into a revolving loan fund for us or like are they looking at this is there any. I mean I like it. We are the small communities it's like they just think you have our budget like from a few months ago to like. I like the idea I just wish the state was doing more on this and like if they're not and this is the real like rubber hits the road. Another example of the barrier like should we be up there advocating that they be like supporting communities helping fund these maybe it's like a state match to help with these projects or something and. I agree. You know we I mean we did basically well I mean we could. Why don't we just decide. That's a long conversation we've had that with some of them even on country club road is like if you can fund the infrastructure we can make the rest of it happen. We don't know what program that fits into. Yeah and we've we've tried with the legislature to do project based tips which would also be another way of doing it and the legislature has balked at that. But Josh is looking from the standpoint the ideal situation we would have is if we had a large pot of funds that we could use as a revolving loan fund. And so you know Josh has been looking at various ones USDA and these different things we haven't found one yet we keep looking. We're kind of a little sidetracked now with the flooding but we'll get back to it at some point to see if there's a grant we could get that would basically. Fund a revolving loan fund and once we get it started obviously we could then allocate $50,000 a year into to just increase the fund over time. So it's much like our housing trust fund we'd have a revolving loan fund for infrastructure. That we could loan to ourselves basically and then we pay ourselves back we loan it out we pay it back then we don't have to worry about the bond side of things we can very quickly and efficiently move things out. But that would be something to move towards in the future for now we just need to know we've got some rules so I'll you guys have this. If you haven't had a chance to read it read it if you have questions please send them to me so I kind of have an idea of what is what are problems what are things that because I'll have to turn this into a policy. Figure out how to do that will be creative. And then bring it back to you so we can move forward because we do have as I said is bell circle will be coming in very very soon to look for assistance and that's really what spurred this on we really needed to kind of get a policy in place so we can move this forward so once we've got the policy then we can quickly take them and bring them in and say here's here's your first example. So someone want to make a motion to tell the city to do this. So we can move. We direct city staff to develop a development agreement policy for us to consider any further discussion. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. The opposed. All right. Next up. The things formerly known as earmarks. Right. So deadline for year for the Congressional Directed Spending is Monday. And we developed a list although actually it did occur to me that a revolving loan fund for housing and development might be something that would get that to it. Maybe in conjunction with the infrastructure. So these are our recommendations for areas that we would look at but obviously we could. So that included flood recovery funds to fix some damage sewer pump stations potentially elevate the down street buildings on Elm Street, which had first floor fund flooding. So I don't know we were going to talk to down street and I think there were some interest there. And I think the biggest one was a big one was to repair and replace all water lines using the new state engineering report that they've approved. And since we sent this we actually got outreach from Senator Sanders office saying that they they had talked to the state and the state had recommended this for Congressional Directed Spending so they basically asked us to apply for it. So we're going to we're going to put in for the whole thing. Unless you said tell us not to. And then the district heat expansion, possibly the snowmelt system and then obviously country club road. I spoke with two of the, you know, Sanders and Welch representatives and they both said basically the same thing apply for, you know, the big ones that you need. Don't worry about dividing them up amongst us. Just send them all to all of us. We get together and divide them up and figure out who wants to sport which ones and which ones. We think there are programs that fit. So, I think, you know, we tried to sort of have four or five items that were reasonable list that we're hitting some key priorities. So, but we don't want to apply for them without your approval and also your feedback or additions or subtractions. All right, any Adrian. I saw this comment so I, I did spend some time doing some research on these congressional directed spending and what what has been approved what projects are likely to be approved. And I think I really like the last one the funds for infrastructure for the country club road project I think that will have to be a very creative application, probably like a phased approach because I don't think I'm just going to. I'm just going to based on what they've funded in the past that's probably not like a likely funded application. But I think if we take it from an approach of increasing housing and central Vermont, this is phase one we're going to have two phases, and we're taking this approach, and this is the first critical step to, you know, increase these units in central Vermont blah blah blah. And that's exactly what we were told was, you know, they're fun there's funds for fixing what's here, but less funds for putting new and expanded, but unless you can really tie it to another need. And so, it would be basically a housing application that said this is what we need to get the housing. And just, I've written federal grants in my life and it's really hard to write a federal grant and this is a lot of work and so we've been writing a federal grant for my job for three months, and it's an entire team of people. So what is the, you know, kind of a reality check to get 123 for I mean I know the applications aren't, you know, a federal grant application but you're still pulling in budgets subject matter experts pulling together what you want to accomplish by next Monday, Monday. So, to that, to that, at least one or two of these we submitted last year. So we have some work done. And the other thing this particular application is pretty straightforward. It's an application, you know, then they sometimes come back and want if you're in the running then you have more work to do, but just to get in the queue. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's a real deal but it's not as onerous as the full package and like I said, and we've really already been working on and I think the one that at least as we sit here today probably is the highest likelihood of success the waterline and we just did the full we have got the full report the numbers it's current. So we're about as prepared as can be to proceed with that. So we feel confident that we could do this if we were to add something new. That would be a little challenging, even though I just offered to do it. Exactly. So is there a motion to approve this list. I approve the lists presented to city council. Sarah second. Any further discussion. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, this will be so great if we get some of this. Thank you. I don't think we have any other business. I don't think we have other business. Council reports. Start at your end. Fast carry. Thanks. I just wanted to. To just refer back to the public comment that we got at the very beginning of the meeting and the, the really the racist comments that were made. I just, I just wanted to be noted that I was pretty appalled at hearing what that. The content of the, of the comment and, and yes, it's public comments and people certainly have a right to, to make whatever public comment they want, but it did not. I found it very disturbing and unfortunate that we had to hear that. Thanks. Tim. No report. Lauren. Mayor's report I have very little to say except that. Bill may also cover this the city manager and I were over at the state house the other day for a press conference that the Senate leadership. Held to talk about all the. Bills the five bills they've passed in the Senate to. Respond to the flooding last year and it was a real opportunity for them to. Celebrate what they had done and we were there to make sure that. It has not been overlooked that there are. 20 properties 10 in Montpelier and 10 in Barry that still have not been funded for. For property elevations and that's part of the, what the house passed and I was glad that. The first one of the first questions they got from a member of the press was, well, what about the people, the three and a half million dollars for. Elevations and Barry in Montpelier. And so we expect that we'll have to continue to be there to make sure that. They don't forget about our residents who have been through so much and. If we can get the money from the state budget, it will be. They're right, it will be there on a much shorter timeline than anything that we can hope to see from FEMA, because the. From Waterbury from 2011 someone just got there the one paying person who made it all the way through the all the hurdles to get. Elevation funds just got it I think in 2023 so. I don't want to see our, our residents having to wait for that. And also. Post office. We will have a retail post office in downtown it's. It is great, great news. We don't know exactly when but great news and thanks to bill because it was due to the efforts of our city manager that the post office was talking to the. City and towns who wound up sub leasing their property to the postal service. And that's all I've got. Well, you'll, you'll have it, you'll have a chance while you come up with the ideas while the city clerk is talking. I just mentioned that I've already collecting balance for the school budget vote on the 30th so that's out there and available and you can vote. And the board of abatement tomorrow. We've got a big list we're cramming in we're still under that April 15th deadline for everything we can cram in there we get reimbursed for the education portion so. Big list hopefully that hopefully that deadline will change but. No, well there you go so everybody come tomorrow. Thank you john. I just like to comment we've had people in the audience for the whole meeting thank you for Joe nobody ever stays till the end thank you I hope I hope this was date night. Yeah, exactly. That's great. We appreciate that. So the only thing I actually have to add is I testified with Senate at Senate Finance today about extending the deadline for abatement application so or so that would allow for flood related abatements that the state would cover the abatement application. And they seemed very confident that was going to happen. In fact, they and Jill Remic from the tax department testified that they had no issues with that. They were fine. They just wanted to know when they were going to get their money. They, you know, they were like fine we're going to get paid once in April and once in September. So I think they were talking about possibly either August 15 or September 15 for an extension so that would. And, you know, basically, and I did say well it does. So they want to put it into a bill. Maybe the miscellaneous tax bill maybe something else so it's something doesn't get passed for two or three weeks. And I mentioned that that creates a little bit of uncertainty that you would get this April 15 deadline. And then sometime in May when you actually pass this bill, but at least the chair Senator Cummings said, I don't think there's going to be a problem that it is no one that's against this. This is going to go. So who knows. No, I mean, I think the safest practice would be to get as many done by April 15 as possible, but it does. It does. Right. No, but there, you know, there will be more applicants that come in to that's the thing we you know there's no time there's no deadline on applications but presumably by once we get past June 30 now we're talking about taxes for the next fiscal year so. So then, you know, someone's house was just demolished their value will change for next year. It's only this current tax year so I think, you know, by then we should have them all so. It was good news, because that is an expensive portion for us. And I don't really have anything else that time 36. All right. 1036 we are adjourned. Thank you everybody.


Hey everybody, it's Brett, and today I am extremely excited to show you this brand new 2024 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392, yes, this is the $100,000 Wrangler, and we're going to get to the window sticker here at some point in this video, but probably not to the end. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to go walk around this thing, we're going to show you all the options on it, we're going to discuss a little bit of the specs on it as well. And just my honest opinion, I think this is the best looking Wrangler that I have ever seen, hands down the black with the gold trim, the 392, the Rubicon, obviously the stance wheels and tires, and this one is loaded up nicely as well. So this one does have the 6.4 liter V8 Hemi engine, the 392 engine, I'm going to start it up, we're going to listen to that exhaust, it has dual mode exhaust, so definitely stick around for that. If you like the video, subscribe to the YouTube channel, we do videos like this each and every day. Love the front end on the 392, 470 horsepower, 470 foot-pounds of torque, according to Jeep's website, this one can do 4.5 seconds, 0 to 60, and has a 13 second quarter mile. Car and driver got a couple of different numbers there, they said 4 second, 0 to 60, and 12.9 quarter mile at 104 miles per hour. Anyways, this one can tow up to 3500 pounds, and will get you 16 miles per gallon on the highway and 13 city for an average of 14 miles per gallon if you keep your foot out of it. Let's get to the styling on this thing, obviously the gold trim is prevalent throughout the vehicle, you get the gold tow hooks on there, obviously 2024, 392, all the LED lights are standard, this one does have the metal bumpers, I think one of the only options this one doesn't have is the winch on the front, it does have the satin black hood, it has the true cobalt induction hood, this is actually the hydro guide hood, and when we take a look under the hood, I will tell you that hood is very heavy, this one has obviously color matched fenders, it does have the sky one touch power top, we'll take a look at that as well, and you get the bigger wheels and tires with the 392 kit, and you also get the wheel well or fender extensions on here to accommodate those bigger tires, speaking of those tires, you get BF Goodrich All Terrain TA tires, these are LT 31570R 17s, and you get the gold and polished aluminum wheels, and obviously the Wrangler or the Jeep logo on the center there, take a look at the suspension here, it's basically an extreme 35 inch tire and wheel group on this thing, you get the gold trim on the Rubicon decals on the hood as well as around the 392, there as well, one little Easter egg, you get these seven slots on that shroud there, you still get the sandals on here, very hard to see on this one for whatever reason, but they are trail rated badge and Jeep logo all trimmed in gold, you get the rock rails on there, the T50 on the doors, to get those doors off, we did a demo on how to take those doors off, you want to check that out, that's in the upper right hand part of the screen, this one's going to have the sport performance brakes in back, four wheel disc brakes, and you're going to get the tail light extensions on here, it's about an inch, and you can see that you get the dogs on there, there's Ralph and then Louis on the left, LED tail lamps, the metal bumpers in back, you get the hinge gate reinforcement on here, a little bit of notes for the 392, this one is available in all 10 colors for 2024, so I'll try to remember them all, we got black, white, bright white, bikini, zinnith, silver, sarge green, obviously black, and what other colors do we have, high velocity yellow, and Earl, I believe that's all of them, if I missed one let me know in the comments below, just taking a look back here, this one does have the mirrors off, or the doors off mirror kit, I should say, we did a demo on how to put those on, that's kind of a cool demo, here's your case for the side windows, so these side windows pop off because this one has the sky one touch top, so these side windows pop off, we did a demo on that as well, you get the alpine premium sound system, and you get a storage area back here, looks a little different than the normal ones, I'm guessing probably because of the exhaust on here, door hinge, roof, and windshield bolt holders, on there as well you get the seven slots on the back door, and this trim plate is different on the 392, it's obviously all gold and black here, and it's a little bit different because you only have the four door, for the 392 you get the wheel base, wheel base and overall length as well as water fording, and where it's made and built, so that's just a little bit different than any other Wrangler, you also get the gold toe hook back here, the receiver hitch with the four pin and seven pin wiring, so let's take a look at the exhaust before we start it up, you can see it's a single muffler that has a dual tip here, the difference is amazing, but it's true duals all the way back to this muffler, the difference between the exhaust, the performance exhaust mode and the normal mode is quite significant, so we'll start it up here in just a second, but I just wanted to go over what's different on the 392 on the outside, and I think we hit just about everything on there, all right we're already six minutes and so let's go start it up, I'll do the remote start so you can hear it start up, and hopefully it's in performance mode right away, but what I'll do is we'll start it up and then we'll switch modes, I'll pause the video so you can hear the difference. So it's pretty loud, I'm pretty sure this is performance mode, so I'm gonna pause the video and we're gonna turn into normal mode, so this is normal mode or quiet mode obviously, if you don't want to anger your neighbors in the morning, definitely use this mode, but if you want to make your neighbors angry, put it in this mode, all right we'll get somebody to rev it up at the end of the video, but let's get to the interior, so coming into the 392 interior, one thing to note that this red leather interior is standard and is the only color you can get on the 392, love the you know basically hyper red stitching on the seats, I really like the material that Jeep is using in 2024 for the seats and for the steering wheel the leather is it's a really soft touch leather but it's firm, so they definitely did a good job on the padding on that, both of these front seats are powered, 2024 is the first year of the power seats, lumbar on there, this one has the all-weather formats which are an option on this Jeep, you get the Gladiator and Wrangler backed up to each other for 2024, that's new as well, auto headlamps tilt telescopic steering wheel, this one has the Gore-Tex type material on the dash with the red trim, power mirrors, power locks, and just show you the back seats real quick, they are obviously red as well, I'm a little surprised the seatbelts aren't red, let me know what you think in the comments below if they should have did that, and it does have side curtain airbags which is new for 2024 as well, those are standard features, you get the all-weather floor mat back here, they are a topographical design, and down here you get two USBs, two USB C's, and 115 volt 150 watt plug-in, everything's pretty much the same as a normal Wrangler back here and you get the child safety locks on the doors, so you get these 7 inch LCD display standard, obviously the animation at the beginning is different of course for the 392 which looks pretty cool, and obviously the 7 inch LCD display, the leather wrapped steering wheel with the red stitching, adaptive cruise controls, regular cruise controls, bluetooth information center controls, you get the big paddles, paddle shifters on there as well, audio controls on the back of the steering wheel, this one has the Uconnect 5, 12.3 inch touchscreen radio, this one has the factory navigation system, this is the standard radio and the only radio that you can get on the 392, it's supposed to be five times faster than the Uconnect 4, but the navigation is standard on the 392, I'll just show you some of the options, I don't want to get too much into this radio because we could spend a lot of time on it, but here are your different sources, AMFM, Sirius XM radio capabilities and then all your different apps on here, basically this is just links to different parts of the radio, Android Auto, Apple CarPlay capabilities, I believe those are wireless capabilities as well, we can check out the camera system here so you get a backup camera which they've made these cameras HD on the Wranglers which is really nice and then you have the front camera and those grid lines are dynamic meaning that they turn as you turn the steering wheel, they kind of give you a future of where you're going so if you're doing a lot of off-roading you can make sure that you're not going to hit any rocks or avoid logs and stuff like that or hit the rocks how you want to hit them on there and then you can clean the camera glass there as well, off-road pages those are really cool, we'll check those out in a second and then there are all your other apps, but off-road pages you get your steering angle, your sway bar if it's connected, disconnected front axle and rear axle if it's locked or unlocked steering angle as I turn that steering wheel those wheels change and are dynamic as well which is pretty cool you get the transfer case whether it's locked or unlocked you get latitude longitude and altitude on there, accessory great gauges as well pitch and roll this is a really cool feature especially if you're off-roading make sure you know flip the vehicle and anyway so that's everything with the radio pretty standard they've redesigned for 2024 they don't have the big circle um vents on there the vents are under here because of that new radio design they had to change this up here as well also standard for 2024 is the gorilla glass on the windshield because of the angle on these jeeps they're very prone to rock chips and stuff like that so the gorilla glass is supposed to strengthen that windshield just a little bit to help with that situation you get that Gore-Tex finish on the dash over there as well down here you're more tactile volume tune and climate controls you also get a media center with an AUGZ USB and USB-C this is what makes the Rubicon a Rubicon a rough the off-road plus mode sway bar disconnect front and rear locking axles as well really make the Rubicon the Rubicon package you get four auxiliary up-fit switches with that tow package and the four by four shifter on the floor eight-speed automatic transmission you get the Jeep on the top there keyless entry with the flipper key remote start of course on this vehicle that's how we just started it and that's pretty much it for the interior uh did want to show you these side turn airbags like I said 2024 first year that those are standard features so good job jeep assist and sos buttons auto dimming mirror and home link buttons for your garage door security systems and lane systems let's open up the soft top it takes about 20 seconds so we started at about 1251 on this particular video I'm not sure if it matters if the vehicle's running if it goes faster or not I don't think it does but 1251 and that was about 19 seconds you also get different map lights on here they used to be in a big cluster right here now they get two for the driver passenger and then two for the back passengers and then the speakers are a little bit different on the top there as well all right let's go take a look under the hood and then we'll do a final walk around I'll actually turn off all the lights in this picture studio so you can see it all lit up okay under the hood we have the 6.4 liter v8 hemi engine 392 470 horsepower 470 foot pounds of torque you get the gold trim on the valve covers there looks really good and take a look at this hydro guide system so this is a true co induction hood but they don't want the because the hood is so big the scoop is so big if it's raining out you're going to get a lot of water in here and they don't want that water going into the engine obviously so this is the hydro guide system wicks the water away from the actual air intake I'm not sure what it looks like underneath there but I'm sure it's kind of elaborate and there's probably filters and stuff in there too but anyways that's how that looks but this particular system is very heavy to get this hood open it actually takes a little bit of effort to get that hood open because it is so heavy and I can't even do it because I'm holding the gimbal and I can't do it with one hand it's just impossible anyways so that's what it looks like under the hood let's start it up can you hear how it sounds from here it's really not that loud under the hood the exhaust is definitely louder than up here but runs really smooth pretty quietly here's the emission sticker not for sale in states with california emissions so you cannot buy this in california or if you live in a state with california emissions all right uh we're gonna do a final rev of the engine we'll do a final walk around with all the lights on and we'll be all good to go on this one so before we started up here and rev the engine and we're not going to rev it too hard because I just wanted to bring to your attention there is a break-in period for the 6-4 specifically it's on page 69 of your owner's manual and the breaking in occurs mainly during the first 500 miles and continues through the first oil change interval it is recommended for the operator to observe the following driving behaviors during the new vehicle break-in period do not allow the engine to operate at idle for an extended period of time press the accelerator pedal slowly and not more than halfway to avoid rapid acceleration avoid aggressive braking drive with the engine speed below 35 100 rpms maintain vehicle speed below 55 miles per hour press the accelerator pedal slowly and not more than halfway to avoid rapid acceleration in lower gears first to third avoid aggressive braking drive the with the engine below speed below 5000 rpms maintain several maintain vehicle speed below 70 miles per hour and observe local speeds um oh so that's for the first 100 miles and then this is for the 100 to 300 300 to 500 exercise full engine rpm range shifting manually at higher rpms when possible do not perform sustained operation with the accelerator pedal at wide open throttle maintain vehicle speed below 85 and for the first 1500 miles to not participate in track events or driving schools or similar activities so basically after 1500 miles you can really let this thing roar but follow these instructions to avoid any costly repairs um or warranty problems with your vehicle uh because everything is monitored they have computers on these things they can tell you just how much the rpms went up and everything like that here's the original window sticker one to go over this too because it is a hundred thousand dollar wrangler so the base price on these 392s is 91 545 i'm not going to go through everything this one has the 35 inch tire rubicon 392 suspension um everything is standard on the left there like i said i'm not going to spend too much time on this optional equipment is the black clear coat which is 595 windshield tie down by mopar is 40 all weather floor mats are 170 the doors off mirror kit is 195 the performance satin grill is 325 and the sky one touch power top is 3995 total msrp on this one is 98 760 dollars if you want to get your summit price in the upper right hand part screen is a link to our website also in the description below there's a full description and links to our website and everything we basically talked about in this video three or 36 bump into bumper five your 60 powertrain there your miles per gallon you're going to have 4600 dollars of fuel cost if you drive a lot and the greenhouse and smog ratings obviously not the best on this one it's not been rated for safety ratings so let's do a final walk around with all the lights off and then we'll rev it up and we'll be but carefully though and uh we'll be all set to go all right you can see just how nice and bright those lights are they look really good and definitely very nice that jeep made the led lighting groups standard for 2024 on most of the models you can see just how bright they are nice and wide nice and uh white light from there not very yellow uh vast improvement over the halogen lights that came on the wringler for years and the led tail lamps look really good as well as the led license plate light all right let's uh start it up and we'll rev it just a little bit so you can hear that performance exhaust at full song and we'll be all set to go all right we're going to start it up here and then we're going to rev it a little bit and we'll be all set to go now that doesn't make your neighbors now mad i don't know what well all right so that does it everybody thank you so much for checking out the video let me know what you think in the comments below what you liked what you didn't like always looking to improve these videos and just really really excited that we were able to get a video of this jeep wrangler 392 almost everyone that we get on the lot is a an order out and sold before i can even touch it so this one is available in our inventory and it's linked in the description below if it doesn't say sold in the title this one is available and to see more pictures of this jeep or one of other 550 new and use cars trucks scvs minivans and specifically wranglers you can go to summitauto.com full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle all at summitauto.com if you want to check out more hd videos you can go to youtube.com slash summit auto click the bell notifications get updates on the videos i do each and every day as well as having access to one of the largest catalogs of vehicle and specifically jeep wrangler walk rounds on youtube over 9 000 videos and over 500 wrangler videos on there also stay current on our ever-changing and vast new unit used inventory here at summit auto in fact in a second you will see link to subscribe to my youtube channel the upper left a link to all the jeep wrangler videos i've ever done in the upper right a link to this vehicle on our website in the lower left and a link to one of our latest youtube videos in the lower right click those check us out we're super excited to help you with this brand new 2024 jeep wrangler rubicon 392 in black clearcoat thank you so much for checking out the video remember to like subscribe and share the youtube channel i really appreciate it thanks again


For most of us, symmetry is straightforward. A shape is symmetrical if it remains the same after reflection or rotation. For particle physicists, however, a key question is whether all physical laws exhibit a specific type of symmetry called CPT symmetry. Just like a shape that remains the same after you rotate, reflect, and then translate it, a physical law with CPT symmetry remains the same if the particles in an interaction governed by that law undergo three specific transformations, namely, the particles reverse charge, the particles are replaced with their mirror images, and time is run backwards. In a new study from the Alice experiment at CERN's Large Hadron Collider, researchers measured the difference in the mass to charge ratio of a nucleus and its corresponding antinucleus to an unprecedented precision and found evidence suggesting that this fundamental symmetry holds for the force-binding protons and neutrons into nuclei. Since becoming operational in 2009, the Large Hadron Collider has made headlines as the world's largest and most powerful particle accelerator. The project, known as Alice, or a Large Ion Collider experiment, studies the collisions of lead nuclei at very high energies. These collisions create a variety of particles and their corresponding antiparticles, including heavy hydrogen and light helium nuclei and antinuclei. By measuring the energies of these nuclei and antinuclei and the time they take to travel from the point of collision to the detector, the authors were able to determine the mass to charge ratio difference between each nucleus and its corresponding antinucleus. If CPT symmetry is upheld, the mass to charge ratio of each nucleus should be the same as that of its antinucleus. The authors also inferred the differences in the energy required to keep the components of each hydrogen or helium nucleus bound together, called the binding energy, with respect to their antimatter counterparts. Within the measurement errors, the hydrogen nuclei and antinuclei had the same mass to charge ratio, as did the helium nuclei and antinuclei. This result provides further evidence that the forces binding nuclei together do indeed obey CPT symmetry, as any asymmetry would have created a difference in the matter and antimatter mass values. The values for these ratios are between 10 and 100 times more precise than those obtained from previous direct mass measurements in the same systems. Combined with the findings of other studies, these results will help physicists determine which of the many theories about the fundamental laws of our universe are most likely to be true. Because these laws describe the nature of all interactions between matter, insights in this field shed light on many topics within fields ranging from quantum mechanics to cosmology.