Hamas atrocities. Do you think there's a possibility of some kind of coalition involving some of the more moderate Arab states? Would they have a presence in Gaza? I think Israel is first of all checking all options, including the one you mentioned, and I think Israel would like to see the moderate Arab regimes taking responsibility about the Gaza Strip. Let's be very honest, Jeff, no one wants to deal with the Gaza Strip. Let's face it, that's the truth. Egypt don't want them, Israel don't want them, the US don't, nobody wants them. And unfortunately, they can't handle themselves. So what do we do?  I know there is a massive work in Israel, in the US and probably in other countries, to talk about the day after, which is to me very close, I think the day after is actually here. And I believe that countries like Bahrain, like Arab Emirates, moderate Arab countries, which, you know, they are Muslim countries, we are fine with that, but they are strongly, strongly against Errol, strongly against any kind of extreme regime. Maybe they can help when it comes to what should be done in the day after, in the Gaza Strip. And I've known, I didn't hear any comments until now from the Israeli side about, about those videos you showed, but I have no doubt that Israel will welcome those statements, because that's the reason why we went for the Abraham Accord, Abraham Accord just three years ago. Let me bring back into the conversation, General Hanan Geffen. As the fighting in Gaza will turn soon to the southern part of the Strip, I want to ask about the Israeli army's ability to screen, I mean civilians, the plan for civilians, there's, with hundreds of thousands of families now, part of the southern Gaza Strip, they fled the north. Will they be told to return back to the north? Can the IDF filter out terrorists among civilians, or will everyone be kind of stuck there in the battles to come? It's long, it will be, certainly will be a long process because we are, I assume there will be months until we may say that Hamas has lost his power, which is one of the, lost his capabilities, is one of the targets of Israel. And then there will be a huge task, rebuilding Gaza and getting people back to their places. And here we already started to see, as along the, what you have already mentioned, Arab countries and Emirates and so on already sending equipment, will be Gaza and getting people back to their places. And here we already started to see, as along the, what you have already mentioned, Arab countries and Emirates and so on already sending equipment, will be, and then there will be a huge task, rebuilding Gaza and getting people back to their places. And here we already started to see, as along the, what you have already mentioned, Arab countries and Emirates and so on already sending equipment, will be, will be, will be as well. On the ground, the battles deep inside Gaza continue to intensify. The IDF this morning announcing the deaths of two more soldiers killed in action. That's seven IDF soldiers killed in battle over just the last two days. 65 soldiers have died since the beginning of the war. And this is new video. Just released from the IDF of elite combat forces operating deep inside Gaza. Last night, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu justifying the daily humanitarian aid and fuel deliveries that have begun to enter the Strip, saying it is crucial to maintaining U.S. and global support as the war goes on. Israel abides by the laws of war. That's how our army works. The most moral army in the world. Humanitarian aid is also vital to maintain international support. Without humanitarian aid even our best friends will find it difficult to support us over time and it will be very difficult for us to continue the war until the end. Let's turn immediately to I-20's correspondent Robert Swift who joins us from the Israel-Lebanon border in the North. Robert, what has been happening in recent minutes? So in the last half an hour there's been three separate security incidents that have taken place along this central zone of Israel's northern border. These were a combination of rocket alert sirens and aircraft warning sirens. Now the first of these took place in three communities around the keyboards of Iran. This was quickly followed by another series of alerts just to the east of where we are. Both of these involved aircraft alerts, most likely a drone. And then on top of this there was rocket alerts going on in the community of Rosh Pina which is a bit further to the east. Now these come on the back of rocket sirens that went off in the far northeast of Israel's northern border around the community of Mar Galeot. Now it's understood there, this took place about an hour ago, now it's understood there that those rocket sirens were in fact due to an Israeli interceptor missile that was fired that then intercepted a drone that was attempting to cross into Israeli airspace. Now due to the shrapnel that can be thrown out by these interceptor missiles the rocket sirens do go off but that incident along with the incidents half an hour ago suggests that it is possible that Hezbollah are testing the border defenses along the whole of the north and northeastern edges of the border sending multiple drones into this airspace. Now it's worth caveatting this by saying that false alarms do occasionally happen but it does appear that Hezbollah are testing the defenses here. And just to remind our viewers that both sorry, all of these incidents on the eastern end of the border and the central end of the border they come following mortar attacks that took place at the far western end of the border earlier this morning and this very much does give the impression that right along the border Hezbollah are testing the defenses. A rainy dreary overcast day in much of Israel especially in the north the low visibility and the rain could this be having an impact as the events of today unfold? It's definitely possible you know earlier we speculated that it might actually dampen things down but this doesn't seem to be the case now as to how much impact the weather is likely to have on the drones that the minute doesn't appear to be clear especially as we've seen what appears to be at least two incidents of drone if not more visibility is down and that in itself could be assisting Hezbollah and getting its teams closer so that they can land then launch their drones Robert Swift for us on the on the Israel-Lebanon border in the north of Israel stay safe thank you so much for that update I want to turn now to Seema Schein Seema's a former Mossad agent and the former deputy head of strategic affairs with the Israeli National Security Council thank you so much for being with us in your assessment we have seen an increase in attacks from Hezbollah over the northern Lebanon border Is Hezbollah intentionally trying to increase the pressure to increase the attacks? Do you believe in recent days? Well, first of all it's not the most increase we had a week ago one day that was much more than that but I think you are right to ask what is the intention of Hezbollah and what I understand is one they want to be involved every day so that they can show that what Iran has established in the region the resistance front is operational is walking is supporting Hamas therefore we see also from Yemen from time to time rockets and UAVs from Hamas from Hezbollah point of view it looks that it's important to support Hamas but there is a limit to what they want to do for the time being it was also expressed by Nasrallah in his last two speeches he wants to make Israel to make Israel actually what he is saying everyone is that he by doing what he is doing on the border by attacking Israel has to put a lot of soldiers on the border they those soldiers are not available for the south so this is the contribution that he is showing and of course there is a huge achievement for him with the people that were evacuated from their houses on the border so on one hand he has he can portrait support for Hamas and bothering Israel very much on the other hand he's paying a lot he has around 100 of his people that were killed a lot of places that he was hiding before are destroyed so the balance sheet is a mixed one he has some achievements he is willing to continue and do it in order to make Israel occupied with the northern border I think for the time being he doesn't want to go into a full-scale war you mentioned the evacuation of Israeli families in the north dozens of communities have had to be evacuated it's unclear when they'll be able to return the attacks are continuing daily what will it take for Israelis to feel safe who live in the north of Israel that's a huge question and a very difficult one before the decision makers in Israel because everything we saw with Hamas on the south is much more in bigger numbers and bigger and better equipped when it comes to Hezbollah the whole plan of infiltrating the border into the kibbutzim and villages and occupying them is a plan that was planned by Hezbollah and actually Hamas has learned from Hezbollah so from the point of view of the people that were evacuated on the north once there is no change on the border it will be very difficult to come back of course Israel understands it and as you can listen also to the military personnel that is talking a spokesman that is talking every day we understand it but at the same time since Israel decided to concentrate on the south we don't open a full-scale war with Hezbollah the question will be on our table to decide when the war in Gaza come to its end and the question will be how long Hezbollah will continue is a text after the war is stopped in the south if Hezbollah stops I assume Israel will start by concentrating on the political side trying to make sure that the security council resolution 1701 will be fulfilled and Hezbollah will be will not be able to go down to the border to the Israeli border after the Litany River which is the security council resolution we don't think that Hezbollah cares too much about security council resolutions but that will give a legitimacy to Israel for some development some steps that it can do on the on the border or the mutual border in order to fulfill to make sure that Hezbollah is not immediately on the border that they are a little bit far away and that on the border we don't see their points where they had before we don't see any people walking on the border looking into Israel everything will have to be changed as well as the Israeli deployment of the army around the villages and on the border so we will have to rethink everything that was before because people will not come back to their homes if the situation remains as it was on the 6th of October yep an increased buffer zone on the north I want to ask your assessment on Iran here what do you make of the reports that Iran has told Hamas leaders that we were not informed we were not given the full scope of the picture of what you were planning on October 7th so we cannot support you further what do you make of the Hamas Iranian relationship and Iran's efforts perhaps to get Hezbollah I'll be unsuccessful for now to open up a wider front why hasn't that worked why can't Iran pressure Hezbollah more I think first of all for your knowledge Iran has denied that the leader has said these things to Hamas and I doubt whether he said it so openly so bluntly I suppose that he might have said that he is not going to open a full-scale war including Iran directly because of the current situation the international situation and other reasons now the issue with Hezbollah is not that Iran has to push them it is a situation where both sides are consulting each other there is no the relationship between Hezbollah and Iran is not that Iran gives an order and Hezbollah is just fulfilling it their relations are that they are cooperating they are thinking together they are evaluating the situation and I think Iran doesn't want to spend if I can use this word to spend Hezbollah for Hamas Hezbollah is the diamond in the crown of all the resistance one and from Iran's point of view it is there in order to save Iran if Iran is attacked it's not in order to save Hamas and of course this is something therefore we see the level of atrocity on the border the level of clashes on the border but not more than that because at the end of the day no one neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants to see a full-scale war that Israel will destroy the Dachia in Beirut and others that and you know on the south of Israel on the south of Lebanon on our northern border most of the population is the Shia population they are supporters of Hezbollah and they don't want to be in a situation like Gaza so there are many many reasons and the most important one is the American presence so there is a complex of reasons why both Iran and Hezbollah decided that this level of occupying Israel on the border is good enough Seema thank you so much for your analysis I want to turn in studio here to political and international security analyst Martin Himmel the war with Hezbollah the situation clearly unsustainable but it's unclear what will happen in the future especially when things change in Gaza when the IDF winds down the ground up campaign in Gaza will the IDF and your estimation turn to the north or will they hope other means of restoring deterrence well my crystal ball is a little bit limited on that but I'll try to do the best I can I would say that if Israel has not struck heavily into Hezbollah territory now I think that if it does reach some sort of calm in Egypt not Egypt I'm sorry in Gaza it is going to look for some sort of modus vivendi some sort of working relationship to keep some status quo of quiet with Hezbollah I'm not so sure Hezbollah will be against it because Hezbollah knows it can't maintain a low level war without Israel ratcheting up to a high level war because too much of the population is not living there the north is shut down it's in a tolerable situation so if Gaza reaches a status quo maybe Hezbollah will be looking for some status quo in the north I don't think it's going to be what the inhabitants of the north want a complete pushback of Hezbollah but it might be something that they could live with also today U.S. President Joe Biden making clear that he wants to see an international coalition temporarily rule the Gaza Strip Biden also writing in an op-ed in the Washington Post that he wants to see eventually a revitalized Palestinian Authority return to power in Gaza still with a long-term goal of a two-state solution Prime Minister Netanyahu says the PA must be overhauled before Israel could even consider a return to governance I think that the Palestinian Authority in its current form is unable to accept responsibility over Gaza after we fought in Gaza and did all we did Will we hand it over to them? Abbas 43 days after the most terrible massacre of the Jews since the Holocaust Soudal refuses to condemn it His senior ministers are celebrating what happened His Authority pays the killers and their families You know very well how they educate their children If there is no change in this matter then what have we done? In that same op-ed Biden also threatening to issue visa bans against Israeli extremists in the West Bank who are committing violent acts against Palestinian civilians there Let's go live now to our senior defense corresponding to Jonathan Regev on the Israel-Gaza border Jonathan Rocket, Sirens and incoming fire from Gaza as well in the last several minutes What's the latest where you are? We're hearing a lot of artillery Israeli artillery this morning This is due to the fact that the fighting now is centered on the eastern neighborhoods of Gaza such as Geballia and Sajair which are actually closer to us than the western part of Gaza where the Shefa hospital is for example So this is a situation here on the ground and then the activity is ongoing We also had Sirens in several communities here in southern Israel The fighting is obviously still ongoing Tell me more about being a general sense how the battle is unfolding I mean we have sadly in the last two days a high IDF death toll 7 soldiers killed in combat over the Israeli weekend We have new video from the IDF of elite commando units operating inside Gaza city What is the game plan? The game plan is basically to continue in neighborhood after neighborhood home after home keep on going into them and understanding that you encounter you encounter a position when you come in you encounter terrorists and it comes with victims and it comes with casualties Israel has basically to cleanse all of the area from terrorists which is difficult because many of them are underground This is something that takes time and comes with their casualties first in the northern Gaza strip and then in the southern Gaza strip How will the fight in the south do you think Jonathan be different? I mean will it be very similar to the way that the battle the ground invasion unfolded in the north or because hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the north were told to go south because Hamas is in the south now as well because maybe the hostages are in the south will the south look different? will it be a different campaign? It might be different exactly because of what you mentioned about roughly one million at least hundreds of thousands of Gazans from the north fled to the south once you go to the south you meet all of them down there so it can have an effect on the fighting the strategy might be similar but the difficulties of course due to this high presence of civilians could be much more difficult A lot of questions of course if the hostages are in the south if the Hamas leadership if Muhammadif and Sinwar or if they might be in the south as well a lot of attention already turning down there Yes exactly because of course there's an understanding that along this process of fleeing south terrorists might have fled there the leadership perhaps understanding that these really forces are in if they were really in Gaza city maybe fleeing closer to Kanyunas and let's remember Ichi Sinwar is originally from Kanyunas maybe it's easier for him to hide there many questions so far with little answers but we did hear minister of defense Joav Gal on saying last night that the force that is currently felt in the northern Gaza Strip will shortly be felt in the southern Gaza Strip a hint as to the fact that it may be that the battles may be heading south as well Jonathan with that report thank you so much for the update and we're getting now more specific more detailed reaction from Arab leaders this weekend about their thoughts on Hamas and also the Israeli reaction I condemn Hamas unequivocally this is so everybody in the room can understand that I stand on the side of civilians and innocents and not on the side of political posturing the attacks on October 7th were barbaric I unequivocally condemn the air campaign that resulted in the death of over 11,000 people in Gaza 4,700 of which are children and let me just make clear as the crown prince said yesterday I condemn Hamas's barbaric attack on civilians on October 7th but I also must also condemn the equally barbaric and more savage attack of the Israelis on Palestinian civilians not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank back here in studio Martin your reaction in response to President Biden's op-ed calling for in the near term after the war an international presence an international coalition that would be able to maintain security and come in Gaza while long-term governance is being worked out it's a great idea the question is is it a pragmatic idea it's not going to be a situation where Israel is going to go into the West into Gaza completely root out Hamas and it's going to be quiet and an international force comes in that's highly unlikely there's too much of a fluid situation there where they could have a low-level guerrilla warfare you can have low-level attacks the army coming in and out all the time because of it and will an international force or an international community apparatus tolerate that will it accept that certainly not the Palestinian Authority in its limited form right now that's why Biden's suggesting maybe an international force but it has to have teeth it has to withstand the possibility of casualties there'll be a target too Hamas isn't going to go away quietly even if it's destroyed to a large degree it will want to shoot and fire on anybody that prevents its rule there so there's a lot of questions there whether there's such a international apparatus could function but we heard you know for the crown princes of Bahrain of Saudi Arabia is there a chance perhaps that we could see Saudi Arabia have an insight they have a vested interest for their security for their future if you want to have a presence in Gaza Strip to come in or the risks are too great for Saudi forces or peacekeeping forces to be anywhere near the Gaza Strip well it would be great in the sense if they would come in but the question is can they handle losses can they handle casualties can they handle the fact that Israeli forces might be based on the edge of Gaza and becoming in and out every day to go after these people it's going to be a politically sensitive situation and only the future will tell to that I don't know the Arab international forces would agree to a situation like that I want to ask about the language you is the very particular very careful word choices here from President Biden saying that the PA now could not return to Gaza but it could if it was revitalized and unclear what exactly that term may mean you could interpret that however you want a revitalized PA would return to governance in the Netanyahu in a similar vein saying currently the PA is unfit to rule but not ruling out changes to the PA that may allow them to return is the US do you think in alignment here with the Israelis could there be are they trying to pave the road of some kind of adjusted revamped PA to return to power and will Israeli citizens tolerate that I think the prime minister Netanyahu has a very different idea of what a revamped PA looks like compared to President Biden President Biden is talking about PA that's emboldened with more firepower more political power that means Israel has to give it to the PA it has to allow it I don't see prime minister Netanyahu doing that in the constellation of the government he has right now which is trying to actually dismantle the PA to weaken the PA so a lot of changes has to happen politically in Israel for Biden to get the PA that he wants the PA that the prime minister wants is really a very crippled PA that will just take over Gaza in such a way to allow full Israeli movement in control and I don't think that that's something that the president of the United States envisions or something that's workable in Gaza and the PA had been in control of the Gaza Strip before yes it did and it lost in a serious war to Hamas that kind of control I want to end by talking about the hostage situation according to a report today in the Washington Post according to many reports a deal may be close we know that a deal is being worked on that's confirmed from Netanyahu is confirmed from the White House nothing is final nothing has been signed but there does seem to be movement towards some kind of release for ceasefire plan and in any way you cut it it would apparently be a fraction of the hostages a portion of them maybe the women and children only maybe a portion what do you make of that in exchange for a multi-day ceasefire well סינואר The leader of Hamas has correctly assessed that Israel's weak point is its humanity its compassion for the hostages and he's pressing on that as much as possible because his issue is survival and the only way he can have that survival are prolonged ceasefires at this stage and without that I don't think he's going to be releasing any hostages and on the whole though I think that this constant debate about what the Sinwar want where is the negotiations I think it hurts Israel a great deal to have such an open internal debate about it because it just shows Sinwar weakness and maybe he could press more and get more somewhere people have to be a little more quiet about it in Israel and grit their teeth and let the talks go and basically talk about it when it's real and the ceasefire talks is there concern on your end as an analyst that it would allow Hamas to move supplies move weapons reorganize regroup in an effective manner or at this point the IDF has their gains are too great to overcome if they could get a flood of petrol and a flood of armaments and a flood of weapons it would be very bad this ceasefire but I don't see Hamas getting a big flood of gas it's a trickle at this point it's a trickle exactly I don't see them getting massive rearmaments yes they can move forces around and bolster certain areas it will be a bit of a setback for the IDF but I don't think it's going to be a game changer מרטניהמל thank you so much for your analysis again rockets in the north of israel in the last hour and rockets in the south the attacks continuing both ends here no reports of any impacts or casualties at least one interception in the north perhaps of an unidentified aerial object might have been some kind of drone but again the fighting continues and it's even intensifying in Gaza as the war goes on we're going out for a short break stay with us right here on i24news we're going to have more live team coverage from both the south of israel and the north and more expert analysis and reports here on the channel we'll be right back soon stay with us and thank you so much for watching a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where is she as our soldiers are fighting on the front line but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well תלו יבי לב תלו יבי לב שםי אי 24news just at this hour rocket attacks this morning from both the south and the north קמאס launching a volley of rockets from Gaza towards Israel and also Hezbollah attacking Israel from the north with rockets mortar fire and apparently drones as well on the ground the battles deep inside Gaza continue to intensify the IDF this morning announcing the deaths of two more soldiers killed in action that's seven IDF soldiers killed in battle over just the last two days 65 soldiers had died since the beginning of the war and this is new video just released from the IDF of elite combat forces operating deep inside Gaza last night Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu justifying the daily humanitarian aid and fuel deliveries that have begun to enter the strip saying it is crucial to maintaining U.S. and global support as the war goes on ישראל ישראל הבהדה במהלבי שזה אוהב המהלבי בו האדם האדם האדם האדם האדם האדם without humanitarian aid even our best friends will find it difficult to support us over time and it will be very difficult for us to continue the war until the end נכון, כפי כפי נכון בוקר בו בוקר בוilles בוקר בו בוקר בו בוקר בו בוקר שתי אתember intercepted a drone that was attempting to cross into Israeli airspace. Now due to the shrapnel that can be thrown out by these interceptor missiles, the rocket sirens do go off, but that incident along with the incidents half an hour ago suggests that it is possible that Hezbollah are testing the bordered defences along the whole of the north and northeastern edges of the border sending multiple drones into this airspace.  זה נבחר, עוד כבר. נכון, שזה לא נקוד כשזה לא נקוד כך, עכשיו, כאילו, איך הרבה פעמים ככה נכנסו על דרונות, זאת אומרת, זה לא נסביר לך לך, שכמובן, כשאנחנו רואים, שכמובן, יש שני דרונות, אם לא יותר, זאת אומרת, זאת אומרת, וזה, בגלל, אפשר לעשות חזבולה, ולמדעת את הישראלים קצת, כשכמובן, שכמובן, להגיד דרונות. רבצוי, לך, על הישראל-לבנון בורטר, בבקשה של הישראל, תודה רבה for that update. אני רוצה לנסה עכשיו לסימה שיין, סימה זו פורמר מסעד האג'ק, ופורמר דפי דה של סטרטיגיק האפארס, עם הישראלי נשאקריטי-קונסל. תודה רבה for being with us. בבקשה שלך, אנחנו רואים אינקריסטים של חסבילה בין נורדון ולבנון בורדון, חסבילה זו אינקריסטים לנסה אינקריסטים, חסבילה לנסה? Well, first of all, it's not the most increase we had a week ago, one day that was much more than that, but I think you are right to ask what is the intention of Hisbala, and what I understand is one, they want to be involved every day so that they can show that what Iran has established in the region, the resistance front is operational, is working, is supporting Hamas. Therefore, we see also from Yemen from time to time rockets and UAVs, from Hamas, from Hisbala point of view, it looks that it's important to support Hamas, but there is a limit to what they want to do for the time being. It was also expressed by Nasrallah in his last two speeches. He wants to make Israel, to make Israel, actually what he is saying everyone is that he, by doing what he is doing on the border, by attacking, Israel has to put a lot of soldiers on the border, those soldiers are not available for the South. So this is the contribution that he is showing and of course there is a huge achievement for him with the people that were evacuated from their houses on the border. So on one hand he can portrait and support for Hamas and bothering Israel very much. On the other hand, he's paying a lot. He has around 100 of his people that were killed. A lot of places that he was hiding before are destroyed. So the balance sheet is a mixed one. He has some achievements. He is willing to continue and do it in order to make Israel occupied with the northern border. I think for the time being, he doesn't want to go into a full-scale war. You mentioned the evacuation of Israeli families in the north. Dozens of communities have had to be evacuated. It's unclear when they'll be able to return. The attacks are continuing daily. What will it take for Israelis to feel safe who live in the north of Israel? That's a huge question and a very difficult one before the decision makers in Israel because everything we saw with Hamas on the south is much more in bigger numbers and bigger and better equipped when it comes to Hezbollah. The whole plan of infiltrating the border into the Kibbutzim and villages and occupying them is a plan that was planned by Hezbollah and actually Hamas has learned from Hezbollah. So from the point of view of the people that were evacuated on the north, once there is no change on the border, it will be very difficult to come back. Of course, Israel understands it and as you can listen also to the military personnel that is talking, Spokesman that is talking every day, we understand it. But at the same time, since Israel decided to concentrate on the south, we don't open a full-scale war with Hezbollah. The question will be on our table to decide when the war in Gaza comes to its end and the question will be how long Hezbollah will continue is a text after the war is stopped in the south. If Hezbollah stops, I assume Israel will start by concentrating on the political side, trying to make sure that the Security Council Resolution 1701 will be fulfilled and Hezbollah will not be able to go down to the border, to the Israeli border after the Litani River, which is the Security Council Resolution. We don't think that Hezbollah cares too much about Security Council Resolutions, but that will give legitimacy to Israel for some development, some steps that it can do on the mutual border in order to fulfill, to make sure that Hezbollah is not immediately on the border, that they are a little bit far away and that on the border we don't see the points where they had before, we don't see any people walking on the border looking into Israel. Everything will have to be changed as well as the Israeli deployment of the army around the villages and on the border. So we will have to rethink everything that was before because people will not come back to their homes if the situation remains as it was on the 6th of October. Yeah, an increased buffer zone on the north. I want to ask your assessment on Iran here. What do you make of the reports that Iran has told Hamas leaders that we were not informed, we were not given the full scope of the picture of what you were planning on October 7th so we cannot support you further? What do you make of the Hamas-Iranian relationship and Iran's efforts perhaps to get Hezbollah, albeit unsuccessful for now, to open up a wider front? Why hasn't that worked? Why can't Iran pressure Hezbollah more? I think, first of all, for your knowledge, Iranians have denied that their leader has said these things to Hamas and I doubt whether he said it so openly and so bluntly. I suppose that he might have said that he is not going to open a full-scale war, including Iran directly, because of the current situation, the international situation and other reasons. Now, the issue with Hezbollah is not that Iran has to push them. It is a situation where both sides are consulting each other. There is no, the relationship between Hezbollah and Iran is not that Iran gives an order and Hezbollah is just fulfilling it. Their relations are that they are cooperating, they are thinking together, they are evaluating the situation and I think Iran doesn't want to spend, if I can use this word, to spend Hezbollah for Hamas. Hezbollah is the diamond in the crown of all the resistance one and from Iran's point of view, it is there in order to save Iran if Iran is attacked. It's not in order to save Hamas and of course this is something, therefore we see the level of atrocity on the border, the level of clashes on the border but not more than that because at the end of the day, no one, neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants to see a full-scale war that Israel will destroy the Dachia and Beirut and others. And you know, on the south of Israel, on the south of Lebanon, on our northern border, most of the population is the Shia population. They are supporters of Hezbollah and they don't want to be in a situation like Gaza. So there are many, many reasons and the most important one is the American presence. So there is a complex of reasons why both Iran and Hezbollah decided that this level of occupying Israel on the border is good enough. Seema, thank you so much for your analysis. I want to turn in studio here to political and international security analyst, Martin Himmel. The war with Hezbollah, the situation clearly unsustainable but it's unclear what will happen in the future, especially when things change in Gaza, when the IDF winds down the ground-up campaign in Gaza, will the IDF and your estimation turn to the north or will they hope other means of restoring deterrents? Well, my crystal ball is a little bit limited on that but I'll try to do the best I can. I would say that if Israel has not struck heavily into Hezbollah territory now, I think that if it does reach some sort of calm in Egypt, not Egypt, I'm sorry, in Gaza, it is going to look for some sort of modus vivendi, some sort of working relationship to keep some status quo of quiet with Hezbollah. I'm not so sure Hezbollah will be against it because Hezbollah knows it can't maintain a low-level war without Israel ratcheting up to a high-level war because too much of the population is not living there. The north is shut down, it's in a tolerable situation. So if Gaza reaches a status quo, maybe Hezbollah will be looking for some status quo in the north. I don't think it's going to be what the inhabitants of the north want, a complete pushback of Hezbollah, but it might be something that they could live with. Also today, U.S. President Joe Biden making clear that he wants to see an international coalition temporarily rule the Gaza Strip. Biden also writing in an op-ed in the Washington Post that he wants to see eventually a revitalized Palestinian Authority return to power in Gaza still with a long-term goal of a two-state solution. Prime Minister Netanyahu says the PA must be overhauled before Israel could even consider a return to governance. I think that the Palestinian Authority in its current form is unable to accept responsibility over Gaza. After we fought in Gaza and did all we did, will we hand it over to them? Abbas, 43 days after the most terrible massacre of the Jews since the Holocaust, still refuses to condemn it. His senior ministers are celebrating what happened. His Authority pays the killers and their families. You know very well how they educate their children. If there is no change in this matter, then what have we done? In that same op-ed, Biden also threatening to issue visa bans against Israeli extremists in the West Bank who are committing violent acts against Palestinian civilians there. Let's go live now to our senior defense corresponding to Jonathan Regev on the Israel-Gaza border. Jonathan, rocket sirens and incoming fire from Gaza as well in the last several minutes. What's the latest where you are? We're hearing a lot of artillery, Israeli artillery this morning. This is due to the fact that the fighting now is centered on the eastern neighborhoods of Gaza, such as Jibalia and Sajair, which are actually closer to us than the western part of Gaza where the Shifa hospital is, for example. So this is a situation here on the ground. And then the activity is ongoing. We also had sirens in several communities here in southern Israel. The fighting is obviously still ongoing. Tell me more about, being a general sense, how the battle is unfolding. I mean we have sadly in the last two days a high IDF death toll, seven soldiers killed in combat over the Israeli weekend. We have new video from the IDF of elite commando units operating inside Gaza City. What is the game plan? The game plan is basically to continue in neighborhood after neighborhood, home after home, keep on going into them and understanding that you encounter you encounter opposition when you come in, you encounter terrorists and it comes with victims and it comes with casualties. Israel has basically to cleanse all of the area from terrorists which is difficult because many of them are underground. This is something that takes time and comes with their casualties first in the northern Gaza Strip and then in the southern Gaza Strip. How will the fight in the south do you think Jonathan be different? I mean will it be very similar to the way that the battle, the ground invasion unfolded in the north or because hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the north were told to go south because Hamas is in the south now as well because maybe the hostages are in the south. Will the south look different? Will it be a different campaign? It might be different exactly because of what you mentioned about roughly one million at least hundreds of thousands of Gazans from the north fled to the south. Once you go to the south you meet all of them down there so it can have an effect on the fighting, the strategy might be similar but the difficulties of course due to this high presence of civilians could be much more difficult. A lot of questions of course if the hostages are in the south if the Hamas leadership if Muhammadif in Sinwar or if they might be in the south as well a lot of attention already turning down there. Yes exactly because of course there's an understanding that along this process of fleeing south terrorists must have might have fled there. The leadership perhaps understanding that these really forces are in if they were really in Gaza city maybe fleeing closer to Kanyounis and let's remember Iches Sinwar is originally from Kanyounis and maybe it's easier for him to hide there. Many questions so far with little answers but we did hear minister of defense Yoav Galan saying last night that the force that is currently felt in the northern Gaza Strip will shortly be felt in the southern Gaza Strip a hint as to the fact that it may be that the battles may be heading south as well. Jonathan with that report thank you so much for the update and we're getting now more specific more detailed reaction from Arab leaders this weekend about their thoughts on Hamas and also the Israeli reaction. I condemn Hamas unequivocally This is so everybody in the room can understand that I stand on the side of civilians and innocence and not on the side of political posturing. The attacks on October 7th were barbaric. I unequivocally condemn the air campaign that resulted in the death of over 11,000 people in Gaza 4,700 of which are children. And let me just make clear as the Crown Prince said yesterday I condemn Hamas's barbaric attack on civilians on October 7th but I also must also condemn the equally barbaric and more savage attack of the Israelis on Palestinian civilians not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank. Back here in studio Martin, your reaction in response to President Biden's op-ed calling for in the near term after the war an international presence an international coalition that would be able to maintain security and come in Gaza while long-term governance is being worked out. It's a great idea the question is is it a pragmatic idea? It's not going to be a situation where Israel is going to go into the West into Gaza completely root out Hamas and it's going to be quiet and an international force comes in. That's highly unlikely. There's too much of a fluid situation there where they could have a low-level guerrilla warfare you can have low-level attacks the army coming in and out all the time because of it and will an international force or an international community apparatus tolerate that? Will it accept that? Certainly not the Palestinian Authority in its limited forum right now. That's why Biden's suggesting maybe an international force but it has to have teeth it has to withstand the possibility of casualties. There'll be a target too. Hamas isn't going to go away quietly even if it's destroyed to a large degree it will want to shoot and fire on anybody that prevents its rule there. So there's a lot of questions there whether there's such an international apparatus could function. But we heard for the crown princes of Bahrain of Saudi Arabia is there a chance perhaps that we could see Saudi Arabia have decided they have invested its interest for their security for their future if you want to have a presence in Gaza Strip to come in or the risks are too great for Saudi forces or peacekeeping forces to be anywhere near the Gaza Strip. Well it would be great in the sense if they would come in but the question is can they handle losses can they handle casualties can they handle the fact that Israeli forces might be based on the edge of Gaza and becoming in and out every day to go after these people it's going to be a politically sensitive situation and only the future will tell to that. I don't know if the the Arab international forces would agree to a situation like that. I want to ask about the language used the very particular very careful word choices here from President Biden saying that the PA now could not return to Gaza but it could if it was revitalized and unclear what exactly that term may mean you could interpret that however you want a revitalized PA would return to governance in the Netanyahu in a similar vein saying currently the PA is unfit to rule but not ruling out changes to the PA that may allow them to return is the US do you think in alignment here with the Israelis could there be are they trying to pave the road of some kind of adjusted revamped PA to return to power and will Israeli citizens tolerate that? I think the Prime Minister Netanyahu has a very different idea of what a revamped PA looks like compared to President Biden President Biden is talking about PA that's emboldened with more firepower more political power that means Israel has to give it to the PA it has to allow it I don't see Prime Minister Netanyahu doing that in the constellation of the government he has right now which is trying to actually dismantle the PA to weaken the PA so a lot of changes has to happen politically in Israel for Biden to get the PA that he wants the PA that the Prime Minister wants is really a very crippled PA that will just take over Gaza in such a way to allow full Israeli movement in control and I don't think that that's something that the president of the United States envisions or something that's workable in Gaza where and the PA had been in control of the Gaza Strip before yes it did and it lost in a serious war to Hamas that kind of control I want to end by talking about the hostage situation according to a report today in the Washington Post according to many reports a deal may be close we know that a deal is being worked on that's confirmed from Netanyahu is confirmed from the White House nothing is final nothing has been signed but there does seem to be movement towards some kind of release for ceasefire plan and in any way you cut it it would apparently be a fraction of the passages a portion of them maybe the women and children only maybe a portion what do you make of that in exchange for a multi-day ceasefire Well, Sinwar the leader of Hamas has correctly assessed that Israel's weak point is its humanity its compassion for the hostages and he's pressing on that as much as possible because his issue is survival and the only way he can have that survival is our prolonged ceasefires at this stage and without that I don't think he's going to be releasing any hostages and on the whole though I think that this constant debate about what the Sinwar want where is the negotiations I think it hurts Israel a great deal to have such an open internal debate about it because it just shows Sinwar weakness and maybe he could press more and get more somewhere people have to be a little more quiet about it in Israel and grit their teeth and let the talks go and basically talk about it when it's real and the ceasefire talks is there a concern and you're right as an analyst that it would allow Hamas to move supplies move weapons reorganize regroup in an effective manner or at this point the IDF has their gains are too great to overcome if they could get a flood of petrol and a flood of armaments and a flood of weapons it would be very bad this ceasefire but I don't see Hamas getting a big flood of gas it's a trickle at this point it's a trickle exactly I don't see them getting massive rearmaments yes they can move forces around and bolster certain areas it will be a bit of a setback for the IDF but I don't think it's going to be a game changer מרדה חמור thank you so much for your analysis again rockets in the north of israel and the last hour and rockets in the south the attacks continuing both ends here no reports of any impacts or casualties at least one interception in the north perhaps of an unidentified aerial object might have been some kind of drone but again the fighting continues and it's even intensifying in Gaza as the war goes on we're going out for a short break stay with us right here on i20 for news we're going to have more live team coverage from both the south of israel and the north and more expert analysis and reports here on the channel we'll be right back soon stay with us and thank you so much for watching


Pop smoke We're gonna be getting one out here in a second probably the next like 30 minutes So that in the indication You can like spin around stuff


So an FTP team is here to talk to you about And Alexander Schmel and Mark Heimers Hello Yeah, we're gonna talk to you about a couple of things today. We're gonna talk about the roles of the FTP team within With in deviant We're gonna talk about the roles of the FTP team within deviant Alex is going to talk about the new queue and then I'm going to talk about DAC So we're gonna start by Introducing the FTP team as a whole there are two groups of people similar to the release team and various other ones now We have people in the FTP master or that's myself Is that to me or somebody else? Myself Mark Heimers your guest, but again I've done there toss and burner and as FTP assistant here I've done the right right to Schmel Mike O'Connor Ansgar. I'm sorry. Ansgar. I can't And and Luca who's surname I also can't pronounce As you can see they let the only English person pronounce all of the German names Alex is going to start by taking you through a lot of the things that we see in the new queue But there are other roles for the FTP team also our main roles to make sure that the archive software keeps running that updates Come in they get processed they get checked against the GPG key ring They get sanity checked and then they get placed in the right location The other role main role of the team is soon To deal with keeping the archive legal that used to simply mean looking at copyright licenses making sure everything was notated Properly that we understood we didn't have anything really dodgy in there That is becoming slightly more difficult recently with issues to do with trademarks and patents There's going to be various discussions through debcom form that and obviously with sacks Work on the patent policy that FFLC did recently that's all coming into the fall The other things are supporting teams that depend on the archive the release and security teams are the obvious And finally updating the archive software as and when we need to What do we do well as I said we do the new queue we decruffed the archive so some are some removals aren't automatic some are We deal with override changes and we deal with the archive maintenance We don't and this is a sometimes a misunderstanding. We don't control the contents of testing the gentleman sitting in front of me They're the release team control the contents of testing So when it goes wrong blame them and we don't deal with the build demons We don't deal with binning amuse. That's the build the team and I can't see Phil Kern. Where is he? He's missing, but that's all his fault effectively So you need to complain to him about that although we do provide mechanisms which help with some of these these areas I'm going to for shameless self-praise hand over to Alex who enjoys that sort of thing. Well Thanks for the Thanks for the introduction And I started by showing you the current state of the new queue Which is Nearly invisible. I think I think as we are speaking we have 20 packages in the new queue and that's And that's just because I wasn't able to Reject or affect some packages over the wireless LAN Yeah, as you can clearly see here's a small line When squeeze was frozen we have a continuous Upload I think at that point someone complains that the new queue is growing so huge So we started to accept some package Until I think about here We accepted a postgresql version which kind of broke the archive When the release team asked us not to accept any new packages anymore So again, we have the usual quotes during the freeze and here at that line Squeeze was released You could you can see also Well, it took us two months to recover from the release and then just Three weeks to clean the archive I think if you Summarize the two stakes we had about 900 new packages Filling up the new queue doing the freeze and Well, we pretty much managed it to accept everything thanks also To the other people sitting there Especially Ansgar who joined the team Quite recently and processed a huge amount of packages if I am not mistaken So Yeah nearly invisible new queue so Well But nonetheless still packages end up in new and Need to be processed oh Forgot something sometimes the release team even tells us we are processing packages too fast and they don't manage all their transitions because We add new packages So that's pretty uncommon to us. We are not used to hear these kind of compliments. So Now after the shameless Self-praise What's up about the new queue? Well as we've mentioned already One point of the new queue is to keep the DB and archive legal As a side effect we also check if the packages meet the DB and free software guidelines some of us might be familiar with that document and If they comply with the DB and policy You some of you might wonder if there's a difference between complying with the DB and free software guidelines and being legal legally distributable But in fact that are two different points because Some piece of software can be free software But still be not distributable think for example something combining GPL license code and SSL license code You can distribute that resource but not as binary if I'm not mistaken So and While we are at it We also try to check a little bit is it if it's actually sensible to have that package in the DB and archive So in theory there shouldn't be any need for Processing the new queue because we all agree that that's a sensible things to comply to aren't we Okay so Let me show you some examples From some recent rejects over the last two months, I think A common error not all licenses are mentioned in your copyright file I Think there's hardly any Package in the archive which consists of only one license. I think that's the minority of our packages So if you list only one license in your copyright file You might better check it again and In the dev scripts package, there's a small helper called license check which can help you listing Different licenses and copyright holders of source code So I think that's the most common error That's the most common reason for a check from the new queue So next example Everything must meet the DB and free software guidelines I Didn't invent that example. That's an actual package. I found in the new queue. I think two weeks ago and It contains something copyrighted by something called the Microsoft Corporation I'm pretty sure That this doesn't meet the DB and free software guidelines so Coming to our next example Stuff missing its source code often we find some kind of documentation PDF files Which were not edited directly which were not created directly by writing a PDF file, but With some other source usually tech sometimes open office files or Libre office files and Sadly, we often we often don't find the source code of it So as The DB and free software guidelines say we need the source code of it That's usually a reject With the introduction of the Debt format sweep dot zero you can also ship the source code of some documentation in the debian dot tar dot Gs G that well Debian tar file and I Think we had already one case Where there was a piece of PDF documentation in the package the source was not in the OICTAR ball, but in the Debian tar ball Everything was built from source. So actually it was fine, but Some FTP team member didn't notice that the source code for the documentation was not shipped in the OICTAR ball and rejected the package So if you do this kind of stunts Shipping source code not in the OICTAR ball you should mention that in the copyright file and another common example is That you have some kind of some kind of source Source in quotation marks, which is actually not the preferred form of modification For example Java script libraries are often minimized to strip them of comments and Everything else to have a minimal version And if you then look at these files you have just one single line containing all the code Well in theory that is source code.  It's just not the preferred form of modification Even if this javascript library is not licensed under the licensed under the terms of the new general public license We still want to have The thing you can actually edit It has always been the interpretation of the Even if you suffer software guidelines and it will ever be Because we still want to modify it so with With increasing amount of web applications being packaged for Debian, that's also getting quite the quite common error and Then are some corner cases Where you find some kind of file and actually no one knows what kind of file it is In this case, it's some kind of data and well, it's some kind of Numbers I have no idea what's what's the origin of these numbers are what their meaning is and what's the How these numbers are usually edited? We have said Kind of often I would say not in that form, but also in other forms where we get some data files sometimes You can't even use them with an ASCII editor So What we usually do then is to ask the maintainer What the hell is that? So instead of rejecting it at once we just asked what is it? How would I modify it and If we are satisfied with the answer we accept the packages, of course if not, well, we can still reject them if You want to take a shortcut mention it in your copyright file You might not know it, but The fdp team actually reads your copyright file and if you have some high and some hint added there What is that file? How do I edit it? How do I edit this with the pack with the software available in main? You can spare us one brought and we can accept your package right away and We have an FAQ document with a frequently asked questions Why are some packages rejected? What you can mix with what license you can mix and which license you can't It's all documented On our fdp master side With that I hand over to Mark again who will tell us something about duck Well Alex was going to let me say about that he was meant to talk about removals and d-crufts, but I'll do that instead Most packages get Most packages get removed automatically through a mechanism called domination which removes older versions in a suite All the versions in a suite once the maintain uploads a new one Brittany transitions it to testing or so forth There are corner cases Where we can't do that automatically and therefore we have a tool called that cruft report This gives us a hint as to what we should look at removing The reason we don't automate that is because there are times when we want to leave around old binaries of certain in certain cases So Ben Hutchings uploaded the 3.0 to kernel yesterday. It came through new. It's gone into unstable That cruft report is currently telling me that I really should be removing all of the 2.6 2639 kernel binary images from unstable at this point because it's looking at it going Oh, well, you've got a 3.0 source package now So and we don't need the 2.6 one anymore. This is the reason we don't automate it I think people would get fairly unhappy if we at this point throughout the kernel binary images and broke all installs of unstable When cruft report also deals with a few slightly more difficult cases such as source packages getting Renamed and taking over binary packages The we often need to coordinate with the release team because this can quite often have an impact on transitions between Unstable and testing and it may be we need to hold around older library versions slightly longer than we would otherwise like to The final cases are binary packages built by multiple source packages usually to do with a move sometimes lack of coordination sometimes other reasons and finally newer versions in unstable. So for example cleaning out Cleaning out old experimental versions or testing and testing proposed update versions, although earlier today we have fixed it so the release team can to Can deal with the removals from testing proposed updates and we no longer have to The explicit RM bug reports tend to be things such as I no longer wish to maintain this. It's not interesting It's been merged into another package and that's just usually filed through report bug Binary package removals on certain architectures Although we try and support all packages on all architectures There are cases where for example the toolchain breaks and we wish to migrate from unstable to testing Brittany often won't consider this unless we remove the older binaries from unstable on the architectures where it's no longer building Again, this is a partial removal which sometimes needs to be done manually Overrides Thanks, Alex the override mechanism This is what actually writes the section priority headers into the packages and sources files rather than what's written in Debian control When something comes in through new it copies the information from Debian control into project B the attack database Which I'll come on to in a moment But the information that's written in the packages and sources file is actually then taken from the database To change it therefore we need bug reports against FTP debby nog This is partially to prevent things such as I don't know Libre office becoming priority required Which would break the bootstrap it would break other things we you would start dragging in a large amount of packages You really don't want to There probably are some questions about sections in terms of whether they should be being replaced with deb tags and all these Sort of things in the longer term But we keep adding new sections because I've been saying that about deb tags since I think at least deb come from Edinburgh And we're still using sections At this point There are a list of override disparities available on the FTP master website Although as the maintainer you'll get a really annoying email every time you upload if there's an override disparity Suggesting that you either correct the package or contact us to have the database updated Okay, I'll get into the bit that I was I was meant to be talking about DAC This is the Debian archive kit. It was renamed from Katie Which was the initial name of the Python version of de install written by James Troop and co many years ago Which replaced the pearl de install script, which is where the terminology de install comes from the terminology used by DAC is pretty much the same as That used in policy except in one case which does cause some confusion occasionally a Sweet is something like old stable stable testing Policy cues are a fairly new invention in terms of being generic within DAC Not just new but things like pu new or pu new things that the stable release managers or the Testing release managers manage themselves as staging areas so that packages don't land straight in there This is usually used for preparing a stable release The one way area where the for historical reasons the terminology differs is that we call main-contribute non-free Components and we forget that other people call them other things some documentation in Debian actually calls them sections And that is really really unhelpful because we we get very confused with the actual sections such as admin doc debug Python Well, that's all the thing Priority everyone knows about Unchecked you'll hear is referred to unchecked quite a lot This is simply a directory on the F on our Frank Debian org current FTP master server where dump everything that hasn't been checked for sanity This is where the QD eventually puts all your files DAC is very much something that's been evolved It wasn't it was designed originally, but you can actually see if you look it was designed around the files that apt expects to see So if you look at the release file format documentation, which is the app source code You will then see that the database was designed to contain those fields The Python code was then written to generate a release file from the database It wasn't designed to walk. How do we want to represent a suite? How do we want to represent sections? How do we want to tie all this together? It was very much here are the file formats Here's how we can quickly represent it in a database. Here's how we can script it to bring it all together Reverse engineering is sometimes necessary especially in the cases such as cruft report Torsten's the expert on cruft report domination and that sort of thing We tend to leave it to him because he spent enough time looking at the code to roughly understand where it will break Should he change it? The test coverage is getting better, but it's still poor There are probably about 20 test cases in DAC. They probably need to be about 2003,000 and this is one of the reasons we're quite cautious when packed patching it The only major DAC install is currently the Debian FTP master one That is the one that that matters in many respects We have a test machine called floater which we can give people access to this has a copy of project And you can play with your own branches and that sort of thing And we would very much welcome people who want to hack on DAC clean the code base And if anybody wants to write test harnesses for this Please see me immediately in fact stop the talk right now And I will be quite happy to come and talk to you about writing test harnesses for DAC There is going to be a buff on Thursday at 10 o'clock and I'm going to mention at least three times between now and the end of the talk We'd like to see anybody who has any Python and Postgres knowledge or none But who would be interested in coding as I said especially in tests when Zack said earlier on about test driven development. This really is an area where test Debian testing could Could do with improving Yes, we're happy of everybody turned up the important parts of DAC that maintainers will see all the Scripts that I've listed here Process upload is what takes your upload it runs linty and on it if it contains source It checks your key is in the GPG key ring. It checks that it's not out of date. It Runs a whole number of sanity checks these sanity checks are not derived from first principles These sanity checks are things that have broken in the past Again, as I said that has evolved when something broke the archive Somebody added three lines of code in the middle of process upload usually in a random place to check for that particular error This means that process upload is quite inefficient quite complex But seems to do its job 99% of the time Process policy is what the release team and the stable release managers use to shift packages around between the pu new queues and all that sort of thing They write accept and reject files that picks them up and performs the appropriate action Process new is what we use to do a similar thing for the new queue It has extra little features such as extracting the Debian copyright files showing us it in a pager or that sort of thing Highlighting in bright red where it depends Packages dependent on which doesn't exist all those sort of useful things so that we don't have to do the work manually The override command is pretty self-explanatory control suite. However is less so This is how Brittany sets testing it says the DAC I would like these packages at these versions for these architectures where architecture may be source in Testing please and it just feeds it a however many tens of thousands line Lined long list once or twice a day That looks at it and goes that seems to be about right and Sets the entire of testing testing isn't updated from our point of view testing is reset every single time this resulted in one particularly poor instance in where we received a zero line testing file and Testing suddenly had no RC bugs Dominate is What I described earlier on dominates used to actually be tied in with actually exporting all the file lists But we split it out. This deals with all the cases to do with Getting all versions to go away and more importantly these days the reason that we have multiple arch all packages in a given suite Is because Torsten massively improved the algorithm to hold architecture all packages around for longer Those of you've been around a few years will remember that if you used to be on any architecture other than I386 and Somebody uploaded a fairly large package You would suddenly find it became uninstallable on your architecture because the architecture all package for the old version Had suddenly gone away These days we do our very best to hold on to the architecture all packages that are needed by those older versions Keep them in the packages files. It makes the older versions still installable on Other architectures that weren't the initial upload target Generate package sources and generate releases these very generic package sources is the replacement for apt-ftp archive It is quite a lot quicker and Quite a lot more efficient because it used to be that we had all the information in the database But we thought it would be fun to scan all of the files again and jump dump it into a Berkeley DB cache using apt-ftp archive Before writing the packages file Eventually we got rounds to writing it out directly from the database and apart from a few minor breakages to do with field orders that Steve McIntyre can tell you about for the Debian CD software It now seems to pretty much work Generate releases generates the two types of release file you'll often find in there to do information to do with the origin information to do with What the suite is or that sort of thing and all the check sums The database is his for historical reasons called project B and there is a dd accessible live Postgres mirror kindly set up by dsa on Reese that is a live streaming replica So it it it will sometimes be out of sync with the actual pool that is on Reese By a little while I think we now sync it every unchecked run. I'm looking at yog to tell me whether I'm right or not So the files on disk should be just about in sync, but the database will always be the same as that on Frank So if you're wanting to do any work, that's the place to do it the install is now really a shell script that just runs the commands above in the right order most of the time and Moves everything through queue and checked deals with the release team in put sends all the emails and then our syncs everything out And this runs as we know for This runs four times a day at those times UTC unchecked is processed every 15 minutes except during the install So recently in duck we've improved the internal code to try and reduce duplication There's a lot more of that to do anybody who is a real Python coder who looks at duck might wonder what we were smoking when we wrote it. It is considerably better than it used to be Terson as I said did the improved all version handling and the removal and the removal of FTP archive was handled by various people within the team We also made the buildy queue generation considerably more flexible, which was useful because it allowed us to expose We didn't use to expose experimental As part of incoming incoming debbing org is now actually faked a buildy queue It doesn't really exist because we don't have that stage anymore It also means that incoming debbing org now actually satisfies all source code requirements because the original always be there Finally the buildy auto-signing integration was done with Phil Kern and the other buildy folks this This actually hadn't really come home to me until yesterday when I had to go back and process new four times in one day to get Linux 2.6 binary packages through because they were coming straight off the buildy straight into New because of the change in version number I hadn't realized quite how much of an impact it has to have not have the buildy people in the middle having to do the The tedious work of signing repeatedly it seems to have speeded up the site development cycle quite considerably The current work we're looking at XZ support for binary packages that is now written waiting It's no longer waiting for review because I did it in five minutes before this talk I just didn't want to merge it because I didn't want the first question in the talk to be why is the archives no longer working? So we're going to immediately after the talk We're going to stop the archive temporarily merge the patch and then run unchecked manually and hope that it still works We'd like to do something to do with multiple archive support This would be helpful for data debbie, you know But also it would help us consider merging some of the multiple DAC instances we have around the project security Backports all into one place. It would actually minimize a large number of problems as you have filed duplication We'd also like better queue tracking some of these are sort of internal team matters but A lot of the things where people say I uploaded this and this didn't quite work Or because we don't track the queues quite as well as we should do and it is possible that average tar gz For instance disappear while something's waiting in a queue at which point DAC will get very upset and refuse to move it to the pool We've been asked by and I and Zach finally sent an email a couple of months back saying yes do it to throw away binaries Um So the current plan is simply to throw away binaries that come In a changes file where there is also source present So therefore people would be if you upload a set of binaries on their own they will still go through fine So if you want to do a portrait upload or one of the corner case uploads that will work But by default we will if there's if you're doing it source plus Binary we'll keep the all binaries because that requires some build d support to work out how we build the all packages But anything which isn't any binary package We will just throw throw away to one side after doing the lintian checks and the buildies will build them from clean each time We've also had a bit of a chat about because of the build the auto signing It's now quite easy to recognize which binary packages were built by build these So it might be quite nice to have reports on the website about which package binary packages in the archive were built by non-build d Uploaders On-demand experimental type suites And the ppa infrastructure. Yes One suggestion has been and this came out before the ppa discussions actually that experimental is useful sometimes And in fact, we're about to make it more useful because we've had a request from the release team that people can migrate People be able to migrate packages from experimental into unstable without reuploading Um, I've implemented the code for that and actually again just before this talk I tested on the test archive and it actually worked second time And we're going to try rolling that out soon. If anyone's got suggestions about how that should be interfaced with I'd be glad to hear them. We're currently thinking a mail gateway or something send a gbg sign mail saying I'd like this to shift across The mechanism doesn't really matter, but Yeah, a decode type commands file be it via email something that's signed I'd like to move the following source packages at these versions from experiment and all their binaries from experimental into one stable Without having to go through the build d network again And this could be quite useful that you can imagine for staging transitions But this got us on the thinking that actually having a single suite where all that happens can be a bit difficult if there's multiple people using it So it might be an idea that you could create an experimental dash glib transition suite Do all of your work in there get the build these to build everything experimental then shift the whole lot into unstable in one go And that might help with transition complex transitions Immensely now that requires a little bit of work But if anybody's interested in working on that which seems to me to be related in some generic ways the ppa infrastructure Again, we'd be glad like to talk about that the boff I'd really like to see duck in debian again Mainly because I use duck at work to push out all of our local packages And at the moment i'm using a really old version and upgrading it is going to be very annoying So I would quite like duck to actually be in the archive and have to get installable and usable It used to be there, but it wasn't really usable Bug fixing there's always bugs Debug debbs and the debian smart upload server. I'm actually going to skip over because I'm going on a bit Come to the boff on thursday, we'd like to as I say we really like to see people there We'd like to have more contributors be it people who want to work on the ftp team or people who just want to work on Scripts, maybe not even in DAC things related to the archive to try and make things run more smoothly And I'll finish off by asking if there are any questions Good. I've sent everyone asleep When's the boff thursday at 10 o'clock neil. Thank you for asking that No, good excellent. Oh zaks gonna ask a question. Oh dear Actually, you did a very good job at destroying any single question I had with your last slide in the future work, but I'm still curious if you so Sometime we eat the problem that the duck machine is sort of a bottleneck So we have had that problem in the past. So I wonder if You have risen from an architectural point of view whether duck must be a single You know a single big lock on the archive or whether it can be distributed That's so in some way the archive is a big lock in some sense But I wonder whether it can be distributed in some way you say that the the duck lock It's if we're talking about locking in terms of you know Dealing with multiple things at once and people sitting around that actually doesn't occur very much anymore The install itself now is usually in the region of 20 minutes or so 25 minutes But since we've changed how we process things So it's not it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be where the install will be three hours long And nothing could happen in that time. We couldn't even process new during that time We've actually made the locks a lot more granular And we only take the locks for the short period we need to ensure database consistency One suggestion that has been raised in the past is actually some form of duck demon And the reason for that would be that it would know what it was currently trying to do And it would only take locks for those few seconds that it needed to make a consistent change to the archive If you know of cases where duck is being a bottleneck rather than Newers being a bottleneck or this is being a bottleneck. Let me know and we can certainly look at it And Colin's going to ask me a question. I think So in the past we've gone from Duck running or de-install sorry running every day down to twice a day four times a day do you have plans to Increase the frequency further this gets out. This gets asked this gets asked occasionally I technically we can do there are a couple of things that you've got to remember first of all the mirror Sledge is shaking his head and he's one of the people who always shakes his head whenever we say maybe we could go six times a day Would somebody give steve a microphone because I'd really like him to explain to me why he always shakes his head when this has raised I agree with him the thing is the mirror bandwidth is quite large because don't forget you regenerate the discs tree for testing unstable experimental Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Sorry Colin just for those of anybody who couldn't hear and we said they do that in a buntoon He was just sort of just asking About that steve. Sure. Yeah, the problem of course is exactly mirror bandwidth I mean i'm responsible for a couple of mirrors and it's painful. The other problem is then also The cd builds we don't want to be generating too many We're already halving so we do a set of dailies twice a day instead of every four times a day We could cope with more and again just artificially limit The next question is what do we gain from running any faster? That was what I was going to ask I mean, do people think that the the number of mirror pulses at the moment the six hours between them really affects them? Colin's got another comment. Yes. Thank you So, I mean, they're they're obviously a very different projects But we we did notice very clearly that that having a mirror pulse every hour as we do in a buntoon means that the development cycle tends to sink a little bit more to that and It makes it it means that, you know, you can you can try something out Upload it have it built it will almost certainly be Done and ready to upgrade from only about a quarter of the way into your work day And that kind of thing makes it possible to do a lot of things more quickly I mean one of the things we have to remember is that I could be wrong You're correct Now I think a buntoon has a much more control of their mirror network than we do we rely on volunteer mirrors considerably Don't we I don't I I don't know that that's true for that's true for our central mirrors, but Not perhaps for I'd be interested. I'd certainly be interested to see some we should we should yeah I think I'd be interested in some numbers and that ganif would know better than I would On how much of the sink is actually the dists tree and how much is the devs? I suspect We're at the point where with six hours they're becoming The influence of the dists tree is becoming quite high compared to that of the change in actual dev and source files And that seems to me to be about the point at which you start saying that's probably enough of a trade-off Yeah, we have something like multiple hundred megabytes in the distry for every mirror one right And we still could tell you exact numbers, but he's already bitching at us From from the snapshot point of view. That's true. The other thing is we have to remember that snapshot We wouldn't want to sort of upset them too badly because they would have to snapshot Or they wouldn't have to but they snapshot the distry every time we do it And obviously that imposes extra resources on them Certainly if we thought if we thought it was going to have a large effect on development It might be worth an experiment of even just trying at six times a day instead of four and seeing if it makes much difference And we do have a good number of mirrors that are taking actually a long time And are about finished when we are starting the next one already They will really love us if we go more There is one thing that has literally just sprung into my head and there's a very half formed idea And the fruit is going to come from here at this point to be thrown at me We have traditionally made incoming Not have a packages file Yeah, what we could do Would be to consider syncing that to one or two mirrors And generating a packages file even just using apt fdp archive there so you could have an additional This is what's coming in at this point that developers could use There are other work rounds rather than going through the main mirror network That could be used for people if they wanted to see that in the to help with development Let's discuss that outside That sounds ominous Does anyone else have any questions? Ah sledge Okay Fairly obvious question. I mean I am one I guess one of the Consumers of your output and I've we've been reporting bugs and whatever for the last few years Are there any more? um I guess interface changing changes coming That you can warn me about Define interface Well things like the format of a sort of the sources file or packages file that kind of thing Not that I'm aware of the big change was when we cut over to no longer using apt fdp archive Sure I really I realize this isn't much comfort, but I mean be giving this an rfca to two file We didn't we hope that all the parsers wouldn't care what the ordering was that was probably a little bit stupid in retrospect We tried to keep it as close as we could to the original, but we we made mistakes and I'll hold my hands up to that Um, so hopefully that's hopefully that's been changed The in terms of interfaces one thing we don't guarantee if I can just say is at the moment the project be schema We don't want to guarantee that we will keep that the same.  I think at that once we clean it up We should look at possibly providing some stability Sorry gannaf. Oh, sorry. I'll join me to repeat that content Or I We are also thinking about changes to the contents file But probably they are done by adding new files and slowly removing the old ones Getting them in some more usable format and also adding source contents and stuff But I think that is a case where we would keep generating the old files But produce new files with different names and then gradually hopefully after over a couple of release cycles cycle out the old file file types Hello I wonder if you have considered about carrying part to a partial architectures And we see like architectures going out and in and are you andy both dressed up because he just grabbed me about that immediately before the talk Partial architectures. Yes, Andy's asked to talk to me about that I see the release team staring at me about that because britney would have to cope with it There are and I'm hoping cons about to tell me there's no need for it Oh, all right. Okay partial architectures are things like in the past examples have been ppc 64 spark 64 I've never been entirely convinced it was worth not just building those as full architectures But andy did come up with an example that might be worthwhile beforehand, but I've forgotten what it was So the idea being you could build a limited set of Packages because you don't need the whole of the archive Optimized that particular way I've been told five minutes. So I'll probably just take cons and then finish Can I just say one other thing about that? I think that is going to become an issue Especially with now multi-arch becoming production ready Things like i3 at six or i6 at six or i3 at six mmx or whatever Where we might want certain libraries to be available in optimized forms that might be the way we end up doing that It's also used or can be used for getting With of the current spark port and getting spark 64 for example Transition without having a completely new architecture added and removed the old one. Yeah But certainly yes partial architectures. We've considered Dac actually cares very little about the completeness of the of the Component in fact when I say very little I mean not at all Brittany compares about the kid. Brittany cares very much about the set closure over main, but we don't Colin we finish with that. So you may not have a great deal of sympathy for this the Sledge asking about Interface changes reminded me and in conjunction with your your comment about support for debt at rxz So I'm One of the per sods running a downstream distribution that Occasionally needs to keep up with new facilities the debian introduces We're about two weeks behind you. I think on debt at rxz Um Is there is there anywhere? Is something that resembles a change log of New interface features that dac supports relative to No, that's not particularly helpful because of the noisiness I this has bothered me for some time and I'm wondering if we should Coordinate slightly better with the derivatives on that and also as a project as a whole because Data at rxz has been around for a while now But there are bits missing in the stable tool chain that Are having to be hacked had to be hacked around or introduced in the point release So that we could use it so that the features could be used I wonder if this is actually not just for the derivatives, but for debian as a whole something We should look at coordinating slightly better right debian as a whole and I honestly don't know what derivatives other than a boon to do I know that many of them use dak in some way I don't know whether they're keeping up with your get tree or whether they're doing all their own stuff I'm sure we can't be the only people with this Yeah, I think it might it's another example of where cross distribution, but also in internally within debian It would be an example that was brought to my attention the other day is that the bootstrap I believe will only cope with Data tar gz So we have to be careful not to end up with data tar bz to our data tar xz in Packages that bootstrap needs to deal with or or we need to change that assumption Absolutely, but we need to put again. That's an example possibly that we've missed. We haven't coordinated properly Gannett wants to say something and I think I've got to finish. No, he's finished. Oh sledge is back again Yeah, I'll finish a couple of last things In terms of mirroring, and there's a really silly question. I could check anyway Are you generating packages dot gz and whatever as are sinkable? Yes. Okay. Lovely and finally Okay, cool and Are you ready for us to start doing armhf that like very soon within the next month? I sent I sent an email about armhf when we met Yeah, six months and I'll say three three four months ago. Yes As soon as you're ready to bootstrap it Give me a shout We'll add the architecture in unstable dumping initials and go through the usual architecture bootstrapping procedure Which is even written down somewhere. Just don't ask me where it's written down Awesome. Thanks That's it I think. Thank you


Welcome back to the AI for good global summit in Geneva on day four. Now if there's a reason why we're here It's partly down to the man who's in front of me right now. His name is Steven Ibaraki. Hello. Hi If I say we're partly here because of you it's because you co-founded this whole summit to begin with your futurist And you're also a venture capitalist So you look at what's been achieved this week How much would you say the progression has been in the three years? Well, when you look at 2017 we had Approximately 30 plus million reach. We had 70 plus speakers 20 UN agencies at the second year We had a hundred and fifty speakers 1.3 billion media reach a hundred and fifty speakers and 35 projects as outcomes this year We had 30 over 3,000 registrations. We have 300 speakers We have all 37 UN agencies. It's incredible and I know the reach will be over two billion When you say the reach what do you mean by that just through the media pickup and the audiences that are Following the event through through all of the different UN channels and all of these stories that have been produced and so on I mean, it's the first year that we for example, we've had Microsoft as a keynote. We had the chairman of Seamans as a keynote as well, you know, like John Philippe from Microsoft and so on Incredible support. It's the only industry disciplinary AI summit that combines government industry Academy in media and UN agencies coming together to look at positive solutions for positive impact of AI Why would you say it's going through a rapid rise in three years is because people need to know more about AI They're concerned about it. You tell me People want to see the the actual Applications and how it can affect their lives in a meaningful way see how the augmentation can be used in both developed and developing countries And because the UN is a facilitation platform You provide a very neutral safe environment in terms of active discussions of what are the challenges But what also the opportunities and the meaningful solutions for example now There's over 200 use cases and how AI could be applied to address the 17 UN sustainable development goals There's three words that for me, I've heard a lot of this week that I didn't hear last year I would say it's gender inclusion and scaling up. Do I want to talk me through this? well AI is a is a Participation mechanisms so that it can help to provide equity and fairness and equality and gender or Gender neutrality in essence so that everybody can participate you have this situation of scaling up where AI is penetrative industry for example in the last quarter 2017 it was available to every aspect of our lives and increasingly it's even available in chips and so on so Both developed and developing countries have this capability of being augmented and supported through AI and any the other elements you're mentioning Another thing they talk about still is sharing the data lakes That's got to be the most difficult thing right because you've got to get businesses to agree to collaborate on data, which is power increasingly there are Programs for partnerships and so on and data commons to share data to make it available freely There's quite a bit of open source data now being available and not international consortiums to provide daily Data for free use and so on you can also create synthetic and synthetic data Where you get existing data and you can amplify and creating artificial versions of it So looking ahead Where do you see things say in the next three years from now? You're going to see it again an incredible proliferation of AI and ways that you don't even see right now A lot of people don't realize that AI is embedded into email It's a bit and to filter out you know spam emails and on credit card You know you get these messages saying somebody may be breaking into your kind of see that's AI a form of AI That's doing that when you want to purchase products on the internet. That's AI that says hey I should be looking at some other products or other movies every so do you know movies and or even in your car Where it's doing some of the functions automatically even though you don't have an autonomous vehicles That's all AI. It's embedded everywhere. And in fact, let's look at it this way when the first announcements came out about AI For example where they can recognize images and there was these computing clusters by Google and so on and you could You know have 20 30 million dollars of computers and millions of data sets data Points to image and recognize the end of popularity was cats My phone here has a bionic chip an 812 bionic chip. You're looking at $30 million. It's $72 and this system can do five Trillion operations per second That's the kind of the capability and you're gonna see that spread everywhere Increasingly so helping us live better lives Well check back in three years time and see you're the future oligists That was Stephen Iberaki who was basically the founder of this AI for good global summit talking to us Here in Geneva. Thank you. It's a real pleasure


A couple years ago, I was struggling with self-confidence issues. I remember just even pushing away the plate sometimes because I felt like I should not eat over the fact that I didn't feel comfortable with myself and the way that I looked. I always struggled with these self-confidence issues. Even going back and looking at it, I was 13, I'm 15 now, but being so young and being so unhappy really took a toll on my life. I was raised Catholic and I had a friend who came to this church and I remember her telling me, you go to church but you don't know God and he doesn't know you. And that was the point of reveal for me. At first I was like, you're rude, like that's rude. But I realized that she was doing it because she also had self-confidence issues and her self-confidence rocketed after she started coming to church. And so she introduced me to this church and I had doubts because I didn't really feel like this was home for me. And I came to a service, I want to say service and that service was great and I felt the Holy Spirit moving but I didn't really know what the Holy Spirit was but I felt it there and nothing happened that service. I just went home, did my own thing but I was still struggling with a pain in my ovary. I had an ovarian cyst on my ovary and it was really bad and I remember just crying screaming. I was on the phone with a friend and I was crying just my eyes out because the pain was so bad and I remember my mom rushing me to the hospital and them telling me that I had an ovarian cyst on one of my ovaries and I remember them hooking me up to IVs and stuff and everything was happening so quick and so fast and I remember just feeling so overwhelmed and the pain was just so bad to the point where I could not sleep and I remember having to take two pills, I had to take 800 milligrams of ibuprofen which are huge, these like huge nickel-sized pills and I remember having to take those and the melatonin pill at night to sleep through and even though I took melatonin I wouldn't sleep through the night I remember waking up around three in the morning just from pain. After that I came to a service on Wednesday and it was a healing service and I remember they called up for anybody that had pain anybody who's ever had pain in their ovaries to come up and ask for healing and I remember my heart was beating so fast and I asked a friend should I go up there, should I do this and she encouraged me and I went up there and I got prayed for and at first I didn't feel anything but then I went home and I slept the whole night through and I remember my mom asking me like she was so surprised like you slept you didn't wake up like I didn't hear you last night I was like because I didn't wake up I slept the whole night and I remember just feeling so blessed and so worthy and so anointed to the point where I felt so happy with my life and I realized that I was getting these signs and different things I remember coming to a prophetic service in November and Prophet Passion Javel's wife she gave me where she spoke to me through God she told me that this healing is real, that it happened and it's not going to come back the pain is not going to come back and it's going to stay away and I remember just being so blessed and so thankful over the fact that I was healed and this actually happened and I didn't have doubts anymore like I knew that this was my spot this was my place so I gave my life to Christ a month after that and I don't regret it one bit it's the best decision I've ever made in my life and now I don't struggle with myself confidence issues I'm confident in myself I'm confident enough to even talk to other people that I wouldn't have the confidence to talk to I'm confident enough to wear things I'd not have the confidence to do and it's amazing what Christ can do I'm Elena and this is my testimony


Senator Klobuchar made a stop in Park Rapids today to discuss the growing age gap in the agriculture community and the future of the industry. How Logan Gaye has more. To address the needs of rural Minnesota, Senator Klobuchar stopped in Park Rapids to discuss the school to agriculture program. I think a lot of times when people think about the farm bill, they only think about farms. But actually, rural development is a big piece of it. So we came to hear what's going on in Park Rapids and then to take those ideas and see how we can help. Agriculture is an important part of the Park Rapids community. People think egg, they just think farmers. There's a every job in these small, there's tons of jobs that have a lot to do with egg. The goal is to get students started thinking early about the opportunities the agriculture industry can offer them. The average age of the farmer is over 60 now. And so we need a new crop of students going into agriculture and manufacturing. And sometimes kids graduate and they don't quite know what they want to do. Senator Klobuchar also has plans to continue to work on the new market tax credit. Minnesota is the fourth state in the country for using that tax credit in smart ways to develop and expand businesses. It's not just about community centers. It's also a lot of businesses, small businesses. Residents of Park Rapids like Paul Dove are excited about the possibilities. I think it's great that that things are happening in the community that need financing that they can find that financing from willing sources. And so I think that is the future of what's going to be happening here in Park Rapids. And I think there's a great future. In Park Rapids, Logan Gay, Lakeland News. Senator Klobuchar also made a stop in Wadena today to talk about her work with Alzheimer's disease. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.