Call the meeting order. Meeting the Alumni Water Board Monday, September 19th. I want to hear the roll call. Yes. Roger Lang. Here. Allison Gould. Here. Tom Dester. Here. Staff, Ken Houston's here. Wes Lowry. Yes. Kevin Bowden. Here. Hope Larbett. Here. David Bell. Here. And council member, Marshall Martin. Here. OK, mayor, Trevor, we have the floor. All right, thank you. Just a quick question about Jason, is he here? He's at the middle of a project, so I'm going to cover for him today. It's a skeleton crew. OK, let's talk about approving previous months' minutes. Any comments or questions about the minutes from last month? Some motion to approve. I approve. Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. All right. Who's doing the water status before? That'll be me and Roger. OK, very good. The flow on the St. Brain lines this morning was 34 CFS. The historic average, 120-foot-favorite historic average is 54 CFS. The call on the St. Brain Creek is the Nailot Ditch with a priority date of June 1st, 1865. The call on the main stand in the south by river was Harmony Ditch with a priority date of May 3rd, 1897. Right now, with the price reservoir, at Montenegro, it was full in spelling at an elevation of 6,400.2, and passing full North St. Brain over the spillway, which is approximately 26 CFS. Union Reservoir was in an elevation of 25.2 feet, of 10,756 acre feet, which is down approximately 2,000 acre feet from full, and releasing 16 CFS. On September 1st, 2022, St. Brain Creek was the historic St. Brain Creek basin storage place. It was at 71 percent. So we're pretty dry out there, just from the flow on the St. Brain. And just a question. A year ago, we can remember, it was well-priced, full, and it's building, also. It was a typical period. Yeah. Occasionally, we released some water in September, but we tried to cut short releases. Still, you know, October 20, was it ever first now? Great. All right. Any questions for Kevin? Thank you. Thanks, Kevin. I don't see anybody from the public here, so we'll just move beyond that one. Any agenda or provisions or submissions? We have them. OK. Item 7, development activity. Done, now, done. So all of this, all of this, I am made. I guess that's what I said. So this is the board's quarterly review for Cache and Lue. I should remind everyone that it was back on March 8 for the City Council approved resolution 2022-35. Set of the fee for Cache and Lue at the current $48,500 per acre feet. And that was based on the Windy Gap Birmingham Project in its entirety, which was equivalent to $30,000 per acre foot for the original Windy Gap version of the company project and $18,500 for the city's current investment in the Windy Gap project. And we were hoping, well, I shouldn't say we were hoping, we were anticipating there being some information on Windy Gap sales for PRPA. But we had contacts with them. It looks like that's not going to happen or be available till spring next year. So we don't have any new data in terms of changing costs. The project itself is using some of the contingency money, as they expected it. And but we believe there's sufficient contingency money in there to continue the project. So with all of that being said, we're recommending no change to the current deeper Cache and Lue. And looking forward, you don't see much changing those numbers? We do not. We'll continue to update the board. The next, I would say, substantial piece of information would come with the sale of CBT. Or if we get to where they request the participants to contribute additional dollars because of low funds and the contingency fund. But right now, that's not being anticipated. So I think based upon council's direction, we're right where we should be. Tom Rills and any comments? Yeah. How have we had applications? I think the last time we spoke about this, most people were trying to get in before the change over. Have we had folks coming after? Bringing Cache and Lue? Yeah. Yeah, good question. There was a lot of people that came in right before, actually have wanted the process right now of bringing a check-in. That check was for around $170,000, which seems like a lot. But it actually only represents, like, you know, three or four acre feet. But we have seen Cache and Lue coming into the city's coppers from after this change. So projects are still leaving for as they happen. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I've always been proponent of more information. It doesn't seem like there's a whole lot more to base an opinion on. So I don't see any rationale really for a change relative to previous discussions that we've had on the context. Anything else? That's all I have. All right. So item nine, you're going to take that, Ken. Yeah, first item to report on is some of our engineering projects that are ongoing right now. Probably the two most significant projects are the constructing a pump station from the South St. Ring Pipeline to be able to pump into the North St. Ring Pipeline to pick up some of the winter water on our South diversion. It's a little more difficult to get. Otherwise, that project, the pump is in. And that's why Jason's not here today. They're actually doing the tie-in from the pump station to the North Pipeline. So we're cutting the pipeline, putting it together. That'll take a couple of days to do a two-lengthy project. That's going on right now. So that's good. Should make the project halfway operational by sometime in October. So that's two years. Actually, one of the last of our purchases of that pump station is one of the last of our plants. We're that close to giving that down. The second project that's going on right now is some of the bearish to the outlet of the up and down. We've got a failure of a flange gasket and addition on our low flow jet flow gate, as well as the actual regulating gate where it seats down. This was leaking, and so just the opportunity before since the spillage is still spilling, all the water coming down can go over the spillway. So it doesn't impact the stream at all. This time of year, it's kind of critical to do that work. This time of year, you can't do it in summer, because you didn't have too much flow over the spillway. You can't do it after November, because we lose our sink rate supply canals. It's always a real tight window in September. I'll try to start a project like that. So let's just start in Jesus of the Kingdom. Hopefully, both of those two projects in the old seat out of the old regulating gate is already out. So that part of the project will go on now. I'll just get a new seat put in and stop it. I'm sure that should be coming along pretty good. And then the last, and I'm sure this will come up, is going to be a quick update on the media filming project. I'm sure it'll turn that on in a photo. I'm sure we can ask that quick question. Robert, do you need a term that vote on the caching list? Well, my opinion is there's nothing to exchange in every way. I didn't see that we need to be one. Yeah, we normally only vote if it's a recommendation to counsel. Good question. I thought about where I came on. Big up today. There we go. All right, picture again. You look so happy again. I'm going to put a tease on that. So that's an actual picture from today between the old project. So that's hot off the press. You can actually see, so there's the quarry that's been there a while, that you can see the asphalt plant is up there. Now, that area when the project's done, becomes the parking area for the Larimer County Recreational Area, which will be good, that you can see that. The bridge over the Pennstock is much better. We see it now. And then they're still working on the plinth. Got a little bit more to do here in a little tiny bit. But a good portion of the plant is down and constructed. A little bit of the rock fill is starting. And then around this side, you can see the footprint of the dam very well. And around this side, you can see some of the downstream filter, where any CPG would be picked up in the filter and taken down in a controlled fashion. That's it. Probably done a whole lot different than last month, or even when we were up there turning it. It's coming along well. And I think, although we reported last summer, we did have the groundbreaking on the connectivity channel. That went well. The nice thing about having groundbreaking, it was kind of a quick permit, and that allowed some of the funding to come in, which allowed the contract to be left, which allowed the groundbreaking, which allowed some of the last of the funding to come through. It was kind of everything was sitting there. Hey, we thought everything was ready to go, but it's now coming to the channel with a little bit of luck in the Grand Lake County area. We'll have a little bit of time this fall to get some construction done. We'll smoke it pretty quick. But we're getting started, so that's good. That's all I can think of. Maybe this fluctuates a lot, but as far as being on schedule, is there a sense is where we hoped it'd be? It is. It's probably one of the ways you look at that is expected expenditure funds and how much you've expended. We're in about that 90%, 95% range. As close as you can predict a construction project at this scale. So right now it's tracking on schedule. Financially is cost, sir. And financially, as you would expect, there are some change orders for mostly varying conditions in the foundation and a few other things. But for the most part, yes, we're still well within the budget. No big change or a change. Any other questions for Ken? OK, thanks, Ken. So that's what Jason would report on, and then you all take it. That's all we have on the budget. So we'll let you go. Hi, everybody. So I just wanted to give a quick update on a conference slash workshop that we attended last week. It's called Growing More Smart. And it's a yearly workshop held on by the Sonora Institute and the Babitz Center for Inuse Planning. And basically, it's to put people who normally don't work together in the same room so that we can connect the dots between development and more resources. So Ken and I were able to go. And then we had three planners, a long-term planner, an environmental planner, and a development review among some other wonderful GIS people. And we had a really wide array of people on our team to go up to Estes Park. And it's basically like a deep dive into where we want to see our city go in the face of our water resources and development, hand in hand. So we developed an action plan. And that's OK. And part of one of the perks of going to this workshop is that it opens up opportunities for fun things. So we kind of created this mission statement for our Growing Water Smart team, which is not just the team that went, but a variety of other people who work on water-related projects in the city. So you get parks and open spaces, and storm water, and flood plain, and all kinds of water is involved in everything. So we've got people from all across the board on this overlarge team. And you guys may remember that Francie went in 2020. And so this is our second friendly camp in 2020. So this is our second time attending. This time was different because we got to be in person. So we feel it was much more valuable to create those network opportunities and personalized relationships with people. So we feel very much more motivated. And we created an action plan and a mission statement that I'll read for you. Despite the adversity we faced, Longmont is an adaptable community that continues to be a responsible steward of our resources. But Colorado is challenged by water issues. And Longmont is not as resilient as we could be. Our path forward can better reflect our values. Therefore, we can commit to fostering an equitable, safe, and resilient community that contributes to Colorado's water future. So basically, we came up with some overarching long term goals. The long term, the long horizon goal is we would like to update our coded design standards to reflect water efficiency better so that we are developing with water efficiency in mind instead of having to focus on retrofitting developments that are new. We also want to coordinate upcoming plant updates with water efficiency in mind. So as you all know, we have our water efficiency master plant update coming up. That's going to play a lot of the groundwork in language for other plants to borrow from. So Parks and Open Space is doing an update, as well as sustainability. And then the city's comprehensive plan is also hopefully already updated soon as well. So we're really making sure to have a coordinated effort between all of those plant updates so that we're all on the same page in developing and planning for the same goals. And we're going to do all of this with projects that are data-driven. So we can have data-driven proof decisions. Lots of community engagement and outreach, lots more efficiency on public property. So in our last month's meeting, we mentioned this city becoming kind of a role model for water efficiency. And that was a big part of what we wanted to do. We wanted to focus on what we can control here, kind of get some quick, fast, easy wins, develop some case studies, get really good data on why we should be water efficient, so that we can prove to council eventually someday why we should update our code and prove what works and how it saves water by being efficient. Counties, oh, there's updates, so. Good. Just get them ready. We're ready. We are not ready. We're ready to be ready. And we broke it out into subcommittees, which is probably the main difference between how we're moving forward with the project management of groundwater smart versus now versus 2020. And so it's not just me as it was just frenzy, kind of coordinating, wrangling the cats. We kind of are doing a subcommittee approach to disseminate and delegate leadership so we can pull the category more. So yeah, we're excited. Where was the meeting going to take place? It was in Estes Park. And it was three days of pretty intense breakout workshops facilitated brainstorming. But it was really great. A lot of, all of the planning is really excited. And we're excited to get these projects moving. Are communities attended? Four other communities attended. So Cheyenne was there, which was the first from Lion Lake to ever participate. And then us and Broomfield, Windsor, and Lions. So five, I guess. Right. And it was great to have Lions there, too, since we're right next door. And we provide the attribute water. So it was good to collaborate with them. Very good. Anything else, though? Right. That's a lot of them. Yes. A question about what kind of role in terms of vision, let's say, as far as term, in terms of preferred placement and also codes, as far as what we have in our future development. I hope that's something that's going to be part of what is going to be presented to City Council. Yeah. Well, so I have a question, a reinforcing question, maybe, about that. I, first of all, just have to brag a little bit. I just had my turf inverted and have zero state plants and a drip system in my yard now. And I'm doing all of this scubble or mulching it and all that stuff. It doesn't require any skills. And I'm not very strong at it. But the situation we've got is that a lot of people can adopt policies for even codes that manage households, right? You have to do with single-family home turf removals. But existing HOAs, and I'm not sure about future HOAs, that maintain their own green air spaces. I don't think we have any ability to tell them they have to pull out their turf and re-landscape that because homeowners associations or quasi-governmental agencies that are sort of not underneath the municipality in certain ways. And so I wonder whether that was discussed recently, within the last few years recently, the state legislature awarded homeowners in HOAs the right to zero-scape their own property regardless of what their HOA covenants are. But that doesn't speak to the land that is maintained by the HOA covenants. So I just wondered whether that was put on the table. It's been discussed on the legislative side that we would like to request that our representatives try to broaden that exception at the state level so that the HOAs don't have to, you know, we can restrict the amount of turf that they use. So question for you. Yeah, that specifically did not come up. I wasn't aware of that. So that's good. I mean, that's something that we're hoping to do a lot of is really deep dive into our current code and design standards and figure out, like, because right now our code is very vague and it says things like preferred low water plants. And that doesn't really mean anything. So we're hoping that as we move forward with these projects that we really do some deep dive into our current code, current laws, what we can and can't do. And that has a lot to do with HOAs too. I can speak to a lot of community members are really interested in doing a lot of retrofits in their HOA common areas. And I feel like if it's resident driven, then the HOA will most are more likely to adopt that. But that's good to keep in mind. I think you appreciate that. Yeah, and one thing that our legislator could maybe even help a little bit is when I read the statute on you can't compel a property or an HOA, they don't use the term HOA, community something. But what is HOAs? It's clear that you can't compel a private property or some that don't feel that applies to an HOA itself. That's what I was trying to say. And I read it, I don't know the attorneys. I kind of think that you also can't compel a HOA. But it's not clear. So I think, yeah, that would be great. That would be great.  Something in, I mean, I'd be happy to test that. So maybe give you the opinion on how far that extends. It's an area we probably need to look at a little harder. So Marcia, where is this heading for single-family residences? Where is it heading? Well, what lies down to them is their discussion about having codes for them, is how much term they can have, or is that even a discussion? Right now, no. I mean, right now what's happening, as David could probably explain it better than I have, is that we're focusing on incentives now. You want to maybe explain, because I don't know, for example, how much more we put in the budget for incentives. So that probably is a kind of hope piece of there. We in the parks side of the ones are doing stuff internally in the parks on some of the city properties that we have right now. So we are actually taking steps to do conversions for a couple of reasons. One, to get out in front and see what really works to reduce the water demand for the city. But also then to be an example for our residents and say, here's something you can actually look at. It can be a demonstration of such a product. Be that conversion of grass types to different grass types. Or, as you did, take it from turf to some sort of zero glasscaping. So I don't know a lot of the pregnant dollars in it. We've done anything yet to help with the residential side. Yes, we have. Yeah. So we work with Resource Central. And last summer was our live trial period to see how successful it was. It was wildly successful. We had 40-something applicants. And you could only find like 12 projects. So we doubled our budget for next year. And then we also have applied for a grant through St. Graham-Lapton Water Conservancy District to give us more money so that we can make it bigger. But the plan is to increase those incentives year over year. And then state funding will come into play as well. So the CWCB, the house, though, that just passed recently for the turf removal incentives. We'll get, hopefully, we'll apply to get some money through them as well. So, David, from a city standpoint, some of our properties on your talking parks and what, are you zeroing in on a particular initial one where you actually removed? Sure. I'm just kind of curious. So we've done mostly work done, removals right now has really been around municipal buildings. So this building right here, actually, we have taken out bluegrass. And I think, I'll determine what species we put in out here. But I'm curious to see what we've put out here. So much more less water needs for those species. Then over at the Sunset Building, we've taken the turf out in front of that. And I think we put a dog turf in one area. And on the other side, a dog turf. And on the other side, we put a rock-type landscaping with zero plants. So we're really doing our properties that we've done the taking out of turf. And we've done it on city properties that are really municipal buildings and accesses. As far as our parks, it's been a design piece that for probably several years now that we've looked at our parks and said, do we really need all that turf? And we've been designing in more native, naturalized areas that could be pollinator habitat. It could be more xeric. They're really trying to super-buy that green space with a cooling for people to get out and just use that. But looking at those perperies, especially, is spaces that really could be designed as more naturalized areas that don't require as much water. And the next ones coming up would be Mino-Garro and Clover Basin, both ones that have a much more significant amount of naturalized area than you would have seen 20 years ago. And I can maybe update you, too, is that we just started this project working with Northern Water Park. Yeah, with the parks department. So we're doing an advanced sprinkler audit on Roosevelt Park and garden acres. And then we also are having them help us determine areas of those parks to transition. So at Roosevelt, there's a hill with some trees on it that's never used. And so we're like, okay, let's put native grass there. And then there are some other potentials to do different varieties of demonstration projects at Roosevelt Park. And then there's a lot of space at garden acres where we can potentially just reduce the mowing and reduce the watering and kind of let the native species that are already in that area kind of take over where the ditch is. So there are some things that we're looking on to do current parks, too. Now, you said advanced sprinkling, advanced irrigation audit. And so Northern Water Sponsors irrigation audits for big properties like golf courses and parks. And so we're getting this advanced irrigation audit, which an engineering firm is coming in to do a systems-based audit. So they're gonna look at the way the system is designed, not only if our sprinkler heads are efficient, they'll tell us that, too. But then they're gonna look at, okay, but this type doesn't make sense to move into this type and those things. So I have, I guess three constituent related questions that kind of fit into this. So if we're not too strapped for time, one is sprinkler system audits. I have had resident complaints about mosquitoes. And what I do is I go out and it's always from an apartment building. Nobody from a single family home ever complains. But people don't like the spraying, though. And so I go out there and say, yeah, this is all HOA land. We can't get the city to do anything about this standing water. But boy, do these HOAs need a sprinkler system audit. So if there's a... There is, yes. Northern Water and our sponsors as well with Resource Central. So we have a goal to do at least five big properties a year. So HOAs just have to apply and then it's free for them. Great. So we need to have somebody selling the idea to them? Yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, including my neighborhood. Move Waters the Street a lot. Yeah, it's common. Yeah. This is a question for Dave, I think, which is I was in the historic east side and they're worried about their old trees because people are watering their lawns less and the city doesn't water the right of ways in that HOA list neighborhood. And they're worried that the trees aren't gonna get enough water. So do we think about that? Do we have a soil test that we can see how the tree is doing? So we think about it too with one of the things we're looking at. So there's a couple of things. Water conservation is something I think is a very responsible way, but also water can get expensive for some people. We have those large trees there. It really is, when you have to start cutting back, where do you cut back? So in that historic east side, we're trying to look at those trees and see if there's something we need to do our code to say we recognize we need to keep this asset from losing that. So we're looking at it right now. So we don't have a new solution, but it's something we have looked at over time even prior to some of the water conservation. Just said, yeah, that we're putting that burden on individuals that may not have the same interest or prioritization of that city resource within that area. Right, it used to just be accidental because they were watering it in the spring. Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. So we are looking, so our forestry and timber and the parks group are looking at that to see how we do a better job of making sure that we're meeting our water conservation goals, but also not losing some of the assets. So again, cooling and all the other pieces were sitting.  That's one of the pieces that, probably a little more you're asking, but as I was going out and looking at some of our parks and seeing some of the areas that I felt a little bit lacking is because we really have shifted over and really start looking at some of those more historic higher quality trees that have a risk to people and property if they fail. So there's a tree limb cycle that we try to get on, like in about every 10 years, every tree gets looked at. We're taking that down below 10 years now. So really, that's what we've been trying to get caught upon all those big trees that are getting older and making sure that the health of those trees is something we want to keep out there in the community if we need to replace it and if it needs to be proved in a way that helps maintain the health. So those big trees are a high value, high asset, high risk if we don't take care of it. So we can focus on those right now. Some of the old guys aren't much of those risks. So I've been seeing a little bit more loss in those areas, but we're trying to find that balance. Okay. And we also have part of our, we have a, I'll call it a pre-programmed information, public information on water conservation. And part of that, where we zoom right in on, make sure you continue to water your trees and even suggest in the wintertime periods, people get out there in January and February and water their trees, and they might not otherwise think of it because there's no leaves there, but they need moisture. So we do have that in our information pre-programmed package. Thank you. Both great answers. My last constituent question, the constituent is Allison, who the last time I saw you, Allison, we were both zooming out the door and you mentioned something about if we have water surpluses, do we have a way of leasing it to a consumer on the less slope where the drought is? And so because all of our conservation efforts we know are pretty much so far, they're proactive, right? We always have enough water. This is just, I don't expect you to have the answer, but I think that the council would approve some water quality improvement leases, river quality improvement leases, if we have the capability of doing it, but of course the council has no idea whether the city has the capability of doing it. So we don't have an individual capability of doing it because for two reasons, one is the windy gap water is only comfortable if it's needed. Sure. So it's not, and it's not needed, but no, not at all, but there isn't any access for it. For the CVT system, that underlying water right, A is owned by the federal government and it's just distributed by Northern Water, but it's a long month, it has a latte, can get an allotment, but the state law is pretty clear that you can only use water up, right? Projects of concerns within guns in the district. So to get around all of that, Northern Water Conservancy District, I'll say maybe more than general water for range water users, we've gone together, we went together years ago and acquired water on the west side of the card. There's a dish called the red top dish diverged out of the Colorado River upstream of Shadow Mountain, Colorado River goes into Shadow Mountain and then flows down with that, right? So we purchased a lot of the shares on the red top dish and you can't, essentially quit irrigating a bunch of high mountain meadows that, I mean it was grassy, nice, well grassy, but better use for that water was leaving in the stream. So that water from the red top dish accrues to the project and to see Shadow Mountain, they grab me and then is dedicated to downstream water use. And primarily the 15 mile reach and the endangered fish species on the Colorado River. So that's a fairly effective, it's, if I remember right, it's been years, but I remember right, you know, 5,000 acre feet. So that was a lot more effective than a long one, where we'd say, oh, we got a couple hundred acre feet, we could lease, you know. So that's 5,000 acre feet. And then in addition, part of the, when you get a perming project, the first three, the first 18 other, so acre feet is assigned to, goes to West Slope. So they get to use that, if that's used, but as part of the settlement for the firming project, if the West Slope doesn't need that for consumption use, i.e. middle park water concerns the stream, any of that excess then in August becomes available to Grand County, then can use it to augment the Colorado River in that August period. Windy Gap is never hardly ever pumping, it's never pumped in August, but even though it doesn't pump, the natural stream flow is a little, getting a little too warm. So we could pull it off of the fish, though. So it goes, it's released in the ice. So there's a, so the simple act, those programs are actually much more effective. They are, they are done. So, yeah, we just can't say I'm gonna take a little bit of water, water, long water and send it somewhere because. Right. So that's always the answer I've given and I've never really been sure of my ground. So, but I get the question a lot. Like, can't we just put it back? And so the answer is that regionally, those are, those needs are designed in to the extent that we can and we're doing what we can. And as a municipality, there's not a really effective way to do it. Yeah, and it wouldn't be as effective if we tried to do it. But certainly, Council has always supported Long Island and Northern and has supported those kind of regional, I think, sort of connectivity channel and the Red Top Ditch deal and all those things that happen. It'd be wonderful for me to do more. But it's best down the region. Right, thank you. Mike, does that sound good? Well, it's reasonable, Allison. I mean, I've done a year's worth of that, too. Well, it's complicated, that's for sure. Very, very good. Yeah, I just got David back to the city removing turf. And, you know, I think it's important that we can aesthetically do some of these things. I mean, things can look pretty good, even though grass isn't there. And to the extent, maybe we can show for two reasons, here's how good it can look. And also, we're doing our part at this important. We do, too, that's one of the things that I think trying to get on the front more, we can do demonstration stuff, if it's, you talk about mulching, that mulching can be wood mulch, it can be rock mulch, rock mulch. It's not this capacity that's dumped in a spot and then starts growing weeds in it. But, you know, we've done stuff over at Roosevelt, the entrance there, we've taken down some of the plant materials there. We've put in some more, really, my park sounds like rock by rock places. But it does have an aesthetic look to it. So using rocks, using organic mulches, using right plants in the right place is another really important piece that we try to do. And again, there's a lot of pieces that as we think about this, that just taking out turf, turf bluegrass in ourself, it helps water be taken in and absorb more soil than just running off. So we think about the run-off side. We think about the cooling side of it. We think about the greenhouse gas absorption by grasses too. So how do you strike that balance of keeping our city cool and green while having, again, that water conservation piece? So I think as we keep going forward this, we'll keep in our parks and in our public spaces good chances to try to evaluate that and hope who works very closely with Ben Gratton and my horticulture crew were there that that relationship is we can start measuring that too and say that we achieve our goals. The goal is just to reduce water. There's ways to do that. If there's a way to reduce water, maintain those aesthetics, maintain some of those other desires of our community, I think that's much harder. I think we're working really hard at achieving that right now, finding that balance. That's hopefully gonna be part of our growing WaterSmart. We have one person who's really dedicated to creating those metrics and creating project templates so that we can have all of our projects being measured by the same metrics. So that's really important. And then I just wanna say that that came up a lot at that point at the workshop, is that turf net is not evil. That's not what our goal is, is to, that we can't just live in a world without turf. It's important. But that's when efficiency comes into play. If this is essential turf and it's used, then we wanna make sure that it's used and we're watering it in a sufficient way. What is the incentive for turf? Where are we offering it in the city now? We're offering sort of like a stipend. So up to $750 of working with Resource Central. And you can use that money whether you get a discount on having Resource Central remove your turf at a discount rate. So without being within the community at Longmont, it's $2.50 per square foot of removal with the Resource Central program, it's $1. So you could use, if you have 750 square foot that you wanna remove, you can just pay them to do all of it. Or you can get garden and box plants. So it's kind of a choose your own adventure stipend that we provide for our community members. You're familiar with Resource Central? Yeah, it's a non-profit that operates out of Boulder. They're the ones who run and manage the majority of our programs. So they're a conservation based organization that tries to get our communities in Boulder County. And actually all across the front range. They work all the way up to Greeley to Colorado Springs and actually Pueblo too. So they provide garden and boxes with curated water efficient program that you basically get a plant by number guide. Then they give you all the plants and you just follow how to plant it. And then we do their turf removal program as well. And then they also provide education. So we use them for water-wise seminars that we do twice a year.  And real quick on the turf conversion piece of what we're doing right now. That was something that I think some councilman first brought to our attention. The other communities were actually taking part in that. What was long not doing? And what we're doing and not doing. And it really was kind of taking initiative and saying we can find some dollars. We can't really probably do it all about a budget cycle but we can find some dollars within our program. So it can really mean to happen, just. Thank you again. Because I don't know who else got letters but I sure did. My neighbor down in Luffy got their turf removed. Yeah, we knew we were gonna be there at some point. And I said, I can't just sit in front and see what we can do. Yeah, and it was oversubscribed, right? Now I'm feeling guilty because I figured I wouldn't get in. Now feel lucky. Yeah, well I do feel lucky but it's like. No, don't go there. It's great. We're gonna get everybody eventually. So the next trick is to teach a carbon sequestration class, right?  I love that. Okay. David's helping with that. Yeah. That's grasses. You would notice how much biomass is underground and how much carbon sequestration and grasses and stuff really provide us. So there are some people in organizations like stand with our same brain that are heavily into that, so. Yeah. Definitely work close with that group too. Yeah. Good discussion. All right. Hope. Ron, you have a question. Sorry. So not going back and forth between two kind of different conversations, but can I have a question about like the red top ditch deal and things that you were talking about? Who, like, where do those projects come from? So in other words, like this, you know, in the case of the couple of examples that you showed, like, did those come from Northern Water or from the Bureau or from somebody, or Reclamation, of course, or somebody, or did, you know, from top down or did that come from kind of like some grassroots kind of idea that kind of trickled up from the bottom up or do you remember in those cases? The red top, no, the red top ditch, whole concept of credit, Northern Water, how it happened was as part of the conversations around the endangered species on the Colorado River I don't remember the numbers there. When a species conservation plan is done or it's called a recovery implementation plan, that identified a large amount, I'm going to say like about 15,000 acre of the water was needed in the 15 mile reach, which is just upstream of Grand Junction, the critical reach for the endangered fish on the Colorado River. How was that going to happen? And so all water providers were pretty hard. Some water was available out of Rood Eye Reservoir, and I think that water's leased. I'm not sure if there was some excess water in Rood Eye. It wasn't a lot. That was a federal Euroreclamation project that all of it wasn't taken out. So some of the water came from there, and then I believe Denver Water did some water out of Wolford Mountain Reservoir, because when they built Wolford Mountain, they didn't need it. It was half of the Colorado River Water Conservancy District and half of it was taken out by Denver, but it was the Colorado River. So Windy Gap was built, the original Project 85, made a payment to the West Slope to build compensatory storage. So Wolford Mountain was a compensatory storage reservoir for the West Slope for the Windy Gap project. Denver Water came to the table with some money, so they got like capacity Wolford Mountain for like 50 years or something like that. And then of that overall capacity, some of that was dedicated to that, some of that, but then the water provider was in the northern Colorado, in the northern water.  We do that, and it was determined too difficult to just say, hey, we've got some water and see what we can get out of this down there. And that's when the idea of the Red Top Gauge. And so, the idea comes from YouTube, the big multi-stakeholder kind of... Engagements, engagements. That then identify need, then the various stakeholders go out and try to identify ways to meet that need and in a collaborative fashion. And so, yeah, that makes the difference. So the Windy Gap project, CBT, Northern Water, CBT purchased a lot of the Red Top Gauge Windy Gap project, also contributed some, I believe the Fermi project, really contributed a little bit in wanting to do that. I can't remember how that all looked like. But yeah, it was a result of regional cooperation and Northern Water stepping up, saying we need to make this happen. And here's how we can make it happen without impacting. And when it's all said and done, Northern Water is the representative for the various people that get water through Northern Water. And they're ultimately the stakeholder on those committees or those entities. Yeah. So they're in a way, I mean, for all things purposes, they represent us in a way on those efforts. I'm sorry, just to... Let's show how complicated this is. We've talked about that regional ability of working with the Westlake. When you have that little bit, Water, Longmont has leftover, why can't we send it there? Can also get as pushes, why can't we use it here? We have local agriculture coming to Longmont, quite often, saying, you guys have some additional water. Why aren't we using it here in same-bound ditches? We also have ecosystem needs here that a lot of those times it'd be nice to have some water in our same brain for our fisheries here, too. So if I deal with these local issues plus those regional issues, Ken and Wes and this group is always gonna pull down where is the best place to keep our water, hold our water, make sure we're not drawing things from our next year's needs here locally, too. Yeah, I mean, I think that's enough for the time that I'll raise my hand at it.  I think that there's an interest in this room about having some kind of, you know, for lack of a better term, kind of mitigation program, right? Like, but if Longmont is to control such a thing, right, then I think the water that we have the greatest amount of control over is things like, you know, water up and down, for example, you know, to be able to kind of like design our systems in such a way that we're getting water in the same brain in ways that are helpful to our kind of local ecosystems, right?  So, you know, those are the types of things that I feel like we may have like some control over and potentially could innovate around. I think like the West Slope is probably such a complicated discussion that those things, you know, those things are very much outside of our, our realm of direct influence at the very least, but like I said, these kind of local ecosystem issues, we may have more, more ability to do something. I think that's a great idea. And if I hadn't been rude enough to ask a fourth question, that would have been it, you know, it was like, but I don't know how long the agenda is. So I thought maybe another time. Pretty well, yeah. Where are they close to the end? Well, then, so. Well, you got 10 minutes more. OK, Roger, this is not a 10 minute question. I frequently am asked by the people on the far edge of the conference conservation special interest, why do we have golf courses? Why don't we drive those up? You know, why don't we? And I always come back and say, well, you know, you probably are in the minority, don't want to bribe the golf courses so far, but what are you going to do with the water that you're not using on those golf courses? And so at some point, it seems to me that we should be developing some hierarchy, you know, because even if the water stays on the east slope, you've got golf courses at one end in the spectrum and keeping our reservoirs full. And then you've got agriculture east of us. And then you've got sending water down so that the water table out near Kansas can be replenished. You know, that's a stretch, because I don't really know. Sometimes you read that those water tables are at risk. But it would be good if one had more of a policy about that, or maybe internally we do when it's not articulated, but I just think it's something to think about. Yeah, we certainly can put more detail to that. Our guiding water principle says if we have excess water, that it doesn't impact our water supply. We can use that for some environmental projects. That's not a very specific. I mean, I totally agree with that guiding water principle. But yeah, more meat on that could be good. Yeah, and that's right, because when the council has asked the question like why are we wasting water on golf courses, we don't have an answer for where is the unmet need. Because in the long run, right now, we don't have any of that needs. But there might be higher and better uses than a golf course at some point in the future. And so we shouldn't thought it through before there are more than three people in the city that are asking that question. Just a question about golf course watering. Is that all? Is that treated water we are using sometimes? Yes, sometimes, no, or all? Two of our courses are raw water, and one of our courses is treated. Some of our courses are treated. You know, and I heard that I always thought there was ditch water running right through sunset. And why are we using treated water? I'm sure I'm missing something. But maybe all that water that runs through there is spoken for, I don't know, make any sense at all. Historically, there was some ditches that ran through there. And I think at one time, it probably was being treated with raw water. I'd heard that too. But at some point, it was transferred over to treated. I was going to say, your staff is always thinking that way. I know Ken had just talked to me again about it. But there's definitely those trade-offs, as far as that's a conversation that we need to have with recreation. Because managing a group that managed some parts with domestic water, treated water, and some with raw water. Raw water has definitely some challenges for operational side things, be it filters and pumps and ponds and all those pieces. So it does have some challenges. But I know Ken and I have just recently talked about this desire to see what can you really do to look at trying to make sure as we convert parts to raw water, also be that for all of our golf courses. I do apologize. I have a 4 o'clock with David. I'm on first. Thanks, David. Yep. Glad we got this in the discussion. I was going to say, it started stirring. See you, David. Thank you. All right. OK, moving on. Oh, Jeff, Natalie, right? Can you wait? Thank you, so much. Yeah. Just a couple of things. This has been a really great discussion. And I would love it if we could continue it. I think that to take your point, we are a lot of the water that we get from the last vote has never achieved our participation in deals with water. So Northern in some ways is our representative, but also we are their client. And to the extent we have interests in figuring out solutions where some of the water that we would otherwise divert and conserve can be put back into the west slope system when and where it's needed, I think that voicing that interest to Northern if it doesn't come from us, who would it come from? And they're the ones who are going to know their system better than anybody else. But if they don't have something coming to them and telling them that's what they would like to see happen, why would they do it? I mean, their goal is to deliver water to us for what we want it for. And if that's all we're telling them that we want it from them, then why would they ever do anything to them? So that's point number one. Point number two is there's a lot of reservoirs up there. There's a lot of different Euroreformation contracts up there. One of the things that my organization does, it buys water when they do a reclamation. But it's already degree 400, and it delivers it down to our generation, which is right by the team on each, for hydro-cow purposes. So it takes things that are already agree for certain uses and buys them and gets them to where they want it. And the key there is timing. The fish recovery program is called 300 to 400 CFS short almost every year. It's getting worse in the early summer. And it's a matter of timing. I didn't know that. Yeah, and it's just this really discrete period. It's not all, all time. It's just this one discrete period because you have different calls on the river.   And for example, the one for it goes dry almost every year for this exact reason. And if we could just figure out ways to retime that and just get the water back on the river, just for that discrete period of time, it would make you have a difference. The last point is, you're touching on this. There's programs out there. We don't want to lose our water rights. Like that's something long and incredibly good job ensuring that over the course of 70, longer years. If we do loss of conservation, we should be cognizant of the fact that by not using that water, we're opening ourselves up to decrease. And the historians have to use which termination is the value of our water rights and also potential agreement. There are programs out there that are intended to protect that, but they take due into that in place. So to the extent we want to protect our water rights, but simultaneously taking advantage of the fact that we can't do conservation, I think we should marry them to a certain individual. Okay, those are great points. I didn't know that either. And I just want to put in in terms of regional influence and something that we online have at least some strong with is the water rights have long been a power authority because they are in the next 15 years, probably unless they get heavily into hydrogen electrolysis are gonna need less water. And they've got more water than they need now. And so those water rights need to be protected or properly disposed of. And even if they're in a electrolysis, I mean, that's a pump that you prime and then you can recapture the water and use it over and over again. So we should use our influence with PRPA on water. Water policy, I guess it's part of that whole general. It's not an immediate need, but we shouldn't be caught flat-footed on this. What was that point when I dropped it? No, I'm sorry. In terms of providing water to agriculture, I think that's great. If we can do that, we should tie it in a way that not only does it deliver large agriculture, but maybe fortifies the stream in between. So say we know that the sacred creek really tanks in the 15 days in September, that's when we do time, our delivery is too bad, that's downstream of that dry stretch. So we can do both, it doesn't have to be zero. When we do the same, we'll do it with the same water. Same water, yeah, so. The problem that is a lot of water is just kind of a sub-forbast in my answer. The dry up point is down here. So like on the highland system, they're pulling away my lines. I think it's a good idea to have the dry up is down here. That's what we're seeing a lot of other guys bringing. Kim Buck has a bill that he runs periodically about farther east ditches. You know, I'm not Kim Buck's biggest fan, but there is a bill out there that might fund rearranging the ditches so that they, so that seasonal needs would be better addressed by the network.  When's the last time the comp plan a bidder's in the process of being a bidder, Mark, or? Yeah, I don't know. Just because I'm not smart enough to look at the budget and see whether those pieces are in there. There's comp plans, new comp plans, items in the budget, but I don't know how much for a portion of it. Yeah, I don't know. They kind of indicated to us that they would really like to get started on a comp plan update within the year. I believe they're looking to start their R and Q process, R and Q process, within this year or next year to get a consultant to do that. And that was the thing I was talking with you and Harold about too is, yeah, is what densities we model because the planners are looking at considerable increases in density, which means, you know, less turf. Yeah, well, that's where my thought seems like our densities are, I don't know what they were planning for, but it's coming our way and do we have, what are the consequences, water-wise? It's a long range, but it's all stuff we think about. It's not that long range anymore. Because of the housing crunch that we're in from many different directions, for people leaving houses, housing too, we don't really know if we got more than 120,000 people here, which is the end of our current comp plan, but I don't know how much water we would, how many, how much population we could use for this. So I can't tell you what you currently see out there, which, you know, it was really contemplating the last comp plan update, which was then incorporated into our latest, most recent water, future water supply demand analysis. So we have the water for what's happening now, what you're seeing now. Yeah, the comp plan updates, it has significant, and I'm talking from four stories to five stories, you know, maybe 20, yeah, really significant increases. Then we would have to take a look at that. I can't tell you without running a membership, water conservation is gonna play an enormous role in meeting that future demand. Very confident in our conservation program. It's gonna take us, it's gonna really take us and help us, so that will be very significant. Then the second was we have projects, traditional filings and projects out there that we can rely on. What are we gonna need to get to be attainable through projects in money, but it's a little bit different than what I think about Aurora, they're growing out to the east, they're bone dry culture, you know, they don't, they gotta do something else. They're gonna do something different and well, that's very fortunate to have a foresight in the project for me. I just, yeah, just one last thing. Your comment about some influence in Northern water, I don't know if you ever worded that. Are you asking the question where that can come from or how do we influence them? I'm not sure where you were going with that. I guess asking the question first, I mean, average for everything is more than one. Well, Marcia and I sit on a- On the wind, yeah, which is subset, but the other question I have is we had, I wrote recommendations for two former water board members to be on the Northern water board. I don't know whether either of them were selected or not. Well, Todd's on the Northern board and Dennis Chan-Chunis is on the Northern board. Okay. Both former board, one, one, one, one, one. Okay, so two out of three. I didn't, Dennis was before my time, I believe. Yeah, not too long. Yeah, or maybe he was, he didn't ask me for a recommendation. Pam, that was Pam, is that right? She used to sit where Roger's sitting all the time. Did she say, yeah. No, it wasn't Pam, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. Renee Davis, yeah. Yeah, I think. It might have been it. Maybe she moved out of the area, Joe. Yeah, she moved out of the area. Yeah, so she would have had a design if she was selected. Right, but yeah, I think not only Longmont, but the other front, we've got Boulder who's been always Longmont, and Fort Collins is really in there. Generally, the larger men's families, their board just needs to hear from us. Yeah, takes a while. And that means that the people who know what could be suggested need to raise the issues before the council, then we can push the policy suggestions around. Okay, I was just going to just really quickly add it. I mean, so those west slope issues, I guess the point I was trying to get through before was that those west slope issues are so publicized. I mean, it's the Colorado River, it's a big thing, right? And so there's these multi-stakeholder entities that need to figure out what is needed on the river and what we can do, et cetera. And I agree that being engaged with that and especially working with our partners and pressuring or working with them in some way to kind of be engaged in those programs is really important. Of course, having worked for a smaller, similar organizations to kind of like Colorado Parks and Wildlife or something, but on smaller streams and rivers, right? Those are, of course, not nearly as publicized. I mean, I don't know that any of us could, I mean, I think some of us in here could figure out what is needed on the west slope or heard that in news or something, but for example, what's needed in the same frame, right? And we work with our kind of like local, very local, hyper-local program managers and things with fish wildlife parks just right here in our local area that we could potentially have influence on by helping with the needs in our local streams and rivers that we again have more control over, right? And I feel like those issues, of course, are of lesser priority, both the fish and wildlife, you know, but also, you know, with news organizations and things like that so we don't really know what is needed in this kind of local, hyper-local kind of area, right? But again, I think that those types of projects, those are the types of places that our local populace goes, you know, on weekends to go fishing, et cetera. And if it was like, there was a sign at some, you know, I don't know, some popular fishing spot that basically said, you know, some fraction of this water was provided by your local waters and, you know, organization by the City of Longmont, essentially. You know, those are the types of things, I think, that really do a good job of kind of like leading by example, by kind of exemplifying the values that Longmont wants to, or, you know, meeting the chains that we want to see in the world, essentially. You know, those are the types of things that I think we have more control over and are maybe a little bit easier wins than trying to solve the rest of the problems, although you should, of course, be engaged in that as well. But anyway, fill in that. Yeah, along that line, the same, we work closely, capital work really closely with the same rate of low-time water, because everyone's a district on a stream management plan. Yeah, that stream management plan really gives you a guidance of what we need locally on the same-brained creek, all the way from environmental flows to recreation flows to projects. Right. And so, yeah, I think that is, stream management plan is kind of our local areas' goal or vision for helping the same-brained. Isn't it? Yeah. I agree. We can have some influence on that. And I believe the district is interested in finding out, they've made the plan now. Sorry. Interesting. Okay. Item 11, information, items and water board correspondence.  And if we had anybody in line, like me, I was just kind of curious, Tom, Allison, have you two come up with anything? Anybody that you have proposed to apply for the board? And you don't need to share, but I mean, is that something that there's a movement? Well, I'll just spend, so I have not suggested, so my problem is that my kind of community, my water community, you know, is kind of distant from local, right? Because I mean, my work is down in Denver and I engage in a variety of different kind of statewide issues, but I don't necessarily this is my first kind of foray into the long water scene, let's say, so I'm relying on all of you really to be kind of tough to learn from. And so I haven't, other than I'm inside this entity, I haven't really engaged outside. So, well, maybe we'll see what's left in, but so what's left in my issue, Allison? Yeah, I reached out when we had the last opening. I was particularly interested in trying to be an engineer in terms of my application. There's a couple of water engineering programs in town. Well, if we can do that, I've tried and did not get much movement so anyway. Yeah, I mean, it's too bad. I hope we can fill another position to see how it works out. I know there was one individual in the development community that was interested, but he didn't get his application in on time. And so one of the three posts that I believe he's going to reapply. Well, it's opening now to really blow this. So if there's some out there that I don't want to cut off the October October 14th. Yeah, so give that guy a poke. Allison, give that guy a poke. Yep, I will. And I will contact the city clerk's office to see if they've received it for all I know they've already received some. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I wonder if I could add one thing on that. I was going to bring up anyway. As you may remember, there's a little bit of a new interview process with the board. So we'll be asking board, water board over board meeting if anybody's interested beyond the interview team and setting up whether you do it as a all the board members who generally the city clerk staff is saying best is the couple so you don't overwhelm the applicants. But I'm certain to do it as a board and we'll probably set those interviews up in November so that information can be given to council and then council does the final review if they need an interview and selection in December. We had that discussion as I recall the way we left it is we individually decide if we want to be in the interviews or not and if we want to be in the interviews if we left it so be it. So that's kind of where we left it. Can I ask somebody saying well two is the number but I didn't get that education if they wanted so. Actually two is the number so you can do it as in this meeting so that it's a posted meeting or if you want to have an extra meeting to do it you can do it with two so that it doesn't have to be posted or you need to get the city clerk's office to post it or we can advance if all you wanted to have it without the staff but more than two board members there. So it's just like any other open meetings and a lot of things. Anyway we'll ask another one. We'll follow up with the board on that. Just the last item item schedule. Do you have any questions or comments on what we have left in the program or do you want to add anything to it? I kind of wonder so we tend to have what I've noticed when I first started back last year let's say through that fall and into the winter we were really heavily engaged with a lot of discussion about captioning and I think that that one's kind of self-sustaining because there was this big change that we were asked to participate in it's somewhat self-sustaining at this point sometimes we have development activities sometimes we don't and what I tend to notice is just like this meeting and it seemed like there wasn't a whole lot to chat about 3.30 year old around and it was kind of like you might be out of here by 3.45 and then we kind of had almost like an impromptu type workshop in a way about some kind of bigger issue right but where a lot of questions came up and we were talking a lot about different constipation approaches so I'm wondering whether we should have almost kind of a list of tackling some of these bigger issues in a slightly more prepared way than just kind of talking informally when the time is available when it seems like we're going to wind down in 3.45 and then all of a sudden we start chatting about stuff whether or not we kind of build in half an hour or something into each of these meetings that could be the first thing to get knocked off the list if the discussion of the other issues runs longer than expected and so whether there are topic areas that we can have a more kind of considered discussion where we all kind of expect that that's what we're going to talk about if the time elapsed or something and I so those types of things could be many of the things that we talked about today could be things about how to kind of manage water a little differently to kind of keep water in the river for various times of the year if we have a point person who has in their hip pocket kind of the talking points on those issues again if the time I mean of course the priority to the things that are on the agenda that maybe have a half an hour's discussion kind of in our hip pocket waiting if we have time that may kind of that we can have those discussions I think is a good point whereas if we have something burning that we feel that we're time-respected on if somebody has something like that we ought to feed that again or have that so we all know that it's sitting out there if we can tackle it you know I have no problem with that and it probably would be a little more thought-provoking if we knew that's down the line and we could think about it isn't that what the call at the beginning of every meeting for adding items to future agendas is there for because you know as a the stimulus this time was the report about the workshop right and it's oh well if all that's on the table here are all these other topics now what a time for Heather not to be here right because ideally she would prepare a list and then we would put those on future agendas but not all at once that's a good point it was a good discussion I mean I'm glad we had the time because we're still on half an hour early yeah the market began 10 minutes and you took 25 no no no I took my time this was so interesting that was a good discussion okay anybody else well given that it was a good meeting was it


Welcome back after the break. We are looking at chapter 8 where we are looking at Jesus as the Sinless Lamb and to understand how he is the Sinless Lamb we are looking at some of the Old Testament sacrifices that talk to us or show us how Jesus grows the Sinless Lamb because the Old Testament has a lot of details about sacrifices that the God had ordained for the people of this tribe and by looking and studying these sacrifices we will understand how Jesus became the Sinless Lamb who took on the sins of the poor boy and made the poor sufficient perfect sacrifice and the first sacrifice that was instituted by God we see here is the Passover sacrifice and in that we see that God tells them to make a sacrifice of a Lamb that is a main Lamb here without a blemish spot for any sickness or disease or any physical disability and hence we see that Jesus is also called the Passover Lamb because he was pure holy without blemish which means that he was Sinless and he could take on the sins of the poor boy and hence he made the poor sufficient and perfect sacrifice. Now we look at a few more sacrifices in the Old Testament and we will look at those sacrifices when you will see how Jesus fulfilled those sacrifices and hence we don't have to look for sacrifices and how he could fill it by being the Sinless Lamb of God. The second sacrifice we will look at is the Lamb that was sacrificed in the morning and evening sacrifice. We read this in Exodus chapter 29 verses 28 to 42 so I request one of you to read that piece. With 16 of us I need to read good if more of you could turn in your Bibles and read so that there will be a good class participation okay so can one of you please read Exodus chapter 29 verses 38 to 42. Exodus chapter 29 verses 38 to 42 now this is what you shall offer on the altar two lamps of the first year day by day continually one lamp you shall offer in the morning and the other you shall offer at twilight with the one lamp you shall be one tenth of an effer of flour mixed with one fourth of a hint of pressed oil and one fourth of a hint of wine as a drink offering and the other lamp you shall offer at twilight and you shall offer it the grain offering and the drink offering as in the morning for a sweet aroma and offering made by the fire of the door fire of the Lord this shall be continually born offering throughout your generation at the door of the tabernacle of the meeting before the Lord where I will meet you to speak with you thank you so you know we see the details that God gives the description for the morning and evening sacrifice so there had to be a morning sacrifice the evening sacrifice that had to be done daily and had to be continued throughout the generations okay so in both the morning and evening sacrifices baby was offered a lamp that was a burnt offering and this this lamp was sacrificed completely it was burnt at the altar in addition to the sacrifice of the lamp we see that this morning and evening a sacrifice also consists of a grain and a drink offering which is known as a meal offering m e a l it's also called a meal offering and these this meal offering which comprise of grain and drink offering did not contain or the products that did not contain any blood okay so the primary importance of this burnt offering was that it could atone for the sins of the Israelites okay so that God could when the sins were atoned you know God would come could come and who God who is holy who is pure who cannot stand sin would come and relate to the people of Israel who come in their midst and we understand that we are simple we are holy sin the law of sin reigns in our mortal bodies and hence we can't relate to God and these sacrifices both the morning and evening kind of atone which means kind of covered our sins and notes that it was just something that covered their sins but could not take away their sins totally and hence both the morning and evening sacrifices had to be made it had to be made daily and God said through the generations okay so we see that the animal sacrificed the lamb that was made as a burnt offering was basically to cover for the sins so the death that animal took our place took the represented the the Israelite race okay it was it took their place and it took on itself their sins and dying in their face and I think we'll say this uh and the word offering also speaks of a complete consecration because the entire animal being uh had to be sacrificed and was consumed by fire uh it basically resembles uh you know that there had to be complete concentration uh of the people of God uh so that we God would relate to them what would speak to them so basically the entire sacrifice of the entire lamb being sacrificed the entire lamb being consumed by fire is basically uh the teaching or spoke of complete consecration now the meal offering uh basically consisted of the first foods that people gave the first produce of their labor therefore the meal offering dissembles or the spoke of uh consecrating one's whole life and substance to God everything that they owned you know their very life and everything that they have the blessing of the work of their hands everything was consecrated to God so this is the meaning of this morning and we will sacrifice the burnt offering a spoke of complete consecration because the entire sacrifice was consumed by fire and the meal offering that was uh the the first foods of the produce of their land or their labor basically spoke of consecrating one's life uh uh giving them everything they're all everything that they had to belong to uh God so the daily sacrifice the morning and evening daily sacrifice spoke of daily atoning for the sins of for the people and also it spoke of daily consecration daily consecrating themselves submitting themselves uh in obedience in alignment to will to the plan in the purpose of keeping office laws and uh commandments now we see that Jesus who is the sinless Lamb of God did not need to offer up daily sacrifices okay why didn't he have to offer up uh daily sacrifices as being the sinless Lamb of God uh we will look at what Hebrews chapter seven was 26 and 27 says uh get one theory in Hebrews chapter seven was 26 and 27 please for as such a high priest was fitting for us who is holy harmless undefiled separate from sinners and has become higher than the heavens what does not need daily as those high priests to offer up sacrifices first for their own sin and then for the people's for this he did once for all when he offered up himself thank you so here we see that uh you know the high priest here uh refers to as Jesus who is a great interceding uh high priest and mediator uh so we see that uh you know he was holy he was undefiled uh he was sinless he was separate from the entire human race in that that he was sinless and we see that because he was without language or sport or uh and that he was sinless he did not need to offer up uh daily sacrifices it says here in verse 27 who does not need daily as those high priests to offer up sacrifices first for their own sins then for the people's so we see in the uh in the Old Testament uh the priest on the day of atonement we already looked at it in Hebrews chapter we saw that if the priest had to uh take two lamb or two goats one uh uh lamb that we had to you know sacrifice it and then uh uh you know he would take it to the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat of the of the uh in the Ark of the Covenant and we see that before he the priest goes into the Holy of Holies we had to cleanse himself by washing his clothes and he also had to offer a ram as a sacrifice for his whole sins before he went into the Holy of Holies because he himself is sinful he himself is committed a lot of sins so he had to atone for his own sins and then atone for the sins of the entire Israelite race and the second lamb we saw that in was a scapegoat in which they placed the priest who places his hands on that boat and he would let it off into the wilderness where he could uh die so this was the very sacrifice that was done and we see that Jesus did not have to do this uh daily sacrifices why uh because it says here uh you know and you know that had to offer up uh sacrifice for himself because he was sinless and so he did not have to offer up any sins for his own self uh but you know he did it or he made a full sufficient sacrifice for once for all okay and as I mentioned uh a few minutes earlier that uh every sacrifice that was made even if it was the early atonement sacrifice or it was the Passover pieces that updated or it wasn't any sacrifice they didn't have made for their own sins or for their own cleansing we see that it was just an atonement it was a cover up for their sins just covered their sins uh you know uh for a temporary period for a short time okay and that is why they must require the morning and evening sacrifices because you know they would sin through all the days of the evening sacrifices they might sin through all the evening the night so the morning sacrifice okay but when we see that Jesus did not have to make this morning and evening sacrifice because the one sacrifice that he made of his very life on the cross uh you know or made was the full sufficient perfect sacrifice that God required once for all for the sins of the entire human race past present and future and in the peace of God in the tone totally once for all forever the sins of the entire human race and hence uh there was no need for Jesus himself to and we need uh sacrifice okay so if somebody read Hebrews chapter 10 verses 11 and 12 please Hebrews 10 11 and 12 and everything gone okay one of you can read Hebrews 10 11 and 12 and every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifice which can never take away sins but this man after he had offered one sacrifice for his sin forever sat down at the right hand of God thank you so here we see that the priest even though they offer the morning and sacrifice they would never take away the sins that are doing for the sins of uh of mankind but we see this man and the capital M there refers to Jesus Christ that he offered up for one sacrifice for sins forever and sat down with the right hand of God that means he made a full sufficient perfect sacrifice okay and why did he not have to do daily sacrifices is because Jesus was holy like we read he was harmless undefiled and separate from sinners and also we see that you know Jesus was one with the Father okay we looked at the earlier chapters that he was in the prison of the father which means talks about his perfect oneness his intimacy his unity uh in his relationship with the father and we see that he was Jesus was fully surrendered and his life was totally consecrated uh and he was sinless lamb uh and hence uh by offering up of himself as a sacrifice he bought and went to the daily sacrifice why because that he was the he was a sinless uh lamb and also his life was totally and fully consecrated remember I said that the daily offerings of morning and evening sacrifices it spoke of the symbol um you know the atonement for such the sins and also of uh consecration of one's whole life and everything that they can yes for you have your hand question okay any questions anyone else so we saw how Jesus is the Passover lamb and how you know uh because he made the full sufficient perfect sacrifice he would not have to make the morning and evening sacrifices uh daily uh but generations to come as God had instituted uh in the sacrificial system for new instruments and we will look at Jesus as the suffering lamb uh Isaiah chapter 53 was a seven to ten in one of you do that piece Isaiah chapter 53 was seven to ten and as someone else can open up to first Peter chapter 2 verses 21 to 24 Isaiah chapter 53 verses 7 to 10 he was oppressed he was affiliated he was opened he opened not his mouth he was led as a lamb to be to the slaughter as a sheep before his share in his silent so he opened not his mouth he was taken from prison and from judgment and who will declare his generation for he was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of my people he was stricken and they made his grave with the wicked but with the rich at his death because he had done no violence nor was any deceit in his mouth yet yet it pleased the Lord to abuse him he was put him to grief when you may when you make his soul an offering for sin he shall see his seed he shall prolong his day and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand thank you can someone else can read first Peter chapter 2 verse 21 to 24 you don't have the Bible so when you want me to put it up on the screen first Peter chapter 2 verse 21 to 24 for to this you were caught because Christ also suffered for us living us an example that if you follow his step who committed no sin nor was the seed found in it he was revived did not revive in return when he suffered he did not threaten him but committed himself to him who judged righteousness who himself bore our sin in his own body on the tree that we haven't died to sins might live for righteousness by whose tribe you are healed thank you so here we see that scripture talks about you know the suffering now and who is referred to in uh who's spoken about in Isaiah chapter 53 who is the he mentioned here he was oppressed he was afflicted he opened up his mouth he was led as a lamp to slaughter so who is that he mentioned in Isaiah chapter 53 verse 7 to 10 and Jesus yes thank you Jesus and so we see that Jesus was like the lamp okay led to the slaughter uh taking on the sins of the entire human race okay so we see the scripture talks about Christ as a suffering lamb and it mentions that he was oppressed he was afflicted uh when he was revived that means when he was criticized when he was uh when they said very unpleasant things and through strongly uh strong words and and said unpleasant things towards him he did not retaliate in return he did not criticize them in return he did not say unpleasant things in return and he also describes how Christ willingly and passively bore the finality for our sins we see that he was stricken that means he was beaten he was abused for the sins of the people and it was the will of God he was the will of God that Jesus be bruised okay if you note the purpose of this suffering here was you make his soul and offering for sin which is mentioned here in uh yeah he make his uh when he was 10 or by Isaiah chapter 53 it says yeah he's the Lord to bruise him and he was and he was put and he has put him to sleep when you make his soul and offering for sin okay so the word offering in uh he bruised a sham which means a trespass offering that means a sin offering okay or a guilt offering the word trespass means uh here means guilt and it denotes being guilty or of violating the rights of others uh whether it is God or man so we see that Christ became as a suffering lamb of God so that he could make his life as an offering for the sins as a trespass offering as a guilt offering and we need about this trespass offering or this guilt offering in leviticus chapter five took the whole of chapter five versus 40 almost till chapter six versus seven we also need about it in numbers chapter five versus seven and eight and in this specific trespass offering which is called also as the guilt offering we see that the person who has violated a right or who has infringed on the rights of others and violated the rights of others or whether it is God or man they have to make a sacrifice to God so they have to come to the temple they have to make a sacrifice to God and they also had to pay back the person whose rights they had infringed upon or violated they had to give back exactly what the losses that has occurred and apart from that they had to you know make a payment of one-fifth of the total you know loss that was occurred so they have to make a sacrifice to God and it was not just a restitution or sacrifice to atone for their sins or cover up for their sins with God but they had to go back to the person that they had sinned against and they had to give back exactly what they have taken and they also had to pay back one-fifth of the total expenditure or the loss that had occurred so basically they pay back 120 percent of what you know the rights they had infringed or violated of others so we find that you know Jesus Christ became the suffering lamb so that his life could be an offering for the you know as a for the huge that the huge offering for you know the the the the laws that we have violated the way we have violated the laws for the way that we have violated his commandments the way that we have fought against him and many things and also the way that we have infringed or violated others' rights as well so Jesus Christ became the trespass offering for that guilt offering again so we see that the trespass offering not only you know involved in the atonement for the sin but also social restitution for the wrong that I think made okay so Christ became our trespass offering and how did he became our the guilt offering in our place he made restitution for us by paying for the debts for our sins to a wild holy god to whom we have you know violated all of his commands his laws his standards and his forgiveness and so we see that Christ Jesus provided the required compensation that needed to satisfy God so that we can be reconciled back to so through the trespass offering that Jesus made or the guilt offering that he's made we see that he made he gave his very life away so he made restitution for us by paying for debt for our sin to a holy god who had been violated and so this compensation that was required by God to satisfy only the sins of mankind but also to restore back the relationship to reconcile man back to God and hence Jesus the sinless Lamb of God made that perfect sacrifice that was required for the compensation needed by God to satisfy this holy god whom we had guilty before and whom we had violated okay if you look at Hebrews chapter 13 verse 11 and 12 okay one few things that is Hebrews chapter 13 verse 11 and 12 Hebrews chapter 13 verse 11 and 12 for the bodies of those animals whose body is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin are born outside the camp therefore Jesus also that he might sanctify the people with his own blood so far outside the cage remain thank you so we say that in this in this verses we read that the Christ support outside the the outside the city he was suffered he was crucified on the first outside city and that is related to the bodies of those animals that were born outside the sanctuary we see that you know in both cases he sacrificed if you read the animal was sacrificed the blood was you know spilled on the altar or sprinkled on the altar once in a year it was sprinkled on the mercy seat of the half of the coming but we see that you know the skill of the animals they perform so the they know the other inside and everything was drawn outside the city and sometimes even the animal was even burnt outside the city which is the leftover parts but also some parts of the animal was burnt white because once the animal was the sins was placed upon the animal the animal was sinful it was unholy it was now without blemish or it was it was stained and hence it was considered as unholy and so it was burnt outside the city because it was unholy and so we see that the Jesus the sinner as an animal called was holy but for our sins he took on sins he became the sinner in our place and hence you know since he took on the sins of the whole world mankind the sins of the whole mankind was placed on him just like the lamb that was without blemish and the sins of the Israelite race was put on that the lamb became you know sinful sinful and it was born outside the city and hence we see that Jesus himself was spotless without any sin he was holy but when he took on the sins of the entire human race he was sacrificed he was seen as someone the testable in the eyes of the Jews the high priests the Jewish leaders they did not like him they hated him and we see that you know also in the other sense that he was the testable because he now became unholy he was carried on the sins of the whole world and like the scapegoat who was let off sorry into the wilderness he took on the sins of the whole world and died in our place and hence he took our place of you know in our sins and he became someone totally the testable okay so we see that he suffered outside the gate just like the animals that were sinful now they were born outside the sanitary okay so in study Christ as a sinless lamb we see how the sacrifices in the Old Testament very clearly spoke and specifically it spoke about various aspects of Christ as the lamb of God and so we see the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament where kind of pointers or spoke about the sinless lamb of God that could come and we make the most efficient perfect sacrifice again so it's important for us to know that throughout the Old Testament God was actually foreshadowing the coming of Christ so Christ the sacrifices where the foreshadowing order a type of you know the what was going to happen in the future the Christ coming and him making the sacrifice so it was in the Old Testament God was foreshadowing the coming of Christ in many different ways and one of them was through the institution of the sacrifices that were made in the temple both the morning and evening sacrifice the Passover sacrifice the sacrifice of the day of the tournament and also the sacrifice for the priests who made it for him and for those who claim individually for their trespass offering also and work as their sin so we see that Jesus you know God used all of these sacrifices as a foreshadow of what was coming of what Christ would fulfill in his work when he came to be or that he died on the cross again so any questions thus far I hope you're able to hear me clearly and understand clearly is my audio clear or still unclear ma'am your audio understanding everything okay anyone else has any any questions so far I hope the rest of you are in you know it's logged in but I hope you're in class listening because I hardly hear any of the voices or no questions as well if you're going to make the class more interactive and engaging rather than just hearing my voice which kind of becomes kind of boring with the two hour class listening to the same person's voice and I also would like to listen to some of your voices some of your questions or doubts okay before we end class there are no questions so we can look at the lamb that is mentioned in Revelation okay in Revelation chapter 5 or 6 Revelation chapter 14 and 17 now we're going to look at the Lamb of God in the book of Revelation and of course this is kind of a little deviating from you know our whole lesson plan or the curriculum because we're talking about Christ his personal work in regard to this incarnation and so we saw the sinless Lamb of God in regard to his incarnation as well but here when we're looking at you know Jesus as the Lamb of God in the book of Revelation it's not dealing with the subject of Christ as the incarnate son of God because here we see that he's already you know ascended back into heaven see through the right hand of God but just for us to have a better understanding of Christ as the Lamb of God we will look at his work also as a Lamb of God as mentioned in Revelation okay the 29, 28 references of Jesus as the Lamb of God in the book of Revelation we're just going to look at a couple of them here in these chapters okay so it would be good for us to read it so those of us who are struggling to find the references I'll just put this up on the screen so that we can read okay can one of you read Revelation chapter 5 was 11 to 13 please it's on the screen there Revelation 5 11 to 13 then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne the living creatures and the elders and the number of there was 10,000 times 10,000 and thousands of thousands same with a loud voice wordy is the Lamb who was lame to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing and every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea and all that are in them I heard saying blessing and honor and glory and power be to him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever thank you see the story someone else can read Revelation 6 15 and 17 it's on the screen revelations chapter 6 verses 15 and 17 and the kings of the earth the great men the rich men the commanders the mighty men every slave every free men hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountain and said to the mountains and rocks fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the work of the lamb for the great day of his work has come who is able to stand thank you revelation chapter 14 verses 1 9 and 10 it's also on your screen revelations chapter 14 verses 1 then I looked and behold a lamb standing on Mount Zion and with him 100 140,000 and 40000 having his father's name written on their forehead 9 then a third angel followed him saying with a loud voice if anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand he himself shall also drink of the wine of the worth of God which is poured out full strength into the cup of his indigation he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb thank you so the last scripture passage is Revelation chapter 17 verses 12 to 14 in one clearly practice Revelation chapter 17 verses 12 to 14 Revelation 17 chapter 14 the ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdoms as yet but they receive authority for one hour as kings eat the beast these are of one mind and they will give their power and authority to the beast this will make war with the lamb and the lamb will overcome them for he is lord of lords and king of kings and those who are with him are called chosen and faithful thank you both of you for leading your scripture passages so here we see that the apocalyptic view of the lamb when what's the meaning of the word apocalyptic apocalyptic basically means describing or prophesying the complete destruction of the word so when we look at Jesus as the apocalyptic view of the lamb or we look at the apocalyptic view of the lamb we see that Jesus here in his fast is no longer pictured as someone who's submissive passive and as somebody who's you know there to suffer for the sins of the world or he's not seen or pictured as a passive submissive and suffering or sacrifice okay instead or you know recognize he is or seen as one who was you know as a triumphant victorious and overcoming conqueror again being as the apocalyptic view of the lamb we see Jesus presented or we see his picture as one who's triumphant who is victorious and who is the overcoming conqueror or not as somebody who is the passive submissive and suffering or sacrifice not as and we also recognize him as the one who was seen okay so it's interesting to note that the figure of the lamb is used in a Jewish apocalyptic literature basically you know we see this in the books of perpetual books of Joel and Zachariah and a few passages in Isaiah from chapters 24 to 27 and chapter 33 we also look at it in the book of Daniel and other apocalyptic Jewish apocalyptic literature like the secrets of Enoch and you know the apocalypse of Esra and John and so all of these are not part of the of course Joel and Zachariah and Daniel are there in the Bible but the other non canonical books are not included in the Bible but they have certain apocalyptic literature and also talk about you know the view Jesus as the lamb or the apocalyptic way okay so we see that you know he's seen in the Jewish apocalyptic literature of Jesus is seen as someone or the one who is going to bring about change we see that he's someone he's looked at someone who becomes and delivers the people of God okay so this is what is seen or pictured by the Jewish apocalyptic writers and it is in this same context that the lamb of revelation or the lamb of God in revelation is viewed okay it's also interesting to note that the Greek term used for lamb here in the book of revelation is not the same that is used in John chapter 1 verse 29 which we looked at in the beginning of this class where Jesus says we see the lamb of God it takes away the sins of the world okay so the lamb in revelation is seen as the one who has conquered everything who is victorious triumphant the lamb who is the king of kings and the lord of lords as against what we read in Isaiah where he was suffering lamb God he was revived but he did not we were criticized back he suffered quite possibly and he was that sacrificed that was made but when we look at him apocalyptic Jewish literature and we look at it look at him in in the book of revelation we see him as the king of kings a lord of lords somebody who is the triumphant of victorious and who has conquered everything so that's just mentioning who Jesus presently is now and he will come back as the triumphant king the king of kings as a lord of lords and right now also we see before the throne of God we see the lamb that was slain just reminding God the Father not that he needs to be reminded of but just a reminder for us that you know it's we are not receiving the lot of God like the Old Testament people who suffered immediately for the sins that they have done it's because of the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross and we are in that grace period but we'll come a time in the tribulation period and after that when you know there would be no longer this grace period then the sacrifice would be levered Jesus himself over being a judge and he would judge us for our sins and that time there's only the judgment that we receive okay have it all okay so that is the end of this chapter anyone has any questions yeah I will I will I will tell you about the test the first assessment in the middle bit if you don't have any questions then I'll just tell you about the test no questions for today's class chapter 8 and chapter 9 okay then if you don't have any questions I'll tell you about the first assessment that is today I'll release a paper along with the e-learning for the e-learning program that will be around five o'clock and since some of you requested three days I'll give you time to first take me three five o'clock so by Thursday evening five o'clock I will request all of you to send in your papers or you know to post back your papers and the first question is you know it's a long question we will have these two three paragraphs please don't copy exactly from the notes or don't copy from any other website or from anyone else because even though I check the answers of more than a few people I can know who's copy from whom it's happening in the past so kindly don't do that don't take it out right from the website or from your notes which is basically like to understand or know what you have understood or from what we have studied so that is question one question two and question three is basically a one liner or maximum two liner answers and then you will have again three questions which is multiple choice so for the multiple choice please read carefully and then we can take your answers okay those of you who would like to submit it in today you can do so you can model you can do so it's it's an open book which means you don't have to you know you can just go and kind of find where these answers are and then you can just write the answers but I would request all of you to please you know this is theology it's very important for our basis for our understanding and also for us to teach others the right doctrine and that was Paul's main concern if you look at Paul's all of his writings it was basically because of the false doctrines of false teaching that was there so there is a lot of that and people do not understand they have not known the full depth of the revelation of God through his incarnation through the personal work of Christ so please read so that you can preach this you can teach this and it's important for you to know so please take time I know we all run busy schedules but as it's so important for me to prepare as well and come and teach it's also important for all students to read even though it's not an exam where we all sit and remember it's an invituator but I request you to be honest enough to you know read through and then try to answer without even looking at your notes that would be good okay that's about the test any questions yes if you don't understand any question you could be a unique answer about your answers after you have written it will be simply through us and I will explain okay if there are no questions for today's class and regarding the test with any class here okay thank you all for joining class and I all the best for your test and see me for our next class soon I have a good day again thank you


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