Perfect. All right. Let's get started. So I'm a tears Louisville. I work at polar signals We do continuous profiling and with me virtually today is Nadine feeling she works at Grafana labs as a UX designer and We want to talk to you about SLO based observability for all Kubernetes cluster components today Let's see if all I actually had some learnings during making the slides, but yeah, let's get into it So this kind of what we are trying to do we have all sorts of of components in a cluster and we want to be able to measure and kind of objectify the Yeah, the the individual components availability targets So first of all we're going to talk about the fundamentals of SLOs. This is a beginner talk So I want to quickly talk about that before talking about pura a bit more and then how to create SLOs with that and Obviously look at cluster components quick demo and then what the future holds So what are SLOs? Imagine you go to the GitHub page of the project There are many requests made but let's focus on the initial request That loads the HTML and you want 99% of these requests to succeeds within five minutes So that's kind of a very Yeah, usual SLO maybe within one second might actually be what you are Even more focused on on doing but yeah, let's let's say five minutes so that's kind of an example and SLIs are the underlying oftentimes just metrics But we use these two to measure The amount of errors and successful requests and then compare those against the total amount of requests that our system gets and that Already brings us to what availability is So we kind of take the amount of successful requests and Divide them by the total amount of requests and we get something like 99.3% of requests are are successful Right, so like looking at that from from a request-based system You also have like batch systems where like the operations might be in a in a different way not request-based, but yeah Like you would also measure the successful events there against the amount of total events And then the more interesting concept on top of that with SLOs is error budget So let's dive a bit more in detail into that because I often find it's it's slightly confusing when starting out so We have always like the hundred percent and we never get to a hundred percent if you want to try to achieve a hundred percent good luck kind of impossible over weeks and and months of of time but let's say you have a 90 percent objective And the inverse is always kind of the arrow budget So you have a 10 percent arrow budget if you have 95 percent 5 percent 99 1 percent and then even if you go above that you you get like a point 1 percent arrow budget for example so only point 1 percent of requests in like a month can fail and The the interesting concept is you have these like static kind of objective and arrow budgets Metrics, but then you also measure the actual availability and we take the availability Substract the objective from that and we get with this example. We have currently five percent of our arrow budget left and we divide that by the arrow budget We actually kind of want to work with so right now five percent of five percent is a hundred percent If we have a five ninety five percent availability subtract the ninety five and then have five percent left Zero sorry zero percent left and zero out of five percent is actually zero And then more interesting if we have a ninety eight percent Availability subtract the objective. That's three percent out of five percent arrow budget We kind of work with we actually have three out of five is sixty percent arrow budget available and then if we are actually below our objectives on ninety three of The ninety five percent objective. We actually have a minus two percent Availability and Overall that makes a like a minus forty percent Available arrow budget so the arrow budget can actually go into the negative and then like if you have a ninety nine percent Objective it can actually go to minus nine thousand nine hundred percent. So keep that in mind So now I hand over to Nadine and she's going to talk a bit more about pura I'm Nadine. I'm your ex designer at Grafana Labs, and I'm also maintainer of the pura project. So what is pura? Pura is an open-source project that aims to make a solos with Prometheus manageable accessible and easy to use for everyone so in early 2021 there were no projects in the Prometheus community that were easy to use to get started with solos These tools were based on Jay Sonnet and YAML mostly So therefore it was clear that something had to be done Matthias and I are maintainers of pura and We have many Individual contributors so it has an open governance like Prometheus to ensure maintainers from different companies can Participate and influence the project. So contributions are very welcome How did we start with pura and what was our approach? What research did we do? We started with greenfield research based on interviewing the community We recruited participants via Twitter to engage with the community as early as possible The participants were mostly Software engineers and SREs from small to big companies as well as beginners and advanced users After some conversations about their experience with using solos We started testing prototypes to validate our assumption After these interviews, we found that participants had similar challenges with solos and Prometheus Even advanced users struggled to configure alerts and mix up things or Might mix up things. There were some questions and insights like what is an error budget? My team deals with alert fatigue, but it's hard and risky to get started with as a low based alerting and How do I configure a multi burn rate alerts? So based on our research, we ask ourselves for example, how might we reduce information overload and how might we show relevant and actionable data So one principle of UX here, which is called Hicks law fits in perfectly for our use case Which simply underlines more choices to take Increases mental overload and increase time So we aim to avoid overwhelming users to provide focus by highlighting relevant data We want to minimize choices and do the hard mark for our users As you can see on this detail page, Pyra highlights service insights and provides a very actionable content like showcasing the objective availability and remaining error budget as well at first glance Additionally, Pyra shows the red graphs request errors and duration to get insights into the current underlying state So also great news here Multi burn rate alerts are configured for you The table will show you what is firing and how critical it is Finally, Pyra also has an overview page that shows all SLOs and their current state It's possible to sort and filter these to get a better overview So now I hand over to Matthias who will tell you more about how Define how to define SLOs with Pyra and thank you and have fun at keep con All right, perfect. Thank you Nadine and actually hello. She's watching from Berlin Um, yeah, so how can you deploy pyra? You can deploy it on on kubernetes There's kind of like a controller slash operator that uses custom resource definitions that make high level SLOs available and then Create prometheus rules for the prometheus operator to then load that into into your prometheus But we also have support for docker and and kind of like just running a binary for example System d where everything is based on on disk and then prometheus will read the the files from that folder So how does it look in in kubernetes? You have the pyra api binary or container and then the pyra kubernetes Container as well and that kind of like takes whatever SLO objects you you give it reconciles that against the kubernetes api and and and creates these prometheus rules and prometheus then again, yeah reads the prometheus rules into into its configuration and pyra you can either go to pyra directly to get the ui and that will in The background query prometheus or you can always kind of like escape the ui and just like jump into prometheus from there To make it even easier to like modify the queries And yeah, like that's pretty much the deployment nothing too crazy It's it's running one container you configure it The api endpoint of prometheus and the and the back end in our case the kubernetes Controller and then the same for the kubernetes back end We say we want to run the kubernetes component and there's something called generic rules, which I can touch on a bit later But nothing too crazy here either Um, we support prometheus obviously, but it's also possible to use the panels and cortex for example They support the same query api endpoints And I was too fast we also Should be able to interface with mimir or m3 or timescale because they all have the same apis Like prometheus does So how do you create an slo? You define this like again service level objective custom resource you give it the target the time windows are over 14 days We want 99.99 succeed and you give it a metric for the errors to kind of select the time series that we would count up To get to the errors total and then also for the just total amount of requests or events that happened um, if you don't have different metrics you can actually use labor mattress to match all the um, yeah 500 uh code lgp requests A bit more interesting you can also say just for this specific handler So I guess we all have apis that are very unique and specific to what our users need So you can say just for this handle. I want that very specific slo And then we can also do something like match all the api Handler starting with a slash api And then what we actually want to do is not like Mesh them all together and and have an slo for all of them at once But we want to like have them individually. So we use grouping By handler and that's kind of like the sum by that you can write in prom qa as well So you actually get all the different Api slo's for the different api and endpoints by writing one configuration and they are tracked individually Underneath you just get recording rules Again, it's nothing that pura does is kind of like on the alerting side and and recording rule side It's all taken care of by prometheus, you know, it's reliable and robust And that was kind of the point of that So again also for the alerting you've got like the multi burn rate alerts and you get the four alerts per slo to Alert you on the different severity So two critical ones to alert you right away when you need to be woken up And two ones that just can like go in a ticket and you can look at it on monday or the next day So we're here for kubernetes. Let's finally look at kubernetes That's kind of the architecture and we have the control plane on the one hand side Monitoring on the other and in between kind of the notes means are running on the same notes But that's what the architecture kind of looked like and first of all We don't probably and that's one of the learnings I had during making this We don't want to have too many slo's some maybe I should change the title to Four kubernetes cluster components, but not all of them So make sure to have slo's for the things that you really need as your team Maybe like the underlying disc latency or something isn't too important for your team, right? But yeah, let's look at the kubelet first The kubelet is the primary note agent that runs on each note And it just makes sure that the parts that it should run are running and healthy So we can look at the metrics that the kubelet exposes And we get the runtime operation errors total and we get just the operations total And using those in the slo custom resource definition We can say 99.9 of these Operations to make sure the parts are running should succeed within two two weeks and we get our slo So one of like four million Operations error and yeah, we're doing good on the kubelet runtime part The kubelet also talks to the api server to even know what it should be running, right? So we can look at the rest client requests and say for all the 500 requests These are the errors and then for just everything else is the total amount of requests And we put them in and we say 99 of them 99 percent of them should succeed within two weeks And again, we know how good the kubelet is able to communicate with The api server and we know the kubelet is actually Knowing what what what it's supposed to be running Then another component kubet proxy and that's like one of the examples I'm not sure if you really want to put an slo on that but here we are I said on all components So the kubet proxy is just the proxy that runs on each node and configures the network So you can like reach the service back ends Through tcp and udp and we want to be able to configure that In like 512 milliseconds So we say we take the histogram of the Yeah, 512 milliseconds and compare it against the total amount of of syncs we had Put that into the configuration and we get kubet proxy sync rule latency Which is great and it seems that this this cluster I got the screenshot from is also doing quite nicely And yeah, I think that's the most important part the kubelet is api server So let's look at that in more detail six scalability actually has official slo's for The api server So that's kind of interesting and I don't know how many are using kupromethias or the kubelet is mixing May show of hands like who has seen this dashboard Okay All right quite some people. Um, so yeah that was using six scalability slo's already in the background um The one problem was that I went all bananas on this and like tried to combine like latency and errors and everything Together and it was really hard to debug For people are the latent like the rick has to slow or are the erroring etc So now I think um what I want to like do forward going forward in kubet Prometheus is actually separated by error and right and then the latency by cluster namespace and resource scope So, you know what's too slow right away And yeah kubernetes api server validates and configures the data of the api objects And has the arrest api um to to do so So the api server um has the request total metric and for read request We want to like just have the list and get uh verbs to to alert on and then again 500 status codes Compare that against the total amount Put that in the service level objective custom resource definition And here we are now we know how how well we are doing on on the api server read resources responses Um, so that's like for pods and all of these objects right how good we are in reading those and then for writing Kind of similar just post put patch and delete verbs Yeah, and compare that against the total amount of push A post put patch delete Request and we we say again two weeks 99 Percent and we get the same for write request So all the like controllers and operators talking to the api updating and reconciling The the objects are are doing quite quite well as well And then yeah latency I think we want like kubernetes to be able to reconcile quite frequently and and correctly And for that we want to have a latency as low as well. So for reading We want to have the cluster No, the resource scope metrics succeed within 100 milliseconds. So that's why the less equal 0.1 Seconds is there and we want to compare that against the total amount of of requests we had in in the histogram And if we do that it's actually outdated. So, um sick instrumentation was active in the last Like half a year and there are actually new Metrics which are just now have the slo Prefix in them and they don't Count the webhook requests into them anymore. So they're just a bit cleaned up but we can use these now and Again, put them into the custom resource definition and all of a sudden now we know Okay, so in this example right here We had like 4,000 Requests that were too slow out of like 2 million. So overall that's that's quite acceptable for for this api server as well And yeah, let's look at the demo. So I mean the same is true for right latency and and so and so forth But it kind of keeps on repeating as you can see Going into Into this cluster And actually I wanted first to mention this is a typhoon cluster running on digital ocean And with typhoon you can like Get to everything you can like look at at cd and you can control everything kind of like a kubernetes hardware So it shows that running fedora chorus on digital ocean and deploy kube prometheus on on top The pyra project, but yeah, let's let's look at this and we have like api server core dns at cd different components and and down here even like Prometheus endpoint so you even know if the if the prometheus monitoring stack is doing doing well and nicely So yeah, let's look at the resource read latency and over the last day We can see all of that is doing quite nicely We had a little spike apparently at like 10 a.m. Down here. So that was fine But yeah, we can see we're on from 60 percent error budget to 59. So whatever it shouldn't even alert and then One other thing I want to look at our core dns response latencies and I don't know who paid attention Just really quickly before starting the talk I went into the deployment and put a limit of 10 millicores in there So now we can see core dns is doing quite badly and you can see we have an incident But and that's kind of sad for the demo. It's not too bad. So usually if it was bad enough one or In some cases even all four of these multi burn rate alerts would alert you depending on the severity and how quickly So the multi burn alerts alert on how quickly the error budget is burning So if you like just burn Pretty slow over two weeks and you might like End up with like zero error budget left Then that is just a ticket and you can deal with that because it's like pretty slow but if we're going really really fast over the course of like a An hour like looking at an hour For example, then then we want to like page pretty quickly so that like somebody can can take a look and troubleshoot Yeah, I think that's it for the demo, let's continue with the slides So both pura and all these slo's I have like on my machine And I want to get that into core of kubromethias not only have that as an add-on So hopefully in the next couple of weeks or months Once you update kubromethias, you might get this out of the box And let's see how we can can work with the kubernetes mixon To to make that happen as well Um, so what's next for for for pura and all of this again I want to put this in kubromethias So you don't even need to do much to get like some something as a baseline But yeah, like version 0.5 is about to release I need to write some docs but being at kubcon. I didn't really have time for that Histograms are shown for the latency slo's now You could see that like looking at coridine as just now Autory loading the detail page so the graphs are updated and we now also have an Optional grafana dashboard with the select generic rules flag you can get that So you don't even need to get out of grafana and you can look at some some slo's in grafana directly Not all features are supported, but I think it's good enough for a start And we also and that was kind of interesting Some companies were running this and the underlying metrics were gone So the slo's were gone and all of us hadn't they were thinking yeah, everything is fine But no actually they they didn't really have the metrics to even do a do alerting anymore And somebody contributed an open shift example So if you're running an open shift, you might want to check that out For the people who kind of like Really paid attention. We want to make it easy, but I actually only talked about yammel, right? And that is something that I'm like for the next release working on also on my machine and on a branch on on github There's an interactive React based editor where you can put the label selectors in for the time series Click on preview and you get like the current state. You can see what's happening In the in in the past to inform you about like your slo on on how it's currently doing Probably you want to still do the math and not like depend fully on that as bern would would say from promitius team He's very strict about and I think it's right But just to get an understanding I think it's quite nice And then also the table with the multi burn rate alerts I think those should have should have graphs so that you know how high the burn rate is for for a firing alert Try pura. We have a demo running on demo. pura.def You don't even need to install it and if you put a slash grafana, you also can see the grafana dashboard Obviously the sre books are great. So read those and grafana big 10 podcast I was on there like beginning of the year and we discussed together with tom wilkie bern ramstein from grafana and matt ryer slo's in detail all sorts of interesting conversations happening So check that out. It's definitely not outdated And yeah, that's it. Thank you Also nadine says hi and thank you and follow us on twitter and yeah, thanks I don't know how are we doing on time? Yeah, we can do kure. Oh 10 minutes. Oh my god. I was quick. Perfect. Let's go Hey juka, thank you for the introduction to pura. That's very interesting Um, and uh, how do you envision Pyrrha being integrated into the workflow of an engineer? So do you see Me going to pura after seeing alert on slack or should I have it on a on a big screen on my on my development room? Yeah, how do I get in touch with pyrrha and where do I go from there? Right, so Like these days. I actually don't open dashboards or pura quite actively myself only if I find myself like I don't know like having deployed something where I think like the latency for example improved quite drastically and we We tend to to do that quite a lot And then and then I look at it and probably oftentimes just like an hour after that to like see like the trend on like the p99 latency And yeah, otherwise like when there's an alert, um, I don't really like have it open Much much of the time. Um, it should be just a tool in the background and get out of your way Where do you get from from from pyrrha? Like you can like always like open it like and and prometheus and like modify the the the prom kill So I don't know I can quickly show down here. We have like for example for this. Um, you click on it and it opens Yeah, I don't I haven't forwarded the prometheus container, but yeah, you get like the query in the prom kill editor Right. Perfect. Thank you. Um First of all very cool project. Um, thank you I I was wondering how would you Include this into for example a multi-stage delivery pipeline like can I react based on? What's happening happening on my slo's right? How would I interact with pyrrha to Take a decision and maybe trigger a rollback for example Yeah, I mean If if there's a bad rollout and and it's firing Or you might be curious after the deployment You already see a spike in in the latency or error but error rate Then then rollback. Um, there's no like integration for for deployments themselves I think captain is doing something along those lines So maybe check that out for like deployment specific things I can see like maybe reaching out to like not maybe but I I definitely want to reach out to agro city For example to like integrate with with them as well And yeah, that's that's kind of where it's at but pyrrha is really focused on just like the Everyday operation that like constantly running systems have and and not too much on on individual deployments themselves, right? Yeah, I'm actually familiar with captain and and they have their own way of defining slo's And this is yet another way to define slo. So it feels like everyone is Trying to reinvent the wheel here, right? Yeah, like like we like I've been also like attending the open slo Calls quite early on and I think that there are some interesting concepts But this is very pre-media specific like the grouping for example like that wasn't in in the in the open slo spec So like for now it is its own thing But yeah, we can like import open slo in the future for example I think sloth is doing that as well. So there are possibilities of integrating with the larger ecosystem always Yeah, I mean it's open source. If you want something feel free to open the poor request That is actually a bit funny because what I was going to ask was the open slo If I already have my slo is defined maybe in open slo, but I'm using you know Prometheus back now it might be actually much faster to instrument moving forward like how would I you know switch is there Can I use the same specification because I know open slo specification is Very complex for good reasons But the simplicity if this is also really nice. So what are the plans moving forward? Are you guys talking? Yeah, like like we don't we only have rolling window slo's for example Like not like beginning of the month to end of the month things like that So I think like if you want really like super like customizable things then like go with open slo on some some occasions But yeah, we are not like Or let's rephrase it. We are open to like adding things like that to pura. I just didn't get to that and There also was no one opening issues asking for it yet. So if no one is asking I'm not like inclined to just put every feature in there and like make it the big system that it Doesn't even need to be maybe so if you want anything like that, please open an issue and we can have a discussion over there It's been wanting to ask since the beginning Well, you laugh because I was going to ask about open slo so I'll ask something else instead What how do you recommend like testing? Actually writing these like if you're going to make changes and make you know modifications to your slo's Do you have any sort of workflow for? You know verifying you're getting what you want. I guess, you know, it's kind of tricky because they're slo's but just curious Yeah, I mean that's that's a good question And I think it's less of a technical question more of a cultural question I know for a fact that the implementing open slo book For example, it has an entire chapter on that Yeah, I don't really have a good answer on that. We we kind of discuss at pola signal it's like when when we We start out like with a high with a low Objective target and then we just like increase it once we like hit certain milestones for example or like a foreign new quarter We we want to change something and that's how we how we do that. But yeah, I I don't know like whatever fits your organization. I would say mostly a cultural question So the question was how do we like change the open the the slo's at pola signal We we just come together like in Engineering meetings and and then see review the slo's of the past quarter for example And then for the new quarter we we now have new slo milestones or like objectives kind of driven by what we want to build as as features kind of really Saying okay now we want to do like this experience for users and and then we kind of like defer The objectives from that and and and yeah, then it might be it might be looking pretty crazy Right now like for q4. We have a have an slo that like it's pretty challenging But I think that that's also good and and we can we can try to make like the user experience work that we want Have envisioned And yeah as engineers. We are kind of like paid to to try to get there, right? So yeah Yeah Two questions. Um, just first one's easy. Will your presentation be available on? schedule or The the if the sites are going to be available there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to upload it there And I think also on speaker hub where you can like find it and If the recording is out, I actually put the the video link it from the read me on the pyro project We have like a lightning talk from from Prometheus stay there as well Thank you, and then I mean this is a loaded question But how do you get that? You know you mentioned culture change and you know, we have all we're collecting all these metrics and everything like that How do you start the discussion with slo's? Do you have some kind of? Best practices to kind of get the conversation going Right. So so is it is it like on collecting them the underlying slo's and metrics or is it like how do you like come up with slo's here? Yeah, the slo's. Yeah, okay Yeah, I mean like again like we we kind of have like g rpc servers or http servers and and we instrument them with client go for example or like the go g rpc Prometheus project and we kind of get metrics out of that for free but And and then it's really easy to just slap a nestle on that But I think what we actually want to do is kind of really sit down and think what is this service doing right like what is Like the underlying intention Of that service. Well, like how how do we define? If it's doing well and good and and then take it from there and maybe like oftentimes we don't even Have the metrics available yet. So we just have this right now as well where we like for q4 We need to like first of all put like the proper metrics in in place to to start measuring the the the service level objectives Yeah, so we have time for one more and then we can go to that way If somebody wanted to contribute to the project, do you guys have like weekly meetings and then maybe what areas Do you need the most help with right now? Right, uh, we don't really have meetings because it's just the two of us and then random people showing up in And issues and poor requests But if you want to like have a meeting at some point feel free to reach out But yeah, like I think like the the github Project has like a project board for version five most of the things I've done now Or zero five because I'm about to release it But I I'll try to like put in more features that for for the next version We want to hit and then yeah open issues. Let's discuss like asynchronously on on there So, uh, yeah, everybody can participate and follow follow the conversation as well You're welcome All right, that's it. Thank you everybody for showing up again. Yeah, great pleasure and see you next kubcon. Hopefully


Organa Men's Multivitamin Plus NAC Re-Review. Here's what guys, this is Josh here. So they want to do a little re-review on Organa, which is vintage muscles, scoopable multivitamin that's very basic, but also contains NAC. Now, when I first reviewed this compound, I wasn't too impressed by it because it was like $50 and you only get like 45 servings. And although most of the time, you know, vintage muscle has anywhere from 20 to 30 servings, it just wasn't that impressive for a basic multivitamin, which only has a gram of NAC in it to justify that price. But since then they have dropped it to $27, which is much, much, much more affordable. And I think it goes down to about $20 if you use my discount code of Real Josh TV. I think that powdered multivitamins and liquid multivitamins digest a little bit better than the capsule versions or the tablet versions from my personal experience. And the main thing here is this NAC, which is an absolute powerhouse that people take on their own. It's very good for a lung health. It's very, very good for the liver. If you get anything that's, it's kind of like on-cycle help for steroids. Pretty much everything features NAC or NAC plus milk thistle, but actually really like NAC quite a bit more. The main reason for my re-review is because it just dropped so much in price and it's just so much more affordable. I think like with my discount code, if it was $50, I'd probably drop it down to like 38. So, you know, it's about a dollar serving now. I think it's less than 50 cents of serving if you use my discount code of Real Josh TV. NAC is just an absolute powerhouse. It's supposed to have a lot of brain health benefits, not just the liver, not just the lungs. And also if you overdose on a synaminophen, which is like Advil or Tylenol, in the hospital they give you NAC and basically you can't patent something natural. So, the fact that they're gonna use that to help you in the hospital, it just seems very, very good. This is just a highly recommended product from me now, especially because it dropped so much in price. I think it's like less than $20. So, less than 50 cents of serving, quality multivitamins, something really, really good for your liver. Yeah, it's just a fantastic supplement. So, I kind of just wanted to share my updated thoughts. I liked it before, but just that price, it kind of stopped me from recommending it, but now it's fantastic. If you're a vintage muscle fan and you're looking for a multivitamin, this one is something I highly recommend. And if you have any sort of lung health issues or liver issues, I highly recommend this one as well. So, anyways guys, what kind of multivitamins are you taking? Do you take multivitamins? Do you not take multivitamins? Do you take NAC? If you not take an NAC, I'll be very interested to see down below. We're on the road to 50,000 subscribers and I couldn't do without any of you guys. So, I hope you guys are the best. Having the great day out here. Hopefully, I'm a great day at home. See you all in the next video. Peace.


I'm here at the WISIS 2012 forum with someone who should need no introduction. It's Gina Davis, Academy Award-winning actor, star of films such as Selma and Louise, The Long Kiss Good Night, A League of Their Own and Accidental Tourist, and recently founder of the Gina Davis Institute on Gender in Media. Gina, thank you very much for being with us. Gina, you're very proactive in campaigning for different stereotypes for girls and women in media. How would you characterize the situation today? And what would you like to see change in an ideal world? Well, I've made quite a study of gender depictions in media. My institute has actually done the largest amount of research ever sponsored in this area, covering a 20-year span. So the ratio of male to female characters has been the same since 1946. So we're not gradually getting to equity. There are far fewer female characters than male characters. And the female characters that are depicted are very, very narrowly stereotyped and very often hypersexualized, even in movies and shows that are made for very little kids. So my theory is that we're training generation after generation to see women as not taking up half the space in the world and not being as important as men and boys because they're not seeing them actively involved in life and taking the space that's rightfully theirs. So now that we have this data, it's a very valuable tool because we're able to go directly to the creators of kids' media, you know, because I'm in the industry, whatever, and work as colleagues to encourage them to add more female characters and stretch the ideas of what they can be. And they've been very responsive, I have to say. I think we really are going to see a change within the next several years. How do you think we develop authentic and compelling role models that inspire girls? And isn't there a risk that characters developed deliberately to offer a better gender image where it would be popular because they're perceived as artificial? Well, that's a very good question because I don't ever use the word role models when I'm talking about characters. I've played characters myself that women have found compelling but who are not role models necessarily. I think the thing to do is create genuine characters who are different and unique and have flaws and, you know, like male characters are, you know. And I think, partly because most writers are male and most directors and most producers, there's a fear of creating female characters. That's a little bit what you're talking about. Well, we have to be careful. We can't make her to this or to that. And I would like them to just throw away that idea. Let's say write the characters all as male and they just change the names because there's no special gimmick to creating female characters. If there's characters who are doing active things and are in charge of their own fate, that's a role model. And why do you think there's such resistance to strong roles of women in Hollywood? I think it all stems from this belief in Hollywood that's seen as gospel, that women will watch men but men won't watch women. And everything in Hollywood is run based on this, including children. Girls will watch boys but boys won't watch girls. This theory is not in any way been proven. But still it very much impacts all the decisions that are made. So every time there's a movie starring women that's a big success, Stirling Louise was one. The media all says, oh, now everything's changed. Now we're going to see so many movies starring women and nothing changes. And it happens year after year. There'll be one maybe every year or every two years. That's a huge success and it's starring women and about women. But the decision makers in Hollywood still say, yeah, but I don't trust it. I think it's maybe just a one off. So we never get any momentum going, which is why we're sort of stuck in the same pattern. You've recently accepted to become ITU's special envoy on women and girls in ICT. How do you feel about that? And what do you think it'll involve? I'm thrilled with this new position and I'm so appreciative of this opportunity. And I'm such a fan of ITU and what they do. I mean, it's an incredible organization that wields a lot of clout globally. So it's very significant to me to be able to take some of the work I do in a much bigger scale globally. I think it's incredibly important to get more women and girls into IT. And a big factor in helping this happen is going to be ITU's work. Gina Davis, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.


We have received many questions for this event this evening and we have reached out to those of you whose questions were pertinent to the topic and we'll be inviting you to raise the question during the question and answer session. Now, if time permits, we would invite comments and questions from those of you who might not have the opportunity to send us through your questions. I would now like to invite the High Commissioner to make his opening remarks to frame tonight's conversation. Over to you High Commissioner. Good evening to everybody, particularly Lisa and Sahail. As the year is coming to an end, I know it's got a couple weeks to go but we're getting there. I just want to thank you all for making time to connect to us through this series and I look forward to staying in touch with you virtually next year but hopefully as vaccines start to arrive, we may even run into each other. Like so many other things we took for granted, Cricket was one of those things that came to a standstill at the outset of this wonderful year. Cricket and Sport more generally of course is closely associated with a sense of community of coming together to enjoy a game away from the rigors of modern life. At a time in COVID when we could have done with that, of course the pitchers were empty, the balls were grounded and the bats were silent. However, I'm pleased to see that the game of cricket appears to have adapted to the new environment as we all have and is helping provide much needed respite and entertainment after what's been a challenging year. And of course it started with the great effort of the Indian Premier League, which had record television digital viewership, despite the restrictive arrangements on attendances away from home in the UAE. Despite all of those obstacles, it entertained us as ever as we watched some great batsmanship, we watched some great bowling and regrettably we saw Mumbai win again and he says that as a Delhi capital supporter. And I really did enjoy Shreya's eyes captaincy this year but I'm certain we'll get Mumbai next year. It's been remarkable to witness the IPL's successful transformation as it had to implement complex protocols and logistics to secure that COVID free bubble for its players and its teams. And as I was saying earlier, it's something that other sports in Australia model themselves on during our rugby league and our Aussie rule seas. This has allowed IPL to bounce back and kept us all engaged in the action despite being from home. So I can confess I haven't seen any of the first day of the Australian Indian Test Hats today at the Adelaide Oval. But I'm sure you'd agree it was great to see the start of what is going to be an excellent series. The fact that it's happening, the fact that we can watch it on TV here in India, the fact that 21,000 spectators can be back in the stands in Adelaide, even though its half capacity is tremendous and from all accounts the quality of cricket being played between Australia and India over the past several weeks has been outstanding and it should be a great series. My family and friends back home tell me of the relief of being able to watch cricket this summer because in Australia summer without cricket is somehow just not right. It's like bollocks without SRK or da or that roti. But I'm glad to see players on the pitch stand and I now I respect the cricketing bodies, the BCCI and I'm catching up with Mr Gangirli on Saturday and Cricket Australia will be doing all they can to make sure these series continue. So the success of the ongoing Australian India tour has demonstrated how sport can help overcome adversity in this year. It's achieved it within our communities despite all the challenges we've faced individually and collectively over the past 10 months as we've adjusted to a different way of living, working, engaging and playing sport. What our two national teams and governing bodies have been able to rise to and overcome these challenges in order to bring us this great game is a triumph for our country, for our cricket code itself, for the players and for the administrators who don't always get the credit that they deserve. As the first test match between Australia and India started today at the Adelaide Oval and with the difficulties faced by our respective teams, governing bodies and fans this year has never been a more interesting time to talk cricket and that's why I'm delighted to be with you tonight with our excellent alumni, panellists Lisa and Sahail, who as you know are highly respected on this subject and know more about it than probably anyone else who's tuned in. So it's terrific to be with you tonight. Thank you again to Lisa and Sahail. Thank you for everybody who's tuned in this year and of course we all know what our wishman next year is, which is a year that's a bloody lot better than this year. Thank you very much. I can miss you now. Now I'd like to invite Lisa to discuss the current test match and some of the recent one day international matches played between Australia and India in Australia and to share his perspectives on how the game has had to adjust due to COVID over to you Lisa. Thank you. Well, obviously, unlike Barry, I did tune in for the first ball. It's always become a little bit like the Ashes rivalry where you have to see the first ball. And I was pleased from an Australian perspective. Second delivery, Australia was able to pick up and wicket Prithvi Shaw. So India won the toss and elected to bat. I can tell you at the moment it's six for 212. Rindavan Saha and Ravi Chandran Ashwin are in and it's this time of period in the pink ball test where it gets a little bit interesting for the bowlers. But one thing that we have seen when India and Australia play when it comes to cricket and it's not just the men's cricket. Cricket. It's also the women's cricket as well. There's a great relationship that is forming and it's formed probably over the last decade and especially we've seen because of the IPL. It's allowed other players to get to know the Indian plug and also get to know what Australians are like, what the banter is like, how much we actually like you if we're taking the mickey out of you. So these type of things are really evident in the current series and we saw that in the one day series where I think Aaron Finch got a little bit injured and Kail Rahul kind of went up to him and says, mate, you're fine. Carry on. That doesn't hurt. There is that great relationship, but the rivalry is fierce simply because the teams know each other so well. One thing that I've been fortunate enough to do over probably the last six years is through commentary is to spend time in India and spend a lot of time in India and obviously catch up with Sahail when we're in town together. But the one thing that stands out to me is India is such a hospitable country and for someone who loves cricket as much as I do. If you go to India and the IPL, I kind of liken it like a big country town that has a circus going on and everyone's talking about it. The difference though in India is that over a billion people are talking about this one tournament and they're living and breathing every moment and they're probably better cricket pundits than I am because they literally watch every ball. But there is certainly a lot of mutual respect there between the two countries and I think in general in 2020, especially Australia has done it pretty tough in the sense that we had the bushfires to start with and then obviously the pandemic. One thing that has brought everyone together is sport and the pleasing test series over in England was the one that first started, but everyone was hanging out for the IPL and we were able to witness some great cricket and no doubt this test series that has just started is going to be just as good. Thanks for that, Lisa. I think it's from what you just said it's better stated that Australia and India are great mates to probably better rivals. Now moving to our next expert, Sahel. Sahel, tell us where you see the IPL headings here. Well, coming to the end of the year, so maybe this year or next. And what are your thoughts on India's performance in Australia over the recent weeks as well? Yeah, thanks guys. Lisa, great to see you digitally as always. It would be great to catch up actually again, but yeah, the way things have fanned out, it's been a strange one, but hopefully soon as well. Yeah, just coming to guess the IPL first. Look, I think it brings a lot of perspective in, like I said, I think that's sort of been my word of 2020. For me, the experience was very different, very unique, very rewarding, but at the same time, very challenging. During the IPL. Sorry, can you hear me guys? Yes, yes, we can hear you. Sorry, I think my thoughts just went dead. Sorry. Yeah, like I'm saying, I think for us, it was a bit of a challenge initially because we lost Dino pretty early on in the IPL. And in a way, it was a unique, very difficult challenge for a lot of us that knew him well. But at the same time, I think it brought a lot of us together as well. It sort of brought that intense environment even closer. And so for me, the IPL, apart from what was happening on the field, which was incredible, because I think in an increasingly polarized and divided world today, we need hope and change. And sport is always that powerful tool that helps us connect with one another beyond those existing boundaries. You know, it looks at what unites us before what separates us. It rekindles positivity. And we saw all of that through the IPL. We saw incredible numbers. It was very rewarding in that sense. But it was so different, right? Seeing the IPL, as Lisa said, normally it's like this 1.2 billion person circus, the largest circus in the world, clearly. That is just an unbelievable echo of sound, right? I remember being at the 2019 final doing an interview with Sachin just before the toss. And I'm not even kidding. I have goosebumps talking about it because the whole stadium was reverberating, right? And that's sort of what we're used to. So to not have that was obviously a very different experience. But at the same time to still have pulled off an IPL testament to everyone that worked on it, the players, all the broadcast staff, the network. We had 420 people locked up in a biosecure hotel for two and a half months. We were away from our families and friends and that was sort of the way it went. And given that the IPL coming up is three months away, I don't see it changing. I just think there's no real vaccine in sight. And even if there is, there's issues with it at the moment. And by the time it reaches us, because we're not the ones that really need it at this point, I don't think we should be receiving it anytime soon. So I do think the next IPL is going to be similar. And it's the way of the world. I think this is the new normal. I get used to it and just got to see the positives of what they are. It's very easy to look at the negatives. But I think the values of mateship, of hard work, of excellence, of sportsman spirit that are shared across various sports, all of that's coming through still. And I think that goes beyond borders. It goes and chance and racial and cultural differences. And I think that's what's important. We're seeing that in a series like India Australia as well. I think the spirit in which it's being made, as Lisa mentioned as well, it's very special to say. And I think that's going to continue into the near future and beyond. I think it's a very special rivalry that's built up. I totally agree with Lisa. I see India and Australia being, and I wrote an article about it recently, being the new India Pakistan or the new ashes. It's as big and it's as competitive. Thank you for that, Sahel. I guess hearing from you both reinforces the message that despite the challenges we've had to face this year and obviously mentioned this as well. Sports, one of those things that brings people together and cricket in particular. It's given us the ability to be able to get through what's been quite a difficult period. So thank you to the IPL, thank you to the players and to everyone else because you're keeping the fans happy. Before I draw the audience into this discussion, Lisa Sahel, I was wondering if there are any other comments or points that you might like to make or respond to, which came to mind as you listen to one another just now. And I would in particular welcome any thoughts you might have on how Australia and India are seeking to revive cricket at the lower levels as well. Obviously, the big leagues, the IPL and the One Day International series up and running. But cricket at the lower levels in community groups as well. Obviously, you know, difficult to get back up and playing on the fields again. So I'd be very interested in hearing from you both on those two aspects. Thank you. Yeah, I might kick it off. You know, we talk about the fact that, you know, this wonderful series that we're about to see and the test match between the Australian men's and the Indian men's side. The unfortunate part really is that the Indian women haven't had an opportunity to really play the last time they played as a team for their country and represent their country. It was that T20 World Cup final. And how can we forget it? The MCG in front of 86,000. That was my point. And we're already in December and there is, there doesn't seem to be a schedule yet where the women have been put down to play a series against someone. They had a couple of games in the women's IPL exhibition matches, which was really important. But I know, and speaking to a number of players and Sahel can back me up as well, domestic cricket for both men and women. There is so many states that are playing. How do you get them into a bio bubble? I guess the main thing is, and I probably, you know, reaching out to administrators or people that are listening with some influences. I know that there are a lot of difficulties in India, but you've got to somehow find a way. We find a way for the elite, the top, because that's where the money is. But the biggest growth area in the game is women's cricket. And unfortunately, that's kind of taken a bit of a hit. So ideally, you know, I understand the difficulties that national boards are having, but I'm sure there is a way that we can make it work. Because certainly you don't want India to be left behind from a women's cricket point of view. And all of those domestic players that are just sitting there on contracts training, but training for what? And as an athlete, you're always striving towards something. And when you don't have that goal to achieve or something to look forward to, it's very hard to keep focused on that purpose. Yeah, I think I totally agree with what Lisa said. And I think I'll take it beyond cricket as well. I mean, firstly, just starting with India. It's hard to assume that we're past the difficulties of the COVID-19 era just yet. I mean, you look back at the England South Africa series recently and they had to cancel recent games because of a breach of protocol and it put the safety of players at risk. But I think coming to Lisa's point, we see, as Lisa said, the elite level not affected as much. And we're seeing it affected, but not as much because the money is there, as Lisa said. But when you look at the women's game, when you look at junior cricket, you look at domestic cricket and club cricket, the trouble is that there has to be money for even clubs to survive. And we're talking about survival, simple survival of younger clubs, people's livelihoods. And I'm talking about groundsmen of staff, I mean, my local club here, the cricket club of India in Bombay, we're paying for the groundsmen and we're all chipping in because the club has refused to do so in some senses. There's other places that are doing the same. So again, I agree with Lisa where I think the government needs to step in, subsidize certain things. There has to be protocols that come into place to allow for fresh players as well as we're doing with top elite gyms across cities in India today where we've got little signs that go on and say sanitize, unsanitize. I think if we want to, we can take these steps and measures to do the same for dressing rooms and for cricket grounds that are available to play because I'm not talking about just cricket here. I've been talking to a lot of Olympic athletes, we've got the Olympics around the corner if it does happen. And we've got Olympic athletes like shutters and table tennis players and many others. I was talking to a table tennis player the other day who's one of India's most seasoned campaigners who's only been running up and down the staircase and doing indoor activities. He's got a little machine set up, but again, this is just putting him three steps behind when other athletes around the world are moving forward even at these times because they're opening up quicker. So I do think that while we're in this race against COVID, we're also in a race against anxiety, against depression, against performance and performance anxiety and lives. You have to understand sport is a career, sport is a life for a lot of us and I think we have to get it back and running in some way or form and I think it starts at that grass root and club level because if you nip it in the bud there you're not going to see the next generation of sportsmen. They're going to be sitting on their games playing e-sports and they'll be in the next Olympics as e-sports gamers because that is seeing a massive boom. But I think the real charm for purists like me and I think Lisa as well is to see the battle of sport on a field. Thank you for that, Sahil. Maybe my commissioner, you and I can start practicing our sports skills so maybe we can make it to the Olympics. When I was a trustee of the city curriculum we actually sponsored. I think we owned a e-sport team and part of that of course as both of you would understand is that stadiums are only used for certain numbers of times during the year and yet you look at these big e-sport competitions and they fill stadiums to watch people playing computer games. Some of my age doesn't get that but people that run stadiums do. Anyway, we're not here to talk e-sports. Look, thank you, Sahil. Thank you Lisa for those additional thoughts. I'd like to open the floor now to our audience and I understand that we have a couple of questions from members of the audience here. I believe the first question we have is, and look, I do apologise. You're really going to have to forgive me. So calm. We have so calm on the line. No. So ask the question. Okay. Well, this question came from Sukam Manil Kamar and it was a question for you High Commissioner. The question is, any initiatives by the Australian alumni to strengthen sporting ties between India and Australia? And we might have Disha on the line as well who might have something to say in response to this question. Hello. Disha there, yes. Hi Disha. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Well, thank you. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak. Thank you very. And yeah, the question I think was what is the Australian alumni network doing and the association doing. And I think this is where I step in and say, yeah, we've been seed funded. They've seed funded sports scene, which is a platform. So we're bringing in technology to help sport in India. Like Suhail and Lisa just pointed out there's a lot to do in the women's space as far as sport is concerned. There's generally a lot to do in the sport arena in India and things that need to be planned. And technology is doing a lot of things in this space. So the triple AI has seed funded sports team, which is a technology platform that will allow for aspiring athletes and sports enthusiasts as well as amateur athletes from anywhere around the country to be able to find game time as well as earn that little bit of money that Suhail was just talking about saying, you know, these are career that people are then going to go make out of themselves. And that is what sports is going to do. It's going to allow for people to find game time as well as earn money while they're doing it as well as provide sort of an ecosystem where we can bring in elements of training and nutrition sciences, you know, supported by various universities from across Australia. And yes, a big stride. The product is currently under development and we're hoping to be out in the market before mid next year. And we're looking at Uttar Pradesh, which is one of the most densely populated states to see the first launch of the product. Very excited. And yeah, thank you again all of you for helping this actually even happen. And just as a general comment, Christian, the fact that this year we've learned how to use this type of technology which has been around for a while means that the capacity for us to connect between different sports in Australia and India and assist in a variety of ways. You know, simple things like how do you run a membership list or more complex things is, you know, the coaching side of it. You know, people have been continuing and learning yoga virtually this year. I reckon if you can learn yoga virtually, you can just better learn any sport. Lisa has been coaching online as well, which has been great to see. So yeah, the new normal is taking in different shapes and forms, I think, which is great to see. I'm still due a lesson, Lisa. You are due. You'll be pleased to know actually Sahail, I've been playing a bit of golf, so... Oh, good. Good, we're on soon. Yeah. Our second question is from Victor Tarapor. Victor, do we have you on the line? Victor was on the line. Yep. Hi, guys. Hi, Victor. Good, good. Oh, sorry, do you want me to ask something? Yes, yes. Sorry, sorry about that. So firstly, thank you for giving us some time from your busy schedules to be with us. I've just got two part. The first is when you see the sports landscape return to a state of normalcy or semi normalcy, not just in Australia but in India as well. And the second one is more of a personal one for me. What future opportunities do you see for analytical sports broadcasters in Australia? Currently, I'm working as part of the broadcast network for the IPL, but I'm just looking at other perspectives as well. Thank you. Do you want to go first, Lisa? You can go first. I always go first. So just addressing the first part of the question, because I think the second part's more tuned to you, Lisa, in terms of sort of seen in Australia at the moment. But Victor, coming to your first question, I think it's going to take a little bit of time, but I think it's down to each board and each sport individually. I think cricket and the IPL has taken a big step forward. I know motorsport in India has taken a step forward in terms of adapting to protocols and putting strict things into place. And there's more events starting up. Table tennis hasn't, badminton hasn't. Obviously, contact sports I think is going to be a bit of an issue as well. I mean, Kabadi, I know the league has been pushed back and cancelled this year, which is a big loss to a lot of the players, and their livelihood has been shifted forward. Boxing is the other big issue. And I think the trouble is a lot of the boards are fighting within themselves. And I think that's been the big, big problem for a lot of these sports. But from a normalcy perspective, I don't see why there has to be any more time beyond, say, another few weeks from now or even now, because we've seen it working. If you can pull off the IPL where you've got eight teams, you've got thousands of people involved and pull it off successfully with very, very minor hiccups. And Victor, you were part of the bubble with me at Star and we had 450 people at one hotel, no hiccups whatsoever. We got through multiple challenges and got it done. And I think that's a blueprint. But I think for sports to want to do it and governments that want to do it, and I mean state governments, I don't mean central governments. State governments need to say, hang on, we want sport to return and set a benchmark. Because I think governments like Orissa are moving forward in sport, Haryana, for instance, as well. And I just think each state needs to take that responsibility and do it for a sense of pride. And I think Australia seems to have that in some sense as well, where sport needs to become part of the social fabric. When I spent five years there, I understood that. There were people who would go to work riding a bike in a suit and wear A6 at the bottom. It's just part of the fabric. And I think that needs to come in to India to understand the pride that sport carries for the elite level all the way down to the junior level. And I think that's when we'll see it resumed and all will see. So sadly, I don't think there's a number as to when it will resume. And I think it's sport led. But I don't think we're far from it in terms of opening up at least. Yeah, just to add to that, especially in Australia, and Barry can probably attest to this, the states and the state premiers, boy, they love it when, you know, New South Wales beats Queensland. And we saw Queensland government allow the AFL Grand Final for the first time to be played outside of Melbourne. And that was a big thing. So I think it's really important for states within India and potentially states that have the pandemic a little bit more under control, they can own a sport. I mean, the main thing is broadcast rights, just getting it on TV and getting it into a safe bio bubble so that it can continue to go on, which is what the IPL was able to show. So it has been done. It can be done. I guess the real question hasn't been done in India as yet. And I guess that's the main question, isn't it? So Hal, you're mute. Can't hear you. This is great. As a good presenter, you can't hear him. You're fine now. Oh, you're going. Excuse the Hal. I think Mumbai's gone offline, have I? We can still see you though. Actually, but I'll answer Victor's second question while Sir Hal figures that one out. And when you said Victor, an analytical broadcaster, what did you mean from a stats point of view or a pure broadcaster? A mix of the two, but leaning more towards a stats side. So we have folks like myself in the broadcast room where we feed numbers on air and we're just thinking about what the opportunities might be in Australia. There's heaps of opportunities. A run actually from India normally comes out to look after the Channel 7 coverage for all of the test matches and the big bash. And we're actually looking for more and more stats people.  But more, it's about remember match two back in IPL to the match when Rohit Sharma did this and you've got to find it for us. Because as commentators and Sir Hal will attest to this, you guys actually make us look really good, really smart that we remember everything. But really we've got an idea of something and you guys are feeding it to us and you're listening to what we say. So I think you guys are absolute gold and I would not go into a cricket broadcast without one by my side. So certainly here in Australia, we're training a lot of people up at the moment simply because there aren't that many that understand the game or even from a T20 perspective how you break it down. And obviously now in the big bash, we've got three new rules. So how does that affect tactically? This is the stuff that you guys like. We put everything in a spreadsheet and tell us if there's a pattern or not. So yeah, there is a big interest and it happens in all of our sports. So if you've got more interest, if you've got another interest in another sport other than cricket, certainly there'd be a fair bit of work here. Just to add to what you said Lisa, I think Victor, the other side of things is the OTT side. And even new emerging platforms that are coming through. You look at Dream 11 today, Dream 11 is no longer just a fantasy game. Dream 11 has moved into streaming rights. Dream 11 has moved into their own content creation. Suddenly there's need for statsmen and for statisticians, for data side of things, for engineers within the game as well and creation of new understanding of how to read sport. You're seeing that across other sports as well. I mean, we're doing it, I've got a startup called Kabaddi Ata and we're doing it within Kabaddi. We're using AI and machine learning to try and find new ways to understand the sport of Kabaddi. But I would also say look at teams because it's another avenue where teams suddenly are splurging more money. Because there's more money coming back to teams, teams want to invest more to get more returns. They obviously see data analytics as a big part of it and therefore they see that as a return on their investment as soon as they see the success of it. So I think don't limit yourself to just broadcast networks but also look at teams around the world, not just with cricket as Lisa said, but in other sports as well and if your interests lie there, I think there's a lot of opportunities not just in the broadcast space but in sort of alternative broadcasts which is now OTT as well. Thanks Ahal, thanks Lysa and thanks Victor as well for that question. The next question comes from Pradeep Raj. Do we have Pradeep on line? We do. Pradeep? Maybe he's gone for a salad chai. Looks like you might be on mute. Pradeep. Pradeep, so I'll talk about it, but just read the question. We'll just read the question. So the question is for both panelists Ahal and Lisa. How can you support wheelchair cricket in India and Australia? I actually met a few cricketers. It was in, where was I? I was in the Mumbai Cricket Association and one of the former Indian female players came up and said, oh, we've got a few of our wheelchair cricketers. Can you come across and meet them? So I got a chance to meet them and hear their stories and the hardship that they have just to firstly get matches to raise money to play. Obviously it costs a little bit more because of the extra equipment and flights and everything else that goes with it. But I know here in Australia that we've got we've got certain programs for disabilities, blind cricket. So we're starting to see that Australian teams are forming for each disability. So it's not that far away until we kind of see more international wheelchair cricket. I think it's important and one thing I love about sport is that it is a sport for everyone and it doesn't matter what race, what religion, what disability, what gender you are. Sport can be inclusive and I'd like to think that cricket is certainly leading the way. The other thing, the other way you can try and keep promoting it is if more national teams do that then from an ICC point of view you get it into the state associations as something recognised then national board and then the ICC and all of a sudden there's a decent pathway with more fixtures. But I understand it's a hard road but it's amazing cricket to watch. I'm just going to sort of sum it up in two words. I think one, awareness and two, education. These are the two things I think that we need to bring to not just wheelchair cricket but I think a lot of sports that are left by the wayside in India but also sports that need to be a bit more inclusive. I think the stars of Indian cricket are so huge and we've got them on a pedestal and they are demigods in our country but I think it's down to awareness firstly to understand and to make people understand that there is wheelchair cricket around. I think people don't even know that it exists and then it's to educate them about the hardships as Lisa said to understand about what it takes to even play the game to understand their background their stories. Today I think it's the responsibility of the boards of private teams if the Delhi capitals for instance have a team going I think it could also be their responsibility to showcase wheelchair cricket in Delhi and even a little Instagram video or a couple of Twitter tweets on it would just suddenly lift the entire diaspora of women's wheelchair cricket in a city and I think that in turn educates Indian audiences and I think you understand the following that each of these teams have each of these cricketers have and I think this is a way to give back giving back is not just through coaching giving back is not just through talking about the sport at various stocks but it's to promote inclusivity within a sport and I think this is one of the ways that cricketers and fast cricketers can do it. Thank you Sahel. The final question this evening comes from Jatin Venish Jatin, do we have you on the line? Doesn't look like he's here. He was on, I saw Jatin on. He was? There was a Jatin there. He's gone. He might have. We weren't. Your answer. This one was for you Lisa. So I might just ask it to you now. How do we celebrate and flourish cricket in the new normal under these complex COVID protocols and these types of measures that are in place? How do we get to celebrate as communities? Yeah, I think probably the IPL kind of started it off because you weren't able to go to the ground and as Sahel was saying the crowd, the noise. I don't know what it was like back in India where the, you know, people was, well, I know the viewership numbers were massive and bigger so that everyone was glued to the TV. But I think the main thing is that the best way to celebrate it and I think the athletes do it well in the sense that it's just another game of cricket. Yes, they'd love to play with the fans there and the crowd and the atmosphere. But when it's bat versus ball and there's a contest on the line and you've got Jasput Boomerah bowling to Virat Kohli, it's game on and they celebrate it and play it the way it should be. So I think as fans we celebrate and enjoy what we're seeing which is what we've always loved to see about the game. It is the contest and whether your team wins or not. So I actually feel it hasn't changed a lot. For me, watching a game of cricket with fans there or not there, it doesn't mean any different to me or a bio-bubble or not. When I watch a game of cricket I am thoroughly engrossed in it and I would imagine close to a billion people might agree with me on that. No indeed and I think we have a question from the High Commissioner for Sahel. I've got a question for Sahel but I'd just say to Lisa that I actually think that you said this earlier and I think it's true. You didn't quite say this way. I think the Australia-India tests are bigger in Australia now than the Australia-England tests. They're more colourful. I know you've got the Barmy Army but you've got the Barmy Army. You've got those Sikhs that turn up in pink turbines. I get a greater sense of satisfaction out of the atmosphere that Australia-Indian matches in Australia and I think it's because and this is even more controversial Lisa I think the level of cricket is better between India-Australia than India-England and I think a lot of it has to do with Coley or Coley as Trump used to call it because he plays cricket like in Australia. He plays on the front foot. He's as good with the limp as he is with the bat and it's good fun. That's my commentary. I wanted to know because I always wanted to ask this how is it possible that Indians know so much cricket history? Three years ago I walked through three airports across India with Michael Kasparovitz and we'd go past these 20 year old security guards and they'd turn their head tricky nice in Kasparovitz and I said what's that about? You haven't played for centuries and he said it's the TV channels that play repeats over and over again. He said they recognize him everywhere. What is it about Indians and repeats or what is it about Indians in cricket history? Is it part of the tradition? I think it comes down to a couple of things. One unlike Australia where you've got rugby in one season you've got cricket at one point you've got soccer that goes on and you've got other sports that sort of take shape in India there's I actually mean that sadly there's just one sport really that just sort of takes dominance and now we're seeing a change slowly but it's just been cricket until this point where maybe four years ago cricket was also sort of pushed aside at some points to see Kabaddi come in and to see football come in and things like that and up until four years ago there was nothing else there was cricket cricket and more cricket all year round and that's it and so all of us would just be tuned in to watch every rerun that was on I remember growing up watching Kenya versus Zimbabwe I used to watch a random Bangladesh versus any other team. I remember my brother making fun of me because I had posters of Gramthorpe and Andy Flower on my walls and not Sachin Tendulkar. This is a sort of history that we've got growing up and to me the best India-Australia memory is going to Chepok Stadium in Chennai watching Sachin versus Born in 1998 where he scored 155. I remember being there at the stadium and I was 11 at the time so for me that sort of the memories that stem in and that sort of reverberates across India you've got throngs of people that have had the same upbringing as me which is watching sport which equals cricket and that's it for the longest time and so in the next generation I think we'll see less historians when it comes to cricket but you'll see more kids that are tuned to more than one sport which I think is a very healthy thing to have because I think we lost out on that but we've gained therefore in diving so deep and as Lisa said a lot earlier today it's why we have an armchair expert in every living room in India on the game of cricket The difference the other difference to have is that when I was 11 India was better known for hockey than cricket. That's true that is true I'm not going to ask how long long ago that was Matthew Now I think we've got just a few more minutes so if there's anyone who has a question for either of our panelists or for the High Commissioner please this is your opportunity to ask so if you could just unmute and maybe introduce yourself quickly and then ask the question It's a one-off offer It's a one-off offer otherwise you'll get back to watching the cricket I'll jump in with the question So how, please I'm just going to ask Lisa a question that's been troubling me for a while Do you think that if you have a lot of men who are really invested in women's cricket and have a keen interest that there could actually be more men and do you think the involvement doesn't necessarily have to be only women in women's cricket from a broadcast perspective from a perspective overall Hang on, sorry, what was your question if you had more men involved in women's cricket do you see that there could potentially be more men involved also in women's cricket in terms of broadcast in terms of because it seems to be at this point I speak from a personal perspective as someone who's been involved in the women's game as well that there's sort of a blockade somewhere and I know you might sort of get this there's sort of a blockade which says hang on, I don't think women's cricket is meant to be read by men where do you think that stands how do you think we can sort of overcome that a big believer that the commentary box should look very similar to what a living room should look like and that's normally men and women watching the game of cricket together so I have no issues with any males commentating the women's game Ian Bishop, Alan Wilkins Harsha Bogley Sanjay Mandraka these guys do their research if they pay the respect to do the research and learn about the women's game as we do when we have to walk into the box to cover a men's game then I have absolutely no issues whatsoever I don't think it should be women only commentating on women's cricket and men only commentating on men's cricket I just want a diverse panel and it's obviously male and females but also a broadcaster a journalist a batter, a bowler and you get a really good mix and when I left the game and went into commentary I thought I'd lost that team aspect but one thing I found and you would know Sahail is now being in the bio bubble you create your own team in a broadcast point of view and it takes in an actual on-ground game for those that don't know what you're watching to actually happen and as a commentator I'm just the face of that but if I didn't have the audio the switcher, the director the runner getting us the food then none of this happens so it is a really big team and I'm all for diversity within that team and you know Lisa just reflecting on that teams stick together, teams go through tough times and I have to say Sahail to lose a fellow commentator and go on TV the next night to remind you of it with the chair and the coach I thought was one of the bravest things I've seen anyone do because I've got no idea how you got through the commentary so congratulations that it just demonstrates what you've just said Lisa that it's a team on the field and it's a team up in the commentary box as well so just a note that Pradeep thanked us for raising his question the early question that we got from the panel so I just wanted to acknowledge that Pradeep finally I think we have a question from Yogesh Yogesh would you like to unmute yourself and you're online thank you, over to you Yogesh Yogesh the anticipation is killing me I think we might have I think he's got the circle of death there's a there's a orange exclamation mark we know it's to Lisa maybe he can type the question yeah this has not got to be the world's greatest question here we go what challenges do you forecast for BCCI to introduce women's IPL and being an entrepreneur in the field of sports what opportunities do I have to look out for well you've got a lot of opportunities to look at I'm not quite sure what you'd like to do if you want to be a principal sponsor no worries but I guess I guess the challenges and you take the pandemic out I guess the argument that I've heard from BCCI a number of times is that they're concerned about the depth now when there's 33 states playing women's cricket and they've got junior teams as well you've got enough players are they quality we don't know yet we haven't seen them but I think if you showcase a women's IPL the standard is only going to improve as we've seen in the women's big bash league which has now had its six year and the scores are going up everything's going up in the right direction you've got to start somewhere and I kind of liken it to buying a house you probably should have bought it yesterday because you're going to earn a lot more from what it's going to be like in the next week instead of trying to save money to buy it out right so I do really feel that the time is now to strike and you can do it given the fact that there's no new schedules at the moment on the Indian side that you could actually go why don't we start or finish with a women's IPL it may not be eight teams it may be six teams and it may be a little bit shortened but come out with a bang and make a statement that's what I'd love to see the BCCI do I'm just going to draw a parallel with Indian football actually Lisa because we had the ISL and I was fortunate to be a part of the first season of that we had massive names from around the world with Indian talent that was pretty ordinary let's be honest at that stage and there was the same fear lack of depth and there was a lack of depth but you look at the ISL today and six years or five years down the line it's improved we started with seven internationals and no sorry six internationals and five Indians it's then now flipped to just four internationals and seven Indians and I think it's as simple as that you saw suddenly when you've got that many international players around the level raises as with the IPL as with any other league that's going on across the world and I'm with you I think once you start that's the only way to improve the standard I really liken it to the ISL because we saw that happening and today Indian football is better off for it we're seeing a raise in standard and it's going to be the same with any sport and especially with women's cricket and it will bring eyeballs to the sport and I think that's needed Thanks both to Lisa and to Sahel look I know we are slightly over now just a minute over we did say a little bit late but we do have a quiz which covers lots of cricket questions which we'd like to put to all of our participants and I'm pleased to say that we do have prizes for the top three winners so if you think you know your cricket now is the opportunity to to demonstrate that so it's just popped up on the right hand side of the screen for me I hope it has all for you as well we might just give everyone a little bit of time to work through those questions no pressure Sahel or Lisa oh yeah okay as the experts in the room I love the first question five minutes and I should also note that you're not allowed to consult Google we will know if you've consulted Google I think we should have given them two minutes for the questions these are hard do you get points if you go really quick please give us a timeline so I'll take my time I've submitted anyway do we know how many have been submitted so once we're all submitted we're good yeah just waiting okay I'm informed that you'll get an individual response once everyone has submitted there's a lot of guesswork going on here I thought I saw you looking down Sahel are you looking at your phone it's typing a few things I don't think it'll help me because by the time I type a question out they're not the easiest question to type either there's probably two that I actually know from here there's a lot of numbers that's all I can say big numbers there's Mithal there's Bradman those are the easy ones anything with larger numbers is not going to be easy Victor should be on to this Victor will absolutely smash this one if Victor doesn't win this then there goes his chance for doing this so if people get the same score is he judged by who was in quickest is that the story what are you thinking typing this is a response unfortunately I know it's not going to be me even I'm not old enough for most of these dates the poll has ended alright so how do we find out the results the results should go to individuals can you take us through them just for the sake of I believe our back of house team will be reaching out to 295 New Zealand confused questions they haven't put up the results yet yeah generating a response well I went with Australia because I figured we're here there's a lot of Aussies here I'm guessing there's a bit of pride involved question 2 so Lisa we heard you were again the first women's quicker team was against England and who there we go it's come up for you Sahel no I just thought I knew that one I figured that was too obvious so I went for the key weeks I don't know if we're playing tricks I think they're they're not trying to stump us too much except for you know how many clubs in Australia well that's right one two here we go it's coming on the main screen we still need to know the accurate the real answer yeah so Hema that tells us how many people answered the question but what's the correct answer yeah that would be the key I like how they're pulling us each up on each question as well there's a lot of shame involved here yeah yeah yeah yeah I suspect we've used a survey a survey app not a quiz app and the survey says the good news is we can be trusted if you prefer to do this or sit here all night watching the TV we can be trusted to advise by email who has been the top of the three winners and deliver to them their visa their bottle of wine or whatever the prize is yes I think we might do that and it's not a visa we'll be in touch with anyone who's been kind enough to to bear with us through this with the results okay no we're getting in some live results here Hi Commissioner to hail and I don't to darker have been selected but have responded and had got the most correct responses so can I tell you I guessed half of mine we'll be in touch anyway we'll be in touch with everyone who's one and we'll also email out the I liked option 2 of the wine thanks as long as it's Australian wine yeah and a nice result maybe it's worth a lot it's worth a lot look thank you very much for taking the time to participate in this this event this evening I'd just like to say before we wrap up that I'm very pleased to announce that the second round of the Australian alumni grant scheme is now open we are looking for Australian alumni based in India seeking to make a difference in their professional fields of expertise within their communities or are keen to build stronger ties between India and Australia this pan India program provides up to 10 lakh seed funding to support alumni led initiatives across key sectors under this Jelly India comprehensive strategic partnership previous recipients are completing projects as diverse as cybersecurity critical technologies COVID clinical trials clean energy, agri tech, education and science will soon be releasing a series of short videos documenting the experience of these previous winners as well as helpful tips for how to apply so do follow us on social media and our website for further details we will be accepting applications until Wednesday the 10th of February 2021 that's Wednesday 10th February 2021 if you have any questions please contact your nearest Australian diplomatic mission in New Delhi Mumbai, Kolkata or Chennai now thank you very much High Commissioner and obviously as well thank you to Lisa and to Sahel for joining us this evening and for bearing with my terrible pronunciation of names, I do apologise and also our tech thank you of course as well as all of our participants who have made the time and effort to join with us here today and our partners at the Australian Alumni Association of India and its chapters across the country that keep the alumni community connected and engaged that is it from us, thank you very much and we do hope that you have a very pleasant evening and a good Christmas, a good new year and thank you again Lisa and Sahel and Lisa you will get the prize I've got no idea what the prize is but I'm just amazed literally having guessed I picked C for the last five answers thought it was easy I'm just going to say I missed one question and still was up there so I'm just going to close thank you there's always an A personally in the bunch thanks so much guys thank you see you guys, bye