Hello, and welcome to New America. I'm Heather Hurlbert, Director of our New Models of Policy Change Initiative. And on behalf of all of our team here, I'd like to welcome you to today's event celebrating the Out in National Security 2020 leadership list. At New America, our mission statement talks both about renewing the promise of America and honestly confronting places where we are failing to live up to our promise. And in 2020, asking ourselves questions and working with and spotlighting the people who are trying to change places we've fallen short in the past is a key part of that work. And so for that reason, we were delighted to partner with Out in National Security to host their second leadership list, which she'll hear more about in a moment. And this panel today, which highlights the work that my project, the New Models of Policy Change, does, looking at what is the relationship between representation, between putting more diverse people in an environment between getting more seats at the table, more voices heard, and actual policy outcomes. And the folks that we have speaking today just could not be better positioned to share all of that with us as it relates to LGBTQIA plus people in the foreign policy and national security space. I'm especially excited to bring you Luke Schlisner and Mira Patel, who are our host and moderator for the day. You can learn more about them in the Out list. Mira is an honorary this year and Luke is a co-founder and director of Out in National Security. They both have illustrious resumes in government and the private sector. Luke in the White House and Defense Department, Mira at the State Department, Facebook and Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, but a quality that they share and that is so central to what this group and these honorees are doing. And frankly, one of the things that I think is holds the most promise and excitement for the future of US foreign policy. When I asked my boss, Ann Marie Slaughter, who very much wanted to be here today, what, what, if anything, she would have said she looked back to working with Mira at the State Department and said, you know, they're an example of what one very determined person can do. The, just the scope of the work that she felt Mira you were able to accomplish at state and that to me really says something about you, but also about what Luke and his colleagues have done without and frankly what all of the honorees have done. And I think it brings up both that you're extraordinary individuals, but you know that you're extraordinary individuals with a community behind you and that's the phenomenon that we're going to talk about here for the next hour. So without any further ado, I'm delighted to turn over to Luke Schlesinger. Thanks Heather. Hi everyone I'm Luke Schlesinger I'm the president and co founder of out in national security along with Rusty Pickens who many of you will know and Sean Skelly who many of you will know. We're a little bit over two years old at this point and our organization has four key goals. You know, to promote recruit and retain LGBT QI folks in national security foreign policy defense development diplomacy all that to change law custom and policy, so that we are more welcome and included in this space to connect all the employee resource groups across that spectrum. And to do public education today touches on all four of those goals and I could not be happier or prouder to be here with all of you, and with Mira and our panelists. I'm going to pass it over to Mira now to begin our panel. Thank you so much to you both what we're here to celebrate as looking Heather mentioned the 2020 LGBTQIA out national security leadership list, and have a conversation around the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion within the national security and foreign policy enterprise, and in particular getting the chance to learn from an expert panel, who have worked on these issues particularly LGBT human rights for many years. And so I think that connection between what does it mean to be individuals operating in this space and what does it mean to be promo getting policies both at home and abroad that improve the conditions of our community and that uphold safety and security in the world is incredibly important. We're operating at a time when I think we're at a, you know, about 60 days out from the election, a real crossroads. So many of us are deeply familiar with the long history of discrimination within the national security arena from blue ticket discharges in the military to the lavender scare, and the clearing out of the state. I think it's very suspiciously gay people at the State Department limits on security clearances existed until the mid 90s when many of us were alive but maybe not thinking yet about how to get a security clearance. And I think that context is really important because right now we have been witnessing a, you know, two different paths for our country and for the president United States, the transgender service ban impacts over 15,000 personnel in the US military right now. It's the largest employer of course in the United States. And I think that that's really why this. The urgency of this moment is so critical in terms of elevating LGBTQI practitioners of experts. Not only because of the work that we're doing but I really think it's important to think about the policy harms that have occurred in the past and to be able to prepare for a more equitable future by thinking about how we can set the table for the next generation for young people who might be watching this, or who might not even think that a place like Washington DC is accessible for them and their talents which we know it is. And so on this panel we have Ryan Kaminsky who's the global public policy lead for the world benchmarking Alliance, Kerry Joe Ford Lynn, who's the director of the LGBT global human rights initiative at the Asian Foundation for Justice and Francisco Ben Cosme who's the senior policy advisor at USF for Asia and Latin America. Personally, I'm really excited to hear about your lived experience, both in and around government from the multilateral Ryan to advocating for and implementing human rights and international development assistance and Kerry Joe and Francisco. You might have seen role models you might have had as junior staffers and what your recommendations are for the future. So we'll dive in we'll do some questions amongst us and then we really want to hear from the crowd we'd love your your thoughts your questions for this expert group, and then we'll get into that discussion after this portion. I would love each one of you to share a bit of your bio and please brag, and also to be able to think through something that's been on my mind as the summer wraps up the events of the summer to me particularly around George Floyd's and the calls for racial justice racial equity have led to a lot of DC based and national security and foreign affairs based organizations including the ones on this call to call for racial justice and equity. It feels like it's an important moment for experts like you to be helping us chart that course. I am in what feels like a new terrain. So I wanted to ask you about where you have seen the greatest benefits for increased diversity, equity and inclusion. And what the greatest dangers might be of the national security space being a largely monolithic community is Susan Rice put it right white male and Yale. And the second question is what's one thing everyone gets wrong when they're talking about how to improve DNI. So let's start with Kerry Joe and we can go down the line. Thank you. Thanks for starting with me. Hi, everyone. Thank you very much. As, as Mira mentioned, I am the director of the LGBTI global human rights initiative at Australia. And I come to this work. I've been working for a long time now, spending 20 years working from community based foundations in Jamaica to now working with a US based public foundation, you know, working to support LGBTI activists globally. Over 100 countries. And the work that I do currently is to manage the USA and Swedish and Canadian funded global partnership. So, you know, when you talk about lived experience Mira, I think that, you know, coming from Jamaica and being with and in community with many of our LGBTI activists. It is a very particular time, not because these issues are new but because we're having more dialogue about these issues that the awareness has increased. The awareness has, you know, increased in general around the systemic issues that we face here in the US, but also across the world. And so it's been, it's been really, it's been a really uprooting time and a pending time for especially communities of color. One of the things that is a benefit when we have people of color when we have people who live at the intersections of identity such as sexual orientation, gender identity sex characteristics is that you benefit from a greater perspective. And, and when you have that benefit of greater perspective you are able to identify more creative solutions. I think that's what I found in my work that the most impacted communities and persons are the ones who have who have access to their own solutions, if we were only to listen. So that's one of the things and I think to your second question. Before I pass it on to Ryan or Francisco is the biggest mistake in DNA DNA is just the beginning diversity and inclusion is just the beginning. In terms of equity, we have to talk about power. We have to talk about what partnership actually means. It means authentically listening and taking those into account. It means that the work. One of the things that we have seen in the private sector public spaces is that we are looking to people of color and LGBTI people for the solutions. We don't have them, but the actual work needs to be the people who hold the power. They need to put something on the line. And there are so many ways that we can, we can hold accountability and move the needle on that. So Francisco. Thank you so much Mira and very much. You know, Terry Joe stole a lot of what I was going to say, but she did a lot better than I ever possibly could so glad she did it. She sort of mentioned my title is I'm a senior policy advisor at the open society foundation but sort of only begins to describe sort of my journey to now but I'll be brief, you know, sort of half Dominican half Ecuadorian born and raised first by single mother concern myself first generation will clear and I moved to DC right after college like maybe could, but really struggled with sort of the inequities that DC and kind of unpaid internship sort of really presents as challenges to many people from immigrant families. And so for a long time for six months to live in the back room of an office, because I didn't want to ask my mom, or nor could, could they put my mom sort of afford for me to continue living in DC, even though I had a paid internship and a wonderful national security job, it still wasn't enough to cover sort of the, the like living in DC so I would shower at the gym or go to receptions to make sure to have dinner. But I knew that, you know, my, my, my mom and the rest of my family really wanted to meet me to move back to New York, where I was originally from, but I knew I wanted a career national security. So I knew I had to sort of find my way in. And as many mentors told me, once you have that first job it'll be a lot easier. It was only until then Senator Menendez took over for the Senate Formulations Committee, being the first Hispanic chairman of the Senate Formulations Committee that he really put in emphasis to diversifying the Senate staff, particularly on foreign affairs. So he wanted to make sure that when people called into the Foreign Affairs Committee they had Spanish speakers on the other line. And so, you know, he sort of recruited Spanish speakers and I was one of the first people to make sure that my resume was in the pile that they considered. And then sort of as I sort of continued to, so I got my first job on the Senate Formulations Committee, but I continued to climb through the ranks. And something that actually I read in something of your bio or sort of your description of advice that you had from your about how to sort of use your identity in a way to lift up your community but also not simply silo yourself which I think was really important advice. One of the things that I did was in the first two months that I was there, I reached out to whoever had the diversity inclusion portfolio State Department, and I told them that this issue is really passionate to me and also to the chairman and I wanted to help them. You know, right after that meeting they were like, write a bill on it. And so we did write a bill. And how into law it's the State Department authorization FY 2013 bill and you'll notice in it has four parts that talk about diversity inclusion. A year later, I was carrying the State Department oversight portfolio and sort of using that I made sure that it wasn't simply typecast that sort of a diversity and inclusion person. I also worked on Asia policy which is where my main regional focus is now. And so I sort of use my identity to sort of lift, you know, making sure that there was, you know, inclusion issues and equity issues within the State Department, a task that still still has many chapters left to be written. But to getting to your second question about what is still missing from this larger conversation very much agree that to Kerry Joyce point about how sort of these larger structural issues are oftentimes not discussed. Oftentimes we use diversity as sort of simply shiny object to sidestep some of these more uncomfortable discussions. One of those uncomfortable discussions is that when we talk about national security diversity. We're asking many people to join the same types of agencies that have been used against them right so when we talk about don't ask don't tell lavender skin. It's the same tools of the oppressor. And we're asking people to then join and sort of be part of, but it doesn't mean it's not important.  And oftentimes we're at the table on the, which are deemed national security threats. And so that's why I think it's really important to have this conversation. That's perfect. Yeah, I think one of the things about national security agencies as we know is they tend to be far more conservative in many different ways than a lot of the domestically leading agencies and that has extended legally and otherwise culturally to to our community. And in particular repressing our community or excluding us from being considered as part of their action but also being considered as part of the work. So we want to turn it over to our last panelist Ryan for response and also a, a braggadocious introduction please Ryan. I'm just so impressed by everyone. I have to say I'm much, I'm on the right panel. So thank you very much for having me and thank you so much to New America, as well as I'm out in national security it's truly an honor to be with everyone today and also to learn a whole bunch. So thank you very much. So I'm currently the global public policy lead at the World Benchmarking Alliance. If you haven't heard of the World Benchmarking Alliance that's okay because it's only two years old. And I think it has a kind of niche mission but a very important mission which is focusing on measuring corporate progress on the sustainable development goals and making sure that we can accomplish the sustainable development goals by 2030. So this is all about limiting extreme poverty, ensuring everyone has access to health care and access to justice. Part of my job is really focusing on international forums like the United Nations like the World Bank and G seven and G 20. And, you know, what's really part of all these conversations when you're talking about sustainability and you're talking about human life is at its core, making sure you don't leave anyone behind, and making sure that no matter who you are no matter where you are, regardless of who you are or who you love, you're part of these efforts and that we recognize that the international community is really not going to get too far, unless we recognize these basic precepts. So, previous to the World Benchmarking Alliance I was at the United Nations Foundation. It's really all about bringing different sectors together. So, you know, kind of having unconventional alliances on issues and having the human rights portfolio in that role. You know, it became immediately apparent to me and I think this has been said really eloquently by the previous panelists already is the importance of bringing different unexpected and kind of unconventional audiences and sectors together to accomplish these goals and really to move the dial forward because we can't rely on a single sector anymore to get these things done. And previous to that experience.  It's not just challenges, but also progress and, you know, really just have an open forum with a bunch of very young people to talk about questions they had to try and alleviate some misperceptions, but also talk about what we could all do to make sure we're treating everyone with dignity and respect. To answer your questions I think that, you know, of course, one strength of when we get this right is when people go into organizations whether it's in foreign policy or national security, it's recognizing that this is not only their right to be included it's not only, you know, the baseline to be included, but also that their presence and their contributions are real strength and help make things work better. I really recommend Lee Badgett's new book about LGBT rights and the economic case for LGBT rights that really presents groundbreaking landscape analysis of how organizations that are LGBTI inclusive work better, they work stronger economically speaking and they're just some really fascinating insights to that. And I also think, you know, these victories I think, you know, the LGBTI community that when we approach these issues in organizations. And of course, Luke mentioned affinity groups but we also have to look at the full range of possibilities as well and full range of ways to make impact. I remember we were organizing an event at the United Nations General Assembly, and we were passing around a poster and you know we had the symbols for men and women you see you know on bathrooms everywhere with the dress and the guy who's you know not wearing a dress.  And so we ended up changing the sign and people that were walking through the UN General Assembly headquarters during the busy time during UN General Assembly were able to see that what inclusion really means that it's not just strictly that gender binary. It's also just like that rainbow crosswalk that the US mission to the UN had on the street in 2016 world leaders from around the world cross that crosswalk and saw that rainbow and we're able to see that LGBTI people deserve to be part of the conversation. And also we just see big achievements being at the UN when I first started at the UN Foundation. And this was still kind of an issue that you really couldn't talk about too openly. And it was, you know, kind of, you know, maybe an event here or there but you know over the time and through the work of hundreds of CSOs from around the world, advocates of all different backgrounds, working closely with government working with the private sector we are able to accomplish a really big achievement which was the mandate for the independent expert on sexual orientation and gender identity. So what we're going to step up on, you know, two things to be concerned about is one is, if we don't have truly intersectional inclusion, and I think Kerry Joe made this point really well, we're going to end up making the same mistakes before and worse we're not going to have data, understand what the challenges are. So, you know, of all the funding for LGBTI issues at World Bank UNDP study found only 5% goes to data and research. We need to make sure we're having genuinely disaggregated data and having a full intersectional approach and last risk is we need to make sure we're also using every toolbox, every tool in the foreign policy toolbox because if we're only looking at sanctions which it seemed was very prominent during the presidential debates. We're missing part of it we're not consulting with civil society we're not consulting with human rights defenders on the ground. So it's important we have the full scope of engagement and we're also looking to learn from people on the ground and see what works in different contexts as well. Thanks. That's great. Thank you, Ryan. So one thing I wanted to spend a little bit of time on is around this concept of rising leaders. I think this list has categorized all of us. I'm fortuitously into that category but I think we can all imagine. At least I do certainly that there's just so much work to be done. I'm not sure that I necessarily view myself that way but to a 22 year old or 23 year old we really are people that are leading lives and having impact professionally that are incredibly, I think, important in the world for for people who are just starting out on their careers and wanting to know how they can forge a similar journey. And so I was curious to I'll open up to all of you but I'll start Ryan with you. You know when we're talking about strategic human capital and in business school there's a lot of data around the importance of diversity inclusion and teams, but also having leadership directly supporting that diversity inclusion equity approach. And one challenge that I've always found is that you know there really aren't role models with similar backgrounds to look up to I mean I especially when I was younger but I still do this now and I'm just going to Susan Rice's autobiography which is why she's on my mind. You know I constantly read biographies just to try and understand and map out what are the patterns here who what organizations are people part of. Where do they publish where do they work how does political appointments work. What are the think tanks because I don't come from the world of DC I didn't grow up. I'm well connected within it and so I think I'm constantly on a learning journey. And at times I think don't fully appreciate how much I have learned in that process and so I was curious for you all, you know, as a junior professional who were your role models. Secondly, you know what advice would you have for younger LGBTQIA folks who are interested in the foreign policy and national security space who are entering it now and this incredibly fraught time so I'll start with Ryan and then Francisco carry Joe please feel free to to leap in. Yeah, it's a really important question and you know I have to say, you know, working in this space. There's a whole lot of, you know, like never before there's never been, especially in the foreign policy world there's never been more institutions there's never been more think tanks there's various different types of ways to engage via the private sector via NGOs governments were hybrid organizations so you know I have to say, you know, in my case. Mentorship was really important for me to have those opportunities, and I have to say, you know, it really was people that were willing to have that conversation have the cup of coffee, invite you into their space talk about, you know, kind of the big emerging trends in the field and, you know, really willing to have that conversation and follow up so you know in the UN. This was people in the several people from the human rights office that you know I could talk about my thoughts and they can tell me where I was right and usually where I was wrong. And you know what needed to be adjusted and ways to think about that, folks in the State Department, you know, kind of coming in, you know, some of these spaces very wide I didn't think you know we're going to do these 20 things but then kind of getting a little bit more understanding of what's going on. And, you know, during COVID I'll just say, you know I've had a little bit more opportunity to, you know, bone up on some history and learn about you know some of our, you know, real trailblazers in this space and learn a lot about how these how a lot of these professionals dealt with adversity so that's been very helpful to me as we're in this, you know, you normal we're all in but I can say, you know, networks like this are extremely helpful and certainly, you know, when I was a, you know, young professional weren't immediately present so I think that anyone on this call is actually on the right track. And I'll just conclude by saying one advantage of this kind of, you know, zoom life while living it now is it's so much easier just to, you know, chat someone in the chat box and say hi introduce yourself and say, you know, can we go do a quick, you know, meeting afterwards. We were having an event at WBA, and it was really kind of funny to see an ambassador, you know, we were had at the event from the UN was like chatting with individual participants in the chat box and just being totally candid and I think beforehand, you know, that might have been a lot a little bit more of a challenge but now it's at least in some ways a little bit easier to establish those connections so my advice would be, you know, don't solve this qualify yourself don't think that you're not good enough to reach out. That's why we're here, we're all here to support each other. So if you are in some of these meetings, you know, please reach out ask for someone's contact information and use this kind of, you know, kind of troubling unfortunate period or into your advantage to build those connections and bridges. Great, Carrie Joe or Francisco would you like to weigh in. Thanks. Um, so when I was younger. I grew up in Jamaica, there were no out. You know professionals that I could look up to and there's certainly, you know, wasn't a whole lot of information available online. The internet was relatively new, and I hope I'm not aging myself right now but it was relatively new and so you know it was, it was, I can understand how it's isolating to be in countries and spaces and communities where you don't have people as reference points for your own lived experience and your own inner world. And so, interestingly, after university, you know, many of the advocacy organizations that exist now in Jamaica are five years old. And the oldest one is J flag and a friend of mine who I went to university with he became like the head of J flag, and I was just like, that is phenomenal like, you know, with all the persecution that comes with being out and you know he had to use a pseudonym. You know, for in order to live that double life. And I thought, wow, that is like phenomenal and then when I was working with a private sector foundation.  It was unheard of, and it made me really reflect about the privilege that I held, you know, in the space that I was, you know the socio economic space, you know how I looked you know everything the job that I had, and I thought I have to use my privilege for anything. And I joined the board.  And that was, you know, a big step and that wasn't that long ago. But that's to say that there aren't that many out professionals in the Caribbean that were reference points. And so, being in the US and being in this space, and seeing, you know, and meeting so many people who have their own experiences the hearing Francisco's journey, you know, I find that to be amazing. And the fact that we have networks like this and lists like this is phenomenal, because we are able to, you know, pay it forward in a way that we really didn't have these resources when we were younger and.  And so, if there was advice, it's I think, you know, similar to what Ryan said, I, I believe your voice matters, whichever space you're in. You know, the spaces that you're in where you may have some privilege leaves it. I think you know what, when I did, when I joined this list, one of the things that I said was to stay curious. I was always curious also about my own self, and, you know, my own limits, and I was also very curious about, you know, what were my own growing limits, how uncomfortable can I be, because there are people who don't have the same privileges that I have. And, you know, we're in a time with COVID with the uprisings of protests where we have to get comfortable with discomfort.  And it's one of the things to, you know, really examine yourself. And I think that when you take care of yourself when you make choices that are right for you that in and of itself is political warfare. And this is what we need in these times. So, that's what I would say I pass it on to you, Francisco. Thank you. You know, when I think about the phrase, white male and pale, I realize that issues of LGBT, I plus are just not even included in those three explicitly, right, and it sort of speaks to the fact that when we often talk about diversity and inclusion, we often times forget about, you know, sexual orientation, we talk about, you know, we forget about what really questioning, you know, long standing issues of how we think about inclusion points to the fact that there isn't a lot of data about how LGBTI personnel exists within many of these agencies. And so I really think that that's not that visibility issue that many have touched on, and you mentioned Mira and why it's so important that the solicits exist. Because I think for the first time, a 22 year old, 23 year old, leaving college and is considering the field and sort of look at future role models. You know, I don't know about myself but certainly all of you in this panel, and many others on the list, you know, certainly people they can look up to and read about their experiences and somewhat identify themselves. And part of the reason I say that is because growing up in the field, I didn't have any roles who looked like me that I could really consider role models. I had plenty of role models, I had plenty of white, you know, cisgender males who answered me, who helped me get from point A to point B. And but it was really, you know, it was really the fact that I wasn't sure how to sort of grapple with this multiple identity intersectional way in which I was both a queer person, but also this being a first generation, and all these other reasons that I had to deal with, and how to navigate that. I didn't think about my role models. I didn't, you know, I oftentimes think about who I spoke to you when things got really tough and it was my mother, right, who traveled when she was 16 by herself and our family.  And so I think part of the problem is that oftentimes the LGBTI community does not look like, does not oftentimes emphasize that intersectional lens, does not emphasize POCs within the LGBTI community, does not emphasize trans POCs, does not emphasize all the intersectional ways in which this community has diversity, even within it. And even as a young nurse, I do not see myself within it. And I think that's part of the reason why it keeps me around is to constantly rewind in, to make sure it's intersectional, but not just on the top, but also workforce. Thank you for sharing that. And I think it's interesting to me that so many of us have worked on other corridors around foreign policy and have come back repeatedly to the LGBTQI space, whether through sort of DNI and equity lens or through a policy lens. And I do think that that internal grounding of, you know, what do you say when you're the only one in the room when you sort of are looking at movements that report to be representative of us, but that may not be fully there yet. How do we include ourselves in that conversation and elevate based on the privilege we have to elevate the movement to be more powerful. But it is hard and I want to acknowledge that because I know so many people in this audience have in our serving our government in enlisted and roles otherwise in diplomacy and development. And when I was appointed at the State Department, I was the only out woman for years in the Obama administration, right, which was a groundbreaking administration for my bias progressive perspective but it also is groundbreaking because it really had the most diverse group of political pointies we've ever seen. And I think having been had the fortune of being in at that time. You see the difference that, you know, people are person or personal or policy, right those people specifically move the ball forward in so many agencies across the federal government. Because we happen to also be the most expert at times and I think that's something that has been meaningful. But it is really exciting to be able to see this list come out every year and to be like there's more and more of us each year and I can't imagine in 10 years from now, what this room will look like but I think it's incredibly heartening. I wanted to talk a bit about, since we're almost at speaking of 10 years, the 10 year anniversary of the Obama administration's 2011 presidential memorandum on international LGBT rights which had the great fortune of working under Anne Marie and with her to develop with the White House and Secretary Clinton. And at the time, it was, you know, a sort of rag tag team of honestly young, youngish political and civil servants, both ally and LGBT, who are sort of running around at different agencies and just hoping to kind of move the ball forward to set a marker in the sand and when we were very lucky to work for allies that understood both the strategy behind it and believe that it was in the interest of the United States. So I wanted to talk a bit about two sides of where I think we are now. One is, is, you know, what are we hearing from advocates in the field around what the opportunities and most pressing challenges are, and in this year not withstanding. And how can the US better address these goals and one idea and Ryan you mentioned this and I know Kerry Joe you've done lots of thinking around it. So you know what is an LGBTI inclusive foreign policy, what does that look like. But I think it's incredibly important to start with that first question of, what do we hear from the people for whom we purport to be acting. What are we hearing from them what do we, what do they need from us if they do need anything. And so I wanted to turn it over to all three of you to step in at any point of that. And then after this question, just want to let the audience know please get ready with your questions we'd really love to have a robust and rich discussion as we often have in these settings. So who would like to start. Thanks Mira. It's a great question and I love that we are talking about what it is that our partners are experiencing. Obviously, COVID-19 has exacerbated the disparities that we knew existed before both here and abroad. You know, we have seen the rising conservatism, we have seen the rise in nationalism that has impacted, you know, LGBTI asylum seekers, you know, or immigrants. And we've seen other ring like no other time before it's it's just kind of blatant, and it was it existed before but again it's just exacerbated and out in the open. We've also seen a lot of closing spaces for civil society to speak out to act to actually be effective in their programming. But in all of this, and especially during this time, there are also opportunities, you know, there are significant opportunities for us to take collaborative approaches to examine what exactly partnership actually means, especially when we're talking about equity and diversity and inclusion what does partnership mean in the context of those things.  You know when we talk about things like research, does that mean you have to have a degree, or just a lived experience in order to verify data, for example. Those are things that I think are really the opportunities that we're faced with, in terms of how we address some of the systemic issues that have existed from time immemorial to incorporate more diverse voices to incorporate the voices of those most impacted. I think that when we think about innovation, you know the provenance of innovation has always been the people who have lacked access power, you know resources and so I think it's an opportunity for us to rethink innovation and where it comes from, and that can range from technology to policy. And I think that in terms of, you know how it is that we can be better allies how we can use our positions or place in the world. So what we what a lot of activists need what a lot of organizations need LGBT communities, apart from funding, and it's not just money, it's also multi annual and flexible funding.  You know, we can do better. And it also includes like in examining the policies that we have that actually increase barriers, and increase opportunities for discrimination there many of them. And, and it requires a re examination of all of that. And so I think, you know, we start with listening to our partners we start with actually valuing, you know, what they say, as well, and taking that and incorporating that into our programming to make it much more effective. Great Francisco Ryan, I would love to hear more from you on that LGBTI inclusive policy. And then Francisco I'm wondering if you might have suggestions in particular on one or two action steps the US government should be taking, based on carries and in your work and funding and supporting activists in the field. I think in particular if we see a change in administration, there could be a lot of opportunity, but we're also moving into a global world order that looks very different. As Kerry just said then it was 10 years ago so maybe we'll start with Ryan and then move to Francisco.   Those two things don't go together.  So I think that it's really important that this have strong policy coherence and you have, you know, different agencies, every single lever involved that's possible that can contribute to a narrative and really upload recommendations and policies from a full spectrum of experience. You know, to Francisco's point, if you're trying to have an LGBTI human rights policy and you don't have people who are speaking Spanish or who can engage people who speak Spanish or human rights defenders, you know, you're probably in, you know, at a really big shortcoming there. So there needs to be not only policy coherence but a way to make sure that all this is coming to one place and so the really full, you know, thrust of these actions can work together rather than kind of all disorganized and you know, perhaps, you know, even undercutting each other and a whole lot of ways. And I will say on a positive note, you know, with a lot of the challenges that we've seen the last few years, you know, just a couple months ago was a couple months ago. You had 10,000 people rally at the Brooklyn Museum in New York for black trans lives and it was absolutely incredible. I mean the photos, I mean, the cameras couldn't get all the people at the event it was so incredible to see that kind of pure activism. And of course everyone was socially distinct. But it was just a really, you know, powerful moment to see not only, you know, the community coming together but also, you know, breaking the silence and say more needs to be done and we're not going to shut up we're going to keep calling for these reforms and calling for these changes. And I think that another part of foreign policy as well as my last point is making sure that we're getting it right at home because you can't be making these statements abroad you can't be, you know, trying to, you know, be an actor abroad and yet doing something completely had a hypocritical and having these massive gaps and problems back at home, it really really hurts your cause so really need to focus on having a domestic strategy as well. I very much agree with what all the panelists said. The only thing I'll say and add is that it's not only about coherence but it's also about using it and leveraging it as much as possible. And what I mean by that is actually Michelle for knowing said it in a panel that New America have right before a couple. I think it was last week, where she said it's not, you know, a strength doesn't come from the sample of our power. And so it's really important that we know that we make sure that what we're preaching abroad is well very much here at home. When I was at Amnesty International and we were doing work on South Korean military LGBT issues. One of the ideas that we had strategized was connecting them with some of the people that have worked on the reveal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. It's sort of building those languages, it's sort of ways that was kind of couched under the U.S. and Korean military lines. You know, when we were working, Amnesty was one of the first organizations that really helped elevate when Brunei was imposing extra coding law. And that would impact also other issues and potentially give them a job penalty and so, you know, how we communicated that in a way that wasn't as lomaphobic and also cared about how we treat individuals of our religion here at home really mattered in terms of our messaging when it comes to, you know, that specific set of issues in Brunei and how it was received. You know, I think unfortunately, if it's not, if the U.S. isn't putting this at the top of the agenda, then other donors will also withdraw with respect to civil society and social support. But I also, to encourage you to respond about, you know, making sure that we're not just providing civil society with civil support but elevating that to the right and also making sure it doesn't continue to be tied to certain metrics that are making sure that we have a coordinator on other issues that can really look at the issues strategically, making sure that we have that as a support agency, so that it has support from the White House as well, and making sure that we're practicing those issues at home. So probably both of them. Wonderful. Thank you. And we'll turn it over to a Q&A momentarily. Just want to remind folks if you have questions to please put them into the chat. So right now we have one from Leon Ratz, who thanked us for organizing the panel. And one question that Leon gets from early career folks who are interested in U.S. government jobs within the national security space is whether you can be LGBT plus and get a security clearance. And as many of us have talked about, there's a stigma associated with being LGBTQ in certain corners of the foreign policy and national security establishment. And, you know, this list in particular as Leon makes the great point is a phenomenal way to showcase leaders that we have in our community. Are there other ways we could think about, as Leon calls it, dismantling the stigma? What should we be doing or thinking about or promoting as part of the toolkit as individuals or more broadly within the national security space to justify what is possible now through rules, policies, regulation, personnel, and what we should be calling for at this moment, Francisco, because as you know, we are at a moment where there is a lot of promise potentially if there is a change in administration around this set of issues and who will be supporting and promulgating the president's agenda on it. Does anyone want to take that up? I'm going to take that first cut. So this is security clearance issues is one of the things that we look at when working at the department of authorization issues. It's one that not only impacts LGBTs community, but also the API community has for a long time raised security clearance as a barrier to them working in various sensitive posts, for example, in China. So, you know, I think one of the ideas, sort of one macro thing recommendation that we have is that whoever is putting this in charge of security clearance operations, whether that's the many of us we all know it's part of a larger bureaucracy, whether it's whether it's presidential personnel office, whether it's, you know, security clearances, depending on which agency is a minister, like different sort of folks. So making sure that you have the personnel that is looking at this issue through an intersectional lens will make in making sure that this policy that LGBT is part of that diversity, diversity inclusive personnel, sort of goals and agenda. I think can help make sure that there is cover for anybody who is looking at these sort of issues in sort of a ministry security clearances to make sure that it's done in a way that is inclusive and it's equitable and really trying to remove some of the as we mentioned, one of the other recommendations we had was creating an appeals process, so that when an individual felt like they were long for the accused of sort of, you know, their diversity being used against them, they could have a mechanism to appeal that process. And one that is hopefully to spread for them can hopefully look at their file and really educate and survive a second set of minds, and really call for that appeals program, but unfortunately died by the lawyers. That's the department is my understanding as many things do, but hopefully it could be something that is renewed and revived in the future. Ryan carry Joe anything to add to that. Okay, excellent. Well, I had a question actually that Francisco that prompted for me, which was in particular I would love if you all might be willing to to talk about an experience you've had coming out whether personally or professionally that was impactful that you think about now that sort of shapes how you approach the world. I bring this up because I remember coming out to and Marie. For example, I'm being very nervous about it. Again, I was literally the only out woman appointee at the whole in the whole department. And not that I anticipated a negative reaction for but I think there is that sort of exhilaration and terror in personally coming out to people in your life but professionally it's been quite different, especially given stigma and the cultures of the community have buttoned up foreign affairs national security and development oriented government roles in particular because you are representing the American people and traditionally that's there's only been one particular or very limited a ways to be able to do that that have been formally exclusive of our community. So I was curious if anyone would like to share and the reason I ask also is I think it's important to do mystify how that works in coming out at work to help other people also begin to think through when and where they're able to do that safely and safely and appropriately. Let me know who wants to start I always love coming out stories so feel free to have any color you want. I'm pretty sure my professional coming out story. When I had to change my LinkedIn profile to an organization that had lesbian in it. You know, while still living in Jamaica. You know, I think that regardless of where it is that we work the organization that we work in. I think that's what happens when you're when when when you are have an intersectional identity, you know whether your black, you know, a person of color gay is that you have to assess the people in your circles to determine whether or not it's okay to be who you are. And that's just something that, you know, apart from making you extremely astute at like observing human nature, you know, it takes a toll. And I think for me. I had been out to most of my professional circles. And I think when we did launch that private sector led like anti discrimination campaign, the question was asked of me because I was gay, you know, would you be the face of it. And that just like gave me pause, because that's a very different thing, being gay and working in whether it's private sector or public foundation or, you know, with government. You know, that's one thing and then being asked to be the face of it which I think a lot of folks are being asked to be the face of things as part of DNA initiatives now right.  And I think it's just that risk assessment and figuring it out and it's not, it's not a universal experience, you know, being able to do that. As Francisco pointed out, there are ways in which folks in, you know, various federal agencies experience discrimination, not getting promotions and having to file, like, you know, cases against the agencies in order to really address that. And I think it's one of the things where we have non discrimination policies in in in our agencies but whether they're enforced or not. That is a different story and I think that's part of the unfinished work. You know, to be done, should we have a change in the administration it's to make sure that the non discrimination policies that exist are either expanded strengthened or consistently enforced. And find myself always agreeing with Kerry Joe that should be the mantra of this event but I had to coming out so when I was an intern one of the first people I met was another you'll see LGBT person and I got to know him for a couple years and then we became really good friends and I came out to him but he was sort of the first person within my professional network that I came out to and you know, I don't know if it was because he was that I was really interested in getting to know him better but it was certainly a peer mentor at the time. And then the second one was a lot more public was, you know, it was an LGBT issue in Asia come up and out.com wanted to do a Lipsicle about why this is only one of 20 other LGBT issues that they should care about. And they asked me to write on it and I said, you know, what, Lipsicles are great but what if I were more personal and more educational and sort of use that as an opportunity to sort of publish being out I guess and use sort of my identity in the context of LGBT issues but also here in the US and sort of how my reaction to you, you know, sort of the inside discriminatory discriminatory law that was being imposed in that country and so, you know, to be honest, a lot of my coworkers didn't know I was gay at that point or identified as queer and so then it was, they were just lucky that I was working in a progressive place. But again, you know, still issues of micro questions constantly happen. So, I think that, you know, even though I've been fortunate to work in very inclusive environments. You know, still, we wear so many different identities on our sleeves that, you know, issues of micro question can still happen. So for example, it's not related to my queer identity, but oftentimes I always get asked why, you know, how come I didn't start working in Latin America issues, as if, you know, being Hispanic means that I have to work on Latin America and then just what happens. Now I do work in Latin America, but you know, seven years wasn't, wasn't that and so, you know, and I'm sure to carry towards the point that we don't always make sure to break out of those filers simple based on your identity.  You know, from my perspective and looking back on it now I remember seeing kind of the full range of reactions, some people were nervous about how this could impact the organization other people genuinely wanted to learn more and hadn't had experience in this space and they didn't know really what the concept of gender queer was and identifying as gender queer was and they wanted to learn more.   You know, this was a time when, you know, I was really able to see, you know, the full kind of spectrum of reactions and following that I think that the real benefit was you had just a tremendous education because a lot of people just didn't know and weren't aware of this and, you know, it's easy to have a, you know, really kind of snap reaction and, you know, that could be positive or negative but there was just tremendous education, traditional tremendous educational value. And I'm, you know, really happy to say this person documented their experiences with this, both at that office and then, you know, and other experiences and it's a great book called sissy, which is available at your local bookstore. It really just was a learning experience for me and seeing that, you know, understanding, you know, how different colleagues can react and ways to, you know, make sure that you're not, you know, escalating a situation and making sure that, you know, there's a space there's a space for, you know, when someone does come out, there's a space for learning and there's a base of understanding but also making sure that that person who's taking that step encouraged and feels acknowledged and they of course feel like they fully belong in the organization and they can contribute just like any other colleague. So that was really, I know I'll never forget it and I'm really happy, you know, they made the rainbow at the UN a little bit livelier. Thank you so much for sharing that story Ryan and such a good reminder also that you know as each one of us continue to evolve personally right we have so much to learn from each other. So much to learn from young people who are constantly changing language and keeping us on the frontier and better reflective of who we are as individuals and our values so I really appreciate you sharing that story. So we have a couple questions that have come in. So the first question is from Raphael and Raphael's world is in contracting and professional services and Raphael founded a company that allows employees to truly be themselves to be cared about to be authentic at work. And Raphael's question was about in the government space you know what is it like to to think about LGBTQIA businesses. And in Raphael I'm assuming you might be talking about the sort of interplay between the private sector and the public sector so at least as I've seen it assumptions get us in trouble but I'll start there as I've seen it you know, having worked at the small business and right now legally we don't have a way to designate certain businesses as being LGBTQIA owned in the same way we do for as so called minority owned businesses. What being a minority owned business means is that you get there are federal requirements by agency to contract a certain number of federal business which is billions trillions of dollars with minority owned small businesses or minority owned businesses generally. So that I think is an incredibly important carry joy I know you've done work on this in the within the international development space I think we've actually seen really interesting movement on how you think about non discrimination and contractors that we use I'm wondering if you might share more there and then of course Ryan Francisco please feel free to jump in. Thanks. I think there's also the nglcc, which is the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce that is also, you know, an organization that is essentially the business voice of the LGBT community and we worked with them under the partnership that Mira helped to forge the LGBT global development partnership to really look at creating a pipeline and a value chain for LGBT businesses globally accessing, you know, accessing contracts accessing various services, training leadership opportunities workshops. So they were really very helpful to a lot of chambers they established many across the world under this partnership with the US government. I think in terms of LGBT businesses, I would say not necessarily the businesses but you know Australia works as an intermediary for US government or an assistance and one of the things that we have been seeing is it's been two fold there's been increasing comfort with US government funding, while at the same time increasing challenges. So there's a way that I think that it's a mixed bag at the moment. And as Mira said, there are not as many designations and ways of charting the course and documenting and I think Ryan mentioned that data collection is so very important that we have to find ways to be much more inclusive so that this analysis can be done that we can be tracking to see where is that improvement can be made. Right and Ryan you've had a lot of engagement with the corporate sector and I was wondering if you could share a bit about how you've encountered their perspective vis-a-vis the sustainable development goals and LGBTI issues, which are included within the sustainable development goals but of course aren't their own pillar in and of themselves but are part and parcel of many different human rights and anti discrimination issues. I couldn't speak from the world benchmarking alliances without talking about benchmarks. In your personal capacity. Or just any thoughts you might have on that, the corporate space and looks like as you see it based on Rafael's question. So, you know, I can I think in the last decade, you know, we've really seen a sea change with in this space with, you know, a lot of the private sector going from, you know, something that perhaps is begrudgingly accepted to something that is affirmed in this space and really, you know, kind of going on the offense and of course there's that's exception there's there's exceptions that that's not, you know, that's not the universal case. But you know, one of the initiatives that was really terrific to engage at the UN was the global LGBTI standards of conduct conduct which is, you know, standards for equality in the workplace the marketplace in the community that has really met I don't know the exact number but you know some 300 global companies have signed on to, to be standards following a global consultation process.  And so we've seen businesses, you know, you know, adopt these principles and align their practices and we're doing a consultation now specifically on human rights empowerment and quality that align SDG targets to business practices. But you know to get out of the, you know, kind of mini gritty of SDG targets, I will say just this, you know, I do think, you know, when civil society works with the private sector and making sure it's of course, you know, responsible private sector companies, not just any private sector company, but when you do have those sort of, you know, multi stakeholder partnerships, you, I think, are more likely to succeed and frankly it's just a lot more fun. You know, last year, not like two years ago, you know, we did an event at the UN Foundation where we brought Kenneth Cole together with UN diplomats from the global north and south to the Broadway show to a Broadway show with the LGBTI inclusion and I'm totally blanking on the name now and I can't believe I'm blanking on the name, but it was, it was just on Broadway but, you know, it was really great opportunity for the business community to always the problem excuse me. It was a great opportunity for the private sector to help raise awareness about LGBTI human rights and raise money for a great UN campaign but also for diplomats to see LGBTI people and really recognize that these challenges are universal whether it's some place abroad or a school in Indiana from the prom. It really was a great opportunity and we really actually saw, you know, some really tangible and advocacy impact from that meeting and bringing these ambassadors together. So I do think it only makes sense. It's not only the landscape is changing but also it, you know, really does help change the dial and that there's really a lot of entrepreneurial things when you're working on a cross sector multi stakeholder basis. So we need to make sure that companies doing it for the right reasons that they're themselves reflecting good practices that are not just trying to pink wash and you know check a box that they really are showing that they are a leader across their value and supply chain. Well, and speaking of Indiana right that's actually a great state where we have seen corporate intervention when Governor Pence attempted to implement an anti LGBT law in the state. They had corporates saying they weren't going to hold conferences there, they were going to deviate their business in the state. I mean it resulted in that law, not moving forward. So I think that's, it was a fascinating domestic example to really see the private sector shift from just a sort of human resources perspective to really think about what does this mean both for our brand, but what does this mean for how we do our business in the sort of operational sense. So thank you for sharing that. Okay, we have another question in Francisco, did you want to weigh in on this before I move us quickly to another question just wave. Okay, great. So we have a great question from Joe McLaughlin. And referencing something we had talked about earlier so you know that a lot of us have read bios to better understand and gain commonalities where you can kind of dot the dot the draw a line between successful professionals and sort of what is the pattern right how can I better pattern match because if I can pattern match I can figure out this town or I can figure out this agency. And of course the challenge is if we are not in those spaces we're dealing with different sets of issues at times. So Joe talks about how national security is an incredibly challenging space to break into and would love to hear from the panel on you know what are some ways that LGBT QI students and young professionals can begin to gain this valuable knowledge the insight and the experience within the national security nexus in order to chart their own course successfully. And I'd love to hear from each one of the panelists on this, and then all for some thoughts at the end. I mean I think besides reading bios, what was really instrumental early on for me was just having a ton of informational interviews and learning each of those conversations to me, you know, which was that a very difficult moment where I thought, you know, I was just an intern for so long, it's not going to work out. Every one of those informational interviews gave me a ray of hope that okay this person actually went about it, maybe in a different way, or maybe this person, maybe this connection will lead down a path that otherwise might have not been open. And so, you know, I know that COVID has made that really difficult. But like Ryan said don't, don't hesitate to reach out to people on the list. Contact them, LinkedIn or Twitter, you know, I usually find an area of commonality that you have whether you went to the same school, or simply are interested in something that they said in their sort of, you know, in front of their comments. They were honored. I think all of that can really help you make a connection and maybe learn about a different path that otherwise, otherwise you might have not thought through. Not everyone goes through the same path. Everyone's path will be different. But I think it's really worth going through that discovery. I'd agree with Francis going a lot. I think reading bios was very, very helpful for me. And especially the reaching out. I think now it's easy to reach out and ask someone to a virtual coffee, because we've gotten so much more used to the virtual world zoom calls, and it means that people are more accessible in different ways. Because, you know, we're on a different platform so it's not unheard of now to be connecting with someone in a different country, or in a different state over coffee, which is not something that, you know, we would have thought to do maybe a year, two years ago, and technology enables us to do that. So reaching out definitely. And, yeah, I think those are those are really good. I'll piggyback on Francis go with that one.  I think it's, you know, it's so easy whether your LGBT or not to see one, you know, kind of bullet, you know, in the description you're like well that's not quite me so I can't apply for this and then the whole thing it shut down. And, you know, I think, you know, my perspective, you know, some of the times I've learned the most is when I didn't things didn't work out and when I would you know got an opportunity to look at my strengths look at areas that I wasn't doing so well on but I do think there is perhaps a tendency for many of us to see that one bullet or two bullets and say, Well, that's not exactly my experience so this totally isn't for me and I'll never get it. And I just think more than likely, you know, maybe this is the ideal candidate they're looking for the absolute ideal person and that you still absolutely bring something to the table with other parts of your background or your expertise and your kind of authentic experience that you're bringing to the table so, you know, don't self disqualify if you see something that is kind of a bridge that would be a jump you know go for it and you know, there's every hope it will work but you know don't you know try and try and get around that self doubt and it's not it's easy to say that I know but you know just really think about the strengths that you actually bring to the table. Oh my gosh, Ryan I really appreciate that. That was great. And I think it also reminded me about going down rabbit holes. Like those are really, really great so you start with a bio and then you end up, you know, at the Atlantic Council or the Truman National Security Project or, you know, some other fellowship program that is available only for people under the age of 30, and those are wonderful. So, you know, we might actually disqualify for those but many of the young LGBT students and young leaders they it's the right time. Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up character I was in the Atlantic Council millennium fellow and so one of the things I was going to mention was these fellowships that are targeting young people. And that's what you go after I will say Ryan I so appreciate you saying that you know I think that it does get better, but imposter syndrome is real and I experienced it far too often. So I think apply for things you don't think you'll get and you'll be pleasantly surprised I think more often than not. I'm going to say in addition to the fellowship so the Atlantic Council millennium fellowship Truman National Security Project which is run by a terrific ally Jenna venue who spent time with us some of us at the State Department and worked very closely with me on the LGBTI issues at state and is integrating a lot of that into Truman. I would also think about this is very DC answers so take it with a grain of salt, but you know, people really are the work that's done in DC one of the best things about it is you get to work with friends and especially if you work on the hill, or sort of on with younger research types of the think tanks you're all very young, and you love to go to happy hours together and all get to be friends and get to know each other and then you get to work together on things so I would. It might be interesting for younger people I think to look at both the Senate and the House have LGBT staffer groups that regularly I mean in normal times but that I assume they're still kind of getting together for happy hours that was something I really loved I had worked on the hill. And even after I left and went into the Obama administration I always go back it was also helpful. Because you know as Francisco knows, then I knew the people who are on Senate Foreign Affairs, or sort of Senate Foreign Relations Committee or the House Foreign Affairs Committee to be able to work with them so for example. I got a bipartisan letter from the House Foreign Affairs Committee commending our international LGBT work that only happened because I knew a young person who was LGBT who worked over there and then we plotted together to figure out how could we get both the bipartisan members on the record about this international LGBT issues, and then how could we assuage the concerns of, you know the conservative diplomatic bureaucracy that these issues were not something that was, you know, too far field and that was going to get the hill upset at us because you know obviously the federal agencies are always very concerned about what the legislative branch thinks about the work that they're doing. So I think that piece is really helpful the Equality Caucus represents all the LGBT members they often do events and gatherings as well. And then a different think tanks there are Center for American Progress and the Human Rights Council and others do do gatherings there's also the organization called Q Street, which is run by sort of a lobbyist but it's really a group of policy advocates private sector folks and others and they have events that bring together a whole cross section of folks in DC who all work together. And I think it's that personal relationship is makes it a little bit easier in some ways than to be able to go up to someone senior that you've seen before maybe you just watch their panel and be able to have more of an informal conversation. And then get to eventually have coffee with them one day which I think is such a great honor and I know each one of us has had that. And those, those kinds of focus times are really meaningful. I wanted to, I don't think there are any more questions I'll just do one last call call for from this crowd of anything you'd love to hear from this panel on or just want to make sure that we touch upon in our last few moments. And barring that I wanted to bring us to conclusion. I'm mostly just to start with a deep amount of gratitude for New America and for out national security for doing this work. Luke, Sean and rusty who are Obama, former Obama appointees we call LGBT 44. You know when you're thinking about what more can I be doing in this space what more can I do for the world. Look at their example look at what they've created they've created an organization from scratch they've created a leadership list. They have solicited promises from the future president United States around what equitable inclusion looks like in foreign policy. And so I am finding this shared experience to be something that is incredibly helpful in a really challenging year and I so appreciate the time that each one of the panelists took from their important jobs advancing social justice and rights for community and many others around the world. And I wanted to say that for each of you for Luke, Sean rusty for all of you who serve in and around government who are listening to this your service to our country is so important and it is not recognized often enough certainly it's not recognized monetarily. I, but I think in this moment when many Americans in particular have deep questions about what their government is doing what the role of civic engagement couldn't should look like. I'm, you all have spent your lives dedicated to that, and I think that the more we can uplift the work that you're doing. And the work that you will do in the future is something that gives me a deep amount of hope and excitement about what the next few months and the next few years will look like. So as Kerry Joe aptly said, this is just the beginning. And I think we should both learn from history but also I loved being able to think about how do we do we get comfortable with discomfort. 2020 has represented a year of deep and personal discomfort to each and every one of us personally professionally for so many reasons. But there is real opportunity and thinking about what innovation actually looks like in practice innovation is discomfort inherent right it means that you're doing something different than everything that's been done before for better or worse. And so how can we learn lessons from that and how can we all apply our privilege all of us are here are privileged enough to have an internet connection we're privileged enough to know about this organization we're privileged enough to have served, and that is a privilege. And a lot I would love to leave everyone with and something that's been on my mind a lot is a motto of the black suffragettes in the US it's in the 100th year anniversary of women's right to vote. And their motto was lift while we climb. So I was curious to hear if if the panel has any, any, any thoughts just reacting to this, you know, what is one step that each one of us can take with every single person who's watching this panel who's speaking and participating to to lift while we know that's from the power of our example to thinking about supporting this next generation of rising leaders, who we learn so much from now but who really need their voices in the arena, as we're developing policies in order to make them more trenchant and more powerful and impactful. For me personally I'm going to send this list the application to next year's list to buy POC, particularly women, trans and gender non conforming people I'm telling you all now so keep me honest. It is truly I think the voices that are most lacking in this space and the ones I most want to hear from. And I didn't know if any of the panelists want to weigh in with just a quick thought on one step that you all might be taking more that you've already taken, but wanted to a pause there to see if anyone wants to leave in. I can go quickly. I have been taking virtual coffees with young LGBTI folks who have reached out to me on LinkedIn. So I've been doing that but apart from that I think in every space and on every platform that I'm in is something similar to you Mira, which is to try to share the voices and the perspectives and priorities of the black POC, you know, GNC, trans, LGBTI partners that we have across the world, not just here to center the experience of our global south and global east sisters and brothers and nibblings. Yeah, no, would certainly agree with that. I was actually going to use a quote, which very much echoes that many of you know might might know this former congressional candidate Alexandra Chandler is also a Truman. And I said this in all where she said, if you pursue every policy with a trans black POC immigrants lens, then you ensure that every policy is inclusive of everybody. Not just marginalized, but also everybody that it was meant to be applied to. So I really think that were, you know, that that quote to me really resonated and it sort of, you know, makes me think about everything that I do, not only how can it benefit me but also my community but also other communities that I might not be part of, but I'm often times with them, most marginalized in the intersectional lens as well. For me, I'm going to listen and make sure that, you know, I'm learning from others and the experiences that they bring from the table, but also spotlight when we see these kind of best practices when we see various parts of the community doing extraordinary things to spotlight that success and make sure we can scale that and make sure we can all continue to work together. Wonderful. Thank you all so much, Heather, Luke, the terrific new America team, who was wonderful in their preparation and execution of this event. And thank you to all for joining and for your great questions and looking forward to seeing you next year. And in the interim look forward to hearing about what you're doing for self care, what you're doing to help lift while you rise and hopefully start in full embrace all the hope and opportunity we have ahead. Thank you very much.