I'm counting. I'm counting eight, am I right? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Yeah, we have. You've got to come, you should go. Yep. Okay, good. Good morning, everyone. This is December 9th meeting of the elementary school building committee. And I, as always, thank everyone for getting up early to join us. Because we're conducting this. Meeting by zoom virtually, I need to make sure everyone can see and be heard. So I'm going to call on the names of the committee members as I see them on my screen. Mike. Present. Sean. Present. Jonathan. Here. Tammy. Here.  Rupert. Yep, I'm here. Angelica. Here. And Simone. Here. As other people join, I'll, I'll double check with them and Paul will not be with us this morning. I think for any of the meeting, because we managed to double book his calendar. I see Ben is just logged on. Ben. I just want to make sure you can hear and be heard and Rupert. You're good and Rupert. I think that was Rupert. So Ben and Rupert. I see. Now you can see my lips move. Okay. I can see your lips move and I see that is nodding his head. So. I'm here. We are officially. On and we are recording. I remember to hit the recording. I'm going to turn it over to Margaret. We have a pretty simple agenda this morning, but I think we're going to. Yeah. I'm going to turn it over to Margaret. I'm going to turn it over to Margaret. You can show the agenda, but one of the things we want to make sure everyone does is get. Meetings. On their calendars. We have disabled screen sharing again. Oh, okay. So I enable. All right. You should be able to do it now. Okay. Great. Thank you, Sean. Okay. So. Let me just sort of. Talk about the agenda. So. There are some design updates, but what we're going to actually going to start with, I think it's talking about. We're going to start with design updates. And the cost estimate documents, but I am also going to give an update on our meetings. Going forward. So. That is. And we've got as part of this. Committee committee meeting date piece. We've laid out some tentative dates for. Committee forums and school committee updates. And updates to council that are all embedded in that. So, but I think as Kathy has laid out here, we're going to start with the design updates. And we do have one invoice to review. Okay. And before we turn it over to Dennis, go, I just, when Margaret goes through the dates, we will send you everything. I think we're going to start with the design updates. I think we're going to be showing. Because this is a change in both January and February meetings. To make sure we have plenty of time when we get the cost estimates back. So I just want to make sure everyone. Gets their January and February. Those are going to be pretty important dates to make sure you have on your calendar. So I am turning it over to the Dinesco team. So what I'm going to show you today. Hopefully everyone was able to look in some part at the documents that we posted Tuesday. So it's the drawings set and basis of design. And then today I'm going to just going to go through some of the materials versions of what you've seen before videos and plans that just point out where things are relevant to the drawings where things have changed ever so slightly. And where we're looking at doing alternates. So I'm going to go through the plans and point out some very minor changes. And then we can get into the videos where we can see where there's actual effects of the things that we're doing. The site plan, no real changes since you've last seen it. But if you have looked at the documents. Our landscape architect, Bill Brown. And then we'll talk about briefly meeting the energy code that will be in effect by the time this is under construction and permitted. So I'm going to quickly go through the plans and point out some very minor changes. So I'm going to go through the plans and point out some of the things that we're doing. And then we'll go through the plans and point out some of the things that we're doing. Our landscape architect, Bill Brown has documented and called out the materials in detail for all of the areas that you see on the site, the playground materials, the classrooms, all of the paving. And, you know, that will be very important for getting the cost estimate at the level that we need. Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm not the owner of this meeting, but I know we have a couple of questions. I'm sorry to interrupt. Let her in. Thank you. Thank you. I just saw that. No, that's great. Mike. I just. So Alicia, I promoted you to panelists. Can you just make sure we can hear you and be heard. You should be in the room. I think I did that right, Sean. She's in the room, but I don't know if she can hear you to ask her again. So Alicia, just. You're showing up as in the room with us. And I just wanted to make sure that you can hear me. I'm not going to be in the room. I'm going to be in the room with you and let us know what you can hear and hear us. And we can hear you. Okay. Let's, let's keep going. And then Alicia, if. Let's see. I don't know if you all can hear me. I'm having some issue with my audio. We can. We can hear you. Fine. That works fine. Thank you. Okay, Tim. Thank you. Moving into the building there. I think that's a good thing that will affect the experience of the building user or that you'll actually ever see. We've adjusted some closets in the service area. Now that we understand where the generator will be on site and how power will get into the building. We've made the stairs a little bit wider as we finalize the area of the building to get more light into the common areas. And just to make the stairs more comfortable. The changes to the stairs. I think that's a good thing. Other than that, we've just been tweaking and moving some mechanical closets around as we coordinate with our engineers. And then on the third floor, we've reconfigured to tidy up the mechanical room and the main electrical room and make the stair a little bit bigger to get more light down into the building into the lobby from this main stair that will go outside the gym in the cafeteria. And then the. Approach that we're taking in terms of being able to control all of the exterior materials that we've talked about in the past, the porcelain rain screen system. The ground face CMU that we might use for the lighter masonry material at the top of the building. Those will be sent to the cost estimators as alternate so that we can interchange as we get the pricing back. We've also asked for an alternate for the accent color panels next to the windows that we could either do in the. Gleased CMU, which we have shown you, which has a very vibrant color and there's also an option to do it in a single skin metal panel, which also gives you a very wide range of custom colors, which are available. And then in terms of energy conservation measures that we will have in our pocket just to make sure that we are hitting the UI and the energy performance of the building that will be required under the 10th edition of the code that will be in effect before we are going out to permit. We are going to do an alternate where all windows in the basis of design are standard double pane. We are going to do an alternate for a triple pane window. We will also do an alternate for heat mirror. We're calling it. It's a trade name, but it's essentially triple pane window, but the center. We're calling it triple pane of glasses a mylar film rather than glass. So it's a bit more cost effective than triple pane, but performed similarly. We are also going to do an alternate for under slabs insulation, which is not required by code and by current modeling. We don't need, but due to some intricacies of how energy conservation and energy use is calculated in the new code. There's just a little bit of wiggle room that should be resolved in the next month or two with Thornton, Thomas, and we just want to make sure that we have the flexibility to meet that challenge if it arises. And then that last bullet point is also about, we might have to adjust the amount of insulation in the walls and the roof. Well, we're currently modeling. And what we have in the basis of design, the R 25 walls and the R 40 roof, we think that we'll meet the code, but we just want to confirm. So we just want to have that out there. And then I'm going to switch to some videos that just show what we've been working on and where the effects are. As you go to those, Tim, I see that both Phoebe and Allison have joined us. Phoebe, can you hear us? I just want to make sure to do a voice check. Thank you. And Allison. Yes, I can. Thank you. So here's a video that you've seen before walking in the lobby. And through the main vestibule going straight to the office. All of the changes in here are not to materials that they're actually to, and you'll see as you walk around some minor things, we're adjusting the proportions of the window to make sure that the clear story is clear of snow and rain, but we've actually moved the roof down rather than remove any glass, which you're seeing up to the upper left, and you'll see better as we turn around. As you look into that main stair, it's actually flipped 180 degrees. The stair used to be on the upside used to be on the left. Now it's on the right. This actually, as you go up through the building, will allow a little bit more light to come through as the open side of the stair will be against the windows upstairs. So the changes that I'm talking about are at that level of subtlety. Most of the things that you have seen are here and remain. And as you've come to expect that is what's going to be priced. Tim, so I don't know if you want to just quickly maybe pause for a sec and just talk about the materials and. As a release to the basis of design. Sure. We are doing just starting from the floor and going up. We are doing a linoleum essentially everywhere, other than in the gym. The platform that you're looking at right now. On the bathrooms tile in the kitchen. Some of the finishes that we've talked about in the past. Wayne's got tile and wood paneling in the public spaces with tack boards and marker boards. We're looking at the building. We're looking at the building with accent panels and rooms for art or room for art at selected locations in the building here. You're looking back towards the lobby that's outside the stair. And the elevator. And then circling around back to the front of the building. You have a. Wood veneer panel. Accent and glass into the. Music practice area. And then on the ceiling. And the glass into the administration area. This finish that you can see in the lobby is the exterior masonry material. Turning into the building to bring things. Together. The finisher that we spent for all durable stand up to time. And our cost effective in our experience for, you know, the performance that you need for a school, which is obviously a. Highly trafficked. I'll say abused type of building. There are a few more videos in the library in the project areas, and then we'll get to the outside. Just give me a second because they're separate videos. I see Allison's hand is up Allison. I think this is a simple question. Are there sound absorbing panels in the cafeteria? I'm going to go back to the cafeteria and one second. So the answer is yes. And I will show you where they are. It's very hard to see with the glare here, but all of the ceiling. In the center area where it's a bit higher. As a. Ceiling that has. Panels that are sound absorbing and then where you don't have that you have a standard. It's a high performing lay in acoustic ceiling. And then on the platform itself, you have sound absorbing traits and there will be panels. To the right. All of that is because there are a lot of hard surfaces. There's glass. On the exterior against the corridor and the floor is hard, which will cause reverberation. So to account for all that, there are sound absorbing because we know how cafeterias can be loud. I see Jonathan's hand is up also. Yeah, it's just a similar question regarding the gymnasium is presumably you've got some sort of sound absorption in there as well. The colorful. Pads above the CMU are called out as a painted tecton. So those are so present panels. And then the roof deck itself is an acoustic deck. And to an extent, the crash padding also provides, but you do have a similar issue. You know, with the gym floor, the extent that it is CMU, you have a lot of reverberant surfaces, but we do have tecton acoustic deck and wallpads in there to get in the sound. Any other questions on this? Next, I'm going to go to the projector. So here we're starting in the corridor, moving toward the east end of the building. When we get outside and it has, has been shown before the end of the corridor is completely glass for letting light in and wayfinding here. We are turning into the project areas. You can see the transom above the lockers and storage that will allow a lighted ceiling and a feeling of daylight to get into the project area. This time we have the doors open so you can. See into the classroom. But there are lockers for. Every individual student with in the project area. Storage above for the teachers. Space for pull out learning in the project area itself. And currently we're showing mill work with a white board and a little seating area. The ceiling elements are visible as you're walking down the hall, but we've basically kept them. Not solid sort of. So we're just going to. Move in like to allow more daylight into the project area space. And then there's just one more. Project area. So Tim, I'm just going to ask as you're getting the other one on. For the classrooms. For the furniture for whether there is a. A screen on the wall. And where it's located. It's flexible in terms of. I'm asking statement as a question also. Exactly what the chairs will be exactly what the furniture will be. Exactly which wall. If people want a white book, you know, to, to do. Features. So that can be decided later. So it's in the specs in terms of the expense for it. It's in the specs in terms of the expense for it. The chairs will be decided later. So I don't want to say that there's going to be individual flexibility on a room by room basis for where the white board will be. But where that is in terms of the total design. There's still time to talk about that, but we have a pretty good idea where it should be for systems, for mill work for the, for the relationship of the teaching wall to the door. This project area view actually starts in a classroom looking out the window and then turning around to see the project area. So you can see that the teaching wall was on your left. As you walk in classroom chairs, this is tables, but it could be desks. The movable storage wall to the back here is the amount of windows that you will have in each room. And this is. Allows us to get to that 22% that will allow the building perform. So we had to make a few reductions in glazing area and in other parts of the building that hit that 22%, which is something we'll mention when we get to the outside, but we have kept what we've been showing along, all along in the classrooms in the library and in the cafeteria and the lobby because we know that, you know, those spaces that are used every day by the students and used most importantly, we wanted to make sure that was there. So we removed a little glass in the gym, a little bit in the admin, but we'll get to that when we get outside. Kathy, Tim, if you could just pause scope. If you could just go back into the classroom. Thanks. I just, just to clarify. The furniture and technology or not in the base construction budget. What we're doing is those are separate. Separate line items for MSBA. It's part of the soft costs. So what we're doing is we're getting those priced out now based on our conversations with the school department, both for technology and for furniture and equipment. And we should have those by the end of the year as well. So we'll have those before our, as part of the total project costs, because that's what's important to the town. So we're looking at, as far as technology. That has not a hundred percent been decided. And so what we're doing is we're looking at the different costs as far as what the projection on in a classroom is going to look like, whether it's going to be an interactive projector, whether it's going to be flat panel to screens. I don't want to say TV is flat interactive flat panels. But we're also going to be looking at the, the quality of the furniture and the school department on those features. So I just want to make sure everyone knows you're not going to see a line item for some of those things in the cost estimate. Items that will be included in the cost estimate is the sound. The PA system, which will also as part of that, which will be built into the ceiling will include. A sound system for the staff. It's called top cat system. It's a sound reinforcement system that will be included as part of the base contract with the teacher, can wear a lapel and amplify her voice or his voice instead of having to yell that will be included in the base contract. See, Tammy's hand is up also, Donna. Thank you. Yeah. I just, I just had a question in regards to the, the tables or desks that I see. I really liked that their individuals can be moved around. Do we know if those or whatever desks that will be in the classrooms could be raised? I know that there are some students, particularly in fourth grade that like to stand to have a standing desk. Sure, sure. So where we left off with the. High-level revenue discussion was the lower grades would have tables. The high, the older upper grades would have desks. Every, every classroom will have a stand stand, a standing desk. Tammy, some of the younger grades can, those can be adjustable to fifth graders. We're going to have to purchase a separate standing dish just because of the size of the fifth graders. Based on the feedback that we've had and we can walk through it, the furniture and equipment, you know, it's really that we need to know now we need to include it in the budget and make sure that it's accounted for, but we will start having really detailed conversations about exactly the color, the type, the book. I'm seeing that we have the bookshelves under the desk, whether that's preferred or not. We'll get into all of that detail later in the design because products, manufacturers change their furniture on an annual basis and we'll just make sure that we have the latest as we start going out to bid for it. Angelica? Yeah, my question is along the same lines as Tammy and I know that the specifics of the design choices will come later, but it is related to cost because I am also thinking about the choice of chairs as it applies for students with disabilities and making sure that some of the challenges we've had in previous furniture choices, say in the cafeteria, really affected the ability of students with disabilities to be included because for instance chairs couldn't be raised or they were attached to furniture so it would be nice to be able to see ahead of time some of those choices and get some input from the folks in the special ed office to make sure that the costs are included for things that may be put in each classroom that can better include students with disability. Thank you. Yeah, we will. We will Angelica. It goes everywhere from the types of seats and the flexibility of those seats all the way to the standing desks if preferred. And the cafeteria, of course, we will make sure that there's sufficient space for handicap students that need to sit at the table and won't fit in a seat and things like that but a lot of the special educators will be very helpful especially as it relates to the ILC program to weigh in to a lot of these choices so thank you. If I could just quickly follow up and it's not just about the ILC because part of the interest in the school is that it's going to allow us to deal with some things that we have been challenging in the past about including students with disabilities across and that was one of the things about the design of it being like for instance several stories because it allows us to really better integrate and not to have the separation so we've had architecturally in place in the past. So I just want to make a plug for talking not just in terms of the ILC but all students and students have also not just students with intensive needs but students with autism different sensory concerns needs sensory equipment in classrooms and that's the way of the future that's the way a lot of the schools are moving towards to include so in the budget. So some of that sensory equipment and get feedback I'm not I'm not a design sensory expert but that will also benefit all students and that is additional cost and so it's better and I'm happy to also but you know, you know if we can get that information ahead of time I would love to look at what might be the possibilities and get from the folks and special ed educators and the PT the physical therapist to get their input on what equipment might be best because it would be a good investment to go ahead and have that equipment rather than depend on each kid's IEP to request that equipment and have to fight for that equipment because it's just we can just institute it now. Right and thank you and I was referring to the ILC just only because they really have special needs and they've been great advocates but but we do include and the PT folks are really important when we start making decisions on the type of chair or options on chairs whether they're what we call hockey chairs where the kids can move around and and have kids that that can't sit still in the standing dust. Another example, equipment's a different conversation, but the furniture itself. We have we will have a good handle on that as as we present the budget and at the beginning of the year and those conversations again can continue and be refined as as we move forward. So we hear you, I just want to make sure that we fully understand that need. I'm just going to continue moving out of the classroom here's the view of the project area from the classroom side. As you walk into the corridor you can see the whiteboard that we currently show in the middle work a little sitting areas. And then this is the view across the hall. You can see the doors with the wide side lights the transom glass, all of which is an attempt to bring the exterior light into the building and these project areas which are going to be the hub of activity for these grades. Um, Denisco team, I just want to say, I think, watched, you know, seen a lot of these presentations and I want to say to the committee, I think that we haven't had as much chance as we would like to to talk here in the committee about the detailed design of the classrooms but I think they've done a really great job and I want to thank them for their effort there's a kind of theory of classroom design which is behind a lot of what you're seeing and maybe when we get into the next phase we'll talk about that a little more detail so I think it's really well done. With that we're going to go to a quick view of the media center. This is walking in the media center door you'll see the circulation desk and the librarians book room there. And we've maintained the amount of glazing in the library looking up to the fields to the north. The layout is as you saw last week there's a group learning area in the corner of the library stacks around looking to the other corner of the library in front of the teacher's workroom should say library and workroom there's a storytelling area defined with soft seating, the circulation desk. And then as you look back at the entrance to the library that we had her showing a glass wall and across the court or is a glass stair that will connect to the lobby the third floor and there will be light coming in from the windows above. The bookcases in the middle of the floor, part of basic services, part of the construction or part of the cabinet. Okay, so that's that's a big differentiator right now is that all of the bookshelves are incorporated as part of the construction budget as opposed to having the built ends along the perimeter be part of the construction budget and then the movable stacks in the center of the library would be part of FFNA so that to we can put on a list if needed, as, as part of value engineering but that only increases, you know the cost at the other side but it's just something to note that you will see a significant amount of shelving and the cost estimate. Tammy, sorry. Sorry. Now, can you just look at the instructional area in the library just going to make sure that there's technology there. Okay, I just did. Yeah. So granted you're looking at it obliquely it's against this wall there is a break in the shelving there. And then just it's there to capture cost and the amount of seats and the technology. There's a pretty good argument that it probably wants to be over where the storytelling area is just because you're surrounded by windows and projection and distraction is maybe not the best thing. And the storytelling area might rather be here, but all of that is yet to be finalized and hope to have a, you know, a very in depth discussion about how this library in detail is going to Phoebe. So, Donna, you're, you're what you just said maybe just have kind of an overarching question. In terms of when we get the cost estimate the detail cost estimates back. Do we go through that all together like in in significant detail to figure out what's included there what you know what's not all of that kind of stuff. Well, we'll have two estimates Phoebe and both will be 5060 pages long so the intent is not to do a page Turner. Well, what there will be summary sheet which might be helpful that will break it down by division is what they're called in the construction world. Meaning we'll say okay this is mechanical this is fire protection this is plumbing. Here are what the paint is what the different materials are based on divisions, and we can go through that and that's why we're kind of letting you know now as we're going through this this is. These are the materials that are included in the cost estimate but we can have these videos as well, when we can go through a high level review of the cost estimates and then we can get into the weeds if in certain areas if there's a desire for that. You can schedule you can schedule a whole day if we needed to go through it in detail. The written basis of design is also probably the most user friendly way to read what is represented in the cost estimate because it describes the systems that are included in the cost and the developers use that in lieu of a specific technical specification to to develop their estimates. And that's what we're looking what you've sent us record is is it's for them and for us. Thank you. Sean, I see Sean Sanchez. Thanks Kathy two questions. Tim you probably already answered this and I just missed it. What's the flooring in this room. The library is carpet and that's the only building in the room with carpet. Okay, yeah, you probably heard, you probably heard some of our carpet tear out stories okay. And then the second question related to Phoebe's previous one. If people are interested are they able to attend the cost reconciliation meeting, just to sort of listen into that process or is it. I've been invited to one for the library, a little bit smaller project I didn't know if it was something that people could attend for the school just just to hear sort of the back and forth conversation around that. I'm going to want to record on it but typically if the cost. I'm going to punt them to. Yeah, that one's coming to me. I, I would say. No, because, but I do think we could have a kind of wrap up summary session after it. I think made first of all, it's often at this level, a three to four hour meeting it's really kind of like watching paint dry. So I want to say it's not the, and it, and it's highly technical. So, I see Jonathan's got his hand up. So I would say no but I think we can certainly arrange to have a summary. Yeah, and I think that's my understanding to have of it I just know some people have been interested and get into sort of the those very fine details so but interested here with Jonathan has to say. I would tend to agree with Margaret that my my experience has been they can be very long, and they are very technical. I think if folks want to do a deeper kind of understanding or exploration of, of what's in the cost estimate. I wonder if there's a way to, you know, to have kind of a deeper kind of review of the basis of design, because like Rick I think that's that's where the meat of what's going into this estimate is. And if, you know, folks want to, to more fully understand I think that would be the place to start. But, but, but maybe Phoebe if, if there's more to your question about, you know, understanding the estimates. It would be good to understand your question more if we're misunderstanding. I think I don't think there's a misunderstanding I think I'm just trying to put all the pieces together and so we have this, you know ginormous document that we just got that I'm doing my best to get through. And it would be, it would be very interesting and I think to try to be diplomatic. I think it would be good for the town that we live in to really understand the correlation and in order to understand the correlation between this document that we have and the document that's going to this being the document that is going to ultimately have a direct reflection on our costs what materials are being used what materials, you know, people are coming back to us and saying, you know this is how much this is going to cost for this thing that you've given us. I think I was just trying to figure out how much of that detail. Do we all get to hear see, you know, really get a feeling of so that's where my question was coming from like, like how much of the pieces are we going to put together as a group in the public I think that's kind of where it was coming from if that makes sense. Yeah, so Phoebe the base of design yes that enormous document and it will get bigger. As the project progresses, but, but the that that basis of design is what the cost estimators are basing their estimates on. So if you know, I think maybe it might be helpful to understand okay so so just so for everyone to understand the cost estimating reconciliation it's going to be two cost estimators. They're going to sit in a room, they have the basis of design they know there's carpet in the media center there's no they know that there's linoleum and on the floors with the roof, all of that stuff all the materials that are listed in the design, they're going to sit there and say, hmm, is the carpet worth $3 and 50 cents a square foot, or $3 and 25 cents a square foot that that's the micro level that the cost estimates get into. So what about, oh, is it vinyl tile, or is it linoleum tile that they have the basis of design so that. So, so when we say it's cost reconciliation it's literally making sure that two independent cost estimators are making the right. So the unit costs for all of the information, or all of the detail that we've provided them. So, or the end that they've got their quantities. I apologize, because I want to interrupt and suggest that we hold on this question, so we get to the schedule that I'm going to talk about, because as Jonathan says, and I think there's time, there is time. And once this process has been, you know, once the sausage has been made, and we, the, the consultant team can present something. There is time to have a more detailed discussion beyond the building committee meeting and so I'd like to just keep going with what we're doing and come back and talk about it relative to schedule. Okay, Donna says good. And I agree with that and I just as you get to the end of this. What I think I heard Tim say at the very beginning when he was doing insulation and there's been code changes that you're grappling with. It sounds like you're going to get, you're also pricing out some options, you could go this way or that way is that correct. That's what I heard Tim say so we're going to have. In addition to the, how much does the floor cost we're going to have. If we insulate this way this is the insulation or the, so we're going to have some pieces, which will add to the complexity but I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Okay, back to Tim. Okay. We're going to watch one final video of the exterior of the building. And this should look much as it has before. I mentioned that we there were some tweaks in the percentage of glass window to wall ratio to allow us to get to the 22% number that our energy model is based on some of that reduction. The, if you have very good eyes, you'll notice that the punched openings the windows at the administration suite are slightly narrower. They're still ample and you have clear story window coming into the right lobby but that is one of the decisions we made to get down to the number. The cafeteria and library as we sing or going around that glass has all been maintained. We're just talking about alternates. This is a view where you can see one of the major pieces. So the brick, the iron spot, the darker brick is in the basis of design. We have alternates for the lighter masonry. We will cost out both a porcelain rain screen panel and the glazing. As I mentioned, we will price out various options be it the standard double pane or triple planer heat mirror. The accent panels against all of the classroom windows we will price those a couple of different ways so that, you know, when we get these costs back, depending on where we are, we can make the decisions that we need to give you the project that you want. In terms of that there have been no real manipulations of the composition of the design. Just the glazing changes there were some small windows here at the east end not in the corridor but in the offices that are here. But it's a small 150 square foot office with a three foot one window that goes to the ceiling it's actually very generous in terms of daylight. You'll see at the stairs. We've introduced some spandrel panels where the stair itself comes up against the glass and there was no light getting in anyway. That's one of the tweaks that will have minimal effect that allows us to get to the window to wall ratio. Is that a questioning hand market. I can't hear you. Can you just quickly explain what a spandrel panel is. So the curtain wall that is shown here at the stair. It's a continuation of the current wall system, but it's a opaque window element rather than vision glass and then behind that there will be insulation which will allow it to perform as any other part of the wall basically up to the R 25 assembly. So it helps on the installation and it hides the structure and other stuff behind it that you don't really want to see. Correct. We've taken the same approach at the main stair in the center of the building that the kids getting off the bus will go up. Right now it's shown as a spandrel panel within the curtain wall, we may color match the panel around it. That is one of the effects that are one of the tweaks that we made to the envelope. We also took a little bit of glass out of the gym. If you can see at the corner between the door and the clear story, which is still on the southeast and west side and still very generous and we might even reduce that a little bit more just for glare. But those are the changes that we had to make to get the window to wall ratio down to 22%. And that is what is reflected in the cost estimate, and that is what the assumptions were for the energy model of that gets us to the R 25 EUI target. Tim, can I ask in the gym, you know, given that it's south facing and has this glare issue. Have you looked at the modeled or will you model the, how the daylight works in that room relative to sports activities. Yes, we will we've even captured that before and we might as we develop the design we may move. Yes, absolutely because that, you know, if you have a basket that you can't shoot at it. Right. Okay. In the, in the cost estimates. Did you have to specify the PV panels. How many of them are going on the roof versus these standing platforms over. Is that correct. I mean I haven't as that will show that I didn't get to wherever that is in the dark. Actually that shows very well that you. The documents that we posted are about 50 pages short of what we are going to be posting today so we will send an updated copy but as I mentioned in the email that I sent to the committee so fire protection. Some of the electrical drawings were not there and PV was also one of them but actually I have a drawing that I can share with you. That shows that breakdown that will be incorporated in the documents. One second. And the only reason I'm asking is that earlier on you said it's less anything we can put on the roof is less expensive than what we put over the parking lot so that's, that's true and working with solar design we've identified a bit more PV area on the roof which is allowed to shift some out of the parking lot which will have some effect on cost in reducing it. This is one iteration ago there is one more canopy in the parking lot that will be added to this but it is a little bit lower than we were carrying at PSR. I would say the total isn't lower some of the generated capacity has been which will hopefully have a beneficial effect on the overall cost. Thank you. And so that that that is what we are sending to the cost estimators today and then we will be discussing. As we mentioned, the numbers that we get back early in the year. I want to just add a follow up question on the PV panel and the canopies. When you give us a cost I noticed sometimes the line for that was a different number than the line I saw in the sustainability and it was just sometimes it had the design costs added on to it and sometimes it was just the direct costs. So we get that level just on breaking out. And I'm asking more on, on thinking of where there would be federal credits where there might be, you know, so not so much the total building but been able to see that array that you have to design it you have to buy the panels and you have to install it will we get all those pieces so we can see that package. There will be a detailed breakdown of the PV, much like all of the other systems in the building and since it is part of the project and not a separate contract to PPA. The same markups will be concluded like any other direct costs I don't know if Don or Ricky want to add to that. Yeah, so, so it will go in. We really don't want. So, it will be a line item or multiple line items but there'll be a section just for the solar Kathy. It will be part of the direct cost, and then all of the contractor markups design contingency, etc will be applied to all of the direct costs, we can pull that out separately for for the benefit, or give you those numbers for the benefit of any tax incentive that you're going after if that's your question. I guess my question and I guess my question it's a question Margaret keeps carrying at the bottom of our minutes that let's assume this is all ago, and, and you're now got the papers and you've got a project manager. Does the project manager have to take on all of the PV panels or could you contract at that point, since it's going to come later I mean the design has to be in your building, could it come later and it's, it's not a question I need answered now. It's just thinking about when we incur that expense, it, you know where it comes. Well, none of, we can't actually install them until the building is built in the parking lot is in but so said it's I don't need it all answer now but it's, it's breaking that out, potentially for the contracting that you're doing is. Yeah, I'm a week we could do it two ways, you know, circling back to the town of Lexington what what they've done for their recent couple of projects, non school projects is they obviously were carrying the cost they're owning the systems but what was, they hired a separate contractor, and so they bid the PV separately. The site contractor was respond to the, the, you know, the main project site contractor was responsible for the conduit and maybe foundations for the PV canopies and the parking lot so you need to coordinate it, but then another contractor came in after and and installed all of the PV. Yeah, yeah. There are options that we're going to. That was my question there's options. So, okay, that was exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you. Other. I'm looking at the screen or there are other questions on comments on all of this. Ben. That was an errant hand raised. Sorry. But, but did you want to ask what the floor of the gym is, because I, at least as far as I can see we're carrying wood right now correct. Yes, we are carrying wood. But that's the other question and Margaret I know this flows into when we get this back and are staring at the numbers. I heard Tim say quite quickly but you had alerted this to us in a recent agenda that there's a new code that has likely imposed some costs depending on how strong. So maybe you could say a few words about that code change in the uncertainty. Then the second was, as you, when we see this package coming back with us as numbers, will you also be showing us a list of. I don't like the call value management but anyway of potential areas if you wanted to lower the costs at this early stage that we will have some choices so we'll be getting a big package back on here's the current estimate and also should you look at this stage. And I'm, I'm partly asking, I'm PB I don't know on the origin of yours but I, I've shown, I've spoken publicly with the moving picture but also just snapshot. And there's been an overwhelmingly positive response people are thrilled with it. And the next question is, have you gone overboard on expenses is it to, is it, are you building a children's palace. People look at it and it's like it's so beautiful it must be crazy. Right, right, so I want to have make sure we have answers on a, you know, the materials choices we've had. So, so that that's the motivation for my question on what will we be seeing in January, and where will we have choices. So the first is the code change, and the second is the level at which we will be discussing this in January. I can respond to that code change first. The issue is that the way the energy consumption arts called the Teddy thermal energy demand intensity, which is going to be a requirement of the new code. And it's calculated by formula and model, and they haven't published the guidelines on how the models are constructed yet. That should be coming out actually at the end of this month and Thornton said as soon as they come out will be analyzing it. But since that procedure is not known yet. We don't know exactly what that procedure will yield based on presentations by poem and the do we are we believe what we are specifying will meet or is very close to meeting the new energy code, but we can't be certain without knowledge of how it will be calculated. And so that may require additional insulation. So that that part and then the other things that we are testing in terms of the envelope and energy performance are the different levels of glazing as modeled. We are right at the 25 UI, which is our target. And Thornton said he has already modeled a few of those and those will bring us down to 24.8 if they are extremely cost effective that might be worth it as we find schedules or buying building use. We may want that flexibility to make sure that we get that 25 UI, which is so important to the projects and it's financing. Yeah, and I just to clarify for the committee. So there is a change that the nugget to take away from this there is a change coming on that the first of the year that is still being, I would say pressure tested. So it's going to put that much higher change the energy code. It's going to put a lot of pressure on design teams like to nisco. And there is some indeterminacy right now about it. And so I think what's important to know is that they are doing their best to wrap their heads around and embed in the project costs what those requirements are. But if we bring this back to the committee at a later date to say there might, you know, good news bad news could go either way. There, there's processing this code hasn't been tested yet so indeterminacy around that issue is probably the best way to understand it. And Jonathan that must be hitting your projects to correct.  You know, typically there is what I'm going to call a concurrency period between codes, but this project is long enough and big enough that we're going to have to adapt to the new code, because we will never go out to bed during that that concurrency period. And, you know, just just for more context, this is a good thing, you know, the state as a whole is moving towards the goals that Amherst has sort of adopted already. They just may take some slightly different pathways, and they'll take a much longer time, you know, and another, I'd like to think 10 years. I think projects will be where Amherst is trying to be today. It's just the pathway to that and and how to demonstrate to the to the code officials at the time we go for a permit that we've met both our requirements to the town and the requirements that the state is looking for. And it requires a highly, as Tim was saying, a highly technical analysis to figure out whether you're getting there. So, any other questions on this piece and just so as my understanding is after this meeting you will be putting the final touches on this and then it goes to the cost estimators correct. That is correct. And the acronym for Teddy is thermal energy demand intensity, I believe. But what's the thermal. It's TDI. Yeah. Just for my know. It's not a teddy bear. They said they just thought that that would soften the crazy demand that this is going to require just sounded cute. Okay, so seeing none on this, Margaret, I think now we go to you for schedule. Yes, let's do it. Okay. So I'm going to sort of start at a bit of a high level and sort of drill down just to, you know, ground everybody in this, what we're talking about. So, this is going to be my funny little diagram. So this is kind of an overview. This is an overview of where we are right now so we're about to hit the first beginning of 2023, which is, I think we'll all agree freaking unbelievable. The town council has voted to have the public debt exclusion vote. May 2. I haven't even put in the MSBA vote, but it happens a few days before that on April 26. So what happens after that is, there is a period of detailed design. There is the bidding of the project and there is some construction documents. Sorry, construction. And then a period where the building is the furnishings are being installed, the existing building is being demolished, and then the school is open. And we hope for the fall of 2026. And when that school opens, then there is site work going on wrapping up at the end of 2026 to take the where the existing building was and sort of put all the final site work in place. So that's kind of the overview of this I'm going to get into now. Another level of detail. The reason I wanted you to see all of this is I am about to put a version of this up on the site visit on the on the website. So I just wanted you to sort of have a picture of this. And so let's look at the, the next, the next level down. So what it means for the committee is, and now we're really just picking up in May. So the, the vote has happened. Hopefully, the vote is in the affirmative for the project. And now this detailed design period happens. So in the public facing schedule, I'm just showing this as a detailed design period. In fact, it's actually broken down into several phases. There are several submissions to the MSBA that occur. We will not need need to meet as often we're targeting probably monthly meeting, maybe a couple of times it's going to be every three weeks. So, and it will be sort of following along with what we've done during the design development period, there's going to be an opportunity and the beginning of 60% cities there's going to be more in an opportunity for more community input, and we'll be having some more meetings to present some of the detail that's going to be embedded in the cost estimate. But we expect to be bidding the project in the summer of 2024. And I, Rick, I don't know if you can remember, I think this is an eight something like an 18 month construction schedule. So, now I'm going to pivot to what that means for the next month or two. I see Paul has joined us Paul, could you just make sure we can hear you. Yes. You're just in time for marking your calendar. Exactly. Okay, so I got the right screen up. Can everybody see if the pages of January, I can see it. Okay. So, I'm going to talk through the month of January and February for everybody. And I'm also once this meeting is over I will be updating your calendars to match this. So, we are at reach a point where we do not meet need to meet again in December, but in January this is what will happen so this cost estimate reconciliation that we talked about will be happening with the consultant teams. This is the very end of the first week of January. The following Tuesday, there's going to be a design presentation, a kind of high level design presentation to school committee, just to loop them in the budget numbers will be presented on Friday the 13th. Hopefully that's not a problem from the perspective of people who are superstitious but the following week. We are proposing that there be two community forums, one in the morning at 830 on the 18th one in the evening on the 19th at 630 so following the pattern that we did before and then those folks will. I mean, there's a lot to present of these forums there's talking about looking at the design helping people understand it and then obviously there's the money. The following Monday the 23rd. There is a presentation targeted to counsel on the project. And then I'm suggesting that the committee meet again on Friday the 27th to discuss the community input that's been received in those meetings. There is likely to be some further discussion of sort of final costs relative to alternates we may be looking for input on now that you've had a chance to understand some budget choices. You know, what action do you want to take on these Kathy I see your hand up. I just wanted Margaret. The 13th meeting. It sounds like that will be a fairly intense meeting. It should we potentially plan a more than a two hour meeting or does the flexibility of we can come back and continue the conversation on the 27th. I think that we can stick with two hours. I just because it feels like there's going to be a lot to discuss when we get the numbers back including some choices, the way Dinesco said about choices of materials choices of going one way or the other. And I see, I see Phoebe's hand is up also. That was my question. The answer to that is I think it would be good to book it for longer even if we don't need the time. Phoebe. So in terms of this timeline. How and when are we alerting people to the community forum. I think this is a really good opportunity for us to practice. You know, early and complete disclosure and really get people involved. And I'm recognizing that, you know, this is just a little bit over a month away and we have, you know, kind of a major holiday for a lot of people coming in the middle of this. When so when you guys are doing the cost estimate reconciliation the first week in January, when can we as the committee expect to see the information that comes back. Because if we have that one day on the 13th to really kind of have our questions or anything like that, ready to go and be answered before it goes to kind of the full community. I'd love to, I'd love to have some significant time to really attempt to go through a document that's clearly going to be substantial in depth and, you know, important. Okay, so let me take those questions separately so relative to the community. If these dates seem satisfactory the committee today. I'm going to ask Donna to have your, I'm blanking on your gentleman's name who made the flyers for us. Yeah, I just sent him a note. So he'll make a couple flyers for us and we can start, you know, sending them around putting them communicating them out to the community if those dates look good. So your second question about when you will get the materials. I mean I can promise you that you will see receive them by the 11th will certainly try to get them out sooner. I'm, I'm really reluctant to over commit, because I don't have a good sense right now of, you know, how much the level of complexity of what we want to present as recommended base project relative to the choices. If that makes sense. Yeah, I think. Okay, and I see Kathy's hand up. Yeah, Phoebe, I just wanted to, you know, we were testing these dates with I think we also Mike has double checked with Allison to make sure we're not meeting at a time when the school committee was meeting, but I, we were talking about actually if we jointly post them to have embers media coverage, and there's no reason with flyers that we also couldn't do a piece in the Gazette, you know, really trying to get the news out now and then repeat it again in January so we just wanted to make sure we had dates but I agree we're at we're at the 9th of December so if we want to let people know this is coming. And, and just so people know I've got, I've now done, I did one district meeting with a more complete set. I've been using the videos we've got to take it out to district and I want to continue to do that and I'm welcoming people doing that I've got kind of a not a written talk but I've got a kind of smooth talk with seven charts, you know, but two of the charts are these videos or three of them. So we're going to be trying to start doing that in January February as well so it won't be just the community forum where people can find out about it. And, and Margaret I just wanted to know we will have after the cost estimate reconciliation. Those giant files will be available. What you're saying will take the extra workers for Dennis go to package them in a way that it's possible for us to see them so you're saying that we should be able to get those by the 11th. I mean to me it's a translation piece again it's you're going from a highly technical process to something that is going to make sense as a sort of summer as a summary. And it's that piece that can take some time to kind of chew up and prioritize what is going to help people make clear decisions it's the translation piece. Yeah, if I if I could just also add. Wishful hoping thinking that we're going in the right direction I heard that we're going to have our gas prices might might hit below $3 a gallon by the end of the year so I'm going in that direction for all of my optimism. But, you know, depending on where we land with the cost of the project, it might also take us a day or two internally with Margaret, our estimators our consultants to also dig deeper if needed for all other alternative measures for alternates or substitutions to some of the costs and how we might be able to get those downs so so it will be very high level. I love the important information in detail behind it. But, again, just depending on where the numbers come in at Jonathan might has gone through this pain before as well that we might need another day or two if if all the cards align we reconcile, we're all in agreement. With the cost issues, we can issue it sooner. If we have to start looking at other creative ways, based on market conditions to provide options for the committee to make decisions on, then that might take another day or two. It may look like we have a whole week but but we really don't have a whole week so I just want to make that clear that our work doesn't stop on Friday the 6th. Yeah, exactly. And Phoebe one comment and then I want to. I see that. So, Phoebe to your question about, you know, could there be a further detailed discussion. Yes, I would say this, this Friday the 20th is an opportunity for an additional meeting if it's desired by the building committee and perhaps we should treat that as a place older. Jonathan, your thoughts. Yeah, I'm going to mostly kind of agree with what Don just spoke to. But, but maybe try to give it a little bit more context. You know, the, the market is not been a pleasant place the last few years and that's leaving it kind of mildly it's been it's been very hard to manage projects through this. But we need to, you know, our design team and their sub consultants understand what our, our budget is. And if the numbers start coming in at a place that we all don't like, we're going to have to lean on them pretty heavily to guide us through the series of choices we're going to need to make as a committee in a town to bring the project back into line. If it if it isn't there after that reconciliation process. And it's, you know, it's, it's a matter of balancing different needs. And they're going to have to look at the building as a whole system and then kind of look at the sub parts of that figure out what what can be adjusted what what items can be changed. And we really want to use their guidance to look at those those series of options, as opposed to, you know, looking at at a 60 to 60 page estimates and and try to pick out line items because that that's not how you get from, you know, the market saying you're over your budget to being back into your budget. So Phoebe your hand is still up or up again. Again, I just had another relatively quick question so this I'm trying to figure out if you're just letting us know that there's a proposed school committee meeting or if the plan was to potentially present this cost estimate to the school committee on that day. Before that gets answered Margaret briefly, I do like the idea of having a placeholder on the 20th. I am feeling as you guys can probably tell pretty strongly that we need to make sure that we're, we're really all very much on board to show that strength to the community, especially knowing that, you know, a few short months are asking our town to vote on a very, very substantial, very substantial thing that I think, you know, everybody is very much. Most people are very much in support of and most people are also very concerned about the financial aspect of it. So, I say that this is a proposed school committee meeting, because I don't think Allison has had a chance to go back this was, this is based on a conversation I had with Allison. But I think, and you'll see that there's another one proposed in the month of February. I do believe that we owe the school committee and update to help, you know, bring them along as supporters of the project so that's why it's, it's proposed it isn't. She's got to actually confirm that with her committee. So I get that's without cost right so. So this one is just talking about design of schedule. And then they will get a presentation in February which you'll see in just a minute that is about cost. I think that was the question they're not going to see cost because we see cost. Yes, that was the question. That one totally went past me. Alright, so let's talk about February. And I also just want to say, remembering back to why we were recommending that we move this all to March try to imagine if we were doing this all now, like that that was the reason for sort of, you know, going to this March 2 submission so now the numbers are out there. People are sort of chewing on them. This is, this is where on the 10th, we are proposing to bring you the entire schematic design package. So, like the packages you saw before, the cost is is a component it's very big component of this one, but there are other documents there are the final, the schematic design drawings. And then there are other applications. There's, there's quite a lot of other stuff so that is the date that we're proposing to bring you this for discussion. This would be the latest date for posting that material. The following Valentine's Day. It would be the date that the school committee would get an update on all of this. The 17th would be the date that you all would vote. If you were in agreement to authorize the submission of the schematic design to the MSBA. The following week is school vacation. And then the week after that March 2. That is the deadline for the submission of this document to the MSBA. Any questions about all of that. So, Margaret just on up. This time around we get this giant document, we get to see it, ask questions about it, make potentially any wording or what other changes. 10th we see it again on the 17th. And it looks like Dinesco has some time, unless they're all going away that vacation week. Some of them are. I know. I, but, but what I'm saying is that they can, they've got enough time to make sure we make that deadline and do you ever submit earlier is what I was going to say to, to extent that MSBA, the MSBA team in the past has got to have with some clarifying questions and stuff. And I just want to make sure we built in whatever. I'll call it the bureaucratic time, or the time that's amazed me that is time consuming, just interacting with questions so that, but that's, that's right. I mean, there's enough of a cushion here that we can do the final tweaks as needed and responding to any staff questions correct. Right. So let me make two comments about that. So the thing that isn't on here is typically the MSBA vote of board meeting is the day before a submission date. Right. So in terms of what the staff are doing. This is actually a board meeting date and everybody's like full at the MSBA is full tilt towards the board meeting. So we can submit earlier. And there's no reason that we won't but I will tell you, they will not look at it until the second, because that is when their staff is free to look. And just like the previous, the previous submissions, the first thing they do is they go through and do a check that it's complete. And so they say, where is this, where's that, can you point us to that they're, they have a checklist they go through. And that is their first internal step, and I would expect that would happen again they'll come back with a couple of, can you show a point us where this is or where that is and that will happen regardless. It just, I don't think we'll, they will not turn to it until March 2, no matter what we do. Okay. Kathy and just just to add to that. You know, so how long it's taken to get review comments back from the other two submissions, expect this one to maybe even be a little bit longer. Just just because of the amount of information that have to digest but also this is going to be part of your funding agreement right so they want to make sure that they've looked at everything. But, I think they're also probably going to get a very large number of submissions here because I think the December 28 date would have been really hard for most communities to meet. Yeah, probably. So it really will become a matter of staff availability and all of that. But yeah, the other component, maybe to your point Kathy, looking beyond February right in anticipation of the vote, is it April 26. Well the MSBA vote is April 26, April 26, and then the town, the debt exclusion vote is May 2. So looking forward to MSBA's approval of this sometime probably early April, we will have a meeting with MSBA maybe maybe April 15 or something I'm pulling a date out but meeting with them with the town to go through what they're going to agree to, as far as their reimbursement for the project so they do kind of a budget review meeting with the town, it would be you Kathy, I would assume Paul, Mike Morris, maybe a couple of others just to say okay just so everyone understands this is our interpretation of what we're doing to reimburse the town for. So there'll be a couple of conversations with them directly, almost independent of their review of the submission. Right. And I think Paul maybe went through that the last time. Sean, I'm guessing. So you've given us January and February you'll come back at the beginning of January with what March, March, April May look like. Yeah. Okay, because it looks like the big item will be off our desk in terms of what we need to do and then we're in this waiting period. But other than trying to get the word out so I did have. I have one question, Tim, I forgot to ask on the details and the cost on the outdoor, the same way we asked about furniture, the outdoor site in terms of playground equipment we also have that piece of. I'll call it rubber, but we have an all weather piece between two of the playgrounds and two questions one. Is that like what we have in Kendrick Park or graph park just a rubber surface and I think you said that's expense, expensive as opposed to grass or dirt. What we get is a PFAS free this has been an issue but the second is will we know what that cost has added to our budget on overall on the outside you know where we've got some things on our do we really want to do that is this a place to cut and I don't know how much money we're talking about on any of this so I'm not rounding down to the $10,000 level anymore. It is not artificial turf it is the same material that is right I'm not familiar with the parks that you're referencing but I assume it's the same it's a granulated rubber adhered surface. And there will be a line item for it in the cost estimate so I can't give you a cost right now but you will be able to see what it adds and it is more expensive than if we were just to do grass which I believe was a question that was asked last time. And Kathy I just want to point out you mentioned playground equipment. We will just have a budget number for the playground equipment. We will not have costs on on the equipment. So that to starts to occur to talk about what what what the playground start to look like afterwards but based on what we know of today's market and what's required for, you know, 575 kids to grade levels etc. So we believe that we're providing an appropriate allowance for that. So I see Mike's hand is up and then Sean also. I can, I can I'll remember mine Sean can go first. Mine's more of a just a heads up I believe in a few minutes so if you see me drop off that's that's why and and we do have one invoice but I'm sure Margaret can bring it up for approval so. Mike. You know, not to belabor the point but I think given all the conversation about cost estimating and what we has. It might be helpful if someone can do in a nutshell what happens after I mean you, I think a number of people have touched on it but what that process and how long that process is when you're making decisions about. I know one likes the term value engineering people can use a different term and I get that. But it might be helpful for the committee to know that it's not like the cost estimate comes back and it's done that it's still a dynamic discussion point I think there was a number of people touched on it but I, you know, just, I wonder if either Margaret or some of the disco folks can describe at a high level, sort of what looks like over the next, you know, you showed the map with design development on kind of stuff. What does that look like so that people, it might help people feel a little calmer if they knew the process that followed that. You know what that Mike that's a great point so let me just pull that back up and talk about it because you're right. The, what I didn't say in presenting this overall schedule is that there are estimate updates that are related to these steps. So it isn't like you do an estimate and then you know, what is this a year and a half later you bid it and cross your fingers at each step here, there is an estimate update. And I think that's your, your point Mike, the funding agreement gets signed. So the funding agreement with the MSBA gets signed in here, which is why this as we've all said before this getting the schematic design number right, and having some contingency embedded it is really important, because once you've signed a funding agreement, the MSBA will not provide additional funding beyond that funding agreement. We have the opportunity at these other points to look again at with the cost of the project and to make adjustments along the way, and that is a frequent occurrence. Mike of that I think is what you wanted to everybody to hear right. Good point. Mike, are there any other questions on either schedule. Because this is, we're not going to see each other again until after the new year. Well, we won't see there's some other some of you obviously frequently before then but so we have, we have one invoice, and then I want to, and then I want to open it up for public comments so Margaret, I think you can pull the invoice. Yes, I can. Okay, so the invoice is from Dennis go and with gratitude for their hard work so again I've highlighted because there's a lot of stuff on this page what it is they're asking for so they're they are now billing on the schematic design line. They are billing for their work, because there's some also some consultant work on following pages 33333 the number you've seen before there is $100,000 left in their fee that will get fully billed out by the time we're at the debt exclusion So they, their consultants are also billing a bit this month so there is some survey work I think this is around sort of getting the wetland boundaries set on traffic engineering services. And so in total. This is the total number of the bill for this month which is their their 33333 plus the consultant number for a total of 64652. So, does someone anyone have any questions want to make a motion. Can you accept the approve the invoice as presented. Is there a second, all second. And I need if you pull the screen down Margaret I can easily see people to call on them. That's great. Are there any questions on this. I guess the only question I have. I know you are have done work on wetlands and there's some more work to do is. Does all of that work get done before we submit to MSBA is that will we see this again as we go before concom, you know to get like we're, or does the concom come later on. So it's a sort of a, is there work done yet or and do we still have enough budget for them to do the rest of it. Are you saying Dennis goes or. No, no, you're you're subcontracted this out there out there doing the data during the whatever is needed for that going to. Yes, so. This is what's remaining to be. But there isn't. So, so back to Kathy's comment. What we found out was that the original survey, or wetland delineation that was done several years ago, did not include what what's called the lineation sheets to support some of the wetland boundaries so with that said, and speaking with Aaron jock, it was agreed that they will go out and they would do a couple of more, or they would, they would do some delineation sheets not at the really deep level that would normally have a company that would support but for the areas that we will be approaching. So yes Kathy, I need that cost from Horsley Whitten, now that we know the direction based on our conversation with Aaron, so there will be some added costs to what is already included and what's being shown right now but I don't think it's a lot it might be like three, three or $4,000. And then that will get us to what is already included as Margaret just showed was was the and rat. So this so for this will need just a little bit more money. Just to submit our and rat. And just what we didn't mention to everyone is, first, I really just want to say, we appreciate everyone's enthusiasm throughout the town about this project, and Aaron just cannot be more excited about how we're really going to make an improvement into the site and it really is an amazing town resource. That said, great to work with super accommodating gets it, not looking for the town spend any more money than absolutely needed, but we will be submitting the and rad. January, I think the and rad date. Tim correct me if I'm was it January 11 we were going to submit it. Correct. Yes. That was what Amy was targeting. Okay, yeah, January 25 conservation Commission hearing. Okay, it was just, yeah I didn't mean to get into that but that reminded me Margaret we might want to put that on the schedule as well. We will need a, we will need a project representative to appear. So, that would be great thank you Kathy. So we will be submitting the package to the conservation Commission. I think the deadline is somewhere around January 11. Right, but it's supposed to be three weeks and a best around the first of the year. Sorry to take the time around an invoice but. Now that's okay but yes there that we have a little bit more coming and it's my understanding Margaret that there is funds available within within the allocated amount now. So I am. I think we're proceeding to a vote so I'm going to call out names as I see them on my screen Rupert. Yes. Ben. Also yes. Tammy. Mike. Yes. Jonathan. Yes. Paul. Yes. Simone. Yes. Alicia. Yes. Phoebe. Yes. Yes. So it's unanimous with two absent. Sean has had to leave us Margaret and Allison. So any other questions, comments before I open it up to public comments. I'm not seeing any. We are now open for public comments. And I see one hand up.  Okay, I am Bruce. If you unmute, I've allowed you to talk. Can you hear me. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. I really appreciate Tim, Kathy, Vivian. Donna, the. The continuation of safeguarding and honoring the amount of daylight that's coming into the classrooms and the image there that I got a screen capture also that I can show. My children and my friends, I think we'll make everybody very happy. And I think the way in which you've achieved that 22 by strategically pruning other parts of the building where daylight is typically easy to put in, but is less necessary. It was well, well, it was well thought out and sound. So I continue to applaud the way you're going about that. And I've read through the bulk of the narrative systems narrative, and I do have some comments that and questions they're fairly minor, or, and so I'll handle that by email, which I send to Kathy and I think she sends them on as she judges appropriate. And finally, I recognize that the conversations around zero net energy building performance and so forth. Which was the subject of a committee deliberations, hopefully will continue I recognize that with the cost estimate and the reconciliation and the submission that that's probably not likely to happen until later in the spring and I think that's fine. I should say that through mutual friends. I've been talking or at least communicating with architectural teams for some of the successful exemplary zero net energy performance schools in Virginia. And there's some very interesting commentary and feedback, relative to what we're doing, particularly. Well, I, I, I, I, I've sent this on to Kathy she may share it or she may share it when she thinks it's appropriate. But this group in Virginia this architectural practice is a couple principles there have been very willing to engage in very specific technical conversations with me. And I hope to be able to leverage that productively and positively for the benefit of this project. I would like for the zero net energy conversations to continue so that I can feed that into a more specific portal and I think the whole of the committee at this point so I won't say any more on that other than that I'm. I will say that this, I started this because I was interested in understanding the plug loads and how they are managed in these achieving schools, because it's a lot of usually behavior associated with that and that's an unknown and many cases, but I've gleaned a lot I think of use so that effort I think will probably continue and but thank you for all you're doing. It's very encouraging and I applaud the results so far. Thank you. Thank you, Bruce. But Rudy, I think I allowed you to talk if you unmute. Did you just call on me Kathy I'm. Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. We can hear you. Yeah. Let me start my video. So, I, a couple of things. Overall, I wonder if it'd be possible to post that larger file broken into segments. I couldn't get a download of that without Google warning me that I couldn't do they couldn't be able to do a virus check the file was so large and or perhaps it could be hard copy could be made available in the library. So that's a request just so we can, everybody can review all the documents that you posted. I was surprised last time I thought we were going to have an agenda item on the CPA application at this meeting, maybe I missed a meeting where we. The last time Kathy had proposed delaying that discussion until the subsequent meeting. I'm disappointed if this was the only opportunity that that's not on the agenda. And I'm a bit surprised by the committee's reticence to advocate for that proposal given our worries about cost when that's an opportunity to possibly get an additional source of funding for the project. I do like Bruce have a number of I did a quick review of the narrative and have a number of points maybe like Bruce would be better to send you some detailed questions but a couple of ones that jumped out were the on subslab insulation reduced to a two foot wide perimeter. I'm just, I'm glad you're going to revisit that question or keeping the option open to up up the level of subslab insulation. I also noticed that the foam insulation varies throughout the, the different rooms and I couldn't, I couldn't in the walls and I couldn't figure out why that would be. And I want I didn't see offhand if there was going to be insulation in the elevator shaft. So I wonder if maybe I just missed it but maybe that's something to look at to for if you haven't already. And just a small point about the quarter and cafeteria floors being sheet marmalium instead of tiles I thought in the discussion at the design that several people raised from the school department as well as some of the members of the public that tiles are much more easy to repair and maintain and I wonder if there was a reason for the sheet marmalium and some, some of the spaces. Okay, let me and finally the energy specs on equipment. I didn't see any, there was some energy star mentioned in some of the appliances but I didn't see energy star energy specifications for particularly a lot of the kitchen equipment and I think maybe that needs to be revisited but I'm not allowed so I just look like there was manufacturers but I think that's a place we have to be looking at our big equipment for energy savings. Anywhere I'll try to send the rest by by email to the committee, but thanks a lot. Thank you booty.  I want to talk about the scheduling that you have engaged in and are proposing moving forward. This is once again doing something that's very problematic where you're giving the committee two days lead time to review a very large and very complex document that is extremely, it's critical to, to this project, and it's giving the public less than 24 hours and to, to be able to digest this and offer you input, it's impossible and like Rudy, I was not able to open this file. I am, you need feedback on this basis of design, and I'm hoping that members of the elementary school building committee will review this in detail and provide input I am hopeful that the public will provide input once they've gotten a chance to do this and I would really like to encourage you strenuously to schedule to add your meeting back in for next Friday so that you can discuss the input on this. And even if you have to send something preliminary today to the cost estimators, you can send an amended report after thoroughly discussing this and doing due diligence at this time. You know, in the, this committee has actually talked about getting a grid to look at for the different choices that you have to make and materials and so on, about sustainability, safety cost. To my knowledge, that has never been done and yet you're going out you've written you've got a basis of design that's going out without that discussion. In terms of your January schedule. This is once again a problem because you're again leaving yourselves. No time to review this document if you receive the the the reconciled cost estimate two days before you're going to discuss it and a day after this has been presented to the school committee meeting. That's not enough time I would encourage you strongly to push back those meetings the school committee and the community forum until you have a chance to properly digest the information that you are going to receive from the cost estimators or ask them to get that back to you earlier so you have time to do this. Again, for the submission on March 2. It seems to me that why would you schedule a meeting of the school building committee to authorize this then have a week of vacation and this does not have to go in till the week after. Give yourselves time schedule a meeting it doesn't have to be on a Friday you have to be flexible perhaps you should schedule a meeting the week of February 27. If you need to submit this on the second maybe schedule a meeting so that you can authorize it closer to that time so you guys have time to do your work. Thank you. Thank you Maria. Tony. You are with us. Oh, thank you this is Tony Cunningham. I haven't had a chance yet to review the basis of design so I don't have comments to offer on the detail at this time. I do have three questions I would like to ask of the committee and denisco. The first is, can you please share what is the total square footage of the area that will be improved for playing fields in the north of the site. Second is the rubber surface detailed in the basis of design for the playgrounds guaranteed to be free of PFAS. And if not, what safer alternate materials can be included in the basis of design that will be sent to the cost estimators. And lastly, what is the target budget for the project at this point. What is the not to exceed number. Thank you. Thank you Tony. Are there any final I've written down those and I do ask people to send any detailed comments I can see whether it's possible to host it. Tim in segments in chapters or not it would make it it certainly would make it easier for everyone to read if it wasn't one document but that's up to you. We can certainly do that. So are there any other comments or suggestions of the schedule as you saw what Margaret put up these were. We were bringing you these dates, and we will. We do agenda setting in between meetings to try to figure out what else serves to be done. So, if people have questions or suggestions about the schedule. I think it would be fine to go ahead and send them in and connect with us about that. I'm just looking around the screen. I don't see. So I'm not seeing any and I'm not seeing any hands up. We are not scheduled for another meeting until January, and we will be double checking on the various community forums nothing has been set up yet, including discussing with the school committee. And I just wanted to make it clear I think we had in response to Phoebe's. If that school committee meeting happens it's not going to be with cost estimates is just going to be the, the pictures we've seen of design that no one else has seen up to this point so it's a preview of the super exciting part before we have to figure out how to pay for it. So anything else from anyone in the committee. I don't see anything then I think we are adjourned at 1023. And we will be back to you as we finalize this and I also want to double check right now tentatively all of those meetings would start at 830 in the morning I want to make sure that works for people because it seems to be a good time and it allows us the flexibility to go longer if we need to on a couple of these meetings. So thank you every very, everyone very much, and have a good rest of your day.


I have been saying this for years with enthusiasm and people have not listened to me if you're only relying on a job, we need nothing more than the past year to prove to you that that is not a smart idea. And people just go along and they think, well, I have the job now, so I don't have to worry. And of course, none of us could have seen this pandemic coming, but we're never going to see the blacks want to end coming. We're never going to see the financial meltdown. We're never going to see that artificial intelligence that wipes our job out completely. We're never going to see when our company outsources our role overseas and our job is gone. So there's always going to be unexpected events. We have to prepare now. We have to adapt to change.


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