Hey guys, you are gonna love my latest interview for my podcast channel with a friend of mine called Ray Panthakie Ray is a BAFTA award-winning actor director based in London and we spoke about his craft as an actor His approach to parts in TV or movies the massive blockbuster Netflix series He's just filmed called away coming out very soon. He is a great guy and a brilliant guy You're gonna love this interview. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a comment. Thank you So let me ask you how did you Get into acting because it's a notorious a difficult career to Sustain yourself as you know, so how did you get into acting and why have you kind of stayed in it? The realization of why I got into acting is something that's come more recently Yeah, as I've got to understand myself a lot more as I've got older and I've worked on myself as a person And I started to realize that because I wasn't ever really quite sure why it was And as I've sort of worked, you know worked through it. I've realized it actually came from a place of wanting to be desired and I think I initially Went into it because I didn't Feel desired as a child or I didn't feel Uh, I felt different. I guess and that might be to do enough with a number of reasons Most notably my skin color perhaps but feeling different at school and feeling Different to the people around me in school and there was a boy in my class who was actually his blonde-haired blue-eyed boy who was who was an actor and he got lots of Through the acting that he was doing and And I remember just being very jealous of it And thinking to myself I can do that and I can get that attention and it came from that place really and uh And I remember going home one day and saying to my parents I was extremely shy as a child but remember saying to my parents that I wanted to get into acting and they said Fine we can try and do that for you, but you're really shy and you don't speak to anyone How are you going to do acting and I said I just really want to do it and so they uh phoned around local drama schools And one of them said tell Ray to come down this weekend and he can watch Until I did and I remember being extremely uncomfortable Sitting in this in this class full of extrovert kids And feeling really out of my depth and shy and awkward, but there was something about this particular drama school sort of um Uh, you would you would learn singing acting and dancing And uh the singing and dancing didn't interest me, but there was something about the acting just mesmerized me and drew me in and I guess That I it was it drew me in enough to to to stick it out and go through the uncomfort and uh And yeah, and it and it became it's just amazing how it became my calling in a weird way Because it didn't come from a place and knowing it was my calling. It came from a place that Probably from from some wound or trauma and it ended up being my calling so you interpreted that you use that as fuel to Proceed into acting You may be connecting the dots the dots better now Reflectively, but that moment on stage and moments like that when you saw the kid that was on stage And you thought I can do that too You have interpreted that or you did and used it as a fuel To step into that yourself. I think a lot of people Want to know why people got into what they got into Especially when they've been in it long term and successful And wonder if someone opened a door for you if it was who you know and what you know Especially in the sort of showbiz world But your beginnings were just flat out the same as any kid in a school play my experience today Yes Yes, there was I mean, I don't remember prior to being The age of 10 or 11 when I first Wanted to do it. I don't remember having a particular desire I was shy kid. So there was no I was I wasn't the kid that was naturally performing for for Parents and their friends at home. So I know that for sure but I do have this strong memory Of wanting to do what this this boy did in my in my class because I guess he got attention from girls And that and that ended up being my my fuel in in some sense because He was getting attention for what he did. He was on mcdonald's commercials and he was on television and There was a he he was treated in a different way. And so maybe It came from a place of wanting to be wanting to be treated differently But yeah, that's that's it if I had to round it up into one word. I would say it was to be desired You know tony robbins another speak about the six basic human needs one of them is significance and I think what you're describing may well be the awakening that some of us have That a primary human need we have in life is one of our top of those six is Significance, you know, there are others like certainty and variety and And growth and contribution love and connection But that sense of significance that woke up in you the possibility of that Totally makes sense to me when I think about other people That have moved into some significant career people in politics and business and showbiz often. I think the fuel Was significance though the experience that they had You wouldn't use that word for it and about it. I'm just framing it that way wondering if that won't field you and if so Does that continue to be your major fuel now or not? no At least I don't think so but my my My drive is a lot different now I guess my drive now is to It's less about significance significance for myself and it's more about um Putting good art into the world that can change the world as You know, I know a lot of people say that but it really did There has become a turning point for me where The realization of that and what made me happy and what makes me happy and what continues to fuel me Is no longer I guess there is an element about it for me, but the bigger element is for others So as that shifted the choices you make as to why you will or won't do certain things because If you are doing things based on that need for significance It may mean you make certain choices about what to do Different to if you're choosing something from a sense of service To the rest of us a lot of people in the world that are driven by that significance Make choices just to keep that alive and never switch from that to a wider sense of serving the rest of us So have your choices of the projects you're involved in changed because of that shift in you of what drives you Yes, they have but I think there's a balance because there's some projects that you know May not be of service to other people But you know they may offer you significance That gives you a step up to be able to be a stronger service to other people. So I think there's um There's a Balance to be had sometimes you have to be smart about making decisions and choices that you know further down the line will Give you more of a voice Or give you more of a platform to be able to make Choices other choices which can help serve other people so There's always a I always look at things For a number of reasons and anything that gets offered to me. I sort of balance it up for different reasons and sometimes that there's a less of a um Desire to do something but then it's a smart decision to do it because of what it could lead to Yeah, because I know you now Do different things besides acting you had a director's hat and a production hat Of the span of things that you now do as you're evolving Um Is acting still your first love or do you are you more drawn to directing behind the camera these days? Where do you think that's heading for you? uh acting To be a question that people often ask me and I have I get so so my my Journey into storytelling writing direction and producing that came from a place of Not being fulfilled enough as an actor or not getting the opportunities within the industry as an actor So I decided that i'm going to go and create those opportunities for myself So people can can see that I can be a leading actor if they're not going to give me the opportunity to be a leading actor and so rather than sort of Uh campaign against it. I went I'm not going to waste that time. I'm just going to put my head down and work and show and create and so that's what I did and so Again, I was it came from a place of Needing something else But I just decided to jump in and do it myself And that and what I learned from that was Actually, I am a storyteller And it's amazing how again I was pushed into it somehow And from that I realized Storytelling is my passion And I realized I could be in control of the whole story suddenly rather than be just a piece of the jigsaw of the story as an actor And also it enabled me to focus on something as an actor Everything is so up in the air. There's no stability You're often waiting months for jobs And so what it enabled me to do was to almost focus on something which I called my nine to five so if I wasn't acting Instead of sitting at home being depressed waiting for the phone to ring I'd be focusing on something like a nine to five in front of my laptop writing teaching myself how to produce and studying and so What's to answer your question Acting it has been such a big part of my life. Yes, it probably still is my number one love But also I think it's on par with directing because to take the four of them writing acting producing and directing I think acting and directing are the two that sort of Are on an equal footing at the moment They fulfill me in different ways. I still feel as an actor. I've got performances in me That need to come out that I need to give and I need to share with the world And I don't think I've been fully pushed as an actor just yet But as a director when I stepped on to set as a director for the first time in my life I'd never directed anything before obviously it was the first time I went into it with very limited Tools we had very little money very little time But I had a story that was so personal to me that I wanted to share with the world That I knew I didn't want anyone else to tell this story. So I stepped on set as a director And it was literally like It was a calling I knew in that moment the second I stepped on set Because suddenly I didn't have to care about the way I looked. I didn't have to care about remembering my lines I didn't have to care about all about all these things that used to be baggage for me as an actor But I I stepped on as a director and I realized I'm in control here complete control and I can do this and it was just it was It was weird. I've had these moments a few times in my life where I've gone And it happened to me as an actor on stage when I was younger As when I was a teenager and that made me realize I need to do this as a career and it happened to me My first time on set as a director and I had this moment It's a Tiffany which was this is a calling of yours as well So acting and directing for a very long-winded answer to your question Are the two things the stories that you are telling and are drawn to Is there something common about them? What are the stories you want to tell? What are the stories that matter the most to you? Is there a thread in those through your life and things you're drawn to? Yeah I guess there is again as I work on myself more as a person I start to realize that every character I've ever written is a little bit of me somewhere along the line and And it took me years to Have that revelation I guess There are common threads Um of stories I do want to tell it's always tends to be people on the fringe of society There's certain themes that seem to keep coming up in my work Think loneliness is something that is is is sitting with me at the moment and a lot of the characters I'm writing Especially during this pandemic interestingly enough, but um, that's that's a theme It's always been about the underdog, I guess Right and and the and the softer people of society the meeker and quieter people And I think I feel like they seem to be the characters That naturally come out of me and so I think it's a calling for me to want to be able to tell those stories Do you think that's rooted in your sense of exclusion as a kid that you talked about earlier? That sense of champion those people Yeah, I've not I've not gone that deep into it, but quite possibly yes quite possibly but also If it could be that it could also be that I have a heart for the That the softer people in society the meek people in society and and the ones that don't have a voice or struggle struggle to have a voice, I guess and I my work seems to Try and give those people a voice Do you have you struggled? Do you still struggle people would want to know? I think at your age and stage of career with What would you call a stage fright in the You know if you're doing a live play or imposter syndrome, we might say if you get apart and think jeez Um, I said I'd do it, but I don't if I can pull it off or not because a lot of people Struggle with that and interpret it as a reason not to go ahead Yeah Absolutely every single time that never goes away the idea of imposter syndrome, which certainly doesn't for me It's always there Stage fright is always there for me Not so much on uh on camera actually because I think there's a there's a comfort of knowing you can do it again and again, right? Certainly in theater It's something that never goes the nerves never go away. I could be doing a play for a hundred nights and my uh Fear will be the same on night one as it is on night a hundred. It's it's the same but again I don't ever want to lose that in some respects. I don't want to become complacent and that Fear I guess I like stepping into fear. So that kind of pushes me To get out on that stage. I mean, it's a sickly horrible feeling before you step on It really is and I'm always pacing up and down backstage and people are trying to talk to me And I cannot talk to them because I'm just focusing on these nerves and then of course when you step out And the five minutes of being on stage or within getting your first laugh if it's a comedy you'll just suddenly You relax and then you just enjoy the process and then you can never get me off there Then I don't at that point.  But uh Yeah, I the nerves always hit me and imposter syndrome will be something that I guess I you have to get used to Certainly for me. Um, there's I feel it pretty much pretty much on every single job You know, I feel very blessed to to do something to do first of all to do what I love doing my job And uh to get to travel and do all these amazing things one of the things I think creative people struggle with Um is what I call babysitting their creativity in other words after you've done it and published it or posted it or Put out the piece of work you've done Then you sit around almost in the shadows hoping people will like it And then you get upset or touchy or defensive if someone says something critical Because you've stayed over attached to the product. I think, you know, I've written several books And I wish I could go back and rewrite them all a year later because I now think something different to what I thought a year ago But it's too late. And once of course On film it's over. You can't go back and redo it So I suppose what I mean is do you get attached to projects? Are you do you read what the critics say does that bother you or do you just move on think that's it? I can't change it and sort of step away from it I find it difficult. I Especially if it's something that I've created Um You keep wanting to perfect it keep wanting to make it better before it goes out to the world You wanted to make it the best you can make it And then I had to learn to realize that Nothing can be perfect and I read a quote from I think it might have been george lucas. I could be wrong but He said something along the lines of You never finish a film You you learn to abandon it And that was That was real It coming from someone like that. It was an eye opener for me because you Do never finish a movie. You can keep perfecting something or trying to make it better But there has to be a point where you abandon it and let it out to the world And uh, I always struggle with that. I guess it's again. It's that fear of being Rejected I suppose but my art I especially a few years back I used to always keep it close to my chest And be scared to put it out to the world or scared to Push for the final furlong of a of a of a script that I'd written I guess through fear of of rejection Of my art, but actually when I started to realize Just let it out and then people started to appreciate it And and I was and then I sat back and said why did I hold on to this for so long? I'm always critical doubtful self-doubt But then I realized it's always Or mostly in my own head head once the project goes out to the world because people Generally do appreciate it Do you think you'd feel more attached to as a director or as an actor and even worse if you are both in A project because some a lot of actors act and direct at the same time. So it really is your baby in every way then Yes, I think as a director I'd be I mean, I've not directed myself yet As an actor so and I don't think that's something I'll be rushing to do quite soon, but I I certainly as a director because I write and direct so it's much more personal to me right and so Yes, and There's always going to be facets within stories that are personal to me. So Yeah, I am precious about that and I am fearful about sharing that stuff with the world, but also at the same time. I think It makes the best art Yes, yeah, I get that. What are some of the most difficult emotions to Act do you feel like if you get a script and it involves a certain scene? Do you think oh crikey? That is going to be tough. I'm going to have to really get in the zone to express that kind of anger or pain or rage or hate if the scene requires you and your character to To inhabit a certain emotion are there some that you dread coming up in a Opportunity for you that you find particularly difficult and how do you approach it? If it's not an emotion that's native to you That is not common to your experience as a human, but you have to find that energy to act it well I mean every actor uses different different techniques To be able to get to a place um I feel that everyone's had experiences of similar emotions. So they may not have lost A Apparent or someone close to them But they may be able to recall an emotion of having lost something as a child may be a toy or something But you are able to recall an emotion And work from that basis of that feeling of loss and what it felt like So I think there's always something that you can pull from other times you would have to study and try and Find other people's experiences that have been through certain things and try and Learn and recreate as much their experience as possible from what you've learned from them But I think in terms of we can all connect A emotion pretty much to every emotion that you have to be able to deliver Within a film Even if it's a loose connection, but we can build from that So I've nothing sort of scares me Really as Especially now in my career where I'm feeling very confident as an actor and what I'm Able to do and achieve It's actually the more challenging stuff I get the more it excites me and the the the more Roles I get where the more research needs to be done that excites me Taking a character That I perhaps haven't had the same experiences of Yeah, and I have to build this character through research Is something that um challenges me and something that I'm more interested in doing now Because I know you weren't a violent character in gangs of london, but it was a violent show What do you feel about movies programs? Of which that's a major theme and around the energy. I wonder how actors Stay in that zone If it's a prolonged project that involved it if that character is An aggressive violent person or so on so on or their characters are racist or their character is a drug addict or something Or a criminal and it's not common to your experience. In other words, your life experience has nothing to hand you In a certain role. Where do you guys find it from? I mean we we can talk about these transformative roles that People have done and I guess it comes from studying it comes from studying and talking to people There are a lot of actors that are method actors that like to sort of Live it as much as they can a certain role and will be in character leading up to the production of a film And obviously there's always lines that need to be drawn and you know lines that can't be crossed But certainly they will get into the mindset of a certain character and Live that character before they're getting set so they feel very prepared Is method acting something that you taught at acting school as an option as a style? And if it is Why would some people choose that as opposed to another style of acting like is method acting? Is that good acting is that something? Well, I think there's so many different Techniques to acting and I think what you have to find the style that suits you best I mean, I've dabbled with all different types of styles of acting method was something that interested me years ago and I did certain things that were method-based and then There are others that I mean, but I also at the same time I can go and set having prepared In the method technique for a role But I can switch it off at the end of the day Okay. Yeah some actors can't and some actors Consume their cells with that with the character and will still almost be in character months after the film was wrapped production and almost Need some sort of Therapy to sort of come out of the character that they've got so involved with um, I Fortunately have not Ever had that issue and I'm able to sort of switch off at the end of the day and step away from it and then Get myself back into the zone for the next day Who have been some of your acting role models really like who would be your Favorite actors are the past or present? I think um Marlon Brando is a favorite. Why a lot of people say that about Brando. Was he a method actor? He was and for me, I felt that he Changed the game in screen acting So he sort of came at a time where he brought he was part of this new wave of actor that was bringing a A new shift in the acting style of screen acting where it was all steeped in naturalism and truth and in those days The acting was sort of heightened and slightly overacting and uh, Brando just Came in and bought this new energy was part of that new wave of actor bringing this new naturalism and truth to just screen acting And so he changed the game. I feel and so he is someone that I'm constantly Learning from and mesmerized by Because I heard Michael I heard Michael Cain once say about acting That he felt the best actors behaved They didn't act. Is that what you mean by Brando? Yes, I just feel that he was He was unpredictable and present and he's so in it. I mean they say that Acting is the best acting is when you're listening So you're so in the moment. You're so present that you're not worried about Where you are what you're doing what you look like or what your next line is But you are so present that you are absolutely 100 focused on the person that you're acting with And so they can say anything but you're so present that you're responding to what they say Um, we're still keeping the integrity of your character Brando He was completely present and immersed on screen There's there's a wonderful scene I think it's uh on the wall from perhaps There's a scene if you can YouTube it where he uh It's the if you just type in the brando glove scene right and he's he's in the moment acting and uh Talking it's him And another character talking and he drops a glove completely It happened in the moment and uh He keeps continuing he picks this glove up and the way he plays with this glove during the scene Which obviously had to be completely spontaneous and he just and what he does with this glove and uses it within the scene is amazing And it's sort of just this Filmmaking magic acting magic, which was just he was just so present in the zone That he uh, it's worth watching. I think for someone again I heard michael cayne. I think referred to that as use He talked about using the difficulty So he was on a movie. He said and the scene involved him Barge into the kitchen and other than a violent exchange with this woman in the kitchen so he The director says action. He pushes the door, but the door didn't open properly It jammed a little bit So michael cayne stopped and you know cursed a few words about the door And then the director said to him look michael if the door jammed Use that difficulty and act off it the dropped glove. I suppose Use the difficulty and let it be part of the scene rather than say the door didn't work perfectly So I can't act at the moment. I think that's what you're saying about using the difficulty to enhance your performance Rather than see it as a reason why I count for which honestly is a probably a right life principle Hey, we're all using the difficulty right now in the pandemic Yeah, absolutely. And it's real life, you know, nothing goes smoothly Things go wrong things happen in the moment and you have to deal with them And so that to me so he brought a real truth and naturalism to to screen acting So he definitely is an inspiration and also who he was as a person I love the fact that he was constantly Prepared to put his career on the line for things that he believed in and Advocate for So yes, moll and brando. There's other people meryl streep who is just consistently brilliant in everything Mark rylance is a huge inspiration of mine and I love him, you know, yes and and his uh integrity as an actor I love the fact that you know As rumor has it that mark rylance will go through a A movie script before he starts and he'll uh, he'll just be crossing outlines and people will be like what you're doing He's like, I can do that with a look. I can do that with a look. I don't want to say that I can do that with a look and so I just find, you know Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, just found him interesting as a person as a As a as an actor. I find his choices fascinating. I love the fact that he Turned down movies for years and years and not just small movies You know spielberg was chasing him for years as an actor and he was just like no, I want to be in the theater That's where my heart is And so I respect him as an actor and he's an amazing man as well as fortunate to meet him he's an amazing man and uh uh, who else Shia LaBeouf Which is always a controversial one and people often Say to me really Shia LaBeouf. He's one of your favorite actors and I say yeah, because I think there's a There's a there's a truth to everything he does I find him completely mesmerizing and as an actor I watch him and I think there's such truth in everything he does And I think it comes from a place of pain so I think there is Something in his eyes that can't be recreated and I find him really present And exciting and I find his choices exciting. So yeah sort of as a Younger actor, I'd say Shia LaBeouf Tom Hanks Great actor great actor. There's so many great actors. Things could go on forever. I know There's so many greats and the good thing is I feel like The true greats, you know that we all know their names and and uh, and I like to believe Maybe it's not always true, but I like to believe that the good always rise to the top in the end Do you watch yourself? Interesting question When you've done a project, would you go back and watch it? I do watch myself. Oh no You do? I do watch myself, but only because There's a 5% chance it's gonna make me feel good so So It's weird There's 95% of the time I'll watch something. I'm in and I'll be disappointed frustrated annoyed with myself Thought I could have done better thought I could have done this thought I could have done that And so actually the odds are always stacked against me by watching myself I should be one of those actors that doesn't watch himself, but I do it For that 5% chance of going that's made me feel good today because that Was a good bit of acting or I was happy with that So yeah, I shouldn't watch myself, but I do just to get the chance of myself feeling good But yeah, I'm very critical of what I do. I don't think that will ever go away now. I've come to Make my peace with that. I see Very different to what other people are seeing and uh, and I'm a perfectionist I guess and I just want to be the best I can and I'll always be disappointed and feel I can do better But it's all things that I'm noticing and probably no one else is Did winning the BAFTA change your career and if so, how? Yeah, so I got named as one of these BAFTA breakthrough Brits Brits back in 2014 And um, it was in the early days of this scheme or award and uh, recognition I should say and um That came in a really beautiful time in my career Because I it was at a time where I felt I kept hitting the glass ceiling I was Incredibly frustrated knew I had So much to give as an actor and artist but kept feeling that I was Hitting at a certain point. I couldn't go beyond right and then out of the blue I get a phone call one day from BAFTA to say um You know, we've decided to name you as one of our I think it was there was 14 or 15 of us at the time One of our BAFTA breakthrough Brits and that was this a really prestigious thing and um, I literally was floored because You know, you have got the suddenly got the biggest film establishment in Country and one of the biggest in the world suddenly just going we're aware Of all your work everything you're doing. We're aware of it and we want to help support that And it was it was one of the really real special times in my career I remember going home To my dad actually they told me they said you can't tell anyone this news You really can't tell anyone because we're going to announce these in six months But I remember going back to visit my dad and I couldn't really contain myself Telling me he's been such a supporter of me and my career And I remember saying and he's been there through all the trials and tribulations and I remember going back and saying dad. I've got some news. I got a phone call And they're going to name me as a BAFTA breakthrough Brit And I remember him breaking down into tears and it was a really special moment because It was just uh, you know, he's been there through everything, you know being an actor is not an easy life It's constantly up and down Right and I've had my fair share of those ups and downs and I've always stopped You know pushed through them You know, and I've made sacrifices and my family have made sacrifices for me But I've made sacrifices Which I've been so focused where people have been saying to well, why don't you just do this job? Like you're being offered it and it's paying you this money And and I'd be like that's not where I want to go in my acting career I know where I want to go and so I'd rather sleep on people's sofas and floors And sell my car and do all these things to not do that job because I know It's not in my long-term plan of where I need to go as an actor and an artist And so I made many many sacrifices in my career And I think my dad was witness to that and and he was supportive of that all the way And you know the times I would go to him and borrow A few quid just to be able to get on the train so I could get to an audition and uh And so yeah, so he that was a really special and magical moment telling him that Um Because no matter who you are you sort of understand the importance of bastard I think he understood the importance of that and I just said This is what it means And uh, he broke down in tears and it was very special really really special And um, yeah, that helped me that helped me and I helped open doors that were Firmly closed or doors that I couldn't open and then suddenly I mean, I'm still the same actor. I'm still the same artist. I'm still the same person But we know how the world works and we know how these industries work and suddenly having that feel of approval Enabled me to open certain doors and I fully credit it. We've taken my career to the next level What has been your attitude to fame re you're around a lot of famous people In the various projects you do and I suppose they have a certain relationship with fame And have come to peace with the old issue of fame or don't handle it well as many people in the spotlight don't Have you decided early on? This is how it will be In terms of any exposure. I have any level of fame. I attain to what should become your relationship and attitude towards fame in the industry Very different to what it was in the early days. I guess I'm fortunate enough to have been acting from a young age And to have had roles that were significant enough to offer attention and I think Probably what it was thinking back to when I was in my early 20s There was there is an uh an attraction to it I guess and it was but my attitude changed changed pretty early on Pretty early on of achieving recognition um not so much for What I was doing as an actor but for being on television and for being in people's homes X amount of times a week I realized early on that it's Not as enjoyable. I'm far too paranoid of a person shy and awkward of a person to be fully comfortable with it um And I'm glad I'm glad I realized it early on. I'm glad that It wasn't all the bells and whistles that everyone expects it to be and I had the realization of that of course some people Aim for a career in my industry to For that sole purpose of just becoming famous for me it it I know it's a a knock-on effect of successful work and I And I don't think I'll ever be at peace with it I'm quite a private person and so I don't think I and and and and I said as I say it's shy and awkward so I'll never be fully comfortable with it but my attitude has changed because I know that with Fain if we want to call it that or success which I'd rather call it but with that become comes a voice and If it gives me a voice Then I will have to I would deal with my uncomfort with it to have that voice and uh Yeah, it's interesting because it was only again in the last few years where I realized, you know I've just been driven and ambitious and I know where I've wanted to head as as an actor and artist however As I've gone through my own spiritual journey in the last few years I've worked out that It was never about Winning the Oscar or Achieving recognition. It was never been about that. I thought it was about that and it was never about that It was always about me being given a platform to Change People's views on things or change the world in a certain way through my art and uh, and that's what it's become about and whether It's only through my art or whether my art just gives me the platform to give me the voice to change the world in other ways I hate saying change the world change the world But that's the way it feels since I've worked on on my spiritual journey. It feels like There's a significant calling in in what I'm supposed to do with my life and uh and I've I'm not very good at articulating myself, but it's this is merely the The acting the filmmaking the storytelling is merely the I have to achieve and so in answer to your question, I feel like the fame the success the career Gives me a voice and it's That voice is My ultimate calling and what I've got to use it for is more important as as a person of color.  Are you optimistic generally about Where this is heading in society? I've been optimistic so many times. Yeah, and I felt let down. Yeah So Does it feel different this time? Yes am I Sure, it will bring about change. I don't know is the honest answer I don't know But I'm sure gonna stand by and and support the cause absolutely because I don't know. It's been very upsetting for me these last couple of weeks to to witness what's been going on and uh, and actually to Try and fully understand the pain of what my black friends have gone through and uh It's been truly eye-opening because I thought I understood the pain. I didn't and um Hopefully by the time this interview Comes out There will be have been some significant changes to the world um hopeful that I've been let down before that's just yeah Yeah, let me ask you last few minutes. Just want to ask you about yourself. How you look after yourself in all that you've got on All the attention that you have on everything you're doing Obviously lockdown has made us all a bit more stationary a bit more still opportunity to be more still inside A more thoughtful about personal development about growing ourselves What do you do or what new things have you begun to do during the lockdown in terms of Been healthy internally I guess trying to I mean I haven't because generally I've been unhealthy during this lockdown Thinking too much eating too much. Um Yeah, but I uh, I try and take some time out I I I have gone for longer walks and and uh, I've meditated on those walks and And You know just tried to because my brain does go to Crazy wild places. I guess that again, it's having that storyteller's brain He sometimes can't shut it up and uh You may you make up stories in your own head um But yeah, so I've I've um I've uh been trying to Quiet quiet and myself Taking these long walks putting in the ear pods and just uh meditating focusing Trying to stay spiritual and and focused on that side of things And uh, yeah, I guess that's I mean, there's been some huge trials and tribulations during this time sort of mentally for me um But I take those moments out and I've learned to I think before I used to cover up dealing with those moments by just working very very hard So just silence my mind by working hard hard hard and I think what shifted in me in the last few years, which again is all part of the whole journey is um I've learned to sit in those moments to be quiet To allow those thoughts to come in Um and to deal with them and it's been I guess there's no coincidence that Things have progressed in my career That glass ceiling is finally breaking down um Because I think it's aligned with my spiritual health Ray, how can the people listening find you? What what will we see you in next what projects have you got coming out what you work in run, etc? uh Acting wise, um, we've got season three of marchella, which uh Is out soon On netflix and then for uk audiences. It will be out in the autumn then I've got this netflix project called away Which is an exciting project and that will be out in september, I believe um A couple of films coming out a brilliant film called boiling point with steven graham That will be out Probably early next year sometime And uh just uh focusing on lots of um my I've taken it i'm taking a bit of time out Now to just focus on uh my own projects that i'm developing and uh Projects that i'll be directing so yeah Very cool writing Yes. Yeah. Yeah Very cool. Well, listen, I want to say a massive thank you to you for your time I think you're a genius and a great human Even more so and it's been a joy to know you I remember you coming to my master class in london And we've had a good relationship afloat ever since then And uh, I've really come to appreciate the craft of what you do or what your industry is Through knowing you more than I ever did before I want to thank you for your time that you've given to me and our listeners Around this whole issue of your career and what you do are putting us into your shoes for a few minutes today. Thank you my friend I wish you well We'll keep in touch Thanks pa Well, thanks again for listening to today's podcast. I hope we found it beneficial And I know time is precious commodity for us all but I would love if you would take the time to Write a review or comment and above all maybe subscribe to my podcast channel. Thank you


Mr. Chairman, Honorable Ministers, distinguished delegates, allow me to begin by thanking the people and the government of the host country. The United Arab Emirates for hosting this important event and for their kind hospitality. We are delighted and proud for the achievements of the most advanced economies and affluent societies. We also believe that specific and meaningful measures of solidarity and cooperation by high income and highly advanced countries are urgently needed for connecting, remote and underserved communities around the world. In doing so, the ITU in general and the ITUD in particular should play a more prominent role, distinguished delegates. The government of the Islamic Republic of Iran fully recognizes the key role that broadband ICT plays in the sustainable development of the nation in all aspects. We are committed to expanding our existing infrastructure in a speedy manner so that broadband ICT can be made available across the nation. In doing so, our emphasis is in to expand ingenious capabilities through innovative public-private partnerships. Mr. Chairman, while recognizing the need for the careful review of the accomplishment of the WSIS, we strongly recommend the continued implementation of WSIS action, items and requests. The ITU Secretary General to carry out consultation with a view to ensuring that the concerns of all stakeholders are taken into account. Finally, the Islamic Republic of Iran has contributed to the activities of the ITU and regional organization such as the APT and will continue to do so in the future in order to enhance such sensor cooperation. Iran is a candidate for the ITU Council and RRB in the forthcoming ITU's transitionary conference and I seek your support. I thank you for your attention. Thank you very much.


th care experience people, that lack of support in terms of the transitions leads many to end up living in situations of poverty, continued inequality. Even if there have been those interventions throughout childhood, they have come from a family where there is disadvantage. They could end up back in that exact situation in their own adulthood. As we were saying earlier, these are people who are going to have their own families, who will have their own children and should also have access to all the things that we want as adults to thrive and feel supported to live healthy lives throughout our lifetimes. I have covered so many things there but when we talk about transitions, it is very much thinking about the system as it already exists for care and protection. I think that we need to rethink how we support people across lifetimes with care experience. Thank you, Lucy. Thank you for covering all those things, because we have just gone over time. I apologise to Paul, but I cannot come back to you because we have got two more items. I want to thank all our panellists again for the comprehensive evidence that they have given us. Of course, if there is anything after today, I wish I had mentioned this. I wish I had flagged this up. Please email the committee and we will take that into account. We will break for five minutes while we allow our witnesses to transfer over. Our third item today is an evidence session on the provisional common framework on public health protection and health security. I welcome to the committee Humza Yousaf, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, who is joined by Ellen McRady, sexual health and blood-borne virus and infectious disease team leaders of the Scottish Government. I want to ask—obviously, we have got the backdrop of the response to the pandemic in which the framework was not in place. I think that a lot of us want to know whether the framework would have made any difference to the Scottish Government's ability to respond in the way that it did. Is there still room for a differentiated response in public health threats by the Scottish Government in the future as a result of that common framework? First of all, good morning, convener, to you and all committee members, and I hope that you are all being safe and keeping well. You are straight in with the tough question, and I am not surprised that you are asking it. I think that that is a key question. If I take the questions in the order that you asked them, it is difficult to answer. If the framework was in place at the outset of Covid, would it have significantly changed the response of the four nations? I suspect not, because the data sharing has always evolved as we have gone through the pandemic, but the data sharing with the UK Government, certainly, I have to say, my time as health secretary, but I know that Cabinet, of course, in a different role at the beginning of the pandemic, the data sharing has been good. The collaboration on a four nations basis has been good in terms of response to the pandemic. There are times when it has been of concern and we have raised those, focalised those and articulated those, sometimes in private, sometimes quite publicly, and that is well understood. On the whole, I think that four nations collaboration on those matters and the sharing of information has been good. That being said, that does not mean that it will always be us. Therefore, for the future, whether it is the pandemic, which has still got to run its course, or indeed for any goodness forbid future public health threat, it is important to have this framework underpinning the principles of that collaboration. The second part of your question is equally an important one. Let me stress that the framework, although it has those overarching principles, it does not stop any of the four nations acting in a differentiated way, if it wishes. The framework, in essence, is policy neutral, so it does not stop the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government nor the Irish or, indeed, of course, the UK Government taking decisions that are divergent to other home nations. That is very helpful. Thanks for outlining that. I am going to move on to questions from Gillian Mackay on the role of Parliament and, indeed, this committee. Gillian Mackay. Thank you, convener. Cabinet Secretary, will implementation of the framework impact on parliamentary scrutiny and decision making in this policy area? If so, what impact do you think it will have? I certainly expect that Parliament would have no less of a role than it did in the previous system. It is absolutely open, I should say, from a Scottish Government perspective, that we are possible if that role could be enhanced. I suspect that that will only become clear, or more clear, as the framework becomes embedded in our public health infrastructure. For example, there is a review period that is built into the framework, and it may be that that provides quite a good opportunity or quite a good hook for Parliament to consider its operation and whether it is delivering as well as we hope it would. Those are the ultimate questions for Parliament, as I should say, as opposed to to the Government. However, if Parliament wanted further scrutiny and thought that that review point was the correct point by which to invite myself and self-secretary and my officials wanted to undertake a more detailed review, or, indeed, scrutinise, for example, work plans. I am really open to any role that Parliament wishes to have, because it is such an important agenda and issue. Thank you. That is everything from me, convener. In relation to international relations, I have questions from Paul O'Kane. Thank you, convener, and good morning to the cabinet secretary. My first question in this area is whether the Scottish Government is comfortable that the common framework will provide sufficient opportunity for it to provide input to any future negotiations or, indeed, for filming of international obligations in the area? Is the cabinet secretary's comment on that? For international obligations and any future negotiations in relation to that, the framework does not alter the devolved settlement at all, but it does not alter at all the devolved settlement. That is probably important. Paul O'Kane and I will have different views on whether Scotland should have more of a role or its own role in relation to international treaties, international engagements and international obligations, I should say, but it is notwithstanding those differences and we will pack those for a minute. It does not alter the devolved settlement, so the UK's fulfilment of international obligations are largely, not exclusively entirely, but largely reserved matters. Where we have a distinct, where we have a legitimate devolved interest in reserved matters, I do believe that the framework provides us with a useful set of tools that gives us a great chance of influencing negotiations. The process thus far in the framework has been really engaging. When it comes to engagement with the EU in terms of the MOU that the UK has signed with the EU in relation to, for example, the ECDC, Scotland has had the ability to represent that, so that is positive. Ultimately, I cannot promise you that there will always be alignment between what the Scottish Government or the Scottish Parliament wants in relation to international obligations and what the UK Government would end up doing. Ultimately, the framework does not alter that significantly. I suppose that following on from that, I know that I have asked the cabinet secretary about that before in other areas of the work, but essentially dispute resolution. When there is a difference of opinion, I know that he will use his good nature and strong relationships to try and find that way through in relation to the Scottish Parliament's position or Scotland's position on an issue. Is it his view that there is a robust resolution procedure that we would be able to use and would that be invoked more readily, or does he have concerns—I am sure that he does—about lateral decision making? Does he have a confidence that there is that procedure in place? Paul Kim will know that, if there is a chance for me to put on record my concern about the approach that the UK Government is taking, I would not be shy in doing so. I will do that regularly and rightly. My job is to stand up for the interests of the people of Scotland. I should say equally where things are working well. I am not shy or reticent to say that they are working really well. The process of the common framework has been a really good collaboration. Therefore, I would not envisage, in this particular area of the common framework, what it looks to address that we would get to that stage of dispute resolution. It is certainly not the evidence that I have seen thus far, but this is about the future. Ultimately, if we could not get that agreement, if every other lever that we tried through informal discussion with the UK Government, official-level discussion, ministerial-level discussion, correspondence, et cetera, et cetera, of all that did not work, then that dispute resolution mechanism exists there for a good reason. On the evidence thus far, I would not see that being invoked in the short or medium term. In terms of information sharing, we have questions from Sue Webber. Sue Webber, thank you cabinet secretary for coming along today, albeit virtual. I am here at length from everyone about how much pressure everyone's workloads are on under. I am hoping that you might be able to help to get a sense that this framework will reduce duplication in the lives of the scientific advisory and expert groups that we have across the four nations. Are there any plans to develop greater consistency in the way that the data is collected, analysed and presented across the United Kingdom? That is a really good question. It might well do that in terms of reduction of duplication, but what I would say is that it is important for each of the Governments across the UK nations to have bespoke advice. Although there will be some common themes that affect Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales, there are also distinct issues that affect us uniquely. Having that scientific advisory group for the Scottish Government is really important for us, given the unique pressures that we might face. It might be different to parts of England and Wales, but Northern Ireland, perhaps, is the most obvious example of sharing that land border with a member of the European Union. It is absolutely to reducing duplication, for sure. I think that that probably will happen more as we see the framework embed. I would always reserve the right for us to make sure that we have that bespoke advice coming to us where we are appropriate. I come to Emma Harper on questions about cross-border co-operation. I am just interested in whether the cabinet secretary has any concerns about cross-border co-operation with the EU. Specifically, in our papers, it says that access to the early warning and response system is by ad hoc method, which means that, if there is a potential health issue, it will be up to the United Kingdom to write to the EU and ask if the UK can be part of its ad hoc process. I will labour the point. Everybody here would understand that the Scottish Government would have far preferred that we retained our EU membership. That would have given us greater access and would be part of ECTC, for example. Of course, we would not have to have MOUs, which, although they are positive, are suboptimal to EU membership. In one sense, there is no point in laboring that point, but it is important to put on record that any arrangements that we put in place in terms of cross-border co-operation with the EU are suboptimal in comparison to EU membership. In terms of co-operation, we would expect there to be a strong system of intelligence and data sharing. The UK, of course, as we know, has entered into an MOU—the UK Health and Security Agency, I should say—with the European Centre for Disease Control. We are pleased to see that the MOU has been signed, but, frankly, I am not convinced that it will give us the parity of access that we had previously. In fact, we will not have the parity of access that we had previously. In terms of the Scottish Government's involvement, which is an important point that Emma Harper asks around, if I were to go by the process of the framework, I would definitely be encouraged. Certainly, there was a role for Scottish representatives to be able to influence those discussions with the European Union, but, ultimately, if we were ignored, there would not necessarily be recourse for us that would be adequate to ensure that our outcomes and our desires in relation to that cross-border co-operation would be satisfied to really be met. I guess that I have touched on that as well. If we are talking about cross-border co-operation with the EU, as well as the cross-border co-operation with our neighbours south of the border, and I am thinking about the zoonotic diseases of SARS, MERS, swine flu, avian influenza and even Crushvelts-Yacob's disease in the past, we need to make sure that all the scientists are working together. Will the framework improve co-operation in the UK to make sure that everybody is sharing their scientific knowledge so that we are better prepared if there were any future pandemics that we needed to be worried about? I think about it, but, ultimately, what it will ensure is that we do not have any less co-operation. The danger, obviously, was with the exit from the EU whereby we were duty bound to have that co-operation with the exit with the EU and that we did not lose that co-operation. Therefore, the framework ensures that we do not have any less co-operation, which is important. I think that, for the purposes of looking forward, the framework and accompanying MOU that is set alongside it, I think that it absolutely ensures that there will be good collaboration within the UK but also with the European Union partners, which is important. In terms of the framework, members will be aware—I am sure that it is probably in your briefing—that there is the oversight group that is going to be really, really important. Of course, Scotland will have representation on that in order to ensure that co-operation is being maximised wherever possible. I think that the framework will evolve as it embeds, but, for me, the early signs are encouraging. I come to David Torrance, who has some questions around resources. Thank you, convener, and good morning, Cabinet Secretary. Will there be any plans to increase the health protection resources in Scotland where it has been identified as a need in the areas of review of disease notification, analysis of four nations working groups and the evolving science of genomics? The framework was developed not to impose or incur costs on any of the Governments that were taking the lead in certain areas. That is not to say that we would not bolster resources, I think that we would, particularly in the area of genomics. My goodness, the pandemic has taught us a lot, but it has clearly taught us the importance of genomic sequencing. We have committed, in fact, to the First Minister's references on a number of occasions that have put on record our desire to further increase our resources around genomics. Although the framework does not necessarily do that in those areas where we lead, I think that we would actually want to make sure that they are well resourced. Thank you, cabinet secretary. Thank you, David. I would like to follow-up with the question. Thank you, convener, and thank you, cabinet secretary. The common frame is good to hear what you are saying and the positives of the common framework. Does that mean that we have increased sharing in other areas of health research? The framework itself might not go into detail of that, but it is vitally important where we can share further research intelligence just to help us to build up our knowledge, particularly of the pandemic. That is the current issue that we are dealing with in facing research studies from across the UK that have helped to inform our thinking and our decision making. I think that we should look to do that. Dr Colhaney and I will have very different opinions on the constitutional future of Scotland. That is fine. Ultimately, whether we are independent and whether we are part of the union, sharing of that information across borders on those islands but also with the European Union is hugely beneficial. I would not want to lose that regardless of what our constitutional devolution setup is in Scotland at the time. That is the answer to your question about ensuring that we continue to share. The framework might not determine all that, but I know from my discussions with the UK Government that they are in the same place that I am. I know that my Welsh and Northern Irish counterparts are. The more we can share that research on health, the better to all of our citizens. Thank you to the cabinet secretary for giving us that feedback on our questions today and to his officials for joining us this morning. We are going to move on to our next item on the agenda now, colleagues. That is consideration of a notification from the Scottish ministers for consent to the following instrument. European qualifications, health and social care professions amendment EU exit regulations 2022. The purpose of that is to correct errors in the European qualifications, health and social care professions amendment EU exit regulations 2019 and to correct an error created by those regulations in the national health service performance list England regulations 2013. Under the protocol between the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government, consent notification has been categorised as type 1. That means that the Scottish Parliament's agreement is sought before the Scottish Government gives consent to the UK Government making secondary legislation and devolve competence. Do any members have any comments on the consent notifications? Thank you, convener. I want to put on to record the fact that I am against the idea of having a performance list. I think that it is outdated and something that we would be able to get rid of not only across the UK but in Scotland. As far as this particular motion is concerned, I think that it is something that probably does. It is just a correction, but I do want to put on to records that I am against the performance list. That is at UK level. You have put it on record that is something that you may want to flag up to our parliamentary colleagues in the UK Parliament. Emma Harper. In reading our papers, we need to be aware that when legislation is changed in England and that impacts or could impact our healthcare system in Scotland, we need to make sure that the cabinet secretary and that it keeps us informed and that we have an opportunity to pay attention to what is being taken forward. In a remote working environment, it is difficult to pick up non-verbals, look at what we need to do, find the right questions and make sure that the committee is kept completely informed about the issue as we go forward. Do any other members have any comments that I would like to make before I put the next question to you? I am not saying that anyone does. As the question is, if the committee is content that the provisions set out in the notification should be included in the proposed UKSI, I am not hearing anyone saying that they should not, but I take on board the comments made by Sondesh Gulhane and Emma Harper. Is there anything else? Are we content that it should be included in the UKSI? If you could just indicate to me by a nod or a shake of the head, we are all nodding. Are we all nodding? Yes, we are. Sorry, I am just looking at some members just to make sure that I have got their consent. Is the committee content to delegate authority to me to sign off a letter to the Scottish Government informing them of our decision today? I am saying that. I would not ordinarily ask for the robust shake of the head, but as Emma just mentioned, norm verbal cues are not very possible on this kind of platform. Thank you very much, colleagues. You have all given me your consent to do that. The fifth item on our agenda is consideration of a negative instrument, and that is the Food Withdrawal of Recognition Miscellaneous Amendments Scotland Regulations 2021. This instrument removes exemptions for certain products. In a number of regulations, it helps to ensure that imported products meet compositional rules for food in Scotland and ensure that Scottish business can maintain access to unfortified flour. The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee has considered this instrument and has made no recommendations to us and no motions to null have been received in relation to the instrument. Do any of our members have any comments on the instrument? You do not. Thank you. I propose therefore that the committee does not make any recommendations in relation to this negative instrument. Does any member disagree with that? Do you not disagree with that? Thank you very much. We are in agreement on this negative instrument. At our next meeting on 25 January, the committee will take more evidence from stakeholders and part of our inquiry into the health and wellbeing of children and young people, and we will also take evidence on the national planning framework 4. That concludes the public part of our meeting.


There seems to be a consensus that Auburns Derek Brown and South Carolina's Javon Kinlaw are the two top defensive tackles in this group. What is it about these two guys that sets them apart from everyone else in that group? You know both of these guys Amy are able to play the run and the pass you know pretty pretty much equally well. They're both they're both big physical guys they've got really good extension in other words they can make they can move the line of scrimmage. Now what you're always talking about with the line of scrimmage offensively or defensively is that if you're being successful you want to play on the other person's side of the line of scrimmage. Both of these guys have a lot of knockback to him. Brown is a little bit different in the fact that he is really really stout you know against the run and he's a really good horizontal player once he gets through the line of scrimmage. His chase ability at his size is really good. Kinlaw is longer than Brown is. He's longer, he's got more extension to him but still he is a disruptor and both of these guys can be centerpieces for defensive fronts you know for your for your team and that's why I think both of them and plus they both produced at a high level at a premier NCAA level. They're both southeastern conference players that week after week after week are playing against more of the same type of people they would be competing against in the national football league and so you've got a pretty good idea of what they can do on a consistent basis with their size, their knockback, their length and their athletic ability. Are there other defensive linemen that may not be of that elite status but still be of the caliber to be going in the first round? There's a group of really good guys in there that would be in the middle to bottom of the first round. A guy like a Ross Blacklock from PCU. You hear about guys that are making moves you know before the draft Blacklock is one of those guys. When you watch him in Gary Patterson's defense he played out of a four-point stance. He had both hands on the ground. He was charged sometimes with two gapping things but you can just envision his athletic ability if you get him into a three-point stance whether it's a right handed or a left handed three-point stance that this guy could play in either an even or an odd front. Let's talk about some of these day two picks. I would assume that there are a lot of guys that teams could get. Justin Madibuke from Texas A&M I think is one of the top guys on the next day. 6-2, 6-3 and change, 300 and some odd pounds showed really good first explosive step in his measurables at the combine. Had a nice year in A&M's defense and he is a guy that I think is on a lot of folks radar and I mentioned Marlon Davidson who was Derek Brown's teammate at Auburn. He would be somebody right there in that second to third round that would be hanging around. What about players that may be on the bubble and that could end up being really good value players? Laryl Mercheson that's at North Carolina State 6-2, 294 pounds he's a red shirt senior. He needs upper body strength he plays a little bit upright but he's got some contact balance but he's undersized he lacks a strong anchor but if you're gonna move your defensive front this is a guy you might want. Leaky Foto from Utah. Now this is a 6'5, 337 pound guy he plays a little upright which a lot of big guys do because they think they can just stand up kind of like a bear just maul people. Third one that I might go in there Jordan Elliott out of Missouri he's a red shirt junior and he's got some quickness. Now there's a lot to his game that he's got a refine but he's another guy that you might want to look at. The last guy for me is Jason Strobridge from North Carolina. 6'4, 267 pounds he's a red shirt senior he's long he's large he's an interior player and he just needs more lower body master anchor he's got some quickness and some traits to develop. Rick Juan Davis from Alabama. 6'7, 312 pounds so he can eat up space he's just not as fluid in the hips and explosion that you'd like to see but I think there's some developmental things there that you can do to help him in his particular role and later on in the draft McTelvin Ajean from Arkansas he's a developmental D-Line when a lot of room to grow for him in this position because he played outside in 2018 moved to inside on that D-Line last year in Arkansas defense so he's still got some upside in learning there. Give me a player too that may have really caught your eye someone that maybe Titans fans should make sure that they're aware of and keep their eyes on. Richard Lawrence out of LSU 6'2.5, 311 pounds he's a down the line guy there's a guy at Ole Miss named Josiah Cotney that's 6'3, 311 pounds. James Lynch from Baylor 6'4, 285 smart football IQ guy doesn't have all of the athletic measurables that you'd like but I think he has the experience and he's played in some different spots. Bravion Roy from Baylor he's not prototypical size for a nose tackle he's 6'1, 320 but he has a really good first step and he's very athletic.