Good morning. Good morning. I don't have any idea why so many of you are here. So my name is Arash Vessel, my co-conspirator, Gary Lopez. I believe he's still on a plane, winging his way to this conference. He's going to be talking more about work we explicitly do within the Monterey Institute for Technology and Education, or that's MIT, if you pronounce it, MIT. That's happening later this afternoon, if you want to hear about that. So I don't really have, like, a presentation. You probably saw this session was in green, which I believe means it's a questioning or assumptions session. And the thinking, as I understood it, was to have someone like me get up and say something, I guess, controversial. Or something of that flavor. And then the rest of you get to all join in in either agreeing or disagreeing, or otherwise just kind of pushing this topic forward. So I did decide it might be helpful to give a little bit of background with perhaps a few visuals, none of which were adapted for this particular presentation. So I'm just going to kind of walk you through what it is that led to this issue that I put. And so if you'd read the title, it's, you know, which license for OER? Question mark may actually be the wrong question. How many of you have been involved in OER, and in particular involved in this kind of whole issue of which license is the right license and so on? So clearly it's still a significant part of what kind of defines the OER space today. If you follow the writings of David Wiley, if you follow the writings of a lot of the people in this space, you see that probably at least everyone, there's some new posts about, you know, why the non-cursional term is evil, or, you know, why can't we just get everybody to use such as such a license, you know, surely a group of commons has got to have to share a like clause in there to make it all work. It's certainly a def, it's part of the definition for OER to have this sort of licensing element. I would say at least today that's probably the only actual defining feature of OER, is that it has this license attached to it that gives permission for people to do things. But in my opinion, especially when I've tried to ground some of these questions about, well, how do we actually produce OER that people are going to use? How do we get it into school systems? How do you build sustainable business models around the production of this stuff? Who's going to use it? Where does the value lie? Et cetera, et cetera. The licensing thing just is such an amazing distraction. It just dominates every single way that we think about, well, if this organization is going to get involved, then obviously they're going to have to use that license and so on. And then people get all tied at knots because they say, ah, but now OER is producing another one license, and we've got connections doing things in a different license, and the policies say this, and when you dig into something like the non-commercial term, you discover it's a non-standardized term. Anyway, blah. So important, but maybe we can start to think of ways to move past that. And so what do I mean by that? Well, I take the frame that the only thing that is really distinctively special about open educational resources is the ability to adapt them. It's to freely derive an adapt. You don't need a license to make them free. And for the vast majority of purposes that are kind of end users, those being students and teachers, that they might even want to do some derivations and adaptations within the classroom, they already have those rights, not writ large, but copyright exceptions limitations and various fair use clauses entitle teachers to quite a bit of latitude to make minor adjustments and do the things they need to with any resource they can get their hands on, especially if they're only going to keep it and use it within a closed setting, such as in the classroom. And so the big question is if what we're seeking is to put out a pool of resources where people really have any flavor, so that could be other publishers, that could be teachers, that could be consortia of, you know, institutions and individuals. So we're probably going to take them, change them, and then most importantly, republish them, put them back out there for anyone else to use. Then the license really needs to make that vanishingly simple. And I think the only license that really does that with no real questions asked is the Creative Commons attribution only license CC by. The public domain would accomplish that too, but it's quite difficult to get things into the public domain even with tools like CC0. There will be people here who will certainly argue vociferously and pay for a bias A as kind of a key kind of community building constraint. But is there, can we imagine a world where we can give advice to traditional publishers, to startups, to really anyone who's in the business of saying, I want to participate in OER, and I want to make OER that has CC by on it, and I want to also eat. I need to make money. I need to somehow survive, and I don't want to be constantly scrounging for the next grant, constantly sort of begging for dollars from, you know, community donations, that sort of thing. Like, how do I get there? How do I get there? That's the conversation I like to have. And just as a straw man, I'll throw up a few things. So one is that a working group that I also helped to put together, and I've just been kind of thinking through whether there's some very kind of high level guidelines that we might imagine being able to toss out to the community for anyone who says, that's the person I want to be. I want to produce CC by or, you know, otherwise wide open licensed resources. And yeah, I want to be able to do that without running foul of any problems and to also make good sustainability model decisions, that sort of thing. And so we created what is a first draft of what we're calling a decision tree, and it has legal, technical, and business issues, three separate trees. And the idea is just to try to make these issues more tractable. So that's one thing I'll throw up, and I'm not going to go through it because that's not the point of this talk. But I just want you to realize that's available, it's published, anyone who wants it, I'm happy to have it, and it is itself CC by. And I would encourage everybody to tear it apart, right? If there are things in it that you're like, whoa, that's the wrong question, that kind of thing. And if you want, we can talk through it. The other thing I would point to is trying to even further simplify this question, and this is not the greatest or simplest guide, right? But to the extent that an organization is not so much into this whole more academic side of what's the right license for the right purpose, but just needs to know, can I even publish something at CC by? What rights do I have as somebody who maybe has repurposed something or has contractual obligations, that sort of thing? And so starting to think about whether there are flow charts that simplify that decision process and guess so that this whole issue of hand-bringing over the license can be lessened and they can move on to things like, okay, what are the appropriate technical formats that we can use to really honor when the license allows or what are the kind of business models we can design that allow us to do this without basically sinking the ship. So one proposal I have, and I don't have this thrown up in any nice diagram, and some of you may have read this, is something I was calling dual publication model. The idea behind dual publication is that an organization might produce resources they understand to be core to their business and there's various reasons why adapting those resources might actually be a bad idea. And I say that in the sense of all the various value ads that might have been put in. So for example, maybe it's been aligned with standards but if you start changing the resource, the alignments break, right? Or maybe it's been rigorously evaluated in the classroom setting and efficacy results come in and people say, yes, it works, but only if you don't change it, right? Only if you don't then go and start tearing it apart. Now all bets are off. We don't know if it works anymore. And so you could imagine there would be reasons why as an organization you might not actually want people to change at least a version of it. Think of it as a branded version or a trademark version. And you would say, yes, we think this has a lot of value and maybe you want it. Ah, this organization wants to be part of the OER effort and fundamentally believe in it. Could it be that they could still publish that version not with an open license or at least with a more restricted license? But then decompose it into all of its component parts and publish those separately, the dual publication part, in formats and under a wide open license that remove any guarantees. So we don't really know what you're going to do with this. We can't promise anything. But here it is. It's yours to change. Go for it. Have fun. Is that a model that actually might bring more people into the fold? It provides kind of a way through this issue of, oh, do we have to license everything one way openly? Or could we imagine licensing some things one way and some things another way and trying to make sense of that according to the business loans we have? So I think, I'm hoping that sets up enough of the dialogue and if I need to, I can say stand up and throw some flames at people to open it up. And it's kind of a weird question in our assumption that you're all facing need. Really, there should be a giant circle or small groups or something but we'll see what we can do. Yeah. I have some faculty back on my campus store. Older, probably close to retirement age anyway. And they're not really interested in how can I see the most money out of this. They've also gotten rid of the idea that their lecture notes is going to be the next textbook. But then they do have some really great materials that they let people use. One of their fears is that they're going to release the material into Creative Commons and then another company is going to pick it up and then turn it into something that somebody has to pay for and then their name is now associated with the work that somebody has to pay for. And the whole reason why they released it was so their students could have it for free. And they want to lower the cost of education if they're giving away for free. So, I still have these handful of faculty who are really suspicious of these licensing models. Sure. I have all kinds of things to say but someone other than Cable will respond to that. Do you have something? Are you going to respond to that? Yeah, I am. No, Andrew. I would just tell them that students don't pay for anything anymore. They don't come from music or movies or textbooks that they don't have to use. If it's freely available online, then the Google search will find it. I mean, I could bundle Wikipedia and try and sell it door to door but I probably wouldn't have a ton of success. So, I would hope that argument wouldn't be like a mitigate factor for professors to share their knowledge. There are other factors, maybe, but not that one. It's free to people. Someone else? This is another question rather than a response. Yeah, any other thoughts on that? So, let me throw this out. I understand. I'm with Open Study which is a for-profit and we partner with many wonderful OCWs and so I completely understand what the faculty are getting at. And it's not that for-profits will make money out of them free by selling them free, but for a for-profit to exist, you have to make some kind of revenue. So, when you layer on revenue-generating products or services and then you come back and the faculty says, here's somebody else making money out of something that I slayed over and I created, is that appropriate? I think that's the question I'm under and I'd love to hear other thoughts about this because on the one hand, how do for-profits survive without making money? That's what you said. And so, we really want to find a way to do that, respectfully. I'm also a faculty, so I understand that. Very respectfully, so that we all survive in this ecosystem because we have to have an ecosystem, as Jim said, with non-profits and for-profits and everything else in the field. Any other thoughts? Well, it sounds like a part of what you're selling is convenience and a part of what, you know, it's open. So, if you're selling convenience by packaging pieces together and somebody wants to buy that convenience, well, then hand that at it. But if people want to go out and find the individual pieces that are out there and openly available, they could go out and do that. And I think that you could make that case for faculty members, and I suppose you could make that case at any time. If it's open, it's open. And you're going to find a way, I mean, any businesses would all sort the business model, but it seems to me convenience is really what you're selling. It's not the best kind of argument, but one of them is that the for-profit publishers aren't any better. You know, we are. Example I, in my space, which is in legal publishing, is a couple of guys who had written a treatise and decided they didn't want to do an update west, or it was Thompson, said, well, we'll make a lot of money. Did an update, put their name on it, they sued saying, well, that's not our update, but our name is on it, and won. The point being that the publishers sometimes will want to make money off of the author's names and will take license that way, which is no better than OERs and be stealing your material. I guess my answer to your question is, yeah, it's a messy world out there. I'm giving my ignorance. Doesn't the non-commercial option in OER take care of that problem? Indeed, and in many ways, that's part of the problem, right, which is that a typical reaction to what I would say is a fairly common scenario, I think many people are grappling with this at the institutional level, is, oh, yeah, okay, it browses the wrong way when a for-profit comes and leverages the work that we were giving away under a good graces and then makes all this money. How do I stop that from happening? And inevitably that drives you to adopt these more restrictive licenses. And that's where, that's what we've seen again and again and again. And so my question to the group is, in addition to these kinds of responses, is there a way that we could confidently assert that you just don't need to do that? Can you still put it out with a license where there aren't these restrictions and yet there's something about either the way the license works, for example, the attribution requirements are often brought up as a mechanism where by someone might see that the book's for sale, but because of the attribution requirement, maybe they see right there, by the way, there's a free version of this right here, but you don't have to buy the book if you just want the content. For some people that seems to be enough for there are other ways of getting around this. When I've said the race to the bottom and the licensing department. Yeah, so I guess I thought from the title of the talk that you're asking a different question here, do we really need to care which license each? That's a good question. And I think there are two reasons why the licenses are important. One, the one we're talking about now is it provides assurance to somebody who's thinking about putting their content out in the open but has concerns. License protects them in whatever way they need to be protected in order to do it. The other is to foster certain kinds of characteristics to encourage more reuse, to create sustainability models and so on. And in the latter case, maybe I'm behind the times in terms of the research, but my sense is we don't know anything about what works. I mean, the sustainability, rather the derivatives is a good point you brought up some points about problems with derivatives to start with. I would add to that if we have a plethora of derivatives that are floating all around in no canonical copy, there's no real blessed source control the way there is no source here. At least there could be, but there largely isn't. So what are the relationships among these derivatives and are all derivatives equal and how do people know which derivative they want to use? So I guess my feeling is for now let people use whatever license makes them feel comfortable putting things out in the open and then do the research over time to figure out what impact a particular license chose and has on sustainability. Now, there will be particular cases where you're trying to accomplish something, you're doing a sustainability experiment, or you have a particular relationship with your authors and you need to choose something for one reason. I'm not saying there's never a reason to pick one license over the other. I'm just saying writ large. I don't think we know enough to carry it. I fundamentally agree with that as well. I think at some level that's sort of the flip way of interpreting the question which is maybe we should just stop worrying about it to use whatever makes sense to you and don't get too involved in it and the real issues might be actually about, as you said, management of copies. Sort of the technical infrastructure that allows an adaptation ecosystem to grow and thrive and people make sense of what's even out there. And then we just kind of see whether we, that drives us back to reconsidering your licensing question depending on how that falls out. Yes? An additional nuance to what Michael just said, I mean, this is the line of choose whatever license you want. But what I've noticed from MIT over here and I've seen the legal environment with regard to our activity change and morph since it began 10 years ago, when we started out we thought we're more of a publisher, we have to think like publishers, we have to behave like publishers and license like publishers within the CC license we chose. Now I see the legal environment responding to us as more of educators. So we are being afforded more of a regard and allowance of our behavior in this space as educators. We do take advantage of a lot of the protections that individual faculty members have in the classroom because our activity is so clearly in line with teaching and learning. So choose whatever license you want.  It might take longer, but eventually it will get there. I'm curious to hear about what you mean by that. That's a very granular example of the choice that we made at MIT in the beginning we thought there was no way that our activity could be considered fair use. And then we said, hang on, in some cases yes. And we kind of, success, and by success I mean nothing bad has happened. Yeah, I understand. So you said that we don't know what we work and this is where we, it's not exactly true because of course we have an older brother who is called free software and we know what works for free software and actually the discussion between CCB and CCB SA is 20 years old now because it started like a PSD versus GPL discussion. And now we very well know what works for software, the GPL one. I mean everyone uses PSD but it's, it has a mark, but it's closed, it's not open anymore. And this is how, so this is how this developed in the last 20 years to the software. People are successful in keeping open open and the software which was protected by PSD devices ended as a closed software for bright hours. So of course for educational content things may work differently but I suspect that you may also be very similar to this area. So I don't think it's, the answer for the question just choose what fits you is that easy. I mean because you really need to look forward and anticipate the results and the other question is the question of license compatibility. I mean if you want to create the, I don't know how to say it in English, sorry for that. You know the large community which is where you can freely read me different kind of content and the standardization of licenses is really needed for that and I'm really happy that there's kind of consensus on CC buy because it makes things much easier for now but I don't think it's an easy answer. So just, and I guess we could debate for a while about the extent to which sort of the open source software lesson or history applies so well to all of the content just essentially in the audience and that's obviously a very interesting debate but that's exactly those kinds of perspectives that I think kind of held the debate at this point, right? No, it's going to be this because here's a good reason or it's got to be that because there's XYZ history. I think part of what I'm hearing is on the one hand we certainly need ways of probably just providing simple guidelines to people who have legitimate reasons to think one way or another they need one license for the other but otherwise just move past it and I want to kind of throw a straw man out there and this didn't come up a little bit in the talks this morning around technical expectations. So there's a lot of stuff out there OER which has a license which entitles you to do something. It might entitle you to make a derivative perhaps even under commercial circumstances and yet when you look at the thing that you've been given the odds that you can even derive it let alone do anything particularly interesting with it are quite low and so one thing I would just throw out as a question is do you think there's any obligation on the part of an OER producer to try to match that which has been legally entitled with the format, the way in which the product is delivered such that those legal permissions can actually be engaged can actually be capitalized on and that's another question and to give a very specific example if you think about something like an openly licensed video lesson what does it even mean to adapt it adaptation in what form and what does it mean to then try and provide that in a way that adaptations are enabled and I just got to be curious to hear people's thoughts on that as it really just kind of let people do what they want It seems to me that that's also part of the question is the end product of any learning versus direction type files that you're going to talk about web based learning resource for example which you run across in the government all the time who owns what, what you can do with it and we had, at ADL we had a usability experiment with Cordra and we were actually interested in other things trying to do some more with the department of that one of the issues happens to be okay so you have a resource that's discoverable that you can use that you can maybe have permissions which is another kind of issue to use it what can you actually use out of it and you can't really use it I mean you can use it as is but quite obviously to repurpose it you don't have the right files in it so you don't really have the capability to decompose it because you don't have the natives on anything to me that's another issue I'll respond from sort of an institutional perspective a lot of times you talk about people being able to choose the right license that works for them personally when you're talking on an institutional level for say an OCW like ours from Johns Hopkins people aren't making these decisions institutions are making these decisions and institutions are very cautious even when they're think they're being bold so I would say that this question of you grant somebody a legal right but then you put it up in a format that makes it a little bit challenging is one of those bargains that gets struck in a committee somewhere that says okay we're comfortable with this license thing and we want to be able to do the right thing but we're not entirely comfortable with the adaptation can you make it a PDF instead of a PowerPoint file and that makes it a little bit harder and I'm not saying that I was even in a room for that specific conversation but those are the kind of bargains that sort of get struck with knowing looks to make OCWs or OERs even possible in the first place not to excuse it but just to need one reason why this sort of condition has grown up I think it really depends when we're talking about institutions making the decision it's a different thing they have the resources to reformat etc when you're talking to individuals about making this choice and maybe about making the choice because they can't take the thing for themselves and it's maybe healthy for individuals to think about sharing something that they're not entirely satisfied with openly so that people can make derivatives and take it further to ask them to put it into different formats is a big ask because they're teachers, they're already time pressured if we're talking about sort of a change that isn't just about funding projects or large institutions with a big agenda putting stuff out there I think we have to think about what we're asking people to do because we already ask quite a lot about the license if we ask them to think about formats as well and changing things they don't have the resources to do I think also as we move ahead we know how quickly technology changes and advances I mean there are ways to alter a video you can use Camtasia and take different chunks out of it you can get a screenshot of a PDF and run OCR software and it's going to be easier to do those things just to take what you're saying did everyone hear that technology is evolving so quickly what might be a kind of unusable format today or at least to some subset people quite likely tomorrow will just not be a big deal and so would you say that then means that a publisher just need not worry about it because I think a lot of publishers have very intentional choices you just too publish in a way that doesn't make pre-exercise the license that simple and so what you're saying actually undermines this conscious decision they made which is kind of an interesting intention well I think that even figured into that and like I said it's not really even a conscious decision it's sort of just how everybody got to yes um figured into that is the knowledge that eventually this you know this is going to become more and more usable as time goes on is probably even part of that that unspoken calculation well we use that as a differentiator our my non-profit publishes open access ebooks and our definition of open is that we publish it as PDF and RTF e-pub and a download so that downstream users can take it and re-create new ebooks and then we use it as a differentiator to our funders, our members to say we're different than the commercial publishers that only publish a closed BRM version of e-books therefore continue to fund us one of the issues that institutions have is the obligation of our accessibility and that dictates a lot of our formatting choices that we make not actually the requirements so that's not to push this in that direction but that's an element of the formats that we should publish in well I was just going to ask all of these covers I think hopefully the people's notion of the IP is probably vetted into the files that actually we're talking about and the things that you mentioned all of those degrade integrity so that's fine so anything you do that is given the fidelity of the original it's a one step removed from ownership and the actual ownership is embedded into the production into the native files of whatever it is that we're talking about and that's a cultural issue and until you actually bridge that gap I don't think we're going to have a lot of partners you're always going to be trying to do a workaround to get to how can I do this how can I calculate this you can't tell you whatever it is whatever tool you want but that's not the real issue I would kind of like to change the conversation because I think one thing that OER licensing does which is a mistake in my mind is that it makes the assumption that there is one version ultimately the good version and it licenses that and I would love to see an environment whereby the version is a community version and then you get around this does it belong to an individual does it belong to an institution instead it belongs to a community and a community that works together to show what parts of that version work and where even in the keynote today there are things like we want all this research we want to discover what works the one thing that works I don't believe there is one thing that works for every student and if we can move the culture to develop community resources instead of I'm the great physics professor from wherever and here is my great lecture or my great notes I think that it would just be a much better environment and it's a community thing I hope not but who knows just to pick up on what you're saying we're doing an open course library and the Washington Community and Technical Colleges and struggle with this first we put everything in Angel our learning management system and found just what you said and you can't really get it so in the next phase we're putting things in Google Docs and Sailor.org is putting those courses on Sailor.org it's moving and I think that's kind of the point if you try to crowd it, it's not really open so you put the CC by license on it or whatever and off it goes you lose that control and have to at this point that's what we're prepared to take that it's going to change as people take it it's good is there an existence of Wikipedia like model or tool for delivery of open resources that's what I thought of when she talked about community value classes like a Wikipedia type that's like open source software community where you put up your open source software and other people can publish their changes through it so I would include certainly wiki educator wiki university and there's various other wiki media projects wiki books, wiki university but also places like connections, Kariki you could even include other larger collaborative communities where they're sort of imagining building on each other like through university and so on so yeah all of those have this kind of model so I mean I think a bigger question around what you're saying is that's a vision of the world where there's this canonical if you will set of resources upon which almost everything is built is built in this sort of collaboratively distributed curated way and then we just sort of let people do whatever off of them that's fine I certainly don't have any particular issue with that I just haven't I guess I'm skeptical that that'll actually reach the kind of scale of the sort of operational principles that you're talking about it certainly cuts out any individual entrepreneur or company that might say we have something that we think is of great value and people are just going to love it and it's going to be incredibly good at facilitating learning and we want to drive it forward maybe a simple way of saying it is to say my committee is not always better in fact many times it might be a lot worse I just like to clarify I'm really not talking about a community that develops the canon because I don't agree with that as I said I don't think that there is one product that meets all needs but I think that if we have the community and students for that matter in effect curate it or provide the feedback and incorporate that as a community as opposed to what seems to be a complex way where things have to be associated with individuals in order to be derivative I'm not explaining it very well but probably because I don't have it all in my mind I like that you mentioned students that's my forte getting students to collaborate and share their class notes online freely with the world and they are creating derivative works almost as good as textbooks and almost every lecture, class every semester I mean you wouldn't believe how good study guides are or at least the ones that I've seen so I think it's interesting to empower in some cases at least a cost cutting measure students to do the quote unquote dirty work of creating and sharing these resources and they're willing to do it and they're willing to share their notes they're willing to record the lecture for you and upload it on your behalf to the internet as well students are very powerful resources I think in open ed we just haven't yet tapped into that so just a number of things, hopefully I can tie them up so just to your initial point who cares about CCB or BIASA or fair use in Japan where I'm from actually the copyright exception allows only for the reproduction not making derivative so it modders for that kind of countries with big white violence and I think it's somewhat important that for collaborative work to get certain licensing stuff done so that down the road you know somebody who contributed something two years ago comes up and say oh this is not what I meant to be a point and the whole project collapses that's not the kind of thing we wanted to take risk of is my guess but at the same so there are in a larger scheme of things I think we are talking a lot about incentive structures for organizations, individual professors and maybe some cases businesses around the resources and unless we get some really good way to solve this problem in non licensing options such as great amount of funding I think probably licensed and being a concern for a lot of people to get things incentive structure right so that we get more resources open up or we get more people involved in refining the resources and so and my sense is and I'm not very well informed on this but my sense is that even in the US we can't get to that phase of okay we got enough resources already so we don't worry about incentivizing people anymore that's not the stage we are at yet and also regarding the idea of open software versus open education I think open education is a lot more about how much improvement we can make learning and education teaching experiences so if we focus on that then it's important not just to talk about how good a material we can produce but also how usable it is for teachers learners and other institutions so one of the things that I worry about is if people start experimenting with all kinds of licenses and which happened at least to a degree in the open source world because if you look at the open open open software initiative you know they they have this review process of open licensing open licenses and they list some 60 licenses as open licenses some you know and a lot of familiar names like NASA Microsoft, IBM Mozilla all of them came up with their own version of open license that is open enough to be reviewed and approved of by this independent organization but if you think about the cost of reading licenses and think about if I can combine this resource under license A this resource under license B that's enormous and that's almost prohibitive so I think it's somewhat important to limit the range of options like staying in Creative Commons of course I'm from Creative Commons Japan so I was kind of self-serving but something like that is somewhat important is my guess I'm curious how much people so for example some people I've talked to in OCW have sort of come around to this opinion they don't necessarily see the raw material that's published by open course search partners is being generated meaning it's not like the stuff that you start with and then you'll actually manipulate it directly to create new things they see as being representative so it's there you know now people can see how we do it they can see the things we think are important decisions we make and then they can kind of use it as a model right and I think that whether or not we thought it would be generative or not as we said earlier with someone who's here what we've seen so far is the evidence is that most people don't actually seem to build directly of resources they don't adapt them from a source derive them and then republish them so you can see this clear there's a parent and there's a child you know when there's a version 1 version 2 and instead most people seem to just consume them and you never hear anything more about it and I guess is that a problem I mean does that just represent the reality of the world that most people will consume things as offered especially if they're available for free and that a lot of the sort of derivation kind of work doesn't actually depend on being able to derive the work directly or is that representative you know a real issue that we need to solve how do we get people to actually build off things directly anyway I'm an instructor and I one of my biggest issues I take but there's a huge question like where do I put it back and then how how does somebody like what's the value of what I adjusted for my own classroom like is somebody really going to have value or see the small changes that I made or the big changes that I made there's just a lack of the technology I think is missing or the I don't know what to call that but the box that we put our stuff back into for an instructor to know how to share back or the value of sharing back and would you I'm going to poke on you a little bit so you imagine that you're you've done that and you've made these changes so presumably you've made the changes for some good reason you have a particular need and you had some thinking and went into that changes you made I would imagine that for someone else to come along and take an interest in your version they would want to understand why those changes were made which then I think that's a burden on you as the republisher to not just republish it but to include some neurata if you will you know well I did this because and I did this and this didn't work so well so I probably wouldn't do that again I mean can you imagine being part of that kind of an ecosystem that kind of a community or is that starting to sound like something you just couldn't possibly have time to deal with I think I mean I think the time issue is huge because I mean if I'm taking it off I could see throwing it back up there and letting people but I know that I wouldn't sort through 18 different versions of a document like I wouldn't know so that I agree with you that that labeling or that description of why the change was significant in my world is important but it is a total time like for me why not just create my own thing and then like why would I go and take something that's already out there I'll just do it myself and then stay in my own little world which I think it's a problem I don't know how to solve it and I think it should be solved as far as getting instructors you know engaging in this community we were talking about bring back free software but they have versions and it's really beautiful how you can just take and then share back and then someone else will merge your changes the ones they like at least with the main document and then other people can pull off I mean it's a nice little timeline it's actually very cool but it is funny even in free software for using that as our metaphor it's not an inordinate success I mean the average number I'm actually a friend of the Bergman Center Harvard who does research into this the average number of contributors to all open source top software is one one person and then he says if you take it that's pulling from source forage and give up he says okay let's get rid of most of the noise so he says let's just look at the top 10% most active 10% he says the average number of contributors for those it's still one and then okay if you look at the top 2% the average number of contributors is 2 and it's kind of staggering quite how much one person can do but I think it is very uplifting even if you're that one person to know that you did that so even if you're just saying thank you I think that would land an enormous boost someone made use of this in some way I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing I don't think you have to look at that necessarily as a failure all these open source problems only one person is actually doing the work it might be that it's an ecosystem there's a whole bunch of ones and they generate the ecosystem upon which the 1% of which there's a 2 and a 10 and a 1,000 the Linux, the Apache they know the big systems and I think that's kind of true in education too there's going to be millions of ones and they have to be there because there are some straight upon which everything else gets built which a little sharing happens and then on top of that a little bit more sharing maybe there is no pinnacle to this maybe it's a flat, it's a table top or a mesa of sharing I think the usability a lot and the resharing goes a lot back to the standards I mean you guys have programming standards and languages around which you develop your content in education we do not in any of the arenas like media or any kind of little snippets and things you're creating there is kind of one in textbooks and I would say in our department I teach mathematics and we there are tools available and we have used them CK12 is one where we go and grab textbooks that have already been created that we like and we can repackage them we can change a few things at our own title page, do that kind of thing and then republish our own book that comes from the resources and we've done that with several classes starting this semester but it's a format that has some recognized standards or common elements in terms of presentation and usability what was the incentive for you guys to do that? Well cost is primary we are in a community college system and to ask a student especially in a developmental math class to pay $150 for a calculator I mean they've just paid more for materials to put the entire course so to make it as free it's easy for them in terms of cost as possible and in that case if you were making adjustments it kind of fit with the way the resources are provided and the tools they have so you could make a judgment call about never mind the license we know we can get it we know we can get permission to adapt or we can have a conversation about what we would change use the tools they have and then republish back to a place that they hose and from a content perspective it's interesting when you're looking for things to mass produce for students in our minds we kind of had this conversation about is it good well it only needs to be good enough because then as instructors that's what we bring in the classroom is well this is presented this way here's an alternate method etc it has to be the best thing on the planet it nearly needs to be good enough for your purposes something that's interesting is a lot of what's been discussed especially in the second half it's really about individuals people are maybe small groups who might be working in an institutional context but we're not talking about large corporations or businesses that sort of taking the material repackaging it and trying to push it out it's really about individuals being able to play and really I'm just sort of parenting something that if Gary were here he would say one of the big challenges we face is a lot of it the way we make decisions especially around the licensing is based on this perception of what businesses will do what corporations will do we want some business entity to pick up our stuff repackage it, rebrand it and then go off and make a ton of money when you take them out of the picture and you say okay well what kinds of bad behavior do you want to stop individuals from doing most people go well nothing really I mean yeah there's some things you can imagine people doing that's not the concern and in fact that's usually the incentive is you're imagining some teacher or some small group of people that are being self-empowered to take hold of this thing that's been on offer and do something great with it I think that's an interesting problem for the community is trying to suss apart the concerns and incentives that we imagine putting out there for the commercial space versus the concerns and incentives we have really around kind of grassroots individual individual use and I suspect that plays a lot into why licensing decisions go the way they are I think we probably have time for like one or two or come and sit so cable great from Creative Commons on the point of do people use other people's stuff I think I'm a big fan of going back to first principles if you think about the Academy at large one of the principles of the Academy is that we build on others' work we give credit when we use somebody else's work and just as an example if I wanted to be a biochemist today and I made a statement to the Academy stood up at a conference and said I'm going to figure out what the double helix structure of DNA looks like it's not out of the room because that work's been done and it's been done several times and you need to build on top of that and you need to get credit we're not interested in anything here to say that's the kind of work you want to do and yet that's exactly what we do not just in OER but with education at large we think that we all have to develop sociology one on one we all have developed videos and of course we don't so I made some statements this morning about what the federal government can do with its grants and what it makes us do is to bias in favor of grants that acknowledge that they don't have to build from scratch and use other people's high quality works I think what we can do as the community that launches projects and in many cases new OER projects to is a foundational set of statements so I'm going to be open course library Connie's gone but we started that and said our goal is to build the entire general education curriculum for community colleges and it's going to have a CC by license on it but before we even get started we acknowledge several things we're not the smartest folks out there we don't have all the answers and if we think that we do and if we think that we should build everything from scratch then frankly we're arrogant and we should be allowed to do such important work and so we're not going to start there and I'm sorry that Alana left the room from the sailor but sailor started with the same premise there are highest and low programs in their case and they said we're going to go out and look for what other people have done that we could build on and then and only then will we build new things we will build in the gaps and I personally think there's a huge opportunity for the community where we share a lot of common goals I think we all share in the common goal that if there's high quality openly licensed material or material that's in the public domain that's generally a good thing for people around the world who want to learn it's kind of a base goal and if that's true then I think we should do we should do a better job so again as an example the open course library when my physics engineering faculty started to build their course I said how do you look at MIT of a coursework they said no and I said how can you start to build OCW about physics and not having a look at MIT and they went oh yeah that's a mistake and they looked at MIT they used a bunch of MIT of a coursework they made good connections with MIT faculty into MIT projects so huge ones all around I think we don't do enough of that and I would encourage that as a best practice in any OER project to the same way that you adopted CK12 you could have said what's David's? Arizona so you could have said in Arizona we have the best teachers and faculty we're going to build our own open textbooks but they didn't they took the CK12 book it maybe wasn't perfect to make the modifications and to slice the ties of the way they want to I guess two quick comments I just want to follow up on my cable set interestingly enough depending on your student population and of course I have research across the board my students want to hear my voice they don't connect as well if I give them more generic resources created by someone else if I can find resources that are more specific to the online that's great but the reason I create so much is because my students want to hear me they don't even want to hear my colleague down the hall they want to hear me so that's an issue sorry just because I know we have one minute left so just want to say thank you for participating and my hope certainly and I hope all of you will go through this whole conference thinking about this is that more of these kinds of issues are the ways to facilitate republication of derivatives that's a big challenge people have right now what are the ways that we can kind of obviously ignore the license in the service of trying to get to these other more compelling challenges that we have quality control how we actually get adoptions into districts how we actually bring people together to leverage existing material regardless of who they are and so forth I would think that at this point there's enough as Cable put it quite eloquently there is a shared baseline perspective that we all have on this and while the license issue is certainly an interesting one it too often comes in the way of oh because it's this license you can't do it or oh you're really making the wrong choice nobody's going to do X, Y, Z with your stuff and maybe it's time to kind of move past that a little bit actually saying you know let's yes that's there but let's move on let's think about these other things how do we get people to do things we really care about and we might through research then be able to backtrack our way to say ah yeah this this licensing issue is a real impediment I feel like it's backwards anyway


And we are live. Nice. Hi everyone, this is Chicho. Welcome to my channel and welcome to another live stream Today today is August 14th 2021 and I took a couple of weeks off almost a couple of weeks. I guess 10 days or so off and I finally ended up visiting family after a year and Over a year that I hadn't seen them or about a year that I hadn't seen them because of the Lockdowns and whatnot and it was really nice seeing everyone and touching base Had to sort of decompress for a couple of days after I got back and Prepping up to go see them took a little time. Joe. How are you doing? Welcome? Welcome to another live stream Hope you are doing well as is everyone else I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope and today This is the first of six live streams that we're going to do We're doing one right now And it's 10 30 10 o'clock a.m. My time Pacific time and we're gonna run for about an hour and a half and we got a Comic book haul little guy right little comic book. Oh, okay that we're gonna take a look at and we have Sort of just touch base and do a little update and later on this afternoon at 2 o'clock We're gonna do a current events live stream and then the next two days. Hello, lark bark. Are we doing what up? What up? What up? Hope you're doing well Meta dragon. Hello. Hello in Robin Williams radio voice. Good morning, Chichonians. Good morning, Chichonians Chichonia, not Vietnam. Chichonia. It's got to be a country good Morning Chichonia. Is that how it goes? I haven't seen it for a long time that MC Mike. How are you doing? So we're gonna do a little comic book haul. It's more of a Trading card haul. Okay, and then we're gonna do a little update and then tomorrow and the next day We're gonna do two live streams each day again 10 a.m. My time 2 p.m. My time both Sunday and Monday where we're gonna Take a look at at least four of Julien Assange's The World Tomorrow the show that he had in those 12 episodes Highly recommend watching all of them, but we can talk about that tomorrow or later on during current events live stream shirtless Kylo, how are you doing? Hello. Hello, Meta Dragon 100% exactly what I wanted to hear. Day has begun And that was a good movie man for what I remember. I don't know if it's gonna hold hold out for the test of time I'm not sure how much propaganda was in there But Robin Williams I liked Controversial ending, but it was what it was, right? Lark bark saw you yesterday on the gray zone. Yeah YouTube live stream Yeah, I was on Twitch and then I went on YouTube because I was watching gray zone And by the way, great the gray zone if you're not following if you want current events news Politics if you want to know what's going on in the world in a big way 95% on the ball, right? You need to be following the gray zone Okay, they're live streaming on sensor tube But they're also broadcasting it on twitch so you can watch it on twitch and I believe they're also broadcasting on rockfin right now yesterday's topic their guests didn't show up and What happened was? Max he started going off on Things that you're not allowed to talk talk about on sensor tube and Ben was getting a little nervous because he came out and said multiple times look we put years of work into this Got all these subscribers this followers this platform that we have a presence on and sensor to may ban us Okay, scooty. Thank you very much for the sub the twitch prime sub and He was getting a little nervous rightfully so Ben and rightfully so max blue and fall was going off and Not really Anything regarding health or anything like this just going off regarding censorship How is it possible that a platform will not allow its audience to listen to a certain type of conversation? Regarding their well-being Regarding the most important thing that's going on in the world right now in the last year like That's where sensor tube is and you're we're gonna be uploading to the sensor tube as well because we've got five other streams The odds are none of the five are gonna be uploaded to sensor to actually the Julian's song stuff might be okay But just imagine or will be okay Just imagine the most important thing going on in the world right now and the biggest video sharing platform prevents news Journalists from talking about it on the threat of Annihilating them off of their platform I've said this again, okay, or I'll say it again, and I've said it multiple times If you're into markets stock market and stuff like this if you're into gambling on that level a heads up The odds are family will be acquiring puts on alphabet ink in the next few weeks If not a couple of weeks if not next week. It is the death of sensor tube Okay, horrendous management horrendous management if you if you are a fund manager if you're watching this Or if you have stock in alphabet ink, this is not financial advice. Okay, but I would be liquidating that those that position a S a p there is a flood taking place right now on people are going off of sensor to And other platforms are getting growth mad Rumble is having What was it? 30,000% growth in I believe that's what the number was. I couldn't believe it like when I heard it 30,000% growth in the last year in Membership 30,000 We've done mathematics. This is sensor tube Here comes rumble and the other plot. This is sensor tube. Here comes rumble on the other platforms It's only a matter of time. It's only a matter of time. This is gonna plateau Okay heads up heads up heads up. Okay, and if you're in Working for sensor tube They're gonna downsize at some point.  Oh my god How are you doing? Hello from sunny Lincoln?  Yeah, I'd like Robert Williams man man, I Don't know what happened The gray zone is the best gray zone is awesome Kenny Roberts Hello gang scooty says and again scooty. Thank you very much to a twitch prime sub crunchy snack. What up? What up?   You're not even getting You're not even getting Getting the important parts of a discussion, right?  I use duck duck go There are other ones out there. Don't use Bing either binger Yahoo. Don't use the technocratic search engines, right? Duck duck go has been Phenomenal phenomenal There are searches you can do side by side. I've done this side by side Google here Duck duck go here do the searches and the Google results.  It's like searching for pie and you get And you get and you get results for tape It's like what why am I kidding? I'm looking for pie Google's giving me results for tape What? Something's something's mad wrong there, right? Meta dragons it is really astonishing just how fine the line of propaganda and misinformation is in the YouTube climate right now. You really have to use bias training more than ever right now Yeah, I'm night. I can honestly tell you how people fall in our discord that are following the links that I'm posting What is it gang?  Sure. You're on rockfin But man Rockfin is limited with what they're gonna do because they're not accepting all creators They're very select in the number of the creators are they're hitting the niche market You want to be in the niche market fine and dandy, right?  Do not just be on rockfin Okay, but and just so just so you know about a year ago I sent them multiple messages requesting to be to be able to Upload to rockfin and I never heard back from them, right? So there are multiple creators out there I'm medium-sized creator, you know 33,000 subscribers on sensor to even with shadow vanning, right? I can't even get on rockfin, right? That means they're really going on a niche market That only has limited exposure. So Jimmy Dory Make sure your or over is uploading his videos.  I kid get This is how You use Mekosia and save the trees. Oh, that's the one that they plant trees. Yeah, good idea.  Right Twitter is garbage. So Jimmy Dory needs to break off from Talking about Twitter and putting Twitter stuff up there.  Really? No one that really understands what's going on really doesn't They're not on Twitter anymore, right? I know gray zones on there and Matt is on there and stuff like this but they're they're on there because they have a lot of followers, right but Forget about it. Forget about it. Join the battle where it's taking place as Lark Barker saying Jimmy Dory is behind the eight ball. Yeah anybody that's Not on the other platforms, which is parlor mines gab bit cloud Getter the other ones man, you're behind the eight ball forget about talking to robots Forget about talking to automation Forget about trying to censor your words, right?  Stop promoting it. Disclaimer puts on Twitter Gang should we do a comic book? Huh? Should we do a comic book? What time is it? We're 14 minutes in that was my little intro on this deal. Let's do a comic book haul gang, okay? So this comic book haul right here. It's not a comic book. It's a trading card haul Okay, and for some reason I just went to just pop this open and it actually opened So I'm pretty sure this when it went through Border it was checked, but they never put tape on it again, which is really wacko. Okay, Mod Thank you for taking your business. Yes comics indeed. Let's check it out. Let's check it out So this was open. Okay, and I'm sort of like hey wait a second Okay, I don't like they went through it. Okay, so let me make sure this is what it's supposed to be Why no Oh We got we got maybe trolls going on check this out now.  Let me open up my thing. I'm a giggy Let me tell you how much this thing cost And you would have seen this before You would have seen this before You would have seen this before and for those of you that are listening to this live stream on Soundcloud Apologies if you're not gonna see what we're doing because this is also gonna be broadcast Uploaded as a podcast on SoundCloud. So will the stream later today. No sweetness. Sweetness. Sweetness Let's check this out. Let me tell you how much this baby cost this thing including shipping cost me a hundred and Thirty three dollars US. I bought it for a hundred and five and the rest of it was shipping and This time I didn't have to pay duty on this thing. This time. I didn't have to pay duty on this thing Okay Elder guy you got business taking care of your sword is sharp today. So check check this out gang Okay, check this out Check this out Hundred thirty three dollars now before we do this. Let me let me show you the other guys that we had Right, let me show you the other guys that we have now But why the go we did the reading for we bought The drug war trading cards, right? We did the reading for this whole set Right. We did the reading for this whole set drug history of the war on drugs right Amazing amazing amazing. It's on sensor tube on a playlist and it's on Rumble the shoot and Odyssey as well, right? The mod is on it like clockwork. Awesome. Awesome elder God Take him out. Take him out. Take him out. Now after we got these I'm gonna bunch of days We're gonna be doing a giveaway for these right during our yearly Points auction, right now Then we ended up getting The Iran Contra scandal which is We're gonna do the reading for this too, right all the cards, okay? So we're gonna do the full reading for all of these as well And then we ended up getting Could that die the assassination of John fk the assassination of John fk Right, and we're gonna do a full reading on all of these as well More history I Knew my war on drugs history really I've been I've been at this for a long time I've been I've been an anti-prohibitionist for more than a couple of decades now But a couple of decades full on right metadragons I am on the fourth issue of infinity gauntlet first time read through wow awesome awesome awesome and Read the silver surfer metadragons read the silver surfer Build up to the infinity gauntlet, okay read the silver surfer build up to infinity gauntlet regarding war on drugs I Knew my history on the war on drugs, but I didn't know my history on the war on drugs So if I didn't know my history on the war on drugs I can bet you majority of people if you end up reading this these Drug war trading cards by eclipse comics that came out in 1991.  We didn't get a box, right? So I took out The drug war trading cards. These are the ones, right? I took them out of this box and I put the cards that we had In this box right because I want to protect them and the cards we got were the dirty rotten scoundrels Right Dirty rotten scoundrels I put that on there right because we didn't we didn't get them we didn't get them, right? We didn't get a box and it cost us it cost us $180 how much did it cost us it cost like a lot of money it cost I should have it here Let me tell you how much it cost it cost it cost it cost a hundred and fifty two dollars us Plus I had to pay for duty when it came across the border thirty dollars So hundred fifty so cost a hundred eighty dollars plus without the box without the box without the box We got the box Check this out. So hundred thirty dollars including shipping duty taken care of right and we got the Rotten to the core. Oh shoot. I put dirty rotten scoundrels on there instead of rotten to the core Check this out.  It's not dirty rotten Scoundrels is a rotten to the core trading cars Rotten to the core trading cars that's sweet, buddy. Thank you Very happy to get this initially the guy who had listed this was selling it for a hundred and sixty us, right? And it went through a couple of times iterations where you had to relist it and then he finally kicked it down And I didn't have enough funds in my in my account to be able to buy it, right? But when I had enough funds he ended up I checked he ended up having it for a hundred dollars, right? And then it was, you know, thirty plus for shipping and whatnot, right? So we're rotten to the core trading cars the best and worst of New York City politics Right, let's look at this and there's two key cards that we really want to make sure we have here, right? I Think lark bark. I think the cat either disagrees the cat's going crazy. That's sal going crazy. He's like He wanted up here. He was I had some snacks here. He came in He was trying to get to the snacks, right? So I prevented them. So he's like, hey, I want the food Oh my god. I finally read my comics. I won on last night's Point for awesome.  The artwork is rough brother, but I think it was legit It was authentic. It was sincere and this is a go go boy comic books that I ended up printing from my Comic book publishing company that I had in 1990s and we published the first LGBTQ comic book series. Okay, continuing series super hero comic book continuing series and I had to print it I had to accept what the guy sent me and Put out that series and I'm very proud of it Even though the artwork is very rough. It is rough, but it improved and we were censored by By diamond distributors Check this out. Check this out at work. Gosh. So There's gotta be and it's got the thingamajigie in there too the description very nice very nice Check this out. Check this out We're looking for card. I forget what card it was Card number 26. I believe So these things are amazing That's our full fighting mode The added magazine. Hi, my parents were though. Oh, yeah, that's right. I sent you magazine because the LGBTQ magazine one of the largest magazines LGBTQ magazines in North America Put Google boy on the front page. They covered Google boy Comic book series that it was publishing in the 1990s. Okay. They did an interview with the creator That's how important the series Was and is right and just consider this The comic book the main comic book publishing company would not care yet, right? It's just letting people know right metadragons. I didn't know about your publishing company on the GPD run That's amazing. I'm super proud of it at the time I was like, what am I doing and the distributor refused the other books that I submitted at the same time and There's no way they should have refused anyway, we'll get into that story later. Check this out These are the type of cars there are right Donald Mainz, right? This is card And it's got descriptions in the back, right? That's card number 12, right? Let's keep on going find the find the find the gold man I hope it's in here. It should be Come on. Oh, yes, baby Nice and check this out. This one this card. I'll show you the this is card number number 26 and in the pictures The corner has a little dent in it. So the other one that I have that's in this one is in better condition But check this out Donald Trump card Donald Trump card. This is I believe his rookie card, right? I Think so anyway on this level Donald Trump with a plane in New York standing on his towers Or it might be no, it's got to be New York, right? And it's card number 26 Well worth the buy well worth the buy you can see the dent right there, right? Squished the corner Okay, so I'm not sure how grading works what grade this would be given But I'm very glad to have it in this grade. Okay, and the last card card number 36 is Rudy Giuliani Rudy Giuliani. These are the two cards that are worth a fair bit Like the Donald Trump card The Donald Trump card graded at 10 is listed at 10 grand on eBay I don't know if like if I if I was a millionaire, I'd probably buy it, but I'm not a millionaire Right. I can buy the whole deck before a hundred bucks or 130 bucks. I'll do that right very happy to have this second set of Rotten to the core trading cards ba-ba-ba-ba Box included Box included. It was a great deal. It was a great deal Okay, it was a great deal I'm gonna put this in here and here's a box again rotten to the core Rotten to the core trading cards. Where are those people on there? Well at focus Let's see Who are those people on there? I don't recognize any of these people. Look at the dog spot New York Buzzed New York or bust cool Very glad to have that Okay Nice collection here we go. We got four of them We got four We got four out of This guy goes like this. I think they produced eight Trading card sets in total and we got four Okay, and we got four Very nice. Very happy for this Right after a 14 minute intro on opening dialogue Spruce Weber Spruce Weber you didn't get banned first of all elder God is our mod and He he's very generous very generous very generous so you came on to the stream and said boobies and The he said, you know, just chill for a bit, but you kept on doing it I believe and then he gave you a 60 second 600 second 10 minute timeout All right, which I think is legit and this is the comment that spruce Weber just posted I'm gonna allow it and by the way spruce Weber twitch Auto mod zapped your comment. I have to approve it so when you do that when I have to constantly go through and approve things and you're Doing this and that then it takes away from the flow of things even though we can discuss it So if you have a point regarding boobies, let us know we can talk about it But if you're here just to yell boobies It's like having a teaching a class or being in a in a in an auditorium, right? We're talking about food and Some dingaling is keeps on getting up and going boobies boobies boobies usually you would you would call that person Disturbed maybe or very confused, right or a troll So which one are you all right because if you want to get on a booby live stream You should go to a booby live stream not a comic book Right, no the other guy said it. Oh, I don't know is this Bruce. I said it once. Okay So thank you for understanding I'm just protecting the stream. Yeah, and I agree with elder God. I agree with elder God, right? The other guy made a timely comment, which was funny with context. Was it okay? Sometimes we make mistakes by the way spruce Weber Sometimes we make mistakes and if we made mistakes our apologies, right? But right now there's a lot of things going on, right? So You know Be kind that's the name of the game really, right? Yeah, maybe he's spruce. I don't know if you're new here or not You're okay. We can have fun, but That is what it is, right? Aside from that gang that was our comic book stream and talking about people and we're getting a little message coming from our nightbot Don't forget gang free Assange free Assange free Assange Julian Assange is a publisher and journalist that has been crucified for trying to bring Transparency and accountability of capitalist power to humanity for more information see wiki-lease.org defend dot wiki-lease.org Or our Julian Assange on wiki-lease playlist on SensorTube and don't forget in the next two days. We're doing four live streams related to Julian Assange Incredibly important moments in history taking place right now okay, let's go to the chat and talk about whatever it is we want to talk about and You know I have some updates and stuff But that basically comes on as we're talking about it and don't forget We're gonna do our current events live stream starting at 2 p.m. Today 2 to 4 p.m. Today And that's not gonna be loaded on SensorTube Most definitely not loaded on SensorTube because I'm gonna let loose a little bit. Okay, so Oh, that's the key. That's running and hitting the table. So Right now for this for this stream We're just chit chatting just touching base because I haven't streamed for about a couple of weeks now, okay Peanut butter part pumpkin party. Thank you for redeeming 1,000 points. Oh And another thousand points peanut butter pumpkin party. Don't forget. Don't forget at some point Well, not some point in two months to three months. We're gonna do Auction where you can redeem your points where you can bid on them based on how many points you have for Items that we're gonna be listing and we're gonna have a at least four or five six decks of these that I'm gonna auction off To redeem with points on Twitch. So if you're okay with it, you can redeem your points whenever you want gang But you might want to hold on to them as well and redeeming when you want to build That's the kitty cats going crazy Awesome awesome awesome Yeah elder guy, you're doing an awesome job lark bark says I agree with elder God I Agree with the bark lark bark. I love the cars and the boobies. Haha awesome Padre spruce The guy used it as a punchline for the summarization of the open dialogue tangent. Did he okay? Yeah Our apologies Right, Ronnie. How you doing metadragons? This is an epic stream so far my word Going wild cats are going wild Scooty any cookie streams planned in the future no cooking stream. I Was planning doing some in this set But there was a decision that was handed down regarding Julian Assange's trial in the UK So I thought it was important to cover that in the next set most likely we're gonna do cooking streams, okay? Philosophy and pancakes man, maybe we should do a philosophy and pancakes. We started off her cooking streams with philosophy and pancakes So maybe okay, Scooty. We plan on doing okay? We plan on doing send me a reminder on this score. I'll put it into my to-do list Okay, the cats are losing it They might be sensing the energy level as well, right? Padre glad you got to see your family, bro Thank you me too me too and elder God as well I believe elder God went home after a year of not being home And I'm pretty sure a lot of people have done this as soon as it opened up a little bit go visit your family touch base okay, and I was talking to elder God on this court and Basically mentioned that this is us touching base with family before We go to the front lines, right? You need to ground get your bearings, right? Figure out what's important in your life before In preparation in the battle that is coming, right? That is already here. I would love a cooking stream me too Xander Greetings boss. Greetings. How are you doing? How's life like mark? And I heard Julian Assange looks awful, but unrecognizable. Yeah I heard that as well gang. If you don't understand what is happening to Julian Assange We are witnessing fascist regimes Crucify a journalist In real time In front of the whole world for those of us who are paying attention Never forget Muller's poem First they came Okay Never forget that poem Okay, thanks goody Thanks goody 19 months elder god, you hadn't seen your family. Wow Metadragons, I went and visited family. I went and played backgammon with grandma Right, I stayed with my grandma for a week basically Okay, and we would have breakfast in the morning and play backgammon right after breakfast And most nights when I came home not most nights, but some of the nights I came home when I was doing things We play backgammon, right? We touch base Right, and we celebrated her birthday 93rd birthday Right, it's good to still have a grandma. I don't think she will be around much longer, but it's good to have her My afghan friend kebabs just left to go visit family Yeah, not the best timing to say this. Yeah, not the best timing kebabs depending on where he is um Because we're about to see a Saigon moment with helicopters from The airport now and uh Kandahar, I believe it is that's where they're moving all the americans It's done, right Larkbar, they're doing a number on juli nissange. They're doing a number on humanity Okay, meanwhile They've got people Fighting against each other for the dumbest reasons, right? Padre my internet connection is horrible right now Uh might catch the other stream free assange free assange padre. Hopefully we see you at two o'clock today 93rd, that's a great age. That's a great age. That's a great age 93 years strong I doubt like I don't know how many of you guys think You might make it to 93 But I don't think there's gonna be too many of us to make it to 93 Kebabs, I don't think she's in the Taliban terror. She oh But as quick as they are advancing who knows for how long. Yeah There is serious stuff going on kebabs This is something that many of us in or some of us not many of us I was I was Telling people that this was the end game. This was the end result of what was going to happen back in 2001 2002 2001 really even before The decision was made publicly announced that they were going to go in there afghanistan That this was a very very bad idea People kept on dismissing it Let's see if people understand what the game is Right and mainly the game is to manipulate humanity To do the bidding of the oligarchs and the technocrats and the fascists right Grow force nbc just labeled con Concerned citizens Whether it be about covet mandates election results as possible terrorists. Yeah Now first they came never forget that poem Man, they were when they're when the patriot act hit Okay I try to talk to people and explain to them that what they're doing to others. They will do one to you And people dismissed it Okay, I'm not sure why it is that people Don't understand that when they Forfeit their rights to central power that central power central authority will do whatever it wants with that power including turning the guns on its own citizens to Commit genocide Right because that's what has happened throughout history. Why in the world that people think that it wasn't going to happen now Joe and by the way gang since we started getting on this topic Okay, I should have done this intro at the beginning, but from now on I'm going to do this little intro I will upload this to censor tube, but just to let you guys know From now on at the beginning of streams if I remember I'm going to state this to the people watching on censor tube If you see the stream cut short The full stream the full video will be on bit shoot rumble and odyssey Because it means we are talking about things that we're not allowed to talk about right, so Tell you what This is how long the stream is going to be that we're going to load on censor tube. Okay, it's about 40 minutes up time Let's check it out Up time Yeah, we're 40 minutes into this live stream the first live stream we're doing today. Okay and For those of you that watching on censor tube We'll have we're going to have to cut the stream and To watch this stream You're going to have to go to bit shoot rumble on odyssey your pick Bit shoots having some hiccups with longer videos that i'm uploading So if you don't find it there go to rumble on odyssey and the links will be in the description of this video And I can guarantee you this is the same intro that i'm going to do for the The two o'clock stream that we have regarding current events because that whole thing is not going to be loaded on censor tube either Okay, aside from that. Thank you for watching for 40 minutes. It is beyond my control. You're not allowed to Listen to the discussion Listen to information listen to people's concerns your brothers and sisters Okay, mothers and fathers Okay, friends and relatives You're not allowed to listen to them talk about whatever censor tube does not want you to talk about So in essence, you are in prison If you want to stay in video prison Video land prison continue to only watch video content on censor tube Aside from that there are multiple. These are just three video sharing platforms that are growing like mad And that's where majority of creators are uploading Most of their or all of their content if they're wise enough Okay, aside from that. I'm going back to the chat. Apologies about that little tangent gang Let's talk


One Football's app makes it possible to stay on top of the stats, the scores and all the transfer news, all in the one place. If you want to download One Football's app, simply click the link in the description below. It's the match reaction, it's Burnley won, Everton 5 did not see that one coming today. Following on from what can only be really described as a debacle at Gouldersen Park on Sunday when we were beaten 6-2 by Spears. Marco Silva made a couple of changes to the starting line up, went to three centre backs again for this trip to Burnley. The other bonus for us today was that Andre Gomez was fit, he limped out on Sunday and the worry was he'd be missing for the Christmas fixtures but thankfully he played today and we also had Garner back on the bench as well. And came out on within what three or four minutes we took the lead, a corner bent in by Leucadine, Cleared and Bernard does fantastically well, ships it, put it back in with his left foot in Yerrimina, plants that header into the roof of the net to give us the lead, does some mad little Yerrimina dance. And we built from that did me Leucadine scores a free kick, absolutely classic bains, left foot free kick, whips it in to give us a two goal cushion and then we get a three goal lead via the penalty spot. That was a really good spot by Michael Oliver in all fairness, it was tough to see. When he's seen the replay we could have been awarded the penalty for Michael Keane's shit, almost getting ripped off his back. As it was it was for Ben me having a game of the aisle basketball in the box. And Guilfe Sigurdden stepped up and I have to say I was very nervous, he's missed service last three, didn't look confident with his run up, I didn't knock him but he swept it into the bottom corner to give us a three in a lead.   Shame is Coleman, the cross comes in. It's too far for anyone Coleman, get it out of his feet, he's got the perfect opportunity to smash it down the line and just keep the pressure off us. And he tries to take the lad on and runs it out to play. From that you get a ball down, a ball into the box and pick for that to make it safe and you score from the resultant corner. I mean the goal from the resultant corner is poor as well. Whipped in Ben Gibson's summer, he's got a free header on the far stick. The kid that shouldn't, you know, it was a horrendous challenge on Coleman in my opinion. He might, he can look at it and go, well he's looking at the ball. Coleman cleared it and then got smashed about two minutes late. It was terrible. He should have been booked. I mean, Michael Oliver have booked Guilfee Sigarton for brushing his hand onto a player and then that goes just bizarre. Anyway Gibson gets up at the ball, I think it's the post and it's Michael Keynes off the line but everything just stand around in the six yard box. It's really poor, you know, we've got to want to keep clean sheets and make sure we're getting blocks in. The goal was too easy and for five minutes it gave them a lift that they didn't really deserve. It gave them a little bit of a futon in the game, not much, but you just don't open the door to these teams just awkward to play against. We got in at the break, three-one-up and then we came out the second half and after five or ten minutes we just kept them at arms length.  Had the opportunity on a couple of occasions to add a fourth wall cut, brilliant link up with Calvert Lewin and he put it across and I honestly don't know how Dom doesn't put it in. It's right across, it seems to go under his foot but then Luca Deane with another great strike with that left foot, arrowed into the bottom corner for Foreman and then it was literally, you know, jingle bells was getting sung by the blue noses behind the goal and Ritualysen added a fifth, late on, brilliantly, instinctive, lovely ball, yet he mean it into Sigarton, out of his feet and Ritualysen won't touch with his right foot and then just arrowed it in with the left foot. And that was it five-one and, you know, from the feeling the other day which was just, oh my god, I mean it, a couple of people sent messages to you hadn't been on Twitter, just swayed it for the moment because I can't have people who are saying, you know, saxilver and all that nonsense. But a few people sent me messages before the game, not happy with the team and what are you doing now and blah, blah, blah. Quite simple, he's the manager and that's why he's the manager, you know, cos he knows his players and that's some response. The response was there for the opening 20 minutes today. It was all you needed to see ever. My ride out of the blocks, pinching possession, you know, the amount of time you've won possession back and almost added another goal. Caldwell Lund on brilliantly and should have laid one off to Bernard. Bernard robbed Tarkovsky and raised in and should have got a shot if there was chances. But today you've looked at it, we've had six on target out of 13 attempts and scored five goals. You know, I think just off the top of my head, that's Evan's biggest ever away winning the Premier League.  We won a city five-two as well, I think that was just before the Premier League. But I can't remember just off the top of my head, us scoring five goals in a way game and winning so convincingly. So, you know, another big, big thing for us today was a great way to bounce back and pull some of those goals. Well, get the four goals back we gave up, basically the other day. So, yeah, so, you know, good afternoon's work by Marco Sildersman. Bounce back really well. That clean sheet still needs, we need to iron that out. Other than that, we defended really well because they are awkward and I thought, yeah, he means it was brilliant to be honest with you. Thought he had a really good game. Luca Dean was my man on the mat, absolutely fantastic because he just is fantastic, isn't he? And, yeah, and my thought Bernard was excellent as well.  But even so, the result was so frustrating. So, we go to Brighton now and I've just watched the opening 10 minutes of the air game. They're getting beat already by Arsenal, defensively, woeful so far in this game. So, it's another opportunity for us to try and build some momentum and hopefully, you know, get a few of the naysayers back on Sunday. Naysayers, back on side. Yeah, there you go. We've won five-one away from home. Incredible scenes, back to eighth now. So, you just keep going, keep adding to it. You know, hopefully the transfer window is up next week. Hopefully, Marcel Branser is there today. He's got his eyes on some players and we'll see where we go from now. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do so or only takes a second. If you want more videos, join us over on Patreon. Check out Pet's instant match reaction. The player ratings will be up soon. I'm going to do the three things as well. Other than that, continue to have, if you are, a fantastic Christmas. And if you're not, I hope that's made it a little bit nicer for you. See you soon on Toffy TV.


Hi kids! For today, let's talk about vertical distance and horizontal distance. By vertical distance, we mean height of the target from the ground. To tell the vertical distance of an object from the observer, we can use the words. By horizontal distance, we mean lateral width of the object from a certain point. And to tell the horizontal distance of an object from a certain point, we can use the words near or far. Now let's try to do some drills. Let's start with vertical distance. Which bird flies higher? Ring it. Right. Which frame is hanging lower? Check it. Which dragonfly flies the highest? Check it. Yes, correct. Which dragonfly flies the lowest? Mark it with X. Right. Now let's answer some drills about horizontal distance. Which farm animal is nearer the barn? Box it. Yes, the turkey. Which farm animal is farther from the barn? Ring it. Right. Which animal is nearest to the meal? Check it. Right. The pig. Which animal is farthest from the meal? Mark it with X. You may now try to answer the drills in your mathematics book, kids. Good luck.