Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ Interview Show, where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded Indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. Hi, everybody in All Things LGBTQ World. We're talking today with Rachel Desalets. I know her very well, but I am going to ask her a few questions because many people in the audience don't know Rachel how that's possible. I don't know. So, Rachel, I know you're from Maine. And what brought you to Vermont? My college roommate was from Vermont, so when we had vacations, I would come up here and stay with her family, and I just fell in love with Vermont immediately. And so, I lived in Boston for a while and moved to Connecticut, and I thought none of that worked for me, so I came to Vermont and settled in, and I've been here ever since. And that's been in the 70s. Wow. Yeah. So, it was just like your sole place or something, or you really felt comfortable. Yeah, I did, too. So, once you got here, you had to find a job and do all that kind of stuff. I know you had an interest in Korea, and you want to tell your audience just a little about that, Korea? Well, I've had actually primarily two jobs. One was I managed an inn in Eastburg, and we had cross-country trails, like 60 kilometers. Not that I skied them, but they were certainly available for people who were staying with us, and that was an interesting work. I got to meet lots of people, and it also allowed me to stay home. I was a single parent by that time, and I was able to stay home and be with them when they weren't in school. And then the other thing that I started, that sold, and so I started doing social service work and working as an advocate in the battered women's movement, and that was fairly new. I mean, it was like we were really building it up at that time because very few people knew what it was. If they did, they didn't talk about it. There was very little acknowledgment that it did happen, or it did exist, and that work, I did that for quite a few years, and that progressed over the years. As things started changing, then our work started changing as well, and we got pretty because we put an afford. I can remember when I first started working there, we had one telephone in the middle of the desk, and there were five women sitting around this desk, and when the phone rang, we all took turns because we couldn't afford five desks or five phones. It sounds like so crazy to work under those conditions, but we did it, and I think we did a lot of good work. And so I gather from your work and your life and knowing you that you're an activist in the community as well. One of the founding members, a rainbow umbrella from Central Vermont, and so me and Anne and your partner, Paulette, and you started the rainbow umbrella, Central Vermont. And so do you want to tell our audience why we did that, and what was the catalyst for that? Well, I think the catalyst was really that we were getting older. And traveling to Burlington, for the most part that's the only place that was holding events and activities, and we wanted to be involved in the community, and it was really getting to be more and more difficult to go to Burlington because it was always late at night, and we decided to do something for us, for our cohort. And so we started rainbow umbrella, and we started having meetings, and actually that's been going, I don't know if you remember, Linda, but I was thinking about that this morning, like maybe nine years, I don't know, but a very long time, yeah. So and we have been, although our work has changed, I seem to find work that always changes, which is probably not a bad thing, but anyway, you know, then our work changed, you know, as time went on, so, and that's been a very interesting process as well. I know it started out as kind of a social group, and there were lots of people, I mean, we met so many people from this area and still have contact with, which is great. And then as Trump came, it became more of a political group at that time, although it did have both components. Right, yeah, we did change our focus from, you know, social activities, because there was a lot of concern about Trump being president, and because Vermont is such a small state, it seemed like there was no reason why we couldn't come together as a state, and to look at and protect some of the rights, because we were really concerned about losing some of the rights and some of the progress we had made over the years. So we started an alliance, a statewide alliance, and we did work together, and that was really, it was a nice way to bring us all together. It's a small state, but we're also, it's not like our neighbors, if you're going to Bennington, let's say, you're still traveling a couple of hours. So it was a nice way to bring us together. And even during COVID, we were meeting, you know, thank goodness for Zoom, and the work continued. And we also had a couple of members who were liaisons to the governor, and so we were able to, you know, keep on top of what kinds of legislation they were looking at, making sure that language was the way that really spoke to who we were and what we needed. And I think that was really, and Keith and Brenda were part, or the two liaisons, and Keith had been involved with the legislature for a long time. So, and for the people who don't know, it's Keith Gosland and Brenda Churchill, correct? And Brenda Churchill was liaison to the governor, correct? Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was a great service right there. Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, it was also because we had to sort of figure out how we were going to work together, because every organization has its own little quirky way of doing things. And that was, because I'm all into process, I'm really interested in how things manifested where they go. And so that was interesting. And the thing is, we are not rainbow umbrellas or grass roots. We started as a grassroots organization. So we don't have paid staff. And I think now there might be a couple of other organizations, like I think Bennington is also organized through grassroots philosophy. But you know, everyone else has brick and mortar, they've got money to be able to hire staff. So, you know, you were really have you having to work with people with different abilities. And also, you know, people just learn to what was their strength and tapping into that and being able to have a nice working relationship. Yeah, because even though the state is small, that the demographics of different communities can be really, really different. Yes. Rutland's different from, you know, Montpelia, I mean, it has its own kind of personality. Yeah. And so it was really important to be in touch with what was going on in other parts of the state. Yeah, you're right. And the other thing to the other challenge for us in Vermont, and it's also, you know, a plus, because we moved here because it's rural, right? It's not densely populated. And that is one of the things that draws us to Vermont. Yet to do the kind of work that we're doing presents us with a challenge, because it's really very difficult to get into those outlaying towns. So, yeah. Lots of people are isolated in the country, you know, especially older LGBTQ people. So yeah. So I know it's been a lifeline to many people in the community. So I'm glad we're doing that. Movies. Now we're going to get into movies. And I know. And the Savoy doing a, what are they calling it now? Do you know, like, is this the Prague, where? Montpelia? Montpelia Pride is the umbrella for the whole weekend, the first weekend in June. And then my role is working with the Film Committee, and we're doing a film festival. So that's been pretty exciting. And that's why I was interested also in coming on to your show, because you and I've been going to movies, like, to the go to Savoy Theater in Montpelia, which is the Savoy. And, you know, we've been doing that for years. And then after the movies, we'd always, you know, just chat about the movies and have some, you know, good conversations that would either enhance the experience or it changed our mind about the film.  So I really appreciate you doing that. And so how did you get involved with this particular group? Well, um, we wanted to, well, let me step back. I think just before, I love movies. Yeah. And, but one of the things is the other thing that Rainbow on Abrola did is that we started organizing a film festival, like three or four years ago. And COVID came. Yeah. And here we were spending months and months. I mean, the nice thing about it is we got to watch a lot of movies. Yeah. Once we got the selection of films that we wanted to show, and starting producing, you know, publicity and ads for promoting the film festival, we were all then told that we couldn't get up, you know, we couldn't leave, we were housebound more or less. Well, not less, more. And so it never happened. And then when this came along, I thought, hmm, this will be a nice way to bring that film festival to a close as well. So I really jumped on it.  I've been working with some really gifted and some really pat talented people. So when you talk about when you talk about the love of movies, I've always defined it with three categories. They're movie fans. And then they're movie or film lovers. Yeah. And then you have your cinephiles, right? Yeah. And I don't know that I know enough to be a cinephile, but that doesn't stop me from going to films because there's always so much to learn. And it goes beyond just the theme of the film, but also you start looking at the cinematography, you know, it just enhances your experience of watching a film. So I started working with these talented people. And they were really committed to having a good program. And one that was expansive, so that it could showcase queerness in front of the camera, but also behind the camera, because we have a film where the two directors are queer. So and people a lot of people don't know that. So it's that kind of thing, I think, where people will learn more about these films as well. Because after each film, we're hoping to have a little either a Q&A or discussion. So how many movies are there going to be shown? Well, we have one starting on the Friday. Let me think of what day is that? That's June 2. Okay, June 2. Yeah. And so what we're doing is featuring the Matrix. I'm probably the only one who hasn't seen it. But I guess it's a, you know, a big film that people are really enjoying. And we're also hoping to get younger people to attend the Savoy and also to be involved because some of these films really speak to them. So I think you're going to be pleased with the range of films that we're showing. But that's going to be the first one. And the others? We have some more on Sundays will be all afternoon Sunday afternoon. But before that on Wednesday, there are going to be events all day long in Montpelier City. And I think is it Cal coming to do a show with Anne to talk about that? Because I know very little, I think he has an interview with Anne to talk about the activities on Saturday. But on Sunday, again, I don't have times because that's like in the future, in the future, it's a work in progress. And we'll have hopefully we'll have posters next year next week, showing the films and also the times. But one of the first film I think that we'll be showing is Oh, Liz and the Bluebird. I've never heard the other and I'm learning a lot from these folks who are on the the committee. But it's an animation. And that's pretty big as well. And it was interesting, because I was sort of looking at what we were organizing for years ago, looking at it through the lens of seniors, right? Because it was rainbow umbrella, who was sponsoring it. And now I'm working with a completely different team of people. And so the films that are coming forward are films that I've never seen. And also possibly don't know a whole lot about. So I'm being introduced to things like anime and manga. And it's like, they're so patient and teaching me all of this. And it's really exciting. Yeah, that that's going to be the first one on Sunday. Another film that we're going to oh, and that one is PG, content rating also. For your viewers, who are wondering whether or not this is for kids, because kids are really into animation. Another movie will be Paris burning, which is our one documentary. And that focuses on drag queens in New York City in the mid to late 80s. And then of course, this is my favorite, Desert Hearts. And yours too. Oh gosh, I wish we had known each other back then. I know that movie was out what in the 80s? Early 88? Yeah, 85. Wow. And it was it was the first film lesbian film. Yeah, that was shown on mainstream, mainstream theaters. So it was a big deal for us. I mean, I still sometimes am amazed. And it was also it had, you know, a fairly decent ending. I don't like, you know, in romance is always a breakup. And, you know, so this really brought something very different to the lesbian community. And also was exposing for the first time to the entire public that, you know, about we're, we're people.   And, and, you know, like, I'm interested to see about what I feel about it now as how I felt about it in my 30s. Yeah. It will be interesting because I haven't looked at it again. I'll look at it before it shows, but I need to look at it again. And it also when I was talking with the committee members, none of them knew about it. And so I think it'll be interesting. And what I'm hearing from them is that generation is not necessarily happy with what's coming out of Hollywood now. And they're more interested in old films that also give some type of history. And I think does it hard? Well, certainly, you'll be thinking of, you know, today and the privileges that we have today compared to what it was like in 85. So and then lastly, we're going to be showing we're all going to the world's fair. So although it's classified in the horror drama genre, my understanding is that it's not one of those junk scare movies, and that it's more psychological. So Mr. Sid is seeing that as well. Yeah. So it might be like in the, well, no, I guess that was that wasn't a game movie, but out was get out was pretty. Yes. So I guess that would have been classified as a horror film to one level. But anyway, I'm interested to see them all I haven't seen any except as it hurts.  And if there's anything you want us to put up on the show, for who to contact for information, we can do that. We can also put their website on. I'm sure the support has a website, right? So okay, well, this is all very exciting. And I think pride this year is going to be incredible. I think so too. All kinds of stuff going on and going on huge efforts. Yeah, get this off the ground. So if I can just add one more thing with the with the Desert Hearts movie, Rainbow umbrella has donated money to the Savoy so that anyone in the you know, LGBTQ community who can't afford movies, then this will help a little bit to get them in because we really are committed to make things available and accessible to, to the entire community. So thank you for letting me plug make that plug. And they're also doing a panel, right? I forgot. You and I believe it or not, we're still stuck together. We're still going girl. Yeah, we're still, we're still there. We're in. So thank you so much for coming on and letting our audience know about the festival and the other activities. And we'll direct them to the right place. And thanks, Rachel. Oh, thanks, Linda. See you at the next one. Is it what did Ebert and Siskel? How did they end there? I can't remember. See you at the movies or something like that. See you at the movies. The discussion group. All right. Okay. Thank you. Bye bye. Hi, everybody. I'm here with Kel Arbor, important person around Vermont. Kel has more energy than a lot of people I know, certainly more than I. Welcome, Kel. Thanks so much for having me, Anne. You know, I was looking at our, I was reviewing old shows and this is your fourth appearance. Oh, really? Oh, that's so funny. Did I do one as Vermont Cares? You did one as Vermont Cares. You did one as the Pride Center. And you did one as the Central Vermont Pride, which is the incarnation you're inhabiting today. This is exciting times. I have to clarify, we're taping on May 11th and the festival is going to occur on June 3rd. And this show is going to air on May 27th right before so everyone can, you know, prepare. Yeah. So I don't know if all the details are entirely nailed down, but let me describe it as you described it thus far on Facebook. Montpelier Pride Fest, Saturday, Saturday, June 3rd, kicking off with a sidewalk parade at one, music, lawn games, hangout, nonprofit resources and more. Events all week. This is so cool. Connecting to Barry Pride, June 10th.  You mentioned the Pride Center Vermont calendar, events calendar for full coverage. And you also mentioned community hosts and sponsors, including Fox Market, Rainbow Umbrella of Central Vermont, a worthy organization, if I do say so. The Savoy Theater, Barhill Ligon and the Vermont Symphony. And I know a lot of people were drawn to the symphony component last year. So this is great. Super excited. We were so grateful that the symphony could get another grant to have another free concert. It was one of our most well attended events last year and a lot of intergenerational attendees, which is always great to see the love of music and art intersects all of our communities. Exactly. I want to ask you, you and your colleague, Elaine Ball, were sort of responsible for doing it last year at a very successful Pride Fest on the State House lawn. What did you learn from that experience? And what are you going to do differently this time, do you think? Totally. Last year, Elaine and I connected. I had done a queer field day on the State House lawn really casually a couple of years ago. And just always notice how simple containers bring us together to let us emerge with what we need to have some active, I call it activity light. We've got some stuff going on, but it's really to get together. And then I heard Elaine was out there trying to brew, reinvigorate Montpelier Pride, which has happened way back. And there was the Stonewall gathering that you all had hosted and we have a large rainbow community. So Elaine and I had many community combos with not a lot of other organizing core people, but we've gotten a lot of community feedback. I've been doing bike rides through Montpelier. We kick off on Friday night with a queer critical mass bike ride. And for me, that's been a longstanding, really fun event around Montpelier. We had 50 riders come out for that last year. It was amazing. And to bring in the Savoy Theater, to do another film fest, we're always excited to collaborate with James and the Savoy. So we knew those were things that worked last year, but adjusting the the film fest with the Savoy that there were more community collaborators. So I've been poking people around specific events. Not a lot of folks want to get involved at the like four core. That's part of why Pride Center took it on as a program last year was to help hold some of the structure with tent permits and insurance. The boring stuff, the boring stuff. And then that the community can come in and do the fun stuff, plan the films and run the events that's been successful. So we look to do more of that in the future and engage folks. It was we had a lot of people last year that wanted a parade and a parade and shutting down the street is you have to have a police presence. And we do not want to have police presence at any of our fests because there is so much harm that comes from the police, that seeing cop cars and people with badges and guns is not a safer space for so many of our folks. So we work with community safety teams, the escalators, traffic control to do that tending and help hold. And then we're doing our parade as a sidewalk parade. So we don't shut down the street. We take the sidewalks and then during the main and state street intersection, there's a 15 second all stop at the intersections. We did a 15 second flash mob dance party.  So I love to encourage those edges of staying within legality, but pushing the edges of how we take up space. And that was something that we brought back again this year was the parade and it's going to kick off the past. So we'll organize and parade at one o'clock and then we'll circle back to start the music and other entertainment and resource tabling at the state house lawn. We've got a few different musical performers. We're still locking in some of our performer acts and then we've got a handful of resource tableers, Planned Parenthood, ACLU, Mosaic, Washington County Mental Health Services. Pride Center will be there. We did not have enough rainbow flags to sell last year. We didn't bring any out really to sell. So we'll do that this year so that we'll have some. We've got the progress pride flag and the trans flags and the non binary flags for folks that want to purchase day of. So that was an adjustment. It was a community asked to have the Bar Hill party last year. So we worked that in with the budget as an after party on Sunday and Dike night in Burlington's gonna post it. So it's open to all genders, but to have Dike night help host it will be a really fun collab with Bar Hill and then Savoy will do a Sunday film fest to Fox Market has a dance party Saturday night and the symphony moved their show to Saturday night. So that will be a nice all day Saturday with the fast, the symphony, the dance party, and then there's the poetry event that rainbow umbrellas co sponsoring with Robin Joy. There's the one at Kellogg Hubbard on the seventh on the Wednesday in between. And then I hope there's other small community pop up stuff during that week into the berry pride on Saturday, June 10th. They have a drag Queen story hour. There's another bike ride that weekend. So I chat with Erica and we try to collaborate. We set those dates weekend back to back so that folks could enjoy more of a central Vermont presence.  So it's cool to see the small ones pop up and we've kept Montpelier on the smaller leg. Let's keep it simple. We love badminton. We love our local resources, but we can't sell stuff on the state house lawn. Anyways, and we don't want big for profit rainbow washing. This is for the community and centering what we need and giving people some access. We'll get that big tent again from Natasha and Ethan Bogar. Beautiful homemade tent with maiden hair, maiden hair ferns screen printed on it. So there'll be some shelter from the weather. We learned what folks liked last year and just like observed what was like easy who are our go to like hangout spaces that we already love and enjoy building up our partnerships there and keeping that that the mic is it's not a speak out day. This is a day to really just enjoy and gather and have fun and celebrate to have no political speakers at the mic. I saw political folks last year. They came out to the bike ride. They were working the crowd in that relationship way. And for me, that's more impactful. They had their shirts and they marched in the parade with us. That was a nice political gathering and then to focus on art and hanging out together and didn't they have tables at the festival? I think we'd be open to like political tables. Elaine through the Facebook page. People can connect to me to at my pride center email and Elaine's doing the tabling focus. We're really focused on nonprofit local resources, but we're open. We're not trying to keep people out, but we are trying to be really mindful. Last year, we didn't put anybody's logos on the poster because we logos even one cute logo turns the community off and makes it feel corporate. So we like really slowly tried to shift that out. So it's like the only major sponsorship piece that we can offer out to a group is a logo on the poster. We don't have like big offerings out of the Pride Fest. So that really is like $2,000 or more sponsors to keep that really like low barrier and then using the QR code to have people go to the calendar page with all the listings where then we can web link you to the Savoy page to the Bar Hill page. We're still working out some of those like flow pieces. Some people are on Facebook. Some people want to see a poster in person. Some people just want to hear about it word of mouth. So, you know, marketing through all the networks and we are we're so hopeful to print a banner for the light poles. We're working with Montpelier alive. They did give us a grant again this year and we hope to print those light pole banners so that we can have a more peculiar pride image that we can reuse year after year. I don't know that we'll be able to get the flags on the flag poles again upstate in Maine, but that was a really high impact for me last year flying those progress flags. So you're planning for the future even, you know, beyond this event on the third. Yeah, we really want to like we picked early June because so much happens at the end of June and then the big Burlington Pride is in September. That works for us to have the big fast off of all the other smaller and then Essex is doing their first pride this year. They're also on June 3rd and it's really cool to see from tip to tail of June, little pride fast, big pride fast all over the state of Vermont, Springfield, Newport, Brattleboro, Essex are all having their first pride this year. That is fabulous. That's really encouraging.  The whole area is percolating with pride for all month and then, you know, theoretically beyond that. So Kelly, you're doing great work. Thank you so much. We're trying and I think there's always things that we learn as we go and how to, even if we're not getting community members out at our scheduled meetings to organize, how do we get that community feedback? And that's how do we do that earlier in the year? Meet with some of those groups or have those easy ways to say, this is what I want. This is what's missing so that we can put that programming in because the pride center, all of our programming comes out of community need and it's really important. I mean, it's good feedback to know what's not working, but I more want to know what people want. Like what do you want to see for an event? I don't drink alcohol hardly at all anymore. So having non bar centered, non bar centered events, like, yep, we've got our couple bar takeovers, but all that other stuff too that is multi generational is not enough alcohol venue is during the day. Lovely. You have three of the national concerns are police presence, politicians and corporate funding and it seems like you've got very clear positions on that. Do you accept corporate funding? It's something Elaine and I talked about this year with are there when I think about budgets, I think about how much do we need for the event? And let's find that amount of money. Let's not just get money to get money. That doesn't work for me and you're more apt to get people that just want to like throw money at you, put a logo on their poster and check it off their list. I don't want that. I personally want to see building up relationships and developing up Fox Market is a great community support space. And so they've been a really great sponsor to court. They do a month of tips. They give us their tips for the month. The Symphony Orchestra, they were so wonderful. That's that's a pretty big like nonprofit sponsor. I would love to see darn tough get in down the road. I know they're a really great LGBT friendly workspace same with national life. I think we're we're just not sure how and we're not connected to those places with their development teams, but we want if there's going to be corporations that their value aligned with us. And the police are not value aligned in terms of how much harm comes out of that institution and how the police have come up through slavery and locking up black and brown bodies. So standing up and with racial justice, being gender inclusive, being multi generational that young that it feels like it's something for young people and for those of us who are older can be complex. So trying to move slow and work with the networks that we pre existing have and then build up as we go. But I haven't found a big sponsor around Montpelier that really makes sense. There's not. I know. And you know, to generalize the whole corporate approach, I was talking to a friend yesterday who was part of organizing the Las Vegas Pride, and he was saying, you know, they had merchandise and the corporate sponsors wanted to add, you know, so they could make a profit, you know, jack up the price for the merchandise.  We don't want to do that. So, you know, it's complex. It's complex, as you say, it is complex. And partially us using the statehouse lawn locks us into something that you can only sell on the statehouse lawn if you're part of the farmer's market. So carrier coffee can come over and sell. There's somebody who we invite over. So there's not really a lot of vendors that can come out and actually sell wares. And having that, you just made me think about Oh, Hannaford, I think has been a great example of when I started at the Pride Center last year, I had curiosity around how do we use our rainbow power to help positive peer pressure call in Hannaford to just engage with talks around milk with dignity. How do we use pride as a carrot was my ask to Mike Bensel, our exited executive director. And Mike started that conversation with migrant justice and the word from other orgs is we don't recommend you don't take the money. But we were like, but we don't need to take their money and us not taking that sponsorship. Sure, we'll have to find that money elsewhere. But the value of our relationship with migrant justice is so much bigger than dollars. And that opportunity to call in Hannaford that we could do some pressure that isn't putting pressure on workers to do a strike, workers shouldn't have to strike. We can community boycott, though, I don't ask for donations from Hannaford. I if somebody wants a food card as an incentive from Hannaford, I will honor that, but I'll also ask, is there another grocery store peeling their labels off of donated food could be another strategy to so that you get the food, but you don't get their branding. That's really good. I'm totally in favor. I bought a lot of things, but I'm usually just one person. Right. And how many I mean the the Hannaford love tote with the rainbow with the love. How often do I see that out there because we want to flag ourselves as LGBT QIA to us plus people. So we carry their merch, but it's a PowerPoint that if I have to shop at Hannaford for whatever reason, I don't have to be branded by Hannaford. Right, right. So back to the festival, are you going to have one MC? I can't seem like you had one MC last year. That's an adjustment to and I always am wearing 17 hats and then have to do 12 other things. I know. So this year we'll have somebody running sound. A local person is going to do the sound. We've got a couple local community supports for the mic to help performers and just intro the couple of acts and then Elaine will do like a little welcome intro as the parade comes back and hopefully I'll just be tabling and schmoozing the crowd and hanging out. I remember you just giving your water. Yes, at one point I was giving out water. Oh, it was great. It was a couple of service. It was so nice. There was a local community person that bought a couple of cases of water for us to give out and a couple of med kits. So wonderful. It's like we there's so much support. We I think we had three to 500 people throughout the day come through the fest last year. We put it right after the farmers market. So there's already folks downtown. It's sort of the buzz of the time during the day on a Saturday. And it's free parking on Saturdays in Montpelier. So it's that's nice. It's the parade's going to start at the state house and then what's it through? We'll go down. We start at the state house at that upper road and go back through the downside. Is that into is it school street that goes across one of those bridges? It's like that upper road that cuts like behind goes by the laundromat and then across the bridge to Main Street. I think it's School Street. We'll do. Yeah, not Elm, but the one just below it and not Langdon, the one between Langdon and Elm. And then we'll come down Main Street, break across all four of those intersections to do our little dance moment in the crosswalk. I love encouraging feistiness with the youth and then we'll continue down the sidewalk and loop back in the front side of the park from the state street side so that the fest can welcome us back in will parade back into it. We had over we had over 100 people in the parade last year, which was so cool to see the excitement. So I'll bring my big flags again and we love when people dress up. The youth always look the best. No, I know. Okay, this is really fabulous and very exciting. I'm excited. What are your last words? Any other comments? Encourage people to come, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just to come out to any of the events for me pride is a season of reconnecting and connecting to community. Sometimes we move here, especially through the pandemic. We don't know anybody yet. So I last year I met so many people that had moved and to be able to do that welcome that high. Now you know somebody in your local community. We're not trying to draw people from all over, although yeah, that's great. Like it's a cool destination event. I've never been to Montpelier. Great, I'll go for pride. But we really want it to be centered around the local, local center remote community that if you don't feel isolated, that is life saving. So just knowing that there's rainbow community in your community, even if you don't see them all the time, that really can fuel somebody's sustainability to live in our community. And it's so festive. I mean, there's no, at least from my experience, there's no it's not a cruising scene. It's not a bar scene.  It's just fun and you can cruise if you want to cruise and casually. It was the badminton was like, I literally had to take the badminton out of children's hands at the end of the day. As soon as I put it up, I was like, oh, I love that we love badminton so much. That's so well, this has been fabulous. I'm very psyched up. I'm certainly going to be there. We were there last time and we'll be again. So and thank you for doing this. This is a great service for all of us and it's fun. My pleasure, and I've got to find out the date from Keith when we there is a first pride that happened in Vermont that probably wasn't Burlington, even though there's been a lot of 1983 was the first that was Burlington's first pride parade. But when was Vermont's first pride? So I'm on a sleuthing mission. It feels very aligned for the Pride Center that we would help bolster and hold Montpelier as the capital, as a community that doesn't really have a strong set of organizing in this moment in time that I could help be that person as someone who lives in that town and works at the Pride Center to hopefully help get those local folks that want to do a long term pride planning. It's most powerful. I find when we organize our own events and not for profit. Exactly, not for profit under school. Yeah, we're not doing this for profit. We're doing this to be able to get the money to do next year as fast. Exactly. And none of us get paid. So right. But it's not about that, as you say, well, I agree entirely, Cal. You're forced for good in central Vermont and elsewhere. So thanks for doing all you do. Likewise, and thank you so much. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.


All right, welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa away from all the press that we have mercy joining us Why do I feel like a special guest on the show special guest? Well, it's good to be it's good to see you first of all And it's good to you know, thank you so much. It's actually not black. It's navy blue And it feels great to be back in this beautiful Tuesday morning Morning, I mean if you if you know what's going on in the city of Lagos then you would understand that you know It's so difficult. What a time to be a Nigerian But however, we're hoping that you know, all of this would be resolved and then of course so would actually you know Move on and move forward. Yes Nigerians are actually biting, you know and feeling the biting effect of you know the fuse Cassidy and I got mercy And the fact that it causes the traffic that's the annoying thing in Lagos. It's just Horrendous, it's just terrible. So it's a combination of the fact that you have fuel scarcity That's on the one hand coupled with the fact that there's a lot of rehabilitation work going on in different parts of Lagos I mean majorly you have the VGC at your axis. I mean being that that work I really don't know what's going to happen that rehabilitation work is also constituting Naturally, you would say that Lagos would always experience, you know the traffic But with all of these activities the fact that people would have to queue up Feeling stations you have them on the road by the roadside and so longer time So all of the queues making the roads very narrow, but we need to move away this morning looking at the first major conversation as the issue of the constitutional amendment and the Proposed items or the items that has been considered now in Continuance of its constitution amendment process Niger's houses of parliament and the National Assembly comprising the House of Representatives and the Senate voted on 68 proposed amendment to the country's constitution a move on President since he was drafted on the the military rule in 1999 and these proposed amendments were the result of zonal hearings held across the country in 2021 the voting saw the National Assembly grant financial and administrative autonomy to all local governments in the country They voted for independent candidacy in elections and separated the office of the attorney general of the Federation From that of the minister of justice however lawmakers voted against the pension for presiding officers of the National Assembly and rejected Veterally all provision designed to improve women inclusion in Nigerian politics and society now some of the bills passed on Tuesday There was yesterday include financial independence of the state houses of assembly and the state judiciary moving of airports from exclusive lists to the concurrent legislative lists and Allowing states to generate to transmit and distribute electricity in areas not covered by the national grid Others also include a bill that sets a time frame for submission of names of ministerial and commission on nominees and others And also a time frame for the conduct of census one that enshrines free and compulsory basic education as fundamental human right Now it's actually a very lengthy one But some of the bills which were thrown out by the lawmakers bordered on the termination of tenure on Account of political party defection That's diaspora voting and procedure for overriding president's veto for Constitution alteration and the virtual court hearing also immunity for presiding officers of the National Assembly Heads of judiciary was also rejected at this point in time We will be being we're going to be joined by a lawyer and a former speaker of the cross-eval state house of assembly John Gall labor Good morning John Gall labor school to have you join us no message before we take John We understand that we have the video of him how it went down just give you a summary of how it went down yesterday and they will come talk to John and We have so much to talk with to John about because I really need to understand some of these great areas in a moment And John will be joining us So all of you are aware of the acrimony that almost existed and the legal altercation that took place in river states with regards to that Now the Constitution is saying That the vats is reserved for the exclusive lease has made it clear That is how it's going to be so you belong to the federal government So we are also gender sensitive parliament like we mentioned in our legislative agenda That we're going to project gender Issues to give them the fairness that they desire as well as the quality that they desire and This constitution is asking for special seating legislature for women both National Assembly also the house of Assembly all to the Nation beyond that also affirmative action for women in political parties So it's going to be you know a space for women because they are more in number This constitution is saying we are recognizing you even our political party Affairs and the women in the house work so hard to make sure that this come to fruition especially My own dear sister honorable Kiru. Oh, no Georgia The work so hard to make sure that this is achieved for women and I think Nigerian women are going to remember them for a very long time well, and that's it joining us this morning to make sense of the Constitution amendment that's as been ongoing is the former speaker of the cross River State House of Assembly John Gall labor Good morning. John Gall is good to have you join us. Good morning. My pleasure to be here All right, so John, let's get straight to the crux of the matter Do you think that the items on the Constitution amendment items on that bill to be amended is relevant to Nigeria and It reflects the immediate needs and concerns of Nigeria at the time Yes, I think so constitutional amendment is usually an ongoing exercise depending on the circumstance of the fact Each case and depending on the issues You talked about The other time the foundation of any constitutional means public airing that means that as you go back to your Constances to all this public hearing you feel the force of people look at the other to find the needs and the areas of Priority so you form the business the main reason why a lot of items may be dropped at it after public hearing If the main reason why a lot of items may be added after public hearing is amazing why at the end of voting So the items that were earlier If you think that public hearing may not be taken so everything is dependent on the needs of society and the circumstance of this case If you look at the items rate, you will see that Partly the issue of the traditional power is quite necessary now We need it moving forward at the country to be able to achieve The true federation and then also the issues of the independence of the legislature the independence of the local government systems and the independence of the judiciary is also an important issue Against this because some persons are saying the issue of insecurity has not been I mean There's no that's really nothing to actually address the issue of insecurity And then we look at the major concern how you know funds have been shared I mean talking about the federation accounts the issue of restructuring He doesn't really talk about restructuring in his real sense how you know fund should be shared now You have some proponent who was saying that we should have been considering the 1963 Constitution that allows you know region at a time it was a regional Government that we practiced before we now and had the state government where you have the 50 30 or 50 20 and then the 30 to the polls and Some people are saying this does not really really reflect the needs of Nigerians at a time I think that This exercise He actually like that the legislative agenda is towards the setting area and then it is because of the legislative agenda that they identify the issues That's currently before the house now when you look at the issue of a devolution of power You're moving towards restructuring basically You cannot deal with restructuring Without looking at the foundation of the geopolitical zone the recognition of the street of the same geopolitical zone first Whatever You're talking about in terms of resource control also has to be there too, but we have not gotten to that point Our democracy is still not right to that point We are still practicing the unit system of government in a democracy in the sense that you have a strong federal government And then you have very weak state and completely absent local government system Now gradually with the amendment that is being proposed. I'm sure by the time we get to the next assembly You begin to see more items Now we're looking at the issue of the volition of power for instance the issues that were taken just involved the issue of power generation by state the issue of Rewire and all of that these issues are too minor. Why what why didn't they take the issue of Salim in Iraq in states? They're still critical area So you see this the National Assembly is still very protective of this of the federal government because they are also part of the federal government They are the legislature of the federal government so they're protecting a lot of these issues You have rape on behalf of themselves and the federal government now you talk about the issue of Security and insecurity is difficult to bring up the issue of security and insecurity in the Constitution because the Constitution only provides for a Framework for a security management. That is why you have what the first framework you have The various institutions you have the police you have the army you have the Navy You have the civil defense and all of that if you want to deal with the issue of security properly You have to go back outside of the Constitution to the loss of the sedition look at the police I've noticed certainly the last year or so the police act was amended to deal with the order Problem with the police is like someone that has the cancer The country in one day and the same thing with the army You know a long period of time, you know that you can't be in the issue of any by one simple simple constitutional provision so this constitutional exercise amendment some of the same as Projecting process and it should be there to instrument only we need to be able to be patient with them And then we also need to be very We need to produce constitutional activities who deal with the issue and raise the boundary of I get an agenda that the National Assembly should be within the constitutional amendment for the National Assembly I think going on now It is completely under their control the economy what they want to take a raise the issues that we need to consider amendment And then all of us flow from there. All right, Mr. Lebo, let's talk about some of the provision Thank you for giving a bit of a background concerning all that I'm Nigerians expect, you know From this some fifth and alteration, you know, there has been so much talk concerning them true federalism I want us to stay on the VAT, you know, for instance and Lagos did an aquarium. They are hailing the fact that The Senate and reps have retained them VAT on the concurrent list No, it's as though the federal government is losing out as it were, but is this you know a good development in your opinion Yes, I think it's a good development in my opinion and Because first I will I will just try to like like to do with the first the first issue Nigeria has that may be very difficult for us to develop is the fact that certain laws that have been provided and certain items in the exclusively stated list is If you continue to retain them, Nigeria is going to get into the best Developing the first of that is VAT. The second is revenue mobilization law revenue mobilization law That's we have it now in Nigeria the company in the world is such a law a law That is driven only to generate and share a law that does not encourage the Local government and the various regions of Nigeria, you know to be look on their own the law that is particularly like Revolving to be last case in the case of difficulty if the state cannot generate money Why are you sharing from the National Conference? If the reason why our GDP cannot grow the reason why our phone is not grow Because we have to share that revenue mobilization law is one of those laws that need to be repealed or amended to meet the Accidents of this the second issue is the issue of VAT I mean, I don't know in terms of those domestic product of every country the GDP But the growth of the country if you look at the GDP is the geographic is a zonal issue if you look at the America for instance, and you see that America with a 24.2 trillion GDP some states like California have three point six trillion GDP just some states like New York has one point nine trillion GDP that state in America Now if you check at the economy of Russia the GDP of Russia, the state of California is the state of Russia the state of New York is the state of Russia That is how it's supposed to be now with the VAT system You are muddling everybody under one GDP control system You're muddling everybody under one the bloc and country system legal state by The GDP of Lagos is about the shift of six leaders Come it will be a three to sixty-two country in Africa A private state will be about nine and give us to be about eleven But at this rate the structure that we have where the VAT is exclusive on the federal government control You have some states like in the north Town they don't consume alcohol the bulk of that VAT comes from consumption of alcohol Then you centralize collect all and then share it to them The person who does not consume alcohol because the skill is is a crime or is a leisure thing But it shares in the market is wrong. They are not you're not supporting productivity You're not the bloc in the GDP and this state will not continue. I know the reason why The federal government is very angry because this is for the disorderly the Supreme Court is going to deliver judgment This much I think around 15th or 16th of March and that and what that judgment is doing every week Nigeria is on the path of progress and development Okay, but just before you know We also look at another issue because the issue of local government as much as we have said that the local government Is also a third tier of government and it should be treated, you know with some level of independence Just as you have the federal, you know, the state and of course the local But some people are saying that creating because you know, you have this bill seeking to create Um, you know special funds for the local government that shouldn't be the concern of the federal government It should be within the jurisdiction of the state government and it still brings us back to the issue Why we do not because if you still talk about all of this it boils down to, you know state controlling their resources And going back to the regional system where you have states, you know Having 50% of what they actually generate and they can send 20, you know to the You know center and of course 30 can actually be distributed amongst the units as well So What are your thoughts on this one now local government should be should it be a consent Should the federal government be bothered about creating special funds for You know the local government or should that not be the concern of the state government? Okay, first of all the federal government should be concerned and the reason why the federal government should be concerned is that the local government Is the third tier of government as you have the federal you have the state you also have the local government Because the federal government is concerned about state they're even engaging in bailouts of state The federal government should also be concerned about local government That's one without the local government structure or system There will be no federal government of the new state government. So the federal government should be concerned The second reason why the federal government should be concerned is because This they basically 80 or 60 percent of what the state government used in terms of funding to run the state and the Local government used to run the local government come from the federal allocation account to the revenue mobilization So the money in the first place does not belong to the state per se Is given to them by the federal government and the local government also get the funds as well from the federal government Now what the state government has done is to bridge a gap take over the place of local government around the local government in their own style and manner Is a is a big problem. One of the reasons why we're having a security Is because of the non-existent local government system where the chairman of local government supposed to be chief secretary officer of the Local government is that the appointee of the governor is nominated and appointed by the governor through an election process And then when you have the councilor They are also like the appointees of the chairman of local government where the legislators will not have security Let's make it both where the local government security As architecture including security boats are not available The state government don't make funds available to the dialogue. It's the funds to local government like ministries and departments So it's a difficult issue The state government ought to take responsibility But at the point we are the federal government must play a role in providing a local government reform system I'll give you a typical example Number one if this state today has a ministry of local government The way that the federal government not have the minister of state In for in charge of states a minister who is super intense over all state governments No, you don't have that By the federal government but at the state they have the commissioner for local government He's literally the super chairman of local government. Then you have the local government service commission Now you mean that the local government service commission and the commissioner for local are all appointed by the governor Now we also have issues like primary health care. You have issue of Primary education and all of that. They are all there to buy the state government Now when you look at the appointment the management of primary health care The governor of the state appoint the did you or the staff of the primary health care When you look at the staff of the local government system Is appointed by the local government service commission and the commissioners are also appointed by the governor So when you're talking about special funds for local government The first thing you need to deal with is to deal with the administrative autonomy of the local government system first Unless you dissolve the joint Allocation account, which is currently in existence And unless you take away That of the administrative responsibility of local government I would only be taking away by them by state government ministries and agencies The ministry of local government are taking over 80 percent of their responsibility The commissioner for local government are taking away 80 percent of their responsibility The local government service There's no local government chairman today in Nigeria that can recruit staff into his local government You want staff you go to a local government service commission they recruit for you You want the staff you're in the local government Medical department you go to primary health care agency appointed by the governor You want staff for primary school you have to go to primary school management board as the case may be So as far as i'm concerned there's no local government system The local government system is part of the ministry of state government So this amendment is not for me is not enough to deal with the issue As long as the governors are not ready As long as the governors are not ready and as long as the local All right, uh All right, Mr. Lebo because of time there are lots of unprovisioned A lot of unvoting staff that were done yesterday But I just want to ask uh, which are Which of them were the major highlights for you because uh, uh, the national assembly also rejected pension for presiding officers Of our legislature the client down part override the president's veto Turns down proposal for special seats for women in legislature among others Which of them actually hit you as by really very very striking Um, I feel that the independence of the judiciary is quite critical very fundamental and important Because you know the judiciary is the hope of the common man and the last man and if we check In terms of our evolving democracy the judiciary has played an important role in determining What is right and what is constitutional now with the new electoral amendment system We need the judiciary to sit up to be able to put this right because you can see that politicians are still not ready To abide by that new electoral We've seen violence in different elections across the bi-election that I heard this week So you need the judiciary to stand up. So that's standard for me The second is the autonomy of the legislature. It's quite important No matter how various legislators have been hijacked and substituted by governors They need the House of Assembly to be autonomous in terms of their finances If the House of Assembly has autonomy It will not be able to sit down legislate and provide for the autonomy of the local government system Where you have the speaker and the House of Assembly members who don't have their own autonomy They will not even value the autonomy of the local government system The thought is the autonomy of the local government system and the fact that this time they have actually dealt with the issue of administrative autonomy of the local government system Again, abrogation of jack the joint allocation account commission. I mean, that's quite Good, then I'm also impressed with the devolution of powers You know, I I wish they had gone further into other issues like mining and all of that But the fact that they're there to be away the fact that they're there to power generation and all of that Is a sign that they have started so far the exclusively is too Packed up for the federal government. We need to be congested and move a lot of items to the concurrently So that is good for me I'm also not impressed with the fact that the drop the issue of women and then They are controlled in terms of Political offices, you know, I feel that that issue ought to have ended I don't know what this question is with the independent candidature You know, and then so is another issue then the office of the attorney general separately the office of the attorney general Quite critical. I doubt if the president would give a sense Social, but I feel that it's also very important and then trying to override the base of the president Is is is okay, but I doubt if the president is going to ascend that if the president himself would sign out himself The authority to ascend to the constitutional amendment I doubt either will happen, but I feel that there's quite a lot of issues and hopefully Looking at the next amendment. They should be able to deal with that issue. I hope they achieve They get the president to be able to ascend to some of these deals when he's Come on tonight for the appeal to the president for us John go lego One of the issues that I've actually, you know, really played us as a country and where we are right now As the issue of revenue generation if you look at it, it seemed to be a very, you know, huge problem A lot of persons would actually think that this constitutional review and amendment process would consider You know the funding formula funding formula Maybe find ways to allow, you know state to actually take advantage of For instance cross river states blessed with, you know, natural resources Let them, you know Harness it and generate their revenues for themselves and manage it Because that's a major problem. The idea of having to go to the center to collect, you know Handouts as some people will call it has really not taken us anywhere far with the fact that you have a lot of divestment Going on right now. You have some of these companies Divesting and then, you know Stakeholders are coming up with one or two policies, but that's on the one hand Another fundamental issue that some persons have said they say the 1999 constitution says we the people The fact that we the people never gave a consent to that constitution A constitutional amendment can never solve the problem We need to get to a point where we have a representation of the people and of course talk about the interest So this constitutional amendment process some people think that This does not solve the problem of we the people where the people originally were not represented What brought about the 1999 constitution? I'd like to show your thoughts on that Well, first of all Let's go back to the basic issues If you have three arms of government, you have the legislature whose responsibility is to pass And amend laws and you have the executive whose responsibility is to run government and the policies of government You have the judiciary that Will give justice and interpretations and revisions of the law We mean that you have a source the powers of making laws and setting Or a responsibility to the warmth of the dreams of government Now when you are when you have a mixture where you have appointed You have you have voted for your senators and members of the House of Representatives and the House of Assembly You have a source the powers to make laws to amend laws and to the constitution to them So let's go back to the basic issue. The basic issues that Nadira has a very poor merit architecture system for governance and leadership to send very poor Inequipped people to the legislature. The legislature is like a place for political contractors You know, you go there and you find people without any background understanding of what the issue should be So it is the quality of what you're finding now in the national in in constitutional amendment It's dependent on the quality of the legislators that you have I mean you have You have you cannot run away from the fact that equality legislature should be able to deal with the issue Devolution of power as it relates to revenue control And as I've been I was speaking across the space and I know that the legislature Was judging on sabbatical when I say on sabbatical because most of the issues that would have formed the base of Our legislative assembly have already been quarantined to the federal government On that the exclusive means to work with us is just to sit there and take resolutions from government and pass it and then approves The budget and then setting resolutions to go on. We do have this new series of assembly that has to be content of issues to deal with All right, Mr. Libo Thank you for all of those insights that you have shared another Provision that people feel on Nigerians feel should be looked into is that of citizen by marriage as it is right now all we have is that One on Nigerian man, you know gets married to a foreigner automatically. She becomes a Nigerian But that's not the case, you know when a woman, you know Marry is a man from out of Niger. What do you really think? Johnson, I think I think I think we thought it's the same thing. What's talking is about our Our cosmopolitan intelligence. We are developing very slow because this issue should have been It's not an arguable issue. It's an issue that should be dealt with There is a minimum international benchmark and standard for citizens management across the world And it is shuffling the Nigeria versus problem with that issue It is the quality of our representation the quality of our Our of the of the national assembly and the quality of human capacity that we have in government That's causing this. I feel that these issues we have been dealt with if you provide Any woman or in the human is a Nigerian should become an agenda the standard all over the world I wonder how are they laying about that? So I feel that we need to deal with that quickly. I'm also impressed with The diaspora voting if the asset can be given is also another issue that Is bent benchmark. I feel that we should keep moving Unfortunately, there are not the target as we expect, but given the infrastructure we go to deal with that Let's produce more constitutional activists to formulate issues for the national assembly That will form the basis of the future constitutional amendments All right, many thanks John Gaulebo. We appreciate your time this morning and making our time to be part of the breakfast We look forward to sharing your thoughts on some of these issues as we proceed Thank you very much All right, John Gaulebo is a legal practitioner and a former speaker of the cross river state house of assembly We definitely continue to discuss the great top on the list has been the fact that the women will be protesting as regards Uh, the special seats or the special seat No, not the marriage issue majorly I think the concern is about the fact that women and not uh, you know Include that given the the additional seats that were supposed to be created for women and the representation at the end of the day That's also another one. And so, um, let's see how that pans out. Maybe just maybe this law makers may kind of reconsider That particular one, but that's it. We step on the brakes right now when we return we'll be looking at our second topic Stay with us


So we hear the supercomputing conference and who are you? So I am and I work out of Sandia National Labs. So what is the Sandia National Labs? Well, we're a DOE facility based in New Mexico, the United States, high performance computing and lots of engineering problems. So do you work on all kinds of what the future of supercomputing is going to be about? Yeah, so we're busy working on DOE's exascale vision at the moment, so that's technology that should be around in the early 2020s. Exascale? Exascale, yeah. That's like a vision people would like to reach some kind of, what does it mean? Because it's a thousand times faster than pedascale. So that's loads and loads and loads of calculations every second and most of that means just really fast simulations, so a thousand times, think about a thousand times faster to solve the same science problems. But aren't some people saying this is not going to happen? Some people are saying that, but we're working our hardest to make it happen and we're pretty confident we're going to get there. So how fast is the fastest supercomputer right now? It's about 20 petaflops, so we've got about 50x to go. So we've got, it's a long way to go. So 20, like is it the Chinese one? Is it 20? Chinese, well the largest DOE is 20. What is DOE? The Department of Energy, so that's the largest one. American one? For us it's 20, it's American one. Yeah, in China there are 20. In China there are about 100, so they've only got 10 times to go. And so you're going to do 50 times faster in the next five years? Hopefully before then. Before, so that's faster than Moore's law, right? What do you call it? Sandia's law, what do you call it? Yeah, faster than Moore's law, yeah. So is it because you don't focus on floating point as much, you don't care about the floating point, you're doing all kinds of other specialized processing or there's nothing to do with that? How do you architect the supercomputer? Sure, well there's a lot that goes into that, right? So we think a lot about our applications and our workload and then we're trying to make all of the components that that needs, so that's memory, that's processor, that's networking. We need to make all of those go faster because if we can only make one of them go faster, we'll get a bit of an improvement but we won't get to where we need to be. So it's a question about taking all of those pieces, making them all go faster together so it's balanced, it's not balanced, one word. So you synchronize the technology somehow. It's not good if one goes too fast. Yeah, we're looking for improvements in every area. So Fender's are really good at doing one piece of that. We need to do memory and we've got to do networking as well. So we've got to work right across the board with everybody. So you're building something that has the biggest memory bandwidth in the world? That's what I'm hoping for. So how big is it going to be? I can't give you real numbers yet but it's going to be big, so think about it. We're looking for 50 times faster than the machines we've got today and we'd like to do better than that. And it's going to fit in a small data center? Where's it going to fit? No, these are big data centers. It's going to be big like this? Size of a football pitch. Football pitch, oh yeah, there's a Broncos game right now. Yep, well we could take them all off and put our supercomputer down instead. All right, so here at a supercomputing conference, do you think it's going to be exciting what people are showing, talking about here? What's going on at this conference? We're expecting some new machine announcements this week. There should be some new announcements on hardware. Can't talk about what those are yet, but basically start tomorrow on the show floor. Pretty exciting stuff. There'll be some new machines in the top 500, new machines on HPCG, which is a benchmark. So we're pretty excited, it's going to be a busy week. And how many people work together with you in that center where you are? So we've got about a hundred and 200 people working on that stuff at Sandia, but there's other DOE labs, six DOE labs involved in scale across the country, so think about it, like 1,000 people. 1,000 people working on the future of HPC, the future of supercomputing. Yep, you got it. And that's important for everything in society, right? Health, everything. And if you think about these big machines, right? A big machine from 10 years ago is now at the universities and the students are using that to solve problems. So everything we do at the high end eventually ends up, you know, businesses and industry and designing the next aircraft and all these kind of things. So what's going on? It ends up in the smartphone. Yeah, it does.