Good evening, everybody. My name is Akol Agwek and I'm the moderator of the forum tonight. I'm moderating a Ballington School Board forum with a number of candidates who are now here in the studio or in the Zoom call. Joining us tonight are Pauli Bandaputin. I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name. We're here, Camprilo, Claire Wul, Monica Ivansik, and Aquila's Locoso will join us later. So these are all the candidates for tonight. We have about one hour to hold these forums. So let me just go straight to ground rule. First, candidate will be allowed a minute opening a statement so each of you will have a minute opening a statement. Second, all candidate will have two minutes to respond to questions. Whatever question I have from the script, you will have two minutes to respond to that question. There may be a question from the public. In which case we will take those all candidate will be given the opportunity to respond to questions from the public. What that means is I have questions scripted here. When member of public calls, their question takes the priority. When candidates are allowed 30 seconds rebuttals, if you have to rebut anything state, then you have 30 seconds. Candidate have 30 second closing statement. So that is very much it for tonight. So, let me just go with the first question. Please tell us why you are running and what will be different for Burlington if you are elected. Why do you think you are an oppose it look like you are not running against each other so it's probably not a high stake debate here but please, Monica, let me begin from the left. This way Monica you have the floor why are you running or why are you an oppose your two minutes. You are muted. You are muted, Monica. Sorry about that. My name is Monica advantage and I'm running to represent Ward seven on the Burlington school board. I'm currently serving my second term on the school board, and I'm seeking your vote to be reelected to serve a third term on the board. My family, I live in the new north end and I work at UVM teaching and maintaining an instrument lab for the Department of Chemistry. I'm also a mother in the district, my daughter is an eighth grader at hunt and headed to the high school in the fall. I've lived in the new north end since mid 2015 and enjoy being part of this community. In the last four years on Burlington school board, we have collectively made many positive changes and I believe that we have transformed this district. When I first started serving many of us were new on the board and the climate in the district was not good. The teachers had just been on strike the previous fall and did not feel respected. We dealt with issue after issue and slowly with time conditions and climate were significantly improved. In the last two years we hired a new superintendent who is a skilled leader keeps us abreast of all issues the district is facing and has a passion for equity diversity and inclusion. Together with the board, he has been faced with many challenges, including managing a district. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Claire you have two minutes. Hi, thank you. My name is Claire wool. I am running for reelection for ward six. I have served two years as well to two terms excuse me the last four years. I came on to the board after serving over 10 years as a parent volunteer and in every in any capacity through our elementary middle and high school. I have two graduate students from Burlington high school and I have a junior at the high school, my third child. I am an active participant in all civic opportunities that enhance our public school district. I look forward to serving in this next very challenging two years. I am committed to the opportunities that we've created to grow the district, but also to the state of emergency that we are currently in without a permanent high school and technical center. The challenges ahead are not our daunting, but they are achievable. We live in a college town where institutions of higher learning surround us, and I look forward to working with our city and all of our community and developing the next VHS and Burlington tech center at the BK level at the elementary level at the middle school level. We want citizens to move to Burlington, Vermont, and the public school system is the largest economic engine in the city of Burlington. Thank you. Thank you. Lucia, you have your two minutes. Great. Thank you so much, Nicole, for the question and it's really nice to meet you tonight. Thanks also for hosting us this evening. I'm so pleased to be sharing a space with Monica and Polly and Claire and Achilles in a short while as well. Monica, congrats on your endorsement earlier this week from rights and democracy. And I'm so pleased to introduce myself. My name is Lucia Campriolo. I've lived in Burlington for about seven years now. My husband and I moved here when my older daughter was just 15 months old and she's now a second grader at Champlain elementary school. And my younger daughter is four and in her last year of preschool and she's very excited to join her big sister next year at Champlain. I'm excited to run for Ward five school board commissioner because I'm a parent of two young children at the very start of their public school careers, because I care deeply about Burlington, and because I value education as a cornerstone of a healthy community. As far as why I'm unopposed, I think it's a combination of reasons. What I've heard from people over the past couple months is that they're increasingly confident in our leaders across the district, which hasn't always been the case in past years. And I think that discontent has motivated candidates to run in the past. At the opposite end of the spectrum, it's a fraught time in the world, which sometimes motivates people to action and, you know, other times wears people down. And I think folks are exhausted. I'd love to think that my passion for community service and my enthusiasm for the work of the board has something to do with it as well. But I'm very happy to acknowledge the external factors that play to thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Lucia, Paulie, your two minutes. Hey, hi, thank you. My name is Paulie Vanderputten. I live in Ward three, and I'm running for my second term on the school board. I grew up in this area. My family moved to South Burlington right next door when I was five years old. And I'm a person who went away, came back, went away, came back, finally came back and settled here. And I have lived in this neighborhood since 2006. I have a daughter who is in the fifth grade currently at Edmunds Elementary, so I have a parent perspective. And I have also been a teacher for the past 23 years of those I've been a public high school teacher since 2008. I think the perspective that I bring is one of someone who's been in the community for a long time. Someone who is a parent of someone in the community and someone who works actively in the public schools and in a district that's nearby that faces many of the same kinds of questions has the same strengths and challenges as Burlington. Why am I running unopposed? I think that similar to what Lucia Campriolo spoke to earlier, there are people who are feeling really good and confident about the leadership. I also think that previously the word on the street was that board meetings were extremely long and contentious and exhausting and nobody really wanted to put themselves in that position. I feel that that's significantly changed. That has not been my experience in my two years on the board, which is wonderful, but that kind of sense of like yikes, I don't want to do it, I think was a factor for some people. So anyway, not for me, I am looking forward to the next couple of years representing Word 3. Thank you. Thank you. Exactly on time. So let's go forward since you are all running unopposed, you might be responsible for this, the budget. Do you support this year's school budget of 98.2 million? If you have voted again, is it? Then you probably did not support it, but this is the question for you all so that the voters can understand where you stand. So I will begin with you Pauli since I'm going this way now. Do you support the budget? And why? Okay, yes, thank you. I definitely support the budget. And the reason I support the budget is I feel it's very reasonable. There are no changes to our current programming, which is a relief to me. It's terrible to see when rifts have to happen. Rifts are the euphemism of a reduction in force, which means that people get cut from their positions, which means that programs get cut for children. We are not talking about that with this budget. We're talking about keeping things the way they have been, which is necessary for the district to function. Percentage increase in the budget is a little over 3%, and that's to be able to keep those programs in place and to keep up with wages and salaries. But overall, because of a surplus in the current education fund, we are looking at taxes decreasing. I kind of try to say win-win, but we get to keep our schools functioning the way we need to, and we are also potentially looking at a tax decrease. So I say yes, please vote for this budget. It's one of the best ones we've ever put out there. Okay, thank you. Thank you. It looks like it's going to be voted on. Lucia, please. You have the floor. Great. And I'm very happy to keep this brief. Oh, sorry. I'm happy to keep this brief and also to share that I voted yes for the school budget when I mailed my ballot in earlier this week. As Polly said, it appears to be an incredibly fiscally responsible budget. It maintains the quality of programming that is offered presently throughout the district. And I look forward to digging in more and learning more about the budgeting process at the school district upon being elected. Thank you. Thank you, Claire. You support the budget. Yes, thank you. We worked with the superintendent and all our district leaders, the process and looking at our budget year after year. Our fiscal year ends in July, so we have an opportunity to see what we've spent in years past. This budget, as we talked about, especially during a pandemic, we've made no programmatic cuts. And we are fortunate that we have been a board that has been fiscally responsible. And we do listen. We, we carry budget meetings for many of our populations to come and learn about the budget. And to me, when I think of our, you know, how we are progressing as a state in our spending, it is concerning and we do monitor how we use our funds and we are not. We have been fighting for the last year on our per pupil weighted formula so we will be addressing how Burlington receives funding from the state. But at this time, I do support this budget and we are conscientious board and we, we hope that the citizen supported. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Monica, you have the floor. Thank you. And I as well voted yes on the school budget I support this budget that is currently awaiting voter approver approval, and I just wanted to say that under the direction of superintendent plan again for the first time, the district has utilized an equitable budget and staffing model. So, this model does not have to do with increasing or decreasing the budget, but it has to do with redistributing how the pie is cut so that more resources go to students who need them the most. One of the biggest differences in developing this year's budget was used to use this rise allocation that the superintendent introduced rise stands for recognizing injustice and seeking equity. And it uses a weighted student formula funneling funds to schools in greater need. Each school in the district formed an advisory group composed of school teachers, school leaders, teachers and parents to come up with a plan on how to spend that schools rise allocation. And the differences were, you know, the elementary level versus middle level versus high school, they found different staffing that would provide an equitable education to all of our students. So we have a great one pager that describes exactly the breakdown of the entire budget and as Polly already mentioned, even though there is an increase in spending per pupil. It's part of that is because we're losing pupils in the district. Overall, there'll be a decrease in taxes, because of the access in the education fund at the state. Thank you. Thank you. I will stay on this for all of you. And that is to say there has been reference to access surplus in the education fund. And there is an argument to be met that that is one time money as a result of the corporate fund. So, so when that goes away. Are we not looking at the 10 button that will fall on the resident of Burlington because that gap has to be feel money has to come someplace. So, since you are highlighted Monica, one minute on that. I think that by COVID funds, you're talking about the extra funds, which are actually separate from this budget. But you're right, these are one time funds and I believe our extra funds last through middle of 2024. And we are funding quite a few positions on the assessor funds. And yes, we don't know. And a lot of those positions are have to do with restorative practices in the schools. And so we will have to figure out what happens to those positions after the funds run out. But those are separate from the voter approved budget. That's in the ballot right now. Yeah, thank you. Can you continue on that this is if it looked like education fund at the state level has surplus in it. And that is being used to reduce taxes at the school level. And so if that is the case. And this is the question if that is the case. Money goes away. What happened that is that is that that that is the use of my question but you cannot you answered it. Monica so Claire that way. Yes, so you're talking about the $90 million service from the state. Yes, that is one time funds that allows us to have a reduction in our education taxes this year you are correct. And yes, next year, when we look at our per pupil as Monica touched upon and if people don't know now, over the last two years the Burlington School District has lost over 200 students, each of those students equates to $19,000. So we, we are fortunate this year with the Ed fund surplus and helping this budget. When it goes away, we will need to look at what each school has as far as capacity and per pupils, and we will need to make adjustments based on the fact that we have had attrition. We look at that attrition based on immigration policy, the federal level we've looked at that attrition because our high school campus has closed. And therefore we have had families leave the district because that we are in a temporary high school. So we will need to attract families to bring back the population of the Burlington public schools and get back to what our normal numbers are which is this high school of 1000 students in elementary schools with full capacity, and we will make those tough decisions so tough decisions would have to be made if we because we cannot rely on the state surplus going forward into FY 24. Thank you. Thank you. Again, this is, this is not the debate among yourself so it is, I still have, I have a little flexibility here to kind of like, if you want to opt out from answering it, then totally fine but other than that, it is from the policy standpoint, if you base your budget on one time money, you are literally kicking the can down the road and some somehow you will have to pick up that can down the road so I thought I would bring it up since it was referenced here during the forum. Lucia and Paulie you will still have your one minute on this. If you want to opt out is this totally fine. I will move to the next question but I would just like to add something to what's been said. I don't know if it's clarifying or helpful but I personally find all of this to be really complicated understanding education funding and how it works and per pupil funding but in terms of this $90 million surplus it's a question I've been asking a lot about because I've heard that Governor Scott may repurpose some of that money for other forms of tax relief. And of course my perspective is no, we have to use that for education because that is what it's for, but I've come to understand that we have to base the numbers we are putting on this ballot for this town meeting day budget on our understanding of what is currently the situation that Governor Scott may make a decision about that money and put it in a different form of tax relief but we won't know that until like May when they make that decision and I'm looking at it from a perspective of we are going to keep this budget the way that it is and if Governor Scott does decide to use that money for other purposes it's still providing tax relief and so the overall picture is good for constituents in Burlington. Just a final note on this, 10% of funds for our education system come from federal funding. So it's a chronic problem that we have that our system is so flawed and how it's funded and with this $90 million surplus that we have at the state level, one time money, we still need to find ways to keep that money coming in so that it is not solely on the back of taxpayers and I'm sure we'll get into this more later on, talking about the high school and that kind of stuff. Thank you, thank you. Lucia, do you have something to add before I move to next question. I'm not sure that I have anything too meaningful to add to this conversation other than what I've learned and what I understand as a taxpayer is that there are so many variables that go into determining the bottom line impact taxpayers for any school budget year. Things like the size of the district's budget, the state tax revenue, federal funding, the size of Burlington student population and many other factors and that it's actually quite dynamic. But the bottom line is that as the board is working together with the district to develop that budget. We have access to all of those variables year to year so that we're able to make those decisions with a full set of information. Yeah, thank you, thank you. I think this issue of education finance is something I studied so we could go on and on. We could talk about equalized people, why do some district gain, why do other districts lose. We could talk about home estate property tax, non-home estate property tax, where does the money, we can spend the whole night on this but let's move on to a different topics. What I can say though, now that you are not running against each other is the fact that you are going to have some convincing you will be doing down the road. Out to your constituents to support the budget or to support the kind of quality education that the kids in Burlington ought to have so that is totally on you. Let me move to a different topic here. And that is about racial justice. The question based very much is, do you support the passage of H584 and which would require standards in education design to promote anti-racism in schools, things like critical race theory. So do you support that or do you not support that and why? Let me split in the middle since I start here and then when they're in the middle, Lucia. Thank you so much for this question. So firstly, yes, I support H584 which for those who haven't read the bill or are not closely familiar with the work it is an anti-racism certification program for Vermont public schools. Personally, I'm inspired by the students who've led this charge in partnership with lawmakers. I think some of the most rich and valuable ideas come from students themselves. They live in our education system and their personal experiences reveal a lot about what's working well and what's working less well. This is a bill that reflects what students themselves are calling for from our public education system. It's about recognizing the rich history, contributions and perspectives of diverse groups. It's about supporting districts to prepare, respond and prevent incidences of racism. And ultimately it's about preparing students to be successful in an increasingly diverse and multicultural society. I'm proud to support H584. Thank you, Pauline. Thank you. So, as I looked over the questions for today, it was the first time that I had heard about this bill. So I had to educate myself about it a little bit, which I thought was interesting. That I work in public education and had not yet heard about it. What I like about it is that students have sponsored it. I think that it's wonderful that they are getting engaged. I currently do not know enough about the language of the bill and what it would mandate or what it would suggest. I'm not even sure which word to use in terms of how this certification is going to play out. I can say that from my experience in public schools with anti-bias and anti-racism training, that it's not all equal. I've had some really good, really powerful experiences and I've had somewhere it felt like the conversation got shut down. And that's very dangerous that whatever happens with this bill needs to keep the conversation going so that people can articulate their views and not feel judged for their views because as soon as that happens, the conversation shuts down and then we don't make any progress. So I am currently kind of just waiting to see more specifics. It's brand new. It's students sponsored and I'd really like to know more about what this would look like specifically for teachers and districts as they try to implement it. Thank you. Thank you. Claire. Hi, thank you. Yes, I would support H584 and following the Vermont Student Anti-Racism Network, I too was inspired that it was student driven as our other candidates have shared. You know, looking at those statistics that they talked about, 78% of the students in a survey said that they did not really receive or accurately get a full education at elementary school with regards to anti-racism or learning about it. And then, you know, when we talk about, you know, a diverse inclusive anti-racist curriculum, yes, it was only four or five years ago when we looked at all the books in our library, our current elementary, middle school and high school libraries. The students of the global majority were not, you know, represented in the books that they were checking out. And we talk about really what this bill is about to bring in anti-bias training for staff, diversity and literature. And education is the key to changing our society as stated in the bill and I support that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Monica. Yes, I definitely support this bill H584 and just like Polly, I had not heard of this bill until I saw the questions for today's forum. And I do believe in promoting anti-racism in our schools. I think historically Vermont's been a very white state. The percentage 98% of our population is white. Fortunately our schools in Burlington and Winooski, the population of BIPOC students is quite larger than that. And I'm happy to learn that this bill is being originated with students. And ever since I've served on the board, I've been the co-chair of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee and, you know, working with diversity has been my passion. And we've really been supporting restorative practices in our district. So getting rid of punitive punishment, getting rid of the, essentially the school to prison pipeline where BIPOC students disproportionately penalized and sent home from school. So with the use of restorative justices in our district, we're teaching the teachers how to be open to change and not use punitive punishment. So I'm really looking forward to what happens with this bill. And as Polly mentioned that at least it is opening the conversation and hopefully it doesn't do a nosedive. Hopefully we can lift it up and get this to be something that's celebrated across the state. Thank you. Thank you. So let go back. I want to go back to the money. And that is a school and a school funding. Ballington's educational infrastructure is aging while the student population is growing. What do you think needs to happen statewide? This is not just the city of Ballington. What need to happen statewide? And also in Ballington to support the schools. And now let me split the screen again beginning with Claire go this way. So Claire you have the floor. If you want me to read the question again I will. I think I got it hopefully. So you ask you ask statewide statewide infrastructure of our public school districts. How do how do we support the failing infrastructure. While specifically Chittenden County is seeing strong student populations in our public schools so infrastructure to me is, you know, looking at our buildings and as we tackle the PCP problems. So that's the Burlington problem as we will see throughout the state. Hopefully those some of those those schools district will be spared what we have gone through. But we have a moratorium on construction aid and if I'm, if my geography is correct, we are the only state east of Indiana that does not receive construction aid. State give 40% construction aid for public school buildings to support their capital improvements their age back systems they're failing, you know, again schools that have been here in Burlington I integrated Arts Academy, you know, original buildings that now see, you know, 200 300 students in their in their structures that were as we build on to them that are failing and that are leaking and as we see with the high school and the Burlington Technical Center. So we would look, I've testified over the last couple years to at the State House to bring back that lift that moratorium on construction aid. But it, again, looking to the federal stimulus, like and hoping that there are federal dollars to help all of our Vermont school districts prioritize identify evaluate those buildings that are in the most need. There were certainly other districts that were failing their physical their infrastructures and need support. So, again, looking statewide. I think there needs to be a comprehensive plan, an outreach to those public school districts in the most with the most need so that students are going to schools safely, similar to lead in the water, our buildings have to be safe for learning. That is the statewide the second leg of question is what need to happen in the city of Burlington. For me. Yeah, yes, so we have. Yes, we have done an analysis we did a comprehensive analysis with the city, all the municipal buildings of every one of our school properties and what the school district owns. You know, we have a capital improvement plan, a 10 year capital plan and we have identified everything that each school needs to be run efficient efficiently and effectively so efficiently so that financially we're not wasting money on consistent repairs or breakdowns, and effectively is looking at improvements that we've done throughout our our school district and our 13 we have 13 school programs. And so we, we have a plan in place, the, what happened at Burlington High School and the tech center and having to close that campus was a big surprise after failing our environmental tests. Therefore, we had always been looking at swing space to identify as well would be second or first on this equal to the importance of improving our high school situation, as well as the Edmunds campus and a new age back system so we we have a comprehensive plan from our facilities department, and how to improve it, and it costs money, and it will take time and allocating space, temporary space for students to do the work that needs to get done on specifically the IA campus and obviously the Burlington High School Thank you. Thank you. I, if I want to be clear and I don't want to, everybody will answer this is if some money, capital planning money has if some of that money has to come at the state level will will you support an initiative to raise some from Burlington If somebody has to come from it. Yeah, I think I think ultimately the reason for the moratorium and again digging down I think it's going on 12 years is based on, we just don't have the population you know many states, you know 1% sales tax goes to you know helping construction aid or for your public schools so will Burlington have to help. Yes, I think all school districts all cities, towns and municipalities would have to contribute, or you look into creative ways like sales tax, increasing a 1% sale tax to support this so I would have to work with our state legislators to come up with how they would fund that construction aid or capital aid for schools. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Claire. We stayed on this longer than I thought. Monica, please. Thank you. I think Claire covered it very well. Like she said the state put a moratorium on funding and repairing schools or building new schools, I believe in 2010. And back then they said they put a moratorium on this because they couldn't keep up with demand, which I find very irresponsible of our legislators because the problem just exacerbated. So it got a lot worse, and I think with Burlington high school that that's just the tip of the iceberg that's the first school that we found out oh airborne PCBs and we really did a lot of testing and we thought we could remediate the PCBs, but now it's looking like it, it's an unknown expense and a note unknown amount of time. Another issue is the state standards the state standards were extremely low. Yep. Yeah, please keep going. My computer could die so let me plug it in so keep going. Okay. The state standards were extremely low when BHS was first shut down and they've relaxed them a bit but I'm afraid that they're still quite a bit low. So I worry about what's going to happen when all the schools in the state of Vermont are going to be tested which is supposed to happen I believe by 2024. Yeah, we definitely need to take better care of our public buildings, you know, all schools are municipal buildings and so I think it's not fair that education budgets have to cover, you know, the costs. And I believe Claire already mentioned this but you know one of our issues with our schools that need a lot of repairs one of them is IAA which used to be a wheeler. They can't repair everything in the span of the 10 week summer. So we need to house the students somewhere and that's an issue because we have nowhere else in the town to house the students. Thank you. Thank you so you would support a combination of somebody coming at the state level and some being raised locally. Yes. Okay, thanks. Thanks. Lou here. I'm just a brief moment because I think Monica and Claire have done such a beautiful job covering much of the topic. And all that I would offer is that theme that came up in conversations that I've been having with community members over the past couple of months is an in continued collaboration and coordination between the school board and the city council so that community members are presented with bonding opportunities that are, you know, threaded together in what feels like a fiscally responsible and also with enough line of sight to feel confident in making their decisions on on election day so that when we are faced with a bond from the city and faced with a bond from the school we can feel confident or have the information we need to make that decision. So that we are not short changing one over the other, but rather holistically approaching all of the city's needs together as a community. Thank you to cheer Paulie. You have the last word on this question. I would just like to start with appreciation for our chair Claire wool and the work and time she has put into finance and facilities. I felt like I learned from her tonight about the overview of the capital plan so this is not a debate forum sometimes I think we're going to express some gratitude. I would echo what many others have said and wish or long for, I think I need to be more active than that consistent funding coming in to support schools it's really tiresome that these necessary repairs fall on the backs again of local taxpayers as opposed to it being seen as a public good and something I love from Monica was that community members use these buildings to they use them for classes they use them for events that they have that are happening outside of school hours so if we were to think about it and advocate for it more broadly perhaps that would happen Vermont really needs to get better about funding the infrastructure of schools and I think Burlington and the whole state need to look at that so anyway. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And welcome Achilles loco so I think you probably arrive when we will be going to probably the last question so what I can say on this is the idea that the US Constitution. Put responsibility of education on a state so they, you know, they, they, I don't, I don't think there will be money, a lot of money coming from the federal government, it will always be the state, and the local school district that piece resources together.  So welcome Achilles. I don't see him again. Anyway, okay. So let me go to the last question since we have only 17 minute left. This is getting into your leadership aspiration as a school board member. And that is to say, what do you see at the biggest challenges facing the school, you might probably have already alluded to this in some of your questions. So what do you see at the biggest challenges facing is the school and how would you use your seat on the school board to address this. What is your vision for Wellington's education future. Let me now begin at the fire and Paul, Paul, Paulie. Okay, thank you. That's all I have. Um, so I kind of tied this one into the educational initiatives and that idea of five to 10 years so I'm going to try to cover as much ground as I can. We got we got we are going until seven 30 so. Okay, so my very first thing biggest challenges facing the school and like looking just over the next couple of years is we absolutely need to get a high school and tech center built here in the city. It is affecting so many aspects of our lives in our community. I will in the future so my number one priority it's like I'm very single minded about this right now is what do we need to do to get community support and funding to build a high school and tech center. I find to extend it beyond that also current but long term, it would be how to mitigate the effects of the pandemic on students and families so what kind of programs what kind of funding do we need what does that look like to support everyone coming out of this because I can tell you firsthand I have seen significant changes in my students over the course of my career so how are we going to support people coming out of the pandemic. I would also love. I suppose you could say this is really long term I wish it could happen now for us to get comprehensive high quality preschool education in place to have it offered in all of our schools because I think if we put the money where we're laying the foundation for students, we see fewer of the challenges that emerge later on, which makes it money very well spent it's not money to deal with things in a reactive way it's money to deal with things in a proactive way. So how do we use the funds that we have to better support preschool programs that are for all families for all students, and that are high quality and comprehensive. I will stop there. Thank you. Thank you, Lucia. Well I just love when a conversation turns to the under fives because in my in my professional career I am an advocate for equity affordability and quality in Vermont's child care system with let's grow kids. So it's always exciting for me when when the conversation turns to the early years but to stay on topic in this moment, because I could really spend a lot of time on this on the subject. I really have the same two challenges that I would highlight specifically on the high school. So the challenge, as you mentioned, a call is going to be that the district is going to have to tackle over the next several months, how to assemble a plan that is fiscally palatable that leverages all of the available funding sources, and that honors education as a cornerstone of a healthy community. I think we're in the unfortunate position of having to put forward a bond in November, during a moment when taxpayers are stretched and stressed, and at the same time, as Polly said Burlington needs a high school that our community can be proud of, and that our students deserve, not only to fulfill our obligation of providing quality education to our children but also in order to attract families to Burlington who will contribute to our city's tax base. So here's the pandemic. As we approach the two year anniversary of the COVID-19 pandemic, I think, daily about how stretched our administrators our teachers and our staff are, as well as our families and our students. I think a lot about the external pressures the pandemic has placed on academic achievement and its accentuation of the disparities among students within the district. I'm hopeful that we'll find ourselves in a different position from a public health perspective in the in the near term, and certainly as we move through 2022, and we will all need to work incredibly hard and collaboratively as a school community and full community to fully recover from this pandemic in the coming years to support really a generation of students whose academic lives have been upended. I will just conclude with a couple visionary moments. I think, you know, my vision for Burlington's education future is a public school system that is fully resourced to support the diverse attributes that all of our students and their families bring into our community. My vision is that we continue to invest in policies that are working well today, and to elevate and examine the many bright spots across the district with an eye towards scaling those bright spots. I hope that we continue to rely on data, especially data that reveals the experiences of those whose lives are impacted most to guide our policy decisions as a district. And finally, that we continue to advance our commitment to equity in our schools through participation, collaboration, and with compassion so that race, race, ethnicity, household income, language background, ability and gender are not predictors of achievement, discipline or participation. Thank you. And Claire Wolfe, you have the floor. I just had from Paulie that you are the here so I didn't know that credential so you have the floor. Here I'm a candidate for reelection but thank you. Well, I am. I have to take in what Lucia said and what Paulie said, I am very appreciative, first of all, that I am here with four citizens who are looking to support in a civil role, civic duty role, not duty is civic opportunity to support our public schools. They are the cornerstone of creating the next generation and supporting the generation and the families that they touch, and that we, we work for, you know, I'm a glorified, you know, volunteer that supports every student that walks into each of our schools, as well as their families, as well as the faculty and staff, as well as the administrators. So, our gift is the ability to listen to the needs of all of our incredibly talented, unique, diverse, you know, ambitious, and at the same time, very, you know, fractured community at this time after the pandemic so listening and hearing, you know, from our superintendent who has been working tirelessly for the last two years, 24 seven, along with our district staff to normalize this situation that we've been working through as an entire country, and globally. My ambition is absolutely to think about, you know, first we talk about the whole students, the social emotional and the academics we are in the business of academics and teaching. And so, first and foremost, our educators, we want to attract people to come work in Burlington, Vermont and to choose us over the many districts that they have the opportunity to apply for we need to attract attract and retain good teachers from the pre K all the way up to our 12th grade to all our tech center staff, staff at faculty and staff. So, first and foremost, making sure that our faculty and staff are committed and we retain them and we have a good solid working community. And secondly, that our community is feels that we have an open door policy, the superintendent, our communications director, the levels that we've gone to in engaging our community over especially the last two years, I feel we have a strong community of parents and families incredibly supportive and engaged families. And then we also represent the taxpayers, and I believe from two years ago that 70% of the citizens of Burlington supported our bond, because they recognize and we gave tours for over a year of the high school campus, the need for an institution that was ADA accessible. Our high school was not ADA accessible. On top of having failing infrastructures of heat and gross and, you know, inefficiencies, we want to be a carbon neutral city, you know, the things that we stand for as a state, we're not, you know, we have to build for that and we have to improve, not only for the health of our students and airborne PCBs, but also to model, you know, structures that we believe in and can stand by for the health and wealth from our little pre case to our 12th graders to our tech centers. So the challenges of working together and working fiscally responsibly and being adaptable and at the same time omnipresent and supportive. The curriculum job of our superintendent is just that and we have worked very hard as a school board to provide solid leadership at the top. And for every person that has come in to this district and feel that they feel that they are working for a school district that values them. And again, I'm so interested in what you do a call, because the funding has been so fractured at the state level two years ago Tammy Colby 2019 report. There was no, you know, we look at the Vermont funding but the empirical data like why we fund school districts and the way we do. And school districts like Burlington and Winooski and rural districts have been underweighted. Based on the demographics of our students and we have worked we were leaders, increasing our volunteer time to create a coalition for student equity. And for us to get to the Senate Ed committee who presented the Senate finance. We will look to our state leaders to model equitable funding. And that is my biggest goal. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Monica, you have the floor on that. Thank you and thank you to both to all three my Polly, Lucia and Claire for raising some excellent points in the challenges that lie ahead. Of course, one of the biggest challenges is building up our new high school. So we are bustling city for Vermont. It's an excusable that we don't have a high school building. Essentially, it's, it's pretty much of a state of emergency. We have a high school to educate our young and to, you know, get them from their elementary and middle school ages to college. So it's an important time in the life for them. Another challenge that we're having is, you know, funding education in general. Vermont is one of the states where we still value public education, but if we look look across the nation. A lot of the Republican states are trying to use public funds to fund private education, and there is no checks and balances on private education.  A large part of it is health insurance for teachers and our staff. And so we can't, it's not sustainable. So we have a lot of residents in Burlington and perhaps decreasing because they're moving away that are on fixed income.  So that's definitely going to be a challenge in the future. And then another challenge that I wanted to mention, and it's, it's one of the goals of our new strategic plan that was just developed is getting our teachers and staff to reflect the student population. Currently, the student population is 40% BIPOC or members of the global majority, while our teachers and staff are, I believe it's six or 7%. So that's been a challenge for the last 10 or 15 years here in the district, diversifying our workforce, and also retaining our workforce, because as we get more and more BIPOC teachers or, you know, some schools only have maybe one or two, they don't feel comfortable. And so then they look for other places where they could feel comfortable and we have great ideas. Like, we have a lot of new Americans here that settle from across the world. And if we could educate these kids and, and have some kind of program where these kids could go into getting teaching credentials, teaching licenses, and then come back to our district to teach. That would be a great program. Another would be to get the new American parents who were teachers in their home country or in the refugee camp prior to moving here to get a step in the door into our schools and to become role models for the kids in our community. So that's another challenge that we're, you know, we'll take many years to get over, but that's something that we really need to work on in the next couple of years. Thank you. Thank you. It's a very collegial school boards and it looked like you are working as a team, which is really good. Now, we have a little over 15 minute left and I hope I will now be very strict so that you can all speak to this one question, and which is going back to the money. This time is more specific. The DHS construction, you cannot alluding to this, but there is there is a reason why I'm asking this question and that is, let me just read the question. As the school district enters the planning phase of the near Ballington High School and Tech Center, which is has to be constructed. What would you like to see in the near building? What do you like to see in that? And do you support the current plan if there is a plan in place? And I think I will begin with Monica going this way. Just stay under two minutes now so that everybody has their chance. I would like to see a building that we can use, one that has windows that kids aren't in a like they're down at the downtown site has no windows and only seniors are allowed off campus. But I would like it to be, you know, integrated with Burlington Technical Center. I would like to have enough space that the teachers feel that they have enough, you know, space and to educate our children and I guess I, you know, I haven't been involved heavily involved with planning of the high school, but I'm definitely in support and follow along with the new plans that come out and develop. And I think we've chosen an excellent set of architects. What I would support is to have a room. I think the Office of Equity would like to have a space, perhaps for the whole district, but instead of suspending children to send them to a special like planning room. And make sure we have some space for that for working, you know, with our diverse children. So, aside from that, I'll let my fellow commissioners, or soon to be commissioners talk about what their ideas are for the new high school. Thank you. Thank you. I have just been calling you with your first name I was not official so I should. It should have been more official so glad you have the floor. You are muted. Thank you. I just wanted to confirm Achilles are you, are you on. Yeah, I am. Oh, great. All right. I saw you. I just wanted to ask a call. Yeah. Thank you. I'm so sorry. Well, I have a lecture to get back to, but I've been listening in on the various answers and it's definitely a tough act to follow but I guess I could just introduce myself and get my name out there my name is Achilles. I am a recent graduate VHS 2018. I've been taking some notes down from what Claire and Lucia and Monica were saying I think that I'm creating a closer front, especially moving out of the dynamic is a very important thing to do. And I think if we want to focus on bio pocket meetings, it might be beneficial to get some of the kids or into meetings and then hear what they want to say or hear what plans might have moving forward. I am a senior S&E in plastic and so I'm planning to be back home. And so I thought it would also be a good chance for me to join the school board and you know, gaining an understanding of how the school works through the background because students, high school students are like is my focus. So, um, this is why I will like to join. Um, I'm sorry for not being here the whole time but I've been listening in and it's definitely a conversation and a good one that I go on I've been taking notes on moving forward and I guess that's all I have to say for now. That's okay. Thank you.  So thank you so much for calling. Thank you so much. Well, the question being, and I know Achilles having spent four years at the high school, you know, what do we want to see in a new high school and a new tech center. Like I shared before, we welcome an ADA accessible so all students with all mobility issues and faculty and staff with mobility issues can teach and attend our school. So when we think about, you know, I would say five months out of the year, we're like today a bitter cold day. We talk about accessibility and movement spaces so the gym has been the focal point of, you know, activity and health and wellness so a second where we could practice or kids could move around. And then the flexibility of space. We have the, as Monica touched upon the architect teams that are working with us, specialized in tech center and high school integration so that we are using space again in this in the fall of 2025 to open the doors to a new high school that really includes and is not siloed, but that has interactive space that is safe. I mean the old BHS had close to 47 doors in it as far as access. So we want to save community we want a healthy community, a new building and, and again to approve upon the opportunity for people to give feedback will be tomorrow night, we have our first kick off public meeting that anyone can come and share exactly answering that question what do you wish for in your high school. And we are on an aggressive timeline so we we have worked really hard of the last two years of what would work at that site. Our faculty and staff have given us feedback we have not wasted a dollar on the money that we have spent based on an analysis of that site but you know we there are many models of really incredible schools out there that have been built by neighboring states and throughout the United States that integrates both the tech center and the high school on one campus and I look forward to that future. Thank you. Thank you so much, Claire, look here. Thank you so firstly I support the current plan to build a new high school and technical center at the Institute road campus. I'm so glad that Claire just plugged the kickoff meeting which I'm going to repeat just in case people didn't catch it. The BTC BHS kickoff meeting is tomorrow evening at 630pm. You can dial in via zoom and if you go to bsdbt.org the information you need is right on the homepage. So again, like Claire said I encourage viewers to tune into that open meeting and contribute to the conversation. The community members during that meeting they'll also learn more about the work that already has been done so be fully caught up to speed on what's happened so far to solidify the project's vision. Here an update on program needs and see the most up to date timeline for the project which will be really useful as well. So what I would like to see specifically I expect and trust the experts on the team are already applying their knowledge of ideal learning environments and addressing things like including integrating technology considering safety security accessibility incorporating space, multi purpose spaces and outdoor learning opportunities. Otherwise, it feels really important that students teachers and staff the folks who live in this space. The most continue to have opportunities to contribute their ideas to the project as work advances. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you. I hope in whatever space we create that we make a lot of space for the arts and for connecting the arts to technology. I think that's a really cool movement as commissioner will Claire talked about flexibility. I think that's key and having a sense of the future that we are not locked into this hallway is the math hallway, but how can we have cross disciplinary opportunities for students to work together and that's both within the high school and also between the tech center and the high school I think this is a real advantage that Burlington has that students who live in Burlington and go to these schools can take advantage of the academic kinds of courses offered at the high school and also some of the more applied hands on tech classes offered at the tech center. This is true of other districts, their students have to get bused to the tech center, and often lose out on opportunities to take languages or art classes or music classes that they would have taken in their school. I would also hope to see that the materials used are really thoughtful. We are in this situation, I think because schools were built really quickly and on the cheap at a time when we had a boom in the population. Back in the late 50s early 60s. I know the school where I teach was designed by a firm that also designed prisons, and you can see that in its cinder block construction and tiny windows, it was seen as place to warehouse not as place to elevate. And I think we really need to focus on using quality materials obviously being physically responsible about that, but not finding ourselves setting ourselves up for a disaster like we have now with the PCBs. Finally, I would say, we've done some training with Judy Dow, and I would hope that there's some element of land acknowledgement in the building that we create whether it's through the materials or the space that we have but to say that we are on a land and not only that but sacred like where we are specifically here with the creation story of Lake Champlain and the Champlain Valley. I would wish to honor the caretakers of the land. So that was my final thought. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think that we for the last five minutes that we are left with I, I want each of you to just like express just one word or two to close. Whatever you said for tonight. We don't want it's already four minutes if you can just say one word that express that that summarize all you said tonight, then go for it. Akila Akila Akila's are you there. He is not he he said in the chat he had to go he's still in classes they have. Yes. So one word to summarize what you said one one word or two, because we're running out of time. You can go. I unity, we need unity from all all aspects. And I'm looking forward to work with people. I don't want to alienate anyone in the process as a school board member. And so unity is key. Thank you. Yeah. Monica. I would say diversity and equity. We want to make sure that students are serviced equitable. And I think we have a great superintendent and a great board that school board that works collaboratively together like you mentioned, I call where collegial. I'm looking forward to working with the superintendent and the ball board for better equity in our district. Thank you, Paulie one or two words. This is such an interesting challenge. Work, roll up your sleeves and and don't don't be above any of the work include participate and be open. Thank you, Lucia. I'll go with collaboration. And I do just want to offer that I had three goals for tonight. Because I am not serving already I was really hopeful for this opportunity as one to introduce my candidacy for viewers and to reflect for folks, some of the values that I would bring to the role. And I would certainly like to invite your vote on time meeting day, and hopefully your continued support and engagement throughout my service so the last thing I would love to say to is to invite viewers to connect with me individually, which you can do by phone at<PHONE_NUMBER> or by email at Lucia, f or B S D at gmail.com. And thank you so much for hosting us tonight. I look forward to continuing to be in touch with you. Thank you, thank you so much. These conclude tonight forum with the school board candidates for the city of Burlington. I wish you the best of luck that the hope I hope that the citizen pass your budget, because you bought it for it, and until the citizen bought for it. It is still final so I wish you the best of luck, and I look forward to meeting you in person. So I will close it for tonight and thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to have this conversation with you. Again, for viewers out there, my name is a call a work and I was, I am the moderator for tonight. Thank you. Thank you.


Straight to the tool. No slides. Test, test. I'm Beedle. I'm with the Shreemoo Group. This is Bruce Potter with the Shreemoo Group, founder of the Shreemoo Group. And if you caught his cool blue sniff tool or front end to Red Fang the other day, make sure you get to the website and help him out with some MAC addresses for the blue sniff tool. Disclaimer is going to be coming up. Example hotspot setup and weaknesses. Roguay P's 101 basically and then a demo of Air Snarf. And then if we have time we might tell people how they could probably mitigate some sort of risk here. Disclaimer, behave yourself. Next slide. Test, test. Example hotspot setup. Basically how a hotspot is set up so I can turn this way but I can't turn that way. Alright. Basically how example hotspots are or any hotspot, real hotspots are.  There we go.  You create a username and password. In some cases you tie this to a credit card. Then you visit the actual hotspot with a wireless device, either a PDA or a laptop with an actual Wi-Fi card in it. Power on, you associate, you get an IP from DHCP server, DNS, default router, all that stuff. Then when you open up a web browser what usually happens is there's a local redirect. It brings up a nice little splash screen that says username and password please enter here. At that point you're kind of authenticated to the local hotspot and they open up a little hole in the firewall or their local firewall for you and they no longer force you to redirect to the splash screen. They actually let you do web browsing and that sort of stuff. Usually some sort of cache or timeout value associated with the IP and MAC address. But for the most part you're free to do what you want there. Remember when you log in there's back end authentication, some sort of radius server. It can be a global radius server that covers the entire nation such as the case with T-Mobile Starbucks. And when you authenticate remember your credit card that you gave at the beginning when you logged in or created your username and password is tied to that login and will be charged. If you're doing pay for play or if you're doing a monthly flat fee and you're just using it every month. Question is, is this secure? You guys want to know? That's great man. Alright so here's a little graphic foo. Alright first we have an access point with an SSID of good guy. We have our client card come in with an SSID basically set to any or default. What usually happens is that they associate to the SSID or the access point with the SSID of good guy and their SSID effectively becomes good guy. What happens here if a stronger or closer access point comes within range of the Wi-Fi card here? Basically depending on what signal to noise ratio is in play here, they can actually be disassociated from the access point of good guy and re-associate to the SSID or the access point with the SSID of bad guy and their SSID effectively becomes bad guy. This can and does happen without the user's knowledge. Now what's really interesting is that if the bad guy decides to set his SSID to good guy well at that point all bets are off because the user definitely won't know what's happening. So here are some other screenshots that we took while we were over at Black Hat and you have your client card and some sort of utility that shows you signal and noise. A better utility for graphing signal and noise believe it or not, Net Stumbler.  Here is the hallway sitting at Black Hat and the access points there at Black Hat. As you can see that's pretty good signal. Receive sensitivity for most cards or really good cards around negative 68 dB and basically the stronger the signal from the access point as opposed to the noise as you see this is up here about negative 60 dB as we go higher and higher up into less negative numbers and then positive numbers obviously that's a better signal and the card will pick that out of the air and say great I'm hooked up. Well this is our rogue access point and we're sitting in the hallway here and the guy that's sitting next to me goes fuck because basically what we have here is a rogue access point running at negative 30 dB when the closest other access point in terms of a Black Hat access point is at negative 60 dB. Just for reference every 3 dB is basically a two times increase in power. We're talking about 30 dB difference here and a little side joke here we were at the racetrack last weekend and they have this thing called sound control at the racetrack because the locals well they really don't like the race cars running around. Well sound control says that the maximum sound on your car can be 103 dB. Well one guy runs around and comes back off the track and they say they black flagged him actually pulled him off the track he was at 109 dB. Well you try and explain to somebody that's well like myself a redneck that likes to race and say you're running at 109 dB the max is 103 dB. Shit man it's only six. I can fix that. Wrong. You're going to take the motor out of it. Alright looking again here at Knudts Thumbler we're actually looking at the access points in the MAC addresses and you see our Black Hat rogue access point is actually just a Netgear card in host AP mode and basically sitting there bump the power up or anything like that but the closer you are to somebody they're basically freaking out because they've been bounced off of the network. It can be a graceful bounce and that you have the same IP address scheme and they won't actually notice that they're moving over to another network it's really nice that people can migrate from one network to another like that and sometimes or most of the times actually since you don't have the same IP address scheme or they have an ARP cache that they won't actually recognize that they're going to the same default router anymore these individuals will say damn I can't get to the network. Oh man. Okay this is some itchy and scratchy foo the other day that don't worry about it. Basically I wanted to show you that regardless of where the actual signal is and say a building if you have strong signal in a building you have marginal signal outside the building and you say I'm good because I have great signal inside my building and nobody's going to bother me if they bring a rogue access point just the exterior of my building because it'll never overpower the signal that's inside the building. However there are things called amps. Rogue access points let's talk about rogue access point 101 basically a rogue access point is an unauthorized access point. Traditionally we're talking about corporate back doors or employees that decide they're going to fire up an access point in their office and allow anybody that's within range to basically get on the internet without any type of authentication. Also corporate espionage you pay the janitor 20 bucks he goes up into the next floor or the next building and drops an access point on the actual internet for you. Cheap corporate espionage at that. And from that point you simply either aim your antenna at the floor and you're picking up the corporate your competitor at the next floor or you aim the antenna at the building across the street and you're picking up their network there. Thank you janitor. Hot spots. Rogue access points for hot spots. Well we're talking about denial of service for one. If you set up an access point well we actually had something not too recently as far as personal telco and Starbucks guys I believe somebody was cramming somebody else's channel or something like that denial of service occurs with just regular Wi-Fi. But if you were actually setting this up in a protest mechanism you could set up a rogue access point and anywhere that you went for those hot spots if you didn't like that hot spot provider you just send everybody to a redirect that says save the moose. That's the user credentials. That's really what we're talking about today and the idea is if you pull up a rogue access point and you give the same sort of splash screen for the users that are actually entering that hot spot provider's area they're going to see the splash screen and they're not going to know any better because basically there's no authentication mechanism between the actual station and the actual AP. So they say I'm on an AP I've got my IP address I've got a splash screen it's asking me for a username and password and I'm going to give it to them. AP cloning that's kind of what we're talking about here. Hot spot rogue AP mechanics. Okay so how do you build a hot spot rogue access point or a rogue access point in general. Basically you're creating a competing hot spot. The access point can actually be another AP and then you back in it with an actual Linux or open VSD box whatever your flavor or you can actually run a card and host AP mode and then the card actually becomes the AP. You create or modify a captive portal behind the AP. If you're familiar with no cat off or YCAP or other types of tools that are captive portals basically they are redirectors that bring you to a splash screen and request a username and password at which point you're then authenticated and allowed through to the network. So you can create a modify captive portal to instead of actually do any back end authentication or actually concerning people with actually giving them access you instead just capture usernames and passwords. So you redirect the user to a splash screen, denial of service we talked about saving the moose and theft of user credentials. Now a bold attacker somebody with big brass ones is going to walk straight to ground zero and actually flip open their laptop and actually fire up host AP and actually snark usernames and passwords right there at the hot spot. They're drinking coffee. Somebody that's not so bold is going to drive by with their truck and a big antenna and either a one or maybe four watt amp if they've got military access and basically blast the entire hot spot as they drive by. They can either knock people off or they can just grab new users. They might be able to park at which point they just go through the entire metropolitan area gathering new usernames and passwords from each hot spot. They never actually have to go inside. Air snarf, air snarf is nothing special. It is a shell script. Basically what we're doing here is we're simplifying the process of setting up a rogue access point. We have host AP, HTTPD, GACPD. We're using a net DNS Perl module and a script that I wrote basically just as local resolving of DNS and basically an IP tables rule. It's simple example rogue access point and we're going to demonstrate it now. While I'm just firing this up Bruce is going to talk about defense. Howdy. So here's the deal. I like to talk about defense because I'd like to think there's some good to be had about all this so if you don't want to listen to the defense and just want to think about attack just watch what he's doing and just kind of zone me out. There's been a couple of talks here at Black Hat this year that have been really refined attacks, advanced and refined attacks against wireless networks. The technology, everybody sitting here kind of walks out the door and understands this stuff. But here's the deal. It's basically the same technology we had three or four years ago. We're just getting better as an attacker community to say, look here's the whole thing in a package.  Excellent. This is ridiculous that there's still infrastructure out there that's vulnerable to this type of thing. So what we need to do as the professionals, the security professionals side of the world is deploy more secure infrastructures. This problem of rogue access points is really one of authentication. Right now there's no reasonable way, excuse me, two years ago there was no reasonable way to authenticate people at the network level at the link level. So what ended up happening is people punted there all the way up to the top and said, hey, you know the default authentication token is a web browser. So we'll make all these fricking web portals and drive everybody to them and take their credit card numbers. And we just kind of ignore all the weaknesses that are lower down and hope they don't get screwed in the process. So technologies have been developed, namely 802.1x. How many people have heard of it? How many people have deployed it? Excellent. 802.1x is a link level authentication protocol. I'm going to talk on that right now. I gave a speech on it last year at Black Hat. It's a good starting point with lots of references and whatnot going to the website. There's the plug. 802.1x gives you link level authentication and it allows you to do it in an extensible way. So you can do it with say just a password scheme, you know, something that's pretty easy to deploy. Or you can do more complex certificate based schemes. And importantly, you can do bi-directional authentication. This is critical. Okay, right now the problem is the access point is really worried about authenticating you or the backend application, but you're not authenticating anything beyond that point. Unless it throws up an SSLR in your browser, you don't know how to damn things wrong. So 802.1x and the kind of Uber God that's coming out of 802.11i, which is the new wireless security specification that's got new link level encryption and new link level authentication, including 802.1x, is really going to be the future of where we're going to go and where these attacks are going to stop. If you have a corporate network today and you have things you want to protect, deploy 1x, deploy mutual authentication through something like TTTLS or there's only two Ts in that, or some other EAP mechanism that gives you that capability.  You ready? Yeah, doesn't fit in there. Can you fry this up? Stretch in here. Alright, so basically, if you get to an actual hotspot and you see this, that's probably somebody experimenting with Air Snarf. So that's just FYI for all of you here. What we're doing here is we're simulating, we're simulating a redirect and basically anything that I enter up here, this is kind of difficult because I don't have it locally displayed here, but if I go into A-Ware, Christ. If I go to ESPN or I go to any other type of site, and oh, that's why I created these buttons. CNN or something like that, basically I'm just getting the same page over and over and over, and then I'm going to select. We enter a username and password, and then we log in. Yeah, yeah. So we get an error message. Usually this is what the error message would be. The network's not available. Please try again. Give me another username and password. Now, what we can do is we can actually switch this around. So if we all know with Apache, we can do virtual hosting. So not only are we doing, say, something for just this URL, but we can dynamically change it. Say, we don't want to actually give people the local redirect or the air snarf redirect. We want to do something like, if anybody goes to PayPal, we give them a PayPal logo and a username and password prompt. The same thing applies. Like I said, we can do it for another popular site, Hotmail. And people are going to say username, password, Hotmail, prompt, yeah. Or I just got disconnected. In some cases these people are just going to be disconnected from somebody firing up a rogue access point. The next site that they're going to try and visit, or maybe even they were in the middle of a Hotmail session, the next time they pop up it's going to say username and password. And you can make these web pages really pretty and convincing. These are kind of dumb. But now let's say, let's say you actually wanted to do something like Starbucks. Do we have that there? So we pull up the URL for a Starbucks T-Mobile site. And somebody's going to look at that and they're going to say username and password, sure. The idea though is that you can actually use this for good.  And you want to grab their username and password while they're on the internet. Yeah, we got something for that. So every time they go to Slash. Now they log in at their local Alkata coffee joint. Where is that? There we go, Alkata coffee. Every time they log in here, Osama. We're going to grab username and password, give them a little message. Now, let me see if I can't move to one of the other screens. Give me a second. I'll show you where the actual passwords are stored. Now, in one version of Aerosnark we've got a mail to root. So obviously you're running this on your local box UR root and you can look at everything there. In this case, we actually have Apache. We're running it just with a log sent out and it's in CSV format. So later on and it rotates the logs too. Each time you fire up Aerosnark it rotates the logs so that you have just this running list of logs. So we've actually got somebody logging in to CNN, username and password. Osama apparently likes boys. Bring it on. All right. Here's the interesting point of all of this. You can do this with a laptop and you can do this with host AP. That's what it's running on right now. This is right now running on a Zorus, which means this is my rogue access point. Basically, I can go into a Starbucks anywhere in the nation, put it in my pocket, turn it on, order my coffee and walk out with my coffee and my usernames and passwords. That's what you got the recharger in the car for, man. Let's get back to the slides real quick. We'll wrap this up. And you guys have seen this replay, replay, replay, replay. Bruce talked about defense strategies, other defense strategies that we'd just like to recommend. For the guys that are actually running hotspots, local AP awareness. And individuals that are in corporations that are concerned about people setting up rogue access points and directing usernames and passwords to corporate credentials. What you want to do is be aware of the local access points. Be aware of your MAC addresses, be aware of the actual access points. Yes, you can fake MAC addresses.  Another thing is customer education. That's key. You have to make your users aware that this threat exists. Anybody else that's out there in actual Starbucks, they don't know that this can happen to them. So they're just going to walk in there and be vulnerable to something like this. One-time authentication mechanisms. I don't know if it's true, but at one point the rumor was that McDonald's and their hotspots, they were going to set it up so that when you actually ordered your Big Mac, for an extra buck, you could get like Wi-Fi access. And at the bottom of your receipt, it would print like a little pin that you would use.  Well, it's the same thing. If you use one-time authentication here and you're only charging a buck for the actual access, if somebody actually does grab the actual pin here and for authentication purposes, what are you out? You're out of buck. You're out of buck or the customer's out of buck. My personal belief is that for hotspots, you should be charging for hotspot access. It's not enough to be charging me $5 for a cup of coffee. Now you want to charge me like $5. What we're talking about here is that Wi-Fi access should be a value-added feature to your business. And it's going to attract people there and they're going to sit there and they're going to buy more coffee. They're going to buy more little bagels and donuts and all that other sort of... And the idea is that you don't actually need to charge for it in order to actually make up your losses because they're really not that big. Here are some links. AirSnarf will be at airsnarf.schmoo.com. Right now, there's a placeholder there. But here, I'll show you the website actually in existence in a minute. HostAP, there's a link for HostAP. Some people think that HostAP is hard to set up. For Red Hat, there's actually a kernel or an RPM that you can set up for the kernel. So it's just an RPM command. If you're looking for hotspots, www.hotspotlist.com. Other wireless portal software, Personal Telco has a list of wireless portal software. So if you're not interested in using AirSnarf for your purposes, you can go grab yourself some other portal software and try and modify it for your purposes. I actually want to underscore that. You know, this has all been a security talk so far and how to subvert portals and things of that nature. Anyone that's actually set up a wireless portal, there's some software out there that people have been using. Things like YCAP and NoCat and things of that nature. This actually makes it dandy, a little wireless portal if you're going to set that kind of thing up. It's pretty straightforward, works great, has all the redirection, virtual is built in. This is the good use, not the evil use. So, you know, what not, try it out. The website basically looks like that. There's a link for the actual presentation. There's the actual tarball for Red Hat Linux 9. We did that for the masses there. And if you really want to just mess around with your Zorus, and I'm telling you it takes a little bit of work to actually get it done, but we've actually put a tarball up there for the Zorus version and we've actually cross-compiled DECPD for the Zorus so that you don't have to. Thank you very much. Well actually, any questions? Five minutes I think. Goons, five? All right, you fire it. Yes. Go ahead, portable road access point. No sir, you're okay. For your portable road access point, do you use any amplification for the signal in order to stomp out Starbucks? You can use an amp and it's going to stomp over somebody. There's no doubt about it. It's also helpful to send the authentication packets to the clients to get them to kick the hell off the previous access point. I believe there's a tool that was presented earlier today or yesterday that did that. That could be integrated in pretty effectively to get people to just bounce forcibly. Other questions while the din is rising? You sir, all the way in the back because I'm looking for a challenge. Any other questions? Yes, yes. What about access points that you use as a sell for authentication on the scratch pages? Here's the crazy thing is that when the user actually logs in the first time, sometimes they're redirected to an ACTBS site. If they're really concerned and they actually are paying attention to the lock icon, you could create an entire SSL-based Apache website, but I'm saying it's not that difficult to just trick people into actually authenticating right with you. They're not going to pay attention to the lock. Well, you said a lot of good things about 802.1x, but in HostAP Demon, the user N Demon, there is actually a support for little authentication server which can obviously support 802.1x. So do you think you will implement fake in 802.1x authentication, at least for EAP MD5 or something like that in the future version? Oh, in the future version of Arizona after the trick out. The question here is basically there are certain 1x authentication mechanisms that are only one way. Just because you do 1x doesn't mean you have bidirectional authentication. So if people are raising the bar and using unidirectional authentication, i.e. all they're doing is verifying the client, the client isn't verifying the network, you can still spoof that. So, you know, the EAP MD5 mechanism is basically a challenge response, and you can just respond back with, yeah, that was a good password, we're welcome to network. So, yeah, I mean that's something that I think as we see the demand, we'll get integrated in. It looks like a one line of code and that's not basic. Yeah, what I've also considered as far as like a future version of Verisnaf, we were going to work on it, is the idea of actually integrating the D off portion and actually bumping people off of the wireless network or something like Air Jack. So, you can combine this with other different types of utilities, certainly. Any other questions? What about the amplification issues? You said that in order to be a rogue point, you need to be much more powerful than the original one. Is it something that comes out of the box or is there anything you should apply for that? I think the question is why do you need to be stronger than the other access point? How do you actually... Well, in some cases the cards actually support bumping up from their normal transmission rate or transmission power rate. And the Cisco cards are obviously an example. They can run at 100 milliwatts. The Cineo cards, they run at 200 milliwatts. And normal access points are usually, in the cases of the commercial ones, they're using like Orinoco AP2000s, which are only running at about 30 milliwatts per card. Nice cards, nice access point, but if you show up with a Cisco 352, you've got 100 milliwatts right there and you're obviously higher.  If you use an Orinoco and then take a pigtail off the Orinoco cable into a 500 milliwatts amp and then straight onto an 8 dB Omni, then you're obviously going to overpower the local hotspot. I was wondering is there any possibility of doing a true man in the middle attack by spoofing the MAC address of the default router that they thought they were connecting to so that you could maintain a connection and they would never realize they'd been hijacked and you could sniff their traffic? All of the nice tricks that you might have seen at Black Hat when the guys from mentally were talking about eater cap and man of the middle attacks, all those things apply here on the wireless network as well as long as you can associate to the local access point. In fact, at Black Hat they were telling everybody to make sure they put static ARP entries in for the default router. We're done here, thank you very much and if you have any other questions, see us. Make sure you're clear on out of here as fast as you can and we'll go with you and we'll be outside if you have questions.


Alright folks, I want to dive into this and note that this video for the most part is an opinion. It does contain a slight rumor, I don't even know if we call it a rumor, it is unverifiable stuff but it doesn't, it conflicts a little bit with the 2025 narrative that's being built for Nintendo Switch 2 but that's not really the point of this video, I was already debating on making this video yesterday and it's because the idea that Nintendo Switch 2 isn't going to come until 2025 isn't like a horrendous thing, like let's say Nintendo Switch 2 was intended to come out this October or November but now instead it's coming out in February or March of 2025. Realistically you're looking at anywhere from a three to four month delay and that's not the end of the world and honestly if the system had already been announced maybe some of this worry, concern, backlash, fear, anger might not really matter, I think a lot of the angst out there really just stems from being in the dark, we have all these insiders, we have all these reporters and journalists telling us things but Nintendo themselves has been radio silent on pretty much everything whether it's the Nintendo Direct or whether it has to do with actual games coming later this year, they've talked about their current slate like upcoming stuff like Princess Peach Showtime, Mario vs. Donkey Kong that recently came out but really quiet on many, many fronts and look we presume we're going to get a Pokemon game announcement at the end of this month but it's an assumption, it's not direct knowledge, right? So it just sort of sits here where because things have been so quiet from Nintendo I kind of still hope that they announced the system in March, I know that might seem crazy because that potentially is a year away from the system coming out but at least acknowledging the system, teasing the system, not pretending that it's not coming like just giving us fans just us gamers the ability to understand that Nintendo actually has a plan moving forward and we don't have to rely on leakers and insiders would certainly to me just be a sigh of relief so even if it isn't coming out till the end of next fiscal year which ends in March of 2025 then I personally can be a bit more okay with the prospect of it arriving then but I'm also not fully on this train that Nintendo is actually pushing this thing out till 2025 despite the reports and despite the rumors and look people always act like I put so much stock into rumors and leaks that I don't ever have any original thoughts for myself well consider this an original thought I still have some faith some belief Nintendo switch to could come out this year maybe for the holiday season that belief may turn out to be unfounded in some regard but there is at least some hope because while there definitely seem to be again rumored to be developers out there that have received some sort of memo from Nintendo maybe all of them haven't received this memo and I do wonder if the memo is actually telling developers when the system is going to launch or if the memo is specifically saying hey not you know this is the one the system going to launch but this is when we want your games ready for the system I actually want to know what the memo is I think the memo if we had it and someone leaked it it would actually be much more clarifying like is Nintendo straight up just telling these developers hey we're not launching switch to until at least March of 2025 or are they just telling developers have your games ready for the launch window of the system in March of 2025 remember Nintendo considers the launch window sometimes to be like six months long well we have this other insider this other let's just call him a rumor person they've been right on well pretty much two major things in the past and haven't technically been wrong on anything yet we're talking about Nash Weedle just for a brief moment because he said something very interesting again this isn't the purpose of this video it's just to show that maybe not all of the people out there dropping rumors agree with everything so first off he puts out this tweet and he says I have been able to investigate so far on the topic of the 2025 launch of switch to the alleged leak does not come from Nintendo to hunt down insiders as has been said so basically what he's saying is he must have heard from some developers that yes they did get this memo and Nintendo isn't intentionally throwing this out there to destroy insiders and hunt down leakers right there this is something that was actually sent out to some third party developers but he also says for now two developers have confirmed to him that they have not received internal communication for switch to in 2025 now I find this to be fascinating because if there was supposed to be this you know universal acceptance from all third parties that it is going to come out in 2025 you figure Nintendo would send this memo out to every single person who has a dev kit I find it fascinating that they sent it to some but not others now again I don't know what the balancing act is here and I don't know what that memo says if it does exist but it leads me to believe that maybe there is a chance it's still coming out in 2024 and they just want specific places to maybe just be prepared in a different way let me let me explain this a little bit Nintendo switch was technically not a universal worldwide launch in fact the official launch for switch I don't think even happened in Brazil until 2020 and our very first source on these 2025 rumors came from a reporter out of well Brazil quite interesting to consider that Nintendo switch 2 will probably not launch there this year because again switch didn't launch in Brazil until 2020 so Nintendo's likely to ride switch in that territory much longer now I don't think that's necessarily true for say like the UK Germany or France or because a lot of these sources a lot of these reporters are actually from Europe in the UK so I don't think Nintendo is going to suddenly have like a massive delayed launch there but it is possible because we're not hearing this supposedly at least reportedly from Japanese developers we also aren't necessarily hearing this from like EA or you know any sort of big western studio for what we can tell all these reporters are located in areas that are overseas but not in Japan and not here in the United States now Nate the hate is one exception because I believe he does live here in the United States and we have no idea who his sources are maybe his sources are Japanese developers maybe their sources at Activision or maybe their sources at Ubisoft who is overseas so I like I don't know right I don't know where these guys have their sources but I do find it at least personally fascinating that no major United States based journalist website has added corroboration let me explain IGN has not been able to corroborate this story they just report on it right they put it out there other outlets you know GameSpot the second largest video game outlet here hasn't put anything out there about being able to corroborate it Kotaku who literally doesn't care about who they whose feathers they ruffle when it comes to leaking things has not been able to corroborate the story polygon has not been able to corroborate the story all the corroborations have been from overseas outlets I do find that just to be notable then on top of all of this the only United States outlet that anyone wants to put any stock in here is Bloomberg because Bloomberg has now officially corroborated this story but the person who corroborated it is Takahashi Matsuzuka and Takahashi Matsuzuka he has actually like gotten this stuff from overseas almost all of his sources are overseas he always like is putting manufacturing info out there or you know obviously posting these in foreign languages such as Japanese so all of his sources are overseas as well from what we can tell based on things we have heard him report on in the past when it comes to Nintendo so while Bloomberg has a report and Bloomberg is obviously you know a reputable place that I believe their headquarters are here in the United States the actual reporter making the report isn't somebody that reports locally they report domestically so it kind of seems weird to me that we don't have a United States based corroboration on this when United States is Nintendo's biggest market and then obviously Nash Mito whether you believe him or not again he's just another person that puts rumors out there and seems to be questionable in that he's only gotten a couple things right but he hasn't gotten anything wrong it's interesting to me to think about how he at least tossed out there that the possibility that not all developers have actually gotten this memo which could mean that Nintendo does still intend to launch it this year it depends on what that memo says if the memo is literally saying hey we're not launching the system till 2025 okay that's pretty direct but if the memo is just have your games ready by the end of the current fiscal year in the first quarter of 2025 that doesn't necessarily mean anything if Nintendo is trying to stagger releases and not have such a front-loaded third-party output like look if every developer is extremely interested in switch to that doesn't mean Nintendo wants the market flooded with 100 200 300 games in that first couple of months what you have to remember for Nintendo is one of the things they've learned from the past is you can't just flood the market with a bunch of games because look one the consumer base is already going to be small too a lot of these games if they all come at launch are just gonna flop right we need to be realistic here if all of the big triple-a third-party games just drop at launch that's going to be a problem that's going to be a big problem because there's going to be a very small install base the games are likely not going to sell very well because of that and in turn they might just be you know inclined not to make more games for the platform Nintendo might be wanting them to wait a little bit so they can get through the holiday rush have six seven eight ten million units out there and then have some of these companies drop their games where there might be a significant audience you know thirsty for more content especially if Nintendo themselves may not have a major march 2025 game because they you know they did something in october they did something in november they hit hard in january and then they're like hey let's let third parties have a couple months and then we'll come back strong in april so i i think this is one of these things where i'm just not willing to let go of 2024 and the largest reason is because the one person though the one company we need to hear from is nintendo themselves uh up until this point everything about switch to outside of the nvidia leak that was a legitimate leak that nvidia confirmed themselves has been a rumor so it even coming out this year it being announced next month was a rumor uh but now the rumors shift and now it's 2025 look i just want to hear nintendo say it i want nintendo to come out and tell me what's going on so at this point it's not that we won't cover more nintendo switch rumors and reports as they come in of course we're going to do that because i'm very fascinated in this entire situation and i uh you know a lot of this is potential information not actual information but potential right could be true probably false who knows i just want to throw out there that i'm not giving up on 2024 because nintendo hasn't given me a reason to give up on it we still don't have like this killer slate of games yet that could change with the next nintendo direct but right now we don't have like a massive slate of games and on top of that the switch sales are declining and uh furikawa didn't even totally shut down next fiscal year gotta remember people talk about how like furikawa told us that's not exactly what furikawa's word said he said switches their lead platform heading into 2024 and that he would talk about the next fiscal year at the next financial briefing which is in may so yeah and if the next system's coming out by the end of the fiscal year he would probably have to let investors know that's one thing that i find fascinating about this where people who think the system isn't going to even be acknowledged by nintendo until you know way later this year if not 2025 is that if it does let's presume that these reports about 2025 end of fiscal year is true nintendo has to let investors know at their very first financial briefing that kicks off the next fiscal year which happens in may investors need to know what the projections are for revenue and sales and they would have to include in that projection the next platform so this is why i i i don't entirely rule out even if it is 2025 that nintendo still might reveal it next month because if the plan is still to come out next fiscal year they're gonna have to say something right even if it's a code name right they have to say something they have to at least say our intent is to release our next platform by the end of the current fiscal year even if that's all they say they have to say something so it is possible they still plan to reveal it when they do and they want a year of height build up or it's still coming out in 2024 i'm very curious on your guys's thoughts on this of course maybe we'll drop a poll in the community section as well ask you hey when do you think it's coming out hopefully we don't get mad about that look we're just having conversations here because hopefully we're shifting to games right uh we just don't have a lot of games talk about so hopefully we shift to games in this upcoming week with hopefully a direct all right guys i'll catch you in the next video