What kind of things did you learn from Noa D? He kind of speaks in these like Yoda-like, I mean he also just is normal and hangs out, but sometimes he'll set up a session, like he would bring me and like, you know, FKA twigs and two other people in a room and be kind of like, all right, go, you know? And he'd talk through a lot of it and then he would kind of let us work, you know? And then he would come back and be like that one and then he'd put some drums on it and kind of finish.    What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brandon Shawn. And I'm Cory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on YouTube, Apple Spotify, wherever you stream your podcast here at the intersection of creativity and currency. And as you guys know, we love to bring people on to represent the path and the idea of No Labels going their own path, building their own unique journey through this creative industry. And today we have a producer who has all kind of accolades. He's worked with people like Kanye West, Travis Scott, the list go on. He's been on the Spider-Man soundtrack, which is a huge movie at the moment. I have yet to see it, but everybody keeps telling me is great. Cory told me like, hey, that thing. Yeah, I gotta see it. I gotta see it. So we have Johann Lennox with us here today. By the way, you're an artist as well. And we're gonna definitely get into that journey. But first and foremost, let's start with, hey man, I appreciate you for pulling up. Yes, sir, thank you. Now, producer doesn't really suit you as cleanly as it fits a lot of different producers, right? Not just cause you're a producer and an artist, but if you read a headline with your name on it, sometimes it'll say composer as well, right? Why composer as opposed to producer? Well, I started like doing classical music originally and I was writing like for orchestras and stuff like that when I was before I even like got into even knowing how to produce or sing or any of that stuff. So I feel like everything I've done since then kind of comes out of that, I guess. But it's also just like the thing that distinguishes me. Like I don't really make beats that much. Most of what I do is more composing for string instruments or whatever, brass, piano. I'll do it on sheet music even. So I think that's the thing that I've done the most and it's the thing that's most, I guess, unique about me. You're still writing sheet music today? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's like programs you can do it on that'll like make it look good. But yeah, I mean like all the strings I've done on my own records and on other people's records. And like even when I go on tour, when I have violins on stage, everyone in all the situations is reading sheet music that I wrote. And that's how I don't have to rehearse really. And I don't even have to be in the room when I record strings for records because they just read the thing I wrote and it's always correct. So it's like, I didn't learn that skill knowing I was gonna use it for this type of stuff, but it's cool that I, I mean, it's lucky that I did learn it. But it's like, I was doing that before I ever got into this type of stuff. Let's talk about that. You started in classical music, right? And it wasn't just, you know, I took some violin classes in school and maybe even went on to college. You went beyond college and actually had a career in classical music for a period of time. A little bit. I mean, it kind of actually started before college. Like I was in high school. I was already getting like paid by orchestras and choirs and stuff to write music for them for their concerts. So are you like a prodigy, man? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I was trying to, there's like a lane that was like that for like classical people, especially. There was like a classical prodigy kind of thing. You know, like they love kids doing that stuff. It's just interesting, I guess. Yeah. So I was, yeah, I was like in that kind of lane. And then when I went to college, I got kind of interested in other types of music too. But I kept doing that stuff. But that's when I started noticing what Kaye was doing with his music and just other artists that are like more mainstream, I guess. So when did the transition start to happen? Like when did you start moving more into, I guess, the rap-pop hip-hop space? Pretty much as soon as I left school, it was like I had that realization that like the way to bring some of the classical stuff that I really wanted to do to like a mainstream audience, which is something I've always cared about. Like it always frustrated me how like limited the audience for that music can be. And it's mostly like old people. It's mostly like a very like traditional kind of audience that isn't that exciting or fresh, I guess. So I was already thinking about that. But then kind of, yeah, like just getting into kind of a, especially the album, My Beautiful Darker is a Fantasy. And I guess Yeezus too, just seeing like, oh, you can put music that's that symphonic or that weird into like a much more mainstream space if you have that kind of platform or know how to market stuff or whatever. So yeah, pretty much as soon as I left school, I would like move to LA. And it was just like, I'm gonna learn how to produce. I'm gonna learn how to sing. Like it was kind of overnight, just starting from scratch. And it wasn't, like eventually I got in with the string arranging for big artists and stuff like that and the composition and figuring out how to combine those two things and into that part of my career. But like initially it was really like just put all that to the side and it was just focusing on songwriting and producing, which I think was important. It was like probably the biggest risk I've ever taken but it was how I'm here. Were you finding success with just that before people knew about your strings background? I was in like decent rooms as a songwriter first. Not like great rooms, but just, you know, I was like out here working with a lot of people and like LA is really good for that. Like there's just a lot of collaboration. It's very easy to be like, oh, like let's get in a session and like pull up or whatever. So that was happening pretty quickly but I wasn't getting cuts really for a couple of years. Like I wasn't really able to get like, I don't know, it's pretty hard. I mean, especially like pitching songs which is kind of, I was on the pop side of things a little bit and you know, you'll do sessions where there's no artists in the room. You're just trying to write a song to then send to like Justin Bieber or something or the weekend, you know. He probably writes all his own stuff but like that's hard. That's really, really hard to do. It's like almost nothing ever gets made that way but if you're trying to go that path and you're not in with those big artists, you don't have a choice, you know. So I think initially a lot of those sessions were just about putting in like reps and just kind of learning, writing with different people, learning how songs get put together I think. How many songs do you feel like for those people who are in those type of rooms that have to send it off, how many songs do you feel like get placed out of whatever amount? I mean, one out of hundreds probably.  But like, you know, if you're trying to, being a songwriter like especially, let's say like pop and R&B like where there really are just people whose job is just to help write lyrics and melodies for other artists, that job is like the hardest job in the music industry to make money at I think because it's like you can sign a publishing deal off of your potential and then you have that money to live off of until you get a hit. And to get a hit is like, the artist has to like the song, they have to cut the song, they have to put the song on the album. It has to be a single and then it has to be a hit. It can't just be a single that doesn't, you know. And then at that point, maybe you recoup the advance, you know. Until that happens, you're basically screwed I think but you can do like sync stuff. There's like other ways in but I think that is the hardest. Cause at least as a producer, you get an upfront fee for your work usually if it's a major artist, whether or not the song does anything, even if it's an album cut, but just pure songwriting is like, that's brutal. Yeah. So you talked about, you know, sometimes you can be in these rooms where it may just be you and writers, no artist.  That scene to kind of help him out. Like I remember you saying like, yo bro, like you just seem nervous. Like let's go outside, take a break. You know what I'm saying? Chill out for a little bit and come back. So do you feel like not having access to artists in that way, messes up the ability to get a hit out of them? Or is it, does it still kind of feel the same whether you have the access or not? I think the really good producers, like I almost never do that. Like you saw me in a hands-on situation with an artist where I was like, I just like him because we're both artists, but almost never like do I, you know what I mean? Like most of my time I spend on my own stuff or I'm just doing strings or something on a song that's basically done already, but like that kind of like ground up process from the beginning. It's like, it's gotta be someone I really like to do that stuff with, you know, and it's like 070 Shake. It's like, you know, Tom the Mailman, whatever, but like I do think that the really great producers often are the ones who I guess don't just make beats, but like are there to really, I'm gonna say babysit the process maybe, I mean there's a better word for it, but just like they really are making sure all the way through that it's like, is that the hook, is that really the one? You know, maybe let's start a new idea. Like they have a sound in mind for like what the final product needs to sound like in order to be a big song, and it's not just like here's the beat, like thanks, I mean, I think you can definitely have a career doing that, but the real goats are like, yeah, or like, yeah, they're making the song exist and kind of watching every step of the process and helping the artist find, I mean you hear about like Jack Antonoff a lot in the pop world and his production style doesn't necessarily have that much of like a signature sound like he kind of, he adapts to the artist a lot, but apparently, and I've never been in session with him, but all the artists done like, you know, Lord and Taylor Swift, like just big like pop stuff, that what they all say, I think, is that he just makes them really comfortable in the room and is able to get them to like tell these stories that are personal to them and write the song they really wanna write, and a lot of that it's just, has nothing to do with anything that you're doing on a computer, it's just like relationship and psychology and stuff like that. That's interesting. Before we get too deep into specific projects and things you've done, I don't want it to be missed that you said you took that risk moving to LA, leaving classical behind for a period of time, like what is that like for an artist who moves to LA? Cause this is obviously that city of dreams where so many people do that, but I don't really hear too many people go through like, I mean, this is like, I'm finding the crib, do you immediately reach out to maybe management or like, how do you even figure out your way through the process? Yeah, it was terrifying. It was like, yeah, the scariest thing, I'm very like risk averse in general, I think. And the scariest part of that was definitely just not, like I had some momentum with the classical stuff and just being like, I'm gonna not pursue that right now. Like it felt like sacrificing him and I spent like a year building up a little bit.  Like that, that felt like a huge risk. But yeah, I mean, living in LA, I guess the way I did it was, I was actually in New York for like several months before that, like right out of school, I was in New York. I was thinking about that, how my friends in New York, I'm from the Northeast. So it's like, it made that seem like the place to go. But I already had in my mind, maybe I'll have to be bicoastal here in LA. I knew LA was important for like a lot of the music that I'm interested in. But basically what I did was I just, I went out to LA a couple times for like a week each and just like really try to pack those weeks with like as many random meetings or sessions. There's more meetings really at the time because I hadn't even really done that much sessions. But I was just like, before I moved to LA, I was kind of like, I was trying to see what was up and see if it was even possible to like do that, I guess.  So that sounds legit, I guess. And he met with me over lunch and just gave me some advice.  I met with a few people who worked, I was lucky that I wasn't connected in the sense that I didn't know anybody in the music industry at all. But like, I was a few degrees out from people who knew people mainly at publishers, like low level A&Rs at publishers. And I met like two or three of those. And one of them was just interested enough, just based off of kind of the classical stuff I had done that they were like, I think it happened that there was a dude named Andrew Gould at a BMG at the time. I think he's at like Rock Nation now or something like that. But he, I think we just connected on, like we were both from Massachusetts and he also played piano growing up. I really think that's what happened, you know? Because I had like eight or 10 meetings that were probably equal or worse than that.  Which is luck, but I do think a lot of times that's what happens, right? And so then with that relationship, I mean, I kept trying to do it in New York for like a few more months. And then kind of with that, I was kind of like, I'm getting more traction in LA. And traction really just meant like meeting people. Like I wasn't, again, like getting cuts or making any kind of money on that. I was still basically just funding it using like, or like paying my rent using the money I had saved up and the money I was making just off of the classical stuff, which wasn't much, you know?  Like it wasn't, you know, like, I definitely had to like rough it for a bit. I like that you did those test runs though, coming out. I'm just, I'm not gonna do anything without feeling like there's precedent for it or there's evidence that there's some, you know, I'm just very, like I said, kind of risk averse in that way. But I felt like that was the only way to, like I felt like I had to come out here, but I just, I had maybe been here once before that and I just didn't know anybody. So I was just kind of like, I'm not just gonna move. I'm gonna at least see what's possible. Let's talk about the fact that most artists fail to understand that it doesn't take forever to monetize your audience. We had an artist literally begin to take off and make $20,000 from his brand new audience in the same month. But how is that possible? It's because we're in a new era, baby. Yes, you wanna continue to build a relationship over time, but the first time you make money from your audience can happen today if you understand the new age music marketing funnel for artists. So if you wanna hear about this approach and how you can apply it to yourself, I made a completely free video to watch at www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize. You gotta make sure you put the www or if you're on YouTube, you can find the link in the description and check out how we help monetize artists for completely free. I promise it'll completely change how you see things. Yeah, man. So one thing I wanted to ask you, you mentioned just coming from classical space, right? This is a genre that's traditionally seen or traditionally is dominated by, I guess the older artists for a sense, right? Have you ever thought about labeling yourself as a classical music artist or still keeping your sound and just seeing if you can kind of come in and like revamp the space? I guess one, have you thought about that? And two, from your knowledge of the space, is that something that even seems to be possible? I mean, I think there's some aspects of that that are kind of interesting. Like you think about like Lil Nas X putting that song out and labeling it as country and then it stood out and it kind of became this debate about what it was this country. And I am very interested in that idea.  Like a lot of random features on it but it was really a classical album that just had vocals and it's kind of hard to describe. You kind of just have to hear a very weird project. I collaborate with a bunch of classical people on that. And I was pretty adamant that we labeled that classical. But I sort of have like, I mean, if you want to get really into this, I think of classical music as like having certain values and I think of like pop and hip hop music as having their own sets of values and stuff like that. And I bring classical elements into my like vocal with the music I sing, like the pop music stuff that I do. And obviously into my production for other rappers and singers, I add strings and stuff like that. But to me it's like those records are not, no matter how much of that you put in because of the format and because of how it's intended to be listened to like what context it's supposed to be used in, it's not classical music, no matter how much of that you put in, you know? And then I think classical music can be classical music, no matter, like you can put eight or 10 rappers and singers on a classical project, which is what I did. But it's still classical to me because it was like basically the way it's meant to be listened to and the way it was written, it's not for the club. It's not for, you know, like it's still, it's like the values and the context that it's for I think to make it what it is. So that I labeled as classical. I'm putting out a classical album later this year that's just string quartet music and stuff like that, but I put like modern production techniques like distortion and delay and like stuff modulation, whatever, stuff like that on it. But I'm labeling that a classical album. And so it's like I'm interested in messing with both sides of it and being like, well, what if a classical album did have a rapper on it? What if it did have distortion on the cello part or something like that? But I still think they're kind of for different. And then I do want to bring people over to the classical side of things as an audience. But I still think it's like the format and the presentation. Like I think the genre, the boundaries are like actually helpful kind of and it's more interesting to work within them than to kind of. Can you elaborate on those boundaries for classical as you see them? And then obviously the values that you say you saw in hip hop? Yeah, I mean, I think, well, part of it's just like what a song is, like I think a song, like I don't hear, like I want classical music to be like a huge deal in America or something. This is like my big, big ambition in the long term. I don't see that as being like, oh, suddenly we have like three minute classical songs on the radio. Because that's not what it's for. You know what I mean? To me, classical music lives in a space where it's like I want to go sit in a room.  To me that it's like it lives in the same lane as like Cirque du Soleil or something to me at its best, you know? Or like operas or like musicals, a little bit of that.  Like to me that's very different from like songs. Because it's on playlists or songs, you know, like just obviously most music in the pop and hip hop space is driven by like lyrics and stuff like that. It's about understanding what they're talking about in a story like that. I think classical music can be a lot more about just like open-ended letting you kind of interpret it how you want and run with that. I think there's just ways that they kind of operate that are kind of different. I mean I do think there's aspects of pop and hip hop music that are close to operating the way classical does. Like certainly if you think like like the Mike Dean like synth album or something like that or like some of like the Flying Lotus stuff or something like that is like, it's definitely more in that. Like let me trip out, let me just experience this as like a long-term kind of thing. Less about like where's the hook? Where's the verse at? You know, stuff like that I guess. But those are both valid types of music. I just don't think. Like you can put as much classical as you want into a song that has a verse and a chorus. It's still gonna be a song, like a pop song to me. You know, or hip hop song. It's like, and so sometimes people are like, oh you're like combining the two and I'm like I don't really see it that way. I think I'm bringing elements of some into one world or advice versa. But I don't think that there's such a thing as like a, I don't know what the word would be, like a genre hybrid of the two. Cause I just think it's like, well which is it? Like how am I supposed, where is this for? How is this supposed to be consumed? I think that stuff is kind of interesting. Yeah, like is that even a model for you to follow in this space? Cause it kind of looks like from the outside looking in, like you're building the marketplace for that type of music. I'm trying to. And yeah, and there's been interesting versions of that. Like I went on tour last year opening for 070 Shake, who's like a rapper singer. And that was like her whole US tour open for that. And she wanted me to, on a couple of the shows I did like my set. And then she wanted me to do like just a classical set also, you know? Cause there was only one opener. We had a lot of time to fill mainly, but also she just loves that I do that. And that was really interesting cause you have all these people who came to a show who know her lyrics, who might be like drunk or whatever cause they're at a show. And now I'm just like, okay guys, I'm gonna do like 15 minutes of classical music now. Like hope that's okay, you know?  Hopefully to keep it interesting. But it is like a crazy thing to ask of people. And I've been enjoying that. And I mean, a lot of people came up to me were like that was my favorite part of the night. Period, you know? Which is incredible.  But it's like, it's okay. Like I'm finding where these people are at and taking them into my space. And I do think there's like, you can push these, the boundaries a bit, but yeah, I mean, really I'm trying to just amass a following that will then come to it, whatever I do kind of in that, give me that freedom. Yeah. When would you say things changed for you, right? You had that moment that really brought you into the industry. You started working with bigger artists. There was like a couple steps. I mean, one was, well, yeah, okay. So I did a concert called Yeethoven with a friend of mine that was like, literally we did a bunch of music from Yeezus with a live orchestra. And we did some Beethoven on the same program. And we kind of, almost like little miniature like Ted Talk vibes of just like in between each thing would just come out and be like, so this is the next thing we're gonna do. You can listen for this and this. This is why they're similar. Here we go, you know? And just to help people figure out what was even going on.  And it was like very viral kind of for obvious reasons. Like you put Kanye plus orchestra in a headline. People love getting mad about us comparing him to Beethoven or whatever for obvious reasons.  But in some respects at least. But that was, no, that was like an awesome thing that we did just for fun that I didn't even know was gonna kind of lead to a lot of opportunities because some of the people I already knew who came out to that suddenly they could be like introducing me to somebody else. Like, yo, have you seen this guy? He did this thing. And it was easier to be like, it's just hard when you haven't done anything. And I hadn't really done anything in this space that I'm trying to get into at the time. But at least that was just so audacious and insane. And obviously incredibly lucky that I had come out of this background enough where I was connected to people who could get an orchestra together and not have to, like it's like an existing organization, like no one had to pay. Like we weren't paying out of pocket for this. It was just like, it was a friend of mine was employed at this orchestra that existed. And he was just like, I wanna do something crazy. And it's like, I was like, what if we do this, you know? So it's like that, I got lucky in that sense. But, and I got kind of lucky because it was actually his idea originally, my friend would just be like, I would love to do something like Kanye's music. And then I kind of came up with a lot of what the idea ended up being and did the music with him. But he was the one who had an orchestra that he had access to. And like, that's obviously insanely lucky. But yeah, so like that, that opportunity basically led to me meeting, Vic Mezzo was kind of the first artist because his management at the time was to David Appleton was co-managing him with like Scooter Braun, so they do Cody. And so I met Scooter briefly and I met Vic and they were just like, oh, you should do strings for Vic. And he did this cool kind of thing, you know, whatever. So I was just like, that was the first one in. And Vic is the nicest dude in the world. So Vic really took care of me and just kind of introduced me to no ID. And later we were doing Travis Barker stuff for a second. He was doing like pop punk type music. And so through Travis, I met some people through no ID, I met some people. And then also around that time, Mike Dean followed me on Twitter also because of that concert, because somebody had tagged him because it's like we did his guitar solo in the orchestra version. And somebody was just like, this is Mike Dean, it's so crazy. And so he followed me and then I hit him and he was working with Vic at the same time. So it was at two points of like, okay, this guy's legit or whatever. And then that's when things started to kind of happen and Mike brought me in on Kanye stuff and Astro World and all that. So that's kind of when that all happened. And then after that, it was a lot easier.  And you're thinking like, oh, I gotta create some music, like for my project or I have a song blow up, have a, I don't know, get a couple of connections, whatever, there's all these typical routes. But the lesson in which you did to me is just create a spectacle. You know what I mean? Yeah, which is hard to do cheaply, but there's, you know, a lot of, I think most people I've seen do it successfully, do it on the internet, just come up with some viral thing that you just, you know, and just really lean into that aspect of it. But it's hard, everybody's trying to go viral right now. But it also showed your talent too, right? So I felt like something like that, it only has to go but so viral because the people can see your talent is not something that, you know, I don't know, you're smashing up some glass and everybody's sharing it, but what happens to it, right? So I think that was, it's pretty cool. And I think that, I mean, I don't know what other people's version for that is. I think covers in general kind of work that way. I mean, others, a lot of people know a lot of covers, but if somebody, like what we had was like the benefit of people clicking on something because Kanye's name is on it and then they get rewarded by seeing something cool is good, you know? And it's like, if, yeah, if you do a cover of a song and you flipped it in an interesting way, I don't think it's that hard.  Like, I think that's kind of the same shit, basically. You know? And then it's like, oh, you did your thing on this.  Like there's a lot of artists that came up just doing covers and stuff first. Yeah, whole lot. Damn, his version of that song is totally different from what I expected.  Remember like he did a tape that was basically just covers, right? You know what I mean? Like it may be that he didn't need it, but there might, it may be that cover in Coldplay and stuff like that, that was what he was trying to do a little bit. You know what I mean? I don't know. Okay. So, I mean, you get into these rooms, like things start to click for you. What was it like just at first in general? Like was it like relief? I'm official now. Yeah, it was really exciting, obviously.  There's not like, how many producers could really do that? Like Kenny Beats could probably do it, like Dean could probably do it, Timbaland could do it, Metro could do it for sure. Metro's the best example, really. Rick Rubin could maybe do it, you know? Maybe, I don't know. You know what I mean? It's like hard, that's a lot to add. Like people, like your fans, when you're a big producer and you build a following are basically just other producers and other musicians and stuff. And I do have a lot of that. And there's some truth, like you can build. It's kind of interesting actually, I went on tour in Europe earlier this year opening for this like Prague rock band called Polyphia, that's like huge on the internet. I don't know, it's like, I had never heard of them, but they're huge.  And they make great music. But like a lot of their fans come to the shows, with guitars to get signed at the end of the show. They have a lot of musicians that are following and they've managed to just build that big enough that that, and then there's other people who aren't that, but it's like, that was a glimpse into like maybe it is possible to just build a fan base off of aspiring musicians or something, but I definitely wouldn't want to be limited to that. And the artist stuff was always the focus for me. So I guess I felt like that was gonna be like helpful, which it has been having the production credits and the connections there. And it's like kind of how I got a lot of the features on my album and stuff is through relationships, through producing and stuff, but that's always been the focus.  That part was amazing, but, you know. But like, but no, I mean, I'm still very much in like, I feel like I'm on the ground level still. Do you want to more so leave the production behind at some point or, you know how Kanye, he did his transition, by and large, he's still a producer. But it's very artist heavy in terms of brain and how people think of him. Do you want to go that far? Or do you want to balance it, Dr. Dre? No, I see him as the model, but it's also like there's this third thing, which is the composition aspect, the composing, which is like, I guess maybe that's like him doing fashion or something. It's just like a whole other thing that doesn't even really intersect with either one. But it's like the amount of beats Kanye is making for other artists these days, it's like, it's gotta be like at most 10% of his time. And I think that, that feels about right to me. I could do a little bit more, but it's not, there's also like, you could do composing for a TV and movies and stuff like that. It's like, is that count is producing? Maybe, because there is producing involved, but in terms of just like being in sessions with other artists, trying to get them a record, like that's, it's fun when it's somebody I love or that I just personally or love their music, like 070 Shake, like I said, or Tom the Mailman, but like, the list is very short and like, really I'm not driven in the way some producers are by just the pure adrenaline of trying to get a huge artist to put your single out. I dabble, like I did three days with this artist, Jess Glyn, who's like a huge pop star in the UK and she's had like, I think one or two big ones here. And that's like so far from the type of music I normally listen to or make, but I enjoy just having three days with her and another producer named Roy Lenzo. And we just like made three songs and I'm pretty sure all three made the album and one's the single or something like that. I mean, I guess we'll see exactly what it looks like, but like that, that was a very satisfying way to do that. I would not want to do 200 days of that a year, you know? But three days of just like a great artist who gets real radio hits is an incredible voice, you know?   Yeah, so how do you balance the, like the creative energy management? Cause I can assume there has to be a point where you may be sitting in these sessions possibly feeling like, hey, I don't want to burn myself out creatively so that when it's time to work on my stuff, I have nothing or, you know, I don't want to feel like I'm giving away my best ideas majority of the time. And then when I go back to my stuff, I don't have anything. So like, how do you, how do you balance that? Yeah, well, those sessions were good just cause it's like, it's so far from anything I would ever do for myself. That it kind of just felt like a break from stuff. And I do a lot of different things, you know?  And that's a lot of work. And it's kind of like a lot of logistical work which is annoying in some way. But it's, it's a good break from all that stuff. Cause it's a completely different part of my brain. And then, then, you know, I got to do some string arrangements for artists. And then I got to figure out my social media plan for the album.  So it's like just having a range of different activities that I think makes me feel like I'm always on some different shit, which is exciting. But also like working with like, like I'll always go do the 070 Shake Session cause she's like basically my favorite artist.  And it's not like I'm making stuff that sounds like her, but just even seeing what she's into and understanding her taste even better.  I work with Kanye very briefly, but like it'd be like the same thing.   And I learned a lot from no ID that way too. Like almost nothing I worked on with no ID ever came out, but I learned so much about how he makes music and stuff that those sessions are just like a vacation pretty much, you know? What kind of things did you learn from no ID?   I mean, there's one that I love saying a lot that he, I told him this like after I was like, you remember saying this?   And he'd talk through a lot of it and then he would kind of let us work, you know? And they would come back and be like that one and then he'd put some drums on it and kind of fit it, you know?    But like I interpreted it to just be like, well, also people always make a vibe but it's like, you know, like really like a song and it kind of speaks to what I was saying earlier which is a song is not just like, oh, this is, this is kind of cool, you know?  And I kind of respected at that level for the most part, he wasn't even gonna bother putting the drums on the song until it was a song, cause the drums are, I think for like one of the greatest drum producers of all time I think it was kind of interesting that he recognized that like, it's not the drums that are making this what it is, it's the vocal. Cause it's a song, it's, you wanna hear, and we did a lot of R&B stuff together, especially, but like, you know, most people out there are gonna be like, what are they singing about? Is this like, this is catchy, you know? That's the thing, you know? And the drums are very important obviously and he can make anything fire, but it's not, no amount of good and no IDVs matter if the song isn't there. Yeah, that is interesting to be that successful, but then still understand where you play your role. Have you seen that, just, you know, not necessarily names, just people, as you've navigated the industry, experienced people who had different levels of success, is that like a common thing that we're the ones that really seem to be locked in, understand exactly what they provide? Yeah, and I think also, I mean, it kind of speaks to what we were talking about earlier, which is just like the really great producers know that there's no, there's no career without the songs getting cut and the song being a good song, you know? And they structure their process increasingly, I find. Even the ones that start as beat makers, the ones that really become big producers, structure how they work around the goal of getting a good song.  I mean, I guess there are probably really big beat makers that just do that, but the people, when I think of producer, I'm thinking like someone who really makes sure that whatever that needs to happen for the artist to do their thing happens, you know? Whether they're just bringing in another songwriter, like, oh, these two might work together, thinking that way. No idea, like I said, putting people together, matchmaking kind of in that way.   He pretty much just like, he's just listening. He's finding interesting people, putting them with interesting people, listening and just being like, I think the tempo on that could be a little faster.  But knowing and having with 100% confidence that that's what that needs or else it's not gonna be the hit that it could be, you know? What was it like working on Spider-Man? It was hectic. I mean, it was between two tours that I was on and it was basically like Metro had just come off of the Coachella set. And I think I texted him because a lot of people were blowing up my phone from that because his whole set started with just like an acapella of my vocals because that's how his Heroes and Villains started and that's how he started. So people were just like, that's Yohan, and it was sick. So I was just like, oh, that's awesome.  So I texted him, I was like, yeah, thanks. That's awesome, you know? And he was just like, yeah, it's sick. Like I'm back in LA, it's like Spider-Verse time. So I was like, all right, cool. So then he hit me like a week later and he was just like, just pull up to the studio and like, actually, you know what? It was probably like the day after that. I think it was literally he came back from Coachella the next day, it was kind of like, okay, cool. This is what the album sounds like. These songs, I think, could use some orchestration, these could use some outros, whatever, some vocal stuff, whatever you want to do. And then just gave me bounces of the four that I worked on. That was actually a pretty good, because sometimes it's like I'll work on a lot of ideas and you don't know what's gonna get used, but that was like, he really knew which four and I worked on all of them and did stuff on all of them and all of it. Not everything I did got used. I tend to like, so that like additional production side of what I do, it's very like, I throw a lot at the wall and just see what sticks kind of thing. Like I gave him like, you know, you could have these like, this big melody here, you could have this outro here, you could also have this thing over on this bridge. I mean, you add this other section, you know, it's like, here's all of it. And then usually like, you know, maybe a quarter of that gets used or something like that, but it's just giving the option so you don't have to keep going back and forth too much and just making it. So there's something in there that he's gonna grab it to. And increasingly, like seeing what he uses also makes it easier to be like, this is what he likes, you know? Like just do more of that or something, but then still pushing it. And yeah, so I don't, yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think. I mean, I saw, I guess I was in with him and Don Toliver for one of them. But yeah, mostly I was adding to stuff that was like pretty finished and kind of just, just did my thing and then came back a week later play it for him. He was just like, I just gave him everything. Tracking strings and a lot of, I stacked my vocals up to make this kind of choir texture on a lot of stuff and a lot of that. You can see on my TikTok, I've been posting videos recently just like showing exactly what I did and how I did it. But yeah, very smooth process. He's like really a professional, you know?  Are producers cool with that these days? You see more and more of them giving insight into the process. There's a range, I guess, yeah. I mean, apparently the kind of stuff that I posted is not necessarily like, I guess he really doesn't like that shit, but on the other hand, like, I mean, I've asked sometimes permission, but I think people are pretty cool with it. I think it's a good question and I'm not totally sure, but I mean, I've done it enough that I kind of just feel like whatever. I don't know, I'll take it down if they ask, but from a legal perspective, I don't think there's any issue.  But I try to just be very gracious in the videos of just being like, this is who, you know, just talking about how good the person who brought me in on the project is, which is usually true and like, yeah, I don't know. There's not like the spirit of leaking it or trying to like. Well, yeah, it's like, I don't have their stems. So it's like, everything I'm showing is stuff that I did.  So it's like, I'm not exposing anything that he did, I guess. I think maybe that's how I would distinguish it.  It's like, here's the song, you know? And then here's my shit, which I did. So I guess I don't feel as weird about that, yeah, yeah.  And then over time, you essentially learn his taste, right? And I imagine you do that with multiple people. From a creative side, if you're the producer or you're the artist, it makes me wonder, does that create some type of risk for a producer or artist to get stuck in a creative rut if everybody you're working with over time with good will starts to send you things that already fit your current taste and then you start to lose exposure to other. Not a balance to it. I mean, I think I always do stuff that's out of the box of what these artists like, but it's good to just know that.  Okay, maybe. Like I just don't.   And then I do that and they're kind of like, yeah.  And they're like, that's crazy. So it's like, I think that sometimes, I think the way actually I kind of think of the string stuff is that like, what I'm bringing to that is already crazy because of the context it's in. You know what I mean? It's crazy to have strings on this type of record. That's what's crazy about it. The strings themselves don't need to be crazy. They just need to be strings. It's the combination, you know what I mean? And so I feel like a lot of times, and I feel like I've told other people who do that kind of work that advice too, where it's like they come in and they're like, time to show off what I can do.  You're like adding one piece to the puzzle and your job is to just do that piece well, you know?  And sometimes I'll throw some weird stuff in there, but generally it's the stuff that's expected that kind of gets used for that. And it's what's unexpected is just bringing me in at all. That's the thing that was the interesting choice from them. And then I can just do what I know I do well and just kind of execute, you know? Talk to you, talk to you.  Maybe from your producer friends or I don't know if you have management or anything like that? Well, I was kind of always, that was always the main thing. I mean, I just kind of got successful at producing first. I guess kind of the same thing as Connie. Like kind of was always trying to be a rapper, you know? It's just, he just got successful at one thing first and that's kind of what happened with me too. So I think I've been pretty clear about that.  Like Marshmallow I worked with reposted something one time that we did together.   I didn't think about that. So I have a lot of like dead weight followers.  It's like, no, these are just people who like want me to post about the Utopia album or something and don't care, you know?  And I try to be responsive to that but I've tried to really like flag the messages that I get from people who are just fans, who came to the show, who like a lyric of mine or whatever and just make sure I respond to those people and just kind of slowly like convert the algorithm to favoring that audience and just build, you know, that. That's crazy, I never thought about that. The problem is a little bit more unique than I thought because there's already the path of producer to artist but like you said on social media, it's not just, hey, I'm a producer. I produce Metro, with Metro, I produce with Marshmallow and now those are two different fan bases and sounds let alone your unique sound as an artist when you start to push that.  It's weird, I mean, I've also just been someone who like does a wide range of shit and like I take pride in the fact that I'm on like a lot of different genres of stuff as a producer and that I'm kind of everywhere and people are always like, dude, how are you on everything?  It's like what? And I like that. But I think as a producer, artist or whatever it would probably be more efficient to just come up with a certain crew of people producing for them and then just also putting myself on the wreck, you know, and then like kind of come up with them that way. Whereas it's like I have these sort of like not very strong relationships with a lot of artists that I've worked with that mostly aren't gonna help my artist stuff at all. They pay the bills, they get me more producer work which pays the bills. But it's not like, like there's no real upside for me as an artist to having another cut with like, well, say that Jessica went example. It's like that, you know, that pop star chick. Like that's, that doesn't, like she, I mean, I guess she could take me on tour with her. Maybe that would make sense. But for the most part, she's just in a different lane. And so it's not like, yeah, like that, it's just, it's more like just the time I commit to that stuff doesn't necessarily help me as an artist really in any direct way other than just getting me paid, I guess. Which I can use to do other stuff, but yeah. So I try to minimize it. And you mentioned going on tour earlier on. What, what is that like being an opening at and trying to grab those, you know, those fans for yourself? Does it even work in your opinion? I think so.  So that feels good. I like that those people, you know, they follow me. They buy the t-shirt. I think if they've done all that, they're probably converted. The most obvious way I saw that the 070 Shake tour paid off was that on the tab with like the artists, your fans also like on Spotify, like we hadn't been on each other's list at all. And after that tour, she was the number one person on mine and I was the number one person on hers too. So it's like, that's only, there's no other explanation.  Like the only explanation is that that many people saw us on tour that it literally the entire algorithm shifted just based off of that and that those people started listening to the music on Spotify. So that felt pretty legit to me, you know? But I don't think you can get huge just-off opening for people. Like it makes you a real thing for people who see you and then if they see your song, maybe, they connect the dots and it's like, oh yeah, I saw that dude on the Shake Tour. You know, he's got this song I love, she's on the album. You know, it's like, but I think it adds to that.  There's no other way to do it. You said you lose money when you do shows, usually when you open up. Why is that? Well, I have live strings on every show and they have to get paid. So usually the fees I'm getting for opening or whatever where I don't fee advanced, I don't know what they call it. That usually basically just covers that, you know? And maybe a little bit of whatever I'm paying, like a playback sound type person.  If it's a tour, then it's the traveling. If we're staying at Airbnbs, it's that. Being on the bus is way cheaper because you don't have to pay for anyone to drive. You don't have to rent a car and you don't have to pay for hotels, you know?  You're trying to feed everybody, even in you got to pay everyone for their time. So it's just, yeah, you make some of it back on merch sales, but yeah, it's an investment for sure. What about your own personal shows? You said you wanted to do some personal shows in L.A. to control the experience more. Yeah. What does the experience of Johan Lennox look like in your mind? I mean, I'm working on this concept. I did a couple of them. I did one last year. I think you might have come to that. I can't remember. And then I did one this year and I'm calling it world's burning.  You know, I have like a string quartet. I make cocktails. I'm obsessed with it. Like mixing drinks is like a big hobby of mine.  So I do that, have some musical performances, have some DJs, you know, like just, and then in a space that's like immersive, like I'm still working on that aspect of it. So really get it where I want, but just like in a room that feels like you've left the planet for like this evening and you're just kind of in a different area. So I always loved like immersive theater.   And it's a way to show off maybe what the headline tour would look like once I get there, but on a scale that I can kind of do it and have like, you know, the people that I work with can come see it. And then a lot of random people that are fans of whatever in LA can come see it.  You got to pay for how that gets set up every night. You know, to totally reimagine the stage, bring your own lighting designer. Like it's very hard to do that. But in a space in LA where I can just do it, I think I'll be able to really show like the full vision, I think. Yeah, I like the concept of like creating shows that people come to see. Like it's something like that. I feel like fits in that box, right? I was working on this festival years ago before I even started working with artists. And that was one of the like concepts that I left with where I felt like theatrical, like really deep immersive experiences would be something that would be cool for more people to do. And now instead of Yohan going across the world, it just becomes so lit and you hype it up so well. Then people, even if they don't even know you too well, the experience in general would look so cool, like people would come to see you. 100%. And a lot of that's just like, you invite certain people, you make it really Instagram friendly.  And I think that happened a little bit with the last one, but I'm gonna really build that up. And then eventually like maybe just take that on tour or it's like every show you do on tour, you have an after party that's that thing or the show itself, you just kind of build the stage set up to kind of reflect that world. Or at least like one off pop-ups like do it in LA, but also do it in New York, do it in Boston, do it in Chicago, Atlanta, you know. More like a moving new museum exhibit, how they do those. Totally. Yeah. Hell yeah. How do you see your community, the Yohan Lennox community that you wanna build out? I mean, I'm glad that there's this like, a lot of like producers and artists and stuff in it. I think visual artists too. You know, just people that are creative starting with them, but I think it's just people who want something that's different and that's kind of crazy and like not just, it's not just gonna be like, oh, I heard that one song. It's gonna be people who are like in for the whole world that I'm trying to create visually, sonically, the values, you know, the story. I definitely think we have an era of like, people who are kind of lonely, people who are very disconnected.    I would love to know your perspective on what do you think when you hear the term no labels necessary? I mean, it definitely is like a thing that I think about a lot or an idea that I think about a lot, which is just like, there's really no path for what I wanna do because no one's ever done what I wanna do to show a classical especially as an end goal, maybe. And it can be easy to, I think it's good to come up with a community. Obviously a lot of artists do that. And I think that is a huge way that a lot of music gets successful is that like, a group of people are pushing it and then their fans, you know, kind of rally around all of them. Usually there's like one or two that really break out of that and go all the way with it. But once you look at people that kind of got to the top, there's really like no path that's consistent. Like not a single person that didn't have some very weird path, you know? And so I think it's good to just not, yeah, like be concerned so much about how it's labeled or how it's packaged or where it fits. I think some of that is helpful. Like it's good to just understand like what the lanes even are.  Maybe I could learn a little bit from here, but there's really no like clear kind of path or brand or label that is like gonna, I mean, I'm speaking like that way. Like labels like, yeah, I guess it also has the literal meaning of like a label. No, it's a double, a triple on Tondra, whatever you want to call it. I was on a label for a minute. I had to did a couple of P's under Island Records and that was kind of interesting. And then these days I do, I'm independent through a district called one RPM. And I would say they've been just as good, if not better in some ways. Like it's just budgets are kind of the same, honestly, as major label, at least for me, like been able to figure that part out. My manager's really good at just explaining the vision to places and helping them understand why they should invest in me. And like, I definitely don't think just since I'm talking about it now, like the actual labels are necessary either. Like I just, everyone knows that now, but maybe at the very end of the path, you want to get something just blasted all over top 40 radio. That's where that comes in. But up until that point, like it's just you and your team, I think building whether you're signed or not. And I don't think there's anything wrong with signing, but if you don't need to, why bother? I think, yeah. I'll say that's one of my favorite answers to that question so far, because although there is the obvious comparison that most people will assume because we're in music, about music labels, record labels, the heart of the statement is actually for us a lot more what you said about no specific path and that entire spiel right there.  I think people are gonna get a lot of value out of it. Everybody, this is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary podcast. I'm Brand Man Sean. And I'm Corey. I'm Yohan Lennox. And yeah, thank you. Are we out? Peace. Appreciate you for watching. If you like content like this, you'll love seeing our music marketing strategies that we use as an agency to actually blow up artists to millions and even billions of streams that are available for free at nolabelsnecessary.com and the cool part about it that's gonna really make you love it is we don't have to be all entertaining and add all this fluff just to get some views that we do on YouTube. We get straight to the information. There's play by play in courses that give you a breakdown of every step that you should do to get success. And you have the ability to have communication with us. We get on live talks, a lot of cool things for members and it's free just to hop in. So check it out right now at nolabelsnecessary.com.


Welcome to Sheboygan County government working for you. My name's Adam Payne, Sheboygan County Administrator and co-host of this program with Chairman Roger Distruty. And of course, as you know, every month, we strive to bring a different department or program area for your interest and overview. And if you've ever had to serve on jury duty or pay a fine or forfeiture, you're probably familiar with the Clerk of Courts Department. And today we're very pleased to have the Clerk of Courts with us, Nan Todd. Welcome, Nan. Thank you, Adam. I'm glad to be here. It's good to have you here. Nan is one of our elected department heads for your term and she's been with the county. She told me on the way here, we carpooled over 35 years with Sheboygan County and that is just wonderful, wonderful. So Nan, please begin by telling a little bit about yourself and your background and how long you've been with the Clerk of Courts office. I was born in Sheboygan County, raised here, left after, shortly after high school, after a little bit of college and lived various other places in the country and finally migrated back here with my husband. We have, I have one son who's living in California and two grandkids, daughter-in-law that I love dearly. And I've been in the Clerk of Courts office for all of my 35 years. You have all 35 years, I'll be darned. I was a little taken aback when she shared that with me. I never believed she was worked with us 35 years. That's incredible. So when you started with the Clerk of Courts, what kind of work were you doing versus now you're the leader? I was in the accounting department. At that point in time, we had changed from a manual bookkeeping system to the first computer in the county and we had the people in the auditor's office saying, oh, everything's going great and we had the people in the Clerk of Courts office going, everything's going great. Nobody ever compared the numbers between the two departments. So I was hired as one of the two people to help audit the books and try to figure out where the discrepancies were between the two sets of books. Very good. And I've been there ever since. And now it's a four year term. I know previously it was a two year term. When were you first elected to be the Clerk of Courts? I was elected in 2000, took office on actually January 1st, 2001. We did the swearing in on the first of the year. And when did they change it from a two year term to a four year term? I think this is my second four year term. So I did like two, two year and now this is my second four years. Have you ever had any competition as Clerk of Courts? No, I've been very fortunate and have had no opposition. Nobody wants my job. Well, if people know about your background and how long you've been working for that department, clearly you know it inside and out. So very impressive. What are the primary responsibilities of your department? Our department is charged with keeping the records of the court. That's our primary function is to be the record keepers for the court system. We also do the jury management. We also collect all the fines and forfeitures and filing fees and do the scheduling for the courts. And how many courts are there? We have five circuit courts and we have 1.9 circuit court commissioners. One of our circuit court commissioners also serves as a law clerk occasionally. So for our viewers who have never experienced any issues with the court system or ever had to pay a fine or anything like that, just what are the five circuit courts? What's their role? What is the role of your Clerk of Courts office? Our county has a system where each judge serves six weeks of intake and that means that any criminal matter, traffic matter, small claims, juvenile, those matters go before that judge who's on intake. Civil and family matters are done on a blind draw so that every judge gets approximately the same number but not necessarily during their intake period. Then they're off of intake for the other judges six weeks and by the time they're back on intake, hopefully they've cleaned up all the cases that they got the last time. And for our county, it's working extremely well. Our caseload statistics are wonderful, our closing rate. So we likely have had viewers that, they may never have had to pay a fine or forfeiture at your office, but chances are they may have received a letter asking to serve as a juror. How does that process work? How does someone get contacted and how frequently could that occur? We every year send out about 6,000 questionnaires to residents of Sheboygan County and we get those names from the Department of Transportation. So anybody with a driver's license or a Wisconsin ID card will show up on that list. They pick the names at random and transmit them to our county and then we randomize them again and we select the people that we're gonna send a questionnaire out to and we send 3,500 questionnaires out each year. When we get all those answers back which they can do online or they can do them manually and mail them back to us, then we select the jury panels which consist of 240 people per month and then the people will get a summons if they're qualified to serve. Wow, wow. So population of about 115,000 Sheboygan County and of course that's all adults and children. Right. If you boil that down to adults with driver licenses, eventually you're likely. For ID cards. For ID cards, eventually you're gonna likely get a notice to possibly serve as a juror. Right. So they receive the notice, they get this in the mail, they may wonder, what is this? I've never received anything like this before. If they have questions or they're looking for information, what do they do? They can contact the number that's on there which is the jury clerk who is very knowledgeable and she would be able to help them with any questions they've got or there's information on the website also explaining jury duty. We send out a little pamphlet that explains how the court trial works. Excellent. Telling them what the opening statements are like and what they will hear during court and how their deliberations are handled by each court. Now people are so busy today and I imagine when some people receive this letter, they're thinking, oh boy, I don't have time for this or I have this coming up in my life or busy with the children. What is the average expectation? How much time does it take to be a juror? Well, you're on a panel for four weeks. So there are 13 panels a year. But during that time we send you a calendar at the beginning and the average is eight trials that you'll see on your calendar, maybe two a week. And on Sunday night you need to call in to our telephone bank and find out what trials are actually going for that week. The statistics have shown the last two years that only 14% of the trials that are scheduled actually end up going to a jury trial. So your commitment really is while you feel like you have to be available for four weeks, it really is only eight times and of those you'll be lucky if you have to report once. Right, right, so if you're hoping to be selected and experience that and provide that public service and the experience of sitting on a juror, actually the odds are likely you won't. That you won't, right. Because they get settled and interested. And once you've served as a juror then you're not eligible for four years. Okay, okay. So do you ever get folks to call and volunteer and say I'd like to serve? Unfortunately that's against the statutes in Wisconsin. You can't volunteer for jury duty. Right, right, right. But I imagine you have some people have experienced it and really enjoyed it. I've had some people that would really like to be on the jury and would enjoy it. And the questionnaires that we send out after each panel period are usually very positive. People will comment that gee I didn't want to do this but I'm glad I did. I found it fascinating. It was interesting. The judge was wonderful that, so we've had very, very positive comments from most of our jurors. I think excellent judges representing Sheboygan County. We do. Good people to work with. And when, this is my final question before I turn it over to Roger, but in that process, so you receive the letter, you know you have to be available during that period.  When someone is brought into court, is it automatically gonna be a jury situation or in some cases will it just be with a judge? And if it's not automatic, can they request a jury? How does that process work? It depends on the type of case. Any criminal matter you are automatically constitutionally entitled to a jury. So when those matters first start out in court, the judge will give the person a preliminary hearing date. They will give them a plea date in which, you know, at which time they could change their plea to guilty or to no contest. And they will give them automatically a jury trial date. And the judges have what they call stack days, which are days that they've set aside. And that's when they've got jury trials, multiple ones scheduled. And then just see which ones actually finally go on those days. If you want a jury in a family matter, a civil matter or small claims or a traffic, you know, non-criminal type matter, then you can request one. It has to be within a certain number of days of your initial appearance before the court or when the case is filed. And there is a cost. It's $6 per juror. So if you want a panel of six, it's $36. If you want a panel of 12, it's $72. If you want a jury- So it's pretty reasonable. It is, it's extremely reasonable. If you want a jury in small claims, it's a little bit more expensive. It's $89 to request a jury. Wow. And obviously the costs are greater than that. Based on providing lunch for the jurors. We recently had a trial that lasted about two and a half weeks, and it was over $6,000. Very good, excellent overview. Roger. Good to have you with us, Nan. I know your caseload continues to increase each year, and we always are challenged with collecting the fines. Approximately how many cases do you have a month or a year? Last year, our caseload was slightly over 14,400 cases. And of those, criminal was probably about 2,000 cases altogether between felonies, misdemeanors, and criminal traffic. We had over 5,000 traffic matters, which are non-criminal matters that go through the courts. And fewer than that in ordinance violations. We did have over 3,000 small claims. We had well over 1,100 civil filings, and we had about 1,000 family cases. And if I may, those are all new cases. Those are all new cases filed with the courts. What was that total number again? 14,400. And what type of fees, fines, and forfeitures do you have and how are they collected? When a new case is filed in either civil, family, or small claims, there is a filing fee that's required at the time that the case is filed. So we collect the fees for that and divide it out at the end of the month between what the county gets, what the state gets. And for any other matters, it's after the person is adjudicated. When they're found guilty or convicted, then they're assessed court costs and fines. And then we do our best to collect those. We offer payment plans. The judges try to set up payment plans in court if they can. We send out reminder notices and if a person fails to pay in the allotted time, then we do driver's license suspensions. We do tax intercepts. We do commitments to the county jail. And we have a collection agency that we turn things over to as a last resort. Approximately how much money does your department collect and what happens to the money in which segments go where? Okay, last year we collected slightly over $3 million, which is the lowest amount that we've collected the last several years. It seems that the economy has hit us probably harder than most departments because our people are the least employable and probably the first to lose their jobs, our clients. Your clients. We paid to the state slightly over $2 million of that money and the county only retained 948,000. So the state's share, and back when I started working for the county, it used to be the county and state were pretty much 50-50. We each got half. And now the state has increased their fees continually and the county is left with a very short amount. Part of the money you keep obviously goes toward your budget, but how much more money is needed to cover your budget, your department's cost? We typically require about $1.5 million in tax levy because all of this 948,000 is not credited to my budget. It's collected also for the victim witness program. It's collected for the health and human services through the driver improvement surcharge. It's collected for the jail assessment, which is a separate fund. All of these things are collected by my office, but we're not credited with that toward our budget. And you have different services that are offered online. Could you explain some of that? Sure. The state has a website, which is www.wicourts.gov. And through that website, there are self-help areas for small claims and for family. There is actually a tutorial for the family that will walk you through the steps of filing a divorce in each county. It'll tell you, you know, ask questions and give you the papers that you need to file. It'll complete them for you. There are a lot of different guides to small claims, guides to family court. What happens when you go to criminal court? As I said, we can do the jury questionnaire online. So there are a lot of good resources through that website. Are there any new programs that are being considered by your office or anything else that we should know about that's coming up new? This year, we hope to implement e-filing, which will be a service offered again through the state where people can file small claims, civil and family cases online rather than coming into our office. They would have to set up their own account username, password, that sort of information, which is why most of the counties that have started this find they have some attorneys who adopt it, but not a lot of private individuals. So we hope to start that. We also want to implement more of our scanning program that we've started in order to maintain our court records, but not have to take up a lot more space in the building than what we already do. And there is a program that we want to develop further that is underway, has been open now for about a year and a half, and that's the Sheboygan County foreclosure mediation program, that I am administrator of. It's actually not a function of the whole office, but there are some of us, including the judges, who felt that with the number of foreclosures that are being filed in our county, we'd like to offer a mediation service to them. So we've just gotten that program started. We've had well over 100 people request mediation and most of them have been very successful. Thank you, Nian. I want to go back to the discussion of the budget. I'm sure when this program is aired, the governor's budget will have been proposed at the state level. And Nian, as you know, the governor's budget is a two-year budget. And for the county, it's an annual budget. And every year, Chairman Distrudi and I, and certainly all of the board members and department heads such as yourself work collaboratively to prepare a budget and try to hold the line on property taxes and continue to deliver excellent services. And of our 20 departments, we only have one right now that doesn't rely on property tax levy, and that's the Register of Deeds. And the reason is, is that the Register of Deeds is able to garner enough revenue from their clients or our customers who are asking for a copy of that deed or a copy of that record. We're able to garner enough revenue to cover our costs. In my humble opinion, if there was one other department that should be able to collect enough revenue, let me take that back, to keep enough revenue, to keep from having to utilize property taxes to subsidize its operations, it's the clerk of courts. And Nian and I, over the years, have talked about this. And in fact, we've submitted position papers to the governor and to our legislators. And the county board has weighed in time and time again supporting those position papers. Back to Nian's comment earlier, you may have heard she said she collected $3 million in revenue this year. Yet was able to keep less than a million of that because two million goes off to the state. And then of the dollars she can keep, some of that goes to support the sheriff's department and other areas associated with the clerk of courts. So I think our property tax levy right now is around $700, $800,000 to subsidize the operation of the clerk of courts office. And there is no reason we would have to utilize property taxes to subsidize their operations if the state would simply allow the clerk of courts to keep a little bit more of the revenue that you're the ones collecting. And we've worked together over the years on showing these charts and graphs and doing these studies. And you did the bulk of the lake work looking at the history. And I can recall you putting together an overview dating back to the 1970s where the state legislature would continue to add these fees to the work that your department does, fees that we need to collect. But time and time again, rather than you being able to keep any of that revenue, it's been forwarded onto the state. I know I'm catching you off guard a little bit because this wasn't one of the questions we were necessarily gonna touch on, but do you have a recollection of just how many fines and forfeitures that you're required to administer and collect yet instead of keeping that, we forward it onto the state? Trying to think back to the chart that we did, there probably were 60 or 70 different types of assessments that my office is required to collect. Of those, we get to keep about half of what's called court costs, which is $15, so we get 750. We get a tiny piece of some of the fines that the state issues. The majority of those go, as you know, into the common school fund, which is never touched and is billions and billions of dollars, and the interest from that fund is what funds the public libraries or helps to fund the public libraries. If we could keep even a tenth more than we do now, it would help tremendously. But as you know, we fought the battle with the state. Representative Lemahue had drafted legislation trying to get us to be able to retain a little bit more, not that we would be taking away from the libraries, we would just be putting a little bit less into that fund each year, and that went nowhere. Right, and so it's just a brief snapshot of one of the challenges that Nan and Chairman Distruty and I have, where we're required to provide services by the state, and that's fine, we've got a job to do, and we're gonna do it to the best of our ability. We are told what we can collect and can't retain, and in this instance, this particular department, what's ironic is they collect more than enough to cover their costs, but because those dollars have been allocated to other areas, including the library system, which again, good cause, dollars going to good purposes, but being diverted from the very people doing the work, and as a result, now the taxpayer, the property taxpayer, has to pick up that difference, and where it makes our job far more challenging, as I look at Chairman Distruty, is when we have a statutorily required cap in place now, where we can't raise property taxes, not that Chairman Distruty or I want to, we've reduced them for the last six years, but if we need to raise additional revenue to cover required services like this, at this point, we don't have even the ability to do that, so it's a challenging area to preside over, as Chairman Distruty's does, as our chief elected official, and then as a department head, who has to put together a budget, just like 19 other department heads, it's challenging. It is, it's very challenging. Sometimes you feel like you're not necessarily being treated fairly by the state, because you're required to do something, yet you're not given the tools or the revenue to complete the task. Exactly. I have a question, Dan. We talked about the five different judges. Would you explain a little bit about the court commissioner? I don't maybe think a lot of people are aware of what that office does and what the involvement in the court system is. The court commissioner is a separate department, and she actually handles the initial appearance for many of our case types. She does the bail hearings for anybody that's locked up in jail. She does those every day at 1.30 on Mondays and 11 o'clock every other day of the week. We do that by video conference. She does all of the traffic returns, which is the initial appearance and ordinance initial appearance. If a person pleads not guilty, then it's sent before a judge, but she ends up adjudicating the majority of those cases. The assistant court commissioner, who is our 9th, 10th court commissioner, hears all of the small claims cases, and for ones that are contested, she will mediate those cases also. The court commissioner also hears temporary restraining orders. She hears uncontested divorces.  So she does quite a bit of work. And another one that comes to mind is municipal court. We have a couple of them in the county, but that's not really involved with the county itself. Would you explain a little bit about that? I believe it's in Falls and... Sheboygan Falls has a municipal court. Plymouth has a municipal court. Elkhart Lake has a municipal court, and the city of Sheboygan and village of Kohler together have a municipal court. And the only thing that those courts hear are ordinance violations, which would be traffic or non-traffic if you have a shoplifting charge. And it's not criminal in nature. It's not high enough to warrant a criminal charge. Or if you have a speeding ticket, those sorts of things go before municipal court. The one thing that they do collect for the county is every fine also contains the $10 jail assessment. So they do collect that for the county. But the clerk of court's office gets no revenue from them. Thank you. Good questions. A lot going on with the court system, and it can be a pretty complex area particularly. And hopefully most people don't have to spend a lot of time thinking about the courts unless they get that letter to be a juror. And then it can be a very, I think satisfying and rewarding thing to participate in our judicial process. Well, excellent overview of the courts, five circuit courts, family court commissioner, the municipal courts. We're into, this is February, this may be shown in late February or March. But as you look at the year ahead, what do you see as some of the key challenges on the horizon? To initiate some more of the electronic programs that we have available through the state of Wisconsin. One is called in-court appearance processing, which rather than writing out minutes and then going and docketing them, they would actually be able to, the court secretary's in-court be able to do the electronic portion of the docketing in court. There are a number of counties who have already begun using this. It does require buy-in from the judges and it requires them to, at least in the beginning, proceed a little bit slower. So we're trying to set up a committee that we will start exploring using this for certain case types. It's available for small claims and criminal matters at this point in time. So we'd like to start implementing that. As I said, we'd like to start implementing e-filing and I'm hoping some of our local attorneys will go along with that because that would also allow us to be paperless because what they would file would come to us through the internet and would automatically set up the case in our system rather than a person having to enter all the paperwork. Always striving to gain efficiencies. Right, exactly. So if any of our viewers have any questions from this program or received a letter, as you said, there's a number on the letter, but generally what's a good way for folks to follow up with you or your staff and get more information? They can contact any of the numbers that are in the phone book. Our general number is 459-3068. One thing I wanted to mention is that we are a court of public record which means that the courts are open to anybody at any time unless it's a confidential matter that they're hearing which many juvenile matters, civil commitments are. But anybody is welcome to go sit in any courtroom that they want and observe anything that's going on in court. I would encourage people to do that if they're curious about the court system. See there are elected judges in action and of course we have a website as well that people can go to to get more of an overview. Nan prepares an annual report every year and we include that on the website. And if you have questions about any of our departments or suggestions for future programs, we're always open to that. And whether you contact Chairman Distruty or myself or go to the website and ask one of those departments directly, you're welcome to. Nan, thanks for joining us today. You're very welcome. Wonderful overview. Thank you for inviting me. And thank you for your public service. Thank you. And until next month, thank you for joining us. We're gonna switch things up on next month. Chairman Distruty, on my left, your right, we're gonna focus on his public service and his career here in Sheboygan County. He's about to finish up his first year as our County Board Chairman. He's hit the ground running. We've got a track record we're proud of and I'm looking forward to asking Roger some questions and for you to get a chance to get to know him better. And then he said, of course the following month he'd like to turn the table and do the same for me. So the next two programs we're gonna focus a little bit more on the role of the County Board Chair and the County Administrator. So until then, thanks for joining us.


Everybody forced here ripping 2022 select draft picks football hobby 12 bucks full case number four random divisions These results can always be found at latent sports cards calm and I did drop you a link in chat as well for these Good luck. Everybody. Thanks for joining We'll do an auto recap at the end First up is an Eagles Silver Auto Carson Strong. That's NFC East Orange Stefan digs Bill's field level 14 of 49 hyper rookie Breeze Hall at AFC East Parsons Josh Allen Ronnie Rivers on the base auto here Ronnie Rivers Ronnie Rivers Cardinals Rams Rams practice squad Rams Hyper Zach Wilson concourse AFC East so NFC West on that one got a The NFC West on the auto there purple field level Josh Allen AFC East 60 of 75 nice card there Rogers a lava Devante price is he a Colt on the auto here Devante price. I think he's Colts Devante price is colts AFC south on the auto hyper Nick Bosa NFC West DK field level old miss color match 169 of 199 tri-color NFC West Ferguson London What was the last break you saw Kyle? Redemption Kyle Hamilton AFC North rookie signatures silver AFC North Kyle Hamilton tri-color rookie field level Carl Aftis AFC West 172 of 199 Hyper concourse rookie Drake London NFC south Tideye coming up after the David Bell auto. That's AFC North David Bell Tideye Josh Allen nice concourse AFC East Number 23 out of 25 There we go a red field level Miles Garrett Browns 65 of 149 Justin Ross Tideye trail and Berkson stations. What a pack Titans trail and Berks 21 of 25 AFC South Roger McCreary auto for the AFC South Titans Got a hyper Cooper cup for the NFC West hyper Adrian Peterson concourse Yeah, Kyle, you probably did. I don't know when the last time you're here was he probably missing mangers Got a Dustin Crumb He I think he is chiefs. Yeah, I was gonna say nine or some reason Dustin Crumb Yeah chiefs AFC West silver Concourse orange rookie NFC West Trey McBride 21 of 49 Romeo Dobbs NFC North rookie red court But a field level 116 of 149 Sutton. There's a breeze hall Ronnie Rivers NFC West Ronnie Rivers practice squad there Jake Plummer try color goes to the Cardinals 97 of 199 Hyper Dak Silver Dak Let's get those almanac breaks filled up for tomorrow everybody Ultra high-end multi-sport the bonte price again. AFC South base auto and that's Colts AFC South Concourse red Joe borough AFC North 106 of 149 hyper field level Jamar Chase AFC North The spiller lava a Ultra high-end multi-sport live hit draft cards and memorabilia this time around Sweet helmets got some sweet jerseys Always got some great cards Jack Cohn also Colts AFC South Silverado here. That's a sweet one tie-dye on the field level Joe borough Eight of 25 bangles Joe borough tie-dye hyper chase young NFC East Mattau Durant base auto I think he is dealers Tao Durant. He's a free agent He was only with the Steelers So AFC North on the Mattau Durant base auto Hyper Justin Jefferson purple Jamar Chase AFC North nice 60 to a 75 on that collegiate color match silver Josh Allen Sam Hal nice color so far through four boxes Jack Cohn again AFC South base auto hyper de hop for the NFC West tricolor John match of the third AFC South Ricky field level 151 a 199 a Ritter silver field level NFC South box five I See gold.  I see a color wheel color wheel Is that what is that Texas tech is that in the homes? It's my home Color wheel There you go. AFC West.  We'll mag that one About a case hit on the color wheel great one there AFC West redemption Garrett Wilson AFC East Ricky signatures great pack here Got a concourse Ricky gold Justin Ross for the AFC West six out of ten Crazy pack loaded pack concourse red Russell Wilson for the end of the AFC West 148 of 149 Ferguson Lot of big vet quarterback color in this. Yeah Broncos country. Let's ride Silverado Jalen Geithen. Is that that charger Jalen guy knees? He's a rookie. Is he I guess it doesn't say rookie on the cars I said had to be rookie color. Yeah, that is church. AFC West. That's kind of strange Jalen Geithen Silverado tricolor Lamar Jackson AFC North Numbered 174 of 199 hyper Jefferson Well, that's a cool tie-dye CJ Stroud turbocharged That's gonna be a random at the end five at 25 tie-dye CJ Stroud the wild-looking card youth explosion auto silver NFC South Kate Otten NFC South purple Jamar chase again other color match for collegiate 58 of 75 AFC North Rokwon Smith And oh it is No, Kate Otten does bucks Fairly well, he's been playing at the game-winning touchdown last week, I think After the Rams choked Justin Ross AFC West on the base auto here to Silverado. Sorry Silverado AFC West hyper rookie Garrett Wilson for the AFC East Johan Dotson NFC East rookie tricolor 77 to 199 Tie-dye auto David O'Jabo to 25 AFC North Ravens on the O'Jabo Hyper rookie pickings for the AFC North purple Alvin Camara NFC South. I think there's a scratch on the bottom of this card I'm gonna send the boxer rapper for the NFC South Camara 63 of 75 Carson Strong NFC East on the base auto Carson Strong's in this Rookie Redfield double Justin Ross AFC West 33 of 149 tricolor Devin White NFC South 15 of 199 silver field level Kyle Hamilton rookie AFC North No color wheels not numbered moving on guys second half of the case starting now base auto Josh Job Josh Job Eagles on the Josh Job so NFC East For Kyle Pitts purple Jerry Rice. That's a cool one going the NFC West Number it's 16 of 75 concourse over Clinton Portis Tie-dye auto Johan Dotson nice card NFC East Four out of 25 there we go Concourse red Traylon Birks for the AFC South the rookie 128 of 149 tricolor concourse Dan Marino AFC East 144 of 199 Base auto Pierre Strong Jr. For the AFC East Hyper Justin Herbert orange Jamar Chase now got Jamar Chase rainbow going 39 of 49 on the field level AFC North Walker Herbert Silver Auto Charleston Rambo there you go Panthers NFC South on the Rambo Red field level Bo Jackson. That's gonna go to the AFC West 66 of 149 hyper Devo Samuel base auto Brock Purdy NFC West It's Niners on the Purdy Hyper Jack Wilson white Tom Brady concourse 14 out of 35 NFC South Michigan Brady Burrow you know a lot of nice vet quarterback numbered parallel so far Redemption Christian Harris youth explosion signatures Christian Harris Christian Harris Texans AFC South Hyper rookie Nicoby Dean tricolor CD lamb NFC East numbered 133 of 199 Woodson there's only one more collegiate product this year. I think the only one let this flawless. I don't think they're doing prism drafts Base auto Trey McBride NFC West hyper plumber tricolor is Zeke NFC East 152 of 199 base auto Breeze Hall AFC East It's getting random at the end of the break Got hyper Jalen Tolbert red field level CD lamb NFC East 15 of 149 redemption Evaketia NFC South rookie signatures Arnold Evaketia Hyper rookie spiller tricolor concourse Rogers for the NFC North 38 of 199 silver Phillip Rivers Three more boxes guys. It's a picket followed by zebra AJ Brown NFC East There we go AJ Brown NFC East and a green Malik Willis four of five X factors signature AFC South big rookie auto there Going to Jeremy Q with the AFC South. Oh sweet Malik four out of five crazy pack concourse orange burrow now five out of 49 AFC North Redfield level Kyler.  I guess NFL color match 27 to 149 Garrett Wilson silver geez Green Malik Willis Zebra on the AJ Brown A Jalen Wattemeyer. I believe he's Bill's AFC East on the base auto Tricolor Chad Johnson goes Bengals AFC North 48 of 199 Russ No Zebra is not numbered counts as a case hit Zebra and selector never numbered got a Charleston Rambo auto for the NFC South again concourse red Terry McLauren for the NFC East 135 149 hyper Derek Henry So Bryce young will attach that to the We'll attach the price young to the Stroud You don't have to talk about Rambo's NFC South all right two more boxes Base auto DeMarvin leal for the AFC North that Steelers DeMarvin leal AFC North Hyper Jerry Rice purple concourse Randy Moss. This goes to the Vikings NFC North 12 out of 75 base auto Derek Stingley for the AFC South Is he Steve is he Concourse red TJ want for the AFC North five of 1 to 49 another Zach Wilson AFC East concourse try color 42 of 199 Russell Wilson remember Steve lying is bad before he answer the question a Jordan Davis Ricky signatures NFC East NFC East Jordan Davis Hyper Carson strong orange concourse Sean Alexander for the NFC West 1949 And last one good luck everybody we'll do an auto recap after this Also got that random for the we're gonna do all NIL cards go to the same spot There's the only really big one was that had I strowed We'll attach anything else to it like base and silvers It's only a handful of guys Got a cam Taylor Britt auto cam Taylor Britt Cam Taylor Britt Who you play for bangles? That's AFC North Got a try color Randy Moss for the NFC North 79 of 199 Got a Brock Purdy again NFC West base auto Heath Miller white AFC North field level for one 32 out of 35 Red field level Zeke for the Dallas Cowboys NFC East 14 of 149 A couple cup Yeah, 150 points random at the end here as well McCaffrey try color numbered 159 of 199 for the NFC West now collegiate uni is gonna go to his current team That's 49ers. Oh, this is so new Yeah, as collegiate uni goes current team or longest tenure if they're inactive so that goes to the NFC West Okay, so we're gonna do one random here The top spots gonna get that tie-dye stroud the second spot's gonna get the 150 points So again top spot in this random is gonna get the tie-dye CJ stroud insert 5 out of 25 turbo charged That goes to the top spot in the random second spots gonna get to 150 points Good luck six times four and two in top two one two three four five and six Tim big is both The two spots you got both Sometimes it'd be like that. There you go Tim. Okay recap here I'm just gonna call it the auto names guys. I'm not gonna be able to remember every single division really quickly So we'll just go by the names Brock Purdy Cam Taylor Britt Jordan Davis Derek Stingley junior DeMarvin Leal Charleston Rambo Jalen Widenmeyer Arnold Eviketti a Breeze Hall Trey McBride Christian Harris Brock Purdy Charleston Rambo Peer Strong junior a tie-dye Johan Dotson Josh Job Carson Strong tie-dye David O'Jobbo Justin Ross Kate Aughton Jalen Geithan Garrett Wilson Jack Cone Mattau Durant Jack Cone Devonte Price Dustin Crumb Roger McCreary David Bell Kyle Hamilton Devonte Price Ronnie Rivers Ronnie Rivers You got the green Malik Willis auto tough five for the AFC South and Color Real Mahomes AFC West that'll do it. Thanks again everybody more football coming up


And now to health matters. In the wake of the brain-drain syndrome being experienced in Nigeria, the country has continued to record landmark clinical procedures and treatment in a variety of medical and surgical specialties. This is evident in the successful completion of two complex pediatric surgery operations in children aged 12 years and five months old respectively by the Dutch hospital in Lagos. Addressing the feet in a press conference, the hospital says a combined team of cardiac surgeons, cardiac anesthetists, specialized theater nurses, perfusionists, and intensive care specialists led by Dr. O'Neal Cuellon-Zewi and Professor Baudet Fallasci, successfully performed an aortic root replacement for an unusually large aneurysm of the ascending aorta in precious collage, a young girl aged 12 years old.  Commenting on this landmark achievement, the CEO of the hospital, Dr. Adeto Kumboshita Bey said the two patients who have survived complex surgical procedures and can return to their normal lives are a fitting testament to the excellent facilities ensquealed personnel in Nigeria. He spoke alongside others. We have a direct responsibility to pass on the benefits to the consumer. The reason this is called the Dutchess International Hospital is because Nigerian patients are worth it. It's a world standard of healthcare anywhere in the world. You do not have a smidgen of a chance of solving the health care problems of the population if you cannot make it affordable. And that certainly is a responsibility that big and robust organizations like this must take to heart. Okay, thank you. I will start by giving kudos to my wife because she was sensitive and observant enough to observe some anomalies from the child there, from kudos to the child. Because immediately after two weeks of the bed, she called my attention. She found she felt some difficulties in breathing. And there is this kind of indentation below the ribs like this that really caused her attention. And we went to the hospital, she was doing bed sleep and they recommended the state for about three months, say if it's possible the baby is closing and as our father, the chairman of Wright's, was limited. He came to the hospital, he said, okay, he recommended duchess. He said the best place as far as his concern to take this baby for a compounded surgery like this is duchess. That was a machine to normally to check the blood coagulation. It goes for about a thousand pounds. That was us there who are not talking about the current death degenerates. So we approached them, we said we don't have fun for this. And they gave us free of charge, they booked it, they ordered it from UK and they gave us free of charge. So we don't pay for that now because we only run the test at home.