Yo, what's up everybody? 10 o'clock, I'm in my office at home and we're gonna talk a little bit about stress and anxiety. This is that thing though where I can't see who is watching. Facebook is not showing me, it should. I'm gonna give it a minute for everybody to catch up.  I'm gonna check it out on my phone. That's what I'm gonna do. Oh, there we go. Hey, Donna. Okay, now it's showing me, everybody. So that's good. Just give me a minute. I'm gonna wait for the rest of the folks to kind of wander on in. How you doing tonight, Donna? Let's see, is it too, I have a fan running over there. I don't know how loud it's gonna be. Hopefully it's not too loud. 10 o'clock, Eastern, it was a last minute decision, sorry. What are you gonna do? Next time I'll plan a little bit more ahead of time and actually at some point we're probably gonna do one. I'm gonna talk to Holly and we'll maybe do one like a Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon where it's okay. It's early afternoon, our time in the US and Holly is like six hours ahead of us where she lives. So we'll do one together, we'll do live. A few people have asked for that. All right, I'm looking at, I can't see who's here. I see four or five people, but I guess we'll get cooking anyway and everybody can kind of join in as they go. I guess if you're watching, just use the comments and say hi so I know you're there because I can't tell who's here. Does it let me see? It doesn't let me see. So anyway, what I wanted to talk about tonight was the topic of stress and what happens when you're like stressed and you're dealing with anxiety. What up, Ben? My buddy Ben, Ben and I go back many years with this stuff. So yeah, when you're dealing with stress, high levels of stress, I'll just kind of relate my experience over the past couple of months, couple of weeks really especially, but I just have a lot going on. There's a tremendous amount going on in like every aspect of my life and especially the last week or so. Hey, Jeff, last week or so, it's just kind of stress upon stress upon stress just kind of piling up and it can take its toll. So I'm feeling it, I'm not immune to feeling stress. And I think what winds up happening for people like us is when we feel stress, sometimes that stress can manifest as fear. And I know many years ago, I wrote a blog post about that. I don't know where that is, but maybe I'll put it back up somewhere. And I talked about when stress becomes fear and the difference between stress for just somebody that doesn't deal with anxiety or panic type issues and people like us, is that often that stress can manifest as fear. So I'll kind of tell you that this afternoon, I wound up, people ask me all the time that I still feel anxiety. Yeah, I definitely do on a regular basis. I just don't let it kind of rule my life anymore, except, and then people also asked, do I have panic attacks? And the answer to that is yes, I can, you know, I have panic attacks now and then. So this afternoon, I actually had one. We had snow today and I was shoveling snow, which, you know, makes sense. My heart rate went up and everything. And honestly, this was a little different type of panic attack for me, but it was full-blown boom where it flashes really quickly. And I think it was really just a physical expression of stress, like I said, stress upon stress upon stress piles up. Then I get out and I'm shoveling snow, which is something that I really didn't want to do. The snow was kind of pissing me off and bam, there it was. So I had to drive to my office, which is where I was headed, like kind of in a full-blown panic. And I should have actually recorded that. Hey, what's up, guys? All right, Levi is here. Kim, how's it going? Kathleen, how's it going, Kathleen? So yes, I even experienced the panic attack because I had to do them while driving to work. And I think next time that happens, I'll try and video so you guys can see what it looks like for me. But, you know, I think it was really a stress response. So, you know, for folks like us, often when we're super stressed, it can really start to manifest this fear. And when we're extra stressed, we may have more of a tendency to start letting the anxiety run away with us. So I don't know, those of you who are here, oh, I can kind of see just about everybody now, which is kind of cool. Yeah, if you're stressed, you know, how does it show up for you? So if you wanna, anyone wanna chime in, you know, with comments, that's fine. But what can tend to happen is the stress, like I said, can manifest this fear. And then any of those anxiety symptoms and sensations that you're dealing with get magnified and it becomes much harder to deal with the, oh my God, thoughts, and you start engaging in that irrational inner dialogue with yourself.  And stress can make it harder.  Is anybody else having video problems? Seems pretty smooth for me, but I can't really tell. So yeah, I guess your anxiety symptoms, hey Laura, what's going on? Laura popped in. Yeah, so anxiety symptoms, physical sensations can be magnified by stress. And then since the stress can kind of morph into fear, we begin to fear those symptoms even more.  So, you know, it's really something to be aware of. Levi says, it gets super irritable and cranky when stressed. Ah-ha, yeah, I usually crave junk food. Well, that's a good topic for a minute or two. Like, you know, some people, I think when you see a change in your habits too, that can often, you know, be an indicator that your stress, sometimes we're stressed and we don't even realize it.  So paying attention to changes in your behavior, you know, sleep issues, and let's talk about sleep per second too, kind of rambling a little bit, but let's talk about stress causes great anger in me, Jeff. I can relate to that to a certain extent, definitely. That's a thing. But so sleep patterns, the things you want to eat and drink. I see Kim talking about drinking comms me. If you're likely to maybe turn to medications or even, you know, things like smoking or whatever it may be, you got to pay attention to that a little bit. Like, are you turning towards certain things that you normally wouldn't turn to? That could be an indicator that you're dealing with stress. When your anxiety symptoms, you know, just get really magnified and they're hard to deal with, that could be a little bit difficult as well. So, Jeff, the stress causes great anger that's a good point. I can relate to that. That is something that, I'm sorry, Chief. That's something that I can kind of relate to as anyone's coming in and out. You know, we'll take it two seconds here. Is anybody else, Don is having video problems or I guess she's losing the video. Is anybody else having problems? Can't, it seems okay to me. I can't tell. I can put it on my phone, but I'll do that. My feet is fine. Thank you, Levi. Yeah, I think that could be happened. Yeah, I see people coming in and out and I'm not really sure. Next time, maybe I'll just plug in the ethernet as opposed to using wireless, but my connection's pretty solid. So, dare turn me towards anxiety. Yeah, it might be in our neck of the woods, Donna. Oh, okay. Dizziness, Billy, how you doing, Billy? Yes, we talked before. Laura's having a problem with video. Good. So, I'm seeing anger. Jeff talked about anger. I can relate to that. I tend to have that, hey, Ann is here. What's up, Ann? I can relate to the anger thing. I have a short fuse as it is and sometimes when I'm super stressed that that will ratchet up for me too and it can express this anger. And for me, I can relate that what really helps in a big way is regular exercise. I have to get to the gym. I have to lift. Lifting heavy is a real stress reducer for me and that helps take the edge off the anger. So, Jeff, I don't know if that helps you at all but that's what I do to help bring that down a little bit. It doesn't really take the worst stress away completely but when I walk out of the gym, I'm really not thinking about stress and it does dissipate that anger response to a certain extent, which is nice. Let's see here. Jaw clenching. Kathleen, yep, I can relate to that too. I have, I know I used to do that a lot so I would say I got a punching bag over Christmas. Yes, Levi, I have one too. I have a heavy bag hanging in my basement and it's awesome. It doesn't take the place of heavy lifting for me but good, Jeff, you should start going to the gym. Start slow if you've been inactive that could be a thing. So, you should be careful with that. Yes, Donna, it will post as a replay. I'll leave it up on the site, on the page here so you'll be able to watch it. So, that's good. So, jaw clenching and things of that nature whoever mentioned that, muscle tension and jaw clenching, I had to really work a lot on my body language and my posture and make sure that I wasn't doing things like clenching or hunching. I used to crane my neck. I used to do a lot of poking and prodding and that sort of stuff. So, yes, if you're dealing with muscle tension when you're stress ratchet up, one good thing that you can work on is progressive muscle relaxation which teaches you to identify that and then let it go in certain parts of your body. But I try to work on always maintaining like a neutral and a soft body posture so that I don't, when I'm stressed or anxious I don't wind up, you know, I'll tend to stop. Yes, slow is good. Yes, that is true. Jeff, and I'll just to quick, Jeff, if you're gonna start at the gym and you haven't been at the gym for a long time, you haven't been exercising, just be aware that when your heart rate is up and you get the blood pumping, it can start to feel like the symptoms of panic. So, some people have a problem with it. So, just be aware of that going in. It's perfectly fine to do that as long as you're healthy but that could be an issue. Billy, I'm doing more minutes by your advice. Very good, I'm glad that's working out for you. Yeah, time over distance, right? So, Levi, are we supposed to turn towards stress? Like work stress in the same way we face fears? Oh, you know what? That's a really good question. I'm gonna say no. I don't think we should necessarily embrace stress. So, here's the way I kind of see that. That's a really good question. That's a really good question. So, the way you kind of see this is, we could get, hey, Lydia. Lydia's coming in from Toronto. Mira, how are you doing? Nice to have you guys here. So, let's talk about the stress and Levi's question, should we turn toward the stress? Like I always talk about turning toward the anxiety to face it. I think the answer is no, but the chain here for me is when stress level goes up, your anxiety level can go up. So, you do wanna take steps to reduce your stress because we can do that. We can actually do that. And those things can be really quickly. Jessica, how's it going? Thanks for coming by. So, and when you're dealing with stress management things like exercise or meditation, meditation, I highly recommend progressive muscle relaxation. When you find ways to reduce stress, you can reduce your stress level quickly, right away. It's not like when you're trying to overcome your anxiety or panic or agoraphobia and you have to work on those things for weeks or months. So, you can really address the way you handle stress quickly and as part of your daily routine, your daily lifestyle. And I think if you can bring your stress levels down, then you could potentially bring your anxiety levels down. So, I don't think you run toward stress. You do try to find out why you're stressed and either eliminate those things or find ways to dissipate the stress. But when the stress causes anxiety, you do not wanna run from the anxiety. So, that's such a good question and it's an odd answer. Like, no, you don't wanna embrace stress, but you do want to go into the anxiety as opposed to running from it. So, it's a tough one. I think try and manage stress the best way you can. Be aware of it, you know, be aware of it. I think sometimes when we're living in high anxiety situations, we can forget sometimes that there are outside influences. Hey, Missy, how you doing? Thanks for coming by. When we're dealing in high, oh, no problem, Jeff, take care. Good luck, keep us posted. So, when we're in an almost continuous anxiety state, I know some people might be, I know, let's see, let me go back up a little bit. Kim, I know that you are in kind of a bad situation. Right now, it seems to be that your anxiety is running away with you. I notice by your comment. When we're in those situations, sometimes we forget that it's not always just about how we feel inside and what we're causing ourselves. But, you know, there could be outside influences, family and job and money and relationships and all that kind of stuff. So, we should be aware of the things that maybe we can control, right? I think it's important. So, let's see, stress is a silent killer. That's true, Billy. Stress does have a negative impact on our lives. It's a problem. Not to be a weirdo, says Ben. Too late, dude, I'm only kidding. Hey, Barbara. So, let's see. Laura says, anxiety, actually, anyone actually focused less on the anxiety when there was a real stressor? Yes, that's super. That's a really good comment, Laura. Thank you for that. I know that we were, one of the podcasts I was doing in the videos with Billy, maybe a month or two ago, his dad was going through some things and he had to take him to the hospital. And I think he related how when he had to do that, you know, he wasn't really thinking about his anxiety. So, yes, that's true. And I think in a way, when there's a real stressor, like an immediate stressor, you know, if you have kids or something, your kid gets hurt or something happened for bed or you get hurt or there's some big, there's literally a fire, something like that, you get outside of your own head and now you're focusing on that outside stressor, that event that needs to be taken care of right that minute.  I'm not afraid of my racing car. That's why distraction, so many people use distraction as a technique. It's not a good long-term overall strategy, but because you can't always distract yourself, but yes, Laura, that's actually a real thing. When there's real stress or real danger or real event that you have to take care of right that minute, suddenly your anxiety takes like a back seat because you're focused outside on that stressor, whatever that is. So Barbara, what does Barbara say? My anxiety and panic have taken over my life lately. That can happen. That can happen. It's important to acknowledge that that can happen and understand why it's happening. That usually means that you're continually focused on how you feel all the time, right? That's a bad strategy. We don't want that to happen. But I get it. Jody, how are you? Oh, Jody related to Billy, I take it. Same last name. Ben, Ben actually said sex is the best stress reliever. That is true. That can go both ways. So we'll talk about that for a quick second.  I would tend to agree. But then there are other times when you are so stressed then you just don't feel like that at all. So both things can happen. That's a really good point. Let's see here. I believe there's a training for catastrophe every day. So when it happens, we're ready. That's a good point. You're right.  We're just on alert for how we feel. But when we're on alert and ready to act all the time when something actually does happen, bam, we're right there, like Johnny on the spot. My life seems to be going calmly. That's when my panic attacks from missing. That's a good point. And that's because when you have nothing else going on, you can focus inward and now you care about how you feel and what you're thinking all the time. And in a way, hang on a second here, like my snowman mug is very impressive, isn't it? So when your life is quiet, yes, that can happen. That can happen. Because then we focus on ourselves, which is how am I feeling? What am I thinking? Every sensation, every thought in your body. So that's pretty common. Sherry, I'm trying to keep up with the comments. This constant stressful anxiety scares me a long time. What's it doing to my health? That's a good question. And it's kind of debated. I mean, we don't want to bathe in cortisol and stress hormones all the time, but you have to remember that that's not where you want to focus on that. So you're stressed because you're anxious and then the anxiety adds more stress because you're afraid of how you feel and isn't gonna damage your health. So don't get stuck in that. Like, yes, you want to work on it and be able to get out of the anxiety. But there's really no, I wouldn't worry so much that every moment that you're feeling anxious, you're shortening your life or anything like that. Should people with anxiety find lower stress jobs? Levi asked, that's a good question. Let me just scroll through the comments real quick here. Ancest X stresses me out, does it? Yes, very stressful. Jody's my wife, cool. Well, Jody, thank you for hanging in there with Billy. That's really very supportive. I like it. So Levi asked, should people with anxiety find lower stress jobs, at least when dealing with recovery? Okay, I'll relate my own experience. So when I was going through the worst of my stuff, let me think about this. I mean, I've had several times in my life when it's gotten really bad. And when I was dealing with coming off of anti-depressants, I was one of those people that experienced that withdrawal. I know the pharmaceutical companies hate that, but it took me a good six or eight months to get through that. It was horrific experience for me. And I did, you know, I was working all the time. I was involved at the time I had merged my company with another company. And so I didn't have the luxury of hiding. I would say that actually getting involved and having to work every day and go there and sit there and manage a large network. And it was a technical job and manage people every day was high stress, but I'm happy that I did that. To me, it was good because I went into it as opposed to running from it and having to adapt and do that work while I was going through all that stuff was in the end, the better way. So I don't necessarily think that we should be hiding from high stress jobs.   That's my overall feeling. Scrolling here, let's see here. Yes, everybody likes my mug. Jessica says, I feel like I go one week on normal and next week I'm on a hair trigger. Is it possible to have legit problems with your adrenal system? That's kind of stress related. So I'll address it. I am not a doctor, right? So I'm not giving anybody medical advice here. I will tell you that it's a very hotly debated topic. So people on alternative medicine and things like holistic healing will tell you that adrenal fatigue is a real thing and there's eight zillion supplements that you should be taking to support your adrenals. Yet people in allopathic medicine and in the research field will tell you there's no actual clinical evidence for adrenal fatigue or adrenal burnout because of this. So that being the case, Jessica, sure. People do have adrenal gland problems. It's a thing. And if you suspect that, you might wanna go see your doc and talk to an endocrinologist, but I'm not really sure. Jury's out on that one. I'm not sure that I like to hang my hat on, yes, my panic is caused by adrenal problems. It could be it's possible, but it seems to be a rare thing. So let's say we turn things into stress with anxious thinking, acceptance might help. I agree with that. So sometimes we have outside stressors that we can't control job and money and things of that nature, but we can make it worse by the way we interpret those things. So when you learn to accept, well, there's two things going on there, Donna, there's accepting your anxiety as part of recovery. And then there's also just sort of being chill and zen about life in general. So we can sometimes choose what will stress us out and what will not. So I think that's a thing, right? So choosing, trying to learn to accept, what is that thing? Let me understand the things I can change or things that accept what I can't change. And I like the serenity prayer. I don't remember it up top of my head, but yes, that's a thing. So we could make things worse by the way we may stress out other things that don't necessarily need to be stressed out over. So that's important too. Barbara, my high job actually helps me when I'm working and have less anxiety.  That was a bad time for, oh yeah, yeah, Ben's kind of saw me through some of those days when I was going through that stuff. The antidepressant withdrawal was difficult. I'm gonna talk about that at some point. I know it's a big topic. Hey, Lisa, how you doing? Have anxiety in the state? Strong, positive, fought it off. I can get anxious, but I'm stronger than it. Yep, that's cool. I love, I love, love, love that. Thank you, Lisa, that's great. I would modify that fought it off thing because if you've been following me it's not necessarily about fighting it, you know? But yes, you got past it and it's great and it did make you a stronger person. I would agree with that 100%. That is great, hope to get to that point. Do you have any advice on morning anxiety? I will talk about that. Let's see here, find it hard to float. That's what you're supposed to have, but it's hard to do. So I'm gonna talk about morning anxiety. I'm talking about what Janet just said. I find it so hard to float and accept panicky feelings. Okay, most of my stress, resisting my anxiety. Okay, so let's talk about that. Morning anxiety. So I'm gonna talk about morning anxiety. I used to have that in a huge way, so especially when I was sort of chemical scrambled eggs after the antidepressants. I would wake up at three o'clock in the morning, not be able to go to sleep and I would be in a knot instantly. So it's instant anxiety the minute I would open my eyes in the morning. So a lot of people talk about cortisol levels and cortisol levels, which cortisol is a stress hormone. It does, we can measure those things and your cortisol levels can be higher. And if you're watching in Florida, don't be, I know what you're gonna say, I'm talking about this, but cortisol levels are higher in the morning. They just are, right? We have natural circadian rhythms and chemical rhythms and we know that cortisol levels are higher in the morning. And so some people kind of talk about that. Like we have morning anxiety because of the cortisol levels, but I don't know if that's, I'm sure it plays into it, but for me what I discovered was my morning anxiety was more about anticipation. So morning anxiety could be, and for me it definitely was, I would open my eyes and immediately think like, oh God, here we go again. Like here comes the anxiety, the day's gonna, I would lay in bed at three o'clock in the morning and think I have like four hours before I have to get into the world again, which I don't wanna do. And so the anticipation of having to live the day was so difficult that it would ratchet my anxiety level up. So Billy, I don't know if you feel that in the morning, but that's definitely a thing. It was a thing for me. It was a big thing for me, as a matter of fact. And when I learned what helped me with morning anxiety in a way, and I think it's a chicken and egg thing. So when I wasn't anticipating horror for the day, my anxiety level, my morning anxiety went down and I'm sure my cortisol levels dropped as well. But what helped me was that I would discover it became predictable for me. I would get up in the morning and up early, early, wouldn't be able to go back to sleep. My anxiety level would be through the roof, but I would know I'd be able to predict it by the time I hit 11 or 12 o'clock around noon, and especially by the time we got to five or six o'clock, my anxiety level would be down. So I would know like, okay, well I feel like crap right now, but I know that later I'm gonna feel better. That helped as soon as I recognized that and said, okay, cool, I know this is gonna happen. This is just the way I'm gonna feel right now, and I kind of accepted that. The morning anxiety started to go away. But now, so let's talk about Janet who said, finding it hard to float through those feelings, and yeah, we talk about being able to float through that stuff all the time. So part of what I was talking about with the morning anxiety is that. I just learned to accept like, oh, I feel like this now. What's the difference? I felt like this, you know, 68 mornings in a row. So what's the difference?  So when I accepted it and all the feelings that came along with it, it began to go away. There's no, I know it's hard. I know it's hard, but there's no, I think it was Ronald in the discussion group who posted about how accepting is not a skill. It's not a technique, it's actually a mindset, right? So, you know, just think about that, Janet, if you will. Like you just have to decide either you're going to accept it or you're not. It's tough, but I wish I could tell you that there's some sort of technique for accepting the feelings, but you just have to decide that's it. I'm just gonna let this go. It's more of a mindset than a technique. So what else do we have going on here? Most of my stress comes from resisting my anxiety and bad feelings, okay? So that's like a self-feeding cycle. That's tough, for sure. And again, I start to sound like a broken record when I talk about these things, but like, yes, it's when I just kind of embraced it like, okay, this is the way it's gonna be. I'm gonna feel like this or I have these symptoms and that's it. Things definitely got better. So when you fight against, when you fight your symptoms, you fight the anxiety, it becomes, it's a source of stress by itself because then you're bracing against it, you're waiting for it to come back. It's a little bit ugly. I wish I knew what all these things, I guess, oh, people are liking the comments and stuff. Okay, cool. Oh, I got like an angry face just went by. Waking up dizzy every morning. Yeah, right on, don't want to face the day. Sure, that's probably a good reason for you're welcome, Janet, no problem. Thanks for asking the question. Yeah, not wanting to face the day is rough. I think, I don't know if anybody also finds, and again, keeping it back sort of on the topic of stress, I would have much less anxiety come Friday. Amazing, right? Because like it was the weekend and I didn't have to go to work on Saturday and Sunday to have to be in the office. When my life was a little bit different, it was more structured. Before that, it was very free form because I own my own business and sort of make my own hours and I might be working at 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. or I might be working at midnight or I might work a regular day, but I did have a period there of a couple of years when I had merged my company briefly with another company that my schedule was regular. So it was like, I had to get up and actually go there. Just that life changer is stressful. But what I would find is that, oh, like come Friday afternoon, suddenly like, oh, geez, I didn't feel so anxious because I didn't have that anticipation of, oh, God, I have to get up and come here again tomorrow. It's not like I hated it. I didn't hate the work or the job. I liked the people I worked with. And it was something I chose to do was merging the companies together. We kind of de-merged later on and I'm happy for that. That was 10 years ago, more, more now. That was a long time, it was 2005 to 2007. So it was a while ago. But if you can look and say like, hey, when does my anxiety naturally wane for me? It was when I got away from the stress of anticipation. Like, oh, okay, nobody's gonna expect me to do anything tomorrow. So I'm good. Yeah, that would start to happen. You're welcome, Billy. That's very kind of you to say. So let's see, 28 minutes, who's around? We still have seven or eight people popping around. Does anybody else have any other questions that I miss anything? I can't tell how this is going in real time. I could try and fire it up on my phone and see what it looks like. Can't really tell, to be honest with you. Let's see, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna look. Yeah, that's too bad. I'll leave it up on my phone too, which is a little weird so I can see how far behind we are. Yeah, I guess if anybody has any other questions, anything that you want me to talk about specifically related to stress, I think the overall thing is, be aware of outside stressors, understand that sometimes we cannot stop them. We can choose to not stress over some things. So that was a good point. And I think trying to dissipate your stress is probably a better idea than running toward it. So we don't want to embrace the stress, we want to try and deal with it. And find ways to do that. I know that when we're in high anxiety states, it can be difficult. Like for me, I want to go to the gym, I want to lift heavy, I want to get that out physically, I want to hit the heavy bag. And you gotta heavy bag, man, I love that thing. I love the heavy bag. But if you're, some people, when you're dealing with anxiety all the time, it's hard to exercise. So that's when you got to turn to meditation, you got to turn to progressive muscle relaxation. You have to find things that you may enjoy doing. I know that's been a discussion in the group for a while. You know, that whole like, well, what do I want to do? That makes me feel good.  Maybe you're like to watch movies or listen to music or you guitar behind me.  So yeah, yeah, so I think finding ways to dissipate the stress is important. And it helps. So let's see, will this repost? Yes, it will Donna, it's gonna stay up on the page here. So it'll just, it'll be like a regular post. Oh, thanks Ben. Sherry, I'm sure you felt the same way, but it seems like Dr. Weeks are more successful while on it. No, Sherry, I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you. The things that Dr. Weeks talked about that I talk about, which I'm just kind of rehashing her stuff. I've said that all the time. They're not more successful in a lower anxiety state at all. I can tell you that I got to where I am with this using those exact techniques of exposure and facing and acceptance and continued graduated exposure at the worst panic that my panic was every bit as bad as anybody who's watching right now. And it still can be, you know, I can still have panic attacks there as bad as anything in this room in this chat now it is experiencing. So I don't, that's not true. That's not true. Though those things can work even at the highest levels of anxiety. In fact, that's the object of the game. You want to experience the worst anxiety that you could think of. And if you're doing it the right way, you're just gonna let it happen. It's gonna happen quickly and go away. And then you're gonna learn that even the worst anxiety isn't dangerous and you don't have to feel it, fear it. So yeah, Sherry, that's that. George, am I able to touch on health anxiety? Health anxiety is a tough, tough topic. Danny Monahan, Dan the man.  I had no idea, Dan, good to see you, dude. That is one of my oldest friends in the whole world. So let's see here. What do we think about long-term Benzo use? Health anxiety is a topic bigger than this chat, George. We'll talk about that one day and Billy and I have done, we did a video on health anxiety. So if you go to my website, that anxietyguy.com, you'll see somewhere on there. You might want to check that out. I don't want to kind of touch it on it today. We'll do another one of these about that. Terry, what do you think about long-term Benzo use? I will be flat out honest with you. I hate it. I hate it. I had a very, very bad experience pharmaceutical deal, trying to deal with anxiety pharmaceutical. And so I am biased. I was not a Benzo user. I did not use Benzo diazipines. For me, it was anti-depressant usage that caused me all kinds of problems and I regret ever having done it. So I do not think long-term Benzo use is a good thing at all because in reality, we do develop a tolerance to Benzo diazipines. And I know many, many, many people that are still taking the maximum dose of Xanax every single day that still have panic attacks and anxiety. It just stops working except you are now addicted to that physically dependent upon that.   So I'm not a big fan. Ben, yes, I can help on that if you like. You're right, Ben is correct. I did not touch the Benzos for a reason. So do I still with dizziness? Billy talked about shaky legs when you're dizzy.  So it's okay. It doesn't matter. And yes, dizziness is something that sometimes it's still an anxiety symptom for me, but that's okay.    So let's see. I know I was a little harsh on the Benzos. So Terry, I'm sorry about that. But Ben, maybe if you guys wanna bring it up in the group and have a discussion on that I'm good with that. Jessica says, how can you tell your body to stop triggering your mind or vice versa?  Well, first you have to not care about those sensations. So the way that's gonna work is when you don't and I know I've talked about this and it's hard for some people to understand. So you're not trying to stop those sensations and thoughts. You're trying to get to the point where you don't care if you have them. So if your heart is racing, who cares? Your heart is perfectly fine. If your hands are shaking they're still perfectly fine. If your legs are jelly, they're still carrying you around. So Jessica, you have to get to the point where you don't care about those sensations and you don't fear them. Then you will stop monitoring yourself for them. But when you're afraid of them and you wanna fight from them and run from them and try and stop them from happening then that is exactly what happens. You get in that feedback loop where you're always scanning. How do I feel now? How do I feel now? How do I feel now? And it makes the problem worse. So that's how you do it. You can't tell your body to stop triggering your mind. You have to actually tell your mind to not be afraid of your body. It's the other way. Ben is talking about a tapering process that's cool. Billy, yes, SSRI medications are horrible. Lexa Pro is a tough one. So Lexa is a tough one too, but it's a thing, it's a thing. Da-da-da-da acceptance, yes. Da-da-da-da U-T-T-A, very good. Let's see here. I got rubber legs in the mall and now I'm scared. And now I am scared of walls. Should I go back? Of course you should. That's bordering on what we call a simple phobia. So if you get bit by a dog, suddenly you are instantly afraid to pet dogs.  So yes, Terry, you got rubber legs in the mall and now you don't wanna go back to the mall. That's pretty much how our brains work.  But yes, you have to work on getting back to that mall. That's exposing yourself to your symptoms. Janet, it sounds so easy. It does sound so easy. Here's what I tell everybody. It is a super simple plan that I always talk about. It can just be really hard to execute because the key ingredient that most people don't wanna throw in the mix is you have to be courageous at first.  Like you gotta find that courage to do that. But once you find it and once you get that courage and start doing that, it gets easier as you go. So yes, it is an easy plan, but it's really hard to execute because of the courage thing. Miss your weekly videos on YouTube. Yeah, we're working on it. I'm gonna be doing one with Holly soon, hopefully. Billy and I have been talking again. We're actually working on some actually work projects together. Is there a real reason for SSRI, says Ben, not to disrespect anyone? Well, that's a whole topic too. So I'll tell you, I'll touch on that a little bit. This has nothing to do with stress, but we'll talk about it anyway. For me, it was nine years in the US, we call it Paxil. I believe, I don't know what you call it in the UK. You know, if we have people from the UK, actually they're sleeping now, so they're not here. Yes, Paxil. That was the antidepressant I took. The doctor, I was at the worst point and the doctor at the time was a general practitioner. He gave me the all like, well, if you had diabetes, you would take insulin, right? I believed it and I started taking the medication and sure enough, in two or three weeks, I stopped having panic attacks and my depression lifted. I thought it was the greatest thing ever, but in the end, it was not a good thing because it took away, for me, for me, the uses of SSRI took away everything. No emotion, I wasn't happy, I wasn't sad, I didn't laugh, I didn't cry, and grandparents passed away. My kids were born, felt nothing. It was bad, it put me in a bad place. I gained huge amounts of weight. I weighed 100 pounds more than I do today. It was not a good deal, it was not a good deal. And so they work for many people. Oh, look, I didn't have panic attacks, but even then, they stopped working after a while. I was always having to mess with the dose. Luckily, I didn't wind up in that situation where they're adding this medication on top of that. And I still only took the one, so I was lucky, I was really lucky. A lot of people go down that road and you wind up on four and five different medications because one stops working, you mess with the dose, let's try this one, let's add another one. It's a little rough, it can be difficult. And honestly, when was the last time that you heard, saw a commercial for anti-depressant that mentioned the term chemical imbalance? They don't say that anymore. Because even then, it was just a theory. We actually have no way to measure, and if you're still listening in Florida, we'll take this up later. We have no way to measure the level of neurotransmitters in a living human brain. You have to be dead to measure that. So that chemical imbalance theory is even acknowledged by the companies who make those medications as a theory. So it's only an assumed mechanism of action, we don't know. So anyway, sorry I've seen you're talking about it. It's been such a practice to not believe my thoughts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Sherry, my story posted to read. I don't know if you're in the, yes, you know what? It is, I'm gonna click around a little bit if you guys don't mind. I can put a link in here. We, Billy and I did a video together where, I'm sorry, I'm gonna look this up and I'm gonna post it, where he kind of interviewed me and I told my whole story. So I will try and find that and I'll throw it in here. Let's see here, it's on my YouTube channel. Where is it? It's called Yes, My Anxiety. It used to be as bad as, here it is. Copy the link. All right, ready? Here it comes.  And you are welcome. Donna, it is practice to not believe your thoughts. This stuff takes time. It takes time, it takes time. We're hamsticks. Okay, so Jessica, I've been on Zoloft for 16 plus years. Okay, Zoloft is, I'm gonna get out of my own chat. I don't need this. Sorry. It's a little weird. Let's see here, I've been on Zoloft for 16 years and I hate it. Same deal, low emotions. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Very difficult. How do I get off a tapering? Yes, it's funny cause there's a bunch of people I'm still friends with to this day that went through that process at the same time as me and we all met on this website called Paxil Progress which unfortunately no longer exists. It was run by just an exceptional woman from New Jersey whose son had gone through it and she started this website and there were thousands and thousands of people who went through that at the same time. It was such a good resource. Sometimes I wish it was still there. Yes, I did tape her but I tape her too fast cause my doctor at the time kinda gave me the spiel from the drug company which was like, oh, you can get off it in two weeks. I took longer than that cause I was a little bit more cautious. I think I took a month or two to do it. I should have taken much, much, much longer. So the tapering off of that is a thing and while the company that makes Zoloft and your doctor will probably tell you you like to start cutting your pills in half or take one, one day skip the next day, no. You should tape a really, really, really slow, right? So very tiny drops and you may feel those or you may not. I was one of those, unfortunately, one of those people that felt really bad side effects when I started lowering my dose and got off the medication and it's just a long time to get back to sort of normal and that natural state but as much as I am biased that I hate those companies and I hate those medications, I will admit that I am in the minority. Best estimates, maybe 30 to 40% of people deal with this protracted, what the drug company will call discontinuation syndrome but I know other people who've been on those drugs for a long time that taper over the course of a few weeks or a month and they don't have a problem. But Jessica, one thing I will say is if you do that and you start to find more anxiety, more depression, your symptoms ratchet up and get magnified, more than likely we're usually told we'll see that's the original problem. You have to be on this. Your chemical imbalance is still there. That's not always true. So when you remove the drug, you do start to run into issues where you have neurotransmitter receptors that have to up-regulate and yeah, your brain chemistry gets thrown into a bit of a disarray. So it's very common to struggle more as you're tapering and when you first get off the drug till you get back to that normal spot. Don't I still have my OG videos? Yeah, OG original gangsta. I do have some of those old school videos. Some day I will go through them and post them up there. Some of the old exposures. That's from Ben and I first met back in probably 2008, 2009. So let's see what else we have going on here. Do I miss any other comments? I don't think I missed anything. I'll try and find those. You know what? Let me do the health anxiety one too while I'm on the site. Or I could ask, let's see. I'm gonna post the link to the health anxiety video too. George, are you still here? I will try and grab that for you real quick. Where is it? No comfortable way. We talked about health anxiety, health anxiety. I can't find it, but it's up there somewhere. It's up there somewhere. Health anxiety. I'll try and find it and I'll post it. So I don't know, any other questions? Are there certain foods that trigger panic? Okay, let's see here. That's a reasonable question. Missy asks, are there certain foods that trigger panic? I'm gonna answer that by saying that's the wrong question. So the reason why I say that's the wrong question is not because I'm trying to be a smart ass, but hear me out on this. When you ask if there are certain foods that trigger panic, what you're saying is, I don't wanna eat anything that will make me feel that way. Which is fine, because nobody wants to have panic. I get that. But I'll relay my own experience. When I was in some of my worst times, one night we had Chinese food for dinner. Just what I would be thinking about it. And we ate and within 20 or 30 minutes, I had this raging panic attack and I convinced myself that there was something in the Chinese food that caused it. And so I was afraid to eat it for a really long time. And in the end, Chinese food was not the cause of my panic at all. But the biggest problem was they started to avoid certain things because I was afraid of the anxiety. So yeah, I mean, you can certainly like, caffeine is gonna, certainly there are food, caffeine will raise your heart rate. That's not it. Everybody knows this. But in terms of food that trigger panic, I would say you stay away from stimulants, don't drink a lot of coffee and tea or eat chocolate or drink cola, things that stay away from caffeine. But in the same vein, having a soda that raises your heart rate could be used as intercepted exposure. So have I heard of Charles Linden? Hold that thought. I'm gonna talk about Charles Linden in a second and then I'll probably get sued because that's what he does. Let's see here. So anyway, Missy, that's my answer to that question. I don't know of foods that specifically trigger panic, but don't harp on that. Like you got to work on not being afraid of the panic and then you won't care what you eat. Doesn't matter. That's my fear. I did taper down my anxiety. Yeah, Jessica, that happens, man. It's really, it's tough and it can make you feel so frustrated because you don't want to be on the meds. I didn't want to be on them anymore. That was a tough place for me to be. But then when you try to get off them and you feel like you're health hostage, I understand that. But yes, really small.  And I literally know people that took years.  That was maybe a little extreme. They might not have need to do that, but yeah, go super slow and you'll be okay. You'll get through it. Tomato-based foods, acid, which can at risk as Ray. Hey, Ray. Yep, okay. So, or spicy food. So, Ray's talking about different types of food.  I don't say it can be misconstrued as anxiety, but if that bothers you, if that sensation bothers you, then yes, that could be an issue. So, if you're afraid of that feeling, if you have reflux or you get heartburn, I know there are certain foods that will give me heartburn. Like I'm a big fan, like I live in bagel country. I'm on my island. We're right in the New York metro area. We have awesome bagels here. I love bagels. Buy you a plain bagel, but don't put anything on it, which I love to do. I try not to because I don't need to gain weight, but yeah, for you to plain bagel, I'm gonna get heartburn. But if you're afraid of that sensation, because you worry that, oh, what if it's not heartburn? What if I have a heart attack? Then sure, but like you said, you can avoid all those foods if you want, but sooner or later, you really have to not be afraid of what your body is doing.  But it doesn't mean you want it until I get it. He's a fraud terrier. No, you know what, Ben? So we're talking about Charles Linden here. Maybe I'm not gonna talk about Charles. You know what? I hate to do that. I hate to do that. Look, here's what I know about Charles Linden. I'll tell you this about Charles Linden. First of all, I'm gonna tell you this about anybody who's online talking about anxiety, especially people who are selling things, right? I talk all the time about Claire Weeks. That's what I base all of my stuff on. She is the gold standard by which everything else, in my opinion, is measured. And most programs that are good, and this includes Dare. Somebody mentioned Dare in the comments. I know there's a problem with Dare. That seems pretty good. Most of the best programs that you can spend your money on are really just rehashing what she said, right? So, and that's fine. That's totally fine. And I think that Charles Linden's method, I think, is sort of based on that, but it's kind of secretive. You cannot find it. They protect it really, and it's his right. He wrote the program, so it's his right to protect that. I understand. It's his business. It's hard to find unless you pay all the money. So it's hard to find the program unless you pay all the money. There's zealous about protecting their intellectual property, which again, it's their right to do that. As a business, I get it. But here's what I don't like about it. It's such a business. If you Google Charles Linden and look at whatever he's called the Linden method, you will find more people that are affiliates who are trying to get you to buy it through them than people who really talk genuinely about how the program worked for them. And they also are very aggressive in terms of somebody who has a negative opinion, at least in the UK where they're based, there's a really good chance that somebody's gonna knock on your door and wanna sue you. So, yeah. I'll tell you that there are better places to spend your money than the Linden method. Jessica, my doctor hates the newly pregnant, congratulations, and my doctor wants me up by nine months. Yep, yep. That's a good thing. Nine months is a long time, you can do that. Billy's tapering, it can be done really slow, that's cool, razor blades, yep, you can do that too. I was cutting my pills. So what I was doing for packs, all they were scored, so I was able to cut them in half. And then I used a pill cutter to cut them in quarters. So my drops were enormous, they're way bigger than they should have been, to be honest with you. Laurie, oh, thank you for compassionate, you're very welcome, dealing with reflux now, yeah.  Charles, help me a lot, all right? So for Ray, Charles, help you, that's fine, I have no problem with that. Is it the higher level of adrenaline that's causing the high sensitivity level? So that's just a question for Sherry. Adrenaline doesn't cause sensitivity, adrenaline happens when you're sensitive. So adrenaline is the chemical in your bloodstream that causes that rapid heart rate and the jelly legs and the fast breathing and the visual disturbances. So adrenaline is causing the sensations that you don't like. And no, adrenaline is not the cause of the sensitivity. What causes the sensitivity, to be completely honest with you, I mean, we are biochemical beings in the end, so I'm sure there's something about that. But in the end, in my view of this, obviously if you followed me for any amount of time, I am obviously a behaviorist, so I make no doubt about that. I don't know how to describe a lot of physiological cures or things to this. I don't really care so much about the chemistry because in my opinion, we can't manipulate it anyway. So we can't micromanage our hormones and our brain chemistry. So to me, I take a behavioral approach to this. So what causes the high level of sensitivity is just being on guard all the time for how you feel. That's why you're sensitive because you're afraid of those feelings. Claire is gold, yep. Claire listens to Claire Weeks, oh yo. You know what I like about Claire Weeks too, it sounds like you're listening to your grandma. I don't know, she just has that way.  She actually passed many years ago. I've had contact with her nieces who manage her estate and all the books and stuff. Just good people. They're good people. They want to help people. And that's why I like that her stuff is also pretty cheap. Like her books, her audio books, you buy hope and help for your nerves. You're gonna find on Amazon here in the US for under $10, like six or eight bucks. Like it's so cheap and it's incredibly good advice. So Ray says that Charles helped him, Ray and Charles Lynn helped you with the knowledge knowing that no one was alone and no one has ever died from some disease. And that it's very true so that it sounds like he is very heavily based on like the Claire Weeks thing. She wrote what she wrote in the 50s, the 1950s and 60s. So I can say Lyndon is a scam. Okay. The Lyndon method is, I can be curious to the Lyndon method. I don't know it specifically, but it sounds like Ray just said in the comments is it's probably heavily based on the Claire Weeks stuff that since no one has ever died, like the key here is that those sensations are not gonna kill you or really hurt you. So you have to learn to not fear them. So that's that. Dare is very weak. Yup. I'm sure that it probably, like I said, she's a lot of people are basing their stuff on her. You don't need anything but your own mind by changing your thoughts and accepting that's true. Billy, do you have a fear of flying? I heard, Terry, maybe you were the one who mentioned fear of flying. I used to be terrified to fly. So I, you know, I'm dealing with this anxiety and panic stuff and at the same time I was terrified to get on an airplane.  So I'll tell you how I got past quickly, the fear of flying, this is nothing to be stressed, but okay, how I got past that. First of all, I've dealt with my anxiety. So I'm not afraid of that. It used to be, honestly, the thought of even going as far as the airport. You know, I live on Long Island. It takes me an hour to get to any of the big, either JFK or LaGuardia and the thought of even going an hour away from home to an airport when it set me off. So much as getting on a plane. But now, you know, if I get on a plane and I have a panic attack on the plane, I don't care. I don't want to, but oh well, it'll be over in 15 minutes. I'll go on about my day. So how I got over my fear of flying was first to not care if I panic and deal with the anxiety stuff. I still had a fear of flying. And actually I used some of the same methods that I used to deal with my anxiety. So first of all, I learned what every single noise and I knew exactly what to expect the internet rules because of that.  So I knew what the noises were. You know, it helps me a lot on most of the flights now. There's a screen that shows me where the plane is, what's going on, what our altitude is. So I'm like already expecting like, oh, we're gonna start to descend now or we're not even at our cruising altitude. We're gonna keep climbing and turning. So just knowing ahead of time helped me and understanding that like I may still have a jolt of fear but if I don't brace against it, it'll go away. So that helped me with my fear of flying. It helps when I hear advice from other people that have suffered with true panic attacks. And they're like, yeah, I was, Missy, I was completely housebound or close to it. I won't say I was completely housebound but I was very close to that.  Lori, can you go through a scenario where you went full panic? How did you face, accept and float? Okay, well Ben sort of answered that a little bit here. Picture yourself in a store having a panic attack and you say to yourself, hey, what's up panic? Welcome to the store, let's go shopping together. Lori, the answer to your question there, can I go through a scenario where I face, like today I was, earlier in the video, I was saying that I actually had a panic attack today. And next time it happens, no matter where I am, I will video that for you guys. But I know people have sat with people who are in my life and real life have actually sat with me and watched me go through panic attacks and had no idea, right? So I know people who have been in a room with me and I will actually stop and say, right, I'm having a swing and panic attack right now. And invariably the people in the room will say like, really, they have no idea. So how do you face and accept? You just do, there's no technique for accepting it. It's more of a mindset than a technique, which is one of the greatest comments I've heard in a really long time. There's no technique, it's just, the only technique I can tell you is when it hits you, when it hits me, all I complete, I relax every muscle in my body, I just go completely limp, I try and maintain a neutral kind of upright posture. I don't brace, I don't fight, I don't fidget, I stay still and I just work on my breathing and when thoughts come in my head, they come in my head, I let them go. So I'm trying to empty my head, empty. I'm not arguing with myself over whether or not I'm having a heart attack, by the way. So what I'm trying to do is keep my brain, my mind calm and empty, I'm not having an inner dialogue with my thoughts and I'm just completely relaxing my body and you just let that wave of adrenaline happen, the fear comes, the racing heart comes, the heavy breathing comes, the jelly legs come, the sweating comes, all those things come, but if you don't do anything with them, what I tell people all the time is you can, when you have a panic attack, you can either do something or you can do nothing. The better thing is to do nothing because either way you're gonna get through the other side, either way at some point that panic attack will be over but if you do nothing, it will be a little faster than doing something. So my advice to you in terms of accepting is literally do nothing. And I mean nothing in the truest sense of the word, no movement, no tensing, no nothing. No arguing with yourself in your head, no snapping a rubber band, no coloring, no calling your husband, nothing. And I know that sounds crazy, but trust me, that will work. So I was driving to my office today in a full blown panic attack. I mean, I could have pulled over, it was dangerous but I drove 15 minutes to my office with panic running right through me and sure enough, I don't know, before I even got there. 10, 12 minutes into it, whatever, it's over. So there you go. So Ben's talking about it too. I've accepted it as a friend and self-talking. That's that mindset you have to get to. Sherry uses headphones and meditation apps on a plane. That's cool. And Don at right, no one ever knows it'd be either, right? How about getting over leaving my safe zone? I pushed myself to do it over and over but it still causes, okay, so I see no pleasure in it. Okay, you're obviously doing something wrong. That's a super good question too. I'll keep going, what the hell? It's 11 o'clock, you guys want to keep talking, I'll keep talking, I'm good with that. We've been at this moment over almost an hour. So let's see here, leaving your safe zone. So when you say you're pushing yourself, that's always an indicator. The language could be an indicator that maybe you are doing the wrong. It's not about necessarily pushing yourself, right? It's not a, if you're getting, if you're going outside your safe zone, and white knuckling through it, that's just enduring it.  So I'm going to say that you're not really relaxing into the anxiety, it's about doing the opposite of what you think you want to do. So when you want to fight it and you want to run, do the opposite. When you want to tense your body and brace and fight and try and somehow to distract you, do the opposite. So I think forget your safe zone right now, stay in it, and my advice would be, you have to work on the skill of truly letting that happen. So if you can have anxiety in your dining room, Jessica, then work on having anxiety in your dining room. You don't necessarily have to work on it, 100 miles from your house. It doesn't matter where you are, it matters what you're doing. So work first on truly just relaxing into the anxiety. And I try and use the analogy of bending in the wind, like a willow tree.  So you just go soft into it as opposed to fighting against it. And work on doing that while you're in your safe zone. And then you'll find it easier than, when you've mastered those skills, you'll find that you can push a little bit easier. But when you do go outside where there's a comfortable area for you, you will experience anxiety. That's supposed to happen.  That's the point of the exposure. Success isn't that you didn't feel anxiety, success is that you felt the anxiety, but you relaxed into it and it was over in a few minutes and you stayed in that larger zone for 10, 15 minutes and then calmly went back home. That's success. So success is it's not that you don't have anxiety, success is how you deal with the anxiety that you have. Best breathing exercise, super easy. Chest should move and breathing it through your nose. Whatever the count is for me, it's a count in five. And my stomach is what's expanding, not my chest. You notice my shoulders and my chest don't move and then it's a quick hold. So in for five, out for seven through the mouth. Slow, slow. What you really care about is the exhale longer than the inhale.   That's those are hyperventilation symptoms. So the breathing is the exhale, inhale through the nose, breathe into the belly, not the chest and the shoulders and the exhale out through the mouth longer than the inhale. Doesn't really count. Laurie, this isn't a mental disorder, it's a learned behavior. Yes, yes, Laurie, that is exactly what this is. I hate when people call this a disease because it is not, it is not. And again, remember, I'm a behaviorist, so I'm gonna approach it from that standpoint. It is a learned behavior. Your brain has just gotten into some bad habits, right? These are phobias, right? These are phobias. Lisa, what's up, Lisa? Lisa, my friend, the photographer, she's, who needs photography, go to her by the way. Lisa, I'm lurking, isn't that when out of you see her comment there or whatever, but yeah, Lisa has gone, nice to see you here. So it's not a disease, it's not a, it's what we call a panic disorder. It's classified as a disorder. It's a cognitive issue. It's not a disease, you're not, there's no break with reality here. Like what happened to the person, I forget who was saying, Terry, I think, right? I said, yeah, you had jelly legs when you went to the mall and now you're afraid to go to the mall. That's what happens. So what's happening in this situation is you are learning to be afraid of more and more things because they are uncomfortable and we don't wanna be uncomfortable. But you can unlearn those things by relaxing into them and unmasking the fear. The fear is real, the danger is not. So you just have to learn to let the fear be there because when you will learn through experience, that's how we unwire that bad habit that you don't have to be afraid. Who just asked me, you basically conquered the anxiety, why do you still have panic attacks? I don't know, I don't care. I don't, I mean, it's rare that I have a panic attack. I would tell you that the panic attack I had today was almost purely physical. It's just, you know, I really, I've incredibly sleep deprived the last, especially the last month, I don't sleep a lot as it is, I'm having sleep issues and just stress upon stress upon stress and I didn't wanna shovel snow and that was it. That was definitely, it was a physical thing for me today. But why do I still have panic attacks? I don't know, but I'm a care. That's the point. But yes, I feel like I have conquered my anxiety. I still feel anxiety, but I just don't care that I feel it and it goes away. You're able to deal with it better. Yeah, it doesn't leave forever. For me, it hasn't left forever. I mean, obviously I have way less anxiety than I used to. Way, way, way, way, way less anxiety, right? I used to be 24 seven, like worried about how I felt, ratchet it up, always ready for like a panic attack. No, I don't have that anymore, but I can still experience anxiety. I just, it's just not a life changer. We need to desensitize and retrain our brains. That is completely correct. Completely correct. Yes, relax into it, Laurie. Yes, you do the opposite of what you think you're gonna do. The fear is real, the dangers. And I have said that a million times, that is true. And so for the people in your lives that are around you that see you dealing with these things, and we're over an hour now, probably gonna wrap it up pretty quickly, but the people in your life that see you dealing with these things that don't understand, I hear people say all the time, well, nobody understands. Nobody understands, we need more awareness. Well, screw that, you don't need, we don't need more awareness. The reason why they don't understand is that they, they don't see the danger, cause there is none. So think about it that way. So when you're in that high anxiety state and you see your husband or your wife or even your kids, when I was at my worst, my kids were little, I mean little, like five and seven years old, they were role models for me, my kids were, because they just walked around normally, right? They, I would be in a complete and utter like near meltdown and they didn't see the danger. Like they didn't, they knew there was no danger. So that's the thing, like use the people around you to reinforce that for you. Like they know you're, they don't understand why you're panicking because they know you're in no actual danger. Just you don't know it yet. You have to learn that. We only learned it with two ways we can learn. We can learn rationally by reading or what's the best way to say this? You have to, we have a couple of ways to learn. We could read, we could watch other people model tasks or behaviors that we're trying to learn. But the only true way that we actually learn and adopt the behavior is experientially. We have to actually do it, but use the people around you to demonstrate that you're really, there is no danger. They know you're in no danger, but the fear is real. The fear is absolutely real, but the danger isn't. So you have to face the fear to learn that the danger isn't there. Take care, Ben. Thanks for it, thanks for hanging in. Yes, Donna says lots of people have panic attacks and don't have a disorder. That's exactly why. They just never get to the point where they fear the symptoms. And that's why I say it's a learned thing, right? We're in the same boat. Thanks so much. You're welcome, right? You're welcome. So, yep. Thank you so much. Well, you guys are welcome. I enjoy doing it, so it's no big deal. Hopefully it helped out. All right, so we're over an hour. I am gonna wrap it up. I appreciate you guys popping by. This will stay on, so I'll just leave it up on the page. I'm gonna ask two favors though, and there's one favor. If you haven't subscribed to my YouTube channel, do it. It's youtube.com, that's that anxiety guy. It helps, there's some YouTube algorithms that are changing and yeah, so I'm just gonna ask you to do that. But otherwise, I appreciate you guys coming by and if you're not in the discussion group or doing most of you are, you get in there. You're gonna wanna be in there. And yeah, it's gonna be good. So this is my third high note. I know it can be, it absolutely can be beat. And you guys are all, you can all do this. I'm nothing special, I'm just some goofball from New York. So if I did it, you guys are gonna be able to do it too, right? So you're welcome, you're welcome, Janet. And I, Laurie, I will do more. I'll do it as my schedule allows. It's a little bit difficult because I'm running businesses and stuff, but all right, folks, have a good night, wherever you happen to be. I'll see you next time.


How's it going everybody? This recap here is brought to you by Jaspies on Fanatics Live Seven Nights a Week. Here's a recap video of 2023 Top Scrone Breakers Light, 4-Box Picker Team Number 6 on a Sunday. Big thanks everybody there for getting on the action. Ooh, we've got a sponsor Sunday. I have to make room for an ad read. Alright, there's Louis Ortiz, Youthquake, got an O'Neill Cruise Youthquake to 25, Michael Grove Youthquake Gold to 50, Michael Harris to 250, Parazza to 50. The Pujols Legends autograph is really sharp. That was nice. Stowers, Riley Green, Blue Ray Wave to 150, Colas, Stefanik, Bleday, Bay, Waters, a lot of great stuff there. Thanks for watching, thanks for joining. I'm Joe. I'll see you in the next Fanatics Live Break next time. Bye-bye.


This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by it's listeners that includes Vince Power, Rodrigo Smith Zapata, John and Becky Johnston, you and our brand new patrons, Fnord Man. I see the Fnord's Fnord Man and Royce, welcome to DTNS. On this episode of DTNS, Amazon tries to rescue its grocery business. Scott weighs in on Meta's open source music generator and AI that can help detect breast cancer. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, August the 2nd. There's been only two days in 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Taco Wednesday, I'm Sarah Lane. From the Beehive State, I'm Scott Johnson. I have no food reference, so I'm just a shows producer, Roger Chang. Taco Wednesday is an innovation that I embrace. Yeah, I say there are no rules here. Why limit it to just Tuesdays? That's right. You can also trademark that one because nobody has it. I know. It's Taco Wednesday? Okay, Sarah can have it. All right, let's start with the quick kits. X or X Twitter, as some people insist on calling it, will now let users who pay for blue checkmarks hide their checkmarks. A support article for X Blue explains that paid subscribers can choose to conceal the fact that they pay to be verified, but the checks may still appear in some places and various features might not be available if your checkmark is hidden. In more X Twitter news, Tweetdeck has been renamed to X Pro and is rolling out its new branding now. Some of it is already live at tweet.twitter.com. Tweetdeck, rather. X Pro is still available to anyone, but X announced on July 3rd. X Pro will soon only be available to paid subscribers. I will not be reloading my Tweetdeck tab as long as I can hold out. Xbox users will soon be able to stream gameplay to Discord. So video, not just audio, so their friends can watch them get killed. Xbox insiders in the alpha skip ahead and alpha rings of testing can try it out right now. You got to connect your Discord account and then look forward in the parties and chats section of the dashboard. It's an option called stream your game. Streams are only viewable in Discord on other platforms, though. You can stream from the Xbox. You can't watch it in the Xbox. It's not yet available on the basic version of Discord that is on the Xbox. The government of Kenya has ordered Sam Altman's Worldcoin to stop signing up new users.  Kenya's ministry of the interior is launched an investigation into the security and privacy of the company. Worldcoin's privacy policy says iris data is not stored unless the user requests it. Microsoft rolled out spatial audio for its team's desktop app on both Windows and macOS after several months of testing the feature, which creates an experience where voices of everyone on a call sound like they're in distinct positions based on where they are on the screen. Microsoft does note that you're going to need a stereo capable device. It's not going to work on mono, so you'll need some wired headsets or stereo capable laptops. Bluetooth devices are not currently supported, but the company says next generation L.E. audio, Bluetooth L.E. audio that's coming with stereo enabled Bluetooth devices will support it. Man, I mean, I don't know that I would care to do that. Well, anyway, some people have more meetings than I do. Canon unveiled the MS 500, a long range, very long range, non infrared camera capable of capturing subjects and color, even in complete darkness, even from several miles away. The camera costs $25,000. And if you say, well, that sounds pretty steep, it is. Canon says this is designed for commercial monitoring in high security levels like seaports, public infrastructure facilities and national borders. And ghost hunting. All right. Meta released a tool for AI music generation called audio craft. This is under an MIT open source license. So it's this one's got a real open source license. Previously, they released some AI stuff under a license that excluded companies bigger than 700 million users. It was their own weird thing. Not everybody considered it an open source license. This one's just your standard MIT open source license. It's got three models, music gen, which turns your text into music that was trained on 20,000 hours of music owned or licensed by meta audio gen, which turns your written prompts into sound effects, barking dogs, sirens, et cetera. That was trained on public sound effects. So they're being very transparent about what they train this stuff on. And then and codec is the third part. And that's just a decoder that promises to deliver fewer artifacts when you manipulate audio. Now, Scott, I know that you are both attracted and repelled by these kinds of things. How do you feel about this one? Oh, as usual, I am both at the same time, really, because when these new tools come out, I get really nervous about what they're doing. And I get really excited. I'm more excited about this than not, though. In fact, there's been so much spotlight on image generation, video generation and text generation, or predictive text generation, I should say, that I feel like audio has been a little bit left out. And that's not to say that there aren't services like 11 labs and a few other places that do cool audio stuff. But for music, all we've seen up to this point is people saying, Hey, I can make SpongeBob sing a popular Katy Perry song. Isn't that funny? I would much rather start to see rubber meet the road on what I can use this for. And already I know that I will find this useful for podcast stuff. Because there's a lot of times where I'm like, I have a new segment, we're only going to run it twice this month. And then we're done with it forever. I'd like it to be a little jaunty, maybe a little music and maybe a little sound effect to it. I got to go find it or pay for it or have someone make it or hope that what I've got is, you know, it truly out of copy. I like it. Sift through dozens of tracks going like, well, it's kind of it, but that's not exactly. Yeah, exactly. So if they if I if I'm in the need for, I don't know, an elongated track that makes it sound like I'm at the beach and it's the summer, not that I'm prompting Tom with this at all. But if I wanted that, would you like a pop dance track with catchy melodies, tropical percussions and upbeat rhythms perfect for the beach? That sounds like the prompt. Because this is that, according to meta, this is the example they posted on their blog. Yeah, see, it's a nice jaunty. It's what we asked for when you put that prompt in there. It does sound very generated. Yes, it sounds like a music bed, right? Yeah. I would believe this was made by humans. Yeah, I would say it's like, you know, all digital music somewhere started with a human being like, here's what I want. But no, I'm just saying it sounds, it I wouldn't immediately go, oh, that was generated by a machine model. Right. Of course. Yeah, yeah. Now, when you, when you mentioned the scenario of like, yeah, I might need something for a podcast and, you know, I just, it might not be a whole thing where, yeah, I'm going back and forth between drafts with, you know, a composer type thing, you know, of course, people who make music, and people make music for our show too, you know, or like, oh man, but like, I could do it real quick. That sort of thing. I feel like these can work in conjunction. Sometimes it's, you're just, you're needing some sort of a, I don't even want to call it a one off because that's selling meta short here too. Sure. It just, it seems like they can both work for different scenarios. Yeah, I feel like there's an immediacy that attracts me to it. And I know that some people are going to say, Scott, the stuff you complain about with art generation, part of the problem is immediacy and you're skipping over the talent of qualified artists. That's probably true here. But given what I do, the idea of like, oh, 10 minutes before the show, I forgot, I need a stinger. It's only three seconds long, but I need a really good stinger for them for the mood I'm trying to create with this stinger. And if I could, you know, have a three second stinger generated by this software and maybe go in and tweak it a little bit because I want to do a little after thing or put a little voice in it or something or something, I want to add to it after bam, 10 minutes later, I've got my stinger. It's kind of compelling, you know, but again, it does. So it shows us really practical use case, but it also because I'm not a musician, it's easy for me to say, oh, well, this is easy. How many people are saying that about artists and then those are the ones I get frustrated on. So I'm trying to have the right, I'm trying to keep my mind open to how many people this possibly affects or even upsets. There are so many times that you use a piece of music that you wouldn't have used otherwise because it's available or you don't use music or you use music and then you hear it on a motorcycle dealer commercial later, which is a true thing that actually happened. So this is going to not replace things. This is going to make music available where there was no music choice before. So you have to remember that side of it too. I did want to play the sound effects because that's another one where it's like sometimes you're like, I need a sound effect. I know exactly what I need, but where can I find it? Sounds like an actual person whistling to me. Like it's pretty impressive. It's a little hard to hear, but I get, I get what you're doing. It's a whistle song. Sure. Finding this is whistling with wind blowing was the prompt. No, that sounds and one thing one would think you could go and you like all of these things you tweaked your tweak your inputs and said, I'd like an octave higher. I'd like it to sort of sound like this thing, but not exactly as I don't want to mess with copyright. Like you'd have a lot of fiddling you could do. And in this case, all you're doing is replacing a human who would whistle for you at the beach and then instead now you got the beach and the whistler and no one's the wiser. I don't know. I feel like we've given short trip to the fact that meta open source this right. This meta is playing catch up here. And I think that we talked about to the last time they released something publicly, but they are they are not holding it behind a paywall for worries of responsibility. They're saying we trained it on just stuff we have licensed. It's only going to be western oriented music because of that. We're making it open source so that you can train it on music. You have the rights to everyone take this and use it. The meta is not charging for this. That's the other thing. So people who make music can also use this to assist them in their making of music as well. I would love to know what is licensed by meta. I mean, some of it would just be stuff we don't understand. I think what this means is they took music they already owned and then they said that's not enough and they went to probably just a music library and said we would like to pay to license this. It's not music they have licensed for other purposes. Anyway, that's my guess. Well, early results from an ongoing Swedish trial of more than 80,000 women undergoing mammograms show that AI is able to accurately detect 20% more breast cancers from mammograms than traditional screening by radiologists. The study is the first randomized control trial to use AI as a tool in breast cancer screening. Promising results and they were published in the journal Lancet Oncology and noted that using AI supported analysis of mammograms in conjunction with at least one human radiologist was as accurate as two radiologists without AI support, which led to 20% more cancers being detected because you don't need two radiologists at once. This also reduced the workload for radiologists in general who spent 44% less time reading mammograms. Here's how things worked. Half the participants had two radiologists look at their mammograms without AI. The other half of the participants had their mammograms analyzed by AI and a radiographer. In cases where AI generated the highest risk score, two radiologists then assessed that screening again. Lead author of the study, Kristina Long from Sweden's Lund University says the results, quote, are not enough on their own to confirm that AI is ready to be implemented in mammography screening. And the trial needs further results to indicate whether using AI reduces the number of cancers detected between screenings and is worth rolling out more broadly. Another concern is false positives over detecting what ends up being a harmless lesion. If you're curious, the AI that they used is a deep learning model. It's not a large language model. It's a deep learning model from ScreenPoint Medical called Transpara version 1.7.0. Now, Sarah, unfortunately, you know more about this than the rest of us do. What do you think of this? I'm pretty excited. I would have loved for this to be something that was available to me about two years ago.  Women do it all the time. They said, you're good. And then it turned out that I went back because I didn't feel like I was good. And I did have breast cancer. And at that point, mammograms are sort of that's sort of the first line of defense.  You got biopsies and ultrasounds and MRIs and surgery.  But I am an example of somebody who had a mammogram, did all the right things, and it went undetected. So I'm not saying that a radiologist in my case did anything wrong, but this stuff happens. So the fact that AI is at least in, you know, early trials here, proving to be a really great asset for a team that, you know, their job is to make sure that they don't miss things like this. I am all for it. And I know false positives are a thing, but trust me, human doctors, they will, they will poke and project all the time when there is a concern for, for exactly the same sort of thing. So it's not like a computer is going to be the first to, to make things difficult on somebody who didn't need surgery. Yeah, you want, you want to reduce false positives because the poking and prodding can lead to secondary infections and other risks. So you don't want to do it unless you're really sure you have to do it. But that's what this study is about. And this isn't even the first study to, to make progress in this area. This is another study. We've, we've covered versions of this before that is saying, it looks like this increases accuracy. I think that's what you want the most, right Sarah? Yes, that is very much what you want the most.  There's something going on here. There wasn't a ton of time, but there was some time. You know, I don't know how things had progressed in those, let's say two months before I, you know, ended up saying, let's take another look here.  Unfortunately, I know about that too. So the, the fact that radiologists, and I don't know if anyone besides one radiologist looked at my mammogram, you know, I don't, I wasn't in the back room for that. And I didn't ask, I don't know that they would have had to tell me anyway, but anything that will leave the expert humans to do the expert things and not get bogged down by, you know, spending too much time looking at mammograms, not that they're not, you know, they're still the last line of defense here in this study as well. But to do what they do and to, you know, help patients that much more, I'm just, this is one of those examples where I can't find a lot of bad reasons for this to be happening. I think this is, this is a great example of medical advancement. Yeah. And especially because this is peer-reviewed research, it's, it's one of a series of studies. It's the most recent of a series of studies looking at this saying, all right, let's look at it this way. Let's look at it this way. And even this one is not the one where they're saying we're done. Now everybody can use it. I think that's incredibly important. I also think it's incredibly important to state that we're very happy, Sarah, that you are here with us today to share this with you. And we're very sorry that you had to go through all that, but thank you for, for taking the time to, to share that insight with us and everybody. Well, of course, you know, with any luck, this will all be a distant memory. Yep. Yep. Fingers crossed. All right, folks, if you have feedback about anything that gets brought up on the show, you can get in touch with us all kinds of ways on X and Mastodon. We are DTNS Show, DTNS SHOW, Mastodon. That's at MSTDN.Social on TikTok. We're Daily Tech News Show on Instagram and Threads. We are at DTNS PIX. That's DTNS P-I-X. If you're an Amazon Prime member, you can get groceries from Amazon Fresh or Whole Foods delivered. And depending on your location, you might have a few other options here in LA. I have Bristol Farms, Ride Aid, and Mission Wine and Spirits that Amazon will deliver as well. Amazon grocery delivery was booming during the lockdowns, but a Washington Post story describes it as meeting a crisis point with one source calling this a make or break year for Amazon groceries. Bloomberg reports on some of the things that Amazon plans to do to make instead of break this year. Yeah. So in a dozen US cities, you'll be able to order grocery delivery from Amazon Fresh without needing a Prime subscription. You'll just pay more for the delivery fee, but you don't have to pay for Prime. Amazon says it hopes to offer the program nationwide by the end of the year and as well make Whole Foods deliveries available to non-Prime members. For Prime members, Bloomberg reports that Amazon is working on letting customers have a unified cart. So for example, you could order some items from Whole Foods and Amazon Fresh and Bristol Farms, and that's all one order instead of having to place orders separately depending on where you're getting the stuff from. Now, Tom, you recently posted more than a couple threads about being disappointed with Amazon Fresh. So what was all that about and does this change your mind? Yeah. So I actually ended up relying on Amazon Fresh. I did some Ralph's pickups, I did some Instacard, and I ended up relying on Amazon Fresh through lockdowns to bring me a lot of my groceries. At the time, the minimum for free delivery was $35, not $150 like it is now, so it was a little easier to swallow. And it did very well over the course of the lockdown. However, the last three times I've ordered Amazon Fresh, it has been bad is how I would use that word to describe it. Substituting things that weren't really the right substitution, like grapefruits instead of oranges, telling me that they were out of water, like not even offering me like, well, we don't have this gallon of water. Do you want bottles of water? Just like, no, we don't have any water anymore. I'm like, that can't be true. I've been in the North Hollywood, Amazon Fresh, there's got to be water in there somewhere. And then being late, just being, I've got a window between 9pm and 11pm and not showing up until midnight in a couple of cases. So I've been looking at it and wondering like, well, is it just the North Hollywood manager changed and is not writing the ship very well? Is it something more systemic with Amazon? So when I saw that Washington Post article, I was interested in that because it could explain that they're in a transition phase and they're letting a lot of things slip. There was a lot of anecdotes in that Washington Post story of employees saying, yeah, they laid off a bunch of people and now nobody's in charge and the things are expired because the person whose job it was to go through and check expiration dates isn't here. They seem to have laid off a lot of middle managers which could explain, you know, why there's some organizational issues. It would be good for them to write the ship because it was a good service. It's a little expensive for less quality service now. I do love the idea of unified. I sometimes have to choose like, well, actually I want a couple of things from Whole Foods. So I'll give up on a couple of these other items that they don't have at Whole Foods and vice versa. They have some Whole Foods stuff available through Amazon Fresh. A lot of the 365, like their generic in-house brand. But yeah, I think there's a lot for them to do to make this work better. So I'm encouraged to hear they're doing it. Scott, where are you in grocery delivery? Do you use Amazon Fresh? So we never did. We kind of thought during the pandemic that would be what we'd do, but we ended up using Instacart. And since then it has been so seamless and never needs intervention that we just kind of stuck with them. I have a feeling that's going on with a lot of people that kind of established themselves as the go-to name and brand. A little bit like, I don't know, DoorDash kind of became the Kleenex delivery to the door. And it felt that way for them. And they kept adding more and more outlets too. That was impressive to me. Yeah, we kept thinking, oh, we're not going to be able to get this. And then we'd find out, oh no, they totally can do that. And so we were always pleasantly surprised and we never had a problem. We've yet to ever have an issue with using them. And we don't use them as much as we did during the mega part of the pandemic, but we use them enough now to say that they're a reliable service that I would keep paying for. I really like them. Yeah. When Amazon bought Whole Foods, everybody thought Instacart was going to die because Whole Foods was what they were for. Yeah, that was the narrative. And they really turned it around. And I used to see Instacart people all over Whole Foods. And I thought, gosh, yeah, all these people, where are they going to shop for others? And it turns out, lots of places. And if you have the luxury of time to be able to drive and park and shop for your own groceries, it's certainly cheaper. It's just more intensive. And I know, especially a lot of working parents out there are relying on delivery and finding a good, reliable, and inexpensive way to get that delivery is, even without pandemics, I think something people have realized, oh, wait, that's going to help me quite a bit. Well, we have a tech privacy story for you, but I need to make sure that there's a few things you understand because I'm guessing not everyone in our audience is up on the K-pop scene. So number one, Jungkook is a member of BTS who has a solo song called Seven that he is promoting currently the number one song on Billboard. Number two, like many celebrities, he has a fake burner TikTok account that he uses to watch videos without fans knowing what he's seeing and what he's liking and all of that. Number three, Weverse is a fan platform for K-pop groups that BTS posts on. Here's what you're going to do with that information. Understand this story. Tuesday, Jungkook posted a link on Weverse to a TikTok dance challenge video, except he created the link from TikTok while logged into his burner account. So when people clicked on the link on Weverse, it took them to TikTok. And then TikTok popped up a banner saying, Ian shared this video, watch and follow. But since Jungkook had posted it on Weverse, they're like, well, it's pretty clear that Ian is Jungkook's account. So what's going on with that? Everyone started to see.  That's definitely my account. He changed the name of the profile from Ian to JK to kind of let people know like, yeah, I'm not going to pretend it's not me. PC Mag's Kim Ki has used this as an opportunity to share some basic TikTok privacy tips. So go check those out over at PCMag.com. Things like don't share links while logged into an account you want to keep secret and ways to make your account private so that only approved followers can see your videos and other tips like that. That's good stuff to remember. I only have one TikTok account. I don't post to it, but I, you know, I'm logged in all the time. But I have multiple Instagram accounts. None of them are burners. It's me and my dog. But I've gotten this wrong more than once, you know, I'm just going too fast. I forget where I'm logged in, you know, I toggle back and forth all the time. Anyway, Facebook, this has happened. Let's see. What else besides Facebook? I've sent lots of emails from an address. I didn't want to send them from not a secret one, but just not the appropriate one. So yeah, these are, these are good reminders that even mega superstar K-pop band members also need a reminder now and then. Yeah. Yeah. Never had a burner account for anything. Is that weird? Should I have a burner account? Would you say if you did though? Only if you want to be looking at stuff and no one associated with Scott Johnson. I guess so. Exactly what someone with a burner account would say though. That's exactly right. Yeah, you'll never know if I'm really making it, but it just feels weird to have one. Well, it's one of those things where there's an official BTS account and you don't want to have all the members of BTS using that, but you also don't want people like, Oh, what did they like? What did they see? You know, you just don't want the pressure. You just want to be able to monitor what's up there. Oh, wait, I do have a burner Facebook account. In fact, I have two. Oh, no kidding. I haven't thought about it in a while because I haven't needed them, but you know, I'm just going to be honest here, unlike Scott Johnson. Thank you, Sarah. You're welcome. You brought integrity back to the show. Transparency is important on a show like BTS. I have two Facebook burner accounts. Find me if you dare. And then let us know by email. Speaking of, let's check out the mailbag. Speaking of, we were talking about the desktop or laptop experience versus say a mobile device on GDI yesterday and Marty wrote in saying, I used to find myself getting annoyed with how long somethings take on a mobile device. I eventually just stopped trying to do much other than quick actions on my phone. I find these days, unless it's a quick reply to somebody, I just wait until I get to my laptop to do whatever task I was trying to accomplish, which sometimes it's kind of silly to be honest, because the total length of time, including waiting for me to get to my computer can often be longer than I've, I just did the task on my phone in the moment. But for whatever reason, I just feel like I'm more productive that way. Marty says PS as a Canadian, I must legally object to the advice of not saying sorry for things because we did say Canadians, you don't always have to say sorry. Marty says, if we don't hit our sorry quota for the week, they take away our maple syrup. Yeah. So yesterday, a good day internet, I was talking about the course that I'm taking and the teacher telling people, don't say you're sorry, you're learning. That's fine. So yeah, the Canadians have a much harder time with that. I get it. Yeah. And to anybody being like, Oh my gosh, you could do so many things on a mobile device. We also talked about that, you know, it's everybody has their own, their own way of being productive. Yeah. And I'm sorry. I am also very sorry. But we're not sorry that Scott Johnson was here because not at all do the show without John a day like Taco Wednesday. So Scott, let folks know where they can keep up with you the rest of the week. I look forward to your future of just daily taco. Forget about days like just every day. Every day is taco day. Yeah, it kind of is in our hearts. I try to keep every day taco day on the frog pants network. And if you're interested in video game shows or content that happens in the morning, I have a morning show, for example, movies, all kinds of stuff. I just point your your squinties over to frogpants.com specifically the frog pants podcast area. You'll find something you like in there. I'm almost sure of it. So go check it out. That's frogpants.com. And I don't know, have your pick. You've been hearing these emails from people who reacted to the stuff we talk about on the extended show. So if you haven't got it already, get good day internet in your life.  Today, we're going to talk about YouTube's new creation tools, like remixing effects, new live options for creators for a short form platform, something I know Scott's interested in. So stick around. You can also catch our show live Monday through Friday. We do it at 4 p.m. Eastern. That's 20 hundred UTC. And we'd love to have you join us live if you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We will be back doing it all again tomorrow with Justin Robert Young joining us. Talk to you then. This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frogpants.com.