Aloha. I'm Marcia Joyner and we are navigating the journey. This is a really special journey because we are going to venture into the world of the silver tsunami. You know Hawaii is the ideal place for people to retire. And so today we are going to look at the different programs and projects designed for seniors or the silver tsunami. And my guest today is Ken Farm and he's the chair of the neighborhood board number 15 Kalihi Palama and he is expertise I guess is dealing with people and he knows most of the programs and within the state and the city and county that deal with these issues and being a well no I'm not a baby boomer I was born before the baby boomers anyway the baby boomer generation are the people born between 1946 and 1964 and between now and 2030 10,000 baby boomers each day will hit retirement age can you imagine that 10,000 a day so today we are going to look at that problems and all of the different issues related to the silver tsunami. Aloha Ken and welcome welcome Marcia to and welcome to think tech final days in that studio this is a really nice thing that is moving to a new to a new facility and so enjoy that last day there I will I will this is a really nice studio and I will be missed. Yes so let's talk about the silver tsunami about seniors well first of all before we do that tell us about Ken everybody knows Ken Farm well that's much appreciated Marcia thank you well let me let me say this let me say this he's a dear friend and his name is Kendrick Farm and he is Hawaiian so he has he has it's a great Hawaiian name Kendrick Farm but he does have a middle name and it has every letter in the Hawaiian alphabet three times so I just sure because it's easier for more people to you know you know it's easier to say yeah right yeah so what I also want to say too is I you know I am not you know the so-called expert when it comes to some of these programs I mean I try to become that expert when it comes to my community because I have a lot of people who are seniors and the reason being is because you know yeah as you mentioned before we're looking at the silver tsunami and one of the issues is that as these people start to get older the more and more that there is a need for different services or oppressing on the services that are currently available so it's important that people get into the right services in the right areas so that way they don't fall through the cracks and one of the things that I've noticed unfortunately and I hate bringing up homelessness on this is but I've seen a lot more seniors that are homeless and the reason that they're homeless is for the fact that for some of them is because they're on a fixed income and sometimes they know there might be medicines or or forms of medical care that they just can't afford uh where they could have had different services if they knew about it and that outreach was there and I think that that's very important I think throughout the you know the gamut of this entire show to talk about the well let's talk about outreach and do we have in I mean on paper we have this lovely little handbook for seniors but when they get there when they call that do they really get the kind of services they need you know so many like you said so many seniors have multiple multiple um prescriptions and then they have this strange uh what am I saying effect of one medicine on the other do they know where to go do they know how to get uh help for this kind of thing so that's that's where do we go how do we and especially like you said in your neighborhood because it's an old neighborhood it's one of the first neighborhoods on the island of Oahu so you have lots of people that have lived there for generations what is there do they get the care do they know how to go to get what they need so I think you know this is something we have to unpack I think that there's who who actually do get the services that you know that are they're looking for but there's also those who you know may not have that level of support that the others had in order to get that the care that they you know they have available one of the things you know that the state offers this is program called ship now that is an okay program we have people who are volunteering their time which is very commendable to help individuals but it mostly helps with them looking at it from a cost how much is it going to cost which is going to be cheaper and in some cases that's very important we're looking at affordability but the other thing too is is that is it going to be that the right level of care and the need that that individual has uh for their you know their lifestyle things that they've had to come up with and that takes a little bit more of of education when it comes to there and plus you know we talk about services and the amount of pressure on them because of many people calling so for example a ship there's some people who've waited you know almost a week or so for different answers and this is just the beginning as we start looking at more of the seniors and and the issues that are coming up you know as our unfixed income and so on and so forth we're going to see a need much more than what we have now so it's it's better that we get prepared it's better that we look at the reality of where it is and also is you know we have certain things that are going on that are showing that if we don't do this correctly we're going to have more people on the street so for example the more that we see seniors on the street that has something to do with fixed income but what are some of the things that could have prevented that right you know for some cases there's mental health issues that some have suffered before but when we have seniors who lived in apartments for example and now because of fixed income they're not able to afford living in those areas um what is it there for them you know if you have a person who's just on the street for example that's for them that that's trauma enough then you have a senior right and the issues that they have and and all the things that are going on I mean these are the kind of the hard issues that we're going to have to talk about it's easy to put people in little boxes here and there but every you know types of cases separate and then further more we have to ask the overlying questions well why is this happening and along with that is what are the support services available so that we make sure that you know they get the right information and you know I just was at a person who I know personally she does very good work her name is Martha and we talk about some of these things with people who have no idea for example you know July 1st is coming up and if you don't have the the new Medicare card for example um that doesn't have your social security number and and doesn't have the signature just has that 11-digit code or whatever it's on there then you may not get the services that you have so even if you have that it's important to look at some of those things and do our seniors have that do they know that do do our seniors speak something other than English what's that outreach when it comes to that community we have a lot of people for example in my community have about close to 43,000 and some of them English is a second language and we have to consider that when we look at these different services well speaking of services in uh how large is your area so the area that I have uh no I'm in Glee, Paloma how how large an area are we talking about I wish I had a visual to show you so um if we take from the river basically from Chinatown where that river is in Iwanu stream right up the school street and go all the way around past Helena's you know past Lanakila housing where there's a lot of seniors there keep going around where KPT is and down to to Middle Street everything below there uh Sand Island so I have you know this is Kalee Paloma on there but you know with is more of reality is I have Kalee Paloma I have Aala I have uh Ivali and Sand Island and all those areas combined is what that is and that's a very large area to begin with and then you have a population of 43,000 um that is something that you know even as a volunteer if you will when it comes to capacity on a neighborhood board that's a lot to deal with and you know it's when you can find those different types of things like I try to make it where my board you know I try to let my board members know that I try to find these different outreach vehicles so even if we've heard of it and I call it the bubble of people who kind of know these different services that people outside of that get acquainted with those services and maybe they qualify for it maybe they don't at least they know these other things are available so should they have somebody else maybe they qualify for it and I think that those things are important well now do you have an area that large are there of physical like um clinics and uh I guess that for people uh the little clinics the urgent care uh the big ones how far is it to uh queens or Kaiser or any of those and an urgent care people where they can physically go and be cared for are they close are there any of those dentists uh what about dialysis you know that's a big thing with and they say Hawaii leads the nation in kidney issues do you have dialysis in that area that is huge huge huge so you know are those facilities there aside from seniors you know you know which is we're talking about and I think that when we look at dialysis that's something that as sad as it sounds is something that is beyond just the senior population we have people who are younger who who uh rely on that in order to survive and we we don't have it within the district as far as I understand but I think it's something that as we look at to the as we look at you know the the zoning for mixed commercial residential but it's something that we should take a look at and how do we make sure that we have those services close to those areas as you know the population grows so I think that that's something that definitely is we talked about if it hasn't I think that we do have you know to answer your question about different types of medical care we have you know Kalihi Palama Health Center and they have their clinics there but they're also you know dealing with other situations and other problems so they're you know to capacity we have KKV which is Kalihi Valley it's another very important vital component to the healthcare aspect of our community those are the two that I can think of off my mind but all these things combined are important and as that population grows and as there's a more need for services we're going to ask ourselves questions you know such as you know what else are we going to need right now we have for example um we talked about you know people who are on a street hygiene center just that alone is important because anything that is preventive and healthcare is going to be cheaper in the long run than trying to get some money from the ambulance to emergency room care which is one of the most expensive forms of care that there is so the more that we can oh yes ambulances what is it ambulance cost what $1,200 I think the last I saw was about $1,850 for an ambulance right and I believe that emergency room care if I remember correctly was close to $3,500 so you combine both of those together just one time for one person that adds up so let's say if we did that for one person per month we're looking at close to $64,000 so it's it's important to have that preventive care so that we're saving money on that end so that we can put into different services outreach and other types of things that are badly needed and also to look at things you know when it comes to handy van handy van is a service that is vitally important it increases five percent every single year in terms of its usage but they have the same amount of staff and I think you know if there's money that we can go after from the federal side or different types of funding structures it's important and you know that and combined with everything else that's going on I think that that's something we have to take a hard look at because there's some people who don't want change or some people who don't want you know different things being built but when we look at what's going to be needed for the community I think those are the things that are important well now going back to the handy van how do we and I say we is a collective how do we access more funds for handy van what how is that funded so there are some programs that I understand on the federal side but there's also you know they're heavily subsidized there is no profit into it but it's a it's a public service and there's sometimes where it's a public service and there is no profit in it but it's something that we badly need and it is important to the community so it's just like for example I take the example of like a post office like in Waimanalo it's never going to make a profit but it's something that's there for the community and part of the services the government provides and we have to look at it in that standpoint now if there's other money on the table it's available that be aware of it there's brands or other things great if there's other ways that we can get more of that type of services I don't see any problem with trying to look at those things it's always trying to look at something new seeing if it was done before it was every you know impediments or what not what do we do to to make sure that those impediments are not there or maybe there are impediments that are there that we may have to look at changing legislation so all those types of things I think are important as we look at this because like you're saying we have a silver tsunami and as that grows there's going to be different need for services and we want to make sure that the more the people who are part of the different services get the services that they need that they could qualify for so that that's one less person that's on the street that's one less person that you know that doesn't have the housing or one extra person that you know it just it's there I see it all the time and it breaks my heart I see those people who are on there I've seen a lot of seniors and I know that proper affordable housing needs to be built and that's one of the only things that we need to do in order to make sure that that happens so that we have people so that they can live out their lives in a most dignified manner speaking of housing now I am I'm not going to pretend that I know your neighborhood because I don't however what I do know about that area is that there are a lot of empty buildings because it used to be an industrial area is there any way to convert those buildings into livable spaces so I think one of the things we have to look at and it's not dodging your question but because you know for example we have issues with some of the the industrial waste from before is to how do we go ahead and make that livable is that even possible with the EIS's and also have the conversation so people understand you know what is true affordable housing so I think you know with all those things working together that's something that's first but I think the key is is that is that place livable first you know even if we look at for sea rise sea level rise is that an area that we're confident that's going to be livable in the next you know 50 years or so aside from just the seniors there but you know the other uses as it goes so all those types of questions need to be asked if they haven't been asked already the second thing I think about it too again is that affordability because if we have seniors on fixed income what can we do about that and again if we look at it from the standpoint of well if a person's on the street just going to the emergency room for whatever the reason is $1,850 for an amulet right $3,500 for emergency room care and if we keep pounding away at that and having people understand that that's the cost regardless of what we do then I think that from there will elicit better responses and better solutions that are I I'm yes it seems you know they tell you oh well if you fall call 911 do this 911 but no one ever looks at the cost of calling 911 I don't want to dissuade anybody from calling 911 if you're having a stroke yes absolutely but some of the little things that people call for when you look at the cost and we as taxpayers pay that when a person can't so you know since you're talking about that and especially when you're talking about preventive care one of the things that comes to mind is where there's programs where seniors can have you know different types of railings put inside for their bathrooms and whatnot so that you know that at least a safety precaution against a fall I can't think of it right off hand but I know that those programs do exist and those little things like that just for seniors to be aware of should they qualify I think are very important what now what is uh what what is the quote age of being a senior um AARP accepts you at 50 uh is what is this state saying is a senior I believe it's age 62 I think is what what a senior is or that a teenager so you have to wait from you have to wait until you're 62 well you know most people in Hawaii are healthier than than most states so so at 62 is the quote amount that is qualified as a senior there's different cohorts of of of you know different groups that are more healthier than others but I think that you know we can look at that from you know from a different standpoint there's some who are from you know different groups that are much healthier if they have the means to to exercise and have the time and then we have those from other groups that you know that's not afforded that much and they're you know predisposed to you know say you know dialysis or everything else um that we just have to be cautious about now dialysis is terribly expensive oh my goodness oh I was reading about you know what is $10,000 a week or a month or what like that who has that kind of money you know because once you start dialysis that's forever you don't get to say well I'm just gonna do it this one time how do we pay for that so one of the things that is important and I didn't you know is bringing up the census for example and because and the reason I bring that up is because we in about 2016 we got about a billion dollars from the federal government for our Medicare system and I would say a lot of that went into services like dialysis also to like if you're part of a union some of those services are provided regardless of the union I can't you know if they're all different specific type of things but just knowing that the importance of something like that you know we got over 3.4 billion dollars in 2016 from the federal government and and sorry 2.7 and about a billion dollars went into Medicare so that shows you the importance of what that is and as our senior population grows we're going to need more of that and and you know we've talked about the census before and I know you had people on the show about it but the more that we have people counted the more that those types of federal dollars can go to different programs like that and that's why it's very important so we I yes we have done a regular series with the census people but again I would like for you to address the dollars and cents what by an accurate count how much do we get how much does the state of Hawaii get if we get an accurate account I know we were short on the account 10 years ago but this is only every 10 years so we need to get it right so tell me in terms of dollars and cents what is it that we didn't get and what can we get if the count is correct so it was in 2000 I believe was 2010 2010 and yes that was the next the one that we had there was a study that was conducted to show that you know for every person that wasn't counted we lost about $1,600 so just taking that into today's money it was about $1,800 however there was a study conducted by EBIT in the state of Hawaii Department of Economic Development and Tourism that has shown that for every person that we don't count is about $2,600 so you think $2,600 times it by you know however much you you know we've we've have you know my area I'm working really hard to make sure that every person's counted because we've had very low counts about 30% or so when our average for the state is close to about 75 or better that's just lost money that's just lost so the more that we have a count the better that we have the ability to serve our communities and qualify for federal money that we would not have and if we reach certain you know population benchmarks then you know there is other types of services that we could qualify for so I'm looking at this saying okay well we have you know just doing the simple math from before I think we lost about $95 million or more we just you know just because we didn't have people who who did the census so the more people that do the census the more that participate um and there's a trust in line with that so you know there's people who the census on their side they're trying to make sure that they're getting people from the community they can go ahead so there's trust that's you know afforded to so that if a person comes from that community there's more trust that comes that that person who's there is not just there to you know do the bidding of whatever law enforcement agency that it is but getting the proper count so that we have the proper amount of resources that we can go after speaking of resources um we've been talking about the silver tsunami about seniors of which I am one however some of that money goes into school lunches so talk about those other little things for people other than seniors and Medicare so we're going to go into the tangent here you're absolutely right it depends on the count it does depend on the count there's other types of services from head start to you know different types of the lunch programs um and there's other types of qualifying uh types of things that people have to go through however all that is part of a larger count if you will that comes from the federal government from the census goes to you know the department of health and human services and and there are other types of departments to determine in a certain formula how much an area gets but why that's important too from the senior side is because if we're spending money for example on something that could have been from somewhere else then that's just lost money so the more that we can be creative and say okay well if we're making sure that we're having this count um then the money that we had for something that wasn't fully dedicated for this can go to somewhere else or or even you know additional funds I think that's very important to look at and just that having that creative mind you know looking at these different things and not just seeing it in its own little box not just seniors not just you know uh you know uh children or parents whatever it is but the larger part of the component of the community of how everybody benefits from these different services the more that people are within services that we can provide funding for then there will be money and other things left on the table for other types of programs and other types of services so I think that's something that's very vital and important you know one of the ones that come to mind is definitely streets you know um money to make sure that streets are paved making sure that we have additional personnel if we're able to to help clean the roads and so on and so forth so all these things and police also for that matter we've had issues you know with public safety so the more that we can show the account of the population the greater their chances we have for this different federal fund that we were as a state or as a campaign for that could be paid for with another different coffer if you will well um now what we have talked about with the census of the different languages do you have several different languages in your neighborhood I do so and our go ahead do you have different so many different languages I just start there so you know one of the most popular ones that's on there is Tagalog I have two keys and I have Marshallese and I know I'm missing a couple that's in there Chinese as well but getting that proper count I know I have other languages in there but the more that we can show that level of inclusivity to that communities the more we have a larger count and the more that we can get people who you know that we can get the word out saying hey the census are looking for people um different various types of communities who can speak different languages the more like we talk about that trust that the community has uh in those individuals because they come from the community it's not somebody who's just coming from the outside so hopefully there's there's a little bit more of an inherent trust from that as opposed to just somebody who's you know hi I'm from the census here's my ID card you know somebody who's from the community that there's trust that that's already there I think that that speaks monumentally so what you're saying what you're saying is the more people that apply for the job with the census from that community the more trust there is is that what you're saying absolutely and I encourage people who are in those different communities go on there go to uh on the census website I believe it's census.gov and there's an area to apply um if you can google it there's uh jobs on there's a census jobs and it's for Hawaii so just you know if you're able to take advantage of that and there's also for people who qualify and if they're you know at a certain income threshold that they can still retain the services that they have and different types of benefits because it's only temporary while they're working for the census so they're not going to lose that while they're working for the census or even afterward. So yes it's just so that if they're already employed it's not going to hurt them working because it is part time. So I'm paraphrasing here but you should also check with the census as well I'm just saying that there's uh there is something where it's afforded where persons who are low income or considered low income have the ability to sign up if they are selected for the job um that they're not going to lose their benefits because if the job is temporary it's going to be paying above you know what would be minimum wage or whatever it is or whatever that threshold is but they're not going to lose their difference. Oh great all right so it is um 2020 census dot gov I think I hope if it's not just google it and try to find it I'm sure it's there too. Yes we want everybody counted in every language and that way we're back to the seniors in the the civil tsunami. Absolutely. Those seniors can also apply for these jobs. Yes they can. So it doesn't have to be just youngsters and especially yeah well I think it's good too because even if they're let's say you know a retirement home or they're in different types of senior housing you know I think that's something that I think they could do or get more people to participate in them because it's not just you know U.S. citizens it's every person who's here at the time who has an impact on our infrastructure and different services so that that's all very important. So that's a good idea I like that maybe we'll talk to the census people about recruiting from senior homes having people that live there work there you know that's a great idea thank you. Oh thank you Marcia. And it's always a pleasure to spend this time with you and we have run out of time but it always goes very fast. Again thank you Robert Eric and good luck with the move and we'll see you next time.


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All right, boys, now they're on their way. Now don't anybody get over-action. These Reno's ain't ordinary rocks. They got instincts like animals. Now the least wrong move and we can lose them. The way they come out of the bank with the money. Understand? Out of the bank. All right, now you definitely take a position. The rest of you people take your place as long as we speak like we plan. The big one's fine. The Reno's are coming! Too bad Mr. Peterson has to miss this. I don't think we get the Reno's till we. They ready in the bank? They've got everything set. Good. The Reno's are coming! The Reno's! Remember today there were a couple of farmers out of sight and stayed out. Time we're going to nail them with the group. It ain't natural. There ought to be more people around. It's gotta be natural. Nobody knows we was coming with us. Make it easier to get away. Frank's right. I don't like it either. You getting jumped in your old age, John? What? What do you say, Frank? Keep going. We put in too much time to pass it up. Now Frank might as well go through with that. What do you say, Frank? We'll take him. He's dead. We couldn't arrest him over there, even if we caught him. Jackson County. The Reno's run it from top to bottom. Well, we got one of them anyway. Yeah. Let's head back.  Take it easy, sis. How? Not knowing when you go out that door if you ever coming back. This time it was Bill. And the next time somebody else. That's the way it is, Laura. It doesn't have to be. You could leave the state. You could go somewhere where nobody ever heard of the Reno's. Where would that be? Anywhere. It was my fault, honey. I have smelled it. I smelled it. Ain't no use carrying on about it now. The important thing is, how did they know we was coming? Yeah, how did they know? How did they know? And so far ahead.  Maybe. But how did they know when we was coming? Is that our dear brother? Yes. Reno got killed. Clint, we want no pranks. Take it easy, sis. The baby of the family dying in the streets and his big brave brothers running away. Not even animals would do a thing like that. Dead in the street. Not dying. As if that made any difference. That's enough of that kind of talk, Clint. We sent for you, Clint, that... because we want you to go to North Vernon and get those bodies. They'll let you have it. You mean they won't arrest me? The Reno that's honest, that's quite a distinction in this community, aren't honest Reno? We're out into an ambush. Somebody told them we was coming. That shouldn't surprise you. The Reno's are worth a lot of money. Dead, you know where it was gone.    It was right fond of Bill, Clint. So was I. I tried hard enough to keep him from pinching in with you. And you, as long as you live, don't you ever accuse me of being an informer again. You got plans keeping to yourself. I don't want to know about him, not even accidentally. He won't. You're notorious outlaws. The law will get you sooner or later and they'll get you any way they can. In the back, ambush, while you're sleeping, they'll get you. Bill's death was only the beginning. Can't you see that, Lori? Can't you see it? I'm not doing anything. You're harboring him? What do you expect me to do? I would never have left you the house if he'd known how you were going to use it. I can't turn my own brothers out. How far does loyalty go? They're not only destroying themselves, they're destroying you too. Wait around, Clint! Peterson won't leave her alone. He won't leave any of you alone. We can handle anything that Peterson throws our way. Like you did today. I'll go to North Vernon and get Bill. We'll bury him beside Ma and Paul. Perhaps their souls will be a little less troubled now. What a kind. Such a gall, such a mitigated gall. Those kind would never be elected if the women folk could vote. Yes, we'll get the vote one day. Nobody to blame but ourselves. We voted a man. Well, why don't we do something about it? Have you forgotten Edelbach tried? Look what happened to him. We'd best let Peterson take care of the Reno Brothers. It was waiting for us. Loaded up and waiting. Somebody told him we was coming. Maybe Peterson's got a man planted in town. Who know what you was going to know at Vernon? You three. Now hold on Frank. He's not accusing us, Judge. He knows we wouldn't kill the Golden Geese. Clint know you was going? It wasn't Clint. He ain't one of us but he wouldn't have no part of setting up an ambush. Maybe it was him. He's got to talk to us when he's drinking. Yeah, he does most of his drinking at Murphy's place. Yeah, and he's bragging. And Murphy's the only new man to come to town in years. You supposed Murphy's a Peterson man. Give me a beer, Murphy. Shot him in the back. What about Bill? What happened over in North Vernon? I made a mistake.  My fault. Clumsy. All my fault. Well, I don't think Bill would have felt that way. He always thought you were the best. I was the best till I made that mistake. I let Bill down and now he's dead. He's dead. Well, we all have to go sooner or later. But they're going to go sooner. Come Saturday we're going back to North Vernon and blast the dental out. We'll get even for Bill. And this time we'll get the money. We'll get the money this time. I told him about Ken, I followed him home. Through the window I saw him write a note first. Then he went out the barn, settled the horse and left. Where'd he go? Up the Glendale Road. Couldn't follow without him knowing it. How long ago was that? 30, 40 minutes. But where's the mail list note? Eight hours he hid it someplace for another Peterson man to pick up. I think it's spy. We'll find out about that soon enough. Are we going to be home by now? We'll wait. We've got time. Tell Doby to get the horse. Doby, I'm ready to mount. Where you been, Murphy? Righty. What o'clock in the morning? There's some rule about when a man go righty. You stinking spy. Spy? What are you talking about, Tim? You're a Peterson man. Peterson man? You're crazy. Don't lie to us, Murphy. You know me, boys. You've known me for a long time. Yeah.  We was going to raid the bank in North Vernon. Why would I do that? Because you're getting paid for it. You just delivered a letter saying we were going to head North Vernon again. I don't know why you got such an idea. We baited you, Murphy. You said we just played like he was getting drunk and giving away secrets. We know that it flushed out. And court rights saw you write the letter. Court rights lying. Get a rope.  Somebody else will come. We'll handle him too. Time up to the staller. John, get that horse out of there. Let him come too so he'll know what's happened. Take your time. There's another letter for Peterson. Oh, good. Have him come in. Come on in, man. Hello, Mr. Peterson. Glad to see you, Mom. Sit down. Thank you, sir. How are things in Denver? Couldn't be better, Bill. Did you read about Murphy? Yes, sir, I did. And that's what happens when something goes wrong. They shrewd those Reno's and vicious. Control the whole county in southern Indiana. Judge, prosecutor, constable, all on their side. Reno's had them elected. I still wonder how a thing like that could happen. Well, people who've had freedom as long as we have sometimes take it for granted. Come election day, they're lazy. Or callous. Same thing. However, it's done. Our job is to get it under. Yes, sir. How do we go about it?  Yes, sir. My wife knows the line of work I'm in. I don't want you to jump into this thing. I didn't know exactly what you had in mind, but to bring me all the way from Denver. The way I figure it, this is sort of a promotion. Well, don't let your vanity get in the way of your better judgment, Monk. I'm a working man, Bill, with a job to do. I didn't like my work. I'd have gotten out of it long ago. In the war, we called it calculated risk. Yeah, we did. I've got a new man I want you to work with, Monk. I don't figure this is a term to break in a greenhorn. All new to us, that is. He's had some experience along this line. Maybe not experience with this kind of violence, but I think he's the kind of a man that can handle himself in rough going. His name is James Barlow. Barlow? Well, I see you remember him. That's the same James Barlow I'm thinking of. I do remember him. He is. He was in the employee of the Southern States, which we found out after the war. Mr. Greeley said that he was worth a whole army. It's the only thing that Mr. Greeley ever said that Mr. Lincoln agreed with. I still wonder how he got hold of so many secrets. Certain generals' wives found him very charming. Irresistibles that were dead. As a matter of fact, I recall, I wasn't the only one that invited him to dinner. Secretary Stanton had him too. He modest as it may sound. Man could fool Stanton and me, could fool the Reno boys. That sounds mighty reasonable, sir. You ought to trust him implicitly. Let him run the whole show. How does he plan to get in with a Reno brother? He doesn't. He plans to let them get in with him. In making out your report to the sheriff on this robbery, my description is as follows. Six feet three, a hundred and ninety-five pounds, hazel eyes and brown hair. Six feet three, a hundred and ninety-five pounds, hazel eyes and brown hair. We need to be about half a minute. Call the cord. Now you want me to dump the pasta, you give me the signal. That's right, Joe. Take a few shots at you. Remember, I took you good, but you have another one hidden. First, I take some shots at you. When the crane stops, I give the alarm. Right over the door. Right on schedule, Jim. Side of salt, meat, ten pounds of sugar, five pounds of coffee, some bacon soda and a bathtub. All right, mister. Good morning. Good morning. I take it you're Jim Barlow. No, you alternate you. That's right. Said a couple of days ago, he was expecting you, staying at the farm. Mm-hmm.  Yes, I am. What do you paint? People. Like El Greco, Rembrandt, Van Dyke. Not quite. Oh, this is Mr. Claxton. How do you do? Nice to meet you. You a painter, too? No, I'm just looking after Mr. Barlow. He's not fully recovered from the war. Good morning, Miss Laura. Good morning, Mr. Fisher. Is my order ready? Yes, just finished it. Oh, uh, Mr. Reno, this is Mr. Barlow. How do you do, Mr. Barlow? It's a pleasure, Mr. Reno.  He's a painter. Oh. Well, that be all, sir. Excuse me, please. Three dollars and, uh, twenty cents. Mr. Fisher, can you change this? Mr. Barlow. If you got anything smaller, please call my change. Thank you very much. And come again. I'll do that. I'll be around for some time. There you are, Miss Laura. May I help? Oh, don't bother. Quite the contrast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hope to see you again, Miss Laura.  I'm afraid not, Mr. Barlow. Who are you, Mr? That's none of your business, Pete. Would it be on your way, you? Oh, I beg your pardon? You heard him. On your way. My friends, you have them very good manners. Oh. Thank you, Gunwell. Sorry, Miss Laura. It's still up to your old tricks, huh? Thirty thousand dollars, Frank. Got the heap of money.  I told you we didn't do this train robbery. The robber wore a mask, had hazel eyes, and sandy hair. It was around 35 years old, six feet three inches. Weight, 195 pounds. The description fits you, John. Careful a lot of more. It's a lot of other people, too. Thirty thousand dollars. Judge, you'd be mighty pleased to share in a heap of money like that. We didn't do it. But I wish we had. Don't argue with him, sir. You're in no position to get up at he. Listen, you've got your full portion of every job we've ever pulled, and you'll go right on getting it. But don't come around here accusing us of holding out on you. All right, Frank. But as prosecuting attorney of this county, I warned you. You sure was rough on him. He's been rougher or not to accuse us any more. Sit around doing nothing while we take all the chances. At least in the hold, you got to pay for races at the hold. Thirty thousand dollars is a heap of money. Who would have thought of holding up a train? Seems like a business worth considering. What was the matter with them? Oh, money crazy. As usual, they're accusing John of holding up the train.  You think it's smart to make them mad? They better worry about making me mad. How'd it go? Fine, boys. You set it up well. Good. Buy some extra shooting iron. Now we met a young lady. Two gentlemen objected. It turned out to be a couple of fellas named Lee and Pete. They're a couple of the Reno gang. The families? No, just henchmen. Well, you certainly started to ball rolling all right. You sure did. That's the object. But the description does fit John Reno. John Reno didn't do it. He never does anything by himself. Frank, that's all of it. Thank you. Frank didn't do it either. Mine don't run that way. Here are two suspicious. We've got a right to be suspicious. Our share keeps getting smaller and smaller. First we know that dealers out completely. How can they? We'll be reelected next month for two more years. They know we've signed their bread butter. You think we can get away with this for two more years? Our collusion with the Reno brothers is one of the worst-kept secrets in history.  We've got to be realistic. A bank job at North Vernon sure would have helped. Who'd he cryin' about that? We'll make it up on that day with County John. How much of tax collection's around? My demok'er, 20,000. It's time we protect ourselves. We'll send Jason a court right away. I think he'd had no experience in that kind of thing. No, it doesn't matter. When the money's counted, I want somebody there we can trust. If you'll ever find anybody you can trust... Here, Judge. It was the problem of our bank. It's come across with them $100 bills for the train robbery. Serious numbers checked. We could get it. We had to feature your department. You reckon when the Reno spent it? You're gonna buy it out of the spell. Sure, I remember. The first $100 bill I've seen in years and all you often have to spend it. You've done the tangle with Pete McCartney and Lee Hardy? That's right. Name's Marlowe's painter, new fella. You'd have to be new to the tangle with those two. Had a whole handful of $100 bills. Something wrong? Oh, no, no. Just check it. Had a whole handful of $100 bills? Something else, too. He fits the description of the hold-up man. I'd say he has some explaining to do. You'd feel it better get at it.  Well, then behave yourself. You know how I feel about you taking up with strangers? I didn't take up with him. He helped me into the buggy with my packages. Well, a boy said you and him was getting mighty friendly. Now you understand one thing. This is my house. You want to go on using it, you better be careful. Get back to the Davies County job. It's time we're not all going in at once. We're in three locks. Somebody I never seen before. Thank you to bring these back. I guess those two have cooled off enough to be trusted with them. Besides, it gives me a chance to see you again. Get inside. Don't order me around, Frank. What do you want? Oh, and nothing. I'm just returning some equipment that belongs to friends of Miss Lara's, some pistols. Drop them. Now back away. Who's he? I'm her brother. Well, mister, I must say you don't act very naively. Got no cause to be naively.  Didn't come to see you, came to see Miss Lara. You heard me. Stop it, Frank. It's all right, Miss Lara. You needn't be trouble. I'll see you someplace else. When you come in town again. She ain't. See you then. You may think you're spiting me, but let me tell you something. Anything goes wrong, you've got just as much to lose as the rest of us.  Get one thing through your head, too. I'm not a child. And I won't be treated like one any longer. I hear mice.  What's going on here? You two. Who are you? The law.  Well, I'll sue this county for ever. Diamond Scott? Maybe not. Mind telling us what the charge is? Suspicion. All words. Suspicion of what? Train robbery. Train robbery?  All right, boys. Take them into town. You can't do this, I tell you. Most disgraceful thing I ever heard of. Who do you fellas think you are anyway? The law. That's old. Take them in. Clean Chris $100 notes. If we get the judge to split this between us. Why? Why, uh... Why not? Let's have a look inside. We were coming to see more from Robertson, Illinois. We saw the crowd around the money box. We went down there. They had been a train robbery. We found the money. I guess the robbers dropped it. For three hours I've been telling you that. And for three hours I've been telling you we don't believe it. I can't help it. Sit down. A drink of water? No. The money matches. The description matches. Your arrival here matches. Everything matches. No incidents. Where's the money? You took it. I mean the rest of it. The other $29,000. Oh, it's for you. You don't believe me. Any news? Don't talk. How about him? Nothing. All right? On your feet. Come on. I was asking him questions. All of a sudden, Barlow said, get the judge. And a lot of more got excited. He kept saying he was the prosecuting attorney. And if Barlow had anything to say, he was the one to say it to. Naturally, I'm the one to talk to. Glad we're trying to fog everything. He wants to talk to you. So we're here. Go ahead and talk. You listen to me. I'm the prosecuting attorney here. Wait outside. This was my doing. He never budged. Did I threaten to get the express messenger down here to identify him? That's what we can do. Wait outside. What do you want to see? I have a drink of water, Judge. Go ahead. You appreciate irony, Judge. How's that? The imponderables. The little things that happen to wreck a foolproof setup that you can never figure will happen. This was a foolproof setup. I had a contact man in the express office who told me when the money would be shipped to pick the perfect spot for the train robbery, the money box was open just right, and up to that point everything was perfect. And then... And then came the imponderable. In my hurry to get away, I dropped a few bills with serial numbers, and here I am. Where's the money? Hidden. My share of it is your share. Here it is all by yourself. No man could do this by himself. There were six of us. Seven counting the contact man. Where are they now? It's got it. It leaves three here. Two, but Claxton and me. U-Haul had nothing to do with it. He didn't know about it. Claxton's share hidden too? With mine at the U-Haul farm. Where at the U-Haul farm? You couldn't find it. I'd have to go with you.  I'm sure you can send Claxton to me to prison, but it won't get you a raise in Southern. It won't get you much of a reward. As for me, with the contact man who knows when the big express wanted shipments to be made, it'll ruin a million-dollar business. You say you've got a contact man to express on it? A big one. A superintendent. Which office? I'm a practical man, too, Judge. How do I know you ain't lying? You think I held that train on the spur of the moment? How do you think I knew when he was aboard? A million-dollar business. But not with me in prison. We don't get it. Somebody else will. The way you talk. Like the way you handle yourself. All I need is a little freedom. It won't be that simple. A lot of people here in town know you were arrested with some of that hold up money in your possession. Oh, you gotta say yes. I proved. I found it around the money box. Others did. And what guarantee have I got if I turn you loose? You will pull out. The best in the world. I need you more than you need me. This is a safe place to hold up between operations. Besides, if I did pull out, you'd still be better off by $3,000. I guess we owe Mr. Barlow an apology. He's clean as a house, too. Wait a minute. Perhaps you misunderstood me. Mr. Barlow had nothing to do with the train robbery. He found the money. That was our opinion, too. Yeah, clean as a house, too. I have court right to release the other two. I'm going out to the U-Haul farm with Mr. Barlow. Why did I go to? And me? Trying to stop you. Well, by the way, did you two gents give the judge his share of the $600 you took from me? $3,000. This is only the beginning. All right, so far so good. Now, where do we go from here? We have to wait for news from the head office. Let's hope it won't be too long. We hope stronger than you. Since we're the ones who've been cleaned out. Have a good day, gentlemen. I'd rather nap those trees than to turn in the Reno boys. Take it easy, Chief. One thing at a time. Was that $3,000, Eva? You'll get yours, Mr. Prosecutor. You'll get it. Just ask him. You know, I was just thinking. He'd be a good one to send to Davis County with a Reno. They'd adjacent our court right. Maybe. He don't scare easy. You reckon the Reno's a stand for it. You have to make it a court order. Come on. Anything else, Miss Laura? Oh, yes, I'd like a side of bacon. But yesterday... I know. I'd like another side of bacon. Eight and a half pounds, all right? Fine. Anything else? That's all. Here's that article you asked for, Miss Laura. Oh, thank you. Goodbye, Mr. Fisher. Goodbye, Miss Laura. Oh, Klim. Mr. Barlow, I'd like you to meet my brother, Klim. How are you? How do you do? Nice meeting you, Miss Barlow. It's a book I borrowed from Mr. Fisher. Interested in painters, Miss Laura? Yes. Sixteenth-century painters. Oh. I don't think you're going to find me in this edition. Time shall we shop tomorrow. A couple more shopping days like this, and I can open my own store. It's been a genuine pleasure, Miss Barlow. I agree. Thank you, Mr. Barlow. Good day. You're self-killed? Huntery. I was just planning my future. I don't like you, Barlow. I don't like you at all, but I admire guts. Judge Hawkins says you're pretty good at train riding. Fair, I'd say. You think you're good enough to ride with the Reno's? That's a compliment. My partner now could silly your invitation. No partner.  I see. When do we go? Now. Now? Uh, where? When you ride with us, Barlow, don't ask no questions. Isn't that the state line we just crossed? Any harm now? I'm telling me where we're going? Up ahead. How much, Father? You asked too many questions. What do you mean by that? Look, you're along with an extra hand. You got nothing to say. Didn't the judge make that clear? Yeah. All right, now I'm making it clear.  All right. Just sit up, circle around, and go in. Nobby? Yeah. Meet us on Churchill. John and Sim up in front of the surveyor's office. Come on, John. Hey! Is everything all right? Don Frank, the courthouse is no good the front way. They got to go around the back. Frank didn't plan it that way. Frank didn't plan to have the sheriff eat these dinner across the street either. The back door of the courthouse. All right, let's go. There's plenty in here. I know what's in there.  I think we got it. Plenty. Nice and clean, if I do say myself, we left those boys far behind. Yeah, but they still got the telegraph on their side. This is where we split up. Every man goes back to the house his own way. Roundabout, too. Move out! I said this is where we split up. I don't know this country. Well, go with one of them. I'm going with you. Kinders, how are you the one that's got the money? It's between 10 of us. That's $2,122 a piece. That don't seem like very much. Could have been more. Why wasn't it then? Ask him. Everything was going fine. He did a shot at one of the clerks. If I'd let him get his hands on that pistol, he'd have blown somebody's head off. She'd have put him on the floor in the first place. She'd have put him all on the floor the moment we went in. You don't think much of the way I run things, do you? No, not very much. $2,122 a piece for all this work and risk. You'd be better off if you went back to plowing. Well, you'll get a chance to see what kind of a job you'd come up with. Won't be for chicken feet like this. You can bet on it. Count out my share. I want to get to bed. This time I'll divide with Clarkson. But next time, he's got to be in on it. Good night. Good night, sequel. Might be big for his britches. And as a six-gun, real pretty, though. Real pretty. You paint a pretty picture, Mr. Bono. I'm sorry if I disappoint you, Miss Laura, but as you know in our business, a little dishonest is necessary now, man. So you're no better than the rest of them. In fact, you're not as good. At least the Reno's don't pretend to be something they're not. I'm flattered by your interest, but if you were attracted by the painter rather than the man, maybe it's better you find out now. I guess it is. I don't expect very much of people. But I believed in you. I wanted to believe in you. I wanted so much to believe in you. I can't wait any longer. I got to get a message to Peterson. Why don't you wait a morning, monk? He'll turn up. Maybe so or no or maybe not. He's been sidetracked from his business. You know, I was warned about his fondness for women. You'd better get a horse saddle. As you say it. Somebody's coming. That's funny. Going around the back. Good evening, gents. Hi, Jim. No, I want you to get a lot of started on this way to Peterson. Now, saddle up right away. Where have you been, Jim? What happened? Several interesting things, monk. Several interesting things. Let it go, dad. Sure. He's making progress. He wants me to meet him at the sheriff's office in North Vernon as quickly as possible. Oh. Get word to our field man that I'll be there Friday night. You'd best make a Saturday night. It may take a little while to find Hieronymus. He's always on the move, you know. Oh, Saturday then. Hieronymus.  Sell anything new? No. No stuff getting better. I want you to meet my boys. Jim, monk, come here. This is my nephew Jim Barlow. Happy to make your claims, Mr. Barlow. Monk Clackston. Clackston, Mr. Clackston. What are you doing back in this territory? Oh, I got a fine line of a mammal wear. A stew and pot and side dishes. It's all right. You can talk now. We're by ourselves. You're my business friend. Caution becomes a habit. Barlow, Mr. Peterson wants to meet you Saturday night. Where? Sheriff Mosley's office in North London. I'll be there. That's probably Barlow. Well, Peterson, glad you could make it. Good to see you, Jim. Sheriff Mosley. Sheriff? Howdy, Barlow. Deputy Barlow. Howdy. Howdy. I was beginning to worry about you. I did a little warning myself. How's Monk? Oh, just fine. Just fine. Sit down, sir. Gentlemen, here's the layout. I got the clique all primed for a big haul. All that's necessary is to bait the trap, but we must bait it well. Yes, pilgrim. Indianapolis. James Barlow, Seymour, Indiana. Based on yield this year, next corn crop should reach 100,000 bushels and will need your help to farm. Aunt Mary leaves here Friday the 11th on train 58th on her way to Louisville. Try to see her for a moment at Seymour. What does this mean? That's from the contact man of the home office of the express company. It means train 58th, leaving Indianapolis for Louisville. This coming Friday will be carrying 100,000 dollars. 100,000 dollars? Well, that's it. 100,000 dollars. It's the answer to every day. It means we can go to California now, gentlemen. I wouldn't be buying my tickets yet. But Friday's only three days off. That won't give me enough time to get my men together. Clarkston and I can't handle this class. Hell, you've got the Reno boy. I don't get along with them there, Claude Hopper's crew. They've done good so far. Reputation, yes, but they're still Claude Hopper's. This is a big job. It has to be handled right. Otherwise, I'd rather pass it up and wait for another one. But when will that be? I don't know. But the Reno's followed your orders on this. You know how they feel. Frank wants to run everything. But suppose he lets you run it? Yeah. Yeah. You understand they're my instructions. I won't have any arguments from anyone. Over that kind of money, we can afford to let you run things. There can't be any hit or miss about this. We'll meet at the U-Haul farm at five in the morning. I'll be waiting. Hello, sir. After we get the money. Hello, sir. Barlow, I got to talk to you. What about?  I've tried to get her away myself. Even offered to leave the county with her, but she's loyal to my brother. I don't know that I could do anything about it. You can break her loose. That's what you can do about it. My brothers are no good. They're destroying themselves, they're destroying Laura, and maybe you too if you don't get away. But I... She's worth saving, Mr. Barlow. Believe me, she's worth saving. Take her away. She'll go with you. She's in love with you. Seems to me this is something she should say for a self-print. Oh, but it's getting mighty late. Take your men around the other end of the train. Be quiet. Come with me. They got Frank. All right, they got him.  I'm going to give up. What? Don't shoot! I give up. Why didn't you let me shoot the yellow belly? We are saving him and you. All right, take them off. All right. Mosley, did you get the man with the horses? We got the lot. We're Clarkson. He didn't know how right he was when he called us a calculated risk. He's a good man, Peterson. And they may get loose. They may. Nobody knows what the Reno's can do. We simply cannot take any more chances with them, not only for our own sake, but for the sake of the whole state. All around us, other counties are decent and God-fearing while we have been notorious. This is not my idea. This is the idea of the majority of you. None of us is excited. None of us is hot-headed.  Anybody got anything to say? As long as the Reno's are left alive, there's always a threat that we'll be terrorized again. I say the time has come for us to make sure we can live the rest of our lives in peace and quiet. And to take some of the shame off Jackson County. Anything else? We've talked enough. Let's get the job done. It's now 11 o'clock. We'll leave right away. That should put us there by three while it's still dark. Come on, and with mask. It had to happen, whether they were your brothers or mine. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you the real truth about myself. Oh, Jim! Who's in there? It's all right, Noah. You, Jim? Yeah. Well, it's not like you're trying to get yourself some night out. What's going on here? Oh! Who is it? Let me see you all first, Barlow. He's here. Yeah. Oh, Mr. Barlow. Laura. They're after Frank and the others. Oh. Fisher and the mob. They're headed for North Vernon. Look after Laura. Okay, what happened? Fisher, Dedrick, and Polia are the leaders. They stirred up the whole town. Reach for your gun. What do you want? We want the Reno brothers. Give us the keys. See me. You hear that? You want the Reno brothers. You men got no right to... Give us the keys. Hurry up. We haven't got all night. Which way? All right, take them out. I forgot how to walk. It's off of me. You keep out of this bubble. You're breaking the law. I'm going in. We're the law now.  The Reno brothers, we're going through this. You won't lower an order. Is this the way to get it with a mob? The Reno's are going to be tried. Tried, legal, and proper. They're going to be hanged now. Yep, drop that gun, Barlow. Get on with it.  If you hang these men... Who are the others? Dedrick, who are they? I don't like lynches much better than I like outlaws. Put them in the Reno cells. It was worth it. After a few years behind the bars, maybe you'll change it too. How do you got shooting, Barlow? Sorry, Pa. Didn't do much good after all. You shouldn't have come here. I'm sorry, Laura. I tried.


Normally, I'm a big fan of handing out primary sources and just seeing what they do with it. But I think in this case, I would want to make sure that we had looked at a map together and seen where these places are and seen what's on the Mediterranean and seen maybe the ports, the European ports that Americans were trading in, so they could get a sense of how close you have to get to North African ports and how far their ships would range. I think I might also want to talk with them about what people were trading over there, because that's one of the questions you're left with, is why are Americans trading with Tripoli? And they really aren't trading with Tripoli, but they're taking a whole bunch of flour and wheat over to the European continent is really what they're trading. So I might want to set up some of the context. Why are we going there? What's going on once we're getting there? Who are these Tripolitans? Where are they located so they could get a sense of what was going on? I would ask them to come up with a list of questions from the source so that we could talk about what was confusing to them or talk about some of the things that they were interested in. And what I would hope would come out of that is that they would ask even more detail questions about the relationship and how is the government involved, but also the relationship between the United States and Tripoli. Why Tripoli is taking the ships? I think that would be a really interesting question for them to ask. The other thing I was struck with is at the very end, in the very beginning of this letter, he talks about how long it takes letters to get back and forth. So I think that raises a lot of issues about doing government business if it takes two and three months to get letters back. And of course, Cathcart is probably sending multiple copies of the same letter by various ships hoping that one of them will make it because those ships are very likely to be captured by Algerians, by the French, by the English and never make it home. And in fact, he's kicked out of Tripoli and Tripoli declares war on the United States. And the Americans don't know for another month or so after that war has been declared because he can't get the information back soon enough. So meanwhile, America does send a couple of ships over. And the ships are charged with either making arrangements or attacking. So they're sent with some money and said if you can smooth things over, if you can make things work out all right, that's okay. But if you have to use force, use force. And they get to Gibraltar and they find that war has been declared. And what happens after that is that Americans have, I think it's five ships that's sent as part of that flotilla. And they blockade the Tripolitan port. Unfortunately, they blockade it ineffectively because there are only five ships. And what they find is that the Barbary states in general work together. So they're blockading Tripoli, but Algerian ships take Tripoli goods, Tripoli passengers, and they're able to get into the harbor of Tripoli because we're not officially at war with Algiers. Tunis does the same thing. So they load up goods on their ships and they're able to get into the harbor in America. I can't really do anything about that. Incidentally, at the same time, one of the states that's often part of that Barbary states configuration, Morocco, looks like they're going to declare war as well. So some of those ships are sent down to Morocco to protect American shipping basically past Morocco, which is on the Atlantic and much more able to take American ships.