Good evening. My name is Patrick Hanlon. I'm the vice chair of the Arlington zoning board of appeals and in the absence of our chair. I'll be here presiding over tonight's, tonight's meeting. I'm calling this meeting of the board to order at 733 p.m. And I'd like to first confirm that all members of the board and anticipated officials are present. So let me go through the list of the board first Roger to pot here. Patrick Hanlon is here Elaine Hoffman here. Venkat Holy here. Adam LeBlanc here. Daniel Riccardelli here. Okay, I don't think I missed anybody this time. Town officials Colleen Ralston. I don't see him here. Is Vincent Lee here? Colleen, do you know? I don't see him. Okay. So appearing for we have a number of cases on the agenda and I want to go through the P make sure that the people who are representing the applicants or the applicants themselves are. So appearing for a 60 high height road. High Heath Road is Chris Nielsen. Yes, I'm here and also my wife Emily and architect Chris Berry. What's our 60. I'm here. Chris Berry. Chris Berry and Emily is she here. He's on the same with me. Okay, got it. For 60 to 62 Magnolia Street. Okay. And the next is for applicants is Rebecca and David staff and Alexander. And my name is Brett character. I'm the GC. The homeowners are on the call, but I will be doing their representation. Okay. Great character. Thank you, Mr. character. For 14 Oakland street. Yes. I'll be representing the, the owners. And they will be on the call on the zoom. Architect. Right. Okay. And the architect is Catherine Bisha. The owners are the. Yeah. Who Alexander is the architect. Okay, got it. Yeah. And for 61 aerial street, the applicants are Laura Walden and Emily Walden. Yes. And we're here this evening and our architect and contractors here as well. Okay. Got it. Who's the architect. Alexander Peterson, representing Derby Square. Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Okay. This open meeting of the Arlington zoning board of appeals is being conducted remotely consistent with the act, making appropriations for the fiscal year 2023. To provide for supplementing existing certain existing appropriations and for certain other activities and projects, including ours. Signed into law on March 29th, 2023. We have a meeting of the public bodies of the remote meeting provisions of Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 executive order, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. Public bodies under that can meet. And remotely without a quorum of the public body physically present at a meeting location. So long as they provide adequate alternative access to. Remote meetings. Public bodies may meet remotely so long as reasonable public access is afforded so that the public can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting. An opportunity for public participation will be provided during the public comment period. During each public hearing. And I would like to stress that the public comment period is for that once it closes. The people may speak only with at the invitation of a member of the board. The public may speak only with at the invitation of a member of the board. The public may speak only with at the invitation of a member of the board. For this meeting, the Arlington zoning board of appeals has convened a video conference via the zoom application with online and telephone access as listed on the agenda posted to the town's website. Identifying how the public may join. This meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast by ACMI. Please be aware that attendees are participating by a variety of information. Please be aware that you may not be able to see your audio or by telephone. Accordingly, please be aware that other folks may be able to see you. Your screen name or another identifier. Please take care not to share personal information. Anything that you broadcast may be captured in the recording. We ask that you maintain decorum during the meeting, including displaying an appropriate background. All supporting materials that have been provided members of the board. Please be aware that the public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda. As chair, I reserve the right to take items out of order in the interest of promoting an orderly meeting. As the board will be taking up new business at this meeting as chair. I make the following land acknowledgement. Whereas the zoning board of appeals for the town of Arlington, Massachusetts discusses and arbitrates the use of land in Arlington, formerly known as monotony. The board here by acknowledges that the town of Arlington is located on the ancestral lands of the Massachusetts tribe. The tribe of indigenous peoples from whom the colony, province and commonwealth have taken their names. We pay our respects to the ancestral bloodline of the Massachusetts tribe and their descendants who inhabit historic Massachusetts territories. Today. So. I'd like be. The first item on our agenda. Is. Is an administrative item. It is the hearing in his approval of the. Decision in 20. Martin street. You've received that decision on draft on Monday. And I made with all the changes that were recommended where in this case, I had the name of the file. And redistributed that this afternoon. And I. So. This is an administrative matter that will not. Have a public comment period. And we will not be discussing the merits of all of that. The question. The decision haven't been taken on May 23rd. So the. Any further comments for any firm is condition. Comments or additions to. To the, the. To the proposed decision that you've received today. No. Okay. Seeing none, the chair will entertain a motion to approve the decision. Mr chairman. I would motion that. The board approved the proposed written decision. The motion. The motion. In 20 Martin street. Okay. The motion made by Mr. DuPont. Is there a second? Second. Okay. So let the Mr. Holy, I think. Yes. Yes. Okay. So let's. We'll, we'll do a roll call down the board. Mr. DuPont. I. Miss Hoffman. Hi. Mr. Holy. Hi. Mr. LeBlanc. Hi. Mr. Mr. Rickard, Dailey. I am. And the chair votes I and the. Emotion is approved unanimously. Okay. Now we're ready to get into the public hearings. And the. We see the Mr. Nielsen. Are you going to make the presentation or did somebody else was going to do it to do it for you? I'm going to start and I'm going to turn it over to the architect Chris Berry. Okay, so why don't you tell us what you what you're proposing to do. Okay, so, as I mentioned, I'm Chris, this is Emily and Chris Berry is the architect. Also attending we are, I just want to, I know, I know, you know, these initial statements should probably be pretty concise for your sake so I'm just going to say a couple of quick things. Number one that Emily and I are a long time Arlingtonians having lived four blocks away from this house on on Highland Avenue for 20 years in Emily's case 15 years in my case. We actually had no intention of moving we're anytime soon. But when we saw that a tiny house that adjoins monotony rocks park came on the market. We suddenly started thinking this would be a very cool place for us to sort of develop and live in for the rest of our lives so we jumped on this house and and we purchased it, despite the fact that it is very tiny it was advertised to us as 925 square feet. And actually it's in a kind of a stripped out condition inside it's not really livable as it is. So then we, we said about designing a renovation of the existing house and an addition for these purposes big enough for us to kind of host family when they visit we also Emily works at home now and I sometimes work at home so we want to house big enough that we can both work at home in and so that's resulted in in in the current planned house that we submitted for the special permit. To the, the building inspector Mike Ciampa, even before we bought the house several times subsequently and then we had like an hour and a half long conversation with him a few months ago. And he, after looking through our plans I don't want to speak for him but he basically advised us that the only thing we really needed to apply for was a special permit on the basis of an addition to the house that was larger than 750 square feet is what we are presenting today. The, the other thing that I want to mention the only other thing I want to mention and I don't know whether it pertains to the, you know the decision here or not it might but I think we have interest to the committee matter committee members no matter what are the board members. And that's that Emily and I both work in climate climate change mitigation fields. And so as we were undertaking this project, we decided that we, we needed to try and try to come up with a plan for this house that was as low carbon as possible. Neither of us actually knows it much at all about the building side of decarbonization. And so I just want to mention that we we hired a energy consultant to help us and Chris or architect to think about how to design this house. We learned a lot about that and we kind of pleased that where we got we're trying to do this within our means we knew we couldn't do a net zero house but between the insulation and finding a relatively low cost supplier of triple pane passive certified windows and 100% electrification and solar power on the roof. And our consultant john Rodin Heiser, who is a hers raider has advised us that the projected hers rating for this house is eight, and we were pretty pleased we were, we didn't expect to get that far and we're quite, we're quite pleased about that we want to make sure that you, at least we're aware of that aspect of our plans here. So I'm going to turn it over to Chris Barry, our architect. Oh, thank you. It's nice to be here this evening. I've been working with Chris and Emily for about three years now. And we've really been looking for solutions that reinforce the natural beauty of this site but also fit within the context of the neighborhood. I understand by definition. This has been classified as a large addition. But in relation to the actual surrounding houses, the net result of this project is consistent with other homes in the neighborhood and in fact maybe smaller than some adjacent homes the neighborhood. The addition street design the early to design guidelines and the current zoning. We're looking for ways to achieve a modest home that addresses both their needs and reinforces the natural features of this site which we find to be quite dynamic it was one of the reasons why they decided to buy the house. The ideas such as like a garage which we know other people had tried for were taken off the table it didn't fit in the context it didn't work well with the site at all. Certainly we were not looking at a tear down but that also is not consistent with the ideas that we believe in terms of green and sustainable environments. We wanted to carry the character of the original house on to the, the addition. So, the addition is it's lower, smaller, and set back both from the front and back of the existing house. And let me interrupt for a second but if you'd like to either share your screen or have us do it you. I think it's helpful for you to refer to the plants. It's up to you. Sure. Share. Sorry, Mr. Dawson. We can, we can set that up if you want. Oh, do I have to do that or is there a. No, I did it when he first came on. I think I can do it. I, I just had to choose which screen share. I believe I am sharing a screen that looks like this has got to go away. We can use the rendering while I load something else. If you would like drawings. This is the rendering of the front side of the house to the right here. We're not, we're just seeing your Chrome window. You see drawings now. We don't know. Okay. Stop share. We'll try that again. Screen share. Do you see drawings now. Yep, we do. Oh, very good. Sorry about that. So to orient you in these drawings. The existing house is this square. Including the porch, which was. And our addition is this piece here. They're linked together by the kitchen dining room space. The second floor. Here's the existing stair coming up. The two existing bedrooms and the third bedroom is to the left here with two bathrooms. So still a very modest size house. Here's the existing house on the right. This is the building which faces the park. The existing house is now on the left and the addition is on the right. This is the end elevation, which is all essentially the addition. And the other end elevation, which is essentially the existing house because we're not adding anything on that side of the house. And if you want that can do the rendering. That's the front side of the house. And again, the existing house is on the right. The existing porch. And the addition is here on the left. So, um, Notice that the house is set back. The addition is set back from the existing on the front in the rendering. It's also set back in the back as well. When you see the drawing. Yeah, we're set back and away from the existing property line or the existing, um, building line in the back and the front. And again, I just reinforce, um, What. What Chris mentioned, what we, what we discussed with the building inspector is that. It's our understanding that we're here for the large addition classification and that we are essentially in completion. With the other aspects of the zoning code.  Could you explain a little bit about the parking, right? At this point, I think that there's zero parking now. And you're proposing to leave it at zero parking. Where. Where do you expect the parking actually to take place at this. For the house. Uh, there is no parking for this. House right now, except that this is relatively a dead end street. The street did not continue through because of some site grading issues as rock outcroppings and things of that nature. So the parking has been, um, immediately in front similar to parallel parking. And. So if we take a picture of the existing. The parking is here, which is essentially a dead end. It almost appears as a driveway for the house, although technically it is city land. I see. So it is the area that sort of looks like a parking space is actually on what would have been the right of way. If the road had been completed. The road would have been completed, but it was not. Okay. So I had thought that in looking at the plans that there were some plans for a gas line to be brought in. And wondered how that was consistent with the idea that this was going to be all electric. Or did I, my mistake in about that. No plans for a gas line. There is a wood stove identified in the house. There is a gas line. There is a gas line, but we're going to remove it. Oh, I see. Okay. I see. So the heating, heating air conditioning and I noticed hot water. We're all going to be produced by heat pump technology really basically, right? Yes. And you're going to have a high performance building envelope in order to. If not be passive house, at least, at least make it a highly efficient. Highly efficient building. Yes. We have a continuous exterior insulation as well as cavity insulation. Great. Is there any, do any members of the board have any questions or comments? Mr. Chair. Mr. Rickardelli. I was just wondering if the applicant can just explain the grading a little bit. It looks like it drops off. A good amount in the back. And maybe that, that basement as a walk out. Could you just explain what the situation is and if there's any, you know, retaining. That is needed as part of the construction. Sure. Essentially the, our addition is the retaining. You're right. There is a depression to the side of the house. And the addition is sitting in that sort of likely depression to area. Which then becomes the retaining of the earth that gets back filled in the front. So there's no retaining wall in the end. Result. We return to existing natural grade at the back. We modify the grades in the front slightly to basically essentially backfill the foundation, which then gives us a relatively level on.  Is able to accommodate the drainage of that. That new sloped hill. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Any other questions. Okay. Seeing not this. This is a public hearing. The public questions and comments will only be taken as they relate to the matter at hand and should be directed to the board for the purpose of informing their decision. Members of the public will be granted time to ask questions and make comments. Members of the public who wish to speak should digitally raise their hand using the button on the participants tab in the zoom application. Those calling in by phone, please dial star nine to indicate that you would like to speak. You'll be called upon by the meeting host and you'll be asked to give your name and address. And you will be given time for your questions and comments. All questions are to be addressed through the chair. And please remember to speak clearly. Once all public questions and comments have been addressed. Where the allocated time has ended. The public comment period will be closed. The board and staff will do our best to show documents that are being discussed. The application. Here it's now about five minutes to eight. And I would propose going to about. Quarter after 20 after if the people, if there's enough interest in doing that. And so then we'll, and then we'll see where we go from there. The first person I have on, on that shows up on my screen is Daniel Sheehan. Please. Would you introduce yourself? Say your name and address for the record. Sure. My name is Daniel Sheehan. And I live at 22 Longfellow Road. Around the corner from this home. And go ahead. Just go ahead. Okay. So I just thank you. I just want to comment that I did see these plans on Saturday. I think it's going to make a lovely addition to the neighbor. Excuse me to the neighborhood. And I look forward to hopefully seeing this all fulfilled. The questions that I had and I want to have a comment also as part of that question is what, what will happen with parking now? The, the, the past history of this lot is that the, the prior owners parked on the street. It seemed to me. That it was their property. I guess they treated it as their property. That section of the street is not usable. As a street. I think as the architect, Mr. Barry said. There's a trail that goes up a hill. You know, there were topographic reasons why they didn't continue the street. And they didn't continue the street. Is there possibilities of granting some kind of parking to this? And that would be, again, I think it'd be lovely for the neighborhood if that were possible. And that's all I have to say. Mr. Barry, do you want to address that? I think that's a decision for the town to make. I mean, it certainly would be lovely if they. Town made an official arrangement. The road might need a bit of repair. The owners might be willing to consider some kind of. Compensation. If, if they can have an agreement to have some. Parking designated to them. I think that's really what, what can the town potentially offer? What do they think they could do? I think that's a decision for the town to make. I mean, it certainly would be lovely if they. Town made an official arrangement. The road might need a bit of repair. I think it would be lovely if they could do. So the issue is that the, the area that we've been thinking about as the parking area that has been historically the parking area is not the applicant's property. It's the property of the town. Is that right? That's what we believe. The survey is certainly not on the survey. Whoever, whoever belongs to it's not you. Correct. That's what. I just want to say, this is Chris, the owner. Yeah, that's, that's our understanding. Yeah. I think that's a good point. And. It just needs to be clear for people who can't. See this site that it really is a dead end. It's just the dead end of the street. And so essentially we're parking in the dead end of the street. If there could be a special arrangement with the town. So that sort of. Formalize that would be great. And we would, you know, Be willing to discuss that with whoever. This is the. This is the. Mr. Shane, do you have some more anything else? Yeah, I just want to say that in terms of the parking, I, you know, I concur that that is, that is not a useful part of the street. And I think the town, if it's through the zoning board of appeals, or whoever would be done that, that is, that's not a useful area that I as a near, a neighbor get to use anyway. I mean, it doesn't serve a purpose. It doesn't serve a public purpose that I'm aware of. Thank you. Thank you. I didn't, by saying thank you, I didn't mean to cut you off. If you had something else you wanted to say, you're free to say it. No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm also, I, that's, that's the comments that I have. I appreciate it. The chance to speak. Thank you very much. Mr. Shane. Thank you. The next person on my list is Mr. Lee. Hi. This is actually Liz because Eli is driving. Okay. We live at 64 high hate. So the house that's right next to 60 high hate. And are primarily calling in because we just wanted to just give our support to Chris and Emily. They've been incredibly communicative across the last three years about what's been going on. We had all of our questions answered on Saturday alongside others as they kind of walked us through everything that was going to happen. So I'm very pleased to see that house turned into something lovely rather than the sort of, I guess, dump that it is now, because that's what it is. Sorry guys. And then I'll just want to second that, that ending that they're talking about is literally a dead end and nobody use it. And so I would also be firmly behind that turning it to something that they can use to park. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Anderson, thank you. Thank you. I think we've seen one, we've seen once or twice in the past. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Steve more Piedmont street. My first question to the applicant for you would be, is this a public or private way? Mr. Barry, you want to comment on that. And reference to what being a public or private way. This is 60 high. Is high haythrowed a public or privately. I'm not familiar, but maybe the owner knows. Well, it just just for information for the town of Arlington. There's two types of streets public ways which are town maintained in town on private ways which are not town maintained and actually a butter owned. It's complicated, but there are private ways in the town of Arlington. I wonder which this was. Chris Nielsen. Do you have a. Yeah, we don't know. We've assumed that it's a public way, but we don't actually know. You asked is high hate the public way. I mean, high hate is a public way. It's just, it's a road. Are you talking, you're talking about the connection between the between the two segments of. No, no, no, they basically the if I can intervene I hear just a second. The roads like Massachusetts Avenue are owned by the public there by some by one government organization or another I picked a bad example because that's not the town really but those are dedicated to public use they're owned by the public they're maintained by the public. But there are a lot of roads in town that were originally built by builders and in who did developments and so forth the roads have not been dedicated to public use.  So those are all it's all private property and not necessarily dedicated to public use. There's a third category that consists of private roads that in one way or another, an agreement has been made with the town for public maintenance but that is a procedure that's done by the select board and I think what Mr. Moore is driving at is, which kind of road this is because an applicant or an inner and a butters obligation with respect to various things may depend upon whether or not the butter is a butting a public street or there is a public abutting a private street even though the private street may be dedicated to public use the way private streets often are. Mr. Moore, do I have that right? Yes, yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much. That's completely the case and I would also thank him for his fine driving pun. The reason being that this question is about parking on the street. If it's a private way, this would not be an issue. If it's a public way, it's a public street and the town keeps the public ways clear and parking probably is not an arrangement the town would make even if it's a dead end and of no use. Moreover, if this is a paper street that occurs after the dead end part, butters cannot develop property or develop that section. Now this particular butter is not asking to do that so that's a non-issue but there may be a paper street that continues even though the grade would not allow the street to proceed. Anyway, I just the reason I brought up the question to do that was because of the parking issue in the town. I suggest the applicant investigate that because that will be key to resolving any parking. I would be surprised if the board would approve the project without parking on the site. We're doing a large addition here and it would make sense to add parking to the site since generally parking is something which properties do have depending on street parking is not a very viable solution, although it's a large issue. The second question is to do with the trees that are on the property where it's going to be developed. Are there significant trees that look like from the aerial maps? Are there significant tree cover? Are trees to be taken? I didn't see any trees on any of the property maps and I also don't see a tree plan, which should be required for this development. Chris, do you want to cut? We talked about that today. Do you want to answer that question? There's a lot of trees on the surrounding properties. There's a lot of trees in the park right against the house. On the property itself, there are a couple of small trees like there's a dogwood. I don't think any of them have a greater diameter than six inches. And other than that, it's shrubs. So for this project, we would be removing a lot of the shrubbery. We don't know yet about the specific trees. I think there's only two of them, but it's possible we might have to remove one of those trees. But they're both less than six inches in diameter, the trees that we'd be removing. There are, if you look at it like from a, you know, from whatever Google Maps or something, there's a lot of trees around this, but all those trees are its canopy from bigger trees on the adjoining properties and from the park. Mr. Chair, that's pretty hard to tell from the aerial that that's good news. Certainly if there are six inches or less, they're not they're not covered by the tree by law, even if they're in the setbacks. So that that's that's good news, but I believe you still will have to do a tree plan, because this is an additional larger than 750 square feet. That would be approved by the warden and done by a certified arborist. Just information for the client. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, can I just say one thing. Thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate the pointing those things out. I will mention that I did talk to a town arborist I didn't talk to the tree warden I talked to a town arborist early when we brought this property and he kind of sets the different trees and so some of what he described to you is based on what he told me and then I also had a commercial arborist come by and he basically said the same set of things. So, this is not, this is informed a bit by some information but we would. We do want to talk to the, to the, to the tree warden town tree warden about this before we proceed. Thanks. Yeah, excellent. Thank you. Thank you. The next person on our list is Nora Nottman. Hi, can you hear me? I can. I am. I also am a resident of Longfellow Road I live a few houses up the street. I'm seeing the plans for the first time today because I didn't make it over on Saturday. Full disclosure, I'm also an architect and I am passive house certified architect. And I want to also fully support the project. I think they've done a great job with the proposed addition and I'm really familiar with the site as I walk by it at least once a day walking my dog. I think the plans will sit very well within the neighborhood. I'd also like to speak to the issue of parking. I don't know if I'm able to share my screen, maybe not, but I'm looking right now at the satellite view and the town improvements that I do believe high hate this is a public way, but the town improvements that have been made to high hate stop before this property. So there's a kind of orphaned little bit of asphalt and pavement that's sort of at the end of the dry at the of the dead end. So I do think that should be examined as to whether it can be there's a way to formalize off street parking for the site. Which I think would be it would be useful to have it be defined formally and not be a kind of random and informal process from the town. I do also applaud sort of asking for the tree plan because I think it's always good to do that. When there's a larger project just to keep track of all these things because there's been some pretty egregious additions in the neighborhood with a lot of removal of trees and in this case I agree that there aren't major trees on the site so the tree would be any kind of a barrier to the project going forward but I think it's always good to have that information in the town's records as it's supposed to be. But I do think this is a really, really well defined and organized project and it will add to the quality of the street and also just generally help with the sometimes difficult drainage situations in that area when there's a big storm so I think it's great job you guys and I look forward to seeing it get built. Thank you very, very much. Our next speaker is Jane and if she's a French extraction it may be Auger or German may be Auger or it could be anything else too but Jane if you could correct my pronunciation I'd appreciate it and state your address for the record. Yes it's Auger you're the only person who's ever said it correctly on first notice so thank you. Thank you. We're at 37 Ottawa road so I'm an oblique neighbor across the paper road the high haith path, which is, you know, between our houses between upper and lower high haith and Ottawa. So I can see Chris's house from my window. I also like the plan very much. I'm happy to know that they're considering maintaining as much of the tree canopy as possible. I can speak to the fact that it is a public road and the town when they plow stops a little bit short of where you would park at 60 high haith on that little strip of asphalt. And that's directly adjacent to the entrance that everyone uses to go up the high haith path. It is a public road maintained by Arlington that little orphan asphalt that Laura spoke about is where high haith was 60 high haith people have always parked in the 25 years that I've been here so. And the town engineer told me that the, the path itself the paper street is owned by the butters which surprised me. And he said that the town allows the 60 high haith residents to park on that little strip of asphalt. So that's just a little historical note from the past and welcome to Chris and Emily. Hey, thank you very much. Mr. Shea. Mr. open your hand is up. I'm not sure whether you had something else you would want to add or whether you had just left it up. No, I'm sorry. I'll take it down. Okay, thank you. The next speaker I have on our list is Elizabeth Rollins. Hi, Elizabeth Rollins. I'm 47 Ottawa by I'm actually this and Emily's exact next door neighbor up the hill, even though it's a different street. I just wanted to say I'm excited to see the house grow and change. The trees that people are probably talking about are on my property and I've already had a good conversation with Chris about that about maintaining those trees. During this process. And so we'll keep up that conversation, and also agreeing with with Jane, who I've lived next door to for 15 years and did not have her name. People have been parking cars boats and RVs on the end of that street in for the 15 years that I've lived here. And it's never been an issue. It's certainly some precedent for just what has always happened and has always been accepted and okay. Anyway, welcome Chris and Emily. We're glad to have you. Thank you, Ms. Rollins. Is there anybody else who wishes to address this application. John. We'll now close the public comment period for this meeting and the board can discuss their findings and and a potential decision. The vote taken at this hearing will be preliminary until decision is approved by the board at a subsequent meeting and all votes will be conducted by roll call vote you those of you who are here from the We're witness to the process of the final approval of of a decision at the next meeting after a written decision is prepared. So just to provide a summary to begin with. This is a. This is a case that is is seeking a special permit for a large addition. The standards for that are set forth in the bylaw. Partly they are compliance with all of the provisions of section 3.3 that we normally apply for specials permits. We're particularly directed to look at the impacts on area on people who are butters and people who are very very near to the proposed project. Because as the case of this case, the proposal would otherwise apply comply with the bylaw and be doable by right. But for the fact that it is a large addition and subject to more detailed look the I'm not going to go through all of the different provisions in section 3.3. We've had a good deal of discussion, a large number of the butters who generally welcome this project and are implicitly suggesting to us that it's consistent with its consistent with the neighborhood. Certainly there's a considerable public benefit which I think that the board has in the past and should take into consideration in that it's highly energy efficient and if not net zero at least something that is very much aligned with the towns with the town schools. One of the areas that two areas that have required have had a lot of attention, one of which has to do with parking. Right now there are zero parking spaces on site. And, and as far as the record shows there has never been parking that is actually on site. The zoning bylaw requires one parking space. And this is on the basis of the record before us it is a prior non conforming use and the board and no new non conformity is being as being issued and it is not being exacerbated in any way. Or at least it doesn't appear to me that it that it is with respect to trees it is not unlikely that that there's not very much on the property that would raise a concern. But if it's the board's intention to approve this project it may well be useful for us to include a condition that would require the preparation of a tree plan. A consultation, formal consultation with the tree warden. Before clearing anything more from the site. That said that's that's subject to your differing on every single point but that sort of as a framework to get started is there anyone who wishes to any members of the board who wish to address this application. Mr Holy. I had a question. If I may. This, I was looking at the table that was filled up as a part of the application it says a number of stories. The building height is still two. But this is a walk out basement. And with the new addition. I do want to know the impact on the overall building height would the basement be still considered a half story or a full story and there's no average grade shown so it's hard to say whether it is a, you know, under 35 feet which I assume it is but it is not shown currently. So I'd like to understand was the walk out part always there. As a first question and because of this new addition has there been any change to establish if the basement is now considered a story in because the height seems to be below four foot six inches the ceiling of the basement seems to be below four foot six inches. Yes, I take that one. Yes. Yes. Mr Barry existing basement is not quite a walk out it actually requires you to step up in order to get out. And we have done the calculation. We have done the qualifications to be considered a story and we don't meet the qualification as a story. We're under that requirement. So we see this as a two story house. Mr Holy, am I right in recalling that the requirement is this, this is the ceiling being above four, four feet six inches above the average building height is that what the requirement is I don't have the zoning ordinance. Yeah, yeah, a basement shall be deemed a story when it's ceiling is four feet six inches or more above the finished grade. Because there was no finished grade. I was unsure of if it met or not. zoning are referring to it's under the definitions. Yeah, that's the definition. Yeah, we were using we were using that we were looking at it. Yep. Sorry, I'm scrolling for this. I think it's the definition of a story isn't it. It's on page 26. There's also a whole diagram how it show how it how it's calculated we did that we did the calculation. Yes. Yeah, it's in the first part of the illustration. It's 222. Page 22. Chris. Well, it was to dash 22. It would be in the definition part. There we go. Yeah. Yeah, we were using this and we're we're in we're safe on both of these categories actually the diagram is quite similar to our situation. This would be the front at high hate. This would be in the back are the floor is lower than the grade and when you do these calculations, our numbers are below the requirements. So, is this been a discussion between you or the applicant and ISD have they ever suggested that that the basement should count as a story. I believe Chris has had some conversations with the building inspector. I've not specifically had any conversation with him regarding this. No, it's just being a story. So I wonder if that conversation if that subject has come up with ISD. You're talking about the building inspector. No, I don't come up with the building inspector. So the building inspector is never has not brought this up with with you in any event right. No. And he has he has reviewed the drawings as part of as part of getting to this point and helping us understand the zoning requirements he didn't review the drawings and did not bring this up as an issue. Now you've done a similar calculation I take it on the not just the existing house but on the house with the addition is that correct. Yes, and those calculations are similar to the ones that you've just described. So the grade point at the front the grade point at the back, the midpoint according to the diagram, and we're less than we're here I can zoom in for you. Three foot 11, and it has to be less than half of the eight foot five. And that the halfway is the average grade, because that's the average grade, because the average grade has a different definition on how that should be. The definition on how that is calculated. I believe that's average grade yes. And similarly, the ceiling in the basement is not more than four feet six inches above the average grade is that correct. Correct, that's what that's where grade section that's the ceiling of the space is less than four feet six above the average grade. Is this is the satisfactory to you or would you like to press for more information. No it is but this exhibit was not part of the was submitted. So, with the chair's permission with this be released to the be to the board, not to review it but as a part of the exhibits. Yes. Mr Barry I wondered if if you could be so kind as to submit the point you've shown us today. For the record, as well so that later on when somebody tries to figure out what in the world we did. They'll be able to see something that will help them get to that. And Joe we submit that through, is there a, is there an email address or how does that get you should submit that to ZBA at town at Arlington was a town that Arlington dot. Miss Ralston, but save me here I'm getting all of my, all the parts of the email address all confused. Okay, Chris has it I think that may dot us I think but anyway we know it. Oh, good. Okay, good. Thank you. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, Mr. Holly continue. Mr. There was one other thing is that I think when the average grade is shown in this section that is on the screen. I think we should also have the same noted on all the elevations just to be clear because I'm not that because just to be clear that the average grade at the height and everything is met. All the zoning pilots. Okay, if that can readily be done, I am we're probably going to act tonight. One way or the other application so this is largely a matter of clarifying the record. Sure. So, you have a more complicated version of these drawings but you'd like me to add these obviously don't show that average grade here would be the average grade in this particular drawing. And then in this particular drawing. Yeah, if you could just. Right. Right. I don't want to impose the application to additional expense to do anymore. If you could just sort of indicate the information that Mr. Holy is is talking about so that it's readily apparent in the record. We see it now. And that's what we'll act on, but the record will go into the file and later people will wanting will want to know what we see and that this will help them figure it out. Okay. We'll add this to these particular drawings you see here on the screen is that acceptable. That would be fine. You should do this in whatever way is most convenient for the applicant as long as the information is conveyed. Okay. Thank you. Excellent. Okay, is there any other discussion of the application. Mr. Chair. Miss Hoffman. Just just a quick comment. And this is to the applicants just because they mentioned a particular interest in decarbonization. If I may, please go forward. I certainly applaud the efforts around. Energy efficiency. And I just wanted to note that the other aspects of it, which you probably been thinking about, because you noted the importance of saving the structure is the embodied carbon of the material selection. So when you get to the time or finalizing the selections, you know, some of the most significant ones to consider are the. Deciding the product you choose for the installation and the frame material. So if you haven't already thought about that, that's just a little recommendation to you. But otherwise, I applaud the application. Thank you. We actually, I, we don't, we do know a little, we have learned a little bit about that. And we know that it's a significant consideration. And yeah, we will try to keep our eye on that part too. It's a, it's a tough one actually, but to at least reduce the embodied carbon. Thank you. Okay, so bear with me here while I re, re trigger my screen so that I can see you all again. So, because there are there any other comments or questions on the board on the application. The board is is inclined to approve the application it will of course wish to impose the standard conditions that are imposed on basically all special permit grants. And since this is the first case of the night I can read those into the record. It will be easier if I slightly expand. The first one is the plans and specifications approved by the board for the special permit shall be the finals plans and specifications submitted to the building inspector of the town of Arlington in connection with this application for zoning relief. There shall be no deviation during construction from approved plans and specifications without the express written approval of the Arlington Board of Appeals. The second condition number two is the building inspector is here by notice notified that he is to monitor the site and should proceed with appropriate enforcement procedures at any time we determines that violations are present. The building inspector shall proceed under section 3.1 of the zoning bylaw and under the provisions of chapter 40 section 21 D of the Massachusetts general laws and Institute non criminal complaints if necessary. The building inspector may also approve an Institute appropriate criminal action also in accordance with section 3.1 and standard condition number three is the board shall maintain continuing jurisdiction with respect to this special permit grant. First of the discussion. We've also discussed having a tree plan and the chair would suggest the positive board consider a fourth app fourth condition to the effect that the applicant shall prepare a tree plan and consult in consultation with the tree warden prior to the issuance of final permit building permits in this case. So is this are there any other conditions that any of the app that anyone wishes to suggest anyone have any questions or amendments or opposition to any of the four that that I just indicated. Okay, hearing now hearing none the chair will would accept a motion. Motion to approve the application. Mr chairman, Mr Dupont. So I would move that the application for the special permit under section 5.4 point to be six be approved as presented subject to the three standard conditions which the chair read into the record. And the additional condition that the applicant formulate a tree plan and consultation with the tree warden in advance of the issuance of the building permit. So second. Second second. The seconded by Mr rigor deli. Okay, we'll take a roll call vote. Mr Dupont. I Mr holy. Hi. Mr rigor deli. Hi. Miss Hoffman. Hi. Mr Leblanc. Hi. Mr Klein is not here and passes unanimously. So Mr Nielsen congratulations and thank you very much for working with us tonight on the application. Thank you and thank all of you for your, you know, your scrutiny and your, and your, and your comments and suggestions. We really appreciate it. Good luck. Thank you so much for your help. I will stop sharing. Yeah. Oversharing. It could become a background. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just encouraging you the, the. The issues with three. We did. We're not just being negligent and not addressing the issues relating to parking. Those are matters under the discretion of the select board. And we would really have no ability to. Yeah. I think it seems to be a substantial amount of interest into formalizing and, and regulating the situation that exists in the sort of transition between public and private that appears to exist on, on the street. And I encourage you to contact members of the select board to discuss. What might be appropriately done here, given the unique history of the site. And that's interpreted as a suggestion for the client to approach the select board. Oh yes, it's not a requirement. It's just that if you want to proceed along that line, we're not the body that can give you relief. They are. And under the circumstances, they may be willing to consider things that wouldn't generally be considered just because, because of both the public private aspect of hate of the road and the long history of the way in which it has done. And I encourage you to join with your neighbors in doing that too. It's, it's, it's a thing that will affect all of you. Thank you so much. Okay, so we've done our first case tonight. The second one is 40 to 62 Magnolia street. And I'm wondering who will be the primary presenter on, on this one. Good evening. My name is Brett character. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I will be point of contact, but the owners are on the phone. I believe I have David staff who is at 60 Magnolia and all of them at 62 Magnolia. And you can address a question to them, but I believe this is a much smaller scale project than the previous one. So we. Feel free to just direct them to me. And if I need their help, I will chime in. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.  I need to be given access. Ms. Walston is, does Mr. Karker have access. Also. Thank you. All right. Can everybody see that? At this point, I, I cannot. So you cannot see anything yet. Well, I see all of our friendly faces, but I'm not sure if we're going to be able to do that. That's good. Okay. So forgive my amateur drawings in reference to. What the building typically accepts when we're building a deck of, or a porch of this nature. This is, we'll pass building, building paperwork. And most instances, since this one is requiring a special permit. In scope of the project, basically what we would be doing is we'll be demolished in existing entryway that currently has a. A small roof above and access simply as an entryway alone. There's not much shared room space for two families with kids to utilize the space. It essentially just as a glorified rain cover for their mailboxes. So the current proposal is to. Expand that footprint on the front of the house. To a two-story porch that would allow for both families to have access and seating arrangements for the exterior. And that would allow for both families to have access and seating. And that would allow for both families to have access and seating. Facing the Magnolia side of the street. Currently the only exterior use of the house. Has no back porch. It is just a backyard that has a shared space. So this would give them both private space. And accessibility from their units to be able to utilize seating outside. And also would have enhanced curb appeal. Currently the neighborhood has, if I'm. Forgive my numbers to be exactly right, but I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. The houses have this almost exact proposal in terms of design. Double-decker porch with a second unit having access from upstairs and the first unit having shared space down below. In conjunction with the front porch, we plan to do the exterior siding. So we were planning on doing the porch first so that it was more conducive to the overall plans for the house. So the current scope. And the plan is the same. The plan is the same. The plan is the same. The plan is the same. The plan is the same. The plan is out. Outdated aluminum. And while my, it might be a beautiful magenta color. It's time to update to a more. Standard siding. So. In conjunction with that, this plan. The porch was needed to be approved prior to the siding. Does anybody have any questions on that? So thank you. So is it fair to say that this porch extends across the whole facade of the house now? Yeah, so I'm sorry, my, not sure if my, my. Shared screen somehow got spliced. But if you see on the left of this, so right now that's the, I don't know what happened with my, my document, but it was not, it was originally just. Multiple single pages where you would see these. So I'm not sure how they got spliced together, but on the figure. So on the left side of the plot plan, you can see the front porch existing. On the left side of the plot plan. And on the right side of the plot plan. With the setbacks and you can see the basic new deck addition on the side is around 70 square feet to the lower porch. It would stay in the same setback requirements for both the driveway side. And the neighbor's side, as well as the front of house, it would just add the extra space on the bottom floor as well as the secondary. Second floor. Exit for the, for the set. Are there any, are there, do any of the members of the board have questions or comments. For this time. Mr. Chair. Mr. LeBlanc. I guess one question I have is maybe, maybe for you more is I'm just curious as to why we're getting this is in progress. Just looking through the application is no like specific sections being sought for relief. So I'm just going to go through the slide. I'm just going to go through the slide. I'm just going to go through the slide. So I'm just going to go through the slide. I'm just going to go through the slide. Hopefully just get a little clarification on that for my. So it's my understanding that what is going on here. And it's based on a conversation with ISD. Is that. Is that. The. Forge currently extends into the front yard. And so it's already a prior, a pre-existing nonconforming use. So what the applicant is seeking to do is to basically extended along the same line. To cover the side of the house. Leaving aside the second story, which is a little different. It's similar to the projections in the front yards that we often have, but here. We're dealing with both the two-story porch. And looking at it from the point of view of, of an extension of a nonconforming use. So under the circumstances, the rules that will apply to this case will be the rules that are always applied to a section six determination, which is, or ultimately whether this is substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing nonconformity. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you. I do have other, a couple of the comments on this. Please proceed. So I'm just curious what the plan is for the infill at the base of the porch. I know part of it is that existing concrete foundation, but the other part that's kind of the new addition part, what that plan is for them. Well, it's only two holes. So both of those would be hauled off site. The infills. For the, the. For the porch where it's above grade, you know, where it meets grade. So the entire, the entire front part of the facade will, will be covered in a lattice or design slat design, depending on what we end up doing, that was kind of undecided. So we would be presenting them with whatever lattice design to, to enclose the porch, but yes, it would be completely enclosed. Okay. And then my other copy was the gate. Sorry. Okay. Yep. And then my other comment is, is the plan also to wrap these columns and something either be like an exact material or, or other to, to cover up the kind of pressure treated that it's going to be. Kind of. Example images you provided. Yes. So preliminary designs are to do a, a sec wrap. It could potentially. Change to a structural column, similar to HB and G design, but that the permacast concrete column as you, as you would see, but we have not yet fully disclosed on all of it. So these are just the, you know, framing design and how we would build the porch. And then the overall finish will be wrapped in completely with PVC or some sort of material to protect the wood longterm. That's all I had. Are there any other comments? Questions. Mr. Mr. Richard. Just, just two questions. Well, the, are the stairs being reconstructed as part of this or is it just the, the porch? It is the stairs reconstructed, but stairs are not currently, um, in the bylaws, typically as part of the structure. It's typically omitted. So that's, that's my understanding. I would just be rebuilding the porch stairs completely based on the rise and run required based on the height of the new deck, which would be very similar, but they're current concrete steps. So they would be demoed and built with new, uh, staircase with, uh, pressure treated lumber and. Okay. Yeah, no, I'm not suggesting that we're going to regulate them. I'm just, just understanding the scope. And then, um, for the, for the new, um, second level porch areas, uh, providing gutters and downspouts, or is it how's the drainage working from the, the new roof? Yeah. So we have an underlayment EPDM rubber roof liner that will cover the bottom with, uh, sleepers to keep the profile low so that the exiting of the house can be, um, you know, step out of the porch and then that will drain on a quarter inch pitch per foot to a gutter on the front that will then drain into the, uh, left side of the yard that will still be, um, you know, it's open grass there. The other part of the house will be where the trash cans go. So we will be going the opposite direction. Okay. So we'll go, it'll go on the driveway. It'll go into the, it'll go on the driveway side, but into the grass. Got it. Great. Thank you. Anything further? Okay. This is a public hearing. I read out the rules of the previous public hearing or the advice to give. They're all the same. Uh, and this one. So I wonder if there's anyone who was here to address this application. Oh, seeing none. Going once going twice. Okay. We'll close the public hearing and, uh, turn to the board for any future comment. If we, uh, just to indicate to the board, I indicated earlier what the rules would be and to summarize, uh, this is sort of a, uh, when he hesitates to say a garden variety proposal for a, uh, for a porch, as we've seen often, uh, an effort to move the porch, uh, to the, to the, uh, roof. The board is generally thought of that as a favorable thing from a design point of view. Uh, and has generally thought that was compliant with the residential, uh, design, uh, uh, uh, guidelines here. It's a little different because it's really an extending a pre-existing nonconforming use in terms of its, its extension into the front yard. Uh, and also because we don't usually see it as a design point of view. Um, and also because we don't usually see porches, uh, extended in this way that covered most stories. The underlying rule is, is, uh, is from, comes from section six of the, uh, of the, uh, zoning enabling act and, uh, section 8.1.3 B of our zoning bylaw. Uh, and that the zoning, uh, that we may approve this if we find that, uh, the, uh, extension of the nonconformity does not substantially, uh, uh, aggravate the adverse effect of the existing nonconformity. Uh, and we typically do that by applying the special, uh, the special exception criteria that we, uh, refer to in the last case. Um, if it's the board's, uh, uh, intention to approve the application, you would want to do that presumably with the three standard conditions that we've already discussed. Uh, and I wonder if anyone else, if anyone has any additional discussion, uh, conditions that they think would be appropriate in this case. Okay. Seeing none, the chair will entertain a motion. Um, Mr chairman, I was trying to get my speaker on. I did actually just for clarification. So this special permit is actually requested under 5.3.9. A, so for projections into the yard, I just had it up a moment ago. And, um, so our, is it your. Thinking that we are granting both the special permit for the extension into the minimum yard under 5.3.9 B. Um, or excuse me, is it a or B. I think it's a, as well as the, uh, 8.1.3 B, uh, finding that it is not more detrimental. So is it a combination of the two is really my question. I'm not sure that it's necessary if, if you grant the, if. See. The. I believe that to be the case that if it were just done as an extension of a nonconforming use. Uh, that it would. It would sort of absorb the other because the relief that would be griffon would be as extensive and more extensive. Uh, then you could do under, uh, the projections into the minimum yard. Okay. But I, I suppose that. And there's the statutory requirements are slightly different. So without sort of digging through the bylaw, I'm not sure whether it all works the same. Uh, but I'm, I trust that a permit that allows the, the application as the extension of a prior nonconforming use would. Uh, would sort of trump the need for any further. For any further special relief from us. Uh, that would make sense to me as well. So, um, So then if I may, I would make a motion that the application. Uh, be approved. Uh, under 8.1.3 B of the zoning bylaw where we have found that the. Change will not be more or substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood. And that we impose the three standard conditions, which the chair read into the record in the prior case. And I can't think of any other conditions. So that's my motion. Thank you, Mr. Dupont. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Mr. Holy. Uh, we'll do a roll call vote. Uh, Mr. Dupont. I. Uh, Mr. Holy. Aye. Mr. Rickard alley. Aye. Miss Hoffman. Aye. Mr. LeBlanc. Aye. Mr. Klein isn't here in the chair votes. I. Uh, and so the motion is granted. So thank you very much. I, I appreciate, uh, Mr. Karaker, your, your presentation and, uh, and good luck with it. Thank you guys. Have a great night. Thank you. Okay. Our next, the next case we have, uh, coming up is, uh, 14 Oakland Avenue. Uh, and I believe that the applicant in this case. Is represented by, uh, by Mr. Nessie. I am. Good evening. Are we ready? Uh, Yes. Please, please go forward. Thank you. Thank you. I represent Kathy. And her husband, David. And they live at 14 Oakland. With their two children. What they're looking to do is to put an addition. On their home. Uh, and, uh, we have submitted plans to the. Uh, uh, Zoning board and Vue Alexander. Is going to show you those. Uh, Uh, screen now that might be a good too. Uh, uh, is, uh, is, uh, he's allowed to do that. One of the, uh, images I want to be shown. Is the difference in elevation. From the right side of the property. Down to the, uh, uh, left side, the lower side of the property. Uh, the, there is a significant difference. In elevation. And, uh, I believe a line has been drawn. To show, uh, what that, uh, drop in elevation is. That makes the lot. Uh, different than some other lots. Uh, in the neighborhood. Uh, with respect to making it. Uh, in my view. Unique. That's the reason why I have filed for both a variance. And a special permit. Uh, one of the, uh, items that you'll see on the. Dimensional form is that. We are saying that we are going to have. Three stories. Well, we, we're not going to really have three stories. Because that new space. Is going to be devoted to. Mechanical. And utilities. And if you go to the bylaw. At section 5.3. Point. Two, two. Uh, uh, further subsection B. Further subsection two. Uh, basement areas. Devoted exclusively to mechanical. Uses. Accessory to the operation of the building. Are not included. In the calculation of growth. For area. So our position is. Uh, that, uh, in fact, uh, we come out of that. Uh, three story. Of calculation because of that. What we're planning on doing is. Moving. The mechanicals. And the utilities. In, uh, the, uh, uh, other portions of the building. Into the new space. So the new space, uh, would contain. The boiler. So we're going to be doing a new, uh, uh, Air conditioning setup in the building right now. The air conditioning is window air conditioning. Uh, and, uh, David, the husband. Works from the home. So during the summer months. Uh, it's a fairly humid. And fairly difficult to work from home. So we're going to move the mechanicals into that space. So that space would be used. Uh, for mechanical. Uh, and utility. Uh, we, the plan submitted. Also shows some unfinished space. That would be generated. That unfinished space would remain. Unfinished space. And if that's what the board. Uh, indicates in their findings. Then it would be unfinished space. Uh, the, uh, We were asking, uh, for the relief. Uh, uh, probably under the, uh, the variance, uh, portion. And not the special permit portion. But I did file for both. Uh, just to open the door for both. Uh, we, uh, if we're talking about. Uh, a variance. We know that, uh, what we need to show. Is we need to show hardship relating to the land. Okay. And I'm going to argue and suggest to the members of the. Uh, board. That the hardship relating to the land. Is the difference in elevation. From one portion of the property down to the other. Uh, I mentioned in my, uh, application that I filed. Uh, that the property. Uh, has unusual character rickson's primarily. A difference in elevation. At the property, which demonstrates that constructing. In addition at the rear on the current first floor. And second floor level. Would necessitate a walkout basement. Uh, we're trying to. Uh, uh, avoid that get around that. You'd get some additional space. Uh, for the family. Uh, the additional space that would free up. In the already existing. Uh, portion of the building. Will allow more room for the two young children. Of, uh, the homeowners. To have room to play. Which they do not really have. Now. So we're asking for. Uh, that. Uh, Uh, Relief from the board. I'd like to go through the plans with you to show you what we're proposing. And I'd like to come back on after he does that. And have a few more things to say. Mr. And Nancy, could I, Mr. And Nancy, could I just. I don't want to interrupt, but I, but it would be useful for me to raise this now. Before Mr. Alexander shows, uh, the screens. So let me just assume for a moment. That, uh, In your application, the, in the application, it indicates that the existing house. Had is two stories. Uh, and the house with the addition would be three.  If the existing house had three stories. Uh, In other words, if the foundation, the average grade were such that the basement in that, uh, In that part of the house, uh, Was, was, uh, Uh, could be, was a separate story. Then you'd be taking a three story house. And extending the, what I assume would be an existing nonconformity. Uh, And the reason I raised this is because just at its last meeting, the board had two similar cases, one of which, uh, it approved when it did not, when the change did not involve a, uh, introduction of a new nonconformity. Um, and in the other was, we just heard today as we, uh, adopted the decision in the beginning, uh, rejected the argument that the, that, uh, sharp downgrade, uh, downward slope, such as you're having here, uh, qualified as a, uh, uh, something as a situation in which the topology, uh, Uh, uh, uh, introduced the, the hardship. Um, so obviously, as you know, the, it's a lot easier to prevail on a special permit. And I was wondering, uh, if you could gather your thoughts and think about this later, but, uh, in particular, if Mr Alexander could discuss, uh, whether, uh, the argument, it seems counterintuitive, but in some ways you're better off. If the existing house is three stories, then it's two stories. And that's a matter of arithmetic, of course. Uh, but it would be useful to hear your views on that. No question about it. Uh, Can I have food jumping now? Please do. Yes, please. Yes. Uh, this is well, Alexander. Thank you for giving us an opportunity for presenting this to you. Can you see my screen? Yes. It's kind of small. If you could make it a little bigger and be helpful, but. Otherwise we can do our best. Right. So, the, so the existing house is, you know, it's a, uh, two weeks. It's two story. Colonial. Uh, house. It has a hip roof shingle style. It's, it's well kept by the owner. And it's a very modest house. Um, so the, the north side of the houses, if you look at the living room. And on top of the page to the north side of the house, the, uh, the property drops off pretty dramatically is from, from the front of the house to the back of the house is about nine feet. And, uh, I think the whole lot originally was very, you know, it just drops off. And when the, when the development of this prop, uh, this area got built in, I think they fill in, uh, around the property. Uh, the, uh, around the dining room, the injury and create a, uh, a garage driving garage down into the basement. So half of the property, I think is, um, from the, from the north to the northeast is exposed in terms of, uh, the basement. Right. And, and the other half is cover by, uh, uh, finished grades. So it's the average grade right now. I think if we were to, to do the average grade, so it's still very close or couldn't, can maintain a two story home. For the residential home. So the, the, the, the, the, the, for the residential home. Um, when we're, when the owner proposed to add to this prop, uh, add to this home, you know, they're proposing to add, uh, a 19 by 18, uh, a family room off the first floor and a primary suite off the second floor and extend that to the back of the house. Um, you know that. So my jar, all of the addition right now is, uh, at above the basement level, right? So, so the, all three sides of the addition is, is, uh, at the basement level was exposed to, to above grade, finished grade in the back of the house. Um, you know, the, the addition, the reason we're, we wanted to extend the bearing walls down to the basement level to support it on top of a new foundation. Instead of having, uh, uh, a pulse and beams, uh, exposed, uh, supporting the two structure above. So that was kind of the, the, the methods and means of which we wanted to, uh, support the two structure. Uh, and this is the first floor, and that's, and that's the second floor primary bedroom. So this all, so the, the, the new structure is based on extension, the existing colonial house with the hip roof and the details and, and the, uh, the wood shingles and, and the windows, uh, detail. So it'll, it'll fit right in, uh, with what's there. And, you know, visually, uh, it, it will be integrated into the details and, and the style of the house. And the first in the basement level, uh, there's a one car garage that not being used. Um, and there is a unfinished basement with mechanical space and storage space. So the, the new addition, uh, that we're projecting the bare walls down to the new foundation below, um, create a new one story basement. That we're proposing to, uh, we're proposing to, you know, relocate all the mechanicals into this unfinished, uh, basement in, uh, proposing to rework, um, or leave the existing unfinished basement where it is. If you look at the front elevation, um, so you can see the, the west and south side of the house is basically was filled in. I'm assuming when, when it did its construction and kept the, uh, the great, uh, naturally from front to back to on the north side of the house where they can, where they use it as a garage and a walkout basement. And this is the south side of the house where right now there's a side entry to the house. And there's the homeowner did a really nice job with landscape steps, uh, transitioning down to the existing, uh, patio that, uh, the, uh, basement is walking out onto. And this, this is the, the addition that we're proposing to project into the back of the house, backyard. And look in the back of the house, uh, this is the existing, uh, elevation of what's there. There's the window into the basement and there's the finished gray, the patio is, uh, a little bit above the finished, finished basement floor. We step down into, uh, uh, the basement level. And this, this elevation, it shows you the, the natural grading of the site. How it just, you know, it drops out pretty dramatically from the front of the street to the back of the house. And it keeps going to the, to the back of the lots, you know, another drop, another five, six feet. So it's, and that's pretty much, you know, it's a very simple design, very simple layout. Um, I just, we're, we're at, we're dealing with the existing grades and the con, the contours of the site. So, Mr. Alexander, when you're just out there looking at it, it looks pretty similar to the grades that exists, um, both up the street and down the street. Uh, is the topography significantly different here than it is on those, on those neighboring properties? Um, they, no, they're, they're pretty much the same. But the neighboring properties, they're, they're, they're larger homes and they're, they're, they added, um, they all have these retaining walls, right? That, that transition from, from property to property, uh, like the, the house on the south side has a, there's this large retaining walls where it becomes like a garage and they transition down, uh, to, to their, their back to property and, and the house on the north side is, it's the same as a large, their larger homes and they're, they, they, uh, extended way, you know, just further back than this house and they all have these retaining wall that kind of holds up the, uh, the process and kept this existing gray where it is. It was like a sandwich between, uh, two larger homes. Great. Could I ask you on the beginning, on the house that we currently have before the addition, have you done any calculations to determine whether the ceiling is four and a half feet above the average finished grade? I mean, have you actually calculated that? Yeah. So right now the, uh, the finished floor, there's four, there's four and a half feet from the basement floor. Uh, let me just be clear about this. I want to pretend now that the addition hasn't been built, isn't proposed. And I just want to focus on, on the existing building as it is with the existing finished grade as it is. And, and I would like to know whether or not you've done a calculation on just that part. Mr. Hamlin. Yes, sir. I'm the owner. Um, Dave and actually we have a comment to say about that because we've had, um, survey done by Rover survey. Um, and then Michelle, when that he had done, when we had got property stuff, it said it was the two stories. But when we asked them to do calculations as Rick Ballerelli had recommended for us to do from the topography and the heights of the house and the basement and all that stuff, they had actually said that our basement would be a third story because it, it the height requirement isn't meant for to just be the basement. So it actually, according to the survey is actually written as being a third story. I'm the most updated plot plan. Yeah. So I don't know if that helps us. Find out if Voo has done the calculations, Kathy, have you done the calculations, Voo? Uh, I've. Well, my calculation is, is from the. Finish from the rough floor joys. Is four foot one. To the four foot six of the grades. Of the basement floor. I guess just to maybe help clarify. What we're trying to get at is. The basement is considered a story when it's four and a half feet from the finish ceiling to the average grade. So if we knew what the average, if we had a diagram on like this elevation, for example, if what that average grade was. And what that dimension was to the average grade. From the finish ceiling of the basement. That's the dimension that we're. Yeah. Trying to drive that to. To get to this point of is the basement a story. And so on and so forth. So, because that's, I think a little backwards at the moment. The dimension should be from the ceiling to the average grade. Right. So the. So the existing average grade of the. From the North side, the extreme side, right? It is. That's for the site. Yes. So it is almost eight feet plus and minus. The average grade right right in the middle of the house. To the other side of the. Basement structure. It's unfinished. So it's, you know, it's seven. timing. And it's radion seven. Sealing height. So it's going to take over and seven. Eleven almost eight feet. So that's the average is four feet. Right. So the average see. The average ceiling height is four feet above the average. Yes. And that's the, that's the, that's the. The worst case scenario. And then the back, where it's a walkout. comes up and the patio comes up to the basement floor. If you count that as finished gray around the house. Because there is a transitional retaining wall steps patio that gets you down to the back of the house. The walkout basement. Mr. Naseed you want. Well, I mean I. You mentioned that you had a case last week. That are not the last hearing. That I was unaware. Was that voted favorably. Mr. Hanley. The, the, the variance was, was denied. It was denied. The variance was denied on the basis of the first of the variance criteria, whereas the special permit that was based on a section six finding was granted. All right. The. Perhaps I need to make a transition then. I would like to be able to track. From seeking a variance. Okay. To seeking a special permit. And I'd like to be able to track. What occurred in that case. Unfortunately, I was not. On the zoom. So I didn't hear the case. And I haven't seen the case since. Since that last hearing. And I think it's, it's much more favorable to a homeowner. To apply and obtain a special permit. Then would be the case with a variance. You mentioned yourself. Just now. The other other houses. On Oakland have. That are similar to. This particular house in terms of the drop in grade. And I suppose there are. And one of the. Issues with respect to. Granting a variance, of course, is. That you need to show that. Your situation is unique. And. Vu has made some arguments. As to why our situation may be unique. With respect to larger houses. Retaining walls and the light. But if I could proceed on the basis of. A special permit. That would make it much easier for my clients. I'm throwing that out there without having seen that, that case of a month or so ago. The, well, let me just say this. The, we haven't done a public hearing yet. So we probably ought to do that. But given the, I mean, where we are right now is that. I, I, I would say that in special services believes the. That both the addition and the. Or both the house with the addition and the house. The existing house. Would be three stories based on, on their views as, as the owners have, have indicated. We've been sort of orally through some calculations here, which. Not really. But I do see some disadvantages and disadvantages of things that are done here, but our ability to understand what this was all about on the record would probably be improved by. You're having an opportunity to. You know, to follow this path more and to assemble what it is. And maybe to get together with ISD and see if you can identify where it is you agree. To see. That's the, that's the application that's focused on this other possibility that hasn't been before us yet. That'll also give you a chance to look at the two cases that we had last week. Where or last month, which, which sort of provide a brace and, and into illustrate the difference between going for a variance in this kind of situation. And going for a special or a section six finding. So we'd be perfectly happy if you wanted to do that. I just said isn't all anybody might say about this and there is the public to be heard, and this is a public hearing so we probably should get through any other questions that the board may have and go to the public hearing and then we can return to this question then if that's all right with you. That's fine. Yep. Mr. German. Mr. Dupont. As I am not an architect it's not as easy for me to look at these plans and be able to sort of picture what the average finished grade is. If in fact, it's the applicant's position that they don't believe that the basement counts as a story. We would want or I would want to have something from an engineer and architect to surveyor to show exactly what the calculations are to demonstrate that under the definitions of both basement and the story and the bylaw that you were not a story I think at this point as Mr. Henland suggested, instructional services believes that the basement is a story. And, and so I again, you know would reiterate what others have said about the, you know properties in the surrounding area I go up and down Oakland probably two to three times a day. So I'm familiar with the incline and I think both across the street as well as on the same side of the street, you have similar topography. And so I think that what Mr sat Hanlon had said in the very beginning which is, you know, there's a question I suppose and going for a variance where you're trying to distinguish your property as being unique as compared to the others. That might be a bit different than if you were coming in and saying that you know we do have three stories and we're looking to extend the non conformity and I'm not trying to put. So that's, that's what I'd like to focus on. And so, and Mr. Nessie I would just say that the decision was really the one we voted on tonight, which is 20 Martin Street so if you wanted to take that down that's really what you're, I think what you're looking at. The other one is I recall Roger the, the, the one we granted which again I think the two of them are most usefully looked at together because they show, they show the yin and the yang of the thing was, I believe 48 Oakland wasn't it. That may well be a little bit of a failure memory here but that sounds right. Mr. Wilson, could you remind do you having to know that off your hand that we don't need to do this I can I can do this offline and give and give Mr. Nessie the references. Yeah, I'd appreciate that I think the, that is the way I want to proceed at this point. Kathy, I haven't talked with you about that, but we're getting good advice and suggestions from the members of the board. And I'd like to follow up on that and see if we can come up with a plan that basically can pass muster. Are you in agreement with that. Kathy. Yes, we are. Thank you. Public hearing, if there's no more questions or comments from the board, the rules for public hearing are the same as they were in the last two cases and is there anyone here who wishes to address this application. Mr. Moore. Yes, thank you Mr. Speedmore Piedmont Street. Do you refresh my memory as to the situation in which the planning board develops a memo to advise the ZBA on a particular application. Well, this is a this is not entirely routine. In recent times, the planning. This is one of the things that is a matter of practice they have done in the past. They have been doing it less often recently in part because they're very short handed and there's a lot of other things that are that was always just a practice. There's no requirement to have a memorandum from the planning board, although we consider them helpful. When the planning board has an opportunity to do them but they have not had the personnel, really for the last couple of weeks to be or last several meetings to be able to to provide the memoranda that they usually do. So you're understanding that they're going to recommence that process when they become less short handed. I have I don't know because it's not well I do not have an understanding on that one way or the other. Okay, the only reason I bring it up is in the past when I've reviewed various applications of this type and others, I found that myself helpful as a private citizen and I was surprised to see them not existing lately and I would hope that they would return because I think that's a particularly good use of the planning board. Anyway, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mark. Is there any, is anyone else here to address this application. Okay, so going once twice. Public hearing is closed. We'll turn to the, I guess, Mr. Nessie, this is the time when if you would like to request a continuance. This would be appropriate time to do that. I would like to do that to the next meeting of the zoning one. So the next meeting to the zoning board is for a comprehensive permit. And I know that this is a painful because in the summer, we don't have a, I mean, everything goes slower but the next meeting is July 11 that's comprehensive permit for 10 sunny side. And Ms. Ralston, when is the next meeting for regular cases after that. I do have some people on for the 27. All right. Okay, the 27th, it would then be the appropriate tape. That would be acceptable to my client if it's acceptable to the town. Okay, is, I guess at this point, if is there anyone on the board, the chair would chair would entertain a motion to accept Mr. Nessie's request for a continuance. Chairman, just a query, the 27th, are we talking 27th of July? That happens to be a Thursday. I'm just questioning whether or not that's that was intentional. Ms. Ralston. No, I tried to get back on. It's the 25th Tuesday, the 25th. Okay. So the date for the continues would be a day certain of Tuesday, July 25 at 730 or as soon thereafter as the case may be heard. That okay with you Kathy. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Japan. We would make a motion that the hearing on this matter be continued to Tuesday, July 25 at 730. So a second. Second. Seconded by Mr. Holy. Mr. Nessie just as a mate just to make sure that we've we've nailed this down. That continuance is acceptable to you. Kathy, are you okay with that? We're okay with that. How about you? Are you okay with that? Think I'm around. Yes, we are. All right. Thank you very much. We'll do a roll call vote. Mr. DuPont. Aye. Mr. Holy. Aye. Mr. Riccardelli. Aye. Ms. Hoffman. Aye. Mr. Blank. Aye. The chair votes aye and Mr. Klein is absent. So the motion for a continuance is approved. So we'll take this up again at, at the next available meeting. Mr. Nessie, would you, you know, just as a matter of practice to just is to work closely with ISD on this, it will make everything a lot easier for everyone. If everybody, if you're all around the same page and see it the same way. Thank you. All right, thank you very much. I appreciate, I appreciate your time and look forward to seeing you again next month. Okay. So the final case tonight is. 60 aerial. 60 or 61. 61. 61 aerial street. And. Who's going to represent the applicant on this one, Ms. Waldron. You're there too, Ms. Waldron's. And so, which Laura is the, the name, your name is actually what's on the screen, but. Go ahead. Let's tell us which one we'd like to do. All right. Good evening. I'm Lauren Walden. And this is my wife, Emily Walden. And we're here tonight requesting a special permit for a home at 61 aerial street for a large edition, sort of similar to the first one of the night. We've lived at this address since January 2010. And since moving in, we've expanded our family and now have three kids who are ages three, eight and 11. We're attending preschool and public school in Arlington. And the five of us currently have a two bedroom, one bathroom home. So space is very tight for us. We love our neighbors. We love our street that we live on. And we don't want to have to move out of this great neighborhood to fit our family and to stay here. We've planned an addition that will give us two additional bedrooms so that everybody gets their own room and doesn't have to share. And a second bathroom to accommodate our now larger family. The addition exceeds 750 square feet, which is why we're here before the special permit, but we're complying all of the setbacks. So there's just no even or anything like that. So this is work to make the layout as efficient as possible to meet our families needs and fit with the character of the neighborhood. Our contractor architect and several supportive neighbors are on the call as well. And please let us know if you have any questions and thank you. Thank you. I wonder if maybe the architect could walk us through the drawing so that we can get a better sense of what you're asking to do. Yes, I can definitely do that. Alexander Peterson representing Laura and Emily and derby square effects. Let me see if I can share my screen. Let's see. Are you able to see my screen. Starting. Okay. Let me just get to the first page and then kind of go from there. Okay, so the current home is 900 square feet. And it's basically doesn't have the needs of the family. I apologize.  There we go. Hopefully this will do it. Okay, so, so we're basically proposing a. So the current home is one and a half stories kind of a standard cake and we're basically proposing an addition. That was basically an extension to the homeowners off of the homeowners in ground garage. So would make it basically kind of like a two and a half story edition. The slope kind of allows for that. So we're not changing much in terms of the actual slope of site and we're not changing on the parking or not sure why my screen is freezing up on you guys. Here it is. So on your on your left, you will see the existing house and then on your right of the screens you should see basically the proposed. So the home currently has kind of a single story garage is being used as a storage. We're keeping it as a storage room and then the entire basement is more or less being used as a storage so we're kind of just keeping that as an unfinished space and a storage but more of the walk out kind of situation. And then on the first floor we're adding a bedroom and a master suite with a new bathroom and in the attic, we are doing a two extra bedrooms for the kids that are all in the attic space within half stories but we're not changing anything and then the existing roof structure. So that is still maintaining to be just a very attic kind of storage space. And if you see the home is actually very, very small and very kind of and then I'm going to share the actual existing house and street view. Can you see that now. The street view of the house. So, and house is basically it is kind of very historical looking Cape and we're trying with the new addition to kind of maintain those historical details to kind of make it fit with the existing house as well as the neighborhood. The driveway and the curb cut would remain the same. We're just slightly changing the slope of the driveway, and then allowing for the addition to basically appear right in front of this existing garage in this area over here so I'm happy to walk you through to any questions. Um, but I hope that gave you a pretty good summary of what's happening. Are there any questions of the board. I have a question in terms of the overall size of the current house you had mentioned it was 900 square feet in your application has 1530 square feet and I wondered what the reason is for the difference. I believe maybe Laura and Emily and or am the counter contractor will be able to say a little bit more about that when we were calculating the score footage and talking to the inspector. He basically inclined that we should be including the basement in our basement because of the fact that technically the basement is a walk out and being converted even though is actually is a basement and currently is 3.3 feet four inches from the ground to the ceiling. So it's not a really usable space inside the basement it's only currently six four two inches or so in the existing basement we're making it a one foot drop in the existing in the new addition so it becomes a seven foot two inch space on the inside. So the family is mostly planning to use it as an actual unfinished space for the time being. And again Laura Emily or Aaron feel free to chime in otherwise. Laura Emily. And that sounds right. Yeah, the current basement is I'm five foot four and it's, and it's short for me. So that's the current is a little bit. I wonder if you could comment on on. I noticed that they've got at least one significant fairly a significant looking tree on the what in my neck of the woods they used to call the devil strip but it would be just just off the curb. Another one in the yard and it looks as if it's possible that there are some more around back I wonder what if you could describe what the situation is with respect to trees on the property. Which, if any would be removed or put in danger by the plants that you have. We've got on the property we've got four mature oaks, there are, you can see that they're all kind of behind the house the large mature oaks. There's kind of one off to the side and then two more in the back and one in the far corner. And then we've got one large evergreen that's kind of right up along that hedge behind the property line and that's, that's clear out in the back as well. And then four maples I think there's these two in the front here. One off to the side on the Washington Street, and then a small maple in in the back. And the current we don't currently have any plans for for removing any trees as part of it. There's one, you know, in the front might be kind of in the zone there but it's not, not anywhere. I don't believe it is just because we're not doing any change to the curb cuts and actually the driveway is actually going to be in a sense just going a little bit more. If anything, some of the bushes will probably be removed but none of them mature trees. Okay. Does anybody any further questions from the board. Mr. Chair. Mr. Holy. So if I understand the drawings correctly though they used to be a garage, and now it's going to be an unfinished space right to with the driver be used for the garage as an for the car park. Yeah, right now we have, we've got a tandem garage but with a minivan and an SUV we can't fit them in the garage. And so we'll continue parking in the driveway as we have been. And there is no in the future usage of this space for a garage right as humans going to be used as a family room and no more. Yeah, we looked at, you know, we considered the possibility of including a garage, but just given, you know the per square foot parking cost we'd rather not park a vehicle in there we'd rather, you know, have our kids roller skate down there and, and, you know, have extra storage and right. The reason for asking is that in, if that is the case, there is a separation requirement for the garage from the main space so it's just curious on if that is being considered or not. I had another follow up question is the height of the new addition, how high is it relative to the existing ridge line, it seems about three to four feet but I just want to know from the architect, what is the difference in the height. 30 inches in height difference. 30 inches. Yeah, 30 inches two and a half feet. Okay. Thank you. Is there anything else from the board. Right this is a public hearing is the same rules apply as have applied up to now. Is there anyone who is here to address this application. Mr. Moore. Thank you Mr. Chair Steve Moore Piedmont Street. So, first off just one question, this is a, this is a pretty large edition looks by the size of the architectural drawings larger than the original house. And I guess with some grading down below the grade that's currently showing or maybe it's just my misinterpretation. What has been, I assume the neighbors were reached out to and what was their response Mr chair that's my first question. Probably is to miss Wolverine. Yeah, we actually have a couple of our neighbors. Yes, we can reach out to our neighbors and we've actually got some of them on the line including one whose hand up is, is handed up for right after you. That's great news Mr chair it sounds like they, the good neighbor policy is sometimes spotally enforced and it sounds like that did occur here which is good news. These are large trees and the again, I mentioned the addition is large. I, there's going to have to be some significant protection for the root zone, particularly the tree that is in front of the house also there seems to be on one on one street new this a very large white fence that wraps around one side of the house it's missing in the other street you on the other side of the house and I assume the fence will be modified or whatever to take that in. So confused by the fencing appearing one of the street views, but there's going to have to be some root protection and there's since this is a large addition there's going to have to be a tree plan. And if consult with the board and the tree plan has to be created by a certified arborist and the public street tree of course is already a public tree that will I assume probably not be touched during the process here. I, it's hard for me to tell whether or not that tree in front of the house is within the setback I believe it is. I assume aerial street is a public way. So I think that's in the setback, and would be that would be a affected tree. So anyway, just that advice is to go approach the tree warden with this and tree plan before any demolition. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Moore. Is there anyone else who wishes to wishes to address the application. Okay, saying none. We'll close the public hearing and a couple of people. I've got I'm sorry I've got something in front. I beg your pardon. I have a very congested screen and it congested some people right off it. But Miss Thompson I think was next. Hi, good evening I'm Deb Thompson and I live at 54 aerial street across the street from war and Emily and their, their great family. And I live in the house that my mom grew up in so I've seen that house for 62 years. It's, it's to the best of my knowledge it's a lot and a half, I believe. And the house was always in great shape. And then the previous owner was older and wasn't able to take care of it and Warren Emily came in, and they've done the best that they can to try and maintain the way it is right now. But I'm thrilled that they're going to put an addition on. I know how how how small the house is because Mr Clark who built all of these houses is pretty much the same footprint for all of them. And I know, I don't know how my, my mother with her parents lived in that footprint. But it's too with three kids. It's kind of difficult. So I'm thrilled. I wish you all the best. And if you guys need anything more. We have a great neighborhood just reach out to us. Thank you miss Thompson. Thank you. Mr Gustafson. Hello, thank you. I live at 50 aerial street, not directly but kind of diagonally across from Laura and Emily. And I just really want to echo what Deb, Deborah Thompson said is that I think this will be great. You know, not only for Laura and Emily and their family, but for the property and for the house neighborhood as well. There's numerous other houses in our neighborhood that have gone through kind of similar renovations, and I have not seen any sort of negative effects from those additions that have been done. And I think it would be a huge quality of life improvement for their family, which I think would carry for for any, you know, people that would own the house and in the future. As Deborah said, I think most of the neighbors are quite envious of Laura and Emily's lot. It's huge. So, you know, I think there's plenty of room there. Certainly I would be thinking the same thing if it were my property. So my full support. I don't think it's going to ruin the view out of my front windows. I know it's just an opinion. It's certainly not going to overcome any sort of restrictions, but again, my full support to them. Thank you. Miss Lee, I think is here. Well, I should. Next up is Miss Lee and we'll get to Mr and I'll ban Tian. Next, I'm just following the water on my screen. Miss Lee. Yes, good evening. I just also wanted to come on and just say that I'm very supportive of Lauren Emily's plans. I live right next door. If the fewer looking at the view that the architect showed the house on the right so number 57. So immediately a budding them and we're very supportive and we're really excited for them to start the project. Thank you. Good evening everyone. Thank you, Mr Chairman. My name is arm my owner of alpha construction and I've walked into many various houses and you know looked at additions and houses are huge. So I walked into Lars and Emily's house, tiny house. I feel like they need the space. They are so crammed three children. I think they're a wonderful family and the addition that's going to be done is going to be beautiful and I would just hope that the board considers giving them their space that they require tree wise. I know there was a concern for Mr more. We're very diligent I've worked in this town for many years I pulled multiple permits. We will definitely do the tree plan that's in that's that's in the next phase. So no concern there I've done multiple properties building a 5000 square foot house now. So we're very diligent and we're very aware of what the town needs and and what the town needs for you know going forward to support the trees and whatever that neighborhood needs. So, thank you. Great thank you very much. Is there anybody else who wishes to address this application. Mr share, Mr share you have your hand up. William share. Yes, hello. Can you hear me. I can. Okay, I'm a little. I'm not a very experienced zoom user. I just want to say that I also have taken a look at the plans and I really applaud the efforts that they have obviously made to tie the addition into the with the existing building. I just want to note that in the front, they have that kind of gabled roof elements, the dormant element that mimics the entry of their existing house. And so I think they've done a nice job with the design there. And I'm happy also that people have pointed out the issue with the trees because our neighborhood has lost recently about six or seven major trees. So I'm glad that I hope that they have some beautiful trees there that they can be saved. I should note that I can tell you that the tree that's right in front of their house, right at the curb is sick, and I'm sure it's going to die very soon. So, and people should be aware of that. That's already a lost tree, I think. And the only thing that I would maybe just urge I don't know who's her view this is but I think on a lot of projects. One of the things that gets done sort of on an ad hoc basis is like the, you know, the compressors and the heating units and the cooling units, and all those things and they sort of, they never show up on the plans. And, but then of course, they need to go somewhere, and they often just get placed almost, you know, in a place that's, you know, not just maybe convenient for the installer but not necessarily best for the neighborhood so I just hope that some attention can be taken there in terms of where the placement of these various mechanical systems will be. All right, is there any questions. I also just want to say I second you know I can't believe that they've been raising such a large family in such a small house so I definitely commiserate with them. I don't know how they did that, but it's great families. Mr more you give another shot at it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr chairman yes for a second I. I just want to suggest that when they approach the room to talk about protection and develop the tree plan that they should just he look at that street tree because if it truly is sick or dying the way many trees are on the street, the town can take it down. Because it becomes a safety hazard and then replants in the area or the applicants can request a street tree for their property which is very easy process just to suggest thank you. Thank you Mr more. Yeah, and in reply to that Mr more we did contact the town arborist, a couple years back when we noticed that it seemed sick and they came out they trimmed it and they said it's good for now so. Maybe they'll take a look again.  When, when people talk about the town arborist. Is that a separate position from the tree warden. There may be some confusion here. The town, the Department of Public Works has a tree crew of which is comprised of a number of three climbers manager that kind of thing that three warning is the head of the tree to three division so to speak. Obviously maybe a division lead with some of the different name the pre warden is the sort of final authority, but the, I'm not sure there's a town arborist which is separate from from Tim with me with the pre warden current one. But the tree crew folks all have various expertise is that probably gets a query down again. Thank you. So, can I. I'm not sure whether Mr mountain bandy and Mr share both of whom have their hands up stills are with us just left over with you want to speak again. They will disappear. Disappearing hands. Is there any, is there any other anyone else from the public who wishes to address this going. Tracy and Michael Kelleher. Can you hear me. Yes, I don't know whether I'm calling on Tracy or Michael but I'm sorry this is Tracy.  Okay, I met my husband and I are at 51 area. We've been there since 1990. We've watched people come and go we've watched, we've actually done additions to our home also. So we are really looking forward to Lauren Emily, having the same space to enjoy and raise their family, their house is very small. So, Michael and I both very excited about them doing this project. Thank you very much. Miss Keller. Okay, now. Are there still, are there any others like I see some of you but as soon as you raise your hand also I'll see. Can you hear me. Yes. So far, you're 1508 triple star 894 so you'll have to identify yourself for the record. I'm on just the phone not on the computer. My name is Andrea Drasty and I am at 15 Carl road, which is perpendicular to aerial, and I have to say I'm in full full support of this project. My kids currently share room we have a small house and I totally get it and I think I, I just, I'm so excited for their family and I am in full support and it's going to be so fabulous for them to enjoy their space. Thank you very much Miss Keller. Thank you. So how is there anyone else going, going. Okay, gone. The public hearing is closed. It's been, it's been an edifying and inspiring conversation and I thank you all for stepping in. If the board were inclined to grant this application for a special permit for a large addition. The, he would presumably want to use the three standard conditions. I would suggest that in light of the discussion on the, on trees that the discussion, the condition that we adopted in the first case that we heard tonight, relating to consulting with the tree warden. Might be an appropriate addition as well. Wish to add. Have any other condition that they have in mind that might be appropriate in this case. Okay, saying none. It's up to the board of course whether they are interested in the fourth condition that that I just indicated. At this point the chair will enter would entertain a motion to approve. Mr. Dupont. I would like to move the application. For the instruction of the additional under 5.2. 5.4.2 d6 of the zoning bylaw and as was just mentioned includes the three standard conditions and then the fourth condition. As much as we have done on high is just saying that the applicants will formulate a tree plan in consultation with the tree warden. Okay, that motion has been made by Mr. Dupont is there a second. Second, seconded by either Mr. hold Mr. Holy and Mr. Riccardelli your tie. You can give it to Mr. Holy is already pretty much monopolized the second all the evening so you can fight for it you can flip a coin later on we'll we'll say seconded by someone. The to approve with four conditions. We'll do a roll call vote. Mr. Dupont. Hi. Mr. Holy. Hi. Mr. Riccardelli. Hi. Mr. Miss Hoffman. Hi. Mr. LeBlanc. Hi. Mr. Klein is absent and the chair votes aye so thank you for spending your evening with us and congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good luck. So the hearing on this is closed as we've discussed earlier the in terms of where we're going on July 11. We're going to have a hearing on 10. I expected that point that we'll be able for the first time to have some input from the town's peer review consultant. On the 25th, we have a regular meeting scheduled with this point. I think it's two cases that look like they may appear then. One thing I wanted to bring up to everyone is that 10 sunny side won't be over. After July 11. There will be two or perhaps three more sessions of that hearing, I believe. Part of it will be to work through with the issues that tetra tech may have with the application and to make sure that those things are done. We always have and this could be conceivably connected with the responses to the tetra tech comments. We always sort of do a wrap up to review the various things that have been raised and make sure that we have not forgotten overlooked anything, or that we at least know what what the responses are to all of that. And finally, after we do all that, we generally get an opinion from draft opinion from the board's consultant. And spend at least some time giving the applicant and the public an opportunity to discuss those conditions to discuss the way they're worded to discuss what isn't there or what is there. And to make sure that that we understand what the issues are when we close the public hearing and go into the radio silence that characterizes our deliberations. So I'm going to go a little bit at where the where possible Tuesdays are. Obviously we've just gone through July. And the end I have some information as to where you are and if I forgot and didn't put it on the words calendar. I apologize but hope to be met corrected in my ways. Excuse me August, the August 1, August 15 and August 29 are all Tuesdays in August, which I don't know for sure that somebody is there is is going to not be able to to to be on the on the call and I think I sent around a email earlier today asking you to let me know which if any of those days might work for you, which definitely don't work for you is more is even more important. And I think that we'll probably want to use one of them we might want to use two of them, the 15th and the 29th have better spacing, maybe than others. And I'm hoping that we can bring the this this application to a conclusion, the hearing on the application to a conclusion by by the middle of February. So if you could look at your calendars we still got to talk to the applicant we still have got to talk to the peer review consultant there's lots of other people who have schedules that are all difficult to manage during the summertime but we need to sort of set something in order to be able to avoid losing our momentum after July 11. All right, so I have nothing more to say does anyone else have anything they would like to bring up bring to the attention of the board. Mr more you look as if there's something that you would like to talk about. Yeah, I've been doing this too long now you now you know, figure me out. I just want to say that, you know, I've been coming to this meeting for a while and this is the first instance I can remember where Mr Klein was not around. And, although I'm sure there's been other instances where I've just not been in the meeting. It was quite noticeable he wasn't here now that's no reflection on you Mr hand. Yes it is but that's okay I understand his dedication. His absence shows his dedication, I guess, in my view because I've never, never seen him not here. Meanwhile, you're getting quite the work out with me this intense on the side. So, no, no reflection on you ran the meeting very well was traveling in my humble opinion. I just note that Mr clients absence was noted. Thank you. I noted it I noted it to every second. Okay, well Mr client is is on his vacation. He, I don't know when he when he takes a vacation from his job but he certainly never takes a vacation from us and so I wish him the best he he certainly needs it he's one of the hardest working people I know. So in the absence of anything else. I think we've come to the point where the chair can entertain a motion to adjourn. So moves. Mr moves that move by Mr Dupont, seconded by either Mr Rickardelli or Mr Holy depending upon who missed out on the last one. Okay Mr Rickardelli will do it. We'll do this by boy by record the by told the whatever it's called. Mr, Mr Dupont. Hi, Mr. Rickardelli. Hi, Mr Holy. Hi, Mr Hoffman. This is Miss Hoffman. Oh, this is so hard. It's late and I got up very early and cuddle to grandchildren so. All right, Miss Hoffman, you've done great. I, Mr the blank. I, and I, I'm about to call on Mr more but I probably shouldn't. I'm going to call on the chair votes I and the, and the meeting is adjourned. Good night to everybody will look forward to seeing you on July 11. Good night.