The problem about money or scarcity, you know, one way the ego would counsel is if you've got a belief in scarcity, it would be to get a great job and have lots of money. That'll take care of your scarcity. That's kind of an obvious way of dealing with the problem. And here comes the course in its saying, the scarcity is a belief in your mind, and the only way that you'll completely ever heal it is bring the belief of scarcity to the Holy Spirit. And then the belief will be gone, and you won't have the problem anymore. That's all I know about. Now we're good. You haven't said anything I don't know, but I want to know about the belief in scarcity being gone, and then I won't have the problem? Because what, I'll have money? No. The perception will change. That's a low record, I'm sorry. We're not doing one. It's good, we're taking this with, we can take the issue of the money, we can use that, because basically the issue with money or the issue with anything, it's the same thing. I know it's not out there, but I can't figure out how to fix it in here, or how to get it fixed or how, or is it fixed?  I think I know that, don't I? So what we do is, we'll take that, in fact, there's an early section in the course where this gentleman was just bringing up the illusion of needs, and that's one of the very, very, very earliest ones. It's on page 11. And basically what Jesus says is, the idea of order of needs arose because having made this fundamental error, when the fundamental error is belief in lack, the belief I'm lacking or I'm not complete or whole, having made this fundamental error, you had already fragmented yourself into levels with different needs. As you integrate, you become one, and your needs become one accordingly. Unified needs lead to unified action because this produces a lack of conflict. The idea of orders of need, which follows from the original error that one can be separated from God, requires correction at its own level before the error of perceiving levels at all can be corrected. Let's bring it back to the practical. When we think about the world, if we think of ourselves as a person in a world, it seems that we have needs on different levels. In other words, we can talk about the mental level, maybe. We can talk about the emotional level. Does anybody familiar with like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where he talked about, we have basic levels of needs, food, clothing, warmth, sex, so on and so forth. Maslow also talked about like self-actualization needs, of reaching your full potential. Let's pull it back even more specific. If we went around the room and talked about things that we were really interested in and really believed in, some people may talk about environmental issues, wanting to have a clean earth, or some people may talk about wildlife issues, or save the rainforest. Other people may talk about eradicating AIDS. Other people may say, well, that's fine, but I've got big interpersonal problems with my husband or my daughter right now. Or financial needs. Or maybe it's sickness, a chronic condition or a disease. There's so many different ranges and levels. It seems like save the dolphins in cancer and my interpersonal relationships with my mother are like really different things. And this is what we're talking about, the illusion of levels of need. When Jesus gets like in less than 79 and 80, he says, let me recognize the problem so it can be solved. And then let me recognize that my problems have been solved.  It's like, wait a minute, I don't feel that way. It seems like every day I've got to deal with problems, interpersonal problems and, you know, survival and so on and so forth. And so what this course is offering, what Jesus is saying is that you only have one problem and there is one solution. Isn't that nice to think that it's so simple? Haven't all of us felt that if there is such thing as truth, it would be simple instead of really complex. So he tells us that there's one problem and that there's one solution. Now, what we get into is what we're just talking about too is that if I perceive the problem to be in the world, then it can't be solved because the Holy Spirit is that one answer to that one problem and the Holy Spirit is in the mind. God did not place the answer where the problem wasn't. He didn't place the answer out on the screen. He didn't place the answer in the world. He placed the answer in the mind if it's sleeping sound and that's where the Holy Spirit is. So the course constantly says bringing your illusions to the truth, bringing your false beliefs to the light, to the Holy Spirit in your mind. The false ideas and the false beliefs that are in the mind, everything are all what I would call backwards. They all have the basic essence that there's something out there on the screen that's causative and my mind is the effect. In other words, when you were mentioning when it's like an 80-degree day or a 60-degree day, the mind has beliefs for preference and temperature.  That's not the way it gets perceived because it seems like the sun is what makes it hot. It seems like there's something on the screen that the sun makes me feel hot. If I don't put enough food in this body, then that's what makes me hungry. Not that the hunger has something to do with the belief in my mind, maybe it was separating from God, but that I don't have enough food, so that's why I'm hungry.  They hurt my feelings. They hurt my feelings. Or my boss made me so mad.  I just lost my peace of mind. Basically, you can start to get a sense of that the world's teaching, the ego's teaching, is that there's always something on the screen that's the cause of my upset. Not only that, but there's always something on the screen that's the cause of my happiness, you know? That giant hot-foot Sunday.  She finally fell in love with me, and now I'm happy. We go into the sunset. The ego, no matter what it is, I got the right job, I got the right promotion, I got the right car. I'm living in the right area now. I finally wanted to live in San Diego. I wanted my whole life to live in San Diego, and I'm happy because I'm in San Diego. And the course is basically saying that our happiness and our peace of mind and our upset has nothing at all to do with what's going on on the screen. And everything to do with our perception of what's going on on the screen. When we go into a movie theater, we go into a movie theater, we sit there at the movie theater, and we may see like Termes of Endearment, or some movie, we may be laughing one minute or really rooting for the heroine, you know, and really rooting against the villain. And basically what the course is saying is you're reading all the meaning that all the feeling that you're feeling and everything that you're seeing in that movie is coming from within you. Jesus says you never react to what happens directly. You always react to your interpretation of what's happening. So what we need to work with is you're correcting your interpretation. You're correcting your perception. Or another way of looking at it is out here on the screen is behavior. How many of us have tried to correct things in a behavioral sense? I'm too fat. I go on a diet. You know, I don't have enough money. I go get a better job. You know, I have a certain kind of illness. So I go to a doctor, a specialist who does an operation or gives me a particular kind of medicine. Or in the behavior modification where the mind will say, I want to be a good Christian, like Jesus says, I want to be kind. So I'm going to try to be a kind person. Meanwhile, inside, a lot of times we've had the feeling where we're just argh, argh, argh. We feel like we want to strangle the person, but we're trying to put on a nice mess because we think we want to, you know, do the kind thing. Forget about, forget about your behavior. Behavior will follow automatically from your thoughts and your perceptions. You know, don't try to fix things out there. Don't try to fix your behavior, but really follow me, follow me in as we go through perception and we go through raising false beliefs and you'll really have a transformation of your mind and then your behavior will automatically follow. You know, doesn't that make sense? You know, intuitively, you can kind of see how this is going. I can see how, you know, it all makes sense but I think what's confusing sometimes is where, you know, we're taught that what is out here is a reflection of what's in here and then you think, okay, well let's go to the source here and if we change, or if this has changed to come one with God then this will automatically follow and it's unrealistic to think that, oh wow, you can suddenly become millionaires but if you come to the consciousness and really realize that you aren't lacking or, you know, you're not sick or whatever, wouldn't there be some kind, I mean, I understand that there would be a change of perception, a shift of perception but wouldn't there also be some kind of change in the outward world to reflect the change in the mind? Maybe if that is a reflection of what is in the mind? Yeah, basically the pair that comes in is that the deceived mind really believes that there is this thing called an objective world out there, a real objective world. In other words, it's a part from me and you, you know, that there's a world we can talk about and there are people here and we use these and everything and basically what the course is leading to is that all perception in a sense is completely subjective. Every time any fragment looks through the ego's lens he sees the world in a distorted way. So there never was a lack in the first place. We never really were sick in the first place and we really see that. Yeah. That's the shift. The shift comes to the sense of, Oh, what lack? Yeah, it's a real clarity of coming to see this choice where it is and coming to see that it was just a misperception. But I know sometimes for myself if I am faced with a big bear in the middle of the road of this dream that I'm in then for me what has been helpful is to recognize that my goal for the day is the peace of God. Just for the day. Sometimes that's all I can do. It really simplifies it because it really brings it home what the important thing is to stay with the peace or to be open to the Holy Spirit's guidance. A lot of times when you really get into the metaphysics to the deeper levels as Kim Wapnick and other people have talked about is that the Holy Spirit doesn't work in the world. He's in my mind. And that's very scary. But there are a lot of passages in the song of prayer that basically say that the Holy Spirit will reach to you where you believe you are. So if you believe you're a mother and you believe I've got three kids and I only got $5 left and everything then when we really set aside the chatter and just really focus on peace as a goal then we may receive specific guidance on this is what you got to do next.  But to focus on the peace and then be open to who to call maybe what to do next. That makes it real practical that way. I think there are certain times too when there are things that you'll say to yourself like I will do the footwork and leave the outcome or whatever it is that gets you through that moment. But I've also recognized the times in my life that I have simply said a prayer of surrender in that I will let this go and not worry about it. I mean, I've often thought about and I told you this about the story about the two women or the man, a woman in London during the Second World War who had such utter and complete faith that they would be alright. I mean to the bone kind of faith. You know, you can't have any room for a niggling amount of doubt. They honestly believe that everything would just be okay so they would totter along when the air raid drills were going off and they would have the time to forget to pull their minds down. And at the end of the war every house on their block had been razed and theirs stood. But that's the kind of faith that I don't know that probably keeps the steps to get to it. But in those times in my life when I have simply said I don't know what to do I assume something will come along and it will work out. It always will. But you have to be willing to sort of let go of your attachment to results. If I am a really, if I think this through and I work my mind in such a way that it will project out into this war I think the minute you do that you're caught in separating yourself from and you're seeing the world out there again. I don't know. Yeah, it's a really good point because as soon as in the slightest way you're even looking for a little bit of an outcome or you're even kind of going to judge, engage how well you're doing by the outcome. I mean that's the trap that a lot of people will fall into using this course with sickness. I mean in a sense here you're getting to a past that's talking about sickness being a decision and that our response our state of mind is completely our own responsibility. There's nothing outside of us. There's no blaming God or blaming the medical model or blaming the doctors. You know it just brings it home.


Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Welcome back to the Cyber Underground. I'm your host, Dave Stevens. I know. Did you miss me? I wasn't here last week. But somebody else was. Rochelle Monsilungan. Monsilungan. Monsilungan. Okay. You say that from now on. All right. This is my guest host today. She's from the Hawaii Advanced Technology Society, HATS. And we're going to be making some recommendations for cybersecurity education because most people think you just go get some formal education, some training, you read a book. If you take a test and you jump into a job, it's not really how it goes, is it? Nope. No, it's not. Well, let's review why we should actually have some cybersecurity education. Let's just jump right into it. We have some slides here. Okay. Let's look at some stats. Slide one. This is some information that you need to know about how many people were employed in cybersecurity and how many open positions there were way back a couple of years ago and what we projected to be by 2021, half a million unfilled cybersecurity positions in 3.5 million openings in the United States. That's massive and we're already running behind. And every year we get farther and farther behind. So we're trying to train those people to get them into those positions. And it's a tough haul. Let's see the next slide. Okay. Business as you care. And it's all about the bottom line. In 2015 we lost $3 trillion worldwide, $3 trillion. That's some serious coin, especially when I'm worried about paying the mortgage every month. So that's like a lot more zeros than I'm usually used to. And the world lost that much money. Look at by 2021, $6 trillion. That's trillion with a T. That's staggering. Look at all the different ways you can lose your money from embezzlement to reputational harm. Fines are a big one and a lot of people don't discuss fines.  And it's like $0.75 per card number. So you can easily get a $4 million fine and there goes your small business. And then you're underwater and you'll never have another business. Let's take a look at the next slide. Okay, why shouldn't the government and its citizens care? Well, obviously, did you vote? Yes, I did. You're going to vote in the midterms? Yes. Do you want your vote to count? Of course. Well, we might not be counting as votes because people like Russia, countries like Russia are actually taking away our vote by influencing the elections. And we're going to be talking about how they did that with some fake news and Facebook stuff in the second half of the show. Let's move on now. Okay. Okay, this is a lot of stuff that people forget. Industrial control systems. So I gave the same presentation at the Pacific Rim Critical Infrastructure Security Summit last week. SCADA systems, system control and data acquisition, HMI, human machine interface, and HDI, human device interfaces. Those are not controlled by regular companies like Microsoft or Apple, and people are interested in cybersecurity like Google. They're controlled by Siemens or all these other electronics providers, and their engineers just care about making things work. Right. They don't realize that they could actually get hacked. Right. And they think because they're air gap because they're separated from computer networks that they won't ever be hacked. But you can hack that. Yes, you can. How would you hack it? Flash drive? Could be. Update? Yep. Okay. People walk in with the computers and plug in. Oh, yes. Yeah. And I love the quote. At the end there, there are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy. That was a writer, Alfred Lewis, way back in the beginning of the 20th century, said that.   How do you make a chair? I can't make a chair. So we take away like IKEA and we all go mad. And that's why it's important that we have cybersecurity in industrial control systems because we want to keep getting our water. And I'd like my toilet to keep taking the sewage away from the house, right? Okay. Let's see the next slide. Okay. Don't stand still. No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created. That's Albert Einstein. And it means that if you stop learning, new problems will still arrive every day, but you cannot solve those problems, right? So these are my recommendations in enforcing a cybersecurity framework like NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technologies, 800-171, that's for small and medium businesses. Those are recommendations to lock down your physical and cyber and social security profile. So your employees are all trained. By the way, we know that 90% of the problem is people. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to train the people. Okay. Right at the, the second to last bullet point there, Trek, Kohler and two other companies in Wisconsin are now sharing their cybersecurity incident info. They've made a collective so that if one of them gets hit, they tell the other companies so the other companies can be prepared and not get hit. I recommend that companies do this. I'll do that. Yes. And also pay attention. InfraGuard, US SIRT, look those up. They will send you broadcast emails saying, hey, here's the latest threat.  That's like daily, right? They do that. They send you. Daily, like several times daily. And they cover industrial control systems also. It's not just the software, but they'll go so far as to tell you your Chrome browser needs an update. You know, the Spectre and Meltdown stuff was a lot of browser in there. It depends if they actually listen though, right? Because I'm pretty sure there's some people that don't really care. There's a lot of people who don't really care, right? That's the last point. Not on their priority. Yeah. Let's look at the next slide. The next slide is this one. This is what's available right now. We're going to talk about formalized educational programs. The first thing you can do for your employees, and I put some samples down here from our state, but if you're listening from another state or country, there's programs that are equivalent of these out where you live, too. Vocational programs, your first stop, they can train you on specific skills. So if I need a specific skill, Rochelle, you work for the state. What kind of skills would I send an employee out for vocational updates? If you're running an IT department, what would you need updates on if you sent out people for skill sets? New certifications. Yeah, certifications, probably security plus. Security plus. So that's the CompTIA. Yes, CompTIA. CompTIA is also coming out with a couple of new ones, but there's NetPlus for networking, and there's the A-plus for basic training and networking. So you can update your skill sets by going to these vocational programs, and they're a one-stop shop.  Now, Rochelle's going to tell us about the certificate programs that we do at the University of Hawaii Community Colleges, because she's got two. Right. You got the CNACA, yeah? Oh, yes. I've got about that. Tell us about those. Actually, more than that, I think, because we finished, we have the database, we have the website, right, all of that. You just stacked the deck. Yes, I pretty much stacked it. Tell us about your journey. I think the only one I didn't finish was programming. You're one class I didn't take, and that was the only one that I was shy of, I think. So you got the certificate of achievement in cybersecurity, and you got your associates in information technology. Then you moved on to another school. Yes. Right. To University of Hawaii, West Oahu. Right. West Oahu is one of those four-year campuses that specializes and does stuff that the other campuses, the four-year campuses, don't, Maui's a four-year college. The mothership, UH Manoa, does not do cybersecurity specifically. So you went into the ISA program. Right. Tell us a little bit about the ISA program. So the ISA program, it's more geared to cybersecurity students. So a lot of the classes I've been taking, or I've taken, like right now I'm taking a cyber investigation class, project management, because you need to know all those things, not just the cybersecurity, but also the business side, right, to it. So we learned a lot about the hands-on kind of like the tools that you would have to use when you're, if you're going to be in cybersecurity. Now, this is a broad spectrum of pathways. You can take inside cybersecurity, and I think a lot of people realize how many choices you can make. You can do forensics. Yes, forensics.  Yeah, if you like to do that. Yeah. If you've got your music and your headphones, that's fine if that's your thing. But there's also management, right? So in your program, they teach you project management as well, right? So you can manage a team of IT people, and I think many people that want to go into management don't realize that you really need to know what your people are doing in order to manage those people. You need to know what their job is and how hard it is, so you know how much they can take, how much, you know, to expect. And those expectations can be skewed if somebody comes in from another industry and doesn't know cybersecurity. So the degree you're getting gives you that broad spectrum, right? So when you get out there, you can be one of those leaders and you understand what your people are doing. Correct. You understand that. You're more well-rounded, right? Right. So you know it's going to take a long time. Yes, it will. Yeah, right? It takes a lot. Well, so you've done that. Yeah. Talk about that, too. Let's put that slide, the next slide up. This is the program that Rachelle is in right now. It's a four-year degree. It's accredited by the NSA as a center of academic excellence in cybersecurity. Dr. Matt Chapman has put together this program. There's multiple pathways from all the community college systems. So if there's anybody in academia on the mainland listening, please do this. This is an exceptional thing to do. Feed your community college students into a four-year university and give them some experience on the way there because if we all know when you walk out of school and you have an education but you don't have any experience, what can you do? Nothing. Nothing, right? You just get like some help desk job. So let's talk about some of the things you're doing to attain that experience at hands-on functional experience as far as internships. Yeah, well, from in your entire journey, let's talk about when you first started Kapiolani Community College, all the way up to right now UH West, let's talk about some of those things that you and your club do for experience. So from my experience, I've done two internships with the state. So that's with the CEO, Todd Nakapoy, and then with Vince Hong, the CIO of the state. And then now I'm doing another internship with Purple Maya. So that one is more teaching. Purple Maya is? Yeah. It's like a nonprofit organization where they teach like more underprivileged kids coding, like website development. So like from my school that I'm at is Kapiolani High School. So they actually are going to do some kind of project at the end and they're going to present it and they were learning all about coding. And it's not like what we learn, like W3 schools, they're doing like bootstrap. A little bit harder way. That's the JavaScript framework for Twitter. It's publicly available that you can use to enhance your website. So that's a bunch of JavaScript functions that you can just call. You don't have to rewrite it or reinvent the wheel. So you get good at bootstrap and your site can look as good as Twitter, which is kind of nice. So you're out of Kapiolani High School? Yes. You're out by the old military base, right? That's by the old front gate of Barbara's Point. So that's out there with UH West. That's good. But with that one I'm also going to be doing a, just started a program with the Boys and Girls Club. So I'm going to be teaching a class in Evo Halipono. So this one is just kind of starting. So it's like an hour, a class, same thing, web development. And Evo's in the same area? Yes, in the same area. So the opportunities are so numerous. There are, yes. Everywhere. That you can localize, physically, right? So it's not too much of an inconvenience to get experience. No, for me especially. It's in that area. And then I work on campus. I know E.T. is about help desk, but I work at, I just recently started working at the UH IT, I'll use what's-a-while IT help desk. And I, okay, this is something I'm going to say, okay, I'm not like help desk, but from working there, I've only been there for about a month. I've learned so many things, and I think anybody starting out in the IT should start from it. Yeah. Yes. Well, we all did.  And when I go on calls, we get teased about IT. They love doing that stuff. That's the nerd stuff for them. And I'm just standing there like, oh my God, this is like so- I'm right here. Yeah, I can hear you. But we go through that, but I just ignore it. But I mean, I really enjoy it. I don't know.  Yeah, I am. It is. You're one of us. I'm a blogger nerd. Okay, we're going to take a break. All right. We're going to go pay some bills. Come right back. Okay. Stay safe. Hello, everyone. I'm DeSoto Brown, the co-host of Human Humane Architecture, which is seen on Think Tech, Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host, Martin Desbang, we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live, but other aspects of our life, not only here in Hawaii, but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on Think Tech, Hawaii. Welcome back. We're with the Cyber Underground and Rochelle Manstilungan. Yes. Right? Yes. Got it. Correct. Okay. Good. Good. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that puts our government in danger right now. Okay. And we just talked about this first part of the show. Why should governments care about cybersecurity? And one of the things is, you know, the DNC and the RNC have both been hacked. And poor Podesta. All of his emails out there for everyone to see. But that was caused by a two-letter mistake in an email from the help desk. You know, they meant to say it's an illegitimate email and they left off the I.L. and they said legitimate. So Mr. Podesta put in his password and username and then they're hacked. They're owned. And that social engineering attack was actually massively effective when I looked at the statistics. Only 30 emails went out, 29 of them were to people that didn't work for the campaign anymore. So only one campaign member got a bad email and it worked. Yes. I mean, that's effective. Man, I wish I could be that effective with our pen test. We need to up our game. The Russians are good. They bring the A game to the mix, but they got time and materials. Those things aren't really the hacks that can nail us all the time though. Let's talk about what to look out for. And one of the things that I think everyone's looking at is social media. So Facebook, Facebook actually presented stuff as news. You know, people could post whatever they wanted as an ad and it looked like a news article and could link to a page that looked like a news page and people just believed it. It was in barrel. And that's disturbing to me. What other social media outlets do you watch out for when you're out there? I would say Twitter. Twitter? Especially, but that one you would have to take with a green assault because you can't believe everything what people write on there, right? I think we're experiencing the same thing with the web as we did with print in the first place way back when. People believe that if it's written in black and white on a printed page that it's true. And that's just not the case. If someone's got money, they'll publish it. And out it goes and if it's, you know, rock solid grade, if it's not and just makes money, oh, that's great too, right? And so Facebook thrives on advertising and when they put this stuff out there they get more clicks. Right. And well, most people, they just look at the headline, right? They don't really go all the way into the story. I have friends like that that do not drill into the story and actually read the story. Because I was reading a study where they did, like people didn't actually click on the link. They just read the headlines. Yeah. It's provocative. Yes. Which is why so many people, I think, voted the way they did. I think their opinions were swayed by some reprehensible headlines, especially the one that caused a man to take a gun to a pizza parlor, thinking that the Clintons had captive children in the basement. That was way too far. I cannot believe stuff like this happens. But that's America. Yes. I would have said, I acclimated to social media, so we're reading that. So what are some of the tips, how do you read news? Give us some tips on how you would differentiate. Well, aside from just reading the headline, I actually try, I look it up. I use this thing called Snoop. Snoop.com to make sure, because most of the time it's not real, or I look at the sources. Yeah. You know, because sometimes the website could be totally off. Like how you see it brings you to another page. It could bring you to some kind of pages like Nothing at All, or something malicious. Sources. Yes. Let's talk about that. So from an academic approach, you're in school now. So now when you have an intelligent conversation, people expect this in your field. If you were going to make an assertion, make a statement, people want you to support that assertion and cite your sources. So if I say, hey, neutrino communication is going to be the wave of the future, someone's going to say, well, how do you know? And I'd say, well, in 2009, the University of Illinois did this experiment. Now tell them about the experiment and where to look it up. That's an intelligent conversation at an academic level. But I don't see that happening after two beers at the bar, right? It's just, you know, people start yelling and then it devolves. But that's how I read news. And then I look up multiple sources. So I don't know about your sources. Mine are things like BBC, NPR, I go to the Washington Post. But then I'll get the opposite opinion from the LA Times, right? Which is a conservative rack. And I compare, and they might write it from a different angle, but you still get the same underlying facts. And that's what you can go on, right? So tell us a little bit about your experience. What do you do? How do you do your news? I do the same as you, but because sometimes some of the story, they kind of turn it around to make it sound like a certain way. I've seen the news all like that. What was the one that I just, I couldn't stop laughing. One newspaper had a picture of President Obama holding a Pepsi. And he was drinking a Pepsi. And it's President Obama supports Pepsi-Cola. And then Fox News, I think, had the headline, if I'm not mistaken, said President Obama declares war on Coke. Right? Right. Wait a minute. He's just holding a soft drink. And it's too completely.  Yeah, right? They just want the headlines. I think a lot of people forget that. That's what that business is there for. They have to sell. They have to drive opinions, get clicks, sell magazines, sell subscriptions. And that's how they make their money. And if they don't have sensationalist headlines, then they won't have a job. They won't have a job. And then what do we do? Then we have to depend on the state-run media, also known as Fox News. Just in case you didn't know, it's Fox News. OK. I really ought to do a rant about that. Jay asked me to do a rant. I'm going to do a rant. OK, let's talk about more now that we're going away from warning about this fake news. Let's talk more about how you have worked with the HATS Club to bring more experiences to the students who are doing cybersecurity. Now we all know when you walk in your first job, they're going to ask you, what's your academic experience? What are your certifications? But then what have you done? So let's talk about what are the students doing under your leadership. So under our leadership, we actually do CTF trainings. CTF is? Like capture the flag. Capture the flag. Describe that for us. So it's more like, it's kind of some more real life, not kind of real life, I guess, scenarios where you're solving a puzzle, like doing reverse engineering, those type of things. So then you use tools to try and figure out the hidden message. And that's the flag sometimes. Yes, that's the flag. Whatever the hidden message is, you can capture that. And you get points. Right. And like how we mentioned the last time, I'm going to give another plug, the National Cyber League, which registration is open. So we also compete in that as well. That's going on now. That's the regular season. Pre-season's over? No. Actually, registration just started on Monday. OK, so we're just starting out? Still registering. How much is that? $25. $25. And now they're just open for high school students. That's amazing. Yes, because they're trying to really promote the whole STEM program in schools. So I think that's actually a good thing. So now they're asking us to try and mentor students in particular high schools. So Merle Hioki is trying to get that happening, I guess. He's asking us if we would like to help with that. There's a lot of apprehension with people who don't know about this. And they say, oh, National Cyber, I don't know anything. So why would I do this? But what they don't know is that there's a gym where it's like a practice area, right? Tell us about the gym. You sign up for this, and then you get access to the gym, right? So the gym, you could practice that. That's like throughout the whole competition. So you can practice everything that they will have in the actual season. So there's the open source, there's like the reverse engineering, web exportation. So you can do things like with Wireshark. There's even cryptography, stenography. Stenography. Stenography, I guess, thank you. Yes, all of that, which I wasn't too good at. But after doing the gym, I got better. They show you the tools. They show you the tools. This tool will reverse that hash. This tool will break this goal. This tool will do this web attack or whatever, right? And metasplites in there, I would assume, and Wireshark, which is a scanning tool. Just so you know, learn Wireshark. All right. So we've got the National Cyber League.  And then there's the contest. How many days is the contest, when it starts? So it starts, I believe it starts in April. So there's the, what do they call it? So you do the preseason and the postseason, right?  So as a team, how does that work? Have you ever done a team? Yes, I did the team last semester. How's that work? It was a class that I was taking at Utah as well, which I would highly recommend. It's only offered in the fall. But it's, we all teach each other our tips and how to get through the whole NCL. And we had presentations, tools to use, because most of the people in my class were experienced more than I was. So did you have to sit in the same room when you competed, or could you be in remote location? Oh yeah, so we were separated in groups. So yeah, we sat, we were in our classroom, and the other people were in another area. So that's the team one. Individualized, you can do this whole home, right? You're at home. You can't get any help from anybody else. You're pretty much on your own. And yeah, you have no life. You're just going to be doing that all the time. They don't monitor you, right? They don't have a camera on. No. OK. No, no camera. No help. No help. Yeah, right. I'm with you. OK. So let's talk about the, there's another competition, the collegiate cyber defense competition. So you've participated in this? Yes, like when I was at KCC. So that was another class I was taking. OK. So let's talk about CCDC and how that works. You don't know how that works? I know. It's a red team, blue team. So let's talk about, the red team is usually attacking team. They exploit things. And then there's a blue team that's the defense team. And that's usually what the students do, you defend. Just so everybody out there in the audience knows, it's a set up. So the blue team is just where? It's actually? You get hammered. The red team gets to scan your network days in advance. And they have everything set up. So the moment they release you to do the attack and defend, the red team's got metasploit and all that stuff, ready to go. And they just press the button. And you have to defend.  It's like working at a help desk. You get phone calls. What actually happened in real life, I guess. I don't know about the child being lost. I don't know. There are some weird scenarios, but. Well, they try to get you to unlock passwords. Yes. It's over the phone, like the real help desk. The first, in our last minute, I'll tell the story, because I love this story. The first CCDC competition we did, I came in with pizzas for lunch. And the judge said, hold on. And typed an email to the entire team without me knowing. And it said, anti-sale and so-and-so brought in pizza. Come on, get pizza. Everybody in the room, the whole team stood up, did not lock themselves out of the computer, and walked out of the room to get pizza. And the red team walked right in. And when they returned with their pizza, they were compromised and they lost the whole thing. Lesson learned, which is why I like the competitions. You learn life lessons. Yes, you do. OK, give us your 10-second plug for hats before we go. So hats, if you guys want to join, we have a website. It's hats-e-t-o-a-t-t-e-m-slash-join. So going on to our website, there's actually a sign-up sheet where you just tell us about yourselves, what you're interested in. And we offer, like we were saying, the CTF training. There's also industry professionals that come in to talk, which we're actually going to have one soon, this month, for the pen testing. Oh, that's wonderful. And we're actually doing that with UH Manoa, the MIS club. Oh, good. Yeah, they're the great hats? The MIS? No, I don't know. No, this is totally different. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of clubs out there. Well, everyone's into this. Well, thanks for being a guest. Thank you. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. Aloha, and we'll see you next week with a really rousing episode. And I want you to call in for our next episode. It's<PHONE_NUMBER>. We're going to need callers because we're going to go, where no one's gone before in the show, we're going to ask you what happens if we get a message from space. Should we click on that attachment? Follow that link. We'll see you next time. Until then, stay safe.