The following is a presentation of TFNN Trade what you see With Larry Pezzavento Call now toll free at 1-877-927-6648 or internationally at<PHONE_NUMBER> Now Larry Pezzavento Okay looking good Billy Ray feeling good Lewis changing the method of operations today at the offices of Duke and Duke 100 South Broad Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania We posted a chart of one of the wild and woollyus markets of all time folks Natural gas and I'm showing you what I'm looking at right now This is my AI prediction for today. You had to be long until about two minutes ago We're gonna see if it's gonna be any good or not But the risk here has got to be around ten handles because it moves It moves and it moves Okay, now for an announcement As you know, we have Adrian toga ray as our guests usually But she's not going to be able to be on today Tim boss is going to be on Adrian will be back with us sometime in July But the reason why she had a chat with me today is she said Larry She said I've known you 30 years. I said, yeah, dear. Why she said you need a break and I said, yeah, I know And anyway, she said I've never seen the tiredness in your voice because she listens to the TFN and radio show Of course, I'd like everybody else on the planet. Anyway, so I'll be taking a break here next week Probably until July 1st. I have the there's two reasons for it folks I've had three three really big shocks this past week with one of my good friends dying Another one going into Alzheimer's and the third having a heart attack the heart attack. I is doing pretty good Actually doing very well as a matter of fact, but it was still quite Nerving to me because you know, I'm you know, I'm closer to 90 to I am 70. So I've got to be able to plan my years in the coming months and so to make my best use of what I've got and I've had a lucky lucky career. There's no question about it But anyway, that's that's neither here nor there. I will be able to do the videos each day I love doing those. I'm only going to be able to work an hour a day So I'll do the videos which takes me just about that long The radio show takes about two and a half hours to get ready including the time that we're on here And then the newsletter is no problem at all because John Jamison writes that and on that then I might tell you that We were in London There there was a hundred and twenty two people there I believe and there was someone in that room that was very very famous that I had no idea He was famous and he is really attached to the newsletter that John writes each writes for me each week And it's got a chance to be published somewhere very prestigious. They haven't decided yet But if it does, you know, I'll certainly let you know But John does a fabulous job with his writing because he is a professional writer Okay, now that's what we're going to be looking at now And let's just move on to the next one here What I want to do now is to come up and take a look at the S&P because this is really important what happened yesterday folks. I go through this whole sequence.  This comes from my good friend Alan Smith over in the UK They trade the S&P of course and you'll be able. Oh, why does my What I'm not being able to see the Uh the screen for some reason now. I don't know why It's not popping up. It says this the stream has ended Okay, you see it. Anyway, you can see that's the pattern. It's a one three five pattern This is the pattern that we talked about yesterday folks And that's why it's important that we go through some of the things that were happening You know yesterday, but just take a look at this. We'll start out here with the dow Jones e-mini This is really I mean, this is a mother-god in country stuff if you like Pattern recognition, you know swing trading type stuff. So you'll see here. This is a one three five pattern That's lined up Perfectly but most importantly and I put this in the video last night is the pullback today Was extremely important because if the S&P Could hold 41 30 And that that was down remember that's down 60 handles from the high 41 30 if you could hold 41 30 that was a 382 retracement and folks it held there and rallied 30 handles We got all the way up to uh 41 60 Uh, I believe and so that's why that's important now if we start going below there That's telling us that there's something wrong and that's the main thing now Let's just look at a couple others here. Here's one that happened yesterday I mean, you know, this is one of the reasons why that market was so doggone strong And we'll get this up here. So you'll be able to see it This is the old nasdaq and you'll see exactly folks within five points on the exact nasdaq It went through it by five points and rallied 300 handles. So I mean This is what short-term trading is all about speaking of short-term trading all about folks If you do any stock trading at all or any stock index futures Do this tomorrow is the last day that you can register For tom moe bryans one day. I mean one day all day Live trading and believe me He really knows stocks and how to put the volume together with his timing the market thing and with his book It's it's really you get that free So it's certainly worth everything that you can do that'll be on june the 10th Here on friday. So let's make a let's make a note of that tomorrow I don't have a guest planned as of yet, but I'm hoping to have one For us by tomorrow But I wanted to run through a few of these charts here before Tim comes on because it's important that we look at some of these things Because the importance of what we hit yesterday was uh, was very very important It was right on the money as far as all of those numbers that we were hitting and then today the pullback 50% in the essence in the dow jones 3382 in the russell And uh about 382 in the nasdaq. So none of those Really had much of a problem. You'll notice here the operating of the russell here because this is the one that has been Turned the market, you know way back on the 12th of may not the 20th But the 12th is when that bottom was made and then you can see the 382 retracement And we have a potential for a real breakout here to the upside folks and gosh I'm I'm really hoping that we get it because that's all part of the The overall theme of what we think is happening from may 20th That will have this heck of a rally and then You got to get ready for that folks and that's it That's my third reason for wanting to take a little break because when I come back from a break folks I can tell you this with a great deal of certainty Do not fade me in other words. Don't take positions opposite to what I do Because I you know when I'm ready, uh, I I'm good at this You don't want to fade that, you know that that but you know, hey faded if you like I don't know you you'll probably make a lot of money Anyway, I'm being a little too confident here But anyway when adrian called me today and told me says hey, you're really tired, you know Take a little break and I'm not just physically I'm physically tired. I'm okay It's just I'm emotionally tired. I'm taking a new herb medication that one of my friends recommended And uh, my goodness, I slept six hours last night straight through which for me is like Like 10 to 12 hours for anybody else. So That that part was, uh, you know, very very good when we come back from the break I want to spend a few minutes talking about a chart that zack more From down in savannah sent us showing the what's happened here over the last 16 years in trading and I'm going to put this chart up So we can take a look at it and then we can discuss it when we come back from the break So we'll be right back eight seven seven nine two seven six six four eight In a time of booming inflation, we are purchasing powers eroded There's no better place to protect your harder and money than ain't gold Vista gold's flagship asset is the mount cod gold project in the northern territory of australia This is australia's largest undeveloped gold project We are talking a world-class gold project in a tier one mining district This is a large-scale low-cost project with significant existing infrastructure in a politically safe and friendly mining jurisdiction Vista gold just completed the mount cod feasibility study Which resulted in a seven million ounce gold reserve in a 16-year mine life All of this combined with the approvals of all major operational as well as environmental permits This distinguishes mount cod as an attractive dearest party ready development state gold project Vista gold trades on the new york stock exchange under the symbol vgz You might think that if you want to be successful at trading in the stock market You're going to need a crystal ball after all it's impossible to predict the future, right? Like any endeavor in life before you decide it's impossible get some advice from the experts You might find that it's not so impossible after all for daily market overviews that give you direction on the key indices selective stocks and commodities Subscribe to the opening call newsletter at tfnn.com The opening call newsletter is written by basal chapman creator of the trading methodology known as the chapman wave The chapman wave up down sequence gives you an edge in identifying price turns finding the peaks and valleys and stock prices Get the opening call newsletter by basal chapman in your inbox every day First time subscribers also get a 30 day money back guarantee If you're not satisfied, let us know and you'll get a full refund within 30 days of signing up tfnn.com educating investors Steve Rhodes started his trading career as a student almost 20 years ago and the student has now become the master Steve won the prestigious timer of the year award in 2018 and barely missed that mark again in 2019 Finishing at number two for the year an amazing accomplishment Steve Rhodes is committed to sharing his techniques and knowledge with anyone who wants to learn And he shares his vast amount of trading knowledge every day in his mastering probability newsletter Steve's award-winning newsletter mastering probability is delivered every trading day with updates throughout the afternoon Sign up for steve's market newsletter mastering probability and you'll receive access to seven of steve's educational webinars Absolutely free at tfnn. All our newsletters come with a 30 day money back guarantee So you have absolutely nothing to worry about visit tfnn.com and try mastering probability 30 days risk-free today tfnn educating investors Call now toll free at 1-877-927-6648 internationally at<PHONE_NUMBER> Okay, folks. I posted the chart here sent to us by zak more. It's a fed fiddle reserve chart I believe shows the last 16 years You know since the time that Greenspan left Geithner came in and then Bernanke helicopter ben and all the others since that time Anyway, what we're looking at here is a tremendous amount of money being pumped into the markets now This is related to debt and bonds and we already know what's happening to the bond market that market has I mean it's They've got the the harm the arm and sickle man is uh with his hooded Sweatshirt is right behind it and it's making it really interesting to See whether the market's going to back off or not But if this is in fact this type of a top and I do believe that it is We're looking at something that is going to be You know absolutely incredible now. I I have never heard of this next stock it was on today with jim kramer and It was something that I don't know all about the recommendations and all the stuff that was there But what you were what this is a chart of snow flake and I don't know too much Okay, uh is the chart showing now. Let's double check it if we could please Okay, I don't know anything about it I don't I don't see pause. I don't know how to do that.  I can tell you that because when I put it in Click this and go live I don't know now we see it. Okay. This is a stock of snowflake. I don't know anything about it other than it was featured today on Jim kramer and evidently he knows the guy. Uh, I don't know. He's a very very famous fellow And uh that runs it or just came in to run it but you can see we went from 450 down to uh 100 and uh 150 so it dropped by two-thirds. Okay Well, you can see the patterns that are there the reason why i'm bringing you this up because what we're going to see Is this same type of pattern With snowflake that we're going to see it in the s and p We've already seen it in the nasdaq. We're going to see it big time in the nasdaq You know down the road here a little bit. I don't know if it'll be now But it's getting closer each day sometime by the summertime remember selen may go away Well, my sometime in july august is what my original hope is Then we'll have a nice little rally and set up a beautiful pattern like we've seen here You'll notice that the first pattern that you see here was the abcd At the uh 50 level perfect abcd and then I marked that with key time Then you went over and you saw the second one key time. Look how perfect they are folks. They're actually equal This is the you know the process of you know, you got to realize that market repeats over and over again And they repeat it usually the same way. That's right out of andrew lo's book And so that's what we're watching for we're waiting for that to happen Something like with what's happening with snowflake and you know all the others netflix Metaverse whatever they're going to be looking at we want to be able to identify some of these patterns And to really you know take advantage of it because I think we're going to see volatility keep increasing Much like we've seen for a long time. Now. I've had a question to answer. We were talking to Jeff uh huge yesterday from alpha insights and he was talking about the people that lost money on that tele moon etf or a crypto that went from 2.5 million down to two dollars and 35 cents And I interrupted him and I said yes, it happened to me too And then we I didn't want to take time away from Jeff But what happened to me was what happened when direct so went bankrupt And I in 1990 because I left direct so in 1982 and during those six and a half years that I was there Every month that I got a bonus which was every month and my bonuses were far far more Than my uh my salary folks my salary was uh, you know It was okay, but nothing like what my bonuses were each month based on performance And so I put all of that money because I didn't need the money I was I was making enough money to live really well You know living the dream and so I put all of my money into the direct so stock And my stipulation was when I left that you had to wait 10 years before you could cash your Your stock out and it was fine with me because it was going up every day That was not every day, but most of the days well in 88, of course They ran into trouble with the sec and milken and insider trading and all the stuff Ended up bringing the whole firm down with all 30 000 employees everybody went And everybody went to zero but when I got divorced Which was in 1986 right in the middle of that I uh was able to we split the house that we had two houses And we I gave gave her we split the houses. She got the inside I got the outside and I got the Drexel stuff and she got everything else Which was right down the middle and it was a really, you know, not high seven figures, but mid seven figures So I I was bucks up Two years later. I was bucks down, but uh that that happened, you know, I mean that's the second time you know That happened to me in 19 1974 and it happened to me again in 1980 89 I believe 90 and so It's no big deal. I I made it, you know I I never made it back to that level because I didn't want to make it back to that level I wanted to make a really consistent living Trading doing what I love to do and by gosh, I've been doing that and I'm going to continue doing it Until the trading gods said hey, you've had enough So that's why I wanted to mention to you that was it So I wanted to give you a rough idea of doing it during this time that I'm going to be taking off I will be doing the daily videos. John does the newsletter for me and he does a fabulous job He really does and so we'll be and anything really important come up I'll certainly spend some time, but I'm going to be doing a little bit of traveling One of our dear friends Is asked me to join them and I'm not sure whether I'm going to do that or not But I'm basically just going to take some time off and just check my emails each day And do the videos you know showing trades that we're doing those are simple things to do But the other preparation stuff I've got to get ready folks because you know, there are only so many marbles in the jar And I think this is going to be the big one and I've been waiting for A sign that tells me that's going to be it and when the phone call of a major in the day saying Hey, Bubba, it's time to take a break. So That's it. It's neither here or there. Well, anyway, we'll move on to To the other to the other things that I wanted to cover here in just a second It's very very important today on the Technical format here. Let me double check a couple of quick things here Ah, well the the natural gas is working a little bit It's really really super important folks that the s and p not go below the low today Which was 41 28 the the 38 to retracement of that whole move yesterday was 41 30 Go go look at the look at look at the the the Dow Jones made 50 percent The Russell made 38 and the s and p made 38 percent. I don't know what the NASDAQ did probably It did pretty much the same thing. So that's that's neither here to there So it's important that it doesn't go below 41 30 before below 41 30 Tells you that there's something wrong with the program In other words, they got a really good chance of breaking this thing out to the upside folks And there's a lot of negative news to think it's not going to do that But that's me, you know, you've got to be able to get in there and Get in get in there and be able to do it the best you can So that's uh What what we're looking at right now here as far as watching these things if you did sell that NASDAQ natural gas Up there at 96, uh, don't let it just put a $5 stop above your point and you got it You got it made a very low risk if it's right. Hey, we're going to be right back with none other Than tim boss financial cycles weekly can't miss 877 97 6 6 48 If you want to take advantage of this sector now is the time to subscribe to my gold report The gold report is a comprehensive look at the metals sector as well as the markets that move gold Which is the currency and bond markets news subscribers get a 30 day money back guarantee So you have nothing to lose every monday morning I publish the gold report with coverage of gold silver bonds the xa u h ui gdx as well as more than 30 different mining equities To sift yourself the types of profitable trades that are recommended within the gold report Sign up now by visiting tfnn.com. Don't miss out on the next great gold trade. Sign up today TFNN has just launched their new trading room the tiger zen hosted at discord TFNN has been educating traders for more than 20 years with live programming hosted by a variety of professional traders during market hours And now they are expanding their reach with the tiger's den available to all tigers and tiger's for just one dollar for the year There's no cash or added costs when you join our community of traders in the tiger's den You can look over the shoulders of tom o bryan and the other TFNN hosts while they analyze charts during their live tiger tv programs And join an interactive trading community with hundreds of members Exchanging ideas interact with other tigers and tiger's as they share trading ideas news analysis and discuss the market action All trading day even at night and on the weekends the tiger's den at discord is accessible on mobile or tablets as well So it's always at your reach to sign up today and become a part of this educational community of traders Just visit the front page of TFNN.com Tom o bryan has just announced a live timing the trade webinar friday june 10th from 9 a.m Until 2 p.m eastern time Join tom o bryan for five hours of live education as he teaches you his trading methodology Right from his best-selling book the art of timing the trade your ultimate trading mastery system In this live webinar tom o bryan will be teaching you his entire trading system including quality volume abc structures Fibonacci confluence zones cause and effect swing points and more We will be limiting this class to 40 attendees So please do not delay and reserve your seat today for this special live event with tom o bryan All attendees will also receive a physical copy of his book the art of timing the trade an 88 dollar value Mail to you along with the free month of his daily newsletter market insights a $169 value for all the details and to reserve your seat today Visit the front page of TFNN.com TFNN educating investors This segment is brought to you by think or swim for more information Just click the think or swim banner on the front page of TFNN.com Okay, we're back folks, and I believe we have one of our favorite people on the line down in bradenton, florida Tim boss financial cycles weekly tim. Are you there? I am indeed good to hear your voice, sir Hope you're doing well today. I'll live in the dream, baby on the green side of the grass We have a question for one of our listeners and the fact is you gave a s and p recommendation the last time you Were here that made five percent in two days They wanted to thank you for that and of course just like the restaurant business He wants to know what trades did you have for us today? So well, why don't you go ahead and start right into those here in a moment or two? go right ahead Yeah, what we're looking at this week is Based on an astrological event that's coming up here on saturday The the 11th of of june We've got a venus uh conjunction with a urinus And this is something that happens about once a year I put up here a list of dates from previous years and next couple of years here because Uranus moves very very slowly it has an orbit of about uh that takes about 84 years to go Once around the sun venus moves much more rapidly, of course, and so we we get these Uh opportunities when the two planets come together like this to combine their energies And it's interesting because traditionally, uh venus is associated with everything that's good true and beautiful You'll love money and art and things of that sort Urinus is all about surprises and explosions and disruptions and things that go boom So when we when we put the two of them together, it's a very interesting combination because We get the uranian effect of a surprise and a potential shift in market dynamics But with venus along for the ride what it typically means is things work out pretty well And so these are pleasant surprises rather than unpleasant ones by and large And so that's why we like to track this configuration And you know, we've done a lot of study with this and over the years and I find it a pretty interesting thing to to take a look at So what's happening right now again? This is coming up on saturday The 11th of of june And it'll be taking place shortly before 7 p.m. Eastern time new york time With that exact alignment. So this is not during trading hours per se But we always like to look at these alignments on our charts to see what else is getting triggered And in this case, we're getting a sun mars midpoint and a sun cronos midpoint Sun mars about directed activity expressions of masculine energy The use of military force Getting things done. I guess is is the the impetus with The sun mars dynamic and then sun cronos implies a leadership role And we're talking here about whoever's in charge the boss the the head man the big honcho and acting independently and Sometimes it's expressed through the power of the state if we're talking about a national Leader, but this can also apply to the market environment And so we're looking at things that are superior above average so to speak And so it's not uncommon when we see this configuration to see it associated with Rising markets and a little bit of bullishness. So overall, this looks very very positive This kind of reinforcement for this notion of uranus and venus coming together with the potential for pleasant surprises This says that we could get some action behind that as well In in in the market dynamics. So that's kind of our setup here for this week now as Is our habit here what we'd like to do is do some back testing And this is the pattern with the s and p 500 and When we do in this example here is as look at all the previous times from the history of the trading that we've got With the s and p we pick out all those dates when we had the venus uranus conjunctions before We see what the market has done in the past and then we average it all together and create this kind of diagram Which reminds us of our standard disclaimer past performance doesn't guarantee future results But this is what the past performance actually looks like in the aggregate So what typically happens here is about uh, oh three weeks prior to uh, the venus uranus conjunction We get a move upward in the s and p and it goes into a period of congestion then For about five weeks three weeks before about two weeks afterwards And it's a fairly tight trading range And then it kicks in to a move to the upside and begins to Establish a new trading level. That's what's characteristic over the long term So i'm looking at this what we try to do then is is pick out the optimum trade For this time around uh in terms of giving us the the highest probability of a winning trade And also the the best roi on that and so this is what we've come up with with this particular configuration And again, uh, the conjunction itself is happening here On uh on saturday But we sometimes we'll see uh moving in You know a day or two afterwards or before as as the optimum time for getting into a trade in this case with the s and p We believe it'll be to our advantage to hold off until monday the 13th of june And we're going to hold this position until nearly the end of the month there on the 29th of june Which is a wednesday to sell out that position based on our studies with our backtesting here This has almost a 72 Probability of being a winning trade 71.8 likelihood of it coming out in our favor So we like those odds. That's pretty attractive at that level the roi The expectation bad based on the historic performance here is uh a little a little over three quarters of one percent 0.78 percent Expected return on this Now we are noting here as well that right now we're in extremely volatile market conditions So would not be surprised to see a bigger swing Than this amount of return Although, you know, again, we can't guarantee that we're just the environment looks like that at this particular point And again, we we we gauge this in terms of the probability So, you know, we can't guarantee the returns But we can at least figure out what the risk is and that's why we do these kinds of calculations To allow allow traders to make their own judgments with these I can't make a question. Could you check on may the fifth? Didn't we have a venus urnus? Aspect a major one on venus urnus on may the fifth of this year I think it may have been a square venus moves pretty rapidly here So yeah, we get a number of alignments there during the course of the the year And so what I've been focusing on is just these conjunctions because that's the uh, the big daddy of them all So to speak that's a that's when you're that's a start. That's a zero degree. Correct Exactly zero degrees of separation opposition would be 180 180 right the squares are 90 degrees apart We look primarily at those Sometimes we also pick up the eighth harmonic which includes the 45 degree angle and the 135 degree angle as well as all those others So, you know, depends on how close we want to get with our studies there But every time we get any kind of alignment between venus and urnus. It's worth taking a look at It sure is. Yeah, sure. And you've done some extensive studies yourself. Yeah. Yeah, that that's the fibonacci You know venus goes around the earth 256 out of 365 days that's 0.618 of the year. So that's what dr. Miller said you know, you've got to be able to Start with fibonacci and I work backwards the other way but Shane Smollions also pointed out some of these things to me as far as the importance of timing So we're going to be watching. Yeah, it's definitely a combination to take to take a look at So let's look at another market. This is gold And we did the same thing with our backtesting with the venus urnus conjunctions in this case We also have that period of congestion But it's not it's a little bit tighter there and about two weeks after The date of the conjunction that zero point in the middle of the chart, by the way indicates the the conjunction date Which will be this saturday And we'll take a break and we'll be right back with tim boss financial cycles. We can stand with stay with us tim Are you in the market for buying or selling real estate in the bay area? Including the surrounding st. Petersburg tampa and clear water markets tiger real estate LLC is a firm that has extensive experience in the tampa bay area Whether you're looking to sell your current property for maximum value Or you're in the market for a second home or investment property Tiger Realty has the experience across all areas of real estate in the tampa bay area to help buyers and sellers Make the most informed decisions across all price levels from the price You should be paying per square foot in certain up and coming areas to the type of cash flow investment properties are capable of creating Tiger real estate can help you make the best decision when it comes to all areas of the market Before you make one of the biggest decisions of your financial future call tiger real estate LLC today at 727 329 83 22 or email us at tiger at tfnn.com. That's 727 329 83 22 call us today The technology around us is changing every day with so much happening. It can seem impossible to keep up with all the information David white's investment newsletter the technology insider is designed to give you all the information You need to understand the technology that shapes today's markets and tomorrow's future David white has made his living staying on the cutting edge of technology His weekly newsletter will give you specific recommendations for value tech stocks As well as entry prices target prices and stops to set for each trade Dave delivers his weekly newsletters every friday with updates throughout the week You can get the technology insider at tfnn.com for only 37 in 50 cents Sign up for david's newsletter the technology insider and get an inside look at everything the technology sector has to offer Try it risk-free today with our 30 day money back guarantee tfnn educating investors Are china a shares hot or not? If you trade china a shares now may be time to take a closer look trade chau or chad Directions daily csi 300 china a share bull and bear etfs china a shares in either direction Visit direction investments.com today an investor should consider the investment objectives risks charges and expenses of the direction shares carefully before investing the prospectus and summary prospectus contain this and other information about direction shares To obtain a prospectus or summary prospectus, please contact direction shares at eight six six four seven six seven five two three The prospectus or summary prospectus should be read carefully before investing an investment in the funds is subject to risk Including the possible loss of principal the funds are designed to be utilized only by sophisticated investors such as traders and active investors distributor four-side fund services This program is brought to you by vista gold traded on the nyse american and tsx under the symbol vgz Okay, we're back folks speaking with tim boss financial cycles weekly tim could we go over the gold venus erinus conjunction trade that you're looking at? Absolutely, this is our trading chart based on the uh the aggregate uh of past performance here And what we've looked at here is an optimum trade that looks like this in this case We're looking at actually entering the position later today We tend to enter our positions toward the the close most trading days And uh, but buying it today on the 8th of june holding till thursday of the 30th This has about a 66.7 or two-thirds probability of being a winning trade With an average expected return there of 1.93 percent So this definitely reinforces our generally bullish expectations for gold However, you know, we've seen a lot of congestion in in that market of late And this is a longer term position. We look at these swing trades Sometimes it's a matter of just a couple of days in this case several weeks Exposure in in that position We also have taken a look at the wheat and I have to confess I don't have any experience personally in trading agricultural's And but that's an important market, especially considering some of the current pressures on the fundamentals here with the war in ukraine and Supply chain problems and what have you so that's what got me curious about it in this case. We're using the chart for the etf The tukarim wheat fund which trades under the symbol we at And checking it there and in this case, it's an interesting pattern because again that zero point is the point of the venus uranus Conjunctions and When that hits, it's a very very definitive Deturning point in the prospects for the the wheat market And so it's always cool to see those very very powerful kinds of correlations like that when they they do pop up So this is a pretty definitive one in this case. Of course, we're looking at trading the etf Waiting till monday again to buy some shares there and selling on friday the 24th of june That has a 70 probability of being a winning trade with an expected ROI or the average r.i in the past being 3.11 percent a little over 3 return there So again, that looks fairly attractive to us from that perspective again based on My practically total ignorance of the agricultural markets But this is something curious to take a look at we can at least do the backtesting there as well And then we want to spend a little bit of time looking at bitcoin as well today because this is certainly something that Continues to fascinate us and we've seen a big big pullback in the cryptocurrency space overall Certainly bitcoin has been down and a lot of the other entities have have fallen with it and you know My take in general on the cryptocurrency space right now is that we could in fact see the bottom fall out of a number of these You know Less capitalized and and scantier covered cryptos In this space over the next few months So it continues to be a very very treacherous area to look at however I personally make an exception with bitcoin because it's been around longer than the others And we've got some trading history to look at here And my personal belief is that it has enough of a solid foundation And has reached the maturity as as a market that it's worth our attention here So in the past we've looked at these venus chronos planetary price lines as defining the support and resistance zones for bitcoin and As it was you know backing off from its high It's being extreme back in november You know, we were noting that our ultimate level of support we calculated was at 28,210 and here you can see that that has actually been Challenged and has served as a support zone pretty effectively You know over the the last couple of months here as this has gone through this major major pullback And so we're delighted to see that support holding there Currently earlier today was trading at about 30,450 range And what we're looking at right now as we look at our trading chart with bitcoin Is that we're seeing it bouncing off that support zone at 28,210 Which is a a chronos price line and it's moving up into the zone of this venus trend line So it Sometimes ignores the venus lines, but sometimes they can provide a good level of Of extra energy forth for the price action here And so we circle this next chronos line at 37,210. This is a potential price target You know, we have I think the the possibility at least of it hitting that as early as the 22nd of june Now that could be kind of a trial run there I'm not expecting it to penetrate that But we'll see if it tests that as resistance or or not If it does that's going to be very significant as a potentially bullish indicator Okay, I have a question for one of our listeners and is there anything In the astrological charts of these cryptos or tokens That gives a clue that maybe they they have a better chance of being Successful versus one or the other. Do you ever look at the birth charts of these? I do indeed and in fact, I was having a discussion with one of my students So yesterday and we were looking at at bitcoin specifically You know, we published our book a couple years ago called bitcoin astrology. It's available on amazon And in that we publish a lot of charts relative to Bitcoin and a lot of them associated with historic events in the development of the crypto space But one of the things that we look at is what we call the genesis block There are two Charts that we look at was regarding bitcoin. First was the proposal in early november of 2008 by satoshi nakamoto in which to propose the concept of Bitcoin and it didn't take long for that to be implemented and the the first block on the blockchain occurred on january the second in 2009 And what's interesting here is that as we look at these charts Uh, we can't locate them in a place Which is traditionally what astrology does and so we know that satoshi nakamoto posted his Proposal from a computer that was in singapore at the time. There was a server in singapore So we can locate that one there the two most popular charts for the the The first block or the genesis block in the blockchain Were for sydney australia and for tokyo And in our book we decided to also do that chart for Greenwich England and the prime meridian there is kind of a universal approach What happens with that is that the part of fortune which is a movable point in the chart Is at 17 degrees of torus so for bitcoin then this Venus urn is conjunction that we just mentioned at the The 16 degrees 52 minutes mark of torus is hitting right on top of that Significant point in that particular chart for bitcoin. We believe it provides some reinforcement for us And in fact, we did look at our back testing with that as as well here With bitcoin and as you can see congestion and a big spike upward about 10 12 days after The event based on this we've got a trading strategy Uh as as well here Tim will you stay with us for just a second, please? Absolutely We'll be right back folks tim boss financial cycles weekly Sharpening your skills as an investor is like getting better at playing a musical instrument You have to practice sure, but you also need excellent instruction from experts at tfnn You'll get advice and guidance from the authority and technical market analysis And it's not just dry tedious text either tfnn airs live financial content streamed live on tfnn.com and tfnn's youtube channel with tiger tv Live every market day from 8 30 a.m. To 4 p.m. Eastern for free Each host is an experienced trader and gives their take on the market while taking calls and questions live from around the world From the moment the market opens until the closing bell sounds tiger tv has eight different shows with expert hosts to help You make the right moves with your money watch online at tfnn.com or on tfnn's youtube channel And become the investor you were born to be tfnn educating investors You might think that if you want to be successful at trading in the stock market You're going to need a crystal ball after all it's impossible to predict the future, right? 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We usually have some wonderful Informational webinars. Yeah, anything coming up to indeed indeed indeed We're doing a webinar tomorrow in fact and we'll be talking about How you can grab the top three money astrology secrets? for easy stock market success In order to connect with that To go to this link. We've got bit.ly slash tim larry p And that's all lowercase except for the initials there t for tim l for larry p for pace of into bit.ly slash tim larry p We'll let you sign up for our list for all of our webinar notifications and as I say we're planning to offer this one tomorrow after the closing and so Go ahead and connect with us today and we'll make sure you get on that notification list So that you can sign up for that free webinar So we spend a little bit of time talking about current market conditions Astrological trading strategies and then what we've got coming up next with some of the new training tools and Projects that we are having development right now Do you still offer the deputy gan course tim? I do in fact. We have two levels of the course again plan trading success 101 and 102 and we came out with the 102 version three or four months ago And I've had some great responses to that as well. If you have an interest of that Go ahead and Contact me my personal email is tim at timbost.com and be glad to Send you information on that if you're interested in the gan materials We have had a number of students work with us in that area continue to explore The infinite riches in wd cans material lost to get puzzled with there along the way It's great. A lot a lot of material for sure. Listen. Thanks for joining us today, buddy We appreciate it stay on the green side of the grass live in a dream, buddy All right, my pleasure. We'll talk with you Tim boss financial cycles weekly folks stand up guy We'll see you tomorrow folks live every day in an attitude of gratitude and may god bless


Good afternoon everyone, I think we can wait one more minute or something and then we can get started. Alright, I think we can get started. Let me see, I think it's already recording. Yeah. Okay. So welcome everyone to the earth from JavaScript working group call of May 18. I need to remember you to abide by the higher blood code of conduct and anti trust policy. If you would like to add yourself to the tennis list, feel free to do so so people know you are here. Yeah, I think I did, but I'm trying to look probably. I didn't always a hassle to find the correct page in confluence. That's why I don't want to navigate. Yes, I can understand that. Yeah, so if you would like to add yourself to the tennis list feel free to do so. Is there anyone new here today that would like to introduce themselves. I think I recognize almost all names. Alright, then we can get started. The right away. Are there any status updates on different projects that people would like to report on. Okay. Then I think we can get started straight away with the agenda. We have a presentation from cream on how the repo is structured and with all the new things we're adding that are not arise and how that works. I don't know what, if you have a title for cream. I do it's very cheesy though. What is it. It's the future architecture of areas framework JavaScript with a cheesy subtitle navigating the changing areas ecosystem. That was just a bit. Alright, well, so that's the presentation concrete. Anything else we would like to add to the agenda for today. And I think we could discuss. Did comfy to work in more detail. Okay, I saw there are some PRs. Any other things. I know we were going to have a discussion on the wall API at some point. I don't see a rail here today. Any other topics. Sorry. I suggest maybe, maybe I just wanted to suggest discuss and suggest others about as card libraries. And honestly, we just still suffer a bit because of using only the latest version of iOS. Yeah, hi. So actually, I've seen some new pull request merged into areas Oscar I believe yesterday. This lower areas version support. And I believe it should be done soon for individual. Is it right. Yeah. Yeah, it should be. I'm not sure though if parent has already tested if it fully works now in like with the new release. But yeah, I think is now done on pets RS and errors Oscar and and only left to do is the R. Yeah, I just saw it before the meeting so yeah. It's a good progress. And I think yeah, changes that parent has done are closing all issues that they created, I believe, because he also corrected bundle name and so on. So I think once we'll get all three shared component libraries, including in the video, we can just test it on our site. And of course we'll provide some feedback, maybe I will just write results to the issues that I created. Okay, yeah, that sounds good. Okay. Perfect. I think to like continue on the shared components then I think the other final thing that needs to be done is like the lower version support for Android as well which we have to custom cross images for. I think clay show you were able to build it in get up actions right the custom images or not. Yes. So I'm just making some changes and then I got to provide to bear it soon. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Then we can. I think if that's done. Beards can integrate those into the different pipelines. Are you going to publish like make it a hyper lecture repo and publish them to the hyper lecture GitHub container registry or I'm going to provide to bear because I'm not quite sure we have a repo for the shared for the cross shared images yet and I don't know if you should create a new repo or what is this plan is or would be stay with animal for now as it's easier path. I'm not sure if we can just create a repo and a hyper lecture I think that that would work fine as well. But I do think it will be nice to have it as a separate repo because it will be used by all the shared components three point and we can at least make sure that they have like a consistent build setup and Android version support across those. If you just like transfer to us or like provide us with a link then I can go to the process with rye of adding it to hyperledger. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Okay. And I think that's it on the shared components stuff. Then we can get started cream do you want to screen share. Yeah, that might be good. Let me see if that works. Please let me know. God, I think my screen. Is this presentation view visible. Yeah. Well, as you, you presented it as a presentation. I do have some slides but it's not really a presentation. I guess it's more of a discussion. We have had internally in animal and. Yeah, I think stuff has been changing recently. And what makes this even more relevant so I'd like to open the discussion here to see what other people think of it so a little bit of background why are we discussing this. Well, we all know areas was initially conceived in the in the ecosystem. And as a result, we, well, all or most areas implementations at first dependent on the in the SDK. And as well. And did come was also part as being part of areas was also baked into the core. And quite some stuff has changed over the last, well, years, I guess. Recently we extracted what one we modularized a day. Recently we extracted in the SDK from the core shared components were added. We now have a separate packages for the unknown credits format. Also, because that became its own hyperledger project. In the meantime, did come as moved away from areas and is now being maintained by Dave. New supports for other credential formats, like the link to receive for months we added support for checks. Other protocols exchange protocols like open ID is is well is still being worked on but issuance side of it has partly been added. And now we also have an ongoing discussion, which was partly held yesterday during the areas call, if they want to do with areas, if areas is going to be moved to the open wallet foundation, or stays as is. And so, because of that, I think we things are a little bit messy right now to give you some examples of this. We now have unknown credits, or what logic related to the unknown credits credential format in their own packages. But that W3 CPC related format stuff still lives in core. Did come is part of core. Did come transports, some of them, like the HTTP and Web so could transports live inside core, while the Bluetooth transport lives in the extensions repository. We have all kinds of did come based protocols that are also part of core. Think issue credential, I present proof, while others live in have their own module action menu being one of them, for instance. Yeah, so this raises, I think a few questions. One is what is the scope of core, should it contain modules like now core is a is its own package but in the in the core source, we have, we have a directory modules that has all kinds of modules. So, to credential, or is a module present proof, the protocol and related stuff for that is its own modules. Is that something we want should, because should we have modules live in the core package as well as outside of the core package is a question you could ask. Should we have like credential or proof format specific logic living core, or should we have that outside of core again this goes back to the first point here is that we have. In the Anocrates format we have separate packages, but the w3c format is still part of core with the move from did come out of the areas ecosystem to or, or, well it's, I guess, you can just, you can argue if it's still part of areas yes or no but it moved to to div. Is that still something we want to be part of core or should that be like a separate module you can you can either include or not. Let's say you only have you only want to use open ID then there is really no no point in including that logic to your project. Should court also have like transport did come transport implementations, or should we just make or a very lean package that basically only as a dependency manager defined some basic interfaces for modules and stuff. And for the rest every everything. Yeah, lives separately from the core package. Then you can also ask. We currently have to repositories with the main AHA repository we have extensions repository. What is the scope of those and where do we draw the line. Do we want to include all modules in the main repository. This means that like whatever funky module someone comes up with that that the main repository is the place for that. Should we include only include modules in the main repository and this is an example of this is is that come transports. Should we include them there. Or should we maybe say no transport session or an extension of did come so we put them in extensions repository. We don't want to include modules, we don't want to include at all, or that we don't want to maintain. Again, let's say some contributor has a very writes a module for a very obscure database for instance. Should we, as as the community, take it upon us to maintain that yes or no. And what is the scope of the extensions repository. Initially, it was mostly stuff built on AFJ. You can think of the react, react hooks, which is like it's a helper library that you can use with AFJ but it's not part of AFJ itself. The same goes for the Redux store. We don't want to also have modules live in the extensions repository. And lastly, like, does it doesn't even make sense to maintain both we've seen quite some difficulties with maintaining or keeping the diversions. How do you say that they sink, I guess. And so it, like, doesn't it make more sense to put everything in one repository. Here are just some two ideas that were discussed but obviously, I'd like to open the discussion after this. So one idea is just to keep it as is sort of so areas from a JavaScript stays areas focused, whatever areas turns out to be because that's also a bit of a question. But so the main repository just stays focused on areas. So here I am assuming that did come will will will be be considered and keeping considered part of areas. But this would mean that open ID related protocols, for instance, would live in their own repository. This raises all kinds of questions like, again, is did come part of areas, and therefore also all relate protocols is in the, do we consider in the part of areas, and thus, doesn't have the right to live in the main repository in the same way that we're at W3C, because W3C is not a every standard, but well the areas protocols, or the did come protocols, allow for other formats so you could argue, if other formats then also should be included just for now. And the same goes for PECs, the presentation exchange, which the present proof to present proof V2 protocol relies on, and also if we're going to like make all kinds of different repositories, we probably get into even more difficulties with regards to maintenance. So the other idea is just to make every framework JavaScript a sort of generic SSI framework, and I think, like, we're moving towards that more and more. And this would mean like we don't. Yeah, we welcome, like any standard SSI related standard protocol into the main repository. So in that case open ID related protocols would will have the right to live there, not in core. So in this case we would make core a strictly a dependency manager, again with some basic interfaces to to interface with the dependency manager. But then that also means we move every, like all the business logic so think of well did come related logic. We would move all the protocols so issue credential etc etc logic related to specific credential formats through formats etc etc we would move all that out of the core package still in the main repository, but out of the core package and give everything their own package slash module. Yeah, this was it basically. Welcome. But yeah, this has been has been keeping me up at night. So it's, I'm happy to discuss this. I'll stop the screen share now. And yeah. Are there any ideas, preferences about this. I know you have a lot of ideas. I have comments. So, as you mentioned, open wallet and I was not in the call this week. So, I'm going to have to watch the recording to catch up with the, with that conversation specifically. I think, I think it may be areas JavaScript might be morphing into something I don't know if it's. I don't know if you be something like the open wallet or, or it's just a generic area more than areas agent right because it's going to support multiple protocol it's seems to be evolving to something else and I can't quite figure out what it is, but, but it's more than areas. That's the problem, isn't it. But, but I do take your point and have multiple repositories and sometimes have a multiple repositories blessing occurs. And I feel like those components are so tightly coupled version wise that it's, it makes sense that they you're all together, the extension and, and just breaking down multiple packages we already have right now. With regards to did calm. We already using the breast library or is that the JavaScript library from diff. Is that. No, we're using any diff libraries currently from implementation. So, and I think if that is the future for us I think we should maybe consider that as well because if we already have, we're really not dealing with the, with the storage part because we rely on ask our we're really not really dealing with some some of the concrete stuff because that's moving from another to another library as well so so it feels like more and more the areas JavaScript is becoming more of a thin layer around bringing all those other libraries together in a developer friendly way he's more more of a facility than than it's more of a kind of a sugar syntax as opposed to re implementing things. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's the goal because if the goal is to bring everything together to the for the for the JavaScript community to to use, or is the goal to keep it as JavaScript implementation as possible. Yeah, so that is a good question. But, but I think regardless of if we implement stuff in in JavaScript ourselves or use a rust library or whatever. And the main question here is what what, and this is also something we cannot answer in this call and should be like further discussed, I think higher up. Is like what is areas is areas is did come still part of areas. And if so, like, should we make because currently you cannot you, like even if you want to make a 100% open ID related agent, which now is probably not the right time because we don't have everything implemented yet but but that will soon be the case. You don't have the choice right you include your did come logic. So should we externalize that. Yes or no, which I find difficult to answer because it really depends on on what we consider areas to be. And if we want to make the framework, like, or if we want to keep the framework and areas and like focused on that yes or no. So I think for me personally I would switch it around not look at what is arise but more on like what do we want AFJ to be. And then see if that fits in the model of arise. Yeah, yeah that makes sense. Yeah, what I my personal preference is because I just think with all the changing the big changing ecosystem and and also like in Europe, people, or the European Union has been jumping on open ID so there's probably a lot of people wanting to do that. And while there are other. Yeah, other organizations and parties in more interested in Bitcoin. I think the most like the last option. I mentioned like just areas framework JavaScript as a generic as a side framework makes the most sense because I think it will be usable for the most amount of people. So but it will not be called areas framework JavaScript is called SSI framework JavaScript. Right. This is the difficult thing. Yeah. Yeah. Does the name make sense then. I think it lately. We are not sure that that's something that we were discussing some month ago in our philosophical sessions. Karim. But even if it's not clear for everyone. What's areas is about right. I think there is some agreement that areas is a is a collection of RFCs. So, and what we are doing in this project is implementing. What's on the on those RFCs in the areas RFCs repository. So I'm wondering, I have to talk to us about about this. One of those is what's the relationship between the open ID connect to areas right now. I mean, is there any RFC related to open ID. So it's that the case I don't know if it's at least at the current status of the projects. I don't think it's, it actually makes sense to have that into the main repository. But, but as you as all you say, all of you say probably there will be some relationship with between both projects that say or I mean, especially if we are now considering to, I don't know if to marriage or what to do with the with the open wallet foundation that clearly will use open ID. But, and the, and the second thought was that most, if not all RFCs, well, not not all, but most, most RFCs in areas are related to this come. So, I don't know if it will be really useful to, to externalize that it comes support. Because otherwise, I mean, if we do so, we will always need an external dependency to make a project work. So, yeah. So just just to clarify, like there are two, I think two levels of externalization, if you will, of this. So what I was referring to was especially like it did come is now part of the core package itself. And the main repository because that's where the core package lives, but like should it be part like question one it shouldn't be part of core. Or can it also be moved from core still in the main repository but as its own module. So your to the question before that, yes, you're right, like most areas protocols not all but most areas RFCs are based on on did come. But if you look in in at I don't know what is it did come to the work or something the website that's maintained by this, those protocols now also live there. So, and that is where they are maintained, I guess, and and for now probably new protocols are developed they will also be become an areas RFC and then also also they've gone to come to the work, which makes it very confusing and difficult, obviously, but yes, absolutely. So, yeah, I don't know what it's a mess. Okay, I understand. I think it makes sense what you are saying about about living all the interfaces for the for the core package I mean to maybe to extract all the, all the proofs and credential protocols and that stuff to separate modules like action menu or question answer for instance. Actually, recently we had some a sort of of this extraction when we did extract the proof and credential protocols, the one I think we moved those to one on credit and it works. I mean, it was fine. So, so yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, sorry. Those are those are only the implementations right. Yes, yes. Yeah, because that's the one. Yeah. But then again like because for v2. You can have multiple implementations right you can like that you have different formats, group format services and preventive format services again. So those interfaces. If we define those interfaces in core it's still like core still is a did come as a strong relationship to did come. So the question is do we want to make a separate like did come package and I think we have to be very careful with this because like if I'm just thinking about this, we will like just just extracting did come and related protocols from the core means we like the amount of packages is going to grow immensely. And like for then it would mean you have to install 1000 packages before you can do what you want. Which I forgot to mention in my presentation which is also something like in the last in the last option, like making it a very generic SSI framework. In that case. Yeah, exactly this. So, yes, what you're saying, like then if we do that we should we should really consider making sensible default packages. Okay, boom, one install command I have all those modules pooled in. Do I want open ID. Fine, I maybe do an open ID holder package and boom I have everything for the open ID stuff and then I don't know you can like maybe credential format specific stuff at their own date default packages but like if we're going to go that route we really need to do that because otherwise, that it will be so confusing. For me, it makes sense to make it more a generic SSI framework as well because I think at least what we've noticed is that when you're now building SSI agents, wallets, whatever. There's like, it's becoming less and less of the requirement like oh you need to build an errors agent know it's like there's different profiles and there's different things and you need to support them all so I think having separate framework makes things harder especially if if AFJ is the thing that combines the different implementations that are already there. And then having all the other protocols and exchange stuff implemented but still seeing it as an arise framework where did come is first class citizen but the others aren't then also don't make a lot of sense to me I think like if we're going to support them we should just support them. And means extracting did come out of core I would say so you can have a core that's lean you can add did come and if you add did come you can add all the different protocols for errors into a profiles and then you can also add open ID, and the core is just an underlying interfaces that connects everything, mostly also related to crypto so if you support like Edward signatures, you can support those in in all the arise protocols or things that need it, or in the open ID stuff or if you support the credentials that you can use that with both the, the arise issue credential v2 protocol Jason or the format or you can also use that same implementation across for the open ID implementation so that it all becomes like the underlying packages can be reused so that we never have to reimplement things but it is more separated I think in my head that makes the most sense. And then we do need to account for the, like, how do you set it up in a good way where it's not like you have to install 100 packages because I have also noticed that with the current version that that is already like quite a lot. I, I do, I do it very often like in creating and test setup with AFJ to test a specific scenario and like the increase from zero three, installing two packages to zero four where it can be like up to six or seven or something that makes it a lot of complexer but there is a lot more flexibility now which is nice but yeah I think that's the only thing we would need to like with the separate like splitting it up is like okay how can we keep bundled logic that you probably want together. For example, a IP one. Yeah, because then the question is, I think, like, if you're going to bundle these or make these defaults. On basis of what are you going to do that and I think intro profiles make a lot of sense to say okay IP one is one but there are, I don't know, like the European Union has their family has finished their thing and that has a name, then that might be a profile. But maybe there are other defaults, like, we should, we should not like intro profiles are one thing, but like maybe people would also want to use it purely as a difficult messenger, for instance. So, yeah. Then, then I think we get we get in. We need to. Yeah, really define what a bundle is and what it isn't. Or maybe it's okay to get to let me keep it completely open. And I think it's still if you like, but we currently have if you now want to build a did com messenger with AFJ. You also have a lot of things enabled that you don't need so I don't think it's such a problem that if you want to build that you just pick one that aligns with that, which would probably be like right I want to use did comfy to so I'm then choose just a IP three package. And if you have really custom needs you can always like create your own bundle that is lightweight. But I think, yeah, I think having some extra dependencies you may not need is not too big of a problem. I think that's the case right now. Yes, we are trying to like with this move we are trying to change that right. So for instance, like, like, to me it makes total sense to extract it come from it because that because right now you don't have a choice. And in the future people might really not want to use that come at all, which is, it doesn't make sense to any of us I know, but these monsters exist. So, so so the point here is also to extract stuff but then indeed you could also say okay well if you want to go that deep then then you'll have to run like 40 install commands yourself. So I, I'm just missing a little bit of a visual if you can if you could provide with a little bit of a block diagram of those things that'll be helpful. I can work that out. Yeah, I understand that separating did come and make it reusable. You mentioned for instance, for instance, I use case people who are using just an agent as a did come messenger. Do we understand how people are using FJ right now is that is that an opportunity for us to ask, ask around and sort of survey, like, how are you how are you using FJ is it just a, is it really just a areas and no credit agents. So, and yeah, sorry, go in. Yeah, so I just feel like I don't want to go around the SSI terminology I'll rather stick with VC, just another comment. Yeah, I just just kind of feel I need a little bit of a diagram to set okay what is. Okay, we're talking about areas framework JavaScript if I can create a mental connection to areas occupy cloud agent. I can see this being as kind of a some sort of wallet agent or areas agent whatever want to call for JavaScript. And we need to talk about, okay, there's a storage part that is independent of anything. There's a transport protocol that could be did come could be something else could be different types of credentials that goes through that transport protocol. And then there's W3C that is kind of a wrapping everything together I know I've been having conversations with Steven that maybe we should just move towards adopting that as the default standard that I know Craig always wrapped in W3C that would also answer that question. Yeah, not sure if I have there's more questions than answered that. That makes sense and I do think that diagram is a very good idea to see like it's okay if we would do this, how would because also how would the dependencies between all these different packages look like right because you would have like if we're going to externalize every did come protocol, they, you cannot use them just without and they come itself so all the protocols and they come, like the core logic of did come like then they would, that did come package would always be needed for all the other so it's, I think it's a good idea to sort of visualize the dependency that we would end up with. Yeah. And to be fair, I've heard comments about did come doing too many things. So, there might be a possibility that did come itself goes through a refactoring and split things up. Yeah. And as for your question like how are people using it yeah, maybe a survey is not a bad idea. Like if I just from from what I see in the community and here is I think most people are definitely using AFJ, especially currently for mobile agents and they like they always are usually do something with credentials. I think the pure pure did come messaging agent. I think I will demo created one, I think, but I don't think a lot of people are doing that. But yeah, I do think that that did come is such a broad, as you said, maybe it's doing too much or it's too generic it's such a broad thing that to me personally is a very sensitive diet to verifiable credentials necessarily, because it just has a lot of possibilities and applications outside of that scope. And, and to add to that, again, as a maintain of areas bifold, we do get a lot of comments and sometimes misunderstanding about what is bifold what is the FJ and I just recently had meetings about as we are using bifold is like, well, no, you're just using FJ, which is great. So, so I sometimes I feel like there's a little misunderstanding, even though I know FJ can be used as the issue verify and not just the holder part of it so it's more generic than that bifold is more focused on the holder part. But it's also evolving now with the mobile verifier we also have that. So, so I feel like FJ the way that I simply explained to other people is like for me, FJ is kind of headless UI agnostic bifold. So if you don't want to, if you don't want any opinionated way of how the navigation supposed to be that is the core that's that's what is JavaScript. And, and I don't, I don't know, I've been thinking about if maybe even there's a possibility that this could simply merge maybe bifold core is what areas JavaScript is. So I think the one, yeah, with the one thing there I would like to argue is, although AFJ is mainly used in mobile situations. It is, it is also possible to use it server side. We are using it ourselves for server side component. It's not super popular. But so merging it with bifold necessarily. I don't think that makes too much sense because yeah, that would sort of take away the generic sort of multi platform ish. That's fine. Yeah. And as I said, there is even even like every now and then I guess now there is a hype on AFJ as a mediator. Again, it's a feature that it's there and not quite sure how production ready that is but it's there. But I think we need to make those questions whether it is supported and and kind of endorse for for production use case and we should be clear when a feature or something is intended as a production or is intended as a kind of a playground or it's evolving right this is just a kind of a lab thing that may evolve to be production supported or it may just stay there as a lab thing. I mean I think I think we should intend to make everything production ready right if we merge it in so like a mediator. I guess yeah I mean if you can mediate and it's not production ready then then how much sense does it make to have it in the first place I mean they will definitely probably be a period of time where it isn't because of scalability issues but I think that should be the aim of anything we merge in that it should be used in production. Is this is anybody using FJ a kind of a as a scalable server side. Does it is it scalable can have multiple. If I'm running in a cloud open like Kubernetes does it support multi pods is resilient to do what kind of properties are features we we're supporting. By the way we're using it currently in the development. And I think I can share that we encountered some issues after some initial loading testing. We somehow managed to bring areas framework JavaScript storage to a state where it was really really slow. After testing it with thousands of requests per second or sometime we actually found that our storage in postgres become. Well I suppose that it was the storage but it's just become very slow. So it was the case. On our side. But in future we plan to make more tests and load and scalability tests. And right now we use only one instance for generic agency and honestly the same for database. Of course, we don't keep a high load in this situation. And during the next few months we will have a lot and scalability test and of course, we'll be happy to share our results. Yeah. Yeah, I also have some more questions about mediators so by the way, do we have some deployment or public mediator that based on FJ currently. We have a like a deaf mediator but it's like not in a it's it's just for development so it doesn't it doesn't set up to handle very high loads or these kind of things. Yeah just for the context recently we encountered some strange problem with implicit mediator strategy pick up pick up strategy in areas by fault and FJ based mediator. So basically we connected areas by fault to FJ based mediator to implicit pick up strategy. And there was a case where we just restarting the areas by fault app and we can't receive any messages from mediator later, but this is not the case for pick up protocol version two. We just change the conflict and it's just become all normal action. Yeah I would have advice against using the implicit way because there's, yeah, quite some limitations with how it works and how many messages so I would recommend to use pick up feed to either way. Actually that implicit support was mostly left to support what's in Akapai right it's not something that is actually standardized. So yeah I noticed that most of the mediators are using Akapai and yeah with Akapai based mediators there are no issues whatsoever. And I think I will bring together some details about this issue and probably will create an issue in areas framework repository two. Yeah maybe it's just not critical as you're saying that implicit strategy is not really good but at least for the record, it will be useful I think. And I think on these things like scalability is one thing I would like to explore more over the coming months is also of not using like Oscar as a encrypted database, because I think in a lot of scenarios like using a custom layer that encrypts all data and I think that there's, I think a lot of performance gained to be held from just using for example, a relational database directly without encrypting everything and I think for a lot of use cases for as a mediator. It is not really needed to use a secure encrypted Oscar storage as long as you have your keys managed in a good way but like using a database directly which are really built to scale. There are insane amounts of like traffic and records I think we can have a lot of performance gain in using it in the server but we have to look at okay how can we like correctly map the records we're using an AFJ to like relational database structures and then these kind of things. That's what I was going to say. Isn't the problem or the main scalability problems related to the storage. Isn't this happening also to to occupy. I have seen in the in the latest month that there were some concerns in a cup by also to for the for the mediator scalability and what mostly for mediators right but because of the handling of the Web sockets and that stuff. But also for for issues. It's a little bit different. I could buy does abstract that out so you could use a relational database and, and see the records being encrypted so. So, so again, it sounds like we're evolving a little bit more there so that storage layer I think yes, I think it's, it's probably worthwhile to abstract that out and not necessarily have a strong dependency to ask our directly could be something but I just want to make a note, since the Timo you put mobile holder wallet, I just want to make sure that that is evolving right now that mobile wallets also verify it. And probably be a issues as well as new issues issues will be coming. Yeah, I'll put that on a separate separate line because I think it's like a difference in use case and how often. Yeah, and I think, I think mainly like mobile is a bit easier in this case because you don't have the scalability issues. So I think like a mobile is your wallet we probably also work fine it's just that when you go to the server side and you want to handle like a lot of traffic then. Yeah, there's still a lot of limitations in in AFJ probably and also in the storage layer and everything. I think in mobile it's a little bit of a different lenses is not scalability in the factor that we, we're not going to have multiple copies, but performance issue important. We wanted to be super quick startup. So, so, so the startup the performance the loading has it's important, but not the scalability and redundancy point of view. And also what we are facing at the moment in our app, you know that our application is, is mostly a chat application based on the FJ. And when we, we have to manage lots of several events, like, for instance, receiving a message. We were marking things, I mean chats as read or something like that. If we are going to, to rely completely on, on, on AFJ storage. We, we are having some, some problems on that. So, what we are doing right now is, is to, for the moment is to offload some of the, of the parts of the application to, to another kind of database like realm to, to manage those events in a more lightweight way. It's not easy to admit, at least for us, which, because we are not so experts on how to recognize the one that stuff, right. But it's, it's a bit difficult to, to get some instant reaction of the, of the events when, when they come very fastly, I mean, several times per seconds, or more or less. And, and also another issue that, that you already know, Timo, because we were talking about that in the last month as well, it's about the, the pagination, which is, which is not easy to, to, to have in, in a secure database like Ascar, or, or in the, because even if you, you can support the offset and the, on the limits. If there are, if there are some new records added to the, to the, to your query, to your query, let's say you will need to handle the pagination in a different way, for instance, by by taking the, the records before that some particular date and also order the records by date, for instance, by created at, for instance. And currently, the sorting is not supported by, by Ascar. At least not for, for the, for encrypted tags, because it's not possible to sort when you have encrypted that tax, it's something obvious, but, but, but it's, it's a problem in, in such cases. I think we can make this a topic to discuss in the, maybe next week or in the future on like talking on these issues. Because I think they're very relevant, and there's a lot of improvements probably to be made. And it should be more flexible probably so I think we can pick that up in the future, and probably, probably also something we can pick up separately from like the future architecture of Ericsson JavaScript. I see we're at time. I think this was a good discussion. I don't think we came to a conclusive answer. I think we are in a, in a, in a direction. Like, we need, like, I think people liked the idea of like having a more generic SSI framework, just need to see like what's going to be included, we won't be able to do, make the change in one day anyway. So, maybe we all think a bit more about like right. So, if this is going to be more of a generic framework, what would that mean like what would the structure look like cream can work on the, yeah, we can ask around a bit and then also like what would that mean like do we still have an AI framework in that case then what is the scope of areas I think we can continue that discussion. Yeah. Yeah, I'll, I'll try to write up or draw up a diagram for next week. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, thanks everyone and thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thanks goodbye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye.