Now let me show you something else. What we're doing there goes by the name Simple Regression. What I'm going to show you here is called Multiple Regression, works the same way except that your relationship can involve more than two variables. We can have several things here. So in this example, you're a trucking company and your goal is to schedule the trucks and as part of your scheduling the trucks, it's necessary for you to be able to estimate how long the trucks will be gone.  On the other hand, I don't want someone to come in and say, I'd like to move a shipment from A to B and I have no trucks to give him. So this becomes important to me to be able to estimate how long trucks will be gone. And I walk into the room assuming that there are really two things that influence the travel time. Maybe there are other things as well, but they fall out into the noise. The two important things, the things that I can control or have some vision into are these, miles traveled, number of deliveries. So I figured the more miles a truck travels, on average, the more time it's going to take to leave and come back. The more deliveries it makes, the more time it's going to take, because this goes out and makes lots of deliveries, it's going to take more time before it comes back to the shipping yard. So what we see here is data on travel time for a handful of trips that our trucks have made, miles that the trucks have traveled and deliveries that they've made. And you can see in this data set, we've got a total of 87 hours of travel time. These trucks traveled a combined 4,000 miles and made a combined 29 deliveries. So the question is this, how can I use this information to predict travel time? Let's try a couple of straightforward things. So the way I'm going to use this analysis is to answer the question, I have a truck that's going to travel 325 miles and make two deliveries. And I'd like to know, how long is this truck going to be gone? I'm going to use this data to try and come up with an estimate for how long the truck will be gone. And let's start off by doing something that seems pretty straightforward. I have here in my data set a total of 87 hours of travel time. And these trucks that traveled 87 hours traveled a combined 4,000 miles. So if I simply do the division, my trucks on average are taking 0.022 hours for every mile that I travel. So if I've got a truck that's going to travel 325 miles, I can do 325 x 0.022 and I get 7.2 hours is my estimate for how long the truck will be gone. That's not bad. It's a straightforward thing to do. I've calculated average hours per mile and done the multiplication. Here's a problem. I have data not just on average miles on the number of miles traveled. I also have data on number of deliveries. And I could use number of deliveries to estimate how long my truck will be gone. So in this data set, my trucks were gone a total of 87 hours and combined they made 29 stops. That's three hours per delivery. So if I have a truck that's going to be gone making two deliveries, three hours per delivery times two deliveries, that's six hours. Notice my problem now. I've got two conflicting estimates for how long my truck will be gone. On the one hand, if I look at hours per mile traveled, I'm estimating that my truck's going to be gone 7.2 hours. On the other hand, if I look at hours per delivery, I find that I estimate my truck's going to be gone six hours. So which is it? Is it 7.2 hours or is it six hours? You might be tempted to just take the average of the two and say, look, I figure I'm estimating how long I'm going to be gone. If I estimate it according to miles, it's 7.2 hours. If I estimate according deliveries, it's six hours. Just average the two together. All right. It's not very satisfying because it's kind of just ad hoc. Why would you necessarily average these together? Why not add them? Why not do powers or something? A much better approach here is to use what's called a multiple regression analysis. In the multiple regression analysis, we walk into the room and we say, look, I believe there's a relationship between hours of travel time, miles traveled, and deliveries made. And furthermore, I believe the relationship looks like this. Hours is some number A plus some other number B times miles, plus some other number C times deliveries, plus noise. Now, the computer can tell me what A, B, and C are. U, the noise, these are things that affect the hours, the travel time, other than miles and deliveries. So things like, my driver got pulled over and inspected or he spilled a cup of coffee on himself and had to stop.  All these little pieces of noise that will influence hours, all that stuff gets lumped into you. And I want to blow all of that away so that I'm looking at this pristine relationship with all the noise gone. Just show me the relationship between miles, deliveries, and hours. So if we run a regression on this, we feed the whole thing through the computer. The computer comes back and says, OK, you've got this cloud of data that's miles, deliveries, and hours. And the line, or in this case, or plane, because it's three-dimensional, that fits the data most closely is this.  So let's look at these numbers separately. The 0.01 times miles, what is that? The 0.01, remember, measures the magnitude of the relationship between miles and hours. So this tells me, on average, traveling an additional mile will add 0.01 hours to your trip. On average, traveling an additional mile will add 0.01 hours to the trip. 0.92 is the parameters attached to deliveries. And that measures the magnitude of the relationship between deliveries and hours. So this says, on average, making an additional delivery will add 0.92 hours to your travel time. Making an additional delivery will add 0.92 hours to your travel time. Now here's where life gets fascinating. Regression analysis, when you have more than one factor in here, like we have miles and deliveries, we've got two factors here, trying to explain hours. When you put more than one factor into a regression analysis, what the regression analysis gives you back is what's called the marginal effect. So the 0.01, technically speaking, we would call the marginal effect of miles on hours. The 0.92, we would call the marginal effect of deliveries on hours. What does that mean? It means that 0.01 is the effect of an additional mile on hours after filtering out the effect of deliveries on hours. 0.01 is the effect of an additional mile on hours after filtering out the effect of deliveries on hours. Similarly, 0.92 is the effect of an additional delivery hours after filtering out the effect of miles on hours. And if you start to think about it like this, you'll notice where we would have gone wrong by taking our simple averages that we had and putting them together. So we had, when we looked at just miles separately and deliveries separately, with miles we had an estimate of 7.2 hours to go 325 miles. And with deliveries we had an estimate of 6 hours to make two deliveries. And so our knee-jerk reaction was, well, just average those two numbers together and you get a nice estimate for how many hours it's going to take you. Here's the problem. Deliveries and miles are going to be related. On average, on average, the further he travels, the more opportunities he has to deliver stuff, so I would expect him to be doing more deliveries. And for shorter trips, I would expect fewer deliveries to be happening because he's not going that far. So because these two things are related, if I calculate my estimate of 7.2 hours based on miles and my estimate is 6 hours based on deliveries and then somehow combine them, I end up double counting. I end up double counting the effect of miles and deliveries because miles and deliveries are themselves interrelated. And this is the beauty of the regression, of the multiple regression. When you see these effects, the .01 marginal effect of miles on hours and the .92 marginal effect of deliveries on hours, these are the effects of miles on hours after filtering out the effective delivery on hours. So we use this term marginal effect to describe this phenomenon. One other thing that we see here, now this is going to your earlier question, what's the A mean? The A here does have an interesting interpretation. So A, 1.13 is our estimate for hours when miles are zero and deliveries are zero. So imagine a truck that goes nowhere and delivers nothing. According to my model, it's going to take 1.13 hours to do that. And you might wonder why it should take any time at all. What is this thing measuring? What it's measuring might be the fixed cost of my driver going to the dispatch office, getting the keys, getting the map of where it is he's going, whatever it is, going to the truck, checking his load, his pressure in the air tires and the oil and the fuel and all of that stuff, backing the thing out of wherever it is and turning on to the road. All of that involved traveling nowhere and delivering nothing, but it contributed to the hours involved, the time. So we think of it as it's a fixed cost. No matter what you do, no matter how many hours you, no matter how many miles you drive, no matter how many deliveries you make, you're going to have this overhead of 1.13 hours. So that's an interesting interpretation for A in this example. So now we'll come to my point. My point was I've got a truck that's going to travel 325 miles and make two deliveries. I can plug it into my estimated regression model to 325 for miles, a two for deliveries, and the thing comes back and tells me 6.2 hours. Does this mean that my truck will take exactly 6.2 hours? No, it probably won't take 6.2 hours. What it says is, on average, a truck that travels 325 miles and makes two deliveries, I can expect to take 6.2 hours. And when it doesn't, it might be more, it might be less, that's random noise. Random things happen that have nothing to do with miles, nothing to do with deliveries to influence the actual hours. So we can turn now, we were talking about magnitude effects, we can talk to turn now to the p-value. So I have this hypothesis after accounting for deliveries, my walk-in hypothesis is after accounting for deliveries, miles have no effect on hours. So my walking-in hypothesis is there's no effect here. So I look at the p-value that goes with my miles parameter and I see a very low p-value. Very low p-value means the data contradicts me. The data says no, you are wrong. There does appear to be a relationship between miles and hours, even after filtering out the effect of deliveries. Similarly, I can say, look, my walking-in hypothesis is after I account for miles, deliveries have no effect on hours. And again, I can look at the p-value, I see a very low p-value, meaning that no, the data contradicts me. There does appear to be a relationship between deliveries and hours. And then finally, for this data set, I'm getting a r squared of 0.9, which says what? Of all the things that influence the travel time. Of all the things that influence travel time, miles and deliveries account for about 90%. The other 10% is due to the noise, the spilling of the coffee, the argument with the wife, they're getting pulled over by the police. The point of regression is to filter out the noise and to find the underlying real effects. And the reason this becomes very important in social sciences, particularly in economics, is because it's so difficult for us to conduct experiments. When you can conduct an experiment, you control for things. So I want to know if I feed a plant coffee versus water, will the plant grow better? So what I do is I control for everything I can control for. I have two plants, I put them in the same temperature, the same humidity, the same light level, all of this, I feed them the same quantity of liquid. The only thing I change is what the liquid is. This one gets coffee, this one gets water. And I observe, I measure how much they grow over time. In a controlled experiment, the point is to control everything except for the one thing you're testing for. That thing we're going to vary. And so when I see a difference in the plants, I conclude it must be due to the coffee versus the water because everything else was the same. In economics, you rarely can do that. I can't control for things, I have to just take the data that's shown to me. So when I take the data that's shown to me, if I put it into a multiple regression model, I get the same sort of thing. So I say, for example, I wonder if, I wonder if increasing the income tax rate would cause people to work less. And so I look around, I have data on how many hours people work, and I have data on their marginal income tax rates. And I can run a simple regression and I can show some results and someone's going to put their hand up and say, but wait a minute, there's lots of things that affect people's willingness to work other than their income tax rate. How do I know that this difference I'm seeing is due to the income tax rate, not something else? If the person were a plant, I'd put one of them in this box and one of them in this box and everything would be the same except for the tax rates. And I watch how much they work. I can't do that. So what I do is I run a multiple regression model. And on this side, I have the thing I'm trying to explain. How many hours do you work? Over here, I have the thing that I'm asking, does this affect that? And that's the income tax rate. And then I have a whole bunch of other stuff. And all these other things are the things I'd like to control for, but can't. So things like the household income, the household he lives in, his education level, his age, how much money he has in his savings account, all these other things that might affect also his willingness to work. And when I run the regression model, what I get over here is the marginal effect of the tax rate on his willingness to work. That is, it's the effect of the tax rate on his willingness to work after you filter out the impacts of all these other things. So multiple regression is an attempt to get what I would get if I had run a controlled experiment, but I can't run a controlled experiment. Do you take any issue with that sometimes? Like I know that one example we always learned in school was that's how they got the value of a park. But what are the kind of things that are unseen if that park wasn't there? And is that an appropriate way to value a park? Right. So first off, in many cases when it comes to economic data, there are problems with running regression analysis, but it beats the alternative. And the alternative is throwing up your hands and walking away and doing nothing, right? What's important is that we'd be aware of what the problems are. So one problem, for example, is I'm assuming that when I make this list of things that affect your willingness to work, that I've identified all of the important ones, I may have left something out. And if I've left something out, then the results I get are not meaningful anymore. The technical term is they're biased, right? So I'm going to get numbers over here that might look and smell and taste good, but actually they're meaningless, right? They're wrong. Another problem is I've assumed that the relationship is linear, right? This whole thing that when we do regression, it's all linear relationships. A one unit change in this causes some fixed change in this thing over here. It's possible the relationship isn't linear. Maybe it's the case that at low levels of tax rate, raising a tax rate a bit has a big impact on your willingness to work, but at high tax rates, maybe raising your tax rate doesn't have much of an effect. It's a nonlinear relationship. If it's a nonlinear relationship, and I'm I put together a linear regression, then I'm again going to get results that aren't meaningful. But I have to be aware that that's a possibility and there are all kinds of tests in the background that I can run to verify if indeed I've set this thing up correctly, right? So it's not it's not as simple as simply throwing the things into the pot and seeing what comes out. In fact, I tell my my students who have reached this level that they are now officially dangerous. They know enough to be able to put data into the machine and to run the thing and to get results and to interpret the results. But they don't know enough to be aware of where they might have gone wrong such that their results good as they look are actually meaningless. So how much can we trust stats that we encounter kind of in the media or in a newspaper? And what are some red flags to look for to kind of see bad stats? Yeah, that's a good question.  I think the problem with statistics, now, there are stats out there that, you know, are just wrong. Usually you find them in memes. But if you're if you're looking actual stats stats from reputable, you know, places, government statistics, UN statistics, Gallup, these kinds of things. The problem isn't the statistics. Statistics don't lie. But the humans who are presenting them can. For example, there was a survey of something 100, 150 economists not too long ago asking about the minimum wage. And in a large number of the economists reported that they didn't think that the minimum wage caused unemployment, or at least this is the way it was presented. So what you saw for people who were pro minimum wage who presented this research, they said, look at all these economists, you know, one third of them or whatever the number was, it was a large number conclude that increasing the minimum wage does not does not cause unemployment. And you look at that and you say, well, wow, the economists think minimum wage doesn't cause unemployment. The problem wasn't the statistic. The problem was the person who was repeating it. If you dig into the question that the economists were asked, they were not asked, does increase in minimum wage cause unemployment? They were asked, does increase in minimum wage cause significant unemployment? And that's what you got, you know, one third of them saying no, they weren't saying no to unemployment causing or to minimum wage causing unemployment, they were saying no to unemployment, minimum wage causing significant unemployment. You know, did some of them maybe think that they had no effect at all possibly? But the question wasn't asking what the person who was repeating the statistic said that the question was asking. And that one little word, significant, maybe didn't, I'm not saying that the person who was repeating the statistic was deliberately lying. The person may not have understood the significance of that one little word, but that one little word makes a big difference to how the people who read the question answer and can make a big difference to what the statistic actually means. So in summary, I would say the thing to be careful of isn't so much the numbers as it is the person who is telling you what the numbers mean. So what you've described is a very empirical approach to economics and social science. How does this contrast with the more a priori approach of deducing from some basic assumptions and principles about purposeful human action that's employed by Austrian economists? Yeah, this it's an interesting question. Actually, I've written what I thought was a pretty good paper and lots of people write me even still about it for Kato on exactly that topic. And the question is how do I as an economist who loves the Austrian school, but also loves statistical analysis, rectify those two viewpoints. And I don't see them in opposition. Remember, as we talked about statistics and p values and regression, at each step, in each example, what I said is you walk into the room with an assumption as to how the world works and you ask the data, do you data, confirm or deny this thing that I'm assuming.  And the Austrian approach gives us lots of interesting things here, principally because they start from from first principles, right? This is this is how we believe humans behave. And if humans behave this way, then the following things result from that. That's the hypothesis that we walk in the door with. One of the one of the things we haven't discussed and is true and it's a problem is data mining. And this is becoming more of a problem as we get more and more data in computing power that you know, on the phone in my pocket, I can do stuff that NASA couldn't do with its roomfuls of computers 30 40 years ago. One of the things that means is it becomes very easy to search lots and lots of data very quickly. And if you have the ability to search lots and lots of data very quickly, you will find stuff that looks real. It looks like, you know, sales of keyboards are influenced by colors of pens that people have. And you look at the data and lo and behold, every time when we sell more red pens, keyboard sales go down. We sell more blue pens, keyboard sales go up. We found this wonderful thing. What you found is a spurious relationship by random chance that happens to be the case. Now the real problem with data mining is you multiply by orders of magnitude, the likelihood of you finding spurious relationships because you're looking so you're looking at all kinds of things, right? You're guaranteed if you look hard enough, you'll find these spurious relationships. What's needed to help guard against finding spurious relationships is connecting the analysis you're performing to some some defensible hypothesis. That is, there is no defensible hypothesis that says colors of pens sales influence keyboard sales. So I shouldn't even be looking at that relationship. What the Austrians give us is the reminder that we must be rooted in first principles. And that guides the sort of things that we analyze. And to that extent, I think the two data analysis in Austrian economics actually are complementary. Humans are storytellers where we like stories from the time, you know, we're little and people tell us things. And when we're older, it's anecdotes. Anecdotes catch our imaginations. They stick in our memories. And I think humans have evolved to be anecdotal creatures because, you know, prior to the invention of writing and widespread literacy, which is a very recent thing, that's the way we pass down wisdom from generation to generation. You know, what plant not to eat, what animal to stay away from because it's going to eat you. These sorts of things, you tell stories about Uncle Joe, who got too close to that big cat and it just bit his leg off, right? No, God, I'm not going to do that, right? And we embellish it with all kinds of other things to make it more scary so the kids don't go anywhere near the thing, right? And we're anecdotal creatures. And anecdotes give us on top of that and entertaining a colorful way to look at, to grapple with the world around us. The problem is, good decisions are more often made by statistics or analysis of statistics than by consulting anecdotes. And the problem with statistics is they're not colorful, they're not interesting, right? We have to force kids to sit through stats classes because nobody likes this stuff. So I think one of the takeaway messages here is, while there's no way to make statistics more palatable, it is at least necessary to communicate to people who maybe aren't interested in knowing about statistics. There are great drawbacks to using anecdotes as your map for the world, as you go about making decisions. And at least help people to understand things like, you know, when you make a decision to ban a drug or to, or to ban a particular type of weapon or to, you know, subsidize this thing or tax that thing, that it's important that we withhold our colorful, our joyful, our desire to help others to do the right thing to behave well, to hold that back a little bit and remember that the data are the things that we should consult in making decisions. Your heart is a wonderful thing to consult in asking the question, what is it we should be making decisions about? But the decision itself needs to be driven by data.


What's up y'all to girl Kenzie here from late in sports cards, and I'm ripping we've got 22 23 Panini a recon basketball Hobby six pox half case break number 15 pick your team got Alvin S. Warriors Andy L Thunder Brian D. Mavs Chahousey Hawks Daniel T wizards is equal and with the Nets Clippers sons and Cavs Glen W. Blazers Jared S. Nix Jeff J. Rockets Karen C. Heap Kenlong L. Kings Klaus W. Pelicans Leo W Spurs Luke M. Raptors Marcy S. Bucks Paul F. Magic Robert a Celtics Roy M. Lakers Stanley T Pistons Tony W. T. Wolves Tony K. Nuggets Tyler B. Grizzlies von B. Pacers Victor F. Hornets William D With these sixers bulls in young s with the jazz All right, best of luck everyone. Thank you all so much again for getting this filled up We've got 11 to go on the next one 11 to go Let's see what we can hit here future legends of Jaden Ivy Liravia red to 199 Walker Kessler Jamal Murray Jake Griffin rookie Karusha Ah, just the autos. Yeah, anything numbered like 10 or less. Yeah. Cam Johnson, Mark Williams rookie Yeah, yeah, this year. They definitely there's our first pal up on the rookie Jamarant to 299 Luca Brock the rammer such a cool on Aaron Gordon To 99 Tyler hero for the heat our first auto up is going to be destined for greatness to 99 Is that go bear? Uh, no, Chris Duarte. I look like go bear for a second. I don't know why Yeah, Justin for greatness red to 99. I love the photos. They always use her portas Some crazy face our hollow dot short print is going to be Brandon Ingram for the pelicans Short print there. What's up D? Welcome in Scotty Barnes to 299 Raptors The last couple teams taken there Thanks for subbing D. Appreciate it. Welcome in rock the rim Russell Westbrook We've got 2199 Reggie Jackson and our next auto is going to be blue to 49 of Nicola Jovic for the heat Heat rookie there. Um, and not Barnes I don't know it's going to be a long one a vector. This is such a dope looking card Devon Booker reminds me of luminance. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, it's definitely like a luminance. Yeah vibe there Give me Aaron Gordon. Oh nice. That's cool We got a vector of ant man. That's a cool one. All right last pack box for more We've got world travelers of uh poor zingas. That looks like one of the um Take it to dominate whatever it is. Yeah license to dominate max christie to 299 rookie vice and daniels Denny Avdia All right, so the first box there quite a bit of numbered cards. We got our short print in the very first box And uh two nice autos a sophomore Uh kd on the vector we got the 299 Collin sexon Now for for a good old owl Uh tiger some maxi future legends ant man a little mellow First little mellow we've seen He's kind of falling off a bit, huh? Yeah, he just needs to stay else and then shoot him. All systems go Steph Curry It's a cool looking card. It's a 199 de andre eight de andre eight and we've got a uh isaiah mobili the true potential signatures Isaiah mobili it's calves, right? Yeah calves calves on that one Uh verana murky from the vodka It'd be cool if he has one of those sophomore cards josh getting gold to 10 future legends. There you go. Okay, see I like the gold on this uh Insert that's a really sharp looking card seven of 10 You go thunder. Okay. Look houston rookie off to a good start here. Again y'all last time we checked We had 11 to go on the next break. Uh loravia rookie. We've got a jayden ivy to 299.  Oh geez if we pull a giddy auto i'll do that rock the ram joellen bead Jalen sucks otherwise not happening Not sure giddy might have a uh Sophomore uh vector of jaw we've got a you'll catch the 299 there you go nuggets one of the last teams taken there Jalen williams rookie trade jones We're these 55 50 point yeah like we thought that's what I thought future legends uh jalen doran Kobe white rookie of chet holmgren nice one there bobby portis to 199 First uh auto of this box to 75 a tony kook coach for the bowls Bowls running all over opponents with kukit uh kook coach pacing the way cool in their bowls Yeah, I like the little facts and stuff that they have on those tiles too. I always enjoy reading those Oh, you've got world traveler joellen bean such a cool card Fonte morris. Oh, that was the second. Oh, I forgot about the uh redemption Second one there down to 10 to go on the next one y'all awesome. Thank you so much 10 to go Pretty much all remaining teams for the day are on sale We've got five more breaks of the half case recon our full case 12 box tiered is already full Um, then we got some optic world travelers really go bare Again madis currently live over on the baseball channel. I think last time we checked there was like seven total spots left for the day there vector of luka To 299 jeremy grant j griffin rookie We know if you have any questions need help uh finding a team or whatnot future legends scottie barns. We've got austin reeves saw a video the other day of the austin rivers talking about austin reeves Who are they trying to compare him to? uh rookie of matherin I can't remember He's basically like I respect this game. He's a good kid, but um Is it jerry? No, it wasn't brunson. Cool. Jordan poor thoughts who they were comparing him to Uh rock the rim of jalen brown So 199 herbert jones nice and daniels rookie He's not even on the same realm rock the rim rookie jaden ivy to 199 a j griffin Got a chat on the uh vector rookie That's so cool. I might have to pick up the pal one of those chat um base right behind it Oh, we have we got something in here. There's a shade on future legends The 299 christian wood and we've got a brandon boston jr for the clippers to 48 So 48 on the sophomore neon auto there To 48s will bb action mark williams Or a sophomore acetate. I said neon because I was thinking of uh, it does the elements for football Uh, rookie wave dale and terry to 199 doug mcdermott. We've got another uh redemption here jalen williams the potential There you go. Okay. See Nice rookie auto there The good jalen williams We're not ricky But uh pat cure box three Uh donovan mitchell rock the ram hero four And y'all let's get this next break filled up We're 16. We've got celtics calves nuggets rockets clippers blazers jazz two four six seven to go there Awesome down to seven uh future legends of jalen sucks keels rookie Seven to go. There is the link for it. Dylan just dropped for you rookie of christian brown. There we go Kennedy chandler to 299 or rookie for the gris. Oh, look at this.  O'Neill to 99 On the glorified signatures It's a cool set. I like that. Yeah sharp sharp looking card there For sure. I got some like christmas colors going on there green and red The swirls uh world travelers uh siacum duarte Zubac Rock the rim bam bam jabari walker to 199 Patrick Baldwin junior rookie Yeah, all basketball going today vector curry. That's a cool one boku Future legends dang uh poodle to 299 williams junior rookie Rookie of jalen williams for the thunder thought of a mitchell The celtics he played a night, right? Yeah rock the ram lori markin in That's 199 bobby portis. Here he is. There you go to 49 Shade on sharp. I knew it on the true potential red Nice That is sick congrats on that trailblazers the last team taken Who snagged them up portland trailblazers There you go glenn w congrats on that one glenn 41 of 49 get that one in a mag for you.  Trevor keels rookie face Future legends a bhaji. We've got to 199 a manual quickly mitchell Rookie uh williams with dermit. Trevor keels rookie Hope everyone's having a good thursday. Thanks again for uh, tune in into the stream matherin future legends poodle yo bitch rookie rookie wage or davis Vanderbilt all systems go yannis onto the kumpo to 199 jalen brown next auto up We've got grizzlies a luke canard that is 39 of 99 The grizzlies on the glorified signatures the abate Rock the rim gene ivy rookie keegan marita 299. There you go kings Tatum base Chet holmgren on the vector Uh dream on green and 99 next auto up grizzlies again. Sure potential rookie auto to 99 david roddy Memphis taking home both autos out of this box Westbrook Lebron First bra now he's seen You think he retires world traveler getting so so on rookie base. Yeah, I don't either Yeah Rock the rim kenya martin jr. Cory kisbert last box box box vector drain up nothing to my dream on donovan mitchell to 299 andrew wiggins gene ivy rookie base Monk do our day. Okay. Let's see where we are here Got three to go calves nuggets in blazers. Awesome Cavs 19 nuggets 49 blazer 74 Three to go on the next break. Y'all are awesome. There is the link for you So this box will do a quick recap And keep moving jalen brown to 99 denis shooter for the lakers la ravea rookie We got a luke on the vector James harden future legend scotty barns to 49 christian wood Got another redemption here is going to be called to excellent signatures tim hardaway jr Mavs i'm assuming right Let's double check very hard way tim hardaway Claimed a fame, but it's just called to excellence Uh, yes mads on this one. It's like the double check Mavs there of bhaji A couple different hardaways on the checklist Uh, dylan terry ulnick Got world travelers luka donchich The 299 jordan clarkson bull bull Bull bull and the magic union like it rock the rim donovan mitchell Jane ivy on the rookie vector Got to 199 jamal murray This money dang rookie We've got another nice jaden hardy on the uh hollow dot short print There you go mavs Congrats on that one dallas very nice hit So there you go Nice and daniels we've got a austin reese to uh, 299 lakers a kelvin murphy murphy to 75 auto Rockets on the uh glorified signatures there Duran ruckabase Beale kb last pack here then we'll do a recap Duran Meek out bridges wiggins like daniels denwitte and jay shawms. Hey quick recap here Thank you. All right. We had our uh hollow short prints. We had two and jaden hardy for the mavs Uh future legends josh giddy gold to 10. Okay. See mavs redemption tim hardaway jr Cavs true potential redemption of isaia mobley. Okay. See redemption jaylon williams on the true potential signatures Uh rockets kelvin murphy Grizzlies look canard nets roiso neal. We had uh grizzlies david roddy Pacers on the chris duarte Tony cuckoach for the bowls heats, uh, yovitch Brandon boston jr on the Auto there for the clippers and then the shade on sharp to 49 red blazers color match Closer mojo there. Alrighty all that will do it for number 15. We got 16 coming up once it fills. Thanks so much


A lot of people would say that you're simply taking a page out of the Donald Trump book. A lot of people would say that. Well, I'm sure a great many Canadians, but... Like who? I don't know who, but... Well, you're the one who asked the question, so now you must know somebody. Okay. Hello all you beautiful 153,000 subscribers and newbies who might be watching for the first time. If so, this is gonna be a good one. Things are looking grim up north where you have Justin Trudeau attacking peaceful Canadian truckers as Nazis while also literally giving a standing ovation to actual Waffen SS Nazi. Obviously it's extremely upsetting that this happened. So now in comes this guy Pierre Poliev, who's been the Conservative Party leader in Canada, is known for standing up to leftists and whose party is polling higher than little Castro's and with four in ten Canadians saying he should be the next Prime Minister.  In terms of your strategy currently, you're obviously taking the populist pathway. What does that mean? Well, appealing to people's more emotional levels, I would guess. Certainly you tap very strong ideological language quite frequently. Like what?  I've never really talked about left or right. But anyways, a lot of people... I don't really believe in that. Okay. I love how he's eating the apple. A lot of people would say that you're simply taking a page out of the Donald Trump book. A lot of people would say that. Well, I'm sure of a great many Canadians, but... They're cool. I don't know who, but... Well, you're the one who asked the question, so you must know somebody. Okay. I'm sure there's some out there, but anyways, the point of this question is... Okay, so this far-left hack reporter is going to use this tactic where he injects his own views by attaching them to some nebulous group that's supposedly saying it, but isn't. U.S. media does this all the time, too. But I also love how he accuses Poiliev of using, quote, emotional ideological rhetoric because he calls out the left wing. Again, don't both Canadian and U.S. media, along with left-wing politicians, constantly, endlessly fear-monger about the right wing, the far-right, and the coveted hard-right. So I'm in the ultra-conservative wing of the Republican caucus. House Freedom Caucus, which is the sort of far-right ultra-conservative wing. In the Freedom Caucus, that ultra-conservative faction. A small group of ultra-conservative Republicans deny McCarthy the Speaker's gavel. Hard-right factions of the GOP. Hard-right wing conservative. The ultra-conservative, never Kevin Caucus. He's leading what could be the most right-wing and religiously conservative government in the country's history. A coalition described as the most extreme right-wing in the country's history. What is being called the most right-wing government, the most far-right in the country's history. Far-right conspiracy theorists. Some of those far-right members. Far-right former president Jair Bolsonaro. The targeted group's ideology is similar to that of far-right groups here in the U.S. Far-right threat inside the United States. What this man had was a very far-right viewpoint. You'll never hear these people do the same thing with left-wing, which is why this guy is treating it like some sort of partisan slur. He's just making up strawmen as he goes in a clumsy attempt to somehow attach Donald Trump to this guy. Without ever explaining what exactly he's doing like Donald Trump, other than hilariously taking down state media flunkies. Not even Donald Trump can do this while eating an apple. Maybe eating some McDonald's, which now that I'm thinking about it would be freaking awesome. Alright folks, that's all I have for that one. I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you all in the next one.


Get this and get it straight Crime is a suckers road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter the prison of the grave This started with a wreck and went from there to double murder over 75,000 bucks worth of glitter that nobody got in the end because I found out just in time What was fishy about the tale of the mermaid? From the pen of Raymond Chandler outstanding author of crime fiction comes his most famous character in the adventures of Phillip Marlowe Now with Gerald Moore starred as Phillip Marlowe. We bring you tonight's exciting story the tale of the mermaid I'm 30 I was still in my office tucking in the loose ends on a report Well, I listened with half an ear to the fabric of city sounds rising from the street below fabric ripped suddenly by tires clawing concrete Shattering crash that followed brought me to my feet. It was a traffic accident and a bad one I ran to the window, but it had happened around the corner out of sight from my office So I watched others run for it and remember grimly that every 30 seconds somewhere in the country a thing like that happened And one out of every 16 minutes was fatal I wanted to have been chewed up in a chromium meat grinder this time as I listened to first the police Then the emergency ambulance and finally the scavenger truck cleaned the wreck off the street After that I went back to my report again and tried to forget about it But an hour later that same accident came back into my office Mr. Marlowe. Yeah, this is Corey Riggs. Yes, Miss Riggs I'm a nurse at the Warwick emergency hospital about an hour ago a man named Stanley odd was brought in and he's been calling for you For me he was badly injured in an automobile accident on Kowengah on his way to your office. Wait a minute Who did you say this one? I'm the nurse assigned to mr. Odd of the hospital I just got off duty and I had to wait until I was relieved before I could call you I see well look mr. Riggs. I'd like to help in any way I can but it's not Mr. Odd gave me $250 and told me to call you. Yeah, I know but he said that I should give you 200 and keep the 50 for myself. Oh fine. I'll get clients by proxy. I beg your pardon. Nothing. I'll be right over mr. Riggs I didn't know anyone named Stanley odd and I felt a little like an ambulance chaser But I was only 15 minutes and getting to the emergency hospital as I walked up the ambulance ramp a smart-looking brunette came toward me I'm Corey Riggs the nurse who called. Oh, hello. Can I see him now? It wouldn't do any good. You see He went into a coma a few minutes after I called. Oh, too late. Is that it? Let's move away from the door. Shall we sure You see mr. Molo before he went into the coma. Odd wasn't rational. He was raving about what sort of things About you and a girl. Oh as near as I could make out She's supposed to meet someone tonight at 2 o'clock and collect $75,000 It's quite an assignment. Who's the girl? I don't know All I said was something about a plaid coat as identification plaid coat Any idea what he wanted me to do chaperone maybe no he kept pleading stopper stopper. She can't do it So I'm sure that he wanted you to prevent this girl from keeping that appointment Some reason that seems absolutely imperative to him. Where was his 2 o'clock meeting supposed to take place? I have no idea. Oh fine So it boils down to this girl. We don't know and a plaid coat is meeting someone.  He just kept saying you've got to help me Marla with life and death You know we can stir up an awful hornet's nest poking our noses into 75,000 bucks worth of business We know nothing about I Doubt that we can do any good anyway because we don't have enough to go on He said anything else to even point the right Marlowe. Oh wait a minute. He mumbled something once about a Constantine constant in yes, it's up here. What is it a boat? I don't know, but at least it's a lead isn't it? Anything else? No Okay, where can I reach you? I'll be at my quarters Crestview 5 7 8 1 5 7 8 1 and keep track of Stanley arts condition Will you he comes out of it talk to him only got three short hours. I'll call you Cory I Felt a little weird as I left the hospital because I was traveling on strictly secondhand information as to what had gone on in a delirious mind But in spite of that there was still enough coherence in what Cory Riggs told me to make a case My first stop was a phone booth from a call to the police Where I found out from the accident report that Stanley out was 30 unmarried small-time lawyer In an LA resident with a clean police record. My next call was the harbour master's office of San Pedro Before my time not the one not the one So I tried the coast guard fishing boat called Constantine on this coast mister That was followed by a check of yacht harbour at Long Beach negative and a call of the pleasure boat anchorage at Santa Monica After that a long futile reconnaissance of the waterfront from one end to the other It left me one solid hour later out at the end of a tottering almost abandoned concessions pier in Venice Swearing and blind frustration at the black seething ocean below. I was licked I Ain't thinking of jumping in are you panel? You look like you lost your best friend. I did Buster me. I was sunk with a Constantine in 1870 Constantine You know him to him. Yeah, you mean Constantine's a guy. Yeah, there's a shank there Wait till the beacon light comes around again. See see that well, I'll be Prince Constantine Chevnov Occultist palmist and medium personal consultant by appointment only. Yeah, but that's a fake. No for all them guys He owes everybody around me even at a ziggie me for one buck and that's something Well, he's a genuine Russian princess Hey Hey, what were you doing? Have a look Prince Constantine Chevnov could be my boy What you know That's too bad. Does he live here? Yeah in the back. He runs his pitch in the front. We're all in the green curtains I suppose he always leaves his door unlocked Yeah, I bet I'll be a light switch here someplace. Oh, yeah Now let's see what As a little war frat dotted through the door and scampered away into the darkness I went over the body face up on the cheap gaudy carpet of the seance room It was about 35 in a substantial gray business suit stained red in front where the bullets had gone in His wallet was missing There was no other identification on him His gray snap brim hat was spilled a few feet away So I picked it up to look for initials and found and set a small file card stuck into the sweatband Typed at the top was the heading the mermaid owner Otis Van Oorn only relative Evelyn Van Oorn niece Mermaid stolen November 12th 1948 insurance paid in full in ink Van Oorn died August 1949 and under that in pencil Constantine Chevnov Venice Pier and Louis Paradise 913 Seacrest Road Pacific Palisades It took 20 minutes to find 913 Seacrest And when I stopped and got close enough of what I saw through an open window made Constantine trap I just left Look as reliable as a post office by comparison It was a miniature Egyptian temple exotic and dainty sickening lushness of red velvet and yellow silk And in the center of the room was a bloated little man balancing a long cigarette holder in one hand While he simpered into a honey-colored French phone the other Move up quietly until I could hear him Sentimental agreement That is right Evelyn your uncle Otis and I were the best of friends for years Well, thank you child Where are you now? Oh this avatar? Good. Good. I advise you to stay there until a few minutes before two and You will not forget to wear a plaid coat just to be sure I won't make a mistake. What is it? What? Careful now They find so interesting inside conversation about the mermaid probably Glad you dropped that one, but because I'd bump you for a nickel say nothing to 75 G's I don't talk things over with punks. I reserve it for the head man. Go do something about it.  It stepped up. They came back fast when the gopher called him He stared at me from across the room and his nostrils flared for an instant and he simped again inside I'll told me the gopher dug at my spine with his gun Well now What is this food day snubber mr. Ferdice caught him outside picking in the window. Oh It is a bad night for snoopers. Who are you names Marlowe and the business snooping You know it's about the man made with Ferdice. He does How much do you know? Speak up. He's got a fishtail instead of legs. You dare to joke Just stand here and take it big man. You asked for it make a move and I'll drop you I know what you are Marlowe, but not how much you have found out now. Tell me Because the next time I slap you it will carry more weight and my bare hand. I promise You have company paradise. No, you keep this baboon under control. I will answer the door How far do you think you can go with my reputation? Do you want to get me hanged if what is the matter Constantine you are upset upset?  He found that body on his front room floor right Constantine exactly Precisely and what is more I did not put it there of all the places in the world. Why did you pick this one? Ferdice with this this stranger here if you would close your mouth and open your eyes more often Prince Constantine you would not be the nervous wreck you are This is mr. Marlowe another snooper another one paradise Paradise listen to me. It's better if we quit. It's better if we don't try tonight. It's out of hand I don't like it now. We should get away and come back next year and do it Ah, you're jellyfish. There's nothing to worry about now Insurance investigators often work in pairs. Is that not so Marlowe your pitch round man You don't need any help from me. You are so right Rudy and I caught the first at your place Now we have the second one here. That is all there are the danger is over It's clear ceiling for you. Yeah, but what about that catabre? You had the audacity to leave lying in my sails Oh, what about give me Constantine that was a necessity. I am sorry Hey Rudy just going all the time. Yeah Ogunoff you can buy with the mermaid. I don't care just a bracelet But at the same time it is seventy five thousand dollars worth of diamonds in platinum. Oh, okay paradise. I trust you now What should I do with a big boy here?  Yeah, you've got no initiative, but you do have imagination So use it Goodbye Marlowe In just a moment the second act of Philip Marlowe But first it's a big break in entertainment for you and a big break in a career for some talented youngsters when Horace heights Original youth opportunity program opens the door to fame and fortune every Sunday evening on CBS Popular Horace height is host to young folks who want to break into show business and every Sunday evening One lucky winner does break in to his delight and your listening pleasure Yes for music comedy thrills and all-around fun listen to Horace height Sunday evenings another great CBS show Heard over most of these same stations To Now with our star Gerald Moore we return to the second act of Philip Marlowe and tonight's story the tale of the mermaid When Louis Paradise hesitated at the door snarl the suggestion that this henchmen uses imagination and disposing of me and Left in a lockstep with the white Russian screwball. I got the point But even if I'd missed it entirely one look into brother Rudy's eyes would have done the trick There were no pupils just slits of lethal viciousness Windows to his warped little mind where I could practically see the montage going on That ran from ancient thumb screws by candle light up to a generous beating by street lamp with brass nuts I felt the cold not grow in the pit of my stomach As Rudy with a cannon in his hand pointed at my head started toward me And from someplace outside. I got a break to romantic cats Rudy spun toward the sound one chance to a customer Rudy and you miss Not tonight gentle soul give it me out. I want you to hurt yourself until we've had a chance to talk. That's it now lights out There was some reason why I like cats their voices Okay, Rudy you've had enough rest now. Let's get back to business Come on get up. We're gonna talk The reason for any more rough stuff That's better Wetted paradise in his highness head for the ganas though. Where is it? I don't know come on You said there was no reason for rough that remember Yeah, yeah, I remember Ganas though that's something I never heard of an unhappy coincidence Rudy. It's one thing. I'm interested in there wait Must be something else you want to know My mouth I could tell you that the hey Hey, what are you gonna do mean you can't tell Rudy? That's funny. All it takes is a little imagination Rudy out of the way I started through the place looking for all important answer to what was the ganas though The 20 minutes of turning drawers and closets inside out revealed nothing more exciting than Louis Paradise's address book First names only and a picture of a girl named toodles who belong to the roaring 20s And by this time should have caught a death of cold The sister no doubt But no lead on the ganas though So on the slim chance of my clients Stanley out might already be back in this world and able to help I Got outside into my car and drove to the first drugstore We're after checking the phone books under everything from bars to bathhouses for a ganas though and getting no place I called Corey Riggs at the nurse's home No Marlo Stanley out still unconscious. I just talked to the night nurse on his floor They expect him to come out of it soon Why what happened? Well, it's too much to explain now Corey, but that girl the one in the plaid coat I found out that her name is Evelyn Van Owen and she's staying at the surf hotel Now see if that much checks without when he comes to will you all right? Oh also There's a diamond studded item called the mermaid which accounts for that 75,000 he mentioned a Constantine in the pier now equal a phony Russian Prince Who runs a spook palace out on the old Venice pier now you got all that good now look honey listen real hard Before a lot passed out did he by any chance say the word ganas though? Yeah, no, what does it mean? I don't know. I think it's the name of a place Oh, have you checked the phone book? Yeah. Yeah, it's no dice Corey. Also. I check one. Mr. Louis paradise Who you might mention Marlo Marlo wait a minute. What's the matter? Well, yeah, there's a girl here one of the nurses who's trying to tell me something It's the ganas dough Marlo. Shh. Wait a minute. She knows something about it here. It's Rosemary you talked You want to know what now don't mean. Yeah, well, it's Russian like partial of my No, no Well, what does it mean in English Rosemary fast? Please is important. Well, that means let's go to my place No, it's the word for nest Sort of like cozy apartment or cottage my place nest you sure that one positive I was an army nurse in the war and I spent two years in Germany After the shooting part was over Two years a half a block away from the Russian zone. That's close enough. Thanks a million Rosemary. I don't mention it He's called That do it Marlo. Yeah, I think so in any rate unless I'm way off bases where both the mermaid and all parties concerned are gonna rendezvous with 2 a.m That's less than a half hour from now the princess place on the pier want to be early So goodbye Corey. I'll call again when I know more Yeah, and give my everlasting love to girlfriend Rosemary. She always show a peach There was still a few parts missing the way they're always are As I drove fast for the old Venice pier and added as I went along It came out something like a team of paradise and Prince what you might call it ready willing and able to pay 75 grand for a piece of jewelry that one Evelyn Van Owen now Mermaid which according to the data I found on the insurance man body had once been stolen from Evelyn's late uncle But I left it there when My rear view mirror said a long gray sedan that had been tagging me discreetly for the last three blocks Now being indelicate about it and closing fast Driver was old pal Rudy and he became abreast. He had it for me All right, all right, you're okay. You're okay Mac. Don't you worry about a thing? We'll have you out of there in a minute Hey Hey, Cabby what I hit well in the order of their appearance Mac your car into a telephone pole And then you went to your bench board.  Oh Here comes the ambulance Not for me. I'm all right. Hey, come on cabbie help me out of this. What is it? Oh, that's what we're trying to do But don't you worry the ambulance ain't for you but a guy that sideswiped you and then tried to get away I seen one happen and I went after him and we can he turned into a dead end No less trying to shake me who is he a mess, but I guess he'll live all right What's he got against you anyhow Mac? Just my life. Listen your cab's still all right. Sure. There's someplace you got to go There is the old Venice concessions pier my friend in the soon of the better. Come on Maybe my head against the dashboard was exactly what I needed Because right then and there the method of Rudy's handy work made me think of an angle that I'd neglected almost completely My unconscious client had not wanted me to get the mermaid or the 75,000 bucks But to stop Evelyn from keeping her on me boom, which at this point I figured could mean but one thing It was exactly two o'clock when the cab slammer was stopped near the pier I piled out and ran out of the empty fog dampened planking led to Prince Constantine's shack Nothing, but mist moved over the pier. No unusual sound broke the pattern of waterfront noises But I thought momentarily that I was still in time to prevent what Stanley out somehow knew was going to happen But Louis Paradise and his eccentric sidekick intended to get the mermaid from Evelyn But pay off and only one One way ran to the rear of the shack and still some got close to the half open door where I could see in here and found out Just what I'd expected And the storeroom spread out and very still on the oil soap planks that were a makeshift flaw with the lifeless form a girl Well, according to the plaid coachy wall was the late Evelyn Van Orne And kneeling close to a gun in one hand the sparkling mermaid and the other as her execution of Louis Paradise Next to him is number one boy Prince Constantine Chevnoff.   Yes paradise, but the gun so much noise We can't afford to attract attention. The two cops is on hand. I should say not prissy. Don't try it, Louis The mermaid the space between the boards the mermaid It's in the water Chevnoff Shame it's a shame We did so much work so hard.  I I'm not so brave Keep quiet. Don't make a sound. She had no we got company Can you please tell me where Louis Paradise can be? It's Louis Paradise there Who are you? Evelyn Van Orne. What? Van Orne A woman who was supposed to sell the mermaid to paradise. That's right But on my way over here just after I left my hotel somebody struck me knocked me out Took my my coke there and my purse and ran Your purse with a mermaid no doubt. Yes And that miss Van Orne makes this angle shooty here Very dead nurse cori rigs Let's get out of here There's nothing to worry about this man. The one stanley's going to be all right. Oh, I'm so happy Why isn't women always cry when they're so happy? I don't know but it's effective. Well, I'll run along now. Goodbye. Bye. Dr You know, mr.  I know because I had the same treatment It's one of Louis Paradise's henchmen rudy Where's your car honey? I'll walk you out. Oh just outside the front door. Mm-hmm Tell me did I tell you why rudy roughed him up? Yes in a way You see I told stanley about the deal with the mermaid and he thought it all sounded a little phony Can't understand why he's a lawyer, you know not legal type He said meeting anyone at two in the morning was ridiculous So he investigated as much as he could Because he was worried about me We're engaged. No, I never would have guessed and and he found out that mr. Paradise was a fence And stan said that probably he never intended to give me the 75 000 for the mermaid at all That they they intended to kill me. Hmm. Here we are Tell me why did you get in touch with paradise in the first place? I was just following uncle Otis's instructions He gave me the mermaid when he was dying And he told me if I wanted money to sell it only to a mr.  Just lucky for you that nurse cori rigs was clever She put together just enough of Otis's gibberish to know that there was something good to be had And then got me to unravel it for her Got killed taking my place when she tried to collect your 75 000 bucks.  How do you feel? Well, I'm alive And love Yes, well that answers my question Good night, baby And good luck When I left the hospital, I wanted back to the old Venice Pier in Prince Constantine's mausoleum It was five in the morning and the police had finished cleaning the place up But the word had gotten out Crowd had gathered They always do Curious restless sorted crowd quick with everything from grappling hooks to homemade diving helmets All climbing over each other for a chance to fish for the mermaid She would brought death to three people Injured to two others in the course of one night And suppose they found them What then? A lot of glittering pieces of white coal set in a metal frame we call precious Look at the suckers grand That's all Marlowe home and to bed The adventures of Philip Marlowe bringing you Raymond Chandler's most famous character star Gerald Moore and are produced and directed by Norman McDonald Script is by Meldon L.A. Robert Mitchell and Gene Levitt Featured in the cast were Rita Lynn, John Daener, Michael Ann Barrett, Wilms Herbert, Junius Matthews, Herb Bygren and Mark Lawrence The special music is composed and conducted by Richard Oran Be sure and be with us next week when Philip Marlowe says It started with a terrified woman lost in a maze of memories. She couldn't explain And waiting for outside an open window Was death Another show has joined the CBS sunday night parade It's the contented hour starring buddy clark and featuring the finest and popular and semi classical music It comes to you on most of these cbs stations for the first time tomorrow night making its debut on cbs The same night has red skelton and edgerbergen and charles mccarthy. Yes this fall you hear them all on cbs This is paul masterson speaking Now stay tuned for gangbusters which follows immediately over most of these same cbs stations This is cbs the columbia broadcasting system


This is why we have friends. Exactly. So let's see, it's five, six past the hour, so I think we can get started. Do you want to drive or should I drive? Since I can't even find the mute button effectively, I think probably it's best if you drive. All right. Okay, so in that scenario, let's go ahead and get the meeting notes up. Is anyone able to share? Great, thanks. Okay, while we're getting set up, so first is a reminder, please add yourself to the attendees list. Second, please remember that this is a recorded call. Third, if there are any topics anyone would like to bring up or any documents or anything that is not on the agenda, then please bring it up. I was not hearing. I'm sorry, what was that? It was Yvonne, I just said hi because my audio was not. Okay, so the first action item that we had was with, okay, so in terms of the release notes, let's go ahead and get started there. So overall, I personally am pretty happy with how the initial set of releases, how the initial set of release notes were looking. Let's see, that's against the changelog. Yeah. So let me see if I can find the... In Google, maybe this is here. Yeah, that's the one. So there's still a little bit of work that needs to be done before we can call this one. I'm kind of complete. So in terms of tasks, I wanna go over some of the details if possible. So in the getting 010, are those the three areas? We have Helm, Docker images and signed gets tags linked on GitHub. Are those the three things that we want to show off? Do we wanna add anything or remove anything? I mean, I guess that the release notes also are kind of the release also and maybe some form of documentation. I mean, is it going to be part of the git tag? I mean, how do we... I mean, I think that at least the release is that is still does, okay, let's get this too. So they essentially have archive of the Helm, a couple of readme's, maybe some, for example, configurations, things like that. And then everything is downloaded off of Docker. Okay, so let's see, in terms of... Yeah, so that is a possibility. We could do a tar ball with the Helm charts in it and that would definitely be useful. So, yeah, that's... I think that's a good idea to add. So, for images, so the plan is the plan to... Should we keep the plan to publish everything to Docker or do we wanna do a simultaneous release to the new GitHub repos or who we wanna just leave the GitHub repos alone for now and just stick entirely with the Docker, which I think is probably more well-known at this point. Yeah, I tend to like putting things in Docker, but we do have to think a little bit about where we stand for our Docker repos, because right now we're company our CI and the same thing as everything else. And so we may wanna consider essentially reorganizing in such a way that basically we have a separate repo for the CI stuff. Yeah, I think the suggestion last time was we have three. One is the release repo, where we basically put things that are actual released Docker containers properly tagged. The CI repo, where we do all the farming off of images for CI and then sort of what you might call the Prax master repo, which is the repo where we go put the things that we are actually building off of the master branch that have gotten past CI and been merged. Yeah, and something that we could consider in this scenario is, so I don't know if you saw a GitHub announcement from about a week and a half, two weeks ago. So they are now shipping, they are now attaching to every Git repo a Docker repo. So you can actually do a Docker push and pull to a GitHub based repo that tracks it. Yeah, I would love to do that. I have actually put us in for the beta for that, for network service mesh. I see, so it's not properly released status is what I'm hearing. Yeah, no, as soon as I saw it, I went and signed up network service mesh for the beta. And we're also by the way in the queue for the beta for GitHub actions, which would be kind of cool. But the best of my knowledge, we are not actually in either of those betas yet. Actually the GitHub actions is a really great example because that came out a long time ago and they're still not out. So I guess we should not expect to see this for a considerable period of time. It's hard to say the thing is like, I had originally, because I wasn't thinking about it when GitHub actions came up I signed up for my personal repo for my personal organization and that came through. And then I realized, oh wait, I'd actually need this for the network service mesh or again went to sign this up for the beta list then. So some people are getting them. It's just hasn't come through for us yet. Yeah. Okay. So I think that from an action item then, and I know this is a documents meeting but we can hash some of this out here, is perhaps what we do then is we have the main production repo which could be like network service mesh. And then we separate out the CI into something that's less noisy. And that way when we ship, we only ever ship to a release branch we're not polluting the other branch. Another strategy that I've seen as well is for people to create a development branch. So they'll have like colon DEVEL and they would then drive the master branch to that. But I think one of the things that gives me a little pause on that is that I think our approach is a little bit more complex than the standard application where you could build local images, see it work and then discard the images and then move it forward because there's no distributed aspect to it. So I guess the question is in the scenario is that something that we would want to do in before this release and to make sure that the split is there and properly working, it is a bit close to the release which worries me a little bit but at the same time, having something that's clean that we can put out there I think would be of high value. I would postpone it for either. I mean, we have enough things for this one. We can never make it perfect, I don't mean. No, that is true. Okay, well, let's go ahead and postpone that and what we'll do is let's just make sure that when you do the default pull that we're not overriding the default master and master should always point to the latest to the latest release branch. So let's just double check the infrastructure to make sure that that assertion is true and then beyond that, we can punt any splitting or any other things like that up to a future time. And then what we'll do is we'll describe people that they can either grab off of for the Docker images, they can pull off of either Docker master to get the latest release or they can do Docker zero. So here's a question. So we have, when we do a pull, like so as you're pulling go, you can pull like Golang master and I always pulls the latest. You put Golang colon one and that pulls the latest one dot X branch, which right now there's only one major release. But when 2.0 comes out, then that means that people will not automatically upgrade from 1.0 to 2.0. Do we want to adopt something similar in this and do the release where we have like, get Docker, sorry, get network service mesh zero and put a tag for zero one and a tag for zero one zero and I'll point it to the same image for this point and we can upgrade over time, the images appropriately. Yeah, this sounds quite reasonable to me. So yeah, I mean, it sounds quite reasonable to me that's the way we can go about it has the advantages of not proliferating repose a lot. Yeah, and we focus on tags, there's a new release and then we rely on the tags to allow people to select they want. So if someone wants an exact version zero one zero, I don't want to move up to zero one one until like fully validated, everything works, then things are okay. And when we start to hit the full releases with NSM where we have our first 1.0 release with semantic versioning and then this will work beautifully, I think. It'll allow people to work out how much risk do they want to take or are they willing to accept in order to get later features or bug fixes. Okay, and then we're signed to get tags. Do we have a signature yet? We should probably create like a PGP key and then we can actually do a signed release so that people could verify against and publish the public key on perhaps maybe on Keybase. That sounds good. The one question I do want to ask though is how do we go about securing the signing key? Because the one concern I would have is how do we go about securing the signing key for the images? So in terms of signing, perhaps that could be a manual process to start off with until we're comfortable or until we find a alternative that we can automate. Because right now, my main problem is that we unlock the key and that key is sitting on a shared repository or on a shared system and I'm a little uncomfortable with when the image goes away, can we have a guarantee that it's always gonna be cleaned properly or are there gonna be other site channels, some processor attack or something similar where they managed to dump the region of memory that PGP likes to store things in. So I'm a little concerned on that side. Yeah, I have similar sorts of concerns on that side. One thing I think that we can probably do one thing that this sort of brings to light immediately is we should definitely do some key signing like you kind of you next week. Because that way we've sort of at least got each other on the same web of trust. The good news is I, for reasons historical, I'm a trust anchor for Linux Foundation. So I'm a very highly trusted key. And so you're going to sort of get the web of trust going within the NSM community as well. I think that'd be a fantastic idea and what I think we can do is we can sign and we can print out on paper or something similar, a key that we can then seal away and we can work out how do we want to properly secure it so that it's not lost or stolen easily. Well, I mean, I guess part of what I'm saying is at this point, if we're gonna use PGP rather than having an SMT, we just have one of us sign the release. We've got some attestation from a public key. I presume how many of you folks on here actually have public keys currently? I got a public key, but it's not a common thing. People... Yeah, no, it's not a super common thing actually. And it might be sort of worth thinking through how we want to do it because public keys are kind of inconvenient to work with. But I'm all for having some way for people to be able to validate and verify an image. Yeah, and what I was thinking of is if we can publish the key in a couple of ways. So of course, we would publish them to the standard PGP key servers. We can publish it into network service mesh website itself which is gated with Git and secured with HTTPS and publish the fingerprints and so on of the image. The third place that we could also stick something is, again, the key base is gaining a lot of popularity and they make the tooling relatively easy to for people to set up their keys so that they can then verify images and so on. So of course it begs the question is to like, do you trust a third party entity to set up your infrastructure for this type of signing? But if it's for the purpose of verification of the image, I think that that may be an acceptable risk. We just have to see like, do we have to give key base the private key or can we publish our own custom key? And I think if we can do a custom one, it should be okay. Yeah, so a lot of things to look into definitely. Cool. So I'll take a look into some of that stuff and I think we'll work out a strategy for and I think what you described is perfectly reasonable. So we sign each other and any one of us, like we either select somebody as the signer or perhaps we can do something where any one of us can sign and verify the keys. So we can work out a strategy on that, but let's work out what our primitives are first. Cool. Okay, so in terms of demos, so has anyone gone over the recently over each of the demos and made sure that the demos work? So we actually- I am, yeah. So we do have the testing that you put in July for the make version of the demos that's currently running to cover some aspects of them. I did notice that we had a failure in there. We have some intermittent failures that are happening. So I'm trying to pull the other something that does better logging. So we can figure out what's going on there. And then I think it would probably also be good. I think the way we want to direct people or in demos generally is probably via helm rather than via make. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. And so the question I have in this scenario then is the helm infrastructure mature enough now where we could reasonably do that for zero one zero? Yeah, the only thing, I've used it successfully to demo in the past. The only thing that I would actually really prefer to see is being able to break out the clients from the services as separate charts. So you can say, look, you're a home install network service mesh. Great, now you've got network service mesh enabled. Oh, you can monitoring and this helm install NSM monitoring. Great, now we can see monitoring. Oh, you'd like to go VPN available, home install VPN. Only you'd like somebody to consume it. Well, helm install some home chart for the client because that sort of flows naturally in terms of what day one days, zero day one day two looks like. Okay, that makes sense. So in that scenario, I suppose the only thing that we need to do in this is to, so it sounds like automation is there. Is that workflow in CI yet or is that something we should build out? So the helm stuff is not actually in CI yet. The mixed stuff is being tested, which is important. The helm stuff is not. Nikolai, do you have any thoughts? I know you're the one who did the make testing, which is crucially important. We're breaking up really badly, Nikolai. I can't really understand you. Nikolai, you might help with you. Did you type for a short while because you're breaking up quite significantly? Like we're getting every other vowel. Okay, I think we officially lost him. Yeah, I think you may be trying to just connect and go the direction and figure out his audio stuff. Okay, so. I'm absolutely with you though about testing, figuring out what the demo is, getting it cleanly documented and testing the type putting it in the CI. One of the things that I've noted is I've had a couple of people internally been asking to go and keep the tires on the code and sort of we have all the pieces but they're in various places. Like we have the quick start but it's oriented towards the make files. We've got the home docs but they don't tell you anything about how to get a cluster. We've got some stuff about how to do the checks with make check in the quick start but we don't have that stuff related to the home charts. We have, I don't think we have any documentation about using Skydive to go and visualize what's happening. So there is sort of the traditional scatter gather problem in documentation. You write excellent boxes, you're doing things and they don't all quite hang together as a unitary whole. Yeah, so I guess the part of what we need to do then is come up with a plan similar to how we drive the release itself. Perhaps what we need to do then is come up with a Google document or an issue or a spec that we can then track and say here are the documentation tasks that we need to do and that way we can track each major item and make sure that the progression gets done. So it could be something like make sure that how you spin up a cluster with Helm is properly documented. How do you, and just to get like an outline of what needs to be in there. Well, I mean, it turns out actually that the Helm docs are actually really amazingly well done. You did a good job on the Miliya. They even include things like the following is likely going to have to be done if you get an error like this because there's a degenerate case where you have to go run a few Q and control commands to set up permissions for things. So they're very well done as far as they go. They're just capturing the Helmi bits which are important to capture. But again, if you're sending someone to the here's where to go kick the tires. You end up jumping them from doc to doc to doc. I see. So the issue that we're having is we have good documentation. It's just we need to lay it out in a very and a very easy to follow way. The getting started guide is excellent. If you're going to start and you're going to use the make machinery. The guide is extremely well done. If you have a cluster and you just want to run a home chart and you're not worrying about how you're going to convince yourself that anything is working or see how it's actually going on. And I think this is actually right and proper for those guides as they stand. I think they're actually scoped correctly. If you do want to be able to point people to the oh, you just want to get home going. Here's what you do. But we don't really have sort of a demo walk for you. And that might be helpful. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, I'm back. I hope. And you sound great. Okay. So wireless range extenders actually help and do their job, right? Okay. So I wanted to talk a little bit about the example. So right now I'm working on replicating the demos that we have in the main repo, in the examples repo. And I already have two more demos and have examples there. So it will make it because I split kernel ICMP and PICMP into separate repos. This will make essentially five demos in the examples. So I know that this is a little bit of a kind of controversial topic that we have discussed about this back and forth. And maybe for the first release, we are just going to go with the main repo. That makes sense because that's what we have today. But maybe at some point we could just point the people to these examples repo and everything could be there. Yeah, I like that approach. I'd even make a suggestion and please know this is only half thought through. So don't take me too seriously. I'd even make a suggestion that we would be going more granular, right? So if, for example, we were to go and say, look, we have the VPN, imagine doing a repo for each network service endpoint that we could basically use because then imagine that the way the CI ends up running. So if I just go and I change the ICMP responder, then the commit goes into that repo, its CI goes and tests to make sure the ICMP responder NSC is still working. And if it's working, then we go. And so we don't have to test the broad swath of everything because that has nothing to do with the ICMP responder code, right? As long as it properly comes up and does its thing and a known to be working version of the network service mesh, then we're done. We don't have to go test the crazy auto healing stuff and all these other things. And that might significantly speed up the CI by basically breaking things down into smaller repo pieces, but. Well, I mean, then how you should have separate CI's for each of the examples. So this is actually a really common pattern when you have a little bit more control over your infrastructure. So I'll give you an example. The people at ThoughtWorks, which is headed by people like Martin Fowler created a build system which they unfortunately named Go. And, but one of the things that they did was they had the insight from experience that when you build a project that you have, that you do have dependencies on how the projects are laid out and you have a set of pipelines. So there is some similarity in CircleCI with pipelines. But part of the issue that ends up running is that when you trigger a build for, let's say a network service client and you don't change any of the APIs, then in that scenario, it's like, what do you have to rebuild? Do you have to be a rebuild NSM manager? No, you have to rebuild perhaps your demos and rerun those and so on. So you end up with this dependency management thing that occurs, so that when you trigger things that in order to make sure that they continue to work against, as you said, known versions. And in the long run, what ends up happening is you would then peg things like the NSM manager to a semantic version itself. So instead of having the umbrella semantically version, which you could still do, but each component gets their own semantic version with similar properties that you can then use to to verify that things work or don't work and control the artifacts as they change. So there may be some strategies that we can look at. I'm not suggesting we use their build system because I don't think it'll be a good fit for us, but there may be some strategies we can use to simplify and head towards this pattern as you described. Yeah, let me be super clear about the pattern I just described. Number one, it's a half-baked idea. Number two, everything you're talking about doing for the examples, repo-nigli, is actually a positive step forward. Whether we do or do not have to fight it is a good idea. Please don't slow down or stop at all because I had a harebrained idea. No, no, no. I can tell you. Well, I mean, sometimes it happens.  And the answer is, I have no idea if this is a better way. No, for me, so what I see now with examples that essentially I have, for example, nightly builds, which verify every day that the examples that I have for building and running against whatever we have in master, or at least the published latest images, that's more clear because I don't build images. I just download whatever is out there. And I don't know. I mean, if you have to do this on five different repos, example by example, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, I know, there are trade-offs and you're absolutely right.  I mean, this is always the trade-off. Like, great modularity brings both costs and benefits. And there is some point at which it stops making any any damn sense. And I just don't know where that is here. But either way, I think breaking down to examples is probably wide. I would be unsurprised if it turns out that we don't quite get there for the 0.1 release. But I think the work is still really important. All right, so in terms of actionable items for the release. So it sounds like the main thing that we need to do is ensure that the documentation that exists across the board and the documentation that Ilya put together for Helm gets adapted in a way that we can say, here's how you run a demo. And make sure that those are tested by people who have less or no experience with NSM in order to make sure that they're readable and understandable. I actually have a classic that I'm gonna use. When we did the initial open sourcing of VPP, there is, I went and got a director. Try the instructions. Yeah, would that right for in mind? I do, I do. He's gonna be deeply amused, but possibly not cooperative. But the thing was, when he could sit down and from the instructions cold in less than 30 minutes actually have things working, that's when I knew we had good directions. Cause he's a bright guy, but he probably hasn't touched code in 15 years. That sounds good to me. Okay, so let's see, let me make sure this gets added to the release notes. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, I added as a to-do item. So you can do a search for to-do in the release notes area. What I'm going to do is I'm gonna go in after the fact and start putting together a documents board, create a new board, and start outlining the various things that we need to do in there as in order to improve and get to the state where we want. So we'll turn these into GitHub issues effectively. So interestingly, this could probably live on the, this could probably live on the Network Service Smash site page because this is where I think most of the work's gonna be done so we could then match them to issues there. Let's see, in terms of the, so in terms of the document then, I think those are the main ones that I wanted to cover in this one. So I guess one last thing is on unknown issues. What do we want to do on known issues? Do we just want to leave the generic thing that we have at the moment or do we want to call out very specific things? Yeah, I mean, we could just say it's awful, please. Don't consider it in production if that's the motivation. The way I usually put it to people because it's a little fettler is to say this is our 0.1 release, which would be treated exactly like a 0.1 release. Yeah, and I'm happy to leave it as a generic thing right now because I think enumerating everything would just be a waste of time unless there's something really big that we need to call out. Don't use VPP in this way because a kernel bug will cause your kernel to panic. And even then, I'd still be skeptical of whether we should stick that in or not. So how about we leave it as it is at the moment and then once we actually get to a proper 1.0 release and then what we can do is we can create a separate known issues page document because that's also, I think, should not just be like a static page. It should be something that over time as major issues are discovered, we can then populate that page on the website. So here are the known issues for the 1.0.1 release and that way people can then track and make sure that they see what things are going on and so on. Does that sound reasonable? Cool, I don't have anything else on the release notes at this point. I think it's just a bunch of task items and then once we're closer to doing the release we can go over and make sure that everything is as we want. So as you know, nothing's set in stone until we sign the commit. So let's see, it's back to the meeting notes and let's see who's on right now. So it doesn't look like we have any of the Volk people so I can't ask them any questions regarding to the videos or anything like that.  I've been slammed with my time schedule but things are opening up now. Now that I had a product release that I had to push through earlier and that's done. So... If you are available, we can do follow up after like this call. Yeah, the only problem I'm gonna run into is I'm supposed to be checked out of the room in 15 minutes, so I'm not gonna have too many more. So, but I have a persona in mind in terms of how I want to try to approach it and that's all pitched out to you. I'll pitch that to you and I'll put together some slides at Wernicke style and see if it meshes well with how you're thinking of things. How you're thinking of things. Yeah, slides already, I mean. Yep, so I mean, I also like for the intro stuff we still need to get some slides together as well and those are probably gonna come in a little bit hot. One of the things I would love to do specifically for the intro talk is we have a brand new color palette, we have a bunch of new graphics to work with. I may tweak some of the iconography, but so. Oh, hey Ed, if you wanna hear something a bit comical I got another email from the Fido Summit saying that I needed to register. Sorry. And I went in to register, I paid the 50 bucks for the other one and it turns out that it's a radio button so I can't register for both. So I let them know. But just a heads up, they are charging us for and they are charging the speakers to speak, so. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's grumble grumble. Yeah. Okay, so the only other thing that's really bugging me at this point is the what is NSM to replace on the site? Because at this point my inclination is just to delete that article. And then we can, Jeffrey said he was coming up with a first draft and he may have already done so because he's pretty on the ball like that. And so perhaps for the what is new we can, if we get a new version of that then we can stick it up but I'm not comfortable with what's up there anymore. The thing was written over a year ago and has really old concepts that have moved on. Yeah, I mean the other thing I wanna make sure we do is that we sort of fully express the breadth of what we're doing and where we're going because while we absolutely are gonna be taking care of the NFE guys, I think we actually have even more going on on enterprise than we do on NFE. I agree entirely with that. And so, yeah, I mean literally every enterprise networking guy I talked to who is coping with the cloud transformation stuff, they like their eyes light up immediately when this thing becomes a plex because they only start talking about the use cases they need it for. Yeah. And I think now that we have the envoy as an example let's see this could speed up. Oh, I'm super happy about that by the way that makes me so happy. Yeah, the envoy one is easy. It's also makes it very easy for me to deflect the Istio question. Still like why, well not really deflect but give a good answer because one of the questions that I get asked almost every time that I speak with someone is why don't we land this thing in Istio or why not contribute it to Istio? And I usually have two responses to that. But the one I've been using most recently is that well, we don't focus on Istio because it's an L4, L7 and L4, L7 you don't have L2, L3 consume L4, 7 you have the opposite L4, L7 consume L2, L3. And we are providing envoy. We have an integration with envoy which acts as a network service. And that envoy could be controlled, potentially controlled by Istio if the Istio people choose to do so. Yeah, which actually also reminds me do you guys feel good enough about that example that you wanna sit down with Matt Klein? Oh, we know Matt's not gonna be in KubeCon Europe. That's right. We could arrange a call after KubeCon Europe and sit down and show him what we got and or we could potentially show what the envoy community got when we get comfortable. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. And we can also show him a concept of potentially integrating it in with the Kubernetes networking in as well as opposed to just a side thing if that's a direction we want to target. But I think even just showing off the envoy as we have at the moment, I think would be fantastic because people can ask for whatever service that they want with an envoy that's been created by someone else as or by the operator and get much better control over how these things work. Yep. Yep. Right now, running envoy as a side car gives the user control over, gives the pod or whoever has access to manipulate that pod control over envoy as opposed to the operator. And so that's a pretty big shift that we're proposing. And it's one that I think will be very well received. So I'll add that. That's it. I don't have anything else. Is there anything else that people wanna talk about? Cool. So in that scenario, let's yield back 10 minutes of our time and I am looking forward to seeing each of you in Barcelona. Yep. Probably most of us. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing you sooner, Ed. A tiny bit, although it'll be a little bit of the afternoon before I say I'm gonna go in, so. Not fair enough. Fair enough. All right, talk to you later. Okay. Bye. Bye.