Okay, this second panel is on lessons from the past and policy issues for the new administration. I'm always glad to hear about lessons from the past being a historian myself. Not enough people talk about the past and its relevance for the future. And I wanna just take a couple of seconds before I introduce our panelists to say just a quick word about lessons of the past. It seems to me the most important one that we've seen is that democracy in Taiwan works. I think if you look back at some past elections we've had, everybody was terribly worried. Would people behave themselves? Would they accept the results? Would somebody in power stay in power even if he didn't win? You didn't hear any of that kind of thing. I think everybody expects Taiwan elections now to work smoothly and they do, which I think is encouraging and exciting for it's all. I think there were just a couple of other things came to mind in terms of lessons of the past. I think China was extraordinarily quiet. It did try to coerce people but in a far more civilized fashion than in the past there wasn't a lot of fire and brimstone around. And so I think we did see change and historians don't forecast but I would forecast that China having learned that their candidate can win even if they're not threatening may do that on into the future. I think we also saw, I think Taiwan will not have the problem of leadership transitions but as we look at what the policies of this administration may be in its second term we must not forget that there will be leadership transitions around the region and that 2012 may well be a period of great caution. Chinese leaders don't like to do much before party congresses and even perhaps paralysis but we are gonna see elections in South Korea, a sort of election in Hong Kong, Japan's governments rise and fall quickly and of course we're going to have an election here so it will continue to be a challenging year but perhaps one in which everybody can step back and look at the stabilization of relations and along those lines it seemed to me that the new administration in Taiwan does need as some people were suggesting in the last panel and I'm sure my colleagues will hear, to reach out to those that didn't vote blue and particularly on economic issues to do something about economic reform, the wealth gap and some of the social justice issues which didn't turn the election but nevertheless are terribly important that there's also a critical issue of saying clearly to China that expectations for what is going to happen in a second ma administration and cross-trace relations shouldn't be too high that China did not win the election for Maying Zhou that lots of other things were going on and then as far as the United States goes I think there's gonna have to be a real active effort to prolong the kind of gains that Taiwan made and the run up to the election that just because the election season is now over doesn't mean that the United States should not follow through and indeed add to things like visa waiver and high level visits, there are Tifa talks and other things that need to be done and once the attention of the election fades I hope that the administration will not fade along with it and go back to a distant relationship with Taipei. Okay having done my editorial comments I want to go ahead and introduce briefly our very prestigious panel. We have three very important people and interesting people to hear. First of all David Wong who is an Associate Research Fellow of the Institute of European and American Studies at Academia Seneca and Adjunct Associate Professor in the Graduate Institute of National Development at National Taiwan University. His current research focuses on electoral studies, US and European politics and comparative regionalism and many of us in the room know him from the time that he spent on the Mainland Affairs Council and with Tech Row here in Washington. Gao Subo is currently the Executive Director of the 21st Century Foundation, a leading policy think tank in Taiwan. He served in the administration of President Maying Zhou as a Minister Without Portfolio in charge of legal affairs, served in the Taiwan Legislative Yuan and is a faculty member at Shershin University Law School. So he's gonna be our legal advisor perhaps. And finally but not least of course Douglas Paul, Vice President for Studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and of course again as we most know him as Director of the American Institute in Taiwan, in Taiwan previously on the National Security Council staffs of the Reagan and Bush HW administration and Director and there he was, Director of Asian Affairs and then Senior Director and Special Assistant to the President. Why don't we go ahead? Thank you Professor Tucker's kind introductions. Ladies and gentlemen, my name's David Huang. I would like to first thank Dr. Richard Bush of the Brookings and Dr. Bonnie Glasser of the CSI for kind invitation to allow me to share my idea and some view about the 2012 election in Taiwan. I heard something about the Taiwan election result from Professor Zhu. I think he already steals some of my lines in the following representations. So I've been pretty timid to present my view but in any case I will skip the highlights of election result and go directly to the interpretations. So one quick point about the turnout. I think it is generally agreed that the 2012 presidential elections is vest with the negative campaign which leave no rooms for policy debate. For example, Ma accused Tsai on Yuchang Gen Tech case, Chen Xiebian scandals whereas Tsai accused Ma met local gangster to fix elections and his improper acceptance of illegal donations of a big corporations. Such negative campaigns tend to depress the turnout and I think according to the voting behavior this is the case and this may explain why turnout rates are lowest one even though the elections considered to be very close which should promote the turnout. Moreover, negative campaigns are more likely to depress turnout of the young voters, first time voters and those who do not have strong party IDs. And you know that these voters tend to be more or less in favor of the DPP and given that the number of KMT supporters is larger than the DPP then selectively depressing turnout would work for the KMT. Another popular interpretations of the 2012 elections regarded as a referendum of 1992 consensus. For example, United Daily editorial in the, I think the next day of the elections it said that the victory, this is the election is the victory of economic voters and endorsement of 1992 consensus. I think there are good reasons to resist such interpretations. Presidential elections always won and lost by many factors including the party trends, candidate qualities, campaign dynamics and policy stances I think Professor Xu just mentioned. A lot of the factors that would influence the election result. Voters vote for Ma and Tsai for various reasons. The perception of the 1992 consensus may be the only one of them, but poll after poll show that more than 60% of Taiwanese people do not know what is the content of the 1992 consensus. The debate always simply confused the voter perception on it. Most people take it as a cue, as a cue for the stability is close to Taiwan Strait and some refuse to hear the debate and did not vote at all. Therefore, it would be more accurate to say that Ma's win is an endorsement of cross-strait stabilities whereas Tsai failed to convince the people that she can. But here, Beijing serve as a veto player in the sense that whatever Tsai proposed need Beijing's approval, at least consent. If you still insist that, I know audience may still think that Ma's win is an endorsement of 1999 consensus, then take this, one can argue that such endorsement is in fact in decline since 2008, given that 1.4 million less of the Taiwanese people vote for Ma in 2012. Moreover, despite in the campaign, DPP tried to doge the issues of 1990 consensus, a double moderate concept of Taiwan consensus declare Taiwan is ROC. Still, Taiwan Solidarity Union, TSU, which campaign against ACFA, against Ma, against 1990 consensus managed to win 9% of the votes. In such vote for the party list, carry a clear message for policy preference, which will be duly noted by Beijing. If the so-called peace bonus as a result of the 1990 consensus continue not to trickle down to the average Taiwanese people, then it would not be surprised that 1990 consensus be rejected in the future Taiwan elections. In other words, among Taiwanese people, the term 1990 consensus serve only with instrumental values, which is tied up with the promise of a stability and delivery of economic benefits. Can 2012 election be explained by economic votings? I think it can, to some extent it can. But unlike the electoral behavior in Western democracy, where we usually find it to be a sociotropical and retrospective votings, the Taiwanese voting voters seem to embrace the pocketbook and the prospective voting in 2012. Even though people does not feel national economy is in a good shape, and maybe people feel that mass performance is not up to their expectations, people still vote for continuities and more certain futures against the change and uncertain future of the Tsai's government. So Tsai's campaign on mass incompetence and his records of economic inequalities, hoping that the test of a mass would win her the presidencies. However, due to a period of great uncertainties in economic downturns, people may feel that she does not provide convincing policies that would eliminate uncertain futures. If the bulk analysis is correct, then Tsai could well be defeated simply by the uncertain nature of any challenges. Given that the 2012 elections, Taiwanese voters are prospective and pocketbook oriented, it would not be surprised that money pulled the strings. So you'll see that you have the one party like KMT with a massive amount of party asset. And then you have the party with no party asset rely on piggy banks, small amount donations, raise only 200 million NT dollars, whereas KMT, last year reported by the media, that the star market operations make the KMT through the star market operations, they earn 2.9 billion NT dollars. So you see that there's a lot of differences. Of course, the KMT is incumbent, they have always administrative resources to devote in the elections. But you know, this is not an excuse to say, we just want to keep, it's not an excuse for the DPP defeat, just want to put you into some perspectives. Elections itself, you have differential resources. And then this is actually also shows that Beijing's inference successfully penetrate into the KMT's local party machines. For example, Hualien County magistrate, Fu Kunqi, I believe he's no friend of President Ma. He's a very close ally to James Song. But in the end, he come up to support the Ma's campaign. It's because that he, according to him is that because Beijing said that the Chinese tourists is critical for, Chinese tourists are critical for Hualien's economies. So I think Beijing's inference is subtly inference. Even though Professor Tucker just said that Beijing leadership did not articulate or use a very strong rhetoric or threat against Taiwanese voters, but I think the subtle operations seem to work pretty well. Again, that you will see that the CEOs of the big corporation Taiwan endorse Ma publicly. But I think that if you read their message carefully, I think that most of the big corporation CEOs seem to say that they endorse 992 consensus. Try to refrain from endorsing particular candidates. I think this is following the trend of the businessmen don't like to endorse either side. They would like to be more neutral. But then this time, obviously, the endorsement of the 992 consensus is very important for them to show the flags to Beijing and then make their business in China a lot easier to do. Okay, so this is generally an interpretation of election result. Then if you think that in this way, this campaign is more about economics and I think in the futures Professor Xu just said the Ma's administration will be occupied, preoccupied with all kind of economic issues in Taiwan. But if you compare the 10 year party plan of the DPP and the Golden 10 year and national prospect of the KMT's, there are a lot of similarities. Our economics, our social issues, our agriculture and environmental and regional policies, there are a lot of similarities between Ma's and Tsai's campaign pledges which should be sorted out as Ma's policy priorities. For example, FTA with trade partners, both DPP and KMT agree we should have more FTAs without major trade partners. Fair taxations also mentioned in the Ma's campaign pledges as well as the Tsai's campaign pledge. Affordable housing, income equality, structural reform, SME assistance, promote green technology, industrial innovations, regional balance, food security mechanism. In fact, all these issues are mentioned. If you compare Ma's and Tsai's campaign pledges is exactly the same. So I think in fact, this is not a bad idea. I would suggest that in fact, a trial of DPP policy simply does not necessarily show the weakness of the KMT. Rather, it would enhance the cross-party co-operations, FTA elections. New administration should also promote more liberalized region for business with Taiwan. That is to eliminate red tabs, regulating multinational corporations to do business and foreign expatriate to stay in Taiwan. Union authority regulations is one way to encourage FTIs. Ma's administration may need to speed up the negotiation over the FTA with major trade partner. Currently we, I think everybody know that in this room that we have some progress with the negotiation on FTA with Singapore. But now major trade partner like Japan, United States and maybe EU should be our own focus because the Korea already signed an FTA with the United States and EU. So I think it's very important for Taiwan to do so as well. It should be declared witness to engage TPP negotiation immediately rather than waiting for, or preparing for 10 years to join. I think United States government is very, very ambitious to take the leaderships over the TPP negotiations. I believe that by the 2012 this year, by the end of 2012, there will be some format or agreement of the TPP between the United States and other eight partners, trade partners. So Taiwan should try to engage TPP negotiation as soon as possible rather than preparing it for 10 years. One way to show the Taiwan's determination to negotiate TPP is to follow Japan examples by showing the intention to resolve the beef disputes with the United States. T-File talks between the US and Taiwan can also include a potential content of the TPP's format currently under negotiations among the P9s. There's another important idea in the mass campaigns. Free economic demonstration zone is a good start to promote regional liberalization among specific regions in Taiwan. But it should not be used as a substitute for Taiwan's global strategy. Trade obfuscations remains a priority. Mars should waste no time to implement a structural reform by promoting balance between the manufacturers and service sector that's also in the Mars campaign projects. For example, promote high tech value added at traditional industries. Strengthen R&D, enhance IPR protections and most importantly create a tougher region to punish illegal technology transfer from Taiwan to elsewhere. Money to recognize his promise to raise a basic level of wages and shorten the weekly working hours with his promise to encourage private investment and FDIs. During the economic downturns, of course, my promise to establish a much better social safety net for poor people and those unemployed. But at the same time, he also pledged to improve income equality by reform taxation system. But above policy are also likely to increase tax and spendings, which could potentially increase national debt and tax burdens. If Mars is sincere to deliver this kind of promise, he should work closely with DPP and other opposition parties. In short, Mars policy should be domestic driven and soft, domestic driven and soft. Though some solutions may require external help, but Mars could only consider domestic, especially economic problem, can only be solved by external policies. If that is the case, then China as usual could be considered as the savior of Taiwan's economic by Mars and closer economic gains may well be Mars' top concerns. And this concern would inevitably force Mars to make concessions with China in other policy areas, such as social-cultural framework agreements. This topic will be discussed in the next panels. On policies that KMT and DPP diverged, perhaps Mars should consult the opposition first before implementing it after all. DPP still retained 46% of the vote shares. Even though KMT has the majority in the LOI and the presidency, KMT can push its own policies single-handedly, but the social costs will be very high. For example, it is about time to consolidate and refine cross-strait policies rather than venturing into new policy territories, raise the exploitation among the peoples without delivering and trickle down the benefits to the average Taiwanese people. That would be a disaster again for Mars. Energy policy regarding nuclear powers should be more transparent debated in Taiwan. For DPP, I think that it needs to develop a set of coherent policies platform which would mitigate Taiwan's voters' anxiety over the uncertain futures. It needs to focus on LOI and players and effective opposition parties. With 40 MPs in the LOI and DPP party caucus can initiate its own, its own legislations, as well as scrutiny and monitor the legislation in a constructive way. DPP should ensure that KMT policy are properly debated in the civil society and hold KMT responsible for any abuse of human rights. Thank you. First, thank you, Professor Tucker and my colleagues, panelists. I'm very glad and actually it's my pleasure to be here and I want to thank you, Dr. Richard Bush and Bonnie to bring me here in Washington just before the Chinese New Year. I think... At first I want to echo that Professor Tucker just mentioned in her introductory remarks that for the people and I should say friends concerned and care about Taiwan here, we should first report to you that the democracy in Taiwan works again. And the legitimacy of the election process and of the result of people's choice are well accepted. It is on this solid basis that we can look forward for the future policy challenges for the new administrations. I think before I left for Washington, my affiliate institute, that is the 21st Century Foundation, we host a lunch for a group of international delegates who came to observe the elections in Taiwan. And actually that group of delegates include our panelists and the moderator of the first panel. And according to actually their observation and I think all you can hear up to now, many of our panelists, they have different idea about the reasons for winning and losing of the election. But they agree on one thing and actually that also echoes many of the commentaries of domestic or international medias. That is it's a clear win for Ma by his stability and the predictable predictability approach over uncertainty. That's I think a consensus that no matter what's the interpretation of the winning and losing reasons of the election, but it seems that most of people tend to agree and conquer on this reason behind various other things. That is this is a stability approach and wins over uncertainty. And I think in other words, there are I mean our topic, our the title of this panel, it's less than from the past and the challenge, the policy implication for the future I think in other words, I don't want to explore more about the election itself, but I want to put more emphasis on that according to this the topic and the stability and predictability approach. I think there are these stabilizing factors that we can recognize from the past experience and therefore we need to deal with those destabilizing factors. And this is actually my understanding of the title of this panel. And I will try to point out two issues that I think will be most destabilizing factors in the future and which also happen to clearly follow the battle lines of the blue and the green camps in the campaign. I will say two major destabilizing factors and as two issues, I think the first issues I should call it distribution issues or the issue of the imbalance of regional development. And this is I think most of the friends here are aware of the byproducts of the globalization and the second destabilizing factors that I want to mention about actually, I think it's the approach of the open up society, the approach of the issue of the open up society and certainly it's open up Taiwanese society toward mainland China. This is the second issue I want to talk about. I think returned to the first one that the distribution issue or in other words the imbalance of the regional development. Some economists actually have argued that the worldwide phenomena of distribution inequality as a byproduct of the globalization that is the famous saying after the occupying Wall Street movement that the 1% the famous somebody that the 1% versus the 99% this distribution equality actually has a very stunning parallel phenomena of imbalance of regional development, I mean in Taiwan. One famous economist advanced this theory it's actually professor Zhu Yunheng's brother that is professor Zhu Yunpeng. And according to his theory, said down till the central part of Taiwan actually the Taizhong Zhanghua Nantou areas are included within the radius of the globalization force and are by a large benefit by this process. But the southern part that means Yunjia Nan and the Gaoping the southern part is generally left out and suffer in this process. Though although this actually is a phenomena, it's a worldwide phenomena, it's a global phenomena and the byproduct of the globalization but in Taiwan it is coupling with another things that make this very serious and very difficult to deal with. That is in Taiwan when we talk about globalization actually to a very large extent, we actually are talk about a further economic integration with mainland China. So this coupling with the phenomena of distribution issues becomes very difficult to deal with especially in Taiwan because it turn it into a highly political or ideological issue. So this is the first thing I think after this election actually the Mao administration need to deal with this situation and I think this is a well argued issues during the whole campaign and we should say that actually DPP to some extent successfully raise up these issues and put it into a political agenda. So this is the issues low relatively domestic one but I think this is the issues that in new administrations that person might need to deal with it in a very technical way and in a very sophisticated way. This is the first thing that I would like to share with our audience that is the first issue that we need to face in a new administration. And let me turn to the second one. The second issue that actually I call it the issue of open up society. This is the second destabilizing factors. We call it the issue of open up Taiwan in society toward mainland China. There are a lot of examples to demonstrate the difference between the blue camp and the green camp on these issues. For example, whether open up the higher education system toward the students from mainland China in a larger scale, is it good thing or bad thing? Whether it is a platform for building up a common empathy or like other people, some friends in a green camp they argue it will be a story of choice. I think everyone here understand the analogy, the story of choice. So this is one example. And another example is for example like foreign direct investment. Does the foreign direct investment in the high tech sector say, let's say whether Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing company build up a high-end capacity in mainland or the other very similar example, the incoming capital from mainland investing into the Taiwan infrastructure, let's say like telecom. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Is this a chance for a bond for common interest or a weakness while resulting from dependence? This is all arguable, this is arguable. But I shall very sincerely report to you that in general I do believe that the open up approach is beneficial to both side in terms of real interest as well as common empathy. This is actually an experiment the mass administration implement in the past few years, although in not a very big scale, but it tries to move forward to open up Taiwan society to mainland China. And I think the good effect of this approach will gradually flourish and appear to many sectors of the society. But there is a real, I think a real challenge or real dilemma for this open up approach. I think after this election we already hear that some of our friends domestic or inside in Taiwan or abroad that they begin to argue that the ultimate trump card of the open up approach is the inspiration and potential pressure of Taiwan's democracy upon mainland China's authoritarian rule. I really believe that democracy is more desirable and democracy is safer neighboring another democracy, especially this neighbor is huge. So, but this also means that Taiwan's democracy is potentially challenged to the nature of the authoritarian rule in mainland China. And this in turn indicates two things. That first, Taiwan's democracy is attractive so long as it is an unique achievement among Chinese society. The emphasize here is on Chinese. And this means that the Niteukul consensus based on the ROC constitution, it's a very useful tool. And the second thing, the second indication is the short term real interest, which is dependent on the good will, party dependent on good will of mainland authority make conflict with the long term strategic interest which is potentially challenged to the legitimacy of the mainland authority. So, this means when we want to talk about the democracy inspiration from Taiwan, actually this will put Taiwan in a dilemma that I think they will need to be addressed in the second term, we have chance to address it. That is we need a synthetic strategy that can balance this short term real interest and against this long term strategic interest. I think this is the conclusion that I think we want to keep this going for a longer period of time. We need to deal with the two issues that I just mentioned about. The first is the distribution issues. And the second is this a synthetic strategy between the short term real interest and the long term strategic interest. And this concludes my presentation. Thank you very much. Well good morning everyone, I want to start by expressing my thanks to Richard Bush and Bonnie Glazer and Brookings and CSIS for organizing this event. You brought together at a time of high interest a really impressive group of people from the Washington area as well as across from Taiwan and the mainland. A lot has been said this morning about the election. I want to subscribe entirely to the very fine remarks of our good friend, Julian Han's presentation on what has been observable about the election over the last few weeks and the conclusions he's drawn. And but more importantly, I want to in a personal capacity express my heartfelt congratulations to the people of Taiwan for a very successfully conducted election campaign and election outcome. The, if you look back, most of you have a good memory. If you look back a few years, we've had some pretty contentious elections and pretty unhappy outcomes in the view of many voters in Taiwan over the two bullets and what consequences they may or may not have had in 2004. Many people in 2008 at the DPP camp thought it would be the end of their party if they were defeated in that election and they were heavily defeated. And yet here we are just having a very vibrant campaign with a multi-party system and a DPP that really resuscitated itself impressively. The observations on the street when you saw the election taking place this last weekend were entirely of a different kind. It was a quiet, a calm, an acceptance and a participation level that really, I think, is a world-class and really impressive and deserves full congratulations. The election marks the first of the important thresholds of 2012 that we're gonna have to cross electorally. We've got elections coming up through the year, as has been mentioned earlier in the previous panel, in Korea, Malaysia, Russia, a kind of election in China or a selection process in China and our own election which is gonna distract us more and more as the year goes on. I'm not of the school that the election of Miss Tsai Ing-Wan would have somehow put us in a perilous position but I do think that message of stability and continuity is one that can be welcomed by Taiwan's neighbors and by the United States. One of the important outcomes after the election and it was referenced in the earlier panel was that indirectly referenced. President Ma has offered in the years of his four years return ahead to meet every six months or so with the opposition now. I'm sure between now and the first such meeting there'll be all kinds of ups and downs politically but I think the gesture is an appropriate one. When the election result is good for the winner but not overwhelming and when the issues that Taiwan faces are of the nature that they are, that kind of consultative mechanism will be really important to sustaining public support for the challenges that Taiwan faces. Among the challenges they face are the two parties. We've just had speakers who represent youth in both wings of the KMT and DPP relative to the leadership generally. KMT is long on experience and short on youth if you look at it from a distance. They seem to know that the KMT headquarters was full of young people who were getting involved in the process. Lots of 20-somethings and 30-somethings which augurs well for their future. The DPP by contrast has always been long on youth and short on experience and they're gonna be short of experience for another few years but I think they have been very conscientiously trying to develop talent that can put themselves forward in the coming elections because we will be leaving behind a very veteran generation going into the next four years and cultivating new talent in both parties not to mention if TSU and PFP find some way to reinvigorate themselves will be important challenge as an issue going forward. Much of the foreign interest in Taiwan's election has focused on the cross-strait implications as you all know. I was sort of distressed to see that a number of media outlets to include Larry News Hour last night referred to Mr. Ma as the pro-China candidate. Shorthand is inevitable in journalism but that's a little bit too short. I think Mr. Ma has a different view about China but it doesn't make him pro-China and I don't think you would say the same thing about Dr. Tsai being anti-China. I think we need to raise the level of our discourse a little bit even when we're trying to be concise and quick. The, they do, however, the new Ma administration and their counterparts that they have to work with in the legislative union face a lot of issues in the cross-strait area. Mr. Ma kept his agenda modest for the future and I think it remains modest in the aftermath of the election. He knows that from all that he's said and done you can sense that he knows there's a constraint on how far he can go with the public. He made it clear with his statement about the possibility of political dialogue with the mainland that it would be beyond his term in office that any kind of agreement could be reached and that Taiwan is not ready for it and when that time comes in his view he stated that Taiwan would need both legislative action and a referendum to support any kind of political agreement with the mainland. It's not gonna be where the political dialogue is that focuses attention for the next four years. It's gonna be on cross-strait economic and cultural issues. There is a full agenda that gets down into the weeds very quickly, some of these issues, but they're very important to Taiwan's economic future and to the stability of their obviously ambiguous complex relationship with the mainland and with their neighbors. One of the big challenges that Taiwan faces as it tries to deal with economics and the mainland is that the outlook for economic growth and export markets worldwide is clouded by the future of the European Union's internal financial problems. That's been a big market for Chinese product and Taiwan product to China and then onward to the European market and I say that I'm on the gloomy side of the forecasters on the outlook for Europe being able to provide a lot of growth to help Taiwan deal with its domestic economic challenges that have been outlined in the campaign and in this morning about inequality and income gap and joblessness and low incomes for students starting out trying to find jobs. I would add to that that I have my own doubts about the PRC's own economic future over the medium to longer term. They have to make a transition which Japan made in a way from the 80s to the 90s when they went from a very high availability of low cost or free investment capacity, capital, to having to rely more on consumption-led economy. China knows it has to move in that direction. It's found it difficult to make that step to consumption-driven economics but that's in the future and that will change the way Taiwan producers and whether the agricultural or industrial relate to the mainland and the more distant markets. There's also, as was referenced earlier by Dr. Gao, need to address the framework and the modalities within which Taiwan will expand its educational and cultural exchanges with the mainland. The current number is something like 1,000 officially registered students and 10,000 informal students from the mainland for the 10,000 being in Taiwan for short durations and informal programs. That obviously has a great capacity to grow but it'll be of social sensitivity. Anybody who's read the reports here about how Chinese students are taking places in American public universities that local Asian Americans think they have a right to can understand that in a Taiwan environment with a cross-strait weight feeling so heavily there would be a sensitive political issue and require quite a bit of internal consultation before outcomes can be arrived at. There's a long list of issues that will be on the agenda for US relations with Taiwan. The administration in the last months of the campaign sent over some representatives of the US Trade Representative's Office, USAID and the Energy Department and in each case the conversation sort of bumped up against the need to get on with the Trade and Investment Framework Agreement as a step toward ultimately a higher level of trade integration between the US and Taiwan and greater integration of Taiwan into the regional economic liberalization that's taking place leading up to trade trans-pacific partnership participation by many neighbors and perhaps even by Taiwan in a decade or so. To get to that Trade and Investment Framework Agreement we got a couple of immediate problems. The first of which of course is the well-known one of beef which was the doors on beef trade have been opened and shot and opened and shot and they're shot right now. Now that Mr. Ma has this election behind him he doesn't have to cater to quite so many interests. One would hope that he would be able have a freer hand to try to lead Taiwan in its political system toward accepting the resumption of a much more liberal trade in beef and with that dealing with the Ractopamine issue and the trade in pork. If we can get those out of the way a Tifa, the doors to a Tifa will come I believe wide open. The addressing the internal imbalances in Taiwan is a huge challenge. How you, as I think it was Professor Gao said this is a phenomenon of global characterization, of global character produced by the politics and economics of globalization, the byproduct of globalization. We're having the same problem in this country as many of you know, CEO salaries as their companies go global, keep rising but the pressure on the local employees keeps their incomes down and their benefits limited and that's not just the U.S. It's just about anybody who's involved global trade and if you're of course an entry into globalization you're a new participant, you see the benefits and you're not likely to want to change your behavior to accommodate people who've been benefiting from this system for a long time. So different starting points for those who have to negotiate outcomes that are more equitable for both sides. The demographics are an issue that has been touched upon as well. I don't think there's much Taiwan can do about that. I mean you can create a number of incentives to help people make a decision to have more children but as Singapore has shown over and over again no matter how many schemes you come up with people seem to want one child when they live in small apartments and have two working parents and having more children is a burden because of the cost of education and like. I would expect Taiwan would attempt to address the costs of education, improve the adequacy of housing and try to get the income levels up for people who are entering into the workforce. They have been falling and it's a concern but Taiwan also has to watch out not to let this attention to demographics and economic inequality hurt competitiveness in the long run. That's a tough balance to strike. Those are the major issues as I see them. Obviously Taiwan also has as a final point Taiwan has a lot of space to occupy in the international world. The international civil aviation organization, the UN framework on climate change and I would add Taiwan participation in international financial swap mechanisms that are already taking place in East Asia. If that can be arranged in a way that deals with the question of unofficiality I think would be very beneficial as we look at a three to five year time horizon with potential financial crises awaiting. Thank you very much. Okay, the floor, excuse me, the floor is now open for questions as you have seen there is a roving mic so please wait for that. Please identify yourself and please don't make any speeches because we don't have much time and we want a lot of questions. I'll start over in the back there. Thank you, Donghui Yu with the China Reviews News Agency. My question is for Mr. Paul. The DPP seems to be very angry with what you were talking about in Taiwan before the election. Would you like to clarify your position that you were not interfering with Taiwan's election but the stability across the Taiwan Strait is beneficial for everyone in this region? Thank you very much. Does anybody want to take this question? I'm sorry, I didn't hear the very end of your question that Taiwan something is beneficial to the region. What was that? I'll cross it, okay. Well, when I got to Taiwan, shortly after getting off the plane an old friend asked if he could interview me and asked me a few questions that had been asked repeatedly over the last five months and I answered them in the same way I've been answering them for five months and I've written in several articles all of which are on the website at Carnegie Endowment if you want to have a reference to them. It just happened that according to some people who've talked to me afterwards, I felt that we had a down news cycle at that point and the candidates weren't saying anything new, there were no new polls and so something I said that was old got to be the news. It was never intended, it was said in a private, not in a public setting, not in a speech, it was with a standard media interview but it got played up in ways that were quite unanticipated. Joe Bosco, national security consultant. May I ask a question of the moderator? Nancy, you made the point that you thought it would be advisable for the administration to continue the high level of visits and contacts that it initiated during the campaign and I wonder if you would envision that going as far as Secretary Clinton attending the inaugural of President Ma. And a question for Doug, you thought that Ma would not emphasize the political integration issues with China during the second term, but will that be acceptable to Beijing? After all, the anti-succession law talks about exhausting the possibilities of peaceful unification. There couldn't be a more opportune time for that scenario than a Ma second term and he is at least perceived by many, perhaps in China, as being pro-China. Before I turn it over for the real answer, I would just say I would certainly be delighted if Secretary Clinton wanted to go to Taiwan and as I started out by saying I'm a historian and I remember when Dwight Eisenhower, our president, went to Taiwan and I found in the records evidence that John F. Kennedy was planning to go to Taiwan so it would not be totally unprecedented for a very high level American official to go, but I guess I would doubt it. The answer to Nancy's question is, it's your question to Nancy is, would be directly related to how you could answer the question you asked me. I agree with her, I don't think it's gonna happen, it's not gonna be a factor, but the PRC clearly has different views within its vast official and unofficial commentariat. Some of the first questions I got from PRC media outlets were isn't it time now to push ahead? And I was delighted to have the opportunity to respond, that definitely is not the time to push ahead, that the split of the vote in Taiwan shows you there is no clear consensus to go toward a closer political alignment with the PRC or to rupture that and to take risks with something new. The PRC needs to show additional patience and cannot expect Mr. Ma to violate his promise not to address this during his next term of office. And I think it's important for those people interested in Taiwan to express clearly to the PRC about every opportunity that rushing this will have no good outcome. And when I say rushing, that doesn't mean the outcome must necessarily be the PRC's outcome. It's just it's gonna take decades to sort out what the people of Taiwan want to know about their future and to see what the future of China brings. Eric McVade in the Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis. Doug, I'm surprised you didn't mention arm sales. Are you saving it for the third panel? And if so, I'm trying to keep you from having to do that. Well, arm sales run my talks, but I got a two minute bullet fired at me so I skipped over the arm sales portion. Obviously there will be additional arm sales by the United States to Taiwan. What they are, when they are, those are all issues for administration consideration down the road as Taiwan brings its needs to the table with the U.S. But the need for Taiwan to maintain an adequate defense against the can still large threat from the PRC is undiminished. I would throw two questions to China at this point. For years, Chinese have said we cannot restrain our arms build up opposite Taiwan because the DPP might come back. Well, they didn't. This is a testing moment. For years they said we could not expand Taiwan's international space because the DPP might come back, pocket that, and then China will have lost some leverage. Well, the DPP is not coming back for a while. So it's time for China to be asked the question, what about international space and what about reducing the threat to Taiwan? John Zan with CTI TV of Taiwan. The question is for both Doug and for David. David mentioned that the acceptance or rejection of the 92 consensus was only one of the factors impacting the outcome of the elections. Doug, you didn't tell us what it was that you said that aroused the eyeballs of so many people. My question is given the kind of change, the kind of coming around in terms of the DPP position on ECFA, do you foresee a day when the DPP attitude towards the 92 consensus might change because in four years or in eight years when the DPP feels another candidate, he or she may still have to face the 92 consensus. Being one of the factors, or they factor affecting the election outcome, it would not be good for the DPP. So do you see a day when its attitude towards the 92 consensus may come around, may change or may soften for both of you, thank you. Well, thank you, Mr. Zhang's questions. I think I have in my presentation saying that the election result should be interpreted by many manufacturers. The 92 consensus obviously is the main campaign themes of the mass campaign. Obviously, Tai wouldn't respond it directly. Tai's campaigns on social justice, income, equalities and a domestic issue, all sort of domestic issues. So I think there's no intersections between these two campaigns. And that's why it's very, very difficult for us to jump into the conclusion that this election is a referendum of the 90-90 consensus. However, in my presentation, I also said that 90-90 consensus may be taken as a cue, heuristic cue by the ordinary people as a stand for some stabilities across the Taiwan Strait. So I think the more accurate interpretation is more about the stabilities of cross-strait relations rather than the 90-90 consensus. Whatever 90-90 consensus can do, as our panelists said, that is serve as a tool, as an instrument to facilitate a cross-strait negotiation or cross-strait dialogues. It does not have any inherent values. Now that's a very important distinction. DPB of course, Tsai Ing-wen said that she would like to inform the Taiwan consensus if her soon office, but then through the democratic process, anything could happen. So I don't know whether in the futures that the DPB in the future will accept or not accept the Taiwan consensus, maybe come up with some other terms. But vitally, I think it's very important that for any terms, Beijing will serve as a veto players. Even DPB come up with some terms, which maybe closely resemble the 90-90 consensus, but Beijing may disapprove it. Then everything falls. So this is a situation that I think that we should think about, as Dr. said, that is still very divided in Taiwan, divisive in Taiwan. We have 46% versus 52%. And on this issue, on the issue toward China, it's quite divisive. And forming a Taiwan consensus through the democratic procedure seems to be quite a good way to do so. Of course, that now KMT and the CCP already find a way to do so. Carry on based on this process, based on these premises. But I mean, for the DPB, they may find the other way to get on negotiation table. The 92 consensus is a fiction, but it's been a useful fiction. It's permitted things to go forward. I think in talking to people after the election in Taipei, several of my contacts said that there was a contradiction in Ms. Tsai's campaign. On the one hand, she wanted to replace the 92 consensus and criticized it. On the other hand, she wanted to maintain the benefits of ECFA, which could not have been achieved without the 92 consensus. And because she was unable to construct a characterization of the Taiwan consensus that would practically replace the one of the 92 consensus, she was left with a talking point too short in her campaign in our view. And I tend to agree with that assessment, but I would leave it to the political scientists who are gonna pour over the data and the campaigns up and downs to see whether that is true in fact over time. Hi, Nadia Chow with Liberty Times. I have a two question. First one is about the dialogue with the opposition party that President Ma proposed. It sounds like it's too good to be true since it never happened before. What will be the incentive for the two party to cooperate in the following four years instead of game from the other party's failure? Why they want to cooperate? And the other question is, DPP might be the most pro-U.S. party in Taiwan. They always emphasize the importance with the U.S., but this time we didn't really see DPP getting any favor from the U.S. government. Officially, even though U.S. government maintain claim to be neutral, but we saw a lot of other signs that indicated that they prefer Ma to got elected. So what do you think, what went wrong with the DPP's policy? Does that mean that U.S. want to see DPP be more broad to open up to China more and take more aggressive steps to reach out to China? Thank you. Well, it all depends on the ruling party's mentality. So if you think that the elections will not take so long, of course you carry the majority, you can do whatever you want in the L.O.I. and pass any legislations. But I think this would fall into a trap of the opposition parties because opposition party may well be hand you a rope and ask you to hand yourself. So I think the best way for the KMT is try to consult DPP even though on those issue, especially on those issue that both parties have diverged views. I mentioned that nuclear power plan is the one that would be potentially diverging the issues that both sides can sit down to debate and maybe to talk. But if you don't talk, of course you can carry on and then once there's something, some accident happened, then you have to take the full responsibilities. I think over the years, voters are more or less detest of all kind of party struggles based on the political ideologies. I personally believe that the Taiwanese voter would like to have some more, you know, corporations between the parties show some, show the people that they can cooperate for the benefit of the common peoples. What's the second question? Second question. What's your second question? The US policy toward the team defeat. US policies, you know, specialties. No, no, US policies, you know, specialties. Well, I think the, during the election campaign that I think the, there are a lot of rumors that US officials seems to try to use other way to inference the elections, but then officially, time after time that officially that US government come out to say that the US would like to maintain the neutral stance and they would like to cooperate with whatever government elected, whatever party elected as a government, duty elected as a government in Taiwan. So I think that there's always misperceptions and the perception that whether US government really would like to set any fingers or inference the Taiwanese domestic politics. But I sincerely believe that the US government probably as a fellow democracy don't want to interfere with the domestic politics. The Taiwan side, I think the DPP would like to put more and more cautious approach toward China, that's understandable because that you know that it's already, we have the 41% of the total export go to China through Hong Kong and include Hong Kong, Macau. We have last year, we have 12 billions, more than 12 billions US dollars invested in China over the last years, which more than 85% of our FDI go to China. So I think DPP would like to promote more cautious approach. I think KMT also have such incentive to do so because that you know that you have a 16 agreements signed between the self and the errors, you have a three memorandum signed between the self and errors, but then the implementation seems not up to the standards. So I think there's most party have some way to address these issues more cautiously and the worst things for the KMT I think for the mouse government is to think that they have the mandate so they can push forward all kinds of policy they want with China and Doc just said that would not be the wise because for the Beijing to push forward the political negotiation with Taiwan and that I think is very, very, very bad. But I think there's another issue that probably you have to think carefully. In mass campaign pledge, in mass campaign pledge, Mao said that it would like to step by step to set up, mutually set up the official representative office in China and in Taiwan. That exchange of official representative office is quite a lot of symbol in theirs. It remind me that in Hong Kong, if you have the Zhonglian Ban in Hong Kong and Macao, that would be very, very easy for China's inference to coordinate within the in Taiwan and that would consolidate Chinese inference in Taiwan elections. As I said that in, you probably wouldn't believe that the southern part of Taiwan, there are a lot of business. For example, in the Jia Yi, you have the orchid flowers. China would like to buy it. You have the sea bass in Gaoxiong. China would like to buy it. I think there are a lot of penetrations and the grass through the interactions between China and Taiwan. And that ultimately will influence the election result. And I just show you the two examples. One is the CEO, another is the Hualien county magistrate. So these sort of things that would, I think, increase Chinese inference in Taiwanese elections. Not necessarily through the threat, but through very, very subtle way inference of Taiwan voters might. Let me respond for the first question. I think we should distinguish between two things, two levels of corporations. First, I think the basic step is to agree to have a platform and have dialogue toward each other. And I think both of our friends here remember that there is a debate between President Ma and Chairman Cai on ECFA. So at least don't just talk to your own believers or your own supporters. You have a platform to talk to each other. And after this step, then we can talk about is it possible to reach some consensus despite other disagreement? So the first thing is to have this kind of platform to talk to each other. And then there is a second level. Then we have some consensus despite the disagreement. And I think the President Ma is referred to this. That is he would like to have a platform to talk to each other and the regular ones. So I think this is a basic point to mention. And also another thing is that it will push the two sides to cooperate. Actually it's the internal operation or internal rules inside the legislative union. And actually because the inside rule of the legislative union, it's very consensus driven. That means if you know there is a mechanism called Zhengdang Xie Shang or Dangtuan Xie Shang. Actually, if you have three members of legislative union, you can form a group and actually veto any legislative bills you don't like and prolong it to another several months and until the speakers who want to put forward the frozen legislative bills. So this mechanism actually in legislative union in the past drive many corporations between political parties. But the problem is everyone knows we need to cooperate but no one wants to sincerely say that we need to share the political cost fairly. Everyone wants to say that we want to cooperate but they want to show to their own supporters that we are very insistent but they are really behind doors. They want to cooperate. So it become a very strategic behavior. That is, in fact, they will be compelled to cooperate by the internal operation and internal rules of the legislative union. But no one want to admit it publicly. That's the situations. Okay, one final, Yohan, you wanna? No, just, okay. No, I just want to clarify one point. David mentioned that the mod and creation during the second term might establish the official representative office on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. I don't think that's an exact correct statement. I think what has been mentioned by some official is a two-steps approach. Number one, some semi-government or government-sponsored trade association, trade promotion association and industrial association. They might be able to set up a liaison office on each side of the Strait. That would be the first step. And the possibility that the staff and Arab, the two semi-official organization, I think they might also explore the possibility. But actually, I wonder, Beijing really is actually open to that idea. If you have Arab, the office in Taipei can easily become the target of protest and demonstration. It might not be the most fruitful way for a very smooth cross-propagation. So I don't think that would happen very soon. Okay, I've been told I can take one more, even though the food is getting cold back there. Yes, please. I'm Tony from Central News Agency, Taiwan. And last question will be for Nancy and Douglas. What do you think is the American factor is really essential for Taiwanese to make the decision of their leadership, such like a visa waiver program or sales, even Douglas commentary on the local media? Do you think it's really important for Taiwanese to make the decision of their leader based on American factor? Thank you. Well, the polls that were published by Zuo Xiaobao, as was mentioned earlier, 10 days before the election seemed to show pretty accurate results and it doesn't appear that there was a big change in that 10 day period. I suggest that outside actors didn't have much effect on the outcome of the vote. Yeah, I would simply add that the United States, I think plays an important role in terms of demonstrating how a democracy works well. And we've long been a model in Taiwan, and therefore I would say this should give us some incentive here to do a better job with bipartisanship, which is what we've just been talking about, so that we can continue to be a model. In any case, I'd like to thank our panelists and ask all of you to do so as well, and Bonnie's gonna talk about lunch in just a moment.


Hi guys, I'm a researcher at UCL and for the past year I've been building this cryptography library and There's going to be a disclaimer for this talk. I'm not going to go deep into the math The ZCAS Foundation have prevented some useful workshops that will do that later on and I only have 20 minutes in the tea Skeptography any more than 20 minutes. So instead what I want to do is I want to leave you with an impression That cryptography can be really useful for smart contracts if Nearly essential as well But first what is cryptography? Well, when I talked to non-experts, they tend to say that Cryptography is about designing ciphers i.e. encryption and the encryption But hopefully it's some people in this room know over the past 30 years and with the rise of the internet Cryptography is so much more.  We're of a group of people run a protocol and I'm not involved They can send me the transcript and I can have faith or actually I can be certain that that protocol was run correctly So as a cryptographer when you look at Ethereum you wonder what does Ethereum offer well another goal of cryptography It's to minimize trust. We want to remove as much trust from this system as we can But in every system there's always a little bit of trust So when we design a system sometimes there's a trust at third party But what's really cool about Ethereum is that a smart contract can be your trust at third party with public state So the as because that's public state and it's a little robot over there it gossips It reveals all our secrets, but it never modifies the protocol and it will always faithfully execute our protocol on our behalf And it's atomic either it runs the function or it won't and using smart contracts. We can build really cool things But first let's consider a really simple example rock paper scissors and let's consider it where we don't use any cryptography So our contract is a matchmaking service if I want to start a game for rock paper scissors I can start a game. Somebody can pay my game on the smart contract and then they can play against me So Alice with the little Mexican hot See starts a game and because we're not using any cryptography She's going to leak rock so she'll reveal rock and say I want to bet five pound or five dollars in my rock paper scissors game Bob can look at the contract and say well Alice just played rock So, you know, I'm just gonna play paper and win the and win five dollars You know the contract of value. It's that it comes back to sell. Well, you won the $10 you won the prize So really we can't actually play rock paper scissors in a public setting like a smart contract without using any Cryptography, so what do we need to actually build this? We need a we need a function where or we need some cryptography where I can hate my choice But then I can later reveal my choice and I cannot change my mind And we can do this using trivial crypto and as most people in this room are probably aware of there's cryptographic has functions So if I want to choose rock, I put it through the house function. I'll get 32 bytes of random data I'll store that in the contract and later on when I reveal rock The contract will hash it again and compare the result with the output of what it hashed So that's really cool. And what I also want to add are two really cool features of smart contracts deposits and refunds So the idea is that when you start a game you send a deposit and Then when you finish the game you get your deposit back and this will provide a financial incentive for people to finish the game So let's go back to our little simple example of rock paper scissors Alice will make a choice So run it through the house function and then she'll send the house of her choice Five dollars on that small little deposit now Bob comes along and Bob can look at the contract You can see that Alice wants to play but now he can't see your choice So there's a bit of risk. It could be rock paper scissors So he'll make a choice He'll send the house of his choice five dollars on a deposit and he'll tell the contract that he wants to play rock Paper scissors with Alice now in the second round of this protocol Everyone must reveal their choice before time t if you don't reveal your choice you forfeit your deposit and Likelihood the counter party party will probably automatically win So next Alice will reveal scissors The contract will evaluate to say that well scissors was her commitment. It matches the hash that she gave me next Bob can see that Alice's choice for scissors. So now he has two decisions a He aborts the protocol because he's lost or to he plays the protocol if he wins or loses Now because he's left the deposit He's going to reveal paper and he's lost the game But he does this because he wants to get his deposit back The contract will evaluate this and say okay. I'm sorry, you know Scissors beats paper Bob gets his deposit back and Alice wins and gets ten dollars Now to the security experts in the room as my little disclaimer You should normally use announce when you do this But I want to avoid these details because I'm not here to you know present exact secure protocols So it's the intuition of why cryptography is useful So what's really cool about the previous example is that that the positive refund scheme Provided this financial incentive for people to participate a more the house function pervades that ability to hide my choice But also commit me to my choice in a public setting What's not really good is that? When Alice sends her harsh, there's no way to verify that was either rock paper or scissors Alice could have sent Spock and then later revealed Spock But in this setting that doesn't really matter because if Alice did choose Spock The contract will say well Spock wasn't a valid choice. So Bob automatically wins But what have we said when we have a protocol or an application where a user can't reveal their choice So all the contract has is encrypted information and the classic example is the voting Where we want to maximize voter privacy. So the idea is that You should be able to see the Patrick has cast his vote But it's encrypted so you should never be able to see what I voted and awesome I may have four encrypted votes and these are in These are stored on the smart contract and now we want to compute the tally We should be able to simply add these votes together And once all the encrypted votes are added together, there'll be some crypto magic and it will automatically perform the decryption So then we get the tally that's one yes vote and three no votes Now in this setting Voters cannot reveal their vote so we can't do that really nice commit and reveal trick that we did with house functions We also need to be confident that every encrypted vote is either yes or no If we don't have that guarantee Then an attacker could create an encrypted vote in such a way where they change somebody else's vote They cancel somebody else's vote or they just vote multiple times Because remember these are encrypted votes and under the hood is all mathematics. They're doing additions subtraction multiple cases and etc etc So One way to get around this is to use a zero knowledge proof And what I can prove to you is that my encrypted vote is either yes or zero And with this proof all and that's the only thing I reveal about this encrypted vote I don't reveal the vote itself. I just reveal that it's well-formed and it satisfies some type of criteria So now we can build a contract Where each voter they'll do an El Gamal encrypted vote and they'll send it to the contract Alongside a one out of two zero knowledge proof that this vote is either yes or no The contract will accept it and store the encrypted vote and every single voter will do this Then at the end of the election we can add the votes together and it will leak the tally now If people want to know more about this type of e-voting smart contract, I'll be given a full talk about it at 10th on Friday morning So that's just a little advertisement for my talk later this week. Let's consider another application Lots of say we want to outsource some type of computation So Alice has his large computations. You can't do yourself and now she finds two different cloud providers But she doesn't necessarily trust them So she makes each cloud do the same exact computation and Then if she's given the same result from both clouds then she has some confidence that the competition was done correctly So what she wants to do is set up a bounty so neither just smart contract out there and if the contract and if the two clouds can prove That they did the same computation and they got the same result the contract will reward the clouds for their work So what we can do now is use a Peterson commitment So this is so this is different than a house function So with a Peterson commitment, we can do some type of computation on it This is known as a common morphic encryption and the idea is that it's computationally binding and it's informant I can't really pronounce it information theoretically hiding But we don't have to worry about those two properties. The idea is that we can do some type of commitment on the final result of the computation So now each cloud will send their commitment to the contract and that will be stored And later on they will reveal and open that commitment to Alice via some private channel Alice can then compare both of the open commitments and she can see She can see that they've both Done the same computation and got the same result and they've both committed to this end result in the contract Now what Alice needs to do is that Alice needs to convince the contract that both of the clouds Did the computation correctly and that they did both indeed commit to the same result And we can do this using an equality zero knowledge proof So the idea is I've given to Peterson commitments. I can prove to you That they both commit to the same message We're very revealing what the message is about So essentially what Alice can do is that so you can say okay. Yes both of the clouds did the work She sends the robot or smart contract this equality proof and Then the contract will get the two commitments. It received from the cloud It'll run it then it will use that as input to the proof And then the contract will be convinced that both of the clouds did the same work and Then it'll reward the cloud for the hard work So that's really cool that we can actually do this now, of course in this application You could argue well both of the clouds can collude and always and not do the computation But then get the money from Alice we're going to ignore that for the security experts But we have done some work in this area. So if we interest it afterwards I can talk about it and offline But essentially what I now want to talk about is local crypto dot sol So these cryptographic primitives are implemented in solidity and they're available for experiments So the first three were used for my voting system the second two were used in that anti collusion smart contracts I just spoke about and there's another one that's under review, but I won't go into that too much at the moment But what would be really cool is that? Ideally what I wanted to do now, and this is my disclaimer. I wanted to have gas costs off before and after the hard fork Because now a theorem supports elliptic earth mathematics natively Unfortunately, I've not managed to get the new upcodes to work So if someone in the room is very familiar with that you can talk to me afterwards and hopefully for Friday I can have updated gas costs and how expensive this is and I'll give you an example So the one out of two zero knowledge proof Before the heart fork would cost two point five million gas Which is really expensive considering a block only contains seven million gas I think it was roughly like three or four dollars or something Where now that the heart forks happened the gas cost should hopefully be in the region of two hundred three hundred thousand gas But I still need to you know get experimental results to say yes, that is actually the real gas cost Now I like the finish talking about other pieces of work So I'm not the only researcher who's been looking at applications of cryptography on the blockchain And I'm going to highlight some papers that I thought were really interesting So one was by Andrew Miller called decentralized poker and the idea is that a group of people can play poker as a smart contract and Everything's done using cryptography So we can ensure that the cards are Shuffled correctly and that I have two private cars and we're actually playing this game in a way where everybody can verify that is correct The second one is by Sarah Michael John who works for me at UCL and they have a scheme was a bit similar the coin join So everyone can deposit coins and the essential smart contract and then using ring signatures They can withdraw their coins back from the contract in such a way where they're hiding in a group So that's to achieve some type of financial privacy and it's actually really cool So I highly recommend reading that one the second ones are the third ones done by Arthur's group at ETH Zurich And the idea is that let's just have a contract is a betting contract And I am betty that Newcastle United is finally going to win the Premier League We still never do but let's just say I go in the BBC website And then the BBC confirms that while Newcastle United actually did win the Premier League I can then prove to the contract that the BBC said that to me and that's really useful For any Oracle type service The third or the fourth one is publicly verifiable seeker sharing So this is the scrape protocol and the idea is that they design this scheme The work towards building a publicly verifiable random beacon and this means that you could have some type of random number on Ethereum every so often and that's really useful for gambling games and everything else We built that in it. Well, I built that in its solidity, but it's only towards that goal and doesn't achieve it yet Of course, there's my anonymous voting protocol and the counter collusion contracts that I spoke about just before So thank you very much for listening to this talk before I finish. I have one takeaway message Cryptography is only one tool in our toolboxes engineers to solve problems And if you think cryptography can solve your problem alone, then there's a really good quote by Roger Needham He was a professor at Cambridge in the 80s 90s and eventually in the early 2000s And he said if you think of target we can solve your problem You either don't understand cryptography or you don't understand your problem. Thank you for listening


Hello, everyone. This is the G-Surf Jenkins docker-based quick start weekly meeting Sorry for missing last week meeting. I think I clicked on the wrong link my bad anyhow Jean-Marc and Ashutosh were there in the meeting. He's got positive on YouTube if I'm not mistaken Jean-Marc will won't be able to join us today though. That's just the free of us last week I gave quite a lot of work to Ashutosh and There was one big part which was about Trying to get the first step for the CI test, you know We chose to start with GitHub actions and we see it was not as simple and easy as I had imagined anyhow We had a few action items still to do We had something to add about the Maven tutorial Because there was a part missing in the documentation explaining what is happening behind the scenes for the second persona We had envisioned but that's not urgent at all. So that is that has been moved to a distant milestone So we're always on week 29 so we'll try to focus on milestone week 29 this week and First thing I'd like to be solved is the reverse proxy issue Because it's not good looking you know when you are starting the tutorial you see there is a reverse proxy issue You're not really confident with the rest of the project I know the project works pretty well, but you know getting the reverse proxy issue is not cool to see We also have something to do about the Python example This week. I hope it's not too complicated and we have the big part about the GitHub actions and experiment now I Gave quite a lot of work. I already said that to Ashdosh last week and He was not able to Go to the end of the tasks and that's perfectly normal. I was maybe too Ambitious about that, you know, I thought it would be kind of easy, but it was not and What worked for me did not work for Ashdosh, you know, I provided an example PR Which kind of worked but I had a very simplified setup and not the four examples the four Quickstart examples, so I didn't think of that and of course it didn't work as expected But I should I will let us know more about that later on So I took all the milestone we had all the issues today and move them translated them to Next week my stone and you know each milestone in now another week I thought I can't remember when you're supposed to get done with G-Sock project. I think it's between the middle middle of August and the end of August Yeah, I don't Know, okay, that's okay. I should I'm the mentor. I'm supposed to know about that, but that's not a problem. We'll do what we can Until you're not available anymore and we'll see you later on what's left to do but Anyhow, we'll have some parts that do work even if we haven't solved all the issues or work items I was in vacation last week they time off So I was not able to work for this project or attend meetings Were you able to go to? Docs office hours previous week all the week before the previous week Yes, I did attend the Previous week before previous week this week it was not held because Mark was on holiday Yeah, okay, cool So I did attend it and we Okay, I don't We talked I don't remember exactly what I talked we talked about because it was two weeks ago Yep, no, that's okay. Thanks for going to this meeting. I know I think that after the meeting I saw a few comments of Mark in your repo Especially for the plugin updates, which we are not focusing on this week So I think you may have talked about plugins or not Anyhow We didn't talk about that Okay, now for the repo A few weeks ago John Mark wanted us to have some kind of can ban Because for the time being we only have milestones which proved quite handy, but you can't reorganize You know the issues or work items they appear the way they appear and some of them may be more Prioritized than others, but we can't see them in them in the milestones view So that's not perfect, but as we already are somehow late Um, I don't think we should focus on creating a can ban, but Whenever you feel like doing so You could create a project on github and create a can ban, but frankly That's not mandatory We could do without until the end of the project just do that if you want to experiment with that But frankly no pressure to have a can ban or something looking like that. Okay Thank you Now for the maven tutorial that you Showed during the demo Um, we still had a question Which was should we get the user to fork in clone all by himself or let's the scripts do it I think even if it hasn't been written yet, we turned down yet I think we agreed that we should have a script that does that kind of thing But that we shouldn't run this script by default, you know People are expected to know how to fork how to clone how to use their local IDE So the script could be helpful maybe later on in the process when we will use um ci on ci jenkins io So there could be some kind of automation in order to get uh the riposte forked in clone locally and some but For time being we should not have it Called directly within the jenkins ini.sh and I think that's okay as you touch it's not being called by default anymore Is it? Yeah, that's cool Okay Now for all the pull requests, I just saw one just before the meeting started. Well done So this one is about github actions and Frankly last week, I wouldn't have been able to review it had you done a draft pull request So that's not a problem, but as I'm back on track. Hopefully Don't hesitate to make all the draft pull requests Even if that's early even if that does not work so if ever I could spot or be gentle or remark something that Does not work for us. Uh, we could let you know Not saying that you're doing some things that don't work, but You know, we are just a little bit more experienced with darker and so on. So maybe you could spot something early on so that you don't go into a dead end Whatever so please yes Commits and push regularly create new branches. Let us know create draft pull requests Even if you don't ping us because you think it's not ready to review and you don't want to Us to spend some time something that is unfinished But that's just so that we can spot if ever there is something we could help with Okay So of course, I haven't been able to review Your pull request, but we'll do so later on. I think you still Experience some issues with the whole process. It doesn't work as expected yet. Am I right? Yes, I Right now it's working fine, but I have a doubt in the Running a building a job from the part on the with the call command I don't understand that part completely from FPR others. I have Right now the GitHub action works for Whenever the changes have been made to the particular directory, for example, if it's Changes are made to the second example. It will only run the second examples And the GitHub actions and not others But the default one will always run the Example on the root directory that will run regardless of Whatever is changed Okay So I will have a look at that Frankly to get it working on my draft PR. I spent a lot of time Because I had trouble Parsing, you know the Jason result, for example, with jq, you know, sometimes I had some trouble with the jobs that had never run I also had no as I think you had Um, no, it's not that easy. It's not Yeah, it's not easy. Definitely. So there are maybe some things to tweak to get it running in each and every case I have a look at that and Let you know on the on the review If ever you need to do some pair programming this week, uh, don't hesitate to ask for Half an hour or an hour We could progress together Just in case so that you don't get stuck Cool There were other pull requests, but they were just proof of concepts for next milestones Uh, or even for this one. So you already had spotted the adding github actions for Jenkins validation For next milestone, there is also the push the images to the hub because Damian DuPoteau and mark weight told us it's nice to build on the spot Um, it could be helpful for the ci once more once we migrate to ci Jenkins IO But for the end user, I think I put a lot of details in this pr But for most of the users, uh, we could face some issues For example, they could try to build that on the platform We haven't tested and that does not work Which is not cool, uh to discover when it's already too late because Imagine it's not a powerful machine. It takes half an hour to build and in the end. Boom. It does not start So yeah, we'd like to avoid that And I tried to build on lots of different architectures in this pr. I tried on s 390x I highly doubt any First time Jenkins user is using such a platform, but anyhow, I think it was working ppc 64 le I got some trouble when building And I think I also had some problem with arm v7. So anyhow, I just chose to add arm 64 and amd 64 which means any pc um, I guess Any recent pc So we'll just focus on these ones, but it's for our next milestone Then we also have the get rid of the mandatory bash file because for the time being we have the Jenkins in it and the Jenkins tear down bash files Which work very well But don't work for people using windows without wsl. Yes So it's it's a draft pr that works for me. It may not work for you. I think there is a lot of work ahead But yes, that's just a proof of concept. Uh, so we get rid of the bash files So that everyone can get it to work Whatever the platform may be as long as they have docker desktop or docker common line Docker client and docker server available for that platform Uh, then we have another tutorial Which is pretty straightforward and we have a python tutorial, which is for this milestone this week. Hopefully Then uh, yes, go ahead Ashutosh No, I I didn't want to say anything particular. I was just agreeing Cool, thank you because I know I talk way too much As for the work items, we still have 17 to this day and I think I will find some other ones this week um But for this milestone so this week I'd like that we focus on the githubot weaver sproxy setup is broken and it's not only github I saw comment from mark or joe mark. Yeah, which who was saying that it's not working with During the previous and of doc's office hours and mark setup. It was not it was also showing this statement Fever sproxy is broken So, um Please while we review your pr from today Have a look at that if you can and try to find why it's not working anymore I think it has worked in the past, right? It used to work No, did I daydream? Whenever the local local server has not used it doesn't work So it only works when local who state it is used and mark was not using that uh-huh That's okay, and the githubot also still the same Got it Hopefully you sorted it out pretty easily. We'll see Then we have build a python app with pie installer um We'll see but I think this one is you could do it by the end of the week Except if there are some things I haven't spotted it yet, but I think it should work pretty easily Okay, and the next one is about the ssh key generation, but I don't remember Were you able to reproduce the issue or not? This one is solved. Uh, I did Post the message to john mark, but I think you didn't sort but there's this one is solved This is not happening anymore That's cool cool Good news Um And then about the plugins. I think we had the discussion through one GitHub issue about that and we agreed That we should keep the plugin updated. Thanks to a script Which would give the whole list of the plugins not only the one we need But the one which are installed by default when you are creating a new genkids instance It could be kind of overwhelming for end users to see these big lists of plugins, but that's the best way to have um Different lists of plugins that work all together, you know Not just a subset that you know work together, but you don't know about the other ones And whenever you start or you restart a genkids and instance and you didn't take care of the embedded plugins then there is some Um Information you don't want the end user to see, you know, he starts his genkins instance and The ui is already complaining about plugins being outdated It's kind of disturbing for the end users. So that's why we showed the solution but once more it's not something we'll address uh during this milestone it would be for next next one or maybe the A few weeks from now, whatever. Oh, 31. So two weeks from now whoo, uh We covered everything I had in mind, but Please, uh, let us know baby into our as you touch what you were thinking about Is it if there anything you would like to talk about are you struggling with something we should know? off In the GitHub action file. I do want to see in the build building the job section I don't understand that part from your PR company. Okay Come on. Um Okay, uh, sorry. I don't master google docs So ouch So with the job creation, that's right Yes Yeah With the judge creation in the github action Okay, um You don't understand the Workflow the way it works or you don't understand why it doesn't work I don't understand the workflow right now Okay, uh If there anything we could yeah, go ahead if you, uh, uh Have any documentation where I can find, uh, how this works That would be helpful So how the job creation works, uh, when using the rest api yes I I didn't search it myself because I just I wasn't just trying that That's what's easy to find Okay, um Okay, uh, of course I had found a few pointers here and there about job creation with Jenkins rest api. So I'll try to give you the links but frankly, uh The documentation Is not really complete and, uh, you know, it's not state of the art documentation. I think I found um A few hints here And a little bit of documentation there and I had to connect dots By myself And I even think that's uh, some of the commands I used Where by experimenting uh failing and trying something else. So some things are not part Of the documentation I found they may exist somewhere I don't know where so yeah I totally get it that you don't really understand how it's working um If I remember what I remember is that you have to authenticate to begin with Sorry So as we have only one user for example, which happens to be admin With a very weak password um, I first Kind of login, you know with just a user password in the url Then it gives me I think a crumb, you know, uh, it's to protect cr sf Then I get with this crumb uh cookie File, so I've got uh user password crumb Cookie file and then with that I managed to get uh an authentication token So all the first steps are just to create an authentication token And once I have this authentication token I have to Make a post HTTP post request to start a job That's what I think I remember and the problem is Your your jobs Which could have been mine Use some spaces in the names Complicated so we have to double escape them In order to get them started I I spent quite some time before understanding that because the jobs could not be found I was wondering why anyhow, so once you start that it then gives you Uh, I think it's a jason answer But the very first time as we have never ever started a job There is lots of values which are no or empty. So we have to make a loop and wait Until we get something that we can use and then gq a jq sorry Tries to grab the number of the build then if it's something it can understand then we say that the job Is doing well and then in the end Um, we are waiting until the job is marked as completed and successful But just out of the top of my mind, I could have said Bullshit, uh, I don't know. Uh, I'll try to find the documentation and give you some links That should be explained way better than what I just did The the point I don't understand is uh, I don't understand which command is Clicking the build now button In the process. Oh Would you like to share your screen and show us your code or Yeah, yes. Yes. Cool. Thank you Beaviento if you know about that, please Help us Okay Any Can see I can see your screen. Yeah You can see vs code or the browser A code code Okay, this I don't understand Where is it launching the job part this part, okay Uh, it's doing nothing because just eco commands. Oh Yes, the job naming code is that's what I told you it's double html escaped Um, I don't understand which command is building the job. Yeah, it's not these ones For the timing it's later on Where is the call command? It's missing a cold. Oh, no, it's there. Okay. If the call minus s minus k admin token This one Yeah Okay, I didn't Okay, I look into it in the documentation and try to understand it I was not getting which way from the Build is taking place That's why I was getting confused Okay, I 92 Okay, I'll remember it Good luck Okay Thank you. You're welcome um Anything else you'd like to talk about before you wrap it up No, I just want to apologize for slow progress and that I'll Work extra hard this week to cover up everything No, that's okay.  I guess you're in a dorm or something. You have your room and have you already started your first How that they went to help me, uh, you know, you're Sitting and listening to the Teacher so your first glasses Oh, this course is whatever. I'm sorry Yes, okay, so You already have Okay, you already had told us that we should not expect As much work from you as the previous weeks because you are back to school So that's okay.  I thought it was easy. I was wrong. So that's my fault So you don't have to apologize for that I was it was way too ambitious and You know in the previous week, we had lots of back and forth. We were changing on the ghoul dogs or element metrics, whatever and last week. I wasn't there to Help So that explains also why you were late. That's okay Uh, it was expected and all is fine I told you in the beginning of the meeting that we shifted everything one week That's fine So please for this week, uh, focus on small items while they're into i and maybe john mark review your Uh, github actions pr so python and About yeah, it was proxy And if we finish that by the end of the week, I'll be happy And maybe we even We will even be able to merge your public rest about github actions. You never know That could happen. That would be cool Yes Bevan too anything to add Cool Um as I said before a stash if ever you want to do some pair programming To have another pair of eyes even if they are old and tired Don't hesitate. We'll see if we can find a time slot together and yes, please commit regularly push regularly and Being us when you think it's almost ready or if you are stuck You never know we could maybe help Okay Cool, uh, best of luck for your new year at school And see you later on this week Thanks a lot for your work Thank you. Bye folks