Good evening. We're going to get started. Today is October 17th, 2022, and welcome to the Burlington City Council meeting. Thank you for joining us in person in contoys and online for our meeting. The time is 6.50. Before we get started with the council meeting and motion to adopt the agenda, just wanted to mention for the public and particularly for the parents of Champlain School, Champlain Elementary School students that we just came back from a field trip where we saw the nature-based climate solutions that they've been working on and saw lots of tree planting and stormwater and flood resilience and mitigation and some local ecologically sound food production that they are working on. And we got a lot of treats from them, including these right here, which are homemade apple crisps from Champlain Elementary. It was a wonderful opportunity for us to see what's going on on on this front, not not just because we're of course concerned about emissions, but we're also concerned the other side of the equation in our climate emergency, which is investing in projects that are high on impact and low on cost. And that's what we saw today. So thanks so much to Zoe Richards, who's the chair of the Burlington Conservation Board, Parks and Rec Department. We had Dan Cahill, Patrick Duncey, Rebecca Roman, Dan Rogers, a number of community partners, and again the students at Champlain's, the fifth grade class, one of the fifth grade classes at Champlain Elementary and their amazing teacher, Aziza Malik. With that, we'll call to order the council meeting and a motion to adopt the agenda. How do you feel about reading that? Okay, Councilor Hightower. Move to amend and adopt the agenda as follows. As to the consent agenda, item 6.31, communication from Robert Bristow-Johnson regarding Burlington Eight Wards, version 16, PDF. Add to the consent agenda, item 6.32, communication from Shannad Murray, Ward 8, Inspector of Elections regarding resignation. Add to consent agenda, item 6.33, communication Daniel Gaviria regarding trash and syringes in Callen Park. And I apologize for all of those mispronunciations. Thank you, Councilor Hightower. There's a motion to approve with amendments our agenda. Is there a second to that motion? I have a question regarding the deliberative item 7.04, the parking minimums. Are we going to move that? When we get to 7.04, Councilor Bergman, there will be a motion to postpone to a date certain. Thank you. Sure. So there is a motion. Is there a second to the motion seconded by Councilor McGee? Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, please say no. We have an agenda. And just wanted to also clarify that Councilor Freeman is joining us via Zoom. The next item on our agenda is item number two, which is a redistricting update and presentation. For this update, I'll turn to Councilor Barlow who together with Councilor Hightower McGee and Traverse have been working as a small group to forge a consensus on this wonderful topic of redistricting. Councilor Barlow. Thank you, President Paul. The redistricting group met on September 21st and then again on October 3rd. And the trajectory of our discussions over those two meetings has been in the direction of an eight ward map as it can best achieve some of the objectives identified by the ad hoc committee and some of the public process that's gone on around redistricting, including keeping the new north end and old north end separate. It also allows for the creation of a downtown ward, having multiple representatives for each resident and can allow student populations to be better distributed across multiple wards. At the most recent meeting, we discussed four eight ward options that Planning had created for us to review. And the two I think that are in our packet and are going to be shown tonight are the ones that the small group had the most consensus around. I'll also note that one of the maps in that group has a variation that would, I think it's option three version two that would have allowed EMS also to stay within Ward six as a polling location. And lastly, I'll add another benefit of the eight ward. So configurations are that they allow for either a 12 or a 16 councilor solution. So with that, I guess I would turn to Nancy Stetson for presentation. Good evening, Nancy. Thanks for being here. Hi, sorry, I probably should have already gotten set up one second. Okay. Oh, as Councillor Barlow said, I'm here to present on these options. I did have a short presentation. Councillor Barlow covered a lot of what I was going to go through. So I'll try to make it quick. I'm hoping that with this meeting, I can answer any questions I can answer here and then also collect questions to bring back answers next week, I think was the plan. So first off, I just want to talk through what the working group did. If you want more information, you can go to the redistricting site on the Burlington website. There were two meetings. The first meeting was a general overview of the combinations of wards and councillors, the sort of pros and cons of each of those options, and going over what priorities had come up over the past year of working on this problem. And then on October 3rd, we looked through the four eight ward options. So this is a slide from the first meeting, just laying out the different options that had been discussed at City Council up until that point. And then I put together this matrix. The colors don't show great on that screen. The idea is to put all of the different combinations of councillors and wards in one place and compare them to the various priorities that have been put forth. One thing I would note is that the priorities aren't sorted and they're not necessarily of equal weight either. So it's up to the public and councillors to decide which priorities are most important to them. And the colors are also not set in stone. You might have a slightly different feeling about how the war or how the maps should fit. But this was just a way to talk through the different options that had been discussed. And as Councillor Barlow said, the councillors in the working group decided that an eight ward map was the most feasible. So for the next meeting, I brought in four different options for an eight ward map as I was working through them. It became clear that there weren't as many variations that seemed reasonable. So these maps are actually all fairly similar. For example, the New North End doesn't change at all in any of them. The boundaries are quite close to what they currently are. And it's right along North Ave. So they felt pretty set. And then for each of the options, I shifted students from the athletic campus from Ward 6 into Ward 1 and that changed the boundaries of the other wards. So the four options we looked at are here. And from Ward 1, there's no athletic campus students or an option one. There's no athletic campus students in Ward 1. And then option four, the entire athletic campus is in Ward 1. So they sort of shift over. And from these four, the two middle options were sort of decided on as the most feasible. These next two slides just show what the full map would look like with the population for option 2 and option 3. As Councillor Barlow said, there isn't a slightly different version of option 3 where you can grab admins from Ward 8 and keep it in Ward 6 if that's something that's important. And then the last thing I wanted to talk about was just how the students were divided between the wards. So you can see option 3 makes both Ward 6 and Ward 1 about half on campus students. Again, it doesn't account for off-campus students, which we don't have very precise data on. So that is the whole presentation of what the working group did. And so now we're at this point where these are the two options. I would welcome any questions, but also suggestions for variations you'd like to see too. I'm sure you've seen other possible award maps. And so I'm curious what you'd like to be different about these. Are there councillors, Councillor Hightower? I have to admit I'm part of the group and I said some things during the meeting that I was apparently very wrong about about how my constituents would feel. They are extremely unhappy with the proposed eight award maps. They feel they really wanted the seven award map and want us to go back to considering that. They feel strongly that they feel like everybody's getting what they want in terms of New North End being separate from the Old North End. And folks still getting the voting place that they want and Ward 8 being reconfigured and Ward 1 is the one who's losing on all of those fronts. So they felt very strongly that the historical character of the Old East End is east of Willard and north of Main Street and to the extent possible that that be maintained. So I got a lot of feedback at the NPA, but folks did not love any of the maps. Thanks, Councillor Hightower. As Nancy has said this is really what we hope will be the second to last opportunity. We will have a work session on this at the next meeting. If there are concerns or if there are other maps that need to be brought forward now would be the time to try to address those so that there's time to get that together for the work session. Councillor Shannon. I just had a question about what Councillor Hightower just said. Looking at the WG option 2. It looked to me like that. I may not have the streets right, but it looked to me like that was north of Main Street and east of Willard. Is it not? If that's the criteria. Sorry. So it is to some extent, but so for folks who are unfamiliar with Ward 1 that northwest section is our largest I guess single family home block. So that's Henry. So it's kind of going to prospect then cutting across another. So it's cutting the northwest quadrant. Willard goes all the way to where the blue and green meat if you're looking at solely option 2. So option 3 then is just on prospect if that helps for reference. Okay. So the concern is that section that's gone from Ward 1 into Ward 2. That's the concern for your constituents. Yes. And I and again that's I think there's been two concerns. One of them I brought up in terms of voting turnout is again because it's that that is the single family block. That is also the most vocal kind of constituency base that Ward 1 has. And so that specifically would be getting lost and that's the highest voter turnout area of the section city. You okay? Thanks. Other Councilor Berkman. So I'm sad about that even though Ward 2 would go up. It makes it more difficult. So I guess in terms of help perhaps there is an 8 word variation that could look at a map that would divide around North Street and maybe it would even take both sides of North Street to keep it in Ward 1. And then I don't know where the you know the balloon needs to then move somewhere else. So I'm not sure exactly where that that moves. Historically Ward 2 had gone all the way to Main Street. So you know so you got Bewell and Hungerford and College. So that's not out of the question in terms of where that balloon goes. And I'm in favor of 10 percent. I would be in deviation. I'd be in favor of 10.1. I think that you know given the nature of this we bring it to a judge you know and we talk about the the one person one vote. I think we win. That's just my you know my my opinion based on looking at case law over a long time but I'm not your attorney. So that you know something that would not move so much but might be able to accommodate some of this balloon making that bubble that you're create with a balloon just a little bit smaller but if you know what I mean on that. I think so. I like the balloon analogy. I will just say option 3 is at 10.0 percent. Right. We're really right on the line. I mean I think that the there's no magical formula and I heard what the opinion was and I think you know I can I read it as us having a little bit more flexibility than it being an ironclad line and I think we can based on the conversation and based on the needs of the people which is not about a discriminatory action very valid in terms of keeping the integrity of neighborhoods and being clear about historic lines and all the other criteria there. I think that we can do that. I am not advocating you go up to 13 or 14. Although I've seen cases that have actually upheld that and the state has had deviations which are significantly higher than 10 percent. So I caution us about being about hamstringing ourselves unnecessarily but that being said if there's a way to to get it really close that would be I think great and that's my suggestion in terms of map mapping for trying to to move these lines because I like the eight myself. I think it is the absolute best way that we can do the work that we need to do for the people of Burlington. Thank you. Thanks Councillor Bergman. Councillor Barlow. Thank you President Paul. During the working group second working group session we we talked about you know what's possible within the overall planned deviation of 10 percent and one of the challenges with an eight word map is that ward one is a seventh of the city so something has to come from ward one and go somewhere and we talked about that specific neighborhood that Councillor Hightower talked about being undispleased with these maps about and we talked about trying to keep them intact and not carve that neighborhood though that particular north part of is it the north is the west part essentially of ward one we're trying to keep trying to keep that intact so I don't know if we can I mean I would like to hear more about our ability to you know move the balloon around in a way so that we could keep that intact and stay within you know some reasonable overall planned deviation I'm happy to go back and and see like what is possible in a word map I do think if you're committed to keeping that neighborhood part of ward one then ward one likely won't take any of the athletic campus students which I know we had talked about you know where they end up is then ward six and then ward six has a lot of students so I think that's the main trade off that's happening I don't think I would have to go back and look through all the maps to see if I've made a map like that but I think that that's the main challenge you'd be dealing with thanks Councillor Barlow are there others who have comments about this Councillor Travers um well to me I think Nancy sort of identified one of the issues there which is you know what do we do with the athletic campus what do we do with the other dorms it seems like very early on in this process we identified a desire to basically um more fairly and more equitably divide the student population between wards and for us to do away with the so-called student ward which is the salamander ward eight as it's called a certain reality to that though is that if we are to do away with ward eight as it exists today um the the student dorms which make up I mean correct me if I'm wrong by far and away the largest census blocks that we have and I appreciate that you've made some effort here to divide the census blocks into um the different campuses on UVM but a certain reality here is that if we are doing away with a student ward then the dormitories are going to have to go into um one ward or the other and I have strong concerns that if we simply move all of the dorms into ward six or on the other side of things that we were to move all of the dorms into ward one um that we're just creating the same problem that we were looking to do away with in the beginning of this in uh in eliminating the the the so-called student ward um that is ward eight um so I don't know what the answer to that is necessarily but I do think and I do appreciate that and the options that you have there that um when we look at geographically where the dorms are uh if we are looking to get rid of ward eight as it exists now some of those dorms are going to have to be in ward one and some of those dorms are going to have to be in ward six and the reality of that is that both of those wards are not going to be able to maintain the same historical boundaries that they've had so if folks' interests are more so in maintaining historical boundaries of the wards then I think a certain reality of that is that we're back to considering maintaining a student ward so to speak and and what are the boundaries of that I don't have the answer to that but but if counselors are going to prioritize maintaining historical boundaries then and I do think that that's a reality of all this which is that one of our eight wards is going to have to maintain a student population similar to ward eight is right now um and from the very beginning we were saying that's not something we wanted to do uh so I I know this isn't our work session necessarily but uh but I do want to posit that for folks to think about and Nancy I don't know if you have any thoughts on that but or if you could speak to sort of how large these student census blocks are and the complications that it's presented for you as you've been drawing these different versions of the eight ward map I mean sure what what I can say is that the entire student population in that southern um sort of south of main street campus redstone and athletic is like 4,400 students um and we're looking at a total population of 5,500 so I mean so like yes we could put them all in a ward together it would be a student ward very similar to ward eight I think um so I think what you laid out there is correct um and we um figuring out how to split them is is the main challenge you all set okay counselor hi tower yeah and sorry to speak again I just know that this is drastically different from what we've um talked about in the past given the feedback that I was given I do think that there is a version just because the the the versions that we're looking at give so little of the student population to ward eight and that's not a huge concern of ward one we actually didn't talk about it that much I think they're really more they're more concerned about the historic boundaries um but I think that there's a version where ward eight still takes some of those some of the athletic block without being just I think before it took all of it which was like but in the versions that we're looking at like some of the options have ward eight taking five or sixteen percent I think there's a version where it takes more of that where it does get get a little skinnier but it's still downtown to student where it's maybe a little bit more balanced because I know ward six doesn't want to be the new 70 78 percent on campus student wards and again I think that this is just ward one looking at this and I we knew that on that eight ward map we'd have to be carved out but I think um or we'd have to lose something but I think especially gaining a thousand people across in what historically isn't part of it um to lose a whole another thousand people I think was a pretty hard hit for folks to see um and I think the one other thing that I want to mention just because this was also part of the discussion is um my word specifically has for a really long time been looking to have UVM be a better neighbor and I know that's part of the discussion and one of the things that was asked was if we're getting more of the on-campus students and losing some more of the historic the least we want the council to do is to really think about how to make UVM be a better neighbor so I'm just saying that some of the other counselors can can hear that thanks counselor hi tower there are other counselor carpenter hi um this is just more global but um we've talked so much about historic neighborhoods which I support but we just have to keep reminding ourselves that those are going to change some and what really changed ward one was the addition of all those new apartments um ward four may change with when cambrian rise is fully built out the downtown ward will change when city center gets built out and so I just reminding our constituents that we talked about the redistricting balloon but the growth balloon is unpredictable so and I think you know we just we're not always going to be able to keep the districts the way they were I mean I've lived through several redistrictings and they're painful but reminding our constituents that that they change I am not in particular opposed to the seven ward map at all um and so I could reconsider it but I in terms of process of and all the good work everyone's done there seems to be more consensus around that eight ward map I'm not supportive of the sixteen counselors but I know there's a lot of work good work that got us to where that we are today thank you counselor carpenter counselor shannon thank you um um so it did I did misunderstand the map and counselors counselor high towers clarification of that is helping me understand what the what the issue is in in ward one and I think that um it's it's a fair criticism I I don't think that as we go through redistricting everybody can expect to be in the same ward and they get attached to the number of their ward and I don't think that that's what's really important when we you know take a step back and look more globally at our redistricting maps but I do think that that um what Nancy just said about you know the number of students versus the size of the entire ward and particularly the the dorms are very low voter turnout they've um you know they've just arrived on campus they're also not really able to run for office because they're they're not going to be staying where they are very long um it becomes difficult to fill the positions as you know it has been addressed with us several times and so I think that one of the advantages we might get out of going to the seven ward map is that the wards become larger than and it's easier to absorb these large numbers of students while still having enough um of a stable population that you can fill all of the positions and have a reasonable voter turnout because I also don't think that it's um it's fair to people when one ward elects the same number of counselors with 300 votes as another ward can with 1500 votes you know there's a disparity there um I wonder when these maps are created is was there I don't see what the population per ward is here but it makes sense for those student wards to be on the larger side compared with oh there you have it okay so I would think that there would be an advantage to having you know one in six be on the larger side of the wards because they are trying to absorb this on-campus student population um and so and that's not completely the case there but that's my suggestion um I think looking at the seven ward map again is reasonable and I think as you're drawing the lines to make wards one and six the larger wards also make sense um I would if I could just speak to that last point briefly um I the one thing I would like to point out um is that the it's difficult to precisely move people because they are moving in blocks and so you can see the largest ward and the smallest ward are the difference is only about 600 people and there's plenty of blocks that are that large um so making um you know we could put a few you know another 100 or 200 people in ward six to make it a slightly larger ward but it's hard to find exactly that block that will that will fill that in um this is just another challenge thank you uh counselor McGee thank you thanks Nancy for um so many different iterations of uh these eight ward maps um I really appreciate what's gotten us to this point and the effort that's gone into um trying to address all of the concerns that people have with uh any number of these maps um and I certainly hear the concerns that counselor high towers constituents have shared about um no longer being part of ward one and I think I'll take some credit or blame for getting us to this eight ward conversation because many of my constituents reach out to me being concerned that they would no longer be part of the old north end by being grouped into either ward four or ward seven so I just want to remind everyone that that's uh if we make this effort to address the concerns of one neighborhood I will have constituents of my own that will reach out about that so that's all I have for right now thank you thanks counselor McGee are there other counselors we remember we will also have a a work session next week um a counselor Jang did you want to speak yes very quickly thank you president I was just wondering if the redistrict mobility are also working on engaging the community I'm sorry what community engagement plan about this can they talk about that were you asking that of the working group yes okay um do you want to speak to that counselor barlow um we have we have had um warned meetings and so the public's been invited to give comment and participate in our meetings but beyond that we don't have um public engagement plan much of the public engagement was done before we got to the stage of the working group thank you I think the other part of that also was the ad hoc group did have several public meetings they did send out a survey um they had an online survey and I think that was part of their their charge as well um please go ahead counselor Jang yeah I mean I think the concern here is every single time it changes and it changes it is changing because counselor Hightower brought it to her constituents there are many other concern who do not even have any idea this is taking place and from my perspective it should be the working group should look into that as well thank you thank you thanks counselor Jang uh any others um so it looks like perhaps we will I don't know counselor Hightower was there anything on on a possible seven word map that you wanted Nancy to look into between now and next week um I mean I think oh my gosh I do I guess wondering if a seven word map is still on the table I think more so than looking at iterations and I think looking at an eight word map that maybe tries to put part of athletic campus into ward eight um so that ward one can retain as much of it since 1960 something historical boundaries as possible um to go to Willard I can I can do that okay I really try it I can't I can't promise thank you uh anything else that at counselor Barlow I guess I had a clarifying question about a seven word map would it be the sort of asymmetric seven word map or a seven by 14 that would be a more symmetrical map that um you're interested in counselor Hightower yeah my constituents were interested in the regular the regular the symmetrical the seven ward two counselor map thank you thank you uh well I hope this was productive for you and uh getting ready for next week's meeting be as I said the goal will be to try through a work session to come to a consensus on redistricting giving the timelines for it to go to charter change and then come back and be on the ballot for town meeting day we're we're getting close to when we really need to make a decision um and uh just want to thank the members of the working group um and thank you Nancy so much for all that you've done um we're all we'll make every effort at our next meeting to to get to and to get to the end game if we can um with that we will uh it's now about 725 um we can close this item and go on to item 3.01 which is the public forum we'll start a couple of minutes early we do not um actually we do have someone who just signed up for the public forum online um before we begin public forum just a few pieces of information um the table in front of us has three has green has three lights uh the green light will shine when you begin speaking the second which is a yellow light when you have 30 seconds left and the last is a red light when we ask that you wrap up your comments if you're in the middle of a sentence of course complete it um but then uh please um close your remarks so that we give everyone the same amount of time there's a hybrid system for public forum if you wish to speak you can go to burlington if you're online if you're on zoom you can go to burlingtonvt.gov uh slash public forum fill out a form that will populate and the form the the pop the the the blanks when you fill in those blanks those blanks will come into a spreadsheet that I can see um we'll we'll the the order or the priority for those speaking in public forum is that burlington residents have first priority we'll go to the burlington residents that are here in contois and then to the burlington residents that are online and then we will go to non-burlington residents back in contois and then close with non-burlington residents that are online um during public forum the only request that we make is that you use um respectful language please direct your comments to me as the chair and not to anyone else at this table and please do not personalize your comments um we really want to hear what you have to say and it's a lot easier to listen when you use um respectful language with that we'll go to public forum uh there are two people in contois who are burlington residents who would like to speak the first is robber pristo johnson and the second is lee more morrigan hi robert welcome so uh this is about the topic that we just uh finished talking about i'm going to push a little bit in the other direction so um there is a map and it's an item 631 uh it's an eight ward map any eight ward map can keep the new north end in the the new north end wards in the new north end that's because 24 percent of the city lives north of the yankee medical building all right but you can do more with an eight ward map if we don't waste it and you can actually have an eight ward map that keeps the new north end wards of the new north end and keeps the old north end wards in the old north end you can have an eight ward map that has a nice clean line down the entirety of pearl street but the price you the problem is that none of these maps are easy and we're figuring that out the price that you have to pay for you could also keep that neighborhood in ward 1 together but the price you pay is you have to move that entire neighborhood into ward 2 but this map solves lots of problems it solves the uh the equal division of the student population between wards 1 and 6 it keeps the old north end wards in the old north end it has a downtown ward with an identifiable identity i guess um it puts a lot of students in that downtown ward it puts the entirety of the champlain college into the ward 8 the downtown ward it puts the buell bradley neighborhood into the downtown ward it puts that williams and willard little block that's solid students of course into the downtown ward it also keeps the entire king maple neighborhood together puts it into the downtown ward including bob and mill it doesn't put a line down maple street it does have a line on maple street but not there anyway everything between maple and pearl is down thank you robert in that ward thank you so much uh our next speaker is lee morrigan to be followed by eric ferrell hi good evening hey can you hear me yes we can hi my name is lee morrigan i'm a resident of ward 7 as most of you know there have been multiple recent events of transphobia in burlington and in other vermont cities and towns i have been trans non-binary my entire life growing up trans is difficult even with tremendous support without support and acceptance it can be downright dangerous as was my experience i moved to burlington solely because of how i felt visiting for the first time from out of town for a job interview coming from a very conservative area i made my decision to move to burlington between the time it took to walk from the parking garage to my interview i will always love burlington for giving me back a part of myself i lost a long time ago for the record i could first put in put into words my feelings about my gender when i was five years old 32 years later those feelings have not changed at all here's what i'm asking from you tonight i'm asking the council along with mayor weinberger to recognize at the city level the national transgender day of visibility on march 31st i'm asking you to reach out to your constituents with your solidarity and provide contact information for trans support organizations i'm asking that when transphobia arises address it i do just want to quickly recognize um councilor carpenter who did just that i think was back in the summertime um those transphobic stickers popped back up in the new north end um and by various outlets uh councilor carpenter addressed that made it very clear that that is not um who the new north end is and it's not who she is and offered support to trans people who needed to reach out and also kind of started citizens organizing to safely remove um the stickers and that made us feel safe and heard and that matters thanks thank you so much our next speaker is eric ferrell to be followed by uh nick cavanaugh hi eric good evening how are you all i'll be very brief i apologize i'm here to talk about parking maximums and i'm an advocate obviously for cambrian rise i live in the new north end on apple tree point lane and i apologize for being very late to this game because this conversation has been going on for quite a while um cambrian rise is in a multimodal district i think that that's an incorrect designation for our particular project given the dynamics out there it's not the same as downtown and i do strongly support uh encouraging people to park uh people to use alternative forms of transportation we do have car share and we're we have a tdm plan and and we're uh we invest very heavily in bike supporting bike and bike path connections um but the reality is people who don't drive their cars still own them and when they're not driving them they gotta park them somewhere and so i would like an opportunity to talk about this further about us maybe being in the shared use district and why we think that we're uh ought to be treated differently than in a in a designated downtown where there's significant amount of public uh you know parking available we are making an effort we build like 73 percent of our parking in structured spaces so that ultimately if we can reclaim our surface spaces not only do we reduce our overall lot coverage um but um i i think in the in the long run this is a generational change getting people to to get out of their cars uh it's something totally different to get to get them to give them up um and we're now we've built a lot of apartments small units now we're moving towards larger units and home ownership and that's going to put even more pressure on on the fact that people um are going to own cars and need to park them thank you right on time thank you Eric our next speaker is nick Kavanaugh good evening thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak i'm going to speak about the rail yard enterprise project so my name is nick and i'm a co-owner of rail yard apothecary we're a worker owned co-op it's located in the part of the building that would be removed for the rail yard enterprise project our business started in 2016 we have five worker owners in addition to three part-time staff we are a hub for our local herbalism community we sell retail herbs offer herbal consultations and teach classes about herbalism we carry almost 200 medicinal herbs such as chamomile lavender and peppermint we source many of our herbs from vermont growers including two in burlington and eight others our four clinical office rooms serve as a space for herbal consultations we also provide space to five other practitioners serving our community including a naturopathic doctor acupuncturists nutritionists and two massage therapists our 3,600 square feet includes a 750 square foot studio space that we use for herbal education we also share that space with three yoga teachers including an aerial yoga teacher an aerial yoga teacher who utilizes our unusual extra tall ceilings our business is multifaceted and it would be very difficult to relocate for at least a couple years we've heard about the rail yard enterprise project and have seen images of plans showing the new road going directly in front of the building i was interviewed on the local news on the local news saying i supported the project because it would bring visibility to our out-of-the-way location in early september public plans were presented showing a brand new set of options all of which involve removing our part of the building along with cricket radio next door no one from the city reached out to us about this i happened to talk to someone passing by doing a walking tour of the project my strong preference would be to keep the original plan the building is spared and we get a road passing by i also strongly feel that any road should be built to divert traffic from the king street neighborhood so it's not possible if it's not possible for a building to be spared our business needs compensation it's unlikely for us to find another location is unique as ours where we can continue doing everything we do so please consider our needs in your decisions on this issue great thank you very much we have we have no one who else who has signed up to speak in con toys however we do have three people that are online i'm just waiting for hosting responsibility so that i can enable microphones just hold on for just a moment while that's going on the three people that are uh that are in the queue to speak online our first barber hedrick to be followed by Sharon busher looks like and it looks like now i can do that so uh with that um call on barber hedrick um i've enabled your microphone barber so you should be able to speak good evening counselors prior to 2013 the athletic campus census block was part of ward one for more than 50 years only beginning in 2013 with the creation of the salamander ward did ward one not include the athletic campus dorms reverting to maps that includes some of the athletic campus in ward eight is very problematic because the main street and maple street quarter is extremely dense with off-campus students so when you combine the on-campus students from some of the dorms on the athletic campus plus those who live off-campus along main and maple it ends up creating a ward where the long-term residents are the minority instead i'd like to suggest please that nancy and the other people in the working group create suggest having a cohesive new ward of the new of the north hill section neighborhood bounded by mansfield union main in archibald the independent mapping groups eight ward option f2 map does this and accomplishes most of your listed goals it also allows there to be a downtown ward that doesn't reach too far into the old north end or too far up the hill and it keeps edmunds in ward six it balances the on-campus students it preserves neighborhoods thank you for again take a look at the independent mapping groups eight ward option f2 map and see if that meets what you want to do thank you thank you very much our next speaker that is online is Sharon busher Sharon i've enabled your microphone so you should be able to speak now okay thank you very much first of all i wanted to thank um counselor high tower for voicing the concerns that were raised during the neighborhood planning assembly i think that got what got lost in the discussion when the council started talking about what she said was that uh yes it's a change in boundary but that is the core part of ward one that has single family homes that has stability that has voter engagement and that's a huge loss toward one if indeed to a to our section of the city if that group goes someplace else i appreciate the fact that they would move as a block i get that and i i can't speak for them but i think that matters um but the other factor that keeps getting circumvented is that in the in the only report that i ever received when i was on the city council and it was right before i left the city council it stated that most off campus students live in ward one there had been a big shift and that is where most live and i can attest i i don't that when i campaigned in 2020 there was a revolving door and the renters were no longer long-term renters they were predominantly people affiliated with the university and they stayed for a very short time so if you take the dorms and the off-campus students i think what you've done is switch the impact from ward eight toward one and i don't think that was the intent i think to ignore the fact that you you have to address how many people live off campus to the best of your ability and there was a report that was generated and at least refer to that as you move forward i very much appreciate your time this is tough stuff um and thanks for listening thank you uh our last speaker is um uh who's online is dan castragiano castragiano um dan i'm not sure from uh the way that you filled out the forum if you wanted to speak during public forum i know that you're uh an applicant for a commission appointment if you wanted to speak at that time or if you would like to speak now hi councillor paul thank you um castragano is how you pronounce my last name thanks i just wanted to um confirm that i would have a chance to speak later on i can't get out of the house because of some family stuff and would appreciate some time later on of course you'll you'll have that time the um the uh uh the position that you've applied for is under the city council with mayor presiding that won't be that won't happen for some time but you will certainly have an opportunity then to speak to the council okay thank you very much i appreciate it sure uh with that and with no other speakers in con toys or online we will close the we will close the public forum and move on to item four which is a communication regarding city place there are two items as part of this agenda item the first is a public presentation from city place partners on this long-awaited project and i understand we have and i can see that we have cedo director brian pine with us uh would look to you brian if you'd like to tee this off or if you want to hand the floor to the city place partners actually i'd like to hand it off to the mayor to get us started that's okay okay thank you mayor wineburger thank you president paul good evening everyone um i'd like to start by kind of framing up for the council and the public the discussions that are going to take place regarding city place tonight um first uh we are going to give our first update to the city council and the public about city place since may uh which was just prior to when the local partners um headed by scott ireland dav farrington and al senacow all of whom are here tonight secured control of the site this update's going to start with a quick overview for me about where the project stands and then i will turn over the presentation to i believe dav farrington of city place partners and uh we are also going to hear from champlain housing trust the direct executive director michael monty um for then to update them on on their efforts i want to note that the city team working on this project which um is a sizable team we have members of it here uh david white uh brian pine our CEO director and tim samson who is our lawyer working on this uh alongside uh acting city attorney kim sturdivant and laura wheelock from dpw is playing a very large role right now as well um the team is also here and will participate in the exact expected executive session that is planned to follow the the public update uh we are not expecting any council action tonight after the executive section we do however expect to seek further council action on this project soon possibly as soon as next monday and here's why um since taking over the project in may the local partners have made extensive progress and are on the verge of moving from a project that has been stalled since 2018 to one that is under full construction as a sign of that i am happy to share that the city received a building permit application for the project's foundation earlier today cpp city place partners will share more about what this significant milestone means and other details regarding their progress in a moment for the project to take this step however and start construction of the foundation further action from the city council will be needed and the details of that action is what we're going to be reviewing with the council in executive session tonight since it's been uh sometime since we've discussed city place i'd like to just take a moment before going further to review the public interests that are at stake in this project and why as a result of those interests we have an agreement in place known as the amended and restated development agreement between the city and city place partners to support what is largely a private development project the central reason for this agreement the reason why we need a public private partnership whereas that you know generally when we see private developments move forward that's not needed is that this project involves substantial new public infrastructure being built that will result in the realization of a goal that has been part of official city policy since the adoption of plan btv downtown in 2012 and that goal is the reconnection of st paul street and pine streets for the first time since they were severed in the 1960s during period what during what's known as the urban renewal period this public infrastructure will be built with future tax dollars that will be generated by the project through an instrument known as tax increment financing and there's also a possibility that some federal infrastructure funds could be used to expand the amount of new downtown infrastructure that is built in the next few years from the beginning of this project all public funds have been carefully protected from development and construction risk and as a result of those protections the very substantial costs of delays since 2018 have all been borne by the developer not by the city some of the updates to the agreement that we're going to need to talk about are intended to ensure that this protection of public dollars continues the city of berlington has numerous other important interests in this project moving forward to successful completion including the creation of more than 400 much needed homes to address our acute and long-standing housing supply shortage within that 400 we will be creating this project will create 85 permanently affordable rentals which means that this project will be the largest affordable family housing development in berlington in decades and we'll hear more about that from michael montian cht in a moment in addition this project will create tens of thousands of square feet of new job creating retail space and the creation of vast new property tax revenues for the city and the education fund as well as the creation of other important new public revenues the current agreement between the city and city place partners was written and approved in early 2021 in the roughly 18 months since then much has happened the ownership of the project has changed and as we'll hear in a moment the developers now plan to join forces with a new affordable housing partner the legislature has granted a general extension for all tiff projects in recognition of the extremely challenging economic circumstances created by the pandemic and that creates the opportunity to change some of the tiff deadlines that were in the last version of this agreement driven by the statutes that were in place at that time further all litigation regarding the project has has now been resolved all of these changes as well as other details that have evolved over the last 18 months require updates to the current development agreement the city team has been working on these changes really since the beginning of the year we and city place partners knew that changes would be needed to the development agreement when they took over ownership from don synex in may and we discussed that need publicly at the time and we briefed the council and executive session in may that changes would be needed the fact that we are now ready to discuss these changes in detail in executive session in in case in anticipation of bringing forward an updated agreement for approval soon should be seen as a further sign of the progress of this project and with that i would like to invite cpp and chc to come up and and and and share further details about their progress do you have do you have hosted were you able to share your screen you should be able to there you go thank city council and the mayor's office if you could just speak into the microphone just so that we all can hear you so i want to thank city council and the mayor's office for inviting us for this update and i'm day ferrington one of the uh the partners the city place um partners along with al cynical in scott ireland this is uh patrick o brian he's one of our project managers who's been super instrumental in uh in forging this thing ahead we've uh we've been double teaming with the city and uh department of public works working with the cito office um working with all the departments on on every every detail of this and uh so we made a lot of progress and that's what we're here tonight to talk about so um the mayor mentioned back in the spring it was actually the last last day or two of um may we came to terms with um donson x to to have him step aside from the project and we took over his ownership and um immediately we started we re-engaged with the design team the architect stream french freeman and all the the subcontracting engineers got the plans back on schedule started working on the miscellaneous permits we needed from the state working out the last details with um dpw on some of the road issues and infrastructure utilities working with brolington water and sewer and electric and we've gotten to the point where we are now um we just applied today for our foundation permit submitted those plans um this afternoon and we will be starting in um in this on the south building it's a foundation permit for the entire site but we're going to be concentrating on the south building which is shown down in the southeast corner which is on bank street a hundred bank is our neighbor to the west and the mbt building is the neighbor to the east and that's the kind of standalone building um i can show a picture of that here it's the the limestone building on the corner so we're going to be focusing on that and working around clockwise on the block um in order to get ready and prepare the foundation and the podium um on the north building which is the wing um that runs down the new pine street and we have uh partnered with uh champlain housing trust to be the developer co-developer and partner on that piece of the project which will provide the inclusionary zoning units that are required um 85 or 86 units and um the concept is that we're going to build the the ground floor retail all around the block and then above that is where the residential takes place and that those are called the podiums and cht will be buying their podium on that pine street side and then constructing their project on top of that and i can let um like explain a little bit about where they're at and how they go about that uh excuse me good evening i'm michael monti i'm the ceo champlain housing trust and let me just say i'm operating on london time right now and so it's four three in the morning and i'm uh past due for a pint as they would say um but uh thank you counselors uh for the opportunity uh to speak to you this evening a cht is pleased to be in partnership with city place uh partners and feel strongly that this is a unique and great opportunity to build affordable housing uh in downtown brelinton as the mayor says one of the largest uh how affordable housing uh developments in certainly in decades as you know cht and its partner ever north which is formally housing bremont has a strong track record uh of building and developing affordable housing in brelinton and throughout north west brelmont and though not exclusively we have often uh partnered with private developers to achieve that goal having done that in showburn south berlington st albins uh here in brelinton and actually currently with sdr london colchester um out portion of the of the project we're calling city place west will provide permanently affordable uh rental homes our rents will be deeply affordable and will go way beyond the scope of the current iz ordinance uh bringing a quality home to not only what the ordinance requires but much deeper than that uh with uh 68 of the 85 apartments occupied by residents earning less than 60 of the median income and a third of that earning less than 50 of the median income and at least 20 of the of the people who are residing will be formally houseless or and will have a home once they come into our development as a result our proposed apartment size and bedroom mix will respond to the need and demand guided by the hundreds of applications and i mean hundreds of applications we receive each month and regulated by state and federal funding requirements to create well size how high quality apartments as with all projects we cannot be certain when the entire financing package will be assembled but we feel confident that it can be done given the resources that are currently available at the local and state level and given the need and support that this development has not only in brelinton but throughout the state of amont we are aggressively pursuing financing have been having discussions with state and federal leaders uh that's certainly your local leadership about this and have a clear and strong framework and path to be successful in our goal uh we have not initiated a project like this uh without finishing it and so that's our intent here again i want to want to say is that what we will do uh will go deeper and and differently uh than the i z ordinance will achieve a level of affordability that is stronger than is required by the ordinance or even at the development agreement and as such the sizing of our apartments and how we approach it may be different and typical that you might have in the i z ordinance but i'll stop there and and be available to answer any questions it's always harder when you're trying to do it under pressure anyway so we're going to um this um starting in early november we'll begin construction on that southwest uh southeast corner again like i said working around the um counter clockwise around the block in order to prep for the cht podium and then we'll continue along the north building which is all along um cherry street and then turning down the new st paul street again creating the lower retail space and then the second floor podium there um right now we're um evaluating three potential partnerships very similar to what uh the one that we're hammering out with cht and that'll allow us to have a joint venture partner on the balance of the north building so south building will be under construction probably going vertical by about june or july of 2023 um again some some uh scheduling opportunities with cht figuring out when the best time is to start that but the podium will be prepped and continuing on to the rest of the north building finishing off the entire project with completing the the two levels of structured parking above grade um and as part of this amendment to the development agreement we've worked on some agreed to schedules with the city on so starting this fall being completed by the same time november of 2025 with the roads complete and the rest of the public improvements the sidewalks and landscaping so we're looking at um you know about a three year schedule and um we're real confident about moving ahead at this point and um all i can say is it's about time thank you thanks so much are there others that are either with you or on the city side who wanted to add anything thank you uh we do have we do have an expected executive session but before we go into executive session if there are counselors who have any questions or comments now would be that time please don't let the lack of questions deter our or send a message of our lack of enthusiasm we just have a we we try to give people the opportunity to speak but we also know that we're going to be having an expected executive session and we'll probably be in a better position to answer questions as the as the project move moves forward um i yes council bergman um i actually don't need or even want you to give me a um a an answer tonight but just like cht has given us an indication of what they're going to be renting for and i want to say publicly how much i appreciate that i look at the rents that we just got from vhfa and you know understand that i think putting that in dollars uh in sense so people know it uh would be better but for the market rate um remainder it would be helpful to understand what those rents are so we can understand what this development is going to be doing to the socioeconomic mix of the downtown and the areas around it so you don't have to give me anything tonight it's probably still developing but i just think that that will be important so that people can really understand what it is that we're getting i mean us yeah i'll leave it at that well there's going to be a wide range because we're going from small efficiency units to studios one bedroom two bedroom i think we have some three bedrooms in this south building uh so the mix is going to be there and it's uh you know we do have a commitment um i think it's actually written up in the uh agreement to try to strive to to provide in market to the the worker housing segment as well as you know the range of the um the market rate stuff that will be out there and again market kind of sets sets rate so it's it's going to be uh there's a lot of units and there's going to be a lot of opportunity to uh to see where it lands but um yeah we we'll probably come up with something to share with you yeah i appreciate it i think the public will definitely do and as somebody who represents a working class ward um one of the poorer wards people are really stretched for housing even those who are making you know hundred percent of the um adjusted gross or median income in the area so them understanding what this will do for the the availability of housing to them will be really appreciated thank you thanks councillor bergman we'll go to councillor barlow thank you president paul i just want to i don't have any questions right now and i'm looking forward to the executive session but i just want to express my enthusiasm for this project and i concur with the sentiment that was expressed earlier it's about time and i'm excited to get going on this so thank you for that update tonight thanks councillor barlow i'll certainly second that this has been a long time in coming and uh we certainly are happy to have you here and also very happy that uh there are local faces at the table um yes if you could just come to the microphone so that we can hear al's referring to uh you know we we'll be blunt we were handed a mess when we bought this thing uh it was it was uh kind of embarrassing actually to to be associated through all these stumbles that were in place and one of the first things we had to do was clean up uh three or four lawsuits some of them were a big deal really impeding you know progress on the project uh the availability of financing having anybody even talk to us as partners um so we settled with mr franko and company which was very important because you know they were they were really holding things up um we with the help of uh the mayor and mediation in the spring got through some difficult moments with our neighbor at 100 bank street we got that all settled out we're on great terms with them now we're actually going to be getting our temporary power out of his building we're going to be building right up to him on on two sides so we realized that had to be we had to mend those fences right away and then there was some other longer conflicts that had been derived between our former partner and the previous general contractor that he had brought in um we got stuck settling that up and a couple other little miscellaneous disputes but as of last friday filed with the court was the last um franco dismissal and um so we're free and clear of any opposition and um i guess we we should say also we're we're planning on building this exactly as it was permitted originally so the same same number of units the same there's there's no changes we're not like trying to um make any changes to what got permitted um we thought that was the the cleanest there's no like bait and switch appearance it's just like let's build what and that's what we'd always been pushing for let's just build what we get permits for so that's that's our plan and um very i don't i don't know structural changes um you know the floor plans on the retail may change a little bit depending on the tenants we talk to and the sizes that they're looking for but that's about the only flexibility in the uh the building it's the 427 units including the cht units um 420 or so parking spaces and about 45 000 feet of street side retail all the way around and there is a um a restaurant and a public observatory space on the roof of the south building great thank you thanks so much and uh again thanks so much for being here we'll go to mayor weinberger and then we will go to motions to move into executive session thank you president paul um and uh thank you all for being here tonight um i uh do i just want to share my sense that uh since may i think this new team has has really made more progress in the maybe five months since taking over than had happened in all the time since 2018 um the uh all a lot of what again what you just heard about the change that the fact that there has been an ownership change that cht is now expected to build the affordable development as opposed to the in the the prior plan um uh you know don sinix was expecting to build all the affordable housing himself um uh the fact that there the litigation is gone all these are important changes that have taken place since the current agreement um was was created and approved by this body back in the beginning of 21 and so the process that we're about to talk to you in executive session is uh is the process of updating the document to reflect those changes to make it work with with the deal that is now your the agreement that is now the plan that is now in place and uh i'm very uh optimistic hopeful that we will all be able to come to a meeting of minds um so that uh this team can can move forward in the weeks ahead thank you very much uh mayor weinberger well in that spirit we'll move to uh the next item on our agenda which is part of the city place item uh item 2.02 which is a communication with it in um which is an expected expected executive session regarding the city place development um in order to go into executive session we have two motions um and for uh the first motion i'll go to councilor carpenter if you could uh if you could read off the first motion um thank you um i would move that the council find that premature general public knowledge of information concerning contract negotiations and attorney client communications regarding city place would co replace the city at a substantial disadvantage with such negotiations thank you councillor carpenter so we need a second to that motion uh seconded by councillor McGee is there any discussion on that motion seeing none uh we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion as made by councillor carpenter please say aye aye any opposed please say no that motion passes and with that we would go on to the second motion councillor carpenter thank you um based on that upon that finding i would move that the council go into executive session to receive confidential attorney client communications and updates on contract negotiations regarding city place under one vsa uh third three thirteen a one a and thank you uh and the second to that motion would be made by councillor McGee and as part of that motion the executive session will include members of the mayor's staff uh cito director brian pine david g white and attorney tim samson i believe that i'm covered everyone um is that correct uh mayor wineburger if we could add uh laura wheelock from dpw that would be great okay and and laura wheelock and uh dpw director chape and spencer as well yes great okay thank you um uh so there's a for a motion and a second uh is there any discussion on the motion uh uh councillor shannon just a quick question i didn't know if there was an estimate on the time for the executive session we will get to that uh seeing no other questions we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye and he opposed please say no uh that motion passes and we're expecting that the executive session will last no more than 45 minutes which will put us to approximately 9 p.m. uh we are going to be uh going downstairs into the busher conference room so for those of you who are here in person in con toys you can make yourselves comfortable uh if you want to stay with us for the 45 minutes or certainly can come back um we hope to return again in in by 9 p.m. thank you concession uh the next item on our agenda is uh is item number five and that's climate emergency reports is there any councillor uh or the administration who wishes to offer a climate emergency report seeing none we will continue with item number six which is our consent agenda is there a motion to move our consent agenda and take the actions as indicated uh point of information about climate emergency could you share what happened at sampling elementary school today uh i could we did we did talk about that at the outset of our meeting um but there were we're fortunately we were lucky that a number of other councillors were were at the at the event um are there i mean i'm happy to do it but are there other councillors who might want to talk about what their impressions were um of the uh nature-based uh climate solutions um we did see i'm sorry go ahead councillor travers if you're inviting folks to yes i'll give you a chance yes um so there were a number of us who were able to join um zoe richards among uh other folks who invited us to champlain elementary school to see some nature-based climate solutions at play before i joined the council this council did act on formally adopting a plan regarding nature-based climate solutions we are a city like many urban environments as compared to other parts of the state that is warmer because of the the footprint of an urban environment and nature-based climate solutions are are building us towards maintaining a cooler more sustainable more climate resilient city we saw a number of different things they're doing there including a wildlife corridor that they've built uh up on the hill behind champlain elementary uh a garden that the champlain elementary students have referred to as a stick garden that is uh cuttings of different trees that i think within a relatively small footprint they said something like more than 80 trees uh it will turn into for replanting i didn't realize this but as compared to any place in vermont um burlington is growing more new trees uh than any other uh location in the state uh at the interval i believe we're growing something like 30 000 new trees to be planted elsewhere um with a goal towards relatively soon in the future getting to uh growing 70 000 new trees to be put elsewhere uh but i think really the highlight of the visit was um a group of uh as president paul was mentioning earlier fifth graders who started in on this project some in third grade some in fourth grade at champlain elementary working on these different aspects including the wildlife corridor the stick garden um they've collected a number of acorns that they're planning on uh germinating and planting elsewhere they provided like president paul mentioned some homemade apple crisps from apples at champlain elementary um they showed us a number of signs that they made about their favorite thing about wild spaces and it was really nice to hear from the kids hopefully a mission that they carry on through um their grade school career and zoe richards who's really just a champion of this and we're so lucky to have her here in burlington um spoke to sort of how emotional it is to see uh you know young kids in elementary school speaking to this issue sort of almost to the same level that that she can now having uh operated in it for decades so it was a nice visit and nice demonstration of what we're doing really city-wide for nature-based climate solutions and really appreciate their inviting us thank you that was an excellent summary um was there anyone else who wanted to offer their impressions of the field trip seems like counselor traverse did a wonderful job um it was it was a great experience we were i think we were all really felt really good about having been there and uh and it was a pleasure to see the young people uh the fifth graders that were there they were they were really excited and really proud to show us what they had done um we'll go on to item number six which is our consent agenda uh is there a motion uh to move our consent agenda and take the actions indicated so moved uh thank you counselor mickey is there a second to that motion uh thank you counselor high tower any discussion on the consent agenda uh seeing none all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed please say no we've approved our consent agenda before we get to the deliberative agenda we have two other meetings that we need to attend to the local control commission and the city council with mayor presiding so we'll recess the city council meeting at 935 and call to order the local control commission the first item on i'm just going to go to that meeting the first item on that on that agenda is item 1.01 uh is there a motion to adopt the agenda so moved so thank you uh thank you commissioner traver seconded by uh commissioner carpenter uh is there any discussion on the motion to adopt the agenda seeing none all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye any opposed say no please we have our agenda there's no consent agenda so we have and we have one item on our deliberative agenda that is item 2.01 which is a first class restaurant liquor license application 2022 2023 for dim sum cafe dim sum and uh commissioner travers i'll go to you i'll move to approve the 2022 23 first class restaurant liquor license application for cafe dim sum 95 st paul street suite 120 with the following conditions all city permits need to be closed out contingent upon fire marshal approval and with all standard conditions motion made by councillor travers thank you seconded by councillor uh uh commissioner shannon is there any discussion on the motion and i i do see that uh will clavell is on zoom uh he was with the applicant at the license commission or the light at the license committee meeting i don't know will if you wanted to if there was anything that you wanted to add on behalf of the applicant any councillors uh sorry we're not there in person we're there earlier and saw that uh you're going into executive session sam and lee are here on zoom they are the owners of cafe dim sum and i would just say that there's a lot of excitement they opened about a year ago the first dim sum restaurant in burlington quickly outgrew their space so they've expanded and tripled their space and they're going to be adding hotpot and i think bringing dim sum and hotpot to burlington are two things that we haven't had and i know the community is very excited about it so just want to support them they're very very hard workers they've owned restaurants in burlington for over 15 years and i'm excited as a as a foodie to see them uh opening up this new venture in burlington great thank you thanks will if there was if there's anything that the applicants would like to add now would be the time or we can go to a go to any councillor questions i guess we'll go to if there is any discussion on this on the motion made by councillor travers uh seeing none uh all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye any opposed please say no and that motion passes unanimously uh thanks will thanks for being here and to the applicants we wish you the best um with no other business on this agenda and seeing no objection will adjourn the local control commission meeting at 937 and we will turn i'll turn the i'll turn this over to the to the mayor to preside over the city council with mayor presiding thank you president paul i call to order the meeting of the city council with mayor presiding at 9 36 p.m and would welcome a motion to adopt the agenda thank you council bergeron is there a second second by president paul discussion all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye opposed we have an agenda next item is the consent agenda and uh i'll make a i'll make a motion to adopt the consent agenda and take the actions as indicated thank you is there a second for that motion second by councillor mickey discussion seeing none we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion please say aye are there any opposed motion carries unanimously do we i just can't see do we have um councillor freeman on the on the line i know we do not okay um so it's just the members that are present yes we will now go to item 3.01 which is uh an appointment for an airport commission for a term expiring on june 30th 2023 so to fill out the rest of this term through next year and the floor is open for nominations council bergman i'd uh nominate dan castagrano who i believe is the only applicant dan was present before but we had led him to believe that the executive session was going to be much shorter and he had a child that i know had uh some difficulties tonight and so um and he wanted if he's here then that would be great if he's not then uh your people are pointing up there but i see some note at the bottom of the screen about him so maybe um i'm not sure who's are you able to i don't know who the host i got off when we went into executive session but um i can get back on okay i can help okay there we go okay great and before we go so good i see dan is available and we will uh as we do typically allow the applicant to speak to the full body in a moment first of all but before first are there any other nominations if there are no other nominations uh we will close uh close the floor for nominations and um uh now dan um go ahead hopefully you can uh address if you could make a short statement to the to the city council of mayor presiding sure thank you mayor windberger and um city council um counselors travers and paul thank you for speaking about going to talk to the fifth graders about climate change um i've taught a lot of students about climate change and one of the hardest things to do is is to talk about it and then the emotional part at the end when you are telling them you know what we're doing about it um so i prepared a short little statement here um the city of burlington declared climate emergency on september 23rd 2019 that was 1120 days ago and in the interim the climate emergency has only worsened flooding in pakistan hurricanes in the gulf south collapse of wildlife populations and vermont is not immune to the effects of the climate emergency it is impacting what makes vermont so special shorter and warmer winters for winter sports a shorter and more unpredictable sugaring season for maple syrup fewer opportunities to swim in lake shamp plain due to cyanobacteria and all this is impacting our economy it's the truth it's important to speak the truth it's not fun to hear but that's the truth and the burning of fossil fuels is the main cause of the climate emergency instead includes in all sectors electricity buildings aviation in the south burlington city council recently failed to include aviation emissions from the airport in their climate action plan and they're also not accounted for in the burlington net zero energy roadmap or in the 2021 vermont climate assessment they exist in this murky in between where municipalities and states all look the other way but if everybody looks the other way they're still in the atmosphere so what should we do we have to both measure and manage aviation emissions from the airport so i'm applying to the airport commission to help the city of burlington measure emissions from the airport and include them in burlington's net zero energy roadmap and to cap and reduce the amount of flights at the airport luckily for us we have an example from across the pond in june the dutch government decided to cap flights at amsterdam's schiffel airport in 2024 this represents a 12 cut from pre-pandemic levels the dutch have shown great courage and we have a unique opportunity in burlington to do the same we can be leaders on the national and international stage i included all of this on my application for the airport commission and in my messages to all of you today climate change and climate justice is what i care about the most and so i'm not trying to hide anything this is why i'm applying to the airport commission and i know many of you here and at home are worried about economic prosperity and that this can be harmful to our community but the simple truth is that we can't have infinite growth on our finite planet it is not sustainable we don't have infinite steel and plastic and glass and rubber and everything else there's only so much on this planet and we can create a prosperous thriving vermonts while reducing emissions from the airport we can have housing jobs businesses that thrive within our planetary limits we can build upon the opening of the e-final and express and work to expand rail service and frequency we can protect our $1.6 billion ski industry that under high emission scenarios is no longer viable in 2080 so i've looked at the minutes of recent airport commission meetings i know it's not about climate it's about grants and deicing materials and noise impacts and lots of other things i will contribute to that work and help steward the airport to the best of my ability and i can help calculate the emissions from aviation i can run the numbers i can create the spreadsheets i can do the stuff that a lot of other people don't want to do so that we can take bold and courageous and necessary action and finally this appointment as you said ends on june 30 2023 so if you don't like my being on the commission and i choose to reapply you can vote me down in eight months but tonight i ask for your vote so that i can contribute to the airport commission thank you okay thank you dan um is there any um so we have we have the one nomination is there any further discussion before we go to vote council bergman so i i just want to ask you to support dan's appointment um he has laid out the the question of climate and if that emergency resolution that we adopted means anything it means us taking what the airport does into consideration and we're doing it partially through the ground operations and other work dan has the expertise to assist in all of that work but it also means taking all the other things that um are involved including airport emissions um or aviation emissions into account we got a burning planet and those kids that i saw today deserve to have something that is going to be habitable and uh and livable for them so we actually really need a climate expert somebody who's an educator as well um to be on that commission like we need in all of the commissions that we have now uh when i um supported nick longo to be the permanent director i had a long conversation with nick and he expressed willingness to um to measure all of the emissions that are coming out of the airport not just the ground emissions that's something that um that dan can can assist on um greatly uh but you heard dan talk about his desire to make sure that all the things the deicing etc will be taken into account but we really do need to keep in mind the um the climate emergency when we're dealing with all of that work and that includes having somebody with dan's expertise on the uh on the commission so um that's the the sweetest way that i can express a real strong sense that we need to have somebody like dan and that we um we fiddle while our planet burns when we fail to do that thank you thank you councillor bergwin councillor hightower um just to comment that i am supportive of this um appointment i do encourage the applicant as i did over email to think about emissions um and um after that total energy use um regardless of the associated emissions rather than flights because i think it's good to measure what we actually want to reduce thank you councillor hightower are there any further uh comments before we go to about councillor carpenter thanks um i appreciate the passion that dan has um for climate change i need to say to leap right into a commission appointment where there's a presumption that we need to reduce flights and that's the only way we're going to get there is is troublesome to me and i'm just not ready to support that as um a position coming out of the gate um i agree with councillor bergman's points of view i think we should push the airport to measure emissions and that's a administrative function they should do without a commissioner we should ask them to do that but i'm not ready to to leap to a position that will require people to drive to other airports or whether that's good for a region or not good for a region um so i just want to express that thank you councillor carpenter any further discussion councillor jang thank you mr mayer um i completely agree with your statement about you know about the application that we we read and i'm a little bit concerned as well and but to tell you the truth it is also inspiring to see a young man in front of us speaking with passion about climate change and also want to serve the city in this capacity especially when he is the only person applying for this job and i hope that then we'll learn at the commission that things don't work sometimes the way you want to but we invite you to collaborate with people who are there and to try to move the needle to the right direction with what is possible for the city of burlington to do um because there is a sense of urgency but also there is a way that we work together that we inspire so you have my vote congratulations thank you sorry further discussion okay um we will uh go to a vote um uh i believe i'm not certain about this because i know department head appointments are different but i think that the requirement is for a majority of the members present we will have one two three four five six seventy nine ten members voting so we need six votes uh for um mr kester you still have 10 i vote on this so i believe we have 10 so um we will uh go with the show of hands all those in favor of appointing dan uh kester griano sorry if i don't have that permission quite right uh to the airport commission please raise your hand i see one two three four votes and so there is not uh there's not sufficient votes uh for the appointment to carry um i would welcome motion to re-advertise the position councillor shannon thank you councillor shannon is there any uh discussion of that motion prison paul no sorry i think we have to have a second sorry second all second second by president paul discussion um just want to note that this is i think the second time that we've reposted the position um and i do think to dan's point it is a shame that we didn't move forward with this applicant for the next eight months even with some of the issues that some of us felt with it um given that we've reposted this and had a few applicants thank you any further discussion on the motion to repost the position seeing that we'll go through a vote all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye and are any opposed is that an opposition as well um what do we do we can uh i believe it carries by a vote of let's do it let's do a show of hands all those in favor of the motion please raise your hand are any opposed the motion carries six to four and the position will be reposted um thank you dan for your um uh passion and for your application and uh there may since the airport is engaged in substantial planning um for uh how it becomes an even more it's already one of the greener airports uh in the country but it is engaged in planning to make it even more so um there may be other opportunities for you engage in that work given your passion this area with that um the seeing no further business and no objection though is a sorry i apologize that we also have uh the board um registration board of registration of voters for a term expiring june 30th 2024 um uh the floor is open for nominations for this position president paul thank you uh i would nominate alison hart thank you is are there any additional nominations council carpenter i would nominate warren baker great are there any additional nominations i can say ask again are there any additional nominations final chance okay the floor is closed for nominations um are either the applicants available here in contoys or president paul if you're able to look and see if they're online i do know that at one point alison hart was actually in contoys and then left when we went into executive session i believe may still be on maybe on zoom but i'm not sure um i was going to sign on but i believe uh jordan or or perhaps i see this on i don't see alison hart um if maybe they're underneath a different name and want to raise their hand i'm happy to recognize them but i don't see them in the attendees she may have left okay okay um if we don't have either the applicants um with the nominators anyone else like to say anything further about the nominees before we go to about council carpenter um i just want to say that mr baker reached out to me when he found out there was an opening and was really very enthusiastic he's been a poll worker in ward far um and has become very engaged and um was just really interested in uh we don't always have people leaping for the vote of board of voter registration and he um has a genuine interest in making sure that our voting is very inclusive and includes all of our neighbors so i would hardly nominate him thank you council carpenter president paul thank you um so alison had reached out to me um and uh was i was i was happy to see someone who had not served in a role in city government who had an interest in this important board um she has served on the board the vermont housing and conservation board and on the board of pathways vermont and her occupation is a affordable housing and support services consultant um i you know as i say i'm i'm always um i'm always i'm always happy when people step forward and uh i think her her her hope to accomplish as a board member says a lot that she would just simply like to ensure the vermont stays as one of the most accessible places to vote in our country and um has spoken with other uh either current or past board members um which is why she was encouraged to run for this thank you thank you president paul any further discussion before we go to a vote any further discussion um okay uh so we will um again it will take six votes for um either nominee to uh be appointed we will start with a show of hands in favor of the first nominee um allison heart okay um we will make that we have there are seven votes for allison heart congratulations and um thank you uh for stepping up it is great to see a competitive race for the board of registration voters at a time when uh we have um uh you know when we see all around us uh strains on our democratic systems it's great to see this interest in serving this position and i want to thank warren baker for his application as well and um and his commitment to our electoral system so um with uh that decided and now i think it's accurate to say there's no more business on this agenda and i see no objection uh i will adjourn the city council with mayor presiding at 9 56 p.m thank you mayor weinberger uh so we will return to our recess city council meeting at that same hour there are five items on our deliberative agenda uh give people a chance to move back to move back to that meeting the first item on our deliberative agenda is item 7.01 which is a tobacco license application 2022-2023 for vermont hempcraft llc uh councilor travers if i could come to you for a motion on this item sure i'll move to approve the 2022-23 tobacco license application for vermont hempcraft llc 191 college street uh suite 100 and would ask for the floor back upon a second motion made by councillor travers thank you and seconded by councillor hightower councillor travers sure so um our license committee reviewed this application um upon discussing it further with the city attorney's office i actually don't think the license committee or the council is vested with any authority to take action with respect to tobacco license applications i think rather the city serves more of an administrative function that wants the application fee uh is paid um that the application is then forwarded back to the state for consideration that said i appreciated the fact that this came before the license committee because it's a part of our uh getting our heads around locally um the retail cannabis industry standing up here in burlington i've come to understand that um there are certain products that you may come to find uh in a retail cannabis store that the state requires that you have a tobacco license for even if as is the case with this applicant as was stated before the license committee you you have no intention of selling actual tobacco products that you need that license for certain paraphernalia and other items that you may find in a retail cannabis store so again appreciate this coming before the committee because it gives us really a full scope of the steps that folks are having to take uh in heading towards a retail cannabis license as i understand this applicant is is doing we anticipate seeing this applicant again when they come forward for a local cannabis license so i the motion is to approve but i don't think it makes much of a difference thank you thank you councillor travers uh is there any other discussion on this item uh seeing none we'll go to a vote uh all those in favor of the motion is made by councillor travers please say aye aye any opposed please say no uh that motion passes unanimously which moves us to item 7.02 which is an appointment to the winewski valley park district with a term expiring june 30 2024 and with that the floor is open for nominations for this position there are any nominations for this position nominate andrew greg thank you there's a uh nomination by councillor travers to nominate uh to appoint andrew craig to this position um are there any other nominations for this appointment are there any other nominations for this appointment seeing none we'll close the floor to nominations i don't know if the applicant is present oh the applicant is present thank you so much for identifying yourself if you would like to come and introduce yourself and if you have anything that you'd like to say we would welcome your comments thanks so much for staying so long with us if you just press the button right in front of you so the green light goes on there we go yeah i'm a chaplain and by nature we don't use microphones very often so i apologize um in the interest of time you guys have the application and what i would like to talk about is how i came to find this which was as a renter trying to find a way to participate more broadly in the civic process here in burlington and renters often have um a unique and closer tied to our parks and our public lands because they're often the spaces on the landscape here in the city that were allowed to have these deep relationships with and i found this opportunity as a renter and for renters more broadly exciting to have possibly the chance to have a broader stewardship of these parks and these lands that are protected for us thank you thank you thanks so much for your comments are there any counselors who wish to speak to this nomination prior to a vote seeing seeing none then we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the appointment of andrew craig to the wanouski valley park district please say aye hi are there any opposed please say no uh congratulations andrew the vote is unanimous um and thank you very much for your willingness to step forward to serve the next item on our agenda 7.03 which is a vote on the rail yard enterprise project the preferred alternate selection uh we had a work session on this item uh at our september 19th meeting and a lot has gone on since that we had an opportunity for a site visit we've had lots of questions um that have been answered by staff and uh the team from dpw is here uh before we go to any comments from you uh from the dpw team we'll go to a motion and with that we'll go to councillor barlow who's the chair of the two committee thank you president paul i moved to approve the selection of alternative one b as the preferred alternative for the rail yard enterprise project thank you councillor barlow a motion is made made by councillor barlow and seconded by councillor bergman um so with that we'll go to uh the team from dpw any comments that you would like to make uh before we uh go to the council and then go to a vote great thank you so much president paul i have with me greg oye from stand tech in the dpw project team cori mimz olivia duris and norm baldwin we have a very short presentation just to touch on what additional work we've done since our september meeting and really summarize uh the alternative one b which we're requesting your support for tonight with that alternative over cori mimz so yes we're going to keep this short um we had done a a bit of outreach as you were aware uh following our last meeting with you all on september 19th so uh apologies well i really don't need that um early october 5th we i went and spoke with uh berlington walk bite council and kind of uh gave them the same presentation in which we presented to you on the 19th of september um further clarifying some of the proposed alignment details as as it stands currently so that uh to address some of the concerns that they had i was at the meeting in which they did um concur to send to council their memo with their concerns and i would say a significant portion of those had been addressed during that meeting with them um but they had that drafted prior to uh my presentation um and so i feel that you know we'll continue to take that input and definitely we'll work with them as we progress in this project so we met with them on october 5th october 6 we held the site visit some of you were able to make it to and we were able to kind of walk the alignment um proposed for the one b alternative and i think that we had between counselors a dpw commissioner as well as some business owners and operators there in the vicinity as well as some general public who came through um and it was a a good event to be able to really see what we were working with in that corridor um the 11th of october um we met with the berlington historic preservation review committee to discuss the impacts that this project would have on um some of the historic features in the area uh it was uh a very good uh conversation in that there was some significant discussion on the project the alignment the proposed impacts planning in the area and ultimately we came away with a vote um in approve uh three uh yeah three oh vote for approving uh the one b alternative as the preferred alternative for this project uh and then october 12th we came through um and we tried to attempt to engage the community and the bob mills area uh through an effort of fly firing and sending out translated materials to try to get a little bit more additional feedback from those uh community members in the immediate vicinity of the project limits unfortunately we did not have a turnout um but we were going to continue to do efforts in the neighborhood to engage the community members on a one to one level so those are some of the outreaches that we had done um since the last time we had spoken and we just I have the presentation here um but I really just kind of more or less leave it up to counselors to any other questions thank you uh uh uh if there are questions from the council uh councilor jang and then to be followed by councilor bergman thank you president I was not here on the 19 I'm sorry I missed the presentation um and everything and can you and also the memo doesn't really explain the reason as to why this was chosen I wanted to understand if it's cost related or environmental issues what are the issues that led you to choose this b1 yeah um there were a number of it was both cost and environmental impact so uh to go through the three alternatives shown here uh really what you're looking at is you're looking at a similar impact to the area between battery street and south shamp plain street between any of the alignment alternatives uh with the two alternative and five b you're looking at additional connections to the pine street corridor uh the alternative two uh and five b both also go down in the area of the barge canal which we know is a superfund site um an amended site so you're talking about uh additional costs associated with contaminated soils and a larger footprint of the project incurs additional costs uh with that there is also the impact to what would be the Curtis Lumber building or is the Curtis Lumber building in the alternative two um and so with alternative two alignment you would be looking at um really the full demolition of the Curtis Lumber building in order to create the grid street network with Kilburn at that location you know and then with those considerations amongst others with traffic analysis as well as you know just you know the cost environmental impacts and community engagement one be stood out as the all preferred alternative of the three build options and this we're also compared against the no build option which would be the fourth project option thank you um thank you and I think this is going to be a great addition especially for those who live in the new north end this would be good to access 89 um and during public forum someone stated that you know his business will be impacted and was wondering if you have alternative of supporting that business um yeah thanks so uh with the federal process you know we have to get a selection of the preferred alternative first before we can move into the right-of-way acquisition and those converse those further detailed and financial conversations can be held with any property owner so you know following council's you know hopeful approval of the one be alternative it's a selection alternative we would submit the documentation in November to the federal highway they would take their time to review and ultimately come to their conclusion if they also concur and approve the one be as the alternative and then we can move into that next phase of further engagement and discussion with both property owners and tenants in the vicinity of the project and lastly I hope that you maintain a line of communication with them you know as we move forward and thank you president thank you guys thank you so much councillor jing uh we'll go to councillor bergman um thank you councillor jing for teeing that last one up nicely um as uh you know from the the walk around and conversations would nick uh that impact that business is going to be severely impacted and um i just want to say that as a supporter of the railroad enterprise project that we need to not sacrifice that business and any other business in that building on the altar of the correct road route so everything that the city not just the dpw because this is about business support uh i think we're uh at least a day late and many dollars short in terms of our communications with them um and i really think that we have to intensify our communications with uh with that business i think we fail we have failed them so far and i hope that we won't continue to do that i have a question regarding the local motion i'm happy to see the you know you hear what you're saying about their memo and there's a 12-day gap so i just want to make make it clear um they talked about um the and our conversation previously uh you know indicated that a shared youth past shared youth past is really uh necessary so they have made a recommendation in terms of the minimum width in their memo um could you clarify um exactly what the status of that is yes uh at this phase i mean these are just preliminary uh we have it as a 10-foot minimum shared use path through the whole area which meets the minimum standard per their memo as well they are recommending based upon the amount of traffic they anticipate that they would prefer a 12-foot minimum um which is something that we would look at once we get to the right-of-way acquisition phase and we're able to actually see what we're what room we are able to work with uh while working with the property owners there on the northeast side of the roadway alignment so again the next phase we definitely would be looking into all those details and uh yes we would continue to investigate that option okay i think they're right that the the traffic on the road is going to be intense that it's going to be a problem and as somebody who uh runs on a shared use paths down Riverside Avenue um having that separation from uh from cars is critically important and the use of this is it's going to be really good for the city when this comes into and so that means there's going to be a lot more traffic there so i would really encourage you to um to have to do everything you can to expand the uh the size of the the width of the road and uh i just want to find out more in terms of the roadway width they have recommended reducing the um the width to 11 or 12 feet to reduce vehicle speeds i think they're probably right that's when people will get off of battery street and start thinking about going on to 89 from the new north end or from my neck of the woods and so uh the chances of people speeding you know as they they go is is great so uh the idea of reducing widths is smart in my mind so your comments yeah um so we have an updated typical roadway section here one that was presented previously did not show the two foot shoulder on the roadway edging what it is is that with the amount of large um truck that are going to be coming out of the rail yard um we had to design the roadway to accommodate their turn movements and so with the bends to the roadway alignment as it stands now the semi trailers were going to require that 13 foot in order to make those movements without mounting the curb so at this phase you know with serpentine alignment of the roadway that total like 11 foot shared lane and then a two foot shoulder that two foot shoulder would allow for those tractor trailers to make those bends uh without mounting the curb okay and so that would uh mean that they've recommended mountable curbs that is a way that that can be integrated into that uh or no but no mountable curbs it's just that the shoulder needs to be there to accommodate the truck traffic from using that full 13 foot width to navigate the serpentine corridor so clarify for my simple mind uh how close to the uh 11 or 12 feet is this going to be i'm i'm hearing that it's not going to be reduced that it's going to be so the the lane cross section you're seeing here is just been demarcated here by clarifying there's a shoulder but the trucks need all 13 feet to navigate the route but the roadway itself would be 11 and then the the the travel lane is 11 feet with a two foot shoulder okay thank you and uh could you just comment about the the green belt that they had mentioned again similarly to what we said about the same with the width of the shared use path is that that would be looked at and evaluated based upon how much additional right of way we're looking to acquire for the roadway alignment so with that discussions with the property owners and once we start getting that level of design of the detail design of the roadway we can determine how much buffer or if the green belt is going to be able to put in along this roadway section so we we agree that we want to see as much as possible as I feel it makes for a better corridor you'll allow for better plantings you know so all these things are being looked at but we just can't make a solid determination at this point okay yep uh for stormwater as well and you and I talked about the the dip so to speak so the ponding effect so all that we can do to to deal with that but I'm excited um about the possibility of doing this and therefore allowing us to to do the southern connector and also do this right so this is so far so good thank you councillor bergman councillor high tower sorry I have more of a I didn't do my homework as much as councillor bergman did so I think I have more of a follow-up question specific to what is our strategy and or rights or ability to work with um not just property owners but also renters in order to compensate them for any loss of building land anything along those lines yeah the federal process has involved with both communication with the property owners as well as businesses uh tenants in the area so it's it's it's it covers a lot um but again that uh I would say is you know we would have more outreach and with and specific the state would have outreach with these businesses as those processes and discussions are helped so at this phase um you know we have done a lot of outreach to the community as far as stakeholders um and tenants as uh we did not reach out to all tenants directly as we reach out the building owners and now they were the ones in which we're managing those conversations unless otherwise directed so you know the next phase everyone would be getting reached out to who is being impacted as it's part of the evaluation process and do we have any ability to to do we even have the legal ability to give flows to renter like cash compensation or is that only to property owners uh there the federal process um has uh different ways in which it can accommodate that and I would let actually let our consultant Greg Goya speak to this a little bit more detailed than myself awesome sure yeah so yeah as part of that process uh impacts to property owners including tenants are evaluated and uh there is um relocation assistance provided for tenants of buildings um and so there there's that whole process that we need to follow and um there is uh appraisals done on the properties to try to determine the value of that and um and then have those discussions with those owners and tenants um so that's how part of the process that'll unfold during the detailed design phase of the project great thank you great thank you Councillor Hightower uh I don't see anyone else in the queue uh if there are no other councillors that wish to offer any comments or questions then we will go to a vote on the motion uh the motion was to approve the selection of alternative 1b as the preferred alternative for the rail yard enterprise project all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye any opposed please say no the motion passes unanimously uh many thanks to all of you for all your engagement with the council on this very important vote um congratulations thank you thank you it's a good day for all of us yep bold step tonight and we look forward to working more with you in the future to get this done thank you thank you we will move on to item 7.04 which is an ordinance uh uh comprehensive development ordinance on parking minimum and maximum parking requirements and transportation demand management z a 22-07 for a motion on this item I'll go to Councillor Travers I moved to postpone this item to our meeting on November 7th 2022 and would ask for the floor back upon a second great thank you for the thank you for the motion uh seconded by Councillor Hightower uh Councillor Travers um so this is an item that we have postponed previously um I would say as as we have uh sort of reached the finish line of a long process with respect to this matter um a number of folks have continued to come forward with uh questions and and feedback uh with respect to the matter um I hope I'm at liberty to say that I've been working with Councillor Bergman among others to try to address some of these concerns um and with a bit more time uh hopefully we can reach a conclusion on it I suppose a comment just to the public if folks are still tuned in is that uh if there are folks who who continue to have concerns or feedback with respect to this matter to please uh let us know uh sooner rather than later this has been on our public agenda a number of times now and would appreciate that feedback hopefully with a bit more time we can come to a conclusion here on the matter um and I would say another important part for tonight is that uh I do think that um this is a matter that will require uh some further feedback and an opportunity for us to ask questions of city staff uh who cannot be here this evening uh and so that is the reason for the request of postponement to November 7th. Thank you Councillor Travers is there any additional uh discussion on the motion to postpone this item to the meeting uh to our meeting on November 7th uh seeing none then we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion to postpone action on this item until our November 7th meeting please say aye. Aye. Any opposed please say no uh the motion passes unanimously and this item will come back to us at our first meeting in November which brings us to the last item on our agenda uh 7.0 on our deliberative agenda 7.05 which is a vote on a hearing regarding Orlando's bar and lounge um outdoor entertainment permit um Councillor Shannon I was hoping you could provide the council particularly the many of us who are not on the license committee um uh with a brief overview and then if you can go to a motion you'd like me to give the overview first and then either either way whichever way either one okay I'll make the motion and then I'll just okay ask for the floor back up to the second that's okay um I move to accept the recommendation from the license committee to hold the hearing regarding the sworn complaint made against Orlando's bar and lounge alleging violations of its entertainment permit and to schedule the hearing on Monday October 24th 2022 during the regular city council meeting great emotion emotion is made by Councillor Shannon uh seconded by Councillor McGee so we'll go back to you Councillor Shannon for that overview thank you President Paul um this is uh an establishment that has had some trouble for many years um in terms of having complaints and um and some issues that uh I was uh that preceded my tenure on the license committee which I'm now in my second year on the license committee I remember the prior chair raising an issue about this establishment and concern about approving a license um we have had complaints um I went down to the establishment myself uh and witnessed the behavior myself warned them we've continued to have complaints and for that reason I don't think you know we don't want to go into the merits of this at this point because this is just to warn the hearing where they should have the opportunity to you know all parties get to tell their sides but um the process here is that the council would hold the hearing and hear from both sides and decide how we want to adjudicate this issue the one thing I will say is um I actually had been pushing to have this hearing as soon as possible I think we now know we might have a very busy October 24th agenda and if there was a desire by councillors to have this hearing on or by you President Paul to have this hearing on November 7th I also think that that would be fine give us more time and give the establishment more more warning as well thank you councillor Shannon we are going to have a number of items on our on our agenda for October 24th um at the license committee I thought we wanted to do it on the 24th but if you don't believe that it will be a hindrance to the establishment or to the person who has to the complaint then we could we can amend that too would you prefer to maybe we should have that on giving them a little bit more time um if you want to uh change your motion I think we've now established we do have friendly amendments so I will offer a friendly amendment to change that date to November 7th okay and it's amenable to the seconder right it's been such a long time since we've done this so I think the idea is that it's is it amenable to the seconder it is amenable to the seconder so uh we'll we'll go with the November November the meeting on November 7th um are there any other additional comments that anyone wishes to make on this motion yes yes councillor jing quick question about you know the nature of the complaints and also who made it who more details about this because it seems I have no idea sure sure um I do want to be careful about I don't know how much detail we should go into without having the hearing and without having um the party's present but the the nature of the complaint is a noise complaint it's about extending beyond what their permit allows them to do in terms of hours and the complainant is a neighbor okay yep and in this case is do we send a private investigator or how does it work what's the process the the process um we don't have the attorney that we had at the subcommittee here for this meeting but it is kind of a I would describe it as a quasi-judicial process um so it's a very formal process where we hear from both sides right um thank thank and I think with that type of process we shouldn't be engaging with with either party um in advance of that yep and this is just for my learning and growth and was wondering if those who are in the license committee can investigate themselves because I heard somebody went there to assess the situation is it allowed and just want to understand the whole premises um I went um in the spring not related to the most recent incident and um yes we're allowed to talk to establishments and remind them that their their permit for entertainment and outside consumption has now expired and uh they need to you know I think that that's uh preferable to going through a quasi judicial process but when that doesn't work we we end up in a more more formal process um so just wanted you know it this isn't the the first time there's been a lot of work that's preceded this thank you for clarifying thank you so much councillor jang uh we'll go to councillor bergman then we're gonna need to we're getting to the magic hour just uh as the former prosecutor of these things um and having gone to a superior court and the uh vermonta supreme court on a quasi judicial hearing in front of this body it's really important that we act as independent impartial judges in this matter that we do not do investigations of this um this complaint and that we gather and have entered into evidence all of the um of the evidence that is gathered that's that's relevant um and that we do that within a hearing um and to the extent to which um this is something that the uh the establishment has due process rights so that requires proper notice and uh an opportunity to be heard and an opportunity to have a council so the uh the extension is a really wise thing with that regard um and uh I just would caution all of us to uh to stay away from this until you hear it in front of you um and hopefully our attorneys will there will be an attorney to to act if necessary um to bring the prosecution and an attorney um that will act as bark as our council um and that there be the appropriate um walls between them so that no no attorney from the or any of us ends up in uh so none of us end up in superior court defending the actions of this kind of a pain but thank you for those uh thank you for those words of advice um if there are no other comments from the council we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion as made by councilor shannon please say aye aye any opposed please say no uh so that means the motion passes and unanimously we will have a hearing not at our next meeting but the meeting after on november 7th and the parties will also be notified of that that completes our deliberative agenda um we are now at 1035 so we would need to make a motion to suspend our rules and um if we are to complete the rest of our agenda which is the committee reports general city affairs and then updates from the mayor is there anyone who wishes to make a motion to suspend our rules okay uh then without further ado that brings us to the end of our agenda um i will ask for a motion to adjourn uh made by councilor hightower seconded by councilor mcgee all those in favor of the motion to adjourn please say aye aye we are adjourned at 1035 and thank you for joining us this evening our next meeting is next monday on october 24th have a good week and we'll see you in a week