Outstanding. Apologies for that. So my name is Aaron Soto. I am the Director of Learning at CoreLite, and today I'm going to be talking a little bit about the Zeke Open Source project in the light of Open Sock. So I've actually been part of the Open Sock team for several years. Very excited to kind of talk about how these two projects are going to work together. Today's presentation was actually going to be a joint presentation with Amber, who is our Zeke Community Director.  So I'll be talking a little bit about the community piece, but I'll try and do it justice to her content. To kind of talk a little bit about... Let me get my... I see that is going to be... I do not blame Discord right now. It just had the rug pulled out from under it. So let me switch over to this. So I'm going to talk a little bit about Zeke. What is Zeke? It's an open source framework that is used for... What do you mean? Okay. It's an open source framework used for network security monitoring, basically looking at network traffic. And you might have heard of Zeke as Bro. So back in... This was back in 95. Bro started at Lawrence Berkeley National Labs. And there were a number of people who were looking into this problem space and were thinking... Not even as a security context, but just looking at network traffic at large. And the name Bro kind of was more... Really was kind of a nod to Big Brother being like, this has a lot of surveillance potential, but it also has a lot of network security potential, which is obviously what we'll be focusing on today. But if you've heard of Bro or if you've heard of Zeke, it was probably as part of like a research center and university government, like a big organization having it in a sock, using it for instant response, for threat hunting, even potentially for like network forensics and network operations. And there's actually some vendors, though I mentioned I'm employed by Corlite. There are a number of vendors who actually have Zeke integrated in with their platform and use it. So if you've heard of it before, that's probably why. Zeke itself is actually very customizable, very extensible. It's really kind of its own language. And there's a lot that you can do with Zeke in terms of just having scripts and plugins and protocol analyzers and kind of these components that work together to analyze your network traffic. So there's a Zeke package manager. If you go to packages.zeke.org, you can see all of these packages that the community has contributed, but you also, because it's open source, you can write your own. And so there's actually a tryout.zeke.org environment where you can play around with that. And I'm not going to dive into that too much right now. I just want you to know that it's out there. So what is the data? Like the Zeke data is really where the power is. I want to talk about what that looks like. So I'm going to use three examples here, three slides or three logs to kind of start that conversation. On the left is the con logs, the connection log. You've ever seen NetFlow and it's got like IP addresses, ports, protocols, timestamps, like all this really high level information. That's basically the con log. Every single connection will appear in the con log. But then there's these other logs that are more protocol specific. So let's say I have HTTP data, like I have, you know, a web browser talking to a web server. I'm going to see all of the metadata associated with that connection. So things like, what was the user agent string that was sent? What's the URI that was requested if you're talking about the client side from the server side? Like what was the mind type that was returned? How many bytes? What was the status code? All of those things we see in our HTTP log. Similarly, if we're talking about other protocols, let's say like DNS, I can see the DNS, like the client in the server. I can also see the queries and the answers, the responses, which is surprisingly difficult to dig into sometimes. We'll talk about that more in a second. Now realistically, there are only a few logs that you're really focused on in a given environment, in a given exercise, and then even frankly even an open site. But there are, I'm going to push forward those logs in total now, I mean within the Zeke open source project. So there's a log for pretty much any protocol you could think of and all that metadata, that rich metadata from that protocol is stored in that log for whatever purpose that you might need. I've got a couple of links down at the bottom to Corleag has a little PDF cheat sheet. I'll have that link for you in a second too. And the Zeke open source project has really good detailed documentation about logs and even some things that didn't make the cheat sheet. That's actually where I stole these graphics from was from the Corleag cheat sheet, because it's a little more colorful. So, how do we like to really talk about how we use the, let me start off by kind of trying to get a little bit so big to see things are on somebody or with somebody or with those like that we get some from those like wires dark and deep be done. Or in the middle we have it like intrusion detection system treatment prevention systems. So things like snort and suricata things that we'll find as we can work our way through just go looking at this this kind of signature based detection. And then on the far right we have that flow. We have, you know, the IP addresses, protocols, timestamps, that kind of high level information. These are three very common tools that we'll see as you, as you're kind of getting familiar, you know, as you're probably already familiar with. But let's use those to kind of compare Zeke. To start off with, Zeke is really fundamentally different from something like NetFlow. It's really well it's really different from all of these but let's start with NetFlow. So NetFlow is giving us just that, you know, protocol timestamp, just that generic info versus the something like Zeke is going to be able to understand protocols at a much deeper level so it understands how something like HTTP works and it can pull out all that metadata. It can even see things like files being sent over HTTP and extract those files out. So we we're not saving everything we're saving the most useful to this. And really, when you're thinking of Zeke, I want to talk about compares to some of these tools. I want to say like throw away your ideas, throw away NetFlow first be useful and deploy Zeke in parallel with these tools and especially if you have something like a full package capture, then you can go ahead and use Zeke to help find where the most interesting pieces of that full package capture that data reside. Now, comparing Zeke to an IDS is something that's very commonly done. And I want to take just a second to talk to that because Zeke isn't here to say what's good or bad or what's right or wrong. It's here to say this is what's happening with NetFlow. Because I need to respond to that. I know at least I need to investigate to look at. But Zeke is here logging everything that's going on and giving us the control to say, is this good or is this bad. Now, as I mentioned before, Zeke is very expandable, very sensible. And so there's a lot of things that we can add on to Zeke. We can kind of do things like, hey, if you see these kinds of anomalies, let me know. Because Zeke understands protocols at such a low level, it can do things like to say, hey, this looks like protocol abuse. This looks like a situation because I totally understand how this protocol should work. And this is not conforming to that standard. I'm going to go ahead and write a notice log. I'm going to go ahead and write something to the weird log. And we'll talk about some of those logs a little bit more in a second. But there's a lot of things that we can do with this. So when I'm talking about Zeke data, what I'm really talking about is the representation of network traffic and what you're seeing on your network as it's represented in Zeke data. Now, there's a couple of ways you can get those logs out. You can look at the raw Zeke logs. And we'll kind of see a little bit of that today. But as you normally use in an enterprise and as you'll use an open sock, that data is being forwarded to a seam where you can interact with that. And you get the context of all the other host-based data and everything else that's coming into that seam environment. So in case you haven't guessed already, our seam of choice for open stock, if you were watching the workshop earlier, is gray log. And so we'll talk about what this looks like in gray log. But one of the things that is, before we jump into that, I want to talk about how we kind of associate these logs with each other. So I remember I said we had like a con log and an HTTP log. And so every connection that comes in, I'll see in my con log, but every time there's some HTTP data, HTTP application layer protocol identified in this connection, there will be an HTTP log for that connection that has all that relevant metadata. Now the question becomes, how do I kind of pivot? How do I jump? I see something in my con log and I know there's HTTP in there. How do I go find the matching thing in my HTTP log? So the way you're going to do that is what's called the UID or the connection unique ID. And that's something that every time there's a mention of this connection, it's going to appear in any one of these logs. So if I have a connection, let's say, that uses HTTP and let's say it transfers a file, well, then I'm going to see that same UID in my con log, in my HTTP log, in my files log. And each one of those logs is going to give me the information about that file transfer. On the topic of file transfers, there's another type of unique ID called the file unique ID. And similarly, if I kind of want to pivot around and investigate a file that's happening or that I'm interested in, then I can use that file unique ID and search through logs and see what connections are associated with that unique ID. So, all right, I've done a lot of the explanation I want to guide into like one pretty thorough use case. And I want to do this for two reasons. One, I want to get you in the mindset of how an incident responder thinks. And for some of us, that's not a stretch. And for some of us that might be a little new. But the second thing I want to do is I want to show you how you would use just a Zeke data to work through a particular incident. And so let's say I'm, you know, fresh out of college or fresh, you know, out of another career field I'm pivoting. And I'm, you know, just joined this team. I'm a sock analyst entry level. And as is, you know, tradition, I am awarded the honor of the night shift and I'm sitting here and I'm watching alerts roll in. And it's my job to kind of triage these alerts. So I'm trying to figure out when something comes in, do I have like a playbook or procedure something that I can fall back to to say I know how to handle this. We've seen this before where I have something in my playbook that I know how to how to resolve this myself. Is it maybe instead something that I can I can dismiss I can say well this is a false positive or this is not actionable. Okay, somebody's poor scanning. Doesn't matter. I can't really do anything about it. Or in, you know, the third case, do I need to escalate this? Do I need to bring this to someone who can then, you know, spend a little bit more time looking at this or maybe has the piece to work through this. And so it's doing I'm sitting here, I'm watching these alerts roll and I'm trying to figure out can I deal with this. Can I deal with this myself can I dismiss this. Do I need to escalate this and alert and alert comes in from our internal detection system and it says hey, I saw a DNS request leaving the network, and the host name in a DNS request match the signature so the ideas raised are to say I know that I have a signature that says that's associated with a known command and control server a C to server. So what am I going to do to kind of a can I deal with this myself do I can I dismiss this do I need to escalate this. And if I just have as each data to look at this, I might start off in my DNS log so I mentioned there's a log for DNS and this is a DNS related alert. Let me turn to my DNS log and I'm going to see the workstation or stations that I've seen recently that have tried to reach out and look up that host name, the DNS servers that respond into that which maybe is something internal maybe it's you know an external DNS server depending on how if I can block that from leading my network. I see the query itself, which in theory my ideas already told me so it's not really that big of a deal. But the big one here is the answer field and it's literally called answer as a field in your DNS log and it is the response that was provided to the client. So in this case, I know the client queried for this, this host name, I want to know what IP address they got back. A lot of times, even with good DNS logging, you know, set up if you have your DNS server set up to forward logs.  So the question that I'm asking myself right now is okay. I know that there was a DNS request leaving the network, but was there a connection that followed that to the IP address that was resolved. Maybe the, I had like an intrusion prevention system that stopped it. Maybe I got lucky and the attackers infrastructure was down and I just, you know, dodge that bullet. So I want to know if there was a connection, I want to know more about it. And let's say for the sake of this example, there was there was a connection. And so I can pivot from my DNS log to my con log look for connections that IP address, say that there were connections I want to see what ports there on when did they happen are they still happening. How many bytes were sent either way. So in particular is interesting because I want to know a little bit more about this, this communication. Let's say for the sake of this example that the communication to that server was on poor 80. Well, the more veterans of you might say poor 80s obviously HTTP I know that. But hang on, put your attacker hat on for a second and think about this. The attacker doesn't have to use the port that for its intended purpose. So just because they're on port 80 doesn't mean they're using HTTP. But one of the cool things he does is it has what's called dynamic protocol detection DPD. So I'll see in my con log a field called service that tells me the protocols identified Zeke knows, regardless of what port it's on, what's going on inside that connection and so it'll say yep, I know there's HTTP inside of here. I don't care that it's on poor 80 I mean obviously that's that would go what that do what we would expect, but Zeke tells me certainly this is has HTTP traffic. So I'm going to pivot now from my con log to my HTTP log to get more information. And how do I pivot between those two logs. I'm going to look at the connection unique identifier that you ID field remember that appears in every single log that has information about this connection. So I'm going to look to that you ID field and look to see if I have a matching HTTP log. And in there, I'm going to see things that relate to this connection things like user agent strings and cookie values get close parameters things that the browsers sense as part of that request. And also I did some response information and these are things that you'll hear the term indicator when I assume it's for an indicator of compromise. These are things that might help us figure out exactly what this is what malware strain we're dealing with and that's something that again, I might be able to go back to previous incidents and playbooks and community resources and say, Hey, what is this thing does anybody does anybody recognize this string that looks a little bit weird do I know what malware that's associated with. And so, if so, I might be able to handle this myself I might say, All right, cool. This is an incident that I know how to resolve I'm going to go ahead and quarantine you know keep that machine off the network. I'll contact the user will start an it ticket get a re-imaged and probably reset the user's password. But okay, I can handle it right. But I like being the worst case scenario person what happens if I don't know how to deal with this what happens if if I don't have any indicators that I can pull up and say I know what malware strain this is. Let's say, for the sake of this example, that this is a downloader. This is a piece of malware that kind of establishes, you know, a foothold on this compromise workstation. So it begins out to see to server and starts downloading additional malware and it's going to bring back tools things that might potentially left to the attacker but it's a foothold on this on this workstation or within this network. So I would see all these HDD connections and I would see mentions in my files log so I could pivot from the HTTP log to the files log using that connection ID again and say hey what files are being transferred here specifically I'm looking for so Zeke has the ability to extract md5, And so these checks are things that again can be an indicator of compromise another IOC that I can use and go back and say what is this what you know maybe I don't know what the downloader is but I can kind of know what these other tools are and I can start to understand what the capabilities of this are. I can also look around my network and see what other machines have seen those those hashes and maybe there's other machines that are part of this compromise that I'm just now discovering now. But let's let's say I don't know I like being the worst case scenario person let's say that the attacker gets a foothold on that machine and starts deleting evidence which you know putting my open socket on for a second. It's been known to happen. So let's say the attacker goes in and starts to clean up after themselves and I'm like well great all the information on that endpoint now that the evidence is getting erased. Well remember I talked about Zeke having file extraction so I can pull out those files as they go across the wire save them to disk.  So putting my worst case scenario head on again. If I say all right well the evidence has gone over there I still have these binaries that I can go back to and figure out exactly what they're capable of. If I have to escalate this and you know it's to 15 in the morning now and I have to call one of the senior members of my team to say yo this looks bad. You know I'm pretty sure this is an actual incident. Here are the things that I know so far I know the IP address that we're beginning out to I can tell you all the hosts that are talking to that host name of that IP address. I have some indicators that we can potentially write some IDS signatures for us we can catch this in the future. I have the show one and be five and shocked with six hatches that we can you know search the network and I can tell you what machines have this this malware associated with them so I figured out in the scope and I mean both in time and in the host associated with this. And if we have to bring in you know reverse engineers or you know malware analysis people they have those binaries they can start tearing through so even in the worst case scenario. I've got a lot of evidence here even without even without talking about anything on the end point at all. So I know I'd be labor this quite a bit but I think it's it's powerful to talk through kind of the question that you'll be asking yourself as you're going through something like an open sock exercise or a real world exercise. They're shockingly similar. And also to understand where you go in the Zeke data to add to understand those questions a little bit better. So there's many ways as I mentioned that the Zeke data can be represented. So here I have a screenshot of Plunk which is you know you can get a free version and type the data into Splunk and so sure that's a thing. You know, if there's one person we have a talk early run to run instead of the last several days using the elastic the Elk stack. You can feed this data into Kibana and look at it that way as well. But our tool of choice and open sock is going to be great log and so you should get comfortable with what this looks like in great log. So just start off with when you get access to the open sock environment and you go to great log you might look at end up looking at a screen like this that should you know we click on the screens. You're just going to get the stream of data. This is everything that's going across the network right now. It's a ton of data right. And so as you're looking through this. I want to talk to do a little bit about the great log interface but also will use it to kind of talk about what the Zeke data will look like. So to start off with you'll notice that I've typed a query into my great log window here that I am looking for Zeke data specifically I am asking great log to search for a field called event type. And I want you to tell me when that event type equals Zeke and so this is going to limit down the the events that are returned back to me as part of this. And so the other. Especially an open talk where like to be looking for an artifact. I can't find it. It's not here. I don't know where it is. It's because you probably have your search set to like the last five minutes. And if you're looking for something that happened several hours ago. Well yeah you're not going to see it. So I'm also going to turn down or turn up. I guess you could say my my search window to a larger window. Maybe I have a particular time span and I can input that. But right now I'm just kind of taking a casual stroll through the data. So with those things I'm just rolled down a little bit. And on the right hand side here you see the gray log events. And so these are Zeke events specifically. And you'll notice there's a lot of them. But each one of these is a Zeke log as a line in a Zeke log. It's giving me some information about communication that happened. And if I click on any given one of them you'll notice the event type is Zeke. That's why this was returned. And there's a lot of information here inside of this particular log entry. The first thing that you should look at the first thing I want to get familiar with is this file field. And so the file field tells me which type. In this particular case I'm looking at a MySQL log or my SQL log. So this is going to have information about a database transaction that occurred here. Now as you look down a little bit further you will see the message which is the line. This is that these are the individual fields of my SQL log. Now this one thing I'm going to come completely clean here. And some of the logs that you'll see, they're really parsed that cleanly. And so for something like this I have to kind of turn back to some of those cheat fees for that documentation to figure out like what does each field mean. Like I can see the first field of timestamp on the second field that starts with a C. That's my connection unique ID. So that's that's something I could pivot off of. I see some IP addresses and ports. I see my SQL query. Sometimes it's a little self explanatory, but refer to that documentation as needed. Let me give you another example here. So I'm scrolling down looking at another entry. Again, event type is Zeke that will be consistent. But instead now I'm looking at the con log. So this is that connection log. This is giving me information about a connection that occurred. I see the message down here that those fields, which will also notice all the fields have been broken out for me so I can see the connections date the destination IP. There's a building that tells me is that inside my network. And that's a Zeke variable that gets that I get to see, you know, the destination for the history field is actually a really interesting one. I don't have nearly enough time to dive into it, but it's really well documented and it tells you kind of the order of things that happened inside the communication. So there's a lot of things here and also you'll notice I could scroll down but I can also see it here in the message field that connection unique ID. So sure there's a connection here. All right. It's on port 80. Is it HTTP? Well, I see HTTP in my message there. And if I were to scroll down, I would see that as part of my service field. But I can look and search write a great log query to search for that connection unique ID and find all the information associated with this particular connection. So as we scroll down a little bit further. Oh, look, here's an HTTP log entry. And so this file here tells me I'm looking at the HTTP log. I get a little information from the client side. So it looks like this was a get request for the slash and kind of a group page. So I can see a little bit of information from the client. I can see a little bit of information from the server. So the server, if I assign it back to the 200, okay, which is perfectly normal. Right. But at least that's what I generally expect. And so all these fields again are broken out for me as I work my way through. One more log entry I want to talk about is the files log. So I mentioned that whenever we see a file transfer the example I use was HTTP but it actually works over SMB, SMTP, HTTP, FTP. I'm sure I'm forgetting many of them. But fundamentally if we can see a file transfer that's happening, we can pull that off the wire.  So, oh, this looks like it was an mp4 video. I get those hashes, those checksum values, which in the case of a video, maybe that's interesting or not. If it wasn't a Word document, that might be a lot more interesting. That might be something that would be a very interesting indicator to key off of. In some cases you'll see the file name in this particular case. This was part of an HTTP connection that it just wasn't provided in a header. We just couldn't extract it for one reason or another. But if we do get the opportunity to pull a file name off the wire, we'll happily do that. And there's one thing that I didn't have an arrow to on the slide and that as you'll notice just under the file name is the file unique ID and so similar to the connection unique ID that starts with a C the file unique ID starts with an F and that tells me that this is associated with a file transfer. So, there's a lot of data, I'm just getting you the highlights and I promise you're going to see some of those in some open socks scenarios later, not that you know, I want to spoil too much. I'll put these URLs in the discord chat as well also posted a PDF of these slides so you'll have these, but these are the two resources I would seem just to get comfortable with the data so the thing on the left is the PDF I like it because it's searchable. The thing on the right is the documentation from read the docs that does a much better job of going into more depth and has more logs that didn't really make the cut on the cheat sheet. So, I only have a few minutes left and I want to talk very briefly about the seek community in by all rights this would be Amber here talking about as a community director she would talk authoritatively about this and there's so much this going on now and on the roadmap but fundamentally the things that you should know about is head to seek.org slash connect so seek.org is the seek website they've got a YouTube channel they've got a Twitter account that's constantly posting and retweeting new packages and things that are relevant to current vulnerabilities and that are being now blowing up Twitter. So seek started a slack organization slack channel which discord. I'm working on it but slack is is the home of a lot of these really great conversations that you can have alongside the seek developers, the package developers, and they're really approachable community. That said, because it is such that it has such a long history to it. There are also some very good mailing lists that you should join as well. On the bottom left you see there are a lot of in person events obviously not happening at the moment, but keep an eye out if you hear seek hours each days. These are kind of local organization so you can kind of come and hang out for a happy hour and meet people. In fact, you can you can kind of help Amber organize your own if this is something that you want to bring to your area. I'll give you your her contact information she'll be eager to talk to you. Zeke week is actually an annual event that we do so it's it's all these these conversations about seek package development, things from like how are, how are, you know, blue teamers using this to defend themselves, all the way down to like the lowest internals of the the Zeke ecosystem. There are also now a lot of virtual events that are happening so if you check out the seek that are excited the Zeke Slack, you'll hear about a lot of online events that are happening things that are. There's Zeke from home there's asked the Zeke spurts which is where they bring a lot of experts and you can just be like hey I'm trying to install Zeke at home and I'm getting this error and they'll happily walk you through it. Super super approachable community. And to that end, I would encourage you to contribute to that community so a lot of folks, especially approaching open source think well hey I'm getting started or hey, you know, yeah I'm working on this blue team thing and I'm figuring this out but like, I don't know anything about development or, you know, well, anything about you know what seems like it would be needed here, and I wanted to spell that because there's so much. There's a lot of deals that are required to make this work so yes, you might be thinking in code you might be saying well I you know I'm not a good coder. Well, okay, what about looking into the user community and contributing to as your and as you're installing this and you're saying hey this documentation, you know I was a little bit unclear or hey I tried to do this, and this documentation didn't work for me. Let me fire off something on the mailing list and and say hey I have some suggestions. Let me try, you know, make some proposals to the documentation. Maybe you want to try your hand at scripting scripting is actually pretty approachable and there's so much that you can do in the Zika language. Things that are just very simple that are going to help you in your day today versus like hey, there's a protocol I just want to tear into whatever that might be. Many years just saying hey, I, you know, I don't know anything about Zeke yet. Where could I start download it get the get some of the latest releases and and give us an okay and say yep we tested out it worked help us test releases and get that feedback so there's so much that you can do and it's so tempting to think of this as like, I'm at the bottom of this ladder and I and I don't have the skills that I need to climb it and amber has this awesome metaphor about think of this is a lattice think about kind of charting diagonally think about kind of charting your own path and building your own skill set as your as you're contributing back to the community this goes for so many communities but I think for Zeke is especially true. So, there are a couple links that I threw down earlier the the the link to the Zeke documentation so if you're interested in deploying the locally probably something I would recommend putting on till after open stock because you're going to have a busy weekend, but you've got the link there again I'll post these in the future. Security onion a lot of you know, as as kind of the Cali for blue team as it's a Linux distribution has all these tools built into them, including Zeke. And so if you're interested in just having kind of a live environment, I wouldn't recommend it for like, you know, a full production environment, but for just getting your, your, your, your feet wet and understanding how this works together with these other tools security union is a fantastic starting point. I mentioned the the PDF so I've got the link to the PDF there and oh by the way there's this event that's happening called open stock. If you haven't joined the open stock or the open stock discord yet there's a lot that's happening there it starts tomorrow, but you can you can swing on by you can get registered and set up. Check out the DC 28 open stock CTF in the blue team village discord for more information about that. So with that said, I think I am pretty darn close to time here. I want to leave you with my contact info, so to a core like calm ambers are a Zeke community director, an incredible resource and just just constantly has these amazing plans for the Z community and and and helping it grow. So, if you are interested at all there's also a security Twitter account that I mentioned, there's a Zeke channel in that open stock discord so if you're not going to play even if you're not going to play open stock come join the Zeke channel, and I have the conversation there. Keep an eye out for a lot of these online events as I mentioned Zeke from home asked the Zeke experts there's a lot more on the way that I'm sure Amber could rattle off. And we're also doing not quite as cool as open stock I'll admit, but some community CTFs to help you learn the the Zeke environment. So with that said, I know I am pretty darn close to time. Did we have any questions from the from the chat. I'm going to scroll and kind of take a quick look here but if you have any I'm actually happy to have a conversation with folks afterwards. As I know we are pretty darn close hearing people ask about you know how hard is it to set up. I encourage you if you if you


What is going on guys welcome back to the channel critical overload here's talking about screen 5 again here today I just want to talk about as you saw in the thumbnail What if the motive for Ghostface this time around or two Ghostface Killers this time around will once again have to do with Fame and if that would just be you know too similar to screen 4 and because I've seen a lot of people Kind of dogging that narrative if we get another narrative in screen 5 related to you know I want to be famous and here's why They say that that's too similar to screen 4 and that would just be further cementing this as a glorified screen 4 remake my kind of thoughts on that is Why don't I see I don't see this come up with the original trilogy. I'll get into what I mean You're gonna tell me that if fame is brought up again in screen 5 That would be repetitive because it's just similar just too similar to screen 4 However, I could use the argument and I've talked to this with my friend of my Ryan over from screen podcast shout out to you You could I could use the argument that if you look at the original trilogy All of those three films the motive is the same and I mean by that as the meat and potatoes of it are essentially the same revenge They're all the same Billions well Billy not stew Billy wanted revenge against Sydney for what her mom had done breaking up his family Mrs. Loomis revenge once again for killing her son and Then Roman revenge once again because Sydney had the life that he felt he should have had and then I could also argue That with Roman we actually started getting that fame that sense of fame being desired right with him I could argue that screen 4 was repetitive of what Roman wanted because Roman his secondary motive was about I felt it was secondary anyway. He wanted to Have the fame that his long-lost sister had had acclaimed Something that he was not managing to get as a failing director at the time He wanted to make this real Hollywood love story. The studio was said they said they would let him He just had to direct the scary movie Staff 3 I'm assuming while researching this This is how he learned about the fame that Sydney had that jealousy grew even further and he wanted to accumulate fame as a Hollywood film director who had survived a massacre from Sydney press Scott that of course should draw him some attention and help him get a bigger name out there for himself when he makes His next film so the fame narrative was introduced with Roman if you want to go back and hear what he had to say Before they started having a little fight sequence as it relates to it happening again in screen 5 You have to ask yourself Even if they do that What is I guess what is wrong with that to some people if you ever probably I would like to know in the comment sections What is wrong with that because why was there nothing wrong with us getting countless narratives of revenge now? I know that with revenge That's just what we have all been kind of I guess conditioned into just kind of accepting as something Being more rational then. Hey, I want to be famous and I'm gonna do this And here's what I want to be famous for I just feels it just feels like them continuing the fame narrative for at least one more Go around and then transitioning back to the revenge tale would not be a bad thing to see I just don't I don't understand the mentality of you know, if they do the fame aspect again It's too similar to scream for well for one thing It's not too similar if the reason they want to be famous is completely different than what Jill wanted Jill literally wanted to have the attention as a final girl the same way Sidney had attention as a final girl Something she feels I guess Sidney did not deserve of course. That's what Jill wanted to be famous for and With the new set of killers Going off of the fact that they keep on honing on to us more recently with this total for magazine interview That there's a reason this is called scream and not scream 5 it just sounds like there's going to be a pairing of killers that within this universe Relating to the staff franchise this time around we know that from staff for an onward. They were doing their own thing So let's say that going off of how they're marketing this film with the whole Woodsboro Film Club On Facebook they invite us to a discord server Who's to say that within this universe? They don't have like an online forum somewhere or an online section of Like maybe a reddit page where people idolize the original killings Billy and stew are idolized and there's a lot of people that share their Conspiracy theories about missing connections to them others that think that there's something out there that needs to be discovered and talked About as it relates to the original killings and maybe that's what is motivating these killers Not only that maybe they have a hatred towards the Recent sequels that have been coming out since the events of staff or since the events of staff 3 and they feel that they need to go out There and recreate the original Woodsboro killings Just because they want to be famous for getting the staff franchise back to its roots Giving it a proper sequel giving you something that is connected to a discovery Related to the original killings as it relates to Sam Carpenter Whatever her secret may be and why they're targeting her and also with this new killing spree You could frame Sam Carpenter and then on top of that you now will get a stab film that you as the crazed killer Obsessed with your entitlement that this is what you were old as a fan of this franchise You're gonna get the proper sequel that you felt you always should have gotten and that's what you want to be famous for You want to be famous for reviving the staff franchise and finding a connection to the original woodsboro killings So, you know, that's just what it seems they're going with that just seems like that's the direction They're going to take the more we continue to find out with these new interviews and what the people involved with the project have to tell us So the whole thing with the fame motive happening again I don't think the issue is with the fame It is more so that I don't think people are considering that revenge was also the same old repetitive thing in that original trilogy But what made it different was everyone had a different reason for wanting revenge I think the fame angle could work as long as we continuously get angles and different reasons for why these people want to be famous What do you want to be famous for? What is it that's driving you? Why are you so up at the end of day? So insane What's making you crave this fame so much also on top of that if they continue the film franchise beyond screen 5 I have no doubt in my mind that we'll see the old Good old-fashioned as Debbie salt said mrs. Loomis the good old-fashioned revenge angle returned in the screen 6 screen 7 Maybe scream 8. I have no doubt in my mind that we'll just get revolving doors of those things That's all this franchise is just repetitive motives Rooted in revenge and now fame I guess but with different reasoning behind it But those are my thoughts on it I don't see the problem with fame being in it Maybe I'm missing something But let me know what you guys think about this down in the comment section below if you haven't already Of course, make sure you subscribe turn on postification and miss a video in the description I have links to my social media council on Facebook Twitter and Instagram you can message me there Of course, there's any movies news or reviews you like me to cover in the future and with all that in mind guys I will see you in the next video


Bingo four-clock rock. I'm Jay Fiedel having a good time here on think-tech on on Wednesday You know and Wednesday Wednesday and that voice way far away Table that's Sharon Moriwaki and the lady in between and the sandwich here is Chelsea harder Okay, and we were when when I heard that Chelsea gonna be here I named the show alone at last but then Sharon says Now I'm saying it's a now. I'm saying it's Maynard's To energy efficient energy awareness month Maynard's to energy Chelsea what we got in a lot moment today tell me everything so we're focusing on professional development for teachers To bring energy efficiency into the classrooms So we actually did a workshop in collaboration with kahe So Hawaii energy and kahe partnered to ask you say kahe kahe So they're a five-year program that is focusing on reducing the electric demand in the The DOE schools and they're also bringing in PV But they want to focus specifically on energy efficiency So we developed this curriculum a one-day free workshop for teachers at Honovai So it's a K through 6 school and what we're doing is giving them training showing them how to bring energy Efficiency into the classroom and also tools and one thing is that we really want to bring home for the kids is this home energy audit where the kids can involve their parents in In looking at what their energy usage is and how they can reduce it. Hey, yeah. Hey, yeah Home energy audit. Yeah, let's go with that Just try to be helpful right right so they are they're going to do that for the month of September just in time for October the energy awareness month so we So those that are particularly interested in energy efficiency are going to be entering a contest where they have to write an essay about How energy efficiency is important in their home? The winner will receive It's called a it's a home energy retrofit from Hawaii energy, so we'll go through look at their life Charge for them they'll get to switch their faucets to have low-flow and low-flow shower heads Switch their lighting all that good stuff. It's not only an audit They're going to actually make the changes right right for the winner for the one who writes the best essay Two things about young kids one is they listen and they're going to teach their parents They are talking to their parents their parents can't escape them Everybody gets involved Now this is the movie you made you know Chelsea is a star. I hope you still talk to us Chelsea is a star Marvin Hong made this movie, right? Yes. Okay. Let's see the movie. Well, I can hardly wait My name is Don Johnson. I was an environmental science teacher for six years For as far as I'm the education program manager for the coffee project About So one more time Kelsey what what is the spinning thing we just saw at the right? What is that? It's a flicker checker. So it can tell if if a ballast of a light bulb is magnetic or electronic So what's the difference between? Magnetic is the old-school one electronic is the is the newer more efficient one So they have different frequencies different wavelengths So sometimes the old magnetic one your eyes might get tired because they flicker but your brain will fill that in So and so the kids, you know try to fall would kind of fall asleep in the classroom But now we're switching over to Right, right, so our brain doesn't have to fill in that gap where it's you know one of the big policy points is frankly trying to get the public engaged and Until they get engaged, you know, we we're half a measure If we want to do you know may I use your term sharing transformational things We have to get them all engaged. There's no better way than by the kids. No better way, right This is a this is a big leverage thing that you're doing. They're fantastic champions in the home And if you know if we don't make those changes, they're gonna push us out of the way and make them for us All right, tell them tell them what the message you want to leave surely there is a message look at the little red camera there Oh, thank you It looks at you So I would love to say it, please look at your home and look at Hawaii energy calm and see how you can make energy efficiency This is decisions in your home. You can also call us And you'll find the number at Hawaii energy calm and we'd love to talk to you about it Okay, this is Jay Fidel reporting from Maynard's for energy awareness meme And when Sharon goes it's gonna be alone at last Thank you so much Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart Turner host of sustainable Hawaii. Thanks for watching think tech this summer We have a lot of terrific shows of great importance And I hope you'll watch my show too every Tuesday at noon as we address sustainability issues for Hawaii They're really pertinent as the World Conservation Congress approaches in September and the World Youth Congress That's focusing on sustainability next year as well Have a great summer and tune in at noon every Tuesday Aloha, I'm Carl Campania host of think tech Hawaii's movers shakers and reformers. I Hope you join us over the next several weeks as we take a deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii and Explore the alternative fuels supply chain necessary for the local and global transition towards transportation fuel sustainability Join us as we have good conversations with our farmers our producers our conversion technologies our Investors and our legislators as we try to achieve our transportation sustainability goals See you soon I pity the fool who ain't watching this show at 12 o'clock on Friday afternoon Stan the energy man watch it Hi, I'm Ethan Allen host of likeable science on think tech Hawaii I hope you'll join me each Friday afternoon as we explore the amazing world of science We bring on interesting guests scientists from all walks of life from all walks of science To talk about the work they do why they do it and more or why it's interesting to you What the science really means to your life? It's impacts on you how it's shaping the world around you and why you should care about it I do hope you'll join me every Friday at 2 p.m. For likeable science Hello, I'm Marianne Sasaki. Welcome to think tech Hawaii where some of the most interesting conversations in Honolulu go on I have a show on Wednesdays from one to two called life in the law where we discuss legal issues Politics governmental topics and a whole host of issues. I hope you'll join me Okay, we're back. We're live. We've met our fun and games with With the Chelsea hotter and Sharon Moriwaki now we're getting to the main part of the show here on Hawaii's state of clean energy And we're talking about energy efficiency with Derek Sonoda and my co-host on the far side of the table formidable also the host of Code green every Monday. How would we? Howard why don't you introduce the show? Okay? And for some odd reason I got picked to be the host because I like to think of myself as the energy Efficiency guy and so I will be having Superstars of efficiency throughout the month. I'll be introducing Derek Sonoda here this diminutive young man And then next week to me. Yes, I like that. That's good. Keep it going Howard the energy guy from Seattle and Seattle is the number one Efficient city in the nation then mr. Bissell from KI you see Kawaii utility Who is possibly the leading? Utility in the nation in achieving a hundred percent renewables clean energy and The wrap-up guy at the end of the month is Brian K. Aloha the new director of Hawaii energy And I think everybody is familiar with Hawaii Energy and we will be going gangbusters the whole month. That's a great lineup. No kidding. Nice work, Howard Yeah, you would have been the producer I had a little help from my friends or should I say strong suggestions? Well, let's let's begin with Derek. Why is Derek here? Derek is Mr. Energy efficiency in general and mr. Lighting efficiency in particular very very Distinguished career. He was one of the efficiency guys for Hawaiian Electric then he was one of the efficiency guys for Hawaii energy and Now get this title. I have to read it director of strategic initiatives For Pono solutions and Derek's going to tell us all about what Pono solutions is and we're in particular going to talk about lighting Efficiencies how to select a good lighting vendor good lighting product And I may have an opinion or two as we go along plus we've got a slide show Direct us along the way so Derek take it away and as you want the new slide just say can I have the next slide sure great So let's talk a little bit about this so I'm with a firm called Pono solutions and The reason why Pono selected myself and I selected Pono was they were trying to do something And I'm going to just say old school what they wanted to do was bring a lot of truth back into the lighting industry do it correctly and honor the customer and what the customer really wanted and The way energy efficiency starts off with for everyone is we start off with lighting because everyone understands light You flip a switch and the light comes on the unfortunate part about that is because it's so well understood this way People think it stops there especially on the commercial side And so Howard and I have been doing lighting for almost two decades now And we know that there's a lot more to just turning on a light a slight switch and you get your light You have to know what kind of light You have to know what kind of work is being done on the light You have to know a lot of different things and then we got a little bit sassy over the years where color rendition was really important Because we had the hospitality industry mean for mood for mood but you also set the ambiance with this thing and If you're not trained in this discipline It's easy to misunderstand what needs to be done And so we were constantly seeing the misunderstanding and what would happen is the customer would get energy efficiency But the poor things would have to do it again for one reason or another They got the wrong light in there or the installation wasn't correct for some reason It had to be redone and the taste coming out of the customers My opinion and others is it wasn't the best that it should be and so I Realigned myself with the lighting industry and some of the pillars of Hawaii's industries and we're very fortunate that the pillars of Hawaii Align with the pillars of the nation and we have a lot of good friends back in us up nationwide About how we can set Hawaii back on a path for really good lighting efficiencies Yeah, and we've been really proud about that. So one of the things that's the beginning to beginning when I was a small child Mm-hmm.  Don't play with the light switch Because she did yeah, well you might electrocute yourself my goodness say so that's one thing I just want to throw in the hopper the other thing want to throw in the hopper for you guys To consider is if you go to a hotel on On the mainland many many hotels have this or if you go to Europe most of them have it in Europe Take your room card. Okay, and after you enter the room you put it in the switch there Yeah, and and the lights in the room do not work Yeah, unless the room card is in that is in that little receptacle Okay, and it's this elegant because it means that if the light switch if you're not there The lights can't be on and my mother would be happy. Oh, yes There is one state in the nation that has built that Policy into its building code guess what state that is starts with an H New Hampshire. Yeah, it doesn't start with an H. It starts with an N We think alike Hawaii leads the nation in requiring this exactly. Oh, that right So we have a slide on how good lighting projects start So I don't know how we work the magic here, but if we could have that slide up on the screen We go really good. There it is. So we doing lighting questions today and I want to go to the next slide after this is how good lighting project starts We want to start with an education process information experience learning solutions It's basically knowledge and we have some great people who are really good in this discipline of lighting Howard is one of them and we have some other people out there You can ask me later email me and I will tell you who those people are and they what they do better is They will tell you the honest truth and then they they may or may not be able to help you with their product line But they will tell you the truth and that's something that I really proud of that these people will tell you Okay, this works the best in your applications. So if we can go to the second next slide You're going to switch out from whatever lighting technology you have to the newest and greatest LED lighting You will get energy savings, but what we don't know is what else? So you pick a product and here's the thing that's been just kind of out there everywhere is Here's the question. Yeah, there's a length of the warranty period match The length of the company's existence who've been producing all of this and it's really easy to say I'm going to give you a 10-year warranty. We're a two-year-old company and How can they say that and you can believe that I'm not too concerned with the two years in the past I'm concerned with the 10 years in the future. That's exactly right. Will they be there? That's a big question mark But to understand that is the very first step into making an informed decision And let me jump in and say that LEDs still have a wild west quality very much So we does that mean how we the all the companies that are jumping into the American market are not Thoroughly tested and vetted. There is a test procedure set up by the US Department of Energy Not all companies go through that jump through the hoops and show their results If they haven't done that Lord knows what you're gonna. So if I'm you know in the market here I'm a client or I'm you know, I'm a landowner or Homeowner and I want to do the right thing and I'm gonna avoid that wild west pitfall What do I do where do I look who do I call? I said what's your phone only kidding that Derek's gonna talk about that But simply put if you want to do that in your own verification because a lot of people do Just go to the companies what the manufacturer you're thinking about and find out when they started and find out when they Why is when they started relevant? You know, they could be well capitalized with smart management They could have the most, you know, highly technical guys in the world Yes, that that will tell me more than how long they've been in business You know, yeah, I don't think you can say if they've been in business two years, they can't do a warranty for 10 No, it's looking forward not backward.  Yeah, the company doesn't exist today. Yeah They didn't they didn't have to make an evaluation You have to make an evaluation and you put your own value is there an organization around that will rate them for me There is energy star, but energy star has limited rating capability capabilities And you're gonna have to go there and at least it's the first good start And their criteria have been getting harder and more stringent every year. So that's really good But a lot of people say well energy starts they don't rate everything So how can you use energy stuff? But it's the only thing we have one thing we have Do you know, I mean how high are the stakes really if I get if I get a Wild West company without a warranty And I get a company, you know that that's solid that's established that has the best of the best and gives me a warranty Am I right to say that the second company is going to charge me more? Here, let me put it this way You put it in your project in there and you get a 30% failure rate Let's say the 30% of the lamps well and lamps today for LEDs They're not inexpensive for these things on the commercial side So if you kind of just do that numbers in your head if you had a Let's say a half a million dollar project and you had 30% failure rate in the first two or three months It cost me some money. Well, not only that I mean, what are you thinking that the product is going to last you for the whole duration of the five ten years that you're planning for it The likelihood in your mind is questionable now what's going to happen. So you want to make the best Yeah, you get turned off you get really turned off because you don't know what you don't know What's real and who to believe so these questions are to spur the thought process Yeah, not to judge the spur the thought process and let the client the customer make an informed decision So we're going to go to the next slide This question over here has been going around What makes your lighting expert an expert in lighting? So sometimes you got to ask the question. What's your background because this person could be a really sharp sales person But if you ask him what you did five years ago and he tells you I was selling furniture Um, you may want to go. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, or ask him about furniture Or did you take any classes? Do you have any certifications? Did you go through a training background? Stop it. Just ask. What is this expertise going to do for you? I mean, it's a matter of him Uh, giving you good advice or is it a matter of him doing the right kind of installation or is it all of the above? Okay, all of the above So those are questions that people aren't asking So since I've moved over to porno solutions, I got a chance to Hear what customers are saying and they're not asking these questions But they should ask these questions because they might come out with a different outcome of who they select and what products that they put in there So what makes them an expert? I'll give you for example on that slide What makes a lighting expert not any experts? There are two bodies out there that rate products for safety One we all recognize called ul and another one called etl Everybody says to me. They're the same. It's not true. They're two independent laboratories And one follows the protocol of another for testing, but they're not the same. What's different What's different is they're independent. So I'll give you for example. Yeah Toyota and Lexus Same company. Did you know they have different design criteria for Lexus and for Toyota? They will design a Lexus to last x number of years I don't want to give the secret away and they will design a Toyota for something a little smaller than the x relaxus Two same things not equivalent The two cars when you drive them are different, but they are everybody goes, but it's under the Toyota umbrella Yes, it's under but not the same. So when you say not the same, which one is the better one ul It's going to be up to them. So here's the differentiator. How do I make my choice? Yeah for ul the process of waiting for this entity is a lot longer for manufacturers and they have to pay a lot more The process for etl is they don't charge as much to test your product And they have multiple laboratories all across china and the us so they can do a lot more throughput So as a customer If you feel you're comfortable with ul and stick by it, don't let anybody talk you difference So we have a lot of history in hawaii, and I don't want to make up people's minds for them But we have a lot of history that the ul one is tried and true Is the government involved here does the government say that ul is is like this nobody oversees them Okay. Yeah, so you have to read up you have to know yeah, and then there's other two Logos on that slide one is going to be is Illuminating engineering society both. Howard and I belong to that and how right what does this entity actually do for everyone? It promotes professionalism in lighting You put out many many many publications the ies handbook is now literally that thick with Specifications if you jay could memorize that handbook you'd be a millionaire The the world would be beating a path to your door, but nobody has ever Memorized that handbook. It's so intricate may I say the same for you if you yes. Yes. Yes, maybe you're already a million Anyway, so but the point is there is a body that's out there That's setting standards. Yeah that the question may be to your expert or do you belong to is and have you? Gone to some of the is training for seminars all kinds of training Lots of training so so this is something you want to look for in the person who you who you hire to either design or install Lighting absolutely. So there's another entity called nima and nima sets the quality standards for energy efficiency For manufacturers. Yeah, so a lot of products. They will have the nima logo, especially on for leds Um, we have it on the fluorescent tubes for ballast and then we have drivers for leds If you have this over there, you know, it's been tested and optimized for energy efficiency nima stems for National energy, I forget that's what efficiency manufacturers association didn't jules verne write about nima Yeah, it's a little bit different though. Yeah, and then they had a cousin called nemo Little bit different. We're on the energy show We are Okay, so all of those things are one of the other things is your experts you ask this thing So the people doing the installation. There's actually an entity Yeah, the teachers and certifies the installers to do just lighting So this entity over here is i'm going to pronounce it wrong because it's an acronym now namco NAL NAL mco They have a certification process for the people touching the light fixtures To make sure that they're installing it properly What do you have to do to get the certification? You have to study for the test. Yeah. Yeah, you have to do this It's an online thing and on the mainland. We don't have it here in hawaii yet We're working towards that with these group of people that we're aligned ourselves and to do some of the certificates Because what we've been seeing on the road You wouldn't want that in your house. So we want to do lighting installation training Okay, let's regroup and go back to that slide All these organizations were listed So we can just summarize This is where uh, there it is. Okay, so you want to look for ATL or UL and you're not you're not recommending here today, but you just got an old ask the difference Surmising that UL has been around a long time. That's a that's a factor and then uh, IES you just mentioned You want to make sure there's an IES? What you call person there person there information about lighting. Okay lighting. Yeah, and nima You want to make sure that there's the guys nimo sort of nima certified the products are Energy efficiency. Okay. Okay, so especially on yeah the ballast and the drivers for led products The driver is the weaker component everybody talks about the chip, but it's the driver that usually fails Okay, now the kind of company we're talking about that would have these various Certifications is what it's an energy efficiency company that you hire to come and do an audit of your house or your business We're talking for commercial. Yeah, so for example the company that I'm with porno solutions holds all the credentials Okay, there is one more that I want to make a mention to which is going to be for safety education So a lot of people say well, it's only lighting. You don't have to be all this training for safety But for lighting especially because people aren't um Fully aware of all there's a lot of shock hazards And we go through the training to really highlight how to be safe because it's not as highlighting for the employees It's for everyone around.  They're licensed Howard can tell us that you know, there's all kinds of government involved. I asked before about regulation This is definitely regulated. This is dangerous. This is very dangerous. So why why do we have to have Oh, this is if ma if ma is doing this. We know if we know if man. They've been promoting all of these things So 70e training. There's a 2005 edition. There's also lockout and tag out protocol training Which is very important The large commercial facilities have been hearing rumblings about all of these new standards And they're asking questions Unfortunate part about it is the people who are doing the labor work haven't heard too much about it yet So if ma hawai has been taking the journey up and coming they won the transformational Absolutely They've been pushing this so we want to get anybody who's doing lighting Get your people safe So the building owner or manager the company should be looking for that as well as the other ones you mentioned It now Howard if I told you that we had one minute to go on this show What would you say as co-hosts? What would you say extend the show? We haven't even gotten more Absolutely But lighting is your very first step into energy efficiency But when you do it not the best way Then you have a bad taste and you may not take step two Which is going to be looking at your air conditioning Yeah, air conditioning is another but lighting first everybody starts off hiding first There was an article in today this morning's paper where a construction guy was drilling into a wall He drilled into a live wire Filled down the ladder. He got in using very critical shape in hospital now Not from the shock but the fall. Uh, no the shock followed by the fall. Oh my god. It was a tremendous shock cardiac Oh, man day. Yeah Well, Howard, uh, but seriously if I told you we had you know half a minute to go What would you say to the people I would what would you say about Derek for example? Oh, he's a great guy I knew you'd say. Oh, thank you. Why don't you close the show?  I am Watch this watch this Howard's going to close the show and Derek is going to agree with everything that Howard has to say Derek's emphasis is that you don't go into the lighting field blind It is immensely complex you Derek and I have been in the field for ever and we don't claim to know everything If you're going to be purchasing lighting looking at different sources You really really need to check out who you are doing business with Because you may get a used car salesman who is now into the used lighting business Or worse a furniture salesman the jewelry guys really scare me You're going to be You're asking for trouble if you don't really check out who you're entering into contract with All right. Yes, no question. Derek. Yes, how much of what he said do you agree with? Howard speaks the truth We have to be careful with the lighting because if your first project or first step into energy efficiency doesn't produce great fruit Will the funders let you do a second step? That's Derek's a no that he knows how to handle a yes or no question That's Howard wig great co-host work.  I certainly just give me an invitation and all of that There you have it. Hawaii the state of clean energy here on a given Wednesday Derek Sonoda. Howard wig. Are we having fun?


Think Tech-A-Yay, civil engagement lives here. Aloha, my name is Matt Darnell with Comptile.Cloud. As always joined by Greg Jackson, also with one of my partners in crime at Comptile.Cloud. Today we're going to, as always, talk about some current events, but then Greg's going to go over some real things that people can do to help you manage your email box. That is one of the most significant points of stress for a business person, even for individuals that after lunch when you wake up in the morning and you get to work, all people think about driving to work without getting ready for work is what's going to be in my email box, in my email box, in the inbox. So we'll actually talk about some strategies for that. But first we'll talk about current events. This is something I found that really hit home for me and that I thought was something that I'd be able to use in my life and it's called Papa.com and it is kind of like Uber where you can rent a car, but you're actually renting a grandchild. So there are plans that you're able to do and they say you have to apply if you want to be one of their grandchildren, much like if you want to be drive for Uber or Lyft or those. So once you do that, once you join, you pay a monthly plan like say $15 a month or $30 a month and then if you need some compassion or fellowship or technical support, you pay by the hour after that and that's about $40 an hour. And for my mother-in-law, for me not to get the call of my printer's not working or because for $30 a month, you can interview and then you can request the same person to come back each time. That is the cheapest tech support that I've ever heard of. $40 a month per hour once they come, but I mean rent a grandchild, because she's in California, we're out here in Hawaii. So to me that's just, I mean that's taken that model. What? You don't have grandkids anymore. You're going to rent them. How far is it going to go? What else do we own today that we think you're going to rent and not like rent furniture where it's always in your house, but rent for a short time, airplanes, your house, that's like a hotel, but like for hours and we're not talking about a hotel stay, but it's like chairs at the beach, you know, you rent by the hour. Just this whole shift of I don't need to own it. I don't want to own it, whether it's grandkids or what, it's just amazing how the technology is coming forward with that. Experience as a service. Right, exactly. And depending on what you need, they have different people, if you need compassion or just someone to go shopping, you know, every week you want to go shopping with Susie or Ray or Johnny or Betty or they'll go shopping with you and take you and it's just amazing how, I mean, who would have thought renting a car, there are people that don't own cars, people rent bikes by the hour and they're not tourists, that's their mode of transportation. So it's just really this having that, you know, 30 years ago, a supercomputer in our hand, you know, be able to do those things, it's just amazing to me, but it's just the onward, more and more the trend of... Did you try it? No, not yet. So I want to interview them in person, so next time I go back, we'll actually sign up and try for a month or two, but she'll ask me, you know, she was cleaning the wires and nothing works anymore, but she'll probably turn off the power supply or the power strip or something, you know, and it's just impossible for me to troubleshoot that over the phone.  Anyway, so joinpapa.com if you want to become, you know, one of the people that go ahead and do that, so it's tech support on demand, it's all those things, you know, buy the hour. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about email. So last week we talked about how I had kind of really made a stab a couple of weeks ago at having a zero inbox policy. It didn't work, right? I'm back to my old habits. That was really tough, so let's talk about that. What are some concrete things that people can do to manage their inbox? I think one of the important things to understand is why we use email. So there's a few concepts. I don't want to talk to people. Well, that could very well be one of the reasons. And we see a lot of people walking around with headsets right now, and the message we give to people when we do that is I'm doing it because I don't want to interact with you. So what's interesting when you look at email, and I think the name probably doesn't do it any service, you're thinking it's like a letter, you're going to open it up, it's like a gift. It has this nice feeling when you get it. When you understand the purpose of email, it's a form of communication that we use. And that whole term is wrapped up in an enigma called expectations. What do I expect in terms of my interaction with email? There's no face typically that we're associating with that email. So it's very easy for us to kind of fire and forget. So how do you manage all of this information? And I think that really is the way we should be looking at it as information. Well, I was kidding when I said I don't want to talk to people, obviously. But one of my biggest pet peeves with email is I will get added to an email chain. And if you ask the person, it was an FYI to you. I don't need to know that. So there's so much of the communication is not necessary. So here's the tip for that. All right, so first tip, and this is great. So as you start thinking about the things that frustrate you about email, just shoot them at me. So on FYIs, you want to paraphrase and then recommend that they read the details below. That's one simple little trick. It's very easy to say FYI. It's even easier when you're on a phone because you don't want to have to sit there and type out a whole message. Easiest tip I can give somebody is before you say FYI, don't do it. If you're going to do it to yourself, that's fine. But just paraphrase. But this shouldn't be a real conversation, by the way, right? Somebody sending you some information. You've got to pass that information on. You don't regurgitate everything word for word.  What people end up doing is they write their whole email. It's to you, say, and they add in 50 people in the CC. There's an implied meaning to that. CC typically would mean if you're interested, here's the information. It doesn't mean there's an action. If you're in the CC, it's a non-actionable email. But people assume that because I CC'd you in on that email, when you CC'd me on, of the 50 that you sent me today, which were the three that I needed to know? Actionable. Exactly. And that's the problem people have. To me, that's the biggest problem. There's just so much information in your email inbox that it's like an avalanche. But three of the three, I get maybe three really important email. I get hundreds a day of all the, wake up in the morning and there's $50 an hour ready from the stuff coming from the mainland and I get three or four critical ones that I say, wow, I'm really glad they told me that. And when you have that hierarchy of communication, and I think it's inborn in me, I'm 50 years old, right? I mean, it's when the phone rings, thank you, when the phone rings, you answer it. That is someone's hoping you're going to answer the phone, right? So I can be, if I get an email and someone asks me a question, I don't answer it. Right? Unless it's two or three words. I mean, if I've got to look something up, but if someone was to call me and they catch me on the phone and they ask me that same question, I'm going to look it up, if it's a minute, look up some contract or look up some spec or how many things do we need for this and that, you look at it right there and I'll answer the phone. But an email comes, I'm not going to immediately answer that. So there's that implied, that email is on the bottom, right? And top I think is phone calls, and for me, but for my kids, it's the text message, right? I mean, I'll call my son and he goes, he'll ask me, why didn't you text me? I said, because I'm your father, I know I pay for your phone, I don't have to text you, you better answer the phone when I call. So is that the right place? Can an email be on the bottom? Because that's the nice thing is, I can ask you a very complicated question and I'm assuming that you're going to research that immediately and get back to me when you can. But then- As a good friend told me, expectations and assuming, they often time lead to problems and agreement is really a good place to start. You've heard of the golden rule, right? Treat others the way you want to be treated and then if you heard the platinum rule, it's a little bit worn out by now, but treat others the way they want to be treated. So what's interesting is when you talk about your experience with your son is there are a lot of people out there that can communicate more effectively on their own terms. The problem is we don't know exactly how, we can't say exactly how everyone should behave or how everyone does behave because it becomes very customized at that point. But there are some customers that I deal with that would rather text and they're either in meetings all the time or they've got patients in front of them. So I have to remember that that's the way that they want to be communicated with. And with email, I mean there's the, like I've never, people don't know this, everybody knows you can mark a message urgent, but you can also mark it as like normal and urgent. There's also one below that. What? Yeah, exactly. I don't think I've ever got an email. I forget what it's called. Don't bother. No, but there's, but there is, you can go urgent, normal or there's something else. Like yeah, that doesn't matter, but there's no way to judge the critical importance of it, right? And you're looking at, oh, I got 30, 30, 30 new emails because I was at a meeting. It's hard to pick the gold out of there and say, which are the ones that I need to. And I still, we still have clients that they don't have, the boss does not have a computer on their desk. Right. Their secretaries read all their emails. The secretary prints it off. He looks at them. He does the ones that the boss wants. He marks them up, highlights the part and hands it that way. And there's a lot of wisdom in having someone do that for you, that all of the junk, all the things that need to be handled. I had a friend tell me that he interviewed someone that went to an Ivy League school and he was trying to place him for a job. And they had problems placing him for a job because he used, I believe, Airbnb as his home. And I believe he used a virtual assistant to scan all of his physical mail in and to read his email. So what you're talking about is exactly right.  It'd be interesting, right? They'll prioritize your work for you. They'll, I mean, that's why you have call centers going from in-state to being outsourced. It's because if I come up with a rule or a process and I shove everything through that process, it's not the best experience for the customer, but you're a lot more efficient. And that's another key part.  So when you get a response like you do from your son saying, why didn't you text me, for you, it's probably not nearly as effective to be able to communicate with your son that way. But for him, that's the way he wants to be communicated with. And I wish there was a way that we can all just agree on it, but it isn't going to happen. So I've got a few rules for you. So let's hold that till after the break. Yeah, but it is tough because, and we'll talk about spam. And one of the main things I did was I really went through, I looked at each email, and I would get a list I signed up for four or five years ago. And I would just ignore it, and I would just delete it. But yeah, so a lot of tips on getting your email down. So again, my name is Matt Darnell with console.cloud. We're here supporting your tech. We'll be right back after the break. Hello, I'm Dave Stevens, host of the Cyber Underground. This is where we discuss everything that relates to computers that's just going to scare you out of your mind. So come join us every week here on thinktecawaii.com, 1pm on Friday afternoons, and then you can go see all our episodes on YouTube. Just look up the Cyber Underground on YouTube. All our shows will show up. And please follow us. We're always giving you current, relevant information to protect you. Keeping you safe. Aloha. Aloha, my name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of thinktecawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea is on thinktecawaii every other Monday at 11am. Please join me, where my guests talk about law topics and ideas and music and Hawaiiana all across the sea from Hawaii and back again. Aloha. Welcome back again, Matt Darnell with console.cloud, joined by Greg Jackson with console.cloud. Before we get into your top three tips, tell me about your, I see you're supporting a new phone there. Tell me all about your phone. Where's your phone? Oh, my phone's over here, over here. Yeah, put your phone down. And what phone do you have? I have a Note 8. What do you think I have? I think you have a Note 8. Yeah, that's the problem. OK. That's a Note 9. You have a Note 9? Yeah. Oh, interesting. OK. And you know what? I don't really know it. So, and this is something that we probably should have a show on. First was, it was painful to transfer over. And it's because I'm really, I just use it. And I see commercials, you set the cable up, and it just happens. It's simple. Yeah, it's simple. Yeah. I literally had, I'm just going to say the vendor, I have Sprint and I asked them, just for fun, they said, would you like somebody to help you transition? I go, sure, that'd be great. OK, would you like to schedule it? I said, yeah, I'll schedule it. They give you some. Is this online or is this like in a stock? Yeah, online. I ordered it. They schedule it for 6.30 PM Hawaii time. OK. The guy calls me up and he says, hey, look, we're about ready to close. Let me go ahead and walk you through the process. And he says, go to the help, the chat window for Sprint. And then, are you there? Great. All right, thanks for calling. Ask him any questions you have. That was crazy. But I don't really see much of a difference. I did picture comparisons. You know, it doesn't move a little snappier if I spend a lot of time on PUBG or Fortnite. Maybe I might see a little bit. What's PUBG? No, what's Fortnite? OK. So I'm not impressed. My son desperately wants them because you get a special Fortnite skin. You can, yeah. Apparently with that. So he desperately has a note 8 as well. And I said, well, we'll see. Because I went from the note 4 to the note 8. And that was a real big jump. But the stylus is supposed to have a Bluetooth component to it so you can use it as a click the picture. It's a side dish. Yeah. OK, so there you got your phone. Note 9. And that's what the reviews were. It's a very small incremental upgrade to the note 8. Memory is three times as much. That's good. Maybe more. It's just there's still a slot for it. Yep, a card. Same spot. I mean, I'm using my old phone case. So really? Yeah, I mean, I just had to adjust a little bit. The buttons don't line up. But everything's in the same spot. I don't do it. All right. Greg Jackson. Yeah. Number one email tip that we want to give to people. All right, so I have an acronym. We're going to mop this thing up. That's the acronym, MOP. You want to minimize, organize, prioritize. And all that. You write that down. Minimize, organize, and prioritize. There's some techniques in doing that. All this is contingent on your culture. How you manage email at your house is not the way you're going to manage email at work. But to the hard part, with what you just said, is there's three cultures involved. Four cultures. Four cultures involved, right? There's my culture. There's the culture of my company. There's the person I'm talking to's culture. And the culture of their company. So me, as just firing off an email or receiving an email, it's very difficult for me to know what they expect. Yes. And there are people that mark everything. That's their culture. And in my culture, that just means it's like, if someone yells at you, the first couple of times you're going to react. But if every time they communicate with you, they're just screaming and yelling, just tune it out. So that culture is such a hard, especially when they're one or two off communications. And then you're moving on to the next project. So it can be a challenge. So as soon as you understand the culture, ideally, and we'll talk a little bit more about what minimize, organize, and prioritize means. But what you really want to try to accomplish is getting through your email. And I mentioned this last show.  No one gets a pat on the back. You're not going to, hey, man, you really process email. And one study I did, I had several employees. We worked on a team. We talked about where we had an app that would tell everybody where they're at. There were technicians, right? Hey, I'm at this location. I'm working on this ticket. And that gives us an idea of how long these tickets took to process.  And what we found through the study, because we participated as a team, if you look at your outbox, there's an average of three minutes. This is not necessarily applies to you. It depends on the culture. But on average, we found three minutes. If you take three minutes and times it by the number of outbound emails that you sent and your sent items, that's how much time you're spending on email. Think about that for a second. Now, I would get 75 actionable emails a day. This was 10 years ago. I don't think it's getting any better. So if you're getting 100, 200 emails a day, how many of those are actionable? If you've got 75 actionable, what are you doing with those? So what are the actions that we can take to minimize email? Well, we can do some of the things that you said. We can talk on the phone.  Things not to do in your email. Don't make your emails long. And don't include too much emotion in them. I can't stress that. That's the fun in not including emotion in them. Because it's expectations. When you capitalize your letters, are you trying to yell at me? Seriously, that's all caps. Hey, you know, that works one time, but you know. When I said, how's it going? Exclamation, exclamation, exclamation. I wasn't angry at you. I was excited for you. And that whole translation can get lost. So first thing, minimize. How do you minimize it? I've got do delegate, drag, and delete. You're going to do something with it. You're going to drag it to your calendar. You're going to delete it. Or you're going to give it to somebody or someplace. A lot of things, we've got alarms through our emails. We've got to delegate that. Maybe it goes into our ticketing system. But we've got to get it off our plate. How quickly can you do it? If it's something that creates a lot of time, that moves into the organize, right? So now you want to organize your email. We want to have buckets. And we have call centers. They used to be called call centers. We're a visa or a bank or insurance company. And they used to only do phone calls. But now they do emails and chats as well. And you get statistics of just how long did a phone call take to get an answer? How long were they on the call? From the time when you send an email, it just goes in line like if you would have called at that moment. So if it were taking you 10 minutes on hold on the phone, 10 minutes after you send that email pops up on an agent's computer and it tracks how long we have the email open. And I imagine, are there plugins for Outlook? Good question, I don't know. I would think that would be something that would be good to know, good to track. How long do I? Sometimes I have email just sitting there and I never get to it because I know that one's going to take time. Well, and that's true. And I keep it open. I've never drug an email to the calendar. I don't even know how you would do that. You literally click and drag it and it just opens up a calendar invite and I just set a date. You can do the tasks too. The calendar events at the bottom. We are talking about Microsoft Outlook. Outlook, yes. Why would we talk about anything else? Is there anything else? But okay, so, and then and I, and it's okay, so, all right. So delegate, do it, or give it to somebody, drag it to the calendar. The calendar schedule, or just delete it.  But then, if you open any leadership book, telling somebody to do something is 3% of it getting done, you know? And so that's the hard part. That's my fear, that something important I want someone to do, it would be nice. Again, this is where we need the computer to help us. If I shoot an email, I say, Lisa, take care of this, okay? And I never get a reply back, or there's never an email back with that, in that context, not exact, but in that context. Outlook should tell me, hey, did, I don't know if Lisa, if she, you never heard back from Lisa on this. Now maybe I just dismiss it because she talked to me about it or that, but yeah, I wish there was more technology help with that. See, you like communicating. What you're discussing is a feedback loop. Texting, no feedback loop. Email, no feedback loop. I hear you, that's a big problem. I mean, let me ask you this question, because one of the things you can do, I can ask for a delivered receipt and a red receipt. Yeah, I can ignore those. Do you send the red receipt back? I don't, if you're asking me to do more clicks, I'm sighing. Well, you can have it automatically. I have Outlook program not to ignore them. So it doesn't, it won't send a red receipt. But anyway, okay, so that's my hard part with the delegation part is, how do you track it? And I think that goes with any part of the business, but if I'm scared, oh, Lisa do this one, Pat's gonna do this one, Marc's gonna do this one, it's at the end of the day, it's like, man, how do I keep track of everything I asked everybody to do? It's easier to do it myself. There's so many things where I say, then I know it's done, I don't have to think about it. You have clinically defined a small business owner, Matt. Okay. And that's why we're having this show. All right. Delegation's hard. Well, clinically I am a small business owner. Technically, actually. You are, and that's great, because you're speaking for all the people that are probably watching our show. So, yes, did it? Both of them. Yes. You and me. You and I are. Yes, both. Delegation is really, really important. If you get nervous about what's happening with it, one thing that I do is I blind-carbon copy myself, it comes in my e-mail, and I click and drag it as a reminder to follow up. So, sometimes I gotta delegate, delegate slash defer, I mean, I delegate, I don't have anybody that answers to me, but I might defer it, right? Part of organization is, but let's stay on M for another second, because I think that the M, with the minimize, I have the spam filter you can set at different levels. And one thing that I'm very afraid of, I would rather get a hundred spam messages than have what's called, we call it false positive, meaning it's a real e-mail, but they mentioned something that's not allowed, and then it goes to spam, but it's a real e-mail. So, I have my spam filter set very low, meaning let most things come through, and I still, about every month or so, I go through my spam, and then I look for that. That, again, I wanna return people's communications. And with that, I unsubscribe, I block people, and do those. So, I think the minimize is just, look at the e-mail as you're getting, and the people that constantly, you wanna buy a list of businesses with this, or how's your credit, or how do you wanna do this, or those kind of things. And I usually just block the sender and block the domain.  Okay, so in our mop, we got to M here. So, next week, next show, we'll talk about O, and then maybe we'll even get to P, who knows. So, again, my name is Matt Darnell, with Supporting Your Tech. Thank you, Greg, as always. You're welcome. Very good advice. So, hopefully you got something good out of that. If you have any questions, we monitor the video, so definitely put those down in the comments. Allah have a great day.