So let's start the last session of the day, which has a bit of broader purpose. And our topic now is financial decision making on the internet. My name is Andrea Recher and I have the Financial Desk of Suddeutsche Zeitung, National Director of the Newspaker. And until 2014, I was at the Rötschinkopf, Suddeutsche Zeitung in Frankfurt, reporting from the heart of the financial hub in Germany. So, two of our panel speakers you have already seen and heard. One is Lars, who jumped in for Klaus Ludwig from the BMF from the Financial Ministry, and he will cover the regulations part. Thank you very much, so shortly. And you already know, Deepin, of course, you have heard the last couple of minutes there. And I've got two new panelists here with me. One is Florian, he is one of the founder of Scalable Capital, a roguer advisor here from Munich. He studied in Vienna and has worked for more than eight years I think, in London and in York for a good one time. And in an interview, one of the founders said that Scalable is going for a great thing, and I'm curious to hear more about that big thing. Daniel, to my left, is the lead councillor at Reisen. Also FinTech, some of you might know it with their brand Welch Farm. It's an online market that's a term to process worldwide. And before joining the Berlin-based FinTech, Daniel worked for a well-known law company, he's one of them's head and mirror in the industry. He earned his law degree in Kassau and was a visiting researcher at Harvard as well. Okay. If you talk in German about financial decision-making, there's no way not to refer to Andre Castellani, some of you might already know him. He died in 1999, but many, many people know his flaws still today. And there's one point I want to start this debate with, which is in stock markets, in stock markets is often the gut feeling that tells you what to do. It's the brain that tells you what to avoid. So the gut feeling versus the brain was a brand line for a long time. In the old world, the traders were shouting at each other on the trading floors. Today, you can hear stock exchanges maximum, a small hum of computers. But the financial markets have changed a lot. So, Lars, I'd like to ask you the first question. Would you agree that the line has shifted from gut feeling versus brain to human work versus machines? Okay, I guess in some areas of the market, for instance, if you think about high-frequency trading or something like that, I think there's simply no way that you can outperform a machine as compared to a human being. I guess on the other hand what also happened was like my personal gut feeling is that the markets, as they have moved in the past, although not what that's predictable, has a lot of policy changes that have moved in and everything became much more riskier. And so your gut feeling might not be developed anymore as it was in the past. Their market markets are less influenced by big policy growth. Ethan, when I listened to your presentation, I was asking myself if people who invest in crowd-investing, do they even take financial decisions or is it more emotion or the pure gut feeling? So I think that's a really good question. We actually don't know enough about the micro foundations about why people are making decisions they do. So it's unclear whether in some ways it's about gut decisions aggregated out over time or better or whether it's the fact that some people work on guts and some people work on numbers and it kind of comes together. I think the important qualification is that we know that a human should be making large scale financial decisions, but we still aren't very good at computerizing early stage investments. So there's still a lot of gut in that and I don't necessarily think taking that all out at this point is valuable. Let's continue, Daniel. Raisin is a fintech that promises to raise your interest rate, which is a very good idea in that area of low interest rates. But can you maybe dig into that a little bit more how that technology you use does help in financial decision making? When comes the technology in your fintech? So basically as you explained, we're a neutral platform making possible products from banks across Europe to customers across Europe, so it is a German customer to buy a Spanish or a Swedish product. So we're a neutral platform, which means we don't want to influence the customer's decisions in a substantive way, but what we do want to do is actually get the customer to take a decision at all to overcome the natural inertia of customers to procrastinate in terms of financial decision making, and that's where our technology really comes in. So this means, first of all, architects of marketing technology use a lot of technology to optimize the circumstances and the way at the point in time when you approach the customer to actually increase and maximize their likelihood to take the decision to actually talk and think about their finances now. So that's where a lot of our IT intelligence goes into. And the second part I guess is as much IT as maybe process and legal innovation is wanting to make it as simple as possible for the customer to actually conclude the contract and get the product that he wants to and eliminate all the steps in between, eliminate all the paperwork so that in the ideal world the customer has an attention to now buy a positive product and buy from the sector to start it, and that's where we've got the time to do use a lot of legal tech and other innovation. Great. Scalable is a robo-advisor. Can you explain a little bit of your technology, what's behind your decision making process? Yeah, our product is quite different from Daniel's business. Daniel's word is about fixed income and you basically compare different interest rates. We invest on the half of our clients into the capital market so it's about uncertainty like in the crowd investing space and what we realized in our careers in the financial service industry was that a lot of people don't want to make decisions when it's about their investments, when it's about their retirement savings so we build an investment manager and an investment manager is making decisions on your behalf. You only have to decide on two things, how much do you want to give us and how shall we invest it with how much risk in our case. Once you make those two decisions we make all the little decisions along the way for you so we pick the right instruments we do the portfolio reallocations not just once but over time when the market changes, your circumstances change over time and we make all these decisions for you along the way and technology we use in several places we help you with technology with the first two decisions so how much shall you invest with us and how much risk shall you take depending on your personal circumstances where we employ technology and calibrate our models versus the crowd in some way because we collected a lot of data already and based on the decisions the clients made we can give better recommendations for future clients and also for existing clients and once you are a client you use technology to invest your money in an efficient way for you. You also use kind of the crowd. We use the crowd to refine our... I mean our crowd is our clients and we can make use of the data we gather from interaction of our clients with our platform and so when clients go through there are billions or more combinations how you can go through our onboarding survey and then clients make those two decisions in the end how much risk they take and how much they invest with us and even those two decisions sound quite simple but they are big decisions if you are talking about half of your savings and we help our clients by mining the data we gather from our clients and map it versus the decisions they made already. How important is artificial intelligence in your field? I mean it's a buzzword but it's about that... it's about calibrating models and running regressions but we don't use it heavily like in the investing part of our product but we use it to make our applications smarter this is where we use it like how you interact how often do you want to... we have a product where we invest in the capital market and the securities move every second and you could inform your clients every other second that your portfolio is now up 0.3% like down again and what we now do is we basically analyze the patterns and how often we look into the app to calibrate how often we notify them about performance in the portfolio so we do not annoy them but provide them with a reasonable level of notifications I have a separate question I'll ask later if you look at the financial markets and the financial market and the decision-making processes what do you think has changed if you compare the view of a private customer 10 years ago maybe and today what do you describe that change? I think just the comment and what you are asking I think they are kind of related if you are saying that you have technology or intelligence when you actually inform your customers about when they should make the decision I think it's more like knowledge guidance or something I think probably you can also calibrate it and say I want to look at this every five minutes or every five days or something so it feels like you have to still make the same decisions and also in the end I am always wondering how much intelligence is actually in there of course as you all know it's pretty difficult to beat the market on the long run and then if you say you probably couldn't make for a spreadsheet transparent you can do that everyone could easily replicate it so it must be somehow hidden and then I am wondering what strategy would be that is beating the market all along the period whether it's like I think in the early days of the role advisors simply buying ETFs and so if you just can do this by yourself as an investor so you actually saving the transaction costs you would have by investing in a role advisor so of course asking people in finance when I meet them in the category how long do you think before the median job in your field is replaced by a robot right so not the best it's always room for the best but sort of the middle level here so I think that it becomes a question of on the high end self-evolving strategies that happen faster and in the low end you're not supposed to do anything right the more effective you can make doing nothing the better the duty that you do is doing nothing part is a very important thing so the algorithm and role advisor is not just about the investing part obviously we employ a lot of technology and smart people from academia from the industry to refine our models and refining our models is about I mean there are 1500 different index funds available in Europe how do you pick the right ones and do you want to do that yourself every other quarter because the prices are changing all the time there are new players coming into the market do you want to manage your portfolio yourself and the answer of our clients and 95% of the population is no they don't want to do it themselves I managed portfolios of ETFs for my siblings and my parents and it's a lot of work in the end it's not about like you invest once but you have to rebalance things change the tax environment changes you have to adapt and most people don't want to do it often they can't do it because they don't have the expertise or knowledge but most people just can't be bothered taking care of it themselves and they have their periods of motivation where they look into this and then they don't touch the portfolio for years and maybe it's like completely off balance so robot wise much more than investment model it's all like how you get the portfolio if you have access cash how quickly can you deploy it if you are with us and you have whatever you've got a bonus and you have like 5000 euros to invest if you do it yourself you have to invest in 4-5 different ETFs talk about ice in thin tanned pins you have to enter everywhere with us you tap enter the number of 5000 go and it's invested it's just a different experience than doing it yourself with any of your customers do you have a different strategy if they work with you I guess our customers probably the demographic would be similar but the investment is very different and we're part of the product so the most secure and simple product there's no fancy stuff in there so as I mentioned the innovation is really making investment for them as possible to trust I mean our customers are 55 years on average 75% male above average education but they tend to look at details they're not like impulse driven they read the stuff they make astonishingly rational decisions so they're not going for the high interest rate all the time they actually see that the country rating is higher in the deposits if you prepared cross border so they they can be bothered to some extent to go through the features and they're doing it but yet making it as simple as possible is a huge success factor but it's the customer who takes all the decisions where you take the decisions for you in the case of because we invest into the capital but what is somewhat similar similar across the two platforms this is fixed income like deposits and we are in the capital market but what is similar you need to make it as simple as possible for those people who want to do it themselves there are tools out there the innovation happened in brokerage since 50 to 20 years there are brokerage firms out there where you can invest very easily for very low commissions if you want to do it yourself but most people can't and don't want to do it themselves there you need platforms who help them in Reisen's case it's about not opening not having to open the bank accounts with banks all over Europe in some areas you can't even open it cross border yourself but even if you don't want to do it yourself and in our case it's about not making those investment decisions all the time you give us a mandate it's like Uber is your private driver and we are your private investment manager our service previously has only been accessible for very rich people investment management is not a new business but having someone who takes care of your portfolio without you being involved in the past was something where the entry hurdle was at a million dollars and that changed this technology I would say that they want to keep it simple I always wonder if it's really easier than years ago to take financial decisions because there's just so so many options on the table there's crowdfunding there you both two of you we've got the whole range of contacts on the one hand and the other hand so what's your take on that do you think it's easier for the customers I think not at all I mean for us like if you look into particular products for instance if you look into the crowd investing contracts nowadays I think it took us a couple of hours probably to figure out what the share actually is you are actually buying what your participation rights are probably the upper side to understand this financial contract and I think for a regular user or investor of these products it's not at all easier for a simple product like a stock or something that would have been probably a much easier decision because it's much easier to understand in the end and I think for other products that is probably equally valid a little anecdote because we were raised struck by the fact that our products being listed it should remind us what that effect had actually in our inflows and we would have thought our customers are online sadly they go through the details they Google stock but the printed access paper is actually the magazine is actually one of the most important drivers in inflows it's still partly extended out in the graphics of course I think within each side or it's about the platforms to navigate complexity Kickstarter needs to crack navigating the complexity crowdfunding in another platform and platforms are phrasing we need to navigate it in the postage and we do it in our space but one thing and this is really a problem we hear more and more often from our clients is about your overall asset allocation this is an answer we don't give right now and we don't help our clients with how much you go into buying a house here in Munich and how much should be a deposit and how much should be with scalable capital and how much shall I put into a crowdfunding project or whatever so this financial planning hasn't been that automated yet and there are some businesses moving into that direction to have a product agnostic financial planning in a digital way we want to really focus about what we are good in and that's like the investment management part in the liquid capital markets we are not the best we don't have expertise in real estate investing it's just not our expertise financial planning has the complexity that you have to know a little bit about everything the question is how good are you especially about the customers everything plays a role like how many children are there so there was a great survey I read a five US Nobel Prize winners in economics a couple years ago of which three did not properly contribute everything they should be in the United States even though they should do this I think you are overestimating the complexity before and how much the default option was no choice and I think the other thing is a lot of things we are talking about help wealthy individuals or move the barrier down so it used to be really nice to do this but there are still a large number of people who all of this is too complicated and that is I think a future challenge we are talking about investing is so complex and it is getting even more complex every day there is a big need for drawn consumer protection do you think here as a panelist that consumer protection when it comes to those new fintechs is in a good shape do we need more much I would say it is a love and hate relationship so of course our customers are consumers we want to be as transparent and as reliable as possible so we want to comply with any consumer protection laws there are out there on the other side we do see for example data protection agencies who are not aware of what is going on out there so we get a data protection complaint from the Belinda data protection officer that the thing we did so what we did is we sent the pre-filled application form as a PF document her unencrypted email to the customer which is something we need to do by nature of consumer protection laws they had data protection in mind they said it is unencrypted you cannot do it even if the customer consents to it so this shows that they are far away sometimes from what is going on in practice and even once but the legal obligations are in this particular case they took a long test they had a hard time at the beginning to actually embrace all products because it was somehow online Bulgarian banks were somehow involved and it is not entirely clear so they set up a list of criteria which was fulfilled and then they told us there is a subset or an additional set of secret criteria which we didn't fulfill so we said guys this is not how it works either we comply with those criteria and in the end we convinced them as I mentioned it is extremely important and Shetumat has just taken an example again being on there is extremely important so it's not clear and so I had my first chance at really I don't know if there is a German opponent in Russia but I have seen the saw such made in the United States watching the crowdfunding laws because I talked to the SEC on a couple of occasions and it was just interesting because the problem is that there is a natural conflict between letting people do stuff that increases risk even in crowdfunding and the more restricted you put out the less useful these crowd based institutions work so the SEC had a very different set of requirements than congress did and I think the SEC won more than as a result of two years to make the rules I think they were restricted enough that we're not seeing stuff happen now on the other hand could there be a lot more fraud I mean it's hard to imagine that you can you limit losses and allow experimentation becomes the real question and at least I don't know again I don't know German law but in the US there is a accredited investor criteria which is if you earn over a certain amount a year you're just considered to be smart about finances and most things don't apply and you do stupid things but you know so the question is just how do you set up these criteria regulations are definitely needed because exploitation always happens but you know is there a way to limit losses and allow but still allow innovation to happen because limiting all losses means nothing occurs I mean in our space we have to segment regulation in various things like the KYC and anti-money laundering and this applies to all of us and here it's sometimes a bit difficult to kind of reinvent the rules which has been designed for like offline processes with signatures and going to a branch office to bring them to the online world without making it more easy for crime to exploit the rules product itself we actually the regulators have been quite supportive for what we do because they like how how the technology makes the process a clear audit trail for everything it's more standardized like people sitting in front of the screen and going through a survey it's a more neutral place than being in the back room of a bank branch and someone like really pushing you into a specific product like they like it and they like how transparent everything is how they can also audit these things and look about our questions and the answers clients gave and what we actually recommended there's like a clear link between what the customer wants and what we actually offer so in that space they were actually quite supportive but the biggest difficulty is just to the pace of innovation and like the pace of regulation to keep up with that there's also been some kind of regulatory competition if you look at the London regulations they have put a sandbox for FinTechs, do you think that's a good idea? Canada, Germany having applied for because we have we have two subsidiaries one in Germany and one in the UK and they both have run the same business investment management one for the German market UK market and we didn't go for a passport but we really have a license in both markets and that we kicked it off at the same time and even though in Bundesbank they don't talk about FinTechs, sandboxing and like I'm not very present on all the conferences like they were twice as fast in processing our license and giving us a permit to conduct our investment management service in the German market and in the UK hopefully the FCA is not listening okay so there is a competition and some try to run the others but is that a good thing? I think we cannot tell yet because we don't know how the startups performed it when it's a sandbox regulation as compared to other startups but I mean if you think about it who are the startups who are actually moving in there so it's probably these startups who have not enough capital or resources to comply with the regulation who don't want to throw that fast and I'm thinking like whether you don't have a negative selection having a sandbox approach because if you are a fast growing startup who has enough VC capital or whatever I mean they would go right for the real thing and not like have a contract they have to change later on that's also costly and this slows everything down I wouldn't say it's only a positive thing so it could have a positive and negative aspect I would agree to the extent that I think it's a misconception that startups or fintechs are against regulation I think why the opposite is true what we need is fear regulation and so what regulation usually brings about is additional complexity and we need to adjust both of things where startups are very good at so it actually can be a competitive advantage if regulation happens and especially for our in our case a neutral regulatory competition is the right word but our business model naturally so what we do is we take money from German investors and put them into banks in let's say Sweden so in the end the Swedish deposit of the German scheme will have to pay off German investors which they don't like and on the other side it may take money out of the German financial system so both national regulators have a national tendency to not like the product so much but looking at having the overall European picture perspective it actually integrates it creates a European market for the positive products so and that's actually a struggle we sometimes face it's not so much competition amongst regulators but the national protection I would say even when we talk about the problem there's that people who invest in a project online and get their own money most of them are retail clients what if something goes wrong and then the crowd gets angry what happens so the answer is what differentiates between two types reward based where you're not actually investing so that's a set of we'll talk about equity which is more in line with this parallel so it's sort of unclear right now so they push the whole problem out portals are the responsible entities in some cases but if they're doing everything right then responsibility falls to the organization responsible whether or not you can ever claim anything for a small fly by net retail company that fails is an open question how you end up making money in the end from these investments because these are not these are not lending investments but they're equity investments so that company needs to exit which implies a high failure rate so this is the big danger in equity crowdfunding is you're betting on a lottery ticket because it's not a loan where you're going to get some piece of return you've heard about how great startups are you've watched a social network movie you watch whatever you call Shark Tank or Dragon's Den or whatever here and you think I want to do that so failure is part of the game so that becomes the real question is how do you educate people the fact that they're going to fail and then how do you stop how do you filter if we solve the problem and figure out which startups to invest in I wouldn't be here now I'd just be using that system so it's sort of an open question of what do you expect as opposed to these products where it's about limiting downside risk and increasing return making everyone a venture capitalist requires a very different attitude and I don't know if it's a good thing ultimately or not before I come to the audience I know you had a long day already but I'd like to open it up to the public after this round even you already mentioned in your presentation the word democratization and that I think that all to both of your fintechs also take part in that do you open up something for people that couldn't invest in that special area before because as you said before that usually it's what's only open capital markets are only for rich people so I'd like to get that question to you Lars do you think that all the fintech environment helps to democratize financial markets? Absolutely, I think this morning I had a paper on social trading and the word was that everyone can now become a pump manager I think that already tells us like if you are good in that and you don't need any financial education or like any education at all if you're a good person investing in stocks and you build a nice portfolio or ayondo whatever then you're just the person to do that I think that wasn't possible before I would just say again I know what we've said this before but this is a two-party process I like the idea of thinking about the global capital flows as having beneficiaries in terms of recipients of the money as well and I think that's the other question is you're democratizing access not just to the people making the investments but the people receiving them and that there's some value there too because the system wasn't just broken on the investor side or tended to have connections there tended to be some reasons for kickbacks or inside games and that goes away too so there's benefits and moments potentially I'm struggling with the term democratization I mean if we're talking about level playing field I think that's good democracy is kind of a governance structure and my question is isn't even good to have democracy investing does it lead to the deficient decisions or should that decision be led to specialists I'm sure there's data on that so democratization of opportunity rather than democratization of choice so government markets both receivers and givers have been limited to by combination of regulation and size and difficulty totally a few players so democratization of access is reasonable but democratization in terms of I want my fund manager to be like a 12 year old who's kind of hacked together their own fund fund I'm okay with that doing that so I see the first question on the back please say a name and maybe who you're referring to hello my name is Peri Meinhardt I'm from Verdi and I have a question my issue is sustainable development in how far do your product services contribute to sustainable development and for Professor Mollig I would be interested in how far does crowd investing contribute to sustainable development thank you there was like a neon okay so yeah I'll say first so what's interesting is I didn't ask in my survey specifically about sustainable development but I did ask whether their project was contributing to social good and asked them to explain which ones we're still going through to figure out what they're doing but almost 70% of projects gave me a description about how they were contributing to social good so there seems to be active interest in it and again there seems to be some evidence of the projects that invoke these sort of elements do better there's a whole crowdfunding campaign and sites of the things like Kiva which does micro loans and financing very poor so there is there is interest in this not all of it is tied specifically to environment but at least the idea that there is the social investing platform there seems to be a pent up need and crowdfunding seems to be addressing some of that and I'll have more results for you soon as far as the breakdown of how many people use environmental words thoughts, I'm going to run those numbers and see what I can come up with so thank you for that quick response from my side so economic sustainability I think it's pretty clear now there's this case we build a European market try to help build a European market for our deposits and we help give away with market barriers so you see that European banks so fans that are active in European countries they charge for trying to deposit so if it's one bank get there segregating the markets so bringing down the barriers on cross-border I think is a good thing overall and logically it's good because you don't have to travel to Spain to open up a positive Spain ok Raisin is building Europe, what is Scallery is doing? Scallery is helping more investors to become better and smarter investors what we don't do just to directly also answer the question is about really reducing the universe we can invest in so there are a lot of funds out there who use, who run on that theme of sustainable and everything but it's very difficult to construct a global portfolio which is like really ticking the sustainable box everywhere it just depends on how much you look through, if you invest in a deposit at Raisin the deposit itself is not attached to any unsustainable project but you don't know where the bank which takes the deposit actually then gives the money to maybe they finance a project which is not sustainable and it's a bit similar in what we invest in we invest in capital markets and in the S&P 500 index there might be some companies in there you don't like, depending on the kind of filters you have for sustainability and it's not something we tackle. Any other questions from the audience? A very long day, when did you start? Actually I have two questions the first question relates to the regulatory setup from the University of Berlin so my first question relates to the regulatory sandbox and I would like to ask Florian and Daniel I think when we want to make a judgement whether we want this or not we should look at it not only from the regulated perspective but also from the regulators perspective and in that sense a regulatory sandbox might be able to solve an information problem because if I look at a market in a newly developing market from a regulators perspective if I want to make good regulation, I need information do you think that the regulatory sandbox might be a way to provide this information to the regulator? And the second question goes to the whole panel I was wondering we are talking about financial decision making and the internet and we were talking about all these disruptions and everything and I mean the internet exists not only it has been existing for five years but for 20 or 30 years so why this difference in the last five years? Is it a technological advance or is it something else? So on the regulatory sandbox I see a point it's important that the regulator is up to speed on what's happening so if the regulatory sandbox is set up in a way that it allows you to communicate or engage with the regulator quite early in the process and get some feedback from them like both Bachel and FCA are doing that maybe not in a really framed way yet but they already do that and if the sandbox is about that I think it's a good thing if the sandboxes reside the playing field is not level anymore and you have some players which operate on a lighter regulation than others but it's not good for the structure of the capital market so eventually once you are live with your product you have to play by the rules and everyone should have the same rules I totally agree that information flow goes both ways and for us it was a problem for a long time now it has improved that we don't have direct access for example to the German regulator because we as a deposit broker which is a not regulated activity in Germany we are not supervised by Barthens so they wouldn't even talk to us and it would be extremely helpful that they are used on certain things that are regulated that we outsource to other partners but they are admitted to be part of our business model so that has changed in this new opening up of Barthens to FinTechs it's not yet a sandbox but it's definitely an improvement and I personally for our business model what would be a great would be a pangor peen sandbox it's not regulated in Austria we need a banking license to do our business the same in Spain we need some intermediary licenses in another country so it's totally wild regulation across EU although the nature of the business itself is pretty simple it's a deposit broker so it would be an extremely efficient thing to have also a pan-European kind of sandboxing scheme where information flows go to the regulator and back the question was what has changed in the last 5 years would you like to start with that Mr? regulation? no regulation in the internet the internet was there in the 90s but we didn't see scale of capital or these services so is it really technological advance or is it something else as well? so I think so to give you a sense of I think that the startup environment is easier to do more online, more api's more approaches it's easier to get an idea out there I had students come up with an idea in my class for various reasons US college loans have fairly high interest rates and you can't banks are sort of unable technically to discriminate based on the quality of where you're getting your degree from so the chance of default from Wharton is near zero as opposed to other degrees where there might be higher chances of defaults or Harvard Medical School or something else so they realized all these people had old loans and they just offered refinancing over the internet with crowd sourced cash going in and they were able to raise $100 million within 4 months starting this venture in order to do this refinancing so I think it becomes a snowball effect where everyone is now because there's huge margin available to big banks that you can steal from it's cheap to do and the regulations have been pushed in that direction and I think you're just going to see this gather think about the presentation on the quote from when it was Max Aster on how it got cheaper to start up and multiply those numbers by 100 to do it like in banking in Switzerland the minimum capital for banks is 10 million Swiss francs and for most of the businesses we do you need that license and now with the technology and regulations lighting up a bit you are able to ramp up a fintech and a fraction of a price in the price as far as I would say it's technological advances that it sounds silly but user interfaces are much, much simpler and my parents can now use an iPad which was not possible like 5 years ago it would touch a few of that that's an important stuff and the second part is also regulatory again so passporting, KYC, guidelines, concepts all these kind of things just came in in 2013 or so so before that it was just not possible from regulatory perspective I think also there's also this book by Thomas Friedman what has emerged is all the steroids and what he means by that is you have now smartphones and tablets and stuff like that and also I mean Facebook only emerged around the turn of the century so without that I think it wasn't simply possible to have this kind of user interaction constantly playing with your smartphone and going back to your PC with a big box or something and I think it was just not that much hard to do these things that you can do now so I think it was just natural and that question leads to another one which is what does that mean that changed me for the whole financial world what would be your take on what does investing look like in 10 years from now starting what should bank exist in 10 years I think big banks are going to be in trouble because I think what you're seeing so the policy the thing has been what Sarge got very good at doing is looking for places where there's margin and then they can take they can give away 80% of the margin and still be hugely profitable and finance is full of huge margin businesses that you can steal away and there's so much I always complain when people give me startup plans where they assume they have like 1% of the market they just do it half percent of the first year 1% of the second year, third year but in banking if you have one tenth of 100% there is so much money to sustain a startup company and so I think that you're going to see challenges and I think the large banks are not built for them, not in your product but these products that you see it just doesn't make sense there's no product on your scale versus being on the internet so what happens I think you're going to see huge challenges and you're already seeing salaries drop in these spaces my students don't go in and the MBAs they're not going into any of the more retail business finances again, even edge funds you're going to see this continue to drop I think I think absolutely, I think there's no competitive advantage universal banks have each segment of a bank can be done much more efficient much more scale I think the only thing that commercial banks still have is they have a banking license I think even there like there are specialized providers who can only provide the banking license much better technological services to a fintech company I think these banks will survive in the end and I think Deutsche Bank won't exist in 10 years anymore Are you ok with the role of the hero as fintech? I think it's definitely true that the role of banks will diminish at the same time so there will be disintermediation of the value chain product providers and distribution partners will not be the same there will be platforms that will integrate third party products but there will also be a network in fact and we see that in our business very clearly so we're the largest and we get the new banks because we're the largest and we get the customers so it's a very network effect in that new environment that might lead to concentration again I think and I think another thing that was mentioned many times today is we all have an overflow of information we have attention deficit key success factor will be to keep it simple and as user friendly as possible to make financial decisions within the second to the second and the provider who does that best I think will prevail well I would like to come back to the quarter introduced you with Kichwas that he wants to become big so if fintechs one day are big will they have the same problems like the big banks today it's I think a challenge for every it's a good challenge for every successful startup to stay a startup as long as possible and it's about it's about the DNA of your team it's about how modular your technology is like are you already getting legacy from day one and are you willing to reinvent yourself on an ongoing basis and really cannibalize existing business you might have that's a challenge the bigger you get the more you have it and at some point new startups really but that's far away and I think there is as you said like there's a huge opportunity out there there's so much marching out there which was a piece of quote right but your marching is my opportunity this kind of applies for everyone here and yeah that's the challenge are there any questions left from you no not yet so then I still have one single question to Lars who's the only one who's not inside one of the fintech spheres in which one would you invest your own money is it palatable or reasonable what would you pick like as the Nobel Prize winner I would just invest my pension money which maybe is a disaster so thank you very much and thanks for your attention


What's up everybody? It's Jason here for jasperjasecasebrakes.com doing a quick 17-18 prism sell-out pack break number 39 random teams To give away some spots or give away one spot an NT basketball picketing number 16 Chance of the Pelicans and Grizzly's team random So the way this works guys is we randomize the 30 customer names and the teams We're gonna open up the one sell-out packs distribute the hits out of the pack Then at the end of the regular randomizer customer names again in a separate dice roller randomizer and top name at number One after the dice roll gets the eight hundred and fifty dollar team random spot To chase the pelicans and Grizzly's in picketing number 16 So we're gonna do the break first randomize customer names teams unlock the art open of the pack break Then we'll grab dice roll again And here we go right there Through the basketball mixture that's posted today It has not broken yet. I don't know if we had a basketball make sure yesterday But if you're thinking of the basketball make sure that it's on the website today There's 11 left. So it has not broken yet once it fills that zero then we can break it All right, you guys good luck. So let's do the pack break really quick Let's roll it and we got a two and a two four times one two three four those four Brandon down to Steven four times here. Ah Yes, I happened yesterday. If you want to check on our videos to That should be uploaded already. It should be there, man Pull the trail blazers down to the Dallas Mavericks after four times All right, so Brandon you got the blazers Josh with the nuggets doing the calves Josh with the Grizzlies Brandon with the Celtics Daniel the Wizards Josh with the Wars Clippers Rockets Bucks 76ers Hornets Michael with the Sun's Hawks Josh with the Thunder Heat Daniel the Knicks rid of the Raptors brand of the Pelicans and Nets Adam with pistons Michael the Tewos Josh with the Pacers Steven with the Magic brand of the Lakers Sean with the Kings and Jazz Steven with the Bulls Josh with the Spurs and Steven with the Dallas Mavericks All right guys, no one really ever trades in me. So I'm just gonna close the trade window we'll print and rip and Then we'll see who wins that spot in the team random with cello pack George Hill silver Also, I'm looking at my face. I think it burns the weekend. I was hoping the in-laws move up With a little bit more red a little tan And a silver Frank Lola once a silver Frank Lola guys, but as a magic Steven does Atkinson and New Coli No, Ruby's in this pack All right, well there you go. Nonetheless, you're in this to win that spot in the team and so let's see If you guys who's gonna get in sorry So again customer names here again customer number one gets the spot in the team random It's a one and a three four times. Good luck One two three and four Four times four times. Good luck Joshua played the odds game. I think got themselves like 12 or 13 spots and there you go man. Congratulations After four times you are now in the break itself We have one more way to win a spot in NT team random to unlock that and it's already on the website and halfway there That's 16 left guys number 40. Appreciate it. It's Jasky's case breaks.com


Good morning everybody, I'm Tommy O'Brien, coming to you live from TFNN headquarters in St. Petersburg, Florida, 10 a.m. Eastern Time, 30 minutes into the trading day and quite a change from yesterday. We got markets in positive territory. S&P is up 21 points, trading at 28-28. You got the NASDAQ right now up 39 points, trading at 76-86 and the Dow up 130 points, trading at 25,455 gold, down $2,1299. You have oil trading higher, 46 cents at 61-50, notes and bonds are flat, and the dollar index currently up 165 ticks, trading at 97-285, we'll start it off, let's jump over to the futures markets, we'll start it off with the Dow. So basically approaching session highs, we had pre-market, the Dow was up there at about 25,470, currently 25,435, pretty close to that level. NASDAQ 100, we had a little bit of a sell-off at 945, currently trading 73-69. We made it higher pre-market 73-99, being that high at around 7.30 a.m. S&Ps, much the same, little bit of a sell-off at 945, climbing back up to that level, 28-28 on the S&P, the high 28-32. Low contract reached a high last night, at about 10.30 of 1304, pretty close to that level, 12.99 as we've been above 1300 on a couple occasions this morning, and crude oil getting quite an acceleration from about 6 a.m. this morning, trading at $60.80, we climb up to $61.99, since just after 8 a.m., currently trading $61.59, and Euro-US dollar, $112.12. In terms of, we'll start it off with oil, so you have the Saudi Energy Minister reporting drone terrorism against pipeline infrastructure, seems like we had some fundamental news with ships possibly yesterday, you have pipeline infrastructure this morning, you have Comcast agreeing to sell its stake in Hulu to Disney in five years, they'll either be able to get $27.5 billion or whatever Hulu appraises to be worth in five years, and also what do we have going on Bitcoin, above 8,000, quite a number as it's more than double now what it was at in 2019, and there's your chart with Disney, was up to almost 134, still up almost a percent today at 132.57. Stay tuned folks, come back at 10 o'clock with Tom, then of course we have Fast Market by TD Ameritrade, Thinkorswim at 11, Basil Chapman, Steve Rhodes, Dave White, Tom O'Brien all this afternoon, stay tuned folks, have a great Tuesday.


Mobile technologies are increasingly being used in low- and middle-income countries to improve health outcomes. Studies show that mobile health, mHealth, interventions can help with treatment adherence, appointment compliance, data collection, and support networks for healthcare professionals. However, further research is needed to strengthen the evidence base. This article was authored by Charles S. Hall, Edward Fottrell, Sophia Wilkinson, and others.


There's a lot of scary stuff that happens when a website gets hacked. Comment below with your passports. But if you really want to stay protected in today's world, that is absolutely crucial. Welcome to The Journey. Today we're going to talk about the top security tips to build a trusted website. All right, Nealey, what do you suggest for small business owners to get a trusted website? How can they go about that? Yeah, and there are so many different ways to do that and we're going to go over that in this video. But I think the number one thing that's really top of mind with a lot of small business owners is making sure their site's secure and getting rid of that warning at the top with an SSL. Now, an SSL, what it does instead of when you type in your password on the site, Emma wants pizza exclamation. So don't share that at home. So instead of sending that over the internet and playing text for anyone to read, the SSL gobbled a gook sit up so that if anyone were to catch that, it just looks like nonsense, like the word gobbled a gook and that's a technical term. Right. And then the SSL is also going to help boost your SEO ranking and says, Google really likes secure websites, which is super helpful and it's going to get rid of that not secure warning. Have you seen that at the top of some browsers? Yeah, I can't say I've always listened to it, but after this I will. Right. For most people that don't understand like more technical aspects of the internet, they see that not secure warning and they bounce like, Whoa, this site's not safe. I'm out. I quit. I'm out. Right. I'm naive. So that's coming to my first tip for you is to add an SSL and that could be, there are some free providers out there. There's some pay that have a little bit extra features to them. Go on Google and search SSL. All right, Naly, you already know I have a business, coffee and kickflips. And you've mentioned things about security and malware, but what is that? How do I go about that? Why? Yeah. So another way we can protect your website is to add a malware scanner.  And it helps to stay protected because there's a lot of scary stuff that happens when a website gets hacked. It's not just a random thing. They'll redirect your visitors to some pretty bad sites. Like I was talking to a small business owner and she wrote children's books and she had interactive books on her website and her website got hacked and it got redirected to not so great things. And they're sending little Timmy, who thought they were going to read a book to some pretty questionable sites. And that just hurts a brand and it's hard to come back from. So you want to make sure you're protected with that malware scanner. So anything were to happen, you're protected. And you can go one step further with a firewall. So firewall that's stronger than malware. Yes. Malware you can think of like someone just broke in your house. Now you get everything cleaned up. That's what that malware scanner is going to do. The firewall, it's going to make sure they don't get in your house in the first place. Yeah. Okay. Which is super helpful. It's something that it's going to cost a little bit more money. But if you really want to stay protected in today's world, like that is absolutely crucial. So thinking about this, I've been fortunate so far with copying and kickflips, but my fears of this happening is because my friend's site, he sells grip tape for skateboards, it actually was hacked. And the mess and the time and the money it took to get his brand back, the website up and running perfectly, took a lot, took a lot out of them too. So I can see why you want to look at the different variances of security. And then I just go all the way. Right. And that could have potentially been avoided, right?  And the one way you can basically avoid that is to have some sort of backup solution on your website. Now I would recommend having like a 30-day or a 60-day just rolling back up. So if anything were to happen, it's like snapping your fingers and poof, your site is back. And all that effort and work that he put into that, it's fixed. It's like nothing ever happened. All right, now I want you to be honest with all of us. Do you have a doc online that has all of your password information? I do, actually, because I don't want to forget them. Very organized. No, that is so unsecure. What happens if anyone were to get access to that doc? Oh, I see where you're going with this. Now they're in everything. Your bank account, your pizza accounts, all those things, right? Got it. So you don't want to have that sensitive information no matter what it is, whether it's your passwords or credit card information or just stuff about you that you don't want anyone to know about, right? You want to make sure that's offline in a secure place and try to remember it. There's some password vaults that can potentially help you out with that. So you don't have to have your passwords just there. Yeah. And should I have a different password for different things? So absolutely. You shouldn't use the same password on one place as you do everywhere because if a website you use gets hacked, they have your password. They now have your password to everything. All the things, right? Yeah, I have a lot of work to do. Yeah. All right. So to kind of piggyback on that, you want to make sure that you're not sharing your passwords with anyone, even if they're your most trusted advisors. What about like my manager though? Probably not them too. I've ran into a lot of experiences where a company owner gives their employee their password information and then the employee doesn't work for that company anymore and they've done some damage. So you want to be safe and cautious about your passwords because they're yours, right? Right. Okay. So I hear you on not having my passwords on one place, also not having the same password being used for all my accounts. Next question, how often should I be changing my password? Kind of often. I would probably recommend every three months or so to keep it fresh. I know it's a lot of work. We have a lot of passwords and logins to all these different sites, but Google does a really good job with their browser of saving your passwords so you don't always have to remember them. There's the one kick logins with like Apple login now and Google logins and Facebook logins to help you better secure your information in that way you don't have to remember just a ton of passwords. Yeah. And now another thing we need to think about is your Wi-Fi situation. You have an unsecured or secured Wi-Fi? How do you know? Do you have to use a login, a password to get into your Wi-Fi? Yes. Absolutely. Because we don't want the neighbors to be just... You don't want them stealing your Wi-Fi, right? Get your own Wi-Fi. Cool. So you want to make sure you're on a secured network, especially in your own home, put a super, super, super complicated password on your Wi-Fi to make sure you're protected. And now I know a lot of us, like ourselves included, like going to local coffee shops and connect to the Wi-Fi there. And that's an unsecured network. So if you type in your passwords on that network, it gets sent over. And if anyone's just listening in and peeking in on that network, they could potentially see your stuff. Okay. So I probably shouldn't be checking my bank account when I'm at a coffee shop. Probably not. So if you absolutely have to for whatever reason, you can get set up with a VPN from any provider, just Google VPN provider. And that's basically going to set up an encrypted connection to their server to help you protect your information if you're on those unsecured locations. All right. So that's all we have for you on our top security tips to build a trusted website. Be sure to comment below. Tell us a favorite thing you learned. Also, like and share this video. I'm sure a lot of your local heroes and friends have similar questions. And subscribe. And don't forget to ring that bell to be the first to know when we have another video coming out. This is the journey.


Going on everyone Sam here with late in sports car driven 2223 Panini prism Premier League EPL soccer choice 10 box break number 3 Random team style. There's a look again at your random results. As always you can find those on the website under the results tab as well as a link in chat Yeah, it's kind of brutal Vaughn not gonna lie. Did I drop those little net link? This one yeah I want to make sure I'm gonna have to upload the video for a lot of you got three silvers Fred Kiernan Tierney Connor Cody instant impact is Harvey Barnes Got auto Saul Campbell. That is Arsenal Nice one there Don't like Brentford had a snag a spot in the next one that there you go Pierre Amelie Hoyberg Exclusive Tiago Silva to 15 on the try nice one there and exclusive is Kiernan Dewsbury Hall for Lester Jake top load challenge impossible Again No, I did upload by the guy. Cool. Oh, it's on a Edward Martin odegaard and Kyle Walker Peters Ryan Yates rookie. We've got Pontus Jansen. That is for Brentford. There you go. Nice one there Chris 17 four and the fifth. Good God Patrick Bamford, there's red scope Ben White to 30 and Exclusive Jared Bowen we are also sold out on the next EPL guys. So thank you so much sound out both We had 16 and 15 to go when I sat down today. That's incredible that you guys got that sold out big Thanks to everybody who took spots in that. Thank you so much It's got a trap. That's true Aaron Creswell. Edward Mendy Muhammad Salisu Lloyd Kelly Got for Brentford again Rico Henry Kelly can Chris Grats buddy Then guys do have some dynasty. I'm gonna drop you the link to the first dynasty Leftside serial numbers. We've got six to go Again every spot you get to a random serial number six and five to go on those two Lucas paquita Luke Thomas the 15 on the red blue purple and exclusive Christopher Azure Always That's true got a lot of looking out to do on that. That's the case you looking out for me. You got a lot Takes up a lot of your time, buddy You already tell them on I feel so bad that I'm so terrible attitude Luke Thomas Millie I think you're not the worst Martin Odegard. I've seen worse fair and Prism auto is for Liverpool. That is Joe Cole flashback auto on the scope. There you go a Liverpool That's a Sam Greenwood red scope Marcus Rashford for man United to 30 and a Kevin and Babu Yeah, I do it I can Hitting stinks. I'm so bad at hitting. I gotta do so I figure something out dude I'm gonna sound like the Brandon Louv and we'll do the show right now I didn't play last year The first time was 21 when I started playing Pablo for Nalls Mateo Kova cheech hungman son mckel Adams guard That's one here for Manchester United. That's gonna be another flashback flashback autograph Gary Neville Congrats again, man. You night it we've got a Chem Campbell a Lucas Dinae to 15 on the red blue purple for Assam via and check decor Also got eminence tonight guys eminence is officially $500 off per spot 500 off a spot Kenny Tete Niko Williams and Philip Billing We've got Danny Welbeck. That is for what is that? Brighton Brighton in Hove. Yeah, Brighton Danny Welbeck exclusives Dijon Kulasevski red scope Levi call will 30 and Josh De Silva So yeah, if you are interested in getting into an eminence break, I'd say now is the time to do so spots are down to 2000 a spot that that is off from 2500 Which is pretty awesome Tim Reem Ibrahim Aconate and Pedro Nito. They need Oh Nito Gabriel Martinelli Nice one here for Man City Col Palmer on the scope auto He's a stud. We've got green scope Andy Robertson five of five. Nice one there for Liverpool Andy Robertson Danny Welbeck and a Oh Otsana Edward on your exclusives as well. There's one more team left in Bowman as well Chris Richards Louis Dunk Amelia Buendia Edward Mendee Tony Kati That is for West Ham. Nice one there West Ham Albert Sambi Lokanga Pedro Nito and Lucas Fabianski So definitely looking to fill up those eminent spots looking to fill up our dynasty spots as well Our dynasty gilded mixer is now sold out. That does have a full case of dynasty in it too. So you'll get a nice look at dynasty Vincent Goyata Harry Tafolo rookie silver and Ryan Cessanin and it's the impact pre-listic Got Southampton Tino leave Romento leave Romento For again that is Southampton On the auto we've got Dwight McNeil Ryan Frazier to 15 for Newcastle on the tricolor and a Alfonso ariola or Alfonso ariola and last box of the break guys to go quick recap of our autos as well and our Number yeah, I would say anything green is going to recap to unless there's like a big name red tricolor silver waltz phase Pascal Grubb and Raul Jimenez You're in Pickford Rackville nice Manchester United Bruno Fernandez Grats on that one man United going to Alexandros Congrats Alexandros nice hit there, buddy midfielder We've got a Levi Caldwell to 30 rookie for Brighton Renan Lurie and a Raphael Veran or Verana on your choice exclusives do a quick recap here guys of our hits We had the green to five of Andy Robertson for Liverpool Bruno Fernandez autumn Tino leave Romento autumn Tony Cotty Cole Palmer man United Hermione Mancy Danny Wellbeck Rico Henry Pontus Jansen soul Campbell Joe Cole and Gary Neville that will do it for the break guys. Thanks again for the fill next up We have the second one of these


We come together to inspire. We come together to share joy, to laugh, to laugh, to spend life together, to win. Now it's time to come together for our nation. It's time to come together and free India of water crisis. Freeing India of water crisis means just this. If we put back India's land, at least one-third of it under shade, groundwater will replenish in a huge way. Based on this, we are looking at how to plant 2.4 billion trees in the next twelve years in Kaveri Basin. Freeing India of water crisis is the independence movement that we need right now. Kaveri is only the first step. If we successfully pull this in twelve years time in Kaveri Basin, this is a game changer for the nation and for the tropical world.


Mpho Lecholonia Neh doesn't care what you think of her marriage. Just weeks after celebrating a traditional wedding ceremony, Mpho Lecholonia Neh, formerly Maboy, has posted a public service announcement to all y'all coming at her for marrying her soccer star hubby. Mpho has never been one to sit quietly while people take shots at her relationship and revealed this week that she has had to put up with vile messages from hate Twitter for years. Sometimes I get these social media notifications and see the vile things people say about my relationship. It's been happening for years. Had I ever angel-worried more about what people who don't even know me were saying, I would never have married the love of my life. Sis says that just because she isn't about to step into the shoes people have made for her, she has become a target. People sometimes feel that we should all function on the same level, want the same things and if you go against what they would do, you're a target. I'm glad I believed and trusted in my emotions. Maybe a sense of maturity and serenity played a role as well. I don't know, I repeat, love the one you love and let them continue to talk.


Chapter 6 of The Dutch Twins This LibriVox recording is in the public domain. Recording by Bianca. The Dutch Twins by Lucy Fitzperkins. The day they got their skates. One morning, when Kit and Kat went out early to Vita ducklings, the frost nipped their noses and ears. It's getting colder every day. Very soon, winter will come, Kat said. They ran down to the canal. The old goose and the gander and the gaslings, now half-grown, were standing on the bank, looking unhappy. There was a thin sheet of ice all over the canal, and they could not go swimming. Kit took a stick and broke the ice. Thin sheets of it, like pieces of broken glass, were soon floating about, and the old goose, the gander and all the gaslings, went down the bank in a procession into the water. They swam about among the pieces of ice for a while, but it was so cold that they soon came up on the bank into the sun again and wiggled their tails to shake out the water. Then they all sat down in the sun to get their feet warm. Kit and Kat went up and down the road and played tag, until their cheeks were red and they were warm as toast. Then they ran into Frau Vetter's warm kitchen. The cattle was singing on the fire, and there was a smell of coffee in the air. Frau Vetter gave the twins some in a large cup. She put in a good deal of milk and gave them each a piece of sugar to sweeten it with. Is it Sunday, asked Kat. On Sundays they sometimes had coffee. On other days they had milk. No, said Frau Vetter, but it is cold, and I thought a cup of coffee would warm us all up. While they were drinking their coffee, Kit and Kat talked about the ice, and what fun they would have with their slats on the canals when winter came. I tell you what it is, Kat, said Kit. I think we're big enough to have skates. Hans' height isn't much bigger than I am, and he had skates last winter. I mean to ask father this very day. Ja, said Kat, that's the way Dutch twins always say yes. Ja, and let us be very good and help mother all we can. I think maybe they will give skates to good twins quite soon, even if we aren't very big yet, not big enough to be called Christopher and Katrina. Frau Vetter was heating water and getting out her scrubbing brushes, so Kit and Kat knew that she was going to clean something. What are you going to scrub today, mother? Fast, Kit. I'm going to scrub the stable, said Frau Vetter. It's getting too cold for the cows to stay all night in the pastures. Father means to bring Frau Holstein in tonight, and I want her stable to be nice and clean for her. We'll help you, said Kit and Kat very politely. Good children, their mother said, you may carry the brushes. So they opened the door beside the fireplace and walked right into the stable. The stable was really a part of the house. There were two stalls in the stable. Frau Vetter took her pills of water and her brushes and began to scrub. She scrubbed the walls and the sides of the stalls and the floor. The twins scrubbed too, until they were tired, and the stable was so clean you would have liked to live there yourself. Let's play out here, said Kat. Let's play house. All right, said Kit. I'll be the father and you be the mother. But who will be twins, said Kat? Let's get the ducklings, said Kit. They can be twins, of course, said Kat. They are anyway. So Kit ran out and brought in the ducklings. They were so tame, they always went to Kit and Kat when they saw them coming. They were almost ducks now. They had grown so big. Let's give the twins their dinner, said Kat. So she got some grain and they both sat down on a little box and held the ducks in their laps and fed them from their hands. The ducks ate greedily. You are very bad manners, said Kat. You will get your clothes all dirty. She took two rags and tied them around the ducks' necks for bibs. The ducks did not like bibs. They cracked. Now don't say anything like that, said Kat.  Then Kit got some water and a spoon and gave the twins a drink, but they did not like the drink either. Now we must put them to sleep, said Kat. They rocked the ducks in their arms, but the ducks cracked dreadfully. What bad children to cry so, said Kit. You can have both the twins. And he gave his duck to Kat. You fix a bed for them, said Kat. So Kit turned up the box they had been sitting on and put some hay in it and they put the ducks in on the hay. Pretty soon the ducks went to sleep. Kit and Kat ran away to play out of doors and forgot all about them. They didn't think about them again until Father Feather came home at night with Mavral Holstein. When he put the cow into the stall, he stumbled over the box. It was rather dark in the stable. Quack, quack, said the ducks. Kit and Kat were helping Father put the cow into the stall and get some hay for her. When the ducks quacked, Father Feather said, What in the world is this? Oh, our twins are twins, cried Kit and Kat. Don't let Mavral Holstein step on the twins. Father Feather pulled out the box. Kit and Kat each took a duck and carried it out to the poultry house. Twins are a great care, said Kit and Kat. Now is the time to ask, whispered Kat to Kit that night when Father Feather had finished his supper and was lighting his pipe. You must ask very politely, just the very politely way you can. They went and stood before their father. They put their feet together. Kit made a bow and Kat bobbed a curtsy. Dear parents, said Kit. That's a good start, whispered Kat. Go on. Well, well, what now, said Father Feather. Dear parents, Kat and I are quite big now. I think we must be nearly four feet and a half high.  So that's it, said Father Feather. Then he smoked his pipe again. There was ice on the canal this morning, said Kit. So you think you are big enough to skate, do you? said Father Feather at last. Mother Feather was clearing away the supper. What do you think about it, Mother? said Father Feather. They have been very good children, said the Frau. There are the skates you and I had when we were children. We might try them on and see if they are big enough to wear them. They are in the back hanging back of the press. Kit and Kat almost screamed with joy. Our feet are quite large. I'm sure we can wear them, they said. Father Feather got the bag down and took out two pairs of skates. They had long curling ends on the runners. The twins sat down on the floor. Father Feather tried on the skates. They are still pretty large, but you will grow, he told the twins. You may have them if you will be very careful and not let them get rusty. By and by we will teach you to skate. The twins practiced standing in the skates on the kitchen floor, and when bedtime came they took the skates to bed with them. Oh, Kit, said Kat, I never supposed we'd get them so soon, did you? Well said Kit, you see, we're pretty big and very good. That makes a difference. It's very nice to be good when people notice, isn't it, said Kat? Yeah, said Kit, I'm going to be good now right along all the time, for very soon St. Nicholas will come, and he leaves only a rod in the shoes of bad children. And if you've been bad, you have to tell him about it.  I'm going to be good until after the feast of St. Nicholas anyway. Not many days after Kit and Kat got their skates, there came a cold, cold wind. It blew over the fields and over the canals all day and all night long, and in the morning, when the twins looked out, the canal was one shining roadway of ice. Father Feather came in from the stable with a great pail full of milk. Winter's here now, for good and all, he said, as he set the pail down. The canals are frozen over, and soon it will be the day for the feast of St. Nicholas. Kit and Kat ran to him and said both together, Dear Father Feather, will you please teach us to skate before St. Nicholas Day? I'll see if the ice is strong enough to bear, said Father Feather, and he went right down to the canal to see that very minute. When he came in, he said, Yes, the ice is strong, and we will go out as soon as you're ready and try your skates. Father Feather said, I should like to go, too, and Father Feather said to Kit and Kat. Your mother used to be the finest skater in the whole village when she was a young girl. You must not let her beat you. They hurried through with their work, Kit and Kat helped, then they all put on their heavy shoes and wraps, took their skates over their shoulders, and started for the canal. If you learn to skate well enough, we'll take you to town before the feast of St. Nicholas, said Father Feather, but it comes very soon. He put on his own skates and Kit and the mother put on her own and Kat's. I'm sure we can do it almost right away, said Kat. Now we'll show you how to skate, said Father Feather. He stood the twins up on the ice. They held each other's hands. They were afraid to move. Father Feather took Mother Feather's hand. See, he said, like this, and away they went, like two swallows, skimming over the ice. In a minute they were ever so far away. Kit and Kat felt lonesome and very queer when they saw their father and mother flying along in that way. They weren't used to see them do anything but work and move about slowly. It looks easy, said Kit. Let's try it. We must not be afraid. He started with his right leg, pushing it out a little in front of him. But it was very strange how his legs acted. They didn't seem to belong to him at all. His left leg tried to follow his right, just as it ought to, but instead it slid out side-wise and knocked against Kat's skates. Then both Kat's feet flew up and she sat down very hard on the ice, and Kit came down on top of her. They tried to get up, but each time they tried, their feet slid away from them. Oh dear, said Kat, we're all mixed up. Are those your feet or mine? I can't tell which is which. They don't any of them mind, said Kit. I can't stand up on any of them. I've tried them all. We'll just have to wait until father and mother come back and pick us out. Ice is quite cold to sit on, isn't it? Said Kat. Soon, father and mother-father came skimming back again. When they saw Kit and Kat, they laughed and skated to them, picked them up and sat them on their feet. Now I'll take Kit and you take Kat, said mother-father to her husband, and they'll be skating in no time. So Kat's father took her hands and Kit took hold of his mother's and they started off. At first, the twins' feet didn't behave well at all. They seemed to want to do everything they could to bother them. They would sprawl way apart, then they would tow in and run into each other. Many times, Kit and Kat would have fallen if father and mother-father had not held them up. But before the lesson was over, both Kit and Kat could skate a little bit alone. See, this is the way, said Frau Vetter, and she skated around in a circle. Then she cut a figure like this eight in the ice. Then father-father did a figure like this S all on one foot. My, said Kit and Kat. I think our parents must skate the best of all the people in the world, said Kat. I'm going to someday, said Kit, so my, said Kat. After a while, Frau Vetter said, it's time to go home, not too much the first time. So they all went back home with their cheeks as red as roses and noses too, and such an appetite for dinner. But the twins were a little lame next day. Every day after that, Kit and Kat went out with their skates to the ditches and tried and tried to skate as father and mother did. They did so want to skate to town and see the sides before the Feast of St. Nicholas. They worked so hard that in a week they could skate very well and they planned a surprise for their mother. If you will watch at the window, you'll see a great sight on the canal very soon, said Kit to his mother one day. Of course Frau Vetter hadn't the least idea what it would be. Kit and Kat slipped out through the stable and ran down to the ditch. They put on their skates and skated from the ditch out to the big canal. Frau Vetter was watching at the window. Soon she saw Kit and Kat go flying by hand in hand on the canal. They waved their hands to her. Frau Vetter was so pleased that she went to call Father Vetter, who was in the hay loft over the stable. Come and see Kit and Kat, she cried. Father Vetter came down from the loft and looked too. Then Kit cut a figure like this, S, and Kat cut one like this, six. The round spot is where she sat down hard, just as she was almost around. When they came into the kitchen, Father said, I think we could take such a fine pair of skaters as that to the think with us on our way to town. The ice is very hard and thick for so early in the season, and we will go tomorrow. We can see the shops, too, since Nicholas is coming, and the shops are full of fine things, said Frau Vetter. Kit and Kat could hardly wait for tomorrow to come. They polished their skates and made everything ready. What are you supposed to think is, said Kat to Kit. I think it's something like a church, said Kit. You don't know what to think is, so dare, said Kat. I think it's something to eat. Then Kit changed the subject. I'll raise you tomorrow, he said. I'll beat, said Kat. We'll see, said Kit. The next day, they started all four quite early in the morning. Frau Vetter took her basket on her arm. I shall want to buy some things, she said. Father Vetter lighted this pipe to keep my nose warm, he said. Then they all went down to the canal and put on their skates. Kat and I are going to race to the first windmill, said Kit. I'll tell you when to start, said Father Vetter. And I'll get a cake for the one who wins, said the mother. One, two, three. Away they flew like the wind. Father and Mother Vetter came close behind. Kit was so sure he would beat that he thought he would show off a little. He went zigzag across the canal. Once or twice, he stopped to skate in curves. Kat didn't stop for anything. She kept her eyes on the windmill and she skated as hard as she could. They were getting quite near the mill now. Kit stopped playing and began to skate as fast as he could. But Kat had got the start of him. I'll soon get ahead of her, he thought. She's a girl and I'm a boy. He struck out with great long sweeps as long as such short legs could make. But Kat kept her head and in another minute, there she was at the windmill, quite out of breath and pointing her finger at Kit. I beat, I beat, she said. Well, I could have beaten if I wanted to, said Kit. I'll get the cake, said Kat. I don't care, said Kit, but Kat knew that he did. I'll give you a piece, she said. Father and Mother Vetter came along then and when Kit and Kat were rested, they all skated for a long time without saying anything. Then Father Vetter said proudly to his wife, they keep up as well as anybody, were there ever such twins? And Mother Vetter said, never. By and by, other people appeared on the canal. Men and women and children all skating. They were going to the town to see the sides too. One woman skated by with her baby in her arms. One man was smoking a long pipe and his wife was carrying a basket of eggs. But a man and woman were good skaters. They flew along, laughing, and no one could get near enough to upset them. As they came nearer to the town, Kit and Kat saw a tent near the place where one canal opened into another. A man stood near the tent. He put his hands together and shouted through them to the skaters. Come in, come in and get a drink of warm sweet milk on your way to the vink. We must be getting quite near the vink, Kat said. I do wonder what it looks like. Do you think it's alive? They passed another tent. There a man was shouting, come buy a sweet cake. It cost but a cent. Come buy, come buy from the man in the tent. Frau Vetter said, I promise the cake to the one who beat in the race. We'll go in here and get it. So they went to the tent. They bought two cakes and each ate half of one. Kat broke the cakes and gave them to the others because she won the race. When they had eaten the cakes, they skated on. The canals grew more and more crowded. There were good many tents, flags were flying and the whole place was very gay. At last they saw a big building with crowds of merry skaters about it. Many people were going in and out. There's the vink, said Frau Vetter. Where? said Kit and Kat. He pointed to the building. Oh, said Kit. He never said another word about what they had thought it was like. Soon there were inside the vink. It was a large restaurant. There were many little tables about crowded with people eating and drinking. Frau Vetter found a table and it all sat down. Bring us some pea soup, he said to the waiter. Soon they were eating the hot soup. This is the best thing I ever had, said Kit. When they had eaten their soup, they went out of the building and walked through the streets of the town. All the shops were filled with pretty things. The baked shops had wonderful cakes with little candies on top and there were great cakes made like Saint Nicholas himself in his long robes. Kit and Kat flattened their noses against all the shop windows and looked at the toys and cakes. I wished Saint Nicholas would bring me that, said Kit, pointing to a very large Saint Nicholas cake. And I want some of those, Kat said, pointing to some cakes made in the shapes of birds and fish. Frau Vetter had gone with her basket on an errand. Father Vetter and Kit and Kat walked slowly along, waiting for her. Soon there was a great noise up the street. There were shouts and a clutter of wooden shoes. Look, look, cried Kit. There in the midst of the crowd was a great white horse and riding on it was the good Saint Nicholas himself.  Behind Saint Nicholas came a cart filled with packages of all sizes. The children were all shouting at once, give me a cake, good Saint Nicholas, or give me a new pair of shoes or whatever each one wanted most. Where's he going? asked Kit and Kat. He's carrying presents to houses where there are good girls and boys, Father Vetter said. For bad children, there's only rot in the shoe. I'm glad we're so good, said Kit. When will he come to our house? asked Kit. Not until tomorrow, said Father Vetter. But you must fill your wooden shoes with beans or hay for his good horse tonight and then perhaps he will come down the chimney and leave something in them. It's worth trying. Kit and Kit were in a hurry to get home. For fear the saint would get there first. It was growing late, so they all went to a waffle shop for their supper. In the shop, a woman sat before an open fire. On the fire was a big waffle iron. She made the waffles, put sugar and butter on them and passed the plate of them to each one. Oh, how good they were. When they had eaten their waffles, Father and Mother Vetter and the twins went back to the canal and put on their skates. It was late in the afternoon. They took hold of hands and began to skate toward home, four in a row. Father and Mother Vetter were on the outside and the twins in the middle. It was dark when they reached home. Frau Vetter lighted the fire while Father Vetter went to feed the cow and see that the chickens and ducks and geese were all safe for the night. Kit and Kit ran for their wooden shoes. They each took one and put some hay in it. This was for St. Nicholas to give to his horse. Father Vetter put his shoes on the mantle. Then they hurried to bed to make morning come quicker. Father and Mother Vetter set up late that night. Mother Vetter said it was to prepare the goose for dinner the next day. When the twins woke the next morning, the fire was already warring up the chimney and the kitchen was warm as toast. They hopped out of bed and ran for their wooden shoes. Mother Vetter reached up to the mantle shelf for them. Truly, the hay was gone and there in each shoe was a package done up in paper. Oh, he did come, he did come, cried Kit. Oh, Mother, you're sure you didn't build a fire before he had got out of the chimney? I'm sure, said Frau Vetter. I've made a fire on many a St. Nicholas morning and I've never burned him yet. The twins climbed up the steps to their cupboard bed and sat on the edge of it to open their packages. In kits was a big St. Nicholas cake, like the one in the shop window. And in kits were three cakes like birds and two like fish. Just what we wanted, said Kit and Kit. Do you suppose he heard us say so? St. Nicholas can hear what people think, said Frau Vetter. He's coming to see you tonight at six o'clock and you must be ready to sing him a little song and answer any questions he asks you. How glad I am that we are so good, said Kit. We'll see what the St. thinks about that, said the mother. Now get dressed. For grandfather and grandmother will be here for dinner and we're going to roast goose and there's a great deal to do. Kit and Kit set up beautiful cakes up where they could see them while they dressed. I do wish every day were St. Nicholas Day, said Kit. Or the day before, said Kat, that was such a nice day. All the days are nice days, I think, said Kit. I don't think the dog car day was so very nice, said Kat. We tore our best clothes and they'll never, never be so nice again. That was because you didn't mind. Well, said Kit, I minded as much as I could. How can I mind two things at one time? You know how well I can think. You know how I thought about Frau van der Kloot's cakes, but I can't think how I can mind twice at one time. I don't suppose you can, said Kat. But anyway, I'm sorry about my dress. Just then, Frau Vetter called them to come and eat their breakfast. Father and mother Vetter sat down at the little round table and bowed their heads. Kit and Kat stood up. Father Vetter said, Grace. And then they ate their salt herring and drank their coffee. And Kit and Kat had coffee too because it was St. Nicholas morning. It was snowing when, after breakfast, Kit went out with his father to feed the chickens and the pigs and to see that the cow had something very good that she liked to eat. When they had done that, they called Kat and she helped throw out some grain on the white snow so the birds could have a feast too. It snowed all day. Kit and Kat both helped their mother get the dinner. They got the cabbage and the onions and the potatoes ready and when the goose was hung upon the fire to roast, they watched it and kept it spinning around on the spit so it would brown evenly. By and by, the kitchen was all in order and you can't think how clean and home-like it looked. The brasses all around the room had little flames dancing in them because they were so bright and shiny. Everything was ready for the St. Nicholas feast. The goose was nearly roasted and there was such a good smell of it in the air. After a while, there was a great stamping of feet at the door and Frau Vetter ran with the broom to brush the snow off grandfather and grandmother who had skated all the way from town on the canal. When they were warmed and dried and all their rubs put away, grandfather and grandmother Winkle looked around the pleasant kitchen and grandmother said to grandfather, our Neltje is certainly a good housewife. Neltje was Frau Vetter. And grandfather said, there's only one better one, my dear. He meant grandmother Winkle. By and by, they all sat down to dinner and I can't begin to tell you how good it was. It makes one hungry just to think of it. They had roast goose and onions and turnips and cabbage. They had bread and butter and cheese and sweet cakes. Everything except the flour in the bread we raised ourselves, said Frau Vetter. The hens gave us the eggs and the cow, the butter. The twins helped father and me to take care of the chickens and to milk the cow and to make the butter. So it's our very own St. Nicholas feast that we are eating. A farmer's life is the best life there is, said father Vetter. They sat a long time at the table and grandfather told stories about when he was a boy and father Vetter told how kid and cat learned to skate and kid and cat told how they saw St. Nicholas riding on a white horse and how he sent them the very things they wanted and they all enjoyed themselves very much. After dinner, grandmother Winkle sat down in the chimney corner and called kid and cat. Come here, she said, and I'll tell you some stories about St. Nicholas. The twins brought two little stools and sat beside her, one on each side. She took out her knitting and as the needles clicked in her fingers, she told this story. Once upon a time, many years ago, three little brothers went out one day to the woods to gather faggots. They were just about as big as you are, kid and cat. Were they all three twins, asked cat? The story doesn't tell about that, said grandmother Winkle, but maybe they were. At any rate, they all got lost in the woods and wandered ever so far, trying to find their way home. But instead of finding their way home, they just got more and more lost all the time. They were very tired and hungry, but as they were brave boys, not one of them cried. It's lucky that none of those twins were girls, said kid. I've even heard of boy twins that cried when dog cards ran away or something of that kind happened, said grandmother Winkle, but you shouldn't interrupt, it's not polite. Oh, said kid, very meekly. Well, as I was saying, they were very lost indeed. Night was coming on, and they were just thinking that they must lie down on the ground to sleep, when one of them saw a light shining through the leaves. He pointed it out to the others, and they walked along toward it, stumbling over roots and stones as they went, for it was now quite dark. As they came nearer, they saw that the light came from the window of a poor little hut on the edge of a clearing. They went to the door and knocked. The door was opened by a dirty old woman who lived in the hut with her husband, who was a farmer. The boys told the old woman that they had lost their way, and asked her if she could give them a place to sleep. She spoke to her husband, who said crouched over a little fire in the corner, and he told her to give them a bed in the loft. The three boys climbed a little ladder into the loft and lay down on the hay. They were so tired that they fell asleep at once. The old man and his wife whispered about them over their bit of fire. They are fine-looking boys and well dressed, said the old woman. Yes, said the old man, and I have no doubt they have plenty of money about them. Do you really think so, said the wife? I think I'll find a way to find a way to find them. I'll find out, said the wicked farmer. So he climbed up to the loft and killed the three boys. Then he looked in their pockets for money, but there was no money there. He was very angry, and he was very much afraid. Wicked people are always afraid. Are all afraid people wicked? asked Kat. She wished very much that she were brave. Well, not always, said Grandmother Winkel. The wicked farmer was so afraid that he wanted to put the bodies of the three boys where no one would find them. So he carried him down cellar and put them into the pickle tub with his pork. Oh, oh, oh! screamed Kat, and she put her hands over her ears. Even Kit's eyes were very round and big. But Grandmother said, Now don't you be scared until I get to the end of the story. Didn't I tell you it was all about St. Nicholas? You wait and see what happened. That very same day, the wicked farmer went to market with some vegetables to sell. As he was sitting in the market, St. Nicholas appeared before him. He had on his martyr and his long robes, just as you see him in Kit's cake. Have you any pork to sell? St. Nicholas asked the man. No, said the farmer. One of the three young pigs in your barn tub in the cellar, said St. Nicholas. The farmer saw that this wicked deed was found out as all wicked deeds are sooner or later. He fell on his knees and begged a good saint to forgive him. St. Nicholas said, Show me the way to your house. The farmer left his vegetables unsullied in the market and went home at once, the saint following all the way. When they reached the hut, St. Nicholas went to the pickled pork tub in the cellar. He waved his staff over the tub and out jumped the three boys, hardy and well. Then the good saint took them through the woods and left them inside of their own home. Oh, what a good St. Nicholas, said Kit and Cat. Tell us another. Well, said Grandmother Winkle. Once upon another time, there was a very mean man who had a great deal of money. That often happens. He had also three beautiful daughters that sometimes happens too. One day, he lost all his money. Now he cared more for his money than for anything else in the world, more even than for his three beautiful daughters. So he made up his mind to sell them. St. Nicholas knew of this wicked plan, so that very night he went to the man's house and dropped some money through a broken window. Why did he do that? asked Kit. Because the man was selling his daughters to get money. If he had money enough, he wouldn't sell them. The first night, St. Nicholas dropped enough money to pay for the eldest daughter. The next night, he took a purse of gold for the second daughter and dropped it down the chimney. It fell down right in front of the man as he was getting a call to lie this pipe. The third night, the man watched. And when St. Nicholas came, the door flew open and the man ran out. He caught St. Nicholas by his long rope and held him. Oh, St. Nicholas, servant of the Lord, he said, Why does thou hide thy good deeds? And from that time on, everyone has known it is St. Nicholas who brings gifts in the night and drops them down the chimney. Did the man sell his daughter? asked Kit. No, said Grandmother. He was so ashamed of himself that he wasn't wicked anymore. Does St. Nicholas give everybody presents so they will be good? asked Kit. Yes, said Grandmother. That's why bad children get only a rod in their shoes. He gave the bad man nice presents to make him good, said Kit. Why doesn't he give bad children nice things to make them good too? Grandmother Winkle knitted for a minute without speaking. Then she said, I guess he thinks that the rod is the present that will make them good in the shortest time. The clock had been ticking steadily along while Grandmother had been telling stories and it was now late in the afternoon. The sky was all red in the west. There were long, long shadows across the snowy fields and the corners of the kitchen were quite dark. It's almost time to expect him now, said Frau Vetter and she brought out the sheet and spread it in the middle of the kitchen floor.  Kit and Kat sat on their little stools. Their eyes were very big. At five minutes of six, Frau Vetter said, You will be here in just a few minutes now. Get up, Kit and Kat, and sing your song. The twins stood up on the edge of the sheet and began to sing. St. Nicholas, good holy man, put on your best gown, ride with it to Amsterdam, from Amsterdam to Spain. While they were singing, there was a sound at the door of someone feeling for the latch. Then the door flew open and a great shower of sweet cakes and candies fell onto the sheet all around Kit and Kat. There in the doorway stood St. Nicholas himself, smiling and shaking off the snow. His horse was stamping outside. Kit and Kat could hear it. They stopped singing and hardly breathed. They stood so still. They looked at St. Nicholas with big, big eyes. In one hand, St. Nicholas carried two large packages. In the other, a birch rod. Are there any good children here? said St. Nicholas. Pretty good if you please, dear St. Nicholas, said Kit in a very small voice. Children who always mined their mothers and fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers, said St. Nicholas, and who do not quarrel. Kat couldn't say anything at all, though the saint looked right at her. Frau Vetter spoke. I think, dear St. Nicholas, they are very good children, she said. Then I relieved these for them and carried a rod along to some bad little boy and girl if I find one, said St. Nicholas. There seemed to be very few about here. I haven't left a single rod yet. And he handed one big package to Kit and another to Kat. Thank you, said Kit and Kat. St. Nicholas smiled at them and waved his hand. Then the door shut and he was gone. Kit and Kat dropped on their knees to pick up the cakes and candies. They passed the cakes and candies around to each one. Frau Vetter lighted the candles and then they all gathered around to see Kit and Kat open their bundles. You open yours first, said Frau Vetter to Kat. Kat was so excited that she could hardly untie the string. When she got the bundle open, there was a beautiful new sunday dress, much prettier than the torn one had ever been. Oh, how pleased Kat was! She hugged her mother and her grandmother and her father and her grandfather. I just wish I could hug dear St. Nicholas too, she said. Then Kit opened his bundle and there was a beautiful new velveteen suit with his very own silver buttons on it. It had pockets in it. He put his hand in one pocket. It had a penny in it. Then he put his hand in the other pocket. There was another penny. I'm going to see if there's a pocket in mine, said Kat. She hunted and hunted and hunted. By and by she found a pocket and sure enough there was a penny in that too. Then some presents came from somewhere for father and mother Vetter and for grandfather and grandmother Winkle and such a time as they all had opening the bundles and showing their presents. Then mother Vetter tried on Kit's suit and Kat's dress to see if they were the right size. They were just right exactly. St. Nicholas even knows how big we are, said Kat. Oh, I wish St. Nicholas Day would last a week, said Kit. That reminds me, said Frau Vetter, and she looked at the clock. Half past ten and these children still up. Bless my heart, this will never do. Come here, Kit and Kat, and let me undo your buttons. May we take our new clothes to bed with us? Kat asked. Yes, just this once, said mother Vetter, because this is St. Nicholas night. They kissed their grandfather and grandmother Goodnight and their mother and father and said their prayers like good children. And then they climbed up into their little cupboard bed and Frau Vetter threw the curtains so they would go to sleep sooner. Goodnight, dear little twins, she said. And so say we. End of The Day They Got Their Skates End of The Dutch Twins by Lucy Fitzperkins Recording by Bianca in Utrecht, the Netherlands on December 28th, 2009