Joan Bennet in So Red The Rose on the Cavalcade of America, sponsored by DuPont, maker of better things for better living through chemistry. Gentlemen, this is Clayton Collier. Tonight, Cavalcade brings you one of Hollywood's loveliest young stars. Joan Bennet as Valette Bedford in Stark Young's colorful and romantic story of the Old South, So Red The Rose. By special arrangement with Paramount Pictures, DuPont presents a radio version of the exciting screenplay and best-selling novel on the Cavalcade of America. Joan Bennet in So Red The Rose. Good afternoon of the year 1861. On the veranda of the Plantation House of Portobello on the Mississippi, two Southern gentlemen are taking their eaves. The elder is Malcolm Bedford, master of Portobello. The younger, handsome, more careless in his dress is Duncan, a distant cousin, proud too of the name of Bedford. As our play opens, they are joined by Sally Bedford, master of Portobello. I hope you gentlemen don't mind if I join you for a refreshment. Quite the contrary, my dear. Our cousin Duncan persists in talking about what we should do with next year's crop. Oh, Duncan, I'm ashamed of you, talking business on an evening like this. Why, that's Yankee style. Sooner or later, we're going to have to wake up and adopt some Yankee customs, cousin Sally. Duncan. You better not let Bellevue you talking like that, Duncan. She thinks we ought to declare war on the Yankee. Well, Bellevue, it's young, yeah. She thinks war is romantic. Well, isn't it? Cousin Sally, have you ever been present at the amputation of a leg wounded by a grape shot? Duncan, such talk before, lady. I don't think I'm going to like having you as a son-in-law at all. Well, Sally, don't mean half what you say, Duncan, and neither do you. Here come the refreshment. Yes, sir. The one with three mint sprigs has double whiskey, gentlemen. I'll bring along some tea for Miss Sally. Thank you, William. Oh, William, have you seen Mr. Pendlin about? No, sir. He done rode off to some meet another up to River. It seemed they're getting together some kind of a volunteer militia. Militia? What's this about the militia, William? What, Valette? How lovely you look. Thank you, cousin Duncan. Now then, William, what's this about a militia? Well, I don't know, Miss Valette. They say they're fixing to ride again the Yankees. How terrific and thrilling. Oh, I do hope the fightin' breaks out soon. Valette, you don't know what you're saying. Oh, yes, I do. And you'll be in there too, Duncan, when the time comes. I pray, God, it'll never come, Valette. Everybody's so serious. Goodness, you think I'd said something terrible. Well, you did. Now, don't you children start quarreling again? Well, there's Mr. Pendlin turning into the drive. Wow, there's a whole troop of them. It must be the militia. Mr. Pendlin's riding at the head of them. Good evening, folks. Miss Valette. Miss Sally. Gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, you've been holding something from me. Where did you get that handsome uniform? Oh, that's my old Texas militia getup. I brought it along in my trunk. I thought I might need it before I got back home. And I was right. What do you mean, Pendleton? I thought something's been fired on, Duncan. Something? You sure? News just came. The boys and I are making the rounds of the county, raising the militia for the fightin'. I see. Aren't you comin' along with us, Duncan? No. No, I'm not. Never heard of a bet but shuckin' his duty before, Duncan. He doesn't mean it, Mr. Pendleton.  Now, Valette, don't talk like that. We've got no quarrel against the Yankees. They're Americans, the same as we are. Those hotheads over in South Carolina want us to see that's their business. But as long as Mississippi's still in the Union, my duty is to the United States.  Well, anyway, we was hopin' to pick up a few mounts from your stables to pack our supplies, Duncan. Well, you're welcome, too, and Pendleton. Yes, I reckon the bedside's raised good brave horses anyway. And it? And if I may trouble you for my locket I gave to you, Duncan. What, Valette? Please, Duncan. I'm serious. As you say. Mr. Pendleton, I meant this locket for a fighter. A real man. So if you'll accept it from one whose prayers are going into the battle with you. Mr. Valette, I... I hardly know what to say. Don't say anything, Mr. Pendleton. Just kill as many Yankees as you can. Ma'am, if I wasn't so mad at them, I'd be spilling sorry for those Yankees right now. Look, Mr. Valette, this letter's for you. It's for Mr. Pendleton, I'll bet. fetch me the letter opener from over there, William. Yes, and, Mr. Valette. William. Whatever is all that singing back at the house? That's young Mr. Edward, Miss. He's training some of the field hands for the fighting. Field hands? For the fighting? Yes. He says if any gets a call for the army, we'll be needing them to protect us here at Portobello. That is, if any Yankees gets Vixberg.  The Yankees will never get to Vixberg.  I want to talk to you. Yes, and, Mr. Valette. Morning, Valette. Morning, Madam. Morning, Father. Morning, my dear. Here's a little package that came with the letter, Valette. William brought it to me by mistake. Oh, thanks, Father. I'll open it when I finish the letter. Who is it from, darling, Mr. Pendleton? No, from Charlie Tolliver, and it sure is amusing. Listen to this, Mother. Dear Valette, I know you would love me if you could see me in a fine blue pants I borrowed off the Yankee gentleman the other day. As he was about seven foot tall, I can truthfully say that my new pants cover an honest heart. Isn't that just like Charlie? Go on, darling. What did you want to see me for, Valette? I had to sit down. I'm reading a letter from Charles. Oh, what does old Charlie say? You can read it yourself later. Oh, read me the rest of it, Valette. That's about all there is amusing in it. Then there's a post script. Mother, what is it, honey? Mother, listen. I haven't time to write you a new letter as we're in the midst of a retreat from Shiloh. Pendleton is no longer with us. He wanted you to have the locket pay to give to some other soldier. Said it made him fight so brave. It might make a real good soldier win the war. He died with your name on his lips, Valette. The locket. That's what the package has in it. Poor, poor boy. Oh, well, it's not. I think I want to be alone for a while. Sis, you let the locket. I never want to see it again. Pendleton. My best friend, and now this disaster at Shiloh. Do you realize what that means, Dad? I'm afraid I do, son. Poor Valette. I wonder how Duncan will take this news. Well, Duncan's all right, Sally. You see, men like him have to know in their minds what they're fighting for. Well, I think I'd better go and try to comfort Valette if I can. If I can be of any help. How did you know, ma'am? Father. Yes, son? Will you give me the little bay mare? Of course, Edward. You're going too? I've got to, Father. Without saying goodbye to your mother? Yes. Don't you think that's best? Yeah, I think it is, son. Well, goodbye, Father. Goodbye, son. God be with you. Bye, Edward. He, uh, he went out. How's Valette? She's better. He asked me to bring the locker, Charles, and bags. Oh. Where is it? It was right here on the table. I think Edward took it with him. Olden. But he can't. You shouldn't have let him. He's only a boy, Malcolm. War has a curious effect on people, Sally. It makes them grow up quickly. Yes, I... I knew I couldn't keep him any longer. Did you hear the size of Cousin Valette? You can't very well prevent your cousin, Duncan. I was sorry to hear about poor Pendleton. You're sorry. You stay here safe at Portobello. Feeling sorry while men are dying in the cumberland. Still sending the lambs off to slaughter, aren't you, Valette? First Pendleton, then your baby brother. Edward went because he saw his duty. I had nothing to do with it. You helped him to see his duty, didn't you?  You know, I'd be careful how I handed that locket around if I were you young lady. Seems to be bad luck. I didn't even know about the locket. He... he just took it.  With your blasted souvenirs and mementos and your everlasting cotton into anything with two legs and a uniform. He's not true. You say that, but you know I'm speaking the truth. And Edward, you started on him when he was just a little boy. Shown in the pictures and the books and praying for the day when you'd be bragging about your younger brother and his fine uniform.  Bloodthirster, that's what you are. A Yankee scalp. That was your price for your love when you gave it to Pendleton. Liar. Truth hurts, doesn't it?  You are listening to So Red the Rose, starring Joan Bennet on The Cavalcade of America sponsored by DuPont. Maker of better things for better living through chemistry. 63, the disaster at Shiloh. Lee marches northward to patch Johnston's tragically decimated forces in the Cumberland. Stonewall Jackson, dead of his wounds, a chancellors bill. Then the news that strikes the very heart of the South. Vicksburg. Vicksburg has fallen and Sherman is marching to the sea. With the passing of those years of war and desolation, our play continues. At Portobello, her plantation home near Vicksburg, Mississippi, ballet bedford played by Joan Bennet is standing beneath the portico. A wagon draws up the drive and a man helps a weeping wolf down from the seat. Duncan. Mother. What is it? Oh, very less. Darling. What is it, Mother? Duncan. What is it? Look under the canvas in the back of the wagon if you feel strong. Edward. It's Edward. I knew it. He's come home, Brallet. My little boy. Your baby brother. Their late father's gone. And Edward. Doctor. We're all alone now. We all need each other. Let's not be bad friends no longer. My husband and my son. Two of the finest men who ever lived. It's not right, Brallet. Duncan was right all along. Only we wouldn't listen to him. Darling, please don't. We wanted our men to be brave and fight. For what? To welcome them home in a bundle of canvas in the back of a dirty old wagon. William. That's the glory we encouraged our men to fight for. Come, mother. William and I'll help you up the stage. No, Brallet. You wait. William, you go with Miss Sally. Yes, sir. Good day, now, Miss Sally. Don't take on slow. William. You tell the groom to settle the great jail in right away. Yes, sir. I'll do that, sir. Duncan. You aren't going to leave us. You can't leave us now. Now, I'm going, Brallet. To fight. Oh. There's the locket. Edward had it clutched in his hand when they found you. Would you like to have the locket back, Duncan? You were the first to have it, you know. Well, I want you to have it, Duncan. Always. Oh, darling. But don't go, Duncan. Now that we're friends again, I can't bear the thought of you leaving me.   I'm not going to say goodbye to you, Duncan. I can't. I know now how mother felt when she said goodbye to father. Listen, my darling. If you know that, you can do anything. Believe me. I do believe you. That's better. Here comes William now. Leading the Greg Geldin. The groom's ain't there, Mr. Duncan. They'll all be leaving. We'll be left alone. All alone. You let those tariffs out a bit, will you? Yes, sir. Never you fret, Mr. Valette. Y'all won't be all alone. Not so long as old William lives. Thank you. Don't take away. Well, Valette. Goodbye, Duncan. Goodbye, my darling. Goodbye. Goodbye, Mr. Duncan. We'll be waiting for you to come back, Duncan. Mr. Duncan makes a fine-looking soldier, Mr. Valette.  Proud of him, William, yes. And ashamed of myself. I'm over here, darling. Why are you sitting here in the dark? I was afraid to light the candle. You didn't come back for so long. Real near. Bayon is near as old as mother. There. Now, that's more cheerful, isn't it? Yes, it's better. With the light, I reckon. What did they see in town, Valette? They say the troops are headed straight this way. Our house will be in Yankee territory before long. I was so worried about you on the road. I told you they're not that close yet, mother. I wish I knew what to do. If only Duncan were here, he'd know what to do. We don't even know whether Duncan's dead or alive. Do you realize that? Maybe soon. It won't matter to us anymore. Mother, it's not like you to talk that way. What's that? Someone's at the door. Put out the candle, mother, quick. Mother, go and get William. I'll look outside. Oh, really? I think we're still hanging. Mother, get William quick. It's a Yankee soldier. He's wounded or something. Can you stand on your feet, Yankee? Let me carry him, will you, Miss? Please, I'm begging you. All the men have his way.  Come into the house. Here, I'll help you. William. Yes, sir, Miss Belly. Mother, lock the candle again. What is it, Belly? Never mind now. William, help me get this man of a library. We'll put him on the couch there. Yes, sir, Miss Belly. I can handle him a little. Belly!  He's a Yankee. They'd kill us too if they find him here. Close the door after you, William. And get one more than mothering for his wounds. Yes, ma'am. Belly! You turn him right over to the soldiers. If you don't, I will. Mother. I think if we were a Yankee family and that man were dunking. Well, mother. You're right, honey. Yes. You're right. Open up, ma'am! Open it up! Who is it? This is our ma'am, ma'am. Open up and can't wait on us. What is it, gentlemen? We're looking for a Yankee prisoner that got loose. We've seen him coming this way. We'll have to search the house. What? I've never been so unsettled in my life. You don't think the Bedford's would hide Yankee's, do you? Now, look, ma'am. I haven't got time to explain to your data. We don't trust you, but orders is orders. What's the matter, ma'am? What's going on here? Duncan. It's you. I'm sorry, Valet. But these men are acting under military orders. You have to let them in. All right, Duncan. Take them upstairs and let them start searching there first. Thank you, Valet. All right, men. Follow me up. Valet. What are you going to do? I'm going to warn the Yankee and the cover's Yankee. Here, this is my brother's jacket. Put it on. They'll hang me, for sure, if they find me. I'll tell them you're my brother. Look, they'll hang me, miss, for sure. Not in this great jacket they won't. Here, get into it. Yes, thank you, miss. As soon as they've gone, we'll tend your wounds. Valet. What's this? Who's that on the couch? Oh, Duncan. Please. He's just a boy. He's too young to die. Yankee. What's your regimen? Come on. How many were there? Answer me. Forte, hello. You're choking me. Scouting trooper, the advance guard. Duncan, stop it. He's wounded. What are you doing in that great jacket? I gave it to him. You did. Yankee, get it off and put on your own. Duncan, what are you going to do? I'm going to turn him over to our men, of course. But they'll hang him. Valet, this is war. But you can't send this boy to his death. Oh, you've changed, Duncan. You've changed, Valet. I remember you making a man promise to bring your Yankee scowl. That was... That was before I knew I loved him. Duncan, you'll save him. Please, please, for me. Come in. Sergeant Stover reporting, Captain Bedford. We've searched the house but didn't find him. Hey, who's that? This is Miss Valet's brother, Edward. He was sent home wounded and he's just beginning to recover. I see. Well, hadn't we better get started, Captain? Right away, Sergeant Stover. Hey, Edward. Get well soon and join us where the Third Mississippi is encamped. Well, Valet. Goodbye, again, Duncan. And thank you. Yankee! What's the matter? He's dead, Mother. The Yankee's dead. Oh, poor boy. Let me draw the covers over him, Valet. I wanted to save him. But it's too late. I wonder if it's too late for everything. Oh! All right, man. The soldiers again. We've searched the house. Maybe Duncan's with him. He'll know what to do. It's not Duncan. It's the Yankees. Just tell us who those soldiers were in here a few minutes ago. But...  This is the Union Army you're talking about. Yankees! Who's that there on the bed? Oh, please. Make that sheet open. That's right. Rebel soldier, too. Well, quite a nest you have here. We'll soon fix that. He's one of your own men, a Union soldier. In a Confederate uniform? But it's true he was wounded. We tried to save him. Yeah, so I see. Well, ladies, under the circumstances, I have only one choice. I don't make these decisions, you understand? They're made for me. What are you going to do? I'll give you just two minutes to get your things out of here. Start packing. Oh, two minutes! I'll be generous and give you five. Corporal Mason? Yes, sir. Can I give the signal here to set fire to this house? Don't let your men leave till it's burned to the ground. They draw our mother. My daughter. Fetching wood. And us. Living in a slave cabin. I never thought I'd live to see the day. It's a roof of our heads, my love. And when Duncan gets home, we'll build another house. Duncan's not coming home, child. We've got to face that. We'd have heard from him long before now. I know he's alive, mother. I feel it. We'll build a small house. There'll only be three of us now. We still got the land. I'm strong. Mother. What is it, Relish? Duncan. I hear Duncan's voice. Oh, you're all tired out, honey. It's just your imagination. But, mother, I did. I distinctly heard Duncan's voice. For heaven's sake, Valet, close the door. Make the stone smaller. Wait. Now I hear something. Listen. Relish. Relish. Mother, it is. It's Duncan. Relish. He's over there. See, Valet, over across the brook. Here we are, Duncan. Over here, mother. Hear me, that's all. I'm going to meet him, darling. Hurry. Duncan. Duncan. Duncan. Oh, darling, Duncan. It is you. Really, you. Duncan. Oh, Valet. Take me in your arms, darling, quick. Oh, darling. So when I saw the house was burned down, I thought I'd lost you forever. Valet, you don't. And that's all with me. We'd like you to meet our star, John Bennett. Spokesman for the Cavalcade players.  Thank you, Mr. Carlett. It has been fun doing so Red The Rose on the radio. I like it immensely, both as a novel and a picture. And I hope the Cavalcade audience who know it as a book and a film liked our play tonight as much as I like playing. We hope so too, Miss Bennett. As you know, our show next week is also based on a bestseller and a hit picture. It's Edna Ferber's great novel, Cimarron, and our star is Irene Dunn. We're doing the program in Hollywood, Miss Bennett, and we hope you'll drop around and see us. Well, if I'm back next week, I will, Mr. Collier. In any event, you can count on me as a listener. We'll do that. And again, our thanks for tonight's performance. Next week, the Cavalcade of America stars Irene Dunn in our radio version of Cimarron, the powerful story of the Oklahoma Land Rush by Edna Ferber, which was a bestseller when it was published, and a great motion picture when it was produced by RKO. At this time, we would like to remind our listeners that now is the time to join the Red Cross in its membership drive for 1941. Your Red Cross button is a badge of honor for humanity and national defense. Supporting Miss Bennett on tonight's production of So Red The Rose was Jeanette Nolan as Sally, and Carl Swenson as Duncan. The orchestra and the original musical score was under the direction of Don Burry. On the Cavalcade of America, your announcer is Clayton Collier, sending best wishes from Dupont. First of the National Broadcasting Company.


The Nigerian army has warned its personnel against being partisan in the coming elections. The general officer commanding to the vision Major General Amino Chinade spoke when he paid a walking visit to four big-grade Nigerian army in Benin City, the Adostated Capital. He stressed the need for the men of the force to always discharge their duties with utmost professionalism as well walk hand-in-hand with all those security agencies. We are all aware we are drawing closer to electioneering activities. Indeed, the electioneering campaign has begun last month on the 28th specifically. You must know that the military is a neutral organization and you must remain a political and make sure that you do not indulge in any activities that will portray the Nigerian army in bad light and by extension soiling your own names and denting your own careers. You should know that whenever you are called upon on any electioneering duty, you must abide by code of conduct for operation self-conduct which is election duties and you must be guided by rules of engagement and international best practices and you must and I repeat you must remain neutral and a political.


Hey you guys it's time for another product review in this time We're going to be reviewing the D'Avore Vatican wild cactus deep conditioning hair mask Now this is one of many products that I have reviewed by this particular line and so far I really enjoyed all of their deep conditioners with the exception of maybe one or two, but even with those exceptions I think it's you could still purchase them and add certain ingredients to them and make them your own So this particular product I purchased from Amazon And so let's just get right into it. Okay, so it's already sealed. So I'm gonna have to go ahead Take this off and the good thing about all of these products is that it's a very Fairly large container now girl. They did not Excuse me ma'am serve whoever filled this up. I mean my products be filled up to the very top. It's It's filled to here. Okay, it's okay. That's okay. The fragrance has a Conditioner Sent to it with a hint of like a Like a perfume. The texture is very thick. You can see that I'm gonna place it on my hand here So you can see it very very thick and I find that all of their hair masks are deep conditioners Or they can consistency which I appreciate So it looks like garlic the color is like that of the inside and the outside. I should say of garlic itself Um, this is smell like garlic garlic. Thank god. Let's look at the ingredients They always put the print on here very small. So it contains coconut cactus and garlic um, I really can't see much on How to use it or you know because there's a big label on the back that's kind of blocking that out So it says for a week and breaking hair. I personally know that garlic And garlic rinses are great for your hair. I've never used anything with cactus But I have used products with garlic. You know the routine girl I'm going to go ahead and cleanse my hair and then I'm going to come back with my hair soaking wet I'm going to apply a generous amount of this product to my hair And I have some Caps I've used two caps girl this side and this side and I'm going to leave it on for 30 minutes. Okay All right, so I sectioned off the side went in with a bunch of the product which I normally do I always use a bunch or I I apply deep conditioners or hair mask very liberal So going in in the front section with a lot and I can already tell The first with girl.  I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to be able to do this. Um It's just the fragrance is too overpowering for me and my senses and my allergies. I can't do it. Um Uh you guys Hmm Nope, I can't use this this the smell is too it's way too overpowering. I'm gonna have to go ahead and watch this out Hmm I don't even know Yeah, it's way too much for me if you can handle fragrances. I do apologize Um I don't know what to say. I'm oh, yeah. Yeah. No, sorry So you guys I know I ended that review abruptly my hair looks different because I put in a protective style um That was a no-go for me That smell of that particular deep conditioner was so overpowering while I was using in the shower that Excuse me while I was even rinsing it out the shower. I pined it on was a no-go. That's why I wrapped it up Um, it rinsed out nicely my curls were popping as my hair dried It was just on this side, right when I tell you my hair is so dry No matter the amount of moisturizer I add my hair is extremely dry I went back on amazon and read a few reviews And a couple of people said the same thing that the hair excuse me that the product left the hair extremely drying And a lot of people they complained about the fragrance. So if you are someone who is very Zesticular and sensitive to smells you have allergies or you have asthma stay away from that particular from this particular product because No, so Um, very disappointed very very disappointed, but it is but it is all right you guys take care Thank you so much for watching. Bye


Hello everyone, this is the International Introduction to Writer Development, okay? Hey, Miklos, I'm here with LePriPriZ for a while now. I initially worked on the right RTF important export as a student and then focused on writer in general and I now do this at Colbert. The focus for this talk will be to give you a kind of guide or tutorial on writer internals because it seemed that we have reasonably good reference documentation in case you want to go to this or that class, C++ class and understand what it does then perhaps it will have good oxygen documentation or we have some nice wiki pages or some readme's that describe this and that but how to get started, how to get a good overview is more tricky. Perhaps one of the resources is a similar writer course from like almost 10 years ago so it seemed like a good idea to refresh that and build some material that is up to date at least as of this year. So first when you do any kind of writer development then there are a number of tools that can help you. It's good in case you are aware of them because then you can search for them and see what they do, what if you don't even know that there is such a tool then it's very hard to search. So be sure that you are reasonably familiar with Git, doing Git log on files, running Git blame on chunks of code, doing Git by side to see where some good or bad behavior started is useful. Make sure that you can navigate the code weights efficiently. That might be with some ID integration. There is this CTAX or ID UTAX that can index the code base for you offline so that you can quickly jump to the definition of some number function. Be aware of the DOX LibreOffice org which is an oxygen output for the code base. There you can nicely see if a certain C++ class has which subclasses and stuff like this. Be familiar with the debugger. Only know it as GDB but it can be any single as. Note that the UNO API has specific debugging tools like this document inspector in the menu item or for example x-ray is a basic extension that can do this for you. Be familiar with the various units that we use. There is in the DevTools Git repo there is a typography conversion to which will quickly convert like centimeters to twips for you and so on. Be sure that you are familiar with these units. Be sure that you have at least one editor where you are comfortable with and it's focused on at the time. So for myself that's who I am but it can be e-max or vscode or whatnot but be sure that you are you are affected with that one. In many cases there will be some larger amount of data that you want to like print and interpret. Understand that we have this side debug macro which is for debugging output locally that uses the kind of built-in pretty printer of objects for so for example writer cursor position is pretty printed nicely. Also we use pretty printing in other cases like in odt or docx files it's it's really a one line or zip file in a xml file in a zip file. So in case your editor can do that then then you can open search zip files in the editor edit the xml files in place have pretty printing for them. Also for binary doc files we have a doc without one which will give you some more or less readable output of what's in the binary. And there are these various specifications for these five formats it's it's good to know where they are and in case some element or some some some markup is is unfamiliar to you then it makes sense to read it. So where is the code for writer? It has like writer core LibreOffice core has many modules. Here is a subset that is potentially interesting for for writer hacking. There is the SW module standing for style writer but that's where most of the code is. Some of the odf import export code is in the xml office module. There is a dedicated writer filter for the docx and rtf import or the shared docx part. There is the ox module and there is a format where the oxml import and export and yeah that happens for the for the math equations. Let's try to go through the various layers of writer so there is the document model which is like the the c++ classes representing what will be like edited by the UI and what's loaded from files and what serialized to files. So the document model is kind of the model from the smee model view controller paradigm. Our view is called the layout and in the code ways the controller is kind of the shell in case you want to have a mental model of that. SW docx is one open writer document and inside that the most important building block is a list of programs and we call those tax nodes so the SW docx has a list of nodes. And writer has then various other containers for the document model like it has a list of page styles, it has writer sections, inside paragraphs the individual pieces of like characters having the same character formatting that's tax portions. This is more or less maps to what vert has which is used as a reference in in many cases. So in vert has sections and sometimes we map those to page styles and sometimes to writer sections. Paragraphs are the same and on their side is these smaller things inside the paragraphs are quadrants but it's really similar to tax portions. So one question is how properties are stored inside the tax node. So the SW tax node has the paragraph tax is a unicode string and then we have each and every property on that paragraph is stored as a pool item. The pool item is something like it can store a string, a number, a boolean or something and it's stored in a nice thumbs up which is a container for these pool items. So it's kind of a map which has integer keys and it cannot basically any value. This key is called which ID and for writer there is a specific C++ header which contains all of these IDs. Then so what you see in the in the in the plus diagram here is at a layout level we will have a tax frame for the program and the document model level we will have a tax node for the program and that has a unicode string and then there will be the the various pool items in this attribute array for the for the paragraph and inside the frame we will have at the layout level we will have the paragraph the the portions we will get that in a minute. So a bit more words on this container for the for the pool items this is more or less it's a map it's a special one it knows what are the ranges of keys which are possible to store there if you don't if you want to store a pool item which is outside those ranges that will be ignored and you can debug that like what is stored there with the count that's you know for the character attributes that a separate container we call those hints and then hints may have just a starting point for example a field is always a single dummy character or you can have a start and end for example you mark three characters as both then you want to have a start and an end for them. Now in case you want to debug the document model you have a number of approaches and it's good to be familiar with these because in different cases different ones are are more useful. So one thing is that in gdb you can call this get nodes function and that will give you a list of paragraphs in the like inside gdb itself another one is that there is a document model axiomal dump that you can press shift 12 or shift after 12 or after 12 to generate the layout down for the document model dump and in the current directory there will be an smo file for you and that will contain c++ pointers and on on kinds of internal details and the last thing is that there is this extension called xray that you can run in it's kind of a improved print statement and you can run that inside for example the basic id and that gives you a good access to the various uno properties and an object and what functions are supported but in uno interfaces and so on. It's basically a debugger but it has domain knowledge about our you know concept and based on that sometimes that's a better way. I see that I'm a little bit behind schedule so I will skip the actual interactive demo what the point is that inside the sw module in case you're searching the ring wisdom you can you can find the instructions how to get the xray and axiomal dump working and it's a good idea to try that out with some two paragraph simple document. Now to the uno API this is something public so we try to not change it but at the same time most of the odl operator is using the uno API so whenever you add a new feature then typically you want to expose that in the uno API as well. The hope is that this is a bit higher level than the row c++ code which means that it's possible to refactor or change the c++ core without breaking uses of the uno API so there is a bit of separation between the two. Then I think a new feature my preferred way is that I always do uno API right after having the document model because then I can exercise the feature from a simple basic macro. Another approach is that to implement the UI early and then you can just use the UI that also works it has the downside that perhaps somebody will try the UI too early and we conclude that it's broken because of course the feature is not yet ready and complain so that's one problem there but it's fair enough to use that approach as well. Then for the actual properties the way we expose them on the uno API is that most pool item has a query value and put value function and based on that you can map uno properties to one part of a pool item. So one pool item is mapped to one or more uno properties type of comment. Then we get to the layout. A layout is basically a giant cache. You can see that in case our document model is just a list of programs then it's very expansive to actually paint pixels on the screen because you don't know where are the pages and so on. So what we try to do is we create a representation on how things will appear on the screen like what will be the screen position or the logical position of a program what will be its left top coordinate what will be the right one the bottom one where will be the pages and so on. We try to initially build this and later we incrementally update that and then based on that the actual rendering will be somewhat cheap because the layout already contains exactly what piece of text to paint where and so on. So there is this mechanism that for each and every node there is a frame so for text nodes you have text frames and so on. So here is some diagram on how things look on the layout. So there is one root frame and then in this case it's in the document has two pages and then inside that you can have headers, footers, body tags and inside the body tags you can have the text frames and these can be split between pages and there are various pointers to navigate with this graph with these three up down to the next one previous one and even logically connecting things like a paragraph at the end of the page and at the start of the next page it's a follow or a precede. Inside the paragraph there is no more frames it's called portions. We have a dedicated portion type for the inter paragraph then at the start of the line and the normal line portion on one item once held in this kind of table. Then we have notifications between the nodes to the frames. This is called this LW modifier client mechanism and in general this is like one model saying it can notify one or more layouts but then kind of recently we have added support for this layout level, a red line like change tracking, hiding and showing. So I know there are cases where multiple paragraphs are merged to a single text frame or a single text frame is visible with multiple single text nodes is visible with multiple text frames so this merge paragraph is one way to kind of realize this through that one model position is one or more layout object. Then one as an aside in the word case the complex geometry shapes like triangles and rounding corners and whatnot can contain complex content in writer core. These are represented with a combination of a draw shape with complex geometry and then there is kind of an invisible writer frame, text frame inside that which can contain the complex content but at the UNO API and UI this separation is not visible it's just a pair that works together. Then few tours is like storing the data with the document model and loading it back in practice we try to do a really really good job with ODF and then for every other format we try a good job but it can always happen that there is something in writer which is not stored to one of these formats. For the audio filter most of the code is using the UNO API and it's in this XMLF module. Some writer specific bits are inside writer core this filter slash XML directory but that's really rare so that's more like in case it's not in XMLF and you wonder what is the magic then this is the magic but otherwise it's not that frequent that you need to dive into that code as a bug site and otherwise in case we extend the ODF filter then we always try to write up some schema bits on like what is the new markup and you can submit ODF proposals to have your new markup included in the next version of ODF. Then docax is the other important filter because that's the majority of the new word documents are created in those formats and people expect that we are able to write those those formats so the import side is in the writer filter uses the UNO API there is this there is some code generation involved there I will get to that in a moment and it has its own debugging output this swd bug writer filter output which is some XML file which logs the traffic between the two steps of docax import one is some tokenization and then handling those tokens and the export side has a much simpler architecture it's a subclass from the binary doc export and it it's just a C++ code no UNO API no code generation for the short parts of the maximal like the docax filter the shape important export is shared with xlsx and pptx there is also the not the new R shape markup drawing ML but the overall shape markup VML that's mostly interesting for exporter because on import time we only look at drawing them out and also math is kind of leaving it on its own board so it has its own oaximal import fast parser is an important concept nowadays even the odf filter is using that and initially just the oaximal filter was using that so we deal with a lot of namespace strings and element names and attribute names attribute values but we know what are the possible values there because it's in the spark so what we can do is to generate a large map for this and then first we map the strings to an integer and then we work with those IDs later which is cheaper than copying strings around and comparing these so X fast parser does this and the other thing is that you can easily end up with a huge C++ class handling the entire import for the single for the for the entire file format and what we try to do is especially in the odf filter is that for each and every xml element there is a dedicated C++ class we call these contacts and then when we see a sub element or a child element then we create a child contacts for that and that's how it works so it's good to familiarize yourself with the concept to how debugging and now for the lookax import part some code generation is is happening at build time so what we do is there is a model axiomal file which is the relax ng scheme from the axiomal spark but then we annotate that with our own information what we do is we take xml elements and attributes we we map xml elements to this property modifier tokens and that can contain attribute tokens and the rtf import does the same and then later when we handle the tokens we can have shared code between the two formats and what we do there is once the the oaxiomal relax ng scheme is is there we add matching resource xml elements and that defines how to map these xml elements and attributes to tokens now for the binary doc file its format is the oldest writer importer and exporter we used to have this binary star office format that used to be even older it was in the bin filter module but it's now removed and the important export is somewhat shared because in many cases really the what the file format has is more or less a memory dump of the order word structures assume it makes sense that we have one c++ class which knows how to let's say map one word section to something writer and then the same class will take care of reading the writer document and building the same structure and then we will write it to the to the stream it uses the internal API which means that sometimes it's time you need to type a lot of code to do something somewhat simple on the other hand it has random access to the document model that sometimes useful when we import then we can easily look back and look around and make decisions based on that let's say we are ending a program and we want to know what is the last floating table that we imported is it encoded in us or not that's very easy to do with full access random access to the internal document model it would not be that easy with uno apm and here again there is some xls and ppt parts shared like the shape markup or the shape binary format that's in the ms filter directory of the filter manual and when i started working on the binary dog format it was like very very hard because it's not that readable and i did not really find a good dump or that would give you some more readable xml like output for some binary file so i i took this ms o dump or project which already had nice xls and ppt support and i did a log one so you might want to use that when debugging so rtf rtf is my favorite one although it's kind of underused by no so it's not that relevant except perhaps for copy paste the export is shared with doc and docax it's the same subclass as doc and docax on the export side import is shared with docax physically we take these rtf control words and we turn them into tokens and then the tokenize the these tokens are handled by the same domain map or mapping from the word domain to the right or domain that will actually par from those unocons on the mac side this is really similar to to docax the import will generate o xml tokens and the the export is shared with docax as well now let's say that you have some understanding or how the codebase looks like you make some change and you want to test it test it as in like you want to make sure that ideally no old behavior is broken and you want to log down the new behavior so that it remains fixed the filter tasks are kind of easy especially in case you work with the odf or o xml because you can the the export result is is some xml so you can use export asserts there or for the import result you can assert what's in the document model and for the binary or rtf format that's a little bit more complicated and in general the rest is more tricky the it's the easy case is when you can find a similar task which already does something what you want and failing that what we typically do is look at how the ui normally exercises the piece of functionality look at in the divago of what c++ function course it does and try to kind of mimic what the ui does on the in the cpp in a task and that's how we can exercise some functionality and then accept the result then for the ui what we typically do is the the code is kind of parallel to the unia api so the unia api is kind of a ui and the actual ui is is another one if we would try to build fill in some item set with various properties fire the dialogue and once the dialogue is down we get back some item set and we will update the document model then it's good to not forget that we have some flying hub that tries to describe and the the functionality of the office here so in case you did some change then it's always a good idea to spend five minutes to see if the chain the old behavior was described in the hub and then update that or in case you added something new then try to extend the relevant hub page so that users have an understanding of what you try to implement and i briefly mentioned this udf is not just a specification similar to like docx or doc or rto but it's something that maintained by oasis and you can submit proposals there um so what we do is um there is uh of course we we always update the udf filter like add the new functionality there but then we submit a proposal to oasis and then um then we we our intention is that the next udf version will will have the feature um in the standard and then other udf implementers can also um implement that in in in their implementation so i guess that was more or less it um and in the last line in this last slide i have some bookmarks for you one thing is this uh writer development wiki page um which has a checklist for new features and has bookmarks for the udf implementer notes and the other thing is the sw module has a readme for and has bookmarks for further wiki pages do read that like um we spend some time on filling that in the useful content and like and in the from the o o build times there were also two other um i kind of um overviews or writer call that is also interesting to read i guess that was it thanks for your attention bye


Okay. Hey, welcome back everyone to our second lecture on BC314 and media and technology. And I've just been sharing some of the software platforms that we use at APC for our church work. I'm just sharing it with you. I'm not saying everybody has to use it or everybody has to do the same thing, just sharing some of the things that we find useful and that help us in the ministry work. So let's just pick up from where we pause. Let me share the PDF and then also share some stuff. I was talking about a church app. So we are actually rebuilding our church app. So it's useful. I mean, again, what we are planning to do, the roadmap for this product is that we are going to be having our congregation really relate, I mean, use the church app for registering for events, accessing a lot of our content and doing a lot of things through the church app itself. So that's kind of the direction we're going and so we are building it ourselves. Now, for our e-learning, we are using an open source product, which is called open edX. So, and some of you are already familiar with this. Now, before the pandemic, we had explored some of these e-learning portals. So we were thinking, okay, Bible College is there. Why don't we kind of also set up an e-learning platform? And we had looked at a open source product called Moodle. And then we also looked at open edX.  This was before the pandemic. And then, and the idea was, why don't we, you know, record our Bible College lectures, put it there so that people could use it. That was the motivation. And then the pandemic happened. So we were forced to close down physical Bible College. We went online with Google Classroom, like what we're doing right now. And that's when we said, hey, why don't we also extend this on an e-learning platform? And so for us, it was already easy because prior to the pandemic, we were already, you know, playing around with Moodle and open edX. And our preference was open edX. And we were just setting up some, I would say, test classes and doing all that. So immediately we said, okay, we're going to go with open edX. Let's set it up. Let's get our e-learning platform up. So in 2020, sorry, was it 2020? 2021, I think, yes. So in 2021, we set up our e-learning platform. It uses a free product called open edX. And it's actually very easy to use, but easy to set up the classes and the coursework. So we trained all our Bible College faculty saying, okay, this is how you have to use it. So all of them know how to use it. And there were other people. Initially, we had assistants. We had some people who would help our Bible College faculty to do all the setting up of the classes. And eventually all of them learned how to do it. So it's very easy to learn platform and it's free. So here again, you can download this product and set it up and use it. And many of you are aware about our product, the e-learning platform. You can see our e-learning platform. I just switched to the screen. Can you see the e-learning platform? Okay. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, so many of you are familiar with this. So this, you know, we actually don't charge it for this. We keep everything free. And if people want to contribute, they can. And so we have, you know, students from 105 countries accessing this resource, our resources.  And we can always improve on it. We are planning to actually, for the future, you know, record different short, short courses, put it out here. People can come and learn on their own whenever they want, so on. So this actually really helped us extend everything we're doing out to more people. We have, for website analytics, it means to know what's happening on our websites. Again, they're using a free product called Mutmo. So this basically, it tracks what's happening on all our websites. So we know what is a traffic, what are the people coming to the website. I mean, from which part of the world are they coming to the website? How many visitors we've had and so on. So we use this in addition, of course, to Google Analytics. So we have both of these products connecting to our websites and giving us information on our websites. For our mail server, that means this is where we set up our email IDs. Again, this is a free open source product. We use PostFix. The reason we set up our own mail server is because, you know, we don't have to pay. So if you use a hosting service provider, they will charge for every mailbox you create. So every mail ID they will charge, like, you know, I don't know what it is, let's say $5 a month or something. But that's a lot of money if you have, you know, 50, 60 or 100 email IDs. That's a lot of money to pay. So we set up our own mail server. Again, it's using a free product, PostFix. And here we just keep creating all our email IDs. So when you add new stuff, we give them an email ID. It doesn't cost us other than hosting our mail server, which is a fixed, you know, cost running on a server. We can create all different email IDs and so on, manage it ourselves. And PHP List is, again, another open source product that manages email IDs of people. So I think we may have 30 or 40,000 email IDs in that on PHP List. And so these are people from all over the world and who have subscribed or who have contacted us in some way and they get added to these various lists. And so when we want to send an email, an email out, a communication out, we send it through PHP List. So it's like our, it manages the email IDs and it also manages our outgoing email communications to broadcast to these various lists. So if you want to do that, you can use this free product called PHP List.  Another product we use for inventory and asset management is again an open source product called Snipe IT. Now I'm not logging in there because it has all the license numbers and all the details of products. But so whenever we buy a product with the hardware or software, we first, as a part of our procedure, we tell other people to enter it into our asset management. So especially expensive things. I'm not talking about small, small things, but, you know, if you buy a new mixer or speakers or microphones, or computers or software licenses for a software license product, everything gets entered into our asset management system first before it is given out to people to use. And we also record who it's given out to. So we buy a laptop, a new person joins, we buy a laptop, okay, this laptop, it's entered here, it's given to this person. So we know who has what device, because there are so many staff working and so many things, so many locations and all that. And if a product, you know, is broken and something, and it's no longer used, we update it here. So we know that this product is gone. But this helps us manage all our assets, software and hardware assets. And keeps a record of their condition, you know, maybe they're gone for repair or they are in good condition. So that's how we track all our inventory and all our license numbers and everything is kept here. So we know, okay, what license are we using, for which product, et cetera. So that's this, again, it's an open source product. Anyone can use it. That's what we use. Our Bookstack app is what I showed you, it's our repository where we keep all our documents for different areas of ministry, so that people can go and access it based on that area of ministry. They can go and access it. These two products we don't, the church metrics, I just put it here, is if you want to track your attendance and so on. We, right now, we track our attendance in simple spreadsheets. But you can use, you can set your church up on churchmetrics.com and put data in there.  We used to use it for a little time for a few years. Then we stopped using it. But I just shared that information here. Right now we just track on Google spreadsheets. And so we know, you know, what our average, what our attendance is week by week. So we have real numbers. So we can say, you know, APC central, eight o'clock service, so many, this the average attendance, 1030, etc. So we have that for every year, you know, all the years that we've been tracking it. There's again a free open source enterprise resource planning software. If you want to use one software to manage your whole enterprise, you can do that. But of course they have a lot of restrictions and limitations. But I just put this in here in case you are, you might be interested in looking at it. So this just gives you an overview of different software products or platforms that you can use for church and so on. And what I just want to mention is that, what I'd rather want to say is I want to encourage you in your church, in your ministry, to try and leverage these software products or platforms to whatever extent you can. It's going to make managing data and, you know, doing the ministry work now that much more efficient and also it helps you reach out to more people. So that's our motivation, right? How can we reach more people? And so these software tools and platforms helps us do that. And so although it's an investment of time and energy into, you know, people are needed to set up these platforms, the benefit is you can serve a lot more people. So keep this in mind as you think about these software platforms and, yeah, these are useful, okay? Any questions on software platforms so far? Anybody has any questions or any thoughts? So generally, do you feel that church should take or make use of technology in this sense or do you think it disconnects us from people and make us less connected to people, you know, leveraging software platforms to do ministry? Do you think churches should do it or do you think it's actually an hindrance to ministry? I think that just should do it because it helps in doing it in a very organized way and also makes it easy for us to manage rather than doing it in a hard copy way. It's always good to use a software tool. It makes the work easy and helps us to be more organized. Thank you. Anyone else? I think if the church can keep the cones of technology into check, we must use it because this is the way forward. Otherwise we will be left backward. Thank you. That's true. That's true. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay. Okay. All right. So next week, I want to just deal with, I think we'll finish next week. Okay. Sorry, there's a question on the chat. I see Subhash's comment. Yes, church should do it. Thank you. Subhash is sharing your thoughts. Rosalind's question. I have a question. Should all these software be used for growing churches, even a small gathering also can make use of this? Yeah.  You can pick, you choose whatever is relevant. But I would say even small congregations can start using these, you know, especially if you have people in the church who know, you know, they are IT people. And for them, it's a way to serve the church. It's an opportunity for them to say, come, you're good in IT. Please come help us. I've set up one or two of these things, you know, so even small congregations can start. And I would say, you know, one of the most important things are like the important things would be one is to manage the data of people, which is, you know, their name, their phone number, the email address. That information is you need to maintain because if somebody you want to call somebody, you don't have the number, how to call them, how to reach out, you know, so having a church management system is good. Similarly, to want to send email, suppose you want to send an email, you know, to 200 people, 100, 200 people or more. If you have an email list, it's easy to send. Otherwise, physically sitting trying to send email to 200 people is very difficult. So even a small congregation can start using it and these soft platforms can handle large volumes of data. So even if the church grows to many thousands of people, it will be good. You can handle it. Yeah. And nowadays, you know, a lot of young people are actually good in technology. So if you get them involved, it's a way for them to serve in the church. Okay. So next week, I think it will be a last session. I want to talk about two things. One is artificial intelligence. And I'm not going into great detail, but just to talk about the pros and cons, you know, how it is affecting church administration and ministry and so on. You know, I heard, I don't know personally, but I heard one pastor. He preached a message, then he asked his congregation, you know, who wrote the sermon. They all said, we thought you wrote it. Then he said, no, no, no, I, I got chat to write the sermon and I just came and preached it. So that is, that is one extreme where this, this whole artificial intelligence is going. But then there is also some good things that can happen. I just want to talk about it and think about the pros and cons, you know, how can we use it in a positive way? And how we, what we should avoid, you know, I don't think I will ever preach a sermon written by chat to PT. I don't think I'll ever do that, but some people are doing it. What, you know, what to say about that. But in a, just we'll discuss, we'll discuss next week and the pros and cons, you know, of artificial intelligence. We'll talk a little bit about that. And then the last section is about data privacy.  Other people are interested in that data. And that has happened, you know, some, some business might have come, has, has come. So as he has a business, he wants to promote it. So I don't know what is, you know, whether it was innocently asking or whether the motivation was wrong. I don't know. But he came and said, can you, can the church send an email to all these people about what he, his business has to offer? Now he's a member of your congregation. What will you do? You know, what will you do? He's a member of the congregation. He's not asking for a bad thing. He's saying, hey, can you send information about the service he's offering?  To all the people you have a data, you're the database, you have so many people. Can you do it? So that's where then you need to know what to do, right? And for us, we have a very strict policy. We don't do that, right? Because people have given us their data as a church for the church to use to serve them. So the church, if we have an announcement to make, we have some information to share from the church about ministry, okay, we will share. But we cannot allow somebody else to use this data for some other other reasons like business, so on. So those are things we need to be careful about when we are using software, you know, because people have interested their data to you. Like I said, you know, we probably have about 3000 just here in Bangalore, their birthdays, anniversaries, their address, their mobile number, email ID, all the data we have, they haven't trusted it to the church. Family members, children, all the data is with us. We have to be careful. We'll talk about that. So these are two things we'll cover next week. Artificial intelligence and data protection. And with that, we would have covered this course that I'll just give one assignment for us to review everything. Okay. All right, so let's close in prayer. Somebody could lead us in prayer and then we will dismiss. Thank you for this opportunity to learn. And as a searcher, God, we pray that you would make use of the technology that you have provided and help us to use, to glorify your name. Your kingdom be established in the response to the world that ever we are ministering to. And let us use it wisely. You would be good stewards of the grace that you have given us. Thank you. Amen. Thank you, everyone. Have enjoyed the rest of the day. We will connect again tomorrow. Thank you.


Thank you very much for the invitation to read and discuss those papers. I found them really interesting and I'm glad to be here discussing them. I'll make two general comments before going into the details of each of the three papers and the first one is this. Those three papers as well as many others that we've seen today are based on microdata from administrative sources and these might seem quite normal for those of you who have started engaging with that quite recently, but when I started doing this research 10 years ago, there was no study using administrative data from any African country. So it's really amazing that we're now in a position where we can have a whole conference with so much great research using this data to inform policy and to promote evidence-based policymaking. I think this is really something to be celebrated both for the researchers who are doing this work, but also for the revenue authorities who are opening up and making this data available, which is not obvious at all. The second general point is that I think my main takeaway from many of the presentations we've seen today, and particularly the one on corporate income tax and UCAS presentation, is that progressive tax reform is possible. It has benefits on revenue and perhaps we shouldn't be too worried about the tax base being eroded as a result of increasing effective rates on higher income earners or large corporations. But I'll get into a bit more details. I think that's important as we think about the title of the conference, which is about increasing revenue. It's obviously a very important objective given that the big gap that exists. But as we do that, it's quite important for policymakers to keep in mind equity particularly as well as efficiency and not just increase taxes for the sake of increasing taxes in ways that are not necessarily equitable. So the examples today are examples of progressive reform. I think this is very good. Now I've been asked by the chair to focus on policy messages and push the researchers to think about policy implications. So I'll try to do that. When it comes to the VAT GAP paper, again, the researchers are able to show really detailed results about the VAT GAP by year, by firm size, by VAT status, zero tax, positive tax and so on.  But I wonder if I can push you to speak maybe a little bit more about what does that data allow you to say that is new. How do your results compare with the macro estimates of the VAT GAP? And what can you tell policymakers in terms of actions that your data allows you to say that that wasn't necessarily possible before? So I'd like to hear your reflections on that and perhaps also on your estimates. So you say they are lower bound and I see why you say that but then I also read your paper and I know that the audit process is risk-based. So if it is risk-based and if it works, it means riskier firms are included in the auditing process. If the whole process works, they should be evading more than others. So by applying the same parameters to the whole population, you're actually over estimating evasion and perhaps comparing the macro and micro figures might help to figure out where your estimates stand in terms of over or under estimation. Now, of course, the VAT paper was mostly about outright evasion based on audits, but we know that gaps in tax revenue can be due to evasion, to avoidance, or sometimes governments themselves leaving money on the table through exemptions. And I think that's where the second paper comes in a bit on corporate income tax. I found it really interesting to actually see a country-level research looking at the implications of those global negotiations on national tax administration and I think more of that is needed, especially because there is still lots of skepticism about how much those new global rules will actually change for lower-income countries. Your results show some revenue gains. They also show some behavioral responses for multinational firms. Again, I have a comment and a question. The comment is, or maybe it's also a question, I'm not quite sure about using elasticity from other studies in this case because the innovative thing about those tax rules is exactly that they are coordinated across countries. So elasticity means you reduce your income because the tax rate is higher because you have an opportunity to do so. Now, if these rules work, it means every it means those firms will pay 15 percent. The only question is where? So the only question is, will Uganda get that 15 percent or will the other country where the firm is based take it? So I think possibly you're overestimating maybe those responses a little bit because if the system works, the opportunities for shifting income across countries shouldn't be that high and that's the whole point of having a coordinated global minimum tax. Then along the same lines of the previous comments on the previous papers, I wonder if doing such a detailed analysis with the microdata allows you to say a little bit about what the URA, the Uganda Revenue Authority, should do to close those compliance, those corporate income tax gaps. Can you say something about whether that is mostly about decreasing incentives or whether perhaps it is about addressing corporate tax avoidance? What is it that that they should be doing tomorrow based on your experience doing research? Now the final paper, Yuka's work, I really enjoyed reading the paper, seeing the presentation. Thanks a lot for that. Again, for me, that is it's a very positive message about progressive tax reform because it was a from an equity perspective and an obvious reform to do, relieving those with lower incomes from paying tax, increasing to a reasonable extent tax rates on higher earners and your results show that the behavioral response is actually not that large. So again, from a policymaker's perspective, perhaps policy makers shouldn't be too worried, especially for higher earners on employment incomes to to see their tax base eroded as a result of increasing rates. I think again a comment and a question and then I'll leave the floor to the researchers themselves. The comment is I was really intrigued by your result that actually there seems to be a behavioral response for employees of firms that are not under the large taxpayers office. So when there is a bit less enforcement pressure on firms, there seems to be income shifting and that to me from a policy perspective speaks a lot to the role of firms as key players in improving compliance and and potentially those higher income earners colluding with firms to minimize tax payments. So even for personal incomes, there is a very important role for firms. And I wonder if that's something you can speak to in terms of policy implications. And then the second very quick one is pay as your own taxes on employment income are usually thought of as harder to evade. So I I'm encouraged by your results, but culturally so because I cautiously so because I'm wondering if you can say something about taxing the wealthy more generally because that is for me it's a clear direction for reform. Part of the direction of reform is applying the taxes that are already in the tax system on capital gains, investment income, rental income and so on. And and those are quite likely to have slightly higher elasticities. But I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, even though I know that is not exactly what you what you focused on. And the fact that you find some suggestive evidence of income shifting makes me wonder if what policymakers should take away from research like like yours that you've just presented is sort of an attempt to equalize rate equalize rates across tax types. Some countries already do that. Most countries don't. So obviously, if the tax rate on dividends is the same as unemployment income, you just take away the possibility of shifting income to minimize taxes. So these are my these are my comments. Again, really nice to see so much work using micro data. It's a it's a great development and I feel quite encouraged by your results that progressive tax reform is not only desirable, but indeed quite feasible from an economic and revenue perspective. So thanks a lot for that. Thank you, Julia, for your insightful comments. So I would like to welcome all the researchers in the front of so we can have a round of questions, but first of all, I would give the floor to Sebastian to answer some of the children's points and then Paul and then Njuka. And after that, we could take some questions from the audience. Well, thank you, Julia, for the comments. I so much agree with all and actually, fortunately, one of the author of this paper, my co-author is also an author of a more macro data estimation of the PED GABA and we are trying kind of okay, you obtained this, so we should obtain something similar or explain why we are not obtaining something similar. So part of our next step is to go further in how to estimate better or predict better evasion to much better, because only to include also we have zero evasion for the VAT, so we can kind of predict what film could show zero evasion and so on, so improve more. So I so much agree about the policy recommendation. My impression is there is something happen with this kind of fly under the radar that we need to understand and we need to attack. So if we already know that there is so less auditing for small-sized firms and they are evading a lot, okay, so it looks like we should put more effort to auditing small-sized firm. So could be that some of them are not small because of market things, it's because they are evading, actually. But all the other things, I so much agree, thank you, we are working on that. For me also, I agree with everything you say and we'll go forward and implement all of your recommendations except the one on elasticities from other countries, I don't know what else we can do without them. I guess we have to provide something, even though it would come from a point of weakness, but that's how we improve knowledge so that the next generation of researchers will hopefully use Ugandan elasticities, but given that now we don't have them, even the ones we have are not published, they are just from, they come from a position, they come from a place where it's because we are privileged to be in certain positions so we get to see some studies before they are published, like the one I told you about World Bank, but we can't really use it because also it's work in progress so I think you will excuse us to continue as long as we can provide justification and be within a band where we minimize the errors, but otherwise like your comments particularly on what your ratio do to close the gap, apart from just relying on global initiatives, I think we'll provide that in the paper. Thank you very much. Yeah, I just continue saying the same so I completely agree. So you asked about the policy implications for the rise from income shifting, so to the extent income shifting is so that's a form of avoidance, motivation, so so it wouldn't mean that those engaged in this would be working against the law, but I suspect that then the, so one way of seeing it for the point of view of society as whole could be that then the, I mean the, if that's where the behavioral reaction comes from, it's perhaps less harmful for the economic activity than a real drop would be. Now, about other types of taxes to the high income earners, so we were curious about the personal income taxpayers in the in the Ugandan case, so these are firm owners who have firms that are not corporations, but rather partnerships or sole proprietors and there were so few of them that we couldn't do any meaningful statistical analysis on using those data, so for the high income earners, what happens to this group that we are now analyzing completely dominates the revenue and inequality implications for the case of Uganda. Point taken when it comes to all these other taxes that we could levy on the on the wealthy, including the various sorts of capital income, capital gains, et cetera. I've seen no work in the African context on these and even though they wouldn't be raising much revenue, they would still be quite crucial in terms of backstop as a backstop on trying to avoid some of these income shifting or even outright evasion opportunities, so more work on that would definitely be welcome and maybe the most promising one there and this comes close to what was discussed in the opening plenary is the real estate and property taxes. Thank you, Jukka and Paul and Sebastian, so next we will have a question from the audience. Let's take because we have quite a plenty of time, so three questions and then we give the time for our researchers to answer. So there is in the back there is two questions already, so here in the in there yeah go ahead here. Thank you so much Helge Fjellstaff from CMI, Bergen, Norway. Yeah very interesting papers and I agree very much with what Julia said about now things are moving well or it's very promising the research which now can use administrative data, the collaborative research between tax administration and researchers. I have a question to Sebastian, the first paper on Tanzania. There has been because for long there has been concern in Tanzania among policymakers, among IMF and others that the tax gap is very very high there also relatively much higher in Tanzania than in other countries also in other compared to other East African countries and there has been some studies which has addressed this previously, UNECAS had they estimated almost 80 percent, 70 percent something like that was the VAT gap and but this study you have been involved with Sebastian is obviously one of the most solid one credible ones I believe I've seen but the discussion is what is actually how do you explain that and you refer to tax evasion and so on but the exemption regimes isn't that also a part of the story you might have mentioned it but that we know also that the tax exemption, the statutory exemptions are a part of the story and how do you take that into consideration that is not evasion that is by law and then the question is the next question is related to what is driving tax of VAT evasion. One thing is that you estimate there is a big VAT gap here okay but what is driving the evasion and what I find in my own work in Tanzania is the part of the story at least is that the massive delays in VAT reimbursement company reclaiming VAT so it in a way that people are or companies they perceive awaiting VAT is a way actually to handle this unfairness in in the tax system can you maybe reflect a little bit on those two issues thank you thank you and then we have a one in the back as well in the in here yeah thank you very much the presentations were very good and comprehensive mine goes to you can is probably something that was discussed also by Julia I'm trying to look at the issue of income shifting and when you talk about the idea of PIT for starters is it in terms of pay as you end because I'm trying to look at how you look at the compliance in that context because if it's under the pay as you and I would expect that since it's being deducted by the employers you wouldn't have much of a problem in terms of change in the rate but then if it's being done by individuals by themselves the challenge you mentioned were high net worth individuals you have a challenge with getting them to submit how does that come down to the smaller taxpayers I would expect more of a problem in that context as well in terms of those taxpayers when you look at the the shift from PIT to dividends that increase in the dividends what is the rate of dividends that's pertaining in probably in Uganda the country that you looked at is it lower than the rates on the PIT because if you adjust the PIT and it becomes high obviously there would be that incentive for the taxpayers to declare a revenue stream on which they will pay a lower tax also then now you look at what sort of dividend is it that they are getting because in partnerships obviously they will get a dividend from the partnership at the end of the day but that's not a final tax they still have to submit the personal income tax returns and get taxed under that same taxing regime and to conclude how do you handle now taxpayers who are self-employed but would probably opt to go in a turnover tax regime because that essentially offers the lowest rates that you would get so you'd find that most self-employed individuals would opt to be on turnover tax rather than file a PIT return which might even be a bit too complex for small taxpayers I submit thank you and then we have a one one question again in the back so yeah thank you so much to all the presenters mine is not exactly a question but a request for having more specific discussion of results and dissemination of findings to specific countries which are the where the data has been sourced specifically to revenue authorities, minister of finance for purposes of actually impacting policy in those specific area countries thank you thank you for the question so I will first give Sebastian time to answer the first question and then of course you can take the floor well thanks for the question and the comment regarding the second question we discuss how to measure and find the mechanism behind evasion obviously partly because of all of your work in Tanzania actually we didn't thought about this delay on credit or see about credit which is a variable that we can estimate or create from our data so thank you very much we will see this but definitely is something that we have in our agenda to investigate because it's quite surprising the bunching at zero for all the firms and this is monthly declaration so something is happened and regarding exemption I also so much agree what we only did but seeing data is how are the exemption regarding the BIT evasion that we discover by groups and looks I mean looks like we cannot say anything for that but what we have in mind to explore with the deep in the specification exemption and zero rated because we believe that something is happened perhaps they are declaring more or less there or they are reacting through this so this is a very good comment and so much agree with you thanks yes excellent excellent questions thank you for those I'm not sure certainly if I can come up with the very good answers maybe Maria can can help me here so I think I mean we haven't looked at it into this and we we should I mean I think we could spot the owner managers of small corporations because I mean if the manager is the person with the highest salary in that company so then I mean to see if this behavior is more prevalent there so then I guess if the same individual who's the employer and the employee then this sort of negotiations are easier right and and that that would be one case where we would be worried about the income shifting between the two bases the turnover taxpayers they are they are not in our sample and and and then the also the those who have partnerships they are excluded because there were too few of them to be included included here it's a good question also whether the incentives are there actually for this income shifting because the ukandan corporate income tax rate is quite high so I mean maybe it's because perhaps then the actual effective rate is it's very lower than the headline rate so that could be something that is then behind the results completely I mean I agreed on on the on the need to discuss these findings and and and we did one event just before the pandemic in ukanda and we are of course I mean planning to have other ones and and and we would be pleased to also I mean invite Paul to share his findings once the once the results are ready and Julia okays them for presentations as well so yes very very much agreed on that note thank you do we have other questions okay we have one in the in the middle we can take two or three of them if there is more than one yeah mine is not a question it's just to give more insight to the question that was directed to Sebastian there's a question that in Tanzania I think he there's the figure very high compared to other countries which is true it's not only because of tax evasion and the evidence it is also much to do that with the efficiency of institutions to collect the tax even with the rates which are there they could do a big job of collecting the tax but they don't do that's number one number two which is even much more serious is this actually disease by foreign aid that has not given enough efforts instead of the institution government to collect more so that is this is the kind which has been receiving a lot of foreign aid and there are arguments that that could be some of the reasons why we don't collect much of what was supposed to be collected and yes and this has been a debate between the president and the business community that they collectivity on the way for the government it takes many years for them to be reimbursed so that has done that has caused those who are the firms and the consumers those who are buying the products to collude not only that they don't give the receipts but even when they collect the VAT it takes so many years for them to be paid so they don't see a logic as per why they should engage in collecting the tax especially the VAT and that's why their study I think from Tehran they got even more more more percentage than what we got here so those are the some of the reasons that explain as per why Tanzania seem to be the top when it come no failure to collect the potential tax compared to other countries I think those are the some of the few points which I like the problem thank you and then behind you it was one question there in Mikas one it's just one on Tanzania is how are firms selected for audit and in particular could that have any bearing on the way in which you estimate for the full sample I have to add because Vincent should have known this but I don't agree at all and don't think any evidence supports the fact that aid has an adverse effect on tax revenue may have happened in the distant past certainly not the case now so that's not part of the story here and just a question for Paul more for information but how many firms in Uganda are multinationals in this sense like I'm sure there are some but I imagine they're and they're probably large taxpayers but there's small proportion of the population of firms so why do you think it would have an effect on on other firms okay thank you then we have a one online let's have that one at the third one and then researchers can answer yeah thank we will have one round more everything so there's a question online from Betia Huero could the issue of informal businesses contribute to tax evasion avoidance in VAT as formal businesses compete with the non-registered businesses hence low tax morale thank you and and and we will have now the responses and then after that we will have a one round more of questions so go ahead who wants to start Paul may begin yeah the the variable m and c's it's got from a study by Coivisto Coivisto and and and and company they they came up with an estimate of firms which are multinationals from the obis is it the obis database and matching it with the large taxpayer office so I would say maybe a thousand and that's quite significant given that not a lot of firms are pay CIT in Uganda majority are in the town of attacks schedule so yeah I would say not the majority but probably 40 percent of firms under the threshold of CIT are multinationals yeah and that could have a very big impact yeah thank you um yes more more general we know that the process to select firms to audit could bias our estimation and obviously the policy implication and the academic implication of this research in part is to improve perhaps the way in which we can estimate the VAT gap so what we have in mind is since we don't have particularly one for example rate or the assessment we only see the firms that were audited is try to estimate the probability of auditing and use these to predict auto sample the evasion so kind of if you are not audited but your probability to be audited is so high perhaps your evasion should be higher than what we are estimating now and vice versa if your probability of the denies low or so on so this is something that we have in mind to kind of improve the estimation but okay thank you then we had one more question at least from there and we can take another one if there is still some okay then behind it so first Joseph and then behind you mine is not even a question it's just probably a comment and following a recommendation that was made by Sebastian you mentioned that small firms need to be audited I think if I had you right sorry well the particular comment is what we saw in the data it's person that wise there are more large firms audited than small firms okay so if small firm are evading more perhaps redistributing to auditing small firm could be more efficient but this is obviously a preliminary recommendation okay it follows up from that because I think you basically need to be a little careful when making that kind of recommendation we were doing a study I think on audits looking at economic impacts of audits and what we've observed that the more the intensity of when you intensify audits on small firms they probably exit they change form there so I think the kind of audit really matters you basically the kind of recommendation you come up with will it be an issue audit to a comprehensive audit and all that so you need to be very careful when recommending maybe the kind of audit that is supposed to be done towards these firms thank you and then behind you was one more question yeah also for Sebastian I'm wondering if you're familiar with so for example the internal revenue service in the US has this program where they do a very small portion of audits actually at random with precisely the purpose of being able to sort of being able to do the sort of estimation that you do in a way that doesn't sort of face the comments that have you know that Julian Oliver both brought to you saying you know isn't this really a bias sample because the tax authority is not deciding who to audit at random and so wouldn't that be sort of possible policy recommendation of course you know the IRS might have very very different tax capacity than the Tanzanian tax authority but nonetheless it seems like it's a sort of relatively easy thing to implement that can vastly improve tax gap estimates thank you do we have any more questions I think okay okay that's the final one and then we give Sebastian time to answer no I think the what we agree on is that there is a very good development here now that we can use administrative data for our studies which is a new development as pointed out by Julia but we must also be careful when we use those data there are big flaws and I have digged into the VAT database in TRA there are a lot of problems with the dataset so but this is the data we have so that doesn't imply that we should not use it and I think it's very encouraging to see that people in the panel and others are using the administrative data but you have to be cautious trying to clean up the data and also be have a big cautious about some of the recommendation to come because the data are often very problematic but it's more problematic not to use them I think thank you thank you that's what's really like concluding with comments so but Sebastian if you want to answer some of the points you can do that yep very short I agree with the that all of us should be careful with the policy recommendation since this is very rarely been our work we still don't go further to really say okay this our policy recommendation and it's based on this that we are completely sure about that so I'm totally agree with this and regarding the random of the auditing process and how the auditing process actually is seen for firms I agree but I only want to point it out that we are here and well this is because I also work on this in not in firms in person I deeply believe that also people who take decision have resources to think as us so we start a kind of game theory play about okay you know that I know you know that I know you know that I know so it's always good come back and say okay we are in this game so perhaps this is obviously but if we think that this is obviously the other part could take advantage of us and so on so I think that is always kind of make okay we know that this is random but perhaps can we see if actually they are seen as random as we thought on so on so okay thank you Sebastian so I would like to thank everyone who have present today here in the session and provide some comments and and join the discussion so for my personal view I I'm happy to see this new studies coming up from these countries and I think it's very promising that in the future we know a little bit more about tax policies in the living countries and maybe can have some policy implications in the end but but thank you everyone I will close this