I'm Herbert Bensel from ECE and Bensel Concert in Austria. I represent the Industrial Advisory Committee of the Cost Action. We are living in an information society right now and information is a key value of our future development and asset management. In order to understand how things perform and how we can optimize performance, it makes sense to develop new methodologies that are done in this action. Please follow us. Thank you.


Thank you so much for hauling it down. You know just for being here with us.  First hour isha isha and you're still here. We appreciate you. We love you so much. Head over at Palaisa Show Media. Why? It's a fight for channel. Talk to us. Nakamakawa, I have a top boy right here with me. As long as you're playing good music, I'm good. That's the purpose. That's the reason. That's the reason. That's why you're the top boy. Alright, we're going to be sampling some of your comments and tweets when we get back right now. Like I told you, we have some guests in studio and our first guest is already right here. Guess what? He is a performing and he's actually a recording and performing artist. He is a wide-winning artist. He is very talented. And of course he comes all the way from Nakuru. Ladies and gentlemen, Nakuru City. Oh, Palaisa is a city now. Nakuru City. So, you guys are ready? Introducing on Bounce Nation, Johnny C. I love to hear it. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. It's so good to have you in studio. Nakuru kuko kwaadzim kofitin. Nakuru kukopo. Is it raining? Kama nai rupiya kama. Aga kutunye,za kunye shad jubzi ma Nji. So that's how you know if you've been here before, then you'll finally find that time. Do you see the time? Ya, this is the time. Kamaya Mutyu dem kulima, lifa kupanda 6 months ago. So you'll find it, I'll definitely come to you. I'll be here in a few months. Alright. So thank you so much for stopping by Nakuru City. So, thank you so much for making time to kwa kwa itisai. We really appreciate that. Yes, I'm happy. So, tell us about Jensi na Juhulian zangoma kitama ujensasai. Yes. Was it 2011? Yes. It means I, but he just started when he was young. No, no, no. Yes. But 2011, so how has it been for 2011 until your career in music then? It has not been easy by the way. Yes. So hard, so many challenges. Challenges. Yes. So, what has changed? 2011, nini nini kuena kushtopi en yasai uwezema afdo. Mi kitu, I'm doing this and no one is going to stop me. Nini na change between then and now because you have to be very motivated. 2011 is a long time. Ya, really. But nini wu wa nukia. So, what has kept you going through that time, through all that period? The love for music. Yes. It's been on me since Kitambo. Right. So, it has not been an easy journey. I've been quitting. It has been on and off. On and off. Kind of thing. On and off. But nini, like your first thing all, I don't know if this is correct, but your first thing all was connection. Ya. So, how did that impact you? Like if any of you believe in music, even more, how many of you believe in music? Ingo maa kuna maileena. And that's what I believe in. At some point, at some point, look at me tomorrow and you'll know. Okay. There was those. No, just to see. Kilambanda kenyona. Ya. Obviously. Not everyone is going to vouch for you. Ya. So, like, niki lili is too evil, but kuna kuna discouragement, kuna encouragement. So, I took the positive and not the negative. So, I had to cope up with it the way it will be. Ya. And you maa, has she been supported because I understand it was you and how. Oh, maa maa. Problem there. So, you see, like, ya, if you keep going, amma li kwa mbia. At some point, ya li kwa mbia. But there na kupenda lakini. Kuna trai maa there li kwa mbia kata ni fa niya mziki. Na jwa, sindi yo. Ani kwa mbia. Baana. I li kwa mbia kata. Keni wesa sa umia na za kwa niya mziki. Zaza na maasomu. So, maa naliyo runa na fa niya trakiya kwa kwanza kwa high school. You have to keep balance. Barai. And eventually, she accept it. She accept it. So, eventually, she accept it. She accept it. I accept. Vila yo na your forecast. Ya, ya, ya. Na kuna talent. Ya. Kuna, it will go somewhere. Ya, it will go somewhere. Right. Now, growing up, I saw you grew up with kwanza. Kina siza, ya kina isa, kaira. Baana, where? Kina willor. Like, so, has that changed? Who are you currently listening to? Calentry? Mm hmm. Jones. I'm a fan of Calentry Jones. Hey! Hey! Papa Jones! Did you hear that? And here's a new album. Ya. I've been listening to that since day one. For real? It's fire. We love to hear that. You must be people who are being inspired by their own artists. Ya. See, I think you could japaun asma. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. Ya. o the Hua bastidou hoka nisha, and ask movement where. Muntava y 함 mondanda. Rekoding is expensive, míy is expensive, then there is marketing, and I will don't change everything but somehow I will change the process. How well? So it's a lot actually. So yeah. And you recently actually your efforts paid off simply went on. Now, why and you actually nominated in other categories. I'm not saying you 2001st So, the award that I won was Central Artist of the Year, which made me at least believe more about whatever I was doing. That was motivation, a lot of motivation. I've been nominated among other awards, especially even last year. The award was this one, but I was too busy to make those announcements. I was nominated for Central Artist of the Year 2021 and 2022. Unfortunately, I never got the award, but I appreciate it. Oh, but you were nominated? Yeah, I was nominated. That counts for something? Yeah, it counts. I just want to do it when it exists. Send it out. They know about you, so that's something. Right, and you are working on your album. How is that coming? Yeah, it's coming good. I've just released the first track of it. Oh, so is that Dreamer? Yeah, Dreamer. The remix featuring Nakuru All-Star. So, how does that come about? Dreamer is a banger, but for those of you who are wondering what that is, you don't know much about Chesa just before the interview. It's such a banger. Yeah, it's a planner. And we love the vibe. So, how did you get everybody to agree kupakwa nani? How was the experience working on that? I know it's very high. Because you are the stylist. I was just in the studio. Okay, when I was doing Dreamer, I had an idea of a banger and a new song. All under the same. Yeah, in one song. Yeah, in one song. So, I had to take each and every artist that I knew had a different style. Other than me. So, I had to text a dance soul artist, a reading artist, a bongo artist, a hippo artist, a kapuka artist. And to everybody that I texted that day. Did they all respond? No, we didn't respond. Yeah. We didn't respond at all. We didn't respond at all. We didn't respond at all. But, you know, we didn't respond at all. But 80% of the people that I texted that day came through. Everybody was asking, I'm in the studio. I'm in the studio. I'm in the studio. So, you are in the studio? Yeah. Okay, actually, it's not my studio, but I work under water, I'm a reader. Okay. But I'm not a cook. He's one of the Boris producer that I know. He came up with the beat and everything else. Yeah. And then everything was just magic. Everything was magic. So great. The studio sessions were awesome. There was fire. Everybody was sweating. Yeah. It was not for days. Actually, we did that song with one day. Within a day. I was in the water with different styles. Yeah. Let me look for different people, what you welcome. We look for the same day. Yes. Uskora nisawe ni kwa ni amukana bahati. I had to call one artist. Kwa namao jel kama ni ambiya takuja yu sadade na gumu kiliko sadade. I came up with a new record. So, nika semu wa chani? A chani jalibu wa wengine. Yeah. So, just corrin, everybody was like, Sangavi, sadato, kuta, sadato studio. Oh, we were big e usiku? Yeah. Nika happen water, wa kua available on Saturday. Everybody was available on Sunday. A kulembati? Yeah. Kwa saanu sumua daa? Kwa saanu sumua! Kwa saanu siko bayaj nao pandal, Kini sometimes usta usta kiamzana na nindo sta Rotu yambiya ba t Renaissance The land of the plans Right, and everything ended up working out great Yeah and we love the song So you're going to be performing for us in a few dream up But before we do that Just reminding people your social media handles Dream out of Haqqatawapi Nnwere wa naqqatawapi So that for the guys who are watching at home can go and check you out. Okay. On Instagram follow me at official underscore Johnny C. That is J-O-N-Y-C. Right. On Facebook is Johnny C. On Twitter official underscore Johnny C. And on YouTube go watch Dreamer. It's official Johnny C. The song is titled Dreamer, featured in All Stars. All right, thank you. You have a question for him? Na, na, na. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, thank you so much for coming through, unless you have some last remarks, you have some shout outs, what's your make-up now, maybe. Oh. Bogi, wabie. Oh. So this is just aakhatun Bodiango Manze. So that's all you're thinking.  Shana, palem tra najia mam is watching. Oh, so do it to your mam. She's the absolute best. Yeah. And to all my friends in Yoko Hood, And remember, by the way, Haven't you seen this before? Kingshuja For Alright dreamers of all stars


This presentation will show you how to carry out an IPM program for ants. We'll define IPM, discuss anti-identification and biology, and go through various stages for managing them, including in-depth information on baits. At the end of the presentation, you will be given a few scenarios describing various situations that you may encounter in school settings. You will have the opportunity to discuss with the group what you would do if this were to happen in your school. So sit back and get ready to learn all about IPM for ants in schools. You will never be able to completely eliminate all ants nesting around buildings. However, you can manage them and keep them out of buildings using an integrated pest management approach. Integrated pest management, or IPM, uses environmentally sound, yet effective science-based ways to keep pests from annoying you or damaging plants. IPM programs usually combine several pest control methods for long-term prevention and management of pest problems without harming you, your family, or the environment. Pesticides are applied as a last resort, and least toxic methods are used. Because IPM relies mostly on non-chemical preventive methods, it reduces or eliminates pesticide use. Less pesticide makes the environment safer for people and wildlife, combining several effective methods into one program gives better results. IPM programs save time, money, and improve management of pests. IPM programs require that people work together. Everyone has a role. Students, teachers, and administrators need to keep their school grounds clean and report pest problems. Custodians respond to problems or notify school IPM coordinators. The IPM coordinator keeps records and designs an IPM program specific to the needs of each individual school. Successful IPM begins with correct identification of the pest.  The Argentine ant is the most common ant problem in California. It will be the focus of this presentation. Several other ant species occasionally occur and cause problems, however they won't be covered in detail. See the UC IPM Pest Note series, and the key to identifying common household ants on the University of California IPM website for information on other types of ants. Ants are sometimes mistaken for termites, especially in their winged form. Winged forms of both pests leave their nests in warm weather to mate and establish new colonies. To see if your pest is an ant or termite, look at the abdomen, antennae, and wings. The first part of the ant abdomen consists of one or two nodes depending upon species. The abdomen is constricted where it joins the thorax, giving an appearance of a thin waist. The termite's abdomen is broad with no apparent waist. Ants have elbowed antennae while the antennae of termites are never elbowed. On winged forms, the ant's hind wings are smaller than its four wings. Termite front and hind wings are the same size. In addition, ant wings have few veins while termite wings have several small veins. Ants are social insects, living in large colonies made up of queens, males, and workers. Each has a specific job. Queens establish new nests and lay eggs. Males mate with queens. Worker ants, which are sterile females, search for food, feed the colony, and defend the nest. Understanding these facts about biology is key to developing an effective management program. Ants can be beneficial. Ants traveling through soil will help loosen it, allowing water, air, and nutrients to flow more freely through it. Ants also decompose dead plant and animal matter, and they are often predators of other insects. Often when colonies are disturbed, you can see worker ants carrying larvae and pupae to safer locations. Argentine ants have taken over California, or at least it seems that way, because they are aggressive toward other ant species, and do not compete among themselves. Several small colonies are joined together creating larger super colonies. Colonies may have more than one queen. Argentine ants nest underground in soil, just below the surface. Nests may be shallow, but colonies are very large and diffuse. When you see a trail of ants, no matter how large, keep in mind that you are only seeing a small fraction of a large underground colony. So when you are trying to manage ants, consider the whole colony, not just the ants you see. Food availability drives what ants do and where they go. Throughout the year Argentine ants search for sweets, such as candy, cough drops, and sodas, or if they are outdoors, honey-do, produced by aphids, scales, and white flies on leaves. During the spring when queens lay eggs, workers may prefer to search for proteins to feed the developing colony. However, they may also feed on proteins during other times of the year. Examples include pet food, peanut butter, nuts, seeds, and dead insects. Food preferences vary somewhat among ant species. You can find ants wherever there is an attractive food source. Ants flock to honey-do-laden plants, garbage, or other discarded food, and areas of moisture near buildings. Look for entry points to buildings, such as holes or cracks in foundations, and walls or tree limbs and plant branches that touch buildings. Ants may invade classrooms, lounges, kitchens and other food storage areas, bathrooms, and offices. They may travel over and under desks, under sinks and other water sources, around pipes or electrical wires, in lockers, near dumpsters and garbage cans, under bleachers, and around concrete slabs. Colonies often nest in planter boxes, raised planting beds, or potted plants, and travel up trees for honey-do. Keep your eye out for ants. Even if you see only a few stragglers, there may be more on the way. Worker ants leave the colony in search of food sources or new nesting sites. These are scouts, and they wander in a random pattern, sometimes traveling several hundred feet until they find a suitable food source. Once food is found, scouts take a straight route back to the nest, laying down a chemical trail often along a physical structure. Soon after you see the scouts, large trails of ants generally appear. Look for trails of ants whenever you are walking on campus. Report problems to your custodian or IPM coordinator. If it is your job, follow up quickly on reported problems. Find places where ants enter buildings. When you spot ant trails, follow them from the attractant to the nest, if possible. Written records are important. Records keep the communication lines open between teachers and staff. Place a monitoring form in a common area where teachers and other staff can report pest problems. Map locations where problems occur. This is an efficient way of knowing where to monitor and treat. The Healthy Schools Act requires a treatment record for all pesticides other than exempt materials. It is also a good idea to keep records of all other management actions you take. For each action, record the date and the method of management used. If you apply baits, note the material you use and where you place them. Follow up on all management actions and record the result. Learn from your experience. Successful treatments can be repeated. So how do we outsmart ants? We need to focus on a realistic goal. That goal is to keep ants out of buildings. In an IPM program, we make it harder for ants to get in. We take away their food. And when all that fails, we trick them into killing their colony with baits. No matter how hard you try to keep them out, ants always seem to find a way to enter buildings. However, there are a number of things you can do to keep most of them out most of the time. Cock all cracks and holes in foundations and walls. Cock around windows, electrical outlets and pipes.  Use weather stripping around doors and windows. These methods must be combined with others for good ant control. Sanitation is the key to ant management. The best way to discourage ant invasions is to keep things clean and eliminate sources of food and water. In kitchens, clean floors, counters, shelves, and anywhere that food is prepared, served, or stored. Clean greasy and sugary spills immediately and keep sinks free of dirty dishes. Remove all food sources and store all foods, especially sugary foods such as honey and syrup, in sealed containers. Keep food containers off the floor. Repair leaky faucets and pipes. In classrooms, keep food sealed and designated to a specific area. Clean immediately after snacks. Remove food from desks daily. And remember, if you use food in crafts, clean up at the end of the day and let your students take their projects home. If you have class pets, don't leave pet food out. Empty garbage regularly and change the liners. Keep trash outdoors if possible. Rinse out all recyclable containers and keep them in a closed bin. Wash garbage containers regularly. Place them away from the buildings and keep them on hard surfaces. Motivate students to put trash in containers. There's no limit to ant invasions. Ants may invade teachers' lounges, lockers, water fountains, and bathrooms. Keep students, teachers, and staffed in form of their roles in sanitation. Tell them to report ant trails and leaks in plumbing. It takes everyone working together to keep a clean environment. Ants attracted to food and water sources next to buildings are more likely to invade. Make that area inhospitable. Manage food sources, such as garbage, and trees and shrubs with honeydew-producing insects such as aphids, whiteflies, or scales. Remove sources of moisture and shelter, such as wood piles, organic mulches, grass, and other plants so that they are away from buildings. To keep ants out of honeydew-laden trees, apply a sticky barrier around trunks. Trim tree limbs and shrubs away from buildings. Bates are insecticides mixed with materials that attract worker ants. When pesticides are needed in an ant management program, baits are the best choice. When worker ants search for food, they take it back to the nest to feed the queens and immatures. Bates work the same way. The advantage of baits is that they kill the ants in the colony, not just the workers in the trail. Killing the ants in a trail with sprays will provide only temporary relief because a new trail will soon emerge from the colony. Recognize that baiting takes patience. Bates must be slow-acting so that workers are not killed before the bait reaches the colony. It could take 7 to 10 days or more before you see the results, and it could take several weeks before the problem goes away. Bait products are safer than sprays because there is less human exposure and there is little chance for the material to get into the environment. Remember, baits won't be effective alone. You must also remove food sources and seal up entryways. Ant baits contain either a sugar or protein-based attractant, along with the active ingredient, or toxicant. Look for the active ingredient listed on the label on bait products. Common active ingredients include borate, arsenic trioxide, hydromethanone, fibranil, abomectin, and sulfuremin. When using baits, it is often beneficial to set out multiple bait products so that ants will have a choice. Ant baits are available as liquids, gels, or solids. Liquid formulations are most commonly used and are used in bait stations. Gels are packaged in small tubes. Use gels indoors in protected areas. Squirt along ant travel ways in small cracks and crevices. They are not as effective outdoors. Solid baits are packaged as granules. Around schools place granular bait in bait stations. Granular bait can also be applied directly, but this is not usually recommended for schools. Pre-packaged baits such as ant steaks and small plastic containers contain either liquid or solid baits and are available at most nurseries, lawn, and garden centers and hardware, grocery, or drugstores. They should be used primarily outdoors. They can be placed indoors if needed. To increase your success rate, set out various bait products, giving ants a choice, and remember to remove other food sources. Bait stations protect baits from being disturbed and they are safer to use when children or pets are around. Oftentimes they can be hidden in mulch or under other debris so that children or pets do not notice them. However, ants can still access them. Reusable bait stations are more useful than pre-packaged baits because they don't have to be replaced as often. These stations are permanently installed into the ground or attached to walls or pavement near the foundation of a building where ants are commonly found. They have removable cups that can be filled with several different types of bait. These stations can be opened and checked to see what bait is being fed on and can be refilled regularly. This is particularly useful for liquid baits as they have a tendency to dry out periodically and need to be refilled. Use baits only when there is an ant problem and use them primarily outdoors. They can be used indoors but only when there is a serious infestation, otherwise you could actually attract ants indoors. Outdoor baits draw ants out of buildings. Place baits along trails where ants are likely to find them. Place near entryways to buildings, edges of buildings and at nest openings. Avoid placing baits where children and pets can pick them up. If indoor baits are required, place them near the entry point rather than across the room at the food source. Be sure to clean up the food source and ant trail before placing baits. Try to choose locations where they will not be disturbed because baits are slow acting. You will continue to see trails of ants for several days. Baits should be used in an integrated program that includes other methods such as sanitation. Baits will only be effective if ants are attracted to them. To ensure that ants will find the bait, remove all other nearby attractive food sources. Try different active ingredients and formulations in each bait station to enhance success. Squirt sugar gel bait into a protein-based prepackaged bait or squirt some protein gel into a sugar-based prepackaged bait. This is a protein-based container and I'm going to squirt a little bit of sugar-based gel inside it so that the ants have several baits to choose from. And then this has a sticky back which we can peel off and place down in a corner where it will be out of the way and the ants will be able to find it. In reusable stations, use both protein and sugar baits in liquid and granular forms. Use liquid baits in covered containers to make them last longer and not dry out. Evaporation changes the concentration of the active ingredient. Monitor bait stations and refill with bait as needed. If you see ants feeding on the bait, try not to disturb the trails or they may not bring the bait back to the colony. Don't use any insecticide sprays while you are using baits. They are not needed and will only disrupt the baiting process. After ant trails disappear, remove baits so that you don't actually end up attracting ants to an area. Argentine ants nest outside, but they move indoors when conditions change. They come in looking for food, moisture, or shelter. Keep ant problems to a minimum with exclusion and sanitation techniques. If ants do invade, determine what the ants are attracted to and remove the food source. Vacuum up trails or wipe them with soapy water. The soap removes the scent trail. Locate entry points and caulk up the openings. If potted plants are infested with ants, remove them from the building and submerge the pots in water with a few drops of soap. Put out bait stations and apply gel bait at entry points to prevent further invasions. Do not use insecticide sprays such as aerosols because they don't provide long-term control and are forbidden by many school districts. Do not use insecticidal chalk, sometimes called Chinese chalk. It is an illegal and dangerous product. Many pest control companies suggest monthly treatments of insecticides around the perimeter of buildings to prevent invasions. However, spraying will disrupt your IPM program. Spraying around the foundation kills worker ants without killing the colony. These treatments may appear to knock down the population, but ants will build back up and invade again. They are also expensive and do not provide the long-term control that baits, in combination with exclusion and sanitation, do. Perimeter treatments also pose a threat to the environment. The runoff can get into storm drains, creeks and streams. The key to ant management in a school environment is persistence. We don't use any kind of insecticide spraying around to protect the children, but we have to continually bait. It works very well where we've had streams of ants for years. Even after spraying, now we have very few. As soon as we put out the bait, the ants eat it up and we have to repeat that process many times, but it controls them very effectively. For more information about integrated pest management for ants, visit the UC IPM website. For more information on school IPM and the Healthy Schools Act of 2000, see the California Department of Pesticide Regulation School IPM Program website. On the following screens, you will be presented with several scenarios that will reinforce key ideas in the presentation and give you a chance to discuss ant management with the group. Follow the instructions for each scenario. For many of the questions, you will be instructed to pause the program after the question is read, so you can discuss your thoughts. Please resume play when you are ready. What can you do in this situation to prevent or reduce ant problems? Name eight things that don't involve pesticides. Press pause now. The answer will be revealed in five seconds. Prevent or reduce ant problems by reducing food sources, shelter and entryways. Trim branches and band trees. Remove nesting areas and fallen fruit. Use lids and liners for trash cans. Trim back or remove vegetation growing next to buildings. Reduce irrigation near the building foundation. Finally, caulk cracks and seal holes to prevent ant entry to buildings. What can you do in this situation to prevent or reduce ant problems? Name six things that don't involve pesticides. Press pause now. Prevent or reduce ant problems by reducing food sources, shelter and entryways. Remove or clean food from the counter and seal it in containers. Transfer food from cartons and boxes into sealed containers. Wash dishes. Don't leave dirty dishes in the sink overnight.  And use liners in garbage cans. Clean up food and spills. Finally, caulk around pipes or openings to prevent ant entry. Which of the following will provide long-term ant prevention and control? Spray the ant trail. Clean up food sources. Place baits near attractive food. Caulk cracks and foundations. Spray around doors and windows. Use baits when ants are active. Spray colony entrance. Focus efforts on colony. Place baits near ant trails. Leave baits out all year round. Fix leaky pipes. Spot treat baseboards, cabinets. Remove infested potted plants. Here is a summary of the techniques discussed. Pause the program here to discuss any questions. Press play to resume. For long-term ant prevention and control, use baits, eliminate sprays and keep the surrounding areas clean. Discuss where you can place baits. Outdoors, place baits along ant trails where ants are likely to find them, such as along edges of buildings or at nest openings. Indoors, remove the food source and ant trail before baiting. Place baits at ant entry points, in cabinets or on counters. What do you think the immediate results would be if you applied an insecticide to eliminate the ant trail? Sprays can kill ants in a trail almost immediately.  What do you think you would see within a few days after spraying an insecticide to eliminate the ant trail? After a few days, because the colony wasn't killed, ants will start to return to the trail. What would the long-term results be after spraying an insecticide to eliminate the ant trail? Sprays give immediate results, but don't provide long-term control. What do you think the immediate results would be if you set out baits to eliminate the ant trail? Baiting will often not give you immediate results. Ants need time to feed on the bait and bring it back to the colony. Is there something you need to change to make baiting more successful? Remove attractive food sources so ants will find the bait. What do you think you would see within a few days after baiting to eliminate an ant trail? After a few days, the bait will start to kill the colony, and fewer ants will be searching for food. What do you think you would see over the long-term with baiting to eliminate the ant trail? Baiting can provide long-term control when other attractive food sources are removed. How long should you wait to see if your bait is working? One to two days? It may take one or two days for ants to find the bait and bring it back to the colony. It's too early to tell if your bait is working yet. What can you expect after five to seven days? You will probably not see complete control yet, but if the ants are present, they should be feeding on the bait. What can you expect after ten days or more? By ten days, you should be seeing a significant reduction in ants. Baits may take up to a week or even several weeks to work. To make baiting more effective, try using two different baits at once. And remember to clean up other food sources and seal entryways. Why are ants infesting this room and how can you clean up the problem? Wipe up ant trails and remove food sources. Remove the potted plant if infested. To prevent ants from entering, caulk around the window and place bait outdoors at entry points. Where would gels be most effective? Outdoor round pipes? In cracks of doors and windows? Along baseboards? Along trails and sidewalk cracks? Around indoor pipes? Gels are most effective if used indoors in protected places. Finally, where will you go if you need to find more information? Check out the University of California IPM website and the DPR School IPM website.


There are thousands upon thousands of species on planet Earth. Some creatures, the last of their kind. One out of five left in the world. I'm National Geographic photographer Joel Sartori, and I'm on a mission. Traveling the globe, doing whatever it takes... Not a bashful murder. He's got teeth. ...to capture them all, one portrait at a time. Wow, she's big. Rare. Creatures of the photo-art.


Thank you. So today I'm going to talk about what I consider to be one of the most fascinating aspects of blockchain technologies, which is the ability to operate on their own and to interact with their own environment like an independent entity with a life on its own.  And so before we begin let's look at what are the fundamental characteristics of blockchain-based system that actually distinguish themselves from traditional internet-based platforms. So first of all, a blockchain is a decentralized database that operates on top of a peer-to-peer network. And just like the internet, those networks are global and transnational and do not generally account for national boundaries. And because a blockchain is replicated on the computer of every network node, then it is highly resilient. And because all nodes actually follow the exact same protocols, then it is virtually impossible to unilaterally modify or tamper with the data recorded on this decentralized database. And then many blockchains are also inherently transparent in the sense that everyone that is in the network can see what everyone else is doing, with the exception, of course, of privacy-enhancing blockchains like Zcash. But because every transaction is actually cryptographically signed with the private key of the party executing it, then no one can also later deny actually having effected and executed this transaction. And then most public blockchains are also pseudonymous in the sense that people do not need to identify themselves as individuals in order to join the network and they just need to create an account in order to obtain a public address that will identify them in an pseudonymous manner. And then finally, and most importantly, modern blockchains make it possible not only to store transaction information, but also to store and execute software code that will run with a guarantee of execution in the sense that no one can actually modify, influence or even stop the execution of that software. And so when we're thinking about regulation, then how does this actually differ from traditional software code? So on the Internet, we have this notion of Lex informatica, which essentially just means that code is increasingly being used as a mean to regulate behaviors. And so code is low because code assumes the same functionality as the law. Even though, of course, this code actually remains under the control of specific online operators, which are themselves subject to the rule of the law. And on the blockchain, code is also being used as a mean to regulate behavior. The difference is that this time, because of the specificity and the fundamental characteristics of a blockchain, then blockchain-based code can actually be designed to largely ignore the traditional rule of law. And so the only law that actually matters on those systems is the code. And so this has two important implications. The first one is that it reduced the need for intermediaries and trusted authorities because it actually shift the notion of trust away from those centralized operators and towards the underlying technology. And so as long as we can actually trust the technology, then we no longer need to trust, in theory, anyone else. And the other one is that this actually creates new opportunities for increasing the automation and the autonomy of those blockchain-based systems. Because once they have been deployed on the blockchain, then those systems no longer need or heed their creators. And they can actually be designed to operate autonomously and independently of the original will of the part is deploying it. And so this obviously can create some potential conflicts between the rule of code and the rule of law. And so what is actually really interesting to explore is what is the interplay between those two types of regulation, regulation by law and regulation by code. And whether one can actually overtake the other. So can a blockchain-based system be actually forced to comply with the law? Or can it instead be used as a means to bypass existing regulatory frameworks to the extent that they operate within their own separate technical framework? And so if we back up a little and we look at the narrative from the early Internet days, we might remember the claims of some of the Internet pioneers like John Perry Barlow or Timo Timei who saw the cyberspace as an independent space that simply could not be regulated because governments simply did not have the right nor the capacity to exert their sovereignty over it. But of course, this vision did not actually materialize in the same way as many of us would have hoped. And as soon as the opportunities of the Internet actually began to be understood by new and established market players, then the market dynamics actually kicked in and the architecture of the Internet slowly started to change, becoming this increasingly concentrated system which is today controlled by a few incumbents. And so in just a few years, the Internet, which has initially perceived as this tool to promote individual freedoms and autonomy, has eventually become a powerful tool of surveillance and control. And so in fact, after the initial fear of crypto-anarchy faded away, it soon become quite clear that it's not too hard to regulate the Internet because even to direct regulation by law can be difficult because code is increasingly replacing the law as a means of regulation, then governments can actually use the law in order to regulate the code by actually exerting pressure on those online operators which are indeed operating that code. But can the same solution be applied to a blockchain-based system? And so the problem here is that with a blockchain, we actually have lost one of the most effective means of regulation, which are the intermediary operator. And if there is no intermediary operator, then it becomes much harder to leverage the traditional means of regulation that were available on the Internet because it actually is no longer so easy to identify what is the actual object of regulation. And so if we look at the early narrative and promises of the early blockchain advocates, then we might actually notice that those are actually quite similar to the narrative of the early Internet pioneers. And so the question then is whether blockchain technologies could actually succeed where the Internet has failed. Can it become this new tool of disintermediation and individual emancipation that the Internet pioneers were advocating for? And can it actually help materialize these early visions of the cypher punks leading to this whole new wave of crypto-anarchy? And so when talking about the regulation of the cyberspace, people introduce the notion of unregulability in order to highlight the difficulties inherent in the regulation of such a global and transnational network like the Internet. And in the blockchain space, people prefer to do the same thing. They prefer to refer to those platforms as being illegal in the sense that they operate outside of the purview of the law. And so the idea is that a blockchain based system creates its own separate technical framework that cannot be touched or affected by the law. And we can already see quite a few applications of blockchain technologies that are actually in direct conflict with existing regulatory frameworks. And we can also see that there is a lot of uncertainty in the blockchain. And we can also see that there is a lot of anonymity of Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies in order to facilitate money laundering or in order to set up some decentralized marketplaces for the trading of illicit goods or services. And then more recently, we also found out that the tamper-resistant feature of a blockchain can also be used to prevent the existence of a blockchain, which links to child pornographies, but also to prevent the exercise of specific rights that actually require the deletion of contents such as, of course, the right we've forgotten. But this discrepancy between the rule of law and the rule of code is perhaps the most apparent in the context of property. So traditional property rights are defined by the law and, if I acquire a particular piece of property in a way that turns out to be illegitimate, then regardless of what the law says, then a court order or a judge or I can essentially be declared not to be the legitimate owner of this property and this property can be taken away from me. Whereas when we enter into these blockchain-based systems, then we encounter those new types of cryptographic assets or blockchain-based property that do not actually follow the same rules. And so for instance, if I legitimately acquire a Bitcoin, then no one has actually unilaterally the power to seize it from me unless the code actually provides for that. And then the same issues actually applies in the context of contracts. So traditional legal contracts are created according to specific rules which are defined by contract law and which are designed to actually create a binding agreement between two parties. But those agreements can only be enforced through the intervention of a third-party authority which needs to read and understand and interpret the meaning of those contracts in order to identify what the real intention of the parties were. And when we move into those blockchain-based systems, then we can now create those new types of contractual arrangement through those blockchain-based smart contract which are defined only and exclusively by the code which is deployed on the blockchain. And so those agreements actually no longer require third-party intervention because the contractual provision will be automatically enforced and executed by the underlying technology. Of course, which, however, cannot actually identify what the real intention of the parties were but will just merely apply the wordings of the code. And so overall what this all means is that it is now possible to deploy software entities on a blockchain in such a way that they can de facto act as autonomous agents because those agents can own property to the extent that this property can be digitally represented on a blockchain and they can also engage into a series of contractual relationship through the smart contracts. And most importantly, even though most of those agents are actually quite simple in the sense that they do not feature any type of decisional autonomy or AI, they do nonetheless benefit from a different type of autonomy which is mostly operational because they can be designed to operate autonomously and independently of any third-party authority. And so this leads us to what I consider to be the most exciting aspect of blockchain technologies, which is the ability to create those new types of algorithmical entities that can be regarded to some extent as a blockchain-based life form because they are autonomous, self-sufficient in the sense that they can collect the resources that they need in order to sustain themselves, and of course, like any other type of life form, they are potentially capable of reproducing themselves. And so this might sound a little bit confusing at first, but in order to illustrate this concept, I have brought here a small prototype of a blockchain-based life form which you can interact with. So let me just turn it on. So this is a plantoid, which is essentially the Android version of a plant. And this is my personal attempt at trying to illustrate in the physical world what are the basic functionalities but also what are the legal challenge raised by decentralized, autonomous organizations. And so how does this work exactly? So plants, traditional plants, most of them are incapable to reproduce themselves on their own, and they require the help of thought parties to help them reproduce through the process of pollination. And in the same way, plantoids are also incapable of reproducing themselves on their own, and they require the help of thought parties, in this case, humans, to actually help them in the reproduction process by donating capital to them in the form of occurrences. And so one important thing to understand about a plantoid is that it is made of two separate components. One is the body, which is essentially this mechanical sculpture that subsists in the physical world. And the other one is the spirit or the soul of the plantoid that subsists as a smart contract on the Ethereum blockchain. And those two components interact with each other in order to bring the plantoid to life, and also in order to ensure its capacity of reproducing. And so let's look at what are the different phases of reproduction of a plantoid. So the first one is the capitalization phase, which is when the plantoid will try and make itself pretty in order to lure people into donating some cryptocurrencies to it. And so every plantoid has its own Ethereum account that people can send funds to, and whenever it has collected some funds, then the plantoid will show some form of appreciation to tank the funder by doing some dances or by playing music or by doing some small light show. So I'm going to do a small demonstration.  And hopefully it's going to be thankful for that. And so what is happening is that the plantoid is constantly monitoring its balance on the Ethereum blockchain, and whenever it has noticed that it has actually collected a sufficient amount of funds in order to reproduce itself, it will trigger the smart contract on the Ethereum blockchain, which will actually activate the second phase of reproduction, which is the mating phase. And this is when the plantoid will actually actively start looking for a mate in order to help it reproduce. And this is done again via the smart contract on the Ethereum blockchain that will open a call for bits, inviting artists, designers or anyone to submit propositions as to how they envision to produce the next plantoid. And so the people that then have submitted a proposition, and then the people that have funded the plantoid can then vote on those different propositions that they like the most and then eventually the smart contract will then process all this information, and eventually will identify which one is the winner. And this is what will activate the third and final phase of reproduction, which is the hiring phase. And this is when the plantoid will execute a smart contract transaction in order to transfer the funds that it has collected so far to the selected winner, who will then be hired by the plantoid in order to create a new copy of itself. And then, of course, plantoids are not inherently selfish, but they also care about their own creators. And so every time a plantoid has accumulated a sufficient amount of funds to reproduce itself, it will send a small portion of those funds back to its parent, to the plantoid that generated it, and another small portion of those funds will be sent to the artist, to the person that actually created it. And so this kind of pyramid scheme actually comes with two important benefits. So the first one is that I created the Genesis plantoid and so I currently stand at the top of this pyramid. But the second one, which is more important, is that this actually creates a positive incentivization structure for every artist to try and create the most beautiful or the most interesting plantoid because the most popular this plantoid will be then the more funds it will be able to collect and reproduce, and therefore the higher the royalties that the artist will be able to collect. And then another interesting aspect of this is that this, to some extent, disrupt the traditional conception of copyright law which is based on the notion of scarcity and exclusivity. Whereas here, every artist actually has the strongest incentive to maximize the dissemination of its work because that will enable the plantoid to collect more funds but also to encourage the remix and the creation of derivative works because this is actually what will maximize the return on investment. But then more importantly what it does is that it actually is shifting the focus away from the artist and towards the art piece. And so instead of sending money to an artist in the hopes that he or she will continue to produce works that I like, we can now send funds directly to the art piece itself who will then be in charge of selecting which artist is actually entitled to reproduce a copy of itself. And so here you can see the genealogical tree of the plantoid species. So as you can see, this is plantoid number seven which is the result of the reproduction of the genesis plantoid number one. And so every plantoid actually needs to abide by the criteria which has been embedded into the DNA of its parents. So for instance in the case of this plantoid it has to be made of chains and its design must be released under a creative common license as required by the genesis plantoid one. And then every artist can then introduce additional criteria into the DNA of the plantoid that they are producing and those criteria will then need to be implemented and incorporated into every single one of the descendants. And so what this does is that this actually creates some kind of evolutionary algorithm whereby different plantoids will evolve into different species, each one with their own characteristics. And so the plantoid that will be the more popular will be able to collect more funds and therefore will be able to reproduce more whereas the plantoid that are actually perhaps least appreciated will eventually just fade out into extinction. And so in the end we can actually find out which one of those plantoids are actually the most fit for their own environment and those are the one that will be able to reproduce more and eventually colonize our planet. And so and on that point I'm actually very happy to say that the last three plantoids that have been produced have traveled all the way to the US in order to colonize Blackhawk City during the Burning Man Festival last year and hopefully we also be coming back next summer. But when it comes to the reproduction process then one important thing to understand is that just like humans, plantoids can actually rely on two different strategies in order to maximize their chances of reproduction. On the one hand they can rely on their physical attributes or aesthetics, trying to be as beautiful as possible in order to attract more cryptocurrency donation and on the other hand they can actually rely on more spiritual or intellectual features which are defined by the government structure which has been codified into their smart contract. And so this little plantoid is actually a new experiment because it incorporates dauster holographic consensus into its DNA. And so this means that once this plantoid will actually start reproducing after it has collected one eater of donations then anyone will be able to submit propositions about how they envision to produce the next plantoid and every single one of those plantoids will also need to incorporate the holographic consensus into their government structure. And if you do want to learn more about dauster holographic consensus please come and talk to me afterwards. But to conclude I just want to say that what's actually really interesting about this is actually not just the fact that the plantoid can actually reproduce itself but actually all the legal challenges that it actually brings about especially with regard to property and contract law. And so for instance those the plantoid actually own the eater that is being donated to it even though it does not actually qualify as a legal entity. And can the plantoid actually enter into a real contractual relationship with the artist that it is actually hiring to create a new copy of itself even though it does not have any type of legal personality. And then most importantly what kind of records does the plantoid actually have in the case of a breach of contract. For instance if someone decides not to respect the DNA and the criteria that has been incorporated into its parents. And so those are all very important legal questions that actually do not really have any proper answer yet. And the plantoid is actually really here just to convey and to illustrate all those new legal challenges that are actually being raised by many different types of blockchain based life forms or decentralized autonomous organization more generally and that actually it will become soon very important to actually address. And those are actually all those questions that we are currently investigating with Koala as we are trying to better understand the interface between the rule of law and the rule of code enacted by blockchain technologies with the intention to actually create a bridge between those two worlds in order to enable them to interconnect and to interface with one another without necessarily having one overtaking the other. And so I'm happy to answer any question you might have and if I don't manage to answer them properly I will invite you to try and read this book Blockchain and the Law where I'm actually engaging into a much more in-depth analysis between the discrepancy between the rule of law and the rule of code. Thank you. We have five minutes for questions. I'm just curious. During the proposal process where people can vote on what the next plantoid is going to be like can you propose any arbitrary improvement to it? Yes, absolutely. So within the genealogical tree so you need to respect the DNA of the parents but then it's actually part of the game that every artist will incorporate new additional criteria into the new plantoid that you are creating so you can innovate in any ways you want as long as you're actually respecting the DNA criteria. I see. So could I propose attaching a giant solar array to it and then having it mine its own ether? Yes. And not only you can do that but you can also add this as a DNA criteria which means that once this plantoid will reproduce everyone will also need to implement a similar thing. It seems like you would have a significant selective advantage. Maybe you should try to submit that. Maybe I will. You suggested among the questions you have is can the plantoid act as an autonomous agent in a way recognized by law? It seems to me that the plantoid does act as an autonomous agent per its own contract. Yes, I mean the factor it does, that's the point. So the factor you create something that can own property and that can engage into a set of contractual relationships. So in practice the factor it is acting as an autonomous agent. Now the question is how does this thing that exists within a technical framework how does that interface with the law? As in if the plantoid is holding ether how do you actually represent this from a legal perspective because you cannot say that an object is owning ether because this doesn't have a legal personality or if I'm actually being hired by the plantoid to create a new plantoid what kind of contractual relationship I have if the counterpart to my contract doesn't have a legal personality and most importantly the question of recourse what happen if I bridge the contract that I have with the plantoid what can the plantoid do in order to actually sue me or do anything about my bridge of contract? So that's the interesting thing is that there is a distinction between what happened the factor which actually we can create the autonomous agents and then what the law can see and the law cannot see those agents because it can only see things that the legal system actually recognizes and so it's going to try and interpret for instance if you're going to say maybe this is a general partnership if there is some people that are actually part of it but it's a fully automated system then it becomes much more complicated so the question is how do we actually connect it to or actually how do we create some kind of membrane that enable the blockchain based system the autonomous system to interact with the real world with the legal world in a way that actually is consonant with what they actually can do In the US what would you say the structure is closest to being able to recognize your early plant oids? So I mean most of the plant oids today because they are not very sophisticated in terms of AI and whatever so they actually rely on a human governance so the funders are actually to some extent the governor of the plantoid so I would say that in the US it most likely would qualify as a general partnership and therefore you could claim that if we are breaching the contract then perhaps every single person from the legal the general partnership could potentially identify itself because of course it's absurdonymous and then try to prove that they are indeed some of the governance people and therefore try and bring a claim but it's really messy and the work that we're trying to do with Coral and in general it's like let's try and figure out how we can some extent like formalize or just like try and dive into this to understand what are the different possibilities and what kind of step do we actually need to take either at the technical level or like techno legal contraption in order to achieve the goal that we want So the plant oids definitely look very cool but how much importance is really being placed on physical form of these things it seems like a lot of dows that are popping up the overall lifetime expectancy of a dow is for it to become a autonomous agent especially as collecting becomes automated voting becomes automated by the network and ever implementing things in the real world becomes increasingly automated So this entire project is cool why focus on a physical piece of hardware that doesn't really add too much compute capabilities instead of more software deployment in autonomous ways trying to lead more towards dows with autonomous decision making So I mean that's an artistic project so it needs to have some artistic project and the idea is actually I'm using this as an object to talk with lawyers and to talk with anyone if you try to explain to someone that is not deep into the blockchain space if you try to explain a dow and if you want to discuss with lawyers about the challenges of a dow it's really complicated because everyone starts asking you about the technical question which is not the interesting thing because then you have to start explaining the whole blockchain thing before you can actually engage into an interesting legal discussion So this is actually a very nice shortcut because you just explain how the dow works and then people actually start thinking around this object of the dow but actually it's a plantoid and therefore you can actually engage into the technicalities of the blockchain So it's more of a prop that illustrates the legal challenge in a way that is actually very accessible and that makes it possible to actually discuss around that and I'm actually very eager to figure out how to resolve this legal challenge for the plantoid but if we figure it out for the plantoid we figure it out for the dow in general, right? And then the other thing is that having the physicality and the governance is like in the evolution in the genealogical tree So most of the plantoid so far they have always been focusing on the physical evolution so the DNA is mostly related to the way they look and this is actually the first one that incorporates as a DNA criteria a governance question So now this is like this is the smart contract that becomes part of the DNA which means that now every single one that is reproducing from this one will have to incorporate the dow scolographic consensus and then people need to innovate within the governance structure of that smart contract So it can go, it's like a hybrid between two, my hope is that actually there will be increasingly more advances and evolutionary things that happen within the governance but at the same time there will also be the physical because it's an artistic project Thank you for the inspiring talk about such an inspiring topic My question is you mentioned two notions about autonomy and agency and whenever we are in discussions about like let's call it digital persons to expand like natural, legal and digital persons people are always scared of this guaranteed self-execution and in this case that it's unstoppable unless you stop the whole network and then the first thing that people usually say is like oh that's Skynet what are we going to do we need a kill switch in the code what is your thought about if you would have a kill switch in the code that would take away the operational autonomy at the end so there would be a contradiction actually to have a person who not all blockchain based system are designed to be fully autonomous and if you start creating something where there is an owner of the smart contract or if you use like proxy contracts all this stuff I mean it is centralized but it's not autonomous because you have someone that is actually controlling the system so I mean I'm not sure yes it will definitely reduce the autonomy of the system so when we talk about decentralized autonomous organizations we probably talk about those particular types of smart contracts which are you know I mean whatever who knows what is a decentralized autonomous mechanism but of course it's never fully autonomous because usually you always have people that can vote with the tokens or with the reputation and things like this so it's not like fully AI based system but and the question is when does it stop from being a decentralized autonomous organization and it becomes like a centralized controlled smart contracts Thank you Hello I have done some experiments with Delaware series LLC and Ether and smart contracts but in this case isn't it global consensus that you can't have legal personality just by contracting isn't it a consensus that you can't have legal personality or personality is always granted and awarded by law and government absolutely that's the point it's like we have things that can technically do things that the law cannot understand or see because of the lack of legal personality but it's still happening they are still owning they are still processing Ether and they can still enter into smart contract and the question is who is the owner of the Ether that has been donated to it the partnership the partnership and the people in the partnership I'm assuming that you do have a general partnership probably if it's like a fully automated AI based system then we have another question Thanks Okay, thank you


implement the CARP plan and go with what you think is the most and most beneficial and then tell us what you did. And I think so I would support a more generic but more specific action oriented action based goal document. Andy. I think that there's several things that I think about one is need to think about the number and complexity of the goals and make sure in our own minds that it's reasonable. Because we have some pretty complex goals, and the awful lot of them. And is it fair to ask anybody to handle that number of complex goals, which then gets into the next question as to whether there are there's adequate staffing and resources available to do this, which I touched on a little bit and the evaluation I wrote, because I really am concerned that, you know, in the loss of Sean by and gano and several other senior staff people, including Brianna. It just seemed like we really have hit a point where it just may not be that we have resourced either in people or in funds to expect that does go that that number of goals can get addressed which then gets to my third and final thing, which is that we have to make sure that goals are doable. And to say that we want you to solve the problem of housing of middle income people in Amherst to make that more doable. There isn't, you know, a local problem or statewide problem. This is a national problem. And how can you have what what are we expecting. And is it reasonable again. So, I think that those are the kinds of issues that I hope the GOL. One of the things that I besides the fact that I think there's way too many goals and there's too many sub goals is how do we then look across the goals and say what of this is reasonable. What do we really want to do in other words if we lined up everything mentioned in those goals. And then we were to say, Okay, what is our what are our individual priorities. What are we going to do with that lineup. And then how do we say, of cross all of this what is truly reasonable to expect. So it's not just setting goals, it's saying, what are top priorities, what are we really where do we want the town's resources to be spent. The only thing is to acknowledge and somehow identify within the goals. What are multi year goals, and what could be accomplished in a year or a couple of years, and so that we don't get to the end of, you know, nine or 10 months, Oh, well that that wasn't accomplished when in fact, maybe it's not something that can be accomplished in that year for any number of reasons. So those are a couple of thoughts. I do want to remind counselors, particularly those of us that were on the first council. We actually used to rate the sub goals.  And yet, all of us find that, you know, G goal sub goal one. Yes, did well sub goal to did well. No, didn't do sub goal three didn't do sub goal for. So that creates yet another complexity as we look at these goals. Thank you. Jennifer. I agree with you, we don't want to have, I think you counted, you said in GOL there were like 90 tasks for the, you know, and that's crazy for that we would ask that of our town manager, but there's, I think some areas where we have to be specific and you know, like Paul's request gets in 2021 we were talking about the waste, you know, hauler bylaw. And then, you know, Paul said well, if we wanted, you know, staff time to be devoted to that we should make that a goal so there are some and it is a multi year because this is a community choice aggregation, which, you know, we have a real benchmark in February, I mean that we're getting close to that. That wasn't ever anticipated certain things that will happen in a year, but maybe perhaps because they're multi year, then we have to specify them in the town manager goals so because they do need staff time devoted to that. So I think that's the balance I don't think we want to just say, well, you know, I think we probably have to give more direction and asking the town manager just to choose what part of the carp that, you know, staff is going to work on we can do that to some extent but again something like community choice aggregation or waste hauler where we were asked to specifically cite that as a goal so that staff resources would be made available. Anna. I think I'm curious about how to best. So what I'm one of the things that I'm struck on is that. Well, some of us have been around longer than others in terms of our engagement on Council and other. Anyway, some of us run around longer than others it's 1055. We don't know all of the complexities in the ins and outs of Paul's job. And he does an amazing job giving us a very thorough self evaluation, but I'm really curious about the idea of if we made this a bit more of a joint process where I'm stuck on my initial action steps, if we were to create those objectives as a Council, and then present them to Paul who would pitch what he believes some of his action steps would be, and then we give feedback on those, because I think that for us to come up with some of the actual actions and deadlines for them and all of that doesn't necessarily take into account what is feasible and Paul is the one who has a better grasp on that so Paul I'm curious about your thoughts on kind of a deeper engagement on that part of the process specifically if we want to include specifics which I think are helpful for all of us in terms of knowing kind of what when done is done. But also recognizing that our help our our efforts are probably more beneficial in the overarching objectives. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of good points being made I think that's a successful goals one in which the, you know, the employee and the employer are sharing that that goal you in you, you know the typical smart goals you have the resources to identify the resources you need and all those things. I think the idea of the Council saying, these are our five top things. Here's the type of thing we want it and then having that be a dialogue I think it's really that would be a very powerful sort of unifying kind of conversation that happens. I think there's the document, the goal document usually tries to do two different things one is it has it serve policy goals and it has the sort of, are you doing your job like are you, you know, doing all the things that balance the budget type things right. And, you know, I don't know. It's never going to be comprehensive because we do a lot of different things and then also new things come up during the course of the year, you know, COVID. So, I think that, you know, I think we just have to decide what we want this document to be. You know, I think that the value just so you know how I look at this, the value of this is really high to me, each of your individual comments because I do read those I pay attention to those, not everyone but you know I try to do that. The, the summary thing that that Lynn works on or whoever's going to work on it. That's sort of an outward facing document, because the content is here the outward facing document is more for the public to see I think that's, when I look at things what I prepare for staff, it's like, it's going into your personnel file. So I do care about they care what it what it reads. And so I think that the purpose of the different documents can mean different things so I think you need to be communicating with your constituents you're elected officials on what you what your evaluation of the manager is. I think in terms of like my, the actual day to day performance that can happen through I hear that here and we can have, you know, I will obviously offer sit down with anybody wants to talk about it. I think shared goals and choosing what those things are and sort of saying like, is this there these the three five things that we really want to get done this year I think that'd be a really powerful document. It's going to be much more powerful than a gigantic list. But I think it's really hard to do because you have to say no, some things and I don't know if the council you've got 13 people. It's going to be hard to reach consensus on that. Totally. I mean, I was also thinking in terms of having many goals and doing little little of 1020 different things versus really going deep and getting some things really done. That's one thing but then I was like, how do we decide and that's kind of what we as 13 people. And that's one of the things that I've struggled with, you know, is how as a council are we prioritizing versus individually because it's my waist holler is that should come before anything else. I mean, I think we have to find a way as a group. I feel very proud of the work we've done in waist holler and where it is. And I didn't push there was a lot of, for example, suggestions that oh it's a very simple by law just pass it. But I knew they were the complexities and the impact it has and so there's a process of proposing it because you know the regulations required that we propose the full by law, and also we need to get feedback from residents to identify as from also there's a process that has to be done but all that to say that I think there is a way for us as a group to come up with criteria for prioritizing such as we've already identified our values in terms of climate action goals, racial equity, all of that Now within that, which other proposals that can start to make an impact with the least amount of resources like which doesn't require a new staff member or, you know, like so that could be one criteria, like, even within waist holler, yes, we could do with a new hire, but there are some best practices that are implemented, even without a new hire, right so I mean that's what I'm trying to say is like, is there a way to put in criteria where the sponsors are sharing that here is how we can have impact in racial equity or in climate change with the least amount of, you know, the maximum impact with least amount of resources. So that could be one criteria. I just need to note that somewhere around 1055 Michelle Miller had to leave the meeting. Pat. I was looking for her because one of the things she's in G a what. No, that's all right. Thank you. I can only remember to hold it and it still doesn't work. There's a word I'd like to share. Michelle made a suggestion that we have a retreat to focus on on what are our goals. And I think that's actually a really good idea because and and for me, the criteria and the actions, because it's the and I'm almost sitting here thinking, well, I don't agree with I'm just making this up with Kathy about such and such. So she and I should work on the action steps for that, you know, some way where we would have to come to some consensus or Mandy and I are what I'm really just using an, you know, an imaginary example. You know, whether or not that's something we want to do. And I think this would be best with the full new council. Then it would be to for this body now although I would hate to lose a Nica's voice, I would hate to lose your voice, things like that. So, Thank you, Pat. You took the words out of my mouth. A shared goal session goal setting session would be very beneficial. And I think at some point, it would be appropriate to include the town manager in that kind of work session to, I mean, I think we are responsible for setting some of the priorities. But we just had the conversation this evening about does does this new initiative take priority over everything else that we've asked the town manager to do for the year and I think that's the discussion I would love to have. Theoretically, if, if something like street light policy had been included as a, as a like an ecac goal or something it was our objective it was like, we really need to focus on dark skies. That would have been for me a more comfortable way to, you know, because we would have all had to to vote on that list. So therefore I would have put my stamp of approval on that being an action item or an objective for the town manager and it would not have, you know, seemed like came from, you know, it got priority over something else that that is on the list. Anyway, sorry about that Ramble. I just, it seems to me that we really would need to find a way to come to consensus because we don't agree about individual priorities whether street lights should come first or this come first or whatever. And so I think, yeah, how do we, how do we do that, I think would be a really valuable experience for all of us. I guess I need at this point to ask Pat and other members of jail, whether you think you've got enough out of this discussion to proceed. No. Yes. Actually, I think agree. Okay. Just to act like a grown up but I don't feel like that at 11 o'clock at night. Yes, I think we have some and I also would encourage any counselor or any staff member Paul Athena to send me the other ideas and I will share those at the next meeting. Pam, did you still have your hand up or. Okay. I did because I just thought of another criteria which I'm forgetting, but it'll come back to me in a minute, but like in terms of the criteria one was like, where we can get the maximum benefit with the least amount of resources and I had another criteria as you were just talking that I wanted to share. Okay. I still want to share it. Okay. It comes back in a minute. I'll share it now. All right, we're going to move on Kathy. I just have a question of what you want me to do because I like the idea of the retreat a lot. I think we have too many goals and we have too many actions and one of my evaluation comments of the manager is we gave you mission impossible and you did as much as you could about mission impossible. So, he at one point said someone came into his office and said, you know, six more staff positions and he said, well, if I can only do one, which one would you choose and they said six. So, I think, you know, I think, so I think the idea of a retreat if we if we could come to the four or five biggies and not put. You told me in that national health care in Amherst, I would have said, don't make that a goal. So we have a few that are are values, they're important values, but I don't know what else I can do on the document I have because I wanted to slim it down all over the place. And if you just want me to red line it or what I'm just asking for what I think I should spend my time. Pat, do you want people to submit to you suggested changes. Yes, I do. And if it redlining works for you then send me a red line copy. And it's a combination of comments sometimes and take this. Yes, with a comment. Why, okay. I have already sent each of you the town manager draft evaluation and actually use track changes and comments. So we'll do the same thing with the gold document. Yes. Do you want to, do you want to use the one that we're already starting to trim down. That's the document I was working on updated 1115. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fine. It doesn't. Yeah. All right. Can I, can I just share it though. I put my hand up. Yes. Oh, the crate one of the criteria that can be used I was thinking was in terms of community feedback. I might personally as a counselor want to put something forward but then there are other things that many counselors are hearing from the community like speeding or even the waste holler it came with a lot of not just the zero ways but there was a lot of community push for it. So like what are the. So that could be one of the not the only criteria but that would be one of the criteria is how much of the community is like is asking for that. I'm going to end the conversation note that Alicia Walker is also left the meeting. The next, there is a motion. It's to refer the town manager evaluation process to the geo coordinate governance organization legislation committee for report and recommendation based on the November 20 2023 town council discussion by and I would left we left the date empty. This is that same that same problem we had with the, the TSO right the town manager one. Should we just end it with discussion and not put a date on and they put it in the carryable. April 30, April 30, they could always do it sounds like a good idea April 30. 2024. Is there a second. Are there any other comments or questions. Shall I use this about this. Okay, then we'll move to a vote. Yes, comment. Yeah. Yes. So, am I understanding this request for referral appropriately. Like, we didn't really have a discussion per se, based on what discussion we didn't. You know, because this, this is not a referral of the goals. And it's not a referral of the document we talked about. That's already drafted. It's a couple people mentioned. We need a better process but we didn't really have a discussion of it. Yeah. I think it's we just take that whole piece out where it says and say recommendation by April 30, 2024. I guess what I want to clarify is are we aiming to simplify the process or simplify the document counselors submit or the memo, Paul, like all of it, like, like, which parts are we, since I'm on GOL, I don't know whether I'll be on it in a month, but like, what are we asking GOL to do. Personally, I think we're asking them to look at the whole process, including timeline, including timelines, including what the town manager is expected to submit, including whether we have mid year conversations, including whether or not we simplify a document, et cetera, et cetera. We remember we started having that conversation at one point and then we never got any further. Andy. Yeah, are we going to have goals for the beginning of the year that the chancellor is going to work on? And I also need to know that just because the finance committee always assumes that there are going to be goals that we're going to then adopt as the goals that work into the budget guidelines. So a little lost now is what we're doing. And the goal issue at this point, I think there seem to be a sense, let's try to simplify them. And Pat has said she will accept suggestions from other people by a date certain and send out a Word document like the document that's already in your packet dated November 15th. Where the GOL already tried to start the process. And the idea is the GOL still has to come forward with some goals. Yes or no, Pat. I think that's true because of what Andy said. So I think, but that, yeah, I think that we need to come up with goals to begin the year with. And that that will we will that's the very beginning of a process in which we will review creating those goals in first place and how we evaluate the manager and that would be due sometime in April. Does that make sense. And also that much prior to that would be a retreat where the new council would discuss goals and priorities. Yeah, and if and depending on how much work we're able to do in GOL, we may be able to present a lot at that in terms of process to at that retreat. Because never mind. Andy, does that make sense. The answer is yes, we still need to have goals, even if after the new council is seated for the discussion takes place and maybe there's revision in the goals, recognizing that you can't keep changing them if you want them accomplished. Yeah, and I'm also going to say that one of the things I need to think about is how can I trust and collaborate with all of you, not just get my way. And that's something I want all of us to think about about the current goals right now. Yeah. I'll answer your question. Yeah, I think that works. It's most important than the end is the town manager needs to begin work on the budget that he's going to present to us on May 1 by January, you know, very beginning of January, which is why we try and do the guidelines by the end of December. And we just have to accept the fact that we're going to come up with something that is going to allow us to do that that incorporates the goals as Pat described them. Right. And if they're adopted by the council and to fit together and we go forward. This is what makes the whole timing so difficult is the relationship of evaluation to future goals to financial guidelines to the budget. And they all fit together in a process. And to decouple one from the other begins to erode the ability to have any continuity. And so there is a motion I made. And I think we've modified and it's to refer the town manager evaluation process to the GOL committee for a report and recommendation by April 30, 2024. Is there a second. Second. Thank you. One other aspect of the goal setting is to include some kind of measurement of like, I know there were a lot of examples of we had so many events, so many trainings. I wasn't clear what is the impact of those trainings or how many people are attending them or even in terms of community events to have some kind of measure like we're doing all these trainings, but. How many people are participating and what is the impact of these to include that in the process. Pam. Okay. Are there any further discussion regarding this motion. Any further changes to the motion. No. All right, then we begin. I guess with myself when Greece person I. Mandy Johanna I a naked loaves. I show Miller's absent Dorothy Pam. Yes. Pam Rooney. Yes. Kathy Shane. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Hi. Jennifer top. Yes. Alicia Walker's absent. Yes. Shelly Balmille. Yes. Pat DeAngels. Hi. It's unanimous with two counselors absent. The appointments were done. We're going on to. Yes. Can I just ask my question. Do you have any comments to Pat on the town manager goals are due to her by when. And then when do they come back for the council to look at. They have to come back to the council on the fourth. So Pat. The 29th. So you're going to need to be. By the 27th. Monday. Got a lot of homework. Okay. Pat could. Can. Do you have a word document of them. Of those goals. Okay. Athena, could you send it out and ask people to return comments to Pat. Thank you. Committee liaison reports, Mandy, Joe. I guess the only thing I want to say is we're still working on new sense. But the council may receive some comments regarding a new sense bylaw draft because we requested. That. Public feedback. Requests and, and seeking of public feedback, we sent to a number of groups and the, the document that was sent. Said you can email the five counselors that are on the committee or the entire town council. So, so just don't be confused as to. Where that's coming from, but, but that's what it is. Okay. So the document, the, the latest draft of new sense will be in the CRC packet that Athena will post. At some point. But the one that they are commenting on is, is in the last CRC packet. This is a carry over item. It may or may not be a CRC carry over item, depending on how far CRC gets, it will be no matter what a town council carry over item, but it may or may not be out of CRC. I just was trying to figure out where it was going to fit in the packing order. And we did get one of those comments. And I did refer it to, I did suggest that people, the person that submitted it, put it in through the general public comment. Okay. Elementary school building, Kathy. It's the same report I gave last time the next full committee member meeting is the eighth we did get. We're on our way to going before the conservation commission and the planning board. We just haven't quite got the exact dates for that. And we're on our way to starting to dig at the site. And, and the early spring. I mean, the first packages due to go out, assuming we hit go over conservation commission and planning board to get there. So there is a meeting on the eighth. When does the fence go up? Kathy. When does the fence go up? I think it goes up. Right. When this, the package goes out in like February. So maybe we're going to be able to do that. So it's got a two phase, but I think the fence has to be up while they're digging. So no one climbs on the equipment that will be there. Right. That's why I asked. Finance committee. Andy. I think between. Right. When this, the package goes out in like February. So maybe March because the first part is moving dirt and bringing soil and really preparing the ground. So the physical construction isn't until the summertime. So it's got a two phase, but I think the fence has to be up while they're digging. Right. I think between the written report and all of you've heard already that you've had the report. Okay. GOL Pat. I have nothing else to add right now. Jones library and Nica. Well, I was out of town and reception last week. So I'm going to call on both Paul and Hannah if I could please. There was no meeting last week. There was no Jones library meeting. I can do TSO though. Sorry. I'm sorry. You were fine. I was just TSO on. This is past 11 PM humor. Okay. So I'm going to take, which isn't funny. So I'm going to take TSO TSO worked on the carryover memo for a while. We also started to talk about the. The, the two separate processes, one of establishing safety zone criteria and the second of talking about traffic calming at Cushman Scott. We sought feedback from the transportation advisory committee. We also sought feedback from the transportation advisory committee. Regarding the traffic calming at Cushman Scott. Thank you, Athena for sending out the speed study data to Tracy today. They are meeting on December 4th. Special. Thank you to the chair of tech for calling that meeting. They were not planning on meeting. And so we appreciate them. Accommodating our timeline. Sorry. Thank you. 30th. To be ready for our meeting the next week. Thank you. So the other thing about this is that we are separating out that traffic calming measures and the safety zone criteria will need to be something separate so that we don't accidentally create precedent. We also got updates on waste taller, which is continuing to press along, but we haven't final, they haven't finished reading through and summarizing all of the RFI responses. And then we also talked about Shalini's community engagement proposal, which will be coming back to TSO with a slightly different motion on how to proceed with that moving forward. Okay. Are there any. Committee liaison reports. Yes, Dorothy. You're muted. Okay. CSS JC is having two public forums. One on Cress online forum on the 29th of November. At 630 to 830. And a public forum in person in at town hall. On Saturday, the 2nd of December from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m. That's it. Thank you. Paul, anything from town managers. Nope. With regard to president's report, I didn't do one this week. I had something else I was working on. And any future agenda items. Besides the fact that we may get nuisance by law. But I think we're going to be able to do that. And I think we're going to be able to do that. Council. Councilor comments. I have one. Yes. When you say future agenda items, I, you did a miraculous job for about five meetings or four meetings in a row. And I was sure it was to encourage people to run for council. That we could have short, shorter council meetings. So I know agenda management is tough. But I think we should try to. If we can't get to things, we just can't get to things. And so our own timeline should be longer. That we shouldn't expect everything to move quite as fast. So that's just a request. I mean, I don't think there was any way of avoiding tonight because we also. Rightfully. Open it up for public, but. It looks like the fourth is going to be painful again. Are there any other comments? Seeing none. I'm going to adjourn the meeting at 1125.