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You're listening to the Naked Bible Podcast to support this podcast with the NakedBiblePodcast.com and click on the support link in the upper right-hand corner. If you're new to the podcast and Dr. Heizer's approach to the Bible, click on newstarthere at NakedBiblePodcast.com. Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, Episode 215, or 27th Q&A. I'm the layman, Trey Strickland, and he's the scholar, Dr. Michael Heizer. Hey Mike, how are you doing? Pretty good. Well, this is our second week in Israel, so hopefully things are going good. Hopefully. We're not actually live right now in the area in Israel, but this is week two of the Israel trip, so hopefully everything's good. Like I put on the Facebook page months and months ago, I'm not a prophet. It would be handy right here. It would be. Sorry. If anybody is a prophet out there, shoot me an email at treystrickland.com. And you can also send me your questions for the Q&A at that email address too. You want it in time for the fantasy draft. I know what you're angling for. Oh, I don't need any help with fantasy. Oh, yeah. Oh, I forgot. I'm all I forgot. Hey, the NFL Draft just happened last week. How'd your team walk away? Good. Good. I'm happy. Yeah. Cowboys did phenomenal as always. Of course. Can't complain. You know, we all know. All right. People probably don't want us to continue talking about American football. So why don't we just get into our questions of the week? Good idea. Our first two are from Marion. And the first question is. Could Dr. Heiser explain what the exact sin of Nadab and Abahu was? The strange fire mean coals from somewhere other than the altar. Was it because it was not Aaron offering the incense? Was it incense supposed to be burned on the incense altar? Well, this, this is a pretty easy one. I'm going to suggest to Marion that episode 73 in our Leviticus series, specifically the episode on Leviticus 10 answers all those questions. So I don't, I don't think I can sort of condense that in two minutes and improve on it. So that's my answer. Go listen to episode 73. Only if every eventually, Mike, we're going to have every answer. Question. Just go listen to certain episodes. I like that. Right. Of course. Question two is what is Mike's opinion on the lost chapter of acts found in Constantinople? Well, I had never actually heard of this. A lost chapter of acts found in Constantinople. So I looked it up there. It was discovered and published in 1871. This supposed lost chapter. There are zero peer reviewed articles on it. There are also zero dissertations. That's a bad sign. In other words, this has all the trappings of some sort of paleobabble kind of document that no scholar since 1871 has thought enough of to actually do any study on it. So again, that's a bad sign. But for the sake of learning about it, I did do some looking online since I don't have anything peer reviewed to go to. And we'll put this link on the episode website in case people want to see this. But again, this manuscript found in the late 1870s reports to be the acts 29 and a missing chapter of the book of acts. There are some really good at this link. There's some really good questions to ask. And again, these are the kinds of things that just make the whole thing stink. Where's the original manuscript? Now, the writer at this particular website notes this. The manuscript, if it existed at all, was found in the possession of a sultan in the late 1700s or early 1800s at the earliest. The information about the manuscript was first published in 1871, almost 150 years ago. There's nothing in terms of research databases or whatnot that show that the manuscript has been seen by anyone else in the last 150 years. The actual, you know, like original manuscript. What are what purports to be the original manuscript? That's a bad sign. That means that scholars can't take this original manuscript presumably, of course, written in Greek. If this was Luke's hand and a copy of something produced by Luke like the rest of the book of acts. There are literally millions, millions. I'm not exaggerating millions of Greek manuscripts from the period, not just to the New Testament. I'm talking about the like coin a Greek, you know, fragments, fragments of Greek material from the first couple centuries before and, you know, go on into the early Christian centuries overlapping with the era of the New Testament that have been found and catalogued and scholars work on them, put them into databases and whatnot. And to see that nobody knows where this one is is highly suspicious. Another question he asks is where are the references in ancient literature to a lost chapter of acts? Does anyone ever talk about something at the end? Is this this chapter being lost or does anyone ever talk about how it, you know, acts should not end at chapter 28? And the answer is no. Nobody even suggests that anything has been lost from the end of the book of acts. So again, another really, really bad sign. Now, if you do any reading on this, you'll find out that there are things in this presumed lost chapter that are used to promote the idea of British Israelism. And that pretty much is the death blow. This has again, all the marks of a manuscript contrived, made up to enforce an idea in the 19th century. Remember, this supposedly came out in 1871. This is one of those eras, 19th century, early 20th century, where this idea of British Israelism, you know, that the British Isles are the people there, vestiges of the lost tribes of Israel, that kind of thing. This is one of the eras where this was a big deal. And so again, this has all the marks of something made up just to promote this idea. So what do I think of it? Not much. Jared's question is about Episode 103, the Moses and the bronze serpent episode. And Dr. Heiser talks about how, as he often does, Genesis one through 11 is a polemic of later Babylonian creation and flood stories. And therefore, most likely one through 11 was written during the Babylonian exile. I was telling my wife this and she asked, why couldn't it be the other way around? I didn't have an answer. I've heard from nearly every scholar that Genesis is a polemic of the Mesopotamian stories, but I honestly don't know why. Couldn't someone just as easily say Genesis one through 11 was written first and those stories are polemics of Genesis? What are the reasons this is not the case? Because the Babylonian material is demonstrably older by a long shot. Let's just take broadly speaking, you've got creation stories from, you know, that are Sumerian, others that are going to be Akkadian, all of this sort of gets lumped together. It's Mesopotamian material, whether it's Akkadian from the Babylonian period or whatever, some other period than Sumerian. So the Sumerian Mesopotamian, Sumerian Akkadian stuff about creation stories that have parallels or not, you know, parallels is a fair word in some cases, but that somehow have a literary or a conceptual, you know, worldview correspondence to stuff in Genesis one through 11 is centuries, even millennia older than the biblical material, so it can't work the other way around. Now if we narrow that to, let's just say Anuma Eilish, the Babylonian creation story that is essentially written to glorify Marduk. Now if you believe that, even if you believe that, let's say that Genesis, Genesis one through 11 was written by Moses, so let's just give it a round number, 1500 BC, that would be 900, you know, to, you know, maybe a thousand years earlier than the Marduk story. That would be the case. Now that still doesn't help because a lot of the details of the Marduk story are older than that. It's just that in this particular creation story, the details are changed and manipulated to make Marduk the greatest of all gods and all that kind of stuff. So there are still threads even in that later text that predate the biblical material. If you're with most scholars, and I've said before, I think Genesis one through 11 was either probably a combination composed and heavily edited during the exile specifically to respond to the theology of the captors of the two tribes there held in Babylon. If you believe that, then the creation story, Anuma Eilish, again the Marduk creation story, and the Hebrew Bible specifically this material in Genesis one through 11 is really coming into being at roughly the same time. So it would be very, you're not even really helped by that because then you have to assume, this is sort of my second trajectory on this, why would we assume that an elite scribal class of Mesopotamians feel it's worth their time at all to respond to something a captive Jewish scribe is writing?   And who's paying attention to what they do religiously? We're living in Babylon. You know, it's not like the Jews have either the ability in terms of production or the permission to write something down and then distribute it throughout the empire and then Babylonian scribes look at that go oh boy we need to respond to this. It doesn't make any sense.  So, you know, looking at it in reverse just doesn't make any sense. You know, you have the chronological problem with the material from the get-go, but even if it was contemporaneous and some of it is but not a whole lot of it, why would an empire power like Babylon care about responding to the literature of a captive people? You know, there'd be no need. We're not afraid of your God. You're sitting here in Babylon. Our God conquered your God. Why should we care what you're writing? So, it just doesn't make sense either chronologically or sort of in the circumstances of the day. Our next question is from Jack. This probably seems like a weird question, but when Jesus was being tempted in the desert and was offered all the nations in return for Jesus the tempter, why would this not have fulfilled the mission? In Jesus' mind, he would be quote, sacrificing himself to rescue the nations, which at the time, if he didn't have foreknowledge of the entire plan, would seem to have accomplished his goal. Well, according to what we read in the New Testament about the temptation, Jesus wasn't sacrificing himself. You know, he wouldn't have been sacrificing himself. So, I think the premise of the question sort of undermines the question. The trade-off is worshiping Satan. It doesn't say the trade-off as well. Let me put you to death. We can't read the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe back into the account of what's going on with Jesus and Satan in the desert. And I'm not saying the questioner is, but that's sort of a familiar analogy to a lot of modern people because of the popularity of C.S. Lewis in the book. But Satan never demands Jesus' life. He doesn't demand the death. The trade-off is worshiping Satan. And I would say that you need a death. The Old Testament has lots of resurrection talk. And the basis of the resurrection is at stake here. You can't have... You need the first fruits of the resurrection. You need death conquered. And if we have the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world that suggests that he has to die and then to conquer death, he has to be raised again. So there are a number of theological ideas at stake here that just bowing down to Satan without having a death and a resurrection, it just doesn't accomplish what needs to be accomplished. Then you have typology of sacrifices. The blood sacrifice thing. There's that element as well. So, honestly, it just doesn't fit. There's another issue here though that we don't want to overlook. And that is the mission of Jesus wasn't only about reclaiming the nations. We can't just funnel the mission of the incarnation, the whole plan of God to be about reclaiming the nations. We have a number of problems that the Messiah has to fix. One of which is the death problem, the estrangement from God problem and the loss of immortality for humankind.  So we have these theological and conceptual elements to think about when it comes to the mission and then when it comes to what the tradeoff is, this whole thing about worshiping Satan doesn't involve the death and the resurrection. It can't be viewed as satisfying the whole point of the mission. Alright, our next question is from Jad. In Genesis 7, 19-20, there is mention of the floodwaters exceeding the heights of the mountains by 15 cubits. Is it possible that this statement is another example of a polemic by the biblical authors against the gods in their high places? Whenever I've been involved in discussion with fellow Christians about the flood event, this verse is often cited to justify the flood as a truly worldwide event. How should I understand this text? Yeah, I don't think you can get a polemic here. If we're... This is peripherally, I would say really peripherally, related to time of authorship. You could say that you're writing later either Moses but even that's a hard sell because what you need is you need a proliferation of high places in Israel so that people know what in the world is going on here. But that's really not the referent of the mountaintops. There's no indication that there's any specific top that you could say, oh yeah, that XYZ god from Babylon lives there and the author is shooting at that deity. There's nothing in the passage like that. There wouldn't have been any high places at the time of the flood. There isn't the worship of other gods at the time of the flood so that rules it out. And if you're going with what later writers would have known about high places, you would expect them to sort of plant something in there that would help the reader identify specifically that feature. Because as the reader reads this, the reader is not assuming that there's any worship of other gods at the time either. The reader would have to be directed to something specific and then mentally associate that something specific with a deity current that's part of their current knowledge base and there's just nothing like that. But having said that, I think there's a problem generally or at least a conceivable problem with using the reference to water over the mountains by 15 cubits using that to justify a global flood. On my website I posted my little thought experiment that hey, and the reason I did this I think is evident from the first paragraph. We should not... Those listeners out there who prefer the global flood they know fine. What I wrote on my website to make this point and really only this point that it's wrong for you to presume that the local regional view has no biblical argument. It actually does have a pretty good biblical argument. It's not that hard to make a biblical a text based argument for a local regional event as opposed to a global flood. I wanted people to know that because if for some reason it becomes impossible to believe in a global flood at some point in the future that shouldn't trouble you about the Bible because it's very easy to make a text based argument for a local regional view. Going back to this wording here you have to ask yourself questions like 15 cubits above the mountain tops the high mountains. How high is high? It doesn't matter how much the water overwhelms it. If you have a hill that's 1,000 feet tall in a regional event and that's over covered by 15 cubits that's impressive but that's not Everest. How high is high? What's a mountain? Because the same word used for mountain in the flood account can be used for hill elsewhere. Again I point these things out in the process of that article. A lot of people will take this language and assume they have this deeply compelling argument but they really don't and they fail. They get distracted I think unfortunately from addressing the arguments about the local regional view which they have to do. A lot of people who take the global view of the floods don't think they have anything to refute. They do. The issue of context is really significant because if we look at the flood account that the whole earth quote unquote the whole earth coal is overcome with water all a local regional view person look at Genesis 9 19 here's what it says these three talking about Shem, Ham and Japheth sons of Noah these three were the sons of Noah and from these the people of the whole earth were dispersed. It defines whole earth as the peoples and of course the lands that extend from Noah in other words it's the nations and the table of nations and that table of nations has nothing to say about Australia, China North America, South America, Central America, Canada either polar region has nothing to say at all about most of the planet instead it's a region it's the central eastern Mediterranean through Tarshish in there you get the whole Mediterranean and then what we know is the Middle East Tigris and Euphrates valley on up into Asia Minor and Turkey so is it conceivable that there was a flood that encompassed a huge portion of that region of the world because that's how the biblical writers in Genesis 9 define quote the whole earth unquote so that's what you as a global flood proponent you have to deal with that kind of argument which is another you know really why I put it up there as well to show people that look this is not a hill worth dying on the flood issue the flood debate and it's incorrect for global flood believers proponents to just presume they have no argument they have nothing to refute it this is so this is so self evident I have nothing to refute here it's actually incorrect there is there are a number of things here to think about so I don't think it's a really good use you know of that idea there are this this cubit thing over the tops the mountains because it's it's just the description the description itself is malleable it requires definition and if you have an argument that requires definition it's not that great of an argument all right Mike well we're going to end here short and sweet hopefully it's long enough to get somebody to their commute to their work or office so we'll go ahead and and stop the episode here Mike but again we're second week in Israel can you give us any idea what you're going to be talking about or just your wing in it well I'm I'm going to look at where we're going to be and pull out a few things that I think are interesting about either the location or kind of why that place was important in the flow of biblical history and hopefully you know there'll be some interesting things about Israelite religion along the way there are some obvious ones like go to Mount Carbel okay that's where Elijah had a confrontation with the prophets of Baal that's easy it's not so easy in other parts but we'll see you know we'll see just pull a few of those things out and chat about them all right we'll continue prayers for us if you will listeners please and please go check us out on facebook and subscribe to Mike's newsletter at drmsh.com and follow him on twitter if you will and I want to thank Mike for answering the questions and I want to thank everybody else for listening to the naked bible podcast God bless thanks for listening to the naked bible podcast to support this podcast visit www.nakedbibleblog.com to learn more about Dr. Heizer's other websites and blogs go to www.brmsh.com


Special collections, digital teaching collections, mainly consist of two different types of resources, multi-page items, and single still items or images. Clicking on an item consisting of multiple pages will take you to a page with a special image screen that allows you to virtually flip through the resource. Use the toolbar at the bottom to turn pages, zoom in or out, and change the view. The toolbar at the top features a place where you can search for specific words within the text. The navigation bar at the bottom of the image screen will drop pins on each page where the word appears and each occurrence will be highlighted. Single items, such as still images, pull up in a similar image screen but with fewer tools. Use the buttons in the top left-hand corner to zoom in or out, switch to full screen, or revert back to the original view. Once you zoom in, you can click and drag the red rectangle in the upper right-hand corner to view different parts of the image. If you want to download the image, simply right-click and select Save As. You can cite any type of resource using information found under Click for Details below the image screen. We take a deep dive into citing these materials in the Click for Details citations video.


The following is a production of New Mexico State University. The Rio Grande Botanic Garden is a gardener's delight on the banks of the famous Rio Grande. It boasts an excellent collection of water, conservative trees and shrubs adapted to the soils and climate of the southwestern high desert. Catherine Annetta, a gardener here at the Desert Collection, agreed to show us around and give us some recommendations. Catherine, it's nice to meet you. Hello, Curtis. You've got a lot of pretty plants here. Thank you. And what would you suggest that people consider growing? Well, one of the very colorful plants people can consider is the Budleia. The Budleia. It's a nice, low-water shrub. It comes in various forms. You have your upright variety, dark purples, two lavenders. And then you've got this one that we see here, this arching, firing all along the stem, very beautiful, fragrant. And then you've got Chimisa. Chimisa, very nice plant, very low water. Once it's established, you could just stop watering it, except in years of severe drought. And we need to be careful when we use the word Chimisa, because there's Chimisa and Chimisa, depending on who you talk to. One of them is the rubber rabbit brush. The other one is the four-winged salt bush. A little confusing. The rubber rabbit brush is a better ornamental. The four-winged salt bush can be used in really difficult locations, but it has a lot of problems. It's kind of a ranked grower. It is. So we want to stay with the prettier ones. Yes. And you've got red buds. Of all things, a red bud tree. Red bud. And one of the nicest is probably the Texas red bud.  And it likes the temperatures and the conditions. It grows well. It grows very well here. And you've got Horry Rosemary Mint. I like that one. It smells good. It does. And it does very well in sandy areas with very, very low water and cute little blue blossom zones. It's got a wonderful pepper-mini fragrance too.  It's really important if you buy that that you buy it from an area. The seed we're collecting from an area near you. Yes. The Mojave and the Chihuahuan does very well here. The Sonoran probably would not make it through some of our colder winters. So you need to get the right types. It's spectacular. It's a beautiful plant. Just a little bit of water. It makes an excellent flowering plant. And it smells nice too. And I know people who left New Mexico had always told me about the smell of the rain on the creosote. And so that's a wonderful plant to have in the Zero Escape. And you've got Mahonia. Mahonia. Relative of Barbaries, but it's not a Barbary. It's a Mahonia. That's correct. Sharp, spiny leaves. Sharp and spiny. Good place. Don't put it near the pathways. Don't put it near the pathways. Put it under the windows or in a place where you don't want people walking through, where actually it's a deterrent to traffic. But it has a nice fragrant flower in the spring. It can produce an edible fruit. And the fruit can be made into jellies. The birds are going to like it. But it's an excellent landscape plant too. It can be grown as a shrub or as a tree. It makes a beautiful dark bark. And then a mesquite. Mesquite. Very nice. We have a number of different varieties. And there are some that are more weedy.  The screw bean mesquite is very nice. And nice flowers, nice fragrant flowers. Nice fragrance. And then we've got the mesquite beans. We're not going to eat them. But it's going to make the beans. And the Mexican elder. The Mexican elder. Tends to scorch out in the summer. But it starts greening up early and flowers early. And so it fits into the landscape very well. It does. And you can trim it so that it has a gnarly appearance. Or you can let it just stay in its natural form. It fits in the landscape extremely well. It makes a small shade tree. Shades. Patio areas. It's a good plant to have. And if people want to know more about these, you've got the desert collection here at the Botanic Garden. Then come see it. This is a good place to come. And we recommend that you come see it. Catherine, thank you so much for the tour. Oh, you're quite welcome. Thank you for coming. The preceding was a production of New Mexico State University. The views and opinions in this program are those of the author. And do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the NMSU Board of Regents.


Hello and welcome to under the dome from town meeting TV. My name is Bobby Luciae under the dome is your community's source of information for the Vermont legislature and with The legislative session having wrapped up a couple of months ago We are now talking with the leaders of the Vermont legislature here in September to talk a little bit about what was accomplished this past session And what's coming up in 2024 so Last week we spoke with president pro tem of the Senate Phil Baruth and this week we're joined by speaker Jill Kowinsky Thank you so much speaker for joining us. Yes. Thanks for having me awesome So this was your second session as speaker of the house. Is that right my second biennium second biennium? Okay, right and but this was your first biennium fully in person Yes, we started in the chamber the first day everyone together, right? Okay, so how does that change the job? How is how does it feel to be you know had to be legislating in person as opposed to over zoom in the past couple years? Well, I will say that COVID really made us appreciate more the ability to govern in person together I will say that Governing on zoom we had to do it. It was important for public health and safety for us to do that But you really lose the opportunity to build relationships You're not running into people in the hallway and talking about a bill or an issue that's come up you know, you're kicking you're clicking like leave meeting and you're just in your office and your room by yourself and so I Was really proud of the way though that everyone came together to get through it And so it was even more special to be together that first date I swear everyone in in person and For those of us who were returning It was it was a big deal And I think like I said it just really made us appreciate the ability to be governing in person And there are things that we took away from Legislating on on zoom that we kept because it increased access to to the people To to come and participate in the building. So before COVID, you know, if you wanted to hear a committee hearing You had to go and request It from legislative council and you would be mailed a thumb drive now Now you can just go on our legislative website and click a link to youtube and watch the hearing either in real time Or go back to it and people can now participate by testifying on zoom and I I just think It's really opened up the doors to the state house in a way that we hadn't before and so That's been really important. So yeah, so great. It's great to be back It's a huge leap in access. Yes. We'll actually join the committee hearings And does it change the way that you actually legislate where you did you feel like the process was a little bit different When you're able to actually talk face-to-face with colleagues between hearings and things like that Well, we spent, you know, when when when the pandemic came we didn't have a Manual on how to govern remotely and so While we were, you know, working on zoom and passing laws and holding hearings We were making up the process as we went to make sure that we were doing everything we could to keep people safe and to be Effective and efficient and so we spent a lot of time talking about what that looks like and Testing out different methods, especially with how we returned and so it just took a lot of time To make sure that we had a process that was working and so Now that we have that set that Is helpful and we can return and be working in person without having to worry about what the next Step is or how we do it It has sparked some conversations about how we set up the building for success if some other sort of event happened And so we're actually in active conversations about what do we want the state house to look like should we expand should we Look at battering our HVAC systems. And so That's something that's underway right now. And I think we all are looking forward to have to having this conversation because For us it's just so important that we're doing everything we can to make the building a warm and welcoming place And we got a plan for the future. So that's underway right now Great So we'll talk a little I know there was a busy session a lot accomplished this year But first we'll just take a sort of step back big picture What does your office do? I know you're the one at the podium kind of leading the house in in some ways But what do you what does your office do behind the scenes and what is your sort of job description like sure? Well, first off, I have to say it is such a pleasure and honor to serve as speaker of the house I had never planned on doing that and After serving as majority leader The speaker at the time lost her re-election bid and we kind of had to make a decision about who was going to run And I think my experience through covid And my experience in the building led me to to go for this role and to run for it And I've been really proud to have the full support of the body republicans Independence progressives democrats all supported my election and that was meaningful This the office of the speaker is just no two days are ever alike. It's a it's a fantastic job where we Manage the flow of bills between the house and the senate. I preside over the house chamber I'm the spokesperson for the house of representatives. I am the lead negotiator with and communicator with the administration and There are things that just happen day to day in the building that come up that need to be addressed I work closely with our legislative council on bills Our joint fiscal office on understanding the money behind the bills And work with our sergeant arms to make sure that the building is safe and things are running Efficiently, but it's great. I have to say that There are these moments that we have that are just so special. For example, we had The girl scouts come and visit and it was great to spend time with them and take them to the podium And I made sure every single girl stood at that podium and was like you could be here someday and those moments Whether it's talking to young girls about what they could do and what's possible or gaveling out after passing a historic housing bill or child care bill is pretty incredible and I also see it as my job is to work really hard to bring people together and to get things done Yeah, so you must work pretty closely with The folks in the senate side so the house is one half of things in the senate Is the other so we spoke with president pro temphill bruce last week and talked with him about some of his reflections on the session What is your collaboration with senator bruce office look like and how do you Yeah, what does that look like to be working alongside the senate recognizing that it's a different chamber with different Different voting priorities sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's it's been great to work with senator beruth Before that I worked with senator ballant And so I had some experience of how to work with the other chamber and to work collaboratively to get things done And so that means many many different things it's communicating about legislation and Figuring out the path for for our high top priority bills. It's how we collaborate with bringing our members together One thing that we've talked about doing more is holding more joint hearings Which I think is really important and shows that we're working together and hearing the same information at the same time We work together with communicating and Negotiating with the administration and that's really important And I think that it's uh, it's up to us to set a good tone and show How we can work together The the governing process is set up for some tension Between the house and the senate. That's not unique to our state. Every state Talks about that. I was actually just at a conference with all the House speakers And it was a topic that came up is how to work well not only across the aisle but across chambers And I think we've done a good job in and living up to that expectation to do that and I think Communication is just key just like with any job to make sure that we're on the same page and under listening As to what the concerns are and how we work work together Right, so there's collaboration with the other chamber and then there's also a collaboration with the administration and that I mean this was a pretty historic session in terms of the amount of vetoes that governor scott signed What is your collaboration with the governor's office look like are you how often are you kind of meeting with him in his office And you know speaking with them about the work that you're doing throughout the session and and off session Yeah, absolutely Well, we meet on a regular basis when we're in session and again, I think communication is key Um, I try if I'm going to be sending out a press release Asking him to take action on something I try to give him a heads up that I'm going to do that I think it's really important that we're taking time to listen to one another and to hear each other's concerns One example I'll say I'll talk about is around the emergency housing transition with the hotels and we were really struggling with how the administration was showing up and We asked for a meeting with him to talk about it and out of that meeting We came up with the framework for a bill for us to work on together and so, you know, I think What I've seen in other states, it's pretty rough. I think here We do try really hard to work together and the flooding, you know has been a very tragic event that's impacted so many people It's impacted our capital I've spent time in berry Talking to people there about their struggles and it's really critical that we work together To make sure that we're doing everything we can in this recovery and we'll absolutely be working on that when we return in January As I mentioned, there were quite a few bills passed including some that that overrode the governor's veto Do you want to talk about just a couple of the bills that you're really proud of that that made it out of this session? That'll have an impact on Vermont communities. Absolutely. Well, you know before the pandemic happened We knew housing was an issue Especially affordable housing in the state and then when covid came it just made the problem even worse And now we have the flooding So housing has been and continues to be a top priority for us last legislative session We passed an epic housing bill that really invested in affordable housing incentivize building In downtowns with different types of you know, duplexes Triplexes we want to discourage sprawl and encourage building in downtowns and we invested money for first-time home buyers and really laser focused on how we can do better with affordable housing You know right now it's so costly to build right the the cost of supplies The supply chain has been very challenging for us So we're slowly seeing these units come online And I was just in Morrisville a couple weeks ago and there were multiple buildings And homes in different corners of the town Coming online and opening up units and so it's exciting to see it out across Vermont happening But we have to do more so we'll be tackling that when we return in January Our child care bill was also The product of years of work to get to the point where we can Invest in our child care providers create more slots and help families afford it You know when I talk to small businesses across the state They're like the two things we have challenges with this housing and child care, you know, we can't Hire people because they can't find places to live or when the when an employee has a child They can't find access to child care So they leave and stay home people shouldn't have to choose between their job and taking care of a child We can do better And so I'm really proud of our child care bill And then we did some really interesting work around workforce development So for the last several years, we've been investing money into grants and forgivable loans around critical careers Like creating more jobs for electricians carpenters nurses We have a nursing shortage in our state that is very very much a big problem And so by investing in these careers people are getting job training and we're creating workers for for the The businesses out there that need it. So I think that those connections have been really helpful and supporting our working families and helping our state thrive I'm going to be heading up to Newport soon for a project that was born out of a legislative priority of ours We are we put money into training programs for tech ed and There are students that are learning how to build and rehab houses They got money through one of our state programs to buy a vacant home to Rebuild it and so we are seeing a home that's going to come back online And I think they're going to actually make it a duplex even maybe so possibly two homes online While they're getting trained and they're going to be ready to get hired After with the people who are helping to run the training and so it's just great when you see An idea that was formed in a committee room and then see it out in a community actually happening and and people Just really thriving on the programs and so that's been great. Yeah You mentioned the legislature's laser focus on housing. I want to ask Quickly about the motel housing program and how that progressed So this was a and this was a program that was funded by federal COVID funding right during the pandemic to house as many as 3000 over 3000 people in hotels and motels throughout the state And then that federal funding dried up because it was COVID related and the program was set to expire this summer At the beginning of the session it wasn't it didn't seem like something that was You know prioritized at the top of the list in terms of legislators or the governor saying that they wanted to extend this program Then towards the end of the session. There was this big push to To make sure that these people were not you know mass evicted from from the motels And when all was said and done a form of the program was extended About 2100 people were allowed to stay in motels until next april is um What currently is passed and and the state has now taken on the the expenses for that program. Is that correct? Some of it I mean, I just I think the question is just what just sort of walk us through what happened like how you know There wasn't really on the radar in the beginning of the session. It seemed and then it kind of Gained traction and there was this pivot to to put together a bill at the very end So we had many programs funded by the federal government during during the pandemic to keep people healthy and safe this motel I don't call it a program because literally they just sent a check to cover the housing for the motel so there wasn't any services really provided it depended where you lived on what kind of supports you got and It has been on our radar and has been a priority to figure out How can we transition these families so that they can be successful? I think it's a disservice just to keep people in hotels without any sort of wraparound services and then you know Not to have anything after is a huge problem And so we worked throughout the session to find ways to transition families so that they can go into housing That has supports around it And that's where the tension was and continues to be is because there's not housing available And so communities are coming up with different solutions and how to support people exiting From the hotels, but also we do have a larger homelessness issue in our state And so I think another thing that was important to us is that we weren't just focused on this population But also the wider conversation of how we can support Unhoused vermoners and and to help them find a path to success. So during the session even last year we were having this conversation of what we can do and and there were lots of different ideas and Debates around how we do that and I think people And all everyone in general wants to support this population and find a way forward And I think there are lots of ideas and that was the tension of how we do that I think we landed with a good compromise with the administration, but I continue to be concerned about how this transition is happening You know, we've been asking the administration for updates on On the different programs that we've been funding. We haven't been getting a lot of information So our joint fiscal committee has been doing a lot of oversight And I encourage people who are interested in this topic to watch and to get information there But we have a we have a path and I just have to say our community providers who have been out there working in the field Have been incredible and they were burnt out already from covid and then we have You know this issue around supporting our unhoused and then the flooding and so We just have incredible staff across the state who are working so hard To help and so if you ever have an opportunity to see them and thank them, please do because it's so important Yeah, and so you mentioned we we have this path. We also have it seems like another sort of deadline for the program in april What's the what's can you say a little bit more about the path forward after april? Do you see the do you foresee the program being extended again? Or how where do you see these folks? finding housing after the program ends right Right. So that's what we're doing now is we have a process laid out so that Community providers have access to different programs available to help this population In the meantime, well, we're seeing what's working and what's not working out in the field We are prepping for january to really look at how can we Be more prevention and making sure that people are able to stay in their home so that we can prevent people from being unhoused So there's a model called housing first Housing first is making sure that people have a home and receive services We have it happening in some corners of our state, but it's not statewide This has been a program used in different states and people have found success with it And so our question is how can we make it? What's the vermont version of that look like and how can we roll that out? So we're looking at ways to create more affordable housing and looking at extending this program in some way Our general assistance program that helps families and need Really needs to be modernized and I think that we can do a lot And modernizing that program to help families Be on a better foot for success So those are some of the examples of what we're working on to prepare for january When we look at how we can do better around supporting our unhoused vermonters And we'll continue to monitor, you know the situation with the transition and see again You know, it's a lot of people at one time when we don't have a lot of housing already and so Making sure that We're using all of our tools in the toolbox to to help them find success right and senator bruce last week Sort of mentioned that there might you know if there's not a clear solution in place for for many of these folks Come april the program could be extended. Do you see that also being on the table? Everything's on the table I just think that and there's things that we don't know about that could happen Like we could have another I really hope this doesn't happen, but we could have another outbreak That causes us to have to go back to Being extra safe and being governing online or Making sure that everyone's housed right like there's just Everything is in flux right now but When it comes to this program and other programs to help people We will continue to monitor it and if it needs to be extended or there's another way that we come up with like We have to do that. Mm-hmm. And just on the funding side of things. This is seems to be a pretty expensive approach paying motel owners 140 a night for each room. Is that What's that? It's about right so in the legislation that we passed so the administration did have the ability to negotiate rates with Hotels we didn't see that happening to the to the extent that we wanted So we did put that in our bill at the end to give them the authority to do that I have not heard if they were successful in negotiating lower rates. I know that they were working on it But it is expensive and that's why There was tension to say like is this the best way to house people And if it's not what are the alternatives that are good for them that provide services and aren't as costly Yeah, is there is there any, you know, where might Other folks in Vermont communities see the impact of extending this program and their taxes and their finances As you pass a bill to foot the bill for this this program that was covered by federal funds Right. Well, we are Looking at different ways to fund these programs next session I think that modernizing our general assistance program And looking at different ways to house people will make it more affordable for vermonters across the state For now, we've said that this is a priority and that It's important that we're doing everything we can to house the house People who need it and try to get them the support. So I really see us in the transition right now Um, but I you know housing has just always In recent times been a struggle for us and so again, that's why it remains a priority And we'll be doing more work this session that I think will make it better I want to shift to a sort of related subject, which is the overdose crisis So at least in burlington and and throughout the state there's been a lot of discourse about both public safety and The increase in overdoses and overdose deaths in the state You live in burlington. I also live in burlington. I live on elmwood and I've seen a huge increase just this summer in drug use on the streets and property theft and I've also seen, you know, we've seen the data There's an unprecedented level of overdose deaths on the streets this year And so and we asked our our followers on social media, you know, we're talking with the legislative leaders What do you want us to ask them and the majority of questions were about Or about this issue and and how you are thinking about the overdose crisis So, um, how are you thinking about both public safety? Are you feeling safe in burlington? And also, how are you thinking about the overdose crisis and how to support people who are who are using drugs? Yeah, so this session we passed a bill that was laser focused on substance misuse prevention and We in that effort created a statewide syringe program It increased access to treatment for those who are on Medicaid And put more money into prevention and for the workforce that are supporting People who are in recovery And we did some work on recovery housing as well because there's a big need for that as well surprise housing again coming up But it is something that we know is a problem and will continue to work on I hope that we start to see some of the the Work of that bill being implemented to help what's happening out In our communities, you know, I I live in the old north end. I've I've seen the uptick as well I feel like in our neighborhood we've worked really hard like as a neighborhood watch to be supportive Of what we're seeing on the street and helping people if they're in need But we are seeing this uptick and it's very very concerning and so I'll continue to work with Our city administration. I just was talking to the mayor the other day To make sure that the city is getting the access that it needs to the resources that we provided in this bill And I think we're going to just need to continue to collaborate and Figure out what are the the biggest needs and what's working and what's not working It's not going to just go away. You know, there's not one policy that's going to fix this right because it's a combination of treatment housing and other services and We have you know a challenge with having enough staff to provide services and so again, that's why We're focused on workforce as well to help with this problem, but it's it's concerning. It's very concerning Yeah Is there anything that you foresee coming up in 2024 in the legislature that you know, you hope would impact this issue? Absolutely. Yeah, so more funding and support for workforce to have more access to People who can provide treatment Knocking down any other barriers that we hear about with access to treatment You know, for example, we hear stories as we're traveling the state about You know one provider for example was talking about access to telemedicine and it's like yes Like what can we do to make sure that everyone has full access to telemedicine when receiving treatment? So we learned about some things that are could make the situation better And that's why it's so important for us to be out talking to providers around the state and so again Workforce is really important more funding for programs to to help people and recovery housing Right And I want to shift to something that didn't pass this year and that's A bill to address family paid family leave in vermont and so we saw the house prioritized paid family leave this year and Seems like you had enough votes not just to pass a bill of a significant investment in paid family leave But also to override a potential veto and then in the senate side There actually weren't enough notes votes at one point at least to even pass the bill by a simple majority And so how are you characterizing right now the differences and the priorities between the house and the senate on that issue and I think it's just you know, how do you how's it possible for Two the two chambers representing the same constituents of vermonters to be so far apart On an issue like this and what's the path forward? Sure. Well, first I'll say I don't think we're that far apart I can't speak for my senators, but I can tell you about our experience and to start with I just think it's important to Discuss why paid family leave, right? So in vermont, we are an aging state and so We have a lot of families that are taking care of their their parents Their their the older people in their lives and their children Um, this is it's not sustainable with work And I hear stories from every corner of the state of people struggling to take time off of work and to take care of a sick parent and That's a horrible place to be And I talk to businesses that say like I'm losing employees. We can't hire people and so Just like childcare and housing we view paid family medical leave as a way To help keep people in the workforce and to take care of themselves and their family We've been working on this bill for years In fact, one of the first study committees I ever was assigned to Like 10 years ago was on a paid family medical leave Study to see how can we make this a reality in vermont? We Two bienniums ago we passed paid family leave out of the house and the senate The governor vetoed it. So now we're coming back to take another Go at getting this across the finish line I think that in general people Support the concept. It's how you pay for it And I think and that's just so many issues that we talk about is how is it funded and so That's where we're continuing to do work over the summer and fall is to look at different options And as I meet with other speakers across the country, I'm asking them how they did it And there's several different ways and approaches. And so I think our next step is to say, okay What are the different options available? And what fits for us? What makes sense for us in vermont? And so we're we're still working hard on it. Yeah So what was the funding mechanism in the bill that was introduced this year in the house? It was a payroll tax that was split between the employer and the employee And we ended using that mechanism to fund the childcare bill. So Again, we got to find another Another way another approach on how we can support it But you know one thing that I'm really proud of with this bill is that It doesn't define families In the normal way. It's big. We're all in vermont. Some of us, you know, like my neighbor Is is like my my mom, you know, like we were The way that we define who we support and love is just different And so I think what was really important to us is to say like this is about taking care of the people In your life that you rely on and you care about so that if they get sick You don't have to explain a relationship You're able to take care of them and and that's really I think that's just really important that it reflects who we are And how we look as families now Right. Yeah, I I really I really appreciate that, you know in vermont family can look a lot of different ways Yeah I was reading article in vermont digger about the difference between seeing the child care the push for child care bill Which was successful this year and the push for family and medical leave and the child care push was really well funded and had Had, you know, let's grow kids is this really large organization that was pushing for that work And the paid family medical leave side of things There isn't sort of an equivalent really sort of a powerhouse advocacy organization that's pushing for this Do you see that playing a role? I mean, I remember a quote. I forget who it was from an advocate for The paid family medical leave bill saying, you know, especially on the senate side of things It's hard to get an issue in front of senators unless there's a lot of funding behind an advocacy push Do you agree with that scent? Does that kind of or you know, what do you think is How do you think about resourcing and advocacy when it comes to these issues? Is it and is there a big difference there? Yeah, I think that you know when you first of all, let's grow kids is an amazing organization That's done really great work in educating the public about the need for child care And for the bill that we we passed that's really important Um, I think it's really critical for us as legislators Not to to treat issues fairly and not to You know, if there's not a coalition that doesn't mean that there's not a need for it I I have seen the growth of a coalition behind the paid family leave bill this summer AARP has taken a greater role and interest in this which is fantastic So I think that there is work being done as part of a coalition, but it's important that We to retreat all these issues equally and and give These topics the the time that they that they need and like I said, you know, we've passed this before This isn't the first time and so I think that The coalition that was there to support it the first time around Has changed and people have left and you know, it's an evolving group, but At the end of the day, we need to take what our constituents Ask us for and ask for help for and act on that and that's what's important I want to shift now to talking about the flooding from this summer So it looks like at least 4,000 over 4,000 homes have been damaged by the flooding And many small businesses are struggling to reopen and some are having to close their doors So you just talk a little bit about how the state is responding to the flooding damage And what does recovery look like and are their resources actually there to meet the need that we're seeing right now? Yes, yes, absolutely So I have to say that FEMA has been incredible and helping our communities across the state who've been impacted by the floods They were on the ground quickly with the red cross providing services and now we're starting to see that shift from crisis to recovery and so FEMA is now starting to close their doors With the headquarters that they set up across the state And we're waiting to hear back to understand what is being covered and not covered by the federal government for the floods There are multiple programs out there to help homeowners and small businesses And and employees who are impacted Kind of bridge them And get them to a better place, but that's not going to be enough if we know that's not going to be enough So another thing that the federal government Recently announced was that we could use ARPA funds in recovery efforts So if it's whether it's fires or flooding That we could use those funds that's new and that's super helpful for us So right now we're gathering information about what the what the needs are and we'll have a better understanding when we come back in January where the gaps are with the federal funding and with ARPA And what state dollars will be needed And we have to expect that flooding events like this will continue to happen as the climate continues to warm So how is the legislature thinking about climate resilience in the state and making this recovery process easier and avoiding, you know Folks living in flood plans who are devastated over and over by these flooding events You know, how is the legislature thinking about climate resilience right now? Absolutely So we are working on legislation on this very topic. I'm very excited about it It'll be a lots of different aspects from the question of where to build And how to build to be resilient from floods, you know, it's been fascinating to watch The community in Montpelier talk about whether they want to keep their downtown Where it is or to move it because it is in the flood plain And I think it's just natural that towns and cities, you know, grew around water, right? And and it's part of the their identity And so they just made recently made the decision to stay that they want to keep Their businesses downtown. So that means what measures do we need to take to help them be safe from flooding in the future? What does that look like with With dams? What does that look like with how we just manage water? and in rivers and so The chair of the environment and energy committee Representative Amy Sheldon is working with a group of members on what that bill That bill looks like and so I think there's a lot of momentum for that this session and I look forward to getting that across the finish line Yeah, now I want to shift to a couple of issues that are That we're thinking about a lot here at cctv and town meeting tv The first one has to do with language access So the office of racial equity released a report earlier this year recommending some investments in Expanding language access and translating materials across state government The language justice project housed here at cctv has been producing informational videos in 17 different languages spoken in vermont Refugee and immigrant communities across the state Videos about how to take a covid test or how to access food access programs and how to enroll in health insurance things like that most recently we also The project released a bunch of videos about how to stay safe during the floods and and how to recover from them safely But there's still we're just seeing a huge need for this life-saving information to actually reach These populations that have language access needs. So how are you thinking about how's the legislature thinking about language access right now? and particularly particularly for folks who Are who struggle to read and write even in their own languages and are Are are responding? I mean we've seen a lot of Engagement with you know, very simple videos that are able to communicate ideas as opposed to sort of complex translated Written materials that are kind of hidden on a website. So how are you thinking about that? well, uh, this is something that we have been looking at at the In the legislature and in fact Our government operations and military affairs committee heard a presentation about about this and Was it had a request for more funding and they were like absolutely. Yes. So in last year's budget adjustment We had a million dollars invested in this work and we'll continue to do that It's something that we think about too as well as a legislature and last year we actually Uh created the The opportunity for people who don't speak our language to pick which language They want to see the legislative web page in and I think there's over a hundred languages that are available And so it is it is important that everyone in our community have access So that they can you know fully participate and know what's happening. And so Like I said, we've invested money In this effort and we'll continue to in the future. That's great. And then Last question here. I want to shift to town meeting tv's work as a government access center so we're one of 24 access centers across the state and Community media and public access centers are funded by a fee on every cable subscribers monthly bill And that money is then entrusted to municipal representatives to develop contracts with town meeting tv and other access centers to cover municipal meetings and also Cover events out in the community and and and make media resources available to people And as we all know media consumption is certainly not declining But cable subscriptions are in decline and so access centers are receiving less and less funding each year to cover and and To cover the the democracy that we're all trying to participate in and so this is just one example There's a kind of a larger question here about funding mechanisms becoming outdated or you know another example would dv electric vehicles causing the revenue from the gas tax to decrease So how do you think about funding mechanisms that are kind of evolving and as they kind of Become out of date or or you know trying to update them. Sure. Yeah Well, first of all, I have to say every every town town meeting day. I'm watching cctv So I appreciate All your work and creating more access for the public To our local government. That's great. Uh, this has been an ongoing conversation that we've been having I've sat down many times with lauren glenn to talk about how we can Do a better job to support Local media and I know we're we're actually going to be meeting sometime soon to talk about it So, uh, I think it is important for us to be looking at how we modernize how we fund things and that's not a new conversation Like you mentioned electronic vehicles and so there's um many examples of places where we're taking time to really look at How can we update this to match what's happening in our communities right now? And so I think uh, how how we fund public access television And other things is is something that we have to do and we'll continue to do I don't you know, we don't have an answer right now I think that we need to have a lot more testimony on it and hear from brahmaners about how they want To to support this work. And so, uh, we'll be we'll be talking about that in january And we have a couple minutes left Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you want to make sure that you mention here? Sure Uh, a couple of things that, uh, didn't make the the headlines in a big way That I think are important to brahmaners. Um, so we have we talked a little bit about mental health But we have a crisis on our hands with suicide in our state We have one of the highest rates of suicide in the country And over the last couple of years our numbers have been steadily going up and that's unacceptable We're failing our our people and so We had a bill this last session that looked at how can we Have longer term Protections and support for people who are in crisis in short term The short term bill is what we call their suicide prevention bill that had a waiting period to buy guns It expanded our extremist protection order law so that people had greater access to say this person is not safe to have a gun And and did some provisions around state safe storage We've passed waiting periods several times and the governor have vetoed them But this year We were all in um, I'm making sure that we got this across the finish line because we can't wait any longer 72 hour waiting period Shows that we can save lives and I know it was controversial But I have to say we had the support at the end Over a hundred members supported this bill and it went into effect in beginning of july And in august we got a text message Someone on a member Got a text message that said I just want you to know that it worked And that a young man In crisis tried to buy a gun and couldn't and he is alive today because of this bill and so That's so meaningful It's it we don't often hear when something's working we hear about when it's not working And so to know that this bill is already saving lives is huge Yeah, wow Speaker of the house jill corinsky. Thank you so much for joining us and talking about all that you're working on We really appreciate it. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity Awesome, and thank you for tuning in to under the dome from town meeting tv You can find this program as well as our interview with senator, uh, phil baruth On our website, uh, ch 17 dot tv or on the town meeting tv youtube channel. Thanks for tuning in. Have a great day