Effect the taste you like artichoke Yes Delicious food spinach also would take that on pizza bell pepper Greens on the on pizza to be honest. I'm not either but I'm like if I'm getting my rough edge I will do something besides a lover. I I would even take broccoli on pizza. I There actually is a broccoli pizza at a pizza or a gasmica in San Francisco, which is I know I've had it Yeah, it's a good one that place needs to be vacuumed once in a while, but it's really good cockroaches Could Literally looks like it was it's a holdover from the 60s. That's a really forgiving review right like If I could just nitpick a little bit just a little bit maybe not the cockroaches They don't help the situation You might get five. Oh, okay. One important question for you Vlad is this Bulgaria have Turkish delights Like art like as a common thing Not particularly common, but we know of them we have them around them in England too. I mean, I know but You know in Turkey, they're just called delights No, like supposedly there what's the fruit orchard kind brand in the US was if you read the story that comes with the box There's from two brothers from Turkey who started it and sounds curious. I actually don't know what Turkish delights are What are they like? They're like little cubes that are gel and kind of jelly like Yeah, ah, I love it and they just covered in powder sugar. It's sugar. Mm-hmm. Great. All right It's gelled sugar covered in powdered sugar Asians love it because it reminds them of cartilage Cartilage but yet dessert that's another good Oh Goodness. All right, you guys ready to do some daily tech news. I think we are all right Then we shall begin Here we go in three two Kathy Jay Greenwood has supported independent tech news directly for five years be like Kathy become a DTNS member at patreon.com slash DTNS This is the daily tech news for Monday April 8th 2019 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane and from a slightly overcast sky in LA County on the show's producer Roger Chang Very excited today to have Vlad Savov senior editor from the verge on the show. Vlad. Thanks for joining us Thank you for having me you are in the midst of testing a bunch of podcasting equipment and We were happy to provide a little a little test bed for you today Yes, this is all for me. Thank you. I Started the show five years ago knowing that this day would come for you That was fantastic We're also to talk to Vlad about his review last week about the Huawei P30 and a little bit about if we're missing out a lot Yeah, especially here in the United States in Canada where we're not going to get it except through the gray market But let's start with a few tech things you should know In an updated S1 filing Pinterest said its IPO price between 15 and 17 dollars per share It will offer 75 million shares raising 1.125 to 1.275 billion dollars and valuing the company between 10 and $11 billion overall Pinterest was last valued at 12.3 billion dollars into 2017 at private funding rounds Android police reports 14 HTC apps have been Unpublished in the last three months some coming and going like the HTC mail app which disappeared came back and appears to be gone again No word from HTC on why the European data protection supervisor is investigating Microsoft's contracts with the EU institutions to see if they comply with the GDPR the Investigation was started as a result of the Netherlands filing eight GDPR violations in office pro plus and office 365 and was concluded in February Microsoft says it plans to modify how it collects user data by April of 2019 in order to come into compliance. All right, let's talk a little bit more about the war between Netflix and Apple It's a war depending on who you ask Yeah, Netflix confirmed it removed airplay support from its iOS app over the last week due to a Technical limitation that's what Netflix said it was a spokesperson told the Verge that this limitation was that the airplay Do doesn't have sufficient digital identifiers for third-party devices and as a result Netflix cannot certify users are getting the best experience when casting to a device Vlad I got to throw this to you. I Mean, what is this actually a legitimate reason? Well, I mean, I'm not the technical person here Well This is kind of it just reminds me of the way to Google users YouTube and the way to Google has used it in the past When Windows phone was a thing Google fought really hard to make sure there was no YouTube app on Windows phone When Amazon's echoed and Started getting displays Google fought really hard to make sure it didn't have proper YouTube playback with the echo show so It's just the way that these companies kind of You know, they have these little skirmishes between them Netflix makes a really big deal out of The the partnerships that he has with You know companies like LG and Sony the TV makers and the way that it recommends them and Apple comes in the middle of that relationship with airplay Yeah, and whatever is happening behind the scenes between Netflix and Apple, you know, it has displays Netflix It this intermediates that relationship with the TV makers and therefore now Netflix is kind of flexing what muscle it has Yeah, Netflix is no longer part of Apple's payment system Netflix has never been part of the television app on iOS or Apple TV This there could be a legitimate technical reason why not having the device IDs would mean that Netflix doesn't know Which particularly tailored stream to send Netflix does a lot of optimization To make sure that their streams look really good on whatever platform But it does strike me as a situation where Netflix is trying to get as much leverage over Apple as possible I Don't buy that they're exactly afraid of Apple getting into the streaming business so much as they just want to make sure that They keep control of their user interface and their customer data and they see Apple reaching for that stuff Yeah, I would agree. Um, there's almost The argument to be made on Netflix is part of like we just couldn't figure out how to give the customer the best user experience is like That's not what's happening with Apple right now, you know That's just not what's happening. So, okay, there's something else going on. Gotcha. You're you know, you're now competitors So no, it's an IKEA announced two speakers under the name Symphonic that will sell in IKEA stores. One is a table lamp with the speaker built in that sells for 179 dollars The other is a bookshelf speaker It's in fact the smallest speaker that Sonos has ever made that sells for 99 bucks and also the cheapest Sonos you can get Both ship in August you can control the speakers with the Sonos app Just like you would from a speaker that you bought directly from Sonos Eventually IKEA smartphone app is also going to integrate these speakers and their music controls Along with smart bulbs and smart blinds from IKEA. Interestingly, you do not get a smart bulb in the table lamp That's something you'd have to buy separately and add yourself But I know Sarah you and I both use Sonos speakers and and you're excited about this ecosystem What do you think about IKEA? I think this is great. I am a Sonos true and true fan I have been for years now and when you have everything running through an app And there are so many things that you can do with the Sonos System and there are others but my you know by my My ecosystem of speaker choice is Sonos. I I love it The fact that IKEA is able to sell these speakers for what what any Sonos fan would say Well, that's a real discount leads me to believe that the speakers are probably not as good in quality as Something about them being almost as good as a Sonos one However, I have two Sonos ones and they I'm I got rid of like floor to ceiling speakers Because I like the Sonos one so much So these are very good speakers anything that's like a little bit, you know You back off from that is still going to be pretty good I I love the idea of a speaker that's supposed to be also a bookshelf. Um, I Mean, hey, if you know it's not a speaker. That's a bookshelf It's a speaker on a bookshelf that could fit in a bookshelf No, but you can put things on top of it as if it is a shelf Where a shelf No, but I think it is one that you can mount in the wall and then yes, literally put things on top of yeah Okay, you guys are blowing my mind now My first thought was like what what if you put a plant on it? Where they've got like a yeah, they've got like a decorative Ikea piece of glass with sticks in it, which again, which is what I can't is great at IKEA is great at the stuff but My immediate reaction is like be careful electronics. Don't get water on it. Think about what you put on the electronics but but uh, but yeah, I think especially with uh, so many folks living in smaller spaces urban atmospheres, whatever The idea of having something that can be a speaker and a nice one But also function as something else is something that we're going to see more and more and very Ikea for sure. Yeah, absolutely Microsoft released the first build of its edge browser that is built on chromium as with google's chrome canary builds of edge Will come daily and developer builds will come weekly Both builds are available now at microsoft edge insider dot com Those builds are for windows 10 64-bit english language And this is the build focused on fundamentals But it does support signing into your microsoft account or as your active directory and a new tab page with three customization options called focused inspirational and informational you can get extensions from the microsoft store or the chrome website Yeah, this is uh, this is if you're excited about the the chrome Ability of edge. This is your first chance to see it in action. I guess Another good microsoft news microsoft confirmed that windows 10's quick removal feature is the default of the fall update Meaning that you can pull out usb drives without having to eject them first Yes And microsoft released its windows 10 may 2019 update to release preview ring testers You could do this for a while, uh, but microsoft never Confirmed that that was okay. And now they're saying yes Go ahead yank those usb drives out with abandon You know, thank you Is is that the biggest mystery in tech the whole safely removed the thing and I'm like why Assumed because the few times I did it and got an error is because it was constantly trying to To read the drive to be able to read it quickly And now technology has caught up operating systems and devices are cut up that you can read these drives quickly enough without having to maintain a constant connection At least that's my guess anyway Right, but for the most part even on macOS, I would always get the error message when I yank it out without going for the process Doesn't do anything. Yeah, I finished with my actions Feedback at daily technician.com if you ever actually lost data from pulling a drive out I've done it once I think it's because sometimes you've lost data once or corrupted the thumb drive Yeah, and I mean that has to do with closing out the file system on you know, like Updating the table on it and then you can eject like generally wouldn't be an issue you could pull it out because it hasn't written anything but It's it's more of a kind of a housekeeping thing to make sure that you know the ledger is you know all there The table is the table and so when you yank it you're not losing stuff Rocketsons messaging app viber announced viber local number subscription service out of closed beta Which lets you get a local phone number for 4.99 a month That you can then give to non-viber users that they can use to call or text you now Viber subscribers can't send replies from that number either by voice or text So that functionality is planned, but right now you can only receive Viber local numbers available right now in the united states and canada with more markets coming soon I remember when skype first had skype in and not skype out It was it was the case for a short period of time I think if i'm remembering that correctly, but I I guess If all you care about is being able to give a phone number to somebody to get you on viber And you don't care about calling them because you have a phone I I don't know vlad sarah either one of you can you guys Well before the show tom I asked you is this like a feature that you would use and you said yeah With skype actually it is a feature that I used all the time You know sometimes people just don't have the application or are confused or you know You need something to happen fast and giving somebody a phone number makes sense works well doesn't really Matter to them what it looks like on your end So, you know when you think of it that way Yeah, this is a great feature to have I have never used anything like this. Vlad. I don't know about you Well, I think that might be more of an issue for you guys in the states Uh, because when I was there for CES in january, I also came back For the nam show, which is a big audio show in uh, la I had a us sim card for a month and the Two weeks that I was there. I was just bombarded with text messages, you know spam chains and Random robocalls and all of this other stuff And I was like, so this is why people care so much about robocalls and spam calls and everything else This doesn't happen for me. Oh Like over here in your life, you're leading right now, right? So so I am honestly Well, first of all, I just have never used viber. I don't advise anybody to use viber Uh, the only people I know who use viber are my mother's closest friends And I'm desperately trying to get them on to using telegram or something more modern A little more secure. Yeah Yeah But yeah, I can see the utility of that if I want to be in touch with somebody and I don't want them to necessarily have my phone number Uh, if it's going to be like a one-off interaction with somebody. Yeah, it makes sense I don't know that I mean if paying a five dollar a month subscription probably doesn't make that much sense Yeah, that's that's where it starts to hang up for me is is you have to want I I know people in the middle east. In fact, I have a friend in Saudi Arabia who is a big user of viber Um, and and maybe this would be useful for him to give to grandparents or or something who you just don't Use viber would be able to contact him that way. I don't know Interested to hear more about that from people out there in the audience as well I mean, I should I should bring up another point Which is that if you look at all the services that are floating about the moment Uh, netflix, Spotify apple news plus, etc amazon prime It's really easy for you to just stack up a massive build just of subscriptions. Seriously. Yeah, you got to be careful I've got to make sure to cancel my news plus trial subscription before it ends because I really don't need to be paying for that Yeah, let's talk about music. Shall we montero hill aka Lil Nas x which you may have heard of him You may have not but kind of a big deal as of late has a hit song with the old town road and credit Tiktok with at least part of his success. He told time magazine quote I promoted the song as a meme for months until it caught on to tiktok and became way bigger Lil Nas x also has a meme account on twitter and put out some potentially funny lines and the song on purpose Kind of drumming up interest He even uploaded the song to tiktok audio's database so people could use it for free in remixes In fact, Lil Nas x said that he thought maybe he should have been paying tiktok since they promoted the song Don't ever do that Lil Nas, but you know, I get what he's saying That has turned into 65 million streams on his Spotify page Spotify does pay him by the way. So there is some money being made here The verges julia alexander points to ebsu factos dissolve and joji's slow dancing in the dark Which also became trends after tapping into memes like the microwave challenge This this is it fascinates me in two ways one The fact that Knowing memes running a twitter meme account became a source of song lyrics because you want to write a song that will be popular And so yeah The funny lines are to put in that song because everybody else who's playing red dead redemption 2 is going to think these are great as well and then For those that just like to know what the hot thing is even if they're not using it tiktok is becoming a hit maker it feels like Well, it's so strange I mean going back to like the lyrics thing When you think about you know people saying oh that song is just very formulaic that music producer always does the same thing But it's like a you know a catchy thing that works with people and like there's an earworm aspect to it. This is It's the same idea, but on such a Social network Yeah, like you know, you know post millennial level that I don't know lads I don't know how much you keep up on this stuff, but it is fascinating to me First of all the memes are moving way too fast for me to keep up Like it is literally a full-time job. You mentioned Julia Alexander and our team that that's her job is to keep up with that stuff So it's difficult to keep up. It's nice when somebody just like in the case of this song just Condenses all of it into one thing Where it's it's just a meme singularity and then you can just kind of start Peeling away the layers of memeness in it because my understanding is in fact that The music the original music for the song Was sampled from someone else, but it was some dutch kid who did the sampling and remixed it and then little now's ex licensed that from the dutch kid and then like you guys say he collected the lyrics from everywhere and then there was the actual remix of the song with billy billy ray cyrus Yeah, and everybody had like a meltdown Because they kicked him off the country charts and billy ray cyrus is like that's not right The song should be on the country charts. So he went in and said i'll record some lines for you That was that's pretty great too. And and the intense thing is that I do not know a single person who doesn't love that song I include myself in that it's an amazing song Roger listened to it before right before the show and he was like Uh, not my cup of tea, but I'm sure it it it goes with everyone else. Give it a few more listens. I don't hate it If you like baby shark, you're gonna love this all right Wow, okay I have to wrap my head around that one in the meantime folks. Uh, the takeaway here is that tiktok Obviously is is the hip maker. It used to be my space and then it was soundcloud. No, it's tiktok Uh, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines all right, uh blood uh, you reviewed the huawei p 30 and p 30 pro uh last week for the verge and Wanted to share some of your insights with us today. Let's start off I mean Every review I've read including yours talks about how the photography the camera is the thing that differentiates this phone, right? Yes, uh, I should technically can mention my reviews going live tomorrow What you read last week was just me Uh gushing uncontrollably about the camera like I had to write something specifically about the camera Uh, good. Good point. Nice and early. Okay. So this these were your impressions last week and your full review coming out tomorrow Good point. Yes. I I literally just finished it before coming here for the podcast. So I feel really accomplished today All right, so give us some insight. What are we going to hear in this review tomorrow? well It's it's it's wild because huawei has done a whole bunch of things which are just best in class So first of all, it puts zoom into the phone. Uh, it has a five x optical zoom which has a new periscope construction It's really technical As as I say, you can read the review tomorrow and you can get into the details of it But it's really good. It's the best zoom camera. We've had in a phone ever Uh, you can get a so-called hybrid zoom up to 10x Um, which is almost lossless. It's just a little loss of sharpness But I've taken photos at up to 32x and you can actually find this whole twitter thread that I've done with samples from the camera Um, and they're usable usable images at 32 times zoom Which is ridiculous Uh, even even for just a regular camera. That's unconventional and unusual Then you have the night performance, which uh, google's night side was the revolutionary step we had last year and it was A couple of steps ahead of apple and samsung and everybody else and now koala has beaten that by another couple of steps It's it's just it's it's a chasm like I i've been reviewing smartphones for years and years and Usually the differences especially on the camera front because companies are so competitive are really slight And you can say well, it's a matter of preference. It's a matter of taste whatever what do you prefer apple or samsung? Now it's literally the best low-light camera in the world koala p30 pro and it's not even close And that is I mean we talk a lot about and and i'm not going to get into foldables right now But we talk a lot about the form factor and bezels and and differentiators But the camera does tell me if you agree the camera seems to be the place that companies are Making significant innovations and differentiations between their phones Yes, but here's the funny thing If you uh in the us as you guys are and you just look at what's on the store shelves You won't notice that because apple and samsung the two companies selling the most smartphones in the world are strangely Almost complacent about the camera. I really expected samsung over the past two or three years hasn't made Major differences major improvements and I really thought they're saving some something up for the galaxy s10 And it was kind of again incremental Um apple has been redesigning since the iphone x which I refused to call the iphone 10 It had a major physical redesign there it did some slight updates with the Access and Again, nothing's really happening there. But if you look outside, especially from chinese manufacturers, they're improving in leaps and bounds So hawai's periscope camera, uh, oppo demonstrated a prototype of the same technology So they're going to have a smartphone with the same tech by june of this year And knowing that oppo and one plus are basically sister companies We can probably anticipate one plus to have something similar in terms of zoom um, and i'm honestly really shocked because The night performance on hawai's camera Even I can't really explain all of it and it takes so much in terms of ai processing and mathematics and algorithms And that's something that chinese companies hadn't previously shown themselves to be strong at they were strong in hardware But now they're also strong in processing, which is you know, pretty daunting for american companies who seem to be dragging their feet Well, and that that's the question by the way I want to point out to people and flood said this the periscope you you can find out more about the technical aspects of it In his review, but it's not the same as the pop-up if you're thinking The the camera that pops up off the top, uh, like we've seen I think uh from vivo, uh, that's that's not this This is the internals right that are they're working like a periscope but the question is Are the us phone companies being left behind or are they making the choice That camera doesn't differentiate as much as it should and people will continue to buy their phones anyway In other words, is this going to eventually eat away at their at their sales or are they making the right call? Hey, you know, we could spend a lot of time investing on this, but it doesn't seem to move the needle Well, it might not even be eventually it might have happened already because uh in this january you had both samsung and apple reporting Uh slowing sales apple stopped reporting number of iphone sales and you stop reporting numbers when they stop being impressive Right in your financial reports. Uh, in fact samsung very recently reported a massive slash in profits Uh overall for the company I think um I think those those things are starting to affect them already and I think that will increase going forward I think by the end of the year as I say we'll have so many cameras with zoom capabilities in them The rumor okay fair enough. Let's be let's be fair to apple the rumor with apple is that the next iPhone will have a triple Lens camera and it will probably have some sort of similar zoom functionality in it. Um But in general you can make the argument that small differences in image quality might not make the difference They might not push the needle, right? But what huawei has done is really smart because it isn't just improving camera camera performance It's doing it in discrete ways. So it's saying you know that photo which would have been black When you took a with the iphone like a good example that huawei gives is taking a photo of your baby at night Right, you can't use the flash because you wake it up But you still want to be a creepy parent and take a photo of your kid sleeping, right? So and in the shoulder sample with the iphone and it's blackness and the showed one with the samsung galaxy s10 And it's just an outline and then with a huawei p30 pro it looks like the afternoon And it's super impressive. So that's one discrete feature You get nighttime photography and then you get well, you know that far away playing or boats or whatever else Or the statue of liberty that your wide-angle phone can't really do much with or now you have 10x zoom And it actually works So these are discrete features into the camera and they're really easy to sell Like I can give this explanation to my aunt who's still using anokia from 1997 right and she'd be like, okay, I get that Yeah, yeah, she still wouldn't use a smartphone, but she will still understand What the compelling new feature is Well, and you know, you could make a lot of discounts of samsung's profits are going down as much because of a glut in in sensors and ram As it is because of slowing mobile phone sales You can say that the increase in worldwide market share from a lot of the chinese companies Has to do with the the fact that they have less expensive and mid market phones That that are taking some market share that way while while apple and samsung focus more on the top end Certainly in apple's case you can say that you can say that but then the cons of argument is that the p30 pro has outstripped pre-orders for the p20 pro by A really large margin. I can't remember without having the north american market, right Exactly that pre-order with a big chunk of the planet. I mean All they really have is me tweeting about their camera and they're and they're already selling out What else do you need? Well, apparently that's the secret of the success that the carriers need to pay attention to is, you know Get get flawed to be impressed by your by your phone It helps it helps. Yeah, it swings along Well, certainly the secret to our success is everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on others at daily tech news show dot reddit.com If you hang out on facebook go to our group facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Sikani shares a preview of his latest column on this is a good one passenger id issues with transportation network companies Hello, this is sikani, right? I'm with your private driver After a college student in south carolina was murdered by a man pretending to be an uber driver A new safety campaign was launched that encourages everyone to ask What's my name before climbing in the back seat? However, this is actually not the best advice Find out why in the new your private driver column now up on daily tech news show dot com Yeah, sikani has like the three things that you should do To try to make sure that that you're getting in the right car with the right driver and all of that Sort of thing. Uh, it's good advice and sikani is a driver. That's why we have them write these columns Check it out daily tech news show dot com. Let's take a look at the mail bag Let's do it. This one actually came in uh from friday robber had said based on a conversation we were having about high bandwidth satellites Promotions that are happening with various companies. Robert says sign me up I live 25 minutes south of chicago on a clear day. I can see the sears tower So I guess he's pretty close and the best internet that I can get is three megabits per second dsl Which is usually more like 1.5. I just found a wireless isp that can cover me for 90 dollars I assume he means per month for five megabits per second even on five g e I only get four. This isn't the boonies either yearly I call comcast to see if they've gotten close to my house Some days I can see an expedited hotspot show up in settings when looking for wi-fi So it can't be that far away it took four calls and three service tickets to finally get an answer The rep said great news. It says we can offer you internet now. It looked like it would cost um hold on 9300 dollars to extend the wires on the telephone poles to you I countered with $1,000 and signed me up today. They didn't bite So richard robert says in conclusion Yes, please cover me and internet and let me bask in the glory of the elusive beast called a high speed internet Uh, then wilton wrote in and said over the last several years There's been a lot of things said about how much advertisers know about us But I have the opposite problem My normal schedule takes me to mexico about five months a year takes about two or three months before the advertisements switch to spanish The real issue is on my return. It takes about the same amount of time to switch back I'm not using a vpn. So all they need to do is check my ip address I wish they cared enough to check my location Lociento wilton Lociento indeed also gross yes to blad Savov for being with us today blad. It was so nice to have you let folks know where they can keep up with all of your work Well, there's the first.com a website on the internet and twitter.com slash blad savov and we've got your Review of huawei p 30 is coming out on the verge tomorrow. Is that right? And a nice video and everything and you've already got one post. I know about uh podcaster gear. I'm sure there's more to come Yeah, I I am gonna be addicted to it podcasting gear reasons to start a podcast reasons to quit a podcast reasons Why a podcast might not be for you? it's a really fascinating area of investigation Excellent excellent. Check it out folks keep keep an eye on it twitter.com slash blad savov or the verge.com Our goal each month is to get one more patron than last month And you could be that person if you're willing to help us become a dts member and get an ad free rss feed special episodes from myself and sarah and roger Sign up right now at patreon.com slash dts If you've got feedback questions comments or anything you want to get off your chest our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're also live Monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live Back tomorrow with patrick beija talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frog pants dot com Ironman club hopes you have enjoyed this program Oh blad that was fantastic, man. Thank you for doing that with us. So great So did I sound good? Yeah Unless you sound differently then For once it sounded great. I know you told us before we started going live with tell folks which mic you're using right now Okay, so this is the apogee hype mic And it's just a regular usb. They come with free cables in their usb c usba and lightning Um, and it's really designed for portable and mobile use it has a tripod which just collapses to a hand grip So you could literally walk around and walk and talk with it Um, and it's kind of it's kind of hampered my testing because I really like it and now i'm like why bother with anything else You've fallen in love with the first mic you tried But that I mean that says a lot because that is a huge part of the whole process You know if you if you're not sounding good then A lot of the other stuff that you try to make sound good is is for naught. So Yeah, and um, I mean, I noticed you guys using x alarm microphones Um, and I've got some here from road and again, they're really good But it's just the difference in size And weight and the setup time I often recommend to people that they get a sure sm 50 Uh and an xlr adapter because if they're if they want to grow Having that system allows them to swap out mics and get better mics as they they go along But if they're doing a lot of travel like you're saying That isn't the most convenient way to travel Um, so that's that's definitely something you need to consider I think Yeah, I I helped a friend launch a podcast Recently as of last week and you know, she was like your mic sounds better than mine I want your mic and I was like, okay. Well, it's a high lpr 40 Get online But then you're like gonna have to get a preamp and then you're gonna figure out how to put that in your computer And there's a little bit of not that I mean it's not rocket science But there is a learning curve involved and I think you know, a lot of people kind of go like Uh What whatever you're talking about is even though it's it's really just a matter of connecting a few things it it It scares a lot of people off of what would be nice audio otherwise and this is not very portable either And that's the thing I go to all of these events and that's the times when I have all the most interesting things to report Um, there's a time when the verge cast people who never seem to invite me they invite me less often than you guys um Like, okay fine. We'll have land in the podcast um And it's terrible because then I have to make do with like earphone microphones or my laptop or whatever else and And and and then you tell the difference pretty well because you have everybody in the studio with really nice microphones And then as you just kind of Yeah, that's bouncing. I'm calling from Berlin guys. Yeah, this should be It shouldn't sound like I'm coming from south of chicago or whatever So All right DSL is faster than that My sister Five hours south of chicago in southern illinois has better bandwidth than that out in the country. Like I don't know what's going on there Yeah, um, but his story. I mean I've you hear these stories where someone's like hold on this shouldn't be so hard Like why why why am I you know dealing with these slow speeds? But Is he in indiana? Maybe He said he's 25 minutes south of chicago. Yeah, and if you if you go kind of south east as the crew flies But um, I don't know Calumet city, maybe I don't know Well, the thing the thing most of us forget about your country is just how freaking huge it is It's pretty big. Yeah It's big. That's a good point although Because it's just uh, like when I think about europe, um, like my village home village in bogaria um, I can get a fiber 50 meg symmetrical line Which is, you know, really decent um in a freaking village and it's just really Not something I would expect but then bogaria has to take care of just bogaria Right, and then but finland only has to cover finland Whereas the us has to take care of la. Why can't la take care of la? Maybe it wouldn't be great country wide, but yeah I don't know but but the person we just had as an example. He was outside of the city Yeah, he was outside of chicago that the rural areas get And and the other thing is you don't necessarily have somebody that you know You can yell at with those situations whereas in a smaller country you do I mean, yeah, yell at con guys that nothing will change If you can see the tower on clear day, he's not that far. He should be within the infusion No But no, the Vlad you make a funny point. I was actually talking to a friend of mine Who lives on the east coast over the weekend and uh Was visiting california and we were kind of on a hike and I was like I mean the idea that you would go to another state within I don't know an hour of driving is crazy to me because in california We're like we're just like four to five hours from everyone and actually I'm closer to mexico than anybody at this point You know that was the only state you can really get to from this end. Yeah You just get you but but when you're in a smaller state, it's like, I mean, okay There are you know state laws actually make a lot more sense to to like be brushed up on them and how they differ Yeah, instead of living on your little island driving Go into st. Louis, Missouri all the time because that's where my mom was born Yeah, I drove her from new jersey up to uh, sale in massachusetts and I remember Suddenly kind of realizing what everyone meant when they said certain colloquial phrases for different drivers from different states Because you would suddenly see people with certain license plates cut in front of you another one driving Like you literally passed four states in the Yeah, we all said illinois drivers or missouri drivers depending on which state you were from you always called the other one the bad No, no one one plate was very I've told the story before but i'll tell it again because it's one of the most mind-blowing things i've ever done in my entire life Going from penn station to whatever boltamores main train station is whatever it's called I went through five states and two hours five Yeah, because they're kind of new york pennsylvania delaware new jersey and maryland Wow, it was best day of my life And you can't get out and pump gas by yourself in new jersey. You have to have someone pump it for you Oh Like origan like the train station in baltimore is also called pennsylvania station. Is it? Well, I've been there I was I was I was I was losing my mind on the like train like we're in and that we're in our third state everybody and they were like californian Hate you. Yeah, we're just commuting By the way, uh, people have been voting on titles at uh showbot dot chat realm dot net Uh, we did use the term yank in regards to usb and you've had a lot of fun with that We're not going to use any of those titles But they are appreciated I was thinking perhaps tiktok. You don't stop I love that one. That's a good one Uh, do you have an alternate favorite? Ah, okay. Um Roger may be between this one. No. No. No. I just need one. No. No. He was he's trying different titles on good day All right I'm looking i'm looking sarah thinks roger would love tiktok roger disagrees That's kind of long, but I guess for gdi of my word Did I say that? How about I said he might like the song True fact. Yeah, sure. Where's that? There you go. Yeah, I just made it up. Oh, okay True facts about true facts. That's saying no, they're good Dps by accident and people like well, there were never any bulgarian facts in here. What are you doing? Do uh does bulgari have its own like vampire or kind of supernatural? Um, mythologies like stuff like that. No, that was my question. Where was I was like, no door to door sales. Tell him. He's trying to figure out how to answer this question Oh, what do you mean? Is it one of those secrets you can't reveal to outsiders? Yes, non-romania He's like I cannot divulge You guys know, um, you must have watched the joan wick movies Yeah, uh, you know the baba yaga. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Right. Well, we have that in bulgaria and that's um That's the it's kind of Universal tale about Old ugly scary witch lady who steals kids Right, but she lives in a house that's on a giant chicken foot or something, right? Yeah, I mean it depends people kind of freestyle the story But she rides around and order the children. What does she get out of it? Just to be meaning see that's a part of the narrative that's really not resolved sufficiently It's just the child is naughty. She steals it. I guess I guess again, there's a lot of um Creative leeway for grandparents telling that story, right? Yeah, my grandparents told it that she basically Ease the kids, you know, she likes to behave or the witch for motivation for telling the story is to get the kid to behave So the motivations don't really matter. Yeah the details are like stealing fear. I think you don't want the witch to get you It's one of those things where self-preservation takes over your skepticism and you're just like I'm like, what is motivation? What does she want with these kids? Is she hungry? What's happening? I'm finding some continuity errors and some of these I just know that I just know the one with the young girl Who like collects like she has like gets a loaf of bread has a thing of oil And then apple or something. She gets a sesame street a loaf of bread a container of milk and a stick of butter No, no, there's an oil and like the like this whole thing like how she kind of Passes the witches the bobby. I guess like these kind of like traps that she set out In order to get like a yarn a needle or something From her for her mother to say someone's life. I don't I don't remember I read it when I was in grade school. There's lots of different versions. I don't know this one It's pretty cool.  I thought that was cool I didn't think like normally you would just have a building or house and it would be You know like on the ground and then you got this thing that has a chicken leg at the bottom of it Pretty dope It is it is very creative. Yeah. Yeah When scaring children, it's you know, it's a good detail to have when I was that age in grade school I love mythology like I read like all the Arthurian. I read all the Greek Stuff and I was just like totally into it because it was all wacky Vlad, here's a question for you because I'm on a Game of Thrones kick. I'm like binging everything Has there been any Game of Thrones Shooting that happened in Bulgaria because I know they've they've been in the Baltics When you when you say shooting I was actually thinking about violence because How many people has Arya killed in Bulgaria? Like literally or just for acting no, I I think I feel like there has been Yeah, I don't think that has been there's been Um, I want to say there's been plenty around Ireland And Had all of the scenes with King's Landing And every time every time I'm reminded that they shot those in Croatia I'm like, this is so close. Why have I not gone on holiday there? You know, just just to like take a walk around the place. The other thing is that Croatians are again culturally very similar to us Bulgarians There's overlapping language and so on so I'm confident that going there would be a blast and it's just not finding the time to go and like explore those things So I love that actually I really love also the Lord of the Rings movies And I think they've aged really well. I never appreciated them as much when they actually happened But now that I look back And now to have had to hobbit movies to show us how you can mishandle that material, right? Um, but a lot of rings movies when they go out, you know to ride and have battles and everything else Is such an advert for New Zealand? Yeah, yeah, okay, like I just want to go to that part of New Zealand just kind of Well, and people go there to like, you know, let's see it It's it's real To New Zealand right before return of the king came out So we had seen two movies and we were just driving around we're like, we're in middle earth Like this that's what it looks like. It was crazy. Yeah, I when my flight to Australia was Stopped over in Auckland.  What's great is at the time New Zealand wasn't as widely exposed So when you watch the movie none of the landscapes felt familiar like oh, I saw that in another movie or anything like that So it really it was really awesome. Yeah Well video folks, we're going to shut down the the video stream. Uh, thanks for watching audio folks However, stick around there is more to come. Oh Gary and pizza


So hey, everyone, my name is Alejandro. Today, we'll be talking about the past, present, and future of JavaScript engines. You can find me on social media by A0bieto. And before we continue, I do apologize if we go too fast over these decades or the past. It's a lot of content to get through all of the slides. But feel free to reach out, send me questions, or find me right after the talk, and we can dig in whatever question you might have. We will start by the year 1958, 1958, with one of the year lists published just in time compilers that was attributed to Lisp, the programming language Lisp. And in the year or in the decade 1960s, there weren't many virtual machines around. And a note in that by virtual machines, in this talk, I will refer to the type of virtual machines that translate from one instruction set to another instruction set. There are other types of virtual machines that virtualizes operating systems and hardware. We won't cover those virtual machines today. So one of the benefits of introducing virtual machines around this time is that you could have some of your code of your implementation to stay the same. Say in this case, the transformation from code to an intermediate representation will stay the same for different CPU architectures. And remember that around this time, there was not a monopoly or a CPU architecture that was predominant over others. There were a couple CPU architectures lying around. And you would have to actually write your own compiler for a programming language for all of those CPU architectures. So this type of virtual machines allowed you to just write the transformation for intermediate representation to machine code on a case-to-case basis. In the 70s, Pascal was invented, which was an imperative programming language. And it started to gain some attention as well. This, an overly simplistic diagram, is how a virtual machine would look like at that time. And it wasn't conceived that virtual machines could be as fast as other compiled programming languages, like C. In this decade also, Smolta was created, a language designed specifically for educational purposes. And it was authored by Alan Kay. Smolta code was also executed in a virtual machine. And it is an object-oriented programming language. Its BM was a subject of a view enhancement over time, like just in time compilation later in the 80s. Other important things happening during the 80s was the programming language South, which was created in the year 86 by David Unger and Brandon Smith, who then later pioneered some of the concepts that we will see into the virtual machines space. Two key concepts were born with self on one side, adaptive optimization, and on the other side, generational garbage collection. These two concepts transcend itself and were later applied to the JBM. And are present in all major browsers we have today with some differences. By this time, I started what we will call the first wave of adaptive optimization. And this first wave, there was a profiler involved that marked some of the functions to be sent to a just-in-time compiler. In this example on the left, say, you are executing a function 1,000 times, then the profiler could identify that function as a target for optimization or to be run through a compiler. In the 90s, there were other improvements over existing run times, like small talk and self, small talk being actually implemented in production systems. But the most iconic advance, from my perspective, were the invention of these programming languages. Python, being quite older, it was born in the 90s, while both Java and JavaScript were created in the year 95. By that time, it was not called JavaScript, which is kind of weird. The increase on this innovation was not just a coincidence. Personal computers, which previously were way, way expensive, started to become more affordable by this time. From this graph, we can see that the slope starts to get pronounced around the 90s and goes all the way up like that to 2005 or 2010. During this period, it began the second wave of adaptive optimization, which was adding multiple levels to what we had previously saw before by having multiple just-in-time compilers. Say on the previous case, with a simple just-in-time compiler being applied for a function running maybe 1,000 times. And the other optimizing compiler for functions that would go over 50,000, 100,000 times. In the 2000s, we saw the web first big steps. Multiple browsers were released like Firefox in the 2002. And Opera changed into a free-to-use approach. And I actually remember I used it in Opera. It was a nice browser, like fast JavaScript execution, fast tab startup as well. Who else here remember using Opera? OK, wasn't that bad. So the web pushed JavaScript engines by that time. You could do all sorts of things now on the web, like log into chat rooms and talk with hundreds of people simultaneously. You could browse your emails. You can navigate through maps on your browser as well. For those that are looking at me like, what are you talking about, mate? That's not something new. Trust me, it is new. It started around this time. It is fairly to say, by that time, JavaScript engines were not catching up with other virtual machines like the JVM or Java virtual machine. If you remember the graph of personal computer's growth, these was growing rapidly. But at the beginning of the decade, we started with this percentage of a world's population with access to the internet. It was still very low, 5%. Now we will go through a couple of diagrams on how JavaScript engines would look like around that time. JavaScript core being the engine for Safari. And again, in this overly simplistic engine, we see an interpreter which will take the JavaScript and will run that JavaScript with node code being generated whatsoever at that time. Also no optimization either. For SpiderMonkey, around that time, they also had an interpreter. But they would also have an optimizing compiler that would target these hot paths we were talking about if a function was being executed too many times. And B8 at the beginning, it was created around 2008. I think Chrome later was released later. But it didn't have an interpreter initially. It had two compilers. One for compiling the JavaScript core as fast as possible right away and an optimizing compiler that would compile these functions that we're executing too many times. By this time, we're also stepping into what is called the third wave of adaptive optimizations, where BMs would profile the current execution not only to identify which paths are hot and optimize them, but also to know how to optimize. In other textbooks, these is called online feedback directed optimization. These strategies that we're talking now were later first implemented in Hotspot, JVM, and would then later be implemented in JavaScript engines. From all the periods that we will see today, this in a way is the easier of them all to describe, because we all been through that decade. But at the same time, the amount of things happening during this decade, it is so high that it's very hard to keep track of them. If you remember the graph of personal computers, around 2010 is where it starts to stagnate. But we still see an increase on internet users. Actually, in 10 years, it grew from 5% to 28%. Outgrowing, I believe, every projections that people had around that time. The number of websites, it also grew from less than 200 millions to almost 800 millions or more in the year 2014 or 2015. What we are seeing here is a graph that aggregates smartphones by the amount of memory. And it's dated for the year 2017. Dark gray bars represent devices with 1 gigabyte of memory. Following, there's a yellow bar with devices that have 2 gigabytes. And the light gray is devices with 3 gigabytes of memory. I'm not sure if you can reach out to see the labels below in the graph. But developing countries like Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Nigeria, South Africa have devices with just 1 gigabyte first. In the rest of the countries listed here at least, we see devices with 2 gigabytes run first. But by a great distance compared with a number of devices with 3 gigabytes of memory or more. Now, if we dig a little deeper into some of the trade-offs that Justin Time compilers had to deal with, we will find that as we apply more optimizations, the code generated starts to grow. And internal representations start to get more complicated. You need to keep track of more things happening, either if you in line, if you take something outside from a loop, whatever optimization you do, it often results in memory usage increase. The second trade-off that compilers have to deal with is the latency introduced in execution time. The best optimizations available will introduce a higher latency compared to not applying any optimizations at all. On this scale, on the extreme left, we will find interpreters, because those will not require any generation of code and would only require the parsing of the code you have for them to start up. If we go through engines during this time or during this decade, we will see a couple of changes and improvements over them. As for the monkey being the engine for Firefox, went through a couple of changes in just six or seven years. They moved from one compiler to two compilers, and then later on they changed the optimizing one. In this case, IonMonkey, which is the layout they are using today. And the interesting thing about SpiderMonkey, bailouts or the optimizations would go up to the baseline, just-in-time compiler, instead of going all the way back to the interpreter. For ChakraCore, the X Microsoft Edge engine is kind of more difficult to describe over time because they open sourced this virtual machine just on 2016. But by that time, they had an interpreter and two compilers, one for simple optimizations and one that offer the complex optimizations. But what can I assume that they also had their share of experimentations before deciding for these final architecture that we see here? JavaScript Core is one of the engines that changed as well during this time. But they didn't change it drastically. They introduced the second compiler around 2009, 2010, which is DFG or stands for Dataflow Graph just-in-time compiler. They also have a simple just-in-time compiler, an interpreter, and they switch to having three compilers instead of one by 2016. FTL called Faster Than Light with the type inference and type specializing compiler. So all the best optimizations being targeted by that new compiler. In the case of V8, it's one of the most interesting cases because in my perspective, it suffered from the most radical changes over time. By 2016, we see that they still hadn't added an interpreter and they would still have a parser that would output an abstract syntax tree and would compile that as fast as possible. For the optimizing compiler that was a cranshaft. And for the optimizations, the code would go back to the baseline just-in-time compiler. If we would graph those two in the scale that we had before, cranshaft will be closer to the right. And the baseline compiler would be to the left, but not to the extreme left. Because compiling code will still have some latency. We still have some overhead for starting up. By 2017, V8 had switched completely to this new architecture. Of course, they didn't just drone a switch from overnight. They introduced some changes progressively. They did all their testing that they needed to. And once they felt very confident with this new architecture, they changed from having two compilers to having one interpreter in this diagram called ignition and turbofan, which is replacing what previously was cranshaft. It would be closer to the right if we would graph that on a scale. And comparing with the previous one now, the interpreter in ignition would stand further to the left. It would have less startup time for JavaScript to run.  But nowadays, if we will go through all nature browsers, we would be able to say that V8 and SpiderMonkey use a precise strategy. So they count exactly or they know exactly how many allocations they did during the execution. When JavaScript core and ChakraCore do a conservative approach, which is looking at memory positions and saying how confident they think it would need to be collected or not. But they all use a generational strategy, the one that was introduced by self in the 80s. This extensive gain in users and market penetrations in multiple devices also came with a whole set of new problems. JavaScript and JavaScript engines started to become a target for vulnerabilities that would allow attackers to get or extract data or to gain code execution on multiple devices. Previous photo was from actually a TV. For this year alone, there were granted bounties for 60,000 US dollars for an integer overflow vulnerability on Amazon Echo, another one around 20,000 US dollars for another integer overflow in a TV that would allow attackers to get a reverse shell. And that's just this year in this event. I know Ponto had also an event in Vancouver, and they released other bounties as well. So for what's next, a few caveats before we move on. These are all my observations. And have in mind that I'm not a subject matter expert on this field. I don't work on a daily basis on JavaScript engines. My goal is to share with you all the point of view for a developer on how things could look like in the future. Just-in-time compilers will keep getting better, but I don't see them overcoming the constraints that we talked before on memory specifically. Because of how we write software, we are drawn into making short-lived allocations, which is one of the fundamental pillars for a generational garbage collection, the strategy that all JavaScript engines are using today. Interpreters on the other side, as a tool with the lowest latency that we have found or that we have discussed today, will continue to have its place as long as we don't find something faster for startup times. One of the things that I certainly hope to see more, and I do believe we are on the right track for getting there, is better collaboration between vendors working on JavaScript engines with other parts of the web ecosystem, like tooling projects. This year there was a blog post written by the DBA team on how JSON.parts could be between 10 to 50 percentage faster than parsing just a straight object little. And it is not something the DBA team was encouraging us developers to go and change on our repositories, but rather full tools like Webpack to include that in their logic for bundling. And it's also interesting because this is not crime-specific. It would yield performance improvements on other browsers like Firefox or Safari. We have also seen innovation happening on the field of JavaScript engines with various specific goals, like the Hermes engine, the sign for React native applications, or Jury's creep and duct tape. It first started happening with them with very low resources specific JavaScript engines. And I believe it could be a good approach or at least an interesting one to see with Node. An option for Node could be having different set of flags or configuration values to let the engine know it is running on a long lifespan context. I do know there are flags to, say, modify the limits of memory for V8, but that doesn't actually change how the engine manages memory internally. This start is for the last June. And we can see that many of the efforts that have been in play rendered an enormous effect on helping people to utilize research online. And I consider that a win-win. If, as we keep this number going high, services and companies will be able to sell to more people and people will be able to reach out to more resources, knowledge, and other services online as well. I hope this rundown helped to get an idea on some of the decisions that were happening during all these decades. I hope that covered some of the fundamental concepts to get where we are today. If you want to go and see the slides or the resources that I use for this talk, you can find them all in this link. If you have any follow-up questions, you can reach out to me online or in the hallway. That's it, thank you for your time.


Hey there friends, how's it going? My name is Kevin and today we're playing Five Nights at Freddy's and it's actually my first night at Freddy's. I have never played any of these games before, despite being asked to numerous times. And you know what? I thought now was the time. I'm only six years too late. Sorry, Scott. But I literally know nothing about them.  Modern cameras ensure safety of equipment and animatronic characters $120 a week.  Okay, here we go.  Uh, I wanted to record a message for you to help you get settled in on your first night.  I know it could be a bit overwhelming.  Oh my god. I didn't like that. Okay, you can get rid of the screen. I see. I feel like locking the doors is a good idea.  Are you sure?  Wait, that was completely closed the second in Pirate Cove. Oh, I don't like this already. My hands are sweating and nothing has happened. I'm just anxious. They wonder how do they wonder? Why do you allow them to do this? Why are their faces so terrifying? No child wants this. They'll most likely see you as a metal endoskeleton without its costume on. Oh no. Since that's against the rules here at Freddy Fazbear's Pizza, they'll probably try to forcefully stuff you inside of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza. Why would you program them like this? Why would you do that? Uh, check those cameras and remember to close the doors only if absolutely necessary. What? Gotta conserve power.   Okay, open the door. Open the door. I didn't know. Why are you telling me now?  Why is there lights here? Oh, no. The power's only 28% left. I didn't know.  Dude, my hands are sweating and nothing is happening. I really don't need you coming up in the camera like that. One of them is on the move. Why is he looking into the camera like that? No, no, no, no. Go back into it. I'm in my safe space when I'm looking at the cameras. Kind of. I don't know. Oh, Jesus Christ. He's in the West Hall. That's really close to me. Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. Put it down. Put it down. Close the door.  I've only got 90% power.  My hands are moist. Leave me alone. Honestly, you could interfere with your circuits is something you're best staying away. Where are the others? Okay, there's only one left back there. I really need, like, someone from Modern Warfare 2 to just run in the door and go, EMP, get down! Wait, it's going staticky. Shit. What is that? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Oh God, I'm out of power.   That music doesn't sound like I'm okay. Wait, what? Did I lose? I don't know what's going on. Can I restart? Oh my God, Jesus Christ Almighty. Oh my God, my ears.  I got to have my megaphone on hand. So I can shout back at them. Oh my God, that scared me. As a person who has never played this game and has never watched any videos on this game, that, yeah, that took a lot out of me. How do I win? All right, new game. It's time I'm starting sweaty. At least I'm starting as I intend to continue. I wonder if my mouse will break by moisture damage. It reminds me of when I worked retail and we used to buy second-hand electronics. This guy came in selling his smartphone and unprompted told us that he wanted to sell the smartphone because he had a problem with online escorts and he didn't want any internet on his phone. And then while I'm testing the phone, I open it up and the moisture indicator was tripped and I was just like, this is kind of disgusting. It didn't help that he was like visibly dripping and sweat and it was not warm. I don't know why my power is running out. Like I'm not doing anything. The usage is as low as possible. Usage goes up to two when I have that open. So I guess I should try and just stay here. Who drew these? Why would I hang them up? They're awful. Even if my kid drew this from me, I'd be like, son, I love you.  I just throw it into the shredder. Okay, I wonder what time I have to get to. It's 1 a.m. now. Night one. You're all still there. So if they're all there, I'm just going to chill out and be moist. Anyone want a handshake? Not still good. Put that down. All right. Night one is going swimmingly. Honestly, even just the thought of just sitting here, even if they didn't come to life, that would be horrifying. I would hate that job. Just sitting there doing nothing. Imagine that as your job. Yeah, that would be awful. Still good. No one. All right. Continue to sit. Okay. I don't like that. Does that mean they're coming to life? No. They're good. They're fine. They're not fine. And they're not good, actually. They look like they're a poster. They're anything but good. They're still not on the move. I'm loving this. This is great. I love my job. Can I turn off the fan? Is that using power? What kind of building is this? We're like, our power has a finite amount just for the night. Okay. The blue guy's on the move. Do they have names? I'm going to look up, do they have names? Chica, Bonnie and Freddy. Chica is the chicken one. Bonnie is the one who's out to get me in the dining area. Like, I don't understand this game at all. Because again, I've not looked into it at all. I wanted to jump into it without knowing. I thought it'd be more fun. I may have been wrong. But I'm guessing I just need to keep enough power to stay alive, essentially. So I'm trying not to check the cameras.  I'm going to try and make it through the night. Okay, he's moved. He's moved.  Who are you? Oh, for feck's sake. There's two of them on the way. There's two of them on the way. Oh, God. Okay, he's still hanging out in Pirate Cove. I don't blame him. I would hang out in Pirate Cove, like, all the time. Oh, God, he's there. Oh, Jesus. I don't know if I should use that light or not. He's coming this way. So, like, my guess is just to turn on the light and then shut the door if he's there. I don't really want to be turning on the light, though. Like, I kind of like not knowing, but I don't at the same time because it's making me really moist.  Where did he go? Where did he go? Where is he? I've lost him. I've feckin' lost him. I can't really see on that camera. Oh, Jesus Christ! How did you get in? I was looking at the feckin' cameras. Oh, my God. It keeps catching me off guard. I just heard my guy going, Uh. It's like, what is that? Alright, let's try this again.  There's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to worry about. Yeah, there's nothing. Everything's grand. What is that? I hear someone singing, and I can't resist but sing along. Dum-dum-dum-dum.  Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum. I can kinda agree with that. Alright, my plan. As soon as someone leaves, alright, which is probably gonna be Bonnie, I think their name is, the blue one. You know the blue one there and the post or that one? As soon as he leaves his perch, I'm gonna feckin' close the door, and I'm gonna hope it doesn't use too much power because he always comes from the left side. So far, anyway, so... That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna lock that door, and I'm just gonna sit here. That's all I'm gonna do. Oh, God, no, the chicken's on the move this time. Ah, for feck's sake. Ah, feck off, chica! Alright, feck it. I'm sticking to my strategy. Left door stays closed. He's going the same side so far, so I'm hoping that'll get the job done. And I'm just gonna sit here. Doing nothing. Ah, you're lucky I edit these parts out. You don't have to sit here with me. That's the ultimate curse. I can hear someone making noises, but I'm gonna assume they're just doing the dishes. Okay, 47% power. Usage is at 2, and it's 4 AM. I'm really hoping we have enough power to make it through the night. No. No, um, occupado! It might be a while. Please don't come in.  No, no, no, no. It's not time. It's not time. What does that mean? No, I'm playing possum. I'm just lying there on the floor in the field position. Dead. 6 AM is morning, right? Yes. Oh, thank god. Now it's probably gonna get more stressful, isn't it? Oh, yay, yes. The kids are here. That's real terror. Oh, for fuck's sake. I've gotta go through that again. Well, if you're hearing this and you made it to day two, congrats. Thanks. It might be a good idea to peek at those cameras while I talk. Okay. Just make sure everyone's in their proper place. I don't think they are. Oh, my god. They're already moving. Where's he gone? Why have I lost all my cameras? There are blind spots in my camera view. Oh, no. Feck off. I'm closing that door. He's already nearly here.  Not that he would be in any danger, of course. I'm not gonna find that. What? Dude, you can stop with this charade. I've already been here one night. I know this is suicide for $120 a week.   And then they'll just hire someone else. Okay. Only Freddie is left. Oh, for feck's sake. Who are you? Are you Chica? Uh, uh, what do I do? Do I just do the same strategy? Is that gonna work?  I don't think it's gonna work. Do I look at the camera or not? I honestly have no idea what to do. I think I'm gonna roll with the same strategy again. Just sit here with one door closed. Nice and moist. I heard footsteps. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm so tempted to close both doors, but I know it's probably suicide. Alright, here's my plan. I wait with my megaphone, so they know if they come close, I'm gonna scream. And then someone's gonna come help me. With his hyperventilating.  I was about to say at least they're polite, but that just took off 6% of my power when he knocked.  Oh, Jesus Christ. My hands are so moist. Yeah, megaphone was about to slip and slide straight out of him. Alright, that strategy doesn't work for the second night, I guess. Let's try it once more. Okay, good. I don't have to repeat night one at least. At least there's that.  Alright, I think stage one of my plan. Go to the bathroom. And hope I'm still alive when I come back. That about worked out as expected. I have a feeling like if I play one of these games again, I'm gonna have to Google a bit about the characters and how they behave, because I'm very confused and I don't know how to react to them. I have a proposal for this place. So if they only do this at night, like in the day they're not stuffing children inside these machines, then maybe we should make it like a casino, tint all the windows, put on a certain amount of light, and it stays like that all the time. Then they won't know which is day and which is night. So either they leave me alone or they go on a murderous rampage 24 hours a day. Either way, I'm happy. I've made a difference. Why is it kind of like blurry here? Is it just my vision? Has it gone blurry in the desk? I don't have a clue. I really don't. Okay, he's coming for me through this one. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, lights off, lights off. That's fine. He'll be fine out there. He's just popping in to see if I was all right, see if I need anything. I'm afraid to check the cameras. The last time I checked the camera, when this weird cheeky thing was after me, it killed me, and I'm worried it has something to do with the cameras. Or was it Freddie that did that? I don't know. No, because he said Freddie doesn't really move, and he didn't appear to either. No, leave me alone. Stop zapping my power. It didn't take it that time for some reason. Did it take it earlier? I'm pretty sure it did. I don't know. I don't trust my eyes right now. Like, even in the children's interpretation here of Freddie, he looks fecking terrifying. Why do they like him? He's still fine over on that door, kind of afraid of interacting with anything. I think I've enough power to get to the end of the night, and if that left door stays closed, I might have a chance. I just got to go about two more hours, and I've got 35%. So that sinks up perfectly. If I don't use any more power, right? Wait, no, because I didn't use two bars of power through the whole night. I was using one bar of power through some of the night. So that doesn't necessarily mean 33% of power will equate to one third of the night, but you know what, feck it, I'm sitting here, and that's it. My stubbornness will prevail. No, he did take my power. It's down to 20%. Okay, my stubbornness might not win out on this one. Turns out when you get faced with killer robots, you can't just go, I'm stubborn and end up living. Like, I'm wondering, as I run out of power, should I open that door and hope he's left? Or should I close the other one? Will that lock me in here for the night? Don't even understand the situation. Like, we have low power for keeping the doors closed. Like, if it runs out of power, your door's open? I don't understand. Oh, this is gonna cut it close. Like, it's... It's 5 a.m. We just need to make it to 6. I don't know how long the...  All right. Time to just accept my faith. I'm hoping we can make it to 6 a.m., but I don't know if this is a death sentence or not when the power goes off like this. What? No, no, no. Okay. Well, this is terribly concerning. Is there anything I can do? I don't think so. I'm just gonna keep making eye contact.  Well, fantastic. This is gonna be great! Jesus Christ.  All right. Well, I did not make it past night 2 and we're gonna end there. If you guys wanna see more, though, let me know and if you think it's better, I will look up about the animatronics. Like, I might move on to a different game or I might try and finish this one if you're interested. Let me know what you wanna see. Do you wanna see me try and figure it out or will I Google a little bit? Cause I feel like if I knew a bit about how the characters behaved, might be able to do a bit better. But yeah, we're gonna leave it there. I hope you enjoyed me being terrified. I really appreciate you watching, as always, and I do hope to see you next time. I just hope I don't see them, but I'm gonna leave it there. Thanks for watching, folks. Bye for now.


So when you're first getting into FPV freestyle, there's a lot to think about in terms of what parts and gear are you going to buy? Like what frame should you build with? What KV motors do you want to run? Do you want to build around a 6S battery or 4S battery? But one thing that you definitely don't want to overlook is your FPV goggles.  That's what actually connects you to your aircraft and enables you to do first-person view, actually view through the aircraft. This is what you're seeing with, this is what's actually in contact with your face, and it's really going to define how good your FPV experience is going to be. Now a lot has changed in the world of FPV goggles, right? For a long time, we were just on analog video systems, right? So we were just broadcasting out an analog video signal on the 5.8 band and picking it up on a receiver and just looking at ultimately a really staticky, not-so-good-looking image. But now we've got digital HD FPV, and that's awesome, but oh, there's some latency and kind of some issues around it being proprietary and you can't use certain things with certain things. It can be very overwhelming, and it can also be very expensive. I mean, some of these goggles setups get well over $600, and you just end up wondering, is it worth it? Hey guys, welcome to Rotorat. I'm Ligirev, and today I'm going to be walking you through five FPV goggles that you should consider when you're getting into FPV, or even if you've been into FPV for a little while, maybe want to change things up. Whatever your case is, these are the five goggles that we recommend. These are certainly not the only five FPV goggles available, and if you want to shop elsewhere, go for it. But these are the five goggles that we carry in our store, and if we carry it in our store, that means we believe that we can support it, stand behind it, and ensure that you have a good FPV experience. Now as we go through these goggles, I'm not going to be getting into every single technical spec, but moreover, I want to give a high-level overview of what makes the biggest difference between these goggles and what you should be thinking about when you're shopping for one of them, and also a little bit of my personal opinion of all these different options, which you can take or leave. So to start going through these goggles, let's start with the most budget-friendly options.  Now these are very affordable box goggles, and what that means is they're going to be a little bit larger than some of these other options that we'll get to, and they have a single screen in them with a very simple optic to enable you to focus on that screen, right? You can imagine if you actually just held a screen like this close in front of your face, your eyes would have a very hard time focusing on it. So there's a simple optic in these goggles to kind of bring that screen into focus and magnify it a bit. Keeping things simple like that keeps the cost down. If budget is very high on your priority list, then it doesn't get any cheaper than the Fat Shark Recon. It comes in at $89. It's going to be the cheapest option that we're showing here today, and this is truly a Fair Bones option. There's a single analog video receiver in here, so you just get one place that you can screw on on antenna, runs on an 18650. This is about as simple as it gets, and if truly budget is your number one concern when getting into this, it doesn't get much cheaper than this for something that's actually going to work and will actually be supported by a good company like Fat Shark. So if you really got to keep it as cheap as possible, you can scoop up these goggles for $89 new, get a micro drone for cheap, rip it around and have a great time. One step up from there, we've got the Fat Shark Scout. So again, it's still a box goggle, still just got that single display with a simple optic, but these goggles have a little bit more baked into them. It's actually a diversity goggle. You still only have one place to screw in an antenna up top, but there's also a patch antenna built into the goggles that's along the front of the goggles, not a patch antenna. It's directional. So you can take advantage of having a diversity receiver where the goggle chooses the strongest available signal by having an omni-directional antenna and a patch antenna. And what you would do is when you fly, point your patch antenna, the place where you're going to be flying the furthest or behind the most obstacles. And that's where you'll get the high gain performance out of that antenna where you needed the most. But as you fly other areas, maybe just around some trees or whatever, the omni-directional can pick it up because you'll be flying outside of the range where the patch antenna is strongest. So both the Scout and the Recon are excellent entry-level goggles, but I will say if you can afford the price difference to get the Scout, I do think it's worth it because you get much improved RF performance by having that patch antenna and you're going to be able to fly in more serious environments with more obstacles and obstructions. The Recon is going to be really good for flying a micro drone around your house, but if you actually want to use one of these to fly a larger drone in a real freestyle environment, this is going to be worth having. Now one downside to both of these goggles is they're limited to analog only. If you're convinced you're only going to be flying analog, that's great. But if you're interested in doing digital, you're going to need to get one of these three goggles. Two of these goggles are made by Fat Shark, the Attitude V6, and the HD02.  It is the DJI V2 FPV goggle. Let's start with the two Fat Shark goggles. The Attitude V6 is a new offering from Fat Shark, kind of a mid-tier option that it's a bit less expensive than the HD02, which we will get to, but it's still compatible with Fat Shark's HD System Sharkbyte. So when you get the Attitude V6 goggle, you get analog receivers built in. It's actually a diversity receiver. You get two patch antennas in the box, so you can pull these goggles out of the box and fly them with your analog drones. And the comfort of these goggles and the HD02s are, they're just, it's the best. And Fat Shark has really taken both these goggles to the next level with how much you can adjust the optics, right? So you can both adjust the IPD, which is the spacing between the screens and the focus of the screens individually. Now you notice I'm saying screens, not screens. So these box goggles that had one singular screen, these goggles have two small micro displays and very complex optics in front of those micro displays, so that these, I'm serious, these screens are like teeny, like smaller than a postage stamp. And they've got some pretty crazy optics in here that enlarge and focus these displays.  Using such small screens allows these goggles to be significantly smaller than the box goggles. So I mean, these just kind of look cooler. And I think that having this small, slim goggle is kind of, kind of part of the look of FPV, right? When you got them up on your forehead, you just kind of, you just kind of look the part. And I think a lot of people feel like when they've got the box goggle on, they just don't quite look the part. I would tell you, don't worry about that. Get what works best for you. And honestly, some people say they actually prefer using the box goggles. Don't really like these micro display goggles. They say they have a hard time focusing on the screen. It kind of gives them a headache. That has never been an issue for me, especially on these newer goggles that give you so much control over the screen spacing and individual focus. But some people say even on these newer ones, no matter what they try, the optics of these micro displays, it upsets their vision and gives them a headache. Now, one problem with the box goggles is, like I said, they're not going to be compatible with any digital HD systems. Both of these goggles are. So even the mid-level Attitude V6 has an HDMI port in the bottom and the connection points up top to attach Fat Shark's Sharkbyte HD system. So I think this is just such a great option because for 350 bucks, you get something that works out of the box with analog drones, and you can upgrade it to have HD FPV. But if you really want the most premium Fat Shark FPV experience, that's going to be the HD02. Now, this is a $500 goggle, but it's not just the $150 difference between these two that you need to consider. You also need to consider what this goggle doesn't come with. What I'm holding here is what you get, and you'll notice you're not seeing any points to screw on antennas, and that's because this goggle does not come with any form of receiver. You need to buy a receiver to put into the analog bay here, or a Sharkbyte receiver, which again will attach to the front and plug into the HDMI port on the bottom. So why is a goggle more expensive that comes with less? The biggest reason for the difference in price between these two goggles are that the HD02 have OLED displays. The micro displays in these goggles are organic LED, and what that means is essentially every pixel on the display is an LED itself. The biggest thing I see with OLED displays are the blacks, and the the darks of the video are are darker. You don't get that washed out effect in the dark areas that some of the other goggles get because they are backlit displays. Now these goggles, the box goggles, and most other FPV goggles use an LCD display. That's kind of a backlit liquid crystal display. These goggles, the Attitude V6, use a type of display I've never heard of. It's called LCOS. That stands for liquid crystal on silicon. I do think you get a better image quality out of this LCOS display than the LCD displays that we've been used to fly, but ultimately the OLED display, it's the best. Now is the image quality that much better that it's worth not only the price difference, but not getting any sort of receiver, not essentially being able to use this goggle out of the box. That's up to you. Hopefully you got some friends that you could maybe try both of them if some of your friends have both, but I guess all I can say is the image in these goggles is the best image of the goggles on the table. And if that's what you want, it's worth the price. But to use them, you're going to have to buy either an analog video receiver or Sharkbite. And we'll get to all that in a little bit. Now the last goggle that we have on the table is the V2 DJI FPV goggle. Now you'll notice this goggle is pretty big. And it's actually kind of a hybrid between box goggles and micro display goggles. This goggle does have two individual displays, but they're not really micro displays, they're not really that like ultra teeny tiny display. They're a little bit larger displays, but there's one for each eye and there's optics for each eye. Just simple adjustment of IPD, the distance between the screens. A minus of that is these goggles maybe don't have the same cool look as the Attitude or the HDOs. They're a little bit bigger, so you get some of that box goggle effect bouncing on your head. But going back to some of those pilots that I mentioned that have trouble focusing on these micro display goggles, they don't have any trouble with the DJI. So I think that's why DJI went with this type of design instead of a micro display goggle because they didn't want to put out a product that couldn't be used by those people that have a hard time focusing on those goggles. There's no focus adjustment of these screens, but another thing that comes with the large form factor of these goggles is you can fit glasses under these goggles. I will say the same is true for the FatShark box goggles. You can put your glasses under them. When it comes to these newer micro display goggles, you don't need to do that. You can actually adjust the focus of them. Now I have a horrible prescription. I'm like negative 6.5. And I think these goggles say they can only, they're only specced to compensate for up to negative 6. So I'm outside of the range that these goggles are supposed to be able to provide for. But when I'm not wearing my glasses or my contacts, I'm still able to get really good focus with these goggles. And that's something that I really like not having to wear my contacts or my glasses because I can't handle having glasses under box goggles. I've tried it with the DJI, I've tried it with the box goggles, having glasses under the goggles drives me crazy. For some people, it's no problem. That's how cricket flies. Cricket flies with his glasses just under his DJI goggles. So works for some, but it's always driven me crazy. But I think what influenced DJI's decision to go with a non-micro display goggle even more so was to keep costs down from everything. What do you mean keep costs down? This is the most expensive goggle on the table. This is a $580 goggle. What are you paying for with this goggle? These aren't micro OLED displays. These are big LCD displays. This is a big chunky goggle. Why is this goggle so expensive? Well, that's because this goggle is made to work with the DJI digital FPV system. In terms of FPV performance, that the quality of the video that's transmitted to your goggles, I'll just say it's the best. Shark bite HD video is quite good. But when it comes to getting the best video signal to your eyes, it's going to be the DJI goggles. So now for some that might make the decision easy, but there are other things that you need to think about. This only works with DJI FPV. These fat shark options that can receive analog can work with any analog video transmitter. Analog is pretty universal. So it doesn't matter if your video transmitter is made by TBS or immersion or rush or whatever. Analog is pretty much analog and you can use these goggles with any analog system. But what about the shark bite? Fatsharks HD, is that proprietary like the DJI? Kind of, but not exactly. Shark bite is kind of similar to analog in that it is just broadcasting out. Shark bites whole ethos is to be more compatible. While Fatshark is currently the only company that makes a shark bite transmitter, that transmitter actually can receive video from a variety of different cameras made by a variety of different companies. Foxeer, Runcam and other companies make cameras that connect to the shark bite transmitter. Additionally, the shark bite receiver can plug into anything that accepts HDMI. So these goggles just have an HDMI input and that's the only way that shark bite really connects to it. But you can plug that shark bite receiver into any goggle that has an HDMI input or any display really. We did an episode where we set up a computer monitor and plugged in a shark bite display. The shark bite is certainly more open than DJI, which is very close. When you're using DJI, you can only use a DJI transmitter. You can only use a DJI camera. You can only use a DJI goggle. There's a couple exceptions. I mean Caddx makes the Vista, but they worked with DJI on that. Really DJI wants you to use all of their gear. It's very difficult to get the DJI video signal anywhere but these goggles and that's that's probably the biggest drawback with the V1 goggles. The only way to get video elsewhere than goggles was to get a very expensive DJI smart controller, plug that into the goggles and then you could plug monitors into the smart controller but it's a very expensive, very cumbersome solution. One of the few enhancements to the V2 goggle is that it's going to connect to your smartphone and I think you can get the video out from the goggles to an app on your phone and then you might be able to get it from your phone to a display. I'm not a hundred percent sure on that because as of recording this video, the firmware for the goggles and the app for the phone to use that feature, those aren't out yet so I haven't personally experienced that but it is something that's coming so I do appreciate that DJI listened and they are making it easier to get the FPV signal on a display and not just in the goggles but it's still not as easy as with Sharkbite or analog that you can just broadcast to any Sharkbite or analog receiver but at this point we're kind of getting into the difference between DJI FPV and Sharkbite FPV and there is so much that we could explore with that that we should probably do a video dedicated to just that. So there's no way around it. Choosing what goggle is right for you is going to be strongly affected by whether you want to fly DJI HD or Sharkbite HD. They are both great systems and I think you'll be happy with either system. If you're going to be flying analog, I think the budget options are great and I also think you should consider the Attitude V6. Again, 350 bucks, pull it out of the box, you can fly analog and it's totally upgradable to HD if you want to make that switch. Now if you know that you want to fly Sharkbite HD FPV that just eliminates those two options and the DJI as well and you're going to be picking one of these. HD02 with the Sharkbite is definitely going to be the most expensive option but it's going to be the best Sharkbite experience. Now all up to fly Sharkbite on the HD02 you need the $500 goggle and you need the $250 Sharkbite receiver so we're talking about a $750 goggle experience. Man the DJI goggle for less than $600 really starts to sound attractive but you have to remember you're really locked into the DJI ecosystem which is more expensive than the Sharkbite components. So the gear that you're putting on your drone is going to be cheaper. How many drones do you have to build to make up that price difference? I don't know.  So for fun I kind of want to show you these two maxed out goggles. This is an HD02 equipped with a Sharkbite receiver up front and a TBS Fusion analog receiver. This is a very premium very nice analog receiver. I mean this is going to be like a real ultimate fast shark setup. It's pretty pricey right? All right here we've got Vortex's set of DJI goggles. This has the true RC stubby antennas on it. These offer improved reception over the standard DJI antennas and more importantly they make the goggle a lot smaller because they are shorter. He's got the quad posits forged carbon front plate on here. That's a pretty bling and piece and of course that rotor riot goggle strap. So that's just about going to do it for the five FPV goggles that we think you should consider when shopping for your first or your next set. Whichever goggle you decide here we have it available on Rotorat.com. Again there are other goggles available so if you want to shop around and find something else other than what we covered here you're welcome to do so. Again the goggles in our store are here for a reason. We believe in it. We stand by it and we'll support you and your purchase of it and make sure that you have a good experience. Whichever goggle you decide to go with whether it's the Attitude V6 or the DJI V2 you're going to have a great time. FPV it's the greatest hobby ever. You're flying through the air doing power loops shooting gaps so if you're new here for your psych that you're here welcome hit the subscribe button. We put videos out every Monday. If you enjoyed this video if you learned something about the goggles it helped you make a decision hit the like button. Let us know you enjoyed it. I'm Lydred. I'll see you next time on Rotoriot.