So this is about the WIPO Arbitration Mediation Centre, which deals with intellectual property disputes between private parties by offering certain alternative dispute resolution procedures to enable them to settle their disputes, once and for all, internationally, actually. And it's a relatively recent activity of the organisation, starting up about 20 years ago or so. And the principal area of activity that we have is cyber squatting or internet domain name cases. So these are cases where a trademark owner is alleging that someone has registered a domain name that is either the same as or confusingly similar to the trademark. And obviously, in the domain name space, you have great opportunity for that because there are now 1,200 generic top-level domains in operation. So for a company watching, surveying what's happening to its brand in those space, the space is increasing, it's 1,200 now. And secondly, there is endless variety that you can put. You can put an adjective before the name. You can put more or less flattering. You can alter the typing slightly. There are endless ways in which you can create a domain name registration that is confusingly similar to a mark. And what we see in that area is that the number of cases increases, 10% increase 2016 compared to 2015. We're talking about 3,000 cases. We're talking about cases in which now the so-called new GTLDs, so these are not .com.org, you know, the old GTLDs, but the new ones like .games.shop.stream, they now account for 16% of the caseload that we receive. It's very international, as one would expect with the internet, international set of procedures. So in 2016, our cases, domain name cases, involved parties from 109 countries. The top origin of filings was US, followed by France, Germany, UK, Switzerland. We give you figures on that. And we also give you figures on the various areas of activity, commercial activities, highest being banking and finance, followed by fashion, followed by heavy industry and so on. Just a final word then. We also do, through the Arbitration and Mediation Centre, offer procedures for not for domain name disputes, but generally intellectual property disputes between two parties. And I'm not saying it's very pleasing to see that there, well, I shouldn't be saying it's pleasing to see a lot more disputes, but it's pleasing to see a lot more disputes passing through our centre. So some 60 Mediation and Arbitration cases last year. And these can range from 20,000 euros to literally hundreds of millions of dollars in the value in dispute. So there we are. Eric, do you want to add anything? I think that's it, Director General. I think the figures are up on both counts. Domain name disputes and Arbitration and Mediation are all types of IP disputes. And with further growth of the domain name system, we expect to see those numbers continue to rise. That's one. So your principal motivation may be to divert traffic to your website. So someone looking for Xmark, and there is a slight variation on it, you might be coming up in the search results. And so diverting traffic, diverting eyeballs is number one. Number two is, yes, there are certain people who register something, jump in and register a domain name, and then will arbitrage it in, that is, they will offer it to the true owner, if I may say, at a price which is less than what it would cost them to do the domain name resolution. So you could register a domain name, which is confusingly similar to or the same as a trademark, and then you could say, well, it costs you maybe $10 to register it, and we'll sell it to you for $2,000, which is less than the company would have to pay in legal fees to go through a dispute settlement procedure. Now, of course, a lot of companies are very careful not to get involved in feeding that sort of activity. What's happening to the 3,000 cases that are filed? Are they resolved? Who is resolving them? What's the connection between the 3,000 cases and the 16 variations? Well, obviously, excuse me, in the case of domain name cases, you are dealing with a domain name registration, which is extremely easy to get. You could go online and get it in three seconds, and it's very cheap. $10 is as much as you would have to pay, depending on which provider you're using. So there is a potential for creating mischief there, and there's no screening procedure. There's no authority that looks at a domain name registration, or that's confusingly similar to a trademark. And all of that results from the desire in the early days of the Internet to ensure that regulatory procedures did not slow down this massive embracing of the Internet and growth of the Internet and the possibility of people to go online, register a domain name for a conference, an event, whatever it might be, very easily. And this procedure enables you to cease that activity. So they're all resolved. Some of them are resolved in favour of the domain name applicant. Most of them are resolved in favour of the trademark owner, and that's not surprising, because what we're dealing with is the bad-face registration of a domain name. So it's cyber-scrolling, you know. So who was resolving those? So we have a list of panellists, and the arbitration centre are points of panellists. Usually it's possible to have three panellists. You know, if the parties choose. And our panellists, we had... We used panellists from how many countries there? 47 countries. 47 countries last year. But 60 panellists were established. No, 60. So that's different. So 3,000 cases, first category. Second category is you and I have a dispute about copyright. You know, I claim that you have plagiarised my, you know, article or book or whatever it might be, or you and I had a dispute about patents. So you claim that I am using your technology, which is patented. So it's all possible intellectual property disputes, and they generally are a, you know, much more heavy substance that's involved. The first class is just this, you know... But it's still a panellist who resolves these 3,000 cases. Absolutely. Always. Yeah. Always one, always three. He listens to both sides and then says, this is it. Online procedure. Online procedure. So all, yeah, phalanx online. On the domain inside. On the domain inside, yeah. Could you remind us what happened when you made a decision against one of the parties, and this party has to close, to change the name, and what is the level of compliance? Okay, so... So... Yeah, sure. And do you have an estimation on the economic loss that suffered prime arts because of this situation, this confusion? We'll look, on the first, the system works on a contractual basis, namely that when a domain name registrar, that's someone who can register a domain name for you, is authorised to do so by ICANN, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, they agree that they will abide by the results of what's called the Uniform Dispute Resolution Procedure. And that's this. So they agree that they will implement the results. And when you apply for a domain name, you also agree that you will submit to a procedure that is brought under the UDRP, the Uniform Dispute Resolution Procedure. So if you sue me under that, claiming that I've cyber-squatted your trademark, I am obliged to submit to the procedure, even though some don't bother putting in defences. And the result will be either that I win and there's no cyber-squatting, it's judged, or the registration is cancelled or it is transferred to the winning party. These are the possibilities. There are no damages. And on the second question, we don't have any such estimate, but what we do know is that for a company that has a brand, of course the Internet and the domain name space is a hazardous area for them. So they have to watch what might be happening to their brand and companies will adopt different attitudes. Some will try to stop any possible infringement. That typically might be the case of a high-end fashion or auto-culture company, which doesn't want its reputation anyway diminished on the Internet. And others might say, well, we're just going to be interested in the dot-com area because that's where most space is happening and so on. So it's their strategy to determine how they protect their brand. The way most of them are supporting the country of origin and the respondents that they use in their cases. We do, Eric. At least, of course, we maintain statistics about who are the respondents in the whiteboard cases. A separate question is whether that is representative of the picture of South Scotting as a whole, but that is probably a reasonably fair measure of that. We publish, it's actually annexed two of the press release. We publish the statistics both on the complainant side. This is the trademark filing side, as well as the respondent side. That is those who register the domain names that are being objected against. And we see, as the Director General mentioned, the United States on the complainant side in the position number one, but we also see the United States still today in position one among respondents. That is those registrants who are being contested. However, we see China, which has come up through the ranks over the years of our statistics, being closed by in the second position among respondents that is followed by the United Kingdom, Turkey, Australia, France, India, et cetera. You'll see the listing quite... He stopped, he said, et cetera, when, after India, it was Netherlands. Because he's Dutch. Why do you feel it more as it's the most... Because it's a big company with lots of brands? It's a big company with lots of brands. And a separate question, and we are not sure whether that specifically relates to Philip Morris, is the relationship between, of course, counterfeiting and filing, trademark owners filing this type of case with WIPO against so-called service quarters. I would not presume that it's a big company with lots of brands. It's a big company with lots of brands, and a separate question, but I would not presume I have not done, we have not done the specific statistics on these many Philip Morris cases. But I would not be surprised if you see a fairly typical incidence of allegations of counterfeiting against the respondents, the registrants of those domain names in those cases. But that may explain as well. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. The percentage of 3,000 cases that come to your attention are of the total cyber and squatting cases. Or are there other ways of resolving the disputes without involving WIPO? I think your question goes not so much to what's the total number of UDIP cases coming to WIPO, which is about 60%, as the Director General mentioned. Your question goes to how many service squatting cases actually make it a formal complaint under this UDIP system. Is that correct? In other words, how many domain name cases, how many infringements, cyber case of cyber squatting are not even seen in this system. That is basically like asking us, would you please measure the tip of the iceberg by comparison to the rest of it. Sorry for the easy metaphor. But we do not know that. It's an interesting statistics domain. I think the best way to understand that it is just merely the tip of the iceberg is to know that in this system and even more so, of course, in court litigation it is the treatment owner that has to A, prepare the case, spot the case, find the case, observe it, the incidents of cyber squatting, B, make the case, write the case, C, file it and D, pay the fee. And so it is quite reasonable to assume that there are extremely high numbers of cyber squatting behind those cases that treatment owners have decided to invest their enforcement budgets into. How much will it cost? The standard fee for up to five domain names in one case for a single member panel, which is 95% or more of all cases decision is $1,500 and that fee has stayed $1,500 and that has stayed stable over the since the inception of the system because we need to keep this a low threshold system by comparison to the alternative of court litigation. Any more questions? Besides John there has been any evidence on cases that the arbitrators have looked at of intentional cyber squatting or covert damage of a command in branding the fact that to undermine a brand Yes, there's lots of cases in which there are very rude words before a brand. Okay, so you know, it might be for example, because I give you an example, only because it happened to be a case warm out and before that might be a rude word .com So if that's what you mean yes, that goes on which is complex No, I was thinking if the evidence found that it was structured by the competition to undermine the competitive brand there is a strategy behind using proper squatting to undermine your competition I hope people don't get ideas from your smart question but it doesn't seem to be the most logical presumption I think because it would be difficult for such a competitor to remain anonymous in this exercise sooner or later one would think that a case comes filed against such a competitor and I think the public relations or public or even legal consequences of that pill in comparison to any gains we don't have any evidence and we should also realize that there are 330 million domain registrations in the world so we will try about 330 million which includes not only the GT of these the generic top of domains but it also includes a component of what I believe today about one third of that which are national domains and so for any for Germany for example so for any party to believe that it could really start to make a material difference in harming reputation of a competitor on such an ocean of domain names I think is a rather tall ambition Can I follow up on that I was working on the other subject so I didn't hear everything but what information do you have about a systemic sort of approach to cyber spotting or not I mean who could it be sort of repeat offenders that are behind this and you know I mean even state actors potentially I mean the answer to the could it be of course yes well what is your evidence we don't have any evidence to suggest this is an area that attracts state activity or attention and well there are some serial respondents let's say so what do you know about them well the typical case of cyber spotting has evolved from you know a rather more incidental demonstration made in order to as the director general mentioned that one of the scenarios sell back for ransom in a sense at a premium the domain name to the third party trademark order that's the classic scenario in essence that got the European system led by the director general in 1999 started the evolution of the cases that we see at WIPO is of course the evolution of the domain name system as a whole what we see here is that professional parties have really started to dominate the registration picture these are the so-called domainers using a technical term here a domainer is not synonymous to a service quarter I think we should say that very clearly but the domainer is an entity often companies individuals behind them that use rather sophisticated technologies and techniques in order to monetize as many domain names as possible the possibility of course exists and is quite likely that among those huge portfolios which can run into the thousands or hundreds of thousands held by one entity names will be scooped up by those domainers that are actually infringing on third party trademark rights so yes there is definitely a systemic pattern to how domain names are being registered and with that by implication comes more systemic consequence in terms of cyber squatting and the cases that we see and they might for example be guessing what companies are going to do in the future what films might be coming out in the future what this, what that and perhaps one other thing to add to what Erik just said is that we do have a search engine for cases on our website here and you may wish to search certain terms and names of political things from there can I just follow that up what do you know about the geographic origin of the people that may be responsible for this cyber squatting and second question you mentioned that there is ransom in the hostage taking scenario hostage takers tend to take hostages from that pay ransom so in other words is Philip Morris repeat target our other companies are they saying okay we'd rather not deal with this and we'll just pay pay off I don't think it's a question of offer we can't give a definite answer to that I mean the indication would be that Philip Morris is very carefully guarding its brands from the cases yes it has more to do with presumed because of the nature of the problem it has more to do with trademark value than wherever that trademark is located and so no trademark is really safe from this wherever it is located and when you hear our director general indicate trends for example in fashion finding or especially under the rendering system there is probably in the link between those developments where the service courting activity and the filing campaigns of the future may shift too and just a final comment maybe is if you compare it to real property you know some people who are in the business of real property might be looking at sites around town where they're expecting some activity and they might want to they might purchase plots in order to be holding it when whoever it is that's planning something larger there is going to have to come along and buy them out so this is an area in which there is some legitimate competitive positioning but also illegitimate just a short one just to be clear is the profit of the fees related to these cases part of the $80 million that you mentioned before actually it's the revenue that we derive rather than profit I would say administering this service is part of the $380 million no no it's of the $380 million 76% PCT about 16 to 18% at Madrid trademarks and about 1% the Hague designs and about 1% arbitration a little bit less than that those are round figures


So they have floated the idea of what's called what they're calling a billionaires tax now This is a bizarre Tax, it's a kind of a tax that no country in the western world is ever as far as I know no country in the world is ever Put the tax like this together It's it's a it's a really It's a real piece of work.  It's a tax Motivated by envy and nothing else Nobody even in Sweden Denmark the so-called redistributive Countries of Europe or France for example would think of a tanks like this, you know the idea is To tax anybody who has wealth over a billion dollars over a billion dollars on the capital gains on the capital gains but We already tax capital gains We tax today capital gains when it is realized That is let's say I buy a stock of ten dollars and a year later I got really lucky and I sell it for twenty dollars the ten dollars That I made That gets taxed But let's say I bought a stock for ten dollars. I Sell it the next year for well, I sell it. I sell half of it Next year for twenty dollars, right? I only pay the capital gains taxes on the one on the part that I sold Half of it is what's called unrealized I've made money on that investment, but I haven't realized it. I haven't sold it. I haven't cashed out Take Elon Musk for example Elon Musk founded Tesla. He still owns. I don't know. Let's say 25% of Tesla Tesla is worth. I don't know last I saw just around numbers up a trillion dollars Elon Musk because he owns 25% of Tesla is worth 25 billion dollars But Elon Musk has not sold. Let's assume Elon Musk has not sold any shares of Tesla So he hasn't paid any taxes Remember on on this 250 billion dollars remember that He didn't buy the shares His basis of the shares is very very low because he got them when the company was founded for the most part So he has a capital gains of 250 billion dollars But it's not gonna pay any taxes on them until he starts selling the shares Until he starts divesting them selling them and this is why people complain about billionaires Did they have so much wealth? But they pay so little taxes because they don't pay taxes on that wealth and if the wealth grows But they're not realizing it. They're not selling that stock They don't pay taxes on And that pisses off a lot of people So what this bill would have done is basically placed at about 25% tax on unrealized capital gains so for example What they would have done with alone musk is they would have said, okay, you got in at zero It's now worth 250 billion. We're gonna tax your 250 billion at 25% Suddenly alone musk is gonna have a tax bill of 70 plus billion dollars Actually the actual math turns out that alone musk under the proposal that the Democrats have would have had to pay 50 billion dollars in taxes In one year in the first year of this bill and then afterwards only the incremental increase taxes on that 50 billion dollars in taxes Now notice it would have been a tax that only 700 Americans would have paid Not every year just the first year and then every year it would have been determined by how much Tesla stock would go up The more it went up the more it paid but in the first year you'd have to pay 50 billion now know that if you're the Walton's Sam Walton's children and You've inherited stock in Walmart With billions and billions of dollars and Walmart stock has not done that well since you inherited it and Maybe you've already sold some of it off and you've diversified in its in real estate and it's in all kinds of other projects And it's on all the other places Notice that you would actually pay very little money even though You're a billionaire, but you would have very little unrealized capital gains. So this is particularly gonna hurt the new voriche It's particularly gonna hurt The owner entrepreneur who's built his company up and is now worth more than a billion dollars It's particularly gonna hurt entrepreneurs Successful entrepreneurs Now, how is a lawnmower's gonna get 50 billion dollars to pay the tax? He doesn't have 50 billion lying around Well, he's gonna have to sell his shares His ownership in Tesla will go down significantly Which is not good for anybody. It's not good for corporate governance It's not good for Tesla. It's not good for a lawnmower's and the government's gonna take it And instead of 50 billion dollars being in a sense in Tesla And think of the price pressure when you're trying to sell 25% of the stock in a company what that would do to the price And now the government has it to waste on its social programs. I Mean talk about highway robbery Talk about highway robbery For 700 people I mean, I don't know how this is Institutional, I don't know how this is not discriminatory Disgusting abusive Makes no economic sense. It's completely destructive economically Every dollar you take out of a billionaire's pocket is a dollar. That's not invested It's a dollar. That's not used for productive means. It's a dollar that now in a sense is working to slow economic growth not to expand it. It's It's not clear what happens. What happens in a year where the stock market goes down What happens if because maybe because Elon Musk sells 50 billion dollars of Tesla stock what happens if Tesla stock goes down 50% Where the government refunds Elon Musk's money, it's not clear. We haven't seen the final proposal yet What happens if other billionaires when the stock market goes down they paid you by the way Jeff Bezos another one of these evil billionaires, right We'll have to pay forty four billion dollars forty four billion dollars in taxes talk about Confiscation a confiscatory tax rate It's it's absurd and insane You can't tax what has not been realized. I mean you can and they are and they want to Anyway, this was on the table every economist.  I mean everybody every good economist. I know People who pretend to be economists. I'm sure Richard Wolff thought this was fantastic So did I don't know about Paul Krugman? Paul Krugman hard to tell what he would have thought of this The whole thing was just Insanity now You have to give some of the senators and house members credit some Democrats in the house said we can't vote for this This is insane. It probably can't pass constitutional muster as if they care and and This is just stupid policy And they basically vetoed it Mansion Mnuchin in in in the Senate said no and now it's off the table. So the Democrats have back to square one They have lots of ideas of spending money. Yeah, you'll see loves it, of course There are lots of ideas about spending money, but they promised and some of them want to fulfill that promise surprisingly enough they promised To also raise taxes to make it quote revenue neutral and they can't figure that one out So the latest proposal latest proposal is I'm just giving you a heads up warning To tax the increase to have a 3% surcharge an extra tax of 3% on Anybody earning more than 10 million dollars So instead of a billionaire tax, this is now a millionaire tax It's only 3% so it's significantly lower than what it was before While this is horrible It's probably significantly less damaging economically and certainly less stupid economically still evil and nasty and confiscatory and You know loading up the rich, you know to pay for programs to the middle class It's not even you can't even use the altruism game here of oh, it's about the poor No, it this is these are all Programs that are meant to help the middle class. So let's screw people who are incredibly successful in order to hand out Free primary school education to a bunch of parents Elderly care, you know, all kinds of stuff like that at the margins increasing all the social programs in every direction and of course one thing, you know By the way, this is true of the of the capital gains tax the unrealized capital gains the idea was You know, it was a billionaire tax, but what happens to all billionaire taxes. Do you remember the Alternative minimum tax I forget when it was passed was passed a long long time ago And the alternative minimum tax was supposed to we're supposed to make sure that some of the richest Americans Small number in the thousands of Rich families who weren't paying taxes because they found all kinds of loopholes the alternative minimum taxes away To to get them to pay at least some kind of minimum and it was just a few hundred families today, I Think almost half of taxpayers pay the alternative minimum tax. It's in in snares everybody You know the income tax when it was passed in 1914 Constitutional amendment and Congress passed the first tax was very low and only seven percent of Americans paid income tax That was 1914 went to two years as President Wilson prepared us to go into the dumbest war ever World War one It was expanded to include almost all Americans So never believe that attacks will stay a billionaire tax then it becomes a what about the guy who makes 900 million Well, and if he's get taxed what about the one who makes 500 million was worth 500 million And hey, what about the hundred million guy and look, why don't we just tax the whole one percent? What about the top ten percent and soon the middle class of paying taxes and unrealized capital gains? Every tax proposed where they said oh no only the rich will pay There's always been expanded and the definition of rich has always been expanded So let me just say how thankful I am To senator cinnamon sentiment senator mansion Um, how thankful I am to the centrist Democrats in the house than a lot of them, but the ones who are For stopping these insane proposal. Yeah, this is Ron Wydans Wydans white. I don't know how you pronounce it the head of the finance committee in the senate's proposal He's a he's the senator Thankful to all the senators democrats as they may be who have resisted this insanity um It's nice to see that the democratic party is not a monolith Of nutty progressives. This is still bad, but at least not a monolith of nutty progressives um Episodes flat tax already you're not going to get a flat tax. There's no nobody is incentivized to provide a flat tax note the republicans Stop talking about flat tax that trump was never for a flat tax Republicans are not for it Never happy So happy to see Proposal after proposal after proposal defeated It'll be great if Biden's agenda gets killed by the infighting within the democratic party Just like repealing obamacare was killed by the infighting within the republican party and the lack of leadership from the white house It would be good to see The democrats following suit and and as i've told you many many times my favorite Balance of power In washington is is gridlock And one of the great tragedies of the republican of trump was that he managed to lose the republicans the senate Which i thought was pretty safe for republicans Luckily, we still have mansion who's kind of a half republican and and cinema who's Somewhat leans on economic issues in the right direction This is all good. Uh, you know the real enemy is government spending So, uh, what i'd really like to see defeated is any spending plan that the government proposes I think something will pass. I think democrats will coalesce around some smaller bill And they will get a pass by the end of the year They have to do something next year is is is midterms Nothing happens in congress during midterms because everybody's afraid So everybody sticks the status quo. So anything democrats want to pass is now If you have any influence in democratic senators or house members encourage them not to pass anything this year But I think they will it'll just be a smaller Less effectual bill with smaller less effectual taxes less damaging taxes All of that is for the better as compared to the alternative Of course, none of this would be on the table none of it If a publicans hadn't lost the house In 2018 and hadn't lost the senate in 2020 So you can thank republicans for being stupid enough Uh and pathetic enough and incompetent enough to lose both the house and the senate and the white house, of course uh in a span of 40 of Two years two years Thank you for listening or watching the iran brook show If you'd like to support the show We make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening. You get value from watching Show your appreciation. You can do that by going to your own book show dot com slash support By going to patreon subscribe star locals and just making a appropriate contribution Uh on any one of those uh any one of those channels Also, if you'd like to see the your own book show grow Please consider sharing our content and of course subscribe Press that little bell button right down there on youtube so that you get announcement when we go live and for you Those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show Thank you. I very much appreciate it


This show was brought to you by these happy patrons. Today's highlights, the simplest NPR shaders, the hashtag 256FES, and wire by WorthyKids. So, for all the beautiful people watching this right now, welcome to the BNPR show. First up, the news. Check out this demo by Rio Tima. The grease pencil now has improved sequence interpolation. You simply draw the lines in the keyframes in order, and the new improved interpolation will create in-betweens for you. This will potentially lower the workload, a real game changer. The next grease pencil improvement is the fill tool. Now the fill tool will fill even areas off-screen. Fill has precision options, now it can fill even the tightest areas. Fill also has a new tool to help fill over gaps. The lines will get extended, and you will use the fill after that. A much-welcomed improvement. The low-poly festival is upon us again. The hashtag 256FES is a modeling festival with a limitation of 256 tries and texture maximum size of 256 pixels squared. This is where pros and beginners will work within the limitations. The festival is a brainchild of at-feels-n-v-r, and has been running for a few years. As much as we wanted to show you some cool low-poly models is impossible to catch all the cool tweets as the festival is ongoing for the whole year. The rules aren't super strict, so you can go a bit below or above the numbers. The most important part is take it easy and have fun. If you've been downloading MULT for the past few weeks, you've been seeing the Creative Shrimp logo in the download. Creative Shrimp is officially sponsoring the further development of MULT. We, the BMPR team, welcome Creative Shrimp into the NPR community. So come join Creative Shrimp to boost NPR development by clicking the Become a Patron button. This is going to be a wild ride. Tutorial, hyper-summary time! This tutorial is an interesting one. It shows how to make stylized spot lamps by Colupsy. There are quite a few technical details, but here are the main points. This shader is not achieved by the shader alone. The geometry grid plays a major role in the shader. Then, there are two masks to mask the dot grid. The first mask is a cone mask. It uses object texture coordinates, multiply vector with 1 in the Y and Z axis. Get the vector length and remap the vector length with a color ramp. Now separate the X object texture coordinate. Use it on a map range node, remap it from negative 2 to 0 range to 0 to 1 range. This is useful when used as a threshold in the greater than math node. To fade the end of the cone, another map range node is used, but it is multiplied to the cone shape with a different max range. The second mask is done using a spot lamp, parented to the geometry grid. On the shader side, use a diffuse shader with a shader to RGB node with a color ramp, then multiply the result into the texture. Then change the color ramp to adjust the throw length of the spot lamp. And just like that, you can put any stylized texture into your spot lamp. This is not only useful for stylized spot lamps, but also useful where you need volumetric shaders to appear in 3D space. Just think aura, fire, and special effects. The second tutorial is a few pixel art tips by Felipe Dilli. Very few people will be able to see the Twitter thread, so we are including the short tutorial here. The first tip is how to position the composition for optimal pixel art. Take extra care with the camera focal length. More is better as that compresses the perspective. Then align the composition with the help of the camera composition guide. The second tip is using flat shading to help in stepping shaded areas. What does this mean? In pixel art, you have chunky pixels. To get that effect, the mesh should be shaded in controlled chunky steps instead of a smooth transition. You will be able to find his space station pixel art in the next beer fundraiser blend file. It will be a very complex setup. As far as how soon you can get this blend file, it will depend on the progress of the rest of the blend files. Please stay tuned. Have you seen At Letty's special sketchy tune shader from The Last Show? In this show, we'll show how it's done. One, for the shading part, Franal is mixed with Diffuse Color. Two, to get the sketchy texture look, we need a Veroni texture node. A noise texture is used as a scale input. Another Veroni texture is used as the randomness driver. All of these will be the threshold for the greater than operation for the shading part. Three, the next part is to add that stripped texture into the shading. The texture will be darker in the lit area and brighter in the shadow area, and hence this node setup. Four, lastly, we simply recolor the whole setup with the color ramp node. If you have more threshold levels, you can add more colors to the setup, and the result is stunning. Translating this into GLSL code would be fun, but that is after we have procedural textures in Malt. There really can't be enough NPR tutorials, so here's more. Anime Style Clouds and Starry Night by Christophe de Dain. This will teach you how to make stars and stylize night clouds. Want more advanced 3D pixel art? Then the video Making Advanced Pixel Art in Blender by Lars Mazaka is for you. Blender NPR Quick Explanation by PinCC is a short video to showcase one of many NPR workflows in his project. A very good overview video. Wouldn't you like to see a complex character setup? Raimu Project Overview by Aversion of Reality will make your head spin. It is best viewed in small doses. Tune Shaded Character Guide from Modeling to Final Shading by Lightning Boy Studio. This showcases how to use the LBS 2.0 shaders. If you already know how to use the shaders, beer, when done, will be a breeze to use. If you want a very optimized stylized grass tutorial, then the Stylized Animation Grass and Painting Look tutorial by Pierrick Picotte is what you're looking for. Now, lastly, back to the basics. The simplest NPR shaders in Eevee, brought to you by us. This short wiki shows the most commonly used NPR shaders. Even us pros use them very often. It's time to drop your jaws and salivate at these awesome artworks. Let's go! Animation Time! A Dragon Ball Gohan vs OVA, Absalon vs Elarmana by Dai Tomodachi. We don't want to spoil too much here, the battle is epic. It's like 5 episodes of DBG in one, if you know what I mean. The ad spot is a plot, so don't skip it. Wire by Worthy Kids is the best tactical clown you could ever get. Captain J and Big J tricked a vampire into opening a portal where Little J is kidnapped. A must watch since everything is grease pencil. Usada Pakora 3D Anime Short by Ulys. This is just adorable. Watch it on Twitter with the sound on. There are more NPR animations. A few of the animations, though, have strict copyright protections. So, to not get ourselves into legal trouble, we cannot show them here. Be sure to check them out in the show notes. And that's a wrap! Remember to participate in the hashtag 256Fes, it's quite fun! This show is brought to you by these awesome people. Please thank them kindly. Before we go, one final question. Which character or show has yellow as the dominant color?


Producing entertaining football. Let's see if we get that the match is under way Let's take a look at the Liverpool starting 11 Andrew Robertson starts with Trent Alexander Arnold in the pullback positions Virginia Wynaldum starts with Jordan Henderson in the center of the pitch and leading the attack today is the ultimate pressing machine Roberto Firmino Untroubled David De Gea starts in goal Harry McGuire plays alongside Victor Lindeneuve in central defense Fred Starks alongside Nemanja Matics in the center of midfield and rather than use a strike partnership They've gone with just the one player in attack Attempt from long range not one for his highlight reel. Well, it's a poor choice. He's got other options on why is he shooting from that distance? He's kept that out the net absolutely amazing Henderson on what is a perfect night for football the floodlights shining down on the players as we speak My name is Derek Ray and I'm joined for commentary by Leedison looking forward to bringing you action from the Premier League coming right up It is Liverpool up against Manchester United Cheers Derek. Yes excited about this one interesting match up for me. We should get a good game here Hopefully some begins between the posts much of undyke plays alongside Joe Gomez in central defense Sadio Mane starts with Mohammed Salah at Y and leading the attack today is the ultimate pressing machine Roberto Firmino Manchester United have chosen this particular shape Harry McGuire plays alongside Victor Lindeneuve in central defense Nemanja Matics starts with Fred in central midfield and Anthony Marcial is the main striker today Running with the ball confidently it needs an accurate cross Alexander Arnault Austin the great ones just stand still they know chances will come in that position and he wasn't disappointed Underway once more Liverpool have the lead Wait a pass Good technique, Fred and putter strike really, but he's in the back of the net Second goal for them here Marcial Bambisaka really play it in regretting that now Lee Oh my why how so many questions?


You guys know what time it is right now. It's a fang common of the day What's going on guys? Welcome to another video. Thank you guys so much for support Thank you guys so much for clicking on this video. You guys are the best I love you guys so much and everyone who supports me throughout, you know these five years that I've been doing this I literally thought that shirt was a person I about screamed like a little girl. So uh today Don't have too much going on. I mean I've been pretty busy, but not like filming filming stuff, you know editing Yeah, always, you know God's real, you know, I want to get to a hundred thousand subscribers. Alright, and you know I'm gonna kind of cheat on this quiz right here. Well, I'm just gonna ask you guys one question What what do you guys want to see? What type of videos do you want because for me to get to a hundred thousand subscribers? It's because of you guys correctly. You guys don't subscribe.  So I want to know what you guys enjoy the most what you guys want to see because I can tell you one thing I do have a variety of content on my channel. Some of you guys might want to see some different content So you guys need to tell me I want to be filming a lot this year, and I am so pumped up for it I'm so excited, you know, just not it's not all about You know all the views all this all that, you know I have fun doing this and this is why I do it and not only am I having fun You guys have fun watching it and it's just the best feeling in the world So let's go ahead get today's video start. Hey, hold up. Hold up believe a comment below If you're watching this right now Leave a comment and if it won't let you leave a comment, you're probably not subscribed So be sure to hit the subscribe button and hit the little bell so since you post notifications Because YouTube has been really messing with me lately. So do that for me, please Holy moly it's been raining like the past five days. So like literally I haven't been able to film So, uh, I Need to do a few things Before we get today's video started. Look at this. Just you know open gate to Noah's house, you know, just Come on by Storming bad and this thing ain't the best. There we go. Good. I'm good to love bugs right there All right, so I want to start off the video with this but How is there like no water in this bucket? I want you guys to know like it's been raining so much I just don't get it Honestly, I don't know why I just dumped that out if there's that much water. I'm just gonna leave it in Yeah, like I don't know why I did that but look how awesome outside. It is on the lake Guys is beautiful. We're gonna fish here in a minute We're gonna try to catch fish But first I want to explain what I'm doing with these bugs because you notice in the last vlog But I want to explain some more so every vlog I film I want to have a purpose All right, you know, there's gonna be a purpose behind the video on why I'm filming it Or it's just like a straight blind vlog, but most of the time it's not just a blind vlog So I want to explain, you know, a little bit of what I'm doing So I just got to my house in savannah is gonna Leave me more open to do what I want not in a way as in because I'm away from my parents not like that Because I'm living by myself So it's like, you know, all gym bobs over there, you know doing that Or old my mom's over here doing that and my dad's over here doing that. I'm just doing me. I'm doing my stuff I'm focused on my videos So we make it happen, right make it happen So what I want to equip in every single vlog see those three buckets over there see them see them right over there Those buckets Is that flipping challenge, you know, I'm practicing and I've always wanted to do it It's not just because like it makes me better because it probably I mean it might make me a little bit better. I don't know I just like doing it because it's so fun and so addicting. It's like I'm fishing, but it's like I'm in my bag I don't know.  You know, it's just a part of my passion and I just love doing it So I want to challenge myself in almost every single vlog I film around this house right here that I have to challenge a beat time Of making that so I have to make each bucket one time and like I'll time it on my phone And then I'll show you guys what I got and like we're gonna progress each vlog and try to keep pounding that away So that'd just be like a little segment in each vlog and then maybe another segment It'd be I have to catch a fish in each vlog. That's another cool challenge But I'm gonna go ahead and go to the flipping thing. I get one try all right one single try one try to uh See what time I get and you know, it is windy So I get one try.  So let's get started. All right guys. So this is how we're gonna do it. I cannot focus like You know, like counting in my head and flipping. I just not gonna work So, uh, I got a timer on my phone. We're gonna say it's gonna be a little bit off But the uh, we're on real amusing the kuma tcs. That scared me so bad my heart's beating I thought something about the technique I got my kuma Tcs martin apc rod and that's got a jig I cut the hook off and uh timers right here I'm gonna start in three. This is completely raw guys. So if I backlash your web, I don't care. I'm putting in the video three two one go Of course the line gets wrapped up on my rod All right, this is like uncut time 24 second 24 56.  That was honestly not the best um, I've got six six and a quarter before ain't gonna lie, uh I missed that second one and then I have to run to my phone. So it's just like it's crazy But uh, I'm gonna just shoot a few like fun shots, but that's the one for today 24 56 That's the record. This is day number one. Like I said, I won't get any practice any time So I just try you know, I try try Who knows I might wake up have a bad day and do worse in the next day But we're gonna keep this along with the series So I'm just gonna practice flip a little bit more and then uh, we'll go ahead and go out fishing It is time to go fishing guys. So I actually got a tcs spinning rod right here I got six pound line very light The reason I'm running the six pound line is because I'm actually using a drop shot And the warm I'm using is actually a jumbrog warm on a weedless drop shot hook So that's what we're working with.  It's been raining like the past couple weeks So it's kind of been a little weird. So let's see if we can catch a fish I'm so mad I'm so mad about that bite. It was like He just started peppering it out. I got a phone call. So I answered it and like I finally got a bite He's going to do I was like, all right, he's on there and when I set the phone down and I go to reel up Like I felt the weight and like I went to hook set and just nothing like It's just my line took off because he was like grabbed it and just ran with it Like that just screwed me up bad. Could I add one? I finally got a bite at least Is this like bugs or something? It's like some noxious thing I've ever heard. By the way, the wind is whipping right now I mean whipping. All right, super windy right now. But just bear with me We're walking down a little bit more to one of my neighbor's yard. She's really cool.  There should be a lot of fish right here. So It's actually better than the spot by my back By my backyard. So, uh, we're gonna try it right up here right by this bend.   Just awesome. I'm sure that have more bites I might run back and go grab a worm and see if we can catch some more right here That's right. I'll be back.  I'm gonna keep on fishing. I'm gonna leave you here All right guys, we're in back. Got me a worm. That's all I have right now So I'm gonna set that right there. I actually got my swim bait I'm gonna be trying this little swim bait out. It's just a little jig head I might reel it at the top of the water too You know sunsetting only have a little bit of time so you guys can actually see me catch the fish So let's go ahead try to catch one real quick. I'm gonna see if I can catch one on this bad boy I'm so mad, bro I wish I would have caught another fish Kind of heard about that and I had that other bite, but I was on the phone The one time I was doing something for like 10 seconds literally 10 seconds So I did catch fish, you know, I didn't zero which I'm proud about but at the same time I'm not proud at all. I mean the thing is I know there's so many big fish in here And it's just one of those things where it's like a pond I wouldn't be completely honest with you guys.  I'm not trying to sound like Negative or anything, but like it doesn't compare to like lake fishing as in like figuring the fish out. It doesn't To a point it does you got to figure out what they're biting on based on the conditions, you know, but All on all a pond fish is totally different than the lake Like if I see a bend or a ditch or like a tree down out here, you know, I'm a fish That's most like where the fish are gonna be and you know, the lake relates the same way, but Same time there's not as much to do. You know, you can't really travel fish different stuff You know, you can walk around the banks, but at a place like how mine is like There's houses everywhere. So I can't really walk around but uh I'm not too disappointed I'm not too disappointed. Um It could have been better. So I want to show you guys this new chandelier Or this dining table light. Oh, you got to see it when it's not bright. Come on. Look how cool those light bulbs are This thing's sick, man. Whoo. That's bright So I already know I told you guys to comment below what you guys want to see But I also want you to comment below who you want to win the fight Even if the fight, I mean the obviously obviously the fight's already going to be everybody now But let me know who you wanted to win. All right, leave it below. So I'm sending him off chair.  So I'm gonna pick one real quick real fast real real fast I haven't even looked at it yet. So let me let me go in dive in. Let's see what video We're gonna choose for the fan comment. So let's go ahead and hop in uh The the vlog where I started my tire was hot. All right, man So today's shout out goes to extreme squad and his comment just said I love your vids But man, thank you so much for the support. You even got three likes on that comment Thank you so much for the support the fact that you love my vids.   I know you guys probably think Or you just say that but seriously like every single one of you guys that support me my channel My journey at what I do because I work very hard towards it. I promise you that Thank you guys so much for the support. Help me hit a hundred thousand You guys tell me what you guys think I should do to be able to reach that goal And I know that's kind of cheating on the test kind of asking, you know for the answers, but You guys Let me know what you want me to make and what you guys enjoy the most So you can help me proceed all the way up to that level because I promise you guys I'm trying very hard. It's just a struggle right now. You know, let my channel fall off and I'm trying But thank you guys for watching. Be sure to like comment and subscribe and I'll catch you guys in the next one


All right, welcome everyone. This is the weekly TSE call. This is a public call open to everybody. And again, when I say everybody, I mean it. And just because you're not a TSE member doesn't mean you cannot participate and speak up. If you have valuable information, please do speak up. So there is a couple of requirements for you to participate though. The first one is to be aware of the antitrust policy notice, which is currently displayed if you're online. We all need to be aware and live by that policy. The other part is the code of conduct. And again, you should be aware of that. If you're not, that's not, please have a read through it. It's pretty simple. So with that done, let's move on and start with the agenda. Is there any announcements that I don't know? If not, there is a couple of, well, there were a couple of reports due. There's one that was submitted, the basic report. I posted a couple of comments that were responded to. I haven't seen any others. There is a couple of issues that are probably worth taking up, especially so they're actually two. One has to do with rocket chat and the challenges. These represent for the team. And the other has to do with the request to move to active status, which will take separately because I added a separate agenda item for that. So let's talk about the rocket chat issue. Grace, you're on. You want to talk about it? Hey, everyone. Thanks for having us. Yeah, so I think we've raised this a couple of times. So it's nothing new. Don't want to be the dead horse. We just have experienced kind of some more friction to last quarter of onboarding some of the Ethereum tuning to rocket chat. We have. We have been working on things like that. And that was kind of. Investigated, but not fully. Maybe linking to Slack or Gitter to our rocket chat. And we haven't made a decision yet if we're going to do that or not. But we might consider the next quarter to help kind of. Ease the transition point. But that's kind of our. Go forward plan at this point. from the team? How does that work? Yeah, so we've been working with Brian, the community team, to kind of think through what, you know, how we would integrate it. We're not sure exactly at the moment how to do it, but we have been working with them to, yeah, to, I guess, hopefully figure it out. Okay. But let me understand one thing that wasn't clear from reading this text. Is your plan to have this kind of linkage so that people can use either and they would appear? What's the, I'm not sure I understand the end goal there. What kind of linkage are you making more? So essentially, we would have, you know, everything would go to RocketChat, but you could also enter through another chat channel. So there would still be the record and that would be the record within RocketChat. But if someone wanted to ask questions, let's say in Flack or Gitter or something like that, they could. Okay, so that would be forwarded to RocketChat. Exactly. That's how we would hope it would work. Yeah, yeah, no, I understand this needs to be worked out, but that's the plan. Okay, I understand. Thank you. Hey, Grace, is a lot of your traffic on those other channels because that's what the community is? Yes, or so we don't currently have any channels set up for those. Previously, when it was Pantheon, we had Gitter. And that was where we were seeing a lot of the traffic, different Ethereum community projects used Flack and or Gitter. And that's what they're currently familiar with. We are the only project that I know of within the Ethereum community that uses RocketChat at this point. But Dano can speak to that a little more than I can. Yeah, it's mostly Gitter and Telegram and the new one. They started up a Discord server for some of the Ethereum 2 stuff, and they bridged their ETH2 Gitter from the Discord server. So that's throwing another new one in there. But I think the plan of bridging from Gitter to RocketChat by directionally is probably the easiest one.  When we're able to link them together, we see more realistic of what's going on in your community. Yeah, that reduces the friction because to chat on Gitter, you only need a GitHub account. And he uses that to authenticate who you are or a Twitter account. There's no extra step of having to go with an LFID that is only used on RocketChat. And that's the main source of our friction. Thank you.  There are some contributors, most of the users. The friction we have with contributors is educating them in the ways of the DCO. And that's not a reasonable ask to get rid of. So we're just teaching them how to do it as best we can. Okay, because that's what I was going to say is like for contributors, they have to have an LFID anyway. I haven't seen that you need an LFID for a DCO. You just need to add that mind to your commit, right? Oh yeah, you're right. The way we have it today, that's right. We talked about making it part of the process. But I just, I mean, for me, it's kind of, you know, when I started working on Hyperledger, I got an LFID and that was it. So I don't know why it's a big deal for people to do that. So the tricky thing is we're trying to bridge into a community that's not just Hyperledger. Ethereum is quite large. There's a lot of random contributors. We're starting to move into more of those random places that are out there. Because there's a lot of people who are very committed to Ethereum that have never interacted with Hyperledger. And those are the people we want to bring in. And if they see that little bit of friction, they will say, no, I'm good. So we want to reduce that friction. Well, so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So I get it. I totally get it. But we aren't turning this into Ethereum. This is a community that is a part of the Linux Foundation. And I don't think that we're just going to throw that off just because we want to get a few people from Ethereum to do a two minute exercise to get an ID.  And maybe we can make it easier for them to do that. I don't know. I mean, if the LF is up for that. But seriously, that is just, it's not an excuse. It's a really lame one. It takes two minutes out of your day. That's it for the users, not the contributors. And for a lot of people just on the slides of the friction, we'll keep them out of hyperledger. I mean, you can say it's a lame excuse, but that is the market that we're tapping into. And that is the reality of what it takes. All right. Well, so if the bridge can be made, you know, I think this becomes smooth. So it's okay. But I also feel like to me, this seems such a small price to pay. It's hard for me to believe that, you know, I would be turned off by that, but I can see how this is the case for some. So in any case, let's hope that this solution works. There's a bridge that can be made so that people can use whatever they prefer. You know, when it comes to tools, though, I have to say we can never settle on any common tools because there's always another one that somebody prefers. So it just named a whole bunch, right? Discourse, Instagram and whatever. It's like, so that's just the way it is. All right. So let's, any, is there any other questions about the Bezu report from anyone? Okay. If not, we can run. Yep. Go ahead guys. Here, no, sorry. One thing that I realized I left out in the original submission that I just wanted to raise the TSC as well is just that the security audit for Bezu is completing tomorrow and we should be receiving the final report then. I didn't have that in the original, when I originally submitted this on Monday, so just wanted to call that out to you all and we'll be, you know, sharing the results. And that's run by Dave and all of it. Yes, Dave, exactly. Dave and the Tivore is the firm that is performing it. Yeah. Yeah. But so it's through the iPod Azure. That's what I was asking about. That is correct. It is one of our audits. Okay. Thank you. I just like to say I'm glad to see that they're working more with the community with Caliper and things like that. So they are integrating themselves into the community at this point, which is great. All right. Thank you. Okay. So let's get back to the agenda. As I said, Caliper is missing. If anybody is involved in Caliper and could make it happen for next week, that would be appreciated. So with that said, we can move to the second part, which was highlighted in the comments of the Bezu report, but which I wanted to take on independently. They do raise the fact that they have got more maintainers and have increased the diversity. And they would like us to reconsider their request to move Bezu out of incubation. I have asked them to update the proposal. So we have a bunch of documents from the agenda. I link to an issue from the decision log, which itself links to the proposal. And the proposal has been updated quite recently over the last two days, I would say. But I appreciate the effort, both Dino and Grace helped out there. And so it reflects the latest status. But I don't know. I'll be happy to listen to everybody who's there, what they have to say. My reading of this is essentially last time we've discussed this quite extensively. There were two aspects that seem to be kind of being in the way of approving this request. The first and foremost was the lack of diversity, especially when it came to maintainers. And in general, it seemed a bit rushed. And in particular, they were not fully integrated with the hyperledger environment, using the tools and all that and the likes. I have to say, I feel like they've been diligent at trying to address all the issues we've raised. And at this point, it seems to me that, you know, they have checked all the boxes, and they are good to go. But so I would like to open it to to the TSE and ask if anybody has any questions or comments in this regard. Nothing? If there is no comments, then I suggest we just have a vote.  Do you want to roll call vote or no? Yeah, we might as well do a roll call vote. Okay. And the matter of Bezu, actor stats proposal, Angelo. Sorry, I'm fine. Was that a... Yes, that's a yes. Okay, Arno. Chris? Yeah. Dan is not here. Gary is not here. Hart? Yes. Mark? Yes. Nathan? Yes. Swetha? Yes. Tracy is excused. Troy? Yes. Okay, the matter passes. All right, congratulations. Welcome to the club. All right. So with that being taken care of, this leads us back to the discussion item of the agenda. It's the same one. I do want to highlight a couple of things before we get into this. So there are a couple of issues that I think we could make progress on, and I tried to shake the tree last time, but somehow it didn't happen. There was the plan for the governing docs issue with the GitHub repo. It seems like everybody was in agreement, but nothing happened. We were supposed to have a formal proposal put before us. And the other one was the security reporting policy. It's the same. I think I would appreciate if the people in charge of each of these items could take the half hour or 15 minutes to text to put the proposal on the wiki so that we can put those to rest. So I am working on the governing docs thing. You all may have noticed that you were added to a TSC repo at GitHub, and all the TSC members were added. This is, I'm working on it. I promise. So. All right. Very good. Thank you. I appreciate that. I did notice the notification on the TSC report. And I'm working on the security thing. And it came to the conclusion that I'm not sure that it needs to go before the TSC. There's not going to be any significant changes to the way we report security issues. We're looking deeper into the cost of using GitHub issues in general, but that's an entirely separate issue. In terms of security advisories and security bug handling, there really isn't much of a proposal here. I mean, I'm willing to discuss in further detail, but I don't think that it should really bother, it should concern the TSC. And that's totally acceptable to me, but then, you know, we need to, so should we just drop this issue from the decision log and say it's abandoned or it's become irrelevant or whatever is the right characterization? Yeah. I mean, at least in terms of reporting security bugs and handling them, yes. I'll detail it to the TSC mailing list if you'd like, exactly how I got to that conclusion. I think I owe you that. Because it may sound silly to you, but the authors, but you know, for me, it's like, I'm looking at the decision log backlog, and there's this issue and I'm like, okay, what can I do to close this, right? Yeah. So if you hear your way out that nobody's going to scream about, I'm good. Okay. I will go on to the decision log item and make a comment in there explaining the logic and just saying, I no longer think this is an issue. How's that? All right, sounds good. Dave, can I ask a question? Yeah. Well, a second question. Will the changes you're proposing require anything different from the projects? Or is it all internal behind the curtain kind of things? It's internal behind the curtain kind of things. It really concerns just the volunteers on the security team. Okay. Thank you. Then yeah, I was just going to say, you know, if you could at some point highlight the changes, but if it's all behind the scenes then. Yeah, I'll explain it on the decision log item. No problem. The people this really affects are the people who are on the security mailing list. Yeah. And that's the audience really. Okay. Then yeah, I'm fine with what you're proposing. And Rye, I had a question for you. Is there anything we can do as a TSC to help you? I know you're swamped with a million things on the previous issue. I am waiting for some guidance from Brian on exactly which documents to bring over. The pieces that I guess would help is taking a strong position on the format, like Markdown versus RST. So that's the only thing that would help really. But I don't know that that needs to be chatted about here. And then approve pull request when I start sending them in. All right. Anything else? There was an announcement that I think Dave Hughesby wants to make. Oh, Dave? What was that? There is an announcement that should have been at the top of the call. It was a very important announcement. Are you talking about the calendar one? Absolutely. Why don't you take a victory lap on the calendar? I wasn't going to bother anybody. But yeah. So I've been contacted by a number of SIG chairs and group maintainers over the last month, right? Ever since we moved away from Google calendars over to groups.io, we've been plagued by a bunch of nagging issues related to, hey, I scheduled a meeting and now it's not showing up in the community calendar, or I scheduled it and it's not reflected in the community calendar very quickly, that kind of stuff. After weeks of investigation, we tracked it down to, yes, this is definitely a problem with the groups.io platform. And with Rye support and Brian's urging, we went through LFIT first because I think there's some relationship between LFIT and groups.io, but ultimately we went to groups.io, filed a very polite bug report. And as of two days ago, their fix has been launched on groups.io and it appears to have fixed all of the issues that we are seeing. So I asked that all of the SIG chairs and working group chairs and all of the project leads or maintainers to go and double-check, you know, if it really concerns you, if you've been running into issues, just go double-check that all of your events that you've scheduled on your groups.io group are now showing up in the community calendar on the wiki. I've gone through it myself and it appears to be correct. And I've emailed the people who have emailed me recently about bugs and they have all confirmed that it seems to be fixed. So this is huge news and thanks, Rye, for poking me with a stick. It made my day yesterday, actually, because we were faced with having to move back to Google calendars and I was not at all excited about that. But now we don't. Anyway, we're sticking with groups.io. You guys, your calendars should all work out. All right. Thank you for the announcement. That's good information. I'm glad that this was sorted out. So let's get back to the agenda, long-term agenda. So we spent a couple of calls talking about this last week. We actually had an interesting presentation that was right on spot when it comes to discussing, you know, how we could position the different pieces one would need for hyperledger blockchain framework that is generic enough that people can take pieces here and there to suit their need. And I thought it was pretty thought provoking and interesting. And so there wasn't much discussion after the fact, though. And I still haven't seen any discussion on the wiki. So I would like to turn back to the TSC today and ask if they have had the chance to think about it if they want to share any thoughts or comments on what we heard or the issue in general. Don't all talk at the same time, please. I think I agree with you. It's a very interesting idea and approach and, you know, especially with cloud-based services and things now, everything is going more modular, mix and match, microservices, all those other buzzwords. So, you know, I think Dano brought up a good point at the end that, well, it really depends on the execution model of what you can mix and match together, things like that. So I think there's a lot to look at. I don't know, you know, if we want to address it as a TSC or if we want to have someone like the architecture team go look at it, or just let things run their course, you know, was the proposal that we should all go and break up like fabric into different components that can be pulled in? Or just a general suggestion that that's the way to go in projects? So that was certainly for myself, but, you know, it seemed to me, I mean, this is what the issue really is about, is what is it that we want to do in this regard? And do we want to go down the route of, you know, that was kind of sketched out by this presentation and define this kind of high-level architecture where we identify components and how they might interact and identify further down the different pieces of work that could take place so that we enable this kind of integrations or not. And, you know, we can do it in different ways. We could say we're going to, you know, just put some kind of high-level recommendation that people are free to ignore or take it at heart to start tackling, or we can just put of a foot down and say, no, this is hyperledger. We want to enforce some kind of convergence. And we have to discuss how we would go at this. So to me, this is what this all discussion is supposed to be about, is what could we do and what do we want to do about this topic in general? So not too long ago, we had this huge kerfuffle over working groups versus task forces. And, you know, I think that the general consensus was that working groups sort of working independently of and sort of, you know, trying to do this sort of the top-down view of something weren't going to be effective. And we chose the approach of task forces, which really were targeted pieces of work that, and again, I think the important, you know, tweak was that involved projects, right, looking to do some piece of work collaboratively between them, you know, whether that was to adopt and integrate a new API or a common API or whatever, but to do a piecemeal and not try to do some big top-down architectural set. And I'm still very much, I mean, again, we have, now we have, what, four active top-level frameworks, none of which have anything to do with the other. And this is not going to get fixed by coming up with some architecture and then trying to force fit everything into some high-level architecture. It's going to get fixed by teams getting together and looking to figure out ways that we could get to the sort of Lego approach that we're talking about. And so, I mean, I think the important thing is that you want to essentially set that that's our end goal. It may take us three years to get there, but that we want to start getting people serious about collaboratively working together to try and solve those problems incrementally rather than trying to come up with some, you know, architecture to rule them all, because that almost never works. Right. All right. Thanks, Chris. Yeah. So I'll say I agree with Chris that sort of the top-down working group approach hasn't been effective. So I guess the question I have in response to that is what can we do to sort of put people who are working across similar things on different projects into communication? Because this to me at least seems like the most effective way to solve this problem is that if I'm doing X for project A and you're doing X for project B, you know, we need to know about this and, you know, know about each other and then we can potentially discuss collaboration at that point. Yeah. So I think in this regard, I mean, one example that was given last week, which is like, you know, the consensus algorithm. We all have some and they often are pluggable in some ways, but they all use different types of APIs and whatnot. And would there be a possibility to have a common API so that all the project can reuse some modules? And it seems to me that one thing that is achievable for the TSC maybe is to identify those potential, you know, areas of collaboration. And it doesn't mean we have any ways to enforce it or we even want to force prizes to work on those. But at least highlighting what we think those are and inviting the community at large, you know, to look at those and maybe, you know, try to facilitate some collaboration, I think maybe something the TSC could take up. Yeah. And part of the way we want to talk about this is this is not it. We're not giving the maintainers a task list or, you know, a list of chores that they need to accomplish. What we're trying to do is we're trying to set out position pieces on here's where there's good overlap. We're trying to inspire more contribution and more collaboration. So I think part of how we want to set the stage for this is we want to make sure that we get folks like has been said before that are working on overlapping pieces to write something about how cool it would be if we can, you know, accomplish a certain vision or we can give something a try that maybe no one's tried before. Thanks, Nathan. Who else? Any other opinions or agreement? So I guess in a container world, it's not as important. But, you know, we have, it seems like every project picks a different language to work in. So, you know, what, how much stuff would a user have to add to their machine to run something that has go and rust components and C++ components, you know, maybe most of the runtime stuff is already there. But it just, you know, we need to look at things from that perspective too, I think. But then again, if you're all separate containers or, you know, identity or, you know, the crypto libraries are in their own container that you just called and maybe you don't need as much stuff if you're doing a rest interface or something. Guess I'm showing my age. No, no, I think, I think that's a valid point.  And the same is true for programming languages and whatnot. Ideally, we would, we all agreed on one license would have been nice to have one programming language would make, you know, this kind of collaboration much easier, but it's not going to happen. So we do have indeed to live with that and find some ways to accommodate. Yeah, the programming language is, you know, is an issue for a lot of things like we would love to try to do some fabric or integration, but sort of the go see interface is a real problem for that. Well, and this is where, you know, inspiring contribution is important. And we've been looking at in the rest community, they've been looking at how to bypass or get around the go see or the seago limitations in order to make native calls more friendly from rust to go. And there's some interesting things that could be done there. It's a question of, you know, getting that problem exposed to where someone feels like they can work on it. All right, anything else? Because then, you know, for me, it seems like we all feel like, yeah, there would be some value in doing this. Then the question becomes, okay, practically speaking, how do we go at doing this? It's not so easy, is it? No, but we don't solve easy problems. We let those for lesser people, right? You know, I think it was hard who was, you know, talking about it. We need a way to know what's going on inside each project, you know, so we can identify areas that are currently both being, you know, worked on in separate projects. And people can at least talk, you know, developers for each or architects for each can each talk and figure out what, you know, maybe even just define a high level API for that component. So that in the future, it's easier to integrate if the need comes up or if the desire comes up. So there needs to be a communication vehicle there somewhere. And not sure, you know, is that projects talking to each other more or, you know, is there some team we have that sort of digs deeper into each project? I don't know. Jimmy, this is really the hard part, honestly, because, you know, we've all been advocating cross pollination, coordination, you know, cross projects activities for years. And it just, you know, it has happened in some cases, but not always as much as we would have liked. And I think it's fundamentally hard. And so I honestly don't know what to propose. We actually do practically speaking that will get us there. We can keep preaching, but that's only goes so far. So I know this is Andrew, I was feeling these minutes about what's what's essential in each of these hyper blockchain, blockchain systems, so you can take fabric, you can take Bezu and so the most fundamental thing they are doing the system is to build the truth, right? So they build the ledger and the ledger is the source of truth. But this thing is necessarily not compatible. They do this in a very different way. And the only way to make them to get to communicating is not saying, hey, you have to to now speak my language, or I speak your language, we have to find a third way necessarily. Because I was thinking, okay, what if fabric uses doesn't make sense if fabric uses as ordering service Bezu, just as ordering service, and then for execution using some some other thing, it looks to me that it would be a waste of resources. So why using Bezu there's much more complex machinery just for the ordering, the ordering service. At some point I was thinking maybe we should cut all this project, we should not have these monolithic systems that do all the things they do execution, they do ordering, they do validation, they do this, they do that. We should really have only the components, but much smaller. So I don't know, cutting fabric or having a component that is only able to handle the ledger. Another component is only able to handle the ordering service. Otherwise, there is no other way. I mean, how can you take to make this whole monolithic system communicating, you have to develop a protocol that build trust among people who are speaking different languages. This is the task that you want to solve. And probably there is a project, we have an upper ledger somewhere is implementing some of this interconnection, right? So these are the things always, either we cut everything in modules or we push for this system, these Esperanto languages that will allow different blockchains to communicate. That's the way I think. So thank you, Angelo. I agree with you and I don't think, I mean, what you just described, the ordering service, let's take this as an example. I think it's a good one. It's like, I think this is exactly the proposal that James and Bill put forward last week, or Barry, and it's like, they basically said, yeah, we would like to have all these pieces independent and be able to combine them the way we want. And I don't know that, and this is really what is before us, is their desire to go that way. And how do we achieve this if we want to? How do we break these things up? And I don't think it's by radically saying, okay, tomorrow there's no more like all these monolithic projects, it's more along the lines of what has been done with indie where you kind of like break some pots out and say, okay, we're going to make this component more general so it can be used by other projects.  And maybe there's a way to externalize the fabric ordering service. And you say, okay, if you want an ordering service, here is one. And you have to define the API at the right level so it can be used by different projects. And then, you know, so this is really what I think is in front of us is, you know, what would it take to go down that route where eventually fabricants say, hey, we don't need to maintain the ordering service as part of fabric anymore, we use the hyperledger ordering service. And then other projects can do the same. And, you know, step by step, you can go towards this system where you have a set of components that you all use. And there may still be some like secret source that's specific to each project on how to put those pieces together that fits different needs. But at least as you know, but at least they share a lot more code. That's right. I will say that fabric in a sense is going this direction. If you say that they are splitting, there is the fabric process, the fabric chain code, the fabric, then still the monolithic piece that puts together ordering execution and blah, blah, all these things. No, sorry, ordering validation and blah, blah, gossip and all these things. But it can really be modularized. It could really go that way. But this is up to each project, I guess we cannot force them to say you have to cut this in pieces. Well, and I really think what this gets to is we're trying to maximize the usefulness of our code and how much utility our community can provide. And modularity is a means to that end. And when we start talking about modularity for its own sake, we get lost. But if we talk about modularity as making pieces of code more useful and making it so more people can come and contribute to that code because they need it for something, that's where we grow the community and we've done a good service. And so what we're trying to do is we're trying to identify chunks of code or chunks of architecture that have common utility across the platform and then make it obvious that those things have common utility to try to get more contributors to those pieces. Hey, there's a couple comments on rocket chat as well. I don't know, Bobby, do you want to speak up or James? Sure. Hi, everybody. Just the learning material group is trying to collect like documentation. And if you take a step back and look down on this, I think if everybody gathered the same type of documentation, it would be easier to compare and pull out what commonalities each one of these projects have. So the learning materials working group could help out in that if that's just a position. Thanks. Thank you, Bobby. And James, you posted the document. Can you tell us what this is about? Sorry, I was trying to unmute there. So this document was from the actually, it's up on the architectural working group for Hyperledger. So I pulled it from there. I think it looks like somebody tried to attack this a year ago, but I think the concept is exactly as whoever talked a minute ago. There are components that are being rewritten two, three, four times that if you're able to pull those out and have the people working on those and each of those projects together, you'll end up with one component, you'll have more people to work on it. You'll have a component that can be shared across the group. And that's really what you're trying to do at it or what we would like to see out of it is components that actually can be shared across. And it didn't even have to be in Hyperledger. It could be a different blockchain altogether. But we extensively, before our National Science Foundation grant, looked at consensus and we looked at how it was done within the Ethereum for Enterprise. We looked at fabric, we looked at what it was doing and saw to. And the commonality is probably 75% of the 80% of the functionality is the same across all three of those. All three of those allow a variety of consensus mechanisms. Then what if they were using a single component that cuts quite a bit of programming out and now it allows you to move faster within your own project as long as you're able to use it. It's what the working group was doing or the group has been doing in SaTooth and then the Splinter group that went off on the side. They're moving all the networking components for their Splinter and SaTooth into a single component so that we have two projects using one set of networking protocols. And it shouldn't matter on language I think language, at least that I've seen over the few decades I've been involved in and programming has become just a what everybody likes to do. The last two large projects I did had seven or eight languages intermixed within the entire program because we were using a variety of different things we downloaded off the web. I had a bunch of different people working for in different languages. I don't think that's necessarily anything that you would ever want to do because languages are changing very rapidly and can be adapted. But I think it's really about how do you share time? How do you make it so that you probably have a better consensus mechanism coming out if everybody's working on one way of doing it than you do by having three groups spend a fraction of the timeline. So that's what we were after and I think it was well said earlier. All right, thank you. Any other comments? Troy? Who's speaking? Go ahead. I was trying to. Dana. Go ahead. So in that document that was shared that second diagram I think is going towards one thing that I think we kind of need to develop which is an OSI type stack. You know they got that for the networks and the like for example one thing you can do is you can take out the physical there, you can use wires, you can use wireless. So I think that's a bit longer term vision for where this this stack should go but I think that's the sort of integration that we would want to move towards. All right, thank you. So I seek a little bit of chatting on the channel and you're gonna be good to verbalize those unless you guys prefer we hang up and then continue the chat. Oh, sorry. I guess I made the comment on the chat channel that these modules we talk about, these Lego bricks, I think too much we focus on sharing among frameworks and I think there's a bigger topic that is how can I build my customized solution built up from these Lego bricks. So I don't think it's just about framework sharing code but how do I actually build my custom solution and that custom solution being a customized fabric or a customized other framework but I'm just not familiar with fabric. Yeah and I think this is the message I heard last week in the presentation right they do want to have their own way of putting all these pieces together. I just think that you know setting as a first goal to be able to have these components shared by different frameworks is is a move forward into that you know in that direction. Right so Mick asked in the chat if I might sort of share some of the reasons why we're not using transactive fabric. We initially thought oh this would be cool we can share a common transaction processing mechanism that the challenge of course was that transact actually bites off most of what the fabric here does. Not all of it but a lot of it and so what ended up instead of just having sort of a pluggable transaction processing engine that had an API to a ledger we ended up with the full validation pipeline that was redundant with what we already had and a schedule order to schedule the processing of those transactions which we already had and yet it didn't solve the complete problem because we couldn't just sort of throw everything else away and adopt transact because it wasn't doing all of the things that we needed. Right so you know the challenge there was I think it was a poor approach to you know coming up with this sort of modularity if the focus of transact had been exclusively on okay so you know you know if you were to sort of carve out the piece of code that's essentially doing what the EVM and what you know hyperledger fabric chain code and what the sawtooth you know transaction family thing was doing just do that and maybe you know adopt a new approach that people seem to be evolving towards in terms of wasm that that might have been the thing that we could then use as a way of carving out the need to have all these different approaches but again the problem was that it was essentially becoming the new engine for sawtooth and so there was no desire at all for fabric to essentially integrate all of this for very little value right because we weren't going to be using the schedule or we weren't going to be using the validation pipeline we already had one that it was didn't it didn't meet our needs. Yeah so that that sounds a bit like what the situation in Jillo was talking about earlier where you know you wouldn't want to use the whole Bezu framework to just do the ordering part and it has to do with you know where do you draw the line between the different components so that they are actually suitable for many different users and maybe this is an area where the TSE could get involved in trying I mean the project should probably try to figure out is there a better API than the one like Transact you know has today or but but if not the TSE maybe could could help here in identifying where to draw the line between the different components I don't know. I don't think there's going to be one per one for the whole stack I think each component is going to connect to the different layer in a different way and I think that's part of the difficulty it's figuring out what the connections of each layer should be for example for spark contracts one thing you could do is you could use host functions inside a wasm and use that as your connection but when it comes to consensus that's not really a something that's easy to do. So you know the one thing that I think you know if there were a single area that you could carve out and say this is an area that we could actually start working on collaboratively and adapt to our respective platforms and that would be the SDK right how does an application interact with the underlying blockchain framework and you know if you were to take something you know along the lines of let's say web three just for get some shiggles here and expand that to be able to support you know larger payload sizes and so forth that we're needing to do some of the things we're doing around supply chain and yada yada yada then and come up with a you know a single API that could be multi-lingual you know we could support it in Java and JavaScript and all the things then you have a common way that you interact with the underlying platform people building applications have certain additional amounts of choice and then you know they can you know we can differentiate and so forth underneath then as you you know then once you get past that then you start to think about well we could all share the common set of protos or whatever to interact with the underlying you know the back end platform and then start consolidating and then working your way in rather than trying to sort of decompose something that's already got inertia and I think that that's again the kind of thing that potentially has the most promise going forward so that then we can just be you know maintaining a single SDK with you know some adapter to the various back ends that could eventually be just a single SDK with a common set of you know a common protocol that we use to interact with the back end that kind of thing makes much more sense than trying to figure out how do we do ordering because again ordering is not something that is as Angela said it's not handled the same in all of these different platforms it's completely different right and so as a result it's not clear that we can necessarily just tease out an ordering API because they are so different yeah and then there's always you know every searching for performance and those things tend to come in the way of performance right if you have a very generic API you're not going to get basically the best performance out of it so there's an incentive to do more built-in functionality for some of those things at least but I agree with you at the API the SDK level I you know I actually I forget who I was talking to about this recently I look at the latest fabric SDKs you know they're not different than many others it's like at the end of the day what do you do you know you connect to a network and you say okay I submit a transaction you wait for the receipt and there are different variations but you know a few more things but I can write a fabric API that application that submits a transaction in less than I think 15 lines of code now and I bet the concept being touched on by the different calls in these 50 lines 15 lines is very generic and applicable to pretty much any blockchain framework so all right I think this is a good discussion we have five minutes left anything else anybody wants to say before we close all right if there is nothing I'm happy to close with a few minutes to spare but I you know I think we I find that you know quite frankly when Dan brought this up initially I was like oh my I don't know where we go with this but he did acknowledge well this is not something I expect to be solved in a in a couple of calls but I do find the discussion to be interesting so I'm happy to continue I do want to say there are a couple of other issues that may not be as exciting in some ways but I think would be useful and for those of us for those of you who were at the Hyperledge Global Forum and so my my keynote there I touch on some of the issues that I would like us to also tackle as part of the TSC now that we have pretty much closed all these other issues that I have to do with trying to harmonize the different ways the different projects conduct themselves in terms of okay what does it mean for instance to be a maintainer what's the process to become a maintainer to remain a maintainer maybe to you know deprecate or whatever we call that like a retire I should say a maintainer and I think there are many other things like this we we agreed on a common repository structure and I think that this is a good thing and we should continue down that line and try to tackle other aspects of how the different projects conduct themselves because they would benefit the community at large we have a lot of people out there we're trying to understand what those different projects are about how to interact with the the community and the more harmony we have between how the different projects behave the easier it is for people to find their way around and I think it makes sense for us to tackle those issues so you can expect from me to have this kind of to bring these kind of issues in the decision log and try to get us to to set some guidelines it doesn't mean we have like a one way and this is mandatory every has to do it that one way but I think we could at least try to provide some recommended way so that if projects don't have a strong feeling they could adopt something that's more common than not so with that being said I'm going to shut up and close the call on this so thank you all for joining good discussion talk to you next week good bye


It's actually really important for me to make sure the environment that I work with with my colleagues is a happy environment is a workplace that when people wake up in the morning want to go to work. I very hands-on, so it's getting in in the morning and making sure everything says it should be, everything's getting baked, baking it personally myself. I manage everything to do with the installation of our gardens from implementation from the design department through the contracts, the quotes and then into the day-to-day installation with the teams on the ground. Myself and my husband obviously both run the business, so when it comes to workplace health and safety we're both aware that we're both officers for the whole company. When you have a small business and you're a decision-maker you're pretty much responsible for everything. I am making all the decisions within the business, the financial matters. As the owner of the practice I acknowledge that it's my responsibility to make sure that I provide a safe working environment. We have our culture around safety here, it's our people, it's our product, it's the things that we put into it and it's a major focus. As an officer I'm doing everything I reasonably can. I've got to make sure that everything meets its WHS requirements. Just entails us to be aware of the WHS space but also heavily involved in continual implementation and development of processes and guidelines. You obviously can't be here every hour of the day so you need to find people that you can trust. If something goes wrong there are processes and systems in place that the managers can direct their concerns and explanations of the events straight to the directors and therefore they can be acted on as fast as possible. As the officer part of the role is to ensure that it's adhered to yes and all those guidelines are followed, an easy process for the team to be engaged with as well. I think having adequate resources all the time is really important because it means that people aren't having to cut corners. The officer knows that all the ins and outs in the business and it's not a transferable role. You can tell when a business is hands-on and when it's well run and I hope that's reflected in my business. It affects the bottom line, having people happy, safe, fulfilled in their job, they do a better day's work, we get a better result, our customers get a better result, everyone's a winner.