Hey, we're live this afternoon after a few glitches in our Facebook connection. We're finally here. I am so excited today to have not only the best nutritionists in the world, but my dear friend Megan Dopp and I will introduce her in just a moment. But today we're going to talk about optimal nutrition for performance and gut health. And we've got some stories for you because both Megan and I have been through quite a bit in the gut health realm. And we both know the power of nutrition at overcoming these illnesses. Just a little background, if you haven't seen the other videos here on the live stream, you can watch all of them anytime you want. They're all recorded here on Facebook and then also on my YouTube channel. You can watch, I think we have like 60 plus videos now. Just find my name Jill Carnahan on YouTube and you can watch all of those for free. Lots of great content there. If you want to find my products, you can find them at DrJillHealth.com and all my blogs and articles about gut health and about optimal nutrition for performance, which is our topic today, can be found on my website, JillCarnahan.com. You can also find Megan there under Forbes Nutritional, either under Forbes Nutritional Consulting, I'll include all the links. So don't worry about that. Or on my website, JillCarnahan.com under services, you can find her either place. So I don't have the formal bio Megan, but I want to introduce you as a friend and a colleague in the Nask about your story. So we met, I remember way back when I first moved to Boulder and started practicing out of Dr. Roundtree's office. And you met me. I don't remember how you heard about me, but came in and we had this great talk. I remember where I was sitting when I met you and we shared our stories of our health and our guts. And I remember just like, I like this girl. She's awesome. Like really, really connecting and hearing your story and just your energy. And you've got such a wealth of knowledge that comes from your education and your functional medicine certified as well. As a registered dietitian, which maybe you can tell the audience in a second, there really is a difference between your training. And there's a lot of online nutritional courses nowadays that are, you know, go over a weekend and get a nutritional certification. And you have the real thing, the real degree. So tell us first just a little bit about what's a registered dietitian and what's your background training. And yeah, yeah. So, I mean, our training, I went to Colorado State and the undergrad didactic program was, you know, a lot of science, a lot of chemistry, a lot of kind of hard courses that actually was hesitant to go into. I know a lot of people say that about doctors.  But, you know, it was a lot of science. And then, and so we had a four year undergrad didactic program. And then after that, we go on and do one or two years in the field. And we have to get a certain amount of hours working in all of our different rotations, being, you know, the hospital and community. And, you know, it's been a long time now, so I forget, but I built my whole, my whole program actually in Boulder, I did a distance option. I went through University of Delaware because I was working for a dietitian here in Boulder, Nancy Grayson at the time, who had her own practice. And I developed my own rotation practical here in Boulder with her and all the other dietitians. So I was able to stay and work and get hands on experience very early on. And, and then I ended up working with her after I graduated. And actually, that's, I'd actually bought her company and she moved away. And, and I hope she's well because she was great. And so it was a very fast process, but it was also a lot of knowledge. And it was, at that time, it seemed like take a while, but it was very in depth. And I learned a lot. And then I focused a lot in the community realm because she was, you know, practice, private practice. And so we worked in a cardiac clinic and then also in a cancer clinic. And so moved on from there. But yeah, that, that is, that has been a good sort of ground groundwork, especially for what I've done. And now I'm happy to move. I was happy to learn more about functional medicine, because I felt like that was a big help in my health. And so that was really good. Yeah, well, tell us a little bit, because I remember sitting there talking to you and being like, Oh my gosh, we have so much in common. Tell us a little bit about your story of your, a little bit about your own health journey, because it always drives all of us. And really allows us to seek the answers that we may not have found in conventional medicine. Right, right. Yeah, growing up, gosh, I mean, so I met you, I actually got office space in Dr. Roundtree's office. And then we got to talking, you know, I looked over my shoulder chatting, and then all of a sudden it was like, this is in common, this is in common, this is in common. And like you said, I was like, who is this amazing person? You know, like, how did this just happen? And I remember talking to my family like, you'll never believe who I just met. You know, and so it was, it was just like you said, I totally granted wish. So it's been awesome. And, you know, so back to the, you know, my, my story, you know, I was, I grew up in Michigan, and, you know, on a lake and actually near a lot of nuclear plants, oddly enough, but I started to have some trouble with my GI about, oh gosh, when I was 10, and it got really severe, really fast, and the doctors were just trying to figure out, you know, what's going on, and it took them about a year, and us going to the children's hospital in Chicago to figure out what exactly it was. And so through colonoscopy, they figured out it was Crohn's, and it was very severe. And so they started to, you know, try to do all the treatments, all the medicines, you know, all of those types of things. And unfortunately, I actually wasn't responding to any of that. So I just, yeah, everybody, everyone's different in what they respond to, and I just didn't. So I endured a lot of, you know, a lot of surgeries and just a lot of years of just trying to figure out what's going on. I was really young. So, and we lived in a small town. So back then it was kind of a very obscure diagnosis, you know, what is this? We've never heard of it. And so, you know, we just did our best to listen to the doctors who, of course, said, you know, diet has nothing to do with it. She needs to get calories. You and I both heard that, right? If it like literally same phrase, diet has nothing to do with this, Jill. And it kind of changed my life. I know yours took my weight. I don't know a lot. I don't know a lot, but that does not make sense, right? So back to you. It just definitely doesn't feel that way. And so, yeah, over time, and as I just felt like, you know, this can't be and going to school, I knew I wanted to do something in the health realm. And, and, you know, I, at that point, I was a little bit more stable, but yeah, that was many surgeries and a lot of hospital time later. And, and so once we were, once I was in school, I thought, gosh, you know, now's my chance. Like, what can I learn to just better help myself? I know exercise has always helped me feel better. I know that, you know, I, I like emotional health definitely can play a role. I know that staying hydrated, I knew these like kind of big, you know, broad things, but what else can I do? And so I, I talked to some professors and, and I really got some good insight from them actually, and it was very helpful. And I figured, you know, food man food is really where I want to learn. And it was great because it was a great place to learn about that. And I was really happy to, you know, get, get somewhere with it. And, and through the years in my 20s, when I really was trying to grasp on to, you know, what's going on with my body and what can I do? The functional medicine piece came in, like in my mid 20s. And, and that's when things really like I was starting to get in triathlon. And I was, you know, healthy enough to do these things at that point. And it was really great because then I could start to peel back the layers, you know, and, and not only was I still here and able to live life and do these things that I wasn't sure I was going to be able to do. But now, now I can, I'm exceeding my expectations. And these, you know, like the artichoke I always say, my grandfather always used to say, Oh, you peel the layers back of the artichoke and you get that great heart in the center, you know. And so it's really helpful to, to, I mean, it took years and years and years to unveil all of the medications and inflammation and understand and what foods and, you know, as you probably have to, you go through these layers of, of health that in different phases where you get better and better. So it's just been, you know, functional medicine, I just feel like I just has changed my life has changed my family's life. And I just, I'm so grateful. Oh, I love that story. And it's so parallel. Because again, if you haven't heard me talk about Crohn's right for chemotherapy, and both of us have these reasons, whether it was the exposures or gut permeability or dysbiosis, let's transition just a little because you and I both know at the root of Crohn's and colitis and IBS and those are very different diagnoses. So I'm not putting them into a bucket. We've got inflammatory bowel disease, which is what both Megan and I had years ago, decades ago now for both of us Crohn's, both of us had Crohn's disease. And then we have colitis, which is another version of an inflammatory bowel. And then we have IBS, which is just non specific. But what I know as a functional doctor and what Megan knows as a functional nutritionist is there is almost always root cause underlying these conditions. So what we see is we see usually there is what we know about Crohn's is there's an abnormal microbial response to a normal microbial situation. So you can have overgrowth of normal microbes in your small bowel or fungal overgrowth, which are both very, very common. And that for someone with the Crohn's genetics, like Megan and I basically triggers this in auto inflammatory reaction where the body starts to attack its own gut. So you have this autoimmune disease that attacks the gut lining and creates pain and bleeding and malabsorption. But the root thing from a functional medicine perspective is this overgrowth or abnormal and it could be parasites, fungal, bacterial, there's lots of different versions of it. But I know both Megan and I we found healing by like looking at that root thing and treating it. So let's shift to nutrition though because nutritionist core say you have abnormal overgrowth of bacteria or abnormal overgrowth of yeast. Megan, what have you found to be key and treating because I think sometimes the diet can treat both inflammatory bowel and IBS similarly because the underlying root causes can be similar. I'll let you just talk a little bit about how does the nutrition play into this and what have you found in your decades of treating patients and yourself? Yeah, I think that one of, you know, always trying to feed the person without feeding the bugs. I guess that's what I always come back to when I'm talking with patients is like, hey, we want to make sure you're flourishing and we don't want to let them take any of this energy. So the way to do that is to try to get as many healthy fats into the diet. So, you know, the olive oil, the different types of coconut oil, you know, cooking with oils that are more stable at high heats like avocado oil and then obviously the fish oils, APA, DHA, lots of good healthy omega-3s to help dampen down that inflammation. So fats really aren't going to feed the bacteria or the yeast and so, but they also will give you, you know, twice as many calories per gram for the human. So as you're adjusting your diet, you're getting that nourishment. When we look at those macronutrients, you know, the fats, the proteins, the carbohydrates and you move on to the carbohydrates, then with those, you know, we're trying again to choose very specifically because those are the ones that can really tend to feed the gut microbes and cause disruption. And so, you know, there's, for some people, it depends like, as we know, there's about five million diets out there for different types of GI issues. And when we try to keep it simple, you know, usually the lower glycemic fruits are going to be a good option. For some people, taking out grains is important. For some people, just doing some whole grain cooked gluten-free options like brown rice or quinoa can be a good option. And then getting more, a lot of your carbohydrates from other vegetables is always a good option because vegetables, I always try to emphasize this, vegetables really have all the nutrients that we're looking for, but they don't have the calorie. So depending on the person, you really have to adjust, you know, do you need to add some other, you know, fats and things in there to make, allow for enough nourishment or is that enough, you know, getting those nutrients are so key because of all the antioxidants and the phytonutrients and the thing, I mean, they're actually, they're medicine, you know, they tell ourselves how to perform. And so the vegetables are so key in our, in our recovery and our detox. And so a great way to feed the body without feeding the bugs. And then the proteins too. So speaking of the detox, you know, trying to get lean proteins that are from good sources, you know, the grass fed, the free range, the organic, because again, we, I think a lot of people know now what those pesticides and what those growth hormones and things are doing to the gut and disrupting those genetic markers and things. So I think that choosing near proteins wisely and getting them from good sources is really important as well. Yeah, I couldn't agree more because it's, you know, growing up in a farm, we had steak and potatoes, which is the worst thing in the world. But then you kind of go towards like really getting your, you know, grass-fed beef or grass-finished beef, which is something that's hard to find. Your wild salmon and your farm-based salmon, those are actually totally two different food groups in my book. A farm salmon is going to have PCBs and phthalates and issues with other chemicals and pesticides.  So if you're eating butter or lard or eggs or cheese or any animal product, you need to make sure that's from an organic source because otherwise it's going to actually absorb toxic load. And then wild salmon on the other hand is super healthy. So I always have people kind of shift towards that. And I found, I don't know about you, but a lot of my patients tend to already have low stomach acid or poor digestive capacity. And so they do better on the proteins like fish or chicken versus a huge amount of red meat. And again, it depends because I have no problem for most people with the clean types of red meat. In fact, a beef can have the same omega profile as fish as long as it's fed right, right? It's what our food eats. Any comments on like sources? And then sometimes exotic meats like bison or elk or buffalo are so good because they're less allergenic, right? Because a lot of our patients have like a beef allergy or you know, comments on proteins and your favorites or what do you recommend for patients? Yeah, I mean, our big fan is wild sea bass. I mean, we really, really love that, but it's so pricey. We kind of have to keep it at bay for too much. But I, and also Dover Soul, Wild Dover Soul is a really small whitefish. And it's easy to, you know, put in a pan and cook quickly and things like that too. I love seafood. Unfortunately, we live in Colorado. So it's a little bit less appealing in the interstates, in my opinion. But yeah, and then again, it does become more individual. But my personal favorites, yeah, I mean, I've always been more, I actually grew up, I really didn't like meat. I think it can be very chewy. And I read very much more prefer beans and lentils. But, but when done, right? And you know, if chicken, I do, I do like it pretty well now and getting, if you cook it right, then it gets, you know, then I do prefer to have a chicken or a turkey type of meat versus a red meat. But, but yeah, I really think getting variety and knowing, like you said, what you digest better and what's available in your area, I think that's another big one, because I know a lot of people that just, you know, you can get things shipped in, but, you know, it just depends on what's in your area too. So I do like bison a lot. So I think that's another option. But yeah, those are some of the favorites. Oh, perfect. Yeah, people, because people love practical. And let's talk a little bit about, well, first of all, I wanted to mention, so for most of my patients, you know, they've been everywhere, a lot of them are already eating clean, but my cardinal rule for most people is gluten-free. I'd love for you to talk just a little bit about gluten and why it's such a problem and why most people, even if they're not celiac or not gluten sensitive, may do better off gluten. And then I typical dairy is also an issue for many people and sugar. So those are my top three. We can do food allergy testing and take them off those, you know, like more foods if needed. But what happens at a very basic level, many of you know this, you can have permeability in the gut and you leak these antigens across into the bloodstream. And then they create this inflammatory response. So part of us helping to heal the patient is just temporarily taking out the big inflammatory foods, which could be almonds or soy or corn or sugar or wheat or whatever. But what I find in general people with gut issues, my patients with gut issues generally do better for the most part off gluten dairy sugar. Comments on food allergies and what you see. And obviously we can do more than that, like in a full elimination diet. But how do you approach that with patients? Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. You know, the, I was calling the big hitters, you know, like what's going to make the most impact without having to do a whole lot, like not everybody's able to do a whole lot of tests and, and, and, you know, go down a lot of different roads. And so I feel like, well, you know, I think you and I both get a lot of very motivated individuals who are kind of sick of them not feeling well. And so to say like, well, these three things can make the biggest impact on your gut health is really helpful.  And, you know, if they're having GI symptoms, then you can put the two together and make a good protocol. But I think for most people, when they do have GI issues, yeah, the gluten dairy sugar, and then sometimes we'll even start depending on their symptoms, you know, are there FODMAP foods that are correlated? Are there is digestion an issue? Are there other food sensitivities? And so knowing, okay, well, when they eat, do they get symptoms immediately? Or are they delayed? Some of those delayed symptoms are those food sensitivities that just build up to their threshold and then their body kind of has that reaction. So for a lot of my patients, yeah, we do the, we do gluten-free, dairy-free, sugar-free. And then from there, where do we land, you know, like where do we get? Do we need to look further? Do we need to do some testing? Do we need to see? But I think that's been such a great starting point because the test results for some of the the food sensitivities takes some time anyway. So we get that going right away. And I think, you know, when, yeah, for when people eat gluten who are sensitive, it's interesting because it's not always this immediate like, oh, it's gluten that's causing an issue. And I think that's what's so confusing and, you know, these issues are this like long-standing chronic inflammatory pattern. And your body is just ebbing and flowing with that chronic pattern, you know? And so when what people don't understand is that you're not going to notice a difference until you're off of gluten, dairy, and sugar for a longer period of time. It most for most people, it's not, oh, three days later, I'm totally good, you know? And so for most people, it's good to understand that it takes some time to really see those benefits, because the leaky gut or gut impermeability, all that, that takes time to heal. It doesn't, it doesn't, it didn't happen overnight and it's not just going to heal overnight. So I love that you said that explanation, because really the half-life of these antibodies, dates to corn or to wheat, is three weeks, 21 days. So I always, I'm sure you do the same, like a 30-day elimination diet is kind of a standard, because you have a little more than three weeks. And what we would do for those of you listening who want to try this, the top three gluten, dairy, sugar, 30 days off, see how you feel. And then after that, try to reintroduce them one at a time. And you'll be shocked at maybe the brain fog or the joint pain or the skin turgor or there's things that'll change when you add that back in, you're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea that dairy or gluten or your stomach upset or loose stools. So often people don't realize, because they have this, I always say it's like low-grade static in the background until they clear the channel and reset. They don't realize how much food is affecting them. The longer version is the top seven, which is gluten, dairy, egg, soy, corn, sugar, alcohol. Now that's a harder one to sell, but that can be profound. And it's free, guys. Like you don't have to go do a test, you can go 30 days. Whole 30 has made it really popular. So if you want a program or a cookbook or, you know, Whole 30 approved, that has made the elimination diet really popular and you can do it on your own. Let's talk just a little. You mentioned FODMAPS. Probably not everybody knows what that is. Can you tell us a little bit about what is FODMAPS and when would you use FODMAP, low-FODMAP diet? Yeah. So FODMAPS are basically an acronym for the different types of sugars that are fermentable. And so when people have too much bacteria in their gut, and like you said earlier, they're not necessarily pathogenic bacteria, but it's just an overgrowth of bacteria. And these bacteria can produce these byproducts that become very unpleasant and cause symptoms like gas, bloating, diarrhea, and inflammation. So when people have that type of scenario, lowering the fermentability with the foods that they're eating is very impactful so that then their symptoms resolve or at least get better. And a lot of times, you know, we'll still need to do some treatment to kind of knock back that bacteria. But the foods themselves at least can get people with much less symptoms and can get them, you know, resuming their life at a better pace. And so what we try to do, the FODMAP diet is basically trying to avoid, there's actually also, you know, Dr. Seebecker's, her platform, her protocol with the, she actually includes some of the specific carbohydrate diet into her FODMAP diet. So then you're actually excluding a lot of foods that trigger some of that fungal dysbiosis as well, as well as the bacterial dysbiosis.  And so that's something I always ask people. So, you know, do you have issues with, you know, apples or fermented foods or broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, apple. You're like listening, you're like, yeah, every one of those foods give, or garlic and onion. Those are like, garlic and onion is big. Yeah. And the page is like, yeah, yeah, I avoid all those foods, you know, you're dealing with. So if you're listening, you're like onion, garlic, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, apple, pear, all kind of cause you did not feel so well or gassy bloated.  And as Megan said, that's one of the treatments is you can literally do an elemental diet with just no FODMAPs or a low FODMAP diet. And even without herbs or medication, often get a really good response. Now, again, Megan and I both often recommend herbs or meds with it, you know, your doctor, because those will really take it to the next level. But the diet can be pretty profound in treatment. Right. Right. And I think, you know, like you, like you've said in the past, just how, how often that is for the precursor to that sometimes is that fungal dysbiosis. So the diet can be really helpful for fungal dysbiosis too. So then you're kind of treating both as well at the same time. So yeah, and you're not like select because antibiotics can have a place that use them all the time appropriately. But if you are using antibiotics and there's fungal issues, of course, you player that. So like you and I know it's important to think about how we're doing. Well, let's shift in our last few minutes on performance, totally different topic, because you need a lot of athletes in Boulder, a lot of professional athletes. What have you found if someone wants to perform better? What are some of the diet tips you do for your athletic patients or your professional athletes? Right. Yeah. I think the biggest thing is, is first getting their basic foods ready, you know, like you're, you're eating balanced meals, you're getting good quality food, you're eating at specific intervals throughout the day. And then the other piece is that hydration and that, that actually is a very big part of the athlete protocol. Because when you, when you're out there for many hours in the heat, especially in Colorado when it's very dry, that when you get dehydrated, you know, your, your recovery just goes out the door. So some of the things that we try to do are getting a proper sports drink and getting a proper recovery. So I think sometimes people will say, well, you know, I don't want, I don't want to have too much carbohydrate or I don't want to have too much sugar. And I think that's, that's where, it's because I work with a lot of athletes that also have GI issues. And so that's where we do have to come up with some other options and not necessarily take out all sugar because their performance, they will not get through a 100 mile bike ride. But, but we have to time things in a really specific manner. Nutrient timing becomes a very, very big part of what we do. And knowing when to have the carbohydrates and when to have the recovery so that you're getting your muscles replenished right away makes a really big difference in their performance and the recovery. But then the rest of the day has to, I mean, especially if people are, you know, are struggling with any GI issues, the rest of the day really does need to be very clean and precise so that, you know, you're really getting the, you're really getting the nutrients, you're getting, you know, the proper proteins, fats and those vegetables, because as you know, when you're exercising, there's so many health benefits from exercise, but abundance of exercise and, and any for that matter, it does produce free radicals. And, you know, we do need to combat that with antioxidants.  And that's actually not true. Yes, some people have a different genetic makeup and they are probably less vulnerable. But we definitely need to take that into account.  You do need to get those healthy nutrients from fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, all of that to really bring those antioxidants in and fight back those free radicals. So, you know, we do a lot with smoothies, we do a lot with whey protein, so that you're getting that recovered branch chain amino acids before and after higher loosing for people who are vegetarian, because that's just such an important amino acid for muscle recovery. And that's not often in a lot of the vegetarian foods.  Oh, I love that. And so practical too. I remember back at the Boulder Boulder, I don't know how many years ago when I ran and I was on kind of a low carb diet for my guy at that time, and I didn't do any juices or or squeezy gels or anything. And I remember the last like half mile I about passed out. I was so like my friend who is with me literally like carried me over the finish line, like I'm not I'm going down and I'm sure my blood sugar was like 40 or something. And I remember like, Oh, that was very close. I felt like I was lacking out and they just grabbed me and like carried me over. But clearly I didn't know how to feel. I was like, Oh, I'll be fine. What I realized, and again, you know, this could you work every day, it was like the practice I was fine, but the adrenaline of the real race totally used up more blood sugar, sugar, right? So that whole energy and the atmosphere and there was probably a longer day, like everything about it was more intense. And I crashed. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the higher your heart rate, the more sugar you're burning, you know, the lower heart rate. So like for Iron Man, a lot of times, I mean, unless you're pro, which you know, they can do crazy things, but a lot of times you're doing a lower heart rate. So then you're able to sustain more fats and some proteins and you can actually digest them for some people. And that way you're able to eat more real food. But then when you're doing a shorter Olympic distance race or a 10k or whatever, your heart rate is much higher. You have, you're going to burn through those by kitchen stores so fast.  Oh, the total amateur. I learned. That's fun. Well, what kind of last tips would you leave for people as far as like, we talked about performance, we talked about gut health. What's some of the most common questions that you get when people come in of any age or type or style? What are some of the most or most common problems? Yeah, the most common. Yeah, I do I do see a lot of people who do have GI issues and they are kind of all over the place. I do see I think SIBO has been very common, I'd say in the last several years, I think that's probably one of the bigger things that is, you know, it's finally got a name and people can correlate their symptoms. And so they're like, Hey, I kind of maybe know where what direction to go with this now. And so I think that's kind of one of the bigger things. I think you know a lot about this, but I mean, I think there's a lot of that histamine, mast cell stuff that's presenting. And I think that's something that you know, you have some really great podcasts and Facebook lives on that.  And you said from then earlier and then we didn't really quantify it, but so true. We think in the gym or all these things that we're doing are critical for our body mass and our health and our skin. I would say at least 80% is the food that we would you agree like some people don't realize how much whether it's your body composition or the weight that you want to be or the optimal brain health and performance and energy. People think it's the exercise. Exercise is huge, but I feel I'm sure you do too. Any comments like how big of a deal the foods that we put in our body are? Right. Yeah. And in fact, I, when I used to work at Lifetime Fitness many years ago and they had a, they did a study and they actually posted it near our desk and it said, I think it, I don't remember the exact numbers, but it said, you know, you're going to achieve your 15% of people achieve their weight goal with exercise, but 80% achieve it with food. It's that much more impactful. And, you know, you put the two together and you're 95% there. So yeah. Wow. And that's exactly what I've seen, right? It's like, in fact, my own little weird history of I used to be super high intensity running and all that. And I literally stopped exercising about two years ago. Not really because of course I do weights in it, but I like will walk and hike stuff that I didn't really consider real exercise before. And I got in the best shape of my life because I was driving the Corzall and for me in my early 40s, that was one of the things that really made a big difference. So it's funny how the right exercise for the right person is so critical. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, knowing your body for sure. Yeah. Any last tips or tricks or things that you'd like to share?  I haven't really done that, but I mean, there's there's so many out there.  So I think that could be helpful for people if they're having any issues in that regard. But I have a real passion for cooking. I just don't have the time as much as they used to. So I think I think, you know, I'm always happy to I have a lot of recipes at hand for for my patients and clients. And I think I'll start posting more up on my website.  So it's tremendous. Yeah, we will share your website. We'd love for you to post because you are always my go to like, what's some good recipes, Megan, for this, when it's like low histamine, low oxlate, low fondant, like how do we write? Yeah, no, I've got them all. So thank you so much for joining us today. I'm gonna, like I said, I'll link your website and all your information below. And thanks again for all your wonderful tips and tricks. Thanks so much for having me.  And thanks to everyone who came on the show as well. Thanks. Bye bye.


And you know, we should use the mics because they're... Hello, everybody. These don't really amplify, do they? A little bit? Okay, good. Well, welcome. Good morning. Thank you all for being here. It's so really cool to look around and see so many great faces in the room. It's a real honor for me personally, and I know for all of us here at the Goodman, to host this conversation about the Latino Theater Commons here at the Goodman. Many, many, many years ago, Teatro Vista did a co-production with the Goodman of Jose Rivera's Cloud Tectonics. And I believe that was 1995. And ever since then, it's, you know, I think kind of been a privilege for me to be what I, tell some people, it's like in the belly of the beast here at the Goodman, sort of advocating on behalf of Latino artists and new Latino work. And it's been a great privilege. And so it's a real honor to host this conversation here. Over the years here at the Goodman, we've had the privilege to work with a lot of the writers in this room, a lot of the actors and artists in this room. And then to host the Latino Theater Festival for the last 10 or 12 years or so, expanding sort of the notion of what Latino Theater might and could be in this country, to include translation, to include international work, and certainly to create the space here at the Goodman and in Chicago for our brothers and sisters around the country as well. But now I feel like the time has come for, you know, something a little bit more formal or a little bit more organized nationwide. And it's incredibly gratifying to see what has been happening over the last year and then especially what happened this fall in Boston. And so we have four people, yeah, right? So we have four people with us here this morning that many of you may know. I'll just quickly introduce Ricardo Gutierrez over here to my left, who is, Ricardo is the Artistic Director of Teatro Vista here in Chicago. He's a fabulous actor, fabulous director, and great all around human being. Lisa Portes over here to my left as well. Lisa is the head of the MFA directing program at the Theater School at DePaul University and a fabulous director as well. To my right is Anne Garcia-Romero and is a playwright and an assistant professor at Notre Dame University. Anne, welcome. And to Anne's right is Tlok Rivas. Tlok is an associate professor, assistant professor. He's a professor at University of Iowa and is also a freelance director, a fabulous director and also a great all around human being. And I'm just thrilled to have these four people here. Tlalok and Lisa are founding members, I guess you would say, of the Latino Theater Commons and they have created a sort of a format about how to talk about what happened in Boston and also to start talking about what the future looks like. So I think at this point, I am going to turn it over to Anne to tell us a little bit about the history of the Latino Theater Commons, Anne. Well, thank you so much, Henry, and thank you to the Goodman for hosting this wonderful conversation this afternoon and we're really thrilled to be here and to see this wonderful work all weekend. And so this initiative began with an idea from Karen Zacarias, a wonderful playwright has been produced here at the Goodman Theatre who was at the arena stage as a playwright in residence. And she had this dream to have a gathering of a small gathering of Latino Theater artists to talk about the state of the field, what's happening, how are we going to talk about the future of the field. And so eight of us came together in May of 2012 in D.C. and had a meeting together where we brainstormed, we discussed, we talked, we planned, we dreamed and we came up with an idea to form what we call the Latina Latino Theater Commons. And the idea was to create a initiative that would advocate for U.S. Latina Latino Theater artists and scholars around the country to connect us, to connect the various communities around the country that were already organizing on their own and really to be a platform to celebrate the diversity of work in the community and to really bring to the American Theater at large our vision for a multicultural, multi-layered, complex Latina Latino theater community and the work that comes from this community. So we had this vision, we met, we came up with a plan to implement the vision and the plan was to have five initiatives. The first initiative was to have a national convening in Boston in 2013 to gather a select group of folks to meet and begin this conversation on a national level. We also had a vision to have in 2014 an encuentro of Latino theater companies in Los Angeles at LATC, the Los Angeles Theater Center to basically find a way to talk about aesthetics and look at 10 companies from around the country. Our next initiative is 2015 here in Chicago. I'm at DePaul University to have a carnival of new Latino-Latina work. So readings of plays to celebrate the new work in our community and then the fifth initiative and I wanna get this name completely correctly is the Maria Irene Fornes Center for the Advancement of Latina Latino Theater. So we'll hear more from folks about those initiatives in a few minutes. I also wanted to mention briefly that the commons, we are supported by HowlRound, which is an organization in Boston now at Arts Emerson and it's directed by Paulie Carl and also David Dower is the head of the Artistic Programming at the Arts Emerson and they have given us support, guidance, insight as to how to organize ourselves and how to really come together as a community to bring these visions into reality. I also have to mention most definitely Jamie Galoon who is the Associate Director of HowlRound who has been Jaime Galoon. She has been our amazing inspiratress, someone who's helped us with organizing, guiding, so she's been an amazing force as well. And so just briefly, when we had the initial vision, we came back together in the fall of that year and formed a steering committee of about 20 members from across the country of various companies, universities to begin to expand the conversation. Some of those companies included members from Oregon Shakespeare Festival, Center Theater Group, Sepp & Wolff, El Deatro Campesino, the Hip Hop Theater Festival and Aurora Theater in Atlanta. Schools included USC, Brown, DePaul, University of Iowa, Princeton UCLA and University of Notre Dame. And so we got together in March of 2013, a year later to plan this national convening. We got a grant from the Doris Duke Foundation and we came together for two days to kind of envision what might this convening look like and how might we plan as a community to invite about 80 folks into a room together in Boston to begin to talk about the state of the field, to begin to talk about our dreams and how do we really, as a group, as a community, organize and advocate for the amazing work we have amongst us. And that's the history and mission of the Latino Theater Commons. Will you read this one little bit? Oh, I'd be happy to, yeah. So we have a mission statement I should read for the HowlRoundTV, hi folks, record. So this is our mission statement, what we are. The Latina Latino Theater Commons is a movement made up of passionate, articulate, driven Latina and Latino theater artists and scholars from across the country. The movement advocates for the Latina Latino Theater as a vital, significant presence in the field.  We create nationally recognized events and sustain an online platform that creates and celebrates our diverse connections as well as promotes the quality and the quantity of our work. We honor our past with reflection and envision our future with optimism and enthusiasm. I love that because Juliette Carrillo wrote that, beautiful. Hello. I just thought you were gonna keep talking. I suddenly realized I shouldn't mistake the mic. No, you could. I think actually, Lisa, you're on next to talk a little bit about, what? You can't probably read my writing. I was trying to be so subtle, oh my God. She had written, what did you write that I thought was in tonses? She wrote outcomes and I said, oh, in tonses. Anyway, sorry. It's so nobody can read my writing. Thank you very much, Henry. Hi, everybody. I'm gonna talk a little bit about the convening itself and there's many people in the room who are at the convening and so anything I don't say, bring up in the Q and A afterwards because we are recording live for HowlRoundTV and I wanna make sure that we get everything into the record that we should get into the record. The convening itself, first of all, I just wanna say you have a bunch of materials that you might have gotten handed, do you? Have some of you have them? If not try to get them, if you can, we made many copies. I made them color. You have this one sheet, which is the Latino-Latina Commons, Theater Commons one sheet, which basically gives our mission, how we're organized, what we intend to communicate in our initiatives. There's also a Cafe Onda one sheet and then there's a sheet that will give you a list of all the participants at the convening and a sheet that will give you the current steering committee for the LTC and the advisory committee and just right in, when you get this right in, advisory committee right in, Henry Godinez and right in Chris Diaz, who I just cajoled into being on the advisory committee over drinks last night. And I should also acknowledge that Chris was part of the original eight when we all met and then got busy, but he's still, he's on board. Okay, great. So the convening itself, you know, one of the wonderful things that I just wanna speak about is that we, you know, when Anne talks about it it all sounds very official. When the eight of us met, we were like, well, we'll do all this stuff. Yeah. And then and how around was like, okay, great. There's this grant, maybe write it. So then Plaloc wrote it and the grant and then we're like, yeah, well, we wrote a grant. Then we got the grant and then we're like, oh, now we gotta make a convening, do you know? And so many of the things, the Encuentro, which is gonna happen in 2014, the Carnival, which will happen at DePaul. I just have become a powerful believer in speaking things out loud. Because when you start saying you're gonna do it, that's how this whole thing formed. People just started saying they were gonna do it and then we called other people and said, hey, do you wanna do this? We're doing this. And they're like, okay, we'll do it with you. But it's been a lot of talking about it. And then because it's out in the world, then one kind of has to do it. The convening itself, there was about 75 participants at the convening. It was an intergenerational group. In other words, we had Luis Valdez, the founder of Teatro Campesino and his son, Kinan Valdez, who was moderating. It was a beautiful. And then we had kids that were just out of their MFA programs or didn't go to an MFA program. We had a real cross-section of generations. We also were multi, I don't wanna say, and I guess multicultural, but what I mean by that is, we had Mexicans, we had Puerto Ricans, we had Colombians, we had Cubans. We had a bunch of different, we were very, our diversity was represented in the room, as well as our aesthetic diversity, which was exciting. The purpose was really a couple, we had a couple of purposes. One was to kind of create a magnetic center for the Latino and Latina theater making community in the United States to actually put us in the same room. First time we've met since like 1980 something, since I was not even born. And this was in some ways, there had been an initiative through South Coast Rep called the Hispanic Playwrights Project that had been going on many, many years, originally founded by Jose Cruz Gonzales, and then taken over by Juliet Carillo. And through that HPP, we called it, many of us saw each other regularly once a year. Many of the Latino and Latina theater makers saw each other a lot. At least once a year we could count on it. And in that kind of informal setting, when we were all working, we were able to kind of take the temperature of the field, meet who was coming up, see what was going on, talk to each other, have drinks, but it really was a hub. And when that died, when South Coast Rep decided that they didn't need that programming anymore, it left a void. So there was still a lot, and has been so much going on regionally around the country and locally, you know, locally, but there hadn't been a moment for the community to come together. And so that was really the main purpose of the convening was to get a real cross-section generationally, aesthetically, culturally, regionally of the country of Latino and Latina theater artists together. So that was one, a magnetic center. Two, to take the temperature of the field, to really, we met in many, many different, Tanya knows, we met in many, many different groups. We met in, we had a creators meeting where the, you know, people, writers and divisors were together talking about their experience of the field right now. We had an interpreters meeting, directors and actors were talking about their experience of the field right now. We had a producers meeting. We had a pillars where it's like, you know, Jorge Huerta and Luis Valdez talking about their experience of the field in there. And then we had these conocimiento groups where like, eight of us would get together and talk about what we thought. And then we had wisdom groups, which were by generation. So all the people in their 20s were together. All the people in their 30s were together. You know, we had those conversations. Then we had these big, we had a lot of conversation is what I'm trying to say. To talk about the state of the field as it is right now, our wishes, our dreams and what we imagine might be our future. We discussed, we debate, we debated, we drank, we fought, it was good. And finally our intention was to really envision a future. How will we move this incredibly powerful historic moment forward? How would we keep this community connected and moving forward? The one of the biggest things that came out of this meeting, I'm gonna talk about a couple of big things that came out of the meeting. There was a time, we created a timeline that started I believe in the 70s, am I right? 60s, 70s? 60s? So this was created by Jorge Huerta and Juliet Carillo. And they put a couple of kind of milestones on that timeline. These were just milestones in Latino, Latina theater in the United States. And then everybody came and added. So all of us came and added. Our postcards, our bills, our reviews, our things like so-and-so got married to so-and-so. It was this amazing timeline. And you could see, this was interesting.  And that visual image was incredibly powerful. And what it tells, what it told us is that we were no longer speaking from a kind of politics of privation as a group, but actually speaking from, to some extent, a mandate. We all know that the population, the demographics of the United States are changing. We've all heard the stats. Somewhere in 2040, you know, where mixed, we're gonna be more mixed than not. Yeah, the majority is gonna be mixed culture. And I think we walked away with a mandate that as a group, we needed to, we had a responsibility to push, to invite, to cajon, to charm, to demand the American theater to reflect the changing population in a real, organic and consistent way. And that's really the kind of, I think all the initiatives come out of that idea. We discovered that we need more networking. We have all kinds of online platforms that we're gonna talk about. We discovered that we need more advocacy. But we also discovered that we have a responsibility as Latino and Latina theater-making artists to push the field forward. And Luis Valdez at one point sort of said, we are the new Americans. And it's on your little list, but I think what he means by that is, gotta look at my notes. You know, the Latino and Latina experience is always at least bi-cultural. At least bi-cultural, often tricultural, often many, many more cultures, yeah. And in a country that's moving to an increasingly mixed and a ipso facto multi-national nation, we are able to, as theater-making artists, to map a new American, to kind of remap the American dramatic narrative. We tell stories from, buy, try many culture point of view already.  It happened to be that Martin's play and Chris's play were the best plays they read. That's what I'm talking about. That the way we think, as artists, the cultures that we navigate regularly, the way in which that changes our aesthetic and how we handle narrative and form is, it provides a map for a way of thinking about what the American dramatic narrative is. And with that, I will pass on to, who's next? Oh, it's LaLoc. Yeah, hi. I'll start out with a little brief story about me. I grew up in Watsonville, California, which is an agricultural community. It was also a polycultural community. It was a community in a city defined by the waves of immigrants who came to work in the fields of Watsonville, California. And so, you know, growing up, I never knew anything but a sort of multicultural community and society and friends that I had in high school that I've got really close with. I also lived, I realized I discovered after high school that I lived 20 minutes from San Juan Bautista where at the Atacampesino is. So I actually got in my car and I drove over to Louisa's converted warehouse. And I said, I wanna work for you and I wanna learn from you. And they said, okay, there's a broom. There's a bucket with the mop. Let's get to work. And so I did that. I also, we, you know, Watsonville is a, you know, about half an hour south of the Silicon Valley. So my, you know, my education and career and my livelihood has been intertwined with the rise of Silicon Valley and technology and Apple. And certainly as I became a professional theater artist, I have utilized and been able to use technology as a tool. So one of the things that was very important for us in terms of the convening was to connect to all the regional communities that have Latino theater from across the country. So we came up with an idea of creating satellite groups to participate, to tune in, to howl around TV and watch the convening and also creating a sense of community online. Because we are in the 21st century and we have the ability to do that. So we were able to set up satellites with the help of Vijay, Vijay, Matthew and I'm not, was it Olga that was helping organize this as well, Olga Sanchez? So we set up satellite groups and one of the days of the convening was dedicated to live streaming rooms and groups from all over the country, including Miami and you were there in here in Chicago. We had Dallas, we had Los Angeles, we had New York City. New York City. And Chicago was hosted by Goodman and Teatro Luna. Yeah. Here, great. So it was this phenomenal experience and we were, for those of us, I don't know how it was for you guys at the satellites but for us in Boston seeing the multiple rooms watching us and watching each other, it was a transformative moment. There was Dallas, there was New York, there was Chicago, there was Miami, there was these screens with everybody on them, it was amazing. Right, and all of us listening and hearing about each specific community's challenges and hopes and dreams for the creation of Latino theater, how to reclaim the narrative on their stages, how to create more work, how to be more connected to each other. And so I'll talk a little bit more about the online platform of Cafe Onda but the satellite is probably gonna be a huge component moving forward so that we remain connected in these encuentros and carnivals and festivals. And also Twitter? And Twitter, oh, and Twitter. We trended. And trend, we were the number one trending, really? For a while. For a while for a couple of days. Then I think something happened. So we have a Twitter handle and people were able to use, we used the Twitter handle Cafe Onda and the idea came from La Buena Onda which is the Mexican filmmakers Guillermo del Toro, Inidato, and I'm trying to think of the other guy's name, I can't think of him. Anyway, but it means a wave forward, a movement forward and that's how the, that's how the, and we love Cafe. So we, so it made sense to create an online cafe where people can get together and discuss. But I'll talk a little bit more about that later but wanna move forward. Ricardo. Hi. It was an incredible experience that was, by the way, hosted by Emerson College. Where Jaime works, is that right? She works for Hall of Honor. For Hall of Honor. True Art. True Art, yeah. So Emerson College was an incredible host for us. We participated in their Black Box Theater. And I'm happy to say that Chicago was very well represented. With not, Theatro Vista, I was there of course and Sandra Delgado and Sandra Marquez were there from Theatro Vista. But also representing Chicago were the Urban Theater, Theatro Luna and El Poso Colectivo. So we were very well represented. Not only in Tanya, was there representing Tanya Saracho. I don't think it's one of them all. Oh my God. Yeah, and there were other people from other organizations and in the Midwest and Alta, I'm gonna talk about Alta in a little bit. Diana's there. Elaine was there, Diane was there. So we were very, very well represented. Not only in Chicago and in the Midwest. And so we were able to not only participate and give our ideas, but exchange ideas and bring them back to Chicago, which I'll talk about in a little bit in the next time around. At these type of convenings, there is a lot of talk and ideas tossed around and all. But I know that I was, by the second, I said, okay, well, this is great. This is great, but do we just walk away and say, well, that was a great experience? Where's the commitment and the follow through? And it was very well planned and executed. We were all given a Loteria card early on and we didn't know what the Loteria card was, but it was there. And at the end of the convening towards the end, we talked about pillars for the future of what we can do and should do now that we have synthesized a lot of ideas. And rather than just saying, okay, the ideas are there, each of us was asked to commit to following through with at least one of those actionable steps and signing it on the back of our Loteria card and depositing it into a basket at the end in front of everyone in silence. And everyone's saying, yes, here, I'm throwing down this card and throwing down my energy and my positiveness and everything that I've gathered here and will continue to gather and harvest to make certain that these actionable steps are done. And it's all on paper. So there's going to be a follow through and an accountability, which I love because as I said, a lot of times there's just a lot of talking and no follow through. So that was wonderful. I do want to mention that there was a, this was over Halloween, all saints, the other Los Muertos weekend. So we had an ofrenda that we all offered a gift to the ofrenda at the beginning and at the end of the convening, we took our gift from the altar and then passed it on to someone who had participated and each of us was given one as well. And I'm mentioning that because I would like to read a reflection. We were all asked to write a reflection. About our experience there. And I'd like to read the reflection that I wrote because I didn't know what I was going to write. I said, how in the world can you absorb all of this that we just experienced and what were we getting, 500 words or something or other? And I've written maybe two poems in my life, this one and one other one. And this one just came. But I would like to read it and indulge in it. I'd like to read it because it does reflect a lot of the activity and a lot of the future. If so, if I may, this is what I submitted. And there are a lot of references to what was presented here. I was invited to walk on Golden Streets. Boston, a city which Emerson wrote, Old Europe Growns opened its strong Anglo arms and welcomed Latinos and Latinas to a convening, a common creation. Day one, I step into the black box, the Golden Streets. Old European groans are drowned by the laughter of the new Americans.  The creators, the interpreters, the designers, the actors, the scholars, mix, collide, embrace and merge. We come with an offering to the altar of our ancestors, a photo here, a book there, a hat, a program, a shirt, rice, a spinning top, each with its own story, each with its own penetrating emotion. And now we drink, we eat, we connect. Day two, conocimientos and circles. If experience is the best teacher, it sits in the room. Information is tossed, mutual struggles, celebrated wins, visionary ideas. The buzzing energy from my conocimiento is almost drowned by the surging roar of the others. This is the howl round. Share to share, comfort. Circles and outer circles are formed as we weave in and out of our musical chairs. We listen, we absorb, we digest. A legend talks about heritage. A pioneer speaks of a movement and its growth. A young voice asks a question. We talk of the past, of goals, of needs, of the future. Day three, strategy and next steps. Loteria cards become amulets. We eagerly rush to fill our tablas. El soldado, the soldiers who marched before us. La estrella, the mentors who guide us. El arrol, the knowledge that we share and cultivate. La rosa, the sweetness of nature, of poetry, of theater, of art. El sol, the muscular sun that emblazed these golden streets. We reach beyond the naked brick wall of this black box and stream to Miami, New York, Dallas, Los Angeles and sweet home Chicago to the outer reaches of this new America where tributaries are explored, where flags are planted, where blood is drawn, where the seeds in the harvest support us all. Talk becomes action. We commit to each other and ourselves. In silence, we sacrifice our amulets and gift our offerings. 2045 is upon us. It is within us. It carries pride, responsibility and accountability. There are many before you and after you, but today it is you. Today you tell your story. Lift the power and the possibilities. Discover, stand and witness. Give voice to the stories. Sing the songs. Dance the rhythm of our forefathers. Walk on golden streets.  And there was no sign that said leave your ego at the doors because I don't think they were even brought to Boston so we couldn't leave it at the door. And we walked these golden streets and we invite all of you to walk the golden streets with us. It's beautiful. Thank you, Ricardo. OK. Anne, would you like to talk a little bit about the Encuentro? Yeah, thank you. That was beautiful, Ricardo. Thank you so much. Yeah, so just really briefly, so our next event is going to be in the fall of 2014 in Los Angeles. It's called El Encuentro, The Encounter. It'll be 10 companies from around the country coming to Los Angeles to present their work to one another in a three to four week period. So it'll be an amazing sharing of new works, one work per company, 10 companies, one theater, three or four weeks. So it'll be about aesthetics, seeing what the field is offering right now. And also it'll be a chance to have what we call tertulias. So discussions. We'll be hosting each day discussions about aesthetics, about the field, about art making, about how do we as communities come together and support these companies. And that will be taking place, like I said, at LATC. And I want to mention Jose Luis Valenzuela is the director of LATC, as well as Chantal Rodriguez is his mighty associate there. And they're going to be helming the efforts in LA and will be coming together there and really want it to be a community-wide event. So whereas Boston was a small event, about 75 due to our grant recommendations, this is going to be a much larger, expansive conversation, sharing of work, and really so we can encounter and encuentro those folks who are making work across the country. And are there kind of ballpark dates for that? Help me out here, folks. October. Yeah, October 2014. And this is for Latino companies or individual artists that could apply and there's a process to... Right, they're actually going to be for companies. And so right now the steering committee is forming a committee to begin to select the pieces and to put the call out to the world, I guess. So that's the right in process as we speak. But the idea is that people will submit proposals and then they'll choose 10 companies to bring work to LA. Fantastic, awesome, thank you. So these are the outcomes. These are, now we're talking a little bit more specifically about some of these action steps that Chicago was talking about. Tolok, did you want to talk a little bit about, oh no, maybe it's Lisa, I'm sorry. First about the cut in the bottom. These are the entornces, these are the entornces. And I should say, yeah, these are the entornces. I should say the interesting thing about the encuentro is that it's, LITC is hosting it and they're shouldering it, but the selection committee will be Latino Latina Theater Commons. So we made up of kind of four members of the steering committee that will select the pieces. Yeah, and this is the Commons approach and you're gonna see it throughout and I'm gonna move to the Carnaval, but I also wanted to mention something that I, it's important to know that the 75 people that were at this convening and those that were representing in the satellite groups are delegates, are delegates to our communities. And that anybody who wants to join up should let people know because the Commons is the Commons, anybody can be involved, there's not a club. Yeah, it's the Commons.  And Tanya and Elaine started talking about, well, you know at Victory Gardens when they did that first ignition there was such this kind of sense of energy, it was like a carnival. And I was like, oh, a Carnaval. So we decided to make a Carnaval of new work that will be hosted by the theater school at DePaul University, but will be produced by the Latino Latina Theater Commons. And in this event there will be eight pieces, two from the north, two from the south, two from the east, from the west, we're big on the four directions. Eight pieces, they might be plays or they might be devised pieces that will be presented in reading format or if it's a devised piece, whatever the equivalent would be of a reading format. There will also be three master directors that are brought in through Latino. We wanted to make sure we were representing directors as well as writers. So three directors being brought in from around the country who will direct a group of, each directed group of students, DePaul students and in a 15 minute devised piece. So those will be shown. And then we're gonna have booths. And the booths are Teatro Luna has a booth, Teatro Vista has a booth, Urban Theater has a booth. And a booth is basically, hey, you can use, these are the public spaces, you can do whatever you want in this timeframe. It might be a 24 hour theater event, it might be a playwright slam, it might be an installation, I don't know, it's up to each of the organizations here in Chicago. And then we're gonna have a bobbing for scripts. We wanted to make sure that people had access to the scripts or maybe the, you know, whatever the video is from devised pieces. We want to maybe, this is right now, and we're thinking about this, but put everything on flash drives, all the finalists, you know, for this on flash drives and then have a place where we bob for scripts. So everybody can walk away with the work itself. Yeah, so it's not just something you see. And those are some of the ideas around the carnival, but the whole idea is we're gonna take over the theater school and like run a muck in that fabulous new building and make some really amazing work happen. That's gonna be probably in July. And we are hoping to partner with The Good Minute and also with Victory Gardens, because they may be running Ignition at the same time, there may be something running here at the same time. So we hope to get like little trolley buses. That would be a good thing. So Chicago, as Ricardo said, Chicago really emerged. There was a lot of us there. We really emerged as a, you know, there's LA in terms of, there's LA in the west, there's Chicago in the Midwest and there's New York and Washington and the East Coast. And then of course Miami, but we really, I think the carnival will help kind of in the heartland of the country keep the beat going and we hope it will be a biannual festival of new work. So Lisa, so the booths, would they be specifically for Chicago companies? But the scripts or the projects could be national. So the scripts will be national. And the directors national. Yeah, the scripts national, the eight pieces will be national and then the directors will be national and then the booths will be local. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Tla-Loc? Yes. Yeah. Talk a little bit about Cafe Onda. All right, Cafe Onda. This is what you came here for, right? No, kidding. So there's two ways to find us, which is we already have a website. It's CafeOnda.com, but we also are linked to HowlRound.  If you don't, please do. But we have a little hyperlink that lists all the articles and blogs and journal entries related to everything that happened with the, the Inguentro in Boston, but also for, it's to keep everyone updated about how to find out more information regarding these future events. I'll talk a little bit about what we are and I'll read a little bit from the mission, which is that we are an online platform of Latino theater commons that serves as a digital hub for community and conversations about the current state of Latino theater in the 21st century. Cafe Onda contains articles, blogs, and live streaming of theater events and is linked to HowlRound, an online journal of the theater commons. In using a commons-based approach, we have created an online mechanism for community source contributions and feedback through Cafe Onda. And the idea behind this, and this was really important, we wanted to create and connect geographically and artistically isolated Latino artists very much so that, in the past we've been, because of the loss of the annual, new play initiatives that happened in the late nineties into the 2000s, there wasn't really a way to get together. And so we wanted to create a 24-7 presence where we can continually connect with each other. We wanted to promote deeper dialogue with non-Latinas and increase cultural understanding about who we are as artists. We wanted to be able to quickly address misrepresentations of our cultural, of our cultures on stage, both intentional and unintentional. We wanted to inspire powerful, diverse Latino voices in the polis of American theater, including greater access to productions and leadership positions. And we wanted to broaden the recognition of a canon of Latino theater. And some of the things that, in terms of what we're looking for, in terms of what kind of material you want to post on Caffeona, it's pretty much, it's wide open at the moment. I mean, Grigaro, I want to post your poem as part of the essay. Thank you. I know that there are several individuals here have come up to me who said they would love to write something and you're more than welcome to. We want to open it up to also, you know, non-Latinos to talk about Latino work because we are sort of examining our aesthetic and our field and what we're trying to say now in the 21st century. And some of the questions that came up and really some of the things that we're looking at right now is what is Latinidad exactly? Whether it's hemispheric or it's Iberian based and what does it mean? And is there an aesthetic that we can define and share that isn't tied or defined by a dominant culture's dramaturgy? How are we to promote and share that work with the next generation of Latino artists? How are we supporting structures to develop new work? How can senior Latino theater makers be encouraged to mentor emerging artists? So we want to make that information available and clear to folks who visit our website. Some of the current initiatives right now as we are continually to develop a presence is we're developing an editorial board. So we intend to have several members of from around the country scholars, academics, working professionals to serve on the editorial board to envision and build a website. We want to establish Cafe Onda as a self-sustaining standalone sister site to HowlRound. So right now we're connected to HowlRound but at some point we are currently trying to raise funding to so we can have a standalone site. We also, we're trying to promote the use of the hashtag Cafe Onda on Twitter. And that is a big, huge thing that happens during the conference and also whenever anything that happens related to Latino theater we want people to go on Twitter and use the hashtag Cafe Onda to talk about those issues. And I'm getting the five minute morning. But if you want, yeah I know. Okay, so if you want to pitch or if you want to get in touch with us you can send it to email addresses cafeonda at howlround.com or editor at cafeonda.com. So those two please. Great, thank you. Ricardo? Yes, very briefly. But first three people have explained hashtag to me and I still don't know. So please help me, just grab me and try to. It's a way of connecting the narrative thread. No, I know what the hashtag is and I've heard explanations, I still don't know. At any rate, the future for theater here in Chicago I can only speak with the Atravisa at this point. I'll say real quickly that we are participating in something that came to our attention at the Commons 3030 project headed by Caridad Speech and we are now looking at plays that were submitted by Playwrights Generosity, four or five of whom are in this room. And the idea is to have 30 play readings over 30 days and we're committing to three or four where the venues can be almost anywhere giving credit to the Playwrights and of course the Commons and HowlRound and recording five minutes of it at least. So things like that I know are gonna be going on all over the States and certainly here in Chicago with the Atravisa as well. Tanya Sinatra and I hubbubbed right away when we got back full of energy and talked about how ALTA could get involved. ALTA is an organization that Tanya and I founded here in Chicago standing for Alliance of Latino Theater Latino Latino Theater Artists in Chicago and we're a service organization that helps to promote, foster, mentor theater artists here in Chicago. And we have scheduled right now a town hall meeting where we're gonna call for all Latinos here in Chicago artists to meet on January the 11th and have a convening of our own. We'll be talking about what happened in Boston and sharing that as well but also sharing ideas that we have and seeing how we can divide some actionable steps and proceed with them. In addition, ALTA is also having a December, winter social gathering on December the 29th so be on the lookout for that. You can get it on Facebook or at ALTA. What is our website address? ALTA what? .org? .org. .org. So look for that and many more exciting things but we're gonna open the floor I think at this point. Is that correct? Close, I gotta talk about the Fortness Center really quickly. Please. This is gonna be very, very fast. This is an idea that came out of one of the wisdom groups when we were talking about like we need something like the O'Neill Institute. We need like our own like there's an O'Neill thing where we need something. And somebody said, it was actually Lou Moreno said it should be the Fortness Center. And so this is a long-term initiative it's a long-term initiative but we're committed to the idea of creating a Maria Irene Fortness Center for the Advancement of Latino Latina Theater within the next decade. Short and sweet. Fabulous thank you. On that note we'd love to open it up for any questions and then as we go along we'll also take some questions or comments that come via Twitter and hashtag and all that stuff. Okay, so any questions? Comments? Don't be shy.  We're gonna give you a microphone so it'll be on the. As somebody who attended it was such an amazing weekend and I think the thing that struck me the most actually there were two things. And one was the idea of mentorship and how we were asked to not leave Boston without getting in contact with someone that you would like to mentor or that you would like them to mentor you. And what I found amazing about the weekend is that I'd looked to my left and there was Luis Valdez and I thought man I'm in this room with this legend and that makes me feel so young. And then I'd look over and I'd see some kid and I'd think that makes me feel so old. And but what I found is that I wanted my mentors to be people who are younger than I am because I feel like there's so much to learn in this idea of cross-generational learning. I find so exciting. The other thing that really for me lit a fire under me was when this amazing woman named Olga that I got up to speak and she's a funder not an artist and she was talking about she stood up and she said yeah it's really great that you guys are touchy-feely and talking about your artist stuff but you really as somebody who's been funding for a long time you need to understand the numbers. And the numbers are that of the monies that go to non-profits 2% go to Latino causes and that 2% too includes education, health and the arts.  We have it's no longer about please help us it's we are the new Americans. It is now time for the American Theater Landscape to reflect that we are Americans. We're part of it. So thank you. Thank you Sandra. Thank you Sandra. Any other questions, comments? Isaac anything on Twitter? We do have a question from Twitterverse. This comes from Alexander Krapivkin. I hope I pronounced that correctly and this person's question is do you potentially see Cafe Onda supporting other ethnicities in America to step up and create their own work in theater? Awesome. Can I jump in and give it to you Talok? Yeah go ahead. I mean I know that HowlRound's mission is ideally they have we have a bunch of these do you know what I mean? Eventually there's a Latino group and there's any other group that they're kind of working with but I think HowlRound is hoping to foster communities as a commons and then ideally maybe we're all one big group but what about Cafe Onda? I mean in terms of the genesis of Cafe Onda I feel like we're inextricably linked to many other different initiatives that have emerged in the past couple of years actually like 50, 50 in 2020 which is to have you know half our plays produced on stages written by women and also the Asian American Theater Alliance which has slowly but surely been growing in terms of their vocal demonstrations against stereotypes in Asian work and more diversity on New York stages as well. So I feel like we're partners in that cause to reflect the diversity of our country on our stages and our stories and our narratives and I think there's room for that, definitely. Fantastic, thank you. Any other questions? Juan? We're gonna get your mic, Juan. Everybody. I guess my question is going by the last time there was a joining, 1987? 1986. I wish I could hear, I wish I knew what was said then of this is what we envision in the future because I'd be curious if we are in a very good place or if we're very behind. So I guess to then jump it forward I'm curious with you guys if we went ahead, what is that, so that was like maybe 15 years from now where would you guys to put it out there as you said earlier, where do you guys look at it as to say that would be a great place to be. What about you? In other words, what do you think in 15 years, what would you like to see? Well, because it's not, we're not like, it's a commons, we're not like, you're an arm over, you're an amen. Well, I mean, we talked, when you had that first, the Paul one, I think it was before he left for the summit. We're gonna take over Dominic's. I, that's me, his space is available now. It's gonna be Mariano's, I just heard about that. But just inside information. But I would say is the freedom for Latino artists to just be an artist, you know, and I have obviously that tag of being Latino, it's gonna be we are artists, and therefore there's a free range of everyone making financially living off of being an artist. So for me, I know I talked about that, that time of, we're in a different place now than from 15 years ago, where now financially there's more theaters involved who are producing more Latino work, and therefore you can live comfortably, and then you wanna continue living. You don't wanna drop down. And I'd hope that 15 years from now, it gets just even bigger into funding, that's the 2% that was just shared by Sandra, is a lot higher, so that there's more going out to the people that deserve it. And I think I'd love for it to continue of just Latino work being like more opportunities for Latino directors, and then even for Latino work to be directed by people, maybe we're not Latino, just for a different perspective on the work. So that's my first impulse of what I look at. It doesn't sound so grand, I guess. No, it's great. What's interesting is if I, you know, I just came out of a meeting with Henry and Rock recently, and I think that the Goodman Theater, what I love about what's happened is they had been doing this festival for a while, but then have moved into the idea, well, we don't just wanna give the impression that we do our Latino theater in a festival in the summer, but we wanna integrate throughout the season. And if you look at this festival that wasn't even intended to be a Latino festival, it just happened to be because Chris and Martín rocked the plays, that really that's what the world looks like, that the world is always already taken for granted, multicultural, always already. Yeah, that's what I would like to see in 15 years. And we're the leadership, I think, we're the leadership of the theaters. We've got great leadership right now in the TCG and on ATTA, the leaders are all Latino actually right now, Diane Rodriguez with TCG and... But TCBadra with ATTA. But in the theaters themselves, where you see a real mix of people from many backgrounds running the theaters, because I think when that happens, you're gonna see already the stories reflecting the rest of the nation. But until that happens, I don't know that we will. Good, thank you, Juan. Any other questions? Yes? Gattles. Gattles, we'll get you up. Hey, how's it going? All right, I'm not gonna do any karaoke, but I feel like that the artistic side and the work side is well represented. I'm curious, what kind of conversations came up in terms of outreach for attending the communities that actually need to see these works? What initiatives, what thoughts came out of that commons in terms of all the people who come to see the shows that I am in are usually fellow artists or people who have a little bit more education and wealth that are able to go out and have access to these works. I mean, the new stages is great because it's all free, but in terms of outreach to make sure that the people who need to see these works to experience these stories, like what is, did anything come up out of the commons to kind of address that? It's a great question. What were their conversations, Sandra? Sandra, let's get you the mic again, so all the world can hear you. Oh. I think that's a really great question and it certainly came up in some of our groups as discussion. One of the things that came up was the fact that we are products now, especially younger generation of Reagan economics and that because the arts started getting cut, our culture in general, not just Latino culture, but all of the American culture is not being exposed to the arts the way it was before. So we aren't training audiences like we used to. And so we did talk about that, that we can't look at ourselves as being in a vacuum, but that we are part of the larger landscape. And some of the groups we're talking about, real women have curves, Josefina Loves. Yeah, we're talking about how in Boyle Heights she is in that community and really working to train, to train even the little kids how to produce their own work so that they grow up to be theater artists and how it's a real community involvement. I found that exciting. I found that what Jesus Reyes is doing with East LA Rep, yeah, is amazing how he's involving the community. And they no longer call it a theater company, they are a community group that happens to do some theater. And so for me, I found it inspiring that there are different ways to look at it, that we aren't just artists, but we are members of a community and a country. So was that around the particular question of audience development and creating? It came up within the conversation about, it wasn't necessarily audience development. Like I honestly, there were so many different small groups that we broke into, I can't remember which one it was in particular. It may have been access, and I think we also talked about, Regina Garcia. We also talked a lot about a mutual concern for companies all over the country, which I was relieved to hear. The difficulty sometimes of getting Latino board members because they tend to want to go to the bigger theater companies and not work so much with the smaller companies. And I was really relieved to hear that it wasn't just a Theatruvista issue, but it was an issue across the country. This is such a great thing, I just want to jump in on this, because Luis Alfato of course, does so much work whenever he's working on a play. He goes right out into the community. He goes up to the box office and he's talked to everybody at the box office and he goes out into the community. He talked about what he does. When he shows up, he does a lot of legwork in order to create a bridge, to create a bridge to communities that may not have had access, may not feel welcome, may not feel comfortable. And I think, I thought about that, and I was up at Milwaukee Rack basically because they wanted to talk to me about how can they increase their Latino audiences, which they should do, and I'm really excited. And I said, well, you need to get people up there, Tanya's in town, and people, we have to go out into the community because you can't have, I don't know who outreach person who is not Latino, go into a Spanish-speaking community. You know what I mean? We need to go into the communities in order to create bridges, I think that's the first step because often in places, not so much here, but like Milwaukee Rap, it's really, he said, we don't want to just be the kind of great white theater, we want to be Milwaukee Rap. And so I think part of it is, I think it's a little bit on us because we are Latinos and we are theater people. So did you ask them what their staff looks like and what their artistic, I, well, would that be a good question? I did ask them. And then maybe even follow up with, what does your own backyard look like? Alvaro's here from Milwaukee. I think that we have to maybe sometimes seize those opportunities as educational opportunities. There's also, like, just to bring up a couple of examples, there was another example that came up with Elisa Alvarado, who's the artistic director of The Atravision to kind of like turn everything upside down. They have moved away from the subscription model or producing a season model and really focusing in on doing very specific projects. And they did that for the first time with Macario, which was a world premiere by an adaptation of the B. Traven novel adapted by Evelina Fernandez. And it was their biggest selling show. And they think that is the model that works for them because they can actually target the specific show and put all their resources behind the show and target the specific community. And the other thing is that, especially, for those of us who have been freelance Latino artists, there's never been a time where we haven't been asked, well, how do we reach out to the Latino community? That's always in our background minds. Like I have never, like the Luis Valdesco, if the people don't come to the theater, theater has to go out to the people. That has always been like my mantra. So when I'm doing like, what about the spoonful in Iowa? You know, it is my endeavor and initiative to go out and reach out to all the Latinos within the Iowa City region to come and experience this work because it is an opportunity to see themselves on stage, to see their stories. And so, you know, and Chris Diaz with this, I don't, sorry, I don't mean to use you, Chris, but you know, every time you, like early on when you were like talking to theaters and like they're asking you like, how do you reach out to like younger communities, hip-hop community, Latino community to come out and see your shows? It's like pulling teeth sometimes because you can't do this with like one shot, one show. You have to be, you have to make a commitment to develop and produce the work annually. Do we have any time? Can I say one more thing? We have a couple of minutes. I just wanna say one more thing on that. It was interesting and the gentleman that I spoke to in Milwaukee Rupp was great. He was lovely and I think the commitment was real. I think there, you know, it's, one thing that I hope the Latino Theater Commons does is also serve as a resource for folks who want to kind of change how they're doing stuff. I mean, he's like, well, you know, we wanna do it, but we're afraid we're gonna do it wrong so we haven't done it yet. And I'm like, okay, well, you will do it wrong, but you should still do it. And then, you know, he's like, well, and you know, we gotta find the right time. I said, well, yeah, it's like having a baby. There's your, you know, you just gotta jump. And it's scary, it's scary, but I think, you know, how can we also, looking, you know, helping audiences, but how can we help theater makers who have the right, have the intention but are unfamiliar, uncomfortable, not sure, a little timid, do you know, how can we serve as a resource to them as well? Yes, a question over here. Sandra and Henry touched on the idea of people who aren't artists supporting, you know, whether it's a funder or people who are working in administrative roles or administrative artistic roles.  You're talking about how to engage the Latino community, but I think there's also the theater community, and I think that's a great resource. I'd be curious to know if that's been a conversation you guys have been having. I'll just jump in really quickly. For our convening, we had a number of committees that were responsible for the planning, the programming, the outreach, and the fundraising. And so we really called upon folks with expertise in the community in those specific areas, and that really helped us make this event happen. So I think everyone's minds to how do we pool our resources and how do we reach out to folks who may not be either artists or scholars, but may have development experience, staff experience, et cetera, to really kind of come together and empower us as a whole. So we have them that sum up. We really want to do more of that. That's great. Yes, Isaac? We have, excuse me. Goodness, these chairs, y'all. So we have one more question from the Twitterverse. Okay. This is from Maricela Treviño-Orta. Maricela! And I think this is a great question to sort of culminate this convening. And the question is, what about radical hospitality, making theater accessible financially to people who may not otherwise have those available experiences? Henry? Ha ha ha! The Goodman will pay for it all. Ha ha ha! Yeah! No, I'm just kidding, Rock. Honestly. No, there he goes. Say it and it happens. He's the light blue. No, you know, the truth is, when during the Latino Theater Festival, our ticket prices are much reduced. And I think at The Goodman, we've come to understand that over the years, that when you are developing an audience, you need to make sure that they feel welcome in every way, not only in what you put on stage, but the way they're treated from the moment they walk in the door to the price, you know? Because here at The Goodman, if you want to pay $65 for a ticket, you can do that. You're not used to doing that. It's shocking. So definitely, I think that you need to be aware of that and look at how high our prices are for new stages this weekend, and they're sold out. So, you know, and I think that once you begin to develop that audience, then you can begin to negotiate those prices, but I absolutely think it's important. I just loved Mixed Blood's kind of call to arms on HowlRound, I think it was two weeks ago, right? Which is like, everybody can do a week, you know? Maybe not, but can you do a week where it's free? Where it's just free, and anybody can come. Or pay what you can. Or pay what you can.  So that idea of radical hospitality, I think is crucial. Radical hospitality. Well, I've been asked to wrap this up, and since we've invoked his name several times, Luis Valdez, I just have a quick anecdote that I think is perfect for where we are. When we did Zoot Suit 10, 12 years ago at the Old Goodman, it was the last production at the Old Goodman. And I'll never forget, opening night, Luis Valdez took me aside at the parties like, Henry, don't let this be like it was when I was a child, growing up, you know, in the fields, and where they would only let us, Mexican kids, swim in the swimming pool, the public pool, the day before they drained it.  I thought, oh, because this is the last show at the Old Goodman.  But now I sit here and I look at new stages, I look at the work on our stages this weekend, you know, by all these amazing playwrights, Latino playwrights that mostly just happened to be the best plays that Tanya, you know, wanted to showcase in this festival. And I think, well, there you go. The pool is open 24-7. Thank you. To everybody. Thank you all. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.


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