Thank you, Peter. That's great. And what we're going to do now is I'm going to ask Etienne, if you can rejoin us as well, please. And also we're going to be joined by a third panelist, Frédéric Lé, who is the Technology Strategist at DXC's Corporate Technology Office. Frédéric is leading the development of DXC's new Agile Architecture Framework and has over 25 years experience with significant expertise in technology, strategy, enterprise architecture, lean, agile and digital. So, Frédéric, if you can join us as well, please. And thank you both Etienne and Peter. It takes a short while for a panelist to join us. So, while Frédéric is coming on, we had a question came in early on, which was, Frédéric's with us now. Well, let me ask this one anyway. It came in for you, Etienne, and it was in French, I'm afraid. So, humor me with my French. But it's... It is still a challenge for us, which I think means, have you integrated SAPSA in information security steps as well with an agile approach, because it's still a challenge for us? Is that roughly right? Yeah, I think it's good translation. What is at stake when you completely transform the model is not only security. We had to face many challenges around the architecture, the support function and the security and the data. For these four elements, we had to reinvent the way people were coordinated together. For security, it was not a big issue for us because the security aspects are managed outside of the IT departments. The IT department is responsible to develop the new patterns, to put them in production and to support what is in production. But the infrastructure itself in terms of security is managed by another team, which is at group level, which has followed as well an agile transformation without to dramatically change their processes. So it was not one of our concerns. We had the biggest concern about the production itself, the follow up of the production. And I think we managed that very properly by putting in place these leaks. I have talked about this leak mechanism, which is the way to steer the transversal aspects between the different tribes. We have a leak for the architecture. A leak is mandatory in our organization to belong to a leak for a tribe is mandatory. So they have to nominate people to belong to this leak and we have three that are mandatory. We have the production, we have the architecture and now we have the craftsmanship as well because we thought that we had to reinforce the craftsmanship aspects. These are the three leaks that are mandatory in our environment. But to answer the question in itself, security was not in our remit during the transformation. Okay. Thank you Etienne. So welcome Frederick. We've heard from both Etienne and Peter sharing their experience inside their organizations. How does what you've heard there relate to the open agile architecture standard from the open group that you've been so instrumental in driving? First of all, thank you Etienne and Peter for those great presentation. I would say that many of the theme topics you talked about actually are also covered in the open agile architecture and I will maybe focus on a few highlights. First of all, I can see that customer experience, which is one of our first axiom is really extremely important both for Société Générale and Fidelity. The entire transformation ranging from the way objective are defined with the objective and key result, which were mentioned by the two presenters, plus the whole transformation of the organization toward agility, the governance, the mindset and so forth is also very important. Also architecture, which comes as an important theme and is recognized as one of the discipline that not only IT, but also the business needs to understand is also great and we'll finish by that last point about platforms. And I think alongside with what Peter said, platform is becoming more and more important for digital transformation and definitely it's going to be an area of growth for the next generation of agile architecture. So that's in a nutshell and would be much more to say, but I think it's the important highlights. Thank you. Thank you, Frederic. That's great. So let's go over a question for Peter then you're on mute right now, Peter, but have you have you borrowed any practices from an agile scale process framework and if yes, which and if not, why? Yeah, it's a great question.  And, and, and I say implicitly because one of our overarching aspirations was to be really heavily tool driven. And so, you know, as I mentioned agile craft right which got acquired by Atlassian and is now called Giro line. You know, Giro line really implements safe. Right. And I say many of the principles that safe, particularly from managing holistically at a portfolio level. And so, from that perspective, you know, we absolutely do.  We've had an organization now maybe about two and a half years into our transformation, but literally, you know, educates and, and on boards, domains and tribes, etc. with that tool. So, yes, via the tool, you know, one of the things, and I'll just say one more thing, John, with one is one of the things that we wanted to be really, really careful about is, somebody had tried our job before, from the IT side of the house. And we really wanted this journey in the transformation, not to be viewed as a technology only thing, but really as a set of enabling, you know, practices, patterns and processes intended as driving the value stream. And so we've been very careful not to overemphasize the technology dimension of the enablement, but rather the value of the associated process. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. So, question coming here. What changes in, go to you first, Etienne, I think, what changes in management systems, planning or budgeting practices were most challenging? And, and specifically, was any area team or group more difficult to change, either from a cultural point of view or a process point of view, in terms of decision making or ownership? A lot. Let's take a question one by one. We, in terms of budgeting, we've changed everything. We've broken the per project budgeting process. It was a, I can tell you, within the investment banking previously, during the summer, you had a period of time, maybe other companies know this period of time, where you prepare the budget for the next year, which was a nightmare. It's the, it's a race where everyone wants to select many projects. Of course, you select this amount of project under project, when you will have only 20 selected or 100 million euros that you need when you will only have 20. It was a nightmare, this process. We've broken that. We, we switched to capacity management. Capacity management means that now the budgeting process is really top done. It comes from the management, discussing the top management of the investment banking, discussing with the top manager of the business, deciding where are the objectives. And depending on the objectives and the main area where we need to invest, they allocate the budget for the year. Irrespective of, it's an irrespective, of course there's a discussion, but it's irrespective of the list of a project that you can select during the summer. So first of all, we switched to capacity management. Once this budget is given to the tribe, it's a given budget for one year. It does not change. It is not because you will have a new project at the beginning of the year coming from the Fed or coming from whoever, that you will have more budget. You will have to really, really prioritize inside your backlog. And then we've switched second element. We switched to resource-based management because now not only it's a capacity-based approach with fixed budgets, but we determine a number of FT full-time equivalents at the beginning of the year. So we give you a number of heads that you will have. So you will not play with the budget by trying to do, oh, if I do that in India, if I do this here, et cetera, I try to do a mix to arrange with the request I have. No, we give you a fixed frame, and in this frame, you are forced to prioritize. That's the key change that we've made. And then who were the more difficult staff to change? I would say, first of all, for these processors, it was a long, long journey. We wanted to switch to capacity management one year after the start of the transformation. In 2018, we only switched last year, so we've lost one year because the structure was not ready. And then we had, I would say, the second one, so top management, and second one are, I would say, the transversal functions of the activities. We are the very big support from the beginning, from the market activities, the activities with the trader in front of the market. They saw their interest directly of transforming the IT, et cetera. But when you impact transversal functions like the compliance, like the risk departments, et cetera, departments that are living by asking many tribes to do many things, they are very difficult to convince that it is their interest as well to switch to this model, which is, by nature, aligned with the business, with the core business. Okay, thank you. I'm going to ask a question of Frederick, if I may. You stressed, and it came out in the presentations, and you just stressed in your brief summary of the open agile architecture standard, the importance of platform is, you know, in a digital agile transformation. What do you think Frederick are the critical success factors to shift toward a platform driven enterprise? There's one thing that caught my attention in Peter's presentation is that idea of city planning applied to platform. And the reason why I'm linking that to your question, Steve, is that when you create platforms, you have a coordination challenge, because that platform is only going to be successful if it meets somehow internal demand and if it's used. And frankly, that coordination challenge cannot only be addressed by either a top down approach. The generic platform that I mandated by the top may not meet the needs of the folks who are supposed to use them. But on the other hand, if you do not define a minimum set of standards of way of approaching it, then you will result into a mess. So navigating between those two problems is probably a big challenge. Peter, I would suspect that you've got to also insight into that one because I saw in your presentation that you're quite advanced on that one. Yeah, no, no, absolutely, Frederick, you're 100% right. I mean, the fundamental issue is, and I think that this is the, you know, one of the key learnings from the CSPs, right, cloud service providers, but they're very opinionated about their managed services. And there's a reason why they are, and quite frankly, if one pays attention, one can leverage tremendous benefit from those architectures. And so we realize that we have to be very opinionated about the standards and practices, etc, etc.  And what's ironic about that is the very first one, you know, is actually rather trivial but rather difficult for those platforms, which is, can the consumers of your platform actually utilize it without talking to you, IE, like a managed service. Now for many IT built platforms within organizations, that's absolutely not true, right.  So duplication of capabilities, right, you know, is really easy to occurs very easily in organizations. And so we wanted, again, to be very opinionated about that, that we had a construct IE, this logical grouping of capabilities, and that we were going to use the platform construct as a forcing function for that rationalization, you know, so that we didn't have duplicative capabilities within silos, etc, etc, etc. Great, thank you.


Social justice through legal services is not only one of the aspects, beyond that social justice always plays a pivotal role. And the journey within the social justice is not after the formulation of the constitution, but it goes beyond that, even prior to that. And when we were talking about, as we have seen how the social justice evolved with the flux of time, we requested Mr. Dr. Subramanya was already shared few insights on different topics on our platform. And he always helps us to connect with persons who have immense knowledge. And today we are being joined by Ma'am Vidya Silvani, who is an advocate and also a visiting faculty to the CMR University of Legal Schools, Bangaluru. And since the long vacations are starting, I will not take much time. I will request sir to give the few thoughts and then we will take session on the social justice through legal services. Over to you sir. Very good evening to all of you, Mr. Vikas and this team in particular. The concept of social justice is not a new doctrine. It was there earlier as well. And if you go through the Amurabian Code, a reduction of the court fee or the court fee charged to the poor was much lower than the court fee which was charged to the other communities or the other class of people. So that means the very concept of social justice was prevalent, even during the time of BC. And at a later stage it was continued by the emperors of the time who ruled India from time to time. Now we come back come to the period, the period, the adoption of the constitution of the state of India itself. Now the Government of India after getting the independence was able to have a constitutional committee. And this committee is known as the drafting committee for the adoption of a new constitution for the state of India. And these drafts spent over 200 people thought what type of constitution we should have. And having deliberated almost nearly two plus years, they ultimately adopted a constitution for the state of India. Now the constitution of India or the constitution which is given to ourselves by the people of this country. So we have given a constitution of our own. And when we have given a constitution of our own, what type of justice we should have. First is justice social, justice economic, justice political. So these are the three aspects which is being harbored upon by the preamble to the constitution of India itself. So social justice and the achievement of or the realization of the social justice is one of the sineqs went on, which is being remember thought of by thought by the framers of the constitution of this country. Now that afterwards the constitution came in. And when we speak about a bit of the constitution itself, we have what we know as the chapter on fundamental rights in part three of the constitution. That afterwards we have a chapter which is one as part four, which is the direct to principle state policy. Now the very objective of the adoption of part four from 35 onwards up to article 50 is to realize that the state of India should become an egalitarian society.  The government of India has adopted various measures for most of the writers, the area of constitutional law, but we call it the format you write says between 1950 to 1990. We went to the extent of pointing out, remember, you cannot go to the court of law for the enforcement of what we call is part four of the constitution, but then a series of decisions have come up before the court of law. And in these good decisions, the court pointed out, it is a just right to the people. And this just right to the people who are enunciated in part of the power of the constitution can be enforced to anywhere. That is where one of the greatest thinkers and a freedom fighters and a liberal thinker who championed the cause of human rights in the state of United States went to the extent of declaring a threat to justice anywhere. Is a threat to injustice everywhere. So that means an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice throughout the world that has to be remember contained that was the message that was given under the constitution of India. The constitution came into force, and the constitution became functional. But then the law commission of India submitted a report in the year 1958. In the year in its report, which submitted to the government of India went to the extent of pointing out legal aid to the poorest of the people who are not socially advantages who are not in a position to fight a case on their own, who cannot because of literacy or ignorance are not in a position to present themselves must be protected by the law. This is one of the mandates the constitution under the direct coup and so state policy. So when this was done members of the Indian community or the lawmakers were thinking how best it can be introduced. And this could not be introduced for several years, but then the 42 second amendment came into force in 1976. The 42nd amendment when it came into force, it amended article 39 because of the constitution of India. So by way of an amendment article 39 a was introduced into the constitution article 39 a of the constitution simply points out the people who are not in a position to protect themselves are to be legally protected. So justice must be given. They should be in a position to approve the court of law and the court should be in a position to render justice. So as remember the principle be quality as enshrined in article 14 of the constitution. Remember is enforced in strict or sensor and becomes a reality for everybody. It is article 14 of the constitution which said equality before the law and equal protection of the law and consequently this article 19 protected given several rights. But then these rights should not remain illusory and wishful thinking everyone should be in a position to enforce that is where the idea was developed. Now that afterwards we when we after 1976, it was a 42nd amendment which was adopted the constitution. At that time there was a great judge before the Supreme Court of India. And this great judge was not but justice we are Christian. And in a series of cases, he went to the extent of admitting the petition before the Supreme Court of India, only on postcards, just think of this. Even if the agreed party is unable to protect himself or herself. It has to be done and it has to be protected and justice must be rendered and done. The contribution of Krishna here is known to posterity in the judicial history of the state of India. There afterwards remember there was another great man who was sent by justice honorable justice Bhagavati. Bhagavati when he was appointed as a judicial committee member to provide social justice to the needy in the state of India have contributed and delivered wonderful judgments. But then things did not materialize. And it had to take place several years and the government of India thought of formulating an action plan. The action plan which was formulated by the government of India was to see that the entire territory of the state of India stretching from Jammu and Kashmir to Kanyakumari should have one law. And this one law should be in a position to enforce and to protect the victims of injustice so that justice is rendered to everybody. That was the objective. So it was in the year 1987 the Legal Services Act came to be established. And it was in 1987 that afterwards this one law the Legal Services Act which came into be established and enforced became one law for the entire territory of the state of India. Now that afterwards in 1987 it came in but then the lot of developments were taking place. It was not functional. In 1995 it became very effective when Justice Anand was appointed as the executive chairman of the Legal Services Committee of the state of India. Remember, lots of developments were taken place. It was he who was appointed. Remember the member secretary and other people. And he was responsible in formulating the rules that was paid for the working of the Legal Services Committee and subsequent development had taken place during its 10th year. And it was in 1997. For the first time, the Legal Services Authority with the assistance of the Chief Patron for the Chief Justice of State of India was able to call a meeting of the state level Legal Services Authority committees. And they formulated and afterwards it was functioning very well. Now what exactly the objective of these developments had taken place. When I speak about the courts were in a position to help us in defining and refining certain aspects and certain procedural laws. But then the Legal Services Authority in the legal committee, the committee which was established at the apex court, along with the Patron for the Chief Justice of India were able to classify certain things and were able to promote certain things to a law. Now when I speak about this, there are several things that is being spoken at length. One is legal services for the differently abled children. Now, you may be knowing it is not a manmade disaster. And it is ultimately by birth some kind of informatics will come in. And such people because of the disability must be protected and services must be rendered to them. And you can't just leave them alone because they are part of the state of the state of India and protection naturally. Remember deemed to be given by them and that is where the Legal Services Authority said these are the people who are entitled to have protection. Then because in a society like India 4 to 8% of the children are differently abled people. You can't just leave them 4 to 8% of the people of this country means a lot when we have nearly 135 crores of population today. Then legal services to senior citizens. Now this was adopted in the year 2016. Now senior citizens remember you have as many as remember 30 to 40 crores of people in this country above 60 years. Now children when they get educated for one reason or another the parents are abandoned and they are not taken care. The required help is not forthcoming. In a few cases the parents are responsible in nourishing and helping the children in coming up and getting the jobs and they sacrifice everything but in their old age there is nobody to take care of them. In such inhospitable climate the law comes into their sucker and help and legal services are to be provided to such people. Then the legal services to victims of acid attack. Now in the colleges and university campuses you know or in some other places you should find that acid is being thrown and innocent people for no reason their charm is being destroyed or they are being killed in a few cases. In such cases they deserve, they deserve remember help and they need out protection they should be taken care by the community. That is why legal services are being protected for such people victims of acid attack as well. Then legal services for disaster victims. Now you might be knowing of flood, famine, pestilence, drought. These are the things which are not main matter. And in situations like this for example in Karnataka you have the last several days we find lots of all the rivers are in spate and many houses are being washed off. And many people are remember during sleep are taken away by the rivers. Now in these circumstances you know national disaster relief mission which comes to their rescue. Wherever required the legal help the legal service authorities come and try to rescue the people and they give whatever protection is being given to them. Then legal services to the workers who are in an unorganized labor. Now for example you might be knowing lots of buildings come up. And these buildings especially in the metropolitan cities in the urban areas in Delhi, Bangalore and many other Bombay are very common. And workers from rural villages they migrate there and they stay and sacrifice themselves and at times when they fall down for one reason or other they are killed even. In such situations the workers who work in this industry that is what we call as the unorganized staff must be helped and legal services will be forthcoming to them freely. Now then legal services to the victims of drug menace. Now campuses especially educational campus today have full of people inflicted with drugs. And in situations like this for no reason they suffer or in the company they come across the drug dealers. The result they also become get addicted to these things. They need protection. They should be brought back to society. They should become good citizens of society and for those for these aspects they are also given protection under the legal services authority. Then there afterwards protection of enforcement of what we call as tribal rights. Now tribal people in order to protect their ethnicity and originality try hard. And while trying to maintain this they are at times under a target. Now in the situations of this kind they need protection.  Indigenous people in order to protect themselves to protect their cultures to protect their ethnicity to protect their original habitat had to suffer a lot. And at times remember they are not in a position to protect themselves now what has been done under the legal service that act is they are being protected by the law. And legal services will be provided to them. Then there afterwards the other important thing that is being spoken legal services for children. Legal services for children is very much essential because you have an international convention which was adopted in 1979 which came into force in 1980. Rights of children. And consequent to that the government of India also has adopted many many legislations for improving and protecting the children. Wherever the life of a child who is below the age of 18 years is in peril or in danger. It is the duty of the government of the day to come and protect and the legal services authority will do the needful that is what what is being being spoken at length in situations of this kind. In addition to this there are other aspects that is being spoken now other aspects relating to especially see for example women. Women who are forcibly taken to unlawful activities and women along with the children. And it is the duty of the government of the day along with the legal service authority to protect them and legal service authority has been doing this work. Remember wonderfully and the work is actually going on. Now this is something relating to the areas which are being taken up. Now the legal service authorities, when they have enforced or enforce their objectives, how this is being done is the most crucial thing. Now we have what we call as the legal service authority at the national level. When I speak about the national level the Chief Justice of India is the great patron. And another senior judge will be the executive chairman of the legal service authority at the central level. And he will be having a member secretary and a subordinate office. And that will be responsible. Remember in formulating moves after elaborate discussions and they try to implement these rules for the legal services care in India. Now at the state level what we call as we have the Chief Justice who is the chairman. And the Chief Justice of the High Court to the chairman and along with the Chief Justice of the High Court we have another person who is the executive chairman of the legal service authority. And these people along with the member secretary of the state who is remember of the rank of a district judge session judge who is the member secretary will be in a position to formulate rules and able to implement most of the rules which are being laid down under by the legal service authority. Now there afterwards when we come to district level we have the district judge who is the presiding officer. Who functions at the behest of the executive chairman of the state and the Chief Justice who is the chief patron. And lays down rules, regulations for implementation of the legal services within the district. Now it is not limited to the district alone it goes remember still lower and when I speak about the lower level it goes to the Taluka level. And in the Taluka level you have a district legal services committee and they involve lots of people and these people are part of the legal services committee and what assistance is required to the needy are taken care. Now what the very objective of this is to just bring in. Now what we social justice from top to the Taluka level. And when I speak about the Taluka level from the Taluka level we get shifted to the panchayat level as well. So members of the panchayat with the persons from what we call the Taluka headquarters with a member from the district legal service authority come in and try to give an address to a particular problem which come under the ones which I have just mentioned. Before you know these are instances how it is being functioning. Now then I just intend to speak to you what exactly are the nature of work which is being done. Now when I speak about the nature of the work lots of for example in the state of Karnataka between October to November October 21st to November and the Karnataka legal services authority was able to visit. As many as 29,000 villages. And these villages remember not only we stayed and they tried to provide legal services to the needy. And they found out the people through a scientific method. And this scientific method was able to help them a lot. And when I speak about the compensation remember 9 crores 15 lakhs compensation was discussed by it. Now this is remember in any imagination for a country like India is a very good estimate. Nobody can just cannot remember brush aside. That is the type of work which is being done in Karnataka. I'm just telling you who legal services when it provided there are as many as 2000 advocates other than the para legal personnel who try to work for this purpose. Now the other one how legal it is being given to them. Suppose for example a victim of justice is not able to protect himself. So at that time the concerned person will be allowed and permitted to file a case. And when he goes and files a case naturally whatever work is required to be done. Which commander of the provisions which I have just mentioned will be born by the legal services authority. Now you may ask me what type of first one is remember you have to prepare the plant and to prepare the plant you require papers. Then afterwards you require all other materials as well. And when it is done court fee has to be paid and a court fee also will be paid by the legal services authority. And they educates remember who are on the role for this purpose will take up the matter. And that is where it is being done. Suppose for example from the lower court the matter goes up to the high court. Now when it goes to the high court remember naturally there will be a translation of the judgment. It requires remember some kind of fee which has to be paid. Processing fee which is required. And all other additional expenses when the matter is filed before the court of law. If it is if it is genuinely required all of them all of them are paid by the legal services authority. Now this is the most advantageous thing which is being given to a particular paper who is who is denied justice. Now for example the executive chairman who three of them earlier honorable justice Arvind Kumar. He was the executive chairman who later became the Chief Justice of the Gujarat High Court. And currently honorable justice Virepa is the chairman. And we have the member secretary Sushitar Shetty and all other members all of them are doing wonderful work. In fact I have been just going through the type of work which is being done them. And it is appreciated by everybody applauded by everybody. And that is where justice and the doorsteps of the people. Now the second part of the story which I just intend to bring home is what role the students have to pay here. And when I speak about the role that is to be played by the students the Bar Council of India. In the year 2016 after consulting the legal services authority and both of them in tandem adopted certain procedures. Now what does the Bar Council circular say? The circular issued by the Bar Council points out each law colleges established in this country today there may be about 1900 law colleges in the country. And all of them when they start functioning as a law college is supposed to have a legal aid committee. It is called the legal aid clinic. And the legal aid clinic which is established under the rules of 2016 is supposed to have a coordinator. And this coordinator is numbered the staff of the college a teaching staff of the college. Along with the teaching staff there will be a student monitor student coordinator. And there will be a legal aid committee. And this legal aid committee should be in a position to go to the villages, identify the villages, go to the place and afterwards try to find out the existing problems there. Now you may be interested to know what type of problems they face. Now for example take it this way when you go to the villages it is you first you try to find out the people and meet them. And there may be certain services which were required for them. Now these services may be a few of them may not be having other card. Without the other card you cannot do anything because everything connected with the other card. And these people don't know where to go, whom to talk, whom to meet and how to get it. They don't even know how to fill in the form. Now the second one is some of them need health certificates because the government of India in the event of a severe problem with your health will go to the extent of giving you some lakhs of money. And in order to protect that you should have the health card without the health card you can't just get it. That is why remember that you have to help in getting the health card. Some of them don't even have a birth certificate. And if they don't have the birth certificate they don't know from where to get it. And in situations of this type now naturally you can go there and help them in identifying the person fill in the forms and get the birth certificate. A few of them remember passed away. But then unless you have the death certificate the successors will not be able to get anything anywhere. So help them in getting the death certificate. Now remember a majority of the people will have property but then don't have Khaka unless you have the Khaka which is in your name. Remember you are entitled to the property. It cannot be enforced before the court of law. And they don't even know whom to approach naturally to the threshold or who gives. That is where the concept of legal aid clinic came to be established where the students prepare a questionnaire. Having prepared a questionnaire what do these people need? These are a few of the things we have pointed out. Ours together we can speak on this. And having done this remember it is a scientific study. They put a question to each of the villagers. Suppose in a village there are 3000 people they go to the village and ask all of them all the families. What do they have? Whether they have or not. And that afterwards they make these many people required the other card. These many people required Khata card. And some of them require the birth certificate, death certificate or remember title to the property, whatever it be. Now then remember a day will come wherein through the able assistance with legal sovereignty a meeting of these people who are issuing the cards will be convened. Now first they will call the Chancellor he will be there. Then they will call what we call as the panchayat people who are supposed to issue certain certificates. On the days remember all will be cleared and the people will be happy and this is remember peacefully done without any violence. Just nobody knows. See first one is legal awareness. The people should come to know what exactly is the law in this country. And how from where from which place through whom they can get these certificates is the next thing. Incidentally, I just intend to tell you we have a legal cell of our own. And just two months ago we had conducted a program and there are as many as 100 students who took part in this. And it was actually remember trying to build up leadership amongst the students. Because students remember maybe knowing bookish knowledge, but practically they don't know anything about these developments, how it is obtained, whom should we meet. And for example, when we speak about this, we just take the help of Angaravadi teachers. We take the help of the other people, Asha workers, all of them joined together. Suppose for example, if the legal aid program in a village is for about a week. The last two days is exclusively devoted to resolve the applications and get the certificate from the proper place. And it actually gives and imbibes the true knowledge of law. And students will not be knowing for example, we had committed conducted another program. And in this program we are trying to help the Bangalore Municipal Authority, BBMP Corporation in assisting them in preparing the documents. And this document when they prepare the students naturally get to know the real estate law properly. They come to know the land laws properly. They come to know the law relating to the electricity, the water law. For example, water services are being given. What exactly is the law? Now, once you are trained for this, remember when you come out, you will be a wonderful civil lawyer. On the one side, you are helping freely to the people. On the other side, you are getting educated on certain principles of law. That is the objective of the legal services which are being provided. Now, it becomes actually creates leadership and it tries to build and help the egalitarian society in a state like India. Now, recently the legal service authority has taken a decision to give special protection to the widows. And widows may be from anywhere, from Mathura. They have made a mention of it. Or there may be in some other place, they need protection because there should be somebody to take care of them. And they also come under the provisions of the legal service authority. In addition to this, along with this, they have decided to protect the transgenders. Now, transgenders also need a protection. They should not be condemned because they are part of the society. If we have a right, they too have a right to live in. The right to life is a basic fundamental right. And whatever help is required is being done. Now, there are other things. One of the instances I just intend to give you before I request my colleague to speak a few words on other aspects. Now, recently a beautiful case has been resolved by the legal service authority in one of the districts. A lady, remember actually from the state of Kerala was wandering somewhere in one of the districts in Karnataka. So the paralegal authorities one day found out this lady and started making enquiry because her health was deteriorating. When her health was naturally deteriorating, they met her and made an investigation. And later they were not in a position to get anything from her. They found her Aadhar card. And when this Aadhar card was typed, she came and found out she comes from a very rich family with crores and crores of rupees because the children or the nearest people who are related to her got away her property and abandoned her. And then the legal service authority come into the picture and having come into the picture, immediately get in touch with the people who are related to her and call them, call for a meeting. And they said deposit this money, this much of money. And she was admitted to the hospital and taken care. There afterwards immediately they said your property, the conserved shares, since it is in her name only, you cannot just manipulate, she should be taken care. All these things, remember an abandoned woman who was wandering in thousands kilometers away was protected by this. Such incidents are not one, hundreds of them, hundreds of them are there. And in Karnataka, I just remember at the Thalukha level, in 140 in Thalukhas, we have legal aid committees. And these legal aid committees are to protect and they are the students of the law colleges are being helped by this way and the students also get to know and come to know and learn and it is a process of learning. Thank you very much. Yes, Pat, over to you. Thank you. I will be specifically addressing the issues of Lokadalit, one of the aspects which is also present in a very important role. We know we are having around 4.4 million pending cases and how a concept of Lokadalit has helped in reducing the number of pending litigations which are pending before the court. Lokadalit as a concept itself is a alternate dispute resolution mechanisms and it is a forum where a case which is pending before the court can be referred to Lokadalit or a case which is pre-litigation stage at any stage of pre-litigation can also be referred to Lokadalit. And Lokadalit per se itself is a statutory status and this Lokadalit gets a statutory status according to the legal services authorities at 1987. And as I told you, it's also an alternate dispute resolution mechanisms. We have five important alternate dispute resolution mechanisms where Lokadalit is one very important mechanisms which helps to solve the disputes amicably. And once a case which is pending before the court is referred to Lokadalit and if in Lokadalit if the matter is settled, that award which has been passed in the Lokadalit is final and it is binding on the parties. And on this particular award there lies no appeal which means the party cannot appeal to the higher court. And the best part of this is there is no court fees which needs to pay if you are going to a Lokadalit aspect in pre-litigation stage or if a case which is pending before the court and the matter is referred to Lokadalit, then the amount which you have paid is court fees is completely refunded to the parties. The other important nature of cases which can be referred to Lokadalit is one the case which is pending or the case which you are likely to be filing before the court. And here the offenses which are non-comfundable in nature cannot be referred to Lokadalit, rest every matter can be referred to Lokadalit. And how do you refer the matters to the Lokadalit case? A case which is pending the judicial officer has all the rights to refer the matter to Lokadalit with the consent of both the parties or if it thinks there is possibilities of settling the matter amicably. And in a pre-litigation stage the state legal service authority or the district legal service authority on receipt of an application from either one of the party telling that there is a likelihood of a dispute and based on which they can issue notice to the other party and settle the matter amicably. But there are a lot of advantages of the Lokadalit, one the procedures are very flexible and there is speedy trial of the disputes. There is no strict applicability of the procedural laws like normally the trial which we follow the civil procedure code and the evidence act, those sort of strict application of the procedure laws is not applicable in the aspect of Lokadalit. And the parties get opportunity to share freely what are their concerns and which these thoughts which they cannot share it before the court of law when the trial is happening the party get an opportunity to talk to the judges directly and talk to them and talk about the fears and the problems which they face. And then there is no court fees and if they have already paid the entire court fees is refunded which is also very less expensive and the other one last one is the award passed in the Lokadalit is final and binding on the parties. Normally once the trial gets over after the judgment comes we got an appeal we got second appeal and then we go to Supreme Court. So once an award is passed by Lokadalit then it becomes final and binding. This also helps in reducing the stage of litigations which is pending before the court. And as we know in the Lokadalit across the country there are more than 15.14 lakh Lokadalit which has been organized across the country and of which more than 8.25 crore cases are also settled through this mechanisms. Which is very effective and in Karnataka also many many cases have been solved through Lokadalit. The next aspect is hypocalysis. Permanent Lokadalit will take place under section 22B of the Legal Services Authority Act. The permanent Lokadalit is a statutory body which is constituted with a chairman and two members. And here they can only take up the matters with the relationship to public utility services. So what comes under the public utility services are transport services, postal telegram and telephone services, supply of power, light and water, systems of public sanitation, services of hospitals, dispensaries, insurance services or any other schemes which is being sponsored by the central or the state government. Which on this particular public services if they cannot avail this, they can go and file a case of any disputed nature, can file it before the permanent Lokadalit. The permanent Lokadalit has a jurisdiction. And here, unlike the Lokadalit, even if one thing matters, people with Lokadalit, the members and the jurisdiction to continue with the dispute and pass an award. And this award passed by the permanent Lokadalit is again final and binding on the parties. In our country, there are more than 1 lakh, 2 lakh cases disposed with the help of permanent Lokadalit. And they have also refunded around 23 crore rupees to the litigants who have been finding it difficult to otherwise get refund from non-functioning of these public utility services. So these are the two kind of Lokadalit which play a very prominent and important role in solving disputes and reducing the number of litigation spending in a country. Then to take forward the discussions on specifically with regard to the camps which the law colleges conduct and why it is important for law colleges to also play a very important role in reaching out to the communities and also help the government and the courts in reducing the litigation. And what happens in the Legal Services Camp module, which has been very clearly highlighted in the National Legal Services Authorities Scheme 2013, subsequently in 2016. They came up with a scheme telling that it's mandatory for all the law colleges to come up with a legal services camp module. Helps the people to want to create awareness and to clarify their doubts. Thirdly to also take assistance from the students and the faculties who are going there as part of Legal Services Camp module and to give them various legal opinions through which if required they can go to court or if required they can help them in approaching to a particular department to avail their benefits, which otherwise they are not able to get or they are not aware, what are the documents they need to give to avail these facilities. So this is one of the important step which has been, which is way forward, which has been come out by the National Legal Services Authority. And the aim and objective of the Legal Services Camp module is to educate the weaker sections of the society about the rights, about the benefits and the privileges guaranteed by the social welfare legislations and other enactment as well as the administrative programs and the schemes. The objective of the Legal Services Camp is one is to spread awareness on social legislations and various schemes which are available to the people at large and then how the community can access the schemes and how in case they are not able to access whom to approach to know the way forward. And then this particular thing is also the camp module also helps them in availing the, not only the schemes, the benefits, time to time benefits which the government launches and also to understand the legal need of the people and to address these legal problems and appropriately recommend what legal advice and measures can be taken. This legal camp module have three stages. One is called as a pre-camp module. In the pre-camp module the most important thing which law colleges have to do is, first important thing is they need to get in connected with the State Legal Services Authority. Like our college connected with the Karnataka Legal Services Authority who are very complete, who provided us with complete support and guidance in taking forward this particular camp module to the village. First to have coordination with the Legal Services Authority and with the District Legal Services Authority. Then the second important thing is to identify the target audience whom are we trying to achieve, which village are we adopting and what are we trying to address in this particular village. Third is to formulate a team with students, faculties and the fourth one is to go there and understand what are the, in each village there are different schemes. If it is a coastal village they have lot of schemes with regard to fisheries. If it is an agriculture, if most of the families are dependent on agriculture there are lot of schemes with regard to agriculture. So according to that based on the identified geographical locations they we are going to identify the needs what they want and then to identify the needs and the schemes specifically available for that particular need. And then you have to conduct pre-camp meetings with all the stakeholders and identify the village and the venue to conduct your camp and to next to have the students going to collect door to door information. Here normally what happens is we expect people to come to the court or the lawyers but here it's vice versa the students and the colleges go to the houses and ask do you have a problem. If so what is the problem you are having? Whether a complete detailed questionnaire is prepared and through this questionnaire we collect information on what are the difficulties where the people are, why they are not able to avail these facilities and why there is difficulty in accessing these basic schemes. These are identified collect data collected from them and then it is segregated and these segregated information are given to each department. Before we go into the field also there are lot of meetings conducted with all the stakeholders with complete support of the Karnataka State Legal Services Authority. We could meet with all the departments with panchayats, with Asha workers, social workers, with Anganwadi workers and with the watermen who also helped us in taking our students to the field. And then the challenges, the most of the important challenges which we faced was they were households were reluctant to give us lot of information. They were very curious to know why are we going the first challenge. The second challenge is many of them come like this and collect information but still we have not received any benefits. So that's the next important challenge which they try to explain. The third important challenge is this is just collection of data like others you don't come back to us. So what is the use we always tell you the problems we don't get anything in return. So these challenges is overcome by us and we are trying to collect data from around 18 villages and two panchayats was adopted, more than 3000 households we visited. Every student went door to door with a detailed questionnaire with all these in spite of all these challenges we could access the communities with the help of Asha workers because they are working in the field with panchayat members and also with the help of watermen who supply water to the houses because of which the community got confidence on these students and the when we approached them, they started sharing the difficulties and why they are not able to avail these benefits or get a legal remedy which they really require. With this all these details was collected. And along with this parallel we also conducted a lot of awareness workshops in the field talking about the social legislations, talking about women empowerment, talking about the child rights, talking about the agricultural rights, the lay right to education or citizens act right to education. Many acts awareness was conducted parallely so that they are one side awareness was happening one side we were conducting the collecting the questionnaire format of information on their difficulties. So both was happening parallel and then on the final day this was a seven days camp module on the final day all the departments came to that particular venue which was identified that is the second stage of the camp module which is on the day of the camp. All the departments came put on the stalls. There were a lot of community members who came there and they started interacting with the departments and trying to understand what are the documents which I need to produce if I need to avail these benefits and if I need to apply for a particular scheme what are the documents I need to produce all this was shared every department gave five to 10 minutes awareness programs on the schemes and if they want to avail the schemes what are the required documents which these community members need to produce to them all these were given and highlighted to the community members and the next day the community members were given an opportunity to come and give those submit those documents and an application in detail or asking them this scheme I want this is the requirement I want other card I want health card I want birth and death certificate I want old age pension so all these were the needs which they identified and they wrote and gave and they also submitted along with the documents. Many of them got remedy on that second day of the camp at the venue itself more than 700 people got other cards from that village and many of them also got health cards subsequent to that the third level of the particular camp module is post camp what happens so the data which we collect in the field are segregated and then whichever whoever have got the remedy we give it handed over to the departments who have not got the remedy we follow up with the district legal service authority and go to the concerned departments and ensure that if they are eligible for the particular benefit and scheme that needs to be given to them. So that's the third important face which the that's called post camp module which we are doing and through this what happens is many of the departments are now coming up openly and speaking about their for the schemes for example the women and department comes and speaks about the buggy Lakshmi bond which is given to the communities. The health department talked about the Ayushman card which the issue which is very easy to avail but people do not know it's so easy to get that card. The third revenue departments come and spoke about the other cards, and they also gave the other cut they bought the entire equipments, which needs to take photographs of the hand punching and all those, and this gave them the immediately other card was provided to the people. The education department spoke about the scholarship available to the school students and also spoke about the girl child welfare schemes. The agriculture department spoke about the free distribution of seeds they also spoke about distribution of seeds, components of the seeds, if you do not have space within this space, all this was shared by the agriculture departments through which many of the people got benefited and sub camp module is also helping these people in availing these benefits and facilities. So the outcome of this entire legal services camp module is through this service we could take the legal services to the doorstep of the needy people who otherwise find it difficult to find solution to their legal issues. It is healthy and it is not only weaker sections, it also helps the communities who do not or lack information on how to avail these facilities. That's one parallel side. The other one was many pending cases which was already pending in the court. One of them came in told us that they want to settle these matters amicably. So we have also referred around 40 to 50 cases to the local outlets which is happening in the district level. And the mayor we also knew the first local around 20 matters got settled. So which people are not aware that there was an existing of a local outlet system, they could go and even settle the matters amicably. So through this village legal services camp module, we were able to achieve objectives and go to the people at the doorstep to ensure that they avail the legal services. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation of yours to have a perspective in terms of the legal services of how it has developed. I think a lot of people not only because of the students, lawyers, and as we had talked to Dr. Subramanya, the basic context in which we had taken the session was that people down the talukas villages everybody is sensitized what are the rights, etc. There is a subtle difference between the normal course, the ADRs, the permanent local outlets as elaborately and extensively has been handled and how the paralegal services have also been playing a pivotal roles in the today's society. As they say that they are constituent despite the fact that there is so much clogging of the court cases but the legal services have created the space which has helped to do all this. One question, sir, it has been to you, can the alumni also take part in such camps? As of now it is meant for the students because when they were students they were supposed to have taken part. I am not able to give a certain reply because it is meant only for the students as per the power council resolution. Vidya, any answer you have? Because once you become a lawyer, sir, automatically you have a situation where you can always contribute. As a lawyer you can get a panel, you can work the district social services district, DSLSA and NALSAR etc. You can get yourself associated and be that as my once you have to sensitize the society as a lawyer or as a social engineering social worker, you can always do that. One important factor what I have found is majority of the students who are in the Arabian law schools come from middle class above background. As Gunnar Middle in Asian drama has pointed out, most of our administrators today, when he wrote long back in the 1950s, Asian drama in three volumes came in. Administrators today I don't have the first hand touch of the society or the rural village and they are the ones who make the law. So if the students at this stage are involved to go to the villages and to try to find out their problems and actually they will be in a position to give a better answer and themselves become good leaders of society. That is a great thing which I have realized when we conducted our program for a week very recently and all the Hiko judges were so happy and thrilled. They are all torch bearers of the society. They say that they are just like the saplings which will ultimately grow into the trees and give the right shade to the society at large by giving them the right sector of social legal impact on the social society with the legal impacts. So thank you to both of you and those who have missed our sessions, earlier ones, they can like, subscribe and share to the Beyond Laws CLC and join our WhatsApp group for the latest updates.


Cheap thermal paste with a high-end CPU. What could go wrong? What's up internet? The Ryzen 7 3700X usually goes for around 15,000 pesos and normally we would use something like this, Noctua's NTH1, around 300 pesos to help cool it. But there are cheaper thermal pastes. Much cheaper. As in single digits cheaper and we got all of them and we tried them out. Hindi nilig anong dici. Gusto ay di kelam na windows. Pero saan ko hukuan ng legit windows? Daming options, daming prices. Aka nito. Gudi na lang. May cdkeyoffers.com. Magdalilang ng order. Search for the software you need and to cart. Daan ka sa payment options nila. Wala pag 5 minutes finished. May legit, working cdkey ka na para sa windows mo. Gamitan ng aming code para makakuhapan ng discounts. Kaya kung nagahalap ka ng legit, mura at original software. Check out cdkeyoffers.com. So we did a roundup of premium thermal pastes in the past and you can see the results here. But this high price equate to high performance. We're snobs and we love our Noctua but can the cheap thermal pastes surprise us? Not gonna lie, actually they did. Our setup consisted of a fractal design R6 case with a Ryzen 7 3700X and its stock cooler. Then we punished the CPU with Cinebench R23 for 30 minutes and then recorded the maximum temp reached by each paste in that time period. At stock speeds, actually all of the cheap pastes did a pretty good job. In line actually with Noctua's NTH1 which we used as a benchmark. The 9 peso Viking Keen YNPJ hit a temp of 78 degrees. 10 peso HY410 was toasty at 79 degrees. 20 peso GD900 was really good actually at 75 degrees. 25 peso YJG190 was okay at 77 degrees. And finally the 55 peso HY510 was solid at 75 degrees. Not too shabby and all of the cheap pastes did their job well enough so that the PC didn't crash during the test. So of course we weren't satisfied with that and overclocked the 3700X to 4400MHz at 1.325V. Did any of the cheap pastes survive the overclock? Yes, actually at least one of them passed the overclock. Starting with the benchmark, the NTH1 of course handles the overclock no problem with a max temp reached of 80 degrees. 9 peso YNPJ flunks, it crashed 10 minutes into the test and hit a max temp of 84 degrees. 10 peso HY410 almost made it. Crashing at a 26 minute mark with a max temp of 87 degrees. Sayang lapit na niya to completing the test. Clear winner is the 20 peso GD900 which passed the test. Completed the 30 minute test on overclock speed with a max temp of 81.3 degrees with inhaling distance of the mark of the NTH1. 25 peso YJ61900 was the worst performer crashing at a 5 minute mark with a max temp of 86.5 degrees. The most expensive cheap paste, the HY510 at 55 pesos also could not handle the overclock. Crashing at around a 12 minute mark with a max temp of 83.5 degrees. So there's a clear winner among the cheap pastes and that's the GD900 which scored the lowest temperature at the stock speed test with 75 degrees tied with the HY510 and it was the only cheap paste to actually survive the overclock. I'm impressed and honestly a bit surprised by the results. If you're using an office computer or a build that doesn't need a lot of performance then actually any of the cheap pastes would be okay for you. One caveat with these pastes though is that since they border on the generic no one really polices what gets labeled as GD900 then you could be buying what you think is good cheap paste but then who knows what you'll get. If what you'll get is really the GD900. That's one of the whole points of a brand is that when you buy Noctua you know that you're getting an original Noctua and you're getting Noctua's quality. Still for a non-performance build it looks like you can go with any of the cheap pastes currently on the market and you'll be fine. So if you get one of these cheap thermal pastes you'll get around 280, 300 pesos swaq na yon para sa 6 month membership sa YouTube membership namin. Just a suggestion in case nimaw alam anong gagawin mo sa savings mo. Thanks for watching. And thank you to our top fans na afford na namin to kupuwa na to and edyok lang. Thank you to Leah Magnaya, Ian Meru, ITX addict, John Ruben Ocha, Christian Espinoza, and Raphael James. Thank you for supporting the channel.


I'm clicking on my, there it is. Nope, nope. Oh, there you go. Hi, hi, hi. Hey, Lolly, welcome back. Thank you so much. I missed y'all. Yeah, you were, you're working, you're doing five jobs now. I am. We're making it work. We're pleased, we're pleased to have you. So this is Wash Me Work and we get together pretty much every week and we work together and then we talk with you about your work and your creative process. I'm SLP.  No, about 14 years. We started in the lobby of the Public Theater and since COVID shut down, we moved to Zoom and where we were happy and where we are very grateful to the Public Theater and HowlRound for hosting us and helping us organize all this, especially folks like Lolly who help us figure it all out every week. What we're going to do is we're going to work together and then I'm going to take questions about your work and your creative process while we don't have the bandwidth to have you, you know, show us your work or read from your work or anything like that. We do have plenty of time to talk about process and if you want to have, if you have a question about your creative process, please, Lolly is going to tell you how to get in touch, go a lot. Thank you. So if you're here in Zoom with us, you can ask a question by using the raise your hand function. It should be in the reactions tab, which is likely at the bottom of your screen, but if you have any trouble finding it, you can just let me know in the chat and I'll help you out. Or if you're watching live with us on HowlRound, you can ask us questions via the Public Theater's Twitter or Instagram accounts or via the Watch Me Work Twitter account, which is at Watch Me Work SLP with the hashtag HowlRound, that's hashtag H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D. Fantastic. Okay. I have my timer. Here it is. We're getting ready to go. Boom. Yay. Okay. It's that time we've been working for 20 minutes and now we can take questions about your work and your creative process. If you have a question, let us know. Looks like we have a question from Charlie. You should be able to unmute now. Charlie, how you doing? Good. Sorry to ask another question. I'm happy for other people to jump in, but it's kind of quiet out there. Boy, so many questions. Let's start with this one. How much do you know about your characters when you start a project? Great question. Great question. How much does one need to know about one's characters, right? It depends on, you know, if you have an idea of their name, if you have an idea of maybe what they're up to, i.e. why you're interested in them or why they're, you know, say, come here, I have to tell you a story, you know, or I'm in the middle of something. I want you to watch and write about it. Then that's enough to go on. I don't think one has to do extensive character biographies to get started, but if you feel more comfortable doing those than do them, in my experience, you find out a lot about the characters by writing or, you know, it's like a portrait. You know, you have an idea of what you're gonna paint and you start painting, you find out so much more about it by doing it. Who said that? I know by going where I have to go. You know, so if you feel comfortable getting a whole big 20-page biography or one sheet of biography, that's great. If you know their name and what they're about, that might also be good enough. So that makes sense. It depends on what you need. Yeah, sort of curious outworks for you. I've played with it both ways, yeah. No, but this is, you know, oh, maybe I didn't say that this week. So watch me work. Yeah, the title is misleading. It's about your work and your creative process. So when you ask me a question, I tend to make it about you. Fair enough. Fair enough. Not trying to probe, just, you know. Because I mean, honestly, you know, everybody knows I've been, you know, writing plays for over 40 years and novels and short stories and screenplays and poems and songs and everything. And I, sometimes I know everything about the characters sometimes I just know their name. So it's really whatever, whatever, whatever. And I'm interested in what might work for, you know, what works for me on Tuesday might not work for me on a Friday. Yeah, I mean, I def, a recent project, spent a lot of time working up background ideas or whatever. But then as the piece proceeded and it got revised, it's like, oh no, that's not true. That, you know, that's not who I thought this was, that kind of thing. Exactly. Which was fun, but also like maybe step back and say, maybe not be so analytical going in. Exactly, exactly. But then some people, they need that guide rope. And so, you know, then go ahead and make it. And yeah, so it's really what you need. I try and once, you know, you're writing a character biography, it's your one page and you're like, okay, okay, okay. I'm good. Then go for it. Then start writing, you know. Yeah. It's like we're talking to somebody a couple of weeks ago, it's rule of thumb, how does it make you feel? How do you feel about it? If you're feeling good, you know, great. If it sounds like it's just an exercise, it feels like it's just an exercise, then cut to the chase and start writing. But is there an argument to sometimes dive in when it doesn't feel good? No? Sure, sure, sure, sure.  I did, yeah, I'm sorry. Okay, so maybe you guys have different temperaments and they say, hey, you know, enough of this character biography. We've already got, you know, 80 pages, you know, let's start and you say it doesn't feel good. Well, you might want to give it a try. If you're in a writing program and you have something due soon and you feel like you've been spending too much time on the background stuff. I've also had times when it's like, it doesn't feel good until I'm into it. It's like, I'm holding back. Let's just start putting stuff on the page and then the light, you know, the clouds part and things start to happen, yeah. Exactly, exactly, exactly.  You know, you have to be flexible enough to try different things. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you. Looks like we have a question from Chilly. Yeah. Hello. Hey, Chilly. Hey, yeah, got blue hair this weekend. I'm in New York now. Yeah, I'm usually in Vegas when I call in. So this question is about like theme, theatrical elements and action. So I'm, one thing that is really effective in plays and I'm loving is just actions and theatrical elements that tie into theme. And so I kind of find, I'm struggling with this chicken or egg argument, like does the theme come first or does the story come first and then you discover the theme and I've been reading a lot about it and talking to a lot of people and getting conflicting answers, I guess. And so I think I'm struggling with it because I know my theme and so now it's about what theatrical elements can I put in play or what actions or things can I have characters teach each other that speak to that theme. And I just wanna know if you've had any guidance there on how to sort through those waters. So we'll use what we spoke with Charlie about. How do you feel? Does it feel good the way you're doing it? No, I feel kind of all over the place. Some things feel good.  But so that works, but it feels like a very messy process. So maybe that's just what it is. And maybe there's no, maybe there's not a cleaner way. All right, so I'm clear about what you mean because I'm not entirely sure. Theme, when you say theme, you mean like what the work is about? What do you mean by theme? Yeah, is when I say theme, I mean, what is the work about the premise? The question that I'm putting out that I'm not necessarily, I don't necessarily have an answer for, but the question or the C kernel that gets me telling the story and what I'm exploring. Okay, and when you say theatrical elements, what do you mean? I mean, things like a prop that represents something that ties into the theme or like a light, like a specific lighting cue or a specific action. And I just wonder from a writer's perspective, are those things that you consciously put into the piece or are those things that people discovered later? Right, okay, great. Okay, let's see how to answer this. That's a great question. It's a very specific way of creating something, say a play or a screenplay or a novel or whatever, a story, it's not how I go about creating things at all. If anyone asks me what's the theme to fill in the blank something I've written, I go, I don't know, I have no interest in theme. And the things that we find in say a play that I've written or a novel or whatever are very carefully chosen, but not because of the theatrical resonance.  I'm really interested in a story. Tell me a story. The way that maybe your mom, dad, auntie, grandma, primary caregiver, favorite babysitter told you. Once upon a time there was a young woman and she had really long toes. It's a story. So I come to it from story, from character, from what's going on, what am I seeing? So it's more of a, Jillian, it's more like I have, I put all my faith in the power of the story. And I'm more interested in the power of the story than I am in the analytical prowess of somebody who will come and read it later. Okay, got it. Yeah, no, that resonates and feels right. I think where I get tied in is when you join writer groups or you're in circles or people are reading your work, there's often the question of like, well, what's the theme? What's the theme? How is this tied to theme? What's the theme? And I'm just, there's part of me that feels like that's not my business. But that's not always a well-received answer. So I wanted to kind of just bring that here. So it's... Yeah, and that's, you know, if a certain group of writers or group of artists create in a certain way and they have been taught or they have learned on their own or they have picked up the habit of asking certain kinds of questions about work and you come in there and you don't work that way, then you're the only one out and you're thought of as, you know, wrong in some way.  Oh my God, the way they can frame stuff and excite audiences, which is amazing. And it's a whole big talent and a skill and all that. Yeah, so you have a marketing meeting and they ask you about what's it about? What's the story? What's the theme? When it's written. And what? I, while I can respect that way of creating because people do it, you know? It's not something I don't create that way. And I find that if you, you know, so I'm gonna put a water bottle on the table in act two and that's gonna signify that, you know, the drought, the desert of their relationship and how they need water, that's all you're gonna get. Yeah, that's all you put it. You're gonna put it in there. It's gonna mean something. The audience can get that meaning that you put in there and hooray. And the audience says, yeah, I understand. I got it. I'm gonna put it in the club instead of rich storytelling where there's a whole lot going on. There's 500 ways to understand, to get Hamlet, right? Yeah. You know? And I don't know how Shakespeare constructed it, but it seems more from a very strong storytelling, a foundation of strong storytelling. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That was very helpful. It's not a story.  Once was a person named, you know, your main character. They were interested in da-da-da-da and then they did that. And then they met a, wow, that's interesting. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you're so wonderful. A good story. Okay. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Great question. Really great question. Thank you. Thank you. Aiden. So this is kind of building off the question that was just asked. But if you're starting writing a piece and you're only focusing on story, kind of rather than the themes and ideas of the piece, how do you know that your story is going to resonate and matter kind of once it is finally constructed? Just because I feel like if I have the platform or a voice to kind of share my work with people, I wanna make sure that I am talking about something that matters and I am saying something that's important. And so I worry that like going in with like just the story lens that I'm gonna kind of end up with a story that can be nice but that doesn't really, isn't really gonna make the impact or change that I want. Great question, Aiden. And this is going out on a limb here or maybe not, maybe going into a whole tree. Maybe it's a whole tree, it's not just a limb. I feel, this is again, this is just my opinion. This is so my opinion.  Every story that is told doesn't resonate with everybody. There are writers these days going, they ask me, SLP, what trends should I write about? Because maybe, oh, I don't know, this summer pink was really in and so should I write a story about the color pink? You know what I'm saying? I wanna hear what's interesting to you. If you write it deeply and with feeling, if you tell me a good story, maybe it's not gonna resonate with every single person in the world, but it will resonate with somebody else. And that's the artistic chance that you have to embrace.  And if it's not meaningful to anybody else, at least you've written something that's meaningful to you. And that's the game we're playing here. That's the arts, you know what I mean? Or if you speak your truth, it's gonna resonate with somebody else. Does that, yeah, so does that make, I'm sorry, you're muted, but I think I see your mouth moving. You should be able to- Sorry, I muted myself and then it wouldn't let me. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, and not to worry about, I have to write something that's topical. I mean, let, maybe we look in online magazines or whatever and they tell us that, this summer, this kind of dress is in and so we have to buy that dress, but the arts are, it's a different kind of game. Right, thank you so much. You're welcome, great question. Questions today, y'all. Thank you, Aiden, Louise. Hey, Louise. Okay, I'm following up on the first two ladies and it's just a question. I know this is watching work and it's about our work, not about your work per se, but what comes to mind is, so the works that you've created, you've created them, they're out in the world, they're done. Do you, as a playwright, revisit in your head completed works, not revisit in the same, in the sense that, oh, I'm gonna go back and change it, but do you find new discoveries in what you've created? That's a great question, Louise. Do I find new discoveries? I think people who produce the work find new discoveries because they're bringing themselves to the work. I don't necessarily find things because I am not looking at them. Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, maybe in a rare case, but usually when a work is done and produced and it was 20 years ago or 30 years ago, whatever, I'm not really thinking about it. I'm letting it go. I did the catch and release. I catch, I give it my best, I let it go, let it out into the world. If there's a, like the Broadway Revival top dog I was involved in, of course, we discovered things and it was beautiful. There's a play that I wrote in 1990 and I was joking around with a friend repeating some of the lines, we were repeating some of the lines and I said, oh, now I finally understand what that means. So there are rare occasions where that kind of thing happens. I might go, oh, that's what that means. I thought it, I never really thought about it. Now I realize that it means that, you know? The line from Death of the Last Black Man and the whole entire world, aka the Negro Book of the Dead, the line is you should write it down, you should hide it under a rock. And I was like, oh, now I get it. You know, I wrote the play in 1990. So there's plenty of room for discovery, but I'm not, you know, going over old texts. And no, I was curious. But people do, people write me all the time and come up to me all the time and say, oh my gosh, you know what I realized about? I'm not like, oh, that's amazing. It's cool. Thank you. Thank you. What about you, Louise? Do you have when you, things that you've written in the past and you might go back and look at them or a friend might discuss them with you, do you find that, wow, I never thought of it that way. Do you find revelation to be had? Well, just very briefly, my case is a little bit different because I do short experimental films. And so when I do a film and it's just like done and it's just like whatever, you know, it's just kind of done. And it's like whatever, if you like it, you see something in it, then good. So I don't really be visit per se, but you may go back and see, oh, you saw that. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So I was just curious. But let me just say that I've been doing my short films. I've been writing, but what this, like I say, they're pearls of wisdom from you and the group. And what has helped me is when you had mentioned, just give yourself over to the work and it will reward you. Because I, like everybody else, I have a lot of stuff going on. But what I find is, if you devote just a little bit of time, a little bit of time every day, then it kind of, the work catches up to you. The work catches up to you and it supports what you're doing in the process. That's what my experience has been. Yes, ma'am. Yes, well said. Thank you for saying that, Louise. Thank you for reminding us all. That's really, really smart. Thank you, sister. Thanks, Louise. Next up. Okay. Okay, wait, hold on. Let me, can you unmute? Are you good? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good. Well, I don't know how to actually put this question, but I'm just wondering, you know, how much to reveal in writing because I go through a lot of things with my family. And some of the things that have been said today really hit on, it just makes me think even more about the questions I have about writing and sharing things with the public. So basically, I'm very different from the rest of my family. You know, and the things that I want to write about, and I do write about them, but I don't share them, but then when I mention them to very close friends, they'll say, oh, that's not so, they say I have that same experience with my family. So it makes me wonder about actually sharing the things that I go through, have gone through, go through, and the things that are out there, and whether or not to write it and share it. I don't know if that's clear or not. It's a great question, Jay, and can I call you, Jay? Do you? Oh, yeah, no, no, that's fine. Okay, great. Okay, it's a great question. And to, in varying degrees, you know, we all, when we're creating something, go through something like that. If you're very different from your family and they are perhaps not very accepting of the way you are in your authentic life, then it's even a bigger barrier. And to your point, you said, should I even write them? Well, of course, and you are writing them. It sounds like you're doing the work, which is really, really great. Should you share it? There are a couple of ways you know that you can share it. You can share it under a different name. You can share it and if your concern is that you might, I don't know, create some kind of a riff, you know, in your family fabric that you don't want to do, then you might find ways in like under a pseudonym to share it. That's done a lot. And they're wonderful online places too. There's Medium, there's Substack. There's a couple of other places where you can submit. It's not like you have to go into a publisher and get it published like in the olden days, you know? So I would say if you feel the need to share it, then definitely find a way. You will find a way to share it if you use a different name other than your own or other than the name that your family knows you by. And on a platform that is more anonymous, you could say. And you can still gain a following and make money. Those kinds of things can happen. Yeah, that's really helpful. It would be even more helpful if you could put that in the, if you could write that down so that I can copy it because I don't remember, you know. I'll give you two words. One is called Medium, like Medium. The other is called, thank you Lolly. And the other is called Substack.  I mean, there are also articles, you know, on any of these online publications, Slate, Salon, HuffPost, you know, First Person Personal. You have a lot of places that are accepting works of writing by folks telling their stories, that kind of thing. But Medium and Substack are kind of fun. I mean, I think the conflict is that I'm a, one I'm an artist, but not at all. They're totally different careers. Two, I went to Smith, which I know you understand having gone to Holyoke. Right. And so it's just a real difference there. And so I've always been different. And now it's, the older I get, the more it just comes out. And I just want to shout, you know, because they're so differently. They just think that I'm just, you know, doing what, but I don't understand that I am who I am. And those are the things that are of interest of me and other people. I just want to, I just want to scream all the time. No, really scream and print. It's a great, it's a great view. And check out Medium and Substack and see if you like those kinds of things that you're reading on there. It's a great way to get your voice heard. Really great. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you, Jay. We have MC up here. Hi, MC. Hey, you're back home? Yes, yes. It was a hard landing, you know, when you're in a magical land. Yes. But yeah, my question is about deadlines. Yeah.  And so it's coming down to that time. And I'm not there with there's a lot of shitty going on but there's no the end yet.  And I put it there. And then I sort of stopped looking at it because my characters that I was pretty confident I could get to the end of a story. They just stopped talking to me.  So I went on, I veered into that direction. And so going in this new direction which brings me more joy and ease than the other characters who just, you know but I'm committed to them because I want to get the story of my other people, Leo and Buddy out but they weren't bringing joy. And they weren't, so I know I have a question in here. And it's about, how do I get to it? How do I, I need, I just need some cheerleading to get to the deadline for one of these, some of these characters. Joy is a funny thing. Joy is a funny thing. And when we associate joy with the artistic process I mean, it's, let's see, let me be tacky. I'll be tacky. It's not like making love. Making love is supposed to feel good, right? You're supposed to feel good. Work doesn't always feel good. Work, the creative process doesn't always feel good. And you can't judge it. Oh, it's great because it feels good.  You know what I'm saying? You know, on your intended. It, sometimes it feels good. Sometimes it doesn't.  So, and I wonder, you know, you have a new character come up and the last Empress and they're fabulous and wonderful. And does it feel good because it's new? Is that you still in the honeymoon stage, you know?  But you see what I mean? So, if you, how close are you to the deadline? I'm about three weeks away. Okay, three weeks away in time. And how, okay. And how, how many pages do you have to write of the initial thing to make the deadline? It's not a, it's more of a chapter thing. I think I'm, I had my characters, the initial, the seven-year-age ones, they've reached the climax. So now I'm just sort of writing towards the end, to the end. So I'd say it's another 80 pages, 50, no, 50 pages. Great. Okay, great. Great. So MC, let's do some math. Let's make it about math and not about inspiration. You got 50 pages. You got three weeks. Anybody know what that is? Three weeks or what? Three, that's 24 days, right? Ooh, 24 days. Okay, that's almost 25 days, right? So let's just say it's 24 days. Can you write two pages a day? Yes, I can write two pages a day. Great. But. Because what you're teaching yourself, MC, is you're teaching yourself to finish. Just a skill. You're teaching yourself to finish. You're teaching yourself about commitment. You're teaching yourself to finish. And again, different people say different things. I'm not saying they're wrong and I'm right or whatever. This is what I do. If I'm running the marathon and I'm on mile 20, I've trained for a marathon, I never run a marathon.   No, you're gonna go.  And you're teaching yourself to show up for yourself and you're teaching yourself that you can keep going even when it's not good. This does not apply to dating.  I mean, if you're in an abusive relationship, this is not what we're talking about. I love making and all that. I'm saying when you're writing, there are gonna be a lot of days where it just doesn't feel good. And there're gonna be days where it feels glorious. You know? And there're gonna be days that you, yeah, I know the story. And there're gonna be days that like, I don't know what I'm doing. And you gotta keep showing up. Every artist I know who I admire, you know, in the past and colleagues and stuff. We have to train. That's part of the training. That's part of the discipline. So all you need to do, MC, is two pages a day. That's all you need to do. When's your writing time? In the morning? You like writing in the morning? Great. Get up in the morning. What's two pages? What is it? Like a thousand words? I don't know. Is that like a thousand? Okay, boom. You got two pages, double spaced, right? 12 point. Two pages a day. Just throw yourself across the finish line. Get done.  You can work on that novel or store whatever it is. You can also work on that. You have plenty of time during the day. Yeah, I do. Okay, I just gotta stick to it. Thank you. Promise to myself. Keep the promise to yourself. Or better or for worse. This is the valley of the shadow of yucky writing. Man. Thank you. I've been there. Look to your left. Look to your right. Look ahead of you. Look behind you. It's populated with all kinds of artists. We're all trudging along on any given day. You're not alone. All right. Oh, thank you for not feel so alone. Yeah. Oh, you're right. You're right.   I'll be back there tomorrow. Yeah. Is that the only way I know how to get anything done?  And if you write a shitty draft, you're giving yourself a chance to make it better. If you don't write a draft at all, there's no way you're gonna make it better. Right? You gotta rewriting is a wonderful thing, you know? Okay. Great. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, MC. Is it, I have, we have, I'm gonna try this thing again, this suggestion for your digestion, AKA the watch me work tip of the week. And I'm gonna repeat something that I said a couple of weeks ago. Again, we talked about the fact that you have a choice and you have a chance, right? You have a chance to do your work. And so make the choice to do your work. And I wanna lift up and honor the name, the person, a guy called Nathan Lewis Jackson, who is an amazing writer. Amazing playwright. He wrote plays like Brocology, which was at Lincoln Center. He's a Juilliard grad. He's a wonderful, righteous brother, kind, brilliant soul. I worked together with him on doing a TV show, Genius Laritha. He passed away recently, young brother, okay?  Writing that novel, that play, that short story, that film, whatever, take the chance, make the choice, do the work so that we can know you so that you can sing your song, right? So I'm just sending some love out to Nathan Lewis Jackson. And all of you, and all of you, okay? It's almost six o'clock. It's almost six o'clock. We need to connect about dates and we will get back to everyone to look on the public theater and how around websites for our next set of Watch Me Work dates. And we'll see you all very soon. Thank you, thank you. Have a great week. We'll see you again. Bye.