What's happening Steve Mitre from the TSL podcast the podcast to be the better man and today We got mr. Anthony Johnson a force of nature when it comes to vision Perspective and drive he is the founder creator CEO of the 21 convention We should all know what that is if we're a male looking for improvement in dating fitness Relationships just overall self-improvement with a male perspective He's gotten the best speakers from around the world to unify on a single stage Bringing you an awesome message of improvement that is based on a pretty powerful vision and Ideal and that is the coolest thing about this podcast one of the first times ever you're gonna hear Anthony the creator of this Speak on how he manifested this the the power behind it and man I know him very well. I'm the host of the 21 convention that's upcoming in 2014 and I was even blown away By this man's passion and drive. It's something that we should all have a little bit rub off on us And see where it takes us that all being said this podcast is brought to you by the sexual life TSL That's my company if you're looking at improving your life in any way Especially when it comes to dating sex connection Communication if you're a guy in sales to a guy that just wants to meet better women Check out the better man's guide to dating and lifestyle. It's exactly what it says it is It's an audio program that was created by TSL members That's how powerful it is if you were going to meet the best people in your life You've got to be the best version of you So check it out. There's probably a link down here somewhere and without any further ado Check out Mr. Anthony Johnson. You're gonna be impressed What's happening it is Steve Maeda with the TSL podcast and today we have Anthony Johnson founder CEO of the 21 convention 21 convention comm if you don't know what that is Man, I'd be pretty surprised if you're involved in anything that has to do with me or a message that I carry I mean it has been You you've got to know about the 21 convention Which is basically a convention and an amazing YouTube channel that has just tons of content on how to be a better man Basically anything from health fitness Philosophy of course dating What what else they got there? It centers around specifically at 21 University where all the videos get posted philosophy its culture which is like dating sexuality male studies or men's rights and Then help and then electives is sort of like independence like you mentioned a while ago. Yeah a while ago independence would center on self-defense entrepreneurship and Anything in the future that's like Sort of miscellaneous but still important to a man's life Yeah, so philosophy culture health independence. Let's go back to some history here I met you in I think 2008 like in May or something Yeah, that's right. So the first convention was actually in 2007 which is the only one that I didn't speak at I didn't speak at that one and Sweden, but that's right. I still spoke at a 2010 convention So so but man you were how old when you started this thing I started organizing it at 17 the first guy actually invited. I was 17 was Brad P You know him. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  He's like, what is it when no Just like kind of like you did a little bit when I talk to you.  Where do I where do I sound? That's so weird because John I thought only spoke because I was going to but um, yeah, Brad He spoke to me how spoke The year before yeah, that's so weird. That's so weird brad I know personally from brad who's a really good guy. Yeah, there's like very few coaches that I'm like Full fledged with but if you wanted to learn just straight like Like pick up for what it is. He's actually an awesome coach who has like a Awesome trainers really good dude, but he never speaks with anything. That's uh video because yeah base. Yeah He has another life I guess so but uh, yeah It's interesting. I haven't thought about that in a while, but he is the first person ever invited to speak I'm pretty sure that's so crazy, but Man, you were 17 years old. Okay when I was 17 years old.  We've talked back and forth. You know, we've become pretty good friends And I was the wedding man. Yeah part of the wedding party. Yeah mc'd your wedding But the the coolest thing about it is is in this time I think I was 30 when I spoke at your convention and I'm 36 now So damn time goes Six years man six years and there's even more about that initial convention.  We created some of the best guys, you know sock comes out of there Man, there's even a tons of speakers from the convention. Yeah. Yeah, but but even crazier is like Uh the convention that I was at 2008 You know, you know, even even you are a product of top layer in an indirect sense because you came to spoke to top layer That's how I met you I didn't know that and sin I was the Only person that Like I think zuzu really pitched on top layer because I did a stack for For this guy nektar. We'll use their handle. Oh, yeah, I know that guy Hey, and you know, you know who uh Vlad is uh From is actually doing something with me now and um, oh cool. Yeah, it's it's crazy.  It's crazy. You know, it's nuts but um, and it was run right and it was basically because of uh zuzu, um, it started with this guy big wave who is also Dude, I never I never met big wave, but I heard he came to the 2011 convention. Yeah.  Oh, yeah He was saying he was there and I didn't even meet him. Oh, he's a great guy, man this guy totally changed his life and actually did a podcast with him and uh It's just audio I should probably do a video one with him if I can but he's like a total Entrepreneur, man.  So he wanted to start this top layer thing and um Uh get involved in it, but he wanted to be about overall man and whatever Is an entrepreneur ended up making his money becoming You know really successful. I mean, he's a guy that I'll talk to about business where it's like, wow How did you do that? It's amazing and uh, is able to really Change his life and create a forum where he could change a lot of other people's lives, but um Man, you actually did that you uh, probably did it the most with the 21 convention and having a forum to change People's lives in such a massive way. Um, if and you also Redefined for me. This is like the crazy thing again, you know, I'm 36 But I look back and and solely to anthony johnson. There's there's a lot of people who I really, uh Respect for different areas of my life or whatever But if ever I want to look at integrity or finding the right message I think back at you and I think back at that At the 2008 convention and I think back at like some of the other ones little different times with 2008 convention You were in a bind That was the worst time definitely And I've been there too like I know how to like I I just made a uh email about this that'll probably make a blog post I know how to make money, but I don't know how to manage things right and it can screw stuff up And 2008 convention you were like shit, man I have all these people I was in the best spot man I hired this awesome camera guy because my vision this is before videos were online You hadn't really started the youtube channel or if you had it was really small Yeah, I was tiny and most of the videos were hosted on a proprietary site from another company. I partnered with the youtube channel And I had like a few things on it like the trailer and maybe one or two other things Yeah So I should have done if dude from youtube from the start That's one of the that was a bad decision not to go with youtube from the very beginning Um, even though there weren't you couldn't upload full-length videos in I should have put it out like I do now with the parts and that was uh Business wise that was a bad decision. It's I'm making up for it now But if I had done that dude The channel would be like more than twice the size that is now at 50,000 It would have 100,000 plus subscribers. Yeah, but But whatever man, nobody knew that then yeah, I could have showed what uh, the youtube was new back then but you did something that uh people who are trying to just Make money and do crazy stuff with youtube But you did it all organically you did it all yourself and at that at that 2008 convention, man You you were basically like it was like five grand for all the video stuff or something like that, right? Or a little bit more than that. Yeah, okay.  How can we do it?  I sold my car twice to fun the convention You like when I mean I remember you were it was dude. I even sold a boat I had a boat I had to sell eventually I didn't have to but I chose to yeah I grew up on a boat man. I had a boat since I was like uh, 12 years old. It's a boat and my dad bought me and I was a kid That's bad Yeah, I was fortunate to get that you know from my parents But I had it was in my name and then I just sold it a couple years ago And pumped it into the company just to make sure everything continued to flow right and work well So plus it's it's expensive to sell to keep a boat How the hell did you do that man?  I wanted to well as for me. So it's it's it's still about me and and all about me and in some ways I do the convention because it's what I want to exist because it doesn't exist And I wanted to exist and I wanted to exist specifically for For what I think is important to me in my values So there's no other event like the 20 convention people speakers and attendee say this all the time There's nothing else like it out there something Tim a friend said a couple years ago one of the speakers And that's that's where it started to it started because I wanted Mostly I wanted to meet guys. That's why it was called the under 21 convention I wanted to meet guys who are under 21. I was 17th time Who were good with women and had something to offer? I could maybe offer in return as well, but I wanted to meet guys just Uh in general who were good who were young that seemed really relevant to me at the time Whereas the top layer all the guys were like 30 40 years old I couldn't like relate to them and there was almost no one on there Even letting me on the layers usually didn't won't let me on because I was a minor Um, but I turned 18 like soon after so he didn't end up being okay with it but uh That's that's why I did it I wanted to it wasn't even necessarily a conference at the start It was going to be like more like a meet-up group Like a one-time meet-up where like maybe 20 guys would fly down who were really good And we'd have like this week or like a weekend or something where we would just go out and learn from each other But the minute I mentioned that on uh the mystery method forms, which is now love systems It blew up. Uh, I just posted the idea. I talked about it with a friend Who helped with the website and stuff early on and then I posted the idea and it got like Dozens and like hundreds of comments within like days Because people started I think I don't know it wasn't called under 21 convention But the minute someone said that or I said that or however it went down People were like, oh, it's going to be under 21 convention and like People just started like chewing on that like it's going to be amazing. I'm like, yeah, sure it sure it is Who's going to do it?  Oh my god That was so I was still I don't drink or do anything I do any drugs and actually the day I stopped the day I stopped was the day I spoke At the 2008 convention. So that's actually my date of like no more Like chemicals or whatever. I mean, I guess everything's a chemical but no more like drug use or alcohol use in in my body, but uh So it's it's really kind of a cool thing for me, but I remember I was so Wasted me and uh John and we were staying in this hotel next to the hotel that we spoke at for the lair talk Right. It was like a holiday inn or something. Well, you know, it's funny. The hotel you spoke out with john That was the original hotel.  So People go bankrupt everywhere in america, man But uh, especially that the time frame though like the housing crash and people started going belly up and shit That was a big time like 2009 2010 it hit me in 2010 when everything business wise had to change because it was uh Like people just didn't have the same money that they had, you know, it was it was just totally different But so what changed because even from 2008 to 2009 I know a lot changed with you You First we're talking about you personally with some friends basically we're talking about health and fitness stuff or maybe just health on the 21 convention, uh, if the 2008 21 convention and um, You know, it had different views than you have now, but then in 2009 It totally changed like so what changed with this vision? Like how did you go from wait? We want guys to learn about women and I think this is really important because guys get in the dating industry And then they're like, uh, we don't want anything to do with it Whereas it's so great because it's all men talking about men stuff and nobody was able to transition it To total man stuff or they completely denied the the dating seduction pickup aspect of it And said well like screw all that That's all childless shit Here's like all this other, you know stuff to talk about that has to do with men, but you unified it You're the only person I know that really did it. So what changed in 2009 to make it what it is today It's actually funny at the very end there you mentioned unifying it And that's something I realized that I like a lot about what Steve Jobs did with apple Is he's always about unifying it making it one thing and making it simple And that's what I've done conceptually. I think that you mentioned So learning about human life that did 21 mentioned is always an integrated thing It's not fragmented into multiple components multiple parts Which is what Steve did with apple and in every product they touched It's always like how to get everything into one thing without compromising And that's what I've done to the tea. That's what I loved reading about it with Steve.  That's exactly what I do um But you know answering your bigger question about what changed a couple things Psychologically two things big things happened that impacted me. My best friend died a few days after the convention So he was like on his deathbed during the 2008 convention He died of like a really rare type of cancer at 22 so and you know combined with being I basically I was effectively bankrupt at that point. I didn't ever declare bankruptcy, but effectively like there was You know thousands of dollars of debt and no money Um, so it was a dangerous it was you know personally dangerous time for me And you know stressful as hell Uh, I had you know the company that I loved that I'd built that was still young and I was young I had never dealt with anything like that before and then on top of well the convention was successful but then being you know, absolutely broke And you know indebted to a lot of people who were not comfortable with that and didn't sign up for that Was really stressful and really taxing And then my best friend dying was really stressful and really taxing. That's nice. I never dealt. Yeah. Yeah, keep going It's okay My grandfather died a few years before that but I wasn't close to him And other than that that was the the closest death We'll hit my grandfather dying was the closest death that experienced You know your relationship before that So my best friend died that was like huge like I had no no experience of dealing with that And those two things I think made me grow up really fast It's the reason people think I'm I'm older than I am I think a lot of the time and I'm calm and focused on what I do Because that changed me then but those two things in tandem Probably 60 40 being like bankrupt or very close to it and I'm a best friend dying So 40 bankrupt 60 friend and that was uh Just traumatic as hell man and like the whole month. I would say the whole month august of 2008. So when it really, uh when it really It transformed me or changed me For the better, you know, I didn't I didn't get I got depressed from it But that depression like very severe depression. I would say it affected me in a very positive sense So I was resilient. I wasn't just uh, I didn't just Confront it and do nothing with the the trauma that I was experiencing psychologically I grew from it tremendously and that's why then going forward. I think I was able to Encounter new ideas that were a lot better So paleo and hit specifically that year and then on top of that incorporate all those things into a new company Or the company itself that already existed that was then transforming Which you saw expressed when the 21 convention became 21 convention from the under 21 convention Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't I know it totally makes sense together, but man. So your your buddy had passed away Before the convention Right after it. I saw him like a week like a week before Um, and he was dude. He was like a skeleton. He was dying of cancer. Just he was eating him a lot Yeah So you were going through all of that when you were going to trying to organize all the speakers speakers not showing up because Uh that 2008 time there it was like you had A lot of guys there that were unconfirmed and you know Didn't show didn't show up people complaining, you know, that always well, that doesn't happen anymore But at that time, yeah, anybody anybody who's new to hosting an event you're gonna run into that even to this day Like you have that sometimes. Yeah, it's a lot less Like rob wolf was confirmed for the 2012 convention Yeah, which was a big deal. I had him, you know the top of the list almost Yeah him and him and McGuff for that convention And then you know 14 days before the event he drops just suddenly we need to confirm twice before that I don't have any bad feelings about it But it was still a surprise like this late in the game with doing the business.  Yeah, and he had he had some reasons as to why but still like stuff like that happens Um, unless so I think is you get better at, you know, running the business and hosting events Um So where was I going with this something and just about the strange Yeah, so, uh, well, yes, yeah, you were asking specifically about what I was going through And yeah, it was interestingly enough when my friend was on his death bed Me and another friend who ended up hosting the convention in 2011, or No, ermine. Oh really close close ermine chris Yeah, he cried at your wedding man. He was he was so moved. Did he there's something I'm pretty sure oh man.  Oh my god. I'm so sorry about that. But uh He was moved man.  I'm sorry bosnian But uh, yeah, yeah, I know I know I appreciate that but uh, uh, sorry ermine But uh, anyway This huge guy and you know, that's that but that's the power of it.   You tried to do it so you could sustain I don't call it um selflessness. I actually call it the inverse. I call it selfish But I understand how it looks like that Especially the sacrifice part because I am and like you stated I've made like huge trade trade-offs That for most people would be maybe destructive, but for me, they've been constructive So when I sell my cars two cars, uh some gold I had one year Uh, you know my boat that I've grown up with that I loved that I take care of really good over the years These things look like sacrifices, but to me they were the proper the proper trade-off to make at the time A little bit sad to let him go. I didn't cry or anything, but yeah, I didn't want to sell my stuff But I did because the higher value for me was the business and maintaining it So it was it was for the self for me. It was taking care of myself by taking care of my business And taking care of what's important to me, man And so when I when I mean selfish, that's what I mean and that is to me. Let's talk about this because my friend, uh Fred he's he's a dude that is There's even a connection with him in the 21 convention because I used to drive a lot I used to drive from texas to florida to go speak and I'd stop at fred's house in alabama in fact an attendee Justin from the 21 convention is who introduced me to to fred So pretty crazy. I mean it's pretty there's a lot of like influential stuff in my life, but fred was this guy That was in a wheelchair.  He'd swear a lot, but he said I was selfish. I was selfish and I was a no good human being 13 years later. This was some years ago. It's like I am still a selfish being But I'm selfish and I know who I am and this was like monumental concept for me, but when you talk about Uh knowing yourself because that's even on your 21 convention website self-actualization. What's it? What do you mean by that? Well, literally, I mean and this is not only literally what it means to me But also what I mean when I say it self-actualization is actualizing the self So bringing the self into reality specifically and that would actualize actual Specifically meaning the highest vision of your own self in your own life or the ideal vision of it Which to me is distinct too from perfectionism or for a perfect self Which I don't think has a whole lot to do with Reality like this earth So that's what I mean when I say it when it's self-actualization knowing yourself Well knowing yourself is a little bit different to me from self-actualization But they're both kind of in the same Direction towards Loving yourself knowing yourself taking care of yourself being selfish being rationally selfish, which specifically Limits you from doing things that are self-destructive Or destructive to others which I would believe is actually very Directly related to doing damage to yourself So assaulting someone emotionally or physically Uh, I think it's damaging yourself in the first place. So even though it doesn't look like it's doing damage to yourself It still is And where did you where did you learn that from? Because this is a concept we could talk about a lot. Yeah I would say that In a distant sense, this was maybe a decision I made when I was very young But I didn't learn it explicitly till much later Say it just happened to be I don't I don't know exactly what the roots of this are You didn't put it into application until Life well came along, uh I put an application I think as I was growing up Curtis my friend who died was uh He was actually instrumental in this probably because he was very he was a little bit older than me So he wasn't just a friend. He was almost Almost like a bigger brother like really close.  You know, he's very young too So I would say that because of him and maybe some other reasons too that I just happen to make uh Not in a very concrete sense, but I still made them right decisions in thinking and how to live life growing up And then when I came into the right uh source of knowledge growing up Well, not source sources of knowledge and encounter the right ideas I realized what I had been doing and that I it wasn't just an accident and that I liked that and I wanted to pursue That even further and that then led to things like I ran things like Uh, Greg swan more recently with the 20th mention and in his work Um, so yeah, it's been just an evolution and it always it hasn't always been either non-fiction It's not just like some dry, uh philosophical discussion where I just read with someone wrote it's like, you know, super long and drawn out It also has a lot to do with fiction. So we were talking about bleach earlier and like anime and uh I look for fiction that's selfish like this and that inspires me and I think even from a young age is what I was really really um Inclined to to view and to experience So then as I aged and I found non-fiction to think about this more deeply and more explicitly That's what ended up uh cultivating or Accumulating itself over time And then that makes sense. I feel like I'm just going off on tangents here Yeah, it does in a very anthony johnson way, which is so this is actually the beauty of what goes on with you Is you have all these ideals that are uh, you know get pretty specific and I'd say in the dating realm they're the least specific but Rather than you voice them You found the greatest people who are capable to voice them Voice them that's nuts. I mean in 2010's convention. Was that the one where mark sisten spoke? Yeah, 2010 florida.  I've never heard this stuff before. I've never heard about this You know primal paleo type lifestyle. I've never heard people. I've never heard a doctor speak. I mean that was the crazy thing There were these So just to put it in perspective. I mean really you you You came from like pick-up dudes are not necessarily the most together guys, right and still to this day There's like all sorts of craziness out there including myself You know, it's like I birthed from that and found myself to be able to grow up in it But the convention was so much a definition for that Because it showed me how it translated When it stopped becoming about Get get get seek validation. Um, you know, all that sort of stuff, uh It and started to become about how can you improve yourself? This is clearly something to improve yourself and we can speak on stage and be adult about it and, uh, Have a really powerful thing That came Especially I'd say big time when I started to see those speakers come on and even 2009. I mean, uh When drew bay started speaking and people really really had a big impression. Yeah, I don't want to drew bay It's really drew bay Meeting him in person at his house and then working out with them on the arts machine that he had at the time That was instrumental in getting him to speak and then when he spoke that was huge and getting other speakers to speak He was really, uh, having to thank for that person or permanently because yeah, him speaking was just Such a huge factor going forward and getting Guys like mcguff and bill dissonant and marxist and to speak It made it like because he lived in that area and we met and he trusted me It made that link that then led into so many other different areas And once it started, you know, it now has never stopped I can go into any I can get any speaker on those all not any speaker, but any speaker from any field Uh, I can I can really invite well you actually it's a it's a paleo fx keith norris's conference in austin texas You had Dave asbury approach you Yeah, him and army legy I think worked with him at the time They I didn't even understand how their company was structured at the time I thought they were both like owners of it. I think it's just Dave Um, and yeah, they came up to me and started talking to me and they wanted me to to look at bulletproof coffee Which I love after the fact But at the time I barely knew who Dave was Just a little bit because army had commented on my blog a lot And so yeah, they came up. They yeah, they came up to me and uh, I don't think it works with Dave anymore But they came up to me and Yeah, we started talking and then they wanted to speak and I was like, I gotta think about it Uh, and I look at his site and I was like, yes, it's great And then eventually, you know, a couple months later we signed on to speak and he did yeah I mean, it was an excellent speech. I 2012 in austin That was freaking awesome And then it does really well in viewership too. It's been killing it. It's been out for a few months And it has like 50,000 already, which is really good. Yeah, it's really good What the you know, that's what I always wonder about these guys because I don't uh, I don't pay attention to the youtube channel enough But uh, I do you do It's your channel, man I want to shoot like a hawk man, but I'm like, man 7,000 views for me and then I'll look at like a guy like Dave Asprey or or uh, you know some other people and it's surprising who gets views and who doesn't like I am surprised like early on AFC adam got mad views or adam lines, but now not as much and uh Yeah, that's true Like who else like james marshall. He gets pretty substantial viewing. He gets he gets a lot Yeah, even his new speech. It just came out and is doing it's got 12,000. It's been out for like two weeks. Wow So that's that's really good. Yeah, good. It's a really good. It's a really good talk too. So it's exciting to see that Yeah, he's it's from melbourne Yeah, the keynote the main keynote the other ones do okay his little opening and closing ones Well, it's closing ones that are yet, but the opening does okay But the main one I suspected too they would it would crush it it is And it looks like it'll be one that hits like 100 100k 200k over time Like a huge huge talk the funny thing about him even as well is that in the 2010 speech in london You saw the transition of james. 2011 That's right 2011. So one year you saw this huge transition of him In a year's time. It was well basically from like june or july 2011 to november 2012 it was like a year and a half. Yeah, I mean there was a massive change in who he was and what his company was and he's a Big big supporter of the convention as well And this is the this is the funny thing too is in this industry We meet a lot of crazy people So in fact, we were talking about it beforehand about some of the different speakers and like people flaking or people complaining or people that You know not to say not to say any names, but there was one year where Uh this one crazy dude You actually had to take like he had overstepped the boundaries Of the convention and you talked to him and he got really pissed and said he was going to make a rival convention and Oh, yeah Slated you personally and this is and this is actually what I wanted to get into when you were saying Well, that was dude. That was uh, that was no way that's happened twice or three times It's happened a couple times. I don't even I don't even know because I don't care Well, man, that's yeah, that's happened a few times. It's crazy. I remember on this one particular time He started flaming so hard and then old speakers from the convention were like, yeah, anthony johnson is He doesn't make any money.  I know it was a long time ago, man. It was 2011. He gives all this value for Like doesn't care about the financial reaping of it as much as maybe You do who are willing to sell shit, which like doesn't work to make money or whatever And it was just so crazy. It was like it was making the point But somehow they were like talking all this smack and I was like, man nobody knows how Crazy this dude is and so since then You have created a group of speakers That are basically great guys who support you support your message And the more and more the convention comes up the the fat is being trimmed off And it's it's pretty awesome. Or if you want to talk paleo, maybe the fat's going back on But anyway, no, you're this is this is actually very intentional Yeah, especially especially after reading some about more about the same jobs, but He had a thing where he only looked for eight players and I realized that over time. That's what I've been doing as well Yeah, I want to keep I want to keep honing in on that. I want the best of the best of the best I'm getting I want to get the best speakers. Yeah And yeah, it's pretty intentional. You also mentioned money. It's interesting. You're right Honestly over the years. I haven't cared about money. It's been second place So it hasn't been off off the chart completely But it's been second in a distant second to product quality Yeah, so specifically the events and videos And you're right. Absolutely right, but those have been of paramount importance to me This club is killing me It's back. I don't even know. Oh that big one. Yeah, that's keep going keep going So What what I've come to realize with the convention through steve jobs and especially his relationship with wasniac is that In the early years I was more like wasniac, but I think over time I've become a little bit more like jobs So the money part is becoming more important But not it's becoming equally as important. I would say as product quality For what I do in content quality with the company Because to me they're both important because I can't continue to build an amazing company If I don't have the money to do it and I want to keep doing that So I really want I actually want to make a lot of money at this point But I want to do so without compromising even even a millimeter not at all. But so that's why This is this is what's important, man Is that It's truly selfish in the right way whereas a lot of people want to make money just because it's the thing to do Or they want to consume something and That's stupid Man, well this I actually want to talk about this because we know so many guys in many industries And one thing that zuzu will always say he we have calls like all the time with tsl and our mastermind group and I mean there are 16 hours of group calls a week Every week. I mean that's how much like we we have a group. It's basically like a Men's group. It's it's the best thing in the world. Man. You should come on sometime, but um With the mastermind there's even more calls. So it's just it's ludicrous, but it's awesome It's so cool and all of my products are influenced completely By my group and it takes a long time for stuff to come out because they review it They critique stuff and I rearrange it But one thing zuzu always says he's like man I've never met a guy who came out of the pickup scene Who was good with women good at pickup good at whatever who didn't sacrifice a part of his life for it Who didn't end up with and he'll specifically say a chemical dependency problem some delusion of grandeur You know Yeah, well, man I mean the the crazy thing is is he says that it was so obvious at one point that people who were good with women Were doing it just to either cover up or distract them from the stuff really going on in their lives I think for myself I I knew I was crazy or while they're doing whatever crazy stuff And I you know, I just wanted to get laid a lot But but you didn't clean up that stuff.   I don't know how to live like that Like I literally don't have comprehension of how to live life like that and I don't think I've had that I haven't had that at any point in my adult life I just don't I don't understand it. I don't like it. I don't want anything to do with it I love myself. I love my company. I love my business. I love my wife my wife Uh, I love living on earth and that to me is really clear and it's been that way It's been really clear for a hell of a long time the entirety of my adult life And it's only gotten clearer over the years Man, let me time goes on and let me ask you this who who who did you learn the most from in terms of You know self love or self adoration Um, who was a really powerful person because you know so many people Outside of myself, right?  So it's you Yeah, uh, I would say that first and foremost. It's me, but that's probably not what you're asking You're probably asking me outside of myself. Yeah, what what uh, what person outside yourself? What speaker or you know any of that because I know a lot of guys influence you in a lot of ways definitely, uh I would I would say four people All four of them are dead sadly One of them was alive and two of them were alive in my lifetime two No, three Anyway, we'll go through it and it'll be clearer. They are how that how that works out So number one that I had a personal relationship with was Curtis my best friends um, it sounds like just a childhood friend, but really he wasn't he was extremely influential in Uh, how I grew up specifically in ages like I met him at uh, 13. I think I might have just turned 14 And then we were friends until I was like 20 so six years live over six years maybe And uh, that was a really, you know important time in my life as far as like growing Not just as a person But also I think physically as well like how my brain developed and the kind of decisions I was making And habituating over time and I think these were good things so It was just, you know incidental that we happened to meet and then become friends I think it was chance But we developed that relationship over time that friendship and he was a really good person to be around And him being dead is still to this day. It affects me Uh, it was it was a life changer for me that I obviously is a reversible and nothing I can do about it Oh, nothing I can do about it in a reverse sense But I can only now accept it and go forward with it and have it Have it support me what I want to do with my life and how I want to become before you go on to the other folks Like what what specific values did he instill in you? Like what do you see in your life today That you're living that Almost everything Uh to say everything would be a stretch but almost everything So it was just the way he the entirety of the way he lived his life He was you know, he never had a chance to get into entrepreneurship and careers and and do things creative in life But I think had he he had the foundation that you're now seeing me apply that was just absolutely marvelous for living the kind of life Uh of self-adoration and self-love and loving yourself and taking care of yourself He had that and it was really really good how he had it and why he had it. I'm not exactly sure Uh, it's something I think about but it's not something I've like formalized into ideas. I can just kind of Get out off the top of my head But to get some more specifics Selfishness so taking care of yourself without screaming people over That that lack of contradiction and being selfish It's really rare today. Uh, not just in philosophy and in written philosophy and discussion But also people living their life So even from a very young age, he loved himself He took care of himself and he pursued his values and he didn't apologize for it And he did that, you know, this is a kid, you know, I met him when he was 16 I think so he's a little older than me So even from a really young age, that's how he lived. He wasn't perfect with it. He made mistakes too Uh, but I think for how young he was it was just incredible to be around it You know, I know I know personally that's how I experienced it was just constantly Like I looked up at this guy and yet we were just like the best of friends So it was it was really neat to be around and really, uh Really rare.  Yeah um, and so those same things now I'm able to I suppose with with regards to him specifically in our relationship I'm able to look at the things he said What he recommended and what I did it was not right or was right And I was around him and we had mutual friends and things that would happen I can look at those decisions and I can I can extrapolate or pull forward Uh good principles from them Um, I've been above all because of who he was as a person I would also say too that, um He was inspirational So he really He did crazy shit, man Like he was constantly doing small events for his friends like really in 20 or 30 or 50 people Yeah, like you were talking about like getting both together at age like, you know 17 or whatever And just going out to like islands with like tons of people and just doing he would get he would bring he brought Like that's like the coolest high school experience ever, man Dude he he one time got arrested from like the coast guard and like uh The the water patrol and rain patrol because he had like he had like 30 people on like a 15 person boat So he had the boat was gonna like capsize and he everybody was like shit-faced like So he wasn't always the most responsible stuff, but He was always willing to do stuff and no one else is willing to do Like another time too.  I don't have I had good friendships when I was a kid, but I don't know anyone else From my childhood that was able to do that nor did I ever really hear anyone doing that No one had that kind of courage and integrity Did you things you bring up something interesting? You said like when you're doing stuff as kids, you know a lot of times it's your first time experiencing something You have the 21 convention You have a real clear vision for it right now and you have a lot of experience I mean, how many of them have you done 10? Yeah, so you've done you've organized a pretty massive convention 10 times But uh Those first couple times when was it that you felt success like when you were like, man This is Definitely not 2008 definitely definitely not that year when shit went south really fast really bad Uh, I would say I had it a little bit in 2007 when it actually was pulled off and there was a little bit of money made I made like a hundred dollars off the event So not not a whole lot of money exactly, but it was something especially considering Yeah, I was 17 and uh, you know, I had I had no experience with event hosting I just did it I just just went out and did it and had no idea what I was doing But I was able to pull off and not go into debt So I had some recognition of that But real success probably 2009 2009 made some money that year Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, not some crazy amount, but you know it made money Um, and that was that was good. That was a good feeling it was It was interesting to be post-event and actually have Not only not being dead, but actually have profit I was like, wow, I have I have money from what the from the work. I just did past 12 months Yeah, 12 months of work and now I have money So it was that was probably the first time I really felt it and it was a good feeling and then do you feel that it uh It was a good expression of who you are and what you believe in then None of that point With regards to the money because it even though I felt that success it wasn't really Uh deliberate and conscious Like it wasn't like a really big goal that then I hit and I was like, yes, I did it It just happened I mean like the voice of the convention Like it really spoke a powerful message of what you were like, man Yeah, I was uh, I was pretty excited when I changed the name and I was starting to put the videos out again for free Because in 2008 the videos weren't free So these are some big changes putting the videos back out for free And then changing the name and changing the direction of the convention.  What are you doing?  What do guys say now? Oh, like when you're asked for speakers Anybody who says it within recent years, I just like I just ignore it because it makes people retarded Uh, they're so they're so out of the loop so clueless and so They're judging a book, uh, so So distinctly by its cover.  I don't just just be totally still alone. I don't I don't care And like I don't I don't care to the point where it's like it's like a fly that doesn't even Like it I don't care it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense to me So I don't know what they're talking about like are they actually talking about the company I built like They're just stuck in the past or something Yeah, or whatever they're doing. They're like they're finding one video And then they're like, wow, wow one video is like this whole conference of like a thousand videos. Duh Which is not of course So does that answer your question? Yeah, I don't people say that And then they still oh, do they still say that I don't think so it's it's pretty far gone at this point Well, if you were to ask like let's say a high name speaker that you've never worked with before You know, they might be like, well, what you know, there's all these dating videos. I don't want to be associated with that I don't even It doesn't happen in this point I don't think probably because when I invite new speakers I typically introduce them to the speakers that are most relevant to them They have the highest likelihood of knowing so whether that's James Marshall or whether that's Mark Sisson or Doug McGuff or whoever You know, I bring that up to them first and foremost and that then kind of sets the tone for the discussion that we're going to have No one in a long time has brought up like But you have dating speakers like it doesn't if he if it does happen I'm not even registering it as something that's happening because I just like I just blow it off Because it's not true to me. It doesn't it's just a mistake that the person's making It's not some it's not some offensive attack or insult at this point They just At least if it is I'm not even registering it is that I'm just like this doesn't make me sense. It's not like it's not like that It's just a matter of fact to me. It's very I know what it is I know who I am and what I'm doing with the company is it's crystal clear to me and anything No one else can determine that but me. I'm the primary stockholder. I own it. I founded it. It's my company It's my baby So if anyone says anything that's uh, not factual about it just It's just nonsense. Yeah, that's one thing that's uh, that's interesting about you as well as in making decisions about the convention You'll immediately it's either yes or no, you know Yeah, and it's a clear cut and I even know like there are some speakers It may be like I'm always coming to you with speakers to recommend like but uh, if that person is in any way like Oh, man, it's hard to explain but there's a certain vibe of the wrong kind of selfishness or you know, just real In it for themselves type mentality. You'll just be like no Don don't want to don't want to deal with you and it doesn't matter how popular they are Like that's something that's very like your integrity is far more important than anything that will let's say leverage the company Um, and I think that's why you know money was a second very important I and it's honestly it wasn't as important that's I think that's why I had problems now It's becoming a closer second now. It's like all right. This is the fuel for the company This is the soil that I plant roots of the company and so I need to make sure that's good soil But I think because it wasn't a close second and it was like this distant thing that I didn't really understand Uh, yeah, that's why I have problems. I just didn't know how to manage money and handle things In of the rest of the people that massively influenced you just to circle back to it. Who who were they? Oh, yeah, um The three that are that influenced me the most uh, as far as like figures in history or even recent history would be iron rand Arthur Jones steeve jobs Uh, as far as real people specifically not fictional characters or anything Yeah, those three people in tandem.  This guy's awesome. And so how can people find out more about him? Uh, actually, how does he influence the convention with you? Well, he he founded uh, nautilus ink as well as medics Uh, and he produced a lot of other things too, but those were his two big companies So his writings, uh, well, no, I would say this I mean he he founded hit so high-intensity training which led me to found drubay and a million other speakers including bill de simone doug McGuff Uh scholar tanner and like, you know, many others on top of that now in in the future But high-intensity training is one aspect of what he did For me, arco jones is probably the first person I encountered that even though he wasn't an explicit philosopher He did a lot of thought and philosophy and on on human life and how he lived and he wrote that really eloquently for me Anyway, I mean it's very it's very abrasive and brash and those people This guy has cussed all the time and was like fuck all these people But it was I love the way he wrote and what he wrote And encountering that, uh, that was really really Uh Influential I don't know what other word i'm looking for here, but influential I'd say at the very least in terms of You know someone finding someone who really knows how to think and think hard and think deep And then on top of that applied out into reality to build a business worth hundreds of millions of dollars And not not just by chance, you know make them much money Like he made them much money because he made an incredible product. He revolutionized. He created an industry He created the the sports, uh The the fitness industry as you know it now it all comes back to him creating novel centers I mean for years. I didn't know what made Nautilus different and now it's so clear But I mean it does something which is really unique with building.   Uh, no Oh, I think mark alexander for a second. Yeah, it's funny. Um, they they live in austin mark alexander Keith and all these guys and I've worked and Keith is a pretty phenomenal. I've never been More powerful than when I worked on the arx the machine behind you. I worked on a diversion, but uh, yeah, that's right Right there. But yeah, I always talk to mark a tobre about fitness. I really like him and um, yeah It's just different when you talk to an expert and I remember in I think 2010 when I met Keith Norris It was clear from talking to him. It was with you. Um You met him in 2011. Oh, okay The guy was an expert. I mean the guy was an expert. Yeah, it was just so clear. He wasn't he's really intelligent. Yeah Yeah, but um that That was so cool. I'm not sure where I was going with this but oh with the nautilus machines because that's such a such a different way of Lifting and using your muscles and all that sort of stuff. Um Well, especially at the time it was invented. It was totally like You had nothing then uh Advertised and promoted but like barbells and maybe some dumbbells And it was all these dudes lifting in these like dark dungeon gyms And nautilus machines were not only better for the most part, depending what you want to do But for the most part they're substantially if not dramatically better than free weights And on top of that you can anybody can use them So the way they're designed you can have people go into an air conditioned facility like ally fitness or whatever You have ac you have lights music. It's not such a good thing.   It wasn't necessarily the dark age, but it was like a darker time And now it's like well lit. It's everybody does it. It's accepted as something you can do And sadly that then went into like cardio and stuff from the aerobics craze But at least it got it out of like just barbells and dumbbells that were like underneath a stadium You know, that's uh man this flies back the the thing is is that uh When I started working out with marco tobre, he had me hire a guy who was local and often but now Dude this guy this is the caliber of You mark mark is the shit.  Okay. Yeah, so um That was crazy and I can go to keith with this stuff whose equally is Um Able to show me the proper lifting form all sort of stuff. Yeah him and him and mark. I've always thought would get along really well Yeah, yeah, I don't know if they've ever talked, but I don't think so. Maybe no They're both fans of they're they're kind of different like keith is so american which I I like And a lot of ways I think he's just he's such a straight shooter But uh in true athlete. I mean was I think what's so interesting is noris athlete first Competitive like, you know learn that and then because of that Learned the proper ways of staying in shape and fitness and longevity. That's what I'm that's what I like about what he writes, too Is keith is like, uh I think he would describe himself above above all as a physical culturalist So he's interested in the entirety of anything to do with like using your muscles Which is a really broad thing But he's very explicit in being for that and in being interested in that And other people you don't usually see that you either see them just into athletics and things of that nature Or with hit just exercise and like anything that doesn't use like a model's machine stupid Which is not But that's kind of the it it puts you like in these categories where people don't like scholar says they don't Communicate anymore and they stop engaging with each other And keith to me is like as a person that has both of those things, especially being around skylar He has he has both of those down tight and mark alexander too being around him. Yeah, man Anyway, I started working with this guy luke leman who was in austin and uh, he's now one of the main coaches at the polykin institute in road island dude that guy He's like Very similar to keith. It's pretty awesome But he went through like 100 lifts with me that mark was having me doing of showing Like proper form what happens when you don't and man The gym can be a freaking day.   I was actually uh Lifting yesterday and I do free weights and all that sort of stuff. Um, man, and it is so easy I've talked about this with you before When you're pushing a certain weight that you haven't done or challenging yourself in that way It's almost impossible to maintain that good form And it really gets in your head like and you always bring up back squats Barbell squats and it's so easy man. It's so easy to lose form. It's so In fact, if you were to just go online and look at how to do them There's video showing you how but then to translate that into actually doing it It's so difficult because if you especially if you're going Olympic style and going all the way down Yeah, you have to rotate your hips. Everybody's hip joints are different too. It's just very difficult Everybody's different joints to not only at the top of that everybody's hips are tight a lot of time because they sit a lot So everybody has all these not only is everybody are everybody's bone structures a little bit different sometimes And on top of that everybody does different things in their life Like I sit on a computer chair a lot.  Yeah, he wasn't doing a barbell squat.     I don't know why you would imbeciles It's nuts man. Like your your life is so I love myself. I love my life I can't imagine putting myself in intentional risk In the pursuit of help It's one thing to get in a car and drive around and risk your life getting in a car accident But that's just part of living life But risking yourself of significant or deadly injury for all, you know In the pursuit of help in a better physical life.  I have no idea people get rid of this cognitive dissonance, but It's an interesting thing because I mean I fall into that category, especially in training martial arts I just recorded a video with ed because he's doing this man. It's really good stuff Yeah, he's been he's been telling me three million man. We recorded some stuff that guy is so good He's the best martial artist. I've ever worked with. I mean that I've worked with so many actually train at multiple gyms Now I train with a lot of guys and fight the UFC now and Who are great in that aspect and uh But defense and martial arts, you mean Well, yeah, yeah, I mean like you work like tim kennedy trains at my gym and he's a UFC fighter He's got a fight coming up with michael biz bing and on the 15th of april I think or something like that, but and that guy it's insane. You see this. He's a phenom You're the former army ranger. You see that guy work out. You'd hate it. He's got a barbell Um, I don't know how much is on it, but it's like 200 pounds.  Oh, totally man.   Yeah, it's crazy, man Man, so I wonder about that whole thing because like with myself Ed all these guys you get injured so much in training martial arts But there is a difference because that's kind of part of the process of training martial arts And there's a there's a degree of physicality that people enjoy with it where you That's that comes with the territory But you know in training jiu-jitsu you don't have to get hurt, but you can get hurt very easily But if you train carefully, so it's it's kind of a weird thing, you know Whereas ed came from a background Um Check out his 21 convention video ed aiken the killer instinct. I believe it's called but uh his company developing Developing okay developing Developing the killer instinct. I mean dude the guy When he was learning martial arts he was learning fighting he learned.  Let me get it. Let me get it. Oh I think I got it. Do I got it. Do I got it? No But um, but anyway, he uh, he had to learn fighting. I mean he street fought that's in Toxie has now all these like articles on it and shit with people that he fought and stuff But I mean you get you get injured you get you get crazy shit Sure, yeah, my teeth are chipped because of ed aiken so uh But anyway, man The deal with all that is is that it's so hard to find that balance And I think is men and this is where the 21 convention comes into play They need to have an outlet for how they uh, uh can exert themselves And a proper way to do it or a way to do it where they don't where it's not practicing self-adoration because that's tough They need a place for dialogue as sock calls it and I like that word a lot They need a place to problem solve and exchange with in dialogue with other people. I'm gonna get it, man um Yeah, they don't have that outside of the convention.  I think they call it new media, which I guess the tonic mention would be a small Not a small part of but that's one part of what's going on with the tonic mention And another way where you can keep I don't think you finish your thought. No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead Yeah, so the tonic mention is a part of the youtube revolution or like new media So I'm able to independently produce proprietary content on my own with company That I made out of nothing out of just a credit card like 500 bucks on it And I'm able to publish that on a on a platform that is a is a multi-billion dollar platform supported by an even bigger company Google And they get those they get youtube everywhere and through that through the channel. I have with them A couple channels now Yeah, I can get my content all over the globe instantly Yeah, I just put any time I put out a video you can view it wherever the hell you want in the whole world Right away instantly the whole thing if it's a full-time video, especially um And yeah being a part of that it's pretty awesome and I'm critical of google sometimes with the things they do, but I still am hugely thankful of what they've done with youtube Even though I don't I think it's perfect. Uh, just being Just being able to get on that and then on top of that monetize your content and just put ads in it like Like a television show.  You make it as high quality as possible if you want.  It's huge. It's like Triple or quadruple the average. I think it's like 15 minutes For you like and this is for like guys they go to a thing and it's like a convention speech They go, this is what I want to watch they click out of it Yeah, even with all those guys doing that you have 15 minutes That means there's people there's a lot of people going, you know an hour Watching your stuff, which is very sometimes sometimes longer, you know adam lions some of his talks and drew bay They have like two hour talks. Yeah, so if somebody watches that for two hours It like skyrockets the wash line is Well, they also have ads too So in long videos, there's like a billion ads so in a two hour video Just like a two hour tv show like a movie.  I think put in there because you do the same thing if you watched it on tv um Let me get into some stuff here the next 21 convention shoot Why is there there's only one last time in 2012 you took 2013 off 2012 you had three which were in england. They were in austin texas and in uh melbourne australia, which is melbourne and austin are so similar man. It's the I agree. Melbourne is bigger though. I in some ways actually like melbourne better, but because it has a beach, but uh england very different Yes, so why only one this year? You know why in tampa talk about that? Sure. I Oh, did I even announce tampa yet? No, I didn't announce that. It's okay. We'll put it out That's a that's an exclusive for the tsl podcast i'll announce florida uh from our wedding I put out florida because I was worried that People would be like man, where the hell is it like I need to buy like a plane ticket eventually Anyway, um one event there's a few reasons for one event set of three and that's only specific to that 2014 I won't say anything about 2015, but other than like, you know, I'll consider again multiple events I'm not like announcing anything for seah, but it it One event is not like a standard going forward for the convention.  I think I think I can make this like dollar for dollar like such an amazing value in a product in an event in a single weekend That one of those seats is like the most You know the best experience sitting in that seat for that weekend and going to the event experiencing it Is going to be like such an amazing product that it's just like jaw dropping Yeah, and that that also then relates to so one event rather than and that one event means for me focus So it's one event that I could focus on perfecting my craft and what I do with building events and being an architect of them So one event one event one event, but then on top of that that also relates to why it's smaller So 55 people was actually bigger than some of the other events in 2012, but Considering how big audience is growing. I think it's gonna sell out Uh, we'll see but my my money for my mouth is Um, but I want to limit it to 55 people rather than trying to lower the prices And get more attendees like we had like 100 guys in 2009 And I think I could do that again if I just drop prices people come But to me that's stupid because I don't want to do that I want to the convention for me is not about helping guys It's about building an amazing company and an amazing organization that does amazing things and produces amazing products and services that are just like You know groundbreaking they put dense in the universe as jobs would say I really want to keep doing that and I want to do that better than I ever have and for me that means Smaller events and keeping it small over time You've mentioned this probably over the years explicitly that if the event somehow got too big it would lose It would lose like it's sold it would lose its core of what it is And I agree events have attended that are have a few hundred people out them three four five hundred people Uh paleo effects. I'm not saying that they've lost their soul by the way This is just how they do their business. I'm not criticizing it for them. It's what they do But also like political conferences like liberty conference. I've went to like romp all and stuff When you have 500 people at an event. It's not the same thing as the 20th convention not not even close Obviously, it's not the same thing But even structurally and how it functions. It's completely different It being there as an attendee is nothing like being at the 20th convention And I want to maintain that like you mentioned with maintaining my integrity. I want to maintain The integrity of the company and of the events an event has integrity just like a man And it's just a seldom to quote from the fountain head sort of And I really believe that and what that looks like in reality is limiting it a hard cap of like 55 people So that it never gets Too big to where it now just becomes this like convoluted mess of people That aren't talking that aren't exchanging ideas that aren't problem solving That aren't speaking face-to-face one-on-one I mean if you go to the 20th convention and there's 500 people and Doug McGuff or you rattle lions, whoever You get swarmed by literally 200 people.  If that's what you want to do, but that's not what I have the vision for the company That to me is not relevant to to my goals in my life and building this amazing company with amazing videos And content and ideas and everything, you know And I think that's interesting with you is the event of the 21 convention is first before the youtube channel So a lot of people know it is this event which exchanges all this information, which it does worldwide But your main goal What i've seen and what the convention I think obviously shows Is not that I mean i've spoken at a lot of them I don't know. I mean, I guess i'm just i've missed two 2007 and then sweden 2010 But I think you're eight. Yeah, but uh, man So I've been at a lot and we've talked a lot and you've never explicitly said this but The event is the most important thing the event and it truly is if you've been to the event It's the most important thing if you're just watching it on youtube totally different experience very good I mean superlative and what I think go ahead go ahead Oh Jinx I agree uh, you know very very directly and explicitly because I think the youtube channel It is the quality it is, you know the videos are the quality they are Because the events are so badass because they're so awesome What you're seeing on in video over time over many years and eventually decades They're just like smaller reflections of what actually happened in the first place You have this amazing event that was then recorded the best way I could at the time And then divided into videos that were then published to the internet like books I don't know why we're just videos themselves So yeah, the reason the videos are as good as they are at all Is because the events are just are fucking awesome and you're right. That is where my focus is The videos are really important to me too though really important Uh, and I'm going to increase that this year as well That's part of what i'm doing with the company going forward as we're going to bump video quality through the roof But also keep that in check. It's always so good That's what I mean. See like just like that like everybody says that like yeah, his videos are awesome Dude to me They're good, but dude, I know that i'm capable of like a hundred times better Like I want the best I want the best videos in the world For what they are in our content space for what i'm doing I want to have like video that's just fucking killer, man That's really important to me and I want to hit that this year, especially Uh, we're going we're going forward But especially it's like a new a new era of the 21th convention like a new revolution Yeah, totally And it should be man, and I think like even your Your caliper of speaker that you're uh building up At this point I mean because a lot of us Spoken at multiple ones and the new guys coming in are even more and more like the new people Like I was at melbourne. I hosted melbourne 2012 But uh, james marshall's speeches were off the hook.  They were they were awesome I felt you know the Some of the new blood was was Yeah, yeah, but what you saw there was a speaker who had risen to a To become better at what he does james and then you saw this new guy coming in mark who I was just like man This is this is fucking awesome stuff. I remember sitting in the audience. I bought his dvd set Oh, yeah, just because I was like man, this is too good And then uh, you know since become friends of them worked with them worked with them from over the ocean man He's in melbourne austin, so but uh, man, you brought something up. Maybe maybe they're connected by like underground tunnels Seriously, man. They're they're very similar a couple weeks ago.  It was just it was bizarre because it's It's a good city, man. It's I got to go back You should interview uh, james social coach for james acclain. Yeah, you know actually, uh maybe for if this does happen the 21 convention podcast with, uh In talking to him It's weird. I was actually talking about this with, uh damien diekka And because he lived they both live in sydney, so they both, you know talk to each other and meet up Um with the tsl podcast I don't know because it just different voice different message So I i'm not sure I should probably like get on the phone with them, but nice enough guy. Um, oh, yeah But you brought up something about to bring it back to the t21c Uh, you brought up the idea of ted talks and we've talked about this like, you know 21 convention is like the ted talks for men But it's better in the sense that ted talks has become Well, it's so different You know, I think I found a thread the other day of some moderator or Speaker from ted or something on their website the main website not like tedx or whatever some offshoot But like ted and they were like should we do a men's convention? I did a search for men and like there was one talk that pulled up that was given a like a woman's conference Ted women or whatever they have And the people that the stuff that people wrote was like a lot of it was just like ridiculous and absurd but I realized uh At least this is my current thinking in a very broad sense That what really separates the 21 convention and ted too Is the the fact that they don't have ted men That they have stuff like ted women and all this other stuff they do and it's never they don't give a shit man As far as I can see clearly if they're not doing anything, man, I think like stuff like that is ridiculous But it's so typical of ted Um Because ted is marketed like if you're a speaker at ted you're like well, hey, you know Shmoos with all these other rich folks. Here's who you talk to here's the press events. Here's how you have to talk Um, you know, it has this Crazy authoritarian feel of it even though it's yeah, it's like it's 15 minute speeches Where and here's what I see man. There are some badass ted talks Let me just tell you there are some like really good ones that I like and that's about 5 So there's just so many ted talks, right?  Yeah, which like no one can do well No, not not to that level and yeah, they lack substance It's why the talks are short they shorten them because like they're limiting that out And so ted was this thing which is like carry this vision to the world But let's care about all this other stuff too their priorities are off in my opinion Whereas yours is like true expression of that person let the person teach let the person express And I'm gonna put it up there, you know, just how they say it And I'm gonna I'm gonna take the integrity of the speaker that I have faith in that they're gonna do that Whereas ted it's like man talk about this your speeches have to be edited. They have to be regulated You know, we're the brand that's saying this it's just such a different feel and at the events The the fucked up thing is is at the events. It's like here's who you talk to here's how you have to talk Oh, man, like like here other speaker Even the way you describe it. It just makes you want to vomit like Associating that in any way with like hosting a conference. This makes me feel like like psychologically nauseous Like it's just it's just so out. You're right. It is exactly opposite. We'll do the convention To meet the convention. It's yeah, it's about expression. It's about freedom. It's about independence And then with the attendees you're interacting with them. I mean that that was the whole thing man. It was like, uh I remember in 2008. It was like man, I'm broke. Let's try and make some extra money I think you made like 750 bucks or something which was the dinner Yeah, there's we didn't have what you now call the hero's dinner, which is included with your ticket But now it's now it's free you're paying for it's free But uh, but man it was like It was cool because it Had everybody You know work together and get to know each other and actually again We won't say some names, but if that dinner you remember it was divided some of the guys sat by themselves Oh, yeah The coaches and I was like what a bunch of assholes man and uh like come and help these people then Some of the other dudes who helped Then complained because they didn't get enough sales through it and as I've always told you it's like Man, I don't if I get invited on the today show I don't get pissed about what I get from the today show which actually You know there's all these marketers that have done all this statistic shit You don't make sales from that you get some clout or whatever But you don't really make much presence for being on whatever shows unless you're on like You know as a featured guest for opera, but not some five-minute clip, but At your event what speakers get is so cool and attendees is a great video of themselves like and a broadcast to an audience of You basically pre-selected people people who are looking for the stuff because you've built up such a brand And then you interact with so many different guys.   Um, I think it's guy marshal. I talked to uh Who's the dude with curly hair? He was uh At my goldenberg. No, no, no, no um Damn it Which event we gotta look at Melbourne Melbourne Oh, oh, but all the events all the events man. Um, I'm gonna find them on about quinn Oh, yeah quinn. Yeah, and um just just many many people but uh It's it's crazy. You know just massively influential now You brought up something about the reason having a men's conference Actually first off was there anything that you wanted to include the cover with the 21 convention Yeah, we're talking about this year that the change of one event at three. It's a big change. Yeah Uh the short version of that.  Yeah, that isn't that isn't necessarily my direct goal But I want to that'd be a really neat consequence to see if my work See you and some of the people that are really familiar with that'd be like, holy shit In what can you say you're going to change or influence that? Uh not being broke anymore So this past year I've actually been able to save up money and the way I'm pricing tickets the event's actually going to turn Profit rather than bleed money, which is not good bad for business out here Um, so the event is again. I'm not going to be able to I'm not I'll be able to but I won't I won't cut corners And carry risks anymore that caused me severe anxiety throughout throughout the event So for example, you mentioned the video is great, right? All the videos are great. They come out awesome under an hd We're filming with one camera, man That that makes me not sleep at night because if we lose any of it There's this one camera Lose that camera you're fucked man, and that's happened like that happened to gregs one, dude Yeah, it happened to gregs one happened to me. Well with the end of a speech Oh, yeah, dude. I know i'm sorry man, and that that's something that like gets forgotten But dude to me that's why you got to attend man Yeah, that's why you got to attend but I to me it says that is a representation Even if even if i'm skirting by with one camera a lot of the time that is dangerous And it's reflective of cutting corners, and I don't want to do that anymore That's not that's not what i'm about and that's not what this company is about So that's going to change we're not two maybe three cameras probably two to start with and then going forward to all three That'll help up the quality of the video substantially And i'm going to sleep better at night because now it shit. It's the fan We still have one camera and as simple as that is it means no matter what we have your talk reported and not carrying that risk of losing it all in one swing is to me huge It's huge for michael the creative director director of photography It's huge for the speakers that are in the know like you now You don't have to worry anymore if the talk's just going to get lost or something a little bit of it or the whole thing or whatever None of it and for me and for anyone else who's in the know with the company who's there's a shareholder who has some sort of uh leadership role It's not something it's still something to be aware of but now i'm not sweating bullets over it And a lot of things like that that a lot of people wouldn't have taken note of over the years But have been there the whole time and that's going to change there won't be risks associated with that anymore The hotel is nicer. We're saying the hotel's being or the commerce is being held at a four star hotel So a really nice hotel Got it at a great price so it works out and it's awesome hotel Which is hired. It's it's a higher quality Than any hotel we've ever had the conference at And it's it's changes like that that i get to make now because i'm not Because i'm not broke and i'm not bleeding cash I'm not underselling myself. I'm not undervaluing myself anymore. It's kind of been like limiting belief. I've had it over the years I know how awesome this event is and it's going to be even more awesome And i'm not going to under charge for it. I'm not going to under sell it. I know how valuable it is I know how Insanely valuable it is people who come so i'm going to charge for that I'm going to charge appropriately and i'm not going to then suffer the consequences of charging too little And you know shooting myself in the foot of your So that's all it you're going to see a lot of big stuff like that multiple cameras and such But more stuff too even like i want to do live streaming for this event Which i think is the main budget we can do and that might even be free not the whole event But i'll do like you know pixel like talks and i'll go out to the whole youtube channel I'll go out to like live with a few thousand people So things like that that i can do now or even maybe try to charge for it Not for the whole event up for pay-per-view Things like that they're going to get done rather than just some far-off dream of doing it Have money someday that would never otherwise come if i'm not from not valuing myself appropriately Uh and even little things man. That's what i learned from jobs too is it's not just big stuff like that It's not just multiple cameras. It's not just live streaming.  They're going to be amazing Uh, not just in how they sell you whatever But how they look how they represent the company in in a totality as a as packaging for what we're doing And so everything you interact with every person every chair every stage Every light we're going to have new lights for the stage as well for the speakers. So it actually looks A lot nicer. It's like every little thing like that. I'm going over and that's what i've spent this whole year and a half Doing that i've taken off i've refined what i what i want to do with the company where i want to take it And then specifically apply that out to what that's going to look like in Not just large detail but small detail as well And it's going to be just bad of the bone like astronomically better That's the goal anyway Uh of what you know what you've experienced in the past Which as you said was already awesome to begin with yeah Yeah, and it's funny because i remember in austin 2012 and then in melbourne, especially you were like man I'm not going to do a 2013 one. I was like man. Don't lose momentum Yeah, you did one of the rare things to make your vision actually better And that that's that that is rare.  Where is it going to be in a year or maybe Five years down the road something like that I want it to be I want it to reach its highest vision just like I want to live the highest vision in my life I don't want to just like think about it and like write it down. I want to live it. I want to do it I want to get it done That's Greg might say a quick swan his favorite word.  Um, that doesn't mean I'm like going to get there and then stop It means that I'm going to pursue that harder than ever before which already was hard as hell Um, and as far as the company the same thing. So it's not just my life It's the company as well as an entity in itself as an end in itself I want to make it just amazing Uh, that to me means 100 000s of youtube subscribers Uh, maybe other platforms as well like if whoever gets into like independent content creators Or netflix or whatever. I'm always keeping an eye out for that stuff. So it's making the company As best as it can the best it can be Which is probably going to be in some respects as huge as it can be So not the events but the online stuff all that the whole online presence Just huge And I want to make it, you know a really wealthy company that has That has options where I can do new things and find New avenues to create new products that are also awesome that fit the vision of the company and what I want to do with my life So, yeah, I want to make it a really wealthy company. I mean I keep mentioning apple. Look at apple Apple has such a small market share what they do with just say pc's But they've been like the wealthiest company on the planet I look at the tournament mention and like why can't I do that With respect to what I've created and in the context of what I've created Whether that's greater or not as Measurably as high. I know it's probably not as high as apple at some point. Who knows though. That's the thing is who knows Oh, why not? I mean why why not? Yeah, think about it like why not in the sense that you're really the only true men's conference out there had Had turned it down and let's let's talk about that man. Why why is it that there's a woman's conference But not a men's conference. There's such a need for it That's uh, that's probably a multifaceted Answer, so it's probably very complex because there's probably a lot of things going into it. I'm not trying to dodge it I'm seeing like it's not just one thing. It's probably it's a representation to me Of the organization at its at its fundamental roots. So what it is. That's why you don't see men's conference Well, I mean that's that's the other thing too. It's like, you know, many companies Ted we're kind of harping on them or I'm kind of harping on them, but uh it's that The 21 convention is doing something which has to do with your your vision and your voice and that is clear The vision of in the voice of the individual Whereas ted is like let's do the individual the the vision in the voice of what the culture says and the culture is saying that you know Whatever these issues are cool and favorable and profitable and then we can put a mask of You know, we're doing good Because we're you know these yuppie whatever mother fuckers and yada yada and we can pat ourselves on the back And it's such a different voice man. And it's like with man watch Damien diekka's interview and especially like he he said he's like man if I can come to Uh florida for that convention. I want to come. Oh, he would talk about this He said he would like I don't care about the dating thing or he didn't even talk about that at the uh melbourne one Um, he's like man, I'm gonna run out of dating copers at this rate Well, he was like i'll talk about men's issues.  I think may have been there for a reason But what it has come to is Is not a good expression of So women or Quality or whatever Bullshit it says that it promotes, you know, it's really a really a terrible thing whereas now Men don't have a voice. I mean, it's so huge.  I want to change the course of history for the whole world and in the ways I know how and the best ways I can and That is at the beating heart and in many ways of what I'm doing And what they're doing they're not they're just they're just like a mirror of whatever is going on.  I don't care. I care about what's right.  Yeah, I care about what's right and what's true And what's what robot flex reality what's what I want to hit that no matter what Like ideals shouldn't have a boundary or a regulation or a template to fit And that's what I see a lot happening with people's messages.   It's not going anywhere. They're not creating companies.  There's a guy who is uh, a pretty good friend of mine Um, and he also is part of our mastermind group which massively influences tsl I mean, it's basically the government of tsl and he basically He'll say he's like man with fitness.  So uh, but I know there's a lot of stuff we could probably talk about where we're like way It's like an hour and 40 minutes Jesus, man I probably might might even divide it up or show some teasers I want to ask you when let's release it in 10 parts and release it once a day How does that do? How does that do? It's it's built a booming business, man. Oh really? Yeah, dude. Yeah, that's cool, man. I'm glad that worked. I would never I would think it's so Much easier to watch the entire thing But it is but but that's like that gets them in the door, huh? Yeah, you know if you watch a tv show, man Would you watch it all of once when it came out or would you watch it as it came out? You know once week or once a day you probably watch it as fast as you could but that might not be you know If it's 24 episodes, you're not going to watch that straight through out of a marathon It's really it's really rare.  I respect I look back like when I'm going like man I want to change something in my business as I've said I think back towards you You are the dude that nobody hears that has one of the biggest voices in the world from men and for yourself If you accomplish everything in your life, whatever you project yourself out in the future and you think man I I did it. I did everything that I I've done What would be a nice consolidated message that you could give to your audience out there? You're doing it every day with your channel But what is the one thing anthony johnson would want to communicate to people out there in the world? Just thought of this off the top of my head. So we'll see if I have had the same message in 50 years Live the highest vision of your own life period Live your life and love it as high as you can as best you can all the time every day For the entirety of your life.  You're not going to get another one live it And you have you don't have to live it but you ought to live it and you ought to realize that and embrace it And you know up in I mentioned the highest vision that is important as well to that sentence If it's not the highest vision and you're just going through life like sleepwalking or like in this This flat line kind of zombie sense or zombie state There's no meaning to it and you're going to die.  You got this Awesome convention connection to people and I'm married now. That's right. We didn't even talk about that man We we should have next time but seriously on the tsl. But yeah, I'd love to talk about it. Yeah, I put a lot of thought into it Man, what what is it that you live for? Me. Yeah, what are the things that you live for? Or it's it's explicitly I live for my own sake. I live for my own self Uh, I like actually what Greg says about in contrast to what I am ran wrote about this Greg swan specifically speaks to uh loving yourself and living for your own self not Not living for others Which is like is putting it like in a negative sense. Like I don't live for other people That is true, but more importantly. I live for myself Um, but I mean like more specific values or specific activities there Yeah, whatever it is When I say life and your decisions in life. Yeah, yeah Uh, I like something that I'll steal from ran She said once that uh, she'd be willing to die for her philosophy, but she would try to live for it And I feel this so many about the 20 month convention. I would die for it, honestly But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me because I'd much rather live for it. That's the harder thing to do It's not to throw everything away that I have for the company It's to live with it and for it and to make it into the best it can be By bringing out the best of them myself as well So they're very intertwined for me and they're very they're very tightly knit and Yeah, that's that's super super super super important to me this company As you know just like your company. It's not just something I do or something you do It is like a paramount importance to me in life Yeah And it's you know, it's interesting too because I started it as a kid and I've never done anything else really But even so, uh, I think I made the right call when I was young and I made the right call sticking with it And going forward as far as I can seem to feature making the right call sticking with it and building it into the best It can be the highest it can be and The biggest the candy without compromising on itself. I don't have some interest in running I don't have any interest in running a large company that has like thousands of employees But I do want to build the biggest business I can while keeping it lean and keeping it tight keeping it focused And whether that means five people or 20 people Or it doesn't matter how many employees As long as I can maintain that without compromising. That's that's what matters to me Um beyond that at the cat I love conduct two chickens a wife Um, and I love I love video games. I don't I don't write about this a lot I do have a small blog for it, but I think video games are really Wonderful expression of art and of human life and creativity. It's a really huge complex Synthesis of it. I'm serious. This is important.  I laugh at it If it's if it's accusatory or insulting or offensive or something like that man, um, so yeah, that's that's that I don't know that's I love a lot of there's nothing I do. I think that I don't uh, even if I'm going through sequences of what's important to me in life So you'll see me blog about fitness or about health or about nutrition or about philosophy or about love or whatever These things are all really really important to me and I typically don't take on I don't learn about a subject unless I end up well, if I end up like caring about it, that's different But I don't take time to invest myself in a subject unless I can see with some level of certainty Significant level of certainty that I really am going to care about it or really do care about it right now And that it's going to be fruitful worthwhile to pursue Uh, learning about it and finding out what what truths can be found in that specific fields Whether that's dating or health or philosophy or love or relationships or whatever Or business or entrepreneurship or self-defense Self-defense is one that's on the back burner. I still got to get get into them I don't actually know a whole lot a lot a lot about it, but I think I know people who do Let me tell you like Ed Ed Aiken I know like we recorded some stuff the other man Okay, so there's martial artists on how to fight then there's martial artists who've been in like 20 fights with like Two like like where people are trying to kill them with like knives Like bats, whatever crazy stuff Drugs have gone bad Not because of him, but because of some of the situations that his instructor put him in Um, I mean he trained under paul voonak who's who trained seal team six and uh, but the stuff that he was showing It's in situations that you get in when you're in a street fight if you end up on the ground If you're if you're standing if somebody approaches you with some type of force gun weapon, whatever I mean, it is crazy. It is crazy stuff that he was showing that is It's like you well not learn in a jujitsu class or a kickboxing class But if you have a background in those things it will help you phenomenally I mean it was nuts. It the guy's trained with so many people and like I said, you know, uh Bravo and I steve will talk a lot of this stuff, too There's just the difference with that man. There's uh, you know, bravo attends a lot of conferences and Works with that some of the greatest fighter type Self-defense guys tactical guys There's a big difference with guys who have repetitiously been in environments where they were You know threatened man, they had to get out you had to or you got and he says even sometimes He's like man.  That's how we learned 20 to like 30 He learned under this crazy dude Who put him in these situations and I mean It's just cool. I I do want to immerse myself in it and learn more about it And when that happens, you'll see more self-defense speakers come to the convention I'll talk to you and I'll talk to Ed and I'll find I want to find more guys that are really top of the game in that field Yeah, I talked to Steve too Bravo Oh, I meant you but yeah, Steve. Yeah, exactly. He was the first speaker who spoke on self-defense. Yeah, he was the He, you know, got my foot in the door with it so to speak and now we had Ed I won't have more in the future as well Yeah, but yeah, it's something I I still don't know enough about it to where I can invite like a handful of speakers to speak on it Like and even and even all the like survivalist guys. I mean they get pretty ridiculous, but uh There's a lot of great information. There's a guy I did A podcast with 2020. He's an amazing dude. He lives in Melbourne. He's an American But he studied all this Native American stuff and learned how to trap and live out like it's crazy How to trap and live off the land and like all sorts of different situations. He mainly did it for learning the philosophy of you know, certain tribes and whatnot, but uh, I mean survival skills It's some pretty off the hook stuff.  Yeah, people don't they don't take things into consideration like that random events The other thing that I'd say too is just man the It's just a cool guy thing to know and it makes you feel good about who you are What's that merrily? Merrily is coming in there. That's all right. We should wrap it up. Hey Anthony Johnson kick-ass time and um, well, I guess we'll have you on again just to talk about other stuff Because there were a lot of things that flagged up in my mind that uh, oh, I should tell us some give me five seconds here The tickets are they're going on sale in a few days So, you know, this will be on a few days and then the tickets will be up like right after that So, uh, people who want to come to the 20th convention and get tickets now Underneath the video. It'll be a link somewhere. I'll put whatever They're gonna stop. I believe there's only 55. So It's gonna go out to like 50 000 people plus and there'll be an early bird, right? That is the early bird ticket. Yeah, that's what they should buy in advance as well They get like 30 off approximately. It's a lot. It's that's yeah It's a good And that's only if like the first five days the ticket's gonna be on sale and then after that it goes back to normal price so full pop Um Yeah, and then in the future they can buy tickets again, but if they don't sell out right away I don't know if they will right away, but if they don't they can buy tickets in the future But they'll probably be a full price. The sales will be pretty rare like once every two months, maybe So you have to really watch it like a hawk to uh, what you can if you want and then you get a discount But the best discount the best price is always day one So let's take a pre-order like on a game talk about video games pre-order on a game Well video games the prices go down the tickets. They don't they go up So by now as they should as they should yeah, they think it's closer. So it uh Yeah Tickets prices will go up and look I think they'll run out at some point I'd be surprised if they didn't so We'll see if I'm surprised or what I think is gonna happen is gonna happen It's been uh, it's been great being on your team. I just wanted to say Yeah, yeah, yeah, man We'll have to do it again and and all that sort of stuff and you've got so much to say I think the more people can get to know you the better because you You know, they see the speaker up there, but they don't know the guy that is truly shaped And cultivated it, you know and orchestrated this whole movement, which is very very cool Thanks, and uh, I completely agree I love I love what I do. I love what you do too, man. It's about like being on here And I watch what you do all the time. I don't tell you this but when you send out emails and stuff I easily take a look at them in your site and I look at what you do And it's great. It's like just like with the sales stuff we've been talking about Man, it's it's tough. It's tough. There's dude. There's not a lot of people in our industries that That do really good stuff. It's usually like all crap So there isn't a lot to look at but you are definitely a person to look at Yeah, it's tough, man. I and that's one of the things is like how to again That's why I go back to you. It's like you you've number one state in business. You've made Yeah Yeah, but that's where I too in any business people, you know sell out all the time Which uh just disgust me It's terrible. It pisses me off.  Why does everybody think you need to you need to throw that under the bus for A couple minutes of success that isn't even you people do that with their dating life People do that with their business people do that with every freaking choice that they make It's terrible. I know hold out and be yourself and learn how to be yourself better Find the hero in your own soul. There you go. All right, man. I'm gonna cut it But uh, it was bad to the bone peace