I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for joining us here at eCraft and as we start, I would like us to know who is in the room before we officially start the program. And thank you so much for making it as we wait for more participants to join in. Please feel free, feel welcome. I'm sure everyone by now has taken a cup of coffee feeling warm. So welcome. So I want us to know who is in the room. Just introduce your name, your organization, just a quick round of introductions and make sure you press the speak button so that our online participants can also hear. Okay, we could start from here. Hi. My name is Hitao. My speech is not so good. I come from several of them. Thank you. Thank you. Let's move to the next. We are doing a round of introduction, your name and the organization before we officially start. Press the speak button so that our online participants can hear. Yes, I'm Dr. Munele and I'm an exporter, but also working with the Sibos Society. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Good morning everyone. Good morning. Society of Kenya. I'm glad to be here. Thank you. Most welcome. Good morning everyone. My name is Peter from Vegpro. Thank you so much for inviting us and great to have one honest with me around. Thank you so much. Good morning. Thank you. Good morning everyone. My name is Beatrice Joki from Embo. I'm a producer. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, good mornings. My name is Tom. I work for Dyrin packaging and business advisory services. We support the avocado value check. Thank you. Good morning everyone. Good morning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you. from Meme Shamba, a platform for market access. Good morning. My name is Mukami Gitao. I work for AgroCare's Dutch Innovation Company that manufactures sensor-based soil testing equipment. Good morning. Zippo Rakuria, I work for the IPM Association, located in Ruiro, Kambu sub-county. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Kamanzah Musal. I represent Manzoni Plantations in Loy Tok Tok County, one of the large orchards in Kenya. Good morning. My name is Kelvindongo, representing Olivado IPZ Limited from Rana. Thank you. Good morning all. My name is Ann Maina, from Citella Acres Limited, and I am a grower and exporter. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I'm Antoni Moriti from Antosiavo. We are exporters working with the farmers from Rana. Thank you. Hi, everyone. My name is Alphai Luta from Stockholm Environment Institute. So, good morning, everyone. I'm Romano Zopio from Stockholm Environment Institute. Thank you. Hi, everyone. My name is Charity Waini from Stockholm Environment Institute, also. OK, I think we have two more. Pauline. Good morning. I'm Pauline Mesheria from Stockholm Environment Institute. Good morning. I'm Anderson Kibila from the Stockholm Environment Institute. OK, thank you so much. And I'm Cynthia Citati, work at Stockholm Environment Institute. At this point, I would like to invite Dr. Romano Zopio, who would give the opening remarks and officially start this workshop. Welcome, Dr. Opio. Yes, good morning once again. I think it will also be fair to give opportunity to the online participants also to introduce themselves, because I can see before I can give my speech. Only the online participants, maybe I can start with Lawrence. Yeah, good morning, participants. My name is Lawrence Zovey. I'm from the Stockholm Environment Institute. And I'm happy to be here, the workshop. Thank you. Thank you. Matthew. Yes, good morning, everyone. My name is Matthew Langdon. I'm from the European Clement Foundation and we're partnered with SCI on this. And I'm from the trade program at UCF. Good morning, Matthew and Fortunet. Good morning. My name is Amiyami Fortunet. I'm the deputy executive secretary of STECO, manager of the presidential program and a partner in this project. Thank you. Thank you, Fortunet. So, colleagues, I want to take this opportunity to welcome you to ICRAF and to sort of this particular conference. But I would like before I can make any speech also to recognize all of you and more particularly, Ernest, for blessing this occasion and Ernest, I want just to give you maybe a minute just to say something because this is also your constituency. If you can step up and just give some few remarks, then I can give my remarks after that. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much. One of you, STECO Environment Institute staff, members of the Avocado Society here present. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I'm actually most humbled to be here today for this workshop. It's because of years ago, a great gentleman who I happened to meet, Chagan Giesbach, spent a lot of time piecing together the characterization of avocado and other fruit crops for the benefit of nutrition in this country. It's a man that we, one time, as the Avocado Society nominated and gave an award. I can see Kamansu here at Vegbro here and other heroes that last week we gave them awards because the Avocado Society recognized these people in this journey that are committed to sustainable and profitable agribusiness. So it's great honor for us and for me to be here today as the CEO of the Avocado Society of Kenya and to pay great tribute to the World Agroforestry Center aircraft. Because when the history of avocados in this country is written, there will be a chapter for aircraft because the story about avocados and growing and encouraging farmers, because avocado is actually a forestry tree. So without much ado, I really want to say that we want to thank the conceivers of this project because EU is really one of our great markets and we have challenges. But we feel the challenges are not insurmountable. And when we have someone walking along with us to make sure that we right the wrongs and we make the land flat so that we can actually play our great role in providing market access and changing livelihoods and creating jobs for our young people. And of course, improving the economy of this country is something that we are happy to work along and to support with all that we have. So thank you very much. Like the rest of us, Hamia, so that we can start this journey together. Thank you very much. Thank you very much and may God bless all of you. Thank you. Thanks very much, Ernest, for those opening remarks. And we are really happy also to have you around and other participants. Colleagues are also like also to give opportunity to Fortunet, who is our partner in this particular project. Fortunet, if you can also make some few remarks. Yeah. Thank you, thank you, moderator. As I said, my name is Amiyan Fortunet. I'm the Deputy Executive Director of STECO and also part of this implementation of this project. So STECO is one of the institutions, specialized institutions in the EAC and we are based in Kigali. But obviously, looking at the science, technology and innovation in the seven countries now and we have added the eighth, which is now Somaria. We have many projects on the EU Africa market, especially with the Maka project. And the EU market access for Vakedo Agribusiness is very important for EAC in terms of accessing market in the EU. So accessing European market for Vakedo Agribusiness involves complying with the European regulations and standards. And one of the areas where we need to understand is the understanding of EU regulations. First, from raising our standards with the EU regulations, which are related to the import of the condos and also the EU-specific standards. EU General Food Row or EU Plant Heritage Regulations are very specific regulations for Vakedo that we should understand. Without forgetting the quality standards, we have to ensure that our Vakedo's meet the EU quality standards. And this includes factors like size, weight, color, absence of pests and diseases and also implementing good agricultural practices to maintain high quality standards throughout the production process. I also have to comply with the EU phytosanitary requirements, which prevent the introduction and spread of plant pests. We also need to ensure robust to the stability system to track the production and distribution of Vakedo's by maintaining actually three codes to demonstrate compliance with EU regulations. And also ensure that all required documents, documentation including invoices, certification of origin, phytosanitary certifications are complete and accurate. We also need to look at certification. Considering obtaining certification such as Global AP, this is good agricultural practice and other coconut certificates can enhance our profitability over Vakedo's in the EU. We need also adhere to EU packaging and labeling requirements to ensure that the packaging materials are safe and comply with EU regulations and provide a clear and accurate labeling, including information of origin, variety and also relevant certification. And in addition, we need also to engage with export, support agencies work closely with the Kenya export, support agencies and agricultural authorities to stay informed about the latest EU regulation market requirements. We also need to seek assistance from agencies that can help with the market access, certification and export logistics. Obviously, we need also to build our relationships to ensure our relationship with EU importers and distributors, participating in trade fairs, events, showcase our products and network with the potential buyers. We need to also stay informed about the market trends where we stay updated on the market trends and consumer preference in the EU. This knowledge can help you tailor your products to meet the demands of the market. We need also to continuously improve and access our production and export processes based on the feedback, market changes and the evolving regulations. In conclusion, therefore, by following these steps and maintaining commitment of quality, compliance, over-caddle business in Kenya can enhance our chances of successful access to EU market. And we need to keep in mind that regulations and requirements may evolve, so we need to stay informed and adaptable to the conditions and standards of the trade. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, fortunate for that. Yeah, so colleagues, let me allow me to make this speech.  So I'll just go down to the speech. So first, Mr. Matthew Langdon, European Climate Foundation. Then we have Mr. Munyambi Fotunet, Executive Secretary Esteco. Then you have Mr. Ernest Udomisi of the Avocado Site of Kenya. Partners, including the avocado agri-enterprises and also participation from the civil society's organization. So let me first welcome all of you to this important workshop on EU market access for avocado agri-business in Kenya. The workshop objectives are to first share project findings on climate smart avocado production, management practices, including the challenges and opportunities across the avocado value chain, the EU market requirements, and the niche development of the avocado value chain. So is a forum also platform for sharing of the findings of this project. The second one is called developing the avocado agri-business, the practical recommendations to overcome the production, post-harvest and market challenges across the avocado value chain. And as stock environment institute, we know that even as scientists, we don't monopolize knowledge. So co-creation is one of the key way of ensuring that the stakeholders have greater input in terms of how we can co-develop solution and totally to discuss sector-specific strategies and guidelines for implementing the combination. So as stock environment institute, you want first to appreciate your own of each and every one of you in playing this particular topical issue and particularly pleased with the support we are receiving from the European Climate Foundation to provide scientific leadership and the role of a steco of promoting and coordinating the development, management and application of science, technology in supporting regional integration and socioeconomic development. So the avocado is just one of the entry point in terms of the regional focus, terms of science and technology. And I'm happy that here as experts, we are able also to learn from you. So as an international research and policy institution, whose focus is how we can bridge science, policy and practice. This project gives us a good opportunity to support and provide evidence-based opportunity to use avocado value chain as a basis of trade between East Africa community and EU and hoping that this will also provide guidance to other agricultural products from the region. I know maybe now you're focused on avocado, but I know also as experts, we might also be following other products which might also find their way to the EU market. So it's a good opportunity also for this. Yeah. So this effort should not be seen as benefiting the trade between ESC and EU market alone, but should also be embraced as a culture. As a culture, we need to adopt and embrace as East Africa community and also Kenya because the findings will be focusing about the Kenya products. And also in promoting innovative, competitive and safe food products for both our local and traditional market. Also we value ourselves as local market as local consumers of avocado. So these are good opportunities to improve even what we also circulate around our local market. So we look forward, continue partnering with the European Climate Foundation. East Echo agree entrepreneurs, policy makers and all interested stakeholders in developing favorable policies out of this research in scaling up this work to national and regional policy level platform for consistency uptake of the results. So Stockholm Environment Institute is a strong believer of science, policy, practice, nexus. So whatever we gather here should also inform some policies and if it's informed policy, it should also inform practice so that we are consistent in terms of how we use knowledge to develop ideas. So now it's, so it's now my humble duty to invite Mr. Matthew Langdon from the European Climate who has been very kind to grant us this fund to help at this project to make his remarks and officially open this workshop. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you for that very kind introduction and thanks to everyone for being with us bright and early this morning. So as I mentioned earlier, my name is Matthew Langdon. I'm from the trade program at the European Climate Foundation which fundamentally sort of looks at how the trading system can be used more purposefully for the climate transition. And so I also especially wanna thank Anderson and the team from SCI for bringing us all together this morning on this really important initiative. I'm gonna keep my introduction brief because I'm calling you from the COP 28 today. I know we say we only have one planet but sometimes the COP really does feel like a different world. But what I did want to say about part of the reason why the European Climate Foundation decided to team up with the Stockholm Environment Institute on this project is that we see through venues like the COP but also through other international fora that there really is a growing rift between developed countries that had the chance to industrialize a long time ago and developing countries that have every legitimate aspiration to join them. But so there's an increasing concern that the requirements that jurisdictions like the EU put on imported products make it harder for producers in developing countries to trade their way to a better livelihood. And this is exactly the opposite message in the opposite policy that we are at ECF are hoping to send and are hoping to see. In a world that's increasingly at risk of climate disruption, especially for agriculture, trade is not only going to be a tool for food security but also for a globally just transition. And so that's why we're very happy to be able to support the SEI and its work on climate smart value chains for coffee and avocados in the East African community. And I'm really looking forward to the discussions and the insights that will take away from our round table today. So thanks again for being here. And with that, I'm happy to declare this workshop open. Thank you so much, Matthew. And thank you everyone for your attention until this moment. So next, I think we'll go for a group photo, then a tea break, then we come back for the second sessions where we'll have presentations and breakout sessions. So Pauline, maybe you could guide us on where to take the photo or a group photo. You go outside, then the stairs, that's where we'll take the group photo. So I hope you guys, you all have a relaxing 15 minutes break, refresh to start with the core of our workshop. So we will continue with some very key highlights on the research that we've done to showcase some of the results. And after we have about two presentations from two of our project staff, after the presentation, then we will have a few minutes to get some questions from the group regarding what has been presented. And thereafter, we will now go to the breakout groups. We will have to deep dive in terms of how we relate the results to the particularities on the ground and then get, if there are any mismatch, then you highlight that. Now we also incorporate to the report that will go back to the donor. And then we now see how to start engagement so that they actually get into their policy documents to facilitate trade for East African avocado farmers. Okay, so I will just begin with, sorry about that. So I'll begin with the workshop objectives as earlier alluded by my colleague, Romanus. I just want to reiterate why we are here. We are actually here to understand the challenges that avocado farmers are facing on the ground in terms of production rather than to the market. So what are the production challenges? The storage processing. So we are looking across the whole value chain. We actually identify those key issues. And then later on, we will now go develop some of the recommendations that you think will be practical in terms of overcoming those challenges. We actually have already some recommendations in the report, but we want also to bring that together so that we validate some of those recommendations and then come up with a very comprehensive practical recommendations to overcome those challenges that have been faced by agribusinesses on the ground. Then the third objective is now to develop specific strategies. So from the recommendations, what are the strategies that we put in place to implement those recommendations? Because as I just learned from one of our colleague that those recommendations are already there in the books, but yet nothing is being done on the ground. So does the gap want to fail? What are the specific strategies that need to be done to implement those recommendations? In terms of the outcomes, it's just simply to enhance the understanding of the challenges that we face as well as opportunities that exist. And also opportunities are there to actually upgrade the entire value chain from the production right up to the market. The second expected outcome is the recommendations that we will have from all participants which we will go in the different groups looking at the different stages across the value chain from production, post harvest, as well as right up to the market. And the market here, even though the project is focused on the international market, but you also have to look at opportunities to explore both the local and regional markets. Let's not forget about those two key markets as well. And last but not least, the specific strategies that we will all develop to implement those recommendations. So those are the three expected outcomes from this workshop. I will now hand it over to my colleague, Elizabeth, who will now proceed with the next phase of the presentation. Thank you, Anderson. As you've all heard, I'm Sunguti Elizabeth. Mine was to look at meta-analysis, comparing climate smart practices under control without these climate smart practices, mainly focusing on avocado within the East African community. Then maybe a quick definition when you talk of climate smart agriculture. Currently, we know that climate change is quite an issue that is affecting production. So as much as we are producing, we need to make sure that it's sustainably such that our productivity increases. We are able to be resilient to climatic stressors and at the same time mitigate greenhouse gas emissions. And then the methodology, mainly I want to provide you an overview of research findings on alternative climate smart avocado-based practices within the East African community. The meta-analysis integrated findings from both gray and peer-reviewed or academic literature. This was based on 287 observations or treatments from 35 studies. When I talk of observations, it means that within each study, they are comparing on one side a climate smart practice, against a control without the climate smart practice using the conventional ways of production. And then what the meta-analysis does, like once we look at the various climate smart practices, we try to integrate them together to find a mean. Like if we put this climate smart practice into practice, how would the yields compare with the conventional production without the climate smart practice? And based on our research findings, we find that when the climate smart practices are put into practice, they improve avocado yields by 29.3%. Like if one farmer does the climate smart and another one conventional, like the one with the climate smart practice would have 29.3% more avocado yields compared to one without, then intercropping and improved avocado varieties, intercropping increases yields by up to 56.7% while improved yields that, this include yields that are climate resilient, they are also able to increase yields by up to 46.2% while organic fertilizer and irrigation both had similar small positive effects, which increase yields by up to 26.6%.  And then based on research, it's been found that effective implementation of these practices have the potential to simultaneously reduce greenhouse gas emissions, enhance productivity and improve the resilience of the farming systems in the region, even in the face of a changing climate, ensuring sustainability of our production while at the same time mitigating climate change effects. Basically, that's all I had for you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Elizabeth. So we want to proceed from there and now look at the opportunities to improve productivity and sustainability of avocado value chain in East Africa. So we are going to look at some of the challenges that are being faced in each and every stage of the value chain. We are also going to look at the opportunities for upscaling the value chain in each and every stage and then look at the cost for transitioning to sustainability and then look at some of the policy issues that are needed. And then from there, this will inform the discussion that we are going to have to now trying to interrogate some of these results and also try to beef it up with what is actually happening on the ground. And that's why we decided to ensure that we have the key stakeholders here with us to have a focused discussion with the stakeholders. It's been alluded to already the importance of avocado. Avocado is very key in East Africa and more so in Kenya in terms of economic growth, terms of rural development, foreign exchange earnings. But there's a lot of emphasis now on sustainability. And with this emphasis on sustainability, it has led to re-evaluation of the avocado value chain as well as a shift towards adopting sustainable practices because it is not a mere choice right now, but it is a requirement to impress sustainability in the production, in the processing, in the storage, in the marketing of avocado. So it's not a mere choice because in the global context, there's now prioritization of climate resilience, this prioritization of resource conservation, this prioritization of ethical practices. And it is therefore imperative for the avocado value chain to adopt innovative approaches to conduct business. So sustainability of value chain offers not only the potential for conserving the environment, but also enhancing livelihoods. And my colleague has just mentioned when you have some of these climate smart practices in the production, it increases the yield. So it helps not only in conserving the environment, but also enhancing the livelihoods through increased yield. It also facilitates the market entry. When you talk about the market right now, people are very conscious on what they are actually eating. So when you go to supermarkets, in that section where we have the organic products, you realize that it's even more expensive than non-organic products. So even in the markets, in the EU markets, they're also looking at some of these sustainability aspects. So it facilitates market entry as well as upholding the integrity of avocado products in the context of our global trend. So when you look at East Africa, you realize that there is very high potential for avocado in East Africa. And actually, when you look at this particular graph, you realize that Kenya is actually leading, the one in trend. Kenya is leading in production of avocado compared to other countries. Ethiopia is also coming through, it's part of the Eastern Africa. So it's not East Africa community, but we consider Ethiopia as Eastern Africa region. So you realize that there is also very high production of avocado from Ethiopia, although Kenya is leading. But the key highlight here, you realize that even though Kenya is leading in the world market for avocado, most of the production is done by the small-scale farmers. And we were just having a discussion when we were having our coffee break on some of these issues and the challenges of this. So production is mainly by the small-scale farmers. And with the small-scale farming, you realize that from the research that you've conducted, most of the varieties that are grown are indigenous, actually 70%. But now there is this transition from the indigenous varieties to these high-valued varieties, like the forte as well as the has avocado. But again, also when you look at the transition, the trend, we are also now moving also from the forte to has, because there is a lot of preference for the has variety of avocado. It's very good high resistance to pests and diseases. It has high oil content as well. It's also well adaptable to our conditions in East Africa and particularly in Kenya. And that's why there is some transition from the indigenous varieties from forte to has production and hoping that this will enhance our production. And hoping that this will enhance our productivity. You, when you talk about climate smart farming, which is one of the key things that we are actually looking at, we, as I mentioned, the global context is now prioritizing climate resilience issues. You just heard from our colleague from the EU, who's currently at the COP and he tried to mention some of these aspects, the aspects of ethical issues in terms of production, ethical issues, how do we ensure that we ensure that we conserve the environment when though we are producing, we conserve the environment, we conserve, we ensure that we enhance biodiversity.  So how do we ensure that as we grow avocado, we also try to ensure that we don't affect the biodiversity, we don't pollute the environment and also mitigate or adapt to climate change. So when you look at the sustainability practices along the avocado value chain from our discussions, and I know it is going to come from the group discussions, you are the key experts. And as we said, we want to co-develop some of these highlights that will then help us to come up with proper policies and documents that will support our community, support our farmers, support the exporters to access the EU market. So there are various sustainable practices along the avocado value chain, which I will just mention, I know some of them will also come from the group discussion and I'll just highlight those that were evident. So under production, you realize that farmers are now trying to get themselves in soil and water conservation from the discussion that we had again, you realize that there is a lot of water that is needed for avocado growth actually. So mulching, some farmers are using a mulching and the importance of mulching, it helps to conserve soil moisture, it also enhances soil fertility as well. We also have variety selection, people are now going for those varieties that are highly resistant to pests so that they don't use pest sites or other chemicals in their productivity. Also those varieties that will be able to enhance higher yield without addition of some other properties. Then on water efficient irrigation, we realize that some farmers are now using proper technologies, some are even using sensors, especially for the large-scale farmers who are now using sensors for water irrigation, some are using the drip irrigation just to conserve water as part of the sustainable practices under production. When it comes to processing, we are talking about reduced wastage. Now, my colleague just mentioned while we're having a discussion here on when farmers are supposed to harvest the avocado. So the proper timing of avocado is very key because proper timing of the harvesting of that avocado is very key because it helps to reduce the wastage because again, if you harvest an avocado that is immature, then you are going to waste most of that avocado and also to accessing the market. So you reduce post-havest loss and also value addition. Then we have on transport and storage, we have the issues of code chain management. Farmers are now trying to work with those companies or organizations. I know we have representatives of some of those organizations here have visited some of them in Muranga who have cold chain facilities. So they get avocados and then they store them in those code chain stores just to enhance the shelf life of avocado. Under marketing, we have issues of traceability and transparency. Now it's very key with the buyer has to know exactly where this fruit is coming from. So there's element of traceability and also supply chain efficiency. So I'll now move to the challenges. And the main challenge here in terms of production of avocado, you realize we have issues of pests and disease management. So we need to address the issues of pests, see how we can be able to mitigate pests and disease threats. We are talking about the quality inputs, some varieties, some farmers are talking about access to these varieties. Again, it's another challenge. There's also a gap in the adoption of contemporary agricultural practices that could enhance productivity. And then there is also the necessity for climate resilient strategies because of the issues of climate change that I just mentioned. Then under processing, you realize that quality control challenges is a bigger issue. And especially for us to meet the international standards, then quality is a key. So quality control challenge is a big issue. There's also a gap in initiatives that could enhance the value and marketability of processed avocado. There's a, we need to invest in modern and efficient processing infrastructure. And I think that's one thing that we are actually lacking as a country. And then also we need, there is lack of linkages between the producers and the processors. So we have to foster these strong connections in the supply chain for a more seamless and efficient avocado processing industry in East Africa. When it comes to storage and transport challenges, we also farmers are also facing farmers and also processors are facing some of these challenges. I just alluded to some of them. So we have an issue on the protocol. So we have to ensure that there is improved storage protocol so that we don't lose most of our avocados after harvesting. So post harvest losses is a big, big challenge. We have to invest in infrastructure that will ensure optimal storage conditions. So because of the inadequate cold storage facilities, we have to ensure that we have proper infrastructure. I'm happy that some farmers and groups are coming together to develop some of this infrastructure to improve the storage. There's also limited awareness of proper storage techniques. And so we have to address this communication gap. How do we talk to the farmers when they have what kind of storage that it will be required? And also the packaging materials. So we have to, there is lack of suitable packaging materials and therefore availability of suitable packaging materials is very key to prevent spoilage and extend the shelf life of avocado. When it comes to marketing, this is where there's a big issue, limited market access and information. So we have to improve on market intelligence systems and enhance access to the global market because this is what we are all targeting. So, and also this is influenced by the inconsistent product quality. So we need to have standardized practices. And this, and as Fortunet mentioned from the East Africa Sands and Technology Commission, when you do not address, we, there are various standards that we have to adhere to. And if you don't adhere to some of those standards, then you will not be able to meet or access some of this market. Also export barriers and regulations, which of course we are going to mention here. So to enter the EU market as it was mentioned, you have to adhere to some rigorous quality and food safety regulations. And there are various elements, crucial elements here. You have to adhere to some compliance with certifications and from the discussions that we had this morning with my colleague, that getting some of these certifications is also expensive to some farmers. It costs very expensive to get some of these certifications, implementing contemporary pack houses or developing connections with global purchases is a big challenge. And from the farmers and the exporters, some of the limitations that they face are here as you can see, delays in transportation, excessive certification requirements, bureaucratic processes in the registration system, the seasonal nature of our crop, the need to ensure quantity and quality standards for avocado source from small scale farmers and also the practice of harvesting immature fruits. So farmers will always go whenever there is someone who wants to buy avocado and I was in Muranga, they even steal from the farmers. So long as there is someone who's around and trying to buy avocado. So there are people who are going to steal. So because they are stealing, you want to harvest your fruits prematurely. So we have to adhere to minimum harvesting quality standards. And for farmers, they have to be informed on some of these minimal harvesting quality standards that are required. More on limitations, inadequate grading and packaging, lack of the adoption of post harvest management technologies. We are the slow response to changes in export market preferences and also the policy. Matters concerning specific export countries or our destination. There's also the storage facilities also lacking, cold rooms at seaports along the shipment and also some shipment cancellations, delays resulting from reduced and elevated insurance prices due to associated risks. And these are some of the challenges that of course the exporters are facing from the discussion that we've had. Despite all these challenges, we also have opportunities and the key opportunities that we can use to elevate or upscale the avocado value chain in East Africa and particularly in Kenya. And for farmers, as we mentioned, they come together, some of them are forming groups. From these groups, they're getting information, they're getting resources, they're getting some access to credit. So formation of groups is very key, though it was very lowly mentioned. But the key thing is access to financing for the smallholder farmers, training and capacity to build the capacity of farmers so that they are aware of some of these standards that are needed. How can they be able to manage and access the market use technology for precision agriculture and also adoption of farming technologies that are sustainable. When it comes to processing, we have value addition, training on post harvest, handling and processes. We are also talking about research and development like what we are currently doing, trying to identify some of the issues and challenges along each and every value chain and coming up with solutions. And those solutions that are practical. And that's why we have people who are working and who are dealing with these crops like ourselves who are in this room to give us practical solutions. So through this research and development, we are able to come up with evidence informed policies that will be able to be implemented to support our farmers and ensure that the value chain is greatly upscaled and also investment in the processing infrastructure. When it comes to storage, the key opportunities under the storage also tap into collaboration with logistic companies. We also need to adopt innovative storage systems for reducing post harvest losses, establishing robust cold chain infrastructure just to prolong the shelf life of this avocado like I mentioned, collaborating logistic companies I mentioned. And then also there's this interconnectedness of transport and transportation because storage and transportation because again, farmers are facing a lot of challenges but I'm happy in most of these areas where we are producing avocado. We have now groups that are trying to support in terms of storage, counties are even also coming on board to support some of these challenges farmers to ensure they access storage and also reduce the transportation cost for the farmers. When it comes to marketing opportunities, we have to develop robust marketing and branding strategies. So we have to brand our products so that we create a distinct identity for the East Africa avocado. We also need to explore the international market, expand the avocado sales beyond just the regional borders and I'm happy like for Kenya, we are already there. We also need to establish relationships with retailers to create efficient distribution channels and then compliance with quality and safety standards that I mentioned and also fortunate mentioned some of these standards which are key for you to access the market. The EU is also one of the key opportunity that we have to tap into and what should actually encourage us is that there is very high demand for avocado. Every time even us in our families under our diet, everyone wants to have a fruit and most of the time you realize the fruit is avocado. So there is already an increasing demand for avocado. So there's market, that means that there is market for avocado. Another good thing is that our production methods are also emphasizing the ethical and environmentally responsible practices. And of course, we know the consumers in the EU market are conscious of some of these sustainability and fair trade awareness. And it is also good that our farmers, our producers, our processors are also aware of some of these ethical and environmental responsible practices. So that's a good thing that we encourage. Also acquiring certifications like the organic fair trade, the rainforest around, I know they are already here trying to support farmers and working with consumers on certifications. Now for you to get to sustainability, there are costs and from the discussions that we had and the literature that we interrogated, there are various constraints that are first to transit to sustainability. And key among it is the financial constraints because you have to, for you to move from the conventional way of doing things to now sustainable ways like organic cultivation, agroforestry, eco certifications, you need money. So for some farmers, for some processors, for some marketers it's a big challenge. So they face financial constraints, also training. Training farmers is also very expensive and for those who are doing marketing here, you realize that for you to even train those farmers and groups on, for example, when you are supposed to harvest some of the practices that you are supposed to adopt, it's also expensive because you need to spend money. Infrastructure, like the code chain infrastructure, it's also expensive to, of course, to establish. So those are some of the challenges. We're also talking about skills, the new skills and knowledge that is actually needed to get to transit to sustainability. So when it comes to policies, what are some of the key things that we are talking about, what we want to advocate for? One is access to this financing for small holder farmers because as we mentioned, that's one of the key challenge and then building their capacity, their capacity to keep them with the knowledge, to understand what are those standards that are required that you are supposed to do. If we talk about certification, we talk about ripening. So you have to enhance, to build their capacity and also capacity in terms of resources, some of those infrastructure that is needed. We also need policies that will enhance market linkages for sustainable avocados, so ensuring there is a smooth entry into the market. We are also talking about climate information. So farmers need to be aware of some of this information. How do we ensure that this information reaches the farmer in the right way? We know there is a lot of climate information out there, but it doesn't get to the target group. How do we ensure that this information is translated into products that will be consumed by the farmer? Also, clear environmental regulations that will guide sustainable practices and also invest in avocado forecast research and innovation. That's what we are actually doing together with EU, trying to solve some of these challenges and trying to make sure that these challenges get addressed in policy issues and having proper institutions that will be able to support farmers, marketers to get to the EU market and other global markets. And as my colleague mentioned, not just the global market, but we also mentioned talking about the regional market in East Africa, like what is TECO, the East Africa Sands and Technology Commission Executive Secretary mentioned, we also need to impress the region and also trying to enhance market within the region and also locally, the domestic market, how we can be able to get to the domestic market and also the issues of inclusivity. So I know as much as we are talking about the value chain and all these key things, we also need to ensure that the needs of women and also the Bancelana's groups are well adhered to in the policies that we are coming up with. So thank you very much for listening unless you have any question. Yep. So you can speak through the mic? Yeah. Thank you very much for the wonderful presentation, Dr. Rih. Perhaps just to ask, you know, data is key. So do we have a hub for the data and who is the custodian of this data? Thank you. Any other? Yes, thank you very much, Dr. Rih. That is really a very insightful presentation. I have a question to not you, but to Elizabeth. She did speak about intercropping, giving better results. I was somehow lost in the process because I was wondering, is it intercropping with what? Could it be intercropping to mean maybe us is a V of Wetter? Could it be Haas or Wetter and Maze? It wasn't really, really very clear. So I was just very keen to actually appreciate the need for that intercropping view of it. Okay. Maybe to answer you, when I talk of intercropping, it's not one variety against the other, but intercropping with other crops. Yeah. It could be Maze. It could be legumes. Yeah, generally intercropping with other crops such that you're able to produce your avocado simultaneously as you produce your other crops. Thank you. So maybe I can go with the data. I know Fortunet would have given out a very comprehensive answer to this. I know that's what exactly is TECO is also doing, trying to ensure that Fortunet are you online? So just to ensure that this data is available and is used by key stakeholders within the sector. So Fortunet, can you respond something? Tell us something about data. Thank you. East African community through the second Maka project have developed a database for ESC export and import data on avocado and coffee. And it is already operationalized. We are now producing reports out of the database and any other access data that is associated with the avocado. So this information is available. I'm going to put the link to the chat and it can be accessed through the ESC webpage. Thank you. Thank you, Fortunet. Thank you so much. So now I'll hand over to Anderson. Thank you very much, Luta and Elizabeth for that very comprehensive presentation. And I believe that's provided some good insights on the avocado value chain in East Africa, which of course, Kenya is one of them. And I believe you all resonate with what was presented in terms of the challenges and opportunities. So now we will now go into the breakout groups where we will deep dive into those challenges and focusing more on the realities on the ground. What we've done is based on literature, combining all the evidence that's out there on the shelf, both from academic and grade literature. Now we want to get your views as well to add to the results that we have. So that we have a very comprehensive result as well as recommendations of accomplished challenges across the value chain. So I guess the best approach would be, we have TV groups, one group will focus on production, the next group on the storage and processing and the third group will deal on the issues of marketing. So I believe I will leave it open for participants to go where they feel comfortable based on their expertise because I don't want to take a farmer and put the group of market where he or she has not to contribute. But if for one reason or another we have a group that is not well represented, then we will figure out how to navigate that challenge. So I think group one on production can be on my right side. Then group two on processing and storage far left at the back and then group three on marketing at the center. So based on your expertise and where you feel you can contribute, group one, production, center marketing, far back, center marketing, yeah, far back production and processing. So I think that's the best approach for the next section. With the presentations from the group work. So the rapport tours can take us through their findings. So a maximum of five minutes each so that we can move to the next section. If you just, so the rapport tours, especially those who are writing on the charts or the chair persons. So we'll start with the producers. Dr. Sitachi, I can start. Before we start, I request we stand. Before we start, I request we stand. Sibi, Yambura, are we set? You know some of us have really gotten full. So can you stretch, Kevo? And this one, bed, I'm not said we sit. Yambu, Yambu, bed, then you'll make me to repeat. We can sit. Thank you. On behalf of the wedding team, I have this presentation for you. Production challenges. Number one, access to the right certified. Siddlings. Two, the cost implication element. Not only to set up the orchard, but the entire value chain is cost centered. Three, there's a huge knowledge gap around the different parameters around the avocado, seedlings and even the fruitings. Some of them, we don't even know how to pronounce them. Is it fruit or fute or it is which fred word? Then is the jambu or it is the jumbo? And all the others. But the main knowledge gap is around not only those varietals, but also a lot of information lacking on the soil health, if not the soil nutrients, that is meant to be the supporter of the different varietals that you are planting. Then there's also the lack of knowledge at the point of transplanting. Who was in the marketing team? Polite question. How many meters for you to transplant? Meters, yes. I'm talking about spacing. No, for you to transplant the seedling. How many meters is it supposed to be? Okay, how many feet? How many inches? Oh, you're talking about the size of the hole? No, the seedling. Oh, okay, the seedling. Oh, call it the height. Ordinarily, ordinarily beyond the knee, I think it's okay because for as long as that grafting part is actually a keyword, I think us and when it gets closer to the knee. How many months? How many months, four months? So how many farmers have that information? How many producers have that information? I hear you. Do they know about their soil health? Cassian? Nitrogen? Do they? Do they know the original harsh gold and the fake and the scum? And then the cost of the inputs and tied to the inputs, the quality of those inputs. We even went political. How genuine? What is the quality standards of the free fertilizer? The farm inputs, besides fertilizer, this manure, the seedling, what is the cost of production in terms of the inputs of those particular orchards? Then what availability? How are we accessible to those market inputs? And so it puts the orchard in terms of started capital to be on a higher scale. How about the management of the pests and diseases? In the first place, do the producers know those pests? Do they even know or have the know-how of those diseases? At what point do you harvest? And how do you harvest? And do you have the tools to harvest? And one gentleman trying to describe to us how it is done. I reminded me of our school days where our parents would wait for the day the school was closed, keep the books, go to the farm. True? Not in your place. This is put in different color. Ask the writer, not me. And we said it is because of the current regime. Read it. You'll know we are in very punitive tax regime. Is it not a challenge? Solutions. Number one. We may want to request the likes of Kelphis to publish a list of the certified nasalis among some of the arms. Number two. Most of the challenges that we mentioned are tying in terms of solutions. So we were looking at how the engagement of the right stakeholders can be done to address those challenges. Other challenges were also being tied by a solution of capacity building and empowerment. Capacity building and development. Most of the questions are posed to my brother Tom. You realize he's trying to weigh his mind to get answers to. Not that he doesn't know, but most of the farmers are ignorant of some of the solutions or some of the challenges they have in terms of strategic solutions, if not answers. So calling therefore for a lot of training, a lot of empowerment and exposure. Some of the strategies that we're trying to propose would be one, subsidies, grants, donations, and at times donations in the guide of the certified right seedlings. Number two. We need to have a concrete financial master plan. This time, involving the right key stakeholders. Three. Shedding of targeted training programs and especially targeting the producer. Tied on that. Establishment of centers of excellence that can be used for these training programs that can be used for exposure. Still, we could have model firms. What was that firm owned by CSRMs? Right. For instance, we would have that firm as a model firm. That the farmers, that the producers can go in and have that training done or get some exposure or get to know the centers of excellence in terms of best practices. A big debate around partnerships and joint ventures so that we are able to brand synergies around strengths and weaknesses so that we are able to grasp the opportunities as we also face head on some of the threats. Number four. Because at Wezan in Agawa and especially on things around punitive tax measures, we leave some things as macro variables. But where possible, you can take the EPZ route and I'm not saying and I'm not encouraging you to evade taxation. But it is a route that you can take. In conclusion, we had an assignment for the gentlemen and ladies who invited us on this session so that we observe Wangari Madai's slogan. It is not only about talking. Dig a hole, plant a tree, water it, nurture it, let it grow. So one of our action points is could we have a quarterly review of such a session with case stakeholders so that we don't leave it here, we go for Christmas and we forget and even forget Dr. Adderson. What will happen when we meet in heaven? Number two. We need to explore the carbon credits. Do the producers know about the carbon credits? What's the status? Are they aware? Is there any training? Can it be a revenue stream? Number four. We've got model firms. We've got centers of excellence like what Mr. Mosaw was suggesting. This environment is excellent, ideal, very good. What of we'll be found ourselves in a farm, a model farm. We could have eaten a couple of bananas if not avocados by now where we're interacting with the soils. The best practices. I've already done it, perfected it. Where you are being shown, this is a calm avocado. This is a certified one. This is a fake one. This is a counterfeit one. Could we consider to do such visits? And courtesy of one of my members of parliament, we've already secured a slot to visit this farm. The rest are not invited. Number four. We cited Del Monte for reasons best known to us. But for some of us who might have visited Thika Road, you realize that they don't have a fence? Sure. And there's no theft of their pineapples. Yet, our number one threat, not challenge, threat of avocados is theft. Nando, we put this full stop there. Any question? Yes, I understand. Yes. That is why we put it here as an action point for policy. Because we do not want to take the Del Monte route. That if it is not dogs, you have somebody up there, that one who will mount us. So that was team production. Yes. Thank you for that question. Most of the farmers have approached banks. Most of the producers have approached banks. But you find that many of them don't have a tailor made solutions for them. That is number one. Number two. Most of us, we have got pieces of lard that we can use as collateral. But you find because there is no existing infrastructure, like now of the orchard, support what I may call repayments of loans. The banks of financial institutions will find as a risk. So they will not be able to tie in that with a loan or with a facility. The government has been watching. It's not there. It's not existing. Same to other financial institutions, apart from the banks. So as a policy framework, we were looking at if there can be deliberate and intentional conversations around a policy framework that can establish financial master plans. That zeroes on a high value club like avocado. And with proper sanitization of the right stakeholders, we were seeing like we'd make a breakthrough. Investors? Yes. International? Yes. But on a round table like this one, where we have a convergence of ideas and synergies put together. This was currently there exists none. There was a mention of equity bank. They have been trying but they still find agriculture and especially for avocado for startup as a risk. So they don't want to be involved right from their onset. They want to come in when you have struggled at the latter years when you're almost going to, you know that whole when you don't need them or you already perfected your art. Point into that start with you right from the initial stages where you're able to craft and call in a plan that you can work with. I gave us the background that we are seeing. This is more of a very capital intensive project and especially when you're doing it for commercial. And once again, you're also looking at making returns. You'll not make returns if you're talking of smaller courageous. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, just one. We are limited time to. Okay. Thank you very much enough for that very good presentation. I think the financial institutions do not understand the value chain. So probably we might pump a lot of pressure so that they get to understand the significance and the contribution of the value shown to the economy. But what I also want to just add is that at the necessary establishment level, you spoke very well about the clean planting materials, which is fine. Certified nurseries. I know HCD has got a list of certified nurseries present I think just about 78 listed in the website. So you can imagine the whole country, but we have bought several, several nurseries. So I agree with you that certified nurseries should actually be accessed through KFIS or HCD. But again, the establishment of mother blocks as a source of sion. I think this is something you also need to consider. I know Calvary has got out three mother blocks for the whole country, but I think that is not enough. We need to perhaps also have a discussion around establishment of mother blocks as a source of sion to these nurseries. That's what I wanted to add. Thank you, Tom. And that is why, thank you. And that is why you ended up having both checklist of the A or B. And Cynthia is my witness. Cynthia, where are you? Yes, where we were politely, but harshly requesting or pinning her down to ensure the next quarterly evaluation that is spearheaded by saying it is involving the key stakeholders. The key stakeholders we are talking about are the carers and the carers of this world. Why not the peers of the related industry of avocado if it's not agriculture? They may not do anything, but they get to know the action points that are being put forth so that if there are any bills or any engagements that you may want to take at the government or ministry level, they can take. But we were looking at this is an engagement of a conversation that may not stop here, but may need to be driven to the next level where everybody is brought on board. Peter, or you want to be here again next year and we're in the same hole? Yeah, that's why I said I start with the winning team. Thank you. Let's clap for them. Thank you. So we now move to processing and storage. Five minutes, please. As they get organized, there's a form that is going around. Just indicate the area of operation or your office location where we can easily. Good afternoon, everyone. I have five minutes and I'm representing the processing and storage group. I'm Rose Mosisho and I'm happy to be here. These are the challenges that we picked from the group. The first challenge was quality control. So basically we looked at all the challenges that had been listed from the presentations and then we tried to prioritize the ones that we felt were based on priorities. So the first one we saw was quality control. Of course that affects, I think we will understand the quality of the product of the avocado. The second one is insufficient linkage between the producers and the processors. I think we discussed the fact that 80% of the 80% of the fruit that is exported is exported by 20% of the exporters. So the question was how do we increase this number because the other 80% of the exporter also want fruit. So we need to find a way of linking the processors with the producers who are also quite many. The third one was post-service losses due to poor storage and inadequate cold storage. I think the issue was farmers, we will harvest and then the fruit stays on the farm maybe two or three days before it gets. Of course that means the quality of the fruit is also affected. So then you have lots of losses after you've harvested the fruit. The other one is lack of information and high cost of cold storage facilities just following that one closely. And then finally is lack of capacity building and support to the brokers. We felt that the brokers or the middlemen are very instrumental because they work with small scale farmers, they also work with some with large farmers, but they help to bridge the gap between, they help with B, the insufficient linkage. So in terms of solutions, for the first one, which was about quality, we looked at farmer training and compliance in terms of post-service production and post-service handling. The farmers need training to understand how to handle the fruit, how to harvest. And then of course, besides the training, they need equipment. Some of the farmers may not have access to the tools or the equipment or even the PPEs for harvesting so that they don't throw the fruits on the ground. Can they have bugs and all that? Then of course, when you look at equipment, you're also looking at dry matter testing because of maturity. This is also something that could be explored as a solution. Third, we talked about value addition of rejects because we have rejects on the farm that you leave behind because they are not good quality, but then there's also rejects after processing. So we, those rejects could, we could look at having value addition for them in terms of crude oil. And I think we were talking about puree and other products that we could look at. Then of course, integrated pest management to minimize the reject. The other one would bring cold storage solutions closer. I think I've mentioned this when I talked about the quality of the fruit when it's harvested. Then we have pay for good quality. I think the question here was, if you invest, say, in the cold room, maybe from the farm all the way up, there's no incentive. So you find that for the processor, they have different brands, but then there is that the is not able to get a good price if they invest in the cold room in the cold chain. So the question, the solution we're looking at is for premium quality service, if there could be then a price that then matches what the investment is in terms of cold room in terms of just being able to put up a good product. Then the other one is setting standard prices for international markets. I think here we're looking at, we see the role of Avocado Society of Kenya where they share prices of currently they share prices in terms of what the prices are at the parkhouse. So we're trying to see can we have the same system where we have prices being shared for international markets so that then everybody knows the good quality product costs this much, that kind of thing. Then in terms of insufficient linkage between producers and processors, the solutions we are proposing were information access. I think one thing we saw is the use of course of social media, the use of technology to disseminate information. So we need to upscale this. We are doing a good job, but we need to reach more farmers or producers in terms of enabling them to access information. Another thing is extension support from the exporters. I think we're looking at how do we provide extension even for the farmers as exporters so that then the farmers are able to know what it is they need to know. The person was presenting earlier said the other one is aggregation centers closer to the farmers. I think for this we're looking at being able to maybe provide a center where the farmers are able to access the cold room they're able to access. This is a collection center that could maybe I had him talk about an ascent of excellence that then allows the farmer to be able to pull their resources, the small scale farmers and then be able to access the processors. So I think that we saw that as a possible solution. The last solution was on high cost of storage. I think we're looking at a rent to own model for this cold storage facility. So what we're looking at is having farmers pull together and then you're able to either deduct from how they're using the either they are supplying and then you can be able then to pay for the what's it called the cold storage or whatever it is that you're supplying them. So we're looking at that as a possible solution. Then the other one is training farmers on entrepreneurship. I think this one we discussed the fact that in as much as we are putting farmers in groups, sometimes farmers are disappointed in terms of you expect them to supply you a certain volume and then when you go, the volume is not there. Because they don't have the commercial serviness to know that if they commit to five times, then they have to supply. So we're looking at if you could have them trained on entrepreneurship so they understand the business sense of it, then they can be able to supply and be able also to take up some of this infrastructure for themselves as a business also. So in terms of lack of capacity building for the brokers. I think we'll be looked at registration by the relevant government agencies, I think that's already there, but I think it's not enforced, we still don't have all of them registered. So I think the idea was having what did you call it, but brokers or good conduct, you know like brokers who are able to follow and do the right thing. So registration for those brokers then they're also of course training the brokers, but also training the exporters because we felt like sometimes the processors themselves don't even know about quality. So it's good to train them on the same. Then the other one is equipping them as well as the way we talked about harvesters equipping them with harvesting tools, and then also access to finance like he said, I think for us also that was an issue. We need finance that's tailor made to the processors or these people are the middle, but that's not there at the moment. I think the story he said is a story we repeated here as we had our discussions. Yeah, I think I think we have four strategies for implement. Okay, not more than four strategies for implementing. I think the first one was tailor made financing. I think I've mentioned that for each value chain actor. The second one was capacity building on business plans. I think he mentioned that, but for us also was how much. What's the plan for either aggregating what's the plan for processing so that then it allows you to access financing. The other one is the rent to own models like I mentioned the other one is training and equipping the youth at the community level to offer support services to farmers. I think we saw that as an opportunity for everyone that is involved to work with the youth at the community to then offer those as an employment opportunity. So the other one was of course incorporating technology and innovation, so we're looking at a number of technologies that we could use. I think this was ethylene inhibitors dramatic testing. So technologies that could be used really to just make it easier to to know what is happening either on the farm. So then you could also predict what it's going to happen, whether you're going to have fruit or not, those kinds of technologies. Then the other one was data on harvest, if you could have data on harvest trends in the different regions, I think that was probably for HCD, HCD so that then we can be able to know who is starting when, but then based on data, not just based on. So it comes up as based on the data also data on the different. Producing regions data on the farmers on from from all the other regions. Then I think their last one was certification of exporters and processors. I think you were looking at how we can have the exporters. We will talk about like Ali Baba, the way they have gold, you know, that kind of thing that then allows us to, or even people from outside to know who is a good quality who's who's appearing to certain standards and therefore whoever is a theory is able to also command a better price. And then that way sort of like regulates and creates allows there to be fair competition. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there any clarification? If not, I'll move to the marketing group. If you can take only five minutes, I'll appreciate. Thank you very much. So challenge number one was about inability to access quality fruits that makes export specifications. And of course, supply chain instability, the supply of fruit is actually in consistent making it difficult to not to meet the demand. And of course also going alongside that is about immature fruits, which is basically a housekeeping issue. The solution to this is adherence to good agricultural practices, and of course, attaching good prices to high quality fruits. Now the strategies to be implemented is organizing and offering certification and market idea. My goodness. No, really we're talking about organizing farmers into groups and after organizing farmers into groups, then we have the farmers get certified. For example, global global gap option two for produce organizations or global gap option one for the exporter. So that basically then addresses the issue of quality. Alongside that is a post service management of Cardo's right from the farm to the processing facilities, and that goes alongside the entire culture called culture management that then ensures that the temperatures at the farm level at the temperatures during transportation. And at the same time, these are the temperatures that are then a vocalo arrive with at the processing facility. Then challenge number two is of course theft of the fruit, which is actually a big, big, big problem. But we're saying that we need to ensure that buying of fruits is actually done strictly on the farm and strictly from the farmers to actually ensure that we are raised the menace of theft. Because with theft actually, it's actually a very big problem in the industry and it actually impacts very, very badly and portrays the image of the kind of avocado also very badly. Now solution in terms of strategy is low enforcement to promote controlled buying procedures. The solution that we're saying that later for Cardo's be bought and let people interact in the day. And of course, finally and most importantly is organizing farmers into effective producer organizations. Number three is lack of disability of the Kenyan avocado as it arrives into the international arena. So this of course is also to organize farmers into producer groups so that we can actually be able to say with certainty that avocado fruit X is actually coming from produce organization say in Meru. And in Meru it's actually coming from this particular region and also possibility of actually tracking it down to the level of the farmer that actually assault that avocado. So the strategy we are saying that we map and organize farming farmers into groups and then link the farmers with the marketing persons to ensure that what actually arrives into the park house is exactly what came from the farmers. And finally, last but not least is contract enforcement excuses for the type of contract enforcement. We have contracts years, but the implementation of the contracts actually a big problem. Number five is the fact that the prices that the Kenyan exporter gets is actually dictated to buy the bias. So that actually jeopardize the opportunities that are actually available within the international market space. So to mitigate against this, we are talking about, you know, timely market intelligence to the extent that we're actually able to say that this particular market, this is actually the price that is suffering. And if assuming we're talking about Peru, we're talking about Mexico, we're talking about Columbia. This is the price that their avocados is actually attracting at the international market. And of course, attach premium price to quality produce as an incentive for the farmers to be able to produce to the market high quality fruits. Strategy access to timely market information. And of course also marketing directly to the buyers we are actually suggesting that exporters then negotiate and sell directly to the buyers out there. And of course also to bring that element. Oh, sorry. I think the final one is about, you know, to be able to mitigate against, you know, the exporters being price takers, we are suggesting a solution in respect to participation in the international trade fairs. What I am emphasizing on this is that at the international trade fairs, the exporters are in a position to interact directly with the buyers one on one on a table, and then they negotiate prices outside of email communication and phone conversations. So today is changes in market regulations market, market and standard regulations, each and every single time we hear what was actually required of us the regulation that was required of us last year actually changes this year. So quite a number of changes are actually coming out of the European Union that we're talking about. And of course also the impact of Brexit, as equally also somehow impacted on some of these standards. So, the changes in market regulations every now and again, even if you are to speak about the global gap certification, you remember they keep on changing global gap improved to a certain level. The one that was actually supposed to be here to last year actually changes this particular year. So, where are you? Okay, sorry. So the solution is about adaptability. Businesses have to adapt to these market changes for them to actually be able to sustain themselves into this market. So strategy is also of course about access to market information, and of course, you know, to, to the changes in these regulations, and of course, the regulatory authorities here we are talking about KFIS, HCD, and of course also business management organizations, they need to collect and disseminate information as and when it is available. Business is taking notes. So, again, the other challenge is about delays in checks and clearance for exporters. Example is about, you know, regulators, KFIS, HCD, and KRA taking a little bit of longer time, you know, to clear the exporters to be able to have their shipments. So, you know, it's either the GIA or the port of Mombasa. But for this, the solution is that the BEMOS need to work very closely with the regulators so that they lobby and they actually appraise the regulators on the essence of speedy clearance of the goods, because we are talking about, you know, perishables. So strategies, organizing and offering certification to market standards, that should be the implementation strategy. And then the high cost of marketing. High cost of marketing, why? You know, you are talking about a market that is not available here.  So that is actually a major, major constraint. The thing is that if you could create a financial vehicle that support exporters to be able to participate in international trade fairs, then that then arrest the issue of the cost of, you know, marketing. And of course, in terms of strategy, create partnership between finance institutions and exporters for them to be able to access finances to mitigate the high cost of marketing. The cost is equally a major issue, either at cost level or at the operational level. But you're suggesting that we build the capacity of the harvesters in terms of proper harvesting techniques, so that then the food that gets out of the farms is that only which meets the market specifications. So if you implement this, you may stream the use into the avocado farming so that it is actually the youth who are empowered and equipped with the right skills to be able to offer harvesting operations at the farm level. With those few remarks, I certainly saw Anna. I just wanted to add something on the harvesting cost. It's not just on the part of the farmer, but also demands by the buyers. Some of the buyers from the smallholder farmers, they have weird demands like bring your crop to us, 100 kilometers away. Yeah. And they have to harvest and they have to use transport. Yeah, that is part of, and it is happening. So let's not lose that point. And we have some of the dominant companies in Kenya, the cacuses of the day and the others. They put such weird demands, even in Muranga, farmers have to transport and find transport. And they find they can't meet that kind of cost. And so they leave the fruit to the brokers. These are the realities of the ground which we have to face here. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Jen was actually part of the team. Peter. Really? You're part of the team, so I basically also just want to appreciate you people. I have a question, Tom. I'm not marketing issue. Why would I think you would have touched on payments for the exporters? Did you touch on payments? Payments? How they receive their payments from the people they export to? Because that's a very big challenge. You are absolutely right, because we were not able to exhaust virtually everything, but you have a point. Exporters have got a story to tell, whether big or small, because out there we have fraudsters, right? So there's a very big challenge. I think the last time I checked, HCD has a very big file of exporters complaining of nonpayments. The challenge then is that a number of exporters do go and lobby the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but they can only do so much. So quite a number of exporters haven't lost money, so I agree with you. That is actually something you also need to factor in here. Nonpayments by the importers, right? Could I also add another point there on harvesting costs? At the farmer's level, there is delayed payments. Once they take their produce to these big companies, then they have to wait to be paid. You see? So there's a lot of exploitation. So you find the farmers are not accessing the markets. And everybody is trying to make as much money as they can as exporters. But where is the farmer? Who is farming the fruit? Jenna's part of the team. It was a debate and somehow we could not agree, but Jenna's actually said that farmers, the payment delay for two weeks. And some of us were saying that two weeks is not bad enough, but at least we need to basically incorporate it. That is a point and that is a reality because the farmer has already been told to bring the harvest 30 kilometers away. Then you keep the payment for two or even three weeks. So these are some of the things that need policy push. I think the government need to step in, put a regulation. You have to pay within this time limit. This kind of exploitation has to come to an end. Thank you. Thank you very much, Jen. You, and I can assure the point is actually taken. So you speak through the mic, you press the speak button. We also had that point in our group. So I would like to clarify, is it really exploitation because what we discovered is because of the international reputation of Kenyan avocados buyers are not paying upfront as they used to. So before you'd get to pay your down payment of up to 50%. Now that is not happening. So the exporter has to wait until payment comes. So this trickles down all the way down to the farmer. So it's not actually exploitation. If we look at the entire value chain. Yes, I do understand farmers need to be paid. But maybe let's be realistic in the timelines we set. Yeah, that's not it. Yeah, in fact, it's a very interesting debate. I would have loved if there are issues of non payments. From where I sit two weeks is okay. From where I sit two weeks is okay, because there are logistics of vinyl processing payments avocados have arrived. They've got to be inspected and remember for those in the industry. You know only two well that not everything that the farmer deposits at the park is actually taken because exporter will actually sort and grade and pace will pay for only which that one that passes the test. So the time you finish that and then you key it in, and you've got maybe on that particular day about 50 of them, or 10 of them, the following day like that, you know, you can go to appreciate that this moves them to the accounting department for processes that might be able to take a while. But again, I know there are issues of non payments. There are issues of, you know, come across the issues of payment of the farmers by the exporters. But when it comes to commercial distance, you know, the contracts actually should then be able to address these issues and they cannot be sorted out. Amicably, then they can proceed and maybe look for an alternative solution. Sorry, Dr. Just to add on to. So basically, the reason why there's a contract between the exporter and the farmer is just so that it's a win win situation. I'm a bit surprised that the exporters who are not paying the farmers, but really, I think the contract binds both parties. And yes, I totally agree with the fact that the farmers used to be paid beforehand 100%. But now it's a situation whereby the price now is being dictated by the customer. So you wait and see, well, just like all businesses, it's a risk.  Thank you very much. And please one more point around harvesting cost is on poor road network, poor road network and this need to get to government. Yes, because it is just increases the cost of harvesting. So roads need to be improved even grading. To make them more durable so that it reduces the cost of harvesting. And actually, so we have the next session is actually on trade. So we want to look at trade barriers, both for domestic, regional and the global market. So I can see this discussion has already ushered us into that particular session. And I can see we have how many minutes, we only have 20 minutes. So I don't know. Very last one. So we only have three very briefly. Yes. I want to do a very small add to what Peter said. For the potential producers. Tom, at times we will call it desperate sale. Allow me to request as a producer. That you're also doing a binding contract that has some very clear cut spell out classes, which include and not remitted to payments. If you read between the lines and understand the cross of payments. You mutually agree how many days or how many months before you can talk about being exploited, and especially when we are talking about the international export market. Thank you. If I could say something about our presentation, I'd like to thank Tom for doing a good job. One of the key barriers to marketing our avocados is the quality of fruit. A section of the exporters are sending out so production. So how we handle the fruit once it's been harvested really plays a role in us securing a better price and a bigger market for our crop. For example, mid this year, we had a very good command of the Chinese market. We lost it to Peru. Just because our quality couldn't match Peru's quality. And a few years back, Peru was a nobody in the avocado market. Today they're going into our traditional markets and actually displacing Kenya. So the quality of fruit that we send out and it has to do with how we grow it. And how we handle it. And it's mainly to do with compliance with the current regulations and rules plus education. So such seminars and more education of from the farmer to the harvesters to anyone handling the fruit will help us with marketing. Thank you very much. Now, like I said, and of course those are very good points that you've brought out. So we actually looking at trade barriers you've mentioned some of them you've also given us some of the strategies. So what I'd request because of the interest of time, if you can think of some of the trade barriers for accessing the domestic market, the regional market regional market in this case we are looking at the East Africa region. And then the international market, what are some of the barriers and then what are some of the strategies if you can just write down in your notebook, some of these and then we can move around. So you just put your speaker on and then you can tell us some of those key trade barriers that you are facing at the domestic regional or international market. So just write down and then you can switch on your speaker once you have the point and how we can improve on those barriers. And then we have our kid, not take us Elizabeth and Cynthia, who will capture all that. I'm happy to start with the last one, the international one. Yes. May I. So, while we appreciate the new markets that are being opened up by the government. I think there is need to also involve the businesses when it comes to discussions about why trade with those particular countries and I'll give an example, India. In the last two years, we conducted a trial for avocados into India. I'm glad that my brother Ernest Mothom is here. And we realized only too soon that neither the government from this side or the Indian High Commission had any idea of how this bilateral issues can be captured. Long story short, fast forward, the government has opened up the Indian market, but Kenya has not started the exporting reason being that we are considered a developing country. And so we are subjected to a 30% duty. Once the shipment is inbound India. We're having a bit of a challenge with the commercial team on how to price the avocado from this end. But we were very excited because India is the largest population in the world. So businesses that have recently moved within the region. I eat Tanzania, which is considered a list developed country is exempted from the 30% duty. So last week we got wind that his excellency is going to India. And first on the list was that request to relook at how this bilateral agreements and arrangements can be discussed at government levels and probably at a WTO area whereby it can be a win-win situation. Businesses want to do business. The BMO's are supporting us. And ASOC is in the first front with Buona Anist Mutiomi. And we would encourage that when these discussions are the forefront, businesses are also on the table so that they can discuss a strategy and how to overcome these barriers. When that is done, then of course, the appetite will be there. Sorry, it was a mouthful, but just pick the pain points. Thank you. Thank you. And of course, when you speak through the mic, we are able to record it. So with that observation, any other could be domestic, regional, international barrier. I could add some points here. Domestic is the poor road network. And so that hinders many farmers from participating in access markets. And so they are left at the mercy of hotels. At domestic, there is poor governance and corruption. This is so pervasive in Kenya because I always wonder how do these immature fruits, how do they find their way at the international market? I don't understand because we have the regulators here. They are people to check, even at the airport. So this is corruption. It is so pervasive everywhere in Kenya, at all levels. The farmer, I mean, maybe even at the parkhouse, I don't know how, I don't know. There's something we have to face and see that it is a big problem in Kenya. There is poor governance. This has to be faced and discussed by all stakeholders how this need could be addressed. Then there is the unrivaled markets, fluctuating prices due to oversupply at the international level. Disorganize the local market infrastructure. Farmers are not organized into farmers groups to be able to access markets. There is a point we made in our groups that when the farmers are organized, I mean they are able to trace the people who are harvesting immature fruits. So this is something that could be done more to organize the farmers. Then there is inadequate institutional support in terms of training, credit for the farmers, even at regional level. Even at national level in Kenya, there is lack of support. There are so many meetings and a lot of talking. I know that somebody say that I don't know how many counties farmers are being organized, but how far is that? What progress is being made in this? So I don't know which structure can work with government closely to know what is happening so that the gaps can be identified and the support can be given. To that project. Thank you very much, Jen. I hope that's well captured. Maybe I can also add on the domestic market. I think there is also an issue of packaging and standardization. So that then you have, for example, currently even for the local varieties, they are packaged in sacks and of course that affects the quality and all. So I think there should be a way to help to improve that. Then of course there is the cold storage. It doesn't just like it's nonexistent in the local market. So I think this would help improve the ability of either the farmers or the aggregators to then be able to supply the local market. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, sorry, I stepped out briefly. I'm not so sure that I'll be repeating what probably could have been touched. The domestic market. The ability of the farmer to access this market is almost nil. Because we are talking about avocados holistically, without actually minding the variety specifically when it comes to the domestic market. A farmer say from Casey is not likely to succeed in entering, say, the Waquilema market. Why? Because of the way the market system is actually arranged. Some people call them cartels, but I have interacted with them and I realized they're actually just some sort of organization within some of these markets that needs to be adhered to. So that market entry is a problem. But in terms of strategies to improve this, if we have farmers organized into their own produce organizations, then at the core, the produce organization level then they negotiate with the gatekeepers of, say, a telemarketing Nero be here. It is easier for the PO to negotiate with the gatekeepers of this market. That is at the fresh produce level at the retail chain level. Here we are talking about the kind of food, the Chandalanas of this world. For the farmer to get into this market is not easy because one you got to be a registered business to you got to have a pin certificate etc. So we need to create awareness as a strategy to break in the so that the farmer produce organizations also have these documentations done for them to be able to get into these retail chains. Thank you. Something else comes into mind. Once we appreciate the stringent measures from the international markets, could we persuade the international market to do away with the use of methyl bromide for avocados.  We are finding it a little bit from a food safety angle that, you know, and ours is to persuade because remember we, we are on the other end. And, you know, if we can get the right persons to, you know, communicate this, it would be very much appreciated. Thank you. I cannot live without my brother for mentioning the issue of methyl bromide. This is a controlled chemical. Okay. And I think it's a major barrier. Remember, his excellency, the immediate past president himself went to China think for 2019. I'm not very sure about some some time there and then negotiate it and the agreement was that we get into the Chinese market through. What do you call it? No, no, no, no, no, the fast one into the Chinese market. Thank you so much Peter frozen avocados. I can tell you for sure the cost of investing in this then in infrastructure was equally a very significant barrier. That is one number two, you get into the Chinese market with the frozen avocados, you have invested heavily, and we're given a very poor price. So this is actually something that you need to think about. So then later on then the Chinese people come up with what to make a relation methyl bromide and they know very well that this is a controlled, you know, chemical. Really, can Europe accept a processing facility that has applied methyl bromide to supply their market. So this is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed very seriously. And I don't know what maybe honest would say about the element of methyl bromide. I think. The bromide is is a restricted product. I mean, you know the issues about ozone layer and all that. And the middle bram and is highly toxic. I mean, when we are talking about COP 28. According to the Montreal protocol. This is a product that is not allowed to be used. So, when such requirements come and I want to thank my friend, John to hear saying some of the players are not involved when this is done. So this is a request through Kebsa that when president goes to negotiate with the Chinese Prime Minister that we get the tariff zero tariff I don't know whether they've been able to achieve that we're waiting to hear from the delegation that left. So this method from my requirements and other SPS requirements that come along. Are of course trade barriers. So for me and from where we sit, we are very opposed to something that is not. I mean, something that is not good for the human beings is also not good for the environment because there is the risk of contamination with material bromide. And then some of these material bromide that is being used in this country might not be legal, not be legally registered, then the purity is also questionable. The application as well. We found that middle bromide has been subjected to some percentages that have an effect on the quality of the fruit on the appearance. There's also protocol about fumigation. Making people get fruits out of the way we prepare fruits, put them in the cold chain or subject them to a cold chain from where we are harvesting and then later on putting them under high temperatures of course it means some of these arguments or some of these protocols were signed without the private sector inside. So just like he's saying that the private sector needs to be involved when some of these protocols are being negotiated because you might be told you have a market but then practically assessing that market is another problem. Of course when they talk about barriers to trade, I am still hoping my colleagues. I mean, people here present will still discuss more about market assets. So trade barrier probably would want to sell our fruits to Japan. And then we can do that because the government has to negotiate a protocol with them. But they have to have a trade agreement. Sometimes these are political decisions that we will give and take. So those are of course trade barriers that we are discussing now. But I want to thank my colleagues. We're trying to see what really we can do with this middle bromide because so far the markets that have demanded for middle bromide treatment is becoming very difficult for us. It's becoming a trade barrier. Thank you. Thank you very much for bringing that up. Those are some of the aspects of sustainability that we're actually trying to address any other point. Please feel free to switch on your mic. All points are valid. Thank you. Maybe because we need to get aware about this chemical, middle bromide. So what is the benefit from the other user that you need to visit? I think why? Because again, why the chemical? It is toxic. Yes, we know that. But why should we go to use it? So I think again, the biggest problem we have here, it is about capitalism. So it is about what you are making at your head. So you find that most of the user, nobody cares about the user sometimes. Maybe to make it symbolic, the other day the vegetable oil was not good for human consumption overnight. It is very good. You can use it. So actually there's a lot that we need to know about some of these chemicals. Not just that, other chemicals that are also used along the production process that also need to be discussed about. Because one of the very factors that is driving the market of the avocado, the people have known the benefits of eating an avocado. Then we cannot have it like the one again that is cutting the ghost toxins to our body. So it is a discussion that should go on. Thank you. Thank you very much. I like the fact that we are talking about the East African region. And if you talk about the East African region, Rwanda, Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, specifically because some of these are the countries that are doing avocados. You realize that our systems are actually different, right? Our systems are different to the extent that you can actually be able to say probably safely that it is possible for the East African region to supply avocados 90% of the year, or if not 100% of the year. But then if you look at the port of Dar es Salaam, it is not as sophisticated as Mombasa in terms of places where the containers are taken to cooling purposes before they actually loaded onto the vessels going overseas. Now, a number of Kenyan exporters have actually tried to do business in Tanzania. But of course the normal challenges they actually face at the port level because the port is not as sophisticated as ours. And that has actually made some of them to lift avocados from Tanzania to Kenya, but of course with challenges because they bring them into Kenya and export them as Kenyan produce. So that's actually a challenge because of the issues of produce origin. So therefore, at the regional level, if it would be possible for say the Kenyan exporter or the Tanzania exporter to work directly with the Kenyan exporter or the Kenyan producers, they have a contract such that if say an exporter X in Kenya has got a farm group in Jombe area in Tanzania, they can then be able to ship avocados from Tanzania, process it in Kenya. But of course, let's declare it that it is actually Tanzania and avocados processed and exported from Kenya. But at the moment that is actually not very clear. So you can trace it. So I'd like to comment on some of the trade barriers that we face domestically. One of them I'd say says, so we find that if you harvesting avocados from a county like Meru, it will have to pass through several counties to get to maybe Tika or Mombasa Road where they are being processed for export. So you find that each and every county that you're passing will charge you some says, some says which in turn increases the cost of doing business. So these will also translate to the price that you are quoting outside there. So I believe it's one of the trade barriers and another thing is the long processes involved when you're applying for an export license. You need to engage with so many institutions for you to be able to export which becomes a challenge for new entrants into the industry. Another one is climate instability. So sometimes we are faced by drought. Right now we are faced by floods. So you're not able to tell how much you are to expect in terms of production. Going on to the international trade barriers. I think international buyers have some high level standards, which let's assume you're a new exporter, you need to part with a lot of money to get these standards. When do this person has not done business or has not done any business to be able to raise this amount of money and you're required to part with like a million shillings just on certifications. So I believe this barrier to trade to some of the new and maybe small businesses that want to enter into the avocado trade. So another barrier I'd say is we have talked about the China and the Indian market. So you find that some of the requirements for you to be able to export to those markets are actually not even doable. So my friends talked about fumigation. There's also the India market, which gives you another option to do cold treatment of which you put avocados after processing for zero degrees for 10 days. Another option is for 1.1 degrees for 12 days. You find that if you do that to these avocados, you actually interfering with the quality of the avocado. So generally when you send it out there, it's actually not of the best quality. Thank you. On the sales fees because I think again at the end of the day, so we'd like to really have make sure that we write something that really that we can easily address. So for the sales fees because I understand this is how counties are also generating revenue. What will be the solution? Like what can we do? Can I go? Yeah. Yeah, I think we had this discussion before and thank you so much for that. Basically, you know, it's all about trying to build relationships and working together with the government with the central government. And remember as businesses, we are not saying that we are not going to pay the says no. What we are pleading with the administration is that this should be pegged from the county of origin, so that it's a win-win situation. And the only thing that this can be made to happen is if the Council of Governors, the chair is involved in these discussions, so that right from the pyramid, it is then cascaded down to the counties so that one county is not, you know, giving out their own rules, but it should be from the point of county. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. To add something little for the international level, there is an increased demand for certain, you know, requirements for the market, the international market. And this is pushed down to the farmer, you know, to meet certain standards and quality of the avocado. So this means, you know, hiring of labor increase, labor costs. I mean, it gets very expensive for the farmer. And of course, then they are not able to. It's a trade body. Because when the costs are high, of course, it's good for employment because you find you hire more people to ensure certain quality, but then at what cost? And farmers may just give up and say, oh, I'll just farm traditionally for the local markets and give up the international market where there are better prices. I can just comment on the SES. I don't know if it has changed, but if you do not pay the complete SES from the county of origin, then what you're paying along the way is basically a fine. So once you pay SES where you got the crop from that receipt, you go with it across you don't pay again. That's why I left it because even in Tanzania, if you don't pay in one core, you'll pay all over the place and you might even get arrested at the border. So we just check that. I'm not sure if it has changed, but just kindly check that on on a trade barrier that we have in the international market dispute resolution with the buyers, especially for the middle east is very weak. Europe, there is recourse if there's a dispute between the seller and the buyer, but the middle east is basically wild west. If there's any dispute, the law that basically just jails the person you're selling to. If they can't pay you, they are put in jail. So even when you take it to the authorities for recourse, that person is thrown into jail until they pay you. So you might just end up with someone all in you for several containers sitting in jail. It doesn't help you. That Europe where there's even insurance schemes against buyers. So that is a trade by barrier. I don't know how it can be addressed because the middle east is a big market. We are forced to even travel with our consignments. Once you verify the fruit is good, they pay you as you give them the container. Any other barrier or strategy to improve this? The freight cost. Compared, but I want my colleagues to probably input, but I know the freight cost from this part of the world compared to other destinations a bit on the higher side. So that makes our produce competitive when it gets to the destination market. It's a barrier, but I don't know how we can really, yeah, that will be challenging. I know, maybe in terms of prices, but of course that will shoot the prices of our products. And it becomes a challenge as well. How can we solve that? Well, I think I'm just guessing. I don't have an answer, but I think the reason why see freight has been discussed and has been trialled is because right now the airlines decide on what to do and how to do and it was proven, especially during COVID. And the prices are not going to come down. In fact, from an operational point of view, 60% is taken off from freight. So our hope as industry is that if we get the buying in of as many businesses to go the see freight direction. We are hoping that the airlines will come running back and saying, hey guys, can we see it and have a discussion. Thank you. Unfortunately, if you compare other ports and Mombasa for the see freight, we are still paying maybe a thousand to $2,000 more than the other ports, shipping from Peru to Europe and from Kenya to Europe. Kenya is still more expensive. So there is a serious concern on shipping as a cost. At the see freight level. So really I don't know whether, because this has also got to do with geopolitics, you never know somebody dominates a market and then determines. And, you know, these people must be coming from part of the world that they would prefer to give better rates, so that the prices from that other part of the world, you know, come competitive, so you know, but they are fading. I think. I don't know from. I mean, Jomo Kenyatta say to Amsterdam is depending on the airlines about three US. We are three years and a half per kilo. Right. And other destination is 1.8 to, you know, so really, it is, it is, it is a body that need also to be looked at very critically but it is beyond our control cannot actually say that we're going to have a solution to this. Any other. I hope we have exhausted all the points that you had written down. Now that you're saying it's on record and it needs to go on record. I think we were having a chat with you earlier about the notes that you made and something came into mind that now that we are talking about rail track from, you know, most of the hubs within Kenya would be interesting to see how but then again, it would be Mr. Muthiomis dockets to champion it to see how the rail can start collecting avocados rail them to Mombasa and then from Mombasa on to the vessel we had a discussion with government recently and Kenya railways are going to put in plug in points for reefers so that we can be able to maintain a very good cold chain and so we are hoping that well, the government is very good at promising it had said by and they are very good at even giving a number they had said by the 17th of December those plug in points would be in the wagons Mr. Muthiomis my witness and that they would be good to go as far as the flowers are concerned perhaps is it something that we could think about with the avos over to you Ernest, thank you Thank you so much Peter I think well some of these things call for advocacy and a lot of it and you will agree with me that we've been trying to push the government to do some of these things and for instance there was the European deal that had just been frustrating us for the last few years because Europe and insisted on removing some of the products that we use to do some of our crops here on the MRL list, I mean on the list of products that we can be allowed to use I know although the discussion was dropped by the European Parliament it did not sit well with some countries and you know UK is not part of the European Union now anymore that's it and done well our mandate is of course advocacy so we wish to continue putting the government into the tools so that it really delivers on what it is promising it is a slow process but I think luckily there is a project now which is called BIP funded by the European Union trying to do some infrastructure I think this is going to come out very clearly next year and some of the people in this room I mean everyone will be involved will be engaged through ASOC to see that we are part of it because the objective of that project is of course to ensure that there is more trade between Africa and Europe and sometimes they also need to keep their employees in those ports if you go to the port of Rotterdam I mean I'm giving great jobs to a lot of people so if there is no fruit or hodkaja that is coming from Europe from Africa to Europe they also lose their jobs and they lose their businesses and of course it affects their economy so it's a win-win for everyone but what I can say is Africa has an opportunity even when we talk about the Kenyan avocado we are still doing 2% on our markets the per capita consumption on some of those markets for some of our products is below some market standards avocado is 1.2 kilos in Europe in the Americas is about 3.8 so you still feel there is a lot of ground for us to cover but then of course we need to put our house in order and try to do some marketing because this is about marketing it's also creating positive vibe about whatever we are selling so I think going forward into next year we are going to see what we are going to do because this market needs to be grown and we need to tell our story I believe we ship more than 5,000 containers every year or about that number and not everything of course is bad because our people keep buying but there is a lot of improvement and I am happy that everyone is pointing at where we really need to improve initially people just do their own things but there is a lot of positive vibe including from some of our government agencies that used to look the other side and receive kickbacks and receive inducements to aid some of these people so I think I want to encourage everybody Peter and Dr. Harry and everybody else in this room that this is our industry and we must be very vigilant because we have a lot of families that depend on this value chain and if we don't work I mean we have advantages that used to create jobs and do all these things but because there was no one who has been vigilant about that we've lost a lot I mean we've lost production to countries like Morocco on some of our values that we used to create jobs so I don't want to put conclusion remarks but I want to say I like and I'm admiring the discussions that are really going on and I want to do another thinking that ASOC is well-tested I mean you're putting us where we belong we need to make noise and we need to make this work Thank you very much See you we appreciate those remarks and I think it would be a good point to end this discussion so I want to take this opportunity to thank you for this particular session I can assure you all the points we have been noted down we are going to work together on this together with this TECO and the EU to ensure that we have an easy access to the market we may not solve everything but we can try so I want to take this opportunity to welcome Anderson to proceed from here I have a question my assumption is that the cabinet secretary seated here are going to correct team A, team B and C would it be possible to possibly share that on software? We are actually going to collect all the information and we are going to share the report with you and of course through the emails and also through the avocado society of Kenya so that you can have all this in soft copy thanks so Anderson, over to you so once more I want to extend our gratitude first of all for accepting our invitation to be here today and also for the very engaging discussion that we have had that is really what we are looking at and we have had a lot of information there were even some information that we as experts were not aware of so that is why we always say co-creation is quite key because getting those very key details from the stakeholders who are actually involved on the ground is quite critical to bring the expert knowledge and the local knowledge together to come up with very concrete and practical recommendations on the way forward so basically moving forward we still have two critical companies of the project that we are engaging on after the report so this is the first the second one we are also like doing some interviews with exporters with importers in Europe on the same to get their perspective as well the challenges they are facing and also like probably be criticizing you guys as well so we just want to get the information from both sides so that when you come up with this recombination it actually reflects the whole value chain not just one the actors in Africa but also those importers in Europe it is really an important project and as you must have heard from the representative from the European Climate Foundation who are the ones funding this project they are quite interested in seeing how we could work together with all the stakeholders to come up with better solutions like win-win both for Europe and for Africa the second and last phase the third and last phase will be an original workshop now with all the policy makers both in the EAC and in Europe so all the policy makers in Europe that are based in EAC with regards to trade and anything regarding trade we will have having the workshop in the Kigali sometime in January next year where we will have where we will be feeding in all this information coming from the report from this discussion from the interviews with the importers so that those who are making this policy should be aware of the challenges that are really on the ground because most often than not these policies are developed is mostly by consultants who just come out from somewhere get some few interviews come up with recommendations based on their own personal experience or based on their knowledge but now we want to make it to be a co-productive process where we involve all the different stakeholders in coming up with solutions that we hope could be adopted by the members of EAC and EU EAC and EU and how we could finally take all the recommendations and put them into the policy documents that guide trade between Africa especially EAC and EU I know you are aware of the recent trade argument between Kenya and EU the Kenya trade argument it was supposed to be between East Africa but for some reason I'm not quite sure if what I heard was that in some of the countries in East Africa were not that really proactive to really push forward the argument so that's why Kenya went ahead with the argument with EU so that the other partners can follow suit so we are looking forward to actually shaping the policy between the European Union and East Africa in terms of trade and that's why your input will be really relevant don't take this for granted as if we are just here just with talk and the right report we are looking at it at a much more higher level because that's the objective of the donor they are called the European Climate Foundation so it's been funded by the European Union so I want to once more to thank you again for your participation I believe it has been a very productive engagement and with that in mind we I believe we've come to the close of the end of the workshop and want to wish you all a very great evening and a safe trip back home in terms of logistics my colleague Luta will be handling that with the other colleagues who are seated at the right hand corner and I believe Luta if there's any announcement we made in that regard then we can do that now so once more thank you for coming and wish you all the best thank you