to be able to be you know to some extent be able to defend themselves i just want to voice a pet peeve as well which is that i fucking despise the giant war hammers like real war hammers real war hammers are like these they're like the size of normal hammers because that's the kind of thing that you could wield right well it's the size of a little hammer that you put nails into the wall or like yeah that's literally how big they are that's a real damage to i'll get you i'll get you picture uh i thought that there was someone like a wedge hammer right like a sludge hammer sized like you know like you have those in combat i think those are only made out of wood okay all right because the reason you don't design hammers what a war hammer is just the fucking service area is so widely spread that it's hard for it to cause that much damage unless you're crushing them against something right because essentially you know a blade isn't going to do much against plate armor right so oh okay i see it's going to do it you just want something it's going to do a hard impact against the plate is the point of a war hammer i'm pretty sure i did watch shads video on this i must just be completely misremembering like i thought that uh that the war hammers were like maces or you know like this is a this is a mace and a war hammer egg so i was pulling up the picture okay right i see yeah i think is it here's the thing right i used to think those little war hammers look really lame and that i don't understand why i hit way in fiction you know they make them much bigger because you know i don't look cool but then i think about like man being hit with one of those would fucking hurt oh yeah like yeah absolutely i can't imagine someone being able to hit me with one something with some like massive unwieldy fucking thing like jace has so like i would just move out of the way is this they're getting ready to swing so it was like now aesthetically i i way prefer the small hammers and i would like to see them represented in media because i think it's the one form of historical weapon that we never actually see adapted faithfully like history is the war hammer we see jace use that little war hammer i think it would look cool i think i think that size would look cool i i he could well he could use it in tandem with a shield which i imagine jace would really want because he's never fought before so and he's not an idiot so it's like i should have something to protect myself because i know i'm not a fighter so i should make something that's defensive like for free imagine him like like hitting someone like real hard with that you know they're fucking done like that something of that size man because no because you know the small the small like point of impact focused on you know that little area is gonna is gonna focus the energy way harder onto once all right which is sure but i mean if we're in like an animated world where we have like we can do really crazy cool shit with this hammer you know what i mean and he does have a fantasy shield or i guess a sci-fi shield and do you remember the the blue shit the hammer does as well it is not a real hammer it is like it appears to be discharging some kind of shock that is here beneath the armor and that's true yeah it it gets a huge huge pass because it is a magic hammer i would say it's you know an aesthetic preference that i have for historically accurate war hammers like it is an aesthetic preference of mine i'll just have to get a pass because it's on those impact right yeah i'm not saying this i'm not saying this is a hole because it is a magic hammer right like yeah on the impact frames of the hits within like that very first one you can see it shatters the entire the man's entire fucking skeleton like it's just it's just obliterates it not essentially um as the scene progresses it's just like i love the combat from vi it's really satisfying to watch it looks like we're taking ages to get right just all these hits that come in and uh yeah she has to dodge each one and some of them are really close calls and then just slip in the counters where she can um using the gauntlets as shields a lot of the time i think i just i find her combat so much more satisfying than jayce's and i think it's literally just because i fully believe that vi is more than ready for this um yeah and the gauntlets give her the variable she needs to be able to take on these guys um but yeah just look at this sequence yeah this one's really cool i'm glorious oh yeah this one yeah jay doesn't want to see it jay that that's fine jay it's jay's pin yeah and yeah just the it's like a wall cover x-rays you see the skeleton oh no yeah boom um and yeah then you get a proper a guma moment a game kuma jayce activates his uh ranged weapon let's i guess you could call it a gun uh primary attack and i think rags this was the time where you were like is this from the game yeah this is what he does in the game yes it is yeah uh yeah it's great and they fucking undercut it those bastards you're enjoying why jayce uses big old kum weapon and he's even like yeah he's super into it and then suddenly as he's firing and firing he ends up shooting a kid blows the whole clean through it's the kids that press the button by the way i figured it was um trying to think of you stupid kid from what i remember because i know people are critical of this i think they said um uh what an idiot kid for being there what what what i mean like yeah fuck that kid yeah there's i don't have much to say about that probably when the kids uh it's it's he's it probably wasn't the kid's full decision to be there he's probably sit there like a picture running around trying to avoid yeah like there's a lot of reason he could end up there what which i was evil this is where i'm saying i'm trying to remember criticism of this i'm doing what i can i know another one but we won't get to it until the beginning of the next episode but um i guess we'll just we'll just carry on unless anyone else has got anything uh obviously that puts a big dampener on this whole scene which for a moment they was kind of like jace was getting not only you know getting rid of this shimmer stopping these horrible monsters but vengeance and justice for all those enforcers that were killed but killing a kid that's that's that doesn't kind of a downer yeah and then uh one thing go ahead either of you go ahead jay well i always appreciate it about the scene right from the beginning is that it's presented um with the perspective of the people who are being raided in mind just as much of the perspective of the enforcers it's not it's it's you get the sense of oh these guys are coming in here to kill those other guys right and all the um all the fucking or all the the impact that comes with that from the perspective of both people there it's not just yeah fuck them up let's go until you sort of get lost in the action with jace and uh vye and then again as soon as you get lost in the action you get a rude reminder hey maybe let's not get lost in the action because killing people doesn't actually that cool yeah yeah very again do you carry it away dipshit comes across again as mature storytelling you don't want to just ignore the parts that are not working for you with your vibe like go away other parts um yeah vye doesn't take this that badly jace is having loads of trouble and i think the point is just that this is kind of normal for vye like well yeah that's it that's another victim of all of this bullshit and i think she said well that conversation i think happens i can't remember if it's the end of this episode or the beginning of the next one but um it's the end of this episode now it's uh it's pretty much it well yeah because the other thing is that after seeing that he's killed the kid and that that is a direct result of all the stuff that he's decided to do i think looks up and sees loads of kids they've all surrendered and they're all but like there's so many and that this is gonna keep happening if he continues that's just the price um which is a lot to bear yeah jace is quite a a lot of character to him jace was just a scientist yeah yeah i just wanted to do his little sign stuff so like yeah and i was like no no you're the head of everything do stuff oh okay and then kaila just naked blue a hole in kid whoo yes go finally god quality content please like took us this fucking long yeah she's probably having a big old think about all of the everything they do it very artistically the whole thing um then we get and i remember when i first saw it i was like that was so fucking cool and well done uh just the she uh comes out of the shower and she sees that the the monkey image from jinx has been drawn into the mirror and uh as she's realizing that we have a shot with a i guess the the mist in the background is clearing up and there she is yeah yep how awesome does that look it looks amazing like you can barely see her as it is in your she's only just now becoming visible like the viewer can only see her just as katlyn does so it's like oh shit i don't know where and it's a bit worrying because the last time we saw her was almost dying going fucking nuts getting resurrected and only thinking about how much katlyn has destroyed her chances of yep being back with five she's got a big old hate boner for katlyn now and that it's not the only boner that was in this scene it's episode eight yay it's from the last fucking episode can you believe it god damn what are you doing here oh my goodness all right today we're doing wow incredible and i don't see why i wouldn't just continue straight away so let's do it so yeah i think we open with uh the jace and the vi having a little chat about this and vi posts a little bit of cringe she says you didn't have a choice and he knew what he was signing up for and i i think even jace is like oh right uh damn yeah uh bitty it's both statements it's like of course the whole point of him feeling like this is that he had the choice and he made the choice this is the result of the choice and then he signed up for it it's result yeah the fucking child they don't know what they're doing he's kind up to get shot by that well yeah if it was an adult that'd be one thing but but i like it because yeah vi's only goal here is to get him back on track we need to keep you know beating the fuck out of silco um he has like a great line where he says um the next parents to get a message like i i don't even i don't even know where to send it like because that's something you would have dealt with topside potentially what does he even do when when kids are killed in and stuff here like what does he even and he just says do we leave him here and uh she says he doesn't even know what to do what happens next uh she says you've always been a part of this you just never looked it in the eye and it's like yeah her frustration comes from the fact that this is common it's once again a lot of the counselors have no idea that any of this even happens yeah you are always part of this like you're part of the system and this is a systemic problem yeah yeah you can choose not to acknowledge it if you want but i think it's part of why she's so frustrated like this is your reaction it's like you don't even know and of course when they first talked he had no idea what happens in the prison either and how fucking annoying is that yep especially when he's part of the group that's making all the important decisions every important decision yeah pretty much um but yeah she makes it clear she ain't stopping here and then there's just a great like take those off like and then just for a second you're like oh shit because uh yeah he doesn't want it he wants to wind this down but she isn't stopping um this is the thing when i was watching this scene i was like as much as i wouldn't be against having an action seat of viva's jayson everything like just for the cool factor i don't think it matches jace right now to fight her no way no way very pleased that all of the you know energy just deflated out of him he just walks off she's a full on brawler she's full on ready to fight every last person there is but he has just experienced how much he does not want to do violence not to mention i'm pretty sure he's aware that he wouldn't really stand a chance against vye anyway no i don't know a lot of enforcers man you know there's a chance faster than bullets and i imagine he knows his hammer better than she knows those gauntlets uh in terms of their powers she can roll better than him but you know if he activates the shield and it catches her off guard then one good hit to her i imagine the hammer would maybe be able to smash those gauntlets i think the hammer kills her on impact if it's like a proper yeah even if it hits her gauntlets it doesn't matter i don't think he stops the fight because he thinks he'll lose i think he just doesn't want to kill her uh yeah yeah yeah no there's a criticism putting that on the list of why he wouldn't do that there's a criticism people highlight here of is he seriously just leaving two gemstones to her um the fact is this is what this scene's about he's gonna have to kill her if he wants them back yeah and it doesn't want to so he's not ready to do that there's a rough realization he's dealt with the fact that he's killed someone a kid rather uh there's just a lot going on in his head he knows that he's giving those up that's the big reason why he wants you to drop them they are very powerful but the thing is he's just not willing to kill her i'm not sure people would be citing as a problem that's the decision he's made i thought that so what i would say is uh zorn having the gemstone is a big reason why all this drama is happening in the first place and he's giving up two right there and it's just like the only response to that that works that is is just the fact that he's not willing to kill her there's nothing else he can do yeah if it was silcoe there with the gauntlets on that would be different but and he probably can recognize that yeah but she's not like evil so that helps yeah yeah um we also see in the in the in the white shot shimmer is apparently made with some weird goopy stuff that's hanging from the ceiling looks kind of gross oh i don't know if you've you've seen that he said he said goopy all right there's a difference between yeah no there's like a almost like a hard thingy i i do yeah it's like pumping it's like purple yeah it's like gross and that's i guess that's where they produce the shimmer with which is gross it's like a little sack of something i don't know what that is exactly but it is it is pumping whatever it is um yeah via smashes it much to the chagrin of silcoe who is about to discover this and honestly if you only watch this show from silcoe scenes he is just constantly having to deal with new problems he's just like look kid to me right now this is happening too like okay breaking up me i was like when will this villain get a break exactly what a good guy i wish he would get his break i'm sure he's breaking the next episode yes um he says it's been a while since topside got this bold and um they're like yeah we need like marcus was fucking useful and then he's like we can always buy another just a kind of proactive thinking though in the background the lady from the the evil council is like nah do something about the fact that my son died and that's where the second criticism i've seen comes in with oh how convenient or inconvenient i don't even know that the kid happened to be her kid um i don't know what difference i don't know i don't know i don't know why i don't know why so they've taken a huge loss consequential regardless yeah like i don't really see that i mean one could argue that that happening fuels her to make a decision in the coming scene um but i don't know that it's unfair that they would be critical of silco regardless of it being her son that died yeah just so close could we make the argument we make the argument that um because a lot of named characters just bump into each other like you know echo and heimerdinger right there's no reason that they would have met each other specifically rather than anyone else that the world is made to feel quite small because of all these interpersonal links that are ultimately just coincidences those that's the problem with trying to categorize them i've brought this up before but just they seem to me to be events rather than conveniences or inconveniences there's no nobody really strictly benefits or doesn't benefit from these things happening they are things that happen i don't you know yeah but i mean for me echo echo meeting heimerdinger was like man it just makes the world feel smaller well um they're both traveling and they're both aiming to be on the main bridge and that's what they both were when they met like it's there's there's some pieces there that connect them i suppose that's true you're right uh because echo says he's waiting there because he can't figure out how to get back without being like very vulnerable while doing it and then if he's you know i just assume he's waiting maybe on the leg or contacts something like that but i mean we could have made more reason for them to have bumped into each other i don't disagree with that people are pointing out something that i was thinking about why would the mob boss's kid be working in the factory i was about to point that out yeah so that's actually where i think kid is there's a more interesting conversation to be had as compared to whether or not he was killed um i don't know i don't know he doesn't depends what he was doing there yeah maybe he's like an oversteer of some sorts well no i mean there's other kids i wouldn't just that he was there to just keep an eye on stuff just just just have a look gain experience maybe she literally wants him to gain work experience or something right maybe i'm trying to tough love him well literally so literally he could be there under her orders talk to him learn the business just get around have a look around whatever fine just hang out with that's what we're doing we're shimmer people we're doing shimmer and you know what if you see people slacken off fucking tell him to not slack off i could have been press the button he doesn't have to just be like some kind of mining personnel or some like you're imagining the worst job ever it didn't have to be the worst job ever could it just as someone just said maybe he's just the alarm boy it's like maybe oh my god they're coming maybe maybe he was doing some like mining and this parent like thinks that yeah that'll teach him like to be a man or whatever right yeah i don't see why that isn't an impossibility it's like it's purely reasonable that could happen uh and so and besides we we get a fucking banger line from silco once again as a result of all this uh she's complaining she's like you're gonna fucking do anything about them killing my son you little masters and silco says uh we all mourn the loss of your son at least we have the solace of him dying for the cause rather than some petty personal dispute as so often occurs is this fantastic line because it's not like you could if you fucking dumb ass you can interpret that as him being like nice it's like isn't it great that you're so died for a reason but it's like it's a threat he's basically just said shut the fuck up you if you try and like do anything like if you do anything over this as a result of your like petty insecurities about the fact that this is all my fault it's like you're gonna be the one that fucking dies and the oh it's just we all mourn the loss of your son the way he delivers it like i don't actually give a fuck like so why even bring it up also very important someone just said in chat i am a trungos so i thought that was important to point out is it trungos watching efapa trungos that's heaven right there i know right that's on sandpicks in discord sandpicks in discord efap chat sandpicks in discord no i mean oh god uh i'm i'm going to go to discord efap chat efap chat right now you can do that bye better not be lying to me goodbye get the chick pig rumbo the chick pig rumbo uh how long the efap chat is currently full of hi jay hi so the the scene closes with him basically being like savika help with the body and then walks off and all of them there are just like hmm that that silco hmm what a gloom but we'll see about that we're getting uh victor's having a day um he's he's he's having a day he's he's holding the fucking glasses of sky and a damn face flashes at it uh oh the intellect i don't even know what that is uh where are you creepy flash oh yeah that just like that's helpful for him uh oh sure i didn't even notice that oh boy really really doing bad and this i think would be something we'll end up citing as the seasons go on of really the first time that victor's endeavor has cost him significantly would you say that this magic this hex crystal would you say that it objectifies women and yes it turned into like a mist in a way but i still think that's fair yeah um and he starts reading all of her notes and there's several notes in there about victor specifically and it's very sad because he fucking killed her kind of you know if there's anything else anybody wants to say i can move on to the next scene it's not and it's tragic it's uh it was it was rough to see it is a tragedy he does eventually pick up his stool and go to just like i hesitate to say destroy the hex core because i don't know if that would destroy it but he goes to hit it uh but then he stops and then the hex core like zaps him and he goes unconscious i don't know if we're supposed to gather from that that the hex core will not allow him to destroy it anymore because they they're connected yeah i think the uh i think the hex core is kind of created a bit of sentience at this point because like yeah he walks away but then the hex core is all like yeah bitch it's what i thought just zaps him yeah this is one of them threads that uh we don't have enough answers of by the end of the season so what we can say really is we will find out whatever that's supposed to mean ultimately um moving on now he has to like real context for the things heimating i was talking about so i just mentioned oh yeah that's and it's i'm imagining only the beginning uh yeah so mel's pissed at his mom because she's pretty sure that she convinced jace to do the flooming and uh then his mom gives her a bit more info the man who killed your brother does not believe the score is settled and she says uh uh mel says i only wanted to protect the city from people like you i can't believe you'd use this city to cover your own ass she says arse not even ass is great she's more british um and then her mom advises her let the war unfold we need that weapon then you can come home so uh we've already got one of our several in this nice city nice we got several big choices for certain characters to make this episode as is tradition for climaxes and stories mel has got welcoming back to her home on the table now if she can get the weapons created um then we go back to victor in such a sad sad scene he's got he's got her ashes and he just says uh i'm sorry i don't know where you would have preferred i'm sorry and just drops him in yep love that line yeah just trying to pay a little bit respect as best as he can i guess a little pause like trying to think what the fuck else am i supposed to say yeah not a situation he wanted to find himself in uh but yeah we get a parallel he looks over the edge much like a certain jay sted and he comes very close step like a certain jay sted am i interrupting yeah i don't think back to back um it's like poetry right and this is where we get this is honestly like a really hopeful scene uh jay says like the weapons are too much i'm going to destroy the hammer and then he's like no no destroy the hex core like we need to stop this has gone way too far he says well in the pursuit of the line did you want to say no no go ahead he's victor says in the pursuit of great we failed to do good we have to make it right mm-hmm that's pretty uh emblematic of the entire science like subplot of this whole show that's great um and yeah this is the thing it's not just he's not just angry at jay's anymore for things jay's has done he is now just as salty with sky's been fucking executed which uh we don't see the repercussions of in terms of other people recognizing it and i think we just have to assume that it hasn't become public knowledge just yet because she would have just disappeared quote unquote i don't know i imagine that comes yeah yeah imagine it comes up next season but yes uh what are you saying das oh well i was just saying that like the uh the line in which you know you need to destroy the hex core was basically done like subtle in a more subtle means because victor says you've got to destroy it and jace looks over at the hammer and he thinks that victor is referring to the hammer and then victor corrects him and says no no no the hex core you have to destroy that thing because i can't and i just i just like how he's just assuming that he means destroy the hammer and they're both he agrees but i think both of them are back on the same wavelength after having been divided for a while yeah they're both gone on just a little gesture kind of just kind of shows it you know both gone on separate journeys and they're back to where they kind of were after both of them had some big dramas that neither are aware of really yeah um they both flew close to the sun and both got burned in like different ways so um i love this scene too it's a silco one uh his forget so he's dealing with a lot we've been over this he's always dealing with a lot he sees like one of my favorite scenes i just this one's like oh man i was i was my eyes were glued to the screen for this savika pulls up a chair for fin she even brushes it off for him and he just brazenly comes in without an appointment obviously a silco doesn't like react with shock just curiosity like what is that world is what now yeah like really okay and he has an eye on savika too um and i think he asks a question to weird looking lady brisa's yo with him are you uh and i think the way i watched the scene he's looking at her but i always wondered if that question's meant for savika not her yeah i think that's what i got that he's that he's asking savika more than anyone because of course those two are betraying him he doesn't give a fuck about those two savika betraying him's important though um and he says what bore us through those old times was loyalty and i now share seats with parasites like oh seven is andre ryan moment oh yeah so yeah does that i think fin is like um this is the day you die and savika raises up a blade pretty cool visuals for that as well try and fetch them but uh swipes flash and it's not quite clear who's dead but like yeah narrative wise i was like i don't think they would kill silco here um but you know it's not like it's impossible for this show to do something like that and uh the great detail is just that he's panting he does not know if he was going to live through that swipe or not yeah he was talking a really big game about loyalty but at the end of the day couldn't be sure i mean savika betrayed vanda so yeah he's she's a pretty uh two-faced bitch you know even if like high confidence in savika that's still a blade swiping really close to you oh yeah and yet look at how the blade just sleeps slips out here as well just looks awesome i like how he doesn't actually want to die that's you know that's neat how the idea of dying well he well he puts on he like he puts on a big face right puts on a big face that doesn't feel like the correct idea he puts on a big blade i'm scared it's time to put on my just second let me put on my big face for this it's an important occasion but um you know he doesn't act he um he's he actually does still get affected by the prospect of dying because that's something that he doesn't want i like that that seems you know it seems like a character dude it's got shit to live for this fucking image it's so great like as he's talking she's raising the blades like but yeah even from that shot it's like oh unclear but i guess she could have i'm pretty yeah and like and i like as well that they reveal that silco is alive by having his cup slice falling down showing that he's okay and panting yeah it's fucking great because he was not sure that savika wouldn't tell him and the the most interesting part as far as i'm considered i don't think she was sure yeah she looked really unsure she had the moment to act and she wasn't really sure about it you just tell in her face but um yeah loyalty came through and uh i think he says something like uh i can't read the line no i was actually talking about the girl's son you know he's like that would have been the price i was going to have your son killed for this but i guess we're ahead we're already ahead of this yeah yeah yeah we're ahead on that account this is like oh my gosh get out can you say anything that's not cool i don't think so talking about killing children is cool though he's pretty good at it uh were you tempted and she said not for that weird or something like that implying that yeah i mean if the right guy comes along it's a good line because it tells you everything she's about like i'm gonna follow number one if i don't think you're the best person for zorn then i'm not gonna keep following you that's why i didn't follow vanda yeah um basically get your shit yeah oh then we got i think metal's favorite scene and so now i'm gonna make him describe it fine i'll do it so uh as you seen before we get to this i guess it's like a wall at the at the water or something it's not a bridge it's a wall thingy i see it gets like a little little little letter with the hammer symbol it's like oh shit that's like jay's thing like that's that's the his house symbol i think it was if i remember correctly yeah the symbol of house talus yeah talus exactly so they they meet up up there and they basically they want to talk about how they could come to terms uh and i think silco i'm not sure about the the order anymore but you can correct me on that if you want to um i think silco says like oh you you attack my my facility and then you want to want to trade that's kind of weak uh so why would you do that uh and he basically says okay i want free trade free access just one thing quickly i was gonna point access right at the beginning it's just like look at the posture difference oh yeah hanging over a bit and i think the first thing uh i can't remember whose line is this is it silco's or jay's is one of them says um i was reminded of what brought us together the threats beyond our walls and it's just a obviously the place they're at all these cannons aimed out to the rest of the world yeah i i think that was jay's i think that was jay's yeah jay's is that yeah the the implication being they're meeting here because this place represents the border between piltover and zorn versus the rest of the world yeah yeah but go ahead uh so yeah the silco basically says okay i want free trade and free access to the hextech gates and i want my free nation of zorn so they want to be independent from uh piltover uh and then jay's basically says okay but you have to stop with shimmer and he's like halfway there already because they destroyed the one facility i guess yeah uh and jinx and silco doesn't like that part because he immediately goes to protect her it's like oh she was working for me so you can have me instead and then jay's just says the line we can't make a deal with the snake it then cut off its head we need someone to be responsible which is another great line yeah and he also says we all have we all have our shitty parts to play get me jinx and you get your nation of zorn and then he just leaves yeah jay's chat has opened this scene pretty hardcore actually jay's is such a mega shed and it's so great because silco's slightly upset sorry yeah it's like i notice how he's all he's he's kept his eyes locked on jay's this whole time like he's in control but the moment that jay's asks for jinx his eyes start to divert to the side a few times like get shifty like oh yeah absolutely right she was actually under my orders yeah because he's not in control this scene now because it's like it showed a weakness and it's like whoa because he arrived here all confidence like oh look he did one attack and now he's he's cucking out and wants to do some little trade what a what a dingus and as many would want us to point out the choice he's just being given is vanda's choice yep yes yes it's just super interesting because uh normally the protagonist gets the choice at the end here with the antagonist giving the choice because does he does uh just jay's explicitly says like oh i just want to save you because you wouldn't win this war we wouldn't massacre you well yeah there's a really cool interaction where he was like you play you tip your hand you you showed like the fact that we're meeting after you do your attack shows that like you don't have the balls to go through with it and then jay says like uh no i'm worried that i'm going to absolutely obliterate you yeah and like i even silk was kind of surprised by that response just like absolutely okay that's so great because he's right he only used two hextech weapons well look how effective they are yeah exactly in the last time they did it now they've got even super duper tech um yeah they might have shimmer but that won't be enough to uh destroy or take over it build over there's a small interaction here as well oh yeah there you go uh that's actually fair jace knows the name jinx thanks to vai um anyway he goes to pull out his demands i think and jace doesn't flinch and uh you know like because it could be a gun or whatever and i i think uh silk was actually impressed and he doesn't like plants the paper against his coat he doesn't really wait for him to get his hand out he just goes blank yeah i just think these two i'm just like i think the silco noticing he's not quite useless this jace guy he's yeah yeah uh it's really really good scene it's really cool because uh it's the silco's always had all the power and all the conversations and he gets exactly what he wants almost immediately at the cost of something he loves it's like wow yeah and and and just it's it's actually a pretty straightforward deal and it's reasonable yeah it's heavily reasonable it's just it's the one thing that he really doesn't want to give up get me the terrorist who attacked my city and i'll give you all the stuff you want especially when thinking deal four zone it's amazing deal like they could get off with basically everything for one person but fortunately the person is jinx and the silco is not gonna gonna give her away i think we don't know quite yet what decision he's gonna make he's just really upset about this though yeah which lines up with everything we've seen so far and um it's especially awkward because she did all of that to impress him back in episode four yeah and now look it's his unwell we'll get to that yeah i just love that line with us we can't make a deal with this snake and then cut off its head and then immediately following up with we all have our shitty parts to play it's like damn you're right i think i think this scene is like a testament to how far jacers come like as a character yeah after all of this fumbling around trying to figure out what the hell he wants to do like with all of this energy and potential no idea how and where to throw it i'm competing voices as well now like his voice is a lot louder in his own head he's figured out what he thinks is right yeah exactly which i think is a larger theme in the show maybe in terms of you know personal identification someone said silco is not thanos here that's true he's much better than thanos is that really an o statement like thanos is pretty good in like by one movie but uh in one movie yeah and then in the second movie where is a fucking clown just a giant clown yeah like a very much a clown in that film people say just shots fired that should be controversial shots fired was that ever i'm actually kind of surprise people don't agree with that i i oh he said he said i met not as good as sacrificing his daughter true oh that's much better at doing that oh i see okay that's true yeah yeah yeah he did then we had a scene of heimadinger seeing the sanctuary and being thoroughly impressed specifically that it's so amazing what you can all do in such little time and then he's like yeah well when your life depends on it uh there's a lot of stuff you get done which is kind of interesting to think about with everything that's happened with heimadinger he's got such wonder on his face and it just makes me happy that heimadinger is now in a position where he can help some people who really need it while also making up for maybe a lot of mistakes he's made in terms of not taking care of the undercity as part of piltover yeah i i hope to see more of that in a certain next season yeah uh okay and it's cancelled no yeah no start the line in response to talking about the form is quite important as well as there's something like you can't just give people what they need to survive you have to let them live as well yeah give them what they need to live hmm good shit which is part of the more you know expressive side of what you can do with science and uh ingenuity and then we get a lot of people's pick for best scene in the show uh yeah this is a strong one this is also one of my favorites silco has everything he wants now everything he's tried to get since as early as he could probably remember it's all on the table he just has to and what do i what do i lose but problems yeah yeah um and he says a thousand times i've imagined this moment the boy didn't even haggle and what do i lose but problems it all makes sense now it all makes sense now brother echo said the same thing as a kid remember that um what about jace yeah jace didn't haggle yeah oh right yeah yeah um and yeah and you gradually realize he's at a statue dedicated to vanda jace's character involvement is that he does not learn to haggle yes just say it it all makes sense now brother is there anything so undoing as a daughter literally fucking that is referenced like everywhere related to arcane that line yeah just so important to the entire season yep he should have just said bitches be trifling what's pretty great about this scene as well is that at this point in time you're not quite sure what decision is going to make yeah um but it's just really there's nobody around you know this is like the most the clearest expression of how he feels about um about something's pretty cool to his character well pretty cool pretty much at his core um yeah it's really great and then but this shot is by the way before they reveal it you see this shot you can just make her out yeah yeah oh yeah a little bit of hair could also be fringy that's what a fucking great shot it's a really great shot look at him yeah because fucking silk goes had his thing like throughout the entire season of you have to stop at nothing like that's what power is and that's how you get what you want there is a base amount of like you need to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals and of course he has been willing to sacrifice things with his until now into the end of the city but nothing quite so personal to him what's his echo under under thing he's never had to like give up something that he personally cares about or at least it doesn't seem that way not on this level at least pause one out for vanda to yeah yeah as a gesture of yeah like i get it now as someone said it's interestingly allowed that statue to even exist respect for a fallen brother so i think he's got a lot of mixed feelings about vanda yeah plus it would make him look really really bad it would make him look bad to us it to a certain extent yeah because there's still people who like vanda vanda was still like a lot of vanda and tass down his statue i would still say like vanda whether or not he became the lie that silco is going to tell it's like he would still have represented the the beginnings of you know saving the under city yep yeah jinx is in a bad way um and so seeing her here and look at these eyes she's already thinking like jesus christ silco is gonna give me up um for reference abandoning me she's basically at critical she doesn't know what to trust at all in any way shape or form anymore plus she's got she's shimmer boosted and she's just gone through like the worst torment she's probably ever had in her life she wants answers now um and so that's why she's gotten katlyn already and this is why she's with silco um she's in a bad way but we'll come back to that but now we've got a big ol fight scene pick fight scene they have like uh there's two little little guards outside a little tank tank bros and i think savika spots something through the door that implies they've been beaten up and so she's already getting ready for like something bad is about to happen yeah there's like a blood splatter i think um you notice is it first and then she basically tells everybody to get the fuck out so she and vi can have their final fight it's funny to me by the way like there's memes about how they constantly have fights throughout the season it's like it's twice two fights i guess it can feel like more i don't know uh so i guess this will be one of them moments of just showing some of the cool bits in the fight this the track is pretty awesome yeah it's um and they they're pretty rough they rip the fuck into each other it's a really violent fight a violent fight yeah i like the first grab she gets and her and throws her also ruined savika during the throw is like what the fuck is happening what magic bullshit is this a weight uh in the middle as well when vi takes off one of her fucking gloves to go and get a drink while savika catches her breath i love that part i also love the um flings the glass at savika yeah savika's just like fucking fuck off annoying um yeah they don't show us a lot of the fight it's a lot a lot of it's from the outside and then uh yeah vi just looking to have a break which is really fun to put in fights yeah because it's fights are exhausting if you didn't know like this you move a lot it hit it kind of hearts the hearts yeah and look she does the thing with her arm again they mom yeah uh like that i don't know yeah uh i'll try to get the shot here it is i think copyright makes this awkward but yeah it just it really does come across as like don't do that you don't need to do that this is a fest fight come on um and i love the the yell vi does before flipping the pool table because it's probably pretty heavy she's like screaming right out of it's like again look at these fucking frames awesome as hell we saw savika's blade but there it is swish god that's a surprise and a half i guess yeah yeah look on my face throughout the entire little bit um yeah uh savika kind of beats her ass at this point because she keeps going to try and block these like big old blasts uh yeah and it just starts to just pull up more with the juicy juice well this this spends savika's power when she does each of these moves and then she has to okay yeah she even lands one of the the sword thing on one of the gauntlets and it's like burning her and she screams again it's just like yeah be hurt it's a fight rounds of quits is woo um yeah and savika stabs the blade right through the gauntlet and it fucks with the uh power core i guess of it and suddenly it's really heavy yep and uh yeah if i don't know that this sword even like necessarily makes it a completely uneven fight but i just lose this because she she doesn't know what the fuck's happening so she's caught completely off guard she doesn't know how to block this thing or when she should counter yeah it's not the usual fight um and then we get a little chat from an old friend because vi's about to be fucking wasted and while yeah savika's repowering the arms she's putting in uh more shimmer that's a interesting design change by the way because she does that then you are after the shimmer tank thingy on the first one gets shot off yeah this one has like the god element and stuff so you wonder if she did that because it can't be shot off as easily this time around and i guess it lets her regulate the income of shimmer yeah like it goes in when she puts the thingies in it rather than just pumpkin whenever it feels like it when she was charging the arm it seemed to like affect her body in a bit i don't think she wanted that to happen anymore so she came up with a better method something a little less contact heavy to her actual body someone said why doesn't she see a glimpse of vanda playing the guitar at his porch it's like a fucking game uh oh yeah vanda says your god needs work i wish i could say it gets easier but i'd be lying he still needs you they all do get back up yeah more than enough to get it back up just get back up and just a reminder of how much band is awesome only three episodes you got him before you know yeah and really it's like two and a half left a good impact what can you say um but yeah she gets back into the fight and she fucking wrecks savika with um like an energy fieldy move that bounces her up for a second and it gives her a chance to grab the arm and pull it so hard that it just rips at the seam which would be at a body no she had that energy field move she had no idea i don't think she had any idea she had it you look at the look on her face like what the fuck but then she just capitalizes on it's like nope roll with it she's in the air she's defenseless destroy the game well and uh it's not just that but i think that it's more than reasonable for this it looks to be like if you were mining and there was some kind of uh collapse that this is what designed to prevent this collapse from killing you yeah reactive and you bring your ultimate cover yourself from something above yes yeah yeah something like that looks together well yeah and that's the thing we've seen it with jayce's hammer there was a similar power so i it's not hard for me to believe that that was something that was in the gauntlet it is a part of jaysa's design he doesn't want to make weapons he really does want to help with weapons allowing allowing the shield to come out of something as like an emergency thing like yeah dude that's what jayce would do that's the thing with humans man we took the nuke just a standard tool and we turned that into a weapon good job like wait what was it what was it full before like oh you know purely decorative purely decorative um yeah i just like as well that something's gotta give is the uh is the phrase but if you pull really hard where is it gonna rip on this line and it's like probably where savika's arm connects to savika's shoulder that's gonna be the weakest point look at that fucking face from vai too damn yep she yanks it off gives her a good gut punch and throws her into a into the wall and it's it's an interesting moment because savika's not dead she's definitely not killed her but this is i've won like the fight is over i won and um she screams so why does she do that oh sorry i just means how like i i figure it's just i don't know she's just overwhelmed as shit that stuff's actually going right for her i guess it doesn't look like a particularly happy scream so it's really tough to tell what's going on through her head i mean you got better insight than me go for it my take would be that combined with all the normal pressures this was actually something of a goal she's had since savika and many betrayed vanda this is like representative of some form of justice for vanda for which she has received none so far yeah justice this this is a big bit of closure right here there's been gunning for what seven years is yeah oh um yeah the you know i don't know if you've talked enough about vibe but i like her quite a bit he does a good ass yeah man does she have to work to get those things to happen that she wants to happen and it's not even seconds later she's like silco because he's the he's the last one she's got a fucking obliterate and she goes to pick up the uh the second gauntlet and look at what they do with this framing and yeah it's just safe to assume that drinks would have wanted to collect by as well she probably watched the fight um and she says bravo sess knocks her the fuck out and i've seen two criticisms one okay how did jinx get in that place without vye realizing um i mean she's a little bit distracted i'm trying to beat the hell out of that one you know it's such a fucking frustrating question it's like man if only was there anything else going on and is jinx capable of sneaking up on people anyway and does she have any variables right now that make her fast no yes well that's like uh yes to all of them yes yeah none of them is like battering to me yeah just battering um and then the second criticism wow vye doesn't even react to the sound of uh powder talking she's tired i just said they're like we're talking about her like a second it's just yeah the woman is fucking barely awake like can you chill someone in chat just wrote vye didn't place awards well y'all are gonna have to finish it up because i need to go damn we go so close so get close but you're gonna have to round out the end because i have to be on my way for tonight who's your favorite character that's probably jace um but there's a lot of uncommon pick by the way it should not be he should be a top tier pick i i i like jace a lot but um i think there is a reason why is a less common pick um not not for lack of being a great character but more given the competition i'm i was i'm tormenting jason silco um it's tough to say wow so uh on the basis of who's the most popular and least popular where does jinx sit for you um not too interested uh she's very well written just not something i have much of an interest in in terms of like a character i guess that just doesn't quite do it for me but he's very well written in in i guess short terms do you think that in the mold of characters like i just to say the harley quinn archetype feels like it's a little bit too reductive but in that mold how do you think that she compares to like other characters in that mold i can't think of any that are better i mean she would be at the top i assume like i can't no one that i can think of comes close to that unless i'm just forgetting one for some reason i assume she's the best roby's holly quinn oh no uh the fact that she got three movies and it's basically yeah in three movies we know practically nothing matters it's so hard to it's it's so hard to see like they they always try to characterize harley quinn as like oh this this this really poor soul and everything but she's like oh look how she deals so quirky but it's like it's when when we try to i don't know what it is about harley quinn i mean she's funny and all in like the batman animated series and stuff but i don't know man when they try to really characterize her i have trouble believing that she's gone from a doctor to a crazy person just by talking to joker i just i don't know it that's a difficult one yeah that if you were to write the scenes that drive her to you know fall in love with them and simultaneously kind of lose her mind and stuff it's like yeah that'd be tough to write that someone should do it well yeah you know like i really like i really liked the way they did it in suicide no where it's just like where it's just like yeah she fell in love with him like yeah you know you know the way yeah that happens that's just you know that's what happened shut up what do you mean that doesn't make any sense you're a bad person uh so i i guess if that's done i'll go ahead and i'll leave well i'll when we see you again i might ask you just some basic end of show questions just so people get answered you know like favorite scene favorite episode if you have any of those like you know just standard normal questions but until then we sure yeah absolutely i will see all of you later bye later on later on the episode boy good boy and it's funny as well he is like this is it now though i think the all we get is like scenes the piltover council talking and the final scene uh this like the main thing we get so you have good ol jay says my recent unsanctioned activities have taught me that we are not fit to rule those in our undercity they are right not to trust us mel was right victor and i have one final proposal peace and they're already like um we do cut back and forth to these two big scenes so i'm not sure how we should go about this maybe we should take it with that scene first in its entirety up until like right at the end and then uh and then just go from the yeah so the council scene makes sense first right up until listen point yes yes uh yeah okay um i'm trying to remember they they propose sovereignty and peace and they're all like and then we get a i think is the next time we return to this the shot of mel putting down a family ring and then saying i agree with councillor talus's proposal and i think what we're supposed to gather from that is that if she starts the train we can get the rest of them on board yeah and uh yeah this is huge for mel because this is the decision between her house and what if she's wanted a whole life or the violence that the war will bring um and she ends up choosing to go with peace with jace's side and i think we're probably in the clear for saying nothing more until yes yeah that's probably it i think jace specifically says he made a deal with uh silicone right yep i think he said that yes i'm out about it yeah they're very heads well look at the fucking tecno union leader look at him he's just they're not happening fuck you jace eat shit uh which would bring us to the beginning of the big old lost scene so what's really cool and i i planted a flag for this in the beginning of the first episode when good old uh vye wakes up the first thing she sees is the uh i think you knew the name of it as well right theo this device that's what she calls it yeah she's jade jinx's own version is she's made one and it's just like it's so quick and you don't have to think anything of that at all but if you remember it then yeah she really liked it she made her own just a neat detail um and so yeah uh we don't really know what's going on vye's tied up and jinx is doing evil villain speech in the background while walking around um and she says that they're in uh the same area that vanda was killed that's like just where they are right now um and she says silco thinks he made jinx with all of his ranting um excise your doubts become what they fear like everything was the same that's when vanda left him but he didn't make jinx you did which um is is true if you look at the events unfortunately as they unfolded that one arguably small and arguably wise decision by made has had such drastic repercussions that have brought us all the way here it's why episode three is super like hyper impactful yeah that one scene um and she says i never meant to leave you and uh as she's like panickingly looking around trying to find where jinx is because she keeps like the voice keeps coming from different areas she says um i always heard you shadows in the street prickles on my neck your voice pushing me picking me up when uh which is when all the colors were black you're the reason i'm still alive there's uh there's a lot to think about good stuff and then you get the uh i think this was a part of like this is the climax of the trailer for the show but she says are we still sisters vise says nothing's gonna change that it's easy to say easier said than uh how fucking creepy jinx is in this scene compared to before yeah yeah the glowing purple eyes like good boy um yeah she reveals that uh silk goes tied up here and she says he took everything from us he stabbed vander here in the back like he would do to me um and uh he says you'd abandon me when you knew the truth uh so yeah this is just everything that she's been dealing with throughout the season jinx she has no fucking answers that she can believe and uh i think then she basically says like it's gonna be up to you will i be sitting in which chair and uh you got a chair that has jinx written on it and it's like made of metal and it's all spindly and then the powder chair is just wooden and dare i say very normal looking it's just like i feel like all her little sparkly powder bombs over there next on the table just felt very deliberate that they did the chairs that way because you know powders a little more chill than jinx you know a little bit a little bit um yeah and she's also got like places set for vander milo and clagger and uh and she says oh there's one more person and uh said i um i gave your girlfriend a little visit and uh this is the thing this is you know it's gonna be different for everybody but she turns up with a fucking platter and uh like yeah for for a moment there it's because like it's katelyn you can't kill you wouldn't kill katelyn she'd be like she'd fight a gun like once um yeah then she lifts it up and uh she said the exact same reaction is vye i was just like no no no what's in the box um yeah she says i'm not that crazy this is like i don't know jinx i don't know i think you are i think you are crazy all she does is lift it up and it's a cupcake with the uh the gym on top of it it's like um jeez i'm not that crazy yeah for me it was like for me it was like a what what they they would but they would they would right but wouldn't they i i i have pretty much the same reaction like oh no no no and jinx is genuinely fascinated by how much vye is terrified as well she's like hey man really is getting to you right they even flash a picture of yeah they flashed a picture oh man i love how the silka wouldn't have given a shit either way he just been like okay he was just witnessing this like a cringe cringe i'm the important one what uh who's katelyn nobody cares i would have totally got the head on i would have totally got the head on there i'm just imagining silka going cringe like what um pops the thing off you are cringe now jinx has very simple math here does vye care more about me or katelyn i think an easy way to prove that is that i'll offer to be powder if she just kills katelyn oh that's simple there's hands over the gun she's like kill her just to prove that witch hell if i just like no no and she's like mmm that's pretty fucking annoying and proof that i'm not valued as much as katelyn huh and she puts the gun on katelyn herself it's just like a matter of like god it's so much more complicated than that why do you think that like just oh yeah just kill her and everything will be great this like no um but yes i think uh silko starts uh wibble wobbling and so jinx is like all right what do you have to say about all of this and like the first thing he says is she's lying she's absolutely lying she's not going to be fucking her name is jinx oh yeah because he believes in jinx he's fucking done with powder powder powder shit and he says uh the top side has offered me everything in exchange for you but they can all burn everyone betrays us they'll never understand it's only us you are my daughter i'll never forsake you so now there's a lot to think about yeah all that uh all that talking about how he betrayed her and all of a sudden she's like oh man that's really sweet yeah he also makes the very good point of like i'll be with you a day before she realizes that things have changed yeah that you're not that girl anymore milo starts talking so she shoots him a little teddy bear vision i guess or whatever it is uh and it makes a glass fall over and smash in such a way that it can be used as a cutting item right next to katlyn pretty convenient uh ultimately well we're about to get to how much that leads to so as she's talking to silko and definitely getting some feels look at it she's already breaking apart when he's explaining how much he should be given a chance and stuff um i think the fact that she shoots milo just quickly like that's that says a lot she's she's had enough yes she's i'm making the decisions now shut the fuck up um she hears her gun being prepped i think or at least the really look at her expression like i'm trying to figure stuff out katlyn like seriously give me a minute yeah and then silko just looks very like oh shit because something's gonna happen here mm it's very unclear because anything really could happen what it's kind of interesting is he doesn't seem at all caring about his own welfare right now all he's all that matters to him right now is whether or not uh powder or jinx is convinced whether or not she's powder and that seems to be the only thing that matters to him right now it's the closest to desperate i think we've seen him his expression immediately when uh kate pulls the gun on uh jinx uh fuck yeah jinx tries to draw it to shoot uh katlyn but katlyn shoots around here before she can even pull the trigger and i think the idea is supposed to be that katlyn's saying i will be faster than you so don't um which is interesting considering you do typically have to spool before you can fire and she's got a pistol which is just instant and she's a very good shot with it but uh jinx does take that as proof i won't be able to shoot you before you shoot me fine um and she's like a little little goofily does like a head button down and then i think vi realizes what's about to happen because she then like frowns and uh she does a fast shimmer move and uh grabs the the gun and knocks it into katlyn so really katlyn temporarily breaking out really doesn't have any kind of effect on anything um she goes back to being in that position straight away so down she goes because i was a little annoyed with the glass i was like really like okay last can do that i i can believe that i guess but certainly not that quickly and just gosh that's a lucky lucky wombo um but she goes to kill katlyn and then vi starts pleading with her and does something that's probably not wise she says no yeah uh damage powder remember who you are and then yeah she says but you have a silco in the background being like no shut the fuck up no it's like uh oh no everyone appears to her well yeah let's let's get a look at these pictures shall we already it's just like no it's not helping to picture these people all right yeah vi just doesn't understand that the past is not a place of refuge for jinx yeah i think it's a really good way of doing this because how could she know that well yeah and um we talked about in a different call but it was just recently that we had vi picturing vanda and compare that to this yeah jesus oh god oh so you might notice that vanda's pictured as kind of a wolf a little bit so yeah we did talk about um that in the first stream right the uh the connection to warwick yeah but um that feels like another old fit like they knew what they were doing but yeah so just it's perfectly in line with vi to think that appealing to these people would help but it's a fucking disaster on jinx's end yeah um and yeah silco managed to get at the gun that she put down just earlier when uh obviously all the the big dramas were happening and uh he gets his chance while she's just getting absolutely fucking told to shreds in her own braid but the part that i absolutely love is he grabs the gun and we've seen her do this before as well with how this gun works because i fucking don't know how it works but i know that before firing it you do a little little twink thing tink tink sound a little thing pops out and that sound is obviously something that she's gonna be pretty familiar with it shows him it does the thing and then we cut right into her and she looks up because that's the sound she knows she knows her gun's about to be fired and so just reacts grabs the gatling gun and shoots silco which is a decision so i mean you know fundamentally in that moment you have to decide let silco kill vile kill silco you gotta choose between well doesn't she just swing around under like shots and yeah silco fires one shot off yeah yeah you miss it you're in the shoulder i think graze it's a shoulder um yeah i mean silco silco was probably very discheesed that uh vile was causing jink to hurt in that way and she didn't even realize this this expression of just that's it yeah that's about that um and yeah a lot of people get upset by this in terms of just no silco yeah she she immediately regrets the decision quote unquote but i don't know that she regrets that vile's life was saved you know it's it's a very complicated thing i'm a jiggle happening here yeah i've i've saved one but i just lost the other of my family i i don't think she i'm not meant to do that yeah she just kind of did it on reflex because that's what she is she is just as impulsive as vi at this point but to a much more crazy degree um yeah and then we get another line that's constantly referenced silco says i never would have given them to you uh you to them not for anything don't cry you're perfect i don't even care that he's dying so like that's gonna make sure she's okay concern is to make sure that she's okay yeah there's so much to say about his choice to say this last uh if we go with he wants his plan to be enacted i don't because a lot of people argue that that might be his primary motivation i don't think it is because he doesn't even mention it i think his primary motivation is letting her know he loved her yeah yeah and clarifying in no uncertain terms when there's kind of no reason to lie at this point this is like no uh yeah you're my daughter um and i love you just the way that you are which is pretty significant for jinx because like a whole issue that she's been grappling with for the series um is the idea that she is like deeply deeply flawed um like she is the way you know well i mean she is but like you know everybody keeps telling her that like silco even for better or for worse i think it's important to specify silco completely validated her as as exactly who she was yeah which is something that she has received from nobody else uh not even like so i want powder not jinx yeah but she's not and wow actually i'm jumping down a little bit yeah we're almost there uh just going again the fucking expression in this moment too look at those eyes there's so much feeling in those eyes um but yeah that's that's it for silco i don't know if is it now the time to talk about silco as a whole since that is the end of his story sounds good to me what a fun and fantastic character yeah absolutely awesome villain um i think he's my favorite character um yeah i would i would say that vye comes vye comes in as a close second i like a lot wow it's just so fucking good my second is probably victor um hey we're close to being able to talk about that or our listings give it a bit specifically about silco it's just a wonderfully complete story it's absolutely phenomenal his dialogue is top-notch this guy comes across as completely in control of all of the horrible elements of his own empire that have all seemed to be an aid of one particular goal that isn't at all evil the goal itself it's just that he's so ruthless and he's decided early on in life that the only way to achieve said goal is to not have any limits about it which um hey only to them is it reflects lines from a certain i want to get a message to theo and fringy specifically without saying anything else to anyone else so a certain blue person that should be enough mr manhattan uh she the blue person i thought it was pretty funny says um if you want to win a war you must serve no master but your ambition i think is something that she says he's got a lot of really good lines but silco would have liked her quite a bit um he's yeah he just spends the whole fucking season being the mega chad and then right at the end he gets the exact same situation that he killed vander for there's it's nothing but meaningful it's amazing his big criticism of vander was giving it up to the enforcers and choosing his family over the zorn like over zorn's independence over zorns just making a deal with them at all it's fucking disgusting how could you that is like he gets everything he could ever want on a platter exchanged for the daughter and vander gives himself up wasn't why and silco gives himself up for jinx or at least gives up zorn for jinx silco had no frame of reference for that criticism he was leveling before but he gets it now he gets it now he that's the really important thing like well it's a different experience can inform like how well you're able to interpret a message or some sort of lesson it's easier i don't want to say easy but it's easier to say from the outside you should have given up your family or whatever else you should have made some great personal sacrifice for the cause but when it's when it's you and i don't know it's a little bit more difficult like people have guessed nebula and yandu as my mystery blue person no it's not barvel don't worry about it you don't need to know who it is uh i'm worried about it yes dr ben hatton there you go um but yeah i said that like five minutes no you did you said like dr womb hatton you said some weird account i even said oh nobody left that's sad and then nobody acknowledged me that's different no fuck you yeah idiot doctor and mister two different titles they don't care i'm one i'm doctor assist um but yeah he's gone his light has faded his watch is ended and um he's fucking completely broken and then soon after that she uh he's in a different state yeah and then she makes a decision just look at that expression this is information i get from looking at these faces i'm like i don't understand exactly what she's feeling right now you don't have to say nothing we got you yep you've got the the spooky uh mental damage whispers going in the background just quietly so much on her plate she was probably fucking wrong about silco that's what that is i made a mistake there jesus christ he was probably the best person for me in terms of accepts me for who i am and then vi is like uh hello are you and then they just have this shot where she's just thinking and breathing and it's like um you uh what's going on i remember this point in the seat i was just like good god anything could happen right now yeah i don't know oh jeez um makes a decision oh yeah i guess very important she makes a very important decision regarding silco i think it's worth mentioning as well that um the connection of vanda sees himself in vi and gives her the advice he believes is needed uh that he would have wanted when he was younger and silco does that exact same shit with jinx to the point where his calling her perfect i'm pretty sure is simply commenting on what he would have liked to have heard when he was trying so hard when he was so young uh so much of growing and nurturing their respective children relates to them as people as well it's like maybe they can turn out better um but yes uh her kill count right now is staggering um for people that she's killed in a sense both of her fathers uh as a result of her actions the two of her childhood best friends and she is there is no powder anymore like this is this is the big big moment that's obviously made clear by her choosing to sit in the jinx chair um there's just a matter of coming to terms with a lot of that is uh she says i thought maybe you could love me like you used to even though i'm different but you changed to ears to the new us a little pause before she says even like different in the even though i'm different the look on her face like it's she's not all too commonly like enormously lucid about what she's become there's a couple of times for the first time and she says like she says to buy an episode six things changed when you left i changed and then this time like it's a really subtle kind of thing to just tell you she is not pleased with how she's ended up and the the thing that's making her so lucid is the idea of wanting to go back to how things were before right and realizing how that just wouldn't work anymore and she wouldn't situation isn't even here that's the problem yeah yeah this is uh i'm really glad that this is what happened because it just feels more honest to me you know how like a lot of things do that i know you're in there deep down this is more recognition of um you're right unfortunately when you go on a certain track in life and then you have all of these experiences and you do these things you end up in a place where it's like um no actually no she's jinx she could form she form a new better person but she's never going to be exactly who she was before yeah i mean well yeah but she could but she can't she can't undo the show has several episodes beginning with what i would refer to as possibly like core memories core experiences for people that's to find them going forward and like i think the show is arguing it's like you can't just undo them like that's no you can't just undo them with an appeal to like hey come on we can be a family again it's like what does that mean like the the person you're talking to is not the person that you know um it's it's over there is no like appeal that you can make that can just reverse years of your life in terms of how that forges you as an individual people don't change speeches don't undo that yeah there is no speech that you can give that's gonna yeah undo that this actually from visepov i she doesn't have anything to work with she hasn't seen this person in so long and jinx has gone through a lot of very formative experiences without her everything she appeals to is years old and tied to an extremely traumatic memory i mean that's the thing for virus to struggle throughout this whole show she's just unaware there's so much she's missed out on it even reflects hardcore with echo because echo's just like are you crazy like with a lot of the things you're saying it's like you have no idea what's happened um i love this shot as well by the way yeah that shots my favorite with the line over the top of it um and yeah the game fans again it's like is she about to fucking ulti she has she's about to ulti the council god damn so yeah super stylized looks fucking amazing and it seems that vi knows what she's about to do and she feels bad about it katlyn is distraught to say the least because her mom's up there yep um also jinx screams like hell when she's firing that thing i would imagine it may be related that it's painful to fire as well the energy but i imagine it's because she's not exactly happy about doing this i think that's a lot of rage in this she just she just kind of lost yet another father and now she's just like fuck the world well and this was silco's design this is the thing we're almost to the end of the events of the show and so we can just talk about things in general but um yeah we got a flash of heimerdinger and echo uh happily working away and discussing stuff while the camera shows us a clock in the foreground that's just satisfying to see um and as they show this each council member is voting yes to the piece we see silco sorry singed is holding a uh locket with what we presume to be is now lost daughter and uh it could end up being that that's a rihanna as as has been mentioned before that's the precise same hairstyle it is and we get a very quick shot of what has to be warwick yeah look at him up yeah look at him up yeah that's what i had missed earlier that's gonna be big hype it's just so quick now people will be excited to see warwick i'd be excited uh yeah and um we see the uh mel's mum checks out the painting that theo was mentioning earlier but it's like scribbled apart sort of like paint has been splashed over it very much paste it with yellow gold i wonder what that could mean is uh gold is evil no it's a color that one would associate with pilto no gold is evil she's saying that nox is evil no pilto was like green i don't know what you've been fully green oh my bad um but yeah you know these these are all as far as i'm concerned just a flash of a couple of images of don't leave once you hit the credit sorry we'll be back there's lots of stuff to do here uh yeah the next one as well there's this this shot and um a friend of mine unironically got confused the jinx was trying to blow up the moon um and that would have been confusing that would have been very confusing yes uh like oh no she's shooting at the council oh no how are we good he said that when he first finished this show he was he was absolutely lost at this point and so the scene wasn't really working for him because he was pretty sure that it's stupid to try and blow up the moon it's such a like absurd cartoony thing like jinx's final part of the moon it kind of looks like it's flying to the moon yeah i know it's super stylistic at that point but um yeah this probably best represents the way these two feel about this event not great and yeah just to fade into katlyn's mom as well well yeah who also votes for peace which as this is progressing it's getting gradually more and more sad that basically the entire council have voted yes uh like all happy it's like yay we did it the rocket's almost prepared and uh yeah we just you know it's gotta be mentioned that uh they show mel's back light up yeah right here and it looks like she's noticed something right before the rocket hits so i don't know what they're trying to tell us with that but we'll find out next time because this is the last thing you see before it's over yeah such a cool ass shot you're so good yeah and that's our king we finished the season with an ulti how cool is that mel's not for no reason mel's gonna be a support character and she'll ulti will be to make everybody in the room be unable to drop below one hp hey will you trim the mirror please no you just wait for it wait for it to happen wait hold on no hold on that already exists i was about to say i think that does exist right that's that's kindred's ult yeah gosh theos what are you a shitty lul expert cheese uh yeah i don't know yeah um so roll credits good shit now what music in that last scene i can only hoping for from that cliffhanger is my first question right well i'm gonna make a guess and say jace cannot die he might even have a shielding thingy on something because he's been putting shielding thingies on of all this tech maybe he might add have one on him who knows my guess reality is that everyone dies except jace victor and mel i'm guessing that's what they'll do and then victor might get very badly hurt that's probably what they'll do yeah what we would like them to do because it's been discussed in different calls but uh came up with this scenario which i would like to describe the uh the scenario with fucking teeth okay season two opens with a brutally injured victor crawling out of that room covered in blood yeah everyone in there's dead they've been torn to shreds jace goodbye and mel goodbye there's no way they do this but that would be the balls on them for doing that you know and he crawls his way i want that to do i want that i want that crawls his way to the hex core because that's the level of desperation he needs to get him to use the hex core again to save him oh i mean we could we could actually see him use the hex core on um jace and then mel and then like the power is out or anything and he can't revive the rest that could be how they live um i don't know i wouldn't want to say that there's no way for them to do it that would like not like the idea that they keep the three of those alive and i can't be happy with that is like it'll depend it'll really depend on how they execute it because they have dropped a seed in there something's going on with mel i don't know what it is if it's as simple as no she just has a reflective back and the rocket reflected okay just imagining through the window boing back out well yeah that's the thing right if it's like uh how can they execute that's like there's a lot of different things they could do it we'll have to see what they do when they do it i just don't know um i yeah i don't know what we're in for but um hopefully we don't get this uh this show's normal track record with explosions and plot armor well yeah because you know what would be the worst when rolls in there is if it opens up and the you know the rooms is rubble everywhere there's clearly all of the bodies are just on the ground with bits of mud on their faces and then mel is like jason's just standing there yeah well jace is carrying her and victor out of the room and then she's like what about the others and he goes they're all dead it's like yeah okay yeah all right that's that's what i expect god i really hope you don't have to roll that flip at the start of the day of the rk season two discussion if they did that it's not like season two can't still be amazing it's just well it's like it's just like well i guess we have to take explosions in this show seriously then because like you know three is the pattern um and that's the only reason why i would happily have victor survive is that his augments already there's an implication there maybe that he's got something that's gonna make him persist but i would i would go as far as probably tearing some some shit off of him uh in a very violent way because of just you gotta you gotta make it feel like it actually has weight to toss a hextech rocket inside that room you know um so anyway it's time for us to open up into all kinds of discussions um may i start with what i believe to be the theme of this terrible show yeah go for it uh funnily enough so it's been mentioned and then we're finally here uh it's it's the same thing as the last of us two a lot of people have already noticed this and that's not a problem at all lots of stories do the same theme um to because there's so many ways to explore it but the funny thing i guess is a connection is that there's lots of pieces in this that really do remind you of the last of us two um a lot of people can pay the deaths of vanda and joel and what it means to the other characters and stuff and it's just like man one of them has a lot of a lot of respect and reverence the other one doesn't i wonder what the difference is wonder why people hate one and love the other i wonder why the idea of elastivus three is a fucking nightmare but the idea of arcane season two is a desperate thing ever was now i would also want to go as far as saying that uh there's more than there's always loads of themes you can pull out of a thing i just mean the broadest one that i think the show is aiming for uh which is covered in the last of us two as well the simplest way to put it um i've talked about this a couple of you guys but uh i think the theo you made it the shortest possible which would be violence begets violence the point the show would be making isn't necessarily to say that violence is good or bad or even specific elements of all the different things that can happen as a result just that this it's the cycle and i would go as far as saying katelin says it explicitly in episode seven i think um essentially the inequality of zorn and pilt over that's how it starts and then that causes more and more tension until somebody makes some kind of mistake it didn't even have to be necessarily a mistake but whatever it is requires retribution from the other party and then that just creates more and more responses from different people who get caught in crossfires and get more involved until it gets higher and higher and then start losing lives and then more lives and there's just fury from basically everybody involved you see that from basically the opening scene the prologue is like the best representation of what this show is entirely about um get the like a guilt written vander looking at well looking to adopt uh powder and vie because their parents were killed in a war that he led now it may have been that they would they volunteered to help and stuff but it's still it's still he feels like he actually talks about this one episode one or two that whatever happens is to and as a result of your um the people you lead it's on you um which is i think just a direct reference to all the shit that he's done in his life and so yeah like he feels responsible for their deaths and sees that the the fight against pilt over all it did was destroy powder and vise lives at least to some degree he's adopting them his attempt at making their lives better um and you could just see that his face we're going over like he drops his weapons in and instead looks after people so like as a result of how bad the war's gotten i feel like that covers the whole show at that point in microcosm but um the show's story broadly i would argue is that uh we go from that early all the way up to that final scene is just the violence getting more and more and more out of control as the show goes on um we go all the way back and then like the first thing vise doing when we meet her in the in episode one after the first scene is that she wants to jump at the opportunity basically to steal from pilt over and the justification is they're better off than us done like it's a pretty simple math um and all she's got is resentment for for pilt over um and that event leads to an explosion and hurts a whole bunch of people's lives in significant ways to the point where the enforcers need to have retribution they have to have someone to pay for that crime it can't just be left undone in any way and it starts to lead to the inspections and the abuse and people are getting hurt as a result of vise choice to do that and she only understands thanks to vanda that that it's it's really on her she's the one that made that decision and she makes a very adult decision considering her age in terms of giving herself up unfortunately that prompts a different character silco been over this how fucking good he is so like he's got his own perspective on how this is all working and it's all started with again the inequalities between dawn and pilt over um and it's prompted by vanda's decision to try and make her life better which is basically all he's intending to do as a result of what happened to their parents by giving himself up and that just leads to even more people getting killed there's like all these different lines getting crossed with all these different interests from different people and uh getting that deal with the enforcers makes silco decide it's time to fucking kill him and take over as the leader of zorn and produce shimmer to like a wide level with the specific intention of shimmer being something they can eventually manipulate into something that can be weaponized against pilt over it's almost like zorn has shimmer while pilt over has hextech it's just that obviously shimmer is so much less controlled and chaotic while hextech even though it is chaotic to some degree as well as the goal of trying to make it as um straightforward it feels much more like a i don't know just just the representatives of each area as well um and that uh you know that's only happening all that shit with silco because vanda tried to kill him why did he try to kill him because silco believed that you should do absolutely anything you can to win the war which is the opposite of what vanda wants to believe in but it it leads to that climax in episode three it's what fucking fucks everything up it's the violence it's everywhere and it's bleeding into everybody we have vanda and gracing in the first three episodes that are perfectly like representative of each side of this fight only looking to calm everything down because they know how bad everything can get even the the older characters the more wiser ones both of them get fucking killed in episode three which i think is very deliberate the the reasonable sides of both zone and pilled over and are dead so everything's just going to get worse it's worth adding to that real quick uh the episode is called the base violence necessary for change which is also kind of i want to say a message coming out of either the show or that episode um in that like some these problems like this i guess vanda and grayson they aren't changing anything the status quo is remaining as it is and a lot of people are not pleased with that zone is still a place of like destitution and uh poverty and you know it's a mess well pilled over continues to prosper very true um so then as a result of all of these different things happening we have that one crystallized event of generating jinks from powder it's all the violence i think just that scene gets created by it from all these different people getting all involved all of them base motivation is retribution for wrongs done to them by someone else and um jinx then goes on to kill so many people and just blundering away through how a mind is just out of control um trying to figure out who even is meanwhile jace having been fueled by uh everything that's happening as well as taking the life of a kid working tirelessly to engage peace and mel having been solely interested in raising like her own station as well as that of built over as like a global power um ends up denying essentially anoxian heritage by uh deciding that peace is the better choice because remember war is a failure of statecraft as she believes um and it's at that moment that jinx destroys the entire council an event that i think previously almost certainly wow not almost certainly will certainly bring about war war is happening now yeah like there's no way there's no stopping it now really yeah and like where that wasn't where that was like a really good chess move for for zon like that would be great progress like nice in terms of just a strategic thing in terms of actually a war happening like right now it's just tragedies explicitly not not even just because it's destroying the attempt to bring peace but now that we've gotten to know so many people in that room and their intentions and how much they've worked to get everything better so it's like and like where does it all run back to like obviously the the the cycles being from all the way back to that prologue it all leads to jinx and that final decision and like what's that going to lead to it's like way more violence pilt over is going to war absolutely it's going to be loads of people going to die as a result of this like it's absolute fucking carnage and it's precisely what so many characters were trying to stop and so many characters end up stopping in like how many examples do we have of people committing to violence and then realizing they shouldn't have very soon after it's uh it's interesting to think about as a as a phenomenon right it's like well we don't want war like we don't want people to die it's like yes we all agree on that yet the council getting blown up it's like well war's happening it's like but wait people don't want more it's like yeah it's not just don't work like that you know like it's like that we're talking about societies it's it's it's people who feel that they've been wrong because they have been wrong but then there's also like we're wrong doing preceded that what were people's intentions it's like well ultimately violence begets violence um yeah it's it's when someone like mentioned oh this starts with her stealing the hex crystal and it's like yeah but why does she do that to impress silco why does she do that because she's seen as weak potentially why does she feel like she might be it's like she's got massive insecurities created by that event at the end of that event at the end of episode three is the is where everything comes from basically for a lot of people yeah um and that is this is why i love it so much that very small decision from vi to leave temporarily like how could she possibly have known that that is what leads directly to all those people getting obliterated in the council she's like you can't yeah no how could you possibly foresee something like that happening and maybe there's an irony there in that she's leaving the situation because she's becoming violent with powder and she's like it's better that i not be here but like that's what leads to it all um it was it was a pretty reasonable decision it's like oh let me just totally is just let me have a breather i'll go get her in like a minute or two maybe five but then yeah all the other stuff happens it's like damn uh but yeah jinx created by all kinds of factors but as she says vice the one that made jinx it's like it's that one decision in that one moment that's really the biggest contributing factor of course her desire to basically just take lives without really caring about it you can imagine that's something that would have happened because of her upbringing with silco we've talked about how that would be something that she might find beneficial mentally because of how much the deaths of weight on her head and then of course just being nurtured by silco is gonna make her probably a lot more villainous than she may have been but it's that one moment um and of course like it's it's it's not even just that level of her upbringing you have to consider Piltova's damage to powder's parents powder being told by vai almost every day of her life that like Piltova suck and they they get all the stuff we don't fuck them we can even beat them up who cares and like how excited she was when she was younger at the thought of going to war with Piltova like that would have just been nurtured as well is it like what silco is going to tell her to calm down is like no he's going to tell her that that's probably where we're heading and that would be good um yeah you know she's she's brought up by like drug dealers and thugs and a boss that wants her to create a weapon that can destroy the entire council like it's it's all because of that one moment um and she would value zon over basically everything else she's already got that hatred of enforcers that's throughout all the the stuff that she does and that's just seven years which is a very long time especially at that age so yeah i i just see jinx as the complete result of all of the violent action in basically all of the story from as early or even earlier than the prologue um and it's just a matter of like this is what happens and i just love that we have the characters on all over the story that have all these different views on how much you should commit to the violence keeping people safe alive happy but also defending yourself and having justified it like you know vise a fucking crazy brawler person who fights everybody at the first chance that she gets able to but she's still someone who sees the value in not reacting that way several times um it may be your first impulse to beat up everything but she's learned a lot from vander and so she really does try to commit a little bit better to not hitting everything she sees but there's always going to be that impulse it's going to be your first yeah and uh so why does jinx pull that trigger uh is a question that some people need answering i suppose here and there on the interwebs and i don't even know where to begin the list is quite enormous in terms of all the reasons she might have to pull it you could start with the easy one being that it was always it was it was the plans designed by silco it was the one thing he wanted and he kept asking her to do and told her it's the most important thing ever as well as um that line that plays when she's about to pull it from him saying we'll show them when he first held it i think that's that's a huge motivation but then there's also she hates the mood there's all the baggage she's had forever in relation to piltover and its relationship to zorn um piltover caused basically i think she would see them as the root cause of all of the shit in her life has gone wrong yeah which isn't hard to do uh because of just all of the the horrors that have happened in zorn as being the i don't know the the black sheep of that area nobody nobody in piltover seems to really care about them that much fully illustrated by heimending his journey uh to mention they were willing to uh keep everybody's independence away until she was brought in from them so they basically want her arrested and put away for god knows how long maybe even forever or executed either way so uh she's already they want her arrested or killed and uh she ain't all about that life so uh there's another reason one um i think to a certain degree she wants to do it um the just the amount of pressure on her whole life as well as her insecurities about power this is the biggest fucking move that anyone has ever done in the history of both areas is the most strongest thing the biggest amount of damage and have major repercussions there may not be much in terms of insecurity about her abilities anymore i think there's a large aspect of bridge burning to it in that she wants to make sure that there is absolutely no way back and that vi hates her which i think interesting thought season two is gonna have to do a lot of addressing for that relationship uh yeah oh yeah and based on that teaser it would seem that we are gonna be going in the direction that we ought to uh now and so uh after your coming back in a box i think it is right yeah bring us back a little just quickly to the holly quinn stuff the reason i hate holly quinn but adore jinx as a character is the the difference is just understanding them with qualitative writing obviously but um yeah not only it's literally a fucking crazy crazy crazy person but i feel like i understand every decision she makes and how much she's struggling with everything that's happened to her holly quinn i have no idea what she's gonna do or say in any scene she's in i'm just like all right she's here now oh she's got a hammer yeah i don't know yeah well it wasn't used i'm walking left and right oh ho ho we use sharyl as an example for sharyl from archer as the example is like hey you know when you it's fucking the laziest shit ever is when rice is just say oh the character is crazy that's why they do random shit with for no reason it's like that's not actually um how crazy people work crazy people still have consistent patterns of behavior they're just not based on what we would consider to be like reality right um or that you know that there's some some fundamental it's some fundamental difference between them and a person who we generally consider to be rational it's not that they are well fucking dice well i mean it's it's like for reference in economics one talks about like rational agents like in the economy like rational doesn't mean that you're making like the most optimal decisions it means that you're operating based on on on like the belief that you are acting in your interests whatever they may be um i feel like i just think about that when it comes to like you know just people in general people act in their interests or people act in what they believe to be their interests um including jinx it's just that her interests are confused and misaligned but like it's all thoroughly explained and a lot of it's done subtly just yeah like i i feel like um there's there's there's no reason to look at the decisions she makes and go oh why would she do that it's like no i no i think i know why she would do that never feels arbitrary to me that she has so much uh inability to decide on who's telling the truth and what she should do next because she's been so thoroughly betrayed and damaged and this is the thing you'd be like whoa whoa do you sound like you think she's like a kind of a good person or something it's like no she's a horrible person um it's just a very very bad person they thoroughly understand how she got there which uh is what we often need for our antagonists which is essentially what she is um she's an antagonist yeah or at least she will be now uh in the next season for sure but i really hope the next season's doing i they gotta they gotta commit to it and i feel i feel like there's reason to believe that they will because they committed to a lot of the unconventional difficult storytelling decisions um we saw that in episode three we saw that in the finale and throughout two there were a lot of other instances where they could have done the safe conventional choice narratively but they decided to commit to what would happen really just gives me a bit more confidence um yeah i think that they earned all of the um all of your moments the cracking i think that but just for example obviously the end of that episode six where he's just just like the the idea of being with vi and maybe that there was more to her life than what she definitely committed to and then like like embracing that for a moment and then realizing like well but i mean i can't really do that it's not really possible and then the next thought being wait a minute is vi lying was i was just not even real because of katlyn and stuff and just having all of that going through your head considering all of her trauma and everything she believes just like i can't imagine any brain sustaining that for very long yep and she's been struggling like her struggle i think throughout the season is how the hell to define herself and who exactly she is because she's caught between a couple of different identities each like leaning on a particular individual for support like uh going into the past as powder with vi and then chinks with silco but in both ways she's really hedging her bets with a specific individual and who they're telling her she is and i think this last bit was a big statement of no i think i know who i am now i'm the person who makes things go wrong yeah a jinx which is just what milo told her over and over again no need for milo to be whispering it in her ear anymore now but she just knows it herself and um in relation to the what i think is the main theme uh just the the lyrics of that song again from the opening which is i'm not even sure what the name of the song is but um dear friend across the river my hands are cold and bare dear friend across the river i'll take what you can spare i ask of you a penny my fortune it will be i ask you without envy we raise no mighty towers our homes are built of stone so come across the river and find the world below which it's the it's the summary of everything that happens in this what caused everything to happen in this was the disparity of living in in both of these areas that's where everything comes down to piled over skyrockets the undercity falls apart every time but there's all people down there and then they start to uh feel certain ways about certain things so i mean we we we were far into the story to begin on the repercussions of a war that happened you know but then we're just talking about what are the results of that it's just never fucking ends and with the end of this season it's like yeah that's that ain't stopping yeah no resolution this time i think things are only gonna get worse for a little while now yep because there's a lot of bad in the future like i think jinx still has a way to fall there's warwick who's that's not a pleasant story um i guess spoiler warning maybe but who knows a lot of vise friends or old friends may very well end up turning on her because of where she ends up yeah which is a really interesting choice now uh given all the history that we've got and i was like to re-mention just uh there are a lot more themes you can pull out of this thing i just think that's the main one they're getting for what we like to talk about what this show is trying to say about fathers um which yeah there's definitely plenty to draw out there i think progress is another fairly easy one that's tied in with the the irreversible of violence whether or not uh violence is the price of progress and whatnot yeah just all the themes about science and scientific progress uh progress in general i guess yeah yeah to tie back further rather than violence being the price of progress being the price of progress change um so is there even reason to but i kind of wanted because we always do but what would be the number you'd give the show if you were forced to a gunpoint eight nine point five uh i think i'm sitting like an eight point five i think that's where i was gonna say eight eight point five i'm not sure yeah yeah yeah yeah i want to say nine based on my enjoyment yeah uh it may have been obvious to an eye maybe from the get go but um it's easily one of my favorite shows at this point i was very impressed yeah i want more very god yeah uh for what you wish for no that's a fine wish i want more of this i don't want more of whatever they might end up giving us bad which could be bad but uh yeah you know i think there's course for optimism though i think so yeah standard pessimism they're getting more than a year to work on the next the next season won't come out until 2023 well i think all we've been told is not 2022 so i guess yeah 2023 the earliest that's fine take your time it seems like they already have an idea for the season two that that was like definitely something they were aware of as an option when they're making this show uh and they might well have already started thinking about what they want to do um and i think that there was enough uh instances of like man you you know what you're doing when it comes to writing characters that uh i think there's yeah i i it would it would be baffling if it was considerably worse if we've got the same people behind it yeah imagine that article just fucking arcane writers replaced all of my disney if like riot like removed and replaced the entire writing thing i'd be like i almost don't want to watch season two now that's like i know there's a big naughty you're not allowed to do that uh your your vlc is running better okay uh well who's everybody's favorite character yeah let's should we should we do the quick version first then we can talk about it just go left to right oh yeah okay yeah there you are i didn't hear what you actually agreed on i had left right something else to know okay so if it's me jinx silco jinx silco silco oh you broke yeah silco you broke and from what i've seen the two most popular picks a favorite character is silco and jinx yeah that makes sense that makes a lot of sense i do have sort of a caveat though like silco is like the character i enjoy most on like a intellectual level i guess i want kind of a less wanky word for it but that is the the level right whereas emotional investment i'm more interested in vye so um so i i think that my favorite is not who's who's who's everybody's second favorite character i'll go first this time my second favorite character is victor i think second favorite is violet all right jinx said by right right yeah well i was like that they're both my favorites on different levels um silco and vye well wait are we are we discounting silco and vye or or is it just your whatever your second i'm just asking who's people's second favorite is right yeah well so my second would be silco then victor oh fine i guess i wasn't allowed i looked up on my screen for some reason that's it's fine it's okay i'm not even here it was victor right dive who knows who knows it was victor yes it was victor yeah and yeah silco for me who is everybody's third favorite character we go right to left to get i've actually yeah right to left ah this is difficult uh victor jace yeah mine's victor heyland i'm sad that i've not had any appreciation for it yet third favorite is jace my third favorite would be jinx and i assume we don't need to go further than that no that's that's about good enough who of the main characters like main including i guess secondary characters as well would be the lowest on your list i say the lowest because worst feels like a bad way to describe it i don't think you can say there's a bad main character i guess that's what i i mean does echo count yeah echo counts but i i totally disagree with that yeah for what little time i don't know who to pick because well honestly honestly it's just because like yeah he gets the least time i know the least about him i feel based on the amount of time i have to know him so i guess he's my lowest pick i still hate you if it weren't him if it weren't him it would be jace that's that's fine i guess well what what's the acceptable answer right what i'm gonna i'm gonna say they're all so good i think the uh the most acceptable answer will be my answer which is marcus i think that's probably no actually i think i changed my mind on marcus over time i think uh i think i have a lot more appreciation for him now for me it is very but grudgingly i'm a dinger how was that how was that more accepted how is that i don't agree because i like echo in the game so you know i really like the character and they did him a lot of justice in the show i think i would go with mel personally see i think i uh i'm not sure like i i don't think i could go with her right now i'm like yeah but it's my opinion not yours so fuck off i'm just saying i'm just thinking i'm thinking i actually don't know now i don't know either because i asked the question and i don't know uh like choosing between the lot of invention i'm just like but i like them all like yeah i like them all too i was like what about sin just like this is awesome what do you mean i fuck a big sin is awesome it's to cinch even like is he because we said main right i'm like i'm uh what qualifies there so cinched counts because he's champion i guess so little screen no no no actually no sorry sorry jay i'm gonna have to because cinched is one of the most important characters in the show i was about to say is emperor palpatine not main because he's not on screen very much yeah like i suppose a lot of what happens in this show is because of cinched he invented shimmer he invented shimmer he saved jinx and made her and that was like definitely bleeding into like the ending there um there's a lot of victor yeah uh which then results in the change which then is gonna result in decisions made by him and jace probably yeah like cinched is incredibly important like he's plot important but i'm not sure no i i think i think i'm not sure how it's being plot significant counts for i would say that it's pretty important when we think about who our important characters are how dare you because like um palpatine is i mean he's significant to the universe right well but i feel that the reason that we qualify him as a main is because he's so thoroughly characterised in the few scenes that he has in uh yeah kind of like kind of like uh cinched i just i really like cinched that's all that's um well i want to um i kind of want to a poll where we uh where we rank all the characters from best to worst um we can do that with straw because of the audience i'm curious jay because you said katlin was your third favourite why yeah that's an unconventional choice um i i found her very compelling right from uh episode four um i found her like just journey to be interesting um right from well because i i found her to be like the more interesting hero architect right of um the more i talk i talked to you about this way more coherently when we actually first watched that episode do you remember what i said too bad so sad do you remember what i said no i just i'm looking for those words again uh well jay finds that hot that's not all of it that's not all of it i suppose um something that factors into my choices is like layers and i feel like all of the characters in the show are hot i think even cinched even climating it um i think we're what's informing my choices is layers i think i think katlin is pretty straightforward not that that's a problem but i don't know that i would consider it as difficult to nail that as a character like her as a character as opposed to say like jinx jinx is really difficult to write well because there's so many variables that you have to account for um it's kind of the same with jace as well i think uh oh you're right what's wrong i thought i thought everybody was silent like wait a minute am i like and anything to say like i guess um can you repeat what i should be okay so what i was gonna say was that the reason why i like i i think when i was saying like jinx is third it's like i think i do oscillate with her like between like first second and third like uh but but ultimately what all three of those characters have that i really like is they're incredibly layered um whereas i think katlin she's kind of in the same category as jace it's like you've executed on this character pretty well um but she's pretty straightforward um yeah it's not super complicated uh which isn't a problem um i just think i i find it really impressive to create a character like silco more so than i think it is to create someone like katlin yeah because katlin's kind of a character that we've seen many times over we've seen a lot of katlin that's what we say right um sorry go on just wait just clarify keep going but just is that everybody have i got that list right is there anybody else oh all right is this a list of every character in the one that that was a question is the way calling me oh okay um uh where is uh where's uh wait is vander on there oh yeah he is yeah um i feel like someone's missing yeah where's katelyn katelyn yeah is that it um i'm pretty sure there's someone else that i feel like is not on that i can't see jace okay where's jericho where's yeah yeah where's jericho let's see that boy hey can i take back my first answer where is the first fish man oh yeah that's jericho yeah yeah wait is this is this um is this a is this like a poll where people can rank them in their own order or is it gonna be their favorite no vote for the least good character were you gonna do a a best one as well well we already know what our votes are in terms of best right true what i think is actually gonna be what's what are you saying that oh have you noticed have you noticed what i've done for how long hasn't been like that for about half the stream i've had to be a bit most people wouldn't have seen that in fact because i've had to click into the discord to make it happen jay speak for a while i'm not sure hello um this is what happens when i talk now i set this up i thought you know funny if i just set this up halfway through the stream so i did oh boy well all right i think the poll's ready then uh you just get this going here because we need to we need a fucking answer on this jesus uh okay how do i do this share need more i wait to forget that i have this on and then join like a serious discord call that i actually need to be taken seriously yeah you're on like a work meeting with some kind of multinational network and you got to come follow up does this does this link quick let's hurry the least good character the least good character that's an interesting one least good is is a different question to least favorite okay hey the link the link works by the way excellent all right here it comes people in chat here i go oh boy get ready to click because if you don't click it you won't be able to share your opinion that's what's most wouldn't want that would you feel like i feel like jinx might wipe up because of her like harley quinnis i feel like that's probably pissed a few people off jinx is like the most popular pick for like that but i feel like i feel like she also might be one of the most popular picks for the worst i feel like she might be polarizing yeah maybe i feel like she might have a popular i feel like she might have a more popular hate club than any of the other characters do i don't think so oh my god i'm so sorry about the current results the uh uh oh what are we looking at this oh no hey kaitlyn there though kaitlyn's what the hell is kaitlyn doing that she's uh what i can't believe how many people have voted for jericho though yeah what hey moron this was for the least favorite character i was about to ask the people who read the thing i think jericho is the best character i've ever been offended i think everyone is sorry last train right everyone thinks he's best characters and they didn't read the title yeah i i actually do wonder how much no title reading has got on here jericho stop it yeah victor is the other way maybe that everyone thought it was vote for fucking i don't know why i don't know how to make sense of this anymore yeah i can't interpret this day i don't know why is jericho in second place i already told you what this poll is seriously as an answer like maybe yeah how did jericho win do we just have to like remove him and just look at the results as a result i think we have to remove him yeah i just well i don't mean like actually make a new straw but we just have to assume ignore all of his vote well that's not really how you do data is it who would vote for who would they vote for if not jericho it's all the people vote for Jeremy screw this up it was a joke yeah i like the idea they're like i was just following the rules what never trust never trust stream chat to do no joke you know it was a bad idea yeah i'm just shocked because they're surely they're going with surely if they're playing along with the joke it would yeah it would be to not be zero votes yeah they're just very simple people you see jericho you click jericho disgusting that's what i have to say about that vander is the least unpopular least hated character i think it's really hard to hate vander yes he's really cool he's a pretty wonderful lad i'm actually rewriting this thing by the way yes because we have to we these are not clean results the oh they have been they have been jinxed you can't have this oh like jinxed from arcane who's that no um uh just a character something like a nude man just gonna say it well is it think about it and that one i'm gonna have to unpin my previous one now look at what you've made me do chat look at it yeah good good job god dangus is i have not included the legend this time around oh so yeah thanks for that clearly you couldn't be trusted yeah so you got to do it again reality is often disappointing wait remove the pin there we go all right everybody look we've got a new new new guy worst character worst no not worst favorite he's good oh there's a graph echo is wiping up well now that we've removed the cringe it would seem we know who all the votes to jericho would have gone we have got that answer wow yeah i guess sorry gee oh man yeah oh katlin katlin coming in they're hot yeah wow looks like we have some bigots on our hands wait a minute yeah why is vander and victor just like us and bless him exactly i think it's i think it's hard to hate victor or vander i think it was hard to hate you know heimer digger but it was hard to hide still go to one person because like it's like i do i genuinely wonder oh if you've you forgot mark one or you didn't forget marker system there is um i wonder i how many people who are voting are like legit yeah fuck this character and how many of them like oh if i have to choose one i think it's more than that that the jericho results okay i i refuse to be that charitable yeah i believe uh believe echo has been booted wow bad opinions even though he has the coolest scene in the show oh that's that's a good thing you know what was everybody's favorite scene from uh i was gonna say left to right right left i don't even know anymore what should we do from the center oh from the center is the six of us yes and that's why i found that funny to say oh i get the joke now um but the echo versus powder scene about it gross jinx yeah oh it's both well you know because wow yeah actually i might might and the bit of it really the really hits home for me is the echo versus powder part like that's you know like that's that's what it comes to mind as it's primarily that for me uh well so we'll do it jay me dash metal frame you that's the best way to do it i guess i don't even know um it's definitely not the best way but it's the way we're gonna do it yes uh i think my favorite scene is the finale literally the last scene in in whole just because i think all about what all of it means and why it's happening and then everyone involved and the song the song is fucking fantabulous though uh the echo jinx fight is it scores incredibly high uh absolutely no doubt das is tuned oh i would i would have to give it to um when vi confronts powder and calls are jinx and everything it's basically the end of episode three i've got to give it to that i love that that's an even explanation it's just like yep yep yeah to the end of episode three that's that's all you need to know uh metal oh it's me i mean i've already said it earlier but i my favorite scene is the one where jace and silica are talking and coming to quote unquote terms why do you feel that it means more to you than the other scenes that have been mentioned it's just uh just the thing where they give the antagonist the choice that normally the protagonist gets i really like that uh then jace just being super confident after everything he's went through and realized that the best the best choice is to do the whole peace thing and give him what he wants for pretty much very little and basically being a chad going into space like oh yeah if we do this you all will be annihilated and it's going to be bad for you somebody said oh and the one where silica kisses jinx was very moving wow uh i guess i guess i'm done okay were you not i'm i'm fucking done now well see the problem is most people don't say i am done now at the end of this sentence is i usually just have to go i know no but it was a meme from waiting for the meme to go through um well carry on i think the meme the meme is dead now yeah yeah yeah no i just uh and silica coming in like super confident and i get go because like oh look at this week piece of shit he just attacked me and now he's coming around he must be haven't doubted he's gonna win this but then he's basically just like no i want jinx and so it was like uh no yeah that's the end there you go uh huh uh huh well that's four different scenes anybody who chooses a scene that's been mentioned for their favorite that would be cringe uh for you next yes super cringe yeah my favorite is uh echo versus jinx on that cringe fine i own that scene i made it myself yep you can't just put your little chair in the corner and say it's yours uh dear jesus man um i don't remember him either the finale either the finale the finale of episode three or echo versus jinx and i can't decide your triple cringe yeah that's hyper cringe you gotta pick there's a gun to your head right now yeah i was gonna go outside don't worry i don't have a hat probably the finale you do you have a big mask against the hat right that's not a hat i'd have to ask brags you can have a hat it's very picky about those sorts of things but um wait which sorry which what did you say uh the finale episode nine probably that uh what reason does it outplay the others the character worked with jinx and the final decision she makes i think i think just working with the character in that scene is really really interesting yeah um and just as the culmination of her arc like a round of applause from me and the fact that they chose to fucking end off on a cliffhanger which is you know kind of bold yeah and that's fine with me as well because this we got such a big meal uh the idea that yeah but you didn't know what happened to people in that room it's like i'll find out i've still gotten plenty to to eat and it's just certainly a season's worth i guess uh i'll be eating stories more so echo i'm afraid the oh has lost that's definitive right there that's proof actually that he is the queen on the second hold on no i need someone's voted for victor and vanda now those are god well three people have voted for victor and vanda the horror yeah horror how often do you see good opinions come out of chat that's all chat get him you gotta take that well i mean victor and vanda are the least voted for options so i'd say that's a good opinion coming out chat and then silco is next another very good opinion coming from chat but then yin jinx and katey is a great opinion coming from chat who well yeah that's true no fuck that just remind jave this favorite character had to go for number two for least favorites like yeah chat a ridiculous it must be injected into space so i'm like saying above above her is hymerdinger it was like man imagine not liking hymerdinger who doesn't like hymerdinger point to the person exactly why nobody's saying that they don't like echo if they're all just saying that that he's oh i'm sure that someone is like echo yeah i want to see interest is anyone here who voted genuinely dislike the character you voted for and if so who did you vote for well that kyle said me i don't like hymer how can you not like hymer hymer could have been better used though i would need to see you like you like him you're more of a yes you just like mal i cheated when i thought echo died oh my god what's so many different opinions in chat right now they're everywhere i'm met on echo well you can't even spell his fucking name wow yeah i learned how you spell it correctly yesterday and i'm gonna act really hymer about it wait why did you think it was spelled like the way that it's normally spelled and then you found out i'm not gonna lie yes i did well look that's okay we all make mistakes i don't what matters is that we don't repeat them right that sounds like a that sounds like a silco line was a silco line that's probably what it sounds like it then i'm a good judge of these things you have a silco line detector and my silco died patty jenkins in the form of a pop figure huh wow why i can't wait to pick that up so i'm just gonna send you that if you have a pure book someone would send you also that's number two apparently so there's only one more that was chosen like i guess first as a choice well you know how many of these do you think they're actually manufacturing i i have no idea seven patty pops i didn't know that this was a thing vinyl funko pops for directors specifically there's a ryan johnson there's a pike jenkins surely there's like a jj abrams and a ryan johnson i'm interested to do is a poll of who the best one is do you think we should allow multiple answers or just one no one one let's go with one i'm a multiple it seems fair oh you can mean you can do one of each no one make them commit one one make them commit this seems to be more passionate on the one side so i'm gonna go with them yeah fine they i'm sorry jade they just wanted it more i feel like this is not going to be a contest honestly i shout it louder okay that makes me right uh who do you think is going to win then because i'm not sure i'm going to say silco silco is going to win he's he's going to win silco's hands down he's going to win yeah especially because we've spent what three consecutive nine hour podcasts giving him a time bath more out of i don't know what i'm like every time every time we showed up in a scene we