Alrighty, it is 5 o'clock. Welcome to the first. Middle sex select board of 2024, right? Tuesday, January 6th. And yes, and we have Peter, our board member, our fellow board member visiting on zoom, which is why I am cherry. And we have some guests here. We have George, we have Jeff, we have Steve, Shelley, and Samantha. And what is your name? Zara. Okay. Thanks from the budget. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm from the budget committee and Eric from the town. Um, no. Yes. So, how come it says Tuesday on the 6th? I don't know, it's today, not the 6th. Okay, it's the 9th. Sorry, sir. Thank you for recognizing that that day. I wouldn't have known, but let's see reviewing. Okay. Sorry, approving the minutes of December 19th. 2023, regular select board meeting. Um, we had. Peter, me, Randy, and Vic at that meeting. Is there a motion? I move that we accept the minutes of the December 19th, 2023 meeting. Okay. In a second. Okay, ready. Sorry. Sorry. Okay, all those in favor of approving the minutes from December 19th, say, I, I, and then we're going to review amend and approve the agenda for January, January 9th. 2024 action likely. So, what are the amendments, Sarah? Well, I get the agenda, but I didn't amend the dates about this. Okay. I don't have on the agenda of the application.  That's all I have. Okay. Alrighty, is there a motion? Thank you for the motion that we. The agenda for January 9th. Look at I. Nothing. Okay. Any seconds for that? Randy seconds it. All right. All those in favor of today's agenda, say, I, I, ready. Okay, so we are right on schedule for formally accepting Bridget Browning's resignation due to medical issues and appointee replacement until March. 2024 town meeting and we received a couple of. Interests letters of interest, one from Jeff Price and one from George law and effort. And so, I would offer you the opportunity now to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself why you're interested in running. And also, if you can give us an idea whether or not you would be interested in. Getting signatures, which would need to be done. Like, a, Sarah 15, I think you need. 29, 29 signatures 14, 15 signatures by January 29th of middle sex residents to be quit on the ballot for voting. So, I guess, Jeff, why don't we hear from you? I think we received your letter first. So thank you for your interest. So, yeah, Jeff Price, I lived in middle sex nearly my whole way grew up here, moved away a little bit for college departments with my now wife out of town. Built a house in here in 2002, mainly for the school system. And we've been here since I've sat on the sidelines and not really know much about what goes on at this level and. I guess, to be completely honest, complained about things I didn't understand and wasn't super happy with so I figured now is the time to put my time where my complaining lesson. And see if I could step in and help. I mean, you know, experience wise, almost 30 years in the insurance industry. I oversee their operations as well. So, lots of engineering, construction, disaster recovery, finance, so a couple skills I put to work here. Great. And thinking about the future is this something because it is coming up quite quickly that you would consider running. And I was hoping to at least get a meeting of an adult to see what involved time wise process wise, but yeah. So I would invite you to see for the meeting. So you can just kind of get a feel for how it rolls. Anything else that you want to add. Okay, questions from board members. Have you served on boards in the past. Never work like this. Probably work related to boards but in the community you haven't served in a capacity. Any other questions Peter you have any questions. No, thank you. Thank you for your interest, Jeff. Mr long necker, you are up next. I'm George. I've been on the budget committee twice since certain. Since 2013 we moved my wife Cynthia and I'm here in 20 of them. Before that I lived on and my shield that is on the select board there for seven years. Also on the conservation commission here. And, and the rights go right to strip forward. So I could, I could come in in the interim and know what's going on with the budget. So the financial emergencies contingencies were expected. I worked out for a lot of time for 37 years. Also at Norwich. So I'm already on the ballot for the budget committee. Okay, so you're not planning to run for the select board in March. Are there questions for George. Yes, I don't have a question, but I also brought my paperwork to run. Okay. All right, we can. Well, well, I was going to ask if there was anyone else here that was interested. So, thank you. Any other questions for George. Thanks. Yeah, Sarah, did you see her interested in the interim job or are you interested in running where you sit in one or the other. What are your expectations for that? I would. I'm interested to run. So being on the Marge fell. Okay, so not even three years interim. Correct. Okay. Great. Any questions for George. Okay. Is there anyone in the audience who is interested in being appointed? So this is how it kind of works when someone is leaves the select board in the middle of a term. The select board appoints a person to serve until the next election. This happened to happen very unfortunately. And under no control from Bridget. It happened very close to the next election, which means that we still want to appoint someone that would then have to run again. And so, I'm sorry, if they wanted to stay on, if they want to stay on, they'd have to run again because their term technically ends at the end of February. The appointed term. Yeah, the appointed term. Right. And can we clarify what the duration of Bridget's term would look like? Is it two years left of a three year term? Okay. So, so that if you were running, you would be committing to at least another two years. And then if you liked it, your next term would be three years. Unless you've switched with another board member, sometimes that happens to people switch their, their terms. So, I guess my question to you is, are you interested Zara in being potentially appointed now? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what interests you in this position? Sure. My name is Zara Vincent. I've lived in this town for 20 years. I'm a fifth generation for monitor. I didn't move far from where I grew up, which was watery. And I've just recently gotten more involved in the local politics. I'm certainly a political junkie, federally, and just kind of learning the more gritty. I'm currently on the budget committee. And would like to serve town in any way that I can. What is your, what do you do for your professional work? Well, my profession has always been in television and radio sales. So electronic and digital media. They met me when I worked for the point. And are you also running for the budget? We are also running for the budget for two year term. Okay, are there any questions for Zara Vincent? Peter, any questions? No, I do have a question for George though. I could not quite understand whether he said he was interested in running for the position. No, I said I'd do it until town meeting days. Okay. Thank you, George. Zara's been great on the budget. And I think we both could count on it. She's willing to step in. Take this. I think that'd be great. Is there anyone else in the audience who is interested in being appointed? No hearing none. Okay, so at this time. We actually talk about it as a board we do this is not in executive sessions so everybody gets to hear the conversations. And I believe we have three highly qualified candidates. I personally would probably since George isn't interested in running again that we would be considering the two candidates who possibly are interested. Zara has indicated that she has his plans to be put on the ballot for March. Jeff has indicated that he's he's open to that and he'd like to kind of see how the board works and whether or not it's something that he'd be interested in doing. So is there discussion that people want to have about the pros and cons of either.  Right.  What I think is a good thing about our board is that we tend to be fairly diverse in terms of our work backgrounds and what we contribute to the conversation. So it's handy to have that, you know, just people who have come with different expertise to be able to weigh in on things like, you know, Jeff may be able to weigh in on things around the town hall. For example, if we're going to be doing a town hall renovation. And, you know, Zara is on the budget committee already and understands a lot of what's going on. So she brings that strength. So I would say between the two of you. We have some, you know, extremely qualified candidates that would be, I think, great for the board. So I would say, you know, I'd like to hear from everybody else to see what they have to say. Yeah, I agree. Go ahead. I was just going to make the general comment that it's, it's very nice that we have three people interested in the short term and two people interested in the short term and the long term. It isn't always that we have choices to make when it comes to appointing people so I really appreciate the interest of all, all three folks, very much so.  We still have the opportunity to, yes, exactly. And the other thing is that that is good as great as the interest of younger people. Yes. That is a big, big plus. I mean, Peter and I are the old guys here now. So. Getting older every benefit. That's right.  It's great to have people with with the diverse experience and being younger and having, you know, come from a different generation. Yeah, that's, that's very good. I like that. Thank you. Yeah, I would say the same thing. I've said for a long time this town needs more active participants.  Not understanding always what happens here at this level and complaining about some of the things you see from the outside. I would also say you get a different perspective when you're sitting here, having some of these conversations and, and looking at the information as, as this board looks at it so thank you both for coming out. George, you as well. I, like Liz. So, I think my interest is supporting those that are interested more long term. So, you know, recognizing that, that you have plenty of qualifications and credentials I think for me. I think I would, I would be more interested in looking at trying to get somebody in here and give them a taste of what's to come to make sure that for the long term they're making the right decision and signing up because it does take some effort.  At the end of the day, for me, just seeing people that are that are interested in being active is extremely, extremely important. And I applaud both of you for all three of you like this point but yeah, basically what I'd like to say. And I'll just mention in terms of like the commitment. Randy was touching on this a little bit. The, you know, we are scheduled for usually two meetings a month. Sometimes it's especially during COVID and everything it became almost weekly that we were meeting. So there is a, there is a level of commitment to this. You get a huge amount of support from Sarah and Dorinda on an administrative level which kind of takes some of the burden away from board members that other towns don't necessarily have that that privilege of having to really competent people to kind of do things like pull these paperwork together and make sure, you know, help with the agenda and things like that. So, you know, I think that's a that's a lesson in terms of there's not a lot of side things going on like side subcommittees I am working on, for example, the town hall. There's some kind of renovation and some funding that's available for work on the town hall. So that's sort of a side thing that I'm doing, which is actually why I'm running again so that I can kind of finish that and then hopefully not run again after that but make it a dozen years instead of then. So, and, you know, it's also good to have people in person now as opposed to zoom we really do prefer that, although you can zoom in which is nice. And every town meeting, the date the meeting after town meeting is when we sort of set who's going to chair who's our timing of the meetings but right now they've been at five for history as long as I've been here they've always been at five. So you want to make sure that you're all like this is, you're able to do that to be available at that time for for for work days. So, you know, I don't. I think at this point, unless you guys do you have any more questions either one of you. Yes, Sarah. I do have one thing to say and that is that I am traveling months of February March of this year. So I want to zoom in, I would not be available. Okay, but you could zoom in. Okay. Yeah. Jeff, do you have any more questions or comments. Okay, great. So I guess at this point I'm looking for a nomination. Yes, Victor. I would nominate Jeff. Okay, is there a second for nominating Jeff. Okay, Peter. Peter seconded. Okay, are there any other nominations. Okay, I will nominate Zara. Vincent. Are there any seconds. Randy seconded it. Okay. So we have two nominations. This is where it comes down.  This is, you know, one of these things where if we had two positions, it would be filled. Right. And so, but we have to choose one person. So, yes. This is what we're discussing. Yeah, yeah. Either one, whoever, whoever isn't chosen still has the opportunity. Yes, again, to come to the last two meetings would be welcome. And, and that is true because I think what would end up happening is if whoever we nominated, and they decided to run and put their name on the ballot. And the other person also put their name on the ballot. There would be a race against two people. And it would probably be if you were, if it worked out that way would be the two of you. Let there was another candidate. Theoretically, theoretically, they could enter a race for any of the open slots. Yes, for any of the other slots. Exactly. Yeah. My slot is open right now. So you can run against me. You can also run against Peter hood.  I think you're three. And I'm a two year term. So that being said, we have two nominations. All those in favor of Jeff price, say I are. All those in favor of. So the three eyes. All those in favor of Zara say I. And you can theoretically vote more than one. I don't think so. Okay. Okay. And the eyes for Jeff price. Have it. Welcome Jeff price. Till March. Is that right? Sarah March 4. 7pm March 5. 7pm March 5. And I would suggest that regardless of whether or not you think you're going to run again, Jeff, that tonight you have a body of many people from middle sex that you should Sarah could print out a signature form for you to start getting signatures. Okay. And thank you, Sarah. Thank you. Okay. Just to be, just to be clear. Jeff's turn should be effective immediately so he can participate in the meeting. Yeah, I think so, Jeff, you're going to participate starting right now. You're going to pull up a chair. And Sarah, I welcome you to stay. Believe me, there's no hard feelings. Okay. I just want everybody to know if you have tissue circulating there has been a change of law you can sign petitions for more than one person for the same office. Oh, perfect. Okay, what? I didn't realize that we're running. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah, it used to be before the change of law, you can only sign for their jackets for the two and a three year term. You only sign one. You have a three year term, a two year term and a two out of three years. Okay, so now you can sign. Thank you. Welcome. Yes, welcome. And Sarah, do you have some paperwork for him? Like a packet. I think I, I think I pulled it on there. George has got his hand on George's door. Budget. Okay, so I have mine on the computer. Everybody else is all set. All righty. Well, thank you everybody. I thought that went well. Moving on to our next agenda, the fiscal year 2025 budget workshop. Reviewing the drafted fiscal year 2025 budget budget committee likely to attend. We have Mark and Zara and Randy and I thought. Oh, George, George. Here. I think that motion should have had you pass a motion to formally. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Could we, could there be a motion to formally accept Bridget Browning's resignation? Go ahead. I move that we accept Bridget formally accept Bridget Brown. And big seconds at all those in favor say aye. Thank you. Okay. So, and, and part of this is a discussion to how we're going to allocate the child care tax and there's action possible. So who would like to take the lead on this. I can explain what it is. It's something that will begin on July 1. And it's, it's part of your payroll taxes. And that we have to against every dollar we have to tax point door for percent. But the select board needs to decide there's two ways to do it. Either the town can absorb the entire point 44% or they can allocate point 33% to the, to the town and point 11% to the employee. There's no other. There's no other choice. So it's not. So it's not. So, do we have an idea of how much that's good at $44 on every $10,000 of salary. $44. $1300,000 and salary for those affected. Because it's, it's not for anybody that's appointed or elected. It's just for regular staff. So I put it into our budget numbers at the full point for 4% and it comes in just under $2,000 for the budgeted hours. Okay. So our suggestion is either we pay all that 2000 or we put the point 1, 1. I think it's great. That and the, in general, most of the town's because point 1, 1 is such a small percentage when you take it out.  No, because it all, it's all computerized. It's just like. But it's. Yeah. You're talking really a small amount. Yeah. Okay. So. Peter. It is true that we can reconsider this every year how we do this, right? Yeah. So if we decide, if we decide today that we're going to pay the whole amount, my only concern is there's been a lot of chatter that this number is going to radically ramp up. And, you know, at some point in time, it might make sense to have the employees contribute. I agree right now for $2,000.  Randy, Vic, or Jeff, any thoughts? I'm supportive of that. Okay. I agree. Okay. I'm not really. I agree. It's like 2000. But I think. But this is kind of forced on the whole state. And maybe it's at some point, like Peter said, but at some point, I think the more people we get involved in it. The more, if there's going to be a pushback, the more pushback there would be. I mean, I think if, if we pay it. It's just under the table. And nobody, nobody's really going to say too much. No. You mean employees. The employees or the, you know, which are the taxpayers. So the only other, the only other thing I'd say about this and, you know, I'm just thinking about it this afternoon is. If there was a way, and believe me, I understand it doesn't make sense. You never collect enough money and it wouldn't work. But if the people who were. You know, It's one thing. But just because somebody happens to be an employee in the town doesn't necessarily mean that they have kids or that they have kids that need childcare. So. To me. And I understand what you're saying, what you're saying, Victor, but you know, it's like we all pay so much. Whether or not we have, we have, we have kids in the school. I think it's a, I think it's a community obligation and hopefully our legislature hard to believe though, my team will. Control this expense and it won't grow too much, but we have the option to review it as long as we have the option to review it every year. I'm supportive of having the time to it. This year. Next year. Does the big budget committee have any comments or thoughts? Okay. How much does this. Change or increase. It's already in the last budget report. Yeah. All right. So before we, we would have to make a motion on that, sir. Do we want to vote on that right now or talk about the budget first before we do that? Since that was really the first line. Okay. Well, we don't forget. Okay. Who has a motion to. Okay. Peter's making the motion that the town will pay for the entire 0.44% of the child care tax. Is there a sign? Yeah. I made it in the records. How you're okay. Do we want to vote on that right now or talk about the budget first before we do that. Since that was really the first line. Okay. Okay. Let's do it now. So we don't forget. Okay. Who has a motion to. Peter. Okay. Peter's making the motion that the town will pay for the entire 0.44% of the child care tax. Okay. Is there a second? Okay. Vic seconds. All right. All those in favor of the town paying for that. That motion. The eyes have it, Sarah. All right. So now we're going to look at the drafted fiscal year 2025 budget. And what would the budget committee like to talk about? Mark, you want to go ahead. I'm hoping folks got the copy of our recommendation. We sent out last Friday. In a meeting last Thursday sharpened our pencils. And came up with some recommendations for cuts. That would get the fiscal year 25 budget. Before special articles under 10%. So I'm hoping if folks have access to that. They can take a look at it and provide some feedback. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's what you said. Mark, would you highlight where this, you don't have anything. So there was a word. I thought. Is it here in our. Yeah. Okay. It's not out there in these packets, but. Okay. Yeah, so basically what this is and Sarah is printing this off now for everybody, but. Mark, if you don't mind if I just run through this. Go ahead. Let's just wait. Okay. I felt. Well, all right. Good for you. So maybe we should rename that. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. So the recommendation from the budget committee. And I'm just going to run through these fairly quickly and get a little explanation as to what the rationale behind it. Was. Blind 56 computer maintenance. Currently a $40,000 blind item, which included email conversion and annual support fees for our existing contract with RV technologies. And the recommendation was to reduce this 40,000 by $10,000. We received an estimate for $17,000 to do an email conversion for 14 licenses. And the thought of the budget committee based on feedback that we've had from boats that we've talked to. Is that the cost of this, there are the estimate of that $17,000 for those for that email conversion. Was astronomical and everybody that we've talked to felt like with with some shopping, we should be able to pair that down. Consulting fees line 57. This was to for a hundred hours of. Consulting time or support time for the listers. And the reduction amount was $4,500. Moving that from a hundred hours to 70 hours. The line item 97. Yeah, sorry. I don't have anyone else right there, but. Line item 97 fire department stipends. We've looked at historical cost structure there. Of historical costs and then understanding that we've had a shift in cost structure. We've recommended I've talked with Eric about how busy last year was knowing that this is a demand service and you can never actually know what. That service is going to be required to supply. But we've been at the 11 to $12,000 mark. For the past couple of years after the cost structure came with an average activity based on the feedback from Eric. So we felt like moving that from $18,000. Down $3,000 to 15 would be appropriate. And then we've looked at the line item 122. Road gravel. The thought here was that, you know, we've done a tremendous anonymous with the storm recovery. Understanding that there's still other work to do that hasn't been impacted by the storm. But we felt like this was an area that we could cut. We felt like this was a tremendous impact on the state. And then the next generation was moving $10,000 out of that $50,000 making that $40,000. Ulverts line item 186. Again. The rationale was and looks like Mark did a little bit of. Homework here. through the flooding and we assume that the risk of reduced spending next year could be tolerated. We talked about the stockpile of culverts that we had at one point and what the budget carried through those years allowed us to create that stockpile. So this is an area that we felt like could be reduced by $5,000. And then line item 263. This has been a Excuse me, Randy. So what does what does that leave the culvert after 5,000 out? I think it brings it down to 9,000. I think it was 14,000 feeter. Thank you. Yeah, it was 14. Thank you, Randy. So 263. And this paper says Town Hall Building Fund, but it really should be Town Building Fund. So there was a removal of $10,000 here. We had originally included $30,000 additional over and above what historically has been allocated to this line item for elevator repairs. And basically it would suspend the annual allocation of the $10,000 to the building fund with the expectation that there would be some work coming up with the Town Hall, a study that's going on and whatnot, but still carry the money for elevator repairs if that renovation was not to move forward or we needed to do something before we got there. Mark, you want to chime in if I missed anything? Well, you pretty much covered it, Randy. The only question I have is just to get some clarity on the elevator repairs. I know in the capital inventory when it was created in the summer of 2021, the elevator repair of $30,000 was slaughtered for fiscal year 2025 and it said it was based on an estimate I think that the town clerk got. And I'm unsure what happens to the elevator as part of the renovation proposal. Is it a repair of that elevator or is it a replacement of that elevator? Does anybody know? So I heard Peter say it's a replacement. No, it's a replacement in relocation because right now you can't even wheelchair. Okay. So a couple other questions based on that then. Are we at any risk of legal issues with the state of the elevator? I'm just unsure. Is it operational today? Barely operational. Okay. And it's not ADA compliant. That's what I'm hearing. That's probably not. Well, we'll start making these blanket statements. This was surveyed by an ADA adjacent nonprofit which is hired by the state to go through and make recommendations about lifts. And we are like a lot of town halls. I'll make this brief. A lot of communities got grants in 2000 to build lifts. We're all in the same boat. We're all kind of gut lifts at this stage in the game. So while it found the lift is insufficient, it did not find it was defunct, but it does definitely raise issues. I can send you that report. Okay. That would be great. So the other point is when it was put on the list in 2021. I mean, I'm assuming everybody knew the elevator had issues back then. Has it gotten worse in the two or three years since? No. It's just held stable. There are some basic, basic problems that cannot be repaired by repairs because for reasons that no one in my generation of being a town clerk and understand, the well, one of the well caps is right there by the door so you can't open the door. So it's an obstruction. Okay. It's not just a gusty up the elevator. We've got major structural problems. So it doesn't sound like if a Vermont building inspector came in tomorrow that they have any concerns about shutting us down because our elevator doesn't work great. I've never heard of such a thing happening. Do we have Vermont building inspectors? I'm just throwing that out. I'm trying to understand if we have any legal exposure to an elevator that doesn't work exactly right. So, Mark, the legal exposure would be someone wants to use the elevator. They can't use it. They get upset and come after us for failing to comply with ADA. And, you know, is there some risk of that out there? Maybe, potentially.  I don't think the state of Vermont would ever tell us that we can use our town hall because we didn't have, because the elevator wasn't functioning correctly. But who knows what could happen. Bottom line is it's an issue that we have been pushing down the road for a long time. We've known it's a problem. It's been a problem for years and years and years and it always seems it always fails on town meeting day.  So it's something we need to deal with, definitely. No matter where we go ahead with the other renovation or whether we... Right. The only reason I'm asking these questions, Peter, is I'm just trying to understand the cost benefit of putting $30,000 into elevated repair when we're going to replace it. And who knows how many years? That's all. Well, there's the whole question and that enters into this whole town hall renovation issue. So, yeah. I mean, we've been putting that number in there for some years as kind of a plug number feeling that the axe was about to fall and we were going to have to do it. And we haven't had to do it, but that's why that number is in there, because we're scared someday the elevated repair people are going to come and say, we are putting, you know, like they put up a red tag on a boiler when you can no longer use it.  Well, and I can speak for the reason that I asked it to be attached to the town building fund was that if it's in there and the town voters decide to move forward with a renovation project, we can then step back and look at whether or not the investment to the elevator makes sense. But if they don't, if the town comes back and says, we're not moving forward with this renovation project, we've got to do something there. So the thought was that if we move forward with the renovation project, then if it's in the town building fund, it could essentially go towards the renovation project, which the elevator then is being replaced. We're going to have to pay for it somewhere. Okay. So was that, that's it on the, yeah. Okay. Are there any questions for Randy or other budget committees? So where does that leave our budget before special articles after those cuts? 9.2%. I'm sorry, Mark. 9.2%. And what's the amount? Oh, I haven't got that in front of me. Okay. All right. Okay. That's fine. Peter. Go ahead. 42,500. Is the difference, right? Recommended. It's a recommended cut. I think he's asking what is the total budget line item at the end. Oh, it's fine. I don't, yeah. It's whatever. Is this, oh, Randy has it. Oh, well, I did. It would be the 1,9723 minus 42. No, I didn't put any of these numbers in there. No, I said minus 42. No, 1,972, 185, 1,855,000. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. That minus 42,000. Okay. 42,500. Okay. So is this a decrease of 9.2% or an increase of 9.2% for the budget? Increase. Increase. And who was that? Who asked that question? My name's Charlie Cook. See you, okay. Thank you, Charlie. Charlie Cook. Yep. Just wanted to remind guests that when you want to talk, please address the chair. At this time, the acting chair lives here. I can say we'd like to ask a question. Okay. So you want me to just ask Liz Scharf before asking? No, you just say, can I ask a question of the chair? It's fine. Okay. It just wasn't clear when you guys were saying 9.2%. Are there any other questions? Yes, Brenda. I'd like to speak to a few of the names. Okay. And as far as cutting $10,000 from the email, I feel very strongly that my email does not work correctly, has not worked correctly for at least six months. I think that to be out shopping new IT people the day, the week we're trying to do a budget is not the time to be cutting that line. Maybe you take it out of the server, which we know we're not going to get for a while. But, and I'm not saying that this is the correct, you know, that we have to enter into the agreement with RB. But I think we should budget for this. And then if we save money at the end, so be it. But I think this is a very important item on the agenda. So I just... Can I, based on some of the conversations that we've had with my tea folks, is we could do with spending much less on any type of server product if we did have that conversion taking place. Theoretically the conversion could cost less and the server could cost less. But to your point, we could move that cut to the server line item and leave the full amount for the email conversion in there if that's what people feel more comfortable with. Because I think the savings can be realized once we make that email conversion. Regardless of who are providers. That's my understanding. We don't need as robust of a server, if you will, if we move those services. Or we go to the cloud, don't forget that one. That's what I'm talking about with the email migration and everything else too, sir. Is the server in capital budget? Is it somewhere here? We have $45,000, isn't it? $45,000. $45,000, yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Yes, that sounds good. So you're saying change that to $10,000. And leave the email conversion. Which at $40,000. Which was at $40,000. So that just to remind you, that $40,000 is not just the email conversion. That's our annual support. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's line 44. And it's $25,000. Okay, $45,000. Yeah. On what? Put in purchase. Put in purchase? Yeah, line 45. Does that work for you, Jordan? I just, I don't care where it makes cut. I just want to make sure that it's clear. Yeah. That we are on top of this mail. Yeah. I think it's very important. Okay, great. So how much are we cutting out of that? $45,000. $10,000. So make it $10,000. Yeah. And what's $20,000? The next point is the consultant fees. That was originally when it was submitted to me by the whiskers was for $200. We cut it back to 100 hours before we ever sat down and presented it to the budget. So this is their only source of calling NEMRIC and asking them for any kind of support. I don't know if Shelly, the analyst who wants to speak to it or not. But I think you, you know, I think it's $150 an hour for anything over a 10 minute conversation. So how much should we spend last year or this year? It's a new line, right? Because we were not receiving that same support. They're doing other things that we have in other line items within NEMRIC. But this is for support over and above the services that they've been providing to us, correct? Go ahead, Shelly. Well, what happened is Vermont Pi took over what we were in the contract with them and we're using their system. Well, we're still using their system to communicate with Vermont Pi because the state system took over. So now anything that we asked them for, we're going to get charged for. Where before, I think some of it was included. Okay. And we don't call them that often. So I don't see a problem. The other list are one of the 200 hours. We used to go to the district of Idaho State, which is free first. Okay. But if we do need them, we need them because it's their system. Are we keeping anything in it? Right. 70 hours moved from a hundred is what. So do you feel they can kind of do another 30 hours? I think 70 is fine. You think you're going to be fine? Okay, I just wanted to. I would also say that if you had to use more than 70, you shouldn't be shy to do it. All right. And then we just go over budget on that. Either I just break their system and then you've got to come fix it. Right. But like you said, if you're able to get the answers before calling them. Okay, that's great. Thank you, Shelley, for that information. And the only other comment which is on the road gravel that we could use our for money. I want everybody to be aware. We have used our for money for every conversation that has come up. We currently don't have a dime of our for money because we have spent it on this flood. And which is our bigger part of the conversation tonight of making sure that we don't put the town in a position where we have no cushion. And I feel every time you do a cut, that's what we're doing. Yeah. Yes, George. Do you feel that we shouldn't make this cut or shouldn't break it? No, I just feel that the reason we do where we've been able to only have to borrow 1.5 million is because we did have the fund balance. We did have the offer funds. By having that cushion, it is saving us money in the long run. One of the good things that happened this year with because we came a little bit under budget under it for ending in June, we were able to go out and buy the new rescue truck without incurring debt service. The year before or two years ago, we did the same thing. We were able to buy the pickup truck without incurring debt service. And I think we're making a big mistake. And we just made a comment that don't hesitate to go over budget. What do we do when we budget and we have no money? Well, I mean, when I mean, no, I know what you meant, but I'm just saying that as a point that if we have no money left in our funds and we don't know how we're going to get the FEMA money back, we don't know if we go out to the bond bank, which is another topic of conversation, that every bit of FEMA money that comes in has to be paid to them so it doesn't come to us. That is a question I was talking with Randy about earlier. I don't know if now's the time to talk about it, but it is related to the budget, I guess. Randy told me that the money that comes, that the bond bank has to be paid first before we pay community national. No, so what will happen is whatever we get from community, that's why they'll give us the loan to pay off community bank. But I don't think we're going to get. We're not going to get the full amount. I don't think we're going to get the full amount. So I think we're going to be left with owing community bank. I believe, and I'm not sure of this, I have to check on it, that hopefully we can pay off community bank. And then once that debt's been paid off, then we start paying off the bond bank. And my question to Randy was, which was really to you, is if the FEMA money comes in and it's enough to pay off the. Could we? Like, can we pay ourselves first? We know that we can't pay ourselves back for what we, so we borrowed our own money, basically our reserve fund and our ARPA funds to pay people, to pay workers. And then we get to pay contractors. And then we also, because we had no more money and we also had our big school debt that we had to pay, we borrowed from community national or community bank. Community bank. Community bank. We borrowed to 1.5 million. And that we had to use to continue to pay contractors, but also to pay our school loan, because we had used that money already to pay the contractors. Yes, Vic. Oh, wait. Yeah, I'm just explaining it. Did you all finish that up? Yeah. Yeah. And then I had a question. Yeah. And so my question was that if FEMA gives us a big chunk of money, let's say they give us two and a half million dollars, who has to be paid first? Randy thought it was the bond bank, even before community bank. No. So the reason that we were taking out this bond bank, the loan, is to pay off our loan at community bank. So the intent is to pay them off first, but they expect any payment on the bond bank to go back to reduce their loan. When I talked to the gentleman about it a while back, I told him that we had $2 million worth of, that we submitted to FEMA, $2 million worth of debt so far. And I said, but we only borrow $1.5 million. And he said, I said, so that's what we're going to submit. And he says, well, I don't know if you'll be able to get that because you've only incurred $1.5 million of debt. So that's what's making me worried. I said, well, if that's the case, maybe I should go out and borrow the $500, the other $500,000. Well, the thing is they're not going to give us, and they're not going to give us. We're not going to get it all. Everybody's applying. So we'll get some piece of it. Maybe we'll get half, but we haven't, how much have we actually borrowed from Community National? $1.5 million. But how much is the three million line of credit? $3 million line of credit, and we borrowed $1.5 million. Okay. So let's say we get a million. That million goes and pays Community National from the bond. The bond bank gives us a million. We pay Community National. We still have $500,000 outstanding. Then FEMA comes in and gives us, let's say they give us $1.5 million, right? They're holding back something. I don't know. They give us $1.5 million. We still owe $1 million to the bond bank, and we owe $500,000 to Community. My question is, instead of paying the bond bank because it's a low interest rate, can we pay ourselves back before we pay them so that we can get our ARPA money back? Because right now, she's right. We don't have $10,000 in ARPA money, right? Because we spent it. So can we pay ourselves back before, and then we wait for more FEMA money potentially before we pay off the bond? My understanding from him was we can't pay ourselves, but we can pay the debt we incur from Community Bank. Would the money that we paid ourselves be considered an enter fund loan within the municipality? If we put it... The reason I asked that is because when it talks about the flow of funds, I just went back to the webinar that they put up that we attended, and I pulled the slides and in here underneath the flow of funds, it talks about pay off of bank and or enter fund loans, direct expense reimbursement considered upon request. So I don't know if that money that the town used would be considered an enter fund loan because of where that lives. Certainly the fund balance would not be, I wouldn't think, but the ARPA funds may be because we hadn't allocated that to anything yet. So that fortune might be, but I find it hard to believe our fund balance would be considered a loan to ourselves. Yeah. Well, maybe, I mean, again, these things are made by regular people who also may not have thought through some of the things that they're doing. So there's a possibility that we could potentially. I think that might be a question that we ask. Do you understand what I'm... I don't understand what you're saying. I get entirely what you're saying. The problem is we, and I guess we don't have to accept it once it's awarded, but tomorrow's the deadline for applying for this fund bank. And so I just want to, you know, I'm very concerned how we're going to manage all of our obligations, our regular obligations. Vic had a comment. Yes. I don't know. Is this concern your regular obligations? The fact that, what is it called, what's the theme of call it, the next step in our putting out the contract? The big process. The big process. What about that money? You know, that's 2.6 million. Where are we going to pay that? That's exactly right. That's the next hurdle. That's the next hurdle. Well, shouldn't that be part of our thinking and this budget? It's on my list. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yes. I mean, that's... We did talk about that a couple of meetings ago. We were like, we should be putting some percentage in of what we owe, what we know we're going to pay, have to pay for this, the 7%. Well, it's not even just that. We don't even get all that. Right. It's also... It's the principle of any loan, principle and interest of any loan that we feel like we're going to have to go secure to make those repairs to the road. So the 2.6 million dollars, plus anything that we have to move from the line of credit that's not covered by this. So, I mean, it could be 3 million dollars for all we know. But getting back to this $10,000 and whether we use our funds, we don't have... We can drop $10,000 worth of credit. We just won't use it. We won't spend that money. Right. So that's why I'm saying if the money's in the budget, you know, it's...  And then trying to recover those funds as well. We may not end up having to do that. I mean, but we didn't know the flood was going to happen. We don't know if we're going to get enough. You know, so I just think there's a lot riding on this that we really need to address. And... Yes, George. Maybe we have a question. I understand where you guys are going with this, you know, and I'm not pretty. I love the budget committee. So, you know, I think you guys, you know, really a lot of plots, but into all of this, I'm looking at the bigger picture. And Mark has a question or comment. So I just want to clarify that I think we're going to have a lot of questions. I think we're going to have a lot of questions. I think we're going to have a lot of questions. I just want to clarify a few things. We had a discussion at the last meeting about all the money related to the flood. And I thought we had consensus that we would treat that as separate from the fiscal year 25 operating budget, except for line item 29 or 28 and 29, which Duranda has included. So I don't know how we'll ever get to approval of a fiscal year 25 budget. If we don't separate what we think our operating budget is going to be and then figure out how we're going to finance or recover all the money we're spending on the roads. Because it's my recollection that that was a consensus we had at our last meeting was we would treat these separately because the flood recovery is a one-off. It's not an annual budget thing. It's a one-off situation that we have to explain to the voters. And if we have to bond it, if it's a worst case scenario, that's what we do. But that we would separate these two entities. Does anybody else have that recollection? Yes, I have that recollection separating. But it doesn't, it still doesn't, I think that what we talked about also, maybe it's in the minutes, was how we're going to communicate this with the town because you can't not talk about the cost of the flood, right? Correct. No, I understand that completely. I think the idea was, and I'm trying to help you out here, Mark, that we would just treat that as a separate issue. We would say, you know, here's the operating budget. Here's the projected increase based on our operations. Now, here's the elephant in the room. All this flood stuff to deal with. At this point in time, we're still only guessing what the total cost is. And to a certain extent, we're only guessing about what funds are going to be available to do it. And I know sitting in the redness seat, I'd be scared, I'd be scared silly too. I mean, you say, okay, what happens when we get a bill for a quarter of a million dollars and there's no money to pay the bill? Well, the quick answer to that is that's what banks are for. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. I'm hoping we can piece this together so that the effect on us is not that great, but it's still a gigantic unknown. And we could sit here and talk all night about what we think it's going to be. Right. Especially what this other part of the road stuff is going to be. I mean, the first part of it, we've got our arms around, but there's at least, I don't know, if it's another 2.6 million, that's more than double what we've already done. And the unknown is exactly my point. The distinction I'm making is between the known and the unknown. We know what our operating budget is going to be, but you go ahead and get that approved. Then we should deal with the unknown because we don't know how we're going to finance that. You don't really know until we know what the full damage is, and we might not know that for who knows, several months. I think part of the issue that creates the most rub is the fact that we used the money that we had here to fund the work prior to. And getting back to that point where if all of the flood funding was completely separate, and we never touched our general fund or the ARPA money or anything like that to help save on interest or anything like that, we'd still be sitting in a spot where we have that money for operational cash flow, and the concerns would be much lower as far as the amount of time it takes to figure it out. Because we've got two school payments coming up that are going to be $1.8 or $1.9 million over the next couple months. I think Dorinda and I were talking about what the expected tax revenue might look like. Do we even have enough tax money coming in to cover the expenses that we know are coming our way? And because I think because we don't have that fund balance to use as our operating cash, I think there's concern there. So I think we do need to address, if we're going to separate them, then let's separate them. But we need to move forward and give some direction on how we're going to tackle this flood funding. 100% on that. One of the ideas I've been kicking around is draw down that other $150,000 on the line of credit and refill our coffers for the money we put into this, whether it's ARPA funds or fund balance funds or whatever we call it. So we've got a little float in our operating situation. How we parse it out, I just want to be sure that we're able to communicate clearly to the voters on Town Meeting Day what we're up against. Because I can tell you, people I've been talking to in town basically have no clue. I mean, they understand it's a lot of money. They understand FEMA's going to give us some of that money. They don't understand what the match is going to be. I mean, they just don't understand. So, you know, is this an obligation town has to deal with? You bet it is. And we may have one of the things I like about this bond bank situation, and I think I'm right, Dorinda, is that money we get to pay back over seven years, right? Yes. And first two years is only, if you choose, is only interest. Right. But, you know, there's a line of credit which is a one-year-in-a-time deal and where I believe we're supposed to pay it down to zero right before it renews. Are we? We have, well, so what will happen is it comes due in October and they said they would re-address it then that, you know, whether they would extend it or whether we would have to take out a new line of credit if we were still using that. Yeah. But all the same is, you know, for the relatively modest amount of interest, if it makes us all feel better to refill some of that ARPA money and refill our fund balance, that's a good quick way to do it and have the money. And yeah, we're going to pay a little bit of interest on it, but we've got some cash in the bank. And what is that? Is that 3.9 percent? Is that what the... 3.99. That's for the community loan bank. Yeah, it's a marketing bank. It's a marketing bank.  I have a question for Dorenda. Dorenda, do you think that there's going to be any change in the numbers you put in for line items 28, 29 before we approve the budget? Well, we put zero in on line 28. Or didn't we? Yeah, zero on principle. There's plenty against the principle because you guys hadn't really decided at that point. So there's nothing there. And I think we plugged in the 30,000 based on what I think we found. And you calculated it. Yeah, I think we did some back in the napkin quick. Matt, maybe to make sure there was something in there. But, Mary. We could take those, like you said, we could take those two things out of the budget. But when we set the tax rate, we still, we would have to... You know, that's one thing. Whatever your budget increase or decrease is doesn't affect what your tax rate is going to be. That's decided at the time that we're setting the tax rate. And that's all based on how much income we've got. And, you know, it's not the same. It's not proportional. Yep. It's not. It depends on the new grand list. There's a lot that goes into it. So can I make one more comment about this whole what Mark was saying about what goes into this budget versus flood stuff? So I think when you were making the comment, oh, it's a big unknown. I don't think it is a big unknown. We know what we've spent. We know what we have. We know what we need to borrow. We know what FEMA is going to give us. We've been told, hopefully, that maybe our match is going to be seven percent. Maybe if we're lucky. Might be as low as three. Okay. So maybe three, seven percent. We also know what you guys have estimated for next year for road repairs. This budget passes July one. All those road repairs are going to be done May, June, July, August, September. We need money to pay them. We're going to have to borrow because we won't have gotten that money from FEMA. So I believe we should include in here another, how much do we think we're going to spend? 2.6. Another 2.6 million. If we need to borrow another 2.6 million to cover next year's costs, we need to put that interest in here as well. How else are we going to pay for it? Well, we don't have to do the whole amount. I don't think that you would have to do because a year's worth of payments. A year's worth of payments, right? But a year's worth of payments is 2.6 million. No, it's not because you'd be paying it for solely. Right. We only pay it once a year. So it would come due next October when this one expires. Unless we pay this one off with what FEMA gives us, then we could take out a whole new one when needed. Right. I guess I'm just worried about that. I'm not saying we need to put principal anywhere in here or the amount of funding, but we need to put some sort of interest payments because we know we're going to have to borrow to pay next year's work. Yeah, that was my reason for asking, Darinda, because I knew there was still something out there could be projected and put it in the budget. So this 30,000 was on how much that you said it was... I don't remember if we... What did we use for that? I think we used the... What was pulled from the line of credit. Yeah. And then we did the 3.99% interest, and then I think we put something else in there. I guess the reason that I say it would be important to add that too is that if this... And again, this would have walked out everything that you just cut by adding more interest in. But the townspeople have to understand that there's a cost to this flood and that we have to pay for it. And even if FEMA reimburses us, they don't reimburse us for interest. We pay the interest. So I think it behooves us to put a line of element for the interest for next year's borrowing that we're going to have to do. All right, I would agree with you, Darinda. And that puts us over 10%. I don't. So I've expressed this to the Budget Committee that my personal feelings is we should be planning for the worst moment for the best. And arbitrarily setting a percentage that we have to get under no matter the cost, it just hurts us, and it impacts the future ability to operate the town. And it's not being paid. If that's good for you. Right. For the town. It won't pay you. Yeah. So I still think that there are valid cuts that are recommended here. But I totally support adding in the additional cost into this budget to carry those funds. And whether that wipes out the total of the recommended cuts that we've already made and brings us back to where we started, so be it. Well, the one thing I think and hope and pray that our citizens are going to understand is, you know, whatever the cost to the town, ultimate cost to the town is including interest cost to borrowing, including match, including, you know, things that we can't get reimbursed for, which are going to be some, you know, that that's that's something that basically we have very little control over.  We want to have the road safe and passable. And, you know, we need to appropriate enough money to do that. So I am not I am not particularly tied to any percentage. I mean, it's always nice, you know, in the past, in the past, sometimes we set a goal for ourselves. I remember that happy years when we were projecting, you know, four or five percent increase as well. Guess what? Those days are gone, long gone. And I think we all know just from earning our own households and businesses that the cost of everything's gone way up. So to expect the town to be able to live with a relatively modest increase. I hope they'll understand that we just can't do it and provide the services that everybody wants. So, you know, I agree with adding the interest back in. I think that I think that that makes sense. In terms of the principle, I think we should keep that separate. I think so, too. That just puts things way out of whack. Yes, Mark. So, I mean, I'm comfortable with bumping up line item 29 to put in a realistic estimate of what that interest payment will be next year. And then we'll just see what the increase comes out to and what it is it is. Unless we want to look for more places to cut the percentages, what it is, and we explain it to the taxpayers. So I would also say two other positive things. One is, and Derrinda always pulls me up short on this, but over the lion's share of years, we underspend our budget. Now, there have been a few times in recent years when we've overspent our budget. So we certainly can't count that we're going to underspend it, but there's always that chance. You know, we're going through a reappraisal. That's going to trickle down and affect us. We all got the, we all saw the report, our numbers have dropped from, what did they drop from, like 90 to 80, roughly? 80? 81 to 71, the CLA. 81 to 71, right. Yeah, the CLA. So, you know, the good news is we're ahead of the curve on our reappraisal because almost certainly next year they would mandate that we do a reappraisal and we're already, and we're already doing that. But from where I sit, our primary responsibility is to meet the needs of the town. And when we're talking about the town, we're mostly talking about roads because that's the big chunk of the budget. We can't do anything about the school. It'd be nice if we could, but practical. Okay, so I think that would be the number. What would be the number we should plug in for interest, do you think, Dorenda? Well, that's what Randy's saying. Randy, why don't you tell us what it should be? I didn't calculate it, but I just said that line item essentially should cover one years of interest for the full $4.8 million that we've incurred or will incur for the flood recovery effort. So everything that we've done thus far plus the $2.6 million that's coming next spring. So I think we've spent roughly $2.2 million already, even though we've only borrowed the $1.5 million, I think you said earlier, we've actually incurred $2.2 million worth of work. And then the $2.6 million will bring us to that $4.8 million. So $2.6 million plus $1.5 million. No, it's the $2.2 plus the $2.6 million. But we've only borrowed. We've only borrowed, but we have to go back and borrow more to replenish. Okay, gotcha. Randy, excuse me. Randy, don't we expect to get a FEMA money hopefully sometime this spring for the work we've already done? So I don't think we need to do the whole $4.6 million or whatever it is. It's not coming in in one lump sum. It comes in piecemeal. We have $6,000 coming in sometime along that for our dumpsters. I don't buy it now. I don't want to do that. But then if you like me on the process there just... So what happens is we submit everything to our contact at FEMA. He goes through it with a fine-tooth comb and then once he's satisfied that all the bills and everything is in order, he sends it on to his bigger people. And then they go through it. If it's under $250,000, it's a quicker process. And what they do is they release the funds to the state. Then the state pays us. If it's over $250,000 per project, they have to go through an audit process. And that will take longer for the funds. We were told... We're talking in drips the size of $6,000 versus what if we should... Well, that's all that's been submitted. We were just told last week that they submitted the brook road for $250,000. So that has now left the hands of our representative and has gone on to FEMA. We have not heard that it's going from FEMA to Vermont yet. But we have submitted all of our work to date to our FEMA person. Yes, we have. And that's how... Well, back today, everything in what was considered emergency... Okay. And that was two... How much? It was two point... That portion was like two point one or something like that. So... All of the same sizes, Randy? Hold on, Peter. Randy is talking. It's been a three to four month process to reclaim this six or $7,000. It's a process. And Dick has had a question. I'd like to talk to you. Just a caution, I guess, is that we say 2.6 million for this stuff coming up. But we don't know. We don't know what those contractors are going to bid. I mean, great. It would be great if they came in as well. Right. But we've got the estimate that was put together that's all we can run off right now. Right. The one thing though, we need to consider that if it runs past... Any work running past July, we're taking out a new loan in October of 2025 or 2024. Let's see. That's going to come due. We're always a year behind where we borrow that. Money. So we won't have to pay that. So if we borrowed it in physical year 25, we wouldn't have to pay for it till physical year 20. But we still know we have to borrow money in physical year 2024 to pay people this summer. Yes, we probably will. So that's where this 4.8 million. And do you have a calculator mark that you're able to plug in? What the interest rate of 3.99 would be? Or 4% for 4.8 million for one year? Well, you're working on that. I just want to say again, I don't think it needs to be 4.8. I mean, I agree the money is going to dribble in from FEMA. But with some luck, we're going to get some of that money before the start of next year. But certainly the rest of it, I would expect would come in next year. So it's never going to be... And I don't know what the number is going to be, but it's never going to be 4.8. I don't think. You're right. But it's also, you're only going to get this last year's stuff coming in this year, in 2025. We're not going to get the next 2.6 million until 2026. I understand that, but all I'm saying, a whole 4.6 is never going to be there at one point in time. Either the work won't have been done yet, the cost won't have been incurred, money will come in from FEMA. I don't know what the magic number is. Maybe it's 3 million. Maybe it's 2.5 million. I don't know. But I don't think it's 4.8. That's all I'm saying. And if people want to be just for 4.8, that's fine. But I think we're overstating the need. Is our goal tonight to pass this budget? No. Okay. I didn't think so. No. Okay. Other thing, the rate might be 2.99. Right. And the rate might be different. Mark. I just have a question for Duranda. In terms of the size of the projects we're submitting to FEMA, I'm assuming our strategy is to try to keep as many of them at 250 grand or below. So it'll be a quicker process. Is that accurate? I do. That's accurate. I believe it was 4 or 5 that we had no choice every and over. Okay. But already we're under the 250. Okay. So Mark, at some point, are you able to do that calculation? What's that? At some point, are you able to do a calculation on one year's worth of interest at 4% for 4.8 million? Well, I don't have my little calculator. My laptop is not a, let's just say it's not a... So at some point, that's the number that needs to go in with the line item. To plug in. Because the 30,000 was based on what number? 2.2 million? 160,000 is the interest. So even if we cut that in half, that would be 80. Yeah. Oh, it's big money. I mean, that's the reality. I got 191,000, but I was on 4.8 million. Oh, yeah, I can put it. Yeah. Oh, what did you put it? What did you use? 4? Yeah. Okay. So 4 million was 160,000. So 2 million. I mean, I'm just... Yep. I don't know. What do you guys think? I mean, I think that we need to be... By putting in only 2 million for the, or for an interest payment on 2 million, isn't accurate. Is that correct? It's not. I mean, it's not. So let's just put in the 80,000 for 4 million. I think that's a little high. Do you think that's a little high? Yeah, because I mean, I think it's going to go over not just the 25 budget. I think it'll end up rolling into... Into the 26. So how about 60? 60K. Yeah, I'm good with doubling it to 60. Okay. Let's do 60K. Does everyone feel okay with that? Yes. Welcome. Welcome. Yes. Didn't know what you were getting me. Yeah. Okay. So we're behind on our schedule by quite a bit. I thought I was doing really well until I wasn't. We're half an hour behind. Is everyone okay that we move on to the Treasury report? I don't think I have a report. Okay. Let me just... Update on IT services and other issues. Which I took care of that one. You guys, I emailed over and you see that at 11 o'clock this morning, the audit report from Bonnie. So we need to accept it at some point. I went through it today. I only actually... There was only one thing in it that... And it just referred to a date and not any kind of financial... And it wasn't her finding. We found they made mistakes. So... But I didn't see anything. But I guess if we're going to have another meeting or something, then maybe we can approve it then. Okay. Do you have suggestions for the layperson? What part of the report is best for us to look at? Like, is there a summary? The first couple pages of it is pretty much summarizes and then the rest of it gets into the detail of all the funds. And the other thing was I did hear, which will come up probably or has come up Rubin from RB Technologies contacted me, wanting to know the status of what we were going to do. We are falling further and further. I think when he was here last, he said it was six months out. Before he could get to some of our work. So I just want to bring that up. That I know what we're doing, but I wanted to know the contact with me and get it. So for your reference, we had interviewed... What was that fellow saying? Bob Butler. Bob Butler who came to a meeting. He's out of Waterbury and does IT services for some of the meetings, like Waterbury Municipality. And then he the next day sent us an email saying, actually, I don't have the time to help you. So we sort of are back to square one if we're going to be considering looking for other IT service providers. So I don't know if we want to continue to do that or we want to just tell RB that we're going to continue working with them. What are people's thoughts? I've got a list of probably five entities that folks have provided for referrals to reach out to. If we're going to move forward with this, I'd be happy to call. I know Dorenda's been kind of heading this up or help her make these calls. I think leaving it at Dorenda and Sarah are both pretty busy these days. And leaving it at their feet, I think is unfair to them without us being able to provide that outreach. So I'm happy to reach out to these entities that folks are referring to us, except more referrals, if folks have other people that think we should be reaching out to. But I think we absolutely have to do something. And we can't keep picking the can down the road. Are you comfortable with that, Dorenda? Yeah, I, yeah. What is a sideline? What is, is, is Jack fun? I get a school email. Oh, yeah. Did you say school? Yeah, schooled. Schooled on this, like. So he can stay in the same room as us? Yeah. He'll get a, he'll get a, you'll receive, make sure you leave your personal email so we can send you the information for your talent email. And then all your emails will come through there. Okay. I was going to say on the IT piece, I've got a pretty huge IT department with a lot of people on our local that may have some recommendations. They can subcontract a little bit, so they can have some names. I've heard Omar be technologies, but. Okay. Well, in a good way. Yeah, I'd be happy to get. What does our contract with RV expire? I don't think we have any more, please. We did issue, we did issue another contract. We did issue another contract. But essentially, I think we've got a 60-day window there that we can terminate that contract at any point in time, either side. We discussed that in the review when we decided we were going to sign the contract that they can. I remember that. I just think what you said, I really think we need to move full speed ahead. I mean, one of the things I can do, Randy, from out here in Colorado, is I can make some of those phone calls in context too to help you, to help you out. I don't think necessarily, I mean, what I think if we come down with possibly two people who are good candidates to do this, they should come in and meet with the board. But I don't think we need to meet with four or five different people. I would hope we don't need to. Yeah. All right, anything else? We made it a goal that by town meeting day, we had made a decision on this. I think that would be a victory. It's going to take some time and attention, but we need to do it. And the kicking it down the road thing is just too easy to do. Yeah. Okay. So we don't need a motion doing that. You did you have one more comment? Yeah, I was just going to say if somebody could pull it out, some of the needs for me don't help me ask the right questions. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and pull the existing contract with RB and pull out the services that we're currently getting so that I can talk more intelligently about where this is. So I'll share that. Sarah, did you have any comments? No, okay. Okay, anything else, Strinda? No, I think we're ready for now. Great, thank you. I have a report. Boys, you're up. So what do you want to know? New truck is still at the dealer. How long has that been? It's been about a month. Pretty close to it. The brake line is back on the road for now and the international is going next week to get some suspension work done that needs to be replaced on. Extensive suspension work. Yeah. Extensive suspension work. Worn out in broken parts. Say that many times. Right. Caused by driving two cars or a car. Meaning people? Or our workers? Our workers are driving. People aren't driving our trucks. Oh, I meant like sometimes when people go fast, it's washboard and then it causes problems to your suspension. But you're saying it's from... Well, it's workers driving. It's just a rough road. Yeah. And you're handling that internally, I imagine. Okay. What do we have for trucks on the road today? Two. Two plus. That's not very good. Well, we have a greater turbo, but... Yeah. Let me ask you, just for my own personal question about the grader, is there a temperature where you can't, like with the... You know how it became really muddy and then it froze? Is it impossible to grade on a frozen road? Absolutely. We're on a frozen road. Yeah, you're not going to do anything with it. That's another thing that I've been discussing or we've been discussing.  And the quality of the trucks just aren't there. And I think if we could, we've got to look at it. The other thing is due to the fact that we never used to run a grader year round. Well, we're burning up our warranty right now. Oh, because it's... Right. And we've had a mild-ish winter, so we have to use it because... But we've been using it plus snow. Yeah. Because... Plus snow. Plus, plus, plus the fact that this free-stop thing, free-stop thing, we're using our grader a lot more than we used to. I don't know what free-stop means. Huh? I don't know what free-stop means. Free-stop. Oh, free-stop. Okay. It's like a free-style skating or something like that. Or... Yeah. There you go. Okay. So that's... Let's go for it. Okay. What are you trying to say, Vic? Are you suggesting a faster replacement schedule for the equipment? Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to name it. It's not gonna... It's not gonna... They're not gonna lift. I mean...  Freightliner is a fine, fine, fine example. Yeah. And I think we need to look into maybe keeping one of our trucks that we have that's in decent shape for a backup. Instead of selling it, trading it in... We really need to have some kind of backup because right now when we're down a truck or two, we were down two trucks for a couple weeks. And the other thing we... I really want to point out, you know, and I think the whole select board should know, and all the people should know that in the town that Eric's gone above and beyond here to keep those... Because he's doing a lot of the mechanic work, all of it. Yeah. Rather than sending it out. Remember, we used to send it out all day. We used to go to the dealer. We used to go to the Bootsies. And granted, it would still cost money because you've still got to buy the parts. But it keeps him pretty busy. And we're pretty fortunate to have somebody keep an eye on it like he's doing it. So catch up wise, you've got two at work. One that's going into suspension repairs. Is that one of the two? Mm-hmm. And... Yeah, that'll be tied up for probably two days. What's the truck at the dealer? Is that a new purchase? Yeah. But it's there because it was a new purchase last year. And it's there for coolant issues. It's just disappearing. And is that sitting there because they're waiting on parts? Or what are they telling us? They're telling us that they had COVID and they couldn't work on it. And they don't have enough help. Yeah, they don't have enough help. I mean, it's a standard thing with dealers. We don't have enough help. It's a warranty. So it's every... Is everybody on hold like that? I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure about that. I know... The only thing you know, Randy, is anecdotal. And it's really... You know, what can I say? I mean, I can... I heard this, but I think that it's very frustrating for everybody. I know from the industry that I'm in that that is a huge issue. Skilled repairs are in short supply. Yeah. Question about the warranty. Is it based on the number of hours? Yes. Oh, that's why you said... Because we're using it in the winter, we're... We're burning up our warranty. We're burning up our warranty. That's it. For far less rigorous work. You're not even on your first night. Trying to make you aware of it, not so long. Yeah, it's just... It's just... You guys need to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Any questions about the highway from anyone? The roads? Anything else you want to add? No? Okay. Great. Alrighty. Oh, go ahead. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, I got approached and someone... And two or three different people have asked me. Those potholes over on Culver Hill, over on... Shady rail. Shady rail. And they are bad. And a lot of people saying that they had to spend like 7,800 bucks for tires because they hit the holes now that... I mean, I don't know of any way to delineate those holes. And I don't know of any way to repair those holes this time of year. I don't think... You got a cone in them? Well, yeah, you put a cone in them, but then you got a cone on the road and then when the plow it goes away. Oh, yeah, get spotted right now. So the problem is you pull the cold patch in and the next time you drive over it or it rains or you plow it, it's gone. Really, the payment, those black payment things that you put in, what happens to it? Get to pull down. Just get pulled out. It's frozen ground. The water gets in there? Pops out. Really? Oh, yeah. Like a clump of it? Oh, yeah. The plow hits it and it goes away. I mean, at some point, as Erica said, what we talked about is, we might have to go in there and cold plane some of that stuff. Get somebody that act... You know what cold planning is? Oh, I remember. Get spot mill those areas and actually put hot mix down with the mulch in, so it stays. Cold planning is the grinding of that material out, running that hole out and be brighter than the hole. Yeah. You get back to actually good asphalt to where you're not, where it's all crumbled up. You have something good to get here to. Is there maybe a sign you could put up that says bump or something like that? Sure. I mean, I'm just suggesting that because there's nothing else we can do. Yeah. You know, my comment on this is the people who drive that road every day should know where the potholes are, right?  Now some appear, some disappear, whatever. But any kind of signage or anything we can do just to show people where they are so they can avoid them. Because I agree in the past, we've used cold patch. It doesn't last a week. That's why there's that. Do you ever go up to the hospital from Montpelier? And there's a terrible pothole there that like literally... And that's why I'm like, why don't they fix it? But that's why. They can't fix it. You know, just in the same... It goes big day. All right. Anything else? So if that's possible for you guys to get some sort of like sign, that would be great. Anything else about the roads? Or we move on? Good luck tomorrow. Oh, yeah. Good luck tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be nice. Thanks. Before we move on, I was just thinking about tomorrow, if we've got two trucks that are available, we've talked about the trainer. We've got four people. Are you not going out? No, I didn't pick up. So the trucks, you're not including the pickup or anything like that. I mean, I can't go out on the sand roads, but I can salt. I really think you're right. No, I know everybody's being active. Thank you, George. Thanks for your service. Yep. Okay. And everybody just needs to drive slowly, too. I mean, that's the reality. Anyone who's watching, drive slowly. Okay. We are now on other business, and I believe we have Adrienne. And are you also here, Phil, for this? For this, just to help you. Okay. And who else? Sorry. No one? Okay, just two. On the EWP? Yeah. Okay. On the EWP grant application. And Sarah sent us this afternoon the answers to the questions around sort of the town having to front the money to support the payments to the contractors. Do you want to give us some more information about that, Adrienne? Yeah. First off, there were three of us doing that. I think maybe Jeff needs a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Give Jeff a little. Okay. Yeah. And I haven't been able to read this email, so I would welcome that information as well. A National Research Conservation Service federal program, and this piece of it's called the Emergency Watershed Protection Program. And it was brought to the select board as a program that landowners who have imminent damage, imminent threat to more damage in the next event are able to have an engineer come in and look at the dam, the problem in their land. And if they qualify for very specific specifications from this program, the program will pay 100% of the engineering cost to fix whatever it is. And it's mostly stream and water damage and protection for the next event. The program will pay 75% of the construction cost and the land owner has to come up with 25% of the cost. So back in August, this program was presented maybe to the select board. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was. Bridget Browning at the time did the presentation and said she would do the kind of the lead on it and could the conservation commission help us. And I agreed to do it with Larry Becker, who is also on the conservation commission, who is the technical director of this whole thing. And I am just the chair of the conservation commission willing to do the groundwork. So the state engineer came in, looked at 29 or 30 different. We put a thing out in front of the court form and said, if you have damage and hear the specifications, if you think you might qualify, let us know. The state engineer, Mike LaPoint came out with some other people filled with some visits. Larry, either Phil or Larry were on every visit and came up with 10 people that qualified based on the specifications. So what we're trying to do now is fill out the application that will allow us to apply for the grant. The money comes from the federal government into the state, into their program, and then the state releases it to the town. And what we just found out is they release it as a reimbursement, which is a bummer to put it mildly. It's about $418,000 for all 10 projects included, the total amount. So 25% and I actually, so the town would cover 75% of that through the federal money that comes to this state. The landowners will cover the other 25%. The engineering costs would be covered 100% through this program. So what I have here is an application today to fill out. What Mike LaPoint, who is the engineer, told me this afternoon after I got these emails from Dorenda and Sarah, was that you can, and a select board person has to sign it because you have the financial fiduciary that the conservation commission doesn't have, that we can sign the application, we can submit it, and we can pull out at any time if we can't figure out how to do reimbursements, how to figure out the contracting. I brought Phil because he was part of it. I really know nothing. I've been just trying to figure out, you know, I've been doing what people have been telling me to do, but it is not my forte. So these 10 landowners would have streams that would then be more secure. I think in the long run it would improve the roads in some of those areas also because the stream banks are contained, hopefully. So my suggestion is that we fill out this application, we apply for it, we're not putting up any money right now, and then we as the conservation commission, we need one select board person to take Bridget's place, and it's really unfortunate that that's the way it is, but you know, she volunteered to do it now, she's not here. To see if we can figure out, one of my thoughts is to get the 25% that the landowners would owe to maybe as soon as they sign a contract, they put that in a town escrow account so that the town has that money before the work begins, so that the town doesn't feel like they have to go around collecting landowners money. Michael Appoint said the reimbursement from the state comes in within 30 days, so that's something maybe we can work on. And then I'm hoping, and I'm not, I don't know about contracts, my husband knows a ton about contracts, Phil offered to help Larry's in Hawaii right now, but I think he could help if we can figure out how to support the town so that you're not doing all the legwork for the contracts, maybe we could make this so it isn't a burden to you guys. So Andrea Peter? Hi. Yeah. I have a question, so my biggest concern this is, I mean, yes, I mean you've heard all the discussion tonight about cash flow and where the money's going to come from and all that, so here we go again, right? But what I'm talking about is the issue, so you have 10 projects which qualify, do you have any sense how many of those people are going to be willing to put up to 25% because I find it hard to believe that everybody's going to say, oh, sure, we'll put the money in escrow. I called every single, I take it back, there were two people who I didn't get phone numbers for, so I emailed them. So I talked to eight of the people and I emailed two people. There was one person who responded back to me later and said, is it possible to do a payment plan?  I think when push came to shove, they might not be able to, but I don't know that for sure. And Phil is actually one of the people and I don't know if you can sort of speak to the damage and people had severe damage and so they need to do something about it. Getting 75% paid for is a pretty good deal if you've got to do something. Yeah. As Adrienne said, I went on a lot of these visits. I mean, some of them, well, we visited everyone who wanted to be seen. We thought they had damage. Yeah, but two thirds of the people didn't call, you know, their driveway eroded, that's not covered, or they got water in their cellar because they have bad drainage. The real focus here is stream bed. And I think a lot of our road damage is also related. Many of our roads run right along streams or streams run along roads, but those were the paths and that's where the roads got placed. So some of this damage also spilled over into other roads. But the focus, the real focus of the program is to protect holes and so to not have floods that wipe out houses for people. And in my case, we lost about 12 feet of stream bed. And although it never flooded, that erosion has encroached upon my beach field. Obviously, if the beach field in another event gets destroyed, my house is not livable. So it is one of the projects. It's those kinds of things that they're looking at up the road for me. There's a place where the river turns, it gets very close to the road. It's close to utility poles. And USDA's concern is that this could in fact impact a roadway. It could impact electrical infrastructure. So they're looking at those kinds of things. So these 10 of the projects are the ones that are pretty severe and do qualify. They meet all the issues. And so far, people are looking pretty seriously at taking advantage of this. There's more discussion going on, as most of you know, with the legislature back in session saying that streams and rivers and flooding mitigation is a top priority. And in fact, you probably heard the governor say, look, no one town fully contains a stream or a river. These are multiple town issues. They're statewide issues. And I know within my area, within my neighborhood, a number of us along the river have talked and said, I know we're impacted, but we don't own the river. And in fact, we've been told we can't touch the river by the state. So there's some discussion about should we have any liability or should the state, let's say in this case 25% on the share, should the state in fact pick that up? And if they're going to go down that road, I think a number of us will look to see about that. Because obviously I have a huge log jail at the one edge of my property. And that's going to impact people downstream. So is like, should I be paying 25% of the cost of this when it also relates to other people who are going to be fired or downstream or potentially even includes a lot of issues swirling around.  I think it's something that we've gone this far down the road as far as talking to people, talking about engineering studies, a lot of work put in already that we'd really like to encourage you to sign off on this project. It essentially will be cost neutral, except for maybe some interest money, because we may have to ask you or, you know, you know, we're gonna have to deal with the treasurer on this, that there may have to be some short term loans until money can come in from the state. Again, it's not, you know, looking at 300,000, roughly that USDA will contribute. We really don't know what the timeline is going to be because we haven't sat down to do any of that until we know whether or not we're going to move forward. You have to authorize that before we're going to go ahead and start to look at how do we do the contracting? Do we look for one contractor? Do we look for multiple contractors depending upon the size of the jobs? What's the timeline going to be like? So it could be smaller amounts spread out over a year, potentially. Well, the expiration date now is January 9th, 2025. Oh, okay. It's been extended. Okay, that's both work completed? Yeah. And one of my thoughts was nine out of the 10 of these projects, the recommendations are either stream water protection, stream bank protection, or debris removal. And then there's one project up on Zidane Road that's a rock line waterway. So one of my thoughts is we could get one contract, one contractor to do all nine. It seems like they're very similar things to do, and that would simplify everything if we could do one contractor, something like that. But again, I'm just kind of, you know. And it's mostly riprap where they're looking to stabilize stream bank or take out wood. Yeah. Randy? I'm wondering if there's been any consideration or talk amongst these projects to to understand if the property owners themselves are in a position to incur the cost and borrow money and allow the town to implement the accept money from the state and essentially provide the distribution at completion so the town's not, you know, kind of on the hook for, you know, covering interest or anything else. If the private party was able to do so and the town was simply a mechanism for distribution, it sits much better with me. Yes. Some of the costs run from 60,000, 55,000, 23,000, 19,000, 3,000. This is the 75% share, 86,000, 15,000, 14,000, 14,000, 19,000. So that's a substantial amount of money for somebody. And many of these people could not afford to do that. And maybe couldn't afford to do the 25% in which case they won't participate. Right. Exactly. Can I say one more thing? I got an email from Michael Point who is the state engineer who has been doing all this, who has been incredibly responsive and responsible right on top of it. And I emailed him this afternoon and he got back to me and he said that they, the people that are doing this have had conversations with Vermont DEC and the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources and submit, oh, the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources submitted their request for the EWP program assistance and they weren't able to produce a viable solution to help municipalities. And he said, I believe the state does have a process in place that can be used to help municipalities with managing the agreements. I'm not sure if it's through regional planning or another entity. And he said, I'll forward the information if I find the email that discussed this. And I didn't hear that from him. But so that this, I don't think we're the only ones having this discussion about this. Did you say that the work gets done and it gets submitted to FEMA or somebody else before it goes to the state? No, it's all state programs. It's a USDA program that's administered through the state. So Mike is, the money goes from the federal government to the state and then they release it to the municipalities. The reason I ask is we have spent a tremendous amount of hours as far as right now we have one project that's being held up because we can't produce an invoice for 162 cubic yards of material that states 162 yards. We've got hundreds of yards. But they are looking for one that says 100. So if it's that kind of detail that for them to approve, this is, I can tell you, this is going to be quite the paperwork project for a contractor or anybody. We had to have load slips from color crushing from pike from everybody that we did business with. And it's not FEMA. So it's USDA. It's not related to FEMA at all. Okay, so there's none of that paperwork at all. I don't know the answer to that, but I do know. There will be paper. It's USDA. If it's USDA, I'm assuming it's going to be around the same lines and it's unbelievable. I can talk to Mike about the detail.  I just want you guys not to think that it's just a matter of, okay, they submit it and then, yeah, a few days later, it goes to the state who releases if it's anything like we're going through with what we're having to prove and document now, it's monumental. So I would suggest, oh, here I said, I believe the only thing that Middlesex would need to do to close the agreement with, oh, would be to submit a final financial report, SF425 and a final progress report. I had something similar when I lived in Fairfax, where after I bought the house, three months later, my oil tank was filled in a storm, knocked it over, so I had oil spill all over and I had to go through some type of grant. I don't ever got involved. I had to pay 25% and the state took in all of it for me. I sent them the bills and they paid off it. This is, but this is, this is they're making it go through. That might have been a hazard this way. Yeah, this one does go through. Yeah, yeah, but waterway mitigation, but it's a whole different outfit. USDA soil conservation. USDA. Streaming. So you guys, in the interest of time, I would agree that we, that we move to approve applying for this, knowing that there are lots of issues that we have, and that I would say, I would really hope that the conservation commission would take the lead on the paperwork piece of it. And when you say, you have to have a, that you have to have a board member, do you just mean a board member as like, I'm okay with this? Like, you'll have to sign all these papers. Yeah, I have tonight. All right. But like, I guess, and we are taking the lead, you know, Bridget took the lead because she found the program. Right. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Mike has been wonderful answering my questions. He's probably rolling his eyes like, who is this person? But if I can get, you know, Phil can help if, if it comes down to contracts and my husband can help because he knows exactly what he's doing with that. Okay. Yeah. I would really like to, I agree this, this really is something we should support for many reasons, one, the roads to this is our tax base, right? We don't want to lose homes. And we want to keep people in middle sex, right? And we want to, you know, make sure that we're not washing away the world. And, and that this opportunity really is sort of net zero with some interest potentially and that we would be foolish not to take advantage of this knowing what we have, but that we have to have, we can't have to render and Sarah be managing it. I mean, they're going to have to do something, but they can't be the ones that are managing and Sarah has been completely clear about that since day one. But I would say like, there's a motion yesterday to ask questions with all that with all that said and realizing that there's some unknowns, I would make the motion that we take the next step and sign the paperwork and work our way, continue to work our way through this. Okay. And if we could get one point person on the select board, I think that would be easier for you guys. Yeah. And if I needed signatures or I needed something from you, I could just call a new member. Yeah. And so it starts if you want to put me, you can put me on there. Okay. So do you want to sign these papers? Yeah, outside of tonight. I could do it every minute or not. Sure. Why not? Well, I thought that's what it was. Well, just in case just by the federal government, yeah. Okay. So is there a second to Peter's motion? Yes. Okay. And with adding to the motion that Liz can sign the paperwork. No one yet. Okay. All those in favor of signing the EWP grant application and allowing Liz to sign, say I. Oh, there's I. Okay. The eyes have it, Sarah. All right. Thank you for coming. Thank you for explaining that. Oh, yeah. Leave it there. Yeah. I mean, do you want me to just sign it right now? Yeah. Well, there are a couple of them. I don't know if you need to keep going with me. I do leave them and pick them up. I just want to submit them as soon as possible. Yeah. So if you leave them and pick them up tomorrow, I'll sign them tonight. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. I'm really. You're welcome. All right. Honeybeam Barrett's request to be designated emergency shelter coordination action likely. Honey's not here. Honey's not here. Do you know anything about this, Steve? Have you talked to Honey at all? Is the emergency coordinator? Not in communication with her yet. Okay. Or by the standard. Yeah. I mean, I think it's fine. I mean, she managed the help to manage during the flood. Oh, perfect. Okay. Yes. Okay. So if you could just say Sarah. Okay. Let me make sure. And so I need to select word map. Just like we're now. Yeah, that's right. Steve, would you write the board report? It's good to see you, Phil. Phil. Good to see you. Okay. How's the skin? Okay. Is there an action? Is there a motion to move Honeybeam Barrett as to be the designated emergency shelter coordinator? I think she did a great job during the flood and she's very civic minded. Is there a motion? I'm not even sure. It doesn't technically need a motion. Okay. Then let's just say congratulations, Honeybeam Barrett. Okay. Orders. We've done that correspondence. I have, can I just share a little correspondence? So this is in regard to the town hall renovation. I know. So I have, I have been in touch with Megan and from VIA and about talking about the design development phase, how we've discussed adding to the ballot, a line item to ask the voters if they want to pay for the design development phase for the town hall renovation. And she, she got back to me and with sort of a clearer number. I do have a meeting with her this Friday and Dave, Megita and Sandy are coming to that meeting. And really what we'd be looking at is because the price potentially has gone up since they originally quoted it this past spring, it would be 50,000 for the design, up to 50,000 for the design phase plus 10,000 for a construction manager that's associated with that design phase. So asking the town for up to 60,000 to pay for the design development phase with a project, with a construction manager. So can I just speak to that a little bit? I just want to make sure it's clear that folks don't think that it jumped from like the, the 45,000 to the 50,000 just haphazardly. I think the number was like $53,000 or $43,000 or something like that. No, it was 43 in the line item on a spreadsheet. Yeah, but just trying to make sure that we're covering, you know, any potential change or anything, adding a contingency of approximately 20% is how you get to that $50,000 or up to $50,000. And then the 10 is, so Dave and Sandy and I, and Dave gave me a little background on these project, these construction managers and that my feeling, and after talking with Randy, is that we definitely have to have a construction manager for this project. Like we can't do it ourselves at the board, right? So as a part of this design development phase, if we're going to have a construction manager, that needs to be a part of the states as well. So that's it. So if we are asking, so we decided rather than just throwing a big bond out there to the town and saying, do you want to pay for renovation that we would, and this was Dave McGeeta's suggestion as well, is that we do the design development first before we present them on to the voters. And then we, as a select board, said, well, rather than trying to find money like ARPA money to pay for this design development, let's see if the town really even wants it in the first place. So putting it on the ballot to ask them for an additional $60,000 to do the design development plus a project manager. Was there a request I could call back to you? Were we talking about a renovation of this bill? Yes. A renovation, a major renovation. Yes. So like 2.1 million. And we have a whole presentation on it. We have all the documents that you are more than welcome to look at. It's actually in, a lot of it is on what's next in the middle. So it's on the website and on our website. Yes. So you can see we've had, we have a schematic already. So we hired the idea through a grant that we had to do a architectural study. Knowing all of the deficits we have currently in the town hall. So that's where our renovation came out with a subcommittee of folks that we've been doing this over the last year. Who estimated the renovation? Who was the contractor? It was Vermont integrated architects who we worked with. So they wrote the estimate. They wrote the estimate, yeah. Yeah, it's just preliminary work. So the design development would get into more detailed drawings and all of that and then move into an actual more detailed cost. Yeah, more detailed cost estimate. Is that when they will let us know how they're going to mitigate the radon? Then she said that we asked her about that. I think so. Yeah, everything. Should we have something in our budget in case it doesn't go through to mitigate radon or even look into it? Yes, we should. I want to also say that the reason that this sort of comes at this time as well is because there's plenty of funding up to $500,000 between this full energy resilience program that allows for weatherization, windows, heating systems, ADA compliance. ADA compliance stuff and so that regardless of the outcome we are still able to apply for those funds. Is this a historic structure early? It is a historic structure technically. So there are some historic preservation grants that we could potentially utilize as well. So part of this whole process is determining how much we would need to bond as well as how much in grant money that's available for a project like this. We looked at a tear down and rebuild scenario. Yes, that was a part of what VIA did. They didn't do a tear down though. They did a different building in a different location and that we decided it came out to a higher cost plus we wouldn't be able to use the MIRP money because the MIRP money is for existing municipalities, it's not for new municipalities. So it became more cost effective overall to do a renovation of the building and keep it here in town. So yeah, I mean and there's a lot of background that you can look at here free time. So anyway, so Sarah, my question for you was if we're going to put that on the ballot, we don't have to decide that tonight or do we? No, because you're going to put it on the warning. Yeah, on the warning. Where you haven't, you can't even vote on the warning until after the special article deadline passes on the 18th. All right, but that's something that will go like, we don't have to vote to go on the warning. You can say, okay, gotcha. All right, is there any other correspondence, Sarah? Oh, I see some letters today from the city of Montpelier asking if the town would be interested in joining their disaster preparation plan, do you know about this? Definitely. For the effect of the April 18th apparently Montpelier is expected to double its population or something. Oh, yes. Okay. Wow. Really? Towns need to put together in a region wide, just want to know if we would like to join them preparing for this. I was thinking disaster preparation. No. Clips watchers, I'm not worried about. No, I don't think we would. But if you are free that weekend and you want to run out your house, this might be a good time. I think so too. A lot of people are doing that. I think we had a total eclipse in the last like 10 years. There was somebody capped up and we had the last summary. Okay. Any other correspondence? Okay. Considering rescheduling January 16th meetings, January 23rd, I'm sure approved the warning for the March 5th. So the problem is that your last meeting, if you're going with the schedule you guys approved last time, is going to be next Tuesday. That's before you guys can vote on the warning. So I'm wondering, do you want to have two more meetings? Do you want to have a 16th and then 23rd? Or do you want to, how do you want to, how do you want to do it? Considering rescheduling this, wait, wait, tell me the problem again. So you can't vote on the warning until after the special article petition deadline, which is a week from Thursday. And that's the that's not good. You're going to be next Tuesday, according to the special schedule. And by then you still won't be able to vote on the warning. So we should, so we were going to meet two weeks in a row. You were? Yeah. But I probably had a reason for that. Yeah, there was because you didn't want to move the second meeting. We didn't want to meet on the second of January. Well, there wouldn't have been nothing to do. So let's meet on the 23rd. So what do you want to do? Do you want to have a meeting or meet both?  Well, see, the logic there was we would, nothing would happen before January 2nd, but if we did it 9th and 16th that one week, a lot was going to happen. I have one question that might throw. There's five Tuesdays. But no, it really isn't. So go to 23rd. That's going to. So just if you are separating or if we make the decision just to put the interest in the budget, but then you said there was going to be a discussion about separating. Do you need a special, not a special meeting, but if there's something, is the budget committee, I should have asked this when you were here, is the budget committee going to get together or is this going to be, I don't think it's going to be a five minute discussion. So, you know, how that's going to be presented and. There's some loose ends. Yeah, thank you. I think the budget committee has said that, you know, we're flexible and scheduling the meetings, however needed to be the committee, what the select board is. Well, the reason I asked is, do we need 2 meetings or is 1 going to be sufficient to handle that portion? And I think it depends on whether or not the members of the board decide that 730 is their ending point or not. Sorry. Did you have a comment? I just, my 1 comment was that when we got together originally to go through this budget, we did have in mind, you know, trying to trim, we took from what 4, maybe 5 places, lines that had previous years had way more money, a lot allocated to it. And that's why we chose those 4 or 5 lines. We've now here tonight added 2 lines that were not included in the budget we were looking at the last time. So, yeah, something's going to need to be done. Well, those were in the 1, the 1 that I sent you guys, it just, it wasn't filled in with any number. And they had a 0 in that holding, that's why they highlighted in yellow. And the other thing of it that's not complete is, and it has no impact on what you guys do, is we don't have all the special articles in yet. So, that's going, that's after the approved budget. And I think that just kind of brings us back to what we were trying to do at the last meeting was to get it as low as we could see it without like taking 500 here and 500 there and also being conservative that we would end up with a bunch at the end. And I would say that that let's not mess with the $30,000 worth of elevator, but let's do look at the $40,000 that we were looking at taking away if we're talking about adding $60,000. I just barely put those into my, I put those changes in. So, I would envision that with those changes, Derrinda would be able to recirculate that worksheet that we were working from with everything we've talked about here tonight. And I think that, you know, the Budget Committee probably wants to meet to talk about the separation of this and try to come up with some ideas to present to the Board on what that other piece looks like.  But yeah, I think I think what this Board needs to focus on is, is if we're going to have a, whether a dedicated meeting is needed for what happens there or, like you said, the amount of time that it's going to take to discuss that, can we do it in one meeting? And again, my comment is, you know, the timeframes that are always on the agenda are always seem to be isolated and it's taboo to go past 7.30. So, if we're going to do one meeting, I think there needs to be an expectation that it's going to be a longer meeting. So, heads up, heads up everyone. I just need to let you know that the 23rd will not work for me. I will actually be in Vermont, but I'm having a surgical procedure and Hanover that day. So, I won't be able to attend a meeting on the 23rd. Can everyone else? And just have like a special budget meeting on next Tuesday. I know that's not awful, but then you can tell them that you ever do anything and just concentrate on the budget. And then by the time you get in there on the 16th, on the 23rd, you know what I mean? Yes. That seems to be the long decision. Just concentrate completely on the budget. Nothing else. Yeah. That's next Tuesday. Yeah. Just 16. Right. I'm sorry. I don't want to do it either, but we're already scheduled for that. And the 23rd, we're saying Tuesday. Yeah. And then when you get to the 23rd, I see it'll be a less of it. Okay. That's fine. Approve the warning and talk about all the other things in a row. Because we've got, you know, the forward field at this point, we'd be able to you know, move forward with anything that we need to if Peter's not able to attend. So Well, that solved that problem, I think. But a few things on the agenda tomorrow. I have to submit that bond application tomorrow. And I still don't have final numbers from Steve yet. Steve is, sir. Yeah, I know it. What's the telephone number here? 2235915. Yeah. Are there any other matters that come before the board? Are we adjourning? No, I was, I was trying to push you. Yeah. Are there any other matters that may come before the board? Any guests here that had anything, anything they want to say? Alrighty. Well, we are adjourning. I'm sorry to say an hour and five minutes past the schedule.