e Saudis and the emirates are deeply fearful of iran's influence across the region and of course hamas is uh significantly influenced and funded and armed by iran so there is i think a lot of concern about iranian power expanding as a result of this war it's also important to note uh that hamas is a splinter of the muslim brotherhood movement and of course the saudis and emirates are deeply disdainful and fearful of that as well so there's lots of reasons to try to block measures that would support hamas support iran support the muslim brotherhood so we understand their motivations um and i think uh that certainly informed their decisions at this summit hannah geffen do you think that the summit managed to strike the right turn given the immense pressure that they are under from their own populations it's surprisingly the the decision not to do anything which is the the bottom line of uh might be surprising in uh faced with the the the rhetorics that started these discussions and or the expectation at least um but it goes in line with what we see for the last 10 or more years in and every uh confrontation we have in gaza we have seen the same phrases coming not this time it's more serious but the same bottom line is it is not our problem we are going to help you we are going to give you money we are going to ask the u n to deny we ask other to do to do so uh but you are not going to take any actual action and this is the philistine philistinians time and again are frustrated i would like to mention one thing though and i think it's still it wasn't behind the uh in the in the mind the back the back of the heads is the atrocities of the 7th of october because you have heard of the one is mentioning it it was the everybody all of them are condemning condemning these atrocities and i believe some of them already told the the palestinian leaders the the Hamas leaders that visit the turkey or or even the iranian this is and this is something that shouldn't be done uh and we are not going to be part of of anything that is connected to it it is part we are we didn't see it so much but we hear these things from time to time and i'll do one mention it it even in nasralla last time if the last uh uh speech he had he mentioned it said uh but it wasn't done by the the palestinians he was done by the israeli the we couldn't they're trying to walk back there so it's bothering them it's a thing that are really bothering them well and uh jonathan shows that that's an interesting point isn't it i mean the Saudis have criticized Hamas the Emiratis have criticized Hamas do you think there's a um it kind of a move on behalf of our leadership to really distance themselves from from that behavior which they have called on islamic oh absolutely and i do think that that speech from nasralla from last week it was very interesting you said we you know we did not take part in this you know i think really the emphasis right now is trying to uh call for a ceasefire to defend gossans uh but defending Hamas is something that i'm not sure any of these countries are willing to do i will say though that you know the rhetoric of erdogan the president of turkey was interesting he sort of mentioned it he said that perhaps not all of us approve of this it was a bit half-hearted on his part uh but he's still trying to use this moment as a Hamas supporter himself as someone that has a Hamas headquarters based in istanbul that he has built and welcomed he is i think really walking a tightrope here while trying to distance himself on the one hand but also supporting Hamas on the other and i think the Qataris probably fit in that category the Algerians the Kuwaitis you know you can see that they're a handful of countries that probably wanted a more aggressive posture and even an embrace of Hamas even as others at this summit we're trying to put some distance well um Jonathan i wanted to ask you about Qatar because um a close ally of the united states president biden upgraded the country's status and not so long ago where do you see that relationship headed after this i i see some very murky waters ahead for the united states and Qatar i think that right now the Qataris have at least some leverage because they're being seen as the ones that could facilitate the release of some of these hostages that are either based in Gaza or perhaps elsewhere that i think is really the only card they have left to play when this is over i believe there will be a significant revision of that contract between the united states and Qatar i think we may see the extradition requests forwarded to the Qataris to have some of these senior Hamas officials removed from the country i do think that more broadly the Qatari support for groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS and the Taliban and Hamas all of this i think will come under scrutiny members of congress will be looking at this and so will the administration i could potentially see sanctions in their future unless the Qatari's significantly significantly reduce that Hamas presence and start to take additional action let's talk about iran's president racy in riyadh for the first time in decades it was the first time in decades an iranian leader was in riyadh i should say it was interesting wasn't it to hear racy and the protesters in london chanting for the same thing from the river to the sea what does that say to you racy said very clearly he want to annihilate israel he was the only one and i guess all the all the rest of the the the participant were feeling very embarrassed by him speaking spoke very i think he damaged one of the damages that caused the decision there was his speech because it was so so out of the way that we hear the arab leaders today i don't i don't believe there's any arab leaders that will take such a position of such a stand and he's he was out out of context there and john as he says i mean why do you think that the saudis chose to invite president racy is it a case of better to have him on the inside than the outside or do you think there's more to it i think the saudis are hedging they don't know exactly where this conflict is leading and i think they they wanted to show unity within the muslim world but it was shameful it really is for an american ally to allow the iranian president to be there this is a man who's been supporting the hoothies which have been attacking the saudis over the last decade um this is uh the the same figure that has been supporting hamas and hezbollah a number of other groups that the saudis are opposed to so it was i think a shameful moment for the saudis i think they're probably regretting right now his inclusion in this conference and not just that johnson of course we've had more than 40 attacks by iranian proxies on us troops um in iraq and syria over the past few weeks um i mean any response from the us expected on that well we know we continue to see a us responding there's been 48 or more that we've been able to count of these attacks coming from shia militias and uh in syria and iraq it's obviously clear that the iranians are trying to drag the us into this conflict in some shape or form the us response has been muted until now the i think effort from at least from my vantage point is to try to prevent the spread of this war to a multi-front conflict this is what the us has tried to do from the beginning this is why we have assets in the mediterranean as well as in the persian gulf it's an attempt to deter the iranians and hezbollah unfortunately i think as long as the us is uh sustaining this kind of muted response i don't believe that the iranians or hezbollah will be deterred and actually more weakness or perceived weakness from the united states might encourage the kinds of attacks that we're seeing out of uh lebanon toward israel and out of the shia militias in both syria and iraq this has the potential for real escalation and hanan i mean basha al-assad the syrian president and iran's racy um have killed more muslims in the past decade than uh any other living yeah that's what a joke in the arab world because the muslim the the the sunnis in in in syria uh suffered a lot many of them i think a third of the sunni population was removed from the places spread around the world and this guy coming to speak about the human rights and so on so it's a joke that everybody enjoyed last week in the world and you wanted to say something about the the hussis no i don't know about the the how uh for the saudis to invite uh racy at a time when racy actually actually the hussis uh in in a way they are bounding the us and saudia and israel together they're creating a safe zone there uh trying to to build the early warning system combined with a combining experience so actually israel and saudi arabia together we u s a lot a lot of work to do and i believe there are a lot of cooperation as regard to the hooties let's talk about turkish president oda one then uh who was also at the meeting uh this weekend um and jonathan shan's i mean oda one um has been the most forthright perhaps uh in his uh support for khamas he says it's wrong to call them terrorists they are brave mujahideen um defending their land i mean he's a nato ally uh turkish is a nato ally why do you think he is going so far to to antagonize the united states or is them or to it the the uh the thing about turkey right now you have to understand this is an organization or a country rather that has the hamas terrorist organization there for the better part of a decade more than a decade now this has been um a serious problem for the united states but it's not the only problem for the united states right you got to remember turkey has bought the s 400 system from russia this was in direct contravention of american uh guidance and it actually poses a major cyber threat uh to uh the united states based in turkey they have supported the islamic state they have helped to run evade sanctions to the tune of 20 billion dollars over the last decade turkey i think at this point it's safe to say does not belong in nato at all and i do think that similar to what we're seeing with the kataris we're going to see a similar revision of the contract between the united states and turkey when this is all said and done but until then i do believe that erdoğan is going to continue to stir things up to continue to push for heightened tensions in the region i will note he invoked jerusalem at this summit the other day this was i think a new one for everyone there everybody was focusing on gaza and all the sudden he throws jerusalem which is of course a deeply sensitive issue in the muslim world and the arab world he threw that into the mix it was as if he threw gasoline on the fire i don't think that it took off i don't think that everybody sort of jumped on that talking point but you can see this is where that he would like to take things in the near future all right thank you jonathan well let's take a quick listen uh to erdoğan himself uh speaking at that summit this weekend it's a shame that western countries which always talk about human rights and freedom remain silent in the face of ongoing massacres in palestine well we can go to istanbul now we're joined by journalist ilegi nyakli and ilegi thanks for being with us um and and we just heard some of erdoğan's comments there and as jonathan shanzer was pointing out um he did go much further than any other leader perhaps not as far as president racy of of iran um to criticize israel and as jonathan shanzer put it as throwing fuel on the fire would you go along with that well we have seen that ardoğan has been far more strident in recent weeks um than his arab counterparts um you know and it's important to point out that this is from an ally of israel one that has uh diplomatic relations a huge trade relationship whereas a country like saudi arabia doesn't even have formal diplomatic ties so it certainly distinguishes um ardoğan um and you know he's been pursuing this it seems out of you know pure outrage he is very angered um by the israeli response to the october 7 attacks but as always it's important to note that this is a crisis that he's probably trying to exploit politically at home you know sympathy for palestinians is very widespread and one thing that ardoğan has done successfully here in turkey is almost equate the palestinians with hamas an organization that he has long supported right which is the opposite of what many um palestinian advocates are trying to do and say that the palestinians are not hamas and the palestinians are actually victims themselves uh of hamas i'm wondering how this is affecting his other relationships in in the region um with katar for example that has always been a complicated relationship hasn't it complicated sure but also a very close one um you know both in terms again of you know financial links ideology as well turkey has stood by katar um especially during his crises um with other gulf nations in recent years so in some ways um i would say that they're probably on a closer page what is interesting is that relations um between turkey and egypt and turkey and saudi had been so strained in recent years and this has now put them in this kind of uncomfortable partnership um the crisis in gaza um but it's important to note that those divisions were really a result of ardoğan's perceived support um for the muslim brotherhood um throughout the era world and one has to wonder whether his now a support for hamas um could raise concerns both riyadh and in kyro about his position on the brotherhood at large and i love i mean as you pointed out at the beginning um israel and turkey are uh our countries with relations they do have a strong trading uh partnership given his violent anti-israel rhetoric is ardoğan uh prepared to write off his relationship with israel you know his rhetoric certainly makes it look like he is willing to do that but i just find it confounding uh he has expanded a tremendous amount of um political capital in recent years to repair ties with israel you know he hosted president hardsog i believe it was two years ago and himself was planning before october 7th he had been planning to visit israel and try and make amends with netanyahu with whom he's had a very stormy relationship over the years so after all of that effort um as you know we mentioned the trade relationship which i believe was around seven billion dollars uh last year at least in terms of um exports to israel you know these are really important um areas for turkey and one that i would say i'd be shocked if anyone's willing to throw them away but we can't deny that his rhetoric shows that he is willing to push this as far as he can if it is just if he does stop short of breaking it ilah jeannie thank you very much thank you uh jonathan schanzer i mean do you think that israel can continue to have a relationship with turkey under order one after this i think this is going to produce a significant rupture i i think there's no doubt about that right now uh but look you know turkey's gonna have to get in line um there are a whole host of other countries that i think right now israel is more concerned with uh or jurisdictions let's say uh you know gaza is first in order of battle obviously the escalation that we're seeing in lebanon is a huge problem uh there are rockets coming in from uh from syria that's another problem there are rockets coming in from yemen that's another problem so turkey's in a long line of of uh of countries or jurisdictions that are provoking israel fortunately these are only rhetorical provocations which means that israel has the time and space to deal with this later but i certainly would expect that when the guns eventually fall silent and obviously we have no idea when that will be i think there will be a significant revision once again of that contract between the united states and turkey i think that the europeans certainly are looking at this with a lot of alarm wondering why he looks like he's stirring the pot right now rather than trying to produce a ceasefire trying to produce calm trying to you know maybe even use his leverage with hamas to try to get them to surrender which is what every country right now should be trying to do because the longer this goes on the worse it's going to get for the people of gaza that really should be the message that's being conveyed by the united states by the israelis and by every western capital erdogan needs to stop engaging in this kind of harsh rhetoric and he needs to reign in the proxy that he has been hosting on turkish soil all right jonathan shanzer at the fdd uh brigadier general khanan geffen eile geniacally thank you very much to you all we're going to take a very short break when we come back we'll be heading to europe tens of thousands of people have marched in paris today against anti-semitism we'll talk more about that after the break don't go away made for me a unique concept in israel custom made men's fashion to your measurements made for me designer of all your events schedule your appointment at www.madeforme.co.il made for me official dresser of i-24 news good evening ladies and gentlemen israel is at war make an investment in israel bonds it is the most powerful and direct way to stand with israel visit israel bonds.com and invest now is in a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where is she as our soldiers are fighting on the front line but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well the i-24 news we're coming to you live from televiv and the fighting in gaza is moving ever closer to the city's she fought hospital which the idf has identified as a hamas command center several rockets were fired from the strip at the towns and communities in the south of israel earlier today and israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu has been speaking to us media about how he sees the future for a post hamas gaza take a listen first the first thing we have to do is destroy hamas because otherwise they'll do it again and again and again and they've said so we'll destroy hamas the second thing we have to understand is that there has to be an overriding and overreaching israeli military envelope because we've seen any place that we leave we just you know exit give it to some other force very soon terrorism resurgence so we've achieved nothing the third thing we have to understand is that a civilian authority has to cooperate in two goals one is to demilitarize gaza and the second is to deradicalize gaza well with me in the studio ruth wasma lander is a former mk and a former diplomatic envoy to egypt thank you very much for being with us at ruth we'll get your views on that in just a moment but let's get the very latest from the south of israel and what is going on inside guards of this our correspondent zack andus joins us alive zack what is the latest where you are well laura the battle for shefa hospital is playing out in real time behind us the information that's coming in and showing quite a heavy amount of fighting all around in the streets that border the complex now the idf tells us that they are providing another corridor in fact a specific route directions to the staff inside the hospital on how to get out and that their window of opportunity for doing so is closing the idf has also acknowledged that there are infants that are receiving care on incubators and that they are providing a way for that to get them out they're providing a mechanism to rescue those infants but right now it's not clear exactly how that will happen or when it will happen and a very complex operation for the idf troops zack tell us how many civilians have they managed to get out of north and gaza in recent days so far the humanitarian corridor that has opened up over the last several days this has come in stages they have offered a window of opportunity that lasts several hours and then people can do so at their own volition they can walk through a specific corridor you might have heard another large explosion over my shoulder in the northern gaza strip inside gaza city they're offering a avenue down at one of the coastal roads for folks to south and so far the idf tells us that there have been around 200 000 individuals that have already done so the question now in a city that size and as dense as it is how many people have actually left in comparison to in the stages of this war could still be remaining and of course hamas is still fighting they fired another volley of rockets today didn't they this came from the south of the gaza strip understand yeah it did and that speaks to perhaps what's happening in the operations here in the northern gaza strip where the idf says they have one encircled gaza city two actively engaged several major strong points in bet hanun and jubalia where we continue to see these strikes and what we're hearing are these strikes in this area we can tell by the the distance of the flashes the intricacies of what happens next for some of these areas in the north is going to be quite curious because they are eliminating these rocket launch sites right but the rocket launch sites in the southern gaza strip potentially remain and haven't been targeted as heavily so the idf source is telling me that in the last 24 hours or so the majority of the volleys the barrages on israel have been coming from launch sites in the southern strip all right zack thank you very much indeed zack and this they're into their hot in southern israel i'm with wasma land is with me in the studio let's talk then about the operation currently underway in gaza 42 idf soldiers have now lost their lives over the past 36 days of fighting and it is becoming increasingly complex isn't it as they move towards the the sheaf or hospital it is a real hospital it has patients babies you know innocent people inside it is israel trying to get those people out well the thing is the irony is that israel as opposed to any other military that i've ever heard of and read is doing everything possible to warn people civilians to evacuate and to make sure that the evacuations are done in a manner which actually protects the palestinian civilians and the patients from their very own people the chamas that are hiding underneath the chamas is doing everything in its power to make sure that these patients and civilians do not escape isn't that a crazy world it's exactly the opposite of anything that makes sense and somehow for some reason the message isn't getting across chamas is preventing from patients palestinian patients from escaping in a secure manner to a safe place and the idf is actually supporting the escape the safe passage of these palestinians away from that hospital so they don't get hurt upside down world well as we know it is in the interest of chamas to have as many civilian casualties as possible because that assists them in getting the international community to put pressure on israel to stop fighting chamas i wanted to ask you about the french president Emmanuel Macron he gave an interview to the bbc um and he said uh civilians are bombed de facto these babies these ladies these old people bombed and killed so there is no reason for that no legitimacy we urge israel to stop um he got a lot of heat for that and today he actually called president helzog and kind of appeared to walk that back a bit he says that he doesn't believe israel is deliberately targeting civilians and he spoke to the former uh minister of defense benny guns and said that he stands completely behind israel israel has every right to protect itself and so on and so forth quite a miserable um expression of of of misexpression of what he wanted to say because as i said the idf is doing uh so much more than any military that i know or read of uh concerning trying not uh to hurt uh civilians in uh in the gaza strip while the actual chamas is doing everything everything it possibly can to make sure that as many civilian palestinians do get hurt there is not one thing that they haven't done put rocket uh laboratories next to kindergartens preventing from civilians from escaping shooting them with a live ammunition yeah i mean you're you're a formative from at risk you know the game you know is it um you know is it that people don't want to believe what they're seeing or they just don't believe it they think it's israeli propaganda i mean because the the message doesn't seem to be getting through to a lot of people if you look on the streets of european and america first of all i think that there needs to be a better um a vehicle for promoting that message it's not good enough a lot is being done by the government by the ministry of foreign affairs by the spokesperson union in the idf but it's not getting um the message out there it's not enough it's not the right uh vehicle as i said and it needs to be um innovated it needs to be improved and quickly because the message is not getting across but you know what lore i think that um to a vast degree there is um an antagonism to the actual message because a lot of the demonstrations by the way that are funded they are not just spontaneous hundreds of thousands of people demonstrations most of them not all of them but most of them are muslim demonstrators politically correct or incorrect that's what it is in france in the uk in germany in greece and elsewhere and they are funded by a certain role player um we need to figure out where that funding is coming where that encouragement for those antagonistic mechanisms are coming from in order to stop that so that we can get the message across so there are two ways to deal with this issue plus katar is funding a lot of the campuses in the us and elsewhere again when katar is funding it is also funding the carcasses that promote this message and the demonstration so we know where to trace the money to there needs to be an action plan regarding making the stop and let the people decide because it's very difficult for me to understand how slaughtering human beings can be received with anything but disgust okay all right well hold that thought we're going to have a look at this report now which gives us a bit of background to those comments by the french president Emmanuel Macron no we don't we'll get to get that up for you later on um you were also involved in the api hamcourt's roots so i want to ask your opinion on what happened at the weekend with this arab league summit and of course um the most uh virulent anti-israel countries like syria and iran katar they tried to have a statement which included things like boycotting israel severing all diplomatic ties preventing the americans from using their middle east bases to deliver weapons uh to israel it was the saudi's and the emirates who got that watered down and got them to take some of those things out are you encouraged by that first of all i am and second of all he doesn't surprise me because there is nothing that the saudi's the emirates and others do not know by the way including the iranians and the kataris and everybody in the arab league that they do not know about hamas everybody especially in this region doesn't need israel to explain what is hamas they know they know that it's the muslim brotherhood some of them side with the muslim brotherhood like turkey for example like katar they house and they sanctuary the leaders of the hamas but the others like saudi arabia like united arab emirates like egypt they outlawed the the the muslim brothers they do not allow them to raise their heads to say a single word as opposed to all the democracies in the west so they understand and they know what we are dealing with and they know they don't want them so declaratively they are very very tough but in essence de facto they have no intention in giving into iran and katar and all the other countries that they know give sanctuary to these terrorists and fund them and turkey of course so i'm encouraged and it doesn't surprise me all right we're on the same page even if they can't say it publicly that's what i feel well let's get back to the french president than immanuel machan who calls uh the israeli president it's a health talk today to clarify his comments in a bbc interview on friday take a listen de facto today civilians are bombed de facto these babies these ladies these old people are bombed and killed there is no reason for that and no legitimacy just three weeks ago french president immanuel macron landed in israel with a message of warm solidarity but for him times have changed his passage seen as a marker of a wider ramping up of international pressure on israel look in the very first days it's clear that the emotion the compassion created the situation where everybody was just close to israel but i think there is no justification precisely to attack civilians macron stark language is seen as a milestone a european power coming out for a full ceasefire and attacking israel's position on the war raising fears among israelis that the war may end with hamas still in power in parts of the gaza strip the war against hamas isis is progressing in full force and has one goal to win there is no substitute for wedding we will eliminate hamas and we will return our abductees protests have grown as here in london on saturday and the prevailing view in israel is that the sand is flowing through the diplomatic hourglass while israeli prime minister benjamin itanyahu digs in his heels setting up the clash that many say is to come so interesting to see president macron on the phone uh this afternoon to president how to try and clarify what he had said because that would have of course made him the first ally of israel the first western leader to publicly call for it for a ceasefire which israel says that's not going to happen until all of the hostages are released not only until all the hostages are released but there was a very clear declaration by the government of israel as per the objective of the war we didn't intend to go into gaza we didn't intend to go on the offensive in fact this is a defensive war par excellence and um we need to have the hamas destroyed uh up to the last breath up to the last uh hamas person very very difficult because hamas is an ideology it's not only the 30 40 000 operatives armed operatives that are there but uh but generally to have the hamas capability and manpower uh collapse we are not near that objective and i think that macron uh with his intelligence and following his visit here well understands that this is a life and death situation and they make it very clear they're absolutely unapologetic about it they interview uh to various channels and they say we're going to do it again and again and again we want perpetual war of course they don't hide their intentions which country is going to just let them be and see i mean it's it's obviously not going to happen all right okay well let's find out what's been going on uh in the north of israel today the idf has been striking hezbollah targets in southern lebanon after the group claimed responsibility for an anti-tank missile in israel which wounded several israelis including one who's in a critical condition our mary mccollif is there mary what's the latest that's right laura so this area is still reeling from a series of different attacks today there are at least four anti-tank missiles across the border two of those causing significant injuries one we will begin in mount dovev where at least 10 people were injured by that strike ziv medical center here in spot took in a number of those patients including one who was in serious condition after they were hit hezbollah for its part so that they were hitting a number of different israeli soldiers who were installing surveillance equipment along the border those were actually workers of an electrical company who were hit at the time working operating very near the border at their time hezbollah is also publishing footage from that incident which is quite graphic that shows a civilian falling after he was hit by that missile and then also there was another attack in the manara area this time hitting idf soldiers four were said to be injured that's according to the idf and then also today we had a number of a rockets fired from inside southern lebanon towards northern israeli communities going as far south as khiar bialik near hypha we don't have any reports of injuries from those rockets the idf said that four were intercepted and that the rest landed in open areas but we do know the idf is responding harshly to the source of all of these attacks today so they were striking the areas where both these mortars and missiles were launched and also striking the rocket group that launched these rockets into northern israel for its part it was hamas of the lebanese branch of hamas which took responsibility for those rockets saying they were doing so in solidarity for the group which of course is fighting inside gaza and of course the israeli defense minister was up there yesterday wasn't he mary and he had a stern message for the lebanese that's absolutely right with many warnings coming out from the from the idf from israeli the higher ups in israeli government warning anybody who gets involved here saying that the idf is prepared to respond harshly to any threat coming from its border whether it's in southern lebanon or from syria or from gaza and that the idf is prepared to act on any of these threats that are coming it of course also comes as hasa nasrallah giving yet another speech talking about what he thinks of the affairs for this region and if there's going to be another escalation he's saying that will be due to israeli action they say they're watching very closely what the israelis are doing not just in gaza but here also on this northern border and they're saying that it will be the israelis who will cause this situation to escalate further israel for its part continues to warn that it will act in defense and it will strike at the source of all of the attacks that are coming from southern lebanon and we definitely can hear them continuing to do that launching airstrikes and also shelling a number of different areas they say they're targeting hezbollah compounds infrastructure belonging to the ecterra group and also those groups who are also trying to launch attacks okay mary thank you mary mccullough there in the north of israel well ruth wasmelanda is with me i mean um you've got thousands of israelis citizens you can't go back to their homes um much of the north of israel is a is a literal war zone right now this isn't sustainable is it first of all it's not uh sustainable but we have no choice at the moment but i've said from the beginning of the um events uh iran had decided to uh maneuver this whole macro uh arrangement beginning with the hamas but continuing in the west bank and the northern front by hezbollah um i don't see them not entering a war and quite frankly there is a war if we were not in the gaza strip what the hezbollah is doing is a casus belli par excellence this is uh it has already escalated to a point where there was no question or no questions would have been asked by the idf had there been other circumstances now israel is not happy to go into war with uh with the hezbollah understanding that the damage uh to lebanon would be catastrophic by the way the lebanese themselves and the government in lebanon well understands that as well and says this over and over again publicly to nasrallah and to um the world but nasrallah is uh being told what to do by the iranians and the iranians want um to forward their own objectives not those of the hamas nor those of the hezbollah that are just pawns in their own game um and they look down upon them as well this is the mentality the culture and therefore i don't see any other option but that there will be a war um led by hezbollah against israel all right thank you very well 240 hostages have been held in gaza for 37 days now babies young children teenagers and elderly people are among them last night the defense minister yav galant said he was haunted by their plight israel says there will be no ceasefire until all of the hostages are released well 17-year-old ofir engel was visiting his girlfriend in kibbutz berry when hamas terrorists invaded the village he hid in a safe room for hours with his girlfriend's family he and three others were eventually taken to gaza by the terrorists while ofir's aunt yael engel litchi joins me now thank you yael thank you very much for being with us and tell me when is the last time you or your family heard from ofir hi thank you for letting me speak about ofir and about the situation that's about the nightmare we are going through uh on saturday 7th october six o'clock in the morning ofir called his father yav he's my brother and told him that uh there are alarms and sirens and they have to go to the safe room and they went to the safe room and were in touch with us like every 10 minutes but passing time we understood that something very bad is happening there it's not like usual some sirens and you know when i say like usual it's not usual and it's not normal that people has to live with sirens and bombs yes but then after around half past 12 and they told us by a phone message that they hear alarms in their inside their house they are so afraid and the connection was disconnected and then a few hours later around 7 or 8 o'clock in the evening we got a phone call from his mother girlfriend that told us what happened she told us that around one o'clock a terrorist came inside the safe room took us took them out let them in the kibbutz path took the ofir and the girlfriend's father yossi and another teenager amit put them in a small black car took them away and just let the women and children and girls stay there and that's the last time we heard from him after five days people from the idea came to us and told us ofir is considered adopted and from them we don't know anything my goodness a horrible story we're looking at pictures of ofir and he looks like a very sweet cheeky young man 17 visiting young man he's not a young man he's a child yeah he was his girlfriend first love in berry he's a basketball player he played also near bear sorry near berry the basketball team and with all the family we live in kibbutz and joselem kibbutz ramat rachen and he spent half of the week with her half of the week here with us and i spoke about to feel a lot of times on media but i heard what uh word before me said about chamas and about his bala and about the chamas is not few thousands or few hundreds of thousands of people it's an ideology that wants to uh to finish with the jews to finish with the free world it's all and we want we the families and we the israelis want the world to know that it happened to us now but it will happen everywhere if the world will not stop it and that's what we want to say to the world where did you want to say something absolutely i i have a an actual connection to this particular family because i know i know the grandfather of afil i worked with him in the president's office and what can i say what can anyone say how far can anybody i cannot even imagine what the families must be going through but all of us in in a kind of a state of post trauma how can the world not understand i mean we're talking about babies and children and women and and and grandmother i mean how barbaric how barbaric can can i don't even want to call them people because they're not do you i mean yeah do you i mean are you getting a lot of support do you take some comfort from from the people around you by the people in this country you know how we're all in this together and do you feel some some support no no we don't get comfort from because everyone everyone of us and the whole all of the families and also the families that their loved ones were killed brutally killed and raped and i don't know what i i'm sure people in the world see and i am very troubled by the by the protests and in favor of the Hamas all over the world i don't know how it happened i know there are billions of people in the world that don't see the bigger picture and i think we have to show them the bigger picture and i think they have to know that it happened now in israel in the south of israel but it will happen in new york and in amsterdam and in chicago and everywhere because the Hamas is a very very brutal barbarian ideology that wants to take over the free world and i i continue saying it because it's it's not it cannot be the 34 children and babies are kept in in Gaza i don't know where i don't know there is one yeah please stay with us i want to talk more to you unfortunately right now we have to take a very quick break but i do want to talk to you more about of fear we're going to take a short break stay with us is in a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where you see as our soldiers are fighting on the front lines but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well about you're watching i24 news and before the break we were speaking to yael yael's young nephew of fear of fear engel was kidnapped by Hamas terrorists from kibbutz berry on the 7th of october he's now been held for 37 days along with 238 other hostages babies young children teenagers elderly people among them then you can see his his young face he was just down in kibbutz berry visiting his girlfriend and his aunt yael is with us yael how is our fears mother coping how is she getting through the day so as i as i told before we leave all of us live together in kibbutz so we don't leave them alone for one minute 24 seven we stay with them all the time even at nights i can tell you that the nights and the mornings are the worst this morning i slept there this night i slept there and i woke up from very bad crying with her i don't i don't think anyone can understand the feeling of a mother that her child went to visit his girlfriend and didn't came home didn't come home back and he's there for seven thirty seven days we don't know anything about him we don't know if he's injured if someone's taking care of him it's really a nightmare it's really a nightmare and what i am asking the world and president biden president rote of the dutch people because i don't know if you know but the fear has a dutch nationality and we had a meeting with the prime minister of holland and you ask everyone we can to do anything they can to let them go to let all the 239 people there and go free because children are not a part of any game of any deal of any anything they're just children you know i met a guy that his three children and wife are there in capture and it's not so you cannot imagine what people are going through so i don't know who who who they can talk to i don't know i i hope and believe that the israeli government is doing everything in her power to bring them home but i think the world should understand that you know all this all this talking about humanitarian crisis in gaza i don't want anyone any innocent people wherever he is to to get injured but in israel we have also a humanitarian crisis a very big one so hundreds thousands of people are evacuated from their homes the north of israel the south of israel are war zone a lot of our children saw terrible sites i think it will be take years to to to i don't know if it's an unbearable torture that is being inflicted on on on your family and other families in israel it's really heartbreaking before before we go yeah just tell us tell us a bit more about your nephew we see him hiking there we see he's got a cheeky smile he had his girlfriend of course what kind of what kind of boy is he or fear is a very very smiling boy he love to help everyone he's very modest my daughter is a very the best friend of him and she said to me all the time that when he comes back he will kill all of us and won't stop until we take all his pictures offline because it's not it's not like him it's not it's not like us you know we don't understand how it is to let people go and he's really really sweet boy that's what i can he's a very talented basketball player he likes to work in agriculture also in discos also helping whenever he's needed and he's a high school student a very good one so well he he looks amazing and we please give give our love to our fears mom and we i mean i say this to all the families who are going through this hell we we think you're amazing i don't know how you're how you're going keep going and we really hope and pray that you you'll have your boy back with you soon thank you yale thank you so much thank you bless you thank you all right well uh with vice-mauland is with me in the studio it's uh it's really hard to go on i mean everything else just impossible seems pretty pointless isn't it after that it minimizes everything else puts everything else into perspective it just beyond me how hypocritical some world leaders uh decision makers public opinion uh formers can be um as she said yale there is a humanitarian crisis in israel uh bigger than this country has ever known and it is completely and utterly ignored absolutely all right well we all hope and pray that the hostages are back with their families we're gonna talk a bit more um about uh how israel is fighting this war now and the uh the prime minister benjamin netanyahu gave an interview uh to u.s. media earlier today he's been speaking about his vision for a post hamas gaza he says a civilian government must take responsibility for demilitarization and de radicalization um so roose um in that interview he he kind of outlined the objectives israel will destroy hamas is will make sure israel is safe but then you know the long-term future what will gaza look like after this how can the palestinian people in gaza live in peace side by side with israel so first of all i think that it needs to be made clear that this cannot happen in one day obviously and therefore what i believe that prime minister netanyahu meant was that there needs to be some kind of uh remaining by the idf a military presence uh to make sure that we are not attacked again that we are not killed again that we are not uh basically uh that our civilians are not hurt again that's first of all but of course gaza needs to be somehow uh rebuilt now there are theories i won't mention names but people that have offered for uh abu mazen and the fatah from the west bank it's offered itself hasn't it well actually he uh refused to take the gaza strip in fact uh he said he doesn't want to take responsibility he doesn't definitely doesn't want to deal with demilitarizing uh uh the hamas that's number one he remembers very well that in 2006 when the hamas came into power and we had left the gaza strip fatah operatives were shocked in the knee and thrown out of windows in other words lynched and they ran away those who survived to the idf soldiers to be saved um on the israeli border so he expressed no real wish what he did say is that if we are talking about a comprehensive peace with jerusalem and with blah blah blah a very very big and rosy picture which is not very realistic unfortunately at this precise moment so what he was actually saying is i don't really want this problem on my shoulders he said when there will be this uh peace achieved now the man is 80 something years old so i'm not sure if he was talking about when he will be 110 103 but it's not even a joke to speak about the west bank where hamas is strong as well and the islamic jihad is strong as well and the iranians have been pumping them with money and funding and training for years under abu masan's nose and this certainly cannot take the leadership in gaza what i personally feel needs to be done and it's unusual and it's difficult but this is the only solution which i see is to have four significant responsible world leaders divide the gaza strip into four parts take responsibility over reeducation because the incitement and indoctrination there is atrocious and the rebuilding sustainable sources of income employment opportunities housing etc and give approximately a decade until something will evolve from within society itself but not before okay so we're looking at a a very long-term plan for post hamas gather all right thank you rich well um we've been talking about the international pressure on israel uh to agree to a ceasefire or stop its campaign to destroy hamas and we have seen marches um around european capitals in recent days or a different kind of march is underway in paris today tens of thousands have been marching against antisemitism we have of course seen a spike in antisemitic violence around the world uh eduardo quay is an independent journalist and he joins us now from paris so eduardo far right political leaders attending this rally the far left though choosing to stay away that's right and it's been a debate here in france for the entire week actually it has overshadowed the purpose of the march which was to be a citizens march called by the president of the senate and the president of the national assembly uh to uh to show support for the jewish community which has been suffering from a tremendous number of antisemitic acts since october 7th more than 1200 such acts today's march uh over a hundred thousand people police say the biggest march against antisemitism since the 1980s in paris uh nonetheless uh neither president macron nor jean-luc melanchon the head of the extreme left coalition were present and this is kind of a snapshot of of um life in paris isn't it the the evidence of just how politically devised this conflict has begun in a country that is home not only to europe's largest jewish community but also its largest muslim community uh that's right and so it has caused a very tense situation here in uh france french jews uh say openly that they are afraid uh that they are uh feel insecure uh in an open letter uh in a french newspaper today president macron said that a france where french citizens are scared is not france uh however his absence i think is not something that was very much appreciated by the uh french jewish community and on the other hand as you mentioned there there are about six million muslims and uh this is causing tremendous tension between uh the two communities it is really quite a serious situation here and uh president macron um phoning president herzog today to apparently kind of walk back comments that he made to the bbc yesterday adwardo i'm sorry could you repeat that uh president macron uh made a phone call to president herzog today and and tried to walk back those comments he made to the bbc yesterday yeah well i'm not hearing you well but the president macron has been uh contradictory about this uh situation uh all along he's uh he's not uh been really very clear on the one hand he has supported israel against amas but on the other hand he has also made some comments uh concerning uh the palestinians that have upset israel to one extent he he has lacked in clarity and his absence here today has not helped that all right thanks very much indeed adwardo quay there well uh there was another march uh in london yesterday and according to the metropolitan police some 300 000 people marched to demand israel and its campaign to destroy hamas far right counter protesters also turned out and clashed with police there were dozens of arrests the british prime minister rishisunak has denounced the violence on both sides let's go to london our correspondent jonathan sachardotti uh was going to be with us uh but he is not we'll try and get him for you later in the program with wasma lander is here with me though and we just got a snapshot there of just how tense the situation uh is in paris um a lot of people will be disappointed that president macron chose not to march with people who are opposed to anti-semitism it's not the most controversial thing in the world is it i think that there is a clarity of ethic and clarity of values that um should make a leader different than what had happened 80 years ago at the beginning of the uh world war two and the holocaust and the elimination of and destruction of six million jews and somehow this lesson of leadership seems not to have been learned very disappointing my apologies if it's a little but less than politically correct um but certainly this is a time for real courage and leadership the fact that there are very many muslim voters in france only makes the fact that this is close to coming um and well not even that i mean hundreds of french citizens travel to syria to fight alongside ices france is no stranger to islamist terror terrible i was in paris in 2015 2016 and it was very much terrible a serious situation terrible and there are so many um neighborhoods that police in france in germany in other capitals in europe simply don't go into they do not enter because they are too afraid well let's see what the situation is in london because we saw huge marches against israel's war on hamas yesterday and as i say far right counter protesters also turned out they clashed with police dozens of people were arrested all of this happening on um one of the more um sacred days in the british calendar that is a remembrance day when people pay tribute to fallen british soldiers our jonathan sachardotty is with us now from london and jonathan this was always going to be a highly volatile situation wasn't it coming as it did on remembrance day and it did descend into chaos or that's what it looked like from here anyway the protests yesterday both the pro palestinian one and the anti pro palestinian protest were kept apart by the police but of course i think there was a peak in interest and disapproval politically over what was going on i'm not altogether sure that the remembrance day armistice day element of things really was what lies at the heart of this instead what we had is a home secretary in the government who actually is determined to stamp out what she sees as racism and hatred in those marches regardless of what day they're taking place on i think the fact that it coincided with the remembrance day weekend made it easier for her to do that politically we now have heard that seven people have been charged according to the police many of those arrests made on the day towards the end of the day or after the event 126 arrested 145 had been arrested for various offenses so the numbers moving around a bit and that shows you some way how the police are operating that they're looking for people in the crowds after the event rather than actually intervening when things are going on which is also something else people have criticized the home secretary is now spoken out she's been under fire from politicians within her own party and across the board many are even calling for her to resign because they say that she caused a rift between the government and the police the police did not want to cancel the protests she's now posted on x that our police officers she said deserve thanks of every decent citizen for their professionalism in the face of violence and aggression from protesters and counter protesters in london yesterday but she went on to say that multiple officers were injured doing their duty and that's an outrage then she said that the sick inflammatory and in some cases clearly criminal chance placards and paraphernalia openly on display at the march mark a new low anti-semitism and other forms of racism together with the valorizing of terrorism on such a scale is deeply troubling this can't go on she said week by week the streets of london are being polluted by hate violence and anti-semitism members of the public are being mobbed and intimidated Jewish people in particular feel threatened further action is necessary so she's definitely digging in she's made this something that she's really staking her career on plenty of people still calling for her to go and yet she is adamant that the hatred and anti-semitism that she's identified in those crowds as well as many Jewish people really isn't acceptable in the united kingdom in 2023 there are many in the Jewish community who are thanking her for this firm stand well i mean quite Jonathan and we saw those very large protests on the streets of london and elsewhere and they have become a regular thing now are there any polls which suggest to what extent they are supported by ordinary British people well the polling that i've seen so far actually regarding the conflict is quite interesting because it shows that there is often a split between left and right in traditional terms in terms of support for israel but in fact the interesting aspect here is that it seems to be an age split as well here the most likely sign for being supportive more of the palestinian lines on these matters and the palestinian side of things is in the younger generation and the older people get the more that sympathy shifts towards israel of course it's not a football match it's not a question of supporting one side or the other in fact most people if asked nuanced questions probably will be supportive of the idea of trying to find some sort of solution for the decades old conflict so that both sides could live in peace but we're miles away from that at the moment and the savage invasion of the 7th of october only made that a harder goal to reach so i think there is a realization among many in the country perhaps more than usual with previous engagements with gaza that israel has a very tough job here and maybe people not just in the government are willing to let israel get on with the job in hand all right jonathan thank you very much jonathan such a dotty there and the british government has stripped and exiled egyptian tv host of his visa over his support for hamas the home office put moa taz matar on a watch list which means he'll be unable to return to the uk khaled hasan is the counterterrorism expert and he helped work on the case against matar and he joins us now thank you for being with us khaled tell us who is moa taz matar and was it right for the british government to effectively deport him thank you for having me all right yes it was absolutely the right decision not taz matar should not have been allowed to actually relocate to britain in december 2021 moa taz matar is one of the most prominent radical islamist broadcasters he has a huge following on social media this is how he makes his money social media like his money which is why he's dangerous he can work from different parts of the world very freely and that's why he's very dangerous and that's why this one is exactly exactly the right time although i do hope i do wish that they actually had listened when i raised this summer 2021 and again in 2022 several times but eventually it's it's it's it's late but it's better late than never so is he back in egypt now um and tell us about your role in the case yes so no he cannot go back to egypt because he's actually convicted in egypt for supporting terrorism including the murder of of egyptian military leaders now so he cannot go back to egypt who would actually be put in prison for at least 75 years my role in the case was investigating providing material providing translation as a native arabic speaker as a counter-terrorism expert this is what i did and i have been pushing for this since december 2021 when he first relocated to the uk because under our laws he should not have been allowed due to his support for terrorism unfortunately this is there are questions that we need to raise and this is very dangerous specifically around how he makes his money from social media and i think that is that is why it is dangerous i suspect now he's in turkey on this i suspect he's back in turkey but he cannot make videos from turkey because he's not allowed due to the egyptian Turkish recruitment all right so he's really in a difficult situation so not welcome in the uk not welcome in his native egypt either the british home secretary savannah brahman has made it clear she intends to crack down hard on anti-semitism and any public support for terrorism can we expect further such moves do you think hailed yes absolutely so they are investigating at least six people with a similar background two of them i have raised i believe two of them are basically related to the case a case that i have raised uh with almost an identical background same following on social media and they really invest a lot of money and effort and a lot of a lot of their energy into actually translating material to an english speaking audience and into influencing decision making which is why they're really dangerous i believe a lot of them will be in hiding right now it will be really quiet but the home office is already aware of this counter that are releasing the radio ever been aware of this for months i think it's just a matter of time for a lot of them are actually under the same action and and essentially before it took out of Britain all right well congratulations on your victory khaled thank you very much khaled hassan brahman for your what say if i may say for his bravery this is a moral and ethical clarity and leadership that is just a quite quite astounding yeah all right we'll see if there are more to come all right well the families of the hostages are gathering nightly in Tel Aviv to demand their immediate release men women and children have been held in Gaza for 37 days now our Ariel Levin Weldman is down with the protesters tonight Ariel what's happening i'm going to take a quick look behind me it's dark so it might be difficult but it's not just the families you have an entire nation standing here in grief well over a thousand people clustered into this plaza a very simple set of demands bring back our people and bring them back now it's not just a show of sorrow and there is a lot of that believe me the story is being told here by family members of lives and families shattered by monstrous invaders that showed the utmost cruelty that ripped children from their rooms but it's also demands on the international community that the families believe have utterly abandoned them they say that it is unconsumable non-thinkable that you have the international red cross demanding humanitarian aid for Gaza without anything for the families of the kidnap that the international red cross hasn't even demanded to see the families to see if they're alive demands we've heard from families saying that if you're going to allow international aid through then they have to at least demand and make it conditional on getting access to the hostages and these are just one of a set of demands many people here they expect the cruelty from Israel's enemies they didn't expect indifference from the international community they say it bothers them not just bothers them it burns that not only were there people taken but it's been a plight utterly forgotten by the rest of the world they've blamed the international community the international media they blame the united nations for focusing only on the plight of Gaza at war and spending absolutely no effort and zero time to even come up with a plan to try to bring hostages back or even try to contact them and that's ultimately what this event you're seeing behind me is all about not just an outboring of grief but a demand for some sort of solution and a demand that if the international community won't help then at least Israel put pressure on these agencies to ensure something is done. Ariel, thank you very much. Ariel, every welcome there down with the families of the hostages who have now been held in Gaza for 37 days. Well Ruth, I'll give the last word to you it's like a parallel universe isn't it we've got people marching all around the world very few calls for Hamas to release the hostages 239 people being held in Gaza as we speak. I think that this is an opportunity for the leaders of the world like Macron, like Biden, like the Chancellor of Germany and others, Prime Minister of the UK etc to speak up because again we need them to stand on the right side of history and to stand up to the fact that these civilians must come home. Yeah and it's it's really hard to see people riffing down posters marching demanding a ceasefire it feels like Israelis don't have a lot of compassion from the world we're all people we're all people perhaps those barbarians who had savagely killed our own civilians or not but at the end of the day we're all people and they need to come home the leaders of the world