Hello everybody. If it's Saturday, then it must be time apparently to do another reveal show review and Apparently this is something that's gonna be happening more on the regular now. So how about that? What's up Tom? How you doing buddy? Well friends it strikes me as like There's This would have been like a five-hour show Like yes, they would have went through it quicker at adepticon, but like can you imagine how long this would have been live? Well, all the video clips. Yeah, and then That's saying and then doing questions. Sure. It would have been like a two-hour preview Which is great. Although now we know we're getting this split up into realistically about four parts probably, right? right Because they they were very clear that this today they've now gotten through half of what they intended to show Right they are intentionally drip feeding us sure because Well, you know because of the situation in the world and yada yada. Yeah, of course, right? It makes sense. Honestly, yeah, like I would do it too Right, it's content and it'll and they know it'll hold people's attention and keep people engaged So like I kudos to them absolutely the The reality of this is I think that They don't really have much of a choice like you know They're in a tough spot where they can't actually sell anything right now And so they have to make the most hay and build the most excitement They can for when they're able to hopefully start selling things again. Apparently they can sell, you know KO Gift cards Yeah, absolutely the art for the vouchers was like a little Overlord the rock nor Karajan overlord. Mm-hmm. Yep. I mean obviously every any one of these individually is Is going to be like You know Not as overwhelming as it would have been had we get these had we gotten these as one big show Oh, my gosh, like if we had had this as one big two-hour preview and you got everything here It would feel more impactful and so, you know, like I've seen some people saying like oh, you know I it's not enough in any one of these like I get it. I get it that I'm sympathetic by the way I'm all orange because I'm working on seraphon. I'm taking this amount of time we spend doing the show off from dutifully working on my seraphon but anyway the the Point is is I think that like we're still getting some cool stuff in every one and honestly We got the thing I wanted in this show to a point You mean you didn't want you didn't want Actual models the Blood Bowl tree man is obviously what I'm talking about Tom. We got the models. No, of course. I'm yes No, it's the it's the Giants, but that's okay. We still got some stuff Tom I'll now shall we flip over and go through it and talk about some general stuff? Let's let's let's let's hit some reactions. Yeah, let's actually do what this is supposed to be about cool All right, so I'm gonna scroll back to the beginning. I am in the light of the luminous reveal Yeah, so I am bathed in light. So you're just gonna have to deal with it today folks. He is yes He's very bright right now. That's as that's as dim as we could get him And and so to answer some questions coming fast and furious in the in the in the chat Yes, I have seen the rumor engine matches on Twitter And yeah, a lot of the rumor engines were the things that we had originally said could be Giants were Giants So this is actually a really cool I've got what I've got up on the screen right now is we'll start with the luminous start collecting box, right? Yes So obviously you get five of the horsey dudes ten of the spear dudes and the light of El Tharian As well as the cards the little special luminous three inch ruler the luminous dice your standard tokens The light of El Tharian, there's your commander guy. This guy actually like I'll tell you what In close-up. This dude looks really good. Which one the Falcon guy the commander with the lantern of the spear Yeah, like that guy looks really good and close. Well, see here's a funny thing. This is an alternate. This is an alternate thing for him Okay, oh you went back and looked at the unit and it was because because you said this guy and I would oh, yeah the guy with the Falcon the reason why I say that the guy with the Falcon is because The other one that we've seen is a guy with Falcon, right? Yeah, and there's only nine Unit here, right? No, like he the other one we have the alternate skulls or you know the other bits He's releasing a Falcon. He doesn't he's not pointing sword gotcha And so actually like it's funny like Surprise, there's another alternate skull, you know, like there's other bits for this and I think it's a female, but yes I it's kind of hard to tell lock in armor, so I'm not sure but anyway It's cool. Cool. Many like I said the basic troops of this army, you know, they look good Man, I am not looking forward to paint all that hair. It's a well There's a lot of there's a lot of mohawks of varying varieties, right? Yeah Everybody in the everybody in the mortal realms loves their mohawks So, I mean, let's talk about this box Tom It also obviously comes with it's the big realm lords box much like what we got with the sisters of battle the end of last Year, it does come with the limited edition Battle tome as well. That's not in the in the little cycling images here, but it's in there We'll talk about the rule thing we saw in a moment But it's probably if it's priced similarly for those interested if it's priced similarly to the sisters of battle You're looking at like 210 is probably where it'll sit Somewhere in there. This is about a one was 210 retail us. Yeah, right, right Although I don't know like how many authorians you need So like multi buying this box probably not the best idea Well, that's there's a big question there. So let's talk about big light of al-tharian here our ghost armor, right? The the easy assumption is that either he is a special character, right? And he's unique because they said that it's the sort of it is the spirit of this guy reincarnated right to some degree Well, they said it's so from the video. They actually spelled out exactly what he is. He's like a shard of light of the original spirit, right? So I will get the exact wording as we're going sure so the the question is Is this guy a actual special character or is he a spirit of derthu, right? Because you could easily see the light of al-tharian being a spirit of derthu where like it's not as my character I just inherited the name and the kind of you know concepts and stuff like that It's an angel from a shattered world restored to heish and returned to us as an incorporeal shard of light Yeah, there you go I mean somebody had said so just answer comment I'd be mad if al-tharian is only in this box. I don't believe so like nothing. They said implied that This box was going to be the only way to get this stuff and as a point of fact With a comparison with the sisters of battle all of that stuff did release afterwards Now there was a delay and the release and they said here that this box comes first like it'll be available first Right, and then there's some delay of X number of weeks. Who knows one week two weeks three weeks. Who knows maybe longer and And then you got you know all the stuff parted out individually because when they build these big gift boxes It's not like an army box necessarily right like these are literally them combining the all of the individual stuff Into a specific packaging that they special right like it's just a separate process than the army boxes, right? You're saying is ever then the dual boxes Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. Yes Because of the nature of how they have to put books and and all the different tokens and stuff in there that come from different sources I will say this if al-tharian is not is not unique. I really hope he has alternate poses Uh-huh, I doubt it. I'll tell you right now I doubt it because this like ghost armor only is gonna fit together in one way one way And like that's not like I would hope he is unique because otherwise he's gonna look really dumb out there well To be fair, it's a great scope. Don't like when I say dumb I'm just saying it'll be really funny to have like a bunch of these near each other and all of them look identical Sure, to be fair most people's spirit of derthus if they ever put multiple on the table look exactly the same as well So But there's also just a valid question of like how expensive is this guy, right? I don't mean in monetary cost I mean in like points and does he make sense in the army you get the sense from the starter box Just the number of minis here like when we and we look at this box Sorry, I flipped around too far there We go when you look at this box and you think that like okay, you've got 16 minis in here yeah, right and Assumingly the you know this box is supposed to get you well on your way to actually starting the army Certainly the sisters of battle battle force box. Yeah did that like it had a lot of you know Honestly, I mean had more figs than this. Yeah, right and So one good sorry, so he asked they heard my call The So so one assumes that your prediction of this army being probably fairly elite. Yeah, not wrong The feeling I would get from it just given the way they fight and the phalanxy nature and the sort of nature of the thing as Traditional elves tells me that I would expect it to not be hyper elite So let's we're not talking maybe like ogres or or stormcast or something up in that range But probably more along the line of fireshires. You're was it? No, I don't know I think they still have wait firesayers even now still have too many bodies on the table I was gonna say it's probably more along the line of Your bone daddies of your your aciyak bone reapers, right? Where when you look at a bone reapers army, it's often one big ish block of infantry a couple other blocks of infantry Or and a block of cavalry, right? It's the OBR are meant to be this sort of You know tactical phalanx fighting, you know strategic combined arms military force One would imagine these are the good version that play very similar, right? Where you've got maybe a big ish block of spearmen Supported by a couple small blocks of supporting archers a block of cav to run around the side and then a lot of characters So Anthony suggested he said 140 for the spears 200 for the cav 180 for the hero I'm calling 300 for the hero. Wow. You think Altharion light of Altharion is gonna be that big. I do. I do I think he's gonna be Super punchy and he's gonna be weighty and I suspect that he is gonna be really hard to kill Like it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me if he if he basically just responds every turn Oh, that could be interesting. Yeah, if you can keep coming back Sure, because it makes sense that he would have a rule to like come back to play Nothing right green my dish, you know, like sure sure He is very much the modern green night. I hadn't made that connection before but yes The sort of ghostly spirit in a suit of armor, right?  So if you're if you're thinking I think along the lines of the bone daddies You're probably in the right space because one imagines the elven heroes are also you know Expensive that is to say like they'll be they'll be impactful to the table So they'll carry a premium cost and when you think about the bone daddy heroes all being around 200 points effectively Let's just call it like most bone daddy heroes are 200 points outside of the outside of Krakatoa himself, right? Oh, sorry, Anthony. I was making the bet. I thought that I Thought that El Torre on his own was gonna cost $50 and it realized you're trying to bet me that that's what the cost of the units we're just gonna be Hey, I think you just accepted the bet. I wrote in the chat. So the money's not the money's on the table now So you you guessed 300 Anthony guessed what I'm sorry. He said 140 one 181 180 okay, so we're not gonna use prices right rules because that would be cheating So it's just gonna be who is mathematically the closest. I will arbitrate this when it comes out Okay, sure Other interesting things the caver on the normal 60 by 35 base that the heroes are sorry the heroes the Exactly the troops are clearly on the 32s You can see it absolutely in comparison because we know the normal calf base what it looks like its size That's 35 millicross and then heaven prepared 32 there you go heaven forbid that those calves on 90s like that Which would mean that those elves are on 40s. Yeah, that's not the case. They're not on 90s It would be it'd be so obviously immediately noticeable, right, right? Yeah, so The The I think the It's I'm glad to see that I am a hundred percent glad to see that I know About the difference the impactful difference between 25 and 32s I'll tell you right now if I can snap my fingers and get rid of most 25s in the game.  I Know if they could wait a magic one here. Don't look like one inch reach it stuff. No, that's absolutely true I I'm willing to bet if they had it all to do over again The in the moved arounds they would have eliminated 25 from the range and use 28 and 32s or and honestly put most things on 28s You know, it just feels like other than the tiniest weediest troops. Nothing should be on 25s. So but anyway Neither here nor there. Let's talk about the dice Can we talk about the fact that this is like one of the first and most usable set of army dice ever the Elves cheat everywhere They even get usable dice. How about that? It's true. It's true. Those are just dice Yeah, they are with a number on this with it. Sorry with a symbol on the six because you can see the one Well, actually when I was thinking about buying the set I'm like, maybe I'll get two of these boxes and in fact, I put it in a pre-order I Maybe I'll get two of these boxes because I can actually use the dice I like combat gauges and I get two of the combat gauges. Sure. And And most of the rest of the troops are just, you know usable. Yeah, so So we saw some other stuff in here that they didn't that's in the video I don't have the little screenshots We can flip over to you in a minute and look at those because then we saw like a little bit of the spell lures It looks like there's three spell lures And so, you know, great. I just want to say kudos GW for making Honestly usable dice. You can see some fun stuff here from the tokens They get their own nine-inch lots of different markers and stuff like that They have all these different little tokens Which I assume is going to be for them using various kinds of empowerment and whatever as well as our little mountain token And then let's talk lightning reactions, buddy So we all wondered how are the elves going to capture that classic always strike first speed? This was the big question and here is the answer I'm glad to see that they answered our most pressing question So when during the combat phase when it's your turn to pick a unit to fight you can pick two eligible units Instead of one if you do so each of those units can fight one after the other in the order of your choice Love it. Love it. I mean that in an enemy turn in a set of activations Like even in an enemy turn normally they'll activate once and you'll beat them to the punch on Numbers of activations sure. Yeah. Yeah, and on your own turn you can activate four units before they can activate one On your own turn. Oh, I'm sorry. You can activate four units before they activate to yeah, there we go Okay. Yes. Now your math works.  Yeah, no, no No, and so before they get to activations, you'll do first and you'll do a third You'll do your one and two then they'll do one then you'll do your three and four and then they'll do two now realistically of course You know, it's probably given if our predictions about the size of this army are correct Yeah, yeah, it'll actually be very rare to have four units in combat, right? Sure. Sure But I think this is a great rule. This is a nice interpretation of this. This is very clever design I know whenever I see stuff like this where the rules designers kind of used the existing Design space but got very clever with it. I always smile a little bit and I like this. This is very elegant It has a nice phrasing to it. It makes easy sense It's super like super readable anybody new picking this up is just gonna be like, oh, okay I get this, you know once you understand the basic rules. This is a natural extension of it reading it It's one of those things that Blows my mind we haven't already done yet. Yeah, you know, it just feels so Like it's always existed so natural as an extension of the base rule set Yeah, it's great. It's cool rule Okay, I'll flip back over to you Tom here for a moment Do you want to talk about the the things we we captured on our screen grabs because we did get some little bitty hints of things Yes, although I'm not sure where it went That's okay. Well, you're looking effectively. It looked like they had three spell lores, which is cool and You know, there's there's army the whole shot whole box army image. Yep I haven't done too much work as to looking at the tokens and figuring out what's what sure But the tokens seem to correspond to certain helmets Yeah, one would assume it's you know, either a stance based or to mark the various buffs You can probably hand out to the units again. They seem like a fairly organized combined arms for arms of force. So But this is obviously what jumped out you have the lore of Zay track and then you have Zay tracks something, right? Right, and then Elias something Well, that one looks like an do you think that the Iliath is an artifact? Look at the the so look at the the flavor text lore of whatever, right? The caster causes blah blah blah, which is often how spell stuff starts, right? And then Zay track whatever is gonna be a command trait or something like that because it says this wizard This see how it says this general Yeah, okay, this is a command trait and then Iliath whatever whatever this Finally is bond healthy. Okay, so that's an artifact and this one's probably an artifact as well because it says are two Yeah, right. Yeah, so so maybe they have one spell lore, but we're getting you know You're getting the full cards for kind of everything here, right? So what I'm hearing is that? We may like everybody may be wizards In this army, so yeah, so these aren't all spell ores, but we may be looking at like I suspect that these like this is a track is Associated with the spirit of fire and So you get that played out in these cards and then Iliath is some other spirit Okay, and so then this is a little represent I would suspect the four different subcultures is what I'm guessing could be yeah It's a question of how much like there are very magical race as you said there's a rumor They're all wizards so one would assume that there's going to be at least a couple different lures and You know a couple different ways to make everybody feel magical One would also assume and I think the command trait spells this out is that wizard generals Right is going to be a yeah It's gonna be a big part of what they're all about because if you look at it this wizard So clearly the flavor text is saying here's a command trait for wizards, right? So probably that's your command trait for some kind of group of wizard people because those are often divided by type, right? Yeah, and then this general So they're clearly gonna magic Buffy stuff. Can I can I extrapolate something for us sure look at the box contents? Which wizard is that trait for for that car that comes to the box? I Mean delight of El Tharian who's probably a wizard Probably Maybe unless they do something similar to OBR sure or or or none of these because it doesn't matter You're just getting all the cards for the book, right? I mean, it doesn't have to necessarily match up to to what could be here and And and you know Martin had said there's no fire in the in the four lures And as Lumineth mage points out and I agree with like if this if the zenith is part of it, right? Yeah, then Xenith could also imply a more fiery like or have Is it's about like sun and moon? Yeah, sure. Yep. So if you've got the Sun stuff going on Yes, that is a lot of cards That's a big old assuming that's a real picture of the stack of cards, which obviously they've all been photoshopped together But like that is a big stack of cards. Well, and what I've makes me wonder is like it that doesn't those aren't No seem to be your We're gonna get not just spell cards, but also command traits artifacts all that stuff is gonna get cards in this in the box In the box which tells me that they've discovered. There's another product they can sell, right? And it just makes me wonder Like are the war scroll cards gonna come in a separate box? Like are you gonna have to buy a war scroll card separately because they're not pictured here. I Thought they mentioned it in the video that the war But they're just not in this group shot, but who knows right? Well, they're not many of the shots I like I went through and looked at all the all the stuff and I couldn't find it a single war scroll card represented So who knows? Yeah, they did mention it in the pre chat, but who knows that's just like That's the promotional video. It's hard to say Yep. Yeah, uh, so at any rate. Yeah, luminous look good man. I'm excited I think this is uh, this is a cool cool way to to push it out Obviously, I think they saw, you know, if you look from like a business tactical perspective Yeah, they saw an overwhelming success with the sisters of battle box And I think they see a similar opportunity here because there are a lot of people who are pretty Ready and excited for this Army release, right? So this isn't the kind of thing. I think you'll see Regularly like every army that comes out But I think this is the kind of thing where they think that it would have traction And it's worth doing this special product for because obviously this does have an extra cost to them as well They've got to go run the special box do the extra there's extra processing for for packaging all this together Like there's extra stuff that has to happen here. So no, totally right cool All right, let's jump back over here. So, uh, cool stuff from everything luminous, uh, like the box good call Uh, next up we had these little word bearer guys from 40k from horse. I shouldn't say 40k 30k From horse heresy. These guys look really good. These are cool models Like they just do a good job with these sculpts. Those look really impressive They've made it before the space reform It really is true. Like these dudes, let me tell you a little thing. I love about these guys I mean, I know this we're not really here to talk about 40k, but there is a small thing on here. I really liked the chaos obviously often has a lot of Like brocade pattern around their armor plates their enamel armor plates, right? This is a very chaos stylization throughout all of chaos Uh, this one is really elegantly done. You notice all the different little forms and symbols like the shapes to it How it has all these different curves It's just a really masterful interpretation of this as opposed to just being a band as they often are Right, so it just I really impressed me the the quality of those sculpts. So I dig it Uh, we got a little blood bowl tree man, which I think is cool So here we can scroll through both of them one is for the halflings and one is for the the wood elves in blood bowl I don't play blood bowl, but it's a good uh reimagination of the old school Uh tree man that used to to be there in in blood bowl. So yeah Great stuff. I like the squirrel. I want the squirrel. He's cute. Oh, he's very cute. Yes this guy up on his this dude up here with his with his Zaykorn he looks he looks like he's about ready to rush to like he's trying to match what's going on right where he's Zaykorn I love that these are monopos Okay, so like if you do the little swiping up and down Yep, you actually see that the like the two things that are in the leaves are identical So these two models were the same core model. Yeah, they have different bits built out on.  Sure. I'll talk about that. Absolutely Uh, we had some more Lord of the Rings stuff keeping that coming with these two the two Ranger guys That we saw in the movie or whatever who were there with Faramir So my stuff big quest book where you can go through the whole movie So really cool got some of our our little previews for the For the various Story forage animated stuff. Yeah Nice fighting a high fleet. It's scary Yeah, it's it's like super super Super bsg shaky cam. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah Yeah, the zoom battle star galactica truly set the Well, I should say just battle star galactica serenity did it too. All right. I'm firefly. Sorry. Yeah Both firefly and battle star galactica really did that like ship in space shaky zoom in You know onto the ship and it became just this This standard marker for how you do ships in space, right? Yeah It's aesthetic and so it's just so funny like I was watching and I'm just like I feel like I'm watching am I watching bsg I think I'm watching bsg. Sure. Sure Uh, well, I it would bsg would have been a much different show if they had fought a giant floating space creature that you know could A living spaceship Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep All right, uh Next up we got the reveal that we that we wanted Sort of the reveal you wanted Sort of we we all wanted this only we all wanted this Forget you can see as I've already watched the video again. I'm actually going to go ahead and let this play I'll mute it so we can we can pause because uh, so it's not talking over us Uh, the relevant part is right here because they're nice enough. We'll just go full screen on that for a moment I have like I have all this screen grabbed in zoom if you if you want like a pretty We'll go that way. We'll go that way. I'll I'll get out of full screen. So my head's not over it We'll just let this play while we talk So obviously we have Three new sort of giant kits here or three new I shouldn't say kits because that means that implies three different boxes or skews And that's not what I'm implying. We have three different war scrolls here. Yes, I think it'll be three different kits Uh, yeah, they they kind of hedged on that a little in the talk afterward Uh, so yeah, we've got the gate breaker the war stomper and the kraken eater and they um They did seem to say because because uh, eddie said something about You know these new kits and and new options like he kind of hedged himself real quick after he said Which tells me that we'll bring tom back up yours and we watch that And this is just a giant tease. You're not wrong there You're not wrong there. It's a giant tease. Yeah, both of those words are very impactful So the kraken eaters obviously are more aquatic giant the war stomper the guy on the right and then the siege breaker They do with the tree um When you look at the Video obviously it's cartoony and fabley and so there are there any giant Frames that I can pull up as well so, uh My hope is that this is a new kit and they are legitimately bigger Yeah, yeah No, I totally agree like well and so to support that let me go to the last frame Um, that would suggest they're bigger now Sure, but again because they did this That bigger no obviously like that that's a storm cast running away. That's barely coming up to that giant's toe I would love it if they were legit this size if they were two feet tall You know, I'm in for that homie. Yeah, they're it's a forge world release surprise folks It's a size of a knife. Exactly. They're all they're all thundershot gunships. Yeah, exactly um and the the The question is we could get this in a few different ways, right? So yeah, let's go back to the group image You know, these guys do still have certainly some some markers and similarities to the existing giants and so What I hope is that These that we do get at least one new giant kit if honestly this whole army Was one kit Okay, that had a really big range of options and how you could assemble it I would be fine with that I I love imperial knights and that army is ostensibly for a long time at least Was built off of one box. Now, obviously they added the dominance class. So became two stars. I would love if it's three kits And each of these is its own kit with like three wash rolls of buildout options. Sure.  So you do like a big aquatic theme giants or a big like siege breaker city giants Yeah, I don't know the other question is whether or not we get because there's another there's another more potential option that's in here we should talk about the Giant kit as it exists is quite modular Right. It does and it has a lot of heads. It has a lot of heads. It has a lot of feet It has different hands tons of different weapons. Like it is Famously one of the most versatile kits that's ever been made, right? Right, right So because of that extreme modularity on the giant kit Yeah, it is entirely possible that some of these That they could do some of these giants solely by releasing Option packs for the existing giants. Sure. Sure, right now. I would be Very very Very sad if that's all we got. I can't imagine that's that's how they would do this I really can't it would make me so sad If we just got like some new bearded heads with some hanging offy bits that look ship a naveli for the giant And that makes them a kraken eater and a different, you know, middle tabard that looks like a gate and stuff for the siege breaker Yeah That would that would make me so sad Because I want new big giants. I don't mind that the ill-guzzled Gargant stays in this range. It absolutely should classic Can I offer some uh something to consider? Sure um I know that we talked about how like the storm cast it was unlikely given the scale But like even here look at the scale of the port call us Sure And or the scale of the the guys that are in the in the kraken eater Like the one that's falling out of his arms and the one that's in his arms Like we may have a very large kit here I look man. I really hope so and and and let me say this the Somebody mentioned it would be weird if it was out of scale with the original Giant, I don't think it would be like these are bigger giants. We have bone Yeah From forgeworld that are already like two times the height currently of the normal giant exactly the the the bone grinder giants a different size The cast gargants a different size. There's there's already multiple giant kids Count the forgeworld stuff in arguably these are the sons of bahama. These aren't ill guzzlers Ill guzzlers could arguably be bastardizations of true giants. Yeah So I would really love to see this new giant like the problem with the giant kid as it exists is he is Tiny now by comparison to what monsters are Right. He it's a great sculpt. Don't get me wrong. I love the thing. I've painted a ton of them But he is a baby Compared to what's out now Catacross is basically the same size as him Yep. Yep. Okay It's true Uh, that's a problem if your giant is the same size as just basically an armored dude I would also point out that the current base For the ill guzzler gargant giant Yeah Is seriously like the 92 or 90 mil cav base Yeah That's not big folks Like that's that's drakoth base You know, he's just not up to snuff with what a giant means in The in the modern world of our new kits, right? Right everything Towers over the giants now Because because again the scale has just changed that giant was released back in the early 2000s And he was he was a a hallmark for the time Yeah, and I'm and great and I I do want him to still be in the army Right. Yep. He is a good kit. It's a classic. It does come with a lot of good bits And you know, somebody mentioned then you're paying a lot of money for bits. You're not using. Yeah, that's amazing That's awesome. It's great to have all that extra bits because then you've got options Everybody's giants can be different and by the way, those giant bits have been endlessly useful to me like I use them all over the place and uh The you know, when you build an imperial knight, you have a ton of extra stuff. You don't use and it's fantastic Right. Like wind input. That's never I love having extra stuff in the box. That's wonderful So, uh, yeah, wargaming dad just pointed out look at the black coach, right the scale change on that to actually scale it up to Appropriate for what it's supposed to be was massive Yeah, right And so my honest answer is Here's what I want out of this army. I want imperial knights Okay in number and I'll I'll accept cost and size So to put that in perspective the imperial knight kit the standard imperial knight kit is like 157 dollars or something us Something like that. That's the canis rex kit now that that's replaced to the old knight kit, right? So it comes with the the cockpit and the guy inside and stuff like that, but you don't have to use And it comes with obviously both of the many many different builds of the standard imperial knight of that class Uh, because you have all sorts of different weapon options, you know palette in and all this kind of different thing And uh, then the dominus class has is individual boxes, right? You have you have two different dominus class kits, which are individual and they're basically the same price Although they're slightly Just tiny um I would love it if we got two that my perfect release for this. I'll I'll be honest with you is Uh, two new kits Right one that's clearly the more character focused kit and you have the options to build out the different characters And that sort of takes the dominus Knight place right where it's your your character class guy And something like that and there he's pretty big. He's he should they these guys should be Somewhere in the range of eight to ten inches tall At least Boo, I think they should be 12. I would I would love it. I'm just saying like They don't often do 12 inch tall miniatures Okay, even archie on Barely crests that number. I know from from yeah, I'm just saying like that's to put that in perspective Yeah um You know, that's that's a really tall kit So, I know at if they were 10 inches tall They would tower over most stuff in the realms. They would be taller for example than like a star drake walking around They would tower over the greater demons Right who are all in about the sort of eight inch ish range off of there from foot to sort of top ahead Yep. Yeah, I would rather as I I agree with david cambell. I'd rather there be three kits not two and then each kit is specialized to the type of of of giant that is And you have the version of that and you have a character version of that within each kit And so what you end up getting is like you end up getting across the Giants you get three boxes Maybe six war scrolls and then amongst the giants and the characters There's maybe two to three weapon buildouts for each of the war scrolls. Sure So, I mean it's it's a question of Obviously, we saw the ship parts. You see I like the guy falling by the way. We didn't mention him But he's really funny off of the with the kraken. Oh, did you okay? I didn't hear you mention that part Let's not talk about scale and I said, you know, like I don't know if that helps with scale or not So let's let's look at each of these giants at what we know, right? Yep. Okay. So here's our art piece for the kraken giant Yep, eating a big octopus and treasure chest and things. Yep and a guy And a guy right here Yeah, uh treasure chest Uh We also see his eyes are weird He's very misshapen. It reminds me like the femorians Um We when we jump over we get a another glimpse of it in the background in the watermark Yep. Yep. You guys see that real well, uh, and we see the misshapen eyes again Sure. Gragly beard. It looks like he's holding a boat Uh, yes Tom I need you to talk for a moment. I'm sorry. My wife is is apparently needing something as an emergency I'll be right back. Please keep talking. Let's talk about giants. I'm gonna look out through the walk for all these so we have this We have the the boat planking here on the side I'm calling this as uh, like this is probably Like I'm wondering like imagine if this was a luminous portion of a boat. I don't know that it is or not But um, again, we could see 10 to 12 inch kits is what I would say That's for the kraken stomper Or the kraken chomper kraken eater. Sorry and then for the war stomper We got a foot with a dude and so like again the scale very similar. We have a huge foot We see the armor plates Nailed to his shin guard or the wood plates nailed to the shin guard Not unlike what we see in the bone grinder giant or the old if you for those who remember the siege giant from Uh, Forge world years and years and years ago. It's part of the um, the chaos dwarf line Um, they had a very similar situation of like a heavily armored giant So we see some of that with some of their those The stomper, uh, we see more of like the hair So when we go in we see the more of the big ears and big nose like the goofy look for the stomper one We see the hair as you would expect From the more like wildish ones. I can't really tell much on the torso Um down here, but there's obviously some stuff going on down here um So that's the war stomper and then finally we have the uh, the gate breaker Um, and we see him breaking through Uh a gate, uh, I though the screen capture here was captured earlier in the image We end up seeing like a little hurricane ball fall right here in that image so um And then finally, uh, we this is the one we pulled off the end The exhortation to be good Little ones to be good because they're coming We obviously see a huge tower here. I don't know if this is supposed to be the lumenath back here Right because it has the little two danglies from the the new lumenath model the one captain of the spearman Um, so I think that that's what that is is a lumenath. Uh, these the rest of these are obviously storm cast um And what else uh, and then finally in the last image we see in in art depiction of the three again Here we see the um, the kraken, uh, the kraken eater Uh, here we see The I would guess this is the siege breaker because this is the image that we saw obviously for the stomper And here's the siege breaker. He's looking a little bit crazy in the shovel Again, there's some more stuff going on down here, but we just don't have as much clear lines down there So i'm really excited for this release. Um, I had heard through the rumor mill that this may be our first gold faction um, and what I mean by that is um, this may be our first faction that can be picked up As uh part of a by other allegiances. So good, um So this uh, so Potentially order chaos and destruction Uh, and death who knows if that's actually true or not Um, we'll have yet to see if that's in fact the case It would be interesting if there are mercenary rules baked into these units So like we've seen mercenaries get played out and there was like grugs brothers Back in the most recent ghp. It'd be interesting to see if something like that gets imported into these war scrolls themselves Um, yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Um, I'm interested to see kind of where they go with the design and development of these Um, I'm really excited. I'm probably not going to make one of these armies, but I love that they exist Um, they're super flavorful. They're really interesting. Um, I like the unique aesthetics I think it'd be fun to do like an army of um crack and eaters or whatever um to really kind of play with some of the aesthetics that we see and Um, I didn't have deacon Um, I love kind of the sea water aesthetics and so it would be fun I think that they there'd be a lot of opportunity with uh, With the crack and eaters for me personally, but who knows? Hey, what's up, man? I'm back. All right, great good Yeah, cool stuff. I'm excited about this. I want to see the models show us the models Can we get the models please? Thank you. Uh, do you think you'll we'll get them? Next week or in two or two weeks or in four or in three weeks Who knows? I mean they split up the luminous and did it back to back. So one would certainly hope like I really want to see these models, man. Like I want this question answered So badly of what are these new kits? How big are they? This is what I've been waiting on for so long since we got that that initial spoiler like Again, I can't explain how how much I love the idea of a giant army So well and to be clear like Keith Reimer said a mercenary giants. Well, that would be amazing You can do that right now Yeah, there is a mercenary giant crew already. Yep. Yeah. Yeah grunts brothers Like you can already do that right now in any game. You can add giants Yeah, so problem with giants right now has nothing to do with their availability as mercenaries are to be used It's they they have a bad rule and I can only hope that like the other Every one of these giants doesn't seem to have being drunk as a feature of its uh, it's things So hopefully it's not falling over like idiots and being worthless Right, right So I'm excited. Um, I'm excited for these to exist. I don't know like I'm not interested in this, but who knows You know, if I can buy a book and three of these kits and have an army Uh, I might do that Sure. I mean if it's and yeah, this is a destruction battle tone. So um Yeah, but even though it's a destruction battle tone, that's fine That doesn't mean that they these guys don't have a natural natural rules for importing them in Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. They could they could function like that I I I mean I would very much, uh, like to see That we get those, you know, the new kits two or three That we get cool rules for making heroes out of all these it makes sense Any giant could be the hero like and when you've got a kit like that and that's kind of how the imperial knights work You can just sort of you kind of nominate somebody to be to them to become heroes, right? And in the same way we've seen like the skank on stegadon become a hero or the steam tank commander become a hero Right where we have the existing model and now it's a hero, right? Um, and when you when it's a one to one kit, it's not that you don't have the problem of the, uh Uh, plus coil of light lords where you know to get the hero you've got to buy the kit that having extra odd man out Here it would just be it's just one to one, right? So who cares? Yeah make them make them all have the hero options as well Yeah, that's what i'm looking forward to like I said, uh, which one of like so if you were if they release this and let's imagine a World where like each box have like a certain rate like a certain type of giant and the hero bits to build them out Yeah Are you doing an army of all the types or are you going to double down on one of them? Like it's one of the aesthetics more interesting than another to you. No, I like all three ideas You do. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, 100 i'm in for for any of these guys. I I you know Obviously they still have kind of the Flappy thin arm pop belly aesthetic, which is Not my favorite thing, but uh, you can change that so you like muscular giants. We know that I do I want to see I want to see some ripped giants Absolutely Put on that like these guys need to get storm cast strong. That's all i'm saying so Well, maybe the the gate breaker guy is is your is your like because we can't see a belly on him Like he seems more he seems more pop belly-ish, but not what I can't see abs That's what I can't see. I don't see any ab definition in this fable Maybe it's just the graphics. Uh, they need to start doing some crunches. That's all i'm saying Sure, sure, so Uh, how will they work for objectives? Uh, that remains to be seen, uh You know There was a rumor that they could boot objectives around the table Right that they'll they'll sort of that they'll have the power to actually move objectives Which would be yeah Yeah, they don't need to claim like them claiming objectives is them claiming objectives, right? Like they literally pick up whatever this thing is and move it around the board. Yes Yeah, a meteor falls. That's not a problem, right? They don't need to sit there by it. They'll just take it and leave So yeah, they'll go bring it back to their friends Look they've the the the giants that we have here are the fat max season of it's always sunny in philadelphia I want to see the later season where you know, they've built the they've built the marble. Okay now.  I don't know start doing the thing with the wippy ropes Flipping tires do what batman did We just need to ask Ben Affleck. Um Yeah, I'm excited. That's fine. Sure. Uh Yeah, we'll we'll more on. I hope we see more on giants in the next previews What I said earlier, um, I don't know if you heard like I could see myself doing the kraken eaters Like if you can do an all like aquatic one, I think that would be I mean i'm i'm in for this army in whatever form it takes as long as it's not a total letdown Uh, so there you go Sure, uh, okay. So then our other stuff just to wrap up is this Dam damon effuge I don't know how to say that thing. They said it like 50 times and it didn't stay in my head No, I never read this originally. It looks cool though. I like the art. It looks really neat apparently it's like a graphic novel and uh This this was not a thing I was ever into I never like when I Uh With this came out 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, uh I collected minis and didn't really go on the internet for anything warhammer related, right? So I had no idea that and I didn't I didn't know this was a thing But there's a graphic novel and plus I've never read like any of the novels or short stories to be honest of of anything So, uh, would not be are you gonna watch any of the uh animations? Yeah, sure totally. Yes, absolutely I didn't read game of thrones, but I watched the show, you know Yeah Yes, absolutely. Uh, and then here's the two minis there for this. I like these these look really great I like the the The main girl herself and uh, and then the her her harlequin bodyguard I see a wonderful, uh realm lord Lumineth hero there. Mm-hmm. That's what I see He very much is uh, they they even mentioned in the In the show they talked about how they expect people to do a lot of bit swapping with the lumeneth And integrate in like eldar bits and and other things like that So clearly they know that people are going to be on board to customize these armies and and again That's always the type of thing they've encouraged, right? They've never been again that kind of thing always always make your armies your own, so Uh, yeah cool stuff And uh, and that's basically it like it's part of the new psychic awakening thing We have another preview coming as as they mentioned. I'll go back to tom if you're back on your camera here And there we go Uh that the um That this is only half of what they were going to do during adept con so we're really Really just draw it out. So, okay That's fine. Keep drawing it out. I'm fine. I'll I'll keep watching You keep putting it up keep showing us some stuff and uh, we'll see how it goes Yeah, as mark wrote marco roga has observed that the quote was we have another warhammer preview We have another warhammer preview for you In the chamber. Yeah in the chamber. It could be a storm gash related. So sure Uh And yes attack on somebody mentioned attack on titan and yes Attack on titan is a good that that'd be a good size giant I wouldn't mind that at all if you know people were could run around on them We can go full on shadow of the colossus if we really want i'm fine with it Uh I the the bigger the better like if we if we ended up getting a new giant kit where they were that tall I would be super down for it But the reality is the imperial knights aren't that big Yeah, right if they're imperial knight size, I mean given imperial knights are more wide than tall, right? But still, yeah Uh, like I said if if they're in the eight to ten inch range then that feels appropriate because the current giant is just He's a weedy little dude. He's too small. He's he's just a big ogre Yeah, I mean I don't know what else to say. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm like, what do I do with this guy? Sure Yeah, he's like a run and like what do you do with that? Yeah, I mean I've talked before about the army of of giants that I built using a lot of different giant kits from around the The miniature world not just the games workshop giants. I have several of those in there but you know Almost every other giant produced by any other manufacturer that I have in that army is significantly bigger Right. Yeah, not small Not not even a small difference significantly bigger in both girth and height right Yeah, so and and both matter so, uh In the end, I'm kind of yes, it's Like drawing this all out is whatever But I like having more christmas is to look forward to it's exciting. We know we're all stuck in here basically a lot of the world is You know sheltering for the next month uh as we as we sort of write out the current world situation and so Yeah, keep splitting up these previews. That's cool. Gives us something to look forward to I like having I like having something to look forward to it's nice And then you know and and plus when there's more previews coming there could be anything. You don't know what's in the box Could be a boat Could be a boat like man. What what I wouldn't give for like Like I would love for them to do so just some something truly new and original because in a sense We've known all of this was coming. Yeah. Yeah, of course There's nothing here that is like truly shocking or surprising for us for aos. Yes. Yes Um, and so man, I would love for something that's truly like Unique like they preview the ruination chamber or something like that that's going to be open. Yeah You get a completely new Storm cast take or you get a teaser for a completely brand new force coming later in the summer Yeah, like how about like something for I don't know like I guess we did just have wrap the ever chosen For the like for the narrative campaign that's going to drop Yeah, or a new narrative box like like fire fire Fire show one has to imagine that we're getting up close to the point where we Where it is time For the next phase of the narrative Right. The necroquake has been running for a while. We've seen sort of a lot of the results of that The lumen f clearly are our result all tied into that as are many of the other releases And one has to imagine we take we have the wrath of the ever chosen But that was a very still a pretty minimal story all things considered It's right and it actually told us the more interesting aspect of it The reason why wrath of the ever chosen could happen was because Archeon had his his pause basically on slanache. Sure So like I think that that's like that That points to me towards the mobilization of the lumen f like they realize that they can't sit idle Yeah, 100. Yes him being there and ready to break out slanache is clearly what's going to trigger them coming But that's not that's not the soul wars and that you know what I mean? Like the big overarching narratives that have run yet the realm gate wars you have the soul wars going on One has to imagine that we begin a major arc either in this story or in the In the narrative as a whole as as just pointed out as as Nico just absolutely pointed out the fifth anniversary is coming This this july 4th will be the fifth anniversary Because it was july 4th 2015 that we got the initial Oh, I wonder it makes me wonder if we will get dark elves soon I would highly doubt it I I think we will Actually, I do now that I think about it Because like dark elves truly are the last bastion of army that hasn't been updated from the old world I do not think you'll see dark elves anytime soon I I have very strong feelings about that Uh, I think that there is also indicative of that that they kept most of the dark elf range When we went to cities a lot of the dark elf range stayed Yeah, the high elf range got canned There was a clear reason for that because the luminous were right on the tail of that They wouldn't keep the whole range if the dark elves were coming this year. They would have just canned them as well Okay, I mean I hear that I hear that. Um, maybe maybe so I I mean the the the mal the malaria and shadow elves will happen eventually, but uh I don't know if I would even expect them in 2021 to be honest. Really? Wow. That's a bold claim Yep If if we do if they're 2021, they'll be the I I have a strong feeling they'll be like the late in the year release Like the with the q4 release. We are Um, it wouldn't surprise me like we've talked about how we think that if they drop like they'll drop um Like tirion and tech are just like, uh The schemer seemed to have come out then like the later the marshal forces A malaria and interior forces have been are being held on to On one hand it makes me think that we could see a Them release together Which would I would agree with if they were to do something like that they would push that later Like that would not be next year That would be the year probably after because they're not going to release lumen f and then functionally like a parallel army within a year That's not something that they would do right. Um, all right That's not something I would do from a just from a marketing standpoint But I I can only imagine if they do that I can also imagine them releasing a toolbox, which would be amazing. Sure Uh, all right anything else we want to say, I mean, we'll be back in two weeks We'll keep doing these as long as they keep putting up these previews. They're fun to do something to look forward to It's it's it makes for an exciting saturday Uh, I don't have my normal games of warhammer on saturday that i'm playing right now for obvious reasons So this is uh, it's a good saturday thing. So we got a week off and uh, then we'll be back on the 18th Witness the excitement. All right. Well, thanks everybody very much. Uh, don't forget to hit the like button down there There's a lot of people watching make sure you hit like it helps other people find the channel helps other people, uh Get engaged and and notice it it makes it pop up in searches and things like that which I really appreciate We all really appreciate we're all looking for more content. So doing that Uh, just the easiest thing you can do that helps other people find the channel. So thank you very much. Yeah, go ahead So soaring just asked a question. Do you think luminous love shared gets with terrarium's force? Uh, maybe is the answer. Sure. Yeah, no idea. Um, no idea, but I will say this, um Uh light of all therian has like half of his some like his iconography is associated with terrarium's force Sure. Um, and they said that in the article and um, it's super clear It's super clear that like if there is one that would share al-tharion would be amongst those Yeah, um, the other one, uh, the other ones, it makes me wonder if a lot of the generic sculpts that we're seeing Um, the horses like the cab the spearmen Maybe even the archers they don't have the as much of the distinctive moon iconography that we've seen in um In tec- in like some of the other techlessy in forces And I it just makes me wonder maybe maybe those could be shared with with uh, Terian that wouldn't be beyond the pale would let them double dip Um with regard to releases. Um, we see something similar even in cities of sigmar. So uh, who knows his answer, right? And somebody said no bolt thrower for luminous. I mean who knows we don't know what of all the kits We've seen we don't know how many are still there the bolt thrower show up in the narrative There may be more kits. Yeah, there could be more kits They talk about bolt throwers in the narrative, but they also talk about other war machines the The bone daddies use and those don't show up in kits either. So it's hard to compare the narratives. What's there at any rate? Thank you very much everybody for watching. We very much appreciate it Like I said, don't forget to hit like we'll be back for our normal show on wednesday night As always and as well we'll be back to another one of these in two weeks So with that I'll say thank you very much everybody and uh, Have a great saturday. Bye. Bye


It's changing rapidly, and there's a lot of things to be concerned about right now, but there's also a lot of things to be hopeful for and opportunity, you know, a lot of optimism to be had. And the reason why is we've got incredible new tools that make things possible that were never possible before. And at the forefront of that change are these technologies, and so future's going to happen. It's going to happen with you, or it's going to happen to you. Thank you.


Thank you. Well, thank you to George Shade and Kim Businski for the afternoon faculty program. So now we're opening it up to patients and caregivers. So Art and Julie are going to lead the next session. Or Art, OK, excellent. All right. OK, what we're going to do is we're going to have several people who are patients who have been attending our kidney cancer meetings. We have regular meetings about five times a year over at Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. Our next one's going to be September 9th, Saturday. It'll be from 1 o'clock in the afternoon until 3 o'clock in the afternoon. And sometimes it'll go a little bit long because what we find from these meetings is where you get a lot of your benefit is from talking to each other. And sometimes that happens even after the meeting. So we've got three people who have been through a variety of experiences. I wanted to kind of put it in context by showing you where we were when Julie and I kind of got started on this whole thing back in the 2003-2004 time frame. We got started with the Kidney Cancer Association. And we would go fly to their meetings that were held in Chicago or Washington, DC or Dallas, Texas and try and bring that information back to our meetings. So this is some slides that I took from that. And see if you see some of how things have changed in the last few years. Back when we started, the meeting went for two solid days in Chicago. Patients, caregivers, patient advocates. What did we learn? At that time, there were about 30,000 cases a year. Remember that number's gone up a little now. 60,000 a year. And 12,000 deaths. Now that's about 14,000. There were half a million survivors then. I'm sure there's a whole lot more now. But notice, up to 57% are stage three or four at first presentation. And what we're hearing now is that that figure is much, much lower because the kidney cancers are being found when they are much smaller, stage one, stage two, and much more treatable. Chemotherapy was ineffective. Immunotherapy worked. That was IL-2 and interferon alpha. Worked meant there was some impact for 15% or 20%. But very few had complete reversal. Primary KC treatment was normally surgery. Partial nephrectomy was still kind of new. Only about a third of the people who probably should have had it were getting it at that point. Laparoscopic was thought to be better tolerated. And then, let's see. Kidney cancer was actually many cancers. And we started learning about some of these other cancers. And they were looking for markers. What they're looking for is something with the kidney cancer that they can decide how best to treat. They're still looking for those markers. They listed 75% of the cancers as clear cell, 15% as papillary, 5% chromophobe, and 5% oncocytoma. Not too much different today. Then they talked a little bit about why it is the kidney was kind of a neglected cancer in the whole time of things. I mean, take a look at how many cases per year, how many deaths per year there were versus prostate, which is much better funded, has a much better organization behind it. We basically were kind of orphans. Current research was focused on the genes. And they figured that the major source of the kidney cancers, we had lost one to two copies of the VHL gene. And restoration of the VHL gene could cause tumor regression. And they started using DNA microarray chips. It's come down a lot in price sense. And one of the things we are starting to ask our doctors a little bit more is, should we be thinking in terms of having a microarray to determine which of the treatments might work best for our particular tumor? Many new therapies were in work at the time. Dr. Stadler in Chicago was the co-chair. Clinical trials were the only way to get into the new treatment until the FDA approved the new treatments. Phases of the treatments, of the clinical trials, phase one. They're just trying to see whether you can handle the treatment or whether it's healthy or whether it's going to cause you severe problems. Phase two, they're trying to find out if it does something to the cancer. Phase three, is it effective? Does it do something versus a placebo? And there are phase four, where they're trying to find out whether they can do better. But Dr. Bukowski, kind of a dean of the kidney cancer community at the time, mentioned that clear cell would respond to the cytokines. Papillary was insensitive, things of that sort. Actually had a real interesting conversation in a forum like this, where Dr. Janice Dutcher was kind of extolling the benefits of IL-2. And Dr. Bukowski said that's a terrible treatment, because so many people take it and don't benefit from it. You should all go to clinical trials. So trials and agents, they had immunotherapy trials. They had chemotherapy, gemsytabine and kipsytabine, novel compounds, angiogenesis inhibitors, whole bunch of things that were just getting started. Notice down there, VEGF trap therapy, SU-11248. Anybody know what that is? You know what it is, Kathy. You want to tell them about it? Let's get you a microphone. Hi, I was diagnosed in 2004. Sort of right at the cusp of the beginning of the VEGF trials, which is the real turning point for survival for a long time, I think. I was diagnosed with stage IV, grade IV, which is very aggressive renal cancer. And so pretty much my doctors told my family 18 months was good, and they should not expect me to live more than 24 months max. A local oncologist told me that there were no clinical trials out there, and it looked very grim. I had my full left nephrectomy very long because it involved surgery. And so they basically sent me home and said, we'll do watchful waiting. Well, watchful waiting, in my situation, was pretty much just go home and wait. But there were a really interesting series of circumstances. I ended up in a clinical trial that was just happening with Dr. Thompson at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance for SU-Tent. So I was in the original stage III SU-Tent trial. I was assigned to the control arm, which was the interferon alpha. And so for two years, interferon alpha was effective for me. When it failed, that man I mounted the study. But by that time, it was now 2006, and SU-Tent had been approved. So I went on SU-Tent, and it almost immediately knocked down my metastasis. And we followed it very carefully. One of the, as I understand this, may have changed thinking in time. But one of the reasons one did PET scans at the time was in very aggressive cancers. It was effective in finding it. In fact, that's how they found mine in PET scan in 2004, or early 2005. And so I was on PET scans on a very regular basis. And they did not find any more cancers. But I stayed on SU-Tent for eight years. And the eight years on SU-Tent was hard, part of it. I was on the high dose, and then we reduced it. By the last couple of years, I was at half dose. But it was important because of the aggressive nature of my cancer. Oncologists, Dr. Thompson and other oncologists down south where we spend the winters suggested we might want to go off of it. And we kept saying, well, it's working. And there is a certain comfort to being on therapy of any kind because you know you're doing whatever you can about it. And going off of something that was working was a very scary thing. But I did go off of it. And so I've been off of all the drugs for three years. It has, I am very grateful to Pfizer for SU-Tent. And I am grateful that God made my body responsive to SU-Tent because I know not everybody is. But here I am 13 years out from my beginning of my experience with SU-Tent. Were there any side effects? A lot of side effects. And I had all of them. There was this book, except for the really, really bad ones. But in each time, each cycle, I was on four weeks on, two weeks off, each cycle, I seemed to have a little bit different side effect numbers. And so I'd just get used to one and we'd deal with it. And the next time, it would be worse with another one. And the next time, I'd go back over here. I mean, you never quite knew what you were going to get that time. But life was good. And life was full. We did a lot of things during those years. Going on cruises, did that. Got to see our kids married and have grandkids. It was a wonderful thing to still be here. And I'm very grateful for that. So other than the clinical trial where you didn't pay for the drugs, would you have to pay for SU-Tent? Well, keeping in mind that I started paying for it in 2006, at that time, it was like $6,000 or $7,000 a cycle. And it went up from there. And being on Medicare was not such a bad thing. But I was very grateful because this year, 13 years out, I was able to celebrate my 70th birthday. It's a wonderful thing to be 70. And I'll be happy to be 71 and 72. Birthdays are not a terrible thing. How about a round of applause for that? Let's go to Steve Bliss. Now, Steve, you've had quite a round of several different clinical trials. You want to tell us a little bit about those? The first one I had was when I first went on SU-Tent. I did Trovex at the same time, which was a vaccine, I think, from the European Union was developing, I think, at the time. And it was a double blind study. I did that for a little year or two, I guess, along with the SU-Tent. How long have you been since they found your cancer? Almost 11 years, exactly. 11 years. And as I recall it, about 2 and 1 half years ago when we had our November meeting, you looked like you had just about had the course. Yeah, I was pretty much done there for a while. And then something changed. You went on a new treatment. Went on the funnel lab for a while. Did that for nine months. And that actually, as far as side effects, was fine. But the treatment was kind of awash in the end. Tumors didn't grow, but they didn't shrink either. So we went off that for about six months. And then I started on the Cabo. I was at a Cabo, what do you call it? Cabo Metro or what is it called there? Well, the next time we saw you in the middle of the next year, all of a sudden you were hail and hearty and healthy and surprised the heck out of all of us. So you're on Cabo right now. But these are expensive treatments. What's happened along those lines in terms of your social security disability? So if ours been paid 100%, Cabo cost $14,400. Just got a bottle yesterday, $14,400 for a 30-day supply. Of course, for the final, it was $18,000 for a 30-day supply. Yeah, so you had the kind of a difficult situation where his employer-sponsored health insurance went away. And you had to go on social security disability. And after you went on social security disability, you automatically qualified for Medicare, although you weren't age qualified for Medicare, right? I wasn't age qualified, but the disability qualified before it.  Six months. That's good. So a lot of our people that we have seen at the reviews, the meetings that we hold, have never heard about the fact that they could go for Medicare through their social security disability. And as I understood it at the time, I think for my wife, it was after she had been two years on social security disability, she qualified automatically for Medicare. And so she's been on Medicare ever since. And you also got some additional help through, because of income limitations? Yeah, Medicaid through the state kicked in for a while. I no longer qualify for that. But yeah, it helped out. Great. Still with the Medicare, I'm on extended. I have Humana for the prescription coverage. And I'm on what they call extended coverage through Medicare, which pays for all the prescriptions that they don't pay for. And you come over to our meetings from Yakima. Yeah. It's quite a drive in the winter time. Let's turn to Mike. Mike, how long ago since you were diagnosed? Basically, it's been just over five years. A little closer. It's been about five years. Five years. And you had something that we hear about frequently. You had bone metastases. You want to describe that? Yes. About two and a half years ago, Sue and I were down at the beach. And I dropped something, and I went like this to catch it. And I broke my heart humerus. Nothing had ever hurt so bad in my whole life. So basically, I went in and found out what happened. And went to Sweden in the Swedish system. And basically, Dr. Cannon put it back together again. And actually, there's no rod in there. And we put the more rod together. And then about five or four Christmas, it had some. Hold the mic closer. Sorry. I'm not the first one to hold the mic by hand. Anyway, so basically, it got an infection in it. And it separated. And it took a while to figure out what it was. And then I was able to come back. We were quiet at the time. And I was able to come back, re-glued it, we're going good. And you're taking something for the bone metastases. Your bones are more brittle than the usual. Well, basically, right now, I think I'm basically doing the kebab addicts right now. And trying to work against the next G-Vet if my kidney function is OK. Basically, that's where I'm at right now. I'm on the kebab addicts also. That's been very good, actually. I think you told us at our last meeting in June that you were paying your insurance company with being billed $18,000 per cycle. Yeah, I just went up the $18,000. And you have what kind of insurance? It's Medicare and it's a regents' advantage. So basically, it doesn't hurt you too badly. You still have to pay. It's $800 a month. Yeah. Have to get through the donor toll. None of this is cheap. So this is a good time for me to ask the audience members, do you have questions of our current survivors? Yes, why are they paying for all of this? I would say probably the first answer for that is because there is R&D. Well, you know, it's one of the things we have discussed in our group before. Some of these drugs are extremely expensive and probably far more than you could justify from just the R&D expenses. But at the same time that we kind of say bad things about the big farm of people for what they charge, we wouldn't have those drugs without them. So basically, I kind of have come to terms with the fact that on the whole, it's a good thing. More questions, yes? I wonder if this coverage could be expanded a little bit. I'm on Medicare. Rich, do the donor tolls and then more or less cover you? Well, you go through the donor toll real fast at $18,000 a month. So what they do do is they do give you the drug company that I have. It's to give you a questionnaire about your income. So I think that they take into account what your income is on that in charge of your family. That's a drug company that doesn't. The drug company does not, not make it. Well, for example, Pfizer on suit and we had one of our people that ended up with a medical bankruptcy. But basically, the income was way too low to ever afford it. And he got his suit and for free from Pfizer because he qualified for one of their programs. Most of the drug companies have programs of that sort. Now, if nobody's ever told you to ask for them, you should probably start asking about that. The hospital that you are being treated at, ask the nurses. Typically, there's somebody in their department that'll help you. Kathy, did you have any, you didn't have any of those kinds of problems. Your bigger issues were the side effect issues, right? We, our insurance was, we had one of the catastrophic programs because we were both healthy and we never, so we had a 50% on our pharmacy thing. So in the beginning, we had very high. And of course, they don't change that once. You can't say, well, now I want to buy the other policy. So for the whole time that we were on it before I was on Medicare, we were paying half of the full bore on that. And I would like to encourage you to do what Art just said and that is look into the helps with it. Pfizer, I know, has a really generous approach to it and we'll try to help and I'm pretty sure, I don't know who makes the other drugs, but they all have programs to help out with that kind of thing. The prescription D supplement is kind of meaningless. Well, the prescription D, I mean, that is very helpful once you're at Medicare. But I'm saying if you're still at the just insurance before you get to that part, make sure that you tell all of your relatives don't just buy the catastrophic policy if they're at all likely to get kidney cancer. Okay, there was a hand from way back there. Navigators? There's also something called the Patient Advocacy Foundation that Kidney Cancer Association has referred people to for years. I've never really tried it myself. I don't know if any of you have, but it's another possible avenue. Do we have any more questions of the survivors? Could I see the caregivers for these survivors? So way in the back there and right over here. Caregivers, thank you very much. Sometimes I think you have the harder job and do we hear that? Okay, here are some caregivers. Dr. Taikoti, can we turn it back to you? And maybe you guys could stay here and let anybody ask you if they want to afterwards.


Hi, welcome to week 5. So far we have seen about computing and communication technologies. How computation happens on the web server, on the client, how phone calls happen, how data gets transferred over 2G networks, 3G networks and so on. Now the next level of abstraction is given that I can compute and communicate over a phone or a computer, I will use this power to actually interact with members of my society, my friends, my neighbors, my family members and people with same interests. These are called interaction technologies, an example of that is social networking. So this week is all about social networking technologies. Only between any 2 people in the world, there are only 6 intermediaries. In 6 hops I can reach any person in the world. We already know each other, except that there are some people in between and that number of people are limited. So Dr. Runa Sarkar is going to talk to you about it, the 6 degrees of separation and then of course we will see in great detail about Facebook, Twitter and blogs. Prashant Gautam is going to explain blogs to you. We have about 5 lectures in this social networking series. This would be of great interest to all of you because ultimately the basics in competing and communication are used to build these applications. And you can actually start using these technologies because they are ready to use software like Facebook and Twitter. And then subsequently you will realize that I can use these technologies to solve my problems in the domain like in agriculture, use Facebook for agricultural extension, use Twitter for communicating calamities and so on. So this is a very important week, please pay particular attention to what is happening and we have much to follow up on this way. In addition to those we have some advanced topics in the communication space. Some of you have asked for example we want to know more about Bluetooth and so on. So Dr. Aditya Daganatham has put together a set of lectures explaining all these technologies. This will be slightly advanced may involve little electrical engineering. So if you do not understand what is happening in the lectures do not worry but plow through them if possible. We have a quiz, the link is active now it will be active for 3 days, 72 hours So have a go at it, there are some very nice questions which will actually enable you to understand the various concepts that we have talked about. And we have assignments coming this week, be on the watch out, have fun.


Unlike a red flag, a yellow flag means proceed, but with extreme caution. Let's talk about hair. Obviously, this is a touchy subject in our community. We can't talk about hair without talking about texturism. Unfortunately, as Black folks, we do have a preference for straighter or mixed-looking hair. Indian hair. You know, so many Black people believe the myth that their grandparent or great-grandparent was Native American. And we ascribe additional beauty to that person. If their hair gradation is what we call good, which is just in proximity to whiteness. But that's not what we're going to talk about. What we're going to talk about is how a woman's hair may or may not be a good indicator of her character slash some of the challenges that might be associated with joining with her in union. First and foremost, hair color. This for me is a borderline red flag. But for the sake of this, let's keep it at a yellow flag. Any woman that I've come across, whether in my personal life or interviewing, who has presented herself with non-human colored hair tends to be a very peculiar woman and not in a good way. It's not looking good, Bev. It's not looking good.  She hates men and she believes that women should rule the world. In the Black community, when you see a woman with blue hair, she usually has terrible social skills. She's usually the one talking really loud and cussing people out at the hair salon, at the nail store. And as a community, we can continue to act like there aren't certain patterns associated with certain aesthetic. But the reality is, yeah. And it gets kind of tricky, right?  But even with those hair colors, I would still say proceed with caution. With the blonde, for instance, is this a woman with deep-seated, baked-in self-hate? We have to remember a lot of our girls were raised to believe that white society is better. A lot of us in general were raised to believe that our lives would be simpler, would be better, would be more grand, would be more worth living if we were white.  So subconsciously, we aspire to whiteness. And sometimes that manifests in our physical presentation. We have to talk about skin bleaching in the Caribbean and Africa, even in the Americas. We have to talk about hair weaves, and more specifically, blonde hair weaves. So again, not a red flag is something to be cognizant of. Also, is this a woman who is constantly changing her hair? This is something I've experienced. What it said to me and what it should say to you is that this is a woman who is too easily bored. This is a woman who may or may not have something better to do, and if she does have other things that are better to be doing with her time, she lacks the ability, the maturity, or the competence to prioritize things properly. Again, how will this play out when this woman is now your responsibility? How will this play out when this is your teammate in raising children? What's her budgeting like? Yeah, she might think it's a couple dollars here, a couple dollars there, whether she's doing it herself or she's paying somebody else to do it. But how does that add up if she's changing her hairstyle every single week or multiple times a week? What's the opportunity cost of the time investment? Whether she's doing it herself, and I know how long it takes to do box braids, or whether she's having somebody else do it. Chances are this might be a woman who's irresponsible with her finances and irresponsible with her time. How is that going to play out? It should also go without saying, is this woman's chosen hairstyle or chosen hair length practical? And we've all seen the videos of the women walking through the mall or walking through the club and their hair is dragging on the ground. What if it snags on something? What if she sits on the toilet and her hair falls in the toilet? And now she has toilet water soaked into her hair. Again, a woman who lacks the wisdom of the foresight to take these things into account when choosing a style or choosing a length is probably mentally a toddler that now you are tasked with chaperoning and helping to raise. That's not my baby. Is this a woman who is familiar with her natural hair? And not even to say that she must wear her natural hair all the time, but as a grown adult woman, she should have some familiarity with taking care of herself. If you're a man trying to grow your hair, what can you learn from her? Are there some techniques, some products that she's discovered in her experimentation? In the 20-something or 30-something years that she's been caring for her hair, or has she just been covering it up with synthetic weave? Or just doing the bare minimum because her mom didn't really teach her the whys, just the what's? She's going to do your daughter's hair. Now, unless you want your daughter to be like some of the little girls that I've seen wearing weaves and wigs at five, pay attention to the woman's ability to take care of herself because that's going to be your daughter's starting point. Also, be wary of women with a bald shaving head or a really short cut. And I know ladies are not going to like this, but in my experience, and in some of the conversations I've had with other brothers, those women tend to either be masculine, whether knowingly or unknowingly. And that goes along with being feministic. Those women tend to have recently experienced some transitionary thing happen in their lives, a heartbreak, a death in the family. And the only thing a lot of women can think to do to represent that transition, that new me, is to start by cutting their hair. I think it's a spiritual thing. So not to say rule her out, but be cognizant of what led to this because it's uncommon. Man, don't nobody want no bald hair, chicken real life?  Most girls dream is to grow long, luscious, healthy hair. So when they choose to go the opposite way, whether it's for convenience, whether it's for because of heartbreak, whatever the case may be, it's something you need to be cognizant of. And even speaking on the convenience thing, I get it. Listen, ladies, I get it. I've had hair. I've been damn near baldheaded.  But again, I'm a man. And for me, one of the beautiful things about women is their ability to care for themselves. Against the odds, their ability to schedule in self care, their ability to treat their bodies with the tenderness and care that a female body deserves. So if a woman is out of touch with that ability, or because of the stresses of life, unable to actualize that, brothers, that's something that you're going to have to take inventory of. Maybe that means your job is to free up some of the stresses in her life so she can go back to her essence. Or this might be more than you bargained for and is deeper than that. And you might want to keep her pushing. Now with wigs and weaves, I'll say on behalf of men, we prefer natural. But I'm not so naive to not understand that natural hair requires a whole lot of maintenance. So I have some wiggle room there. And this is why this is a yellow flag. However, I have noticed that women who habitually rely on synthetic hair, just like other synthetic beauty enhancements, tend to be synthetic women. Now, again, this is not a foregone conclusion. This is just something to be cognizant of. Does this woman smell like plastic? Have you never seen her scalp? And not because she has a fro, but because she always has a wig or a weave. Fellows know that the most unsexy thing a woman could do is take off her wig and put it on a nightstand like our moms used to. Now, if you're cool with that, cool. But again, I think it's something that you should be cognizant of. Also, in this era of edge control and baby hairs, pay attention. Is she laying down so many baby hairs that she might look like a toddler or new, new from ATL?  She might come from a certain background or idealized certain aesthetics of manhood and womanhood that I think you should be cognizant of. Also, going back to the natural hair care thing is that edge control flaky, crusty, and you're seeing a whole bunch of buildup around her edges and around her hair. Maybe this is a young lady who is not as well-versed in products that work well with her body or well-versed in self-care and maintenance. Again, fellas, this is something you should be cognizant of. This is who's going to raise your daughter. Send this to your boys. Have conversations about it. Share stories. Father, send this to your sons. Have conversations about it. Share stories. And as we continue to elaborate on some of these conversations, my hope is that we can establish a strong and prosperous Black community full of strong men who are intentional about the women that we choose and the behavior that we reward or that we stay far away from. Thank you guys for watching. Leave it in the comments. Run these likes up. Hit the subscribe button on your way out. Check out some of the other content. And I'll see you guys in the next one. Peace.