The weird circle. In this cave, by the restless sea, we are met to call from out the past stories, strange, and weird. Bellkeeper, hold the bell, so all may know we are gathered again in the weird circle. Bring again the immortal tale, the possessive death. I know superstition dictates that it's bad luck for a young man to see his bride the evening before his wedding. However, Michael and I were two lonely people in a big, wintry city, and we were not at all addicted to belief in superstition. We had known each other since we were children, and I had loved Michael as long as that. He, on his part, claimed to have loved me even longer. It was the warm kind of love, the kind that grows on you and stays, believing and never wavering. Yes, Michael and I did see each other the day before we were to be married. In fact, we went shopping together. We entered one of the dusty little shops Michael loved so much. It was warm in there, musty, and sort of attic-like. Well, it's warm in here anyhow.  I never saw so many old things together in one place. And look, look, Michael, a shopkeeper. He looks exactly like a gnome.  Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon. Can I help you? Oh, thank you. We're just looking around. Anything in particular you'd like to find? Well, to tell you the truth, I was looking for an odd piece, something unusual for a paperweight. A little curiosity of some sort. Well, just look around, sir. Perhaps you'll find what you want. Oh, thanks. Say, there. That looks like just the thing. Oh, no, sir, no. I'm sure that wouldn't do. Oh, why not? It's beautiful. It's the most beautifully model foot I've ever seen. It's not heavy enough for a paperweight, sir. And besides, you wouldn't want to pay that much just for an ornament. Well, it can't be too expensive, especially if it's not heavy. A bronze, isn't it? No, no, not bronze. Oh, here, I'll take it off the table. It shouldn't be there anyway. Oh, that's lovely. Mmm. Must have been near some perfume, too. Smell that scent. Oh, Michael, it seems almost real. Perhaps you'd like one of these little plaster gods, sir. Something Chinese or Mexican. They're very nice. Let me see the foot. It's $50, sir. $50?  Oh, Michael, perhaps a man doesn't want to sell it. But I like it. I'll never pay $50 for it, though. But that's the price, sir. Now, you see, you don't really want it. Perhaps one of these glass globes would do. Let me see that foot. Very well, if you insist. But don't drop it, sir. For heaven's sake, don't drop it. Oh, why should I? Oh. Michael, what happened? You dropped it. You dropped the foot. It...it...it... What, Michael? What's wrong? Here, I'll pick it up. No, don't, Eleanor. Don't touch it. Michael, moved in my hand. It what? It must have been our imaginations. It does feel almost alive, though, doesn't it? No. No, Michael, I felt it, too. That foot moved in my hand as I picked it up. I'd sell you that foot for $1, sir. All righty. It's a bargain. No, Michael, please don't. Please, Michael.  That, sir, is the foot of the mummy of the princess, Hymonthus. It was stolen from her tomb a thousand years ago. And probably stolen from the museum ten days ago. Very well, sir. Here's your dollar. Michael. Sounds interesting, doesn't it, darling, to own a mummy's foot? A paperweight that moves under its own power. Come on, darling. Don't you feel a little sorry for poor Hymonthus losing a foot like that? No, Michael, no. There's something horrible about that foot. Something we shouldn't have anything to do with. And he was so anxious to sell it to you after... Come on. Come on, darling. Don't let your imagination run away with you. It couldn't really have moved. We just thought it did. You know, this will be a good story for Harry tonight over dinner. Where is it he's taking us? The Grey Stone? I hardly felt the bitter cold outside as we walked away from the little shop. My only feeling was one of apprehension. I could still remember the horrible sensation I had as that little foot had squirmed in my hand. No matter how Michael might try to joke about it, I knew he was mystified, too. And I knew that some compulsion other than his own had made him take the mummy's foot. It wasn't until after we had deposited the thing safely on Michael's desk and were having dinner in a brightly lighted restaurant that I began to feel better. Our host, Harry, was to be Michael's best man the next day. And he was an old friend of both of us. As Michael told Harry the story, the horror of it seemed a little foolish. As such things will when you're in gay public places. Well, the funny part of it was, Harry, that if it hadn't been such a tiny foot, you might have sworn that it belonged to the shopkeeper himself. He looked enough like an Egyptian mummy to be one. Well, I'm surprised that I won't let you buy it at all. It doesn't sound like a very pleasant thing to have around. I couldn't talk him out of it, Harry. I believe he was enchanted. Enchanted by an Egyptian and a mummy at that. Michael always was quite a Don Juan, or should I say quite an Anthony. Hey, there's a little bit of something. I can wrap up and take home Mummy or not. Oh, where, Harry? See? He's interested already. You're right, Harry. I believe he is a Don Juan. Hey. Not bad. Oh, where is she? Right over there, to my left. You can't see her very well, Eleanor, but she's really something. All dressed up in a long white dress and has on an emerald bracelet. And what eyes? Oh, my. Yes, I can see her in that mirror over there. But look how she's watching Michael. Harry, I don't like it. Don't worry, Eleanor. We'll get him to that altar tomorrow if we have to hog tie it. She's... she's... I feel as though I'd seen her before somewhere. In a dream somewhere. Something terrible. Something that makes me feel afraid of her. Nightmare, no doubt. You know, she must have passed right close to our table when she came in. I can smell her perfume. Oh, you know what's hers? Well, it smells sort of Egyptian, you know, and she looks Egyptian. Egyptian? Michael, that perfume is the same. Same as what, darling? The same perfume I smelled on that mummy's foot this afternoon. What an imagination. Oh, no, darling. You look so serious.  There's nothing wrong. Nothing at all. There is, Michael. I can feel something wrong in the very air. What sort of thing? I don't know, Michael. Something horrible. An awful premonition. What can happen as long as we have each other, darling? I don't know, Michael. Nothing really, I suppose. Nothing natural. But what if there were ghosts? The spirits of the dead around. Suppose for some reason they wanted one of us. Eleanor, darling, don't get so worked up. Those aren't things to think about. Especially on the night before our wedding. Look, here we are in a brightly lighted restaurant and you're talking about things that belong to dark houses and cobwebby attics. Things that can't touch us here. You're talking as though you do believe those things exist, though. Now, look here, you two. I'm sorry if I brought up a delicate subject when I mentioned that woman over there. It isn't that at all, Harry. It's just that... Well, Eleanor and I, after this afternoon, I guess we're both rather worked up. Michael, Michael, I'm really frightened. That woman, she keeps watching us so strangely. What if... Oh, my darling, let's forget about her. Let's forget about everything but ourselves for tonight. Just think, tomorrow we'll be married. It'll be the beginning of a new life. A life together. And the carrying on of an old one, too. And never forget, dearest, if anything should happen, I'll always be there when you want me. I love you, Eleanor. Always, Michael. You'll never have to call for me. I'll be there. I will, too, darling. Always. Nothing can ever come between us and tear us apart. Nothing. I swear. Can you be so sure? Michael! Didn't mean to startle you so much. It was just that I couldn't help noticing that you had noticed me. Well, I'll be... Michael. I bet it done one, and I thought you heard that. It's the lady with the emerald bracelet. Yes, it is Michael, as you call him, who attracts me here. I beg your pardon. You don't mind if I sit down, do you? Well... Yeah, that's better. You see, love isn't a special study of mine. And this love that you think you have now, it's very interesting to me. Yes, very interesting. Michael, I... Sit still, darling. Don't leave now. Hold my hand tight. You guessed right, you people. I am an Egyptian, and being an Egyptian, my looks are rather different, shall I say, from yours? Uh, nice difference, though, madam. Mademoiselle, if you please.  So you two think yourselves in love. Very much in love. Well, who can say what love is, unless they have felt it through centuries? I know what love is. It's growing together, being a part of the one you love. Well, Michael and I have grown up together, love each other for years, 15 years at least. 15 years? Nothing. What if it had lasted 30 centuries?  Is it? Well, my little one, we shall see. There is a love which has lasted that long, and almost... almost it has consummated. Perhaps tonight. Tonight? Think of it, Michael. Michael! And this little love of yours, 15 years, it will be no more. What is I who have loved through 30 centuries? I. We cannot talk of that here, can we, Michael? Well, why do you ask me that question? Because it affects you. You more than anyone else. As for you, Eleanor, not you nor anyone else can interfere. Michael, Michael, send her away. No one can send me away. That would be like trying to send the very air out of this room. Who are you? I'm a woman of Egypt. What is your name? Name? What is the name except a tag for the living? My name is Hamanthus. Hamanthus? Just a name like any other. I'll leave you now. But I will see you again. Hamanthus? And what's wrong with that? That was the name of the princess. The mummies who fought... Michael bought. It's a coincidence, Eleanor. It must be. It seems as though there's a dreadful net stretched around just coming closer and closer. Oh, Michael, ever since you saw that foot, you seem to have done everything you could to put yourself in his power. Why did you buy it? Why did you? Power in a mummy's foot. Look, she's waving back at us. She's waving as though she wants me to go away. And she's pointing at you. Michael, no one else seems to see her at all. Now forget about her, Eleanor. Now forget her. She's crazy. Michael, Harry, look. What? Look how she's walking. She limps. Almost as though one of her feet was missing. Michael even tried to laugh at my noticing that horrible limp. But I could see that he was wondering too. Perhaps something distant, something dimly remembered, had begun to come into his mind. And he was rejecting it forcibly. It was later, much later, when I was in bed, that I knew Michael was in danger. I wanted to get up, but I couldn't. I struggled and tried to force myself out of bed, but I couldn't move a muscle. Finally, after what seemed ours, it seemed as though I was in the deepest sleep. But everything about me was very clear. Perhaps I'd got up after all, for it seemed all at once that I was in Michael's room. And she was there talking to him. His eyes were open. He didn't seem afraid. He seemed almost hypnotized. I stayed invisible, back in the shadows. Centuries ago, Michael, I took the life of the woman you loved, so that you might be free to love me. I, the daughter of the fairer, went on my knees to you then. Now, now the secrets of the universe are open to me, and it's you who must obey. How did this happen to me? I don't understand. The shopkeeper knew the legend, and he feared it. He didn't know why, but he knew that in whose hand the mummy's foot moved, to him must he sell it. But how could you come back? For murdering I was condemned. Condemned to wander in eternity, scorned and barred from the region to rest. But in the centuries that have passed, I've discovered the secret of returning. But if some token, some real part of myself were left among the living, I could return for it. I could come back. And the token? It had to carry with it some real essence, some true part of myself. And then, a thousand years ago, that foot was stolen from me. I waited and waited, for I knew that sometime that would lead me to you. I'm not the same man. I'm not the man you loved. I'm here now, alive. Do you think that I've watched the progression of lives through eternity with no purpose? No, Michael. You are the man that you don't remember. You have the same life. You have only a different body. You have the same honest and beautiful soul you had then. It's your life, Michael.  That's what I'll take with me. I couldn't hold you before, but I can take you now. Come, Michael. I do not need to touch you now, but it's better if you take my hand. You have a long journey to make. Go away. No. Oh, if I could only move, if I could get up, if I could do something, what's holding me? The journey is long, Michael. I'm in a hurry. If I must force you, I must. Leave me alone. I won't come. I won't. I can move. I can move. Let me... let me... I'm almost out of bed. I'm almost standing. You've moved only a little with all your struggle, Michael. Here, I'll only touch you again, and you'll be better. No, no. All right. I'm so dizzy. It's a week.  I can do nothing else. Yes. How come? As Michael fell to the floor beside his bed, something caught my eye.  It was a silver charm I'd given him and graved with my name, but he loved it and wore it always. Seeing it there somehow gave me hope. I had no way to get it. I wanted to, for it might be... it might be the means of his return. But how could I? I didn't dare even show myself. Suddenly we seem to be in great darkness, speeding, speeding through nothings. Where are we? We're on our journey, Michael. We're passing through the absolute, the period between time and space. It's the only channel to which a spirit can return to the lens of the living in his own body. It's horrible, horrible. We've flown through the liquid parts, the parts that are without light, past the half-formed shapes of those already dead and those as yet unborn. See, we're here already. Where? This is a lonely place, cold hills and deserts all around us. This is the place where my body was buried. Deep inside this mountain, Michael, see, we're inside, deep down in the earth, sealed in with a great stone. This is our home, Michael, where we'll be through eternity. Sealed in a tomb, no, never. Let me out, let me out! Shouting will do you no good, Michael. Here is where no man ever comes into these tombs. In the thousands of years we will be here, Michael. Your span of life will pass again, but we'll always be together. I will get out. Never, Michael. You've left nothing behind in the world of a living that is strong enough, enough a part of you to take you back. Eleanor, Eleanor is strong enough. She's a part of me. Your love for Eleanor is strong, Michael, yes. But it's not enough. For love or hate can only take your spirit back to the land of the living, or spirit alone without your body, and would a disembodied spirit be any comfort to Eleanor? But Eleanor is a part of me. No, Michael. For your body to return, you would have to have left a material possession behind. A material thing is needed to take back your material body. Some material thing that represents your love would be strong enough. But I must have left something. One thing that possesses all those requirements, Michael, is that charm you're wearing around your neck. The charm? Yes, that's part of me and part of Eleanor, too. That would be strong enough. But you see, Michael, that's here with us. I'll throw it. I'll throw it into the darkness there at the far end of this place. Maybe it'll go back. Maybe it'll find its way back to her. No, Michael, no. Nothing can find its way back. It must be taken. But you're put. That's still there. We can go back through that. I will go back, Michael. Alone. Yes, I'll make one more journey back, Michael. And then we'll be here together. Or ever. Here. Here, to take the place of that which you have thrown away. Take this ornament. It will remind you of me while I'm away. No, I'm not. Come back. I'm going with you. Let me out. But Hamanthas had gone. Already she had disappeared into the shadows. And Michael still clutching a little green plaster ornament she'd given him. Beed helplessly at the stone walls of his ancient prison tomb and shouted banefully for help. I kept watching the little silver charm he had thrown into the darkness. And still I struggled against nightmare forces to get it. And suddenly I knew I'd won. I could reach for it. I could feel it. I headed at last in my possession. After that, everything was blackness. A flash of light that was the morning sun brought me back to consciousness. My relief was tremendous. I felt that I'd thrown off a great weight when I found myself safely in bed. There was someone knocking on my door. Miss Helena. Miss Helena. Oh, yes, who is it? Mr. Bays, your superintendent. You asked me to call you. It's late already. What? Who? Where am I? From now it's past ten and you must be up. It's your wedding day, you know. My wedding day? All right, Mr. Bays, thank you. What is it? Is anything wrong? It was there. There in my hand. I felt it first and was afraid to look at it. When I looked, it was. Yes, the silver charm. And what happened, Miss Helena? Can I help? Then it hadn't been a dream after all. Somehow, by some unaccountable mesmeric force, I must have left my bed and gone through all those horrible experiences. But they weren't real. They were things of another world. And Michael, what about Michael? I kept the charm in my hand as I kept it. I kept the charm in my hand as I dressed and ran out into the streets. As I ran through the crowds, I kept murmuring to myself almost as though it was a prayer. Let him be there. Please, let him be there. Even as fast as I ran, someone caught up with me. A hand was placed on my arm and held me back. Helena, Helena, what's the matter? Let me go. Let me go. Don't try to stop me. Helena, it's Harry. Don't you even know me? Oh, Harry. Harry, thank heaven, it's you. Come quickly. We flew across town in a taxi. I've been too excited to think of that before. Everything was still too weird. At last, we were at Michael's. But when we reached his door, he didn't answer. Hey, Michael. He isn't there. Oh, Harry, he isn't there. He isn't. He'll be back in a minute. Open the door, Harry. Go in quickly. We may be too late. Boy, he's really sound asleep. Look, he even fell out of bed and didn't wake up. Oh, he's all right. Just asleep. I hope so. Michael. Michael. Oh, help me, Harry. Help me. I've brought him back this far, but we have to wake him up. We have to. If we don't now, he may never wake up again. Come on, old man. Wake up. Hey. Don't shake him that way, Harry, here. Let me... Michael. Michael, my darling, come back. Come back. Let me put this in your hand so you'll know it's really here. It's Charm, Michael. Oh, Charm. See? I've brought it with me. Harry, the foot. Give me the foot. Is it still on the desk there? Well, it ought to be, unless it's walked off by itself. Don't say that, Harry. On the desk, did you say? I don't see it. And she did get it. Oh, Michael. Michael, Michael. Well, then... Oh, Eleanor, it is you. Michael, my darling, you've come back. We're safe. The foot's gone, but look. They're in your hand. A little green plaster ornament. Then it wasn't a dream, but those things... How can such things be? We'll never understand, Michael, never. Our force can be so powerful, so horrible. It's better not to understand. But Eleanor, she can come back. Her body can come back. The ornament, that might be her power now. Give it to me, Michael. What are you going to do? I'll crush it. I'll destroy it. I'll make powder of it. I'll never come back through this. It's the end of her passport to the land of the living. Eleanor, what's that? Look, there on the floor of the powder from that ornament, it's formed itself into the print of a tiny foot. From the time worn pages of the past, we have brought to the story the possessive dead. Bellkeeper Toe the Bell.


So this is a really exciting time at Marquette. The culture around entrepreneurship in general and particularly around social entrepreneurship and social innovation has dramatically changed in the last several years. One of the major resources is our brand new Innovation Fund. So the Strategic Innovation Fund allows students, faculty, and staff from across campus to really start to think about how to launch good ideas. So this fund allows them to start their ideas off and gives them seed funding to start a venture. One of the social ventures is called Public Marquette. So the Public Marquette is a hybrid social enterprise that aims on solving some of the food access issues on the near west side of Milwaukee, which includes Marquette. It came from kind of an idea that was a little out of the ordinary and really gave it some credibility. It's one thing to approach people with your idea and just a name. It's another to approach them with some backing and some validity to your idea and what you're trying to do. So the first year in the Strategic Innovation Fund was a remarkable experience. We had 275 teams put in pre-proposals for a brand new endeavor. Final proposals, we had 180. So one of the really first measures of success in that was the great participation from the campus community. Our proposal for the Strategic Innovation Fund was awarded in order to foster sustainability of the Marquette Visualization Lab. So the Marquette Visualization Lab is a large-scale immersive virtual environment. So picture a giant rectangular room and we project on four out of the six walls using an array of projectors. At the time the fund was introduced, personally we were at a point in the lab where we really needed something like this. We had some sort of seed funding to advance the projects that we had been garnering some content to date with the start-up funds of the lab. Given that those funds were running out, the timing was perfect for us and also the cross-campus, sort of interdisciplinary nature of the fund was perfect for us as well. We were already working with 25 different people from across campus so it was a nice natural extension for us to solidify some of these roles and then build them out moving further. For a number of years now, I've wanted to get iPads for the Harman Center so the funds enabled me to purchase the technology that we needed to get this off the ground. So seed money, start-up funds to do something that is innovative in the Harman Center, bringing the Harman Center into the 21st century, developing digital literacy along with the traditional literacies of free human writing. But as a member of the Innovation Council, I've been impressed by the way they are really encouraging collaboration across the university and with community partners as well. There are a lot of ideas that make it overlooked because they're not traditional in a lot of ways and I think Marquette aims to highlight those to show that you can do things differently in order to make things better in order to really hit upon an issue that you think needs to be addressed. Marquette University as a Catholic and Jesuit university was founded to educate students to be the difference in the world and that really permeates everything we do with our students. Thinking about not just educating them to be successful in their careers, but to be successful as people who make an impact on the world. Social innovation is a great example of how we can be working creatively to find sustainable solutions to big problems, to be working in close partnership with the community, and really is a central piece of how we see Marquette University and its students, its faculty, its staff being the difference in the world.


the NJSA podcast, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Dean Perine and on behalf of JSA, thank you for tuning in to our JSA virtual roundtable, infrastructure and sustainability predictions for 2023. What you need to know an important discussion today, but first a little housekeeping before we begin our first 100 registrants for today's roundtable have now received lunch delivered right to your door or a gift card. So please enjoy that lunch or that gift card. If you weren't one of our first registrants, hopefully next time be sure to get in on the front of that stuff. Make sure you register early for our monthly roundtables at jsa.net to get that free lunch as well. We want to hear from you and make this roundtable experience as interactive as humanly possible. So please add any questions you might have. Excuse me into the chat and our panelists will get those and assuming that we have time at the end of our discussion. Be sure to stick around once the roundtable is over today. So you can join the virtual networking tables immediately following a immediately following this discussion for a unique opportunity to talk face to face with our event attendees and speakers. You simply join a table in the lounge area and let the networking begin. OK, without further ado, let's go ahead and get started. It is my pleasure to hand things over to our moderator and the ever present and incomparable Mr. Rob Powell. Rob is the founder and chief editor of telecom ramblings. Rob, it's all yours. Well, thank you. Thank you to my good friends at JSA for inviting me to moderate this online panel. Today's topic is infrastructure and sustainability predictions for 2023 and what you need to know. And we have five industry leaders here to give us their thoughts. Let's introduce them quickly here right now.  Luke Kipfer, vice president of data center development and construction at ARAP and powerhouse. We have Angie Cronenberg, chief advocate and general counsel at Encompass. Encompass is the Internet and Competitive Networks Association based in Washington, D.C. We have Scott Hannah, chief revenue officer at Cumulus Data Centers. We have Danielle Rossi, global director, mission critical cooling at train commercial, and we have Rebecca Gilstrap, strategic strategy director at Adler Grand North America with their data power and control division. Thank you, everybody. And let's just dive right in here. And the first question for the panel will be in what forms has data, excuse me, in what forms has sustainability manifested in the infrastructure world over the last several years? We're starting with the context of where we've been. Where have we seen the most advancement? Let's let's let's go with Luke first, Luke. Absolutely. Thanks, Rob. So, you know, at powerhouse, we're a data center developer, not operating data centers, but designing and building them. So really focusing on the construction of data centers. One way that, you know, sustainability has really seen advancement is really making the projects more efficient, being able to use technology, you know, technologies like like BIM, being able to build the building virtually to be able to walk through it virtually, you know, it reduces a lot of waste on construction sites, we're able to build faster, we're able to build in a more sustainable way, you know, different technologies, even, you know, using drones to be able to map out a site and do a cut fill analysis to really make the sites as efficient as possible. So there's been some great technological advancements that are really being implemented nowadays that help us to build build faster and build with less resources in a more sustainable manner. Angie, what are you seeing? We're seeing massive investments right now, both by the public and the private sectors and broadband networks. And by that, I mean, all of the network, but the ISPs are building a lot more fiber going into the ground, the fibers just, it's more sustainable in terms of actually operating the fiber by the providers. In addition to that, it's more sustainable when they manufacture fiber and it's cheaper to operate. But in addition to that, we've seen with the data centers, right, lots of new opportunities to not only lower the operating costs related to the energy efficiencies, but new technology like liquid cooling that's really making a difference too in terms of environmental friendly ways to operate those data centers. And then one last thing I would just mention too, we see a lot of wholesale opportunities that are happening. So this basically means when you have large infrastructure, whether it's a data center or you have a fiber network, where you have others who are sharing in that, that actually makes the operation of the networks more sustainable, where you don't have multiple people like overbuilding each other. The same things because there's wholesale access to the networks. There's wholesale access to the data centers. That hyperscale kind of data computing power really makes a difference in terms of business operational costs, moving it from your local business to a hyperscale data center really can make a difference for the environment as well. Great. Scott, what are you guys seeing at Cumulus? Yeah, just by way of background, what Cumulus is building a data center campus directly connected to a nuclear power plant in northeast Pennsylvania. So but I think to answer the question in the last several years, I think everyone now has a stated carbon goal with regards to energy. I think there are companies that didn't have that even a couple of years ago. So it's super important for them. Now how we measure that is we'll get further on into discussion, but you're seeing advancement in the ESG role in companies. I think that's developed significantly over the year over the last several years in terms of that prominence in an organization. And then the development and renewables has been significant, which obviously we're all targeting. And the water usage, you know, discussion is also has been prevalent in the last in the last several years. All right, Danielle. Yeah, so I think from a broad perspective, the biggest over the last few years is the prioritization. So a lot of people, you know, over the past three or four years, I took Scott's point, been making goals and now they're starting to put actual numbers to the goals. And I've been in the industry long enough to remember when no one cared about sustainability and it was all about, I just want the lowest ticket item and I don't care what they, you know, what my PUE is and what's WUE, you know, these types of things are becoming commonplace conversation. And it's a priority now, as opposed to someone saying, oh, yeah, it's third on my prioritization list, as opposed now it's especially for the top, say the top 20 main, main distributors and suppliers are talking. It's one of their main focuses. Rebecca, what's the perspective from LeGrand? Yeah, so I think we're in an interesting perspective because we have, you know, such wonderful, intelligent PDUs that we have built a business off of. And when you look at the intelligence that's in the data center, we just see that continuing to grow. And so, you know, Danielle touched on it, Scott touched on it, Angie touched on it, you know, people are really starting to baseline what's going on in the data center. It's always happened from a PUE perspective of what's the energy efficiency from an operational perspective in the data center. But we've really made that shift now where it's saying, OK, I'm not doing this just because of operational efficiency. I'm doing this for those ESG reasons that Scott mentioned.  I mean, they literally have, we have this transition. We've seen it go into COLO. We've seen it go into cloud. And there are studies that actually show that at scale, those providers are able to be more sustainable, to what, again, Angie said, than individuals trying to perform and host those services themselves. So there's some really good work out there, and we can share that. Right. In what parts of our digital ecosystem do we have the most work still to do in terms of sustainability? Where are we not where we want to be? Let's start with Luke. So, you know, just go back to Scott made a great point about, you know, companies setting, organizations setting carbon goals. You know, really, I think the most work is still having visibility into that. Not only at the goal, but at all your suppliers and your subcontractor suppliers. You know, trying to understand in the whole life cycle of these projects, of the material, of the developments. You know, a lot of companies are starting to do very good jobs of setting goals for themselves. It's how those goals carry down to the subcontractors and our other partners in the industry. You know, and really finding a good way to measure that and track that as we move forward. All right. Scott, how about you? Yeah, no, to Luke's point. I think energy is pretty defined now. I mean, we kind of know what carbon goes into energy. You know, wind, solar, nuclear, hydro are all great options. The reliability is the key to that. But, you know, I think you're seeing, you know, the energy industry decarbonizing their fleets, those types of things. But I think to Luke's point, you know, what's inside the data center? How's the data center constructed? How do we measure that? Because I think energy is kind of pretty self-explanatory. But, you know, what else is all in the data center and how do you measure all that? I think there's a lot of work to do. And I know there's a lot of great work being done. But how are we tracking it? How is that being brought about to the overall, you know, ESG and carbon picture? Danielle, any thoughts? Yeah, so to both of your points, that there's a lot of voluntary disclosures happening, right? So globally, you've got CDP that they are putting out scores for who's, you know, getting their voluntary disclosures. I think it was something like 13,000 last year and 19,000 this year. It's a huge increase of amount of people are doing that now. And that's fantastic. And we can start noticing what companies are actually doing with numbers. But to Luke's point, now we can start saying, my company is going to do business with your company. What's your score? And what, you know, what are you doing to help us help everything else? So it's, we can actually call each other accountable now. I think that's a big part. Rebecca? Yeah, I mean, everybody, you know, has mentioned the piece about energy and energy consumption has been such a big I would say KPI that we've tracked, right? That PUE piece and the efficiency that was running through it. And, you know, when I think about it, I see we have these large corporate goals that are made, right? And whether it's from an investor perspective or because of the consumers that some of these companies are servicing, right? The feel good aspects, the do good aspects, the CSR, the corporate social responsibility aspects of why they're making those higher arching commitments. I think that there's an opportunity for us as individuals, right? As thought leaders in the organization, as thought leaders within the data center industry, you need to make those personal commitments of how to integrate KPIs even into our daily work or how we're personally managing our team so that we can contribute to those sustainability goals, right? So it's, I feel like there's a bridge that has to happen between those corporate statements, right?  They're gonna change and move the industry. But as individuals, we can marry up to that. Looking at things like lighting within the data center or looking at even go servers, right? There's really simple things that you just, you have energy being wasted or you have different aspects of sustainability which people have touched on, which is transparency, right? Transparency of how things are made, transparency of what is actually in those products and then how that trickles down into the actual, the compute, right? So people talked about carbon, but really figuring out what's the carbon footprint for that compute and consumption that we're all using. Great, that gives an idea of what we need to do. In the third question is in 2023, what kinds of initiatives do you expect us to actually be working on? What do you expect people to be talking about and doing? Let's start with Danielle. So 2023, I think 2023 and 24 are gonna be a really big jump for the industry. There's a lot of things going on to move the dial. And for me, it's three main things, right? It's the, I mean, you mentioned CDP, right? So people reporting voluntary reporting disclosures that's, I think it's pressure. I think it's industry pressure, right? From competitors and people saying, hey, we're doing this and you're saying the bar. Then there's legal requirements. So you've got the legal Montreal protocols and the changes that are happening. So like the next GWP change for refrigerant is in January of 24. And then you've got the legal benefits, so legal requirements, legal benefits. So in the United States, you've got ITC, so the investment tax credit from the IRA and other versions of that where you're getting money back for using renewable energies. And those projects have to be completed by 2024 as well.  And then new technologies. Angie mentioned before immersion cooling. That wasn't a huge thing until recently. I mean, my background's cooling. And in general, people have been talking about this for 15, 20 years. No one's really considered it until it's been necessary. And now we have these high power chips that we're using and they only can be cooled with liquid. So they're having conversations about, okay, I can use liquid, it's decreased footprint. It's less real estate I have to buy. You can have heat reuse, which they're already using in Europe really regularly, but we're just starting to hit the tip of the market here in the United States. There's a lot of things that are gonna be able to come from these types of more efficient types of technologies, but it's all coming to a head around the same time. So I think those are the big things that are gonna be happening the next year too. Great. Angie, what are your thoughts on what we're gonna see next year? She covered a lot on the data center side. So I'll cover a little bit on the network side in terms of how it is that customers, you know, are using the data centers through their internet connections. In the US, we still have a number of residential and business customers that are on copper or coax fiber that are all you have copper in them with massive investments now being made on the fiber side to try to get fiber to more end user locations. And we, as I mentioned, it's not just the private sector making these investments now, it's also now the public sector and the policymakers in Washington are really impressing upon the industry to prioritize as much as possible fiber where it's efficient in terms and capable of building out because the long-term investment needs in the US such that fiber is cheaper to operate, it is more environmentally sustainable. So what I suspect is gonna be happening and we're beginning to see the shift already, more customers as fiber becomes available to them, they're gonna move from their copper, coax based services over to fiber. So you're gonna see improvement. And the benefit to data centers too for that is, fiber can just carry a lot more traffic, cares a lot more data. So there's a lot of opportunity where customers maybe weren't doing as much in terms of cloud computing and using the internet applications and services that rely on the data centers, we're gonna see more of that happening. And so just a more opportunity for that usage, which is again, just that ecosystem and needing to improve the environmental sustainability of data centers. So it's like all of this happening at the same time, I think ultimately means that there's gonna be more opportunity in the marketplace for data centers, more data centers are gonna need to be built, that you need to be more environmentally sustainable at the same time, the networks are improving to be more environmentally sustainable as well. Luke? So what we're seeing is a lot of the sustainability metrics and goals are driven by the hyperscalers, right? They're the ones that have had the ability in the capital to be able to make this a priority when maybe some of a retail COLO player and enterprises, you know, more focused on redundancy, reliability, cost, earlier on. So, you know, one thing that we're really seeing is that that's really starting to trickle down. So that's no longer just a priority for, you know, for the seven or eight big guys that's really trickling down to the wholesale, the retail COLO providers to enterprise providers. And it's great. It's helping the industry as a whole. The hyperscalers have allowed to put capital in so we can develop more technologies like immersion cooling and, you know, use outdoor air without using chemical cooling. There's a lot of great ideas out there that have driven that by that, a lot of great technologies. And so I see a lot of that really starting to trickle down to some of the users who that necessarily wasn't one of their main goals, but it's quickly becoming one. Okay. Rebecca? Surprise. So sorry. So, you know, especially what Luke is saying about the hyperscalers and the opportunity, you know, they're really, they're pushing the industry forward. And I think that that's a really great thing. And because of the commitments that they've made, they made them very strongly, boldly. They've put them out there, they're public. But what we're seeing is an effect where people are actually able to take advantage of them, right? So if you're using those cloud platforms if you colos are even doing this, where people are, if you look at like the top reasons while why someone is selecting a specific co-location site, you know, you've gone from availability as a given, like you were up, uptime and availability, that has to be happening, right? And then you're looking at, you know, security. And now sustainability is finally making it into those top rankings of vendor selection, right? So for that compute, I want to be able to have sustainable compute. And then that ties back to your own corporate mandates and ESGs, right? So as a department, and this kind of goes back to what I was saying before, is that as a department, you are able to do that funnel up of saying, hey, how we're processing this, how we're doing this, you know, through and through our business is sustainable. And so I think it's the tools to be able to do that. It's the transparency needed to be able to show that and people are going to ask for it more and more. I think we're just going to see more demand. Demand's not going down in any sector for compute, right? We're just going to continue to see more. And I think the technologies that are out there that are starting to emerge into the data center are starting to emerge into the network, like the automation, the artificial intelligence, looking at, you know, security blockchain, they actually use more compute and what's behind the compute, right? It's all that IT infrastructure. So we're just, we're going to have to continue to use smarter technologies, monitor, you know, how we're doing it and again, show how we're improving on those baselines. Scott, what initiatives do you see coming up this year? Yeah, all great points, you know, by the panel here. I think, you know, to Danielle's point, I think you're going to see moving from voluntary tracking to mandatory tracking at some point in time where we're going to have to have a grading system, a tiering system to track all this stuff. But the one thing that people haven't really talked about is the advanced, you know, the use of nuclear power. And obviously that's near and dear to me, but you know, we're looking at trying to make renewables or carbon-free power sources 24 seven, which we was a requirement, it's a table stake for a data center, obviously. So you're seeing a lot of interest in that. You're seeing a lot of talk about SMRs, you know, small modular reactors, which are a little bit ways away, but you know, utilizing our current nuclear fleet, you know, the White House and France just got together on advancing the nuclear power discussions to use that because it's 100% carbon-free. And it's going to have to be used in order if we're going to meet the demands of the data center industry. Right. Are the public and private sectors working together effectively right now when it comes to driving these kinds of sustainable infrastructure goals? What does that dynamic look like and how does it affect the industry? Angie? Yeah, I'll just start off by saying that, you know, there's a lot of attention paid to these issues in the public sector investment, the Infrastructure and Jobs Act, which was a bipartisan piece of legislation that was passed in Congress and signed by the president last November is an implementation phase. I know some of you may be focused on some of the environmental specific pieces of the legislation. We've been very involved on the broadband network side of that with our network companies. And what we see there is not only, you know, a commitment by Congress to spending over $60 billion for the building of broadband and making sure that people can afford it in their homes, but also wanting to see that that network capacity is sustainable by really impressing upon the policymakers to choose more fiber connectivity and fiber, you know, is used for really all technologies. Ultimately, mobile wireless relies on it, but a lot of the responsibility is at the state and local level. So the grants that'll get really doled out to broadband providers to build to unserved and underserved Americans and businesses will be based upon state policymakers and decisions. So it's gonna be just a really critical time for those of you who are on the ground working on these issues every day to also marry these issues in a way to really educate the state policymakers who are making these decisions about the importance of the networks, you know, being able to be used for a long-term basis and also being sustainable. And then we see that, you know, there's a lot of opportunities still be just because the way the process is rolling out and the timing of it, the states are working on their broadband plans right now and now's a good time to be talking to them. So if you're not already doing that, but in addition to that, you know, we think that we're gonna have a really good sense of how much each state is gonna get in terms of connectivity money by next summer and then they're gonna begin their grant process. So there's not a lot of time, but there's a little bit of time. And so I just wanted to pass that along to this audience who I know really cares about these issues. Great, Scott, any thoughts?  So, you know, she talked about one of the, you know, one of the, you know, the IRA and part of that is this production tax credit for development of renewables. It also applies to nuclear, et cetera, in terms of, you know, the government basically helping develop those types of technologies and making it viable. So I think you're seeing that. I think there's probably gonna down the road. There's a couple of organizations that are becoming more prevalent who's a UN global compact. And so I think that's the center for climate and energy. And so there's a couple of things out there. I think you're gonna see more of that in the future though. Hey, Rebecca? I would just, yeah, I'll jump in there in that I do see it as an opportunity, you know, for the industry. I mean, we have a question in the chat about, you know, the definition of data center and what we're talking about data center. Yeah, you know, when I'm talking about it, I'm talking about all data centers. So I am going from top down your largest hyperscale, you know, data centers and cloud providers all the way down to cell towers. And even thinking about cell towers is just mini data centers and edge sites because if you think about it, you have immense power at even in those edge sites to make a difference. And especially when you think about the aggregate of all of those sites. So again, whether it's cell towers or whether it's a retail store, you're going to continue to see compute happening out in those edge sites. And so you really need to think about what is the aggregate compute impact that you have, right? And the sustainability measures that you're gonna be able to take. Again, regardless of whether it's a hyperscale or whether it's your co-location provider or your disaster recovery site or you know, it's your enterprise, it doesn't matter. You can make those sustainability steps either way.   And there are other things that are happening that she's alluding to around that digital inequality. And I think that that's a bigger thing that the industry can tackle of how do we get compute into more people's hands and how do we get compute into people that are disadvantaged and don't have the means or don't have the resources or quite frankly, don't even have the fiber in their backyard, you know, to be able to access this ecosystem and all these, you know, right? What all these wonderful data centers are supporting. So Angie, it's really awesome to hear you talking about it. It's really here, awesome to hear about the work that's happening between the public and the private sectors on the broadband side. And then I can add in from a data center perspective that it's, I think we're gonna start impacting even more. So you think about site selection, you think about cities actually regulating how much power a data center can have. I mean, you're starting to see trends where there's going to have to be better partnership. There's going to have to be better communication because if there isn't, you know, you're gonna inherit these regulations. And so again, I tap it back into its opportunity, you know, it's tons and tons of opportunity for there to be a better partnership between the public and private sectors. We have to, we have to. One of the things that, you know, we do here in Washington is educate policymakers about what industry is doing. And so I really, I couldn't emphasize more, Rebecca, the point that you're making that the companies that you all are representing and in the audience, it is really, really key to be engaging with the policymakers really at all levels, federal, state and local, so that they understand, you know, what it is that you're already doing and then how it is that this industry really can improve overall, right? The carbon footprint and improve the health of our globe because it really does relieve, you know, as many of the issues, right? That we traditionally have had as a nation and as a globe where we've had people with long commutes, we've had people not being able to connect with one another except doing so in person. Now the broadband connectivity really can meet a lot of needs along with the data center compute power, right? So that's, it's, we are at this tipping point, I think as a nation too, with all this investment that's happening where we're gonna see, you know, great strides and many of these issues. So it's, if you haven't already been engaging with policymakers, you might be behind a little bit, but there's time to catch up. Okay, this next question is what a personal one of mine really, because I get a lot of press out there that comes to me and everybody says they do sustainability well, right? Nobody says we do sustainability badly. So how do we distinguish instances of real progress when we're talking about creating sustainable infrastructure? How do we separate it from the hype, Luke? You know, this is a great question. Honestly, partly because I don't think the hype is bad. I think obviously we can go into greenwashing and how that negatively impacts things, but would much rather see companies set these lofty high goals and fail by a little bit, then, you know, set the bar very low for something they can easily achieve.  And there's a lot of big claims out there. I don't think all of those are bad because it does help raise awareness and it does help raise the bar for other players. So I'll let everyone else talk on the rest of the question. But ultimately, I think the hype gets people talking and, you know, some of those type headlines, they get a lot of attention and they get a lot of exposure to the sustainability in the industry as well too. So honestly, I'd hype it up all they want. All right. Scott? To Luke's point, I think the hype is good because it gets everybody's attention in terms of, you know, this is something real, this is something we need to pay attention to.   We need to do that. We need further development of all this. But really, do we, how are we tracking the actual, you know, say electrons that come into the servers, right? Is it just offset or is it real? Is it something that's real? So again, it's tricky because, you know, like I know our companies and we're developing like 2.7 gigawatts of, you know, wind and solar across our fleet. But the, but it is tricky. Like, are we just going to offset the carbon to develop more renewables or are we really going to try to figure out, you know, the actual power that's serving the data center? So, and again, I don't want to call that hype at all. It's not, it's super, super important. But, you know, at some point we're going to have to get down to, and then that goes back to what we're all talking about too, in terms of tracking and reporting.  Because we're all having these stated goals and I think it's great. And I think these bold goals are awesome and most companies will fulfill those. But it's really the proofs in the pudding and how it's done. Okay, Danielle? Yeah, I think exactly that. I mean, and if you talk about carbon offsets from a, not even just this industry, but there's also a lot of instances where people are just paying money to a third party fund and they're not actually doing carbon offsets if they're just saying they are. So, there's going to be an emperor's new clothes moment soon where people are going to start calling out on this where they didn't realize that they're just going through the motions and you can make these lofty goals. And I agree. I like that. I like them making these goals, but prove it. That's, I think that's going to start happening very soon and they're going to have to start putting numbers to it. And when they're putting fake numbers to it, to Scott's point earlier there, yeah, there's been voluntary disclosures, but very soon they'll probably be mandatory. That'll make it easier. Rebecca? Yeah. So you can look at it at a couple of different facets. One is from like a micro level is that it's as simple as even calling out HPDs and EPDs and looking at product declarations, right? And the documentation around how products are manufactured and what is in those products. So I think in your sourcing, you know, whether it's through a sourcing department, whether it's you as an individual, you have the opportunity to ask for in your submittals, you know, products, right? That have that documentation and have those certifications to prove, right? That they are actually good sustainable products and are made in sustainable ways. The other thing is I think you can look at it in who you're doing business with and look at the companies and their ESGs and what are the steps that they are taking from a sustainability perspective, right? And what are those KPIs look like? How are they progressing along them? Especially if they're a public company, a lot of that information is now being shared within their shareholder meetings, right? And they're quarterly earning statements. They are, it's making it to those financial calls about the steps that they are taking and how they are progressing. So I think it's looking at who you're doing business with and making sure that they really are enacting on that. And then I think, you know, the other pieces within your own design, right? Like are you taking the steps, even site selection? Are you looking at areas where you have more renewable energy available, you know, to power, right? Is it real versus buying those offset credits? So literally something as simple as site selection, we've looked at it for, again, uptime and cost of power and these other factors before, you know, but now we need to add on that piece of sustainability, which again can impact it from a macro level. All right. So we're running toward the end here, but what specifically, yes. Robert, real quick, there's a question here that might answer on this question. Does ESG receive any attention from chief risk officers? And, you know, we talk about hype and what's real and what's not. I can just speak from our company standpoint. We, our ESG, head of ESG is actually our chief risk officer. So you're getting more attention on that. I can't speak to other organizations, but I thought I saw that in there that might, you know, I think, I think as risk gets involved with ESG, you're going to change the hype from reality because that's, you know, that kind of gets down to the level of importance in a company. Right. I think a lot of that too, really quick, just on the ESG thing that we're having conversations about ESG with people and people forget that a huge part of ESG is trying to track and audit your existing equipment. So a ton of times you'll find, you know, old products, things that are, you know, end of life and things you wouldn't have normally found that we're trying to replace them and get the most sustainable option, but in reality, it's an availability issue too. So that would, that's a huge risk mitigating factor as well. All right. All right. What specific improvement would each of you most like to see in 2023 and how we approach a sustainable infrastructure? Luke, you first. So, you know, I'd really like to see an increase in, you know, collaboration between a lot of the professionals in the data center industry. You know, there's some great groups out there. I think there's a question in the chat about, you know, iMason's climate accord. So there's some groups that are doing amazing things, but ultimately we're all trying to solve a lot of the same problems. And, you know, we're all under 100 NDAs and every hyperscaler and every colo, you know, they think they have a special sauce and designs aren't shared and solutions to problems aren't shared.  So it really be, I think helpful that the industry as a whole, that if we have more open communications about how we're all handling the same issues across the board. All right. Angie, what would you most like to see? So on the network side, I talked about the massive investments that are being made across the board, right? So, but there's a customer issue. And we see this where customers don't want to transition over into the technologies that are much more energy efficient, because oftentimes it does mean they need to purchase like new equipment to handle their services, either at their business or in their home. So what I think our side of the industry sometimes doesn't fully appreciate is how to make the pitch to customers about the long-term savings and the long-term benefits that can happen, as well as the immediate benefits in terms of being able to access so much more content and to be able to do so many more things. And tying that back to the topic at hand that we're talking about today is how do we do this in a way that's much more sustainable? So being around the broadband industry for my entire career, you haven't really heard as much of a pitch about this to help people understand this is really about making sure that we're doing what we need to do to save our earth.  And so I think, you know, as Rebecca had mentioned we talk a lot about the inequities, right? But those inequities tied to so much of a bigger picture and we need to do a better job of that as well as we're explaining to the customer there's now a better technology for you. You need to move off of DSL which is based on copper and move over to fiber, right? We've now built this fiber we've made a big investment to you. So we've got to do a better job of like telling the whole story and this is a part of the story. And that's on us. It really is. Rebecca, what would you most like to see? If I had to boil it down to one thing I think it's the water usage effectiveness is I think it's gonna be a big I think it's gonna be a big change for individuals and I think it's a necessary one we've been so focused around energy, energy conservation, renewables and the bottom line is water is a precious resource and we need to be protecting it and I think we need to be measuring it and more aware of the fact that there's a lot of water that is used within the data center. So I think that's gonna be a trend and also it's something that I think is important. Scott, what do you want to see? Two things I think to Luke's point further collaboration with the whole supply chain the whole industry. Yeah, iMasons is doing a phenomenal job. I think 170 companies join the climate accord and they're doing really great work in terms of how we're measuring all the different aspects of data centers which that needs to continue and I think it will. But then the other thing I'd like to see is continue development in 24 by seven reliable power so with carbon free power. So how do we take renewables into something that can be reliable 24 seven? How do we further develop nuclear? We've got a lot of assets out there and most data centers have some kind of nuclear power powering them through the grid but how do we develop that further so we can actually and how do we continue to decarbonize the coal fleets, et cetera. So that's further development in terms of mine. Those are the two that I'd like to see. Danielle, you get the last word. What do you do most like to see? Embrace new technology. So there's a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily even new technology that are just becoming more readily available and but there are things outside the box to Scott's point. I mean micro grids and trying to have a better handle on where we're getting our power and think of other ways, you know, and then from cooling, radiative cooling and some other options that are becoming new. Just think outside the box and there's definitely some new things coming and I think that that's a better way to look at the future going forward. Great, that's great. Thank you to all of you for taking the time to have this conversation here and I'm gonna turn it back over to Dean. Dean, you still there? I am indeed, Rob, a great conversation. As these, a lot of times these go, it's like the quickest 45 minutes of the day, right? I feel like we probably could have continued all afternoon. Unfortunately, that is it for us on the time. So a huge thank you to you, of course, Rob and to our speakers for today's insights on the infrastructure and sustainability predictions for 2023. If you enjoyed today's discussion, we invite you to tune in next week for a two day live, that's correct, a two day live broadcast, not two full days. Two day live broadcast on December 14th and 15th on jsa.net and JSA's social media channels where JSA media consultant, Jau Marquez Lima will host a series of one-on-one interviews with thought leaders in the digital infrastructure space from across the EU. So that's gonna be some really cool stuff going on on the 14th and 15th of, which is just next week, right? These one-on-one discussions will offer additional industry insights and 2023 predictions. For the interview lineup, time to visit jsa.net or JSA's LinkedIn page. And finally for viewers, if you were one of the first 100 registrants for today's virtual round table, we hope that you enjoyed your lunch. Make sure to visit us at jsa.net to register for more upcoming JSA virtual round tables. Our next one takes place on January, that's right. It's going to be January 26th, that's 2023 at 1 p.m. Eastern where we will discuss achieving net zero, kind of continuing this conversation. We're gonna be discussing achieving net zero carbon emissions by 2030, tackling the key partnerships and technology to meet the goal. So lots going on with JSA TV and JSA podcast, but I think that's a wrap. We look forward to getting the playback out to you of today's round table very, very shortly. And you can see that on JSA TV and JSA podcast on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify, and other streaming mediums. In the meantime, see you back in the networking lounge. That's right, we've got a couple of minutes here. Please join us in the networking lounge right after this ends. And I think that's it. Happy holidays and happy networking.