Welcome to pure dog talk. I am your host Laura Reeves and as always I am very very excited to have my friend Dr. Marty Greer here and we are going to talk about something we have not touched on previously in our veterinary voice conversations which is which is saying something because Marty you and I have covered a lot of territory here. We have so but tonight we're going to talk about kidney diseases and ailments and things that can go wrong with our dogs from random to specific. So I'm very excited about this conversation as almost always most of our veterinary voice topics are things that I personally have experienced in a dog in my care and this is no exception so welcome to it yeah yeah yeah yeah we have managed to cover a lot of ground sometimes not even on purpose not like squirrel what are you yeah okay talk to us about kidneys they're an important item in our dogs they really are you're supposed to have two all of us are supposed to have two um and they're supposed to both work effectively but it doesn't always go that way and a lot of people take kidneys for granted because they you know they've heard well you can donate a kidney so you must not really need to have two kidneys and you know as much as I love most of my family other than a family member I would not give up a kidney because you really do need the reserve of an extra kidney in case something goes wrong with one or both um just like your liver just like almost all of our organs they're duplicated so we should have two and they should both work effectively so we need to take good care of our kidneys and that of our dogs so super important we do that and there's a long list I started typing out a list of all the things that can't go wrong and it's a really long list and then the diagnostic like top five most common I mean I don't you know I think that'll probably yeah we can do a full time yeah we can do that the most common um the first thing we always think of in dogs in our practice is leptosporosis and secondly is Lyme disease because we see those two infections frequently causing kidney problems which are related to an infection in the kidneys and glomerular nephritis which is inflammation of the cells inside the kidney um so those are really important age is also a really important category so we'll talk about infectious diseases age inherited diseases toxins and pre-renal failure or other causes that cause blood pressure to go down and kidney failure kidney function to fail so then there's another list of other things that we need to talk about but things like Fanconi syndrome and leishmaniasis not common so we're not going to spend much time on those but toxins very important antifreeze in cats don't want to leave the cats out lilies um non-steroidal anti-inflammatories amino glycoside antibiotics so there's a lot of toxic and we use drugs sometimes that are toxic to the kidneys even deliberately knowing that we have to be really careful with them so those are kind of the the common things a lot of older dogs ended with kidney disease and a lot of older cats do too but this is a dog program so I don't want to delve into cats too much but we see if cats a little minute I mean cats can yeah yeah we don't want to leave the cats out but a cat in kidney failure will live two or three maybe four years a dog in kidney failure a dog in kidney failure a much shorter time period so I want to really clearly describe the difference between those and that you know if you go in your cat's b u n is a little high and you're in specific gravity is a little low you know you take good care of that cat it's going to live four more years you go on with a dog with the same situation they are circling the drain pretty fast unless you are really on it with a veterinary clinic that is into finding the underlying problem and managing it well and sometimes even under the best of circumstances it doesn't go well in dogs so let's start with let's start with before we go into any of the various things how do I know my dog is having a problem with its kidneys what am I seeing sure the symptoms that most people catch first are a change in water consumption and increase in water consumption and increase in urination now that's not the only reason that dogs can drink more need to drink more and urinate more and what goes in must come out so remember if your dog is drinking more it's likely urinating more and if your dog is urinating more it's probably because it's drinking more so those usually go hand in hand but I sometimes am surprised by the answers I get from clients when they are asked these questions and they don't give a good answer and sometimes the dog is drinking more and they're urinating someplace that the owner just hasn't found yet so they may have an indoor bathroom that's secret to you but not secret to them so sometimes that happens so the most common thing are changes in water consumption changes in urination now other things that frequently cause that are going to be diabetes which happens in dogs and cats cushing this disease which happens in dogs which is an adrenal gland dysfunction and other things like pyometra high calcium that can be related to a form of different forms of cancer so there can be other things that we're looking for but we're going to start looking at kidneys diabetes and cushing's disease in the dog most commonly and so you're basically going to go in tell the vet that your dog is drinking too much urinating too much and we're going to get blood work and a urinalysis as our basic starting point but that's not the only place we're going to go we're going to start with those two things because if the dog is still able to concentrate their urine well then that tells us something different than if the dog's urine was really dilute and if the BUN and creatinine start to go up once that happens that means that only one fourth only 25 percent of the dog's kidneys are still working correctly unless it's a secondary cause from dehydration like vomiting diarrhea other causes of dehydration so super important that you go in you and if your vet says we should do lab work you shake your head up and down and you say yes yes we should yes please do not argue with them do not fight them on it because you can very quickly tell from a urinalysis and a blood panel is my dog diabetic does my dog have a pyrometra does my dog have Lyme disease leptosporosis high calcium some form of cancer some other form of dehydration or one of the other multitudes of things so shake your head up and down and please please please take your dog in with a full bladder and let your veterinarian collect a urine sample there we have lots of clients that volunteer to bring urine samples but the problem with those are they're not usually sterile they're usually not very well collected they're oftentimes not really fresh so trot in with your dog without letting him urinate between the car and the veterinary clinic and in our practice when we know a dog is coming in for a urinalysis we do it by cystocentesis which means we look at the bladder on ultrasound we put a needle directly in it it kind of freaks people out doesn't bother the dogs or the cats one little bit they just lay on the table like oh this is cool now if they were putting a needle into your bladder you'd probably freak out a little bit just because I thought it you know but it doesn't hurt if it hurt dogs and cats wouldn't just lay there and look at us blankly like oh okay so make sure that you let him get a urine and get it collected it sterile that way it's fresh and urine sample over time not only does the bacteria change in it but the kind of crystals change and so a whole lot of things change so if you collected it the night before put it in your refrigerator and then took it into the vet clinic in the morning you're going to get a whole different result so if your vet says I would like to ultrasound your dog's bladder and collect a urine sample along with saying yes to the blood samples say yes to the urinalysis because the urinalysis the ua in hand in hand with the blood sample tells us a whole lot more than either one alone so collaboratively they tell us a bunch now if they come back high b ua and high creatinine so that's what I was going to do I was going to interrupt you just for a second marty and have you explain what is b u n like I've looked at an awful lot of cbc's in chemistry panels but not everybody has what's a what's a b u n what's a chemist what's a creatinine creatinine and then talk to us about specific gravity and what that means those seem to be the three things on kidneys yeah and we'll throw another one in there too a couple more so b u n stands for blood urea nitrogen that is one of the two waste products that we should see eliminated through the kidneys if the kidneys are working correctly creatinine and b u n typically go up parallel so when those go up that tells us that there's something wrong with the kidneys either it's renal so meaning kidney and origin pre renal meaning that the dog is dehydrated and therefore is seeing those waste products go up because the dog isn't able to flush them out of the system by drinking enough like vomiting like diarrhea like pyometra like a lot of other things or post renal meaning that the dog is obstructed now heaven help us that we don't know that the dog is obstructed and unable to urinate and I do mean urinary obstruction not bowel obstruction so those are the three so we classify them renal pre renal and post renal that's where we start with did we just did like two months ago we did kidney stones so anybody that's that's worried about obstruction and kidney stones there's a podcast for that there's a podcast so go look it up so go find that one and listen to that one on kidney stones but okay so b u n creatinine and then specific gravity talk to that one well let's that's sdma first and then we'll come back to specific gravity so sdma is a test that has been developed by idax that is a predictor of kidney disease before the b u n and creatinine start to go up so it's pretty interesting the b u n and creatinine don't go up until the dog is living on 25 percent of their kidney function sdma goes up before that so it's predictive except in puppies it's always high in puppies so if you go in and your dog has a blood panel done before their spay or neuter or whatever surgery they're going to have and your vet comes in and says oh the sdma is high if it's a puppy it's not accurate and even yeah yeah below 12 months even idax doesn't have a great explanation for it but just be aware do not freak out that your dog's in renal failure if the sdma is high and it's like five months old just relax okay urinalysis tells us a lot of things we look at chemistries on the urinalysis mostly we look at specific gravity and chemistries and the specific gravity is the ability of the kidney to concentrate urine once the kidney is damaged at 66 percent so only 33 percent of it's continuing to work then the kidney can no longer concentrate urine so the specific gravity becomes isosthenaric isosthenaric means between 1.008 and 1.012 that's isosthenaria so that tells us that the kidneys can't concentrate the urine so that's an earlier predictor that there's kidney problems not as early as sdma but earlier than b1 and creatinine now if your dog eats a lot of canned food eats a raw diet if your cat eats canned food that can sometimes be less accurate but if you're you know looking at a fasting blood sample and urine sample first in the morning it should be pretty well concentrated it should be above 1012 probably above 1020 in a dog and yes above 1030 in a cat that's just normal so if I have an old cat that comes in or an old dog that comes in and they're 1020 but they're b1 and creatinine they're still okay I'm still going to be talking about you you know starting to change diet make sure that the dog has access to plenty of water you never deprive it of water so it becomes dehydrated and then further accelerates the kidney problems so those are all bits and pieces that you need to know so we're not trying to talk a weird language or confuse anybody it's just when you have 24 chemistry played those those are like really important things that you're going to look for if it's a kidney thing and that yes that's going to hand you that piece of paper and it's going to look like it's written in greek and those are the three things that you can look for right right and your vet is going to look at this and interpret it fairly quickly you're going to be scrutinizing it and trying to understand every word but you know after you've looked at uas and cbc chemistries for as many years as your veterinarians have they basically can just glance down the paper and go okay here's a problem so that's where we start so your analysis in addition to the specific gravity we can look at chemistries on there so we can look at the protein the glucose the ketones the bilirubin there's a whole bunch of nuances to that and if there's too much protein in the urine and it's fairly concentrated then the next test we're going to do on that is going to be a urine protein creatinine ratio upcr because that tells us how much protein is leaking through the kidneys and if there's protein leaking into the kidneys and into the urine that's bad but it can be managed if you catch that early so again this is an earlier indicator of kidney problems that allow us to jump in and start making some modifications in the dog's diet medications some other things that we can do that can really effectively help prolong that dog or cat's life expectancy so very cool on that then also on the urinalysis we look under the microscope when we look for white blood cells red blood cells crystals casts a cast is a cellular piece of material that tells us that there's actually active damage happening in the kidneys it's the tubules sloughing cells that's bad crystals go along with our our stones that we talked about last time so we're not going to go into that and red blood cells white blood cells and bacteria will tell us if there's an infection what kind of an infection it is and those kinds of things so we can see bladder infections and we can see kidney infections and a lot of people confuse those because they think it's all part of the same system bladder infections dogs and cats don't get sick they may be uncomfortable they may urinate frequently they may have blood in their urine they're not sick if they come in with white blood cells in their urine and they're sick they're running a fever they're they're ill they're not eating well that's a probable infection in the kidneys called pylonephritis very bad not nearly as common as bladder infections but you got to jump on those and get them treated before there's permanent damage to the kidneys so it's really important that we get an accurate and sterile urine sample so we can test for this stuff we are at the kentucky anna cluster of dog shows and i'm talking to dr karen potter she is a german wire hair pointer breeder trepanion breeder and she's also a veterinarian and karen's going to talk about what trepanion means to her as a breeder and also what it means for her as a veterinarian when i became a trepanion breeder and i sent my letters out i knew that they were going with 30 days of coverage had one of my owners have an emergency with them that's comforting to me as a breeder to know that they can get help as a veterinarian there are many cases where we have to make decisions on how to treat things based on financial restraints and when the financial restraints come into play we can't always do absolutely everything for that pet so if my puppies are covered at least for those first 30 days i know that if they get sick they can get the best possible care so i you can see me going yeah yeah i have questions um i know it's all over my hand language um okay can a bladder infection go to the kidneys number one it can it's not common but it can okay so more commonly more commonly you'd see pus in the urine from the kidneys not the other way around okay so what's going to cause a kidney infection where's our causation it's usually hematogenist meaning it starts off in the bloodstream so it can start as a pyometra it can start as any way the bacteria get into the bloodstream but usually the kidneys are protected by the fact that the urine is concentrated so that helps to kill bacteria and remember urine is flowing from the kidneys down the ureters and into the bladder so that constant flushing should keep bacteria from being able to ascend up into the ureter and up into the kidney so can they still happen yes they can they're not at all common but they happen and they're tricky to diagnose because sometimes they just it doesn't look obvious so that's where um that blood in the urine sample is really important because it is lifesaving to a dog um or cat to have that diagnosed and and be able to resolve that so that's that's where we're going to go with that now if there's pus in the urine whether it's from the bladder or the kidneys we're going to want to culture it find out which bacteria is living there what antibiotic is going to be most effective and if it's a bladder infection we'll typically treat for you know the very first bladder infection maybe three to five days after that typically 14 days if it's pylonephritis a kidney infection that dog is going to be on antibiotics for a minimum of four weeks absolute minimum so the other infections like we kind of mentioned at the beginning that can cause kidney damage don't necessarily leptosporosis actually lives in the kidney Lyme disease does not live in the kidney Lyme disease can live in other parts of the body but any of those infections can set up glomerular nephritis which is this big you know giant word but basically it's inflammation of the cells of the kidney and oftentimes proteins are getting produced in this whole thing and they start clogging up the tubules in the kidney and causing some really serious damage so that's where Lyme nephritis Lyme disease causing kidney failure comes in is it's glomerular nephritis not the bacteria itself but the inflammatory changes that happen with it leptosporosis are bacteria that actually live in the kidneys and those again are very serious and we see several cases of lepto a year in our practice you can vaccinate for Lyme disease you can vaccinate for lepto if you live in Utah you probably don't need it it's dry they don't have a lot of lepto they don't have a lot of Lyme if you live in other parts of the country listen to your veterinarian especially if you're new to that part of the country or you travel there for that's where you spend the winter or you go there for dog shows a lot listen to the local veterinarians because they know what infections what diseases that they see and they're going to help you decide what vaccinations and what preventives you should use to try and manage some of these things to keep your dog's kidneys healthy okay okay so i'm i've got a dog that has been consistently my old vet called it pupd so i know there's a special name for that drink too much pee too much um and you see this and you're like something's not quite right but you know mostly they're fine they're running around whatever and then one day dog decides i'm gonna try and die and i have 105 temperature and blah blah blah and so you take your dog to the veterinarian you pull your blood panel you pull your urinalysis you look at what your antibiotics are then where are we going from there well that we're going to want to culture the urine right we're going to want to get the dog on fluids okay we're going to want that urine protein creatinine ratio to see if there's leaking of the protein whether we need to put the dog on blood pressure medications or other drugs to keep the protein from leaking we're going to want to use the appropriate antibiotic there if they're in kidney failure and they're running a fever they're going on IV fluids man um subcube fluids are fine for little things you know maybe a little vomiting maybe a little diarrhea if your dog's in kidney failure they need to be in the hospital on IV fluids a lot of people will prefer 24-hour day hospitals but sometimes those are hard to get into or difficult to be able to afford so at least I mean what we do in our practice is we'll put in an IV catheter and really hit the dog hard with fluids during the eight to ten hours that we're open and then send him home at night with the catheter and come back the next day it takes a minimum of three to four days of heavy duty IV fluids diarrhea reasing the patient before we can see any kind of a change in the kidney values and this is where it it comes with a lot of experiences that you know when you're a new veterinarian you start the dog on fluids and you're like okay we're going to check the blood every 12 hours or every 24 hours we're going to see how that's going I never see that BUN and creatinine start to drop for the first 72 hours and all you do if you run blood work is you run up a bill and then you get more and more discouraged that the dog is not going to improve because the BUN and creatinine don't move for 72 hours and then when it moves it's either going to move miraculously down like plummet or all that fluid is going to start filling up the dogs legs and body cavities and you're going to be like yeah so no matter how good the numbers look at three days if the dog looks terrible the dog's not getting better that's not a good situation so it takes a minimum of three days on heavy duty IV fluids and antibiotics to get these guys to turn around and if you don't have the resources to do three days of treatment it's just going to be a losing proposition and it's expensive but it and it's it's difficult and it's painful to watch your dog go through this but it's kind of it's kind of tough it's kind of the way it is so um additional diagnostics you're going to want to test the dog for lepto now there's a PCR test which looks for the bacteria in the urine that has to be done before the antibiotics are started and then a titer test now the titer will tell us if it's a rising titer but it can take three weeks for the titer on a leptosporosis dog to start to go up so we usually do both the PCR and titer because we don't want to wait three weeks to start treatment if it's lepto if it's Lyme disease we're going to do that snap 40x or the other equivalent Lyme tests and if that comes back positive we're probably going to want to do a c6 to see if that dog has an active Lyme infection or an old Lyme infection because once the snap test turns positive on Lyme disease that will stay positive for years maybe not the dog's whole life but a pretty long time so without a c6 you don't know if it's an active infection or an old infection we lost three dogs last year to Lyme disease in our practice one of them had a c6 of over 800 so it's dramatically high anything below 30 is not an active infection above 30 it is an active infection but at 836 it's pretty bad so you want to know yeah you want to know the Lyme results the lepto results the urine culture results the urine protein creatinine ratio so those are all important things you want to make sure that there's no underlying disease going on does the dog have a pyometra does the dog have endocarditis and there's they're throwing bacteria in the bloodstream because of a heart problem you know what other underlying problems are going on do they have Cushing's disease because Cushing's disease causes them to the dogs to drink a lot and urinate a lot that's the pupd polyuria polydipsia polyuria means many urine so like urinating a lot polydipsia means drinking a lot so those are you know words that we throw around in veterinary medicine because pupd is easier to say than all the other things that go to me I'm sure because I can't say all those other words no it gets complicated so you're going to want to look for underlying problems so those are all the things we're probably going to want to talk about an ultrasound is the kidney looking normal on the ultrasound does the dog have a congenital kidney problem there's polycystic kidney disease there's renal dysplasia there's hydronephrosis there's all these things that we can see on ultrasound I had a dog that came into the practice this weekend to be bred and I did her pre-breeding exam and I felt her abdomen and I could feel this big structure in her abdomen and I'm like okay this isn't supposed to be here so I put her on the table did an ultrasound so okay this isn't supposed to be here put her on the x-ray table took an x-ray said this isn't supposed to be here she probably has an hydronephrodic kidney hydronephrosis means this huge amount of fluid had built up in the kidney so she had basically one functioning kidney and one kidney that wasn't functioning so that's why you really want to have two so all those things we're going to look for underlying problems to find out does the dog have renal amyloidosis which we can see in certain breeds like Sharpeis and chow's so we're going to be looking for things does she have kidney failure does she have kidney kidney cancer you know does she have cancer somewhere else like an anal sac or lymph nodes that's causing the calcium level to go high and it reflects as a high calcium in the blood but increased water consumption increased urination pupd because the dog is trying to flush that calcium level out because the kidneys will start to build up calcium and calcium in your kidneys turns them into little rocks and they don't function very well so there's there's lots of nuances to this is not just you walk in and say okay your dog has kidney failure it's just an old dog don't worry about it there's nothing else we can do it's going to die we've had dogs come to our practice like that and we will chase it down and find out well you know what your dog has lepto and if we treat the lepto your dog's going to be fine we take care of a whip it that came to us four years ago on halloween night and she he was diagnosed as oh yeah he's three years old but he's in kidney failure he's going to die in the next three weeks well that was four years ago because we found the lepto treated the lepto and the dog is fantastic you ever see a fat whip it i have a very very i i i have but it's not coming no he eats kd because that's good for his kidneys and that made him fat which is really fun to see a fat whip it that was supposed to be dead three and a half years ago it's pretty fun so all those things are important so talk a little bit there are any number of i hate to you know go too far down this rabbit hole that some of you mentioned cushing some of the more common breathe specific kidney disorders fankoni you mentioned earlier which is besenji right um and and pops up i think a few other places what are some of the other things that people should put in a differential on this um polycystic kidney disease pretty common in the shih tzus the losses some of those breeds it's common in certain breeds of cats as well like persians um renal dysplasia again that's an inherited disorder that we can see i've seen it in all breeds so you can't specifically i've seen it in newfoundland schnauzers you know you can't really classify it too hard and fast is just one but on ultrasound you can generally tell if the dog has polycystic kidney disease or renal dysplasia so those are pretty important things hydro hydronephrosis of course shows up pretty readily on ultrasound it looks like a big pocket of fluid like the dog has two bladders but it's not supposed to they're only supposed to come with one um renal amyloidosis yeah usually that's the sharp haze the the um the chow's um oh the other thing we didn't talk about that can cause kidney failure is a stone in the ureter or in the kidney itself instead of being in the bladder again you hear kidney stones in people fairly often we don't see them in dogs and cats often at all um they probably exist we can sometimes see them on x-ray but they are not nearly as common in dogs and cats as they are reported to be in people so those are all i think important things to know and there's i do want to make sure that we mention the ivus website um or the iris website it's the international renal information society iris like the flower like the and that's a great website for veterinarians and for clients it has um classifications of kidney failure stage one a stage one b stage one two a two b so you can kind of follow the playbook with your veterinarian there's a nice little compact guide that puts it all under one page but it goes into a lot of detail as well is when your dog's b u n gets to this level and the specific gravity is this and the protein in the urine is this that this is what you do for medication this is what you do for diet this is what you do for fluids so it's basically the playbook that's pretty universally um been accepted by most veterinarians because it was written by a bunch of veterinary experts that do renal failure you know all the nephrologists got together and said okay this is how we think we should manage these cases so it's really helpful for you to read through that so you're educating yourself and you're going into the vet and maybe you take the little pocket guide in and say so i have this um can you help me understand like am i here now and what do what do we do next um and we'll see sometimes dogs that do live several years with kidney failure if they're diagnosed early managed well and you're lucky that the dog has the reserves to do it and you can afford it um because it it is a little more expensive to buy prescription food it is um not terribly expensive for most of the medications that we use so if we use um benazapril and alapril tell them a certain um any of those to reduce the amount of protein loss in the kidneys those are very inexpensive medications um the last model middle size moderate size dog i put on tell them a sartan it was $16 for a month's worth so it's not it's not terribly expensive so you can very effectively manage these guys so super super important that people know that if they do some checking on prescriptions and and are careful with how they spend their money on their food and their their medications that they can actually do a pretty good job with these guys excellent okay well i cannot tell you how much i appreciate your time on a complicated and sort of deep topic that's hard to sort of pigeonhole so um i i really appreciate it and i think that there's an awful lot of us out there that have you to thank for the health and well being of our dogs true true well thanks so one other thing i do want to briefly mention is if the b u n is high and the creatinine is not it may be because your dog is eating a lot of meat or raw meat diet in particular so make sure you're honest with your veterinarians about what you're feeding and if your veterinarian says i think you need to do a diet change again you need to shake your head up and down because they did some really important work at the university of minnesota a couple of years ago a number of years ago where they compared dogs on regular dog food and prescription dog food for kidney failure and they were going to do a two-year study on these dogs so they had people bring in the bag of dog food that they were feeding and they mixed it all together in a hopper half of the dogs went out the door with a mixture of over-the-counter dog food half the dogs went out the door with hills kd diet and at the end of the first 12 months of the study they were going to go for two years they called the study off because so many more dogs were alive on the kd than on the over-the-counter dog food that they considered to be immoral and unethical to continue the study so they called it at a year so please listen to your veterinarians manage their diet manage their medications do what they ask you to do because you can get much better longevity if you do this with your head up and down and agree and don't continue to feed the other food or the raw meat diet or whatever else you're feeding or fail fail to give medication because you don't believe in medication i know how you it's not a religion people it's not a religion it's shocking but true and and so one final point and i think you've alluded to this but i really want to underline it having made my own special diet for a pug that was in kidney failure so having lived through this kidney problems low protein right yes protein low protein super protein yes yes so the snacks the treats need to be few and far between but not chicken not cheese not sausage watch the sodium you know be careful with that stuff if you insist on giving snacks give something that is approved by your veterinarian or the prescription diet companies because they do make lists of things carrots should be things like carrots are great like carrots yeah carrots Cheerios you know stuff like that not grapes and raisins that's really bad for their kidneys so avoid those just to say well and i mean there's a whole topic we can do on renal failure from consuming grapes and raisins but that's like a whole another thing yes and i think they're getting closer to figuring out the specifics of that so i think we need to rely on that because i think there's some newer information that will be coming soon oh cool well as soon as it exists marty will tell me and we will bring it to you guys there you go we'll be on it awesome as always well marty thank you so very much i really appreciate it listeners marty and i have finally made our way to youtube so if you want to enjoy all of the the benefit of the podcast with all of our silly facial expressions by all means by youtube and see my cluttered desk and marty's cool couch so all right thanks a lot marty bye


For me, being the best is making the right choices. I make choices not sacrifices in the way I live my life and the way I perform as a professional athlete. It's about being a better person and about being the best person you can individually. All right, here we go. Three, two, one. And then as a collective, as rugby, if each individual can be remarkable, that'll take you a long way to being successful. Nice. Good session.


No slumping. No slumping. No slumping. We don't want to see any slumpin' from you, man. I can slump.  I'm Ashley. I'm Rick. And please follow us on Instagram and Twitter! All juicy, confident. So juicy. And take your first photo on Patreon. Yes. And follow us on official Twitter accounts. Why don't you? Unless you don't like sarcasm. True. Don't follow me. And if that's the case, why are you here? But today we are doing a movie review of a film that just came out. We actually went to a movie theater and sat in a chair. Yeah, someone sat right next to me. It was weird. We had the four seats in the theater. We were the only ones there, except for one other person. Who chose to select their seat right next to us. The ticket lady Denise actually said, That's weird. Who does that? They saw that those seats were selected and chose to sit Rosa. We were the only tickets that were taken and she was like, I want to sit right by those people. Anyways, enough about that. She can rest your leg during the movie. Yeah, she was very gentle there. Okay, that's good. But we are going to review Article 15. This is going to be a small, non-spoiler review. Just because it's new. I want to tell you a little bit about it. And then tell you if we want to go see it or not. And then we're going to get into spoilers, obviously. No spoilers! You want to read the synopsis for me? I would love to read the synopsis. It sounds like a kind of fish you would eat. Okay. Set against the backdrop of... How do we say this word? What? Corbin? Corbinized it? No, I don't want to. You shouldn't. Badom? Something. I think it's badom. Whatever. Something. Okay, so the backdrop of something. Badom, gang rape.  And then we're going to do Article 14. Um... Anabav Sinha. Anabav Sinha's? Article 15 is a thrilling investigative drama based on true events. Gotcha. And it is directed by... Say this name for me, Rick, please. Anabav Sinha. Anabav Sinha. Writer and director. Yeah, Anabav. Director? Anabav, I believe. Anabav Sinha. He directed Mulk last year. And Rah won. A couple of years back. And obviously... Because we're in everything if it's Duhum 3. You don't know about that, sir. And it's starring... Say his name, because I can't. So Yushman Kurana. Yes. Yes, Andahan. Andahan. That's how you say it. Yeah. If you're new here. If you're new here. That's how you say that. In a whole bunch. We know. I'm an egg. I'm an egg. Other people. It was carbonized. Yes. But, obviously, this film, it also has some controversy behind it in terms of people thinking it's a propaganda film. We're not talking about any of that. Obviously, we don't know about the specifics of this event. And I think one of the things is like they explain the murderers and rapers as a certain cast. And it's supposed to be a different cast. Right.  Which we did? They murdered and raped somebody. It doesn't really... Doesn't matter who it was. And I think it was one of the points of the film. Yeah. I do, too.  So, like, we're not going to talk about that. Anything about that. Yeah, because we're so ignorant. We would never presume to know that we know what we're talking about when it comes to the tensions of the cast and religion and politics in India. We're still learning stuff. This is just about the film. Yeah. So, yeah, it started off with... You become spoilers. No. Oh. No, we're going to do a small little... Oh, a small little... Small little... Okay, I heard you say it's starting off with... No, no. Make it clear. You've clarified this. Okay, so what were your initial thoughts of the film? No spoilers or anything? Total, like, of the whole film. Yeah, of the whole film. One word went in my head. When it ended, one word went in my head and it was solid. I just thought it was... At every level, I thought it was solid. Absolutely. Script. The score is more than solid. There's a song at the end. I don't know who it is. You can let us know if that's like a rap group or just a bunch of different rappers. They were fantastic. They were so good. Yeah, great song at the end. The score? Score. As a whole... They had a whole... They had Bob Dylan in there. I know. It was a great theme for the entire thing. Yeah. Because I think there was one line in it that said how often... How long can you... What's the line in it? How long can you see it but can you don't see? Yeah, pretend you don't see. Yeah. Which is kind of... It was very cool to see them take because Bob Dylan, which you guys probably know, this is better than we do, but in America here in the 60s, he was the voice of a generation about what's wrong with America. And similarly, the message that's being conveyed in this is that... Which is one of the first films we've seen that is talking about... We've gotten messages on Instagram and even on the channel of people saying, we are happy that you love India and that you are just so enamored with us, but you've got to know that there's a dark underbelly that's... We know. And there is. Everywhere. And we know. We've been paying attention to news stories. We know about them. It happens everywhere. It does. It's not just over in India. In very different ways, but we can talk about that more. Yeah. So solid. That, the acting. Yeah. The whole cast. What's his name? Our lead? Yes. I'm sorry. Ayushman... Oh God, it's better over here. I have him over here. Ayushman Korana. I'm mad that I'm not having his name in my memory yet. He was phenomenal. Fantastic. His piano playing was spot on. I didn't bring it up. I didn't bring it up. There you go, everybody. Bam. Little jab there. But the entire cast, there was two... The two that were in love. The ensemble. The ensemble was solid. Yeah. But the two... The one that... And then his fiancee? Yes. They were fantastic. Fantastic. Great ensemble. This was one of the first films where I was thinking to myself... Who are they? Yeah. One, as usual. Who are they? This was just released here in America in the fall. I'd be thinking, hmm, maybe a SAG ensemble now for these guys. Yeah. Very important for Americans to see this film as well. Oh yeah, for sure. But yeah, the entire cast was amazing. The score was amazing. It's beautiful moments. The directing, I think was probably the star of it. He saw it again. So good. Because he had won... There was all around the whole directing, obviously the score and all that kind of stuff. But there were some shots, man. Some specific ones that were just so over the top. Beautiful. Yeah. And it was just... It was strong. Yeah. Messages and shots. Things that you wouldn't expect to be beautiful. Being beautiful, yeah. But different, like we have repeatedly talked about beautiful shots when we refer to Sanjay. It's not extraordinary. It's totally different. It's very simple. Totally different beauty. It's natural beauty. Natural beauty. Very much. Yeah. Not very different. Yeah, almost like a great photographer capturing something that's not even lit. It's just a moment that's caught. That's how I feel like this director did. Very much. And I'm quite interested in Mulk as well. Yeah. Because they say it's quite similar and they had... Apparently he's like a political guy, but like I said, don't really care. Yeah. And I think everybody was... I think everybody, Ayushman especially, he just carried the film. It was so good. He was. And you were rooting for him the whole time. There were a couple instances of the things I didn't like, obviously, but it's almost like every film now. It's the little supporting characters sometimes. Really small. Yeah. Really small. Yeah. This one wasn't even... I kind of like... Brushers off now. I don't know. You can let me know. How do they do extra work in India? Right. Because there's a whole process here in Hollywood of... Yeah. How do they do that? There's union actors. There's non-union actors. And then you can... Then you go from background to featured background. Yeah. Where you're not really even a... And then there's extra... Right. Yeah. So let me know. And then there was one audio issue that was really annoying. Which... Was it talking? I don't know when that guy was crying at the end. Yeah. I can't give away anything. But, yeah, there was one audio issue we could talk about later. But... Yeah, when he was... Yes. I would definitely give this a...  I'd give it an A. Solid A. I would give it an A. I loved it. It was gripping the whole time. Yeah. I never thought it was long. It never really dragged for me because I was interested. It was educational. Which is one of the things I liked about it. I don't know if you did, too. Yeah. Because as an American, we know about the caste system. Right. But we don't know the details of what's still going on. Obviously, it was way worse back in the day. But obviously... So it was very educational in that way and I liked it. And I think a lot of Americans should see it. And I'd imagine it's equally as important for Indians to see it. That live in big cities, kind of like this guy. Who wasn't aware of it because he was separated from it. Yeah. It seems like in America, the coasts are more progressive and accepting of different people and different lifestyles here on the coast. So there's New York or LA. And it seems like the big cities tend to be that way in India. In India. At least that's our understanding. Which makes sense. Even if we're not there. It's usually stereotypically the more educated areas. Because that's where the universities are. So that is where you get more people from different places in the world. The more popular places. I think that's general consensus everywhere. Yes, 100% go see this film. Let us know what you thought about it. Like I said, I don't care about the whole political stuff behind it. So that's what you're going to talk about. Yeah, we don't get tied into that. It's just about the film. So now spoilers. If you haven't seen it, go away now. Come back later and talk to us. And finish at this point. Mark, the notation of how many minutes in you are. I think come back to those minutes. But yes. Thank you. But yes, now we can talk a little bit more about it. And our likes, dislikes, anything we loved, anything we learned. You know, something I love that right off the top of my head is he maintained the pacing throughout. Yes. It was a fairly consistent pace. It didn't drag in one place he speed up. No, rentably good. Yeah. Just maintained this consistent, and he gripped you and then surprised you multiple times. Multiple times. Like I think when he, like I said, this is the spoilers. When he shot that one guy. Total shot. I was like, because I was like, this guy's, we can talk about him more because I really liked his character. Me too. Not liking him, but I liked what they did with his character. Yes. But when he shot him, I think we all, like, we're like, oh, didn't see that coming. I wasn't ready for that. Yeah. Okay. Is it still recording? Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Make it sure. Agreed. Yeah. There's a bunch of different shocking things like that. There's also suspense moments where you thought something, they were going to find something, and then they didn't. Yeah. It kept you light. It reminded me with the score and the direction of the pacing, a lot of some of the moments of the ending of season one of sacred games. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? We had that real heavy tent. I mean, moments where Ashley's starting to go, oh no, what are we going to see? Yeah. Oh yeah. Like when they went in the shed? Yeah. The score that just goes with it, like the music just builds with those very intense moments, and that's what gets me. Yeah. If it didn't have the music, I'd be like, okay, what's going to happen? The music just carries you to it. This director is very good with the score. Oh yeah. Like he knows how to use the score very, very well, which like one of the problems I had with Kavir saying is I think he was trying to inflect emotion when he could have didn't really need it. Sure. This guy knew when it didn't need it. Sure. And he knew when it needed it. He knew when it needed it. Yeah. It assisted the scene as a whole. I can see that. My personal preference obviously in everything is I love that I love the whole film as a whole. And I love it over the top, but I see where someone would say it kind of got a little sugary on me. But yeah, we can talk about some of the actors. That's really what I want to talk about. There was a ton. My two fave obviously outside of the main guy. Who is so awesome. Say his name again just so I can finally remember what his name is. The proper pronunciation is Ayushmen Kurana. I believe. Ayushmen. Ayushmen? Ayushmen. Ayushmen Kurana. Ayushmen Kurana. I do believe that's right. Ayushmen Kurana. Which is terrible. We've known him since Andahan. You're phenomenal, man. You did a phenomenal job. You're completely different than you were. We've only understood you. You're watching this, of course. But you're so different in this than you were in Andahan. And so I really respect that. And he was very reserved. And so it's hard to stand out like he did. But he really did. He carried it so well. Proof that he's a mature actor in that. Like Nawazidim. And others. Yes. And it's really... It takes a seasoned, strong, good actor to be in a role like this. And not be concerned about will I be engaging? Will I be entertaining? Will I be watchable? All of that has to go out. Because no one in their right mind is thinking that when they're just doing their job and living their life. He never tried to do anything. Which made him even more interesting to watch. Absolutely. Fully believed him. I believed everybody for the most part in this thing. The fat guy? What's his name? Okay. What was his name? The hefty guy. Yeah. What was his name and the thing? Just so I can find him here. It's with a B, I believe. It's a long name with a B. B, B, B. Yeah. I believe so. I couldn't tell if we had seen Ernie because he looked a little similar to the guy in Udapunja. Udapunja in a similar to the guy in Barfi. Yeah, Barfi. And in PK. Yeah, but I was like, it doesn't exactly look like him. I don't know if it was him. But I loved what he did. He did do really well. But I loved what the director did with his character. Yeah. Because he was shown a lot like feeding straight animals. Which is something you think of like a really nice person. A nice person. A nice guy. And just being this kind of like a pushover. Yeah. Kind of scared. Kind of scared. And let's not go into this when really the dude's hardcore. Hardcore. Evil, corrupt. Yeah. Not just hardcore. Like. Evil. Yeah. A murderer. Yeah. Rapist. Yeah. Rapist. So I love what they did with that character in terms of making him so like complex. And not just making this. Yeah. This guy's clearly a villain. Yeah. They showed him like as a human. He loves animals. Yeah.  It's a different topic but I don't want to forget it. Because we just mentioned that obviously the central thing going on is rape. Yeah. And I'm, I, there's a couple things, literally like two things in film that I just detest. Yeah.  And I like the objectifying sexually and hurting of a woman is just detestable to me to see. This was so well done to depict the horror of what that, because you've got to tell a story of, you can't not tell rape stories. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But I don't want to see a woman being raped. So I thought that the director did a master of like, I'm thinking of the moment when he walks into the room in the school. And you see it. And he's getting the flashes of what was really going on in there.  He showed us enough to disturb me and make me sick. Mm-hmm. But not. Make you feel so uncomfortable you can't continue watching. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then the others, I don't know who they are or if they're the average. Okay. That woman who I turned to you and said, here she is. She's so good. She's so good. Yeah. She's the fiance of that. Yes. Both of them. So good. Because he was captivating every scene. Like, well, obviously that one with them two was the moment with this breakdown. It was beautiful. And the way they shot that and just how he collapsed. Yeah. And they left it on them. Oh, it was so beautiful. Beautiful. One of the best scenes in the whole film. Yep. So when he was meeting with Osh. A Yushman. A Yushman. Yes. When he met with him. Yes. And they were talking. Yeah. They were sitting down with his fiance. It was right next to him. Yeah. That whole scene was so, so good. The dialogue between the two. And then obviously the one who's that guy that was the sweeper at one point. Yeah. He was so sweet. He was sweet. I know. That was a great scene they had where he slapped him. Mm-hmm. It was. Yeah. The sweeper. Yeah. Guess which is the whole. Obviously. Coming from America it's a very foreign concept to us of a caste system. Yeah. We've got prejudices. Obviously. Obviously. But not to the level of. But not untouchables. Yeah. It's basically the same thing as obviously we have racism here. Right. Very prevalent and always has been. Right. But we don't. The caste system is basically another form of racism. Right. With it. But we don't get to the level of this group of people or the ones who do the toilet cleaning. Yeah.  I mean some people probably do. They may feel that way. But not as a culture. But as a whole. And it was eye-opening. And I know it's obviously not all of India. It's. And that's what this guy also said. He was like. Like. I think one of the best lines in the whole thing was when he said. I used to tell people to come to India all the time. I was so proud. I was so proud of India. But how can I be proud? Of this. This is also going on. Mm-hmm. And she's like. She's not proud. I'm very proud. But am I supposed to be proud of this? Right. Because this is going. And obviously that happens. We have the KKK and Nazis still here in America. Woo-hoo. Yeah. Now it's so many people. Yeah. So obviously. Evil, awful things happen everywhere. But I thought that was a great line. It was. Yeah. And to bring that conflict of what he was going through. Yeah. He loves his country. And there's this sense of like patriotism that he has. And his love. Exactly. But at the same time he's like there are so many horrible things. Yeah. And feeling this conflict of I've never seen this side of it before. Right. How can I. How do I work with this emotion of I still love my country but I hate my country. Yeah. And this we've seen this in a lot of different things now. And it's not just India specific because it happens all over the world. Is the corruption of politics and law enforcement. Yep. Yeah. We've seen a lot of that. Yeah. I think that's pretty prevalent. Pretty high. Yeah. Which is sad. But it obviously once again happens everywhere. It does. And it's just a sad thing. But yeah. It shouldn't happen. That's kind of the whole reason why we have law enforcement and all that. One of my favorite things about because I got to learn. You know about the castings but you don't know all the details. Like the heartbreaking stuff that happened was they were drinking out of water out of their hands. Yeah. Because they wouldn't drink out of glasses in front of him. Yeah. So it's like what. Like we don't touch you. It's like no. We're less than you. Yeah. Like what? And then he was wanting something off somebody's plate. And he was like no. I'll get you. I'll get you. I'll get you a new one. It's like. Wait. What? Yeah. Which reminded me. Wait. We may still have this but it reminded me of the similar moment in Green Book when the guy is there cleaning up the place and he doesn't want the drink out of the same glass that his wife gave him. And she finds the glass in the trash again. I felt in this the same way I do feel watching those films. Yeah. How can you think that? Like. Exactly. It's so important to me. It just doesn't. It just doesn't. Like I said. No. This is not like all of India. It's gotten a thousand percent better than it used to be. Obviously it still goes on. Yeah.  Which I think is what this was trying to show. That parts of India it's still like this. Yeah. And it's still a prominent thing in the society that was out over for thousands of years. And this also gets blown out of proportion. But I've gotten messages and we do know about this that there are places in India where rapes like this happen and they're covered up and no one's punished. Yeah. It just happens like that.  It was like shut in close place. Like honor killing. Right. Okay. Wait. What? Right. Which I saw. That makes it better. I saw. Exactly. That's better. But I saw. Where it's killing children. Perfect. Yeah. I think it's a Netflix documentary. I forgot what it's called. I think it's Netflix. Pretty sure. Specifically about a current event from last year of honor killing happening. And I want to say it happened in I don't want to say where it happened. But I know it was it was either Afghanistan or.


from the MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas. Extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE covering Splunk.com 2015. Brought to you by Splunk. Now, here's your host, John Furrier. Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for Splunk.com. This is theCUBE SiliconANGLES flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the synth from the noise. We're winding down day two of two days of live coverage. We have 20 plus blog posts on SiliconANGLES.com. And again, 17 interviews today, 17 yesterday, a lot of great content. Go to SiliconANGLES.com, SiliconANGLES.tv, and wikibon.com for research. Our next guest here to talk more about security is Hyansong, SBP of Security Markets, and Monzy Merza, Senior Director of Cyber Research. So we got an executive and we got in the trenches. So this is going to be fun conversation. Welcome to theCUBE again. Good to see you again. Welcome back. So my first question is, before we get into some of the tactical things happening in the trenches, a lot of stuff going on the front lines in security, that certainly it's all over the news. So it's not something that needs to validate, it's hot. As a business, Splunk has really got traction with the security aspect of it. I don't want to say they backed into the security business, but your platform is extensible in the sense we've talked about this for the past four years. It's a solid platform. It's the Google search for once log files, but now all data. So the ingestion is magic. There's some secret sauce going on in this Splunk platform, but security is a hard nut to crack. How are you guys doing it? What's the secret sauce of getting and winning the security business? The secret sauce is to actually have people like Monzy on the team. So we've been taking a very solution-centric approach. And I think having a very strong machine data platform is such a strong foundation, like you said. It got us into this business, but having a relentless focus on providing solutions or Splunk Enterprise Security product went through a major sort of revs along the way and four releases in the last 18 months and ascended in the Gardner MQ. And it's all testaments, what we've been doing, trying to make sure we meet the customer's needs. And the other thing I just want to give you some props and kudos for how you do the keynotes. Especially like electric keynotes, love the keynotes. But you have a customer example. It's not just the quote, vendor pitching. It's Splunk saying, hey, here's what we're doing. And by the way, here's some customers that have been using the product. So really, I'd love to see that. So I got to go back to last year and ask. Last year was kind of a seminal moment in Splunk history because you had security front and center. On the keynote, you had some big names up there. We talked on theCUBE. And that was pretty obvious. You guys were doing some business there, but what happened after Splunk 2014? Did you guys just saying double down? Let's nail this. You mentioned some stats about doing some stuff really fast. What came out of 2014? Just a massive resurgence to just double down the product and the solutions? Yeah, I think we definitely doubled down on getting more people onto the team. Double down, getting more expertise. And I really think it's last year, literally I look at .conf as the security market's coming out party. And since then we have coined the analytics-driven security as our brand and really went hard at adding a lot of capabilities into our ES product. Not only that, we went and acquired company in behavior analytics. So I think doubling down from that angle, maybe tripling 10X down in that. So really delivering on what we mean by adding analytics into our portfolio. So we'll look back next year, we'll do a little KPI analysis on, was this year the inflection point for solutions? So I think that's kind of what you're kind of seeing right now. Yeah, this is year not only for solutions, basically from a security market perspective, I'm providing multiple solutions. So we're not having a portfolio at a company level, we're having a portfolio at the security market level. Yeah, I mean, I want to get into some of the tactical things, but I like how you guys decoupled platform from the solution because you don't, you can do a lot more very highly cohesive things in the security lens into the platform. So I got to get into the trenches. So you're out on the front line talking to customers, what's going on with the solution? Obviously you're getting good thumbs up, but where's the action right now? If you had to kind of heat map kind of security and say, hey, the attacks, the threats and the challenges, the opportunities, malware, phishing, DDoS, all of the above, where's the action at? Where are the bombs dropping, so to speak? I think when you look at the news coverage, you see bombs dropping everywhere. There's challenges all across the board, but I think what we're observing really is when we look at the recent breaches and recent attacks, we're seeing that really the credential usage and credential really misuse and abuse is at the core of all of these different activities. So whether it's financial services, whether it's retailers or online banking and all of these different organizations, they're all seeing that at the core of it. And so the challenge that I think a lot of customers have is there's this ability to connect the dots and for the analysts to really exercise their intuition. So a lot of the customers that I speak with, they have problems that are falling into two buckets. They either are in the camp where they say, I really don't know what to do and I really want Splunk to help me understand what that is. And then the other camp is to say, my analysts know exactly what to do, but my current product or other technologies don't enable me to exercise my creativity. And so those are the two places that we're naming, just like I had mentioned, with bringing in machine learning and data science in the capability, we're really trying to level the game up for the folks that need that extra assistance and want us to deliver and prescribe a solution. And then on the other side, you see all these new capability that we announced this week with Enterprise Security and other technologies on really saying, we get it, analysts are the core. And we're going to enable those analysts to do the best that they can do and exercise their own capability and intuitions. So let me ask you a question. When you walk into a customer, and let's just say they're a Splunk customer, they've been using the ES for a while, they're doing all the machine data, then they say, oh, actually all this machine learning, all this new stuff happening, you get called in, we want to call Splunk into the security conversation. What do you tell them? Like when you say, what's the opening line for you? Say our platform, how do you describe the value proposition in a way that gets them excited to the next level? Is it just the effectiveness of getting the data fast and turning around the data visualization, the intelligence, the insight, or do you go into more of, this is a solution for the lens? I mean, how do you talk through that? So I talked to them the same way that I understood the solution many moons ago. I was a Splunk customer before I was a Splunk employee. So I bought and paid for Splunk. It tends to be the case, the new CTO was a customer too. It was in the keynote last week, we interviewed him today. He's a kid in the candy store, he said. Absolutely, and because I think that's, because that's truthful, right? That I know the pain, I know the burden, I know the product, I know the threat landscape. And so the conversation that I have with the customer is, let's talk about the problems. Let's talk about what you're challenged with. And really what it boils down to from an opening statement perspective is, we say, well, what is security data? All data is security data. So we, and we come to the conclusion. You go right to the data. Data conversations right up front. Yep. Absolutely, because it's about the threats that the customers are challenged with. It's about the data that they want to look at and it's really, it's their ability to understand what sort of things that they want to address and what's important to them, right? So as an example, you look at an Apache log and you say, well, who's property is that Apache log? Does it belong to the IT team? Does it belong to the retail team? Does it belong to finance? Does it belong to security? Well, it belongs to everybody because the finance guy might look at it and go, well, it's interesting. People are buying more flowers from somewhere right now. And the IT guy might look at it and go, well, my web server is doing this many transactions. The security guy looks at it and go, well, this is very peculiar. I have never seen anybody purchase anything from this geolocation before, right? So it's the same data set. You got to get access to the data. That's number one, right? That's absolutely. So how do you get through the data horrors?  You know, there are people who look at the data as a competitive advantage and don't want to give it up. They don't want to give access. Or they just are hoarding the data. How do you guys break through that? What do you mean? Just stop them around a little bit and say, hey, come on, you want to get hacked? Or, I mean, is it that easy? Or is it- So I think that's where the experience comes to play again, right? It's as having been a customer, having lived through those things and having, trying to democratize the access to information and especially for security purposes. It's about, it comes right back to people again. It's because it's every data hoarder is hoarding the data because they feel that there is some value in it that enables them to do their job or provide some job security or whatever that is. Or they feel sensitive about the information because they feel that nobody else should have it because they really seriously care about the stewardship of that information. And I think it's a matter of a conversation to help them see that this data helps them do things better or faster or helps them- So you have to provide some comforts so there's no cognitive dissonance for them to give up the data. So you have to address their concerns on privacy and security. Yes, absolutely. And you're comfortable with that right now and it's a different solution. Absolutely. Yes. And also delivering value. So they can see when their data is put together with other data, there's additional insights that they can gain that they wouldn't have if they didn't. I mean the ROI question is almost ridiculous in security because the ROI is so massive it's like you don't even have to, it's an order of magnitude. It's like the security analysis on earlier, I asked him if he sized the TAM for the security market and he goes, I haven't gotten to that. I go, well, you just say it's huge, it's big.  So the question comes back down to how does that ROI get to the customer? In the products that you guys have, does it come through the insights? Because again, one outlier of data, one insight could open up a whole nother window of analysis that could either protect or see breach. I mean that's just ROI right there. Just write the check, PO's in the system. It's also like you said, it's top of mind for everybody, right? It's top of mind for the board, for the CEO, for the employees, even for just our regular people because the breaches that we've seen this year touched everybody's lives. So it's not just the ROI, it's just are you solving the problem that's keeping me up at night? So Monza, what's the top three conversations at you? We'll do a little pattern recognition in the spirit of machine learning, you know. I like that. So what's the top three patterns that you're seeing in the conversation with your customers that keep coming up over and over again? I think customers are, most of our customers are ready to take the next step in their own maturity process for security operations. So if we draw some sort of a continuum, right? We look at how things have been done in the past where you use signatures or specific indicators for something and customers get it. They use that, signatures are important, but there's something more and what's more. So in recent couple of years with Splunk and with other technologies, say well it's around analytics and it's around being able to understand what that is. Now they're starting to get comfortable with that and they're saying okay I get it, I see the analytics, but now because of these analytics I'm stuck in this alert world. I'm just constantly, I get these alerts, these alerts are good, I get them, but now I got to work them. So what is, how do I get to that next level of solving those, the next set of problems because I can't put enough people even if every single one of my alerts was absolutely important. What's my next level? So I want to ask you guys kind of a philosophical topic, kind of end the segment on a kind of like relaxing note. How important is the concept of open data for building security solutions? Open data meaning sharing the day. We're in a sharing economy. Now APIs now are dominating the conversation because there's no perimeter anymore. So what's happening is you have a lot of things going on whether it's direct connect, peer-to-peer, anonymous networks, bypassing the internet from the DDoS all the way up to the edge of the point of edge-to-edge security. It kind of counterintuitive, well I'm going to open that up. So what's open data mean to you guys? How important is that concept? That's a great question. I think philosophically, we're in the security world where we're preaching to the industry that it takes a village and we need to collaborate and collaboration starts with information sharing. So we're very much on board to open that up so we can do things. However, we want to make sure the data is shared. It's accurate and the data shared is actually actionable. That's actually is our focus. And ensuring the privacy and security concerns of the person sharing it, right? And making sure that sharing does not cost them more liabilities. That's where we need the government and the legislation support. So big fan of that and we've been very much supporting a lot of the things that's going on. There's some policy stuff in there. How about on the product side? I think, and related to the same topic that Haiyan's talking about, data sharing is not just about indicator sharing or threat intelligence sharing. It's really about recognizing that security is an ecosystem problem and an ecosystem solution. And so what we are working on a lot of our partners is to say, how is it that we take all of these different disparate systems and allow them to communicate with each other? So that when you have a specialized system, for example, in security space, people talk about firewalls a lot. So if you have a firewall, how do I enable a firewall to speak with a Splunk? How do I enable a Splunk to speak with an endpoint system and so on, so forth, right? So that it's really up to the consumer at the end of the day, it's their data. So it's, and a lot of customers now are starting to react to that to say, I talked to vendor X, Y and Z and they said, well, this data is in a proprietary data store and I can't get into it, it's my data. I want it. And I understand that I paid the vendor to do something. And so I think that collaboration and, but then the ecosystem is really was going to drive a lot of these systems. Yeah, I think you guys are proven to the market, in my opinion, that more the data interacts with each other, even from different disparate sources, makes the overall insight more valuable. I mean, we see that some of the stuff we're doing at the SiliconANGLE and the CrowdChat side. So, but again, if the challenge is more of a politics or policy, open up the data and then the, can the products ensure kind of that SLA of the security? But I think we're making, I'm sorry. I was going to say one comment is we've been very much being used as a lot of customers at the nerve center for them and connecting all the different pieces together. And directionally, not only we want to be the nerve center for one customer, we want to create a connected set of nerve centers where everybody can benefit from the latest learnings. Well, that's a good point. The nerve center is really good. I think it's working. We had a lot of people on theCUBE this week, today and yesterday, FireEye. We had Independence, we had Analysts, we had Palo Alto Networks. So your ecosystem seems to be embracing this nerve center concept, so congratulations. And that's only going to make the solutions better. I mean, that's the whole idea is that customers are going to make choices. They need, to your point, we want to be able to connect all these pieces together and more data is going to bring more value and really provide the, what is it that we're trying to protect ourselves from? I just think it's phenomenal. I mean, you guys have 10,000 customers which is great accomplishment. You guys are growing up and how tall can you grow? That's what we said in the morning yesterday in the analysis segment, but Cisco's got 50,000 customers. They have five times more customers just on the UCS side and they're partnering with you. Palo Alto Networks, bulletproof security on the hardware side, that adds to your solution. So one plus one equals three in this. So you guys see that same thing out in the field? Absolutely. Okay, final question, what's next? What's going to happen this year? So when we do theCUBE next year, we say, okay, how do we do? What's your goals? What's your top three? No, I'm only kidding. Yeah, but what's your goals for the year? What do you want to do for this next year? I think one of the things that's really, really obvious and very distinctive this year is people are, you know, last year people moved from just thinking about prevention to detection. And this year I think we're moving from just thinking about detection to early detection and not only early detection, but detection in a way you can enable people to do rapid response. So next year I hope to come back and talk to you a lot more about how we can enable our customers to really take care of the issues that they have to deal with versus just get to know about them. Monsie, how about you? What's your goals besides not having gray hair because of all the bombs dropping but staying alive, what's your goals for the year? I think one of the things that we're seeing that's evolving, what I would like to see is more sharing from a customer perspective amongst how we do, and not just about an indicator, but about threat intelligence and what customers are doing with Splunk and make that very easy to share tactics and techniques to operationalize things. And really start to step up, we talked about the two basic pillars, right? Going from indicators to analytics and really going from analytics to have every customer have the ability so that they can develop their own threat intelligence so they can not, to Hian's point, not just understand this alert but understand the broader consequences of what happens when this particular activity is going on so they can drive mission and business better.  So keep acting like a startup, I think the culture will continue to thrive. Customers love Splunk, so it's been a lot of fun. So thank you. Customers, what made it successful? It's leading us into new places, we're forever grateful. You have customers and a fan base all in one. So congratulations, this is theCUBE, we are live here in Las Vegas and thanks for watching and this is the wrap up of day two, thanks for watching theCUBE and look for us at our next event, we got Big Data NYC, we got AWS ReInvent and a lot more, check out thecube at SiliconANGLE.tv. Thanks for watching.


Welcome back to Tennis Talk, my name's Cam Williams and the ATP have come out and said that they're going to be making changes to some of the regulations going into the 2022 season, particularly regarding medical time-outs and also the bathroom breaks, which has been a big issue over the last couple of months. This is what a source from the ATP has come out and said. So a source from the ATP has come out and said there will be a change to the rules for bathroom breaks and on-court medical time-outs as well. I hope that before the next season begins in January, we will have a stricter rule when it comes to toilet breaks and medical time-outs. I think it's getting to the point where it's definitely becoming a big issue. It's been an issue for a long time, but we are taking quite a serious approach now to try and change it. So there you have it. The ATP have come out and said that they are going to be changing some of the medical time-outs and of course the toilet breaks, which has been a big issue in the past. So as the regulations stand at the moment, you can have a medical time-out for three minutes during your match and we all know that some players use them for their benefit. Some of them obviously aren't as injured as maybe as they perceive, so it would be interesting to see what they do to change that over the next couple of years and of course into the new season. But it's the toilet breaks. They have been the biggest issue with players like Andy Murray, Alexander Zverev coming out and saying against guys like Sissy Pass that the toilet breaks are just taking way too long. But it is interesting because there's players like Novak Djokovic who have come out in support of Sissy Pass and he obviously does use a lot of the toilet breaks as well, maybe not to the extent of Sissy Pass, you know, seven, eight minutes long. But he does actually use them to his benefit as well because the rules do say you can leave the court once in a three-set match or twice in a five-set match, but there's no time limit. That is being the biggest issue. There's no time limit on how long you can leave the court. Let me know down in the comments below. What do you think the time limit should be? Should it be five minutes to go to the bathroom between sets and come back? At the moment it seems to be about seven or eight minutes with guys like Sissy Pass who take way longer than probably most players would appreciate. We know Zverev and Murray definitely don't appreciate Sissy Pass leaving the court between sets for eight minutes at a time. Let me know down in the comments below. What do you think is the perfect time for a toilet break between sets? So the ATP, they're making a change to medical timeouts and toilet breaks going into the new season.