And to you, our viewers, who have joined us today for today's discussion on GIS. Welcome to Surviving Sexual Assaults, The Healing. A panel discussion organized by the Casteries East Youth and Sports Council. My name is Desil Diane Frances, and I will be your moderator for today's discussion. In January to October 2022, there were 227 reported cases of sexual assault institution. Sexual assault is, or sexual violence, as defined by the World Health Organization, is accelerating from verbal harassment to forced penetration and an array of types of coercion from social pressure and intimidation to physical force. Over the years, we have seen a drastic increase in the prevalence of sexual violence in our societies. Therefore, it's putting in that we have these kinds of discussions today. To encourage survivors to come forward, also to bring the stigma surrounding these discussions. And finally, to bring some justice to the survivors. Today, during our discussion, we will address the impacts of sexual violence, the services available, and how we can advocate against sexual violence. To assist us with this discussion, we have our panelist, Dr. Bennett Charles, who is a social and behavioral intervention specialist and is currently the communication specialist and leads the Caribbean Office of PCI Media, an international behavioral change organization. Dr. Charles has worked with a number of national and regional organizations, such as the Caribbean HIV and Age Alliance and Population Services International. Dr. Charles brings with him 20 years of experience working with communities disproportionately affected by environmental, health, and social justice issues. PCI Media, the Caribbean team, headed by Dr. Charles, recently partnered with UNICEF and the EU-funded Caribbean Spotlight Initiative to develop a regional behavioral change communication strategy to end violence against women and girls in the Caribbean. Next, right next to Dr. Charles, we have Andrew Sir Octav, who is a young professional who currently sues as the president of the Casseteries East Youth Sports Council with her passion and love for people and personal development, for financial literacy and entrepreneurship. She holds an associate degree in business administration with an area of expertise in business development. Ms. Octav is also an entrepreneur. The owner of the business, A Gift For You, is a company that creates customized gift products and gift experiences. Ms. Andrew Sir Octav believes in the Ubuntu philosophy. I am because you are. As it channels her to be grateful and grounds her in the life of Suventud. On the right of Andrew Sir, we have Onan Jovey, who is a licensed counseling psychologist with a master's in counseling psychology and a BSc in a bachelor's degree in psychology. He has over two years, two decades, sorry, in the helping profession, mostly as a male nurse at the Golden Hope Hospital and then the National Mental Wellness Hospital. He served as a counselor at the Boys Training Center, excuse me, he served as a counselor at the Sir Iris Seaman Secondary School and a guidance counselor at the Boys Training Center. He's a psychologist and a psychotherapist at the Mental Wellness Center, also a part-time lecturer and teaching psychology courses at the Saffel-Louis Community College and at present, he is a psychologist and psychotherapist in the Ministry of Health, Community Services, Mental Health Team. Thank you, Mr. Jovey. Right next to Mr. Jovey, we have Ms. Chelsea Foster, who is Executive Director of Global Feather St. Lucia. So, Chelsea Foster is also the founder of Global Feather, which is a local nonprofit and mentorship advocacy organization in St. Lucia. Established in 2014, Global Feather uses an integrated approach of community and school-based interventions to raise the consciousness of adolescents about gender equality. Global Feather's main advocacy messages includes advocating for the rights of marginalized girls on issues such as juvenile justice reform, gender-based violence and sexual and reproductive health and mental health. Ms. Foster has been recognized for contributions in the development of adolescents receiving various awards within the period of 2017 to 2019, including Youth of the Year and was appointed the Commonwealth 73rd Point of Light Award by the Queen Elizabeth II for volunteer work. Thank you, panelists. So, we're jumping right into our first question. And considering this year, 2023, has been declared globally the Year of the Youth. Just to start off today's program, can you each give us a brief summary of the work that you do with youth and sexual abuse? Mr. Charles? Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. We, in terms of PCI media, I think over the years, our focus has really been a lot on ensuring that we create programs that target behavior change. We actually, couple of years ago, we focused on the work of the United and Strong, which is an LGBT organization, and at the same time, worked with a number of agencies in St. Lucia to ensure that, as much as possible, that young people had some level of one awareness in understanding the various issues that they faced in countries like St. Lucia and the wider Caribbean region. So, this initiative was actually an OECS-based initiative with a number of products created from radio drama to community-based interventions where young people themselves were actually involved in telling their stories and actually being able to interact with community members and hear what they thought of young persons. My previous life working within other organizations, especially in the field of HIV, sexual reproductive health was actually a very key focus of us. During that time, we were dealing with the epidemic of HIV, and so a lot of community-based interventions were actually going into the communities, going into strip clubs where a lot of young persons actually sort of went for some level of pleasure. So, this initiative that we've worked in has always focused on one, ensuring that there's a level of interventions that promote behavior change because we strongly believe that you can build an awareness, but if there are no strategies to facilitate behavior change, it's really like spinning top in murder. So, throughout the 20-plus years, a lot of focus has really been on community interventions, grassroots intervention. Yes, the policies are important, but for us, being at the wrong level and working with the persons who are affected has really been the key focus of my work and the work of the number of organizations that are still within the past. Thank you so much, Dr. Charles. We will go right on to meet Octav. Hi, good morning. I have actually not worked within the sexual violence department at all. However, I am a survivor of sexual assault. What I realized, and the reason that we're having this discussion today is because many a time, it's not something that is really spoken about. And when the conversation does come up, it's shattered by a lot of shame, a lot of guilt, it's a very taboo topic. So, as 2023 being the year of the youth and the conversations we'll have with a number of different young persons that I work with within my capacity as president of the council and members of my executive themselves, we realize that right now is the opportunity for us to bring light on this. Let the youth know that there are people who are willing and able to help them. Let them know that there are safe spaces where they could talk about the things that they've encountered, their experiences. Let them know that there is hope to heal, grow and move on from that. So, there's a reason that we're here today. Thank you so much, Mesa. You're welcome. Mr. Juvie, right on to you. Okay, good morning to everyone and this morning. In my capacity as a psychotherapist and as a psychologist in community working with the youth, it will be more on a therapy basis. So, when the clients, especially the youth, have various psychological issues, that's when I interact with them. So, it's more for counseling and for psychotherapy. The other activities that I do engage with the youth is a lot of presentations and workshops. So, whatever topics that sometimes the school counselors need assistance with, they will contact me and we collaborate to bring light on different topics for the youth, both at the secondary, primary and in the community setting. Thank you so much, Mr. Juvie. Right on to you, Ms. Foster. Right, so, with Girls of a Feather, we work directly for youth and with youth, primarily adolescent girls. And when I started this work and I have to attach a number 10 years ago, I was much younger. I realized that there were very few organizations that actually focused primarily on gender-based violence, violence against women and girls. And we realized that this was a niche we needed to tap into. So, our focus is really on building the capacity of youth leaders in understanding how to advocate for violence against women and girls, gender-based violence, as well as now in the past two years, since the COVID-19 pandemic, we have delved a little bit into service provision. So, we launched our online counseling telehealth platform, where survivors of abuse, now both men and women, girls and boys, can actually receive free counseling from a range of different psychologists. So, clinical social workers, clinical psychologists and psychiatrists. So, we are happy that we're able to expand that service and we can continue to educate young persons in that field, both in schools and in communities, on how they can run programs themselves and how they can get assistance as young persons and survivors. Thank you, Chelsea. And thank you to all the panelists. You are doing very good work. Before we move on to more questions, if you or anyone has experienced any form of sexual violence, recovery services are available through the Venerable Person's Team at 458-6023 or at 287-6664 or the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 202. They both are free, confidential and open 247. So, Andrea, as a survivor, what are some of the ways that you've coped? How have you or how do you hope to use your position as the president of the Castries East Youth and Sports Council to educate leaders and youth that you serve? As a survivor of sexual assaults, I could relate to persons who have had the same experience and it's not an easy thing. When something like that happens to you, you honestly have two choices. You either take the experience and it's unfortunate to say it like that because it's something that you have experienced. You take the experience and you allow it to make you a better person or you allow it to take your life from you. And a lot of times we see that it takes the life from a person, whether you're a man or a woman, it takes your life from you because now you connect yourself to this thing that has happened to you and it impacts you negatively. For me, I was very fortunate at the time that it happened that I had a really good teacher at school. I had a primary school that happened for about two years. I had a really good teacher at school and I wasn't even aware of what was going on. She was teaching a topic of health science, sexual abuse, going into that topic and I'm like, oh, this is what is happening to me. And I shared it with a friend and my friend was the one who actually told my teacher I did not have the courage or confidence to tell her. From there, everything pretty much moved very quickly. I went into counseling. I took counseling for about a year. It did not leave, but it got better. I was taught to cope with my anger, counting back rules from 10, learning to forgive the person, more over forgive myself because I need to let this go in order for me to grow. Moving on, it still did affect me as I got older, it affected my life sexually. I was not a very open person. And with these things, what I was able to do is instead of just sitting and sulking, I would be able to pinpoint certain things about myself. Okay, this is happening to me, but why? Backtrack for going to and being able to identify the systemic from this problem and how do I move on from that? At the time, free counting was not something that I was really aware of. So what I started to do was go on YouTube and actually listen to self-help videos, listen to different people's experiences, what were some of the things that they did, and that is how I learned some healing and coping mechanisms to move on from my experience. As it relates to what I plan to do is to take that experience and the knowledge that I have gained and share with them. Let them know that this is not the end of the all. You don't have to carry the weight of that for the rest of your life. It does not need to define you. There is help, there are people who have had the same experiences as you. So there is a safe space. Be the shoulder that you needed or if you know somebody who has experienced somebody like myself, I'm modern-willing and open to talk about it. I'm modern-willing to share. I'm modern-willing to stare you in the right path. Now we have people like Dr. Bennett Charles, Dr. Bennett Charles, sorry. We have Ms. Ornandu Vey and we have Ms. Chelsea Foster. These are safe spaces. These are people who you could talk to and they will stare you in the right direction. So I plan to use my platform as President of the Cassuries East Sports Council to provide guidance and a way forward. Thank you so much, Andresa. You're welcome. Thanks for sharing. I will jump right into Mr. Jovey. Though the majority of sexual assaults with victims are women, men are also victims. How can we make men more comfortable reporting and speaking out about experiences with sexual violence? Okay, very interesting question. All in all, the whole topic of sexual abuse and assault is still very taboo, even with ladies. They don't feel comfortable coming out and expressing what the trauma that they went through. And women are more expressive than men. So for a man to open up and say that they were assaulted is very, very, very difficult. And some men will live their whole life never expressing that trauma. So for men, they have to realize that keeping all that negative stuff, the trauma that occurs, can affect their life going forward. So it's best that they can come out, especially to professionals, persons that they can trust, the doctor. Because sometimes men, sometimes women have the physicals. So in that setting, they can bring it up with the doctor. They can bring it up with the pastor or with a priest or with a professional counselor or a psychologist. But it's very difficult. Men like to bottle up their feelings. They don't like to express it. We are not expressive. So we keep it bottled up and it affects them going forward. A mental health condition that affects both sexes, men and women is PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And usually this occurs a month after a traumatizing event occurs. And individuals have different symptoms. And one of the symptoms is relieving that experience. Okay, so the intrusive thoughts, they cannot pass by the area where maybe the incident occurs. They try to avoid it. The behavior, they get very irritable. They have outbursts, angry outbursts. They cannot sleep. They have nightmares. All these are signs and symptoms that affects both men and women who are traumatized by a sexual assault. Okay, another issue, especially for young men and young girls, usually when they experience such trauma, there are certain signs that parents or guardians do not pick upon. So for a reason, a youngster like going by a particular family member or a friend. And all of a sudden there's resistance. They don't want to go there. Sometimes parents do not pick upon that a day, but why? All of a sudden, my child doesn't want to go there anymore.  And that's why they don't want to go there again. So as parents, we have to be vigilant about those little signs that our kids give us to safeguard the mental and even the physical well-being of it. Thank you so much, Mr. Jovey. And we'll jump right into Dr. Charles. Research shows that sexual violence impacts people of all identities and that some groups of people are disproportionately affected. Expanding, broadening and rethinking sexual violence impacts and services are critical to movement building. Dr. Charles, in one minute, as an expert in social behavioral change, how do you see interventions such as these being used in sexual violence prevention? Thank you very much. I think I want to go back to what I think Mr. Jovey said, which is so critical. And for example, let's look at men, which is not spoken about a lot. And although predominantly women are the ones predominantly affected by sexual violence, we don't speak about the issue when it comes to men also. And Mr. Jovey made a point when he spoke about men not being able, not men not coming out and speaking about it. And you asking the person about how do we deal with intervention that is supposed to target that. One, first thing that predominantly interventions target women, women and girls, for the particular reason we understand that, but you don't have interventions that are designed to target men. That's one thing. The other thing, men are groomed and raised to not be expressive. The expression may not be verbal, but they do express it other ways. You know, they are non-physical cues and are verbal cues to that. So if you're going to design interventions, you must understand that the intervention you need to understand, the psyche of the individuals that are affected. Men and women psychologically are really not the same. They are very different. And so an intervention may work for a woman. For example, you may have a safe space when you walk in, you would see a female nurse. Yes? When you walk into the police station of VPT unit, predominantly you see women. When you look at men and they're dealing with trauma, you may have to readjust that. And this is where we come in. As an organization, understanding that what is it that works with the particular target group? We have to be very cognizant of that. And not because it works for women or it works for girls or boys, it will work for the other gender, for the other ethnicity even. And so for us, understanding the culture of the survivor, understanding the gender and everything that comes with it, plays a key role in designing interventions that will facilitate that person coming forward. And this is why we speak a lot about knowing one the community the person comes from, everything that connects that person and how do you within your own culture? For example, look at St. Lucia, the culture of St. Lucia and men going and accessing services, is that something that we openly accept? No, it's not. So campaigns and initiatives must be very direct and must zoom in on the individuals themselves to be, you know, to actually facilitate the change that we want to see happen at the end of the day. Thank you so much, Dr. Childs. And we'll be taking a break right now, but when we come back, we will be speaking with this foster on our organization and how they impact survivors of gender-based violence. Stay with us. From the garden of your lips, cleanse silence, of attained perpetual violence, grow righteous tongues and loving hands of truth, for your tears, harvest health, guide our youth. A program brought to you by the Ministry of Youth Development and Sports in collaboration with the Cachries East Stevens Sports Council. So we have with us here, Ms. Foster, who is the Executive Director of Goals of a Feather. And my question to you, Chelsea, is we recently saw the conclusion of one of the programs at your organization launched on gender-based violence. Can you tell us a bit about the project and how your organization worked towards addressing gender-based violence? Okay, so the project that we launched was a partnership with the Spotlight Initiative. Bennett touched on that a little bit, but we were one of the recipients of that award earlier this year. So it's a partnership with the European Union and UN Women. And the main focus is reducing family violence, gender-based violence, and violence against women and girls. And under this project, we focus on expanding digital support and co-competencies of youth-serving organizations to reduce GVB. So I mentioned previously our telehealth platform. So we use that opportunity to upscale our website. So we now have a digital directory. And Adrienus mentioned that she had to use YouTube videos to actually seek help. She did not know where to go at the time. And right now, what we want to do is to ensure that everybody knows where to go. I think that's always the question, who do I go to, what do I do? So it was important for us to ensure that young persons knew who to contact. And the website now is very, it's based on locations. So you can get services based on where you are located geographically and the type of counselors that you wanted to access as well, so based on the specialties. Another component of that project was capacity building. So we hosted a three-day training with organizations who work with survivors and who are interested in working with survivors. So that was pretty successful in terms of us creating that dialogue. And one of the things that came out of that was really using a multi-agency approach when it comes to gender-based violence. So there was a lot of fruitful discussion in terms of what are the gaps that we need to meet? What are the ways that we ourselves need to build our capacity when working with survivors? How do we finance it? How do we collaborate better? And the final component of that project, we created our very own PSA that we use in five secondary schools where we did a school store. So we broke down our PSA to kind of break down what were some of the key topics when we talk about gender-based violence that we see in our everyday lives in schools. So we spoke to the kids about consent, toxic masculinity, where to go to for help, how to speak to a survivor. So that PSA was really educational. The kids got to give their feedback. And they actually thought of some of the things that they can do in their schools in terms of initiatives and raising awareness. So it was important that we created knowledge products that were centered on youth that they could use and that they could really understand and digest when it comes to talking about that sensitive topic. So there were three components of scaling our telehealth service, providing free counseling, the training component, as well as creating those knowledge products for young persons in relation to GBB. Thank you so much, Ms. Foster. I have a question for everyone. All panelists hang up. One minute to answer. We have recently enacted the New Domestic Violence Act in St. Lucia, one that has been recognized as the most progressive in the Caribbean. What are your thoughts on this new legislation, particularly for youth? Bennett? Sure. One minute. My thing, sadly, it took us 20-plus years to get there. It was a long journey. But at least we're there now. It was started by Lauren Williams when she was, I believe she was either the Attorney General then or the Minister of Health. I can't recall, but she was the one who really started this. And it took us 20-plus years to get there. But we're there. My biggest issue with the new gender policy is ensuring that there's an action plan attached to it. And I'm very, very worried about that. You can have very nice policies. If there aren't ways to implement this and that the services that are supposed to be made available within the gender policy are not easily accessible, you're actually creating more problems. So I believe that there needs to be a serious action plan made available along with a campaign that people understand what this new policy is about and how they themselves can come forward and speak about what they've experienced and how they could get services to assist people's issues. Thank you, Dr. Charles. We will move on to Ms. Octav. Yes, I can honestly agree with everything that Dr. Charles has just said.  Many of the times it looks really good on paper to see that we're going to do this or this is what is going to happen or this is what we plan to do. But then, like he said, where's the implementation plan? Or what are the steps that are going to be taken in order to implement this kind of legislation? Are you taking into the holistic aspect of the process and whether or not it will be really effective when the time comes for you to implement it? Thank you. Lisa, Mr. Jovey. Okay, I will echo the sentiments of my two panelists also. The legislation on paper might be very good but the implementation, and since I'm more of a psychologist council, I'm looking at the emotional aspect of it, both for the survivors, the victims and the persons actually doing the act on the persons. What do we have for them also? Just lock them up and leave them there. They also need to have that rehabilitation on them also. When they are released, they don't continue that same cycle. So both sides have to have the services presented to them. Thank you so much, Ms. Foster. I don't know if you need to hear my perspective because I think I share the same opinion as everyone. And I see in our audience today we have a lot of young persons. And of course, I want to mention that it is progressive in the sense that the changes we've made for those who don't know, it is now gender inclusive or gender neutral as they want to say. It expands the definition of what domestic violence is.  And really places the responsibilities on the right agencies and as science who's responsible for what. But just as all my panelists has mentioned, what is the action plan? We know that in St. Lucia, we do not have a GBV strategy, right? And that is from very recent reports as of this year, early this year. We do not have a GBV strategy in St. Lucia. We do not have GBV specialists in St. Lucia. We do not have a right in the machinery or strong gender machinery in terms of persons, attached to government departments, who can support survivors. So there's a lot of things in terms of needing to coexist with this Domestic Violence Act that I think we need to now put our attention to we spend the past year, yes, bragging and raving about this act. But I think now we need to redirect the conversation in terms of, okay, what is that mercy agency approach going to look like? How are we going to set up these systems and mechanisms to put in place all of these action plans that this Domestic Violence Act speaks to? So I think we all share the same opinion on this. Thank you so much to our panelists for this insightful answers to the question. So another question for everybody. In your respective line of work, what are some of the challenges and improvements that you think we need to make to reduce gender-based violence or sexual violence in a solution? Andruisa. Can you just repeat the question one more time? Sure. In your respective line of work, what are some of the challenges or improvements you think we need to make to reduce gender-based violence or sexual abuse or violence in solution? The first step for me in my humble opinion is start the conversation. A lot of times we, again, going back to the legislation and all of these things, it looks really good on paper. When it comes to implementing, when it comes to actually having the conversation, most of them, they don't want to have it. When somebody opens their mouth and they start to discuss the topic, everybody curtsies their pulse or they hold their chest like, why do you want to have this very uncomfortable conversation, nobody wants to talk about that? And it gives off an energy that you don't care or it makes the other parties involved feel like, okay, that this is not a safe space for me to talk. This is not a safe space for me to share or what my experience has been. And just starting the conversation and creating that safe space just to have the different conversations whether it's about sexual assault, gender-based violence, domestic violence, we need to have these uncomfortable conversations so that people get comfortable enough to share their experiences, to share their emotions, to share the psychological and emotional impact that it's having on them. Now, inclusive of all that I know, it's one thing to say it and it's a whole other thing to do it. So creating plans, like going into the school, starting at a very young age, starting to educate our youngsters from preschool, I don't know if you remember, they had the Good-Touch-Bad-Touch campaign. So re-implementing these campaigns, starting to teach children, it's not just somebody who touches you, but a person can be next to you and you feel very uncomfortable with them. So just sharing knowledge on these little things, these little social cues to look at or to, you know, if you're around somebody and you don't feel safe, that's a red flag for you. You can walk away. Or you can say, I'm not really comfortable, I don't want to speak to you all. But starting from a very young age, starting the conversations from very young is very important and then we will come away up from there. Thank you so much, Andrew sir. And Mr. Jovay, in 30 seconds. Okay, in my experience, a lot of persons who actually come to seek counseling, especially the young ladies, they come in for another mental health issue. But while doing the intake and the history, we find that many of them were victims. And because of that trauma that they experienced, they never got the counseling, they never got the intervention, they live the life of that pain going forward. And when it reached to a boiling point, that's when they come in for something else, but that is the root issue of it, because of the trauma that they sustained many years ago. So then I have to break a lot of layers to get to that point, because now some of them, they have suppresses in the subconscious and they're not realizing it's that effect that is causing the present trauma. So what I'll say that is, persons who experience should come out very early, seek their help. And family support is very important. A lot of persons believe that they are all alone. In that fight, they have no help, they have no support. But family support is very important. And knowing that they are not responsible, they are not to be blamed, know that they should forgive themselves first and go forward. Because if not, as my parents said earlier, they'll be stuck, they'll be stuck and they behave as maybe so very destructive going forward. So they need that healing very early in the process. Thank you so much, Mr. Jovey. And we'll be taking a break right now, but when we come back, we will be speaking with our other two panelists on the challenges that they face and what improvements that they see to reduce gender-based violence. Thank you so much. Stay with us. Do you know me? It's to do this by my trafficker. I was promised a better life, but got forced into domestic servitude. At any age, at any gender, ethnicity, or trafficking in persons, know the signs, see it, report it, call the TIP HUC 4-7. Thank you for staying with us and welcome back to Surviving Sexual Assault, The Healing. We're jumping right into Ms. Foster's answer to the question, what are some challenges and improvements that you see that can take place to reduce the numbers of gender-based violence and sexual violence in Tiyusha? I believe for me, the greatest challenge I'm observing this far is we're not giving enough power and voice to young people in this space, in this conversation. I remember in 2018, we hosted a conference that really focused on ending violence against women and girls, and there was a bit of pushback because people felt like it was too sensitive of a topic. We don't want our children exposed to that. I don't think this is appropriate, but the children are seeing it every day, whether it's on their phones, whether it is through television, where it's in the classroom, through sexual harassment, sexual assault, but then we normalize it and we just don't tell them that this is something you can speak out against. This is something that you can raise awareness about. So I think that one of the things that our organization is pushing towards and one of the things that I think we need to do is to, again, continue to work with young people to sensitize them on the topic and to teach them that there are ways that, amongst themselves, they can create change in their environment. Thank you so much, Ms. Foster, and we'll go right into Dr. Chow. Thank you. During the recently ended campaign for UNICEF, the Play Your Part campaign, one of our key focuses at PCI Media is to ensure that we do a bit of desk review before we start developing a plan for the work and for the products that we will be creating. And I think one of the biggest challenges that we have in the Caribbean and I'm tired of seeing global statistics used to discuss our situation in Central Asia. We have a lack of the need or the will to actually go in and actually collect data when we do initiatives. I remember we were looking for the impact of 16 days of activism. What was the data saying about how effective were those campaigns? It was very, very hard to find.  That is always a big issue. So I think one of the critical things I would love to see is that there is actually an implement, a monitor and an evaluation component of initiatives. So you can actually decide was this initiative impactful and in what way? And too often we don't see that. We just, I mean, I love what, now that what Gozalfera is doing. So you can actually see what's happening and because of the way you all have designed it, how many persons access the telehealth services. That's data and so it could now be used to assess how do we move forward. But too often we don't see that happening a lot and I really think that's a challenge and that's something that needs to be made part of any other initiative coming forward. Thank you so much, Dr. Charles. And we do have an in studio audience and they have sent up some questions for our panelists. So the first question that I have here is what services do you think are the most valuable in supporting the needs of a sexual violence survivor in the short term and also in the long term? So that question was targeted to Mr. Jui. Okay, short term counseling, long term counseling. I let you think earlier. Counseling is very important especially at the beginning of the process. The victim should feel comfortable enough to access the services provided, whether it's through the Ministry of Health, which is free of charge counseling or the PD million to see a private counselor or psychologists or psychiatrists. But they have to start very early. The longer they stay without that service, the more they start to suppress that memory. They start to suppress it and they move on with their life but like their life is on automatic pilot because that trauma is actually controlling their life without they realizing it. Yes, and sometimes the behavior, the action can be very destructive because of that trauma that they encountered. So counseling at the beginning at the middle and at the end. And even at the end, they can still follow up, okay? So counseling is very, very, very important. Thank you, Mr. Jui and Ms. Foster. How do we advocate for further visibility of such services? Not only counseling but housing, you know? And how do we help survivors who are experiencing one or more of the possible effects of sexual violence? So the first question, how do we advocate? Yes, better. I think we need to look at collective action in St. Lucia. I think too many times we, whenever you think of gender-based violence, there's either one organization that you think of and it's not mainstream across government agencies or within different civil society organizations. And the thing is gender-based violence affects so many aspects of the work that we do, economically, financially, in every aspect. So it is affecting everyone and in all sectors. So I think that to start we need to think of what that partnership plan looks like. How does that mercy agency approach look like? And creating better communication strategies. A lot of the times we go to the schools, they don't know anything about who to go to, where to go to. We don't hear a lot of radio adverts and I know that's Bennett's area of specialty. We don't have a lot of youth organizations to partner with so I want to commend of course the Youth Council for taking this initiative. There aren't a lot of youth leaders talking about this type of work. So I would say, first of all, definitely we need to mainstream the type of action plans that we want and the type of interventions. It's everybody's responsibility. We see that all the time, but there are just two organizations we typically think of when it comes to this type of work. And secondly, remind me again of your question. The last part is, I can't remember, but what can we do to better the solutions? What can we do to improve the services? There are so many things that are missing to support survivors, but I can speak again to the audience that I work with in terms of young persons. Mr. Jervais mentioned the counseling support. There is still that stigma attached to seeking help for young persons. Even at a government level, I can say when it comes to infrastructure and housing and removing children from these places, we don't have those sorts of safe spaces that we need the accommodation to facilitate. Housing children who have been neglected and abused. So they have to be better financial support in those areas. So, there are different things I can touch on and I know we have other panelists, so I will allow a lot of... I wanted to just add a bit on what Charles said, which is so critical in terms of how the services, I think one of the major issues we have is that one, if you start promoting a service, you might get an influx of people. And if that service cannot deal with the influx of people, then you create a problem now. So I think one, you really need to start ensuring that if you're going to promote a service, you should know that you're prepared to receive that influx. So we have that. That's one of the things I think we need to really work on. And certainly, I think the second thing Charles he touched on so well is the multifaceted approach that we need to take as organizations. And very much so, holding our policy because accountable. We sometimes go at CEDA on these conventions and we speak about what we're doing in St. Lucia, but on the ground, we don't hold them accountable and we need to start doing that. So they know that, then there are some exceptions from the St. Lucia public and it's not just about going overseas and preaching certain things, but that when you return, they will be held accountable. Thank you, Dr. Charles. And while we have you, portrayals of sexual violence and in television and in movies, they may trigger very strong emotional, strong emotions for people who have been sexually abused. And we see a large increase of recording of sexual encounters and post onto social media. So as a media specialist, what can you say when we draw the line? Okay, thank you. For us, if you look at the ads that have run on during the break, at PCI media, we do not put any form of violence in our products. That is very, so you saw a music video from Teresin Jones speaking about standing up and playing your part. That is an ad focusing on ending violence against women and girls. And you're not seeing anybody getting hit or anything. There's another ad that focuses on the life cycle of a girl, which focuses, again, on ending violence, but you do not see any physical violence or emotional violence happening. One is that critical things. Too often and sadly, the persons who develop those products don't know how to do it.  You want to do it for likes and clicks. And so therefore, the responsibility that needs to go into ensuring that you have a product that is positively impacting on survivors, you need to do the work on that. You need to be able to understand, so you have someone like Andrews who spoke about her experience. If you truly understood that, then you would know that what not to put in your products. If you're actually doing a professional product. Yes, when it comes to people posting videos, and we see too often recently, we had one with an uncle or step that posted something that he did to his daughter is this. People do things because they believe that's what brings some level of attention to the situation. Sadly, they don't know better because that's how they've been grown. That's how they've been wired. So we now have to start rewiring. Even our media houses sometimes show now they're actually burying it out. But it's now we need to start rewiring, reeducating as to how do you take responsibility for what you showed? And too often some people don't. It's like, okay, I just put it out there. It wasn't me who did it. So we need to start calling people out when you do something like this and we've seen it happening. That's what they're going to start doing. We need to ensure that the media and media houses are sensitive to the impact this could have. And if you're going to develop products, you need to do from the standpoint of survivors and victims, that when you do it, you don't reintroduce trauma into their lives when you're looking at it. So from a PCI standpoint, we never introduce any sign of violence in our world because we understand the impact and we understand what we want that feedback to be like. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you, Dr. Charles.  What can be said to young people who have experienced sexual violence to motivate them to speak out? What I can say, honestly, starts with you. You're the catalyst for change. You're the catalyst for your healing. You're responsible for yourself. It happened, you experienced it, yes, and you're in no way responsible for what happened to you, but you're responsible for how it impacts you and how you move on from that. I know that it's a very hard topic, it's a very sensitive thing, and there's a lot of hurt and a lot of resentment and a lot of self-hatred, a lot of guilt, a lot of internal conflict surrounding the experience of whether you were sexually molested or you were a victim, either or, or more, but you're the one who needs to start. Even if you cannot outright, and right after it happened, have the conversation, but you have a friend, even if it's yourself you have to stand up and speak to in a mirror and say, okay, this is my experience, so let's talk ourself through this. How can we share this with somebody? How can we go ahead and seek the help?  So the catalyst for that change will be stand up in a mirror, talk yourself through your experience because you need to accept that, okay, this happened, and then from accepting that this happened, then you'll be able to meet the necessary changes and seek the necessary help. Thank you so much, Ms. Octav. You're welcome. And thank you to our in-studio audience for giving up some very good questions. We are gonna take a break right now, but when we come back, we will be taking our final statements from our panelists on their work and how we can reduce gender-based violence. Thank you, I'm staying with us. Violence against women begins in childhood. In cultures across the Caribbean, as elsewhere in the world, girls and boys in numerous ways are treated differently from the moment they're born. In adolescence, this gender divide increases significantly. Adolescent girls and boys in all their diversities begin to interact with the world in new ways, taking chances, learning skills, and experiencing unfamiliar emotions.  It is during this time that girls are more likely to experience violence from people they know, family members, intimate and dating partners. In fact, high rates of intimate partner violence reported by adolescent girls are consistent with global estimates based on research on violence against women and girls. Up to one-third of adolescent girls have experienced forced sex. These estimates don't show the whole picture because no one wants to report it. This is shocking. The negative consequences of violence against adolescent girls are well documented and extend throughout a girl's lifetime. Such violence is committed against girls specifically because they are female and can take many forms. It distorts family life and the fabric of society with consequences that cross generations. But this cycle can be broken. Adolescence is a unique time for the prevention of family violence. Girls themselves are part of the solution, but they can't do it alone. There's still work to be done in our homes, communities, schools and with our leaders to make sure that women and girls live free from violence and can take full advantage of their rights. Play your part. To surviving sexual assault, and we have here with us four panelists experts in their field on gender-based violence and sexual violence. Our first question is, we have student leaders in the audience today. So what is your advice to student leaders? How can they seek help? What training can they get? And where can they go to access these services? I guess I can't hear you. Okay. So for student leaders, I would definitely encourage you to do a little bit of research. So find out what are the organizations in St. Lucia doing the work? Find out what areas they specialize in and reach out to them. So tell them that you are student leader, you're interested in raising awareness. What are the steps that you're interested in taking at your schools, et cetera. So that's the first step.  I know there are organizations like Goose of a Feather, you have Raise Your Voice in Lucia, you have in terms of communication specialist, Benes is right here, and you can partner with other organizations, youth leaders in your communities, et cetera. I would also encourage you to assess how much you know for sure. Find out whether it is your need to do trainings, how do you design a campaign? You know, Bennett touched on that, how do you properly design a campaign? And for me, when I started what, because it was so hard to find people here in St. Lucia, I would go back in my emails and see people I reached out to in Trinidad 10 years ago and I would see them at conferences to this day. So I am not afraid to tap into resources outside of St. Lucia. I reached out to people in Trinidad, in Barbados, in where else, all across the region to help me, whether it was just to do a virtual talk, whether it was just to find out what are they doing, how are they getting youth involved, what are the best strategies that I can use? Do not limit yourself in terms of what you think you can do. I know that we have limited people here and access to finances, but now with TikTok and social media, you can get so much information in different ways to reach young people. You know how you want to reach young people. So designing a campaign doesn't need to be a music video. It can take so many different forms in terms of raising awareness. It doesn't have to be a march. It could be a student assembly. It could be a safe space in your schools. Some of the things that came out of the students were just these very suggestions. Designing posters in your school just so that the children know where they can access services. All of these things, you're making a huge impact in the environment that you're in. So just start small. Find the people, find that you don't think you have the right information. Reach out to the people that you think can support you and I think that that's the best avenue to go. Thank you so much, Ms. Foster. Can I make a point? Yes, go ahead. Okay, and to piggyback on what Ms. Opta said a while ago, socialization is a very important fact. So from a very early age, I mean I'm telling our kids both male and female about if anybody abuse you in any way, form or fashion, to report it. When it does occur, they feel brave enough to come out because my daughter is 11 years old. I like to use my own experience sometimes. And we always say that even if it's daddy or your brother or grandpa, tell mummy, tell grandma, tell somebody, don't keep it in. So from a very early age, I've been telling her that and she grew up. So if it do occur, but if it do occur, she can reach out and don't live with that trauma her whole life. So as I said, to start the process very early. So when there's a lot of kids in the school setting are abused and abused by a person that they know, say father, the boyfriend, uncle, a brother. And the children live with that and sometimes the school council never gets involved because they don't know the kids keep it to themselves. And they grow up, they live secondary school, secondary school with that trauma their whole life without never addressing it. And as I said, it affects the way going forward. They are living with that pain. They're living with that shame. They're living with that belief throughout their life, without actually addressing it. I think we all want to go to the top of the podium today. Something that tells us, when we talk about student leadership. And I recall when I first met Chelsea, I don't know about 10 years ago, that means I'm all or you are. And this year when it works into my office, I was a communication advocacy officer for years. I don't even remember that. And they used to have the initial meetings in our office when they were starting. And again, it's understanding that if I have a willpower to do something, she was one that actually looked for the resources. So this young lady walks into my office, you know, like, we really want to do this work. And then one thing she said, which has stuck to me for the 10 years. And we were discussing work with young women. And she's like, but if so many people are working with young women, who working with the young boys? And from this day, I don't know if she randomly said it, but from this day, that's the thing. And it's always true that we're so focused on working with women and getting the young girls ready. So when the girls ready for their partners, if they're into that, who are they going to? You know, and so as young people and youth leaders, also understand that look at the problem from a holistic standpoint. Yeah, yes, predominantly young women are affected, but we must also help our boys heal. And we must get them prepared to be able to take up their roles in society also. So I really wanted to just take that thing. You know, he touched on that a little, which reminded me, you know, maybe my thought pattern has changed throughout the years in terms of the resources that being tapped into for young women and girls. For me, now I'm realizing that even though we have a lot of organizations that are talking and centering the conversation around women, the question is, is it impactful and is it useful? So even before we can now even do this work with the young men, are the girls and the women getting the right support that they need? Because we know that they're the ones who are in terms of the rates, their high rates of victims. But just to touch on this, I think it's Mr. Chavez who was speaking about it in terms of the family environment. I once had a young lady, just since we have time, I once had a young lady who was being sexually abused by her stepfather. Her mother was in contact with us, but she would call me, she initially reached out to us because she was realizing that her child was acting out, only to find out that the child revealed that she was being sexually assaulted. And her concern was not about the child, it was about what was gonna happen to me as a mother. As a mother. As a mother. And when we speak about family, because I think we touched on family environments and how are you really supporting the children?  And even when we had spoken to her, she was afraid because she, this is also somebody that they depend on financially at home. So these are the mechanisms and the things that we have to think about when we want to really help children. And I touched on this point again, where are we sending these undocumented children if we don't have proper safe spaces for them to pull them out of these environments? What are we doing to educate families, to educate parents about supporting children when they have revealed? And that's one of my biggest things. We talk so much about gender-based violence, but I don't see a lot of conversation around child sexual abuse in St. Lucia. The children do not feel that there's anybody they can go to and they just, they're left to their own devices to figure things out on their own. And I think that's so unfortunate in St. Lucia that not enough attention is given to them to encourage them. So that's one of the things I think we need to also address our culture, right? We have a culture of not saying, not wanting to say anything, whether it's because we're trying to protect family members because we don't want people knowing our business. It's just something that we need to get over. We really need to get over because it's more damaging in the long run. These are people that have to go into the work environment. These are people who are going to become parents themselves. So when we think that we're doing, we're trying to protect these people, we're doing more harm. So I think that's something we definitely need to have a conversation about in St. Lucia. Thank you so much, panelists. And we have a short but complex question given by one of the audience members. What's about the perpetrators? Anybody? I think Mr. Jubey started. I don't know if I know someone who's doing that. I know Mr. Jubey started. My experience was, and it's so weird because the first time this happened, being honest, I don't think that I've ever really said that to anybody. But this was not an isolated incident. So this was something that happened once and did not happen again. This, actually, I experienced sexual abuse and my family, that's probably the first time that they're hearing this fact, at different points in my life. So it happened when I was a little girl, I was going to preschool. It was happening whilst I was growing up. It happened by pre-teens and I had an incident just before I think my 14th birthday again. So we were talking about the years of sexual abuse, but the one that really, well, I mean all of them stuck with me, but the one that really was a catalyst for all of the trauma and everything is when I was being more or less, and for me, they were about three years and it was by a very, very close family member. And it was two things. I, in my mind as a person, I was not aware of what was happening until I reached grade six and that's me getting ready to go to secondary school. That's when I realized, okay, this is what was happening to me. But my question to myself was, why is this person doing this to me? I would not say that I did not care what was happening to me. I was trying to understand what in the world it would make an adult do this to a child. And it's weird because at seven, eight people say that you're not aware of so many things, but I was. And I kept asking myself, is this something that this person has experienced? What was their life before me? Like, what was their experience when they were a younger person? Was it being done to them? Is there something that they're hiding? Or is it a fetish or something that they have as it relates to younger children? But my question was, what is this? To this day when I see that person, I honestly, they're still disgust. They're still a thing then, but I still ask myself like, why would you do that? And furthermore, you ask yourself, are you the only one? Has this person ever been that to somebody else? Was at the time it was happening, was I the only person? Because this person has access to other children. Like, what is going on with that person? So, Mrs. Jave mentioned earlier on that a lot of the times we leave the perpetrator out and we take, especially when it's then to a younger child, your focus is no longer on this person. But what is our rehabilitation process? And not only that, if let's say this person says, okay, I need the help and they come out and they share their experiences, how do you create balance? Because now you have to validate this person's experience because it's something very real and true that they went through. And now you have to validate the current young person or person's experience. And you don't want to invalidate anybody's emotion and you don't want to make anybody feel less supported by what they've experienced. So, there's a balance that we need to create and we need to understand that as much as the undue that I would say, as much as this is something that has happened to you, the person might be a victim as well. And we need to create that level of balance. Just to jump to a point that Mrs. Jave made as it relates to younger children, giving, allowing them to speak or telling them that they need to share when these things happen to them. I have a five-year-old daughter who recently experienced something at her school. And I could whole-heartedly say that I was very proud that my daughter felt very comfortable to come to me and say, mommy, X, Y, and Z happened at school and it wasn't another little boy around her age. And most times somebody would be angry and upset. But my concern was not only for my daughter. I went to the school and it happened, everything was resolved rather quickly. And I said to the teacher, I need to know what is going on with this child as well because is this something that this child is experiencing? Because children at that age, between the age of five and seven, they pick up a lot of things, they do a lot of things, they say a lot of things. And it's because that they have experienced these things before.  But it's a whole other thing if you don't empower your children. Empowerment is important because I could say, John, anything happens to you, come and tell me. But when John comes to speak to me, I don't have the time. I don't want to hear you right now. I don't want to, I'm not interested. You're sending mixed signals to that child. So you need to ensure that when you're saying to your children, you can come and speak to mommy, you can come and speak to auntie, you go to speak to grandma, whatever, whatever.  You allow them to express themselves. My children are very expressive. Sometimes when people hear them speak to me, they go like, I allow them to do that because of situations and things that they may experience. And I want them to feel comfortable and safe enough to come to mommy and say, mommy, this is X, Y, and Z. And that I am a safe space for my children. So we must facilitate the conversations, allow them to speak with us, allow them to express themselves at a very young age for simple things, stuff as simple as how was your day? How are you doing? How are you feeling? So that when we need to have hard conversations with them, that they're very comfortable having these hard conversations. Thank you so much. This is Octav. Anybody else? What are your views on Puppet Treaters? On the topic of Puppet Treaters. My point on this aspect of the Puppet Treaters, it can be a very complex situation. Many factors coming to play. The individual might be suffering from some kind of mental condition. Some kind of trauma themselves. Experience as a kid growing up and it never got resolved. So now as an adult now, they are taking advantage on the kids. And it can also be a power dynamic. A power struggle. A power struggle, because with adults, we know that power struggle, power dynamic. And it can also be the same with kids. As an adult, you are the kids. You have to see the example. But still you find some attraction to go for a young boy or a young child. That's your own issue. There is that power struggle there also. That power dynamic. But generally those individuals, they need help also. They need help. And a lot of persons in society, especially the young ladies, sometimes they know what's going on in the house. They do not report. So those individuals do not get incarcerated. They free to live their life when they continue that behavior. But then you also need to, not you, but we also need to understand that, for example, molestation, right? When you bring this up to a police officer and now you have to go through a series of checks and tests, it's almost like reliving that trauma. But on a clinical level. And the thing about it is, when you have doctors and nurses who hear the stories every day, they become desensitized and they disconnect emotionally. And now it's like, oh, well, another one may say, and you come and you just go through the procedures and that's it. And in that space, sometimes you feel even less supported and cared for as opposed to if you did not go through that process. And not only that, but going through the system, a lot of times the cases are thrown out because there's no evidence, there's no this, it's that order against that. And then there's no physical support to say, well, this is exactly what happened, especially if a couple of years have passed and you finally have the courage to speak up about this. Most of it is honestly nothing you can do.  And this happened to you. You need to go to the doctor right away because now you need to do the kick, you need to do the test, you need to do all of that. If you go, you take a shower and you... All the evidence, what shower? Everything washes away and you're left with nothing. And right now all you have to do is deal with the emotional trauma.  Or are you walking on the rail and you see the person and nothing. So it's not a black and white topic. There's a lot of gray and colorful areas and there's a lot that needs improving. Well, a few things were coming to mind because it takes me back to one Bennett's point and I know we're talking about perpetrators and maybe I'm not privy to that yet, but I'm thinking about what sort of data is collected on perpetrators who we offend when they leave and what type of work is being done with these perpetrators who have committed acts of sexual violence. Another thing that I also, when she spoke about the process of a survivor going into different agencies, again, when we did the training, the survivor's training, a nurse walked up to me and she said, I've been a nurse for 80 years and I've never done a training on sexual abuse. And she's a supervisor. So that already sparked a bit of anger and a bit of confusion because I didn't understand how, she said, I said, is it just you? She said, no, there's nobody in my department. None of the nurses that I work with, I work at a mental health institution, but I also worked in different areas and she said they've never done training. So when we have a domestic violence act that speaks to training health professionals, training government agencies, training all of that, who is responsible for doing that? That is something that needs to be put in our standard operating procedures across anybody who's working with survivors.  Sometimes we don't even have enough of those and it's a matter of who can actually do those. I think right now it's only the hospitals that can do it and not the health centers. So even when we do our work. Our centers are in the community. And even when we do our work with children, we tell them the importance of when you have to the timeframe for which you need to collect that evidence and we tell them it's no matter whether you want to press charges in a year, in five years, 10 years down the line. We give them all the information and tell them just make sure that the evidence is collected. And we're teaching it from a very young age because we underestimate the power of these young people. So we're talking about so many, like you said, it's a gray and a colorful area, but there are so many issues that we're surrounding it and not enough resources being tapped into or invested in when it comes to this line of work, which is so disappointing because it's happening. We talk about starting the conversation, but we're having the conversation. We're having the conversation. It's the action. That's always that. Who is going to do it and why aren't we doing it? We're just comfortable with where we're at. And that's so unfortunate. So I'm just one short thing. As it relates to statistics, and this is from my experience, and in no way she performed documented this, being a sexual violence survivor, right? I have ended up in many spaces where I meet men and women.  And that really hit me in a recent conversation. There were six of us in the room and one person out of the six of us was not a survivor. And I was like, that is...  That was just crazy because I'm like, how? And out of all of them, I think I was the only one who had the opportunity to shape. And it's just unfortunate that we have a lot of young men and women who are going through this and they don't feel safe enough to share their experience. If it hurts me, it breaks my heart. Like, at some point or the other, we truly, really need to do better because we cannot keep going like that. Thank you so much to our panelists for such a fruitful and successful discussion. We will be now taking the final and closing statements from each panelist, very brief. Thank you. Bennett? Sure, definitely. I think from the discussion here, I think one thing is very important as the recent campaign, we really say that everyone has a part to play. I think Chelsea and Mr. Jeebe spoke about the intricacies of it. That is critical. I am one who believes strongly in showing that whatever we do, that we're able to, and I think Chelsea Touchland also, measure its impact because at the end of the day, we will just be spinning top. We'll just be doing the same thing over and over again. So whatever we get involved in, we need to be able to ensure that there is some impact and that impact can be measured and that impact can guide future work. And one of the critical thing is this collaborative approach and holding people accountable who are responsible for ensuring as much as possible that this issue is dealt with. We must hold our policy makers accountable. We must hold ourselves as parents and adults and NGOs accountable. And I do hope that in the long run, we will actually start to see the change that we want to see when it comes to dealing with this issue. Thank you. Thanks. Yes, as it relates to me, I'm not a professional in this field specifically, but I do have experience working with different young people and encouraging them to speak up for themselves and empower themselves, use their voices, and be advocates to and for one another. As it relates to our young people here, when you go back to your schools and your various youth spaces, have the conversation. Let them know that this was a topic of conversation this morning. Have you experienced that if they don't want to speak to you within the setting personally? Tell them, let them know that they have a friend in you. Let them know that there is support, there is help. There are people who care enough to listen and help them heal and grow from that. Let them know that the professionals are here, you have organizations like Gozell Affair, that you have persons like Dr. Bennett Charles. You also have a psychotherapist like Mr. Jovey who is willing to provide support for you, emotional and otherwise. So the help is there, it's available. Reach out to the Casstrees East Even Sports Council, your fellow youth focus here as well, they're different organizations. So we're here to support and we're here to help you heal and grow. My final words, start the conversation. Start it from the home, the school, communities, the church organization. Start the process, let individuals know that they can express the feelings of the trauma that occurred and there is healing. There are persons that are concerned and there are persons that are willing to help and to provide the service. It is not an easy experience, by no means. Ms. Opta went through the experience and she's a survivor, she is there. Because it takes a lot of courage to sit down here and to discuss what you went through. I'm very happy that she's here with us. So, start the conversation. It's somebody in your family, in your circle is going through that experience and telling them to seek help, to see the doctor, psychiatrists, counsellor, psychologists and to start the conversation. Thank you. My closing remarks, I think it's really to put pressure on the people who are advocating for young people. And just like Mr. Jovey's, I want to again thank Ms. Opta for sharing her story. But the pressure, I think this is an initiative by the Ministry of Youth and Sports. I want to put pressure on them to really do more in this line of work in terms of getting more young people involved and getting their staff more involved. It's always a bit disappointing to me sometimes when the people who are supposed to be there for young people do not know or do not have the skills to work with the vulnerable people that they're trying to be a voice for. So, having more survivor advocates within our ministry, putting a call out for more youth organizations to get funding, to do more work in their communities, to continue conversations like these, whether it's through GIS or their own series. So I want to think, I think I want to challenge both the Ministry's annual people to do more. A lot of people are suffering in silence and a lot of people feel that their voice doesn't matter and they don't have safe spaces. And I think we have to start somewhere. People always ask me, is this an organization that started internationally or why did I do this? There wasn't a space and I just created it and I have stuck with it for the past 10 years. So as I go into retirement, and the girls of a feather may not be here again, I would like to know that there are other organizations like myself doing this and you don't always have to rely on girls of a feather. So I think that's my point today. Just to see more youth-led organizations speaking about topics like this. Thank you so much to our panelists. I'd like to say a big thank you for our audience members for submitting such wonderful questions. I would like to thank our partners, the Ministry of Youth Development and Sports, the CASHES East Youth and Sports Council, GIS Studios and of course our lovely panelists who gave such insight and a lot of information on gender-based violence and sexual violence. And our survivor, thank you so much for sharing your experience and thank you for empowering survivors who are watching and maybe even in the audience to speak up and speak out against sexual violence. Again, if you or anyone has experienced sexual violence of any kind, there are available resources that you can tap into. There is the vulnerable persons team who can be contacted at 458-6023 or 287-6664 or there is a National Domestic Violence Hotline and it's 202, it's toll-free. It's confidential and it's open 24-7. Thank you again for joining us. Thank you for giving information on the services that are available to be tapped into how we can advocate and raise awareness for sexual violence. And I really hope that the viewers learned something new today and they enjoyed the discussion. I'm looking forward to more discussions like this. Thank you to the Cassie's East Youth Sports Council for initiating such a wonderful discussion and thank you so much to the ministry for supporting them. Again, thank you to our viewers and have a good day.