We all said Dan we're we're live. All right Welcome everyone Big day today big day yesterday. It's gonna be a lot of big days So we've equipped those back when we are back as well. We've got some special guests today that we're gonna Be Supporting this channel going forward. So we're looking forward to you know kind of a melding of the mines here and We're gonna get into How to Incorporate structure into your outlook and before we get into that I want to go over this disclosure, you know all information and presentations are for educational purposes only and should only be considered specific investment advice nor recommendations Cryptocurrency's futures options for since stock trading contains substantial risk And it's not for every investor an investor could potentially lose all or more than of that initial investment risk capital is money That can be lost without jeopardizing one's financial security or lifestyle Only risk capital should be used for trading and only those with sufficient risk capital should consider trading past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results and You have to remember that with your own trading as well Just because you had a big day yesterday doesn't mean you're gonna have a big day today So keep that ego in check. I'm John Slazos from Dharma capital trading You can reach out to me directly at info at Dharma capital dot trade and come to our website Check us out on X and YouTube Today what I'm gonna be joined by Mike Williams from Thrive Labs Mike is a trading educator and trader self-taught and He's been trading crypto for some time. He'll give a little bio when he comes on board here He's gonna give his outlook and he's been doing crypto outlooks for a while and with some good results and We're going to go through his outlook and put some structure around it And we also have Spencer regal on board who's our chief options strategist so we're gonna take a look at Mike's forecast and put structure around it and then Spencer's gonna come in and Go over how you can use options to take advantage of that outlook So you'll have kind of all all the firepower and what we're doing here at Dharma capital You know our real mission is to create a positive impact and help traders achieve their full potential And that's what we're doing with our collaboration with Thrive Labs as well with Mike Williams You know we empower traders with fact-based trading solutions that enhance self-awareness and decision-making Our approach enables traders to execute trades confidently and effectively by facilitating a state of flow So today we're going to go through Mike's outlook For you know basically just kind of recap what's happened in the last couple days And what he sees going forward in the next couple days keep things on a short term here crypto is pretty volatile So we'll keep it short term We're gonna I'm gonna come through and Apply our price map overlay as a risk management overlay to Mike's forecast and see if it's supporting the context of the facts And then Spencer is gonna follow end the session going over specific option strategies and nuances and tactics of those option strategies and So I'd like to introduce everyone to Mike Williams Mike if you'd like to take over and share your screen and your thoughts Well alone good day everybody. Thank you for the invitation. Happy to be here My name is Mike. I am a trader. I trade mostly crypto I do this on all different timeframes and basically what I do is I read charts and I use technical analysis to identify Key support and resistance levels in which I look for liquidity to collapse Against those areas. So as a matter of fact, I am actually trading liquidity That is my key way of looking and taking trades And I use technical analysis to Identify possible areas where that might happen I also make an effort into teaching what I do And more importantly, I don't necessarily teach people how to make money But first of all how to stop losing stabilize and then grow sustainably And I'm here now to give you a short Update on what has happened on Bitcoin because we have seen quite some volatility. So let me get started with sharing my screen There we go Do we have it? Do we have it on? Anybody can confirm. Yeah, I'm not seeing it right now Mike I see it on my side. All right Then let's let's get started Essentially what I want to do is I want to keep it basic and I want to keep it really simple And I want to I want to focus on the structure that price is simply giving us and how that actually Holds up really well without even using too much technical analysis altogether, right? So, you know, I'll be switching through different timeframes, but I will be covering basically the price actually from yesterday and today and how How my outlook is for the coming days forward as we have seen immense Volatility, we've seen a breach of all-time high yesterday. We've seen a decrease in price of about 15% in just a matter of just a few hours and overnight We have basically shot up trading at pretty much the exact region as we did yesterday Which is quite interesting So essentially what I'm saying here is and this is also I've I've been doing a livestream as we were reaching all-time highs and Looking back to 2017 and 2020, you know, it was to be expected that we are gonna see some kind of reaction You have obviously people taking profits at all-time highs. You have people trading the breakout and you also have Bears in disbelief that are attempting to short all-time highs now All this combined can cost some immense volatility and we did got that only to retrace to about that $61,000 area where we have that previous piece of price structure coming in where we had some consolidation that provided really nice Support if we throw on a fixed range, which allows us to see the volume profile in a vertical way Then we can see over here That we have a point of control that has held up quite nicely now due to the volatility We blasted through it at first right, but eventually we stabilized around that level and eventually we got a bounce over All the way back up taking out this low this low and all these lows all together, right? So like I said in the beginning big liquidity grab all the way from top to bottom and now we are In the process of doing so I also you read order flow where we could see over 200 million shorts coming in at the very lows You know providing that fuel once again that liquidity to squeeze back up to where we are at right now And what does surprise me though is that many of those shorts remain in their trades? I will show this at a later stage and maybe in a different stream But for now I want to keep it simple and and basically share with you how I'm framing the price action So since that since the drop now we have seen that really big bounce overall all happening in one single day John is right. We are back crypto is back. The volume is back. The volatility is back and it's a great time If you know what you're doing obviously so today I'm basically framing the price action as follows Currently we just have a sideways day, which is to be expected after such a volatile day Am I still there? Yeah, I got you right my PC is freezing As you can see let me reload that and Let's continue. So what I'm what I'm basically looking at right now is if I Make the price a little bit more readable on a slightly lower time frame Then all that we did today eventually overnight we had this bounce to the upside and Basically the way that I'm framing the current price action is just a sideways range bound environment with with very nicely respected levels to the upside very nicely respected levels to the downside I have Created this channel off of a five-minute time frame actually connecting the candle closes with the candle closes and Verifying the channel with a nicely and well respected midline as we are making our rotations back down Through the midline back down again. We're also the V web is important intraday level very nice respect on these level And now after reclaiming that midline of the channel again We are making our way to the top of this channel giving us our resistance point at 67600 more or less where we now have seen a little reaction But we haven't really touched that level or exactly which is important if you're day trading Especially if you're sculpt raiding on the lower time frames. So for me, the level has not been hit yet I'm still waiting for that to be hit if we do reclaim that Then it all comes to fruition in my opinion where we basically have that rise in price consolidation and a Reestablish that local uptrend while never having even lost the macro uptrend altogether even during the drop yesterday Because what we've done yesterday is simply we touched all time high Over here we touched previous support, right? That is what a range in my opinion is for it is a Reflection area where people decide where the price should travel higher or not or in other words if price is considered Cheap or expensive if it breaks out of a range It should give Continuation and the next time that it retest that area it should act as support Which it did and now on the lower time frame We're doing the exact same thing, right? So we had that drop into higher time frame support and now Re-establishing this structure again with a high higher low higher high range bound and therefore the expectation Is that we are going to breach this high once again in order to test all-time highs once more that is my expectation and When would that be invalidated that would simply be if we break the structure to the downside in other words lose the V-web or that downside of the channel and if if we drop over here and Back-tested that is for me a confirmation that that structure is now broken and we can see if we can you know Change that structure again to a local downtrend where you know where the previous support comes back into play as I just said This is now a range for today and that should act as support, right? So excuse excuse me Mike. I'm sorry. Could you just shout out those levels that you're talking about so everyone's clear on that All right. Yeah, so support levels over here basically resistance at the moment We are pretty much at it is sixty seven thousand dollars and six hundred support level here is sixty five six hundred Should we lose that and back test that successfully then the level is something that I consider lost And I would be simply looking back to sixty three thousand dollars six hundred Otherwise the expectation is simply we're going to test you know a Daily level which which is a horizontal level based on yesterday's daily close Or two days ago actually Sad at sixty eight thousand dollars three hundred and fifty more or less just slightly below all-time highs And then obviously the next level after that is new all-time highs And then we have the magical seventy thousand dollar level which I deem an important level due to the Psychological weight that is being put on that as that is human nature. They look at rounded numbers therefore seventy thousand dollars is a level that I want to be aware of when it gets hit and So yeah, the expectation is simply higher prices to come unless invalidated if we drop below sixty five five Thirty three to be very precise Then this attempt has failed and we can see another rotation back to the downside where that support comes in at sixty three thousand dollars six hundred and then ultimately sixty two sixty one thousand dollars once more and That's it for me Sounds good, so let me I'll take back the The reins here for a little bit Could you what was the so is sixty three did you say sixty three thousand six hundred on the downside and sixty one thousand two hundred? To the downside like the old the bigger support in my opinion comes in around the sixty two to sixty one thousand dollar area and The bigger resistance is well where we are at pretty much right now until sixty eight thousand dollars and three hundred and fifty Okay, great Put that up there. All right, so So Dan I'm gonna share my screen now Actually didn't stop sharing my screen All right, so Mike you can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. Can you can you guys see my my screen now? All right, I got it perfect So correct me if I'm wrong, so we're basically positive above sixty five six hundred we We're at a pivotal point here at sixty seven six hundred if we get above there We are the expectation is you know, there could be a speed bump here at sixty eight four hundred But we're looking for a challenge to new new new highs seventy K Somewhere in this range as the market's gonna make decision and then if we can't hold this level of sixty five six hundred We could see the market slip back into this zone All right, so let's let's just take a quick look we're looking at a daily So I want to pop up the the playbook just to get some context real quick and then we're going to get Go right into the price map. So I'm not gonna take too much time on this, but we've got You know Bitcoin is in a bull trend so that supports the positive outlook and Structurally the market the sentiment is below the market. So that supports the positive outlook and so let's you know So context-wise Your outlook is in alignment with what we've got going on. So everything that we're doing gonna overlay now is just facts So I'm going to overlay the the previous trading session Timeframes on here so we can take a look at that and so you know Mike's focused on this sixty five six hundred level Well, that's above the previous days close and midpoint. So that's a that's a positive fact Here's the previous days low previous days high and the previous days high is you know, it's new all-time highs You know, so that's that's in play. Mike's aware of that So now let's add the sentiment bias. So this is our over under number. So this is going to give us insight to okay You know, where's the where's the big buying energy for today? Well, it's down at 62 You know, basically 500 we call the downside pivot Now let's put our critical range structure on the market to take a look at that and And so with Mike's forecast coming in at 65 600, you know, the with the critical range This is our pivotal point that basically says above this price were positive into the upside pivot below this price We're negative into the downside pivot and what this can helps Mike's outlook is it gives him a sense of where risk is at So coming in and saying okay 65 600, you know, where's the stop at well We've got market structure here coming in at the directional at 64 672 And that lower metric boundary is aligning with the previous days midpoint So basically coming into this zone of saying hey, we're positive above this price, okay And and if the markets really gonna continue to accelerate from here, that's gonna hold if it doesn't we could you know We could see a squeeze and we could see a squeeze as low as 64 400 let's say And so that's really where it's it's telling us that hey, you know, we need to bail in This thing the other thing that's going on is the market breach the critical range early in in the session And so now we're we're starting to you know, you know the market Broke out of the critical range. Let's put our upper targets on here and our minor levels and so What occurred earlier in the session so the market came started the session out and tested sentiment So they tested that you know, this is the big buying energy Gave us a you know a real strong move off of that early last night broke out of the critical range Exhausted right in front of our target, which is also one of Mike's levels And then it it will produce what we call a failure here, which is a reversal and the market Failed down to the directional. So what this tells us You know, this is a typical reversal strategy where the market stabilizes off this directional midpoint And then every and now it's resuming and it's climbing of this ladder And so we have this this critical range positive extreme is a level that we use to Validate a trend and we can see we had good market structure here and we're retesting it now So this is the validation point for a higher move and any time we get a break out of this critical range Our expectation is to come up to the upside target to and so that's what's in play right now So it's a little bit beyond The all-time highs so you know market our expectation here is that if the market's gonna stall out We're gonna have this more stop-and-go action Let's let's respect this area here. So we could take out this and get another nice reaction But more likely if we take this out This is coming in as more minor for us and it and the the the bigger levels are higher above the market and I'm gonna flip to our weekly outlook. So we're gonna do the same thing on the weekly and Then I'm gonna hand that over to this over to Spencer so he can show some strategies Going forward since we're coming to the end of the day here Or on the back end of the day So I'm gonna just change my bar settings here going to a little tighter time frame so we can see The all the action for the week We just build this back up again. Just so we're all on the same page here and so I'm also going to swap out of my daily and I'm gonna go into my Weekly structure so based on here's the weekly time frame We have our weekly low high close and midpoint and so the market is currently trading above the previous weeks high So that's positive Sentiment for the week was below the market our critical range And you can see how you know quickly you can kind of just get an awareness of what's happening on the bigger time frame So here you had a breakout of the critical range and that reversal signal bottoming out at the directional So the similar pattern that happened on the daily today happened over the week and we put our major levels here and Also our minor structure. So here's that validation point And so this this is where you can see different alignment and I'm going to blow this up a little bit here It's a little messy. Let me take let me take these off So I want to show how we have the daily Target is also in alignment with the weekly target and that's the main thing I wanted to show there and So here again, you know, Mike's levels are kind of coming into play in alignment. We've got you know, this area becomes a The major support, you know for the the positive momentum and that's in alignment with the longer term structure and And here at the what we call our upside target one, you know, the markets kind of been through it But it really you know, it needs to base above this level to really kick things into gear And if it does, this is the natural target on the week as well And so I'm going to you know, so basically with you know, what we're doing here with book map Is when we identify and we isolate this alignment and we see that 67 600, you know, that's also the the daily You know critical range extreme and it's showing here on our cloud notes You know and we can then also see, you know, this resting paper that's been in here above the market. It's it's 6800 So this just gives us insight that this upper metric boundary of the week is you know, there's some other players in the market They're saying yeah, I like that structure And so that that also gives you insight to a hurdle So if we do get we do start basing above here and moving We've got some liquidity to get rid of and a lot of times the market could come up here ping that and get a pullback So we could get a you know push up to this area and then kind of a pullback and down to the 67 400 area, but it's also saying that you know, there's some interest there So using the the micro structure with the you know with your outlook and some hard structure around that So with Mike so we're coming into you know tomorrow session We don't know what the daily structure is going to be what we do know what the weekly structure is going to be and we do know That this is a there's key alignment here and if we're going to end what's what any time we get this violent action A lot of times that'll continue. So the expectation for us is to see you know more of this to continue having a surge into You know into Thursday And we're coming into the the eighth expiration And to see some continued volatility there So more of this kind of run to new highs and potential be vulnerable to a pullback So the structure is pretty clear upside targets are a little farther extended this the upside trigger at 67 600 of Mike's outlook is in alignment with market structure as well as his pivot at 65 600 as a failure point and then for us The lower metric boundary on the alert distance is just below Mike's target of 6100. We're saying it's a little lower closer to 60 K is where the structure is coming in Alright, so how do we how we take advantage of this using options?  We've got an outlook. You can trade perps with it We've got structure that we can use to align some strike prices with and so, you know, we're here now But you know with with our expectation that we could see another one of these after a rally to new highs Market could just fall right back and digest as well So it's it's a tricky market and and when you incorporate options into your perp and spot strategy It gives you a little more staying power, you know, and you can kind of Leverage things up with your perps But you can have this stability of an option spread to either hedge it or to get on to a longer trend So that you know when these situations occur, you're not getting stopped out because your risks are defined All right, so I'd like to let me swap here to my presentation Give you a picture of who's up next and you know what we've been going over is fact-based trading You know basically just you know, what are the facts? You've got your outlook You got your opinion, but what it what's something objective, you know Giving you a kind of a statistical baseline to work from you know And then identifying the context the structure and the microstructure using book map and then And and that gives you you know that kind of the the complete fact foundation and now I'm gonna take the Spencer takeover and he's going to go through Option strategies with Mike's outlook Perfect thanks. Yeah, thanks John. Can you can you guys confirm that you guys can see this Mike John? Can you guys see my screen? I Cannot see I can't see your screen Mike. Can you see mine if if you toggle on over? Let me see. I'm showing them live. I believe Yep, I see it. There we go. Okay. Okay, perfect Yeah, so I mean First of all, thanks for having me on it's always great to talk about options. They are a fun product. This market's incredibly fun It's also incredibly fast and it is dangerous, right? And with that being said options are an incredible tool for risk management and also optimizing opportunity, right? And so when we talk about options, what are we talking about, right? And we're talking about volatility products essentially, right? And so what I'm sharing here is the at the money IV It's a volatility term of Bitcoin, right? And so what we can see here is over the last few days volatility is exploded And so that creates a very interesting environment for us to trade One is the expectation is volatility in the market is priced up So the market is expecting that we do get large ranges So also as traders we need to understand that's a risk metric, right? If the expectation is that there's going to be a higher volatility, we need to watch our backs, right? And how do we do that? We do that with options contracts So in order to kind of put on some some positions, I believe I gotta switch over and share a different screen here Perfect and then Mike if If there's anything you're interested in feel free to stop me and we can kind of adjust and go around that as well So there's a couple key levels that that they're all kind of price and off of right and so Obviously all-time highs is in play But then also 67 where we're kind of trading top of this channel is in play, right? This is this is the weekly you to one on the price map And while yes price has bounced back Does not mean it has to trade higher, right? We need validations for that to happen, right? One of those validations is is a trade over the UT one upper upper alert or alert distance metric, right? And so as I build out kind of this portfolio, it's thinking about all these levels, right? So we want to make a play for all-time highs. How do we do that one is? we come in here and We'll come into some of these weekly expirations and So what we can do is we're trading roughly around 67,000 And so we get to we get to incorporate this volatility component to our strategy So if we come in and we sell One of the 67s we get a pal. That's something like this, right? And so we make money if the trade goes lower than 67 This is what's considered to be a short call a lot of people will do this against They're already existing Bitcoin. They're already existing ether. It's a widely known covered call strategy in a sense But we're gonna beef it up a bit so that we can take advantage of these structure points, right? So with all-time highs in play the next level that we were interested in if we kind of toggle over to John's screen is That ut2 right and so that's going to be priced around 7698.5 right and so if I come down here and I look at our portfolio our portfolio were net Delta negative point five one right and so I could come in and actually make us long a bit of Delta So that we can take advantage of a move to all-time highs, right? And so if we're net negative point five one, let's buy point six right and see how that looks on the chart, right? Immediately what this does is this shifts our payout structure, right? And so instead of having just making money if price trades under now we have more of a volatility position, right? And so you'll see that a keys directly off of that ut2 And so the expectation is over the next two days if we're going to trade to the ut2 and pull back We want to be in a short full-assility position, right? And to do that well here We have a little bit long Delta, but we have a short Vega position, right? And that short Vega will benefit in the terms of theta and we'll collect all this premium Off of these ski levels, right? And so correct me if I'm wrong Mike, but that that down That down level is going to be around 64. I believe it was 63 600 And the beauty of this kind of structure is as we trade higher, let's say we get the validation over the ut1 Upper alert distance well we can we can come in and we can buy a little bit more Delta, right? And so let's say we come in here when we buy a little bit more Delta We can change how we are playing this upward move, right? And so what this gives us the ability to do is we don't have to take a directional approach on the market In outright risk we can use these other components of options contracts to mitigate some of our risks, right? And so Inversely if the market were to trade lower and let's say we're going to trade under the ut1 negative alert distance Well, we're going to want to come in here and hedge up some of that Delta risk, right? And to do that Excuse me Spencer. Could could you give a little overview of Delta and Theta? Just so people have a better understanding of what those Greeks mean Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, so let's take off this option component, right? So everybody's familiar if if you're long Bitcoin, this is kind of your payout, right? This is considered to be a Delta payout Your payout is your long one Bitcoin Bitcoin goes up a thousand bucks It goes down a thousand bucks your P&L will reflect plus or minus a thousand dollars, right? Options contracts have a little bit interesting different components to it the larger Greeks that everybody's interested in are going to be your Delta component Your Theta component your Gamma component, right? And all of these different Aspects of the option contract will matter and how you trade them, right? And so that's your Delta component. This is your straight line your gamma component is going to be in relation to Delta, right? So How much does the options contract move with the underlying price, right? So what we'll notice is if we take these off and I'm a visual learner, so it's it's always easy for me to kind of just show on a portfolio if we put that same 67 contract on And we sell that right you'll notice here that We start to lose our money Around sixty six sixty seven thousand dollars, right? And that's when the option contract goes from out of the money to in the money, right? And you'll see that the rate of change in the green line is quite different than the purple line The purple line is what's considered to be the extrinsic value Or the intrinsic value sorry of the option contract the green line is that gamma component So you'll see there's a little bit of what's called in option world convexity And so what we lose here in relation to time is is gamma As we kind of go through the duration of this contract you'll notice that that green line Starts to match that purple line, right? And that's what's considered to be Theta right and so when we think about options portfolios We can think about it in many different ways one if you're short an option and it's out of the money You're looking to collect the data right so we benefit if the trade of Bitcoin closes below sixty seven thousand Come March 8th, right which is in around a day and a half of trade, right? That's our expected payout our expected payout here is in $1,500 in USD, right? If let's say at expiration we were to trade to 71 our expected payout if we were to do no delta hedging Would be negative two thousand dollars, right? And so John is there anything else in terms of that portfolio? You want me to speak on a little bit further or a little bit more granular? Well, so when I think about yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, sorry my mic was muted I was just saying they know that's great. Um, if you you know, you can get into more details and kind of step-by-step In a different presentation for us. Yeah for sure. Thank you sure So because we know there's a couple things we know that are facts in the market, right? One is fall is up And so if the market were to break to all-time highs the expectation is all is going to continue higher And if it doesn't and we break a little bit lower We want to take a short fall position And so we can just key that off into this portfolio Just how we did right? And so what that does is that creates a little bit more leniency within our ability to trade this this current market, right? Instead of short one contract sell two contracts and we're at risk of the market kind of moving to seventy thousand and we're down Four grand in that situation. Hey in this situation with the sold contracts against us We're able to really smooth out that risk curve And so what options do is create the ability to take an optimized opportunity and also manage risk And so that's and that's largely Kind of the viewpoint of the current options Is there anything Mike? Is there anything on on the chart that you want me to kind of key off of or or throw up on the Chart and and come up with different strategies around Options are are great because you can come up with any strategy Um, yeah, so what what if we break towards the lower area which John also mentioned which was Around that What is it? $60,000 if I'm not mistaken correct me if I'm wrong John So what what if we have like this really big drop Surpassing all the previous price stock structure that we've established today. How would you go about that then? Sure sure, absolutely. Let me let me jump over here and that's gonna be in the realm of Delta Which is exactly price map, right? And so let me jump over and and stream the price map for you All right, so price map here, right? What what would validate kind of a stalling at this level and and potentially risk to the downside Well a trade under the UT one alert distance minus, right, which is right around 67,000 More around probably 69 900 right and in that scenario what we would need to do is We would need to come in and sell a little bit more Delta, right we would need to hedge off that risk and so What we would do is we would come in here and I would come into the perp market and Immediately I would say all right. Well if I'm concerned about a 60,000 Dollar move, let's sell a little bit more Delta right and then the portfolio becomes More short Delta and you'll see the more short we sell the more We kind of get this this smoothing effect to our P&L Does that make sense? Yeah, so essentially you're you're continuously in two positions and you basically either, you know Increase them or decrease them based on the incoming data and how the market performs according to the playbook Exactly exactly nice. I like Yeah, so that I mean the beauty of options is as you can smooth out these curves a lot Which is incredibly helpful Also in the other respect is you can buy just straight outrides and so instead of let's say taking a directional approach on the market and Let's say hey, you think that all-time highs are in play, but but you don't really want to risk a lot of capital You can come out here and play that just in outright calls right and to do that You can come out and buy either short dated. It's all in reference to time So the first approach I showed you was less degenerate a lot more management And risk mitigation this one would be just in in terms of okay. You've made some money from this rally Let's let's keep that profit rolling If these burn to zero, it's okay because it's it's still risk capital within that portfolio So you could come out here and buy a 70,000 and what you'll see is you put down 500 bucks and if let's say we get a blowout move to 80,000 before expiration You put down 500 you make 10,000 those are those those are the The the glamorous lottery trades that that you see all over Twitter So there's a couple ways to approach this market. That's that's a lot of fun I often am going to be more on the risk management side of things. So that's how I would that's how I would approach it and I guess I will stop streaming this and then Mike if this is there anything else that you want to hop into real quick or we'll we'll kind of wrap it up Yeah, I think that's that's a well-rounded session right with with with some outlook with some facts on top of it And then you know you covering the options. It's a very Very full-rounded. I would say Perfect perfect. Let me let me hop over here And I'll hop over to the the PowerPoint and then we'll wrap it up for the day. So All right, so to to wrap it all up Let's see See which okay to wrap it all up and All right, let's this is shared. All right So in terms of options strategy There's a couple ways you can use it one is to Entry and trade selection, right? So we went through kind of how to build a portfolio around certain price structure and Events right the next is within risk management and Optimizing opportunities right options give you an incredible way to Really dropped on your risk, but also optimize the current opportunities at hand right instead of going out there and trying to hit a Home run we can come out there and try to hit a single and still make some money and Incredibly volatile events and the last is is about optimizing trade tactics and that's within order order book events, right? And so that's keying off of Bookmap and understanding. Hey, this is where the liquidity is sitting This is where I want to start looking at these levels, right? And so when book map aligns with price map The trigger on that on that alert is is significantly higher, right? And so what are we trying to do at Dharma capital trading? Everything's fact focus, right? And so if you have any questions feel free to reach out to us at info at Dharma capital trade And our method is incredibly simple. It incorporates a statistical outside view Which helps slow down the decision-making process and minimize biases, right? Yes, we want to take risks That's how you make money in the game But at the same time we want to be here tomorrow, right? And that's our largest view It's it's a risk management first before taking risk, right? Last year is trade with clarity So visit Dharma capital trade and then you can find us on X at Dharma cap trading Our YouTube is Dharma capital trading Substack Dharma capital trading and then again info at Dharma capital dot trade And then lastly if you'd like to reach out to me personally my name is Spencer Regal I am the options chief strategist for Dharma capital trading Feel free to reach out to me at Spencer at Dharma capital dot trade or follow me on Twitter at underscore Regal and then yeah Thanks Mike for hopping on really appreciate the outlook if there's anything that you want to kind of wrap up The floor is yours Yeah, I think I think it's it's very clear what the expectations are Amen to everything you said risk management is absolutely key You know, we want to be here tomorrow. So if you're trading Whatever product it is, you know know your risk before you I would say less be less less words I would say is make sure that you know beforehand what you're getting yourself into so that you Even if you're wrong on the wrong side of things that you will have enough left to live another day Right, right exactly. All right Well, I think that is all And We're gonna be back on next week Wednesday Same time same place. So feel free to stop by and and then we can chat more on on some new topics The markets incredibly active the markets back. So there's always gonna be something to talk about Absolutely Well, thank you guys. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insights and look forward to more sessions Likewise, thanks for having me on and have a great evening


Good. Okay. Is this on? I don't know. I can't hear. There it is. Hi everyone, how are you? And welcome to panel number three of how did you make that? I am going to first introduce our two guests who are making their way to the table. Melanie Joseph founding artistic producer of the Foundry and Jacob Pedrone founder and artistic director of the Soul Project. For those of you who don't know me which would not be a surprise. I am a writer and performer and I do autobiographical work most recently my solo play, Hi, Are You Single? Hi, Are You Single? was presented in the Under the Radar Festival at the Public Theater which is why Andrew Kircher thought that I would be appropriate because he said that I was charming and funny and so that I could make a talk charming and funny. Well, we'll try. I think I did one out of two yesterday charming and funny. Okay, so I'm going to aim for two out of two today. All right, let's talk to these wonderful folks. First of all let's see if your mics work. I hope they do. We're going to use mics. I'm a big proponent of that because you never know who in the room may or may not be hard of hearing. Even though it's a small room, I want to be accessible to everyone. Let's begin test. Can you hear me? Can everyone hear me? Yes. I think we're good. Let's start with Jacob since you're right here. You're both very charming. I can tell you that. But Jacob, tell us a little about the Soul Project for those who are unfamiliar and what sort of led you to create what is referred to on your website. It's not a theater company, but a theater initiative. Well, thank you all for, thank you to the Pralude Festival for having me here and it's an honor to be in the company of these two artists. So thank you. So the Soul Project is, yes, it is a new theater initiative and the way that we like to describe it is it's trying to promote a more inclusive American theater. The impetus to start the Soul Project began in 2013 when I arrived at the Public Theater. I was a producer on staff there and when I just began to kind of assess the sort of ecology or the ecosystem in New York City, I just saw that it was a very homogenous community that when I looked at the seasons off Broadway, they didn't really reflect the wonderful kaleidoscope of our great city. The stages were homogenous. And so I thought to myself, could I create an initiative that would allow us to really widen the circle in a really intentional way and specifically lift up Latinx voices. Latino playwrights just don't have the kind of visibility that I think they deserve. So what the Soul Project is, is it's essentially identifying Latinx playwrights and we pair them with leading off Broadway theaters in New York City and those theaters commit to producing their plays. And that's the initiative. The hope is that we create a body of work that really represents the city of New York and represents our community in all of its kind of fullness. The other dimension to the initiative is that after the work premieres here in New York City with the different off Broadway partners that we identify regional theaters around the country who then commit to the kind of what I like to call the continued life of the play. So the hope is that each playwright will not only have their production in New York, but then we'll go out into the regions. And so we really create kind of a national movement of celebrating and lifting up Latinx playwrights. Extraordinary. Extraordinary. Isn't it? And so are you. I'm ready to hear about the Foundry. Talk to us about the Foundry and what that organization. It has a long history. So just try to give us, you know, a summary for those who are unfamiliar. There doesn't seem to be. But my instruction was to start at a base on. So that is why I asked that. Excavating and building the archive of the company 23 plus years, 74 individual posts and sort of baby websites. Could you use the mic, please? So I'm sorry. I didn't realize. So I have been. I had my first day off on Wednesday since the end of June. I've just been a maniac excavating literally every single solitary thing we've done since 1994. And it's, it's been kind of a privilege more than it's been a nightmare also, but a really good nightmare. And when Andrew asked me to do this, I thought, okay, it seems like a good, it seems like a good time. So we just beta launched the Foundry website. Our website crashed everything back up the site. The host was hacked by some Russian mobsters and they lost everything and everyone lost all their sites. So we had to rebuild. So that's what just happened. So I do want to say before I tell you a little bit about the company that you might not know is that this year we're taking a pause. We aren't doing any shows, community programs or dialogues. Well, we're doing the ambassadors program. I'll come back to that. But we're actually taking a pause to look back and see what the heck we did for 23 and a half years and think about what the Foundry might become next. As a useful entity in the theater world. So I'll just say that I, it's not a starting night for, we never have had a season. We've never had a building. We've never had subscribers. We have done from the beginning productions. Well, we make work. We've done some existing works as well, but primarily all the work we do is by commission. So we do theater dialogues and different kinds of community programs. The idea of the Foundry is primarily to look at the agency of artists, not only as makers of art, but as makers of the world. And so there's a lot of politics involved in that. And I would say the three things that really lead the work we do are invitation, making and something else. But invitation and making right now is what I'm thinking a lot about. We think of all of the shows that we do, everything that we do as another opportunity. They invite people to come together and think about their relationship to what it means to be alive in the world and making the world. Because you make the world every day, right? So that's kind of the gist. Does that give enough information? Of course it does. Absolutely. That's terrific. Now, I'm curious, because I saw one of the in-development projects on your new website, which looks fabulous, by the way, for a beta website that came about because your last one just died. I saw that you were potentially developing a book about the history of the company. And is that something that you're going to continue to think about in this year that you're taking to reflect? Yeah, this reflection equals doing the archive and getting it up and cleaning it up. And we're making a book. The website exists as the sort of coffee table book. It has all of the pictures and all the everything and all the histories of the shows, etc. But the book is hopefully and has begun to really try to understand the evolution of the inquiry of the questions we were asking. Over those years. As something that may be useful to makers and social justice workers, I think that the foundry in some way itself is an art project. The company is an art project. And so it's gone through its various evolutions of asking what art is, and what a company is, and what a theater is, and what a citizen is, although I don't like that word. What a maker of the world is. Wonderful. Now, your company that's been around since 1994, your company that was... 94. 94. Yes. Yes. That's what I said. It's okay. In 1994, you scared me. 10 more years, I didn't do it. 1994 and an initiative established in 2016. So obviously we have two sides of the spectrum here. Very new and very established. And both of you don't have buildings. Both of you rely on partnerships with established companies to either present your work or co-produce your work. That kind of... No? Rent? Total rentals. Totally. Okay. And so let's start there. We can. We can. But that's a question that I wouldn't have known to ask. So I'll come back to it. But you are a company that is partnering with other organizations. And that's the pillar of the work that you're doing. It wasn't that, oh, I'm going to just produce my... You know, lots of young people are starting their own companies all the time. And some of them don't last. A lot of them don't last. But yours is already making a huge impact in just over a year because you're partnering with these major organizations. How did you know that that was the route you wanted to take? And how did you go about... Obviously you have an administrative background at the public and at Oregon Shakespeare and other places, you know. But how did you know this is the model that I want to take? And how did you parlay those relationships so quickly into viable partnerships? Yeah.  Because the way that I describe it is that it is kind of a big experiment. I wasn't sure it was going to work. You know, when I communicated the vision to some sort of early supporters, they were like, I don't think those artistic directors are going to sort of want to share any kind of artistic control or want to be in partnership with an initiative that is very specific. And so I wasn't sure, actually. But what I did know from the get-go was that we had to really... I'm looking at my dear friend Stephanie and one of the things that we talk about a lot in our work is really banging down the doors of these kind of predominantly white institutions and to really catalyze real change around promoting racial equity. So it was about, in my mind, it was very much like, we're not going to self-produce. We're going to bang down the door of these large off-roadway institutions and really ask to have a real seat at the table and to claim space in a real way. And I think fortunately, because I have a background as a producer, starting at Center Theatre Group in Los Angeles and certainly with Steppenwolf and OSF, where, you know, Martha Levy and Bill Roush have been incredible mentors. They're both... Martha has since passed away and Bill continues to run the company at OSF. I think that one thing that they really taught me was the value of relationships, that so much of what it means to make theater is relationships, is to sit across from someone and to understand their story in a deep way. So that was really the orientation that I think I entered this work with. So as I met with the different artistic directors, that's where I started from, was let's build a meaningful relationship together, let's go on a journey together, let's create a more inclusive American theater. And I think, you know, who doesn't want to get on board with that vision? And so it's not... So it is about promoting Latinx writers, but I think that the larger invitation to these off-roadway companies that are partners is, let's widen that circle, let's actually create real systemic change and really give voice to people who don't have them. I mean, I think they could be doing it across the board and it's wonderful that this is happening. Like it's happening at the public this season. So wow, wow, wow. Yes, everyone, please come see Edepis El Rey. It's a New York premiere by one of our master writers. I mean, this is a prime example of a writer who's built such an amazing body of work, Luis Alfaro, you know, he's taking these Greek classics and put them in a contemporary context. And Edepis El Rey is so fantastic and spellbinding. And we just released a couple more tickets. The show runs until December, but please, please come and see it and let people know. Because I think the way that we let artistic directors and communities know that we can sell tickets is by having butts in seats. So, yeah. You know, how did you identify the playwrights that you wanted to be a part of this launch? So it's very much a collaboration. So between the Soul Project, I work with a collective of artists. There are six other artists that I work closely with. We're sort of like a little sort of mini theater company. And we actually enter a curatorial process with every partner. So in the case of Oscar Eustis, you know, we gave Oscar a list of writers to think about. He sort of talked to me about the artist he was excited by. And then we landed on Luis Alfaro. The same thing happened with Susan Bernfield at New Georgia. We did a play, The World Premier of Alligator, by Hilary Betis. And then in our partnership with Rattlestick, it was the same sort of thing. We gave a list to Daniella. Daniella sort of said, I'm interested in supporting Martin Zimmerman. I was like, hey, that's perfect. We love Martin. We want to support him. And Seven Spots in the Sun was the thing that we birthed together. And we did the New York premiere of that. It's fine. You ask a question? Go ahead. Am I E? I haven't actually. I'm a big fan of his work. I went to their gala that was fantastic. Oh, there we go. Can we please use the mic? Is this Ralph Pena who runs my theater is doing similar. At least it's driven by carving out space for most Asian American writers. And they've really, I mean, they've really levered attention in a really gorgeous way and a really responsible way. I just feel like you guys should know each other. Because he's also been doing it for 25 years. They do fantastic work. And I think one of the things that the Soul Project is also allowing us to do is to talk to these different artistic leaders or gatekeepers. And the awards that we use to describe their functions, their gatekeepers, they can make decisions to promote real changes. We talk about intersectionality. So in putting the creative teams together for these different shows, one of the mandates for these different partner companies is that there's real intersectionality. So that it's not an all-white creative team. So for you directors out there, it's always so disappointing when you open the playbill and you see, you know, again, I think that the work is made richer when you have a racially diverse creative team. So it's been really, it's been such a blessing that the Soul Project is allowing us to actually have all these different points of intersection to promote real change. Yeah. Now let's go back to the question of rentals. Because this is called How Did You Make That? And I want to know how do you choose where to go? Where you want your productions to be? The production decides. Because we make most of our stuff from scratch, so we don't know what it's going to be until it starts to have a skeleton. And so then it's, I mean it's not always as beautiful as that because sometimes it makes itself into something and you can't get the space for it so you get the best you can. But some of our work has been, as you must know now, in the theaters and some have been on buses and in restaurants and in the Brooklyn Bridge Anchorage and various things. And the last show we did, we actually turned a theater into a gallery. And so it's really the show identity, the development process of whatever this thing becomes determines then where we're, you know, the kind of architecture that it belongs in. And I also should say, just because I don't want to be orthodox about we rent everything, there have been some co-presenters with us who've actually, but we don't seek that, we never have. Because I just, I think we want the autonomy of being able to do what, to understand what we mean by what we're doing, especially because it's new and usually the structure of it, who knows if it's going to work, who the hell ever knows. So having, so we don't, you know, it's dicey when you partner with somebody when you don't know what it's going to be. And sometimes it's fabulous and sometimes it's like, hmm, that was an interesting reach.  So mostly when we need a theater, we rent it. And sometimes we're presented. Like again, I've just been, I forgot about all of these shows that we had done at the ice factory first. I'd forgotten that we'd done them at the ice factory and then they went to St. Anne's or the public or hero there. And I, because the noisy ones are the big theaters. So, but, yeah, so there's no one way, but typically we don't seek the kind of, we don't look for the kind of partnerships like that. We haven't so far. And community is such a huge pillar of everything that you do. You know, there's a thing on the website that says productions and then there's a thing that says dialogues and it's all these talks and ways that you've engaged the community of New York. And, you know, it's so community engagement is sort of becoming something that's invoked now. Well, hopefully it's better than invoke, but it is popular. Yes. And what, how do you reach people who don't often come to the theater and engage a community that is, that is, you know, outside the bounds of who we might be marketing tickets to all the time? Well, I also want to add to that. How do you engage artists who don't usually come to dialogues? Or can you, like, it's a, it is a harmonic challenge because we're always hoping that artists will come to the dialogues. It's the hardest thing to do. Oh, yeah. It used to be in the, I think it's because our dialogues have changed so much over the years. I would say the first 10 years where the dialogues were kind of paused. Okay, wait a minute. This is happening? This is actually happening? Is this what we mean? Wait a minute. Is this, is this it? And then the more we would get people to come and talk to us about what was actually happening, the more we realized that not only did they know it was actually happening, but they were so advanced in terms of the way they were either prefiguring other ways for things to happen. And, like, one of my favorite events was this thing that R.J., one of my partners was R.J. McConaughey, who's a social justice worker, and he curated this series called This Is How He Dipped This Is Out.  And it was all, it was a kind of, I called it a radical show and tell, this is all of these demonstrations of completely other structures that are going, systemic processes that are, like, this is actually happening, which also comes from lipstick traces. This is actually happening. And it was the most, I couldn't believe all of, like, it was like, you're kidding, that, you're kidding, that, that, that. And that was in 2011, I think, or I'm not sure, somewhere in the 210s. And it was very, very hard to get artists to come to that. And so that's been, I think, for me as big a challenge as, in fact, probably more of a challenge, because we have done so many different projects with different communities, mostly social justice grassroots communities, who themselves have so much agency and presence and smarts and organizing skills. So I've always been so attracted to those kinds of communities.  I think social justice communities are a lot like artists because they're makers. They hold what isn't there until it's there, and they have to, right? So we've just developed so many, such currency with people in those communities. So it's, but they also didn't want to come to the theater. So we started the audience ambassadors program in 2010, I think it was. So that's a program where, because we had this whole big meeting with all these people that we had just done this big, huge community theater festival called, This Is How We Did It, or so I can't remember whatever it was. New York City, just like I pictured it. Also another Stevie Wonder song from, you know, that great song. What is that song? Living in the City. So, and then we did a show called Telephone, and no one came. We couldn't get anybody came. We had worked with something like, I don't know, 150, 200 people for a year, and nobody came to Telephone.  And the most interesting thing, which, and I have it on tape, I was listening to it on tape for the archive. And they would say things like, I don't know what to wear, or what is that, where is that? Or what am I gonna, what's that theater? Or what's that play? Or like the simplest things. So it was, it had nothing to do with money, because they were offered free tickets all the time. So it had nothing, I mean, of course it had to do with money, especially with political people, insofar as how dare those theaters charge that much money, which is a big, interesting thing when we were at the public. But the, and we had free tickets. Anyway, that's another very, it's an interesting story. It's not a bad story. So they, we, so we just said, okay, well we're gonna hire five community organizers from around the city every year to organize groups of people, and we're gonna go to the theater. And that's what we do. And so we've been doing that every year in fall and spring. And the theaters have been, although everybody's getting a little tired of our asking, but the theater's for the most part for many years have been incredibly generous, because we wanna bring 50 people. You know, so that's, so we've seen everything, we've taken them to everything. So does that, that, yeah, that's really extraordinary. That's fabulous. And I think now is the time when we can open it up to questions. Now there's a rule about these questions. And that is no statements, no personal narratives about how your lives have been touched by their work, just questions. And so that we can get as much out of these two illustrious individuals as possible. All right, so does somebody have a microphone to be running? Yes, we do. So feel free to raise your hands if you have questions for these folks. Yes, sure, if you... Oh no, there's a jack-o-lantern. Okay, Jack has a quit. Thank you so much for starting us. Thank you. Hi, a question for Jacob. Just, and I know a lot about Soul Projects, this sounds strange, but part of your mission is going into these institutions and describe them as predominantly white institutions. And essentially what you're asking them to do at the very base level is to change. And I imagine that a lot, when you walk into someone's theater and say, I would like you to change, please, that there is some resistance to that, right? Or at least there's maybe some bristling at the very least. And I was curious about how you navigate that, those points of tension when you're at showing someone places where they can do better. Oh, Jack. I'm looking at Stephanie just because we're engaged in this work all the time. But no, it's such a great question and it's incredibly challenging. But what I have found has worked is that it's an invitation that I really try to disarm them by saying it's an invitation for us to go on a journey together. And why don't we enter this work with the spirit of generosity and a spirit of as a gatherer rather than as a hunter? Because I don't know all the answers and neither do you, but let's actually kind of create the answers together. And because what systemic change looks like for the public theater is going to be very different than what it looks like for Tim at Playwrights Horizons versus what it looks like for Bernie at MCC Theater, Bernie Telsey. So I always just try to meet them where they're at and when there's white fragility because they're opt-in is and defensiveness, I always just say, let's bring our shoulders down and again, I don't have all the answers, you don't have all the answers, but let's actually create the solutions together. And somehow that seems to kind of work and even before a partner comes on board, I really just try to have a very frank, honest conversation where I say, are you ready to do the work?  Because this is about organizational change and it has to start from the very top. So not just about you as the artistic leader and your executive director, but how does it touch all parts of the organization? The board of directors, the staff, and then of course the audience, the programming, the communities that you're serving. So it does feel like a big lift and to be totally honest, I think there are some theaters that the appetite for it is so fantastic and then there are some, you know, where it's gonna just be a harder lift, but again, meeting them where they're at and always describing it as an invitation. On the founder, I keep on hearing the echoes of Joseph Boyce and his social sculptures and bringing it to the people and engaging the people. And I also hear the theater of the oppressed where bringing it to the community and then having the community get involved in even writing legislation. How are you engaging the community more in their face rather than in a theater environment? There's no one way. What I want to make really clear before I begin to try to answer that question is that the Foundry is an ecology. So we do high art and sometimes in community theater and we do the ambassadors program and free-range Thanksgiving and all kinds of different invitations to people to consider what they are in the world and how we are together in the world. And so I want to be really clear that although I love Freerie, I'm not Freerie, pardon me, while I love Boa, I'm not, in fact, nothing we've ever done has been radical in that particular way. I take great honor in your recognizing Joseph Boyce. In fact, I think I might use that as one of the tags for the shows. It's an ongoing, honest to goodness. There's not one way. It's very organic. And the great thing about not having a season and a building and a responsibility to filling the household, you know, 52 weeks a year, we can sort of follow the work. You can follow the work and you can follow the relationships and you can follow people's ideas. And so I know this is not a specific answer, but when we did the Community Theatre Festival, the Citywide Community Theatre Festival, it grew out of the year before we had given our dialogue series that year. We had given the curation over to five community organizations to curate the dialogues. We had a subject idea. We threw it up, whatever. And of the six dialogues, five of them were performances.  So maybe we should do, let's do a Community Theatre Festival. Let's do a Community Theatre Festival. So it literally, we just followed because it's a nimble company, thank goodness. And so we can follow, we can follow our way. And sometimes we're dismally a mess, like a failure at the invitation. And it's very challenging with, it's never challenging with the community. It's commonly challenging with the organizational structure of social justice community organizations. And you understand it. They have campaigns.  And I don't necessarily, and we don't organize that way. We don't have sign up sheets and not that we would prevent it, but we have a different kind of politics.    It breaks my heart, but it's true. There are people who really hate us. So that's their fault, their problem.  It's too sectarian. You're both so generous with all of the invitation language, which I really appreciate, but I have to ask if there's ever been a moment where you just had to demand. Fabulous. Steph, that's such a good question. Do you want to go first on that? I have a very specific, I actually have a very specific example and I wonder, maybe the audience can tell me once I share what the example is, because it's so specific and some might actually say a little, maybe even a little reductive in terms of what the request was, but I think it's okay to share this example, but basically we were trying to figure out how to, I prefaced this by saying when we started to think about the different partner companies, the public theater was certainly on the list. We felt it was so important because under the leadership of Joe Papp, Latino theater was really, the public theater was a real home for Latino theater and so part of, and film, and there was the programming swell to a big festival that used to happen at the Delacorte in Central Park. The budget ballooned to $2 million. So one of the things that I wanted to talk to Oscar a lot about when I first arrived at the public theater in 2013 was, Oscar, how do we reactivate that history? How do we actually get Latinos back into this theater, back into Lafayette Street? And so, you know, so to have Edepecel Ray there, to have Luis Alfaro in that building is incredibly special and so I was going back and forth with marketing to figure out how do we actually communicate to the world that the SOLE project is a real partner in this and so in our community, opening night, right guys, is a big deal because it's the step and repeat, you know, you have your actors, your creative team, your writer, your director, who stand, you know, in front of that thing and pictures get taken and those pictures exist in perpetuity. And so the request, the demand was, I think it's really important that we have the public logo and the SOLE projects logo next to each other and the public, you know, there was real concern that well gosh, if we do that for you, it's just going to open a huge can of worms and the public, rightfully so, I think was trying to, needing to protect their brand, which I totally understand, but what I said was, as I said, I can appreciate the concern, but the way that I described it was, the way that I described it to them as I said, it's more than, it's actually not about the logos. Why this is important and why I am making this demand is because it's about artists of color claiming space, that we get to claim space in a very predominantly white community. This is white supremacy, so part of what we get to do is we get to say, we matter, we are here and we are staying. And so that was the moment where I felt like I had to make that demand and I'm very grateful that the demand was listened to and we will have both the Soul Project logo and the Public Theater logo on the step and repeat on October 24th for opening night and I think it is a real testament to the public to really hearing that we get to claim space as people of color. So, oh my gosh, I feel like are you okay? Now I just want to get off the planet. I just feel like where else can I go because capitalism is killing me. So, I mean the fact that you act, I know that place. I know that place, that that is what unfortunately has to take up your time to fight for and find your generosity of invitation for. It's like when? But that's, you know, that's my, you know, well it's such a difficult one because I think that I think that I feel less demanding in my hope for change in my politics. I really do feel like I'm part of an evolution of an ecological evolution and again, I perfectly well understand that it's easy for me to say I have food, I'm white, I'm educated, blah, blah, blah. But I feel, I feel excited by what Grace Lee Boggs used to say now is the time on the clock of the world for us to grow our souls and that is the most important activism of our time and a woman who lived to 102 was an activist as someone to pay attention to. So, I feel not demanding in that although listen to me, right? But I don't fight, I actually don't, one of the reasons I rent, I just don't want to fight.  Like, let's make something entirely otherwise.  Let's try it. Right? So, I just so I don't feel demanding in my politics. I get demanding and I hate myself for it but it's a darn truth. Especially when I'm not sure what to do. You know, I get just, no, do you think that's true? No worked with me on a show. Do you think that's true? Like, I do feel I'm like basically a generous, I feel generous by default but there are times when I'm like, no. I don't even want to think about the other side. So, but I'm working on it. Maybe. Extraordinary question and next year we'll have a panel on just like demands. Cause I think that was extraordinary. And I'm enraged and now I want to like keep talking about, oh wow. Step and repeat. Okay. Other questions? Okay, perfect. You're next. Yo, go, go, go. Oh my gosh, it's my favorite usher from the public theater. Hi. A question I guess for both of you. What ways can, and this is a really broad question, what ways can we make theater more accessible to communities other than financial other than financial initiatives? Community. What do you mean by that?  Like what do you mean? So, as an usher at the public theater most of the audiences I deal with are 40s to 60 older white people who have been going to the theater for years and I, and whenever there's an audience that isn't just that group it's like, wow and there usually tend to be a lot more appreciative of the work and basically how do you reach out to the New York City community because the audiences I see in the theater aren't reflective of the New York City community and you said even when something's free sometimes people still don't come. What ways can we reach out to the people and what ways are we failing in making the theater accessible on a non-financial level? Yeah, cool. No, you go. When you have an audience that doesn't look like the white 40s to 60s what are they therefore usually? Absolutely not a mystery. I think so. I can't honest to God tell you that of 23 in that blah blah years I bet 35% of my life I've spent wondering about invitation. Like what is the nature of an invitation? What is the, how does the show itself contain that invitation? How does the space contain that invitation? Like what is the most what is the, what are all the languages of invitation? And so there's certain and it's such a harmonic when it's people who are being invited to come to something that is not I mean first of all, who's got time?  So you're asking them to give of their time to something that they don't normally give their time to and in a place that they've never been etc. So it's a lot of hurdles. So it's kind of why I think there's an ecology and I think the public's doing it now. You know there's or beginning to there's a lot of different sort of, I mean if you think of, don't think, well if you think of you're making a symphony of invitation which means there's lots of different instruments that are going to ring and have to learn to be played. And so it's it's the project that Stephanie does it's the project that Lear or the new person does. It's you know it's it's all of those and it takes time honey it takes so much time that's where I don't feel demanding you know I again working with Archie McConaughey was life changing when he was at the Founder for five years and he said to me once we were asked by a funder who was just becoming interested in arts and social justice we had to hide all of our stuff from most of the funders for so many years and then suddenly all the funders are getting excited. So they wanted to give us money they called us and they said give us a three year plan and so Archie and I walked out of there and Archie looked at me and he said if they were really serious about this they'd ask for a hundred year plan the work that we're doing is a hundred years of work and it shows up and the successes show up in so many different flavors so it's not and again I think it's in capitalism is in the way big time because everything is so transactional you know even if you're offering free tickets it's still like you're getting away without paying something so there's a lot of things to work on simultaneously in what this invitation is and it's not going to come tomorrow if for sure isn't and even if it comes tomorrow it needs to last so that would be my answer too we only have time for one more question I think it's this gentleman do you still want to ask the question okay my my question was about if there were times in both of your organizations when you felt that there was an impulse that you had or a pack that you wanted to explore but for any number of reasons you had to say like no we're doing this thing that's happening over here and specifically that's because hearing about the Foundry project not having freaking building for 26 years sounds kind of terrifying and I mean I can't imagine that it's hard to imagine that it's a lot of fun to find places to rent all the time so I was kind of curious okay well I have one more question so please let me know I actually think that so in the short time that the Soul project has been around I think there have been a number of times where I have to think deeply about the mission and vision and I think my job as the artistic director is does this decision get us closer to the mission because I feel like that always has to be sort of the north star and so I feel like I face that most with who the partner companies are because now has this kind of wonderful problem where initially it was me going out and sort of meeting with the different artistic directors you know we're going to produce 12 writers with 12 different off-Broadway theaters and we have more than 12 companies in New York City who want to be a part of this thing right so that feels like such a wonderful problem to have and so now it's the work of okay who are the companies as I mentioned earlier who are the companies ready to really do the work who are the companies that are committed to racial equity who are the companies that want to promote systemic change like you know so that for me feels like sort of the biggest decision that I feel like I'm constantly having to make and then the second is thinking about those writers, thinking about that body of work you know the way that we describe it is we want to create a kaleidoscopic body of work that really represents the Latinx community in a beautiful way but I imagine that as the Soul Project journey continues that I will continue to be faced with questions and challenges and I think that one of the best things that a leader can do is when a leader says I don't know and so to just to be able to actually invite that kind of the unknown you know I remember my old professor from graduate school he said this really great thing that always has stayed with me which is a good leader a good artistic leader is concerned with being right but they are deeply concerned with figuring out what is wrong and so I always think about that when am I making the right decision and when am I making the wrong one and knowing that I'm not always going to have the right answer in 23 years yeah yeah put that on your body for a minute in 23 years do you want this project to do you imagine this project for 23 years do you have any idea around the time or the my hope is that in 23 years an initiative like the sole project will absolutely not be needed that the sole project will have failed I talk about this very explicitly the sole project will have failed if the only time these partner companies produce a play by a Latinx writer is when they are doing it with the sole project the invitation is to change I think to Jack's point it's very intentional that we do not exist in perpetuity that once all 12 writers are produced the hope is that we will have planted enough seeds that will affect change across the entire country so you're talking 12 writers that you want to place 12 writers nationally in New York City and then see where you are and then basically hope that those artistic directors those gatekeepers that they pick up the mantle well and the artists pick up the mantle and that's exactly right you know, not just the gatekeepers what a way to end thank you all so much for coming thank you to Jacob and to Melanie