presenter. Jamie is from New Zealand which means he loves Lord of the Rings and sheep. No I won't tell any sheep jokes. Sorry. Anyways Jamie is actually the founder of the ancestral health society in New Zealand and also has a fantastic website he's presented every year right? I believe. And I'll let Jamie take it away. Thanks Ben. Thanks everyone for showing up this morning and thank you to the AHS team for giving this opportunity to present again this year. There are a handful of Kiwis presenting this year so I highly recommend if you've got the time to get along to both Mickey Willidan and Karen Zinn's presentation this morning so if you love New Zealand accents you'll love those two. Alright we'll get stuck into this. We've got a little bit of a contrast occurring in our modern populations when we start to look at our strength and our physical ability and particularly when we contrast that against our ancestors and people from non-industrialised countries. You can kind of see that we have a level of strength that perhaps is not appreciated very well in a Western society. When you start to see some of the survey figures come out looking at the strength and physical ability of our youth makes for fairly miserable reading overall. Every so often you'll see a report come through where they've looked at at 10 year olds and so measure their physical strength, their ability to to climb, their ability to hang off a bar those sorts of things and every single time those surveys come out they are a little bit worse than the previous survey and indeed you see some of these reports where some of the assessments that they try and put these youth through they just flatly refuse to do them. They flatly refuse to hang from a bar because it is never something that they've done before and you contrast that to anyone over a certain age and you know probably anyone over about age 40 where you are climbing trees and climbing roofs and jumping off and breaking limbs all the time the ability to kind of hang off something was neither here nor there it was sort of something you did probably most days. This is just sort of recent numbers just put a bit of an American spin on it the previous one was from the UK so just showing the deterioration and the fitness of our youth and particularly when you look at the fitness and strength of females and you'll see just by virtue of the slides you got here I've got this sort of presentation very heavily biased towards towards women because they are affected disproportionately by some of the factors that I'm going to go through and discuss. So you can see the number up there 42% actually drops down to something like 30% with with female youth and it's no surprise when we look at the the factors that we're exposed to in our modern Western world what are the what are the role models we have what's the environment that we're in? Well you know you look at the types of role models for women in particular strengths very unfashionable. If anyone wants to push my buttons after this presentation ask me about trying to buy a pair of jeans if you've got any leg muscles these days just doesn't work. We live in environments where strength is very much optional for us it's bad enough where I come from in New Zealand but as soon as you kind of hit hit the mainland US coming through the airports we see the number of travelators and escalators and everything else it allows you to opt out of your own physical movement you can contract your movement out to various devices various labor-saving devices and we're kind of a fairly heavy price for that. We were we were waylaid at San Francisco Airport for about five hours when we first came in on on Saturday and we spent most of that five hours watching people refusing to move people jumping on the travelators and just opting out of their movement. We're in a very sort of pharmaceutical rich environment with and probably a very unappreciated fact behind many of those pharmaceuticals is that they do have an impact on our muscle quality they do have an impact on our strength either directly or indirectly and it's probably fairly well appreciated that the class of drugs fall under the label of statins they do have a fairly direct impact on our muscle strength so as we were becoming more and more reliant on pharmaceuticals to prop our health up it is having an impact on our muscle quality and our muscle strength overall. Add all the factors up in our Western society and by the time that all of us in this room become dottery little old men and little old ladies this is what our strength gets reduced to sitting in a chair with a little stretchy band above our head trying to maintain the last slither of strength that we have the last piece of functionality that we might have so that we can maybe pick up a cup of tea without spilling it on ourselves. Good luck with anything beyond that. Whilst we've got this backdrop of an environment of basically lack of movement lack of physical activity and the effect on our strength we are more fat obsessed than we have ever been. We're not particularly worried about our strength and I'm probably preaching to a slightly different audience from what's out in the wider society but we're fat obsessed.   Many of the lectures that are taking place within this conference are about how we became obese, what happened, what was the critical factors. We're obsessing about how we get unfat very very rarely with the exception of a few key speakers and you're seeing probably a cool group of them today and certainly Keith Norris's talk yesterday. Very rarely do we obsess about strength and muscle mass and muscle quality certainly not as our primary focus it's kind of down the way a little bit after we've tackled the fat issue. We've become very binary in terms of how we view our bodies. We view ourselves as either fat or not fat. Now this is both the general public and I'd hate to say it, clinicians fall into this as well. Unfortunately many doctors will look at their patients, many trainers, many nutritionist, dietitians, they will look at their patients and they will view them as either fat or unfat or not fat. Very very binary. If you are not fat you are deemed by and large healthy certainly compared to those who are overtly obese in our modern society and I feel that we need to get past this sort of very binary thinking. Particularly when we take into account that our skeletal muscle mass is the largest tissue mass on our body and becoming more and more appreciated that muscle mass is an endocrine organ in and of itself. It's not just this mechanical entity that shifts your joints around and allows you to move through the environment that we are in. It is actually regulating the rest of our body via some of the signals that muscle mass sends out as part of that contractile process. When we go through some of those key functions outside of just sheer mechanical movement we can kind of see where some of those signals are coming from. Stephen Geynay touched briefly yesterday within his leptin talk on interleukin-6 and the signal that that seems to help regulate metabolism. We've got muscle mass helps regulate our immune function.  There is a little bit of early research out there looking at some of the signals being sent out from contractile muscle with regard to anti-tuma effects. Of course we have the effect of muscle mass on itself and on our bone density. The muscle mass becomes highly regulatory of itself. Contracting muscle leads to more contracting muscle. Contracting muscle increases your bone density and it's not just a mechanical thing it's coming from these compounds these things we call myokines. In effect these compounds are sort of functioning like hormones within our body giving muscle mass an endocrine function overall. Knowing this and when you sort of dive into the literature there's actually a fairly good level of literature around around some of these factors but when you actually look at it from a public health perspective we do not focus on muscle mass as a relevant endpoint. The vast majority of our public health measures that our public health recommendations do not consider your muscle mass, do not consider your strength. They're focused on fat, they're focused on disease, they're not sort of focused on anything to do with your muscle mass despite the fact that your muscle mass plays a very very important role in mitigating many of the things that we are trying to deal with at a public health level. So I'm going to park that there and we're going to focus on a couple of key issues with regard to our muscle mass and our muscle quality overall. The first one many people will be quite familiar with and it has been mentioned a few times already within this conference and that's sarcopenia. Now sarcopenia is any loss of muscle mass and function. Now traditionally it's always been associated with aging. It's been something that little old men and little old ladies suffer from later in the later years of their life but very recently and I think it's only been in the last sort of five or so years maybe a little bit less that the aging component has been taken out of that definition that it isn't something that is restricted to little old men and little old ladies. It is something that can affect you at any part of your lifespan. It's affected by chronic diseases. So many of the metabolic diseases that we face within our society, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, all those sorts of things have an appreciable effect on our muscle mass. It is impacted by low protein intake and obviously physical inactivity. Alongside that and probably the lesser known of the two is a condition called dyno-penia and this is where we look at not the muscle mass by itself, the actual contractile function of the muscle mass. So the neural aspects, the muscular aspects, how much force can that muscle that you have, how much force can it generate, how much power can it generate. Now dyno-penia can occur without any loss of muscle tissue at all. So I'm going to argue that we do have a good number of people within our society who probably look like they have good levels of muscle mass. You would not look at them and say that they are scrawny, that they are sarcopenic by any stretch, but that they are still suffering from this condition of dyno-penia and it's having an impact on them. A little bit of muscle physiology. I'll keep this sort of fairly basic level so I can understand it probably more than some of the people in the room. When we look at muscles, they are in effect slaves to the nerves that empower them or innovate them. So in a very easy sense, we have slow twitch muscles and we have fast twitch muscles. Now it gets a little bit more in depth than that but that's at its most basic level. Now those slow twitch and fast twitch muscles are there based on what nerve is feeding them. When we start to see some deterioration in muscle quality, part of it may be to do with the fact that some of these innovating nerves are being affected by multiple factors.  So if we have a nerve that is in effect cut from its muscle, the muscle will decline. So very loosely, this is sort of what we're talking about with sarcopenia, that the muscle below the nerve is starting to go into decline. So we see a decrease in the muscle mass overall. You can see it's sort of relatively clearly on these scans. So you can see, so as we go through our lifespan here, you've got more and more of these sort of white flecks appearing within the muscle masses as a slice through a thigh muscle. And these are non-contractile elements that are taking the place of where muscle fibres used to be. So it looks on that basis that it is a function of aging as you kind of go through your lifespan, you lose more and more of your contractile elements out of your muscle. But then you only need to look at a very similar slide like this, where you start looking at athletes and you do not see the same deterioration and contractile elements. So between a 40 year old athlete and a 70 year old athlete here, they both have pretty much exactly the same sort of muscle mass going on, compared to sedentary man where you can kind of see very, very low levels of contractile elements and very large non-contractile elements, which is mostly adipose tissue within that slide. There is a degree of compensation that can take place if there are any problems with an upstream nerve. So you can see here that if we were to, if something's happened to the fast twitch motor neuron, so the fast twitch neuron that was going and feeding those particular muscle fibres, there is the possibility that our slow twitch motor neurons can branch over and re-innovate some of those fibres as a degree of compensation. The problem that occurs when that happens is that those muscle fibres that used to be fast twitch muscle fibres by virtue of the nerve that fed into them have now taken on the characteristics of slow twitch muscle fibres. So you can imagine that what's going to happen to your muscle mass if it is being re-innovated by slow twitch fibres overall, or certainly your physical ability. So if we kind of look at what are the key elements involved with this, we suspect that dyna-penia is probably a little bit more common than sarcopenia, but certainly there's an interplay between the two. There's a bi-directional flow between the two of those. What's driving the dyna-penia seems to come from two directions. So we're seeing changes in the nervous system. There's something going on in terms of the neural input to the muscles, but there's also changes within the architecture of the muscle itself. So the actual muscle fibres seem to be deteriorating. As a part of some of these neural changes, we're seeing this of de-innovation, re-innovation, which is changing the muscle fibre type. This muscle fibre type, so if you take on slow twitch characteristics, you are losing a lot of your force development, your power development that you would have had from those fast twitch muscle fibres. And some of the key drivers of that, you can see down there, so we're seeing hormonal changes, inflammatory factors, protein intake and reduced mechanical stress. So those are more of the lifestyle factors. I guess the end result for what we're seeing with the general population is dysfunctional limitation initially, but if you push that to extreme, you're going to see a lot more physical disability as that takes hold. To summarise, I guess in a very sort of even more simplistic way, you can view your muscles as basically having hair and tortoise type characteristics. And it's good that we've got that. And I think Sir James have basically touched on it in his talk that we have the ability just to kind of mosey around at a relatively slow pace and we'll be using largely slow twitch fibres to do it. But when required, we can exert ourselves at a very, very high intensity and exert very high power outputs. And that's largely the result from our fast twitch fibres. Now whatever is going on in terms of the environmental factors which are affecting our muscle quality, it's the bunny that's getting it. It's the fast twitch fibres that are being disproportionately affected by those environmental factors.  And indeed, when you sort of take that out across lifespan, I guess one of the key things that we try to do with an ageing population is to try and increase a little bit of strength and a little bit of coordination and a little bit of balance to stop these people toppling over so that they're not breaking hips and other bones because that's, you know, you get to a little old man and a little old lady and you break your hip, you're in trouble. But we're, you know, we're starting to see this kind of decompress from that elderly population down into the general population. So what are the environmental factors? What is driving this? Why are we seeing this all of a sudden compared to our more ancestral populations? Well, when you look at it, there's inflammatory drivers. So there's this of just general low-grade chronic inflammation that seems to be having an impact. And this is a theme that we're seeing come through over and over again with all of the talks within this conference that this low-grade inflammation is very detrimental to our health overall across of many tissues within our body. There's a nutrition element, obviously. Part of that is obviously protein intake, but maybe that protein intake is also a marker for micronutrient status as well. So there's a part to play there. Obviously, we're inactive. We've got some disuse and immobility. Interestingly, Keith Norris touched on yesterday and his talk about the effects of being in microgravity environments up in space. And if we're looking at space exploration, we're going to need to answer a few serious questions before we try it. Having a discussion with Keith afterwards, we're in effect in our modern environments on Earth. We are creating these low-gravity environments because we are contracting our movement out to other devices.  The chair is doing it for you. All the machines that we use on our behalf, we're not exerting ourselves against gravity. We're asking the machine to do it for us. So in effect, whilst it's not the same sort of compressed time span that we're seeing with astronauts, we're certainly seeing similar effects over a more prolonged time period impact on our muscle mass. And then clearly, there are endocrine issues as well. So vitamin D status, insulin resistance, those sorts of things keep popping up time and time again. Now, all of those factors overlap. They're not distinct factors by any stretch to the imagination. They're all kind of playing off each other. Look at our diet and just sort of single that out as one factor. And you look at some of the papers that are out there, the general population is having 70% of their diet, which is fueling this low grade information. So you can kind of see potentially where there's a big driver just in that alone. When we look at the diversity of body types across the population, we have historically tended to associate sarcopenia with being down sort of more this end of the population. So these are the small frames, the frail frames, the low muscle mass frames. And indeed, that's kind of fits with our general idea. So these are people with low to normal BMI, low muscle mass and as a result low bone mass. Interestingly, these people also metabolically unhealthy as well. So whilst they aren't overtly obese, they tend to take on many of the same characteristics that we will often see in those who have poor metabolic health. And you can sort of see some of those factors line up there. Interestingly, and this is what has changed a little bit since I did my my training course of very many years ago. We used to think of the obese is actually having very good muscle mass. We used to think of the obese is having very good bone mass. When you are carrying that amount of weight around, we thought that your muscles have to compensate, your muscles have to get bigger and stronger, your bone density has to go up in order to cope with that muscle mass. But it seems that that is not the case. And there's some very early research out there on sarcopenic obesity. So these are people who have a high body mass index, but they still have low muscle mass and low bone, low bone density and have very many of the same factors going on that we see with the sarcopenic. One group of authors described this as a confluence of two epidemics. So we're kind of seeing a very big overlap between the between the extremes. Indeed, we can't even look at an individual and try and assess whether or not they've got some of these factors going on because the the size, the shape, the body mass of a person really doesn't give us a good clear indication as to whether or not someone has a good level of muscle mass, a good level of bone mass. Even on the adiposity front, you cannot look at someone and make a this binary call that they are either overtly obese or they're not obese and therefore healthy. So some of the some of the information that's out there around visceral adiposity, even at very, very low rates of visceral adiposity, you're seeing sort of deterioration of metabolic health in people who look at an otherwise normal body mass. And even in obese individuals, you're seeing some of these reports that obese individuals may present with depleted muscle mass and strength similar to emaciated patients, which is it's a it's a little bit different from where things were or certainly our understanding was a few years ago. At a public health level, we have very, very focused on cardiovascular disease. That's sort of our number one target. Overall, those are probably likes of diabetes is catching up. Now, we've got all these sort of factors that are driving into cardiovascular disease and we're sort of debating the relevance of these factors and how we treat some of these factors individually. And I guess we have recognized that there is an aspect of muscle health. There is this aspect around sarcopenia. But we see them as two kind of distinct and very sort of clear health aspects that we're trying to tackle. There's no sort of real line between those. But again, when you go into the research, it gets very interesting. That line is quite clear. When you look at these sorts of things that some of the factors that we're looking at down, down through this side are actually being initiated over here. That maybe it's something to do with our muscle function out the metabolic function of our muscle mass, which is playing a direct role in initiating this cascade down through this side. So we need to, we need to build that bridge between the two. And indeed, and this is some of the diagrams that have stolen out of the literature, when we look at the triad between our muscle mass, our bone density and our adipose tissue is sort of three key factors that we're looking at. It seems to be based on the literature that I've gone through. It seems to be initiating over this side, that there are changes within our muscle mass as a result of some of those environmental factors. And it's starting to drive this sort of loop up through here. So the changes in our muscle mass are leading to changes in our adipose tissue, leading to changes in our bone mineral density. And you can kind of see where those arrows go. It's a sort of a nice neat little circle that's just going to keep going around and around. One of the things that come through pretty clear when you look at muscle mass from an endocrine standpoint, when you look at the compounds being released out of muscles and focusing on specific myokines is that when we are trying to address some of the issues that we are concerned about, the type 2 diabetes, the cardiovascular disease, the cancer. And actual fact, the myokines being released from our muscle mass deal directly with those issues. But some of those myokines are tackling the issues that we're trying to tackle sort of head on through muscle contraction. Similarly with some of the adipokines coming out of these visceral adipocytes, is that the myokines, the muscle that are released from muscle contraction are blunting those adipocytes, the effect of those adipocytes overall. So again, as much as we're kind of focused on, you know, this sort of stuff up here, we're focused very, very heavily on our fat mass, we perhaps need to shift the focus back over here due to what we're starting to understand around these myokines and the effect that they're having. I'm going to return to this point here. Whilst we are sort of developing this understanding of those myokines and the effect that they can have on our metabolic health and some of the other disease markers that we're concerned with, we still have no dietary recommendations that elevate muscle mass and muscle strength up to a functional relevant end point, which is a bit of a travesty. And indeed, when we look at the general public health means that we have out there, particularly with regard to cardiovascular disease, we're telling people to prevent cardiovascular disease later on in their life, so largely past of age about 65, by reducing their saturated fat intake now. Now, the subtext to that is, is that, hey, if that ends up sort of making you a little bit scrawny or weakening your body, we'll deal with that later. It's not really relevant at this point in time. Your functional health, your physical ability right here, right now, is not a relevant end point to the minds of those of dealing with some of these public health messages. And I think that's that's a wrong approach. Indeed, when we look at I guess our commonly held public health messages that we have out there, we're telling people to eat grains and vegetable oils. Well, we've got good information to suggest that they are part of an inflammatory diet.  And we're telling people to stay out of the sun, having an impact on vitamin D. And in the meantime, this is kind of the type of exercise that we're telling people to do. I will, if you need to build up your physical fitness, go and engage in some sort of endurance style training. First and foremost, we still have an elevated strength training up to where it probably needs needs to be. When we just focus on the protein side of it, because of the fear that has been generated around saturated fat intake, it has put a large portion of the population off of eating meat, any type of meat because of the association between animal proteins and the inherent amounts of saturated fat contained within those animal proteins. So whilst probably at a population level just tracking straight protein, it seems that proteins probably fairly kind of static. I think that we've actually probably swapped a lot of meat proteins out and put a lot of non-meat proteins back into replace it. So that the protein quality is probably probably fallen. There is an argument to suggest that, hey, proteins, protein, it doesn't really matter where it comes from once it's in your body, but again, if we dive into the literature, it doesn't particularly support that. And we can see distinct differences in muscle mass, muscle quality, muscle strength in women who are consuming animal protein all the way through there. When we focus on our obese populations, we can see that muscle strength is a bigger factor as far as their overall mortality is concerned rather than the actual amount of fat mass that they are carrying. So again, if we kind of add all those things up, if protein improves their strength and their muscle quality and it's our muscle strength and quality that is determining our overall mortality, we need to kind of connect those dots and elevate that as far as the public health messages go. So when you take the research and totality, the elephant in the room amongst all of this is that if we are going to elevate our muscle function, our muscle quality up to where it needs to be, we have to change the dietary guidelines. That's all there is to it. The current dietary guidelines do not support what is sitting in the research as far as that muscle strength and function goes. It has to be reconsidered. So I'm going to leave you with a hope that we can move away from this very sort of binary thinking around whether we are fat, whether we are not fat and whether that determines our health and I hope that we can convince people to start looking at the population and ask the question, is this person strong or is this person not strong? Because I think that's probably the more relevant question overall. And if we are going to be worried or concerned about a fat mass, we need to bear in mind that the skeletal muscle was the organ that counteracts body fat. So I will leave it there. Thank you. Any questions? Hi, Jamie. Is it on testing? Can you hear it? Oh, there it goes. So thanks for coming all the way from New Zealand to share this stuff. So I'm I'm coming at this from the approach of shoes are not paleo and I was noticing one of the things you talked about, the big contributor to sarcopenia and dynapenia is nervous system impairment. And so one of the third greatest sensory concentration area in the body aside from the face and hands is the feet. And I was so which was also the most directly relevant to all types of locomotor activity. So I was wondering if especially in New Zealand I know there are more populations of people who don't wear shoes. I wonder if there's any any attempt to look at the difference in muscle development among populations that wear shoes and that don't. Given the temperature back home at the moment there are plenty of people wearing shoes. So there isn't. There's not that level of research back home. And I think New Zealand don't over romanticize New Zealand. New Zealand has pretty much the same sort of issues that America faces overall. We have populations who are wearing big chunky shoes high heels all day. And I think gone in the days where the average Kiwi kid spent their entire summer running around and be a feat. So there's not a lot of research taking place back home in that field. And people just dance hanging out and be a feat anywhere near like they used to. So. But I definitely agree that it's a relevant aspect. That sort of sensory load that ability to keep adjusting to the terrain underneath you is actually going to look after some of the neural aspects that I've kind of briefly touched on there. So. Thanks. Thank you. Could you say a little bit more about the remodeling of fast switch, slow switch fibers you implied. I think that that we are moving toward more slow twitch as fast which gets replaced. But then you also said that remodeled slow twitch fasters slow twitch fibers do not function as well. So what I'm wondering is to what extent is that process of replacing fast twitch with slow twitch to what extent is that process reversible? Or what do we know about that? Unfortunately. And that was one of the there was a key one of the key things I was looking for in the research because they were very sort of clear that there is in some cases this compensation that will take place when you lose fast twitch input into the fibers is that that slow twitch branch can move over and try and kind of maintain or save that that muscle mass. There was nothing in there to say that that is reversible. Now I would I'll stick my neck out and suggest that it probably is to a degree that the muscle fibers themselves are generally sort of fairly plastic. They're not sort of they're not heavily distinct in one type or the other. So you can take a a slow twitch fiber and strengthen it up and speed it up sort of to a point that it can take on some of the characteristics of faster fibers. It won't still be that very high speed high high velocity high power fiber overall but it can kind of come up to a level which may give people enough compensation in their daily life. There was nothing that I saw unfortunately that suggested that once you have lost that fast twitch neuron input into that fiber that you can then regrow it back in.  That was my question exactly. If we do lose the innovation to fast twitch fibers or any studies that say that that innovation can be replaced not necessarily remodeling but actually you know re-eneration of a lost. I haven't seen anything. So that's yeah. So you quoted an interesting study with the vegetarians and omnivores of the same protein intake and said their muscle mass was lower. But I was wondering if you think that could be more due to things like creatine and mega threes and other things that vegetarians tend to be deficient in. Absolutely and I sort of briefly touched on that at the start we're sort of discussing protein intake overall. So we can look at protein intake particularly animal protein intake and we shouldn't get caught up in the fact that it is just the protein aspect of those foods that we're eating that are having an effect on our muscle quality. And it may be more the micronutrient status or you know part and parcel of that. So things like your creatines some of the minerals that are sitting in there that help maintain a muscle mass. So yeah there will be that difference there I think. First thank you. Great presentation. Thank you. Very engaging. Have you come across what the best way to refuel the muscles after explosive fast-twitch usage where you deplete glycogen? What that might be? Well that's where your carbohydrate intake's going to come in and you know those fast-twitch explosive fibers are using that as their predominant fuel. You're not going to get very high levels of power out of those muscle fibers using anything else. So then you're applying you know the ancestral type diet and look at those sort of carbohydrate sources so our starches, our fruits those sorts of things. So it's not going to take anywhere near the amount that we probably traditionally have tried to pump back into endurance athletes. There's a very kind of you know there's a very good kind of level of recycling of some of those fuels within those sort of fast-twitch high output muscle fibers but you know just a good level of starch in the background you know cellular starches that'll be the way to go. Okay in a particular window particular type of starches and that sort of that sort of immediate post-exercise window I'm a little bit kind of mixed on the pre-fuelling side of things I don't think we necessarily need to pre-fuel our muscles providing our background diets alright but certainly if you are looking at repeating your explosive efforts within a short window you'll probably want to refuel them straight away but then you take the likes of James Steele's talk where he's sort of suggesting that the intensity is really key and what you don't need to do kind of lots of high frequency high intensity efforts well if you're only doing very infrequent high intensity efforts and you've got sort of you know three, four days in between those bouts that's plenty of time to reload so maybe that post-workout window becomes less critical overall and the time is very short so it's possible to maintain muscle mass as we grow older it may not be possible to re-intervate motor neurons but for athletes what is the best way do you think to prevent degradation fast-twitch motor neurons and kind of maintain rate firing move with high velocity and under high load so that's one of the things that I get a little bit concerned about as far as the maintenance of these sorts of things is that we still have a predisposition towards doing endurance type exercise now when I say endurance type exercise that's cycling, running, swimming all those sorts of things but as soon as you start getting into more you know the prolonged metabolic type workouts and the 20-minute plus workouts that is in effect endurance exercise still once you are measuring yourself past 30 seconds I guess in terms of your muscle contractility you are starting to get into the realm of of endurance exercise so I think as far as maintaining those high-output fast-twitch fibers it is the very short burst high-velocity high-power loads that we're looking at and again to go back to Keith Norris's talk yesterday where he touched on eccentric loading for those who are in microgravity environments we need the same thing we need to put ourselves under eccentric loads well good luck putting yourself under an eccentric load and combining endurance exercise at the same time because you will not walk for weeks if you do that it's just an impossibility you'll do a hell of a lot of damage to your muscle mass so it is those very short burst high-intensity activities that we need to maintain those fast-twitch fibers so it appears that the fast-twitch definitely goes to slow-twitch over time but you can keep your muscle mass with slow-twitch what is the disadvantage of having a lot more slow-twitch if you're not performing athletically like into old age what do you lose with only slow-twitch as opposed to both good good question so if let's say you're walking you're walking down the footpath and you catch sorry sidewalk you catch a lip on the concrete and you start to stumble it is your fast-twitch fibers that grab you hold your balance and pull you back because it is happening at such speed and it's your body weight is starting to lose its balance and starting to gain momentum your fast-twitch fibers may not be fast enough and strong enough to grab your mass to pull it back and rebalance it so if you are if you've lost a lot of your fast-twitch fibers and you are basically a big bundle of slow-twitch slow-twitch muscle it increases the risk that if you do lose balance if you do go into a fall you are not going to pull yourself back and you are going to land on your hip and you're going to break your hip and you are in trouble there seems to be kind of this I guess feeling amongst the general population that oh if you break your hip you're in hospital for a little bit and there's a little bit of rehabilitation that goes with it well if you break your hip I think it's something like a third of the people survive that one third of them will be dead within a very short period of time and the remaining third will be basically your invalids for the rest of their remaining life so it becomes very very important as we age that we maintain that function to protect ourselves we're going to suffer illness we're going to suffer you know viral loads all those sorts of things and it seems that the more muscle mass we have and in particular that fast-twitch muscle mass because of the the downstream myokines that come out of come from that muscle mass that is what's protecting us when we do go through those periods of illness great then follow-up question are there any tools available to the consumer to be able to check their their type of muscle fiber they have in different parts of their body not that you'll be able to use yourself it's basically muscle biopsy to do that it's biopsy big fat needles which is painful right so is there a way to train fastest muscle fibers without high intensity exercises without high intensity especially for people who have physical disabilities again it's sort of more I guess it's going to depend on how you frame high intensity exercise so if you're looking at you know like a crossfit type model is that what we need to get everyone to do do we need to push them through to that type of thing no but if you can progressively increase someone's load progressively add in more and more eccentric type exercises change their speed of movement so we're talking about their speed of movement loads that are suitable for them not what would apply to athletes and you know do that in a very progressive type manner over a long period of time it's not a it's not a short turnaround by any stretch of the imagination get all those other factors right all those other environmental factors so it's not just the exercise side of it it's the sunlight exposure it's maintaining low levels of stress overall good diet all of those factors come into play with your muscle mass muscle quality then you will get an appreciable increase in people's fast stretch muscle fibers so I was going to ask what are some example of eccentric exercises doing a doing a squat you know as you're lowering yourself down working against gravity trying to resist that load of gravity that's eccentric eccentric loading so where the the muscles are basically under load but kind of controlling that lengthening process while they're under load Hi there would there be a particular danger to young people involved in excessive endurance training given that window of development of all their you know their nervous system in that yeah I think so I've had a little bit of a little bit of time working with elite track cyclists and it gets very interesting when you see people who are bought into that sport having grown up as kids where they just kind of ran around and maybe they own the BMX and if anyone knows anything about BMX riding it's all kind of stop start sprint type stuff when you bring them into that bring them into the the sort of sport of track cycling later on you can see the power and and and velocity that they have now the contrast to that is as we've kind of come into this world of endurance type athletics is that I've seen far too many you know seven eight nine year old 10 year old children who have been given mini me road bike and a Lance Armstrong kit by their father and they get taken out for you know 50 60 70 kilometer bike rides day in day out and then you see them come into a sport which requires more high velocity high power output from them they are literally tortoises out there they are they've they're very very slow they've got they've got one speed one speed only so almost it seems that by engaging young children in endurance type endeavors too early is that you train their fast-twitch fibers out of them they seem to be being exposed to this chronic cardio load and again look at the food environment that they're in the school environment the the sunlight exposure environment they have all of the factors there for a deterioration of their fast-twitch muscle quality right from the get go and you can kind of see it as they start to come into those athletic endeavors later on that might require a bit of power out of them and just looking on the other side of the coin there are there particular dangers if you want to do load bearing exercises with young people not in an acute sense but all the same rules apply is that you can over train anyone using any any variable whatsoever so if the if the loading is too high if the frequency is too high if the intensity is too high for that particular person you can overdo them so you know the same same rules apply but again you kind of look at some of the information that's already been presented this morning the intensity is the key rather than the frequency so you can chuck kids into high intensity high load exercise but just give them plenty of time to recover and make sure they're doing their sleep and their nutrition and everything else well let's give Jamie a big hand thank you


Hello and let's talk about the Olympics. The Tokyo Olympics, one of the biggest sporting events in the world, was scheduled to begin on July 24th this year. In ordinary times, we would have been following the action, the inspiring performances and the tragic misses by athletes. But these are no normal times. The pandemic has pushed the event by a year and it's now scheduled to begin on July 23rd, 2021. But in what form will it be held? Remains a big question. Will we have crossed the worst phase of the pandemic by then? Will a vaccine have arrived to give us hope? Many questions remain both for the International Olympic Committee, which organizes the event, the host team in Tokyo and the athletes around the world. We'll be looking into some of these issues, but first here are the details. The 32nd Olympics was scheduled to be held from 24th July, as we mentioned, to 9th August 2020. It will now be held from July 23rd to August 8th, 2021. This is the second time Tokyo will be hosting the Olympics after 1964. The 2020 summer Paralympics for disabled athletes will also be held in Tokyo from August 24th to September 5th next year. The Olympics is expected to have 339 events in 33 different sports and representatives from anywhere between 150 to 200 countries are likely to participate. Over 11,000 athletes are likely to take part. A major controversy has been over the participation of Russia, which is banned by the World Anti-Toping Agency for four years for allegedly tampering with data provided to the global body. Russian athletes may have to take part under some other banner, although Russia has appealed the decision. The economic impact of the postponement is very difficult to calculate. The official budget is 1.35 trillion yen, which is $12.6 billion. Although reports say that a much larger amount of money has already been spent on the whole process from the bid onwards. The estimates of the global economy of the country could suffer a $6 billion hit this year, although much of this may be recovered if that is held next year. Like we said, the key question of course is under what conditions this event will be held? Will there be crowds? Will there be international spectators? There are indeed many unknowns. We talk to news clicks, Leslie Xavier on this issue. Thank you, Leslie, for joining us. So the Olympic Games in a normal world would have started by now. The schedule date was July 24th this year. And of course, as we know, nothing is normal right now. And so the proposal, as far as I understand, is that it will be held next year, July 23rd. And so could you talk a bit about what has been happening in the Olympic circles, so to speak, regarding the postponement itself? What's the kind of thinking that's going on? And what is the planning going on for the proposed event next year? So the new dates, the games start exactly a day, exactly a year away from now. So I mean, it's on July 23rd, 2021. So last week on the 23rd, they had a small location. I mean, small, very subdued, because nobody was in the mood to celebrate or commemorate one year to go once again, because last year the same thing happened. And the circumstances are also pretty grim in that sense, because the world is still fighting. And I mean, if not exactly a losing cause, but still it's not under control the virus situation. So the stakeholders of the Olympic Games, IOC, the Japanese government, the organizing committee in Tokyo, they are all, I mean, pretty realistic about the scenarios. And in fact, Yoshihiro Mori, the organizing committee, president, he was quoted as saying by the Japanese official broadcaster NHK in one of the programs that it's not just about whether if and when and what Olympic Games, it's about humans winning a battle against this virus. So I mean, once that happens, then everything else will fall in place. So he was hinting at vaccine and being key to the fortunes of the Olympic Games as well. Having said that, the organizers are again looking beyond into a scenario where vaccine, I mean, even if it's not in place, how can they conduct the Games? Because IOC and generally it is understood that if the games are not held in the given dates next year, then it would be cancelled altogether because it's logistically calendar-wise everything impossible to organize it in any other dates. So and also the financial implications are also, I mean, the sponsors and all the infrastructure that have been put into organizing the event by the Japanese government. Everything is at stake here. So they are thinking of organizing it with the protocols in place, which ensures safety of the players, the officials. So I mean, in a normal Games, if it was held this year, I mean, this year, if then around 11,000 athletes, we would have seen can mean in Tokyo a support cast of around 40,000 officials plus, I mean, almost the same amount of volunteers and media persons. So it's so maybe a smaller kind of a setup. They are mulling in case vaccine is not out by then, where athletes would be allowed, they would ensure a green channel where athletes can be flown in and flown out. In fact, there are many countries who are thinking of bringing the athletes just for the event and taking them out just like that. Because this quarantine system won't work because logistically it would be a nightmare. 14 days coming in quarantine. It's not like how the West Indies travel to England and they add the luxury because it's just two teams and 15 of 15 players involved. This is huge. So testing would be done and players would be thrown in competitions will happen. Maybe spectators may not be allowed to travel foreign spectators, but Japanese spectators might be allowed in because IOC again is very clear that they wouldn't hold the games without spectators. But again foreign spectators bringing in is again a point of contention, a point of doubt. And as far as within the stadium, athletes be able to be concerned. Of course, a lot of action has started to create football. So there are certain protocols that have been established which would be, which the athletes would be expected to follow within the stadium, including celebrations like shouting, things like that, including that, including behavior in the games village where physical distancing would be implemented. So things like that are being mulled as plan B. But of course the weight is on for the vaccine to come out. So to just go a bit more into this, the Olympics as we understand is not only event for two weeks, it's also something and you've written about this. It's also something that has a long-term impact on athletes' careers and development itself and is actually a cyclical process in that sense because it's not just about the competition. So can you talk a bit about how that aspect might be impacted if, for instance, it doesn't happen? So one direct implication is the financial implication. And when we talk about financial implication, the first thing and the foremost thing that everyone talks about is the losses suffered by the organizers, by the sponsors and all that. But the revenue generated from the Olympic Games, the cut goes to the International Olympic Committee. And so IOC, what it uses, I mean it uses it for its own functioning. And at the same time, it has a lot of developmental programs across the world. And especially countries, the poorer countries benefit from it a lot. The athletes get a share of the money for sporting activities. And also that falls into the Olympic cycle as such because this is a junior grassroots development program. So it's a long-term investment for IOC in that sense or for the sporting movement in that sense because in the long run these athletes are expected to come up and increase the reach and the stature of the Olympic movement as such. So that entire cyclic process which has been, which is a four year cycle, will get disrupted if the games, the chain of games are broken. And at the same time, it's also evident that whenever the Olympic Games have been broken, the larger implication is that the world has not been in a great shape when this has happened. So the two times it has been cancelled happens to be during the World War. And of course, those days, the world being not as small as it is now. The cascading implications of it was, and Olympic movement was also at a pretty nascent stage. So the cascading implication of it on a global scale was pretty minimal that way because for instance, if you look at the 40 and 44 games being cancelled, India being a, I mean, having not gained independence at that point and sport definitely not exactly being a priority at that moment. Sport development programs and all that were not in place, things like that. And also not connected with the IOC in any man. IOC never had stakes in all this country development programs. So impact remained with the games itself and the organizing city, but now it's a different state altogether. The effect is not just confined to Tokyo, the effect would be global. And that would last a few games cycle, if not more, as far as the development, the stunting of the development is concerned. And finally, just a quick look on what's happening to some of the significant important Indian athletes who are supposed to participate, where have they reached with regards to their preparation, their careers and how is this whole process actually, it has a derail, their training and stuff like that. So it's a derailment as has happened with time. Many of the athletes were in camp, continue being in camps, but then things have started getting to them, psychologically, physically also, because training is not exactly in the intensity that is supposed to be. And psychologically, in the sense they are away from families and some, I mean, the related pressures that come with it, some of the family being family members, Okin being in places where pandemic is on the rise, they are tensed about all those things. And how long can I, I mean, it's like solitary confinement in a way also, right? How long can an athlete remain in a camp kind of a facility with no external contact as such? So there have been a few athletes who have asked permission to leave, go home. Many have left home even without permissions. Many are mulling, things like that. And we at Newsclick, we broke a story about Bajrang Punea who was a medal meaning prospect for Tokyo, world number two wrestler. And so his coach is a Georgian and he had flown back to Georgia in March. Now he's coming back on July 30, he will land in Delhi, he has made some arrangement with the Georgian government to come back a special case because Bajrang Punea as far as his training is concerned is struggling and wrestling being the high intensity sport that is and also the reality that in the coming months there won't be much competition for him or any of the elite wrestlers in the country. And by elite wrestlers we know for sure that some of them are medal, I mean, sure shot bets for medals, right, at the game. So him coming back, I mean, that is one positive, possibly for Bajrang because then at least some sort of control and because Bajrang has risen to world number one stature and one world championship medal, some of the discourse, the trust between them, the relationship between them is huge. So that would make a difference. So individually, there are certain movements that are happening towards training and all that. But at the same time, I came to know that wrestling or any sport for that matter, the variations are very, very ununderstandably very reserved about opening up and training full-fledged and also very reserved about taking these athletes abroad to train. For instance, there is this suggestion by Bajrang's coach again that Georgia is in a better place according to him to train because the country is in the green as far as COVID cases are concerned compared to India. And he can ensure safety, he said, but then permissions are not there. And in some ways that is right too because probably the government feels or the sports ministry feels that it would be better off if they have direct control over the athletes' circumstances, being in a camp here or being in some private facility where safety and all other protocols can be directly monitored by the sports ministry or the sports authority of India. So that is one case. And there is another, I mean, sort of like a landmark now that we have very few sporting landmarks. And India actually competed for the first time since since since lockdown. Shravaninanda, who is from Orissa, she is a 100-meter runner, Olympian, and she shifted to Jamaica to train at the start of this year. From January, she has been dazed in Kingston. And so she competed in a local race there and becoming the first Indian athlete to compete for the COVID outbreak. She finished third in her heats for the record that way. And when I say local competition in Jamaica, it's by no means a small competition because in that field, there was the reigning Olympic champion running the race too. So a good experience for Shravaninanda out. And then she was quoted in the agencies about her training and how she's lucky. I mean, it's a luck and chance kind of a scene because Jamaica is a better off country that way, as far as COVID infections are concerned. And it's also a better off country for any athlete to train because we are talking about training and competing and brushing your shoulders with world-level athletes, world champions all over the place. So that is one small significant positive we'll look at sporting. But at the same time, at the administrative level, a lot of muck has been thrown around in India because Indian Olympic Association is in a big turmoil. The president of the Iowa as well as the secretary general, they are divided into camps and they are fighting each other, throwing allegations and showing proof of misdemeanors and all that. So that is, I mean, at this out of crisis, I mean, our administrators being like such, it's unfortunate because this is the hour that they should come together and plan so that our guys, I mean, our medal-of-fals as well as the normal athletes or even at the grassroots, whoever the kids who are coming up and all that they should, they need all the support, all the guidance, all the structural, the way, the structure for a way forward that should be in place and it can only be planned by systematically by the people who are in the chair, occupying the chairs now, but they are busy fighting each other. So that's, that's on the administrative front. So this is one or less a quick update on what is happening on the India scene. Thank you Leslie, so much for talking to us. Newsclick Sports Desk is releasing a series of features around the Olympics. To read them, do visit newsclick.in slash sports. Our next story is on the COVID-19 impact in South Africa. The countries among the worst affected by the pandemic and as the fifth highest number of cases and of yesterday had the fourth highest number of new cases. To know more about this, we talked to Dr. Lydia Kaincross of the People's Health Movement last week. Here is a section of the interview. Could you talk a bit maybe about what's the situation on the ground right now because we do know that the government has been pushing for reopening and interestingly, South Africa was one of the countries which did have a very strong lockdown. So how is it that despite that, the number of cases continues? Yeah, I think South Africa, you know, we started off with the, with the approach to the pandemic of a very strict and very hard lockdown, one of the hardest in the world for about five weeks. And during that time, there was a quite slow transmission of the virus. We think that because it was mainly sort of initially a middle-class inoculation into the society, and we have a very class-segregated society, which is the legacy of apartheid and of capitalism. And so for some time, the lockdown worked. But the lockdown came at tremendous cost, tremendous cost to primarily the poor, the poor Black majority in South Africa. And it revealed the tremendous food insecurity within the country and income insecurity. And the state was not able to rapidly move to fill those gaps. So there was a pressure to lift lockdown both from a conservative sort of a capital economy lobby, which wanted to get profit going and get factories running. But there was also a pressure from the ground from people who were starving, who actually were unable to fulfill their normal livelihoods, which was the microeconomy in the townships, the informal economy, which had been decimated by the lockdown. And of course, what we had needed at that stage was a very strong social support package to come in rapidly, to support income security, to support food security, to bring to communities water and food and sanitation and money to allow them to survive the lockdown. But we were unable to make that shift. And so there was this pressure and a fairly uncoordinated opening of the economy. Sort of the strongest lobby pushing would get their sector open. So one of the first areas to open was mining, which makes no sense in terms of a health and epidemiology point of view. And then opening of churches and opening of big sectors of the economy that were not necessarily what we would consider to be essentials for life, which is a more kind of social perspective on what do we need to survive and what can we keep closed in order to keep us safe. The other problem was that we didn't utilize the lockdown as we should have. So the lockdown time was really an opportunity to get two things going. The one is a mass popular education campaign to empower communities to understand the virus, to begin to know how when lockdown lifted, how to move safely in the presence of the virus. And that mass campaign has still not happened. And there are pockets of education happening by NGOs, social movements, health ourselves, but not nearly enough. And the other thing that needed to happen in that time was mass testing, tracing, and quarantine. And our testing capacity really failed us at this time. And because we were not able to escape the logic of the capitalist system and bring together our public and private testing capacity, we still had a two system binary with private sector capacity, with short turnaround times and a few hours to one day or so. And the public sector capacity was just totally overstretched by the numbers. So we got our community health workers out there, they screened and they sent for testing. And within a few weeks, we overwhelmed our testing capacity. So when we started to open up the economy, we didn't have the testing capacity that we needed to be able to test and to separate out those that were sick and take care of them in that way. So here we are now we have we're number five in the world. Our peak is coming later in other countries, but it's coming. And, you know, the numbers are always contested and the deaths are contested as well. But we are seeing this in our hospitals. So we are seeing the epidemic in for a long time our hospitals were quiet from a COVID point of view. But certainly started in the Western Cape province and now is moved to our most densely populated province in Houting. And the hospitals are seeing the influx of patients with with COVID symptoms sort of way. So it's here. You can watch the full interview at NewsClick's YouTube channel. That's all we have time for today. We'll be back tomorrow with major news developments from the country. Until then keep watching NewsClick.


What's going on, everyone? Sam here with late in sports cards, ripping 22, Padini, Obsidian in prism football, hobby, six box mixer, number 15, random team style. There's a look again at your random results. As always, you can find these on the website under the results tab, as well as the link in chat. Good luck. Dropping link to Star Wars, breaking after 10 bucks Tuesday. Six to go on that one, everybody. Start with Obsidian, gets four boxes of Obsidian, right? Yeah. Nice. And then two prism. We'll start with Obsidian, and we'll do our prism. Orange, David Bell for the Browns, two at 75, and Supernova, Derek Henry, two at 99, Titans. I'm breaking tomorrow, Steve, tomorrow night. That is Carson Strong, rookie. Got nice, two 100. Damn, Marina. On the Eclipse Jersey for the Dolphins. Got 64 of 199, Brian Cook. Rookie Otto for the Chiefs. Got 52 of 75, Matt Corral. Nice one there on the orange for the Panthers. Orange Otto. And 163 out of 175, George Pickens. Rookie Jersey Otto for the Steelers. Nice one there. Congrats, Pittsburgh. Box two of Obsidian. Nice. Just six to go on Star Wars. First break. A lot of really good hits in there. We've done well, man. We pulled the 101 Adams Serkis, which is pretty sweet. Two go, breaking soon. Monta Adams, Green to 50. Orange, AJ to relative 75 for the Falcons. Base of Jamar Chase, Chase Base. 78 to 100, Trey McBride. Rookie Eruption Jersey for the Carbons. Got 15 of 50. John Mechie, three-color patch. Nice one there. Texans. Grat each town. John Mechie. 168 out of 199. Pierre Strong, Jr. Rookie Otto going to the Patriots. And 41 of 99. Traylon Berks. Rookie Jersey Otto for the Titans. Congrats on that. There you go, Tennessee. Next up, Obsidian again. Trey McBride. Purple to 100. Volcanix, Kyler Murray. 84 of 99. Rookie Derrick Stingley, Jr. Texans. Got 26 of 50. Tee Higgins, two-colored patch going to the Bengals on the Atomic Material. Got to 125. Alec Pierce. Nice one there. Colts, 400 points. Rends all at the end. And to 175. John Mechie, two-color duel. Rookie Jersey Otto. Pretty much. Pretty much, I would say. Exo. We've got the Contra coming up. That's going to be Cadarius, Tony, Orange. Contra, Russell Wilson. There we go, Broncos. Again, not numbered. Super short print. Congrats, Denver. Nice one there. Chris M. Got Trent McDuffie. Rookie. Cool one here. 74 out of 100. Jason Taylor going out to the Dolphins on the Eclipse Material. Got the Taylor and the Tide Chandler. Two-199. Nice. The 199. Desmond Ritter going to the Falcons. Nice one there. Really cool. 200. George Kittle cutting edge Jersey. Very nice. Congrats, Niners. All right. Two prism now. 22 prism. Stuff's been fun. It always is, man. Pull some heat out of these as well. Silver is Danny Gray Rookie. Orange, Jonathan Allen. Two-249. Ryan Robinson Jr. And George Carlaftis. I'll broadcast your cable system. Yeah, I got you. Okay. I see. I see now. Silver, John Holland. There's an Eli Manning Hyper to 175 for the Giants. Lanzai Wyatt and Cade York. May have an auto in here. Silver, Jalen Hertz. We've got Zach Hertz. Nice one there. Hertz and Hertz. Aha, look at that. Congrats, Cardinals. Very cool. Jalen Naylor or John Mechie as well. Silver, Lamar, throwback. Purple Ace, the Kobe Durant. Two-225. Danny Gray and Jalani Woods. Prism Break, Drake London. Blue Wave, Derwin James Jr. to 199. Quay Walker and Alec Pierce. Navy Camo coming up, or Forest Camo coming up. That is Two Attack of I Loa Brilliance. We've got a Donovan People's Jones. Nice DBJ. 12-15. One-off Jersey number for the Browns. Brees Hall Rookie. Skymore. Rookie as well. Gold. Come on, baby. Give us something big. Give us something big. Let's see. Let's see. That is Vikings. JJ. Rookie. No, no. Ty Chandler. Okay. Congrats, Vikings. 10 of 10. Heck yeah. Nice gold Rookie coming your way. There you go. Minnesota. Andrew Booth and Snoop Connor. It's like our second auto coming out of here. Silver, Jordan Poyer. We've got a nice Sam Howell. Going to the Commanders. Allen Kay. Congrats on that. Base Sam Howell Rookie Auto. Kyrie Elam and David Ajabo tweeting and dropping the link. Fine. He's going to drop you guys a link again to Star Wars. Got Jalen Waddle, Prism Break That is Orange. Jonathan Allen is 249. Malik Willis Rookie and Jeremy Rucker. Silver. Patrick Mahomes. Brilliant. Blue Ice. JJ Watt to 99. Cardinals. Jerome Ford and McCarral. Six to go, guys. Random hit style. Everybody walks away with a hit. Everybody walks away with a hit. Orange Wave. Nashi Harris to 60. James Cook. Ola. What are you doing up? What a bed. Got this guy to bed, man. Got this guy home. Blue Ice, Joe Burrow to 99. Most likely not unfortunately, Brett. There are a bunch in queue already and we got to fill up a couple, two more breaks still. Vilas Jones to 249. Kate Aten and Tyrion Davis Price. Like there's a pretty good amount of orders in queue I would say and then like I said with me, we're going to finish behind. So filling up breaks and such. Yeah, no problem, Brett. You get a hit. Everybody gets a hit. There's Bailey Zappy. That is Arnold Kite to 149 for the Falcons. Are you sure about that, Jake? Damian Pierce and Daniel Bellinger. It is kind of a must watch TV. Sam and Donnie late night. Oh yeah. Start losing reality. Most likely not, Jonathan. Silver Kirk Cousins. Hyper Kill of Trav to 175. Most likely not. We are going to finish a bit behind tonight. We will be doing Personals tomorrow though. We'll be doing Personals tomorrow night. We'll have Kyle over on drip ripping some Personals for y'all. Dijetta Dike to 249. For the Seahawks. Brian Robinson Jr. George Carlaftis. There's always a point at like every every shift where I just shut down for a while and right now that's it. Silver Kyle Phillips. Blue Ikes Chris Godwin to 99. Jake Shirt Jersey right there. Danny Gray. Jelani Woods. I'm going to take the points out now. It's going to be 900. That ain't bad. Ren to all at the end. Silver Jarvis Landry. Ray Lewis. Blue Wave to 199. For the Ravens. Sam Williams. Kenneth Walker. Chaco second. There. Silver Lamar. Throwback. Two of those in two boxes. Purple Ikes Rashad White to 225. Rookie for the Bucks. Breeze Hall. Kyra Elam. This TM. Right about this TM. Desmond Ritter. New recruits. Purple John L. White to 125. The Broncos. Skymore. David DiGiabbo. It's Tamarito to 225. Really does dude. Johnson. Vilas Jones. There's Blue Wave. Taekwon Thornton to 199. Patriots rookie. Josh Pascal. Kobe Durant. Jeremy Guthrie. Oh god that's bad then bro. That is bad Jake. Jeremy Guthrie's 2017 season. Jeremy Chin. Treson Evner is going to be your second auto. Rookie at Silver Auto for the Bears. I guess Jeremy was pretty bad. He stunk that one here dude. He was not good. Not good. Jerome Ford. Matt Corral. Drop you guys a link again to Star Wars. Six series. Random hit style. Six left. Six to go. Emergent Skymore. Silver. Orange Quitty Pay to 249 for the Colts. Bailey Zappi Rookie. Isaiah Legger. Silver Hype. Javante. Hyper is Mike Evans for the Bucks. 2175. K. Dotten. And tiering Davis Price. Still quick points random really quick guys. So that'll do it for Brick. We've got 900 and 400. Top team in the random will get 900. Team in second will get 400. I missed Trivia yesterday. Came in with Trivia. Oh yeah. Oh god. All right guys again. Top team will get 900. Team in second will get 400 after seven dice rolls. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Chargers getting seven. Chargers getting 900. Geez. And Seahawks getting 400. Yeah that was the point last yesterday when I shut down because I had nothing to contribute. We've got George Kittle, Jason Taylor, Alec Pierce, T. Higgins, John Matchy, Trey McBride, Dan Marina, Treson Abner, Zach Hertz, Desmond Ritter, Ty Chandler, John Matchy, Traylon Burks, Pierre Strong Jr., George Pickens, Matt Corral, and Brian Cook. And our mag was Sam Howell. Commanders. That'll do it for the break guys. Thanks again for the fill. Next up Ten Box Tuesday.


All right, everyone. Let's get started with this. Today, I will share with you a little secret. Specifically, I will let you in on what the end users of our own internal private clouds have been doing for the past two years. What they've been doing is they've been using cluster as a service capability, which we've developed internally, to spin up large numbers of complex, clustered environments inside of OpenStack. Those clusters environments around HPC jobs, big data workloads, but also many other types of workloads. So my name is Piotr Ryvachovich. I'm here with Bright Computing, where I'm responsible for looking after our cloud integration, integration with various cloud platforms. Just to give you a little bit of background, Bright Computing has been around for almost a decade now. What we've been doing is we've been enabling system administrators to very easily turn a pile of hardware into a fully functional cluster. Now, what we did recently with all of that experience is we've moved towards OpenStack with our own OpenStack distribution, Bright OpenStack. And specifically, with our cluster as a service capabilities, we've enabled the end users of OpenStack deployments with the power which, up until then, was reserved for the administrators. That is to easily spin up entire clusters within OpenStack and have their own management interface and monitoring interface to those. So let's jump right to it. So we all know clouds are cool, so that's why we're all here, of course. But what I would like to argue during this short talk is that there is a small gap in the way clouds are consumed right now. Specifically, there's something missing in the typical as-a-service consumption model. Well, we all know typical services of OpenStack like Sahara, which enables end users of the cloud to spin up Hadoop as-a-service deployments, or Magnum, which allows you to spin up container environments directly within OpenStack. And those are very good services, and they do very well with what they're designed to do. However, there is a certain set of users which require a bit more functionality. They want better monitoring, better more elaborate management functionality. They want more control over their cluster. So that's the gap which we are trying to fill with our cluster as-a-service approach to consuming cloud environments. So just to have a look at the agenda for today, we'll start off with a brief introduction to clusters. So we'll briefly define what clusters are. We will have a quick overview of cluster-as-a-service functionality. We'll talk about the use cases, both our internal use case as well as the use cases, which other might find interesting when it comes to applying cluster-as-a-service to those. We'll then jump into discussing why cluster-as-a-service can be considered a stepping stone towards enabling your users to deploy anything they want as-a-service and as-a-service monitor on your clouds. After that, we'll have a bit closer look into the cluster-as-a-service in terms of how it's implemented. OK, so let's start off with what are clusters? So what I have over here is a brief definition from Wikipedia. So let's have a look. A computer cluster consists of a set of loosely or tightly connected computers that work together so that they can be viewed as a single system. That single system part is very important, and that's what distinguishes a cluster simply from a collection of random VMs spun up inside of OpenStack. So typically, a cluster consists of one or more head nodes which store the configuration of the cluster and then some set of general-purpose compute nodes. Now to break that down a little bit, those general-purpose compute nodes can be specialized in one way or the other. So we can talk about compute nodes which run HPC workloads, or hypervisor nodes, or big data nodes, storage, so seven nodes, and so on. So there can be many types of clusters, but the bottom line which I want to stress over here is that all of clusters have to be managed one way or the other because that's one of those parts which distinguishes them simply from a collection of VMs or collection of physical Linux boxes. So what I have over here is just a simple diagram of an example cluster. So in the center, you can see the head node. So that's the main node of the cluster. And on the right-hand side, you can see a collection of compute nodes. So in this example, those happen to be OpenStack compute nodes. So we can see some controller nodes, some server SD nodes, and so on. But what makes that collection of nodes a cluster is a set of cluster management demons running on all of those nodes. So that's our approach to cluster management. We run a cluster management demon at every node of the cluster with the central demon running on the main node of the cluster which orchestrates the management and monitoring of the entire system. And on the left-hand side then, what you have is the interfaces that an administrator can use to access the cluster. So they can use a cluster management GUI or a command line interface or simply an API using, for example, Python. So we've covered briefly what are clusters. Now let's have a very rough overview of what providing clusters as a service is. What does that mean? Well, in a natural cluster as a service is a set of components which we've built around OpenStack and specifically around OpenStack heat. So as you know, heat is the orchestration framework of OpenStack. And we use heat to orchestrate the creation of clusters. But we simply add some functionality on top of that. What CAES or cluster as a service allows you to do is, well, first of all, it allows you or your end users to very easily provision entire environments, entire cluster environments inside of OpenStack very rapidly. So it can be as fast as 10 to 15 minutes, depending on your hardware. Those cluster environments right after being provisioned come with the choice of packages defined by the user. So the cluster can be specialized to run HPC workloads or Hadoop workloads, Spark workloads, and so on. I've mentioned earlier that what we are trying to achieve with cluster as a service is to give the end users similar capabilities which were normally reserved only for system administrators. So in this case, all the clusters provision inside of OpenStack with our cluster as a service solution come with a very powerful management and monitoring interface which users can use to gain more insights into the workloads which they are running inside of OpenStack. And above all, all of that can be accessed via a single pane of glass management interface. So let's have a look at the typical architecture of CAES. So what you can see over here at the very bottom are simply physical boxes. So that's the physical layer of your typical OpenStack cloud. We have some physical boxes which run Linux and some kind of management software to manage that all. So in our case, that's our own cluster management software. Now with that, the system administrator, which manages this layer, is capable of spinning up various environments inside of that physical cluster. So those can be physical HPC deployments, big data deployments, or OpenStack private clouds. Now this is where it gets really interesting. So if you have your OpenStack private cloud deployed on top of our cluster management software, what you can enable your users to do is you can enable them to create their own clusters inside of OpenStack. So you can see what's showed up over here is simply a virtual layer, a virtual cluster created by the end user of the OpenStack cloud. So again, you can see the virtualized hardware, Linux, management software, and whatever software a user wants or needs on top of that. And of course, you can have many of those, as many as you like, in fact. And you can even go as far as to create your own OpenStack deployments inside of that OpenStack deployment, which is a really cool thing for testing and development. So this shows you who is responsible for which parts of the components. So you can see at the bottom, like we said, that's the administrator which is capable of giving some of the users access to some of the components deployed on the physical layer, like, say, the physical HPC deployment. And then the virtualized clusters running inside of OpenStack, those are managed completely by the users which have created those using cluster as a service. Now, what's really cool in that is that all of those components are capable of dynamically bursting into external public clouds. So what that means is if the administrator or the user runs out of the resources which are located on-premise in their own private cloud, they can very easily extend the pool of available resources with the resources available in, say, Amazon EC2, Amazon VPC. So what you see over here is a screenshot of the management interface which is available to the end users or the administrators right after creating a cluster. So on the left-hand side in the left pane, you can see resources which are currently defined within the cluster in the main pane. You can see the currently selected resource. So in this case, what we are looking at is we're looking at a virtualized cluster which has been provisioned with Hadoop and Spark. Next screenshot, so in this case, similar user interface, but in this case, we have a cluster with Kubernetes deployed on top of it. And this screenshot covers the monitoring capabilities which are available to the end user right after creating the cluster within OpenStack. So we can see that the clusters basically should get created with a whole set of different metrics which are already tailored to the components which are part of the cluster. So we can have over here HPC-related metrics, Hadoop metrics, Spark metrics, Set metrics, or OpenStack metrics. What's also interesting is that it's possible to extend that collection of metrics which are your own metric collection scripts. So if you want, you can simply create a simple script which probes a number and plug that into our monitoring framework. Overall, this gives you a lot of insight into whatever you're doing inside of OpenStack. So our use case. So as I've said before, well, we're a software product company. Our product allows the administrators to deploy and manage clusters. So naturally, our primary use case for this situation is to test our product inside of our own private cloud. So that's actually how this entire project started. So in the actual long time ago, what we used to do to fulfill that for development, QA, and support, we simply used physical clusters for all of those tasks. But that's obviously not manageable. So at some point, we've moved towards simply using KVM and a set of scripts to dynamically create clusters inside of a small KVM cluster. But again, that quickly became, does that really scale? So about two years ago, we've moved towards using our OpenStack integration to deploy our own OpenStack private cloud. And we do all of our development, QA, and support on that cloud. Now what then turned out is that many of our customers and prospects really like this idea. And they wanted to have a similar functionality inside of their own private cloud. So what we decided to do is we decided to productize that approach. And that's how cluster as a service came to be. So again, some more screenshots. So over here, we can see a screenshot of the management interface to a Spark deployment running inside of OpenStack. Over here, we have a comparison of management interface of OpenStack versus your typical Horizon dashboard. So Horizon dashboard is, of course, also available. But what we also do is we allow you to manage the most commonly accessed functionality of the dashboard of the Horizon from within our cluster management interface. This overall gives you a single pane of glass experience to both your physical layer as well as to your virtual layer. Well, other use cases, there are many, of course, from training environments, R&D deployments, virtualized labs, security and compliance. So that's quite interesting. What you can do is you can create, if you're processing sensitive data, you might want to create, say, isolated HPC environments inside of OpenStack, each running specific set of workloads for a specific tenant so that you're quite sure that they are nicely isolated from one another. So like I said before, cluster as a service is only a stepping stone towards a bigger picture, towards enabling your users to provision anything as a service. So in our case, we use cluster as a service to provision Hadoop, Spark, Seth, OpenStack virtualized environments, but you don't have to be limited to that. In fact, you can provision any type of cluster environment you want, any type of third party clustered software or your clustered software. So the way it works in our environment, our end users first specify the Linux distribution they want to have their virtualized cluster based on, so say, REL7. After that, they select a set of packages which will get pre-installed on all of the virtual nodes of that virtual cluster. So again, many combinations are possible depending what an individual user needs. So it can be, say, a set of Hadoop packages or a set of Spark packages, or maybe a combination of Seth and OpenStack packages for virtualizing OpenStack. After that, the user simply has to select the version of the cluster management software which will be used for managing that deployment. And this is an actual command line which our users use on a daily basis to spin up tens of different clusters every single day within our own internal private cloud. So we can see over here, we are selecting the OpenStack flavor for the head nodes, for the compute nodes. We are selecting the number of the compute nodes, the name of the cluster, the Linux distro which is to be used, disk layout, maybe some custom script which will customize the cluster after it has been created. And there you go. All the user has to do is press Enter, wait a bit, grab a coffee, and when they are back, there are clusters that are waiting for them. They can simply log into the management interface we've seen before and start working with the cluster. So that was a command line interface. We also feature a horizon dashboard integration which allows you to easily create your clusters directly from within horizon. So anything as a service. But as you can by now, I hope, clearly sees that by combining cluster as a service functionality with whatever third-party component you want, you can very easily arrive with anything as a service solution. So in the case of combining cluster as a service with Hadoop, you end up with Hadoop as a service. But in principle, it can also be OpenStack as a service, SEVA as a service, HPC as a service. Possibilities are limitless. So in the case, for example, of HPC as a service, the clusters will be pre-installed with various HPC libraries like API, OpenMP, or CUDA, various tools and compilers, and the workload manager of choice. So again, we integrate with all of the major workload management systems out there. In the case of a Kubernetes as a cluster approach, the cluster will be provisioned with a pre-configured Kubernetes deployment to which a user can log in and immediately start creating Docker containers. So we've had a high-level view at cluster as a service now. Let's have a bit closer look at the actual implementation, how it ties in with OpenStack. So in a nutshell, like I think I've mentioned, cluster as a service is simply a collection of components written in Python which wrap around OpenStack and specifically around heat, so OpenStack orchestration framework. Internally, we chose to use SEV for storage purposes. That's because it provides a very nice copy and write functionality which you can use to snapshot volumes or instantiate entire clusters from copies of previous volumes. However, in principle, that can be any storage system you want. The way it works is, well, the user runs a script or uses the horizon dashboard to kick off the creation of the cluster. Our cluster as a service then constructs a definition of a heat stack which then it pushes to heat for heat to orchestrate the creation of the networking and of the VMs. That creates the main node of the clusters. That creates the head node which either gets installed using a pixie boot and going through the full installation process or gets simply instantiated VA copy and write functionality. After that, we've created individual nodes of the cluster. Those nodes pixie boot off of the head node and get provisioned with software image and software packages which are at that point already pre-installed at the head node. And the last step is to simply customize the cluster by either deploying OpenStack or Hadoop, SEV, or whatever else has been requested by the user. Yeah, that's it. Any questions? OK. Yeah, thank you very much.


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Look at that bird!   So the biggest change for me from the last season of Jolly Shot is now I'm in a full-blown relationship which I never thought I would be. It's a bit mental thinking about it to be honest with you. First impressions of Australia is a bit of a weird one. I thought I'd be greeting with snakes and spiders. I haven't seen anything yet. The web is better though. There's quite a difference in the appearances from the lads over here to Newcastle. Everybody here looks after themselves and you don't really see loads of people sitting greggs over here having pasties. My favourite new word that I've worked since being in Australia is crikey. I can't stop saying it. Wow, that was a crikey night. The best thing for me about being down under is definitely the weather. I love the sun and overheating. It's absolutely boiling all of the time. The worst thing down here is the time difference to England when we wake up. England's asleep. I don't get to talk to anybody. Who can drink more? 110% Jolly's can drink better than Australians. Nick on the first night couldn't even keep up till we got to the club. He was absolutely mortal. Definitely, definitely the best hangover cure in Australia is to go straight down the beach, get in the sea and have a surf. It actually works. I've done it. I don't mean to get hungover but the one morning I was and went straight to the sea. Felt miles better straight away. The scariest thing I've seen since being in Australia is definitely Chloe on the morning when she wakes up. I 100% would move to Australia. The weather's perfect. The nights out are unbelievable and the beaches are absolutely to die for. Believe it or not, I was actually meant to move to Australia in December. I had a rigging job sorted in Perth in the mines but obviously that's on the back burner because, oh, I'm doing this.


Jack Dorsey says, Noster is counterculture today and has the potential to stay that way. The open and wildly decentralized development model keeps it punk. So that's an interesting assertion because he's saying the medium is the message here and that just the very design of Noster is going to keep it that way. It's going to keep that punk ethos indefinitely. Do you think that's right or is it going to kind of evolve new norms as the user base, if and when the user base grows? When I learned about Noster, it was a little bit too early and these guys were playing it that I was too busy with Bitcoin. And then I think it came back a few months ago.  This is great. And I think Jack joined as well and he sort of did a little bit of an infusion of cash and attention and that project sort of like taken off. It's working and it's been a blast. Here's an example of I think this post from Odell really distills down the Noster culture. It's going to make no sense to anybody who has not been on the network. Pure Vita, stay humble and stack sets and then kind of hang loose of OG. Underneath there says PV, hang loose. What does any of that mean? Go ahead, Will. You integrated into the client. So Jack has had a huge influence on at least the Dhamma's client. So right when he started joining, he would do the Shaka, the hang loose emoji to every person who joined. So eventually we changed the like button to, which was the heart on Twitter, we changed it to the Shaka. So it's like, because it makes more sense and Jack agreed, it's just anyway. So the culture is kind of like is evolving and we're kind of integrating into the client over time. And Pure Vita I think is a term from you know, Costa Rica or something where it just means pure life. And it's, I don't know, it just, it kind of took, it just, it took off and now we use it for everything. So it's got that, you know, Jack's positive attitude. It's got that like laid back vibe to it. That's kind of. And it's, I mean, it seems like a bit of surfer culture kind of thrown in a positive way. You know, I think we should definitely bring up to this audience that Jack was like a Walmart greeter for, for like pretty much everybody who joined on the first, on the, on the big wave that came in, what was it three, four, three months ago, two months ago. It was, it was fun to see. What does that say to you, the fact that the founder of Twitter is certainly, he's got to be the most high profile backer. He certainly put, you know, the most money into the project. What does Jack Dorsey's involvement mean for Nostar? It's validating, right?  Oh yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, he, he said, this is what, this was a big post that he did on Nostar. He's like, this is what Twitter felt like at 5,000 users, but better. And so I feel like Jack, this is kind of what he always wanted to build is an open free speech protocol that's like real time. It reminds him a lot. Like, it's nostalgic to him from the early days of Twitter when, because Nostar's actually was very much like what it felt like in the early days of Twitter, more real time and like open protocol, open APIs. So I think he's like, yeah, nostalgic. And he just wants to, you know, he wants to like take that, what he had it in the early days of Twitter and he, and relive it in Nostar and build it out. So it's kind of cool. Yeah. Sorry guys. Like, what's really cool is that like he is contributing a lot financially too to a lot of projects. And like, but the community itself is doing as well. We actually have a website, bountsrsr.org where people put bounties for features and projects and people are building like this hablo.news and there were others.  A couple of years ago at the Bitcoin Miami conference, Alex Gladstone of Human Rights Foundation interviewed Jack Dorsey, who I, you know, I think I find Jack Dorsey to be the most inspiring and very tech leader that we have. And he was talking about how Twitter never should become the platform where people speak, but it should, you know, the internet or there should be a Twitter of Twitters. There should just be, you know, a kind of utopia of utopias. You know, it's a very libertarian, very disperse, very decentralized things. Two questions. Part of the power of Twitter, and this is also true of Facebook and before it was true of, you know, AOL back when it had a walled garden is that it is a place where lots and lots of people are. And is there, is there a necessary tradeoff between the size of the audience, which gives things a lot of power and a lot of meaning and the ability to kind of control your experience or to have maximum freedom? Is that just, is that just a tradeoff? That's one question. And then the second one, is there a way that you can see or has Jack Dorsey talked about this of integrating Nostra with Twitter so that you can participate in Twitter without having to worry about, you know, Elon Musk as a sugar, you know, blood sugar spike and blocks you forever and ever.  So like, first of all, protocols shouldn't be companies, right? They should be an open protocol that anybody builds on top. Yes, Twitter could create a client, could create a relay tomorrow. And I mean, like Twitter could literally push all the tweets into a relay as the author, or they could, you know, go really the proper route and create like a key pair for each user and sort of like go that direction. So yes, it's totally possible that they could participate in this. But at least in my view, like most people don't want freedom, most people just want a better sell.  And, you know, and we're going to see this, we're going to see relays where it's like, I don't know, like a PG 13, right?  And that's sort of like the moral set that you have. And but the key here is choice, right? It's not preventing the people who do want freedom to have that freedom. Hey, thanks for watching that excerpt from our conversation with NVK and Will Kassarin about Nostra and the future of the decentralized web. Check out the full interview in the description below and tune in every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern to catch these conversations live and subscribe to recent TV and hit the notifications bell to find out any time our videos go live.