We're going to open up the public hearing. This is on the roads that have been identified to have safety issues with them. This is the opportunity, as many of you know, the select board has been out to view all these roads, to look at them. We've heard from the town employees involved with them. Now, this is your turn to tell us why you think the road is safe or why what we're being told isn't quite the way it is or changes that can be made and how those changes are going to be made so that we do have safe turnarounds, we do have safe areas for these operations. Given that there's so many of them on the agenda tonight, what we're going to do is go road by road. So anybody who wants to speak to that road will have the opportunity, keeping it road specific. And when you're speaking, if you could state your name for the record first, because Shannon has to capture everybody's name and what their comments are about the safety of these roads. Madam Chairman, does that, what you're expecting is going to take up the entire public comment section with the agenda? We're not on the agenda, we're in the public hearing. That's before the select board meeting. If you look at the actual posted agenda, it has the meeting date and then it says a notice of public hearing first and then we move into the regular agenda. Thank you. But it will take quite a while as there's 17 roads to be heard on before we start the agenda. So to get it started, we'll start with Rainbow Drive. Do we have anybody here for Rainbow Drive? Yep. You can just state your name for the record for Shannon. Connor Stradley. Did you want to say anything? Oh no. I'm supposed to be. Well, we want to know is the road going to be classified as class four or do we know what it's going to be classified as? So the process for this is the roads were identified and the town employees gave us information. The select board then went out and did site visits. Tonight is the portion for people to give us information on what their opinion is on the road, what they not opinion, but facts that it's, you know, why you feel it is safe, why you feel there isn't any reasons for it to change classification. And then we have to wait between 30 and 60 days after the hearing tonight before the select board can make a decision. And that gives you a chance to submit more information to the board or things that you want to have considered. Tonight's hearing is for you folks to tell us information. You want us to take into consideration when we make the decision. You don't have the information that was collected to deem the roads worthy of being on the list in the first place? Yeah, we got that to begin with from the town folks, from the staff and whatnot. Yeah. That how they identified it. So you have that information right here? What we're looking for now is, this could be because a truck rolled over in the door yard. It could be because it's stuck there. They're turning around on property that's not the town's property. There's a variety of things that are impacting them. But we haven't been told what those issues are for our particular road. None of us, none of us. Nobody. We talked about those. We talked about them all on the site visits for the ones I was on. We talked about them on the site visits. You didn't tell me. We talked about that the road on your specific, well, we'll get to it when we get to your road, but where the limitations were a lot, some of that's not town property, where they come up in from, I think the road for yours ends at the edge of your house. And if you look at where it turns around, there's not a, that whole turnaround, everything is on, not on town property. It's not a risk for town property. That's part of the issue, but it's not a good turnaround location there either. It's just some of their concerns. So, you can ask a question. It's a broader question, not as roads specific. Yep. So are you looking at these safety issues on all of Randall's roads? Or are you only looking at them on these single house roads? They're looking at all the ones that were identified as having a safety issue with them. So there are no other roads other than these 17 roads that have safety issues? No, we're working our way through all of them, but we can do them all at once. So there were actually a couple more that were identified during one of the site visits. We'll be right out there also. How many roads does Randall have that should have safety issues? In terms of the number of the roads, I don't have the total number of the roads now, but like the chair said, we're going by what our highway plow drivers have told us first and we're going to investigate further than other roads as they come along. So I understand that there are questions of what information came from where and the information came from town employees and as an HR perspective, they have to be investigated and this is a part of the process. So you're saying there's only 17 roads on that list that have concerns? I'm saying that the 17 roads were expressed to me by our employees as being a concern when I ask. But one of your taxpayers in Randall asked how many roads are on this list in Randall? There's 17. 17 to 30, 40, how many are on this list? The reason I ask in that question, because I have it, it's very convenient that this list is all sort of houses at the end of roads as opposed to looking at, well, this road, Fish Hill has plenty of unsafe spots where I'm sure that the plow trucks occasionally go off. I've seen photos in the herald of plow trucks off the road. So it seems unusually convenient that this specific grouping of roads has been identified versus hearing about other roads that where the town is gonna be looking into doing improvements, whether it's guardrails or re-aligning the road, that hasn't been discussed. So this sort of looks a little differently than just the safety issue and might be more of a financial issue since we are coming into budget season. This isn't a financial issue. This isn't a huge dollar value of savings. It's actually in a cost random offering. If I could continue the general issue, though, I think I've got a lot of calls because I was on the list and I'm also on EDC and budget about what's kind of the what's going on calls, right? Like what's going on, right? And so the thing that I heard over and over again that I think people were concerned about was that not a single owner that contacted me had heard of a problem prior to this coming up. And so there's a confusion about why the landowners were not contacted to ask them why, you know, what we have a safety concern. Instead they feel like they were blindsided and right going into winter was this list. So the general concern really was, well, if there were safety concerns, why were they not raised? And then some people checked, because then I heard from several people who said, well, I went and looked, were there any of the concerns raised on any of these roads? And apparently there was not a single written concern put in about any of these roads. So then there's the question of, well, gosh, how did we suddenly have such a significant safety concern that we took the time of our valuable town employees? And I appreciate all of you who went out on site visits to look at our roads and our town employees rather than perhaps checking to see beforehand how legitimate or how well documented these were prior because I know that some of the site visits failed to identify the kinds of safety concerns that would be expected from these reports. Is that a fair, so that's, I think that there's really just more confusion and concern. I think just to clarify, I think there's this misconception that the town is saying that these roads are unsafe. When in reality is we received a comment from town employees to me and I made the request that tell me what the process is when you do your applying, tell me about where there may be a potential problem for you so that we don't have it in the future. So employees shared their concerns with the town. So the town is investigating a potential claim of a safety issue as opposed to the town telling you all there is a safety issue on your road. Those are two separate things. So the process is to investigate the claim of a safety issue as opposed to a warning to you all to say your road is unsafe, be careful. So why couldn't that issue be investigated without throwing a bomb into the room and starting a discontinuous or reclassification process? Why not pick up the phone or send the letter and say, hey, we've had some concerns about this. What can we do about it? And work with us. And I do believe all the letters said your road is a safety concern. There is a safety concern, but you just said now that it's not all about the safety that's why you went out to check each road. Right. Well, there is a safety concern. It was shared to us by our employees. Do you have a list of all the safety concerns for all the roads in Randolph or the all the specific roads that are identified? Well, the issues are either turning in the roads and or the specific roads. Like to last list. Do you have a list of all the specific roads that those all drivers identified? Yes, I did. And is that only the 17 roads here? Yes. And those are almost all single family roads. And none of the other roads in Randolph are deemed to be unsafe. Right. I don't think anybody's saying that they're not stating the roads as being unsafe. What we've said is that during that conversation, these are the roads that were raised as having the biggest concern to the highway group. So, there's a variety of things. And I didn't go on the first day's site visit, but I went on the second day's site visit. And the issues are pretty much consistent across, which is how do you safely get the truck into these locations to do the work they need to do and get them back out without backing out into traffic where they can turn around and on property that the town has some type of control over and where the area that they're backing around on is a safe area for them to be. The ones that I went on on the second day, we were looking at how do we resolve some of these issues? One of them where they backed around, it was a slant. So can we add gravel in there to bring it up and make it so the truck can make the swing and do that stuff? That was the issue. There is a safety concern. As soon as an employee raises a safety concern in how they do their job, or a member of the public raises a safety concern on something, we're obligated to look into it and figure out what it is. And in looking at the options that were there for these, the path forward was to follow the state process for valuating the roads and classifying them correctly. So that's the process. I understand that you have to like evaluate everything but it seems out to me that you wouldn't spend any time saying like, what can we do to make this road safe? So that the plow shop drivers will feel safe while they are driving on the road. And also I think the history of the road should be considered as well because I know the history of my road for 70 years has never been an accident on it. And there's never been a complaint by any of the landlord owners about it. So to come up and say that, there's a safety issue on this road now, it seems a little bit like very subjective. And I wonder about the how you got reports from the plow drivers. Well, what about getting reports from maybe an engineering, somebody who has more training in what is safe and what isn't safe instead of somebody who just drives a plow truck? Perhaps we can have everyone in this room that lives on a private road that's done this for a number of years, stand up if you've ever had a safety incident that anyone has ever come to. Did anyone have to pull a plow truck out? Did they go off the road? Did you go off the road? Was there an accident on your road? Did anyone ever come and talk to you and say, hey, we're uncomfortable turning around here? We're all neighbors.  You go and talk to them. What are we doing here? Okay, so what the process is at this point that we're in the middle of is the opportunity when we get to your road for you to tell us those things. That you have- You're not telling us the information. You're not sharing what safety concerns specifically has been addressed on any of the roads that the individuals in this river sit on. You sent everyone a very strongly worded letter and then you've come and done hearings in which every select board person hasn't even attended. And then we're all here tonight but you still won't share information.  You're concerned about Howard Hill. You are not concerned about Hill State Lane. There's never been an accident on that road. And the town also doesn't really do that great a job of maintaining it. If there's a safety issue for the last 25 plus years, you've got money from the state of Vermont and from us as taxpayers to maintain that road. So why are you telling me there's a safety issue now? So Kathy, specifically, I was at your house. I know. And I went on that road. And in your case, right, is a turnaround issue. You park vehicles in your lower driveway where the town can't get turned around in. They have challenge to have to back all the way out. Your road's very narrow. So in conjunction, I'm sorry to start on my barrier. Jeff. Jeff. We talked to him and your father was there who is an engineer and we talked about options of putting gravel in at a turnaround place, actually at two places at yours. So to Trini's point, we are looking at other solutions outside of reclassification. And in addition, I have specific notes from the town highway head who has indicated on which roads they're pulled trucks out on and how many times per year they do that. And I have that here on all the ones I went to. So that's the information that we're gathering. It's an information gathering and the anger of a reclassification that hasn't even happened. It's a safety assessment that we're required to act on. But you're not sharing that information with everyone. We just collected it, right? And this is why we're here tonight, is to hear. So pass us around the list, please. All of those things are so important. It is not true at all. I'm sorry, careful. What you're hearing is that the information that you have is something that we haven't been able to get access to the people who asked for the reports. Apparently, we weren't telling anything because I know two people called and said that they had asked for problem reports. And I'm obviously at this point. First time ever. So was that list that you have of the town trucks that have been pulled off something that could be obtained by the townspeople who were asking about why their road had come under consideration? So I'd have to ask from the procedural standpoint whether that, you know, we get our notes together and distribute those, I'm not sure. But I don't know who's requested and who's received your request for any of these reports the first time hearing it. So I haven't gotten any requests from any of them. But I was told there are none. There's no reports. There's notes, right? I mean, these are my chicken scratch right here and all of them. I'm sorry. Why weren't the people notified of these safety problems at the time they were addressed to you to the town manager? It boils down to the article you people had several months ago in a paper. You just want to take class three roads and change them to class four. That's the bottom line. You're not talking safety. All right, that just doesn't make a bit of sense. I live on Tentford Drive. And from the day that road was put in, there's never been a national on that road that I know of. With an easement in the deed that says the town and that it's to the right of way for highway purposes granted to the town of Randolph. So you guys were granted right away to do that. Maybe a great opportunity for a solution at that point. You guys wanted to just take the class three roads, change them to class four, give us the land back. And I think it's an underhanded thing you're doing with all of us people. I mean, nobody in this room has been notified of a safety problem. And yet you people are saying, that's the main reason why we got the meeting. And I think, I can't be honest about this, but I'm wondering if them 17 roads that he's pertaining to are all class three roads. Because originally, that's what you people went after. One house on a road. Because that was in the paper. And on that, are those 17 roads, one house, two houses? No, there's several of the roads that have more than one house on it. Several, meaning two roads have more than one house on it. There was at least the seven, whatever I visited, there was two or three. So I didn't go the next day. And most of those roads have opportunity to expand or develop that property should they want to. Not an accurate statement, no. So I'd appear just to adult though, this came up in 2016 in December before he was here. So part of the confusion appears to be why it was initially raised as a cost issue. And then it came up again with an almost identical road list with a safety question. My understanding is the original list that was put together that came before the board then was safety issues that were raised. And Mel Adams put numbers to it of what that meant. The $200, I think, we get paid a year from the state that we would lose. And then he had a variety of numbers that he had put together on what it would take, including one of the roads he actually put what it would cost the town to bring it up to standard. And it was over a million dollars to bring that road up to standards.  But the original list did come from the highway folks with some concerns. The problem is we went through a transition there. The issue got dropped. And then poor adult would get to pick up the hot potato and finish the process because it was identified as an issue that never got resolved. That may explain the why confusion about why it was originally seen as a cost savings issue. And now it's not really a very big cost savings at all. Yes, it is. You are one of the people that wrote my property told me that it was a cost issue also on how much it costs to maintain the trucks and plows and everything that you utilize to plow or maintain it, I should say. And that. I don't remember a discussion about the cost of the trucks. I remember the discussion about the turnaround areas not ours to take with the fact. And I think somebody here made a nice statement when they said that those roads can't be the only roads in Randolph that's got problems. Yeah, we had a question. Have you looked into any problems of accidents with the trucks? Have you? How many have? Well, we actually, on one of the roads, we had talking with the owner about how he helped pull it back up out. So, and it's. Well, is that an employee's responsibility to keep the truck on the road? Well, yeah, I think so. But if the area is not safe for him to do it, it's a little bit of a challenge.  When you go start up the Rosie Honk Road, the ditches on both sides of the road are six foot deep. I went out and measured them. And they're five foot wide at the top.  You was there, you saw it, and there's no maintenance ever been done on that road, and it was put in in 65. And never has any, not one loaded gravel, nothing. The only thing they've done is plow. And it hasn't needed it either. I mean, he's not saying you guys didn't do your job. He's just saying it's a very low maintenance road. Yeah. And, you know, he expected, because the deed says, the town is, well, the town owns it. But if the town owned just what you guys said at our place was we don't own the turnaround, why would the town of Randolph make a road that couldn't be turned around on? And I don't believe that the previous owners made that turnaround. It's the same material that the road is. It's the same height.  My father even had a telephone pole put in with a big light on it so that there would be plenty of room to see. So I guess it's just, when something's in your deed, you expect that to be, you know. Honored. I mean, what gives the town the right to change my deed? Well, I don't think the town's changing. If you, if I heard what you read correctly, it's the town has a right away for highway purposes. Okay. Correct? Yeah. So right away, she's saying the right away doesn't, the town doesn't own the right away. We own the right away. It doesn't mean we have to. The town owns it. All we have to do with it. So lots of times you'll have somebody will have a right away for water rights across your land. It doesn't mean they have to dig it up and put water rights in there or it doesn't say, you know. We also see a right away across property for highway purposes that ends up being used as a trail. That was part of the ancient roads process. So the state and the towns all went through for, I don't know how long that was, five or six years it took to get through that. We went to one property and the ancient, or a couple of them, the ancient roads process identified the roads that went on, but the town didn't, in some cases, the landlord themselves lobbied for us not to keep that and to throw it up at the end of where they wanted the town to maintain the road. So the trail portion that would be there for public use is gone from the ancient roads process. So, you know, you have, in that case, there might be a right away in your deed that's no longer valid either because the town chose not to take action towards the ancient roads, but a right away doesn't mean you have to use that right away. Yes, but we were told that you can't turn around because you don't own the property, but don't you, if you have a right away to be on that property, I can be within my right away, right? I can be within my right away. So my right away on that, or the town's, is a straight path in. To the garage. It's not over on the lawn here or... And how do you know that when that road was built that turnaround was not part of the... Because your dad told me about the material he had brought in there. I brought it in on my own. So I had access to Greenwood's equipment when I worked for them. So I took the dump truck. That's how we know. I thought that was the end of the driveway. No, no, I put it in the driveway. That's how we know. It took me the surgery when we were there that day. I only did it because I figured it out. Save you guys. That's all right. Nobody's complaining. I think this whole investigation on these roads has been really half-assed to put it that way. Okay, thank you. Because I'll tell ya, we should have been notified of all the safety of our passengers on our roads that these people live on. And we haven't been. And I don't want to hear Mr. Adams didn't do it. Somebody didn't do it, and I don't care who they are. Okay, thank you. So to make use of the time that we have here as we're gathering this information, let's go road by road so people can tell us the information they came prepared tonight to present to us. Then remember, we still have a 30 to 60 day period after this before a decision is made. Then gives us the opportunity to have that back and forth to find a solution before any decisions are made. So with that, was there any information on Rainbow Drive after all this? With information, no, I have a comment. But, so I'm the only house on the road. So I understand why you don't want to plow it. But my concern is we throw it up. Your safety hazard is now my problem. So I'm not prepared to fix a culvert or the narrow road or any of the things that make it unsafe for you guys. Do you have no problem just giving it to me to figure out when it's a road? Where you've received money from the state for years to make sure there weren't any safety issues on that road. Yeah, just to be clear, we do not receive very much money from the state on the bus for your highways. But you do receive tax money and you have tax. So the next one is the Donnie Smith Drive. Yeah, I'm some Donnie Smith Drive and I just had a few questions that, how can two or three people change a road? I mean, I wouldn't think that there's three people could say, okay, this is gonna be a class three road. And I've lived there for many years. It's been in the family for 200 years. And it's always, we have grain trucks come in with tractor trailers. We have a milk truck that comes in is bigger than your plow trucks. And we don't have any trouble. I know there was an accident on my road with a plow truck, but I think the town had a little something to do with that one. The water used to run down the wheel tracks. And then after the town truck kipped over up there, they decided that summer they come up and put in some new culverts, changed the water situation, built the road up some and we've never had any trouble since. So that's what I think about it. I can address the road. Greg Bissen, I'm the owner of GK Bissen Trucking. I pick up the milk at Dawn Smith's farm. I drive some big trucks. And as you guys know, you're welcome to ride with us. We go into some terrible places and we have to go. And my heart hats off to the town crews. Actually, I wish I could cancel milk trucks on days schools canceled because we know the roads aren't gonna get sanded at eight o'clock in the morning when we're out there. So for Dawn to be left with that issue of trying to take care of that road the way you guys maintain them, it probably won't happen the same. You guys have the equipment that can push back the sides and everything else in order to let our trucks get through. So we're safe if we meet a car coming up that road or stuff, we have room to get over without that equipment. It's not gonna happen. I represent the farmers here tonight just in a sheer case of it's not anywhere we, I mean, we look up to you guys to be there when we need you there. And I did hear a couple of months ago that on the news that the state of Vermont was gonna allocate some funds for class four roads because they are becoming behind and caught up. So I encourage you guys to look into that and see if that's available. Some funding to create those turnarounds and things like that. I mean, Trini, you know. So yeah, but I heard about it on the radio and so if it's a system that helps you guys run an outlet. But I really- You're gonna do some grants on class fours for stormwater. Yeah. Management. I'm here on behalf of the farmers tonight. And that's our- Don't get small and close and close. We don't have any complaints on our road for the town crew. I think they do an excellent job.  But they take good care of my road. And you know, I've been happy with the way it's done. There's no complaints here. I appreciate everything you guys do. And I hope to see it keep happening because I don't know what would do without you. Ferris Drive. Manager's Drive. Hillside Lane. West Side. Hillside. Check the time to write some stuff down. So there we- Check. Bacon. Charles Bacon. Although people who know me call me Chip. If I'm Charles, I'm in trouble. I was born here in Randolph. I've lived here pretty much all my life. And my wife and I met here in elementary school just a few years ago. And we've lived on Hillside Lane since before it had a name. We've raised a family there. My wife and I chose to settle here because this has always been home. A lot of our extended family lives around here, but more than that, we believe it's a great community where people generally care about each other and support each other. We own a business in town that employs a fair number of people and we try to have a positive impact on the community. Receiving a letter from the town manager, Mr. Baylon, stating the town's considering reclassifying Hillside Lane due to safety concerns during snow plowing operations that had been reported by snow plow drivers employed by the town. There's been a homestead on the site now served by Hillside Lane for nearly as long as Randolph has existed. Presumably there was a road to get in or to get to it for the vast majority of that time. Hillside Lane has been a class three highway since the classification system came into being in 1974. According to 19, I'm not a lawyer, but I've done some reading. And according to the Vermont State Statutes, 19 PSA section 302, they define a class three highway as being, quote, negotiable under normal conditions all seasons of the year by a standard manufactured pleasure car. 19 PSA section 310, adjusted the town's responsibility to keep the class three highways, quote, in good and sufficient repair during all seasons of the year. Both of those sections contain a notable exception, quote, based on safety considerations for the traveling public and municipal employees, unquote, that gives the select board the, quote, authority to determine whether a class two or class three highway or section of highway should be plowed and made negotiable during the winter, unquote. Nowhere in those statutes does this address the classification or discontinuance of a road as a way of addressing safety concerns regarding winter maintenance operations. The notification letter I received cited 19 PSA chapter seven, which describes a process to be followed when considering reclassification or discontinuance of the town road. According to that statute, after sight has been examined and hearings held, the select board must judge whether, quote, the public good necessity and convenience of the inhabitants of the municipality require, unquote, the road to be reclassified. That appears to be the standard to be met in deciding this issue. Does the public good require this proposed action? Like the category of state that is an inhabitant of this municipality that reclassified or discontinuing hillside lane isn't going to add convenience. Safety concerns are an emotional issue, but the law talks about safety considerations. Considerations is defined as a, quote, fact for a motive taken into account in deciding or judging something. So what are the facts? My family and I have lived on hillside lanes for a quarter century. In that time, I cannot recall a single accident on that road. Not once in 25 years has there been any indication that plowing hillside lane is exceptionally risky or dangerous for plowed drivers or the public. Let's face it, if you can have any Howard Hill to get there, hillside lane isn't your problem. We're not considering reclassifying Howard Hill road, are we? Incidentally, I pulled more cars off of Howard Hill than you can count. Hillside lane is probably wider, smoother, and generally better safer condition now than it has ever been. Now we're supposed to believe that after many, many decades of normal weather maintenance on hillside lane without any evidence of incident or accident, this road and a bunch of others are suddenly such a safety hazard that not only can't you run plow trucks on them, they're so dangerous that they need to be reclassified or discontinued for the public good. This simply doesn't make sense. Have there been any documented safety incidents involving municipal employees on hillside lane? If so, I would ask that those incident reports be added into the public record for this hearing. Have there been any reports of safety incidents or hazards, road conditions on hillside lane from the traveling public? If so, I would also ask that those incident reports be added into the public record for this hearing. Have there been any reported accidents on hillside lane involving municipal employees or the traveling public? If so, those should be entered into the public record. I appreciate the great work our road crews do, and I certainly don't want their doves to be any more difficult than they need to be. I'm happy to work with the town and road crew to try and address their concerns, but we can't solve problems if we don't know they exist. To have the first hint of a problem come in the form of a threat of discontinuance was disappointing. Why not come and talk about it first instead of going straight to the nuclear option? If there were concerns, the former town manager or the highway supervisor could have simply notified us of those concerns so that we can work toward a resolution without getting into a contentious and possibly protracted and expensive administrative and legal process. During the recent visit, nearly all the discussion revolved around whether there was adequate turnaround space for the plows to maneuver. In all the years we've lived there, this is the first time this issue has ever been raised. Certainly the drivers would like to avoid backing out of the road and should be able to accommodate that. The turnaround area at the end of Hillside Lane is already far larger and flatter than it was in previous decades. If we need to ensure that no cars are parked in that area during storm events, that can be done. If a larger space is needed, we can construct the space on the west side of the road pretty easily as a side note within the easement. Finally, I'm really disappointed in how this process has played out to be suddenly confirmed with the possibility that the road to my home may be thrown up and then gut wrenching. While this may seem like a simple administrative change, it has real-world consequences for those of us who live on these roads. When we purchased our property, the fact that it was on a town road was a key selling point. We paid a premium for that access and still hold the mortgage that reflects that. The possibility that Hillside Lane could, with the stroke of a pen, turn from an asset to a liability never entered into our plans. I've spoken with a highly qualified real estate appraiser to get an estimate of the impact of such a change on the value of our property and was told that while a full appraisal would need to be done to get a precise figure, it would likely result in a reduction of about 20% in market value. As my wife and I approach retirement and the possible future sale of our property, the prospect of such a large financial hit is very concerning. The notice I received specifically stated that this process has been driven by safety concerns. At no time during this process has the town addressed the financial impacts that will be imposed upon residents who would be adversely affected by the decision to reclassify or discontinue these roads. I would ask that the board not continue with the process of reclassifying or discontinuing Hillside Lane and instead allow us to work with the town to ensure the adequate space is available to turn their trucks around when plowing. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Any more for Hillside? Tedford? Tedford. What if the situation is that you don't own the turnaround? What if we were to have a lawyer draw up easement to that part of the property so that the town could turn around on that without any legal liability? That's something I would like to be considered. Because again, they're the only safety issue that was brought up when you guys came to visit the road. And I too appreciate the time you guys do and what you do. But again, the only issue as those of you who visited the road, there's plenty of room to turn around and whatnot. But the problem with our road was that the town does not own the turnaround. So we would be happy to get an easement and have a contract or whatever, have a lawyer draw that up so the town would have absolutely no liability and still be able to turn around. Because it's my understanding that was the only issue on our road, correct? Is there another issue besides the turnaround? I believe it was your drive is long and narrow. And then it's moving around. But I don't know. It's narrow, but we would have to check cars coming up and down. The guys, because we can't take the regular trucks, I think, the ones that are close to the time. It's a pickup that goes over there to plow it. Well, the last two years, so it was a 10,000. The last two years, the plow trucks. Hey, folks, please. On conversation at a time, thank you. I know in the beginning, yes, when they first bought the property 21 years ago, it was a pickup truck, a red pickup truck. I remember it precisely. And very nice guy driving it. But the last couple years has been, and I'm not saying every single time, because obviously we don't see every single time. But I know when I've been up there and my parents have seen the big dump trucks can fit up there. And again, the safety concern that was brought up to us on the site visit was simply the turnaround didn't belong to the town. So my understanding is there's no other safety issue there. Yes, it's narrow, but it's narrow enough for a truck to go up. Is it narrow enough for a truck to pass a car? No, but it's a straight shot. And nobody in my parents' house, I'm certainly not going to decide to go down the driveway when the truck's plowing. But if there's another safety concern, we'd like to know. But that would be my request, is that we be allowed to get a legal easement so that you can turn around on the property. Again, just to me, that would be very simple and dry. And I don't believe there anybody's trucks are going to be an issue, or anybody's safety would be involved if you do that. Can I just say your name and the road that you're on? Tedford Dryer. And Susan McMeal. Thank you. Moxley? Brad? Who? Is there something or is there something? Moxley. I guess the issue is the turnaround for us also. And the road stops right at our house. Yet other people live up above, as you know. So I'm kind of in a little bit of a corner. Because how do you get the other folks, if you do throw the road up, which I would prefer, as opposed to reclassifying it to a four. But how do you get everybody together? Ship in on the plowing of it. And so we have a little conundrum there, too. Yeah, and I think if it wasn't yours, that was another one where we talked about any action. Because if you get the other one, somebody else talked about having us throw the road up. And the issue is that we can't leave anybody landlocked either. So part of that would give a right. That right away would belong to all of them. Yeah, the sugar house and the other folks. And you do that to one. And that's in that agreement is where you sort out those type of details. OK. I'll let you know how that works. So it isn't just to be a budding landowner. It's to people up back. Yeah, they all end up with it right away through that area. Right. But here again, I mean, if it's an issue of turning the truck around if it's possible, I mean, we would also be happy to do what we could to, you know, make you harmless on that, on building a turnaround by giving you an easement. Can I make this a machine? Hang on, we're on monster right now. At one point up on yours, there was a whole loop. Yeah, right. Well, it was a drive-in. And it came down in front of the house. And the town truck would make that loop. And the changes that have happened there have changed where the truck has to back up. And it's not a straight entrance into there. There's a culvert there with a ditch that drops off. And then you have the new trees coming on the other side, which cuts down the turning radius. So there's a variety of challenges. Kind of made it so you don't have to throw it out. Right. I'd like to make a statement on this gentleman's driveway.  Now, I could turn around in his yard with no problem. Why is that? The driveway has changed. It's done some construction up there and changed the alignment of the drives and all that. That's one. Well, a couple of years. Since you've been driving for Greenwood. I would like to say that we appreciated your side visit and the time it took to come. And I also want to say that we appreciated understanding what the problem was. Because until the side visit, we had no idea that there was a problem at all. And so then, when you explained what the problem was and how it could be fixed, that seemed very reasonable, cost efficient, and good for everyone. So although we would want it to be discontinued as opposed to class four, we surely love the road to be fixed and the turnaround to be fixed and maintain, have you guys continue your wonderful maintenance of the road. So thank you. Thanks. What's your name? Fenty Flint and Peter Flint. OK, thank you. Thanks. Sorry. That's a good drive. Blaisdell Drive, Bosse Road. We're picking up speed. Blue Goose? Yeah. Hi, my name's TJ Riley. I think I've given you guys all the information already. But I met, as per the meeting on last Friday, I met with Bill on Monday. And Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, he didn't seem to have any concerns down there, but mentioned bringing up a load of material just to level it off a little bit. And I think that was about it, right, Bill? Yeah. And then as for any of the legalities, there's already, as you know, there's an agreement between the town and myself for the dry hydrant. So if there needs to be any amendments to the language to that to specify turning around, that's certainly I'm sure. I don't know if an easement would be necessary, but I'm certainly happy to reflect that in any verbiage with the town so that they're covered in terms of liabilities. So other than that, I think the town does a great job maintaining it.  So that's about it. Yeah, my name's Bruce Weil. I don't live on Blue Goose. I have land abutting it. I live on Silloway Road. Just two points. The hydrant does feed seven houses or does supply seven houses. So it is a, I think to some degree, a safety concern, especially in the winter if the road isn't plowed properly for the fire truck to get there. Kermit had said they can run a hose, but that's valuable time down the drain. The other thing is the sentiment I've heard in the room is that when we got the ladder, we pulled a muscle in the back of my brain trying to figure out what the safety hazard was. So when it came up that it was just turnaround, we kind of had to back down a little because we couldn't figure out what the real problem was. That's all my comments. Palmer Road. Mark Kelly, Palmer Road. Well, OK, so now I've learned that the safety issue was the turnaround at the end of the road, which, as we know, Cross has been turning around there for nearly 100 years. Thank you. And, of course, no problem. And no safety issue besides that, as far as I know. So that's one thing. I'm also concerned on a larger issue, and that is that most of these roads go to farms. Most of them actually are in the East Valley. So the burden that this puts on the farmers is real. And I think that the town has, for 100 years, assumed that burden as part of its civic duty to provide a working farm with the necessary access that they need to do their work. Taking that away from the farmers is, I think, it's easy to do once you start thinking like somebody from a town or a city. But I think that would be the travesty to forget about the people that made this town. And that's the problem. TJ, I also own property off Palmer, so just to echo what Mark had said, I got like 150 acres up there that can't really be accessed with any big equipment through Braille and Palmer's really the only road in there. And I think you guys are well aware that the state just put a hundred how many millions of dollars into that new bridge. And also, if in terms of resolving the turnaround, if there's any necessity to throw any of my property into the mix to make a safer turnaround, I certainly would be happy to do that. Because I think we need to remember in this that we do need to, even if maybe we don't agree with the process, we do need to make sure that we are addressing safety concerns. And I commend you folks for doing that and keeping it above board. That's all I got. Well, one thing, on the subject of the turnaround, that's actually, I've expanded it because I've built in the foundation and now parking our cars over the foundation. So it's a completely different situation than the actual room to turn around as expanded by about 10 feet. But if the issue is simply you can't turn around because it's not counted properly, then that would appear to be the issue that should be addressed. Was that foundation? Sorry, you built a new structure there in the turnaround too? No. Where they used to turn around? No, because the cars were there before. In fact, the cars stuck out farther than the structure they came from. There's also a well head right there, too, where the, if I understand right, where the trucks pull up and go straight forward, there's a well head right there. And what is? And just one more comment on Palmer Road. This is CJ Stump. Thank you. So Palmer is also a right of way to our property because our property is serviced by Braley Cover Bridge, which has height and width restrictions. I drive trucks and trailers and I have brought them and turned them around on the Palmer Road property. And I have seen the new structure and I agree with Mark that it is not something that I would find, it is further off, where I would have turned around previously. So there is actually more space now than there was previously. So just to echo the fact that that is an important access and that the, as somebody who herself brings in both gooseneck and, not often, but it is the alternate, both gooseneck and straight hitch trailers, I can get them swinging around there. Not heard before. Joel Whitney. I spoke with a select man and the town manager, some of the select men in the town manager when they were up there. So there's not much more I can say. I do know that, I don't know how often, but in the past I have seen a fire truck up there filling up at the Colbert for the people on Spona Road. That might be an issue. Other than that, I don't have any, I do have a question though. You said in the beginning, but what's the, this is the hearing or the statements and what's the process after this? So after tonight there'll be, we can't make a decision for at least 30 days, but no longer than 60 days before the decision. So we're at least another 30 days, probably closer to 60 days, we'll have to continue gathering information from folks. Sometimes you get in these hearings and you're like, dang, I should have said, so it gives you a chance to. There's not a whole lot I can say that I haven't, but the town manager explained to me some of, like it does go to a class four. Of course it's not a priority, but they still, the Colbert's and the, it's a storm like Irene comes through again, but he will repair it even if it was a class four. There's still our maintenance standards for class four, right? That's right, yeah. So there's that issue. And then once you've made the decision, is there any notification again before that or you just, will you send a letter just saying we have decided or? It'll be, so what we'll do is set a hearing for a date by which then we'll sit down and we'll go road by road and the board will make the decision on each road, what we're gonna do. And then, I believe there's a period of time from when the decision's made to when the change takes effect. And I don't know if that's 30 or 45 days. So it might very well mean that someone has to start plowing their road in the middle of the winter. Yep. Just like curiosity, yes. Time-wise it could, yep. Great time. Yeah, that would be good. Why wouldn't he have done it during the summer? Anyway, before I, I just want to thank you guys for everything you have done. And I know that my road's not a big priority but I would appreciate it if you kept it going. Thank you. Jackson Road. Yeah, I'll start for that. You guys came up for the inspection. Can you state your name? Jim Siegel. My understanding was that the problem was the turnaround at the top. Was that the only problem with the road or was there other problems? So the notes that I have, one was the turnaround, two was the steep corner going down, third there's a bunch of storm water that's coming off properties into an area that the town doesn't own and then that storm water is going down and washing out the road, right? So there's some property maintenance stuff right at the top on both sides of the road. That's one that you and I, yeah. Yeah, right at the end of the road. Yeah, and that's the notes that I had on that for those three items. Can I know that we've had logging trucks up there which I think was part of the issue with the bottom of the road, certainly for last winter, but the logging trucks have also turned around at the top of Jackson Road. And if there's enough room for a logging truck to get in there and turn around, it would seem like there's enough room for a plow truck to get in there. I mean, I've been up and down that road. You know, I moved to Randolph a couple of years ago and had to get a plow truck from my driveway. And at times I've had to plow Jackson Road myself because that was the only way we could get a car up and down there and being an inexperienced plow driver, I was able to successfully navigate Jackson Road many times during snowstorms. And I'd never felt that it was unsafe. So I want to say that. And I want to say that, like somebody was up here was talking about community and you know, on Jackson Road, you know, we don't get, we don't use town water, you know, we don't use town sewer, you know, we don't have any kids that are in the town school, you know, so like our taxes go towards the road, which is the only way that we really utilize or get back the tax money that we're paying. And, but we don't complain about that. You know, we're part of a community, you know? And so we pay taxes to the school, you know? And we want kids to get educated because they're part of the community and we're part of the community. And we want to make, you know, we want to make this or be part of this town and make it as good as it can be. And, but when I hear that you're not gonna be, there's a safety concern. And because of the safety concern, you don't want to plow the roads anymore.  You know, because like, if your job isn't to, if your plow driver isn't safe on Jackson Road, which I feel he is, but if you feel that he's not safe, then it wouldn't be safe for us either, right? And as we pay money to this community, like to pay for schools and for sewers that we don't use, like, you know, I heard the number, like a million dollars for repairing something, like if the people in this room had to cough up, we don't have the equipment, right? But if we had to cough up a million dollars to make our road safe, we just couldn't do it.  But that's what you guys are here for. Like you're here to build a community, to make the community safe, right? To make it so people can run their farms or go to work, right? That's your job, you know? And to just say, you know, that road's unsafe, so we're just gonna like, throw our hands up and you're on your own, you know, that's not building a community. That's not, you know, and, you know, that's not what the select board that I would wanna live with, you know, would do, you know? So I'm pretty frustrated with this whole thing. I'm pretty frustrated that I got a notice, but the other people in Jackson Road didn't get one, you know, and I have a really good relationship with my neighbor, so that's fine, I'll talk with them, you know, and share the information, but, you know, I'm really frustrated with this process. Like, I really think we could have done better with this, you know, like, you know, if there was an issue with the bottom of the road, that's my problem, fix it. You know, if they had to cut some of the bank away to make the road a little bigger, do that, that's my property, do that, I'm okay with that.  But anyways, I wanna thank you all for the job you do, and I'm pretty frustrated, and, you know, I've never been to one of these meetings before. I'm really hoping that I will never come to another one. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, well, exactly, exactly. But, you know, but we're all on this together, and we live in Vermont. There's hills here, there's mountains here, there's steep roads. Like, all right, make them safe, and then everyone, you know, lives together happy. So, I'm, I have an additional comment on Jackson Road. Gerald Vargo, I didn't get a letter because I'm actually in Brentree. So, I maintain the 700 feet of road. The Brentree doesn't maintain where the town line is, where Jackson Road stops and Jackson Drive starts. Does that go up to the left there? Yeah. I sand it, I cloud it, I maintain it, I ditched it, I've culverted it, I material it, you know, tens of thousands of dollars gone into this road. But, I'm psyched because it sounds to me, like, this whole process, you guys took the time to go up there and look at all these roads because there's safety concerns. Your drivers feel they're unsafe. They let you know, and you went out and looked at them. Now, you're asking us for our safety, you know, any concerns we have. So, ideally, we're gonna get these fixed because you really don't want to have to reclassify any of these roads, right? Is that a fair statement? No. Would you agree with that? Or is that really the end game?  So, just to clarify, when I said the million dollar number, that was to bring a road up to standards. So, the state of Vermont sets out standards for roads and to get the funding we get from the state, we have to agree to adopt those standards. And if we don't agree to adopt them, then we have to have our own standards and we have a higher match on grants that we get through the agency of transportation. So, Randolph has adopted those standards. So, the million dollar number on that one road was if we took that road and brought it up to standards. None of these roads that I went to look at on the second day are at standard because they don't have the width to them, they don't have any of it. So, I'm not gonna say that we want to invest in all these roads to bring them up to standard because you're in brain tree and don't have to pay the tax bill, the rest of the residents of Randolph would have to pay if we brought all these up to standards. It's just not possible. We don't have the financial capacity, nor do I think it would be a wise choice to bring them all up. When you look at the car count on some of these, we have other roads that have a lot more traffic that have needs that with limited funding would come ahead of them. So, I don't- This is not really about identifying safety issues and working with the people on the roads to address them. Is there gonna be an opportunity for that? We already have. So, you mentioned you're gonna make a decision, right?  That's what we're here for, right? You wanna hear what we feel is unsafe. What you feel is that, how you feel about is the road, what was coming to us tonight was your view on the road and what options are there. In some cases, you heard where they've taken the time to meet with the highway folks to look at the road and what would it take? And is there a plan? How can we make that happen? So, it's that type of input that we're looking for tonight. So, that is the process so that we don't have to reclassify so we can make them safe for everybody. So, there's gonna be the opportunity to work with the town. And I'm not even in the town. I just have to use that road to get to work. So. Jared, does Jackson Road connect through to Braintree? Yeah, the town line goes right along Jackson Road. And then when you take a left at Fuzzy's house, you magically end up in Braintree and now you're on Jackson Drive, which I maintain. There is no other way to get to Braintree, though, besides going on Jackson Road. For you to go from Braintree back to Braintree. Yeah, yeah, not only. You have to go to Randolph to go to Braintree. I mean, I could hike over to Mold Lake or across the road. Yeah. You know. Wait when you go by. Yeah. But to even say you're gonna reclassify the roads in the letter is basically saying you safety concerns are just a reason to do it, not that you want to address it. And you want, you know, ideally you would not have to reclassify any of the roads. If you could just take care of the problems and then everybody would be safe. So out of the eight that I was on the first day, right out of those eight, we identified five of those which had viable or possible type solutions rather than reclassification. I don't know the cost in fact of those. We said, hey, that may be an opportunity there.  So from my perspective, you know, looking at opportunities that aren't a million dollar solutions for our viable way to go. Yeah, well, it would just be nice to know if, like if Jackson Road is one of those that you just, it can't be done, well, everything can be done. It's just a matter of money and time, right? So what, what is that? What is that magic number? You know, that's what we would need to know. The cool thing about this list was there's not a dollar amount anywhere on it, no idea.  But it seems like decisions might be made without that information and not even having the opportunity to address the concerns before is not something that's going to sit wrong. Right, so it started the process now, right? Right. And that's, so that's what I'm trying to understand is that what is really happening? Is that what's really happening? Is this a process where safety issues can be identified, planned attack can be made, solutions can possibly be, and maybe you say, hey, you know what, it's not worth it, you know, but before all of a sudden, oh, no, we're not following your road anymore, you know. Could I get some clarification on something that you said? You said that the town has its own standards. No, I didn't. No, I said. The town does have its own standards. But those are the state of Vermont standards that we adopted. Right, but the state of Vermont, the law says that a class three road is one that you can navigate all seasons of the year in a regular passenger car. Does the state funding require that you be up to these public standards or just that it can be navigable by a standard passenger car during all seasons of the year? That's the state law definition of a class three road. So are you saying that in order for you to get state funding, you have to meet every letter of these requirements? No, what I said was we looked at one of the roads that was identified and we said, if we brought it up to match the state standards, it would be almost a million dollars. That's different than you have to. Because what I'm hearing is, you don't have to bring it up to that standard. You have to make it so it can be navigated for the state law. And that is probably a number that is far less than the million dollars you stated. I understand it correctly. The town adopted the state. Right, I've read them. Correct. But is that your statement? That it would take far less than the million dollars to do an adequate job to make sure that cars can travel on it. It would depend on the road. So each road has their own. In some cases, we found simple solutions. That could solve the issue. In some of the others, there weren't such simple solutions. That would take a lot more investment. Do we have to take all 17 and bring them all the way up to the Cadillac standards that we've adopted? I don't know. But you're still eligible for the state per mile appropriations for Class 3 roads as long as they are sufficiently wide and can be traveled on? Just to be clear, this isn't for us to continue. We're not looking at this because the $200 a year we get is such a great thing to go out of there. It's $6,000 a year. For just so we can be clear, for the 17 roads we're talking about, it's $800 a year. It's not 6,000. Would you like to go on the state website and look at exactly what comes down because it's public dollars sharing one of this from making go on and see exactly what Randolph's got for the last number of years? I might go on taxes too. Yeah, I'm not, I'm just disputing. I don't worry about the cost. I just want to be clear as to what you're talking about is that you're not required to meet the standard in every situation. You just need to make the roads possible so they can be considered Class 3 roads. Yeah. Okay. Where we get into having to meet the standards is if we have San Irene went through and wiped your road out, it has to be reconstructed to those standards. If we're doing a major reconstruction project, it has to come up to those standards. So there's basically when the state had everybody adopt the standards, then there was a process set up by which the dream would be for everybody to eventually get to that standard. What's the state proportion or even a portion in the case of a major event? What's their percentage of the cost? It depends on the event and where you get, it can be anywhere from 75% to 90%. No, but the town does get, by adopting road and bridge standards and several other things, so there's a, FEMA will pay up to 75% of an event under certain circumstances. Then there's the match of 25% that is split, typically between the state and the town, that with the more things the town adopts to do resilient things like road and bridge standards, the less the town has to pay. So I mean, in something like an Irene event, if you're in like a town like Bethel, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars in the town saves by doing that. All right. I've heard the town. Kate, so do we have any more comments on Jackson, Ryan? I'm still wondering about the process. As far as you said in 30 to 60 days, you're gonna make a decision. So between now and then, I'm assuming a plan has to be made to what the needs are, what the costs are, are you willing to accept them? There's multiple people involved with the road. So is everybody involved willing to pony up? Is it a state thing? Is it a town liability? So when's that happening before the decision is moved? From tonight to the day that we set for the hearing to make a decision on each road. How are you making a decision?  It's based on all the information that we're gonna gather and look at. All the information is just information. You have to have sort of a say, okay, we look at all this information and compare it against these criteria. There are certain things that you would have to meet to say, okay, this is too expensive for us to invest in. So we would throw it up. Too expensive to bring up to the standards that are necessary for safety. And that's my point, this is that there needs to be some sort of standards by which you're judging this. Otherwise you're just arbitrarily making the decision to throw up a road. Based on a safety concern, of which there's no definition of what safety is. And that's not when you, it's just the way statute is, just a safety, it's real. Who knows? And so I guess I'd like to know what the criteria are. And this is one of the, I mean, it gets to this gentleman's point. We have property by the way on Jacksonville as well. It's not our driveway, but it's property on there. But his point, it's fair. If there's a possible way to remedy a safety problem, are you guys going to discuss that with the landowner or are you just going to sort of say, well, this is a safety problem. It's a done deal. I think it's fair to say that we've been engaged with folks, or say visits I went on, we were engaging with folks about exactly what the issues were, what are the possible solutions and how could we get to a point where the road was safe and So anytime you do a public meeting during the day, you make it challenging for people with day jobs together. I wasn't able to make it to the meeting. Portia, I was able to talk to Mike, so Mike was able to give me some feedback because he and I worked together. So I have an idea of what the thought is, but that's as far as it's gone. I have an idea what the problem is. I don't, as far as I can tell, this is a done deal. You guys are just going to be like, there's a problem on the road, so we're going to reclassify it. And it creates no recourse to be able to work with a landowner to find a way to solve the problem collectively. And what I'm trying to figure out is exactly what he was just asking you is, is there going to be an opportunity? Mike, should I expect a call from somebody?  You're not looking for a solution. You're just looking at the information you've got and making a decision based on the information, not trying to find a way to work the situation. So Chris, there are no other site visits and obviously you weren't at yours. So we talked about solutions to the issues. We talked about whether something went off there, whether it's a turnaround. Sometimes it's people are parked in the way. Obviously, it's been said a lot of times. I don't remember you talking about solutions. I don't remember anybody talking about it. Can I finish, please? Thank you. And we talked about solutions in all the locations and what we can do, all right? So from that point in including your feedback tonight, if there's a conversation that could be had between the landowners and the town, then we're encouraging, like we did Mr. Riley, to come in and start having that conversation. That's where we can work through something between now and the 30 to 60 days. Okay, so he asked that question and Trini didn't give him the answer. My bad answer to me is, is that how to getting it when you were getting it? So let me add, the roads that go into other towns, we're gonna have to have the conversation with the other towns and say, okay, we're thinking about doing this there. What do you guys wanna do about it? If we give up Leonard Road that goes into Bethel and there's no random taxpayers on the road, we then have to talk to the municipality and say, you know, we're gonna give this up. Do you guys wanna maintain it? And we won't give it up and we'll just do a road swap with it or something. So it's a process that obviously is gonna go through, but that's my impression of the way we should be going and that's the way we have our people. So we're all gonna hear from you in the next two weeks. One about the town highway. I mean, I'm gonna talk to you. That's a class question. Well, then you're gonna answer questions when we come in this time then? Because I haven't had any questions answered. Maybe these guys will. I haven't had any questions answered by the town manager when I come in, nor have many other people in this town. To be clear, the question you asked was which plow driver made this claim? I asked what the safety concerns were on the road and you told me it was a human resource issue and you wouldn't respond to that. Correct, because your question was which plow driver made this report? I did not ask you what plow driver, not one piece. I asked you what the safety concerns were on the road and could I see a twist? So I think we'll have to disagree, we'll have to agree to disagree, but in this case, to follow up on what Mike just said, we're encouraging you, you're more than welcome to reach out to me. DJ Riley has spoken to me a number of times since the road visit. He's also been in communication with our superintendent for highway. So there is an avenue to continue to share information, to continue to try to discuss your issue independently, not just in the group setting like here today or independently when the select board members went to your road. So I think we're encouraging you to continue the conversation, which is why the process has this wait period as opposed to just making a decision right then and there. Diana Darian from Jackson Road. I have to tell you when I got the letter, I was just like blown out, okay? I've lived in Vermont eight years, came from Texas where there's no snow. I learned to drive on snowy roads. I have no problem at all for my Malibu front wheel drive getting up Jackson Road at all. I think in two years, in two and a half years that we've lived there, I've only had twice that I didn't go up it and it was simply because there was a foot and a half of snow on my road and I was told by the snow plow driver that they were only allowed to plow it twice a day during a storm. So Niel is to say I had to park it in Randolph and eventually they plowed it out and I got up the road. I do not understand where we are on a class three road right at the moment and you had concerns about water on the road and leaking ditches and whatever. So if the culverts are broken or replaced is that not your responsibility to repair that on the road so that we don't have water running over the road instead of through the culverts and down the ditch on the side? In your case, the source of the water is the homeowner's property. We don't have the right to put any culverts in up there. It's the water is the sides of it's right at the top where the street house, the driveway to the right on both sides of that road on that site is it was washed out from water coming down from those properties on both sides. You have no permission to put a culvert in it. Yeah, we're not putting culverts in it. It's not ours. The problem is on your section, our right of way ends at the intersection of the two driveways and Jackson Drive. We plow that during the winter. We plow the top because that's how we get the snow out the end and it goes over the bank. If there's concerns about from the snow plow driver which I don't really get because it's been safe for 70 years, no accidents on that road. And they only grade it maybe once or twice a year. So there's very little. I really don't understand that you can sit up and tell me it's safety concerns all you want to. I'm thinking it's financial because all I keep hearing is how much it would cost to bring these roads up to standard. What I want to know is what are you going to do about my taxes when I can't sell my house when I decide to retire and move to Florida? Because I live on a class four road. I have no means or ways to maintain that road. The culverts or snow plow it. Otherwise you'll maintain in sanding, salting. We pay all of these taxes to town, state, county. The only benefit we have is that road and it's less than two city blocks long. We only live 0.9 miles outside what I consider Randolph when it goes from School Street to Thayer Brook Road. There are roads which worse than ours. Look at Mount Streets. You can't tell me that's not a safety concern. It's got a drop off clip. What did you do? You put a guardrail on it. I'm sure fuzzy would be more than happy for you to put in a culvert or find a way to divert the water because he has a culvert under there. But there's not much you can do when you get all this snow milked off the top of the mountain and it runs off the side where there is no drain. It doesn't wash the road out except on that very edge. And that's because they don't come in and fill it in. There's a drop off. Why don't you make it safe? Put a guardrail in. I don't have any trouble driving up that road. That road is the only benefit that we have by living in this area.  It was quiet. Randolph has a wonderful reputation. Jim works in Randolph. I work in Montpelier. I drive 60 miles a day. When before we moved to Randolph, I drove four miles to work. We love Randolph. We love the community. We support this community by, we go to the restaurants. We buy our groceries here. We go to the lumber yard. We patronize all of these businesses. And when I get a letter in the mail threatening me that you're gonna turn my road into a class four road, there ain't nothing in that letter to talk about fact finding. There was nothing in there about that. This was, we're considering turning your road into class four. Well, guess what? My property value, which we got told was not true. That the property value on the house would go down. You can't tell me changing that road to a four making it responsibility of three property owners to maintain that road will not decrease my property value when I go to sell that house. When I get ready to retire and move to Florida. Well, maybe Colorado. But the thing is, is that this is just not an appropriate way. The letter could have been worded differently if you were on a fact finding mission. It could have been approached to the landowners. I am willing to let you bulldoze my little fence down and make a turnaround right there at the top of Jackson Road. Totally willing. Why would a property line for a road for the county stop right at the top? Okay, so he's gonna plow up to there.  Three driveways to turn around in. If a logging truck with a long bed can turn around in there and a UPS truck and cattle truck, I know that a plow truck, maybe you should invest a little bit more into training your plow truck drivers than worrying about. So just real quick, I've heard the logging truck thing a couple of times. One thing you guys are not considering is it's ground clearance of a plow off the ground compared to a logging truck. It is much different. It's much different to ground clearance here.  And you know, I actually went down the other day in the town garage to look at the mass of a plow truck because when I was doing the investigation, the walk around, I didn't have an appreciation of what those sizes those are. So it's not just a length you're dealing with. It's a length puts a clearance of that plow. So any sort of significant change in the grade, right, is gonna get that plow stuck and hung up. Then when you add the snow banks to that as well, the turning radius is decreased because of the plow has to clear those snow banks. Plus the wing that's hanging off there. So it's not just a length of a truck. It's more than willing to allow you to tear down the fence. The little fence there. It could be a solution. And make a turn around. So why is it in town buying snow cleaning equipment that won't work on the roads that you've had to maintain for the last 50 to 70 or 100 years? I've been told that part of the safety reason is because we keep spending money on fancy or bigger or quicker or whatever equipment. And now it's creating a safety concern on roads that have been safely maintained for years. Because you change that equipment and spend our tax money on something fancy or bigger and it doesn't work anymore. Because you didn't upgrade the roads to go along with the upgrade of the equipment. What are you gonna do to get fire trucks out to all of our houses if there's an issue? All they can do. I'm just wondering how it sounds like we need to be proactive and approach you to figure out solutions and the costs there and how much time do I need to give you to come up with the list of improvements and what they're gonna cost. So I can come talk to you and on his open channel communication we had and discuss it and see what we can do about it. When, because it's gotta happen within 30 to 60 days. So how should I, like you're not gonna be ready tomorrow but maybe next week, next Tuesday. I don't know, what's the process? Because that's really what I wanna know is what the process is to get it fixed not change the classification. So what your next step is is to look at what the concerns were when they did the site visit and from the driver feedback and then sit down with probably a double bill from highway. So you have the list already? What's this? What the concerns are and what exactly needs to be done because that all got hatched out of the site visitor when they were able to do that. We looked at it as far as, you know, you gotta remember you're dealing with a volunteer board here. We're not licensed engineers, we're not. But these decisions are being made that way. So I'll be honest, I haven't had time to type on my notes to send them out for you. And you went to check out a cloud truck so you can determine whether to turn around at the bottom of my row, you know. I mean, based on the driver and his feedback, I get it. But, you know. So that's your next step. So then you sit down and say, this is kind of what we gotta do. How do we do it? And that works best on site. How long, when are you gonna be ready to do that? Yeah, yeah. Do you have 17 landowners here that wanna make a date because you got a work schedule, right? Yeah. So it's gotta work around that and. So I'm just, you know. Me too. Do you have any paint for a little bit? Yeah. When are you gonna be ready with the, I mean, this magical list of things that need to be done so that it doesn't get clicked, you know. The classification has changed. Where is it? When is it gonna be ready? What are the costs associated with that? Can we take them on? You know, I have a tractor, I have a back go. I can put it on a culvert. I've done it for 22 years. So. I think he's saying what, if no one's asking for a specific date, but all, we all have questions. No, I'm saying like, okay, tonight we're gonna say on this date, what I'm saying is we all have a lot of questions that you guys might need to do more research or need to talk about. You can't give us the answers tonight. So I think what he's saying is if we all come into your office tomorrow, you're not gonna have any more answers. So you don't have another select board meeting until next month. And then that's gonna be 30 days. This won't be on the agenda for next month. We don't have to close this here. Right, so I guess what he's just asking is when can we expect to come in and be able to talk to you guys to try to negotiate or try to get answers to some of our questions if you guys don't meet for another month? So your conversation is not gonna be with us. It's gonna be with them. So you can make the appointment tomorrow for the end of the week. So, we'll have to all follow what you're doing at the highway department. So you will be meeting with the rest of the select board because these guys are the ones that are gonna vote correct on it. But if, when, so you will meet with these guys to discuss all of the things that we're bringing up so that you can answer the questions so you're gonna just come up with the answers without, you know, collaboration with the select board and then they make the decision.  And I guess I'm asking, how will you be able to answer all of the questions? When will you be ready to answer a lot of the issues that have been brought up to you? Right, so I would suggest not waiting for a full list to be given to you. Scheduled at times to speak with me and then I could also bring in our highway superintendent or highway staff who are not opposed to going back out to looking at the property and seeing exactly, you know, what you're seeing. We could then bring measurements and see the length of the truck and the turnarounds. That we can do, absolutely. So that's a part of the process of gathering data and gathering information. I would not be able to meet with the board without warning a meeting. So the information will be shared with the board members individually. And when it comes down to an actual decision, much later on when the board decides it's ready to make a decision, that will be warned and it will be put on the agenda and never will be notified. But up until that point, by that point, the idea is we've had multiple conversations. We could have potentially have been to your property two, three, four different more times, taken measurements and seen exactly what the issues are and shared them with you again. So my next question, I guess, would be when we come in to see you with issues and trying to negotiate or figure it out, then you will take notes and then pass that on to these guys? What you're doing is you're working on that plan. We took some measurements and took them on there and proposed them. So we could come up with a list of improvements that would be made. The polling board has to say, yes, we're willing to do that or no, we're not willing to do that. Can I ask you a question? So I'm sorry, just real quick. Bill, I can't see you back here. He's hiding. Yeah, so Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you told me 150 feet for a turnaround for those trucks. 150 feet, is that what you told me for the turnaround on that truck? No. That's right, I told you, yeah. That's a chill one, there, okay. Okay, I gotta talk. The road's only 150 feet long. No! So that's on the largest truck, it's 50 feet from the back of the truck to the front of the plow on the largest truck, and that's the number that came. Right, so you swing the turn radius on the plow into something like three times that. And that was the biggest plow. That was like specific to the road we were on. That's on the big truck, yeah. So that's sort of, that was a question I asked him over 150, because I didn't know which plows to do. But to be clear, the question was asked specifically at a location they were at. In relation to the truck that was used to plow that route. It doesn't mean that's the truck that's used on your route. What's, what the question was was on a site location, what's the distance you need for the truck that operates and plows this route? So each of the sites I visited, we recorded which truck plows that, right? Whether it's a pickup truck or the medium one or the big one, I don't know. Were there changes to those trucks in the last year, two years, three years? I can't answer that. A change to the truck may be a solution to. Well, when did we buy the six wheel trucks that we've been plowing with for 100 years? I mean, when did we get these huge trucks that suddenly we can't plow our own roads with? Who bought them, who made that decision? How much does it cost to keep them instead of a 10 of a six wheel truck? How much, we need bigger garages, we need bigger chains, they cost more. It's all about efficiency, you know. I mean, they've had to do what they've had to do. I've had to grow up and get bigger and bigger. It's all about efficiency to get around. So that's why they're as big as they are. Does it become efficient if you can't use it? Well, unfortunately, I mean, there's yards we get into with our trucks that they were used to the small single actual trucks that backed into their yards. And your roads have all been adapted over time to that smallness and having increased in size to adapt to the size of the smaller equipment. So if they're clenched, rewinding them. Yeah, who's clenched? Miss, no, this is your truck that only stays. He's stuck in that one, so that's different. He can't stay in the same size, it's just a connoisseur. That's not a fair statement. You know, it's just we're driven by that. Barred transport. Hey, folks, one conversation, please. I only have one last question about, can somebody tell me if these complaints from the snow plow drivers came last winter? Why are we just now, this winter, close, hearing about it, to where if this decision is made, it's going to be made in the middle of winter, to where all of a sudden we're going to be slapped with this huge expense. So why is it now that this subject has come up when it could have actually come up in the spring, to where all of these discussions could have happened, all of these decisions could have been made, and then we'd have been prepared, as property owners, to get mad earlier. We'd have had time, we'd have had time. Now it's like, rush, rush, rush. It's going to be changed. This is like a deliberate act of the department. How are you feeling about the busking press to take on another road tonight? Well, you know, that's why. That's why it shimings everything, isn't it? We're not going to have done anything. How many roads are you down to this street now? We've got three more. So any more comments on Jackson to keep it moving? No? Tilton Road? Jennifer Covey on Tilton Road. I think they have another one. Actually, do you guys have one more, Jackson? Welcome back. I live on Jackson Road. That guy right there passed the road. You ever had a problem turning around at the top? No. I didn't think so. Anybody's got a problem turning around at the top? There shouldn't be in a truck. In a truck. Now, I've got a question. There you go, Tilton. Well, sir, I was just saying, you was at my party. Something about driving a truck. The state gives you money towards the bottom of the tree. No. We don't get paid for the plowing by the state. That's a town responsibility. That's our taxes. Well, why are you worrying about the state? You've got to get back to the state myself. In compliance with the state, he's asking. What the? To get the money from the state. I think he's asking. What's this money he's got to help get from the state? The state of Vermont has, the legislature approves money every year for the state to pass down to towns. And you get so much per mile of class of road. So that comes to help with some of the major taxes and whatnot. But it doesn't, on class three roads, it doesn't cover everything. Why didn't they tell Montpel you to keep that money? And like this gentleman said, they overhauled our roads ourselves and plowed and maintained them. And get reduced taxes. It doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. I think you're mixing two things up. That's to help with culvert replacement and items like that. And it's not a lot for that. Tilton Road? So Jennifer told me of Tilton Road. I have a letter, which I won't read because a lot of it has been covered this evening. But the upshot is that like the other farms in this situation, we're not just talking about our homes. We're talking about business owners. And we purchased our farm where we did specifically because it fit the business plan that we were working at, that we were developing. It's essential having year-round access, stable year-round access to our farm is key to our business. And we're a new business. And so we don't have a lot of extra money to be able to put into investing in the road itself. And that was something that was factored into our business plan as well, was that this is close to the Amtrak Station, technically in the village district, not downtown district, but the village itself. And I also want to say that within about two weeks, we bought the farm. We moved from East Randolph and bought the farm in July. And within two weeks of owning the farm, the road crew came up. And they were just doing like a check through. They were great. They pushed back the foliage, not the foliage, but they pushed back the trees. They did a beautiful job with the road. And we had a great conversation about making sure that the turnaround was easy. The turnaround up there is huge because there's nothing else. We even took the barn down. The turnaround is gigantic at this point to make sure that our personal cars were parked separate for any storm events. We've always made that happen as well. And it seemed exceedingly proactive. And the town has done an amazing job of our road. We have school buses that come up. We host school groups. The Cacelas runs two trucks up to our hill. And they both can be in our yard at the same time because now they're on the same route for us. So not only do we need access, but we have had access. And the town has been fantastic with that. As I understand it, only third hand, since you guys had a conversation and I haven't been involved in yet. Our road is steep. We've always known that, of course. And there is a sharp turn where it's not that sharp, actually. But there is a turn where occasionally folks have slipped a little bit. But there's a real question as to whether that is a safety concern when it's banked there and it's essentially an emergency road runoff. It was flat right there on that corner. So it's a real question as to whether that is a safety concern or whether it is really a financial decision on the part of the town. And it would be really terrific if the town would actually own up that that is not a safety concern that would call it what it is. Do you think you would have bought your property at the end of that road if it wasn't a town road, knowing that that was a cost that you would have to incur? Given that the farm property that we purchased has exceedingly poor soils and a very heavy lift and was not able, it's not ever able to be part of a land trust judgment. We do have it in current use now for forestry. But it is not able to be in any of the other offset programs that help farmers. We bought it at full value. And we have to both work full time to keep them mortgaged. So we're building the business outside of that. So I guess the upshot is I don't think that we would have bought that. We actually bought a farm property instead of a town property because we wanted to grow our farm. So we would have bought a property in town if we'd not been able to make that work. And an essential part of making that work was having year round taxes. And I want to say the town has done an amazing job. It's very quick.  They turn. They go down. We're good. We wave. They wave. It's a very positive experience. So thank you guys. So Chris Sargent. I'm also on Toulton Road. Same property. Same property. Imagine that. Same household. So I just want to point out that this is not an obligatory process. This is not that the select board is obligated to do anything that they're doing right now. I mean, I understand why you're doing it. I'm not saying I don't. And again, I appreciate you folks for volunteering to be on the select board. It's a thankless job. And I appreciate that. And the road crew does a great job. Robert has always been very easy to deal with. And I do my best to not ask much of the road crew because they have other responsibilities and other roads. That said, I know that the curve is a concern. I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, but the turnaround was not a concern, right? I think the comment that I took note of was turn around was a concern when the vehicles were there. I think there were some challenges with the vehicles. I guess I would need to talk to Robert about that. I mean, I have a picture of two Castella trucks parked in an L shape at the top of that driveway. So there's plenty of room for the trucks to back around. That's never been a problem. Maybe they were there. And even with all our cars there. Because specifically, because Robert told us we needed to keep them out of the way, we were like, absolutely. It works pretty good. But I have, in fact, seen a truck or two off the road on our road. However, they're not always in the same place. The last time the truck went off the road, it was up at the top in the ditch. That's not because of the curve. On the left hand side, towards the house. On the front yard of my house. And that's an issue of, I don't know whether that's driver error or whether it just someone got, the plow got pulled, and it pulled them into the ditch. But they wound up in the ditch there, and it's not that steep at that part. So my point is, is that I can't argue with the trucks going off the road. But she's right. It's reasonably flat down at the bottom. So there's no life safety issues. Is it an inconvenience, or if the truck has to get pulled out of her hand again? Yes, obviously. I'm more than happy to talk to the town about whether we can come to some compromise that works out for everybody. But it's a little bit of a concern that there's no clear definition of what safety is, and that there's no standard by which we are making a decision. Because really, when you make a decision, you should have some sort of standards to make it by. That way you guys can easily defend your decision in case people question. Any more for Tilton Road? Clay White Road? No, sir. Go ahead. Well, I visited. I'm not on the end of that end road. Well, I visited commerce, and I visited TJ's, and I visited Tim's. My main interest there is the fire department, and that we have dry hydrants there, and they're the only water source in the area, especially the one at Tim's. There's our only water source up there. Sir, which one's Tim's? Number one, Clay White. Clay White, thank you. I'm addressing all of them on my own personal opinions. I just didn't know who Tim was on which road. Anyways, I don't agree to pause in any of these roads or reclassifying any of them personally. That's my personal opinion. I wouldn't reclassify any of them. I come to a solution, like these gentlemen who asked to improve the turnaround if necessary, to turn the truck around in a different direction, like from clockwise to counterclockwise or vice versa. I'd also suggest that on some of these turnarounds, these trucks are equipped with a positive manual traction system, can be controlled by the driver. He can lock up all six wheels, or he can lock them independently. On some of these turnarounds, I would suggest that those manual switches be turned off while it's being executed, because these manual switches will tend to drive the truck straight off the road. I know for a fact. As for these driveways and being able to turn around, I worked for the turnaround bar years ago. We had the biggest truck that the town had at that time, a four-wheel drive with a feed-away. I plowed every one of these driveways, and I never had any issue. I can turn around on any end of clay white. The other thing that I've come to realize here, you're talking about closing and reclassifying the best end of clay white. You're leaving the steepest, most dangerous part wide open. Hello. I mean. But in reclassifying them, I think you're taking away your safety issue.  That's what I'm thinking about. And I'm sure that there's been suggestions made. And if you work together, you can make a turnaround little work. The town dumps thousands of yards of dirt over the bank every year from cleaning ditches. If over two or three years you took some of this material to some of these locations, you'd have a better turnaround than you've ever dreamed of. You might not plus a gravel on top of it that way, but I don't know. If you talk about safety, you know, technically these roads that's so dangerous when it storms, they shouldn't even leave the garage. It's too dangerous. But if they don't, nobody else is going to get there either. You don't have to buy any different chains for the bigger trucks. They all take the same size tires. Anyway, those are some of my comments. Real estate values? Yeah, I think it would affect the real estate values. Without a doubt. Ted Fred Drive, I was working for the town when we built that drive. And why did you build it? I'm just curious the history of why that was built. Or do I not want to know? You don't want to know? No. Thank you. Because at that point in time, we wanted a little bit more of that property to widen the Chelsea road. It was agreed between the town manager that we would fix his driveway up and we'd maintain that. Was the town manager? Who was the town manager? No, I just mean, was it the people? I think we have not mentioned his name. What I'm asking was that the person on Ted Fred or the town manager just wanted to widen Chelsea so they wanted to work on Ted Fred's road. The town general wanted to widen Chelsea. The town manager agreed to maintain his driveway for the use of his property. OK. That's slippery. Slow. That's slippery. Where are you going, Maggie? Hey, folks, can we keep the conversation going on? We need to keep this. We have a whole select word agenda after this open. So any more comments on? Oh, Kevin would like to speak. Let Kevin speak first. Kevin Taylor, I'm Chief of East Randolph Fire Department. Brand new. I agree with lots of the things that people over on our side of the hill said tonight. I agree with a whole lot of them. The only one that I am prepared to speak on, of course, is the Clay White Hill Access. The angels maintain the only water on that hill. They keep the hydrogen open here around so we can get in there. And that is the only attack water we have. There are 16 residents that are serviced by that. That one water supply alone, admittedly, is not enough. We all have to have and we have plans for something like that. But just a few minutes makes a huge difference in the fire. Huge difference. So I know they're on the end of a road. There's a lot of things that you have to think about, but there's a lot of places up there that are benefited by that water supply, which they keep open. And it is we maintain it, we flush the hydrogen, we make sure it works fine, and all that stuff several times a year. But that one, I feel, is strongly, is very important to keep accessible for us. The steepest part of the hill is before that section. Absolutely. When it's not, the whole road is a mess in the winter time. But that few minutes could make a huge difference when it needed to. So I hate to have to be part of that if it went the wrong way. But have that be a fact or something like that. It would be just cared in my opinion. So that's it. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Yeah. Like a mad angel, huh? Well, I'm part owner and work on Clay White. I guess maybe we can talk a bit with this like in the site visit.  We have a dairy farm up there that relies heavily on truck traffic to do what we do. And you know, I mean, it would be a burden to have to maintain the road ourselves, sure. But the biggest trouble we see is like Greg was talking about, he has to get more efficient as a milk hauler. And thank God he's a good one and that our co-op is really good, but there are some other neighbors in neighboring farms in other towns that have been shut off from the milk supply because their road wasn't good enough for a milk truck. So it would really be, I mean, put it out of business if you declassified our road because eventually the milk haulers would be looking to do the same kind of thing we're doing here, pick off the easy fruit and get rid of some headaches. And we'd be the first ones to go.  Yeah, we've talked with the road foreman. He seems to think that we can just rework our turnaround a little bit, keep the cars out of the way, and we should be good to go. So hopefully that's a workable solution for you. You guys have done an excellent job on our road in the last two years. I mean, rebuilt the whole bottom end. You've replaced the big culvert on our end. You've hardpacked the whole thing. I would like to work with you to fix the little turnaround on our end so it's not a parting gift. That's all I've got to say about it. Probably should. I'm Tim Agil. That farm has been in Janet's family for well over 200 years. And it would be a shame to have it go by the wayside because the town threw the road up. It's probably one of the earliest roads in the town since just down on the 14s where the first settlers were in Randolph. The other thing that concerns me, I'm chief of Randolph Center Fire Department. And it's certainly going to hurt fire protection on all these roads because they won't be as well maintained. And we won't be able to get down this road. I really think that should be taken into consideration also.  We have town road 70. Brenda Squire, my family, I'm kind of here on behalf of my mom. She's 80 years old. She still lives there. It's the only place she's ever lived since she married my father. The town road has been in my family since 1940. There is one other abutting landowner I have since talked to them at the site visit. I had not been able to speak to them. I since have. He has agreed that people can use his upper drive as a turnaround, which it was done in the past. He doesn't have any issues about that. He has given his least verbal permission. I don't know anything has to be in writing or not. Our little section of the road is off Skeetow Road. There's a Y in the road. Our two homes are the only two on that little section. I mean, it's not very long. They've always plowed it partway up and then kind of backed around up there and then originally came down. Lately, it's been more spotty. They felt they had to back out, I guess. I was not told specifically what the safety issue was with that little stretch. The other part of the road is always maintained, you know, with the big truck and this and that. Sometimes we get the big truck. Sometimes we get a small truck. So I don't know how, you know, why that's necessarily being done if that's the driver issue or if that's what. So we were not exactly told what the safety issue was, but I think we have a solution where if they can do the turnaround at the top, they should be able to drive back down out instead of feeling they have to back out. And I, you know, I think we can burp something out. I don't know if there's anything more that you guys can tell me. I was at the site visit. We had this discussion. And the only additional information I have was that I would, because of my mom's age, I would like her to have access to fire and ambulance and things like that, you know. And if they can maintain, we are a class three road presently, I think we should have the same type of maintenance as the main part of the road has.  So if there's any safety issues that, and we have not been told what it was, we, I think we can deal with that. And I'd like to hope that we could. So the two notes that I took there, one was the turnaround, the second was that Culvert, very narrow at the bottom. Well, we have always been told that because it was a class three road, the town should be maintaining that Culvert. Yeah, I'm just communicating what we know. And we have been verbally big told by different people and drivers. And just in general conversation that it would be done, just never happened. I think it just, the Culvert itself is fine. It just needs to be maybe reset. And even as earlier this year, they said they were gonna do it, but nobody has done it or approached us to talk to us further about. So I mean, I think it's solutions that can be fixed. Because people, I mean, they've always plowed straight back through from the other road. They don't do that now. So I mean, I don't know how much of that is individual drivers making that decision versus what should be done. And I mean, I think there's solutions that can happen there. So when you say plowed back through the other road, they came from the ski tow side and plowed straight up, is that what you mean? Well, they used to go up over the hill the other way and they had to turn around, they come back down the hill and come straight up through our little section, back around and come out. Now they just come back down the other way and go poof, way back up. And sometimes they don't, that's why sometimes they do it with a big truck. Sometimes the small truck comes. There's been no consistency in how it's been plowed. And I'll be honest, there's a couple of times I've had to call and say, well, hasn't anybody been here? I'm not saying that's happened often, but that is something that we have had to do on occasion. But I mean, we'd like to be able to work with people and find a solution. And my main concern, like I said is, we make sure that it is a safe situation for I'm sure there's a lot of other elderly people on some of these roads and that I take to see them lose their services and things like that. That is the end of the list. Braylee's right about to mention, I knew we were on the original list. We were on the original list. This is the list we had the hearing on. Thanks. But I was here in part because Braylee was on the original list and we're a road served by, we're on a road that served off of Braylee Road, so we're not on one house road. We were a little concerned that one house road was the title given because it made us wonder what was going on. So I first want to say I've actually been really happy. You've helped me. I've sent two thank you letters to the town because the services we've gotten on our road, which is not easy, Braylee Cover Bridge and Steep Down to the Bridge has been great and so thank you. And thank you for what you've done. The question I have though is, if a road is a town road and people live on it, is there an obligation for the town to make provision to maintain it in a safe and navigable state? And if it fails to do so, should that be the fault of the landowner? Can they get anybody to say and it's falling down their skull in this? I'm not sure where that's coming from. The reason I bring up the question is because if the roads are reclassified to class four, the burden of maintenance falls on the landowners and the realtors do seem to agree that you're going to see a 10 to 20% effect on those properties on the grand list. So I did a rough calculation that suggested that 17 times approximately $6,000 to $8,000 per property take 10% starts to impact our towns. And I know you've said over and over again, it's about safety, but that caused me to come back to safety because I thought, well, all right, our road crews, who again I adore have access to the best safety equipment that we can get them and we do not. And our ambulance trucks are not professional road clearers. They're ambulance drivers and our fire crews are not professional road killers. Although, thank God you have been. And you have some pretty telling things to say. And I've driven the rigs that Greg is talking about. I know what happened. Right. The only thing I didn't remember to tell you was they asked if anybody had ever pulled any trucks out on their road. Well, I don't have a dead-end road, but I pulled them town trucks back out into the road. Yeah, yeah. And it's a straight road. They are not supposed to go up. Right. And that led me to the last point, which is, so your safety and the safety of your crews and your safety and the safety of your crews is important because if one of your trucks goes off the road because you're trying to reach me. That is a huge problem. Because now you can't get to the next problem. Now I can't get to you, the road is blocked, and it makes a situation that much worse. I'm not really concerned. My concern is this. What I don't see is a process that gave sufficient consideration to the fall-on effects of declassification. And I would like, as a citizen of the town, to see the sort of cascading safety issues looked at. And to also see whether there is a pattern of trucks going off the road that's mapped to drivers, so maybe a driver needs more training, to a particular style of road maintenance. Are we doing the most best and most efficient job of maintaining our roads so that we could prevent these problems rather than causing a giant hearing where we're all emotional and cost the town its goodwill. So I appreciate, again, our road crews, because you guys have a really tough job.  But we're just on one of the few historic cover bridges, but they're part of our heritage. And they end up just having to be done. That's why our road came off the list in part. So I guess I'd like to see if, when the reports come out, make a special request for the select board and to the town manager to review the cascade effects of, OK, so we want the road crews to be safe legitimately. That's the legitimate thing. But we also want the fire crews to be safe and their equipment to be safe, and the ambulance drivers to be safe, and their community to be safe, and us as citizens to be safe. And I don't feel like I really, I didn't get the feeling that this process really looked at that thoroughly. And I'm just making a request to cover it. I don't even want to be telling it. Great. You need to identify all the things we need to fix. I feel like it's a full time volunteer job. Yeah. So you have a town manager who can do that. You have a town manager who can do that. That's not what we were talking about, though. Thank you. So any more input on the roads themselves tonight? So from here, it's making connection with Adolfo to look at options, what, if a plan can be made, to then be presented with the other's information to the select board to make a decision. Adolfo's in tomorrow. Even if it's a snowy day he's in, because he won't die. Every day. I can share my telephone number with everyone who's interested in. Before you leave, I'm also more than willing to go upstairs and hand business cards out. But if you have a pencil or a pen, I can share my number with you now. Those of you that already have it, you already have it. If you don't, the number is 728-5333, extension 20. Is there going to be a list of names of people that were at this meeting? Yeah, it'll be in the board minutes. So if you wanted to contact other people. Make sure you sign in at the table. Then there will be. Excuse me. I'm still a little unblocked. When you said decision, is that like that decision, or is it a decision about how things are going to be fixed? It'll be all, what we'll do is we'll take each road one by one, and it'll be a decision of if it stays class three, this is what needs to happen to do it. So this is going to be whether it's class three or class four, that's more of a decision. In some cases, actually some of the people when we went, they said, please throw it up. We'd love to have you throw it up and not have it be part of the town roads anymore. So that's the other end of the spectrum of what we've got. So what the decision will be, if it's going to stay class three, this is what needs to happen. And according to how the plans come together, or if it goes to class four, or in some cases, it may be part of the road stays class three, part of it goes class four, or part of it's thrown up, part of it's class three, that's the decision being permit. The question was raised, are you going to leave this hearing open and continue it at a later date, or are you closing it tonight? We're closing it tonight. OK. Jenny, can I ask a question? Sure. If the roads get thrown up midwinter, is the town in any position to defer stopping the town has the choice to say, OK, we'll continue to apply your road through this winter, and then after that, we're not going to do it. It's kind of an undue burden to put on taxpayers to suddenly be like, sorry, we stopped. Because it is the town, it was the time things were warned and everything, the timing is not exceptional. And that's on the town. I know that it started with Mel, but the bottom line is that if it's been talked about in the spring. That's part of the decision that can be made when we get there. Great. Will we be officially notified when we're going to vote on these? Yep. I'll call you, Tim. Is the vote going to be a public hearing? It's official. Yeah. If you mailed it to all landowners on the road, your brother is not going to know if it's going to. If he's below where we're considering, he wouldn't have. He's right at the point. He isn't. He should go. But he's right at that line. So it was. Yeah, whether he's on the lower. OK. He's in a little bit of that.  In other words, it's often other than the class. I don't think you're here to solve the problem. Unfortunately, tonight, said there's a little evidence that's going to be a public hearing. But it's not going to be a public hearing. Yeah. Folks, we're still doing business. And our media is still. In other words, the law is here to say that there is one secret, but there is no secret. Hey, folks, we can keep continuing business. Can you take your conversation upstairs? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Well Oh. Well. No. No. No. Yes. Has it gotten good yet? Yes. I'll follow him then. They know what they're doing. The discussion of whether the town took place to plan it or it becomes part of what we'll look at in the, at that meeting. But it's something that will be So we're going to move into the regular select board agenda now, and first on the list is public comment, which is a chance to briefly bring a topic up to try to get the select board to put it on a future agenda. It's not to hash the whole thing out just for fair warning. I'm here for the library board of trustees. I just want to clarify some issues from your last meeting. I saw the tape and I read your minutes. We all did. And so there's some things that need to be corrected for the record. First of all, the library trustees have always been willing to put money into it. There's no issue there from us. In fact, we have a request and a gift which will more than cover the cost of the lift itself. But in addition to that, you have some ADA issues with the bathroom. The library trustees already agreed to pay all of that. They're not asking the town for any money at all. We have an annual fundraiser. It's a big one. We've got letters coming out shortly. Every trustee writes personal notes and notes. It's a big deal. The lift, by the way, must be replaced. We cannot operate a public building, ADA accessible, without it. It is not repairable. It's 10 years past used by date. Parts are no longer available. We heard that part. So we absolutely must replace it. So we're going to do it. It is, somebody has mistaken, it is not used a couple of times a year. Even if it were, it would have to be replaced. But it's used a couple of times a day. And I was there yesterday when it was being used. It is horrendously loud. And it sounds like it's not the latest. It has to be there. What did I forget? I think you're okay. The $500 was the beginning of an accessibility grant process that you had brought to us, and also that we were willing to investigate. I think that when you go into things like that, it's a bit of a dance. You decide, you do the beginning part, the $500 match is about you figure out what the issues are, and then you come back and say, okay, the trustee said money for this, and the town has money for this. Who's going to pay for how much? And we didn't even got into that place yet because we haven't even applied for the grant. So that's a piece. The philosophical part for me is that the library is a public building. And so people, patrons of the library, who have movement challenges, deserve to be able to use the library, the facilities of the library with independence and with dignity. Not being able to use the bathroom and not being able as an adult to get up to where the adult part of the collection is, does not meet my definition of independence and dignity. We have to be able to, and in fact the trustee is committed to repairing the library whether or not we went for the accessibility grant. So I'm confused now. So I heard that it can't be repaired, then I'm hearing now that it's replaced. To replace, I'm sorry. And do we have something from a lift company in Elevator Company that says this can't be replaced? Yes, sir. We have the parks are no longer available. It's been repaired a number of times and the parks are no longer available. It's 10 years past. Well, the information came last time, there was no answer to that. There was no, right? Yes. So I think, I mean, per the action, or per the meeting minutes, it was asked that, you know, what is the cost for, you know, can it be replaced? Is anybody looking, power place repaired? Is anybody looking to that? So that was unknown information, right? In fact, yeah. And in fact, it's, yeah, it just isn't, it just cannot be repaired anymore. You do need a place. So the, the library trustees are have the money to replace the lift. Okay. You told me I could come back here. Yeah, I love that. Going back again. Let me send you on some other avenues. Yeah, the other piece that was mentioned, you know, when you talk about big renovations on public buildings, you do often talk about, the town owns the library, you know, and so we act, we understand that this is an odd arrangement in terms to have a board of trustees that's in charge of spending money and maintaining a facility of what is essentially a department of the town. We get that, you know, that, that it makes sense. I know there's a huge disconnect every time we sit down to talk about the changes because our budgeting and our spending is done completely differently. But when you mentioned capital, I think it was you that mentioned, couldn't we do a capital campaign that would have to be done in concert with the town because it is a town facility. It's, it's not a thing that the trustees could just decide that we were going to do all by ourselves. There would have to be some kind of participation on the part of the governance of the town. So, so we do, because we manage our investments carefully, our investment money that we get through fundraising and through requests really carefully, the money to do the necessary repairs is there. If we decide to do the accessibility grant, which is what triggered the bathroom conversation, then I think, you know, based on the information that we get when we come back to you and say, okay, how do you want to do this?  I think that was, those were the, those, that was the update that we wanted to make. You know, it's interesting, it was interesting to sit here and to listen to the concerns of the folks that live outside the village. And it makes me remember, as a taxpayer and a member of, you know, the Randolph community, that we always do better when we go back to people and say, I think you've got a problem. How can we work this out together? You know, that's what I heard from all those landowners was, was the, before you make this decision, come back and talk to us about how we can sort this out. On my land, on my property, in my space, to keep my family and my investment in this community safe. Thank you. So that was, thank you folks. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment? Approval of the agenda? Madam Chair, if I may ask the board to consider a slight change to the agenda. Very slight. Is it removing some stuff? No. Actually, yeah. Adding one item which is the consideration of an EV, electric vehicle charging station grant. We could add it either into the grant section if the board chooses or into the other business. This is old business, isn't it? We had this last month. We did. They were just coming back with a location. The trial. Would you defer old business? All right. Approval of the agenda? May I ask you a question? Is the meeting open-ended? I mean, do you go through the whole agenda when the rally gets? Oh, yeah. Not necessarily, but yes. Because I need to get home for bedtime. So do we. And, yeah, no, I mean, remember, let her see it or under new business. I'm just curious if there's any kind of sense of time frame or these top ones move quick. You should be pretty quick. Approval of the agenda? Thank you, motion. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Stained. Consent calendar and a motion to approve those. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Appointments to the Planning Commission. We have two that have expressed interest on the Planning Commission. Joel Tilburg and Sonny. Sonny's here. He's been involved. Quite a bit. Re-wrote the introduction to the Tom Plan. Came in with some nice photos. We have one seat open. Right. In this position expires March of next year. So we get you for more in a year, whoever gets on. Got a preference? I like the Sonny team. And that he's been involved? He's been involved, yeah. I mean, we've met a couple of times, Sonny, right? We've talked for a bit, so definitely for my year. Is that a motion? That's a motion. I'll second. Motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Stained. Carries. Stagecoach. Had a letter that was sent. Stagecoach is going to be unique. Put your letter somewhere here, Jim. In an interesting position, as you know, we had split their funding. So half of it was in the budget. Half of it was under special appropriations. Got some not so positive feedback that folks felt we were hiding money in the budget. So we went with the new policies, which was one place or the other, not both. If you want to risk it and go in both, then the board could not pay the money that's actually in the budget. So the recommendation that went to Stagecoach was to put the full 15,000 in one location or the other. They're fine with it. Going in special appropriations, what they're asking is that they not have to go out and get all the signatures because it's a changed amount since the money's in the budget now and we're the ones asking that the change be made. Anybody have a problem leaving the signatures for that? No. I'm going to second that motion. That we accept the change from the 7,500 to the 15,000 in the special appropriations. That goes into special appropriations without signatures being required. I thought when we wrote the policy that it was only a change in the special appropriations and not necessarily so that way if they wanted to change either the 7,500 or the 7,500, then they could lose one or the other. If they want the 15,000, if they leave it in both places, the board can choose not to pay out the money that's in the budget. They want the money paid out so they want to move all into special appropriations, but they don't want to have to get the signatures required to up the amount. So they're asking for a waiver of that. All right. I thought we left an open end in there about a change and not necessarily being there in general. Motion to the second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Thanks for driving all the way over here for our entertainment. Thanks. I'd like to see town government action. And I'll never run for select one. $500 a year doesn't encourage you. It is all about money making, isn't it? Yeah, something like that. Say nothing about the time. Next. Okay. I've never been to one of these meetings before. This has been very informative in a lot of ways. And you have a huge agenda still and there are other people in the room waiting. So I don't know how much time to expect or what to take. But I guess this is possibly then the beginning of a conversation. There's been a really interesting pattern, though, that I noticed in the public hearing about this, that I feel connects to the concerns that my husband and I are bringing to the select board about a gap of confidence between the town, the taxpayers of town, and the town, and how they feel about the town. The consideration of homeowners' investments and the fact that they live the quality of life and living safely. And the notion of the community relationship that came up, I feel, is definitely speaks to this, speaks to our concerns and the question of the lack of information being and communication being clear between a homeowner, taxpayer, and the town. I had mentioned and sent along the question of the water bill. And I think that's something I would come back and add that to a public comment section. But just as an illustration of all of these things, I had a water bill for the past five years. I had a bill that was billed in October with a billing due date of the 13th of November. And so my plan was to drop this off next week when that's a good time for me. And I had a billing date as of the 6th, saying that the due date was the 5th of November for this single. So that's my question about sort of clarity of information. I think some kind of serious gaps in the water billing. So, but the bigger concern is, and that's just an illustration of these kind of like just things not connecting, our big concern is with the Elm Street project, which we're all happy that that paving now is done and the sidewalks are wonderful and the road is much improved and that has been fantastic. And of course it was frustrating during the construction and the driving and that is not what this is about. That project resulted in direct impact on our home and mostly on the sewer system and the septic sewer condition in our house. This is a project that our house actually has never been on the sewer system that we've been paying for. The town was supposed to be maintaining a septic system that the town installed decades ago and apparently ceased maintaining somewhere around maybe 1985 to the point where the town had forgotten that this thing was even there. So that's just a little bit of history that we learned. So with the sewer project, and this was on the deed, that the town would be maintaining the sewer, the septic system until such time as the town could be, the house could be connected to a sewer system. So here, new sewer system, that seemed like that was the sensible thing to do. Hook up the house to the sewer system. Days after that was executed and completed, our house began to break. It's been stinking for a year and a half, well no, more than that, roughly a year and a half, all through last winter, through this past summer and now still, like virtually daily, especially now in the winter system. It emerged concurrent with this hook up of the sewer system. Our question was, this seems to be a problem with the hook up. We've been told, no it's not. It's not because of that thing that the town did at the same time as the stink began. We were told that we've taken measurements and there's no dangerous gases. Hooray, we're not all dead, but the house reeks. It smells like cooked cabbage and like old cooked cabbage almost daily. It's not a living condition that I would call an acceptable outcome of this project. We feel like we've been dismissed, like we're making this up, that it's not really a problem and we should, in the words we received, we should just all get past this. And to be told that when the system was not maintained while we were paying for a service that was not provided and I don't know how many homeowners even before, to be told that now it's just our problem and the town has, the town's kind of done and we need to figure it out and the town is going to stop investigating what's the potential cause of this unacceptable change to our living condition is unacceptable. And the communications about it have directed or have been sort of deflected to talking about this other thing in the house, which has been there since forever, a floor drain and we keep getting statements about the floor drain and the town had suggested that the floor drain was a possible source of the smell and that we could try blocking it permanently. We consider the floor drain a really helpful thing to have in the basement in case there's some kind of flooding and we have actually used that because during this project the hot water heater started to leak and we needed to get that water in there. So we kept it as a useful thing in our basement where we didn't really think it wasn't a convincing solution but that was the source of the smell so we didn't change it. So now all of our communication about this question of the smell, is this making sense? Are you following me? Okay. This question of the smell has been deflected to what are you, homeowner, going to do about the floor drain and it's even being called now any illegal floor drain which is also very interesting considering the town was illegally operating an unmaintained septic system for decades. Side note. And as opposed to saying again this question of how can we work together to actually investigate and determine what is the cause of this? So the lack of recognition of a potential responsibility the kind of cessation of cooperating and trying to find the solution to the problem and then the tenor, the tone of the communications we've been getting from the water department have been feeling like intimidation where we're just supposed to kind of shut up and stop asking inconvenient questions. That I think kind of sums it up. I would appreciate it if my feedback that I think I emailed to you about the water billing also be considered. I'll bring that up for public comment if that's necessary. But this concern that we as taxpayers are being kind