stay right there we're fine so I'm calling the stay eight inches away here we go I'm trying to remember I'm calling the March 11th 2020 Community Resources Committee meeting to order it is 831 a.m. we do have a quorum in the room even if you cannot see that on video so we may this may be get more popular on videos to not see anyone as we try to maintain social distance in this new era but we are on video so with that the before I get to the first item on our agenda I would like to welcome our new minute taker Lindsay who is off to the side but is here thank you and for her benefit can we all at the table introduce ourselves for this meeting so she knows who's talking when we talk let's start over here I'm Pat the Angeles and I am the chair Mandy Joe Haneke and the empty Steinberg Steve Schreiber and I will say I'll get to this later but I think we have two future members in the audience too and I'll get to this when we get to announcements but but those are Evan Ross and Shalini about milk you will see them in the meeting upcoming meetings with that we will move to general public comment is there any general public comment she shook her head she shook her head I saw it so that means we are moving on to action items since there is no general public comment the first action item in an abundance of caution was the election of a chair and vice chair the appointments for the committees were made effective next week so we are not doing that item until next week no they're not technically members too so they are not members till next Monday so we are cutting that out it will show up on next week's agenda that takes us to item B which is the transfer of outstanding CRC referrals to the town services and outreach committee we are doing a lot of housekeeping today so those members who are moving to town services and outreach in the room pay attention but we there will be a memo so there are three referrals I believe we need to transfer I will read them all and then we will take a motion and vote the first one is a request to adopt MGL chapter 90 section 17 C and 18 B which was referred to both the community resources committee and the transportation advisory committee on May 6th and the second is a proposal by archipelago investments and this for the spring street north parking side parking from boltwood avenue to Churchill Street which was referred to the community resources committee seeking a report from the council with updated conceptual drawings by November 18th so it's a little outdated but the we've been in contact with archipelago and they have been okay with us not addressing it recently we we have made sure that we are not falling behind on that one for in terms of their construction and so that was referred on September 9th 2019 and then the last one is a vote so the referral is the downtown parking study and memo from the downtown parking working group which was referred to the community resources committee seeking a report back to the town council on the priority recommendations of the downtown parking working group within 90 days but the whole study was referred and that was referred on November 18th the CRC did report back to the council on the priority recommendations so essentially the transfer of this one would be the full downtown parking study that sits in CRC right now for we're not sure exactly what purposes at this point but we're going to send it off to the trans the town services that now has public ways can I get a motion to transfer those three identified referrals to the town services and outreach committee I so move and then I have just a general comment to make with it okay so as do I have a second so Andy moved Pat seconded your comment Andy yeah I think that the one thing this is actually in particularly in reference to the first one because we had a very good presentation regarding the whole speed limit issue and the complexity of it that involved officer now Captain Tang of the police department and I think our ten engineer Jason skills and if there's if that's available on video or through the minutes I would encourage that that information be transferred to the committee sub for their benefit thank you for that so the plan is not just to transfer the referral I will add that onto the list there are some nice maps that have been created that we haven't actually seen because we haven't addressed it about where speed limits are and what they are in town so I was going to transfer a whole bunch of stuff along with this that says here's some documents to to go along with it but I will make sure I include any prior discussions that we have had and where those minutes and those minutes and then maybe links to the videos for those discussions specifically for speed limits but I think we've also had some discussions on Spring Street too so I will make sure I when I transfer them that I look all of that up and hand them as much information as possible so thank you for the reminder any other comments on this see none all those in favor of the vote the motion to transfer those three referrals to TSO raise your hand and say aye aye that is four zero with one absent and the absent member is Dorothy Pam for the purposes of our minute taker our next item of business then is the transmittal of the CRC process for advising council community impact review which we adopted on 2020 to 12 this is something that I put on here as a potential to transmit to TSO as a given giving them an option of it's something we've adopted when we're going to be looking at stuff although we have not used it yet I thought it could be helpful for the start of their discussions on stuff too so I thought we could potentially formally vote to say hey this might be helpful to you we've adopted it do what it do with it what you want but and so that's why this is on here and I would obviously transmit the whole document to them with a memo that says CRC has adopted it we have not used it so we don't know how well it works but it could be a starting point for reviews by town services and do I have a motion to transmit that process do I have a second second is there any discussion on the transmittal of this process anything you would like me to include in the memo is to potential uses or reasons or anything or no okay then all those in favor of transmitting that process raise your hand and say aye that is a 4 to 0 vote with one absent and it will be transmitted to when I and those are mostly our housekeeping measures which gives us leaves leads us to action item 3d the master plan update revisions and so I forgot to include I apologize Pat I just had discussion and feedback on current proposals I should have included report from our representative on that list so so Pat you were at you were at the last planning board meeting so can you tell us what the discussions they had that on their agenda can you just update us on what happened there right Christine best best up the planning director plans to go forward section by section with the master plan starting with land use she's currently reviewing and assembling information regarding plans and her actions completed ongoing or still undone since 2010 she's working with IT on the GIS system to gather information regarding land and conservation APR agricultural institutional commercial retail industrial residential development and development with mixed incomes etc she's reached out to department heads on town staff to let them know about the master plan update project and to seek help in gathering data and information about what the town has done and how it has changed in 10 years and she's the planning board chair is working with IT to establish a website to keep public in form the public informed about prod the project and seek input from the public on a regular basis and that's basically what happened so I'm correct am I correct in saying they didn't have any actual proposed revisions yet is there an estimate of time as to when the first proposed revisions might come out okay so there is no estimate of time there so good to know any questions welcome Dorothy it's doing us all in we just heard an update from Pat on the master plan the planning board discussion but I think you were in the room potentially so so at this point we don't have any proposed changes to look at or discuss or anything so with that unless there's any questions for Pat or Dorothy was also happened to be at the meeting we'll move on from this item that sounds like we're gonna move on thank you for the update and I also want to say thank you for being our representative for one meeting Pat is leaving this committee so we will have to elect another representative but I appreciate your willingness to do so and attending that meeting too that brings us to presentation and discussion items maybe we'll get out of here really early I doubt it I know housing policy that one can take forever and so we are to zoning bylaws presentation discussion item for a which is the zoning bylaws which was referred to us to recommend a plan for approaching zoning bylaw revisions we have had now two three discussions on it I think by my notes and so I am going to attempt to if I can find a projected oh no it that's only when Amherst media is live broadcasting projector control on I have to hit Athena on this thing solstice so I just there we go thanks see if I can do this if this works a step they're establishing connection so it might not work we're gonna try it again but while I keep trying to project this up we have a revised version in the packet if everyone could my computers having problems connecting but we're gonna try so mine's not gonna connect right now but if everyone could look it was in the packet it should be online for those that can get to the online packet this is the flowchart zoning bylaw process revision three the flowchart so I'll keep trying to connect so that hopefully we can get this up on the screen and but in the meantime and then if it doesn't maybe you can try that's just weird but um so this we talked about last week we had a nice discussion last week I went and revised based on comments from last week so instead of our last meeting instead of having two flowcharts which we used to have we now have one it's had added a lot of stuff and so it was transmitted to the planning board the planning board my understanding is how to discussion I've talked to the chair but we have two members of our committee that were at that meeting so before I discuss and mention what I heard from the chair it'd be great since I wasn't at the meeting to hear from the people that were there what the planning boards feedback at that meeting and reaction to this was at that meeting so I'm gonna leave it to Pat and Dorothy if they're willing to talk a little bit about that I don't have my notes with me so I'm not gonna have a lot to say there was a little pushback from a couple of members on the zoning board about how this was gonna work and some a little tension there but that I felt like got resolved as the discussion went on it there was reference to the fact that it's basically what's been happening anyway with with you know that the process does look like it can be a collaborative one Dorothy do you have anything intelligent to add because I have well I'm very sleepy okay I'm told I get too close to the mic so is it how's this that's good okay it's push the button not on the video okay all right I'm trying to remember and I don't have those how's this work this good okay I'm trying to remember and I don't have my notes with me but I remember that the there was concern from the planning board that what the back and forth should be at the beginning of the process more than at the end of the process I think there was a feeling of working their way all the way through and getting something and then having CRC or whatever say oh no no not that not that was was kind of like undermining the authority of the planning board so I would say openness to conversation and input but they didn't like the idea of it getting radically changed near the end that what you remember Pat yes take your mic we'll just pass the mic back and forth so we don't have to hold it down so in my conversation with the planning board chair I was told that it's similar to I think what you guys said which was in general there was no real concern with what was sitting by the end of the discussion with what was presented in terms of it seems to follow state law it does everything but there was concern about two things one was is this going to be every time what's sort of the timing on stuff as the planning board or zoning subcommittee finishes a change are we going to be facing these hearings every other week every month and or is there going to be sort of a basket where at some point and and how does that basket to get decided who gets that who starts this formal process to start those timings and all of that concern about the changes that you mentioned you know if there's no involvement of council and CRC and counselors prior to the start of this blue process where it's received by the council and the council hasn't been involved at that point are is there a potential for a larger number of changes before or after the hearing and if so what happens at that point does it go back does it not go back and stuff like that I know there's a box down here at the very bottom that is what we talked about saying we don't really want those large changes to happen from from a committee point of view I think our last meeting was that we didn't really want them to happen at this stage but in order to do that there needs to be some sort of collaboration and speaking and talking and communication prior to it formally coming to the town council so I think it kind of agrees with what you guys said yes Dorothy there was a concern that with the different rules the different timing so many days here so many days there that if the pieces of suggested change amendments come along that it would be just impossible to hold it in your head and have any sense of where you were on any piece therefore I think you use the term baskets that the idea that there'd be small groups of zoning amendments coming forward so that we would know that all of them were it's seven days or 10 days or 20 days or whatever so that it wasn't Byzantine that was really the concern I think that that's similar to the process used by by law review is that we were going through everything but we presented things then the ultimate big thoughts from my right side of the table I know you guys were at that meeting but but there are some changes to this document right now and it pretty much now doesn't attempt to set forth how that communication would happen in the early stages of drafting zoning amendments is this committee comfortable with that vagueness I guess is the question we're focusing first on the part before the blue boxes and I think that the it's going to take for the new CRC to work through the process as it observes how it proceeds with actual you know an actual revision to the planning to the zoning bylaws which is something that we have not had the benefit of so we've been thinking of it on a theoretical level we haven't had a testing opportunity they are going to have the testing opportunity what ideally will happen is that through just attendance at each other's meetings and the smaller group who are paying more attention that there will be a dynamic relationship developing but we have to see Dave just want to let the group know we are really focused on COVID-19 today so I will be back hopefully about 10 o'clock and if I can't be here then we'll send Christine around so we are currently on the zoning discussion now we had two people attend the planning board meeting so I think we might be okay if you send them we can just update them or we can update after yeah my apologies we're just really gearing up no need to apologize we stated the social distancing in our group sort of six feet we're not six feet we're kind of three kind of three maybe we can connect afterward you know I think I might see you later today but thank you for stopping by Dave and updating us on that it's more important that you be there okay well in reference to the big road work that's going to take place near the bridge in Northampton I've been thinking of the fact that the hospital is on that side of the river and I've kind of been wondering if there's any medical plans to have some kind of health facility on this side of the river that's a great question I will ask our public safety folks what the plan is I don't think the the work will interrupt movement of ambulances or you know EMS vehicles to Cooley but I will ask about that I mean we do have two urgent care facilities one on route nine and one on U Drive so and the one on U Drive is run by Cooley an extension of Cooley and the other one is private so they're there and but I'm sure that EMS folks on the Northampton side at Cooley Dickinson as well as as our folks are thinking you know making sure there are no disruption or delays based on that on that construction but it is I do know I've been in many conversations many meetings where setting up something larger on our side of the river has been discussed and it is a monumental task now given the times we're living in and the months ahead there may need to be some some looking at some triage options that might be larger on this side of the river I wanted to make a comment having been in New York during 9 11 the day after my son was supposed to be sworn into the bar in Manhattan and we were stopped at the border of Nassau County by the police and we were told we could not cross the border so when I bought a home to be near my daughter I made sure it was on the same side of the river because I I do feel those boundaries matter so I would like us to be fully capable on this side of the river no that's a great point and I think being proactive on that so I I'm going to a meeting now with fire and police and I will bring that up with them it's a good point thank you thank you Dave and now to return to zoning so it Andy was saying it I think your comment on the prior to the chart issue that we're just going to have to figure it out and see what works is that an accurate summary try to implement it if it needs modification they will discover that any other comments on the essentially the white box at the bottom of this chart that talks about prior to it formally coming to town council see none will move on to the actual chart itself so once it's received by town council then and this is I think where the planning board also had some comments it seems a little slow for the planning board to get to a point where they say we're ready to move on this we're ready to have our hearing they have to send it to the council for the council to send it back to them a little redundant a little that but clarifies exactly when that time period starts then because there are strict time limits so one explanation that was helpful when I was talking to the chair of the planning board was that the dotted boxes which is there's no key on this are the sort of potentially optional type boxes where that section might not happen much for example this and this occurs because when we combined the two charts we went from a chart where it was there was a chart for things that didn't originate in planning board and a chart for things that did originate in planning board and when they didn't originate in planning board when they go to planning board from the town council they've not seen it before so there would need and say that first red box that's now dotted they'd need to do that review but if it came from them that reviews pretty much already been done yes Dorothy somewhere in my notes just yesterday I remember seeing that all zoning amendments will be originated from the planning board which contradicts the statement that some of them would be originate from CRC is that your notes from a planning board meeting so yeah I think in the normal course of business most amendments will originate in the planning board from their zoning subcommittee but counselors have every right to propose zoning amendments on their own as we've been doing with general by-law amendments but there's also the charter process for residents to propose and so this is a chart that's attempting to accommodate any situation yes Pat I was wondering if Steve if you have anything that would help us or help them understand what we see as the process in the beginning where where something can be referred from any I have one comment I'd like to make but I'd like to hear if there are any other comments on the flowchart as presented right now I did not receive really any other requests my knowledge from the planning board other than potentially somewhere in here maybe in that first blue box indicating that there may be a hold and a collection of amendments before we start this formal flowchart thing you know I've heard recommendations of twice a year potential for four times a year maybe three times a year but trying to get on a schedule for the council and the formal hearings of we're going to do zoning amendment hearings these months and so whatever is collected by this time that's what goes forward for the formal hearings to sort of get the council in a schedule to get the planning board in a schedule and so that the public also isn't faced with random hearings every time that they have a knowledge of when things might be formalizing so that that's a potential to add to this blue box any other comments would this committee support the addition of that concept into this flowchart and I guess the question I have then is for this committee is that basket better held by the planning board before they send them all to the council for formal referral or is that basket better held by the council I think it should be held by the planning board not to do that would get us into an I think an oppositional state discussion about how frequently these buckets or however you turned it would be coming forward so my understanding was there is mention of twice a year similar to what town meeting had you know because of town meeting met twice a year there was more I think discussion or mention of four times a year quarterly sort of and then tent to have if there's anything in that say basket or bucket to do them quarterly do we have a preference to recommend to the council because this is ultimately going to go to the council and to recommend to the council schedule you know I don't want to have it go back to references to town meeting because I think that we moved beyond town meeting as a community because town meeting was not working well for us as a community and some of the examples that came up in the last discussion with Chris Breistrup were examples that a dynamic relationship allows the full development and then the presentation to the council and the hearing process to occur at an appropriate time when it's ready and not be forced by a twice a year schedule and so I think that we're running into a danger of going backwards and not seizing the opportunity we have been given with the charter for year-round government to deal with things as they come forward for those who are involved and who are not at the last meeting the example that I gave in particular was what happened with the proposal for form-based zoning which was a North Amherst and Atkins area proposal and if it had been a dynamic process which we have now it would have allowed back and forth between the legislative body and the planning board so that questions could be answered and it didn't need to move forward for an up or down vote on a forced time and I think that we're running into a danger of going back to that I agree I don't think we want to set a schedule I just we have discussed when reasonable in in groups of zoning amendments but just say as needed if something happened and we really needed to change and they planning board you know really got on it and we all agreed we needed to do it we should be able to do it so on the other hand that often already existed under town meeting so there always could be a special town meeting if there was an urgent issue that there was something there was something good about having a specific deadline so as much as we try to get away from that and move to year-round there was something that was good about the deadline and having the zoning changes in a cluster I think and so there was even a move at the time of town meeting to do all that cluster once a year to do one of the town meetings would there's only one required town meeting but to have Amherst regular special town meeting maybe have that focus on zoning and then have a spring one focus on budget and everything else I have a question for Steve how much impact was that on changes to zoning regulations or issues that came up for appeals or anything during the year prior to the meeting where it was going to be dealt with or the two meeting do you know what I mean I'm just curious I'm trying to figure out you're saying with and I am referring to town meeting happening twice a year and they were even thinking of bringing everything together for once a year and I'm just wondering if you experienced delays or or times where there were going to be definite impacts of the zoning bylaw wasn't changed or something like that and how did that work I just I have no experience with that I can't think off the top of my head of things that were earth shattering but for example there were things like enabling 132 in the zoning bylaw to enable projects like 132 Northampton to you know to be an applicant was so that wasn't necessarily deadline specific but but yeah so I can't think of anything that was sort of directly related to health safety and emergency I can't think of any emergency changes we rarely had special town meetings and there were reasons for that there were myriad that are relevant now that we no longer had that form of government but we need to be thinking about moving forward to make the charter work not working not agonizing over what happened in the past so I think if it is that for planning board purposes it's good to have a couple of prime times of the year and then seize the opportunity when needed to either delay and have special a special section which could be because of the complexity or uniqueness of an issue or because of the urgency of an issue that there be recognition that there should be exceptions to the process but to the greatest extent possible that if it is important for the planning board functioning that there be two primary times of the year that that be the way it be put forward so I think part of the discussion was not necessarily aim for certain times of year in that you know we're only going to work on zoning board you know zoning amendments January to March so that they can have the hearings in April that it would be a year-round work but there would be a collection they might finish one in January finish one in February but we wouldn't be seeing them for the formal hearing one out one at a time unless there's a need to bring it sort of out of a schedule that that was my understanding of what when my talk to the planning board chair that part of that concern was was it's more efficient to bring them all at once in terms of the hearing not in terms of the working and if you missed that one well then you got three more months you know it shows up in the bucket when it's ready but but we're not holding hearings so that the planning board they've got full schedules right now adding in all those hearings adds to their workload to whereas if you can do them all at once it's a little more efficient for them to Andy question back for Steve were there individual hearings on any major zoning change in as opposed to group hearings the question is would there be a isolated hearing in advance of town meeting is it in the past is that the question on each individual proposal that would become a separate article yep so each article had its own unique hearing yes so if we're it gets then are we doing joint hearings are we not doing joint hearings and we're doing joint hearings and each major proposal that would have been a separate article because it's a whole separate set of issues for the planning board review then moving forward if we're doing joint hearings we still have to have that same process with multiple hearings so I don't understand where the concern about having to have these two large buckets is an advantage I would think it would be a disadvantage because it doesn't allow things to flow as they're ready but forces things to flow to meet a deadline he might be responding to this already can you do if you've got three is it possible the planning board you know if there were three articles on three different types of amendments did the planning board hold the hearings all on the same night or were they always on sort of separate nights or consecutive but same night or I think we could do two or three at a time but at the the planning board also had to have site plan review yep etc etc so I think we typically had the mental space to do up to three in a night some of them are nothing's minor with the zoning bylaw but some of them appeared to be minor so we also have to consider our as a CRC our obligations because as Andy mentioned joint hearings joint hearings mean that this committee shows up at multiple meetings at night on Wednesday the more often that happens the more potential we faces if the meeting time stays on Wednesday to double here double meetings in a day multiple meetings in a week even if it's not on a Wednesday and I think that was also from my thinking as a committee chair and work on the council a potential benefit to trying to hold multiple hearings maybe maybe we've been referring to the terminology wrong but multiple hearings multiple or hearings on multiple items together whether it's delineated as three hearings or one on the same night at least to save counsellor time and efficiency in that purpose that was part of my thinking for liking this idea I understand the concern about putting in artificial timelines what are people's thoughts I know three of you will not no longer be facing this issue but what are the thoughts on on things like that Dorothy I think that we don't need to set this all down I think we could just I think the chart is sufficient I think that we have an understanding that where it makes sense and possible we will do several or the planning board will put together several items at once and I think they're already doing that and then we'll just let it play out I think we I think this is probably in the area of micromanaging at this time do we have any other thoughts on this chart for now so I guess the question I have is is this something that is ready for a vote today to send on to the council for potential adoption or is this something the committee would like to see come back at the next meeting for a final there's right now I I've heard one change which is mention a potential basket but if that basket is being held by the planning board it might not even need to be in this flow chart just part of a memo of thoughts on what goes on before the flow chart starts I would add potential possibly you know not not a word that says must but a word possibly in in groups I think that a lot of time has been spent on this chart and you've taken it back and forth taken the count of people's concerns on the planning board and if it's gonna be looked at by the town council I think it's ready to go do I have a motion to it is not amended right now the amendment would be nothing to this chart in essence given what I'm hearing it's not to the actual chart itself it's to essentially an explanatory portion of a memo explaining the chart and presenting it so it is if people are ready for a motion do I hear a motion Pat I move that we send the flow chart for zoning bylaw amendments to the council to recommend to recommend adoption yes thank you that's second bad motion any further discussion I just think that we've got hit upon the major points but we need to move forward and as the CRC in the future in the planning board experience the process in real terms it's amendable nothing set in stone and I think it's time to move it along I agree any other comments seen none we'll move to a vote all those in favor of the motion to recommend the flow chart for zoning bylaw amendments to the council for adoption raise your hand and say aye aye that is unanimous 5-0 that brings us to item 4b on the agenda that council housing policy which we are still in the very early stages of this discussion I asked that everyone review the master plan section on housing and demographics and housing is what it's technically called based on discussion last meeting that requested that maybe we go through some of our already adopted documents as we start to look at what type of policy we would want to recommend to the council that it would be good to know what we already have and I thought the first part to start with is the master plan even though it might get updated but but it's the updates are supposed to be necessary and obvious so hopefully if not much is changing in this one and and so we talked last week a lot about how to move forward with coming up with a housing policy right and we weren't exactly sure how to do it so Dorothy had mentioned that we need to know what we have what we want where we are and then maybe we could start drafting something or determine whether we need help at drafting something so thoughts on the master plan section of demographics and housing and how we might be able to use that as a basis for jump-starting a plan or a policy Dorothy hey that as I read through this again that many things that are stated here do not reflect what has been happening there's many statements of economically diverse housing types but our newest buildings are not there's also mentioned in every large paragraph that it should be related somehow to preserving the quality of the neighborhood I don't see that and I think that a lot of these things in here are very good but they're aspirational and are not being enforced certainly the affordable housing being included in in diverse housing forms is not happening in most the time it's not happening so there are there are a lot of areas here which you know if this is a policy then there has to be some way to enforce it and I don't see that happening and then there's some statements that are made that aren't backed up for example on the page for 4.2 it says projections of population growth and demographic change for Amherst very but it is clear that the community's housing needs are changing and local housing policy needs to anticipate and accommodate those changes I that may be totally true but I would like to have some some evidence and things to back up and to say what kind of changing how is it changing does it mean we still don't have young families looking for homes later on it mentions that there needs more elderly housing but it's assisted living which is a whole very complicated thing which I don't see as part of the town of Amherst goal because those are very expensive generally privately operated places then there are areas where you could just drive a truck through it when allow two family houses by right and all residential zoning districts and then the next thing is allow them to be on smaller pieces of land but nowhere does it say owner occupied so the as written here I see that is not a desirable thing to just say let's have multiple two family houses anywhere where before the zoning was for a one family house without any description of what they would be their strategies on increasing the percentage of affordable and or moderately priced units those are not being enforced and then there was one that was interesting setting aside land for affordable units and you know I think that's a great idea we don't seem to have much land but so that's not that's not really listed very much talked about fast-tracking subdivisions do we have those anymore is that one of the things that we want they're just there are a lot of interesting things here but it didn't seem to match what I read here did not match what I've seen in the planning board and the zoning the ZBA I just it there's a lack of match a very big one so also one of our conundrums is the question of apartments with several bedrooms is this actually potentially family housing or is it as other people say very attractive to kind of dorm like housing the question of apartments being built for students downtown really is I think only mentioned once in a way that's kind of very conflicting so I just I just found it it needs a tremendous amount of work to bring it up to where we are but I don't really like where we are so I would like to I think it needs a lot of work it seems to me that the master plan is aspirational and that's a positive it's showing the direction that we want our zoning bylaws and our planning to head and it addresses a lot of inequities across the town so I I feel that in terms of what it's saying I don't have a lot of I don't see a lot of change that I would want I am interested in what Christine is doing the planning director is doing in terms of what actions have happened what hasn't happened what effect has something had and without that information I think personal opinions are important but our our view needs to open up somewhat to look beyond just what we like to a broader idea of what housing needs are across timbers andy think the problem that I look at the sequence of how the plans were developed the master plan was the first base document that was as noted someone's aspirational and that the housing production plan and some of the and a lot of the other work is more specific and followed and it's hard to look at the master plan in isolation with those other documents and studies that the master plan provoked and so I don't know where we go from here I think that the a key issue that has been identified and needs to be continued by the CRC going forward is the question of whether we need to try and grapple with all housing at one time or whether it's a practical matter we need to work on the affordable housing section separate from other housing issues and what the consequences are to that decision and then because I think that what we sort of recognized is if we take on all housing as a council and CRC takes it on as a committee it's a lot more complex process even and so that's I guess a key decision that I think I need to pass on to the next group of committee members so I I'm gonna take the time to say my thoughts as I was reading the master plan and as I was gathering other documents like the housing production plan I realized I should have had us read all of them and but it was too late last night at 9 if you like so go ahead and maybe we should have paid attention to all of these for tomorrow's discussion and so I agree with what Andy said with that and but as I was reading the master plan one thing that struck me was it was like this is almost a policy in a sense it is a policy so what is a separate policy look like and so then I started googling city policy city housing policies without putting cities in because I was curious could I find stuff and there's a lot of master plans out there I didn't spend a lot of time doing this but but there are there are city policies I found one from Minneapolis I think I found one in California I think it might have been Sacramento or something that are hundreds of pages long but include things like the actual regulations for inclusionary zoning or for tiffs and for you know tax incentives tax write-offs the actual regulations and that that made me think I'm not sure that's where we're going with a policy or where we want to go with a policy so the question that brought to my mind was do we need to decide what our policy in terms of sort of what a template policy looks like how detailed are we going to get before we start talking about taking the master plan goals talking to Chris seeing what has already been adopted and implemented strategy wise what's not then making decisions as to what we want to focus on for the next five or ten years do we need to sort of decide how in depth we go first before we go to what we want to include I did find one town cities housing policy that was two pages so it did not include it didn't include all of the specific regulations it said here's our focus points of you know we're going to focus on affordable housing and this is the part of affordable housing we need to focus on or for zoning here's the changes we need to focus on things like that so a little more specific than the strategies in the master plan but not the actual regulations for say inclusionary zoning which some of these cities included in their hundred and fifty page housing policy so thoughts on that Dorothy first of all inclusionary zoning is very strong in this plan but it is not being it strongly enforced in Amherst at this time but one of the big things is the goal that is expressed all through this is for some kind of it's creating more diverse moderately priced and affordable housing options in proximity to goods and services and what we've been having are one type buildings like all student buildings or little teeny apartment buildings and they're there they're the goal that stated here that there should be diverse neighborhoods that should represent different levels of economic abilities whatever that they should be mixed that's not what's happening and I think that that's a very good goal on it so I hate to think of it as purely as an aspirational goal so I think that something I think our policy is not it does is not what's happening is not matching the master plan and so if you're gonna have a plan that sets it out then it should be be we should be seeing that happen and we're not seeing it happen so just for the record in the last ten years there have been two buildings built that were our restricted to students that have gone through the town permitting process so one is Olympia plays the big white building and the other one is at Amherst college dormitory at the end of Lincoln so there have been a number of other apartment buildings that are often represented as being all students or mostly students I don't know if that's true or not but the it is a free market and we do have you know we do have restrictions on it's a basic I'm gonna say it's a free market so it may be possible that at this moment they are more students and not students but they were not developed for it and I'm not sure if that's what's being referred to but they're not all student buildings and also we should also think about scale so not much has been developed privately in Amherst in a long time especially in the visible part of Amherst right in the downtown core and then last ten years we've seen quite a bit of building downtown but if that had Amherst had developed more organically those would have been one of many others that so what we're looking at is you know it's like the first locusts that come up so we can't assume that all flowers are locusts because those are the first ones to come up yeah I mean I think that it's important not to just isolate the downtown buildings because when you look at what it's been built in housing in Amherst there's actually a lot of housing that's been built in Amherst and maybe this comes because I've lived here for 40 years and I look at it from a 40-year span and you know when I was moved to Amherst Amherst Woods didn't exist there was the area where Shalini which is I think the most recent didn't exist there were pockets of housing in North Amherst that were farm fields but all of them were pretty much developed on the model of a single family house on a identifiable and fairly large piece of land and as a result that's why there is an opportunity to build a lot of things and now we're being forced into what's left is in infill opportunities in the core of the town and I therefore don't think that it's fair to say that all of the housing development has been of a single type and that it's these few build big buildings that have attracted number that have been marketed and attracted at least a significant number of students if not being exclusively students because I think that the largest number of housing that's been built has been individual housing of a fairly high price point that has skewed the market and forced people who can't afford that price point to look elsewhere than Amherst for their housing and we now have to develop a policy that encourages us to move forward from where we are I'm not just talking about the buildings downtown we have very expensive houses that families could live in we have almost no housing for a young family family or a couple that's going to have a child or that has a small child everything that's being that's come before us this year there is almost no outdoor space of any kind so let's just say East Street Commons Main Street Commons the proposed you drive up apartment and when he's pleasant in Kendrick place none of them have outside any space that if you were a mother with a child or two children that would seem to be a comfortable fit so there's most of the things that are being built are small and are for individuals some are aimed towards students I think that it's a mix of maybe young professionals and students in some of these buildings but the area that's that's absolutely blank that I think that is very upsetting is any place for a family that is not rich in this town and there's just that's why we're losing them so I don't think it's gonna happen I think that kind of housing requires maybe a couple of bedrooms but it also requires some outdoor space and that is being shrunk all of the things that have come have shrunk in parking and have shrunk an outdoor space in order to add more units and that they come before the board with a certain number of units they get a nice discussion it sounds good and almost every single group has come back and increased the number of units almost doubling them the next time they come before the boards so I think very soon we will have satisfied a lot of need of the need for housing of single people but I don't see much for couples and I certainly see nothing for young families so I think the town is gonna have to work on that can't just leave it up to the private market that can make more money in providing housing for people that don't have children then the question is how is the private market which ultimately is who builds buildings going to economically afford to do what we would like them to do we can only develop a policy that is based upon what is possible if I were to continue on the committee one of the things that I would have done was to try and make sure that we had a conversation with those who are who were building things as to what is economically feasible to do now how much does land cost and what are the choices you have to make in order to build something on that piece of land that is commensurate with the price point of the piece of property and that's where we're kind of have to go moving forward and not go backwards because if we went backwards what we would have said was gee we don't want to have all these half acre lots we'd like to have cluster developments that have the kind of housing that you described but we didn't do that we got to go from where we are now not where we might have been in the past I'm thinking about capitalism it it does seem that the new development in North Amherst is not filling up it's very expensive it is it's not clear what the economic impact will be on the people who have created these buildings and what kind of price adjustments might happen down the road mill yeah yeah sorry I was gonna say send to Jones things but it's not hers anymore you know but but the other piece for me is I've heard people saying similar things to you Dorothy and coming here and then saying oh no to smart growth no to infill that or five-story buildings that include plantings and cantilever sections so they don't seem so imposing so it I think that one of the things that this town needs to do is really open up its imagination look like Andy says right where we are where are we and then how can we create the kind of growth that we want and and I would like to see a lot more imagination and I think that's possible you know I don't disagree with I mean I agree with you know all these comments I do I have to say one thing though Kendrick Park is an amazing resource for downtown and so it basically the idea that Kendrick Park will now be more used because there's housing on it and you know there'll be a playground there but I mean there already is activity there but that is a shared resource in the same way that a parking garage is a shared resource so that's how cities are developed that not each particular building provides its own yard but there's a shared yard that's used by by the community but I would so my dream is that those young families that move to East Hampton and you know into a mill building or into a loft that they have an alternate here in Amherst so that I mean I think that is a real missed opportunity that we're not finding places for young families who want urban living right to live are not finding a place here so that that is in my opinion a missing link in this and the other missing link is our people empty nester so the other end you know people that are yeah that living in town could be a very attractive option for someone like me but there's right now there's nothing that you know I mean we live pretty close to town as it is but I would love the idea of living in you know even closer to town in that case you'd love living in a place closer to town with no responsibilities to take care of your yard yes which is something that a lot of people want what I'm hearing is potential way forward on how we get to a housing policy we've had a good discussion we don't have to stop that discussion now but what I'm hearing is there's a lot of opinions on what we're missing and that the master plan might address some of that with strategies but where we go from here is to identify what we want to emphasize and turn that into a housing policy and so a big you know if you're looking at a big overarching one to throw one out there might be some sort of you know the economic diversity in housing or something or or as Andy said you know it's embedded the density or something and then say well what are the strategies or what is our plan for creating the ability for developers to get and produce that type of housing and then setting forth those strategies and saying here are priorities for getting there and not only are those and that priority might be zoning changes or it might be enacting additional tiffs and then who in town is responsible for doing that or how do you follow through on that you know so taking those strategies that might be in the master plan identifying some that have already been done identifying more identifying new ones may be putting them under a group and saying here's our top priorities for them that's sort of what I'm hearing from this discussion that might be a way forward in creating a policy of course that takes a lot of work and a lot more discussion as to what's most important and all but I know some of us are not going to be on the committee but does that sound like a potential way forward towards trying to create more of a policy because if we're creating a housing policy that's something the town can follow and say oh is this zoning change going to promote that policy or not in addition to all the other master plan stuff it needs to not be inconsistent with is this funding mechanism at CPA going to promote that policy okay one of the things that's been brought up particularly I guess at the zoning subcommittee is that summit so often the housing that is being provided or being built is for a small number of people and a certain type of client to move in leaving no room for families and and people to change whether they're they start off as a single person then they become a couple then maybe they become a family and it's always well well if you change and don't fit our little model you have to move out of the building which creates an instability and makes more more transient kind of town where you say well I'm living in Amherst when I can but then when if I ever have to this I have to leave so I think we just need to have more diversified housing and you know in terms of what the town gives well okay Kendrick Park the town is has is fixing that up they're paying for it with the help of grants good infrastructure is a contribution that the town gives at the roads the sidewalks the trees I think Amherst does a lot of things and is doing plenty to do more in creating those things around the housing that would be good but I just really want to have housing where in the same building if we're gonna have a high-rise building in downtown in the same building could be students could be people in affordable housing could be seniors who want the urban experience and could be some young families I think that's what a community is instead of these little silos of all one type of people in this house in that house in that house that that creates isolation and lack of community I guess there's one thing that I wanted to just share with you everyone in that is if you and I wish we had gotten solstice up because I put it on the screen to make it really easy but I can't if you look at the town website under the planning and zone under departments and you work through planning and zoning you get to a thing called documents and there's a thing there called town information and one of the things in there is a piece called housing and since Mandy's sitting next to me I can show her but I can't show anyone else when you look at the chart is to housing values for the countywide and housing values for Amherst and you look at the what's happened since 1970 you see that it becomes more and more divergent where the we started out at a point where the the lines for county and Amherst were fairly close to each other after 1980 they begin to totally diverge and so since then the the difference has been much greater and I think you know it's that kind of data that we really need to say why did that happen is it too late we reverse it and I the home house values the the top line in that chart is Amherst and the second line down is County the third line is median income so think you know there has been a trend the trend has happened for a reason it's the you know question of what land is available in the policies the economics the desire to move into communities what choices have been made but it is what has happened and if we're going to try and do anything to reverse that chart I'm not sure it's possible but if it is possible what is it those are the kinds of questions that we really need to be delving into as a council and through the next work of CRC and to my two colleagues in the back of the room good luck yeah I'm looking at the chart that Andy's referring to I suspect some of that's bubble related because it takes us to 2000 and that was a period when the lenders were casting a blind eye to the income the ability to pay back so that I'll bet that that diversions I'd love to see that now in 2020 to see if those numbers have come closer together so it sounds like we're winding down this conversation for today does anyone else have anything they want to say or any suggestions for as we go forward with this conversation how to frame it and how to best move forward to getting towards the creation of a policy Dorothy well I forget whether it was Andy or Steve but they expressed something that I have thought about I really would like to have a conversation with developers to talk about what do you what are you planning to do I mean for example on East Pleasant Street a lot of stuff is going to happen there and I don't know at this moment how many different groups of people own the property yeah it's going to be greatly changed is it just going to be done little piece by piece so we get this kind of mishmash or what is going to happen there how is it going to relate and we can't tell them what to do but they can tell us what they're thinking of doing and what their problems are and we can tell them some of our aspirations and we can see if there's any way that we can get a little closer in those things I just don't like this idea that different groups and people things are going to happen you one day you come and you say find something is built there by a person who had every right to do so right but it's not part of any kind of coherent plan we will move on from item 4b and we will close that discussion for today and it will show up on the next agenda item 4c was another anticipation so we are not dealing with CRC meeting times that was an anticipation of the committee being restructured before today so that will show up on next weeks or next meetings agenda and takes us to minutes the first one is the adoption of the February 26th draft minutes and does anyone have any recommended changes or requested changes to those draft minutes they were put in the packet last night I guess the minutes would be clear if the TSO charge were in there I have something on page 3 the motion Shriver second motion moved second by Pam to recommend the town council adopt the proposed resolution adopting an interim affordable housing policy as amended with blue language I guess I would have liked the wording of that in there sometimes when you read over minutes and if it refers to things and you don't have it in front of you you don't know what you're really reading so the document will is referred to at the bottom is documents referenced could it be summarized so two options for the final paragraph so the very second if you go into page 2 under resolution on your housing policy the second paragraph summarizes sort of the difference in the two options so graph are you on it says members discussed two options for the final paragraph of the resolutions discussed using the Amherst affordable housing trust draft affordable housing policy as the interim policy while the council develops and adopts a policy they discussed terms with concerns with adopting that draft policy as it contains specific goals so that sort of discusses one of them we could add in some sort of explanatory language we'd have to craft it before we adopt the minutes today but but down at the bottom of page 4 packet materials documents presented does talk about the interim affordable housing policy resolution draft and that does have all of the colors on it it's always a pain to refer to a specific other document but but it could be found with those colors and the motion is is the motion so we can't change the motion language that was the motion language any so so we're not gonna make any changes with that any other requested changes or any other any requested changes seeing none I will take a motion to adopt or prove the minutes as presented for February 26th Andy moved it Pat seconded it any other discussion all those in favor of adopting the February 26th minutes as presented raise your hand and say aye that is 5-0 adopted as presented that brings us to item 5b this does not have a vote this is just an announcement prior back in September or October this committee voted to assign Pat the responsibility of approving back minutes from minutes that had not been in front of the committee already and we finally got together to make sure that happens as another housekeeping matter and so she has approved the minutes of the April 11th 2019 April 24 2019 May 1 2019 May 8 2019 May 15 2019 that was joined with the council May 15 2019 that was joined with the planning board June 5th June 12th all 2019 July 17 2019 and August 7 2019 minutes so they were all in your packet after this meeting today they will all be uploaded into the CRC minutes page on the town website that completes all of the back minutes so I want to thank Pat for reviewing all of them for us I will say she had done that a while ago and I never followed up so part of the delay was me there were three that we had finally done so part of that delay was me and I said ah we're changing membership we really do need to just finish this item I do want to say that initially when I started doing it I was changing all of the minute formatting to meet the current council formatting and that became overwhelming so that the last sets of minutes that were done I corrected spelling and things like that and nothing else but we are caught up up to date I thank you very much Pat for doing that and I will thank Athena for doing all of the uploading of them within the next couple days she has already been warned but I asked her not to do it till we formally announced at the meeting that that those were approved and that brings us I believe to announcements so the announcements I have are to thank tremendously and express my thanks to the three members that are leaving this committee and this is their last meeting and that is Pat Dorothy and Andy it has been a pleasure working with you I think for some I might still be on a committee but for others I may not but it's sad to change committees but you've been a great asset to this committee and so thank you for all the work thank you Pat for representing us on the planning board and for doing all those minutes and you've stepped up for all of that and we'll have to find someone else to represent us to the planning board on the master plan update and so this is their last meeting that means next meeting we will be joined by three new members two of them are in the audience Evan Ross will be joining us Shalini Balmiln will be joining us and Sarah Swartz will be rejoining this committee because she originally was on this committee so we will be welcoming her back to this committee we will potentially be changing times we'll see what works for the new committee so that for people watching it may not remain at 830 on Wednesdays but we will see and any meeting changes will be updated as they happen I think that is the only announcement I have does anyone else have any announcements Andy I can't help but do the flipside though it tooth we've had two people who've served as chair of the committee both who are the continuing members of the committee and I want to thank both Steve who got the committee launched and has brought incredible experience in planning and as a member the planning board as well as his professional work to this committee to provide the insight and I'm pleased that he's continuing and then when we made the change in chair part way through the year it's a difference of style but it was the organizational skills that Mandy brought to it have really been a strength for the committee too so I think that we've been blessed with the service of two people who did a lot of work for the committee and providing leadership for the committee I want to thank them and wish both of them continued success in working with new members and continuing the work that we started I won't miss 830 meetings I'm wondering if we can get that changed it has been a good mix so it'll just be different going forward next meeting agenda preview if there are no other announcements no others and item number seven is next meeting agenda preview we will have the election of the chair and the vice chair that will be run by I believe our council president we will have a discussion on general meeting times we will continue with the standard items of master plan update revisions as they come forward that's just going to be a continuing agenda item council housing policy will be continuing agenda item there may be coming soon I doubt it for next meeting but I just don't know if we're forwarding this bylaw process for zoning bylaw revisions to the council there is at least one zoning bylaw change coming shortly and that could be weeks to a month or two on voting quantums for I believe it's special permits so or no site plan reviews I think so as soon as I can get the draft language once it's you know once it's presented I know the planning board's been working on draft language so hopefully we will have some draft language soon to be able to talk discuss prior to the formal forwarding and all as we try the draft process that we now recommended the council take so that may show up on the agenda it may not and all does anyone else have any potential agenda items to suggest at this point not seeing any that means any items not anticipated by myself anyone want to bring up anything I need to discuss today Pat at 6.15 a.m. this morning 74 years ago I was born and so I am entering my 75th year well happy birthday that is fantastic and and to spend it at 8.30 a.m. on at a committee meeting just shows your dedication and then you're going on to another committee meeting four hours of committee meetings on your birthday that's dedication right there I am amazed so any other items not anticipated seeing none for the last meeting for three of our members for a while I grant you 30 minutes of early leave we are adjourned at 10.03