So lately, I've been thinking a lot about serious relationships, especially in the dating meeting and relating marketplace that we live today because often times, let me retract that. I don't even want to say often times. It seems to me that the predominant dating culture today or is it a relationship culture? I don't even know. The dating culture is predominantly simply just hooking up. That's right. And then once two people hook up, they oftentimes find themselves in a casual relationship without any direction, without any real roots being built for long term commitment.  In fact, these days, the investment might simply be, well, we'll be monogamous and exclusive with one another. Okay. Is that really an investment? Those are just words that can be broken or changed at any time. Think about the word commitment. Even when two people say that they're committed to one another and they agree to monogamy and exclusivity, do you realize how easily that can be broken and changed? There isn't really much of a commitment, even saying the words.  Well, if somebody, and this is just for fun, if you put $100,000 in an escrow account and saying, well, this money is yours. If I break up with you within the first few weeks, I think men might be a little more intentional in the process when you put your money where your mouth is. But today, there isn't no real solid commitment for the most part. So this begs to ask the question, what is a serious relationship when we're basically, let me rewind for a second. I want you to think back 50 plus years ago, we'll go 50, 60 years ago, here in the United States, there used to be something called courting. There was an intentional process to get to know someone, to get to know someone with the intent of marrying them. That was an intentional process. And the families were usually involved in this process. It's changed when dating came about because dating allows for a casual connection without any promise for the future, without really any investment towards the future. And it can be broken and changed in a simple text message. Oh my God, these days, you can simply text someone to end a relationship. Or worse, you can do the unthinkable. And that's ghost them. It's unthinkable with a little bit of drama. But it's so unthinkable that a human being would simply just stop talking to someone that they invested time in, that they cared with, that they even had intimate relationships with one another and simply go co-turkey. That's kind of sad that that can happen today. That's because these days, as I started in the beginning of this broadcast, I had most people are hooking up or in casual relationships. So I wanted to spend some time exploring what is a serious relationship. What really is a serious relationship, short of living together or marriage or let me re, let me backtrack. Okay, so let's just say the ultimate serious relationship is marrying someone. Would you agree? That's the ultimate serious relationship. Number right below that would be living together. Now, yeah, living together. I'd say that would be the right below marriage. Well, what's below that? What is that? Would it be spending time, you know, seeing each other three or four days and nights a week together, doing shared activities, hobbies, mutual interests, spending time with family and friends, traveling together, teamwork, doing skills both in your personal and your professional life, intimacy, both physical and emotional intimacy. Would that be right below living together? Maybe. You know, the interesting thing to me when it comes to serious relationship really boils down to this one fundamental principle. And in a moment, we're going to share signs that you might be moving in this direction. We're going to share eight signs that a man thinks of you in a serious way that he actually possibly sees what I'm about to share with you. So it seems to me that a serious relationship is basically a relationship of partnership and teamwork with one another. I'm going to repeat that partnership and teamwork with one another. Now, you're working as a team. You know, I think of recently we had a holiday. There's a picture of my beloved and I, we were cooking for, I should say we were cooking for the family. She was doing the cooking for her children and my son to come over and visit us for the holiday. And we kind of shared duties here. She, you know, we went shopping together. We did that together. We did the meal prep. I was cleaning the house. You know, she cooked most of the food. I cooked some of the food. I helped actually she, she set the table. She did a beautiful job on the table. I should say, but we operated as a team. It wasn't an expectation. Certainly it wasn't expectation that I bring in the, you know, more money that she should be doing this. There was no expectation in the relationship. But even if there were, what if the relationship was a dynamic where one person, is the predominant breadwinner. And the other person is the predominant homework, a homemaker. My mother and father lived in that environment. Now those days are sadly a lot changed because back then women weren't really predominantly in the workforce as they are today. But certainly that was their teamwork in relationship. You know, I had an interesting conversation with a client made me think about teamwork in a different way. She's been in a relationship with a man for about a year and a half. And, and they just moved in together recently. I think like a month ago or a few months ago. And she wanted my advice on something because he snores heavily, but he's not willing to do something about it. He basically said, all men snore, and you just got to live with it. All men snore and you got to live with it. You know, that's a pretty crass thing to say to your partner to the person you live with. That's not acting in teamwork. That's not acting in partnership. You know, what I think he could have said or what I, you know, certainly I've had this exact same experience. I was previously in a relationship with someone and we began spending quite a bit of time together. And she said, you snore pretty bad. So I did research on snoring and I found out that you can get something called a snore guard from your dentist. You have it molded to your teeth. And that helped prevent 90% of my snoring. It didn't occur to them to do that. That's not partnership. That's not teamwork. So folks, I think it's really important to identify if you're currently in a relationship with someone. Is it a teamwork based part? Is it a teamwork based relationship? Or is it a casual relationship? Or interesting enough, do you realize ladies that many of you are in what I call a friends with benefits relationship, but you don't even know about it? These are oftentimes the long distance relationships where people spend a lot of time on the telephone and very little time face to face. I know some people that have carried on several year worth relationship and they've never spoken on the phone. But the ones I was talking about before, the long distance, it's friends with benefits because they get together, have sex with one another and then they go back to their respective lives. Or we could call that a situation ship. Because now, I think it's certainly a, you know, by the way, let me, I'm going to rewind for a second. I said marriage was kind of the ultimate serious relationship living together. And then what I described before, but right below that is at least calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend. That's a start. Well, but Jonathan, he tells me he doesn't like labels.  My microphone has a label. It's called a microphone. My telephone has a label. It's called a telephone. My cup, my cup has a label on it, but it's also labeled as a cop. This is how we reference things. When someone says I don't like to put a label on it.  Folks, my philosophy is very simple. The point of dating, if you're not, if you're not choosing a potential partner that you could either live together or get married. That's my philosophy. Many of you don't know how to vet men to determine where they're at in their capacity to be in a relationship. So check out right here is a link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if working with a coach is right for you. And there's a link below in the description. This is folks, many of you are in these situations ships friends with benefits that you don't know about a type relationships or casual relationships are quite frankly, many of you found yourselves hooking up because you're not doing a better job of vetting these guys. If you need help with that schedule call with me. So what I'm going to share in these eight signs, eight signs that he's serious and maybe is open to commitment. These are just minor signs, until you have the real big talk. But let's see what these minor signs are and let's talk about that big talk in just a moment so I'll put on my trusty glasses. My girlfriend told me not to do this but I'm going to do it anyway that's my notes. She's easy. She's probably right. By the way she picked out this shirt for me do you like the color of the shirt I love this bright royal blue shirt so I thank her for that. So, let's talk about some signs that he serious about you and wants to commit. So number one he makes effort to see you. You know what anybody can do that. So that's a sign certainly that's a sign but you know anybody can do that. But it is a sign when someone makes effort to see you consistent effort to want to be with you. That's a greater sign when it's one sign that he calls you up once every other week or text you at you know three in the morning on a Friday night. That's making effort but consistent effort also looks like maybe planning something in advance making plans to be with you. That's a sign. So but making effort anybody can do that but it's certainly a sign. Number two you've met his family and friends. Yeah that's a sign. John anybody can do that too. You know a lot of as I said before in casual relationships guys you know might be monogamous and exclusive with you but they're not serious about something. That's why you have to do a better job of determining if you want a serious relationship figure out where he stands early in the relationship and I'll give you a test to help you with that in a moment. Number three he asks you questions about your life. You know anybody can do that too but that's a good start. He's actually curious about how your life operates. He wants to get to know how you operate in your life and about who you are as a person. That's a pretty good sign. Number four he apologizes when he needs to. Okay. Why is that a sign.  They have no need to apologize.  But that person should do is say you know what sweetheart I'm sorry for my my crass comment there it was out of line. Of course I'll go do a sleep study or I'll look into ways to fix this because I know I want you to be able to get some good night's sleep because you have work and I certainly have work and you're important to me and I apologize for treating you that way. That's a great sign when someone takes ownership for their part instead of dismissing you or treating you as insignificant. Number five he genuinely listens to you. He genuinely listens to versus it's all about him. That's a sign you're getting closer when someone genuinely listens to you. They they and they not only listen but they peel the onion from what they've just heard. It's funny. I was at a business meeting some years ago. I'll never forget this. I was with a group of attorneys. And one of the attorneys is a friend of mine. He's an intellectual property attorney and the person was asking you know what type of law do you practice. He said intellectual law and then he went on the person went on to say what inspired you to want to do that. What inspired you to want to do intellectual law and then he shared the story and then he went the person went deeper below that. See people who actively listen and ask questions about you. They're peeling the onion to want to get deeper. In my relationship we call that unpacking. We oftentimes unpack things. And for the record we have something that triggered us this weekend. Our relationship isn't perfect as much as we look great in pictures. We have our issues. But what we did is we ask questions about it. We listen to one another. We work as a team to want to resolve those things that trigger us rather than pointing the finger at the person and making them out to be wrong. That's a great sign that someone wants something serious. Number six and it kind of leads into what I'm just about what I just said. He's willing to compromise versus it's his way or the highway. At least the snoring person said I'm going to look into it. He started off you know sometimes people can get defensive it's natural to get a little defensive sometimes. Especially when you when you've been in midlife and you're so rooted in the way your life is sometimes it's hard to change an old dog. And so it takes a little time to recognize that you know maybe I might have to do something different. A person who's serious about you will compromise versus it's this it's their way or the highway. Is this sinking in is this resonating please let me know. Number seven. He sees the real you and he's still there. I think this is a big one. For those of you that remember the TV show friends. I think each character in the TV show friends had a very unique idiosyncrasies about them and I was thinking particularly of Monica. Now Monica was rather OCD and a perfectionist and was rather annoying. But eventually Chandler who had his own quirks about him. He found that her her idiosyncrasies was things that he loved it didn't make him afraid to be in relationship with her. You know folks I oftentimes see many of you so afraid to speak your truth to a guy. If you've ever read my book what the heck is self love anyway a journey of personal development self health and spiritual work chapter one to speak your truth just do it in a kind way. Many of you are like this. You're afraid to speak your truth and yet in chapter nine of my book. If it's sincere and from the heart you can't say the wrong thing to the right person. Don't be afraid to show the real you. It's funny I was watching a show the other day and the guy and the woman said he tried to tell me his whole life on the first date. Listen I have 50 plus years under my belt. I can I couldn't even come close to giving you one tenth of one percent of my whole life in six hours if it was a six hour day. So it amazes me that that is a turn off when a person tries to share the real them. Because it leaves no mystery. Oh my God there's so much mystery after the first date the tenth day and even I'm in a relationship where we live together and I'm always finding something uniquely new about this person. Mainly because I want to see the real person that is a demonstration that they're serious about the relationship and number eight. He wants and this is really the hardest one of all to achieve. He wants to take care of you physically emotionally and everything in between. Folks a serious relationship doesn't occur until a man or woman can say to each other I want to take care of you through thick and thin through sickness and in health until then. It's just a casual relationship until this happens. So the real question becomes how do we get there. Well first I want to say this ladies.  Stop giving. Listen I don't want to make sex out to be a commodity it's not that. But the fact the matter is a guy can get your companionship and sex with little or no investment as I said in the beginning of this. And the other way to test them is to use what I call my dating vows. And do this early on before you give your heart to a man. Now by the way what I'm sharing with you right here is all listed right below in the description so when this video click that more button to open this this the notes and you will read this. You'll have a copy of this you can even cut and paste this. It says get him to commit before sleeping together the dating vows. Have you ever heard the saying women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. The dating vow is an agreement between the two of you it's it's at least putting it in the right direction to determine is this guy serious about wanting a relationship. Versus he might say well I'm open to a relationship with the right person.  There's a big difference I'm open to a lot of things. But there's a big difference before I met my beloved I was seriously looking for a relationship with the right person and I'll have talked about that in another video. So the dating vows go like this. I agree to explore the process of getting to know you with the intent to declare something serious within the next three to six months. You're both agreeing to this. Number two, I agree to be monogamous sexually while we have regular sex together. Number three, I agree to not actively seek and meet and date others while we're in the dating process, which includes taking down our dating profiles if we met through an online dating method. Number four, I agree to speak up if this isn't working for me versus ghosting pulling away or disappearing. Number five, I agree to invest regular time in the process to getting to know you which includes spending three or four days and nights a week together doing shared activities hobbies mutual interest spending time with family and friends traveling together teamwork building skills, both in our personal our professional life intimacy both physical and emotional intimacy. Look, ladies, 90% of guys will bail on this. Because there's thousands and thousands of women a swipe away that these men believe that they can get the same thing they can replace you in a nanosecond. Set your standard up here, not your expectation your standard here, and agree to spend time with those men that at least are making the effort in the area of a serious relationship. Look at there's no guarantees. But I'm going to tell you this. My clients are achieving amazing success because they're using radical honesty to pre qualify a person. They are unafraid to be who they are they are what this book is called which I why I love this book why men love bitches a babe in total control of herself. Yes, she is in her power she's in her sovereignty. She knows what she wants and she knows how to figure out who is the right person versus believing that chemistry equals relationship success. And yet we've all been indoctrinated in that and it's time to change that narrative quite quickly. Eight signs he's serious about a relationship and wants to commit to you. He makes effort to see you anybody can do that. You've met his family and friends anybody can do that but at least start the right start. He asks questions about you and good start. He apologizes when he needs to he genuinely listens to you versus all about him. He's willing to compromise versus his way or the highway. He's seen the real you and he's still there. And lastly he wants to take care of you physically emotionally and everything in between. All right. I think you got the gist of what you need to learn from that. I think it's time to ask questions. If you have a question. Oh, but before you do that, if you found value in this, please hit that like button. Please share this video. Please subscribe to my channel. Please share this with your friends. And if you have a question for me, write the word question, post the question thereafter, or you can purchase a super sticker super chat. There's a little dollar sign in the chat box. All the monies from the super sticker super chat goes to a scholarship fund in the name of my son Connor Asley. That's him right there with his brother. He's my son who passed away four and a half years ago. Actually, my mom's anniversary of her passing five years ago was the other day. And in his honor, it started a scholarship fund to donate to causes like the Hoffman process and Insight Institute just to name a few. All right. I think it's time for questions. Let's see what we've got. Oh, hold on one second, everyone. My back is hurting from this. So I just want to put this right here. That helps tremendously. So let's see. I saw a question come in earlier. Hillary asked question. Should it be an automatic next if a guy writes on his profile, let's be friends first and see where it goes. That seems like a reasonable path, but he's not ready or serious. You know, I think my dating profile intimated something similar. Now, let's think about this for a moment. What's the benefit of a friend first? Well, friends first means you feel comfortable with one another. Why do you think about this? Are some of your are your best friends the people you feel like you can say anything to? Yeah. I think there's value in developing friendship. You know, I think about my relationship with my sweetheart. You know, we had met on. It's a long distance and folks, you know, I'm not a big fan of long distance relationships, but I think ours was unique for a variety of different reasons and more than welcome to ask me about that. First off, we met on a dating site. She lived 1700 miles away, 1800 miles away.  Okay. And little here, little there, we would talk to one another and we became Facebook friends. So in the course of one year, we spent some time getting to know each other non romantically. And then when we finally did meet, it was as friends. Now, there was there was chemistry and there was something really special that happened on our first meeting. But we didn't meet in a romantic sense. So I wouldn't discount a person that wrote that. What I would discount is if they just want you in the, if they only want you as a friend or worse, they want you as their therapist. You know, a lot of dating today, people will bond via these devices with people. I call them trauma bonding experiences. You're basically as therapist. By the way, you're ladies, the online dating world is a cheap way to get therapy for men and women these days. So I think it's first to do some social things together in a friendly manner.  How many do you need more new friends in your life? Some of you do, but most of us don't need new friends. We don't have enough time for the existing friends and family we have in our life. So if you're going to invest in that, at least I want to invest in someone who I'd like to at least want to take their clothes off, even if it doesn't happen for the first five days. Great question there, Hillary. Thank you so much. All right. Christy writes question. It's my experience. Most guys will answer questions with lies in order to save what they think you want to hear. Is there a foolproof way to determine if a guy is lying? You know, where's that book I have? You know, there's a book called the 101 lies men tell and women believe them. By the way, there's a link to all the books I recommend in the go to my description. Click on Jonathan books recommend. It's by Dory Heinler. Okay, let's open this up and see some of the lies. Here's one of lies. I'll call you. I love you. You're the only one. I've never felt this way about anyone else. I've got to work late at the office tonight. That's the best I've sex I've ever had. You've got the most beautiful eyes. You know, I'd say I've said all seven of these in some way, shape or form. Here's the thing. You wet ladies, most of you have a highly attuned intuition. And yet many of you, it's like your intuition has as rose color glasses on it. The foolproof way is to trust your intuition. Now, the tricky part is sometimes the ego gets in the way of intuition. So it takes time to dismantle the ego and start leaning into your heart. I don't think I have a copy of it, but I highly, I highly recommend the book return to love by Mary Ann Williamson. I highly recommend that to read because that will start dismantling the ego and start helping you shift to your heart. I would definitely recommend that. But ultimately your best bet is your intuition. All right. Thank you so much, Christie. Hey, okay. I'm ordering the book. I'm glad to hear that winter. Thank you so much. All right. If you have a question, you can purchase a super sticker, super chat. I'd love to donate to that. Love it if you donated to the Conor Asley fund. Kathy says it is, is it acceptable to date older? I'm dating an older woman, everyone. So yes, it is acceptable. Now someone goes on to say how much older? Well, that's the question. I think if you're in midlife, it's important to date people relatively close to your own age. To have some longevity. Okay. And in some cases for women, you may want to consider dating younger. But I would say a five to 10 year spread is about a good spread within there. Certainly some people can go older. Some people can go younger. But I certainly believe a five to 10 year spread is a good spread. So thank you so much for that question. All right. Candy. Catty writes question. I want kids. He doesn't. He has three from previous marriage. He broke broke it off with him, but he still reaches out. It's not sex because we're not physical. He just has having a hard time moving on. So is he just having a hard time moving on? Yeah. You know, the thing is you built some sort of relationship together. You built some sort of familiarity with one another. It's difficult to let go of an attachment you have with someone, especially if you did the breaking up. Sometimes the best thing to do is cut things off completely and block people for a while. And then revisit it, take, take them off social media, take them off your phones for a while, be upfront about doing it. But saying it's for listen, Tim, I really appreciated our time together. And I just want you to know that I genuinely care about you. I also recognize that if we're not going to explore a serious relationship, that even remaining friends for right now isn't in my best interest and it's not in your best interest. So I'd like us to take a break from communication. I'm making a request that you don't reach out to me. Let's take a six months break from communication from one other. And if you break that request, I will be blocking you. Okay. You don't need to ask his permission. You're just telling him what you're doing.    But that's my suggestion anyway. Katie, I hope that helps. Thank you so much. Winter says, I often make the first move. Is it acceptable? And is it really my true personality? Folks, I love my girlfriend made the first move. She emailed me first on a dating app. I think I followed up with let's talk on the phone. She made the first move and we wouldn't be together. We wouldn't be together if she didn't make the first move. I'm very grateful for that. So yes, it is absolutely acceptable that a woman makes the first move. Folks, if you're not familiar with the book, where'd it go? If the Buddha dated, if the Buddha dated.  Read this book. This is the only book that when I picked it up, I finished it in two hours. I've never read a book this fast. I love this book. Get the if the Buddha dated. All right, let's keep swimming. Let's keep going. Oh, Kimberly. Hey, how are you doing, sweetheart? When will we get to meet your girlfriend? We do not know her name yet. You know, I want to actually introduce her name when she does come on the videos. We're actually, we've already discussed it. She's going to do some videos for my private group. My group is called midlife love mastery. By the way, there's a link below to join my group. We're going to start with that probably maybe during the holidays, but certainly after the first of the year, we're going to do a little bit of shooting videos together there. I want to call it the Johnny. Oh, I don't want to give away her name now. I almost did it. But yeah, so, and my hope is definitely by the new year, we'll be doing some pre-recorded videos for everyone. She feels, listen, she's nervous. She's nervous because she's afraid she doesn't, she won't be as articulate as I am. She's, she said to me, I really am impressed and respect the your ability to just get up and riff the way you do. And she doesn't, she feels a little inferior that way. So I respect her feelings on that folks. I want everyone to know that I have shown pictures of her. So everyone knows she's legit and real. There's a picture of her there. But yes, she'll be on camera. Hopefully within the next few months, certainly in my private group. So check out the link below. Listen, this is a group where you can have private access to me on a regular basis for less than $20 a month. Check out the link below. And that's going to just happen in a few weeks. Okay, let's just go swimming. Thomas says online dating is blind dating. Don't expect an intelligent experienced man to commit after a few days. It takes months. Also, how do you ladies define commitment? You know, this is the, by the way, let's, let's, okay, let's explore this. Don't expect an intelligent experienced man to commit after a few days. Well, guess what?  That's reserved for those that demonstrate trust and commitment again. Read the book eight dates chapter one about trust and commitment. What is trust? Trust isn't just whether or not you think this guy will cheat on you. Trust is, can I count on this person to be there for me?  It's easy to get. It's a swipe away. Well, if you want an intelligent experienced guy, if he wants you an intelligent experienced woman, maybe he might need to demonstrate trust and commitment before he gets that benefit. That's my suggestion to you anyway. Thank you, Thomas. Envy writes, Thomas commitment is being focused on one woman, not serial dating. Exactly. Hey, I want to thank Anna for the $2. Super sticker. Thank you so much. Oh, Thomas comes back and says that sounds reasonable, but does it have to include marriage at some point? Okay. Listen folks, I'm of the baby boom generation. I'm over 50 years old. I know that the days in front of me are shorter than the days behind me. I certainly might, my prayer is I get to be 80 or 90 plus years old. And I want my partner there with me. I don't want to do this by myself.  That's, I guess, if they can easily leave the reason why marriage has some benefits, it makes it harder to leave. And maybe that's because it's worth fighting for, at least worth investing in. I know a lot of divorce attorneys will tell you the opposite, but I also believe, look it, you can get preenups to protect some of your financial assets at this point in our lives. But ultimately what's the point of doing this if it's going to end at some point? That's my feeling anyway. Okay, Thomas, you got my two cents on that one. Pam writes, question, do you think having a friend with benefit hampers the chance of finding the right person? I'm forthright about looking for a real relationship, someone who wants me fully in their life. You know, I think, I think when you meet someone special, that's the time to cut off a friend with benefit. I think sometimes it's hard to meet someone special. If the energy of a friend with benefit is bleeding, bleeding's not the right word, seeping into your unconscious or subconscious. I recognize that in your question, you're cognitively thinking you're forthright about looking for a relationship, but that's cognitively. What about your subconscious? What about your unconscious part of your life? What if that is your block? That having that friend with benefit is the reason why you're not attracting a fully committed relationship? It's just something worth exploring, Pam. I definitely would check that out internally. But guess what? We human beings have this brilliant way of gas of navigating ourselves, of spiritually bypassing things, and worse, we have this ridiculous way to rationalize all of our bad choices. That's right. We have this capacity to rational, L-I-E-S rationalize all our bad choices. And sometimes our good choices too. All right, Pam. I hope you got value from that one. Thank you for that question. OK. By the way, just a reminder, write the word question and post the question thereafter. How common is the issue with adult children moving a relationship forward? How common is issue, well, folks, I did a video called The Five Glaring Red Flags. And in that, I talked about children, in particular men with their daughters and women with their sons. They might be experiencing something called covert incest, covert incest. By the way, Google it. Give me a favor. Hey, Google. Oh, I got my do not disturb sign on. Look up covert incest on Google. You may want to understand that children, some men and some women have this unconscious strong attachment to usually the opposite sex child as a replacement for that partner that they have in their life. By the way, have any of you experienced men who put their daughters up on a pedestal and it's basically their daughter is first and you're third or fourth or fifth in their life? By the way, write that down or post a comment below if you've experienced this. This is very common. This is why one of the things I do in my private coaching is learning about these things and how to navigate these conversations early on so you don't find yourself in a situation where you've invested your heart to someone who's not capable of giving it to you because they have an attachment to their daughter with a woman they have an attachment to their son not in a sexual way, but in an unconscious, unhealthy way. So I know I was going off subject but I just wanted to pop that in there. All right. The Joker writes, I did the work. I read all your books. I did everything. Now after five year friendship, he is talking sexually and made an amazing dinner for me a week ago. No kissing, but we did cuddle on the couch. And Joker goes on, he was excited. Well, I'm happy to hear that. Oh, there's another thing here that says, now I asked him if we're dating. He said no because he was going to dinner with a friend. Well, I think what's most important is having serious conversations, radically honest conversations. You know, the reason why there's so much confusion because oftentimes human beings make up stories in their head about what's happening. You know, it's interesting. My girlfriend gave me an interesting example of this. She mostly talked about women doing this, but men do this too. On a dating profile, you see 10 photographs. And you see the best photograph out of the 10. Nine of them are shittier than shit, but one is really good. And you fixate on the one thinking that's what they look like. What human beings do this, they fixate on one good thing and don't see what's going on around them. Humans have this capacity to do this. And this is why I think many people live in a fantasy or delusion world because in their mind, they've made up a rationalization of what something looks like. So I'm going off on a tangent but coming back to your original point. Now I asked him to friendship. My point was just be up front. Do you want to listen? My girlfriend and I, we laid most of our cards or all the cards on our table we had at that point in our lives and we keep getting more cards, but we laid them on the table. We were very intentional. Be intentional with your life. The reason why I recommend book after book after book is because my invitation for you is to live a life of intention and not passivity. But Jonathan, I'm told by all the female energy coaches that all I have to do is sit back in my feminine energy and let the guy claim me. Look at that rhetoric is incredibly confusing. Let me give you an example. Many of you ladies are told not to be in your masculine. Okay, not to be in your masculine. What does masculine look like? Controlling, disagreeable, goal oriented, ambitious. You're told not to be that with a man. Well, let's take out the ambition one. Controlling, why is that a masculine energy? That's a bad behavior. Dismissive, that's not masculine energy. That's just bad behavior. Ambitious, sure, that's a good thing, but it's good to be ambitious as a woman or a man, okay?  Folks, ladies, if you expect a man to lead, you're giving the job to the wrong person.  They're clueless, they're winging it most of the time.  Don't give that up to a man.  You mean he'll be intimidated by you? Oh, yeah.   Do you have the capacity by asking a guy out on a date that'll make him pee his pants? Is that intimidation? I laugh at this. Listen, let's differentiate. A man could be envious of your financial success. That's not intimidation. He might be envious. Then he might be ashamed that he can't compete with you, but that's not intimidation. That might be shame and fear.  That's why coming back to the book, you've got to read this book if the Buddha dated.  Is this sinking in? Is this resonating with you? Please let me know. Get back to center. All right. Oh, Karine. Thank you for the $2.22 Super Sticker. I really appreciate it. That's Canadian. How should I approach dating 39-want children? With prayer. Intentional. What does intentional mean? Be crystal clear on the type of relationship you're looking for. But Jonathan, I know what I want. I know what I want. I know what I want. It's fascinating to me. Women go through my private coaching program, all saying to me, I know what I want. Then they go through this program.  They say, wow. Why didn't they teach me that in school? Why didn't my parents teach me this? Why didn't I learn this before I dated and married the wrong guy? I know what I want. I know what I want. I know what I want. You might think you know what you want on the surface level. But many of you do not know what you want beneath the surface. And it takes some exploration to uncover that. All right. That's me babbling right now. Thank you so much for that question. I really appreciate it. All right. Let's keep swimming. Anna writes question. How would you handle it when you know you're dating a life partner? Tell ASAP. You know, I think we can be attached to people through lust and limerence. And we can be attached to people both in unhealthy ways, but healthy ways, but unhealthy ways. Life partner means you're compatible with one another. Folks, if you're not familiar with my relationship, iceberg, I'm going to share this with everyone. There's attraction. That's what we first see. Shared values, blendable lifestyles and emotional maturity. That's where life partner comes in, including the chemistry. So if you have chemistry and attraction, but you're not life partners, how do you tell them? You just up front. You just up front and say, I don't feel like this is a relationship that will go the distance. And I'm moving on. You might want to have a conversation with them first, but be prepared for that. All right. JJ writes, Jonathan, thank you for having so much heart and passion as you share with us your wisdom. Thank you so much JJ. I appreciate that. All right, let's keep swimming in here.  I believe 20% of the population has the potential for that type of enlightenment. This go around and they're going to come back to Earth. And the next 20% will have a chance of that. 20% of that group will have a chance the next time they come back and the next time they come back. I think life is a journey of experiencing all different fruits of life, good, bad and ugly. I think if you're intentional about wanting to grow and you fully, listen, human beings spend more time brushing their teeth than actually doing introspective work. Human beings spend more time buying clothes than they actually do introspective work. Human beings spend a lot of wasted time in their life instead of genuine introspective work. You have to be intentional about it if you want to grow. Let's see what we got here. We got a psychic TV lady live. Jonathan, I caught live from the other side of the world. Finally, I love your book. Also bought eight dates on audible, even though I need to re-listen to it. Oh, thank you, Amira. Thank you so much. Ah, let's see. Let's go swim and see what we got here. All right, this will be our last question for the evening. Question, I've been seeing this guy for a year now and we see each other every week once, or we see each other once a week or twice a week. We're both seeing other people, but I feel we're getting closer. What to do?  I don't subscribe to that, folks. Bookson, I believe in dating one person at a time. The minute I met my beloved, and we agreed to explore a relationship, this was roughly within three weeks of meeting each other. We took our dating profiles off and we agreed to explore a relationship together. You don't have to do it that quickly. I'm not suggesting that, but we were intentional because we also wanted to have regular sex together and we read my dating vows to one another. Again, it's listed below. Folks, you can be intentional, or you're in a casual, you're kind of more in a situation. You're not even in a casual, at least a casual relationship is kind of a pseudo promise of monogamy and exclusivity, but you're not in that. You're in a situation in my humble opinion. You might think it's something different, but the question is, do you want a serious relationship and ask yourself, what does that look like? And does this relationship fit what your serious relationship looks like? That's my invitation for you. Penny, thank you so much for that question. All right, let's see what else we've got here. We've got a busy group. All right, let's see. Pam says, thank you. I have wondered too, if my subconscious thoughts of my friend with benefits might hamper finding the one. I'm so happy for you for kindly confirming my thoughts. Way to go, and I'm happy you're exploring that within yourself. Folks, I'm so honored to be able to share with you. I sometimes say it's the world according to Jonathan, but what I really am, folks, my role in life is just to share what I've learned and shake people up to possibly doing something a different way instead of the traditional narratives. And sadly, I see so many coaches out there people talking about women in a commodity or worse, women must be submissive. The sexual marketplace. You know, it saddens me. Not because I'm a man and care for women. I care about humanity. I care about human beings. I care about love, but more importantly, I care about relationships that have, that are, my whole focus in life is focusing on partnerships. That's what I found in my life. I believe I found my partner. And I feel like what I'm learning in this experience by viscerally sharing what I'm feeling is because I think at the root of it is what love is all about. You know, everything else is window dressing, every situation. But at the core, what I teach from my experience is how to drop a seed in the, in the soil and water it so it blooms to be a beautiful flower someday. By the way, that's not real, but that one is over there. My plant, my big plant. That's my invitation for everyone. So I hope I'm making a difference in your life. If I am, please hit that like button. Please share this video. Please subscribe to my channel. Check out the link to a free discovery call with me. Check out the links to my group called midlife love mastery where my girlfriend will be on next month. Check out my, oh, I've got my, I got my store. So there's going to be cups and things you can get from me as well. You can join me and follow me on Instagram or you can buy the books I recommend. All right. I think this will be a great place to wrap up this video. Again, I hope you found value. I'm going to wrap up this video as I always do.  I got the marriage of self love. I'm going to reach into the camera and give you a hug of love. If that's okay, I'm asking you to turn to someone, a pet, a teddy bear, a pillow. There's a teddy bear. There's a crystal heart in that bear. We can all use a lot of love and hugs are a great source of love. So I hope you go find someone to hug right now. And I'm wishing you a super duper of wonderful, fantastic evening. Thanks a bunch. Bye now. Oh, I want to say goodbye to, sorry. I want to say goodbye to Pam and Hillary and Joker and Kathy and Lisette and Winterlasen and Michelle and let's see, Envy. And I can't pronounce your name, Hillary. I said that, Amira, Trista, Jolie, everyone. Thanks so much. Have a wonderful evening. Bye now.


This is the build OGM call for Tuesday, December 7th, 2021, sorry, and I was just talking about an upcoming call with Gerald Davis for Weaving the World.  My question was going to be, what do we call this call? It's still build OGM, but tomorrow is no longer Generative Commons, it's Weaving the World. Tomorrow's morning's call is now the Weaving the World Operations call, exactly. Yeah, and so there we're going to talk details. Pete and Stacey and I have been in conversation about he is writing some automation so that the steps from, hey, we just finished a Zoom call to look at this pretty page for the episode, and it's got a transcript, and it's got pointers to recordings and all that, so that that actually happens as automatically as possible. And at this point, it's going to still take a whole lot of manual interruptions. To carry stuff from one task to the other, but we're trying to synchronize up so that his automation meshes with my work, meshes with possibly hiring somebody to do some video editing or some audio editing or something like that, because we don't know how much work is in each stage yet. Hi, Hank. Hi, hi, hi. And Happy Pearl Harbor Day, if that's the appropriate term I don't know that Happy's used a lot, but yes, indeed. Go ahead, Stacey. Can you hear me well? Yes. It's a little bit broken up, but we hear you just fine. Okay, so after looking at the one page, Weaving the World and being reminded of what's happening under the surface, I was thinking that what about if we invited people to contribute, when I'm talking about specifically people that do mapping. If we invited them to use whatever tool they're comfortable with to map the call in real time, they'll like to be there for the call and be taking notes and doing what they're doing as a way to include more people and then just see how that, even if it's just a one-time thing, have people doing it the different ways. And then at the end, when we put the call up, we can put the different graphic interpretations up. So can you easily do that? And that's completely the intention for the composting calls, for the second calls. I was trying to make this first recording as simple as possible, therefore not include other people and kind of make it just Daryl and me, but it's very tempting to do exactly what you said. But what you said is precisely in the invitation for the composting call. It's like, hey, there's this great conversation with a guy named Daryl Davis. Anybody, anybody with any mapping tools who'd like to come and map this, please join now. And we're going to do this together live and after and then contribute to this. And then all of those artifacts will also be on the episode page, which is one of the things that I hope distinguishes a Weaving the World episode from other normal things. Does that make sense? The other thing that I Yes, it does. But I just want to add, I think we had discussed this in another call, the idea of having a few people at least be able to show up adds to that personal connection. Because now you have, you know, let's say there's six people that show up, they're actually meeting the guest, which is very different than just watching. And also they don't have to go watch an episode afterward on their own time. They actually were in the conversation. That makes total sense to me. So what I could do is say, hey, if I could put out a call to all OGM mappers, anybody who would like to map this conversation, please, you know, our SVP, and I can bring them back, that would work. Mark, any strong feelings either way? Something slightly connected strong feelings aside, also kind of a call for a little bit of assistance.  Building a second brain is going to be there and basically thinks that he's going to have about 100 people show up for his kind of thing. In a virtual thing, right? This is not face-to-face. It is face-to-face.  Last Saturday was the foresight vision weekend, 2021, and there were 300 people there.   But certainly, the people here in San Francisco, like Bob Horn and Rikipa, I have a block remembering her name. Eileen Clegg? No, no, no. Just guessing. Sounds like. I'll come up with it later. Sophie, something? Sophie's choice? No. I'd buy Sophie. That's okay. She's probably in your MX. I'm looking. Oh, okay. But it's not. It's not Sophia. It's not Sophie. It's some other name. But one of the people who's doing the large mapping project based here in San Francisco, and I can't remember it. But I want to know. It'll come to you. You do know her. Yes. But basically, if there's a lot of people kind of breaking it up into those three areas, augmentation, mapping, mimics. But I'm hoping to introduce OGM at the least. And then perhaps I'm not sure exactly how to break things up. But 10 minutes for introduction, five minutes for questions might be short. Could be 10 and 10, 20 minutes for people. But certainly having a Zoom guest, Jerry, if you're interested. Yeah, that could work well. And the question would be, you know, trying to find out people who are doing mapping of their own of their encounters with media in Rome or obsidian or idea pad or whatever basically contribute. Cool. So that's on the 18th in the afternoon. Yes. San Francisco time face to face. That sounds very cool. And I do you know or remember that I'm the guest today? This Friday's archive launch? I was not told. Oh, okay. So I'm, you know, I'll be doing what Margaret did last week. Was it last week or week before? I think it was a week before. Yeah, I think it was a week before too. So I'll do 20 minutes worth of brain and OGM, just to sort of talk about it, because I'm just I'm just really interested in how what OGM is trying to get done layers into the kinds of work you were talking about that the archive would like to do. So so if you want to think about that as well, I think it would be it would be nice to coordinate a little bit so that you can offer some depth into, you know, what you smelled over here. Yeah, be happy to. Cool. Cool. Cool. You were talking about Darryl Davis, you're going to go on to the next one. Yes, Stacey and I, and also Stacy said was encouraging us to invite more people to the actual call on Thursday, which and if Darryl replies quickly, I can easily put an, you know, an all points bulletin out on OPB, on OGM, sorry, Oregon Public Broadcasting, OPB, interesting, and do that. So, and also I think it depends a little bit on what Darryl's comfortable with, but I'm sure he's comfortable with most anything given how brave I think he is for the work he's done. Yeah, although, although it's really interesting, a girlfriend long ago worked with authors and wound up working a little bit with Maya Angelou, who it turns out was like really kind of hard customer to work with and micromanaged everything about her appearances. And my take after the fact like in retrospect is that she was just managing because so many things had gone wrong over time because she was Maya Angelou and a huge character that she made sure every little detail went the way she knew it needed to go. And that was just the work she had to put in to not be taken advantage of to not have things get hijacked and not whatever, I don't know. But, but she was just like, you know, for a thorny client to have come in and do stuff. I have a listener and also a writer. Yeah, a recent podcast. Let's see who it was. Shermer. And I can't find it in the history. But basically, somebody named Shermer who does skeptics, something interviewing somebody who does psychological studies and basically saying that any competent journalist can make somebody look like a hero or a villain. Yeah, that's just totally true. And that struck me as Michael, Michael Shermer. Michael Shermer, thank you. Yeah, struck me as fantastically interesting where it comes to questions of choice and aesthetics. Yeah. So my undergraduate is an econometrics, which I refer to as how to lie with numbers, because with a little bit of econometrics training, I realized you give me a data set and then you give me what story you want to tell. And I can eliminate outliers, change the access, do whatever to probably tell your story. Right. So so that gave me really nice skeptical lens for when I see written articles that refer to numbers. I'm like, oh, let's just pause for a second, see what they've done here. And if the axis doesn't go down to zero, I'm like, really, some really brutally simple sort of stuff. How to lie with statistics. Exactly.  That's the title of a book. Hank, do you have any strong feelings about weaving the world early episodes being just me and the interviewee or inviting more people into it? Yeah, actually, since you've developed the idea in this way, within a composting session with a lot of different people, I would like to see if this works. You know, you and the person that you're speaking with in a dialogue in a conversation. And if you do it twice, okay, might work one time, might not work another time. Try the third time incorporating what you've learned. And if that's not satisfactory, use another idea, for example, Stacy's idea. So you're saying keep the first interview just to the two people. That's what I'm saying, because that's your conception of it. That was just a pragmatic step to do the simplest thing that could possibly work. That was where I was aiming. It was like, let's keep this as simple, let's do as few moving parts and as little embellishment as possible so that we get the whole thing sort of from start to finish done. As you know, I love group calls and I have no trouble sort of facilitating and keeping people at bay and whatever else. Stacy, go ahead. I was going to say the other people invited don't have to be speakers.  Or I can also give them space for the end of the call to ask questions. Right. I just think it's so important since we're talking about collaboration, you know, we're talking about mycelium and all this, that at every turn we want to that there'd be more fungal varieties for new connections. Yeah, I like that a lot, Stacy. It makes a ton of sense to me. May I make another thought building on what I said before? I think what Stacy is saying is good. I agree with you. The other thing is I listen to lots of podcasts, see lots of video, YouTube interviews and a one-on-one that really works can be a very powerful thing. So while agreeing with Stacy, I'd like to see if you can create that special power that, you know, two people finding themselves and engaging like that. Well, I mean, just a thought. I like that a lot and also in my life and in particular in Zoom life the last couple years, I find I've had a lot of conversations where it's just a first meeting between me and someone. And at the end of the conversation, I'm like, God damn it, I wish I'd recorded that because it went beautifully and there was this really like lovely thing created between us. And it's the little aha moment that I refer to. Sometimes it's like, you know, there was we made something that neither of us knew before from sharing knowledge and all that that little thing is what I'm trying to bottle. And the moment you turn it into a show and start to record it and all that it changes the setting of it. So then then you have to recreate that moment somehow and ignore the cameras and sort of get there, which makes intimacy of like just two people a little bit better. But as Stacy is pointing out, like the mycelial aspects of this are really, really interesting and important. And the community side of it that I'm just one I'm just one one weaver using one particular weird tool. And what's interesting here is the confluence of our multiple weavers acting on this in, you know, together, I think that's really important. Cool. And let me describe the second the second call that's that's we're booking right now, which is with Jesse Engel. So Jesse runs a good works house out of Santa Monica, where just before pandemic, they kind of had a co housing kind of arrangement with people with good intentions to try to solve the world. And it was kind of because Santa Monica and Venice Beach and all that have a strong arts community.  They kind of had a nice mix of people kind of coming through and then pandemic hits and it's like, Oh my God, we're running a we're running a collective living space. What do we do? So for a while, they sort of shut things down, then they started doing some virtual things well. And then they got into NFTs and the whole crypto world a bit. And and they're doing now. They're creating a good works dowel, where a piece of the money, they're sort of floating some some tokens to fund artists in Haiti in part. And so so there's a whole really interesting way in which they're trying to harness this new movement. And they're close to communities that are doing a lot of work in there and care a lot about it, but harness it for good is just like way too much NFT stuff is like just crazy and seems useless to me. And so so that's the second one that we're framing up and that's happening quickly because on the 15th, they're kind of launching this idea of the good work style. And we would like to do an interview and put it in the world as promotional material for them and as an episode of leaving the world for us. So that's the second one. And I'm on Discord. I've reopened a Discord client. Oh, good. So so Jesse just sent a note back saying 4 p.m. today. Cool. Mark, you're muted. Thank you. Is this Jesse Engel, the one I'm finding in Google research as well, senior research scientist? No, that's a different Jesse Engel. Okay. I don't believe he's ever had posted at Google.  Sorry. I'm sure I don't need to remind you, but I just want you to keep in mind your constrictions with today. I know. So I'm expecting to get a new machine delivered hopefully by 1 p.m. and FedEx has been totally disappointing me. Like the app has been worthless. So if it doesn't derive by then, then I kind of have a problem, a logistics problem. But I think, I think if I force the issue by booking this, then it's just going to cause the machine to show up, right? Right. You could always put a note on the door to the FedEx guide. There is a note on the door. There's a note on the door at this very moment. It's like knock loud, both on calls. But thank you. Agreed. Cool. So any thoughts on those things? Certainly here in the Bay Area, there are a number of co-housing groups. The most interesting that I've encountered of many is the embassy network. And again, COVID just... Michael Turner before. Oh, there goes Michael. Michael. Same thing happened on this side. It's like I'm looking for the video and back. I start stalking. Anyway, I will post the embassy network's sort of URL, but they've kind of started these intentional groups, which are incredibly interesting. The most interesting to me is kind of like the second chance house for people coming out of San Quentin. And a number of different experiments in community that happened at the Red Vic. Unfortunately, bad things happened, including COVID. And they kind of had to shut that down. But Zarina, what's Zarina's last name? Agnew, I believe. Just put on so many incredibly interesting scientists and was trying to do the type of weaving the world in person and community without the backup of mapping. But basically, highfalutin, critical theory plus neurology plus... I got Terry Deacon to give a talk at one of the science talks. And I'll spell it out because it's difficult. She and her partner who was now at Oxford studying philosophy really were poking in some very interesting areas, especially when it came to kind of intentional hedonism. It was far out wacky, funny, learned. And to give back to them, I would love to see them at least have a chance to participate in something that's more online. And are you recommending I approach them and we do something together? Are you saying... I'm really interested in reaching out to other people who are busy doing mapping also and having them be other forces in this stream, basically adding to the mapping into the layers and building out in whatever way they are good at. They love to do. So this is hopefully the beginning of a bunch of different kinds of collaborations and eddies of information as we feed the fungus. That's certainly the idea. When you were talking about one-on-one interviews, it reminded me of my campfires and basically getting two people together. And that three-ness seemed to be an incredible sense of participation, which doesn't quite come across in a video. You kind of have to be there interacting in person, getting all the perilinguistic cues, how they dress, their posture. You know, they're smiling, things that you don't get in even a Zoom call, say. Makes sense. Yeah, but I will approach them. And yeah, I mean, connecting people together is part of what all of this is about and figuring out how connecting can have side effects that create a residue that's valuable for other folk. And I'll mute.  And thanks for the embassy link. So a piece of what's happening with Pete is that we are figuring out a workflow and he's done a sort of a schematic of some of the workflow and we're figuring out where the moving parts are and all that. It's for a simple project that's relatively complicated. So again, we're trying to figure out how many things. Oh, Zarina. Wow. Cool. Thank you. You're muted again. Just agreeing that it is a complicated name. Yeah. Cool name. Yeah, it is. And a very cool woman. There's no picture here, but Pete, I was just invoking your demon. And so look, just like that. I was just mentioning that we're working through the logistics of the workflow for the episodes of Leaving the World and what that looks like. And then meshing together human effort and automation as much as we can and seeing where that goes. And I think you just saw on Discord that Jesse and I will be on at 4 p.m. today. Yep. Cool. Can you, for those of us who've never used Discord and have attempted to avoid it. It's remarkably like Mattermost and Slash, except it includes voice chat and other sorts of things that I haven't really used much. Right? Is that right, Pete? Yeah. Is it suggested to listen in? I can easily not. That's... Well, it's much less like Clubhouse than it sounds like. I think he's asking about the meeting with Jesse. Oh, the meeting with Jesse. I'm happy not. Sorry. I don't know. I think Jesse would be fine. Yeah, we haven't been doing... We kind of shied away from fishbowl calls, I think. Okay. So probably this one is a small group recording. Yep. Cool. And Pete, we also talked about Gerald Davis and I'm coordinating with him to see if Thursday still works. If not, pick a better date next week or whatever. And then we talked a bit through, okay, what would make a call with Gerald Davis under the auspices of Weaving the World different from your average, interesting podcast interview. So we went into some of the weaving stuff and Stacey recommended very nicely and just sort of hung on it for a while, just inviting other mappers into the call right up front and not making it just me and Darryl, but making it sort of me, Darryl, and a few mappers and putting out an all-points bulletin to OGM and say, hey, mappers, if you'd like to take a swing at this, here's a way to do it. And also say that we're going to do the composting call after, where we get another swing at this. Cool. And that we sort of cleared all that business right when you stepped in. Do you have any things you want to talk about here about the process and the workflow and stuff like that, since this is build OGM? Real quick question. I'm not expecting to be on with you and just say either, unless you want me there. I think it'd be totally great if you wanted to be there, but I'm, yeah, I feel like it'll be a better call. We're old friends, I think it'll work fine as it is. Otherwise, so I guess I think that I'm hoping out of, I think I'm hoping for OGM, as it bumps a little bit into Good Work House, is to learn a little bit from them how to be a little bit more connected to the world, a little bit more art and culture connected to OGM, and a little bit more more of the ability to reach out to a bunch of people and say, let's crowd fund this, this good work that we're doing. So Good Work House is in a place where they can do that. They've got a few more people or they've got more connectivity to, you know, their circles reach out a couple layers and get bigger than OGM circles. So I wish that, I wish OGM were like that more. We don't have or do a lot of arts things like sort of period. I think we have people who are interested in arts, but we don't go into those conversations much. We don't do a lot of work there.  So it's easier to nudge art into that kind of thing. You know, it's like, oh, look, we're doing the meetup and we decorated the walls. You know, there's people put up art on the walls. We're doing a meetup and by the way, we invited some live music this time, you know, that kind of stuff. So it's a little bit harder for us to kind of do it organically, I think. But I also think it's an important thing that we, OGM is a little bit like a walking brain instead of, you know, the whole human that sings and dances and plays. Yeah, exactly. And there are other events I attend sometimes that start with the guitarist playing a song or, you know, other sorts of things. And we're not taking advantage of that part of our of our beings much at all. We have a little bit of time, but since the pandemic, Brewster started every meeting at the Internet Archive with a musician or poet and giving them a stipend of about a hundred bucks for 10 minutes of play and the range has been absolutely incredible. Their last Friday was a Persian musician, I believe, playing the Ood or something like that. It was just incredible. That's lovely. Also very simple thing for Rex, which I started in 2010, every Rex meeting I would start with a poem. And that caused me to read a tremendous amount more poetry and find a whole bunch of delicious poems. And I would never pick up, I would, I don't think I ever read just excerpts of long poems, of epic poems or longer poems. But but I would, you know, so the size was a bit of a constraint, but it was just a delicious thing. And one time we had a guest with us who was really good at reading poetry. And he said, mind if I do this? And he stepped in and gave and gave like a great reading. I'm like, oh, man, that was awesome.  And it was an online space for when you entered, there was a banner that went across the page that said, please take a moment and send to yourself before entering here. And that's all it did. It didn't it didn't lock up your keyboard. It didn't, you know, there was there was no built in pause or anything. It just asked you to send it yourself. But it created like a little like a little liminal threshold where as you entered the space, it was a little bit more special and you'd be a little a little bit more mindful. So sometimes really tiny markers do a lot of work and work really well. Stacey.  But I just want to add that when you're actually with musicians or artists, there's something about the real world connections, you will have the most diverse group that you could imagine. You know, I mean, I go I know bands that some of them are lawyers, some of them are like unemployed scraping by, but they're all working together. And that's a function of being creators in that sense. So just, you know, that's the that's like when like Pete, they do they do have an advantage other than, you know, the real world, just in general, just the type of people that wind up being connected to each other. Yeah. Pete and I originally met through a common friend, David Eisenberg, who held an annual event for telecom geeks, and always invited artists to be artists in residence in residence during the entire event. And some of them were I mean, a lot all of them were excellent because his other passion, besides being a geek, a telecom geek is his music and he hosts people through his home in Woods Hole constantly. And has been a lifeline, I think for a lot of artists during lockdown, doing kind of the same thing in zooms and a little bit at face to face as things got a little bit better. But but some of those artists were fantastic. And one of them was really good with harmonicas, and disassembled his harmonicas for us and basically showed us how everything works and all the you know, all the little how you tune them, what you do to make your harmonica make notes, it's not supposed to make all that kind of stuff. He was just brilliant. And he was he was pretty geeky in sort of that sense as well. So so you get to know these people pretty well. So I'm going to just put out my my wish for the future one day I want to see an OGM band. And I want to hear Pete playing in it because I know that's a passion you have, you know, like a softball team, except instead of bands that I'm putting it out to the universe. I like that. And you're reminding me, in Argentina, there was an obscure band called Le Lucier, Wikipedia page, here we go. So and I visited my dad in Argentina in 1979 for half a summer, I think, and he got us tickets and we went to see Le Lucier. And these guys basically started as music students in a at an Argentine university. And they began doing home built instruments. So they invented the tubofono acrílico chromatico, basically the acrílic tube that that is is a chromatic instrument. And they made a whole bunch of homebrew instruments. Then they invented the character Johann Sebastian Mastropiero, which I who I put here, who is obviously meant to be in the line of Johann Sebastian Bach. But then they created stories and they had this narrator with a booming voice, and they created these hilarious stories about the adventures of Mastropiero, who was basically an ignoramus with no talent. And then they would break into songs of different kinds and some of which I have here, I'll show this link in our chat in a sec. But they were just brilliant and really fun.  So I think they provided some relief in some sense. But there was there was one where they they described a march, basically like a military procession on some festival day. And they described the ranks of everything else. And then in the middle of the marks surrounded by guards are the last Mapuches, basically still alive, who are the native inhabitants of Patagonia, right? And so there's there's like every piece of the army surrounding this poor band of Mapuches in the middle. So so they were they were political and ironic. But I think they had limits for what they could do back in the day. All right. What other although jammy things are sort of in our heads right now? Because if we don't have any other any other moving parts to do, maybe we fold our calm. Kind of probably a little bit off topic, but maybe not entirely. I ran into my first serious air table problem last night. I've got a client I'm doing some air table work for and part of that air table work. I've got a script that creates a fancy set of tables. And last night it just broke. You know, it's been working fine for months and it just catches errors. And so creating a table or creating a fields and tables throws an error. Really frustrating. This was late last night. So I sent an email and got an auto response and says, well, back me back at you in an hour. And it actually took a little bit longer than an hour. But some nice person Aaron wrote back this morning and said, wow, I've repeated, you know, I've replicated it on my machine and I've sent it over to engineering. And by the way, did you think of this work around, which I hadn't? And so it's clumsy and clunky and stuff and took some engineering to get the work around installed, but the work around is working more or less. I assume they've got a pretty good community online of people solving problems. Yeah, they've got it. It's actually running a discourse. Which I was going to ask, yeah, it's probably on discourse or discourse. It's fun when you know discourse and the interface because if you don't, it's a little clunky. But once you do, then it's like, oh, I know why this or which thing to reply. So I posted a thing last night. I posted the same thing to the community and to tech support and got a response a few hours later from somebody who said, yeah, we've got that problem and this other one. And I checked on Twitter and there's somebody with the other problem. So it's a weird, I thought the highest of air table and they're still pretty, they're still way up there, but it's the kind of bug that you ship that you shouldn't ship. Maybe they moved something in the code. They changed, you know, the other problem is it's when you create tables or fields, they don't pick up right away. They don't exist. The system doesn't think they exist. So if you go to use them, they're not there until you refresh the page, which of course, that's not something you do in a script. So yeah, it's like, you know, at least thank goodness it's not data loss or something like that. Yeah. So shaking your confidence in the tool. A little bit, except for Erin, I was pleasantly surprised with Erin because she really went above and beyond to, you know, front-line support tech shouldn't have come up with the work around she did. Cool. Yeah, thank you. Anyone else with anything relevant or questions about that? I was actually looking for a poem. Wow, love that. Oh, there we go. I kind of find all these things. I kind of lose them because I stopped being a poet. That was a sad sentence. No, I think calling oneself a former poet is much more poetic than actually self-identified poets. But it also means that you're not a poet, which is a loss in the world. Yeah. It is more poetic, I guess. But can you ever be a former poet? I don't know. Allow me. Some time ago, I was riding a bus downtown and came across a large green field with tiny blue flowers. I'm surprised to be in this meadow between all these trees. Somewhere, past leaves branching over my head, a thin river trickles by. I'll be walking through the dew, getting my fingers wet from the tops of the flowers when I get off the bus. That's beautiful. Yeah, thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. I just put a link in boop, boop. So for Rax, I was doing a poem with meetings, and here are the poems that I read. Here are the poems that I did read. Democracy by Dorian Lowe, Eden then and now, Dutch, Dusting, Dreamwood, these are all poems, each of which is connected to the poet, of course, so Forrest Hammer. Here's the call that I read that poem on. I would make that link as well, which was kind of fun.  Next to poems read in Rax is poems for Rax, and these were poems that I had not yet read in the group, and as I read them, I would sort of move them over.  You're not displaying them. There's a lot of poems here. Oh, okay. I was wondering about that. Wow, that's fascinating. I think I need to reboot my brain because there's a whole bunch of material that just didn't display. Let's try that again. Come back, make that call. Yes, poems for Rax. So this is just A through C. You can see the scroll bar down here. So these are all, my filter for poems for Rax or read in Rax was, would this carry to start a meeting? Is it sort of in the right size range, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? So I'll put links to, I just put a link to one of these thoughts in my brain, and these are like fun. These are, and poem a day is fantastic. There's a couple poem apps. Poetry.com has a poetry app that's beautiful, that kind of randomizes. They've tagged up all the poems by theme and content. So if you want a sad poem about summer, you can kind of set the little whistle, and it'll show you a bunch of poems that resonate for that theme and so forth. It's really cool. One other thing is I was writing in hyperknowledge the other day, and reading one of my favorite, rereading one of my favorite books called The Poetics of Mine by UC Berkeley professor, basically arguing that we give too much credit to non-figurative thought that basically language is primarily metaphor and the mind has a basic poetic structure. And so I have been intending to create a poetics aspect or poetics channel within Mattermost and kind of wondering, you know, basically what are the poetics of mapping, the poetics of augmented intelligence, the poetics of intelligence, you know, my central research theme. Here I'm reading Problems of Art, Susan K. Langer, morning, is, thank you, Jerry, that's the book exactly. Gibbs is the author. Yeah, Gibbs. And very interesting man, Gibbs. Raymond Gibbs, if I remember correctly. But basically, what are the aesthetics of knowing? And I was reading from, oh, Bateson's second book of essays, A Sacred Unity this morning as well, where he really is talking about, you know, the possibilities of when we are thinking about the conscious, how adaptation is tied to conscious purpose, if there's kind of an aesthetic determinism that goes anywhere from the alpha member of a group being more beautiful, you know, having better boots, you know, who knows, to, you know, just not exactly knowing what aesthetic rules are when it comes to the sense that someone has a green thumb, they have a better ability to deal with complex and living systems than other people, and they kind of grok the ability to see the whole rather than have the immoral short-sightedness that's almost intentional to say, no, I only want to look at this one thing, everything else, no, we can't talk about that. And, you know, kind of the ecological damage that comes from that. Anyway, the questions of aesthetics are very central in what I'm trying to figure out. And it's not, you know, physics is much easier, or it feels much easier to me to basically have that kind of understanding that, as Bateson say, the pathology of the way we currently do science is, you know, just more comfortable. I just grew up with it. We all did, apparently. There you go. Thanks, Mark. Michael, you just stepped into the philosophical sort of end of our conversation. And we were just through a bunch of different kind of OGM-y business, but thinking about wrapping the call, and then we got into, sort of, we kind of got back into a theme that came early in the call, which was, how do we fold more art into our community and into our activities? So, whether that's being connected to local artists or other sorts of things. Good to see you. Yeah, how many former poets are there in OGM? We have a lot of good poets, actually. A lot of, like, Neil, who's gotten busy in the meantime, but he was reading poems for us. Michael, you were just saying something, sorry. Oh, I was just saying, I figured dropping in late was better than not being here at all, so that was all I was going to say. Oh, thank you. And thanks for being here. Thanks for the catch-up. Cool. Good. I think that's a lot of food for thought, and a lot of things for design. We've got places to go, and shall we wrap the call? Cool. Well, thank you all. More soon. Appreciate it. Thanks.