or work here at a remissation development and I'm also a playwright. I'm Rachel Mox. I'm a fellow here in Greek sales and audience development. My name is Alyssa Getches. I'm a local artist and recovering literary literature. Stupid. I was majoring in a playwright. He's going to be Gregory. I'm a playwright. Rebecca Gingrich-Jones. I'm a D.C. area playwright and along with Gwydian Sullivan, one of the co-moderators of the D.C. area playwright's group. He's sorry you can't make it tonight. I'm Pat Comily. I'm a D.C. area local playwright and I'm a director also. Luna Temeco. I'm visiting. Luna's my partner in life in all the industry. Yep. It happens to be in D.C. with me in the industry. My name is Erin Washington. I'm a new play producing editor. Hi. I'm Danielle Moulin, D.C. area playwright and also the company manager at Studio Theater. I'm Kevin Becerra and I'm one of the new play producing fellows. Cool. All right. Well, we have one minute before we start. Is that right, Pajae? Yep. So I, oh yeah, Erin, come on in and sit down. Introduce yourself, Erin. Have a seat and introduce yourself. And then that'll make it seven o'clock and then I can actually officially start. My name is Erin Malkin and I'm the senior literary fellow here. So I'm going to make this a kind of a Q&A. Are you ready for me, Pajae?  So the idea of this thing we're calling knowledge sharing comes out of basically two things, which is the first is we're trying to establish in this last couple of years what the new play institute that we're working on here at Arena is. And there's a lot of clarity that we have playwright residencies. There's not a lot of clarity about what else we do. And so there is a kind of whole other, lots of other things that happen besides the great and much more newsworthy part of giving money to playwrights. And that thing is really about a commitment by the institute, you know, which is the work of David Dower, you know, being so moved by the real reason that the regional theatre movement started, which was about believing that theatre had something to offer beyond just sort of a commercial value, that it wasn't just about commerce, buying tickets and putting butts in seats, that it was really a knowledge, a value proposition and it was based in, you know, sharing resources with communities and that it was a part of a kind of cultural commons and the cultural commons being, you know, like a library or like public works or like the hospital or it's something that you bring that yeah, there's a cost to it and yes, you know, there's money exchange but there's also value above and beyond that. So the institute is very much, there's a kind of what we like to call a documentation and dissemination portion of the institute that's very interested in reinvigorating that commons idea and figuring out what are the ways in which we can share resources with one another and bring the theatre back to that value proposition that started it but using 21st century technology. So it's just sort of, I like to think of it as looking back to move forward and so we have this goofy, not goofy, I say that in the case, like don't say goofy, we have this great thing, we play TV. It's only goofy when you're being filmed on new play TV that it feels very good to be, but we have this great thing, new play TV and it allows people who are not in town to be a part of conversations that they otherwise wouldn't be able to be and sometimes, I don't know, maybe one person will watch tonight, maybe next week somebody will see the video of this and maybe it'll be two people and maybe it will double the room, who knows. It's not really, we know we're not broadcasting into 50,000 homes nationwide but we are comfortable with that and it's a relatively new tool and we're going to let, if anybody wants to, David Dower is in a Starbucks in San Francisco, I just got a tweet from him. So we at least know that David is watching. We have a couple people? We have a couple people? We have a couple people? We have a couple people? Yeah. So that was impetus one, which is this idea of knowledge sharing. Impetus two is of the many conversations I've had over the years I worked in the theater, the one that gets asked of me all the time is the question of, this question of agents and I've had it at least a thousand times and I thought, wow, what if I did that same conversation to more than one person? How efficient would that be in a sharing of resources? So this is actually a selfish gesture on my part. And then finally I thought I personally wanted to meet some DC playwrights because unfortunately I've not been in town much because of projects that I'm working on, some work I'm still doing in Chicago and so I haven't really had an opportunity to do that so this was also an opportunity to invite you all to come and say hello. So that's the reason we're here. What I want to do is say a couple things about this topic at hand and just talk a little bit about this agent question and then really take questions from you and let you kind of drive what you don't want to tell you what you want to hear. So the question of agents comes up all the time. For me, I've been working with playwrights at all stages of their careers for a number of years now. In my work at the Playwright Center in Minneapolis I did a lot of work with emerging writers in particular where that question comes up. I also had that conversation all the time with people frustrated with their current agents who are further along in their careers who feel their agents aren't doing what they should be doing. And I feel like we're in a very evolving culture in the American theater so I have some, like most things I have relatively strong opinions about agents and that conversation.  That's a pretty standard reply. But I would like to lay the groundwork of how I feel the agent business currently works and why the conundrum of finding an agent is such that it is. And I see that groundwork as mostly the way that emerging playwrights in particular, but any playwright, particularly how you get an agent in the early phase of your career, is you go to one of about five graduate schools. And those agents park outside of those graduate schools. I mean, I get to say, because I get invited to respond to all those festivals and I feel like we just have to have transparency about it.  And very likely you'll get an agent. That's the way you get an agent when you've had no success to speak of but you have promise, right? And that's really become a narrow version. I mean, it's really narrowed. Like I can tell you, when I started in this business kind of mid-90s we used to pick these emerging Jerome Fellows from the Playwright Center and those emerging fellows often were pre-MFA. So they would be, they'd come before their MFA and they really got selected based just on their script in a sense. And then within 10 years, and that's a short time in history, I like to think of 10 years as, you know, super fast, within 10 years we almost had no Jerome Fellows who didn't have an MFA coming in for the Jerome. So, you know, I'm sure there's an exception and maybe there's an exception, I'm not there now but I can tell you what I know. And those MFA students were all coming with agents right out of graduate school from one of those top MFA programs. Pretty standard. So just to say, the cards are stacked against you as a playwright out in the world writing plays to just find an agent. You know, so the question becomes, well, okay, I'm not at one of those five graduate programs, so then what do I do, right? And then for those of you who have an MFA, you know, you have an MFA, for those of you who don't have an MFA, you then have to ask yourself a question, do I want to get an MFA? And will that be the solution to catapulting me into the next level of a career? We can talk about MFA questions, I have opinions about that. And so feel the free that that's a question to be asked. But if you're not, so if you're not coming out of one of those MFA programs and the question becomes what do you do? And I think this is where, you know, I sort of say, it's not that you shouldn't try to get an agent, but my suggestion to you is that not be your primary focus.  They're in the world to make money. That doesn't make them bad people. I find them to be people who desperately love the theater and are very committed. Some have had been theater artists, they've been writers and dramaturgs and directors and those things. So it's not about that, but this is how they're making a living. And if you're a writer who's not getting productions that pay anything, so if you're self-producing, right, so there's no money in it for the agent, if you self-produce, if you're a writer who's not getting productions where there's a royalty check coming in, they don't make any money on that. And so hence, they generally don't go out looking for you. They go out looking for the people they think are going to get productions and bring, I mean, it's a money proposition. So production becomes how to build a career without an agent. And I think this is where it really is about figuring out how to make your work. And so my suggestion to you, and I saw this in Chicago better than any other community I've lived in, and I haven't lived in D.C. to say it's here or not here, but in Chicago, there's an incredible, what they call the storefront theater scene, and that storefront theater scene is a very savvy engine of that community. I think it's quite a model for how a city supports theater artists. And those companies, they form for often very short periods of time, three years, four years. They do a lot of shoestring budgets, but they produce plays.  And then it becomes like, the storefront scene in Chicago becomes like a theater system in a way for that kind of larger theater scene. And it's not that those playwrights are making in that storefront scene, they're not making a career, they all have day jobs, most of them. It's not that they're making a career out of it yet, but they're making a reputation in a name and they're getting that valuable experience of writing plays. And there's nothing like writing plays and seeing how they fail to know how to become a better playwright. And that can never happen. It can never happen, A, from you just writing plays and then putting them in a drawer. It can never happen, B, from you just writing plays, sending them to me, I read them and say, you're my notes. Your play won't get better that way. Your play will get better when you put a bunch of collaborators in a room and figure out what works and what doesn't work with it. And that's, believe me, I'm not saying that's easy, but I'm saying that to me that's time well spent. And what I think you have to figure out when you're trying to be a theater artist is what's time well spent? What is time well spent for me? And I had a conversation with a writer who's been around for a while on Friday who was saying, this is a writer who's, I'm guessing in her fifties or something, been around and saying, I'm getting more active in my own work. I see that this idea of sending my plays out is not a way to make a living as a playwright. And this is somebody who's had a lot of productions and teaches at a fairly prestigious place. And still at this stage of that person's career is saying, I have to become more active in my own work. And so I feel like there was, I think there was a day, and certainly Edward Albee and others at the Dramatist Guild will tell you about that day if you ask them. There was a day when people sent out their plays and people loved them and they got done. That time isn't really here now. It's part of why my colleague David Dower got in trouble with the whole submissions policy by just telling the truth of that time has passed. It doesn't really exist anymore. And we can throw stones at each other about that or we can kind of embrace what that reality is and figure out how to go forward. So that's kind of my point of entry. And I'll just stop there and say, questions as you want to go. But that's, and then we can talk in any kind of specifics that you want to talk. Comments, questions, yeah. I guess I have a sort of chicken egg question. Yeah, yeah, you bet. Because you're saying that agents want, obviously they're interested in potentially revenue producing scripts. But it's very difficult to get a play in front of a theater that's going to generate some real revenue without an agent. So that's the question. It's like, how can you, how do you maneuver that so that you can get yourself in a position where maybe you've got a script that is potentially revenue producing but you need that agent to help you get it in front of the right people? Yeah. How do you work that? Yeah, so I think it's a great question. And I'm going to say a couple of things. It's probably not going to, they're not going to be earth-shattering things, but I do think there's a way, and I live with a writer, so I sort of know this, but the writer personality in particular tends to be fairly introverted. And that's not true always. There are some exceptions to that, but I don't find that most playwrights I know, my experience of working with a lot of playwrights over the years is what makes them so valuable, such a valuable resource is that the way they inhabit the world is particular and necessary to how one sees the world and tells those stories. It tends not to be the person who, you know, wants to go to coffee all the time and really know people and get to meet people. And then, you know, but I think it's a couple of things. I think one is, I think you have to be willing to sort of put yourself out there pretty much all the time in this business, and I find that, I also find, as a general rule, theater artists, myself included, are incredibly thin skinned, and so it takes a kind of really thick skin to put yourself out there all the time.  That's not really useful. But I think it means, you know, reaching out to as many people in the theater, you know, first of all, it's you doing your homework. You have to do your homework and research theaters that really make sense. Like, Steppenwolf was a perfect example. When I worked at Steppenwolf, Steppenwolf has a range of work that it does. Okay? Like, Steppenwolf, unless it's Tina Landau, Steppenwolf doesn't verge on anything that is pretty much gritty realism.  It's totally ensemble-driven. It has to suit the ensemble and it has to suit the acting ensemble. So, I'll give you an example. There are no Asian actors in the acting ensemble at Steppenwolf. So if you have a six-character Asian play, you're not going to get produced at Steppenwolf. But people don't realize that because they haven't done their homework, right? So first you have to do your homework of what kind of work the theater produces. And you have to really look closely and go, and, you know, not your dream of being in that place, but the truth of your work, does your work fit in that theater? And then, if you can really answer, yeah, I see, you know, what I do there, but immediately, if you do that, you should stop focusing on a whole bunch of theaters, right?  So then you start to narrow in on, okay, here are five theaters or here are 10 places that I'm really interested in. And then it becomes about how do you build relationships and how do you become a part of that community? If you're young and you're not, you know, you don't have three kids to support, you do things like get internships, you volunteer, and you become part of a dialogue in that community. The number of people I have seen come through large theaters with resources who get to have experiences and participate in what's going on in that community, it's because they did their time working in that place. Now, if you have three kids and a family, and you can't do that, then you have to figure out other ways you get there. So I would say you figure out who you want to build your community with and make your liaison to it, and you focus your energies there. The other thing I really suggest is to look at those organizations, and there are a lot of them now who are doing new play development. Those play development centers have their finger on the sort of the pulse of what's happening in the American theater, even some of the smaller ones do, and a lot of organizations have respect for what those companies are doing. And if you can get, you know, you know, if you can get your play read, you know, at one of the Lark's bare bones series, if you can get your play in at the Playwright Center, if you can get into the core writer program at the Playwright Center, if you can, you know, go out to the Seven Devils Conference, those are invaluable opportunities to meet other theater artists, to make connections in the field. You should be applying those play development opportunities. You should be applying to all of them all the time, because those are places where they do read every submission, right? You know, the truth of these big institutions is they don't and they never will, I'm not saying they never will, they never will next week anyway, so don't focus there, right? So, but what those other places do, and they're worth your time and your energy, and you know, here's the other thing I say and I can only say this from my own experience and whether I should admit this and be proud of it or not, but when people come see me, I always remember them. When people email me, you know, go to a city where you want to work, whether that's D.C. or Chicago or Minneapolis or San Francisco, and meet all the people who are doing the kind of work that interests you, because I mean, I've met a ton of people who used to come through Minneapolis or came through Chicago, and I remember them and I'm still in touch with a lot of them and I hear from them and we still connect, you know? And then the other, the final thing I would just say is, in the meantime, while you're doing all that work and getting your rejections and putting on your thick skin, find a way to be active in this field and this will be my 22nd commercial for the New Play Institute, you know, which is an article to be on HowlRound. Write something for our blog.  So that was a super long, my answers are so long, I'm going to be like 17 hours, so I'm sorry if my answers are so long. Other questions? So, say that you do get lucky enough to have a production and that production goes very well and it spawns another production in the storefront theater in another location, it spawns another production in the storefront theater in another location and you're getting positive feedback for that but it's all at that level. What's the possibility of stepping up to the next level and how do you get somebody to be, how do you get to that next level? Yeah, I mean that's the, you know, that is the million, I'm sure I would have a bigger job if I knew the answer. I do have some million other questions. A couple of things, so one is first of all is to look around where you've had success. So look at those storefront theaters, is there anything to leverage there? Is there an artistic director who does know an agent? You know, because you have to ask for favors in this business, I mean, I have to say the agent, the reason I wanted to talk about this, I feel like the agent conundrum is big and you know I've gotten some people agents over the years but for as long as I've been in this business and as many recommendations I've made, I would say that's not time well spent for even me. You know what I mean? Like it's just not, it's not how it works, you know? And so, but what I would say is you want to call in every favor you have. You know, you've got to figure out how to, that's what this business, that's part of the knowledge sharing that we're, you know, we have to start, we have, if there's anything, you have to have generosity in this business and you have to ask for it and you have to give it, you know? So one is, is there anybody in there who you feel like can help you get to the next level because there's a conversation happening that you've got to figure out what that conversation is? The other thing I would say about a play like that that's successful is if that play is really successful and it hasn't had like a, you know, an equity production, I'm going to call it equity and not professional because I think it's professional. But it has an equity production. You know, a lot of times you can take that play and get it in a play development workshop.  You've got to, partly you've got to play the game and if I was going to say to play the game is get into that play development center with that good piece of work if it hasn't had that professional production because the truth is even in the storefront scene, you know, the only way a storefront playwright, you know, really has a chance at anything more is it like, you know, Chris Jones gives it four stars at the Chicago Tribune and he goes and sees that storefront play. But otherwise, you know, you have a really good business storefront, you know, people really liked it. That won't necessarily take you somewhere but you've got to play all your connections, you know. So you kind of play all your connections and use that good play and apply for everything with it.  I don't know how it happens. It's partly luck and it's partly just utter perseverance in this business because I tell you, if you're not looking in the long haul in this business, like you should just run out of this room right now. You know what I mean? Because like this is not a short haul kind of business, so. Other? May I interject with a tweet question? Yes, a tweet question, yeah. So, at Maricela Torta, I call her the weekly howler. Yes, yes. She says, you mentioned the MFA career track. For those who can't do an MFA, do you think the online networking is becoming an alternate path? Well, you know, somebody was saying to me the other day, a person I only know through Twitter, although met in person on Saturday was saying that, you know, she'd been sending plays and resumes and things to Bob Falls for like 300 years and now Bob Falls, you know, the artistic director of the Goodman is on Twitter. And so she's actually having conversations with Bob Falls and, you know, couldn't get near that without Twitter. So I would say the answer is in part yes to that. The thing I would say about the MFA and believe me, you know, as somebody who, I was part of a mentorship program through TCG where I was the mentor and they were paying the student loans of my mentee while I was putting my checks in the mail for my student loans that I was still paying and I seemed so wrong. I thought, well, should they pay my not first and then pay hers off? So I know how expensive that is. The thing I'd like to say about the MFA is, you know, the social media networking is terrific. What's great about the MFA, what's great about school, I'm kind of an MFA fan, not for the price of it, but for the opportunity to get better at what you do. I've never known anybody who didn't get better when they took the time in their MFA. It's like, you know, the MFA, if you can possibly do it, it's the great gift you give yourself. I just, it's like a total, for you to say for two or three years of your life I'm a writer, that will change you forever and I don't believe in it, you know, for the reasons that other people will say to do it. I believe in it for that because at your core, the way to survive this business and the way to sort of, you know, trudge through and, you know, hang in there when you don't have an agent is to believe that you're a writer. When you believe that, and there's something about that affirmation that I think it emboldens people in a way that's really useful. So, but if not that, I feel like that's a great question and using those networks critical. And I've definitely, I'm not going to know don't tweet this out, but I've been, you know, I've read plays and connected with writers that I wouldn't have because I, you know, because of social networking. So, for sure. Yes. I'm wondering if you have any particular advice for women because the statistics are stacked against female playwrights as we all know. Run like the lead. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. I have a really interesting experience. I've been working on, not working on really, I just have been around, Not done any work on it, I don't know why use that word, I've been around and helping produce a work shop of Lisa Cron's Fun Home.  And I, listing to that musical, on it. Sundance recently, I thought to myself, God, you know, all these years, I've been in the theater and I've never thought the American musical really spoke to me. And I thought, oh, this is like an American musical that speaks to me. Like, we're a weird business that way, like that I've been in the business as long and I haven't had a musical that's really related to my life in a way. It kind of took me by surprise because I just kind of watched the musical sometime and I thought, that's an interesting form. I wonder who that speaks to. I don't know. Do I actually know the answer to that? You know, so to say, you know, we have a long way to go in the theater about who makes work and who we make work for. And I feel like that evolution and revolution is kind of coming in this way that's super exciting to me. You know, I feel like it's kind of like, like nothing is really impossible now. And what I really love, I mean, I just feel like the 21st century for me, I just like, I'm so grateful to be a part of it because we actually have this kind of means for the, so we can control the means of production in a way that we never could before. We can have conversations. We can talk about these kind of issues in ways that embarrass people so badly that they actually have to produce women writers. So I mean, my feeling about that is, you know, I feel like, you know, I really feel like in terms of that question, it's like, you just have to write true to yourself.  You kind of have to write true to yourself. And then you have to be a part of the solution for the problem, you know. And I feel like for me, I'm a kind of glass half full person.  And I think we have a whole generation of, you know, young women who are coming up looking for stories.  There's a woman, Sarah Govins, who's a Chicago writer who has a play called FML, you know, How Carson McCuller Saved My Life and has written this, you know, lovely play about a young girl who comes out in, you know, in high school and Steppenwolf's going to produce it in January in their young adult series. So like, I feel like it's about like writing the stories that need to be told and trusting that there's going to be a place for them. And I think of people, there have been some really inspiring, I mean, really inspiring writers to be in that regard.  And one is Melissa James Gibson as the others, Lisa DeMore. And Lisa's been telling like, you know, weird stories about women forever and ever. And they're so terrific.  So I feel like there's some kind of weird window there.  So, but I, you know, can we solve gender problems? And I probably not, but, you know, but I think you just have to kind of own and feel confident, you know, we're ready. That era's got to be over, right? It just, like, I almost have to deny it as a problem. You know, at some level, you have to just go, I'm not even going to accept that as a problem. I'm just going to make the work that I believe in. So, yeah. Question, you mentioned the Seven Devils Conference. Are there any other key conferences that you think playwrights should really be at and really be present? Yeah, that's a good question. What are the conferences?  You know, of course, there's the O'Neill Conference. Of course, Lark has their reading series. Playpen has their reading series in Philadelphia. I mean, there's actually, the way I would answer this question is better than my memory, which is lame. What I would say is, you know, two things. One is on our new played blog, you know, we're putting up all of writer's opportunities.  But you get, like, every writer's opportunity that's ever, I always said the Playwright Center membership was one of the best things you could have if you were a playwright, because it's literally, like, every opportunity that's ever out there. And there's a ton of them. I mean, there's 10 minute play festivals. You know, what I, I always say, there's like a tool kit that I say, you know, to playwrights in particular, but theater artists in general. The first thing is you have to figure out how you're gonna feel like an artist every day. And so you just have to figure out what that means, you know, you have to get up every morning and go, how do I feel like an artist today? I have to do that today. There can't be a day that goes by that you don't feel like an artist. That is, like, number one, if you don't do that, you're, it's like cutting, you might as well just cut off your finger every morning. You know what I mean to like, don't do that. It's very painful. And so, so that's one, you know, that's one, and one way to do that is just to be like, I'm gonna get that submission out. I'm gonna get that play done. I'm gonna get that 10 minutes scene.    And then the other is, what I always tell people is, you know, become your own arts administrator, you know, be your own grant writer, take those courses about grant writing, like learn how to write a grant. Like I'm telling you, playwrights do not know how to write grants. They think because they know how to write, they're grant writers. Those are actually different skills. And so, you know, yeah, see? Right?  You know, you really have to take on those things and now like, it's so easy to do that. I mean, I actually, I've been able to publish a journal. I don't know anything about, I mean, I could learn WordPress in a weekend. You know what I mean? Like these are things, you have control of the means of production.  You know, you've gotta feel like an artist every day and you have to be responsible for your own arts administration.  And even for the best writers, you'd be surprised how much of their own stuff they still have to do, you know? The writers that you look up to and go, this is where I wanna be, are looking and going, how do I, I don't know how to do this still. I mean, it's a hard, it's a hard, you know, it's a hard choice. Other, do you have other questions before we, questions before we finish up? Let's see here. David Dyer wants to remind you that there's no such thing as don't tweet this out when you're live streaming. We gotta love David Dyer. Thank you, David. Mark Armstrong for, mentions other conferences such as Playpen, the Denver Center for a New Employee Summit, JW, PCS, such things. Yeah, just general people just loving you. Any other questions? We're right at about, let me take one more if you want to. I have a two-part, well, I guess a B to the NA. So how about like convenings? Because like the conferences are one thing and then development, you know, workshops are another, but then like places where you can just meet other playwrights, artistic directors, agents, so just like where the community just comes together. Yeah, it's a great question. I know there's a TCG conference. I know and it costs a lot of money and you gotta fly usually wherever it is and that kind of thing. So yeah, I mean that's such a good question. I feel like I don't know where the new, I'm not really sure, I mean I think those conversations tend to happen at those festivals. So like Humana's actually, Humana's probably a really good place to go because like all the literary managers are down there, the agents are all down there. I mean if you want to just hang in the scene, Humana's a really good festival and I think the other one is Denver New Place Summit is a really good festival. I find the work there is really terrific too and you can just again be kind of in that world and those are the gifts you should give yourself. If you can, if you can get yourself to those places, they're also slightly less expensive. I mean TCG has like a, maybe I don't know, $400 price tag for entry I think or something for $500. Those places I think Humana, it's more like the price of tickets so it's not quite as, maybe not quite as pricey upon entry but I think just looking at those kind of, you know whatever, oh Pacific Playwrights has a pretty good festival, that's another place where there are a lot of, you know, theater types hanging out, artistic directors and others.  What are people looking at and feeling excited about because almost all those plays that come through those festivals went through a pretty rigorous selection process and there really were a lot of plays read and they, you know, they for some reason funneled to the top. So all right, well, I think that, are we done streaming, Vijay? Yep.


Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2015 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. I remind everyone to switch mobile phones off as they affect the broadcasting system. Agenda item 1 is about taking a decision on business in private. Do we agree to take agenda item 2 in private? This is an item of correspondence sent to the Presiding Officer from Jim Murphy MP. Are we agreed? No, I would like to say that it could be taken in public. I don't see why it should be in private. Could you perhaps comment on that? Well, I will explain that I thought that at this meeting we might discuss it in private, and if we wish to... I'm in your hands, I'm not... Nobody wishes to... I'm quite happy to take it in public if you wish, right? I would like to, because I don't see that it should be in private. That's absolutely okay. We'll take it in public in that case. Let's not worry about that. Okay, that's agenda item 1 dealt with, and agenda item 2 is to consider correspondence received by the Presiding Officer from Jim Murphy MSP. MP, you're perfectly correct, MP. There is also the letter that the Presiding Officer has sent back to Jim Murphy in which he says in the last paragraph that I'm passing the letter to the committee for us to consider. Does anyone wish to comment? Yes, David. As everyone here knows, we've got a very good system here, a very tight system that deals with the sort of issues that have been raised here by Jim Murphy. I presume it's in the back of Members of Parliament who have been found to be possibly doing things they shouldn't have been doing. You know, Mr Murphy wants us to tighten that, but of course we're already looking at that in other ways in the committee. That's been ongoing now for some time. We could obviously take his comments into account, but I think I would be slightly concerned if people thought that we were reacting to this and that there were things going on here that had been happening elsewhere, because we really do have a system here that is very open and very transparent. I'm pretty confident in the current system, to be honest, and also given what's going through in terms of lobbying and all the rest of it, we're tightening up and we've got a history of looking regularly at ourselves, at our systems, and improving things as we go along. Patricia? Yes, convener. I think that the very interesting thing about Dave's comments, if I may say so, is that when we discussed the introduction of a code of conduct in our register for lobbyists, one of the reasons we were minded to do so was because we recognised that there had been arguments in this Parliament that we were aware of, but we wanted to make sure that we were doing everything in our power so that—and I think that it was referred to in our discussions, albeit in private—that, while it had never happened, we wanted to make sure that we had a mechanism in place that prevented it where possible, and if it happened that we had something that would allow us to react and we wouldn't be reacting to change the system just because an incident had happened. I think that what Jim Murphy is suggesting here is very similar to that. He is asking that we look at the issue of paid directors and consultants. I would accept what my colleague Dave said about the fact that we're not aware of there having been any incidents in the Parliament, but once again I think that we should err in the side of caution and we should seriously consider how we would give power to this particular proposal. Margaret? Yes. I agree with what has been said already, and Jim Murphy does mention in his letter that he is proud of the Scottish Parliament, which is above reproach, but he is asking us if we should consider looking at the rules again. Patricia Marwick, in her response, says that there are a very limited number of MSPs that hold a second paid rule. Although that is not consultancy work, there are some who have directorships, and that is permissible. As Patricia said, when we were looking at the lobbying inquiry, we took the stance that we were looking at it and considering it before, not because something had happened but because we thought it was a good thing to do so that we have that rule in place if anything should happen. I think that we should be looking at the rules again and seriously considering what we do around MSPs who have second paid directorships or consultancies. Cameron? I think that part of the issue is that in the House of Commons there are many, many more back benches than there are here. Therefore, people don't always have time for it. There are 600 Members in the Commons and 128 of us and 129 of us here. I do not really think that that issue is coming up. We are also discussing so much in the lobbying department that I do not think that we need to worry too much about this at the moment. Let me just express my personal views and then I will say something as convener. I think that it is always proper that we are challenged as to whether our rules are correct and Mr Murphy is properly asking us to look at something in relation to what may have happened elsewhere. I use the word may because at this stage there are processes to be undertaken elsewhere perhaps in relation to what has been in the public domain. We clearly will have an opportunity as a committee—sorry, before I move on to convener's comments. The thing that I am specifically uncomfortable about is that instead of focusing on what people do, the letter is focusing on what people are. In other words, they are consultants or directors. I am not interested in the label and I am interested in what people do and why we should discriminate against one category of employment rather than all. I am unclear, but I think that now speaking as a convener, we will have an opportunity to consider this when we look at our member's interest bill because that I think would be the proper place to do that. Perhaps if members are content that I would propose that we respond, we have been written to by the Presiding Officer, so it would be proper for us to reply to the Presiding Officer and copy Mr Murphy in so that he is aware what we are saying. I think that the response that I would recommend to my colleagues is that we do note what is said and agree that we will consider this during our further consideration of the member's interest bill that we plan. I am seeing you nod, Dave. Thank you, convener. I am quite happy with that course of action. I think that it is rather unfortunate that Mr Murphy has already made his mind up as he says in his letter that he is committing in their manifesto for 2016 that this will happen. It may be necessary for us to do this, but personally I always like to have a very good look at the facts, the issues, all the consequences before I make my mind up about things like this. At the end of the day, it may well be that when we do look at it through members' interests that we think that this is something worth pursuing, but it is going to be a commitment in the Labour manifesto, so the mind is made up, which I think is a shame. I think it would have been better if he had come to us with a more open approach, asking us to look and come back, because there is plenty time for parties to sort out manifestos before the 2016 election. I am not going to succumb to the temptation to engage in a matter of politics. That will be dealt with in the proper place here. I hope that we look at things objectively. There also is the opportunity, as the lobbying bill goes forward, to look at that facet of it, and that may be a proper place for it to be dealt with. I think that in our work programme we have a number of opportunities to deal with this, and I think that it would be at this stage to write to the Presiding Officer and copy Jim Murphy. I need to declare an interest, convener, because I own a family business that I cannot shut down just because I am here. There is an income from time to time. I may say to you this year that it was not a good year, no income at all. It fluctuates, but there is nothing that I can do about that. It is like a farmer closing his farm. I have got over just under 50 people now working for me. I am here, and if I shut it down, what happens to them? The one thing that I would say to you is that I have declared in my members' interests 20 days a year that I have never spent, and the whole time I have been in Parliament, I have never spent a day in my business one single day. In terms of this Parliament, I take the same view as we have taken when it comes to looking at people who are engaged with us. I do not think that there is anything wrong in Belton braces. I really do not. I am encouraged by what you said that we should look at what we do rather than the names that are given. Up until recently, I have been a board member of Rape Crisis Scotland. In that situation, although I am a board member, no expenses, no wages, nothing, a cup of tea is all I could declare from there, and sometimes a biscuit. I am also a board member of an organisation that covers the whole of the United Kingdom. I do not get any expenses, I do not get anything, no remuneration, nothing. I do it because I want to help. When you see somebody labelled as a board member of something, do not assume that they have made big bucks from it. It is normally the opposite. It is out your pocket when you are in this place. That is all Julie noted. I have proposed that we write to the Presiding Officer saying that there are two opportunities going forward. I did not see me convener, but I had been trying to indicate to you what to do. To clarify for Gil, Mr Murphy's letter talks about paid directors or consultants. Your voluntary work would of course not come into that category. It is something that should be caused for congratulations rather than otherwise. I would also point out to Dave that, although Mr Murphy has indicated that it will be in Labour's manifesto for 2016, that is a matter for the Labour Party, but what he has done in his letter is to write to the Presiding Officer to ask that we consider beginning the process of banning paid consultancy work in terms of referring the issue to the standards committee to consider the appropriate changes to Parliament's code of conduct. It is not about making this committee a judgment on the hoof, as it were. It is suggesting to the committee that they want to consider it. I think that it is a separate piece of work from the work that we are already doing. It may have links and it may have read across, but I honestly think that it is something that we could look at regardless of the other two pieces of work that we are doing. To follow on, convener, from Gil's point, this is not a simple thing. What is the definition of paid consultancy work? Directorships might be an easier thing to define, but paid consultancy work, I am a vice president of the trading UK trading standards institute. My career was in trading standards. I hosted an event this week, a consumer empowerment event. I am hosting a young consumer thing in another couple of weeks and so on. I do not get paid for that post either, just the same point Gil was making. I have claimed expenses from them once when I went down to the UK annual conference in Brighton. This is a hugely complex issue. Would that be caught as paid consultancy work? This needs a lot of very detailed consideration. It is not an easy and simple thing to deal with, which is the implication, I think, in the letter. We will get down to that detailed discussion, of course, when we consider it. I am quite comfortable about your own suggestions that there will be opportunities for us to do that in our work programme. Anyone else wish to say anything? No, we are at the moment, I think, of two views on the subject. The view has been expressed that this should be a separate piece of work and there is a view being expressed by the committee that we have two opportunities as we take lobbying forward and as we look at the member's interests. Do you wish to press this to a decision, Patricia? I think that the balance of the committee is against you. Yes, I realise that. Colleagues are making the point that we need to consider this very seriously. I think that you best do that by considering it as a piece of work, a piece of work that, yes, has read across to other issues and other matters, but one that could be looked at on its own. It certainly could be looked at on its own, but I do not think that anyone in the committee is saying otherwise than that. I think that it is whether it should be. By the way, if we were to look at it in the context of lobbying and the member's interests and conclude that we had to do work, I do not propose that, if we take a decision today that our existing work programme can accommodate this, that that rules out our returning to the issue if we find that that does not adequately deal with it. Just procedurally, I think that it would be important to say that so that we do not end up saying, if we go the road of using our existing work programme, that we are barred from looking at it by other means, if we conclude we need to come back to that subject. I made the proposal that we use our existing work programme. Do we wish to divide the committee? We have heard from different members around the table that it is a serious consideration that we have got to make on this, and perhaps it does require to be looked at separately. I mean, I do not know how our programme is that we could actually fit it in. Well, currently we will be looking at the rules on lobbying in May, and what I am suggesting is that we can consider it at that time. Can I suggest, convener, that we come back to our next meeting with a short report from the clerks indicating the work programme and the opportunities for fitting the sound before rather than make a decision? Well, let's put it this way. We are looking at the rules for lobbying in May anyway. That is already something that we have agreed as a committee. I am content that we could do that, but I suggest that it would be unlikely that the clerks would say that we could do it any earlier. Let me put it no stronger than that, given that May is six or seven weeks away. Rather than make a decision just now and divide the committee that we could come back and have a look with a bit more information about the work programme and how this would fit into it, because if it fits into it neatly, then that would lead us to take it as part of another bit of work. If it looked as if it wasn't going to fit in neatly, then the points being made about it as a separate part of work might gain more momentum. It would be useful to get a short note from the clerks at the next meeting just where we can decide either way. Are others going to fall in behind David's suggestion? Is that my question, Patricia? I know what is from the clerks at the next meeting. My concern about having it as a piece of work that is part of the other work that we are doing is that we are actually quite far along with the work on those two issues. That is fairly fundamental in the sense that we were at pains with the lobbying enquiry to make it clear that we weren't talking about MSPs, we were talking about lobbyists. My concern would be that, if it was rolled up into other work, we would be so far along that it would be much more difficult to make it cohesive and make it work. Whether it is worth having the clerks do a job of looking at where it could fit in, I am not sure, because if there is a willingness to have it fit in, then it will fit in, is my view. I am not sure what is to be gained from that. My preference would be simply to decide today that we incorporate it in our existing work programme, where we have two elements of work, two opportunities. Does the committee want to divide? I think that the committee is clearly of that view that we fit it in. However, we know on the record that, if we find that the existing opportunities to look at it do not provide it, that is not blocking off that we can return to the issue at a later date and schedule a specific piece of work, to make that absolutely clear. Are we content to proceed on that basis today? As long as we are committed to taking this piece of work forward. That I am committed to doing and I get the impression. The point has probably been made to us and I think that we will proceed on that basis. Right, I am very grateful for that, that is helpful. That completes agenda item 2 and we now move into private session.


Hey guys, hope you're good. We're right here at Jomo Kenyatta International Airport and you can see who we have to kuna MC Tricky. Anatrombia kwanza ni wapia nenda. Juminda kwa kwa kwanza ni departure. Arasi arrival. Tiki mambo. Pwa sahana. Kufiti? Nikufiti kabisa. Hei, kwa mafansa bo wa nakatazama sasa hivi wiki. Tunajwa wunenda landa. Yes. Sisi tunajwa lakini mafansa wajitwale zeki dogo to going to do. Okay, so thank you so much. Nambawang, so na nikona mission hule U.K., London, I got two missions to accomplish by the end of this weekend, na jumanana na uku. Nambawang, I'm still on my mission. Una kumuka ma rea kwanza ni kienda, I was there courtesy of KKLT. Yes. Kevin Kalaroa, you came your trust. I'm their brand ambassador this side of Africa. So they are still mobilizing people, but when they are cosensitized wa say, wa Afrika, wa Kenya, wa eleweyo KKLT ni nini na inahusunini, because that's what we are number one. Number two, I will be gracing the Kenya comedy show that is happening in London after your regency this coming Saturday in Billy September. So I will be also performing there. So that is what is taking me to the U.K., yes. We are not supposed to go. Yes. We are not supposed to go. We are not supposed to go. We are not supposed to go. We are not supposed to go. Kenyan comedy billa emsi, aji. Aji. So due to public demand, lazima ni ngeenda. Kusumekuzea we ni muwe trikin. We are in a pointi. We are in a pointi. We are in a pointi. We want to thank our audience. We want to thank our audience. And they say, ah, tikuzi miyena. But now, we can say, we are in a ticket. Now we are in the U.K., and before London, we are going to go. But we have to get out of the ticket. We are going to get through the gate. So we better get it as early as now. So you are growing up now? Yes. I see many events, so this is your exact ticket. Sir, I want to expect me from trikin. I'm very much prepared I'm very much prepared I'm very much drunk It's not my first time performing there Already at least I can understand in your audience I have a clue of exactly what I'm going to do on stage It's not the first time The good thing is that I'm able to perform Siku piti ya wukum in my last tour Siku perform up in East London At that time, I was in a concert window I went to another island in Toghansi I went to Thampton But I couldn't go to London But I went to Shozang I came through here in London It was a joke Was it a joke? Yes, it was a joke But it was a joke I got jokes The last time we had a trick We had a rainbow We had a rainbow Mission number 3 Whatever I started with that mzungu Must be accomplished This time round Yes We had a new season We had a kikido We had an update We had a mzungu We had an airport It was a cashew We had a mzungu I've never seen anything like it I've never seen anything like it We saw it in the past When you were at Africa Not as soon as I started So, kwa niya bwana tuna ichiwa. So, kwa uki patana na mzungu. Siu jaribu piya. Kwa ni mi siomutu? Maybe tricky to add on that. The last time, kifanya interview kizungu, mzi ya kwa uso mzungu, nili ona mazwa li mingi sana wa tuwa keuli. Zaka kwa ni wafrika wamikufanya ni, umepu kwa heartbreak na wafrika. Amam bona wama na ukuvuka border kwen de haza. Naka, na sila zima wafrika wakufanya ki tumba ya na ukuvuka kwa mzungu. Kwa ni mi. Sila zima. Bona utaki wafrika? Mi siya destaki wafrika. Sini mi kwa na ukuvuka. Saza si, sasa taimia mimi isya. Kwa ni wazungu wanyu wana kutia nga kwa wafrika, wana kwa maikufanya na wazungu. Ki ya kila mpa na kwa gana rizoniak? Kila mpa kwa na rizoniak. Mi mi ni kwa na ya angu. Nintakwa mpi ya ikiwa nika. Niki siya masa isya tanya tawa. Ata ingiliya? Ata ingiliya kat. Yes. Ok, a tricky. A tricky. Atiki yangiliya, pwale, we understand that comedy is not something like Siki to Raisi. Yes. And we will make on top of the list. And maybe you can tell us what is this thing, one thing you are doing to make sure that you are remaining at the top because it is not easy. Research relevance consistency is of it's touch. Very important. You have to research your audience. Lazi mahu research audience zina badili katilasi. So lazi mahu badili katilasi. When it comes to comedy, personally me 7 years ago is not like today. Things are changing, mutanda wii me ingiya. People are getting entertained, mutandao na memes and everything. O katilati tu ki yanzakumedi yaku kwa na memes. So sayi lazi mahu kaya rada exactly what you want to do on stage. See later you go na batisha stage. You have to do that. That is research. Number 2 relevance. As a brand I believe, kama emsiya triki lazi ma niji position ni nawei that at least I am relevant. By relevance I mean ni kipitamita ni people find a reason of celebrating my brand. Si wuna nga brandi na yisha na yisha tu kimchezu. Na yisha tu. Ask yourself why triki is here today traveling. It's because of relevance because I can at least I can make one or two people come to a show. Yes. Just two questions. Have you ever made a joke? Of course, that's normal. Mika mada chari pii ashe itibu wutua kufa. Mi te seb. The good thing with me, mi mi ni ki tengeza seti hangu. Na making sure uta jwa joku ni gani na ni gani siwa joku. Mi mi tu na jwa. So what I must put, ye kama uta jwa kama wutua joku. It's just normal. It's normal for a certain punchline ni yate. That is very normal too. Maybe on my side. Tu na una pali na hendelia na kujenga pali woshe pali nyumbani. Tu na una watuengi sana komitanda wana criticize kujenga kwa usyago. Tsemi tu usyago in the future. And maybe what is really inspired you kujenga palo usyago. Regardless of people maybe talking about witchcrafts, whatever. Everybody has a reason of what they want to do in life. Kwa wana criticize ati watu na jenga usyago. They have no right or any reason to do that. First of all, wawa wajenge tu na waju uta miyake. You know you can criticize something that you have not done. Siedi anza kumambia. Trudia tikuwa hi... Kimono. Kimono. Atisipo. Namizu ye iwa kafil. First of all, do it. You'll know the sweetness of it. Then start talking. Tkima liza kuna picha jana ilko ina trendsana. Pale bienene nukiwa na murembo na pomba pale. Na pomba pale, ma pomba ulevi ulevi triki. Na kumatua mezun kumiza mombu mingi. Saru monewa picha? Mizu ye iwa na. Bienene ni iwa bihuku. Mutandao ni triki. Namuremba po na piga sherehe. Triki tuwa bienene. Kuna ndaji. Bienene ni iwa bihuki. Bienene ni iwa bihuki. Bienene ni iwa bihuki. Expo. So wakasema ni ni? Ulewikiwa na murembo pale na taska. Biza taska pale muna piga sherehe. Wakasema ni ni? Milizei kitu alisema na nani jwekichi. Ulewikiwa na mungiwa mifupa. Ulewikiwa na ulewikiwa mirembo apo. Labda sahu yon na mushikajiwa kuhu. Mushikajiwa ma mungiwa mifupa. Ulewikiwa ma sahu yon na jwekichi. Ion ni kitu ye niwa mifupa piga picha kama hamu jwekichi. Paparazi fulla na okei. Ion kunja na naku emergen wataru poditu na huanidi. Okei jaa yaa. Mas, senak mubusu k lettuce kama wiremi wa ilisha na taska. Na huwa kwa isavi ni ni. Pati ni ni ni kawaido. Paisagnomi bik Whoo ed1 serve ni did将emos. Nku su enade bebieness mo kaetryudu wari liei kubifisa wavam ni n�do. So. So long ksini na drof hu, kmant exclusively bikuilia shoe empty mirochia echo. Sii pigi mutu, ama sii tu, sii mutu, sasa shida iko api. Buna shida. Hai ya, sii ngunza na ma fansu wako, edua wish you, safe travels, ukirudi. Thank you. Thank you so much for support, my fans, as Santeni sana. Sins day one, imi kwa triki sana. Wacheni nini nili wa represent Pale London. Kamakawida sii zi wa angushan. Na waluwa zito watu wako Pale London, UK, we are coming for you. This coming Saturday, Karembili, let's meet at Droyo Regency, Pale East London. Tandike tu ii pige, it's a Kenyan comedy show. Na line up ni moto wewe. For the first time, tu me patanawasani wengi outside Kenya in the same stage. Sasa apu kuna competition, kuna hamu, kuna jamu, kuna wewe, kuna white. We don't compete. The more we are, the better. Because the better the show will be. Me lewa, we don't compete on stage. Right. Wish all the best. Okay. Iwikendi ni kuna aseno. No, Iwikendi ni kuna aseno. Chelsi kawahida. But Junior aseno namaniu. Iwikendi Pale Emirates. Lazi ma duna duka chungulie games. Chika matutapatatiko yaku watch live. Lazi ma manu ii pige. Lazi ma ii pige. Lazi ma ii pige. Lazi ma ii pige. Thank you.


Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Katharine Norr. Today we're talking about Hawaii eSports Invitational Top Not Teams Converged at HPU. With me is Ed Lalier, co-founder and Chief Corporate Development Officer at Vanta eSports. Welcome Ed. Thank you. Aloha. Good to be. All right. Tell us about Vanta eSports. Sure. So Vanta is an eSports infrastructure company. We really focus on youth development, primarily within the K through 12 space. But we are leaning into the college and the adult space as well. We provide competition, coaching, professional development, camps, free to compete leagues for schools, platform that's COPA compliant. It's over safe for minors under 13, as well as events. All right. So what got you into eSports and developing your company? It's a great story. So I've been a gamer since the 90s during the quake days. And I was in financial services for about 20 years. But didn't really get into the eSports business until my son unfortunately got sober early COVID.  And it was a really traumatic time. Gaming was that connection point for normalcy to have that severed was truly traumatic and really felt the pains of isolation. And I felt compelled to do something about it. So you can't really tell I'm six, seven and played international basketball. My dad played pro like I coach youth basketball that traditional sports model works so well when I have an adult mentor in the room with a structured program. You have practices competitions are in the week. And what you end up having is this skill development process over a number of days or weeks. But, you know, it's not just learning the game, but it's the life skills, the soft skills, respect, empathy, communication and such leadership. This is what's being missed in eSports. There is no adult in the room. There is no referee, no umpire. And as such, it's anything goes. And so I felt like I said compelled to do something about it. So I, the first call was my, my buddy and colleague from Boston College, Aaron, our NBA days. And I was like, I got an idea. Why couldn't we replicate that traditional sports model in the digital arena. And so we tested it out and did a number of alpha beta tests. And it worked out great to have a coach in a structured program where you're teaching the kids how to play the game, but also how to work together as a team. And we started out as a coach league. And then from there it blossoms into this full on infrastructure company that, like I said, lists out all these things from like coaching the PD, the platform to events. All of it though is to provide infrastructure to support that coach league at the core of it. It's basically trying to create a safe place for kids to learn.  And what led you to do this in Hawaii? Oh, that's a really interesting question. So I, I married up. I married an island girl. So I have 2 kids. And so she's from here. She went to a line or a family went to a line. Both my kids go to a line. So I apologize for anyone who is listening to this. You know, go Raiders. But in any case, we chose a why for a number of reasons. One, when you're starting up a company, you need family support. My wife's family has is very broad here. And that was really critical. The other thing to also think about was business sense. And there's a few reasons why Hawaii is really great. Number 1, we were accepted into the blue startups accelerator program for those who don't know it is a top 20 accelerator in United States. It's funded by Tetris, which is actually based here in Hawaii. Tetris is a OG gaming. They're like, everyone loves Tetris. If we're going to learn how to make a business model work. We want to be mentored by them. So we went and so they only accept like 8 applicants out of like 520. So we were really. Less to be part of that. So. We went to Hawaii to be part of that accelerated, which is really a school for startups. And they really helped us build out our our business model, refine it, get the network, you know, connect with investors and such. That's great. But strategically, Hawaii is amazing because we have a monopoly on the midpoint between mainland and Asia. And if you know, the esports industry, 56% of the esports market is in Asia. That has a not like Hawaii has a lot of influence from there. We could actually start building a community where Hawaii is that gateway between East and West. And so we're, and I won't go too deep into it. So strategically, it was great. You know, for us, for our business just get started. Amazing. But also the community here. It is a great place for R and D. I got a million people here who are tech savvy, very diverse. And I can actually utilize Hawaii in the community here as a way to test things out and whatever works, I can then apply and scale in the mainland. So I looked at why is a really great focus group for my business and it's worked out tremendously. Fantastic. And there's been a recent event. It's really exciting. Let's show the video. Here we are with Jordan Oliver, director at HPU esports. And what are we doing today, Jordan? So we are out here at the zippies Hawaii Esports Invitational. We have schools, high schools from all across the islands, mainly a while ago today, duking it out for valor competition. We had an all star show match earlier where we had high school students from around actually get mixed teams with varsity students from Michigan State, Stony Brook and New York, UH Manoa and HPU. All right. So Ed, why don't you expand on your event? Sure. I think it might be good just to start off as to why we had the event in the first place. I think everyone likes the good, the etymology of a really impactful event. So the story goes as this. So I reached out to Kevin Yen, who's the vice president of marketing over the zippies. He by and is a gamer himself. He loves zip six. And we connected on game and really my responsibility at Vanta is really partnerships and sponsorships, really building community connection for a greater purpose. Gaming is beyond just gaming. It fundamentally has more to offer for kids to adults to really culture. And Kevin knew this. And so in fact, Kevin had a special background. He actually was one of the founders of the Diamondhead Classic basketball tournament that we all, you know, are familiar with. And he was working at Hawaiian Airlines at the time. So he has experience of creating really marquee events that are really impactful in the community here in Hawaii. He wanted to do something like that now that he's at zippies and he wanted to do something that was very original unique and he did that and you want to do it through eSports. You know, all the data shows that it's the fastest growing sport and you can definitely see that here in Hawaii as well. And he wants to be first zippies wanted to be first in Hawaii to really create that marquee event. And that and so then the question here is, well, what is a marquee event in eSports and what you're got currently now in eSports in Hawaii. Or a number of scholastic events for middle school and high school, which we're very proud to have the largest community in Hawaii. We run the largest the and we have our fall in or spring finals. But that's an elementary middle and high school, right? But for colleges, there really isn't anything here. And also for adults, there really isn't anything like on a standalone. It may actually be combined and co-located with an anime conference or a music festival or something, but on its own two legs, there really isn't anything available for the community. And so I look at the community and so does zippies as something broader than just K through 12. And so when we're looking at a marquee event, you know, our vision together was let's bring the entire eSports community here. But let's also put a little spin on it. Let's add a little flair. Let's bring some talk to your teams from mainland to come here versus us traveling to the mainland to compete. Let's reverse the situation and have them come here. Who would not want to play video games in Hawaii? Like let's go. And so it was received so well with everybody that I talked on mainland and here. And so we started out to create a product that really highlighted a few things. Number one, it's got to promote Hawaii culture, the benefits, you know, and all the things that are special and unique about the culture. We want that to shine. Number two, this has to be inclusive. Therefore, we need to include all age groups here. And so there's a special way to do that. Number 3, we needed to have really good competition. So we decided, let's actually do a few things. Number 1, let's do a college competition with really top tier teams. We were very lucky to get Michigan State, a top tier team, Stony Brook, an upcoming top tier team to challenge UH and HPU. And this was our pilot year, right? So we have a college competition. That's great. Why are colleges coming here? They want to compete, but they also want to connect with the community. And we were very fortunate to have a already established middle school and high school community. So why don't we co-locate an event there so we can utilize like a competition event really as a recruiting event. Let's get these kids scholarships. So that's a different spin-off. In addition, let's use this event as an employment opportunity so you can get jobs. Zippy's is now becoming more and more automated and electronic. They have an app, and you're seeing other food and beverage organizations doing the same thing. Technical skills are necessary. Who better to recruit to than kids who love tech? And so they want to use gaming as a place to promote their brand for job opportunities. So we look at that. Oh, we're not done yet. What about the adults? Yeah, the kids are having fun, but what about the adults?  So you've got colleges, you've got like K through 12. I got adults. It was a really special moment, and Zippy's was there to really, you know, make it happen. And so I, you know, they were really happy with the feedback. The audience was really thrilled. But that's the story. We wanted to create something that was really unique and different where people were actually coming to us versus us going to them. And we could really support like everybody in these boards on its own versus like sharing with some, you know, ancillary event. So hopefully that makes sense. It does. And let's start with the photos so people can see this event. Let's start with the HPU. So this is the location, right? Yes, it's the Hawaii Pacific University Sports Arena, which is at Aloha Tower, really great facility, really great facility. Okay, let's scroll through and that was one of your sponsors. Yeah, Aloha Pacific Federal Credit Union. You know, there are schools to financial sponsor. They're offering scholarships for kids and for families. So it was really special to have them. This is a mobile IT force. They provide tech to schools. And they also have a D to C component, but you know, they're really also a provider of Lenovo Legion products. And so they were very gracious to provide the hardware for our main stage. They also have a really good booth where it's interactive. This is PC gamers. They create what they call the battle station, which is looks like a table, but it folds out into an actual gaming station with a monitor keyboard PC. And it is a unique item that you'll never find anywhere else, but here in Hawaii. So we're really lucky to have them. So definitely a really cool company that's based here in Hawaii that's connected to these sports. This is the main arena for the college it championship, as well as the high school as well. So you're seeing a couple of the show casters from eSports you. They are a professional production company that does show casting live production streaming. They're actually based here in Hawaii, which is really cool. And, and they got great Aloha. This is this is me speaking to the crowd. And you're giving away some gift cards that right. Yeah, we were very fortunate to have rising to offer some of the, the many competitors across the many different game titles that were there. So Zippy's offered a number of gift cards to really celebrate, you know, you know, gaming with a with a quality meal over at Zippy's. So yeah, that was pretty fun. Fantastic. Next photo. This is the the other arena. So where we had it set up. We had a couple of different places where you can game. So this one was in the main area, just as you enter into the. The eSports arena at HPU. And so you're seeing some of the college. Yep. And here's another version of that where you can see a main stage kind of looks like an L. And then we had the projector screen on the back, which is actually showcasing some of the other activations in the other room. We were very fortunate to have a custom trophy created for both the winners of the college as championship and the high school. We courtesy to use surfboards Hawaii. We use reclaimed surfboards.  And we did it on to surfboards. And so what you're seeing here is the image of these custom surfboards, which has been deemed the surfboard. That is the trophy that was was awarded to the winners. I bet they enjoyed taking that back to. Oh yes, they did shrink wrapped at all. I should ask you who won the tournament. Michigan State won the college sermon in Castle High School won the high school. So this is what I think is going to happen is Michigan State brings back that amazing trophy. And then all the other colleges want to come to Hawaii because they want to win a surfboard right. I think that's exactly what's going on. In fact, I just received an image of their surfboard in their trophy case at their brand new or eSports arena in Michigan State. It looks amazing. And the first thing that the coach says like this needs a this doesn't look good on its own. It needs a second one. So he's definitely eager to come back and get another. So these are collector irons for certain. Absolutely. So this, it sounds like you're very optimistic about eSports in Hawaii. Is that right? Oh, very optimistic. And just in the eSports in general across the US and global, but especially here in Hawaii. What do you think the future holds for eSports in Hawaii and eSports across the country? Yeah, a lot of different things. So number one, you're going to be seeing stronger business models for sustainable organizations. Historically, you're seeing business models where it's really just sponsorship focus heavy and they don't have any revenues to support that with when. Marketing budgets are reduced. So what you're seeing are companies who are able to survive on multiple revenue streams. And that's going to give some continuity to an eSports industry that really wants support and it takes funding to support these events and all the training and stuff. So that's going to be super important. And that's what gets me excited is that we're all very smart now on how to actually run a sports organization. That allows us to have more infrastructure and then to support that you need to training. So we're seeing a lot more people learning, getting certifications, getting degrees in eSports. You're seeing that at UH. It's going to be really exciting in the next few years, just how many people are actually knowledgeable about this space. And that turns into a lot of other things. They can get jobs. They can actually create jobs. So businesses and stuff, which is really exciting. There's going to be more events and activations here to celebrate. Therefore, with all this content, all these things, it's going to becoming more and more mainstream. And I think that's what's really exciting is that we're filling the gaps and that's in the infrastructure with education and training jobs in business. So Zippy's got involved. Do you think that other companies will see that Zippy's embraces eSports and they might jump on the bandwagon? Yes, I think, without a doubt, here locally, having this kind of marquee event with a notable name here, it definitely resonated. And I'm definitely getting more interesting conversations now about, hey, where can I get involved? And definitely on the mainland too, we actually run the largest classic eSports event in the United States and Texas. At the eSports stadium in Arlington, it's 100,000 square feet. I mean, you've got McDonald's as a sponsor. We've got Takis. We've got Smoothie King. I mean, really big names. And what's exciting is we're building that here in Hawaii. No one can touch it because there's only one Hawaii. So I think what's really cool is now that Zippy's has taken the lead, we're seeing Hawaiian telecom get involved, low Pacific Federal Credit Union. Coca Cola is getting involved. We're seeing other bigger names wanting to get involved because they see the value that it's actually producing in the community. You know, it's really hard to reach young people in terms of marketing. And I think that this is where they are. Is that right? Yes. I mean, if you're looking at the demographic of age 18 and under 90% of kids under 18 are gaming, this is where they're at. And so I think it's really important to, when we're trying to connect them, you know, to connect to them, you know, you want to do it in a very authentic and meaningful way that's not shady. And so you do that through these eSports activations. You can tell your story and Zippy's did a fantastic job of really highlighting their understanding of the space and then connecting what they do best. Food and community, you know, into the experience. And I think more and more brands are taking wind of that. You know, I see a big advantage for Zippy's because they're not only trying to sell their food, but they're also trying to staff. And where do you find restaurant workers? You know, young people. And so I see that they have a strategic advantage there to get their brand out for a number of reasons to that audience. Yeah, I mean, so I'm hearing that there's kiosk now for self service. So like, so you don't have to go to the cashier. You could actually order from a kiosk. In the building, or you can go through the app. You know, and in fact, I've heard some stories that there may be a robot like, you know, actually rolling around helping with cleaning the dishes or something. And I mean, there, it's becoming more and more of a thing and that takes technical skills to operate and supervise and monitor the type of technology applications that are being used within the food service industry. As we know, they have tight margins. So we're using technology to actually help with profits and also provide better service. And so you're going to, you know, you're, you're adding significant value when you have those technology applications and features in their sort of their service model. And, you know, gaming, man, yeah, these kids know how to operate machines. Like they have to because especially if you want to be at a top performer, you're going to have to be very tech savvy. So, and they get very hungry when they work really hard. So it just kind of makes sense. So what are, what are future events or Vanta? What do you have coming up? Oh, yeah. So we got quite a bit. So, so, you know, for us, we're a national organization, but here in Hawaii, we've got our upcoming spring finals coming up. You know, at HPU on April 27 to 28th will be a two day event. We've got over 80 schools participating. I got over 1600 kids. You know, K through 12, it's going to be amazing. We're now in like five different islands. So we're really using gaming as the connector. You know, and it's going to be a celebration once again of the top teams in both middle school and high school. So that's on the 27th, 28th of April. Please come by free admission. And so that that's going to be exciting. We're looking to do a fall finals in early December. And that will be, you know, around the, you know, the 1st, you know, the 2nd week of December. And then we're looking at in our early spring of 2025. For the next Hawaii esports invitation. So, as a parent who embraces esports, do you encounter parents that have questions about whether their children should be gaming or have or push back on this?  And I think, you know, given that they know that my reason for starting this company is because my kid got cyber bullied. They understand the idea of structure supervision. And it's very hard for families who are really struggling just to like. It gets me trying and doing a lot of things that use gaming as that babysitter. For all, for lack of like a better term. So the kids get occupied or they're in the house or safe. But the problem here is that they're technically not safe. You go online. There's nobody really supervising them. So when they're coming to me, like, what can we do? Because they know that pulling the plug from the machine doesn't actually solve the issue because plug it back in the back. And so they're looking for program and education. So they like the idea, the concept of a coached program that has an adult that gets the kids together, form teamwork, build like, you know, the kind of basic fundamental skills of just being a good citizen. They love that idea. And they love the fact that they know exactly when practices are when the competition is they know the rules. They love the fact that it's not gaming for eight straight hours. It's like an hour and a half practice and you're done just like anywhere. They love the fact they don't have to commute. The kids to some other place and like spend money on gas. So there's a lot of conveniences that they see when you can apply it in a very meaningful, thoughtful way. So people really resonate with a response to that. So it really becomes a question about, you know, finding enough time for that structure program. So do you think that these sports will take the place of traditional sports in the future? Or how do you think that will play out in terms of the future generations? You know, traditional sports aren't going away. This is just one more additional sport that can be part of that conversation. You know, there's definitely a need to get out there outside, get on the field on the court and play whatever the sport is. And you also see there's a lot of people who may not be very talented at slam dunking a basketball because they're not six, seven, you know, are pass blocking. But they're very talented in gaming.  So, you know, we oftentimes very surprising over 50% of people who participate in our esports program and this is also another one. I've never joined an esports team. I'm sorry, a sports team or a club at their school over 50% of those who participate have never done anything else. So this is an underserved community. And what I see in the future is just more places for these underserved players and students to participate and find a home. All right, and let's talk about your website and where people can find you. Sure. So, you know, you can find us at www.vanta.gg. And on that website, you'll have a number of different options so you can join our free school leagues. We actually have over 31 game titles, you know, to choose from. So that's pretty cool. We also have camps. We have coaching private coaching for individuals or if you want to do something team based. And if you're adult, you want to get some learning, we do some professional development. And then you can see our schedule for a lot of the events that we do. Fantastic. Well, Ed, thank you so much for being here today and we've learned a lot. It's a pleasure to be here and thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you all today. Thank you to our viewers for joining us. See you in 2 weeks. Aloha.


exercise of functions under this act. The act already, for example, requires the designated medical practitioner to have regard to an advanced statement before making a decision under sections 2, 3, 6, 2C, 2, 3, 9, 1C or 2, 4, 1, 1C of the act. I am also mindful of the fact that, when an advanced statement is lodged in a patient's medical records, it should be treated as a medical record in terms of patient confidentiality, and we should also ensure that service users have as much control over who accesses their advanced statement without there being too much bureaucracy governing how they share their information. I am not convinced that the need for this amendment therefore invites Dr Simpson not to press amendment 85 in its consequential amendment 86. In terms of amendment 87, I am conscious that the committee recommended in its stage 1 report that the Scottish Government considers placing a statutory duty on health boards and local authority to promote advanced statements. As I said during the stage 1 debate, I very much agree with the committee's belief that more can be done to promote advanced statements. I was very happy to recently meet Sam H, who was mentioned by Mr Doris, and this was a matter that has been the subject of discussion between himself and myself. I want to ensure that promoting advanced statements is done in the most meaningful way and in a way that has the most impact and remain unconvinced that using legislation would necessarily, in and of itself, achieve that. I think that there are other effective ways for service users to be supported in courage to make an advanced statement exist, including peer support initiatives. Given that, in the burden that such a duty might place in health boards and local authorities, I invite Mr Doris not to press this amendment. I would be happy, of course, to meet him to discuss the work that he has undertaken with Sam H thus far and to have a discussion with him about those matters. In requesting Mr Doris not to press his amendment, I would make it clear that the Scottish Government will look to do more to promote advanced statements as part of the implementation of the bill, and we will, of course, be happy to have the input of the committee as part of that work. Thank you, minister. Richard Simpson, to wind up the pressure withdrawal. Yes, I am not totally convinced that the amendments 44, 46 and 46, to which we have already agreed, covers the situation adequately. I still think that there need to be regulations beyond the current bill's provision for the medical responsible medical officer to have regard to the advanced statement and, therefore, to have access to it. There should be some regulations that allow or do not allow other persons to have access, and, therefore, those amendments may not be perfect, and the Government may wish to amend them further at the next stage. However, if they were passed, I think that they would make a statement about the need for ensuring that there is clarity in the regulations about who should or should not access those advanced statements. I also feel that, on amendment 87, it needs to be supported. Of course, it could be further amended at stage 3 by the Government if it felt that that was necessary, but I do feel that it should be pressed. The question is, then, that amendment 85 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The members are not agreed. There will be a division. Those in favour of the amendment, those against? No abstentions. For the amendment 4 against the amendment 5, the amendment is therefore not agreed. We now call amendment 86 in the name of Richard Simpson. They are already debated with amendment 85. Richard Simpson, to move or not move. The question is, then, that amendment 86 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The committee members are not agreed, so there will be a division. Those in favour of the amendment, those against? No abstentions. For the amendment 4 against the amendment 5, the amendment is therefore not agreed to. The question now is that amendment 86 be agreed to. No abstentions. We go to Bob Doris's. Can I call amendment 87 in the name of Bob Doris, who is already debated with amendment 85. The minister has asked me to not press this amendment. He has raised the issue of the burden that this may place on health boards and local authorities. I have to say that I am unconvinced to the extent of the burden that would be placed on health boards and local authorities given looking at the provisions within the bill. I cannot imagine, for example, why health boards and local authorities would not want to promote the existence, effecting the status of the provisions in the act about advanced statements irrespective of whether there was a duty to promote on the face of the bill. That said, I would be happy to meet with the minister to discuss what that burden may or may not be. Or, indeed, I am also conscious that, by putting something on the face of the bill, it does not necessarily mean that there will be a quality and extensive promotion of advanced statements. I would be intent on holding my position to stage 3 with the possibility of bringing back a revised amendment depending on the outcome of any meetings with the minister. I know that Richard Simpson is keen for me to press this amendment and, of course, if he wishes to do so, that would be the prerogative of Mr Simpson to do that. However, on the basis that the minister has agreed to meet with me to look at this matter further, I will not press this amendment. Okay, you are not moving. The question is, then, that amendment 87 be agreed to. The question is—I am looking to Richard here, but, as I said earlier, I am not calling for you to do that. I pointed out earlier that— Am I committed to moving that? Yes. Thank you. I would like to move this amendment. I am moving amendment 87. The question is, then, that amendment 87 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? There is a division. The committee are not agreed. All those in favour of the amendment, please show. All those against. For the amendment 4 against amendment 5, the amendment is therefore not agreed. The question now is that section 21 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Call amendment 88, in the name of Richard Simpson and the group on its own, Dr Richard Simpson, to move and speak to the amendment. Thank you, convener. The committee will probably realise that I have been wrestling throughout this bill with the differentiation between the definition of incapacity in the adults with incapacity bill and the lower test of capacity, commonly known as SIDMA. The conclusion reached when we debated this in 2003 was that it was appropriate, whilst modernising the 1983 mental health act, that the SIDMA test should be applied and not the incapacity test in the 2000 act. However, as the significant impairment of decision making ability is a lesser test required with adults than the incapacity act, and whilst in the overwhelming majority of cases that serves the interests of the patient well, I believe that there are circumstances in which the patient's rights under the human rights convention to refuse medical treatment is being denied inappropriately. This amendment, as drafted, seeks in a very modest way to ensure that where the patient makes an advanced statement, which they make, of course, whilst they have full capacity, that their wishes should be followed, then they should be followed, unless the capacity is so impaired as to meet the more stringent requirements of test of incapacity in the 2000 incapacity act. I believe that we must recognise that the under usage of advanced statements may in part be because there is a feeling, realistic or not, that the wishes expressed in such advanced statements will not be fully respected. That is despite the fact that there is already a requirement that where and at what time of treatment has to be given, on the orders of the tribunal, such variation must be reported to the mental welfare commission if it does not reflect the advanced statement. This proposed amendment is a rather modest proposal and pens are much fuller review of the acts, which I believe now to be necessary, governing the whole issue of mental health and capacity, including, of course, the protection of vulnerable adults. Since publishing my amendments, I have received some questions as to whether that actually does exactly what I intended, so it may be needed to be modified at stage 3, but I do believe that it should be passed at this point and then modified, unless the minister agrees in principle that amendment is appropriate and is then willing to discuss its inclusion in a modified form in stage 3. Any other members? Will they participate in the debate? No other members? Minister? I share the mental welfare commission's concerns about the intended effect of subsection 3B and what the proposal would mean for urgent cases. Tribunal hearings can take some time to arrange, and during this time, the amendment would mean that the patient could not be given treatment. This treatment could be essential for their immediate wellbeing and their long-term recovery and rehabilitation. I am also not sure of the need for this amendment, advance statements or written statements, setting out how patients would wish to be treated or wish not to be treated for mental disorder should their ability to make decisions about treatment for their mental disorder become significantly impaired as a result of their mental disorder. However, this amendment seems to relate to situations where the patient is capable of consenting to treatment. In such situations where a patient is judged as capable in terms of the 2003 act, we would expect the patient's consent to the treatment to be the primary consideration. In addition, from what I understand, there is not a significant issue that needs to be addressed. There are a relatively small number of instances when advance statements are overridden each year. The current framework ensures that doctors and tribunals take account of advance statements and require them to set out reasons why they are overridden whenever that is the case. On that basis, I would invite Dr Simpson not to press this amendment. Dr Simpson, do you want to press or withdraw? There remains a fundamental point, and that is the right of any individual to refuse treatment if they have the capacity to do so. My proposal is that the SIDMA is not a total loss of capacity. Those circumstances, if the patient chooses to refuse treatment, they should be entitled to do so. They are not entitled under the act as it stands. Therefore, the SIDMA would apply the more severe test of the End Capacity Act, where there was a complete loss of capacity and that would allow treatment to proceed. I do not believe that, moving forward from the original act, which I very much supported at the time, that we have got this balance right. I think that this very modest situation, which allows the advance statement, given at a time of full capacity, to be fully respected unless the patient has lost capacity, reflected in the 2000 act and not the 2003 act. I will wish to press my amendment. The question is, then, that amendment 85 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The committee is not agreed. The question is, then, that amendment 88 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? There is not a committee that is not agreed. There will be a decision. Those in favour of the amendment, please show those against. For the amendment 4 against the amendment 5, the amendment is therefore not agreed to. I now call amendment 47 in the name of the minister group with amendments 48 and 49. Minister to move amendment 47 and speak to all amendments in the group. Thank you, convener. Amendment 47 seeks to amend an incorrect cross-reference, which was inadvertently left in the version of the bill introduced to Parliament. A prior version of the bill went out to consultation and draft. The consultation version of the bill contained a provision that should have been inserted in new section 57A into the 2003 act. That is related to a previous proposal related to the applications for compulsory treatment orders. However, that provision was removed following comments coming out of a consideration of the consultation responses. The reference to section 57A2, which appears in new inserted section 261A4, is therefore being removed. Amendment 48, in certain new section 291A into the mental health care and treatment Scotland Act 2003, will provide that there must be no conflict of interest in relation to certain medical examinations carried out for the purpose of the variety of sections under the 2003 act. The amendment also has the effect of extending the coverage of existing conflict of interest provisions in the 2003 act to also include compulsion order and compulsion order restriction order reviews. In addition, the new section confers a power upon Scottish ministers to make regulations that may specify circumstances in which there is taken or not taken to be a conflict of interest. The amendment has been proposed following concerns from stakeholders that conflict rules apply in relation to the making of a compulsory treatment order, for example, but not in relation to its extension. Stakeholders have also identified that similar provisions do not also apply in relation to reviews of compulsion orders. There is a strong feeling that conflict rules should apply and where a conflict exists, the responsible medical officer should be required to arrange for the examination carried out by an approved medical practitioner. That is something that can be considered under the proposed regulations. Amendment 49 amends section 245 of the mental health care and treatment Scotland Act 2003. It adds to the list of people who must be consulted in circumstances where certain certificates are granted in accordance with the 2003 act. It will provide additional protections for patients in light of the removal of the default named person that has already been discussed and agreed under amendment 40. I therefore move amendment 47. Thank you minister. Any members wish to speak in this debate? Minister, no further. The question is then that amendment 47 be agreed to, are we all agreed? Question therefore follows that section 22 be agreed to, are we all agreed? That ends today's day 1 of stage 2 consideration of amendments to the mental health Scotland bill. Day 2 will take place at the committee meeting next Tuesday and will start at the point at which we have ended today. A further marshal list and groupings will be issued on Wednesday. We now move to agenda item number 3, which has previously agreed will be held in private session. Thank you all for your cooperation and patience today.