Welcome everybody to our political debates and panels day thrilled to have you here We're going to get it started quick with this first debate between destiny and infrared and with that Thank you very much gentlemen for being here The floor is all yours destiny for your quick opening and then infrared will follow with his quick opening and then we'll jump right into Open conversation. Thanks so much. That's me the floor is all yours For only being in office for one year. I think Biden has some pretty Good legislative accomplishments behind him and what he's been able to do as president through executive action and through his guidance as a Leader I think has been more successful than most would have thought I think the second round of stimulus the child tax credit that cut childhood poverty in half Meeting and beating his expectations for the amount of vaccines that he wanted in the population And then getting the infrastructure bill passed. I think the largest infrastructure bill passed the history of us legislation I think have all been pretty big achievements for Biden's current agenda I think there are some problems that are going on right now But people like to blame wider economic problems on the president that he can't exert much control over but all in all I think for the first year I think Biden's had a really successful year in office so When evaluating the performance of a president To me the standard to which we should hold them is not the alternative president that could have been elected Before they were in office, but Their decisiveness their boldness and their ability to make Decisions that are proportionate to the crisis facing the country so with in that regard, I don't want to compare Biden and Evaluate his performance by just saying what would Trump would have done or What would an alternative president do? I think the question is How have other presidents in the history of this country responded to their respective crisis facing the country How have they exercised the decisive and bold leadership the fitting of the office FDR with his new deal Eisenhower with his national highway system JFK with the moon landing Lyndon Johnson with his great society et cetera et cetera has Biden been able to exercise a comparable level level of Leadership to these presidents in the midst of not only similar, but far more overreaching Crisis who yeah So it's hard to compare I Guess I so I guess when I'm trying to evaluate the successiveness of a president I'm seeing what are his goals and then has he accomplished those goals as best as he can Whether or not any individual president will on his own live up to the highest and best qualities of every president prior And then if we better try to guess what those presidents do in today's society I think is a little bit misguided FDR had massive margins in the house and the Senate So to compare anything FDR does to Biden who is sitting on a 50 to 50 vote split in the Senate I think doesn't really hit the mark In terms of decisive and bold decisions I mean we could talk about actually committing to the withdrawal of Afghanistan something that a lot of people thought wouldn't happen It would get kicked down the road again But I think Biden went ahead and he pulled the trigger on that which I would say was both decisive and bold I guess what I'd be looking for is what what area right now in Biden's administration Realistically could he have made a better decision than he has made and is it realistic that we would have expected him to make said decision In regards to FDR He had massive margins in the house and Senate but the question you have to ask is why FDR himself was actually facing resistance from conservative Democrats and yet in contrast to Joe Biden FDR pursued a vigorous campaign to basically In a way not too dissimilar from Trump Forced those Democrats to fall in line with his agenda He didn't say that we're scared. We're gonna lose the They're going to lose to Republicans. So we have to be conciliatory towards them So the one of the reasons FDR was had all the margins that he did was because he was an authentically popular president And people were scared to go against his agenda because it was so popular among The Democratic constituency across the board in regards to Afghanistan I agree that it probably is the only in my view good thing Biden has done In terms of foreign policy throughout his administration, but his intentions are questionable to say the least I'm not sure how bold and decisive This decision is in lieu of the geopolitical situation may what it have been inevitable regardless who knows As far as decisions Biden could have made that he doesn't make One has to take a broad perspective and ask for all of the things that Biden is All the obstacles he's facing within his own party Why is Biden unable to exercise the necessary leadership to make Democrats like Joe Manchin and and Sinomo fall in line? Other presidents have been able to do this even Trump was able to do this Because I agree that Biden has a lot of things he wants to do on his agenda like to build back better program But we agree. He's not able to do it. He's not able to exercise or fulfill his campaign promises And he's conveniently able to blame This 50-50 slit So let's I guess I'm gonna aim for shorter responses and we'll try to drill down on a few of these So when we talk about FDR and we say well, he didn't have to be white. Why is Biden so conciliatory? The implication here is that Biden is making a mistake by moving more towards the center to try to bring together The left and right to pass legislation now I would argue that the infrastructure bill passing with some 15 Senate votes of Republicans is an example of that being successful If you're saying that his Policy platform should have been a little bit more left-leaning. I mean like who like Bernie Sanders because Bernie didn't even make it out of the Democratic primary Why would we expect that a more left-leaning platform would have had any more success in modern-day politics than Joe Biden's platform? I'm only referring to the platform that he ran on and the platform that he himself committed to passing as far as more left Or more center or more right. I don't think it's very relevant It's what did Biden promise and why is he able to on why is he unable to fulfill his own promise as far as the infrastructure bill is concerned The initial target was what 3.2 trillion and it shaved down to what 1.2? I mean, I don't think the infrastructure bill is any accomplishment whatsoever. This is the How should I say? This is the regular type of upkeep that any type of modern advanced government Should be doing with regard to its its infrastructure as far as far as like the sweeping changes that would be necessary To actually upgrade our infrastructure for the new era. It fell short. I don't see why a country who's Modern advanced and developed countries supposedly the wealthiest country of the in the world Why is it an accomplishment that we have? sort of upgraded our infrastructure or at least replaced the old decaying Like why did we have decaying and rotting infrastructure in the first place? I think is a better question I think that we're a lot of the criticisms you seem to have of Biden are actually criticisms I think of the American public. I don't under I don't know how I'm supposed to get so Biden is the leader right now of Probably historically one of the most divided Americas that have existed since probably the Civil War You have a lot of criticisms in regards to like why haven't we done this or why haven't we done that? Well, the American public is super divided on it You know Trump said that he was going to pass an infrastructure bill. He wasn't able to do it Biden said he was going to pass an infrastructure bill. He was able to do it now the original figure, which I think I think I think Bernie actually had one that was north of six trillion obviously didn't get passed It had to be negotiated down, but something was passed and what was passed was the largest infrastructure bill by dollar amount in U.S. History could it have been more? I I don't know I'm just not seeing the ability of Biden to navigate the Senate as it exists right now in a way that would have allowed him to Do more you talk about like why isn't he able to bring certain people in line you you mentioned that? But it seems to have a unique challenge with cinema or with mansion. I don't think it's very unique at all I think we were one vote away from the public option under Obama because of Lieberman in the Senate that was just one senator and then I think both Bush and Trump had a lot of problems getting stuff done in the House because of the Freedom Caucus There have historically always been these like groups of people that have existed inside of the Senate or the House that Form kind of their own little caucuses that can be a roadblock to whatever leaders in office I don't think that Biden is facing a unique Unique pressure right now that nobody else ever has and again, especially when you literally have a zero to one vote lead By the tiebreaker in the Senate I don't think it's that crazy that one or two more moderate senators could pose a significant hurdle to getting legislation passed I don't think it's a fair critique of Biden So why can't Biden at the very least publicly and vigorously denounce and support alternative candidates to people like mansion and cinema? Because mansion and cinema mansion is probably the only Democrat that's gonna win in West Virginia That like other progressives and other moderates have tried to run and they've gotten destroyed As far as cinema goes It's hard to know if another Democrat could win cinema seat now I know people like to point over and look at Mark Kelly But the types of voters that voted for cinema and the types of voters that voted for Mark Kelly are far different and right now It's questionable with his approval rating if Mark Kelly's even going to win re-election So I think that people have this fantasy this delusion that the president can come and just shift all of this weight onto pressuring People in these very at-risk seats, but the reality is they know that they're not going to be out competed by another Democrat You know the only thing that they might do is they might just switch to become actual Republicans They might just switch party, but they're not actually going to be threatened by another Democratic candidate in either of these areas Okay, so to me that sounds like the reason why Biden can't do it It's because he's not actually an authentically popular president and that the only read the only thing he was able to run on was basically that He wasn't Trump. He didn't actually create or rally a movement behind him that will support him and and Execute his his sweeping vision the one that he promised on the campaign trail and which Was used to at least garner some votes for people who just want not only wanted to oppose Trump But believed in this all of these promises Biden was going to make Why did he make those promises in the first place then if if what the actual positive platform? He ran on is not popular enough among the American people that it didn't create a movement that can be used against the old guard I mean, what does that say about Biden's presidency? and his Significance as a leader overall. I mean we can argue all day what it says about him But I think it says more about the American public than it does about a particular leader We can say that Biden isn't authentically popular, but he got more votes than any president in US history now We can argue that's just because Trump galvanized the other side that Trump made people go out and vote against him I guess if you want to argue that we can But I don't think that Biden's issue with passing his platform has to do directly with the popularity of his platform I think that most of the pushback that he's facing is going to be in places where there are Republican strongholds So in West Virginia or Arizona with Manchin or cinema I don't think it's fair to say that Biden's platform isn't popular among Democrats when the main Obstacles that we face are in the Senate that are right now overrepresented with Republican senators and then moderate Democrats I don't think that the average Democratic voter is going to be against, you know expanding Medicare Medicaid It was going to be against an increase in the minimum wage or it's going to be against the added protections of unions Or it's going to be against things like mask mandates or vaccine mandates for OSHA Now I think that all of the opposition that we're seeing here comes from the Republican establishment And I don't really know if it's fair to blame Biden for that Well, if you look at people like For example FDR and other leaders They were also facing voters who traditionally voted one way and for some reason presidents like that candidates like that were able to address the reasons why people Would vote that other way and and he was able to turn them What has Biden done as a president and as a leader to address the reasons? Why for example people in West Virginia Would lean more conservative now. We know that the people in West Virginia I mean economically at least it is within their interests to support a program and policies That one may call I don't like the term progressive right they want Government to help in the economy and so on and so on. Why is it that they vote in your view? Conservative in the first place and why can't Biden address this contradiction? So one of the big dividing issues right now between left and right has to do with energy and my understanding Is that in West Virginia? They're pretty old or conservative in regards to their views of the utilization of fossil fuels Especially coal I think so on the left you have a lot of pressure to modernize our energy systems You've got a lot of pressure to cancel pipelines three major ones the keystone pipeline the there were two other ones I've already been cancelled in the United States because of mounting political pressures And then you've got Biden also saying things like I think we stopped all new drilling on federally owned lands When you've got a lot of push from from your party internally to kind of like curb the fossil fuel exploitation And to kind of move in a greener direction And then you've got some states that still have a lot of their economy based around or centered around fossil fuels That's a pretty difficult position for Biden to navigate I don't know what your suggestion there is well This is an easy way to alleviate all of these people's concerns. You could argue that it's the stimulus He's already done that in multiple ways multiple times I don't know what else I don't know how else Biden is supposed to appeal to those voters Well, if I recall correctly Biden's party the Democratic Party I forget who said this precisely, but I think it's maybe Hillary if I recall correctly The record is that they told the people for example of West Virginia and these coal miners that The alternative that they're going to present them upon cracking down upon this fossil fuel industries Is that the suggestion they gave is that they should learn to code? So how has Biden alleviated these concerns among the workers of West Virginia that? They are going to have Suitable replacements for this old jobs. I don't know what the federal government can do in terms of replacing those jobs What do you what do you think? What is something the federal government can do? Well, I mean there is precedent for the federal government for it to provide people with jobs when there were none. I mean during the New Deal, what this is called it was Something civilian jobs, I don't forget they did There were overreaching federal projects to provide people with work to do You know, there are there's examples and precedents of countries addressing Systematic and industrial changes to provide people new sources of income and new types of jobs So this is something that is within The realm of possibility for the federal government to do. I mean, I don't see why that's so outlandish So I'll ask again. So like what are examples like? I don't know what the federal government is supposed to do for all of the fossil fuel workers in West Virginia Are they all supposed to become male men or? No, I mean First of all, there is a lot of work for instance that needs to be done as far as actually building real infrastructure in this country Which we did with an infrastructure bill. Hopefully, right? Well The point is there's work to be done, right? There's definitely work to be done That these people Can do as an alternative I Mean, there's new industries that are emerging. There's new sectors That I mean the government's job is to guide people who lost their entire way of living and livelihood Having been the very source of trying to crack down on the old kind Do you think the government should be like kind of guiding these people into newer more modern jobs? Yes So would you say the government should tell these people that they need to learn to code? Absolutely not because that's exactly kind of what you're just saying right people that are that's that's that's not that is not a type of job That is befitting of the skill set that those people already have I don't know how much of the those people have a skill set that is already from the heavy industries and Certainly heavy industry in general is not something that is being outmoded Apparently the old fossil fuel industry is being outmoded. So the government's responsibility would to be to guide these people to have new jobs That are befitting of the skill set that they already have Who is to say that any jobs that you're picking up at or any jobs that you're learning at like a fossil field plant It's gonna carry over to jobs related to green energy It doesn't have to even relate to energy specifically Okay, then we go back to my central question of what else are they what jobs are these people supposed there? There's a multitude of possibilities America's Manufacturing sector has been on the decline for decades. It could be a renewed form of manufacturing I mean, there's multiple things. There's multiple forms of heavy infrastructure. I mean, sorry heavy industry. I just mentioned Infrastructure probably West Virginia of all states is a state that needs a lot of good and up-to-date infrastructure, I mean from engineers to You're not gonna retrain people that work at coal plants to be engineers, right? Yeah, but it's certainly going to be more possible to train them to do work with their hands than to say some things I mean the whole learn-to-code meme just reflected how out of touch the Democratic Party was With these people and their way of life. I mean, I think that your comments I think I think illustrate how out of touch I think you are when you say these people can work with their hands So we can retrain them in manufacturing. We still manufacture in the United States But the manufacturers today are engineers and people that maintain robots It's not people that are in fact that's not absolutely is true That is not expansions to manufacturing and the specialization of manufacturing the United States has come off of the back of modernizing Capital and modernizing the automation that we have for these industries. It's not people that are in factories anymore building cars This is why traditionally all of our big manufacturing cities all of these states in the rust belt all of our Detroit's have kind of fallen And those jobs don't exist anymore because the people working those jobs and a white collar worker is with college degrees And not people in fact large portion of manufacturing is still done with with your in the traditional way Not not just by engineers and specialists now the reason you don't see that a lot in the United States is because those jobs have shipped overseas But the type of it's not manufacturing in general It's the type of manufacturing that currently prevails in the United States as a result of the trade agreements Like NAFTA and so on and so on a decade ago Let's I'm gonna so despite being wrong on all this I'm gonna grant you all of this and we'll say that it is possible that these people can be magically retrained to work these Manufacturing jobs that don't currently even which is one example The only example you give me but let's say let's assume all of that was true somehow In a Senate we were divided 50 to 50 How was Biden supposed to bring together that Senate to one agree that we need to cut fossil fuels Which is already something that's highly content contentious in the United States and then two Allocate the federal funding necessary That's probably gonna be in the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars to employ or retrain all of these people for other jobs How would a program like that? Ever possibly pass in the Senate. We're going in a circle The entire reason why I raised this was because we have to ask the question Why are voters in West Virginia voting against their own interests? You told me because they're attached to these old type of jobs Which the Biden administration is against now you seem to be fixated on the question of manufacturing as the only alternative I just named it as an example. There's other examples. There there is still a mining industry That's going to persist regardless of the end of fossil fuels. I mean, there's there's a ton of examples I you could probably you could probably name You can go into the nitty-gritty of each and every one, but a reasonable reasonable person would concede that there are alternatives In general, there are alternatives that befit those people skillset I don't think that's such an outlandish and unreasonable claim The idea that you can take people that are in their 40s or 50s that have been working in certain sectors for their entire life And just have them hop over and do something equivalent That's going to make them the same amount of money is probably not ever going to happen. I just why not Because historically we tried to do this after NAFTA when NAFTA happened our Manufacturing specialized in the United States and we shipped a lot of our supply chain South Mexico some things north of Canada and What happened was is we tried to spend money in the United States Retraining some workers to do other jobs and I think by the end of most of those experiments what we realized was hey Spending money retraining is actually a huge waste of time It would have been better to just literally get cut people checks from the government and just pay them not which other jobs What what do you mean? Which other jobs? Which other jobs were they retraining people? I don't know specifically what they were retraining to but I know that NAFTA had there was no major effort on part of the They were Clinton the administration literally had huge programs set up to retrain workers There are there are big there are at least two huge studies published in the In the retrain them to do what national Bureau of Economic Research I don't know what I don't know the specific jobs They were retraining the main all I know is that the money spent to retrain people and this should be pretty obvious If you've got a guy that's worked in a certain industry for 20 or 30 years Retraining them to do another job in a few months or six months or even a year or two It's going to be really difficult to do and at some point after NAFTA people decided You know what for retraining a lot of these people they would have been better off just getting checks from the government Instead of the massive amount of money they were spending trying to retrain the problem Is treating it as a matter of Respecialization when the whole point of these jobs that were shipped overseas Was that these were general jobs that the average Joe for example the baby boomers They could just go and do at right out of high school So the question isn't do retrain them to learn to code or these overly specialized professions The question is how will the government help establish a new type of standard Job that's not the that's not the world we live in anymore. Those jobs don't exist Why not because capital has gotten you should believe this is a leftist right capital has gotten more efficient has been able to deliver Higher productivity per employee because you only need one person to run 10 robots than 10 employees build a car This is all relative you could say that you could make the relative to the rest of the world No, no historically speaking. It's relative. You could have made the same exact argument before world war two or before the new deal Because at that point you did have a similar kind of situation where there wasn't really a standard middle class type of job on the one hand You had this really proletarianized population on the other hand you had A ruling class the standard type of job that i'm talking about is something that only really arose as the standard for the advanced capitalist countries After world war two I don't know as as a result. Okay, hold on. We there's We have to engage in a huge level of self-delusion if we're going to believe that today Capital hasn't become so much more efficient and productive that a that a single piece of capital per unit is far more productive than it Was in the past and is massively out productive compared to workers of the past This is comparable to like the mechanization of agriculture. It's all relative As when you say it's all relative. What do you mean by that? That's an increasing automation Does not actually lead to the abandonment of the need for physical labor What it can lead to is new types of labor emerging as well as reduced reduction of the overall working day working week And so on and so on which i'm 100 in favor of new labor emerging is true and that's happened But that's why it's becoming increasingly important to educate our economy because the new labor that's emerging Has been the people that are maintaining or servicing those machines. That's the new labor. What's that? What is an essential worker in 2021 an essential worker isn't just people attending to machines An essential worker is someone who attends to the shit that we're going to need When the apocalypse happens, uh, for instance, right the people who are going to still need to be delivering Packages the people who are still going to be unloading trucks the people who are still going to be at Shipping centers and so there are some jobs that we haven't some there are some jobs that we haven't placed yet But if I would appoint to like say agriculture Are we going to say that there's ever going to be a time when a field of people can make a competitive wage competing against a single john dear machine When then how do you explain the to this the continued prevalence of low skill Migrant agriculture in the united states up to this point I don't have to explain anything the trend is explained in my favor One of the largest growing reasons for wealth inequality today in the united states is the four-year degree It is becoming increasingly important in american society and in the world at large That everybody needs to have a four-year degree because the level of education is necessary to compete in today's economy You can talk to me until you blow in the face about how there are people that unload trucks Yeah, but the problem is the demand for that labor is decreasing as more stuff becomes automated And it's becoming increasingly necessary to go to college to get an education to be competitive in today's workforce Wait, but that didn't answer my question. You mentioned, uh, the how could you compete with a john dear machine in agriculture But the use of physical labor is still extremely prevalent in the united states up to this one agriculture is is far from being Fully or even a wholly mechanized in the united states Do you think there are more or less machines today that have replaced physical laborers? More or less More or less compared to when I actually don't know compared to the past I don't actually have I don't have you don't know today if there are more or less machines No, because low skill migrant labor is so important for the agricultural sector in the united states That even as a matter of an inference. I literally could not tell you Um, okay. Um, well, what's the uh What's the next thing I guess that you think that biden could improve on you mentioned, uh, biden's stimulus Relief package, uh, the american rescue plan Uh, and how this has cut childhood poverty in half And how biden has done so much to help working families and so on well, it's curious to me because How would you address the? Overwhelming unpopularity of the child tax credit its approval rating is in the 50s Among america's people only 15 percent of recipients of the childhood tax credit said it has helped them significantly Whereas 64 percent said it helped them a little bit Um, as far as people polled about what's the most important part of the build back better program Only 14 percent said that it was it was going to be important Now I don't want to throw all these statistics statistics at you, but we have to face the fact that inflation and rising prices probably have offset Whatever accomplishment you think the childhood tax credit has made So I heard you quote me why so many people don't like the child tax credit But then you point that it's got about a 60 percent at least slightly positive view of it It helped them a little Yeah, I mean it did help a little but I mean that's about all you can expect it's it wasn't ubi It's not a thousand dollar a month check that people are getting cut But I mean it still has a slightly favorable view and for those that are getting the extra 200 dollars a month or whatever I'm sure it helps a bit It's not going to be the the best thing in the world or it's not going to be like solving all of their financial problems And then inflation is a real issue right now But I don't know how inflation is biden's fault and I'm not even sure at this point what biden can do to address inflation Well, this is another thing. This is a constant theme. We're constantly getting with regard to Making excuses for biden. So on the campaign trail biden will make I know this was before the inflation crisis But biden would make bold and sweeping claims like we're going to shut down the virus And he would say things like we're never going to raise the white flag and now More than 600 000 deaths later Apparently it's biden's it's out of his hands. There's absolutely nothing he can do My issue is the stark contrast between the level of power being projected on the campaign trail And the sobering reality of the fact that the president does not actually have supposedly so much power So when we were furthermore What steps have has biden taken to address the inflation crisis?  So So If you're gonna Seriously say here to argue that the president on the campaign trail You know was more boisterous or seemed more bombastic or was making bigger promises than than what he could deliver in the white house That's unfortunately going to be true of literally every single president in u.s history What i'm comparing biden to is what other actions could he have taken once he got into office rather than What did he say on the campaign trail versus what he did now unless he's actually completely flipped or 180 on some things So for instance, I think it's fair to criticize obama when I believe he said on the campaign trail He's going to shut down guantanamo bay and then he gets an office anymore Unless it does nothing about it for eight years for whatever reason. I think that's a fair criticism so In terms of like what I can credit a president for versus what i'm going to Attack a president for I try to say like well, what can a president influence? So the reason why I brought up things like the child tax credit Why I brought up things like the infrastructure plan or the second round of stimulus because these are things that are Within the direct control or purview or influence at least of the president of the united states Now when we look at something like inflation which has many causes and is an incredibly complicated thing In society. I don't know what biden himself could do To combat inflation. We have the federal reserve that can increase interest rates, which I believe they're already talking about doing But the federal reserve exists independent of the president The only other really thing that biden could influence there is maybe Cooling down the demand side of the economy getting rid of the stimulus But it seems like that same stimulus has been pretty important to keeping americans afloat Whether we're talking about the unemployment insurance The actual stimulus checks the payment protection program like these things are important things that americans are probably needed I don't know if it would be fair to say that biden should have just cut all of that and then seen what happened I believe we tried that during the great depression. I don't think it worked very well If you think that there's something that biden should be doing right now to address inflation Which in my understanding is caused by a historic shortage of supply chain related labor across the world because of the sickness and disease And it's caused by a historic shift in the types of spending that americans are engaging in Where we're spending more and more and more money on goods and services Which is why we've seen things like the cost of goods on amazon increase, but we're not really spending as much I'm sorry on goods, but we're not really spending as much on services, which is why you don't see things like Say like uh haircuts or airplane tickets increase as much What are things that biden could be doing to address the I guess supply chain crisis that would make these things better How can biden curb inflation? So when in the when in the history of the united states have we faced such an overwhelming national crisis an economic crisis and the response were being given as far as the inaction ineptitude And powerlessness of the president is well, he can't do anything. It's out of his hands I mean you say that all presidents are more boisterous on the campaign trail, which is true But the great presidents uh in the history of the united states and great I say in the sense of what they were able to accomplish They actually did execute very bold sweeping visions upon Reaching office, and I keep bringing up fdr Because the crisis we're facing now is uh proportionate to the crisis. He came into office Trying to face so that's why i'm holding biden to that standard, but even if you Talk about other presidents eisenhower um JFK or linden johnson and so on and so on You can see the stark contrast these were presidents.  What can biden do to curb inflation? Uh, am I the president? No, but you're taking the president the job of the president is is to gather A round of people who know how to do that kind of shit and fix it I'm not the president so i'm not sure why you're asking me like exactly what biden has to do to address the inflation crisis So if you don't know the answer Do you think it might be possible that the issues that are causing inflation are outside of biden's control? Um, no, I I refuse to believe that the president of the united states can basically do nothing to address the inflation crisis So to understand your point you're saying that you know that he can do something to address the issue But you don't know what he can do to address the address the issue. I don't know exactly what you know No, no, not exactly. You don't even have a general idea of what he can do Um, no, I think I have a general idea of what he could do What's a general idea of how typically the way that you address things like inflation is you focus on Uh, building as a real economy. So there's a distinction between real economy and fictitious Or virtual economy and biden does not Following a line of neoliberal presidents. He doesn't actually recognize that the distinction. He collapses everything into So for example the way biden has responded to the crisis we're facing is he's just throwing money at shit, right? But has he actually addressed the underlying source of the value of money? Which lies in the real economy So biden has done nothing to actually bolster our real economy What can biden what is the real economy and what can biden do to bolster the real economy is more or less our heavy industries So what does biden need to do to bolster our real economy? Um, biden needs to promote new heavy industries at the expense of the old ones that uh, the monopolies Who are beholden to the special interests that lobby for him and fund his party To which his party is beholden to he has to do things that come at the expense of the established special interests Including wall street in the financial capitalist class Which benefits from the decay and the rotting of america's real economy so You want biden to essentially create from thin air with a 50 vote to 50 vote Slimmest majority possible in the senate a whole new heavy industry That on its own wouldn't even necessarily address any of the issues of inflation I don't understand how one this is like it literally impossible You can keep comparing them to fdr all you want, but you can go and look at the majorities that fdr had in the senate house It's a totally different legislative arena to try to compare the two Hold on and then the idea that like just none of these things seem to have anything to do with inflation You're talking about promoting new heavy industry new heavy industry The what that's still going to have to ship goods from overseas over to the united states That's still going to apply upward pressure and prices for goods that are being shipped from overseas This is literally where all of the pressure is coming from for inflation I don't understand why you think this would affect unless you're talking about creating new industries to ship things You claim that this is the source, but when you have a broader picture of the source of inflation It's clearly a crisis of the u.s. Dollar that's coming to a fore that has been predicted for many many decades by people Who recognize that the the currency of the united states currency isn't backed by anything real So we don't want to get into the nitty gritty of that because it's a distraction, but your Claim of knowing the real the complete cause of inflation is questionable Now as far as biden creating heavy industry from thin air That's not what I said. He has done nothing to Take action like other governments in the world to promote these new types of industries and promote the real economy at the expense Of our corrupt ruling class and if biden positioned himself in that way He would have a popular mandate Even more powerful than trumps. He would be able to get these democrats to fall in line. I mean If biden were to position himself against the corrupt status quo that is preventing democratic leadership From pursuing bold sweeping changes like this There's no doubt that the problem he's currently facing would not be a problem Why do you think it's mentioned would not be elected in the first place and these old democrats in this contested territory There would be no threat of the republicans the republicans win because they're populist, right So biden does not have a popular mandate.  So for example when democrats are unable to get things passed Conveniently they are protecting this entrenched status quo and this Corrupt ruling class all because well voters in west virginia are a little bit more conservative and that's why mansion can't Afford to vote for these bold sweeping changes. It's a game of shifting blame to the constituency When in reality it's the Only the corrupt ruling class that is benefiting not the constituency. So everything you just said is just so So for example, you blame all of this is nonsense, right?  There is a legion You blame the constituency There is a legitimate division only people who are benefiting are the ruling class the constituency doesn't benefit Then why are they voting the way they do? Why do they continue to support? Because they have been duped to vote against their own interests in a way that benefits the ruling class Okay, so in the in the worldview that you've constructed People either agree with you or they disagree with you because they've been duped by the ruling class There's no other alternative. There's no there's no there's no room that maybe there might be genuine disagreement Among americans for how the country should be ran. Okay. Have these americans who supposedly Authentically disagree they're not being duped or manipulated whatsoever by the ruling class and by these politicians How have they benefited from what these things that they supposedly believe in well if they're republicans They benefited because their social agenda has been pushed. So for instance things like trying to fight against Let's talk about meat and potatoes things that actually affect people's lives You can talk about meat and potato things that actually affect people's lives because as a marxist is the only thing you care about But the reality is there's a lot of single issue voters in the united states over things like evangelical issues As a marxist over things like social issues over things like abortion over things like is my president supporting an lgbtq agenda or whatever These are you might you might not like these issues but for a lot of americans are a single issue I'm trying to answer your question. Okay. There are a lot of americans that do vote a lot on social issues They're very important to some americans If you want to talk about just meat and potato issues, then we need no need look no further than west virginia Well, you've got a ton of co-workers that are looking at a democratic party That has been presiding over the shutdown of three massive pipelines or pipeline expansions in the united states And that are promising to renew all of our energy sectors into green new energy And these fossil fuel workers are looking at that potential revitalization of the energy sector and all they're seeing is their Jobs being threatened. That's why you've got the largest conglomerate of unions in the united states the afl cio is even come out against things like the green new deal because they're worried About the future of their jobs so to try and say that like oh well look at the meat potatoes issues They're all just dumb brainwashed americans. That's not necessarily true I think there are legitimate reasons for workers and some of these industries to be concerned about the future of their jobs When you've got democrats that are getting a lot of pressure internal and external to revitalize the entire fossil fuel sector And make it green in a way that might not be compatible with the workers that already exist in that sector Okay, so the democrats are cracking down on these old industries supposedly supposedly they're cracking down, right? We're supposed to believe that For some pipelines not hey, don't interrupt me. I didn't interrupt you. You did. They're doing this seven times Yeah, yeah, but I let you I let you talk eventually after a show. It's my turn now. Yeah, so they did this because um They're supposedly acting on behalf of what's in everyone's interests But if they can't reconcile this with what's in the immediate interests of these West virginia workers, why is that? Why can't democrats provide a suitable alternative for that? We're going to go in circles again for these west virginia workers When they're pursuing this agenda because they're remaining entrapped in this vicious cycle where they're leaving these people with no option But to back the conservative Fossil fuel industries because they have no alternative, right and that conveniently just so happens to benefit the sources of revenue Significant sources of revenue for the democratic party. So it's like in the form of These industries and these this ruling class that benefits from it So this is a good example actually of what i'm talking about the vicious cycle of laying the blame on the constituency Now as far as this as a marxist stuff as a marxist, all I would say about these social issues and these ideological issues That seem to divide americans is that they're just an interface for meat and potatoes issues I mean social issues are not things people care about in and of themselves They are signifiers of social differences when you're for example coming out against You know this environmental bullshit You're signaling to other people that you're part of some kind of same social group and social class when you're more pro LGBT or more pro progressive on social issues You're basically signaling oftentimes and this actually can be proven directly Socially that you represent the urban educated Professional managerials and so on and so on not to say that those issues are inherently tied to those classes But that's just the point these are signifiers of Social differences that are based on meat and potatoes and this can actually be proven based on how inconsistent People are attached to them Um And how you can almost entirely pin why people attribute significance to them on the basis of basically social signifiers So the problem that you're running into is you're trying to say that democrats can't get through Huge roadblock x because they haven't given us all of solutions y But the issue is a lot of americans don't even agree that x is an issue This is the problem that you're running into you keep trying to say well Democrats can't give an alternative to what these fossil fuel workers are going to be doing once those industries are shut down That's absolutely not true The green new deal basically outlines the idea behind federal jobs guarantees and all sorts of other things to try to give these people Jobs afterwards when when that when those industries get shut down But the problem is something like the green new deal is incredibly controversial even within the democratic party You're trying to say that because democrats can't democrats can't give you an ideal utopian world for these workers After this huge change goes through they have no solutions to anything But the reality is is a lot of people in america don't even agree that that change needs to go through Half of america probably doesn't think that climate change is a real thing that's driven by Manmade causes when you have that big of a division in genuine american opinion Genuine voter opinion the idea that these people are supposed to come together on a solution to a problem They don't even agree exists is ludicrous and then to take that a step further and to get conspiratorial And to blame it as like big business and big interest and try to say that that's the reason why Lawmakers in congress are opposed to it when you can find a genuine division in american people over these issues Is just nonsense Um, so you're saying americans agree. It's not even an issue but What happens when the workers of west virginia are faced with the crisis of the fact that things cannot go on As they used to is this Is this an inevitability or is this only because the democrats are going to arbitrarily crack down on these industries Isn't there sources within the market itself that are leading to a decline Of the viability of these industries the fossil fuel industry What can you say that? I don't understand what you just said isn't the fossil fuel industry declining based not only on the political factors But also based on the market factors It's starting to yeah with a lot of government incentivization. Yeah on the other end So when it comes to what you're saying, well, they don't even see it as an issue Do you agree it objectively is an issue whether they? Supposedly see that or not Yeah, is it an issue for them and for their lives? I mean, I would say that it is of course Okay, so if it objectively is an issue for them in their lives, then it is reasonable to assume You can somehow persuade them to see that or at least Explain that to them in a way that makes sense to them Then go on the campaign trail and explain to all the people in west virginia and any other fossil fuel heavy state that Hey, maybe if I was gonna be good for you guys Well, that's what that's precisely what joe biden was supposed to do and he failed utterly in doing that Which is why I view him as having a disastrous record up to this point Okay, um, so one of big one of joe biden's principal failures Was that he wasn't able to convince the republican party that fossil fuels have become outdated Don't say the republican party. We're talking about the on the ground Working class constituents of joe mansion and other potentially republican on the ground working as people don't care about climate change Well, does it affect their lives objectively? It might in the future But right now for somebody earlier that was talking about meat and potatoes issues Are you really going to try to tell me that an average like nine to five workers coming home thinking about co2 levels in the ocean? You just said that as far as Uh, that's concerned It is starting to objectively affect their lives because of market signals Not necessarily because of some abstract agenda about climate change The market signals might have gotten there on a broader state level for some energy programs In some southern states so far But that doesn't mean that the average american is feeling the pressure of climate change such that they're ready to take action Not climate change, but a shift even a shift in energy I think most of the major shifts in energy have come I think california is a big state maybe arizona Nevada I think it's these southern states that have like a lot of sunlight in them are the ones that are able to most adapt to these Um solar panel basically things. I know in the midwest I think they've got a lot of wind energy But I don't think this is making up a very high percentage so far of american energy yet Not enough for people to see a difference So what you're basically saying is that the only reason workers in west virginia would ever see Uh, the only reason for why this issue is going to affect them is because of climate change in the future It might be prices as well But if you're going to talk about how eventually market signals are going to move in economy I'm saying they already are I mean they are starting the price of gas All you're going to have then is in five years or 10 years when when that starts to happen more and more You're just going to have an entire fossil fuel industry whose workers are now out of work I don't understand what this is supposed to solve or what so so the whole point is Why can this not somehow be conveyed or made sensible to the people of west virginia themselves have the democrats done a good job Of doing that because all of these issues are highly divisive issues in the in the american political economy So you're saying they don't have the trust of those people It might be that they don't trust the government. It might be they don't trust the democrats It might I don't it's probably a wide variety of reasons why people don't believe in certain things But when I ask so when you ask me a question about what can be done And I say there's a wide variety of possibilities. I I can only tell you that but when I ask you It's like do you not see the double standard here? You can't give me an example. No, no, no, no. Hold on. I'm asking you What can joe biden do to give me an example or why hold on give me an example Why the democrats can't convince the workers of west virginia? I'm asking you What can biden do to solve or alleviate? Inflation that was a question I asked because you said he should be doing more to solve or alleviate inflation And you're asking me why do americans have opinions about a particular Large social issue or large economic issue. These two questions are very different from one another Well, if they were floating heads in the air, maybe it would but the question is why do these opinions contrast so Uh So greatly with what you would probably agree with or maybe you don't agree that there's such a thing as their objective interest For I mean it depends on what constituency you're talking about So for some people there might be social interests that override an economic interest for other people They might genuinely be voting against their own economic interests, but they're not necessarily aware of it for other groups of people Say rural versus city. We're talking about the people of west virginia. We're talking about who the people of west virginia Even within west virginia. There's probably some divide amongst rural or city voters I don't know exactly the workers of west virginia in the oil industry right now Okay, so you're so what is your specific question? You're asking why aren't they on board with green energy? Why is it? If it is supposedly objectively in their interest to be on board with the government's agenda to crack down on the fossil fuel industry Why why are they opposed to it? My guess is they're probably opposed to it is because there's a ton of historic industry And there's probably generations of workers that have all worked in these areas and they don't want to see those areas threatened That'd be my guess, but it is objectively in their interests according to you I don't like using the word objectively, so I would say probably is yeah But but people don't but you think it's just subjectively and it's not objective I would I would argue that objectively it is but people are pretty short term with their approach to things They don't really think long term generally people are going to do what what is in their best interest in the short term And generally maximize for that rather than thinking like well, maybe if I sacrifice my jobs today Maybe my children's future will be that's not generally people think because they don't know if in the future Things are going to be better for them So especially the government doesn't have a great track record of taking care of people that have been displaced in certain industries So here's a question for you if the former president trump um Went to the people of west virginia and said hey guys listen. We got to pack it up this Type of industry is not working anymore. We're going to get you new jobs We're going to do you think they would be more trusting of president? Sorry. I can't say that former president trump Then they would have of uh Mr. Joe Biden, I don't know. Maybe maybe not. I mean answer what you really think Would they be more probably not? No, I don't think so not around this issue. No So when it comes to this they would be just as much skeptical of trump probably as joe biden If these diehard maga people that are in west virginia these workers of west virginia, you think they wouldn't So my my I have three good examples for this trump promised an infrastructure bill. It never came Trump promised a repeal and replace of health care. It never happened And trump is literally telling people to get vaccinated and he get boot. He gets booted his own rallies So when you try to present to me here trump is this idealistic Idol who people will literally worship and do whatever they say these maga worshiping trump people Like americans do certain things, but they're not going to blindly follow a leader into everything when they have contradictory interests to do So I just give you three really good examples where it seemed like no trump can rule the united state I gave you three one trump can rule the united states and get his agenda done That's not always going to be the case if trump were to come out and say listen guys We're going to get rid of fossil fuels and we're going to go green energy after that contradicts all of his prior Messing and he can't even get people to take vaccines I don't think that people in west virginia are going to jump on board to put up a whole bunch of solar panels And to act all of their own batteries and turn it into to try to do point out Because that's an issue of signaling if he said green new deal and use this Uh, it's not about the word you're yes, it is It absolutely is about that It absolutely we're on some high levels of copium. No, it absolutely is about that if he were to use these, uh Democrat political coded words like green new deal and stuff Obviously he would be signaling to his constituency. He could call them american freedom solar panels Whatever he wanted to he still wouldn't get support for it. Hey, guess what? It's the same when it comes to vaccines too The reason he gets booed when it comes to vaccines is because his signaling to his constituency about vaccines Isn't very distinguishable from the kind that the mainstream media is absolutely. He calls it the trump vaccine So what he still is signaling the same type of message Oh, you basically you have to get vaccinated that is inherently something that's become politicized And you don't think him saying we have to revitalize our energy into green energy Isn't something that's been politicized. He would not word it that way Why couldn't he word the vaccine would basically why do you think he can word that definitely but he couldn't for a vaccine? um He could he can't for the vaccine right now because the vaccine is inherently politically decisive right now How how would what i'm not to push you on this exhibit. How do you think trump could have worded? The green energy to be more palatable to the republican party He wouldn't first of all He would not say green energy because there's no reason to think those are the types of jobs people would have in west virginia Green energy is not relevant what he would say Is that this old energy is dying these corrupt special interests or whatever? We're gonna get you brand new shining jobs So you say some shit like that and I think people would be on board with it Okay, maybe that would have been an interesting world to see I guess um I mean you don't think that trump's constituency would be more the question is would they trust him more On this at least then biden you said no, I think that's ridiculous I mean they might trust him a bit more But it's not going to be enough to get anything done here Like he still wasn't even able to get his agenda passed as much as he wanted to in office. I don't know which agenda I named two huge things. He wanted to get an infrastructure plan passed. He wasn't able to do it He wanted to repeal in place over the main obstacles to his infrastructure plan Getting enough votes in the senate in the house from the republicans Yes, they had majorities in both Okay, and which republicans were an obstacle to trump. I don't know the name of every they're called the rhinos, right? Yeah, trump calls everybody that doesn't vote with the rhinos exactly So what is happening to those rhinos as they're facing a reelection? I I don't know. I haven't followed all of their elections Do you think that i'm guessing given that trump had a way bigger majority in the senate than what biden has now in the house probably all of them aren't replaced like Okay, but how do you think that a lot of them have been replaced? I don't know. I haven't followed every election. I'm not sure Okay, well, do you think it would be reasonable to assume a lot of them have been replaced given the direction of the republican party and what it means now I have no idea. Okay. Well, the whole overarching point is trump named them He said these are the rhinos who are getting in our way and he was able to actually signal against them and rally his constituency against them and now Trump's word as far as his endorsement of republicans has become so decide It's an integral part of the republican party. That's not always true though. Really? Look at the special election with roim more That guy didn't that guy got destroyed Even though trump literally threw everything he could behind hold on I didn't say that trump supporting someone is going to guarantee him. They're going to win Okay, because it's like it's almost exactly. Hold on. No, because what i'm saying is it seems to me That if trump does not support a republican candidate, they're almost guaranteed to lose I don't know if that is the case, but um, I haven't followed like trump appointed or trump supported candidates recently If there's a I would be so there has to be only the smallest type of exceptions that get the republican party is Would you agree the party of trump right now? I think there's a huge divide right now in the republican party over whether or not they're the party of trump Hold on. There's not a divide in the republican party so far as its constituency is concerned. There's a divide as far as the old established Neoconservative and so on and so on elements within the republican party not within the actual constituency If you whether or not you want to call out the party of trump, we're going to find out in the next election cycle But to say right now that anybody knows like this is a question that's well No, we do know we do know that the republican party's overwhelming source of support is The maga movement without the maga movement. There is no republican party What it what it what does the republican party represent right now except trump? We can say that but there are also a historic amount of republicans that left the party post january 6 So they all yeah, it's a really complicated question You can't pretend to say that you understand the entire makeup of how the republican party is going to vote in the next Set of the republicans you're talking about are the um Suburbanites that we're already going over to the democrats anyway because of the political there's like there's an excuse or a reason for everything There's a reason for everything.  Sure. Yeah, when you impose a question I'm going to answer your question Okay, so the difference between you and me is I will give a broader narrative And then when you ask me for explanations about it I will say I'll support it and I'll support it and I'll support it when you give a broader narrative I'll say this doesn't make sense that doesn't make sense and then you have like a Reason for what well, okay, there's an exception here. Oh, there's an exception Let's go back to the potatoes of what I just gave an explanation for and why that was inadequate Sure, I think it had to do with whether or not Trump could fundamentally rally Republicans in a certain direction for something despite the fact that he wasn't able to accomplish No, it was about why republicans as you said left the party in january 6th And you're saying that the people that left weren't true republicans So they were people that left because of their social class and I don't want to be too ideological But let's just be pragmatic about it Those were the suburbanites that the democrats had been banking on since the 2018 midterms elections Who were already swaying over to the democrats So both There are more people in american politics that are like more moderate than there are people in the extreme left or the extreme right That's not my point to try to say that the people that switched republicans Everybody as a mass as a mass republicans who are disillusioned with trump are an identifiable mass There's a consistency as far as their social background is concerned Which is they are the new kind of conservative suburbanites who have been swaying more democrat It's not like january 6th happened and all of a sudden you just had a bunch of republicans going Hold on i was on board with this whole mega thing completely with no mixed feelings But now this is too far. I'm going to the democrats No, those are people who already had mixed feelings and were already flirting with the democrats And that's the point i made and when i gave that point you said you always seem to have a reason or explanation for everything Well, yeah, okay, so then you're so you're saying the republican fact the fact that republicans have left because of january 6th Does not speak to a real division within the republican party It speaks to the fact that there were elements within the republican party who were already again because of the political Realignment that's happened Going to the democrats that was much you're just describing a division in a party When i say there's a division in the party and you go well, there's not a division in a party There's just elements of the party that are attempting to realign with the other party Wouldn't that be there's a little party? Hold on There's a political realignment and a minority who are already going over to the democrats left Okay, that's not a that's not a conflict for the soul of the party That's a that's a conflict between the democrats and the republicans within the party itself. There's no real division What elements within the party are going to be able to challenge trump and say hey everyone who joined the democrats since january 6th Um, we're gonna change this republic. It's it's dead in the water.  That's what everybody is looking forward to Nobody knows for the next so you are seriously entertaining the possibility that there's going to be a new republican party led by I don't know link in progress now that there's a new republican party It's that right now that I think there is a legitimate huge division in the republican party over how people view donald trump I think there is a large sect of the republican party that is still and by division Do you mean the actual constituency or these old? Corrupt politicians. I mean the actual voters themselves. I think are very torn on whether or not they do or do not support trump I don't think the vast majority of republicans are all gung-ho all it should take is all it should take is uh The soon-to-be-president jeb bush to rally half of this republican ever said it's going to be a jeb bush Well, that's it's as ridiculous as what you're saying So you think that right now the republican party every the majority of the constituents are locked up behind trump Absolutely, then why do they boo him at his rallies when he talks about getting vaccinated? Because they're even more to the right of trump right now. Okay There's no division within the republican party. Okay I mean those are people who are even more hardcore trump than trump himself How can you be more trump than trump himself?  I mean if we represent trump In terms of the division within the republican party Do you think the Lincoln project people are going to boo vaccines because those are the only people Within the republican party who are posing as an alternative to trump I think you've had big figureheads in the republican media establishment that have been pretty against trump for the entirety of his election Okay, and you talked about january 6. Do you think that the people who are upset over january 6 are going to be anti-vaccine? I don't know what the makeup of the people are the left of course They're not the people who are upset over january 6 Are going to be pro-vaccine because they're going to be more pro establishment plenty of questions from the audience So if you have any questions, please come on up if you want to speak into this microphone This would be the place to do it and then in addition A couple of things one is we kind of tried to open up this middle area So that there can be kind of like a two lane kind of road here So that you can walk up this way and also walk down this way that way You don't have to go over the cords and then the second thing is we're going to bump the infrared versus dylan bern's debate up to Probably about one o'clock is when we're shooting to have that debate just so we can get everybody to their flights in time All right. Thanks for your patience All right, this is a quick question the debate was titled did biden deliver well And i missed the initial few minutes of it But what i heard was excuses why biden did not deliver well Not whether or not he did So if he delivered well, can you Provide some sort of evidence for what he has delivered So i think that the child tax credit under the coronavirus relief was good I think the stimulus that he gave the second checks that came when he came into office was good And I think that the uh bargaining to get both sides together to pass the infrastructure bill were good I would say that those are good. Oh, and then pulling out of afghanistan finally I would say that those are big accomplishments that biden himself can take credit for Thank you for coming guys. You both did great. Um early on in the debate This is the vibe I got and I could be completely wrong about this but destiny You believe that like a president should primarily be focused on like breaking the divide of congress to get things done That otherwise wouldn't be done like biden is good because he gets things done and passes good policies And has um, you believe that president should primarily be focused on being a leader with strong principles That serve as both the guide and representative of the will of the people biden is bad because um, he's out of touch with the people And he does not adequately convince and build trust with the working man Um, if my analysis is generally correct, can either of you respect why the other might have that criteria Or at least can you try to steal man in each other's position? Uh my criticism of destiny in a broad sense has always been that he treats political He doesn't know when to uh divide political realities between subjective and objective He treats certain realities as objective and set in stone that actually relate to a subjective political will So for example, he'll say oh, we can't do this because this is what the american people want But he never poses the question. Why do they want this and I think maybe this is where Maybe my marxism may come in and he I am open to people opposing this, but I think there should be an explanation for why do people vote the way they do Or have the opinions that they do. I think there's an underlying reason. That's not just a superficial ideological appearance That was the steel man version of my argument.  We're isolated from the broader economic issues that face most of working class america So it's more fun to talk about a person as a leader as somebody that's really bombastic or awesome on twitter Then it is to see well, what kind of legislation does the person actually pass? What kind of measurable improvement does a person actually make in the lives of americans on the ground? So I think that's why people online that do politics are way more interested in a twitter version of a president Than somebody that's actually passing legislation Hello gentlemen Um, I want to I know on super chat we're usually allowed to say so I want to thank uh, james again for hosting this This was a great since yesterday from today, uh from participating to the debaters. Uh, I really appreciate it I know this is definitely needed and I appreciate you and I wish us good fortune in the future for more debates uh quick question, uh or Uh All political parties just got eliminated president infrared president Destiny, what is your first objective? What is your first thing you want to tackle? Do you want to go first? Why don't you go first? The first thing I would tackle I'm going to have to give you a very broad answer because the question is very broad But the very first thing I would tackle is uh, the crisis of the american dream and the american way of life How are we going to re-establish a baseline form of? Way of life and income Similar to the one that was after world war two. So I'm concerned with americans are losing their way of life How can we make sense of this chaos and arrive at a new normal? more or less Um, if I was god emperor, are we saying like president president or like god emperor president?  I think that that would address so many broader problems in our society. It would help with public transit. It would help with density of cities. It would help with Like the cost of housing It would help with getting labor to the right place There's so many issues that can be traced back to our atrocious zoning in the united states I think that healthcare is something that we should be able to provide to all of our citizens It's something that every other country seems to be able to do. I don't know why we haven't figured that out yet I would say that guaranteeing education for those that are capable of succeeding in it Is probably a good idea Without a ton of debt as well. And then I think that having Expansive labor union laws So maybe bringing back some closed shop states or laws in those states Making it so that people are allowed to form stronger labor unions and bringing back some of the older strike laws I think would probably be good as well Because it seems like capital has gotten stronger and stronger and stronger and you haven't seen the same increase In representation on the rights of labor side historically in the united states You both did great. So thank you for doing this debate and all that So my question is for uh infrared You kept bringing up earlier in the debate about how Biden is like a weak leader and he can't convince people to do anything and that you made references to fdr and eisenhower So my question to you is do you believe that the country is as united as a people? As they were under fdr and eisenhower and hell even bush w And i'll just take my question out there to me one of the ways to measure the greatness of a leader Is their ability to bring people together in times of great division? Lincoln did this Fdr in a sense did this So To me that's how I would measure whether it's someone is a good president or a good leader in the first place So you think that these leaders brought the country together from a division rather than p backing off of a Uh kind of a united against a particular front Kind of a situation. So can you clarify what you mean? So the great depression brought the country together in order to address the great depression After world war two there was this great euphoria in the country about how we just won world war two And we have to rebuild the world because we're last man standing 9 11 brought the country together under bush and a lot of people rallied around the flag Why can't the common crisis that we're all facing bring this country together a good leader should be able to bring the country together In a way that is proportionate to the crisis we face. What is the common crisis? That's what I would ask the common crisis. We're facing. You don't think is a common crisis compared to like Would you say that bush was a great leader because he unified us after 9 11? No bush was a great deceiver Because well, we don't want to get into the nitty gritty of that. Sure. So what is the great? What is the unifying crisis right now that we have? Um, well, I know you're really allergic to this phrase But what they're calling it is the fourth industrial revolution um The breakdown of the old traditional american dream an old way of life And the entrance into a new era the end of american global hegemony the rise of a multipolar world order I mean all of these things everything you're talking about. Do you think the average american working class person is perceiving this? They are not articulating it on these terms, but it is objectively affecting them. Okay so has um What could biden do in the future to change your opinion out of him and steven? What was the worst thing that biden has done that you may acknowledge? So as a marxist my view of politics is that it is a form of Warfare it's a form of social warfare So I don't I don't believe politics is just this place where we execute policies in a very neutral way and You know, that's not how it works politics is class warfare So for me for me to change my opinion of biden he has to position himself differently within the current class warfare Dividing the country He has to position himself against the special interests the corrupt status quo the monopoly The monopolies and so on and so on and hedge his bets in the working man and when he does that sorry If he does that he will never do that To me he will be an admirable leader No, can my allowed to answer like can I answer like hazz does What was the worst thing about it? So I think that biden's biggest problem so far is I think that he's failed to establish himself in kind of the subjective sense of the working class Such that I don't think that these people are able to kind of tangentially relate to him in a way that intersects with the american system And understands the oppressive forces that americans face today in society is what I would say So only destiny can make comedy out of his lack of education He does the work for me That was a very elitist take by hazz realistically I think that biden's biggest problem is I don't feel I like vaccines I think everybody should be vaccinated, but I think that pushing for vaccine mandates to be an osha Even if I think I might agree in principle I think politically is not a good idea because there's such a device of issue in the united states I don't know if it's worth it to expend political capital on that right now So it's more like a question of political strategy not sure 100 how I feel about that at the moment That would probably be my biggest criticism. Yeah Hi for both. Um, I wonder what you think about How much joe biden can do when the republican party basically ahead of time says they're not going to work with them on anything And that there seems to be no hope of swinging a republican senator, for example It's like just a pass that well half the senate's not going to do anything at all Let's blame the other half that nothing's getting done. Yeah, again Again, it's a vicious cycle of shifting blame to constituents Biden is the leader of the democratic party. He cannot blame the republicans for anything He's only responsible for The democratic party if the democrats are unable to win a majority from the republicans That's their fault if if half of the country is voting republican You should blame the if the and if the democrats want to blame the republicans for obstructing their agenda The democrats alone are to blame for not being popular enough Now one can make the argument that the reason they can't do that is because Um people are just set in stone with their opinions and beliefs and that's why they vote republican But when you go ahead and just admit that it is actually objectively in people's interests supposedly I don't even know if I agree with this To be on the side of the democrats I think it's ridiculous. It's preposterous that they would blame the republicans Why have they done a bad job in doing something that should be easy convincing people to vote on behalf of what is supposedly Their objective interests All right, so thank you very much gentlemen. Let's give them a round of applause fantastic debate We're gonna take about a five minute break and then we're gonna get started So thanks so much thrilled to have you here and looking forward to the next debate


Going on everyone Sam here with late in sports cards. You've been 23 a penny score football hobby six box break number three random Team style there's a look again at your random results as always find these on the website under the results tab as well as the link in chat So again guys all of your base rookie and Inserts are all going to be split even all of numbered cards parallels autos They will all be sorted to see you guys now again. It is in the break description Asia and dainty. That's a good one because I was like he was part of that Part of that trade. Hopefully I don't know Kirk. I would assume did Lane do a lot of buying Okay, so yes, Lane did a lot of buying. Yes Yeah, he was awesome No, Zebo is really good Zebo was legit So scorecard of Luke Keekley. So anything I hand you with this will be sleeved. I mean will be sorted TJ Watt, there's Nolan Smith Rookie Otto for the Eagles that's a good one to Spencer George Gerbin and base George Gerbin's a good one I know another guy that kind of a couple guys that really didn't do much outside of defense I just love defense. So I always have like a special place for these guys, but there's Stefan digs CMC but Zaver McDaniel the X-man I loved him in Seattle and then Alvin Robertson on the spurs like both defensive weapons, dude That is a Travis Kelsey scorecard as I have to check. Oh, Mac Jones Paris Johnson Face I have a sign George Gerbin Jersey that has his Hall of Fame inscription. He signed he inscribed at the ice man So I gotta get that from that's in Connecticut. So I could get that to 50 Russell Wilson franchise How that's insane, I didn't realize daintly average that I knew daintly was good with the jazz I didn't realize he was that good with the jazz That's kind of crazy actually how good he was that is a Bailey zappy to 20 you have to recap That's Joe Cleco. Oh, that's so sick Part of the New York sack exchange just got into the Hall of Fame this year Congrats Jets That's really cool him and Gaston. Oh the New York sack exchange. Oh, that's so freaking cool I kind of want that card. I'm not gonna lie That's like oh sweet, dude is Derek Henry Was he traded straight from the pistons to the jazz or do you have another stop before that was he on the Mavs before the jazz? I don't remember because I feel like he was traded for a guire But I don't know if that was Patrick's or tan that is to 10 6 of 10 for the Broncos We've got a Keaton Mitchell for the Ravens to 100 came from Lakers to jazz. Okay, so he had a couple stops pre Or post-pistons pre-jazz that makes sense. There's a Bradley Chubb scorecard From the jazz to Detroit. Okay. Oh, so he was before that. Okay. Dot. Uh, that is Dorian Thompson Robinson going to the Browns So Brett that's his name's Brett, but he's on his way some reason it Jonathan Mingo blue to 2035 Yeah, that's true too. That's true. Well on Eli Rick space auto for the Eagles Who holds the record for the highest scoring average in their 21st season? Man, that's gotta be a tough one It's Parker Washington for the Jaguars Anthony Richardson Uh jsn And base It's all split even All split even I feel like I had some I feel like somebody on the gym alone. I feel you'd be Malone Yeah, the answer will be LeBron next year. That's true Aiden O'Connell scorecard Mac Jones And base Vince Carter. Wow Vince Carter. I'm surprised on that 7.1 Oh, Noah Sewell That is orange to 10 3 of 10 for the Bears. Well, I did not make a 21 that makes sense Surprise is not Garnett Garnett would have been my next guess Before uh Vince Carter that is James Connor Here's Alan. It's Gino. Yeah, that was a nice little uh Pull for the Bears there. That's Penne's brother from the the lion Penne school Mahabedah Ibrahim blue to 100 for the Lions Scorecard Micah Parsons Nice 21st. I guess that makes sense Uh Christian Gonzalez blue auto to 35 grads patriots their first rounder That is a Bryce Young. There you go Panthers scorecard rookie CMC JK all-day Dobbins on the auto for the Ravens All right, it's Baltimore JK all day JK holdouts Let's go Yankees Yankees are back bro Yankees are so back Josh Allen to 100 blue score Love chasing Gonzalez this year. Yeah, that'll be that'll be pretty fun one Uh 42 99 move 42 99 but all uh all rookies base and inserts are all split even it's just parallels And um autos and numbered cards that are sent to their teams Bradley chubb red to 20 Bijan and all your rookies Scorecard DJ more Josh Allen Will Anderson Kendra Miller For the saints on the rookie auto grad saints Oh Yeah, there should be a few more schedules this week. Probably got a decent amount of score back there We usually do Uh marlin humphrey scorecard. We got points coming up here everybody It's gonna be 600 Red them to all at the end and base Score's pretty decent. You get a lot of autos out of here, which is you get like eight or uh four autos of box This is always nice is smaj P. Ryan hollard Numbered there michael meyer blue to 100 for the raiders box niners rams Points that is going to be 250 random to all at the end Um, so the rams would be zack evans. The box would be rakeem jaret Niners nobody probably vet autos more than anything vet numbered stuff Or rashad white apparently blue to 100 there there you go philip as well My homes and base my thomas scorecard I'm counting the scorecards for its data earlier marvin mims auto for the broncos. Nice one there denver Um forest counted the scorecards as parallels earlier, so i'm just gonna do what he did on that one count those as uh Sorted as well T law scorecard That is a olave You're all in this guy. That's pretty sweet. All right.  I agree chris. I think mims is going to be good. There's mac hollins For the raiders to be your gibbs smile's garret Desmond ridder Uh, oh second-year auto 250 for the falcons grats, idlanta 40 of 50 Good old desmond ridder Andres, uh, ios evos. That is to 20 red for the bangles on the rookie ios evos Oh jamal charles on the auto nice to 50. I love it, dude Grats on that go to the sheeps. Very cool Love me some jamal charles back in the day. That gives a beast in the 2020 tens That is derrius davis anthony richardson It's really cool jamal charles. I'm so in on that So in on the jamal charles that is jaylen carter on the gold to 50 for the eagles Burra jamar chase auto. I hit like two. Oh nice. Let's go mook Jamar chase signing his redemptions now I agree on that chris to be honest Jamal charles did like define a generation him cj2k marise jones drew arian foster Like darin mcfadden. Those are all like those great running backs I'm sure i'm missing like one or two, but those really good running adrian peterson, obviously Some of those awesome running backs from that that era at cedric tilman An agerian nightmare was the man too romeo dobs. It's blue to 100 Tank bigsby how to say a cup of cup scorecard for the rams that's my reader jsn uh de forest buckner green five of six for the colts Nice one there colts Go targets Priest holmes. Yeah, shon alexander. I remember that that shon alexander years dance It was insane same thing with toblinson, of course Yeah, they pick him the next year and he breaks his wrist I know yeah pat frarmyou Same thing with stinking that prime I pick him up next year He stinks never knew it. He was playing softball or something else. I know in the worms that yeah Weird dude going to stealers de joneson. I thought it gave up It was it's like that's we're talking like we're going on like four hours now That's sad, dude. That's sad That's that that that's that individual's third burner account of the day. Just so you guys know peter skaronski cream hunt base auto for the browns Nibana What do you say something else? No Yeah Ligaret blunt on the patriots was disgusting He was just uh, he was such like uh A vulture though There's a Quentin Johnson to a hundred I guess I you could say that for sure Philip. You could say that I'll give him. I'll give him a round of applause for persistence, but Man, it's annoying. It is just annoying that cj shroud for the Texans to a hundred Nice one there Houston Sharpen it Take that Johnson. That is a zay jones Nice one there for the Jags tanks tank bigsby rookie auto for the jaguars that is our uh Um Guy does our be right back. I have to agree with you. All right. Yeah, let's go underrated football players now of all time Um toke and twitch mentioned matt forte. I think that's a really good pick. Matt forte is a great pick Uh fred warrant that is going to be points again 250 points Yeah, shon alexander was He like I mean won an mvp too.  Obviously, it's crazy Beep boop, right exactly exactly Just him and ap and yeah in the last like 25 years exactly Yeah, I know you could literally have a 10 part 10 part podcast. Yeah, I guess you have to go by position I think we could go by position of the most underrated quarterback of all time. We'll start with that. That's a good That's a good call to bond joe thomas Sluke musgrave Yeah, jason taylor is a good one dolphin guy. Yeah um Zach yeah, marky's colston. That's a great call to move. He was he was really good especially for where he came from darnel mooney Yeah, don't be be was good too It was what a bill. Yeah bill guy. Yeah Dexter lorence blue to 35 Yeah, I think you could put steve smith up there too andre johnson i'd put up there for like his Like how much his just receptions his brawl receptions every year were insane. He always led the league in receptions uh, zack earth's blue to 35 I love steve smith on the ravens. He just had such an attitude dude. It was awesome He'll have it. Oh exactly. He'll just he'd get into a fight with anybody did not matter who it was He'd take on the entire defense by himself kind of gain. Well I'll golf base to me. There's marky's hollywood brown auto for the cardinals marcedes-luis.  I just feel like he's I feel like marcedes-luis is kind of a guy who's just starting to hang around a little bit in stat padding Kelly ringo Yeah, plunk it. You could put up there bold ins another good one Romeo dobs base auto for the packers The ice up son What do you what do you have to say to a cube to leave man? He didn't even finish the game tell him ice up son ice up When he first went back into carolina when uh, he was on the ravens his first game back. He goes I'll never forget To a hundred sam howl one of my like it just fires me up here and i'm saved every time Is uh, he was like it was someone was asking what what are your what are your thoughts on returning carolina? He goes he's like y'all better bring some goggles about to be blood and guts everywhere Now that was like, oh dude, let's go. He had like two touchdowns like 130 yards like a buck 30. It was awesome Freaking one of the best performances in my opinion uh, henry toe-oo toe-oo for the texans to 50 dany woodhead dany woodhead was uh Shifty little guy for sure Danny woodhead knew how to get around people he was he was awesome Kyle Trask Mike jones jr. Rookie Otto for the falcons Yeah, douce vaughn douce vaughn looks so funny and highlights when he's running around. It's awesome Yeah, dany woodhead take a solid for sure. I just don't think dany woodhead had the like Had the the longevity Scrolls. Yeah, he was good daren sprawls Yeah, that's a good pic too. Sean there 250 points friend dog.  I want to bring a little kid to the super bowl. I think you should uh You should apply Mike al stop worked on dude worked on was awesome He was uh, you went to the college when he was there, right?  I think that's another good one He was really good great in college Really good in new york really good in washington for a bit too I'll stop playing afl blitz. There's uh, andre isivas Yeah, I'll stop was really good. I'll stop is Is a great player, dude hawk santaniel holmes, I just think santaniel holmes once he was off pittsburgh was just not never the same I think jim mcman Donald driver. Oh, Donald driver's a good one jim mcman's a good one Stephen jackson another great one ronnie brown the former dolphin When they ran that wildcat was awesome. I know he basically that year they made the playoffs that random year Michael vick blued 100 and they were running it was like with pennington was the 30 quarterback made ronnie brown Running the wildcat all the time. They had to Roger craig True True and hit one of one in arsenal. Wow That is a dexter lorns Roger craig's a good one. Roger craig's shockingly is not in the hall of fame Gabe davis auto nice one there for the bull uh bills bills. Geez Yeah, run ricky runs one of the best 30 for 30s That I agree. I love that one. That was so good There's jay caner uh javante williams auto for the broncos Nice one denver is 235 quinton johnson blue for the chargers There's denzel ward for the browns orange color match to 10 nice one there uh gleeblund Like I think brent grimes is a little bit underrated now too Especially being from such a small like where was he from shippenberg? I think he went to college I think he was really good corner. Once he got his contract from the bucks. He wasn't as good though Yeah, ricky waters was good ricky waters was really good There's drew breeze this guy was a really cool ricky waters collection on instagram Sean tucker Gold auto to 50 for the bucks. Nice one there you go tampa. I think that's uh Uh, yeah, philip. There you go philip Congrats phil. Uh, tim tefo. I mean college you're talking about college is awesome. Uh, larry it is um All like everything will ship everything all the base rookies and inserts will be split even among all the spots collar mary Sean, do you see points again? 250 random to all at the end. So I think we've got four points five points now And base. All right, let's do a quick random here for the points Thank you, sir. We've got 600 which will go to the top and four 250s Vince young. Oh man. I know Vince young was so electric in college dude All right guys, we're gonna roll the dice again, uh five teams after four times will get uh points You've got 600 and then four 250s. So one Two three and four we've got uh eagles picking up the 600 uh raiders the cowboys uh cults and patriots Do a quick recap here guys. Uh viper they're over on channel two. Let me drop you a link to that real quick Uh over on lsc channel two. Kyle is doing personals tonight um There is your Link to channel two. No problem viper Are we at jamonte williams gape davis mike jones romeo dobs marquise brown tank bigsby cream hunt deontae johnson marvin mims andre miller jk dobbins christing and zealots 35 Eli ricks dorian thompson robinson joe cleco nolan smith desmond ridder to 50 jamal charles to 50 and shawnt talker to 50 That will uh do it for the break guys. Thanks again for the film coming up next is score number four