So, welcome to our next talk. Our speaker is Elisabeth Niegrins. She is a lawyer, and she also works for the Digital Society in Berlin. And she studied in Leipzig. She studied law in Leipzig. And she also worked in criminal law. And she wrote a series of books about chaos and transformation. But today, our topic is a little different. It is about how international treaties on metadata extradiction work and how the EU evidence ruling will change this and how political persecution could have a new dimension in the future. So please give a warm welcome to our speaker, Elisabeth Niegrins. Yes, thank you very much for the announcement. Thank you for the introduction. Thanks a lot for the announcement and the introduction. And I'm delighted to be able to talk to you about this topic today. As was mentioned in the introduction, I want to talk about the EU perspective. So this is being talked about in parliament right now. And I'm sure that many of you have learned about it. So in some countries, providers will be obligated to hand over metadata. So this is not a singular prospect, but it comes in the context of many other regulations of the past few years. And I wanted to bring some context into this whole matter. So it is also about international law that is being questioned here, especially when it's about electronically storing data. And we have to have a look at if we want companies like Facebook and Google to be able or to be obligated to hand over data to jurisdiction. For example, this is a topic in Germany right now because of hate crimes that are being committed on the internet. So it is not a question that we can have a single perspective on. But we need to look at it from different angles because it's going to be an international transfer of email and transaction data. And it is about the question whether and in how far German authorities should be involved in this question. And it's also about companies like TikTok from China or companies from Russia that could be involved in criminal investigations in Germany or other countries because people meet up and that happens on those kind of platforms. So what is at stake here? Because it might be possible for Chinese authorities, for example, to get access to German data. And how would we react if these countries were able to access data from Germany? So what is being postulated is that then internet can be a free space and in more like it is at the moment. But we need access to certain kinds of data. And this is a debate that is not universal and enough just yet. So I would like to get a few different viewpoints on this. So what is this regulation trying to fix? As the EU Commission says, the internet is largely privately owned and borderless for everyone except authorities pursuing criminal investigations. So cloud services, social media being important for our daily work, and that means that many data is saved and that means that authorities and criminal persecution is interested in that. So the problem arises where data is saved across borders because then it is difficult for authorities to access them because normally authorities and police can only act within their own national borders. And there have been trends in the past few years like unilateralism and like authorizations widening across borders. So of course, police, forces, and national authorities want access to data from abroad. And on the other hand, we also have directives that forbid this interaction between authorities. And that rule that countries instead have their right to do their own investigations and rely on their own means. So if we think of unilateralism, that is problematic because national sovereignty has the function to defend fundamental rights. So let's have a look back or at the present how there's this cooperation between authorities, law enforcement authorities work. This is how it works so far. For many years or even for centuries, we have had legal assistance treaties or called MLAT. So you have bilateral and multilateral treaties on how countries cooperate. So for example, we have rulings that articulate that people are extradited to other countries in case they have committed crimes there. And I think it is obvious that this law about extraditing can be very relevant in international politics. So it is about extradiction, but also lower level things like confiscating documents and devices and things like that. So Germany is part of many of these international treaties since the Second World War. And normally it works like that. A country files for extradition or another kind of action. And then the other country has to check if that is within their interest. And then, well, the proceedings are like that. One state is then acting in their function as a country within another country. But countries can also refuse these kinds of cooperation, for example, for political reasons, but also dual criminality. Because the crime that has been committed must be defined as a crime in both countries. For example, that was the case with Putschdemont in Spain who wasn't extradited from Germany because his crime wasn't a crime in Germany. So this is because the countries just have a different definition of what is a crime. So the auto-public is very basic things about the public order. And the NABBC in Edem means that for every crime, a person can only be prosecuted once and not twice. The problem with this is that this is usually a diplomatic route. And there are a lot of different organizations involved. And that's why it takes a long time. According to the EU Commission, 10 months is the norm at the moment between the standards at the moment between EU countries. So everyone agrees that this should be easier and quicker, especially with electric data, which change quickly so you can't use an IP address very long. In 2013, the US government tried to do something new. They forced Microsoft to give them the emails from a user. And the special thing was that these data were saved at Microsoft server. And Microsoft did not comply. They said that they do not have the right to request them. And the EU data protection law does not allow us to give you the letters. They lost in front of the court in the first part. And the second part, the second instance, say one, because the court said that the law they wanted to apply is not enough to force Microsoft to give the email to the US prosecutors. So a lot of this court, this case, came in front of the Supreme Court and a lot of international organizations handed reports in, for example, reporters without borders. And this resulted in a new law, namely the Cloud Act. Cloud meaning clarifying lawful use of data, meaning that US companies have to give data to US prosecutors, irrespective of where they are saved. If you are in conflict with a law of a different country, then the company is allowed to refuse if the person is not a US citizen or if it risks the company violating the laws of another country, but not every country. But only countries with which the US has some special treaty. At the moment, there aren't that many countries with which the US has such a treaty. But recently the UK signed such a treaty, meaning that companies which are in the US, say, companies in the US are forced to either violate the US or the EU law because the GDPR does not allow companies to give the data to the US prosecutors. But in the US, they can be forced to do it. So that's another reason for signing these treaties because then you can also force companies to give data to EU countries which are saved, stored in the US. And a lot of prosecutors in the EU want this because there are a lot of companies in the US. So that's why the UK signed such an agreement, as I already mentioned in October. And there was a lot of criticism of this because, first of all, it could be an example for other countries. And... But they did not specify what exactly this means for countries with different laws. So with the UK, they have a very similar law with the US. But they did not clarify what happens if a country has a much lower standards regarding independence of judges and similarity. So politically, you have to regulate with how the EU states or countries can access data stored in another country in the EU. That's how we get to the treaty I mentioned earlier. The UK already signed the treatment because before they signed the EU treaty, so that's kind of problematic because the EU should find an agreement before some country signs a treaty with another country. So what does this evidence treaty say? So this regulates the relationship of states in the EU. There are different kind of data types and there are different treatments of these different kind of data. But the basic thing is that the country A would not contact state B, but the country A, let's say Bulgaria, would, for example, directly contact a company in Austria with a request. And Austria only has the requirement that if the company does not comply, then the country B, in this case Austria, has to force a company to give out the data. This has to be fairly quickly and in the fastest case, up to six hours. And there should be sanctions up to 2% of their yearly profits. So this strictly violates the sovereignty of the country because another country can contact the company directly. And the biggest problem is that the criterion of mutual crimes is not necessary. What does that mean? In most cases, the laws are not similar. So, for example, in Malta, it's illegal to abort. If a doctor from Malta does these abortions and communicates with German people via posteo, then posteo could be forced to give data to the Malta's prosecutors. And in Poland, it's illegal to say that Polish people participated at the Holocaust. So if people in Poland publish such statements on Facebook or Twitter, then these companies are forced to give out data to the Polish prosecutors. So you can imagine a lot of conflicts where, in one state, it is legal and they are absolutely not in agreement that this is a crime. But the company still has to, the private company still has to comply and give out the data. Additionally, especially the direct access, is that if your data is given out, then you have to fight back in a different, you think, the laws of a different country. And also, there are a lot of EU countries where there are a lot of problems with the fairness of a lot of court cases. So if you come back to this example, if Bulgaria requests something from a company in Austria, then this request is according to Bulgarian law and not whatever is legal in Austria. So it's possible to have Bulgarian prosecutors allowed to do more in Austria than Austrian prosecutors. And that doesn't really make sense and reduces protections of national protections, for example, in Germany by the highest court. So far, that's not possible to veto anything according to the draft of the Commission. As a state, as a country be here, at the moment, don't have any chance to fight against it or say it's not allowed. It's a little bit different the current draft of the European Parliament. The Commission for Civil Liberties wants to introduce a veto right that includes a 10-day period within which the provider can react to the extradition request by the execution state, for example, because the action is not a crime in their country. This is not a compulsory provision. So the provider has the possibility to have a look into it and to write a statement refusing it. As a digital society, we do not think that this could lead to and all together why control of data. But what would happen if the provider is located in another state that is not in the European Union? That provider has the possibility to address the possibility that they could criminalize themselves through those actions. So when it comes to third states being involved, this is rather a unilateral directive. So of course there is an incentive for other states to postulate regulations that would allow for data to be extracted and delivered to other countries. So my association, Digital Society, has posted an open letter to the European parliamentarians residing in Germany. And there is also an English version of that letter. And we are in exchange with other media representatives and other organizations. So one last regulation that I would like to talk about is the cybercrime convention that dates back to 2001 and is about harmonizing what is considered a crime and also regulates legal aid. And there has been an additional protocol that would have countries be able to directly have other countries send over data. And this involves a lot more states. As far as we know, there are 64 states such as Argentina, Australia, Chile, Japan, Morocco, and many others. So the problems that we currently have in the EU will be exported to other countries, so to say. So we have seen that national authorizations are transgressing borders. And often they digress from the principle that fundamental rights are being protected. And there is the notion that data can't be considered territorial. Jennifer Deskel, a US scientist, for example, says, or has a few arguments why that should be OK, because data is fluid like a water bottle. They are very fast, and they can also be present at many locations at the same time. And also data is controlled by third party. So sometimes people don't have a choice as to where the data is saved. But if you look at data as non-territorial, you have a few fundamental problems. For example, because the protection of fundamental rights cannot be guaranteed in a country where it should be protected. So the national sovereignty would be at stake. And I would also say that it isn't really about internationalization and countries finding standards. But it's about nationalization and national needs and requirements that are being reinforced. So you shouldn't romanticize it. But I would say that the internet still is a space where certain political action can take place. And this is at stake when we talk about physically connecting the internet with the legal authorizations of a country. And this limits freedoms that we have at the moment and that we need. And in some way, we can see the internet as an asylum for people to take political action. For example, if you think of Hong Kong, where activists have to stay anonymous, it is very important that services like Reddit or Telegram or other services that are not located in Hong Kong or China and where the Chinese government doesn't have access to. So many companies that are located in the US do not hand over data to Turkey and for very good reasons, as I'm convinced. And if those companies were obligated to hand over this kind of data, which hasn't happened yet, but which would be the next logical step, then many doors would be closed. So that doesn't mean that this kind of communication can't take place anymore. And that doesn't mean that activists won't find ways to communicate. So for example, they can use proxy service and VPN, but still it restricts people in their political leeway. And that is a considerable thing. So we also see a reduction of press freedom. So political action that is taking place in clouds wouldn't be able to function like it is working now. More concretely, you can see the statement on the slide. So in a Supreme Court case in the US, it was stated that if the US take the right to hand over data to other countries, then other countries would do the same. And there's also the argument that people don't define the location where their data is stored themselves. I think there's many cases, especially with politically active people that do make a conscious choice on where they save their data. And pragmatically, that would also result in a decision being dropped, and that locations become impossible. And lastly, you have the provider as the only instance who would be able to refuse to carry out the action of handing over data. And this should be the job of state agencies, actually. So something that is also exciting is this statement that in the Microsoft warrant case, there was a warning against US regulations having ramifications on other countries and of the effectiveness of international cooperation in criminal persecution. So they say that unilateralism will lead to conflicts between countries and will lead to corrupted cooperation and also to localization obligations. And this would fraction up the internet. So lastly, I would like to recommend some literature to you for those who are interested in further researching this topic. Borchardt, for example, and Jennifer Dasker with a de-territorial approach, and Martin Buse, which is a very large compendium of the evidence. You often see the postulation that there should be no restrictions on the internet. And if you think about these measures being implemented, what ramifications could it have? In many political discourses, you don't really talk about the criminal consequences and persecution consequences. And I think that I can make it clear that international cooperation in criminal persecution, there can be spaces for political activism between countries that have differing laws and legislation and where data cannot be handed over at the moment. And if even people who have been in the persecution system warn against this kind of legislation, that this can't be the right solution. So whether we are going to have this network of data being handed over from country to country or not is I cannot really say. But if you want effective criminal persecution, you would have to make better processes and proceedings and follow the decisions that have been taken in 2014 and 2017 and evaluate them and see where you can take further action. But you cannot just blanket introduce this kind of legislation. I think this is very problematic. So that's it from my side. If you like the work from my association, I would love for you to donate or become a member or join one of our events. Thank you very much. So now we have time left for some Q&A. We have three microphones in the room. So please get to the microphones. So I will ask the internet first. Are there questions from the internet? There are no questions from the internet, which is the first time. So the first question from Mike to you, please. Hello and thank you. Can you say something about judge provisions after this provision? So from the e-evidence draft, there are three versions, one from commission and one from parliament, which isn't really done yet, and from the draft Burger Zippel presented, which is the first guess of what the parliament might conclude with a said that it should be an independent organization, independent body, meaning that according to the... For Germany, they have to be judges because the prosecutors in Germany aren't independent. So the target state of the... Where the target state controls. From the draft, from the commission, there is something similarly, but only restricted, only for very similar and for very intimate data. For messaging data, for example, but just for metadata, this is not all. I would be interested if there is a conflict between the EU and this evidence provision. What could be a possible result? And how could that conflict be cleared? So the conflict we have at the moment, which is maybe what you're referring to, that's between the GDPR and the Klaudeck, is that what you mean? Yes, I mean that, and if that idea becomes into law and then it is not compatible with current law, what will happen then? Klaudeck, e-evident situation. So it's a moment for a provider, if I get a request from the S, there is like the larger pressure from the S, but I don't know if there has been such a case where companies violated GDPR regulations by giving data to the S, but I assume it's true, but I haven't heard from any German organizations getting active. If you want to sanction them, you have to take into account that the companies are in kind of a bad situation and didn't really want to violate law. The European law court don't really consider this at the moment. The e-evidence GDPR clash was a normal conflict. I can't really say that at the moment, because the conflict I refer to with the Klaudeck is about if you transfer data from the EU to another third country, and this is not included in the e-evidence at the moment. Okay, then this is unfortunately it for all the questions. You may address the speaker at the stage. And I would like to thank the speaker and warm applause for her.


President Reagan, I present to you the 14 White House fellows of the year 82-83 in the semicircle behind them. They're spouses and parents from all over the country to enjoy this wonderful occasion. Well, Admiral, I'm delighted to be here. I think, as you may know, 18 years ago, President Johnson launched the White House Fellowship Program, calling it a program for a select number of young people who have demonstrated high moral character, exceptional ability, marked leadership qualities, and unusual promise of future development. Now, much has changed in the intervening years, but the White House Fellowship Program has stood the test of time. The same standards prevail. I'm the fifth president to preside over this program, and like my predecessors, I value it highly as a vehicle for developing new leadership for the nation as a source of fresh talent for the executive branch and as a symbol of the kind of achievement we want to encourage and reward. I've been familiar with the White House Fellowship Program for many years. I met with several classes of fellows when I was a governor, and you're my third class as a president. In addition, some 20 former fellows have returned to work in our administration here, many of them in senior positions. An additional six are working with the private sector survey group that's devising ways to reduce waste and inefficiency in the federal government, and another 30 are serving as officers with our armed forces. So, as you can see, I'm already getting a return from my investment of the White House Fellows, and so is the country. If that thing doesn't go away, I want to pause for a moment to salute your chairman, though, Admiral Jim Stockdale, a genuine hero, a man of courage, steadfastness, patriotism, and compassion. Because you're so young, maybe I can invoke some memories. I well remember the day almost 10 years ago when he and his fellow prisoners of war landed on the Philippines and walked down the ramp from the plane. Many of them had endured terrible years of confinement, torture, and deprivation, and as the senior POW, Jim had suffered worse than most. But as they came down that ramp, each one of them saluted smartly, said they were proud to have had the honor to serve their country, and thanked us for bringing them home. When I saw them, I asked me, myself, where do we get such men? Where do we find them? And the question was answered almost as soon as it was asked. From the cities and the towns and the farms and the factories and shops and offices all over this great land, from where we've always gotten them when we needed them. You also come from a multitude of regions and professions and you bring talent, creativity, and enthusiasm that we badly need in the federal government. As you begin your fellowship year, I commend to you Jim Stockdale's example of character and service, because it exemplifies the qualities we expect in White House fellows. Much is asked of those to whom much is given. And a great opportunity is being given to you through this program and I hope you'll respond by resolving to devote part of your time this year and beyond to helping those less fortunate than yourselves. One logical place where the fellows can play an effective role is with our private sector initiatives task force headed by Bill Verity. He's just had a group of business leaders over in the White House that I just left talking about this. With your significant volunteer experience, you're well qualified to identify ways in which the government can foster workable voluntary activities in the private sector. To that end I'm requesting all cabinet departments and agencies that have White House fellows to use them where possible in their own private sector task force areas. I've also asked them to ensure that you're given duties and assignments that will challenge your talents to the fullest. The model with a fellowship program is with widest horizons. I hope your horizons are indeed widened this year and that your experience working at a higher level in the federal government gives you both a healthy skepticism about the limits of government and a new appreciation of the good that can result from sound government programs and policies. I hope your experience gives you a new respect for that marvelous system we call democracy. Frustrating sometimes, chaotic system, but with all its defects, it's still just the best form of government ever devised by man. And as you proceed with your fellowship year and then return to your local communities, I hope you'll continue to strengthen your sense of commitment to your community, to making your local government work, to helping those less fortunate than yourself, to preserving the great legacy of our beloved country. And I'm proud to have you as part of my administration. And as you embark on your fellowship year, I know that Nancy, who ever once know how watches these from up there on the third floor when we're down here, joins me in wishing you good luck and Godspeed. Welcome. And I'm going to step over to the side now and gracious. Douglas, come in. Mr. President, this one's for the kipper. Thank you very much. Happy Mendoza. Notre Dame. Daniel Oliver, Sharon Richie, William Roper, Adis Vila, Vine.


So, yeah, um, I'm just thinking about getting some filler, right? Oh Just okay. We're live. We're live. Are you live? Oh, wait, how natural? She said Hi everyone, thank you so much for joining my very first initial inaugural virgin life So glad you could be here today. I'm so excited to be doing this This has been a long time coming and I finally got the cahones to get together and do it and To hold my hand and do it with me is my very special guest and friend and many other things Mr. Dr. James Simmons I am doing very well. I am so glad that I'm I am your first like I'm the first of the First of many So so many and I love live. I love live so much because you never know like look at all these people coming in like Björk and jamare and wade and whatever like I love it I love interacting with people and I love being challenged with questions and just I really am actually super honored Would you ask me to do this? I'm glad to be here Yeah, same.  Um, we want your questions. We want your comments Please feel free. We'll get to as many questions as we can throughout but we're here to talk about hiv and we're here to talk about the experience of living with hiv and Pry into some of the concerns and questions that y'all have tada because People have lots of questions, right like people Yeah I've never I don't I never get to do this because I'm not live either. Where where are our where all are we live? Right where I'm my my youtube linkedin and twitter. I think for the first time ever Yeah, tell us where you're all hailing us from. I'm in los angeles You're you're in los angeles. Yeah, we want to see everyone and you're we're on one of your channels, right? Are we on your your instagram? I mean on youtube facebook linkedin twitch and twitter Wow, wow, okay, super fantastic. That is awesome. Hello Where are you? Where are you based? I don't even know I'm in LA. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what I thought Yeah, los angeles alabama richmond virginia. Yeah, boy um, hold on And the bamma this is fantastic. So I mean while we're we got some la folks here Glad everybody's shouting out. So just a little like context, I guess As we go in so I Am a hospitalist nurse practitioner So primarily what I do is work with like critical care patients in the hospital But I am also a clinical ambassador for the cdc's. Let's stop hiv together programs and have been for three years um And I do a lot of advocacy and activism work here in los angeles southern california around the world and whatever around Very much hiv prevention like prep. That's what my doctoral research was in but then also like u equals u so I like I'm running around You know standing on the soapbox of u equals u so a little bit of hiv primary care Sometimes so if you folks set saint lunatics in the house have Like hiv primary care very very specific questions Some of those I can answer some of those I can I will get back to you which I'm actually really good about Um, the other thing too just because you know, I have to say it y'all can ask me anything you want Honestly everything right did I tell you about this speaking engagement? I did on friday No, you did not and I got it was the what I got some of the best questions I have ever gotten at a live speaking engagement We talked about hiv. We talked about rio. We talked about whatever but I mean, I don't how crass can we be I mean we're on linkedin so I got Yes, we are on linkedin the linkedin folk are a little more buttoned up But you know some f bombs here and there are okay in my book. Well at the top. I mean there was a Let's just say there was some really really intense juicy quest sexual questions about like things being inserted with Drugs and other things inside of people and like what happens or whatever like that's great And I I just want y'all to know like tuning in like that is my So please do not be afraid that you want to Talk about and we will talk about it if I don't know I will tell you I don't know We will look it up and we will find the answer for you because this may be ready drum roll the first of a series of lives that Right for Ozzie and I are doing together for sure. Yeah, I would love to do that Um, so let me ask you a top of the line High-level bird's eye view question to start Sure. What is your current assessment of the global hiv epidemic? hmm such like a You're so serious. You had your like um your reporter Uh question voice on there, right? If you were like dr. Simmons. Tell us your current assessment of the It's a question that I'm going to be routinely asking everybody that I interview So that I can get it like a broad spectrum idea of everyone's perspective Yeah, um, you know, I think it is I think we do have to sort of separate what happens in countries with great healthcare access Predominantly to preventative care and then treatment so places like canada the you know, most of western europe Japan united states etc Some countries in south america. It's fairly easy Asterix I know not for everyone, but it's fairly easy to get your hands on treatment And fairly easy to get your hands on prep. And so This whole we're going to end hiv by 2030 um with u equals u and with uh treatment as prevention and prep as prevention It's an ostentatious goal, but possible in those parts of the world. I think I think we will be having a very fundamentally different conversation about hiv 5 to 10 years from now Um, kind of like we are now having a fundamentally different conversation about hiv than what we had five to 10 years ago um, that being said if you you know racism and Capitalism and imperialism and colonialism and all of those other isms have left many places like A lot of countries in africa a lot of countries in southeast asia behind when it comes to hiv hair in particular and then prevention so prep is much more readily available than it used to be even in the last kind of The tail end of the pandemic and some of these particularly african countries and then southeast asian countries. So that's helping a lot um, but we are still unfortunately saying Really high rates of transmission that are probably unnecessary and really high rates of Of opportunistic infections and illness and things like that In places that don't have access to the resources. So My my general push is sometimes people really ask me like what why are why are we doing so much? Why are you so much about hiv all the time and talking about hiv and aids and a lot of it is because we This I feel like why are you so obsessed? Why are you so obsessed with hiv? I feel like we are at this I don't know if there's sports people here or whatever, but like we're starting the fourth quarter We are At the 20 yard line marching towards our end zone, right? We are I used to run track like it's the last 50 meters like all of these things Where it's really really hard right mile 18 to 20 of a marathon for people who've done marathons Like it's we're in a really really hard part It's sticky. It's weird. It's gross. It's not getting a ton of headlines, but we're so close to what could be like solutions and Really drastically cutting the numbers And so now is the time we got to push even harder. I think So so from what I gather what you're saying, excuse me if I'm putting words in your mouth but it seems like you you feel that In 2030 with this initiative We could potentially Realistically end the epidemic but that but that it would be limited geographically because of differences in availability of of health care Basically in different countries. Um, yeah, I think that's the is that a privilege thing totally a privilege thing totally a a You know primarily capitalistic health care environment things primarily, uh, you know This is really I don't know if there's any drug companies on watching whatever but like They're really difficult push pull relationship We have with the gileads of the world who are fantastic and amazing and do all these wonderful things and spend a Lot of money and created these medications and are absolutely changing people's lives and and like some of the sole reasons Them and the research are some of the sole reasons why people are like living forever with hiv You know, we everyone runs around it's not a dust sentence anymore all that that's great also like they are beholden to their shareholders and That requires them to turn massive profits And so it is not profitable to just like give entire subcontinent of south of Sub-Saharan Africa You know a tripla like it just is not That's not profitable So, I mean if you really I know I just like went right there, but if you really want to get into it Yeah, that's part of it. We like to couch it. We like to sort of respectability pop politics it in In oh access and all of these things but when it comes down to it like healthcare I'm in and I'm in healthcare right healthcare is a business And people have to make money uh with the business and unless it was like a super nationalized sort of thing or globalized healthcare like Um You know well And that's something that I hear maybe I don't really hear like people living in different areas of the world saying We don't have any medication here available, but I will hear Oh, we don't have the latest and greatest drug that You know that I'm maybe talking about on youtube or something like that We have this generic and we have something that's similar But is it on the same level as the new drugs? We don't know but this is all that our government Can or is willing to Pay for or bring into the country so That's and that just so the kind of the people watching know there's generally with medications. There's a seven year patent Generally speaking at seven years sometimes the patent can be extended. It can be appealed There can be all different kinds of things that can go on with patents, but more or less you you have a patent for seven years and Once that seven years it's called the cliff once that patent goes that patent for a drug goes off the cliff after seven years It means that other drug companies can start Replicating that medication and then charging whatever they want for it. So that's generally when we find generics So part of the reason that a lot of places are not up to date on medications Or they're about seven or eight years behind Is because after seven years the drug companies have I'm really oversimplifying But after seven years or so the drug companies have essentially made what they're going to make on this medication By charging what they can charge everyone else can now make it cheap. So people go off and make generics So then it is a cost effective for them to offer it to everybody at that point. Yeah, yep Okay, so I do we do have a couple questions. Yeah, so let me put the first one up on the screen here I love that you I'm glad that you have to drive. I'm not a good driver This is this is a lot. It's a lot But I'm meddling through okay, borg has a question Can a co-infection with hepatitis a block the detection of hiv from fourth generation tests? And also rna pcr test over two-year needle assault. I don't know what the quarter of that means, but I hope you do Um, I don't know what Test over two-year needle assault so maybe the the potential the first Injury or the first exposure was with a needle two years prior. Am I interpreting that the correct way? Let us know in chat. I'm watching Yeah, we're looking. Okay, so I'll repeat it. Can a co-infection with hepatitis a block the detection of hiv from fourth generation tests? No um very separate We do see a fair amount of co-infection of the hepatitis is And newly diagnosed hiv Yes, often in populations of people who use needles for recreational drugs or otherwise Yes from two years ago. So No we're testing For something fundamentally different But I understand why you might have this question because we often will see Both together. So we will see a new hepatitis particularly a or b hepatitis infection and hiv Often we will see it with other sti sometimes with syphilis. Um, and then A lot of times especially in populations of people who use needles for recreational drugs or otherwise Sometimes we'll also see other things a sepsis a Immersa from the needle that is causing a pneumonia or some sort of skin infection, right? Like we'll see those these kind of opportunistic ones pop up But having a co brand new diagnosis of hepatitis a and a co brand new diagnosis of hiv together It won't block the test we can detect both Great on on that Same vein it that's often a concern that I hear from people is Is there a habit? Is there an action? Is there something that I might be consuming in my nutrition and my diet? Is there anything I'm doing that could lead to a false negative hiv test is in general? Is that an issue? um, and if is are there certain things that People should be cognizant of or aware of that might um So there are So the the easiest answer for this is no in terms of the things you're consuming over the counter or Or supplements things like that. Are they going to give you a necessarily a false negative? However, you can Ask for the most recent generation of tests. You can also ask for people are really familiar with like antibodies versus antigen Now because of cove it right so you can ask whoever's giving you the test Is this testing for like a p24 antigen and hiv antibodies? Is this a rapid test? Are you confirming with the pcr you can ask all of those questions? um If it's something that you're worried about so But generally speaking even the like third generation antibody tests are really good um Again, there's a window right so depending on which test you're looking at those generation tests generally couldn't two weeks was Rare that we would be able to detect but we're more looking at like four to six weeks Okay after exposure Now if you're looking at tests that are looking at antibodies antigens, you know, it's a pcr confirmation test that window of exposure can be smaller but A lot of times people will will say oh gosh. I had I think I had an exposure in the last five days Let me get my hiv test. Okay. It's negative few eh Get on pep regardless Get on that pep Get on that pep regardless and we're gonna need you to come back and test it a little while At least a couple of weeks probably more like six weeks to confirm Um, so it's a legitimate question for sure and you can just ask right I do not know what in all the years. I've been doing this. I do not know one person who is helping folks Test for hiv who is ever going to be mad at you For being like which test is this again? Is this like the pcr or the other one? Right, you don't have to know the names of the test just ask them like girl Which test is this can you do the one that's the pcr and antigen like can you give me both because I'm like super worried Just ask they'll be like. Oh, yeah, sure You know it's the same blood or the same mouse swab or whatever right so don't don't hesitate to ask In most places anyway Some some places it's I know that it's a difficult request Okay, um, oh, we got some more here. Let's see next up put it on the screen If that is a difficult request by the way, I want you to go to cdc.gov slash hiv and Have a test mailed to you or do their test locator I'm just thinking of people in other parts of the world Yes, that's true. I forget we right if you have such a global audience. Yes I'm I'm I'm quite us, uh, you know centric at this point Okay medicine There are many of them, but we need more doctors To have knowledge to treat patients with hiv conditions. We need more doctors Ain't that right sister True that not to put a gender on you and just calling everybody sister these days We sure do and I think one of the one of the biggest issues is that there are so many primary care providers Either in the hospital or in the clinic setting who just have zero hiv education And that's actually part of what not that i'm here to like just like super carry the fly for the cdc all the time But that is part of what the cdc is trying to do with their clinical ambassador program of which i'm a part of Like me Try to help educate other clinicians about like just ask the damn question like Hey, are you sexually active? Do you use needles in your drug use when was the last time you had had a hiv test? Okay, let's just check for hiv. Are you okay? Are you on prop? No, let's talk about see if it's right for you, right? um, and if you're doctor, um Demetriakis In new york really did this um The best starting you god it was eight ten years ago almost at this point There's status neutral Care so if you've not heard that status neutral means we talk to everyone about hiv Just like we're going to talk to everyone about like blood pressure The mole on your feet, right? Everyone that we always have a conversation with folks about everything We're also having a conversation with you about hiv regardless of your status If you're hiv positive We get you into care and we we have a conversation about it We start john meds. We do other tests. We keep it pushing if you're hiv negative great We talk about prep. We see if it's right for you if it is we get you on prep If you don't want to do prep we talk about your other options. We keep it pushing But everybody gets an hiv conversation. And so I think you're right even outside of getting more hiv prevention and care specialists it's about Educating the folks who are already in place to do just a little bit better job at their hiv care Yeah, because especially with hiv. It's not just Having a conversation about hiv. There's a whole continuum to the care and there's a way that you have to address patients or humans living with hiv recently diagnosed or or just going in for testing That's different than a lot of other things because of stigma because of so much surrounding the virus Knowing how to talk to people about it without making them feel judged or criticized look down upon It's so easy for health care professionals to do that Because of a bias because they're not trained otherwise Very very much so unfortunately that bias. I mean we we've learned so much about the biases in health care related to gender even the biases that that like cis gender women face Just starting there and then going on through all of us folks of color and all those queer folks and all gender fluid folks and sexually fluid folks and all that stuff right all those biases and then you add other sort of disease processes on that and this is no shade to physicians medical doctors But a lot of the compassion of talking to people like a human being Isn't taught as well in medical school as it is in nursing school So sometimes you will get people like me who are nurse practitioners Primary care providers. We have a doctorate or not, but sometimes people just like having conversations with us a little bit better Just because our core is as a nurse and our core is the whole person Now this is not all physicians, of course I'm not speaking and not all nurse practitioners either some nurse practitioners aren't great But like in general a lot of people are like, hey, I love my nurse practitioner because I feel like I can talk to them Like a human being and not be feel as judged Yeah, and to make a good example of a doctor who Handled it very well. I still remember to this day early on when I was diagnosed I was I met with a doctor and at some point he Consciously removed his glove and touched my hand and spoke to me and and that was very like it meant I was like wow like it was shocking in a way It seems like such a small gesture, but it was like in that moment. I knew he's not afraid of me Or afraid of getting hiv from me. So things like that did you Were you ever able to share with them how powerful that moment was for you? No, and I don't even remember what doctor That's all right, right? Did they say right you don't have to remember their name or whatever But you you will always remember how they made you feel. Yeah, it wasn't like a primary care I forget what situation it was But I I I'm so glad that you shared that and I hope that many others get the opportunity to have that That type of connection with their with their health care provider and my most recent Sorry, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say most people's Most people's experience with their health care providers is shitty. It's horrible Yeah, I was just gonna just oppose that with a recent Because I had to find a new doctor that and I'm not going to this doctor specifically And part of and a huge part of the reason for that is when I went in my first visit Um He was he kept his distance from me the whole time and that at the very end he did the elbow and this is like This is like post Lockdowns post covid's everywhere and I'm like bro Like how hard is it for you to just shake like I just met you you can shake my hand And you can literally walk out of this room and you can sanitize and and go about your day like That elbow Just even a even a fist bump Hey, this is how we're gonna sign off Let me leave. Okay. Good chat. Good connecting with all of you guys. Right. Thanks. Glad everyone Yeah, glad we hope you had a human connection here.  Are you kidding me? Um, I'm sorry rife. I'm sorry that That that happened to you and I let please let me use this opportunity for a by watching If you don't like your healthcare provider Whatever they are providing with you If you are in a place not the elbow If you are in a place where you can change like if you have the privilege of that Switch it up on them. There are plenty of us I love what I do and I think I'm great But my sense of humor and my approach is not always appreciated by everyone right sometimes people are they want the boring Whatever very medical very stodgy whatever like this is how I am with my patients, by the way And most of my patients really appreciate it But sometimes they want no they want someone to come in and just like read the textbook to them. Cool I'm probably not your dude. So fire me and find somebody else. I promise you there's somebody else who would love to take care of you I love being an advocate But I you got to be your own advocate too on some level You don't you don't need to go on youtube's and you don't need to go in the socials and the interwebs and spread your Everything to the world like I do But when it comes to key things like getting a good doctor that you can connect with and feel vulnerable with and feel safe with You got to speak up for yourself Yes, okay We have a question Oh, does it not show the whole thing? Oh, it doesn't that's weird I would do that I can see it on the side. Can you see it there? Do practitioners at any poo? Hi guys, I work with geriatrics who could have been exposed to HIV at any time in their lives as they get older And I love talking about HIV and aging by the way They may show symptoms of opportunistic infections due to weakened immune systems and other chronic conditions Do Practitioners at any point or at what point would they recommend testing? Do they feel it's worth looking into? Yes always Oh my gosh Uh, I I think so many of us Um, Aisha Rogers, thank you for that a fantastic question. And I don't I don't On this little restream A rife and I are learning you're coming through at us through linkedin. I don't see your credentials there So if you are dr. Rogers my apologies, um, but thank you for the fantastic question. So Can you before you before you go into it? Can you rephrase that? Um As if i'm a five-year-old just so that I can understand and so some other people can understand what is being asked Yeah, I mean bottom line is how quickly do we jump to hiv testing? So in someone who is older And they have an infection That might be what we think of as an opportunistic infection when someone has HIV or it has progressed to AIDS, right? So their T cells are super low less than 250 all of that stuff She's an lpn. I don't know what that is lpn. Excellent a licensed Practical nurse very good. Thank you, Aisha So what we generally do is I think a lot of times when we were in school when we were younger It was like this big deal, right? A lot of states required you we had to consent For an hiv test and then they would put you in a registry And there was like a really big deal around testing even in the hospitals And so it was like this whole big consensable process like big big hairy elephant in the room to Get an hiv test for someone and it was like a big deal Now it is much less of a deal and partially because of that We would We we go to hiv testing really fairly early Now that being said in geriatric and I work a lot with geriatrics. So in elderly populations Lots of infections happen Because there's lots of weakening of the immune system for a multitude of reasons not just age But generally speaking older people have we call them comorbidities lots of health care stuff going on that could weaken their immune system Opportunistic infections Are somewhat specific So like there's a specific type of pneumonia. There's specific type of fungal infections There's specific types of things that we see That wouldn't normally happen in someone Even if they're a little bit older and even if their immune system is a little bit weak But then if we see like a pneumocystis, uh, you know a p pjp pneumonia Wow, that's really rare We usually only see that with people who have advanced hiv or AIDS Oh We better we better check for that, right? So I think hiv tests I issue to your question probably happened a lot more frequently than you might realize um In people who have what kind of I hate this word, but we kind of look like weird infections like oh This person's got kind of a weird infection. We're not sure what's going on Some things causing their immune system to not work super great. Maybe it's hiv. We should test for it Mm-hmm that kind of reminds me of when I went into the doctor initially and I I was in a relationship. I had For three and a half years at that point Duke are you whining? Oh, I can't hear well. Do you have pictures? Can we see dog whining at the door? Um, I'll try to put something up But when I I ended up going to the hospital and it was just like a blanket I don't know what's going on with me. My throat's hurting like crazy I thought that I had strep. I took an antibiotics. It went away for two weeks and then it was back And so I was like I got I got to see somebody and that was that they would looked and they're like Immediately they thought like maybe I have like an std or something like in my throat from Throw stds the way that happens and And then and then they went from there and just immediately gave me a whole Array of tests.  They got a little better and then as soon as the antibiotic finished they got worse Sometimes that makes us go. Huh. Why is this person? Why did this antibiotic not work? Now normally it was the wrong antibiotic for the wrong infection or we didn't give it long enough for Right The patient didn't finish their antibiotic Properly Properly didn't take all of it But sometimes when someone who is maybe otherwise young and healthy or it's one of these sort of weird or looking opportunistic infections We're like, huh, we better check like you like your providers did for you, right? Like let's throw the kitchen sink. Let's just like test for everything And hiv is usually included in that. Yeah great Um, okay, I have another question here. I'm gonna pull up What's the best way to get involved in hiv? I did research in undergrad, but I'm wanting to do more to gain more experience. What a lovely question I really as someone living with hiv. I really appreciate whenever I hear things like that Yeah, well, I mean rife. What do you what do you think from your standpoint? With all of the I mean, we both we both are so active in the community But kind of a little bit in different ways. What um, what would you say to someone to this your answer to this question? I would say to start local And go for your local lgbtq center um hiv Organizations that are local. There's usually local organizations and there might be like a national Organization that has a local branch if you will That would that would be my And you can use that. What's that you you should know this? I'm gonna put you on the spot. What is that? I got google I got my keyboard right resource locator Website where you can go you literally just put in wherever you are in the u.s And it will tell you all the the pharmacies all the testing centers everything in your area cdc.gov slash hiv That's how they go i'm gonna do a commercial cdc.gov slash hiv or you can always google hiv testing locator Um, if you're looking for it or cdc hiv testing locator um I 100% agree with you right if that was going to be my first response Go local meaning pull up the the you googles and hiv organizations near me right and see What help they need the In terms of In most sort of philanthropic endeavors so either it's breast cancer or marches colorectal cancer awareness month Probably need to post that video tomorrow before the end of the month right colorectal cancer or cancer awareness all these things The bigger the organization usually the more corporate dollars they have and the more resources they have So these big national ones they need help too But they usually have a lot more resources and then as the organizations get more local and a little bit smaller They usually need more help A lot of these organizations At a local grassroots level Do that really heartwarming yummy amazing wonderful work that like you think that you're doing right like Like you're sitting down and you're having a comma kind of like my my speaking engagement on friday I think the organizers were hoping for a larger turnout But there were maybe about 25 people there and I thought that those 25 people were so and get like we it was the Best conversation we were super engaged Everyone was very there there were tons of questions. We ran out of time like it was fantastic I would much rather have 400 conversations with 25 people who are really engaged and want to be there and learning And i'm learning from them and all of that Then feel like I have to do everything on such a grand scale So that's why I say like local your local organizations probably really need your help. They probably have a great They probably already have ideas as to where they can plug you in Exactly your undergrad was in like graphic design They're like, okay design this fire for us really quick and then oh by the way You're gonna come volunteer at this event for the fire that this design in our chunky angel fire website from 1992 You remember those not Not angel fire. There's nothing angelic or fire about it. No She said it is not fire. What so ever I'm not being said if there is an organization that really speaks to you Uh, I I promise you they are never above an email or a phone call or a dm from Wanting to get involved so like, you know Color of change. I think is a really they're not an hiv specific organization they do more grassroots root a root around white supremacy and and anti blackness but Color of change is an organization that has a big big footprint but does some really really dope local stuff and I know that they have had really it's like celebrity involvement from celebrities who just literally dm them And they were like, yep, come on in same things with people who are non-celebrities. So yeah, just just dip in for sure Oh, hey, I want to call out zandra is my alter ego patricia Patricia is a good friend of mine. She's someone that I work with through the Hope Collaboratory um, it's Funded by the NIH and we work in conjunction with scientists and researchers who are working towards an hiv cure and And they're they're actively working to bridge community with Science and research She is our community engagement. Um coordinator. So patricia. Thank you for joining. She has a question for us. So let me put that up If you could change one thing in the way is research clinical trials are run, what would it be a good question? I don't necessarily have something for the way they run because I'm not really familiar with clinical trials to be honest But I do know that it is a challenge And it is a difficulty ongoing in finding and having proper representation and diversity in clinical trials and so onboarding those people to not just finding them but To establish trust with community Um, I think that's a huge hurdle and we we saw that with the pandemic to the amount of distrust of health care And anything related to the government Rooted in Reason Right rooted in real shit Real shit rooted in you have every reason to destruct the government and and big pharma and science big science Yeah That's part of the reason I sort of hesitated with this. I wasn't hesitating. I was more trying to be give a really thoughtful answer So same thing. I'm not running around like Doing tons of clinical trials or anything. Um But my familiarity with them is a little bit better than the average bear. Um So that being said, I same thing, right? Um I think we're moving in the right direction with this, but it sort of sometimes feels like let's design a A research study. Let's answer a question. Let's have a hypothesis. Let's answer a question And then it's an By the way, we should probably include some diverse folks in this So that almost more so that we can make our numbers more generalizable, right? Um to a to a to a mass population rather than What I think, um You know, you see a lay I have to tout them a little bit because that's where I got my doctor at full disclosure, but Right, sorry. Oh, there we go. See we're both friends. So the I think what the work the hiv research Work that ucla has has led Has been very queer and black focused From the beginning And they've sort of required when they're partnering with drug companies and others who are funding some of this research that that Those initiatives start they've started from the right place. They've started from the place of You know in the united states primary You know incidences of hiv are among 18 to 35 year old Black men who have sex with men in the southeast part of the united states So we're starting from there and building our trials around what the community needs By involving the community But that feels so novel and so fresh and so like And it shouldn't be right that it should sort of be the other way around rather than like Taking this novel approach And so I think there are institutions like ucla. I think hopkins is getting a little bit better about that I think some of the other big hiv researchers even uab Are starting to get a little bit better about Not it not being an afterthought about including The the right populations and actually being having their clinical trial designs being driven by the data and the data telling us Where the populations need the research in that makes sense exactly.  Um, I we are over our 30 minute That we want to do How do we do everybody on our first live? This is let us know what you thought um, we want to keep doing these and I'm open to one more question if anybody has a last burning question. Otherwise, we'll wrap it up for today um Yeah, I think this was really good. We touched on a lot. We touched on a lot of topics And it will happen organically and Thank you everyone for all the amazing questions. This will live on my I don't know if it I don't think linkedin stores it or anywhere else, but for sure on youtube It'll be up there and you connected your youtube as well, right? I did my youtube linkedin and uh, twitter Oh Where can people go if they want to follow you and or your work? Oh, thank you. I everywhere on all social platforms at ask the word Ask the np on tiktok. It's ask the np underscore Oh, what I just realized I can um chat in the Ask and at Did you see there's an oh, there's an underscore on tiktok Just on tiktok at the end, but everywhere it's ask the np Wait, and I don't know how do I chat on the big board too? Can I or is it just you as the Oh, you as the host out there, but I can't oh, but facebook and linkedin linked it I can't for some reason. Okay. I gotta figure that out. Anyway, that's yeah, that's that so follow Dr. James Simmons. He has a lot of great content. He's always putting out um informative videos that I love watching that are cute and funny and educational which is you know, that's the holy trinity of Cute fun and educational that that's gonna be like my new tag line If you're watching it's after the live put those questions comments down On youtube in in the comments below I'll keep it for next time and we'll be back here. We can you want to do this again next week next thursday Um, yeah, can't let me make sure I'm putting you on the spot I look it looks like I can let's do it Okay, great. I'll put it my name thing as well. All right. Thanks everyone. Thank you for joining and we'll we'll see you soon ciao


Thank you. I'm Brandon. That's Gary. I'm Noel Patrick. I'm already getting heckled from the answer, the brilliant audience. Do you want us to use the microphone, Kim? Sorry? Once again, Gary's from the Open University. I've had MIT, been working in the Open Education for quite a while. It's a pleasure to actually be here, actually organizing the conference, as Seth will attest to in the back also. We're going to talk today about a project that's been funded by the Next Generation Learning Challenges at our major cause, primarily the Funding for the William and Florian Hewlett Foundation and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The Next Generation Learning Challenges is a grant program that's built around thinking a little bit differently and trying to bring to action some of the things that have been going on in open education, primarily around content and moving from content into courses and practice and to delivering actual classes with actual students meeting actual needs. And we'll talk a little bit about the approach we're taking with this project that's built a lot on the Open University models and give you a series of areas in which we think some of the things that we're doing are a little bit different than traditional approaches, certainly the approaches that the rest of my organization has taken with open education. And lead into a set of broader issues for the open education community. And we can talk about how the projects we're working on, start to address some of them, pass some of the other projects that are in the room. The person who's been giving me a hard time from the back, Kim Thottos, is also doing a project, leading a project funded by the same grant program, focused also on developmental math, and nine or 10 or 11 other areas. So Bridge to Success, this is a screenshot of our website. It's b2s.acc.edu. We actually have some handouts and flyers and collateral to if you're interested. One of the questions I was supposed to ask is, is anybody here from a community college are interested in using this from a community college? Great. Here he's going to want to talk to you. Actually, he's going to want to push with content for us and folks to see if we're interested in adopting some of the materials. There are two courses that we've brought up online. Reportions of two courses that are built around materials that have existed and worked well within the open university setting in the United Kingdom. And we're bringing those to different audience and all sorts of issues arise around that. And those are the kinds of things we'll be talking about. One of them is called Succeed with Math. This one's partially launched. The full launch will be in January of this year. It's basically a developmental math course. But it's not a developmental math course the way I've seen some of the other ones that have been taught here within the United States. My good friend, Tom, in the other rooms, talking about his launch are 42 open courses. Looking at some of the materials that they've developed versus the kinds of things that have worked very well in the open universities experience, it's a pretty big gap. So you start with a developmental math, perhaps with basically equations of odd equations and lots of practice. And that's kind of been one of the approaches that's been taken. But what Gary will talk about with the university approaches is it's a much softer introduction and it's a lot more supportive. And that's one of the things that attracted the consortium of folks working on this project to this. So it's the Open University, Anne Arundel Community College, and the University of Maryland University College. Folks that have been doing online and distance education for a very long time. And they've got lots of experience with it, but they know that they can improve. And some of the things that the Open University has done, the approaches they've taken, are very different than what we do here in the United States. One of those is based around learning to learn. It's an openings course, is the phrase, at the Open University. It's a general introduction to the transition between, say, high school and college, between the workforce coming back and starting to take college courses. And we have an educator here, Shelly Hintz, who's been working using these courses with actual students. And if all works well, she'll say a couple of things. Trying to learn a course can really just kind of go over to the different skills that they need to be successful in a college-over-class. It goes over, there's modules on reading techniques, study skills, time management. All of those issues are issues that they're going to be dealing with once they're inside the classroom. And so I think just going through those materials and becoming more confident in being a learner and understanding their own learning needs. And as they can understand their own learning needs. So she talks a little bit about the motivation of what's different. And if you take MIT out of the equation but look at some of the other universities where it worked, Utah State or UC Berkeley, we don't do those things ever in our classes. There's some bridge programs to transition between high school and college, but that's it. It's over after that. It's not something that's kind of an ongoing thing. But that's one of the things that's different about the Open University approach to the support and the tutor system that they use. And so I had to do this with Gary was kind enough to let me do the Americanism of mining the gap. And what we're doing is a lot of different gaps with the project, which are very representative of a lot of the issues facing people. Trying to take open content and use them as courses. Content is sure developed by others. How do you wrap actual course experiences around them? So at the Open University, UMUC, AACC, they teach classes online, but they don't necessarily do things open. And so where does that gap come? And how do you bridge across it? Also, research and practice. We know lots of things about educational research and educational theory. How do we take what's worked in one setting and then transfer it to another setting? Differences between the UK and the US and theory's got a couple of great examples around this. And then also the Open University approach versus the American Community College approach. There's some similarities in the types of students, but as Gary will explain, there are lots of things that are different than we've had to work through and work around. And finally, the issue of development on math and bridging between high school and college with preparation levels between being out in the workforce coming back and starting a degree program as a pretty complete degree program. And now I'm going to try to do everything. So that's me. So I think really from our point of view and from your point of view, it's about kind of giving you the experience that we're having to go through as we deliver this course or make this transition from using our OER material and delivering it in different contexts. So with that in mind, I think there's something pretty unique about the way in which the Open University goes about developing these courses. The way in which we have a group of academics that come together and we send all of that in relation to the student experience. So there's a whole heart and a charm. Well, it's quite interesting actually. I was going to say for you, but it's quite interesting. But there's a whole quality assurance and quality enhancement function that actually is built into that process that we go through when we build a course. And with that taken into account, the whole ethos around the way in which our courses are delivered into students, particularly these opening students as we call them in the UK, it's much softer. It's a much gentler kind of start. They won't see a math equation for a good few weeks. It'll be talking about the experience of being a student and what it's like to use math in everyday life and so on and so forth. So we won't confront them immediately with a test. Because they already have an anxiety about math. So we're going to give you a test and we're going to heighten that anxiety. So it's a completely different kind of process that we go through a different kind of study experience that the Open University students would have. And alongside that, there's a whole set of scaffolding that kind of goes along that supportive scaffolding. But it's there for the students in terms of the way the tuition function and the way in which we, you know, the forums, the student forums, so on and so forth. So in those aspects, but particularly, I think, attractive to the community college environment. So I think that kind of leads us nicely on to the courses. So in a sense, we've delivered the course yet. We've delivered the courses. And, you know, we've had to go through that process, which is a process which I think is of interest, of, you know, how do we make that material, our material, contextually kind of right for your students and, you know, some of it's dealing with some language kind of issues and so on. So that process cuts across all different aspects of the delivery, I guess, the production of the OER material. So we've had to find some academic faculty members to take part in that process with us, for us. And, you know, there's different kind of viewpoints, depending on the individual we've asked, depending on the community college that they're working on in as to how they go around making those changes or feel they need to make those changes. So there's a whole learning experience that everybody has been involved in this project taking some OER material and delivering it into, you know, a different context. Taking it ostensibly complete, complete courses. Yeah, and moving them, so these courses were paper-based courses. So we're moving into an online environment as well. So, you know, with that in the sense, it's the same thing, it's the same thing, but, you know, some community colleges are choosing to slice that material up to deliver it in a piecemeal kind of way to their students and not give it to them as a whole thing. And I think that's true of AACC. Now, other community colleges are mixing it, mixing it with other courses that they're doing. They're already doing math anxiety courses, so they're using this to kind of supplement, to bulk out the kind of material, to provide a different kind of, you know, experience for the students. So, and that, in a sense, kind of leads us into that lovely piece of British title, oh, British title. But what that means is that there are so many aspects associated with the way in which we're having to change this material, interact, and we're wanting to learn all these experiences. So the research, because this is a funded research project that's actually delivering things into students, so what we're trying to do here is that because of the way in which the community colleges are using the material, you know, we've had to adapt the way in which we're undertaking the research to capture the experience of that student or that faculty member in going through this process so that we can take all that back, put it into something I haven't mentioned anything about all that, which is another kind of project and the evidence of where we're gonna be putting all this evidence back in about the way in which we're going through this reversioning kind of process. So there's all sorts of aspects where things are cutting across, lining up in terms of where we're going to consider. One of the greatest challenges we've had with the project is actually the way in which the Open University actually produces it, so making, putting the material through the, through I call it the OU sausage meal, really, into much that we're taking it from print, putting it into something called lab space, the technical kind of difficulties we have into doing that, and we're wanting to share those or give those skills to the community colleges and we found some difficulties with that because we've been hamstrung by the way in which the Open University has its systems and the way in which it does it, so it doesn't lend itself readily for other people to go in there and make those changes themselves or take the material and actually do it themselves. We've had to do quite a bit of that reversioning for them, but we are dealing with those barriers, those gaps in that kind of sense, and we are delivering that training in so these community colleges can take material and can make the changes themselves. I think we're switching back over to you in relation to the evidence, but all of that research that we're doing, capturing through this whole process, the process of managing the project, the process of reversioning the academic faculty, as I said, their thoughts and the way in which they are having to be asked to be using this material in different ways and different contexts to have some practice they feel comfortable with, the actual people producing the material, everybody is taking part in this kind of research so we can put it into something with the evidence of it. I don't know how many people know anything about it. Anybody heard of the evidence stuff? Know what it is? Most people in this room have a card about the evidence in their possession. Would you like to say a little bit more about their part? I don't know. I don't see science fair at all. And a science fair at all. I'm concerned about that. I don't know what we're talking about. Now if you're interested to know more about the evidence, talk to more of the science fair from three to four thirty, we will be having some not only a demo but also a hands-on session so that you can understand. There's many a website where you can go and share your knowledge about OER, knowledge in terms of challenges, flames, but also projects, resources available and specific interests. I think I'm tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was much better than I could have done. It looks like we've designed this so you can't read it either. So the evidence has been collected. This evidence covers the effect of this and many issues with respect to medication, which you can't really read on the screen are some highlighted issues, the ones that the project's been focusing on and looking at. And you already did a very lovely job, a very lovely color. Of highlighting the issues and the things that we were working on, the way we started to approach this presentation was let's tell you a little bit about what we're doing. But let's also just talk about some of the issues involved with taking existing courses and taking existing content and trying to teach courses around them. We're looking at localizing. So you would think it might be easy that maybe all we have to do is switch some of the spellings around, switch some of the duties around from pounds to dollars. But as Gary's shaking his head, it's been a lot more challenging than that. And at this point, we were just going to open things up for questions from the audience and find out what are the things that we can answer from our experiences that address some of the questions you have with taking material developed by others, localizing it, but using it and looking at other ways and providing support around it. Gary and I can talk about some of the support resources that are in place, some of the things that the community colleges have already done and then are doing now. So we'll go and just open it up for questions. So I'm Margaret Corsek from Western Governors University and we use Babylonian math from the opening, yeah. And so I would say that it can work if it's not translated, let's say, if it's not the primary resource. If it's a supplementary resource that supports other resources, then you know what, you get over it. I mean, then you're not testing to what's in that content necessarily. It's just a good support, you know, to build in our model the confidence for our students. Yeah, and that's something we've experienced. So we've got a particular faculty member at AACC who thinks that material needs reworking quite a lot and we're happy to kind of let them get on with that because from our point of view, that's something they want to kind of evaluate. And then we've got another person from UMUC, I mean, yes. And she's just in the same, I'm happy with it as it is. I can work around with, you know, talking about a trip from London to Liverpool or whatever kind of English kind of bits that are in there. I can deal with that in the way in which I'm thinking that forward. So, you know, and that's another, so we've got different kind of evaluation groups for those individuals. But how do you work that if, let's say the one example where they do modify the content to be more Americanized? Whatever. But is that, I mean, is that then open for others as well then and how does that work with your model? So the way in which we're going through this reversing process, you know, it's actually been sliced off in terms of its reversing. People have kind of backed kind of bits and said, oh, this bit, you know, I really like this bit kind of fits with our community college. So I'll reverse in this bit. Thank you very much. Okay, well, I'll do this bit and I'll be left with it. So it's actually this differing kind of activities going on as we push this material out to the community colleges. But then, you know, once it's finished, you know, it's there. It's there for you to be used today. You know, we've got 33 community colleges kind of signed up and wanted to use it. It's there in lab space. And if you wanted to, if you could get your head around the technical difficulties, you could go into lab space and you're on the cool side of that as well as. So as part of that, we're building a lot of the infrastructure that the Open University has already provided to the world at large, that they use internally and they provided the world at large in lab space where you can make a copy of a course, use it to deliver the course, you can make modifications to it. And as Gears mentioned, there's some technical issues. We're still trying to work around moving from the Open University, it's a very nice production process. The Sausage Factory is very efficient. It's a very nice room, enormous room, with lots of people working on developing current content and assessments and do feedback loops of testing with students and understanding where things are working when things aren't working. That's a process the Open University's been using for 40 years now. But that's a process that's been foreign to most faculty at most universities and colleges in the United States. But so it's part of the experiment then of what happens when we make that available. And some of the examples Gears has been giving, some of the redesign that's gone on sort of to the base course have been by some faculty that have a very particular way of teaching that. And they're taking all of this material and then the reworking that started to make it their own maturity. Sort of, you'd probably say a little too far that it then becomes that much harder for somebody else to take and do that. But that's one of the lessons. Sort of, it's a known lesson, but it's important for everybody involved because what we're doing is faculty development, classroom development, faculty development. In the back. So you talked about the curriculum development and assessment, student assessment in the Sausage Factory. Yep. Tell us a little bit more about what you measured in the UK and how that's come into the feedback. Yeah, so I mean, we have a whole quality assurance kind of loop that we, so. What are the benefits of that, so? Because I'm trying to compare them to what we have here in terms of, you know, degree completion, student retention. Right. So off the top of my head, I don't know. But I'm happy to kind of, you know, take something from you and get back to you. Because I mean, the OU is, because it's completely open, you don't have to come with any kind of pre-qualifications in any kind of sense. So our retention figures in some kind of way, I'm sure people kind of don't want me to kind of say this. But, you know, they don't really stack up to people who kind of say, well actually if you're coming with 4A levels of grade A plus and so on and so forth, you know, so we have a completely different kind of student demographic. Yeah, so students come in here. Yeah. And it's students taking or individuals wanting to take a single class or individuals wanting to do a degree program. So I think a lot of that does, my receptionist, a lot of that exists here, but a lot of the focus is, certainly with the recent funding, is how do you take the folks that do want that degree and how do you make sure they can lose them candidly and reasonable amount of time. And the piece we're looking at is, can you help with the preparation piece, which then kind of works its way through? In the UK it focuses more on the student completion of an individual course. So we, so students, yeah, so students kind of can sign up for programs. So whilst they're doing individual courses, they stack up into a program qualification. The university is moving more towards a program kind of delivery. So students actually make a commitment to sign up to a program. That's something that's kind of coming in due to the funding changes that we've had in the UK. So, So presumably you're a funder at the end that's something to look at, right? Absolutely. You always want some results. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it's about, you know, it's about the students, isn't it? So the students are wanting to achieve, you know, their goals, their success goals, whatever they might be on an individual basis. And, you know, that's what's important, the retention of the student kind of a success. And everything that we do, well, in terms of, you know, the students sitting right in the middle, you know, of everything that we do, so that we, you know, we are developing those courses around. So we've done an awful lot of developmental testing, students in, taking their qualities, and we're all going back in. It's all feeling back through all the time. But the metrics, the metrics, it sounds like a revolving in terms of what program outcomes you're looking for. Yeah. I'm not best placed to talk about that. But there are people in your unit. There are, there are not, there's a whole unit that just does that. All right, great, well, I'll follow. Yeah. Kelly. So, as you think about it, I have an assumption that you're working with a smaller group of partners right now as part of this grant process, but this is kind of currently the model that you would expand and bring in other, other, like the community college parents. Is that the case? Yes. So when you think about the, the variability that comes into this, you know, I find this, I can remember, it's requiring significant customization and another patent never is using something that is much more out of its oxygen to what you provide us. Yeah. Does that, does that impact your scaling or time? Does it need to move more in one direction or the other in terms of it being, being more broadly adoptable, or is that something that you can imagine, that degree of variability continuing at scale? So I think that the challenges that we're perhaps encountering with this project, that we are tackling, I think that it allows for that scalability because we've got the original. The original is there and it's open and available and people can take it and they can use it now and do whatever they kind of want with it. So it's there and available. So the bits in some sense we need to kind of crack is kind of make it more accessible in terms of being able to kind of make the changes that you need, personalization in some kind of way. Perhaps making the other versions, the versions that perhaps fit best with your community college available. So, you know, like I said, that's scalable. No, it's a good question. You know, we're running a marathon to get to where we're at right now. Right. And we have the tools that enable us to do all of that, but we frankly haven't had the time to think, really think through, how do you do any support multiple versions? The initial intent was, there was going to be a kind of master class from which people would be able to take and modify or use as is. I think we sort of got hit a lot sooner than maybe we were expecting, but with the variability factor and that's caused us to have to do lots of different things which goes back to the turd and plan thing of the interweaving and then changing up how we're doing the evaluation assessments and then also providing materials back out to prospective adopters of material. So, the original goal was to provide three courses that you could take and use as is and with assessments and the ability to track that over time. That's really what NGLC wanted us to do. Great theory, not necessarily just great practice and I think we're still trying to work through where that is. So, you have a place now where it was almost more like you have kind of the initial courses and then a few different flavors of those courses. We're gonna start it from that core and what's probably still unknown are those flavors, you know, your... Is there a point? Is there a drop rate that are going to cover most of the institutions or is this gonna be just correct or not great? So, that'll come out of the evaluation. We've got, as I said, we have 33 community colleges kind of interested. We've got the vanilla version which is there already. We're just about to have the, whatever, raspberry rip and kind of that. And then that might lead on to other things. I think one of the key things is that the first course, learning to learn, that was quite unproblematic in the way in which it kind of was converted from the openings course into the one for the British success. Obviously the maths course because it's moved online as well. So we've had a whole heap of kind of challenges there about maths formula and maths and maths, math and math, et cetera, et cetera. So, I mean, that's some of the issues that we, you know, we are dealing with. And I think we're dealing with them. Yep, absolutely. I have a sense that we're out of time just about that rate. Two minutes. Yeah. One minute. That's one minute. One more question for us. You mentioned technical difficulties. Could you give us a couple of examples of the kinds of problems you're overcoming? If only Guy was here. So I think from our point of view, you know, the OU has got a very, you know, we have our own XML schema which does, you know, which enables us to kind of spit all sorts of different kind of versions out. Now, you can't get at that, you know, if you're not inside the OU. Now, that's something, one of the reasons I guess I've taken it on, that's one of the reasons why that group wanted to be involved in this big from an OU point of view is we need to crack that up. You know, we can't always be the people that they turn to in order to kind of do that, that manual kind of work. And, you know, we're dealing with that XML editing kind of issue by reviewing, not that I'm not tech, I'm tool tech. So we can't. So oxygen XML editor is something that we've been looking at for the OU and something that we have been using as a version for using. On this particular transition for the magical. So that's something we have undertaken to training out the community colleges using that XML editor in order to make those transformations so they can actually do it in-house. Okay, can I take a call up there? Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


Hi guys, welcome back to my YouTube channel. This is Daniel Rosalier in today's video I want to talk about some of the best communities on reddit for people who are interested in data storage and backup Starting with the data hoarder subreddit. This subreddit is our data hoarder It's a pretty big subreddit. It's got 622,000 members at the time I'm recording this video It's slogan is it's a digital disease and according to the about community description It's a sub that aims of bringing data hoarders together to share their passion with like-minded people So if you're into stuff like backup data preservation talking about The pros and cons of different types of storage media for long-term data backup or archival This is to the best of my knowledge the very best community on the internet That is probably going to be smaller niche forums out there off reddit that I don't know about But personally I find this a really really useful subreddit Just browsing through the posts on the subreddit today People talk commonly about building their own NAS's they talk about backup strategies And these are some of these guys are managing like crazy amounts of data On-site and in the cloud. It's a decent subreddit. You can see there's a pretty big moderation team And they have a reasonable amount of rules nothing to it's not a particularly I find it a particularly friendly subreddit lots of techies here and I was going to say not unfriendly and then I realized a double negative is probably confusing I find it a relatively friendly subreddit and there's tons and tons advice You can see the flares they have here question discussion hoarder setup sales news troubleshooting backup So if you're interested in those subjects This is welcome. This is open to both hobbyists to the extent that preserving your data is a hobby as well as pros There's a couple of other subreddits. I wanted to do to round this one out There are a couple of backup specific subreddits But they're much smaller than the data hoarder subreddit. So if you have questions about backup if you look at the top post on the Data hoarder subreddit for let's just take the last Let's just do all time. Why not? You'll see the backups actually It's one of the flares and it's a subject that gets Covered all the time here. So I think if you have a backup question It's probably just as easy to post on data hoarders as it is on the backup subreddit One or two more storage and data and it's that related subreddits There is I found a small cloud storage subreddit if you're particularly interested in storing stuff On the cloud and you want to discuss the various cloud storage options Particularly if you're you know using big cloud storage. So again, like data hoarder style if you're Putting terabytes or even perhaps petabytes of data on the cloud if that's even possible This is another small subreddit. I like these small subreddits 2.5 thousand members. They're a lot smaller They're more focused, but I tend to just also look for the all-in-one shops like data hoarder Finally, there is one There is one storage subreddit because storage is obviously such an integral part of managing data However, this is not a This isn't really a kind of talk about storage for your average joe subreddit As you can see in the community description. It's a subreddit for enterprise level it data storage related questions So this is really intended for People working in the industry who want to discuss Professional enterprise grade storage data the data hoarder Storage comes up all the time here, particularly the more niche forms of storage nowadays such as lto Or my recent interest ldisk mdisk So if you want to get information about starting your own tape library This is a topic that I see all the time and data hoarder if you're interested in preserving your data data I don't even watch it. I don't like data data hoarder data preservation data storage data management Data backup then these are the best communities I found on reddit to date and I think also the best on the internet Thank you guys for watching more videos coming soon