Hello and welcome everybody here in the room and on the live stream to this press conference from the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in Davos 2016 the question we are trying to answer with this press conference is can Europe become a magnet for talent and In order to answer that question. We're joined by an expert panel Who are actually spending every day of their life to answer that question and to make it happen Let me quickly introduce the panel to you To my immediate left. We're joined by Helene Ray. She's professor of economics at the London Business School and If you're watching on the live stream, you're doing the right thing because the economist said she's an economist to watch So right in the center of our plenary of our panel here is Carlos Moedas the commission Commission of a research science and innovation of the European Commission and last but not least we're joined by Jean-Pierre Bourguignon the president of the European Research Council Thank you for being here. Thank you Commissioner, let me jump right to you You're if I if I might put you in the spot. You're the man responsible for for Europe's attractiveness for talent What's your perspective? From Brussels, how are we doing? Are we are we doing the right things to attract to attract talent and to become a magnet? Thank you very much. Thank you very much for all being here, and I'm very happy first of all to be here with Professor Bourguignon and Professor Landray because I think they are really The right examples that what we're doing is the right thing and that we have to keep investing in science and innovation Technology to get the world better and to be more productive to create more companies and to create more jobs And so I think that it's very interesting that this year Davos is talking as a mainstream subject the force industrial revolution And that it's really means that the mainstream The heads of state the heads of government are interested of talking on these things that will change the world And for the first time you see this long-term view of where Europe should or should not be And so I think that the European Research Council is really our major and best asset to Get talent to Europe and to actually put Europe really at the forefront of the force industrial revolution So as part of the big horizon 2020 our program for research science and innovation The ERC funds work of some of the most brilliant minds In frontier research people really that have discovered Things that will change the future of our lives and the welfare of our planet Discoveries that will definitely fuel this force industrial revolution without a mechanism like the ERC I can't see how Europe could be at the forefront So when I look at these my first year of the tenure of being a commissioner for research science and innovation The examples that come to my mind of people that I've met that are ERC grantees some of them that are improving the indoor solar cells or Investigating biological forces behind cell division and it's really by Providing secured finding in the form really of grants that the ERC Freezes researchers from many concerns about the immediate impact of their work and is the point that I wanted to to be very clear I think the strength of Europe here is to give freedom to researchers to tell the Scientists to tell the people that they are the ones who know they are the ones who have to tell us what they want to do and not The other way around and these bottom-up approach has been the key of the European Research Council And that's good news for Europe because to advance really as a competitive global partner We need the world's best to make Europe's their laboratory So our objective is to attract talent is really what do we need to make? Actually to put Europe as the destination of choice for the world's most groundbreaking Scientists researchers and innovators and so that's why I'm so glad to have to my right professor Ray Today because she's she's gonna tell a little bit about her journey and why she chose to come back to Europe and I've seen a lot of stories like Helen here that a lot of researchers scientists that come to me and say You know, I mean Europe because the European Research Council exists. And so I really wanted to Basically have her story About why is she not Europe because she had offers from all over the world. So over the past year really I've been Very privileged person to meet great researchers in Europe with great ideas And I've also had the opportunity to take part in the ERC's effort to make European research more open to International talent as you know one of my major priorities is to be open to the world and the ERC's Making it possible for more young International researchers to join research teams in Europe. I just we jump here We went to Mexico where we signed with the Mexican government to be able to have more Mexican researchers here in Europe So that's the priority. How can we be open to the world without openness? We cannot get the best research. I've made open to the world really one of these three pillars of My mandate because I really want the European research area to inspire the creation of what I call a global Research area, you know in Europe. We've been for 15 years building these amazing European research area and now we have to look to east and west and see how we can actually With these example of getting together all countries in Europe to expand to the other side of the world And so working at global ever really requires a huge amount of openness and that's openness that we are talking here today This is why really I've proposed the creation of a European innovation Council that inspired me Really the work of the European Research Council because we need more innovators But even here the European Research Council is ahead of the curve because one of the things that we are here today And I'm happy to share with you today is that Jean-Pierre Bouguinot and Professor Bouguinot will announce today almost 140 winners of our grants that are called the proof of concept So how people are actually moving from fundamental research Creating products and innovation and so that's a way for us to fund that really translation of fundamental Creation to products in the market and so I hope that these 100 almost 140 Winners will be able to actually to make it and we'll be able to show that Europe is not just a beacon of knowledge But is also a beacon of transforming knowledge into innovation and now I hand over to President Bouguinot. Thank you, Jean-Pierre Thank you very much Commissioner Moedus. Yes I'm of course very honored to be the president of the European Research Council It was a it's a program which was founded by the European Commission in 2007. So it's still a young program But we have already Distributed I mean the European Research Council distributed About 6,000 contracts So we should enable the researchers to develop their research at their complete initiative And that's a very important point and the ERC is really pressing the researchers to be as ambitious as possible So we want really this to these Support that is given by ERC to be really as flexible as possible But completely at the initiative of researchers the other point I want to make which again concerning being a magnet Of course, it's very important particular that young people feel comfortable about that And so it was a decision of the scientific council Which is responsible for how one spends the money, which is a substantial amount of money this year 1.6 billion euro, which is put at this pole disposal of ERC And it was decision of scientific council that two-thirds of this money should go to younger people So I think it's a very important Decision because I think it shows that we are betting on the future and the younger generation The point that Commissioner Moedus made which is this announcement of today Indeed it was another initiative the scientific council to create Four people who have already an ERC grant a smaller grant which is called proof of concept in case Researchers have seen along the way in doing the research an opportunity to really go to more Industrial things which are more connected to industry or societal challenges And we want to help them to make the first steps in this direction Of course, they often this that's the first step You need me to do many more steps and actually we're also discussing with other people More business angels to help to make sure that the path goes all the way So indeed we the good news is that the number of scientists who spontaneously at their initiative Proposed to have submitted the proposal for a proof of concept was something like about 300 of them And that's a very starts to be a significant number because every year we give 1,000 contracts It means already quite a good number and it is Checked by very professional people Who are people professional of development and then that's the way we get the hundred thirty five List of names that we are announced today. There will be a supplementary list short So we are talking about the hundred forty hundred sixty people all together The last point I want to make also in connection with the the role of the European Research Council Which is very very important, of course Is that it's just been recognized by the scientific community as a reference program and from that point of view It's of course something very very important because for us one key element is who are the people selecting the laureates for for the ERC and it's only because it will have been successful in Convincing the very best researchers to participate in the selection that actually we can really be in this position That ERC has been recognized as as really a stamp of quality and it's true that for ERC The only thing which matters is scientific quality of the project. There is no politics behind. It's just strict scientific quality So this is where we stand concerning the openness to to the world one thing Maybe I should stress again because here we are in the world economic forum So we're talking about the world is the fact that the people who Can apply to ERC can come from anywhere in the world and they don't even have to leave their position They can the only obligation they have to spend at least 50 percent of that time in In relation very direct relation with the European institution So in a sense we are not we are trying to attract people from everywhere in the world and actually this is happening and we're also extending this by Commissioner muridas mentioned this agreement with Mexico But now you are see as a number of agreements with a number of countries to also make it possible for Scientists from these countries to spend time in ERC teams. So also that's another way We think will be to create the possibility for the magnet to function. Thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, yeah Helen over to you. You are an ERC grantee So you you know the program well, and I'd actually like to ask you two questions the first one If you could share some experiences From from from your person's perspective there in the second one as an economist What do you think? What's the what's the business case? If you will for for doing this So what's the the economic case and the potential for for supporting research in Europe like that? Thank you very much. So the first thing I would like to say is that citizens these days do not hear very many positive stories about Europe Not so often we have these messages in the media and this is a case where really this is a positive story So it's it's really good to to be here and to discuss the ERC because I think it's one of the very big assets that the European Union has So I am a personal beneficiary of the European with us console When I teach my students I always tell them that when we are in advanced economies the way to grow is through innovation it's through education and all this relies on research in particular fundamental research But but not only also applied research And this is really the way to to actually to to push the frontier of growth for advanced economies We cannot rely on you know mimicking other countries or Investing a lot as as we could do in early stages of the growth process So it's very very important to have a lot of research being being done since it's a public good At least some of the financing has to be has to be public money and there are very many positive externalities to that So very many positive spillovers to society and and simply to the economy of Europe now personally So the ERC has been quite important in my career because I was based in the United States I was actually a professor at Princeton University and I was considering You know moving back to Europe or I had also some offers in in California in Berkeley and Stanford and also in New York in Colombia and When I was considering moving back to Europe I think the existence of ERC was the kind of tipping point that made me really take Europe Seriously and and this is in in the end what I what I did I moved back to Europe So why is that because when you are I guess a researcher? You really want an open environment in which very high standards are set So that requires as was mentioned by the commissioner and by Jean Pierre, you know not about no politics no favoritism It's about competing. It's about transparency of the evaluation process It's about having access to resources and it's about flexibility. So freedom of doing really what you think Is interesting and exciting and this is how people, you know, I think tend to be to be the most innovative so in order to to to get all these things going you need an institution with which functions well and and ERC is is achieving. I think a lot of those goals Now so when I was in the US, I was focusing My work was a lot about the international monetary system and the role of the United States at the middle of it Things like exorbitant privilege of the US because of the dollar and all that and moving back to Europe So I've pursued these these type of of research focusing on the global financial cycle and international monetary policy Spillovers so how the US monetary policy transmits itself cross borders to both advanced economies and emerging markets And this is a topic which seems to be particularly relevant these days as as we are discussing Particular here in Davos, but in in many other contexts as well So I'm very very happy to contribute to the debate and so much so that I'm I'm applying for another ERC grant Thank you very much, Elaine It speaks to the power of the ERC grant that you choose the London rain over California Sun We're we're quite advanced already in in the time of this press conference, so let's not hesitate and open the floor for questions We have a microphone if I can see a show of hands If there are any questions on the floor Yes, there's a lady in the back there if you could state your name and organization for the sake of our online audience, please Thank you Who's Titled a magnet for talent in Europe and these initiatives are good for a few people But how can they create opportunities and jobs for all considering Europe's unemployment problem? Particularly youth unemployment in some countries Thank you. Who wants to take care? I? You know, I think that We the only way we can go forward in Europe as a model is To bet an innovation in science and let me tell you why because we could go through actually a model of having cheap salaries Or going into a model that actually creates value and goes Europe goes up the ladder of quality and Europe goes up and can create companies that can create jobs for people and so The European Research Council for me is a little bit like the seeds the creation of the seeds for that innovation One day we don't never know why when you do fundamental research You don't know if one day or not But if you have those seeds you have the ingredients to actually create that growth and so I think that for Europe betting on excellence betting on the best of the best is Essential for the model that we want to create which is a model of creation of wealth And is a model of actually getting up the leather of quality and so that's that's a very very good question And it's really why you see that a program like this has to be European because you need scale To actually create the best science. There's a small story that I normally Tell of a man that actually is a fantastic European astronaut Luca Parmitano and he normally describes that on what you like about Europe Why do you think it's important that it's European science and he said to me? Do you know what's a tetrahedron? It's basically a pyramid for a simple language You know sciences like that if you want to go with the vertex up if you go on up the quality of science You need to increase the base So if we doubt that without that scale of 500 million you cannot get better And I think that's that's really what the message is today is that you need European scale to do these very good research Thank You Commissioner Jumping you want to add to that? Yeah, maybe I can add a comment to that Which is of course the grant is given to to actually researchers who make proposal But of course this money is basically for them to create a team and actually if you look at the number of people who are Actually supported by your see through the through this Mechanism is actually more less six times more than the figures I gave so it's you already reached a number of like 36 for 40,000 people who are actually supported have been or are supported by you see the second point I want to make very briefly is the fact that we are we just finished a study Expo study of some of the projects which are finished So you know the projects are five years long so that the researcher can really develop the research in the proper way And then some of them are finished so we checked them and we had a completely external group to do that And and therefore it was very important for us to check whether the ambition we had that we would help produce breakthroughs had happened And the data are really quite fantastic. Actually, it was very very good news. We will be give more details very soon, but More something like 20% of the projects have been considered breakthroughs with the very explicit explicit description why it was considered breakthroughs 50% of the considering considered extraordinary Research and 20% were considered okay research and 4% failures. So I think this result is For us was very comforting because it gave the really a very precise description of How you are see has been really pushing people to the boundaries because 20% breakthroughs is actually much more than what we expected We expect the 7 or 8 so I think we are very serious about doing this evaluation on the regular basis That was first time it could be done because we had enough project finished. So I think You are talking about the tip, but I think the tip is really pushing everybody up Thank you very much. Do we have any other questions? Yes, the gentleman over there Hi, Alex Pikman from Agence France press. It's a bit Bit of a broad question, but just linking, you know trying to attract talent to Europe It's the same time we have this refugee crisis, which is also about you know is you know Europe is attracting other Types of people but within that within those refugees within those people coming to Europe. There could be the talents of tomorrow, you know the Steve Jobs Examples used all the time. I'm just wondering how How you see those two things linking and maybe You know to you I may ask a question to you first maybe a professor array, but But also to you commissioner is you know in in in the college at the barrel of Mont in Brussels, how do those two ideas how do I when you talk to your colleagues? How do those two two ideas those two worlds meet? so absolutely, so it's It's a very I think important point in time for for Europe I strongly believe that there has to be a European response to the refugee flows and In a way we you know the numbers are such that we we really need to to have a very well coordinated answer to what is going on it is an opportunity indeed and So what it means is that I think you need several things to happen you need to to invest in the integration of of these refugees and That's an upfront investment you get the return of that investment down the road But it's a very very important investment to make Because as you as you say some of these people Undoubtedly are very talented, but even you know if it's not the case Low-skill market capital not low-skill market integration Low-skill integration in the labor market. Sorry is a very important challenge Because this is this is the way in the end that the refugee will be part of society labor market institutions have a very important role to play there and So we have to to act in a coordinated way to that to happen and that involves resources and I believe you know resources have to be European resources in order for this process to happen as Smooth way as possible So we have a challenge in front of us But there are ways of making it work and it's it's about investing in human capital No, I'm not just to corroborate what professor race just said That I mean we've been going so very very very difficult times And so each one of us in the college try to actually to help in the way we can and so We've just launched a couple of months ago a very interesting project that we call science for refugees And so what we did was basically through one of our website the website that people look at jobs in Europe for research To actually put a kind of a market making where we opened the channel in between refugees that have Really degrees university degrees that are were in research centers or universities to get in contact with European universities And let me tell you that I'm really proud of what's been happening because the European universities Respond immediately and immediately we got more than 100 universities that has I've actually ticked On on that website that are there to help and to get them in contact And so that's a little bit of how the community is helping the scientific community is helping And so we are actually putting people in touch in a very difficult time and of course Really when you look at the people you look at people that were some of them working in universities and research centers In those countries and so it's our duty to do our share But as professor Ray was saying I think the most striking thing is that these is a European problem that needs European solutions and needs for all the countries to participate The member states have to act and we have to actually be able to be united as Europe and give an European answer But that is also Sometimes really you look at the member states and they have to act They have to be they are the ones that are on the ground and so it's really one Really major piece of how Europe should work is that we should be together and we should look it at as a European problem with an European solution Thank you very much mindful of the time We're closing the press conference here. Thank you very much. I'm sure there's time for questions. Maybe afterwards Bilaterally, thank you very much for watching. Thank you very much for being here and a special. Thank you to our panelists for the fascinating insights I think we can be optimistic about the question we post in the beginning. Can Europe become a magnet for talent? Thank you Thank you


I hope you all had a good break. Welcome back. The next item on the menu is a conversation with Mark Graham. It's a great, great pleasure to have Mark here. He's really one of a kind. Currently, he's the director of the Internet Archives, Way Back Machine, where he's responsible for capturing, preserving, and helping people discover and use more than 1 billion new web captures each week. So they basically archive the web. It's an amazing feat. Previously, Mark held positions at NBC News, iVillage, Roho Networks, The Well, and at AOL, where he worked on Gopher. Yes, that's Gopher for the dinosaurs and the historians. You still remember that thing. And right in fact, Mark also served in the US Air Force in the Pentagon, where he actually acquired many of his early computer skills. And he worked on a US-Soviet email service. That's a random fact. Maybe we can come back to that during our conversation. I'd definitely like to learn more about that. But just to kickstart the conversation, Mark, you had an illustrious career starting in the very earliest days of the web. Can you reflect a bit on the evolution of the web as you've seen it, and maybe with a particular focus on the role that Wikipedia has played in your eyes? Sure. First of all, yeah, it's just really great to be here with everyone. I was looking forward to this conference face to face. I've enjoyed many, many of the gatherings that we've had over the years. I met many of you at Stockholm last year. I was looking forward to Bangkok. But you know, this is good. These breakout room things, I've done a lot of zooms, but I haven't actually done the breakout room where you're randomly thrown in with some other people and have conversations. And I just love that, because it actually is like when we physically come together in that kind of semi-random kind of way that happens when people come together in a physical place. And it is also, I think, like the net too, at least the net that I don't know I was thinking about and have been working on and toward for a while now. I don't know if Illustrious is the right, it's just I've been doing it for a long time. Let's just put it like that. I'll just say, I didn't get into this space because I wanted to do things with the internet, per se. I mean, well, first of all, we didn't call the internet back in the early 80s. What did you call it? Getting online.  I worked in the Pentagon. I'd been, this is the time in the early 80s from 80 to 83 when the Cold War was really at one of its heights and there's a lot of activism in the United States and indeed all over the world. There was the nuclear weapons freeze movement, for example, the call to halt the arms race and other kind of efforts like that. So I, when I got out of the military, I moved to Berkeley, California. I was going to get a degree in peace studies and instead I decided to start a computer network for peace activists. To be honest, the bulletin board systems were with a rage at that time. Networks like FIDO, which was a distributed network of PCs, thousands of them all over the world. And I saw many other constituencies developing networks and I thought to myself, you know, why not the peace movement? There were thousands of peace groups in the US and around the world that could benefit from being in collaboration with each other. And that was one of the key ideas and so do I.  It's still running. It's called Association for Progressive Communications, apc.org and many of the APC member NGOs around the world are active in the Wikipedia communities as well. So that's very gratifying. I'd say, you know, obviously I don't mean to go through the history of the ebbs and flows of the changes of the web and the internets and all the rest of that, but I think obviously we're coming back to maybe some of those earlier ideas of openness and collaboration and sharing and community. And for me at least Wikipedia and the Wikipedia communities plural and the Wikimedia foundations and associations they embody many of the best characteristics of those early ideals that maybe took a while to gain hold and you know, I'm sure many of us here in this meeting have had gatherings and conversations and you know, virtual dinner conversations over the last few weeks, we've been thinking about what these times of corona have to teach us and what are the opportunities here? And for me at least one of the opportunities is an amplification of many of the qualities and values and practices that we're engaged with in the Wikipedia community as we help to evolve what we can do together using web-based technologies. So maybe this crisis can help us refocus on these values that the community has and I guess even the fact that we have this remote conference is really in a Wikipedia spirit where a lot of people that collaborate probably never saw each other in real life and this mode of operation is now coming to the world kind of everyone is becoming a little bit of a Wikipedia that way I guess. Indeed, I also wanna say just for this start, please for me and my work and what I really love about physical conferences is I love talking to people. I love you know, what happens when people come together and they just like randomly talk about what they're interested in and then new things for me at least new things usually come of that. And so I put my email address in there mark at archive.org I would, if there's one thing that I want to come away from today with and that is some new ideas, some new connections, some new projects and new opportunities to collaborate with others either on this call or even people who say, oh, you know, this other project here that maybe might be of interest. So I encourage and invite direct emails my DMs are open on Twitter. I'm just Mark Graham on Twitter and in full disclosure I'm not really active on my talk page. So that is one thing. So Mark after I introduced you, maybe you can introduce all of us to the internet archive. What is it that you're gonna do? What's the mission? Yeah, you know, I'll go kind of quickly on this one here. I think the internet archive is a nonprofit. It's about 24 years old based in San Francisco, mostly although we're all over the world. It was started by a guy named Brewster Kale with a mission of universal access to all knowledge. Brewster was an early internet pioneer. He developed some of the initial publishing platforms, one called Waze based on a library standard for those library geeks out there, Z39.50. He sold that to AOL. His second company was called Alexa Internet and he sold that to Jeff Bezos at Amazon just before the crash, it was a pretty good exit. And it gave him the ability to basically pursue a dream that he had had. He calls himself a techno utopian. So this dream of universal access to all knowledge of basically building the library of Alexandria version 2.0. Could we take all of the works of humankind and make them available to everyone, wherever they are, and to continue that process into the future? And so that's what we've been working on. It's about, you know, I'd say before this happened that the coronavirus, we had about 150 people. Some of them are furloughed now in scanning centers because they physically can't go to their scanning centers or in libraries all over the world.  And yeah, so for the last more than 20 years we've been working to take analog information, make it digital, preserve it, and then make it available to people and taking born digital information, preserving it and making it available to people. And I can give an overview. We work in a range of media. We think of like media types. So certainly books is a very significant media type for us. Television news is another one. We archive about 60 television news channels 24-7. Radio, we're now archiving more than 1,000 radio stations, 24-7. This, the music, vast quantities of music in a variety of different medium, including 78s. We've got this fabulous collection of about 180,000 digitized 78s.  And we have 22 million completely open journal articles there, and maybe metadata on about 100 million others. Yeah, so I find this focus on the analog really fascinating, I have to say, because for me the web epitomizes the digital and in that nearly paradoxical, the Internet Archive also has this huge focus on the analog, which makes a lot of sense the way you put it, because I guess otherwise it'll be gone. Yeah, well, it'll be gone or wouldn't be accessible to people, right? You know, certainly things like, well, certain media just have historically done somewhat ephemeral, like television news, right? I mean, yeah, unless you were, there are some examples, we actually worked with the estate of someone named Merriam Stokes. There's a movie about her, you could go Google Merriam Stokes who obsessively recorded television news on tapes, you know, hundreds of thousands of hours. So that's an anomaly. Other than that, I say produce out there, well, radios like that too. And it's not just for historical purpose, but how can you even know what the voices of humanity are right now? Much of the world's population gets their information with their sense of reality, what's true and important in the world, from radio. And, but unless you're capturing all of it and doing the speech to text translation and then be able to do the full text indexing, how can you do research on that? How can you know the spread of ideas? How can you know the correlations between the messages that people are getting and maybe, oh, I don't know, certain, you know, public health related behaviors that they might be expressing, things like that. So, so yeah, lots of opportunity for research, right? I'm starting to kind of want to seed some of those ideas for those of you out there who are researchers looking for data, we got some data. But I'd be remiss to, I'm sorry. How can we get access to that? For example, through the Merit and Stokes archives. That was pretty easy, honestly. You know, we tend to group things into what we call collections. So it's archive.org slash detail slash something. And that's something, there's millions of those somethings and some of those millions of those somethings are very large, I mean, billions of things. And some of them are smaller. One of the big ones with billions of things in it is the web collection. And the web collection is in turn broken down into tens of thousands of other collections. But that's pretty much where we put things that we archive from the web via HTTP protocols and then make available through the Wayback machine. The Wayback machine being the term that we use for this service that's been archiving much of the web since 1996. And I think when I wrote that little introduction was a while ago, we're actually archiving more than a billion URLs a day now. At one point it was a week, it's now more than a billion URLs a day. But I also wanna truly underscore, I hope I don't use any superlatives in this share today because words like all, it's like we scratch the surface. We just do only some and we'd like to do more and we try to do what we can that we think will be most useful. How do you decide what to collect? I kind of set myself up for that question, didn't I? Well, first of all, it's a work in progress and I'm always open to suggestions from people about how we can do better. And it's not just me, it's a lot of other people. So the answer is a whole variety of ways. So I'm gonna speak to the web for a little bit because say in each medium is a little different. I'll speak to books too, I'll get to that. But in the case of web, there's kind of, I kind of think of things as two worlds. One world is where we probably can get almost everything if we try. And so an example of that would be, can we archive every URL referenced in every Wikipedia article in all Wikipedia sites within a few seconds or a few minutes of that being entered and then archive all of the links on that particular page. Can we do that? And the answer is yeah, pretty much. We can pretty much do that. It's a couple of million a day. So we do that. Another one would be say Facebook, right? It's like, okay, we archive Facebook. And the answer is gosh, not even a little teeny little bit of it. So there we have to be selective. And so we use a variety of methods to listen to signals of the kind of things that we think might be useful to archive. But we also don't do it. Some of it we do ourselves internally where we direct, we come up with these lists. But in many, many, many cases, I mean, three other examples where it's a big collaborative process. One example is we do have a subscription service called Archive It.  We're a nonprofit, but that's one of the ways that we bring in revenue is these institutions. They pay us money to do web archiving. And they're basically like various and then they will define what it is they want to be archiving. So we give them a whole turnkey environment they can define the things they want to archive. It's called the Archive It service. Another example would be, and this is especially true over the last several weeks, is we collaborate with the many different research organizations, the Stanford Internet Observatory, Graphica with a K for a Straft and a variety of others, the internet research folks in Cambridge. And they do studies and they'll come up with their own list. They're also journalists. We're very actively engaged with many journalists. The New York Times in particular had been providing us with URLs, thousands of URLs that they have been asking us to archive relative to COVID. And then the third category is everyone who use the service because it's this great feature on the bottom right of web.archive.org called Save Page Now. And anyone can enter a URL into that feature and they can then even do a check-off box that says capture outlinks and they enter and then we will archive that URL and all of the outlinks immediately. Right now that is archiving about 50 million URLs a day. Now, obviously that's not 50 million times people are entering a single URL, some of it is scripted. Plus if you enter one URL and it happens to be like a front page of a news site, that could easily generate thousands of URLs to archive. Yeah. It seems like an amazing symbiosis between the Wayback Machine and Wikipedia because Wikipedia is all about documenting. Some sources go away, but you want to have them permanently. That's why Wikipedia articles also have a permanent ID and it just seems to fit together so nicely. It does. And so let me shift a little bit to our work more closely with Wikipedia. So about books. We've been digitizing books for a long time. Before coronavirus, we were doing about 2,000 books a day. We get much of our books now from an organization called Better World Books. Better World Books is a used bookstore, basically, like a big online used bookstore. And one of our nonprofits bought it last year. We wanted more of the books that we wanted. We were having a hard time getting them. So we bought one of the world's largest used bookstores to get it. It's about a 400 person company. And then we prioritize the books that we want to get from that bookstore based upon whether they're referenced to Wikipedia articles and whether they're cited in college and university courses. And also whether they're popular in certain library lists. So Wikipedia is a huge driver for us in terms of identifying the books that we want to digitize. Why do we want to do that? Well, there's a couple of very specific projects that we've done with Wikipedia over the years. The first one many of you have heard about is where we fix broken links. Fixing broken links is kind of remedial work. And it's important. I wish we didn't have to do it. I actually think it would have been better if when we build things, things can be born archived so that you wouldn't have link rot. You wouldn't have the risk that a given URL could just go away or content drift. Maybe even more difficult than link rot. Link rot's when a web page just goes away. Content drift is when that URL resolves but what is there is different than what it was before where you'd expect it to be the same. Like you wouldn't expect front pages CNN.com to be the same every day but you would expect say an article to be the same or at least to be able to know the differences like you can in Wikipedia. So we started working several years ago as I noted earlier archiving outlinks from Wikipedia and then outlinks from those pages. And then we also began working, going through Wikipedia sites, identifying broken links and where we could edit those to correct them, to fix them, to restore them. And I think today we've restored about 14 million links on 30 Wikipedia sites. Obviously 30 is not 300 and a push for me this year is to get that number up so that our software which is called Internet Archive Bot is running on all 300 Wikipedia sites. I work with a great team of people doing this work. Many of them longtime Wikipedians, Maximilian Dorr is one of them, Stephen Balback, James Hare, very active in the Wikidata space, Edward Betts who used to work. Oh my God, this is so weird. I said Edward Betts and his name just zoomed by on my screen. So that was strange, it was spooky. Okay, and I, Edward used to work for the Internet Archive but I didn't know he was such a heavy duty Wikipedian but I met him in Stockholm again last year. And so that led to a collaboration that worked. And then also Jake Horlitz and Jake was the founder of the Wiki Libraries Project at the Wikimedia Foundation. So that's the team that's currently working with me on this work. So we started with the Fixing of the Broken Links but what we've been working on now for almost a year is adding links to citations of books and other things like journal articles on Wikipedia articles, right? And so we've been working on 10 specific Wikipedia language editions so far. We've added more than a quarter of a million links to more than 125,000 books. We got slowed down a little bit because of COVID but we're cranking away at it. And I just wanna show you, I don't have any slides or anything but I'm just gonna try one little screen share just so with this, so I don't know about the rest of you but when this started I got books about viruses I went to Wikipedia articles and I wanted to watch movies about viruses. So I watched Contagion, right? Contagion was a 2011 movie and then, let's see if this works here, I'm gonna do a screen share, I'm gonna say screen share and I went to, is that working? So share. Okay, good. So that's the Google search and I saw Contagion and it says 2011 film Wikipedia and I went to it and I was looking around and there's an entry for a book and the book is Animal Viruses, Molecular Biology, Pendra and Nephaviruses, this is a chapter actually in this book and ISBN number right there. Well, that's really great. I wanna learn more about animal viruses so I'm gonna click on the link and I'm gonna be able to, oh, wait a second, I can't read what's there. Oh, interesting, yeah. They want me to buy the book for $319 but that's interesting. That's the book I wanna see, bats and viruses, I wanna read that chapter, I can't do that darn. So anyway, that was, there we go, okay. So that's an example of what happens when a book is cited in a Wikipedia article that you can't read and I wanna fix that.  That's the proposition, why not? And so that's what we're working toward. In this particular case, I found a copy of that book and I really wanted to have it ready for today but it's not ready yet. I bought it for $197 from a used bookstore. It wasn't Better World Books. I would have got a discount if I got it from Better World Books but so I bought the book, $197 plus shipping and the best part is the book was deaccessioned from a library. So what does that mean? That means a library threw it out, basically, right? It was deaccessioned, taken out of a library, taken out of circulation, some library somewhere, some taxpayer dollar or some donation. Somebody bought that book at some point and then it was no longer available. Now, I don't know if this book is, the be on the end all is gonna have the answer to the virus but I think it's an example of the value of access to information when and where you want it and so as soon as we have, as soon as I physically get the book, we're gonna digitize it but I'll link it up. Now, obviously I don't scale. If I just go around buying all the books that we want to link, it will take me a few centuries but two things, one, what can scale is if we can automate the process through our own acquisition process and through partnerships with libraries and foundations around the world and some actively pursuing relationships with foundations and libraries around the world and also maybe if we can accelerate more of that grassroots individual, Wikipedia style, barn raising effort to identify and digitize and link primary sources to Wikipedia articles. Do you read your books before after scanning? Do you read them on paper or on screen? Well, I actually, I don't really like reading paper anymore personally so the answer is digital, always digital. For me, digital. I buy the hard copy and I donate. I mean, that's just, once again, that's just like the one offs but I'll tell you about another book. And this book came out last, it came out today, actually. The book is called Active Measures and it was written by Thomas Redd and it's a book about the history of disinformation. We're gonna make a distinction here between misinformation and disinformation as like when it's a deliberate attempt to mislead as opposed to just being in error like misinformation. So Active Measures came out, I bought four versions of it yesterday. I bought a hardcover version, I bought a Kindle, a Google Play and an Apple Books version. I normally don't get so obsessed but the reason I did is this book may be the most highly archived, most well archived and cited book ever published. They are useless to Prelative. Okay, so there are 67 links in the book to Wayback Machine links and there are 75 links in the book to specialcollections.archive.org with thousands of pages of primary source documents. Many of these are formerly classified government documents from Russian archives, US archives and other places around the world. So 142 links are in the book which means that they're, first of all, you can go deeper if you want to, you can go a lot deeper but also because the links in the book are archived links, they're not gonna go away. At least there's a much, much, much better probability that they'll stick around for a long time than if they weren't archived. Mark, I wanna make sure that we stay on time and we have about 15, 16 minutes left but I wanna open it up also to the audience questions. Before we move to that, maybe one less question from my side, Wikipedia has run by volunteers, many of whom we have in the audience. How important are volunteers for the internet archive? Hugely important. I'd say, I work with many volunteers, we use Slack pretty extensively so I invite people in but researchers, I mean, you had a researcher on your team, Bob that did some work with us so I would say we have data, we have applications, we have projects, there's a storytelling project that I'm trying to bring to fruition around using web-based archives to tell stories. So we've got project ideas, we've got data, we've got APIs, and we've got people who could help also. So I would just invite anyone who thinks they might want to be able to contribute in whatever capacity to please reach out to me at mark at archive.org. Great, thanks a lot Mark. Now over to Isaac who I think has curated some questions. Yep, thank you, thank you Mark, thank you Bob. First question comes from Zebra, and they say, first great strategy for picking which books to digitize and all strategies would have some downside. However, rare books are hard to find by Wikipedia's and would then likely be overlooked. Is there an equivalent to archive this link for rare books or other rare media? No, there isn't. And we really don't focus on rare books just because of the physical aspects of them and the expense. All the books that we work with, actually we own, we purchase them where they're donated to us. But having said that, there are other projects that do focus on rare books. And that's a great question because that's caused me to think what I could do as partner with some of those projects that have already done the digitization. I know Dan Brown, he paid for a whole lot of books to be archived about feminist spirituality and history. And I'm just thinking to myself, I bet there's an opportunity there to link some of those books to Wikipedia, that those particular people working on that library maybe haven't thought of yet. So thank you for that question. Next one comes from Nicholas, and they say, how do you deal with Facebook scraping not allowed policy? Not allowed. Proceed until apprehended. You know, we just do the best that we can. I mean, I'm not sure if that was a technical question or a policy question, but it's, yeah. We do the best that we can. But the other thing too is if people are using our safe pays now feature it's them doing it.  Great. Next one comes from Omer, and they say, who are the other techno utopians of the pioneer generation like Brewster whose projects are still around as non-profits and not for-profit corporations? Well, I mean, in the Bay Area there's Creative Commons, for example. You know, certainly Wikimedia. I mean, big time public knowledge is another one. There's Mozilla, you know, Found Foundation. There are, gosh, I don't know. I'm sure there's others that people, Association for Progressive Communications, APC.org, as I noted earlier, Amnesty International. You know, not necessarily thought of as a tech organization, but certainly more of access now that people do that the great conference that was gonna be held in Costa Rica, I think, this year that's not gonna be be held. But it's called, what's it called? The Internet Rights Conference. Yeah. There's many, many to the study of knowledge management education that do OER Commons, open education resource organizations, Wiki Education Foundation, many. Great. That's actually really nice to hear. From Andrew, they asked, are there any plans to expose archive resources via API? Absolutely. If you go to archive.org, I'm done on the bottom. I think there's, we list all of our APIs there. If you go to web.archive.org, which is the way back machine on the bottom left, there's a link to APIs. Our APIs can always be better, but we've got a great Python library that you can do magic with. And that's one of Brewster's obsession. I should say the guy who founded this still runs it. So Brewster typically would be in the office every day. Now he's just on Zoom every day. And he's an engineer. He went to MIT and he was a software developer first. And so we're totally into, I'd say one of their top five strategic directions is trying to make it easier for other people to use our services, contribute to the services through the APIs. Great. Let's continue with this quick fire. From Hussama Dean, they say, have you thought of using tools for automatic semantic annotations to link books with Wikipedia references? Yeah, we have. And I think that was, I would like to, could you contact me directly? markuparchive.org? I'd say, we are doing a little bit of, fuzzy logic matching or whatever, for books that don't have ISBN numbers, for example. There's a bunch of challenges with books. One challenge is books that don't have ISBN numbers. How do you know which edition of a book sounds you're referring to? The other thing is, in many cases, the books we're talking about here are, these are books that are still being sold, right? So we just can't take a book and just make a digital copy of it and say, hey, anyone can have the whole book? That's just, that's not what we do. And in the case of linking to these Martin books from Wikipedia articles, we try to, we link to a preview, so two pages of the book. And so the trick is, how do you get the right two pages? And so, and if a page number is referenced in the article already, then we try to match that to the page numbers, the physical page number, the logical page number. And so, depending on how the book was scanned and how accurate the metadata is, that can be a little tricky. In many of these cases, if people wanna go deeper and they wanna see the whole book, then they can borrow a digital version of the book with digital rights management for up to two weeks. And so we lend out books equal to the number that we own. If we own three copies of a book, a paper, then we will lend out three versions of it in a digital format. We call that controlled digital lending. Then you can read about all of that at controlleddigitallending.org. Is that something that, this controlled digital lending, is that something that came out of your organization or is this a broader movement? It evolved, you know, we had created something, actually, the late Aaron Schwartz worked with us, and Aaron created an open library back in the day. And it was very similar to Wikipedia. The idea was one, it was basically a wiki, one page for every book ever published. And that was the idea, metadata about that. And now for about four million of those pages, I think there's 20 million pages, clearly there are many more books published. The actual book itself is available, at least in a preview fashion, if not a complete borrow fashion, house.archive.org. Very nice. One question that I noted down here earlier was kind of putting together the two different angles from Wikipedia and Internet Archive. In Wikipedia, there's this big debate about inclusionism versus deletionism. So some people wanna have Wikipedia articles about everything. There's nothing that does not deserve Wikipedia article and others are more this curationists. Some things are not noteworthy enough to go to Wikipedia. So I'm wondering how the, is the Internet Archive's attitude more like a hoarder's attitude? We wanna get everything, or is there stuff that you think it's just not worthy of being included? Yeah, it's not really, it's not an either or. I think certainly our staff, our team and volunteers who work with do focus on things that what, we focus on certain things that obviously we don't focus on others. So I already mentioned radio, about 1200 radio stations. So we had to pick those 1200 radio stations. And we didn't go for popular music radio stations, we went for talk radio. So that's just kind of at that level. Having said that, just like with Wikipedia, a big part of what makes the Internet Archive what it is is the contributions of just anyone who wants to contribute to it. And so there were thousands and thousands of submissions every day of text, of audio, of video, old time radio, people that are just, I mean, we had one, I just, let me come to the end here, but in late February, no, in late, late March, we launched something called the National Emergency Library. So the National Emergency Library is what we took about 1.4 million of our digitalized books and we lifted the waiting list on them. They're still available through DRM, but we allowed more copies to be available than we physically owned. Then we did this because almost every library in the world was shut down. And certainly in the United States, almost every single library, so all these books, hundreds of millions of books are sitting on shelves. People can't get access to them. So we launched that. And yeah, the... Would it be a great way of keeping people in the libraries employed, giving them all a scanner and start scanning A to Z? Yeah, yeah, so. What if, for example, let's say in 1999, I created a webpage and it has like this really embarrassing photo of myself and I, it was snapshot it for whatever reason by the internet archive. Is there any way I can get it off or? Yeah, look, Bob, if you just write to me and I'll take care of you, say info.archive.org we have no interest in embarrassing. Oh well, if you're a politician, a public figure and you do things and then it's public, if it's a public event, then we're not going to. They may be a little different, but generally speaking. My question is actually a serious one because in Europe we have this right to be forgotten. So there are lawsuits now about people wanting, like their pages off Google for example. I'm wondering have you been... Yes, certainly, any request that's a legitimate request under the law of the United States is the Digital Manual Copyright Act about things that you'll own, but also under the European right to be forgotten. We generally honor those requests. If we didn't, it would be very hard for us to. But I wanna go back to the National Immersion Library and say we noticed some interesting behavior at one point. We wrote a blog about this. So if you go to blog.archive.org, we wrote a blog about this yesterday. We talked about kind of obscure things. It's like, well, how do you know, one person's used the word hoarding. We tend not to do that, but something one person is interested in may not be of interest. So we noticed that there were thousands of books that were being downloaded from the National Immersion Library every hour. And then put back, people were borrowing them and putting them back where someone was over and over and over again. We thought, oh, someone's abusing the system, right? They're trying to, I don't know, whatever. But it turns out it was someone who was interested in Isaac Asimov. And what they wanted to do was they had built a dataset of every reference that they can find to Isaac Asimov in every book they could find. And that's massive collection of references to Isaac Asimov. So that we didn't expect that anyone would have that particular use case based upon what we've done. I just wanna say, things that I'm interested in is, I'm interested in having ensure that everything that people add to every Wikipedia article is archived in real time and that there is a born digital, a born archived link available to people. I wanna make it easier for Wikipedians to write better articles by having easier access to more useful data sources, including books. I mentioned earlier an interest in Easter Island. My personal collection of Easter Island books is pretty extensive. Only a small number of them are currently referenced in the current Wikipedia article about Easter Island. So I wanna make it easier for editors to get access to the reference material that they can use to write better articles. I'm also interested in how different topics are treated in different languages. And so I spent a fair amount of time about Chernobyl, for example, and collected an archive library of books about Chernobyl. So that the Ukrainian and the Belarusian and the English and the Russian, the Japanese articles about Chernobyl at least are able to benefit from common data sources. I could go on about that, but it's kind of like looking forward, moving forward. We'd like to see how archives and libraries can be of greater use to Wikipedia editors and Wikipedians writ-march. Isaac Asimov would have been the perfect segue back to Isaac because I think he has one more question from the audience. Okay, thank you. One final question. I think ties together what you just said with Dr. Wade's keynote as well. It's from Lodovic. And they say, what are some of the best ways for people to help make the internet archive more diverse, thinking in the context of culture, country, gender, and so on? I would say, bring yourself to the archive, right? You are part of that diversity, or if you're part of that diversity, but I think it's not just what we're doing, it's what we're all doing together. And so follow your particular passion and your particular expertise and contribute. Contribute those books, those materials, those audio recordings. I'll just close with, for myself, there was a children's author that I wrote in, that I wrote that I read when I was a little boy. And it was a series of books I've written in the 1920s to the 1930s. And I actually went on eBay and I bought all the books. I think it was like 37 of the books that this author wrote. It took me a couple of years to get all the books, but I got all the books, 37 of them, digitized all, there's a collection now, the Leo Edwards collection on archive.org. But then I thought to myself, that's interesting. I mean, I could do that. I could spend the money to buy a used copy of all of these books that were written so long ago. But why not all the books? Why not have an archive and make available every children's book ever written, ever published in every language, and make all of that available? Many of them are so old that they're no longer in copyright at all. So that's not even an issue, right? And so there's really no reason. And we have the technology, it's not a lot of money, and it would be a benefit and value to the world. So that's another example where people can come together and contribute their own particular point of view. Mark, this barrage of superlatives came exactly when my cell phone reminded me that time's up. So I think it's the perfect time to stop. Thank you so much for this conversation. I had a blast. And I think it was illuminating for a lot of the people. Great, great for everyone. For me, certainly to learn so much about the Inner Archive. And I hope you will have a lot of people writing to mark at archive.org. Thanks a lot. Excellent. Thank you very much.


Good morning. So we were discussing basics of solid state NMR spectroscopy and its application in a structural biology. So in previous class, previous two lectures we have discussed why solid state NMR, what kind of biological sample we can investigate, those biological samples that are not amenable for crystallography or neither they are soluble, they are perfect for solid state NMR, for an example membrane proteins, integral membrane proteins or amyloid fibres, these kind of difficult molecules that cannot be specialized neither they can be dissolved in solution for doing liquid state NMR, they are perfect sample for solid state NMR. We also looked at how magic angle spinning improves the resolution, then we discussed about cross polarization, how cross polarization increases the sensitivity. Briefly I touched upon decoupling that is required for again resolution enhancement and I said that we can use decoupling techniques for getting the lost structural information. Today I am going little more detail into these techniques and also I briefly touched upon proton detection, why it is needed and what can be done using proton detection. So let us move ahead little bit repeating what we discussed. So here is our sample packed in a rotor, this is the solid state NMR rotor and this rotor is placed at a particular angle that is called magic angle. This is the direction of magnetic field that is in z direction. Now this sample is spinning at very fast speed and that enhances the resolution. So essentially magic angle spinning averaged out the chemical shift anisotropy and it helps in getting good sensitivity and resolution. So what it does? So let us take an example of a simplest molecule like glycine. So this is a simplest biological system glycine with two carbons, one CHCO and another CH2. So we are getting two broad peak, one centered around 50 ppm another centered around 170 ppm. When we start spinning this anisotropic interactions that are because of different chemical shift that we discussed last time there, these spins are oriented in various direction and resultant gives you broad spectrum. So when we start spinning these are getting splitted and we are getting many line as we increase the spinning speed about 5 kHz you see we are getting two sharp line one centered around 170, one centered around 50 ppm. And at 14 kHz we are clearly getting two very sharp peaks. These corresponds to C over resonance, this corresponds to C alpha resonance. So that is what magic angle spinning does, it averaged out the chemical shift anisotropy and it enhances the resolution and sensitivity. Now how to spin and where to spin what we use for spinning? So as we discussed we have a different size of rotors. These rotors are made up of zirconium oxide and here we put the biological sample. So depending upon what is the size outer diameter of these rotors we can choose a spinning speed like here 7 mm or 4 mm, 4 mm can go up to 14 kHz in broker system, 3.2 mm can go up to 24 kHz, now 2.5 mm this is 1.3 mm. So depending upon what is the outer diameter this rotor can go up to various speed like this can go up to 65 kHz. We can really now using these people can detect proton and step of the art is 0.8 mm rotor that is used for proton detection it spins really fast about 120 kHz. So these are the rotors where we put our biological samples and these has to be robust because we are spinning very fast. Now for spinning we discussed that we are using air so there should be some caps here so you see the caps which has a fins here. Now here the drive pressure and bearing pressure that we are giving in the probe that helps in spinning and these floats and for detecting whether the rotor is sitting in the right slot or not we have here the black mark that basically using optical detection system it detects and helps in spinning of the rotor. So these are the caps that are used for packing the samples these are of different shape and size like this is there are two prominent one is made up of KELF and one is called waste pill. So these are two different caps that are used for packing the samples and spinning it. This rotor has to be really carefully packed it should be balanced it should not be leaking and caps should be tightly fitting otherwise it can break. So really one has to be careful by packing the samples and spinning and for solid materials there are some tools that is provided by the manufacturers that basically these tools helps packing the samples inside the rotors. Now where does it sit so as I said magnetic field is in z direction here is our probe dissection of the probe here our rotors these rotors are sitting. So depending upon what size rotor is the whole dimension is accordingly fitting it. So this is this whole assembly is called a stator that is oriented at a magic angle and here we have a flexible coil connections they are these are various coil for detection and also sending the pulse here is the place where rotor actually spins using air that comes from bottom. So there are two main air bearing air and drive that actually spins here in the stator and that is create the different spinning speed that we were talking. So the another term that we had discussed is like a decoupling that in improves the resolution. So decoupling is what we say we are this is heteronuclear decoupling. So we are exciting carbon with 90 degree pulse and detecting carbon this is one dimensionless spectrum so S spin is being detected after the irradiation with a 90 degree pulse. During that detection period we are applying a high power decoupling that decouples the proton carbon coupling that we had seen that it loosen out the interactions. So that improves the resolution. So here I just in a schematic I have shown you if I have a static spectrum we get really really broad peak when we decouple we improve little bit of resolution but with mass we increase improve quite a bit of resolution and this is adamantine which has two flexible carbon and now with mass and decoupling we can really get two sharp peak with increase in resolution as well as sensitivity. So to re-emphasize this magic angle spinning with mass and decoupling these are two basic building block for any solid state NMR experiment that improves the resolution as well as sensitivity. So this is kind of like a CP pulse sequence and dipolar decoupling that I show you. So just to have an analogy this is our 90 degree pulse in liquid state we are exciting the magnetization using 90 degree pulse in liquid state and then immediately we detect it right. But in general case in solid proton dipolar coupling is huge we cannot detect it when we are spinning at moderate speed. So for that purpose we detect mostly on the X nuclei which is carbon. So carbon sensitivity you know gamma is 1 by 4 so therefore its sensitivity is going to be low. So what we do we do something called cross polarization that we had discussed so we excite with proton and by matching this condition which is called Hartmann hand matching condition we transfer that polarization to carbon we detect on carbon while decoupling the proton. So this pulse sequence is called CP sequence cross polarization and the duration for which we are cross polarizing is called T contact time contact time is here TCT the duration for which we are cross polarizing it. So you know this has to match that Hartmann hand condition omega s gamma s equal to omega i gamma i that is condition has to match for cross polarization to happen. So this again improves the sensitivity of the solid state NMR experiment. So we are just I am showing it what is happening so let us take a mixture of two solids. Now if we do direct polarization means direct polarization means just applying a 90 degree pulse here on carbon if you just apply a 90 degree pulse on carbon and detect it that is called direct polarization like here what we do in liquid state. If you do direct polarization what we are getting a broad spectrum with no resolution. But when we do cross polarization now you can see all these peaks here alpha beta in this mixture of a compound where one is negatively charged another is positively charged these two are mixed to make a kind of jelly kind of substance and if you do cross polarization we can enhance the resolution as well as sensitivity and the enhancement in signal can be directly proportional to the ratio of their gyromagnetic constant. So this is this what we achieve by doing cross polarization. So Cp and mass are building block of any solid state NMR spectrum. We achieve the sharp signal that we had discussed earlier that is needed. Needed for getting any any information that is there. But we are we have paid a huge price by achieving this spectral resolution we lost all those important interactions that were present in the solid inherently like chemical shift in isotropy quadruple or coupling dipolar coupling and J coupling by doing this mass and decoupling we have lost it. And this is required for a structural information so somehow we have to get it back right. So this is something called you have a cake and eat it. So we want to have a cake and eat it too for doing that we need to do some more trick decoupling is not enough mass is not enough we have to do something called a recoupling we have to recouple so that the lost important interactions are brought it back. So that is what we do we had lots of interaction lots of interaction present inherently because of the spins were static now we force them to to rotate by mass and then by decoupling. So decoupling all these spins become individual. Now we want to selectively introduce the interaction between them that is called recoupling. So here we are recoupling it now by applying some trick either during spinning or applying some pulse we need to recouple so that our interactions are brought back and this technique is called decoupling by application of various RF very couple it. So decoupling is breaking the interactions breaking the interaction because of CSA and DD that were present inherently and decoupling is selectively reintroducing these interactions that is what a recoupling means. Now we can selectively know that which interactions is happening with which protons so that is that is what recoupling means. So how it is done it is very simple I have to do some trick one of the important or essential trick is like can we do something with because there are three factors one is RF that is given by us one is already we are introducing the spins. So suppose we have a proton we have a two peaks here one for C alpha one for C o. This is about 50 ppm and this is about 170 ppm. So what is the difference between these two is 120 ppm and suppose we are doing this experiment at say 600 megahertz. So let us see what in simplistic term what we can do. So let us take our glycine right glycine one we have a peak coming from CH2 one coming from C o here are that is what we saw one around 50 ppm and one around say 170 ppm these are the two peaks coming so what is the difference between these two peaks is 120 ppm. Now this 120 ppm suppose we are doing an experiment at say 600 megahertz. So that means 150 megahertz is the resonance frequency for carbon now this we are talking about 120 ppm so in hertz how much it will be right 120 multiplied with 150 that will be something like this right. So this is the difference between this. So suppose by spinning if we introduce suppose we introduce a rotational speed which is matching with this or half of this then this will recouple recouple the interaction between C o and C alpha this is called rotary resonance condition now there are various other resonance conditions that we are going to talk and some of those is called redar recoupling. So this is the simplest one that I talked to just by introducing the spinning speed we can recouple some of the interactions. Now there is another recoupling scheme that is called redar this is recoupling for heteronuclear dipolar coupling by rotational echo double resonance. So this is a simple scheme that is done so we excite with 90 degree pulse on proton and then we refocus using 180 degree pulse here and for the recoupling what we do we select the tau rotor period and we keep applying this 180 degree pulse so 180 degree pulse series of that and then we have refocusing using 180 degree pulse in between and then we have a series of pi pulse. So this is called two phase alternating 180 degree rf pulse for every rotor period rotor period how you can calculate so we know the spinning speed so for one rotor period depending upon what is the spinning speed we can calculate the one rotor period and there has to be two phase alternating 180 degree rf pulse for every rotor period on the carbon on a heteronuclear channel and that basically averaged out the magic angle spinning phenomena that is there on the heteronuclear dipolar coupling. So by and then we apply 180 degree pulse that we had discussed about this in the middle of recoupling block on i channel that refocus the chemical shift Hamiltonian. So by doing this trick of reader we can reintroduce those interactions by recoupling sequence and there are various recoupling sequence that has been developed that have been developed that will be matter of extensive course on recoupling I will not go in detail of that I will just stick to basics of this. So some of the easy one of the recoupling sequence are called pdsd or dar or rfdr I will little bit discuss about these. Essentially what we do in this recoupling sequence we excite the proton using 90 degree pulse then we transfer the magnetization using cross polarization so now my magnetization is on carbon. Now suppose I am doing only 1d so this T1 at the moment just you forget I will introduce in a minute and then we do something called mixing. So we can mix it by proton driven spin diffusion that is called pdsd or dipolar assisted rotary resonance condition. So we apply a pulse here on proton which will be half of the rotors like rotational speed or about the rotational speed that will enhance the decoupling that is done in dar or rfdr radio frequency driven recoupling sequence. So we do that so rfdr is again series of pulses radio frequency driven recoupling sequence that basically reintroduce this some of the lost interactions that were introduced by MAS and decoupling and finally you acquire on carbon. So that is the recoupling sequence that is used. So now we learn how to decouple and how to recouple so one of the prominent proton driven spin diffusion basically this is something called second order recoupling for polarization transfer what we do basically you know we have abundant of protein in the protein. So here one amino acid here is another amino acid we have C alpha C beta C gamma C alpha C beta C gamma and carbonyl here. So at the moment we are doing only say these two nuclei we are in one day we are detecting on carbon while using the proton magnetization for enhancement of sensitivity. So can we transfer the polarization from proton to carbon and then detect on carbon with enhanced sensitivity. So by doing this what we are doing we are enhancing the sensitivity and also introducing the recoupling so that we have enough magnetization. So basically here spectral spin diffusion works on a phenomena called exchange of longitudinal magnetization. So what we do here we pulverize the magnetization from proton to carbon and then we decouple proton and then let them mix the late spin mix that we have seen in typical nosy spectrum. We put it in the longitudinal magnetization and let them let the magnetization mix. So that is what here happened but here actually the happen the magnetization is mixing through dipolar coupling and this is by something called flip flop mechanism that happens. So this using this we can utilize the magnetization transfer in homonuclear correlation experiment. So here we are detecting decoupling protons and letting them mix. So here is the mixing happening and then while decoupling proton we detect on carbon. So this is called PDSD, proton driven spin diffusion. By method of spin diffusion magnetization is getting transferred and we are detecting on carbon. Now this can come into 2D version as well. So here if we introduce a T1 evolution time that we have seen liquid state that will be converted into T2. So just to remind you what how we do 2D. It is a simple experiment more than one pulse we need 2 pulse. So here in 2D experiment you do series of 1D experiment. In 1D experiment what we have done? So we started with a proton and then we were detecting it. So this was 2 pulse experiment and in the second experiment we are increasing this distance between these 2 pulse. In third experiment we were further increasing this distance. So similar thing we are doing here into solid state as well. We are starting with a preparation state and then there is a mixing state and then we are detecting it. In the second experiment we are increasing the distance between this preparation state and mixing state. In third state even more, fourth state even more, fifth state again. So we are increasing it. So by increasing this time distance we are creating another time domain where a spin is evolving and then we are detecting in the direct dimension. So this is called indirect dimension, this is called direct dimension. So if you write it your omega 2 which we are detecting with a time this changes. You can see the peaks is changing and now we can do Fourier transform of these 2. So the 2 direct dimension and omega 1 indirect dimension shows a correlation peaks that we have seen. So this kind of concept is again employed in solid state for doing the 2D and that is what I showed you in previously. So start from proton, start with magnetization cross polarized on carbon and then we are introducing this time evolution. During that time we are decoupling it and then here we are allowing the spins to mix either by themselves which is called pDSD or by application of RF pulse which is called DAR. So by doing these we are introducing recoupling while the spins are mixing and then we finally detect while decoupling protons. So that is what is the 2D. Now we can establish the carbon-carbon correlation spectrum using pDSD or DAR experiment and that is what happens. So let us sum up what we have learnt till now. In solid state we have to take a rotor that rotor should containing all the biological sample whether it is in materials or amyloid fibres or membrane protein, we pack them in the rotors, we put the cap tightly and then we put in the magnet and in the magnet it is oriented at a magic angle at 54.7 degree and then we start spinning at desired spinning state with mass and then we are applying decoupling sequences we are getting sharp lines for each spins. Now we can extend this 1D information into 2D where establish the correlations. So this is now 2D correlation but here you see diagonal is only appearing so this is self-correlating. When we introduce this recoupling using RF sequence or pDSD so decoupling increasing the sensitivity and resolution, recoupling introducing again the interactions between these spins. So you can selectively introduce it now you can see these two spins are correlating so this is the 2D with correlation matrix. So that is what we are achieving spinning speed and cross polarization improves the sorry removes the anisotropy and removes the strong coupling it increase the spectral resolution and finally using recoupling sequence we are extracting the spectral informations. So using these things now we have transition from one dimensional solid state NMR to two dimensional which is the essential for getting any structural information. So let us see how our spectrum looks like 2D correlation spectrum. So like here pDSD or DAHR is carbon-carbon correlation spectrum you see it looks like exactly like a nosy spectrum that we have seen in solid state NMR and this looks like HSQC spectrum so this is NC correlation. So let me just explain you briefly what pDSD we were or NC we are discussing. So here we have N and C alpha right so this is the correlation we are. So here we have started with a proton transferred to carbon and then we are using the again CP condition we are transferring to carbon we are detecting sorry detecting on carbon while decoupling protons the one dimension the indirect dimension is N evolution and then indirect dimension is a carbon evolution. So that is what we are having here the carbon and nitrogen correlation. Now each of these peaks so if you are doing NC alpha each of these peaks giving idea about one amino acid. So each amino acid will have one NC alpha correlation so this is exactly like HSQC spectrum that we have seen in the liquid state that is the NC. Now carbon-carbon spectrum pDSD so what we are doing we are first polarizing all protons then using CP we are transferring to carbons these protons can transfer the magnetization to neighboring carbon or directly attached carbon and then we are mixing them so carbon mixing is happening and therefore you see lots of peaks are coming like a nose depending upon distance. So if you say take any isolated peak here are a trionine peak these are serine peaks so you can see C alpha C beta peak is getting correlated here C alpha C gamma peaks are correlated here serine has only two carbons C alpha C beta so that is coming here these all are actually the gamma and delta of isoleucines that are there. So the pDSD depending upon how long mixing time we are keeping how much dark power we are applying we can achieve longer correlation so all the way from C alpha to C beta to C gamma to C delta even the neighboring one like some of these will be neighboring interactions and these interactions like no G spectrum is very useful for getting the resonance assignment also getting the structural constraints. So just some more spectrum so we can even here we can have a HSQC kind of a spectrum. So in this experiment what we have done here that we have started with a proton transfer to nitrogen so like HSQC we had earlier right they started from proton transfer to nitrogen and then in indirect dimension we are evolving proton while detecting on nitrogen. So here we are getting H and 15 spectrum but things to be noticed here very importantly protons still has a broader line with you look at the line with this looks really elongated and if we compare this with NC spectrum this quite well resolved. So proton at the moderate speed still has lots of inherent problem of spectral overlap because the dipolar couplings are not averaged out but still we are getting quite distant spectrum in the solid. However if you look at the line width is quite huge about 250 hertz. Similarly we can do carbon 13 and 15 spectrum like all the carbon 13 HSQC we have. Similarly here we can do HSQC but again the lines are going to be broad. So here if you look at this is C-alpha, C-alpha and H-alpha correlation you can get C-alpha, H-alpha, C-beta all these methyl up to carbon proton correlation but line width are really broad. So we are not getting enough resolution here and it will be difficult to assign few of the peaks you can see here are still sharp these are coming from C-alpha, H-alpha and these can be easily identified. So here even though proton is in indirect dimension because the dipolar coupling could not be averaged out we are really getting broad spectrum and therefore the faster and faster speeds are required and lots of technological development happening in this direction. But at a moderate speed actually heteronuclear detections and heteronuclear correlations are of quite benefit. However we are almost getting liquid like spectral resolution using PDSD and using NCA experiment we can essentially get the resonance assignment. So people have developed various sequential resonance assignment like whatever we have in liquid just protons is removed in the name so you can have HNCO like it starts from proton transfer to nitrogen and then to C-alpha CO like these are the various transfer schemes NCOCA this is corresponding to HNCOCA this is H like H is not involved here CANCO, NCA-C-b, NCO-C-b, CANCO-C-b so you can transfer the magnetization from one nuclei to another nuclei to establish various correlation between N15, C-alpha, C-beta, CO and that is what helps us in doing the resonance assignments in solid. So what I am going to do in the next class I will be taking some of those methods how to go for resonance assignment but to give you an impression that if we assign all those peaks we can easily get the secondary structural chemistry like in liquid we have seen that depending upon what is the resonance frequency for C-alpha and C-beta we can find it out whether they are upfield shifted or downfield shifted like suppose we have a beta sheet in beta sheet the from the random coil the C-alpha will be upfield shifted and in alpha helix it will be downfield shifted C-beta will be reversed so we can assign those and then subtract the random coil from those value plot along the sequence and we can find it out the secondary structural information of the proteins polypeptide chain. So you see by doing these experiments we are all the way arriving at the secondary structural information using solid state NMR techniques. So here I will stop to by giving you impression that solid state NMR can be used for a structure determination. I will go little more detail show you what are the pulse sequence in details how you can use those strategy for resonance assignment in solid and how you can get the structural parameters for getting the structural information as well as the dynamic information in next classes. Thank you very much.