Good afternoon everyone and welcome to this conversation with an exceptionally talented group of artists writers and cultural workers on the topic of this there is no time or there is brackets no time. Today, we have with us, Annika Bello, Jade Foster, Seda Urgul and Tuna Urdem from the Istanbul Queer Art Collective, Jade Montserrat, Gabrielle Della Puenta and Zarina Mohamed from the White Pub and myself, June Lingo. I believe you've already heard from performing borders and live art development agency so thank you everyone for making time on a Sunday in a particularly difficult transition point between lockdowns and a transition in seasons. Today, what we're going to do is we're going to ask each of our contributors to introduce themselves and their residencies so they'll each have about five minutes to speak. And then we'll go into questions around related to time. And then we also have time to go into Q&As from the audience or also other contributors. So if you do want to ask a question, if on your screen you can make it a full screen in the right hand corner, there should be what I'm told is a bubble icon, and that is the chat function. And in the chat function, maybe write question in capital letters and then what your question is for ease. So that's that's all the admin. And let's start off hearing about the performing borders residencies. So if I could ask Annika to begin. Hi everyone. So my name is Annika Bello, and I'm a writer and founder of Oranica.com, which is a space I created online to talk about pre-colonial African history. And that was very much the theme for my residency with performing borders. I, before everything went down in March, I was really lucky enough to travel to Benin and Nigeria at the start of the year. And that that trip really offered me an opportunity to reflect on ancestry and I felt inspired to create a piece on the topic of fluid borders. And I think it's really interesting because when you think, when I sort of think about a border, I think about its rigidness and the fact that like, you know, it's these kind of lines that sort of dotted across countries or maps telling you where you shouldn't go. And the essay I used as an opportunity to sort of show how culture reveals just how fluid borders can be. And it was from the experience of me going to Benin, a country that I've never visited before. It was a country that I have like no sort of family, direct family ties to. I was able to sort of find or sort of see aspects of home in the places that I went to and the people that I met and the culture that I engaged with. And Benin is right next to Nigeria and it has a really interesting history in terms of pre-colonial times, showing how sort of fluid borders were because of the sort of Benin empire and Oya empire of the Europe of people. So that was what my essay was exploring. And I speak about my personal experiences as well in the piece because I was undocumented for the first 10, 11 years of my life in the UK. And yeah, it offered me a chance to sort of talk unpick the concept of borders of what it means to be a migrant, but also what it means to be fluid and to be able to sort of embrace different identities. So I really enjoyed writing that piece and it was nice to sort of check out the other contributions from previous residencies that performing borders have created. And I'm going to, I'll stop there. And yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation. Thank you, Annika. Jade Foster. Hi, everyone. I'm Jade Foster. I'm an artist, curator, creative producer based in Nottingham. I am also, I work independently, but I also work at New Art Exchange based in Nottingham and primary as an assistant curator. And so I did a, I did a curator in residence with performing borders. And I was looking at live art practice, particularly working with kind of black and brown artists curators working in kind of performance live art sound. And I was thinking from a borders as a, as not only something physical but thinking about language borders, like how we communicate with each other. And through this residency, I've been having conversations with artists curators about their practice but also about how we are generous with each other, how we share, how we, how we create spaces of rest. And, and yeah, just kind of how we kind of navigate space within our kind of institutions within kind of our cities. I was kind of thinking about borders in a very broad way and had a really pleasure to kind of speak with a range of people and also be mentored by Adelaide Bannerman. And resituating my practice in London as well, which gave me a really good opportunity to connect with people and artists that I would never probably be able to, because resources or because of time, etc. But yeah, that's me. Thank you, Seda and Tuna. Hi, my name is Seda and this is Tuna. We are the founders of Istanbul Queer Art Collective and we founded the collective in 2012 in Istanbul, Turkey. It's only eight years ago but I mean it feels like a lifetime ago. I mean it was, I mean quite different times. So three and a half years ago we moved to London from Istanbul.  It becomes an identity, it becomes a part of yourself. So what we did with performing borders this year was a digital residency at the beginning of May. And it has two parts. I mean, we just delved into their extensive archive and we made an Instagram post about their past collaborations. And other than that, Tuna, every day, just read a poem in our garden because it was the lockdown time. It was just very mobile at the time. She just read a poem each day and I mean maybe not at something. Yes, I chose the poems from poets who lived in countries that they were not born in or wrote in languages that were not their mother tongue. Because that kind of sort of resonated with our situation. And we're called the Istanbul Courage Collective. We started out our performance work in Istanbul with a lot of people. That's why we're called the Collective. Now we've sort of become a duo because we are migrants. We had to leave everyone behind. Actually everyone went all over the world basically. So the lockdown itself felt like even the same process getting more heightened, basically. We were already like 10 people, 15 people when we started out. We moved here. We become a duo. And then with the lockdown, the reading of the poems, for instance, I was doing the reading. She was doing the reading. She was doing the shooting. So it felt it was even more smaller because of that. But poetry was the only thing that was helping in connecting with all this experience. So we wanted to share that and also to share other people's work that dwelled around the same subject. So I guess this is about it. Super. Thank you, Jade Montserrat. Thank you. Thank you all. I'm, yeah, Jade Montserrat, an artist based in North Yorkshire. And the residency for me again, I suppose, became a matter of connecting to the community that was available to work with me, essentially. MAF were theater group based in Leeds, Bermont Office, Lincoln Green and Mab Gates. I know Leeds sort of really casually, I suppose. It was the only place that I could go to get my hair done when I was younger. So it was really good to be able to connect knowing that we weren't going to be able to meet. The residency itself was allowed me to think about how to make even an initial connection to make contact. So I wanted to sort of discuss with others what essential needs are or what brings us comforts. And that culminated in buying materials for packs that could go out with the MAF were sending to the community, including digital access as well as food. I just sent seeds and growing materials and sketchbook and charcoal, which is something that I use a lot. Like everything during this time, it's felt like there aren't enough resources or there's not enough to give. And so it's been a really rich time for me in that everyone was so responsive to the idea of making simple connection with which to then allow me to work again with Web Alice, my friends and colleagues, filmmakers, and develop the ideas that we've been working on for a number of years in terms of our relationship and our collaboration. And yeah, it allows me then to use the residency as a springboard, which I suppose is how I do a lot of my work with which to then reflect and then specify or pin down what it is that's the core of it or the essentials that I can then speak about or disseminate further. Thank you. Thank you, Gabrielle and Zarina. Yeah, we did a, I feel like in comparison it was a little bit more of a selfish residency. So whereby we took over the performing borders Twitter account. And I should probably give an introduction first, shouldn't I? Sorry, I'll go backwards. Me and Zarina are critics slash game critics slash sometimes Zarina writes about food now as well. We are pretty prolific on the internet. So the invitation to do a Twitter residency made sense. We did a Twitter takeover of the performing borders account. And yeah, it was kind of like a fast seven days in the beginning of July where we took turns and we went through the archive and all the different articles and interviews on the website and made Twitter threads of our thoughts. Every day. To be honest, it was quite interesting to like write in that way. I think often we write quite finished whole complete thoughts. I think those threads were they were like quite sporadic quite like scraggly like they kind of that you could kind of see thought process through and it kind of meandered in a sense and just writing up against another person's words or work was like an interesting way for us to write because it's not always like that. Yeah, and I think we like for me I think it was probably the most reading I did in lockdown, which because I didn't need to and no one was there to make me until this residency which I felt really like grateful for. I felt like we were students again, which was nice. It's like a nice moment. It was like a writing exercise actually wasn't it yeah. Yeah, and there's still a lot of like artworks that we read about those I think there's one by Lynn low where she like floats did like a traditional performance in a New Zealand dock where she would like float face down in the water with you know it was all kind of like made so that she she didn't drown she had like a secret breath and apparatus. But like it's the performances like that in the images and the way she wrote she she wrote about it like that stuff that I'm thinking about now so I'm glad I'm glad that we did it. Thank you everyone for introducing your practices and what you've been up to with the performing borders residences. Let's, let's, let's discuss. comes to mind when I think about this provocation that's holding us together there is in brackets, no bracket time is about the choice. There are practices that we're making about what to spend time on, and what we choose not to spend time on. And it reminds me of a, a, I guess, a quote, or a guidance from the writer Adrian Marie Brown, and they say what we pay attention to grows. I'm really curious about how we've been dealing with time in in such a precarious moment. And also how looking back at time gives us something different. And I wondered if we could start off this conversation. Maybe with Anika and Jade, asking both of you. What does exploring history, a lineage or ancestry equip us with today.  Yeah, sure. So, yeah, it's interesting because it's felt as if there has been so much time and then there is like, yeah, no time. And so, like, in terms of how connect engaging with ancestry. So engaging with culture. So cultural practices, whether it's the food I'm eating music I'm listening to. There's that's that thread that's connecting me to ancestry so that link between past and present and definitely in, in, in this, like this year I've really leaned on sort of what I think Jade Montserrat mentioned of going back to basics. So really focusing on what, what grounds me what enables me to be present and whether it's food I'm eating or whether it's yeah films that I'm watching or just really just being with my family those, those intimate moments of my life are sort of helping me to connect with the past was being in the present and being able to sort of see, see this year and see everything that it's, it's, it's brought up. Yeah, that's, that's definitely what comes to mind. And with Annika you talk a lot about exploring yourself through a practice of discovering ancestry and lineage. Can you speak a bit more about that. Yeah, so, so growing up in the UK I wasn't particularly interested in in ancestry or heritage or anything like that. It was a lot of time, thinking that it was almost like this, this barrier between me embracing my, my Britishness. And so, yeah, it felt like an annoyance, but it was only obviously like within, you know, entering my 20s, wanting to sort of just know about, about where I'm from and things like that and then that curiosity just leading me to different spaces to questions with my family and then that sense of almost like a coming, coming home in a way and that's a full circle moment of, of wanting to, yeah, explore what you know the different elements of my ancestry, whether it's through culture. I find that to be a easy gateway for me because culture is informs everything that I do in my life so that was really helpful for me. Thank you. And Jade Montserrat, do you feel like you want to answer to speak to this as well. Could you repeat what you asked. Thank you. Sure, I was asking, how does exploring history, a lineage or ancestry, equip us for today. So what lessons, knowledge, learnings, do we take from the past. Yeah, I think it's truly vital. I'm a big advocate of sort of disciplinary approaches to educating myself for certainly. And I think, yeah, just in relation maybe to divert, to digress a bit, but when we were talking earlier when we were meeting half an hour before this and we were talking about television and reality shows, I get a, yeah, a sort of a very, sort of the pang of despair, I suppose it could be around then looking back at how those sort of form and it leads back to my research on Josephine Baker and then her, her, I can't remember, I think it was with Langston Hughes that she was speaking with about having her own sort of reality show with her children on display, Chateau de Milan. And then, you know, you think about how someone like the president of the United States gets to power and how that kind of, so I suppose what I'm saying is, is answering to the question of now in relation to recent histories and lineages from a personal point of view. I, I find it kind of, there's a blockage for me because my mother, for instance, still gets very upset and I rate when anyone talks about, you know, at school, I was, they did a, they asked children to draw out their family trees, things like that which would scare the living daylights out of my mother because of course I don't know my father and this kind of thing she found really intrusive. She also found the idea of sort of families or in working, working situations if anyone sort of talked about that family idea at all, which I can understand as well, but for her it was really difficult. So I'm really catching up on my personal ancestry and that I find sort of displacing as well, you know, personal history where I clearly don't belong, where I live and that's been made clear to me, not something that I have courted in any way, but at the same time so dislocated and I think that it's just really helpful to be able to maybe make inroads on that kind of understanding of our own situations if only for sort of health reasons right so that you know what you might expect in your life, which is, you know, half of that I have no clue at all. Yeah, I just think trying to make connections between collective histories and personal histories is generating new knowledges and helping us to make decisions about how we can bring them real wild and world I suppose. I wonder if this question of dislocation that a blockage in a family tree can have and what what other blockages are happening or dislocations that are happening in our current lives and I was really struck by what you said as comment that you became a migrant and that was a new experience and at first it's a word but then it changes you in many ways. And I have a really sick joke with a friend of mine who's a person that's recovered from cancer and we always say there are just two types of people, those who have had cancer and those who are going to have cancer and just don't know yet. I was quite sick. But I equally think the same with migration and the experience of being a migrant. I think you're either a migrant or you're about to become a migrant. And I'm really curious about what kind of strategies that tuner and said you took as you were transitioning into this new experience. When you faced a very hostile environment. What did you have what were your strategies. We made art. That's the only thing we know how to deal with anything basically so we made art for actually performing boarders last year about the hostile environment. We did this performance called moibus stripping where we had to post that year to the home office. One and a half kilo of documents each. And we have to do that every year to keep on being here. We sort of sat down in this duration performance and cut up the documents in strips and then turn them into moibus strips where the inside and the outside is not obvious. So that was quite terrific. I have to say, for instance, but in terms of what happened this year, we came to this country when both of us were 40 something quite age wise. It's time to start from scratch to begin anew in a place where you know no one.  We do feel a lot like teenagers starting out. So we're like in our mid 40s, I'm even 50 now. So, yes, the change in space and change in time is interestingly interconnected, basically, and of course the perception of people, a lot of people here is that we come from a place that is backwards in time in the sense that people usually have this one line of linear development where every sort of culture goes through and the culture that we came from is in backwards time, which is of course ridiculous and is not true. But still there is this very interesting sort of shift between time and space that we keep on experiencing and I think lockdown has made other people experience that as well. There's a regression that comes with lockdown that sort of seems like it as well. If you want to add anything to this. I mean, how can I put this? I mean, when your relationship with home changes, lots of things change and one of the main things that changes is the sense of time, I guess. So after we moved here, after we became migrants, I realized that I luckily, very luckily, I mean, it's a sort of privilege, I guess. I mean, we had a very, very stable lives.  The life that we had before was, I mean, pretty stable. But when this sense of home starts to change, it really shatters your sense of time.  I mean, just three months before feels like three years ago and sometimes just the opposite. I mean, five years ago feels like yesterday and you just, I mean, I personally lost that fluency in time, which comes, I guess, with stability and becoming a migrant just produced new anxieties that I never experienced before. But I was starting to get used to it after, I mean, three years and it's kind of a high and I was just trying to cope with that thing. But then the pandemic happened and it produced similar experiences. I mean, in kind of a different way, I mean, the relationship of ourselves with our homes change and that's, I mean, affected our sense of time and new anxieties are produced kind of a thing. So this is kind of overwhelming for me right now and I cannot just put it in order in my mind. But yeah, I mean, being a migrant and living in this pandemic have some resonating feelings. This is what I feel now. I mean, I'm still in that thing so I cannot just think about it objectively. I am first of all feeling it, but this is what I feel. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I know the conversation that we're having is in the middle of these experiences and feelings and emotions. And yeah, I don't think any of us have comprehensive ways of summarizing or making those connections. And if we, if we are, we're lying or simplifying. So let's just sit with that super messiness. But it is interesting to think about, yeah, the precarity that a migrant feels is can be, can find similarities with the precarity that we're feeling in this moment of lockdown. And yeah, I was interested in what you were saying like a fluency and time equating to stability and not knowing how to deal with time equating then to some kind of instability. Speaking on emotions and the spectrum of emotions that that we might be feeling at this moment. I'm calling both the jades by their surnames so we know who that we're talking to but it sounds very formal. But Jade Foster, in your residency, I was really struck by a question that you were asking. You noted Tony Morrison saying, there is no time for despair, no place for self pity, no need for silence, no room for fear, we speak, we write, we do language. And you asked the question, how to hold space to sustain outrage and radical love in equal measure. And I think this is a tension that many people are feeling how to kind of channel that rage but then also channel that love. And I wondered if you could speak more to this and what does it look like for you or what have you learned from asking this question. I think originally, when I was thinking about that question, I was thinking about black people in this moment and how what is expected of black communities in terms of our response to, you know, George Floyd to kind of disproportionately how COVID is affecting black communities to the kind of onslaught of expectations and just what people kind of put on you and what people kind of expect you to kind of handle, respond to. And yeah, I've just been speaking to a lot of people and the one emotion that comes across is exhaustion, tiredness. It's both kind of feeling irritated by like expecting to do the work, you know, in terms of expecting to educate other people expecting to respond with kind of, with a kind of fighter energy or, you know, and always be in resistance to think and resistance being something that is kind of perceived to be kind of intense will come from a place of anger come from a place of like aggression, but actually, you know, speaking to Roger rage. And it was really insightful and beautiful just to kind of have a space to talk. And one thing that came from that conversation is generosity. And I'm not talking about generosity with kind of non black people I'm talking about generosity between ourselves. You know, and how we take care of each other how we take care of ourselves that was collective care mean being a really important thing. And how do how do we sustain that. And I think that creating networks and creating supportive systems that aren't operating within a kind of institutional violence that I'm going to speak about cultural workers that caught you know black brown cultural workers people of color are experiencing creating systems outside of that where you can feel rested you can feel that you're sharing care and being generous with each other I think that's what I mean by kind of sustaining radical love. Like, I was in a conversation yesterday and someone kind of said that the most. The most kind of radical thing you can do for yourself is is get up in the morning and you know, I don't know, draw yourself a bath or kind of center yourself ground yourself. And yeah, kind of all the conversations I was having with these artists and curators, everyone was telling me just how they are tired of addressing a kind of current landscape in terms of like black lives matter that you know it's exhausting it's been you know, it's pretty much hyper kind of hyper visible within this moment and that with that hyper visibility visibility comes extra pressure extra stress extra, you know, burden, I think, on communities. So, and then with the with the kind of sustaining kind of radical kind of radical love and kind of also sustaining a level of I wouldn't say anger but I would definitely say sustaining the conversation beyond just a moment, or, you know, it's, it's not something that's fleeting it doesn't kind of come in and out and I think having these conversations with these artists it's like what kind of structures enable us to kind of sustain that communication to stay in that conversation, centre ourselves, you know, like healing justice for example, that's incredibly important in in kind of loving ourselves like what is it you know it's quite radical to love yourself when the world.  You know, you're constantly, you know, you're seeing images of black bodies dying or, you know, in pain constantly to circulate in social media it's kind of like to, to, you know, the kind of to hold a space for love and care is radical within this moment is really important and key so a lot of these conversations I've been having is around slowing down is around creating these kind of stops for care stops to have conversations that Roger was telling me I was asking them what you're doing yourself for yourself in terms of care and they were telling me cooking, gardening, you know, just spending some time outside, creating wholesome in that way and it's, you know, it's those kind of conversations are as valuable and as needed, you know, as the kind of political conversation or political discourse so it's just finding that balance basically, I think it's important. But yeah. Thanks Jade. Yeah, really hear you about finding that balance and addressing exhaustion equally equally as you know the urgency of this moment in time and taking care of oneself. I wonder when, when, when you say these conversations are with black and brown colleagues friends bodies that the trajectory of that energy is to take care of oneself, but I also wonder what is the role and how accountable decision makers need to be because they often take that same stance, but often when we are we are speaking or I am speaking or you are speaking, there's a there's a specific audience that you have in mind. And there are different roles that all of us play in a very complicated ecology which has very unequal power relations. And if, in your case, one of the most important things is to heal restore and build those connections and those networks outside of those mainstream spaces. I often wonder what are those mainstream spaces doing, and how can they respond to this moment and what is their sense of time in it, because often in those spaces. The language that I hear is, we need to do this slowly when actually I wonder if a different timeline needs to be set for these spaces as well. I wonder if Zarina and Gabrielle. You want to speak about the work that you that you have been doing to really amplify voices and challenges to many institutions currently, and how that's changed your role as critics or embodied critics or commentators or writers. I think you've kind of voiced something that we've we've been writing about or around during lockdown. I've had quite a prolific lockdown when it comes to art like the institutional essays like the art thoughts that we publish. I think, in terms of the way we work, it's been a politic that we've always held on to within like the website and writing about institutions and exhibitions like I've always, like both of us have always kind of run up against the structure of a gallery. And like, you know, all the baggage and fun stuff that comes with having a registered charity number and like working in a specific way. But it, I think, I don't know if we ever took the time to nail it down in an essay and there have been a series of texts that we've written that have kind of made it explicitly clear where we politically stand and what we politically want from institutions like how, when we say that this is broken, what do we mean and what do we want to see fixed. I think that's been what we've spent most of our time doing, which has been actually quite like, where this has been a frustrating time, it's been really therapeutic to like kind of put it in words and hear people kind of like respond to it in a way that like makes me feel like I'm not a crank. I think it's it's interesting like we've so we've we started the website in 2015 and we got we had our fourth birthday last year in London together. And remember we sat down together and we were we kind of are in this routine of, okay, what do we want to do over the next year is something that we should try and focus on or like like New Year's resolutions, but for our school year and it was just a realisation of we've accidentally amassed this weird power and a substantial audience. So like, we need to do something with it. And we need to start to instrumentalise because otherwise what's the point. Like what we we write about these like flimsy exhibitions and whatever but and that's kind of our practice in a way but what's our political practice. It didn't it hadn't felt like anything was really visible enough at that point we have done bits like there's there's bits on the website that I think manifests that in, you know, making the accounts public or stuff like that. And I feel like Serena especially it partially as well because you were London based this year is has been able to like attend protests and speak up protests and write about these things. For me, I've not felt as able to to give or to be as useful because it's been Instagram and then I do forget how powerful that is like, you know, we jade, we kind of like helped amplify a little bit of that, you know, almost at the very years later, and straight away because the Tate commented on the Instagram post, the Guardian were able to write about something because the Tate had been so slow to say anything publicly and and then the Guardian again in touch to ask questions. And then you just saw this and then you realize like okay, this is taking place on a really strange social media stage that at this point is having implications. So I don't know for me I'm constantly I feel like this strange guilt of like never doing enough and then because I'm not able to be in London at protests and, and then trying to remember that stuff does happen as a result of it. It's always been something we've like kind of tied the line on like feeling like, oh my God, we're not doing enough and like it's also feeling that control that like mad kind of angsty frustration right like not being able to affect the change you want to see in the world or like an engineer a situation where like you and the people you love and care about have equitable terms of engagement with the places they're forced to work with like, we have no choice this is where the money lies like financially like how many people can say no to working with, you know, all these places that are kind of treating them badly and not treating them on equitable terms but what is the alternative like, I think, in that frustration it kind of feels like we're so unable to affect change but like it kind of, we've seen the pace at which it kind of unfolds. I think this summer, and you're right it absolutely happens on at a glacial pace like it's so slow, so slow, and we've really seen the unwillingness at the heart of these institutions to change in any meaningful way like, like the Rex Whistler mural right like they've been fanning about with that in ethics committees for years they've known that it's an issue like but it kind of, they're willing to wait for it to become newsworthy and I think that's the bit that we haven't quite clicked yet, like how do you fucking tell them to hurry up and do so in a way that endears them to do that like do they have to be willing participants in that because with all the Tate strikes like there was a like towards the end of the strike period there was an evening standard article where Maria Bauschel was like oh yeah the white people have been very unhelpful and made personal attacks about me going to the beach and it's like well well Han, like you're moving at an incredibly slow pace and like how do, not just we but like how does any kind of collective sense of like art workers at large move that pace along when it's like you're being unhelpful now it feels heavy action to that also if kind of mirrors like Tori's kicking off about the word scum where like is that really the issue like why are you like building this victim you know identity around yourself when no one's going to buy that I think it's that figure of the cry bully right like you're willing to like throw the weight around then cry when someone says oh can you not like yeah recognising these institutional patterns it's just clicked I wonder if anyone else on this panel wanted to talk about how we move things on how we move that glacial speed for institutions but also in equal measure how we slow down for ourselves I was just going to add something off the back of Jade Foster, what Jade was saying I listened to like an incredible podcast episode this week by I can't remember the guy's name but it's like a new podcast called Resistance by Gimlet and one of the episodes is on the Warriors in the Garden protest group in New York and their kind of energy of coming together to say well we don't want to make, we don't want to get to a point where this conversation drops off and that you know none of the protests are visible anymore we want to make sure that we're there every single time at every opportunity every vigil everything but the podcast was kind of asking ask them at the beginning of it really like how do you keep that going and if you put in this pressure on all the time like what you do and the response was like oh like you know once a week we just drink and it was like such a just clean answer where they said you know we get together and there's this place that does like really cheap cocktails and we just drink and then the next day we're back on it and it felt like it just yeah I just wanted to put that on I put that out there before someone else picks up how to how to continue I guess there are so many people currently putting pressure on institutions the YP, Dave Montserrat, there's you know collectors being formed, there's artists that are putting pressure, Emily Fakoya, you know there's a lot of like open letters, you know all these big institutions are being put to you know put on kind of judgement basically and I think it's just like yeah it's just how there needs to be all these conversations need to be kept in the mainstream they can't become fringe conversations they can't just be activists you know the same group of activists or artists or culture workers doing that work it needs to be a mainstream conversation and I think that it kind of needs to be yeah it's like who does the work kind of thing like you know it's not for just black and kind of people of colour to do the work it's also you know white culture workers which is pretty much the majority of culture workers you know they need to pick up that work you need to sustain that work institutions that say they're anti-racist I'm going to put that in quotation marks like if you're writing you know your BLM statement you need to you can't just do it internally you need to also support people outside of institutional spaces I think that's as important and whatever you can just if you know yeah whatever you can just share you know and respond to and just be yeah keep the conversation mainstream because it will you know I mean we're in blackish month at the moment it's that thing of like why is there still a blackish month like why is this you know why isn't black people in the conversation all year round it's that thing of like hypervisibility in one in one month and then it kind of drops off out of the mainstream conversation after October so it's the same thing in terms of it can't drop off it needs to be you know it needs to remain as top priority both for funders both for you know big organizations like ACE and both for like culture institutions and you know from artists led to multi you know yeah multiple like you know big institutions like Tate and some set house and things like that also you know it's what's that thing of like you know like there are so many times I've walked on the street and someone has said a comment about my hair one time they said this woman just like literally like jumped on me and then started touching my hair I'm not even lying like it was a night out and she jumped to me and started literally like ragging my hair around and her boyfriend had to like pick her up and like remove her and loads of people bystanders just watching you know on the street and it's that same thing of like no one is deaf to what's happening you know it's hyper visible but there's a lot of people that currently just watching you know what I mean just kind of in the background they can't you can't hold that position anymore do you know what I mean you can't hold that position of I'm just going to watch or somebody is being you know torn apart you know when you can see there's institutional racism where you can see those issues you can't just watch you know and I think when you hold that position you're as complicit let's say let's be honest in it really so I would say to anybody watching I'd say like also you know to like non-black people white people you know just just call people out you know and don't just be watch whilst things are happening around you be active get involved listen actively listen and just ask what what can I do you know also ask other white people what you can do so don't just put that on black people brown people etc to tell you what to do you know talk with the other white colleagues the other white culture workers what can what should be do you know to mean and have that conversation within yourselves as well so yeah just don't be bystanders to it all that's what I would say to kind of help sustain the conversation and keep it moving Thank you Jade, Serena Gabrielle, we've got some questions from the audience and the first one is from Cecilia and the question is if public institutions aren't going to change maybe the public needs to defund them exclamation mark exclamation mark thoughts I like I supplied that in the in the little doc and I was like oh like yeah I think I think it's a it's an it's a it's a trajectory on like an approach that we've kind of seen little glimpses of I think this year like there was talk of the arts council introducing that diversity quotas and cutting the funding of I think it was theaters or maybe wider institutions that don't meet those diversity quotas and there's been like moves in the past from the arts council. Like a few years ago all NPO's had to make their creative case for diversity but it was never quite defined what that would consist of. And so, you know, places like the tape past and places like, you know, that I'm aware of that pretty good track record was working with like pretty diverse artists and, you know, like they didn't quite make the cut so like the problem I think is with in some cases the problem lies with the funding body and I think we kind of are able to see the way that the structure itself because like very often like the structure isn't really it's quite opaque it's not really visible it operates in a way that's very misty and foggy and like super mysterious. And I think recently we've been able to see like with the publicity around the funding waves as they come and the urgency of it. Like we're able to see that like sometimes priorities are out of whack and the system through which our funding is distributed is kind of almost the problem. The fact that the arts council is now a neoliberal organ that is meant to be at arms length from the state but kind of simultaneously doesn't really do much to kind of disrupt or resist the state's own interests is a problem like the fact that I think it was the recent wave of cultural funding like the arts council were pumping six figures into organizations that were backed by venture capitalists and like, you know, like, was it six figures to boil a road like. Meanwhile, community organizations are like community and grassroots organizations are like starved of funding, like the way that this funding is being distributed is is almost the problem and I think defunding them yes but like creating a new system through which that like funding structure can. I don't know, basically, because I think the funding structure itself is the problem and it kind of. I don't know how defunding would work logistically when defunding has been a stick with which to kind of manipulate those own ends like it's a sticky one basically. Yeah, and the question of the provocation of defunding also comes with the provocation of then what do you fund and how do you redistribute those resources to those most impacted by austerity by a conservative government by immigration policies. Yeah, by transphobic attitudes. Yeah, it's a that's a big question Cecilia. Does anyone else want to respond to that or we can just just very quickly like they're I know an island they I like the idea of this model instead I don't know how successful it would be and whereby the Arts Council does not fund like institutions and organizations they fund artists and like local authorities will fund the institutions and and something about that seems like a lit like slightly better just in the sense that like you know there are these very disparate Arts Council England and officers and for example the Northwest is in Manchester. So, but so everything goes to Manchester, like, live a full 40 minutes away. It has like a completely different experience of that funding. And I just wonder whether a local council shape would would be better. I don't know though. Thanks, Gabrielle. I'm going to move us to another question. This from Ellis and also Cleo, who are both asking about what does solidarity look like, especially when we are all isolated and yet connected online. How do we build collectivity how do we build solidarity. I'm just wondering if maybe Jade Montserrat, Annika and Tunde and said I can can speak to that. I think it was creating space to recognize the different perspectives that are there because even in the previous discussion about doing the work. I mean to do the work. I mean, for some, you know, institutions or organization doing the work is just giving money away and just, you know, doing a few things for Black History Month and that's it. So, just in terms of solidarity it's creating space to sort of engage with different perspectives. In terms of like long term that there's like more sustainability that can be achieved. Yeah, I think that's, there's a lot of, yeah, there's just a lot of a lot of things that are occurring in terms of money being thrown meetings wanting to take place events wanting to happen. And if all of these things aren't sort of, if the basics aren't sort of being checked, then then it kind of just feels a bit showy and mismatched. So returning to the basics. Jade or Tunde and said. I think I spoke, I spoke about solidarity in a something called parallel state, I think, maybe Sheffields. I wrote about it a little bit. It's really difficult to find. I'm interested in sort of picking up on what you meant Gabrielle about because I think that leads into solidarity about like your role in my case, like, I, yeah, I sort of refute the premise that you were speaking on then that maybe like the solidarity that I found in relation to that has been sort of, you know, widespread sort of people sort of picking what they want to demonstrate solidarity on that doesn't apply to you, but I do sort of, you know, I'd be interested in having sort of clarification about what you meant, just learn about that particular post but like, it's very difficult to maybe convey everyone's individual circumstances as well, because we relate it to ourselves right, trying to measure what solidarity can be in terms of how you can actually implement that the idea of refusal or whatever is all well and good. Practically, it's really impossible if you're not so socially mobile. And what you were talking about about sort of back to basics again this idea of reviewing what it is that and who we're being in solidarity with. I think that, you know, for me and what Gabrielle was referring to is totally sort of located in the UK as well and I'm interested in how it connects really interesting that you bring up Ireland and how the foundations of public new funded organizations that models could be possibly applied to here or elsewhere. I was really interested also in Jades speaking about the idea of radical love and I suppose if we have to talk about Tate today. I think that they, you know, they're doing a whole program on that's called a year of love and I think that what I may be seeing is that we have a very, we have very different ideas around love as well or loving in solidarity or, you know, and I think that the communities and the position that Jade is coming from Jade Foster is very different from any perception of what love has the possibility to be institutionally or structurally. There's a complete dissonance and I think there's a displaced responsibility whereby we can talk about things and I, I think that solidarity as well as action. Maybe it's more difficult for, well it's difficult for every one of us to call things out, you know, and sometimes that can feel like you're dying, and I don't advocate that to anybody, I don't advocate having to show like sort of bleed your emotions in a time with which to get anyone to pay any notice. Solidarity for me is maybe something quite sacred in that it's not, it's not something that you will see necessarily it's not something that will be demonstrated or displayed or it's not performance. So that's, you know, I think that's my take on it. Jade, and I think this can be a space where we do not need to talk about tape anymore. But thank you for sharing. Yeah, those really powerful ideas around solidarity, not as a performance something as a, something sacred. And I'm going to go to the next speaker and said, would you like to share. It's a bit of a long story but let's like try to jump in from an outsider's perspective as people who are new to the UK. What you see as someone new to the whole scene is that there has been some institutional structural problems that have been going on for some time. There are a few things that are happening at the moment as well. And I think that when you see all of them as new, you get the picture where for instance when we are talking about the funding as a way of making things go a bit more faster. From the perspective of an outsider, I can also sort of see that actually the UK might be very happy with the funding arts of any kind. And that when we start to sort of pick on institutions on how much lip service they're actually paying and not doing real things. So I sort of also see that some institutions have stopped paying that lip service even which is I think much more dangerous step towards where we're going. For instance, we have been talking about Black History Month and now the government is like saying things like talking about this in schools. In a way might be considered illegal even so it seems like as an outsider it seems like we're moving towards a phase when even lip service is going to look like something we would want basically. Like I said it might just be how you feel when you're overwhelmed with everything with the history and the new stuff as well. But yes, so in terms of solidarity maybe there needs to be like a bigger picture in the sense that there might be a time coming where the entire art institution as a whole might have to be protected.  I don't know but this is like a bit of a more pessimistic look. Maybe I don't know. But it's like it's quite it's quite a realistic outlook because like as you're saying that I remembered as well that I am. I think the National Trust are being are currently being investigated or they're calling the charity commission to investigate them for not fulfilling the terms of their charitable aims because they're taking a closer look at National Trust buildings and their their role and place in the history of colonialism and slavery like that it's the proximity of the state and the state's own interest that this particular government's interests are like it's too close it's too close and like you're right and like cause to defund can be taken the other way like it's, I think cause to defund have to be quite carefully phrased because while we might understand it to mean one thing.  And that's a really good point towards at the same time of trying to create accountability. In decision makers who currently hold power. We also have to recognize that. Yeah, we're as a culture sector, we do have to collectivize our struggles. And sometimes these binaries are not useful. I mean, you know, the critique and the, the call for action is completely valid. But yeah, just trying to create two categories of, of art beings institutions and artists is sometimes unproductive.  So working with them to transform how they fund and redistribute resources is, is, is needed. I just want to maybe to bring it back to how we will be spending our time over winter and what what what practices will be. What will we be what will we be putting in practice over this winter. What opens new doors rather than closes them. So I'd love to hear from from each of you. What will you be putting into practice across this winter. I might, I got in touch with a guy called Alan yesterday and it's in hell he might have a border terrier for me. So I intend going out and doing more walks. Me as well. I've signed up for nine week and black women's hiking group in London. So I'm going to be learning about navigating through forests. And I'm also learning Europe, which is my mother tongue. So yeah, connecting to your ancestry as well as as being outdoors. Me and Zarina always take December's off, which I'm looking forward to. It can be a bit full on when your job is like 24 seven because it's on the internet. I will be playing the new Zelda game on Nintendo switch. It's been my December break doing sweet, subtle. I mean, I feel like we have accrued the holiday to like have an actual rest like you imagine I'm not going to log on to anywhere. Well, we we come from a culture where there is no Christmas and we're still trying to get used to it. Right when we were trying to get used to it now it might be canceled so we're a bit. But we that's why I think we're going to be working with we just opened a new digital platform and exhibition without console funding. And so it's going to be open throughout December and there's going to be like live streaming performances as well so we're working.  I think I'm going to take Gabrielle's a lovely suggestion about just getting pissed once it to sustain yourself. No, no, I'm going to whiskey. That's a really good food. Spice and peace. You know, some planting food for the soul. And then probably like, I might watch that in the sunset back to reality TV. Again, because I've watched season three. I think it's season three now isn't it, but I'm going to rewatch it. I think and yeah just spend time with people who want a whole space with me and vice versa. People just exchange of really good energies. And just being around people just to ground myself really so December is a month of grounding, I think. Beautiful. Thank you everyone. I really enjoyed this conversation and in each track or question feel like we could have spent a lot longer speaking about it. So thank you for your honesty and integrity and generosity today.


Marjorie Taylor Greene suggests using second amendment rights against Democrats. MTG still wants a national divorce. Democrats respond, come out for the civil war and declare yourself a traitor.  So let's dive in a little bit here. Let me zoom in. So, Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia on Tuesday suggested using second amendment rights to fight Democrats while defending her proposal for a national divorce akin to the southern states' secession of the 1860s. So at this point, she's basically saying, not only do I expect a civil war, I want a civil war, I want us to take up arms against Democrats. This is a sitting member of Congress. Ultimately, the truth is it's our second amendment rights, our rights to bear arms that protects Americans and gives us the ability to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government. Greene said in a podcast interview with former Trump aide Sebastian Gorka while discussing Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams' calls for stricter gun regulations. And I hate to use this language, but Democrats, they're exactly, they're doing exactly what our founders talked about when they gave us the precious rights that we have. Greene, who has repeatedly proposed a national divorce between red and blue states, quickly defended her comments. No one wants violence. Oh, no one wants violence, as you recommend, taking up arms using the second amendment against Democrats, but she doesn't want violence. Wink, wink, wink. No one wants violence. And I say all the time, I am not a violent person, she told Gorka. I hope to never see a civil war in this country as she antagonizes for one. And that's why you hear me toss around national divorce, the federal government has grown so big and the Democrats are willing to use their power of the federal government that it really violates people's rights. Greene is only the latest far right Republican to fantasize about violence against her political opponents. So how is it that these supposedly patriotic Republicans like Marjorie Greene, they're coming out and they're saying, I no longer support the United States. I want a national divorce. I want, you know, different states to become their own countries.  So how is she not a traitor? Why is she still supposedly patriotic? Matt Gaetz, during a rally with Greene last year, urged supporters to use their gun rights to fight government tyranny while stoking debunked election conspiracy theorists. This isn't so incredibly dangerous. We have a second amendment in this country and I think we have an obligation to use it. So remember that guy at the Charlie Kirk event where he's like, hey, when are we going to start killing these Democrats? You have sitting members of Congress echoing that same sentiment. Less responsible than a right wing pundit like Charlie Kirk, who denounced that.  Gaetz said, adding that the second amendment is not about hunting. The second amendment protects the ability to maintain an arms rebellion against the government if that becomes necessary.  They want violence and they are saying explicitly now that that's what they want. They want violence. Madison Cawthorne last summer predicted there would be bloodshed in future elections while stoking debunked conspiracy theories that the 2020 race had been rigged and stolen. Representative Mo Brooks, who has been linked to the planning of the Trump rally that preceded the January 6th Capitol right, said one day after the attack that the only options in response to lost faith in the ballot box is to either submit or you could resist often through violence. So they're saying the quiet part out loud. It's insane. These incessant suggestions of violence have had an alarming effect on the Republican Party's base. A recent poll found that 30% of Republicans believe that American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country. Representative Dean Phillips, a Democrat, demanded that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy take action against Green after her latest comments. Let's just pause for a moment. Imagine if it weren't Marjorie Green and Ilhan Olmore had said something like this. Can you imagine the backlash that she would face? Republicans can say violence is good. We should do violence and they get away with it. How crazy is that? If suggesting the Second Amendment rights should be used against Democrats doesn't immediately compel McCarthy to take disciplinary action, I suggest Congress take action against both of them. So, you know, I don't know what to say about this. If this doesn't show you how far to the right that the GOP has shifted, then nothing else will. And yet, we're still talking about the far left on mainstream media. The far left. We're talking about the threat that the far left poses to America when you have members of the GOP who are elected to Congress openly promoting the idea of violence and a civil war. It's truly madness. Truly madness. They're straight up in authoritarian territory. This is the evolution, or I should say the devolution, from proto-fascism to outright violent fascism. And we knew that this was an inevitability. It's just that the hope was that maybe we can stop Republicans before they got this diluted, before they became this explicitly violent. So, yeah, it's really worrying to see this. It's not surprising. But, um, yeah, Marjorie Greene saying using Second Amendment rights to fight Democrats is a good thing. Literally advocating for a civil war. Insane. Just insane. Or turning on notifications by clicking the bell. No way. It's very sad, I know.


This is where you get really loud clearing my throat sitting up. What are you talking about really loud? Hi Welcome to a video Bob is here again. Hello almost never a good sign about a year ago We made one of these videos where I bought a ton of stuff for Bob Bob bought a ton of stuff for me And then we sent it to each other and we opened it I'm not gonna really elaborately sprain it again Explain because last time I went off on a tangent this time's different because the rules have changed Bob What are the rules I? Wasn't prepared to speak so last time with our budget was $200 and we just went nuts We got whatever we wanted this time. I figured something had to be different. We increased the budget to five hundred dollars We're rich youtubers now because we're both sponsored by all these great companies And we're big-time youtubers now in our net worth if you go to all birthdays don't look astronomical It's crazy. I swear it's not correct Oh Not correct 1.33 is how many subs I have they've literally just taken a dollar per sub that's not how that works Okay, so let me get this straight with five hundred dollars three hundred for a big item And then two hundred for knick-knack and patty wax. Yeah, mm-hmm last time. I was very nice to you Let's see if I'm nice this time. I think I'm gonna be very nice. I've already found your first I'm already $25 in Bob. You got to catch up. All right 30-minute timer starting Now goodbye Thousand percent we are buying this select finish four inch off Bob's a six inch for sure Let's go all out I mean we got money to spend the reason why I came back here is because a year ago I bought Bob one of these guys and there was a pop that went along with it So I want to buy the little popper No way. Oh, it's not on here anymore.  This is gonna stick to I'm super tempted to get this as well It's $40 or so though I think I'm gonna temporarily add to cart and then maybe not buy it. Here's the thing I've got a mess with him more this time It sounds like he's going the nice route for me So we might just have to switch roles because I owe him for last time Bowsette 3d printed booty pencil holder perfect Oh, yeah, you got to get it in gold You know, you know, I actually know what I should buy a boy support boys, right? Oh speaking of the grip and I'm totally not filming this like a month later We sold out so we decided to make some more and now it's almost sold out again after this It's done like it's we're not doing anymore But as a huge thank you to everyone for supporting this project a ton of people have been asking For a bundle with a case so to celebrate how well this has gone and again I can't thank you all enough. We made something We didn't make many of these bundles and the grips themselves are almost sold out So if you want to grab one, there's a link down below This might be your last chance with Black Friday sales and Christmas once they're gone That's it and thank you so much for supporting this. Okay on with the video. I mean, you got to do it Here we go beat them up's limited edition $300 $300 what can I get for $300 that Bob would like I know what I should do canvas prints Okay, upload your photo. All right, baby All right We need this to be as large as possible. We'll go the recommended size 24 inch by 18 inch three foot. That's like a foot That's pretty big best place to print canvas photo canvas pop. Oh, that looks looks great 24 by 32. Oh, so that's much bigger. It's $83. This is better. Oh wait 185 there's my big purchase And I still have $100 left from it. Oh my god, I'm so glad I thought of that. That is amazing It's funny because recently Bob posted a photo of him standing next to an actual giant canvas He painted for his parents and I photoshopped this image onto it But now he can actually recreate that photo with the real thing. All right sick I'm happy with that. I'll have like $200 left man. Hmm. Where did he buy those? Well, that's no that's no that's not a sight I want to go to Zach. I probably should have expected this I have no idea where Bob got what he got. He got me a custom knife How can I up the any on a custom knife? Oh? Sick could I buy him a katana custom sword personalized sword engraved sword. Yes, sick It has to be a Taliano Hey, we didn't see me do that in the camera add your personalization. I only have 20 characters Oh, what can I do with 20 characters? Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda. Oh, there's not enough room Bob the vegan That's good Bob hates being called vegan because he is and he's ashamed of it. We either go Bob the vegan or Hmm. Oh, what do I go with the choices are excruciating? What if I'm just nice? What if I'm just nice? What if I don't ruin his cool sword through the wolf den or just wolf den come back to that because I cannot decide If you're like I'm running out of time And I'm terrified I'm gonna I'm gonna check it on wood right now. How we doing? So I got off to a flying start and since then I have found Oh, I'm the opposite. I was stressing for the first 20 minutes I only got you a couple things and I feel a little bad about that because I know you wanted to open a bunch of stuff But I feel like the quality is very high. Well, I definitely have more than a couple How much time is left to be done five minutes? All right, give me my five custom neon sign so many thirty dollars. Okay. What about I loved the water temple Because I was watching him stream it and he hated that what that's a car I could probably get him one more thing though. Okay. I have a question. Hi for this one thing. I'm looking at nine inches. I Want to know would you like me to be nice or not nice? Is it gonna have an impact on my life? No, they're not nice How nice were you to me? I think I've been very nice. I think I'm gonna be nice then done Hi, uh me again, actually I went to buy everything and it turns out that that massive campus was on sale for half price I didn't really know what to do with it So I figured I would just be nice Bob really loves coffee So I went back to Etsy and got some locally roasted coffee beans. I'm such a good friend I've kind of flipped it a little bit my big purchase ended up being 200 although I haven't seen shipping yet and all my little purchases are adding up to 300, you know The rules are loose. I got you some awesome stuff though. We got some awesome things happening It's gonna be a fun video I feel like I did better than last time at being funny, but I still feel like you are going to come out on top Don't be so sure. I didn't really do too many I can't wait for you to open them. It's gonna be a while. Well enough for these people. It's gonna be like this Is that it was that the transition? Did we just do it already? We have to remember to start it by going this. I'll forget. I'll forget too Hi, I'm not alone We're next to each other. Hi, we are at Bob's studio the Brooklyn studio We're in Brooklyn and we're together and I'm so excited when we first started making this video We did not intend to be together for the second half. We Kim's back there. Hi We just happened to be in New York to do another project that we're working on Bob You know how you sent me all that stuff to my house in Texas? Yes Why don't I just put it all in a suitcase pack it up and bring it all the way to Brooklyn and open it there with you That was such a good idea. I know. I'm so happy we wasted all of that time In fact, one of the things was actually in Brooklyn.  Yeah, and I'm very excited for you to open your present as soon as I got one of yours I Know we think very alike. I'm moving the samurai. Oh, you don't want to use it to open. Oh, I can I can Can you hand it to me like it's a moment editor make this a moment? This is a good first one is it no Always cut away from yourself, but also don't forget don't cut towards other people. It's really sharp. Thanks for my presence Oh, you're very welcome. You're so nice to me.   I'm really sorry, but the game's not in there You have to get the game yourself. Dang it. It's just a it's just a collector's item. Well once again I can't show these on my channel. It's for you then you can't leave the editor lose out Well, the text is horrible now.  It depends on what the starters are Let's do a big one now. I hope that makes it We don't need them anymore. Look at this one though.  No, oh wait. Oh, there's a there's a gift. There's a note Oh, I Get it congrats on your 1.5 million net worth. Okay, great cool. It's not 1.5 by the way This feels like a nice one. That's nice. It is nice. This is so cool This was one of the big things, but it's not the big thing. I just thought it was really cool. That's sick Yeah, I've never seen this and I'm on Etsy a lot. What is it? It's a hookshot. I know this is so cool. Oh It's all okay. Oh You know what they could have done there. Okay, that's That could have really easily been real change. It would have probably been cheaper, but then it wouldn't match true It wouldn't match. It feels like a weapon. Do you want it to battle? I'm stabby. Oh, God That was like actually I really like it. Thank you so much. So glad I got one good thing out of this Yeah, one good thing. There's so many things here You told me you wanted a lot of things to open like your kid on Christmas I feel like a kid on Christmas, but a very nervous kid like his dad open that little bit of Christmas Oh, yeah, sure. Let me just get my hands out of the way. I did. I really helped him. Thanks dad. Oh Why would I want that Bob? I'm married. So was I don't know his life Good it's just fine with it. What did you do? Thank you so much for the love and support means the world, please enjoy free. This is a cosplayer in zero suit Samus Did you sign them she signed them congratulations? My name's brief. Do you want them? I got odd one You can have the other one. Okay, which one which one do you want doesn't matter? So you went to someone's Etsy mm-hmm a girl who's selling cosplay photos And you got her to sign her photos and send them to me like I'm one of her fans I didn't know she would write. I would We I know it does and we made the names on all the packages a little weird So we knew who what was for who I'm sure she's a very nice girl Time to be nice again. Open this This is going very well. Oh, it's a mouse pad. That's so smart It's not the wolf in mouse bed. They can get at a wolfden apparel calm, but it's a little It's a long mouse pad. It's got a fit. No, it's not. It's great. The print's good. It's not gonna move Look, it's not it's not going anywhere. Could I got a smaller one that would have contained to the image No, I did a little photoshop work to get it. Oh, you did that on purpose.  Thank you, Bob. Oh, you're very welcome. Oh There's more Have a good time. I don't know so what? Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh my god. No Whoa, we're just gonna take okay. All right. Never mind. Sorry, and we're gonna Go around It's zero suit samus. You ever heard the expression ramming the joke into the ground Is that what this is? I don't think we're ramming at it.  That wasn't a question. What was the artist's name? We should probably give them a plug adam swanson Oh, that's yes. The a s. Nice.  Literally a s. Is this it? Oh, yeah What do you think that is danger? Demonetization divorce a lot of words that begin with D He took a lot of liberties. This is an artistic interpretation seriously these ones actually on bad She just looks kind of juicy. She's juicy. Yeah I mean that I couldn't probably show which says something about everything you didn't get to see If you want to see three quarters of what love sent me, I'll have to upload them to my only fans. So You have an only fan? I'll have to make one after this. Is that it? That's all the boxes I have here, but there Why are you so upset? I thought I thought this was some really good stuff that we have here What are you about the mat? What are you about? What are you about to say? We have one more There's one more that I had uh, I wrote a city bike in brooklyn to get you yesterday. Thank you very much My cams are killing me. Why did you hide this one? It took a while So I couldn't ship it to you. So I just picked it up from the guy. Oh, okay Here you go. It's another etsy seller. That's very special with that story as a lead-up if this is something really nice It might even make me cry. Don't get your hopes. Okay. I won't remember everything else that happened today I knew he was good. I knew I knew it was going to be something with this thing So I had to do something with that thing also, you know, it's a game boy. Well, it says where's the game? Where's the game? It's a beat-em-ups wood boy and it has us on it I swear to god if this is pokemon tits and ass, this is a modded game boy dmg original It's got an lcd screen, which is actually nicer than the wolftin one. Thank you very much.  It's got the nice new screen. It also has a rechargeable battery. That's usbc Yeah, and it has a very special very high quality audio output So you can be like on a mod of gucci if you want to be so if you hold it That you can change the colors to whatever color you want. And there's so many shades and they're not like super overpowering Now they're overpowering. Oh, you have like shades and then you have like colors That's it. Wait, go back to like the vintage one. That's kind of cool. Sepia. I kind of like that They do a good job over there. See if that made up for everything I know this is why I did this figure. I can ram it home with all the weird and then end it with a good You smell really good. Thank you. So do you. Can I be honest? What?  I spent a lot of time in photoshop making it everything else. I look forward to um losing in luggage No, hey Some cosplayer spends a long time on that picture. Uh, pobri. All right. Well, that's um my portion of the video Thank you so much bob. Oh, no problem. I really like this. This is I mean, yeah, that's very nice Well, don't forget to watch bob's half. Um, thanks for watching Thanks for some of this stuff some of the stuff not all the stuff. I'm not thanking you for all of it Oh, just some of it. Thank you for filming. Thank you you guys for laughing the live studio audience and uh Like subscribe leave a comment down below hit the bell. Um, what else? Um, I think uh, I think I have a good time guys I want because you oh, you're not even good. Bye


Computers keep changing the world, but their power and safety is limited by their rigid design. The T2TILE project works for bigger and safer computing using living systems principles. Follow our progress here on T Tuesday updates. This is the 25th T Tuesday update. Let's get into it. There's a lot to talk about, so this one may go a little long. I'm going to let it go a little bit long, like maybe 25 minutes. We'll see. So last week we've got updates on the 3D printer, on the bill of materials, and on the PCB assembling. Coming up I want to deal with something, well, I'll explain it when I get to it. And also I did a bunch of stuff with new software for the movable feast machine for the T2TILE that I want to show you some a little bit of it as well, and that's why it'll take a little extra time. So let's go. ROHS stands for Reduction of Hazardous Substances. It's pronounced ROHAS as far as I can tell. It's a directive that comes out of the EU that says basically when we're building products, especially tech products, maybe stuff in general, I'm not sure, it would be better if we didn't have a lot of poison in them because we have to live with them and then put them in landfills or put them in rivers or wherever they end up. So it's a good thing. ROHAS is, and one of the big problems with ROHAS is lead in solder. And we talked about this earlier that, you know, with all of the prototypes that I've been hand soldering myself, these guys that we've been looking at, so forth, these are all using leaded solder because leaded solder is easy to handle. But that's why we go to the pros to get lead free. And I had had some discussions back and forth with ETS that I guess led to a misunderstanding or I misremembered or something. There was a little bit of difficulty because I was always kind of trying to get to an actual contract with language and ETS really didn't seem to want that. So they don't work with the contracts or the handshake and so on. So I said, well, okay, if that's the way it works. But now when I was actually getting serious about actually trying to get the stuff scheduled because the bill of materials is going to be there. And I was getting in touch with ETS and saying, you know, when can we schedule to do this? We're looking for 150 to 200 tiles with ROHAS processing and parts supplied, boards supplied by me and so forth. But the response was, you know, do the assemblies have to be lead free? They'd like to wave solder those and there was a typo saying the wave is lead free. They meant the wave is leaded or leaded in. And that they quoted based on assuming they could put lead, they could be using lead based solder. And so the implication is it will take longer and the price will go up yet again. And, you know, this is exactly what I was sort of worried about when I was trying in my nerd way to get everybody to agree on what the language was going to be and get it written writing and so forth. And now at the last minute this is coming up, so I didn't really feel that good about that. But really, the fault, you know, to the degree that there's any fault, it's mine for not either pushing the issue or at least getting some comparative quotes other than just the online guys that were so ridiculously expensive. Try to find some kind of apples to apples comparison to see whether, you know, this is reasonable or whether the price should go up or not. So in fact, this past week I did reach out to other PC board assemblers. There's more than one in Albuquerque, Albuquerque's big city by Albuquerque standards. And now I am talking with other folks about getting a quote and, you know, be very explicit Rojas right from the get go. And we'll see what they say. I mean, if their quote is wildly higher, if it's in line with the revised quote that we would get from ETS, well then, you know, so be it. But I just sort of feel like I need to do due diligence before just saying, okay. So that was a little bit of a bummer, but it make it hopefully it'll come out fine. However it comes out and we'll find out more information in the next week. So that's the scheduling issue. Are we going to have the boards being manufactured in process before the 26th, before the midseason half a year, according to a real season? Probably not. But we're making serious blows down in the last thing, steps of the thing. So that's the manufacturing story. On the 3D printing story. Last week, if you recall, I had been having a chat with the Prusa service people, well, just the Prusa customer support people and they couldn't tell me how to do warranties, get a warranty service or how much it would cost or how to get an RMA. And where we ended up was the customer service person had said, I left a message for the whoever it is when they come in in the morning. And in fact, that did arrive. So the guys at the department forwarded this to me when it came in the next day. And without going through it all too much, basically it's a quote for an hour of work for 34 bucks, which seems like a pretty good price for an hour of work based on the United States standards. But also two one-way DHL shipments, $110 each and $100 was what it cost to get the thing sent to me to begin with. But here there's absolutely no implication that if it is a warranty claim that Prusa would pay at least one direction of shipping, nothing like that. I can play a roundtrip shipping and I can pay an hour on top of it. And so that's $254 for them to take a look at it, see if it's a warranty claim and maybe fix it. There was an email that went with it that said it's just don't know how many hours it would really take. So just the price of one. So $254, that's an absolute minimum. Don't feel great about that. I got back with the folks in the chat room. Andrew Walpole was saying, well maybe in fact what you need to try and do is find somebody local in Albuquerque that could repair these things or understand it and so forth, these 3D proven systems things. Guys that do 3D stuff. In fact I reached out to 3D proven systems using their web based contact thing. My name is Dave Ackley. I'd like to introduce you. Now they had a list of manufacturers and Prusa was not on their list of manufacturers. So that didn't seem like it was too encouraging. In fact I got mail back from Lance Detmerce, a very nice guy, some technical part of the company. And we had a little chat in email over last week that sort of boiled down to yeah they don't really do Prusa stuff that could probably look at it because printers are all fairly similar but then they're going to $125 an hour for repairs in the US. So that didn't seem like something I wanted to pursue immediately although I really felt good about Lance Detmerce and 3D proven systems and he's spinning off a Route 9 company that's actually going to be focusing on contract 3D printing which in fact could use at some point. So that was not a solution although it ended up feeling good. So the solution, the next step was well let's just drag the printer in to put it on the bench and see what we can see about it. This is what it looks like when you take the steel spring steel bed off it that's held down by magnets. I was really suspecting this area in the back where the cable connects to the print bed. I mean this print bed slides back and forth to change the Z component of where it's printing and so this cable which is wrapped in textile is flexing all the time and so I took a look at it. I also was flipping it over and taking a look up underneath at the bottom. So this is looking up at the build plate from the bottom. This is the same old capped on tape that we saw when I was doing the reflow soldering myself. So this in fact right up underneath here is the thermistor, the heat sensor connected to a cable that's going out through that cable in the back that we're getting urban temp bed about that for some reason either this thing isn't signaling or the guy at the other end isn't hearing the signal. This looked fine to me and it's not like I was using any kind of weird plastic that's extremely high temperature that might be degrading the adhesive on the capped on tape PLA not that hot. So this really looked all not terrible which once again reinforced my notion that it was probably something to do with that cable connection. I looked at it, I found the screw holes at it, I went and I got my socket wrench and I unscrewed it, I took the bottom thing off and just took a look at it. So what you end up seeing you see these two lugs those are connecting the actual power lines that are going to the heater that takes a lot of current to just heat up the bed and then this thing that looks like basically a regular zip cord is presumably the two wires for the temperature sensor because it's the only two other wires that were there. Now when I opened this up it did seem to me like the cable was kind of tight and I couldn't really find out what was going on up this cable up the textile thing because it was held down or hot glued or something I wasn't entirely sure but when I decided to just close this thing back up I tried to ease the cable a little bit, you know, cram a little bit more of the textile and underneath the 3D printed clamps that I was screwing up so that maybe it wasn't pulling so much on the thing.  So now this was a reel of the prusiment that was almost out anyway so I thought well what the heck let's just give it a try see what happens and in fact it started out printing fine which proves nothing. When this thing gets erm in tent bed it could be two hours into the print it could be six hours into the print. So the fact that it got through the first ten minutes was nice but it didn't prove anything. But we were running out of the filament so I was going to have to change it so I got this roll of old silver that I had lying around from before because I really didn't want to blow more of the stuff that was matched to what was going to be in the cases if I didn't believe this was actually really going to work. So I paused the printer when it would get to the end because once again I still wasn't going to trust the automatic film changing system. I put in the new stuff, I did the load filament thing, I got it pouring out, half you know Mr. Twizzle, black color ice cream, half black, half silver and I thought everything was fine. I thought I was going to be able to go back and continue with these guys that now had a front black plate and would have gray behind it. It would be cool. No, for some reason it decided even though we had already loaded the filament and said it was fine it decided to poop a bunch more silver on top of the thing when it went back to fix it. I tried to pull that stuff off to see if I could keep going but no way and in fact I had already knocked one of Pinocchio's shoes out of position anyway so this print was ruined but not because of mint temp error. So I said well screw it let's just get the real stuff and put it in and see what happens. It's only money if I have to go buy more of this stuff and I started up a regular print and lo and behold eight hours later we had three more cases. So that was good. I did a few more goes. I got another few more sets of three cases. I felt like you know hey I have the healing hands. You know put it on the thing it's fixed. Yeah no after a while though it started to die and this one died early. The one that broke my heart was this one which was you know easily six of six hours into the print over halfway certainly through the thing before it died and so forth but nonetheless in this whole process because I didn't really have anything else to do I sort of have developed this whole superstitious procedure that I do every time I'm about to start a print I lift up the base. I push on where the capped on tape where the thermistor is in case it could have gotten early back down. I untrap the textile cable from the heat bed which gets caught but between that the control unit on the side there and the extruder. I loosen that up and I spread it out so it's more evenly back instead of being up bent so vertically at the joint and in fact that in that process I've learned that you know a couple of times when I did that I created an ER Mintemp bed which just served to convince me that yes that's where the problem is. It's in the cable connection to the bed but since I developed this superstitious process eventually I got really lifting up the thing and touching that thermistor because it doesn't seem to matter but easing the cable at the beginning of each thing I have not had a failure again an ER Mintemp bed failure since then and in fact we are now getting to the bottom of that reel that I started in this was a picture just from an hour or so you might occasionally hear the printer going in the background it's finishing off that roll as we speak. The net result is we got a whole another box of cases out of this so now we have three complete cases that's 36 in a box that's 108 cases we have another 24 of the older style that takes the socket cap countersink that puts us up at 108, 128, 130, something if we can get another box through or even better two boxes out of this thing we will have enough cases almost surely so that's the 3D printer story I hate not having a proper diagnosis for these things but there it is moving on the bill of materials yes so where we left off there was we had gone through this whole thing to get the P8 and P9 headers Beagle Bone Green we'll connect to the circuit board with had decided to go to AliExpress $43 for $200 with free shipping which I hate because it's not guaranteed any kind of fast could have been 23 days but in fact last week it arrived in LA and was expected to be delivered this past Thursday it arrived in Albuquerque it was not on Thursday but magically got rescheduled for Friday and it showed up Friday here it was once again $85 to me but if you look on the cover what this says is $5 value I hate this stuff and there it is there was not a lot of packing in along with the bags of connectors two bags of 200 connectors and then box and I think some of the pins actually that were crammed a little bit in the edge I'm happy about that but I think they're all usable so we'll see and there they are and again 200 pieces 200 pieces, 400 total takes two per tile that means we have capabilities for 200 tiles right there and with that the bill of materials for what needs to be soldered on to the board is complete we can go whenever we get an assembler that will work with us so that's quite milestone even though there's really nothing to show for as far as what works soon I hope in addition to the tiles we also need the intertile connectors we need a whole lot of them previously I had modified it to put a little the series resistors in the middle all these problems with oscilloscope noise and analog noise that turned out to be mostly just my brain damage I went back and I cleaned up the design of the intertile connector this is the 3D rendering of it this is the circuit layout circuit of it I like this layout much better I cleaned it up in several ways really I'm getting a little bit more confidence in this now that it's almost the end of the road for needing it at least in the T2 and I ordered 9 of them from Osh Park the idea is we'll get these quickly we'll check and make sure they're okay and then we're going to try to do an order for hundreds of these things from somebody probably in China we shall see to simultaneously make the circuit boards acquire the parts that go on it which is just two female connectors solder them all up and send it back to us boom in one go that goes and the boards in fact have been sent off to the FAB and we'll see them probably before I talk to you again that's the logistics division there's yet more May 9th and 10th I'm going to be in Vienna giving this invited talk at this thing called the the pioneer pioneers 2019 the pioneers festival something like that it's mostly about startups European based startups and entrepreneurs and so forth there's lots of speakers of which I am now one of them that I was invited and I'm hoping that there'll be a good excited crowd and we can spread the word about computation 2.0 about living computation about there is another way coming down the road literally for most startups but hopefully they'll be excited to hear about it my friend connected me with these guys and he's going to be there as well and he's been there previously and says you know they're good crowds they're excited they're big crowds and so forth so we shall see Vienna May 9th and 10th alright yeah but there's also new software engineering to talk about and I'm calling them data worms you'll see why in a minute I don't really not totally thrilled with the name I would turn to our community out here for suggestions on names I mean worms isn't terrible but well you'll see alright so to introduce this story there is a video on my original channel on the Dave Ackley YouTube channel that's now going to be 9 years old I'm sorry 8 years old going to be 8 years old this year from 2011 asymmetric diffusion of bonded structures in the movable fuse machine what the heck is that well so you'll watch it and what it is is these bunch of atoms that are connected by little lines and they wiggle and they move and they go around and when they get over here the yellow thing the yellow thing tells them to go down and the white thing tells them to go west and the green thing tells them to go north and in general it's kind of like a worm that that wiggles around and it can be directed to do things now one of the things that comes up this is a action shot from the middle of that video where so you can see these these the balls are these atoms the lines are these bonds between the atoms and this particular molecule has now gotten stuck it's gotten hooked on to the edge of a pointy little bit of wall or something like that now eventually this thing popped free and it kept on going so it was alright but this is one of the fundamental problems of the whole idea of bonds and the early versions of the movable fuse machine had this idea of bonds that you could have atoms that were aware of each other and wouldn't get too far away built into the low level engine but when we went to more recent versions of the movable fuse machine although more recent is like five years ago now we ditched the idea of bonds because it seemed they were too specific and we didn't really know what we wanted out of them so you don't see any of these lines in the movable feast machine simulator today and that's because bonds are not built into the underlying architecture you know you could the bonds are implemented with software they're basically a doubly linked list each atom in here remembers the site where it saw the guy who's downstream of it and the site where he saw the upstream of it and everybody agrees that when anybody moves you update the site numbers of the guys that are pointing at you and the guys that you're pointing at to keep the consistency of the list going and that's how bonds work in this past week well actually it goes back a couple of weeks into the wall of science period one of the things that I was working on was how can we get big things to move asymmetric diffusion of bonded structures has been a concern for the movable feast for years and so we had these big cell membranes that they kind of moved and so forth and that we had the 2D printer that had lines moving through it swap lines that would move through it that would kind of move a whole big 2D structure step by step one of the things I realized in the last week was that if you took the idea of a swap line where you waited until everybody caught up with you and then you moved one step and you boiled that down to a single dimension swap line so now it's just one atom swapping along a line it becomes very simple and so let's look at it hello alright here we are so now here let me get a look at this guy alright well what happened here so this thing is an s-worm he's got a bunch of types green means he's the head red means he's the tail this light green means he's the body and these blue things means that these are temporary structures that are being passed through from head to tail so if we do an individual event here like this guy can I do him oh I guess we're too close to the edge we'll just let it go automatic it'll be quick but you'll get the idea there so you see what happens every so often the head moves to a new site leaves a blue behind it and the blue gets swapped all the way down from the top to the bottom and when the blue swaps with the tail with the red guy it just gets consumed so the net effect is is that we get these little worms that are moving around at this point it's just moving randomly I mean did everybody still have that snake game or was that just from computers when I was a kid where you drive this worm around and you eat the little stars and every time you ate a star so you know this guy wound himself into a circle and the old game of snake right that means you lost that guy and that's what happens here and that's just inevitable in the sense that the whole idea of this thing is rather than using a bond that fills empty space you use these temp atoms that keep track of where the guy is by keeping track of where he had been and so if we have a bunch of these guys they will all go running around and the S worms they kind of stand for simple worms or stupid worms or something like that given that they're just wandering around randomly they wrap themselves in a knot where they can't get out rather quickly but we also have the B worm and alright let's just take this guy specifically we're going over 25 minutes but I'm almost done I'll show you what I wanted to show you oh that's a simple worm so well so alright so he's not gonna go anywhere let's get a B worm alright there's a B worm alright now if we put a wall around that guy alright now there's no place for the head to go because he only looks north south east west the simple worm just looks you see he doesn't even look diagonally because his structure isn't smart enough to do that because his next and previous pointers as a doubly linked list are two bits long it's just one two three or four which adjacent guy is upstream of you and which is downstream of you that's it but look what happens to the B worm now that when the head figures out it's trapped it builds a bridge yellow is the downstream edge of the bridge heading toward the tail the dark blue or black is the upstream abutment of the bridge heading from the tail towards the head and he escapes and so now he can get on out and go about his business and so on and you know the bridging worms the B worms they can get trapped too but they can only get trapped in a smaller number of circumstances if they're completely surround they can only bridge a single site now with with more programming they might actually be able to bridge two sites but it's a lot a lot more code and the code here is not quite as simple as I would like it to be but it's pretty simple and think about this once you know each of these things has seven bytes available one of these worms has 112 bytes of unused space that they could be carrying a hello world a string a number these things could meet up with each other and do arithmetic as they pass along each other you could compute with the data worms and once you have the bridging worms you can do things like these don't have to be 16 segments long this is just the particular demo that I organized you could make circuits you could have that circle circuit lines that hop over each other and go on about their business you could use this as a basis for much more understandable evident computation going on intracellular intracellular sending queries out and so on I had previously had a routing demo where we just sent around single atoms well what good is that we could redo that routing demo I would like to I haven't got the time that you would use data worms as passing through there so again we could be trapped we could be transmitting non-trivial payloads alright so this I'm very excited about it's you know really incredibly simple and that's kind of the point it's meant to be a basis and it's really a spatial doubly linked list and that's it simple I mean if you blow hole in the middle of one of these guys you know they're not designed to be amazingly robust they know more or less how to clean themselves up although it can take a while that guy's still been rolling around out there and so on and so I built a little track for these guys to run on imitating the 2011 video where you know green means go north and yellow means go south and so on and so forth you know it takes a while to go but I have made a time travel video that shows it happening much quicker where is it here it is like that this is going to start going faster and faster and faster I don't know if we can hear anything on the sound the pitch of the sound is reflecting the air the number of events per second which is kind of a reasonable thing to do okay at a time lots of developments happening hardware, software, all of this stuff the next update will be out in a week that will be the 26th T Tuesday update sorry this went long was it too long I think it had some good stuff in it I'm kind of getting excited about the whole thing coming together a little bit more I hope to see you next week