ict, knowing that those meetings happened in which us members of the council were listening to feedback from the APD. We have counselors such as Alicia, who has spent an enormous amount of time working on issues related to policing that was not in the room for those discussions and that was her choice and I'm not. What I'm saying is that's problematic because what we're talking about here is actually something I think much bigger and I feel that we need to come back to this discussion as a council I feel like we need to unpack what we learned when we were living in the community room at the police department, and we need to talk as a council about what we learned from our from the July 5th incident and we need to be able to express ourselves around that, that situation that occurred there and I felt that that was, while I understood the intentions of it, a bit of, a bit of being in dangerous territory, honestly, and, and I, and I had a lot of concerns coming out of it, and while I really appreciated hearing from members of the police department. I don't, I think that we need to create a container to do these things and to have these discussions, and I think that this is just a manifestation of that not being fully embodied right now, in terms of the council. Thank you. Pat. Thank you. One of the worst experiences I've had in this town had to do with something that happened at the senior center from members of the senior center staff and teachers who were hired in the senior center and it impacted a person I care a great deal about who is a black person. And I feel very strongly that we're missing something really important when we single out only the police, because we need to do this work in all departments and singling out the police and saying that it isn't a, and I appreciate this Alicia and I have, I believe you because I know you, the police department police departments have an incredibly negative reputation that is many, many places is more than well deserved. If we're honoring that there has been work done in the police department, there will be continuing work done on the police department, then let's honestly and openly begin to look at the other departments that we think are so wonderful. When I know they're not even as a white person, I know they're not. And, and stop saying, oh, we're stopped saying that it's got to be the police first. I'm here with Michelle that we need a container or a place to really begin to sort out both our interactions in the last few few weeks meeting with the police department and sort out reactions and implications of the July 5th meeting that many of us felt incredibly uncomfortable in stating. So it's not an easy thing, but I refuse to at this moment include one department, but if we're going to do that then make it the senior center. Thank you.   Yes, so, you know, I can I can speak for myself. I would say the same thing, regardless of whether I had spoke to the police department or not. In terms of that this lens should be for all departments. I'm not looking at this and responding thinking that the police. You know, we cannot call out the police or any other department. I do believe the police are different. They carry guns and have a rapid reputation as police in general. And they can, you know, they have law over human beings that other departments do not with that said, I still believe that this department has is probably at the top of the the trainings that are going on. And there may be, you know, some that are speaking and saying what they're saying because they have talked to the police. But I think as counselors it is our responsibility. We were voted in by the the broad community here that does include the police department and we should really be able to listen to anyone, regardless of our stance or position. I would I would like to give us each more credit that I don't think that we're arguing down a point and because we have done our duty as counselors and speak with our constituents and residents. I think that if anything, what about departments as as have just been pointed out that aren't having this lens brought to them. You know, it should just be across the board or we're, you know, getting into the weeds of again the probably the most overpolice police department in terms of what their training is. Alicia. Thank you Lynn I just wanted to make a statement and response to what Michelle said and just to make it clear that I did not attend the conversation with the police department because I didn't notice that there were two times offered. And the first time that I saw on the email was conflicting with my schedule as was the other one but I just didn't see it anyhow. So my schedule just didn't allow me to be there. Otherwise I would have loved to be there. And so I am regretful that I did miss the opportunity to speak with the APD, and I would be open to hearing their feedback and how they feel and all of those things however that doesn't change my stance on believing that both of these sentences should be included and that both of them are very impactful.  The police as a department has such a different profound impact on the life and possible trajectory of someone's life than the clerk in the town hall. This really does because they are going out into the community to people's houses to people's homes into people's communities in the most intimate ways that other departments are not. And so that is why it makes sense not again not because I'm calling them out not because they're bad people at all. That has nothing to do with my decision or my thinking behind this or the implications in my mind of this sentence itself. But the it will have the most profound impact or it has the possibility to have the most profound impact because of the way the department is set up just because of the nature of the job itself. And because of the way that they're in interacting with the community, you don't have to go seek the police station you don't the police you don't have to go into the police station to encounter a police officer they are out in the community, interacting with people in their homes in their neighborhoods in the streets in their cars driving on the highway all around. It is a completely different statement a completely different process to be happening than when we're focusing on someone who is inside of a building that you have to actively go to to be in an interaction with them. Michelle. I just wanted to add that and I have not my intention was not to speak for anyone counselor when I talked about the listening sessions. My intention was to say that Alicia and I believe Pam didn't have the benefit of hearing from the police department yet. And with respect to what their experience has been, both professionally and personally, as a result of the July 5th incident. And so what we're talking around here a little bit is my interpretation is that members of the police department that professionally and personally they have been targeted and attacked and we can debate all day whether that should be the case or not. But that's how they feel, and counselors also in my presence expressed regret about ways in which we handled the incident of July 5th. So what I'm simply saying is that we as a council, I believe, and maybe I just need to ask Lynn to find an opportunity whether it's in a retreat, a mini retreat, or whether it's in a town council to unpack some of those feelings that were expressed to us by members of the police department, as well as some of the feelings that counselors walked away with. Because when I'm listening to Alicia right now and knowing that she was not there in that room it there's a disconnect in the sense that that information that what we as counselors learned in those meetings could potentially impact the way that we want to address this, I'm not saying that we should remove I don't I haven't come to a conclusion about whether or not we should remove I'm not beginning with Amherst police department but I can understand that there may be a council discussion around a shift in the way in which we may want to approach this matter going forward and I believe we need a container and facilitator because while I agree with Anika that any one of us should listen to our departments and to our constituents and excuse me Anika if I if I botched your words but I my my concern is that those listening sessions sort of came up in a very I would say organic way. They were not facilitated. And they, I think, left us out there hanging a bit in the sense that had Alicia maybe been in the room and learned and listened to some of the things and again I will not speak for Alicia. For myself, I will say some of the things that I heard were concerning to me, and so that doesn't mean I don't want to listen and I don't want to hear those things. But I feel like we need to have some sort of facilitated container to continue to have those discussions and do so in a way that really gives us all including the police department, the most integrity and respect. We all deserve that. Thank you. I want to say a personal thank you to Alicia for your last statement about the difference between the police department. In terms of going into people's homes and the intimacy of that. That does make a difference to me. In terms of how I'm looking at this. But if we're going to have that line about the police department, I would like to have your partial, you know, I think it could be boiled down to the clear sentence about the intimacy about the difference. And that's why we're focusing on the police department. Because otherwise I feel like whatever your intentions are, it continues to hit at men and women who feel attacked. And that doesn't feel okay to me. It really doesn't feel okay to me. And it's, there's so many things to say that, you know, so I could stay with that sentence. If we clarify the reason that we're saying that they're first, I can do that. I really, really thank you for bringing my attention there. We're going to take a five minute break and then we're going to come back and take up finance. Sure. I do think if we're going to do that, we, then we need to recognize that we will probably not finalize the town manager's goals until January 9th. I just want to be fair both to the council and particularly to GOL and just recognize that that I would like to go back to that other thought that we give people feedback. And even then, when we come back with the goals, there's going to be further discussion, which is what we just like we just had. Does this belong here? Doesn't it belong here, Mandy Joe. So at some point we're going to have to do what we just did because there's already conflicts and what people want in and what people want out. And unless we have those conversations in the full council. I can't, GOL can't even make a choice, right? And so we can't avoid this conversation, which is why I was hoping to get through at least with people's initial thoughts on what's here. What are you, what's missing? What's not what would you take out of what's here? What would you add in? Because GOL can't actually do its job until it's heard that too, I don't think. I'm going to hear from Dorothy and then from Andy and then we'll make a decision which way we're going to Dorothy. I am using a word I rarely use uncomfortable, very uncomfortable discussion about private conversations with the town council and the police department. I also was unable to go seven o'clock was not fine and it kind of the other time conflicted with a class when the police department. You know, yes, I support the police department and I said, and I understand their people with feelings but you know there are people in our community who are very upset who also have feelings, and they were not part of this conversation. And I think for the police department to only talk about what they feel and think and whatever it is just to the town council. Completely shutting out. I just feel that we're doing, you know, if I were one of the community people that was upset about July 5, I would be having an absolute fit saying, what are they doing. How do they have this special time to sit and talk down about their feelings. Nobody cared about ours. Nobody talked to us, the police department did not talk to them. I'm, I'm. Okay. Finish or we're taking a break. Right now. We will reconvene at 945. Lynn, I don't know if this is intended, but I see your mouth's moving and I can't hear you so I know we have issues earlier today with that so it's not. I was making a comment to Andy who suggested that we set a time limit on the meeting. Oh, no worries. I just wanted to make sure we weren't having the same earlier issue. As far as I know, we're not. Please turn your video back on when you return. I don't see how Pat could have turned her video back on. That's okay. Andy. I was just going to request to the council that we set a time limit tonight regardless of meeting getting through the entire list. I don't think that we're doing ourselves or our staff a favor by meeting again. Until a very late hour. I'd like to just set a time limit on each item. And I'd like that time limit to be five minutes and if we have to debate an issue then we may have to come back to it.  Yeah, so I just, I would be remiss if I didn't set something straight. We have enough division in this community to be, you know, having members of the council spreading this truth. The police department did not reach out to council specifically to want to talk to us and only us. And one of the things that we learned is how they have an open door policy, and they can speak with anyone. And where I understand the, those that were involved in the July 5th, they have feelings and there may be some that would, you know, might say many things about us as a town council speaking with the police department. However, the police are residents there constituents they voted us in or not, just like others and again, regardless of our stance or position, if we cannot be bothered to listen to people and are we actually saying I mean we sat through many meetings and though we did not as a council. And for many reasons, because youth and other reasons that we did not speak directly with those involved within the July 5th incident, we were certainly made ourselves made it known that we would and that we would be open. However, we did not extend that to the police department and I think we have a bigger issue. If we cannot speak to members of this community and the departments.  And again, I think that unless as Alicia had pointed out and Pam, if you had a reason to schedule conflict or for whatever reason, you were not able to attend. But to not speak to members of our community because you're concerned of what a community member may think of you. I just, I don't know where, where are we, why are we here. Again, this is not about your position or stance. But what are we actually doing. If we will just isolate people like that we won't even listen. Mindy Joe. Anika said it better than I ever could. Thank you, Anika. Going on to finance. Could you please scroll it down so that we can go all the way. Look at the whole thing at once. This is the finance objective. It starts up to ensure the town's strong financial and physical health by hammering. There's no sentence of that. Number seven, ensuring all user fees, et cetera. Consider and cover the cost of providing services efficiently. Because you could create all kinds of services that aren't needed. And then you have to pay for them. So I would just try to focus it on being efficient. Okay. Any other comments on finance. Kim, do you mean efficient provision of services? Okay. Just because you can't assure you efficient. So I'm just, what you're saying is you want the efficient. Okay. Okay. We're going on to go to council policy. Oh, I'm sorry, Michelle, did you have something on finance. No, on council policy implemented. Okay. So we'll deal with climate action. Michelle. Okay. So you're going to go one by one on these. I think we have to. Okay. Then I'm going to put my hand down. Okay. Pam, Rune, you have your hand up or not. Kathy. I have typed up comments so I can also send them in, but just to go through, I have no problem with Richard here. I would just tighten it up. I'm not sure on the first one where we say, this has to be all done in one year. So on waste, all our bylaw and us, and, and plans to implement. I would change it because it's a lot, a lot to go from how are we going to do it to actually award and implemented in terms of it for talking about it, a one year goal. And so I would just edit that down. Then on the second one, wait, I just really want to stay with climate action. Okay. I am, I am on climate action. Oh, second one. I'm on beat. I'm, I'm, I'm extremely focused. One beat. I'm, I'll try to be quick. So the second one. So my understanding based on this past year, we are at the point where we could actually implement. So instead of make substantial progress, I, unless someone tells me, can't we implement community choice act. Could we make that, is that a do a feasible 12, within the next 12 months, it looks to me like we have most of the pieces. We can see Anna will jump in here, but I would just like to come up with a specific list instead of saying purport per party, da, da, da. And, and we could say such as, and we come up with a discrete list. I don't think we can put everything, but, but a few things that we think are doable there. And at first to make it a footnote on this, including the following, but I think we do we mean every single thing that was priorities, or do we want to pick out some, and I'm not in a position to pick out them. Okay. Just on the first one, the supporting appropriate committees and staff, I would just modify that to supporting TSO regarding adoption and staff regarding implementation of a waste hauler bylaw. Because we've referred it to TSO so that's really the committee that needs support for adopting the bylaw. Well, it comes back to us after it's written really well, right. It's really TSO, like, it's really CRC that needs the support for rental registration, not necessarily the whole council, right. I personally think that the specificities not needed, and you never know when you might have to bring in another committee for something, but I hear what you're saying. Could we then maybe just say supporting work towards adopting and implementation, implementing a waste haul, something like that to get rid of committee reference at all, something like that. I can even word it, but yeah. Anna. I think that Kathy, I hear what you're saying on the third point. I'm curious if it would make sense to God, I like don't want to say it. I'm adopt what ECAC had written in terms of these are what they had prioritized for the next year. Instead of, you know, I guess, as there's a clearer list for what's been prioritized for fiscal year 23 and 24 but as of right now I'm not super clear on whether we met 22. So I think that there's, there's a little bit maybe to reassess there and one of the things that ECAC talked about prioritizing one of their 10 was creating a database to track that transition, which would, you know, make our jobs going forward but I guess I'm not convinced that the things that were prioritized for fiscal year 23 and 24 are necessarily the same that's a cross check I'd have to do. And I might ask the council to consider taking the document of 10 items. Maybe I need to do the cross check first and come back to you but otherwise I think we could take the list of 10 items that ECAC said were the priorities and and adopt those as the fiscal year as the next year, excuse me. Goal items. So, Anna, I have a great deal of respect for ECAC but I really would want the town manager to weigh in on the feasibility of those 10 and which are the priorities before we write it into goals. Okay, I think top priority. Excuse me feasibility. Yes, I have concerns about, you know, whether going off of this list to find things that would be an additional priority because it's good, especially because you know, their staff included on in this process as part of ECAC. So, I think feasibility would be a discussion to be very interested in and I think that that applies to all of these goals not just the climate action goals. Absolutely. Okay, any other comments on climate action. Mandy Joe you have your hand up. No. How about community health and safety. Michelle. Yes, I have a couple comments. So, on November 14, we passed a larger motion and then a couple other motions in that larger motion we, which was number two in that motion. We agreed to begin exploring the resident oversight board. And it seems that that should be added to this category in vote number three, we agreed that we would review and update APD policies and protocols. And it seems that should also be included. I'm not sure whether number four, which was to continue to develop protocols for crest regarding active engagement by community responders that may already be covered in a of this. But certainly the resident oversight board and the policies and protocols, which have already been agreed upon in our motion, I think should be added to this section of the implementation. Okay, I'm going to show you have your hand up. I'm going to request deleting section B of this the strategizing a plan to create a youth empowerment center. Delete that. That's my request. Okay, Kathy. I agree with what Michelle said about the oversight board and the issue when I was reading through these, we have racial equity and social justice and DEI and I would have put it with that. But, but I, I didn't know where to put it, you know, be since we've assigned that it fits with health and safety, better than it does. racial equity and social justice. But when we get down to that, I may be left with just one thing there. So I was wondering whether we want to collapse. Because I'm, as I said, I'm getting 13 different areas. So, we, when we get down to that. But I also thought that the empowerment center didn't fit here, but the police oversight board did. Okay. One other thing just on Chris, we have it in the finance guidelines, but we have a continue implementation, but we talked about, we really want to that and tracking to me is a separate issue. You know, reporting back on the progress assessing the experience we really need your report once it goes live for a year. Um, so I was going to break that into two thoughts, rather than one long thought. Okay. Dorothy. I would not remove create a youth empowerment center unless we plan to totally go back on all the things we talked about for many months this year. Okay. I think youth empowerment belongs here because it's community health. It's related to that. I am okay with making it youth empowerment programming or. I mean, I think what we do need is what I'm hearing at least from many young people and parents, especially in BIPOC families is that there's a great need for mentoring programming programs. And resources, access to technologies, all of this to engage the young youth in a productive way. So, I guess all of that would be I just mean like center should not meet doesn't have to mean that we're going to build a new thing but like utilizing a space in town to offer this kind of mentoring programming and so forth so I really do believe that should be a focus. I think it belongs here because it's community health. With regard to the youth empowerment center. There were other better words maybe in the motion and that would be what I think we need to pick up Kathy Dorothy. Okay, then we're going on to economic vitality. I remember when in our first term working with Paul through these goals and he would ask us you know in terms of the smart of like is it measurable is it. And so, what, how would we make these measurable and actionable and like, is it too broad and is it, you know, how would we. Yeah, how would we measure. Paul did you want to comment on that at this point. Yeah, I think that's a really good point because I do look at these in terms of how would I report to you, whether I've achieved your goal or not. And actually I don't say I shouldn't say they're your they're our goals because I think this is will be a conversation as we move forward. When they're broader like that it's easier to sometimes when they're very specific it's easy to meet right, you know, did you do this yes I did, you know, a plus, never a plus but you know, especially from Hampshire College you don't get great. But then, but sometimes when they're too broad, it's sort of like, well, did I. I think the clarity comes from what you envision what it means to achieve this. So, hearing you articulate what that really means is helpful. It doesn't have to actually be put in words necessarily precisely but understanding what that looks like to you and that can happen either in this document or in a conversation. Either way, so I understand more about what you're talking about. So just a comment on that question Chalani for instance under three be facilitating zoning by us. We just did a serious. We look at first look at the revision tonight come back next week for vote. And it's all about supporting our businesses. So, to me, that's the kind of measurable thing staff worked hard on it and they came back to us. Just an example, Anna. You said that like you're kind of tired of me raising my hand one. I'm sorry. Never mind. I was just asking you. So, I agree with Chalani that, you know, I mean, if we're using the smart criteria we are we, this is going to be ages. And I recognize that there's benefit to breadth in the goal and that first goal is a little bit rough for me, in terms of it's very, very broad right so not that I don't think Paul would sale over the the the mark but I think that, you know, you could do very little and say you achieved the school and I'm not saying you would do that but it's possible so I would like to explore that a little bit more. And that's not a helpful directive to Mandy to take forward so this is me doing what I don't like doing and presenting problems and not solutions. What is not in here and I would like to just mention it is exploring the possibility of what it would mean, and maybe this goes under finances but what the financial implications of examining having a economic development director again would look like, what that would cost for the town I'm not saying do it but I think that it's something that we should be prepared to at least understand the implications and the need for and maybe you already have that because we've had one in the past but that's something that is not on here that has been discussed in the past in terms of economic vitality. I'd like to see in this section, some reference at least to strategic measure a strategic strategic planning with UMass Amherst college Hampshire college, because I think that I think that ties into the economic vitality. So if we can just reference it please. When you say that you mean around economic development. Okay, Jennifer. Can I ask a question? Yes. So that's different than the separate goals regarding like there's a specific section on part relationship with UMass Amherst college and you're thinking something separate than that completely. I think the specific one with the strategic relationships does mention economic development, things that would enhance the economic vitality and I'm and maybe we just talk about does it does that portion of it sit with the UMass strategic initiatives piece or does it get pulled out and and brought into economic vitality. Okay, but it could be that it sits and stays in the UMass section. For the sake of discussion, it's in the UMass section now. Let's just keep moving on the discussion, not where it goes, but that it's there.  I wasn't so honest that is looking at it. I do think we should revisit the economic development position. And I'm not quite sure I mean facilitating the review and revision of the zoning bylaws to increase and support economic development throughout the town. That seems like something for the council to this. Yeah, but let me just let me excuse me for speaking up. Let me just mention that when we did look at zoning bylaws in the first term, the tech the staff was very involved in pointing in the direction of which ones they thought needed some attention. So it can start either place. I don't think it starts one or the other. Yeah, well, I think it should. Together. I'm not I'm not suggesting it's not not necessarily comfortable with Howard. Right, I'm not suggesting it's not together. It's a two way street is what I'm suggesting. If you want language there that suggests that that maybe would make you more comfortable. Okay. All right. Major capital investment. Andy. Yes. I'm uncomfortable with creating an additional major capital investment without a prep more process and discussion in the council, specifically the last thing about proposing funding options for the renovation and maintenance of the track and athletic fields of the high school. It has another problem with it in addition to what I just said, which is that the Amherst Regional High School is not under our jurisdiction that's under the school regional school committees jurisdiction and the responsibility to maintain the fields is really a responsibility of four towns, not a single town. And I find the last piece then, and other locations in town is being somewhat vague and not tied to anything. And if you take the other out so that whole last section, I think is a concern. Kathy. I'll start. I'll try to build up and then I want to go back up a couple. I took that last piece and moved the talk about track and field to the part on infrastructure without a specific figure out how to do it but I made it part of our long term I think that in the long term capital plan we have, we've been missing track fields at recreational fields we've done vehicles, we've done buildings. So I just moved it out of this section and when we get to that other one I'll talk about exactly how, but I'm, it's not clear to me why we would start on a schematic design for the central fire station. But if we don't know where it is going to go. And so I would rather the attention. See if we could figure out where the two of these are going to go over the next 12 months. You know, I'm making this a narrower set of action on DPW and fire, because we, we've had them linked, and I was when we started to talk about the DPW building the other day, it seemed to me it was still the building that had been conceived a while ago when I heard the scale of it so I think trying to figure out the two pieces of land so I was going to collapse the two locations to try to see if at the end of this next 12 months we could say okay DPW is going to be here, wherever it is, and fire is going to be here. But I wouldn't start to design it before we know those two things. You can't do a schematic design before. And so and that's why it has comma, if appropriate. And then I just think it's too much and Paul is on when I think of staff they're on two building committees right now and two schematic design so I'm thinking of how plate fold the plate is. And this is something that feels like the first part needs to happen first, because we've got the same people on these, you know, unless you miraculously come up with some other folks to be on it. That's what I'm worried about that schematic design phase wasting wasting money if we haven't figured out the two of them. So that was just why I would remove it as a specific action for the next 12 months. Anything else on where major capital, Pam. Yeah, I would, I would second what Kathy just said that that D doesn't seem to be appropriate here. And then on F it. I was unsure. I think we've contributed money to the track and field. And I don't think we need to contribute more. The other locations in town is a totally different ball of wax and and I like the idea of moving it to infrastructure. That was a good idea. It really is the only one we have any control over is town owned fields. So that's we don't have control of the ARHA. Okay. Anything else on this one. I'm moving on to housing affordability.  I did. Pat probably has her hand up because I was going to say what she already said. So Pat should say it. Go ahead. Microphone. I would like to see this talk about prioritizing initiatives to create increased home ownership opportunities. And where is this. And access to safe affordable housing for low and moderate income residents. So both to increase home ownership opportunities for the, but also to make sure there's access to safe and affordable housing. In addition, I really wanted to say that we want to ensure the continued operation of a seasonal shelter. And while working on the development of permanent. Or facilitating the development of a permanent year round shelter. Okay, like that.  Yeah, I'm in response to what Pam Rene said way a couple hours ago about retaining single family homeowners homes for purchase by families or something like that you. Well, well, but I wanted to say if we're going to put that in, I want to put in that we need to add housing. Because we need more housing. And so the two go together and I so I would say. You know, adding housing for families and singles. Increase housing stock and homeownership. Yeah. Pam. Yeah, I think we could simplify it by just saying, prioritizing initiatives initiatives to retain and increase. I think the intention of existing homes is as much a strategy as increasing others. I guess it's increasing, not just for families in my mind. Okay. Oh, you're, you're talking about the first part. Okay, I've got it like split into three different now. Okay. Okay. And we don't see yours at this point. Jennifer. I think we should be in there because they're, we build housing for non families. I just want to be very, we're not at a loss for that. Okay, I won't speak out of turn, but I will speak after something Dorothy. I agree I was counting in my head and I think they have 15 new apartment buildings. Some of them may be suitable for families, some of the ones that we're planning, but families are not what has been prioritized in all of those 15 projects, which have been are in the process have been built or in the process of being built around town. So I think we need to talk about family housing. Thank you. Anna. I'm dangerously close to trying to define what makes a family and who gets to live a family home.  Anna, thank you. I don't need to say anything more. But source spot in my mind. Jennifer. I would, I know this is going to get some people's eye are up, but I call them non student households. They could be one, but we are not. We are build, we are building a lot of housing to serve our student population, which is fine, but we have not really built any or our non student households, whether that be one person or however. That is a fact that the statistics bear that out. Mind you Joe Dorothy, Jennifer. Dorothy, did you want to take your hand on Dorothy muted Dorothy. We can't hear you Dorothy. Sorry, I thought I did take it down so now it's down. Yes. All right. We're moving on to racial equity and social justice. Michelle. I just, I wanted to respond to Kathy's earlier comment. I actually have no attachment to this being here at all. I just wondered in terms of So I think you're right, Kath. We already have the committee. We have the support for the committee. We have the fund. We're moving forward. But it seems like for other items that were sort of in process working on that we do include it as like just a sort of frame of reference just to have it in there. I'm just wondering if you see some other possibility, maybe it's different language or it has a different place or something like that, but just so that it's not lost and forgotten that we are doing some really great work on this and that we're in process of working on it. Kathy. Yeah, I'll respond. Well, I think of the town manager goals as an action plan for him and staff, not a restatement of everything we've endorsed. And that's why I said I don't think it goes here belongs here it's not to say that we're not doing this but in the next 12 months. I don't see. And there will be a need for a lot of manager and staff, focus time on this there's a lot of committee work on it and there may be a lot of council time on it so that's why I wouldn't put it here because I wouldn't have any way of judging him on it. So I do. I mean I have a similar problem with housing affordability just on a, what do we actually think the town staff can do in that area that we would then hold Paul accountable for aside from, you know, the shelter and some of the things but I won't if it fails to happen in the next 12 months but that's why I didn't think it went here Michelle it wasn't to take it down as less there are a lot of things we work on that aren't necessarily town manager next year 12 month goals. But I, if, if the oversight board doesn't go here. We then have a high level race equity and social justice that only has one thing in it. So, so what I had put in there was the oversight board because that the DEI director is the one who's working on that. So, I'll let others figure out how to work on things structurally, whether we have a whole separate section on race equity and social justice or we hold it in, or whether we have a second thing because I couldn't think of a second thing other than the oversight board. I believe this needs to remain here we're expecting a very significant report coming from a hra. And if we combine these back into both talking about council and town manager. That reports coming to us it's been scheduled for a long time and a hra is working hard on it. So, I, I think it needs to stay here because it's going to be something we're going to be focusing on this year. Pat can hear pat it equity and social justice I would make sure I would like to see that the resident over the implementation of the resident oversight board. Yes, it's coming out of the I but it is part of the manager's work. And I think it needs to be there. And I also feel like that it is that the implementation or the continued implementation of anti racism trainings continue with the staff or, or however, because and and yeah. That's it for now. Hi, Kathy. Okay, Pat, please take your hand down we're going on to infrastructure management and maintenance. Anna. Sure, so I want to pull apart number six on the list a little bit. Yeah, I think the ministering wetlands permits is something that's regulated by by law and has been done with immense care by our wetlands administrator for many years I don't think it needs to be in here. And I spoke to. Yeah, thank you I was like the person who suggested it yeah. And we agree that the, the spirit of this is about really maintaining the conservation lands based on best practices for biodiversity and recreation. And I'm actually, you know, in rereading I'm wondering if there's ways to incorporate that under point four. So really this is about creating a plan for improvements and maintenance of, I guess, might, might cover that basically making sure that we are following best practices to ensure biodiversity of the habitat that we are protecting. Okay, Andy job. It was covered. Okay, Kathy. And I just address part of what I was going to do in that the creating a plan but I want to put the words, a multi year plant. Because I, and then improve and maintain and after recreational land I was put comma, including tracks, town owned tracks and fields or channel. We don't need tracks. I don't. Okay, so then just including town on own fields. So then the next one, number five. It said proposing a plan for town owned unused project I will. I didn't word this right but what I think we need to be doing is setting up a way to come up with a plan rather than telling Paul to just go out and get the plan so it might be an ad hoc committee that says here are unused properties so it was just a rewarding of this, I think we need to have this plan but I don't think the poll and staff and staff need to do it by themselves. I think this would potentially involves a few towns of people. When I'm watching a East Hampton and other towns say we've got these properties what do we want to do with them, and they're not talking to their town manager tell us what to do with them so coming up with proposing options. We don't have the plan to develop options so it's just rewarding that I did like number five a lot. Anna. I think, Kathy, I think field and recreation space are redundant to list twice. Yeah, I think recreation land is predominantly fields. So once we have it in there you think it's taking care of. I think it's, it's in there. Yeah, I do think it's taking care. That's great. So tennis courts and so forth. Absolutely. Yeah, but it encompasses fields basketball courts and so forth. I don't think we need to pull out fields I guess is what I'm, or add in additional language. What I was, what I'd like to see also in here is look at the re examination of the pedestrian infrastructure plan that was created by the Transportation Advisory Committee. Many years ago pedestrian and cyclist infrastructure plan, I believe is what it was called and incorporating that within the within the maintenance of our town roads. And in terms of the title. I'm curious about infrastructure and land stewardship as a kind of a mishmash of the two things I like towards stewardship a whole lot so that was a thought. Okay. I just want to tie together the fact that in the financial guidelines, there is a discussion of the fact that we already have some guidance for how to deal with unused property. And there has been a suggestion made that that guidance be referred to the Finance Committee for review. So, once that is completed, it is conceivable that we could begin developing a proposed plan so maybe we just need to modify the expectation but still keep in the development of a you know, begin the development of a pro of a plan for town road, the unused property, something like that. Any other comments there. Yeah, in the. No, I wanted here, because it ties to something that's in the financial guidelines. So it ties the two together. Any other engagement questions. Michelle. I had two items that were from our larger motion on November 14. The first one was the community visioning, which was number one in the larger motion and the second was create training for racial equity and the rights know your rights training. I don't know if this is, I think this is a good spot for both of those to be in but again, these were voted on the 14th, it's number one and number six in the larger motion, and it's community visioning and the training for racial equity, etc. The question will be to do that. Does it go here or does it go back up under those goals, but needs to go somewhere. Okay. Andy. And number three, several comments. One is that I think we have some youth programming, but not enough because we have the recreation department. It is doing a fair amount and I don't want to undersell them by saying that we don't have anything and then, which is, when you say implementing it's sort of like we don't have anything. And the second of all, I am very supportive of calling out consistent with prior discussions that this council and prior council has had the focus on BIPOC, but it's not exclusively BIPOC. There are other youths including low income youth who are not BIPOC, for example, who would benefit also. So I would suggest a modification of language when I could come up with those implementing youth programming in a particular that incorporates involvement of youth and addresses the needs of BIPOC and low income youth. Okay, Anna. Thank you. I'm very unclear on what number four means, maximizing the contributions of town multiple member bodies to the municipality. I don't know if there's any clarity on that one and then this is where I would really like to see the addition of a database to track the town's energy transition. It could go under infrastructure, but it's really about a publicly available dashboard to give visibility to the town's efforts and verify the completion of goals specifically towards our climate action goals. So I think it does, it could go under either but because the dashboard would cover more than infrastructure it should go under community engagement. Okay, Mandy Joe. I'm just going to recommend deleting number four. I think Paul for many years has said, how, how do I do this and also how to write on this. So I think we should just delete it is my recommendation. Yeah. Okay. Doing a great job gang keep going relationship to town council. Sorry, can I ask. I'm sorry, yes. I apologize. There's nothing about reevaluating charges on a regular basis. And so I'm wondering about that we've talked about some committees that have specifically tack that has requested kind of a re examination of their charge. I'm wondering if it's, it's a better, if it's better suited. Oh my gosh, I'm sorry words are not working right. I have no sense to say something along the lines of reevaluate as appropriate committee charges to ensure they are contributing to the municipality effectively or something like that. I like that. Yeah, it. But this is no calls. These are mixed council and manager. Yeah. Okay. Relationship with the town council. I mean to show you your hand up on. Relationship with the town council. Shorten its meetings. Okay, moving on relationship. I'm sorry, Pam. Yes. It does say very specifically long range goals that that's that's one of the contributions and yet we keep coming back to trying to to focus on your long efforts. So I just want to make sure that we're keeping that in mind. Got it. A relationship with the University of Massachusetts Amherst College and Hampshire College. I just want to make sure that the, I'm sorry, I didn't put my hand up. Manager. So, in the, it says executing robust strategic partnership agreements that word is very subjective. So I would delete it. Thank you, Kathy. Are you taking robust out. Yes, that would have us. I would put exact executing the strategic partner step and add that provide financial and community benefits to Amherst. We're looking for money, but you know, I must say if you mass or Amherst said you can use our fields we would like that too. So that they could give something in kind. So I just want to add what could be in these to it. And I want to make sure that we don't lose the piece that was up in the town council goals around state legislation regarding pilots. I also just, I love this goal and I hate this goal. The reason I love this goal is because I would love to see it happen. And the reason I hate this goal is because the town manager does not have control over the three higher ed institutions, and frankly can't make them do anything, except pay their water and sewer bills. And so I just want to be clear, be clear that I love this goal, and I hate this goal. Okay. We are done. No, we're not.  Yeah, I'm done flipping back and forth from my other screen so I forget to take my hand down it's down. Okay, Michelle. I have two questions. One is, and I maybe could talk to Mandy about this and gol but does this do the town manager goals need a bit of a cover memo that pulls out some of these more general topics we've been talking about like timelines like resources things like that so that's just a question to sit with. Also when I was gone did we do discharging of firearms. Yes, we did. Oh, good. Okay, so we had a first reading tonight or that was a first reading. Yes, and me and Mandy Joe got called on to fill in and perfect. And yes, we took care of it very right. Absolutely. Anything else. Jennifer. I feel that I need to explain myself. I will do this quickly. There's no. Oh, there is no. The point I was trying to make is that I think that the town is doing a good job of building housing like Olympia place spring street 11 to 13 he's pleasant Kendra place when he's pleasant sunset fearing LLP and the sunset fearing townhouses and the list goes on. They're all well and good. They are designed for students at prices. They are not being built for non student households, the price are out of reach for almost all student household, non student households, and every time a house becomes a group house that's a house lost to a non student household. And since we're not building what would be starter houses, we really need to address this issue of only building for non student. Again, households losing the ones that we have, and we're building a new elementary school, we're expanding our library, really for our non, you know, our year round population. It's a little out of sync to not be to be dismissive of or of ensuring that we maintain and expand housing opportunities for our year round non student households whatever you know term you want to apply. Because those, you know, are the people that will be sending children to our schools and using our libraries and supporting the year round economy. Are there any other comments or questions. Shawnee. Just clarifying commenting questions. So Jennifer when you saying that we're not building, we're building for students and we're not building for families you mean the developers, because the town is not building these right. Yes, it's not we when we lose housing that families and non student households were formerly living in. They're not being replaced with yes, so because the housing market, it's not profitable for them to. It's happening across the country to build starter houses that's not where the economic incentive is. So what you're proposing is that we add a town manager goal to incentivize somehow like allow for density in because the starter homes. They're not profitable for I mean this is probably a discussion and CRC. But it's basically, I think we need to, it has to be some kind of a priority to maintain and and expand our year round population right losing that. And for any community that's not a sign of a healthy community to be having your population decline. I just, I just mean to point out that it's not the town that's building them it's the developers right so what you're suggesting is that we create incentives for starter homes or homes for lower income or how do we incentivize people or developers to invest in homes for young families or individuals and so forth right. Probably another conversation but yeah there are hounds that might. It's another conversation, you know, limit. Okay. Thank you. Mind Joe. Thank you. And for working with us. We have no appointments we did committee and liaison reports last week. Mind Joe what else do you need. I have a committee report. Sorry, there's a new scene on there. Okay, CRC has set the interview date for ZBA associate member vacancy interviews for next Tuesday. We're in December right December 20 at 10am on zoom December 20 10am. Okay. Are there any other committee early liaison reports. Kathy, just very quickly, we are the school building committee is going to sponsor two forums and I'll say this again next Monday with dates and zoom but in case you want to put in your calendar. I'll put in your calendar on January 25 in the morning and on January and 26 in the evening they'll be exactly the same but it's giving people two different opportunities and at that point, the building design pictures will be up, including the outdoors, and we are expecting to have the cost estimates for the building the week before. Dorothy. So this JC is concerned that their goals be considered and we did discuss some of them tonight. The oversight board, the youth empowerment center. And just, you know, waiting to see those things come into reality. That's it. Okay, Pam. And on the dimension of the ZBA vote before that comes back to council with for us to approve the C the CRC proposal. It's very helpful to have in hand the KP law or some, some finding on which method of counting abstentions is going to be adopted or used in that discussion. Does that make sense. Yes, thank you. Andy. Two reports one finance committee is meeting on Thursday, as mentioned earlier, the three o'clock and the zoom meeting and there are three principle agenda items is one is to finish the guideline discussion based upon the draft that Kathy put together from all of the comments received. The second is to talk about a little bit further. We've started work on the real estate transfer be legislation, because it has to be proposed to the legislature by the council so we're trying to work on that. And the third one is a header request from the finance director to include on the agenda. A first discussion of the acquisition of the property that has been owned by the FW. So those are the three items. The other thing I was going to mention is that I am liaison to the transportation advisory committee. I usually don't report on it. But this time I'm going to real quickly. The committee feels that they have a lot of expertise and a lot of members who have built up a substantial expertise on the field of. Transportation and safe streets and. Related set topics and that they're not. They're an underutilized committee and they don't understand their role with the council and with TSO and so that they would like. To have more consideration given to how we want to define their role. And I think that's been presented TSO now is the logical place to go. But in any event I wanted to let the full council know about that. So thank you. Kathy. But just CPA on the liaison for them. And this Thursday they've already started to do their straw poll among the competing proposals. They have far more things than they can fund, but they're two great big housing proposals on it. So if anyone wants to just listen in as they try to figure out. It's they meet at six o'clock on Thursday and it will be posted. They also have a proposal that would partially fund the fields at Fort River and it would lower the amount that we would need to ask taxpayers but they they've got. A lot more money being asked for than they have money to allocate.  Okay, Jen, Jennifer. Yeah, so I'm the kind of absent council liaison to the Amherst affordable housing trust. And it's something we may want to take up in January but I really regret I have almost they meet one Thursday a month and I almost always have to appear or be at the TSO meeting. I feel terrible, but I have missed many of their meeting so I think somebody else should. I should pass that on on to someone who can be there more present. That's something we usually look at in January. Are there any other committee or liaison reports. No minutes. Paul comments. I will be doing state of the town addresses next week and as well will brief presentations from the library and the school and a very quick preview of the new elementary school is being proposed as part of the state of the town. Okay. That the meetings adjourned.


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