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Okay, madam city clerk that is mayor Tom Schwedhelm. I've got it as four o'clock. Could you please do a roll call? And I like to call this meeting to order Yes, councilmember Dowd councilmember oliveris here councilmember Rogers councilmember Rogers councilmember Sawyer councilmember Tibbets here vice mayor Fleming mayor Schwedhelm and And I am here and let me check as a councilmember Rogers here Okay, let the record show that all council members are present with the exception of councilmember Rogers All right. Thank you for that information. There's a couple of reminders for council If you're not speaking, please have your phones on mute And if you haven't been called upon that you're going to share some comments, please identify yourself And then additionally as you all have read the agenda if the meeting goes quickly and we get to item 13 Public comment on non-native items before five o'clock I will be recessing the meeting and I would ask that everyone stay connected and just put it on mute And then we'll do another roll call at five o'clock to finish the agenda so with that Mr. Rogers did that just sort of another beat Are you okay? Thank you miss it's councilmember Rogers Everyone's here. All right. We had no closed session items. No study sessions We just did the roll call No proclamations or presentations. Mr. McGuinn. Do we have a staff briefing today? Just very briefly There is a couple things in process right now There's a new face covering health order which goes to effect on 1201 on Friday morning The the health order is to stop the spread of corona virus locally The order states that people must wear a facial covering before they enter an indoor facility other than their home and In any enclosed space or an outdoor space where they cannot keep a distance of six feet away From others at all times cloth face covering should fit snugly But comfortably against the side of the face be secured with ties or ear loops Include multiple layers of fabric allow for breathing without restriction be able to Be laundered or a machine dried without damage or change to the shape staff is working to Get some questions because there are obviously Community and operational impacts that we want to to to be able to communicate very clearly I believe those those questions are going to be forward on to the county later today so that we can have a very full and Complete FAQ to respond to community concerns about the the new health order Additionally The Riaza de la Rosa have forwarded on a list of projects List of events and permits that have been canceled through May We're working with the June group. Some of those groups have already canceled their Events we are also looking at our entire operation as as you well know council Summary is a very busy period of time for us traditionally But we're in the process of evaluating What summer programs the city is going to be able to sponsor this year and how? We will be back to report out At a future meeting and that concludes the presentation. Mr. Mayor Okay, council any questions for the city manager on that staff briefing? Mary enough team and I'm sitting quick. We're in any cards on I'd be seven No card submitted All right, thank you. Mr. City manager. Did you have an additional report? I do not have additional report Thank You madam city attorney. Did you have anything you wish to report? I'll just report that we continue to work closely with a Sean's team with the operational team to support and further all of their efforts to address and and To mitigate the effects of the coronavirus pandemic Tremendous work being done by the operations team Great. Thank you for that report Statements of a stanchion by council members are there any council members that need to abstain from any of the items on tonight's agenda? There are none. We'll end to go to mayors and council members reports and I'm just going to go down the line Mr. Oliver's do you have anything you'd like to report? Nothing to report mayor Thank You mr. Sawyer. Thank you, mayor. Nothing to report. Mr. Tivots Nothing to report Mr. Rogers Briefly, we have continued to have our mayors and council members meetings once a week Where we're checking in with our colleagues from around the county What's been nice is each week a different member of our legislative delegation has joined us to be able to answer All of our questions last week it was Jim wood the week before that it was build odd So it's nice to know that our delegation is very very involved in what's happening at the local level We also had Sonoma County Transportation Authority yesterday from afar As you all know, we have been working for months to decide what we were going to do regarding a reauthorization of measure M We did not come to any type of a concrete decision other than to tell staff to continue to look at what that might What what that might look like going forward, especially with all of the uncertainty that we have and at our next meeting We will likely be giving the go or no go on whether or not we ask the public to extend that measure So we're still happening behind the scenes. All right. Thank you for that report. Mr. Doud anything you'd like to report Are you there? Okay, let's move on vice mayor Fleming anything you'd like to report No report. Thank you Thank you. Just two things I want to report on April 9th. We had the groundwater sustainability agency board meeting um Rather light agenda, but we were just uh, received updated information on the groundwater sustainability plan and the well registration program additional action will be taken in future meetings on those items and then the on yesterday April 13th the leadership council ad hoc had its first meeting to discuss State funding that the container of care received we did receive one written request From the community development commission the ad hoc chose not to take any action as we had information that we Needed to make our decisions and we did not have a representative From the community development commission on the line. So we'll be doing some follow-up on that now We'll report out to this group when we do have our next meetings So with that, uh, we have no minutes On to uh consent items and madam city attorney did you have some comments on one of our agenda items? Of the consent calendar? Yes, I do I'm going to ask the council to take some preliminary action before it moves into the Uh, full vote of the on the consent calendar Um item this respects item 12.4 12.4 was added to the Agenda after publication of our preliminary agenda preliminary agenda was published on april 2nd and in Are in order for the council to consider the item Given that it was not on the preliminary agenda The council will need to make certain findings under the council's Early council agenda policy. That's policy number 000-35 And that policy requires that all items that are going to be heard by the council Be published on an advanced agenda Published at least nine days before the meeting. So that nine day publication did not occur in this case The policy though Does allow the council to consider an item that was not included in the preliminary agenda If it finds that good cause exists to hear the item and the policy States that good cause will be found only if the council finds And i'll quote the policy That as a result of exceptional circumstances beyond the control of the council Compliance with a nine-day notice requirement Would impose a substantial burden on the city's ability to conduct its business Or result in prejudice to a private person The issue here was that after the publication of the preliminary agenda staff did learn That the that the applicant I'm sorry the Purchaser of the property Is facing certain financing deadlines and that Burbank faces an april 20th deadline for its freddy mac refinancing And that that financing is essential for its acquisition and improvement of the property To enable the properties continued use for low income housing We do believe that that those facts provide a basis upon which the council Should it so desire can make the good cause finding I also understand that jill scott is on the line If you have more if you have further questions about the circumstances That have arise And The finding of good cause Given that all council members are here today The finding must be supported by an affirmative vote of at least five Of the council members And happy to answer any questions or or or pass it over to jill if if you have questions of her Thank you for the information council any questions of the city attorney or miss scott Very none that I would entertain a motion So move the so you're here so move that the findings are adequate to move forward with 12.4 I Could you please repeat the second All right, thank you Ernesto making the second, okay, I'll do them up Let me just make sure okay, we have a motion a second. Are there any additional questions? Okay, madam city clerk. Could you do a roll call vote, please? councilmember dowd I vote yes councilmember alvaveras hi councilmember rogers councilmember soyer councilmember tidbits vice mayor fleming mayor schwedhelm That passes with seven eyes All right. Thank you. So we do have uh item 12.4 in the agenda. Um, mr. McGlynn consent calendar Yes, 12.1 resolution discounted evening employee garage permit item 12.2 resolution Temporary waiver of parking fees during covet 19 shelter in place Item 12.3 Resolution third amendment to the warped agreement to provide enterprise asset management system software item 12.4 resolution approval of the sale of 1289 martha way sanarosa apn 014-552-029 to gross men apartments lp Reservation of a public utility easement and authorization for the city manager to execute all necessary documents necessary To complete the sale right council any questions on the consent calendar Mayor soyer here. I do have a question regarding um The 12.2 on the temporary waiver of parking fees. My question is this there are I don't know the number but I am uh, it's been brought to my attention that there are potentially a number of merchants who have pre-purchased um permits for Very it's not necessarily the well for both garages and of the um the other parking facilities if indeed Those were purchased and there are still a couple of months or maybe even even if only a month um, how can we Fairly acknowledge their purchase at full rate of the Other parking facilities via their permit fees and how might we extend Once we are finished with this emergency How might we extend their use of the of the surface lots and the garages? Because of their purchase through the permit process Mr. McGlynn do you have someone on the line that could answer that? Uh, miss nadeau can you answer the question? Yes I think I might need some clarification on the question. So for those Uh Parkers who have pre-purchased permits We can refund Permit fees that have been paid per the month of april with the approval of this action We can refund permits that were paid in advance Uh, what they paid for april or future months Um, and that would apply to both garage and lot permits. We can also apply a credit to future permit Invoices in the future when we return to Uh, normal operations um, I'm not sure if I I one concern I may be misinterpreting your question But we have had questions from permit holders who are worried about losing their place where there there might be a waiting list So we're we're not going to be having anybody lose their Their permit right if they were had a permit in good standing at the end of march and we're we're not Our garages are closed and we're not charging for permits in april Whenever we do resume back to normal all those people who already had permits would be the first people who would be able to continue to have permits so I Hopefully I answered your question. If not, please please let me know I know I think Go ahead Kim could you first identify yourself in your title just for everyone's listening? Oh, sorry about that. Yes. Kim nado parking manager Things can thank you go ahead. No, thank you mayor. Um, so it um things may have changed since I used to have a parking permit On the surface lots Are there's how does one identify a current? Parking permit in the surface lots We used to have paper Permits that we that would change every three months. I think in different colors in the garages I never had a permit for the surface lots. How does one keep the Keep the the sense of validity During the next month are they stickers? How does how how are they kept valid? Well, there's no there for right now again, assuming that you were to approve this this This action There there will be no permits that are required or necessary all parking downtown would be free So there would be no need to display a permit during this period of shelter in place So once the um once the emergency is over And they have a um, I assume that there's some there's a display of a permit in one windshield Given the early part of april So they've been paying and have had to Pay for a permit through the month of march To extend would mean just would be just be one month. Is that correct? Once the once the emergency is over it would just be a month That they would that they potentially could have paid for And not have the value of because it's now free Would are there any are there any that went beyond like a like may june and july or is it only Is april the end of the potential for Having paid for something that they that the service that they would not be getting the service of We do allow Account holders to pay up to six months in advance So it is possible that there are accounts that are paid beyond the end of april But as I said, we will issue refunds Up to those who would prefer a refund or will extend credit So that for example if they paid for april that could be applied to may Or that could be applied to june if they paid to may so nobody will Be um paying for something that they didn't receive for the month of april I appreciate that I was I was sure that there was a way that you would Be looking for a way to make to to create parity with the with those that had prepaid And I I'm just wanted to bring it to the attention that I had received that request And I appreciate the response and that we're going to be able to accommodate those that have paid in advance All right, council any additional questions or other questions on the consent items Very men madams city clerk. Do we have any public comment on any consent items? Yes, we do have public comment and deputy city clerk manis will be playing those now Allison Thanks in appreciation to kim they do and her team for their attentiveness and quick action In relation to the employee parking pass program being discussed today in item 12.1 Although the dao is not taking a formal opinion on this issue Kim took the time to meet with and listen to business owners to figure out an option that meets their needs And will hopefully alleviate some of the issues they have been facing with parking downtown We are very grateful for her willingness to collaborate and the creative problem solving That went into this program. Thank you for taking the time to review this issue on the agenda Especially in the midst of the current shelter in place order Comment received from natalie balfour It is well understood and agreed that the parking downtown needs improvement As property owners of 50 old courthouse square This is something we hear all the time from our tenants and their customers We really want to thank the council and staff for working hard to find solutions to this problem Although it is clear how the discounted employee parking permit Will benefit restaurants and bars it needs to be pointed out that having the permit start at 3 p.m Will hurt businesses that are open only during the day Office and retailers depend on the availability of daytime parking for the entire work day We are hoping that the council will make a compromise in order to balance the needs of all the surrounding businesses Our proposed compromise is to have the permit start at 5 p.m Instead of 3 p.m This would achieve the goal of the employee permit without infringing on the office and retail users The proposed 3 p.m start time will definitely negatively impact our current tenants and their customers Every parking space used for a restaurant or bar employee During normal business hours in the garage will reduce the number of spots available to office and retail tenants Additionally, this would make it more difficult for us to lease space in the future Given there is an extremely long waiting list for reserved spots in the third street garage We can only offer the remaining spaces Given this start time will hurt the office and retailers Which are vital to downtown We believe that starting this evening permit at 5 p.m would be a great compromise If that isn't something you want to do we would ask that the third street garage be exempt from this resolution This is the most used garage with the fewest unused spaces All of the parking spaces are extremely vital to our tenants in 50 old courthouse square And the surrounding office and retailers. Thank you very much for your time and consideration Comment received from Sonu Shandy I am writing to share with you my support for item 12.1 on Tuesday's council agenda Discounted evening employee garage permit As a downtown business owner, I believe this will be very helpful to addressing some of the previous issues We have had with parking downtown By providing our evening employees with an inexpensive and safe place to park They will no longer need to utilize street parking Which will make more spaces available for our patrons and community members coming downtown in the evening hours Also, I think that COVID-19 will set a new normal Which may mean that we will need to be nimble to make further changes to the parking department So it can play a key role of its mission the economic success of downtown as a collective Your support for this program is greatly appreciated. Thank you Very good that That is the end of public comment on consent items All right. Thank you print back to council any of those comments generating any questions from anyone on council Hearing none, uh vice mayor Fleming. You have this item Yes, thank you mayor. I'd like to move consent items 12.1 through 12.4 and wait for the reading of the text May I get a second Who seconded? Okay, we have a motion in a second any additional comments Okay, madam city clerk. Can we do a little call vote, please? Yes councilmember dowd hi councilmember oliveris hi councilmember rogers councilmember soyer councilmember tibbetts vice mayor Fleming yes mayor schwedhelm hi Consent items passed with seven eyes Okay, thank you Not being five o'clock yet. We'll skip over item 13 We have no report items no public hearings No written communications So with that we will take a recess until five o'clock again council your options are stay connected on you Or rejoin at five o'clock and we'll do another Real call and have a clock and hear the public comment from non-agenda modems. Thank you meetings It down We'll be calling the meeting to order shortly All right, madam city clerk is mayor schwedhelm. I've got it five o'clock. Did you do a roll call, please? And we'll proceed with the meeting Yes councilmember dowd councilmember oliveris here councilmember rogers here councilmember soyer councilmember tibbetts vice mayor fleming here mayor schwedhelm And I'm also here Let the record show that all council members are present Thank you. Um item 13 on tonight's agenda public comment on agenda matters Madam city clerk, did we have any public comment on this item? Yes, we do have public comments submitted Deputy city clerk Manus will play the recorded emails and voicemails received official under control If we are expecting a huge spike in cases in the upcoming six weeks What's been the point of nearly a month of isolation? The county and city given the stats and our particular situation are being ridiculous A lot of cya going on at our expense and the choices of what's essential business Guns good wineries good craft stores good winemaking supplier bad I'm disgusted. I have always supported government officials But your behavior is turning me into a libertarian and I am a dedicated voter and not alone Comment received from jan aoki Where are we supposed to get the required face masks? Thank you Comment received on agenda item 13 non agenda items The following duplicate comment was submitted by alie barklow ben penn Don saxon Erica delight Emily albert Alex chrome We ask that you impose a moratorium on small cells and other wireless infrastructure permits process And deployment until the covet 19 emergency is over The wireless providers are using the covet 19 emergency as cover to expand and cement their rapid And virtually unsupervised deployment of harmful wireless infrastructure Our local leaders should not have to dedicate time and resources to policing Whether the wireless companies are following local and state law They have far more important things to do the FCC wireless permit rules allow emergency moratoria Homeland security guidelines emphasize that maintenance of existing communications capability Is the priority new construction is not essential The covet 19 emergency has led to a government shutdown of non essential activity Hospitals emergency response and local officials are overwhelmed And they must be allowed to focus on what is indeed essential Now is not the time to be dedicating resources to expanding rather than just maintaining our networks The FCC has directly held a local jurisdiction can impose a temporary halt To deployment and permits during the emergencies In the amount matter of accelerating Wiredland broadband deployment by removing barriers FCC 18 dash one one one 33 FCC rcd 7705 comma 7784 dash 7785 comma paragraph 157 2018 We recognize that there may be limited situations in the case of a natural disaster Or other comparable emergency Or an express or de facto moratoria That violates section 253 a may nonetheless Be necessary to protect the public safety and welfare Or to ensure the continued quality of telecommunication services Homeland security has declared that local government is on the forefront and can take control over determining whether the To temporarily halt all non essential activity Homeland security guidance documents prioritize maintenance of existing communication systems And do not support essential status for new construction See homeland security cyber security and infrastructure security agency identifying critical infrastructure during covet 19 at https From d. Cerelli With the situation in Sonoma county stabilizing why are you requiring masks to be worn? 175,000 people in Sonoma county 147 confirmed cases To deaths we have successfully flattened the curve And received from rich colorado been to dozens of stores and nobody sells masks So where can I get at least two? I'm 82 years old and my wife is 77 with dementia.  I'm 82 years old and my wife is 77 with dementia I just feel stupid asking where they are Received from daniel guinella union hotel restaurants john frenzel cattlemen's mark starks Starks reality restaurants Roger purée plan from lagar Sonu shandy from shandy hospitality Heather ham from legends benet belly and synthia kaufi from home run pizza As you may know existing law Mandates minimum wage increases of one dollar per hour per year for three years for smaller businesses And one dollar per year for two years for larger businesses The result of which is a minimum wage of $15 per hour at the conclusion of the stated time periods The state law mandates existing trajectory to a $15 minimum wage Are an historic set of increases that in and of themselves post significant economic and operational challenges Teetering on insurmountable for most if not all restaurants The city of santa rosa's vote to significantly Accelerate the state of california's timeline By immediately increasing to $15 per hour Minimum wage effective july 1 2020 Is repressive and poses an impending undue burden to already tenuous small businesses in the city of santa rosa in fact The california restaurant association C. R. A. Is actively working with the governor in an effort to delay the current path timeline To $15 minimum wage as provided in senate bill three past april fourth 2016 The c. R. A. Recognizes the untenable nature of senate bill three the city of santa rosa must recognize that as well And we send its ordinance to accelerate the minimum wage timeline effective july 1 2020 Restaurants have encountered historic and significant challenges here to for never experienced The fires of 2017 and 2019 the pgn at e psps power outages of 2019 and likely 2020 The pandemic of 2020 And now the minimum minimum wage increase of 2020 Few restaurants could survive any one of those blows It remains to be seen if any can survive all six Now is not the time to increase the burden on small businesses in santa rosa with the current COVID-19 economic situation at hand I implore you to rescind the city of santa rosa's minimum wage ordinance and leave the minimum wage to the state of california If our concerns fall on deaf ears, I fear that the city of santa rosa landscape will look very different And not in a good way. I look forward to santa rosa becoming a more business friendly city Thank you for your time and consideration Comment received from amy heflin How are they going to enforce the mask wearing will people be arrested for not wearing one? received from greg lucas Have you people lost your mind the flu kills one percent of the people that get it We've had two deaths in sonoma county out of 540 000 people Let me show you what that looks like percentage wise 0.0000038 This is what one percent looks like if you're sick or have an underlying health concern stay home You will destroy this economy if you thought the great depression was bad wait until you see what you've done I hope every one of you are fired because there'll be no tax revenue to pay you Get it.  Are you going to make a stay at home and wear masks? Each flu season enough is enough Comment received from jack osborn Like all people even then the doctor adjust their beliefs with great difficulty The problem is that they are concerned with individual deaths and are not considering the changing of the death rates Or percentage of death of the general population in the area Which causes them to worry about individuals It is only when the death rate of the whole population goes up significantly That there should be some concerns about the lives and actions of the whole population If the normal death rate in america is 1 per cent per year Then you would expect three million deaths a year and any significant increase would have to be 300 000 a year from covid-19 But that would not affect the death rate total very much because some of the additional deaths would have been from the normal deaths that occur each year But there must be something else going on here in the politics of the nation Too much money being made by the hysterical reporting of the disease I guess and the states are asking for more money from the federal side of the nations Someone is profiting somewhere and it must be in the political end of the economy Comment received from brianna paul cop Thank you for the dumpsters and hand washing stations. We are now at the point. We should have been years ago How's the vulnerable women now? I know several women who have agreed to sexual relationships for safety Due to lack of services People are suffering and will die because you did not act I am considering starting a youtube channel exposing the human rights abuses here Including video of srpd violating human rights abuses after they have agreed not to be To the public start doing your job to prevent this I don't want to be in the public eye, but I will if you keep torturing people Open the parks to homeless people srpd and western security violated the injunction the shelter in place order and the cdc recommendations by Continuing to clear Doyle and other parks parks are a vital resource to unhoused people and by closing them You have forced me and others to move more widely about the city and some have even left This is in direct conflict with the shelter in place order If housed people can't control themselves. That's your problem But western security and srpd should not be moving unhoused people and violating both cdc county state and judicial orders Along and the roads need to be unblocked for unhoused people who have nowhere else to go Except neighborhoods all around town potentially spreading the virus Comments received from erin reinberg I am ready to make a public comment for the city council 41420 meeting To add that the hearing appeals regarding prj 19-031 c up 19 dash 095 db 19-009 dr 19 dash 053 dr 19054 maj 19-003 For the burbank avenue subdivision be postponed until such time when these hearings Can be held as normal with full citizen participation Neighborhood members making these appeals Do not all have full access to the internet to fully participate in virtual meetings and the commenting process There is no need to rush these appeals and disregard key components of the brown act during the Shutdown as the appeal hearings are not essential and not emergency related Postponing until all shutdowns have been lifted so that full citizen participation can occur in a normal manner Ensures that the voices of neighbors are fully heard and appropriate decisions can be made Thank you for your consideration That ends our public comment all emailed public comments were Sent to the city council and all comments whether email and the voice recordings Will be made part of the archive record Council any questions For staff based on any of those comments None and no further items on the agenda I will adjourn this meeting our next center of the city council meeting will be on tuesday april 28th is adjourned


Inside theCUBE in a while to the home of Cloudera where we sit in siliconangle.com I'm John Furrier, the founder of Silicon Angle. I'm here with Chris Gladwin, the president and CEO of Cleversafe. Chris, welcome back. It's an easy name to remember, but it's a compound word that people have a surprising amount of trouble with. We're here at theCUBE. We want to talk about your business and some of the climate opportunity out there for folks and your customers and challenges. So first start off with what's going on with you guys in Cleversafe and what's the update on the company? Well, John, thanks for having me here. I appreciate it. It's a pleasure to talk about these topics. So the some of the latest developments with Cleversafe. At a high level what we're seeing is there's so much interest in cloud computing that it's really pulling through a lot of interest and awareness in cloud storage because obviously if you're going to compute you need to store. And that's just been really fortunate for us. Whereas two, three, four years ago it was just difficult to get awareness with these kind of issues in a broad sense. Now it's kitchen table conversation in a lot of places, particularly within the storage industry. It's a topic. So that's helped us quite a bit. We've recently had some pretty key customer announcements, one with the US intelligence community. And then we also just completed a big round of funding and internally we're getting a lot of traction and momentum and excitement. What was the round of that size of that round? $31.4 million. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. Fresh money. Yeah, that's important. For technology expansion, sales, marketing, any particular focus all of the above? It's all the above. I mean the stage of the company now is we're about five and a half years old. And we began delivering product kind of on a limited basis a year or two ago. And really the middle of last year is when we began deploying production larger scale systems. So from money point of view it's, you know, we're still kind of expanding the capabilities but now we're also from sales and marketing and all the other things that we operate a business for. We're here with Chris Gladwin from the CEO of Cleversafe. You guys are based in Chicago. We are based in Chicago. You don't have to be in Silicon Valley to be successful. You guys have been doing very well lately around storage, a different kind of storage and the emphasis on security. Can you talk a little bit about that aspect of your business in particular? Well what we saw early on and there were a lot of surveys that we had access to about what's important to customers. And in a cloud environment you're essentially giving physically someone else your information. So obviously security is a big concern. And that fortunately for us is something that we do well. So in addition to the capability of cloud which is flexibility limitless scale, things like that, you also have to do that in a way that's secure. And there's really three dimensions to that. The classic textbook definition of information security includes confidentiality. Means that the bad guys can't see it. It means integrity which means that the data is perfect to the people that should see it. It's no good if they can see bits and the bits aren't right. And then finally availability meaning it's always available to people that should see it. It's kind of an easy acronym to remember because it's CIA. And you have some clients that are government related. We recently announced a strategic partnership with Incutel. And Incutel is the business development arm of the US intelligence community. They work a lot with CIA. So we have to differentiate it on the slide. But really when we talk about information security we mean confidentiality, integrity and availability. And that's essential. It goes without saying but if you have a system data is the lifeblood of the business. It's the assets of an individual. Those things have to just be there at a very high level. It can't be compromised. It's got to be right. And it's always got to be there.  Obviously a lot of the clients are like the government and the CIA with the funding from Incutel. But as an entrepreneur life has some surprises. The world kind of spins your way once in a while. For you guys it seems to be the case where the world has spun your way with the focus on obviously the adoption of cloud and privacy and security. That being said what are you seeing out in the marketplace for the key trends and how security is one we'll dive into. But outside of security what are you seeing out there as macro trends in the marketplace? One of the macro trends is I would say the cloud thing. And there are reasons why they're driving it. You see this again and again and this is part of the cloud folklore practically about electrical power generation. I think their own that it became centralized and more efficient. It used to be that most companies had their own physical data centers. Now everyone uses common hosting facilities. When I was starting my career I was a network person. I did some storage work too. I had a large aerospace company where I was responsible for the networking and the storage products. And back then when TCPIP first came out we had TCPIP but it was our network. I mean it wasn't an internet. We had our own lease lines. So it kind of started out as a private thing but eventually it became much more efficient to have that aggregated as a public service which is just kind of aggregating a bunch of private needs into one thing. So the same thing is happening with kind of some of the basics of computing. Computing itself storage things like that are going through that transition now. And is that really kind of the whole focus of private cloud where IT has had their own kind of private environment in the lease lines as you mentioned in the old days. You're dealing with public infrastructure, HAA, public cloud. Just like you saw in the 80s with networking where those technologies came out they first were used for private networks within enterprises and then became public. We see the same thing happening even though there's a lot of visibility to public cloud storage most of the business today is private cloud. So that's mainly what we've been selling. It's private clouds that we sell to government agency bank, a big social networking site. That's mainly what we're seeing. Now definitely longer term public is going to be probably the larger segment of the market but today most of the action is private clouds. From your chair here or your office looking at the industry where are we with the whole public private cloud there's a collision course between the benefits of public what inning are we in so to speak and what are the key challenges for this kind of collision. I see everyone's talking about test ops and test and dev ops are kind of going to the cloud and mission critical but emphasis of production where the costs are heavier and scale issues are there. You get companies that have scale operations and they have to kind of move there. What are you seeing in the market for that transition? Well I don't ultimately see it as a collision. Like a lot of things it'll become both you'll take the requirements of public and private clouds and when those can both be met then it'll kind of merge to one. If you look at networking today and people still VPN all the time over the internet to make essentially a virtual private network on top of the public infrastructure you're definitely going to see the same kind of thing happen with cloud storage. We already have the capabilities to deliver public, use of public infrastructure but with the privacy, auto-vability, manageability control that defines a private cloud so you know a private internal requirement so it's already possible today to kind of merge those two things. Obviously very similar paradigm of the 80s with networking, seeing that now. So you have this converged networking landscape, storage guides, the networking guys and the compute guides, the servers kind of collisioning together. There's not a lot of talk going on around the compute side. It seems to be an abundance of compute. Storage seems to be the key linchpin in all the conversations whether it's a Hadoop, which we're in the cloud era's office here, to kind of industrial strength storage. And I wrote a post this morning called The Storage Cloud How is storage changing in that equation, in the conversion networking equation? Now I'll say it's more relevant. I mean data's not going away it's only getting bigger and bigger but latency is an issue, speed, application support multiple applications. How would you kind of summarize that whole dynamic? Is it a tsunami of change? Is it going to be something that's going to be slowly rolled in? I think cloud is a part of the first real change in the dominant architecture paradigm for computing since the 80s. When the personal computer paradigm really became the dominant paradigm. From a storage point of view where you basically had a hard drive and that primarily defined your data. As a local device it was associated with you as a person and it was typically in your PC. The internet delivered new kinds of applications but you still had your data as your own. Clearly we're going through a big transition where we're moving to a new paradigm and that's a big, you know, cloud is a part of that where you say now I want my data to exist independent of a particular device that I might have because in fact I may have ten devices. I may have a computer in my office, one at home, one in my car, different sizes for different functions so that answer has to become independent of all those devices I have my storage and that's my information and that transcends those devices as they come and go during my life which those devices always will the data persists. So that's a big driver to cloud storage that we see and that's a big shift. So a part of that is the cloud which is kind of the back end bulk store and then clearly what you're going to see local storage effectively just becomes a cache off that and you know for certain devices they'll cache a lot more stuff, you know other devices they'll cache less because they're smaller, more mobile but you know the net result application specific kind of scenarios right? Yeah but the net result is it'll just feel like your data is always there no matter what. And clearly that's something people want. They don't want this idea of well if I use this device I can see this and if I use that device I can see that and I've got to try to sit there and figure out what goes where. That's way too complicated. So that's a lot of what's going to drive that paradigm and that's a big part of cloud and then you look at you know the technologies of cloud, you know flash mobile devices, multi-device kind of lifestyles. I mean that's all converging to this new architecture. We're here with Chris Gladwell, the presidency of Cleversafe from MIT he's a geek, developers got hundreds of patents here on the solution. Question for you from your definition, big data. That's the big buzzword these days. I'll see data, big data, fast data, small data. Data in general, we'll get the Stratoconference next week which we'll be broadcasting live so that they angle the queue. What's your definition of big data? Big data, you know the, well let me first say that all the growth of data is big data. This is prior to 1999 most data, and when I say most data I mean cut open a random internet cable or break open a random hard drive and count the bits. Prior to 1999 most data was structured data like data in a database and the data type itself was numbers or text. 1999 was when it switched over and that was driven by digital music distributed over the internet. Which you have some history with. I'll get to that in a second. And that's when it, so image and audio data then cross 50%, so these large unstructured objects. Since then with the emergence of digital video, it's now in the 65, 70% range of all data is this big data primarily digital content. And then going forward, you know the longer you go out in time, the more it approaches 100% of all data. So you're still going to have structured data in a database, but it's just going to be a sideshow from a bit point of view compared to big data. So that's how we would characterize just large unstructured data objects and it's already dominating storage. I mean the internet is pretty much already turned into a video distribution machine and it's going to become just more so a big video distribution machine. Digital data is obviously big right now we see iTunes and you have a little history in it. Talk about your background and the folks out there who don't know the history you have with music. Which is the most popular digital asset out there. It is with video. It was really happening. So like you said, I went to MIT. I was an engineer and then I worked for a large aerospace company as a buyer of technology. Networking products, storage products. I did that for a while and then I switched to the vendor side where I made computer products and I did different jobs you know engineering, product strategy, marketing and then from there I started starting companies. And the first company I started was Cruise Technologies which at the time I thought you know the way to have a great company is to do something that's so hard no one else can do it but the reality is you can be ahead of your market and that was way ahead of the market. You know that was the 90's, mid 90's and we were making wireless thin clients like an iPad. And needless to say we were a little ahead of the market. A little bit a couple of years. So you know we ended up selling that IP and then I started a digital music company called Music Now which was the leading business, the business supplier of digital music services. So Best Buy, Clear Channel Charter, Earthlink. They had digital music services, download stores, internet radio, music subscription services. But it was just their brand and it was all us. We aggregated all the rights operated all the servers, figured out this penny goes to this guy and that penny goes to that guy. Micro payments dealing with DRM kind of. All the licenses and all that stuff. So you know that's obvious. It's complex. It was not simple. Yeah, it was, you know, there was a lot of interesting complexity. That's certainly one aspect of this technology. Back then that was big storage to store all music. Not so much anymore, but back then it was kind of a big storage system. Plus that rights distribution was extraordinarily complicated. More so legally and just the reality of getting all those licenses. That was remarkably complicated. Building a system to administer and pay them and audit and all that stuff. That was fairly complicated too. Let's talk about Cleversafe and your current project. Obviously you got a lot of funding. $34 million. No one's just writing checks. The guys in the street holding their hand out. It's going to be a significant amount of capital. You guys have a five year track record. Where did you get the idea that rate is dead? I mean, not the canned answer, you know, data is growing. You must have had some kernel of, you know, we're going to do things a little differently. The world's maybe different in vision. Talk about where the inspiration was and the idea behind Cleversafe's technology. Well, in my prior company music now we built the system to store all music. And, you know, we kind of experienced the state of the art as a customer. And honestly, I thought it was pretty bad.  I mean, it just was beyond me. Like, how can this be? How can this be state of the art? There's got to be a better way. A lot of my background in addition to storage products is in wireless products. And, you know, when you talk to a storage guy, you know, they talk about a bit error rate of every ten to the fourteen, every ten to fifteen bits on a drive. In the meantime, the failure, you know, of, you know, a thousand, a couple thousand hours or something like that. They have no idea what failure and bit error rates are compared to wireless. Like, when you're driving 60 miles an hour with a mobile phone and you're talking away, the amount of retransmission, drama that's going on, packets are getting lost. You're driving by a building with a steel wall, a connection drive on and on and on. And there are techniques, or like, you know, when a spacecraft goes to Mars and it's talking back and forth.  And so as a wireless guy, you look at storage and you say, they're not doing this? It's like a radio. Talk to each other, right? Yeah, I mean, you look at, you know, state of the art in storage with rate is parity. And, you know, maybe you have one or two-dimensional parity bits. And it's like, okay, that's great. That was like the sixties in wireless.  Now, the reason why this hasn't happened before has to do with Moore's law. Back in, let's say, 1990, 1991, a CPU was a lot slower than it is now.  So to do some extra math would slow things down. But things have changed. In 1991, you know, the average hard drive, for example, took about sixty seconds to read or write all the data on the drive. Drives have gotten a lot bigger, but they haven't gotten much faster. So now it takes somewhere around sixteen hours to read or write the data on a two terabyte drive. So now this trade-off, and meanwhile CPU's got a million times faster. And abundance, tons of abundance of compute power. Yeah. So now you can employ some advanced, you know, math is your friend. You know, and Moore's law basically is the cost of math. And the cost of math is a million times cheaper. So you can do some pretty interesting stuff without really noticing performance degradation or without really noticing cost. And so that kind of transition, that crossover from, you know, driven by Moore's law, enables these kind of advanced coding techniques for storage, which, to a wireless person, is like hard to believe the industry isn't already doing this. And so you had the idea. So you start sketching out some ideas, and you form a company around. Is that kind of how it went? And then boom, you've got a product, some patents, and... Yeah, you know. Well, having started a couple companies, one thing I wanted to do, which we did here, was I wanted the first thing, or as soon as possible, to sell it. Even if it's not built. Like go try and sell it and see what the reaction is. So the very first thing I did is I kind of wrote just a little very basic, long sense-replace prototype just to prove, okay, this is going to work. Alright, once that was done, the first thing I did is I worked with one of the other founders who also went to MIT as an interaction designer. And so she created what looked like a completely functioning system. Yeah. Was it a vase kind of thing? Behind the curtain? Yeah. So essentially what she did is she went to the Yahoo Small Business site and screen scraped every screen. And then pasted on there, like as a graphic artist, not as a developer, what looked like other menu options. And so we had both done a lot of focus groups. And so we knew how to pretend to be focus group moderators.  And we ran focus groups on what looked like a completely done system. And, you know, the things that we found were you know, I've done a lot of focus groups and you look for certain things. You look for unaided and aided awareness of the problems, people willingness to pay, satisfaction with alternatives. And data, and information, it's just off the charts. I mean, the value of storage, which really is your information as a business, as a person, is immensely valuable. And it's growing in its value. I mean, it doesn't depend that we are on digital information. So that's I mean, if you want to sell something to someone, they better value it. Okay, so that's highly valued. There was a great deal of aided or unaided awareness of problems. Like, oh, when my hard drive dies, my data is gone. And there was a very high level of dissatisfaction with the currently available alternatives. So you know, that's the combination. So you sold it, and it's like, let's go build it, and you did, right? Yeah, we ran focus groups.  So then we said, alright, now we gotta go build it. And building a disperse storage system, it's been, these advanced math techniques have been known since the 50s, and they've been used in other industries like wireless. And there has been some use of them in storage, not so much in the commercial world, but in incredibly secure environments like the storage of cryptographic keys or weapon launch codes or things like that, they've used these kinds of techniques before. And there's been a lot of academic work in these areas over 20 years. So it's been known to some degree but to commercialize it. I mean, just to give you a sense, so we had algorithms working in like 2005. The algorithms were working, and that's interesting. But, you know, a customer doesn't buy algorithms, a customer buys a system that can be installed and upgraded, tuned and managed and configured in value. And secure and reliable and fast. And so building that whole ecosystem around, you know, that, well that's, you know, taken us another five years. And, you know, we knew it was a long project, other companies tried, and they really couldn't get it to go through deep tech. That's not what the company, your company CleverSafe, so you got some funding. How many employees do you have? I think right now we have around 48. So you guys are growing? Yeah. So where do you guys stack up in the marketplace? So your business compared to others in terms of who you're competing with and then just overall approach to the business. I'll say there's different approaches these days. You talk to anyone in storage and, you know, there's a big opportunity with a lot of other players being taken out with acquisition. Everyone knows about 3-part investors and others. So there's a huge, big vacuum. Yeah, there's not a lot of mid-sized storage companies left. There's not even a lot of, like, bigger small storage companies left. What's the core strategy for you guys right now? Got the funding? Are you going to go out and sell on the differentiated features of it? Talk about that. Well, there's kind of two phases to how we're building this business. The phase that we're in now is a phase where just having a product that's operational and ships and finishes QA and all that stuff is part of the answer.  You know, they have a business result like they want the system to operate and deliver certain benefits. So...  That's the best validation you have. That means it really works and they want more. So we're really focused on that and then having that customer be thrilled. That they're referenceable, that they score you high in terms of customer satisfaction, and we really want to focus on getting that done, not necessarily with 1,000 customers, but currently with the largest most discriminating kind of customers, lighthouse accounts in our key market, and that's really what we're focused on for this year. So you're not seeing a lot of broad marketing where we want to have 1,000. We've got a lot of very focused execution. Next year is when we will say, alright, let's scale it up because we've done this enough that we can kind of bottle it and repeat higher sales forces and go crazy. But we can't underestimate that step and even though we know it works, if we stumble, so for example let's say we have the world's best algorithms and the install program doesn't work. And the customer has a problem and it could be some trivial thing in an install program. It won't matter that it was a trivial thing in the install program. The reputation will be honest after the work. So you just have to get everything exactly right and that's what we're focused on. How are you guys competing against the EMC's in the world, not the big players? The IBM, HPE, EMC, the big whales out there, and we're going to delve into that now. What's the story there? Well the closest competitor to us is the EMC other product called Atmos, and they're using similar techniques. They got a little bit later start than us, so they're not very far along in terms of the maturity of the product. But it's, you know, they're a smart company and they're on their way and they'll certainly work through these issues. And that's good for us. I mean actually we want them to succeed because it validates a comparable in the market. You've got to compare the benchmark against it. Yeah, I mean our issue is not, I mean we go head to head with them every once in a while, but mainly what we compete against in terms of an actual live customer situation is a customer that's thinking about building it themselves. That's the number one thing we compete with in terms of a customer. Sometimes they're looking at like Hadoop and some other stuff and learn it together. That's normally what we compete against. And that still shows that our issue is kind of getting the market going. Not so much, you know, A versus C versus the D competition. When we get to that point we've succeeded in kind of moving the needle, but we're still in the early stages. Chris Gladlin, CEO of Cleversave. Chris, thanks for coming on the YouTube. Question about the tech and the product, the product angle. What's the key differentiation for you guys in the product? I mean you mentioned security and we'll drill a little bit down into that, but what are the key differentiates for you right now? Well that's the one we wrap it around is secure cloud storage. So that's what we sell as secure clouds. Secure storage clouds. And as I said before confidentiality, integrity, and availability. Those are the things that we lead with. Now there's other advantages. Cost efficiency, which is kind of the same thing as power efficiency, space efficiency. You just need less servers, less electricity, less capital. And for some customers it's cost for some others it's power and for others it's space. And so those are some of the key things that we really focus on. And there's some other benefits we could talk about like scalability, you know, the system can scale to forever if you're using a object interface for example, which is unique. I mean you could literally have a namespace with 10 exabytes in it. There's a lot of simultaneous riders in that same container. No one else can do that. But you've got to kind of pick your thing to focus on. And we really focus on secure cloud storage. What do you think about the efficiency message? I mean obviously every vendor has a storage efficiency because you know storage is getting bigger and bigger. I mean everyone has to have an efficiency story. What's your take on the storage efficiency messaging in general from other folks in the marketplace? And then what's your strategy and message around efficiency? What's where dispersal has real advantages? The traditional approach people have used to create reliability is to create copies as well as to use parity bits which is RAID. So in an enterprise environment it's not at all unusual for someone to have three copies. And it's not at all unusual for them to have many more than three. But if you just say you know a person's got three copies maybe two in one location and one remote or something like that and they're using parity which means it's in a RAID array which it pretty much already is always is. So you add up all the bits you end up with and there might be some other inefficiencies introduced by you know file system or kind of how they lay things out. But at a minimum for every bit of original information you end up with five bits to store. And now you got five bits to air condition and five bits to you know buy equipment for and five bits worth of floor space and so on and so on and there's just no way around it. That's what drives your cost. Dispersal allows you to get you know way higher reliability. So a typical talk about dispersal. We didn't we didn't get into that. That's your core different approach. Dispersal approach. Dispersing the data and then having multiple copies. Just take us through that real quick. Yeah so as I said normally to create reliability you maybe have three copies and so the value of that would be I could tolerate two simultaneous failures because I got three copies and if I put those in three locations then I can handle two location failures. If I put those in one location I can handle two server failures. So you know you can figure that based on your business requirements. But that's a very expensive way to get reliability and it has security problems because what you want to do from an availability point of view is make multiple copies and put them in multiple places. That's exactly what you don't want to do from a security point of view because you're basically putting your attack surfaces all over the place. And there's other things that doesn't address like data integrity. There's other ways to create reliability besides making copies and that's what dispersal does. So a typical example would be let's say I have a file or an object to store or a block of data. Instead of just writing those copies meaning I'm writing ones and zeros that are the data. It might be encrypted. It might be compressed. It doesn't matter. I'm just writing it's real data and then I might put a parity bit at the end if I want to rate a rate. There's a different way. There's other ways to represent information. And involves a little bit more math but math is cheap because the Morse law math is kind of approaching free. So instead of let's say so the way a typical dispersed environment would work is I'll take 10 numbers at a time of that data and what I'm going to do is I'm going to take those 10 numbers. I'm going to do a little linear algebra and I'm going to make 16 new numbers that have the property that if I have any 10 of them I can turn it back into 10 original numbers technically how that happens if you remember an algebra. If you have three equations and three unknowns you can solve. What we're really doing with those 10 numbers is we're making 16 equations with 10 variables and that's what we're storing is the sums of those equations. If I get any 10 of them I get 10 unknowns. And if I put each of those equations sums on 16 different servers and I could put them in 1, 2, 4, 6, 12, 16 locations I could create incredible reliability. So for example I could create the simultaneous value of 6 things because I have 16 I only need 10. So I get the reliability kind of like 7 copies but in terms of how much I'm physically storing I'm not storing 7 times what I started with I'm storing 1.6 times what I start with. And that doesn't include the parity, the rate that I would use in a copy based system. So you end up a pretty typical environment you end up with a million times the reliability with a third or a fourth times the bits. And that's a good trade off. You mentioned securities and you mentioned earlier about the storage guys not knowing the bit errors and things of that nature. We've seen over the past 15, 20 years as a client server has been enrolled into an internet environment that converges between network guys and developers, app developers. Completely different breeds, network guys and things provision. And security and storage we see the same kind of dynamic. As you just mentioned in your example you have multiple points of stuff being stored. You have more attack points. So a storage guy's optimized storage on paper but ultimately is exposed security wise. Talk about the dynamic you're seeing the collision between security and storage from a people standpoint. Because there's security staffs out there and there's network staffs and storage staffs we have to live through the old today's world of network and app kind of blending together. What's that status of the security storage guys? Are they coming together or is this still siloed out? It's been certainly upon the organization. What we found is that we're bringing advanced security capabilities to the market. But at the same time you don't want to present it as something completely new and different. Any organization that cares about security can have certain standards. Like they have a certain encryption level or encryption type that they're going to use or something like that. It's a very difficult conversation to go in there and explain to them why that's a bad idea and how you should do something better. It's a much easier conversation to say that's a great idea. We're going to still do that and we're going to add to it. And that's how we approach it. So even though at some level what we find is the person that drives the purchase of a private storage cloud or even a public storage cloud is the security guys I'm sorry the storage guys are the ones that are really doing it but they have to check in with the security guys. There's compliance and all kinds of other hurdles in the deal. So the way you have to address that is you can deliver a lot of benefits to the storage organization and they're really ultimately they typically drive the purchase and operate the system. But you have to do it in such a way that when they take that to their security representatives they can say it's what you've already established as a standard and more. And that's how we've designed the system and that's how we communicate those benefits. We're here with Chris Gladwin the CEO of Cleversafe Chris tell us talk about let's get into the sharing side and wrap this up. What advice would you give CIOs if they came to you and say hey Chris we're really looking at cloud seriously we've done some toe in the water kind of things but I really got to expand my storage footprint we got to have a strategy I need to get my arms around it I need a framework what should I be thinking about what should my what approaches should I be looking at. Well the things that you want to look for are you want to have the good things about the system that you have now and more you don't want to have a situation where you have to give up so for you know going back to security for example you don't want to have to suddenly relax your security standards but there's other issues so for example auditability control tuneability manageability those kinds of things that they're used to in their internal systems they need to demand those same things because you shouldn't have to step back you should get the benefits that they have from their own private resources and get more the cost effectiveness scalability whatever the kind of cloud elements that are important to them they should be able to get but they add in more so that's what they should ask for. What kind of things would you say to the CIO if I asked you if I was a CIO and I said Chris what kind of benefits should I be seeing from all this new tech clever save technology and or other tech around us and we're converging consumerization of IT however you want to call it but I still need to comply and I still need security what things should that be enabling what environment what things in my environment should be enabling and where those benefits should I be seeing well in our for the customers that we have now we always link it to something that's essential to business as we grow in the future you know we'll have a lot of customers but for now we focus on customers where something that clever save can uniquely provide is essential to their business and that's that's a pretty intimate relationship with the customer so it depends upon the customer so you know in the government environment you know security is incredibly important but resiliency you know if you look at the internet itself the internet itself was designed initially with government requirements in mind to be extraordinarily resistant in a war time environment you know that there are still parts of the government that consider that those kind of requirements so for them you know ability to tolerate six simultaneous losses or a higher number because you can configure it that way ten simultaneous losses still operate the confidentiality integrity that really drives them in other markets it can be it can translate into something about their business so for other customers of ours what it really means is your bottom line is going to have you know three more cents of earnings every quarter and that's a huge huge deal for them so it really depends you know but it you know technology capabilities are the same but it translates into different things for different customers. We're Chris Gladwin the CEO and president of Cleversafe you're a tech eagle at MIT you have a lot of experience as an entrepreneur you're running a big business now growing big financing you just had I say you've been to MIT East Coast we're here in California a lot of folks out there developing stuff from MIT good tech coming out of these big academic institutions like Stanford MIT and cloud is massively growing market math is our friend math is free ultimately free with the computer available what advice would you give those guys at a starting company not like you know I want to build an iPad out I mean there are some deep tech going on here in CloudAir we have some startups here in CloudAir labs and so open angle labs developing some tech what advice would you give them I mean on your journey five years you took a different approach than some just getting some venture capital what advice would you share aspiring entrepreneur or multi-term entrepreneur well the first thing I look for is a very significant benefit to the customer it's customers are not generally going to buy something from someone new and different it's 20% better you know that's not going to work and a competitor can respond to 20% better you've got to find just fundamental transform their business or you know transform their life kind of benefits so that's the first thing you've got to have you can't underestimate the competitors I mean they're not going to let you have their market I mean it's got to be fundamentally better to be the new entrant so that's the first thing you look for the second thing the number one business reason most new businesses fail is they don't last long enough they're usually right but they're wrong about the timing and they're always wrong on the optimistic side so you can't believe your own PR just because you're introducing this thing and it's great it doesn't mean that everyone's ready to buy it and it doesn't mean they're going to buy it tomorrow so you also have to look at timing and I like to find businesses where the mega trends are on your side like in our case with clever safe you know if you just look at hard drive storage which is the bulk of big storage and eventually this will be true of flash as well hard drives on a more logistic basis get slower every year eventually it will take a month two months to read or write a whole hard drive worth of data which makes those systems less and less reliable because if they fail it'll take a month to rebuild that that's good for us because we solve that problem we go to make that go away so if the pain isn't great enough for you as a customer with a 12 hour rebuild time well we'll be back because it's soon going to be 24 hours and it's soon going to be a weekend so that's just a matter of time and there's other things that we look for that where we just know where you know this is going to happen and you know sometimes the customer is ready to go down sometimes they'll be back in three years but it's going to happen so that's what you look for how does an entrepreneur handle the timing because you're right I mean I would agree with you entrepreneurs are very visionary and they tend to be early and a lot of the web bubble ideas were dead on they're just ahead of time how does an entrepreneur handle that timing issue because you said you mentioned in your you have some scar tissue where you've experienced that in one of your first startups in this one you're taking a little different approach what should an entrepreneur do how do you keep developing how to keep the idea alive and put on the shelf you know who test marketed well you got to get at least close you know with the wireless tablet thing I was off by you know 15 years you're not going to last that long so you got it you can be a couple years off but you got to be within a couple years and then you got to just you got to manage it like a business at the end of the day what businesses do is deliver a value to customers and get paid for it and get paid enough that they can make money that's what businesses do and that's never going to change so it's okay to have a you know front end business model keep you alive and keep you in the market getting data requirements you okay with that yeah a lot of times what you're doing in the early stages of a startup is you're learning you're learning how to describe the great thing that you've created you're learning who should be the person you know type of customer that you should approach there's a lot of learning that goes on and you've also got to be careful to not you know there's times when you you might think I got to like really start spending more money on every on this this this and this and you know if this whole thing's got to happen in the next three months we got you know you got to be careful not to do that too early when that time comes you got to hit it but you also if you hit that wrong and you hit that early yeah it's extremely difficult to recover from it's a little it's easy to recover from a little bit of hesitancy on that but if you don't wait too long but if you think the market's going to go to you know soon and you start spending you'll spend yourself out and you'll never come back question for you obviously you've done some really really good tack and you've written number of patents hundreds of patents the question I always get from entrepreneurs is when do I file a patent if do I file a patent I'll see some of the internet stuff time makes critical and maybe maybe patents will work or not it depends on patents I mean you have a lot of them it's obviously on the on one end you know it's deep tech to protect it when you're not sure no like okay I got to start filing patents or provisional patents or whatever it depends I mean it's always good to file I mean your patent is not arbitrary I mean the patent has very defined standards for what's patentable it has to really be a genuine invention it has to be usable it has to be non-obvious right those are the three criteria so you have to have patentable stuff it's just you don't just get a patent because you want it degree so obviously that's the first qualification it's got to be patentable which is not necessarily an easy standard you know because a lot of things you know there's a lot of prior art you know so that's I mean that's legally a minimum requirement in terms of the if you now have stuff that is patentable do you file you genuinely want to it has a lot of benefits it will give you credibility in the market and it'll help validate you to your customers to press to potential acquires to potential partners to investors so it's useful in that sense you shouldn't expect as a kind of a new company that you're going to collect royalties because the time in which that could happen is you're not going to get the patent for four years and you know the idea that you're going to sue somebody and get money that's very rare you sue some companies and they're going to sue you back with a thousand of their patents and you're the dead end I mean yeah so it's not so much about I'm going to monetize this and I'm just going to sit there and collect royalties but it does have value in all those other things the credibility very long-tracking investors showing some defensibility yeah some of those key requirements of investment in our business more than likely as you said you're not going to use it offensively more than likely you're not going to use it other than to kind of give you some credibility I mean you're not going to use it in a short term but if you do the most likely way will be defensive is that you'll get sued by somebody else and you'll need it we're here with Chris Gladwin the president CEO Cleversafe talking about his business at Cleversafe the innovative approach with dispersal talking about lessons for entrepreneurs CIOs final question for you Chris is should the arrow forward five years or so you talked earlier about how we've seen in the 80s the shift and how things changed what's going to happen over the next five years in your mind that's not so much from a Cleversafe statement just from a market what's going to change what's going to be different in five years what will continue what might shift just speculate a little bit I get very specialized so for the past five years I've thought a lot about cloud storage so I can talk a lot about that when you get me outside of that I get really stale really fast but in the world of cloud storage it's going to take at least five years for the industry to broadly transition I mean look you know everyone thinks like mobile telephony happened overnight because of their experience of adopting mobile telephony happened overnight one day they got a phone but that's not how it worked the time from the first working mobile phone call wireless phone call to the first commercial wireless phone call was about 15 years took a little while for that to become obvious it's very obvious now but it wasn't so obvious in the 70s the same thing is true I mean you know you get in Silicon Valley and you know come to the Cleversafe office and it might seem very obvious what's going to happen in cloud storage but that doesn't mean every single storage administrators on the page for next quarter's purchases so five years is not that much time and you know I think five years is really a realistic time of how long it will take for the industry to broadly adopt and deploy cloud storage congratulations thanks for coming on Chris really appreciate your very smart and clever and got the credentials and great tech with Cleversafe I'm John Furrier with siliconangle.com and siliconangle.tv we're inside the Cube in Palo Alto at the home of big data cloud era where we sublease some space and we have our silicon angle labs thanks for coming on and look forward to next time