Welcome. Welcome. What's up y'all? My name is Alan. Welcome to our first episode of the table and we are joined by Five lovely guests. I'm gonna go this way and have you introduce yourself. Hello. Hello everyone. My name is Portia I am 33 and I am in a happy and loving relationship with the woman My name is Latoya, I am also 33 years old and I have been married for with my To my husband for seven years Peace my name is Jada guy seven I'm 47 years old and been in a relationship with my lady for 10 years. Wow My name is Jasmine. I am 32 and my relationship status is pending We're gonna come back tonight Hey guys, I'm Asia. I'm 28 and I'm a single Pringle Young all right y'all so like I said the Theme of this is the table, right? So in a lot of conversations we talk about the table the proverbial table What do you bring to the table? What is the table? I am the table. He is the table I'm gonna start with y'all. What is your definition of The table and what do you think people misunderstand about the concept my definition of the table was outside of the social Construct of what people feel like the table is as far as man being a provider woman being provider Who has more say so in the household? My definition of the table is stability You know how to create an environment where man and woman and child can sit at a stable table And you define it from there. That's my definition of the table. It's outside of the spectrum of what people talk about the table is Okay, today's we don't have people really sitting at the table That's what we're doing. Yeah, that's what we're doing Jasmine. What is your definition of the table? I think the table Kind of what y'all was saying is what is agreed on or what is discussed as to what that table is going to be What that table is going to look like and it's the foundation of whatever relationship that you're going to build with each other Outside of the social constructs of what you said, I agree with you on that. Okay. Okay. That's really good Let me go to the toy The table actually I'm gonna spin it for you. Yes. What are The different gender expectations of the table what are men expected to bring to this table What are women expected to bring to this table especially if somebody's been married? Okay, so Entering my relationship. I honestly didn't even consider a table I think where I was in my life when I began dating my husband was just curiosity and I was also discovering myself. So I didn't really have any expectations other than is this person a Good fit in terms of Allowing me to be who I am Express my joy express my happiness and those sort of things. I wasn't really thinking it in terms of How can they provide for me because I did grow up? With a sense of a Vendor pendants and so I wasn't necessarily looking for someone to provide anything for me or to do anything for me it was just can I find a companion and Are we compatible? So when I think about the table right now seven years into a marriage and the relationship has been over like 13 years I see it as What does a happy stable? Supportive home look like and not what can I bring to that table? But how can we co-create that table together because I feel like the table is always changing as we grow Our family is growing our values are becoming more defined our Our goals are expanding The table is constantly changing but as long as we have that mutual understanding of We've got each other. Our table is perfectly fine as it is. Mm-hmm. That's good. I like that. Okay Hmm let's talk to the single and it's complicated folks what? Are your expectations? for That table so let's all you talked about co-creating a table a lot of the conversation We hear on like social media is he got to bring X Y Z to the table. I am the table. What's y'all's concept? Say I'm gonna start with you So okay, so with what you just said The question being or the statement saying he has to bring X Y Z to the table to me that means that the table in some sense already exists and I think like I'm not gonna lie to you all like I'm not the one that says well I am the table like I don't know to me in my head. It's what do we both bring to the table? So to me, I guess I'll look at it as a table is like a foundation But what do we bring collectively to it? I mean really the question is what do we want to bring to it because there are things I think we bring things that we don't even want If we're bringing ourselves, I guess like figure figuratively speaking to this table Sometimes you can bring your traumas Sometimes you can bring unhealed pain So I think that's something to consider like even when we throw that out there while I am the table Okay, are you a broken table? Are you a repaired table? Are you a refinished table? Are you a new table? So I think it's there's so many things you can bring to that But it just depends on how you look at it and how you really truly look at yourself as an individual So for me, I would love for the table to be like a foundation I mean you got to think about it like even back in the day They said like, you know the man the man brings home the bacon and the woman cooks it So like is the man bringing what's being provided on the table and the woman's preparing it? I think there's just many ways you can look at it and I guess for me like I said I want to look at the table as like a foundation, but I want it to be It may be an average like you said an ever-changing table because we're gonna constantly evolve and Think about just tables in a sense like like a they how they look they're they're aesthetic. They're cosmetic We constantly change our furniture and different things like that. So how do we how do we want this table to look 10 years from now?  We might not be buying the new table because right now all we can afford is the table That's the hand me down But what will we do with the table that's been handed down to us? And then when we get to a place where we can buy the table which kind of table do we want then and how do you want to set it? So I think it's really Really how you want to look at that how you want to set the table? Yeah, how do you want to set it? So I like to add to that though because as I said, I'm pending So as I'm pending I'm learning that growing up, you know like For some people you have this idea of like I'm gonna get married at this age I'm have kids to this age and where I am in life I had those expectations Where they were completely like torn down and it was like uh-huh new canvas What you gonna do? And so now that I'm in this era of dating because dating is different today Now it's like you have to you have to be like, okay I have this expectation, but is this really what I want like or it's like should I unlearn this expectation? According to what is happening to today. So it's like you're For me personally, I'm in a journey where I'm discovering like I have certain Expectations but then it's like, okay, do I want to keep this expectation or do I want to let go of this expectation and be Open to something better Has society had an effect on your expectations? Yeah, like I come from My parents that have been married to now for 44 years and they're older. They're in their 70s So this is a an older generation baby boomer Relationship where we like that's just a whole different ballgame right there You know where you stick it out with your partner and y'all just y'all make it work But today it's like do I want to make that work with this person like that that's such an excellent Point because you brought up an interesting point about like the expectations between generations and also the Curriculum too because our parents generation a good marriage was a marriage that lasted for umpteen years For our generation is like am I happy am I fulfilled in the whole night? How was that affecting the process of mating in the process of settling or settling down? So I think that comes with your self-work as a person You have to be self-aware of who you are Because the thing about being happy and fulfilled. It's not the responsibility of the other person is your Responsibility the only thing that other person is supposed to do is add to what you've already have been creating for yourself And there you're supposed to be able to coexist together where they're an individual and you're an individual and you guys are Working and you're choosing to be together because I mean that's the reality of a relationship You're gonna choose to be together.  I think what's tough about that is like When when we hear stories about like our parents and our grandparents that wasn't their paradigm They needed each other. There was no I'm coming in as an individual Grandma was 14 grandpas 15.  They built everything To your point by themselves, but that's not gonna work in 2023. So like Where do we go in establishing this new paradigm and making it work? Yeah, you got any any thoughts on that it's interesting because when you said that Person comes to a relationship and they have to come to the relationship with fulfillment Inside of themselves and the other person doesn't have to contribute to that fulfillment. I actually feel like it's the opposite. I Feel like partners should be chosen based on fulfillment So if you're looking for someone You should be looking for them in a manner of fulfillment. Like what do they bring? You know, what is their character like, you know What are they studying? What are they learning? What are they spending their time on so that you can pretty much?  That's why most relationships don't last today but when you there's a How should I say when you say people are led by What they do as far as their financial status and stuff like that That's a few that's a small group of people because I don't identify that way how I identify is though I do have a business right in that I'm trying to maintain my peace So while I'm doing all these different things, it's like are you are you just watching me struggle or are you? There and saying how can I help you and how can I support you where you are in your journey right now? Because I think of it as if I had a family and a partner and I lost all of it Who would I be like would I be able to know who I am as a person at the end of the day? Or would I be like my identity was in my kids my identity was in my husband and now I don't know who I am And I don't know what to do with myself. That's how I and I think that's what makes Relationships so difficult today and this is why you know, sometimes I get upset at old people Because grandma never had to think about that Yeah, right and a lot of the anxieties that we have about even you know What if he leaves you tomorrow? It comes from grandma It comes from her staying with the man that really didn't love her really didn't like her even but she had no other choices She she had no marketable skills in a whole nine And this is why I think this this conversation is so important because the old folks would tell us just do what we did But it's not gonna work in 2023 We don't have we have more options than they did they did, you know from people to you know I'm saying opportunities in the whole nine. So like how do we How do we create a new Workable system for us from 2023 2024 and beyond like in the aspect of dating dating Relationships with all these new options in the whole night. So one thing like as we've been discussing this I think one thing that I'm thinking about is do we date to purpose? Because I think purpose is something that we're driven by nowadays like you were saying back in the day You know grandma state where grandpa even though grandpa had like two other families on the other side of the city grandpa state Or grandma state with grandpa because she didn't have a choice But grandma also didn't have a choice to to live out purpose or to fulfill a dream even have a dream and nowadays Like we have that right we have that privilege So something that I'm thinking about is like dating to purpose and I feel like sometimes it can be like we date Well as a single-pringle Dating for like dating where I am right now But what it like when I elevate Am I gonna find what you do now attractive or am I going to find like am I gonna not even what you do? Am I gonna find your mindset attractive is your mindset even going to push me to greater heights than what? You know to what I need to do like do you speak life into me? Are you supportive of the dream? Are you jealous of the dream? Are you jealous of me? So it's I think dating like that's why I say now like my my Approach to dating is okay Asia like Where do you want your life to be? The person that you're dating are they speaking life to that? Are they taking away from that can they even see that because I feel like as a woman um I want a man that's a visionary Like I want a man that can I can tell him an idea and it's like okay. Let's let's put a business plan to it Here's some action. So I think that's something to consider like what is your purpose like what what what brings you from feeling like What do you want to do on the earth and you date someone? And I mean I don't want to say just particular to that thing like I'm a saying I sing but I don't have to date like a singer I don't have to date like a musician Who can speak to that creativity? You know I'm saying who can speak life to that so that I don't I don't know if that even makes My daughter right now is 22 so when I was raising her I used to always tell her that a good man is not hard to find You just got to pay attention to his habits. Hmm. I Think habits are a very key indicator for for men and like what you can Expect future state because I'm not trying to generalize but in my experience What somebody does regularly or how somebody does one thing is how they do pretty much everything else, especially as a man My husband has taught me that he's taught me this about other men. He's like just just pay attention like be observant as you said and so We're going back to the conversation of like how do we you know Set ourselves up for success in terms of like relationships whether it's dating I I even consider relationships just your entire community Which is to me what is the most important thing about like looking at relationships in the trajectory in which it can take so if you're with someone who you know, they are Closed-minded or they're very isolated and they tend to isolate you to me That's a red flag Because as you were saying, you know a lot of the fear comes from oh, I don't want to end up alone Well, if you're with someone who is a lot more collaborative in the sense in that they have a community They have a village they encourage you to build your village They encourage you to go after your dreams and make connections and collaborate and network and do all those things to me That's someone who is thinking more broadly in the sense that I don't necessarily want to be your everything for everything But I want you to have exactly what you need and to me that is that's key because What I feel is is missing with relationships these days even as a married woman is Community we don't have that that sense of community as much as we used to I feel And it's because we don't we weren't really taught that either I think the pandemic has a lot to do with it, too You know if we kind of isolated ourselves and we're kind of fearful of like being around people and just all the negativity that comes up from groups of people and things like that Community-mindedness is something that I feel will help save relationships so that you don't put the pressure on just one person To be that everything for you that being a being in a community of people that will be honest When I was dating I dated someone's potential What I thought they could become or what I I saw what I wanted them to become and I didn't date intentionally I thought just was out there thinking about what I what I was supposed to path I was supposed to be on and the Detective that would lead me to my best This is as good as I can get the whole settling down but when I realized I didn't have to truly settle and To jasmine's point started getting me together fulfilling myself and started chasing me Then my relationship found me I stopped chasing The potential and the hope but I chased me and tried to figure out What is it that I wanted and what did I need and when I started doing that it exuded from me And what I needed and wanted found me without any provocation any Extra energy or help yeah, and and I mean like y'all I mean like it was like that night and then Three years later boom But I had to understand that You can't date trying to figure out who you want somebody to be You can't date because you need this person You have to date with the intention of ensuring that they keep you true to being yourself fulfilled But also to your point they're fulfilling you more and bringing more to you so you're already Your cup is already full, but they're overflowing it when they come into your life I feel like a relationship is a service to one another. Absolutely. So if you have the mindset to service then You can win in any relationship, you know, whether it be your spouse or just friends in general, you know What do you bring it to the table? Right? It should be service Because when you approach things from a service standpoint then your whole life change Yeah, it elevates you because you're not looking for things with your hand out Like I'm not going into a relationship looking for this woman to what you can get. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking to serve What can I serve so yeah the point to the conversation is a lot of men today lack provision They don't know how to provide for their woman. They only know how to provide financially. That's the case in most cases. That's the argument But in most cases you can provide for women financially, but she still can be broken internally So how do you heal that you got to elevate her? How do you elevate her? You have to show her different paths You got to get her in tune with things that's outside of the normal conversation Because when you start having those conversations then you see her elevate and then she carries herself in a way Of what they would consider to be your likeness So like in my relationship My woman probably can fulfill. I mean she can say my sentences Because she's been around she knows verbatim what I am and not going to get in get into so a Man's provision is not only solely where he can provide financially. I feel that's the smallest piece of a relationship Because like you said the table can change What if that man runs into a struggle who gonna be at the head of that table is he gonna be looked at less than See so those particular things because if you're in a relationship with a woman you say look bae I got this business venture. It didn't work out the way I thought it was gonna work out So all the capital is gone now she has to step in and provide financially as a man You know, that's gonna hurt your pride if you always lead Which your financial game plan if you able to let her take the seat and let her drive and say she's gonna be back I got this Figure it out. That's a different conversation Versus beat you down saying you're less than a man because you can't do what you used to do and those are the conversations That's had in the average household between men and women and that's why women look for men to provide financially versus spiritually and emotionally today I'm glad you mentioned that though because that's something that I asked as a single woman like I'm like I'm not there yet, but there's a possibility Would you be okay if I made more money than you for sure like would you would you would you would you be okay? Like would you feel resentment would you Like you know because for me, it's like I may not always be making more you may be making more But when we become one that's what matters as to how we're providing as our whole family together It's like you're not taking advantage of me and our money and what we've built then it's like It doesn't matter. You know what I mean?  Are you doing yourself work so that you feel confident enough like you like yeah, my wife makes more money than me But you know what a like why do you think so many men struggle with that? I Think some men I mean I think it's a matter of how they're raised I mean there's that standard of you have to be your provider for one It depends on how old they are today. I think the difference. There's a different generation today. Okay. Let's say let's say Millennials Yeah, I think that comes with you're supposed to be a provider If you're not this then the third then what are you doing with your life? Money is power. Yeah control. Yeah What makes a person right when you have that mindset then the man if he does not have that Financial peace where he's greater than and he's no longer in control He loses head of household because she she would I say she's wearing the pants now And she's the one that has it all because she makes the most money To play guys out for a second.  Do you feel like from a man's perspective? There are certain characteristics that come along with the woman who quote-unquote makes more. Do you think there are some? Perhaps emasculating characteristics that she embodies so it's not about him being insecure It's her about her being domineering you feel like there's something to that sometimes I think there's some women that are like that. Yes, but I but I also believe that It's fabricated in the man's mind that he equates Having a certain financial status to his word But do you think it's also fabricated in the woman's mind that it equates having a certain level of submission to a man being above her a Man being more Larger than her whether financially physically emotionally. Oh, I think that comes with discernment because at the end of day If he makes more money to me more money than me, please know that I'm Trusting you to be in a position where I know you're not gonna take advantage of me because you make more money than me That's a conversation to be had on that But there are some people that don't talk about that because that's all they do care about They all they do care about is being provided for and having money So the conversation is not even there and the man she's doing whatever and as long as she's being provided for or he's being Provided for they don't need to have a conversation on anything. Okay, let's take it away from finance It'll be yeah, it'll be easier to look at it this way like Do you think most women would be comfortable dating a man who's shorter than them? Shorter than most women. Yeah The answers know why I Mean, I think one that's based on Society and the standards that's just just been thrown out there and media for one But in real, I mean being realistic Some people don't care about that. They're like as long as you're good to me That's all that matters because there are some women.  I think the the point I'm trying to drive at is like a lot of times We talk about how some of these traditional societal expectations affected men Yeah, and our ability to be in a situation like you described where he's less than the woman But we don't talk about how it affects women like the reality is most women would be uncomfortable to man who makes less than them Most women are seeking like if every woman had it their way the guy would be larger Larger than life more intelligent. I want him to lead me learn something the whole night. So maybe Subconsciously there is a different way that women talk and you know, you know, this as a man Yeah, he knows this as a man There is a different way a woman talks to you when she sees you as less than Versus seeing you as well and she might not even be conscious of it. Yeah, right So I think men should receive a little bit of benefit of the doubt and I think it's it's more difficult these days because Some people look like money, but they're broke Yes, and they're they're looking for somebody else who can Who they can look good as a unit with but they both broke Right, so they don't respect the guy in the Honda. Well, he has a 401k They respect the guy in a Ferrari or Mercedes, but he doesn't have any money saved up if you break that down Right. It's a matter of priorities Like for me if a man is not making as much money right now, right?  That's what matters To me. I'm a I know that sounds crazy, but oh, it doesn't know it doesn't sound crazy on what he's getting it here because I understand it so In my in my dating world, I typically made the most money every man. I did I didn't make more money than them.  Yeah with me. Yeah, and I'm doing all the work I'm the man. That's that was my mindset. I'm the man right now. Yeah, what do I need you for? Talk to me when you've got what is necessary To keep this household intact because I'm the one that's doing it. That's tough. I don't really need you What do I need you for?  I got the car that works all the time. I'm all of this. Yeah, what are you bringing? But to be fair, that's more consistent with the majority the majority like the majority of women won't admit that yeah Yeah, if you if she doesn't look up to you in some way shape or form Most women in my experience my little pimping journey Listen You want somebody that's visionary if I ask you what are your goals and you have nothing in mind? I'm like, all right. Well, I Have goals and so at this point I'm assuming that you're not you're not gonna understand where I'm trying to go Which is when you talk about compatibility in your priorities. Yeah, so in our in our relationship The position of the breadwinner has changed several times and even when I was the breadwinner And we had to have this conversations about you know Our finances and how things are gonna be taken care of but it kind to me it goes back to like what are your habits? If you're taking care of yourself and you're taking care of the things that you have even when you are not, you know The primary breadwinner. I'm okay with that. I'm I'm totally okay with that now there now. I would not I would not you know Demean because we've had a conversation too. He's like, I don't care if you make more money than me Just don't rub it in my face, right? I'm okay with that like that's fair. That's plenty fair But to me it's all about like I need to know that even with what you have like you're taking care of that like to me That's what a provider does like can you can you make sure that the house is kept up? Like I don't have to go hire a handyman to go fix something because you know You're attending to what needs to be done in the house or whatever the case may be like it doesn't always have to be About can you pay this bill, right? But can we take care of the things that we care about together, right? But I think Again, I have to represent the brothers, right? I think What you're saying is a thoughtful Response to that type of situation But the reality that a lot of men are encountered with in the wild is like Most women aren't thinking that deep most women are oh you are shorter than me and oh you're smaller to me And oh you make less than me. You're less educated and It's that's a thought process, but it's also unfair to say that it's most women Yeah, and the the fallacy that comes into play is that oh I have to become what she wants If this woman is presenting these things to you and you see her in this light because if she's that way And she's that shallow it's gonna be evident I don't think it's a shallow thing actually What do you think it is? That's just my personal take on it because it's like oh you're cuz I get my girlfriend doesn't like that I'm taller than her Like it's just that's just shallow things that don't really matter But if those things are like what plays into What they consider to be I guess what they consider to be important if it's they're there, you know non-negotiables and you as a man are uncomfortable with their non-negotiables Why do you pursue and chase those things because men?  No Like you saying a man is trying to go out and upkeep this particular image Why is he trying to upkeep this particular image because he's more attractive. He's more attractive He's more attractive to the woman at this point which woman we're not talking about this woman We're not talking about the the conscience woman that's found their way We're talking about the average woman who looks for man's provision But can I just ask how was that pressure being like to me? How is the pressure being put on by the woman? I think it's just like that's a pressure You may be taking on yourself Okay, let me give you an example When women are brought up in a household with their mothers who are single mothers what type of conversations you think they're having In the mother What is the mother saying make sure that my my mother was a single mother, okay? And and so I never knew my father my older brother knew his father My mom never disrespected that man that my mom was in my brother's presence or mine But she taught me and my brother both to be strong and independent We both had to learn how to cook how to maintain a household So there's this stigma saying that when like you can't you don't need no man for nothing My mom never dated in front of us. She had friends, but she never dated but she never told me Like men are bad. She never instilled in me this old be independent be by yourself It's be independent be ready to make sure you have it on your own that you don't need nobody But it's okay to be with someone so at those things all single mothers aren't out here trying to say you don't Need get what you came from this man or you don't need no man. It's but that's the reality though Yeah, that's your reality. I think but I think outside the context of like relationships and and that that goes back to my first point about the dynamics changing because the Natural quote-unquote traditional dynamics is the man is the leader the man is the head you follow his lead, right? And right now we're trying to renegotiate what that is Maybe the woman's the lead maybe the woman is in charge in a whole nine And I think that's why it's so difficult for us But since time and memoriam when we look at leadership when we look to leadership whether in the wild with animals whether President I think I read something that said every US President has been above the average height of his time period, right? There is something innate to the human species to look up to somebody we're gonna follow Like I have to think you're better than me in some type of way for me to take your guidance And in a male-female dynamic where the truth is women are still looking for that even what you said about I want Somebody I could learn from I want somebody I could look up to they're still that whether it's a little look up Because he's taller or look up to because he knows something you don't there still is that expectation that he is Building bringing more to this proverbial table than I am and he's going to help me multiply the things that I'm bringing to the table He's gonna teach me stuff You know I could learn stuff from just like you said he could help grow my business and it These are still expectations before being honest. I have a question for the fellas at the table then So what do you feel that women? What do you feel women should bring to this proverbial table? You'll go first. Yeah. Yeah, I will first The divine presence of her love and nurturing is first Because if she has that then she can she can lead the household right she can take constructive criticism Without being argumentative So the man is coming in and he's being the leader of the household in a way where it's not disrespectful but it's leading and She doesn't want to listen to the lead and she's more of the type of woman that is very dismissive To his lead Then she should lead first with the love and nurturing in the ability to be able to listen to the guidance That's first That's good question. Yes. Okay, and the others will ask this question is because when I was younger I would always hear Asia you're gonna have a really hard time submitting to someone But just like listening to what you said like when you said argumentative So what if Like what she's saying isn't to cause an argument but just to provide a different perspective Like what if what she brings can be like hey like the way you're doing it is great But what if we looked at it from this angle also to cover this base as well because I feel like sometimes like I felt I Feel like I've been Sad or maybe labeled as combative and argumentative and it's like I'm not saying like in me providing a different perspective It isn't saying that what you're saying is wrong But it's like sometimes if you're only looking at one part of the picture from this one angle And I'm looking at it from a different thing We can be looking at the same thing like even this cell phone sitting right here on the table the angle in which I'm looking at it I see that the time is 929 if you look at it from a different angle You're gonna see something totally different. So it's just like what if like in a loving way in a nurturing way Can the like would you consider it argumentative or combative? combative if she says okay Well, what if what if we did something like this or is that because you like you were talking about leading and she brings her Nurturing presence and take and listen to the lead But what if she tried to add a little you know Let me jump in there because I want to answer your question too at the same time So I think you know whenever I think of like gender dynamics I think about it from like the perspective of children right and I've said this on the channel like Men teach their children how to survive women teach their children why to survive So I think what a woman brings to the proverbial table is perspective to your point right now with that being said like a World without women like men would survive, but they wouldn't want to Like just rudimentary they would survive, but it wouldn't be a world worth living in right and that's because women give life color Like you ever seen a single dude like he got a couch And two things in the fridge and that and we comfortable with that and but the woman comes in and turns that into a home Exactly women make us better. That's that's the reality of it now with that being said I think some of our sisters who are struggling with the argumentative combative It's all about delivery and unfortunately a lot of our women have had to assume a Masculine disposition masculine posture, you know because you've had to protect yourself and provide for yourself and over time It was to saying Pressures made for shoulders not hips over time that makes you callous And it gives you insight into why dudes are the way that we are like we're not emotional The whole not you have to be that to move through the world to bust through walls You have knuckles have to be rough right and then when women experience that it makes you a bit more like a man So when you meet a man He's not gonna jail well with you because you're another man Now if he likes men then that might if he's a more submissive More effeminate man than there might be some synergy there But if you meet another man with masculine energy and you come in with masculine energy You don't know how to I'm talking about from the delivery of your voice to your presentation and the whole night Men like soft because we have to be hard for sure and unfortunately. I think a lot of What we're seeing from our women in particular is a lot of things have made y'all Hard and you don't know how to be soft anymore. Unfortunately That's why I said to leave with love because that's important for a man when you leave with that energy You know, we can we can receive anything Well, I think the first thing though like a lot of what I hear from people is like she doesn't trust me Right, so I think first and foremost like you have to do your vetting and do diligence up front Yes, to know the caliber of man that you are so you're not questioning him every two three Sentences that he makes because it's gonna irritate the man so that when you are Pillow talking or giving him that back rub and telling what baby you think about it like this He can better receive it, but if you're constantly Questioning his intelligence because that's how it comes off to us like you think I didn't see that I saw that twice before you did right Then it becomes like oh, she thinks she could do my job better than me and it was interesting And I think I asked you this during our interview I think I asked her this during during our interview if you were a man Like if you woke up tomorrow, you were a man. What kind of man would you be now? I've asked every woman I've interviewed that and I've asked every man I've interviewed that I found something Women claim that they would be just a male version of themselves on average Men claim they'd be a completely different person Which lets me know that men on average based on my interviews, right? men have more of an appreciation of the Complexity and the difference of femininity in the woman journey Then women have of the men because a lot of women think they can simply just step into manhood With what they have in their disposition so they don't see value or the difference of value that manhood brings to the table I mean that's an interesting perspective, but I don't think it's that women don't see the value because a couple of men that I've dated before in the past have told me that I Didn't need I didn't need a man because I wasn't a man And it wasn't because I was demeaning or all this it's because I'm gonna have those conversations with you I've never been one to just let someone blindly lead me And that is not that was that's probably out of my survival out of me having to do what I've had to do to make it most of my life and I was always unapologetic about it and The men for me that a man that wanted to be made to feel like a man Bother me because it wasn't that's not my duty It's not my job to make you feel how you should always feel and it's not my job to make you feel better about the fact that You feel less than because of me because that means that there's something wrong with you That you're not doing enough of because I thrive in my feminine energy when I'm in any kind of relationship I thrive in it. So if you're doing what is necessary to bring it out of me You'll reap the benefits of it But I'm no no go ahead It is not blindly given when you are a woman that has had to Delve in that masculine energy current in this world we live in now You're either going to be Overtly Extra sometimes Ex-rated feminine to the point where it's uncomfortable Or you do have to play in those masculine spaces in order to have a seat at the table You know what I'm saying and as a woman who like I said, I've been on both sides that I have I'm in relationship with a woman. I Understand now that I still have my masculine energy It hasn't changed But to your point or how the delivery of things change for where a man would tell me you just want to be the man My girlfriend told me you need to let go of the weight Or a man tells me you just you know what you just thank you all that because you're making out as much of where the woman tells me I understand What you have and what you've done, but it doesn't make me any less so Men as a whole need to learn how to get out of their feelings when it comes to these things and not expect the woman to Create the safe space for you to Delve into Maybe some of your feminine energy as a man and let let the rings down. You have to understand that You do the work first to create that safe space for yourself And then when you are doing what you need to do for that woman is going to naturally occur because our feminine energy comes out Naturally, but you have to make it come out You contradicted yourself where I was listening Because you said that it is not the woman's responsibility To make the man feel like a man. It's not correct. We agree But then you went on to say That and and you compared your girlfriend to men in the past and how she has taken on the responsibility to make you more comfortable To be more feminine So you said it's not your responsibility to make me feel like a man But it's my responsibility to create an environment that's more comfortable for you to let your guard down and essentially Be more feminine. That's a contradiction So when I say that it's not for myself to make you talk about the man You should feel like a man No matter what so when the thing because again in a relationship with a man for me I'm doing the thing I'm supposed to be doing but because I'm working late And I may not be able to make dinner you're upset. This is my experience not everyone's but my experience You're upset about that or because I'm choosing to go out with my friends Some having to be male it makes you uncomfortable So when I say that like a man, it's about like not the whole. Oh, let me make sure you feel like you're the head of this household but more so like You're not making the money that I'm making so you feel bad about yourself You're not where you want to be in life. So you feel bad about that That's not my possibility It's not that her girlfriend is making her is taking on the responsibility is that she's aware of what's happening If a man said the same thing to her her femininity would still come out It doesn't matter. It's not the person taking responsibility It's that they are acknowledging that this is what they're seeing and they're validating her feelings But that's work. That's work Yeah, that's the reason therapists get paid what they get paid validation is work Acknowledgements work. That's different than me.  I'm making by comparing men I've dated to my girlfriend. It's the fact that She again, she knows she's a woman She's not threatened by the fact that I have masculine energy That I'm out here Like I said the whole working hard working a lot being I Kind of controlling sometimes at those things she recognizes as being part of who I am And so that it makes me feel like okay when she says something that needs to be that corrects me It's not with that whole Condescension going on that a man can sometimes because men when they do that they try they do it in a condescending manner They make you feel bad for having to be being in this masculine energy You had to be in too far a long time because it's what you've done instead of rather than trying to unpack it with you If they're not ready to be that man Hold on quote. I guess that makes sense But I think I think it speaks to the difference between men and women, right? There's a OG of mine. He said women struggle men struggle with power as far as like the dynamic of feeling weak or feeling strong That that's our insecurity women struggle with shame Right, and I think that I encourage men to be mindful of that when dealing with women just like you said create an environment where she doesn't have to live in shame However, it seems like women aren't willing to create an environment where I don't have to feel weak Okay, cuz I really want to just bring it back in and just say like honestly from what you said And you you've talked about like delivery and how we say things and she even mentioned it I think sometimes what we fail to realize is that we really want the same thing You just said if she can come with a loving and nurturing thing like we can present your present your perspective But it doesn't have to be condescending and even when you were talking about with like well with men They would say this versus my girlfriend says this so it's like to me where we miss the point is that We all can just fix our delivery like let's just not be condescending Like even in what you are saying like that's that's the thing like what the struggle becomes it's because of how we present it How we say it how a man says it to a woman how a woman says it to a man So I said that's why I was just like, okay Like I feel like we're making the same argument hundred percent, but again from different perspectives And I think sometimes that's where we like that's where we sort of kind of I think my biggest thing has been like We have to acknowledge that we're different And part of part of that difference is there are certain things that I have to Have grace for Because you're a woman there's a certain way just like you said with perspective There's a certain way you're gonna see shit and I have to be mindful of that and I have to be sensitive to that Similarly, there are some unique sensitivities that the woman should have for the man What I'm reporting because this isn't necessarily my experience, but I interview a shit ton of men I'm followed by shit ton of men and they're saying that while we are trying to work on having those unique sensitivities for the woman Women aren't even acknowledging that we have unique sensitivities I need to get this out. Yeah, we talked on deliveries great. We got it out the way What a man and a woman are completely different, right? That should be celebrated great But what we're feeling to also mention You mentioned that we want a woman that's loving and nurturing You too can be loving and nurturing. Mm-hmm. So are you tapping into your femininity? That's because we're tapping into both So you're saying of having the grace the thing is the grace was already here for us The grace it seems was not there for y'all for women because if you're being inconsiderate of a woman's feelings and The things that she's going through in order to make you comfortable, right? To what Portia said of it's not my job to make you feel like a man. Where did you do your work for yourselves? Maybe mama was not there to do that for you. Maybe that was not So where have you taken the responsibility and the accountability of yourselves where you have done that work for yourself? Because at the end of the day, you're going to continue to project and you're going to have these perceptions of what we think when in reality We're actually nourishing we're going to nurture you, right? But if you don't even nurture yourself, how are you going to come to me for your nurturing? We're supposed to bring it off. We're supposed to bring it off for you But you're not bringing in for yourself and that's the fulfilling part right there as well when you're doing your working yourself I think I think the unique experience that I've had with interviewing men and women is I found that Women on average at least the women I've interviewed tend to have a cynical expectation of men and It's this it's this posture of you have to prove to me that you're good enough While simultaneously Expecting that he assumes that you are good enough most women aren't coming to this proverbial table Acknowledging their faults and saying this is what I need to work on most are coming saying that this is what you need to work on So even when a woman is encountered with a man who was raised by both parents there's still an assumption that he has some emotional shortcoming or he doesn't express himself properly and Unfortunately, what happens or at least what I've seen happen is some women talk to men from a place of Emotional or intellectual superiority and it sets that precedent and that's what makes him defensive Because now he feels like oh What the challenge you're challenging me and you're expecting the worst out of me simply because what I'm black Right and and that's been a lot of men's Expectation so my only kind of argument has been if men are expected and and are being asked to have grace for women and Have an understanding do our due diligence to understand all the intricacies of what the woman has been through Even her natural cycles and the whole nine and how that affects her disposition There needs to be that work done from the female delegation for men I'm hearing from men that that's not the case women are assuming that they've already done the work but they're doing the work for them and I think a perfect example of this if If I was to ask a group of women You know, why are you or your female friends? Single most of them would say I don't know right Stacy's a lawyer Elizabeth as a doctor The other one owns a business see you see what I'm saying and As a guy what I understand is oh your friends are great men Because you're evaluating them from a feminine curriculum for men and not acknowledging that the way that men are gonna evaluate them It's a different set of rules.   What's she look like? What's the disposition? What is the skin like and and I think that's what gets lost in this in this conversation Because we're assuming that our curriculums are the same. I was gonna say that too because I feel like the most Challenging part of this entire conversation for me is the rigidity in these roles Which everybody can everybody has their own preferences and how they approach relationships I think it's natural for it to take a stance on that so that you can be you can bring your best representative when you are Out in the world dating and things like that now. We'll say like it sounds Heligato In the day before now and I feel for y'all and saying that I feel like the rigidity of these Expectations though is really what the cause of all this like the cynicism and even the What it sounds like is just you know men feeling very Or men feeling powerless to this like men don't know how to bask in their feminine energy I think I think if I think that the We cannot today in 2023 have the same traditional Of values and approaches to relationships as we have in the past because things are so different And so to still come to the table with those traditional values. You're kind of already setting yourself up, but at the same time I Think that expecting those values from people who don't even present that is also kind of like self sabotage as well Like I mean, I don't I don't I don't when you when you were talking about like the women in their their jobs I don't see that as masculine. I just see that as the way that they have Express themselves in the world to achieve what they wanted. I don't necessarily think that's The point I was making wasn't necessarily saying that that's masculine. It was just a point of value system, right? So the things that those women assumed made them more valuable in the dating market Actually doesn't move the needle for them at all Sometimes it actually makes things more difficult But that's You're saying that same old because he's the doctor or lawyer those are like those masculine qualities or things that No, what I'm saying is Unfortunately, I think a lot of times when we talk about Entitlement we talk about men, right? He Expected me to give him some butt because he bought me some flowers, right? However Women also have a sense of entitlement and some of that entitlement is I am this caliber of woman I I'm entitled to a good man. I have this type of position or education I'm entitled to a good man and what that stops them from doing is considering some of the Personality or character flaws that they have because they're just leading with I'm this and I've achieved this I graduated from Harvard. I did this and I did this How don't I have a good man without acknowledging or even taking the time to identify the fact that? You're terrible to be around That's like you're not a you know, you're not a good person like taking a woman who's the CEO of a company They did janitor mm-hmm But let's be for real. What's the problem with what why that that's her preference and there's no problem You know, there's no problem. That's what she likes. It seems like it's a lot of What you guys want is for women to be more sensitive to a Man no What what I would say is there's absolutely just like the ebony Kay Williams thing I don't expect to the data bus driver. That doesn't make sense What I'm saying though is if she then gets back on TV and says that why am I not having luck with men? She has to look at herself. That's it so my thing is if you are a Woman who's high achieving high earning the whole nine should you date a man? Who's less than you showed it and you makes less money than you absolutely not I believe everybody's entitled to their preference, however Do not expect to get what you feel like you're quote-unquote old Because if you haven't done the work to even figure out what the thing that you want wants if we want a certain job, right? I want to work for Google I go on Google's website. I read the job description I even try to see if I can set up coffee dates with people who work for Google So I can get a sense of what Google is looking for because I'm not entitled to a job at Google Similarly, what I'm asking of our more successful sisters is take time to learn What that guy that you claim you're entitled to actually wants because you'll be surprised that the thing on your resume that you Thought should have got you in the door Google doesn't care about and the thing that you might have been neglecting the bit of Experience or the bit of the community service thing that you should have done That's actually what would have got you the job and I feel like that's the disconnect a lot of times between Absolutely, no excellent explanation of What is lacking but if you took out women and put just men in there it is both genders Absolutely need to do that and I can say I just I feel like men want to Grab those men that are you know not at the CEO and the lawyers level they need to Bring themselves down and understand that okay, if this is not what's wanting to pursue me right now Then I need to pursue elsewhere and I need to stop expecting this woman to Work on herself so she can be ready for me I need to work on me so that I can be I can be on her radar. She can see me so it's like Excellent point, but We're trained to look at it from that perspective I get that but what I'm saying is that if the world has a view that If I'm a CEO of a company, right and then the woman is attracted to me because I'm a CEO of a company Maybe she's a CEO Right what I'm saying to you is no different from the celebrity realm people date with inside of it that particular realm Right, so what I'm saying to you is that instead of dating on those particular Realms why not date based on who's the best outfit for you? The janitor could be the best outfit, right, but in your mind you're thinking that this is less Valuable, but this could be the one for you versus all got a date There's no Washington because I'm Holly Berry Oh, yeah, so the point that I'm making is you can see it fails over and over again. You got plenty of examples Data celebrity doesn't guarantee the success of a happy relationship It doesn't show up. They somebody that has equal amount of value financially doesn't equate to a successful relationship But it's at the top of people's problems at the top of people's priority But the thing is that's people continually blinding themselves by that illusion That's not a real reality. The reality is if you're looking for a love me Then it should be looked at differently, right? It should be looked at differently not just from the perspective of what do I have? That I can give to someone else and what do they have that they can give me right? You see at the end of the day, it's about love. No matter how you break it down Finances don't equate to love So if you're dating based on What I have and what I can provide, right? Then you're setting yourself up for failure at the end of the day But again, that's Anything to say I was just chuckling because like when you were talking about Like okay for me like y'all need to date to value like value to like if you work in McDonald's like okay Maybe I'll need to go for the CEO or the owner of your McDonald's And it just made me think of Kevin Samuel's guy risk his soul, and it makes me think of But I'm just saying like to me like we were talking about earlier like these buzz words like another buzz word It's a high value man or a high value woman like Like I said, I really didn't have anything to chime in but to me just hearing like how you were talking like okay Kevin Samuels will say well like okay.  It's I think I think there's some overlap, but just like I said just like we need different things we have different problems There are some problems that are unique to men There's some problems that are unique to women and all I'm asking for is like space for us as men to be able to air our grievances to y'all I mean I mean on the on the macro right because even in my experience doing what I do There is a lot of resistance and I think that resistance is based on women's idea that they are Benevolent right like most women say that they can be naturally Feminine or submissive and then they say if Dot dot dot dot dot which means condition Right while Expecting that on our first date.  So it's like my masculinity. I said masculine entity my masculinity It should be initial, but yours should be conditional and that's one of the grievances man I think that's just across the board. I think honestly I to be very honest I don't think anybody on earth like unfortunately. I don't think we've sort of kind of grasped Like unconditional or like conditional that for me. I'm speaking from like a spiritual perspective like I know I believe that God loves unconditionally like if he says and if it says in the word There's nothing that I can do that was is that it will separate me from God's love Like that means there's nothing like even the worst thing that I did my to myself that makes me a love myself Like to God that's nothing but to people like we don't do like we like oh man You made me mad like like it doesn't mean I might not love you any less But I was like well, right like you made me mad So I think that's just like a human thing like we hold our stuff like we are bound to condition I just like like I don't think it's a bad thing either But I'm just saying like I like again, I feel like we're sometimes we make the same argument Like I but we be saying the same thing I'll say one of one of the unique things that men are concerned about and put it that way Because men weren't the ones begging for women to become masculine women becoming masculine is a consequence of Men's failings, you know women circumstances, but men weren't asking for women to become masculine with that being said Women now to your point are asking for men to become more soft and feminine and as you put it in touch with our feminine sides Can I say when you when you done, of course, so with with that being said I think one of the difficulties like if I'm thinking as a younger dude like For instance, I use this analogy. Do any of y'all play a guitar? Have you ever played a guitar before?  This is a metaphor women are asking us to learn how to play guitar, but maintain soft hands and that's Why do you say? Because you picked up the guitar Who told you to pick up that guitar made selection who made selection because we knew that Playing guitar again using the metaphor of playing guitar can differentiate us from other men and give us a higher likelihood to seduce women So so a man that did this to each other We're doing this led by we're peacocking right we're trying to mate and we understand that What is going to help us become more successful at mating are things like size Attractiveness status money the whole nine so we go for those things right so the the guitar Analogy is just saying that if I know how to play guitar and Steve doesn't and we both have the same level of risk I'm a pool more than he does but one of the consequences of me knowing how to play guitar is my Fingertips are gonna be callous. Let me let me take it to the animal kingdom Let me take it to the animal kingdom. So like bucks, right?  They died from arthritis Why do they die from arthritis because they have big massive horns? Guess what female though select for the man with the biggest Horns is going to mate first if our biological code is to mate and we grow the biggest most elaborate horn that we can grow In order to mate, but that thing is simultaneously killing us That is the dilemma of a man. So in that example, it's the horns But there are the things in in our communities whether it's you know the the gangster dude or the athlete or whatever the case may be and I'm just saying It would help if women considered the role that they play in some of the things we do to seek your affection So what are we supposed to do though? Grace that's it. Okay, but that's it because because what tends to happen is Women and going back to the guitar analogy You're complaining that my fingertips are rough without acknowledging the fact that I learned how to play for you Now can I go down? Yeah, like in this in this case that the woman asked like the woman that you were interested in she said like you you went up to her and said Hey, what what do I have to do to get with you and she said you got to play the guitar? No, I didn't you pick up the guitar again. I'm talking about on the macro Okay, I'm using guitar as as a metaphor, but this could go for you know, some dudes in the hood They turn a crime Getting money the whole nine those are different quote-unquote guitars and are women walking up to individual men and saying that you need to learn How to do this? No, however when we look at the men that are getting selected it is the taller guy By women the majority of women. It's the guy You are beating yourself up against these other men Absolutely You cannot expect a woman to give you grace for a situation you've created with other men And also going that graceful Well, you say men give women grace that women don't give to them women have had How many years of having to be graceful and when the mom we step into our own and we start to realize that We can exist in the masculine and feminine energy together men are all of a sudden well Notice me see me for who I am, but let me be you see I'm saying it's like that hold on It's like you you want us you want us to fix ourselves Make sure that we're giving word. We're not giving off masculine energy Make sure we're being this feminine woman for you We're making sure that we see the same way as this construct of us working together But also in all those things make sure if the man don't have this this this and this That you've set forth these standards owned by other men not women by other men and in your back of your mind It's because you think that women want this but you're really doing it because what you think women need Then if you don't have those things that woman also has to give you grace on top of everything else Here's the thing like I remember there was a bill, you know bill bird a stand-up comedian Yeah, well, he's his white dude's funny shit, but he did yeah, yeah, he did a set talking about how white women are now social justice warriors and he basically talked about how He basically talked about how like during People's oppression y'all were our sidekicks and now you're taking the posture of being the oppressed Even though you were the oppressor. It wasn't as overt as the white man But you you you you said you stepped your Gucci booted boots over the oppression line And you want to now claim victim and I say that to say We entered this conversation kind of assuming that the grace was one-sided so grandpa didn't give grandma any kind of grace Grandpa But but see again again again. This is these assumptions are fundamentally flawed because Sometimes when grandpa came back from Vietnam or he came back from from Germany He came back to find somebody else's kid and he raised that kid, but we don't talk about My point is this my point is this when we talk about Grace we talk about it from the perspective of assuming That one party was benevolent aka grandma and one party was vindictive aka grandpa So even in the scenario, I just gave you where grandpa had to raise some other man's child You will come up with another scenario as to why maybe he had another family Maybe but when it's the other way around we don't we're not we don't Default to come in up with other assumptions like for instance Grandpa beat grandma's ass.  We don't say no On the macro, that's not how those conversations are had but whenever it's time to acknowledge the ways that men are hurt We have to rational and it's not even a black thing. I think generally we don't know how to view men as victims We don't know how to view women as perpetrators So we will justify it in our mind as to why this man deserved X Y and Z or why he was morally unjust and he had it come in or whatever the case may be But generally we don't do that to women. All I'm asking is if we're gonna expect men to be To have softer hands to my analogy and to have more grace in the whole night We have to first of all acknowledge the reasons why whether Overtly or covertly women have also participated in the things that made our hands rough Now whether women asked us to go to war or whether women enjoyed the peace that was created from us dying It's part of it Right and all I'm saying is instead of this culture of well men need to be more and more and more We need to take a beat to acknowledge all the things that men for better or worse had to become for you What we need men to be we do harp a lot, I'll give you that but also During this entire conversation Yeah, you the men have told women what we need to do based on the larger grand scale But in the grand scheme of things The one sitting at this table don't share those grandiose ideas. Those are the everybody else has so is it really? Really on the grand scheme of everybody things like this or are we looking at? What social media is putting out there or just what you've come in contact with? Oh, no I was answering your question my mind in this but I was answering the question of how can men become more in touch with the feminine side grace How can men feel more comfortable not necessarily? Resting our value on how much we make or how tall we all and all that stuff grace because the reality is and this is part of What's not discussed a lot of young boys part of the reason why they grow up to be future and pimps in the whole nine Is because when they were growing up, they were gas lit They were told that you buy a girl flowers and you nice to her and all this stuff and she's gonna fall in love with you The reality is not that clean, but that's not our fault. I'm not no no no no I'm not saying it's your fault. I'm saying that you had a role in it So yes, it's the fact that their father wasn't there He was a Debbie whatever the case may be but a lot of these things were told by the mom and the mom was preparing him to Be a great man for a 30 40 year old woman without Acknowledging what he's gonna see at 16 at 20 and that's all I'm saying So when when this guy grows up and he's resentful of the gas lighting and the double-speak that he that he's heard From women is valid and he needs to be understood like you heard of the toy scenario Where women the way they grew up their toys were totally different from the men toys Like the men toys we play what we play with Tonka trucks We was always prepared to be in the workforce to be the providers the woman always played with the Barbie dolls So they had this illusion of Ken and Barbie This was a reality for women when they were growing up because they were taught to be able to look at men this way Mm-hmm, right so find you a kin Right that was the conversation in every household Micro on a grand scale on a grand scale because If you look at the the reality, right? Just got to look at the reality. We're not talking about the small minute realities we talk about the grand reality if You look at every conversation a woman is having She's going to choose her mate by what? his status So what Obi was saying is if you look in the animal kingdom, this is nature This has nothing to do dude like go back to the mackerel right if you go back to the mackerel I Want to hear what you have something you go back to the mackerel. Let's just take lioness and lions What do lioness do? They hunt for who? Their families no children Who's eating first the man But it's a woman hunting for the man, right? She's hunting for the man So how are we comparing? She's hunting for the man. That means the man He will help depending on the the size of the you know the the needs to be taken down but the reality is if There's a group of lioness three four to maybe one maybe one male maybe three males Right if the woman is going out and they're staking out dinner for the male And then they allow the man to eat before they even eat. That's nature. That's law Right, so if we look at that in every kingdom, but why though, right? Why why? I want her to answer 100. I wanted to see if you look at this clearly without feelings and emotions Mm-hmm, right not based on what you was taught and I was taught and we look at law and how things operate Then why do those things not fall in place when it comes down to man and woman in today's society logic? We have logic and reason. We're not animals. We have logic and no the jazz what you got Yeah, go ahead. You said let me say you said logic and reason Logic and reason was taught That's not divine nature So logic and logic logic and reason can only come from curriculum That has nothing to do with nature. So what I'm saying to you is let me if I walk you to an end of a mountain Do you have to have logic and reason not to jump off of it? Instinct it's instinct So it's totally different. You don't have to be taught that Yeah, our generals don't have logic and reason don't have logic reason.  We're having a conversation about around women and men characteristics You operate a certain way operate a certain way, right? That's based on curriculum. We're having debates and discussion based on curriculum. What is your divinity say? What is your divine nature say you supposed to be like when you meet a man? So Let y'all speak as men and get your points out When we talk about leaders Doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman a leader is not just somebody that's leading but somebody that can also take the backseat and learn That's a leader so To go on the point of When you were talking about how we've been conditioned to grow up, right? Like girls with the Barbies even in that Women have been Helping with sustaining the cycle of Making a man the leader Okay. Yes. So with giving you guys The hand up of being that leader that has trickled down into different consequences Which is a reflection of you as leaders So I guarantee if you were leaders that were saying I'm gonna work and I'm going to make this money And then if your partner too is making that money as well And you don't see her as a threat, but you see her as I'm not gonna say equal because we're different in our own ways Right, but if you saw it in that way rather than her being competitive to you and therefore you say in order to make me feel Powerful, you just got to be pretty you got to be nice. You got to talk to me a certain way then You know, that's what works for you as a man But if you would see it as where you guys can collaborate and help one another Things will look so different because then you're understanding from each other You're able to acknowledge this is who you are as a woman. This is what you can bring to the table This is who I am as a man and this is where I can bring to the table We can have productive conversations as to what each other really needs and what they want not based on what the society Tells you what you should be and how you have to be So a cycle has been created which has created all this rigidness of now Expecting a woman to make up for that rigidness that leaders that are male leaders Have created in this world when it comes to we talk about and I'm bringing this all together When we talk about our grandparents that were together and they had to be together That's because there were men that did not believe that women should be on their own They shouldn't be making money and that they should rely on a man to do so But now when she gets money or now there's that woman that came out that situation where she was shamed for Making more money or being able to do what a man does when she has taught another woman get your money Oh, and she's going for a man that's got the money now. She's a gold digger now. She's all these different things That was all a projection in a cycle that was created by male leaders that wanted to feel powerful Not It could have been I'm powerful and you're powerful. How can we be powerful together and make this work?  You don't have to do I think what's difficult though It's like just like I gave the example with the white women Women have helped establish and maintain patriarchy as well And we don't acknowledge that right and the reason why that's important is a lot of times We talk about these things as men created it so men need to fix it and then let us know right as opposed to Acknowledging the ways that we as women have also created and maintain this as well and how we as women our preferences our patterns Incentivize the very behavior from men that we claim to not want to see any more of There's a reason why some of the worst men you'll meet were raised by women Like we have to acknowledge the the the symbiotic relationship And the only thing I'm saying is like going back to the whole nature argument The reason in nature that the male eats first is because whether you look at the Lions whether you look at primates the male is tasked with protection So the reason you feed the male first it seems like I'll submission a whole nine is no So he'll have energy in case another lion comes and tries to kill us and eat our shit Especially with lions because lions fight to the death. So there's a utility even when you look at wolves, right? When a male wolf is challenging another male wolf the female wolf kind of snuggles under him and people look at her Oh, she's weak and she's docile. No, she's protecting his neck. There is utility to these positions Men and women are not equal in position, but they're equal in value and the point Value, okay, and the point that I've been making is Number one women. Can you please acknowledge the part that you played in us becoming this and Also acknowledge the part that you're going to have to play for us to be different That's it outside of that. That is it What if you want to see more more effeminate men if you want to see softer men if you want to see more Intentional men and deliberate men what needs to happen instead of all the time energy and effort women use to complain about The men who aren't these things, but they're still sleeping with them. Those are the men that still make them moist Those are the men they're going on dates with instead of that Maybe just like with nature survival of the fittest women dictate who gets replicated That's part of y'all strength If if if the female delegation said we don't want to see no more dark skin motherfuckers in a couple of generations, there will be no more dark skin Yes, it is I'm using I'm using that as an example But I'm using it as an exam because I mean skin is different But my point is the female delegation of any species is tasked with choosing who gets to mate and who gets to mate gets to Replicate, but what is the what is the curriculum that she's following? Because if males are the leaders you guys are saying this is what we created so choose from it That goes back to my point leadership is not just It's not one side and that's my because at the end of the day It's like when we blame the president for instance or the president did this and did that no we have to look at the Senate We have to look at the house of we have to look at the voters So similarly even though men because where the leaders have to own the blame Women have to acknowledge the part that they play so even with a small example of I want to see more emotionally intelligent men That's very simple once emotionally unintelligent men stop getting pussy there will be no more Emotionally unintelligent men that's power that women have no no no no no no no no no no no no I'm not saying you have to fix it. I have to I'm saying you have to stop incentivizing it Because just like we're leaders we follow y'all leadership in different dynamics have the power to change it but don't do it That's the thing when you look at society you look at how the world is going and the world operates Every man in this world you could probably see why does he choose his path of success? Every man has to choose what type of business he's gonna go in what type of job he's gonna have because he has to be attractive Attractive to a mate So I guess I don't hang with the man so feel this way I just so I'm learning so much at this this conversation right here that I did not know about women I personally met a guy who said And it's not verbatim, but he was like Based on my fight. He's like I wanted to find a woman that made me look good Absolutely, because I was not confident enough in My financial status, so I thought that she would make me look better.  Huh? Did you meet his dad? No, that's why because he wasn't raised by any male leadership say some bullshit like that That's the kind of energy that men are putting out here because they're being raised by y'all. Yeah, that's my point They have so so at the end of the day It's still a matter of yes We we women have to acknowledge that we accept and put up with things that cultivate and regenerate that re-energize these men that quote-unquote ain't shit but We're all adults Men have to grow up for themselves. They have to do the individual work. We don't we don't do that independent And this is as you know as somebody was born in Africa, this is what breaks my heart about some of the disconnection so I'm Ebo and You know in Ebo culture we have different kind of delegation So we have the chiefs the older men who you know run shit We have the king and the queen obviously, but we also have the warriors. That's the youth the young men They're the you know Shaka's who don't know fuckers and then we have a group called Umuada Umuada translates to first daughters. It's a delegation of women now on the face people would assume oh the chiefs make all the rules or The warriors make all the rules because they could fight in the whole nine But actually the most powerful group in this let's say you're running for a public office So you're trying to get influence the first place you have to go is the women Why is that? Because the women control the chiefs and the warriors because if they say y'all not eating this week What's gonna happen?  Women's strength is in their influence unfortunately In the in the in the context of this country women have gone away from that From the influence from the seduction and are now trying to assume a more domineering masculine I'm going to force you role And because of that you're not acknowledging the fact that you still have the power of influence You're just not you're either not using it or you're not using it properly. So when we're saying okay Y'all claim you want to see this type of man.  Let's be real is is It's immoral oki Because it's like you're you're acknowledging all the issues that come along with the disposition I've had to gain without acknowledging the fact that you selected me specifically for this and it's this idea that Good doesn't come with bad Like there's no there's no trade-off, right? I want a man who's running a multi-million dollar company But I also want him to be at every piano recital and it's like dudes feel like they can't win for losing And I know some women are reasonable enough to understand that that's illogical But the majority that we see are complaining about exactly who they selected us for being Do men go for those majority of women though like is that is that the type of mate you want to Well see the thing the thing though is like when it comes to Mate selection even even in an african context You evaluate your status as a man Based on the number of women that are attracted to you As a woman as a woman see this is what this that projection women's status is evaluated By the quality of man that is attracted and this is why any kingdom you look at What's the name of the the king's wife the queen What's the name of the queen's husband king no charles Oh Queens don't make kings kings make queens Now maybe that changes at some point But the reality of it is The reality we have to deal with is Yes, women's influence is different than men's influence women's power is different than men's power But you made us like this even in a white supremacist context we can go in a different direction You made us like that's that's very triggering. That is I don't like that. I don't like because there's no accountability there There's no accountability. This is a patriarchy. We have like this this country was founded on patriarchy On the male domination that made asserting his massileness on us And we had to adjust to that and then there was a period of adapting Where it got kind of convoluted and so that's where you're getting into the point of where okay now It's us that made you like this know for all these years patriarchy Women are now coming into their own and trying to figure out how to dissolve these years of having to be Holy subservient then going into being holy masculine and those are white women. Those are white women The the subservient holy.  Black women have never been subservient to us. No, okay So we're not journalized not back or anywhere. We're just on black. Well, so the reason I want to bring this conversation to black people Is because when we talk about patriarchy number one We do not acknowledge the part that women play in patriarchy and maintaining and upholding it and how women benefit from patriarchy Particularly in a racist context So my thing is and especially I think with our community when we when we think of toxic masculinity We think of a black man Even as black folks. I don't think that I don't I don't I think What I see is that Black people as a whole were divided and every and each person has had or male or woman had their traumas Their separate traumas the woman having to take care of the household The white man seeing the black man as a threat So therefore he put him through hell that in itself created this huge gap in between the two So I don't think of male masculine toxic So you're talking about divide and conquer. Yeah But but then if that's the case Why didn't you say that when you were talking about men fixing? patriarchy You we talked about it in a way where it's it's our responsibility to fix it without acknowledging that we're victims of it as well Particularly black men. Yeah, but yeah, absolutely agree on the whole we're all victims part It's just the I think the stance that we're I'm uncomfortable with is that It's saying that men give women grace and women don't give men grace because you're speaking from Like you said your male perspective And you don't know what grace looks like for us Giving to a man. So maybe that man that we're having that child with Has we've given the grace too And they were and they were I think Because we were we were in a position to where we thought like I said for me I got dated the one that I I saw what they could become they had less than me But I still was with them. Holy invested in my life and that's not grace. That's not great But I'm I'm working with you.  So I'm giving you these I'm making sure that you understand that you don't have to be This old gunko. I'm doing this thing But at the same time I'm having to I guess feed your ego like I don't I just don't understand how women are tasked with being the ones to Fix all these things and adjust us and acknowledge all these things But we're acting like women don't Give that grace. We don't acknowledge. We don't see it. Well, we just maybe sometimes it gets convoluted. We get lost in it That's the point that's the because My my my main point is like I don't think women are not giving grace. I don't I think women are giving the incorrect type of grace So what? Okay, okay, so that would be productive. I think that's fantastic. So number one Women should stop dating for potential and instead start dating for projection There is a narcissistic element of dating with potential Because you're assuming that you have the power in your vagina or in your spirit to transform a man From a dog to a teddy bear that's delusion to that is that is absolutely delusion and some of it comes from the trauma Right because when you are traumatized sometimes you escape to la la land A lot of our women escape to la la land and that's why they date for potential versus projection Now if women started dating for projection and understood that oh, he's not a software designer yet But he spends 50 hours a week on the computer trying to figure out code in the whole night He's gonna be there one day. I just need to do this I need to do this and I need to do this and I need to believe in his vision and get out of his way Right, but what tends to happen is Some women continue to date for potential Right and because of you're living in that fantasy of who you think he can be and that delusion of who you think you could be He's your son For all intents and purposes and you talk to him like that and you treat him like that And there is a there's a power dynamic that you're comfortable with and sometimes you take that established dynamic to a man with projection And now everything he says You sure about that? I don't know or you you revert to the the tone that you're talking about Because you have lost the ability to discern a man who actually wants it for himself versus one man who wants it for you Because a man who wants it for you is your son And I think that that level of great and then believing a man with projection over time number one The men with potential will stop mating Because they won't get any women because all the women are with the dudes with projection And the women are going to believe those dudes and talk to them like he's already president He's already the ceo. He's already this as opposed to projecting what you think he can be and over time Again, I'm not saying something that's going to have an open overnight Over time we're going to see better men We're also going to see better women because the women now are going to be able to rest in their belief And their respect of this man who's just he's a ceo and training. He's a he's a boss in training He's a president in training But what we see happen though is more of that energies being put into transforming men who are nowhere near They don't even have the desire for themselves So all I'm saying is women are powerful as shit for sure But I think some women have lost sight of what your power is and how it's best applied That's it. I'm gonna be a devil's advocate because my body knows me and you've been best in He's been years with and then when they have their final moment and they come up They leave you is this waiting to exhale waiting to exhale right here She is in my head burning that car right now That's gonna be episode two. Yeah, that's gonna be episode two remember that appreciate y'all Thank y'all some round of applause for y'all This is fantastic.   I appreciate the discussion that was had here. I think you all are highly intelligent Thorough people. Um, I appreciate the perspectives definitely the male perspective that came in here today. Um, we held it down to just Okay That's what happens you try to give them their praise and their grace and then they have to give it themselves So on that note, I'll say this was wonderful. I can't wait until next time his vulnerability That's a beautiful thing Exercise is my ability No, so like I said earlier, I learned a lot tonight. Yes, um I think you know, me being in my bubble of like my own marriage and not really looking outside of like what I experienced on a day-to-day um, I think has Um, I don't know. Maybe shelter me from a shelter me from a lot of things kept me saying Thank god, I thank god That you're taking you're taking but also but also like It's also kind of disheartening like people are really yeah people go through this But also like there's no There's no clear resolution in sight, which is why we're having this conversation to begin with um, but also I go back to like we all just want to be seen in her y'all like There's there's a little girl and a little boy in each of us that has you know, that's still like yearning for for that in different ways and it kind of um manifests in these relationships and unfortunately, you know everybody Everybody's human and we all bring our own baggage to whatever table we're coming to um, and It's just my hope and my prayer that As we evolve and as we continue to have these conversations that we do so in a manner of Just a willingness to be open to be vulnerable But also to you know stand firm on like what our true values are because to me If I say here here's Here is me here. I am and here's what I want And I'm just clear on that and I communicate that without any mask without any like You know hidden agendas or anything I believe that what I what I put out is what I am gonna attract too. So Yeah Well, I would say um For me, it was beautiful to have the conversation With the ladies and my brother over here I would say that vulnerability Is a superpower Based on it doesn't it doesn't matter based on the role, you know, whether it's coming from a man or a woman If we're able to have these conversations Uh, we can have impact You know across the board because that's what we want to do We want to be able to help influence other people who are going through some of these situations that we're going through an experience Some of the things that we're experiencing And we want to get the world the people that's going to watch the podcast A different Trajectory, you know on how men and women can actually have a conversation Uh about vulnerability Uh subjecting ourselves to hearing one another versus just hearing ourselves Because a lot of times we can get lost in a conversation When we only hear in ourselves But when we're willing to listen to what other people are saying Because like you said everybody comes with trauma different life experiences But if we're able to just be comfortable enough to be able to allow the women and men to communicate with each other in vulnerability I feel like we can have a great impact. Absolutely Doesn't Y'all know i'm a as y'all have seen today. I'm very passionate about this stuff But with that is because I do believe in the beauty of both male and uh female And with that is being able to have these conversations to put it on the table to be transparent to be vulnerable I also Want to say for men because I know how I can come off my delivery still working on it you guys but This is to say that It's just all to Help somebody to be a better person To be more self-aware of who they are and the people that they are around But then to also know that you're worthy And that you are enough as well Um to not forget that part the you know if I come off certain ways It's because it's like I believe in you you can do better. All the fellas is washing up. They get jazzed They're gonna be in there and and it's women and women and men whatever whatever you prefer, you know If the you are there is someone there to love you For who you are as a person, but doesn't mean you can be any kind of way now Okay, you got to do the work for yourself You got to you got to do that and that's tapping into places that also makes you uncomfortable And that's okay, but you know again I hope that this conversation at least has an impact on one person To want to be get uncomfortable And to and want to be better So just know that in the future it's all love and even present it's all nothing but love And just want you to be better and to be your better self and that's it All right now you got it. You got it You got time, you know what I'm saying I'll just say that this was definitely thought provoking And I think like what I've taken away from it is I think we all want the same thing Like coming from a man perspective coming from a woman's perspective I think we all want the same thing that's respect I think it's really respect if our differences But how our differences actually make us very powerful Like it's it's something powerful to be a woman and stand in femininity But it's also something very powerful to be a man and stand in masculinity I don't know what it is to stand in masculinity because I'm not a man But I know the power that I bring as a woman and I want to respect And I guess like learn Um the power of like a man like what a man brings in his masculinity. So I guess I'll just say like it was We we all want the same Thing but this said thing is going to be acquired differently Because we just stand from different positions and that's okay That is that is okay like we can celebrate our differences And I think if we did more of that like there wouldn't be this competition There it doesn't have to be a competition because I'm never going to beat you at being a man because I'm not a man You're never going to beat me at being a woman because you're not a woman You don't know what it stands like what it is to stand as a woman I don't know what it stands to be a man But what you can do is educate me on that and what I can do is educate you on what it is I need as a woman and I think if we We did that like just let's just educate each other on what we want and educate each other on how we can Get acquired this said thing that we all want how we can just get it together I guess that's how what I've taken from it like being the single pringle, you know I think that's um Yeah, that's what I've learned today Absolutely. I want to thank each and every one of you My goal for this and I'm hoping you show your husband this and and even some on the channel I think you'll be surprised But I think also to your point about you know the dating pool have have a pee in it You're gonna have a newfound appreciation for that man. Oh, yeah, right? I'm grateful and and you know my my big goal for this is that men Regain an appreciation of women And their power and their influence and women regain an appreciation of men And our power and our influence and also an empathy Right Absolutely like I want to do away with this idea that Some men have that they would be better women than women Or that women have that they would be better men than men, right? Because at the end of the day, we need each other and that's why we need to talk So I appreciate each and every one of you and episode two coming soon based on This brother, but yeah, that's that's uh, that's a wrap. That's a test with this one