Federal government okays pay rise for civil servants as they await Buhari's approval. Even as the Minister of Labour and Employment, Kristin Gige, says the incoming administration of the president-elect, Bola Tinabu, should start discussions on a review of the minimum wage currently obtainable in Nigeria immediately after its inauguration in May. This is Plus Politics. My name is Nyamy Ghul Agaji. The Minister of Labour and Employment, Kristin Gige, has revealed that the federal government has approved the pay raise for civil servants in the country. The minister said the salary increment became important in view of the current economic realities of the country. However, adding that the president, Muhammad Abu Hari, is yet to approve the percentage used for the increment. This is, as he noted, that the pay rise was already included in the 2023 budget and would take effect from January 1, 2023. Well, joining us live to discuss this is Nick Agule, a political analyst. Nick, good to have you join us on the show again today. Thank you very much for welcoming me. Good evening, viewers. I'm happy to be here. Okay. We don't seem to understand. Yes, we are happy that the pronouncement has been made. Even though it is just made and there is still a possibility that it will not come to pass. But I'm wondering, does the civil service not have rules that say you serve a particular time you are due for promotion? You serve for a particular time your salaries are due to be increased or something, maybe a particular number of years and the increment of salary and all that? Because we keep seeing these things in Nigeria, we hear that in the constitution or in some of our laws, it tells us that, okay, we need to be changing the Naira, for instance, the redesigning of the Naira after a particular number of years. We don't get to see that. And whenever we do it like we've done it like this, there's a problem. We know that a census is supposed to be taken every 10 years. We don't do it in Nigeria. We just do it at the time that we feel it is convenient. I think because I've not seen a real census for a very, very long time. Now we're talking about civil service salaries and it has to be announced first. And after the announcement, we are told that they still have not even decided on the percentage that they are going to use to do the increment. Is it that we do not have those covered by some rules, by some laws, and we just use our discretion to do this? Or why is it happening the way it is happening, Nick? Thank you very much for that question. The question raises a couple of issues which I will proceed to tackle. The first one is that an employee, when he gets a promotion, is expected to also have a salary raise to the new level where he is operating. And that only comes when the employee gets a promotion. In the civil service, for instance, I believe it takes about four years on one rank before you move promotion to the next rank, or you move on promotion to the next rank. So what then happens in between? What happens in between is that when you are on a salary, which is a static pay, and the inflation rate is rising, if your salary is not increased by the employer, at least by the inflation rate, then it means that you are actually taking a salary cut. How do I mean? Assume you are earning 100,000 Naira. And a bag of rice is 20,000 Naira.  Assuming, let's just use it for an example, that you are using all your salary to buy rice. You will buy five bags of rice, if due to inflationary pressure, the bag of rice increases from 20,000 to 30,000. Even though your salary pays sleep, we still read 100,000 Naira. When you go to the market, you will only be able to buy three bags of rice plus, not the five you used to buy. So your salary now can only fetch you three bags of rice, not five. Therefore, you are effectively taking a salary cut, even though you are still on 100,000 Naira. So for the employer to keep you in the same position that you were before inflation kicked in, they will need to increase your salary to 150,000. If they increase your salary by 150,000 and you go to the market, you will still buy five bags of rice at 30,000 Naira. So this is why salary increase during inflationary periods is very necessary. Because if you don't do it, you are actually sending the employees into poverty. And in Nigeria, as we speak now, we look at the headline inflation rate. It was single digit, gone to double digit, is now over 20%. So it means that whatever you are paying workers in Nigeria, 20% of it is already gone for inflation. So the workers in Nigeria are effectively on 80% of the salaries you see on their payslips. And this inflationary pressures have come from various ways. We used to buy diesel at 200, 250. Diesel is now 800, 900. It is the diesel that people who manufacture bread who produce all the other things that we use that are using. And they have passed the cost of that new increase into the cost of products that they are selling to workers. We now know that electricity tariff has gone off.  So all these things, even the exchange rate, which is used in importing goods for workers to buy, has gone off. So all these things have put so much pressure on employees that a salary increase is important. That is the first issue. The second issue, however, is that the way the federal government is caring about it. Now, the minister of labor says they have made a proposal to Mr. President to approve this salary increase. They have not approved it, but they have gone to announce it and traders in the market would have already started knocking in this salary increase into the prices of the goods that they are selling to workers. And the workers are yet to even see this salary. We don't even know if Mr. President will approve of it. So I know as a politician, the minister of labor is in a hurry to announce a government policy that he believes is a good one, that we want the hearts of people. But that process is not right. They would have waited for at least the president to approve it so that workers can start seeing the increase in salary in their paychecks before they would have started to talk about the fact that they have increased the worker salary. The third issue I want to raise is the timing. The timing of this salary increase proposal. Is it that the government that has watched for eight years workers suffering from increases in prices of goods and services because this inflation has been double digit for the entire eight years that this government has been in power. And they never bothered about increasing staff salaries. It's now that they are about to leave office when they were supposed to be writing their handover notes that they are now increasing salary to put an additional wage bill on the incoming government. So I don't even think that what they are doing is in good faith at all. So these are my views on this announcement that has come from the minister of labor. Okay, yes. I was going to that same point that you just raised here because whether it is approved or not, this administration will not be the ones to implement this. And so there is pressure on the next administration. But it gives us the impression that there's a possibility it may not even work. How will that translate to how the people of Nigeria will fare in the next few years? Granted, like you said, the traders have already factored in these salary increment that we have not seen, that the workers have not seen, the citizens have not seen, but they are there. We're not even talking about the traders only. What about the landlords? Who just get wind of salary increase and then they up their rents? To speak to you, there are some places that rents have gone up 300% overnight. So what can we do? What should the government do now? Because right now I feel there need to be some kind of damage control because that is what it is doing to our society right now. What can be done to control this trend that is likely to follow this announcement that may not even see the light of day? Thank you. Thank you very much. Because your question is on the measures that we are going to put in place. And when you say what can we do to control, there is a point that we need to raise before I will not answer your question. And that point is we have what we call galloping inflation. Galloping inflation is that this inflation is like a horse that is running away from you. As you are trying to meet up with the horse, it is running away from you. How do I mean? Government is increasing salary because inflation is happening. When you increase the salary that means more money is not chasing either the same quantity of goods or less goods in the market. That automatically will send the prices of the goods higher. The government will increase salary again and the prices of goods will also go higher. So as you increase the salary, the prices get up, you increase the salary. That is what we mean by galloping inflation. You will never meet it up. So what should we do? What Nigerian government should do is what we have been preaching for all this while. Nigerian government should increase, should create the enabling environment for increase in production. We have to increase production of goods and services. What I mean here is that let us take that in the market on a hypothetical basis for ease of analysis. In the market there are 100 bags of rice and people have 100,000 Naira to buy. That means each bag of rice will cost 10,000 Naira. Now if we increase the quantity of that rice to 200 bags in the market with the same 100,000 that people have they will buy a bag of rice at 5,000 Naira. So the increase in supply has brought down the price. It is a better way to control the inflation instead of salary increase. Now how do we then increase production? There are very basic things that Nigeria must do for us to increase production. And the first one is electricity. Electricity is the fuel that actually supplies life with the economy. As we speak today, Nigeria is generating and supplying about 3,000 megawatts of electricity to an economy of over 200 million people. In contrast, let me say something that will shock Nigerians. I am speaking to you now from London in the United Kingdom. The population of the United Kingdom is about 60 million, which is probably just a quarter of Nigeria's population. The land mass of the United Kingdom is also a quarter of Nigeria's land mass. But the United Kingdom is supplying 730,000 megawatts of electricity every day to this economy. Please compare 730,000 to 3,000. So we'll say a father who has six children is any 730,000 Naira. Then another father with 20 children is any 3,000 Naira. One, two, three thousand. Three thousand. What is that going to do? Nothing. Nigeria's economy will never grow and we keep preaching this thing. It will never grow until you give it fuel. Because electricity is like blood to the human body. Imagine a team of doctors, the best doctors in the world, gathered around the human body. And the human body does not have enough blood. And these doctors want to make this body to thrive. They want this body to do well. Their work will be in vain. If Nigeria increases electricity supply to even 30,000 megawatts, 30,000, I can assure you that production in Nigeria will rise astronomically. And as production rises, the prices of these goods in the market will keep falling. That is number one. Number two, Nigeria has one of the most fertile lands. All of the most fertile lands in the world. Because I used to work in the oil industry. I used to work here in London at the global headquarters of an international oil company. So I traveled to nearly 40 countries where this company operates. And I have seen many nations in the world and there is no nation that is as blessed as Nigeria. We can cultivate our land with mechanization.  We will not be exporting food. Nigeria will become one of the world's largest exporters of food. So instead of now looking for dollars to go and import food, we will be making dollars from food. You will see that the bag of rice today that is selling for 30,000, can even sell for 4,000, 5,000 naira. If we have so much of it being produced using the land that we have. And look at the youthful energy that we have that is doing nothing. So I'm just giving you a few examples of how if we increase production then the cost of living in Nigeria will fall. And not only that, the other side of it is that as we increase production, we are creating jobs, employment for the young men and women who are leasing a banner doing nothing. Because labor is a factor of production. And we're not using labor in Nigeria. So many graduates leave class and maybe a class of 100 will graduate. Maybe about 2 to 5 of them will get a job. The rest of them are just doing nothing. Imagine if we have 95 of them doing working immediately and just 5 of them still looking for work. You can imagine how much production that will be happening in Nigeria. So what can we do? The incoming government, because the Buhari government is already on the way out. We can't tell them anything again. They need to take care of the incoming government. They need to take care of the basic things. Increase electricity, bringing rain, boost agricultural mechanization, take care of law enforcement so that some militants don't come and drive farmers away from their farms. Those kinds of basic things you will see that Nigeria will take off and we'll start heading to becoming a developed nation. Before now, we had a problem of electricity that was even worse than we have. We hear that it's been increased and even though we are still so low, 3,000 megawatts as against 730,000 you said in the UK supplying only 60 million people. That is like 727,000 megawatts higher than Nigeria. But even then, with the production of megawatts we have in the electricity sector, a lot of people are even saying it's more cost effective if you operate without the electricity because the tariff for the electricity is so much. Are you saying that if electricity is generated more, if power is generated more, it will cost less? Because if it doesn't cost less, I'm not sure it's going to change much in the economy. It will cost far less. Let me give you a scenario. You know, we used to have only one NEPA. One NEPA for the whole Nigeria. That one NEPA was producing 3,000 megawatts. They had one managing director, a few executive directors and thousands of staff. The government now went to privatization drive that privatized both the generation sector and the distribution sector. In the generation sector, I can't remember the exact number of companies that are in the generation sector now, but I believe they should be up to like 9. You know, I don't have the numbers of it. That means 9 managing directors, 9 sets of executive directors and so many other paraphernalia of office. Let's go to the distribution sector. Again, the government privatized distribution. I still can't remember the total number of companies. Maybe there are 16. Distribution companies. In Lagos alone, there are two. mainland and Ikeja. I mean Ikeja and Ireland. These distribution companies, each of them have a managing director, a set of executive directors and all of that. But how much electricity is generated? 3,000. So you can see that the cost of production of this 3,000 has risen astronomically and output has not changed. So if output increases, then you need cost. We come down. So let us now say at 3,000 megawatts we are spending 3 million to produce it. So it then means that a megawatt is 100,000. Assuming we now increase that production to about 10,000 megawatts at a million, then it becomes 1,000 era. It's just the mathematics. It cannot be more than that. And look, we have a very classical example. Classical example in telecoms in this same Nigeria. I don't know how old you were then, but when I was growing up as a university undergraduate during that time we used to have what we call NITRE. And NITRE, they used to have these landlines that used wire to connect to somebody's house. And then they had the 0900, which was their own form of mobile phones. As at that time, Nigeria had a total of about 250,000 of those lines. And that was for the whole Nigeria. With NITRE, managing director, executive directors controlling it. We have to spend hundreds or thousands, as at then, to be able to get a telephone line. We stepped the emptiness of this world. From 250,000 lines in Nigeria. Today, Nigeria is almost getting 200 million lines of telephone. Almost 200 million. What is the cost of telephone in 90 days? A hundred and something thousand. The cost of getting a line Nigeria is almost 200 million. You can actually get a SIM card for free. And then you look for touchlight handset. You are already talking. In those days, that mobile phone was a big man. You remember that even the minister of telecoms in those days, David Mack, he made a famous statement that telephone is not for the poor. That's why he said if people had a handset in their hand, it was a status symbol. He said that market women, everybody have now only because the supply has increased. So that's what happens. So if we open up the economy and we are not producing humongous quantity of goods and services, the prices are going to crash. And not only that, we are going to be making foreign exchange from our exports. Now that we will be looking for money to chase the dollar to go and buy at high cost. We are being joined by Charles another public affairs analyst. And Charles, we are so glad to have you join us even at this moment. Welcome to the program. Thank you for having me, Mr. Wangu. Thank you to my co-guests. So right now we don't even know whether to shout hallelujah or to say we are dead because of the pronouncements of the federal government. They are saying that on the one hand, approval has been given. It has been approved that the salaries of civil servants be increased. On the other hand, the president has not even approved the percentage with which they are going to do the increment. Which means the approval is not complete. And now in the markets the word has already gone round that there is an increment an approved increment for the civil servants. That will start from January and all that. And we are just looking at everything and asking ourselves why did we get here? Does the government even really need to come to the public space and announce before increment of salary of the civil servants and all that? Because in Nigeria everything is fanfare. And I was asking Nick what can we do to douse the tension that will come with these announcements that is not even we are not even sure will come to fruition. What are some of the things that we should start doing now? What are some of the plans that we should put in place now? What can we hold the next government accountable for? As it regards the inflation rate, the salaries of the people who are working for the government and so many other issues. We are at the fixed point right now. Charles, what is your perspective? What do you have to say about this increment of salary that we may not even see? Thank you Mr. The number one part is that you have to look at the issues that we have grabbed even before increasingly made the statement, made on channels yesterday. The first was that the NRC has been talking about strike, going on strike to pick it for increasing the cost of the trade cost of premium motors all over the country. They have been also talking about a lot of issues that is making it difficult for workers to meet up with their own responsibilities. And they have been saying if you have been following the news that they are warming up first, the national strike. You also had the the NRC that he hopes that workers will not fulfill the threat of going to and backing on an industrial action. And now this happened and it premeditated this so-called plan to increase civil service salaries. Like you said and which is now my position stating that you are going to increase civil service salary and you have included it in the 23rd budget and not stating the percentage or the amount of such increment is just the way of the Bonari government of always trying to be clever by half. Now you saw what I narrated in the background I give the background I give about the federal government getting tired or getting afraid or jittery about an impending strike by the NRC. They have to do they have to make the promise made yesterday for me to placate the workers and make them not to carry out the threat of going to strike or backing on strike. For me it is just being clever by half. You have not stated how much the budgetary provision for 2023 that is a amount for such salary increment and if both workers you said it is taking off in January according to him yesterday you said it is taking off in January this is much civil service by this time should be at this time be expecting the third salary for the year 2023. I mean and you are still talking about not being sure of how much is approved for such increment. For me it is the workers should ignore it it is one of those ways the budgetary government tries to think that the rest of Nigerians particularly civil servants are not smart, they are not clever and it is also the budgetary government always being clever by half. Mr Wangu and the rest of Nigerians including those who are watching this program will agree with me that every attempt by the dissent government which has present Muhammad Buhari as the minister of petroleum to regularize for a price now has proved about it. The years they've been selling 195 in Abuja so I'm placing the selling 200 but the first I bought on Sunday morning which finished today for 280 Naira in a point state I'm not clicking to be precise there are places they are still selling for for 300 Naira and the minister of petroleum is not addressing these core issues that is even the core issues that should be addressed for workers to now have a leverage so that even if you increase the salary by say 5% it will be meaningful in the economic market of today. It will be valuable to all and Sunday including the commercial or the paper seller in the market now you've not addressed the core the real issues which is even the globalizing the core price it would have been better for the federal government to say okay 4% is going for 250 Naira or 209 Naira per liter or 260 Naira let there be a bank on price for it and people will understand it to be a crossbow but as I speak with you the price they are selling in levels Abuja protocol is different from the price they are selling in similar levels of the country that is hypocrisy taking to a new level so I don't think the workers should celebrate about this announcement by Chris and Kay I also sympathize with workers because the grand seller in the market is already like you said carrying the news that salaries have been increased generally salaries you pay it is the same rate okay for the months we paid this is the percentage and this is how we now intend to augment the months we paid you based on this increment so the grand government has simply made this promise or if it has increased it would have been taking through the back door like it has always done in other areas the other areas we know where salaries have been increased or funds have been provided like in the case of IMEC 400 billion dollars provided for elections and we saw what was worse in history than before so I only sympathize with the NRC leadership because with this now people will say oh they said they want to increase their salary why go on protests why pickets why go on an industrial action so for the minister of labor in his capacity and in his personality in his official capacity to have made a pronouncement that was so vague so looking like the rest of us don't understand what it means to say you have a salary increment you didn't even say it is by 3% or by 5% or by 10% so the minister of labor can now sit down with this what I'm expecting now where this is the result takes place is that my salary is going to go from maybe 85,000 plus 5% which will now bring it to maybe 100,000 and it cannot bring it to plan its life based on that and the year is almost 3 months of the year is almost gone you have 9 months to go so where have the so called proposal increment for the months of January and February where has it been double period ok Nick let me come to you ok sorry let me go to Nick this is a simple question I just want to get an answer to this salary increment from what I was talking earlier and all that I just want to know is it a right or a privilege for workers Nick it is a right for the workers every worker deserves his or her due wage so if you employ somebody you have to pay them to employ somebody and not to pay them if it was in a country like the UK where I'm speaking to here now it's a criminal offence if the workers report you to the authorities the authorities are going to take action against you if you don't have money to employ people then don't employ them or if you employ people and then you now realize that your business is not doing well then you have to find a way to cut costs to keep your employees or you have to release some of the employees so that they can go to where they will be paid so even in the Bible the Holy Scripture says that every worker is due their wage so for employers in Nigeria especially the government that have been owing workers there are states where you hear that workers have been owed for one year, two years and all of that it's sacrilege so anybody that has been employed they are right to be paid we understand Nick just a moment Nick we understand a laborer deserves his wages and the government to be fair let's say they are paying them let's not even think about whether they are owing them we're not even talking about the retirees and all those people who some of them have been owed for 30 months and all that people who really need the money even more than the people who can still have some side hustle I'm asking about this salary increment because the way it is made to look like is that we feel your pain and that's why we are doing this out of the goodness of our heart is that what it is or it is the right of the workers for this increment the right of the workers to demand for the increment like I said in the opening remarks that I had a salary that is not increased but at least the rate of inflation leaves the workers poorer so you can be paying somebody 100,000 and you actually give them physically 100,000 every month if in the market the inflation is rising that person is only going to be able to buy less and less and less on what they would buy with their salary with every succeeding month that is why the inflation ratio be the minimum benchmark for employers to increase worker salaries to keep their situation the same and there are jurisdictions where governments have very strict measures in terms of minimum wage like in Nigeria nobody is enforcing minimum wage and at the end of the day the minimum wage is only being paid by the government if you look at all of those people who are in the informal sector some of them are being paid 100,000 there are people who are being paid 5000 a month especially if the employer provides them accommodation and things like that the employer should actually enforce minimum wage so that whoever is employed needs to be paid that and whoever is employed needs to get their salary increased to match the inflation rate even if it is not 100% of the inflation rate there should be at least some increment to ensure that the workers are not left to wash off so it is a right for workers as far as I can see that their salaries need to be increased let me come to you for your closing remark this has been said in public glare and everything but let me take comments from both of you to Nigerians who might be thinking that there is a different development I don't want to call it a better development something better coming it may be something good it may not be something good but Nigerians need some words that will keep them going so let me start from you as a wrap up from you thank you very much for Nigerians particularly the workers they should continue to be hopeful hopefully besides that the general situation of the country the gloom that is all over if you add the gloomness of what is happening around you it will also lead to depression, anxiety and a lot of that so for them and for a couple of Nigerians we should trust that things will get better that is number one secondly I would appreciate personally if the progress in the game will give a detailed press statement or a press conference that is partiating on what is said on China's traditional history because a lot of persons a lot of times they just pitch out comments sometimes they don't know the implication as far as we are concerned if you put on Google the issue about salary increment you are still going to be referred to what he said that was published on daily trust around December last year where he said the federal government was not contemplating any implement of a worker salary of any kind now if you if we should place that side by side $30,000 a month wish place side by side with the cost of a bag of ice a bag of apacic key rice now costs almost that amount of money monthly minimum wage of $30,000 so work with the average family too with such amount of money the problem here Mr. Wampoo and the rest of customers and viewers of this program is not that we are in luck we are not in luck if the $400 billion that was spent on I-Leg was even used to just maybe 10% of it let me say 20-30% of it was used to take care of these workers who were in having about $40 billion if you plunge in $40 billion especially to the eminence of civil servants in the country they would have been awesomest so let us continue to be optimistic and hope that this will change for the future in this country Nick, a final word from you to Nigerians and even the government as briefly as possible thank you very much my final word to Nigerians is that it is good that we should stand up and fight for our rights Nigerians have sat back and absorbed all sorts of things thrown at them by the leaders so now that the the labor union wanted to take action on the currency scarcity and now the government is talking about salary increase so this is what you get when you stand up and agitate for your rights as we speak today France is boiling because the people of France are agitating for their rights that's a developed nation so even in the developed nation where systems work and everything it takes the people's protest for government to shift to the government that as much as they want to increase worker salary they have to match that vis-à-vis the quantity of goods that are being produced in Nigeria goods and services because in years past we have what we call Udoji Award where government will call one day and put so much money in the hands of workers which have commensurate increase in the quantity of goods and services that were produced and that thing led to big inflation that has lived with Nigeria till now so increase salary but make sure that you also boost production and watch the quantity of goods that are in the market ok thank you very much gentlemen Charles O'Too and Nika Goulay for coming on the program and giving your perspective on this announcement on salary increase thank you so much for being a part of this today's program thank you for having me thank you so much have a good evening you too ok we'll take a very short break looking at the security situation it was a discussion we held yesterday but it's still very relevant today and we're hoping that you're going to stay with us


Minister of State, Health and Family Welfare Government of India to formally inaugurate the Shahid-Rendomaji Medical College and Hospital Kalahandi. FTIM We have made special contributions in economic development of this medical college by allowing more than one钱 in our wealth heaved in total. We also könntenmijob providing services in the name of the FTIM in hospital care and their由ciberhood tokeley. We are focusing on education officials in the country but are also focusing on local health and development of medicine.


It's now time for question period, the leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Bill 122 is a failure. It caused the longest teacher strike in 25 years. It caused the government to walk away from negotiations multiple times. And it has now cost the people of Ontario millions of dollars to pay for this government's failed bargaining process. The Liberal government gave $1 million to OSSTF, $1 million to ECTA, and half a million dollars to EFO. Mr. Speaker, this side of the house may find that funny. I do not. Will the Premier tell the House where did that money come from? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. So I'm going to just take a moment to go a little bit back in history because, Mr. Speaker, I think it's important for everyone to understand the context. There was a time in this province, Mr. Speaker, when school boards had a different role to play. School boards had the opportunity to fund education at the local level. They had taxing authority, Mr. Speaker, and each year they would go to the municipality and they would express their concerns and their desires for an increase in the mill rate, and then there would be the appropriate money that would flow to the school board. Mr. Speaker, that was all changed when the previous Conservative government took that right to allocate money to raise taxes in their jurisdictions. Right after I say order, somebody starts. The member from Leeds-Grandville will come to order. At that time, Mr. Speaker, a number of us were involved in the debates in our communities, whether as school trustees or whether as parent advocates, Mr. Speaker, and we said, you know what's going to happen now. You're going to have to have a provincial process because if the funder is only the province, then there needs to be a provincial process. And I'll follow up on the supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again to the Premier, I'm going to try to rephrase this in terms that are quite direct. We know these payments are a small part of the story, but the government didn't negotiate alone. They had other groups on their side of the table against the unions. The Ontario Public School Board Association, the Ontario Catholic School Trustees Association, as several all negotiated on behalf of the province as part of the flawed two-tiered bargaining system. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier tell us how much money did the Liberal government give those associations to negotiate these contracts? Where did the money go to? Where did it come from? Please enlighten the House. So Mr. Speaker, I need to continue to lay out this history because when the leader of the opposition, the chaos that the leader of the opposition would have experienced when he was in high school, Mr. Speaker, was actually created because of those changes that were made by the previous government. We were many of us involved, as I say, in warning the government of the day that there would have to be a provincial process to take into account the fact that the taxing authority had been taken away from the school boards. So Mr. Speaker, for a number of years when we... We're inching closer to warnings. So for a number of years, Mr. Speaker, when we came into office, we were dealing with the aftermath of that reality. And everyone knows it's very difficult to undo a structural change by the one that was made by the previous government. So we've worked closely with all of our education partners to develop the School Board's Collective Bargaining Act, and that's what's important. It's needed to be a provincial process. We work with our partners to set it up. Final supplementary. Mr. Speaker, again, for the Premier, all things being equal, it's safe to assume that this government would have given the other associations the same payout they gave the unions. That means the Liberal government could have spent well in regards to $5 million for their mistakes, for their flawed bargaining process. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier answer two simple questions? And I'll try again. How much money did she pay the unions and their associations for their bargaining costs? And number two, where did that money come from? Direct question. Please answer. To come to an agreement, we're talking about is it $22 billion, $23 billion? The $23 billion endeavor, Mr. Speaker, in Ontario. That's what publicly funded education is. The member from Leeds-Grenville is warned. Finish. We need a working partnership with our education workers, with trustee associations. The legislation that we put in place helped to establish a process that was made necessary, because of the changes that had been made in the structure of school board governance. It formalizes that legislation, formalized an informal process that had been necessary to put that provincial process in place. And in 2004, 2008, 2012, those provincial discussion processes were different because the changes had been made. We had to create that provincial process, Mr. Speaker. We did it. Thank you. Do you have a question? The Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, my question is again for the Premier, and since she has no interest in talking about the $1 million payout, let's talk about the Hydro-1 fire sale. The people of northern Ontario stand to become some of the hardest hit by the sale. Small communities scattered throughout the north rely on Hydro-1 transmission lines to power their homes and businesses. While those lines might not be profitable for Hydro-1, the cost is offset by the profits that Hydro-1 was making in highly populated areas, like Brampton. But this Premier has already sold off Hydro-1 Brampton, so the ability to subsidize for more expensive transmission is gone. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier guarantee the residents and businesses of northern Ontario that her fire sale of Hydro-1 isn't going to drive Hydro-prices in northern Ontario through the roof? Mr. Speaker, I know the Minister of Energy is going to want to comment on the details of the process that we're undergoing, but I will just remind the leader of the opposition that the decisions that we have made around broadening the ownership of Hydro-1, the protections that we are putting in place are a direct result of lessons that we learned in the fire sale that that party put in place when they sold off the 407, Mr. Speaker. We made it, we would not undergo such an initiative that would not put protections in place for the people of Ontario, Mr. Speaker, that the way that Hydro rates are determined, Mr. Speaker, is through the Ontario Energy Board. Mr. Speaker, we made it very clear that we would guarantee that there would be access to reliable power across this province. Mr. Speaker, supplementary. Come here from Nipissing. Come to order. Supplementary. Mr. Speaker, again to the Premier, to get nuclear power produced from the Darlington Generators to Timmins, Ontario, power must travel over 600 kilometres. Building 600 kilometres of transmission lines is incredibly expensive, and the return on the investment for Hydro-1 is minimal. If a private company is faced with a similar decision to build 600 kilometres of power lines to reach a Northern community like Timmins, they may just say no. They will say no, even though those transmission lines are in the best interest of Northern Ontario. So Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. When faced with the choice between what's in the best interest of Northern Ontario and what's in the best interest of a private company, if that private company chooses an approach that is not in the best interest of Northern Ontario, will you do the right thing and tell them to build those transmission lines? Mr. Speaker, there are members of the Progressive Conservative Party across this province who are wondering where this leader stands. His party has a specific policy, Mr. Speaker, to broaden the ownership of Ontario power generation, broaden the ownership of Hydro-1, Mr. Speaker, to sell shares to the public, Mr. Speaker, and it specifically says they will rely on the Ontario Energy Board to regulate rates. That is their policy. If he is now disavowing his own party's policy, let him stand up and say so, Mr. Speaker. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. I have something to say, but I'm waiting until I have attention. The Minister will withdraw. Withdraw? Thank you. And as far as the rest of it is concerned, shouting people down is not what this place is about. Final supplementary, please. Mr. Speaker, back to the Premier. Ontario's economic prosperity was achieved because of successive PC governments who understood the availability of affordable power was good public policy. The loss of majority control of Hydro-1 means the government loses the ability to... Start the clock. Order? Start the clock. Please put your question. Mr. Speaker, I didn't realize the pitch for affordable energy would strike such a nerve. The loss of a majority control of Hydro-1 means that the government loses the ability to expand transmission lines as a matter of good public policy. If a privately-owned Hydro-1 feels the expanding transmission lines to the Ring of Fire, for example, it's a bad decision for a private company. Remember from Trinidad and Spadina, come to order. And that's bad news for Northern Ontario. Very bad. Doesn't this side get it? This is going to affect Northern Ontario? Mr. Speaker, will the Premier acknowledge to the House today this might hamper the ability to see the Ring of Fire come to a realization that... Minister? Mr. Speaker, the member does not know what's going on in this House. He doesn't realize, Mr. Speaker, that there's a bill ready to be approved in this House that will give the Cabinet the authority to designate where transmission will go. Not Hydro-1, Mr. Speaker. We're doing that to protect the public. There are many things we're doing with respect to broadening the ownership of Hydro-1 that give control over planning, Mr. Speaker, over what's happening in the sector. He does not know what the IESO does in terms of planning. He's not aware of the legislation that's going on in this House, Mr. Speaker. He should go back and do some research. Start the clock. New question, later with the third party. Thank you very much, Speaker. My question is for the Premier. The Premier has said that deciding to sell off Hydro-1 was a difficult decision. And despite overwhelming opposition from the historians that it was necessary because there just wasn't any other way to get the money, Speaker. The new federal government has already pledged $2 billion for GO Transit in the GTHA and $2.6 billion for SmartTrop, which must come as an enormous relief to the Premier because now even she has to admit that she doesn't need to sell off Hydro-1 after all. Will this Premier do what is right for Ontario? Stop the sell-off of Hydro-1 and negotiate a fair deal for infrastructure with the federal government. Thank you. I have a responsibility at the provincial level of government to build infrastructure to make investments that are necessary across the province. I would argue, Mr. Speaker, that it's the same responsibility that the municipal governments have. And I know municipal governments across this province are taking that responsibility very seriously. It is terrific now, Mr. Speaker, that we now have a federal government that understands that they need to partner with provincial and municipal governments, Mr. Speaker. It's not up to one level of government. It is our responsibility to continue to implement our plan to live up to the commitments that we made to the people of Ontario. And that is exactly what we're going to do, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. Well, Speaker, I wish the Premier could hear herself because she sounds ridiculous. 40% of Ontario municipality speaker have asked this Premier to stop the sell-off of Hydro One. She used to say what for a federal partner she wouldn't have to... Stop the call, please. Order. Please ask. She used to say that because there was a lack of a federal partner she had to sell off Hydro One. But now she has the federal partner and she's still saying she has to sell off Hydro One. Speaker, it makes no sense whatsoever. 80% of Ontarians don't want her to sell off Hydro One. I would have thought it would have come as a relief to this Premier that the federal commitments infrastructure actually resolved her to sell off Hydro One. She should be standing up for what is right for Ontario and she should be ensuring that those federal dollars come for our infrastructure process, for our infrastructure needs and that that money moves quickly. Does she believe that Ontario's fair share is coming? Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I stand up for the people of Ontario every single day. I continue to do that while I am in this job, Mr Speaker, because that is what has led us to the plan that we are now implementing, Mr Speaker. We know that the investments that are necessary in this province are investments in roads and bridges and in transit, Mr Speaker. We know that we have to invest in people's talent and skills and draw business to this province and, Mr Speaker, a cornerstone of that economic viability is our infrastructure investment. In the same way, Mr Speaker, that when we came into office municipalities didn't throw up their hands and say, oh well, we're not going to continue to invest in our people or stand up for our communities. They continue to do their work. We are going to continue to do our work but now we have a partner at the federal level that's going to work with us, Mr Speaker. Final supplementary. Talking about standing up for Ontarians and actually standing up for Ontarians are two different things that this Premier should be doing. The Premier sees the government to plow ahead despite the fact that the federal government will be providing over $400 million annually in a new infrastructure program. If the Premier isn't going to listen to Ontarians, then the people have to wonder who the heck she is listening to, Speaker. Will she finally do what is right? Stop the sell-off of Hydro-1 and get to work ensuring that Ontario's fair share of federal infrastructure money flows. Let's just analyze exactly what the leader of the third party is suggesting. She's suggesting that we basically go tools down on the projects that are... The conversation that's going on between the member from Essex and the Minister of Government service is distracting. Please finish. She's suggesting that we just put tools down on the projects that are in the works, Mr Speaker. She's saying we just sit back now and abdicate our responsibility to make the investments that we have committed to the people of Ontario, Mr Speaker, that we not continue to work with the communities in the northwest of this province, Mr Speaker, that we not continue to work with the communities in the east and the southwest to invest in their infrastructure and their roads and bridges and their transit, Mr Speaker, but that somehow we just wait for the federal government to come to the table. They're going to work with us, Mr Speaker, but we have a responsibility. Thank you. Your question will be with Mr Tawny. Thank you, Speaker. My next question is also for the Premier. During the last general election, the Premier and her Minister of Health said that they would not cut frontline care and that they would not cut frontline care. There have been 625 registered nursing positions eliminated in Ontario's nursing workforce. This amounts to the loss of more than one million hours of RN care for Ontario patients. These aren't my number, Speaker. These are the numbers provided by the nurses who are here in the gallery today. Will the Premier explain to these nurses why it is that the government is breaking their promise and cutting nursing positions in the province? I want to speak to this in the supplementary, but let me just be clear that there are 24,000 more nurses working in Ontario today than there were in 2003. There is a transition in communities where there is more community care that is being set up, Mr Speaker. We understand that hospitals are working and that we need to continue to work with the lens, with the hospitals in this province, with the community providers, Mr Speaker, to make sure that people get the care that they need when they need it and where they need it, Mr Speaker. But there are 24,000 more nurses in Ontario than there were in 2003, Mr Speaker. We have added to that complement. We will continue to increase healthcare funding in this province, Mr Speaker. As we go through the transformation, that is required because of the demographics in this province. That is the responsible thing to do to make our healthcare system sustainable and to allow it to thrive. Mr Speaker, Ontario patients deserve more nursing hours, not less. The scientific, as evidence is clear, every nurse being cut out of our hospitals puts patient care and patients lives at risk.  The Liberals have tried to deflect blame to our hospitals, to the lens, to anybody else that they can point to, but they have frozen hospital funding for four years. The longest unbroken period of real-dollar public hospital cuts in Ontario's entire history. Will this Premier commit to stopping nursing cuts and to providing Ontario's hospitals with the funding that they need to provide proper nursing levels? Thank you, Mr Speaker. And I want to start by welcoming our nurses here, Linda Hassenstraud, presenting the Ontario Nurses Association today. And she's brought with her, importantly, registered nurses from right across this province. And I know they had a press conference this morning to express the concerns that they have with regards to retaining nurses in our hospitals and other environments to the work that we've done but need to continue to do to stabilize the nursing workforce across the province. We've made significant investments to help the workforce, but we do know that there is much more work to do. And I've reached out to Linda today and indicated I know that she's anxious to meet with me, and I've committed to meeting with her to talk specifically about that issue of stabilization and nursing retention, the work, the important, the vital, critically vital work that our nurses, our RNs do in our hospitals as they do right across the province. And I'm prepared to talk more in the supplementary. Thank you. Final supplementary. We've specialized skills that are crucial to complex patient care. But the share of RNs in Ontario nursing's workforce is falling. And we have the second worst RN ratio in Canada with less than one nurse registered nurse per 100 people. Nurses are suffering from increased workload speaker, from epic stress, from burnout, and a deep professional concern from seeing patients not receiving the care that they need. And anybody who has been in hospital recently, over the last couple of years in fact, and talked to the nurses who are working in the hospitals, they will tell you the same thing.  Well, Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that Ontarians do understand. I've got the figures of four RNs in this province right in front of me for the last five years. And in every single one of those five years, the number of nurses, the number of RNs, specifically working in this province, has increased year over year over year. Every single year in the last five years up until the most recent data, which is 14-15 of course. And I also want to remind Ontarians that in fact it was under an NDP government in the 1990s where there were 3,000 fewer nurses working in this province from the beginning to the end of their tenure in government. The number of RNs in Ontario fell by almost 3,000 persons in this province under the RN. And of course the PCs, we know the PCs fired 6,000 nurses and referred to them as obsolete hula hoops. But Mr. Speaker, I commit to working with Ona as any response the government should. We continue to work hard to stabilize the RN workforce. I've committed to working with Linda and her team to see how specifically we can work on this challenging new detention. Thank you Mr. Speaker. My questions to the Premier. For weeks following the tragic deaths in the Ottawa Valley, I asked the Attorney General and the Premier on how they intend to act on the recommendations made by the Domestic Violence Death Review Committee. They have yet to provide an answer. According to the chair of the local community policing advisory committee, Renfrew County's single probation officer is overloaded because of the failings of this Liberal government. The province's lack of support to propose probation and parole services in places like Renfrew County is the reason why repeat offenders like Mr. Borowski have not been more closely monitored. Mr. Speaker, why has the Premier failed these victims by refusing to allocate the adequate resources to ensure that violent offenders are more closely monitored? Thank you, Speaker. I have received a copy of the October report on domestic violence with respect to what the coroner's work has done in this regard and it contains a number of government-wide recommendations which I have reviewed and as I've said before, here is a very serious issue and should not ever be tolerated in Ontario and we all have the responsibility to find out what else we can do and the report, as a member opposite I'm sure knows, highlights the importance of public education and preventing domestic violence and in terms of what happened in Ontario, the tragic incident that happened in Renfrew County I did speak to the Executive Director of the Sexual Assault Center here and while we have a number of initiatives to support women and men who face domestic violence we know there's more to it as well. Thank you. Well Mr. Speaker, I'd like to go back to the Premier. Really it is a matter of priority and I appreciate the Minister of Women's Issues about the shelters. This is a very much a serious matter that the government has not provided resources to ensure that Ontarians can live in their homes without fear and in the 2012 your government's own report from the Review Committee recommended that supervision for offenders on probation would benefit from ongoing collateral contacts to confirm the status of the offender the report also said that when an offender fails to meet the terms progressive enforcement must align with the level of risk. The oversight that is currently in place is just not acceptable. Three women have lost their lives because of this government's inaction and since I've been asking the question so why does the Premier refuse to recognize the needs of the probation officers in Ontario so this doesn't happen again the question Minister responsible hold on Minister responsible for women's issues Well Speaker the needs in rural Ontario are acute and real and that is why the Minister of Community and Social Services and her ministry has invested significantly in terms of shelters in fact and and services which are an increase of 61%. It's 2003 and I just want to highlight Speaker if I may when the PCs were in power they cut shelter services by 29% in one year alone. They eliminated all counseling Order Finish please and that list unfortunately goes on and on in terms of the cuts that were faced by that sector however Speaker our commitment is to supporting women who face sexual and domestic violence we have our sexual violence action plan and a permanent round table New question, the member from My question is to the Premier Speaker since the beginning of the process the Minister of Education has failed to do her job when it comes to bargaining the Minister has been playing games first with major delays and with her own so called confusion about what was being negotiated at each of the tables class sizes, professional development delays, net zero agreements not to mention the various different versions of the story we have heard over the past year the Minister has no credibility anymore the Minister will say or do anything to save face the result chaos in our schools will the Premier admit that her Minister of Education has failed our kids families and that she has lost all credibility Minister of Education Thank you very much and actually I would note that the Ontario Labour Relations Board actually agreed with my version of what was going on last spring so she might reconsider that question but I will talk to you Speaker what I would like to say we obviously have three outstanding contracts that we need to get agreement with the Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario QP, the education workers and the OSSTF education workers and what I can say to the house is that in each of those cases we have either established states or the mediator is actively working to sort out the dates that people so that in fact in all three of those instances negotiations will continue that's how we get agreement Thank you In fact yesterday in Scrum the Minister said there were six outstanding agreements so thank you for making my point Speaker back to the Premier it's clear these negotiations have been botched from the very beginning since day one all of us in this house and across Ontario have been hearing excuse after excuse from the Minister the Minister hasn't been taking negotiations seriously she's been blaming everyone except herself being perplexed about the facts when it came to tough issues forcing kids to pay the price while chaos flourished in our schools due to her inability to bargain effectively Speaker the Minister simply doesn't have credibility anymore it's time for her to go my question is simple will the Premier tell her Minister of Education to resign immediately Thank you Minister Okay so let's get an update on all nine of the tables here okay so we have three tables where we have ratified collective agreements those are the teachers in the English public the English public secondary and both French systems all of those teachers we have three groups that are engaged in job action which are the people who I am concerned that we get back to the table with that's the elementary teachers QP and the OSSTF education workers we either have dates or we are working with the mediator on establishing dates with all three of those we have three other groups with whom we are continuing to negotiate in fact one of them is at the hotel today the other three groups who are all education workers we also need to get agreements with and we are negotiating with them and we are not having job action with them that's the update Thank you Any questions to members from the new market award Well thank you Mr. Speaker my question is for the Minister of Energy Minister I know that as we move to broaden the ownership of Hydro 1 the mechanisms of oversight are changing to to those that apply to publicly traded companies as part of our government's commitment to transparency and accountability Hydro 1 will be required through legislation to create an internal ombuds person who would report publicly and continue to protect consumers The Minister has previously informed us that Hydro 1 has been working closely with the former auditor general to ensure that terms of reference for the position are appropriate adequate resources will be provided and that the successful candidate has the prerequisite skills and experience to successfully successfully perform this important role Mr. Speaker could the Minister please inform the House if there is an update on Hydro 1's search for an ombuds person Any questions? Thank you Minister of Energy Thank you to the member for a new market Mr. Speaker Yes we asked Denny Dezotel former auditor general of Canada to oversee the establishment of the ombuds person's office to ensure transparency and accountability for customers and we are pleased that Hydro 1 has selected a very strong professional and experienced ombuds person in Fiona Kreen most recently the ombuds person for the city of Toronto As Hydro 1's new ombuds person Ms. Kreen will provide an independent professional perspective on matters referred to her by Hydro 1 customers She will also establish an appeal process for unresolved complaints to the independent Ontario Energy Board Ms. Kreen will report directly to the Board of Directors in order to ensure independence and to allow the Board to provide strong support for any recommendations made Thank you Supplementary Thank you for the update Minister It's great to hear that Hydro 1 with the assistance of Denny Dezotel has managed to hire such an excellent and experienced candidate as Fiona Kreen It is reassuring to hear that as Hydro 1's new ombuds person she will report publicly in order to continue to protect consumers Now that Hydro 1 has selected Ms. Kreen as its new ombuds person Hydro 1 must ensure that the office is established in such a fashion that it ensures independence and accountability I know we've asked Denny Dezotel to oversee the establishment of the ombuds person's office to ensure transparency and accountability Mr. Speaker, through you could the Minister inform the House as to Ms. Kreen's experience as an ombuds person as well as if she has any experience in establishing and setting up an ombuds person's office? Mr. Speaker, Ms. Kreen was appointed by Toronto City Council as Toronto's first ombudsman in November 2008 The office began to offer services on April 6, 2009 I might add for members that she prefers the term ombudsman and so henceforth I'll refer to her as ombudsman rather than ombuds person by her choice Mr. Speaker She brings to this position decades of professional experience dedicated to fairness in government and social justice She also established the office of ombudsman for York University and was executive director of the Ontario ombudsman's office This background has given her significant experience in conflict resolution and the promotion of accountability and responsiveness by large organizations Ms. Kreen will ensure that Hydro One customers will continue to be protected and to ensure that any concerns are being heard and acted upon an excellent choice by the Board of Hydro One Thank you Thank you Speaker My question is to the Attorney General The minister committed to me in this house on Tuesday to bring forward my concerns to the Chair of the Safety Licensing Appeals and Standards Tribunal for short Jeffrey Furlen and Canadians for Property Built Homes have been requesting the transcripts from a proceeding at the LAT for over a year The request has been met with a year of silence The apocryphal element of this story is that the LAT insisted in February that the transcript was lost But they are also now telling the plaintiff copies may or might be obtained by filing a freedom of information request Transcripts of testimony and evidence are essential and they must be available or access to justice is denied Speaker, is the minister's Tribunal purposely suppressing these documents or are they totally incompetent and have lost the transcripts Thank you Attorney General Thank you Mr. Speaker for the question Mr. Speaker Administrative Tribunal they year 180,000 cases a year So it plays a vital role in Ontario justice system Tribunals are used their specialized expertise to educate on a wide variety of disputes in an independent and impartial matter So our government has built an effective and efficient accessible administrative justice system and on this side of the house you know like if the member opposes it as a problem of one of a constituent as a problem I invite them to write directly to the chair of the Tribunal We have very competent people on the Tribunal We have a very competent chair and they always work to improve the system Thank you Again to the Attorney General I guess you didn't hear my first question They have met with a year of prolonged silence Speaker, the minister disagreed with me on Tuesday when I suggested our tribunals to the minister she cited her confidence once again in her unnamed professional experts Today I have offered another in the first of a litany of examples of failings occurring at our judicial tribunals Speaker, can the minister commit today to have her ministry investigate Slasthold and determine if this transcript is indeed missing or if the LAT is actively suppressing from the plaintiff Will she act on the multitude of public complaints and commit to conducting a thorough investigation and report back to this house on the state of our broken tribunals and these people who are being denied access to justice under her watch Thank you Mr. Speaker, I find it strange to have this question this concern this morning but sure we're going to look into it but I have been visiting law firm across Ontario recently and they always give me the model of our administrative tribunal and you know what, they want more than less so our administrative tribunal is working if there is concern like I said you know they can write directly to the chair of the tribunal and I'm sure that she will take action but I will come back to the member, not to the house but to the member about his complaint Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Thank you My question is to the premier Yesterday we learned that the Minister of Community and Social Services has spent an additional $21 million to fix her social assistant management system since last March The flaws of the new system created chaos for vulnerable people receiving social assistance the minister thought that the system was ready last November she was wrong now she says this time the system will work can the minister guarantee that this final version of SAMS will not create more chaos for people like the last final version did Thank you Mr. Community and Social Services Thank you very much Mr. Speaker and I'm certainly going to give an update on the situation with SAMS we have acknowledged that the implementation of SAMS would require additional costs for transition as PricewaterhouseCoopers has pointed out we're dealing with one of the most complex delivery systems in North America we have some 570,000 cases on social assistance we have 11,000 users of the system in some 250 locations a combination of provincial staff delivering ODSP and municipal staff delivering Ontario works and I would like to thank all of our partners in this endeavour for their dedication both those on the front lines union partners and the project team as well as PWC and so we have addressed the issues we are adopting all 19 recommendations that PWC made thank you Mr. Speaker after rushing a flawed system out the door social assistance checks went missing and vulnerable Ontarians suffered needlessly yesterday the minister released a statement that offered absolutely no apology for her chaos that she created in this system instead her priority was to distract from her government's negligence with the claims that the new system is simply cheaper than it was to implement the old system the minister does not understand that the new system is not cheaper for vulnerable Ontarians whose checks go missing why does the minister think that her job is to justify her own negligence instead of making sure that no more vulnerable Ontarians are hurt thank you Mr. Speaker and of course we recognise that SAMS is a system that serves the most vulnerable and that makes this investment so important for frontline workers more training and more testing is definitely something worth investing in and at this point perhaps I could outline some of the great benefits that we have with SAMS people will recall that the Auditor General noted that the previous system introduced in 2001 2002 by previous government was outdated did not allow for strict adherence to the rules related to social assistance so what have we now guided by our frontline working group we now have information that case workers want in a way that they want it we have customisable homepages case at a glance screens flexi-volage to respond to changing client needs and now the ability to automate tasks that had previously to be done manually we have a stable system we've delivered 7 million payments to more than 900,000 better thank you Mr. Speaker my question is to the minister of economic development employment and infrastructure as the minister knows our government has worked very hard at growing our economy and attracting jobs to our province we all know Ontario can only move forward economically by being at the cutting edge of innovation as the other sector is a large and important employer in our province and has historically and continues to employ many people in Durham what is the minister doing to encourage innovation in that sector thank you minister of economic development employment and infrastructure thank you Mr. Speaker today Ontario continues to enjoy a very strong presence in the North American auto sector it directly or indirectly in half a million Ontarians in Ontario and Michigan continue to be in the top two in terms of sub national governments producing automobiles but we continue to fight for future mandates and growth in a fiercely competitive global economy we've done well in today's auto sector but that sector is in a state of technological disruption and we need to make sure that Ontario continues to lead as disruption courses through our auto sector our choice is either to lead this disruption in Ontario or be swept up by it and Mr. Speaker we choose to lead last week our visionary minister of transportation demonstrated this by announcing that Ontario roads would be open to autonomous vehicle testing a very important decision Mr. Speaker for innovation in Ontario thank you I would like to thank the minister for his answer and his continuing work on this important file the auto industry is incredibly important to our community in Durham I know many of my constituents will be pleased to hear of our efforts to encourage innovation as the minister knows Ontario is first in attracting foreign direct investment in North America and the minister has worked hard to continue this legacy can the minister provide details of his announcement in Waterloo on what it will mean to the rest of us across our great province Mr. Speaker let me put it this way two weeks ago I returned from the Silicon Valley and I got to tell you every time I come back from there I'm inspired by the growing recognition of the strength of the Toronto Waterloo corridor which is very much becoming a globally significant innovation driver and I can tell you that Ontario's decision to open roads to autonomous vehicles was greeted with great enthusiasm by industry innovators like Tesla and Cisco in the valley and I was pleased to join our once again visionary minister of transportation and MPPs from Kitchener Centre in Cambridge in making this announcement in Waterloo last week Waterloo really is the west anchor of our Toronto Waterloo innovation corridor we're now Mr. Speaker the first province in Canada to open up our roads to the testing of autonomous vehicles this takes out our role Mr. Speaker as a global leader in auto innovation and in the innovation sector as a whole in North America thank you Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker my question is for the Premier two weeks ago I asked the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing twice about thousands of taxpayers dollars which were used to purchase a luxury 8 day vacation package in South Africa instead of going to social housing as it was intended he couldn't explain it or tell us whether there were any efforts made to get any of the money back perhaps that's because it actually happened under the Premier's watch when she was Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing can the Premier explain how someone was able to use social housing dollars and go on a luxury South African cruise under your watch Mr. Speaker I believe that the Minister of Rural Affairs is going to want to add to this in the supplementary Mr. Speaker what I can tell the member opposite under my watch when I was Minister of Municipal Affairs is that there were questions raised about this organization that had been set up by the previous government and we began to set in place guidelines Mr. Speaker because it was important that we tighten up the processes Mr. Speaker that had actually been very loose under the previous government so those guidelines were developed Mr. Speaker and I know that the Minister of Rural Affairs will want to add to the supplementary. Back to the Premier Premier we're talking about a luxury package vacation complete with winery tours and award-winning restaurants I've read the government's independent review and it failed to find any of these expenses or take any steps to get the money back on Tuesday the Co-op Housing Federation is here and these people are stretching every dollar they're coming to the legislature and these are people who are stretching every dollar for the provide housing for people in need. This abuses an insult to those people and 160,000 8,000 people who are waiting on the list for public housing and again Premier the Ontario taxpayer. Can the Premier tell us whether the government has taken any steps to recover the thousands of taxpayer dollars that were put into South African vacations under her watch? Well thanks very much Mr. Speaker and I appreciate the supplementary from my colleague from Oxford when the Government of Ontario learned of the situation our government took swift action. We employed an independent third party to commit to do comprehensive review our request to initiate an independent review. The review has been verified with HCS and we've taken the right steps towards approving accountability and transparency. Actions taken to date, we've refined its business activities, we've streamlined the organisation structure, we've reduced overhead administrative cost enhanced corporate reporting transparency, we advised board remuneration to expense policy so they're in line with the management board of cabinet directors we've committed to invite a third party to report on the implementation and the recommendations and provide any additional changes that our government meets to take in this issue Mr. Speaker. Thank you. New question, the member from Nickelbelt. Thank you Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Since 2009 Petscans are available to people in Northern Ontario, North Western Ontario and Southern Ontario but for patient living in North Eastern Ontario we still don't have access to Petscan technology really long distances. But Speaker, I have good news Mobile Petscanner are becoming more frequently used in Ontario and they could travel up north but we need the Minister's permission before a Mobile Petscanner can come to Northern Ontario. My question is simple, when will the Minister agree to let a Mobile Petscanner come to Health Sciences North and Sudbury to serve the people living in the South? Thank you Mr. Speaker and I want to begin by acknowledging the hard work of the member from Sudbury in fact on this specific issue because Mr. Speaker earlier this year invited me to Sudbury to actually sit down and have a meeting with healthcare professionals on a variety of issues but including specifically to look at this issue of the long standing request for Sudbury and advocates for the whether it would be prudent and appropriate to invest in a Petscanner for Sudbury itself and so I want to commend him for that hard work and it was a result of his hard work and also that meeting that I engaged the good advice and expertise of the province-wide Petscanner steering committee it's a steering committee that exists within Cancer Care Ontario but I would like to thank Mr. Speaker to provide that expert advice on where and when and how Petscanning facilities and provisions should be made available to Ontarians. Thank you, supplementary. Thank you tonight. Hundreds of people will join the San Bruno family and friends at the Cruzo Club to raise money for permanent Petscan for Sudbury and to bring a mobile Petscan to our region. The mobile Petscan will have budget expenses but it will bring fairness and equitable access to this technology to the people of the Northeast. The people of the Northeast are ready, Speaker. Health Sciences North is ready. Mobile Petscanners are standing by so minister after making us wait for six years could you please do the right thing grant the permission for a mobile Petscan to come to Sudbury. Mr. Speaker I think the parents would agree that we are doing the right thing. We're doing the responsible thing, Mr. Speaker. First of all, the wait time for getting a Petscan in this province anywhere in this province is two weeks, Mr. Speaker. So people including in Sudbury have access to that wait time of two weeks or sometimes Mr. Speaker even less. But I want to acknowledge for the residents of Sudbury that there is an additional challenge and it is a big challenge of them having members and in a situation where they're challenged by perhaps a physical illness themselves. And so there is that added dimension to this which we're taking very seriously but I would hope the member opposite who is a health care professional would agree with me that we need to take a responsible approach to this. We've given the question to the Petscanner committee. I understand that recently my ministry has received an answer reviewing the report and analyzing it. We'll make the decision that is in the best way possible. Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is to the minister of research and innovation. Minister investing globally competitive life sciences sector in Ontario is key part of our government's plan to create highly skilled jobs that are in demand of today's knowledge economy. Ontario's life sciences sector is currently the largest jurisdiction in Canada. With more than 50% of total Canadian life sciences economic activity. Some of the world leading research centers, hospitals clinics such as University of Toronto, Ontario Cancer Institute, SickKids, Mount Sinai are located right here in my writing of Tunis Padayana. Minister can you please inform the house on the economic benefits of investing in life sciences and how our government is frosting a world renowned life sciences sector right here in Ontario. Thank you Minister of Research and Innovation Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the member for that question. Mr. Speaker I am proud to report that with 160,000 researchers and scientists, 300 pharmaceutical firms and 1300 medical devices firm our province of Ontario has merged as a global leader in life sciences sector in the world actually. Since 2010 my ministry has made investments in life sciences research including 1,000 new jobs and more than $730 million leverage funds. In 2012 Ontario's life sciences sector has generated more than $38 billion in revenue and contributed about $8 billion in export goods Mr. Speaker, we will continue building Ontario up by investing in research and innovation and commercialization of research which will forward foundation to economic development in the future. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the minister for that answer. It's very reassuring to know that our government will be committed to investing in an innovative globally competitive life sciences sector in Ontario and quite honestly it's one of the largest job creators in my writing. Thanks to the hard work and dedication of researchers across the province Ontario has also become a global research and research in stem cell research and regenerative medicine. Ontario currently ranked the third in the world in terms of significant discovery in stem cell. My constituents in the writing of Tunis Padena have friends and family suffering from chronic disease like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and multiple cirrhosis. I understand that stem cell research and regenerative medicine is allowing scientists to better understand the causes of disease and develop technology need to treat them. Minister, can you please inform the member of this house on how this funding will develop a new treatment and a therapy for people with these? Thank you minister. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Again I want to thank the member for that question. Mr. Speaker as you know stem cell has been discovered in our province of Ontario by Kill and McCulloch. Stem cell research is laying pathway towards a better therapies and cure for chronic diseases. Just recently I visited the Ontario Institute for regenerative medicine where I announced $25 billion investment by our government in support of research in treatments and therapies for chronic diseases such as multiple cirrhosis, cancer and diabetics. This funding will support the institute in revolutionizing treatments and making Ontario a global leader in commercialization stem cell related products and services. With advancing stem cell therapy one day we could fix damage cells to the heart we will be able to restore vision and we will be able to activate immune system to fight cancer. We will continue investing in research and innovation which will be the foundation of our economic growth for tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is for the minister of community and social services. Maybe she'll answer me. In last year's estimates the minister stated Sam's would have a seamless rollout. No one would know there was a change taking place. Mr. Speaker the transition has been anything but seamless. Yesterday's report claims that there will be a 19 it will be 19 months past the original date before the government will close the books on this project. The government will also spend an additional $50 million on Sam's all because of what the minister originally noted as a small glitch. Can you say with absolute certainty that this is the final time you will announce delays and cost overruns for this air riddled system rollout? Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think that we should all be very clear that the decision to implement Sam's was not taken lightly. A new system was required because the old system introduced by the former government, SDMT as it was known, was unreliable and unable to keep up with the needs of the 21st century service delivery. In fact the Auditor General said that that technology was outdated, had serious integrity issues and did not have the ability to manage the rules that are part of Ontario's social assistance. Not only that the cost of introduction of that system in 2015 was $745 million when it was procured in 2001. In other words it cost some $451 million than the total for the introduction of Sam's. Thank you. It's never too late to get a warning. Supplementary. Thank you, Speaker. It's so interesting, Speaker, that whenever anything goes wrong with this government they blame somebody else for it. Under this minister, Speaker, the cost of Sam's implementation has skyrocketed to nearly $300 million. Individuals and families have received erroneous checks leaving some unable to afford rent or food. Municipalities and service providers have incurred millions of dollars of cost overruns. There's no question that Sam's implementation has been a failure. Speaker, in March the minister said, quote, that she was truly sorry for the problems with Sam's but yesterday's transition report shows no contrition. It's nothing but a pat on the back. What does she have to say today to the individuals whose services will have to be cut? Or to pay for her government's mismanagement? Good question. Thank you. I'm certainly happy to talk about some of the advantages of the new system because apparently this is being totally overlooked. We have a modern, reliable system. It is going to do exactly what we need to do. It is stabilized. It allows for social assistance rates increases which of course our government is actually increasing social assistance to be processed in some two or three days. The old SDMT system took months for clients, monthly benefits to reflect the change. Sam's will now allow clients to send and receive information through a new easy to use online portal. Sam's will also enable the province-wide implementation of the reloadable payment card program in the next year. Something that's been piloted by the city would have been completely impossible with the old system. So we will assist clients to access their benefit funds more conveniently. Thank you. Point of order. Today I'd like to introduce two visitors for my riding of Niagara Falls. Dave Evans is a firefighter who is here with us today but equally important is his son Ben who came all the way from Quebec to visit his dad and see Queen's Park. Welcome and I hope you have a great day. Thank you. We have a deferred vote on a motion as amended for allocation of time on bill 112 an act to amend the emergency the energy consumer protection act 2010 and the energy the Ontario energy board act 1998 calling the members this will be a five minute bill. Would all members please take their seats? Please take your seats. Sergeant in arms is after people. Thank you. On October the 21st Mr. Neil moved government notice of motion number 41 on October the 22nd the following amendment by Mr. Smith was declared carried that the paragraph starting that the deadline for filing amendments to the bill be struck out and replaced with that the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the clerk of the committee shall be 12 p.m. on Thursday November 5th 2015 and that the third bullet be struck out and replaced with that following the deadline the clerk of the committee provide the members of the subcommittee with a list of requests to appear and that the members of the subcommittee prioritize and return the list by 6 p.m. on Thursday October the 29th 2015 and that the clerk of the committee schedule witnesses from these prioritize lists all those in favor of Mr. Neil's motion as amended please rise one at a time be Mr. Neil Mr. Nacky Mr. Shirelli Mr. Sousa Mr. Win Mr. Oskis Mr. Dugas Mr. Col Mr. Brardinetti Mr. Dillany Mr. Gravelle Mr. Murray Mr. Chan Mr. Kuto Mr. Zimmer Mr. Kudry Mr. Balthusen Mr. Albanese Mr. Dixie Mr. Crack Mr. Hunter Mr. Sergio Mr. Jackson Mr. Del Duca Mr. Don Willow Mr. Wong Mr. Fraser Mr. Anderson Mr. McMahon Mr. Milchin Mr. Pots Mr. Renaldi Mr. Tebow All those opposed please rise one at a time be recognized by the clerk Mr. Arnaz Mr. Hardiman Mr. Brown Mr. Clark Mr. Fidelli Mr. Hillyer Mr. Thompson Mr. Barrett Mr. Walker Mr. Harris Mr. Pettipi Mr. Vantoff Mr. Singh Mr. Horvath Mr. Miller Mr. Miller Hamilton Mr. Taylor Mr. Natashack Ms. Armstrong Ms. Fyke Mr. Monta Mr. Hatfield Mr. Gates Mr. French Mr. Campbell The ayes are 54, the nays are 36 Mr. Glee all once again The ayes being 54, and the nays being 36 I declare the motion as amended to carry it There are no further There are no further deferred votes This House stands recess until 1pm this afternoon