c stops chip damage from ever being a thing against your army just by his existence Um, okay, all your summonable units just become immune to nonsense chip damage um, yeah, it's fascinating because You used to have to kill enemy models in order for this to trigger Right and now it just it's just a heal. It's an auto heal. Yeah, you can be miles away from the battle Yeah, tech just absolutely hates this kind of thing like what he's doing is tech native and then like bang bang Yes, he does really back through back Yep, uh, so I like this guy a lot and again his attack profile is fine because he has neg 2 2 damage And I has three attacks, but it's it's fine for what he is. I don't but that makes you run Two inch range catches people out I had a my beast of nergal player came in with sloppity and he was all excited and came in and hit my chain rast and pinned him and uh And the near beast died And this guy was like stuck and unable to pile and he's like, okay Well come back over and I'm like not actually With my neg 2 render attacks, you know like all three of them fully buffed up just stripped the save right off and went You know six damage straight to the wards like twos and twos baby And then yes chain guests who are obviously actually not a hero But show up just they they kind of like sneak into the pseudo hero section here basically Because they're like a utility non hero buff unit basically And you pair them like they only work when they when you have a torment on the table Which is a real big distinction yes So uh add one to hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly night hot units Holy within 12 of any friendly units with this ability While a friendly spirit torment is on the battlefield not near him. He's just got to be somewhere. He's got to exist That's more generous than it used to be right because they used to be they had to be near each other 12 of They you There was a price point where um You know previously where people were thinking about spamming these as like an actually semi reasonable shooting in it when it popped up Um level 75 probably a bit too pricey now but Yeah, really good utility and the bit of the bit of damage as well And you know as we said like chipping a couple of models Chipping a couple of wounds away with your model wounds apps and your candles and these 15 inch shots is Can be really handy Yeah, yeah, these guys are perfect to keep to be the the units that like get pulled for me like when I could Deploy in the underworld like these almost always were deployed in the underworld because There's no reason not to you because you're going to pop them up nine inches out Which is where they need to be right right in order to spread their buffs And then when you pop up nine inches out those 15 inch they still get their shooting Is your shooting attacks happen after your movement? And so like it's just like they get to do all their things they get to buff they get to shoot And they just get to hang out right I love and these are the secret to the hero bubble because these guys hang out like they'll zone like the back of your hero bubble or whatever Right, and so they still get That's funny because these guys got worse by the way Because they used to they used to do a number of attacks per model to like all enemy units within three inches Which was what I hear that but I like with two of them at adepticon I did like 27 attacks against zombies. It was great.  Um But uh, I mean what I'll say is this I like I love these guys I wouldn't go any I wouldn't go home without at least one set of these shakeouts Yeah, I mean the attacks got worse the melee theoretically, I guess right um, but the the the thing you were taking them for This buff got so much better Because of not needing to chain the characters around That's the right, right, right Well in right north condemned they were pushing out a 15 inch re-roll hits bubble Without having to chain So I like it like that's like with right now. I'm not counting that because that was never going to Literally the second that got published five minutes later. We were like this is not going to stay so like it was never real I'm glad you got to manipulate it and utilize it, but you know Okay, it's great. It's a great weekend. Um They're great. Uh, yeah, good stuff and like four wounds on a four up six up is actually a lot harder to remove than you think The last thing I want to say on these guys before we leave them is I want everybody to remember the gassed flails profile Yeah, and and the number of a shooting attacks and the various the like the profile and number of these shooting attacks Vis-a-vis the points because it's two of these dudes. So I'm getting four attacks on fours and threes neg two one damage for 95 points Which is like I would have a 15 inch range 15 inch range. I just want us to lock that that profile in our heads For later for later. I won't spoil it, but let's just let's just all keep that up here for later. Okay Yeah, all right, great No reason Uh, the tomb banshee most improved flare award right here Uh, I love the tomb banshee. I love that they actually tried to make this ancient hero that you can buy for like eight dollars I mean, this thing is so cheap. If you could find it still in its little clamp back, right? Uh, so she has a little range attack that is whatever it is. It's fine Her reason the reason you take her I love by the way. She only has two attacks By the way, tom. She's like below the three attacks thing because she's I don't count her She doesn't exist in my mind. Oh, I love this little hero. Okay. So what I what I enjoy about her. She's is I'm I'm I'll I'll take lead on her because I have something I really enjoy about her and something I don't enjoy about her What I enjoy about her is I think she has again. We're stealing other people's ability. This is kind of how total eclipse Uh, should have been but it's against one unit Correct at the end of your charge phase You can pick one enemy unit within 12 inches of this unit and roll a die. Now. She didn't have to charge. It's just that's the trigger time Right. She just needs to be around Yeah at the end of the charge phase Your charge phase your charge phase. Yes. Um, but Well, this lasts longer than just the resulting phase But yes, add one to the roll if the target is terrified Cool. So if somebody else charged them within three inches, then you're doing this on a three up So on a four up or three up if they're terrified Your opponent has to add one to the number of command points that are spent to issue a command to that enemy unit until your next hero phase So that that thing actually sticks around potentially quite a while On that if you get double it would be nice. Yeah, right Now my issue with her is I really like that ability like I really do I love the idea of bleeding out there their unit. They want a buff Okay, and making it very hard because like everything gets harder on that unit Right. They want to redeploy that unit. I hope you're willing to spend two command points to do it Yeah Because again that like that unit didn't necessarily have to be in combat Yeah What I don't like about it is What's that Nico go ahead? I'm sorry imagine it's man friend or something He's got like that hero phase command ability that he really wants to use and right Everything gets more expensive for a long time but My issue with her is 115 points is just slightly too expensive For what she does that's the you'll never using this ability if it was on a two up with the plus one Yeah, sure if it started at three and went to two or something like that Another yeah another little gripe is like the wording should be like You know when a unit receives a command receives a command because I've said issue two instead of receives Right, and then it's when you use it you spend one more but you know, that's not everyone understands what it's getting at But it's just unfortunate if it was like all enemy units within 12 inches Or I mean that's so strong. You'd have to like jack her points way up or something like that But it would be more reliable and usable like She has to be in she has to be in the pocket at the 12 inch mark To utilize this so in threatening range, right? I understand And that unit has to be the strategic unit that they're going to want to issue commands to which may or may not be the case I mean, I that's why I moved because I knew that was the one they're gonna want to issue to It's generally pretty obvious who they want to issue to the units you're fighting That's not And it fails 50 percent of the time it fails 33 percent of the time often But yes, like because you can often have them terrified at this point Yeah, I just I'm not spending 115 for that I'm just not doing it It's definitely a bill where you take like turd os and you take a linda and you take Maybe a couple of tune banshees and you really lean into this commandability frustration Right side of things, but yeah, it's worth trying to think To me, I would love her at 95 points maybe even 100 That's where I would really be in love with her It does stack interesting as if you had two tune banshees It does. Yes, because it's just add one Yeah, so multiples of them screaming at a unit can make it just prohibitively expensive to actually use command points on a unit at all That is true That is a little more interesting. I wouldn't buy her for 75 points Wow, no, I take that back. I would buy her for 75 if I have 75 left in my list and because there are no other Your spike is showing right now Because it's a real role is too hard for you No, she's just not reliable like that's what that's what I just said.  That's fine. She a leader Definitely Just thinking about that is a great question that I don't know is she actually taking up a leader slot Is sadly Can rate is a leader She probably is that would have been a great trick if they had left like the uh Yeah, she is a leader guys. Yes. She is she is if she was not I would consider her at 100 we'd go back home like any any cheap unit has that extra utility There's only being an extra charge roll an extra real charge the next turn But I would rather have four banshees on the table than her and four banshees are more near born and they're 105 I understand I I like her. I I I stan her I like to see these super old heroes get used. Let's talk about the last hero Carnraith. Yes, this guy who a good old boy Who who still has the I get a number of attacks equal to the number of models within three inches Is this the hero we need for the upcoming horde meta tom in my first build My very first list he made it As my general And do you know why I'm ready So that you lose less when he dies There is a command trait That gives you reroll all hits and wounds If the unit you are attacking on your general if the unit you are attacking is not a death unit Yeah, there it is and so This dude this guy Running in on any like multi model unit, right like With his reach would go in Would be like could be on twos and twos reroll all hits reroll all wounds and get like 20 attack I think yeah, it's potential, but there's not enough in the meta the problem is there's not enough like multiple unit Uh multi like multi model Stuff to utilize him Thankfully is quite an innocuous model compared to everything else So the possibility of your opponent forgets this is the case and puts 30 witch elves, you know Base to base next to each other to maximize their attacks and then oh whoops But like if they are paying attention then Imagine what this would do block of witch elves with that command trait Like he could almost single-handedly lift that unit If you were ambitious, you could give him arcane tome with with uh Flame blade exactly flaming and I can't believe you're standing the car and wraith when you are so negative on the two banshee It's ridiculous like the iris I feel 32 male base. I believe I know I would feel the car and wraith in a heartbeat over the banshee Wow, but then you then you play sons or angels with pigs It's just like sure and and and that happens sometimes too. Yeah I mean what the point is both are super niche niche heroes. Sure. That's my point I and you're gonna want to take a moment to say I'm I'm super glad they tried to give Both of these old old old heroes that has still just been hanging around forever Like some use like people could use these and not feel like a moron is what I is what I like We can argue about their overall efficacy But I actually love that these old sculpts that they're you know, these are cheap They're cheap heroes. They're cheap models and people that have probably have them in their Collections and it's just cool that they like hey, they can do something. That's great. I was looking for a reason to paint him That's great. Okay Also 115. I think we said that Yeah All right, let's get into battle line boys. Here we go. Get into them units. Okay Uh, okay Uh so Grimgast Reapers formerly the only unit from this army that people often liked In a certain time period of the past Yeah, uh, and now here they are Basically eight inch move like everything in this army now four up save Two attacks each of two inch range fours threes neg 1 1 damage and they get one more attack Of their little sights if there are five or more models in the target unit So they go up to three attacks each so on and so forth All right 160 points for 10 and they are battle line I should have made that note as well, but they are battle line. Um Tom how you rating how you're rating ggr's Uh, I did not rate them real high initially. Okay, um and nico actually turned me around. Um through some conversations on them So I um and actually I'm painting up 20 right now I think that they are the wonderful like they are a wonderful switch unit And what I mean by that is I think that they function both well both as an anvil and a hammer Okay, um, and they're the only they're one of the only units that I would rate as both of those things That they can serve based on whatever buffs they're carrying Because one of the differences is like unlike chain rats. They're actually sitting on a four up save instead of a five Sure They're actually at a 10 bravery instead of an eight. Yep Um, so they actually in large numbers do make a great anvil Right, but because they're two inch reach you're actually going to get them in range to do damage Unlike all the other 32 mil units that we're going to talk about. Yep Um, and when they receive the buffs like if they're in my buff window, right? The plus one to hit plus one to wound passive they're on threes and twos That's pretty good Like they're going to confirm a whole lot of hits So, you know, you're regularly going to throw out 40 attacks sometimes, you know, you're going to fight in two ranks basically And so if you run 20, you'll basically have a line of 10 Honey combed out and get all 20 in 40 attacks I don't expect to utilize the five models plus one to attack Like you're not regularly going to use that in this meta that may change Yeah, I'd say it stops on these guys because if we if we do if if the incentives actually switch and we see more horde type action Or larger units than these guys these guys the values are just so he goes up. Yeah Now nico, you're pretty hot on these boys I am I mean for all the all the reasons tom tom's sadly the two inch reach is an absolute game changer I've been seeing that with thralls recently. It's just incredible Uh, they do receive like the minus one to be wounded and the the fiber ward spells really well They run in a they run nicely in a 20 probably wouldn't go for the 30s. It's so many points in one place Yeah, um, but obviously we treat in charge. They are, you know, very able to reach a reposition Um, yeah, I like them a lot, you know clubmate ben murphy is really keen on them at the south london legion as well um Yeah, they're a big winner for me to be honest that they're really if you want a big Hammer in this army. You're pretty much between them or the incarnate of guh um Because to get one thing that used to call out attack and everything else on to actually You know kill something and want to go as opposed to with the msu style Right, so things at the same time. These are the things to go for and obviously one damage means they're Not being affected by um, you know coalesced or uh, other knight or armies with appreciators. So Nice, really. Well, they can be terrified. So you Well, appreciators will never work against other knight haunt true true All right, so oh, just want to answer this real quick. Hey re blue Thank you. Do I have a preferred worm or 40k or aos army that you love painting? Uh, yeah, sure. I mean skaven and slanesh would be the easy answer there But I mean I have 20 painted armies. So clearly I like a lot of armies 21 now technically I guess if you count the 40k armies, you really love slanesh And if you don't believe them all of his armies look like slanesh at a distance because he uses the same colors So That's slanesh is the answer. That's not true That is not true. If you walk into my room 60 60 pink and purple that might 66 percent of your armies. Oh, Nico might be more accurate. Okay uh chain rasps So our our our weedy battle line Uh, Nico, let's flip the script here 110 for 10 by the way, and they're you know Two tax force for is no red one damage and they get plus one to wound if they charge What you take on chain rasps on the raspy rasps and obviously these guys are about a line as well I think in in three of the sub factions you're just taking these guys as 10 man chaff screens in the Grieving lesion with a no retreat. I think you're taking A 30 a 20 of chain rasps and then 20 grim gas because you're wanting those as tagging units where you're gonna charge into a chaff screen and then have one model 2.9 Is away from sign behind the chaff screen or to the side of the chaff screen And then they are stuck with no retreat. You can potentially layer on defensive buffs as as needed on The chain rasps and they will just sort of grind away They don't synergize as tom mentioned with the guardian of souls. He's probably one of these I'm a little bit cooler cooler on him The plus one of wound But because they're on 25 mils, they will do some some work over time And with you know with multi-charging you could potentially get them to quasi rend 2 which suddenly just drastically improves what they'll what they'll do um But yeah outside of grieving lesion you're looking at like here is a cheap 10 man line of chaff Still like him in 20s like I still have a 20 block even in my emerald List because they are it is a great tar pit and it'll be objective Um, like if you can revive reliably put these on fives and fives, which you can um Then like they it's 20 wounds on fives and fives man. That's that that's plague bearers, right? That's better than plague bearers now because plague bearers are sixes and fives rendible um And on 20 wounds and so I like I love I still love a 20 packet chain raps as it is I I my entire Offense was built on like these guys on threes and threes re-roll right There's reason for these re-roll hits threes re-roll ones to win. Uh, and just Then being on threes and threes auto confirming on sixes now Right. Yeah. Um, I like I I like, you know 20 of these guys is 40 attacks Yeah, that's pretty good Good for them on the four up to we're normally because it's like effectively two hits for every six And the other thing is they have a battle tactic for chomping on a on a hero or a monster Which could be the five green guy.  I am still running chain raps And so they are super efficient and not just as like a tenor but as a 20 Because they are like if you don't remove them They are a real problem because they will rally back up. You will spirit ornament Like they will be an issue. And so I just I'm still really high on chain raps even though 110 like That's a lot of points for for a For a lower tier battle line, but whatever Yeah, I what I think is interesting and and I'll kind of save my thoughts here as we go forward But I actually what I love is how you can mix the different battle line in this army Like this army has a lot of really different interesting battle line And I actually think the way like the lists I've looked at have all mixed the different battle lines To different purposes like I want to use a lot of them two different ends And I think that's actually a really really really good thing Like gosh, I wish all armies were built like this where you look at all the different battle line units and you go Yep, I can see a roll for that. I want it to do this I want to use one of those battle line one of those battle line one of those battle line Where you're not immediately just trying to like get this crap out of the way so I can get to the good units Right now these These guys have a function and grim gas battle line good function these guys function. They fit a roll. They're doing it They're doing it pretty well Okay Blade geist revenants revenant So these are our boys who go battle line in the blade guys revenant crimson doom Uh and you know they're the key with these guys is they are on 32s And that's a challenge with the one entry with the one entry each Um, they have two attacks three three snag one one So a slightly better base profile Then grim guests right because the three to hit versus the four to hit And they get plus one attacks character to their attacks characteristic if they charged So they have a more reliable higher attack number And uh, yeah, sure because of the retreat in charge. That's that's usually true Um, I mean it depends again. Who knows what the meta looks like like if the meta suddenly flooded, you know post Skaven post sylvaneth post ghb if the meta is flooded with big horde units Then it might be more consistent that you're getting that that bonus attack off turn even Then you're just on your turn retreating and charging But whatever I don't want to get into they both have a plus one attack mechanic Meta determinant as to which one is is actually valuable or more valuable or whatever Right, but the big challenge with these guys is obviously the Uh, the one inch reach on a 32 mil model, which means either you have to fight in the very specific like magnet tray Honeycomb honeycomb To get all of your attacks or you just got to accept it like some dudes aren't fighting Right. Yeah Yeah, and I like I For my last few events. I've run heritons, which are I've been running 10 models. They're on run them in tens 32 mil bases one inch reach And the reality is is that like they're just sometimes where I couldn't get a whole unit in Yeah, and it's a very real possibility They're cheaper and they synergize better with uh, the the touch exploding plus six is auto read Yeah, yeah at the end of the day Go ahead, Nico. I was just saying like I only see play guys revisions being run in tens and Probably only in in the scarlet, but when they are in scarlet, I think they're an excellent option because they're just doing Very solid like three three to four model wings for every 10 10 of the charges that the ability to focus fire that and then have the potential for for extra Debuffs to save with the small number of models actually are are hitting is is potentially quite savage. So Yeah, I'm interested in them, but strictly in that sort of faction Agreed that is the place to use them Yes, because then you can like take a bunch of the MSU units multi-charge and hopefully just blow through something And where it's like well my coherence doesn't matter because you're basically dead on the charge already I only need a few guys to fight you to clean up whatever's left. Yeah Yeah Okay, craven throne guard battle line if kurdos is your general. No, you got this wrong. Oh, yeah in the army Yeah, he just has to be in the army. Oh, is that kurdos shows up kurdos shows up and these guys are like, oh, thank you. You're right. Yeah, he's like i'm ready But I still would never include a unit. That is the most nice at tumble have a be about this unit Yeah, that's exactly right. Thank you. Why didn't when I sent this out for review Why didn't you tell me that with that? I had this error here because then but I wanted to tell you in front of 250 people live That's why well, that's good. Yes. That's fine. I was just reading. I appreciate you All the hard work that I do for this show being being uh, we're you know, that's great Uh, the real that's my flip it reason. The real reason is is I didn't read it. Got it. That also makes sense Yeah, okay, so this is the disappointing cross moves, right? I mean, can we say this any other way? They're fairly disappointing They're like 230 for for 10 effectively. So like whereas like reavers are 170 Even like slanesh ones are better value than this I mean silent silent weekly and And I the south of the legion have really tried to make these work I think they do have this rally thing So on five ups they rally and that is a lot better on a shooting unit because you're less likely to be unable to Rally from being in combat and in theory you could deep strike them You can you know have a unit of 15 and it's actually quite hard to get rid of a 15 As we just kind of discussed with chain rest Um, however, that's still so many points. Um, and the output is just weak You know, one good thing about the output is that spiritual touch does work on it So the six is to hit will auto wound. It's just not enough And but none of your other buffs work Yeah, none of your pluses to hit and wound. Yeah, none of the plus to hit. None of the bubbles work No, they're only rerolls. So they're just Yeah, it's a real stretch of that price point But you know, that means Potentially they can go down but they really need to feel like a 15 inch range They need Something better than just ignore a line of sight because that doesn't help very much at 12 So I read there they're like obviously these guys came out in the box, right? And you read the ability this unit can target enemy units with shooting attacks Even if the target is not visible to the attacking model like, okay, cool with my 12 inch range I don't know what building is in the way that I'm actually shooting through But that's fine In addition enemy units targeted by shooting attacks made by this unit do not receive the benefit of cover for those shooting attacks All right. Yeah, Nico, did you ever when did you start playing warhammer? Nico? Uh, when I was 15 probably Okay, so what year was it like I'm not trying to get your age What edition did you start in 99? Okay, so you were at the tail end of fifth edition, right? Yes So in fifth edition else Yeah, there was a unit In the dogs of war called lumpencrups fighting cocks. Okay. They were little halfling archers Yep, and I love those little guys. It was a little halfling archers and lumpencrups Had a they were they were a similar issue unit, you know little little bow dudes And they had an ability that made them immune to way watcher traps Okay at the time Wood elves could pick woods terrain like add woods terrain on the board if they had a unit of way watchers in their army And trap those woods and if somebody else walked into it, then they took some some hits of a certain strength But but don't worry lumpencrups could go in those woods and be immune to the way watcher traps And the constant joke amongst our group was how many points am I paying for that?  I I will take it Okay And all I can think of when I read these guys and see that I you get to ignore cover is like How many points am I paying for that? I just I would just just make them cheaper Yeah, I mean I now let's refer back to the previous joke about chain guests right 95 points 20 points cheaper So out of these five guys I get 10 attacks on fours and fours neg one one damage Whereas out of the literal four chain guests who are actually doing other things by the way or two chain gas, right? Who are other things by the way who are buffing a unit in a good way? I'm also getting four attacks at fours threes neg two Uh one damage I think on average they do more damage than these guys do Like on the numbers I haven't count that out with a six to auto wound, but it's competitive. I'll say that much. Yes. Yeah Oh, yeah, I haven't count out with a six to auto wound. Yeah, right so My my point is is that like these guys are such a miss and it makes me sad because they're a cool idea Yeah, I have a bunch that aren't built and aren't going to be built Yeah Like just that range is too short. The attack is too weak You know, I don't or or the points are too high something Right, like there's something not right here. One of these things needs to move Yes, this is what we call a bad scroll. Yes That's that's all from the rally thing the rally thing has potential particularly if they were like 10 20 Okay, so let's say that they rallied on four new points with new points. Yeah, I mean that's Like yes, if you change all of those other things Right, yeah, they have add good ability in the rally thing. Unfortunately, it's attached to an otherwise bad war scroll. Yes, exactly. Yeah All right, they compete with glaive wraith stalkers for the worst glaive wraith stalkers, uh, so Obviously the reason that you might like glaive wraith stalkers is that they do have a two damage base Which is you know pretty rare outside of the heroes in this army Um, but they are a hundred Kind of finish the stats. There are 105 points for four models Okay, and the cool thing about them. Look, I do want to say the cool thing about them because I don't totally hate those guys That's I do but continue. I understand. I don't think they're good, but they do have a need ability all right The cool thing about them is that you basically pick a unit at the start of the game The start of your first hero phase as it were And if this unit's on the battlefield, you can pick one enemy unit to be its prey After this unit makes a move if this unit finishes that move closer to its prey Which is very easy because you just pick whatever's in the back corner of their army effectively most times, right? You don't need to even really move toward that thing. Like if you're moving like this, you're still closer right Then you get plus three to charge and it's cool because they also have a built-in plus one to charge So they have plus four to charge which is cool If Moved that the wave of terror number then I would agree. Yeah, which it does not it's unmodified obviously Yes, it does. No, so now it's just it just doesn't do anything like Can can we skip spirit host and we'll come back to them because I really like them But I want to I want to review this scroll immediately next to the banshees It's really important that we see that same price Yeah, that's same price. I try to find a combo with like with orac, but unfortunately doesn't work You want to move and then teleport you could maybe like and they don't get to do an objective But it doesn't work timing wise a start of movement phase So let's skip over spirit host and we'll come right back to them and and consider mirror more banshees Okay, that's because mirror more banshees have the same profile one wound for four models for 105 eight move 10 bravery for upset, right? Their profile alone Is Two attacks same fours and threes neg two rend two damage each Yeah, so they get double the attacks Better rend Same stuff same points same models And instead of giving them The ability to close the gap They into the mirror more and banshees get probably one of the most powerful spell abilities in the game right now. Yep Yep, okay, and what this bubble is is Um, and by the way, this wording has changed somewhat From when it got released in the box till it made this book, which is a fascinating change It's more powerful now than it was in the box So now it's you roll 2d6 each time an enemy wizard successfully casts the spell and is not about and chooses for the effect of the spell To apply to a unit wholly within 12 of this unit. Yep Or when an endless spell finishes a move within six inches this unit If this unit has three or more models you're gonna add one to this roll If your role is greater than the casting value of that spell or endless spell not the dice rolled No, the casting but whatever the number is on the scroll Yep, then the spell is unbound before it has any effect or the endless spell is dispelled Um, and so what's interesting is that this spell um Like this gives you a second unbind against spells at the easier value and all it has to do is it It has to affect one of your units wholly within 12 It's Yeah, they try to like you got banshee's floating around a lumeneth unit and they try to power of haish themselves You can shut that right down. Yeah, you will eat their power by age.   Is that choosing to apply to it's just kind of This came up in our game because I ran four banshees And the to ruled in my favor Okay, um, and so like I got to like I rolled there's only two units unfortunately That was in the bubble at the time But I got to roll up two bites and if either bite would have hit Uh succeeded the whole spell would have been shut down Yeah, because I I'd be inclined to think that it's either going to get a rata to be like picks a picks a unit within 12 Well, it used to be pick and they changed it to this They changed it to this from the pick of you Okay, um Yeah, and so it's a real like And the question is it's like let's say that A spell like his multi target, right that hits a bunch of different units Are you rolling 12 times or however many units are in this? Like techno just would never work. Basically. Yeah. Yeah, the techless spell would just literally shut down every time he tries to cast Oh, you are struggling against a 10 So I missed the energy units as well, which is really nice. It's like mystic shield Yeah, so I I rate these guys really high But I struggled to fit them in less Regularly. See this is everything. I I've totally come around on these banshees, Tom You know, I always hated this unit. I was hot on it and they never did not for you, but you kept liking but now But now I like that model. No, it's honestly. There are other offensive profile is perfectly good. Like it's it's good I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's good But I don't but that's not why I'm putting them in the army That spell eater ability is so good the utility on that's so wildly good The fact and it's what what The penny dropped for me Literally when I realized it could be on buff spells as well because all good spells right now in the meta are buff Like a merc knob is crying about how much better this is than Yeah, and like but I know you I know you're kind of like flippantly dismissing the offensive power of these guys But I'm not saying it's not the reason they win me over I had four of them in my list this weekend. Well, they were still 70 five points then They're 105 now But I had I had one unit of four in there and in two different games in one game. They lifted a lord of afflictions Because it's it's eight attacks on with in the buffs in the bus circle. There's threes in toots sure Yeah, um And neg two rend two damage pop and then I in another out they lifted the nemardi king Yeah, I have those like final sort of 200 210 points And it's either like do I take kudos? Do I take two units of these? Do I take, you know these? I think an eight pack of these in I think an eight in um, I think an eight of these in Uh hunters is really interesting Because it because it becomes it's your secondary wave It's your secondary like reactive hammer It sits in the back line buffs to everybody because eight is a huge like a huge spread Right. Holy within 12 of eight of these guys You see that sits behind the line And they come in and then it counter charges And just like, you know, again eight of these is 16 attacks right Um, that's a lot Yeah, it's definitely a good unit Yeah, no, I mean the Look the same weakness and achilles heel that's always been there for this unit is still there for this unit Sure, sure, which is these are four wounds for 105 points Yep. Yep, right, which is why I like a double reinforced unit at at eight wounds Because it gives your your refill abilities the the opportunity to actually catch the unit before it explodes, right? Uh, so Yeah, I mean you're you're absolutely do the comparison between the two and you're right This is the challenge what I was going to go for was I love great glaive wraith's little chargey ability But when you compare this is the story I was going to tell the little utility of this Compared to the utility of this Yeah, like forget even the attacks exist, right? Right. I mean obviously the attacks are better But just forget those even exist you look at the utility of the two things you're getting four wounds for 105 points Let's assume I'm getting it just for the utility. It's not even close Right, right, right. That's the trick Yeah, okay. Let's talk about everybody's favorite new battle line. Uh, a lot of people are going to get real frustrated Assembling this kit. Uh, I can't wait to see All the people like I picked up some yeah some spheroes. How do you assemble these? Uh, because these guys are real good now These guys have been at battle line choice like one of my units I've had a unit of these in basically every list I've written I love them. I just love them Um spirit host three wounds each their elite cool beans neat. I don't know that that matters at all in this case But sure why not? Uh, they make a bunch of attacks. I don't really care about I'm buying them completely for for drawn to war Uh, which is they as I said, they are about a line, by the way And there are 125 points for three before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly night haunt hero Uh, or instead of making a word roll for a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to that hero If any friendly units with this ability are within three inches of that hero You can roll a die on a three plus that wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly unit This ability instead of that hero and cannot be negated Thank you for putting all the correct wording in here, by the way Making it so they don't get their word roll against it I have no idea why the fire slayers heroes are the one thing that cheats.  Um, this should this is the correct way to write this ability Good Okay So effectively you just have if you use this bodyguard, you have no words say the tool effectively which means Straight onto the spheroes to the extent you roll the three Which is a good way to do it because it's a genuine sort of trade off Yep, yeah, and again, they're summonable You can refill because they're at that magic number of three wounds It actually makes it advantageous because you can do things like Many of the things that can drop stuff back in has a can drop either a whole model back or still hit the three that they need To drop them back or whatever I love these guys. I love that they can bodyguard for any of your heroes This was I think tom one of the major requests of basically every night hot player was give us some option To make our heroes more survivable and certainly giving them the equivalent of like nine ish extra wounds on a three up to transfer over Is a way to do that. It's huge. It's so huge Um, and my favorite point is that they're not like dedicated like it's not a dedicated red right, right, right? So like what happens is this is this unit? Sits in the middle of my five heroes Right that all travel together is one big pack Well, we should point out if you've got two units then you can start Yeah Yeah, you'll all treat them both on one wing each because you allocate one wing at a time Yep So again, just going down the battle line road Right of of like having different battle line units of different purposes most of my lists were like a unit of of Grimgast's a unit of chain rasps a unit of these guys And i'm pretty happy with my battle line in the three different roles that i'm doing here Like all my battle line are doing something I want them to do you miss the hex race for mobility That was the other one that you just we're gonna get there. Yeah, we're gonna get there. Don't worry.  They're gonna show up in almost every list. Um Because like what do you love more than olander olander guard? You know with a three upwards a from spirit host if you want sure Uh, I agree with your assistant ref who said they're actually surprisingly decent too with the auto wounds on six And the ability to get effective rent from the charges. They actually can do a little bit of work Especially against like other enemy sort of chaff type stuff. They will swarm and kill Okay, um dreadscythe heritans Who are battle line in the? Quicksilver dead. There we go. I had to think of the their proper name Uh, did they call them the quick silver dead as a reference to the quick and the dead? Is that what that is? I don't know. I don't either. I think they're trying to explain why the dreadscythe heritans have weapons for hands And so they're made out of metal. Does that make sense because the dreads like the quick silver They're all yeah, sure. They they have little yeah, because they have uh t2 Robert patrick terminator liquid metal terminator hands. Yeah, I think I think that that's I think that's where it came from It was so funny. I had these there this weekend like out of unit 10 and everybody's like, what is that unit? These no like most people who've even who've seen night haunt have never seen dreadscythe on the table ever Um, in fact, this was the last unit review Do you remember this was the last unit revealed for night haunt during the launch of aos 2 like this was the last unit we saw So most people didn't even really notice it in the initial launch either. Yeah. Yeah, and they were not good Um, it's interesting. I I have real mixed feelings about these I I was really high on them initially and I have cooled on them pretty significant. Okay Um, nico, do you want to talk about them? Yeah, sure I mean I had a similar trajectory as and I went out and immediately bought 50 of them when I saw the no What's thing in in that sub faction? I I do think You're probably taking no more than a minute minimum unit 10 in any other sub faction Maybe just for sort of utility and they got another one of these minus one to wearing buffs and one of the reasons I like them was that that debuff Effects the enemy units and therefore Benefits the incarnate of good who was most of my list. So that was nice Um, they are efficient in terms of the exploding sixes Uh, they have a nice sort of self. Well, they don't have exploding sixes anymore. You're saying they're auto confirming sixes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry because effectively they're getting you're getting the math of an exploding six out of it when they're four Sure, sure I like unlike the the blade guys for evidence They're just not efficient attacking in it in fsu because they're not the blade guys doing those nice three more rings for every 10 Whereas these guys are just relying on their attacks of like the champion and like a couple of guys You can squeeze into the space you have available while the others are trying to do the same next to them Relying on hitting those, uh, you know eights and tens and whatever for the wave of terror debuffs um, so They are a less efficient way to do damage than the Than that and a less efficient way to do damage than Hex race that will come on to So other than the fact that they that the meta currently is very high on what says is Knight horn and docker boat is going to add to that They are not great So give it time and if the meta changes, you know back to like almost, you know, based on armor say or based on volume of models They will sort of fall away Yeah, yeah, I mean what I'll say is this their murderous bud less will trigger All will almost always be on, you know, like you have enough ways to do like mortals on charge and stuff like that in this army Yes, yeah, or do like or Right nor burning a candle or whatever right like there are tons of ways to trigger So you really need to look at this and just consider them. They're on threes and threes. Yep Yeah, okay. It's 40 attacks out of 10 models on threes and threes Which is good weight of dice is a good thing. Yeah, right But They could be chain wraps or grim raps grim raps right right Yeah, all right Chain wraps also get 40 attacks on threes and threes. Yeah, yeah, sure I think that I think I'm in the same place as all of you on these like I I where I don't know what to think about them fully because they seem so dependent on what you're fighting and You know being in quicksilver and what's the armor profile of your enemy look like and Did you charge and get the neg ones to save or multiple neg ones to save and like there's just so many variables that could make them Explosively good or just total garbage Basically, no, I agree. I agree with that completely and that's the challenge that I ran into in list building Is that I started heavy in quicksilver And then I began to like adjust and then I migrated to emerald and by migrating to emerald They lost value there and originally I still had them as my counter attacking unit like my counter punch Because they still serve that function really well But then I began I was like but would I rather have like spend the extra 50 points and have eight banshees? Well, yeah, any day that we get rather have you know, even though it's only 18 or it's only 16 attacks or 17 or 16 attacks rather than 40 Like the the value of those banshee attacks are like Way higher plus the utility unit and so I just like I just struggled with this unit and to the point where Like I Vince I had asked you to get some feedback on a list And I ended up just trading this unit for my uh, hex rates Got it. I mean, yeah, we're gonna come to it in a second. Hexies are coming up soon. Um, yeah I mean, let me say this I would just love one time to charge a unit of plague bears with a good unit of Herodans and uh, and watch what happens there because boy would you want to do hi bears? I want to do Uh fires. I want to do hearth garbors.  Yeah, just just killing them out would be great Okay The black coach I want to keep moving because we got we're we're deep into this now. I want to I want to make sure um Is anybody going to defend the new black coach? At 335 points is what he is now Too much Okay, so here's the one like It's got to kill let's let's talk about the scroll a little just real quick It has it doesn't just power up on its own like you don't just roll dice at it anymore It has to kill things to power up If it does power up to five It gains a four upward instead of a five upward because it doesn't it only powers up when enemy models die Yes, correct Each time an enemy model is slain or fleas within 12 inches of this unit. It powers up. Yes It doesn't have to directly kill them other things could they could be incidentally killed by other things, but yeah, certainly, certainly Okay, if it so if it gets to five if it gets this little power counter to five It goes from a five upward to a four upward And if the value is six you can choose to go bam and shoot with it Um, and on a two up you do 3d3 mortal wounds Okay It does as I said it does have this built-in uh five upward And it does, you know some impact hit mortal wounds right and You instead of picking this unit to make a normal mover a tree You can say we'll travel the underworlds to a new location if you use our move from the battlefield And set it up again more than nine inches away. It has its own built-in teleport Okay all right now Is this thing How do I want to say this Is it just that it's too expensive or is there value here like could this have a price point where you'd be a buyer Need 200 points That's way lower than 200 is necessary But go ahead and go what we say I would say like 290 maybe I think the problem is like it's pretty much the same price as a linda So i'm going to take a linda over this or i'm going to add on another seven to can actually get the monster keyword While we're staying in this current meta and then I've got monsters take over and right It's from that, you know, and it's not a hero either. So you know, you can't turn it in You can't turn it into a monster. You can't Uh, you know give it artifacts, etc. Etc The impact hits are pathetic considering the size of the model like that's just grim like pick one unit Not even every unit with the right I mean x-rays do the same x-rays do the same damage on impact Yeah, um And the the the laser gun is Is is good But it's just too expensive for me. I'm afraid it's let me ask you to improve war scroll, but the points went up by more Let me ask this. What is this unit doing in this army? I mean, are you asking what they intended it to do or what it's actually doing? What is actually doing on this war scroll? They intended it to be a distraction card effects. Go ahead, dingo I would say it's like a weird grab bag because it's kind of a tank with like effectively 18 wounds And it's got the laser cannon that powers up But it's not 18 It has it has to be at a five up power Oh, so there will be some matchups where this thing never powers up No, 18 wounds is on the five up. It's always got a five. Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's the map 18 wounds is That's the correct math for a five up word Yeah, because you would negate a third of the wounds dealt to you and then take 12 Wards where it would have 24 effective wounds if it was at a four up all the time. Okay. Sure. You double the four ups Yeah A weird mobile anvil with this laser cannon bolted on and some really bad impact hits It doesn't have any synergy for any other units near it. Oh, and it can teleport but it's It's a grab bag to me So when I used to run my coach before it did two things two very unique things in this army The first is it restored a d3 models nearby? Sure. Yes Okay, and it was a models. So I was actually putting like hex race whole hex race So that was the first thing that it did the second thing was it had extreme mobility Because what it did was it was a base 14 inch move My pendant the pendant of fell wind gave it plus three so it had a 17 inch base move when I would move it And it had run in charge after power level two and retreat in charge after power level four So like 20 plus the charge potentially Right. And so what I could do is I would jump this across the table 23 inches and charge something And stick it like jam it down somebody's throat when they had zoned out the area Like even if they had zoned out the area I could get it in there and just like put it in the middle of the back of their line and pick out a target And I sixes to hit on like 15 attacks previously mortalled Yeah, right. And so like when it came in I could kill a five wound hero Sure, you know like so it did those things It doesn't do any of those things anymore And if I'm taught like if I want mobility hex rates do it better Yeah, like if I want a laser Olander does the laser better or I can cause yeah And Olander's a hero and she and and and better better tank potentially as well Yeah, she almost has the same movement as the coach Yeah Yeah, yeah Like I just don't like I see this and it it makes me weep truly Because this Because this model Like very few times in my life have I painted a model in such a way that like it stops people when they walk by the table to stop and look at my coach Inevitably people will stop and like Oogle my model because of just how beautiful it is And you put it off flying high, haven't you and I have it flying high like over mausoleum and like and it just like it was like it's truly The definition of a centerpiece Yeah And that and that coach will not come off my shelf anymore Yeah, my okay. So here's my statement on this. I think actually what's killing this model I I agree it's slightly too many points. I I think you're crazy at 200, but I mean it But Nico's probably in the more right area, but like the rules problem this thing has Is it should have never lost run in charge If they had just kept it with run in charge I could have handled the movement reduction as it still could have got somewhere valid Okay But the problem is at 10 inches. It's just not going far enough to do what you need to do Visibly the other movement options you have in this book Yeah, and and yes, it can teleport but that's not an effective You know replacement for being able to move when people can zone you out and board control and stuff like that That's the issue because the teleports like against a good opponent You will never teleport into their backfield ever Right, absolutely And and the fact that it's so I actually agree with assistant ref's point that its base is so big That it can often be hard to even retreat and charge Right because it'd be hard to get to a place where you're just legitimately three inches away from everybody else Because it's on the the imperial night base Yeah Yeah, one of the I just That's there I and then again, I would rather ally in a mortis engine Yeah, people get my little attack Yeah, seven four points for the incarnate and he's giving you you know re-roll charge roll buffs He's giving you spam or attack on your msu Giving you no retreat to go with a no retreat sub faction And he's a monster so your monsters take I mean this guy Blackcoats be fair does unlock a battle tactic But so does the you know having a right I just Like it it pains me because of just how bad it is For like how it's not doing So many things that it it could be doing or should be doing And the reality is is that there are multiple games that I played this weekend Where the coach would have never turned on ever. Yeah, sure. Well, absolutely like in the current meta It's a real tough sell because you have like It just it's never to power up against the chaos beat like against my uh, Nurgle uh beast of Nurgle army that I played it never would have powered up Right is like just there weren't enough beasts kind of like the way the battle played like there's just never enough beast for it to actually turn on Yeah, I mean I I stand to bet him at it'll never turn on Look the mortis engine is going to give you similar shooting power Like mortal wound projection power as the laser gun for half the cost almost Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, because this thing doesn't actually go slam into people and slam jam bam Like it used to if it had run in charge in a higher move. I could see the argument Because then it would be playing in a different space It prepares unfavorably to pterodons, sadly Uh, oof All right, let's keep moving. Uh, is there anything we'll say about the briar queen? Is this I didn't even read this I never read under So I'll say this Uh, I looked at it, right because like I'm I get one for free for midwest meltdown So like I'm painting it I'm trying to figure out like where it fits her spell is nice Uh, it's a pick a point 18 inches um uh A roll 2d6 for each enemy within six inches at that point, right? So this is another six inch bubble Right if you roll over their movement Uh, or you roll a double You do one mortal wound And it halves their move Yeah Okay All right But it's 280 points, but here's the interesting thing The thorns of the briar queen the unit that comes with this Is six chain rasps But they're two wound models and they're three attack models Yeah, they're just better. They're much better chain rats. She has the elite chain Right, so it's actually a really interesting chain rasp unit because You're the the unit throws out 18 attacks Sure out of a unit of six models and so like it's not terrible But you are paying a full price for a full chain rasp unit and a full wizard is basically what you're paying the price for Yep Okay, so that's what I would say so it's not good But it's like appropriately priced as much as people hate me to say that given how they buff to everything else up Okay, that's fair All right, let's get on to hex wraiths I won't say we saved the best for last but we saved a good one for last. That's for sure of the units Yeah Uh, actually it's 12 inch move two wounds. Of course, they're pony ponies because they ride ghost ponies Uh, and two attacks each three threes neg one one damage Great fantastic And then I'm going to read the second ability first actually Sure, sure After this unit makes a charge moving a big one enemy within one inch and roll a die And if you on a two plus they do d three mortal wounds basically the same thing the black coach does so they have impact hits on every unit Yeah, uh, they're 160 for five by the way as it says on the screen But then the real reason you take them and it did like all that's a fine profile, by the way I don't have any problem with any of that These guys are battle line as well And the the thing that I absolutely love phantasmal advance like I don't know how this rule Actually got printed because this rule is crazy, man At the start of your movement phase you can say this unit will perform a phantasmal advance If you do so double this unit's move characteristic until the end of that phase, but they cannot charge So these dudes can just go 24 inches Straight up No, no, no They can go 30 inches straight up because there's nothing saying you can't charge. This isn't saying they only can only do a normal run Right run. Yeah, like that's what I meant. Sorry. Yes. They can uh, they can trigger all six Sorry, they can do a six auto run. Yeah. Yeah, and and jump to 30. Yeah, I'm saying it's it's like So good Just be again the difference between teleport versus raw movement and the fact that then by adding these guys in And depending on your hero structure, you can have both abilities Working in tandem where your entire army Tom, you know, I'm addicted to mobility. Yeah. Yeah, like I mean, it's it's how we kept caverns Cameron's Mall crusher out of the entire game is we just pivoted just pivot pivot pivot Yeah, yeah, and so right being able to take your between the earlier like that's actually the build I like by the way, just so we're getting on to like sort of my we're not going to do this tonight We will do a list show in the future. Don't worry Um, but like getting on to a sort of concept I like um It's I love when you can literally just reposition your whole army Yeah, right every round. I mean, this is what I built my whole cities of of of sigmar army I played around right was just like everything can just be positioned and spin and pivot around And the my hero collection focuses on like all rack and the dread blade And stuff like that so I can be pipped so I can be teleporting and double teleporting reposition And then hex wraiths to just be like Way over here wherever I want to be right so Yeah, uh, yeah, I mean Vince I'm hearing a lot of list building and a lot of like my night haunt. Does this mean you're making night haunt Are we doing double night haunt this fall? We are not. No, absolutely not. Are you sure? I'm I'm hearing a lot of night haunt. You are but no, um, I just I mean every time we When we get a book I do make lists with it because that's how you be informed on what you can actually do, right? It's good to actually sit down to try to build lists But no, you're in front of me But no, I'm not getting talked into ghosty boys. Tom. Sorry just not my arm Because we could do double night haunt. You could do all the horsies in the world. Stop it. It's not happening Okay Imagine 30 24 inch move for everything. Yeah, I got it. Nico. What about anything else we missed about hex wraiths Yeah, so they can basically do a very similar build to the The black ice revenants in scarlet where you're where you're relying on ms unions Retreat and charging and doing the mortal wounds. It's Basically a trade between speed versus a bit more damage for the for the black ice revenants Simon we clear the club and Arthur are extremely excited about x-ray spam and as you say the the ability to move block and just general utility Go and go and score savage spearhead Whatever whatever you want to do with that 24 30 inch move is incredible But I think they used to have two inch melee reach on the side which they've lost which is a shame but Yeah, otherwise, you know very solid profile Cav bases can be a bit annoying at times But uh, yeah, it's a it's a really tempting option So you got all those you've got, you know, very solid choice between and you want to spam hex Our x-rays do you want to spam? Bodies do you want to spam? Black ice revenants or or harridans? I think they're all they're all strong. I think harridan is probably The it's definitely the least interesting and probably the the weakest because it's match up dependent on annoying awards sales but All of those, you know, if you like the models or we're happy, you know, all of those sort of builds are viable Yep. Yep. They're great. They're super great. So, yeah, again Glad to see I'm still probably the like Very old one of the oldest scopes. Yeah, I was gonna say well I'm trying to think of the tomb banshee and carnraith are older Which would be the other two in competition with these they're still very viable They probably all dropped at the same time for vampire gills I'd have to I'd have to go back and look at we need we need hooves We need hooves of doom in here to tell us when there's the year these models were released At any rate, uh Grand Alliance says that I don't really like them as a max size anvil He said discorporate and a crusader in the middle. I'm sure Absolutely. Okay Endless spells there are three of them I don't like any of them except the terminexus. Am I wrong? Really? No, like it's funny Like I've looked at it and I actually like the damage of the other two Like I really do um The shyish reaper because it can pivot Like it can spin so it's automatically going to catch Right, it's already it's automatically going to catch everything around it. So anything it's next to when it moves It will it will hit um and You roll two dice for each unit it passes across sure, right? And You add one if the unit's terrified, which if you're stuck in melee like you're terrified, right? We've talked about this Sure um On if you roll uh equal to or greater than the unit's save characteristic Which let's let's just be clear. There are tons and tons and tons of low say like three up save in the game now Sure, and you're getting two dice per unit every dice Dice plus one is most of the time what it's going to be is a d3 mortals And so you can regularly do two d3 mortals per unit that gets touched by this Okay I mean, I don't disagree with anything you just said But the problem is I'm not sure that low save is going to stay the case number one, maybe not my My downsize that is the threat range of you know, only within six of them and there we go That's it. That's what kills it for me Like the reason I like terminexes And I don't like the reaper or the vault Is because terminexes still has a decent reach to it Yeah, not as good as it used to be but still good I just hate endless spells that people can see coming a mile away or I have to wait until late in the game when we're up in the mix to cast That's a problem. You will the difference is is that you will have Right nor that's in the mix and that's one of the differences is that right nor will We'll almost always be in the mix. Sure, but I want him to cast terminexes Sure, like that's the problem Or life swarm or umber or yeah or or or right like yeah, they're all more expensive than life swarm And that's when you're off and running Yeah, one I but life swarm can either bring back the one where we're more guaranteed or I can heal your heroes It's just a massive utility for the arms It's tough So let me affirm though like the other and I like the other one too that does a bomb like I think that against some armies It'll be really effective But in general I'm only going to buy one damaging Endless spell and that's the problem and I'm going to buy terminexes the best one Right, and you know the funny thing is is that for the first time ever with terminexes When I was like thinking about my moose and like how I position my army and like in this new book and how it changed But the old one Terminexes was was basically exclusively an offensive tool that I would chuck forward Hmm Okay What's funny is that in this new world of hero hammer where I'm going to have like like a bucket Of of little killer heroes. You can also just become a healing thing. Yes, even more reason why I like it hits us all of them Because you needed to make that decision at list building Right, right on the fly. You can just flip it from damage to healing. Yeah, correct It's not even when you cast it. It's just every time you just this is what it's doing now You know, you know, what's better than life swarm that heals a model or a unit for d3 Something that heals all units within six inches d3 It can't restore my life, but you can restore models Or it was even six to To a single year and one term which could be huge on the calendar Certainly, certainly, but like being able to like push your hero thing in engage And then have the terminexes off the back of your bases catching only your heroes and not theirs Like that's a very real possibility when you draw. Oh, yeah If they don't have they don't have shooting that's really quite terrifying or like super hammers that were just one shot something Right. Yeah. Yeah, because it'll it would if you don't get if they don't get rid of it It will tick for a d3 healing every hero phase Yeah Yep So there we go. That's it. Good stuff. We got to the end there gentlemen Uh, so it's still really good still really good uh Turns out the difference between 12 inches and six inches is a big deal. So, uh Gentlemen Nico, thank you for staying up so late. I really appreciate it.  Especially if you like this new night home book. There's another tremendous success for me. That's my final final statement Uh, 3.0 tomes, especially after the initial two where we had a little bit of rockiness in the initial two for obvious reasons I it's just been strength to strength to strength since then. I couldn't be more excited. These two just continue the winning Uh, I mean, we'll we'll talk about doc next week tune in come back next week for daughter's cane, but spoilers I really love that book too Still really good And so You know, I just think this is an absolute win. I love seeing the ghosts become a viable multi path Interesting army with lots of different list building potential where people can use a lot of the models that they love And not be a dumb dumb like oops. Oops. Sorry. You built it wrong because you happen to love these models I hate that right and now there's so much in this army. You can use and have success. I just think that's an absolute absolute win Yeah, it's it's even better than no, but like because no, I've got the blight kings who are kind of the sad cousins the rest of the battle line options Well, I think blight kings are just biting their time until yeah, they were great last edition So, you know, they were great last edition. So I'm sure they'll be they'll be fine in the future. Yeah But anyways, there we go. So thank you everyone if you haven't already hit like hit like subscribe We're here every week. Obviously Uh, don't forget we do have a patreon focused on the hobby So if you want to take your next step in your hobby journey, um, that that is focused on review and feedback And that's a great discord community around it Uh, but hit all those things. Don't forget. There's also merch down there. There's a merch link down there This is the shilling part of the show. Welcome to the shilling You can hit that merch Uh, you can buy your team tyler or team tom merch to show who you support Don't forget, but niko. Thank you so much for coming here, buddy. We really appreciate it You're really fun. Thank you so much Absolutely And for all of you out there, thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it as always We'll see you next wednesday


Complex problem solving is usually not considered the stuff of child's play, but Berkeley researchers have found that young children are better than adults at figuring out how some things work. In a study using simple shapes and a musical light box, children showed a stronger ability to predict cause and effect, in this case, what's causing the box to play. For a long time, we thought that babies and young children had all these problems reasoning logically or thinking clearly or understanding cause and effect. And what we've been showing empirically is that that's just the opposite is true, that even the very youngest babies already can do things unconsciously like analyze statistics or draw causal inferences. Researchers asked both children and adults to figure out which objects were blickets, ones that would activate the blicketness machine. First they were given training showing which single or combination of objects would work, then they were tested with a more ambiguous set of circumstances. The children were much more successful than the adults in predicting which objects were most likely to be the blickets. These children unconsciously are making inferences, drawing conclusions, solving problems the same way in many ways that a very intelligent scientist would. But they're not self-conscious about it, they couldn't tell you that that was what they were doing. Do you think that cylinder is a blicket or not a blicket? No, not a blicket. The children were unconsciously more capable of abstract thinking, more willing to accept unusual possibilities for how the machine was activated. Researchers theorized that the adults tended to ignore the training that didn't match their prior assumptions, reverting to their preconceived notions about how things work. When it comes to actually acting in the world and doing things grown-ups are much better than children, you know children have a hard time tying their shoes. But when it comes to learning and particularly when it comes to exploring lots of unusual alternatives, we actually have some reason to believe that children may be better at doing that than the adults are. While children still may have a lot to learn about the world, adults may want to take a cue from kids about how to become better learners. At UC Berkeley, I'm Roxanne Makashian.


Brilliant, thanks a million, Ralph, and thanks for the reminder to turn on the sound, always forget that one. I'm delighted to be here today and really I'm only one part of the double act because Rob and myself worked on this particular example that I'm going to share with you today for our annual teaching and learning event. So when I use the Royal Wee, I am mostly referring to a lot of the work that Rob has done in the background to make this all happen. But basically what I want to talk to you about today is the escape room functionality and how we used Moodle to support that as part of a playful approach to our annual teaching and learning event. So, just in case you want to follow up with any questions at all, you can obviously follow up with Rob and you'll find me at Doug Donaldson on Twitter as well. Twitter, of course, being the last platform standing last night, but that's okay. Just to note that what I'm going to be speaking about today refers to 1.4, the digital, excuse me, the digital CPD of the ditch compared to framework. So what I would further do and I know we're tight on time. We present an annual teaching and learning event so a CPD event for our staff in DCU. This turned into an online format with the pandemic. And for the second year running, it has been purely online event with both live and recorded sessions. I'm very conscious of zoom fatigue and the amount of time we've been spending on screens what I really wanted to engender in this event was very much a playful approach and engaging approach to trying to work with our staff, which is a CPD so you can just see that snapshot there. The event took place September 1 true third. So as well as live events, lightning talks and very much some interesting flippities and videos. What we also did was create a couple of escape rooms. So I just really want to talk to you from that perspective. What we actually did was to escape rooms what you can see on screen was the first one which was I'm an academic get me out of here. And that was a live escape room done through breakout rooms and on a collaborative basis, which actually was fantastic fun fun to build and fun to do. And the idea behind escape rooms really is that they can create a high level of engagement because I'm not sure if any of you have been in an escape room before and if you have you can pop it in the chat if you've done a real live one. But this concept has started to spread into education and certainly within CPD in higher education. It can offer that immersive problem solving the experience now in and take it into the educational context. So, and what research is sharing is showing is that it's really quite an engaging fun way for participants to take an active role in their learning and that that was one of the reasons that I wanted to embrace it. Now this particular escape room that I wanted to discuss today. The premise behind it was that there was new features of moodle and just for context and if you see it in the slides, we call our moodle instance loop just so that there's no confusion there. So we had some new features of loop or moodle coming and what I wanted to do was to get to share that learning on how these new features worked and whether functionality was about without it being very prescriptive and very didactic. So I wanted people to engage and play with it themselves. So as it turned out, some of those new features didn't actually become available for the start of term. So, Rob and I switched it on its head, and what we looked at was enhancing lecturers knowledge of UDL universal design for learning. So we were looking then to encourage them to use moodle in a more inclusive way so the learning behind what we did was to promote that to promote that more in the inclusive design of modules. So actually what the escape room did was serve as a front end to a series of moodle activities that we designed a narrative about. So the narrative with this particular escape room and with escape rooms it is that the design takes time and the narrative takes time, but I think that's that's very important to keep that going through but the narrative with this one was it was the night before term started, and you had to be ready for classes the next morning but you still had some work to do. So the work that they needed to do were the moodle activities, and the escape room front end brought them into that little space. So I'm just going to take one second to move these out of the way. And show you the escape room itself. Just so you get a feel for what that was about. So you can see the live timer is there. And around the room that they were clues. So in essence what the participants needed to do was we started them by some basic UDL knowledge and at least pointing them to where they could get information about UDL, which was to our website. So what happened then once they solve the clue and review that site was that they could go to the lock. And the unlock code they needed the answer and that would release the URL for the moodle page. So moving on. We did do a brief evaluation after I'm going to go into the activities now but just a brief evaluation after. And it did seem that this approach worked well for those that participated in it. So you can see a quote there real live quote from a real live participant, and also in the evaluation when we asked what were the most useful things. 42% specifically mentioned the escape room out of probably a suite of 15 different activities that we offered for teaching and learning week. So without further ado, and this was our loop or moodle page for all of these activities. So completing the escape room release the URL for here. And the, the participants then self enrolled in this particular course. Now we set up a week where we set up a role at a type of role called editing student. And it was basically the student role. And what it allowed them the ability to manage activities and resources, etc. It could have been added as a teacher role but with the level of communication block that that Rob was putting in the background, they wouldn't have been able to be awarded points, and because I can only be awarded for participation. So hence that particular role. Rob did a lot of work all of the heavy lifting in the background here. And so there was a shell set up for these editing students to work with the activities. Again, the narrative and joined all of these activities together. So we use the tiles format, and the participants each had a tile to complete these various activities. The, each tile had a book, a choice, a forum, and an assignment, and the way they opened the tile was because they the first task was to assign themselves into a group and then signing themselves into a group, which was a simply choosing a color which was just using the choice tool. That opened up that particular tile for them. So what I want to do is just give you a flavor then of the little tasks that were designed. Now that is quite pale, but basically, what task two was about was, we have as part of our UDL Moodle design, we have a module handbook, and in that module handbook welcome messages can be recorded for the students. And that's what we're trying to encourage. So task two was to record a welcome message for the students themselves. Now, we gave instructions on each tile, because some of these tasks needed to be completed slightly differently than they would do in the normal circumstance just because of the way that this this was set up. And after each task, they were returned to move on. Now, I should say with each task completed, they got points, but I'll talk about that in a second. So with this particular task, this is just a snapshot, because what we wanted to do was get them to examine and embrace the possibility of using ePortfolio because we have the Mahara ePortfolio platform here in DCU. And of course, ePortfolio are very, very useful for multiple means of representation, multiple media can be used. So we wanted it again just to highlight that as a potential option for assessment. So for this particular task, the participants had to just set up an assignment submission and tick the box so that it would be a Mahara submission. Oh, sorry, that was the previous one, getting ahead of myself. So that's my assignment. Yes. And so moving on points. So in this points mean prizes. This is a competitive event. Now I should say that while the first escape room was a collaborative event that took place within a breakout room in teams. It was a standalone, if you like, offline activity in that it was completed on the final warning of the Teaching and Learning Week. And it took place, or it was open for use between nine and 12. So what we needed the participants to do was to embrace the room, and then we would be able to award prizes later. So for every condition that was met. So for every activity that was marked as completed, and the participants gained prizes. So this was done using the level up. So that's a gamification tool that can award students XP points for doing certain things. So it's been used heavily within DCU for the online orientation to motivate students to complete all of their orientation tasks. So it just was a really good fit with the playful team that we wanted to see running throughout our Teaching and Learning Week. So with level up, you can invent your own points, but we kept this schema very simple. So simply you were awarded 20 points for each level or each activity that you were able to complete as part of this. And when you completed all five of the activities, you earned 100 points and you progressed then to the next level. And that next level was that you were ready to start the term. So as I said, this was a time limited event on the last day. So it was before the closing session. So the way this worked was that I ran a report just before we went live for the final session to see who were the winners and who had completed all of the activities. So as you can see there, 14 people completed the activity and six actually 14 people attempted the activity and six actually successfully completed. Escaping the room and all of the moodle activities that came afterwards. So those six names were entered into a live draw during the final session and therefore that's how prizes were awarded. So that is a very brief run-through of how we tried to make CPD playful, how we tried to make CPD engaging, and based on the feedback, it was quite successful. Now, I think Rob will attest that there was a lot of work involved in this. So having designed another escape room as well, I would absolutely concur. There is a lot of work with designing these kinds of activities, but I think it's well worth it for the engagement that it can engender. So on that happy note, as I've whizzed through that, I'm more than happy to take any questions, but I will be very firmly pointing any of the more technical questions on the spec of the moodle page over to our erstwhile host. So. Okay. Thanks, Robin. And thanks for the invitation. And hopefully as I say, Helen gets better soon. And you have the runner-up prize essentially listening to me. But what I want to do is extend on what Lisa was chatting about there, about the game of fighter playful approach that she took to staff development and highlight to you some options for doing that in moodle. We did use several plugins as we do in DCU to enhance it, but what I want to do is to concentrate on the elements that are core moodle so that everybody in the room will be able to utilize these to a greater or lesser extent. There may be additional plugins that make it better or make it easier, but I just do want to for the sake of today and considering the wide audience that we have over 85 different people from different institutions may not have all the plugins at a disposal to use. So just want to make sure you can see my screen. Can you give us a thumbs up probably if you can see a chat. Yeah, all good. Yeah, great stuff. Okay. Okay, so just moving on to explain and now to clear up some confusion that can sometimes rise when talking about gamification. I put these three definitions, not my own definitions but put these three definitions on on the screen and what I want to talk about is gamification so using of the principles of games, the mechanics of games rather than games themselves. I don't bring monopoly into a classroom and teach people accounting or I don't have a very expensive computer simulation made specifically for me to do this. I just want to bring elements of games into us. And that's what I want to chat about today. So, to do that I want to put it in context and show you some games that could be debate in your life depending on on how much time they actually use up on you. But something like Candy Crush one of the most popular games that's available on mobile devices now at the moment. But for those not familiar with us, you have different levels to complete simple tasks to do as you progress throughout the levels, they get harder and harder. And there's bonuses along the way as to what you do you're provided with basic instructions in this case it's to bring the cherry down which you'll see on the top left of the screen, bring the cherry down to the bottom of the screen and several features of the game allow you to do that by bringing fruits of the same color together or by using stripes and eating chocolates off one another whole load of different tasks but the basic element of it starts off very simple and gets more complex as you get more experienced. The other element that's very attractive and that can be implemented in your, your noodle courses is leaderboards. And what they've done here and you'll see a leaderboard on the right hand side of the screen. Excuse me for each level they've completed they got a point. You'll see here the person in the lead is on 79 points. The person in second is on 52 and it goes the whole way down. And indeed you can scroll down to I think 15 or 20th position. That leaderboard encourages participation that leaderboard shows you where you are relative to the top people in the class and those leaderboards can be easily implemented in in moodline I'll get on to the, the motivation behind those. And it is important to know that they work for some people they don't necessarily work for all people, but these are just features that will be available to you. And another game I want to bring to your attention you probably know them already the Mario Brothers have been going around for God knows how long. But there's a reason they've been going around for so long. The reason being they have they have managed to tap into the successful options available to people for motivating them and engaging them with the game for over. I've gotten those must be 30 years Mario Brothers is going, but the top screen screenshot that we have is of Mario where he's navigating the particular world and he can fall off decide that if he wants and if I'm controlling and we probably would but my daughter would be able to jump and navigate 10 times quicker than I would. There was no consequence to that when I when I fail when I fall off decided I'm just bought back to the same point again, and I get a chance to try again. So does that whole consequence or lack of consequence, the freedom to fail is the buzzwords associated with it that's implemented in it because it allows people to engage and try and try again. And if you're good you can progress very far. And if you need that there's a bit of support if you need extra boosters along the way you can get them to help you progress. And indeed did the bottom screenshot there is I think it's Mario Kart if I remember rightly and as users navigating our racing or racetracks they can pick up extra bits of information or extra tools. That will allow them complete the course the racetrack quicker and gain more points and so on. So these are elements of games that I think you can bring into your moodle page. Excuse me just for a second. So what I've done here and this is a slide I use from a previous presentation again occasion, where I said gamification can happen in moodle at an activity level at a module or a course page level, or across several course pages within moodle at a program level. And there's various different elements there's the progress levels you can tell somebody and again if I go back to Mario Kart, or indeed carry on Candy Crush, you can see that they are on level one or on level two or it can see they've half of the first stage completed. So showing a user where they are within your course, giving them those signposts is a very very useful way to engage your students. And giving them the freedom to fail. And again there's there's lots of options open for this but giving them the opportunity for formative assessment, where there is no consequence if they perform very badly, all you want to do is engage with is a good thing. Learning pathways, and there's multitude of ways of managing each one of these learning pathways conditional access, or indeed individual rewards. So what I want to do is just go through one or two of the tools that you could use conditional access is the one that can change straight away. A lot of people have this restrict access it's there as as part of core moodle, but you can restrict it on a number of different things based on the role that they have obviously teachers can do things students can't not as in teachers can do things students can't and you can change remember you can change the permissions right down to an activity level would in a course page so some activities, they will have a student role and other activities, they will have teacher and what you can also change it on attainment so if they score a particular grade within a quiz. The next topic is released, or maybe if they score below a particular topic and quiz a different topic is released or different content. And indeed you can separate out stuff where groups will only see the content and it can be specific to the groups that they're in within moodle. So for me conditional access the functionality within moodle and it's actually called restrict access on the moodle activities is incredibly useful, and in my opinion very underutilized in most courses. And again, just to expand there I say from, it can be an individual restriction or it can be a combination of restrictions and it can be an and or an or. So this restriction and this restriction, they must have scored 100% in the quiz and have viewed the discussion form before they get it, or they must have scored 100% in the quiz or viewed to discussion form again it's up to you and it gives you loads of options to engage students. The freedom to fail is a great option and I have a screenshot here of just some of the settings within quiz.  And we've many, many examples of where lectures have used quizzes as formative tools, but then use that the same quiz or at least the same questions as part of the summative quiz at the end of the semester. And it's not just restricted to quizzes, you can have it as assignments, they can upload draft versions of the assignment, and that's, it's okay to fail it's okay to, to just have half the assignment on maybe you only want feedback on the initial the first section of your assignment.  So when you decide to change the, the activity the individual settings and activity to give that freedom to fail, or whether you just use the grade book to bring the value of the assignment to zero, it's 100% up to you, but allowing the students that freedom to fail will bring students out of their shell, particularly those that are not that comfortable with the subject. The different pathways and this is came up several times within the presentation that Lisa gave and and the Q&A, and Rob I will ask you to keep an eye on the Q&A, if you don't mind, and Jobin if there's anything that you want me to comment on but we came up with the interactive options to branching scenarios within H5P, where you also have the option of lessons, core mood activity again, and can be done incredibly well where you can embed a quiz within a lesson activity, or depending on a choice that you give them a link that you give them here I just have a little screenshot saying scenario your class mate Maria tells you that and give a particular text, and the user then has the option to choose buttons down the bottom of the screen the previous the next or indeed go on to a quiz. Giving them the option of choosing different pathways based on their interests or based on on their ability based on their experience really can work to engage your students in your course. And indeed somebody mentioned the choice tool I think it was Kenji earlier on and Leslie gave a great example of how the choice tool could be used. Giving students different pathways is excellent and one element of core moodle that I think is underutilised is the learning plans, the competencies and the learning plans. You can set a different learning plan at a program level so outside of the individual courses, you can set that for cohorts of students so all first year engineers must follow this pathway. Whereas all first year scientists follow this pathway, it's just one particular option, and that can be linked as I say to competencies and skills embedded within their moodle pages. So, that's what I'd say about completion reports and sorry that's what I'd say excuse me about the learning pathways. But what I have, and the final thing I just want to share what you hear at the moment in core moodle is the activity completions. There's so many different activities that have completion options inserted in them as core, whether it's discussion forms, whether it's assignment, or whether it's just a label. Here you can get a spreadsheet or report built into moodle on who has completed the activity and who hasn't, who you might need to give a little nudge to, who you might need to give more support to, or indeed who you may need to reward. And we've done one particular thing as recently as yesterday, where we wanted to get students to be involved in videos or sorry to notify them that they will be involved in videos as part of their course material. So we set up a label on the top of our course page, hid everything else within the course. And on the label, it said, as part of this course you will be recorded and you will have access to videos I went through the relevant data protection statements that was required, but they had to tick the box to say that label was complete. And when they completed that, when they tick that box, all of the course material was reviewed to them. Now there was no consequences in terms of they weren't able to opt out of the video and so on. But it was to know and to guarantee to us that we could say everybody has read that statement. It's like the terms and conditions you get on your websites. We were able to put that into our individual moodle course pages. So, and in terms of gamification and all the different elements that we've gotten all the different elements I've highlighted and indeed the plugins that Lisa mentioned Rob mentioned earlier on. What did the feedback say what did the students say to us about it and how did they engage with it based on the content we have. So, students did respond really, really well to the knowledge check quizzes at the end, the progress bar tools that were there and indeed we've used labels in other courses. Well, progress bars weren't appropriate. We had just said congratulations you've completed step two, three or four we gave them an image of it comes up. They responded incredibly well to that. They loved having the independence of being able to engage with the stuff remotely and at their own pace and place, similar to what Rob had described with our staff development activity to self paste from our students loaded absolutely loaded. And when they were doing the scenarios, they, it resonated with them an awful lot more when they were authentic examples. There are a couple of issues that they have students did feel more in control, but lectures felt less in control and sometimes lecture said well students that don't engage may fall further behind. So you need to keep an eye on that and maybe give them only a certain element of control. We examined that a little bit further with our colleagues, and it actually emerged that the staff were reluctant to lose control that they have over it so there was a little bit of the students having too much control or the staff not wanting to lose too much of their control. And, but one of the findings that came through and I was delighted when it did within the focus groups was its age and gender agnostic. People thought all games well they're only for for that. And actually games only work with young people, the volume of mature students that came back to us to say they loved having that clear navigation they loved having that signposting. They love the ability of them to go off and test their own knowledge without having to stick up their hand in front of the entire class came back really, really well received for us, no matter what the age where but I do put the asterisk there. And the asterisk side it is, it depends and it depends on how you set it up. And one thing that the came back as a rule that mature students didn't like was the competitive element of the gamification where we had leaderboards. One thing they didn't like is when they were put in groups and the groups were competitive, because they felt engaging with groups was was quite challenging for them. Particularly the mature students that had other, let's just say, other restraints outside of their, their typical 18 year old students would have. Okay. Two minutes there mark that's okay. Yeah, perfect. Just listening on the last slide and the last slide is gamification can work. Take it one step at a time. There's small things that you can do to change your, your class to change your course pages, but, and don't try change everything all at once because you will fail with it so have a go and talk to people like Rob and indeed so many people this day forward here on the networks and commented really experienced in the area of gamification. And if you've any questions or comments for reach out now. Thank you very much mark.