Hey, I'm Anfa, today I'm doing a review of the plupi headphones, I've made a short about them before, but that's not a review and I really wanted to give them a review, I think they deserve a review from me, let's go. Now I've written a lengthy script, but I have no time to actually read it out correctly from memory, so I think I'm gonna just use it as notes and talk from the top of my head instead. Sorry. Alright, so I've been to Sonoy 2023, that was in October, I've brought the headphones there, I've made a presentation about them, and I also let people try them out. When I've heard a good thing from people, they really liked the experience, people were testing these headphones there, I showed everything I knew about them, but I've learned a thing or two extra since then, so if you've seen that video, you will learn more, and if you haven't seen it, I will probably link it in the description, if not, poke me in the comments and I will do it. Right, so what the heck is this? First question, well these are headphones, so-called plupi headphones, plupi is a company made by two Canadian people and they make cool things, they make open hardware, I believe they started with keyboards and mice and truck balls and stuff, and all of their stuff is open source and open hardware so you can like take the production files and manufacture your own units, or you can buy stuff from them and then customize it because you can like freely print custom parts or something, because you have the files. I don't have a 3D printer, I have not tested that, but well, people exist who did. Yeah, so I've been using these headphones on and off for like half an hour now, half a year. On and off because I had a little bit of issue with PipeWire, I had an issue where PipeWire would not detect them, and like sometime later I realized, well the solution was to just restart PipeWire and that's it, and then they were detected fine. But I still was using them on Windows, so I've been using them on Windows at work for sound design, among other things, but also just for consuming media and playing games. I've been using them on Linux, actually I've been more using them on Linux for playing games than on Windows, but yeah, I've been listening to music, I've been making my own music, I've been talking to the developers about these headphones on the Discord of their company, which is open and they answered all my questions and they gave me explicit permission to quote them on things they wrote on Discord, which is nice. I don't think I'm going to use it though, because I just don't have the time. I really wanted to bring you this review. So, yeah. I also learned about various challenges that Design of the Headphones brought and like what are the limitations of them, I've had some issues and I fixed them. I found a single big issue with these headphones and I'm going to explain what it is, what are the consequences and why it's not a deal breaker for me. But maybe it will be for you. It entirely depends on what you want to do with these headphones. So, they are 3D printed. They are open back, over ear headphones with planar magnetic drivers. Planar drivers means that there is a little plane with a coil that is planar. It's not a circular coil and there is a planar mass, like planar magnet. It's like a couple of bars of neodymium magnets like stuck together, which form like a magnetic plane and the planar driver responds to that. So this is called planar magnetic drivers, planar magnet acoustic drivers, I don't know. Planar headphones, that's the big word. I'm told these are very expensive in the wild. So I'm getting ahead of myself. My notes, I've put some specific order of releasing all that information to you, which was expected to like build some tension and stuff, so I'm going to try to keep that. Also, I think I'm going to publish this script of mine, so you can just read it and also control F and find stuff, I'm going to put a link and you also can appreciate my awesome writing and how the video did not turn at all like the script. So oh, a big disclaimer, I marked this video as sponsored. And what that means is I've been compensated to make this video. I've been compensated how I got the headphones for free. I still had to pay customs, so I could receive them. And yeah, that's it.  And I said, yeah, sure. And they said, OK, we can send you a pair for free. And I'm like, cool. And that was pretty much it. I made the short video and I promised them I'm going to do a longer one. They didn't ask for two videos. I just wanted to do a longer one, a proper review. But I never found the energy and space time to do it. So now I'm doing it regardless. I'm like, I'm going to do whatever I can and I'm going to publish it because, heck, these headphones deserve it. Also, Ploopy deserves it as well. And the community very much deserves to know more about these headphones because I think they're worth thinking about checking out, buying, using, hacking. I don't know. So this video is sponsored, as in the headphones were sponsored to me. Nothing else was. Ploopy isn't paying me or telling me what to say or they don't really have any influence over me. They just answered my questions and that's was it. OK, so let's take a look at my journey. First thing is assembly. So I received a preassembled pair of Ploopy headphones. And the color red, which is what you see on the. Is it is it what you see on the page? No, I think they show black or maybe something else under discord. The red headphones are the icon of the server. That's what I thought. Yeah. So, yeah, and with a standard headband size, the pair arrived in a box in a bag in pieces. You might be wondering, like, how is this assembled? Well, there is also a kit you can assemble from scratch. And in that kit, you saw our things together. And I don't have skills to do that. I tried to move a zero arm resistor, an SMD zero arm resistor, and I ended up losing it in a blob of solder and then replacing it with another blob of solder. So I guess that it works. But I would not want to touch anything of. Her complexity with a. With my iron, big iron. So I can I can see like how getting the. Unassembled kit, it can be a lot of fun, you know, putting this all together.  But, well, that's too much for me. And I also wanted to make sure the headphones like a representative of the quality that loopy provides. And if I built them myself from their parts, I could mess something up.  So I skipped that skit. I so I scared I skipped that that issue and just asked them to send me a preassembled pair. Holy crap, I'm spending a lot of time talking about this. It's not really important. Right. So in my case, putting them together was just taking the driver assemblies and sliding them into the headband, plucking them in, just like tweaking the size of that, connecting the cables together, connecting that to the DAC and then the back to the computer. And that was it. They show up as a. USB audio device, standard USB audio, nothing weird about them. Yeah, you have volume control and that's it. Or rather, it would be, but this is not an ordinary pair of headphones. Sorry. So you not only can like really print your own parts if you want, but you can also reprogram the custom DAC or digital to audio convert to digital to analogue converter. There is like the box, little box, let me grab it, just set up with my microphone here is really not super extra orderly going to make some nasty sounds. Right. So we have this thing. This is the DAC. And what sits in here is a Raspberry Pi microcontroller chip, which is overclocked the way. And it processes the audio process, the equalizer that is in here. And there is an open source program called plupi headphones toolbox, which you can run and configure that equalizer and also other parameters of this device, which is really cool because you can like, you can really mess with the sound of these headphones and you can also make presets and easily switch between them. There is supposedly an option to save your preset to the headphones so they don't like reset when you reconnect them. I haven't had luck with that. Or maybe I was using some other version of the software that doesn't support this saving. I don't know. Sorry, my chair is squeaking and creaking. I'm just constantly making noises. I hope it's not coming through on the mic. I should have made this as a live stream, really. And the quality of what I'm doing would be excusable, but now it isn't. So they come with this DAC and a nice USB-C cable as well. Let's go on with my notes. Ergonomics. Yeah, let's talk about the comfort. So these headphones I find very comfortable. They don't weigh and nothing. I mean, they weight something. They have they have a bit of heft. But they're like they are clamping force is by default very light. So if I like start shaking my head, you can see how they are like bouncing around. Yeah, like this is not something I normally do. So like it's not an issue. But the low clamping force for me, especially is a blessing. Especially since I started wearing glasses and, you know, wearing other headphones, I found that, like, for example, the let me pick another headphones I'm using regularly. If I put on a pair of HyperX Cloud 2, which do clamp quite a bit after sitting a whole day in them, I I feel like the glasses are like pressed into my skull. And I just get a headache. So that's not very good. And because the cloud HyperX Cloud is just pushing the, you know, my glasses frame into my head and that hurts over the long term. But cookies are so light in clamping that they don't do that. They sit comfortably over, over my ears and over the glasses as well. And like they're not falling out, they're not falling off unless I do something really violent and just try to drop them, which is very possible.  And the headphones are going to drop. Yeah, I can sometimes forget I'm wearing them, especially since they are open back and they barely block any sound from the outside, which is great and terrible. I mean, it's what it is. It's great because I can like still talk to people without taking my headphones off, which is cool. I can just, you know, turn down the volume or mute something and I can talk to them immediately. I don't need to put down the headphones. Also, I think I suppose the openness affects the sound quality as well. But yeah, of course, the downside is you need a quiet listening environment or you're not going to be happy.  But they are not really meant to be carried around to think. But I'm going to get to that in a moment. Yeah. So that's ergonomic. Also, they came with two alternative sets of headband springs. So I would need to somehow take this apart. But there are two 3D printed springs in here and I could take this headband apart and replace those springs to get a harder clamping force. I haven't changed them. I don't really know how. Didn't want to break anything. And the default clamping force is just fine. But there are, you know, four springs, two of each size, like just symmetric. And you can place them, which is really cool. There's 3D printed springs, like it's crazy. By the way, the build quality of these headphones feels really solid. They're not super heavy, but the plastic is also like, they don't feel plastic, really. They're not really squeaking like a plastic thing. Because, yeah, I don't know. They're not clackety-clack. They have a little bit of heft. I really like the mechanical design of them. And also, like the ports from the front, at first I felt like that's really weird. Why aren't the ports facing downwards? This makes a lot of sense. Well, first, if they were facing downwards, it would be super easy to just pull the plugs off. But because they are pointing forward, I've never had this problem that I just, you know, accidentally pulled them out. But it also makes that the cables are sticking a little bit away from you.  Maybe it's minor, but I think it's a good design choice. All right, let's talk about customizability. So these headphones are, as I said, open hardware. You can find the production files and print your own parts. You can also modify the firmware that runs on the DAC. You can reprogram this thing to do whatever you want.  That's one thing you don't want. But you can customize that. I really want to see someone really print these with extra places for RGB LEDs and wiring them around them, maybe adding some chip or something, maybe in the headband, that would like, you know, maybe leech over the audio signal and drive the LEDs to the music and have them in, like, semi-clear plastic and that would be really cool.  You can't do this with Bluetooth. If you have a pre-printer, a tinkerer mind and a crazy imagination, you can do that. And I want to see it, if you do. So please share that. Right. Sorry for clicking the mic. Yeah, this really should have been a live stream. I just, I wanted to get a decent video fidelity, so I'm going to upload this in 4K. I also have some Bureau that I'm going to try and put insert here and there so you can see some cool footage I shot when I was unboxing them originally, putting them together. And yeah, also like doing some beauty shots with lights and stuff. OK, so that's about the customizability. Aesthetics. Well, aesthetics are highly subjective. I think I like them. I like the skeletonized look. At first I thought they kind of look silly when you put them on because they're so large, but that notion got away. I'm no longer feeling this way. I like this design. I like how they designed, for example, the inner part here. You see that? This little pattern. I really like that. They have also tuned resonators in this chassis that are made to tone down a resonant frequency of them. I think that's, I think I written that in my script a little bit further down the road. Oh, no, I did. I didn't mention that in here. OK, aesthetics. Right. Let's talk about portability now. So these headphones are not meant to be carried around. They're not meant to be used during commutes on the go. Not really. They are best suited to using them in your studio or at home. You know, when you want to, I don't know.  Or you want to use them to make music or enjoy music as you work or, yeah, they're not really good for taking them out. And there's multiple reasons. One of them is that they're open back. So you, yeah, any noise outdoors will just make it impossible to enjoy any music with them. Because they don't prevent you from hearing any of that. But there's other reasons which I'm going to get to in a moment. Actually, very, very near moment. So, yeah, I've seen people made custom carry bags for this, maybe even like carry cases. I don't know. I haven't done any of that. I've been carrying them around by disassembling them and reassembling them. You can see this on the, on the sonoi, on this presentation when I show this around. But I'm going to demonstrate now, maybe. Let's see. Let's see if I'm, if I can still do this. Right. I unplugged the, I unplugged the cables. So now putting this into your backpack is not a good idea. Like this is going to like lots of strain. This shape doesn't want to like conform to anything. But to lay them flat, we need to like take them apart. How do we do that? It just so happens that underneath here, there are two springs. Or rather, if I pull this out, now there is a latch. And if I press on this latch and pull, I can pull this out. You can see the latch now. We'll focus. Okay. There is the latch. So, if you just open it up all the way, let me show you more like this, all the way. Clack, press here and pull. So like, put your finger down here and press and pull. And, you know, for one of them, it's easy. For the other, it's ball bustingly hard. And like, I bruised my finger nail. Trying to do this. Like thumbnail. Actually, I think I got a tool. I use that to push down this little latch. And that worked, I think. Okay. I'm not going to do it now because I think I'm just going to take too long. You see, I mean, that's one problem that there is a little bit of mechanical inconsistency because, you know, one of these latches is easy to deal with. The other one is impossible. At least for me. Maybe you just, I'm just built different. I don't know. Okay, I managed. Oh, it hurts. All right. I freed it. All right. So now I have these three parts, which is much easier to fit this into your backpack. But what I did is I put it into a bag and actually it's the same bag. I got them in. Actually, this is how they arrived in these three pieces, the three pieces plus cables. So this is it.  And then when you want to assemble them, let's do it again. I mean, this is how much assembly I had to do when they arrived. The headband is perfectly symmetrical. It doesn't matter which way. So just insert, insert. And there you go. It took a little bit of force to insert one of these, I think, or like change it. I'm a little bit afraid I'm going to break something, but nothing did break. Right. And then you just play, plug in the cables. Okay. So you can move them around like I put them in a backpack, lied with them and said, et cetera. But there is another reason why you don't want to use them outside. And that's the quiet problem. So the BlueBee headphones have one big issue that determines a lot about them. And that is where all the shortcomings of these headphones come from. And that is they consume a lot of power. This is why I think they needed the DAC in the first place is that they just wouldn't work if you just plug them into any normal headphone jack. So also they needed the DAC to use the EQ to actually balance the sound. But because they take so much power and I mean, they can take upwards of one amp, one amp at five volts, one amp going into your ears. No, actually it's not because you see they don't emit as much sound as one amp would suggest. Because they have very low sensitivity, especially in the high frequencies. In the low frequencies, they are easier to drive. So less voltage is required to push them around. They naturally have a very large resonance in the lower bass, like 50 hertz or 30, I think. Which has some very interesting consequences because with the EQ you can make them the bass is crazy. It's awesome. Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself again. Right, so they consume a lot of power because they are inefficient. That's really it. And the amplifier slash digital analog converter slash equalizer box. It runs on an overclocked Raspberry Pi microcontroller chip. And this box is always hot. If I have this plugged into my computer, it's always hot to the touch. I mean, not horrifyingly hot, but it's very warm, I would say. It's always very warm. One idea I had for a mod is to add a radiator to this chip. I actually bought tiny aluminum radiators that would fit, but I don't want to cut a hole into this. Plus I don't have the tools. I don't want to destroy this beautiful thing. All this wooden logo there's really cool. You should see more of that in the B-roll because I shot a lot of B-roll. Hopefully I'm using it now when I'm editing this. Right, so they can take five watts of power because one amp at five volts. It's a lot. And I first found out when I started having issues where I would plug them in and listen to stuff and then I would turn up the volume and something loud would play and then they would go silent. I unplugged them, plugged them in. They work again and something loud happens and they go silent again. Turned out they were shutting down because they were getting too little power from the USB port I've plugged them into.  These usually take a long road so they don't carry that much power. So when I plugged them into the back of my computer that problem went away. But it is always warm. So this is a hand warmer. You can just grab this.  Oh, I wonder if I disconnected this as a device. I wonder if OBS that is recording things here did not get crazy about it. Oh no, I think it works. Perfect, good. Wunderbar. Right, so this is why you wouldn't want to use them with a phone or a tablet. They would just drain your battery real fast. I think I did try it a bit and no, no, no. I mean you can't do it with a laptop. If you're not like constrained with battery life and you have a long lasting battery or something. Then I think it's gonna be fine. I left people with my laptop plugged into these plugged into them and they were testing it. It was on AC sometime but not always like it was fine. But with a phone not really a good idea. Unless you want to carry on a power brick with you at all times. That's not very handy, is it? Yeah, and this low sensitivity also causes a problem. Which is like my only gripe with the sound quality. Have I talked about the sound quality yet? No, it's still a couple paragraphs later. I mean actually I hope, yeah. I'm still getting ahead of myself. Yeah, they have a volume limit. Which is a bit lower than I would like. Basically getting them to play stupidly loud is really hard. Unless you want to run a limiter before you send signal to them. For which you would actually need to... There's a ridiculously silly way you could drive these headphones. Ridiculous volumes, I think. Haven't tried it but you would need to reproduce the necessary EQ curve in software of your choice. And you would need to apply that to the signal and then... I don't know, multi-band limit it. Do something to it, squash it. Then disable the EQ in this little box. And have it just push the raw audio. And then I think you could get the maximum volume out of that. But it would be with dynamic range compression.  You're gonna get distortion. And digital distortion of that. So you can get analog distortion as well. I found a way to have them distort in an analog way. Physically distort, which was also fun. I did some experiments with bespoke synth and oscillator. And different frequencies. And boosting the volume to ridiculous volumes. And playing with EQ and bass and stuff. Pretty fun thing. I highly recommend playing with that. These headphones are a lot of fun to play with this way. So I mean, these headphones can produce a lot of sound. But it might take some tweaking. You might hear some distortion when trying to achieve that. The simplest way to go beyond 100% volume is in KDE Plasma 6 or 5. There's an option to make the volume sliders go above 100%. And then you can go to 150%. I think this makes PipeWire just apply gain to the digital signal before it gets sent out. Because otherwise I don't know how it would be done. I don't know if it applies on any emitting or something. So that's the easy way to turn up things when there's too quiet. Because a big problem with this is they don't have enough headroom. So if you turn things up too loud they're gonna distort. So you really need to turn things up. But then in your system properties have things turned down. But this is also really... This is also silly because of how the gain staging works. You have a volume control in your system. What that does is it controls the analog gain stage in here. Which is the last thing. You're tweaking analog gain with the volume control. This means that if you cause distortion in the digital domain first you are not gonna get rid of that distortion by turning down the volume. You get me?  I mean I don't know really what would be the solution here. I don't know. Maybe all gain staging should be done in digital. And just leave the amplifier full blast all the all times. I don't know. Of course that would hurt fidelity because you have 16-bit audio. 16-bit audio here. I think you can flash custom firmware which makes it 24-bit. Don't quote me on that. I don't remember. But of course you would maybe hear a little bit of noise floor if you turn things down very quietly at 16-bit. So vinyl recordings have been pressed using 13-bit PCM and no one ever heard that. Partially because we really don't need that much fidelity to convey a lot. Musically. Okay hot takes over. Yeah the gain staging is a little bit puzzling. So actually what makes most sense I think is the KDE Plasma's extra gain because that must be applied to the digital audio which means then the digital audio goes through the USB-C then it gets processed with the DSP processor in their DSP code running on this Raspberry Pi overclocked microcontroller chip then there is like pre-gain digital digital pre-gain EQ all the filters are processed and then there is post gain after the EQ. It's a bit weird you have pre and post gain but both are actually happening in the digital domain before the signal actually goes into the amplifier. So if you go to the Plupi headphones toolbox none of the sliders there at the top called gain actually touch the amplifier part. They touch the digital processing parts only. Yeah so you can get a lot of volume it's tricky. I would usually do it with the pre-amplifier gain. So I have some presets one is called even louder and what I do is I have actually have EQ post gain at maximum plus nine decibels EQ pre-gain at negative two. The default preset is negative 4.1 on pre-gain on pre EQ gain and three decibels at post EQ gain. I don't touch the EQ curve at all though. I have a preset called extra bass though where I also add 18 decibels at 24 hertz. Yeah it's really fun. Right so gain staging is a little bit of a problem because if you turn up the pre EQ gain staging too much you're going to have everything distorted and then what you need to do is turn down the source the digital source like if you're playing a video on YouTube or a music track on YouTube or on your browser or anything you need to turn down in the player not in the system control because the system control is only doing it after the distortion already happened. So really the system volume control is only there to turn things down that are nice and loud but could be a little quieter. I don't know it's kind of weird. It takes some time to get the feel for it and figure it out but I got to feel comfortable with it and I'm fine I'm using them I like them. Oh the chip is called Raspberry Pi 2040 by the way they even say that in the loopy headphones toolbox and there's a PCM 3060 Kodak chip by Texas Instruments used digital to help converter. Yeah and there's some extra configuration like over sampling. Crazy stuff. Wicked crazy stuff. I mean if you're a thinker if you're an audio person like I guess most people who view my channel are interested in audio in some way making music probably.  All right I think I've explained the problem. So yeah and because of their like natural EQ response they have this resonance in the bass and they have troughs in the higher upper mids and high frequencies or lower highs. Because of that the default EQ reduces bass and boosts our highs. And like remember all of this stuff happens in a fixed point you know 16-bit integer audio stream. We are taking the bass out but boosting highs and if we're gonna boost the bass a lot we can start pushing the highs the peaks of highs into distortion territory. And unfortunately it's gonna be nasty digital clipping distortion. Not gonna be soft warm soft clipping unfortunately because it's not happening in the analog domain. Ideally we would build a limiter pass into the firmware. You know this is open source you can do that. You can take this thing and figure out how to make it gain without clipping to get more volume. I don't know they squeezed quite a lot of out of this chip and they're really pushing it hard. And they have like 15 gain oh sorry 15 bands of EQ parametric EQ we can even do like custom filters like entering some coefficients or something like. It's dangerous. I don't touch this I'm told you can blast your ears off if you're not careful with that. So you might think okay so the headphones are a little bit quiet is that it? Well kind of yes. But it's a bit more nuanced. I found that it's a really difficult problem to solve. This is actually really freaking difficult. Turns out designing headphones is hard as heck. And this is my speculation but I think and maybe we don't see open source headphones more. I haven't seen any at least is because companies that did invest in research and development to design headphones that are like highly sensitive and have a flat like a desirable response and stuff. They don't want to share that information because it's difficult to obtain and very costly to obtain. But you know we have the first pair of open source headphones and what I hope is we're going to see crazy ideas from the community iterating on this design you know printing different parts modifying the software that runs on the DAC. Doing crazy things I don't know. These are definitely fun for tinkerers. If you're not a tinkerer you probably will find their limitations very frustrating if you happen to like hit them because you might not never hit it. You might never actually feel like oh I can't turn them up enough. Maybe you'll never going to happen. Maybe it's not going to happen to you. It does happen to me. Sometimes there's like a YouTube video where someone talks and it's just not mastered properly and it's very quiet and I can't turn it up enough. But I found ways. I made some presets. Maybe I'll share the presets on CodeBurg or something. These are JSON files you can load into the Poopy Headphones toolbox and have an EQ curve that someone else made. So yeah it's really hard to make this headphones sensitive. Poopy have found a solution. They built a DAC and a dedicated amplifier with a dedicated EQ to make the frequency response as good as possible and it's exceptional. But it also comes at a cost. They take a lot of power. They're not efficient. And they can't go as hot as maybe you'd want to at times. But the bass absolutely can. Is that problem a deal breaker? It's hard to tell because I didn't pay for them. I'm paying for them with my hard work doing this video. Or maybe I already did pay. I don't even know if Poopy thinks I owe them this video. I think I owe them this video. I promised them this video. So I'm making it after half a year. Maybe it's better. Maybe I learned a lot about these headphones. I don't know. Yeah. I think they're... It's an issue. It's a big one. It's something we can't jump over easily. But they're still really cool and really fun. And I don't think it really makes them not worth checking out or trying on using. After you learn how to wrestle with it, how to deal with that loudness, volume issue, you'll be fine. Okay. There's one more issue I want to talk about when we go into sound quality. And it's a thing unrelated to the thing I said previously. The issue I want to talk about is about the cable. So let's try to do this without tipping over any thing. So you get a cable with two ends. Each of these plugs into one of the headphones. You can actually find these are a little bit off-center. They are a little bit bent. But there is a little rubber thing that makes sure this braiding isn't like putting tension on this. That's good. That's good. The problem is this cable needed something like that on the other end as well. Let me show you. Man, I have such a mess in my desk. Oh, I did not prepare to do that. Okay. There we go. Right. So the other end of this cable, it's also twisted, right? But by default, this thing was not there. And this braiding came over here and it was doing things like that all the time. And it deformed these plugs. I realized this when I heard some crackling sometime and I lost sound in one of the headphones. And I was like, oh, what the heck? I played around, rotated this a bit and I found, oh, it's the connector. If I unplug this, you will see that they are indeed crooked. See? They aren't straight. So what I found is needed is just clamping this cable here or like tying it together so that the spirally thingy, double helix isn't putting tension on these connectors. After I did that, the thing stopped really bothering me. Also a funny little detail. In the headphones toolbox, there is an option at the top called Reverse Stereo and it's checked on by default. This is because they made a mistake when soldering something, I think, or when designing something, some connector. I don't know if they soldered channels left and right in reverse in here, something silly like that. So yeah, that was fixed in software. Which is really funny. By the way, your advice to never plug anything into this DAC other than the Plupi headphones. And I think it's because this feeds unusually high-volume voltage and probably, yeah. I think it will burn anything if you plug it in. If you try to run, if I plug these HyperX clouds too into this DAC, and then turn up the volume, I think it will burn these. Now I'm gonna need to test which one is left or right because I don't have the cables marked. They are all identical. It's not like one has blue, one has yellow things or a green. I'll need to just check the volume. I think it's reverse. Maybe not. I'll check it later. Right, so I'm coming closer and closer to a conclusion of this video. And that is... Yeah, so if you get these headphones, make sure to clamp the cable on the other end so it doesn't strain the connectors. Bend them, break them. Okay, right. Let's talk about sound quality. So note that I'm not an audiophile. I don't claim to have golden ears. I know my limitations.  About 15K if it's really loud. So, you know, I'm 33. Maybe I'm 34. I don't know. I never remember. I'm always like, I'm off by a year. I'm definitely not 32. I'm 33 probably. So, yeah. I do have a very good musical hearing that was measured objectively. I think I have an okay technical hearing, but I have a friend who is like... He's completely musically deaf, but technically his technical hearing is incredible. And I think he's one of the few people who could maybe hear up to 19KHz, or maybe 20KHz even. He hears things that I am not able to perceive at all. So, I also don't own like a huge library of a collection of expensive headphones sets to, you know, as compared to. What I do have is ears of experience using Audio Technica 50xBT's until they broke. These were good while they lasted, but they fell off my head one too many times and broke a hinge. And I'm told, it's not repairable. There are no spare parts. So, I'm sad. I'm still not sure what to do with them, but... I mean, they're kind of usable. Actually, the hot glue made them usable, but I also started wearing glasses and it doesn't really work well. Actually, glasses are a really difficult thing. You can't really wear clothes like headphones because they also need to clamp. It's difficult. Challenges, man. Right. Another piece of kit I'm using, the HyperX Cloud 2 headphones. I think they're exceptionally good for their price. Really? They are not terribly expensive. Of course, they're like... It never depends on what would you think it's expensive about headphones, but if you're interested in music production, you probably have a little bit of a more budget than, you know, like $5 for headphones. Because they aren't $5. And the other piece of kit I'm using is Beringer's next K8 monitors. A pair of them. I've been using them for, man. Oh, a lot. Like, eight years. Maybe a decade now. I think they're really nice. I also worked a little bit on Rockets 5... 5-inch Rockets R5 or whatever they're called. And the guy... The guy who founded KRK, he also designed these monitors for Beringer. And I think they sound excellent. So that's my reference. I have lots of experience producing music. I've also experienced designing sound. I'm professionally doing some of that. Yeah. And I think this Plippy headphones sound really good. I don't have any issues with them other than the volume and the clipping, which can sometimes happen because of the volume. But the sound, I think, is exceptionally good. I think they... You know, I might be hallucinating. I'm also totally biased. But I think that when I started, like, listening to music on them, I started realizing things like small details that I haven't seen before. It's like someone gave me glasses and things that were kind of blurry and blended together. I put them on and suddenly I felt like I can actually tell what's there. And that was a nice feeling. It is a nice feeling. Also, they have a very nice bass, which goes deep. And it feels very, like, punchy, but soft and very well controlled. So when you plug them in, there is a little click and the bass is ringing. You can hear, like, a little bit of, you know, aftermath of that click. But that's because the click is not going for the EQ. It's an analog pulse. It's just probably released from the DAC or the amplifier when they power on. So that is the, like, the raw frequency response of the headphones ringing out. But that's not happening when I listen to music on them or anything else. The bass doesn't ring. Like, I don't hear, like, a cascading bass tone after things. It sounds well controlled. I also think the stereo field is somehow it feels wider. I don't know why. People tell me it's because of their own, because they are open-back. And I don't really use open-back headphones much. I mean, I haven't used open-back headphones before I started using these. Well, the last open-back headphones I actually used were... Oh, no, they're not here. The porta-prose. That was the last pair of open-back headphones I've actually used. I bought them specifically for wearing them under a biking helmet. And I, like, blasted drone-based to going to work at, like, 6 a.m. Oh, man, that was incredible. Incredible memories. I'm happy I'm not there anymore. Yeah. So... And also, like, these are the first planner-magnetic drivers I've ever listened to. All the headphones I have are standard coil drivers. Like... Coil as in... coil. I don't know. If you look up planner headphones, planner as in plane, you will find why. I think they sound very good. I don't really have any complaints. I like the sound. I like the bass. I like how crazy the bass can be if you play with the EQ. Really fun. Really fun stuff. I don't think there are any other headphones on the market that can give you an experience, like, as if you're, like, attending a live concert. Or, like, and standing next, you know, near the stage.  A bell curve. They start dancing on your head. You're almost feeling it in your chest. That's my sensation, at least. And it... Like, I've been listening to some, you know, EDM bangers this way. It's so much fun, you know? Really. That's incredible. I don't think there's a lot of headphones that could give this experience. And I think... It's... This thing alone might be worth the money if you're, you know, if you're kind of a person that likes this kind of interesting experiences and novelty. If that's not your thing, I think there's still solid headphones. Very interesting. They have this limitation of volume. It might or might not be a problem for you. I think a lot of people might not discover even that there is a limitation. But I've seen people complain about that, and I did complain myself, and we talked about this, why and how and what. Yeah, so it just turns out the amplifier in the DAC box is just maxed out. The chip just can't... Can't produce more power. So yeah, the only way to squeeze more volume would be to implement a limiter after the EQ in the DAC. But I have no idea how to program in, I don't know, what it's C? Assembly? I don't know. I think C. And I would not dare put on my head stuff that I programmed and experiment. People lost hearing because of Dragonfly Reverb bugs. I don't want to add any more of that to the world. Rep. Let's talk about cost. The preassembled kit costs 255 Canadian dollars. The preassembled kit is what I got. That is... translates roughly to $189 US and 173 Euro as of today. And the kit for self-assembly where you solder all the pieces you build the DAC board yourself from components and stuff that costs $135 Canadian dollars. So $255 Canadian dollars versus $135. Quite a substantial difference. It's 80% cheaper or something. I don't know. And that would translate to $150 US or 105 Euros. So around 100 Euros you can get the assembly kit if you are a DIY electronics person excluding shipping from Canada. So if you're abroad you need to factor in shipping cost and the base price is in Canadian coins things might change because are the headphones worth the money? Testimonials I read online said that they are actually a very good deal for the sound quality and the source for that is that up to I think the cheapest planner magnetic driver headphones right now are like $400 or something or at least they were six months ago when I was doing research or more but it's like it's like a very new thing that they are so cheap and the next thing is like a hundred $1000 US dollars and I've read people who were like they were like testing comparing these headphones that costed you now $20,000 or $30,000 and comparing them to loopies and they gave very favorable reviews which I think is quite insane and the shortcoming of the volume and that they need their own power they need their own brick I think it's a worthy suck if you want planner magnetic driver headphones this is the cheapest way you can get them I think if that's your thing I didn't know it was a thing until I learned about these I have no idea how does work differently I don't know I just like their sound they're really cool so I suppose they are pretty much worth it for the sound I can't judge it I'm not an audiophile not even close yeah and that is all I have for you today I think Poopy is a really cool company I've been talking to the guys mainly Phil who was like my contact for for this whole this whole thing I'm really thankful that they sent me the headphones and that I could do a video about them I did the short that was like six months ago now I'm doing the review I'm kind of sad that I can't really do this review like better technically because I just can't afford to spend a month editing this video but yeah I think I think this is a very interesting product to check out and also like they have all their mice and cables and keyboards so you might find something else that they make that you also like check them out at Poopy.co thanks for watching take care holy crap holy crap oh this thing is hot oh this light is hot lots of watts lots of watts oh I could record videos like this welcome in the unboxing now I try to do this with a color prompter which I made out of cardboard it didn't work out because I don't have a transparent enough plastic sheet


Hey everybody, it's Jennifer Gonzalez for Cult of Pedagogy. I am reporting again on the book Make It Stick and in this video. I'm going to talk to you about chapter 4, which is called Embrace Difficulties I'm going to read you a quote from it because I think this kind of covers the whole idea of the chapter is that for learning to be lasting it It should be a little bit hard we shouldn't necessarily spoon-feed things and make it really easy because that process of Learning if it's a little bit challenging and difficult it will actually stick with the learner longer So here's the quote from this chapter when you're asked to struggle with solving a problem before being shown how to solve it The subsequent solution is better learned and more durably remembered in this process They're calling it generative learning in other words you it's almost like constructive is and you sort of Generate your own learning instead of someone just saying this is the way it is and then here you go So I was thinking about how this applies to our teaching One thing is that you know when our students are complaining that an assignment is too hard That's not necessarily a bad thing that shouldn't mean that you abandon the lesson You should I think look at whether or not the lesson is designed poorly But consider maybe it's just that they're not going to get it right away and that may be a good thing Another thing is that we talk a lot in education about how failure Is a is a desirable thing and that we should embrace it, but there's not a lot of how-to Or a lot of discussion about how to actually do that And so what they suggest in this book is that we should actually kind of be building that in to our lessons Okay, my daughter wants to say hi really quick. Okay. Anyway So in this book I think they talk about sort of like actually making failure part of the lesson plan And so one example I was thinking of is suppose you're trying to teach Kids the scientific method instead of just saying this is the scientific method sort of have them try to design an experiment and See if it doesn't work the way they want it to then they kind of learn from that experience from the failure Instead of just saying here are the steps and checking everything out ahead of time Have them kind of stumble a little bit and then the learning that they'll do will be a lot longer lasting That's chapter four


Back with the Department of Health, we want to be healthy, not only individually, but as a community. Sarah Park is our guest today, my co-host, Kisha King. Sarah Park is, can I say this, the state epidemiologist? Oh, very good. Yeah, not bad, you know. Pretty good. Yeah, you got to study that word. Yes, you do. Sarah, what is an epidemiologist? Well, so I should start and say it's not tied to a specific subject matter in that a lot of people, because of my role and what I do, they tend to think that an epidemiologist only works on infectious disease issues. But an epidemiologist basically just studies disease trends, how those conditions are impacted in the population, you know, in individuals and how the differences occur in individuals, why they occur in particular individuals, but not in others. It's basically understanding what's going on, you know, with those diseases. It's not particularly to infectious disease. There are chronic disease epidemiologists. There are environmental health epidemiologists, maternal child health. I just tend to focus on infectious disease. Okay. But it sounds to me like epidemiology is only one of your roles to do other things as well in our state. So we're here to talk about, what are we here to talk about, Kisha? Today we're going to talk about rat lungworm disease. We're going to talk about why it's here. There are so many cases here. Why? Well, it's not so many cases, but it's more cases definitely than we'd like to see. I remember when this first came up and it was in the early 2000s. I call it the odd years. Yeah, we don't know what to call those years. No. They were a dark hole. Maybe this is a dark hole too, this one, this decade. Anyway, so here we are in the early 2000s and some cases come up on the big island and we're all kind of shocked by how this disease progresses. And it's kind of a Hawaii-specific kind of disease, isn't it? We have more than our fair share. Hawaii-specific compared with the rest of the United States, yes, but not Hawaii-specific compared with the rest of the world. In the South Pacific and the sort of Southeast Asian and Southern Asian areas, those countries or regions, they've definitely seen rat lungworm or angiostrongeliasis much more frequently than we have. They have probably greater risk factor in certain cultural aspects in that it's in their culture actually, some of them to eat raw snails or undercooked snails and such as part of their diet and so that's how they get more readily exposed in some cases. Yeah, it's not something we like to see here in Hawaii. Unfortunately, we are endemic for it. It probably came over either the slugs or snails being brought over or the rats, infected rats came over. No one's really clear how it came over. Which one brought, which is the original vector? Right. It most likely was introduced to Hawaii so you could call it an invasive species. You know what I like about rat lungworm? There's not too much to like about rat lungworm. I can't find a single thing. The only thing is if I had rat lungworm, I could not pass it directly to you. No. I could not do that. It's not a person to person. It's not really infectious. No, it's not infectious in the sense it's not a person to person infection. It has to be consumed. So you have to accidentally or intentionally, as we've seen in some cases, surprisingly, consume either an infected snail or a slug or there are a few other potentially, they call it paratonic hosts. But generally speaking, we're talking about slugs or snails. You ate a rat. You'd be at risk. No, not necessarily. So more snails are worse than rats then? Right. Because rats are generally, they're infected with a different stage of the parasite. So the parasite goes through various stages of its life cycle. And the stage it's in, in the slug or snail, is the stage that's perfect for us to get infected. Whereas the stage it's in, in the rat, not necessarily so. So I think most people are not going to be eating rats where they're obviously infected with parasite worms. I knew it probably would take away the green pass in the restaurant. They were serving rats. I think most people will be turning up their noses and be a little bit wary of any place that had rats around in their eating establishment. So it's a circle. It's a cycle, right? In all seriousness, yes. And the cycle between humans and rats. Well, so it's not between humans. Humans, we fall into the life cycle. So the life cycle is... Oh, we're not part of it. We're not part of the life cycle. The regular life cycle is slug, snails or mollusks and rats.  What we mean by definitive host is that's where the parasite reproduces itself. Whereas the slug or snail is what we call an intermediate host. They just sort of carry one stage of the parasite, but the parasite actually can't reproduce in the snail or slug. So if you imagine, you could, if we ever, by any miracle, eliminated all mollusks, we could potentially affect the life cycle to a certain extent. But more effective would be to get rid of rats or to limit or control the population rats. Because as I said, they're the definitive hosts. You cut out the cycle that way. They're the ones that the parasite reproduces constantly in. So if you cut out that ability to reproduce itself, you know, you control the rats, then you can control the potential for us to get infected. We fall into that life cycle because slugs or snails, anyone of us who lives in Hawaii knows, you know, in the morning, in the early evening, you've seen the snail trails, the slug trails, right? And if you've got a home garden or even just any vegetation, you can see those slugs or snails going into the leaves and getting into the crevices.  If you overturn those, you'll find plenty of these slugs or snails. But where I was going with the home garden and such is that slugs or snails. Well, not the slime, the slugs or snails. It's not the slime because I have a reference to Ghostbusters, the movie, when they said, oh, I've been slimed. Okay, but no, it's the slug or snail. So the tissue of these slugs or snail are just totally teeming, can be teeming with this parasite. We accidentally ingested it. If we didn't wash our lettuce or these days a lot of people are into kale and you imagine, so when you wash your lettuce, your head of lettuce, when you get it home from the farmer's market or you grew it in your backyard, do you take it apart leaf by leaf and inspect it? Because that's what we recommend in the state of Hawaii, is that if you're home, you have homegrown vegetation, you should be inspecting that leaf, especially the leafy greens, leaf by leaf and rinsing it with your hands mechanically. The natural and organic is not the way to go. Well, it can be, we're still saying healthy greens are healthy for you, but you just need to be careful. They just need to have it out of the ground, not clean it. I mean, that's what happened in the odd years. They would grow it in the backyard and then they wouldn't clean it right and then they would eat it and bingo. A lot of people, their practice, when we've interviewed folks, we find that a lot of people just run and take the head of lettuce or a few leaves and they put it under running water, shake it off and then put it on the counter or on the cutting board and proceed to make their salad or whatnot. But we've also found that by doing that, you could potentially miss some of the slugs or stales. Here's my big question, Sarah. Falled into those corners. Big question. I was thinking about what big question I would ask you. This is a big question. I go into a restaurant and I order a salad. This is not unusual or wonderful because that's mostly what I order. Salad. So do I. It shows on you, it doesn't show on me. Anyway, how do I know that the people who have prepared that salad are doing the right thing? In any restaurant in this state, there could be somebody who doesn't do the right thing. So it's not a matter of looking at the small towns on the big island or anything like that. It could be anywhere, right? Sure. So the risk is here in the state of Hawaii and it's all about, it's not necessarily homegrown or whatnot. We're finding also, likely, there's a suggestion that it's also how you store your food. So as far as eating establishments, you mentioned that the placard system that our environmental health colleagues in the department have instituted several years ago. And so that is one way to be assured that our eating establishments are following the food code correctly, making sure that things are handled appropriately. It's anecdotal though. The inspector goes in, he makes sure that at that moment in time, and he may have a surprise inspection. I know that. Sure. But at that moment in time, everybody's doing it right. But then next day, maybe somebody doesn't do the right thing. Well, there's always that risk, right? But I think many of the establishments, I mean, this is their reputation. If the word gets out about something, their reputation is down to it. The end of that restaurant. That's the end of their business, exactly. So there's, nothing is 100%, but it is a means to have some reassurance that people are acting accordingly in the eating establishments. The other thing to think about is that we're not talking about produce from the mainland. And the amount of produce that is required to supply these establishments, a lot of them are getting their supplies and most of them are getting them from the mainland. Now, there is the Farm to Table movement where there's local produce, but what we've seen is that a lot of these eating establishments, I mean, they're very well aware of this risk factor, as well as a lot more common foodborne diseases like E. coli, Salmonella, Shigella and such. Taking pains to make sure the produce that they serve is well washed, you know, go through several rinses and such before they actually serve, you know. And again, it's the reputation. It's not just that someone becomes ill. Can you imagine that you're in an eating establishment and someone says, waiter, I've got a slug in my snail. Everybody reads. Yeah, everyone's, it's not just the disease. It's the fact that there was something in the salad that can cause an issue for the reputation. So these are things that I'm sure are many of the eating establishments in our state consider.  Or slugs. Or slugs. Or slime. Well. Slug, slime, snail slime, right? That's more of a precaution, but it's not been proven that the slime is actually... Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Right.  And you watch out in restaurants for the green pass sign. That helps to reduce the risk. You're reasonably sure that you're not going to get this disease. Right. Reasonably sure. Reasonably sure. I can't guarantee anything 100%. If you don't go to restaurants and you go to a food market that only has... You go to a food stand on the side of the road where there's no placard and there's no running water and you don't know what the food source is and they're serving kale smoothies and such. I would not order those. Let's just put it that way. You know, so I'd want to make sure, I'd want to actually see them hand washing everything before I actually ate it, you know.  I know there are people, especially our visitors, like to think it's quaint, roadside stand and things like this. This is not the place to be quaint. No. And it's your body. It's your health. Right. So I know what you're burning to ask, Keisha. Oh, please tell us, what am I burning to ask? I know you're burning to ask. So if I get it, and there's not that many cases in Hawaii, three I think this year, total? You know, honestly, I'd have to look at the latest counts. Less than one hand. Less than one hand. That's the residents. We have some non-resident cases too. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So if I get it, two questions that I'm sure you're going to ask. One is, what happens to me? And two is, what can I do about it, comma, if anything? I hear you asking that. That is my question. I did want to know what the symptoms are, because from what I read, it does seem as though the symptoms are much like the flu initially. Sort. Not really, actually. The flu, remember, is a respiratory infection, and so you're going to have coughing and sneezing. That's not part of RAT lungworm, a disease or angiological. Headache and bodyache, though. Headache. Yeah. Bodyache is not the same as the kind of body aches you get with the flu, necessarily. So if you think about it, the way this worm causes symptoms is that it likes to go to your central nervous system. Okay. So when it invades our body, we accidentally ingest it, it gets into our bloodstream, and it travels to our central nervous system. And there is no, what's the word I'm looking for? No specific area that they're really targeting in your central nervous system, and so it can go anywhere. It's just basically trying to find its home, and we're not it. So it keeps moving around until it dies, because it will die in us because we're not their home. We can't provide it what it needs to survive. But while it's alive and it's moving, that's what's causing damage. The physical actual damage it's causing as it migrates, as well as- Does it grow in size? Right. Well, no, no. But it's like a having, I've said this before to others, it's like having a slow-moving bullet moving around your central nervous system. Plus, it's because it's foreign to our body, our body's recognizing it's foreign, there's this huge inflammatory response. So a lot of inflammation swelling and such. So those two things, that physical movement plus the inflammation combined are what's causing the symptoms. Now, where it migrates to in your central nervous system is what dictates in terms of the specific symptoms that you might get. Some people complain of having odd skin sensations, tingling, burning, sensation in their skin. Other people have weakness in their limbs. Other people have facial, what we call facial palsies. They all have headache though because that inflammation, that, you know, there's blockage going on- This is hard to diagnose. Is it hard to test? Yes. Do doctors in the state of Hawaii know what it looks like? We're constantly hoping that more and more of them do know. And I think that those doctors who are, and other healthcare providers who practice in Hawaii regularly, I like to think most of them by now have at least heard about the disease and know where to call if they need help. I think our challenge at times are those temporary doctors and nurses, so to speak. The temporary healthcare providers sometimes have to fill in sometimes when there's a shortage in a healthcare facility or someone's on vacation or, you know, you see this a lot in the emergency department sometimes. Some of our neighbor island hospitals sometimes. Because there's not that much of it. They have health care providers. Health care providers, right? Right. It's not something that they're familiar with on the mainland. A lot of them are coming from the mainland, remember, and they're not going to be familiar with this. So it's a constant challenge to try and educate those healthcare providers, not just doctors but nurses and other folks who are, you know, the traveling doctors, shall we call them traveling nurses, right? Making sure that they're aware. So that leaves it to the individuals, to be sure. It does. Well, it does to a certain extent. But, you know, on our part in the Department of Health, we try to make sure that there's a website that has a lot of information that is available for the public but also for healthcare providers to reference. There is now a clinical work group that's a subgroup of the governor's task force, which I'm a part of as well. And we as clinicians are getting together to try and, we've already developed preliminary guidelines and we provide a link to that preliminary clinical guidelines for doctors and nurses and such on our website. The clinical work group is working on a, you know, a final guideline that, a more complete guideline for healthcare providers. These are all tools to help a healthcare provider in terms of recognizing and management. Management. That's the question you have to ask it. The big thing, though, is the headache. You know, and it's severe enough headache that a lot of healthcare providers or physicians will consider the diagnosis of meningitis. Because it's that severe. It's not just headache, stiffness in the neck, you know, various other things that would sort of clue into a healthcare provider that there's something more than just a regular headache. And that usually triggers to do what we call lumbar puncture, to collect cerebral spinal fluid. And that sounds scary to the average person. There's actually a routine part of a diagnostic workup if you're thinking about something neurological and it can offer a lot of information. So you take the spinal fluid and you look, and you can see it under a microscope. You can't see the parasite. I've probably, like, rarely see the parasite, because the parasite really doesn't hang out in that fluid that's bathing your brain and your spinal cord. It's hanging out in the brain. What you'll see is cells, white blood cells that fight infection right in our body. There's a particular type of white blood cell called eosinophils. And those start getting produced in large numbers when we have this parasitic infection. It can be produced in response to other things, but in the state of Hawaii, when we have CSF, or lumbar puncture fluid, where you have this case of person with severe headache and potentially other neurological findings, and now you see in that CSF that the eosinophil level is high, that they have white blood cells and it's predominantly eosinophils.  So now I have it. And it sounds, no, I miss a wild guess. I'd like to make a wild guess. So we know that it's going to create an inflammatory reaction. We also know, I think I heard you say that after a while it doesn't find a home and it's got nowhere to go and it burns itself out. Right. So the idea is to wait it out and avoid the, manage the inflammation while we're waiting it out. Right. So there's a spectrum like all infectious diseases, there's a spectrum of clinical presentation or disease, right? Symptoms, and so some people are going to be lucky enough to have mild symptoms, mild being severe headache, which some people would argue is not mild. And then others are going to have more sort of complications and neurological symptoms and such that last for a few weeks or longer. And others unfortunately, very few, but there are going to be some unfortunately will have severe disease even as severe as coma and even a couple instances of death. Now this is why it's so important that they're under medical care that a physician is following them, is checking their labs, potentially treating them. The preliminary guidelines that I mentioned earlier, we've recommended that clinicians should consider in these patients providing steroid therapy as long as they've excluded all other. Managing the inflammation. Right. As long as they've excluded all other infectious disease causes. Because you never want to give steroids to someone who has like a bacterial infection. If you do that, you're just going to make things worse. So you have to first exclude all the other potential causes of infection. Then you're pretty sure that you have this parasitic infection. The treatment right now of recommending as steroid therapy, high dose steroids, for at least a couple of weeks and monitoring while on those steroids. Because if you're on high dose steroids, if you're diabetic, that could be a problem because it throws your sugars off, for example. And then there is a potential that we're actually discussing right now. The clinical worker is discussing about the utility of using antiparasitic medication. And the jury is really out. The research that's been done and there's very limited research out there because it's not like this is so common. That would be experimental at this point. Yeah. So what's definitive, we definitely say steroid therapy. Cluster minus what we call anti-helmets or antiparasitic drugs and monitoring the patient very important. Now to back up to the diagnosis. So simple rule of thumb is, as I mentioned, that cerebral spinal fluid. But please also report to the state of Hawaii because then what we can do is help to do what we call a PCR test, a polymerase chain reaction test. And that's to look for the DNA of this parasite in the CSF. Now, We can do some testing on that and maybe even solve it. Right. So it just to give definitive diagnosis. Most of the time, like I said, if you have a patient with all the clinical symptoms, they've been in Hawaii. They've now got eosinophils in their CSF greater than 10% eosinophils. That's pretty much likelihood this is this parasitic infection because we don't really have other conditions that will cause that. Ideally, somebody even here and japs them, you know, because they talk about these DNA things, finds a way to neutralize, you know, the worm. That would be nice. That would be nice and we would be famous here in Hawaii if we solved this problem. Not just for this parasite but many other, I mean, there are many cousins of this parasite that cause problems in other parts of the world so that would be an amazing find if you could figure that out. If you manage it, this is my last question before I ask you to take a break. If you manage it and now you don't have such an inflammatory reaction and your body's immune system is dealing properly, however that might be and the parasite is like, you know, not finding a home. It's getting tired. It dies. It dies. Can it come back? No. It cannot come back. Once it's dead, it's dead. So at some point, people will recover if you're going to recover except as I mentioned, the few that might go on to more severe disease. And the other thing to keep in mind is that you may recover from the infection but you could have long-term complications because again, it's moving through your exactly, it's moving through your central nervous system causing damage. So if it caused some irreparable damage, you're going to have to recover, rehabilitate from that if at all possible. So there are other long-term potential effects. Not a happy thing. You know, and my neurological system, I just suggest that we take a break. We don't have time for a break. We're going to go right in. But we have to make it clear to our audience that we've been talking about rat lungworm with Sarah Park, state epidemiologist, and more. And we're going to stop talking about rat lungworm. Now we're going to talk about measles. Make a note. This is going to be on the final exam. Measles. This is the measles part. Measles.  I do not understand for a moment why responsible institutions actually encourage this. And yet they do, even here, even in Hawaii, you should go out with a baseball bat and fix this. I don't know if that's the appropriate response. And I'm not sure which institutions are actually supporting. I hope not. But because generally it's not a good idea to support pseudoscience. You know, the data is clear. Measles is a severe disease. I think this, in this day and age, our population is healthier. So, okay, one could argue we're a healthier population. We get hit with measles.  Other issues in terms of, you know, not as well protected against other diseases and such. Am I right to say that in a comparative analysis, if you have a lot of childhood diseases out there, although this isn't really limited to childhood, there's a lot of childhood diseases out there and some of them are really bad. Some are fatal even childhood diseases. And measles can be fatal. Measles can be fatal, but, you know, in years past, 50 years ago, 50, 60, 70, 100 years ago, measles was among an array of things. And it actually was not the worst kid on the block. Small pugs was, right? Or the neurological thing, I forget the name of it, you know, where you get an infection in your nervous system. Which one? I forget. Measles can do that too. Yeah. Measles can do that too. So all I'm saying is that now, we've beat back most of those other ones. Right. And measles stand alone and it is quite serious. It is serious not only on an individual basis, but on an epidemiological basis. And you are so terribly inconsiderate if you allow your kid. Oh. I thought you're telling me I'm inconsiderate. I'll make my point. Okay. You are very inconsiderate to the community.  Right. It's not only him, it's everyone in school. I would actually just correct you and say, measles doesn't stand alone. What is interesting about measles and what makes measles stand out is it's because it's so communicable, so infectious that it is essentially sort of the beacon of all these other infectious diseases coming back. It basically shows us if this most infectious of all the diseases that we're vaccinated against right now is coming back now, it's an indicator of how low our vaccination levels are in our communities. How long? And the likelihood that we will see other infectious diseases that we can vaccinate against. Measles is just, it's obvious. Because the vaccine covers more than measles. Well, the MMR does cover more than measles, but what I'm talking about is we have a whole array of childhood vaccinations and I say a whole array, but really we're talking about a handful of vaccines, a handful of tools to fight against thousands of pathogens out there. We'd only touch on defending against a handful of them. So measles, the MMR vaccine protects against measles, mumps, and rubella, or what used to be called German measles. And rubella being a problem for pregnant women because we saw devastating impacts on their unborn children, the fetus. Mumps being a problem as we've seen with our mumps outbreak in the past a couple years in terms of swelling and potential for sterility in males and females as well as potential for other things here in impairment and potentially encephalitis in the past. That's the one I was trying to think of in encephalitis. So measles can cause encephalitis. In fact, you know George in the giant peach, Roald Dahl, the famous author. Unfortunately, his four-year-old daughter died from measles and she had measles and encephalitis. She succumbed and died. He wrote about it. It's extremely tragic. And she was healthy before she succumbed. So it just shows that there is no rhyme or reason this virus can happen. The other thing... We've got to stop it. I just want to add to is people don't realize that when you get measles infection it also messes up your immune system in general. And there have been studies in the past to show that once someone recovers from measles for some time afterwards your immune system is not the same and you are more vulnerable to infectious diseases in general than if you had not had measles. That's definitely going to be in the final exam. Yeah. So what do you say to parents who are concerned about their children getting autism because of vaccines? Sure. There have been so many studies now to demonstrate that the safety of these vaccines, I know that some of the arguments that have been made in terms of additives and whatnot, I mean, think about the technology advances these days and that and compared with when these vaccines were first on the market. There is so far fewer less additives if you will in these vaccines and they were and there were when these vaccines were first made. On top of that our technology so precise that we can even limit it to a small amount of the protein that we put or the weakened virus in this case that we put in the vaccine just enough to induce immunity to teach your how to fight off this infection whereas back in the day there was loads more of protein or virus weakened virus or whatnot included in the vaccine so even all of us who were vaccinated in our day probably got more additive more of the what we call antigen in our vaccine that we receive than what the kids now are getting if in a way it's a much cleaner vaccine but I would also encourage parents to talk to your healthcare provider talk to your pediatrician you know express your concerns have that dialogue I think honestly one of my concerns in Hawaii is that unfortunately our healthcare providers are weighed down with a lot of requirements billing requirements and such as our healthcare providers elsewhere so oftentimes they're very much constrained about time limits with their patients when they really would love nothing better to spend as much time talking to these parents you know and so a lot of times there is some I will acknowledge there are some limitations in terms of being able to do that perfect segue for the end of the show we hate time limitations yes we would like to spend all day with you but I think I think we're out of time so Kisha it's up to you to make some kind of final statement about this okay I don't envy you that but can you make a closing statement I certainly will and Sarah if you disagree she says speak up sorry I would say the number one thing that a person can do to help themselves is to wash your produce that is because of the rat lungworm disease we know that if you wash your produce thoroughly the same way we teach you to wash your hands to prevent the flu if you do that I think you would really help yourselves and the community also keep the area around your home clean that way you can prevent rat carry the germ or carry the worm who give it to the slugs because the slugs eat the poop from the rats too technical for me and it's also gross but wash your produce wash your fruit you don't need any special things to do this any special chemicals just water use your hands or even a brush that will help with that and then I would have to agree with the doctor get the vaccines for your kids it's just that simple it's much cleaner now it's much healthier and it helps us all do you agree? I would agree awesome alright nice job Pisa thank you Sarah thank you it's great to have you down thank you you take care bye loja