Welcome to ThinkTech on Spectrum OC16, Hawaii's weekly newscast on things that matter to tech and Hawaii. I'm Jay Fidel. And I'm Raya Salter. In our show this time we'll go to Kaimo Key and visit the offices of Civil Beat, a leading digital news media organization in and about Hawaii. We'll meet the editors, reporters and staff of Civil Beat and find out who they are and what they're doing. Our ThinkTech on the street host, Marcia Joyner, along with our on-the-street camera operator Ian Davidson went to Civil Beat's office on a given Friday afternoon and did the rounds. Marcia talked with Civil Beat's editor and general manager Patty Epler, managing editor Jim Simon, editorial editor and reporter Chad Blair, Washington and federal reporter Kirsten Downey and a host of other reporters and staff who were there that day all an impressive lot. Marcia made her way through the office and learned a lot about who Civil Beat is, where it lives and what it does. An interesting tour and some very interesting conversations. So let's take a look at the footage of the tour and Marcia's interviews. Civil Beat is a nonprofit news organization and our goal is to help make Hawaii a better place through investigative reporting, explanatory stories and just keeping people informed about the issues and events that they should be paying attention to. Civil Beat has been in existence since 2010 and in last year, a year ago, we converted from a for-profit to a non-profit. So now we're a non-profit news organization. Yeah, I think people are really, really excited to support a non-profit news organization more so than they were a for-profit news organization because I think it gives them some, you know, they're invested then in the stories and in what we're doing and in the kind of news coverage that we're doing. And because of that, I think we're starting to see ourselves more as a community partner or a community asset rather than just here's what happened on Thursday, read it, you know, I think we're trying to figure out other ways that we can help the community such as Anthony Quintano, who's our really excellent social media editor. He has developed a training that he's been giving to any non-profit that asks for free. He'll go talk to them for an hour about how they can make their social media operation better. It doesn't have anything to do with us, but it's just a skill we have or something that we've developed that we can share with others. So we're trying to find more things like that. The website is free to anyone who wants to access it. All of our content is free since we became a non-profit. So Chad was just on KITV last night talking about one of my stories that I am doing on the Honolulu Rail project, going around talking to people that need to live and work around the rail line. And the last story was on Waipahu businesses and how the rail has affected them. A lot of them, you know, no surprise it's the construction has dropped a lot of their sales, but you know, a lot of the businesses are hopeful that the customers are going to come back and hopefully the road might do some good things for them. So for example, I was speaking to a barbershop owner. If you're familiar with non-dings of bakery, they make great Spanish rolls. She went from having around 140 customers a day. And when the rail construction came through Waipahu, Long Farrington Highway, the number got cut down to just around 50. She also lost some of her barbers because they weren't making the same amount of money as well. In fact, she wasn't even living here. She actually lived in Nevada because she ran a couple of other barbershops, but she moved back here to do whatever she could to save her business. Yeah, this is a part of a series that Civil Beat is doing. You know, us and a lot of other news organizations have covered the politics and all that stuff surrounding rail, but what we're really getting into now is the human stories behind what's going on here in Honolulu. And here we've also been recording our offshore series, award-winning podcast series, Race, Politics, made of Hawaiians. So we went ahead and purchased this nearly soundproof studio to do all our work here because the buses can be really noisy along Waila Avenue. Well, there's no topic right here, but today Stuart was on. That was him eating over there. You probably had him in the background, and he was talking about a rail again. What's the better route to go? Is it the general excise tax? Is it the transit accommodation tax? Do we look at property taxes? And his story looks particular how GET is regressive, and it hurts a lot of the more lower income, middle income folks. And so maybe that's not the best way to go. The point of this story was really to discuss there's no perfect way. Each of these taxes has a problem associated with it. You have the general excise tax, which is sort of hidden so people don't really realize it, but it's also very unfair. It's a regressive tax, the most regressive. You've got the property tax, which is less regressive, but people will see it more clearly as on their bill.  The tax is already high, so the legislature's going to have a tough decision to make. And that's what I wrote about, and that's what I talked about today. I help oversee the news operation and set some of our long-term priorities, edit a lot of stories. And Civil Beat is the kind of place where everybody sort of chips in and does a lot of different sorts of things. But I get involved in helping develop stories, edit stories, work with reporters, and help Patty set some of our long-term strategy. What is your relationship with Omiodar? Does he ever be here? Does he have any input into what you do? Well, on a day-to-day level, he doesn't play a significant role in giving us direct input. He has a lot of different interests, as you can imagine. And his office is right next door, and so he is, we're now a non-profit, but obviously much of our funds comes from the Omiodar network. But he funds a lot of media efforts and freedom of the press efforts and supporting local journalism all around the country. But he remains the biggest backer of Civil Beat. But he's not heavily involved in day-to-day operations. He is the head of the board. I am reading a little bit more about back-end database stuff, so how to manage our membership information and think it with the events that we have coming up. Well, I work with Ben Nishimoto and we are the development or philanthropy team. And we are growing our kind of grassroots support and all the contributed aspects of revenue that supports Civil Beat. So grant, major gifts, and we also do all of the events and engagement. Anthony Quintano, I'm the engagement editor for Omiodar Civil Beat, and a lot of people don't know what that is. I was getting my, so what is it that you're engaging? Our readers and anybody pretty much online. I manage our social from Facebook to Twitter to YouTube to Snapchat, Instagram, you name it. And so I'm always kind of, this is what the this screen is, is this is Twitter. So I kind of look at this. So I use, this is called TweetDeck and I kind of watch Twitter to see what's going on. Yeah. And it allows me to actually see Twitter much bigger than just using Twitter.com and monitor different conversations at the same time. So you'll actually see these columns shift and move while I'm sitting here. But yeah, part of my job is to monitor and see who's talking to us and see people, see updates from things that are going on around Hawaii and around the world. Yeah. So I do, I follow a number of journalists across the world and a number of them in DC who cover Trump. So it tends to fill up my feet a bit. Yeah, definitely. But me and my colleague Landis, who sits across from me, we both monitor conversations across platforms. We do live streaming, which I think that what you're doing right now is streaming. So we stream a lot on Facebook live. We actually have what's called office hours in one hour where we do a live stream to talk to our readers and answer questions and invite reporters on and talk to them and stuff like that. In general, I'm a reporter covering immigration stuff and also criminal justice issues and I have covered quite a bit of homelessness in the past, although I haven't done that so much lately. Well, the homeless issue is so big and it changes from minute to minute. How do you keep up with that? That was something that, you know, you just have to go out there and talk to people and, you know, talk to the folks who are actually going out and doing the help. So that was something I was, you know, I was doing quite a bit. You know, what we do at The Civil Beat basically is kind of, you know, tell the story from the policy level and see how that impacts everyday people like there. So I will have some stories, ideas that way and then go talk to them and how that impacts them. So, you know, it's not like I'm just telling you like, Hey, what happened to you today? That sort of story. But like, you know, so this is sweep is about to happen. You know, how does that impact you? I make and for the editorials, I'll make the illustrations for those two. Yeah. So I have a series of cartoons based around the Honolulu bus system. It's not necessarily about the bus. So right now I'm writing a little story about this person who is on a search to figure out where Circle Island is. So it's kind of like a mystery thriller cartoon. I am working on a story about Aloha Harvest, which is a really great nonprofit that's actually just up the road. And they collect unused food from restaurants and farms and stuff like that. And they deliver it to people that can give it to the homeless. I was told some time ago that the issue was being sued. And the health department was worried that if they collected food and somebody got sick, they'd be sued. Is that issue resolved? Yeah. To my understanding, that's not an issue. There's actually something, a federal law called the Bill Emerson Goods-Maritan Act. And it makes it so that nonprofits can't be sued for delivering food.  But they've told me that they've actually never had that happen anyway. So there's a bill going through City Council right now that's trying to make it so that restaurants are not required to, but encouraged to donate more of their food. So I'm working on a video and a story about Mokauea Island, which is an island off of Sand Island near Honolulu Harbor. Now, what is special about that island? Well, it's known as Aloha's last native Hawaiian fishing village.  So it's a very industrial area. And then you have this sort of environmental and cultural preservation work going on on an island just off the coast. So they, there are people who live there. There are two families who still live out there. And in the 70s, there was this big struggle against the state. There were many more people living out there sort of practicing this subsistence fishing lifestyle, and the state tried to evict them. And there was a big struggle. And this came at a time when there were a lot of other eviction struggles in the 1970s. And the residents in this case won, and we're granted a lease. The lease actually is only for 65 years, and it expires in 26 years. So there's some sort of like remaining tension about what's going to happen, but for now they live out there. Right now I'm working on a story about just a process of recruiting and challenges of recruiting and retaining teachers here. Have you been here at Hawaii at Civil Beat? About a month. Oh, so this is all new. How long have you been in Hawaii? At the same time, about a month. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's all a learning process. And surely for anyone moving here, there's quite a lot of ground to cover. Discovered about the new teachers. How about the new superintendent? She hasn't come here yet, so we're eager to hear her thoughts on what she plans to do and her goals and her background. And I know a lot of people are looking forward to her coming and what she hopes to accomplish here. We are in our eighth year, if you can believe that. I'm the only original person still around. You were asking about whether Pierre ever was around. In the first two years, he was here every day, all day. In fact, I'm actually sitting where he sat. He was completely hands-on. It was an internet startup. And the night of the tsunami, for example, in Japan, the nuclear disaster, he worked all night. So did Randy Ching, who helps set this up, another eBay survivor. And but somewhere along the way, we grew up to be on our own. And since then, the staff has expanded. And we have also switched from a for-profit status. And he heard earlier to a non-profit. And I think that's an indication that Pierre wants this to stick around longer. We have a regular contributor from Maui. And we have two regular contributors from the Big Island. We have someone on Kauai who has contributed. And we're trying to, I believe, secure that on a more regular basis. Initially, it was Honolulu Civil Beat. Still is. And that was the focus. But we've come to recognize how important it is to include the neighbor islands. We will occasionally run something from somebody written somewhere else on the mainland, other news organizations. We'll occasionally run the Associated Press article when we can't cover something ourselves. But very much we rely on this very core staff. And it's pretty much all original content. We don't run a lot of wire stories. Kirsten Downey, a former Washington Post reporter, she divides her time between here and D.C. And she very much reports on the federal level, Hawaii, the delegation, issues that are of interest to us, military spending, healthcare, as you know, that's a big deal right now. And very much a terrific addition to have, to have somebody in D.C. on a regular basis. Because local news organizations have cut back on that. And the Star Advertiser doesn't have anybody there anymore. At least I don't think they do. So that's a good investment on how much we seriously consider what goes on in D.C. to be important back here. I'm the federal government reporter here at Civil Beat. And as you are all aware, you know, we've had a lot more to cover in the last six months than we'd had in a while. The change of administrations has made a great many changes. And there's, I really view my job here as watching out for how any changes in federal policy will have an effect on Hawaii, try to flag things as they appear. But people know what's going on. And if there's anything that can be done to either support or resist. But one of the things that's a very big challenge is that the Trump, Trump as a, as a person is so volatile. And much that he does results in a lot of personality driven reporting and discussion appropriately. So for those who are covering his administration, you might say in the front row seats, my feeling about this has been that we need to watch not just what he says, but what he actually does and what the Trump administration actually does and what is happening in Congress. So I've been much more focused on how specific things affect us. With such a difficult and controversial president as Donald Trump, a number of people are all looking for different ways to respond to his administration. And what I've decided to do is focus on sort of the, the core issues to us here in Hawaii and look at how they're being affected. So the things that I've been looking at most closely are healthcare, the environment, education, military procurement, both the ways the military is advantageous to us in Hawaii economically, and also ways as taxpayers and as citizens that we can be concerned about things the military is doing here and overseas. There's about a hundred thousand people in Hawaii that benefited from the extension of Medicaid that happened through the Affordable Care Act, which people call Obamacare. So about a hundred thousand people could be adversely affected if either the House or Senate revisions to the health, to that healthcare plan go forward. So we're looking right now to see exactly what that would mean. As Patty Epler told us, Civil Beat is dedicated to cultivating an informed body of citizens and striving to make Hawaii a better place. It does this by investigative, watchdog, and in-depth reporting, analysis, and commentary to give us better insight into community issues. eBay philanthropist Pierre Omidyar launched Civil Beat in 2010 as a digital platform beyond print or television media. In 2016, to expand its reach, Civil Beat became a nonprofit and now provides its reporting free to the public. It is a member of the Institute for Nonprofit News, a group of nonprofit media organizations across the country. Beside its website, civilbeat.org, Civil Beat emails its daily Morning Beat newsletter to thousands of subscribers. It also holds public events, including civil cafes and Hawaii storytellers, and its Facebook page hosts community conversations and debates. Civil Beat's long-term goal is to produce journalism with a purpose and to stimulate positive change. It does not align itself with any political or special interest groups and adheres to strict journalistic standards and ethics. As indicated on its website, Civil Beat believes news is a public asset. It wants to be a community partner, not just an observer, and it believes it has a stake in the community, just as the community has a stake in it. Thanks to Patty Epler and the reporters and staff at Civil Beat for the tour and for being so open and answering our questions about Civil Beat and its coverage. We enjoyed the good feeling we found there, and we'll read Civil Beat with even more interest now that we've seen where and how it is made. Indeed, in the eight years since its inception, Civil Beat has become a cornerstone of the news media in Hawaii. We are lucky to have it free every day. It's an extraordinary public service. Unfortunately, the country's president, Donald Trump, is at war with the media and the facts, and regularly attacks media and reporters who are critical of his administration. This undermines the media and confuses the public, which needs to be able to trust the media to fairly report the news. Trump's ongoing war against the media threatens not only the media, but the nation itself. The First Amendment and therefore the Constitution are in jeopardy, and now more than ever, we need responsible news organizations to be courageous and keep us properly informed. News organizations like Civil Beat are more important these days, and we should treat them with greater appreciation. They are central to our democracy, both nationally and locally. Want to know more about Civil Beat or see their latest stories? Check out civilbeat.org. If you want to subscribe to their daily newsletters, you can sign up there. And now, let's take a look at our ThinkTech counter of events going forward. There's so much happening in Hawaii. Sometimes things happen under the radar, and we don't hear much about them. But ThinkTech will take you there. Remember, you can watch ThinkTech on Spectrum OC16 several times every week to stay current on what's happening in government, industry, academia, and communities around the islands and the world. ThinkTech broadcasts its daily talk shows live on the Internet from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. on weekdays. Then we broadcast our earlier shows all night long and on the weekends. If you miss the show, or if you want to replay or share our shows, they're all archived on demand on ThinkTechHawaii.com and YouTube. The audio is on ThinkTechHawaii.com slash radio. And we post all our shows as podcasts on iTunes. Visit ThinkTechHawaii.com for our weekly calendar and live stream and YouTube links, or sign up on our email list and get the daily docket of our upcoming shows. ThinkTech has a high-tech green screen, first amendment studio at Pioneer Plaza. If you want to join our live audience or participate in our shows, write to talk at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube or send us a tweet at ThinkTechHI. We'd like to know how you feel about the issues and events that affect our lives together in these islands. We want to stay in touch with you and we'd like you to stay in touch with us. Let's think together. You can call into our talk shows live. While you're watching any of our shows, you can call into<PHONE_NUMBER>. That's our new phone number. And pose a question or make a comment. And now here's this week's ThinkTech commentary. I'm Parker Wagner, a student at Mid-Pacific. I would like to talk to you today about technology in my school. My generation had to just learn about technology. We accepted and use it in everything. We grew up with technology. We learned to use an iPad even before we could walk. That's awesome. But it comes with a challenge. We cannot opt out. Technology is here to stay. Personally, I love technology. And I feel that Mid-Pac wouldn't be the same had it not integrated technology this way into the classroom. It's not just about learning technology. It's about using technology to learn other subjects. Everyone in school is issued an iPad. And our reading, study, and test materials are accessed mostly online. I read, do my homework, and then turn it in online. I get feedback from my teachers by email. And I upload my assignments. I do collaborative work with other students. And I manage my schedule all on the internet. It's very cool. All of this is teaching us to use technology in a productive and meaningful way. I know other schools have done similar things. But what we do at Mid-Pac is unique. Mid-Pac has many classes with this technology. And they are fun and educational. This gets us ready for the future because it leads us to great career choices such as being a video editor or a producer. I'm so glad Mid-Pac has taken the lead in putting this technology into the classroom. And I'm proud to be a student there. Thanks. I'm Parker Weignold. We'll be right back to wrap up this week's edition of Think Tech. But first, we want to thank our underwriters. That wraps up this week's edition of Think Tech. Remember, you can watch Think Tech on Spectrum OC16 several times every week. Can't get enough of it, just like Ryan does. For additional times, check out oc16.tv. For lots more Think Tech videos and for underwriting and sponsorship opportunities on Think Tech, visit thinktechhawaii.com. Be a guest or a host, a producer or an intern, and help us reach and have an impact on Hawaii. Thanks for being part of our Think Tech family and for supporting our open discussion of tech, energy, diversification, and global awareness in Hawaii. And of course, the media, particularly the digital media, in and serving our community. You can watch this show throughout the week and tune in next Sunday evening for our next important weekly episode. I'm Jay Fidel. And I'm Raya Salter. Aloha, everyone.


Drink up. What's going on everybody? Welcome to a special Korea town episode of fun grows food I'm in Korea town Manhattan right now blocks away from the Empire State building and today I'm gonna be eating so very interesting and trendy Korean food that just made it to the States right here with me I got Korean friends Dan and yet in so and on my right side I got unofficial Korea town Manhattan adoptee, but half Filipino half Irishman Ryan. What's up guys? So Korean gopchang is like very popular Korean Barbecue, this is considered intestines of a beef and just different parts of intestines Hwasa from Mamamoo Singers ate this became just like We're outside a gopchang story in Manhattan. Let's go check it out So when I was in Korea, I saw that you guys have the condition. This is condition condition This is for before to me. I was like, wow Koreans really look at drinking like it's like it's a sport I'm going out tonight. Let's prepare. That's like almost like stretching before you Doesn't work it works if you're drinking like moderate amount of alcohol, right? But if you're getting smashed, it's not gonna work and man, yo, this is all different types of a gopchang It's a Makchang and it's a gopchang and daechang beef heart. This one's like really good because And this is a rice cake Which just goes well with gopchang It's really good and scaly and all these you guys All right, let's get it. Cheers guys. Cheers. Let's eat. It's very chewy and crunchy at the same time But it's really good. It's got like a really intense beef flavor. I've had chicken heart Yeah, it's super like minerly. Yeah, um like you don't like I was surprised that it came out so beefy and not So the larger testin, this is it right here. This is like a little the tube I feel like it's definitely bad here and the gopchang. Oh, yeah So what Korean people like to do is they dig this in Scallions and a gopchang. Let's do it. But here we go. I found some tripe. Is this tripe? It looks like tripe That's tripe. That's that honeycomb tripe right here. They even got the potato stir. Nice and crispy It tastes like just Korean barbecue. Yeah, it tastes almost like just like it should we start drinking or what? Oh my god, it's ready. Of course. I mean the soju is right in front of me, right? Ma'am. Look at that. You cannot so much have gopchang without soju. You don't eat fries without the ketchup, right? It's really fried. This guy compared it to fries and ketchup. Okay, we don't usually drink on camera But since it is such a big part of this meal that you probably literally would not eat this without soju Let's do it. So Korean people when you pour a shot for another person, right? So Ryan has to take the soju shot with two hands. That's just like a Korean etiquette. What do we have here? Break this down. It's called yukhoe. So it's our basically raw beef, right? Serving egg york and These are Korean pair I believe and you basically comes in season and You just got to dip it into egg york. You say egg york egg yolk new egg york, and I just thought you didn't Raw beef and egg so it's salty because of the beef and it's got like this creamy texture from the yolk. Cheers This was pretty good man, you guys got to try this for me like drinking is the main one and the food is the side She's a dongsaeng which means younger sister or brother. Anyone's younger than you call them dongsaeng Okay, and you was like, oh Dan was like, oh man, that tastes good Not I'm not buzzed. I'm not too, but I'm like halfway buzzed on that note Please come Titanic personally Titanic is one of my favorite games. It's good. What you do is you pour your first Okay On top of that You drop down the soju shot. Okay. Make sure it's And then one by one you Pour down the soju and make sure it doesn't sink in whoever gets it something has to drink Brian sitting to my right side. Let him start just pour a decent amount man. Go for it.  Really? And you're definitely gonna get it Oh Surface tension Don't breathe don't breathe droplets Wow Drop the base This is pretty much a K-town nightlife video right now Cheers, what just arrived to the table? So we put it not upset. So this one is octopus And the beef inside and shrimp.  We gotta at least play One more Korean drinking.  I'm a little it's almost there.  Oh wait It's John John is like having the glass It makes that clicking sound and that's what John is so this is not gopsey and There's a couple ways to eat this, right? You got a great octopus. I got some shrimp in there So I'm gonna pour it on to my seaweed in a row That's like a whole different dish now Hmm, you spicy.  It looks like G. Yeah Hey, it kind of smells similar, but it tastes different You only have meat or seafood, but this one has like everything see now this man This looks even next level with the chives with the chives Coming on this guy This was breathing heavy. I got him. I got him. This guy's just Oh This one is my favorite. It's literally tastes like wild cheese juice So after they finish it in gopchang basically you do is it's a very Korean style, right? You mix rice on top of the leftover gopchang fry the rice on the gopchang And I think they put a little bit of kimchi too, and it tastes amazing. Yeah, especially when you think it's finished It's not finished yet We don't like to waste food So we have five fingers and like I've never oh never I've ever kind of like kind of right you say something from Korea This princess if you turn red wow that target man loves gopchang Blackout in K-town, New York. It was about whether you know the person. Yeah, cheers And thank you, Ryan arms for the poor All right everybody so we're ending off with the fried rice and that pretty much wraps up our gopchang story Video here. I've been a big fan of gopchang for a long time and every time I go to Korea I eat this stuff and this is like considered top five Korean barbecue for me So I'm just glad that came to New York finally. I had a long way coming So now I could just come to K-town Feel free to do something like feel free to try and use something because you know like when you feel weird It's the first time you're never gonna enjoy it, but when you enjoy it, you're gonna like it Well everybody now wraps up our video shout out to Ryan shout out to Dan shout out to Jordan Leave in the comments below guys if this is something that you would like to try until next time we are New York We don't please you really aren't red. No, I'm a little bit more like there's patches Pressure


You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. Prison didn't get arrested for murder, like loads of things came and things happened and sometimes when your name's always popping up, a lot of the things that you haven't done and you still get blamed for anyway. As dumb as it sounds, it was like, yeah, when am I going in prison? I can't wait to go to prison. That was that age, you know what I mean? And then when I was in prison, it was like, wow, I'm in prison.  When I'm coming to see you, man, obviously I broke her heart because I'm her only son. I used to rob people, you know what I mean? I used to skank people.  I used to kidnap people and that's not, by any means, man's not here to glorify.  And I've been out for four years. I had not one argument. But more people now want to kill me now that I'm successful than I was on the roads.  But then I think, wow, all these people are saying that have you had someone to invest 50K into you? Have you had someone that will come and say I'll invest 100K in you? My daughter could have, she could have a fee for a cold and it could affect her. She could have, do you know what I mean? A crisis. She has to get blood transfusions every three weeks. They said to her at five she could get a stroke. So she had to have her blood transfusions every three weeks. Boom, we're on. Yes, my bro. Today's guest, we've got my main man, Bowser. How are you doing, my bro? Thank you for having me, man. I'm good. Yeah, big fan. You know that yourself, brother. I've got nothing but loving respect for you for everything you've achieved. Kid from the streets, prison, armed robberies, drugs. Spent over 10 years, came out, decided to do something about it. Now you're an entrepreneur. Now you've got your own wicked and bad energy drink. You've got fights all over the UK. You've got fighters.   It's unbelievable. And a lot of people might not see that from the side. With success comes a lot of hate, bro. But that's business in it. No doubt you'll not care. But first and foremost, how are you? I'm good, you know. I'm fine, my bro. I'm ready for 2022. Planning some amazing things. Thank you for having me on the show. And thank you for being a presenter for Wicked and Badge. You know what I mean? It was very, like, we appreciate it. And I know we've got big plans. We're planning already even before we swap this. Yeah, man. It's business, bro. And like I say, thanks for the opportunity. It's a different audience for me. I've seen that. I want to tap into everybody and anybody. I can sit with any guest. That's where I'll show my talent. So again, thank you also. But I always like to go back to the start of my guest, bro. Where did you grow up and how it all began? Yeah, man. I was born in Gypsy Hill. Obviously South London. Born in King Scottish Hospital. So yeah, man. From young, I was raised in Gypsy Hill. Moved to South Norwood. And then went to my first secondary school. You know, when it starts from there, Stanley Tech High School for Boys, Harris Academy. And growing up, when you were that age is... Nothing was really... It wasn't serious, wasn't it? I used to play in the park. Mom lets you play in the park. I've always been big. I've always been a little fatty. You get me, bro? From that age, from young, I think...  You get me? And I knew from going to secondary school, I had to like fix up and be a bit more tough. And it was an all-boy school. So it was like from there, a lot of my friends from my primary school came to the school. And just from the area being like the area of Fortin Heath, South Norwood, Credin. Obviously, we made like, we formed like little gangs and that when we were young. But that was more of our family. And a lot of my friends are now. That's like from there, then they're still my friends now. Yeah. What were you like at school? At school, as you can see, I can't read and write properly. You get me? Slipsick? Slipsick. So at school... Yeah. You would chew it. Chewing. Bank of school. You know what I mean? Mark about in class. I didn't get expelled from school. I managed to complete school. But I didn't get great GCSEs. And I know my teachers were probably like, well, you're not going to map to nothing. You're just going to go jail or... You know what I mean? And that's what happened. But luckily I managed to do a 360. But yeah. Did you feel a lot of pressure? Because you couldn't read and write, but you felt a lot of extra pressure with the bullying. Were you getting teased and stuff back then? No. I wouldn't say I got teased from not being able to read and write. But this when you're growing up, it's just things that you might... You might not have the latest trainers or... You know what I'm saying? But my parents always provided for me. I was always... I was always spoiled. So I just felt like being in an old boy's school and an old boy's school that I didn't go to was a bit rough. So I just had to get tough quickly. Do you know what I mean? I had to... Ben for yourself? Yeah. I had to fend for myself. What was your mum and dad like? My mum and my mum were amazing. My mum was amazing there for me every step in the way. Through hardship, through everything. My dad was... Obviously my dad was there until... Obviously I don't know. When I was about nine or something. Then obviously he went away and started building a family away and doing his own thing. But I still got a relationship with my dad. Did that affect you at a young age? Yeah, of course it affected me because obviously when he did go, I started committing crime. I started shoplifting. I started doing petty thefts and things like that.  So of course it did, but that's not all his fault. Do you know what I mean? It was not all his fault. My mum done what she can for me. Yeah. Do you think you would have reigned? I think it's very sensible as well even when you're probably active. I speak to a lot of people as well who know you and you're very well respected. But you always had a bread head on. You always wanted to make money. Do you think if your dad was there you would have went down another path earlier on? My dad, yeah. My dad is a multimillionaire. You know what I mean? I just said it straight. Like he's been a grafter. He's done well for himself. And I've got that. I've got my dad's sort of genes. I've got my dad's genes from, I don't have to make money from school. I used to sell sweets. I used to have shubs on parties when I was young. Do you know what I mean? And everyone used to come and pay two pounds to get in. So I've always had that business mind. But I think I went down the route of like then it was like selling drugs, robbery, and I did like have patience and that just do things right. Do things the correct way. Try to fit in a bit because you never had the father figure there. You felt you needed a brotherhood. We tend to see that. A lot of people form a gang because they feel love. They feel wanted. So they're willing to do anything just to be part of that gang. Definitely. What was the first time you ever got in trouble? I think the first time I got in trouble I think it was criminal damage. Yeah. Smashing a window. Local. Smashing the window. Yeah, man. Got caution by the police. What did your mum say? Yeah, I got beaten. Jamaican household. There's no... You're getting beaten. Give me. I got beaten. Yeah, man. Is that where the kingdom started and escalated for you? Kind of started from there. Escalade shoplifting. Do you know what I mean? From shoplifting to robbery, from robbery to selling drugs, from selling drugs to carrying a bladed article. Do you know what I mean? From carrying a bladed article to robbery. Like, do you know what I mean? Going to prison, then getting arrested for murder. Like, loads of things came and things happened. And sometimes when your name's always popping up, a lot of the things that you haven't done, you still get blamed for anyway. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's because I love this stuff.  But it's all part and parcel of it. We're mourning and complaining when we get done for something we didn't do, but yet, we get away with so much as well. So it kind of always balances itself out. It definitely does. When was your first sentence? My first sentence was 2007. So 2007. About 10 years ago. Yeah, that was my first prison sentence and that was for conspiracy to rob a security box. So, yeah. How long did you get? Four years due to. How was that when your mum visits you when it's your first sentence? Yeah, it was horrible, wasn't it? And I'll be honest with you, the age that I was at, I just knew I was going to prison. So it was like, how as dumb as it sounds, it was like, yeah, when am I going in prison? I can't wait to go to prison. That was that age, do you know what I mean? And then when I was in prison, it was like, wow, I'm in prison. Like shit's rolling out. Do you know what I mean? Mum coming to see you, man. Obviously I broke her heart because I'm my only son. So she's been there for me through freaking thin. Yeah, that's the only thing because one man leaves and then it's our son leaves, basically. And it's hard for him, but even that there, you're saying that you wanted to go to prison. You feel as if you're earning stripes. It's so dirty thinking, mate. It's crazy. We think that cause trouble, cause harm because it tries to get his respect for people.  How did you do your first sentence? Was it YOs? Young offenders? Yeah, it was YOs, but my first sentence was a bit tough because I went to a YOs, soon I went to the YOs.     It was everything I was showing the soul of a drug addict.  I was like, oh my God. Like, what am I doing? I need to get out.  Nine months. So after nine months, doing the same thing came out, then obviously went to prison for selling drugs. So like this time was like, but where we had so much gang issues and so much issues with the rival gang, it was like bear lots of intelligence.  Did you just see that cycle coming? Did you just accept that life at that age?  So I just accepted it. And when I was out at my life, I was living my life on the edge, you know what I mean? We was living the way how we was living. It's not normal when we think back and we laugh. I talk to my friends, we laugh about it. Like, you remember when we done this? You remember when that happened? But like looking now is like, wow.  What were you doing then? Armed robberies, security corps vans, cash machines? Yeah, security. We was known for that. We were known for robbing trays, security corps vans. Do you know what I mean? And we weren't really shot us. We weren't really, we didn't really sell drugs like that, but we did, but we, but it was more armed robberies and that. When did you get done for an armed robbery? 2007. I got four years due to, so I've done two years, come out 2009, then I was out for nine months. And then what was that sentence? I was doing drugs. So I got down for possession with intent to supply.   And then my last one was robbery and drugs. Do you get double figures? Yeah, I got 11 years. So I got 10 years for the drugs. And then obviously they had to give me consent, but they couldn't slam me with big years because it's not in the public interest. So they gave me six months consent for the robbery. So it made it 11 years. So I ended up doing five years, seven months. What are you thinking then when you get, you're getting double figures? Obviously my daughter's just being born. My daughter's got sickle cell. Enough's enough that this is it now. I can't keep on falling into the same trap going back to prison, going in and out of prison and breaking my mom's heart. You know what I mean? And I'm just in and out of prison.  So I just felt like I was just in a mad cycle that I couldn't get out. And every single time I was getting more and more and more years, but I'm just getting big years. So when it came, I went to prison 2012 or 2013, January.  So it was like crazy years.  Mental health? Yeah, yeah. What's sickle cell?   And it's like, my daughter could have, she could have a fee for a cold and it could affect her. She could have genomic crisis. She has to get blood transfusions every three weeks. They said to her at five, she could get a stroke. So she had to have her blood transfusions every three weeks. How is that then when you're getting near enough of life sentence and then your daughter's born, she's got that rare disease. Is it rare disease? Yeah. And then you're not, you can't really be there.  We don't care about the damage we've caused back in the day. We only think about the people that we're really behind, but we cause all the pain. It's conflict as well that we cause. But when you're doing that sentence, how hard is that for you then to say what? It's crazy hard. And obviously I have to give my daughter's mum all props. Like she's an amazing mum at what she's done that and how what she's done just to raise such a beautiful girl. And do you know what I mean? She's a strong girl. So we thank God that nothing serious has happened, you know what I mean? And blood transfusion is working. But yeah, man, that's when enough is enough for me and it's time to fix up. How did you get through your sentence? Was it just try to change the main set? Try to break all tablets and? Yeah, because like obviously growing up in Fulton Heath, I was like one of the main brothers from my ends that would make sure my ends, my people are good. So you know what that comes with. So in prison, some of my sentences, I used to always fight. I've been in the block for three months down the block straight. You know what I mean? Getting blamed for this and that. So my law sentence, I became like a gang's payment and I was trying to like just mediate and trying to keep calm in the jail and just trying to just work my ticket to open jail. How did you do that? Did you seem to try to change in prison? Did you ever feel you were getting more tested? No, I'm not in prison because I would have smacked my nut. But at the same time is that people respect you for like how you were. They might think, maybe you're in the prison. So everyone's trying to work their own angle or ticket. But at the same time is that people respect you because they know you from that area or they know you used to, do you know what I mean? So they don't, when you're a household name, you're not a victim. Do you know what I mean? So there was no, I had no issues. There were no issues. Obviously there was facts and that, but there was, my prison sentence was lovely. Yeah. How many prisons were you in in that 10 stretch? In the 10 stretch, I think I went to like five different prisons. Was that for the category? Yeah. So B, B cat, local, B, yeah. C, C.  Yeah. Like literally, like, and then obviously going to open jail, it taught me just how to upsell, how to talk to customers. They gave me a chance. I was a manager in a Timpsons branch, key cutting shoe repairs. And I had to, and no one had to go back to the prison to sleep in the prison and wake up in the morning to go to work and then to receive my paycheck. And do you know what I mean? Just to know that every month from receiving a paycheck, it felt good. How was that for a bad man to be robbing banks to be selling drugs? To then be working in Timpsons for a minimum wage getting told what to do? How was that right at the start? Not really knowing that side of things, how it works, how it functions and working basically for a living, an honest living. Yeah, I got a second chance. I was grateful. Timpsons, what they're doing with inmates, amazing. Do you know what I mean? Amazing James Timpsons, amazing what they're doing and to even receive that paycheck and to understand it and to value my money was like, do you know what I mean? It humbled me. Because I used to do a lot of shoplifting as well and I still get into shops and I think, man, I could steal that. What was it like in Timpsons when money and that is coming in? Was there ever any temptation? Because I get temptation so many times but I don't act on it.  It's always in the back of my mind but for yourself coming through and trying to change and getting a job and working with money and I'd imagine secure money would be coming in. The secure call butts. I was a manager in my own shop. So it was just me. I'm in jail for robbing the secure call butts. The secure call butts used to come to my shop. Used to open up the box. I used to do the paperwork. I used to put the money in the box. They used to close it and that's it. And you don't even know that I'm in prison for robbing that. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, for me, it's like, wow, look how far that I've come. With me, I just believe in karma. Like I used to rob people. Do you know what I mean? I used to skank people.  I used to kidnap people. And that's not by any means. Man's not here to glorify.  Do you know what I mean? And just bad karma came on it. Bad karma. Prison, prison. Something bad happened. Health. Do you know what I mean? So I was like, for me, even now, you always have to treat people straight. Always have to do things with a clean heart and just leave it to God. If someone does you dirty, leave it to God because I just believe that that karma is real. Yeah.   And I don't know if that's tests from God. Tests, bro. Every day is tests. For me, it's every day is tests. Remember being in prison, you're in prison, and then you're not used to the outside world, coming out of the outside world, and then the projects that you're working on, people are noticing, you're getting a following quickly, and then on the top, you have to deal with it in its roles.  That's how that, but I will never do that in real life, but this is how the person that was me, so every single day, I have to rethink things and look at things and look at myself in the mirror and be like, you can't take it in that serious. But then you work on projects, you have the wicked and bad brand, or I have an artist, and they're doing well, and then you have people whispering in people's ears, and then all of a sudden, that's what I said to you off the camera, I've been out for four years, I had not one argument, but more people now want to kill me now that I'm successful than I was on the roads, and I have to scratch my head and be like, this person is not talking to me, or this person is talking to me, or this person, but why? What is it? Why are you upset with me? Because I'm just doing well.   I've seen the weakest men snap and beat the biggest, and I've seen the biggest break, and it's just a mad society, but everybody's brain is different. People can't see changes, a good thing from others, people can't go, let's bring this man up, let's raise people up when they're doing well.  Why can't I do what they do? Why can't I raise the bar? Why can't I provide for my family a legit living? Everybody's got that in them to make goodness, everybody's got them in it to make change, everybody's got it in them to make legit money, but they can't, because everybody try and take these, they show up. No, 100%.  Black, no one don't want to see each other do well, do you know what I mean? We have blog pages that are predominantly black-owned, and they're black-owned, and all they want to do is post triggering stuff, and then man's own black people, and they're crashing, man, do you know what I mean? And this is what man has to go through, and then down the line, they'll be like, oh, support a black business, but for me, it's to support any business, you get me? Because it's not, these are the same people, they don't even, they might love you for 60 seconds, but they hate you for a year, you know what I mean? And it's just one of them ones, but you just have to keep on going. And for me, as long as I'm inspiring the youth, and that's what I'm there for, I'm not there for no grown-ups, I'm there for the youth, I'm trying to let them tell them, listen, if you're on the roads, trust me, when you go jail for long, no one's not really there for you.  So just change your life around, and just try to work on other things to make them happy, and change your crowd of friends. So even you were in Thamesons, how did your friends treat you? They're always fine, you know what I mean? When I was in Thamesons, I always big up, I always big up Crepton Conan, I'll be big up Weez, I'll be big up, these people, they helped me a lot, I got to see a lot of the world, that when Crepton Conan's touring, the guy in festivals, when I'm out on homelys, I'm going, I'm experiencing it, and my friends, they didn't look at me no different, and in Thamesons, I was working on other projects, I was working on things, I was working on, opening up my own events company, which I did from prison, and Crepton helped me, and I bought a lot of artists, that was popular then.  How did your relationship start with them? They're my bridgeans, they're the ones from the Rose, like Conan's been jailed, that was my soul mate. Yeah, he's proper, isn't he? Yeah, he's proper, I've spoke with a few people, people don't know, I don't know if people know, but he's back in the day, he was proper then. Yeah, come on, to get me, but they don't know that, they just think he's a music done, but little that he know, you get me, but you understand, most of the people that was ruthless, or was on the streets, all of us are respectful people, we ain't got nothing to prove, we don't have to go and let were someone on the internet, that's not, we're not, we're just here trying to just cut you, create energy drinks, do you know what I mean, trying to be successful, because we don't want that life, we don't want no issues with no one. Yeah, because they give you a shout out at the mobiles? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How was that feeling? That was a mad feeling, the whole jail, you get me banged the door. Yeah, you've only jailed when you've done that, yeah, yeah. And that was a mad feeling, do you know what I mean? That was a mad feeling, just to see what they've done, and just to see that the help that they've given man, do you know what I mean, obviously man's had to graft, get me, it's not easy just to find an artist, or man's had to do, but it's added value, do you know what I mean, man's very grateful for the help.  Yeah, I was gassed, I was buzzing, I was like, bros, remembered man, you let me, all the way down here, they remembered man, so yeah. And fair play for doing that, because a lot of people would have give shout out to anybody in prison, they'd be too concerned about that, their brand. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's good, but so when you got out, Timson's, what strategies then did you put into place, because you've only been out what four years? Four years, I've been out.  Yeah, it's unbelievable, bro. Thank you, my bro.  Yeah. Do you know what, obviously I got into music management from coming out of Timson's and we created a brand of play dirty parties me and Crepton Conan. So I just learning the ropes, you know what I mean, like even when you're trying to reach out to producers or people from the labels or people from the industry and they're blanking you, just learning how to take rejection in the sense of like, okay, I'm not going to give up. I'm going to go down this avenue. I'm going to go down this avenue. And the fact that we created something so special with the artists that I was managing, dig that. Obviously I'm the first manager to chart a drill song Top 20. And when I came into the game, they said that drill will never chart. Do you know what I mean? And we've opened up doors for artists now to always be in the charts for artists managers to come through and have all and have something to talk about and voice their opinion and grow the culture. Do you know what I mean? And I'm very grateful to even, do you know what I mean? Share that with that artist and with the people that was on the remix, Crepton Conan, K-Trap. And these are all my close people then. Yeah, I know you spoke about it before but when you had digged that, what age was it? 18, 19? Yeah, 18. Only a kid, man.  Do you know what I mean? I know there's been a fallout but at the time, you've got somebody that's popping, you've got somebody that's selling records and you kind of put the drill seeing kind of on the map, man. It's unbelievable and to do that independent and take something out of the charts very first single. Very first. And that was the team that you got. Man's got a big up. At the time they were called Caroline, the part of Universal, there was just a distribution. Do you know what I mean? And listen, they said to us drill will never chart. This is what labels were saying. And we changed the odds and from that, it opened up the door. Do you know what I mean? It opened up the door and look at drill now. So do you become a threat then? Somebody that's been independent instead of, you know yourself, managers and big labels take people on. The kids would sign, even they shout about. I'm a threat now. Yeah. But I'm a threat now but I got a lot of relationships in the record labels with the presidents and the A&Rs. Even though I don't do business with them, but I have my own infrastructure on three studios. Do you know what I mean? I have Grammy nominated producers right now. That's nominated for Dolce & Caps album. Do you know what I mean? They're nominated in a Grammy. That's not happening from no label. No label. That's not happening from a label. That's from us, from our infrastructure, from beans and lay. We own, do you know what I mean? That's the studios and the producers that we have, we still, we know how to develop. So when DIGDAC song popped, what happened after that? DIGDAC, obviously Air Force connected. It was doing 100,000 views every single day. Bear in mind, I had no idea what YouTube ads was. So we just had 100,000, over 100,000 organic views coming in for about four months every day. I kid you not. And from that it was just, the aim was to, okay, cool. We knew we needed to connect another two, three times and then he's there. He's an artist because obviously you connect once and then if you don't connect again and you keep on missing, sometimes your hype goes down. So it was just developing DIGDAC as an artist. Do you know what I mean? Obviously, DIGDAC signed a few deals, a few single deals and just knowing how to go into the labels, build up connection with the labels and yeah, just building DIGDAC as an artist. Do you know what I mean? I'm dropping his project. How much did you spend? How much time did you spend with him? To build them up? So this is, his third song he blew up. Do you know what I mean? And within a year he was blown. Within six months, to now months, DIGDAC was the hottest draw artist in the game. Do you know what I mean? And then the piece of work that obviously DIGDAC H created the eight mile, we've done a video remake of the eight mile film and the creativity. And that's what made things stand out of the box. Do you know what I mean? With me behind him, with me, do you know what I mean? And him progressing. And there was no contract, nothing signed? No, there was no nothing signed. Do you know what? On the streets, and I learned the hard way now, I can teach people, this is a contract, this is what you need to do, boom, boom, boom. But there was, there was really, why would I do a contract?   Do you know what I mean? How was that for you when it kind of went a different way and you kind of get put to the side? Obviously, obviously it was, mine was hurt, do you know what I mean? But I just think back, I used to thank people, I used to do scumbag stuff when I was a kid. Do you know what I mean? So, I wish my man all the best, there's no animosity there. Do you know what I mean? So, but you just have to, you learn in it, you learn, you get stronger, you get kicked down. A lot of people was happy that happens, do you know what I mean? Because you've got to put it this way, you've got, you've got a dual artist, you've got someone that's come from the roads. People have been trying to do what man's been trying to do for tens of years and man's just come once later, boom, top 20. Do you know what I mean? We've got platinum, silver, gold, platinum. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah. But again, it's a bit of loyalty to the man who's put the steps there for that.  No matter who, no matter how many apologies you get, people know right from wrong. Wait a minute, he's built me up, he's put money into me, he's invested in me. I'm going to give him it back. There's not many, as you've learned, the hardware. I've been learning the hardware. Do you know what I mean? I've been learning the hardware and do you know what is... Yeah. How much did you lose? 100K over 100K. Do you know what I mean? I lost over 100K but do you know what I mean? I carried on working and you could say I've made 10 times that much. You get me with the wicking and bad brand. So it's fine. Do you see a bit of karma coming back from all the robberies you've done stealing from people to then? Do you know what?  See, that's why I give so much back. You get me? I do a lot of charity work. I give so much back because I always feel that and I know I have a lot of the younger generation that watch me so I always have to make sure that I represent them. Do you know what I mean? So my thing is just to keep and give them back and get me karma's real. So you just have to charge it to the game when things like that happen. You get me? It's just like, okay, cool. You can understand the kid's work and look out for himself as well but you can't not forget the people who's who bulge up because there's not many people do that. There's not many people who's got your back and see vision and see talent because the majority of people don't believe in themselves anyway. So we're planting those seeds to say you're good enough you can make it. I believe in them. Eventually, it's like affirmations.  You eventually start believing it.  I would think that he's actually the problem but then I think, well, all these people are saying that have you had someone to invest 50K into you? Have you have have you had someone that will come and say I'll invest 100K in you? No one. Have you paid have you paid wages of 20K? Do you know what I mean? And this is a reality and when you start thinking, actually, I haven't had no one to invest this money in me. So, but it's so easy for someone to say X, Y and Z. Yeah. It's so easy for people to jump on it now. People don't realise where they were at the start. Zero followers, zero money, zero clout, nothing. And everything makes sense then. Yeah. Everything makes sense. I can go to you and say, listen, I've got my money. I've got no money and I have to brand you. I'm going to put my money into you but me, you're going to go 50-50 and then everything's fine. And then when when everyone blows up now, oh my God, this guy groomed this person. You've done this. You've done that. What? He was nobody. Everything makes sense now. Yeah. Even when I work with people and I say to certain people, now I'm saying, bro, look, look at us here. I know, I'm a businessman. I say, look at us here. We've got a plan in it and we're not where we are right now, and everything sounds good. The deal sounds good. Everything sounds good. So when you blow up now, what? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But that's part and parcel of that.  Everybody thinks it's their name. It's created that. And then people start getting people, people start getting in people's ear. But they see the people that get in people's ear. That's going to pop down the person. Do you know what I mean? Because they start listening and then you start doing things and then you start falling off. You start falling off and then a year, two years down the line, it's like, why do they even do that? Yeah. I shouldn't have done that to my man. You'll see that. That's what I've learned. Just step back. Yeah. And if they're good, they're good at life. But if not, you'll see them, they'll slip after six months a year. Then they're fizzled out. The scary thing is if you start building someone up, their credibility is strong. So when they start turning on you, it's not just one comment, two comments.  Comments. So you can't reply back because you just need to absorb it. Absorb it. Yeah. Then after a week or two, it fizzles out.  And then you do get immune to that. Yeah. You get immune to that. You get so used to that ship. You get a platform to create your own ship. And it's up down to you where you go from it. Some of these podcasts are hitting millions of views, but sometimes people think you owe them something. I'll be honest with you, though, with both of the people that man worked with, they're more my family. So you see when your heart done by it and things like that happen, it affects you in a different way. Sometimes you can, I can struggle off from X, but this has happened so it can affect you in a different way. And think, wow, man, they didn't need to do that or why did man do that? Then you start looking yourself in the mirror and be like, and for me, I'm more like, I'm always like, generous. I'm always showing love and I'll start being like, this is what it is. Yeah. So cut deeper, do you think? Because it was people so close to you. Yeah. Cut deeper, man. I'm too occasioned. I've just, I've just come back to social media now. Do you know what I mean? It's important to have a social media break because you can start doing that. Do you know what I mean? I wake up at 4.30 every single morning since certain things happen, like my PTSD is through the roof. Do you know what I mean? I woke up at 4.30 every single morning. Yeah, we mean you weren't meeting today at 5 a.m. At 5 a.m. I was up as well. I'm up. I'm ready. And I can go sleep earlier, but I'm up and people don't believe why I'm up so late, but I've got my own issues that I'm trying to deal with. Do you know what I mean? I've got my own mental issues, but people, they would love to see man down. You get me? That's the thing, it keeps me going because there's so many people waiting in the sideline waiting for me to take a drink or take another line of gear or do something stupid. I've got my family to support. Look how well, I'm not just bumming myself up, but I've done so well the last four years that I'm scared to stop. I don't want to take the six-week break of the three month because I think what if I fizzle out? I know I won't because I've bought a platform now I can take a rest, and you can't stop and I started looking at business and it's like even these four years people say, yeah, you've done amazing, but I've been working at 50%. I haven't even been trying properly. Now, this year, I'm trying properly. I'm looking into the mirror and be like, okay, I need to do this, I need to do this. Even like with the arms fight, my thing was like I was trying to sell a fight and I know what people don't like. You get me? Obviously, we've done a video and you get me? People don't like that. Naturally, do you know what I mean? They will just not like you because of that.  I'm trying to sell a fight. Do you know what I mean? And I'm just trying to build a platform for more, this will change more and more people's lives. Do you know what I mean? So now that I'm happy that I can say I'm just going to be a promoter, no more fighting for me. People will see that miles, they will see the bounce and play dirty. Do you know what I mean? They will see that nice person that's just trying to shift culture, trying to make it grow. Yeah, but the people who do know you, your family and your true friends, your day ones, they know who you are anyway. But obviously, remember your height, your popularity has grown daily as well. Yeah.  That's a lot. So people are always going to judge. The majority of people in life are struggling. Yeah. So if you're drunk you're more powerful than this and people are going to get envious. Yeah, I understand. But from anybody that it knows, it just knows that selling a fight is to create awareness and people talk, it's business, it's still creating more income. Yeah. But if you learn and you grow, just do what's right for you. You don't need advice from anybody because what you're doing, there's not many people from the streets are doing.  That's why I have a lot of respect for what you're achieving, bro. That's why when people watch this as well, people see a different side from people as well. Yeah. People may just watch that video and think and turn off. Yeah. And then when they see interviews like this morning and a deeper and more job work, man. Thank you. But you know, it's always someone that's not from my culture like that, that old big man up. Do you know what I mean? I remember even yesterday one of my friends busy was like, bro, what you've done and what you've achieved is amazing and no one for the culture, no one don't really big you up but I just let my actions do the talking because who are you on a Monday morning? I know who I am on a Monday morning. I know what I have to do. I'm not here for show. I'm not here to waste time. I know. I know my brain. My brain is the 1%. I'm creative. Do you know what I mean? I'm a genius. I'm a genius. I know what to do. I know how to develop for artists. I know how to develop fighters. I know how to sell a brand and how to do anything. No one can stop me. I might not be good at reading and writing, but I'm amazing. I know what to do. It's a lonely journey, though, brother, isn't it? Yes, bro.  It's lonely, bro. Because you question it, like you say, I was up at half four today and I'm thinking, like, what are you doing? I couldn't be asked either. It's like I have to force it as well. And then once I'm up and showered and I go, right, OK, let's take on a day. What if you get planned? OK, you've got another 200 miles, you get that and you've got another 200 miles after that. And I'm doing this myself, bro. I've got my editor, Steph, but it's a lonely journey to create something to feed the family like. No, of course.  Do you know what I mean to say? Do you know what we're all done and it picks you up up because you've got the editor. But do you know what we do, James? You're yourself. You're amazing. I'm amazing. And I see there's a gap that I can work with you in here and there's a gap that you can work with me. We help each other. Are we in person? That's it, bro. And we help each other and that's what we do to grow. You know what I mean?  Like, I know I've heard you've spoken about your story. Do you know what I mean? And I'm proud of you. Do you know what I mean? And for me to even get behind that just to make sure that you're still on the street. Do you know what I mean?  That's what it's all about. And everything's business and opening doors and you don't know which round the corner. You don't know who's watching these interviews. That opens door. Maybe an artist is saying, do you know what? I need somebody to back me like this man right here.  Yeah, bro. I don't trust no one. No, that's a sad place to be in. You said that I need an artist or I don't invest in people like that no more. I invest in the business. What makes sense for the business? What makes sense for Wiccan and Bad? What makes sense for Bounce? Or artists? I don't trust anyone. So no artist can be like, oh, put no time. I haven't got time to put time in individual artists. Do you know what I mean? Obviously, I'm launching my Bounce on Music Club and it's offering a service. I'm mentoring people. This is my service. This is my rates and this is what I do. But when it comes to, oh, I'm good at music. I don't care how talented you are. I'm not putting my effort into that. And I know, I know I can make you blow. I know this. I know, but I'm just focusing on my business because you see the business? That's your business. This is what's going to be valued at 100 mil. Do you know what I mean? Wiccan and Bad, that's what's, and you put your energy into that and you focus on that. Is that going to slink me? Is that going to run off with anything? No, could I own it? Yeah, the only person that can help you is you. So see when you were doing that, see when you had that, and then obviously now you're valuing you.  Putting a price on your time because you've lost now hundreds of thousands of people. You're putting prices in your time and effort and other people. But if you never done that either, you wouldn't be learning and growing as fast as you are. No, of course.  Everyone's in better positions. We're all in amazing positions. So you learn in it and you just come back stronger and you have to have time to think and reflect and think, okay, where are we going wrong? Okay, I'm going to work more on this. There's a gap in the market here. And this is the lane that I'm going to go. This is my brand. So when you dig that left, was there ever a heads up to say, look, I'm going my separate ways? Or was it just done behind your back? No, it was just done. It was just done, you know what I mean? Through what's that message and that's it. Do you know what I mean? It was done. And that was that? How long did it take you to bounce back from that? Six months.  Yeah, six months. Because that's changing your life because people don't understand as well.  That is where it is now. But you changed your life for your daughter. That money can go to your daughter. So that's where they end being, do you know what?  And that's the folks that you think in it and then you have to look at yourself.  But now you know your backstory.  Do you know what I mean? It's helping your daughter out. So then you've got these thoughts and then what happens is, sometime it's a loss that that can then put you back in the streets. And can you imagine doing a live sentence just now? Yeah.  And then that's how fast it goes. That's how fast. And that's what you don't want to happen. And I'll tell you from now, bro, I've grown up in prison. I can do 10 years again in prison now and just be calm. Do you know what I mean? And I don't want that to happen. But I've grown up. My mind is different. I've been in the block three months straight with just a mattress, nothing. And these are the things that I always battle with all day and be like, the old school bounce can't come out. Do you know what I mean? Just to stay around practicing brothers, practicing Muslims, carry on praying. Do you know what I mean? Be around good people because I'm a good person and just try to block out anyone that's trying to bring you to that space. So I'm proud of myself that I did it, retaliate in certain ways and I've done things the right way and I took my anger out in the podcast. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And yeah, man. Like, listen, I live in London. Do you know what I mean? I walked down the streets. I don't hide from no one. Lacomann, how did that relationship come about? My friend Smoltz is in prison. So Lacomann is a dwarf? Yeah, Lacomann is a dwarf. And he was in and out of prison? Yeah, in and out of prison. But my friend Smoltz met him in prison. He said, oh, look, I've got someone here that I reckon you'll do well with. Do you know what I mean? And then the whole story, me and him building him up, getting him on the front of the sun, getting Smoltz to record videos. Do you know what I mean? Oh, bear in mind, he had his own videos out. Do you know what I mean? That was going viral. But just me adding to it, making fake Instagram pages, fake Instagram pages going viral. Do you know what I mean? If it was so easy, anyone would have come with that idea. Do you know what I mean? No one did apart from myself. Everything's always easy. Everything's always easy. I always got invited. I was big anyway. But no one did come with that simple. There was a brotherhood with you. Because I've watched his videos and you've got to say he has a character and see potential to be something. But I always have love for Lacomann. Do you know what I mean? That's man's brother, man. He's got, he's got me. I wish him all the best.  But it's now time to make your back colder towards it and not take as many risks. Not take too much risks with it.  But do you know what? Like I said, it's progression in it. Everyone's in good positions. You got me to change more lives. So it's all good, man. So you had the fight between you and Arm. Shout out to Armz. I've got a lot of time for Armz. I like him. Armz, man. Absolute machine. So you had the dwarf fights as well. Like they're kind of blew up and everybody watching that.  No one didn't believe. You see, when I invested that money, no one didn't believe in two dwarves fighting. I was promised you that. But when I saw the production and how my market did, everyone believed it. No one didn't think that man could pull it off, but man pulled it off. You know what I mean? So man created the history and even getting messages from like the dwarf communities. Just like, look, like, you're the only one that's kind of created a lane for us and you're not taking us for clowns.  You're actually trying to create something for us to look like serious people and create a lane. You know what I mean? So that there touched me. So as long as they see that and they know what my intentions was with that, that's all that matters. Liko Man looks as if he can scrap. He looks as if he could bang out a fucking, he could bang out a fucking, he'd probably bang out me through that lane. So fair play almost. Because did you see a lot of sensitivity with him? Did you see a lot of his stuff as maybe a knack because he obviously had to go through? He's just naturally a star, man. He's born a star. He's born a star. He's naturally a star. Do you know what I mean? You're around him. He's naturally a star. What's it like when the cameras are off? Yeah, he's just, he's blessed. Do you know what I mean? He knows how to chill. He's blessed to me.  He belongs in America, man. He goes to America. They'll love him. I've never seen him come. Every time when I done the press conference and interviews, he was always just causing it.  Just absolutely causing it. So when that broke down as well. Yeah, yeah, that broke down.  Or did you choose that as fuel again to then try and kick on? No, I like, these people never free me, man. But it's just like, remember, before the social media, me and Luka Man stopped working, like, a year, just over a year. Do you know what I mean? So it wasn't nothing new, but he was still fighting on the show. I was still close with his cousin, Super. So the relationship's still there. But I understand obviously, he had a fight that he needed to promote. So it made sense. He jumped on the podcast. And then it was like the way that plus four four kind of edited the podcast. It made it seem that clip that went viral. It was like, and then the fact, the man's like, oh man takes 50%. There's no 50% of nothing. He's never, he's never been paid a wage. And I've talked 50% off. You know what I mean? All I've done is invested in him. His biggest wage has been from Wicked and Bad. And then the fact that people that are so uneducated when it comes to fights what people get paid. And even like, I was talking to Aaron from Jordan's show and he's like, about like, I fought at Bellator. I had 2.5 million followers and they paid me 12 and a half K. That's what they, that's what they paid me for my fight. That's not, that's, and I fought at Bellator.  And it's like, that's not like, hold on. I put on, put a risk on with my own money. And I've invested X with investors and both fighters received 20% of both of profit. So if it streamed more, you would have got paid more, but you just got paid what was in the contract. Do you know what I mean? And then the second fight, you get paid 15, 1500 pound more and that's a deal. So the eight and a half is not a deal. My friends said that you for this me, the 10 K that you're new, like your manager got, it's a deal. You're not complaining about that. Do you know what I mean? When you get contracts, contracts, you're meant to send to lawyers to go for it. Everything. There's no record labels will send you a proposal and you just sign it on the spot. It's impossible. Do you know what I mean? And that's what happens. And to protect, look, a man now owns his trademark. He owns, he's going to own his trademark anyway. He's insta page. I own these insta page from when he came out, handed it over to him from the get go. Do you know what I mean? So all these points, there wasn't that big, big points. Do you know what I mean?  Do you know what I mean? So, so that whole, oh, my man, my man's took 50% of look man. I've took 50% of nothing. When you go to prison, are you becoming an internet sensation from prison? Believe it or not, guys, Nike or Bihu or any of these people don't want to work with you because they can't associate the brand for someone who's just come out of prison.  They don't look for their brands, you know what I mean? And people don't understand it. They don't look at the business side of things.  Clip went out and you said he's owned his name and owned his Instagram and took all his money and I got a lot of people back to me, a lot of business people back to me and I started realizing the people that are talking, they don't actually, they don't even know business. They don't even know that when they watch certain boxes on TV that they get paid between 500 and a thousand per round. They don't even know that. Do you know what I mean? They just look at boxes on the TV and think that they're getting paid crazy money. So everything that I've done has been above board, do you know what I mean? So, but they're not understanding it's like, okay, cool. I'm getting trolled by a full in-year-old. Do you know what I mean? That's a fan of little man or that is, that don't like man because, do you know what I mean? Or the man's black community. Do you know what I mean? Because, okay, you've seen me grow. You've seen me on your level. Everyone supports you. You see man climbing up but then all of a sudden we don't like this person. Look what they're doing to money made. Get me. Anyone can say that anyone, anyone, I can say this now. We all got the same 24 hours. What are they doing to her? I've said that many things. You know what I'm trying to say? So it's just pick and choose. I think that's sad that I understand exactly what the girls saying that everybody has got the same 24 hours and now I know millionaires who've lost everything. I genuinely know homeless men who've become millionaires that people get different starts. We get it, but you have got the same time to then go and make changes.  I knew. I couldn't understand it. It's like, do you know what I mean? So it's like for me, but it just makes man, you just, then you know, isn't it? You just know this is, it just happens, isn't it?  My thing, 2022, I just learned to like just, I don't need to, I don't need to respond to everything. Just whatever, man. Whatever. Whatever. It's whatever. Yeah, it's like whatever.   Nobody ever does? No one ever does. No one ever does. You get me? I know I walked past loads of loads of trolls and they've just kept quiet. So, but my thing is, my intentions is pure in it and everything that I do, I do it from the heart. You know what I mean? I do it for the will of, I do it for the will of God. I do it from the heart. So, from when you, when you do that, you can't miss.  And no one can't stop that. They'll just keep on blessing you.  You've only been out for four years. Yeah. You're still learning yourself. I'm still learning.   They don't care.    You know, as soon as they put it on them, their arses claps like, this is just life. This is, but social media as much as it bulges up, we can also break people. No. Because getting negative messages, it's like reading a book.  You bump people. And that's how you probably took the break because you're thinking, wait a minute, I've had these two big relationships break down. Is it me?  But it's not even just that. There was loads of, this year was just like a tough year for me. Going back and forth with people in it last year. The arms fight, you know what I mean? Dealing with the arms fight, the trolls of that. That was fine. Because it's bang up, because it's like, I know why I've done it just to build a platform. You get me? I know why I've done it. I've built a platform. I've got a platform now for other fighters. And then just keeping having to, even with other stuff, you get me? It's like, there was like a scandal that went on with some scam. And it's like, in the newspaper, they had all the celebrities, the top celebrities. You get me? And then on the streets, on the block pages, they were playing with me. And you could just see it.  This is what man's culture is doing. You know what I mean? But man's not going to give up. I'm going to show, I'm going to keep on showing, I'm going to keep on doing amazing stuff. And you're going to see, you know what I mean? You're going to see. And the fact that I don't ask, I don't ask no one for nothing. Just create content and just put it out. That's all. As man of a content creators, we just try to create a living. We try to create platforms.  Like if they can do it, if they can make changes, if they can create platforms, like even this podcast, because it's viewed, we're nearly a hundred million views. Like, and I'm only beginning. I've not even touched America yet.  And then the majority of people watch your stuff and go prick. And then you'll get, the people will see inspiration and go, you know what, if he can do it, I can do it. Not just platforms or managers or creating brands or creating energy things, but anything can be created just for here. It's your actions. It's your actions that then you want to jump on it.   But how did the fight between you and arms come about? The fight of me and arms came about of lookal man, people poison lookal man and he left the brand. He don't want nothing to do with the weekend and bad brand. So we didn't have no fight. I had a platform. Me and my business partners like, bro, we've got a platform. We have no fight. And I'm like, look, I don't want to fight, but the only way I know that would go crazy if I could have arms or if I have arms in the meeting or do you know what I mean? So I asked him about it and he wasn't really on it. And then he fooled about it one time, he come to my gym and we spoke and I was like, look, just let me cool you out or just do some pads. I'm just bait the post come under the post and just create some hype around it. Do you know what I mean? And then obviously this is when we've done we've well done the contract, the contract signed and then we've created the hype and it's come out and people thought it was real and it sold. Do you know what I mean? It sold and obviously putting on a fight, putting on a fight, marketing everything you saw with that arms fight, putting on a fight and then training, mentally exhausted me. Having to be a promoter, a marketer and be a fighter exhausted me. Do you know what I mean? I didn't want to, like me going in the ring, I thought, yeah, like now I know how it feels to be in there, take my heart off to every athlete. You know what I mean? And people might say, oh, I wasn't too happy with my performance. You know what I mean? I was happy. I felt like I should have been more in shape. I should have been a bit more fitter. But I've got a platform. We created a platform and the message that we bought out was put down the knives. Do you know what I mean? Getting in the ring and fight. It's all right. Think that, bro.  Arms isn't a professional fighter. They put us next. Do you know what I mean? He's fought for 25 minutes. Professional.  He's been training his whole life. Like when I done my boxing event, I thought I was training hard eight rounds a free, 10 rounds a free. And then I only fought three rounds a two on main night. I blew after the first two minutes. Crazy. Because it's nervous energy. It's well, it's tension. It's just crowds. There's noise. Everything.   Your meme for that anyway. Forever. Your meme for everything. So it's like, yeah, people can laugh and joke, but we have a platform and moving forward, you're going to love me for this platform because of the stuff that I'm thinking of and the stuff that I'm starting, like the stuff that the doors that's going to open, like I'm doing, like a Wiccan and Bad Contender where you have two coaches, two assistant coaches, 10 fighters, two heavy, five heavyweights, five light heavyweights, one team, the others, two gyms, and creating challenges. And then at the end, they win a cash prize and they fight on the undercard of our main Wiccan and Bad fight that we're planning right now. It's just business, bro. And it's business. That's how the UFC made it. The UFC was like 30, 40 million dollars on debt until they done the, was it the contender? All the fighters. The ultimate fighter and that's what boomed that again. And they just build it up and that's what it's going to do. And with me, I'm one man. So I'm doing everything myself. My business partner is doing all the logistics, but I'm doing all the planning and I have to think about everything. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, man. We're building something great. We're building and I'm noticing I'm here. I'm seeing that, listen, these pro-bots do not get, they're promoters. They're not paying them proper money. So I'm building that platform where we're offering better, better, better money. So they can, they can get suspended, come fight on my platform. You'll see, you'll see this lineup that are released and you'll see the market and you'll see who will be behind you developing, you're making you big and that's what you need, PR. Well, you see Jake Paul calling out the UFC saying they don't pay enough wages. Like they're making millions each fight. Some of the fighters are on 15 grand. Same as boxers. I know boxers that fight for the British title. Remember they've got coaches to pay. They've got nutritionists. They've got their whole camp to pay. Some of them ain't even walking away with three, four grand in the fight for British titles. I know. And that's what they're actually getting paid. But then someone will come on Instagram and come on someone's page and like, you paid someone eight and a half grand or you paid someone 10 grand. And he's like, do you even know how much boxes get paid? What are you talking about? Yeah, I didn't realize it then because I told him people were much. Educate yourself.  A quarter. Some guy who created a podcast is getting paid more than them. 16 ounce gloves no one really getting a hut.   Create a brand and just move on it's just business. How long did you train for the arms feet?


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Hey Weirdos, Weird Darkness has been nominated for a podcast award in four categories this year – Storyteller Drama, Society and Culture, True Crime and the Coveted People's Choice category. You can vote for Weird Darkness in all four categories at the same time by visiting podcastawards.com. Once you sign up to vote, you'll find all four categories in the left-hand column – People's Choice at the very top and then Bottom left-hand column for the remaining three when you scroll down. While it's still on your mind right now, please go vote. Only you, my Weirdo family, can help Weird Darkness become an award-winning podcast this year. Go to podcastawards.com and vote for Weird Darkness in the Storyteller Drama category, the Society and Culture category, the True Crime category and the People's Choice category. And thank you, Weirdo family, for nominating and voting for Weird Darkness.