Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners thanks to all of you including Paul Boyer, Brad and Kevin Coming up on DTNS will Smith is back to tell us what parts he used when he built a new PC from scratch Plus Apple's plan to allow side loading on iOS And why the young folks these days may not be as tech savvy as you old-timers assume What happens with you This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday December 14th 2022 in Los Angeles on Tom Merritt and from studio redwood I'm Sarah Lane in Salt Lake City. I'm Scott Johnson And the show's producer Roger Chang joining us co-host of Brad and will made a tech pod will Smith Hey, Tom, thanks for having me. I assume you're the will not the Brad. I You know, we thought about it. We thought we might mix it up Yeah, I did go with the I am the will on the the bed. I made a tech pod and we didn't put will Smith So it's not confused anymore, right, right Sometimes I touch the touch the sometimes I have to touch the stove, but for the most part, yeah, I'm good Good yes, we will we will try to fend it fend them off a fast and furious by starting with the quick hits. Oh Wednesday Twitter announced it would shut down its newsletter platform at review early next year Twitter bought review in early 2021 and initially the company added review sign-up buttons to Twitter profiles Then rolled out a feature that allowed users to sign for review newsletters directly from tweets January 18th I have until January 18th to move off of review that I just move on To anyway while meta is pulling back on its connectivity efforts around the world Microsoft is filling the gap Microsoft announced a partnership with the satellite network operator via sat to expand its airband Initiative which works to expand internet access to rural areas Airband will use via sat's network to extend internet access to 10 million people around the world Including 5 million folks in countries on the continent of Africa airband will also provide seed investments for infrastructure projects in Africa as part of a wider goal to connect 250 million people globally by the end of 2025 Security researcher Brian Krebs reported that the user database for the US FBI's Infra guard program appeared for sale online on December 10th The program was designed to build information sharing partnerships between the FBI and private firms Including operators of critical infrastructure Krebs contacted the seller who said that they obtained access by creating a new infra guard account Posing as the CEO of a major US financial corporation The data set mostly reveals emails and phone numbers, but also allowed for direct messaging other infra guard members social US Commerce Department placed the Chinese chipmaker young C memory technologies or YMTC on its entity list Along with 30 other additional Chinese companies are a lot of folks already on that entity list Huawei being the most famous This would bar US firms from selling technology to YMTC without a license on October 7th The US placed YMTC on an unverified list of entities that it was unable to conduct end user checks on to make sure US Based technology wasn't being diverted for military use So it's an escalation of the list that they're on in somewhat related news Nikkei's deal Street Asia Reports that arm has determined it is not allowed to license its most advanced chip designs to China's Alibaba Alibaba, of course, it's like an alphabet except in China as search engines marketplaces all kinds of stuff And arm says due to export rules in the UK and US can't sell its advanced designs to Alibaba Apple released iOS 16.2 Mac OS Ventura 13.1 and watch OS 9.2 The iOS update adds Apple Music sing to the Apple Music app That's the one that lets you turn down vocals on supported tracks for a karaoke like experience Also allows hiding wallpaper and notifications with devices with an always-on display And the updates also add the free format digital canvas app to Macs and iOS devices Letting multiple people collaborate in real-time as well as advanced data protection for iCloud Which expands the data categories protected with end-to-end encryption if your phone can't run iOS 16 Apple pushed the security patches as part of iOS and iPad OS 15.7.2 updates if your device can run iOS 16 You'll need to update to iOS 16.2 to get those patches. Yep. That's what they've been doing lately All right, let's talk about the youths of the world DigiDays work life news highlighted a report from HP called hybrid work. Are we there yet in large part? It was it was about hybrid working but work life noted a couple findings in the report that indicated that younger workers appeared to maybe not be as tech-savvy or tech-confident at least As we thought they would be about all things tech in the way older workers assume Yeah, so HP surveyed 10,000 office workers in 10 markets around the world 20% of those Aged 18 through 29 said that they felt judged when experiencing technical issues compared to 4% of those Older than 40 also 25% of that 18 to 29 year old group said that they would avoid Participating in a median if they felt like their use of tech would disrupt it as in not working properly Compare that to 6% of those older than 40 HP group the findings under the head in tech shame tech shame yikes The conclusion that a lot of folks draw from this is that the tech skills people get from growing up with technology Are not necessarily the same ones needed in the workplace seems logical Making a tick-tock doesn't necessarily make it better making a PowerPoint or operating a zoom call Plus older folks can afford better equipment and better internet connections in work from home situations They you know that can give them a leg up as well Scott. Do you notice this with your own Gen Z kids? Yeah, so my son who's 22 now and just turned 22 this year He definitely shows signs of this I think part of it is he just showed up and it was all in fruition mode like he when he was eight or nine Minecraft just existed. He was a thing you could just jump into and have he didn't see all the steps It took to get to something like Minecraft nor did he see what it took to get to something like a small device in your pocket With a touchscreen he came up with that stuff and so in a lot of ways I think that he just didn't see the underpinning The way that we did we saw it from its inception and it's really kind of dirty implementation of the old days of either the internet or other Technologies and then we went from using our rotary phones all the way up till now And we remember every little stage of what it meant in that transition and I just don't think they have the The the background on it They just see it as what it is and it's the same way I see a lot of things like I look at a Broken furnace or something and I just go I don't know like who's gonna take care of this But my dad and he'd have had it done in five minutes. So I think there's a little bit of that going on and you know I don't think it's Detrimental in terms of like this is a real gonna be a huge issue. I think there's a lot of catch-up that can be done But I think some of us Xers and Jen Millennials and so on it could be a little nicer You know to these up-and-coming kids and just not assume that because they grew up a touchscreen Somehow they're gonna be little tech geniuses That'll help Well And so much of the conversation is like oh well, but the younger, you know, like you're talking about with your son You know in Minecraft It's like the younger kids just don't know a world where this didn't exist so they're just so much better at it and you know, there there is a Under the hood type of thing going on. Yeah, it's like well, do you know how to you know build your own PC? What probably not but there are a lot of people that are Over the age of 40 that can't do that either But I think I think there is a little bit more of a nuts and bolts thing that maybe the younger set just Has never had to deal with I mean it's it's not new for older generations to misunderstand What younger generations are are good at so I look at this report and I'm like, yeah You know what this this this makes sense. My uncle Harold was old enough to drive in 1937, you know when cars were just starting to not be hobbyist things anymore They were just starting to be regular things So of course he loved collecting cars and he knew how every single one of them worked because he had grown up in an Error where you needed to there wasn't a cheap mechanic around every corner like there is now I'm not like that. Even if I do know how to do something on a car I might not because you know, I'll I'll spend my time more efficiently doing something else and Just paying somebody to change that oil or work on those brakes So it's it's similar to that and I think it's a good reminder that oh We're tech is has been a booming long enough that there are folks like like Scott's son Who haven't been forced to go in and edit the text files of civilization in order to make the king of France say something else Yeah, also Shout out to the 18 to 29 year olds who don't participate in the calls if their setup is going to distract from the calls Because like we've all been on the call with with Accounting who's like walking through the subway or something Running next to him some guys cut in concrete. It's I don't want to hear that Yeah, yeah, it's a good good good self-awareness indicator there But I can tell you that like I'm working with him on stuff like his computer is not working or he's got some problem with the way I don't know the way email is coming to him or something these these things come up and he contacts me in the way my mom contacts me and asked me about it and Part of it I can hear in his voice this feeling of like I don't know because they didn't really tell us. Yeah You know and I'm not this is I'm not trying to parlay this conversation into a big condemnation of the educational system But I am saying that because they just got to skip over all of that hard-knock life They don't know what I see Q is they just know their phones work like they don't know so I again I return to this idea. We've got to figure out a way to Be kinder to them because they're just gonna feel bad all the time I think one way to look at it is that technology used to mean a certain set of skills around computers mostly, right? Yeah, and it now means everything everybody has a supercomputer in their pocket for the most part, right? Everyone has at least, you know The ability to visit a library and get access to the internet most people have it in their homes Even if it's just through their phone so take technology out of this conversation to just take the technology out of it And and you get new workers often feel judged by their older workers and are worried that things are gonna go wrong and I'm like Oh, yeah No, I felt exactly that way not necessarily about technology But about other stuff when I was first entering, you know My first jobs and that's that's just the way it goes and back to what Scott's saying about you know Just be nicer to the new folks help mentor them Yep, I remember my dad trying to make me learn how to change the oil in my car We went we went around that dance for about a decade and finally I was like I will never do this ever I will pay whatever someone wants me to pay them to do this for me. Thank you. I still don't know how to do it All right, Bloomberg's mark German has another story out German very good with this stuff So he's right more well more often than he's wrong and German sources are saying that Apple engineers are working on changes to iOS to support alternative app stores and Sideloting in iOS 17 The work is supposedly being done in advance of the EU's Digital Markets Act. Hey a DMA Which applies to tech companies with at least 45 million monthly users and a market valuation of at least 75 billion euros So the big tech companies among other things the act requires these companies to let users install third-party apps on their operating systems By march 6th 2024 The DMA also requires messaging apps with large user bases to interoperate So if you're like, oh, it's that one the one that makes text messaging, you know work with each other and what's happening all that That's the DMA Since the DMA only applies to Europe though German points out that apple might only implement these changes for european customers Unless other countries also implement similar regulations, which could happen So nothing's been announced by apple officially But German sources do say apple is considering mandating security requirements for third-party apps to run on iOS And possibly requiring verification by apple, which would then carry a fee apple also may open its APIs to Have access to cameras NFC Locating devices third-party browser makers may also be allowed to use engines other than webkits The company has apparently not decided how it intends to comply with the DMA's requirement to allow third-party payment systems in apps yet Right now apple lets some media apps include a link To the web for payment info. Netflix can do that It allows some actual third-party payment options for developers in south korea And just for dating apps in the netherlands because the netherlands force them to do it for dating apps In those last two cases apple still takes a slightly smaller cut of the payments as well Even if it doesn't go through the app store and requires the apps to show warning pop-ups Apple also hasn't not made a decision yet on how to let iMessage interoperate with the other messaging platforms like whatsapp But german sources say it is not going to consider rcs Which might be what you were thinking if you're like, hey, that's the carrier standard for multimedia messaging It's what google has been bashing apple over the head to use Uh, it doesn't sound like that's on the menu for whatever reason Will what do you think this if this all ends up being true? And they they do even if it's just in europe allow third-party payments In or third-party apps to side load. What what do you think this could mean for apples app store? I mean, I think the the my first thought is that apple is going to want to dissuade users from doing this So I think the big thing that's going to hit most You know side loading is usually a really small percentage of the market So we're talking probably single digits unless there's some incredible app that comes out that's only side loaded I think the big thing is that it's going to cause apple to maybe change the way they moderate apps on the existing app store To limit some of the stuff to allow some of the stuff that's previously been disallowed and is marginal like You know support for xcloud apps and uh things like you know, maybe fortnight We'll be back on the app store because they don't want to give people an excuse to go out and get out of their ecosystem And increase the support cost for their devices I mean it would be kind of a fun situation if if apple has won the case epics in the middle of paying for an appeal And they just were like here You do third third-party payments Yeah, I was thinking about that very thing because this is all very interesting timing and and literally could do that Like it could end up just making that entire court fight expensive and mean nothing in the end, but I'm interested to see what it means for potentially third-party app stores And what those look like like is a third-party app store some complete other brand that says Hey, we're making like is it good old games compared to steam or the epic store compared to steam on pc's I'm trying to think of with other equivalents Of these alternatives is the other big one, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the idea the idea of that happening isn't crazy on pc obviously because it's a close It's an open system and steam is not demanding people stay anywhere locking people out of computers. They don't have that power but in this case This puts the iphone closer to what certainly what android is and even closer to what pc's are in terms of its ecosystem And what do those look like could they could we see like a really cool app store pop up? That carries a lot of the same apps we're getting anyway, but also has some other advantages Maybe even for gamers Could netflix have their own app store to help bolster their game thing But also do apps like it gets kind of complicated and weird I don't know how many people have belly up to the bar for it But that's a fascinating landscape and i'm kind of here for it I want to see what that is and the more widely used operating system already has it Android right so if you look at that what what that tells you and it could be different on ios Is that you'll get amazon's app store which that'd be fascinating if there was an amazon ios app store And then you'll get some some fun niche app stores out there that that you can you can side load as well And that would be be fun as well I think wash in the wind in our chat room has a really interesting thought what if google brought the play store to ios Oh, man I mean they could it wouldn't they wouldn't be able to necessarily port all the android apps But what if they operated a an alternative app store on ios it'd be interesting sure well Presumably developers are still going to have to be apple developers and do all the normal agreements there to be able to package The apps for for delivery on whatever or to the devices I think it's really interesting on android seems like the most of the market that's doing side loading is people buying devices That have non google app stores though So like things like amazon kindle tablets and stuff like that not You and I side loading apps on our android devices. Yeah, that's that that is the good point Folks if you ever thought about something we're talking about on the show, but you don't know our email address Let me fix that right now feedback at daily tech news show dot com email us Will you have a long history of testing and reviewing pc components and you recently had a blog post about upgrading your pc on the PC world build stream I like how you described your old machine as a ship of theseus. You just replaced so many parts over the years It was not the same pc you started with So I get why you wanted to start over fresh If we went over every piece of the upgrade it might take as long as watching the new avatar movie So we're going to focus just on the main parts Starting with the cpu. What did you choose? It's so when gordon and adam over pc world asked me if I wanted to come in and build a pc with them They at first were like hey, what cpu do you want? And I said literally I this was before the new cpus came out the new rise and and core cpus came out And I said I didn't know like I I have some really unusual use cases. I podcast. I play games I work in in unreal engine fair amount Um, but I don't do a lot of heavy multicore tasks anymore And when the benchmarks came in for the new cpus We kind of got down to it and we're like, okay So you need occasional spikes because you occasionally will you know compressive video compressive audio something that We use a lot of threads But for the most part you want fast single dual maybe quad core performance And and gordon at pc world recommended the the intel processors in that in that case because they spike higher but but for low core low core counts, but They they aren't quite as fast if you're like hitting all of the cores constantly as as the risons are All right, uh, let's talk about the motherboard.  I like white computer hardware So one of the requirements I gave adam when he was picking out parts was was like, hey The see if you find a white motherboard that'd be cool I didn't realize quite what a challenging thing that was because there's only like seven of them on the market for the new processors Uh, the the suce rog maximus z790 apex Is a lg a 1700 motherboard. It's a ddr5 board and it's primarily for overclockers Um, but it also has a couple of interesting features. One of them Is a uh, there's an additional pc i express power connector on the leading edge of the board where like the sata ports and And all of that stuff are and when you plug your power supply into that it turns the front mounted usbc port Into a 60 watt power supply usb pd power supplies You could charge your laptop or your steam deck or like an ipad off of that at full speed Which is nuts like I when they when they describe the feature me. I was like, this is a really goofy feature I'm never going to do this and then 15 minutes after I had the the thing turned on I had plugged a steam deck into it I was like, oh, it's charging at full speed. This is really nice. Um, the The other thing that's awesome about it is it only has two ram slots slots, which sounds like a negative But we wanted high speed memory in this like really high speed ddr5 memory because that Unreal engine games, which I work on on my day job Are really dependent on memory bandwidth performance typically and so having high refresh high high speed memory In force in a fourth slot configuration Is less likely to work reliably than it is if you put it in a two slot configuration Even having just unpopulated ram slots that you're not using makes the cp the system less stable and and then Also having you know higher clock speeds and all that stuff makes the system less stable So the two slot board seemed like the right way to go in this case And uh, and it's worked out really well so far booted up the first time The machine's been running at ddr5 7600, which is not quite the fastest ram you can get but it's really close And we haven't had any stability problems or performance problems or anything like that out of the gate So yeah, I loved your description of being dismissive of that front PCie port and then when you used it going okay, actually that That's kind of cool. Yeah, but yeah, it just seems like a goofy thing like why I don't need I don't I'm never good Maybe I plug my phone in who knows it's where the gamepad gets plugged in or something So yeah, it's it's a it's a surprisingly useful feature. I hope you see it I hope I see it on more boards in the yeah, it's a it's a classic case of of not understanding What what a feature is good for until you actually get a chance to use it I try to try to remind myself of that sort of thing often All right, let's get to the new gpu. What'd you what'd you pick? Well, so I reviewed the 40 90s from nvidia a few months ago when they when they rolled them out and So I had one laying around and I I just took that in with me We chucked that in there because we figured might as well see what happens. It turns out. It's really fast The the the new AMD GPUs the rdna 3 gpus aren't out yet at the time we did the build last week And the 40 80 seems like kind of a fizzle in terms of price to performance Like they it seems like nvidia may have overpriced it a little bit over over what they should have for the For the the speed that the card's capable of and you you're almost always better off spending a few hundred bucks more on the 40 90 If you're going to spend a thousand dollars plus on a gpu The the rdna boards seem really interesting. There's been a lot of rumors about performance this week But the unfortunately the embargoes on that stuff aren't up yet So we don't we don't have real official benchmarks yet When when you get real official benchmarks Uh, would you even consider revisiting this option? Uh, or or are you happy enough with the 40 90 rtx that I I think I could probably settle for the 40 90 r no The so that the AMD cards are Priced somewhere on it seems like they're going to sandwich the 40 80 based on the the rumors that we've seen So we'll see one that's slightly faster one that's slightly slower It seems like the 40 90 is going to remain the the kind of top dog for this generation from from what we've seen Unless unless amd has a last minute surprise And and like we said wil's got a whole blog post on this. There's a pc world build stream But but to finish out here. Tell us what you do with storage Yeah, so um adam when he was expecting this I was like, hey, we're just going to put a bunch of nvme SSDs in here Is this okay with you and I said yeah, I'm fine with that um, we went with the two Two sk hynex platinum 40 p 41 two terabyte drives and then one solid i'm p 44 pro that's a little bit faster than those And um what I did was I set up the c drive on the solid i'm The slightly faster drive and then I've got a big data partition on spread across those other two drives So that I I actually can like I have a data structure for the first time that doesn't have an old folder on it It says stuff from c which is what every computer I've had for the last 20 years has had on it So I I redesigned my storage and backup processes for this for this new machine We talked about on the tech pod this week, uh, which was which people seem to really enjoy So if you're curious about what the approach was there, you can check that out Did you install a gas generator or solar panels to power your nvidia or how are you dealing with that? I don't don't tell gordon because he'll be really upset with me But I've undervolted almost everything just a little bit because it turns out it's fast enough It's fast enough. Yeah, you can always go back if you need it later. Yeah, I need that juice. It's there. All right Saria thirsty I sure am I'm not only thirsty, but I'm wondering what to do over the holidays with my loved ones And if you're also wondering that you might like this next story hard seltzer beverage company white claw And netflix have somehow banded together for a limited edition murder mystery tabletop game called crack the claw Available for a limited purchase now also has official rules a moderator script 10 double-sided coasters that correspond with things like player roles Like moderator vacationers doctor detective, and who's the murderer? Pair players can pair this game with a white claw of their choice. I guess john shea Chief marketing officer white claw usa. Yes white claws sold separately said in an interview that the game is fun And engaging. Oh, well, I'm glad. Oh bad the more white claws you drink the more fun it is more fun engaging against So it's mafia. It's a mafia game. That's fine. You know, I like a good mafia game a little little among us vibe, right?  I'll do it. I don't totally know how netflix gets involved in this but They have that is the weird bit this reminds me of like the 90s and everything red bull was doing with everything Everybody had a deal with red bull and this just feels like oh white claw netflix. That's just weird enough. I guess that works sort of Yeah, don't don't knock flugetog scott. That's all They they allowed a man to jump from the edge of space to the to the the ground. Yeah, that's right Um, yeah crack the claw guys had no idea that netflix would get into not just video games But tabletop games as well. Yeah. Yeah, what's the claws come out? You never know All right, let's check out the mailbag Let's do it. This one comes from paul paul says since there's been so much talk on the show recently about machine learning content generators Like chat gpt and terms of services or to us. I had a thought. Why not combine the two? Maybe a chat gpt like ai could be used to digest a term of service Then you could ask the ai to do things like give me the top five most Important points from this to us or how does this to us affect my privacy rights? paul says, of course, there would probably have to be legal ramifications about how accurate the ai is Since chat gpt is still prone to simple errors, but it could provide a solution to unreadable to us You know what this doesn't solve the biggest problem that we were talking about on this topic Which is why to us is are the way they are like why we can't have a better system for this But I like what paul's saying is like until we do figure all of that out Here's a way that that maybe it could help you figure things out without having to rely on somebody else Need a lot of training need a lot of vetting You know before somebody could could provide this in a way that you could rely on but I like the idea I think there's something there Yeah, I do too There's so much you can do them in gloom about ai the in the moment in my circles Anyway, a lot of artists are really upset. There's that whole mess at art station. There's a lot of weirdness going on But I like when the conversation turns to creative uses of the technology which is here to stay and it's going to keep growing So we may as well start figuring out cool ways to use it and this is a pretty good one I can't tell you the last time I read a whole to s which I think was never I don't think you've ever done it I've tried I've tried to I really I really tried once I went I'm gonna do this because I'm gonna be a smart consumer I got like two paragraphs in realized there were nine left and I went I'm not I'm done I'm out We did a segment on tested briefly that was like, hey, here's what the to s means and we had to stop doing it Because nobody wanted to read the to s's so You know Yeah, let the machines do it. It's not the most fun research. Yeah machine learning This is this is where it's at the only to s. I've read is the original series There you go Oh, also kt data point out it out in our chat room That you know the netflix white claw crack the claw game is related to the glass onion movie Which is a knives out movie So if I thought we mentioned that but in case we didn't yes, that is that is part of the reason that that is coming out got you Well, uh, great reason for us to do the show is having will smith joining us on the show Thanks so much for being here. Well and let folks know where they can keep up with all that you do Thanks, sarah. Uh, yeah, you can find me at tech pod content town Which is where it's the internet home of brad will made a tech pod Well, also on that side is the fos pod, which is our free and open source software thing And then i'm on twitch at twitch.tv slash not that will smith among other places Excellent scott johnson so nice to have you as well. Let folks know where you There they can keep up with your latest. Well, thank you, sir I I'd love being on wednesdays and when i'm here I always like to let people know maybe one or two cool things going on Well, one cool thing that just happened for me is a revived and old show that I put on hiatus while we waited for You know more to talk about and that is the diablo show Yes, that's right a show entirely dedicated to the video game diablo And uh, I really love doing it when I did it I'm really happy that there's so much more stuff to talk about now And we got a brand new game coming in the form of diablo 4 So if that sounds is it interesting to you and you like that game or that series You want to get into the lore of the whole thing and the news and all the other stuff around it Check out that show at frogpans.com slash diablo or find it right now wherever you get your podcast Special thanks to rob. Oh rob. Oh is one of our top lifetime supporters for dtns Rob we couldn't do without you. Thank you for all years of support Yeah, rob's probably got some of that patron loyalty march Being being a supporter for so long. Uh, you can get that too patreon.com slash dtns new nine-year anniversary logo from len peralta clock started last week So if you sign up now or if you're already signed up, uh in three months, you'll get the first of those patreon merch rewards patreon.com slash dtns Patron stick around for the extended show good day internet Which we roll into right after dtns concludes But just a reminder you can catch this show monday through friday at 4 p.m Eastern 2100 utc find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live We're back doing it all again tomorrow with jesson rubber young joining us talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpans.com


Hello everybody and welcome to the Bitcoin show. What are we at episode 11 or something like that? I've got to put on my granny glasses here, but today we've got some amazing breaking news happening. We had so many things we had to like actually move some things that are not so urgent to tomorrow, but we've got several things happening. Here with us in person is Marwan Salem. Is it Salem or Salem? Salem. From who's the owner of Mezzy Grill? We're going to talk with him in a few minutes. We've also got Joining Us Live via Skype, Jared Kenna, Adam Stradling, and Francisco Dagnino. Did I say all your names right? Yeah. Close enough. From Trade Hill. These are the gangs, three of the principles of tradehill.com. So they're going to be joining us as well for some of the discussions. The first thing I wanted to bring to everyone's attention, because this is breaking news, Ed pointed out that he just discovered, I don't know if you guys have heard this yet, but this is from the desk of Tom Williams, operator of MyBitcoin.com. So this is hot off the press. There's not a date or time attached to it, but we just discovered it. I think it's brand new. But he says, and I'm just going to, it's pretty short, so I'm going to just read it really quick. There are a lot of unanswered questions floating around on the Bitcoin forum and other places about recent Mt. Gox password leaks, the theft from MyBitcoin and theft from MyBitcoin.com system. He said, and Tom, by the way, obviously he's the owner of MyBitcoin.com, which is not an exchange site. It's a Bitcoin-only transaction service. He says, I'm going to attempt to answer any of the questions and concerns as best I can and to silence the rumor mill once and for all. As many of you already know, Mt. Gox was hacked and its password file leaked. As soon as we heard about the leak, we were closely monitoring the system for abnormal activity and we didn't see any. At first glance, we didn't see any hard evidence that a password leak had even occurred. There was just a speculation of an SQL injection vulnerability at Mt. Gox's site. A few clients of ours had informed us on the forum threads and we watched them very carefully. The following morning, a client of ours sent us the download link to the leaked Mt. Gox password file. We promptly downloaded the file, put up a warning on the main page and disabled the login. We attempted to line up usernames from the leak and we found a lot of matching ones. Some people were using the same username and the same password. Big, big mistake, people. You've got to use a unique password. It's got to be scrambled letters and numbers, not your dog's name or your wife's name or your birth dates and anniversaries and all that. And it has to be long, like 16 characters long and you don't use it anywhere else. Anyway, we attempted to line up usernames from the leak and we found a lot of matching ones. We started locking down all of those accounts using a script that we had to have written at the moment's notice. It was during this time we noticed a flurry of spends happening, even with the site disabled. The attacker had active sessions open to the site. We quickly flushed them and the spend stopped abruptly. We disabled the SCI, all payment forwarding and all receipt URL traffic on all of the usernames in the Mt. Glock leaks. We proceeded to change the passwords on every account where the username matched our systems database. PGP signed emails, went out to all of the accounts that we changed the password on. If an account didn't have an email address or already had been compromised, we put up a bulletin. Email addresses were mandatory when we opened our service initially, but people complained that it wasn't truly anonymous, so we made them optional. Unfortunately, this makes contacting a security compromised customer impossible. An investigation was conducted at that time and we determined that the attacker had opened up a session to each active user password payer ahead of time, solved the capture, and used some sort of bot to maintain connection so our system wouldn't time out on the session. It was likely his intent to gain access to more accounts than he did, but as soon as he noticed that we had changed the main page on the site, he sprung into action by sending a flurry of spends. Before you ask, no, we didn't limit logins per IP address, we can't. We have a lot of users that come in from TOR and ITP, et cetera, et cetera. We've concluded that around 1% of the users on the leaked Mt. Glock's password list file had their Bitcoin stolen from mybitcoin.com. It is unfortunate and a horrible experience for the Bitcoin community in general. The IP address that the attacker used was a TOR exit node and the spends were to an address that is outside of our system. If you go to mybitcoin.com and you log on, change your password to a long, secure password, read the bulletin and you can read the bulletin in its entirety, but I think, I don't know when this happened, but I just discovered it. We just discovered it this morning. So that's horrible. Did you guys know about this at trade home? Right. Yeah. That's a disaster. Okay. So I'm going to plug one more time a video that we're producing later today or first thing tomorrow morning. We're doing a fully edited video tutorial how to, how to secure your Bitcoins on your own computer, absolutely securely.  We're going to do a how to do it yourself tutorial so that people who have any significant number of Bitcoin can basically they wipe out the whole entire system, install Linux on it, install a Bitcoin client on it, and we're going to teach people how to do that in a real simple way. And then we're going to have some experts review the script beforehand and then also review the video after before we actually publish it. But it's going to be here on onlyonetv.com. It'll be one of the videos. I'm sure that'll go viral because people need to know how to secure their Bitcoin safely. And it's not even a matter of trusting Tom at my Bitcoin. It's hackers that can hack into a site. But if we do it right and you do it yourself on your own computer, it can be unhackable. It'll be as secure as the Bitcoin network itself. A lot of people are getting confused thinking that the Bitcoin network has this vulnerability. It's not the network at all. It's just the fact that sites do exist on the internet. So anyway, we'll come back to those issues. The other one, the breaking news is many people know if you go to mountgox.com, you'll see that they're saying that anyone who has reclaimed their mountgox account, they will have access to it on Friday, June 24, around 3 a.m. UTC GMT time, which is Thursday, 11 p.m. That would be 11 p.m. tonight, New York time. So you should be able to log on to your mountgox account after that time. And remember you go to claim, is it claim.mountgox.com to, or just go to mountgox.com and read the bulletin and there's a link to it there. And you'll be able to enter your credentials and they have to verify your identity. It's a mess. And my Bitcoin is going to have to do the same thing now. So anyway, these are sort of troubling times, but we'll make our way through it. So all right, back to the topic of today's show is, as I said, Marwan Salem is here from Mezi Grill. And Mezi Grill is authentic Mediterranean food in Callista Columbus Circle here in Midtown Manhattan. And he's getting a lot of notoriety as being one of the first brick-and-mortar retail stores or restaurants or any kind that accepts Bitcoin right in the store at the cash register. So let's talk, we want to talk about for a few minutes what, how that happened and how it came about. And it's a personal story, but go ahead.   And at one point, you said, Marwan, this is something you have to get on to, you can be right on the front edge, you can be on the cutting edge of this. So I said, hey, why not, we're a new business, we might as well try something new and see how it goes. And it's been, it's been a really great, you know, it's been a really great experience for it. We've gotten some, some really nice coverage for it. We've had a lot of customers inquire what it is, you know, we have a sign right in front of the, right in front of the store posted right in the window saying we accept Bitcoins. There's a sign at our register that indicates that. So it's been a great, it's been a great thing for us. So I'm very anxious to see kind of where it goes. It's such an exciting product and, you know, how it's developing, especially for retail use. I mean, it's, it's, it could really be great. So. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, to tell, to tell the audience a little bit of the backstory, because this is really about, about all of us here, because the way it, you know, what happened is, and I live here in Midtown, Manhattan, and Mezzy Grill is right here a few blocks from Columbus Circle. It was our neighborhood. It sells kitchen. It's called as the name of the neighborhood. And we used to go there. We just used to go there and we love the food. We were going there once or twice or three times a week and loving the food. And that's how we met Marwan, obviously. He's the owner. He's very friendly and, you know, he'll come and say hello if he's available and so on. So he used to sit down with us and we just yak and yak. And we talk about technology. Remember, we talk about phones, smartphones, apps, technology, all kinds of stuff. We're launching an Internet television network. Oh, how cool that is. Exactly. And I told him about Bitcoin and even at the time, it was kind of like, you know, what's that? You know, but eventually he said, okay, sure, let's do it. So it's very cool. What a lot of people want to know is the checkout process.  So, but tell me how you're doing it. Well, what we do is a test. It's, I mean, it's real simple.   We went to Mt. Gox at first, got whatever the last trading price was, converted dollars to Bitcoins and said, you know, your transaction is, you know, 0.75 Bitcoins. And the guy, you know, hit send. And then about a minute later, I got a confirmation and it worked seamlessly. We actually had another customer who had come in, I think we were actually featured in a story that was written on Fortune, Fortune magazine's technology blog, which is on CNN. And this customer was visiting from San Francisco and happened to be at the Time Warner Center, like two blocks away from our restaurant. He saw this story come up on his laptop and he decided, he's like, wow, this restaurant is just two blocks away from where I am. And he was on his way to the airport, you know, but he said, I got to try this. And he actually came with his laptop and he didn't have an Android-enabled phone, but he came with his laptop, tethered it to his cell phone and said, I want to pay you using Bitcoins and actually went through the process. No kidding. And worked no problem. No problem. This is a weird kind of unique interview because I already know the answers to all the questions. So I'm going to pretend like I don't know the answers. Because I know the answers to all these questions because I know you set it all up.  People are going to go there specifically because, oh my gosh, this is history of the making. I want to see what a restaurant looks like that takes Bitcoin. We had customers who called us. And you know, while I think we serve great food and hopefully our customers think the same thing, you know, we've had customers who've called and said, where are you located? Do you guys still accept Bitcoins? How later are you open? And they're not coming for the food. They're coming specifically for the ability to make that transaction to say, I paid with Bitcoin. But let's make it clear. I'm going to say it again. The reason that we discovered messy grills because the food is so great. They have amazing, amazing food. It's really, really good and delicious and fresh and you know, very fresh and a lot of organic ingredients. And that's as much as possible. Very, very healthy. It's kind of like, it's like, it's sort of almost like an upscale fast food, but it's very affordable and very healthy choice, right? Yes. Yes. And I'll pull the disclosure. Of course, messy grills is a sponsor as you probably already know. You've heard all about it. You've been everywhere all the media. Well, we're a big fan of only one TV. Right. And how has, I know that you've got, you've received a lot of media attention because I keep getting asked, you know, for your contact details from all these media things. Yes. How does that, I mean, how has that affected you or the restaurant, all this media attention? It's been really nice actually.  I mean, a lot of people are very fascinated by the Bitcoin concept and we keep getting the same questions from them. You know, they're very fascinated by how does it work? How do you transact it? How do you account for it?  And I just say, you know, we've had so many great transactions so far. You know, it's just worked just like we're taking dollars. And, you know, for us, as a merchant, you know, one thing that appeals to us so much about Bitcoin is the fact that it's a transaction, it's a peer-to-peer transaction with no middleman and no transaction charge. And, you know, one thing that was really interesting, actually a tweet that I read two days ago published by the Wall Street Journal, they said credit card merchants, i.e., people like me, merchant fees have gone up 164% since 2000. Really? When they were, yes. And I'll flip your topic. I thought they were going down with competition. Merchant fees, the amounts that we pay as merchants, we pay, the amounts has gone from, I think in the U.S., it was about $23.6 billion to, in 2010, credit card merchant fees were over $65 billion. Oh, I get it. I get it. I get it. See, I think that the percentages might have been creeping down with competition, but the overall dollar amount is going up because the newspaper guy on the corner takes visa, everybody takes visa, because so now, like, it's very, very hard to find any kind of merchant that doesn't take credit cards. Well, there's also all the rewards points, all the airline miles, all your American Express points, all these things. Merchants pay for those, and for customers who are looking for a seamless, one-way transaction to transact something electronically because they don't want to carry cash or carry change, Bitcoin is so appealing and it's so simple for people to be able just to go, like with us, to take a QR code, swipe it, done. For those who don't know, if you've never been a merchant at all, a chargeback is basically a credit card version of a balanced check, when a check is returned for NSF, non-sufficient funds. It's sort of like that. A chargeback is where the bank takes your money back later after the fact, visa, mastercard, all the credit cards, and PayPal can do that six months later. So with Bitcoin, let me ask you how many chargebacks have you had? Zero. Zero. Because we know, obviously, that was a trick question. There's no such thing as a chargeback and there's no fees. It's just done. Now when you, initially, we're going to Mt. Gox, all of us, we're going to Mt. Gox because 90% of the online purchases were happening through Mt. Gox and to get the value of Bitcoin, but now we talked about it this morning that you're going to, everybody's looking at Trade Hill now for the value of a Bitcoin at the moment, obviously, because Mt. Gox is down, it'll be back, but at the moment, we're looking at Mt. Gox, I'm sorry, Trade Hill for the price. That's right. Now, a lot of people in the earlier days, they're still in the early days, but in the earlier days, people were asking, they were speculating that merchants are not going to like Bitcoin because it's too volatile, that the price goes up and down, and it changes minute to minute. How do you feel about that? Has that been a worry?  I mean, the thing is, truthfully, we don't do such a huge volume in Bitcoin business that it really, that fluctuations are really going to affect our business. I mean, maybe if the volatility gets so crazy, and we do a lot of volume in the future, maybe that might be an issue, but for right now, it's like any startup business or startup concept. So for us, we're willing to accept the volatility ride that we take, so to say. And we haven't really seen much of a fluctuation on it. Sometimes, so far, we've changed Bitcoins maybe once, and maybe the difference was very insignificant. So, you know, maybe it's something I think as Bitcoin grows, maybe the value of Bitcoins will eventually kind of, they won't be so volatile compared to where they are right now. And have you noticed that in its volatility, I always say yes, it goes up and down, up and down like this. Because even if you buy high and sell low, you're still, it's still doubling in value in the end. Exactly. The, you know, and even with this disaster of what has happened with Mt. Gox and now my Bitcoin, still, I think I read, correct me if I'm wrong in the chat room, but if I'm not mistaken, Bitcoin was about $17, $17.50 right before the flash crash on Mt. Gox. And then after this disaster, like today, it's something like $15. So when from $17 to $15, which actually when you think about it, that is surprising how little impact it had on the value of Bitcoin. That's right. The people who are into Bitcoin understand, it's not the Bitcoin network that was hacked, it's one exchange site. And that is a really, really important point that, you know, well, maybe two, maybe it's Mt. Gox and my Bitcoin, it's all, it kind of, there's a ripple effect of hacking into sites. But the Bitcoin network and your own offline storage of Bitcoin, if you have it in your own computer or on Bitbills or whatever form you have, is so far absolutely secure and still unhackable. That's right. So that's an important thing. And the value over time, I mean, if you don't need to sell them, like within 24 hours, there could be a little bit less value because it goes up and down moment to moment. But if you're holding on to them and you're only cashing them in once a week or once a month, you're probably going to end up with a lot more value than you started with. So that's a beneficial thing. That doesn't happen with dollars. You don't end up with more dollars at the end of the month, because then you took in. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. The interest usually is less than the inflation erosion of the value. Tell me about it. So is there anything you want to tell the world about being... First of all, do you realize the historic moment, the historic time we're in right now, as to our knowledge, correct us if we're wrong, the first brick-and-mortar restaurant in the world, in Manhattan for sure, but in the world that accepts Bitcoin at the cash register. I mean, over the past few days, it's really really... Actually, over the past few weeks, it's really come to light. At first, when we started getting into it, it really didn't occur to me how much of a movement and how large of an idea this was. And the more and more that I've learned about it, the more I think it's just an exceptional concept. And if it develops the way that it should, I think it could be truly revolutionary in the way people transact business. In a sense that, like I say, it's great, it's an upside for merchants. In a sense that there's no fees between the customer and the merchant, it's great for customers because they don't have to worry about carrying cash. It's a very easy process. I mean, I think people find that great. And the one thing I would say is that, hopefully, this would give a wake-up call or some competition to credit card companies. Because right now, credit card companies are basically... One guy raises his fees and everybody else goes up with them. And nobody complains. It's the bank. I mean, credit card companies, they are the banks. They are the banks. It's the world bankers that are in charge of our money and our debt and money has debt and all that. Exactly. And honestly, it's a little overbearing to see. For every time you swipe a card, it's a 10 cent fee. And then you have interchange fees. And then if you have an American Express, you have to wait three full business days to get your money. At some point, somebody's got to provide some competition to that to make an electronic transaction seamless and easy for customers. And that's one thing I think Bitcoin could just be revolutionary in. So hopefully, we'll start seeing some more business on it and we'll see how it goes. So, Ellie in the chat room says she just bought some shares of MeziGrow. I don't know. Maybe she intends to. You'll be hearing from her later. Wonderful. So do you remember how much a Bitcoin was when you first learned the value of a Bitcoin? I think it was in the sense. I think it wasn't like five cents or something. Five or maybe even more or less somewhere around there. Now it's like 15 bucks. Yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible. Too bad you weren't taking Bitcoin earlier and don't sell them. Yeah. No, we've held on to all of them. I mean, I've exchanged maybe once, but just to see how the process goes. But since then, we've held on to all of them. It's been like I said, it's been a great process. We've really, really enjoyed it. So. I don't give financial advice. Sell them all you want. You can do anything you want. But anyway, wouldn't it have been cool if you had had lots of Bitcoin then and not sold? Would it could have. Exactly. So history in the making, the first restaurant that is accepting Bitcoin. How much time are we in it? 20 minutes left. Okay, good. So I want to transition over here to our guys, our team from tradehill.com. We're joining us via Skype. We have, let's see, that's Francisco Dagnino, if I said it right on the left, and Jared Kenna in the middle, and Adam Stradling on the right. Hey, guys, thanks for taking the time to join us. I know you've got a lot going on with Mt. Gox down. You're the, you are Bitcoin Exchange online, right? It's correct. So we want to talk, I wanted to hear what you guys have to say about the financial aspects of Bitcoin the exchange sites, and what's happening in that arena right now. I think we should let Adam talk about that. He's got the background on this thing. He can tell us a little bit about what he does. Can you hear him well, Adam? I mean, the big thing that comes to mind with a lot of these security breaches, and the challenges facing kind of a brand-mended market right now is that if you look on the institutional level, which is one of the items that I have consulting on now with one of my other clients, I also have consulting companies I started with this. There's standardization at the exchanges and there's standardization in clearing and settlement. And it's typically organized by all the banking participants, mostly their chief risk officers who come together and create a risk committee. And then they set all the exchange policies. Of course, they set marginal requirements, collateral requirements, things like that. The exchange community for Bitcoin at this point hasn't kind of evolved into margining those other items. But they also set policies for such things as circuit breakers. So as you know, there could have been an indication in what happened in Mt. Fox situation that there was a market manipulation going on. And if somebody had a circuit breaker in place when it was monitoring that, they could have basically frozen everything. And it probably would have been much easier to basically stop what was happening and then also prevent further damage. The NYSE and other exchanges have similar, very similar rules set in place. So we had actually proposed between quite a few different people in exchanges to talk about this and think about if there's some standard rules that we should have that we operate by and implement those and have it be kind of a community-based committee. Let me ask you, I'm sorry to interrupt. Let me ask you to grab that microphone and hold it right up to your mouth because a lot of people can't hear you. Can't hear you very well.  Is that, yeah, or are you on the laptop? Maybe you can speak into it, yeah. So we can hear you. So you're, and of course, when you're talking about a circuit breaker, you're talking about an automated system so that if someone, like, I read an article in one of the MSNBC blog or something like that this morning. It was, I'm going to talk, we're probably not going to have time to get to it today, but tomorrow I'm going to talk about some of the news coverage that has been, you know, it's not so much pro and con Bitcoin. It's more like accurate and absolutely false. A lot of things, somebody said that they, this one article suggested that because of the hack into the site, you know, there was a panic sell that brought the price down to a penny. And obviously that's not what happened. What happened is somebody hacked into an account and then they sold all of the entire Bitcoins for a penny. And that's a completely different story. That's what brought the value down to a penny. So what you're talking about is an automated thing so that when the price is 1750 and somebody sells, you know, eight, 10 million dollars worth of Bitcoins at a penny, that would immediately block that sale? Yeah, I mean, I think it could be manual too. And automated. But that would be the idea is, you know, logically, why would somebody come in and dump that much on the market and then also burn through all the bits at that rate? So that's something that's not, you know, happening that should be happening in the market. And you could have a manual or you could have it, you know, automated in terms of then shutting everything down and basically kind of hitting a panic button or a circuit breaker. Right. And I mean, nobody who's running an exchange can actually watch it personally every millisecond, 24 hours a day. Mt. Gox's, you know, Mark and Adam are in Tokyo, which is completely the opposite, you know, time as us. And you guys are in Chile, but, you know, you can't manually watch it 24 hours a day personally. And even if you could, this stuff can happen in seconds. So you're talking about an automated thing and you mean standardized among a number of exchange sites so they all use the same formula because that could be a problem too if one uses a different formula than another. What would be the result? A lot of people, what are acceptable security measures because we do have a different, you know, kind of user coming in to Bitcoin. We've seen it through all the requests that we've had and it's been people who just hadn't really used it before. So, you know, it could be an opportunity to really take responsibility and show people, you know, that these places, that these are safe places to transact business.  And this is obviously kind of farther out, you know, there's immediate things, but those are just some of the ideas and from my experience on how exchanges, institutional level exchanges are running organized, those are the types of things that they have in place. Right. And this is obviously, you're just, it's a matter of you seeing the need. When, especially when there's a terrible car accident, you see the need for the traffic light, so you've seen what's happening. You just learned about another disaster at my Bitcoin, which is, I shouldn't be laughing at it, it's really tragic. It's a result of the thing that happened at Mt. Gox and so on. But this is a definite need in the industry and this new industry that is about exchanges and to have standards for security and auditing and circuit breakers, what other things could be covered by that? Right now, obviously, yeah, I think those are the main ones. A lot of the other exchanges have rules on types of lateral, margin requirements, you know, international transaction and registering and becoming a registered participant of those exchanges. So, you know, I don't think those necessary apply right now, but if margining does occur in the future, then there should be probably some requirement, there would be some practice requirements on margin. We manually approve large withdrawals. So, for example, if something does go wrong and they get away with 90,000 Bitcoins, we have to manually approve it. And we're going to look at it and we're going to see why is this person pulling out 90,000 Bitcoins? How did they get these Bitcoins? So we, if it's 20 Bitcoins, we're not too concerned, but if it's a large amount, we backtrack, we verify every transaction mixture, it's large. So if someone does get a hold of that money, illegitimately, they're not going to be able to pull it out. It's going to stay in the system. And that goes for all the currencies and Bitcoins. Okay. As we have more people who are joining us, and we actually want to monitor 24-7 as of right now, but we're trying to set that up. So, and that's just basically processing our client's safety right now until basically we can automate kind of circuit breakers, you know, at this point. Okay. Yeah, Mark, why don't you got a question? Do you mind if I ask you guys a question? I understand what you're saying about taking and being able to prevent like large transactions like a 90,000 Bitcoin exchange or something. What about somebody who's trying to do like multiple exchanges for the same amount? Like let's say somebody's trying to do 100 Bitcoins, the same users going over and over and over again. Would you have something in place to kind of stop that or prevent that from happening as well? Yeah. Yes, withdrawals, that's what I meant. I'm sorry. Okay. So, we would notice 50 Bitcoins, 50 Bitcoins, 50 Bitcoins we would not. Okay. The other thing is it's tied to the Bitcoin price and the dollar. So, there's a lot of speculation at God's that they tried to bomb the price and then pull out 100,000 Bitcoins that were working to stop being a exchange rate. So, we have measures in place to make sure that they don't manipulate the market and then try to get around it that way as well. Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. Maybe, yeah, I mean if they are going to have withdrawal limit of a thousand. If someone will come and say to us, hey, this is a good customer, they're taking a lot of coins, and so we'll want somebody now. Yeah. Hey, we're busy, we're really busy. And I bet I know we have the same thing here. If you'll just walk in right into the studio. The other day we had somebody trying to open this door right here on the set. I mean trying to get the door open. So, yeah, we had somebody trying to rob. She's pretty suspicious stuff and we contacted them and it turned out to be better. Wow, interesting. And I'm like kind of handling client relations and sales and I usually just try to, hey, what's going on? Oh yeah, you know, if you're moving $50,000, we want to know about it too. Yeah. I want to talk about this good relationship so it works, it works good on that too. Yeah, you can kill two birds with one stone. That's great. That's cool. Yeah, so I mean like, do you do that like, like automatically if it's over a certain amount? That you're going to get, you're going to get flagged before they, they can actually withdraw it or after they withdraw it? That works, but yeah, if there's an amount and a system that you set up that's worked flawlessly so far. Basically, if it's more than $15, you're going to, you're going to get. But it's a little bigger than $15. Oh, okay. You're going to get a call. Like, uh, like the. We don't, we don't necessarily, but we don't want to sacrifice security to you. Yeah, like it is, just like a credit card company saying, I noticed that you charged lunch in New York and dinner in the Czech Republic. You know, are you sure it's you? That's, that's a good thing. So, um, do you see, when, how does, how do you see this all playing out? Do you think that there are going to be a lot of exchange sites or is it always going to be just a couple? Right. But there's new market, particularly that, um, it is tough to say. I mean, at this point, we're really just trying to, we, I mean, we have four partners. We're on this full time and then we have staff too. So we're just really hand, you know, hammering it out to make sure that everybody's requested to answer it and that we, we kind of just keep doing our best job to, you know, to make sure something's done. So, yeah, I think that's good to, to any sort of rejection on a big point for more than a week. I mean, we're positive. And about what happened on Sunday, I think that though it did hurt the economy somewhat, I think in the long run, it's going to be a good thing. It's going to show people that Bitcoin is a serious business. It's not a speculative toy anymore. Right. So, uh, and that's also going to demand a lot from us, from all the exchanges. So, um, we're, well, we're actually trying to organize a, you know, a meetup with the big minors and the exchanges. We try and come up with some sort of set of rules that we can all agree on. So, as to provide some sort of help in certifying ourselves through security and financial aids to give our customers a bit more confidence in the sense that this is a serious thing. We're not fraud by any gentle far from it. So, I think that's going to be the best outcome out of this. Okay. Let me, this sounds like a really good time to take a quick break and we have to thank our sponsors and these are blatant promotions to all of our guests today happen to be sponsors. So, not all of our sponsors are guests today, but the other way around. But, um, we want to thank you guys, all of you guys, because, um, you guys make this possible. And the community really, really appreciates what we're doing here trying to get the news out about, about the Bitcoin world. And we're here every day, Monday through Friday, 2 p.m. Eastern time in the Bitcoin show. And then also the Spanish language version, which is El Show to Bitcoin Wednesdays every week. Wednesdays at 4 p.m. And, uh, so first we want to thank BitcoinBonus.com. BitcoinBonus.com is a very cool site. If you haven't checked it out, I got a whole bunch of people telling me about it before they even became a sponsor. Then later they contacted me and said they want to become a sponsor. When you shop online, no matter what it is you buy, all the big .coms are on there, big and small. You've got to remember right before you click buy, go, go over to BitcoinBonus and see if they're there. Click on their link and you'll get Bitcoins back. I had a guy who was, uh, said that he was some sort of a website developer and he has his clients set up hosting accounts. So he sets up two or three hosting accounts every week. And every time he set up a hosting account for a customer, he got 50 Bitcoin.  So check out BitcoinBonus.com for everything that you buy online and get kickbacks in Bitcoin. It's brilliant. And also, of course, tradehill.com. Tradehill is the way to buy Bitcoin online, to buy and sell Bitcoin for currency, multiple currencies, easy ways to get it in and out. They're adding more all the time. They're ramping up to this explosive demand that's hitting them. I think they're kind of blindsided by it. And then I'm not blindsided, but they're like probably in shock, a little bit overwhelmed. But they're handling it with grace and style and professionalism. These guys know what they're doing and it was a surprise that what's happened at Mt. Gox and now suddenly all attention is on Tradehill. So this has happened overnight in explosive growth. But they're handling it. They're handling it well.  If you just use only one TV, the Bitcoin chose referral code, which is TH-R141. Write that down. It's on your screen. TH as in Tradehill-R as in referral 141.  And the rates are lower than Mt. Gox anyway with that referral code. Then we also want to thank Mezzy Grill. Marwan Salem is our guest today. And Mezzy Grill is authentic Mediterranean food. What's the rest of that? Where authentic Mediterranean food meets modern flavor. See, okay. I don't feel so bad. Yeah. There you go. It's a long tagline. But it's great. It's absolutely true. Fantastic, fantastic food. Thank you. So Mezzy Grill is M-E-Z-E grill.com. And it's on 8th Avenue. 8th Avenue between 55th and 56th Street. 55 and 56th on 8th Avenue. Just a couple blocks from Columbus Circle. So if you're visiting New York or live here, just go to Columbus Circle and couple blocks south and find Mezzy Grill. It's worth it. It's absolutely worth it. The venture and very affordable, very delicious and very healthy. And US Gold Coins. USGoldCoins.com. That's our buddy Andy Gauss who you're going to be meeting very, very soon. We're going to get him on as a guest. And he's actually going to take his show. He has a national radio show twice a week called The Real World of Money with Andy Gauss. If you haven't heard of him, check him out. He's brilliant, monetary historian, economist, brilliant, brilliant guy. And he owns this company called USGoldCoins.com. And they sell numismatic gold and silver coins as investments. So if you want to diversify and not keep it all in Bitcoin, have a little bit of rare gold and silver coins. He's the man and he's absolutely, I can vouch for his honesty and integrity. And if you ever need to find yourself in a bind and you need to sell your gold and silver back to him, he will buy it back. He's a very, very honest guy. Unlike a lot of the gold dealers that you'll find. So we thank USGoldCoins.com and Andy Gauss. So back to all this. What do you guys see happening in the real short-term future? Is there anything really exciting that you see that's going to rock the Bitcoin world in the next coming weeks or months? I don't think anything is not exciting. And I think everything is short-term in the future. I want to disagree with these guys. You said two or three months. You said three or three weeks. I think two or three hours is as far as I was going to say. It's too fast. It's intense. The speed of Bitcoin is ridiculous. The speed.  Yep. It's happening so fast. There's no time to sleep or eat. What is that, right? Fortunately. We know that. We've been up three, you know, two or three, four a.m. You know, five to sleep, five or six hours. We have people coming in in the morning too. But one of the interesting things that we're thinking is what happens when Gauss opens up. And what do people do? That's one. And two, we're seeing a completely new client base coming in. And it really requires education from the ground up. And we're actually spending the time to walk people through the steps of how you even just made a Bitcoin transfer for the first time. And they're coming to us to do this or to send international wires in some of these other items. And we're spending the time to basically walk through that. But those are the two things that I see happening right now that are interesting. We also had an interview with Ottawa Citizen yesterday and also Warriors. So media, different media outlets are picking this up more intently. Not as well as you do. But yeah, we actually referred, we're adding some, you said over your contact information, Bruce, to talk to you, unique information. Cool. Also, we recommend them speaking with Java too or stuff. I don't speak Spanish though. I hope they can understand me. This was Ottawa Citizen. Oh, Ottawa Citizen. I thought this was the Chilean news. Ottawa. Oh, you're the one who sent them. Yeah, they called me. Yes, I already did that interview. Yeah. I was like, Ottawa. Okay, whatever. That's cool. That's the capital of Canada. We know that. Yeah. So I suppose we should do a little more clear on that. Okay. Sorry, I was going to say, you guys said you talked to somebody from Reuters yesterday? Yeah, Fred Cardiama. Fred Cardiama. He interviewed me yesterday. He's a full-time technologist, Reuters and CNN in terms of business technology. Yeah, he interviewed me in my restaurant yesterday. They filmed. They staged it. Yeah, so Small World. Yeah. He was focusing on how business owners were using big things right now. So that's a really interesting topic because you guys being the exchange and you guys being the retailers, merchants, that's something that a lot of people say. I'm not sure if I believe it completely, but a lot of people say that Bitcoin is not going to really reach mainstream until it's absolutely accepted at many, many mainstream places. So there's some truth to that, of course. So I mean, what do you guys see is going to be necessary for Bitcoin to be accepted just everywhere? And also I want to preface that by saying the bitcoinme.com site, which I set up, you know, it's kind of Bitcoin for newbies thing. And there's an accept tab. And what I did is I put instructions there, like super, super oversimplified way, how any merchant can be set up to accept Bitcoin within moments. And that's what Marwan has done. And you actually, you took that artwork and the QR code and you put it into what, Photoshop? I put it into Adobe Illustrator. Adobe Illustrator. Yeah. And then I just kind of put the Bitcoin logo right there along with ours just so people knew that that was our unique code. Very easy. And then you just, what, did you laminate it? Or just slash it? Yeah, I actually took it to Kinko's right in my neighborhood. And that, you know, you can do the lamination yourself. They give you the plastic and you just run it through the machine. And it's very simple. That is, it's so simple. Very easy. So if you're any kind of a merchant, any kind of brick and mortar shop, just go to bitcoinme.com, click on accept tab, and look at the artwork that's there. And you guys, yeah, just put it into Adobe Illustrator, do it yourself, go to Kinko's, laminate it. Boom, you're taking Bitcoin tomorrow and routers will be filming in your store. Who knows, you won't be the first one, but you could be the second one. Exactly. So what do you, and I know that there's, there's, there are cash register companies that are jumping on the technology. People tell me a lot of things that I'm not allowed to repeat, but I know there's a lot of point of sale stuff coming. Do you, does Trade Hill want to get involved in merchant services at all? For sure. The thing is we've got about a thousand things we want to do. And actually, we just came up with an idea that I think it's going to change versus services to Bitcoin forever. And I don't want to tell you what it is right now, because it's not super complicated, and someone will copy us, and we want to just come out of nowhere and just drop this and just run with it. But I think it's going to change forever. And unfortunately, if we have one restaurant doing it, we might have to wait a little bit. But when, even with our exchange fees and everything else, it's going to be cheaper than using a V-set. It's going to be cheaper than using Paypal. It's going to be cheaper than any of that stuff. So I think, I think the big thing for merchants is if they can get their dollars quickly, they might not, you know, trust in Bitcoin and have long-term expectations. But if they can accept Bitcoin and then quickly get dollars from it, it eliminates that risk and they don't have to really trust in the Bitcoin. They have to trust in it for a few minutes, which is a lot easier than trusting in it long-term. Right. And businesses, I mean, just for the audience that may not understand, if you're not running a brick-and-mortar business, you may not understand this, but we've had talks about it. And if you think it through, it's kind of obvious. If you are running a business, you have a food order. You got to put an order in for your produce and for your meats and all these things and payroll and everything else. So you've got a constant cash flow issue. And unfortunately, not everybody accepts Bitcoin yet. So right now, you take Bitcoin in and you need dollars right away so that you can pay to keep your cash flow going. So that's why it's not that it's not worth holding on to them. Of course it is. But if a business needs cash flow and they can't just funnel all that cash off to Bitcoin, I mean, unless they're really cash rich. Well, unless you can find vendors who start accepting Bitcoin and then you can just start paying them directly doing that. There you go. You hear that, vendors? If you're selling stuff to business to business, to retailers, start accepting Bitcoin and then like Mezi Grill and all these businesses that accept Bitcoin will just purchase directly through Bitcoin. And I think there's an upside for merchants too, or for other businesses like for wholesalers that do business to us. We pay a lot of businesses using my debit card sometimes and they will call. They have to pay a debit card fee and sometimes it's $1,000, $2,000. That merchant's paying the bill on that. So imagine they could come and just say they're taking Bitcoin instead. I'm sure they would love it. Are bankers like the mob? They get a cut of everything. Everything. They get the little cut of everything at every level of everything. Well, I didn't say that. That was a question. You could say anything as long as there's a question mark on the end. Probably a dimension that a lot of people haven't thought about is that we live in, I mean, the Chile is considered the most credible nation in South America that has very stable economy and has a high step rating, things like that. But it's still kind of an emerging economy and computers are still kind of the internet is still growing here. The population base is growing and Bitcoin will be an unbelievable way for a small number of people who really can't get credit or get online payment methods to open up that entire market. That's so true. And because their current credit structure is built around a different dynamic and as long as they have a computer now and in exchange, they can actually start doing stuff online. Where they couldn't do it before. And we see that firsthand just as we've seen in here. I think that's a huge thing. But it's not just Chile. It's sorry to talk on top of me. Go ahead. Oh, okay. I was going to say it's not just Chile. It's absolutely global. So this is true of everybody in every country whether whatever the deal is, if they don't have... Yeah. I mean, the fact that you need credit to do banking is just so wrong. Basically, it's cash is cash and it's cash like. So you don't need credit and you can even be in an emerging a third world economy where it's a charity or whatever it is. They don't need to be approved by a bank. You can just click a button. As easy as setting up a new Gmail account, even easier, you can get set up to accept Bitcoin and now you receive Bitcoin for whatever the product or service it is that you're providing. Even if it's micro tasks and you live in Kenya, you can actually get paid in Bitcoin and it's a universal currency that you can travel anywhere to any country and actually use. Imagine what it would be for the tourism industry too.  Wow, there you go. Now see there. You just came up with an idea. I hope this isn't your idea. What about a... Before they left Australia and then come here and, you know, change it in and, I mean, if we have a local bank account, we can get the money out of it. Oh, yeah, exactly. The idea of exchanging currencies when you travel, isn't that so yesteryear?   It doesn't matter if you're in Sweden or Australia or Japan or New York or wherever. The fact that everybody knows about Bitcoin, everybody, you know, I mean US dollars kind of like that, but it's not because it's not accepted everywhere. But if Bitcoin becomes that, ubiquitous, that it's absolutely everywhere, it's just brilliant. Someone's asking in the chat room, by the way, you guys, does this trade real run on a dedicated server and how much of the balance is kept offline for security? Can you talk about that? The bulk of it is stored separately, the wallet. We're going to basically break down the entire process probably in a couple of days, explain it a lot better, and I think everyone's going to be really impressed. We've actually brought in a couple of pretty high-profile security professionals and we'll give their bios and everything else. I think everyone will be really impressed. It's pretty insane what they're doing in order to keep this secure because it's just the risk, it's just ridiculous. Yeah, we basically reached out to these people. We speak with a few people today. We actually haven't kind of confirmed that they already worked with us. They said they wanted to. They showed us kind of what they proposed and we actually just sent them some email recently saying, we actually would want you to kind of partner with us and kind of really take a little while to warrant on this. And they're really well-known people who are involved with security. I think you'll see that there are very credentials that they want to do this, but because we love it and we love to have them be a part of this. And they've done the security for a lot of major banks, at least one of these individuals has. And I honestly believe when you see our new security plan, you will agree that it's stronger than the banks and it needs to be because I honestly believe we have more risk than the banks. Right, yeah, that's true. I think so because it's global. I mean, even Citibank was hacked in recent weeks. We read about that. So, yeah, I mean, it's like- And in that, no matter where you're putting money, there is this risk of major and INF just hacked all these other things. So, and we do say that Bitcoin is kind of, it's pleasantly and it's growing and it's a new business. So, you know, we're saying to people, you know, don't let that happen. You know, try it out. See how it works? You get familiar with it. Educate yourself. And then, and then get into it. So, you know, we're putting this together that this is kind of an experiment because we are responsible for people's wealth in some way and well, definitely. And we don't want to, you know, kind of mislead people or get them to be hyped up about something that is, I mean, we believe in it. We think it's going to work. But, you know, there's a lot of big questions. And it is an experiment. And right now it looks like it has all this functionality. Every piece of talk about it does a lot of great things. So, you know, it's a responsibility too, you know. And just like everything else is financed, diversified. Don't put all your money into Bitcoin. Don't put all your gold. Sure as hell, don't put all your gold. You know, don't put all your money into exchange, too. Yeah, exactly. You know, don't put all your money into exchange, too. But I think we're going to make it clear, really clear for you. We're almost out of time. If you're getting spam and emails that are giving you a profile code that is not us, we're actually really pissed about that. And we are banning and removing our profile codes when people are doing that right and left. Honestly, I haven't heard anybody complain in the last three days about spamming. Because people are seeing that if you spam it, you take it away. So, it's that clear. Good. Because we look into it. We make sure that you really are spamming it and then we strip the profile code. You can set a sample. We definitely will put it on. You can still on information or anything. And you know, and obviously, people look at it and say it helps us a lot. And the truth is, yeah, people got all this information, but we've taken those profile codes out. And we're not, you know, we don't. That's not in our body system. So, that's good. So, get that on and make that clear. I'm going to repeat it in case you didn't hear it. Spam a trade hill referral code and they will ban that referral code. So, don't do it. Don't spam it. Only give it to your friends and people you know. That's cool.  If I know one little tidbit more than you, then I'm the consultant, you've got to pay me. But you know, when it comes to security, it really has to be the experts, experts, experts. How do you verify how, you know, the credentials or the real knowledge of these security experts? And do you get, are you going to want to get two, three opinions that are completely independent? And are you going to release your database to somebody for an audit? So, we let him handle those decisions. But I also like to emphasize, it's not cheap. A really good auditing firm in this might start $2,000 an hour. Yeah. And they need a few hours. So, it's ridiculously expensive to have an audit. That was going to say that, you know, I know that this is another unique, really weird phenomenon of this all happening in internet speed. Bitcoin is brand new. It's a brand new technology. These are new, the idea of an exchange site is a brand new industry really.  And then all of a sudden, you're supposed to have world-class security that beats Citibank's security. Exactly. And three months ago, we started putting this together, but we didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't anticipate a lot of what's happened. So, we're just basically doing our best to try and come up with solutions. And we are qualified credentials people need. And our credentials are online. Francisco worked at one of the largest banks in all of the United States and helped and worked behind it, worked in individual data, very sensitive high note, worked in the individual data on a daily basis. I work with some of the largest hedge funds in the world. I work with one of the biggest private corporations in the world right now to set up an exchange that's going to be $15 trillion in notional value per year. I got to do more work for them because it's been taking a lot of time.   And we're just going to be accurate and forthright on how we're doing it. And, you know, that's our proposition. With regards to service, security and credentials, we think these people are definitely credentials, but more important than that, we feel like they have a good value. And, you know, you could have someone who's really good, but, you know, when it comes to security, if they don't kind of have a solid ethical framework, then, you know, what is it worth, right? Because they can link your information just as easily. So, our sense is that these people have good values, and we like what they say, and we like how they act, and that's what we think is almost more important. And that goes for employees and people we work with, right? The other day, it's all a trust when you're dealing with people. It's like, yeah, yeah. So, I think that some of their advantages that all four of us have known each other for so long. Any other people that we have worked with this are also, we've also known for a long time. So, there's a really close connection between all of us. So, and we're all stakeholders in this too. So, yeah, I mean, security is an enormous issue, and the other issue is trust, like you say. I mean, I don't do business with anybody that I can't trust. If I see someone that, you know, is trying to swindle their way out of, you know, any little thing, I don't care what it is, I will never, ever, ever do business with them, even if they want to pay me. So, that trust is really, really important. It looks like we're out of time, but as always, we could talk for hours and hours on end, but this is a bit coin time, internet speed, everything's happening. So, I want to thank you guys. I want to thank Marwan for taking the time out of your busy lunch rush. I know they get to make special arrangements to get out of the kitchen and come and join us. It's a pleasure. And thank you guys, trade hill guys, you know, Jared, Adam, Francisco, for taking time out of your busy day. You must be swamped with everything that's happening, but we really appreciate you coming online. Take a nap, sleep for an hour, power nap, get back to it. Nice talking to you guys. All right, cheers. Thank you so much everybody for joining us. And tomorrow, 2 p.m., watch us live and join us at the Bitcoin Show. Take care.