And welcome. I'm Anthony dream Johnson founder and CEO co-founder and CEO of the red man group founder 21 convention 21 studios Today with episode 107 of the red man group the truth about trauma and chaos This would be kind of like a follow-up to last week's episode the father Hillis the fatherless rebellion a sort of Manusphere look at the current unrest protests and riots that we see around America and the world This week though we're gonna be focusing a lot more on trauma and the kind of the connection between trauma and chaos particularly trial to trauma and chaos How that plays out into adulthood? Joining me on today's show will be the one and only will to two guests both of which have been on the red man group before Both online the web show and in person at the 21 convention live events in 2019 First up we got mr. Richard granon a bloke from England and He's from Spartan life coach calm and he's on YouTube Instagram all kinds of places and Then we got mr. Ken Curry a licensed marriage and family therapist You guys know him from solid man calm and his speech will be coming out soon on 21 studios speaking of speeches Here we go Richard granon speech just came out recently from 21 convention 2019. It's free now on YouTube and the previously was a 21 university That's the psychology of complex PTSD healing trauma through philosophy Ken Curry recently put out a video that did pretty good how to get your balls back. I picked the title not Ken on that one But I think he actually mentioned that explicitly in the video and That's doing really well. You guys like that a lot and his speech will be coming out soon on 21 studios free to the world For right now, it's early and ad free at 21 university calm Which you can join with a free trial for 30 days at any time at 21 university calm Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today on this very special episode of the red man group Yeah, you bet Anthony. Thank you, Anthony So to open up the show my kind of for I haven't seen or talked to either of you online and several weeks now Both of you live in different parts of the world than me All you know, Ken, you're in America, but you're pretty far out there in Denver Whereas I'm near the beat. I'm you know 45 minutes from the beach the Atlantic Ocean out here Richard you're over in England. I think somewhere Yeah, talk to me, you know, either one of you want to go once to go first But talk to me about what you've experienced and you both live in major parts of the world I cannot live in the rural areas too much. So, you know, Ken What have you seen in Denver with the the unrest and the protests and stuff? Denver hasn't been really horrible as far as the protests seem to be Very very mild and good the way people need to protest. I think it's happening there I haven't been in a protest myself my son and his girlfriend Definitely have been spending a lot of time with that and they seem to think that it's it's going really well I think it's like I said, it's they're doing it the way that they should Not sure how that's happening, but nothing is necessarily getting blown up and all that like there's a lot of places that There's some kind of energy and element that just wants to blow shit up in our country right now and It's not really happening in Denver. Yeah Yeah, Orlando's been kind of the same. I think maybe part of that is to do the size of the city I don't know how Denver. I think it's bigger than Orlando, but neither of them are like massive and Orlando's been The most peaceful out of the Florida city is whereas Miami and Tampa have been a lot more significant Yeah Richard, you know, what's here been firsthand experience been over in England which was you know got hit by this stuff later I think about a few weeks, but it has now spread statues. I see you're falling. There's you know violence I saw cop. I saw a female cop and video in London get knocked off her horse and just totally wrecked So what have you seen over there? Where we are here I am in a little bit of a rural area called Hoy Lake That's away from Liverpool today in Liverpool. We have 7,000 demonstrators I just checked on the local news networks. Well, everything is peaceful. Well organized so far. We'll see what happens I have a lot of friends here who are ex-military and I know that they are going Uniformed to protect the war memorials and some of the statues around around Liverpool So so far so peaceful, but the potential here for A huge civil unrest is as massive. Obviously these are very very dangerous times very dangerous Yeah So next question each of you is, you know, what was your initial response when you saw this stuff unfolding?  And then as it escalated, you know day by day, okay, I think for me it was it's really interesting that There is so much energy There's just something under the surface It's kind of the iceberg thing that you had an event. There was a tip of the iceberg that people saw Then under the surface, there is something going on where there is just a hell of a lot of energy a lot of Yeah, I don't know what other word to use besides energy But everybody saw it just erupted come forward and it was intense and then it kind of calmed down But I think it's still there. There's just something there and I'm not sure really what it is I mean because it's really hard to you get so many narratives You know, what's this? What's the real story? You know, we get it would get, you know all the all the information from all kinds of different places and what do we believe and what do we know is true and but what I see is just a heck of a lot of energy and there's something going on and I haven't heard anybody really put good words to what that energy is yet and so I just know something's going on and it's not necessarily the The content or the narrative that's being put out there is actually describing what that energy is For me, I just I don't know what it is. So that for me Anthony That's what I've just been watching this thing and I know that something is so much deeper there's so much so much more going on that's at the at the at the surface or How else do you see it say it? It's kind of Yeah, I don't know how else to say that but it's just something else is going on That I don't think is being described well, but it's it's huge. It's really big. No, I agree I've never seen anything like it in my life and I have I'm not old enough to you remember the LA rides But obviously this is a lot bigger than even the LA rides at this point 1992 I think that even even what Richard's over there in England and it's moving I mean, it's going around the world something about this is just It's huge. It's big. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to comment that you know The energy that you're seeing is something I was reading the boy crisis to the day by Dr. Warren Farrell and his co-author John Gray and They mentioned something that we've seen discussed in the Manus here before although he put it more specifically So in the book they mentioned that you know testosterone easy You know a lot of testosterone is either going to be used constructively or destructively To paraphrase that quote from the book and in the manus fear We would more say like masculinity will be expressed this way It can be rarely is it going to be kind of neutral sitting around doing nothing It's going to be positive constructive and build something up or it's going to be destructive and destroy stuff including yourself, you know some cases and that is kind of spoken of the energy that you're seeing and Part of it might have to do you know talked about last week like with the lockdowns There's so much lockdowns all over the world not just America and as a result people were cooped up People who don't usually work from home like me You know most of people and no one you know what it could even do something as simple as go to the gym And lift weights, which I think would be usually pretty healthy expression of testosterone and masculinity So I just kind of came to mind with your comments about energy and stuff like that Independent of all the narratives and all the stuff Everybody's just so fucking pent up, you know, if I'm also locked down crap Yeah, I think it's bigger than the lockdown though. It's totally totally there's more more to it Yeah, that was just you're right. That was more that was kind of energy added to what's going on for sure Yeah, I don't think it helped how they get yeah, kind of I think it's that they get help set the stage for a massive forest fire, so to speak But they're still there's still something going on for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Richard. What do you got? Yeah, what was your initial response to all this man?  Yeah, I think It it it played out at the level of CPTSD And also because I spent many years teaching self-defense and control and restraint techniques spent 15 years working as a nightclub answer as you would say in the u.s. In New Zealand in Tenerife and in the uk So and I also worked when I was running street fight secrets.com with a lot of American law enforcement the air marshals And sometimes even special forces and so I watched this play out and I was thinking wow This is really for me like the last sort of 15 years coming together in one Iconic incident which I think was traumatizing for everybody to see and being forced I'm speaking metaphorically in the way that psychologists speak. We were forced Into an observer position a passive impotent observer position Whilst one man slowly Knee garotted asphyxiated another man, and it's very traumatic to sit and watch that And not be able to stop it not be able to do anything And I think there's a there's a mass Response trauma to that there is the lockdown repression of of libidinous energy for sure And there seems to be a general sense that We have had the jackboot on our faces for too long.   Like what what is this? I do I do think there's a genuine Possibility here. There's an opportunity for some real positive changes that are absolutely necessary But the hysteria of the response concerns me greatly the narrative drift respond Concerns me greatly and the hyper normalization by authorities of new patterns of behavior Concerns me most of all 2020 is a year of hyper normalization right now You can say that you're going to tear down a war memorial or smash a war memorial or tear down a statue And go and do it you can take over parts of the city and go and do it and I'm thinking why How did we get here so so very quickly? It's uh, it's it's it's too fast And people think we're in a situation an atmosphere now where if I say hang on guys I'm immediately going to be stoned in the town square because This means I'm on the other side and I'm like can I just not be on any side? Is that can we can we think outside of black and white binary thinking? Well, that's been that's been taken away from you know, you're not allowed to think that silence Silence is violence or something like that. That's right So this is a classic ptsd response catastrophizing binary thinking and reducing everything into the most infantile terms um Which I don't think people people think they're on a pure journey to go in one direction And I'm like nothing in life works like that that journey that you thrust yourself towards typically Ends up being the opposite of what you were looking for. That's just human nature. That's just like the law of opposites It just works that way. So, uh, I'm very concerned very very concerned. Yeah Yeah, that's a common theme I've seen I've seen among basically all the speakers. I talked to I don't talk to literally every speaker ever from 21 convention Uh, consistently, but I talked to a pretty big group of you know, you guys um through the groups and individually and stuff like that and I've never seen Uh, well rarely would would you ever see the speakers? You know leaders, you guys are all have your own your own followings your own Life's work and path that you're on at a pretty high level and I've I've never really seen or it's really rare that I see you guys Uh, unanimously saying that you're really concerned In different ways, you know about what you're seeing about the future of the west about the future of america the future of england Uh, it's it's dark times. You know, I saw tanner guzzi. It could maybe pull his tweets up in a second, but He mentioned, uh, although was it in public?  I mean all this really serious stuff I'll even pull it maybe a tweet in a second. I saw it was president trump just I get like one or two days ago And he's talking about, you know Basically people getting called racist who are not racist And that's a really serious term is getting devalued So I don't know do you want to either do you want to comment on the language getting thrown around right now? Um in terms of the hysteria in terms of the bullying in terms of the the binary thinking Uh, where the minute someone rejects what you know, these people protest think this I don't agree. I did for whatever reason instantly the language, you know The language is pretty is almost as bad as the violence, right? No, it's not the same thing, but You know, uh get his like cop car blowing up But it seems like really serious to certain these terms around so loosely whereas, you know, it's not normal I grew up and if you got called racist, you know, or you called someone racist It was a serious accusation Now it seems to have been cheapened to to nothing like junk food So Anthony my head goes to the whole idea of the it's the narrative that's being told You're asking about what how the words are being used and all this and if you remember in my in the speech that I did give last Gosh, when was that last time is going so crazy. It's like warped right now um, yeah, the whole idea of um, if you remember, um Uh the word authority Um, I used that that word and I broke it down a little bit and just said the first part of the word is author And so in a sense In a pretty clear sense what's happening right now is the the people that are telling the story Whoever has the the power of the narrative Has the authority And and so the language that's being tossed around it's not just words. It's a story. It's a narrative and that story, um is being told in a certain way and tons of people will believe that story And then it's you're just seeing it play out where the people that how own the narrative have the authority Yeah Yeah, it's it feels really dangerous too, you know Like uh, we could get into it. There's all kinds of conspiracy theories going around stuff, but it really does feel alarming Um, I'm sure you guys have seen that gone with the wind was just banned from hbo Uh, and it's like, you know, that's a movie from what the 1940s It's one of the most famous movies of all time Banned books getting banned movies getting banned I mean, these are things that you saw before before the rise of nazi germany before the third rike roads in germany And these and these are the same people basically book burning who are screaming at everyone else to be a nazi With I mean the level of projection, you know, even with the antifa these people are basically communist fascists And they're screaming that they're anti-fascists.  So this Yeah, one of the most concerning things to me.  They'll you know, get you fired from your job and everything like that So can you guys shift gears a little bit can you talk to me about childhood trauma? Richard, this is more your focus than can can you focus obviously more on family therapy and Our relationships and masculinity. You have your books actually right here pulled up But talk to me about the connection you see, you know from You know trauma specifically in growing up with children, you know children growing up And then what you're seeing are now in the streets flipping cars this energy this chaos Because a lot of people I haven't really seen that discussed actually in the wider narrative of all this It doesn't fit the narrative, you know, it's probably the reason why But you know, what is the connection there? I mean, because when I see these kids in the street white black or whatever I don't see children that grew up in a healthy happy home.  Maybe they didn't have a father.  Um, the, um, I just wanted to Go back a little bit because it's relevant. You said about the violence and you drew the distinction between Physical violence and linguistic and emotional violence.  And you're not wrong to compare this to Nazi Germany This is how it was done. This is what happened when Serbia invaded the Bosnians on the on and committed genocide on the basis of Um, historical grievance that went back 300 years ago They wanted to kill them because of something the Ottoman Empire had done and they used that as a justification Based on a victim narrative, which psychopaths always do. They always rely on a victim put narrative When it comes to, uh, deleting history and deleting, uh, books, uh, but the Nazis were the book burners But it was Joe Stalin who was the deleter of history. It was Joe Stalin who was tearing down, uh, statues and monuments So we see the horseshoe theory in action here When you go far enough left and far enough right you veer towards authoritarianism and away from libertarianism You veer towards statehood So the homies at this point far right far left They're barely distinguishable. They're both fascists to the extent that they're saying do as we say or will hurt you Which is the the universally agreed, uh, definition of what fascism is it's hard for historians to define it properly But that's the universally agreed definition.   They're all for higher authority And this is where I've come to the point where I go I don't believe the narratives in this wider escapade that we're in I think it's a power struggle and I think it's an ancient power struggle and everything else is just an excuse People are being used at this point. They're being used.  Every revolution needs useful idiots Yeah, I think the thing, Richard, that really hits me on that as the whole, you're the word othering You know, talking about other people being different and that to me, I'm old school and I learned about racism It was thinking of someone else or another race as less than And that was pretty much what it was, pretty much othering or dehumanizing Seeing a person as less than human. And I think the, you know, and it's true that the United States Or at least when we became a colony was built on dehumanizing certain people groups I think the indigenous people of North America were seen as less than human like savages And then of course slaves were seen as less than human. And so to your point, then we can do whatever we want to you Because you are less than human. And I think that's the key feature of this whole thing is, you know, whatever that you said grievances that go back thousands of years That people still hold in their collective psyche or however it's held, it's there And I think we've made huge strides as a country to be able to shift from dehumanizing But there are a ton of elements still where we dehumanize human beings And I think that's at the core of what we're wanting to shift from I think this we're in the middle of a gigantic system change And unfortunately I don't think people have a vision for where that change is going I think that's where we're fearful, you know, where is this going But I think if we do make one change that's going to be significantly powerful is to really get to a point where we don't dehumanize or otherwise anybody Yeah, I pulled up that tweet from Trump. It was the White House tweet and then he retweeted it, but it was a quote from him You know, we have to work together to confront bigotry and prejudice wherever they appear, but we'll make no progress and heal no wounds By falsely labeling tens of millions of decent Americans as racist And this speaks, I think, exactly to what you guys are talking about. It's dehumanizing people by calling them racist and all this stuff And I see so much connection between over the past 10 years, for example, with this and feminism The dehumanizing of men, boys and fathers In fact, on the Black Lives Matter website, Paul Elum pulled a quote from it They talk about dismantling patriarchy, so typical feminist jargon This is directly on the main website, Black Lives Matter And then they go into kind of their vision for stuff And if you go through it, there's like no mention of men and there's explicitly no mention of fathers They talk about mothers and parents, but fathers are just omitted from the equation So it's like they talk about this stuff and then it's all, you know, feminism They've been dehumanizing men, I think, for a long time, toxic masculinity and shit like that But then now they even want to talk about, you know, Black Americans And there's no mention of Black fathers and stuff like that Actually, I saw Stéphane Maloney that the day tweeted Black Fathers Matter And I loved it, immediately I was like, yes And I posted it, you know, to everywhere I could And a lot of the menace have seen respond to that pretty positively, thank God I was pretty happy to see that And I think, you know, Black Fathers do matter, and I think that's... The Black community was talking to a DDJ the other day And he was saying, I need to verify this, but apparently the Black community was targeted by feminists Much more harshly and sooner than other races in America And apparently he said, too, that the Black family The rate of intact Black families was higher than White families as recently as the 1950s Which was kind of surprising to me, and then it, of course, fell off the cliff The single motherhood hit Black community first You know, all the men in prison are from fatherless homes and things like that Yeah, wild times Can you guys talk a little more about trauma and how it affects children and what we're seeing today? I mean, a lot of what I'm seeing in the videos and the protests and the riots, especially the looting and the arson These are just grown children, they're adult children You know, for example, Richard Grannon in his speech at 21Con last year He was criticizing the blue pill, red pill, purple pill labeling that gets done The other ring and the manisphere, right? You're a blue pill, you're this, you're that Which is different from labeling ideas and concepts It's attacking people to ostracize them and to out them But Richard's response to those at the real distinction and the manisphere and everywhere should be adult child And Richard was like, adult child, and he was like very like, you know And it's a very British accent But is that what you guys see too? Like, I really don't, you know, whether these protesters are 25 or 20 or 35 or 40 Or even much older, you know, that even people like older are protesting too A lot of them seem very childlike And then it seems like, you know, the energy seems like a huge tantrum Especially when it's not peaceful anyway at least Peacefully, you know, people believe things are going to protest, that's not new But with the violence and the looting and stuff, it's like these huge tantrums people are having So is that something you guys see? Is a lot of what you see here like basically adult or grown children running around? Yeah, I'm not sure about the trauma side of things that you're talking about Maybe Rich, you could touch on that But for me, it feels like that it's on the masculinity side of things It feels like there's a lot of men, young men out there I think you could call it a tantrum But I think they're finding some kind of expression of trying to express their strength Trying to let something out that they've never been able to let out And I think in our world today, there's not a good, what do you call it? Modeling for what does a man, how does a man actually really express his power? And what is happening is being expressed as destruction or power over Rather than something that would be creative or power for someone else And I think the category of masculinity is really big in this Because young men are moving forward in a way that is, you could even call it toxic But at least it's very unhealthy and it's because they don't know what to do with it But they have something within them that they want to express and it's coming out I'm not sure how else to explain that But it feels like there's something about that with masculinity I think they need to awaken the internal And then they need to embrace the void on Amazon Yeah, Richard, you talked about... Oh yeah, totally Richard, you talked to us more about trauma and the adult child distinction You were making in your speech and how it relates to what we're saying now As far as trauma goes and personality disorder goes There's a way of generating narcissistic personality disorder in a child And it's typically, I would say, done through two pillars The child needs to be told that they are unusually wonderful Unusually special, unusually gifted And simultaneously receive a message that they are unusually awful Unusually worthless So you have this like, split, I'm angelic, I'm above all other humans And I'm simultaneously demonic and below all other humans They only ever receive love and adulation and are even seen They're only visible when performing, when doing something And so there is a trauma to spoiling a child At the same time as neglecting a child So we've got to look at, I think, where you see like... You're talking about generational trauma and the effect on the riots Because I presume if we split by age It's mainly people in there, 18 to 30, I guess I think so That's where the most energy comes from, that's where all wars are fought It's fought between, it's not fought between, you know, guys my age You know, 50, 60 year old guys, we just wouldn't bother We'd just be like, oh, let's sit down and talk it out In fact, that's what we should do, we should only have wars between old people Yeah And chatting So there is, you know, there's a dishonesty here Where we say, okay, this expression of libidinous energy Smashing things up, punching the police, doing this and that The point I'm making here is not whether it's justified or not I'm saying that when people say this is commensurate And caused by this event, this bad event Systemic racism, police brutality Particularly police brutality and systemic racism That seems to be black to white Okay, maybe, yes, let's look at that, let's look at the data But the claim that this is because of this This is one of the points that Adler would have made Is probably false, it's probably a justification As we said before, does that lock down energy Does the expression of testosterone and I in observing these riots Notice a couple of things, one is it looks very much like festival energy It looks very much, and I mean that in the, not just the modern day festivals But the old Roman festivals, you know, Saturnalia Now up is down, left is right Slaves are masters and masters become slaves In Saturnalia the Roman masters would feed their slaves They would attend their slaves The slaves could swear at them and break the rules But it was all symbolic It was all very, still within safe boundaries And I know that these riots are bad But I still would claim that they're a kind of a ceremony They're a kind of a festival and it's kind of symbolic Because we're not really embracing change You hate slavery, you hate historical slavery So you want to tear down a statue of a British slave owner Yeah fine, tear it down, fuck him, I'm a leftist I don't really care about some rich guy who could pay for a statue But let's have a conversation first kids Are you also going to throw your iPhone into the River Thames Or you're not, you're going to tear down the statue of the slave master But keep the iPhone that was made by modern slavery That's an interesting choice So how authentic is this rebellion? How authentic is this revolution? Are you sorting your own life out? Are you fit? Are you healthy? Are you making money? Are you progressing in your own life?  What are you really doing? If you really want to make change, is this the way to make it Or is this just masturbation? And for me I'm not convinced, I'm not convinced at all It looks and feels very much like a ceremony, like a festival And its purpose is egoic, it's masturbation And dishonest too you mentioned, I think yeah I thought I'd show one of my favorite authors lately I've been obsessed with is the truth shall set you free The author is Alice Miller, she's a psychotherapist from You just what? I just read that last week after you Oh yeah, yeah, fuck yeah It's from a woman named Alice Miller, she died in 2010 She was a Swiss psychotherapist for many decades Yeah, it comes to mind though, I mean so one of the things Let's talk about this, this is Sean Smith tweeted this Dr. Sean Smith, everybody knows him here, good friend of the show He tweeted this on June 11th, so just two days ago And so we're talking about honesty and all these things Sean Smith says white privilege is not an empirical fact In response to somebody basically claiming it was a fact It is social psychology's ideologically motivated interpretation of facts The real privilege comes from scolding people about privilege Doing so lets you elevate yourself above other white people By lecturing down to them And elevate yourself above non-white people by claiming the mantle of white savior Bonus points for looking sad and pentine during this maneuver Shouting white privilege is a ninja level power move, plain and simple Not being born as pretty as I am, that is a privilege We have thought He is pretty, can't deny it, he's genetically gifted in that department He's actually like a really big dude, I was really shocked when I met him Ken, you're big in real life and you look big on camera like a large man Sean, I was shocked, I was like what the fuck Anyway, but he runs out, he finishes the thread here We have to stop letting these ideologies divide us into false categories of racist and victim So a lot of this I think speaks to what you both are kind of talking about here With this honesty and things like that And the other ring and everything like that But white privilege, let's talk about that I mean this is something that this is really common in the protests They're walking around with these signs Like the biggest thing, some of the most common slogans are like black lives matter I can't breathe, no justice, no peace But white privilege is this thing too that we're seeing And we're seeing a lot of really weird shit too, a lot of squirrely shit Sean was tweeting about it as well But these very submissive, this pandering and the kneeling And like getting down in your face There's even cops like washing feet of black people and stuff I mean it's fucking weird shit So you guys talk about that a little bit Like you know white privilege I think this is not like Sean's saying is not an empirical fact I think he's 100% right I was pleasantly surprised he tweeted this and put this out Because it's very controversial right now to say that But when people scream that as a you know this Or they scream even more aggressively You know America is a white supremacist country or some shit I mean this is all like just absolute gaslighting non-factual junk Like this is so, in my opinion this is completely retarded And it's dishonest, it's false And falsehoods will not set you free They will trap you, I think into these narratives that Sean's talking about like he's saying Disabilities ideologies divide us into false categories of racist and victim So I don't know if you guys want to comment on what Sean's saying here But it really seems to speak to what we're talking about as well You know truth versus falsehood, dishonesty versus honesty I mean this is all, these are all like this you know made up, this is all made up bullshit They're basically screaming Even with the statues you know Richard you mentioned the statues getting torn down You know I do have a problem with statues getting torn down Even from people that are not contemporary looked at positively Because they're, well first of all if you deny your history or ignore it I think you're even more likely to repeat it Number one Number two you know Sorry mate, no I'm not for statues being torn down I would be open to a conversation about saying hey We have a statue here that celebrates a man who was not a nice man Should we tear it down, that's what we used to do before 2020 We'd have a conversation, now it's just tear the fucker down And I'm like oh maybe we should, maybe we should chill with that I know these things, maybe they do deserve to go I wouldn't, but with some of the statues, like around the UK There is an economic privilege, you can, for centuries you could buy status And you could be a wealthy landowner who wasn't a very nice person And then be seen on a horse in an important place And because of history it just stays there I'm not for deleting history, not at all That's Stalinism But I would be open to a conversation Like should we maybe think about getting rid of this thing I'd be open for that conversation, but tearing it down, no But having a conversation, that's what adults do I guess, and we can't have that Let's get on into that That's a good point because there seems to be this major rioting And even the protests Let's talk about this real quick This is something I wanted to tweet about, but I have not as of yet I see a major lack of responsibility and agency Even in the peaceful protesting Now I want to explain why You know, when I look at MLK and Martin Luther King I know he was, Stiffon Mollin and others have done videos on him There's a lot more history to him that were taught in school He was kind of like a communist, he had some other stuff like that But I firmly still stand behind a lot of what he said and what he stood for Judging by the content of my character, not by the color of my skin I think above all, that's an amazing statement that should echo for eternity But he also talked about wearing your Sunday best, dressing The guy wore a suit constantly, and so did And I think he really expected the people around him protesting Marching with him to do that as well Whereas today in Orlando, I saw in Orlando last week with the protesting They were in flip-flops I mean, cargo shorts and flip-flops And they're protesting about what They don't even know what they want They're dishonest half the time or clueless And then they're marching around in flip-flops It's like, it's like, it's like, it's pathetic comparatively Tanner would be ashamed, I'm sure But also I think MLK, you know, if Martin Luther King was alive today Marching on the street, I think he would be appalled And he would shut it down as fast as possible Any kind of looting and rioting and arson And we're not really seeing that So you see, when there are violent, when there are peaceful protests And then the rioting pops off, you know, three blocks down the road It's like, they don't take any responsibility Or mandate themselves to police that stuff You've seen a little bit, I've seen a little bit on video We'll spot in some Antifa douchebag Trying to bust up blocks or something And they'll take them out, you know, they get them arrested pretty quick But a lot of it, that's not happening So I think it's almost like the protesters aren't taking agency For the responsibility that comes with peaceful protesting To keep it peaceful And to make sure that you don't get weaponized and used By people like Antifa Who want to pop shit off and have all these plans anyway To burn buildings down, burn police precincts down All this really crazy stuff that we've seen, right Which is really pissing people off I don't think anyone in America opposes peaceful protesting Not that I know, even when you disagree with it Everyone seems to be very supportive of it But all this rioting and looting has been Has really alarmed people, and I think rightfully so And I think there's an agency problem with, maybe it's generational You know, surprise, surprise with feminism and shit But they don't take any agency for how they appear, for how they dress And what goes on around them Even if they're not doing it, it's like you need to keep it peaceful And I think MLK would have done that Because it's a smart thing to do, because it keeps people on your side And it's stupid to let it, you know, shit around you burn down Because now it gets associated with your movement And I don't think that's the wrong thing, the wrong viewpoint So do you guys have any comments on that, on agency and responsibility For protesting, and what goes on when that goes during those? For me, it's just a really big category with this It's kind of a paradox, here is a group of people who It's not just Black Lives Matter I think that's a, gosh, there's a whole bunch of people Who place themselves into a victim role And the victim role is a spot that does not have agency You will not be able to have power, control Be able to change things or create something new If you just have the victim posture And so, I think this opportunity right now is I think it is an opportunity I think it's an opportunity for people who have agency Who have responsibility, who take responsibility And have a vision, because we're in a spot right now This is how change happens to a system And the chaos that we're seeing is an opportunity To be able to make a change But the people who take the victim posture Will not be able to make that change And there are other people And I think people that have a vision to where Where we want to take the United States Or the world, or whatever it is Because it starts with where do I take my life And if I'm a victim in my own self Then I'm not going to have agency and responsibility for me But if I start to say I have responsibility I'm taking ownership and in a sense taking blame For what's going on in my life Then I can actually start making a change And shift into something more healthy and more productive And then from there, as I build my life It moves into my, so to speak My little kingdom of my family And I want to change my family And I want to have influence there And I can't have influence and I can't make change In my family if I'm living as a victim And it's pretty much it's not my fault And it's somebody else that's blaming I'm blaming everybody else And that posture will never create positive change In anybody But I think we're at a place where There are people who have that capability To be able to make change Gosh I feel like I'm talking in a circle But the thing about it is I think there are I mean even our conversation right here If this stimulates somebody to be able to say I have a vision for where I want change to happen Then this is what we Then people can actually make that change Something happen That would be the people that have agency The people that take responsibility The people that have a vision But it feels like this whole season of chaos That we're in right now There is no vision at all Yeah it's like Scott Adams is an author He's also the creator of the Dilbert comic strips If you guys remember that from the 90s and stuff And he's talked a lot on Twitter about He's big on Twitter And Scott Adams has talked a lot about Just kind of the messaging of Black Lives Matter And he focuses a lot on influence and psychology And stuff from that perspective And one of his big critiques is Like what do they even want Like you don't even like what is the demand What do you want And that's a lot different from past generations Of protesting and marching That had clear visions and goals You think about what MLK had He had a vision I have a dream He had it And he took us As a culture As a country To move He took us into that Moving into that space Because he had a vision Yeah there's no vision with this stuff Even with one of the common slogans No justice, no peace It's like with George Floyd I don't even think the George Floyd thing Is the biggest issue at this point They seem to be fizzling out They're focused on that Even with no justice, no peace All four officers were fired immediately One of them was arrested immediately Or almost immediately And now The justice system is working on this As far as we can tell They might fuck it up They bumped it from third degree murder to second Which that's dangerous That might actually blow up in their face And he might get off with that That's all very specific legal stuff The reality is The police officers were fired In turn or reviews of the stuff By the proper agencies The prosecution for the stuff Criminally, I mean it's like What is the no justice That is justice, these guys could go to jail Maybe even be killed or executed I don't know for the main one So that's been kind of the bizarre thing too It's like they're screaming about something That's completely It's just complete gaslighting It's like what do you want You saw a video from a cell phone Therefore you just want to execute them Judge, jury and executioner It's pathetic, man I really think the agency thing Is just lacking They don't have agency for a vision They don't have agency for the way they even appear In Orlando, like I mentioned, they were on flip flops And this is consistent garbage That we see around all the riots and stuff Richard, do you have any comments on this With agency and responsibility and victimhood? I do, you'll be surprised to know Anthony that I have many things to say I'm shocked Color me surprised Strap yourself in So Allow me to presume to synthesize One of your ideas there There's two ideas that you've presented that need to go Hand in hand Which is the mention of MLK Who is the leader Of the current movement Name me one You won't be able to because there isn't one This is When I was talking So we have the access of politics left, right But there's also authoritarianism Libertarianism Libertarianism And then there's collectivism and individualism This is a collective movement Martin Luther King was an individual With a philosophy, with a manifesto This is nothing like that There's nothing like that No manifesto, no idea It's completely reactionary Richard, are you white-splaining to me right now? Absolutely white-splaining to you And you must submit To my, that's my privilege Because I'm the colonial master of the earth Apparently So So the fact that We can't name a leader Is a problem, a big big problem No leadership No manifesto, no individualism Pure collectivism I'm going to read you the quote from Jung That I had said If the individual He was saying Jung predicted all of this to a nicety As did Nietzsche, very, very clever men Because of the move towards a technocracy Within a technocracy, a technocratic society This becomes inevitable What we're seeing now is inevitable If the individual, overwhelmed By the sense of his own puniness And impotence Should feel that his life has lost its meaning Then he is already on the road To state slavery What we're saying with these riots Is not emancipation, it's more State slavery, it's a doubling down on slavery And without knowing or wanting it Has become, it's proselyte He goes on to say Such people are very likely To gravitate toward collective Ideologies, specifically ideological Infection Mass movements and institutions Which they view as having the power That they as individuals lack You mentioned the flip-flops And people may hear that and think That's a silly point, why are we talking about MLK In a suit and these people in flip-flops Because they're slobs Their mentality is slobbish Their behaviour is slobbish What they're saying is Somebody come and fix it for me Somebody come and fix this for me Who? The people in power So do you want power To clean up your act, or do you want Mummy and Daddy to come make it better Because it can't be both And what they clearly want Is Mummy and Daddy come make it better When I said they, let me be careful Because I am speaking whilst white Which is a crime I mean all those people Who are involved, there are multiple Ethnesties, but of one Ideological infection, they think Somebody's going to come and fix it And that's why they're acting this way It is a tantrum, literally As Ken said, it's a tantrum Because why does a child tantrum? They want you It's sort of like a baby terrorism Do as I want you to do Or else I'll make this ambient noise That you will follow Until you eventually capitulate And do what we want But they're asking for more authoritarianism Not less They're asking for more state slavery Not less And they're saying okay We're oppressed by a class system Now we want We don't want to overthrow the class system We just want to be elevated within it That's the most disgusting hypocrisy And I have no time for it No time for it whatsoever Yeah, it's the oppression olympics right now I mean, that's been a thing For years that has been joked about Online with different personalities The oppression olympics I think we're just seeing at a new scale But one thing I've been thinking about too Is the feminists right now I mean, they've kind of co-opted in a lot of ways Black Lives Matter Now it has dismantled the patriarchy in it And anti-nuclear family All core tenants of modern day radical feminism So that's Very Very, very sad I think In a lot of ways The movement is just Burn it down The last two representations Is Joker in one It's Heath Ledger's Joker And Joachim Phoenix's Joker in one Some people just want to watch the world burn Why?   Educated man Yes, he had flaws and faults Like everybody else who was also a human being But you can't say that the guy Didn't work out a moral philosophy You can't say that the guy didn't work out A systemic step-by-step agenda That was a real man with vision This is not that And people will watch this and say, oh great Another white guy whinging about the riots I'm not whinging about the riots I don't think your riots are doing anything Starbucks has easily the budget To clean up after you've smashed 10,000 Starbucks It doesn't do anything You're not doing anything You're not certainly not doing what you think you're doing Anything you're actually doing is increasing the police's budget For the next 10 years We will have a more militarized police Who regularly go around with automatic weapons And in, you know, like little tanks That's what's gonna happen Yeah, I know that No, it's fine Two things One of the things I was gonna say Or I was thinking about lately too So during, you know, with all this Depression Olympics and everything that we're at the rioting And stuff we're seeing, I think the feminists are getting As much as they've co-opted Black Lives Matter and snuck in Their really toxic propaganda I think the feminists are gonna get jealous Like they want their turn Because usually feminists are at the top of the oppression And hierarchy Like we're the ultimate victims You know, women, women, women, blah, blah, blah Men are evil, fathers are useless, boys are Defective girls, right So I wonder if, and if they're I posted a meme in the day about this guy rubbing his hands Like, yeah, like the feminists are waiting their turn But I really think they're gonna It's not gonna be enough for them We talk about the left in the Not even the left really, politically But basically the intersectional Cult of feminism SJWs and all this shit, right They cannibalize each other And I wonder if the feminists are gonna turn Black Lives Matter soon Because they're no longer on the spotlight To feed the raging narcissism that they usually have I don't know if you guys have any comments on that But I really, I can't imagine feminists Are gonna put up with being second place forever Ken? No Gosh My mind goes The whole thing of what's been going on The three months before All the riots have been happening And I think a number of groups Have taken a backseat to The coronavirus And all that and all of that Has, you know, totally Just silenced So much conversation Over the last three months where We have a different conversation going on And it's interesting how quickly Things shifted To the conversation that we have now If you can call it a conversation But it's the content Of whatever's going on has totally shifted But I think to your point, Anthony, that People The oppression Olympics Or the victim Groups Have taken a huge backseat For quite a while And so how all that turns out How people come back screaming For their attention It's gonna happen That's probably Part of all this energy that's going on But I think, yeah, I think Just to be able to say There's gonna be something that's gonna Get people to Whatever group it is They're sitting on the back Burner right now And they're gonna want to be on the front burner Because that's what they do We want to be seen, we want to be heard And Right now they're just taking their turns Sitting in the backseat And they're gonna be coming forward Before you know it And how that looks like and who comes first I don't know Yeah, we're gonna find out though Richard, go ahead When COVID was in full flow I noticed And I was very happy about it Black, white, Asian Whatever you like Conspiracy theorists coming together And we were all sharing information I am a diehard conspiracy theorist And when this popped off I thought Oh yeah, they didn't like that did they They didn't like Asian people Americans of all ethnicities are joining In sort of like We don't want to be in lockdown Without proper medical evidence And that movement was growing This is a really good point There was unity in America No one liked the lockdowns pretty much You asked what my response was When this first kicked off And of course as you know I'm a recovering codependence I've never overcome my codependency My response was Gosh, I'd love to invade America now Me and a bunch of redcoats Because you just see America Unify instantly It's a militaristic nation That deals with threat External threat Internal threat gives America AIDS It doesn't cope well with internal threat External threat A bunch of Brits are coming over Trying to take their colonies back Everybody would have been So that's the Ken I was raised in a difficult family unit I was the peacekeeper child When I see the adults fighting I have this How do I sacrifice myself to That was my first instinct And as it sort of Developed Into this story I've noticed that You can sort of break everything down into Family psychology The scapegroting The gaslighting The abuse plus spoiling that leads to Narcissism of That particular generation And the thing is Where I'm lost is as I look At the where we are now And this is a sucky feeling For me because I'm not usually lost I'm going I can't see I can't actually predict the next move here On the chess board I can't see it I'm hoping it burns out What will happen next Yeah I don't think any of us can At the very beginning of this whole thing All the commercials Would seem to all have the same content Was we live in uncertain times Yeah And I think we do And I think what we're talking about You're talking about a family That this thing is a family Right now To me a really powerful part of the family Is a masculine father And when I teach Men to become Stronger within their family And have a stronger voice And it always comes back to What is your vision for your family What's your vision for your marriage And to be able to take that And I feel like this whole thing That there's no vision right now It would be amazing and maybe this is The point I was trying to get at earlier When I said somebody who has Agency and responsibility Can actually take this as an opportunity And move it toward a very healthy place In our society If we see it as a family What would it look like If really good Healthy men With a vision Was able to actually take Our society To a place that's very healthy And Yeah healthy That's the I don't know what other word I'm thinking of but Well the opposite is I think what you're saying And I think you're right is that A lot of western cultures are very sick right now It's really sick it's And it's missing a really strong Component And I think that's the thing is Men being able to have a really strong vision This is where I want to take my life This is where I want to take my family This is where I want to take my marriage This is where I want to move into my community I think that's where it starts And I think we have an incredible Opportunity for men To really take that Take the reins and say this is where I want it to go And start to do that in my little Microcosm My little sphere of influence And the more men do that The more this society will change And become something incredibly healthy Yeah I think it's absolutely necessary In the future without Strong families and without father led families And that has all been dissipated In the west at least in America And I think we're seeing the results of that now Like eventually there was going to be Some match was going to get lit And some forest fire of a protest Was going to get going And I think we're seeing that play out in real life now Across all western nations not even just America obviously at this point Even Canada there's stuff going on now And I think just in Trudeau This year was saying Canada's Systemically racist or something I think that's a delusional That's a delusional claim for America Never mind Canada Parties in blackface He's got a fucking nerve on him Parties in blackface I think he can sit down and shut the fuck You mentioned feminism And the BLM movement And I got lost Being more tuned into the Black conspiracy speakers Who had never listened to before Before COVID-19 we're all just sharing So then when they When they started talking about COVID I've seen a lot Of very overt rejection Of any kind of authoritarianism That comes from white women And particularly feminist white women Of a certain age Usually referred to as Karen's They are not going to sit side by side There's just I just don't think The black lives matter Whoever's in charge of it Sure But the people they rely on To fuel it Young black men Are not going to put up with feminism And they're not going to be told what to do By a bunch of radical leftist white women There's just no way Just no way So I wanted to shift gears a little bit again I mentioned this earlier But I want to make sure we hit it For wrapping up the show later You know Derek Shubb and the officer With the George Floyd thing Putting his knee and George Floyd's neck And then George Floyd dying I haven't seen anyone yet talk About personality disorders And with this guy Like we mentioned that doesn't fit the narrative I think But do you guys have Opinions on that? Like I saw Sean Smith commented about it But I couldn't find it again But he's definitely on his Twitter somewhere But this guy definitely comes off to me Like this guy has some crazy eyes going on man In my opinion Some other stuff too But do you guys see Do you see in a non-legally Binding opinion Do you see a cluster B personality disorder in this guy? I mean because he also It's not just him this one incident This guy has a really long rap sheet Over a long career in law enforcement With complaints Like actual abusive complaints So a pattern of behavior So I think this is a At some point you know psychology today Or somebody will start talking about this Maybe Sean will But I do see like probably a cluster B personality disorder Certainly symptoms of it in this guy Low empathy of behavior Even in the presence of someone Begging for their life and you know Indicating they can't breathe and stuff So you guys have any comments on that And basically cluster B Personality disorders Particularly as it relates to you know Probably the most commonly accepted Theory of personality disorders today Especially predatory ones Or dramatic ones in cluster B Is that it's a mixture of nature and nurture So maybe nature sets the stage And then nurture pulls the trigger So maybe a child is born with maybe A genetic component that predisposes them To becoming a psychopath or sociopath Then their parents beat the shit out of them Abuse them and neglect them And all of a sudden in their 20s and 30s or whatever They're a very abusive people They're abusive in relationships They're abusive in their workplace Whether they're a cop or whatever they do So I kind of want to talk about that a little bit Also right off the bat too You know Richard Grandin was big He introduced me to the concept of complex PTSD And this is a book that Richard did not write But is a big promoter of And it's been life changing For me to understand this And to look at complex PTSD So do you guys have any more comments on that On personality disorders Particularly with this officer And childhood trauma As it relates to these things Cause one of the things you know we see in the mantisphere Is like oh everybody's a train of fucked up childhood Like suck it up, walk it off Like it's not a big deal Oh yeah and I'm sure they all work very well Yeah, yeah So I know it's a lot I just threw at you guys But personality disorders Trauma, you know walk it off man It's just you got spanked You got the crap kicked out of you Shut up man Be a man bro Wrong one Floor's open on that one to both of you Oh okay Here's the thing so my training Expertise and all that is not on Diagnosing any kind of disorders Personality disorders and all that I come from the more of the family systems Type of thing background But when I think of the whole thing Of even with this as a Let's say the family system of that Police force it's like It's a family and I think Probably the most dramatic thing is that Somehow the family kept him On the beat kept him out On the street and however that Happened you know Whether it's the union or whether It's something That's a really significant thing Where he was unable to be Held accountable and Whether it was him because Anybody knows this Who grows up in a family with a Narcissistic parent or Somebody that you Lose yourself You lose your voice as a child In that family And so you think about The three other officers That were standing right there And they had probably been with this Guy and they knew we can't speak Up we can't say no To this guy And they probably felt like they Had no voice within that little System right there Derek was also the senior officer All three of them were pretty new I think a few weeks or a few months on the police force Two of them were very new I think The point is they Lose their voice And that's the thing is That's a major problem When you're interacting with someone Who has that kind of Personality it's like The people around there lose their voice It's Yeah and it's really difficult to Speak up for sure Yeah Richard do you see Derek When I look at Derek I see an abused child Most likely he grew up into A violent adult with low empathy Yeah he's a Clearly a sadistic narcissistic psychopath Everything that we've heard about him And know about him indicates that I just I remember something that you said Before I just want to drop a comment about Operational procedure The three of us were on a review board For Behavior during arrests And we're trying to ascertain the use of Unreasonable force Whether it results in somebody having a broken finger Or dying The correct thing to have done Upon viewing that video for the three of us I think would have been to say Arrest all those men So we may inquire because that's murder You have to treat the police under those circumstances They don't get special They don't get a special treatment We can't have that, you can't have two tears of the law Murder is murder I'm not saying arrest them and throw them all in jail I'm saying you must arrest them So that they can be interrogated So that there can be a trial Maybe they'd be set free or not The fact that the Imagine where the judicial board Said fire them That was a failing and that Is the legitimate complaint That in my humble opinion The guy should have been arrested And then there should have been an inquiry And I think nobody is saying Derrick doesn't belong in the inside Of a cell for what he's done The fact he got away with it for so long Further indicates Either a very, as Ken says A lax attitude in the family Or simply a total systemic failure The guy isn't representing Our force well He's not building bridges in the community He's not winning hearts and minds We kind of afford to be Sticking people in prison all the time Or can we? Is there an agenda To stick people in prison? There's a whole conversation we need to have here About the private prison complex That you have in America That must be abolished If I was going to put forward a manifesto For things moving forward There needs to be a change in the review boards There must be a change in police training There has to be The problem with the states It is one country But some states are great with their training Some states are not Some states are good and then the towns Within the states are not We must improve the training We must improve the review process And I think we have to be saying The prison industrial complex Of having quotas to fill prisons Gotta go The idea that police arrest quotas It's gotta go Because if the three of us were cops And we had a quota to fill We'd fucking find a way to fill it They have all kinds of squirrelly shit They have citation quotas too And tickets and it's really stupid Bullshit. We can't have that And I always say to people This goes back to when I used to teach self defense There was a dreadful video of a A young American soldier, maybe 22 In Iraq and he picks up a puppy And he throws it into a ravine And of course because it's a dog People went crazy, they weren't concerned Torture and suffering that went on But a little puppy thrown into a ravine And everybody was bashing him online And I was like, but do you know what it's like To be in that environment Anthony you mentioned the psychopath gene I would say yes But what's the psychopath gene It's called being a human We are savage beings All of us are three days away From full blown psychopathy Three days of no food Three days of war Real violence will all turn completely psychopathic You switch off your emotions Kill or be killed, no problem It's a stress response It's a PTSD response So I think there's We need to sort of In my utopian view Encourage a sort of an understanding Between the police and the communities You don't want a combative relationship Because as humans we'll justify it Because as we said before We're other rising We'll give us nice decent people Six months in an environment like that We won't be so nice Because we'll be spat on every day Threatened every day and fearful of being shot That's a really good point that I I'm glad you brought up Yeah, there is a lot of Even the piece of protesting There's a lot of combativeness to it Even if it doesn't end up Throwing bottles and shit like that Never mind the rioting and stuff But a lot of screaming at these cops Throwing water bottles at them And shit frozen or not And then it's abolished the police Defund the police and the police It's like whoa I mean it's interesting too Because of course there's videos of people saying that And then five seconds later Literally they're screaming call 911 Call 911 Because some random dude gets out of his car I saw one guy out of his car with a chainsaw Some Mexican guy or something And he's screaming and he's like go home And they're like call 911 call the police Call the police And 30 seconds earlier They were like abolished the police Because they're statists and they're cowards And they're spineless so they don't They don't really have an idea They're asking to be given something They're not trying to work for something These people don't understand, Ken said it before You've got to invite blame You've got to take the blame for stuff There's no such thing as a right without a responsibility A right without a responsibility Is called a privilege So if you're asking for rights with no responsibilities You're saying with the white privilege thing Not white privilege is bad All privilege is bad, you're saying I'm jealous of your privilege I'd like a slice of that pie It's this sort of, you said Squirrely before, squirrely Backdoor effort to climb up the dominance hierarchy That I really don't like because it just smacks Of hypocrisy It sucks man, yeah the privilege It's all, you know, I ran I ran this big on this back in the 70s, 60s and 70s A lot of what you saw with feminism For example, was not, had nothing to do With women's rights, had everything to do with Special handouts, special privileges You know, gimme, gimme, gimme You mentioned rights and responsibilities Richard That's my main criticism of women getting to vote In America, is it was the death of Rights and responsibility, of the equality Between rights and responsibilities You all of a sudden gave half the population Before men by the way even had Universities right to vote Women get this right, this right, so called Right to vote with no obligation No responsibility to be drafted into military A hundred years later They're finally, you know, a federal Judge like last year was talking, was Ruling on this somehow, it's still not You know, done or anything, but I think that was, that was a big fuck up I think women in America got the right to vote Not a right, but they got a privilege to vote Without an associated responsibility So they got that right and Which I believe people should be treated equally before the law But from day one, it hasn't been that I, you know, me and my little brother Are still subject to selective service In military draft, my two sisters Are not, and they never have been And it's like, this is not equality From day one feminism has fucked that up Are they not shoved into factories In World War II, that's what we did With British women, they were forced into Basically slave labor, but they're not I don't think they were forced, I know a lot of women did A lot of women took a lot of pride in it A lot of grandmothers and stuff that The dream was working, you know Yeah, but no, it's the rights And responsibilities, that's a great point There has to be an association between the two And when you disconnect them You get problems, and I think Women today voting, they've never Whenever they vote for presidential candidate In America, they're never thinking First hand about going to war They're never thinking about They can think abstractly about it My brother, my father, my husband might go to war My son, but never is it first hand They never have, when they vote Same thing about the politicians, they're not fucking going to war Either the cheeky cons That's right, that's right But if they were a man at some point In their life, they were at risk of going To war by force And women in America Have never had that problem, they've never had that risk I know young... George W. Bush Yeah Captain of the day reading team I've seen women in America The millennial men that aren't Even aware that a military draft still exists In America, my age 29, 30 years old, no idea Just oblivious, and it just reminds me a lot Of what you're saying with the privilege and stuff Gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme And then abolish, abolish, abolish Wait, wait, come back, don't be abolished Call 911, call 911 It's just nuts, man Where did I want to go with this? Oh yeah, so this is actually an interesting comment That we got pulled up here So this guy's commenting, so we can See for the murderer, but not for the people Repeatedly targeted to be murdered, abused, and locked up More than any other race So my first thought about this Before you guys, if you want to hop in on this You know, Derek Chauvin is responsible From saying his name right Is responsible for his actions as an adult Whether he's a psychopath, a sociopath Has a personality disorder, is mentally ill None of that alleviates responsibility From his actions, especially as a police officer And law enforcement officer with a sworn oath To the constitution of the state As well as the federal constitution So I believe Sincerely in my completely Informal opinion, he is fucked up in the head He would probably meet the criteria For psychopathy or something similar to it In the DSM, in actual Literature and stuff But he's responsible for His actions as an adult And he's responsible for healing from it too So if he was, let's say it comes out Years from now, that he was abused And beaten the shit out of as a kid That's very unfortunate, that's not his fault He was a victim of child abuse And stuff like that, beating But it was his responsibility as an adult to heal from that And if you don't, and you traumatize With the people, and in his case, kill someone Or get someone killed or whatever, manslaughter That's still on him, no matter what The rest of this question, I don't know if you guys Want to hop into this or not But yeah, there's plenty of abuse to go around I mean everybody, you know All these guys that ended up in prison and stuff They come from broken homes, they come from fatherless homes Or they come from a single mother home Where there's single mother, I think there's a lot of stats on this But single mothers are very abusive towards their children They're impulsive and emotional And they spank without mercy There's even some famous quotes I think that What was the quote?  I do, but I will shut the fuck up for a minute Can, please Anthony, you're kind of pushing down I think part of this was You're saying That Chauvin is Totally responsible for his actions I think that's not It's not the PTSD I think for anybody The whole idea of If you've been through any abuse The statement The abuse is not your fault But healing from it Is your responsibility And I think if you get to a spot Where you are continuing It goes back to that whole thing Of just having that victim posture And if I always see myself As a victim of abuse Then I'm not going to be able to have the power To be able to heal And to be able to take responsibility For me being different in my life And that's part of what I think people get stuck And the officer who did this Most likely got He never really did any healing If it does turn out that he has The PTSD Or the childhood trauma or whatever You know It's his responsibility And so I'm not sure exactly Where the question comes From but Yeah, the question I think it always It always comes back to Even if these things happen to me Even if I am abused What am I going to do about it And it's not asking the word You know Why did this happen to me That's the victim's question But what am I going to do in my life Or how am I going to move through this That's a man This agency And moving forward is what we want to be able to do And gosh I know there's so much more To that question He followed up He posted a follow up of this The source of stress black people get from the police I mean that's now getting into systemic Police bias and stuff like that Which in my understanding doesn't exist in America In spite of the hysteria right now In terms of stats and numbers And stuff like that The thing is he He's going to interrupt you Anthony But he's talking about something that Is real For what black people feel And the best illustration I've heard that Is you know I'm sitting here I don't understand that because I'm not a black man And the best illustration is Is that when my wife had a baby And we have three kids And I'm standing there in the delivery room With her I have no idea What it feels like To deliver a baby This empathy I feel for her But I don't understand what it is And for that Statement the whole thing of You know what black people experience I don't know I'm going to do my best To have empathy but I'm never going to know What that feels like about that What he's talking about with the stress That he gets from interacting with the police I you know I don't know how else to say that There technically I agree with you First hand there's no way to know If you're not black you can't know It's ending with being a woman You know none of us will ever know What it's like to be a woman first hand And the same is true in reverse Women will ever know what it's like to be a man To get a heart on To be a leader and to take authority And be masculine and stuff With the Stomach police racism on bias There's a lot of articles coming out And major publications that are challenging that And no one wants to hear it It is jump to conclude Mostly it's like Actually there's no There's no evidence of that And what you know it should be looked into It's a debate to be had in a discussion But the big thing is seeing people dismiss A. not present their arguments And the reasons for How they're coming to their conclusions And then B. they're just rejecting numbers and data They just don't want to hear it Even on video there's people on the streets now Going up to people saying hey look at these numbers And people just don't want to hear it They'll scream at the reporter like fuck you Fuck off, white privilege, white supremacists All this stuff And it's like a narrative that's been built And it's been installed in people's heads It's just like women with the wage gap No matter how many times that shit gets busted up By Jordan Peterson Or Christina Hoffsummers Or anyone else on YouTube and stuff No one wants to hear it You just keep hearing wage gap, wage gap, wage gap And there's no evidence of it It doesn't exist I have something to say Yes, sir You have the ability to mute me at any point Don't you, Anthony? I would never, I would never I am anti-fascist I am anti-fascist Legitimately So if you could put the young gentleman's question Back up on the screen The first one? Simply marvinist TV So here is a young black man From his icon, from his avatar Looking at three white men Talking about Derrick And talking about CPTSD And he sat there and he's thinking Are these three white guys Justifying the trauma And the pain of a white man That causes him to kill a black man Whilst ignoring the trauma And the pain that causes people to riot Because we've been saying That neither of us is particularly keen On the rioting as a response But I think you guys have addressed it Like, no, we're saying He does have complex PTSD But he's responsible for healing his own complex PTSD I do think In my humble opinion And in my observations There is a case to be made That black people have been treated Poorly, certainly in America And to a certain degree In the United Kingdom as well There has been scapegoating within the American family There has been gaslighting within the American family But Despite that To reiterate what Ken said There is this thing called a drama triangle Where you're victim, abuser or rescuer It comes from transactional analysis And when we get stuck in victim mode We can only wait For a rescuer to come and save us And if Black America Whatever that amorphous mass may be Or may not be Is waiting for white America to come and save them This is not the right mentality And I'm saying that with my stupid White face, I've never been black I don't know what it's like to be black But I can say as a psychologist To understand human beings We can't stop there Yes, I think there is legitimate grievance I think black people have stopped more than white people I think that there is evidence That Certainly within the prison Industry Blacks and Hispanics and minorities Are targeted more than white There are statistics that Back that But So what are we going to do with that How do we get out of that How do we escape that Are we going to ask for Systemic change from the person Who's pressing the jack boot down I think that's a mistake My friends, I really, really do If you say Make it better for me I just do not believe it's going to happen The recovery from complex PTSD means recovering from co-dependency As well We've got a reclaim sovereignty, reclaim agency And Give up a lot of the ideas of Vengeance, you know, because let's be honest There is a desire for vengeance here And I think it's justified I would be angry too I would be fucking furious as well For historical reasons And for current reasons There is a legitimate grievance Hang on, let's talk about the history Because in America One of the comments I've seen From a lot of people, black and white Is that anybody who is angry about history That's pretty ancient at this point You are not a victim Of that period Like you did not live during that time Your parents didn't live during that time Your grandparents didn't live during that time You were not Like this did not happen to you You were not enslaved You know, it doesn't mean Things are perfect today, if not by any means But it's like these people looking back It's like these people have no purpose And no meaning in their life And they're just grappling in ancient history To latch on to something to feel important Like the victim oppression Olympics and stuff like that And slavery has been done by You know, for example In America, for example, too The CEO I think of BET, like a major television network Calling for $14 trillion in reparations The other day And like this from Ancient, you know, offenses That happened over a century ago And that have happened In every direction throughout history There are still millions of people today To my knowledge enslaved in Africa Like literal modern day slavery I don't know how many millions Absolutely there are We're going to go into the history Why are we not talking about where That comes from, that comes from the slabs Why are we not talking about The history of slavery everywhere else Okay, fine, the way that I think that you get Past this historical trauma Is you kind of have to eat the hot All thing and you have to digest it Slavery in America With the help of Of the Brits Was and African Muslims Was African Muslims that helped To acquire the black animist On Muslim slaves It was a uniquely horrendous experience We don't have anything else in recorded history That matches That So it's unique It's unique suffering So now what Are we going to What do you want to do Like what needs If this was therapy And I was talking to an individual You can always work with individuals What needs to happen For you to move forward from that What needs to happen for you to feel okay And if the answer comes back Reparations or Or something like that, I just I'm very very against That kind of movement Because it corrupts both sides Is there a solution in the middle You guys are Americans, I'm not American I'm an outsider, do you guys think there's a solution In the middle where an effort is made To uplift some of these communities So that's Absolutely not, in my opinion Affirmative action, for example, has been in America For decades and it's absolutely racist And it hurts white people in particular Because it's special privileges It's basically, for example, with colleges It's giving people access to college things Not on the basis of merit But on the basis of race Is there another option other than affirmative action Which I don't like either Well, you know People who are not victims English people who were not The abusers Is just delusional It's beyond delusion, it's our well-being I didn't enslave people, my parents didn't enslave people My grandparents didn't enslave people My grandparents were from You know, Croatia and stuff, in Norway Even if they were You know, original American Revolutionaries and stuff This is all like just absolutely When is it, like there's no end to it The minute you open that door, there's no end to it And that's why I think people are really alarmed right now They're saying like this basically Like a Marxist revolution Trying to hide behind You know, race relations and things like this It's really creepy stuff, man Reparations, I think, is a really Fantastic example of that Like it's just totally fucked up I talked to a friend of the day Who's in the active military In the United States And his parents are Italian His history is Italian Like South America And he's like, I'm not fucking paying for this shit He doesn't want to see anyone pay for it But he's like, I'm a taxpayer He's fucking delusional So that's my thoughts on it Ken, would you like to walk through the minefield? Are you telling me that silence is violence? Violence is consent And consent is They have that consent thing too That's me I'm just listening I'm going, this is a minefield It's all really well put with that But I think going back To what we were talking about Richard, you were talking about The whole thing of this thing being a collective How does a collective take responsibility For change And I think we're saying That it's not going to happen And I think It's change So you said this, you were saying If we were sitting in a therapy office It would be an individual What's your responsibility for making a difference And changing how you roll And changing what you believe And changing your behavior And changing Making the changes within Becoming less codependent Or whatever it is There's so many different avenues To become stronger as a person And I have to take that Where change The only place to change can happen Is individuals choosing I'm going to be different I'm going to not be a victim I'm going to take Responsibility and make a difference For my life And then in my community I can actually have that influence To where I would help other people To make those changes as well And it's taking ownership And being able to say Where I'm going This is where I would love for my family to go This is where I would love for my community to go And making that kind of change I don't see any other place Where change is going to happen Because the system right now Is You were just talking about Preparations That's just like the same system Of the rescuers here To give me more money And they're the ones that are going to help me out And that's never going to equate Into True valuable change For any individual or any Community at all Go ahead Richard I was just going to say If I'm sat here thinking about it I'm not a politician sadly Or an economist If race was taken out of the equation Is there any effort That can be made to help people To be deprived of their areas Because we talk about making change For yourself and getting out of say The projects or the roughest areas Of Liverpool down the road here Where people still work on medieval diseases And gingivitis it's rough They're all white but I look at that and I'm like how do you Just tell them they have white privilege Then we'll fix all that But if your dad's an alkie Your mum is Dealing drugs I can't hear what happens with the kids in school Mums working on the size of prostitutes And a drug dealer Dad's off, there's dangerous men in the house You have to go outside the house There's kids in schools I used to work around here I'd be like why are you tired I didn't get to bed until three Why? You're on street corners waiting to stab people No more mum throws me out until three in the morning And then I'm allowed to sleep with my brother In the same bed until This kind of economic deprivation Where you think geniuses Have them every day in these Is there anything, anything we can do Anything you guys, I mean I don't know I'm just putting it out there Is there anything that can be done for people Let me throw a grenade into a minefield Why would you do that When I see red flags I like them on fire So There we go So this came out a couple days ago The governor of Kentucky, the state in America Wants to ensure that health coverage Of black residents Legally, not like some I'm going to personally support it as governor But like through the state And this to me So what I want to get at is I have a very radical proposition to what you're saying Richard, and the proposition is To treat everyone equally before the law And that means ending affirmative action Ending special privileges For any race or anything, minority Or anything like that All that needs to end It's, for example There's a lot of economists that will tell you And they'll write about in their opinion That welfare and things like that They actually keep people trapped in poverty This is true for single mothers This is stuff they get, this is true for minorities And stuff, anyone, regardless of what your race is You're getting wealth that you didn't earn And wealth, unearned wealth In my opinion destroys you Lottery winners are an extreme example of this Lottery winners consistently go bankrupt They get addicted to drugs, they ruin their lives After getting millions of dollars They just blow, they detonate, they self-destruct So I mean there's an empathetic Compassionate push to help people Who are in Lower socioeconomic demographics And stuff, but I think you have to be Very, very careful about all that Because the many you treat people unequally before the law The many you dish out and dole out Any kind of, especially the government I'm saying, charities and nonprofits I mean all day long, let's do it Weaponized government, which is an agent of force George Washington, you know, described it as Like a fire Fire, it can help you, it can cook your food Or it can burn your house down So I think all of it is very dangerous And really people need freedom They need liberty, they need, especially You know I was going to say, I ran on a philosopher Who was famous for saying that The smallest minority on earth is the individual Not any group or race or demographic It's the individual And what individuals need is their personal responsibility Of themselves, and they need liberty They need freedom that is protected by the government And that means equal treatment before the law For men, women, white, black, Asian, everyone And in America The more people get roped I think into logical fallacies And emotional, impulsive thinking The more they want to do all this stuff, they panic I think what's going on right now is You know, the riots are a form of panicking This frantic energy flipping over cars And throwing bottles and shit and fighting with police And spinning on people, abolishing police It's all this frantic, unhinged energy in my opinion And it's not just going to solve anything This is because of a lot of reasons The lack of agency, personal responsibility Self-improvement Trying to get, like you're saying, Richard I think Ken was talking about this too Stuff from people you claim are your oppressors Like this victim, rescuer, narrative So it's all A lot of it's well-intentioned, but man So much of it's a toxic whirlwind of stuff right now And if you want to see people do well You need to give them freedom You need to protect their freedom You need to treat them equally before the law And not treat them negatively before the law Or positively, both of those are harmful And eventually those consequences will reach everyone Whether it's through Marxist revolution And book burning and all kinds of weird stuff Or other things too Those are my thoughts That I'll probably get flamed for on the internet But whatever I don't know if you guys have any responses to that Or further thoughts on that Thank you One of the things The young gentleman who asked the question Before That I would want to double down on and make clear is In psychology You'll often hear people say Oh, this person has narcissism or psychopathy So therefore They're not to blame, they're not liable They're depressed, they're not liable And that exists I'm not of that view Ken I'm pretty sure you're more on the personal Responsibility side as well Obviously some people have problems They have psychotic delusions, hallucinations That's a different thing Just because you have CPTSD Doesn't mean you're not accountable In the eyes of the law So we were not saying That that justifies anything So when you extrapolate forward from that It's It's a tough one Because I would be probably I mean I have CPTSD To the point of like Suicidal ideation five or six years ago And I worked through it and I wasn't rich I was poor in Asia I was eating rotten biscuits to try and survive In Asia where you can get a full meal For five dollars very very easily I ran out of money because I was so depressed My business went to the wall I was fucked And I just think It sounds trite to say A philosophy of personal responsibility Is what you need But mate I'm talking to the young gentleman here There's nothing else in this world It's pretty hard this world It's pretty fucking hard And if you don't I don't know what else to tell you And I'm not talking to you as a white man To a black man I'm talking to you as an elder to a younger You're younger than me I can see from your picture Mate it's hard It's hard for everyone out here It's I hate saying Have a philosophy of rugged individuality It sounds trite but I don't I don't think there's anything else And I couldn't hear anything that you said before Anthony That I would disagree with I would only further qualify Would I say that everyone needs to be treated equally Before the law Including cops Including cops and George Floyd Was denied that George Floyd deserved I assume To be doing to be arrested He did not deserve to be killed He deserved due process All which was denied from him In a very explicit and abusive And horrifying way As far as we can tell from the videos And everything like that So yeah there's some major fuck ups there And a lot of that might be Union police unions doing Squirrely shit for decades The city government The mayor, the city council Like why did this guy have so many complaints For 18 years So there's a lot of Yeah so yeah everyone needs to be treated equally If we were on a security team And we had a guy like that There's no fucking way we keep him I mean you might even give him a code red Especially if you saw him doing stuff like that I mean that's what we've seen on video And that's what's been reported What else has that company been getting away with For 17 years It was a nasty piece of shit Did you want to go Ken? Yeah I was going to say something on the Because I think Anthony you were talking about A number of different issues and things And I think and I was talking About you know personal Taking personal responsibility And I think that's absolutely true That's why I'm saying it But I really do think that This does come back to How can we have an adult conversation About what's really going on With something that might be Systemic Because I do think that Richard you're kind of You're pushing in on the whole thing of the prison industry And how that actually Does have evidence that there's Something systemically racist About that system And that maybe just one category And so being able to have The adult conversation about What really is going on That I think there really are Some categories That are still there and I think that's part Of what we want to do and this is what I love About the United States is Sure it started on some Really shaky ground with like I said The dehumanization of people groups And then we shifted And changed and we're growing And we're shifting into You know The civil war happened The civil rights Things happened And we're in a new spot here And I think that's why I wish we had To be able to go this is where we're going And this is what we want And we want less racism And the thing is What we're talking about is we feel like Everybody's And the whole thing of The zeroing people out And Dehumanizing and othering because you disagree That creates a door We can't even have a conversation about any of this stuff And I think We need to have a conversation Without all the Gosh the animosity Or since you have a different opinion Or you think that it's different That we can't even talk And I think the We just need to talk Gosh what am I saying Maybe that's all I'm saying is the adult conversation Needs to happen and it's not And we can't have it because you can't have An opposing opinion You can't even have a conversation And that's probably what's And I hope we can get to a spot Where we can start at least Having a reasonable conversation About whatever it is And I'm not sure who's going to be doing that Because it's like From top to bottom It just feels insane right now Yeah there's so much hostility to an adult Conversation and free speech I mean cancel culture is kind of a work around To the first amendment Using private companies and These pressure groups to ruin people's lives We've seen that in the And now we're seeing this stuff too Banned and gone with the wind and books and stuff Yeah it's an adult conversation Rest upon a foundation of free speech And the ability to speak And to be heard People don't have An obligation to listen to you But you certainly have a right to speak To speak openly and freely I did want to make one challenge To what you said Ken The systemic racism or something I don't believe that's a case But I'm not saying that's impossible What I would say though is that You don't want to confuse correlation with causation So just because something is Majorly affecting certain groups of people Or a race that doesn't necessarily lead Racism is a very specific Concept bigoted prejudice Basically and You can't draw that conclusion automatically You have to prove your reasoning for it And I think that's where the rub is coming from Question there's a huge amount of black men And other minorities in prison For various crimes A lot of the stuff is stupid I think anyone in prison right now For nonviolent drug offense should be pardoned Immediately and everyone White, black, Asian, whatever I don't care That would depopulate the prisons Massively and I think the war on drugs is beyond stupid anyway It would demonetize them It would also demonetize the prison It would demonetize the prisons Yeah and the prison is a massive industry Yeah, totally And that does disproportionately affect Blacks and Hispanics and whatever But I don't know if that necessarily Means racism That's totally fair I'm just saying let's have the freaking conversation No, totally That's the most important thing is the conversation When that breaks down you get I mean a lot of people are worried right now I think rightfully so YouTubers like Tim Pool to speakers I know that a real civil war Could break out in America right now or in the near future And however unlikely that May be, I don't think it's impossible It's been, I was commenting to the day on Twitter It's been 155 years since we had A civil war in this country Maybe that amount of time we should be thankful for Without shooting each other I mean and also do we really expect that to go on And definitely forever I mean you know if you consider the American Revolution to civil war and many historians do Because you know Colonials Consider themselves Englishmen in a lot of cases You went how many years was that 80 years or something Between major civil wars like that 155 is pretty good And while I want to see that go on as long as it can I don't know if it's reasonable On a large scale historical perspective To expect that to go on to infinity Like literally forever Is that going to be the kind of go up in Tangier But it's been something that you know It comes to mind because of the conversation The conversation is dying and it's like what happens When the conversation is dead That's the fear that we're getting close to that That's possibly what the problem is I suspect that it's Actually that we're running out of ideas And as we've had this conversation Talking with you Tom I'm sort of seeing it a little bit differently I'm like maybe this Rush to demonstrate To riot to get to the White House This Marxist sort of And at times Stalinist effort Is because Of a lack of ideas There's no big idea That counters it The American dream for example While people aren't thinking My life's really going to be massively Upwardly mobile Even in my kids' lifetimes So if people are in despair It could be an idea issue So Marxism Is a big idea And maybe it's the big idea That counters empty space Nothingness, nihilism We can't have endless consumer capitalism That's Not going to work out We probably do need I've always said we need a revolution But this, what we're getting now Is not the revolution we need We need a revolution of ideas Not You overthrow the people who are in power So that you can be in power So the king is dead long live the king I think we need a revolution Of masculinity and femininity I really think that's what all the races Obviously share I think it's by far some of the most important concepts Of human being Is what is your experience of being human being Based on your biological sex And that's masculinity or femininity These big crises Anthony The big pandemic that caused a global lockdown My god, the war with Iran At the beginning of the year is a joke Now compared to the very immediate problems we faced Civil war on the horizon And you say that without smiling You know, it's actually a real legitimate possibility It's pain And change is always pain But I actually do think That it will herald a sexual revolution I think it's already begun I actually think So the positive I see here Is that men and women will come back to each other And that love will be back on the table Because we won't be Investing in the horseshit Of this statist idea We'll be like there's nothing out there It's an illusion, it's this Potemkin village Don't believe it anymore, let's come back To each other, yeah actually I really like women And women say, yeah actually I quite like men Let's have love back again That's on the table But at what cost Yeah, we'll put Richard I think, yeah it is coming The coronavirus I forgot, I think really pushed It really highlighted the differences Between men and women and all of a sudden You saw a lot of comments on the internet And on Twitter and blogs and stuff You know a lot of girlfriends are calling up Their ex-boyfriends all of a sudden They want to get back together All of a sudden the wife is like Stuff like that Go ahead I was just going to say beyond I hate the issue of race It's awful, it's an awful divisive topic And then you get on to another issue Like a virus that nobody can see We're unified, we get on to another issue Like love and relationship Sex, sexuality The gender dynamics We're all unified Or narcissism, CPTSD These are not racially based things That's just the human experience It's difficult to say This is a white person I feel like it's a big evil trick I feel like it's a big trick The devil plays on us that goes You're all intrinsically different Why? Because your skin colour is different I'm not denying history I'm not denying classism I'm saying it becomes There's a new word I learned You can feel like something is true And it seems to be true That's a superstition If you feel like something is true And it seems to be true And then you act as if it is true It becomes something called a hypostition And that's where I think race is up to I'm not the white guy saying Scrub it so that we don't have to deal with this problem anymore I'm saying I don't think We're going to resolve racism I think most problems in therapy Actually have to be transcended Rather than pushed against Rather than fought I was looking by the way as you're speaking With the Black Lives Matter website again What we believe And there's more comments here I didn't even see this We build a space that affirms Black women is free from sexism Misogyny and environments in which men are centred We practice empathy We engage common odds The Marxism, the Stalinist here is Explicit Even if France is Soviet Let's fucking Soviet France Jesus It's really interesting though This is very There's no mention here of course Of Miss Andrew, there's no celebration of fatherhood Fathers are not even mentioned It's all very hostile To masculinity I think this will be an issue Going forward for them To stab themselves in the foot Opposing these positive things We're just ignoring The ways that men are treated today Treated like shit The other thing I would say Within the Black conspiracy community That as I say I got connected to Because of Covid and the lockdown There's a lot of Different thoughts about the protests And the riots But there's plenty of Black people Especially in the conspiracy movement Or BLM at all Not at all In America even Black Americans represent About 13-14% of the population And I think it's over 40 million people So the amount of people Actually marching in support of it Is actually very small It's a very vocal minority And a lot of Black people are getting pissed off If you're seeing videos go viral on YouTube On Twitter a lot I saw one last night On viral Screaming about how She was criticizing Black Lives Matter Because her brother was dead Her husband was dead And they were shot by other Black people In rough neighborhoods There's a lot of The internet speeds things up But sometimes in real life there's a slow response To it and as people wake up Black people don't agree with it To have criticisms of it That's going to be interesting Even in celebrities Terry Crews is speaking out against it It's the internet Creates massive acceleration And then mass media I've never seen such Massively irresponsible reporting From the major news networks They are just flying monkeys Delivering a gaslighting message There's nothing Barely anything that's of any Nutritional sustenance Or intellectual value On the mainstream news networks So there's a real nasty Agenda here Towards division because it gives the news This dying format More content So Covid and the riots Have been great for mainstream media Prior to that we weren't watching them anymore We were bored of it Ironically though they're advertising So they got the views but not the money Really? Yeah During Covid anyway No advertising shit But that goes back to who's getting the attention And everybody's calling for attention And it's our responsibility Of who am I going to give My attention to So many people have stopped watching The whole panic porn stuff And stopped watching the news And I think to your point Richard They're realizing that this is Total misinformation on any category That the news gives us And so we're starting to go How do I actually find out What's true here? What's the real narrative Of what's going on? Because everybody's telling a story And it's up to each one of us To be able to, as best we can To discern What's the truth that's going on here Yeah in the middle of this disinformation Dishonesty storm of just chaos So I want to Kind of round the sack guys And start wrapping up Richard, do you have a comment? Simply Marvenous stuck with us So we must We must have been still saying something worthwhile Because he stuck with it. Thank you Simply Marvenous Absolutely So I kind of want to round out the show And just kind of get some final thoughts from you guys On basically the connection you see Between trauma And the chaos that we've seen Both the protest people That are legitimately peaceful But the kind of chaotic And don't have a vision or a message Or a too specific of a goal And then of course the more The violent side of it and looting and stuff So some final thoughts On trauma and chaos And CPTSD, whatever you want to spin it Yeah I'm not sure Like I said, not necessarily I'm not talking a lot about trauma And everything, but I think The whole thing of ways The ways that systems change And we're in a big huge system That creates cultures as a system And how we operate and how we roll It's just like a family system And everybody has their parts And it has a goal and it has its homeostasis And it's all Designed to keep everything running the same And but we're in this space Right now where Something's changing And the whole thing of Whether it's the coronavirus Whether it's the riots We're in this crazy spot The three words that kind of map out change Is the whole thing of you have A certain order And then it turns into disorder And then you move toward Reorder And so the whole idea of we were in an order And things were the way they are Were And now we're in this place of disorder It all depends because Richard you said Something really significant Is this just a festival? Is it just a A real deep substance And If it is something that's a deep substance Then this disorder Is actually going to help us to move into A new reorder And that's where the whole idea of vision comes What's this new reorder that we want And Who's going to actually create that And I think people are like I said There's this element that wants to blow shit up And create disorder There's a group out there that just wants to create Disorder But there's no vision for what the reorders looking like And I do think that People who have Vision People who have an idea People who have a good sense of What a healthy movement for our whole Culture would be I hope that some people Rise up Some individuals somebody who really Can lead this thing into Something that looks a hell of a lot more Healthy than where we've been Because there are parts of that That aren't healthy That aren't going well So being able to have a vision For that reorder Because we're right in the middle of disorder But I would love for something to happen It's a great opportunity for our culture It's a great opportunity For something to change Into something that's a lot I keep using the word healthy I don't know what other word to use Positive I would add Unified, positive I would say it's a great opportunity For fatherhood I think so Rich, Richie Rich By The fatherhood Masculinity Adulthood Motherhood, femininity All of it for humanity For everybody I would ask Richie to go down Just to make a point What I said before about having the festival atmosphere There's an authentic Unconscious drive I'm concerned that it gets Sublimated to use the lingo Which means translated Into the cheap Manifestation of it What I'd like to see Is the sort of channeling of that The business energy into something In a way that is disciplined And that actually has A structure Because I think some of the grievance Some of the grievances Are valuable And we've always got things done like this America is a nation Built on entrepreneurialism Rebellion And striving forward bravely into the future And it's not known For being Super polite and suave And quiet And getting shit done So maybe this initial phase Is smashing people in the face And then maybe we go Okay, what do we need to do?  I think that's a really good point Maybe a lot of the chaos And the outburst we're seeing Is in some way American It's hard to imagine Canada Having this level of chaos For example Is Canadians you? Yeah, this is a good point The country is founded not just on rebellion But violence Diplomacy and peacemaking Did not work with the king And with the parliament and stuff George Washington didn't talk The British to death he shot them I'm not advocating for violence now I don't think it's a good thing In this instance I think there's a lot of diplomacy And talking left to be had We've been talking about I wonder if you mix American culture That still I think exists With a solid couple generations Of single motherhood And feminism and stuff What are you going to get? Apparently this is what you get There's an element of rebelliousness And American culture and entrepreneurship And radicalness We're the radicals of the world With the Declaration of Independence Well known phrase in the I think in the entire world Across any language The pursuit of life, liberty And the pursuit of happiness It's an interesting point Rich That maybe what we're seeing is As uncomfortable and violent As it may be, maybe it's uniquely American For the start here anyway And then spread it on Then it just spreads everywhere Congratulations Well where does it run out the show That's been a great episode guys Episode 107 of the red man group I did want to mention that very soon Richard Granin will be having the first ever Premium workshop course on 21 University come out So that's coming out very soon It's like a 10 part video series A lot of it was filmed live at the 21 convention 2019 And then actually Richard went out and Filmed the more interviews with guest Speakers for the workshop like Sean Smith, like Jack Donovan And George Bruno So there's a lot of video content It's a full premium course on healing From complex trauma It's going to be a master class In understanding and healing from these things As a man specifically And that'll be the first ever course We host as premium exclusive to 21 U I'm excited to get that going very soon And you guys can stay tuned on YouTube And social media and stuff for that Everything else I appreciate you guys time today Directly at spartanlifecoach.com And you can find Ken Curry at solidman.com And Richard speech from 21 con just came out On 21 studios, you can check that out And kens will be out pretty soon as well On the YouTube channel And it's also the early at 21university.com So appreciate you guys time today Fuck yeah And if everyone else watching I'll see you next Saturday At 11 30 am Special guest on the show Peace out