beyond policing policy. We are committed to continuing a deeper dialogue with Remanters about that work, and we will look to you for your participation in future conversations. I thank you, and I now want to introduce Representative Sarah Copenhanz. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Grad. And I wanna thank all of you for joining us today to give input into the work in front of us in August and September. Since I will be facilitating the meeting, I wanna share a few quick expectations and logistics. This is only the second opportunity that the Vermont legislature has had to hold a virtual public hearing, and we're gonna do our best to ensure that this Zoom format gives the public, the committees, and other members of the legislature the same opportunities to participate as if we were physically present in the State House. Just as if we were in the chamber, there are members of the Judiciary and Government Operations Committee here at the Zoom table. We will call up registered participants one by one to share two minutes of testimony. As always, we're happy to have you share your written remarks if you're unable to get to all of your points in the allotted time, and you can send your written remarks to the committees via our legislative webpage for either one of the committees. And lastly, you only see panelists, as panelists here, the members of these two committees. However, there are many members of the legislature who are watching these hearings via YouTube. Now a few moments on the expectations for the hearing. We will be calling for the same decorum as if we were physically present. That means no signs or posters and profanity or abusive language will not be tolerated. Each participant is asked to identify themselves via Zoom, and I will call each witness at one at a time and queue up the next person who's on deck so they can be prepared. When it is your turn to speak, staff will move you from attendee into the virtual witness seat, where you will be able to see the rest of the committees as panelists. You'll have two minutes to speak, and for those of you who are in the Zoom meeting, you'll be able to see the timer in one of your Zoom tiles. For those of you who are calling in, we'll do our best to be sure you hear when your time is nearly up by giving you a reminder, when you have 30 seconds and another at 10 seconds. You will then be moved back into the attendees gallery and we'll call up the next witness. You're welcome to continue watching the rest of the hearing from the attendee gallery or you can hang up from Zoom and watch the rest of the hearing on YouTube. For technical reasons, it's best if you don't try to do both. As each of you are moved into the witness chair, I will welcome you by saying thank you for being here. We'll begin the timer when you start your remarks. Go ahead when you're ready. And as I mentioned before, this is groundbreaking territory for us. We're just now learning how to use this format for public hearings. But the urgency of this moment asks us to chart new waters because regardless of the global pandemic, it's critical that we must bring Vermonters together to hear and understand each other on these important policy issues. And with that, I wanna thank you for being with us today and welcome you to watch the final public hearing which will occur on August 16th. So now I would like to call up the first witness and ask that the second witness begin to prepare. So William Dunkley of Westford can join us and Megan Browning of Moncton, you will be on deck. Thank you for being with us. Welcome Will and go ahead whenever you're ready. All right, thank you very much. I urge the Vermont legislature to holistically address systemic racism in Vermont. Systemic racism is the cause of racial inequity in our society and Vermont. Vermont needs to dismantle systemic racism in a way that dismantles systems of oppression and creates opportunities for BIPOC people. I urge you to look toward the Vermont racial justice lines legislative priorities. And these include providing COVID-19 target relief for black, indigenous, and other people of color. Enable economic development and empowerment for BIPOC people in Vermont. Fund a statewide database to track racial disparities to inform transformative data-driven solutions. Update the statute on population quality of life outcomes to include people of color. Pass transformative racial justice bills that are already in consideration. H937, H478 are noted here. And provide effective and transparent civilian oversight of law enforcement and pass bills that are already in consideration such as H464 and H284. And then also embrace the ACLU 10 point plan and which is endorsed by justice for all among others. And lastly, I'd like to just urge each of you as individuals, representatives of us from honors to dig deep within yourself and begin to reflect on the many ways that our culture races us to be racist. This is the time to question ourselves, our beliefs and what is normal or accessible specifically as white people. Unless we are raised by actively anti-racist individuals it is near guaranteed that we have developed racist ideas and now is the time to try to change those. As legislators, I feel you have a duty to question your previous beliefs and ideas so that you may better serve BIPOC for honors. Thank you. Thank you, Will. Next, I'd like to invite Megan Browning of Monkton and Una Fonte of Vergenz is on deck. And welcome, Megan and you can start whenever you are ready. We will need to unmute you. There you are. Can you hear me now? Yes, ma'am. Go ahead, whenever you're ready. Great. My name is Megan Browning. I live in Monkton. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to speak at this meeting and I wanna do my best to use my voice here to uplift the vision of BIPOC for Monters that's based on the perspective of the Racial Justice Alliance. I'm motivated to speak here tonight because I really believe that a more peaceful and loving world is possible and that is all of our responsibility to breathe life into that vision. I'd like to reiterate a firm belief that systemic racism must be tackled in a way that dismantles systems of oppression and creates opportunities for BIPOC. I share the belief expressed by the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance that criminal justice and police reform are important aspects of addressing systemic racism and I believe they are the symptoms of a larger problem and the state should be looking to solve systemic racism more broadly. I'd like to use this time to reiterate the priorities and the brilliant vision of the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance to provide COVID-19 targeted relief for BIPOC in Vermont, enable economic development and empowerment for BIPOC Vermont, such as adult education and job training, empowerment and support for BIPOC-owned businesses, fund a statewide database to track racial disparities to inform transformative data-driven solutions, update the statute on population quality of life outcomes to include people of color, past transformative racial justice bills already in consideration and provide effective and transparent civilian oversight of law enforcement and past bills already in consideration. I'd also like to voice my support for the ACLU 10-point plan for police reform that includes ending qualified immunity, removing police from schools, committing police involvement in low-level offenses, banning police use of military grade equipment and techniques, among other things. And in closing, I'd really like to specifically emphasize the last point of the ACLU 10-point plan. Please invest in communities, not policing. It's time to demand that our laws and investments match our values as Vermonters and to affirm that Black Lives Matter, local and state policymakers must prioritize people and communities, not policing and prisons. Thank you. Thank you for being with us, Megan. Una Fonte of Regents is now coming to the table and Rachel Blumenthal of North Bennington. Please be ready to go next. Una, when you're ready. All right, thank you for having me. The strongest memory I have of the Regents to police department is when our town chief came to stop a student protest of schools administration refusal. Our schools administrations refusal to listen to student voice. This illustrates how police departments are often institutions meant to enforce the conformity of those with less power to systems that benefit those with power, even in Vermont. This is put into starker focus when you realize Vermont's population is only about 1% white, yet nearly 10% of our prison population is Black. That by the age of 28, people with disabilities are 44% more likely to be arrested. In Virginians where I live, Black people and people of color are searched at a rate three times higher than that of white individuals. There are many people in my town working to solve these issues, and yet the police department is extraordinarily resistant to change, going so far as to on a public Zoom call deliver a clear and vocal message along the lines of why won't he just shut up already in response to criticism from a member of the public. This is why we need statewide reform and oversight of the police. Localities are trying, but the police act not as members of our community, but as a force that is in control of our community making change difficult. You here sitting in front of Zoom have the power to make change possible, to make police departments members of the community and to begin to undo the systemic inequality within policing. You can do this by maintaining local oversight of all police departments, as well as statewide oversight by requiring yearly equity reports of the Vermont criminal justice system and providing all officers with comprehensive racial bias training by mandating changes of local police funding so that no matter how indirectly money from tickets and arrests made by the police department does not go towards funding the department. And lastly by providing better funding to schools, mental health care and ending poverty where the true rate of crime is. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for being with us, Una. Now I'd like to welcome Rachel Blumenthal and on deck is Mary Garrish of Bennington. Go ahead, Rachel. Okay, can you hear me? Yes, thank you. So my name is Rachel Blumenthal and I am from Bennington County. And I thank you for your time today to hear my testimony on this issue. I would like to share four ideas with you. First, I think it's crucial that legislation to reform policing in Vermont be statewide and not at the discretion of local boards and departments. Equity in Vermont cannot be achieved when similar occurrences play out in different ways in different communities. And secondly, though I'm pleased to see the focus on policing at this time, I think it's also crucial that we reexamine our justice system as a whole for its inequities as well as how it is based on a punitive system rather than restoration or real solutions. The success of the current systems outcomes is significantly limited by this punitive approach. Policing is just an entry into the system. An example of one area that needs to be addressed in the justice system in Bennington County is the lack of any treatment courts. Treatment courts have been successful in many counties throughout Vermont, but because they are not legislated, they are only in place at the discretion of a county state attorney. Bennington County does not have any treatment courts due to lack of support by our state's attorney. Those with addiction challenges in Bennington go through our criminal system. We know how unsuccessful that can be. I would urge that following this action you're taking around policing, that you continue your work at looking how we can improve our justice system as a whole. And third, I'd like to weigh in on the use of police in our schools as resource officers. I'm an educator and I work in my local school district. At my school, it's very unclear what the resource officer's purpose and role is. When I have questioned people at my school, I hear a range of, I think responses from safety around school shootings, student behaviors and positive relationships. No one is certain what the job description looks like. It's also very unclear who supervises them and whether they have any training in child development or adolescent development. This needs to be addressed on both a state and local level. And lastly, I wanna advocate for the importance of trauma and stress training for police. Trauma and stress affect a person's ability to co-think and act. This type of training is crucial for anyone who works in stressful situations, particularly police who are called upon to help in a range of situations that have potential for significant safety challenges. I know from my experience as an educator how critical this training is for deescalating as well as understanding situations. I thank you for your time and your consideration on these important issues. Thank you, Rachel. I understand that Mary Garrish of Bennington is not here. So Peter Langella of Moortown. And then after Peter will be Ann Reynolds of Pompfritz. So Peter, you can go ahead whenever you are ready. Thanks, sorry, just trying to unmute there. My name is Peter Langella from Moortown and I'm a librarian at Champlain Valley Union High School and I'm the current president of the Vermont School Library Association. And that's the capacity that I'm here with you today. I'd like to read a statement on behalf of the executive committee of the Vermont School Library Association Board. The Vermont School Library Association is in its early stages of a values and visioning process centered on inclusion. To us, inclusion means welcoming and affirming the voices of all library stakeholders in a way that shares power, ensuring that we create learning spaces in which every student feels acknowledged, valued and included as equal members of the community. Safety is a key component of this. If students don't feel safe, their ability to thrive in a myriad of ways will be greatly diminished. Many members of our Vermont communities, especially those from historically marginalized and oppressed backgrounds fear the presence of police. This is understandable. Data show that black and Latinx Vermonters are disproportionately targeted by police in this state just like they are in most of the country, if not all. Additionally, students of color and students with physical or neurological differences are two to three times more likely to be suspended from school, expelled from school and or referred to law enforcement. As an organization, we won't pretend to know what each community needs when it comes to local policing and the choice of whether or not to staff at schools with school resource officers. But we do know that the ACLU of Vermont, the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance and Black Lives Matter at school, among other organizations, advocate for the removal of SROs from school buildings. In light of this, our organization calls on all Vermont school districts that employ one or more school resource officers to create a task force to evaluate the status of any program for the 21-22 school year and decide whether or not funds should be redistributed to social workers, counselors and other mental health professionals. We also call that any school district that has an SRO mandate immediately that all SROs conceal their weapons from view and wear civilian clothing and prohibit SROs from parking their vehicle near the front entrance of the school on a consistent basis. If Vermont schools continue to put the comfort of our most privileged students above the safety of Black, Indigenous and other students of color, we are failing as a collective educational organization. Thank you very much. And I'll email you my full statement so you can read it. Thank you, Peter. I appreciate you being with us tonight. Next we'll have Anne Reynolds and actor Anne will be Ward Nile of South Burlington. Go ahead, Anne, when you are ready. Okay. I'm here. Where are you? Hi, Anne, we can hear you. Okay. All right. Well, I'm 92 years old and I'm obviously a white woman and I've always been respected and given assistance by the police everywhere I've lived. My experience makes the murders of my Black, Brown and other marginalized citizens even more starkly important to me. This is not the description of democracy I was told about growing up. Criminal activity on the part of the police must be addressed. I support the 10 points of the ACLU Justice for All and 13 other organizations. It is clear to me that we must reinvent the very concept of police. We must deconstruct their functions. This means acknowledging the contradictory meanings people hold for them for the term police. I suggest we form a diverse citizen tax force to reinvent the multiple job descriptions. We need, of course, protection teams for when people get out of control and are a danger to others. In collaboration with diverse citizen review panels, they will be respected as guardians of the peace. In addition, we will need adequately funded emergency service teams like the EMTs. The STs will be people with empathy trained in ways to provide services to our citizenry. And many of these needs we must acknowledge are due to enormous inequities in financial security, housing, healthcare, and the years and years of racism. Thank you. Thank you, Anne, for being with us. Next, I will call Ward Nile of South Burlington and on deck is Kirk McVeigh of Shaftesbury. Ward, go ahead when you are ready. Hi, hello, can you hear me fine? Yes, thank you. Yes, my name's Ward Nile. I'm from South Burlington, Vermont. Good evening. I am an advocate for people with mental health conditions. My involvement with advocacy started in 2016 shortly after the police shooting of Bill Greenin. Since then I've been involved in a lot of different committees around the state. And most recently I participated in the hiring committee for the executive director of the Vermont Criminal Justice Training Council. So I think that it's really a significant step forward that the bill seeks to incorporate a broader community input for the various things the council does. The following comments I wanna make are specific to the bills related to the training council. The bills are proposing to expand the public participation in the training council. Yet it should be noted that there are voices missing from the people with disabilities or mental health condition. These are people who too often experience excessive use of force by law enforcement. There are several statewide groups that are cross disability organizations that could be considered as additions to the training council. The Vermont Coalition for Disability Rights, Vermont Center for Independent Living and others are examples of these organizations that could be considered to add those missing voices. So it seems sometimes hard to know what the right voices are to have on a council like this. And I realize the governor can appoint some additional members but I'm wondering if you could allow the public members of the council to perhaps at their discretion offer up some additional members. Another aspect to consider is public limits to the public like term limits to the public. Primarily I'm thinking that it's easy for your views to be assimilated into the thoughts of the police and it's important to have fresh eyes on the subject. Thank you. Thank you for being with us Ward. Next I'd like to welcome Kirk McVeigh and on deck is Lynn Mazza of Bennington. Hi Kirk, I see you're unmuted now. Okay, apparently my camera's not coming on for some reason. So I guess I will have to do my presentation audio only. Hosts has asked you to start your video. Start my video, okay. Excellent. Now we see. Okay, so let me get started here. So I am licensed in the state of Vermont as both a psychologist master and as a mental health counselor. I'm currently the chair of the Vermont Mental Health Counselors Association Ethics Committee and I'm the longest standing member of the Vermont Psychological Association Ethics Committee. When I think about the ethical code that I am required to follow because of the trust that's put in me and my requirement by law to let everyone know who comes to see me that if they're unhappy with my work how to file a complaint with the state licensing board. Contrast this with the total lack of accountability for the police and nowhere to really turn to if you have a complaint as the current internal affairs system is kept confidential and has every appearance of a whitewash. There is no feedback, no resolution of a complaint. It's a dead end. Despite this fact, the police have far far more power over people than I do. We, given what we know from the famous Stanford study about the tendency for human beings when given such power to abuse it, it's an outrage that we really have no accountability when that power is abused. After the Bennington Police Department was studied by the Well-Respected International Association of Chiefs of Police, one of the recommendations is the formation of a citizen's oversight panel. If it's recommended for the Bennington Police Department why is it not a good idea for the state police? The, it would seem like we should have a citizen's oversight panel for each local police barracks consisting of citizens from that region. That's my recommendation. Thank you very much. We appreciate you being with us tonight. Next I'm gonna call Lynn Mazza of Bennington and on deck is India Tweety of South Royampton. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you. My name is Lynn Mazza, I'm a Bennington resident. I work for the Vermont Center for Independent Living which is a disability rights and advocacy organization. And I'm speaking today because as an advocate I am so angry and frustrated. I've met with numerous people who have shared with me their experiences of police impropriety and misconduct. And I'm not allowed to tell you the details of any of these stories because the people who shared them with me specifically asked me not to. And when people tell me these stories of humiliation, unprofessional comments, rough treatment, threats, harassment that they've received at the hands of the police my response is to suggest to them filing a complaint. Time and time and time again to a person, my peers with disabilities will not file a complaint. And when I even bring it up they beg me not to file a complaint on their behalf. And they won't speak because of fear. Fear of public humiliation at best, fear of life-changing retaliation at worst. They say it won't make any difference anyway which they've seen proven to be true over and over again. People don't start beat down in fearful the system conditions them to be so. And as an advocate I have no recourse to offer them. The current system of having complaints against the police department directed to the police department itself to review internally with minimal independent and outside oversight is simply ludicrous. Why would somebody wanna come forward with a complaint that's just going to be submitted and adjudicated by the very perpetrator that complaint is against? In Bennington specifically, the IACP reported about the lack of trust between the community members and the police force. And second. With that lack of trust documented why would we expect community members to draw attention to themselves? Where in this process is the person truly listened to? Where is their protection? The people I work with know that there is no protection currently and they're not likely to get satisfaction. So why go through the hassle and put themselves at risk? We have a system in place where the people with the most to lose have to take the biggest risk in order to engage. And when I think about all those folks who have told me their story and then multiply that out by those folks whose stories are yet untold and I think none of these things have been reported think of how skewed our statistics are. So we need a system for taking complaints and statistics that people can actually feel safe and confident turning to. Local, independent, citizen run committees where everyone can find someone on the committee who looks like them. Thank you very much. I would like to invite India Tweedy to join us now and on deck is Melinda White of St. Albans. Me. Hi, India. Thank you for being with us. Hi, my name is India and I'm from South Royalton and I'm an LNA, no big special title or anything but my boyfriend is currently incarcerated at Southern State Correctional Facility. And I'd like to speak on behalf of every inmate that doesn't have a voice right now. For example, I've called 10 places just today trying to get help from my boyfriend who's basically sitting in jail over a clerical error in the system and not one person can help me. I've been sent in circles and told the same thing after time and time again now for almost 30 days now and with no help. And it just blows my mind that eight state troopers could come to our home to arrest him on a technical violation, which I guess is 70% of Vermont inmates are in jail because of technical violations on probation, not even for committing new crimes or anything, but the eight state troopers could come surround our home like he's, you know, some big deal. But I can't get one person to help me get him out of jail. I mean, eight come to take him in but I can't get one to help. I don't even present his rights and it's really sad and frustrating. And I support the ACLU 10-point plan and defunding the police. And when I say that, I just mean not defunding or abolishing, but putting all the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars that we give to these police forces, put them back into our communities and our housing and our youth centers and things that will actually correct our youth and give them the direction they need so they don't end up in jail and these very strict outrageous stipulations by probation that they're made to live by that are just so, I mean, they're set up to fail. They literally are setting people up to fail. So we really need to have probation completely revamped and reformed in this whole system. So thank you so much, you guys. And that's it, I think that's it. Thank you for being with us, India. Now I'd like to welcome Melinda White and on deck is Oren Byrne of Burlington. So Melinda, go ahead when you're ready. Thank you, can you hear me now? Yes, we can. Okay, great. Thank you so much for this opportunity to speak with you all. A couple of points that I wanted to touch on, one was the discussion of bodycams. I've always been a huge supporter of those for both the protection of the community citizens and for the police. I'm also gonna put a shameless plug in for all police carrying Narcan. But what I wanted to highlight most, I know Steve Brower was at the last hearing talking about a pilot that, I'm sorry, I'm from St. Albans Franklin County. There's a pilot that NCSS, which is our local designated mental health agency has been doing with law enforcement for five years. And that is embedding mental health workers within those law enforcement agencies. And one thing that I have had a vision for for years now is to also embed substance use workers. So I'm a person in long-term recovery. I've been working in the field of addiction treatment and recovery and have been trying to get something like this going for a long period of time. I was fortunate enough to get an impanelment called the Thrive Impanelment in this area, worked with Vermont State Police locally as well as the St. Albans Police Department. But it's something that was never funded. We need support for something like that. So as opposed to destabilizing police departments because no social worker or crisis worker or substance use disorder treatment worker is gonna wanna go out to an unsafe setting without some security and backup, the protection of the police. I think it's more about working together and using the team two training model which has proven effective. I feel like that's something that would be solution oriented. Another thing I look at is treatment courts. Thank you. Being more consistent with treatment courts and making them readily available across the state of Vermont. Another thing is if we're looking at the deterrence of getting arrested for a crime, if that disacures, my fear is that crime is gonna go up. So I don't think destabilizing and defunding the police department is the answer. I think instead enhancing the partnerships with our local community partners to work with them and be able to bring the correct people on the scene as needed and work as a team, not to stabilize each other. Thank you. Thank you, Melinda. I appreciate you being with us next. I'd like to welcome Orrin Byrne of Burlington and on deck is Carolyn Wesley of Montpelier. Orrin, when you're ready. Orrin, I think you need to unmute. There we go. There we go. Hello, can you hear me now? Yes, we can. I'm very sorry. Thank you for granting me the opportunity to speak today. I'd like to voice the concerns I have with the law just passed and the laws currently being discussed regarding the police. After reading the many commitments as 219 makes, while bearing in mind the recent decisions and current practices of the state, decisions like increasing the age of juvenile offenders from 18 to 19, but at the same time considering the closure of what site and practices like housing our mentally ill patients in a facility which is more than a glorified trailer park outside of Middlesex is extremely hard to take to see this law as anything other than empty statements which are being made for political purpose. In regard to H-808, this law in its current form is the best contradictory and confusing. It combines two federal standards that authorizes the use of lethal force. However, it has altered one standard by so strongly defining the phrase imminent harm that the police officer will only be able to decisively apply this law if they are clear avoidance or able to see into the future. The laws being discussed here as well as the ones I don't have time to mention are essential but need more work. They need to be more considerate, better written and properly funded if they are truly going to enhance public safety. However, equity in society goes far beyond public safety. Mandating every police officer in the state to wear a body camera will not help feed marginalized families in our community or give them equal access to education in our healthcare. Police reforms alone will do very little to resolve the root causes that lead to criminality and recidivism. Therefore, these reforms cannot distract the general assembly from identifying, addressing, resolving the sources of inequity. Only by addressing inequities across the whole of society will meaningful change ever occur. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being with us, Oren. Carolyn Wesley of Montpelier is up next and Barbara Moro of Sutton is on deck. Carolyn, when you're ready, please join us. Good evening. My name is Carolyn Wesley and I'm a resident of Montpelier. I'm guessing that one area of common ground that I have with people who have dedicated their lives to law enforcement is that I value the concept of public safety. We all share a basic human desire to feel safe and protected. Unfortunately, it's clear that some communities and particularly black communities, for some communities, particularly black communities, police do not contribute to their sense of safety. In fact, they make them feel less safe even frightened for their lives. This is as true here in Vermont as it is anywhere in our nation. Given this fundamental flaw in our current structure for promoting public safety, we are called to restructure and think about different ways to be in community with one another. With that in mind, I ask you to embrace the 10 part plan to transform policing recently put forth by a variety of justice organizations in Vermont. I also ask that you and your colleagues and other legislative committees recognize that criminal justice and policing reform are just one component of structural racism in our state and that we must be holistic in our anti-racism efforts, ensuring we create opportunity for black, indigenous and other people of color in Vermont to thrive. This includes targeted relief from the disproportionate impacts of COVID-19 and other opportunities for economic development and empowerment, as well as increasing our efforts to collect and track data on racial disparities to inform transformative data-driven solutions. Finally, I ask that you pass and or enforce the following bills currently under consideration. H937 related to supporting the work of the Executive Director of Racial Equity, H478 relating to a reparations task force, H464 related to training and use of force, and H284 related to data collection in the criminal justice system. Thanks very much for your time. Thank you for being with us, Carolyn. Next, I'd like to invite Barbara Moro to join us and on deck is Tomas Junkowski of Newport. Barbara, go ahead when you're ready. Hi, thank you. And hello to the representative grad. I have a law enforcement family and consulted with colleagues in restorative justice about this testimony. I want to make three points about law enforcement training. Vermont has invested in restorative justice efforts in all parts of the state. Restorative justice can greatly assist on biased and impartial policing. This state has influenced and guided other states to incorporate restorative justice in schools and judicial systems. Yet I can't find a restorative representative on the proposed training advisory committees in the bills that I read. No member from the New National Restorative Justice Center at Norwich. No one from the restorative unit at the Department of Corrections. And no director from any of the 21 centers or programs. Next, restorative principles move training to critical thinking. We have paramilitarized law enforcement. Our applicants, officers, training and entire chain of command is based on a military model. Recruitment, training and supervision which lacks diversity results in problems for the community. Lastly, a revised training protocol that includes restorative principles can help law enforcement recognize the inherent power that comes from being in law enforcement. This power may be functional but a lack of self-awareness with it or inability to turn it off or it's exclusive roots is problematic. The kind of change we need comes from diversity and movement from training to critical thinking. We value our partnerships with law enforcement. We know that the community asks them to do difficult things. RJ can help law enforcement create a bridge to how our communities are evolving. And thank you very much again. Thank you for being with us. Tomasz Jankowski of Newport is up next. And after that, we will invite Josh Martin of St. Alvin City. Hello. Hi, we can hear you. Hello, good evening. And thank you, Chair Brown, Chair Copeland-Hanses and committee members for affording me the opportunity to speak with you on this important topic. My name is Tomasz Jankowski and the president and CEO of Northeast Kingdom Human Services. Our organization is one of the 10 designated agencies providing mental health addiction and intellectual and developmental disability services. I am pleased to share with you that NKHS is building close ties with the law enforcement agencies as we recognize the nuances and complex needs of our communities. We can only solve those social trauma and mental health issues by working together and indeed not separately. It is also imperative that the state funding is commensurate with the identified needs. And I believe we all know very well what those needs are. To exemplify our actions, I wanted to share with you that NKHS has recently developed new police embedment program whereby staff members exclusively stationed at the police department five days a week and trains with both police and NKHS. They respond only to police calls and ride with them. And now we are working on a similar program with the Caledonia County Law Enforcement Leadership. There are already successfully operating embedded models in Vermont. And our goal is to build upon those models by increasing the number of embedded social workers not only within the law enforcement but also within schools. And presently NKHS embedded position is founded by town donated funds which are, which of which model is not sustainable in the long term. So additional funds would be invested in embedding additional social workers in each of the counties within our service areas. You know, this funding will facilitate our success in decreasing inpatient psychiatric hospitalizations, emergency, use of emergency departments at the critical access hospitals, decreasing suicide rates, incarceration rates, eviction rates, and truancy amongst children. And I thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with you this afternoon. Thank you for being with us. Next up, I'd like to invite Josh Martin and on deck is Michael McShane of Braintree. Josh, go ahead when you're ready. I think you're still muted, Josh. Oh, hi. Welcome. Hi, thank you. Sorry about that. So I'm not by any means a pro military cop, but I do think that the discussion about police reform misses the fact that a lot of the bad things that cops do they're being told to do to some extent by you guys. And one example of that is giving out speeding tickets or giving out, giving someone a ticket because they can't afford to get their car inspector to get registered. And so what do we do?  And, you know, I don't think we should be using police for that. I don't think we should be using our police as road pirates. I think that's a waste. And I think that we're forcing people to pay for their own, you know, punishments. And we can't talk about that without talking about the fact that we've basically destroyed, if someone's not facing jail time, they're stuck going to the judicial bureau, which is one of the worst assaults on Vermonter's access to justice. Because to go there, you basically have a sham trial with a, I've never seen a, let me say I've had many experiences where I've seen the judicial. 30 seconds. Thank you. The judicial officer stepping and testifying for the cop. And so you have to go through that and lose that trial. And then this, if this person wants to contest their thing, they have to pay a big fee to get into superior court and they have to pay for any motion they file in judicial court, judicial bureau. Thank you. I just wanted to mention that and appreciate it. Thank you for being with us. Now I'd like to call Michael McShane. And on deck is Sally Burrell of Bristol. Michael, you can go ahead when you're ready. Michael, go ahead and unmute. Can you hear me now? Yes, thank you. Okay. My name is Michael McShane from Braintree Vermont, temporarily working out of Massachusetts. I'm calling because I would like to address some issues that I am hearing mentioned on the outside and not being brought up. One issue that has to be brought up is the whole movement of the BLM and other groups that are interested in racial justice are talking about funding for groups like the police departments. While funding may need to be reduced, small towns like Braintree and other small towns depend on the state police for protection, enforcement and services. These towns must be taken care of and when the funding is done, how are we to ensure that we still have a proper size funding to make sure those towns are kept safe? I have personally called the police over to my house more than one time and they were very respectful when they came and I'd like to continue to have that type of relationship with them when I have needed it. Another issue I'd like to mention is the respect for the individual is something that happens to people should happen to anyone, no matter what their race, their disability or whatever their status is. That said, we need to keep on going in an area of respect. I would also like to encourage that when we talk about police immunity and qualifying it or get rid of it, what do we then say to the police that you're not, oh, well, thank you for taking this job but because someone doesn't agree with you, we're gonna put you in court. That is not exactly what I think a police officer wants. We still need a way to protect the police when they do their job. I am not saying an unqualified community but there must be some form of protection so they can feel safe doing it and not always be in jail for every person who or in court for every person who comes up and says, I don't like what you did until I'm bringing you to court. Thank you, Mr. McShane.  And for attendees, I would just advise you that you might find it easier if you unmute yourself now while you're waiting for your turn to testify that way when we move you into the Zoom meeting here, you will already be unmuted. So you can go ahead and do that now. I promise you we won't hear your dog barking in the background until you come into the meeting after I've called on you. So, Sally, go ahead when you're ready. All right, thank you so much for coming together to do this and I've really enjoyed hearing people's ideas and support for reforms. I'm from a small town, less than 4,000 people and things have lately been going pretty well. We got a new chief a few years ago and we're having conversations now with leaders in the community and the chief and residents just to hone things in the policing in our town. But I feel that things do take a lot to change in a small town and it would be great to have statewide, really clear policies. And my main interest in the long term is to see restorative justice really become more and more developed in the state. I feel like we have the wisdom and the creativity and the experience to do this. And I think that with however the reforms go with policing, somehow having that aim toward and move toward that restorative justice would be a really great change for our state and it would really, it would just I think be more reflective of our values. I think that policing came about centuries ago to basically actually was oppressing people of color and so it's a long trip to change that early historic beginning but we really need to change it. I think we're ready and I think there's so much energy for that kind of change now and communities are stepping up. COVID has really helped us come together and it's a time for restorative justice. Thank you. Thank you, Sally, for being with us. Ricky Rassati of Brattleboro, one task to gawk can join us now and on deck will be Anthony Iarapino of Montpelier. Ricky, go ahead and unmute yourself. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you for being with us. I'm Brattleboro to reclaim one task gawk and I just am really proud of the municipal residents here who have started a community collective that is petitioning to have elected community members that are paid to review and abolish oppressive police and prison blocks at the state and federal level. And I really think that the resolution is going to be coming from residents using certain policy to go upon what laws we want being fascist representatives at state and federal levels. Ricky, we are having a little trouble hearing you. Are you still with us? Ricky, if you're able to get to a place with better reception, I would love to welcome you to come and share the remainder of your thoughts with us. Sorry, there's a bad connection. I can hear you now. Would you like to try to rejoin and start over where we lost you? I think that I'm really proud of the municipal residents lowering themselves to create the budgeted vote on the budget for the anti-policing and prison regulations that they want. That's all. Thank you, Ricky. I appreciate you being with us tonight. Next, we have Anthony Arpino from Montpelier and after that, Bill Brink of Perkinsville. While we're waiting for Anthony to join us, I will just remind witnesses that if you are willing to share your testimony in writing, that is often helpful, especially if we have had a challenge getting clear reception. So I think we have Anthony Arpino of Montpelier next and then Bill Brink of Perkinsville is on deck. Madam Chair, I don't see Anthony Arpino in the attendees queue, but Bill Brink is ready to go. Okay, well, let's go ahead with Bill and see if we can find Anthony. Bill, whenever you're ready, you can unmute and thank you for joining us. There he is. Bill, you're still muted. Hello. Thank you for joining us. Okay, I'm Bill Brink from Perkinsville, singer-songwriter. I'll find you. On December 28th, 2013, I was on my way to perform music in Satchton's River when Vermont, when the car was a passenger and was stopped by Trooper Nicholas Arlington of the state police for a headlight that was out. Trooper Arlington called Bill as falls for backup. Both Mario, Checkie, and the supervisor, Shane Harris arrived. Checkie ripped me from the passenger seat. I was grabbed by the throat and punched seven times in the face. I was choked until I was unresponsive. While my lifeless body lay face down in the mud and snow, four shots from a taser shot directly in my spine. EMTs who arrived were substituted mid. I was arrested and spent three days in jail for a warrant from a missing court date that I did not even know about. And I was never told why I was being arrested until I was taken to court on the third day. I was also refused medical care while in jail. After seven years and several surgeries, this has left me with permanent PTSD, depression and fear for which I spent six years confined to my home and ruined my career as a musician. I investigated Mario, Checkie, and I found that he'd been fired in 2011 from his position as a part-time officer in Walpole, New Hampshire prior to being hired in Bella's Falls. He had also been denied certification by the New Hampshire Police Standards and Training Council for domestic assault and drug use. This was all public information and easy to find. After finding this information, I started to contact multiple agencies to try and get someone to listen to my story with the hopes that my traumatic experience would be investigated, but no one would listen. Even the Vermont Attorney General, T.J. Donovan, refused to help or even listen to my story. Bella's Falls Police hired Checkie knowing that he has been denied certification in New Hampshire, which is very concerning. Thank you. Thank you for being with us, Bill. Now we'll go back up to Anthony Arappino of Montpelier and we'll ask Carly Bennett of Burlington to be ready to go after Anthony. So go ahead, Anthony. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and for recognizing that more work needs to be done to ensure that police in Vermont are accountable to the communities they're supposed to protect and serve and to the Constitution they swear an oath to uphold. I support the 10-point plan adopted by the ACLU and other social and racist justice organizations to increase police accountability and respect for the Constitution. Today I wanna focus on one of the most important points in the plan that urges Vermont to follow the lead of Colorado and Connecticut in abolishing the defense of qualified immunity. That defense frustrates courtroom accountability for police who harm citizens. This judicially created doctrine, prevents survivors of police violence and discrimination, which can and does happen to here in Vermont, from having the courts acknowledge the injustice of their pain and from stopping the cycle of police abuses. Vermont has a criminal and a civil justice system and the civil courts, those who have been wrong can sue for money damages as a means of holding their abusers accountable. Qualified immunity holds rogue police officers in the departments that employ them above the law in our civil court system. Decades ago, the U.S. Supreme Court invented qualified immunity on the theory that public employees will be afraid to do their jobs if they thought they could be sued for money if they did their jobs wrong. In practice, however, it creates a situation in which police can trample our constitutional freedoms knowing that neither they nor their public employers will feel the financial repercussions of their actions. Unfortunately, Vermont courts have adopted the U.S. Supreme Court's qualified immunity to ensure its presence in Vermont cases. The reasoning behind qualified immunity doesn't hold water. In reality, many types of professionals in Vermont from lawyers and doctors to home improvement contractors can be sued in court if they fail to uphold their professional obligations and create harm to those they're supposed to serve. The risk of lawsuits against professionals actually creates an extra incentive to do their job carefully and to treat clients with the respect they deserve. The same should be true for those who wield the power of the state and carry badges, guns, and all manner of military grade equipment. I urge you to follow the lead of your colleagues in Colorado and Connecticut and restore the balance of accountability in our civil court system by ending qualified immunity for police officers who violate the constitutional rights of Vermonters. Thanks for your time. Thank you for joining us tonight. Next, I would like to invite Carly Bennett of Burlington and on deck is Donald Schneider of Waterbury Center. So Carly, when you're ready. Okay. All right. Thank you for this opportunity. I just want to say that I think our state needs community-based and community-led support services that work to build systems that meet the educational, physical, and mental health safety and housing needs for all. Our communities need restorative and transformative justice systems that uplift those who are targeted by systemic racism and inequity rather than punishing them further. Reallocating funds to redesign public safety systems that address the root causes of the crime rather than policing the effects will make our community safer and stronger. Resources should shift out of police departments and into BIPOC communities, which have historically entered the greatest harms from underinvestment in non-punitive resources and overinvestment in policing and other tools that funnel people into the criminal legal system. These historically disenfranchised communities must have a significant role in deciding how the newly available funding should be allocated so that the process does not repeat historical patterns of white paternalism towards these communities. Reinvestment efforts should also take into account intersectional considerations, recognizing that police violence and harassment is often targeted at those who experience not only racial oppression, but other intersecting forms of oppression. I fully support the ACLU's 10-point plan for police reform, including ending qualified immunity, removing police from schools. As an educator, I know firsthand that schools need more counselors and support staff. They do not need police. Limit police involvement in low-level offenses. Nationwide, only 5% of all arrests made in 2018 involved alleged violent crimes and only 4% of what police spend their time doing involves in violent crime. The vast majority of arrests are for low-level nonviolent activities in encounters that often escalate into deadly force. And along with the other points, I really want to emphasize that investment in communities and not policing, it needs to be at the forefront of our policy. Thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight. Next, Donald Schneider and on deck is Tyler Bedow of Highgate. So, Donald, when you're ready, go ahead, Don.  If you're ready, Don, you can unmute and start anytime. I want your video. Thank you. All set? Yes. Now, thank you so much for this opportunity and I'm calling in support of the ACOU 10-point plan of police reform and many and most of what you have heard tonight from the other people who are testifying. My point, and I'm just doing this in conversation form, I think what we really need to look at after the horrible murders of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, we've seen a moment that we haven't seen before, although it's been closed, about really doing some reform for many things, but police reform being the most important right now. And when I talk to different people about this moment, how important it is and what can we do, especially as white people, what can we do? What I respond to them is to say, the best thing you can do is look at people running for office, ask them the questions, are they gonna support liberty and justice for the people of this country and vote in people into political positions because that's where the power is to make rules and laws and regulations that support liberty and justice. So that's my take for folks, that's what they can do that can support that. So as you folks are now all politicians and you have that power, I'm asking you please to step up, take the courage and vote these measures in along with other the reforms to help with liberty and justice for people of color and for black people in our state. And I hope you stand up and take that courage.  So just to remind you that Vermont was the David against the Goliath when the civil rights movement was going on around gay marriage and Vermont was a leader in that. And I'm hoping that this state will be the lead and will be the David with the Goliath to take down the abuses that go on that really and do what we need to do to support liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you for being with us tonight. Tyler Bado of Highgate is up next and then I'd like to welcome Rishana Phillips of Essex. So Tyler, when you're ready, go ahead and unmute. Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Perfect. So I'm Tyler Bado, a 12 year corporal with the Burlington Police Department and I'm current president of the Burlington Police Officers Association. In the 12 years of law enforcement, I have not seen the level of vilification regarding law enforcement as the past few months. Well, we can all agree that the death of George Floyd is tragic. What we cannot agree on is a response from the Vermont legislature. The grotesque and rushed introduction of legislation that has serious consequences is the exact opposite of what is needed. Minneapolis has very little to do with Vermont or its officers. The haphazard response by the Vermont legislature appears to be nothing more than political posturing, yet one that will make an already difficult job unworthy of the risk. What is needed is a measured response borne out by facts and driven by data. Unfortunately, it seems that the Vermont legislature is incapable of this when some tragedy falls the national scene. Bills S119, 124, H464, and H808 are not nuanced. They're full of buzzwords written by those woefully unqualified to draft such legislation. The opinion of a single trooper with barely any time in the profession does not expert testimony make. It is clear upon reading these bills that they are solutions in search of a problem. There already exists a nationwide standard for the use of force issued by the US Supreme Court. Next straights are used only during encounters that have turned lethal and are already prohibited except for that explicit circumstance. Deescalation, a word that is now a million different meetings is a resource intense, multifaceted tactic that is not better served by reducing funding and poorly written policy, especially without a clear entity to unburden law enforcement's call volume. The law requires deescalation in every encounter and makes no effort to fund training, provide resources, or even recognize that this is simply not always possible. The legislature has no real plan in place in a state that cannot keep talented young adults due to massive taxation, regulation, and soaring real estate costs. These bills have added a burden to a thankless job that few would sign up for. The State of Vermont wants law enforcement done dirt cheap and then drafts poorly written legislation and vilifies those willing to do the job. The officers of the BPR extremely well trained in deescalation have nuanced and specialized skills are objective and honest and work hard in the first city. It will be hard pressed to keep professional officers in Vermont and in Burlington. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, Tyler. Next, I'd like to welcome Rashana Phillips and on deck, Alyssa Chen of Burlington. Rashana, go ahead when you're ready. Go ahead and unmute when you're ready, Rashana. Okay, I think I got it. Yes, thank you. My name is Rashana Phillips. I am an amateur gardener and one thing I've learned is that you gotta keep up with the weeds. While I'm a beginner, I do know that if I pull up one or two weeds and leave the rest, I'd soon have an overrun garden. That said, we can not only focus on criminal justice and police reform to fix systematic racism and expect that to resolve all the problems. As it doesn't take into account the inequities black and brown bodies also face in education, healthcare, housing, income and job opportunities. In order to address and dismantle systematic racism, I'm asking you the legislatures to take a holistic approach and work with the racial justice alliance to address criminal justice and police reform while also tackling the other weeds in the garden by creating opportunities, equity and reparations for BIPOC communities in Vermont through targeted COVID relief, enabling economic development, funding a statewide database to track racial disparities, passing racial and criminal justice bills already in consideration and implementing the ACLU's 10 point plan. While there's much work ahead of us, it's going to take time, money and resources to weed out systematic racism as it is the root of the inequity in our society and has been nurtured, sustained and lawfully encouraged to grow for over hundreds of years without laws and change of the current systems of power in place made by you, the legislature, nothing will change. While our state is small, we have been on the map before for being on the right side of history and we were the first to legalize same sex marriage through legislature. Let's be on the right side of history again and be the leader for the rest of the country on how to dismantle systematic racism. In closing, I like many other black and brown people have experienced covert and overt racism in school, on my job, in the stores, while I serve my country in the Navy and with the police. And while I'm sure this will not be resolved in my lifetime, you the legislatures with the help of the Rachel Justice Alliance have the power to make real and lasting change for my kids, our kids and the generations to come. Black Lives Matter. Thank you, Urshana. Now I'd like to welcome Alyssa Chen of Burlington and on deck is Waythick Fauer of Richmond. Alyssa, go ahead when you're ready. Which one? Okay, there we go. My name is Alyssa Chen and I'm a multiracial Asian woman living in Burlington, Vermont. I'm speaking out today in solidarity with the Racial Justice Alliance vision. I want to name that when we talk about racial justice in Vermont, I think it's important that our representatives look beyond the criminal justice system. Racism is embedded in all aspects of our society from access to education, to health outcomes, COVID being a prime example, to having safe and dignified housing. It's extremely important to recognize that when we see racially discrepant outcomes in many aspects of our society, it's not due to any inherent issue with people of color, but it's a product of our racist systems that are producing the outcomes that are set up to produce. People of color are being impacted in all aspects of society. So we want to demand that the state of Vermont tackle systemic racism holistically, ensuring we're creating opportunity for BIPOC communities in Vermont. Lastly, I also want to name that Black Lives Matter and I want to lift up and be in solidarity with black folks that are bearing the brunt of racism in America. Now I'm going to read Vermont Racial Justice Alliance legislative priorities and hope that we can put these forth in the next couple of months. Provide COVID-19 targeted relief for BIPOC folks in Vermont. Enable economic development and empowerment for BIPOC communities in Vermont, such as education, job training, empowerment and support for BIPOC to own businesses, et cetera. Fund a statewide database to track racial disparities to inform transformative data German solutions. Update statute on population quality of life to include life outcomes for people of color. Past transformative racial justice bills already in consideration, including bill 937, Staffing Racial Equity Office and bill H478, Reparations and Tackling Criminal Justice Reform provide effective and transparent civilian oversight and past bills already in consideration. And I want to embrace the 10 point plan outlined by the ACLU and endorsed by Justice Frawle and want us as a state to defund police and invest in community. Thank you, Alyssa, for being with us. Next, I'd like to invite Waifik Faur of Richmond and on deck is Rebecca Welker from Franklin. Hello. Welcome. Yes. My name is Waifik Faur, I'm from Richmond. I'm a member of Vermont Rural Justice in Palestine, which is member of Vermont Rural Justice Alliance and I'm a member of ACLU. I agree with the last two speakers that we have to think about the problem of race in Vermont, it's not in police only, but in healthcare, in housing, in education. And I hope with the members of this committee and the member of the House and the Senate on the state that they will pass the legislation have been put forward by the Alliance and the other groups. This meeting and other meetings across the country wouldn't come if it isn't for the soul and the spirit of George Floyd's and many black and brown people get killed at the hand of the police forces. I disagree with Tyrell who said there is no alternative. You put forward, yes, we have alternative. We have the thumb points that ACLU put forward. And we don't have a reason he says and we say, yes, we have a reason because the data telling us that state of Vermont is still on many department practicing very racist laws. The last thing, I am Palestinian. And I think I came from that point and I align myself with the black and brown people. And some police department in Vermont are going, sometimes a training at the hand of Israeli who are killing innocent Palestinians every day. And they are visiting that in many departments. And we should stop that as legislation. You have to work to stop kind of cooperation between a racist state, apartheid state like Israel and the departments, the police department, departments in the state of Vermont. And we know for sure that there are, technology have been planted on institution like UVM to listen to students and to scare them have been put by the ex chief of police, Gary. Okay, who is buying these software from Israel? We should buy. Thank you, Mr. Fowler for joining us today. Next, I'd like to invite Rebecca Welker of Franklin and on deck Ashley the board of Burlington. Rebecca, go ahead when you're ready. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Hi, okay, wonderful. Good evening, everyone. I'm here to voice my support for the ACLU and NAACP 10 point plan. Something I urge you to adopt and implement immediately. This plan includes ending qualified immunity. Our laws in Vermont shield officers who abuse their power as they're simply not held accountable for their behavior. Our law students said decentralized misconduct and officer should always have to answer for their actions. The same as any of us walking the street without a badge would. We need to remove police from schools. The presence of school resource officers often results in disproportionate targeting of students of color, students with disabilities and low income students. And to redirect funding to educational support services, a puritive approach is not the answer. We must limit police involvement and low level offenses. Our laws should significantly limit police involvement in mental health crises, limit their authority over consent based searches and limit their wide discretion to site and arrest for petty offenses. These been unnecessary interactions disproportionately impact people's color. We must ban the use of military grade equipment and techniques. Militarizing our police is totally unnecessary, counterproductive and more often than not dangerous to communities. Arming police with such equipment again, encourages use of paramilitary tactics, including no knock raids and abusive crowd control techniques, such as using cupperspray, rubber bullets, tear gas and sound cannons. We must prohibit the use of new and invasive surveillance technologies. We must require appointment of independent counsel outside of state attorneys in the attorney general's office when reviewing and prosecuting police misconduct. Our current approach to the blatant conflict of interest should not be policing the police. We must increase transparency. We can never conceal misconduct ever. This planning record should always be available to the public as we must have access to all information regarding misconduct in order to hold our community officers accountable. We must require robust system wide data collection and analysis. We must establish community control and authority over law enforcement. We must invest in communities and not policing. Our laws and investment of taxpayer dollars must match our values as Vermonters and human beings. It is time to affirm that black lives also matter and hold our legislators accountable for prioritizing communities over policing and prisons regardless of how profitable the latter may be. Something I just want to say for myself, just personal opinion, we also must discuss and explore the concept of implicit bias and acknowledge that it's in each and every one of us we must know how we think and how our behaviors are an inevitable result of those biases. Thank you for your time. Thank you for being with us tonight. Next, I'd like to invite Ashley LaPorte to join us. And on deck is Imogen Drake of Brattleboro. Ashley, go ahead when you're ready. Hi there. Hi there. My name is Ashley LaPorte. I'm actually from the south end of Burlington, Vermont and I grew up in Stowe. I'm calling today to advocate for myself, for my life, for the life of my partner Louise, for the lives of the children I hope to bring into this world someday, for my sisters, my friends and the many other BIPOC Vermonters who are strangers to me but with whom I have a profound shared experience. It is imperative first and foremost that we take a smarter, more up-to-date approach and soliciting community input. This is incredibly frustrating for me and the lack of familiarity with technology is no excuse. You cannot invoke the name of a black man who died under the knee of a police officer as a reason behind the urgency for this hearing, for this public forum and then refused to prioritize BIPOC voices. An unwillingness to prioritize us is missing the entire point and is the reason why we have this problem. This is demonstrative of systemic racism. The fact that we heard from Tyler Bodeau, who is a white man, who is telling us that we are, and I quote, creating solutions for problems that don't exist before you heard from any other people of color on the phone is exactly the problem that we're trying to overcome in the state. And that leads me to this issue itself. We cannot limit the conversation to incrementalism around police reform and public safety. Vermont needs to embark on an all-encompassing legislative agenda to end systemic racism in our state. Yes, police reform is sorely needed here but if we limit ourselves to criminal justice reform, we are tackling the symptom and ignoring the root issue, which is systemic racism, which is white supremacy and the fact that we're limiting opportunities for BIPOC Vermonters. I stand with the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance in calling for the state of Vermont and the legislator to create a robust legislative agenda to end systemic racism in Vermont. This includes provide immediate COVID-19 targeted relief for black, indigenous and other people of color and enable economic development and empowerment for BIPOC folks like me and Vermont, such as adult education and job training and empowerment. Fund a statewide database to track racial disparities to inform transformative solutions. The data that people are citing now as to why this is a problem is what has unearthed the problem in the state we need database solutions. Mostly past the transformative racial justice bills that are already in consideration, Bill 937 staffing a racial equity office get brilliant Susana Davis some help. She cannot do this alone. The bill H478 around reparations look to Burlington that just passed a revolutionary reparations resolution as an example, it can be done. And then if you wanna make actual progress in tackling criminal justice reform, look to what the ACLU is saying in their 10 point plan pass the bills H464, H284 that are already in consideration and do something to fix the major problem which we all know is qualified immunity. I want to close on the point that I open with it is time for Vermont to create a robust legislative agenda that is focused on racial justice holistically that focuses on dismantling white supremacy holistically and ending systemic racism here. This hearing is demonstrative of the problem. You must prioritize BIPOC voices. And if you are going to invoke black death as the reason to have these hearings you may not keep us silent you may not deprioritize us in these conversations and you must make it easier for all folks who don't have Wi-Fi access who don't have a way to sign into this to make their voices heard with you. Please do something with it. Thank you so much for being with us Ashley and I do wanna just mention that the order in which we're calling witnesses is the order in which folks have registered for this meeting. And I would also like to mention that there is a survey that has been created by the social equity caucus of the legislature in hopes that folks who aren't able to join us for one of these hearings will share their thoughts with us via that survey and we can make sure that we publicize the link to that survey in case folks are not able to access that. Next I'd like to welcome Imogene Drake's of Brattleboro and then Ezra Steinfeld of Greensboro. Imogene go ahead. Good evening. Good evening members of the legislature. Can you hear me? Yes we can, thank you. Oh good. Okay my name is Imogene Drake and I'm very pleased to be given this opportunity to share my thoughts on police reform. First the foundation. I would like to say that the police have been described as the arm of the law. Therefore we should start by reviewing the laws that inform how our police operate. Do those laws discriminate against people of color and any singular group of people? For example, is the punishment for one type of drug used by one group of people different from the drug of choice used by another group of people? I suggest the laws need to be reviewed with a fine tooth comb for a hidden nuggets of discrimination against various groups of people. Next concerns about reforms. As we go about reforming, we do not need to reinvent the wheel in all situations. We can check with other groups who have done reforms and learn from their successes, failures and in particular what they tried to change but could not change despite their best efforts. We do not need to throw out the baby with the bath water. Good policing is not a unicorn, it does exist. I've seen it in action. We also need to maintain structures that work. We need to maintain institutional knowledge of the community. And we also need to maintain knowledge of good policing techniques. We need to consider all stakeholders, the police, the community, the boards and associations. If we do not, we will fail. Finally, for our future division is to be armed with information about what and gender discrimination and lessons learned from others. We can use solutions that may be unique to Vermont or maybe not. For example, we can have boards comprised of marginalized members of our community who are in good standing or perhaps mothers who would use the Solomon approach when reviewing complaints. That is, will this process be okay for my child? Those are my thoughts and I thank you for your time. Thank you for being with us tonight. Next, I'd like to welcome Ezra Steinfeld of Greensboro and on deck is Jeannie Walts of Burlington. Go ahead, Ezra. Hello. Hi, welcome. Thank you. Firstly, I want to second the point that Ashley made about prioritizing the voices of black indigenous and people of color in Vermont. I agree that technology is no excuse for that and that should be the very first thought in your minds when you talk about criminal justice and police reform. I'm also incredibly disappointed that you're cutting short the voices of anybody in this meeting. I understand the need for the time concerns, but the people that you're cutting off and the timing of when you're cutting off, I suggest bias based on what exactly you are wanting and expecting to hear from this testimony. Second, I mean, thirdly or secondly, whatever, I want to voice my support for the 10 point plan voiced outlined by the ACLU. I demand that you fund a statewide database to track racial disparity. You have to create and staff a racial equity office. And finally, reform is never going to be enough.  The manufacturing of criminality is a symptom and a problem of systemic racism and the only way to actually help and protect people in our communities is to invest in those people. The police have no recourse for protecting or saving people other than by using violence and they have proven again and again that violence is not an acceptable tactic for helping people. So investing in education and in housing as two of the easiest examples to come up with are absolutely essential in making a change in addressing the systemic racism in Vermont. Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us tonight. Next, I'd like to welcome Jeannie Walts of Burlington and after that, Allie Johnson-Curtz of Montpelier. So Jeannie, go ahead when you're ready. Hello, everyone. I am Jeannie Walts. I live in the Old North End of Burlington where I've been helping to coordinate an annual event called the Ramble. It's essentially a cultural festival that celebrates the Old North End community. If you don't know, it's one of New England's most economically and racially diverse neighborhoods. In planning, I've worked closely with the Burlington Police Department to secure various permits for this event. I also represent this neighborhood on the Burlington School Board and as co-chair of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee, I'm deeply invested in the district's efforts to evaluate the role of student resource officers and implement restorative practices. What these roles have in common, I have gotten, and I'm putting this extremely lightly, people feel uncomfortable in the presence of an armed officer. Of course, I've advocated on behalf of both of these roles to minimize this negative impact. To the department's credit, both times officers have agreed to be in plain clothes but I am still told an officer has to be armed. I have no idea if this is a mandate and if where this mandate comes from, is it city, is it whatever? I know I'm talking about two very different settings but we are here as somebody put it before. I hope we're considering how intimidating that weapon is and how counterproductive it is to relationship building and I hope that you reconsider and encourage the ability for officers to serve unarmed. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Jeannie. Next up is Allie Johnson-Curtz and then Mike Moran. Allie, if you're with us, you are up next. Madam Chair, I don't have Allie but I do have Mike. All right, Michael Moran, go right ahead. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity. Again, my name is Mike Moran. I'm from Williston and I'd like to share some of my thoughts around this topic, particularly in a police reform. As a previous town constable in Williston, I've had the opportunity to work with our local police and would like to say that I was very impressed with all of them. I think it's important to recognize good police work, where it is. I just want to say that I believe the police are vital to the health and safety of the public, but obviously something is missing from the way it's set up now. I suggest our objective should be to directly address and or remove police officers who exhibit inappropriate behaviors. These unchecked behaviors can escalate over time and as we've seen can lead to tragedy. So being a solution-oriented person, I recommend that police departments require that all officers wear body cameras while on duty. Body cameras provide an impartial witness. Body cams protect police from unfounded complaints as well as provide visibility of their interactions with the public. In addition, and most importantly, we should couple body cameras with real-time behavior feedback programs. I've heard a lot of discussions today about the need for this. It's critical to the effective use of body cameras is that all incident complaint body camera footage be retained and reviewed. Ideally, this review should be performed by an independent of the police infrastructure. This approach is needed to overcome the deep-seated mistrust that exists across the country of the willingness of police to effectively address their performance issues. It is vital that the review includes citizens and should provide recommendations to police department and town leadership and to a statewide oversight group for corrective actions. I recommend the police review group consist of a police department representative and two local citizens from the community served. This level of police review and oversight is vital to improving citizen trust and would directly improve police-citizen interaction. I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight. That is the last witness who was registered to testify at today's hearing. And I want to thank all of the folks from around the state who joined us today for this hearing. If you know of Vermonters who did not get a chance to testify and are interested in, please encourage them to sign up for the remaining hearing, which is on August 16th. This is very important and very complex work and it is valuable to us to hear the perspectives of many different Vermonters. So thank you to all of the attendees who came out to give some testimony here today. So if you are interested in joining us, please do go to the legislative website and find the registration information for the August 16th meeting. And also I want to just say thank you to the staff who've been in the background helping us hold this meeting so that many legislators can listen and take notes while other people are doing a lot of work in the background. So thank you all for joining us tonight.


California, it's The Cube, at the Adaptive Flash launch brought to you by Nimble Storage. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. Hey welcome back everyone, this is The Cube live in Silicon Valley in San Jose, this is The Cube where we go out and extract the signal from the noise. We're here for the exclusive launch for Nimble Storage, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Next guest is Shuresh Vasudevan, CEO of Nimble Storage. Welcome back to The Cube, been good to see you. Thank you very much, it's a real pleasure to be here. An exclusive product launch, really intimate but really powerful presentation. You're up on stage, you want to get into the details quickly but I want to talk about the culture of your company because your success story, you're growing fast, you've got great numbers, great product technology which we'll talk about but you're building a durable company. So talk about the culture of Nimble because this is really the Silicon Valley story. Indeed, very much so, I think when I describe what Nimble's aspiring to do, I always describe it as one side of the coin is about the business that we're building and the other side of the coin is about the organization we're building and so there are many attributes to that organization. First and foremost is the set of values that are important and we've got a great legs to focus on that. Some of the precepts that we've adopted are things like we would rather not hire a super star if that person does not know how to be collaborative with everything else, for us having no jurors is part of that. We've seen a huge explosion in being able to get just more data on whatever media that it's on. You guys have thin provisioning, you've got compression. Can you talk a little bit about DDoop? Why is it a compression architecture really rather than a DDoop which so many have? So there are really two inputs into why we think about compression and thin provisioning as adequate and why we've not gone down the data application path. The first is to say the biggest benefits from DDoop application tend to accrue in three environments, object storage, backups, and server farms where you're cloning the board images over and over again. And our perspective has been we don't address object storage with thin snapshots, we are solving the same problem that DDoop-plicated backups do. And in the case of server farms, typically you can use zero-copy cloning to deliver the big benefits that DDoop does. In most other environments, DDoop tends to deliver between a 20 to 35% benefit. And so it's not a substantial enough benefit to go after DDoop with specifically because our system is able to deliver very high performance using low-cost drives. So that was the underpinning which is given that we are already using low-cost drives, we would have to spend a lot on memory to maintain the DDoop hash tables and the savings are going to be 20 to 30% so they don't actually cost justify. Now having said that, as you start to evolve towards systems that have very high flash content, DDoop application becomes a necessary aspect of the architecture. So for us, it's not a religious argument around is DDoop important or not important. It's a question of if we're going to spend more on memory to facilitate DDoop application, more on CPU, at what point does the underlying media cost reduction justify that extra expense? We came from an environment where we understand DDoop really well. Yeah, so if you're looking at just cost and storage in the market, I wonder if we can touch on cloud because you guys are pulling the back-up piece in-house. You're seeing a lot of even the big storage guys who are starting to use the AWS as a tier or back-up to a secondary site. We talked to Rod earlier and talked about InfoSight how you are a consumer of cloud but how does cloud storage fit into your field? Now that's a really good comment. Two observations. The first observation I would make is today, cloud service providers are a key segment driving our growth but when we say cloud service providers, these are either SaaS companies or infrastructure hosting companies that are essentially saying here's a virtual machine for rent, come run your application. So that's a segment that's growing very quickly for us. In that sense, it's actually driving our growth. There's a segment of the cloud service provider market, companies like AWS companies, like Google companies like Azure that are not necessarily deploying our infrastructure and they're taking away from data that our customer might otherwise place on a storage system, right? Now typically the way we think about it is most of the data that's going on to public clouds is what I describe as eventually consistent data, so archives, back-ups and so on. It's not necessarily appropriate for transactional data. In transactional data environments, you still need an engineered storage system like ours. So you nailed it by saying, over time should backups live in a public cloud? We think so, and is that a direction that at the right time we would pursue? Absolutely, that makes sense for us to consider as the way we would solve the backup challenge. We'd still want to leverage the way we approach snapshots but perhaps think of the cloud as an infrastructure that enables us to use it as well. Sir Ash, talk about the excitement. You guys are on stage with a lot of swagger here, confidence, good swagger, I mean that in a negative way. But for customers, how do you boil it down for the customers, how do you take this excitement, share with them kind of why, what is going on, what's so important right now from the customer standpoint? Yeah, absolutely, the first comment I would make is like the one attribute of the company that I hope we never come across as demonstrating is arrogance, confidence is good, arrogance is where we draw the line and absolutely that's not, so hopefully that did not come through in the way that we presented ourselves. No it did not. From a customer's perspective, you know I have never believed more that storage architectures have to change because if you're a customer with a data center where you have lots and lots of data, moving to a flash optimized platform is radically going to change the economics of your storage. Whether it's the cost of delivering capacity, whether it's the cost of delivering performance or the ease of data management. And so I would say if you're not contemplating what options are available to you then you're arguably sacrificing some degree of efficiency. And it's a matter of time before that architectural shift will occur. We happen to think we've built the broadest flash platform and that's what's driving the rapid customer acquisition but that to a customer I think evaluating your options has never been more necessary than now. So Suresh, so speaking of that, we just came off what IDC called the worst quarter for storage that they've seen in many, many years. You guys have an embryo position with better margins than the competition. So can you speak to kind of storage broadly? Is storage just in a slow decline? Can you maintain that growth and margins as you grow bigger? How does that affect you and the channel and storage as a whole? Absolutely, I think there are really three factors that are going on that speak to a decline in overall storage revenues. The least important of which is often called out by most of the mainstream companies on conference calls which is that customers are sweating assets more, extending depreciation cycles, that's happening but that's by, I think that's the least significant reason of the reasons why storage is slowing for the larger vendors in particular. The two main reasons for years we've been used to over provisioning storage to deliver performance that applications need. Flash has come around now as an answer to that problem where you no longer have to over provision the amount of storage to deliver the performance that application needs. So by definition I think we're going to see a period of shrinkage where you're not going to have to spend the same on storage to meet performance requirements and like most things in storage when thin provisioning came it slowed down storage capacity growth and then started to go up again. So I think the first factor that's affecting the likes of EMC, NetApp and Dell is reduced over provisioning for performance. The second factor that's again affecting some of the vendors more is the fact that eventually consistent customer data, archives, large scale content repositories, a few years ago would live on very large NAS systems that was the best place to place those archives. Today increasingly object storage systems whether they are on premise or in Amazon S3 like solutions if you will are taking away from data that would have otherwise gone to Icelon or NetApp or others. And so that's also causing a shrinkage in revenue. I think those are factors more important than just macroeconomic slowdowns if you will. So Resh, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it, I know you're super busy but to end the segment I want you to share in your own words to the folks watching in the technology industry right now why is it so important right now this inflection point and has it compared to others that you've seen and lived through in terms of side equals obviously it's a little bubbly on the private side we talked about that earlier so why is this so much an exciting time? Yeah you know I think if I think about the catalysts of change that go beyond storage I have never seen a time where I believe databases rules of building databases are being rewritten. Rules of how you solve security problems are being rewritten. Rules of how you address storage are being rewritten partly because there are some fundamental enabling catalysts that have never existed before. Cloud is a catalyst that in many ways was really the enterprise manifestation of the internet era. The second big enabler is semi-conductor based persistent storage flash or it's follow-ons and so that's the second big enabler that never has existed before. Analytics, data analytics at a scale that's unparalleled. So all of these when you think about the underlying building blocks it basically allows you to reimagine how you might solve a storage problem. Reimagine how you might solve a security problem. I think that's partly why enterprise is so absolutely unbelievable change in the data center right now. Final word, you know every company has a culture, you know Intel's Moore's Law. Some people have sales cultures. What is the culture of your company? Yeah, I think there are two words that encapsulate really sort of what the culture of the company is. Efficiency and collaboration, right?  Efficiency, we are all about saying can you be innovative in using every resource you have whether it's in our business process, whether it's in our architecture to the utmost potential. That's really sort of one core theme that drives us. Collaboration is all about saying we want to build an environment and a community where people as teams deliver far more than any individual is capable of, right? So it's about sort of hiring no jokes but retaining talent that's really able to work cross-functionally extremely well. Efficiency and collaboration, Nimbl Storage.  I don't want to get you in trouble with the. Well, it's a fun time, it's a great time. Okay, sure. So CEO of Nimbl Storage here, exclusive coverage of SiliconANGLE, Wookie Bonsikube, we'll be right back extracting the sales from the noise right after this short break. Thank you.