Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is none of my normal co-hosts. They're all Indisposed Tom went to another continent and decided to tell me on like yesterday He was not here and I didn't know that and Tyler has some family things, but fortunately we have a true hero here And that is Mr. Paul Conti from Radio Free Hammer Hall. How you doing, Paul? What's up nerds? It's happening If you can't have Tyler or Tom here I am basically the nest next best thing considering that once Tyler was your temporary co-host for a little while It took him literally about three months to eclipse my Appearance count so that's true. You've been on the show many times.  It's no problem You're the you're the sort of Steve Martin, I suppose of this show Right. I got a jacket in the week. Absolutely. So I'll some year at some convention. I'll have to get out the I'll have to make some custom jackets for like the the Ten Timers Club or something like that People who've been on the show that often at any rate tonight we're gonna be discussing future AOS armies strapping on the tinfoil hats and Imagining what we might see and talking about why we might see them.  So Let's talk about it. We don't have much. We got this rumor engine thing. It's a bone Scully thing with a rock in it That's what it is. It looks like a weapon. It's clearly some kind of weapon It's clearly an AOS thing. Hopefully or or one of the associated AOS products, you know, war cry What's your what's feeling here? I Guess is or at least my hope is new Mancrusher Gargant sculpt. It looks like about the right scale and style for that to me. I Had never thought of it Paul, but boy, do you do you do you just captivate my dreams with that?  I agree with you. I think that's exactly what it is. I I'm here for it.  I completely agree. No, you're absolutely right there It's a tragedy, right Because I wish they made boxes like that still when you get the giant box There's so many different ways to build it I guess to the at some extent the big giant box is the same way The man your Gargant box because you just have so many different build so many different options It's just really cool.   What do you think of this dude? Um Well, I have a little all over the place on all of this new cities and sigmar stuff. Okay Number one. I think the models look really cool. They're beautiful models Awesome. I think they would for me personally I think there would be a nightmare to paint because they have an insane amount of detail on sure Um, and I'm also a little bit mixed on it because the more that we see from this new release the more I'm like, man, are they just gonna can the entire cities of Sigmar line? Yes, and just be this now. Yes That's really what I think is gonna happen is pretty much everything's gonna be gone Yeah, like I have to by the way, that's not any inside information or anything. I don't know anything I'm just saying like absolutely as well. It should be my guess is we'll probably keep some of the ancillary other stuff what I mean there is like the Um like the Dwarves and the dark elves and stuff like that because they won't they won't redial the dude redo the This is my thought process. They won't redo the dark elves until they have a Malarian army which we'll talk about that later on as well But I think everything sort of pseudo human human related city related. Yeah, that's all getting completely redone Maybe some dwarf stuff too. I don't know I love this guy. Let me tell you why I love this guy. Do you remember the light? It is do you remember the like? What was he called like the? something breaker rat ogre in 8th edition skaven you had a rat ogre with a palisade thing on his back and a claw lord in it love that love the idea of Small humanoid writing on a big humanoid great a plus more more of that And the the cruel boys one is cool apart from being cruel boys. Well, I mean, it's a great model. Yes I agree that the sledge raker No, he's not the sledge raker. That's um the troll Yeah, yes, he's great. He's great So I say more of that type of design a lot of people were like, oh, this isn't a chunky ogre like this dudes You know spelt and to me. That's correct. That's exactly right. This dude's been he's been he's been eaten lean Because he's living in the city. He's living that city life Uh, this is a great harken back to like the mercenary ogre type of thing of uh of old And the um the blood bowl team too, uh, their big guy is an ogre Yeah, I mean look back in the day if you had if you if you go pick up the empire Like fourth and fifth edition book both had this I don't have it right in front of me So I apologize if I'm misremembering the exact edition 92 or 96 um Ogres was a choice in that book Like you could take friendly ogres. That was a unit choice you had in the empire So like imperial ogres is not like some weird new concept. This is as this goes as far back as basically the lower Uh exists, right So I'm thrilled to see stuff like this coming back I I absolutely man if you live in a city And you got money and that people will take money or food to fight for you. Like yeah, let's bring them all in You know what I mean? So, yeah Uh, so yeah, it's pretty cool. I just hope that the the fig I hope the guy on top Is some separate piece From the ogre because otherwise it's going to be really really annoying So it'd be really hard to pay. Yeah, exactly All right, cool. But yeah, good stuff. I mean look forward to seeing more city stuff probably not too long now, honestly, I would imagine we'll Based on what they said I would I would have to imagine that this is a july release, but I guess time will tell Uh, paul, you had a you had a news item you wanted to share with everybody Yes, so I'm actually repping the shirt at the moment. Um, so, uh, I am on the board for Du Bois gt Uh, it's in Rochester, New York in, uh November Uh, it's like yeah, like mid-november Exactly shifts around from year to year Um, but this year, uh, I am working on currently, uh getting all of the rules and design and everything together for a narrative event there Um, what we're doing is, you know at that particular venue for anybody that's been there before you're probably aware There's kind of a space issue there and like we can't get as much into the space as we really would like to Um, so for the meantime before we can you know figure out, uh, maybe a bigger venue or something in the future We're doing is we're taking our Usual friday doubles event that is very common amongst a lot of gts Um, and we're going to go and make that a narrative oriented doubles event um drawing on some ideas from you know a variety of other events and um Put it all together with some of our own flair going to do You know take uh, you know some inspiration from our man steve herner doing the holy events having You know the battle plans basically like being the tables and having cool stuff and cool rules and kind of be immersive in the table um and uh Well the thing that I was actually working on like last night was uh We're going to be using anvil of apotheosis basically for like a champion For your army. Um, so i'm working on making some modifications and additions to those rules Uh, so we have you know something a little bit more interesting and fun than just Yeah, what usual annual anvil of apotheosis is Um, and then you know after it goes if it goes well this year Maybe maybe do the same next year. But um, you know, definitely doing something with it going forward and hopefully Eventually expanding this out to not just be a one day side event at a gt having it be a bigger scale um Bigger scale narrative event. That's like a multi-day thing Love it. Fantastic. Check it out. I'll link it down below And what a great segue by the by into our pick of the week. So Uh, paul what do you want to share with everybody? So there is a relatively new channel that popped up recently that i've been really enjoying his stuff a lot. Uh, the channel is called jordan sorcery Um, he's been doing a lot of videos on like warhammer history um, he's not really doing like gaming content or Or even so much like lore content. It's really just like he did a series that was like going through every edition of warhammer fantasy battles And like where the stuff came from who was involved in it. What were the changes like what like What kind of things inspired it? What was going on behind the scenes like really cool fun stuff Nice, I love that. That's I love that kind of behind the scenes or like just general history stuff Uh, that's really that's really good. Okay, cool. I'll have to check that out My shout out is going to be to friend of the channel trevarian a great guy who has a nice video He's painting up a a space marine, but it's a very but he talks about sort of the need not to Like not layer or sorry not blending basically just using layers and how you can use it to get incredible results And using different techniques of application like stippling and things like that So you can check that out linked down below Just good advice for all over painting by the way like he happens to be doing it on a space marine But there's important lessons there about frankly painting anything Uh, all right Very good.  I imagine that's taken up a lot of time Uh, yep. I'm also working on Uh, um a terrain and table project to just run like backyard events at my house doing like Like last summer I did like a mega battle and barbecue thing this year is going to be more of like an rtt sort of thing um You know building tabletoppers and putting terrain together just picked up a whole bunch over this past weekend And then in addition to that as always, um, I Haven't been playing as many games lately over the past probably like year and a half or so I really haven't been playing that much I have been painting almost every day. Okay, and um, I have I've just done a ton of work on stuff Um, and you know with this I want to throw a little challenge out there Just to see because at this point, I don't really care if I have the biggest collection I think I might and it would just be kind of a cool little crown to have So where I'm at here My maggotkin of dergel I've got the entire range that is currently available Sure, um, and my total of stuff that is painted is just over 14 000 points Pretty good I've got my slaves to darkness that is also all nergal marked All in the same paint scheme. That's another about 8 000 points. Okay And then I also have a whole bunch of scaven pestilens. That's another few thousand points So I think the total comes out to about like 24 25 000 points of nergal stuff That's quite that's quite a bit of dedication. The grandfather would be very pleased And there is it's a lot of yellow It's an awful lot of yellow And um, if I had known what yellow was going to be like to paint before I really got Going on this and committed to it. I probably would have picked a different paint scheme Yellow is terrible Yeah, it's been a lot of yellows a lot of greens a lot of purples And uh, it's been really fun I still have more to go like I'm really digging slaves to darkness stuff Keep expanding that and learning some new techniques and things to keep leveling stuff up I've got a couple of little projects here and there too. Um, that I want to do I really want to enter stuff in a capital palette this year Um at nova, so I've got a couple of projects that I'm working on for that too um Yeah, man, I'm I'm wrecking that gray. I love it. That's fantastic, dude. That's great 25 000 points of basically nergal, you know, because all in you could put all those into a single army Like that is valid with with that kind of with the point structure you've got there that all can go into a force So completely legal to set to claim that all is one army Uh, it's pretty solid. It's pretty solid. No doubt about it. That's a lot And and something to be proud of uh, I mean if you've got a thing you love that much Hey, I say go for it For myself Uh, well a couple of lots of different hobby things going on. First of all, I expanded my paint racks Obviously you can't see them. They're they're here. Um, I just hung up another one of the wall today I've got two more shelf type things So many because I've got a bunch of paints that I needed to find your home for so now I have a total of Uh, five complete of the like large nail polish racks and then Uh, five stand-up ones for smaller ones and then six of the single shelf ones Uh, so there's something Like I haven't re-totaled it, but there's something like 1300 paints around me at any given point in time. Okay, nice Uh, sometime this strange addiction will end But of course it hasn't just been that I've also been putting those paints to use And specifically, um, this has been sort of a week in the lab So I've been working on some little tau boys here. Um, this guy's a little crisis suit guy And it probably doesn't show up super well, but you can probably see other little pink lines in the in the black And so what I'm playing with and I'm I'm putting together a video for Is basically what is the best way to do this sort of he shows up a little better. He's a little brighter that one Um, what is the best way to do that sort of neon Tron panel lining right And so I experimented with a bunch of different Mixtures of things to figure out like what made it work the best How do you get because think with that strange comment? It's a lot easier when you're trying to do like sort of a traditional recess shading Like if you're just trying to drop black into a recessed line like that's not hard There's a million products to do that there's panel liners and oil washes and Million different things right? It's not hard But when you're trying to get like an ultra bright color Amidst something dark it actually is a lot more challenging And so I wanted to know what was the way we could sort of navigate that and I I've tried out three different Mixtures, I guess of different weird things and I think I came to one I really like so the third time was a charm and uh, that's actually this guy. He came out like the the absolute brightest and Yeah, so So pretty pretty cool. I think that'll be a video probably next month sometime. So Um, but yeah, I've got many many little towel boys here because they're all my little experiments So many of the little crisis suits and stuff like that Getting together a nice little force of towel for tenth edition. I'm just waiting on a new aos army to grab me I have too many of them now. That's the problem. I have to expand into other games uh All right, what you're gonna do is you're gonna take a towel army Paint them all with like new balance sneakers cargo shorts and like driving Lamborghinis So you can have your midlife crisis seats. Yeah, indeed. Sure. Absolutely Uh, I mean they are pretty sweet robits and I do love robits Uh, so, you know, and I'm sure that I'm sure I'll eventually just get more and more of those little guys all right Let's uh, let's move on to our main topic for the day Uh, which is new armies for aos 4.0 Okay, let's talk about the history of this very quickly here Paul, let's talk about New armies in general. I went back and had a glance before I put this together At what's new so I'm gonna quiz you paul. He didn't know this was coming, but here we go Real-time quiz. What are the new armies that were introduced? in aos and win Broadly defined not I don't need like a year a month just like win addition wise Were they introduced? Let's see paul. How many can you get? um So what are we counting as being new armies? Are we talking about like total new model line launches? For this, let's talk completely new force Okay, like if they used one sculpt to build off of it like one sculpt worked its way in that still counts Okay, but a redesign would not Okay, so obviously the first one was Uh, stormcast eternals in first edition. There we go. Good. Yep. Absolutely cut from whole cloth Defines the the entire game The golden boys of sigmar himself the thunder warriors from from azir.  I agree with this um, then we got uh The ever-chosen release with archaion verand guard and gaunt summoner that was at least at the time its own book It was but that was also from also for men times because all those do like To there's a there's a mix of stuff there, but okay for all new sculpts for aos though, uh the The way that the book was put together like the gaunt summoner had been released earlier So I guess we can count it's only like three miles. I'm not gonna count it as a whole army So but yes, okay fair enough And then on the heels of that fire slayers Yep They were like the fur like one of the first really big Trying to make a big deal out of it releases and that has you know fallen pretty flat over time Sure. Um, let's think through here. You're doing great so far Yeah, um What else was first edition? There's whatever there's there's another big one. It's very it came out very soon after this year. Oh iron jaws. There it is There it is You got it. Absolutely Yep You got iron jaws and then you have one that like we could sort of count or sort of not like again It absorbed a decent amount of figures, but it had a lot of net new And that's silveneth So I wouldn't have I wouldn't have hit you if you didn't count them because obviously we brought over all the tree lords And everything like that, but we also got an andraya. Yeah, but we got a lot of like new sculpts too at the same time Okay, good. Good. Yes. Absolutely. And then later on We have one more in the 1.0 time frame And it was the one that shook everything up the most because not only was it very different But it also then necessitated a uh It also then necessitated a general's handbook rewrite Okay in the middle to change a war scroll that caused the most outrage in the history of sort of outrage That would be caradron overlords. Yeah, there you go. That's right now Then we breach into 2.0 with eidneth deepkin, right? So now again technically I think it was like basically a tail end 1.0 beginning of 2.0 book. It came out right on the breach there effectively um But you know, so that was a net new force. We had so many new forces as we define it as world right Okay, then we get to 2.0 So formal 2.0. Can you think of their I'll tell you right now. There are basically two armies Two net new armies in 2.0 Well, definitely obr. Well, that was later on um Feel like we could almost say night hot because that it had a lot of new sculpts in it Um, but then again, there was some a lot of old stuff in there too Yeah, I put that one to the side because it broke our rules for too many things I'm allowing like one sculpt to come in for for net new But there and given there was a lot of new stuff there to me night Hot was like a silvanet type of thing, right where it was like it's an expansion of a concept Uh lumeneth. There you go. There you go. Yep, the big one lumeneth Uh And and so I mean we could also include night hot if we wanted like we could call it two and a half or two And three quarters or something like that, right? I would be okay with that uh and then there's one more that that is That I I wouldn't have formally busted you because it only because one sculpt only one sculpt came over But the line only has one of two Yes, I but the line has like two model kits total so yes And that's obviously sun's a bad month, right? So when we got our giants Okay So that was a you know, again, let's call it. I don't know how you want to call they had two total sort of net new two that were kind of expansions uh buildouts redesigns, I don't know. However, you want to think about it, right? um That sort of thing Yeah Uh, and then obviously then we get to 3.0 And uh Paul what's been going on in 3.0, buddy? We're we're two years into this here And uh, we started off with cruel boys, which is like effectively its own army, but technically we'll count that cruel boys. Yeah um What else have we gotten relatively recently? Um That's the end of the list my dog. That's it. Yeah, like we've had a lot of big line like redesigns um Like there's been no shortage of new models or anything like that. It's just we haven't gotten anything really like Entirely new army in quite a while. Yep Uh, Dan said how many old kits was doc? Well, actually quite a few just because the nature of what it was now I love doc doc had a lot of net new things as well But it was more like a silveness situation because you got witch elves and sisters both came over You've got both the cauldrons. You've got all the heroes that I just say all the non malusai heroes, right? So you had the hag queen the slaughter queen slaughter queen on cauldron hag queen on cauldron all all of which are built out of like one kit right And then net new obviously you've got the the malusai the canary and uh, oh, sorry. You also had the um Uh dark writers or whatever come over the those guys the doomfire warlocks Did you forget because nobody plays them? Yeah, exactly and uh, and then of course you you know, we've got the snake people the bat people and Marathi herself who were the sort of net new kids Um, yes ramion. We did mention idenath. They were they were sort of the breaching line between 1.0 or 2.0 I would have counted them in either frankly because they were like right on that release bubble Uh, so 3.0 so far Haven't seen a lot which as you said if this this edition has been more about redesigns Right, like we got a completely refreshed seraphon. We're going to get the completely refreshed cities of sigmar Right, uh so um, we got uh sold light had a huge Uh, you know relaunch of a lot of their models absolutely right new zombies new skeletons lots of new models infused into the line Yeah, huge through through pseudo oops Curse city doesn't work. I guess this all just becomes sold light normal book stuff. But yeah, sure. Absolutely. Um S2d had a bunch of kits redesigned new demon prints new chosen, right? So like Um, we've seen a lot of redesigns in this edition Uh But we we keep getting the uh obligatory periodic storm cast chamber Of course. Yes. Yes every time we always manage to get some new storm cast chamber. That's exactly right So so we've got a history here of sort of three different things going on Maybe four. I don't know One net new just like cut from whole cloth Where were they before who knows they were around Now they're here right We have expansion sometimes built literally from a single model Right fire slayers. You could argue iron jaws built out of hard boys and stuff like that sometimes built out of more Sylvaneth night haunt, right? And then you have this other category that is Just redesign slash addition, right? Like we're in a re-sculpt redesign update refresh Excuse me, okay, so Those are kind of our three categories We're going to use that as the springboard For this so I want to start by asking a basic question before we get into the the armies themselves Do you think Have we reached Maximum army saturation Can we still have like we got 24 25 arms? Yeah, I think actually you can do everything in uh, maw tribes is separate. I think it's 27 Yeah, which I don't but okay Fair enough. Yeah, if you're one book you're one book I'm even counting all the work stuff as one, but but sure. I get what you mean Uh So have we reached the end of the road like it should be cue the boys to men Uh, because there's just there's no more room. The mortal realms are full. No new armies um, I think I think they have to be careful at this point because there's just a lot out there already I think they're going to do it less frequently than what we have gotten previously Um, but on the flip side of that, I think they're going to put a lot of effort into what they do release so that it's Very successful, especially compared to Really releases that were not so successful. Yeah, sure. Nobody wants to repeat fire slayers, right? I mean, that's what we're talking about.  It's always been trash Right.  It's if you're lucky Uh, okay So and I agree with uh Babouzek who said a ton of armies need a second wave. Sure. I love love expansions But I think that will come like that's not That's not We're leaving that out of the discussion because I think they've shown they're kind of willing to do that along in the Course of a normal release gets is a good example of that in the in 3.0, right where it was like Gits had a lot of models already Like net knew they didn't even add that many kits when you compare to how many scrolls they had Right, but they got a bunch of new stuff nonetheless. That was just in the course of their normal book release And I think we'll still see that kind of crap happen Sometimes it'll be a new hero. Sometimes it'll be like here's a new hero in a new infantry unit and a new kit and you know, whatever, right? Okay Cool I I agree. I don't think that the ship is full, but I think they do need to be careful That's why I think we're gonna we're gonna do it like this paul We're going to assume that for 4.0 Basically, we get one net new army And one redesign now. Hopefully we get more than that Okay, but we're going to assume that and we're going to make our picks Out of our list plus what the audience comes up with as to what we think should be the one Who's getting the golden ticket? Okay all right Okay Uh So Oops. All right. Let's start with the obvious ones. I found this picture when I just googled the word obvious It's a lot of fun. It's a wet floor sign on the bottom of the ocean. I thought that was fine Okay, this is where I get that's this is where we get the high quality presentations that I put together Google Uh, you may have heard of it. It's an up and coming Company, uh, all right Alone a little known. Yeah, exactly Uh, okay Let's start about the obvious ones. These are things that we've gotten lots of hints toward Right that that like we know There are leaders who are around we might have gotten like actual pseudo models for this army In other armies Right, so malaria and elves or the umbraneth or whatever we're going to call them Right, we know that these folks right here are basically a representative of that army We know malaria is around he shows up in a ton of the stories talking to his mom Right, they have they have a really weird uncomfortable tension in all of their narratives uh, and so What what about these elves paul? What do you think about malaria and elves the umbraneth?  I mean, I think Let me try and do this from like gw financial math situation. Sure. Um Loom enough really popular really successful There's a cane really popular really successful. Okay. Okay. Um following so that equals another cool dark elfish line that has some of like the Maybe gameplay kind of elements taking off of what's going on with lumeneth um Seems like that would be a pretty likely one to me that like that seems like that would print money All the emo darkness But with all of the high elf elf sculpting they love to do Yeah Um, I agree this one feels fairly likely to me I would also put the odds on this because We've gotten some clues that we're going to be going To the realm of shadow in the next edition right Should be awesome because that sounds like that would have so much Stuff that you could pull out for cool rules and cool battle packs and yeah Yeah, I mean, we know we're living one realm per edition Right. We got we started in oxy then we went to gairan now. We're in ger. All right. So next up shadow. Okay fine. All right Or fire beasts Or sorry fire life beasts shadow. There you go. That would be the appropriate way to say that um Would they pull the existing range out from c os? Uh greasy pan ham. First of all excellent name Secondly, I don't know maybe Maybe not Like they could always leave that and say like that's there and that's just going to stay in in cities Or they could always extract the force back out. I don't know. I guess we'll find out My prediction is that it is going to be pulled out of cities Like I think almost the entire model line of cities is going to be tossed And it's just going to be basically humans and miscellaneous other stuff going forward. Okay I my money's for them to keep the the dark elves in cities for now until these guys release And then I think they'll make a decision about whether or not those troops just kind of like Migrate or could they be in both forces, you know, because malaria is always looking to play both sides as it were I don't know but Uh, these guys to me feel like the odds on favorite like if I was a betting man And you said let's place the safest bet possible right I would definitely I would pick these guys Feels like it aligns with the realm Aligns with figs. You've already seen with a character that we know is relevant and active and stuff like that Uh, and then we've been hinting around that for a long long long long long Long time Okay Okay All right, how should these like if we do this? What do you want to see Paul? What do you want to see in malarian zelt? Um, what's your what's this release look like in your mind? I would really love for them to just really lean into the whole shadow thing, I think Uh, you know the image that you have up there like that aesthetic would be amazing to have a whole army event sure Um, and I think you know mechanically I would really love to see them Work off of like, you know the mists the shadows not being able to see them You know have a lot of shenanigans with like hiding in terrain and popping off the edge of the board and all the porting around um Yeah, like maybe like assassins and stuff like that. Maybe make some good actual assassins. Yeah, some good foot assassins. Yeah, absolutely Uh, I mean I agree. I'll tell you right now I would love it if I I think this could be an army that doesn't really have any huge centerpieces other than malarian himself Um, who should be on like a shadow dragon or turn into a shadow dragon or something like that? Um, most of this could just be assassin type elves, you know, like Uh, I would love it if this had like a high power per square inch kind of a leadish army Uh, I agree with you completely on the jumping in and out of shadows like using a lot a lot of terrain interaction I think would be really cool Um, also another thing they could play with if we're talking about thematic elements Is remember malarian runs the the gladiatorial arena In on space station sigmar.  That'd be pretty cool. Yeah, and there's a lot of really cool different. Um There were different like eating styles in uh, the old, uh, roman gladiator arenas like that also went with like Costume aesthetics and things like that. So I think there'd be a lot there that they could really pull out of and have Some cool callbacks to real life stuff to inspire things and put, you know, the natural aos twist on it Really cool.  It's still it's still air. It's yes. Thank you spicy air is a great way to put that But yes, no no spicy air, please and yeah, mr. Lee mech shop said shadow knights 100% i'm down for that Give me some ghostly shadow horses Yes Uh I'm in for that and yes. Hades. I'm not saying the army. I'm saying like a unit. Yeah, sure You have like the trained gladiator unit that came out of that thing, right that he can recall So seems cool. Well, you got like some assassins people want to fight stealth You got some people who want to hit hard and go straightforward be a nice little kind of an interesting multi-path army You could follow uh, which would suit to the sort of dual nature of of malarian himself He's always like again. He's he's like the classic plays all the angles Guy in the stories like that. He's always Like helping but also spying but also working against like he's betting on always covering all his bets So, yeah Okay, cool Uh, all right Baboom next up Chaos dwarves Okay Okay, paul again.  They looked dumb. They were bad I like that that failure alone might have just sealed the fate of chaos dwarves because those look so bad And everybody was like, no, we don't like it. Do not want uh So, I think that might have also been people being mad that they saw the Spoiler page that was floating around that said horns of hash it and everybody was like, we're getting a chaos dwarf warband And then it was definitely not chaos dwarves. And I think everybody was mad. Yep. Yeah totally totally mind boggling right that whole situation Uh as to like why you would create the horns of a shit and then make them a human warband It's so weird but Of all the mysterious choices they've made that's That's high up there it is um so chaos dwarves Obviously have a long and storied pedigree In warhammer, right? They've been around for a while. It's way back in the day early editions Uh when when the whole concept was just take a good thing and staple chaos on front of it Um, but they have a neat look Yeah, no, nothing wrong with that. That's that's that's a lot of warhammer IP Okay But like, you know, they've got this long story pedigree. They have some neat units Uh, there's a lot to draw on there that you could imagine Uh them being really excited to redo Uh to make new versions of those models The war machines being a huge part of it, but not the only part of it You know, their little centaur dudes and stuff would also be really fun to redo like all that kind of stuff Um, they're also a very sort of industrial technical To be frank shooty race in chaos or a shooty, um, uh faction in chaos, which is unusual Obviously only this gave and kind of match that right So they have a little bit of an interesting play style and they've been mentioned in the lore like they show up in a lot of the the Uh, the books they do get mentioned as like they they're out there. They occupy The forges and stuff in the eight points like it's they've been talked about so it's not as though This is some unknown quantity right uh, so What's your odds on these guys? What do you think? What do you think of cast wars in general fall? Um I think they're cool. I I think they're it's a cool idea um, I think part of the problem that we would run into is that Um, if we kind of stick with the concept of what chaos dwarfs have been in the past Um, it feels very much like it would just be chaosed up chara drawn overlords. Yeah, sure sure And I it makes me wonder if they would be able to really produce enough of a unique aesthetic and theme to have it just Not feel like chaos with spikes and skulls. Sure Um, maybe some funny hats sure You know, I think that is kind of part of the problem there. Um So obviously we have that the overt reference to hashet who was the god that the chaos dwarves were worshiping Um Is it been mentioned in the lore whether they're still all about hashet?  Like so that's fine. Yeah I think Will we get chaos dwarf models of some type at some point in the future? I think so Okay, um, I don't think we're gonna get an independent army of them um, might we get uh You know a war cry war band or two that gets stapled onto slaves to darkness or Maybe something else if they make it make sense. I think sure Uh, I see the odds of a full army of that I think is pretty low Okay, okay So you've got lower odds on this one. I I think this one's I I would tend to agree with you I see this is less than 50 50 in 4.0, but it also wouldn't surprise me if it happens Right, uh, like they have dropped enough Uh, they've dropped enough hints. They've dropped enough little mentions. We saw this the you know, the humans They talked about them in the narrative If it were to come out, I think it could be a very successful range And and I don't think it has to be like just correct or an overlord's but the evil or something like that By the way, um spikes skulls and funny hats could literally just be the subtitle of warhammer in general right Like it could just be like warhammer spikes skulls and funny hats check it out play it now um But I think these guys could absolutely still work just because they do have like the weird monsters. They do have the Demons that are pressed into service with them Uh, so that opens up a lot of space to to to do a lot of interesting things with the sculpts and you know Yes, there is some similarity there between their quote-unquote vehicles and the ko's vehicles but you know big giant cannons or or or uh hell trains or stuff like that, um You know like you can you can split that up separate enough and and not make it feel like it has to be the frigate And or or an ironclad or something like that and the way you do that is you just make them more firmly artillery that just kind of chugs around and and is it meant to be like up Transports, you know taking up being the sort of focal point of how the army operates as far as in terms of mobility, right? um so Like I I think there is enough room here for these guys in the in the narrative in the lore in the model range um and I you know I think this would be a fun Just a really fun addition To me if they were going to do this they'd make a real big deal out of it Okay, what I mean by that is like this would launch like the sister's a battle launched Right Where it have like its gift box is what would what it would start with and you know yada yada yada this big This this sort of like I don't mean they do the year-long design process build up. Maybe maybe not but I mean like they would launch this with that kind of a situation because it would be another like return to a A thing that you all keep saying you really like And so we're going to trust you and believe you and you better buy this and so we're going to hype it up and try to Squeeze all the all the money out of you can over your nostalgia Right Yeah, exactly. I by the way, I don't think that's a bad idea like sure.  Okay um But yeah, I mean, I think I I would put these guys at like I don't know four to one whereas malarian's elves feel like two to one to me something like that, right? Okay, I think One of the things that I really wonder if gw's doing with their lore writing at this point is I think it was one of the things that was done like in the harry potter series Yeah, you just see probably Yeah, you seed stuff all over the place and you just mention all of these random things And then you pull the threads together later that you want to and you look like a genius that planned all of this stuff But if you look there were so many throwaway things that were put in there that you ignored Like it could just be that they could just be sprinkling stuff around to see what threads they're going to pull later I think that's exactly right is the short answer to the question like I think that's exactly what they're doing Yes, I mean like, you know sig bald was teased with a single line and a couple mentions, you know from here and there, but like That's just stuff you can write in and then come back to later, right? So you just make a little little note of all that Yeah, absolutely Okay, cool All right, let's go next Tyrion's elves yet again, we've had sort of a representative of Tyrion's forces show up Uh, we have his his like this isn't they're like both Altharion to some degree and then but also the uh, Leer Leeran or the other one whatever the named guy on horse antelope He's actually part of Tyrion's force not not tecklaces for us Um, he's just like left-handed or whatever but uh Tyrion's elves the other half of the elves we know this is sitting out there Yet again, this has been teased. This has been talked about in the narrative This has been set up. We Tyrion again goes all the way back to The beginning of you know, aos 1.0 We got introduced to all the new gods all the heroes of the last the last time around the cycle Right all this has happened before and all this will happen again kind of thing and uh We Like this feels an inevitability Eventually, right like this. This is this is the Thanos snap of I am inevitable right here Uh, so but what is this? What do you think about Tyrion's elves? I think them happening is About as close to a hundred percent as we can reasonably get without actually having uh Spies in gw sure um But I I really wonder if they would actually be their own army or if they are just next wave of luminous Ah, there we go. And there in lies the rub, right? Is this just effectively a big expansion of the luminous? Let's call it an additional Let's say conservatively 10 or 11 war scrolls okay Is this just 10 or 11 war scrolls added to luminous because it uses the same core Right so like wardens and sentinels and and the writers dawn writers and so on right But then they have their Tyrannic units instead of the teclean units, right that sort of solidifies it the other, you know other elemental elementary Focuses and stuff or does this become its own force? I think you're right. I I well, I don't know if you're again I don't know if you're saying this or not But but my feeling is this is an illuminate expansion. It's not its own force Yeah, I think maybe Maybe it would kind of ride the line and end up being sort of like the um Of the orc more op the orc war clients book Sure sure You can see it being somewhere between orcs and ogres as you mentioned, right?  And they just they're all just like these sort of martial champions Right. Yeah That that kind of feels the right Take on it to me um You know that kind of thing Chase said new dragon princes dragon mages phoenix guard lothar and sea guard two Two wizards a water monster a new anointed on phoenix. Yeah, I don't think they'd be that direct chase I really don't like just because they they haven't been they weren't that exact with the the representation of the The tecly inside so I don't think they're going to go and look and say, okay, let's remake dragon princes Will they make a heavy night? Yeah, probably that would make sense for tearyon, right? Like absolutely. There's a heavy night That's kind of filling the same thematic role as dragon princes, but they could just easily be like yak cavalrymen or something like that Yeah, and I think they did a really good job with that in lumineath where they made stuff that like It's clearly all calls back to high elves But it's still very much its own thing Yeah Yeah, like fundamentally, it's occupying almost a similar pseudo role silhouette Something right like martin Rolando said the river temple unit is a successor to the loathar and sea guard. Yeah, like maybe maybe they have like Some new multi You know purpose because the loathar and sea guard was like they could both fight and melee and shoot like that Was part of their their thing right so maybe they have a new multi-purpose Unit that does both some ranged engagement and so on Okay, got it. Then we're on the same page chase. I agree um So, yeah, I I think that they're they're often like echoing they're playing the george lucas Right, it's like poetry at rhymes right Okay, cool. Good. Yeah, but I think you're right. I don't think this is a whole new army. I think Okay, here's the question Is this a 4.0 thing? What what are your odds you think of seeing this in 4.0? of seeing this expansion We're on what our bird Lumineth book already. I mean technically fourth, but sure Yeah, fourth lumineth book in three years Yeah, we're getting more Coming in four out for sure I would put money on this happening in 4.0 I could see this depending on like if if we got malaria Then I could see this at either the very end of the addition like coming in hot at the end as like the A sort of like light answer to the dark if that happened early Or I could see this being delayed and kicked into like fifth edition right But there we're talking about like it's wild to think about that but that would mean like 20 27 plus is what we're talking about there, which sounds a long way away, but We won't be sadly we all get older Yeah I believe we're already talking about the fourth edition of the age of sigmar tempest fugit my friend. Okay. Yeah All right Uh new storm cast chamber anyone Because of course Okay legit question Are we going to get a new storm cast chamber? in 4.0 So far we're three for three sure with new edition new storm cast chamber. Yeah, true. That's a true statement Plus we had the extremist chamber in the middle of first edition. Yep Um, and then didn't wasn't there another release too in there somewhere?  I just can't even remember anymore. Sure. There's a lot I mean, yes, because you're also thinking of the vanguard guys or whatever. So you've got like yeah I'm thinking of extremist thing in a vanguard. Then you've got sacrosanct and then you've got Um, uh thunder strike. Okay, but anyways, go ahead. So obviously they are just the central protagonist of all of age of sigmar I feel like they have to have a major new release basically with every new launch box for a new edition that comes out um, I don't it's like How many new edition releases have been there for 40k? That didn't have space marines Okay Sure, it's rare. It's rare. It's happened, but it's rare Yeah, I mean 10 editions. I would think that they would have had to happen at some point. Um, but I I guess the question is is like, what do they even do at this point with storm cast? I think they Are practically obligated to do it at this point And I don't even know where they go from here. I mean the answer is The easy answer is tanks. Obviously make storm cast tanks. You cowards.  Um But Here's here's my here's my honest answer. Okay. I'm going to take the under on this one Which is I don't think we will get a new Uh full storm cast release in for blue I don't think it'll be in the launch box And I don't think It will we'll get like will we get new storm cast models in a os 4.0?  There's a statue of this guy out front Okay Of the build and really at this point it when was the last time we got a book release that didn't have at least one new model Like you know, exactly. So like yes, of course, there's gonna be some new new storm cast okay, uh and so I think that There will be like some new models, but I don't think we're going to really expand it I mean, I I tend to agree with I don't coach mentioned it like some point back um the The the challenge is is that we're already pushing it on scrolls like there are So many scrolls So like they might add a couple more special units or a new hero or something like that or a new unit That would just fit into thunder strike like they'll keep building on the thunder strike stuff for a while You know what I mean? um, I could see all of that uh but I just don't think we're going to to really see um Like a major storm cast expansion like we have in in in the previous editions Have whatever that means Okay, and my my my under call is I don't think they'll be in the launch box. I really don't So There you go Yeah, I mean I could see the launch box being Malarion's elves versus Whoever the antagonist of the next season is going to be Maybe scaven Absolutely Hades, you might be the only person who doesn't like thunder strike more than the original fat cast I just want you to know that I appreciate I respect your opinion aesthetics are deeply personal But I would I take thunder strike guys over the original fat cast every day Uh, I love the thunder strike look Um, it brings closer to the original John Blanchard Yeah Uh, look, I mean like what you like as always man, it's it's all good everybody had like aesthetic is a deeply personal thing Well, like I the original John Blanchard for storm cast where they were these like pretty thin cutting figures Really sharp. I just thought they I thought that was fantastic And I wish they had built on that more than a sort of fat Dudes we ended up getting Okay All right That's not me weight shaming though. I'm not saying they're overweight. I'm saying their armor cuts up too wide of a silhouette for my tastes Okay Uh, all right, let's talk about army redesigns Okay, yes All right We're gonna pause in the middle Uh, and we're gonna go for Army redesigns and let's start with our our in my mind And certainly the truth With the army that needs a redesign more than any other army currently in aos And that is skaven now you might ask yourself vince Why is this guy here? Why why for skaven? Did you pick this model? Why did you pick this plague lord scroll or as you might know at the current plague priest? Okay And The answer is because this is still the current model for this thing And this model was released in january I'll be conservative Release a little earlier in the uk but but the actual release date is marked as january of 1993 It's the 20 years old cw.  I wish I wish this was 20 years old my dog This is 30 years old it turns 30 it turned 30 this year 30 Year old model drink when age of sigmar started Uh Yeah, yeah, yeah Absolutely, correct. Um Okay, so no, I will say Or it's age Sure, that's still a really nice sculpt. Scroke is a nice model. Yes Uh, now I will say the other the second oldest model. This by the way, it's the oldest model in age signal Still in the normal books The second oldest model is also a skaven model And that is the poison wind globed here the the fat dude who came out Like two months later. So it's also the same age And also the same Uh That sculpt did not hold up as well as what I'm trying to say Uh, so yes 1993 The real question is how many people who are watching this show right now Are younger than this model? Okay, it's got to be a decent percentage. I've looked at the statistics on my channel the analytics Some of you are younger than this model So there we go, um All right, yes the scryer acolyte now that's the new new name for the wind globed here At any rate, look, it's not just that skaven are littered up and down with these models That are just like ancient Just beyond ancient, okay uh And I love the mix right now in the chat of people saying I was younger or I bought that model in 93 That's great. That's great Uh Wonderful, uh, I love it. I love it um So This really is just like but this is just the most telling example all up and down the line You have things that haven't been redesigned for years Right, uh, even the new models in that range quote Outside of what came in the end times are basically 20 years old A lot of them are like the 2004 wave that period 2004 to 2006 there's a pretty good wave of of redesigns that happen there. These things tend to come in in waves And so like even a lot of the quote unquote newer plastics are from that time period They're they're approaching 20 years. They'll celebrate 20 years by the time for four launches some of them will So to me This is just the range like This is it. Uh, yeah, Giselle's are ancient. I don't remember their exact release date, but yes, they're ancient So I mean Paul any any is there any force you would pick Beyond skaven to get a complete redesign Hey, I think they're the most likely to okay.  You don't see a lot of you know humanoid rats in fantasy stuff It's certainly around. I know it's like in d&d and various other things But in terms of like that more like pop-cultury fantasy stuff, it's not really there much. Yeah um, so it has I think It has a lot of fairly unique character to what borehammer is and they have been very important in Plot of Warhammer for a really long time Like whenever they need a plot device Whenever they need a mcguffin to make a thing happen Here comes skaven. They're gonna burrow a hole into the bottom of an ocean drain sure like it Whenever you need a random thing happen the skaven are there. Yep, and I know like they they're also I think some very necessary comic relief to the setting If we didn't have stuff like skaven and gits and orcs and um, I guess From my perspective nervel but like like because nerlings are hilarious and beasts are hilarious. Sure Um, but without those few things like this is a really dark depressing setting, but they add a little bit of levity to it. Sure. Sure. Um You know it adds Some levity to the gameplay it goes into like a niche of psychographic profiles that are a little bit underserved I think Warhammer like there's not a lot of um Risk like taking big risks for a reward.  The only army that does that They have such a such a uniquely defined clear obvious fun play style, right? And there's like oh, there's a group of people as you mentioned that like Me for example, but many others do where that just hits. It just hits perfectly right in the center, right? Yeah, by the way, the answer to the question is when did Giselle's release the answer there was April 2002 Went ahead and looked it up real quick April 2002. So congratulations Giselle's you can also now legally drink How much of the Skaven range can legally By alcohol is shocking shocking Uh, so let me just say nine rounds from all the storm cast Uh, yeah, yeah, no joke babies by comparison Okay Uh, all right, so Skaven to me. I agree This feels like the odds on favorite for the redesign and moreover, I've put my money down on this before I'll put it down again This is my fourth edition launch box army Uh, I think Skaven are the one we've cycled through a lot of chaos crap Like let's it's like we went chaos Uh, whatever we want to cast death destruction. It's time to get back to cast We've done a lot of other cast stuff Time to get into the the Skaven. That's it. Okay army number two If you're making the call What is the plot point you think that they are going to be involved in to get them to be like the launch box thing? Uh Being in will goo and it'll be an eschen led thing Like they'll lead with the eschen redesign first since that's a lot of the oldest kits Like the gutter runners, by the way, we're like a month after that. They're like may 2002 So Um, those are also a similar ancient sculpt So there's plenty of reason to have eschen there mixing it up in the In the in in it'll do stuff like that in the realm of shadows. So yeah, I think that's I think that's you lead with that Ninja rats are cool super great launch box Then you kick out the rest of the stuff for the range Jobs are good I really hope they push it like I want to see new stuff from every clan I really do and and by the way, they can bend a bunch of old scrolls. I'm fine with it You know what I mean? Like it's cool. We can trim the range. I have everything painted I've I've lost stuff out of Skaven before I've lost entire armies before I want playable solid armies I don't care if I lose a unit or two. I've painted. Oh, no, that's life. I've gotten It's like I've gotten my money's worth You know So we're we're good. We're good if you painted them and enjoyed painting them and then put them on the shelf In for a lot of people that's getting your money's worth. Yeah, you're you're valid right there But I mean, well, you're absolutely right and I completely agree with that, but I've obviously gone well beyond that So just hundreds of games and countless hours. So yeah, I'm good. Okay Uh, all right, next up the other army that that could also be due for redesign beasts of chaos Uh, boc Paul, I want you to I want you to take the lead on this one. I think you probably have a bigger passion on this than me What would you see this redesign as if this was going to happen? um Number one, there are so many old derpy sculpts in that army. Yep um the gore the ungore the ungore raiders like They're bad They're just they're in the same kind of vein of derpiness is like the uh chaos marauders um And you have like the Dragon ogres and the dragon ogre shaggoth that are like those are real old models aren't those all metal too Well, the um, I think the shaggoth actually comes in in fine cast now, but that's no better Like all the all the shaggoths I ever metal because I always pick up the metal ones if I can find them Uh, I a couple years back at adept con. They were selling at like the bit sky They were selling the metal shaggoth for 20 bucks a piece and they had like three of them. I was like, well I'm a buyer Yeah If you just go through like the whole range it there's not a lot of sculpts that have really That really still look that good from the old stuff um, and they've explored pretty well into like the new zangor look awesome Sure the new uh slangor Those are really nice despite having terrible war scrolls. Sure. Um, but like look wise exceptionally cool models Awesome models great. Um, so I think what would actually be really cool Is to dig more into what they've already had success with Um, you know, give us our pesta gore back and give us our quarter gore back Um, I think the the best a gore that they They currently have like those models are pretty decent. I think they've held up pretty well But so much of the rest of the range is just like You need new stuff Like it does not look like it fits with the aos aesthetic anymore You drag it over is by the way 2013 Yeah So 10 years old not crazy That's not too crazy, but no Like cockatrice Oh shabberslam. Sure. Oh god. Yes.  Like, yeah You can do better. There's there's so much room in this range For redesign. I completely agree. Like I think the best gore hold up the best of all of them, which is I suppose Either ironic or not ironic. I don't know Um, but either way that they're still nice skills. They could be a lot better A lot better Well, like I agree with you on the gore the young gore. A lot of this stuff just really shows its age And what really disappoints the hell a lot of me is I uh, I recently picked up some uh, the old metal pester gore Um, because of course I did because it's nerdy stuff. Yes, sir. And uh Those are great models Like obviously they're not like they're not quite up to like age of sigmar current standards, of course Like they're so much better than stuff in the current beast of chaos range Oh much better Yeah, I I mean like I tend to agree that that's the avenue that that is at least a rich vein to explore Because we've already done it with two of them That is to say we we have our our slan gore and our um And our zangor and they both they there's a unit that doubles up in multiple armies, right? I mean, we obviously that exists in two armies So like again, hence why I say it wouldn't be that weird for malaria and zelves to have the same thing where you've got like Here's their here's these troops here and these other troops here Like you could in cities and in malaria and zelves like if chaos can do it order can do it too There's there's plenty of precedent for it um When we've seen them take a crack at new beast men in things like Underworlds were bands and stuff or or whatever like, you know, the the ancillary products is what I should say They look great They do a really good job with them. And so I think some mix between like Redesigning the monsters so they're really up to scale up to snuff and and just up to par really with the current Uh way that that like monsters look I think it's a huge part of it because the monsters of chaos being in beast is such a big deal And a bunch of their monsters are just underwhelming goofballs Uh, and that's that's just not cool These things are supposed to be the like some really terrifying chaos monsters rampaging the countryside And you look at these guys and you're like Sure, you're scary You know, yeah between that A focus on expansion into the like as you said Pestigore and corn agor right And redesigns of the core the core gore Right the core agor In other words gore on gore and invest gore. I think you'd have just a really really tight range um This is one I I'd love to see uh You know nearly a bottom-up redesign on um I think there's a couple things that could carry over but but for the most part we're talking about Binning pretty much this whole this whole range and and and building it from the ground up Now question is do we how far back do we go? Pull in some interesting ideas. We bring back The ostrich beast man Oh, sure. Yeah, you go back to like the the late 80s early 90s when you had the real wackadoo animal-infused beast man Yeah, sure Those were fun I mean they obviously found an aesthetic they locked into a little tighter since that time But here's what I'll say. I wouldn't be opposed to having some especially if we especially if you did them as Uh, potentially pseudo elite units of like some more AOS infused Beast creatures so like not just sort of like take an animal and slam it together with a person Right, but like take an AOS creature and and humanize it in some way. I think could be could be a thing to explore Uh, you know just like really out there weird stuff Um, I think could be fun. Absolutely. There's a lot of weird animals Uh, as it were like traditional sort of beasts In the AOS world so Yeah now I think the scaven one is a lock for 4.0 personal feeling. I just I believe this in my soul because I have to Uh, it is the deepest of copium Do you think this is the kind of thing we would get? both scaven and beast man In the same edition um You know, I don't know If we would get a Total full redesign of both okay, um Could we get say You know a major redesign of one of them and get a Smallish release updating sculpts for the other one Yes, I think we could do that. Yeah, I agree I agree and that almost be a shame like depending on what was captain. What was jettisoned, right? Again, like if we had to keep bestigores, I don't know that I'd fight it too hard So like there's there's some things that are negotiables in the range like all the zine stuff should obviously stay, of course and you know, but like There's I That could very easily become underwhelming is what I'll say, but but I think you're right. I think the the two full Redesigns feels very unlikely to me So either we get like a partial workup of these guys in 4.0 or they just got to wait their turn They got to wait till the the till 5.0. So you're talking like 2028. They they finally get their due Right something like that Okay, cool Uh, all right Long shots see how many people get this particular slide uh But all right, let's talk about the long shots These are things that could could be new armies Uh, but You know, it's a little more It's a little more out there. Okay all right long shots Combined Dourden one of the way like you mentioned paul having too many different armies We mentioned the failure of fire slayers. We've talked about this over and over again It keeps not happening But it could tomorrow is always a new day Right some what the turkey wakes up happy and fed every day except one day Uh, so is this the addition I've I've put in this cool golem here because I think if they ever did this I'd want I want cool. I want cool dwarven golems Um, but is this a thing that happens in 4.0? Do we get combined Dourden? You know, I could see it Not as a battle tone Right, I could see it in some sort of narrative supplement Maybe like we had with Uh broken realms where you get it like toward the end of an addition like you had legion of the first prince it was Now this other quasi army that's off to the side pulling stuff in from other armies I could see them doing that. Um Now you come up with a decent plot reason to do it and there it is Um, I don't think they're going to merge those into one book. Um despite how Happy the flat fire slayer situation is um, I could see an expansion of KL like they could definitely Have some cool room to expand. Yeah, I want I want my ko mechs I want them to have little You know little dreadknot suits Yeah Yep I agree combined Dourden's been this kind of thing has been flowing around and my honest answer is I put it in here Just to say I don't think it's gonna happen. I like I put this one at like 50 to 1 Okay, I put it lower. Yeah, I like this is Uh, I I just think like I think we'd see a fire slayer expansion Before we'd see this like they double down and and that's throwing good money after bad if you ask me Yeah, okay But I still think that would be more likely than this Um, which is a shame because I really want some sweet golems. How do we not have cool golems in this world? Really upsetting me Uh, like really like it's such a easy idea and concept to have cool mech suit golem Things you get people in them or not. I don't care. I don't care We have a whole realm of metal Yeah Right, right Exactly in the navy of the realm Yeah, like how do we not have this yet? It's mystifying truly So, yeah, I mean Odds for this one are very far out for me. I again I think realistically the the more likely thing here would be they keep on the train. We're on We see some kind of expansion for fire slayers whenever their book comes out Like they get the they get three new kits or whatever Right and and and that's that's their answer. Like do you like them now? Did that work? Right, you know, I don't know I don't know if they'll even get that Yeah, sure Okay All right next long shot goblin spy Goblin sky pirates as I say spy pirates, but no sky pirates. It's a fun. That's a fun tongue twister Okay, I use the very old art here, but obviously these guys have been mentioned The grot bag scuttlers and so on and so forth or whatever they're called. They've they've been talked about in the lore We know that there's goblins who you know who have flying ships and stuff like that The more things we give boats and the ability to fly around in some way The more my dream of battletoad gothic becomes an inevitability Uh So, you know, what do you think about these guys as a long shot? You know, I think It obviously gitz is a popular fact Um, they do have some older sculpts at the could jettison And really I think the whole like spider fang group like It doesn't get a lot of love as it currently is Personally, I don't like the sculpts. I'm sure some people do um I could see that easily The mortal realm is gonna come in here and just start throwing haymakers but continue Snash it out. It'll be fun I think it would be fine if they dropped that and they were like, okay We're gonna have a new sub faction of sky pirates that are gonna along with that instead um Which I think is way more in the aos narrative and aesthetic than guys that are all about spiders um you know, and We've had the gr um Gr season and before that we had the guy ran season and we didn't get new spider stuff Which those would be the two places that I would have put spider stuff So if we're not getting it there, where are we gonna get more spider stuff? I think it would just go away and you know guy pirates I You know goblin sky pirates sound like they could float along in the shadows they could be tackling sea shanties would be great You could see them in 4.0. They could do something. Sure. So let me ask you. I I I have questions here, okay? Because first of all, I think we can both agree that this idea is money And I tend to agree they I tend to agree with you that the spiders are sort of an appendix that could be excised I know there are lovers of the spider the spider stuff In gits, but it is the appendix portion of that book like it could be excised and the body would still function Like it's more allowed to be wrong. It's fine. Yeah, it's goblins trolls and squigs like we know that's the big three We all know it. Okay so but but Question the first let's put our money hats back on Okay How much of a failure is it? For age of sigmar in general That this doesn't exist What I mean by that is doesn't this just sell like gangbusters if you make something like this like isn't this just Doesn't this become like that with some of the biggest selling kits of the year if they sculpt this absolutely absolutely um, it's I know like The way I would just describe the setting of age of sigmar in general is like it's beyond high fantasy, right? It's somewhere it's like when high fantasy gets high. It's it's it's epic. It's epic mythic fantasy. Yes Whatever whatever fancy words you want to put on it. Sure Is is high fantasy enjoying some substances Is above and beyond um In what screams above and beyond high fantasy then A bunch of whacked out Goblins in flying ships. Yeah Like yeah, give me that. Yeah 100 percent. You know Look You you got and and so many other fantasy Games explore this kind of space like the thing that's ultimately the failure of warhammer to me what kills me is We're we're in this epic mythic ridiculous fantasy of age of sigmar, which I love the the base world Okay, like it's so great. It's so wonderful So varied and cool and different And then the occupants of that world are like the most rote basic fantasy tropes Yep, okay And I look at something like What dnd has done over the past 20 years or what magic the gathering has done over the past 20 years or Uh new manara from money cook or or or or or like we go down a ton of different titles, right? Where fantasy has been pushed into all these really exciting interesting different directions and Like how are we not Doing that How are like is it just a failure of imagination? What's what's the issue here? I would love to be Wherever the planning is wherever the thoughts on this are because I would be in there like What's the next insane crazy thing we're doing that's going to blow people away and really sell our world? Okay, as being something distinct that would be like differentiators and differentiating Concepts would be my complete focus And I just feel like we've left ideas like this completely on the shelf Like we mentioned in the lore because it's free and then we never bothered to put them out and Uh, it just feels like we're we're just we're not exploring We're not using the space Move spread out, you know really use the space Like you have all of this crazy stuff that could be there And we're not doing any of it and like this feels like and and uh sporadica said risk aversion Yeah, baby, but this is not risky Like gits are a hugely popular army. You sell a ton of them I I have to believe just like based on how much I see how many people I see own gits anytime I go anywhere Right I'd be very I would love for them to just release some sales numbers on like by faction or by not even by kit but just like What are the top selling armies like most popular? Yeah, sure.  Like I understand why people like it in there like for For gw lumen f is printing money because there's so many people that love high elves Unconditionally It was like, okay reimagined high elves. Here you go and just start the money machine. Sure I mean So many of us just love weird stuff and that's why we're here 100% like it just this kind of an idea and and maybe people have other versions of this thing But to me like that like a weird idea like this, but again To me this just feels like when I was googling around for the images for this And I I knew this piece of art was what I was looking for because I love this this old classic piece of art But like if you just put goblin sky pirate into google you get like a million images from different games uh, you know card games and board games and everything where it just like Everything you can imagine of goblin sky pirates and flying boats and and everything else you can picture, right? How is every other how is every other game beating gw to the punch here? Right So, you know this just feels to me like like such a slam dunk and let me tell you I don't think we'll see it Now if we did let me make an argument for you. You're ready. Here's where I'm gonna. Here's where I'm gonna diverge This should be its own army. This shouldn't be part of yes Okay I would love to see this actually stand alone Like develop this range I would love to see a group of goblins That's are off on their own. They've taken over a skyport or whatever And they've developed their own stuff and like give them a completely new story divorce them from the the ground gets completely okay And the reason I'm saying that is because I think there'd just be a lot more creative space To do really interesting things with the with the force if you did it as a complete standalone Right as opposed to try to shoving them into the the the previous book Make them their own separate destruction force and By the way, when could you do them? Do I think these will come in 4.0? No When could you do these? Here's my here's my uh, here's my argument. We're gonna get to shimon eventually, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, that's where all the ships sail in the sky So there Go go there like whenever we get to shimon this better be an army If that's 5.0 or or whatever So there you go Okay I wonder and now that i'm thinking about this a little bit I wonder if they're concerned about Bringing too much Like levy into the setting if they're trying to keep it having a certain level of seriousness It's hard to to go goblins without it getting silly sure sure. No, I I I don't disagree.  Okay. Yeah You know like this isn't game of thrones Let's not pretend and game of thrones is fantasy for babies anyways, and it's boring so like Let's actually capitalize on our strength here, which is the strength of warhammer As I said at the beginning of this or a while back is spike skulls and hats Spike skulls and funny hats, right? That's it It needs to be a new t-shirt from the store. Absolutely all like I'm gonna move the I'm moving my merch store over soon to a new producer. I'll see what I can do for a spike skulls and funny hats Uh shirt. Okay All right, uh, I'm just waiting on a new piece of art that I'm I'm getting commissioned before I move everything over So at any rate Uh Long odds, but man should this happen. I think we both agree on that, right? Absolutely. Okay. Like again, this feels like such a money machine to me. All right Here's one incarnates and elementals Okay Now let me let me see if I can back this up a little bit I feel like we've got more justification for this than we might have at some point in the past Simply because we printed this thing called the incarnate and everybody hated it but that was everybody hated it because it was a Overpowered piece that could be used by any army and was just ridiculous and basically exactly Basically exactly what I said was going to go wrong with it Forever ago did Okay Anytime you have anything that can be put in multiple armies it every army you add seems to just Exponentially increase your risk of bad interactions We know this kind of stuff exists in the lore obviously at duh. I mean they made an incarnate model, right? But these are representations not really like I have here a picture of pretty classic elementals like d&d elementals But that's not really appropriate to age of sigmar. This would be like representations of the the realm stone Elementals of the realm stone, right? Because that's the elements of the mortal realms In the same way that like the girl elemental was a dude. These do have A pedigree remember the old forge world incarnate of fire and incarnate of beasts or whatever, right? So like there is a a history here And I think that this is like an actual really interesting idea where they could take classic elemental concepts So manzac is in the in the chat and he's obviously working on his.  And I think there's sort of the same opportunity here to take the classic concept of Elementals and what they represent, right? Which is just condensed down sentient Beings made of like the core elements of the universe and imprint that idea onto the mortal realms where you have like death sand shai shen elementals and and these gel elementals and oxy and elementals and stuff like that, right? and You have I don't know like rogue wizards at the head of it Who have press ganged these things into service sort of like? Marshal bounty hunter You know wizards who are out and about like And focus on controlling the the essences of the of the realms These guys could fit into like a this guy's gonna be a completely new take on a destruction type army I think it'd be really different and interesting than than any of the previous destruction armies we had um, so, you know like I I feel like this is an idea that could they could take and make their own in a really unique way Right, like what does the shai shen grave elemental look like? I don't know, but I bet it's pretty cool right That kind of thing it feels like there's a lot of of potential to explore there and let the sculptors go nuts Uh, but I don't know. What do you think about this? This is sort of the most out there concept. This admittedly lives more or less in my head Yeah I don't know how you turn it into an army um, I think It's you know It could be another new round of a generic endless spells That could be a good place to go with it It could be like a regiment of a noun type of thing very easily, right? That could be a thing You got like the rogue wizard and his elemental boys and stuff like that. Sure. You could do that kind of a thing Yeah, I I I just am I'm having trouble seeing how you make it in army. I could see these things coming out and being um, you know, like we had the incarnate of ger we have the endless spells I could see various different things popping up in individual armies like um Character harnessed some essence of something and brought it in like You know, like that could easily be a thing like in One of the death armies that like negash just like harnessed like the the spirit of Jayesh and As it represented on the battlefield somehow um Yeah I get that I get that Yeah, the challenge I think is is make it an army and number two Like making it coherent because it's like inherently all over the place. Sure Yeah, I think those are both fair pushbacks I think the first one I could answer Because I do think you could like when you think about sort of all the different realms and the different types of You could sort of create out of those things and and press them into troops and stuff like that And by the way, we know that we do know these things can become sentient on their own like emma spells and these kind of Elementals, it's not like it's not like lack of intelligence is an issue. They could they could be operating completely on their own because uh back in You know, we we talked about uh What was it in in malign sorcery or whichever one it was the the sentient? Uh purple sun, right? So like we know these things can these types of things can gain intelligence So I like I think you could cut that that Line pretty easy like I could if you gave me a couple days I could probably sketch out like a concept of an army silhouette and what it looks like and what the troops would be and stuff like that I think your second point though is quite reasonable. That does land as the biggest challenge to me Which is this would feel pretty strange as an army like it's not Unlike basically every other army. It doesn't have a sort of coherent Silhouette right like it's it's shapes and species and forms are just kind of all over the shop right Yeah, and it'd be a mix of a lot of different things now I think if you had a great sculptor working with a great concept artist You could probably create like a unifying aesthetic Right like the armor that they're all pressed into or something like that You know like there's there's there's ways you could you could sort of split the diff to to get there But I agree that is the major challenge. I think you've properly identified that the big problem Yeah, and and there they are really a big fan and I don't think they're crazy for being so But they are really a big fan of like consistency in the aesthetic of the armies they put out which is Quite reasonable right a lot of other games aren't and their their armies end up looking like just a bunch of nonsense thrown together So I get that It's fair Okay, all right Okay, so What else What'd we miss? Uh, what was the Well, what what Paul any any other items longshot or otherwise? Or you in the chat We're gonna keep the show short by like exactly up incredibly early to get on the plane tomorrow morning, but I have to get up early for work tomorrow, too. So I don't mind that Uh, but what is the what didn't we cover here? So audience if you've got any final ideas you want us to pitch about Paul anything else on your list um you know, I think the big thing for me is Looking at kind of like the overall sort of balance of the game and factions that exist It's our largest grand alliances order and that's like nine factions, I think and Chaos is seven And then death and destruction are both four Um, so I think if we're gonna get new stuff It it's not in death and destruction It's gonna continue just kind of tilt the whole game in a in a way that it's like why do we have four grand alliances if Three quarters of the game is two of them, right? Um So You know, could we explore a death faction that is not Loyal to negash Yeah, I'd love to see that. There's a couple ways you could go with that. Uh, you know, like you could have a sort of um Uh, a monstros like a how do I want to say this like a frankincinian faction sort of what they did with the Underworld's warband, but like kind of blew that concept way out and make them not loyal to negash Like there's no souls there to be had it's just automated constructs hence negash has no no You know, it's just meat as it were. Um, I think that could be a way to go um You know, there's some people in the army who said there's people in the army people in the chat silent people I mean, they're supposed to be dead, but who knows lots of things are supposed to be dead So whatever, you know bug people are bug people. I could see a bug people faction destruction Sure, like it'd be fine I I really need to see like how good it looks because they I don't think they want to make something that in any way Could be confused with tier nids that would be the problem Um, and they I think they'd want to work hard to make it feel Completely its own thing um So, you know, uh I mean when it comes to Uh, when it comes to like people mentioned fan pirates. Look, I'd love to see it I'm all for it. I still think it should be an expansion to soul like grave lords like bring out vampire two cowards uh do it but you know I think those are kind of the other ideas. They're in the zeitgeist And I think those all make sense like any of those could be a thing if they wanted Bug people have done correctly and very differently Like maybe more thrive cream than tier nid if you know what a thrive cream looks like Basically a mantis type person Um, so like more humanoid more more more insectoid like that, you know, think clicky clacky Praying mantis type character right Um, I think that would be fine Uh, there's there's a lot of out real life um religion and um, all of those sorts of things myth at um That you can pull in as inspiration for things that are undead and you know for I guess like Western sort of audiences a lot of it would seem incredibly original because you've just never heard of it before It just comes out of a culture that you don't know much about um So that's certainly A good place that they could pull things from too. There's stuff All over the world. Yeah, I agree. Oh and you know People love tomb ganks This is this is a true statement and If I'm remembering my lore correctly Cetra just go into the realm of chaos and was like i'm gonna go take these guys on myself Yeah, correct. Isn't that how you went down? Yeah, it's the last we ever heard of him. Yes And go trek did that and he came back sure I mean, they're going to get their whole relaunch for old world. I I I think anything there they're touching in old world becomes pretty instantly Not going to happen in aos is my feeling That's my own if they They could do that it's like it it could work. I think it could work It could work, but I think they're competing studios Hmm Maybe no if it if it worked out It's just another game system to sell the same models to it's broadening the game audience for a product that already does it exists so Uh, I I agree a lot of it. Perfect sense. Sure Sure All right. Good stuff. Well, look we want to know what you think so put them down in the comments Drop them down there hit like hit subscribe do all that fun stuff pull Thank you so much buddy. This is a lot of fun as us as we sat here and and ruminated and hopefully We're catching them at the right time. They designed their armies like two three years out So we're we're hopefully getting them Maybe we'll either maybe we could get into the end of fourth edition or middle of fourth edition Or maybe we planted some ideas in their heads for the launch of fifth edition, you know like it's that's You got to live in the future. Okay So if we're coming through it can challenges the gash is thrown there. There you go. I'm all for it. I mean, I know who I'm back in in that fight Uh for sure Okay, very good No, no, no, it's the guy with much it's the much cooler dude. All right Hey, everyone hit like hit subscribe click all the buttons do all the fun things that make all the fun things We really appreciate it I'm sure tom or tyler or somebody will be back next week, but a special shout out to paul who jumped in like an absolute hero Thank you, buddy for co-hosting with me tonight Check out radio free hammer haul. That's paul's channel Uh, but oh you're out there What's ahead? I occasionally put out new videos occasionally put out. Hey, that's fine. I'm I'm subbed. I watch all your new videos It's always great when I see a full video pop up in my feed For all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it Uh, don't forget drop in the comments. What your army idea is what didn't we mention? What do you like? What do you hate? What do you see? What do you not want to see? Coming in 4.0 All right, thank you so much everybody. We really appreciate it as always We'll see you next wednesday