If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews In this exciting episode of Mind Pump, wow We talk about the book hip makers, this is in the intro by the way, we talk about challenging Fitness dogmas kind of what we do all the time and then I get into a debate with Adam Over water intake. Should you or should you not be drinking a ton of water? Do I win this debate again, or is this the one-time Adam actually wins? Probably not. You'll find out When you listen to this episode and then we talk about my asymmetrical tonsil and how I found out that I had one. Find out how Sal found out Then we get into the questions. The first question that we answer is Should you not deadlift and squat because it will thicken your waist? The next question is what are you most afraid of for your kids with advertising in the fitness industry? Me and Justin have a lot to say about that probably a good idea not to have any and that's Adam's opinion Then we get into the old controversy High-intensity interval training cardio versus low-intensity steady-state cardio Or not at all the acronyms are hit endless Which one's the most effective one for burning body fat and getting on stage? And finally someone asked us how do we reconcile the fact-based information that we share on the show with someone like Paul Chek Who actively rebukes all scientific understanding? Yes, I know the question was asked crazy Yes, I don't I disagree with it But we answer it anyway in this episode of mind pump and then Huge announcement. Oh, I'm so pumped for this right here so I've got a ton of people that have been in boxing about I Have a friend who I've been trying to get to listen to mind pump And they haven't listened to mine pump yet and the program's been amazing yada yada And so I think and Sal actually came up with this and I think it's a brilliant idea Which is giving away a super bundle if we if you purchase a super bundle You will be able to gift a full bundle to a friend so it's like a two-for-one or buy one get one type of deal and This is actually a legit concern. I've had husbands and wives Message us we've had friends message us and say hey, we both want to follow the program You know, can I just you know, how can we work this out or whatever and I think this is great People like to work out together the super bundle includes all of our programs. So it's it's got everything it has maps and a balik Our foundational program maps performance, which is our performance based mobility based program It's got maps aesthetic, which is our competition Based program and then maps prime which teaches you how to self-assess What else does it include? Are we gonna are we gonna do either or bundle or is this only for the super bundle? Are we gonna do the RGB bundle also? Are we only doing the super bundle that will give you you know I think the super bundle because it has everything. Yeah, it's got everything in it, right? What else does a super bundle have Doug doesn't have some more some more stuff. It's got maps anywhere. That's right the equipment free maps program So when you basically you enroll in the super bundle and then you get to give a free super bundle to whoever you want Which literally is setting you and your friend or spouse or whoever you're giving the free one to setting you guys up for the next Years worth of training. It's basically a year's worth of exercise programming. You can find this Oh, and by the way, this promotion is not gonna be going on all month long. No, this is one of the few promotions We're gonna actually end even before the halfway point of the month I believe all days is what Doug said 12 days, right? So the 12th this promotion will end. It's a very short one So tell your friend get them on board You can find out about this promotion or enroll in this promotion At mind pump media calm. Don't wait spread the maps love everybody The book hit makers talks about like almost every movie that we watch is the same thing Just delivered differently. You mean the Warriors journey. Yeah, well, no I mean that one's an example of the Warriors journey, but sometimes it's not so Campbell man almost every movie we watch is it had there was another Familiar story just told differently. How funny is that like there's certain patterns that we just love like like you ever listened to Like music for example EDM is great for this.  Well, that's our hit makers. I can't wait till computers It makers is the science of popularity. So that's that's the message of the book is the science behind popularity and it actually opens up and starts with Music is what it gets into and it taught and they've been doing that since the 20s and Maybe we didn't understand the science of it in the 20s, but we have definitely Mastered it now today like as far as how we make people feel Through through music through sound through video through movies. It's was a great book. I tell you what that's a Haven't posted about it yet, but I will post on IG real soon here as my as far as my review But those that listen to this first Definitely one of the better books I read this year slow start to it It almost lost me at the beginning because it does get into the history in the 20s And I really wasn't interested in like music in the 20s So yeah, it was It was important to the entire story of the and the book So once you get past the beginning it really picks up and then literally the whole book is worth the final chapter in my opinion I mean the last chapter really yeah, cuz it gets into Disney and stuff like that and just Understanding the science behind how they've done everything. It's pretty fast. I'll check it out. Yeah, you guys well I'll check it out man. I make magic. I've been I've been doing a little reading and postulating on You know, one of my favorite things to do It's to take things that we Consider dogma or like, you know, like what's the word gospel in fitness and challenging it just for the sake of it Yeah, and you know, it's funny.    Yeah, like you're talking about water water intake is one that we don't everybody's just it's like You have to go you're gonna go here, huh?  Oh wow. Hey, man. Okay. No No, I'll tell you bring it on Sally. I actually live. This is a good topic and I and I'm passionate. Oh, I don't know I was gonna debate you over. Yeah. Are you sure you want to do that? Well? I know where you're going with this is getting recorded. Yeah, go for it.  So no when it comes to when it when it comes to water I use a Brita filter.  No, no, no So when it comes to that type of filtered water versus unfiltered water, whatever when it comes to water intake positively charge What do we hear? What do we hear in as long as there's electrolytes in in fitness? Like what do like Adam? You're in the drink tons of water, right? Drink tons of water like what's the common things that you hear in the especially the muscle-building world with water? At least a gallon plus a day a gallon plus a day like it's just it's just like black and white jug Yeah, and then why do they say you need to drink tons of water? What's the benefit to stay hydrated? Metabolism there you go. Metabolism. What else flushes out? Yeah flushes out. Yeah. Yeah, of course that now That's worth it. Okay. The one definitely going to pitch you in that helps you build muscle burn body fat here So here's what's interesting about water intake is num first off It's one of the most individualized things you could possibly when it comes to it's like it's as if not more individualized than food intake Because your level of hydration or required the amount of water that you need changes not just weekly But daily and also within the day it changes. So where's your barometer? Is it how bad your piece thinks or what? It's how salty it tastes. No, I'm just kidding It's more about Really just our body has the signals that tells us When we should have water And those signals we've evolved with and they're pretty they're more accurate than any estimation that we can come up with So I did some research. Well, they say that the the feeling of thirst is actually signs of already dehydration starting right? That's yeah, that's that's false. That's actually not true. A sign of thirst is to prevent Uh dehydration. It's actually a pretty good Uh measure now if you're not in tune with your body if you tend, you know You're super busy and you're not paying attention Or if you're unhealthy that may be off just like any other signal may be off But in reality being thirsty is kind of a good signal But here's what's interesting. I did some research and I found that Did you guys know that there are as many if not more hospital hospitalizations for What's called hyper hypo? Nutrimia, which is uh excess water than dehydration. Do you guys know that more? Yeah, people actually get uh, especially as people age And especially with thing when people have health issues like kidney issues and heart issues And when it comes to athletes, um, it's estimated that uh as much or About an equal percentage of athletes drink too much water As those that drink too little water and the side effects of drinking too much water Are like reduced performance brain fog Heart irregular heartbeats You can actually damage your liver from too much water and I was as I'm reading this I'm thinking like You know, I I know why we tell people to drink more water and it's it's typically because In certain cases people maybe not drink too much or drink too much soda And other types of beverages well about when you're super depleted or like Let's say because they they used to profess this quite a bit when there was like high humidity and heat and you know Like you it was apparent you'd lose like five ten pounds of water weight, you know throughout the day And so it was like this preventative measure that you had to over hydrate Because you know the the sweat factor and like how much like actual weight you were going to lose Being uh, you know detrimental. Well, there's a lot of uh women in particular Actually are or have a higher likelihood of suffering from the effects of too much too much water They don't require as much as men do their body actually holds on to water much better than ours do And of course they're smaller typically, right? But think about all the things that affect How much water your body may need for optimal health, right? I mean everything from your body's chemistry to your nutrition To your sleep to your activity levels. Are you in a hot climate? How much sodium you've consumed or other? Electrite levels in your body. It's so different from person to person and from day to day That the advice that we give people In the fitness industry like drink a gallon of water a day at least is so ridiculously Simplified and potentially Could have bad effects on people. I have a theory on that. What's your theory? It's it's the same theory that I have with the protein kind of debate that we have And that's why I was really interested in what direction you were going to go with this because I know that You're not somebody who's like pushes the water intake on people And I know that I am And the reason why I am is the same reason why I used to push protein, especially on a lot of my female clients is because In my 15 years of coaching clients and tracking food and and paying attention to their intake Most people grossly under a protein That's a fact as it's now you say grossly grossly under most people eat essential amounts of protein You're talking about optimal levels of protein for optimal muscle building for building muscle Yeah, because most people that hire you are looking to build muscle and burn fat, right? Okay, so Yeah, we're not talking about to survive and live. We're not talking about that same thing goes for the water thing Okay The and I think what went wrong in in fitness and what tends to go wrong in fitness a lot is They take something that's pretty general Which I think if I were to look at a if we were to screenshot all the people I ever trained and go look at How many 80 percent? Let's just say and that's a totally arbitrary number. I'm throwing out there Let's say 80 of these people Did not get enough protein for optimal muscle building So if I can say a majority of my people aren't eating enough I'm going to come out with this message that says more protein You guys need more protein and I know that if I come out with a message like that That I'm going to positively affect a majority of the people out there that are trying to build muscle because they were probably Under-eating and so there is some good that comes from that message And then we have what happens always in fitness is the pendulum swings from one side to the other side so extreme Then you got the bodybuilder demographic that is like More more is better. So these guys are eating 1.5 to 3 grams of of protein per pound of body weight And the same thing I believe has happened with water If I were to look at my clients again and took a screenshot of all the clients that I've trained in my career And I asked them how much water I want you to start tracking and tell me how much water you drink in a day People grossly Under drink water because they're drinking sodas. They're drinking juices.   Or is it that they're drinking too much of other fluids that are not just water? Yeah, in other words, it's not we didn't say fluid about water Okay, they're drinking they're drinking plenty of fluids But when we when you drink when you drink sugar and when you drink coffee, okay caffeine dehydrates you So it's like that's a zero zero. So you know it's in water. It's I want to be I want to I need to correct that It's a myth that drinking coffee dehydrates you you still hydrate. Yeah, it's it's a it's a zero zero. No, no You still you still uh, you utilize you get way more water than you lose from the dehydration effects of caffeine That's a that's a huge myth and I want to say that I wouldn't say way more It is and you hear what are you talking about somebody that's drinking a A basic coffee drink you're talking about what most people do It's an extra shot of espresso inside there or taking way more caffeine It's still a lot more water. It's actually fine. I remember that same argument for beer Yeah, it's fine. You're you're you're fine drinking now. Does caffeine cause a water loss? It does but It's not like drinking coffee a cup of coffee is not it means you're not drinking water But the reason the question I have with with what you're saying is is are they Do they let's say somebody drinks lots of juice and soda and then they drink a little bit of water Should they add water to that will that benefit them or is a lot of the benefit coming from reducing or eliminating All that other shit and replacing it with calorie free water That's that's the big question and how do we know when people or no or you're someone like me Okay, which I'm a good example of this I can I will go on these kicks where I'll have two diet sodas and a coffee in my that's a day of drinking Could end up being a one glass or two glasses of water Two diet sodas and a cup of coffee. Yeah, and that could easily be one of my days And here and here's the thing like so you're in the category of people That likely require more water consumption for two different reasons. Number one, you have a lot of muscle You sweat daily you exercise at least an hour a day and you consume high levels of protein And so those things can definitely Definitely require more water intake. It's so individual. That's a thing. It's Yeah, we have to create these standards Exactly again again this this started because people I'm I'm not uh that abnormal Yeah, I guarantee of most people that are listening right now Truly assessed unless they are at making attempt to drink more water The average person coming into the fitness realm saying I'm gonna get in shape I want to build muscle. I want to burn fat. I'm going to start paying attention to these things If they truly assess themselves a majority of people Are under drinking water and over drinking stuff that is not ideal for you Yeah, and I would so so here's where this comes from and this is what I want to see Because here's what I'm speculating. This is what I want to see. I want to see Are the benefits when you tell someone a random client and you say, hey I want you to drink a gallon of water a day Does that mean does that equate to less is that really benefiting them?  Absolutely. That's and that's really is that the benefit or is the benefit because you're having tons of water And so that's what and I that's how I teach it. So if I told someone drink a gallon of water I know That it's going to help curb appetite.  So they're real benefits Probably the bulk of the benefits isn't from this great hydration speeding up your metabolism Or doing something to the body that's like amazing because they're having to get on water It's doing a lot of other things.   No, no, I don't want that message He's just challenging common thought. So like that's a common thought process is to just keep drinking more water In my opinion, it's a good one. Yeah, I want to know a little bit more than okay So if you're saying that there's people in the hospital That have been over, you know, over consuming water, like what does that look like? What's the amount and like, you know, what are the detriments? Again irregular heartbeat You know brain fog fatigue it can affect mood like it can cause depression it can cause faint feeling faint These are all symptoms of having too much water and here's the other thing.  I may have a problem I may actually And this is actually what's happened. This is what so endurance athletes, uh, for example Are hammered more than anybody else for, uh, avoiding dehydration This is like a big thing with endurance athletes like don't be dehydrated Don't be especially 10 20 years ago now They've learned that there's a that they need to consume sodium with their water And they need to be careful with their electrolyte amounts But before it was like hammer hammer water hammer water and more endurance athletes were having issues with too much water because Of that message because they were so worried about it, especially women And especially long endurance events that they were just pounding the water And they were making themselves sick and people are under the impression that there's no detriment And here's the thing as with anything There is an optimal dose and that means that less than that is suboptimal and more than that is suboptimal But take it another level Push that in either direction and it becomes dangerous And that's what happens with water and I've I read cases where people Would do these water challenges and died.  Yeah, but you gotta understand something man.  Yeah, you know, you're you can't you can't tell somebody That's why we have generic advice like that that and there there is generic advice out there that I think Uh, and I and I think there's you make up good you make good points I'm so I'm not completely debating what you're saying and are you I'm just saying that I also want to caution that when we say things like that That I think uh, the recommendation of drinking more water is done more good than it's done harm I would say definitely replacing it.  Like you're saying, uh, Like the thought process to have like a soda or a juice or a coffee or you know, let's stick with You know water as being the beverage of choice. Here's your here's the best advice It's I think it's shit advice to tell people drink a gallon of water a day and drink eight out or Eight ounces, you know eight glasses of water and honestly, I think it's so general.  I also think Uh, here's the advice that I'll give people don't drink anything but water. How about that? Listen to your body Don't drink anything but water. Don't drink sodas. Don't drink teas Don't drink whatever if you want to have a little bit of coffee or a little bit fine But the vast majority of the fluid that you consume Should be water and I think you'll have pretty much no problems. I mean You know, what part of alcohol plays a role in that? Alcohol, you know provides fluids also, believe it or not. Actually, they have some studies that show that beer Replaced electrolytes pretty well But again, it's about what's happening to the liver and kidneys when you're taking in alcohol And if you're over hydrating what the stress that it puts on there and then if you're also having alcohol That's where that's where I'm going. So I too much water with alcohol. Yeah Uh, it's negative effects just like having too little water With alcohol like again, both Are bad for you.  I mean you can get actually liver cirrhosis Uh from consuming too many from having the electrolyte imbalance from having too many fluids So, uh, and the reason why I brought it up and I wanted to talk about it Is because I know a lot of people are going to freak out Because sal says, you know, the advice to drink tons of here's another piece of the advice that I think is hilarious Is the drink water throughout the entire day all day long And the reason why I think that's ridiculous is it completely doesn't match Uh, the how the likelihood of how we evolved. I mean humans definitely lived around well Not just how we evolved but also How we how our body works throughout the day. I mean What what we're doing right now doesn't require a ton of water Right, I'm sitting on here talking about my but you better believe in about four hours when I start throwing some weights around Exactly and think about around your high activity I literally drink three quarters of a gallon of water Around my workout, right? So the rest of the the other quarter or so gallon is spread out throughout, right? So think about it this way if I'm told if I'm a A competitor and someone's in my coach is saying drink one to two gallons of water every day Make sure you drink it throughout the day Well, when I'm not working out and I'm drinking, you know, 16 ounces of water The likelihood that I'm drinking too much water and getting negatives is high The likelihood that I may be drinking enough while I'm working out is is also is good. It's high, right? So It's so it's so dependent on what you're doing at the time You're what you're eating all these different things that to give these general guidelines Well, I have to I have to defend the the coaches and the competitors out there because There there is some sort of and I'm not there. I'm like I'm helping somebody right now, right? So we're we're helping Melissa right now get ready for a show. It's her first show And I don't have her tracking water yet, but I will soon And I will give her a generic number to follow, but there's a different reason why I have her because I I'm wanting to see I'm tracking to see how much water her body loses And if I don't know like a suffite list for example, let's say I give her the generic advice Melissa, I want you to drink one gallon of water every single day What I'm looking at is I'm looking at fluctuations the fluctuation And then what her body looks like on a half a gallon of water a quarter gallon of water and a full gallon of water You're trying to see measurable like data to work with. Yeah, and I mean we consistent We know that what 60% of our muscles are made up of water, right? So Filling up the muscle bellies with water makes an aesthetic change and look right? Especially when you're lean, right exactly So for me and and coaches so and I don't know what I can't speak for all of them Because we know that there's a ton of them that are idiots But there there there might be some that are giving that hey drink a gallon of water And they have the same theory or the thought process behind why they're doing that like I do which is Listen, I need you to drink a gallon and I want you to be consistent with that because I need to be consistent with Your water loss seeing what your body looks like and then from there is how I'm going to have you adjust that So they're you know, when you talk about the competitive level, there is a different You got to separate those because here's the other thing to consider too, which was kind of cool I was thinking about this also and I started doing some reading on it And we always tend to have water or fluids with us while we're eating And that may actually be a detriment to a lot of us. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, because yeah because It doesn't help the digestive. No, actually if anything it dilutes It dilutes the digestive process it could does it dampen like your saliva and Because I feel like cotton mouth. I don't have like a beverage with me. So that may actually be More of a medical issue. You may have an issue with producing enough saliva But it dilutes stomach acid. I got a medical issue now. It could be.  So you could you could be producing, excuse me, you dilute stomach acid which changes How how you digest food it could cause your stomach to try and produce more acid as a result Which can be a problem. Oh, you could also here's the other thing too. We tend to chew Way too little. I was just gonna say this for sure I could you're in your defense of that argument I could definitely see if I didn't have water It would force me to chew my food probably 30 to 50 times Which is the recommended amount of chewing your food before you swallow it Which if you ever and people this is a cool thing I tell people to actually pay attention to It's actually No one does pain. Yes. Nobody does that It's pay attention the next time you were shoveling food in your face On how little you chew and then swallow it down Like and take a cup of water with it. Chewing is part of the Chewing is part of the digestive process and you would be blown away by how many people would eat less calories Be more satiated and and actually help be like mindful about it If they were mindful and actually chewed their food Completely before they swallow it down and you got to believe that drinking fluid It actually counters that right because you I could take a bite of something like lily bite of myself It makes room wash it down with soda and then you just swallow it down. That's a hundred percent. What's happening? I do that. I do that all the time.   Yeah, it is it's something like that and you would be surprised how many people's digestive issues become Solved with just chewing. I mean no joke. I'm not exaggerating. Oh, I believe that I have we've all done that where you bit something and like and you feel like I should shoot that up more You're just talking to a toddler all the time.   Yeah, I got a story behind that too if you I can't wait to Chew your food. Well, um, you should be able to swallow it without any fluids Who's the guy that told you what that I had a big I've had it since I was a kid. That's funny It won't go all the way in Something's blocking it on the left side.  Isn't this why like wine and beer it was like safer, right the drink versus like sometimes the water Wow, that's cool. Yeah, I know that's true. Yeah, right because it's not like a myth Does the alcohol killed the bacteria? It was less likely to have microbes in it and shit Yeah, that makes I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that's back in the day. Yes. Let's get on the beer diet Yeah, that was with me. Yeah, so with my tonsil. I've had it since I was a kid and it's just one side So it's asymmetrical Now if you if I didn't have that since I was a kid And I went to the doctor and it just happened that means you have you might have like cancer Right in your throat because it usually it's pretty rare to have one side, right this started your whole Paranoia This was also the birth of kermit. Yeah Oh my god, I know I think about that. I'm changing if I if I removed it. I wouldn't sound the same, right? Yeah, so it can't do it anymore. So anyway, I was I was uniquely you so I was training my client who was a This was years ago.  I'm like, what do you know because you guys know me? I'll get a pair. I'm like, what what's going on?   He goes nothing.  He goes, well, if I see that normally I assume that it's uh, you know, malignant and we got to do a biopsy and this and that But no big deal freak me out, dude Freak me out though. I had to have a conversation for like an hour with him to for him to call me down Bring on the bird Today's quads being brought to you by chimera coffee It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural Neutropics for a cleaner calmer and more focused buzz without the crash Put the chimera link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code Mind pump a check out for 10% off. It's the motherfucking squaw The eagle has landed Our first question is from austin knot east his prep coach says not to deadlift or squat because it will thicken his waste You know, are not true Forbid the funniest part about this is that you were just picking a fight this morning. I saw that. Yeah, I did. Were you in a mood? Uh, what were you in a mood?  I'm like, what are you doing, dude? No, so I don't know if someone tagged me if it wasn't. Oh, did you get tagged on it?     I might have been in a mood, but the the truth is Forget the mood part They give advice that's bad all time, but rarely do they give dangerous advice. That's dangerous advice So I have to say something because I'm looking at it and there's all these comments of people Who are like, where do I buy this? Oh, this is great.   Uh, sorry, bro. You're not going to sell as many of your shitty waste trainers But that's a good thing Uh, you already deleted your comment do deadlifts and squats thicken your waist Um, well, first of all the the waist isn't a muscle Okay, so the waist isn't a muscle. It's a general area. Yeah. So what are you working today? Waste? Wasting It's called a waist trainer. You should get punched in the face or wearing one of those Yeah, no, this is something that uh, of course I saw a ton of this In, uh, which I like to say I've seen a major shift lately Uh, but the when I started getting into competing and I saw the exercises these guys were doing And I started talking to a lot of the competitors like, oh, yeah, no Definitely, I don't I don't deadlift uh or squat at all or barbell squat And I'm like, huh, you don't do the two most important lifts you could possibly do to build muscle on your body And we're in the business of building muscle like that didn't make sense to me too hard, bro Yeah, and then when they started explaining like, oh, it makes my my waist bigger and I'm like Explain that to me like I'm totally confused right now on why we would do that And then this was like the first time I'd ever seen this I didn't even know it existed And I started seeing and I started thinking like what the fuck But then I had these people that like swear by it like no, bro Look, I'll show you pictures before after and then I was like, okay My coach told me obliques are the devil and then I realized like what they were doing and I'm like Oh, you're literally like wearing that thing that tight and you sleep with it. You train with it You never tell me about the waist trainer now. Yes, isn't that what we were looking for? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah Well, yeah, that's what you were the guy you commented on was a waist trainer, you know, and I'm like That's so crazy to me that you would wear this thing all day like a cast and intentionally atrophy Those muscles and then you would eliminate Exercises like the deadlift and the squat like it's crazy. No deadlifting deadlifting and squatting does activate the muscles of the core The muscles of the core what you need to stand they can definitely build But the the ability of you to really build those muscles out and get massive core muscles Is pretty small. It's not really muscles that hypertrophy the same way like quads do But not only that but if you deadlift for example Your back's gonna get bigger too and a small waist is only small Because of the contrast between your waist and your shoulders And that's what these judges see right and I'll give you an example like me and adam if we if we measured our waist Probably about the same size if you see a standing in a picture next to each other adam's waist appears smaller than mine It's not because he has a small waist because he's got wider shoulders And this is what you do on stage.  Oh, I'm trying to get leaner and I don't want a bigger waist their form Not going to squat well not only that I wouldn't have as much of a problem If they just stayed specifically in the performance realm of it, right? Like so I'm doing this specifically to be judged on stage and like this is what I'm doing Just to kind of cheat my way through the system a little bit to get a smaller waist versus You know, I'm selling these things to the general public saying this is a good idea Yeah, no, stupid the most effective thing you could do to shrink your waist by far. Is it me back?  Yeah, that's it. So you did you guys see the Insta story I did just a few days ago where I drew an arrow To my my waist. Did you see that I drew an arrow to my waist and I said this is uh The the only spot that matters or this is all I need to know and I pointed right to that So I think why I did one on my crotch Why this has come really popular especially with like men's physique competitors being Pikini competitors is that that waist that low back area Is a very very common area for people to store body fat And it happens to be one of the most stubborn areas for your body to be in general There's a total over generalization. Everybody's uniquely different But especially men we carry the tire, right? It's it's very common that we carry that low back and belly fat And the low back fat is the last place to go So if you've been watching my journey As I'm leaning out right now and getting in competitive type shape I'm showing you that like even right now you can see like the definition in my back But then my waist is kind of boxy right now But it it's not going to be a waist trainer or the lack of deadlifts That's going to get rid of that last bit I will literally you're going to see my waist come way in And it will be because I get leaner and it will take me until I push my body beyond This five percent before you really see go there. I just had this conversation with Katrina And she's kind of following the same journey And I get this a lot. So I think this is a great topic aside from the we already covered deadlifting and squatting It's you're silly to get rid of those out of your out of your training and just in my opinion But as far as the waist thing goes Everybody is going to have these areas on their body Where if you get down to seven percent body fat, let's say, you know, which is pretty low It's going to hold on for dear life. Well, it's still going to be there. Yeah, it'll be there Even like so Justin did his like transformation journey when we first started and he got all ripped and lean But I guarantee if you asked him like did you have areas still where you felt kind of fat or you felt like you were holding fat?  You would know right where it's at, right? Inner thighs, right?  You've got to put yourself Because you can get and I don't recommend that people get to one percent or two percent body fat But I guarantee you if you did push to one percent or two percent body fat that fat would go It would eventually go it would definitely end up going at one point And most people have just never pushed their body To that point to see that that that last bit of their waist because your waist When I get all the way down for stage, I mean you can like see my hip bone I mean you could see my you can literally see all of that when I'm all the way down But I have to get down to that and you won't see it until and here's the other thing to consider Like when you look at somebody in in real life that looks Truly impressive who's lean Muscular and looks like they can move and function. They have a built core.  That's what I want to look like And by the way, I don't necessarily hear a lot of women say they want to look like Uh, it's there are some but a figure or a fitness competitor How they want to look every day most women are like no, no, no, that's too too much I don't want to look like that every single day. It looks cool But but when they look at these crossfit girls who look like who are performing and doing these workouts and stuff A lot of women will be like, oh my god, that looks awesome Looks strong Let's want to look at look like and you look at these women and they have very well developed core and obliques It's not going to make you look bad to have Well-developed obliques obliques in sports. They serve a function. Are you kidding me? Come on your obliques are As important if not more Stabilizing all lateral forces I mean like you're putting your spine out there on blast if you don't have that support Look at look at athletes that have to actually perform. Look at grapplers. Look at boxers. Look at football players when they're lean Look at all these different athletes and look at their obliques. They're well developed They're strong Because you need that to perform and the ancient greeks even knew and even knew this when you look at the statues Of what the ancient greeks carved of like hercules for example or david for example who and they Kind of you know, they they sculpted these sculptures gave them a more impressive piece That's true. What's that? That's a different story. I think they considered small small penises. It was aesthetic They said they thought it was aesthetic. Okay, but They built uh, they put big obliques on them the sculpture of hercules. He's got these this thick Strong lean core with these strong obliques and when you see that in real life, uh, you know that person's Pretty strong. So this fear of developing the midsection I have yet to meet anybody ever where I looked at them and I'm like, oh wait, you know You probably should stop working out your midsection because it's crazy. Look. It's too I've never seen that before. Yeah.   We keep getting asked all the time. How can I support the mind pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can you guys love that chimera coffee that we have Chimera coffee with a k you go to chimera coffee.com put in the discount code mind pump for 10 at the checkout Also, if you guys want to know how I have this luxurious beard and you want one too Go to big top beard company.com put in the discount mind pump again, but this time for 33 off Also, you guys if you guys have not tried ben greefields new bars out there fantastic If you want some go to ben greefield fitness.com forward slash nature bite Put in the code mind pump and get 10% off go check it out All right next up is from sara gets fit recovered What are you most afraid for your kids with advertising in the fitness world today? Oh jeez um for for me, uh, especially for my my daughter, although this is more and more true for boys Um as well nowadays. I'm really afraid That my kids will compare themselves to the Insta stars Yeah to the unattainable standards that we that are that are projected Through media and i'm not even as afraid of advertising as i am Of social media social media is much more powerful than a commercial You know nowadays it just used to be commercials and stuff like that now it's all social media stuff And um, you know, they've done lots of they've already done studies on this where they find like girls the longer the more time they spend on instagram The more depressed they become the more their self-esteem drops They you know, their body image goes down Boys are starting you're starting to see this with with with men and boys, uh as well And it's just this false, um perception that that is your value And when you're in fitness or you you want to look fit or you want to be fit and you're looking at all these pictures So much of the value is placed on appearance and so little of the value is placed on Knowledge or wellness or how you feel or even performance, uh for that matter It's all about appearance And when you compare yourself to these pictures the funny thing is when you meet a lot of these people in person And this is just 100 percent like we're we you know, we host a podcast. It's a fitness podcast We have the Just the blessing of being able to meet all these influential fitness stars, but i'm going to tell you something right now They're way less impressive in person Than they are in pictures and that's by design.  You're like, well, I don't they don't look a lot like you know What I what I pictured them to look like So it that's really what what worries me is that my kids may You know think that these are the ideals that they need to attain And if they don't have these Crazy genetics and if they're not in this, you know always in these extreme dieted states and you know I don't want it to motivate them to take, you know diet pills or Anabolic or anything like that to try and look like You know what they think they need to look like in order to be you know attractive. So that's that's my my biggest sure Yeah, I mean for sure like the whole vanity side And the aesthetic world like I mean it's great to look good, but at the same time. Yeah, I can get I mean honestly, there's just so much misinformation Out there that I feel like we're just always gonna have to be in their ear You know, it's it's just like what we do right now Like I'm afraid of all of it because I just don't see like many people Um spouting off really good information that's popular, you know, like it's We're finding all these people on our own and we're putting them on our show and we're like, yeah Somebody that gets it and and it's telling things that are like, you know, it's solid information. Um, I just I hope that they I guess I hope that I don't detour them away, you know from being uh over overbearing with, you know, um My philosophy and just my experience and all that I want to be more Let them sort of be inquisitive towards me and and really want to learn You know, if it's not for me, it's from somebody that like I I trust and like I find them You know, somebody to sort of model after Whether it's a sports pursuit or whether it's just lifestyle pursuit or you know, just just healthy living and eating and You know, like just better practices, but yeah, dude. I honestly I'm afraid of it all that I just I haven't seen anything good You know, it's very small. It is. Do you guys think that we are kids? Um, and Adam you too I don't even have kids, but I would like to your opinion. Well, I'll tell you what I'm I'm so scared of this. It makes me not want to have kids, dude I'm not kidding like this is you talk about some of the reasons Why I'm not I'm not like, uh interested in having children. This is one of them I think and I don't want to be like all Um, you know doom and gloom. Yeah, right like everyone has got kids and wants kids so bad But we to piggyback off of what Sal was saying Man, we're in and I'm I just happened to be in the middle of reading a book called irresistible right now fantastic book And it talks about tech and the addiction and the way and the how we've created it to be addictive And man, it's it's scary to think that we're not we're only what nine or 10 years into the facebook generation We have no fucking clue what the long-term effects are going to be like we know Uh, what magazines did and advertising and marketing did in the 50s 60s and 70s And we know what it what kind of issues it's caused with people, uh, as far as image issues and bulimia and anorexia and stuff like that I'm scared to death On the generation that does not doesn't know anything else but social media that was born With a phone that was born with snapchat instagram facebook And is doesn't doesn't go through a day without picking the phone up on average Which people the average is like 50 something times a day and over two hours a day Of time that is being and that's the average right now and that's by the way on a crazy increase right now So I mean you're talking about these kids come high school time, you know, your guys is when they high school This is something that Do you police it? Do you how do you how do you manage that? I I would be scared. It's new territory It is it's it's such new territory And I think it's it's it's a lot scarier than I think anyone talks about and I I feel even more Passion about it going through this book and going like whoa, I never thought of it like that Well trip off trip trip off this right you have kids growing up now posting selfies lots of selfies um and and you know guys if they're working out they're posting with their shirt off and then girls especially Because it's reinforced through attention are posing You know provocatively or trying to look cute or sexy or whatever When we were kids because this isn't it didn't exist. It wasn't that long ago, you know It's one generation ago If you were a kid that took lots of selfies And photos like that like that was that was very strange. It would be very very strange for a girl Could you your ass could you imagine 15 years ago in in high school or whatever?  Hey bro. Can you take a shot of me real quick? Can you take a video of me doing the Smith machine press? It's like whoa, it's become so normal that it's not weird to see at least Three I've actually gone into the golds Goldsman's bathroom and actually seen people lining up and waiting for the mirror for the mirror. No, you didn't Yes, oh, yes The mirror's a good lighting two three dudes shirts off Waiting for this guy to get his selfie so I can now come in and get myself Hurry up, bro. I'm losing my pump because we know that this is the best mirror with the best lighting in the entire gym And anybody who's taking one or two selfies in that gym knows that and so Literally people during a crazy time.  No, it's not normal Think about this like imagine when we were kids you're 18 years old or whatever, you know your teenager And there's a girl that's taking pictures of herself like In her bikini and looking hot and smiling and she's like sending it out to people.  It's like the equivalent. Yeah, you do now.   Her value is her appearance It's reinforcing and this is a this is already a problem that we've identified For generations now before social media. We've identified that especially with with young girls That and women that their value is their appearance and this is a shitty thing is a shitty side effect of the You know the the advertising that happens in a free market system for for example It's a side effect of it and it's a nor it's a horrible one Where you believe that so much of your value Is on your appearance and it's it's always been like this I mean, let's be honest for all the human history, of course appearance makes a big difference But never have we had this immediate feedback system this reinforcement system And never has it been like this for children at such a high level to where You know This i'm going to check my phone or i'm going to check my my social media Oh, I got a hundred likes. I got 200 likes and then tomorrow I have no likes and I need to put something up to get more of it Do you know there's so you know how many pages there are? on instagram With 10,015 20,000 followers that don't monetize have nothing to do with business whatsoever I have friends who are i have friends who have Daughters right who are now in their you know teens and 20s even who have 15,000 followers why they're not selling anything. They don't know any of these people Why do you have 15,000 followers on social media because it's it's it feels good It's it reinforces these types of things and now imagine a child or a kid or a teenager growing up Getting reinforced that they're in that how they look is all important It's super valuable and at some point you know what happens to you you get old Everybody gets old and you know what you're gonna end up seeing what you see with people Let's take it. Let's take a section of society Where this is uh extreme. Let's take a section of the populace where their image how they look Is constantly reinforced uh how important they are and it really impacts how much money they make Let's look at actors actresses and models Do models actors and actresses do they age well? Do any of them have an easy time aging? They have a terrible time. No, it is a horrible experience So they always get hooked on drugs hooked on drugs hooked on plastic surgeries. I mean, have you ever met a 40-something-year-old famous actress or actor? I have I've seen them in person.   So here's you have to fucking police it Well chew on this you have to so and this is happening already now And so you better believe the next 10 years is going to be even crazier That uh and we just had a great post on the forum just recently someone shared like it was an educational video about the future of education And how you can build your own portfolio So You do have some I know some guys that are our age and buddies of ours that have kids and they actually Have started their kids instagrams and their pages Even now and helps so they can gain so they can build it because in the future That will be part of how you get hired. So if I have so in 10 years Sal and Justin come to me. I own the big gym in the in the neighborhood.   You guys are just just equally smart look the same It was to say almost exactly the same this one has a following over here exactly But you have a 15,000 person following Sal is only got 500 friends. So I got a strategy for this.  You're you're young adulthood into adulthood You've now had kids that are coming up So now you're savvy to it.  Thank you So here's so my biggest fear scary bro.  Anyway, my kids are not allowed to have public social media pages until they're adults period end of story The the amount of predators online, especially for you say adult Do you mean you're gonna manage that till 18? I'm not gonna allow them to have public social media pages And we'll see how this works out as I'm saying Yeah, I will not allow I'm thinking right now like a high school center daughter No, no, I'll let them keep it private like I have a private one like you know on instagram you can you can You can keep it private like that's okay But a public one is a big problem again, there's a shit ton of predators out there I was just reading about some huge You know bust that they just did on la about these pedophilia pedophiles that were Finding kids on social media and stuff and a lot of parents They let their kids have these public social media accounts, which I think is crazy. Yeah, uh, so that's that's number one and number two I think the best approach As with anything right? It's like when you're afraid of your kids having sex or doing drugs or anything I was like if you do the whole doom and gloom don't do it speech. They tend to rebel What I think I'm gonna do is I'm gonna try and teach them how to make it a business You know I'm saying like I'm gonna teach them the business of it like how you can make money off this How you can use this how you manipulate the herd that's what this way they could separate They could separate themselves from it a little bit and understand It's gotta get the money from your friends. It's gotta take their money son You dup them into everything you want them to do so so trip off this right This is a story I read a year ago and I just looked it up because I want to make sure I was accurate So you guys know that china so they you know the communist people's republic of china is using social media To uh, they're gonna start using social media to help control the population. Have you heard of this? No, I know so the please share so the china's so forward-thinking.  You're laughing right now, but check this out. This is scary, right?  Based on the quality. All right. This is great. Now.  Wow I'm not having kids Sorry, hun and it's confirmed when in doubt. We will that or we'll adopt a 22 year old That's uh, that's my other option. Oh Adopt a 22 year old. I like that approach. All right. Next up is fit by Fabian Hit versus list cardio, which is best to get ready for stage. I just love the acronyms You know what I mean?  Yeah. What are you doing right now list? I'm just listing. I'm just listing. I just like to list. Um It's the double s's that is my favorite. Yeah, so don't miss your list. Uh So which one's better? This is We've had a lot of a list. We've had so much less. Yeah, there's we've had a lot of these questions lately Where the answer is it depends? So here's the pros and the cons of each from in my opinion the pros of hit is It uh Burns a lot of calories short period of time. So you don't need to spend as much time doing it um improves, uh performance a little bit better Uh, if you're performance based if you're trying to get ready for stage that doesn't really matter So who cares about that? Uh, there may be a muscle sparing effect From hit under certain in certain certain circumstances Now with lists, uh, the The the positives are uh, it's easier. It's not as intense, but it takes a little longer If your workouts are super intense anyway, it may be more appropriate to do lists because If you're already pushing your body to the red line to the limit with your diet With your weights, especially if you're getting on stage and then you're going to go expend intense energy doing Sprints and stuff that may push your body out over the edge. Whereas a walk Or low intensity cardio is not going to affect your central nervous system as much And you'll still burn, you know that type of cardio Don't you do neat primarily adam and then like towards the end like getting up into You know the last like peak week or whatever. It's when you start experimenting with hit.  What are you doing?  I stay up two or three hours I have to walk in the mall. I have to go grow grocery shopping I had to clean something up in the yard of the house and all of that makes a huge difference in your total caloric expenditure So if you are dieting for a show and you're on a meal plan that your coach puts you on That is the same amount of calories every day to get you to lose a certain amount away Then your neat list and hit should reflect that So if you're not tracking a paying attention that you're already you're already losing the battle here So I think it and any pro that doesn't do that They're following their bro science of I've done this before it works for me But they really don't understand the science of what they're doing So when I start to get ready and cut for a show, which is kind of what I'm doing right now So if you're not paying attention to my insta story, you're gonna watch exactly how I interview attention, bitch You're gonna see exactly how I introduce cardio. I'm not doing any cardio right now But if you've watched When I first started I was averaging about eight to ten thousand steps a day And that was me not trying to move extra I actually went out of my way to be sedentary to not go Walk on the treadmill not make, you know, take extra steps park further away in the parking lot Just track. So I would track for the first week. See what my average movement is I was averaging eight to ten thousand steps As I start to decide I'm going to start leaning out getting ready for a show I then start to slowly increase my steps So you're neat like Justin was saying. So I'm just worried about that. No cardio. No list. No hit none of that yet I'm just starting to move more and I'll do little things like Park farther away in the at the gym. I'll park way far away Have to where I have to walk an extra 500 to a thousand steps to get in the gym and get out of the gym I'll go grocery shopping. I'll do extra chores around the house Little things that start to just increase the movement Then the first bit of any sort of cardio that I introduce Is 12 to 15 minutes of hit and when I do it I do it strategically I add three days a week on top of wherever my current steps are. So if I'm now up to averaging 16 to 18 thousand steps, which is about where I'm at now I'm almost to this point by the way where I'm going to start to introduce three days a week Of 12 to 15 minutes hit so post workout. I'll go over do 12 15 minutes of hit. I'm done. No cardio I'll do that for a couple weeks Probably about two since it's about all it takes for the bodies to start to get adapted to you your your cardiovascular training Then I'll start to add in some lists and lists for me is almost like neat So there lists is low intensity steady state cardio, right? So Walking so I'll get on the treadmill now and I will actively walk for 45 minutes to an hour But all of it is all relative to my movement in the day I won't do any cardio if I just like we just had where we just go katrina I went somewhere and I had like a 20 000 step day And if that happened during this process, guess what that would be the day that I wouldn't do any lists I wouldn't need to because I actually burned an extra 800 calories just through moving throughout my day So why would I add the cardio on top of that? I don't need to do that My body's already burning more than I need it to I would definitely do it on a day or guess what we were in meetings. We had to fly to florida We had to do something that Made me stay sedentary for a majority of the day So then I would do lists and the amount of time that I do the lists Would be dictated off of how much movement I did in the day So when I hear competitors that aren't tracking this and aren't paying attention to this It blows my mind because they get so caught up in all the acronyms of lists hit You know high intense are doing long bouts of cardio and Doing the robes versus the stair master versus the elliptical and it's like dude, you don't even know The difference between monday and thursday your movement But yet you're worried or you're asking. Oh, is this cardio better than that cardio? Like you need to figure out how much your body is moving and burning first and forget about if the tool is Exactly precise. You're looking for the consistency in your movement. You don't understand what i'm saying Yeah, and I'm glad you used the you explain the acronym because I just realized there may be some listeners Who don't know what the like what hit is and what list is so list is the long steady state low intensity cardio hit Is the high intensity short about interval type of of cardio? Here's the other thing you want to consider if you're getting ready for stage You know Competitors on stage tend to they look at cardio like it's this magic fat burning thing that they do All you're doing is you're burning calories Okay, you're trying to burn calories of cardio.  I mean, couldn't you technically like, you know, you've got this competitor who's eating You know one and a half grams of protein per pound of body weight and there's way too much protein Can't they just stop let's break the science doing that Let's break the science down on why I do that opposed to doing cardio and I'll explain this because I think this is important that people understand this I am less likely to lose muscle By reducing my caloric intake and just walking and being and doing focusing on my need Then I am to eat less calories and push my body harder on the treadmill We've talked about this on the show before if you do lots of cardio You are sending a signal to your body that it is not Advantages to have all this muscle that you built on the off season So I don't want to do a ton of cardio if I'm trying to lean out Sure, it helps burn lots of calories like salad saying But it would be way more advantageous to reduce the caloric intake and keep my intensity lower I'm more likely to hold on to my lean body mass How big of a role do you think the overuse of cardio you confuse play Well think about it the overuse of cardio with a competitor Getting ready for stage because I've seen competitors 12 weeks out already doing an hour of cardio every single day Like what role do you think that plays in them destroying their metabolism? Oh a big role and not and not only that it's crazy. I mean you could technically get Shredded you definitely could get shredded without a single bit of cardio It's like it's just you're already lifting weights. So it's not like you're not active I'm not talking about someone who's lazy and doesn't do anything you're lifting weights probably six days a week Anyway, think cardio for me Is uh having nitrous if I'm in if I'm a car racer, right? And I I all the real work is in building the engine the good tires aerodynamic You've done all the work to engineer the perfect car for speed car racer And you've also got this can of 50 shots of nitrous, but all you got is 50 shots of nitrous That's all you got You can and you can try and shoot it every single day leading up there until it runs out and see where you're at Or you can hang on to it and use it when you when you need to to actually get a little bit more out Or lean out. I beat all you guys it off-road. Well, I use this analogy because when you're when you're competing It's totally different than the average person who's just trying to get in shape when I'm competing I have a date I have to look a certain way on stage And I want to know that I got I want to know that I got that nitrous there For those final couple weeks if I notice that I did my timing is off If I come down to the last two weeks and I go, oh, shit I should be a little bit leaner than where I'm at right now. I'm a little behind schedule. Oh, guess what? I haven't done any cardio. This is awesome I I now have this that I can implement into into my routine. That's going to really help now That same person who's already do had has been doing an hour cardio Like sal said for their last six weeks of their prep They're in the same predicament as I am only Their body is so adaptive and all they can do now is add more cardio Which just sends a bigger signal that they need to be more efficient and maybe lose muscle It's just it's just Cardio should definitely be used as an emergency thing if you're getting on stage you're already lifting weights You're already active now if you just want to be healthy It's good to just totally different right totally different And if you want to improve your vo2 max and your endurance then cardio should be used for performance Support specific yeah for sure.  You know female competitors who are eating a thousand calories Lifting weights for an hour and doing an hour of cardio a day up until working up to a content It's ridiculous. It's crazy. It is crazy and I do want to make a point that This is when you're talking about stage.  That is should be a tool that you want to save in your arsenal and it's there for that I need to the last few weeks ramp things up Otherwise, I want to figure out. I want to manipulate everything through my resistance training the volume of my training And my my nutrition. I want to manipulate everything I want to save that cardio because like sal said it does not take very long for the body to adapt To whatever whether it be less hit or what no matter what type of cardio you're doing The body figures it out really quick and becomes very efficient.  Hey people ask us all the time how they can support mind pump. Here's what you can do Uh, you can go to www.brain.fm forward slash mind pump and get 20 off brain fm for meditation or focus You can also go to audible trial dot com forward slash mind pump and get a 30 day trial plus one free audio book Lastly, you can go to get nature blend dot com forward slash mind pump And you will get a discount on ben greenfield cbd product Next question is from justin lackey How do you reconcile the fact-based information you share on the show with someone like paul check who actively rebukes all scientific understanding? Somebody didn't like wait like uh check there. It's hilarious Uh, I don't know if I would say he rebukes, uh scientific understanding at all if anything he so First off, I don't think anybody is infallible. So including paul I like paul a lot as a person and I respect a lot of what he has brought to the wellness world paul check in my opinion Is the godfather of the wellness world that the holistic wellness world this guy's been doing this stuff Way before it was popular paul check introduced the physical ball to exercise he talked about You know using fats in your coffee to slow down the absorption before anybody else did he talked about gut health And microbiome health before anybody else did You know and and when he was doing this he was laughed at he was he was laughed at made fun of And these are things now that we take for granted things that we all now accept as science and is important You know paul check Yeah, I want to know specifics like he's he's saying like you know like he brought up things that were not within the scientific Slow any talk when he talks about spirituality Yeah, so I get I get where what he's trying to say by that because there are things that paul will say But still that was outside of like a regular conversation about like scientific practices that he applies This is what paul does a lot of and so I get i'm going to help kind of defend this guy a little bit But then i'm also going to check him because No, no pun intended, right? So that works so well. Yeah, right? So Here's the deal like paul absolutely is science based Yeah, but then what he does from all the science which he has he's like bored with science He has a ton of it. He's also the guy who is theorizing other things and going beyond where where where science has proven yet And so when you when a guy like myself listens to him and you hear him and you're like, oh, shit, that's Right on that's right. Whoa. Where we going now? Whoa Whoa, like that's I that is way beyond the question or the answer that I was looking for But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a rebuking science He's he's talking about theories that in my opinion make a lot of sense. Are they for sure, right? I don't know But I also don't know they're wrong either and I do know that the foundation of Everything that he talks about is very science. Well, here's what's funny If you if you were to take his course, especially the first Couple courses because once you get to the later ones then it gets esoteric as well from my understanding I'm never taking the course But it's from my understanding But if you take his early courses very very science-based if you if you ever meet paul And just get on a scientific discussion about the human body biomechanics anatomy The digestive system the hormonal system All you know psychology all these different things He is he's very very science-based the problem is he gets bored with that. So when we have him on the show I'll see that's why I think yeah when we get him on the show and we're like asking him questions about exercises and biomechanics He'll answer for two seconds and then he goes off onto His esoteric stuff, which is not science. It's the opposite of science and doesn't mean it's wrong It's just you know, how do you how would you discuss those esoteric concepts of like spirituality and all those different things How do you discuss those on a scientific, you know using the scientific method? I don't think you can necessarily right? So he kind of comes across that way, but here's the other thing about about our show Is that we have people on our show That we like but that doesn't mean we agree with them all the time right we we just like the people and You know, we had we had the polar opposite of paul check in this realm on our show too Lane norton we had a four-hour episode of lane you put lane in a paul and paul and in a room together And they probably turn into a black hole because this there's They because they're there's such polar opposites who know they probably spin around each other like nova explosion Yeah, who knows like but we like them both. We think they both bring interesting perspectives um, and we like to provide that I like to challenge everybody's thought process and I think that uh It's not fair to make a statement that he doesn't like live in the science realm because he absolutely does and that's the foundation Like you guys mentioned it's just that he challenges the thought process and it goes really out there And it's really hard to to sit and listen to some of those. Paul is not the best communicator. That's that's the truth So I think it's very I think it's very simple minded also to rebuke a person just because you don't agree with everything They say I mean like you just gave a great analogy dismiss them You know somebody right away lane in lane and paul may not be the two best friends and may not hang out with each other It may totally disagree on me But mind that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on at mind pump is that we are very open minded And there are qualities that I absolutely love about lane norton There's qualities that I absolutely love about paul check even though their ideologies may be completely different like that to me That's so small minded that you would think like oh Why would we bring someone on like we're gonna bring people on show a lot that I don't agree with everything they say like somebody was trying to It's more interesting.  We do the guy we hear it and are there takeaways from it?  I mean, that's just the bottom line right and Um, I guarantee you we're gonna have a guest on our show at some point that we disagree with completely I guarantee you will have a guest on our show at some point Where we don't agree with a damn thing they say But the reason we want them on the show is so that we can debate and discuss And maybe out of the debate and discussion that happens on the show People will learn something or it'll spark someone's interest to learn something or to look deeper So, uh, we don't agree with everything paul says Part of it's because I don't understand everything he says right and part of it is I may actually disagree or Uh, maybe I communicate it differently. The same thing is true with Lane Norton and you know, tom bill you and some of the other guests that we've had on the show So You know, again, I disagree with the question. I can't think of one person. I wouldn't challenge You know what I mean like on something right something. Yeah, absolutely.   Both are badass dudes in their own way. You know, I'm saying that that's what god I mean, I have maybe what's made me passionate about personal training is I love humans, dude I love people. I love how unique everybody is and what makes everybody tick man I think that is something that I always want us to bring to this show is like I don't ever want to Man, I remember when we also did, um, what was his name that we brought on for we brought him on for internet marketing And we totally went into the evolution creation talk Harry Marshall. Yeah And yeah, I know that freaked out some people because of his theories on that and got into these huge debates It's like dude. Yeah, it doesn't matter.  I'll figure it out I'm a very intelligent man And it's listening to him talk is awesome. Dude, I'm whether I agree or disagree. I'm telling you It's actually pretty it's it's enjoyable if you allow yourself to be enjoyed by to enjoy it To listen to people with completely opposite view from you if you just stop for a second and it's it's hard But look, we just watched the documentary what the health which was and we sat through the whole thing You know what?  I I don't you myself in the balls the whole time I listen to hear like like I want to hear what their points are like are they making good points now They made very few good points in my opinion But I enjoyed watching or hearing what their arguments are I want to hear what the arguments are because then I don't know What my side is well enough if I don't know what the other side is Well, I think when you actually talked about it We wouldn't have been able to do that because I felt that when you even discussed it You had such a great understanding of The passion behind the people that probably put that documentary together because of their passion for saving animals And when you when you fully understand when you watch all of it with an open mind Even though it's totally opposite of what we believe to talk about Yeah, it is very clear and you also have this compassion for them. It's not like this.  We want nothing to do with it. It's it's ridiculous And I would never listen to that propaganda. It's like, hey, you know what? I remember you you just talked about this on the show recently You said, you know When people are very passionate about something like some vegans are especially when it comes they look at animals Like they look at humans and they would do anything To save them even if that means putting out something that like is a little biased like that documentary is It makes me have even more compassion for it instead of being so angry about it that it's bad information It's like, hey, I get where they're coming from and I get how passionate they are about where they believe That they're willing to put some misinformation out there If it means that they can get three less people to eat meat because that's three animals That they could potentially save and that's three lives that they could be saving and that it's worth it For them. Yeah, I understand and you know the other thing you want to consider when people rebuke scientific understanding because I do that I do that sometimes too. We do that in here too. For example, the current scientific understanding of uh glyphosates or artificial sweeteners if I was to look up the current scientific, you know what what the FDA says what the The the the science, you know the the top scientific organizations will say their current understanding of those things is So far it's safe and use those things now. I'm going to rebuke them Because there's other there's other things there's other threads of truth that I'm finding and so my own research It just hasn't been accepted yet and I believe it'll change as we go along If I were if this were the 1920s, okay And I were rebuking the scientific understanding of of cigarettes If I were sitting here saying listen Cigarettes are addictive cigarette smoke causes cancer I would be rebuking all scientific understanding at that time of cigarette smoke because at that time Doctors and scientists were saying it's not addictive and it doesn't cause lung cancer So that's something else you want to keep in mind when you hear someone rebuking scientific understanding Don't block them out because you think they're rebuking scientific understanding.  This is kind of crazy. Let's like leaky gut syndrome You know 10 years ago. I heard about leaky gut syndrome first 10 years ago I brought it up to a lot of the doctors and uh that I trained I trained a lot of doctors and surgeons They laughed and they said it's oh, that's bullshit. You know, that's made up.  Guess what? It's starting to not yet, but it's starting to Become accepted you're gonna see in the next five to 10 years. It probably will be accepted now at the time You're crazy or whatever, but if you listened like I did I actually sat there and listened and I said wait a minute This could very well be true. This doesn't sound like bullshit a lot of these things that are happening right now We can't explain this definitely could explain the thing I don't necessarily believe that this may be the explanation But I do think that they may be on the right track and I definitely see how the current scientific understanding Is wrong on this it sounds like it's wrong in this respect Well, then you come out with better information. So well and certainly back to paul what I think when paul starts to get the Kind of religious spiritual talk. It really turns a lot of people away But I think the part of me that's so drawn to that is something that I found out in exercise science And being a trainer who was based off of that for most of my career I started to find out that actually that was the smaller piece And the psychological piece and the people's emotion and their and their relationship with themselves And all the shit that really science can't explain very well Was more important to them getting their goals and getting seeing the results they need to and actually making improvement in their life transformative Yeah, it was way more transformative and when I started looking deeper into that type of stuff, which is tough For me to explain as a trainer like, you know getting that hits your ego even harder Right, you know and try explaining at ego scientifically, right, you know, it's you can't it's really tough to do But yet we know that that stuff plays a huge role in people's success or failure Towards getting their goals. So when I hear someone like paul talk that way, sure I hear some stuff and I go that sounds crazy But a lot of good comes from what that man is talking about and a lot of stuff can be taken away. I wish He he communicated it a little bit better.  There's a lot of powerful things that he says in there that that isn't science based I've just seen too many things now in the 20 years. I've been in fitness and health I've just seen too many things that came out and at the time were Bullshit and it's not scientific and that's below fasting Fasting is a great example Did you know if you're a younger listener? You have no idea, but when I first got into fitness If you you talked about fasting because it was good for your body and it detoxed your body and you need to fast to get rid of Toxins, whatever we made fun of it.  Do you miss a meal? You're losing muscle Yeah, well, not only that but the liver does a great job of detox. You're not toxic.  They may have communicated in their language But they were right at the time they rebuked all scientific understanding and guess what scientific understanding says today They were right fast thing was right. So again, you got to be careful with and I have so many examples like Uh, I remember taking my kids to the doctor and they had a cough and the doc tells me You know, oh, yeah, if you give them some honey that'll help with their cough and I'm like what I thought that was an old Wives tale.  Would you look at that? So again Rebuking scientific understanding not a problem. Just be open-minded and you may find out that their information may be correct Check this out go to youtube Mind pump tv we post a new video every single day and here's why you want to subscribe to that channel When you subscribe you get an alert right away with the title of video and what we posted So you can stay up to date and learn how to train properly how to eat properly And how to stay open-minded so you can learn your body Better also if you want to ask us a question that we answer on an episode like this one The place to do is instagram you can find our page. It's called mind pump media You can find our personal pages as well. I have one. It's mind pump sal Justin has a personal page. It's mind pump. Justin adam has a personal page Mind pump adam and just and dug has one. You want to guess the name of it? What is it mind pump dug? Wow? 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