Hello, everyone, and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii's Human Humane Architecture. I'm the co-host of this program, DeSoto Brown, the Vision Museum Historian, and joining us by audio only from Germany is our host, Martin de Spang. Hello, Martin, are you there? I'm there. There we are. Right in early, but that's usually the case, because I'm half around the world. Yes, you are. To the 11 hours apart. Yes, you are. Let's go to the first slide real quick here, which reminds us of how we ended last time, where at the top left, you were so excited about the pokey store in Munich here in Germany, and then you let me go skiing with my son, who you see at the very bottom left with my daughter in law, and you were most excited about another food item, which is the brand that's shown on the Sundeck Lounge Shares, and that's undutla, and I'm not asking you to repeat that. No, I'm not going to do a good job of repeating that.  So, but obviously, these guys are not wearing appropriate attire for the cold, usually they wear the traditional multi-layered wool stuff, and here they're just almost naked, you know, they're like have the later holding on and no shirt and bikini. So I think they want to be in the tropics. Of course they do. And so my son and my daughter in law want to be in the warmth, and they go to their next step island, which is the island of Malta, to export their aloha-shaped eyes business there. So good luck guys on that one. So everyone wants to be back in paradise, so we go back. So let's go to the second page here, please, where we see this is our Champs-Élysées, this is Calacaua Avenue, that a whole Waikiki used to be palm groves, and which you see at the very top left on that historic book here cover where they were cutting through the almost like talking, you know, Paris houseman was cutting through the boulevards. So they cut Calacaua through the palm groves, and then through mid-century, the architects were really keen to keep that sort of character. And unfortunately today, most of that is gone fairly recently at the top right, we referenced a show we did about that we lost international marketplace, it was replaced with something pretty corporate American, not what it used to be. So here we're looking at what we were thinking might be the last piece of tropical, exotic readiness, sort of mysterious, you see this little merchandise hut, you see a tree, you see this sort of signage that's the carved wooden thing, and it points out a place that we want to go to. And if we go over to the next slide, this is us turning around and going into it. And the bottom we're quoting activist journalist, Kurt Sandburn, who was saying, this might be the last bit of gracious green ground levels in Waikiki. And if we go to the next picture, we see what we have to expect there, which is some nice refreshments here. This is a bar, obviously, or a restaurant, and it uses sort of typeface that reminds me of your Tiki Oasis keynote speeches that we're talking about. This is probably not original, but it's themed after that. But it makes us curious, where are we going to slash? Right. So we go to the next slide, and we see something very iconic for mid-century, which is an oval pool, a big oval pool. If we move on to the next slide, in fact, what actually dominates this space is the absence of architecture, that's the presence of nature. Here, a little bit of nature under dictatorship, because that's what a pool is, that's this natural element. But it's fronted and framed by, in the background, you see architecture. And the next page is something we're zooming on, and it's something that's a little odd to put next to people in their vacation. It's actually where you leave your car, and it's a parking garage.  So we're polemically proposing bumper public transportation, walk a lot more, and you free up a lot of space for basically hosting the homeless, and they can all move into the easy breezy and shaded parking garages. But that aside, look at the, look at the detailing here, even though it's modern technology is cast in place, but there's some delicacy, there's some love, there's some dedication, they're cast in these sort of patterns that are not nostalgic, they're not, you know, Chevron or palm leaves, what they do these days, they're abstract, they're soft-etched geometry, very nicely done, very delicately. And if you move on to the next picture, only if you then look up, if your eyes get drawn up, you see an artificial mountain, a chunk of architecture buildings.  Next picture here shows us that the complex has another wing. And this is fronting the street that's named after the person, the princess, who, yeah, gave the name to the hotel. Correct, princess got a new one. Exactly, move on to the next picture, there's what's really typical, we were talking about the show that's a very sort of efficient and effective construction and in concrete, that's very sort of international style, but they gave it some softening touch, which are these meandering and avoiding yet to say wavy, but that's what people would see these days, lanai, the lanai form. So they went through the effort not to make them rectilinear as everything else, but to give them that sort of sexy curviness. Correct. And we go to the next slide, that sexy curviness, our tropical tourism expert, Suzanne, was experiencing some years ago in another project that implies and applies that as well, that scene that is the Calhalla Hilton hotel where the guardrail is also bowed out. And we were saying, you know, this isn't just these days, everything we're seeing is still stuck in postmodernism. This isn't just to look wavy because there's water around. This gives you the very sort of utilitarian functional advantage that at the middle of the lanai, you can reach out the most and almost in your flying while when you go further to the side ends of your lanai, you're more sheltered from the presence of your neighbor. And once again, look at that division wall, it's got the same sort of intricacy of phone work that we were talking about earlier there. Correct. Right. Talking tropical tourism experts, Suzanne, we should go to the next slide in her show about tropical tourism. She was pointing out that all these hotel rooms these days look more or less generic. Well, you told me and we're still have to provide some images and some of the future show is that through the years from the heydays of this era when these hotels were built up to the 70s, even more, they're rather crazy in their interior decor, right? Absolutely. They were not restrained with plain white covers on the bed, but in fact, lots of pinks and purples and greens and oranges got inserted into these hotel rooms in the 1970s in particular, because they were really showing off that you were in a tropical place. You weren't at home, but it was supposed to be exotic and tropical. And today we have shifted away to this very bland color palette, as we see in the pictures here, which are from some of the rooms in the Princess Cut You Lanai Hotel. Uh-huh. Okay, we please move on to the next slide, but not without asking the audience, everyone to be seated because there's going to be some shocking news here that we have to share unfortunately. And this one is taking it slow because this was shocking about almost a decade ago. I think this article was from 2010 where there was the owners of these hotels here, which is pretty much a bunch of people like Kyoya and Starwood and people like that who own these properties, they wanted to redevelop. And they wanted to redevelop the mid-century wing of the Moana Cirque Rider. And our activist journalist, Kurt Sandburne, was lobbying against that and preventing it. Thank you, Kurt, because this is a very sweet, delicate piece that is very much alike the different parts of the building of the property that sort of Maoka, which is the Princess Carlani site. And here as well, they wanted to basically tear down the lowest story parts, keep the tower and basically build another tower. And while we were talking maybe urbanistically, we were saying these towers are basically in direction Maoka Makai, so they allow to keep the airflow on a macro scale. But if we look at the renderings at the bottom right, architecturally we weren't so sure if they would be of benefit and an improvement for the fabric of the Waikiki. And now people also see that we go to the next page because this popped up and you have to shock me around the world and say, Martin, look at this. So here there are again trying to do the same thing, but even more extreme, because they basically want to raise, as the article even is bluntly honest to say that, the entire site, the entire property and replace it with this. And let's look into this closer to the next slide. We're looking at the bottom part and we can only imagine this is going to be tons of parking.  These are the references at the top of the page that these days, the most of the dedication of architectural passion goes into decorating parking garages, which is typologically a little ironically, and also architecturally will ironically. We see that tons of in Kakaako, which is the one on the left, and we see it also in Waikiki on another hospitality type project, which is the Ritz-Caulton that Kurt was very critical about. And let's move to the next slide here because we're now we're looking at the upper part of the development, which is another tower. And it reminds us of what we show at the top of the page of the Ritz-Caulton. And then the Lanayze or the balcony seems sort of staggered and saw two lined up, and that reminds us we almost don't want to say the name of the owner of the hotel at the Trump Tower. So, you know, you would expect to be something of novelty, I mean, on such a property, and you pretty much find a mix of things that have been done anyways, very generic, very corporate. To me has nothing to do with tropical, exotic, erotic. I don't know what you think, what we can see on this picture here. Yeah, I think yeah, I just was going to say, too, that you're absolutely right that we see a lot of generic buildings in Waikiki. And the whole point of Waikiki, as you have been pointing out, is the mystique it has as the tropical destination in paradise. So, are we really fulfilling architecturally what we could be doing in this iconic location? Yeah, and we also want to, at the bottom, we basically quote from the news that this new development will have a little over a thousand rooms. So, a thousand and nine rooms. So, keep that in mind because we'll revisit that. Yes. Okay, but now I need a little bit of a therapeutic time. So, let's go back to the previous date, to the good old date, to the heyday of the property. Let's go to the next slide and talking erotic, tropical, exotic. This is it for me, right? I mean, this is where I want to be. This is what I expect when I want to travel half around the world. Right.  I want sort of these hot, a dicky roof architecture. I want a lot of sun. I want water. I want sky. It has it all. Correct. And the way it provided that is rather interesting because, of course, it's an urban setting. This is across this very sort of landscaping and almost suburban or somewhere in nature. But if we move on to the next picture, you tell me how this is sort of framed from the outside. Right. And this is, this was actually a meeting room facility that was built in 1958. But it looks just like or very similar to the buildings fronting the Princess Coyolani on Kawakawa Avenue, which are retail buildings. And they have a very distinctive, low-key, but very attractive appearance to them with textured concrete block walls and then this angular sort of thrusting roof that does have some kind of Polynesian influences. So, it is modern. It's mid-century, but it also isn't just generically like everything else. And it does have a very beautiful appeal. This building that we're looking at right now is gone. It was replaced in part of the redevelopment of this entire property with a building that we're going to be seeing very soon. Yeah. And it also reminds me, and I forgot to put a reference picture into a previous show about the Makaha Resort, which was also sitting on this horizontal concrete plinth. And then the more pagoda-like Polynesian buildings were sitting on that one. Correct. So, let's move on to the next slide here, which is a very cute and nice little illustration of the property. So, how they imagined it to be. And it shows all these aspects. And we put in a little reference to a previous show with Will Bruder, which where he walked us through what he really liked in this area. And this is the Royal Hawaiian Hotel. And the architects of this project, too, were Gartner Daily architects. And they were also commissioned to actually redo the interior mid-century of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel. Right. So, if we move on to the next picture here, we put in the date of the year of build, which is 1955. And if you go to some nice historic Hawaii documentations, I found that the same year dates the Sinclair Library that we were talking about a couple of times. And now that gets redeveloped, that we're basically very worried about, because they don't seem to keep the integrity of the original building. So, one of us, either us or Doko Momo, us have to probably shed a light on that one as well. So, let's move on to the next picture. I put in the the Biltmore at the very top right. And you tell us what's the relationship between the Biltmore and this first wing of the Princess Hotel. Well, both of the Biltmore and the Princess Cut You Lonnie Hotels opened in 1955. They were both about the same height, about 10 stories. And they both changed Waikiki quite dramatically to both appear at the same time. At the time, they looked huge and dramatic. Of course, today they would be dwarfed by everything else. The Biltmore Hotel was demolished in 1974 by being blown up by dynamite. That was the first building implosion in Honolulu, a bit of a big scale. And so, we'll see what's going to happen with the Princess Cut You Lonnie, if it's going to be a similar fate. Yeah, yeah. But let's first revisit what happened to it five years after 1955. And that's the next slide. You can see that in fact, that we're adding another wing. That's the one faces the Princess Street here. And that's only one story shorter than the original one. That's 10 story. And then move on to the next slide in 1970. So, one and a half decades later, they were building what's most iconic now, the 29 story tower. And we put in at the very bottom how many rooms this all together had and still has. And that's 1,142. So, if you compare it to 1,009 of the new, simple people like us start to wonder, okay, why do you go through what she pointed out?  For example, we will get to in one of the next shows because the hospital, which wasn't Waikiki, that they basically blew up. And if you want to blow something up in a sort of functioning and, you know, in service, a tourist industry, how do you want to do that? And why do you want to do that? If you don't provide, I mean, usually you redevelop because you want to make more money, right?  I think currently in the political realm, they're discussing to basically allowed to go higher with tall buildings, right? So you would think that's your motivation. So we're curious about exactly why do you want to redevelop. And from here, it's hard. I think we probably, if this would be a Doka Momo show, which you're doing one next week, we would have to stop. But since we're human human architecture, we don't. We keep on going. So let's go to the next page in 24. Here we're stepping above and beyond because we're thinking, you as a historian, you know, because you're going to be around in the next 50 years. We'll see. We'll see. I count you on that. All right, all right. And so you want to have something that you want to preserve in 50 years. We got to basically continue, which you pointed out in your last show in human human architecture, which was about the tradition of the evolution of innovation on the island. So you want to, you have to continue to create innovation, right? So on this page here, we did this polemic collage of one of the very sexy pictures of the princess and little references to a previous show where we were shedding a light on one of the new timeshare towers of the Hilton wine village, which is a rather hideous building that our tropical tropical here, David Rock was basically at the end. He said, what are you going to put on top of it? They put some hideous crowns. Maybe they want to be a queen. And we found out by thinking about it, maybe it's not the queen because they're homeless people on the beach. And the queens and the princesses always took care of their people. So they wouldn't have done that. That's right. So we're just looking at, you know, the similarity. And we want to do a show about a dress code and the dressing code. He told me that the queen, you know, was was raised and spent a lot of time in England. So she was very cosmopolitan. Yes. So she was, you know, she represented the best of both worlds, worlds, right? Western world and the Hawaiian world. And so I think the building does, you know, the building is a truly American high rise, but it's considered of, you know, orientation, the airflow, it's shading itself. It's pretty much, it's very tropical exotic, yet it's very modern, right? Right. And I think, too, we also were pointing out that the similarity, each of those wings has got the same lanai pattern, which I admired that they over this period of 15 years, they chose to keep that as a unifying factor of the three disparate buildings. And that's something that you rarely see happen. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.  I think that's very, very remarkable. Absolutely. That's admirable. They were saying, this is our signature style. They want to stick to that.  We have that, you know, maybe not that qualified, want to be the best and the star. Well, anyways, let's move on to the next slide here, which is tropical tourism. Suzanne again, when she was in Brazil, the other tropics, she was hugging that palm tree on that little picture here. And I put that into the picture that you provided here, which I find, I mean, talking erotic, tropical exoticness, this is it pretty much. I mean, this is why you go to the tropics. You want to be in love. You want to, you know, that's what you want to have in the jungle. And even though it's an urban setting, the composition, that's the success of the development provided that, you know, what people want it. That's right. Coming from the cold. That's right. Where I'm sitting here shivering. Yes. Where I'm in the warmth. So let's, let's, you know, sort of wrap up here and conclude with our polemic propositions. Move on to the next slide. Here's tropical tourism expert, Suzanne and activist journalist Kurt endorsing a project that we've been doing with the emerging generation, which is called jungleism. And we're thinking about, again, to, to continue to write this story of the tradition of innovation on the island.  And one of them is our mild tropical climate versus some other subtropical climate where it can't be as worse because it's always 100% saturated humidity. But here we got the trade wind. So maybe we want to rediscover the trade wind as a USP and work with that. So this one on a macro scale was proposing to strip the building naked, take off their curtain walls, let the breeze go through and then use nature to basically reinvigorate that kind of fabric. That was the goal of that kind of project. And then, you know, when you build something new, and let's move on to the next slide, and you're by now way better to describe these projects that we've been doing than I am, which I'm very happy about. But we want to make sure to say it's not about these projects in specific, they're just placeholders. Right. For medieval one. And we want to say is basically, at the beginning of the 21st century, if you pick up that huge amount of money to destroy that gem from its century, which you shouldn't, let's be clear about that, we would be more than happy to stay with our role and capacity of DOKA mobile members and showmasters. Please keep it, please keep it. But if for some reason you can, then please build something today, which is at least as good as the stuff that was built in the century.  Right. So that pushes the bar really, really high. Right. So what could that be? I think, and this is what tropical tourism, Suzanne teaches me that she basically says tourism is changing to, and I hate the term sustainable, but that's just the technical term in that realm. They call it sustainable tourism, is that the tourist is not someone that comes and trashes the complete resources. Right. Someone who becomes a short-term resident. Right. And basically engages both socially and culturally and economically and ecologically. Yes. So I think this is what a new hotel wants to be, to take this all into consideration. And primitiva could be what comes out of it, but it could be also something different. But along these lines, right? Yeah. Right. Exactly. And I think that, primitiva is one, two, et cetera. The projects that you've done in your teaching, again, are sometimes somewhat fantasy. But the point also is that innovation is part of this. And if we're going to demolish old stuff, let's look at what we can do better. Let's look at what we can do differently. Let's look at how we can evolve and grow rather than just repeat. Exactly. And then go to the next slide. This is primitiva, too, what we're talking about. And yes, they are visionary. But so were the hotels and the princess hotel we're talking about today was very visionary in this century. I mean, this was like building on an island with no construction industry, building something like that was absolutely visionary. That wasn't like copycatting something that has been done for centuries. But that's what they're proposing right now. I mean, that's really what we see on this rendering. And we let ourselves be surprised with more details. But as of now, we just have to say it ticks us off because it doesn't look like I want to create something that is unique at the beginning of the 21st century for our most unique island, right? Correct. That's right. So I kind of lost track of time, which I always do. But this time in particular, because we have some technical issues, VMIX gave up on us and Zoom gave up on us. And I guess Skype, so we're sort of like we're in limbo. But how much do we have left? We've got one minute left. So let's keep going. Let's go to our next slide. So these are from your archive. Isn't this beautiful? And they even say here, you know, soft tropical breezes waft through the lobby. So this is it. And if the hotel has that, just keep it. And the next one I love, this is from your poster collection. Isn't that beautiful? How they captured with this drawing, the aspect of an oval pool, the huts, the palm trees, the blue sky, and then the kind of soft as etched tropicalized, rational, international stuff. That's right. That's right. That's right. We just say keep that, keep it, keep it, keep it. But you know, if not, which is to be expected next slide, I think we got to continue to rebel sort of and be the public's conscious and also do a show about a couple of other projects that might be threatened as well. And this might be one, let's do a show about that one. This is part of the Outreger development from the past. This is just a cross. Let's do a show about that one. But more urgently, let's go to the last slide here is a project that the announcement of the redevelopment of the Princess property was pointing out. And I think they were a little screwed up with that mask because they said it's going to be the first new only hotel tower in 40 years. But then they reference the Waikiki Park Hotel, which is part of the Hale Kalani that was in 87. So they're not quite sure. But this project, the Waikiki Park Hotel is actually under development. And when I left, I took this picture here. So why don't we do the next show about that one? Because it seems really urgent to raise awareness about, you know, what people have. And we feel they don't even appreciate what they have. That's very true. Well, I think that brings us to the end of this week's show for human humane architecture. Thank you, Martin, for joining us. Thank you all of you for joining us. I will be back next week with a Dokomomo show about something from the mid-century. But till then, thanks for watching and aloha.


Alright, so let's take a look at some more algebraic problems solved using a tape diagram. So I have an object with a temperature of 160 degrees, and I'm dropping it into water to cool it off, and the water has a temperature of 40 degrees. The object cools while the water warms until they're both at the same temperature. That's actually a fundamental law of physics here. And it turns out that if the object's temperature falls five times as much as the water's temperature rises, then we want to determine the final temperature of the water and the object. And we could set this up as an algebraic equation, but let's see what we can do here. So again, our fundamental idea behind a tape diagram is every tape represents a quantity, and our equation is going to correspond to the equality of the lengths of two tapes. So it seems I have two quantities here. The object, the hot object, at a temperature of 160 degrees, so maybe that temperature is going to be 160. I also have the water at 40 degrees. That's our cold object. And they have two tapes, and because their magnitudes are different, their tape lengths are going to be different. All right, so let's take into account what the description is. We know the object's temperature falls five times as much as the water's temperature rose. So we might represent this by indicating the water's temperature has increased by some amount. Here's our new magnitude. And at the same time, our object's temperature has dropped by five times as much. So five of these blocks, and here's the important thing, it's dropped to the same temperature. And so there's our equality. New water temperature is the same as object's temperature minus five of these blocks. And so I'll draw that. So here's my object's temperature. I've taken five of these blocks out, and then here's my new temperature. And those are the things that are supposed to be equal. Now, we could try and solve it this way, but it's actually going to be a little bit easier if I can actually see the two tapes of equal length. I can see that this is equal to this bit of a tape, but it's a lot easier if I actually have two tapes that I can actually see that have equal length. And so what I might do is I might take this block here, and if I extend it by one, two, three, four, five of these blue blocks. So if I take this water temperature and extend it by five of the blue blocks, I'm going to have two tapes of equal length. Well, now, wait a minute. This tape here was the same as this tape here. Again, what this was, is this was the original object temperature dropped by five blocks. In other words, the original tape is 160. And so now I have two tapes, still of equal length. And now I can proceed to solve this. Now let's get rid of that 40. And so now I have six blocks, is 120, which tells me that each individual block must be of size 20. Now if I go back to my original figures representing the new temperatures of the waters in the object, well, I know that now that these blocks are of size 20. So that says my water temperature, 40 and 20, is now 60. And the object temperature, 160 minus five of those blocks, is going to be also 60 degrees, which will be the same temperature, which is what we wanted, because we wanted to make sure that the two ended up at the same temperature.


Yeah, it's about to go down man. Check it man. Check it. Check it. Check it. It's a unique house issue boy. E CEO and I'm here with the lovely official Miss Jamaica. What's going on? Say man, it's going down man. We have a special guest in the house man. She don't need no introduction. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. She been rolling all through. I be seeing always on the internet, you know, I'm nosy. So I'm watching all the talent that come through man. Say man, check it man. Me, Shawn is in the building. What's up sweetheart? What's up? Man, we hear a man. We hear a man. Yeah, you made it man. Boss talk one-to-one. You know what I'm saying man. So what's going on with you?  How is it for you? Everything's been a blessing. I'm like that. You know what I'm saying? You know, I just got signed to heavy hitters, you know what I'm saying? Check it man. Heavy hitters. Y'all got a new one. We finna turn up. I dropped a tape called Big Mish.  So what I'm being, let's go all the way back. You know, I don't never like to start off too far into it. I want to go back to, who is Michelle? You know, I got back before the music. Back before the music. Can you remember that far back? I was really trying to go to school. Okay. It's crazy because I wasn't even trying to be a rapper. You what? No, I was trying to be a model. I was trying to be a man the next time I model all that. Okay. You can do it.  Thank you. I was trying to, but sometimes you know how you got that thing in the back of your head? Like nah, this ain't it. Not even in your head, like in your heart. You know, like this is not really it. You know, I was confused. I had just graduated. Stuff was going on. I felt like, you know, I'm getting a lot of likes on Instagram. I need to be a model, you know? Right. But my daddy hang with the jail. Free Kris G. That's my name. What's his name again? Kris G. Kris G. Still locked up? Yeah. Say, man. Do you be writing him? Not really. Can we be talking on the phone? Can you can you give me his address? I'm going to write him. Yeah, I'll be writing. It ain't weird. I do it. No, it's cool. Yeah, I'll be writing a lot of people like because I've been through a lot. So I want to just send some words of encouragement. Oh yeah. And then I get to say, yeah, I interviewed your daughter, man. She dope. She out here doing her thing. You know, that may, that'll make somebody smile. That's what it's all about, right? He used to rap, too. So what? Yeah, that's where I get it from. Your manager used to rap. Your daddy used to rap.  You know, it's in the blood. So, you know, how old were you when you decided up to rap? I think I was like 18. I think I was like 18. I've been rapping since I was like third grade. You know, I used to write my daddy. I would let go to the studio with him. But when he got locked up, I was already writing. Like, sometimes I like, you know, how you do like the little rap videos on Instagram and stuff. I was doing that. And sometimes it'll go viral, stuff like that. But I never wanted to take it serious until he got locked up. I felt like we had like a connection, you know? And so it just went through the music. It was a connection. Yeah.  Or was it, I mean, was it, did y'all have a lot? Or was it something to where the struggle hit you? I mean, what's up? Honestly, was you spoiled? Yes, a little prince is like whatever I wanted. I got a little girl. Yeah. But how many siblings? Uh, I got three little sisters. Oh, so you was older? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Are they proud of you? Yeah. No, my babies. They should be, man. It's a blessing, man. I mean, so, so when we, when we looked at you and I started to look at your music, it definitely resonated well.  I've been checking it out, you know, we're gonna get into a lot of it.  You know what I mean? Thank you.  Yeah, I ain't gonna say that that worked for me. You know, I'm married now, but you know, a lot of people that the lyrics, I think, and it's just my opinion. I don't want to sound old, but I just feel like a lot of times the lyrics are so much more powerful than the girls are given credit for. And so when I looked at yours, yours really had a story to it, something that, that there was essence to it. And I think that's important, don't you? Yeah, I do. Because sometimes I feel like we forget to tell a story in the song. You know what I'm saying? We all over the place. Don't get me wrong. I feel like some of my songs, I'm kind of like just talking my stuff, you know, but, uh, I got some music where I got some songs where I tell a story like what I've been through. You know what I'm saying?  That's cool.  And I just got to feel like, okay, I'm gonna ask this nigga for some money. You know, I just got to feel like that you can be like, I'm gonna go get my myself. You can have some song like that. You know, so I try to like, you know, be versatile about it. I think that's, I think that's the way to go. I mean, you when you really look at it and you look at what, you know what, you have to find that way to be different way to where you're not looking like everybody else, right? You know what I'm saying? And I think a lot of times people look alike out here. When I look at female rappers, they look alike. When I look at different male rappers, they look alike. And you just hear a lot of the same stuff. You know what I mean? So that side out to you for trying to pave your way. Yeah, yeah, side out to you, man, because when you did that, sorry, but when you did that, you looked at what was out here and decided on who you need to be, or this is just you naturally. This is me. You know what I'm saying? It's a blessing and I could kind of stand out. You know what I'm saying? And it was hard. It was so hard. I used to cry because I'd be like, you know what, I'm doing this all by myself. I feel like nobody looking at me. You know what I'm saying? But I feel like I just needed a team behind me to push me because I was doing it all by myself. And that's when I got blessed with heavy hitters. And now I'm able to just, just go my full, you know what I'm saying? Because I have like motivation. I got like, you know, you have a lot of girls out there. And if you had to advise a girl who feel like she has to be sexy, she has to show all of this. She has to do this to be seen. How could you advise her to let her know that? No, you know, what does she have to do?  I don't want to be that person. I'm like, don't do that, don't do that, you know, but I honestly feel like you don't have to do that. You know what I'm saying? I feel like it's a way to do certain stuff. It's a time and a place. Correct. I think it's the lyrics. You're a song writer, so it's really what the call, what the song called for. Yeah. Every song that you write, if that's what it called for, you stuck in a place. And I can say this, that you have to have balance. You know, I think that there's a way to do anything and have taste to it. It can be tasteful. But then you also have to basically be able to do other things as well. You can't just do the same thing, right? Right. Because like, I got hard songs, you don't want to have a hard song. You talk about this, this, and you shaking your, you know what I'm saying? But, but you know, if you got a sexy song, where it do cost me, okay, cool. Let's get it, let's get it. But you gotta do that all the time. Every time. And I think that, I think that happens a lot. I think girls get stuck because they think that's what, you know, different management teams too, and different people that they sign to. I mean, because when I look at Megan and I look at the way she does it, and it's tasteful. Even though she does it, yeah, but the lyrics are so dope. Yeah. And she can afford to do it so she can balance it out. But I think that's something that, that right there is a, I think that's a, that's a gift within itself. Everybody can't do that. I love me some Megan. But am I right? Yeah, you're definitely right. And the same thing. I think they got good people around them that's showing them, okay, you do this. But at the end of the day, you know, we got a choreographed, everything right. We ain't for to be out here looking no any kind of way. You don't want to look amiss. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if you, if you're going to show the body, you got to do it in a professional way. You know what I'm saying? I don't know ratchet stuff.  You know what I mean? You don't want to look trashy. Like they don't look trashy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've seen a couple of the, the, the, the video.  Right. And I don't think that I've seen you just where you just straight up just dancing with a group of girls yet. Is that am I right? Yeah, that's right. I'm watching everything because I want to make sure that I ain't nailing it wrong, but, but it's probably going to happen. Like in my videos, it's one, it's called bounce. Okay.  But I mean, are they dancing together in on point or is it just something where y'all just hanging out? Kind of just hanging out. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.  And you know, already, you know, that's a good thing. Yeah. Cause you're going to hit those levels where you're going to have to call the dancers in. And yeah, they're going to have to get ready for that budget. And we could do it this way. And it's all about what you wrote. You know what I mean? And actually, I love dancing. I used to. Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to that happen to where I can, you know, do something. Did you have management before you have this current management team? I was in sign. No, but it was more so it was just like, you know, I'm going to help you out. You know what I'm saying? It was like that. But before that, I didn't sign with nobody, none of that. Okay. And I was still doing everything by myself. No, no, no shade. Right. But I was, you know, I'm big on just look, if you ain't going to do it, I'll do it myself. So how did you meet your new management team? Actually, DJ Ice sat out to him. DJ Ice, yeah. And he's a DJ, of course. Yeah, I met him. Yeah. He's supposed to be coming on the show. Yeah, that's my brother right there. Yeah. But I met DJ Ice, like maybe like a year ago or something like that. I had like a gig and he was there. And we were just cool ever since. And he always told me he said, when I get on, I'm gonna put you on. So I hit him up. He had been kind of seeing like I needed management and stuff like that. And I just asked him one day, like, you know, like, I'm looking for management. He was like, I got you. I'm signed to, you know, heavy hitters. He was like, just hit him up, send him some music and stuff. So I was quick with it. I hit up low Dizzy. I think I hit up Cartool. I think I hit up Cartool. But I had DM'd him like my shows. I'm like, look, I do this. I get to jump in. You know what I'm saying? I had send him some songs and it was messing with itself. I like it. How soon after you send it to them, did they return that call? Well, like a week or two.  What happened? Well, it probably went even that long, but he'll busy me and hear me so. Look, I was all the day he even respond even seen me.  That's good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've been saying really Ziggy had was already sending me beats. OK. Mind you, Ziggy is young. OK.  Talk about some beats. And so but he sent me one beat. It's I got a song called Karma. OK. Be hard. He's so talented. Oh, yeah. Don't be been on the show, too. Yes. And so out to Ziggy, man. Ziggy made it. He was trying to send me some beats in a little dizzy. Actually did me on accident. I forgot what he said, but he did me on accident. He was like, let's see. And I was like, huh? I was so confused. That's a small world. I just feel like it. Like everything happened for a reason. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like that was just all God like that was meant to be, you know, yeah, like I feel like it's like family. They give me family vibes. I like it, man. So just, hey, man, ride the wave, man. I ain't going to lie, man. It's dope that you got a family, man. A lot of people never find that family. So I was going to ask you, I mean, being from Fort Worth, did you what you could end it up with top off? You think so? Yeah, they was they from Fort Worth, half prime, Fort Worth. See, under them. So so that that could have happened, but it didn't. I'm just saying I'm just thinking about it because I had people on the show. Yeah, they definitely popping that stuff. I know, I know a few of them on top off. I play that would have been it. Yeah, but God has a way of working it out. It's in his time and in his way. You know what I'm saying? And he don't do nothing and make mistakes like us. He basically got it popping for you. Yeah, I'm just thankful everything worked out the way it did because I feel like I made the right decision. They made the right decision. Like we feel family. Yeah, it's a lot of talent coming from over there. Yeah, it is. So you say you have younger sisters or any of your younger sisters doing music or one of the music. No, no, of course, they didn't like I can rap, you know, they do stuff like that. But they don't want to rap. You know, well, you don't know. Yeah, you might be surprised. They got to put their work in. I wouldn't be surprised. They got the attitude. They got all this because you might motivate them. Yeah, they do big sister. Yeah, and they see and you hit that stage, man. And it got to be something because everybody don't have that. I love the stage. I see. Yeah, I see that stuff. That's my favorite thing. Like I can't stand y'all. All y'all do is pull stuff down off Instagram.  If I can't stand y'all, man. I don't like young folk. I don't like them. I don't like young folk. Why do people do that? Why are they doing a generation doing it? You're young. So yeah, why are they doing that? Why do they go ahead and they delete all their old stuff or hide it and then just have just a few thousand followers? They want to nigga to anticipate the way that's what it is. So while I do it because even right now I don't have nothing on my page. I saw you have four posts. Yeah, only because it's crazy. I just didn't like what today for yesterday and maybe something like that. But I did it because I wanted to start over. Like if you see all my old stuff, I feel like that was like the old me showing me coming up. I love the old me shown because that's why I'm here today, you know. But I feel like I progress, you know. So me dropping my tape, I feel like this is what I want y'all to see.  They not taking me serious as a rapper. So let me go ahead. You know, I got to extend out. I hate to do it. No, no, no, I didn't. But let me start over, you know, and I got my heart break song on there. That's my song. So yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to get into that. Yeah. So I just, you know, I just want to start over. Give something something new. OK, but like my advice to that or my opinion would be sometimes people like to know where you're coming from. Right. To see where you are and not just to see this person, this new person. So like for me, I'll put a block of white and say new beginnings or whatever. So they know that. OK, this is all me. Yeah, that's OK. I got some of them. You understand what I mean? So you don't want to throw away the new you want them to see, especially young girls who are watching you. Right. They're looking at you like, oh, she already got there. They're not seeing the process and how long people can go back on your Instagram and say, oh, she started doing this in 2000. Oh, that's a long time. Oh, she been grinding. Yeah, like she been doing this. Right. But if you hide and all of that, they can't see your story. Right. Yeah. But she want to change her story, too. But the thing I could, I would say to add to that. OK, go ahead. I would say make a fan page and keep stuff going to where you can have your fans being tuned with what you're doing in the changes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Instagram page. You kind of want people to see where you are right now. Where are you going? Correct. And so you could do a fan page still, right? And then make it to where you could send them there if you want. But over here is, you know, you get to see what's going on with me now. See, that makes it. I mean, I just hate to have it on my page because, like, it is hard when, like, I don't know how to explain it. It's hard for them to catch on to what I'm doing because they're like, oh, she's just too pretty and she this and that. You know, like, I don't know how to explain it. I just feel like. They're still going to look at your beauty regardless, no matter what you're doing. You don't, my dude. You don't. Thank you. Yeah, you keep getting it in, putting it in Niggas' faces. These niggas need to know, you know. Let's get into the music just a little bit, man. So big old freak freestyle back in 2019. That was dope, man. We'll have with that, man. That is dope. That's so crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, originally it was supposed to just be for, like, Instagram, you know. But then I was like, that ain't it's too hard. I know the video. I liked it actually.  Yeah. So I just feel like it was right. Let me go ahead and, you know, put some respect on me. You know, let me go ahead and pop my. Oh, man. Went hard though. Went hard. That was crazy, yeah. I liked it. That was one. What about rude? Rude, that's crazy because when I wrote that song. So that was back. Now you got a remake or something? Yeah, I had remade that song. I had made that song. What year is it, 2021? No, that was in 2019. Let me see, let me look, let me look. Let me see that I put it down because you know me, I'll be back. At what? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking because I had re-recorded it. Yeah, no, no, no. It was a while back to be honest with you. Yeah, it had to be 2019. I wrote it in LA. Okay, you did right in LA?  I was like, all right, so that's what I wrote it in LA. Oh, really? And you say you re-did it? I just re-did it on another beat. It was okay. Okay, that's gonna be dope. Ziggy made it be. Ziggy made it be, yeah, let's get it right. Ziggy always made it be, yeah. Let's get it right. Because I always wonder, because some people actually take their old songs sometimes. I'm sure if it didn't get the numbers that it should have come and redo it and make it new to the modern stage right now. I actually did that with Bennett. But what exactly does it take? You have tons of songs before, why that song? Why Rue? Why Bennett, like the one that you say you need. Oh, Bennett, why do I do it to Bennett? I don't know, like... So what makes you pick a certain song to redo? It just really just depends, like I might have writer's block, and I'm like, let me go through my notes and see what I got in here. Let me see what I can pick from. It just be something simple like they don't be like, oh, I wanted to put for this song. It don't really be like that. So do you think that, I look at the elevation of what you've done and your body of work, you know what I mean? Coming from the first song, Bitt, won a whole lot of money. You know what I'm saying? When you look at it from that perspective to where you are now, you see the growth in your whole career. You know what I mean? Yeah, mama, it's funny because we laugh at that song. What's crazy is that that song, The Course, I didn't write the hook. I wrote the verse. This boy came into IK Studio, I heard of IK Studios, right? I used to just chill up there every day, just chilling.  He sucked, I forgot his name. I think it started with artist sucks, I forgot. But yeah, he came in there introducing himself. It's not until the nigga that starts with an artist. Oh yes, I do. Shout out to you. Got him. But he came in there trying to introduce himself and... You smiled at him.  And Wes was like, no, he asked me what I'd do. I said, I model. Wes said, nah, she a rapper. Wes Visual, shout out to him. Wes Visual. But yeah, he was like, nah, she a rapper. I'm like, nah.  And so he like, you got some now. Now you test me, you know what I'm saying?  Let me hear something. He was like, matter of fact, I got a hook for you. You put your verse on there. So he did the hooking up, put my verse on there, killed it. And then... That's where I came out. Yeah, that was it. And that's dope. I like the way that, I like that. Yeah, it was crazy, but it just went. It was my first song ever and that's when I recorded it. Like maybe like two days later or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I posted it and people was messing with it. Man, we going down through there.  And me, Shona, is your government name? My middle name. It's your middle name. It's dope. It's dope. I like my name. That's a beautiful name. Thank you. Do a lot of people tell you that you look like you're mixed with Asian? All the time. Even this Asian dude came up to me talking about that. I was like, what? You didn't even try to get in me, Shona. No, Lord. Nah, he don't want somebody to leave me. I'm crazy. Let me talk about that, the song Nasty You Did in 2019. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. I was in bed and I was just listening to meets on YouTube. And I was just, I don't know, I was just feeling the way, like, okay, like, I just, I don't know. Sometimes I freestyle before I actually write it. And this was before this was when you were doing it all on your own, right? Yup. All by myself. How did I miss that? I should have been on that. I would, I feel like I wouldn't promote myself a lot. Maybe if I promote myself like I was. No, no, no. I would, I'd be trying, I'd be trying to look for people like you. Yeah. That ain't promoting they self a lot so I couldn't catch them early. Okay. Yeah. But y'all were just chilling in bed in my room and just chilling and I just, I don't know, just feeling the beat. I'm like, oh, she nasty. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you went on with it. Yup, not just. How long does it take you to write a song? It depends on if I'm feeling the beat. If I'm feeling that beat like crazy, I finish it and maybe like hour or two. But if I'm kinda like, I don't know and I gotta think, it depends. What's the longest song? What's the longest time you've ever took to write a song? Like a week. I just couldn't think of nothing. I'm like, you know what? I gotta take a break. Let me come back. It'd be like that. I can see that. I can see that. Especially like, I got all the time in the world now. But at first I was busy, like crazy busy. Like I'm busy like with music, but I'm talking about like even outside of music, I was like, you know, personal stuff. So it'll take, it depends. So let me ask you this. You love doing the music. You're always focused. And you think that you can take it all away? Yeah. Are you nervous? No. A lot of girls, a lot of competition in this thing. And there's a lot of girls just out here just really, you know, talking, they talking. I can name them cause they come on this show now. I wouldn't have been able to do that before, but I see the aggressiveness of all of them and how they feel like they next. Everybody say they next. What make me shine different from those girls? I feel like, you know, I'm not trying to put no salt on nobody, you know. I feel like all the girls is doing they thing. And I, you know, I support all that. I just feel like I was made for it. I was built for it. It's in my blood. I feel like God, God, God, I feel like God promised me. I already know you. You know what I'm saying? I pray every day and he didn't show me so much. That's deep. You know what I'm saying? I feel like he didn't show me so much. I feel like he know that I deserve it. And I feel like he want me to have something like that. I'm God's child. You know what I'm saying? I feel like I'm one of God's favorite. That's how I feel. And I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna make sure I don't feel him. That's how I feel. If I don't feel him, I'm gonna make it. Your life is predestined. So it's already written. Thank you. That's how I feel. Well, you know, and if not, you can hit him with some of that on-site energy. Do it. Woo! That song, I was mad too.  So what was up with on-site, man?  You said, I don't even do no talking. I believe in an on-site. What is that? What do you say? I ain't trying to talk. I'm trying to fight. You know what I'm saying? Back then, you was getting to it. I'm not saying I'm just this big fighter. You know what I'm saying? I feel like, oh, I can be her. I can do this. I can do this. Now, I'm gonna get out there. And I feel like if you disrespect me, I'm gonna have to let you know, look. Yeah. You can handle yourself. Chill out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I don't wanna just seem like, oh, I'm just this trouble maker. Yeah, yeah. But it's definitely being times where I had to tell girls, look, where you at? Where you at with her? Where you at? And sometimes I didn't call myself, where I feel like, okay, we doing too much sub between. We doing too much. I'm trying to pull up. Oh, really? I'm saying. Sometimes some girls just look at you and start arguing with you. Because you know some people, and I don't think they're still doing this today, but I remember girls used to always do that.  I get that a lot. And it's crazy because I get that more so from the pretty girls. Yeah. So I'm like, dang girl, you're pretty. I'm pretty. What's up? Like, why you guys are like that? I just feel like that's crazy. You got a problem within yourself. That ain't got nothing to do with me. Because I'm very genuine. Yeah, I'm very genuine. I'm very loving, open, armed. You know, so I feel like if you got a problem with me, it's because you just messed up in the mind. As much as, and people don't realize, as much as we see a lot of people who look pretty, they don't even think they're pretty. Yeah, that'd be the problem. That's why I'm like they got a problem within themselves. It'd be crazy. It'd be sad because sometimes it, I don't know, it'd be people within your circle, all that like, it'd be crazy, but I don't even like. Don't even trip. Don't even trip. Don't let them know, don't play with me. Go know about your business. You gotta be careful. You gotta watch everybody. Yeah, that's how I try to pray. God, please keep my love ones around me. The ones that's genuine ones, you know. So, he been doing that so. Late night, it's a sample of Between the Sheets, that's in that song. And a lot of the songs today, when you look, a lot of the bangles, a lot of the big songs that come out is some sampling going on. Yeah. What made you do that song like that? It's crazy. I think his name is Marty. Marty sent me that beat on Twitter. And shout out to him. That was a while back. Yeah. I told him I wanted some sample beats. Like I love me some sample beats. I bounced his actual sample beat too. Okay, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just felt like I want to switch it up. I want to make a lovey-dovey song. I'm an old school nigga. When I said, when I heard it Between the Sheets was in my mind, but I heard what you were saying and it was dope. And the delivery was on point. Thank you. You know what I mean? And that's something that the people really, they really, they gravitate back to that. You know, I'm an old cat that I know I've seen them do it before and it's just coming back around again. So it's a good feel to hear the songs coming back and they sampling them and they making them hit right and making them fit in today's. Them be my favorite songs too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It gives you a certain deal where you, you know, yeah, where you feel like, okay, I'm gonna get that, I'm gonna get that out of the brother and play with it. You know what I'm saying? Who else sampled that song? Ziggy, I mean, who else sampled that low D's that Between the Sheets? It's been a few of them. Biggie. Was it Biggie? Oh yeah, Biggie did. Was it Biggie? Yeah, yeah. That's really what motivated me to do that song. That's right, that's right. When I heard that song, that's what I thought about. Yeah, cause I said, I said a part like that. I love it when he come. It was something like that. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I just liked them samples, man. They coming back. I love it. So I'm telling you, it's just coming right back around. So yeah, yeah, I'll be paying very close attention to those songs with those great beats and I will be trying to play with them a little bit cause it's gonna pop. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's crazy cause I love like old school music. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. I love stuff like that. What's your favorite old school music? Ooh, I'm an R&B type of girl. So what's your favorite song? Let me think. I like, it's WV Weep. Don't give me such things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's my life. I just wanted to say, I can't explain why your love, it makes me weak. Yeah. Ooh, I get so weak in a new year. I know what y'all doing, boy. So yeah, man. So I know you gonna drop us a little something today. You know what I'm saying? Game face song, you know what I'm saying? You gotta let me bring it in though. I gotta feel it first. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? All right. Check it, man. Me showing in the building. Say, man, it's going down, man. Yeah, man. Let's get it, man. I'll let you boys a unique hustle. Boss talk one-on-one. Uh. Bitches be mad, I'm on top. Making a mouth, they niggas on lock. Thought that you had them, but bitch, I'm the plot.   Bitch, I been hard like them C-men. Yeah, I'm a sweet, but a D-man. Fuckin' with me, then I come with your net. D-bitches be mad, cause I ain't normal, man.  Bitches be mad, I got them in a chest.   And this is the girl I got to ask you and kiss. I don't even trick, cause she know what it is. Check it, man. Check it, man, just like that, boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me, Sean, in the building, man. How let you boys a unique hustle? With all that attitude and everything. Oh, yeah, yeah, I love that, man. You, hey, man, I felt that, bro. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That was it right there, man. So, check it, man. And you know, what's the process, man? I mean, how do you come up with what you going with? When you writing, do you have to be in a dark room? Do you have to be in a room where the TV ain't on? Or how do you process the music when you writing it? Well, first, I got some food in my system. Oh, you got some food? Give me some wings. I would have thought of everything, but the girl said she got to have some food. Look, if I got some wings, I'll just play with Nobby for real. If I got some food in my system, I got energy. You know what I'm saying? But really, I really got to be in a quiet place. I ain't gonna lie for the most probably in the restroom. Like when I got out of the shower, I thought I just got done singing a list of music. I'm like, okay, you know, I feel fresh. You know, I just got done eating. Let me write something in the restroom. Or I'll be doing my hair just freestyle. I'm like, ooh, let me put this on. Oh, yeah, that's what it be. Yeah, or sometimes when I'm just chilling, I just got done watching TV, I write.  I got to be in chill mode, writing mode, like that. One thing I always want to know, because I know when you're a seasoned artist, right?  You tend to always remember them. And being a new artist and you writing multiple songs back to back to back. How hard it is to remember. How hard it is, yeah, how hard is it to remember? I've never forgot on stage. What? For real? You be like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm not even trying to tell my own horror, but I feel like I was made to perform. So like, I always just, that nobody ain't gonna notice it because I know how to just, I almost felt of the day. Uh-oh, Beyonce fail. Just I was about to say, just I was about to hold down stage. And she got up like, it was nothing. You working? It was actually a Yellow Beezy, a Yellow Beezy and Jose de Bodega show. It was like in, where was it? Man, you fought, that's a lot of people, my dude. You pretty just fall. No, it was out of town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. When you slept, you caught yourself. I was, I had some big boots on. Yeah.  But luckily, I don't think nobody seen if they did, they didn't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I'm a pro, look. Man, made it look good even when it was bad. I was so mad when I got off the home, like, did y'all see that? We do got on video, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. I wish I had called it out to put it up as a bloop. Look, look at your ceiling. No, I wouldn't do that. Right? So, I wanna talk about the soda. There's something that's dropping at midnight tonight with Big Mesh. Big Mesh. Big Mesh in the building. You know, turn on, I know Lil Mesh now. Big Mesh. Big Mesh, yeah. I like that, I like that.  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was just, we was looking for names. Because people been talking about Big Mesh coming out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they cut the time back, so yeah. It's gonna be late, you know. When is he coming out? I don't know, they don't know. They just give us a little tease so he might be home, you know. But shout out to them cats. I think one of the brothers got out, too. We all subject right now, but yeah, yeah. So what, so heartbreak, man, you know, that's the one I've been seeing. That's the latest and the greatest right there. Oh, I looked at that video, girl. I looked at it, I liked it. I'm like, this girl's got some acting skills. No, not only acting. No, I might be on a big screen one day, you know. There's a lot of people who try to give you that heartbreak-felt music and they try to give you that quiesha-cold moment, but they can't. Yeah. And I think you nailed it. Yeah. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? Thank you, yeah. Because I could see that in your spirit that I really, I believed you. And that's when it's good. I believed you. It's my story. Yeah, so this was real. Oh, yeah. So you with the nigga for six years? Mm. Look at her. Ain't no sign of you with this nigga for six years. That nigga fighting on you? Oh, no, hold on. Did you put that one? She's like, oh, I'm just looking at her. Oh, I'm just looking at her. There's some tugging going on now. Okay, I'm looking at the lyrics, man. It wasn't crazy.  It wasn't tugging and stuff, it wasn't tugging and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you wrote a song about him, did he ever contact you about it after that? No. He can't even contact me. What was it like working with Twan visuals? I loved it. That's my dog. Like he's so genuine. Shout out to Twan. Shout out to you, Twan. Yeah, he's been on the show. Yeah, he always come through for me, always. Like that's my dog. I love the way he works. Yeah. Yeah, he dope. I'm telling you, he's dope. He's dope. I love my wife. He dope. Oh, really? Look at it. She's like, stop filming me. Exactly, that's exactly what she's doing. That's what men do, they test them.  That's what you say. Yeah. That's why I come out, that argue you was talking about. Yes, it's not just always physical, but- It's mental as well. Yeah, it's like just wake up, mad, just wanna start stuff for me. That's what I went through. Yeah, I've been through that too. Yeah. Not with you. It's draining. Yeah, with you. Like he just didn't wanna see me happy, I felt, you know.  You can't do nothing but lay down. That's it. Like, I don't need you. That's all you can do. You know how many dudes could I do that? Man, man, you know it's hard to be in a relationship in the industry anyway. Yeah. Real talk.  That's how I see it. You say my mama told me not to never sell. Yeah. Is that true? My mama always speak the truth and she feel like, of course, she got all girls, it's all girls. So of course she feel like don't, you ain't gotta settle for nothing. She didn't see me.  She just gonna, like, deserve better, you know? Yeah, she jumped in the pink joggle and she left. She had a zebra luggage and she come up out that thing and she was leaving that nigga and she got in the car and start rapping or singing on the damn, she was hurt. And I believed you. Yeah. I believed you. That's the whole game. Like, I believed you. That's what I want you to do. Because you know how many people, nah, I don't wanna just say about girls, you know? Cause boys go through it too. They got that girl that just nagging, they, probably cheating.   Yeah, so I just feel like that's for anybody. Like, when I posted on my page, I was like, look, if you going through this, like, this sign, go ahead and go and batch up it. So you think, so do you think that's something that we can get anytime you come out with a project? You gotta give us one like that every time. Oh yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm gonna speak that real, yeah. I mean, cause that help people. And that's why, that's really why I put it out there. Cause I didn't wanna make it, make it seem like I was dissing who I was, who I used to be with, you know what I'm saying? It was a subliminal, it was a subliminal. How long ago was this? Two weeks ago. Yeah. No. No. I love, I love, like, last year. Like, beginning of last year. Shout out to that nigga, you lost her. Have you given up on her? Or you moved on already? My being that, I like that. No, she single, guys. Yeah, she single.  Oh my God. She single, yeah. No, the thing, we gonna mess with y'all here. No. So, the thing, the way I look at it is you, like I said, you killed that song, that video, you gotta top that next time. I tell everybody the same thing. Every time you do another one, that's one thing that Jay-Z told Kanye when he first did through the wire. He said, that was a good album, but can you keep making them? Yeah. That's my goal, just keep going better. You know what I'm saying?  You know, just keep going up.  Where do you self in two years? Where I see myself in two years? I see myself. And what will it take for you to get to that goal in those two years? You said, let's say it one more time for me. Where do you see yourself in two years? And what will it take for you to make that goal? In two years, I see myself in good. You know what I'm saying? I see me and my family out of the hood. I feel like everybody say that, but that is what it is. It's all good. No, no, no, no. I just see us in a way better position. You know what I'm saying? I feel like mentally, physically, all that. You know what I'm saying? That's how I feel. And I feel like what it's gonna take, I feel like I just gotta believe in God and keep, you know, having faith. BMG, you over there, you loving the movement. Yeah. And you know with what you're doing, the only way Nicki Minaj was able to blemish was she had to out-wrap them niggas around the bridge and Lil Wayne. Listen to me. I'm serious now. Yeah. You got to out-wrap these niggas. I'm talking about the Yellow Beesies and the Bodegas and all that. Yeah. Yeah, you got to come with me. Then my boys will look. We got to sing. We got to sing together. I'm trying to come with you. I couldn't stand that hard. I'm sorry. Listen, man. I'm sorry about that. Yeah, you got to come for them niggas' neck. Yeah. I got to. I'm sorry. That's the way it got to be. I don't give a... And listen, I want that fire. When I hear you and I hear y'all collab, I'm going to be like, you better not let me down. Yeah, I ain't going to let you down. How far does it go? How far does it go? That means I'm going to let myself down. I can't do that. Come on, man. You got to come with it. And I'm definitely looking at the way people structure. And I'm seeing y'all got a good lineup. But the great ones in your shoes, they got to be harder than the niggas because it's hard for a woman to break. So you got to bring it. I'm going to bring it. Like never been brought before. Yeah. All right. I know I'm going to be watching. That's the reason why I was about to ask the question is how hard is it being a female in today's industry? I ain't going to lie. It's hard. Because I feel like the niggas don't take us serious. They look at us like, girl, you're just a girl, or they just want to get with us.  You know, they don't look at us like that. It's like we got to work 10 times harder than the niggas. Okay, let them do it. Like that's just what it is. Then do it. Don't take us serious.  Like, is it, do you do it or? That's all right. And in that industry, what is the major, what has been, it might have been before this management team might be not. What has been the major obstacle that you have came upon that you can say that that is the biggest obstacle I've ever had to overcome in my career? Where the business is concerned? Really like recording with certain people, like with certain dudes, men producers, engineers and stuff. They be weird, you know what I'm saying? Well, you're cute. They be trying to figure out how to get next to you. Yeah, they be doing too much. Listen to me.  If they younger than me, see when you young, let me tell you something. They get old and acting like this. Oh, man, I mean, when I was, when I was about 28, 29, that might be old to you. Yeah, you weren't for the big, you've been in the studio with me, but I mean, looking like you looking, these niggas, mine is there.  Yeah, I don't even pay attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, listen, man. I'm trying to hear all that. Once you have a good management team, I can see that stopping. But early on, it was some challenges. Early on, I knew that there had to be some challenges. Yeah, it's a big obstacle for me because I hate to hear stories about stuff like that. And it's like, it's heartbreaking because it's like, who want to go through something like that? It wasn't nothing big, but it was enough for me to be like, yeah, nah, this ain't what I want to do. You got with the right team. It can discourage a lot of people. It can discourage, because I've seen, we've seen it on here. We've seen where artists would tell us things like, people made passes at them and the way in which how they did it is like, you can't get this unless you do this.  He's with big people that was up in the industry and hot right now. And they say things to these people and they discourage these girls because they trying to get on and you do it. And I was like, oh man, he's pretty much got, he got major songs and he could help me get on. Then he say something like that. I've been through that. Yeah, so that's a part of, but you gotta have tough skin. Yeah. Or like when they want to ask me questions because of what I write about, like, you do that for real? They do stuff like that. I'm like, boy, come on with it. But okay. Look at what you do for it. You be shooting for real? I'm like, they be doing so much.  But in the music industry for females, you don't hear a lot of females coming up and saying this happened or that happened or, you know, sexual harassment. And I know it happens all the time. They need to speak up because I show will sit up like the corporate world because you don't got resources. But they need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. You got it. For real. You don't go to. No. They need something to protect the woman in that business though. They really do because I'm sure these are some stories that we've heard about, but I'm sure that there's worse stories. More to come. Yeah, that is scary. Yeah. More to come. Yeah. That's why I'm so glad I got a team because when I was by myself, oh, Jesus. So top three artists of all times did our live. Any genre. Male or female? Top three artists of all time. Number one. Nicky. You got to come with it. I just told you that. You got to come with it. You got to come with it.  Yeah, hard. Then all of them. Ain't nobody harder than Nicky, man. Ain't nobody harder than Nicky. Nobody. I stand behind her why she ripped niggas apart and women at the same time. She just put out all old songs in and can't nobody compare to them songs. That's dope. Number two. I like Lil Baby. Lil Baby, Lil Baby a lot. He's very, very talented. Very. Number three. It's always the hardest. Oh, it is. Number three. I like me some J.Cole. J.Cole. OK, so she said Nicky Minaj. Give me the second one. Lil Baby and J.Cole. J.Cole be speaking in real or like him. Oh, really, man? Yeah, he does. I like listening to him.  She's about 16. When did you start? Oh, no, 18. 18, well, and to get her prepared for what she's about to face now, what would you say to her? I would say don't let nobody play on your top. OK, OK. I feel like when I was letting people try to bring me down, I was letting them. OK. And I feel like that stopped a lot. OK, that slowed the progress. It slowed it down. So I feel like if I knew what I knew now, I would have been gone. Oh, really? Everything starts in the mind. Yeah. So you have to condition your mind to, you know, think a certain way and be a certain way. I used to be depressed. Oh, yeah? Like crazy depressed. So... Well, let me ask you, so the new release that's coming out tonight. Man, we got to listen to. Do you have any videos that's already... Your heartbreak, right? Heartbreak is actually not on the tape. No, it's not. So what's the new video? It's not for clearances. Is that...  But I do got some visuals coming. I did one for Handle that. You know, not out yet. And what else? I did one for Relay. OK. And that's not out yet. That's not out yet. It's going to be on the tape. So, OK. The videos? No. We got to listen to. You like to hold people in suspense. You love to hold people in suspense. Next week? Look at him on Snapchat. We got to listen, man. And yeah, that's dope. I mean, you know, because at the end of the day, the video coming out next week, this interview is about to come out Friday, it's going down, man. It's going to be late. Yeah, this whole thing is going to be turned up. The song, once the album come out and everybody's loving it, they're going to be looking for that visuals. Yeah, man. I love visuals. So that's why, like, they be on me, too. Like, we need these videos, you know? So we be on it. If it be turned up, y'all are going to be seeing a lot of me. I'm going to put it like that. Check it, man. Here we go. Let's listen to this a little bit. Check it. This one is my favorite song. It's Big Me. OK. Fire. OK. So what was it? What was it? What was it I know here? I just feel like they be doing too much. They be Twitter guys. It's like, look, like I told y'all, what's up?  You ain't going to put on no show. You know what I'm saying?  Yeah, like what you on? Like what are we doing this for? I'm gonna see the visuals to this one. Right. Mm. It's gonna be a real cute watch. Nah, I love what's going on with you, man. I might be the switched up on y'all. I got me a new, I don't know, got me a new favorite, man.  I don't think the internet give you enough justice. They don't, yeah. I'm talking about far as the weight of, I'm not talking about that point. I'm talking about some of the ways when I look at your brand.  Thank you. I be watching every, she know how I am. I'm looking at everything and my mind be going so many different places. They'll wake up soon. No, no, no, no, you gotta focus too.  That's how I know they're gonna wake up. I just, I just, to be saying came out, yeah, I ain't seen everything.  Every day. Oh really, man. I like that one though. Yeah. We got me showing in the building today, man. I feel good about it too. Yeah. I'm glad I'm here.  You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, I knew family and friends, huh? Aw. Already. I like that one, man. So that one was, been that? Yeah. Man, like that, man. That been that going in, man. Yeah, that's my song right there. That's your song? Yeah. They put me in the mood, like, I know them girls gonna be in the car, you know, they got their nails. Yeah. I need that visual, man. You don't get it, it's gonna be lit. I know it, you come get my old school. You know what I'm saying? We put that old school in there, huh? Yeah. Yeah, we can make it pop. Let go, let me hear that rude. This is your right of favor right here. Okay. Ziggy, man. Ziggy. That man got it right there. Hey. So you, what you sitting at writing this right here?  Was that the way it was? So do you think real life, like, mental issues is going on with you and somebody, like, I don't like this? Yeah. And you decide I'm gonna write the pen to it? And give me motivation. Yeah. So what's up, man? A lot of my songs, like, a lot of my songs would be based off how I'm feeling right then and there. Yeah, that's dope. I like it. That mean it's real, it's resonating in. So it gotta be real. It gotta hit you in the spot, right? Gotta be 100, man. And I know a lot of people go through it, so it's like, why not write it? Why not let them feel it? I know they gonna feel it. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I love it, man. Like I said, I can't wait for the album to drop, you know what I'm saying? Man, you gotta talk, yeah, I'm trying to figure out ways to get over there with low Ds in there. I know that's right.  Yeah, early on, I'm supporting.  Yeah, that's real, that's real. Yeah, I get a percentage of that thing. Hey, look at him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we both work it. And that's right. That's the way it go down, though. Business, you know what I'm saying? That's all about business moves, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Straight out of footwork, man. I hit these boys in the face where it hurt. With the right team, y'all. She's still growing. Yeah. Man. I can't wait to see how I look. Are you serious with me? Yeah. That's gonna be crazy. You don't remember them words. Put on. Go with it.   Might as well put this in, show me.  My niggas know I got him on forever on my 10 toes. Tested bitches, gangsta, they softwareed in my pillows.  Hey, that's what I'm talking about, man. Y'all don't even know, man. Feel good to me. That's my father right there. I better know them right there. That's a new project, right? Yeah. So we definitely appreciate you for coming on the show, man. Thank y'all for having me.  Man, how can people get all of W? You know, follow me on Instagram, M-E-S-H-A-U-W-N. And Twitter, I just named my Twitter name. Come on, now. Come on, now. I'm talking fast. I should keep everything the same. Say hello. Yeah, look, I didn't want to have a custom word in my name. So that's how I changed it. It was like, Misha on hold up. Yeah, what is it, big Misha? It's Misha and G. That's my latest name, G. That's dope. Yeah. Hey, man. So, man, hey, man, we love you. You always welcome to come back on the show.  Yeah, and that is right. Yo, we are Canadian this thing, man. So anytime you need us to pull up for support, be like, I want y'all to come check this out. We don't show up, okay? That'd be awesome. Man, God bless you and your ventures, man. And we wish you much success, man. Exactly. Same, man. Boss Talk 101, it's been another great segment. And we out.