But first, it's Friday and here to discuss a busy week in the news. We're pleased to welcome an all-star panel. Let's begin with the man joining me here in studio today, Dan Scanlon of the Florida Times Union. Good to see your smiling face. It is great to be back. It's great to have you. And joining us remotely, Ben Becker of Action News, Jacks. Hi, Ben. Hey, Ben. How are you? It's Raymond Troncoso, WJCT. Hey, Raymond. Raymond is also with us of WJCT News. We'll get to Ben in a minute and rounding out our fabulous foursome, Nikisha Williams, columnist at Jacksonville Today. Hey, Nikisha. Okay. I guess we're having Zoom issues today. We'll work it out, folks. We'll get them all with us. Lots to talk about this week and we'll go to your calls in a moment. We are live on the radio and you can also catch the video stream on Facebook and YouTube live now. Give us a call as our fabulous foursome breaks down the week's top stories, 5492937. Drop us a line at First Coast Connect at wjct.org. Send me a tweet. Facebook always open. Let's begin with our top story. Now, industry experts say the problem is pretty simple. Here's the problem. Nobody wants to be a teacher anymore. Now, for multiple reasons, it's seen less and less like a viable, fulfilling career option. Florida Education Association report shows more than 9,500 teaching and support staff positions across the state of Florida are currently vacant and that includes hundreds here in our area. Teachers are concerned about pay. There's a referendum here in our area that would increase local teacher pay that you, the voters will vote on next month. And people are also in the classroom say that the job has become too politicized. They've criticized everything from Florida's don't say gay policy in the classroom to the stop woke act and other legislation. They say that those are the kinds of things driving them out of the profession. What are your thoughts about the teacher shortage? Give us a call 5492937. Dan Scanlon, let's begin with you. Next month, there is a referendum on the August primary ballot where Duval voters will vote up or down, a military increase that would increase teacher pay and also pay for arts and athletic programs in the Duval County public schools. Do you think the voters are inclined to give that a thumbs up? People can be very short-sighted and they may not be thinking much beyond next week or next month. I can tell you right now every teacher that I know and I'm married to a retired teacher, they're putting together their basket of necessities for their classroom, the stuff that their kids are going to need that comes out of their pocket and is then given. We're hearing a Nikisha Williams baby chiming in with her thoughts about the teacher shortage. We'll get to that in a minute. And the bottom line is money is coming out of the teacher's pocket to make sure that their kids thrive. And why? Because as I asked my wife last night, teachers don't teach because it's a job. It is a choice they need to and want to. They want to give to the community. The problem is, as you mentioned, there are so many things that a teacher faces now. If they open their mouth and say something that a teacher's aide, a parent, or a smart A student hears, then there's a complaint and they're facing some violation of one of these new legislative acts where they can't say or can't do or can't show or can't post. So it's very tough to be a teacher right now. And it's very tough to do your job and not be scared for what you're saying or doing. And then the pay issue and the lack of funding and the lack of support and the fact that there's no arts and no sciences sometimes. And then, as we heard in Duvall County, because of the lack of teachers, you were ending up jamming a lot of kids into an auditorium because there was one teacher to teach two or three classes. So the overcrowding, the money is necessary. Will people see that there's a need for this? I can't say. I'm still unaware of this. Right now, my mind is focused on the fact we've got a sheriff's office race popping up in six weeks. That's the first election I've got to think about. We'll talk about that, too. But Ben Becker, what a parade of horribles Dan just laid out for the teaching profession. And let's be clear, in Duvall County, the educators are trying to make the case to the voters. Look, they just missed an A district rating. The schools have improved a lot in this county in recent years with test scores, graduation rate, everything. And they're saying in order to remain competitive, particularly against St. John's County, that they're trying to make sure teachers are compensated adequately. They hope that might offset this big teacher shortage. Ben? Well, Dan just laid out a pretty grim case right there. It's kind of hard to follow up after that. Teaching has always been difficult. And you ask most teachers, they tell you they do it because they love it. And that is the driving force behind it. It's not the pay. It's not the hours. It's not the glitz or the glamour. It is just the love of the game. You have to wonder how they're going to deal with it as it currently rests currently. And going forward with that referendum, I am curious if Duvall voters are going to vote for that, if they're going to approve that pay raise, especially since all the costs have gone up in time since this was first proposed. So if I was a teacher right now, I'd be currently worried about not only my overall situation, but this referendum, I would be pessimistic. Yeah, Nikisha Williams, of course, the voters heartily approved to have sent sales tax referendum for Duvall schools recently to fix up school buildings. Now they're being asked to vote for education again. In a time, as Ben said, of inflation, we're at very low unemployment and the economy is doing well overall, but people are feeling the bite of inflation and hoping that it declines soon. We've started to see gas prices finally ticked down a bit. That's good. But it is an uphill climb, I think it's fair to say for Duvall to make this case to voters right now and a high to the little one. Yes, good. Good morning. Annalisa is high as well. It's it's a hard case to make to talk about you need to increase the middleage rate and property taxes for education for teacher salaries, but we also have to realize that just because we don't like increasing taxes for these things doesn't mean that they aren't. It isn't necessary mostly because we have a teacher shortage and teachers need to be paid what they're worth, not just the living wage, not just the bare minimum, but what they're worth so that they can continue doing the profession or we're going to continue to have teachers leaving the profession of teaching to do something else that pays them better so that they can live their own lives. So I understand why no one wants to approve something like this, but it's absolutely necessary and critical. Things are going up, which means the cost of living is going up. It's not just for everyone, but teachers, their cost of living is living is increasing as well. Here's an email from Rob. We've got a teacher in our family in Florida and I can tell you that besides the lack of pay, the political pressure and the laws enacted in this state are taking their toll on good teachers. I hope your audience recognizes this is a big part of the problem. Raymond Troncoso, WJC TNews, what about that piece of this? Yeah, I think it's important to show that money isn't the end all be all. Florida is actually in the top half of the country in terms of starting teacher salary. Teachers in Florida are actually paid pretty well compared to their peers in other states. However, that's not the only thing. Degrees for people who want to become teachers are pretty, I think they're at like a 40 year low in terms of people that are actually seeking degrees to become teachers. It's really hard to entice people to get into the profession because while that starting salary may be high, there's then not a lot of growth. There's a lot of stagnation, especially over the COVID pandemic. A lot of teachers left and they couldn't be enticed to come back because their pay never increases beyond that starting point. So there's a lot of moving parts here that are beyond just pay. It's the attitudes that teachers face in schools, not just from students and parents, but the pressure that they're under to deliver without a lot of chance for growth and progression or really good benefits. Things like that are just really hard to bring people into the profession when they know what they're going to get into. If you're just tuning in, it's our Friday Media Roundtable, live on the radio and on video stream. You can join us on the phone. We'll go to your calls in a moment, 549-2937. Now, let's talk about another big story from the week, and here's a question to callers. I want to know, have you thought about who will get your vote next year for Jacksonville Mayor? Who will you vote for? Do you even know who's running? We're going to explain all that, but we want you to call us up and let us know who you think should be the city's next mayor. Do you want to continue with the kind of leadership the city has had or do you want to make a change? 549-2937, call us up because you may not realize this, but 6 point, excuse me, 8.6 million and counting already spent, Jacksonville's mayoral elections are going to break campaign finance records. We are a year out from the city's mayoral election, but the huge fundraising is already underway. A new poll shows Democrat Donna Deegan currently leading in the race. That could change as more money gets spent and more people check out the candidates. Let's talk about the candidates and the money. Dan Scanlon, Florida Times Union.  Mayor Lenny Curry used that tactic to win office nearly eight years ago, nearly 10 million spent in that race. We're easily going to exceed that this time. I'm gonna dare anybody out there to name the seven possibly eight candidates who are running right now. I mean, even I didn't recognize the fact that along with Gibson and Deegan, we've got city council members, Liana Cumber, we've got Al Ferrara, we've got Franky Ray Kessler, Jr., Republican Darcy Richardson, Omega Allen and somebody in the chamber is raising money already. It looks like, and yeah. Daniel Davis who heads the local chamber of commerce already raised 4.5 million. He hasn't even officially declared to run yet. Donna Deegan's name is certainly big out there. Everybody knows her, but Dan Davis, if he's got the money and I'm already seeing a handful of ads out there for the sheriff's race which is coming up in six weeks. And I know they raised a ton of money out there, at least two of them. So if there's millions out there right now, then the ads are going to come within, I'd say within days of the August special election. They're gonna start early and they're gonna hammer them out there. And you will soon find as you are right now with a certain former sheriff or former police chief of Orlando, you're gonna get hammered with these ads every chance you get. And you will know at least one or two of those seven or eight out there. That's right. Now, Ben Becker of Action News Jacks, Dan listed the candidates. Let's talk a little bit more about them. Daniel Davis, former state representative heads the Jacks chamber. He hasn't even declared yet, but he is the top fundraiser so far, 4.5 million. His likely opponents, Lee and Acomber of the city council and Al Ferraro of the council, both Republicans and the leading Democrat in the race, Donna Deegan have raised another 3.2 million combined. State Senator Audrey Gibson, who's termed out of that office has also filed to run. Some have seen her as possibly a Donna Deegan spoiler. Well, we'll have to see. But you know, this is just extraordinary that a city's mayor's race is attracting this kind of money. Extraordinary. Well, it's an important job. Actually, and I find it fascinating that out of the four biggest names in the race, three of them are women. So that's, I think it's something to take note of. When you look at the candidates, they each bring a certain quality to the job and certain things to look at. Daniel Davis, he's raised all this money. He's been off the radar. He hasn't even filed. Some would look at him as sort of a curry clone, but more accomplished. And then you look at Donna Deegan, who's polling well apparently, but she hasn't raised any money. In these elections, typically it's all about the money. But then if you're going to look at it that way, it's going to be Davis or it's going to be Cumber. And right now, you have to figure those of the two leading candidates here just based purely on the money. But of course, Davis has to get in the race. And speaking of money, the interesting part with Davis is for him to run, and if he was to win, he'd actually be taking almost a $300,000 pay cut to go from the chamber to become mayor, which is fascinating to me. So he must either love Jacksonville a whole lot or there's more to it that we don't know. Let us know your thoughts about the city's mayor's race, 549-2937, Dave on Amelia Island, watching from up in Nassau County. Hi, Dave. Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm listening to this discussion and hearing money mentioned over and over and over again. And no one's talking about the corrupting influence of money on politics. I strongly recommend that at some point, you hold a more in-depth look at what... We lost you for a minute, but you're absolutely...  Okay, having trouble with your connection, but I appreciate you calling in with that Dave on Amelia. Well, and he's absolutely right. Nikesha, Florida is like the Wild West when it comes to campaign finance laws. There are loopholes bigger than a truck for candidates and political action committees to drive through to hide the source of money, to shuffle money from one candidate or issue to another without any watchdogs being able to trace the original source of the money. There are theoretically rules on how much donors can give each candidate. They can only give 1,000, but they can give unlimited amounts to political committees. And Florida allows candidates and committees, certain types of committees to coordinate. And so, yes, we do see the corrupting influence of these big dollars in our politics, big time. Back to what we were talking about when Lenny Curry first ran for mayor seven years ago. He was, at the time, he was the chair of the Republican Party of Florida. And so even though he did reside in Jacksonville called Jacksonville home, he had a very broad statewide presence. And because of that broad statewide presence, coalition and support from the GOP in the state coalesced around him and allowed him to spend his way into the mayor's office after defeating Mayor Alvin Brown in that election. And he's continued to wield his power and influence and pocketbook and a way to get his money and to do what he sees as best for Jacksonville. But you also talk about the corrupting power of influence. Let's not forget that, you know, even though the mayor's office hasn't been dragged into it, that whole J.E.A. scandal that's going through the federal court right now is rumored to have started in the mayor's office and it's proof of the corrupting power of money. So when you talk about $4.6 million floating around, $6.5 million floating around a mayor's race that's not until a year later, and we can't even name all seven candidates, you have to take into account why is so much money floating into a mayor's race in Jacksonville, Florida, in Duvall County? And then what are the implications thereof? And then what is it trying to help set up for in the future? Because I guarantee there's probably a future election, say maybe the 2024 presidential election where a certain governor is trying to win Duvall County that would Democrat for the first time since 1974 in 2020 is trying to reclaim. That's why there's money in so much money floating in. And I think if you follow the money, we'll get to the real reason why it's coming this way. Mark and Mandarin, hi Mark, good morning. Hi, we had a mayoral race where there were four televised debates and then another three televised debates for the runoff. And I find those extremely helpful. A lot of money spent on advertising that doesn't, advertisements don't help me at all. We need a lot of debates and it's kind of funny to ask people who they favor when we haven't had any debates yet. Yeah, Mark, thanks for that. You know, Raymond Troncosso, WJCT News were a year out, but as we get closer to the primary and runoff elections for this race, we will see the candidates debate and that will help voters get a better idea of who they like. Yeah, it's important to note that money isn't the end all be all when we're looking at presidential elections and the 2020 elections. I believe the Republicans on behalf of Trump spent about two billion and the Democrats and Biden spent about 1.7 billion and Biden won that election in 2016 was the opposite. Clinton and the Democrats actually outspent Trump. And though they won the popular vote, they lost the electoral college. You know, Jacksonville is the 12th largest city. There are city races that raise a lot of money, especially for one that's becoming more politically important. But it's important to note, it's not the end all be all. Name recognition is important. And so while you might have some people in the race spending a lot more money than other candidates or raising more money than other candidates, they might not be as well known until those debates. And as we saw in, I guess, the Democratic primary, you had people like Michael Bloomberg, who some people thought because he had been spending lots of money before he came into the race who do very well once he finally entered. And then when he entered in the middle of the primary season, he got creamed basically despite spending a lot of money. So it's important to note that money isn't the end all be all. Curry, when he was elected, he had, like Nikesha said, there was an apparatus around him to get his name recognition out there. People coalesced around him. Even though there are Republicans that are the big spenders in this race, there's more than one that's running. And so there's gonna be no party coalescing around one candidate, at least that we can see at this point of year out until we get to a runoff. That's a fair point, I think. And let me get a little more into the poll we received this week. It shows Donna Deegan as the clear front runner, I'm quoting from the news release, to become Jacksonville's next mayor in the eight-person field, Deegan leads her closest to competitors by 13 points. She is listed as favored by Democrats and independents in Duvall County and competitive, they say, among Republican voters. Although, of course, we would expect Republican voters to come home in a runoff election between a Republican and a Democrat. The poll says local voters are in line with the Deegan campaign that the city needs change. I think that's a big point that we're going to be hearing about in this race, Dan. Do voters want more of the same in Jacksonville or do they want a change? And, you know, will blue voters turn out in large enough numbers and independent leaning voters to elect another Democrat to lead City Hall? And I think the independents are a key here because they're the waffling right now. On the national level, they're seeing what's happening on the January 6 hearings. Some believe, some don't believe. There are some Republicans who are starting to lean more towards certain feelings about their party and the overall insensitivity that sometimes exists there. There's others who are party line true and true and I don't know what to say right now. Obviously, Donna Deegan has name recognition. Daniel Davis has name recognition.  You also remember him as a vibrant young lawmaker who actually made a name for himself. Certainly, Audrey Gibson is a well-known name in many parts of the community and she's a tough fighter out there. Leanna Cumber, come on. These are all well-known active political people either in office or doing things where they are well-known in the community. The name recognition is going to work in certain parts of the community versus others. Also, as a guy who does film production on the side, it's gonna cost a ton to get these ads done right now and even more to get them placed where you want to see them. And you know something? Everybody's got a mute button. Everybody's got a DVR now. Everybody can turn off the ads and then you have a population who just doesn't still know who's running. You know, it's amazing how, we talk about this all the time in political journalism.  They say the ads don't move them but we keep seeing the ads. So they must work on enough voters that people feel the expense and the trouble of mounting them on local TV is justified. Right now, certain ads I'm so disgusted at that I'm seeing in certain races that I'm literally muting them or turning the TV to another station. Again, thanks to having voice command on my remote. I can just say, and it goes to something inane. On Facebook, Tom says, I will not vote for any of the council members for mayor as that body as a whole has colossally failed the leadership test. Deegan seems like the best choice. But another question from a listener was the Donna Deegan poll, a push poll. That's a question that we can get into. Let's go to Craig and Murray Hill. Hi, Craig, good morning. All right, yes, I was going off of what a caller said earlier about the corrupting influence of large dollar donations. I find it interesting if you look into a lot of our council members races and also even a mayoral candidate, historically, it looks as if the majority of the money that's coming to them is Republican donors. I'm not to say that there's a lot of small dollar donations that's something that is traditional as well within the Democratic Party, but I just wanted to see what the panel thought about the corrupting influence of future policy and legislation. Thanks, Craig. Thank you for that. Ben Becker, Action News Jax. Of course, I gotta say, Ben, you are employed by one of the local affiliates that's really going to get a financial windfall from these ads as just the way it works. Your thoughts? Okay, I only heard part of the comment from the caller. Well, what was that again, Melissa? You know, he noted that even though we've got a bipartisan field running, all of the candidates will have to seek out Republican donor money in this city to be competitive. Of course. I mean, again, to my point before, it's all about the money. So who's going to raise the most amount of money? Who's going to place the ads? And whether it's my TV station or other TV stations in Jacksonville, you're going to see ad after ad after ad. Sometimes you'll see the same exact ad in the same commercial break. And they'll sometimes place the ads right before the break, in the break right before it comes back to the news or in the spot right after you go to break. So the areas where they're viewed the most, right? Sort of on the shoulder of the news broadcast. So there's no doubt it's going to happen. And back to what we talked about before, when people say they don't like negative ads, well, if they didn't like negative ads, then there wouldn't be negative ads. And because our negative ads, clearly they have some sort of influence, whether it's people in there, it goes towards like an echo chamber effect where it reinforces what they think or it actually flips people with a different story, but they have an impact. Yeah, they do. Absolutely right. Nikisha Williams, you're also a former local TV news employee. Television works. There's a power to the visual medium that is undeniable. There absolutely is. I think one of the things I learned in undergrad when we were talking about the power of television is the election between John F. Kennedy and was it Richard Nixon? And those who listened on the radio thought Nixon won the debate and then those who watched on television thought Kennedy won the debate. And that was like one of the first distinctive instances of the power of a visual medium in local politics. So when all these ad dollars come pouring in, there's no doubt going to infect viewers and even listeners, because there will be radio ads played as well, but it will definitely infect viewers in how they perceive the candidates, how they perceive the issues, how they perceive some of the larger culture work classes that we've seen bubble up because of the January 6th commission and some of the other things that are happening in our state and what candidates say or have approved said in their ads about what they support. Like I've been seeing a lot of the Val Deming's Senate ad running and talking about, you know, she's a former police chief and so she's calling defunding the police crazy as a way to appeal to a more conservative or moderate base, even though she's a Democrat. So with all of that noise in the background, it can't help but get into the voters' psyche and they begin to believe what they're hearing and what they're being told without further investigation because it's easy. And so that has, it can have a negative effect on the information that the electorate has when going into the ballot, going into the voting booth in August for primaries and in March for the general election for the mayoral race. With all of that said, it's up to voters to really take what they're being told and to explore that and to excavate that for themselves and to do their own research and their own digging about what candidates really stand for, what that means, and when they're just being sold propaganda. And that cannot be stressed enough. You cannot just rely on an ad and say, I'm gonna vote for that person because I like what they said on television. People say a lot of things on television, as we know. As we know. Yes, they do. And they say a lot on the radio. By the way, it's 5492937. If you wanna do that, talk on the radio with us. And as we continue to take calls, we have a mayoral candidate listening in who has decided to call in. It's Donna Deegan. Donna Deegan, good morning, how are you? Good morning, Melissa, as I've heard you talk, I keep talking back to my radio so I figure I might as well call and answer some of the questions you had. The poll that we did was not a push-pull. It was actually, it was done as a plus one D, which is really actually less than what the democratic representation is was based on turnout numbers. But there was no push in the poll. It was just a straight poll. Okay, that's one thing. Thank you for that. And you know, let me be clear. We've already had Leanna Cumber, candidate on the show. We've had you on the show. We've put out requests to the other major candidates running and hope to have them all on this show. So let me please explain that to everyone. That said, go ahead. Can I ask you, can I say one other thing about the fundraising? Because this is sort of a store point for me. Look, I realized there has been astronomical amounts of money that have been raised by some candidates in this race. But to say that I have not raised any money and having raised, we had our best month of fundraising raised over $125,000 in June, which the report will come out soon on that. But at the end of the day, we're raising that with hundreds of contributors all the time. So this is not a handful of big dollar contributors. I mean, we certainly have our share of folks who give generously, but at the end of the day, my campaign is powered by small dollar donors and hundreds of thousands of them, not hundreds of thousands, but hundreds of them a month, basically is what happens. So I think you have to look at that as you're looking at all this big money that's coming in. I don't think having raised over $600,000 is nothing. We got a long way to go here. Are we gonna raise as much as Daniel Davis? Uh-uh, we're not. And we said that since the very beginning. But I would rather have the community invested in this campaign with everything else that we have going on than to have a handful of people of influence who contribute large amounts of money. I'd much rather have that, whether I'm right about that or not, we'll find out. But I just think the narrative on that is something that at the very least should be discussed as opposed to just the finite dollar amount. That's my opinion. And the narrative of your campaign is, as you say, a people-powered campaign rather than one financed by a few donors in the shadows who've typically controlled elections in this city. Your message is the city needs change. What would you change? Well, there's a lot of things I would change. In fact, since we're talking about numbers from the poll, 61% of the people who were polled said that we need a change in direction from the Curry administration. And that's a pretty big number to me. And I think that says a lot about what you're seeing in the polls. We're seeing a lot of folks that are saying that they like the fact that I have not been a career politician. And so I think one of the things that is absolutely going to change and already what we are doing is getting out into the community, practically every day, all over the city, listening to people and talking to people about the plan, not only to have a more transparent and open government, but to focus on those things that we have been kicking the can down the road on for years and years, like our infrastructure, like our dismal health numbers in this city given the wonderful healthcare we have, like our economy, that as you noted at the very beginning, huge toward a handful of folks instead of opening up to everybody that really deserves an opportunity to thrive and have a good quality of life in this city. So I think that all of those things, all of those messages, all of those conversations are resonating with people and that's what you're seeing in the polling in addition to obviously the fact that people do know me. Name recognition is important. So, you know, Donna Deegan, you say that you'll change this city and that people want to change from the current administration. How much will you campaign on and we're going to talk about this in a minute, the JIA scandal, which has cast a shadow over the current administration? Look, I don't, you know me and you've done me a long time, Melissa and I am a person who likes to focus on the positive. I like to focus on what I'm going to do more than what other people haven't done. And I think it's very important to send the message of what we're going to do. At the end of the day, though, people do tell us they're concerned about transparency and I think that it's not just the JIA. It is a culture of secrecy, a culture of my way or the highway, sort of a bullying. We're going to do it my way and I'll tell you about it when I'm ready to tell you about it and we're going to push it through in any way that we can. I think that's really more, it's the overall feeling of a lack of transparency and a lack of accessibility for people, whether it's the city's dismal outdated website or whether it's the way we conduct our comments that are at our city council meetings or whatever it is, we need to open this government up to people so that they have an opportunity to participate. And when people have an opportunity to participate, then it's not so much distrust because people are part of the process. The cities that are ahead of us, like Tampa and Greenville and others, they have opened up their government to their people and that is something that we will talk a lot about, not so much about particular scandals, hopefully, but about lack of bringing people into the process. That's what people want in the city. We have great people. They just want to participate. I mentioned a minute ago that in a runoff election, it is likely, although not guaranteed, that we'll see a Democrat and a Republican in the runoff for voters to choose. Republicans typically come home in those kinds of elections. What's your message to Republicans who might be inclined to vote for an opponent if you are in the runoff?  I became a Democrat pretty late in life, to be honest, and those are my values for certain. But at the end of the day, I have always seen, as a journalist and as everything that I've done in my life, the value of bringing everybody into the conversation and making sure that everybody has a voice. I know that's not always popular because people get very entrenched in their own views, but I don't think you can bring this community together by saying my way or the highway. I think you have to bring everybody in and have a win for everybody. I don't want those folks who are, you know, we talk a lot about the Good Old Boy Network. I'm not trying to make sure those folks do worse. What I'm telling them is, you're gonna do even better if we bring more people into this economy. And that's a message that I think will resonate if we can show people the data, show people how we're gonna do it and make sure they understand that we really are in this for everybody in Jacksonville. I want to be a mayor for everybody and that's not just a slogan for me. That is everybody. And I wanna, that's how I run my administration. I have no interest in any more division in this city. We gotta bring everybody in. Question for you from Ben Becker at Action News Jacks. Ben, go ahead. Hi, Donna. I've spoken with sources along the way. May tell me, one of the reasons that Audrey Gibson got into the race is because she was almost encouraged to do it because there were concerns about your fundraising. What is your level of concern with Audrey in the race? What is your level of concern for Audrey? Go ahead. Yeah, I hear him. I welcome Audrey to the race. Look, I've always said this is a contest of ideas. This should be about a community conversation. Whoever resonates most with the community and whoever has the best ideas, let's leave this city in a positive way. I have no way of knowing anything about why Audrey decided to get into this race. I will tell you that I met with everybody that I could think of on the Democratic side before I decided to get in. I met with her in addition to many other people over a year ago, and at that time, she did not seem to have much interest in this race. But she did tell me, look, Donna, I can't rule anything out, so at that point, I think she was looking at her options, and I think she's decided this is the best option for her, so I have no argument with that. I want to thank you for calling in, and again, we will work to get all of the candidates on before the election. Donna Deegan, thanks for your time. Melissa, thanks for having me, have a great day. You just never know who's gonna call into this show, guys. Love it. And we love it. Now, let me, you know what, we have other stories you want to talk about, but you know what, let me get the rest of the panel on that conversation, Nikisha Williams. I think it was great that Donna called in to correct the record on her fundraising and talk about why she's getting into the race to speak directly to the people, although saying that this needs to be a city that needs to be more open and one that needs to have more public participation, I don't disagree with that statement, but I don't know how sincere it can be in talking about transparency, and we've seen in past administrations from both the mayor's office and Eden from JSO talking about being committed to transparency, being committed to opening up the government, being a government for the people where they will be open to scrutiny and all of these other things. And yet we are at a point where it's more closed, it's more secretive, and we only find things out when indictments come out. So on that conversation and taking away from that point, I just hope she's sincere in her remarks about really opening up the government and making it one for the people where everyone has a voice and has accessibility, but I mean, we'll see. Rayman Troncoso, we'll still effort to get Ray. You know what guys, continue to weigh in, but I wanna make note of one other story from the week actually too. We talked for a minute about JEA, attorneys representing the former CEO and CFO told a US district judge this week, they want to throw out the grand jury indictment against the two men over the JEA scandal. Both men have pleaded not guilty. We'll see what the judge decides on that. And let's talk about the mayor, the current mayor and the Jacks Beach mayor and other dignitaries came out this week for the grand reopening of the Jacksonville Beach Pier. Curiously, sheriff candidate TK Waters, the leading Republican in the race was on hand for the pier reopening and he took questions about his residency, let's listen. Just one quick question. I'll answer one question. Yes, sir. There were some questions about your Duvall County address. Can you speak to those that legally live in Duvall? I live in Jacksonville, Florida. Oh, Jacksonville, okay, gotcha. You were up there, how were you involved in the pier project? One question. I live in Jacksonville, Florida. Dan Scanlon of the Times Union, we learned that TK Waters was apparently living nearly rent free in a city park until recently. What's up with this? That I do not know, but I did talk yesterday to TK's campaign PR person who did emphatically state he lives in Duvall County, because that was my one question. He was offering an interview possibility, but we do have all candidates supposedly coming on the 20th to the Istanbul Center for a sheriff's candidates forum, which would be the first time I believe they're all together, all five of them now, since we did lose Matt Nemeth, who decided to stop running. So the fact that Sheriff Williams was living for a year plus out of County has obviously changed the face of this race across the board. We now have a race in six weeks to elect a sheriff for a short period of time, then they all have to run again and who knows who's gonna come out of the woodwork on that one. And I'm sure all of them are making sure that they have at least some place where they put their head every night in Duvall County. We'll follow that. You're gonna be voting for a new mayor and a new sheriff, folks. We'll continue to educate you about the candidates on this show. But before we wrap it up, it's time to round up some stories you might have missed from the week. Yes, it's our Friday lightning round. And of course I grabbed this one. I'm sorry guys, I couldn't resist. This viral video showed neighbors in Jacksonville arguing after a man was accused of killing his neighbors or injuring or killing his neighbors rooster. Listen. Chickens are down every day, people at churches, Popeyes and Kentucky fried chicken, really. Okay, Ben Becker, this gave me such joy. Everyone who hasn't seen it has to go take a look. Only in Duvall do we see these kinds of interactions. Yes, we could be proud of the face we put out to the rest of the world after that video. Anybody else have thoughts on the chicken police before we move on? I'm sure that comment ruffled some feathers out there. Yeah. Okay, what else is on your mind, everybody? Dan Scanlon. Sadly, yesterday there was a man 22 years old who did plead guilty to the savage beating of an Atlantic Beach Police officer. But it was a plea agreement that that now ex-officer with 30 years under his badge, no longer an officer, agreed to and very, very meaningful victim statement that he made and he forgave his attacker. Wow, thank you for that. Nikesha Williams. I'm gonna be a little self-serving here. I'm gonna be at the Jacksonville Library next week for LitChat, so if you wanna come hang out, come hang out. It's at the Highlands Regional Library on Thursday. Yeah, you are a published author. Let's make sure people know that. Thank you and have fun with that. Thank you. Raymond Troncosso, what's on your mind? I wanna check out the new pier on Jacksonville Beach while it's still free and open to pedestrians from seven a.m. to seven p.m. every day. I think they did a good job with it. Let's hope it lasts a long time before the next hurricane. Yeah, for sure. Let's hope and Ben Becker, how about you? Well, Jag's training camp about three weeks away. Be ready, five wins or more. Hope Springs Eternal for this fan base, I think it's fair to say. So yeah, lots happening across the region and I wanna thank you all so much, as always, for being with us on Friday.  So thank you so much. Dan Scanlon, Nikisha Williams, Ben Becker and Raymond Troncosso are Friday For Some this week. Have a great weekend, everybody and thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for watching.


From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here in theCUBE's Palo Alto Studios. During the COVID crisis, we're quarantined with our crew, but we've got the remote interviews. Got two great guests here from Fortinet, FortiGuard Labs. Derek Mankey, Chief Security Insights and Global Threat Alliances at FortiGuard Labs and Amar Lakhani, who's the lead researcher at FortiGuard Labs. Guys, great to see you. Derek, good to see you again. Amar, thank you for being with me too. Hey, it's been a while and it happens so fast. It just seems our stay was just the other day. Derek, we've done a couple of interviews in between. A lot of flow coming out of Fortinet, FortiGuard, a lot of action, certainly with COVID. Everyone's pulled back home. The bad actors taking advantage of the situation. The surface area's increased really is the perfect storm for security in terms of action. Bad actors are at all time high. New threats is going on. Take us through what you guys are doing. What's your team makeup look like? What are some of the roles and you guys are seeing on your team and how does that transcend to the market? Yeah, sure, absolutely. So you're right. I mean, like I was saying earlier, this always happens fast and furious. We couldn't do this without a world-class team at FortiGuard Labs. So we've grown our team now to over 235 globally. There's different roles within the team. If we look 20 years ago, the roles used to be just very pigeonholed into say antivirus analysis, right? But now we have to account for it. When we're looking at threats, we have to look at that growing attack surface. We have to look at where are these threats coming from? How frequently are they hitting? What verticals are they hitting? What regions? What are the particular techniques, tactics, procedures? So we have threat, this is the world of threat intelligence, of course, contextualizing that information. And it takes different skill sets on the back end. And a lot of people don't really realize the behind the scenes, what's happening. And there's a lot of magic happening, not only from what we talked about before in our last conversation from artificial intelligence and machine learning that we do at FortiGuard Labs and automation, but the people. And so today we want to focus on the people and talk about how on the back ends we approach a particular threat. We're going to talk to the world of ransom and ransomware and look at how we dissect threats, how we correlate that, how we use tools in terms of threat hunting as an example, and then how we actually take that to that last mile and make it actionable so that customers are protected, how we share that information with key threat and tele-sharing partners. But again, it comes down to the people. We never have enough people in the industry. There's a big shortage as we know, but it's a really key critical element. And we've been building these training programs for over a decade with FortiGuard Labs. So this to me is exactly why I always say, and I'm sure Mark can share this too, that there's never a dull day in the office. I know we hear that all the time, but I think today all the viewers will really get an idea of why that is because it's very dynamic and on the back end, there's a lot of things that we're doing to get our hands dirty with this. You know, the old expression in startup plan, Silicon Valley, is if you're in the arena, that's where the action is and it's different than sitting in the stands watching the game. You guys are certainly in that arena. And we've talked and we cover your threat report that comes out frequently. But for the folks that aren't in the weeds on all the nuances of security, can you kind of give the 101 ransomware? What's going on? What's the state of the ransomware situation? Set the stage, because that still continues to be threat. I don't go a week, but I don't read a story about another ransomware and then it leaks out, yeah, they paid 10 million in Bitcoin or something. Like, I mean, this is real, that's a real ongoing threat. What is it? I mean, Bitcoin's quite a bit, but yeah. Yeah. So I'll give sort of the 101 and then maybe we can pass it to Amar, who's on the front lines dealing with this every day. If we look at the world of, I mean, first of all, the concept of ransom, obviously with people that has gone extended way, way before cybersecurity, right? In the world of physical crime. So of course, the world's first ransom where a virus is actually called PC Cyborg. This was in 1989. The ransom payment was demanded through a peel box from, I believe it was Panama City at the time, not too effective on floppy disks, very small audience, not a big attack surface. Didn't hear much about it for years. Really it was around 2010, we started to see ransomware becoming prolific. And what they did was, what cyber criminals did was shift on success from a fake anti-virus software model, which was popping up a whole bunch of, said your computer is infected with 50 or 60 viruses. Pay us, we'll give you an anti-virus solution, which was of course fake. People started catching on, the gig was up, people caught on to that. So they weren't making a lot of money selling this fraudulent software. Enter ransomware. And this is where ransomware really started to take hold because it wasn't optional to pay for the software. It was mandatory almost for a lot of people because they were losing their data. They couldn't reverse engineer the encryption. Couldn't decrypt it with any universal tool. Ransomware today is very rigid. We just released our threat report for the first half of 2020. And we've seen things like master boot record, MBR ransomware, this is persistent. It sits before your operating system when you boot up your computer. So it's hard to get rid of. Very strong public private key cryptography that's being, so each victim is infected with the different keys, an example. The list goes on and I'll save that for the demo today. But that's basically, it's prolific. And we're seeing not only just ransomware attacks for data, we're now starting to see ransom for extortion, for targeted ransom cases that are going after critical business, essentially it's like a DOS holding revenue streams for ransom too. So the ransom demands are getting higher because of this as well, so it's complicated. Yeah, and I was mentioning, Amar, I want to weigh in, I mean, 10 million is a lot. We reported early in this month, Garmin was the company that was hacked. IT got completely locked down. They pay 10 million. Garmin makes all those devices and as we know, this is impact and that's real numbers.  Can you explain how it all works before we go to the demo? You know, you're absolutely right. It is a big number and a lot of organizations are willing to pay that number to get their data back. Essentially, their organization, their business is at a complete standstill when they don't pay, all their files are inaccessible to them. Ransomware in general, what it does in it from a very basic overview is it basically makes your files not available to you. They're encrypted, they have essentially a passcode on them that you have to have the correct passcode to decode them. A lot of times that's in a form of a program or actually a physical password you have to type in, but you don't get that access to get your files back unless you pay the ransom. A lot of corporations these days, they are not only paying the ransom, they're actually negotiating with the criminals as well. They're trying to say, oh, you want 10 million, how about four million? Sometimes that goes on as well, but it's something that organizations know that if they don't have the proper backups and the hackers are getting smart, they're trying to go after the backups as well. They're trying to go after your duplicate files. So sometimes you don't have a choice and organizations will pay the ransom. And it's, you know, they're smart. It's a business. They know the probability of buy versus build or pay versus rebuild. So they kind of know where to attack. They know that the tactics, the name is vulnerable. It's not like just some kitty script thing going on. This is real systrophisticated stuff and it's highly targeted. Can you talk about some use cases there what goes on with that kind of attack? Absolutely. The cyber criminals are doing reconnaissance. They're trying to find out as much as they can about their victims. And what happens is they're trying to make sure that they can motivate their victims in the fastest way possible to pay the ransom as well. So there's a lot of attacks going on. What we're usually finding now is ransomware is sometimes the last stage of an attack. So an attacker may go into an organization. They may already be taking data out of that organization. They may be stealing customer data, PII, which is personal identifiable information, such as social security numbers or driver's licenses or credit card information. Once they've done their entire attack, once they've gone everything they can, a lot of times their end stage, their last attack is ransomware and they encrypt all the files on the system and try and motivate the victim to pay as fast as possible and as much as possible as well. You know, it's interesting. I was talking to my buddy the other day. It's like casing the joint. They check it out. They do their recon reconnaissance. They go in and identify what's the best move to make, how to extract the most out of the victim, in this case, the target.  You know, why don't we have the right to bear our own arms? Why can't we fight back? I mean, at the end of the day, Derek, this is like, who's protecting me? I mean, do I have to protect my own, build my own army or does the government help us? I mean, at some point, I got to write to bear my own arms here, right? I mean, this is the whole security paradigm. Yeah, so, I mean, there's a couple of things, right? So first of all, this is exactly why we do a lot of it. I was mentioning the skill shortage in cyber security professionals as an example. This is why we do a lot of the heavy lifting on the back end, obviously, from a defensive standpoint. You obviously have the red team, blue team aspect. How do you first, you know, there's ways to fight back by being defensive as well, too. And also by, you know, in the world of threat intelligence, one of the ways that we're fighting back is not necessarily by going and hacking the bad guys because that's illegal in jurisdictions, right? But how we can actually find out who these people are, hit them where it hurts, freeze assets, go after money laundering networks, follow the cash transactions where it's happening. This is where we actually work with key law enforcement partners, such as Interpol as an example. This is the world of threat intelligence. This is why we're doing a lot of that intelligence work on the back end. So there's other ways to actually go on the offense without necessarily weaponizing it, per se, right? Like using, you know, bearing your own arms, as you said. There's different forms that people may not be aware of with that, and that actually gets into the world of, you know, if you see attacks happening on your system, how you can use security tools and collaborate with threat intelligence. Yeah, I think that's the key. I think the key is these new sharing technologies around collective intelligence is gonna be a great way to kind of have more of an offensive collective strike. But I think fortifying the defense is critical. I mean, that's, there's no other way to do that. Absolutely.  Our goal is always to make it more expensive for the cyber criminals to operate. And there's many ways to do that, right? You can be a pain to them by having a very rigid, hardened defense.  If it's too much effort on their end, they're going to go knocking somewhere else.  So ripping infrastructure offline that cripples them. Yeah, it's whack-a-mole. They're going to set up somewhere else, but then also going after people themselves. Again, the cash networks, these sorts of things. So it's sort of a holistic approach between anything. Hey, it's an arms race, better AI, better cloud scale, always helps, you know, it's a ratchet game. Okay, Amar, I want to get into this video. It's a ransomware four-minute video. I'd like you to take us through, as you lead, you're the lead researcher. Take us through this video and explain what we're looking at. Let's roll the video. All right, sure. So what we have here is we have the victim's desktop over here. We have a couple of things on this victim's desktop. We have a batch file, which is essentially going to run the ransomware. We have the payload, which is the code behind the ransomware. And then we have files in this folder, and this is where you would typically find user files. In a real-world case, this would be like your Microsoft Word documents or your PowerPoint presentations over here. We just have a couple of text files that we've set up. We're going to go ahead and run the ransomware. And sometimes attackers, what they do is they disguise this, like they make it look like an important Word document.  And in this case, the ransom message says your files are encrypted. Please pay this money to this Bitcoin address. That obviously is not a real Bitcoin address. Usually they look a little more complicated, but this is our fake Bitcoin address. But you'll see that the files now are encrypted. You cannot access them. They've been changed. And unless you pay the ransom, you don't get the files. Now, as researchers, we see files like this all the time. We see ransomware all the time. So we use a variety of tools, internal tools, custom tools, as well as open source tools. And what you're seeing here is an open source tool. It's called the Cuckoo Sandbox. And it shows us the behavior of the ransomware, what exactly is a ransomware doing? In this case, you can see just clicking on that file launched a couple of different things. It launched basically a command executable, a PowerShell, it launched our Windows shell, and then it did things on the file. It basically had registry keys, it had network connections, it changed the disk. So this kind of gives us a behind-the-scenes look at all the processes that's happening on the ransomware. And just that one file itself, like I said, does multiple different things. Now, what we want to do as researchers, we want to categorize this ransomware into families. We want to try and determine the actors behind that. So we dump everything we know in the ransomware in these central databases, and then we mine these databases. What we're doing here is we're actually using another tool called Maltigo and use custom tools as well as commercial and open source tools. But this is a open source and commercial tool. But what we're doing is we're basically taking the ransomware and we're asking Maltigo to look through our database and say, like, do you see any like files or do you see any types of incidences that have similar characteristics? Because what we want to do is we want to see the relationship between this one ransomware and anything else we may have in our system because that helps us identify maybe where the ransomware is connecting to, where it's going to other processes that it may be doing. In this case, we can see multiple IP addresses that are connected to it. So we can possibly see multiple infections. We can block different external websites if we can identify a command and control system. We can categorize this to a family. And sometimes we can even categorize this to a threat actor that has claimed responsibility for it. So it's essentially visualizing all the connections and the relationship between one file and everything else we have in our database in this example. Of course, I've put this in multiple ways. We can save these as reports as PDF type reports or usually HTML or other searchable data that we have back in our systems. And then the cool thing about this is this is available to all our products, all our researchers, all our specialty teams. So when we're researching botnets, when we're researching file-based attacks, when we're researching IP reputation, we have a lot of different IOCs or indicators of compromise that we can correlate where attacks go through and maybe even detect new types of attacks as well. So the bottom line is you got the tools using combination of open source and commercial products to look at the patterns of all ransomware across your observation space. Is that right? Exactly, I showed you like a very simple demo. It's not only open source and commercial, but a lot of it is our own custom developed products as well. And when we find something that works, that logic, that technique, we make sure it's built into our own products as well. So our own customers have the ability to detect the same type of threats that we're detecting as well. At Fortegaard Labs, the intelligence that we acquire, that product, that product of intelligence, it's consumed directly by our products. So take me through what's actually going on, what it means for the customer. So Fortegaard Labs, you're looking at all the ransomware, you're seeing the patterns. Are you guys proactively looking? Is it, you guys are researching? You look at something, pops in the radar. I mean, take us through what is, what goes on and then how does that translate into a customer notification or impact? So yeah, John, if you look at a typical life cycle of these attacks, there's always proactive and reactive. That's just the way it is in the industry, right? So of course, we try to be as proactive as possible. We look through some of the solutions we talked about before. And if you look at an incoming threat, first of all, you need visibility. You can't protect or analyze anything that you can't see. So you got to get your hands on visibility. We call these IOCs, indicators of compromise. So this is usually something like an actual executable file, like the virus or the malware itself. It could be other things that are related to it, like websites that could be hosting the malware as an example. So once we have that seed, we call it a seed, we can do threat hunting from there. So we can analyze that, right? If it's a piece of malware or a botnet, we can do analysis on that and discover more malicious things that this is doing. Then we go investigate those malicious things. And we really, you know, it's similar to the world of CSI, right? These different dots that they're connecting, we're doing that at hyperscale. And we use that through these tools that Amar was talking about. So it's really a life cycle of getting, you know, the malware incoming, seeing it first, analyzing it, and then doing action on that, right? So sort of a three-step process. And the action comes down to what Amar was saying, waterfalling that to our customers so that they're protected. But then in tandem with that, we're also going further and sharing it if applicable to say law enforcement partners, other threat intel sharing partners too. And it's not just humans doing that, right? So the proactive piece, again, this is where it comes to artificial intelligence, machine learning. There's a lot of cases where we're automatically doing that analysis without humans. So we have AI systems that are analyzing and actually creating protection on its own too. So it's quite interesting that way. It's just at the end of the day, you want to protect your customers. And so this renders out, if I'm a for-to-net customer across the portfolio, the goal here is to protect them from ransomware, right? That's the end of the game. Yeah, and that's a very important thing when you start talking these big dollar amounts that we were talking earlier when it comes to the damages that are done from asthma attacks. Yeah, I mean, not only is it good insurance, it's just good to have that fortification. All right, so Derek, I got to ask you about the term the last mile because before we came on camera, I'm a bandwidth junkie, I always want more bandwidth. So the last mile used to be a term for last mile to the home where there was telephone lines, now it's fiber and Wi-Fi. But what does that mean to you guys in security? Does that mean something specific? Yeah, absolutely. The easiest way to describe that is actionable, right? So one of the challenges in the industry is we live in a very noisy industry when it comes to cyber security. What I mean by that is because of that growing attack surface, and you have these different attack vectors. You have attacks not only coming in from email, but websites from DOS attacks. There's a lot of volume that's just gonna continue to grow is the world of 5G and OT. So what ends up happening is when you look at a lot of security operations centers for customers as an example, there are, it's very noisy. It's, you can guarantee almost every day you're gonna see some sort of probe, some sort of attack activity that's happening. And so what that means is you get a lot of detection events, a lot of logs. And when you have this worldwide shortage of security professionals, you don't have enough people to process those logs and actually start to say, hey, this looks like an attack. I'm gonna go investigate it and block it. So this is where the last mile comes in because a lot of the times that these logs, they light up like Christmas, right? I mean, there's a lot of events that are happening. How do you prioritize that? How do you automatically add action? Because the reality is if it's just humans doing it, that last mile is often going back to your bandwidth terms, there's too much latency, right? So how do you reduce that latency? That's where the automation, the AI machine learning comes in to solve that last mile problem, to automatically add that protection. It's especially important because you have to be quicker than the attacker. It's an arms race, like you said, right? I think what you guys do with ForteGuard Labs is super important, not only for the industry, but for society at large, as you have kind of all this shadow, cloak and digger kind of attack systems, whether it's national security, international, or just for mafia's and racketeering and the bad guys. Can you guys take a minute and explain the role of ForteGuard specifically and why you guys exist?  You bolt onto Fortinet, that trickles down into the products, that's all good for the customers, I get that. But there's more to ForteGuard than just that. Can you guys talk about this trend in the security business? Because it's very clear that there's a collective sharing culture developing rapidly for societal benefit. Can you take a minute to explain that? Yeah, sure. I'll give my thoughts to Marty, and add some dollars to that too. From my point of view, there's various functions. So we've just talked about that last mile problem, that's the commercial aspect we create through ForteGuard Labs, ForteGuard services that are dynamic and updated to security products because you need intelligence products to be able to protect against intelligent attacks. That's just a defense. Again, going back to how can we take that further? I mean, we're not law enforcement ourselves. We know a lot about the bad guys and the actors because of the intelligence work that we do. But we can't go in and prosecute. We can share knowledge and we can train prosecutors. This is a big challenge in the industry. A lot of prosecutors don't know how to take cybersecurity courses to court. And because of that, a lot of these cyber criminals reign free. And that's been a big challenge in the industry. So this has been close to my heart. Over 10 years, I've been building a lot of these key relationships between private public sector as an example, but also private sector. Things like Cyber Threat Alliance. We're a founding member of the Cyber Threat Alliance. We have over 28 members in that alliance. And it's about sharing intelligence to level that playing field because attackers roam freely. What I mean by that is there's no jurisdictions for them. Cyber crime has no borders. They can do a million things wrong and they don't care. We do a million things right. One thing wrong and it's a challenge. So there's this big collaboration that's a big part of ForteGuard. So what I exist to is to make the industry better to work on protocols and automation and really fight this together. Well remaining competitors. I mean, we have competitors out there, of course. And so it comes down to that last mile problem, John, is like we can share intelligence within the industry but it's only intelligence is just intelligence. How do you make it useful and actionable? That's where it comes down to technology integration. Omar, what's your take on this societal benefit? Because I've been saying since the Sony hack years ago that when you have nation states, if they put troops on our soil, the government would respond. But yet virtually they're here and the private sectors defend for themselves. There's no support. So I think this private public partnership thing is very relevant. I think it's the ground zero of the future build out of policy because we pay for freedom. Why don't we have cyber freedom if we're going to run a business? Where's our help from the government? We pay taxes. So again, if a military showed up, you're not going to see companies fighting the foreign enemy, right? So again, this is a whole new change over. What's your thought? It really is. You have to remember that cyber attacks puts everyone on an even playing field, right? I mean, you now don't have to have a country that has invested a lot in weapons development or nuclear weapons or anything like that, right? Anyone can basically come up to speed on cyber weapons as long as they have an internet connection. So it evens the playing field, which makes it dangerous, I guess, for our enemies. But absolutely, I think a lot of us, from a personal standpoint, a lot of us have seen, researchers have seen, organizations fail through cyber attacks. We've seen the frustration. We've seen, besides organization, we've seen people just like grandmas lose their pictures of their other loved ones because they've been attacked by ransomware. I think we take it very personally when innocent people get attacked and we make it our mission to make sure we can do everything we can to protect them. But I will add that, at least here in the US, the federal government actually has a lot of partnerships and a lot of programs to help organizations with cyber attacks. The US cert is always continuously updating organizations about the latest attacks in regard as another organization run by the FBI and a lot of companies like Fortinet and even a lot of other security companies participate in these organizations so everyone can come up to speed and everyone can share information so we all have a fighting chance. It's a whole new wave of paradigm.  Derek, always great to see you, Mark, great to meet you remotely, looking forward to meeting in person when the world comes back to normal. As usual, thanks for the great insights. Appreciate it. All right, thanks, John. It's a pleasure, as always. Okay, CUBE Conversation here. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Great insightful conversation around security, ransomware with a great demo. Check it out from Derek NMR from Fortinet Guard Labs. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching.