Welcome to Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. I'm Kilii Akina. Hawaii is many things to many people. It's a beautiful landscape. As you see behind me are the Molokai cliffs. It's a lovely sky, the wonderful sea, and the great people. But it's also an economy. What is an economy? Without an economy, we wouldn't work. We wouldn't function. We wouldn't survive. We wouldn't be sustainable. Today it's my delight to have an old friend who's been an economist for 51 years. 41 of those at the University of Hawaii as he shares and ruminates upon his reflections over the relationship between government and the economy and a great many other questions. His name is Professor James Romasat. He's a professor emeritus, retired from the University of Hawaii. Please welcome him to my program today. Jim, good to have you. Thanks for coming down to the studio. Thanks for having me, Kilii, on Think Tech Hawaii. That's right. Well, one of the things we like to do on Think Tech Hawaii as we do at the Grassroot Institute is just talk with people who know a bit more than I know. And that's a lot of people. But in your case, you know a lot about economics. I remember when I was starting off as a freshman at Northwestern University, I took my first economics course, and it was just simplified with the amount of knowledge that is needed to understand what we call the economy. So let me just right at the outset ask you what is economics? Well, to me, economics is a method for designing and evaluating public policy. It does that by having a system for understanding how producers behave, consumers behave, the system behaves with those together. And that allows us to evaluate consequences of different types of policy and how they would affect public welfare. So we've got this big system that involves producers of economic product. We've got consumers who have them. And we understand how it all works together through this process called economics. Now, you said public policy. When you talk about it concerning public policy, what kinds of policies are we talking about? So what does the government do? What does the government spend its money on? Does it get its money through taxes or deficit finance or floating bonds? And all the regulations that a government might make, do they improve their welfare or not? So this system, this economy, if you will, regulates how products get distributed. And there's some level of scarcity. The government tells us how they get distributed amongst ends that compete with each other. Is that right? That's the conventional definition. In my end, as your professor Robert Eisner told you, that's exactly right. In my view, I'd like to bring out the emphasis on public policy. Ever since Adam Smith, that's been the primary focus in my opinion. So when we talk about public policy, we're obviously to some extent talking about how involved the government should be in this system called the economy. And there are some people who think that the government should be involved in a very big way, like a caretaker or like a parent, caring for the people who are working in the economy. And then there are other people who think that the government should be involved in a very small way. In fact, in as limited a way as possible and get out of the way for the most part, which system tends to work better when government's involved in a very big, big way or when government is minimally involved? Well, the fundamental insight of Adam Smith was that when producers and consumers pursue their own interests, the system works out very well.  You said Adam Smith was a big name in economics, the author of The Wealth of Nations, the textbook of textbooks, says that there's something called self-interest. Now I'm looking back now from the beginning of the 21st century American culture, self-interest has gotten a very bad name. When people think of self-interest and the free market or the markets that Adam Smith talked about, they tend to think of Gordon Gekko or maybe Wall Street, that there's this greed that drives the market. How is it that self-interest has gotten a bad name and explain how Adam Smith actually was meant to self-interest? Well, Adam Smith was talking about the self-interest of producers, producing what people want because that's what they're going to pay for. And consumers, of course, buying at the lowest price they can but there's competition among producers. And that system works out.  Now I wouldn't go as far as saying like Gordon Gekko agreed is good. A lot of times greed is bad, especially when business interests ally with government elites and make rules or policies that enrich a small group at the expense of the general public. It can get a little bit imbalanced. Yes, and it has.  You were introducing this concept of self-interest in the market as being a driving force. Right. Go ahead. But there are some exceptions, the one I mentioned, but also certain things are not in the market, such as pollution. The government has a very legitimate role in imposing costs on producers who are imposing costs on us via the pollution. They can do it by pollution taxes or other regulations. So you're describing government as playing a referee role, that when the rules get broken or the plane gets out of hand that they come in and intervene. What are you talking about? They're a referee, that's a big part of it, and also they can in effect change the prices. Instead of taking the market prices as given, they can say well this price of this polluting product is too low. I can raise the price by putting a tax on that product or by putting a tax on the emissions themselves. And of course infrastructure, to the extent the private sector is not motivated to provide roads and bridges and other kinds of infrastructure than the government can facilitate if not provide directly. Well I can see what you mean in terms of Adam Smith. The government may need to intervene to correct a malfunction in the market such as the creation of pollution to impose some rules and punish the bad players, so to speak. But what happens when government goes beyond that? When government uses that power to play a much bigger, bigger role in the market to determine prices beyond the need to regulate bad things like pollution? Sure, so there's a misunderstanding of sustainability I think in Hawaii and elsewhere to the extent that people think it means fix the environment at all costs. So if you impose a rule of 100% renewable and the all cost includes granting tax credits and imposing high electricity prices on consumers, that may not be improving their welfare. So that's an example of possibly going too far. In what way would it not improve people's welfare? Well in terms of the higher taxes and higher prices. So we can do renewable but the question is at what cost? Eventually the price of solar and wind are going to come down enough and the cost of storage, battery storage for example are going to come down enough so that indeed it'll make sense to increase the percentage of renewables but should we do that by government committee or should we do that by market? Now you have pointed out that we may not gain all that much by going after 100% renewable that we have a very low amount of pollution in the first place in Hawaii and the benefit we get is not necessarily going to transform the planet. That's right. We produce one-fifth of one percent of all the CO2 emissions on the planet and China is producing about 100 times as much as we are. So if we're to have a global agreement that everybody reduces CO2 that could be a good thing but for one very small economy to try to do it on its own seems a little futile and that's an example of pursuing sustainability by symbolism instead of substance. And as you pointed out we would pay an extremely high cost for doing that. We could pay an extremely high cost. That's a matter for researchers to determine. Now this goes back to our conversation earlier about the role the government should play. By itself the market may not push us into a place where we actually end up with 100% renewable because the market may make the cost to the consumer lower actually but the way we might get to 100% renewables is through government fiat, government control and government enforcement. And what would be the downside of it? Well if we do it by corrected markets that is putting on the correct price on emissions and for Hawaii it's not so much CO2 that's important but more the local pollutants like sulfur and particulates that are produced by coal so that could be a correction and if that were to happen the generation would transition very slowly to renewables. We'll get there. By doing it by mandates and subsidies that's when the consumer is put at risk. Now a lot of times we try to fix the Hawaii economy as if it's in a vacuum without taking a look at factors outside of Hawaii that affect our economy. Many people say that some of those factors outside of Hawaii are even bigger in terms of their impact upon our economy than anything we would do in our state. For example some have said that the tourist markets in Asia may actually have a bigger impact. There are many different things. What do you think is the biggest impact upon the health of the Hawaii economy? The biggest thing we have to worry about right now is the US economy and that's of course been in the news lately and one of the reasons that the stock market is so volatile is because of the uncertainties about trade. Now there's some good news that may materialize. The US is on the threshold of doing a new NAFTA a trade agreement with Mexico and Canada. Mexico has approved it already. Canada will probably approve it and the only holdout is essentially the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi so she is the one reason why this may not pass even though it's fairly good for the US but it's also good for Donald Trump which in politics may be an undesirable. What you're saying is that the health of the US economy the robustness of our national economy and factors that impact it as a trade relationship are actually bigger factors in determining the Hawaii economy than things we do locally. Yeah because even though we're sitting in an island the labor market is still somewhat integrated with the whole economy. So we have these positive things maybe a deal on beef with Europe maybe a deal with Japan on agriculture products and then we're still talking with China but on the other hand we have this trade war with China and we don't know if that's going to be resolved so the forecast of the growth of the US economy 2018 we were growing at 3% this year we'll probably grow at 2.3% and my best guess is we'll be growing at less than 2% by 2020 because of these trade problems and the cooperation that it's built up over my lifetime of 75 years the general agreement on trade and tariffs was signed in 1944 and ever since then there's been an elaborate complex of legal rules and social capital we call it trust reciprocity in supporting the exchange across countries. I'm going to stop you here because we're going to run into a break but what I hear you saying is that the impact of trade is based upon a long-term relationship that involves relationships trust, precedent, law and so forth so what I'm going to ask you when we come back from the break is what's the impact of short-term measures such as threats of tariffs and so forth from our president upon our trade relationship. I'm Kaylee Ikeena with Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together and we'll be right back with the economist James Rowe. Aloha I'm Mellie James host of Let's Mana Up Tuesdays every other Tuesday from 11 to 1130 this show is meant to dive into stories of local product entrepreneurs and how they're growing their companies from right here in Hawaii I'm so thrilled to have our show kicked off and so please join us on Tuesdays at 11 o'clock as we talk to local entrepreneurs and hear their stories. Hey aloha everyone and welcome to the Think Tech Hawaii studio my name is Andrew Lanning I'm the host of Pretty Matters Hawaii we air here every Tuesday at 10 a.m. Hawaii time trying to bring you issues about security that you may not know issues that can protect your family, protect yourself, protect our community, protect our companies, the folks we work with please join us and hope you can maybe get a little different perspective on how to live a little safer. Aloha. Welcome back and thanks for not going away I'm Kaylee Ikeena on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. My guest today Professor James Romasette is giving us some insights into the nature of economic what it is and how it impacts Hawaii. We are talking now a little bit about the health of the Hawaii economy being impacted by the overall robustness of the United States economy in particular we're looking at trade and tariffs and so forth. Jim you're telling us a little bit about the long-term nature of healthy trade relationships that benefit the economy but what's the impact of short-term management of those trade relationships through threats of tariffs and so forth? Yeah so Trump tariffs the first thing we have to understand is they're not meant to be permanent they're meant to be a temporary device to encourage other countries such as China to get to the bargaining table and make a fair and free trade deal. Now that's what his advisors have told us. That's what the advisors say and sometimes Trump also says that. But the risk is when you start using national emergency powers to overcome this 75 years of complex governance of international cooperation you put that at risk that other countries may use similar tactics and we may start unraveling that governance structure. So that's what I'm worried about. We'll see what happens. Do you see Hawaii reacting or Hawaii being impacted in the short run or more so in the long run? I think there's a potential of cascading. So right now inflation is fine but prices may start going up. Certain interests are already being hurt. Agricultural interests obviously. Even though Trump is giving some money to farmers what that does so they produce more soybeans. The price of soybeans still goes down and so they can't really make money in the long run and they're not getting completely subsidized. I should have asked you to bring your crystal ball with you. I don't have my crystal ball today so we don't know how it's going to turn out but there's these risks that we need to be worried about. Janet Yellen, the former head of the Federal Reserve was just saying the other day recession is still unlikely but it's more likely than it used to be. So let's say 25% chance of recession in 2020. You're known for a phrase, the curse of paradise. What do you mean by that? The curse of paradise is based on the idea of resource curse an idea in trade and development economics. Going back to the Dutch when they discovered oil on the North Sea so much of their resources went into oil production that other industries that had more rapid productivity growth suffered. That's what's been noticed all around the world. In Hawaii we had also a curse but I call it curse of paradise. First it was sandalwood then it was the whaling industry then it was sugar and pineapple then it was tourism and when resources flow into those industries then the more productive sectors that offer opportunities especially to young people who want to get a good education and stay in Hawaii then they don't see those opportunities materializing. In other words there has been a historic imbalance in the Hawaii productivity sector whereas we end up with primarily a tiny handful you can count them on one hand of industries that drive the economy. And the other bad part about the curse of paradise is that when those interests become so powerful they begin to affect policies. The most extreme example of that is when the sugar and pineapple planters took over the government and formed the one party Republic of Hawaii before annexation. So we call it rent seeking not a patini opera like my wife thinks but it's special interests getting together with government and changing the rules to get a bigger slice of the pie even though it causes the size of the pie to shrink we call that rent seeking and that's the big danger. We often talk about diversification of the economy being a solution to that problem. What are your thoughts on diversifying wise economy from more than two or three major industries military government tourism? I don't think diversification per se makes that much sense. The important thing is to pursue we call it your comparative advantage relative to other economies but not only now but looking into the future so that we're going to have those productivity gains. So in the case of tourism David McLean our UH president used to say diversify from your strength so ecotourism, health tourism, sports tourism all these things are growth opportunities that would give us a competitive advantage or a comparative advantage. Those are things we could build on and not artificially try to force production in any particular sector. Some say that we should be more self-sufficient for example they look at the fact that the majority of our food is imported shipped in and they look at all the land we have in Hawaii the air and the water we should be growing our own food supplies we're cut off from transportation lines What are your thoughts about this line of reasons? Well that's the dark side of sustainability that if you look at something symbolic whether it's renewable energy or food self-sufficiency and you say regardless of the cost then you're suppressing other parts of the economy and even the environment the nature conservancy has a nice electronic brochure you can find online which says that the value of the coal allows these are non-market values is ten billion dollars and it's vanishing even a PBS special cause of the disappearing Hawaiian forest which means cultural values as well as real resources including the source of our groundwater so that can be fixed with small investments with very high benefit cost ratio and those are the kind of things that government should be facilitating you're growing both the environment and the material part of the economy instead of going to very costly desalination Well when we look at the cost of living in Hawaii the price of paradise, the cost of living and so forth many people suggest that the solution is to help the low wage earner by raising minimum wages forcing businesses to pay a certain rate so that workers are able to afford the high cost of living do you have some thoughts on that? Well I read your column I had some thoughts on it That's one of my thoughts and as you pointed out it acts as a regressive tax because higher cost means higher prices and who pays a higher percentage of their income to poor so it acts as an anti-poor tax but another aspect is that when you artificially go away from the market clearing wage the clear supply and demand there's more people that want to work less employers that want to employ and so that wedge is called unemployment so you're actually creating unemployment not only that but the employers aren't going to choose at random when they ration the limited jobs they're going to choose the ones from good families probably choose minorities less choose poor people less so this is going to be anti-minority, anti-poor and if it has to be done it should be done at the national level if you do it at the state level Maui and Honolulu have considered doing it at the county level then it's going to impact business investment it's very easy for businesses thinking to invest in Hawaii well we have to pay this high minimum wage let's do it somewhere else minimum wage, mandate would be under-productive we're going to close it in just about 45 seconds they're likely to be anti-poor instead of the intention which is pro-poor so a lot of people are moving away from Hawaii we claim to have a high level of brain drain in what way is that correct and what way is that perhaps not correct the way it's not correct is that everybody except for a few states on the west coast and a few in the south I think they have a brain drain so it can't be everybody has a brain drain mobility is a good thing moving back and forth to your best opportunity that's a good thing but it's probably true that in Hawaii a lot of our young people don't see upward mobility it's going to pay off their investment in education they don't see opportunities as much as they should and that's partly because this thing we talked about the curse of paradise smart growth approach to development Jim thank you for your insights appreciate your long career as an educator and an economist thanks very much for having me I enjoyed it you have a great afternoon my guest today James Romaset professor emeritus at the University of Hawaii he's been in the economics department there for 41 years and now he shares his insight I'm Ili Akina president of grassroots institute so next time on think tech Hawaii aloha


and welcome to Health Focus, a production of the Ministry of Health and Wellness. I am Fener Leption. Health Focus is a 15-minute discussion program bringing you in-depth knowledge on different health issues. Today we have with us the medical surveillance officer Dr. Gemma Sherry who will provide us with information on the CAHPS survey. Welcome to the program. Thank you. Right now the world is dealing with the pandemic of COVID-19 and of course for Saint-Saint-Noche, one of the ways of responding to this pandemic is actually the use of the CAHPS survey. Can you tell us what is the CAHPS survey and why the need to undertake the survey? The CAHPS survey is basically a knowledge attitudes and practices survey. When we speak about knowledge we want to know what it is that people know. In terms of attitudes what it is that they believe what their thoughts are and practices what is it that they do with the knowledge that they have gained thus far since the COVID epidemic began. So on March 10, 2020, the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a global pandemic. Since then the ministry has been undertaking a number of activities. We recorded our first confirmed case in March and as a result of that government has had to take a number of measures and most of these measures have actually affected our daily lives as people living in the country. Now for these measures to actually work people need to adhere to these measures. So adherence a lot of it is about gaining knowledge using that knowledge to be able to do things and for persons to understand what is happening. So the CAHPS survey basically it seeks to assess persons knowledge as it pertains to COVID-19. Knowing what people think about COVID-19 the level of knowledge it would help us in terms of our public health our public education campaign. So the Bureau of Health and other agencies have been involved in a number of public health campaigns. So for example you would have seen me showing the public how to put on a surgical mask. There would have been messages about hand washing. There would have been messages about social distancing. There would have been messages in English and in Creole as it put in to curfews and other measures. So we basically want to know if all of that information that has been put out there if people are really if or if it's rather really getting to the persons that it's supposed to get and what people are doing with that information that they've been getting. It would also help us to assess thus far our public health response because there are general questions that would ask certain questions and it would give us responses as to what people think in terms of the response that we've undertaken and whether or not they think that we are capable of winning this war against COVID-19 and it also provides us with some baseline information as it regards to knowledge, attitudes and practices of persons living in St. Lucia during this period of COVID-19 outbreak. Okay and you mentioned in terms of the health efforts but what benefit would you say it would have for the average St. Lucia? Okay participating in the survey has no direct benefits for the persons who participate in the survey but what the benefit is for the country as a whole so for example we can use that information to see to know what information is reaching persons, what persons know as it put in to COVID-19, what people think right in terms of their attitudes, what their thoughts, what their beliefs are and what their practices are and so that can help us strengthen the current response and of course it would help us to safeguard persons living in St. Lucia as it regards COVID-19. Okay and what is the target audience for the survey? Okay so basically we're targeting persons 18 years and older. The survey is actually a web-based survey so given what is happening and all the social distancing measures etc that have been put in place and we did not find it fitting to go on the ground and actually go to people's homes and interview them so we felt that a web-based survey would have been the best way to collect the information. So persons are going to get an invitation asking them to participate in the survey and so the flow and digital have agreed to partner with us to send out those text messages asking persons who use their services to participate in the survey. We would also be posting the link on Facebook so you can look at the GIS website, the Bureau of Health website. We would also be using WhatsApp and other social media platforms to actually put out these invitations asking persons to participate. Now participating it's at your own will. You're not forced to participate in the survey but we would prefer if persons who receive the invitation would participate in the survey because the more information and the more persons who participate, the more information we have and it would help us to make decisions that would better help us in terms of safety measures and control where COVID-19 is concerned. Wonderful. Well we are due for a break so we'll definitely continue this discussion. We'll be back in a moment. Good day everyone. I am Dr Sharon Belmont George, Chief Medical Officer in the Ministry of Health and Wellness. In the management of COVID-19 there are actions that must be taken if you begin to feel unwell. First you must monitor your symptoms. If you develop respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough, runny nose, sneezing, sore throat, call one of the clinical support telephone numbers for advice. If the medical care provider tells you that the symptoms are mild please follow the recommended steps of care. If your symptoms are moderate to severe you will be advised to go to the respiratory clinic closest to you. Wear face mask when leaving the house especially if you are coughing or sneezing. This will prevent others from getting the infection. We recommend regular hand washing and the use of hand sanitizer when away from home. Also avoid direct contact with others and also to reduce touching other surfaces. When going to the medical facility please go directly to the medical provider. Do not sit among the other patients. Testing and treatment and care to persons with COVID-19 is free of charge. Work with the Ministry of Health and Wellness as we reduce the impact of COVID-19 on you and your families. For further information please contact the Bureau of Health Education at 468-5347-468-5349 or 468-5350. Welcome back we will continue our discussion with Dr Gemma Sherry on the CUP survey. Before we took the break you were discussing in terms of the survey and you touched a little bit on the structure. Can you tell us what exactly is the structure and how long will it take for someone to actually complete the survey? Okay the survey takes 10 minutes about 10 minutes to be completed. It is not a very long survey so it's broken up into a demographic section where we basically asking you information about your age, your age, your community, you come from etc. Then we go into the knowledge section of it so we want to know what it is that you know about COVID-19. Then there's an attitudes section like I said it's basically for us to know what you believe, what your thoughts are as it pertains to certain things regarding COVID-19 and there's a practices section where we want to know what it is that persons have been practicing since the start of the epidemic because all this information is out there what are people doing differently that they were not doing before and of course you have a general section which contains I think three questions and it's just for you to tell us if you think we could win the war against COVID-19 just general questions. Great and when will the survey commence and for how long? Okay the survey is actually due to commence on Monday the 29th of June and it will run for a two-week period. Great and for some for some persons the concern might be of confidentiality can you speak on that as it relates to the survey? Okay so the survey we're not asking you any personal information for for example we're not asking you for name we're not asking for religion or anything like that what we are asking for is your age your marital status your level of education etc that information will be kept confidential so you if you take part in the survey nobody has to know that this response for example if you for NEL take part in the survey nobody has to know that this response came from for NEL what we are going to do we are going to put it all together at the end and we are going to make a summary that information is also going to be kept on computers that are password protected so there's no way that anybody will say or Jim Jack or Joan was the one who gave us the information so there's no need for persons to feel afraid that somebody's going to know that it was me who gave the response. Great and you mentioned in terms of the information that we received from the survey what part will it actually play in the public health efforts in terms of our response to COVID-19? Okay so it can actually help to strengthen our public health education campaign so for example the the adverts on masks etc are out there so if people depend on the responses they give we would actually know why persons do where they mask why persons don't do certain things and we can now tailor the messages it would also help us in terms of policy decisions that would be taken and we could also find out for example if some of the information is not reaching the population as it's supposed to we can actually now go back and look at revisit these messages that we have there and we can now tailor them to the needs of the public. Okay so we can definitely say that it will strengthen the health communication and social engagement. Certainly it will. Wonderful and as it relates to the survey would it lend to documentants in Russia's experience in managing COVID-19? Oh certainly it will because we've had a number of outbreaks and we've not documented so we had Chikungunya, we had Zika and you have lots of countries documenting the experiences and thus far if you look at news items international news items you would see that Senucia has been getting lots of praise for the way it has handled the outbreak so far so this would just be one other step in documenting part of our response as it relates to COVID-19 so it actually puts us there again on the map. Great and what message would you like to leave for Saint Lucians as it relates to the survey? Okay I would like to encourage Saint Lucians to participate in the survey because here's your chance to actually play a part in what is happening as it relates to COVID-19 and the measures that we put in place. Here's your chance to be part of history and I would like to encourage Saint Lucians please be as truthful as possible because at the end of the day we're not just asking you the information because we want to know the information is going to help in terms of what measures we take the policy decisions and they are all meant at protecting each and every one of us in terms of COVID-19. Okay and again we want to remind Saint Lucians that the survey will commence on June 29th and it will be for two weeks long period and it's also an online survey and if they have any problems they could always reach out to the Ministry of Health and they can ask for me and I would be more than willing to address their concerns. Wonderful well we have actually come to the end of the program for today I want to thank you so much for providing us with this information on the CAHPS survey. Thank you. You have been watching Health Focus, a production of the Ministry of Health and Wellness. I am Final Neptune on behalf of the entire production team. Thanks for watching. Until next time.


one shiver one thousand here and I've got monkey one thousand so tonight well we got two true spooky stories for you but it's mainly about a question if you guys can help us out on we would appreciate it so stick around and let's get into this so I had like I said I have a question for you and we'll get to that here in just a minute first I want monkey to tell you about her story these are a couple quick stories and then I'll get to the question so go ahead my okay last night I was sleeping and it was really it was probably just before four o'clock in the morning and I was asleep and I'm a sightseeing and I'm a roller so I went to roll towards Shaber and as I was rolling that way it's facing you're facing the closet and you're also facing the doorway so I as I was doing that I had opened up my eyes and I seen the door open up into the bedroom yeah the same door that opened up on that video yeah I was doing that I didn't notice the first yeah the same door she saw it open and I woke you up well she didn't like hey Shaber she didn't she said look at that or something like that something like that and I said what I'm very light sleeper in fact I was I think I was awake when she rolled over but and I said what she said that door just opened and then he said what way and I said in towards the bedroom and then he says oh that means they're coming in and I was like oh that's nice to know I've seen that before not with my eyes though I caught it on video right she actually saw it with her eyes so nerve-wracking to see that though now I know what he feels like when he sees stuff like that because it's like you know I haven't always seen it like seen it seen it yeah well it's like when you know when I showed her that video she's like hmm that's weird isn't it I'm like what do you what is something like it happens to you she actually seen it and she's still freaking out today about it yeah now earlier we were in the bathroom they're talking and the door was open a little bit and that camera up here up there perfect shot of that door and we're in there talking and I think I was talking about somebody sent me a friend would request a messenger and messaging and stuff like that that's what we were talking about and all at once the door opened farther and I thought it was a Bruno so you'll hear me get real quiet and it wasn't Bruno and I'll show you the clip and I said did you see that and she says yeah we both saw it but guess what here's where the question comes in that door did not move on the camera you watch as close as you want to that door did not move a smidgen not at all did it move but we both seen it move how come the camera didn't catch so that's the camera caught the door yeah what I'm saying is the door did not move no so that's my question how can we both see something that did not happen that's my question there's no way it moved cameras don't lie that door did not move here's the clip of that so you see what I'm saying you can hear is both did you see that yeah okay well we both saw it move because I thought Bruno cuz he'll come in sometime I thought Bruno was coming in no I saw the door move she saw the door move we heard that door move and as you can see it didn't that's my question how can we see both see something happen that didn't really happen because if it did the camera would have picked it up you would have seen it moving on camera so why did we see something that didn't happen and not just one of us but both of us that's that's the door opening up last night that was a little scary well you still want to have skeptics like you know like you know I read that whole thing or your mom was here you were here I had an accomplice that's what that one guy said well you know maybe he had an accomplice trying to sound you know like well I'm not doubting you but I am you know maybe had an accomplice look nobody was here and I've had so many people ask me you mean you did not see that moving well that's because I was not looking at the screen I was looking at the camera like I am now right so you know like I didn't and it moved so slow I wouldn't have seen that on the monitor because I was looking up the camera well I thought maybe it was Bruno too because we were leaving the door open a little bit because my mom's not here so yeah why close it you know so but I did see it move and I thought well maybe Bruno ran out there but he was sleeping in his bed right beside me so it wasn't Bruno and it's not Snickers oh what it was was okay we just got out of the shower and we showered together a lot because you know we got well water so you know it's better for the well so but we had just just gotten out and that's what we were talking about and that's what we were talking about the whole time in there and so we were standing in there talking and boom yeah I saw it she saw it because you'll hear me just get real quiet I'll say something about sent me a friend request or whatever well you saw the clip so and I just got you know I looked yeah I said you see that she's a yeah so that's that's my question you know I've been in the paranormal you know well pretty much on my life I started like doing paranormal investigations when I was 18 I started out with a big boombox to record my audio and a little Kodak disc I'm gonna get you with Kodak disc remember that that's what I started out with taking my pictures we didn't have well I had one of those two but I mean you know we didn't have we can afford video cameras I was 18 right but I've never ran into this problem I've never had anybody asked me about this I I've tried I don't know how long looking it up on Google and it's not coming up with anything close to what I'm talking about so have you had to happen and if you know any more about that why that happened please let me know because I don't know I'm gonna still try to research the best I can to find out how two people can see the same thing happen that didn't happen because I'm telling you that camera picks that door up fine and you can see it did not move an inch but we saw it move you know I've ran into people said did you see that I just saw that move and and you know everybody else right now I didn't see it I didn't see it you know and that's usually what it is one person well we both saw it we both heard it but it didn't happen yeah that's pretty scary this is true stories here yeah yeah so you know like the orb thing you know I mean come on we just had a lot a lot of stuff going on we heard it we've been hearing a dog bark one bark yeah yeah I did too and I've heard it you know she's been past three days well four days five days actually since Saturday she's been out the hospital most the day all day every day with her mom and I've heard it I don't know how many times I mean bedroom well that's that's where we we watch our shows and stuff is in the bedroom you know the big screen and we just watch YouTube right so and we just hear one coming from like out here it kind of sounds like it's in the garage yeah you know because it doesn't have the echo like oh you know like this does no so it kind of sounds like it's in another room but it sounds it just sounds like a dog one bark that's not and not a big dog no a little like a yeah yeah you know one bark and it sounds like it's coming from in the garage and we've been hearing that for the past week you know so what about the light what light that light that goes in the hallway yeah motion like I was weird to motion that happened this week too yeah motion like kept coming on one night weird cuz you can see it you know when our doors cracked it was a light was there and it just I'm just sitting here with us watching TV and all month cuz it's right in front of our door and so you can see it you see if when the light comes on cuz it's kind of bright you have to buy it but you have to go buy it yeah you have to get in front of it and our beds off to the side so it couldn't have picked us up Bruno was on the bed with us and of course snickers is gone now so so and her mom hasn't been here no so what you know what in that one night it did it like five times yeah and then see it come on taking it out because I see that but the thing about it is you know and then it comes on for a minute or whatever and then shut the self off yeah hour later like we come on again yeah like somebody walk like that again I only did it that one day it's never done it before mm-hmm never has that trouble and it hasn't done it since the other night weird stuff going on so we'll keep you posting on the stuff that's a lot of stuff's been happening around here this morning I come out and I have my coffee and I do my stuff and then I watch the news for a few minutes before I go to the hospital and there was a bird sitting at the window outside but it was right there at the window well that's not really paranormal well it may seem strange but okay but I've seen happened all the time no but that's not paranormal I mean to me that's not so we got a stick with what you know I mean you can explain that birds sitting windows all the time well I mean something okay all right that's fine but I'm trying to stick what's going on in here the stuff that we cannot explain like the late no seeing that door move two people see something happen that didn't happen a dog barking one time now didn't it happen on several occasions but it's one bark and it sounds like it's coming from in the grudge and that's happened several times so I don't know guys and it's not from from like outside no no we you can tell because I mean you can hear I mean you know your house you know if we can hear that adult a neighbor's dog bark or this neighbor's dog bark we know yeah but for this to sound like it's in this house in this garage because the door is usually open and it just sounds like it's in the garage just that one bark not outside not up front not you know the neighbor's dog is a big dog and it don't never just bark once no it barks and barks and barks the same way with the guy behind us his dogs they bark and bark and bark they don't just and that's it yep so I don't know guys anyway that's our question can you help us out and our story so wait a minute and you want to add anything else you think oh no that's enough for me I thought there's a way to something happens to you that door does at the end of night but no when she sees it just like I said you did something you never used to it was like you know you ever had something touch it she was like now now it's no big deal and then when something touched her we was at the replace replace believe it or not museum she was the only one in this room she comes she goes just touch my shoulder and she was all freaking out her hairs were standing up on her arms and I was like where like what it's no big deal something touch you now I know what you mean and she she hasn't heard her name yet so wait oh she hears her name whispered right guys some of you guys out there has had to happen I'm sure when you hear your name and nobody's there that's something you just never used that so anyway guys please help us out if you can appreciate you watching thanks for listening to our stories so all right she better admit the man legend for now bye guys we'll see you in the next one