but as far as competition. Only as competition, cause the beauty in music is everybody can be number one. You know, I can be number one this week, the next week somebody else can come in. A really thing like Apple Music, I can be number one for this hour and then two hours later you can be number one. So it's like, it's a shared space at the top. You know what I mean? It's not a space where only one person can be number one. So that's how I kind of look at it with my other executives that are at the top with me. It's like, I'm gonna help make sure you get yours. You know what I mean? Cause to the truth of the matter is you can be number one for one minute, get that screen shot and that's all you need. That's the truth. You know what I mean? So for me, with my friends, like I want to just make sure they reach that. You know what I mean? I'm not involved. You my boy, I got to help you. You got to touch that number one. So it's not a competition in that sense, but as far as being oversaturated, very much so. And I just feel like, man, just like kind of like, I care about who the president is, but at the end of the day, I got to make a shake for me. And so that's kind of how I feel about it being oversaturated. I care about it, but I got to make it shake for me. I got to find a way. You know what I mean? So that's how I move with it. That makes a lot of sense. And the way you make it shake today. Yeah. Is the point that you said you made, I think Jacory sent me the video and I was like, yeah, man, we've been talking about the same thing. Having your own media company. Yeah. How do you look at an artist having their own media company and what you said? Cause I know what I think. Right. Well, I mean, you have to recognize that you need that media. You know what I mean? All music discovery, well, not all, I can't say all, but majority music discovery is through content. You know what I mean? So you have to recognize that that's the only way, well, the best possible way you'll be discovered and the most likely way you'll be discovered. So once you recognize that, then it's like, how do I keep up with the demand of putting out X amount of pieces of content a day? Well, that's why it's called a business or a company because now it's more than just you. You have to put together that team that understands content and what I learned from you, that team that knows how to speak the language of TikTok because that's the language being spoken in content right now, right? So you have to understand that I need a team that understands this to help me execute that mission. But with artists, they still have, in all things in their business, they still have to be the visionary and the leader in that, you know what I mean? Because even if I hire two people to help me make content, they can't make me get out of bed and turn on the camera. You know what I mean? They can't make me sit back and think of the ways to deliver this message. They can help and they give me ideas and they maybe can show up with the camera when I allow them to. But at the end of the day, if I'm not the person that's the most gun hole about this, it's not gonna get done. It's not gonna be successful. First you have to be the number one and then you build a team around. You have to be Michael Jordan, then you have to go find your Scott and you have to go find your Dennis and you have to build that media team. Just like when I started NPR, I knew this already. So I didn't hire A&R team. I hired a content team. That's the first thing I hired. I said, okay, I need to find people who understand content. So I hired that team and we signed money loan and then five months later we were number one because we understood content. You wanna move streams, you need content. And we understood that best. But now, you know, here we are two years later, everybody has followed that blueprint and so now you have this flooding. And so now I was like, okay, they flooded what we were doing great. So we have to find another way to be great. You know what I mean? Because that way is too oversaturated. And so that's what we're in the midst of doing with the Manny Wells and with Amari Noel. We're in the midst of changing what it looks like to be great in order to succeed because our old method is flooded already. On August 12th, myself, Sean and JR McKee will be hosting a live event in Atlanta where we'll be sharing some of our best marketing, branding and content strategies that we haven't really been able to put out anywhere else. So if you want a reason to come to Atlanta or if you're in Atlanta or if you just want to adapt us up and see if we're real, go and get your tickets at nolabelsnecessary.com or check the link in the description if you're watching this on YouTube. We're only doing 60 tickets, like a hard 60 tickets. So you want to make sure that you're one of those 60 once again, nolabelsnecessary.com or check the link in the description and we'll see you there. But I'll give the game away since we all know labels necessary. I believe what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to find ways to create experiences. You know what I mean? You're going to have to find ways to create experiences and then from that experience the content will be able to break through on the internet. But you have to create these experiences because everybody's on the internet. But the artist that can come to my hometown or a wild mile at their hometown or whatever the case may be, the artist that can connect with me in a different way besides the internet is going to be the artist that's going to flourish the most. You know what I mean? Because I can like 10 artists on the internet but the one person that was in my crib, oh no, I love him. You know what I'm saying? You have to find a way to create these experiences and of course you have to document those experiences and put that content online because that experience will reach that one person but the way that that feeling comes across the screen will reach millions. You know what I mean? For example, Manny Wells going home for the first time in Nigeria. You know what I mean? Him showing the experience of connecting with his father at the 14 years, although you're not him and you're not his father, you feel it. You know what I'm saying? It's connected with him in a different way. Exactly. I know Manny for a while. When I saw that video, that's just different. It's just different. And so how do I create those experiences more often to be able to connect way larger on the internet? You know what I mean? And so that's what we're in the process of figuring out for Manny and for Amari and that's how we're gonna break them and take them to the top. It's great, man, because hearing you talk is like there's always things that we're on the same page with. I've been waiting for something that we can argue about but I haven't seen it yet. Because we even say the way fans see you treating other fans, they almost appreciate it as if it was them, right? Yes, yes. Like showing, like you said, these real-world experiences of I did this with a fan or like this happened in this private event that we had with the fans. Like we had the artist who was doing this real dope private event and she was able to sell out with 75 tickets, $400. That's dope. On the 75 Cat Room, right? And she's already gearing up to do another one. Like nothing, right? And the way that's gonna connect and have to be shown back online. It's all the same thing. And I think that leads to something, I guess, what's required on that side, right? In terms of doing an event well in your opinion. I mean, again, this process, I don't wanna call it new to me but I'm trial and error in this process. And so I'm still learning, I don't have this master yet. But I think at the end of the day, it has to be, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't wanna say small, it has to be limited. It has to be, it has to be, it's a word I'm looking for. Personal, intimate. Well it has to be personal, it has to be intimate for sure. But like, what's the word when like the quantity is small? I can't think of a word, I almost lost some of me. But anyway, let's just stick with small and intimate. It has to be that because it has to be personal. You know what I mean? So that's number one, it's like, I feel like it has to be personal. Every person there has to feel a much deeper connection with you than they would if they were at a concert with 3,000 people. You know what I mean? Because again, you looking for that feeling to come across on camera because it's still about content at the end of the day. You know what I mean? That feeling has to be different than the feeling of 3,000 people. You know what I mean? So I think that's the first part. It's just those intimate experiences.  Like that, every, out of those 75 people, every single one that I promise you, they're gonna talk to 10, 20 people about you. You know what I mean? And so that's how your fan-based spreads. You know what I mean? So you just gotta make sure they feel like this experience was amazing and they got to connect with the artists. Because I think what's gonna end up happening is instead of having, you know, two or three just super dominant superstars, everybody's gonna have their own space. You know what I mean? So as a young fan, as a 12 year old, let's go, as a 15 year old, I'm gonna have two or three artists that I really love that most people would have never heard of. You know what I mean? And so that's gonna be the way that consumers experience music, in my opinion, moving forward. They're gonna have their people that they love that everybody else isn't up on. And that's fine because I haven't been to this person where there's only us and 50 people. You know what I mean? Like this is my guy. This is my girl. You know what I'm saying? So that's how fans are gonna feel about their people, about their artists. So I think that's more or less what we're headed to where everybody will be able to have their own thing versus all of us loving Beyoncé. Yeah. And by the way, I'm not saying we'll love Beyoncé forever, but the point I'm making is it's gonna be you have your people versus everybody loving one person. Yeah, it ain't gonna be you have any new Beyoncé. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But this space has been created because if you look at technology, how, right, first it allowed us to connect with people in other places. Then it got to a point where, you know, we got detached and then we had working from home. So you have these people that don't have a way to connect and create community in the same way it was just natural without us thinking about it growing up. So you have generations that are looking for people to connect to and a lot of them are doing it through their artists. And when we add these events and create community around yourself, like that's why I was talking about, this is part of what we were arguing about between Russ versus Lil' Russell. Oh, you're not gonna let it go. I'm not gonna let it go. I was following you, I meant to say you're not too late. It doesn't matter. It was great for the content. So you gotta hold, you gotta hold the position on going forward. Yeah, you gotta stand on it. I'm not saying you gotta stand on it. So there's a difference between having a very strong fan base. You can have a very, very, very strong fan base and be successful as an artist versus having a community, right? And the community are also going to be fans, but they're not a community. The community requires the fans to actually connect and interact with each other. They have a certain set of values. All Drake fans don't necessarily- Had the same values. You know what I mean? But Lil' Russell, you can probably identify what they look like. J. Cole has a bit of a community going forward. We kind of know who his fan base is. You can look at him and he and J. Cole. Yeah, exactly. You know, you got to dream a little fast and it's like they all kind of look like they're in the same category. Right. Yeah, exactly, exactly.  So yeah, I get it. A new age backpack rapper, for sure. So that's what you get the opportunity to do at these private type of events. Or as a private- You build a community. Whatever those type of events are. And you can still sell to people at these events. It's a great size. And because it's a smaller community that are accustomed to supporting you, they'll support you with much larger numbers. So I'm not selling these shows for $20 tickets. You know what I'm saying? I'm selling like you said for $100. I'm selling them for much more because this is a small community that appreciates me much more than they appreciate somebody that they've just seen online. You know what I mean? So you're actually able to make more revenue doing it this way. Keeping it small, keeping it limited. Yeah, what I think is interesting too is like fans have kind of been asking for that for years, right? Like you only see fans say like, man, like I'm trying to get keep you, right? I'm trying to keep you just to me. And it feels like now they've come to the realization like, oh, there's a price for that. Yeah. That price isn't gonna be cheap. But to your point, I would much rather pay $100 to be able to daff up my favorite artist. Right. $300 just to see Drake, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I mean, I think it's, the times we are moving into are beautiful. You know, it's gonna be an amazing time and amazing atmosphere. And artists are gonna be able to eat.  Like every artist that is able to create a community is going to be able to do well.


I know who I am. I've always known who I was and I get that from my grandmother. And as far as your drive to rise above your earliest circumstances, what did she do to help you with that, to find that drive? Wow, she would tell, she definitely talked to me a lot.   And I did. It was things I wanted to do growing up in East St. Louis, Illinois, that what I unheard of.  And she was like, okay. So everything's a possibility. Everything's a possibility.


evils of free market capitalism. Inequality, aristocracy, those people has made me so despised. There is more to it than just this. Why is my background not working? We just knew it wasn't going to go well, there it is. Alright, it's been a while since we've seen that intro hasn't it fellas? I'm going to assume you can all hear me by the way. In the last 10 minutes I've had to completely set all of this up from scratch because I've had a new computer.  I've got a new computer since then I've lost all my streaming settings so this has all been set up on the fly in 10 minutes. Normally it's always audio issues I have. Guys are talking about cats. I'm going to assume then you can hear me. Someone said cringe intro, worshipping fiat money too much. I completely understand where you're coming from but I have a solution. If you send me all your fiat money I promise you it will be disposed of. I'll take it off your hands and do the work for you. Don't even worry about it. Don't need to thank me. Just send a super chat. It's right there on YouTube. It's all you need.  Normally I have a screen where you can see my screen. Currently we don't have one up and running so I'm going to try and make one right now and you're going to be able to watch the process unfold.  It's going to be very hodge podge. And I think this is going to be roughly right. Look at that beautiful.  Alright. So that works. I don't have a hotkey set up either so we're going to be real boomer flicking back and forth between these two screens. So sketch this is what you come here for. You didn't expect things to work properly did you? Yes I will take all your money don't worry about it. The easiest thing Joker did was burn Fiat money. I'll take that as true because I have a confession right here right now. I haven't seen Joker yet. Make of that what you will maybe I'm a... I was about to say the I word but after what happened in this country like last week I can't... I don't want to be saying that word right now. Do I know how to get rid of a fruit fly infestation?  There we go. Ali2567 getting rid of his Fiat money to a good cause. What okay I'll start off with your question then. Oh my god and another one. See it's working it's all working. Okay friend Ali here. Also I don't have my alerts popping up on the screen right now. Sorry about that. I don't know where my alerts actually went. No idea. So I'm just going to have to read out the questions that come through in donations and hope I catch them. If someone donates and I don't catch it you need to scream at me in the chat. Have no other way of knowing. So Ali saying what do I think of the military? Do you think that we need a military to defend trade and capitalism? Man you know what we're going to we're returning to tradition already aren't we? And I'm going to tell you to read Chaos Theory by Bob Murphy. It's a very very complicated topic. It's all to do with incentives and how much it would cost for a giant military to try and take over. A small country.  Because I can't do it justice off the top of my head. So for your $4.99 I'm afraid I'm going to defer you to Bob Murphy. The man's got a PhD and I'm good at editing videos. So other people in chat if you are more familiar with Chaos Theory off the top of your head feel free to answer it. And I'll try to get back to that. And thank you to Ander Garcia Aguierre. I'm going to guess. I convinced you thank you for doing this public service. The pleasure is all mine. I'll take this on my shoulders in the name of the greater good. Okay so I'm going to do this scuffed way of transferring over to this screen. I'm going to get on to our first question. Sam Dee. I had a lefty friend of mine ask what's the difference between taxation and profit. Love the videos man keep up the good work. Well thank you very much Sam Dee.  But if you taxation and profit. Okay right. You are paid a wage for let's say working at Walmart. Your wage is paid in advance of any profit that is made. Regardless if you stack the shelf and nothing on that shelf sells during that week you still get paid for that week. Even though the company hasn't made any money off your labor. That is how you can say that surplus value doesn't really exist. Given that all value is subjective. And you need surplus value to exist to say it's theft. Well I'm sorry it doesn't. You are paid for things that might not even make a profit. That is why you don't get as much money as the CEO. Because you are deferring risk in order to be paid an advance on future profit that hasn't been made yet. You can't get profit off of something that hasn't been sold. And you are paid normally regardless of things sell or not. If you were a self-employed that would not be the case. If you were a door-to-door salesman you own all your stock yourself. If you don't sell any of your stock you get no money. But if you do sell all of your stock you'd get more money than if you just worked in a vacuum store or whatever it is you're selling door-to-door. So that is first of all why profit is not theft. But secondly if you say you shop at Walmart for your groceries every week. If you stop going to Walmart and stop giving them your money what's going to happen to you? Nothing? You're going to go somewhere else?  What's going to happen to you? You can't go anywhere else. You'll be put on a no-fly list.   So there's my answer to that. I hope that serves you well. Scuffed transition again. Sven Ceylon. Ceylon? I'm going to assume it's Ceylon. That sounds French but then a Scandinavian first name. How do you respond to critics when they bring up the problem of planned obsolescence or the general decline of product quality in free market economies? Definitely two separate questions. One first of all, planned obsolescence. I'm not too sure. That isn't something I've heard been critiqued too much. I know what it is. It's the idea that your iPhone deliberately gets slower over time so that you're incentivized to buy another iPhone. I'd wonder if our culture of inflation and low interest rates contributes to that quite highly. I'm sure it probably does. A culture which incentivizes rapid spending on kind of useless material goods rather than saving. It's probably got a part to play in that. We're incentivized with our money to be repetitive consumers and not savers, not business starters, not wealth generators, just earn and spend. If companies are just going to try and speed that already occurring process up, then they're obviously just trying to latch on to another problem. That problem is the consumerism of inflation and low interest rates where savers become losers. For the general decline of product quality in free market economies, I feel as an absolute non-starter. That sounds like feels over reels essentially. I feel like product quality was better back in the day. You have no basis to go off that with. I've never seen this being made as an empirical claim because quite frankly it's absurd for us to try and claim in our cushy little lives that we have here that we're so hard done by and all of our products are so crap. I feel like that's just so much of a stretch. It's not salient. Salient? Salient? Salient I think is the word I want. So I hope that answers your question there Sven and I hope I got your last name right. Now, Satchit. I see you on Twitter my dude.  Someone has to. Thoughts on Nick Land's philosophy of accelerationism as a means to anarcho-capitalism. Now, I've heard of Nick Land. He's often thrown in a lot with Curtis Yavin, known as Menchius Moldbug, as being one of the two biggest guys currently around for the NRX neo-reactionary philosophy. I was absolutely not aware that Nick Land sought accelerationism as a means to anarcho-capitalism. I thought as a neo-reactionary he wouldn't be too concerned. Even though I know NRX and Ancap isn't exactly mutually exclusive, Hopper is kind of the connecting link there, even though he's kind of... He's not explicitly on their side but makes a lot of the same points. So I don't know. I for one am not in favour generally of accelerationism for reasons I might have to make a whole specific video about. So I'm not sure. I'll look into that. Nick Land just seems like a real weird one. You know the schizo memes of... I don't even know how to explain it. The schizo remix of somebody I used to know by...  He reminds me of them. But anyway, I don't know about it. So I'll look into it. It sounds interesting for sure. User name. That's an interesting username. What are your thoughts on the concept of resource-based economies slash post-scarcerities economies and the Venus Project? I'm not sure what you've just talked about there. Well, first of all, I don't know what the Venus Project is. By resource-based economies, do you mean a barter economy? Which is kind of... a barter economy is a weird contradiction in the first place. Post-scarcity, that's a joke. Scarcity cannot be eliminated. It's quite literally just a simple fact that our universe is not... Well, what is available to us? Time. Time for one is not infinite. We have a scarce amount of time on this Earth. We need our time to be able to produce things. We need materials to be able to produce things. There's no such thing as an infinite material. Not even air is. Yeah, there's an on-starter. I think as Rothbard puts it, it was great. In order for you to have... to drink some Diet Coke without scarcity, it would need to instantly materialize inside your stomach. Or else you are expending energy to pick up a can. The can is made out of scarce materials.  That is all involving scarcity. There's no such thing as post-scarcity. It's... I don't know. It's post-realism. It's post-existence. Post-universe nonsense. So I hope that clears that one up for you. SH with a good old Ludwig von Mises as your profile picture. They're big respect. This question has been annoying me lately and I haven't found an answer to it. Can Hopper's defense of monarchy relative to democracy, good brackets there, be used to call fascist states superior to democracy? Now that... I'm not too sure. I would say because a dictator is consumed by ideology, it probably throws all of their incentives out of whack. A monarch, if we think of the general European term, is not obsessed with forcing an ideology on the people under their control. They literally just want to live and let live be as prosperous as they can. And they'd be wise if they realized that letting people prosper is taking a step back, lifting your hands up and just letting them get on with it.  It's very easy to see that fascism is actually worse than democracy. I don't think democracy is the worst system ever.  And you can get into the argument then of how much of a fascism is comprised of socialism. And what would be the point in saying you have a socialist monarch that's an oxymoron? The incentives of socialism are contrary to the incentives of monarchy. And the incentives of socialism are contrary to the incentives of say anarcho-capitalism. That's why I make the point that if we're going to push ourselves in the right direction, where should we be going? And if we look at the incentives, it's pretty obvious. It's not towards a mixed state, a mixed economy, which is what fascism is, a mixed economy dictatorship. That is not a typical European hands-off-ish monarchy. All right. Northumbrian isk. I guess you're up north and proud of it. Oh no, we're talking about Plymouth. This is what I was trying to avoid the I word for. In light of the disgusting shooting in Plymouth, a disturbing reaction was people who, instead of trying to commemorate the dead, immediately jumped to demanding even stricter gun laws. Do you think this incident spells the end for the already tiny amount of gun ownership in the UK? Well, I only looked into this like immediately as it happened. And I don't remember if they said at the time whether the weapon... So the guy had a weapons license or firearms license. And I don't remember if the shotgun he used in the shooting was compliant under the license and legal, basically. I don't remember that. So someone remind me in the chat if you know if that's the case. If Lucy's here, I'm going to guess he would know about it. Well, you're absolutely right. It's these tragedies wherever they may occur are immediately the graves are trampled over by people using it as a political football. Immediately to try and bear past some sort of agenda, get everyone scared, get them all motivated to go out and vote and blame the other party for all the issues of the world. Never let a good crisis go to waste.  Speaking of which, go listen to his podcast because I was on it. And will it get rid of all gun ownership in the UK? Now, I'm not too sure. I saw a headline recently that Pretty Patel wants to add a medical check to the background check that goes into a firearms license. I'm like, I think that's already compulsory, unless she means like, have you got asthma as if that's like relevant to owning a gun in any way? I don't think it's going to see we're going to see any sort of actual confiscations. I don't think we're going to see any tighter rules on what actual ownership of firearms involves, but it's probably going to become harder to get the license, but I don't see a point in getting the license anyway. It's ridiculous. There's no point in having a firearm license for most of the firearms you can get your hands on. The only thing you can do anything with is a shotgun and that'll be why he used a shotgun if he owned it legally. Hey, got another donation coming in the only Patrick. I've seen you in the chat a bit, my dude. I get through the questions on my post before I go through chat, but I always bump up donations to the top. Bloody, you've got your money's worth and ask three questions in one. Okay, but these are easy questions. Have to answer these. So thank you again for the donation £5. You guys give me a warm welcome back already. I love it.  You shouldn't want it. Have I got eczema tower power? No, I don't. I'm normal. I'm not deficient. I'm not subhuman. Anyway, the only Patrick. One, are you a nationalist? I guess if you were to say opposed to globalism, I'd prefer some sort of decentralization over total worldwide centralization. Nationalists has a different meaning and different contexts. Don't forget an Irish nationalist and a Scottish nationalist are not the same as an American nationalist. The Irish and Scots are nationalists because they want to be their own separate nation and not part of the United Kingdom. In which case you could say, well, I mean, that's got nothing to do with race. That is a completely different meaning. I would prefer nationalism over globalism. But in terms of the other connotation that nationalism normally comes with, which is normally like militarism. Yeah, you know, you know all the connotations I mean. Generally, no, it can it can easily lead to bad things if it's not used as a tool for decentralization. As long as it's a tool for decentralization. Yes, I'd rather have that than not. But there are there are many, many other problems that come with it. That's an interesting question. I'm reading the Bible at the moment because I'm trying to find out if I am. I've been an agnostic and a deist for a very long time, accepting like, well, Christians say that their religion is true and they know everything. Agnostic atheists say they know everything. I mean, neither of them are really true. They're both really narcissistic and arrogant in making that sort of claim.  I'm just going to live a good life and see what happens. If I live a good life and I get sent to hell, then heaven wasn't worth trying to get into. So I'm still there and I'm reading the Bible and I'm finding it very far more interesting than I thought I would. And especially the historicity in terms of the actual historical legitimacy of the New Testament happening. That has blown my mind away. So I've got Theo the first saying, you're agnostic too. Look into that. Look up. Shit, what's the video? There's a guy called a 10 minute Bible hour, which I think is a nice name. There's something about like, did Jesus exist? And he goes through all the historical unbiased Roman sources saying like there's a guy called Jesus running around in Judea causing a load of problems. We need to crucify him. And that was to me was just like, whoa, hang on. There's actual historical records of this man existing that I've just taken to be like a fairy tale all this time. I found it super interesting. So look into that. Thoughts on minicism. I am living proof of the adage, the difference between a minicist and an anarchist is six months. If you go back and listen to the e-militia podcast from their first episodes, I held out for so long saying, no, I'm a minicist. I'm not going to be an anarcho capitalist. There are things that the free market cannot provide. And they're the most important things.  So let's give it all the most important things to be in charge of. I was there. Minicism does not hold up. Anyone who knows what minicism is knows at least what an anarcho capitalism is. And at that point they're doomed. They're going to become it.  And you won't be a minicist for long. If you really get into a lot of talks with some intelligent people. That's what happened to me. Six months is pretty much exactly how long it lasted from when I said I'm a minicist to becoming an anarchist. And where do I get news and which libertarians do you listen to? I'm going to assume if you mean like podcasts and stuff. But where do I get news?  Something will happen and everyone starts talking about it. That's one way to know about events. I don't watch TV. I follow a few unbiased or at least kind of unbiased news accounts on Twitter. Don't follow mainstream media outlets. And I know everything I need to know.  We wouldn't have known there was a pandemic if none of us had TVs and smartphones. There's no need for going through the established roads to get your news. No need at all. I don't know what's happening. It actually matters without any of that. Who do I listen to? My regular podcast rotations, if that's what you mean. For when I'm exercising, doing the dishes, doing work around the house, studying. Dave Smith, part of the problem. Tom Woodshaw. Of course. I'm so glad Tom's back. He's all okay. Pete Kinyones, free man beyond the wall. And I think there's, I'm sure there's one more. We just look through that. I'm forgetting that I have on like super regular rotation. There are plenty of others I listen to as well, though. Bear with me. Oh, you're welcome with Michael Malice. That's it, of course. But tower power hour with the tower gang. Go check them out. I've seen them in the chat. The guy who runs there. Hey, there you go. Same. Pick me, pick me. There you are. Go check that out, man. I'm going to tower power hour. They recently had shoe on head on their podcast. I haven't listened to that yet, but apparently they just chilled and have a good time. And that's what we like to see radicals getting along.  And just calm down. Oh, someone said Josh Smith in the chat too. I've only listened to a couple podcast episodes of him, but I could certainly recommend him.  Nick Ashley, who's on the tower power hour tower gang. What? How do you guys refer to yourselves tower power hour or tower gang? Which one is it? I'm going to say tower gang because it's easier. Nick Ashley from tower gang went on the fake attarians podcast. Now, if you listen to Tom Woods and Dave Smith, you'd have heard of people called the loser brigade. This is them.  They call it the fake attarian podcast. Nick Ashley went on there and it was just beautiful. I've never seen TPH or tower gang. It's whatever. Cool. Oh, man, it may. It made my day when I watched that. Josh Smith did join in later. So Nick gave himself an intro of Metallica for whom the bell tolls. And so it's going boom.  It's our Westpin star. They have no idea what's about to hit them.  He's got the Burger King hat on pit viper sunglasses and a red.  What's that pan called? I don't know what the pan is a mask.   And it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. They are so far from any sort semblance of self awareness.   It was so funny. No, it's the, uh, no, not played, not Hawaii. And it's the like fucking, you know, Mexican gangster pattern that looks like a teardrop or something. Oh, it was amazing. Oh, yeah, that was a great time. Go and listen to that. So well, that's all of the four questions. Thank you very much. The only Patrick. Hope you, uh, hope those are satisfying now. God, Paisley. Thank you. Yes. See. Tower Gang's got it.  Do you? I have power of you. All right. Let's go back to the normal questions. We've got anarchists straight to the point with that username. What do you think may exist in an Ancap society as an alternative to pilot's licenses? Well, private pilots licenses probably like just, uh, private certification boards saying that this person has had this many hours of flight training. We say they're good enough to fly. If they turn out to be incompetent, we're putting our neck on the line by giving them a seal of approval. And then would you ever let someone fly you around who doesn't have a good accredited private license to fly a plane or certification? No, you wouldn't. So all pilots are going to have to get some sort of certification and say, I know what I'm doing. And everyone who gives them those certifications is incentivized to make sure they actually do know what they're doing. I think it's something that can totally be figured out in the market. Just don't fly with people who don't know how to fly. And there will be ways to figure out who can fly and how well. So there you go. Cole Schmidt. Not a political question. What are you hoping to see changed or added to Tarkov? And what video games am I excited for? Tarkov, I'm mad. I haven't played that game in a couple of weeks. I'm just, it's such a labor of love. That's the word I always, oh no. Oh, crashing Zulu. You maybe thought the stream was crashing airline companies are fine with their million dollar planes.  I mean, all you need to do is ask the government doesn't want you to know this, but all you need to do is ask if you can fly a plane that they'll let you. So what would I like to see changed to Tarkov?  When inertia gets added to the movement of that's probably when I'll come back. They said that's going to be before the next wipe. So I'm currently like level 21, haven't touched it for weeks. And I'll probably come back and make the push for level 40 when they finally add inertia.  Ridiculous.  And what video game am I excited for? Battlefield 2042 hyped out of my gourd. Can't wait.   There we are. Hey, we've got Colonel Connell. I never think about saying your name. Good to see you, my man. Ah, stoic question. Okay, what's the stoic answer to getting out of really bad habits such as procrastination, staying up very late and getting up very late? Well, for starters, if you are asking that and you acknowledge that it's a really bad habit, that's, well, as they say, what is it, admittance or confession is the first step to improving? Okay, so you know that procrastinating, having a shit-sleeping schedule is bad. Okay, you know it's bad, so what are you going to do about it? My interpretation of stoicism is always very tough love. It doesn't have to be that way. You can be amazed if you sat down 10 people very knowledgeable about stoicism, ask them a question, and you'll get 10, mostly the same, but very varying different answers back. And mine is always the tough love.  You know it's a bad habit, so what are you going to do about it? Sort yourself out. You've got Jordan Peterson as your profile picture. Just think of Jordan Peterson, tell you to clean your room, stop procrastinating, sort out your sleep schedule. Your habits define you, but you have control of your habits. I believe it was Aristotle who said, oh yeah, I quoted this in my video, I believe. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is but a habit. So develop excellent habits and you'll be an excellent person. Bad habits are hard to break, of course they are, but they're hard for a reason because it's good. If it was, there's a few things in the world that are good and easy. If you want good things, you need to work for them.    That's what I say. You can find other answers, you can find softer touches, you can find more therapeutic, I want to say therapeutic, I guess that's the right word, but like an answer from a therapist. So have you ever heard of a CBT? No, no, no, not what you're thinking. Cognitive behavioral therapy. What else were you thinking? That CBT is literally stoicism in the context of a clinical psychological therapy. The creators of cognitive behavioral therapy say we were inspired by stoicism to turn this inward into psychology and use it for therapy. It's the same thing. So you can take the tough love, you can read the books and just like slap yourself on the face, splash some cold water on yourself, and go and do it, or you can get a therapist to talk to who's trained in CBT, make sure you're going to a therapist and not like a dominatrix. And yeah, there are many answers. But if my point is, if you know that what you're doing is a bad habit, what are you going to do about it? So there you go. Marcus King. What a king. Opinions on NRX. So opinions on NRX and post-libertarian praxean debate. Not sure what you mean by praxean. You could either mean praxis as in, you know, stop talking about it and go do some action or praxeology. I'd like to know which version of that you mean. And my opinions on NRX. I'm post-libertarian. I'm not sure what you mean by that either. But NRX, it's kind of like, I want to say, not sure how to describe it. They're not our enemies, I think for sure. Lots of them are interested in free market economics and returning to monarchy. So straight away, if you are, I want to say sensible. If you think along the same terms as I do, of course I like to think I'm sensible. But if you listen to my democracy video and agreed with me, you will already be on the same wavelength as me in terms of individual rights and free market economics. And so are these guys for the most part. Lots of neo-reactionaries want a monarchy that I described in my democracy versus monarchy video, in which case they're not our enemies. The trouble is like how libertarianism is a spectrum and there are lots of people on various spectrums in libertarianism. I feel like it's the same with the NRX and there are lots of people there who are blatant authoritarians. Maybe they're like some sort of syncretism with groipers and you need to be very wary of them. I think it's very pick and choose with NRX, with who you want to decide you want to ally with, people like Curtis Yavin, probably a smart ally to make. Nick Land, I would normally say no, not a smart ally to make, but as someone asked me earlier, it sounds like his accelerationism idea is to get us to anarcho-capitalism rather than monarchy. So I'll look more into that, but take it on a case-by-case basis, I'd say, with the NRX and I'm sure they'd say the same about us as libertarians. They would say there are some really cool people who are interested in monarchy incentives, the philosophy of power being realistic, not just living in fucking La La Land and then there are libertarians who want to give your kids hormone therapy. I don't blame them for being cautious with us either, but I think we can be cautious safely with them. Okay. Isaiah, how likely do you see a rapid collapse of Western society to be and are we in the same position the USSR was in the 1980s marked especially by the US loss of Afghanistan? So Afghanistan, the graveyard of empire, is rightfully known. A collapse of society, I would not say, is on the cards. Not even a collapse of government, sadly, but it is. We are, for the last five years, as the whole establishment, the state, the regime, whatever you want to call it, has been flailing widely, throwing hammers everywhere, trying to withhold the inevitable of them losing their power. It's just a continuation of that. The power of the establishment is waning, it's hurtling downhill at breakneck speeds. And well, it's hard to say that the withdrawal of Afghanistan is a symptom of that because the endless warfare is a symptom of the state prolonging its own cancerous existence. But now we've left. The response from media has been extremely interesting. Lots of people are going mask off with saying, no, we need these forever wars. We should be there for 100 years. We need to spend 100 trillion. In terms of that, but then it's hard for me to make the connects there between that and, wow, Joe Biden actually just did it.   I don't think it's a straight cut as just analyzing this as a one to one historical analogy. There's a lot of moving parts going on here. Moving parts who thought would be moving in the same direction are going against each other. It's all very weird.  Here's Beanie with a good insight. There are three types of NRX followers. The overly religious, the non-religious and the capitalistic ones. That's interesting. All right. You guys bear with me now. My coffee is cooled down. So I'm going to be taking some regular sips and I'll try not to like a slap into the mic even though I know you'd probably like it. I'll probably get some more donations for it. Okay. How long have I been going for? 40 minutes. Wow. This time it's flown by. I'll do a few more answers from the post and then we'll go on to taking questions from the chat. I've seen a few people very enthusiastically. That's for our private one on one. Don't you worry about it. So yeah. There's some very enthusiastic questions coming from the chat. I'll do a few more from the post then I'll get to you guys in the chat and then we'll just chill for as long as my voice will allow. All right. Col Schmidt again. Look, I'm even going to give you a like and a heart just for always being so involved in these Q&As.  It was actually, it was Cole who got me to do this Q&A again after what this like eight month absence has been. So you can all thank him in the chat now. I didn't care what you say. I took full credit for this. Okay. Right.  I should have read that before I started talking.  Let's go. Let's go. What are you saying? White pills. White pills. Come on. You can't be a stoic and be pessimistic. Everything is going to be the way it is and you just have to accept it. Things are going to happen. Whether or not you're going to be sad or happy about it is up to you.  When I took the break from YouTube, it's because I got to myself too much. I've sorted out that mindset.  Shit's going to happen. I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to shake my fist. It may or may not change things. It doesn't matter. Who cares?  We're all going to die. And it's the way it's meant to be.  It's not an injustice that one day you're going to die. So stop acting like it and start living your life and just being happy. Hey. Oh, God, guys. I need to show you this. This profile picture. What do you think it is?  And Mises is coat of arms. Wolf. Okay. I thought I'd seen everything. I feel like I'm not going to get to that question today because it's very long. I'll write a reply to that. We're running out of time here on the live stream. So let's just do more tax leave. What are your thoughts on mutualism? Kind of fitting, I suppose. Man, I used to have some real good, like economic slam dunks against mutualism, but I've kind of just forgotten them. There's a lot of issues in regards to valuation of companies.  I haven't talked about mutualism since I was like active on Instagram and I've been blocked from there for like eight months now. It's just all fell out of my head and I didn't read any of these questions before I started the stream today so I couldn't do remind myself. But what I can remember, my fundamental point was always, okay, if a mutualist is actually free market, and again, it's a spectrum of how many mutualists are communists that just don't want to sound too bad. If they are genuinely free market, if they would work with us in a hypothetical world to abolish the government and then actually let the market figure things out, I always said a good mutualist is one who says the rate of profit would be zero without the government because that is them saying, we're going to put our money where our mouth is, you put your money where our mouth is, let's abolish the government and see who's right. I have no problem with those people. They're actual free market people who just believe that in the market the profit incentive is going to be decreased, more co-ops will form, banks will lend out our minimal interest and things like that. I have no issues with those people. If they want to actually have a free market, we have a go at it and we have free market capitalism and free market mutualism competing against each other, well then whatever result wins is the one the market wanted. So brilliant we all win. I have no issues with those people. There's just a lot of mutualists that...  There's too many agarists, I'm going to say I'm a mutualist.  Are you sure you want to be moving in that direction? So I guess there's my answer. There's three different types of mutualists, one that's actually free market, one that really isn't, the one that would put people to death for owning a private business rather than letting the market beat out private businesses that they think that's going to happen because they don't want to be caught admitting to what they really are because they're trying to appease people who hate them. Alright, two more questions including this one. Burn government property, nice. Do you watch J-Redge? If so, what do you think about him? I do not watch J-Redge.  Posadism! Nukes!  I attribute a lot of that to him and his take on politics like his tier lists of different political ideologies. He's very funny. I think he does like post irony if you can call it that very well. I just, oh there's just grinds my gears what the J-Redge revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for political discussion. That's what I think. Agora Supreme Are there any eastern philosophies you fancy?  I know nothing about eastern philosophies to be perfectly honest with you. What I know about, I believe so first of all I don't know if Taoism and Taoism are different or if they're just different pronunciations of the same thing but I think what I know about Taoism is that it's a lot about balance and harmony and I've heard that it can be very interchangeable with Taoism for that reason. There's a lot of talk about balance and Taoism like there's a lot of pleasure to be found in life but there's also a lot of suffering. So if you simply accept the suffering realize that you aren't being hard done by by suffering that's just part of the deal of being a human then it has no power over you anymore you can basically ignore it and just live for the pleasure that you achieve this balance by accepting suffering not trying to defeat it because it's not something to be defeated it's something to be accepted so I think there's a lot of... ah you should learn some Buddhism they overlap heavily with Taoism too I'm not surprised I'll look into it for sure alright so that is going to be it for the post comments let's go over to the chat alright Oliver Oliver Watts is causing up a stir how dare you being so loud oh you've got a question Oli is political or personal philosophy more important? damn how do I answer that one?


We're going to have HTTF members provide a report on our new member-driven initiative called Peer Exchanges. These are small group policy discussions aimed at facilitating collaborative dialogue between public, private and non-profit stakeholders and really taking a deep dive into shared energy policy and planning objectives. So what ended up happening was the Peer Exchanges brought together folks that actually haven't been in the same room together or typically don't engage with one another but yet we're collaboration amongst these groups is needed. And so in our inaugural round we had three Peer Exchanges all focused on transportation and as we saw today we've made a lot of progress in the electricity sector so we still have a long way to go but for ground transportation and transportation more broadly we're not even on the chart. So you can see that there's an increasing emphasis on transportation and you'll see synergies that we've discussed in the last panel and the work being led by the HTTF members in these Peer Exchanges. So we have Alex Sander DeRoad from Maui County who will be talking about the mitigation resilience equity nexus, Riley Saito, he led a Peer Exchange bringing together state and county procurement officers, fleet managers and energy stakeholders who talk about how do we transition fleets to electric vehicles and then lastly Joelle Simon-Kietri she did a recent Peer Exchange looking at benchmarking greenhouse gas emissions and low-carb transportation policies. I'm Alex DeRoad energy commissioner for the county of Maui. So mitigation resilience equity nexus or MRE, not to be confused with meals ready to eat and the slides are flying by here already, a little faster than planned. Is there a way to slow it down? Okay. So first this is our Ragtag crew who attended the MRE nexus Peer Exchange and you can see some of the participants represented at the gathering. I just want to say what value the format of the Peer Exchange is and really allowing us to come together as individuals who are working on the ground on some of these projects, share lessons learned, best practices and put our heads together to brainstorm on solutions to some of our biggest challenges. So I want to really recognize Hawai'i Energy Policy Forum for creating that opportunity and then with the leadership of Ben Sullivan and partnering up with him, we kind of came around this concept of let's apply this notion or this framework of the mitigation resilience equity nexus to electrification of transportation. And I'll get a little bit more into this here, but one of our core values at these gatherings is to be collaborative and not for one person to stand up there and speak while everyone listens. And we were told if we didn't do that, the demon would come and make sure that we do. So we were all very collaborative. The demon then began to dance with one of our experts we were able to bring in Kristen Baja, Urban Sustainability Director's Network. This Peer Exchange was organized on the shoulder of the Hawai'i Congress planning officials. And so it really took advantage of a lot of people who were already there, so trying to minimize carbon footprint, you know, we're there for two events at once. And also having a lot of the experts and stakeholders able to participate in both events and inform one another. So we were able to benefit from the knowledge of Kristen Baja with Urban Sustainability Director's Network as well as the City of War columns where they've been helping to lead nationally on this concept of mitigation, resilience, and equity. It's an emerging framework. And basically, we had some discussions about whether MRE was the right name for it or whether it might be ERM, equity, resilience, mitigation, right? So the whole focus of this is how do we lead with equity in our policymaking, in our projects, et cetera, rather than just leading with mitigation, right? If we start the conversation saying we want to figure out how to reduce carbon and make it more resilient, and then, oh yeah, let's not forget equity and see how we throw that in there, the preferred approach would be let's start with equity, how do we start with equity, that's the priority, and then move to resilience and mitigation within that framework. Okay, so this was not about just sitting there and listening to people, it was very hands-on, interactive, it gets messy when you do that, right, looks something like this, these brainstorm flowcharts, and I have to go faster because I don't have much time. But one of the key concepts here, along with just this notion of equity, is the concept of targeted universalism, and that's looking at, rather than focusing on trying to benefit the greatest number of people, how about focusing on starting with those who have the most need, right, who are historically in a more disadvantaged situation, start there, and then scale that up to being able to impact more people. So targeted universalism, some of the outcomes of our brainstorming, we're looking at community resilience hubs, changing state procurement rules around rental vehicles, for example, we've been listening to allow state and county employees to rent electric vehicles when we're on county or state business, improving walkability around high-traffic corridors, and allowing county fleets to be used by third-party partners, and this is something that I know Riley's very passionate about. For example, when our county fleet vehicles are not being used, could they be used by an Uber driver or a Lyft driver? Okay, I encourage you to go to the HEPF newsletter, they have a very good synopsis of this workshop if you want to get more of the details. I will say that, just in closing, that this forum really allows us, as the counties, the state, non-profits, and private sector entities, to get together and have these really critical brainstorming gatherings. It allows us to learn from what each of us is doing in our respective counties or municipalities and creates a lot of benefit, so thank you again and thank you for listening. Okay, so I'm just going to reach where do I point? Just around the side, on the side. There you go. Alright, so I'll just skip that. Okay, so this background, through leading up to the peer exchange, we knew that we had the third-party financing bill going through a legislature, and it was being, you know, this is like a year ago, and pretty positive in its path. So in preparation, you know, lots of times policy or statutes get enacted, and then it takes about three years to actually do something. So, rather than having that approach to accelerate the, kind of, clear the path, we had roadmaped out, assuming the enactment of the HRS-13642. And in the meantime, Willopono and State Energy Office and myself worked on the Rocky Mountain Institute Mobility Innovation Lab Workshop, which would be a framework in which the HRS could be implemented and what needed to be done to implement it. Then in the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum Actual Peer Exchange, it was to take the pull-throughs or takeaways from the Rocky Mountain Institute to actually then drill down closer to actual implementation and who and the people involved needed to be those involved with actual implementation of transformation of government vehicles to be zero emission. So that's the group that attended Rocky Mountain Institute. It's State Energy Office, Willopono, a couple of investors, DAGs, DOT. And so it went through four or five days, came out with the various, you know, outlining the goals and efforts of State and County Mobility Requirements and a stress mobility, not transportation, to create the correct framework of moving people, products, or services from point A to point B to where it needs to be. So transportation implies people in vehicles, but it's broader than that, the mobility of what we're targeting. So, you know, create benchmarks, explore opportunities in our intergovernmental agency cooperation, collaboration, elevate the knowledge base for all with all. Explore advanced joint procurement language practices in the existing 103D procurement statute along with the new HRS 3642. So then within the peer exchange is bringing people that normally don't even know each other, but they work for the same government, same department. So it's to listen, learn, and share. Clarity on navigating government procurement process. Hear from the fleet of vehicle owners or managers from the government agencies. And discuss how to advance clean mobility within government agencies. Allow us to hear the various opinions, thoughts, ideas, not challenge them. And then establish next steps, agree upon next steps on where to go, how to get there, how to benchmark them. Then, and this is the stage we're in right now, to maintain the connection, to maintain that relationship, that collaboration, that knowledge base sharing with each other. So here's a list. I won't necessarily go through it except one of the side things is in the support, the traffic demand management, you know, because of all of this, if we share vehicles, we have less vehicles, less need for parking. The vehicles that are there, they're clean and they're more productive. There's more vehicle, clean vehicle miles that are being provided. Then on the mobility hub in Hawaii County, we've been approaching this from an equity lens. That we are focusing on how to lift up and the quality of life, accessibility to mobility, the type of mobility with the 48% Alice population on our island. That of which near 40% have to travel more than 50 miles to work. So that is a lens of focus where we're taking our analysis. We've also, there's a bunch of people on the outer circle. And in the inner circle is our topics or subjects that need to be addressed or discussed. There's our transportation in Hawaii. There's about 80 people in that network. So with the next steps from the peer exchange is the fleet analysis, the vehicle availability where Dave's going to give us driverless cars and fueling charging infrastructure and the actual cost saving model of either purchase lease or HRS 3641. The actual next step is either issues RFIs and or RFPs. Robin has fired off the first shot with his RFP and all for services contracts. And that's due I think January 14. But there are other considerations that we're going through as far as developing RFI. I'll just add before we move on that what Riley was sharing about Alice acid limited income constrained and employed is a much broader issue that we need to tackle in this state. Rather than just looking at the below poverty level. So we're talking about 48% across our state that our asset limited income constrained and employed, including those under poverty level. And these peer exchanges really allow us to share our best practices. So this concept of the Alice report came to the other counties from Seeding County Honolulu or County of Hawaii was leading it. Learning about best practices, whether it's in our county council, for example, having recently created a climate resilient climate action and resilience committee, how other counties might be able to model that or looking at the work Seeding County Honolulu did on climate change, sustainability and resilience office and how we might model that. So really sharing these best practices has been a tremendous value including these peer exchanges. Okay. So I'm Joel Simone Pietre. So I had the third and perhaps largest greenhouse gas peer exchange. It was nearly 40 people. And so Lake was touched on with the keynote speakers when we got started today. But there is a fair amount of policy outside the state that actually handles the nexus between climate transportation and energy goals. And so what we did is unpack that and take a look at four different examples and take a look at what would and would not be applicable or desirable in Hawaii.  And I'm just plan to go until I am told I'm out of time. Okay. So starting off with the actual results and outcomes. Collectively, there was, we actually did some voting in the two days of event at the peer exchange and at the summit that it was in conjunction with. And then also had some discussion. And so we reviewed all the notes and pulled that together into some policy recommendations. So three recommendations for actual legislation and then two recommendations for administrative action. And so the first one is actually a request from Jennifer Potter at the PUC to clarify the statutory requirements to consider greenhouse gas impacts. It's actually not just in that statute. There's a requirement to consider greenhouse gas impacts in several statutory and regulatory, you know, policies across the state, but they are very loosely defined. Usually not much more than just that sentence fragment. And the second one is in terms of actual sort of public-private partnerships and helping to facilitate actual action. There's a recommendation to expand HTDC's authority to be able to match federal research grants and contracts for climate action, aviation sustainability, and renewable energy. Right now they're restricted only to small business innovation research, which is a very specific program, and to Office of Naval Research, and they can't actually provide that funding for any other federal, much matching funds for any other federal program. The third one is to establish a sustainable aviation task force to put together a flight plan for how the state will help the international airlines serving Hawaii meet the international United Nations obligations under Corsi or the carbon offset and reduction scheme for international aviation. On the administrative side, we spent a fair amount of time looking at California, Oregon, and British and international low carbon fuel standards and recommending that the state administration consider joining the Pacific Coast Collaborative, which is how those states on the US West Coast, or the North American West Coast, actually harmonize their transportation and greenhouse gas policy. And then consider a reciprocity memorandum with California Air Resources Board to have some way for Hawaii to opt into the low carbon fuel standard without actually going to adopt some really complicated legislation. So I'm going to blow pass through the why because we've already covered that. And these are the two court cases that were final decisions by a state agency, the Pia Public Utilities Commission, and then a county decision were overturned because of a failure to properly consider greenhouse gas impacts, as well as other things. And so this is part of the reason why we had this pure exchange. You've seen this pie chart before. One thing I would like to point out that we learned from the greenhouse gas life cycle analysis is that going forward, I strongly recommend that we no longer lump together light passenger vehicle and heavy transportation in the same category under ground transportation. Ground transportation is an umbrella term, but you're talking about very different purposes of that transportation. So evaluating an 18-wheel tractor trailer that's carrying cargo on the same vehicle miles traveled as a light passenger vehicle is just not appropriate, and you end up having significant unintended consequences. They also have extremely different carbon life cycle performance when it comes to greenhouse gas emissions. All right, so what we looked at. I put greenhouse gas policy into three bins. The one on the left is environmental impact statements. The one in the middle is carbon tax and cap and trade. Both of these are in effect in Hawaii today. The third category that we did the deep dive on is transportation fuel mandates. And within transportation fuel mandates, we looked at international, national, and also state. Some of the similarities to compare and contrast some of these is that the point of obligation is different. A transportation fuel mandate point of obligation is usually on a fuel blender and distributor. What's also different about it is the third category, these transportation fuel mandates, they are all set up as market-based measures. They're not a tax. It's not taking money from the private sector or the public or the general public, transferring it to the state, and then it goes into a general fund or a special fund and it's distributed from there. They're market-based measures so that the private sector and the general public do the cost-benefit analysis to determine what the highest and best way to address the greenhouse gas life cycle emissions reduction is desired, how to do that most cost-effectively. So here's the U.S. federal version. This is the renewable fuel standard. It's categorical and it basically values fuel based on the greenhouse gas life cycle performance. There's three different categories. And how a life cycle analysis is done is, a life cycle basically is three different parts. What you make a fuel out of or what you make an energy component out of, how you actually convert it into fuel or an energy form, and then it's end use. And this last part, the end use is why when we actually did our breakout groups and our case studies and actually looked at the four different end uses, air, marine, light ground, and heavy ground, is why we're making the recommendation to not lump those together going forward. I want to thank all of you for attending our annual briefing and to everyone who made this event possible. The members, the speakers, our graduate students, Dallas, Sarah, and Nina. Nina just congratulated but she still came out and helped us out today. And then our administrative support staff and as well as those at the capitals. So thank you all. We look forward to seeing you again next year. And in the meantime, we want to let you know to check out our website. We have a bunch of resources, legislative and docket resources. And we also have the energy events calendar where we compile all the different energy events going on in Hawaii. And so there's the State Climate Conference in January 13th and 14th at the East West Center. Absolutely invite you to join us there as well. A recording of the annual briefing will be available on our website. So thank you to Think Tech Hawaii for coming and recording today's briefing. And we also have other energy shows on our website as well.