om I think it's a game of thrones, but it's about the veil When you were said, I think it's a game of thrones. It sounded like a it's um, it's from this book I think it's called a game of thrones. Have you heard of this oprah's book club?  Come on Yeah, that's beautiful Well, and I think like character voice, you know that they do When you just like, oh, I love these characters so much like that you don't even think about like How like incredible it is that they could write People that don't exist in a way that you immediately knew them and felt that you knew them And they were like distinct people that live rent free in your head that like that's hard And yet you read this and you're like, oh, this is a good character Not that like this is incredible writing because it made me believe this character exists.  She's amazing Yeah, it does and I do feel like right reading hob is more of a gut punch than any of the like of the three Yeah, like when you talk about how much emotionally it must take out of her to read it That's why it also takes so much out emotionally out of you to or when we said to write it for her It would be hard that for us to read it It takes your whole soul Yeah, like uh, probably everything's like I think about rereading and then I'm like, do I really need to do this to myself right now? How much of a masochist am I?   You know all this could be so much easier if you made the right decision and when I heard that I was just like blown away Because it wasn't like corny when she said it like I think she I mean she did she meant it And it's like wow, she's really a person or fits is really a person in her brain It's crazy. Well, I think it's the fact that I mean you have to I don't know like to juggle in your head both like I'm a storyteller and I must Use my characters as tools to like perform story for me in the ways that I need them to While also being wholly convinced that these are humans that you have to be like, well, what would he do? Well, what would she do? What would how would they feel? What would they say? What do they feel? What do they say? um and to like try to juggle like Organically what this character would think and feel and where you're like, I need this scene to achieve this thing so It it's hard and the fact that they do it so well like I think as much as we praise them It is even myself. I'm just like, I know I take for granted how good they are at this. That's hard Yeah, especially when I try to write my own stuff being inspired so much by them and I'm like, uh I mean it is like putting states on for the first time and being like, oh, I fell down immediately I stating it's not easy Very easy to become paralyzed um with just Seeing what your favorite authors can do and then what you can't do Yeah, and I mean, I think uh treating your or thinking sincerely about your characters as a yeah What makes her characters and her? her books Feel so sincere. Yeah, I agree Like I don't know that hurts Abercrombie to hurt his characters And I don't know that it hurt Martin to hurt his character. I meant I imagine uh, Martin did say that he felt emotionally like impacted by Like his care like basically was just saying through the fact that like, you know, it's not free Like this does bother me a lot uh to do these things because I love these characters so much um So I think it maybe affects him a little bit. I could see Abercrombie just going Oh, I know it doesn't because like I asked him about a specific thing that he did in one of his books um that is very spoilery so I won't say and like um, I was like Like it's so mean to do that and couldn't you have like not done that and he was like Why like it clearly affected you.  So like that's not to say he He doesn't didn't sincerely also feel something and that's he's not the kind of person That would be like it broke me to write that Yeah, but Yeah, he's definitely not that guy He says that they're tools, but like again, it's I think he likes being kind of flippant and glib Yeah, I mean, I won't lie like if that is the case that would make it a little less Great, but also I guess arguably more impressive that he makes them feel so fully fleshed out if you really don't think of them as people like Well Yeah, there's definitely a piece of though It's like if you don't see them like that, why should I right?  So I mean, I think there's a part of Abercrombie that I don't want to make this sound like a value judgment But he is more disciplined than George R. R. Martin and how he writes and Like he even like used that word himself when not in comparison George R. Martin But just in terms of like when I specifically asked why isn't already a POV like Is it like was there a reason not like hey, why isn't she but just like Is there a reason that she wasn't like that from storytelling that you were like this would mess it up if she was That's when he was like, nope. I just didn't think of making her a POV But after he gave the like ha like answer He was like I basically feel like if you've chosen to tell this story And you choose your povs that you should stick with those povs because otherwise whose story is this And that like I have this is my trilogy And I've chosen these to be my eyes on it and they are telling this story and I can't like Like go wild. It's just like adding people in and adding plot threads and things going like you have to like Be yeah I'm not sure about it And that's why he does write a trilogy all in one draft has his POV is like Goes back and make sure that his clues all lead up to where it ends and like I think I don't know I feel like the end product can be so callous and disciplined Because he allowed himself the time to like kind of go through stuff and feel things out and feel What this character would do and how they would feel and is this true and he could feel all the feeling things And then the edit is like you are totally like tools in a toolbox callous where you're just like Okay, what doesn't go what goes what stays like what am I cutting? What doesn't achieve anything? So I think he can be They are tools in a toolbox at the end of the day And I need to have the discipline to treat them that way and kill my darlings because like I wrote a lot of stuff And everything I wrote is brilliant because I'm brilliant But also it's not so like what do I need to cut and so I think he's very like Okay, like you have to be realistic Not all of this is good So in that sense, I think he forces himself to regard them that way Yeah, that's fair and it's a measured approach and probably why he's able to finish things wrap things up be definitive Yeah, I'd agree got to cut it off before you're wallowing an emotion If you believe anything Abercrombie says that's on you Yeah Um Dairy says do you guys feel low key offended by comments like that from authors that are so clearly using Graham many povs guarding methods as a negative reference I couldn't feel offended because I created that like when I asked Abercrombie that I was like Oh, I didn't ask him that but I think When he said that he was being disciplined about how many povs he would have I was like because otherwise You end up with piece for crows and he was like I will not comment I um I've read melasin That's my answer. So pov count doesn't matter. There's like a thousand povs in melasin. So It is also like, you know, each storyteller has the right to be as Yes all over the place or as disciplined as there's also a huge difference between a character driven narrative to a character focused narrative Abercrombie is a character focused narrative. George is somewhere in between hob is clearly a character focused Sorry It would be Abercrombie and hob if a character focused and driven for martin. So they had melasin with Hundreds or maybe a thousand povs is definitely character focused. Uh, and that's a whole another can of worms to get in what Well, what what those mean for the narrative structure you pick I mean, I love shippers. So Yeah, I'm glad He better I mean, I yeah, I didn't mean the whole tools in his toolbox. I think I mean, he didn't say that in the interview with me but I mean this is where also like the we coming back to like Which of the others interested in like war and secrets to the world or whatever like that's not Abercrombie is like it's just not what he's thinking and so I don't know what my question was but we were just talking about like all the times that he uses Um previous characters and scenes where like they just pop up and like that's why I always say you should read it in order Because like a character will just like pop up and you don't need to know Who they are because it wasn't really important to the story But if you do know then it's cool and it adds a layer to that scene Yeah, um and the way he talked about it was just like, yeah Well, I could be dumb not to do that because like I could have a scene in a tavern This is seen in a tavern or I could randomly throw in this character from a previous book So it just immediately makes it more interesting. So why wouldn't I do that? Like it's very like calculated and callous when he puts it that way, but also I'm like, yeah And it works. It definitely works for him too I think daniel has a good point. He says uh with the song advice fire a lot of the chrism come from book Six not being out people trying to find reasons to blame people wouldn't care about pov bloat If there was a book every four years and that is great I totally agree with that. I mean, there's also like chicken or the egg So like maybe we would have a book sooner if we didn't have pov bloat because we'd have a disciplined titer like yeah But would it be the same story? No, because a lot of people hate area hota and arianne's pov But as we found, you know, that was extraordinarily important for learning more about the prince of doran and And everything doran's gonna have involved with uh the next dance dragons And like we mean we talked about this in a song of ice and fire live the idea that you would force an author to Use a different authors writing approach because it's faster or because it's somehow better like no like as much as I was just like Well, you know abracame super disciplined, but at the same time, like that's what works for him Like either I don't know if he's making himself to that or that's just how he is But like that's clearly like that's how he does it.  It's like that's just like not how he works That's not how art works. Um, and you know, that's probably what abracame probably won't write a thousand page epic Because that's not how he works. Uh, you know, I'm the first small trilogy is a little longer But even then they weren't arguably he wrote a thousand page epic if you think of the first Like one book. Sure. Yep 100 and he did and he did right? That's how he wrote it. So Also, George does pay stuff off phrase seem auxiliary books one and two and then the red wedding happened Yes, and there's still a really big piece in a dance with dragons as well. We can't see yet Yeah, it's a it's the whole thing of like even just about a single book I said like discussing a book as you go in a lot of ways is kind of silly Which I mean again, we also talked about this is that like the reason that you have faith That this will get paid off is because they have previously like You know pulled through and it is valid and fair if this is like a first time author and this is your first time through a series when you're like So far, this seems pretty pointless and you're like, maybe you're gonna prove me wrong and maybe this is going to You know, you're gonna pay it off and this is actually going somewhere But until they've actually done it you're just going on faith and georgia r martin has proved in the past that like If you are patient with him, he does pay things off So there's reason to believe that he if something seems pointless there's probably a reason He's given you a reason to have trust in that but It's a leap of faith the first time like when you pick up the late itself You're like this seems to be going nowhere by now like any abracame book I'd pick up I'd be like I fully trust you wherever this even if it seems like it's going nowhere. I'm sure you know where this is going But the first time you're like, I don't know. Is this going somewhere? Yeah, totally So I think like if people initially with song of ice and fire would have had those concerns I'd be like that's valid but at this point You're like, okay. You don't have the next book But like do you really think that he's not gonna pay anything off like well the other big thing is people binge the first three and now are waiting and obviously it's a long wait. I mean that that's fair, but Reading something as it releases and binging are totally different experiences and people don't put enough Weight into that whenever they're reviewing a series like dark tower as a binge is awesome If I'd waited for each book I probably would have been a little bit upset with some of the releases But I didn't have to and I said that my review and I loved it. I thought was awesome I mean, there's also like pros. I mean, it's not always better to binge sometimes like it's better Especially there's like some books that have spent a lot of time catching you like reminding you of what happened before And if you're binging it, you're like, I freaking know. I just read the previous one Hobb and uh, actually rocky rock. Yo had a lot of repetition in book three in my opinion Which isn't a bad thing. I even said them review. I said objectively. This is not a bad thing to do You should do this It's just the sign Others you can just have a one pager and be like previously on the story thus far Exactly. Yeah, um Robin hobb does do that Robin hobb recaps a lot of stuff in the later books Which I'm sure reading them as you went. It was probably very much appreciated, but binging it. I'd be like Come on Let's move it, you know, but I never docked a point. I never went. Oh, this is repetitious Uh, because there are books that are super repetitious But there's so there's a specific situation where like it was definitely a kind of I was talking to somebody about this duology and like they just read the first book in that duology And they finished it and they felt exactly the same way that I did about it and it was not a good way Like it was like this ending like what the fuck But so like I was like, okay, but the second one is very very good. Um, and they're like, I'm not ready to like And I was like, yeah, I read them as they came out So I had a year to like forgive the author for doing that and being like, okay made my piece I will read the second book.  I was that way too. I had a year to cool off and they'll be like, okay Now let's do it Yeah, I definitely uh, recap. Do you mean through dialogue or do you mean a forge? Uh, yeah, she she means a forward, right, liana Well, that's what I meant, but you before we were talking about authors that just like sprinkle in like a lot of characters Saying things that are like and of course what happened last week as you and I recall but I will say it anyway Yeah Yeah, I know I just read it. Yeah which isn't like It's not the worst thing, but I like a long leash as a reader personally yeah, and again like there's um there's also More organic ways of reminding people what happened and then there's very blunt like remember when this happened Just making sure like you can Yeah, I feel like there's better. There are ways of Reminding even within the same book There's sometimes, you know books that like repeat information because you're like I really want to make sure you got that because that's important for the end Um within the same book and like again, there's ways of doing it where like it just it feels natural Then like yes, it was a reminder and I am noticing that you're bringing this up So it's probably important, but it doesn't feel like a super unnatural either info dump or like why are they talking like this? Nobody talks like this. They're talking like this to tell me a specific thing. Please stop it Yeah, I um that was one of the thing with sanderson books Exactly like this. Hello, my brother. So the king. How have you been since we valiantly defended the castle? Yeah, that is not what you should do. I almost start. I want to write that like ironically I mean, I feel like Abercrombie would at some point put in something like that just as a commentary just to be I mean, there's a short story in red country that is entirely him just being a Nargis smartass There's no point to that short story other than just to be like Yeah, I mean I would um I liked that sharp ends was like a bunch of like off cuts Just like little just little things that are like in the world And I mean Duncan egg is a bit like that, but it's like a different era Yeah For both robin hob and for a majority of our and I would thoroughly enjoy something like sharp ends That would just be like some one-off bits of like maybe a character that you I mean, I arguably Abercrombie bro zone really did write prequels for Logan and Glock to in sharp ends because there are stories about them from before the times of first law, but I like the like just dipping in and seeing like that's not enough to tell a whole book And there's no reason to include any of those stories in a full book But they were interesting little side things that like fleshed out the world or like we're just cool little excursions So like I would totally love to read something like that for realm of the elderlings or for song by some fire Yeah, and like realm of the elderlings has the novellas, but I mean, I guess the novellas kind of work like that Like they they um, they're kind of like peaks. I guess, um Whereas Duncan egg is like really its own series in a way like it's serial, right? And again, it's a different era. So like seeing one-off stories like sharp ends is like pretty Contemporaneous with the books that we have. So like if you had these one-off like Yeah, or story about hot pie And just like a day that he was having Or give me Arthur Dane That'd be into more prequel territory. I'm fine with it. Just give me Arthur I just love the sort of but I mean since we did the you know, sort of get these quick Prequel type glimpses into Glockta and Logan like what would be some moments that get alluded to because like the things that we get for Glockta and Logan and again, no spoilers But they are specific moments in their lives that we had heard about in first law and so the short story is like, okay So here is it happening. Um, so if they're if you had the opportunity to have like sharp ends But song by some fire edition What like mentioned thing for like character that's like in the series Would you want to see like that actually happened in a short story? Yeah I mean, there's so many things in a song by some fire. That's like one of the The best things about it because there's so many characters that have like little histories given but like I would die for I'm trying to think like of a relevant now character. Like honestly, Renly like Renly Like after book one, but before we see him in clash or I feel like really fun To be similar to the type of thing we got in sharp ends in terms of like what pieces of their past we saw if we actually saw Jamie um Coming knighted Not getting knighted, but when he does his king's laying Yeah, how that actually went down instead of everybody's idea of how that went down. Yeah, you know Yeah, and he kind of explains it, right? Um, and it that's one of the fun things about like histories that depending on who's telling it It depends on who's the good guy and bad guy and in Jamie's story. He's the good guy Um, oh god, and it's so important Yeah, be sweet. Here is the song of ice and fire jimmy voice. I haven't heard that almost all night when you're just like Oh I mean when you do this, so you just think about how much it parallels with brian Oh Another reread Or um for uh, jorah, some of this stuff from his past Yeah, jorah would be interesting bar baristan could be cool too. Uh, if he did dusk and dale, uh, whenever you save aries when he shouldn't have When he should have just let him die Or um, Davos the smuggler Yeah, Davos the smuggler that'll probably be a tv show one day Is it gonna be called that uh melisange when she was sold into slavery that could be interesting Uh, how about how about robert ned out on the road like a buddy? Oh Oh god Honestly like my first what the first thing i was gonna say was anything to do with the iron islands because there's so much that gets Like you don't see that much of it in the books Mostly what you know about it is like people mentioning things that happened Like show me all of it whole sharp ends that is just iron islands stuff Yeah, it could be pretty brutal too because they're past like maybe how they organized their rebellion Um, whenever the war um, whenever um robert's rebellion was going down whenever they rebelled right after that would be really cool How about the reigns of castamere as a story how about that Like tywin like seeing tywin become tywin. Oh man It's like the darth vader an origin story. I like how this is all just bear This is all basis for fanfic by the way like i'm sure if we google it There's probably all these stories written by something that's the thing sharp ends isn't fanfic. It's i know He wrote his own fan. It's awesome I know it's awesome Yeah, you could do that whole that could be a not a novel like you could easily get a syncing novel it almost would be like A whole novel i don't know i feel like it'd be too much like a A disappointing prequel because you know where this is going you know the end point But a novella where you're just like just a glimpse of like this one pivotal moment. Well, that's true Well, also if you give the pov of brain and stark you would answer a lot of questions I mean honestly if you did a novella about regar then That would no longer be such a mystery That'd be sick But at the same time that's when avagrombie is right if you did that you would no longer be interesting You could also do it through darth ordain's pov though since he was at the tower. I see now we're getting this That's where like that he's not wrong like the reason that we're so fascinated by it is because we don't know If we get that answered we will cease to care Yep, that's why there's uh, there's ink spilled on the page When it comes to dunk and eggs and uh in the world of ice and fire book Which is such a good move by george. Have you ever heard that story? Okay, so in the world of ice and fire, there's a section that covers eggs Rule as king and dunk is in his hand. I've missed you Well, this I thought I thought this is hilarious So george wanted because it's written by maester He wanted to literally spill ink on the page and sell the book that way Like with an ink blotch And they were like george if we do that people will return the book because they think it'll have a defect and he was like But I wanted and they were like No, you can write that this page was destroyed in translation So they had to stick with that but george the madman Wanted to print a page in a 40 dollar book with an ink stain on it. I just thought it was just So creative there are like mixed media books where they do that kind of thing But if your whole book hasn't been mixed media and you just do that on the last page like People would not think that it's such a cool play on the narrative or I'm sorry the narrator of it Like who who is writing the history like it's so cool And I think that's the thing that Abercrombie is not this is not a thing he shares with them both robin hop and george r martin Not just in terms of like oh picking your pov like all three of them are good at that But like who is telling the story which is a different question from whose pov or it Like the fact that fit is telling the story. It's not just from his perspective He is telling the story from his past and saying this is what happened to me That like and throughout a song rise and fire like who is telling the story is a big theme Yeah, and I think that that's a question that as readers we should ask ourselves more often when we're reading Who lives who dies who tells your story? Yeah, it's such a dorge thing But I don't want it I mean, I I mean, I guess I would go so far as to say that both robin hop and george r martin are a little more sincere In their writing than ever grumpy Yeah, maybe george to a fault Yeah, I mean it's obviously comes off as a very different the narrative doesn't feel sincere the way robin hops does but Like I feel like they both believe in their own worlds a lot more than ever grumpy does ever grumpy is like I can do some interesting things in this world that I have created not like I don't I don't think he regards that as a living breathing in world the way that robin hop and george r martin regard their worlds Yeah, and maybe it's because uh I think abracadabra is as much more of a commentary And it's a lot more interested in like I mean, I think I don't know I think he genuinely like is into the character stories that he's telling But he is not interested really in world building like that was he's not and it's not just like a more thing Just world but he does have really cool world building though because of the the aging of the world like actually But again, it's more of like a I don't think it's realistic for a world to stay the same And what would it do to my characters for the world to progress? I'm interested in what it does to people to see how they change because like the economy changed because industry changed because magic changed What would that do to my characters like that's the only the only thing he's interested in And I mean almost a magic is like what would magic do to my characters like he doesn't really care about like What if I developed this magical system in this world that worked this way and the mystery of that? No, but what if there was magic that did this thing and how would that affect my characters? Yeah, and those are uh, actually pretty important questions to ask switching of ages and how they impact people Um, like eventually we will get into an age of post scarcity where Everyone kind of just exists and that's uh That's a good one for maybe sci-fi jota. I was gonna say have you read scythe by neil shesterman? I have not but my my wife has and she enjoyed it a lot That's kind of what that's about at least the first book she enjoyed the first book a lot I enjoy the first book and I think the second one is better is like I thought the first one was like Oh, that was good and I was like definitely gonna read the next one and then thunder had also Oh, that was so good Maybe I should give a shot I mean, it's that concept is that We solved death death.  So that's why he's my number one Um, because like I mostly also like that's the thing that usually bothers me. That's why I can't Be enamored of books like standard brandon sanderson's and again, that's not a lot of sincerely not a value judgment like if you are interested in like Magic systems and just like that for itself and like worlds and that for itself I I mean, I'm really happy for you. I'm not like I care about like seeing People put in different environments and what that how they react to that and that's why I love nk jemisin I love abber crombie. I love authors that are like that's the question They're asking and that's why most of the time high magic worlds also don't work for me Because I feel like you have not thought through the butterfly effect of even the smallest change in your natural world Which is what magic is is a change to like the physics of your world Basically, and you have not thought through how humans as a collective and as an individual would react to This their world being different like if you change one thing Everything is different and they do big magics and 50 different kinds of big magic And I'm like you have not thought through how humans would react to this and it shows yeah Yeah, there's a lot more I mean it's just another piece of the equation that you have to account for and it's already hard enough to write So kudos to people who do take that plunge And I mean having higher magic and still doing that which I even though abber crombie is my favorite It is more impressive that robin hob and joy dora martin can have attention on lower magic world building and the characters Yeah, and I think specifically with the song as far the fact that magics coming back in Allows him to answer those questions about how the general folk would feel about this because even when we hear about You know rumors of dragons like many people are like Okay, sure There's even some people who don't believe they even they ever existed They even though they're you know, it was only about a hundred years prior. I think the last dragons die out Or maybe no, maybe it's 500 years. I can't remember But I think he gets to play with it a little bit more because it's reintroducing it slowly Um, and he does a pretty good job with it Yeah, but I just I mean I guess of the three That arguably the most impressive is I mean like we talked about for the dora dora martin's like That's why he can write a history of his world that like That he's done all of that work with how his magic works how the religions work how The history works how everything like that works and also Pay attention to the individual characters in his world and how they feel about it And how they think about it and make them feel like real people as they navigate this whole world like I don't know like the To be spinning so many plates Is impressive it is many hats many many hats And like hob like next best of that So I mean, I haven't finished the realm of the elderlings but like next in terms of like Do paying almost equal attention to the history and lore and building out of that and that's a mystery into itself Not just how does this affect my characters? But like I'm just purely interested in like what is this magic thing? How does it work? Where did it come from? Who are these magical things from before? What is the history of that? Um, like and also obviously the deep dive into like fits and all the characters and like how they feel Yeah, and then lost knowledge is a very natural thing through history and I really like the robin hop plays with that I mean abrogami mostly just cheats with that He's like, uh, it's no lost no one knows so I mean like I asked him uh So like the names of the northmen, you know, they're all kind of like weird names and like we learn Um that they are all like names that come from they it's not like a given name at birth It's like something you did or a nickname it's given to you and like Logan says at one point Oh, that's a naming wound that they probably name you after that And like he's called Logan nine fingers because he's missing a finger and Like you have the dog man in red three trees and you have stranger come knocking and you have like all these Bizarre names and some of them we get back stories for like we do learn shivers backstory. Um, we learn Um, we know Logan nine fingers story. Um, but for most of them we don't Um, and I was like, do you have like even if you never wrote it in the book Like do you have in your mind when you wrote those names some back stories for those names and he was like, no I just thought they sounded cool Well then Moving on That's so funny I think for specifically stranger come knocking He was saying that like he really it was a some day where like Someone came knocking like literally that's what made him think of it.  I don't know. I feel like people have always called me that Or they changed the story over time. I mean that's what happens too.  It's just like, huh, what? Yeah, you don't even sure how you could pair those together Someone I know is called biscuit And I mean that's the thing of like nicknames like they kind of do come Weirdly and organically sometimes and I like that he didn't have like a strict naming convention with it either Like Logan is Logan like that's his given name, but he's called Logan nine fingers or the bloody nine Um, and then you have like red three trees I would imagine red is his name and then three trees is like the nickname But others like dog man You just call him dog man shivers.   We did backyard wrestling.  And we couldn't think of a name for our friend Ben And uh, we were at dinner with our other friend's dad and he got butter on his knuckles And he goes, oh, I got some butter on my knuckle. Oops. And we just said butter knuckle and that was his name Like that's perfect. Ben. You're now butter knuckle And everyone in high school called him butter knuckle. It was so it made no sense Like it had no bearing, you know, that's how flighty Names are Do you watch Seinfeld? Yes, of course.   George is the man Given name the earned name People always called me the because they knew one day I'd have a follow-up to that I Mean I will say it is sometimes jarring to me in ha books. The names are sometimes very fantasy names and sometimes they just feel so Modern like kyle You got a name named kyle Kyle have you heard george carlins? Stand up about boys names. Oh my goodness You should you should listen to it. I'm not going to do a disservice by quoting it But he shits on the name kyle pretty hard and it's really maybe that's what inspired hob to name a character like it might have been kyle, you know kyle It's just the way he says it. It's so funny It just like I mean like Fitz chivalry farce here and then kyle What are we doing? It's like kyle tom and tucker. These are not real names these What happened to viney tom though that that checks out to me as a fantasy name kyle Yeah, did you see there was like a meme that was like about how some people cannot be cast in period pieces Because you just have a face that looks like it knows about social media and technology But like you just look modern like your face knows the future and I think that's a name like that like kyle I'm like that's no you can't name somebody that's a name that like goes to high school I Mean but at least it was fantasy version of greg kyle is just kyle. How did you get the name jimmy nuts? That's a long story It's a long long story And by long story, I mean my real name is very close to that Unfortunately, so I just shortened it I was about to say I didn't think it was a long story It's not actually I don't know what I doxed myself so Oh miles of names. Yeah. A lot of names are really random that they're Keyboard smashes are too calm. Yeah, still waters one of my favorite names. I don't know why but I've always liked that name Well, like as as as cool as I thought whiskey jack was I was like this the one of these is not like the others Yeah, it stands out. What is that one? And he is the kyle What is this one? It's like they plop down like a redneck in the middle of the universe like with that It sounds like something from a western or a pirate thing or like dujec one arm. That's a name like anamander rake That's a naming name. That's a badass.  I love the name tovore That's like a name. I would like to name a kid of mine. I'd love the name tovore so much I have to say like My one of my favorite like books for names and it's not a favorite book is dune I love the and not just like names Okay, not fall But not just people names, but like the words for things and the names like there's so much naming names that like I want to find excuses to say them like you can talk about the book without saying those words But I will choose to say them or it's just like I don't actually have a point to make but I just wanted to say Yeah, or like quiz that's how to rack like that's just like Oh, what even is that? Like I don't have anything to say about it, but I want to say it Yeah, dune, uh, you know in those older authors took a lot of pride in their naming conventions like Stephen donelson was very big into latin Like I don't think he like loves latin, but he dug into latin To get names and for I think there's also um I appreciate a Tolkien-esque appreciation of purely the sound of language Which isn't the same as like wordplay or being good at prose. It's just like the shape of the word is beautiful so like Quiz that's how to rack like that isn't that's not like good wordplay That's not good prose, but like you've put together something that sounds like a heck of a thing Yeah And I feel like I I feel like that gets mocked, you know fantasy for having like weird names that are unpronounceable But I feel like there are authors that really do pay attention to just like The sound of a thing and then also having a cohesive sound where like this all feels like A different world that isn't necessarily. Oh, okay. So everything sounds german. All right, but like You can invent your own sound and have it sound cohesively like yes Yeah, yeah, tad Williams does it tad tad Williams is you know, we talk about like big world We kind of talk about like tolkien to george, but like tad Build his own language. I mean he he really went the route and it's really good like it's Really good and he he has his own sounds apparently it's it's kind of derived from finish Um, but I I don't mean it's again just like with like storytelling like you're not creating in a vacuum Like obviously you're gonna be drawing from existing language But speaking of names though, like I do think this is another strong shoot of all three authors that like For the most part though, like there's a sense of place in geography and status that comes from names And it's again a missed opportunity for a lot of books where they're just like a name it fantasy stuff Whereas like you can really make a world feel lived in like that when you go to where denaries is all the names They all sound like made-up things like all of the things and well, you know Song of my Sapphire sound made up But like they it's a very different flavor of made-up where she is that feels cohesively like as part of that area Versus like where you are in westeros and even in the north like how things the names like without you ever having to info dump anything You're making your world feel real Yeah, the uh In marine all the names, you know his dar All that stuff it sounds so good Um, and it does it sticks out because it's unique and that's part of like probably because of dune, right? Like dune did do that very very well So, but I mean I think hob and avocomby also take that same opportunity like as much as I made fun of kyle I mean like hob does like the names of the different parts of the world the different like echelons of society like Yeah, like she uses names also of places and of people also the naming convention of like after like a trait right like Regal, you know, I it's when I first read i'll be honest. I was kind of like really like I mean when you tell people the main characters fits chivalry farce or you're like Yeah, no, I When I first started reading a sad spirit, I was a little put off, but then by the end I was like I like it Shrewd king shrewd Yeah, I mean there's a lot of things hob does and I know we me and mar talked about last night We're like on paper if you're just like That you hear this is the thing that's in this book or that this is going to be like talking to animals talking ships They're named after traits like patience and verity You're just like that sounds like the dumbest thing ever Do you not want to read that? But like hob at this point you could tell me she was going to be writing about talking baking soda and I'd be like All right. I'm sure it's going to be sick Yeah But I mean also I mean apricot be also I think the names of the north the names of the agriant the names of gerkel Like yeah, definitely the gerkel in the north definitely and stereo sounds distinctly different Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think they all do that Yeah, I really start from scratch Yeah, and I mean fits is a real word. It means bastard so Allegedly Yeah Is it you know interesting to like keep that in her world as true that like And I think that's an interesting thing that fantasy authors have to navigate is like Which things that are true in our world Are also true there because like the fact that they speak english is like, uh, well, that's a happy coincidence I would imagine an entirely different world wouldn't The fact that they have monarchy and they have humanoid species. This all seems very convenient and unlikely So like how much are you going to make it like our world and how much stands on this and in language it's particularly difficult because like Figures of speech and things like that that you just like lean on as like all that expresses what I'm trying to say But then you're like, okay, but where does this figure of speech come from? Is it like a biblical reference and like they don't have the bible in this world?  That's part of language Um But you know like to pull that over like she could have invented a fantasy thing that means Bastard. Yeah, you have to draw the line somewhere, you know And that is a very good question. Where do you draw the line?  What? Yeah, excuse me. I think that is a attention to detail too that I think I read a lot of books where especially like like idiomatic expressions where I'm like Okay, you know where that comes from might like that does that's not in this world Like why would they be saying that? Like, um, I got so I mean I have an entire video ranting and so I did this wrong all of the time but like, um In half sick of shadows, which is like an Arthurian lady of the lake story Which, you know, that's like startling the line between historical fiction and speculative fiction But it's still like the expression that she used was um smoke and mirrors And I'm like Okay, they didn't even have the technology to make mirrors Let alone the magical convention used by like illusionists to do smoke and mirrors And then it was only in the 1970s that the expression smoke and mirrors was like people started using it So are you telling me the lady of shalott said smoke and she began it like I think not She started it But it's like stuff like that where you're just like, oh, it's an expression and I'm like, okay But you have to think about it like where did that come from? I'm like, would they be saying that? You're cringe af bro, I mean I would honestly live for that which is I'll said that because we know he's thinking it Yeah, some people do actually get um some different times I can say the same months But then some people do just say months and we just kind of accept it.  It comes every year like we get it like Yeah, then like the long summers Which like really is like climate change like rapid climate change Yeah, and the fact that the um the wall has been weeping You know There's actually that's actually kind of a cool play george could have probably even done more with it But he did if you think about like mass migration from the north Coming down now obviously it wasn't just because of weather it was because well the winter was coming But also because of you know walkers and such but the winter was literally coming Yeah, that that piece of the story is so fascinating to me still even after reading it all these times And you know jemison did that very well and broken uh broken earth She was able to yeah, we were gonna chat about broken earth at some point. Let me know We'll get off of our ever groovy martin and hop kick. Yeah talking about someone else. Well, I love nk I mean she's definitely up there for me Yeah And that trilogy has a lot to do with climate and stuff But like that's something that uh that author should play with more. I would love to see that Absolutely, but again, I think It can be done lazily where like you haven't thought through how this goes Yeah, or it's just like allegory like straight allegory for or it's just like it's like a thing that happens in a way that you're like It creates like a problem But specific to the plot you want to tell but doesn't like actually largely affect all of the little things that it would affect And like nk jemison like has clearly thought through how everything is affected. Yeah, I mean it's central to that I I would say and and done very well. I loved how it ties into the magic as well um, I just finished the guy's not willing and There's like not it's not like climate change, but it's like, well I don't know. There's an event. There's a weather type event that happens that is so different from anything. I've ever read um, the only other person I could think that was done is hob And she did it really well. It's in rain wilds and um, yeah, I just read and the guy's not willing I loved it. It mattered so much and caused so much issues for everyone in the book that Very like you said trickles down into the little things so cool I mean like the very way that society is organized infrastructure is done would be different if you change things about your natural world But yeah, this is this is what you get moons So like we don't have weeks and months because then you're what are we naming the months? And what are we naming the weeks and you're like many moons? Yeah, brineley durphy actually does all of his stuff through moon phases um in his books And I thought it was really really cool. So I don't think you've read the wolf yet because I think you would have told me No, yeah, I haven't read it yet, but I want to so an interesting thing that I don't I mean, I often talk about how amazing to like this is a very different kind of amazing world building because it's anthropological in the like This is a different species So how do they organize themselves and how they function isn't just like, okay, their world is different like they are Lired differently. So like they wouldn't organize themselves the same way. They don't function the same way So like one of the things that is like interesting about the anakim Is that they they have the year split up by like weeks Like they have names for the year by the week because that's how attuned they are to the nature and what changes in the nature At like that minutia. It's not like vaguely summer is warm It's like we know week to week what is beginning to bloom what is ended blooming What is coming up what is like going away and we've named every single week because That's how like keyed in we are That's pretty cool. I'm actually really excited to read that Especially from anthropological Stance, that'd be cool. And they're kind of viking.  Uh in storms you would think, oh, that might It ends in an m. Yes storm you doesn't work Really doesn't And I mean, I felt this I just read uh, I'm not actually sharing my opinion because I'm not allowed to share my opinion on this yet But war breaker by Brian and Zanders and Hilary picked that for me And in that you get colors and that's the like exclamation colors I'm just like Yeah, it's not good Doesn't work It really doesn't But it makes sense because brandy sanderson doesn't swear so he doesn't know you could come up with a cooler fake swear But unless if you swear a lot, you don't you don't know it sounds good, you know Like he hasn't sat around and thought about the the What's comes comes back to like coming up with like quizzats hat or act like just the sound of words Like this is a different wordsmithing. This isn't like an artfully crafted sentence that has multiple meanings It's just like I mean You sacrifice something for velocity folks Like I'm not saying we all authors should write trilogy is where it's like two books and then 20 years later, we're hoping for a book three like that's that's the opposite end of the spectrum There's a happy medium There's a happy medium Patrick Roth is an author that like I mean he's also the when we were talking about how the pros of the three authors We're here ostensibly to talk about tonight um Don't get lauded for their pros that much even though they have great pros Patrick Roth is obviously does get lauded for his pros. Um, and I mean he does like It's clear that he's like He's expressed that he has mental health issues and then he's an obsessive perfectionist And you're like, I mean it shows they're like you went over every sentence over and over and over again To make them sound as good as possible and that you're not satisfied It's like a thorn in your shoe that you're like that doesn't sound perfect yet.  I say it all the time. It's seven hells from Or um in first law by the dead Yeah, that that sticks by the dead back to the mud back to the mud back to the mud. I'm getting tattooed on me I really am I'm just gonna win. I was gonna say considering that that means dead Yeah, I want to yeah, I want to do something with that and well I mean those are without inventing words then inventing Expressions that are you know putting words together. Yeah, um, but that I mean inventing like, you know Those are like that's part of world building that I think also gets either You know, it's kind of lazy to just be like colors I mean like okay, but come up with like actual like how is your culture function based on like Maybe a color based magic system what other expressions might arise out of that that might be an uh Like expression of alarm. It might be a swear. It might be You know, you could come up with a lot of like figures of speech and idioms that kind of come from That and it's just like overlooked and I think, um Like Abercrombie and martin are very good at coming up with like in-world idioms and expressions that feel natural Yeah, they definitely do ugly as incest It's a pretty good one or um ferro constantly calling them pinks like that feels completely natural fat pink mask That is not the kind of pink that I was talking about It's a very different pink Also, like hoods balls. That was made me laugh What is that from? It's from the last Hoods balls and I I actually said it this past week Yeah, good as girm is so good at branding. Yeah, it's one of his biggest strengths. Yeah I also think that pierce brown is really good at naming He keeps it simple, but it works And again, it's all that kind of stuff that makes it feel like a cohesive real world I didn't need to go Come help yourself. Yeah Yeah, but I mean at that point like I honestly wish you just like didn't have any kind of all just don't Talks teats is also a good one Ah There's so many good ones, uh I mean, I feel like one of the laziest ones that I see the most often is like I think a lot of fantasies because they don't want to be accused of ever commenting on a real world thing They'll make it polytheistic because it's like no one can say it's a commentary on christianity to make it polytheistic or like you still can but like um, you know, they'll just like vaguely make it Some gods and so then they'll just make the same expressions that we have but it replace it The singular with the plural So people aren't like, oh my god, they're like, oh my gods and you're like it's your nation in my world You're like no Yeah, I uh, I saw I read um, alexander darwin's a self-polished author did a trilogy called the combat codes and I actually really enjoyed it but um Dark is like considered a swear word and he said like there was one character who is Like rough and he'd be like you darken idiots, you know dark dark dark dark and dark dark and he's like, oh my god This is terrible like like I like the books but like that piece of it was really tough for me to get through and I actually I end up You know telling author that actually because he asked me for feedback but Books are good, but I told him I said you got to cut down the the inworld swears because Every time he says dark and I just want him to say fuck Like it just doesn't work, right? I was actually thinking but like it's not ideal that like that's a swear either because of like real world like Oh dark is bad like Yeah Not ideal Yeah, not great. Just make up a word. Yeah um There was a lot of what I think I thought of but well I forgot about it Character really becomes swears in other cultures. Yeah, that is a cool piece of that world for sure Storming inspiration spread But I think it's also the fact that like uh, and I think jar jar martin in particular is good at this kind of thinking but the other two are good as well and a lot of others are not is that like the most direct idea of like how A situation or of a faith or whatever Would result in an expression and that it's this direct one-to-one and you're like, okay But that's not how cultures like we just talked about nicknames like they just come out of freaking nowhere that like they They spring up and they morph over time and like the reason people like people who are atheists say Oh my god that like nothing ever makes that much sense So the fact that things don't always make sense in your world makes it feel more real And the fact that I mean like the sakra blue like what french say which means sacred blue Doesn't make any freaking sense But it's because blue sounds like due which is god. So it's the same. It's like people saying and oh my gosh instead of Oh my god But like it's making things like further adjustments to it like that We were like, okay But like how might it change and one of this random thing happened that changed it even more And that just like took on and like if you make it random like that It feels more real. So like the fact that we don't get an explanation for why pharaoh calls them pinks But then she's like, well, what color are you? You know, like, I mean, yeah, it checks out but like But yeah, it's it's stuff like that that makes it I mean dark wings dark words, you know Like you could see why that would become a thing and it doesn't feel too on the nose If people were just like, I don't know if it was like Bad ravens bad what rhymes with that? I don't know I mean, you know, it could be like more on the nose and you'd be like So it's stuff like that. It makes it feel organic The others take you and it's all vice-versa nice expression too. Yeah, george's worldbuilding is so good and natural in the way that he spreads it, you know It's it's rather good We commented on it. I think in book one or two We were just like look at all this worldbuilding We were so much this the fact that that's why I say don't explain everything because like in real in real life We do so many things that we do not know the explanations for we just do them. Yeah I mean, I'm atheist in christmas slaps so But there's also just like this hodgepodge of traditions. It's not like oh well the christians Do the jesus birthday and the pagans do the tree with the candles. They're like, nope They're all kind of doing all of it I Harry Potter had muggles Yeah, which admittedly is a very good word. I gotta give it. I gotta give it Yeah, that's what it means. Don't let the muggles get you down. Yeah So not only the three authors are talking about I mean nk jemisin is actually very good I think in broken earth where I think there is the glossary I never checked it because like you can pick it up from context clues what they mean But it's very it feels very in universe doesn't feel like these like fake made-up words because this is a fantasy world It feels very like it makes sense why the naming conventions would be the way they are and Our people would talk the way they do and why this would be slang It really helps with immersion for sure Um, I I think george is like really good at it. Um, and it's because he has so much history and lore around what he's doing That's a good way to get you read. Yeah, my blood was also pretty good. Yeah, my blood was also good Angry that muggles is a good swear. Yeah It is what it is Mudbloods and muggles. I mean it They roll off the tongue But like, I mean not to this point also not just that it's not believable that they know it It's also unlikely that they would talk about it Yeah, that's true We like I don't sit around at christmas explaining our own christmas traditions to my family who know what we do And why we do it and don't need to hear me explain it You know, like people don't go around explaining their faith systems and their traditions all the time. They just do it It's true And then even that like family traditions at a whole another layer were like, okay Not only are there these like mixing and like a pick and mix of different faiths that got morphed over time and then commercialized and then merged and became Christmas There's also every single family has its own traditions that sometimes makes sense and sometimes really do not make sense Like like one year, you know mom burned the christmas dinner And so we ordered pizza and now our christmas tradition is to have pizza on christmas and that no one else is doing that But like that's our christmas tradition is to have pizza, you know, like stuff like that Yeah I want pizza This is the main takeaway Oh, yeah, they did that and like at first I was like Yeah, it's kind of cute, but I also got really annoying really fast. Yeah, you never want to annoy people with like You're in world swears.  Oh like different people playing monopoly different ways Yeah, average people don't think about culture They don't Or if they do I don't know. They still don't talk about it the way that like exposition dumps are or are explained away all the Hippocritical things that I know something like they'll be like and you know, it doesn't really make sense that we do this But we do it because Yeah, you're like, okay, we're constantly being hypocrites voice of the author here. Yeah I mean it does it feels almost like a fourth wall break when they're like some infodems Some exposition is literally just like so author here. Uh, just going to explain to you. This is how the world works Okay, so back to the story and you're like, thanks for that Thanks, Robert Jordan Not tell them why I'm doing it. Oh and I mean, yeah, it's the house the the words for each of the houses and song of wasting fire Yeah, and those help tremendously like we do not so hear me roar He you know a lot of detail went into that stuff And someone said earlier they feel like it's more organic because George is coming up with it on the spot And I actually agree with that a lot and that's why I Even when I write I kind of like the discovery or gardener or whatever method of writing I feel like you must be referencing something specific. So what 12 year old orphan went on a cultural diatribe? I would like to know Um, maybe talking about a song of ice fire because the characters are young. That's what I'm assuming, but I'm not sure I think we're talking about like books doing it badly We're like explaining your traditions and some 12 year old also knows like entire history of oh, probably It may probably Harry Potter Could be right I feel like it's usually like the grown-up because that's why I mean as much as it is a cliche to have a fish out of water character That's why you have them because then everybody can go around explaining things to them Like I don't know how this world works. Like let me tell you That's why it's also uh nice to have your main character travel somewhere Definitely and We've been going for quite a while. So we should probably end soon, but I'm about to introduce like a very complicated topic So just briefly. I think all three in very different ways are good at commenting on like tense relations between Social classes and between races Yeah, definitely and they show those things not in like a we could just solve racism If we all you know, like it's never that it's always and it's also never I think Abercrombie like even said in the interview that like he hates like there's nothing worse than you know This is the villain and you know how I know they're the villain They said something racist like that like it's never that simple And the fact that the kind of like prejudice and bigotry that you find can be like Mustache twirling top to your evil that you're like, okay, you're literally in the kkk. Okay. Like, I mean that's that's pretty as far as it goes But there's also like very pedestrian mundane forms of like Classism and bigotry and racism that both I mean all three of these like their worlds don't shy away from showing that Yeah, I would agree with that and It's the questions we talked about like they pose a lot of questions and the reader has to decide what they think is moral What is it moral?  I've even seen some people say they understand why kyle is such a Dick and live ships before but hey, that's their interpretation Uh, I feel like in first law, it's always interesting to see because he was given the name kyle at berth And he's been raging against that Uh, first of all, it's always interesting to see who people cheer for in that. Um, you know People cheer for jamie and that's a very popular opinion But if you look at hold out if you look for it in his whole existence, you know, he's done some pretty crummy things Um, so they're very complex questions and the answer is not always right there given to you by the author And those are the best best things Well, it's also I mean like uh We like for fun Z's got into the topic last night like who's your favorite character and then I was like Okay, but I think there's two different ways to answer that this is your favorite character because like oh you love them And then there's your favorite to read about Yeah, because like most of first law You can't really say you love those characters But I love reading about them. And so then like in in hobbooks. I was like, okay. I mean, I love night eyes Um, but I love reading about kennet And like I don't love kennet. My god. I don't love kennet, but so fascinating to raise a monster monster But one of the best characters I've ever read in my life Also Hobbes favorite character Of all of realm of the elderlings. I think it was this specifically. What was her favorite antagonist? I think was the question and she said it was kennet Um, but I felt like she like kind of said I think my favorite characters kennet. Um I mean he's there's so many layers just like Jesus. Yeah Live ship, uh, you could do a character study on each person in the cast and get Tons of hours out of it And kennet did seem the most that like you could pluck him out and stick him in first law I need to feel right at home certainly And in a lot of different series. I mean he would does he comes off the page. He's so good It's like the distinction that I so what I was saying that you know farce or like there's things about it that are like the character works reminiscent of First law and it's it's equally as dark a lot of the time has anything in first law Why is it not grim duck? Well, your pov is you know, the hopeful naive sweet fits. It's not a cynical pov Um, it was first law the pov would be regal and so in live ship when kennet is a pov I was like, this is very first law of it to make kennet not just in it, but be a pov Yeah, and play with you as a reader I mean every single chapter of kennet's I was like In within one chapter.  You're bad. It's like there's a lens that's very Like I can't I can't be against everything that you just thought and felt like some of that was valid But also it was mixed in inextricably with a lot of not great things. I'm like Yeah, one of the best uh best formed antagonist Probably the best antagonist I've read honestly I know pierce brown. So it's his favorite character is adrius the jackal I think he's one of the most chilling we like one of the most chilling introductions to a villain Like the first meeting with the jackal. Yeah, I like the jackal quite a bit very unsettling very um, I mean it for like, uh I was specifically talking about this in the podcast with bethany about when glockta goes, um I don't think this is a spoiler because so he goes to girkle And you know, there's he's been sent there to deal with the defense of the city situation Like that's the reason he's there. So obviously you have to like figure out what's what what are the resources we have Who's here? Whatever and there's like this is a different area of the map. There's tense race relations And the people who have been previously handling this were not doing a great job And glockta does not come in as like a it is wrong and everyone is equal And just because they are different from you then it is like no He's like it is very impractical of you to be not utilizing the best resources and the best resources are local workers So if like it's it's doesn't I mean he doesn't come across as like a moral do-getter But also like it does shine a light on like these tense not great race relations We were like you're showing a really bad situation and our character They were following isn't like This is atrocious.  He's like, I don't care what you believe I definitely don't care about what's best for you. But what's best for the city is if you help us out. So Yeah, he's not he's not the paragon of righteousness, right? Yeah And the idea of like a character coming in like not that there aren't people who were like Just you know fight for a cause for the cause's sake and would be like this is just wrong And it doesn't matter if it's impractical to do things differently. It's wrong the way things are being done But like most of the time the way the world works is like what is kind of What people feel like is going to get them the best like the most ideal situation for them So like the fact that glocter comes in and it's like I mean, I don't I don't care that this is moral or immoral.   Like that's people are always the heroes of their own stories. So Yes, yes, we are And I mean the we see more like race relations specifically like with danny's plot line and where she is because like Westeros is more homogenous Yeah, and also it's a it's a pretty interesting take on colonialization because Danny wants to put an end to a lot of what their culture Had going on before that that had been passed down for a long time And some of the people even wanted it bad the fighting pits is kind of what I'm talking about but And she wants to end it but she ends up bringing it back and she's disgusted by it But the people are loving it and it's good for the city's economy and it's like really interesting take on I was gonna say actually both hob and martin do interesting things with slavery Like specifically and like don't just make it like I mean not that they're not never saying well, sometimes it's good Like they're not saying that but like the way that they're making it not just like a well you end it and you're like, okay Sometimes it's it's really not that simple Yeah, so like in liveship traders and you know the handling of slavery there And the way that plays into just all the themes And then like you just said danny and the slavery and Her part of the world is It's a very messy complicated gray. Well, it's always about what happens next That's kind of what danny's story is all about Well, you can't just like disrupt a system if you don't have a replacement Correct Correct a lot of people want to topple things and not think about what the next step is Which is why you need to read the next red rising books When he's done we finished, you know, because we did the toppling but like one now Once he finishes it I'm in you know, he submitted a draft for book six what I've heard That's awesome Which is also because he like he tossed like 600 pages That he had written before and was like nope starting again. I was like, oh, no That's scary, but he said he tossed it because it was too dark and I was like, oh Because dark age Is very dark and he didn't think that was too dark to publish So his sixth book he was like, that's too dark. I can't promise that I was like, my god Colors what is in that? Any other thought I like all three of these authors very much I think I know who your favorite is So, yeah We have our I think we've stated our case They are best in the biz I have my homework to read the rest of the realm of the elderlings Yes Yes, you do and I need to read Duncan egg for our discussion next uh Next week I need to read the wolf and king killer chronicle Yeah, I know I got a lot I got a lot of stuff I'm gonna start janny warts his 11 book series because I'm a madman. So that's gonna be interesting One series exactly uh wars of light and shadow by janny warts. It is um I've heard a lot of people that I respect say it's the most underrated fantasy series of all time It's supposed to be extraordinarily complex Um, and it has like four or five individual arcs and the last book comes out this year Um, which is the book 11? So I'm really pumped and I've heard that her writing is insanely good. So really excited about it Well, you certainly sell it. Well, yeah I guess I'll let you know you can be the guinea pig.  I have I have very high hopes very very high hopes But you have to keep them low when you go into it so that you won't be disappointed. Of course But thanks for coming on to chat about these authors that we always chat about Anytime and we'll be talking again for hours next sunday and it sure will I'm gonna say it feels a little weird to be sober and talking to you I'm surprised you made it I mean, I think it's more impressive that we can go that long and not be sober Yeah, I would agree, but it's easy when you're talking about these three Yeah, and then I mean me and Alex don't have to do anything We just kind of like mention a thing and then watch you go like oh, and it's so good because oh guys guys Do you know that it's actually he actually said it's confirmed and I looked this up and like I wasn't imagining it. It's confirmed That is me I will I fully own that very much It's my impersonation of So good. Oh, no. Oh, I should send it to you. Um someone did um trump as golem Look, we want the precious when you need the precious. We're gonna get the precious So good. It was stolen would we're gonna get it back It works Okay, well on that note Uh, thanks everybody for the lovely chat and jimmy were chatting and just the all the chatting and the chatting See you next time. Bye everyone


We want persons to recognize that a lot has been done to minimize poor outcomes for mothers, the babies, the families, the society St. Lucia by extension. Universal health coverage is aimed at ensuring that citizens of St. Lucia have access to affordable, equitable and quality healthcare services without going through financial hardship. And this health initiative is something which I support and I believe that this is just the beginning of the health revolution in this country. 9. 14 facilities on Island have already been a mark for the transition to solar energy. As the Ministry of Development and Sports seeks to reduce on the cost of electricity. The goal is to have all facilities within the next 15 years to be able to use renewable sources of energy. 8. In a prestigious ceremony held in commemoration of World B Day, the Ministry of Agriculture paid tribute to visionary farmers and key-stake holders who have been instrumental in propelling the apiculture sector forward. Apiculture for us is a major theme for funding in St. Lucia and for our DOCS and we will continue to support the government and people of St. Lucia in that respect. 7. In order to prepare for the mammoth task of training 3,000 secondary school students under what damn CVQs, a preliminary meeting was recently conducted by the Human Capital Resilience Project, with all major stakeholders held at the Mount of Prayer in Kuparil. Through this project, the government is seeking to strengthen resilience of its population and address issues of poverty, vulnerability to shocks, youth unemployment. 6. St. Lucia Mathematics Professor based in the United States, Dr. Delia Samuel has come up with the concept of a mathematics camp which will focus on students who need remedial instruction in this subject and teachers who need modern methods of teaching math topics that students find challenging to learn. It is time to unlearn practices which have not been beneficial to mathematical learning and teaching. 5. The Substance Abuse Advisory Council Secretariat is taking a step-by-step approach to addressing nicotine and tobacco dependence. We hope that as we go through the schools and speak to the students that they would see the importance of taking substances as a whole, making proper decisions, developing coping strategies for themselves, being able to overcome those, you know, their own stresses and difficulties that would probably lead them to try and substance-free. 4. Over 46 accountants representing all government agencies converged at the Finance Administrative Centre in Point Serif in Caste Trees. The seminar, organized by the Accountant Generals Department, seeks to update the knowledge and skills of government accountants to the International Public Service Accounting Standard. We have to report a balance sheet, a profiterate law statement, a statement of equity of the government and list all of the loans and status of the loans and payables of the government. 3. On June 17th, 2023, six young ladies will vie for the title of Ms. Sufra Carnival Queen 2023. Ms. Koudri's car and jeep rental, Kitel Sinforia, says as a creative, this pageant will afford her the avenue to hone her skills. I am very passionate about art, in particular dance. It is my form of self-expression and channeling my inner creativity. What I've been enjoying most about this experience is just really bonding with my fellow contestants. It's become a sisterhood. 2. World No Tobacco Day is designated by the World Health Organization to bring into sharp focus the impact of tobacco on health. In 1987, this observance has been held yearly on May 31st. The reason for its continued relevance is clear as we see many of our family members, friends, co-workers and loved ones develop chronic illness and even die as a result of tobacco use or exposure to second hand tobacco smoke. 1. We are observing Caribbean Nutrition Day every year on the 1st of June which is followed by Caribbean Nutrition Awareness Month. And so we have activities throughout the month of June. We have some planned activities in the regions at the wellness centers where the staff will be talking about nutrition and how it affects the mental health.