Computer Museum in the heart of Silicon Valley, extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Silicon Valley 2015. Brought to you by Morantis. Now your hosts, John Furrier and Jeff Frick. Hey, welcome back everyone. Hello, we are live in Silicon Valley for theCUBE Silicon Angles flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal and noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Jeff Frick. Our second day of coverage of the OpenStack Silicon Valley conference, hashtag OpenStackSV, hashtag OSSV15, join the conversation, go to crowdchat.net slash OSSV15, but we have all the commentary there threaded on our CrowdChat app built on the cloud, built on Amazon. Our next guest is Derek Holson, founder and CEO of Epsera. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. Yeah, good to see you guys as well. You know cloud pretty well. You've been at VMware, you got your start up here. You've been guys doing a lot of great work. The first question is, you know, what's going on with the cloud? Is there a hybrid cloud out there? Is there a category? What does it mean? I mean, we know what public is. We see that every day, Amazon. We know what private cloud is. Is it connecting them as hybrid? Is hybrid cloud just an engineering issue? What's your take on this? Yeah, it's a great question. I think, you know, similar to when no one knew what cloud was and they all started talking about it and we're trying to figure it out. We're in the same way respect the hybrid cloud. The difference is, is everything is compressed. So people will figure it out. But to your point, I think people's version of hybrid cloud now is we have some apps running here and some apps running in a cloud and then never the two shall meet or talk or communicate. What I think is interesting though is going forward, you know, we're going to look at a multi-cloud world where everything is actually put together. The problem right now and one of my opinions, barrier entries outside the obvious of security and trust, which Afsara was born to kind of instill in our customers, is people are expensive. It's the only thing in IT that's getting more expensive. And right now when people say, I've got Amazon and if I want to add in something else, I need to add more headcount. That understand how to port to that platform. That understand how to manage that platform. And that's very prohibitive. But what's interesting is is that, you know, it used to be around cost, you know, it used to be around maybe geo footprint. My opinion is the battle for the cloud is around class of services. And it's a very different game. You know, Amazon is the 800 pound gorilla. So it was Microsoft at one point in time. Now what's interesting from my perspective is, you know, I've heard of certain customers leaving but the only reason they leave it isn't for cost. Yeah, it isn't for cost. It's, ooh, I want to use Watson. That machine learning, you know, technology because it really augments my app and drives business value. So it's going to be interesting to see. But what happened was in my understanding, I could be wrong, but is they had to pick all of the apps out of Amazon and then move them over. Cause they're like, we can't actually do too. I think that's going to converge and- Well, that is true. That is currently the case. You got to use blue mix, got to have some Watson bolted onto blue mix. But that brings up the question that we were talking on the queue earlier here. It opens stack as it finds this home. It's kind of finding it's swim land. I don't think it truly has yet. I mean, at first it was an alternative to Amazon. Now there's a workload issue going on. But the issue is, okay, I want to run certain things this way. I have built in infrastructure. I bought servers from Dell and HP. I got storage from EMC. I got some Oracle. I have a lot of stuff in my infrastructure. I want to run Amazon because it actually, you can reduce headcount by going to Amazon. No more system admins. DevOps, ethos gets a developer platform. You can move the ball down the field. But at some point you do need to meet in the middle. Yeah. So talk about that dynamic of meeting in the middle as companies try to figure out, okay, I get some economic savings with Amazon. Pretty obvious. Redshift is disrupting data warehouse market. Cost-wise. But the headcount issues one, the capex, op-ex issues the other. The other ones, I got developers and workloads. How do you, TZ, how do you talk to customers about those issues? Well, a lot of times, I mean, when we were up in Vancouver for the previous OpenStack summit, our big value prop outside of the Trusted Cloud Platform, which is what we drive was, you have this investment in OpenStack. How do you actually transition that seamlessly to multiple public cloud providers? And at least within Vancouver, everyone was like, we have no clue how to do that. Now, to be straightforward though, a lot of our customers, at least that we're talking to, they're like, yeah, we're going to do that. But first, let's figure out how to consolidate what we already have, right? We're in a capex cycle. We don't want to spend the capex. We want to try to figure out how to move those workloads through the cloud. And can you help us do that? Or what technologies are out there? To your point about OpenStack, not finding it swiveling, I agree. It's just kind of gotten to that point where it's technically viable enough to maybe start running production workloads.  And so a lot of the themes I'm hearing around here is, no, no, we're still relevant. This is why, because we're Project Magnum and we're going to do this and do this with containers. And the only thing I can say is the technology cycles are compressing so fast. The things are moving so fast. And the use cases in the enterprise are completely different by enterprise. And so that private cloud market seems robust right now. But the public cloud has got some benefits. Yeah, I think OpenStack's doing well there. They're gaining momentum. It's still very complex. Companies like Merantius are doing well because they help you figure out how to stand up this thing. Distribute systems are complex, right? But when you look at that and you look at the ways of simplification for cloud and you go, all right, let's say I have Docker, the new tar ball format for workloads, and I can try to figure out how to deploy it on an OpenStack thing here, maybe with Project Magnum, or I shoot it into Amazon or Google or DigitalOcean or I think maybe Software Support. What's easier for DevOps? And we've talked about this before. If it's easier for DevOps, that's eventually going to win because that gets them to go faster. And you mentioned containers and the technology cycles are shortening, which I agree. And if people believe that to be true, containers really kind of telegraphs what's happening. A lightweight, easy to stand up set of services. So the question I have for you is if that's the case, and Kubernetes certainly on the orchestration side shows that as well, is OpenStack bloated? Are they too heavy? I mean, lightweight seems to be something that's a theme we're hearing in the hallways. It's not on the tracks yet, but like starting here, I want a lightweight stand up and also I want to work with my coexisting investments. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. And on this morning's panel, I just talked about, we can talk about container technology. It's neat, it's fun to geek out about it. But I think what people might be missing is that everything wants to get faster, lighter, cheaper, better, all of the stuff. And to a point where it really can't and it actually fundamentally changes the way you do things. That's the big wake up call. And right now we're at a point where people are starting to think about architecting systems by saying, I'll build just this much and I'm going to assemble all the other pieces together. And so how you figure out how to be relevant in that world, I think, is applicable to OpenStack. I mean, like I said, the theme around, hey, containers are over-hyped, but even if they are, we're relevant in a container-based world, it shows that they're all of a sudden going, hey, we feel like we're stuck out in the cold all of a sudden. So I got to ask you a question. We talked to Shang Liang earlier, CEO of Rancher Labs, xcloud.com guy, been around Web 1.0 infrastructure all the way up to the present. Smart guy. She's a pretty peaked out PhD from Yale. He's pretty smart. To get into Yale, you got to be smart. But he had an interesting comment. I'm talking about containers. I asked him, what is the disruptive enabler? And he said, and he's in the container business, containers aren't a radical disruption element. And I said, it's an accelerant. He's like, absolutely. So if you believe that containers are an accelerant, what is the underlying disruption happening in cloud? Yeah, I mean, and Shang and I talked about this on the panel this morning quite a bit. And he's got a container company. But every early technology pass, which as you know I was quite a part of, we use containers, we use that tech. When you look at companies that we're looking at as bleeding edge past the Google, but maybe like a Netflix, they were using very big AMIs and plugging kind of stuff together as a services oriented architecture. I think the big disruptor now is that if it's a container and it's extremely lightweight, and there's a repository of them that are supported by the vendor, so I can build faster by building less and I assemble more. To me, and Shang and I have talked about this before. I said, that's the disrupting thing that's happening. All the other technologies are really, in my opinion, just there to support that. I love that line, building less, assembling more. That's a great motto. That's a good sound bite we want to mark that. And so light that they're even disposable. I mean, people talk about containers, so many of them that they can almost become disposable. They're so lightweight to build and implement. Oh yeah, and you can spin these things up and then tear them right down. And we're getting to the point where you can spin them up and tear them down before anyone realizes that they might be there, right? To instantaneously respond to something, finish up whatever service level they need to and then they can tear themselves down. And again, that's, in my opinion, disruptive because that's really not possible with VMs. You're not going to figure out how to spin up a couple hundred VMs and then tear them down two minutes later because it's going to take you 10, 15 minutes maybe at best just to spin them up. And then how are they going to coordinate? How are they going to actually figure out how to be trusted and driven by policy? Again, part of AppSera's DNA. But with containers, right, think about it, they're sub one second. But I can tell you already that if you look at companies like Bromium, Simon Crosby, who we both know, he kind of touted micro task virtualization, which is they can spin thousands of those up a second. And again, the pattern and the disruption keeps going. And so if I can spin a thousand things up in a couple hundred milliseconds and have them kind of run very isolated, so we solve the security problems, we solve the stuff, the stuff, people's patterns begin to change about how they use it. And that's kind of the big disruption. When your behavior change, that's disruptive. Not as you just keep doing the same thing and doing it faster, all right? So I got to ask you, you've been at VMware, you've seen the evolution you're involved in some of the cloud thing. And like a former cloud guy at VMware, Jerry Chen, who's an investor in Docker, you guys have been there from the early days on the drawing board, if you will, of the VMware's view of the cloud. So they have their own challenge. We'll hear more about that next week at VMworld. The queue will be live in San Francisco next week for three days. Azure's got a lot of traction in the VMware ecosystem. We've been noticing some signaling in the marketplace around that. VMware is trying to become a cloud player. Obviously they have some corporate issues around EMC and the Federation, you know, with the Wall Street attack from the Elliott management. That aside, customers are going to have a lot of stuff. You're going to have multiple clouds. You're going to have Azure, Oracle, OpenStack, and you guys maybe and whatnot. What is the VMware plan in your mind? What should they be looking at? What should VMware be thinking about? Obviously we're going to hear about DevOps at the event. They're a little mini event going on. Are they doing the right things? Or should they be looking at something different? What's the, if you're at VMware, what would you do? Wow, that's a pretty loaded question, but I like it. You guys always do that too. Yeah, I'm not privy to kind of the things that VMware is doing today, but I'm still friends with Kitt and a lot of people over there. What I think is kind of interesting, at least in my opinion, and again, they could argue that I'm wrong. You know, we're here at an OpenStack conference. OpenStack exists because of VMware. Linux became extremely popular because of Microsoft. Their failure to adapt and actually change some of their models. And I just like Microsoft is really kind of, re-birthing itself and under Satya's lead with Azure and things like that is now, suddenly people are starting to talk about it and Windows 10 is actually good stuff. I think VMware read the tea leaves and they're already down that path of, all right, how we become relevant in a container-based world where Docker's important, where people are going to bridge their VMware technology investments from that to a public cloud. And I know Kitt is the one that I know, but obviously there's a lot of talented people over there. They read the tea leaves and I think they're on the right path. But you got to back up what you say. And I think one of the things I watched with Microsoft who they went on a 10-year turn where it was tough for them, right? Especially in the hearts and minds of enterprises that were trying to do new things. VMware's earlier in the cycle and they're pushing, I think you guys and of course we'll be watching closely as well some of the announcements out of VMworld which is still one of the best attended conferences ever will really signal how much weight they've been putting behind the arrow of saying we need to change, we need to adopt. It's not about the hypervisor. It's not about the management systems per se. It's about how do we enable businesses to go faster? And they have a good install base to build off of. They're in a good position. As did Microsoft. So when they made the turn, they still have a huge customer base to go back to. Yeah, Windows 10 was 75 million plus. And Office 365, as the description. So I got to ask you once you have an unopinionated perspective which we love your opinions here in theCUBE. Of course, great insight and content. You were on a tweet seven hours ago. What you want on a dialogue about where we are in the platform ecosystem and what it all means. Come by and listen with a link to your panel. Also you're here on theCUBE live, so let's go to it. But also you say another quote on the under the company handle. The unopinionated systems will win. Yeah. A reality check. Talk about the dynamics around platform wars in the ecosystem. Systems are changing. Developers are the lifeblood of ecosystems. APIs are the lifeblood of the ecosystem. And what does unopinionated systems mean? Yeah, I mean, you know, I was part of the opinionated systems, right? To figure out how to deploy complex workloads by being very opinionated. Just hand me your application. I'll figure out everything else for you. And we were trying to solve a very specific problem around speeding up deployment. Problem is that wasn't the problem.  But the problem when you see the force through the trees is embracing complex systems, driving trust. In the meantime, as we were going down our path and other past providers were going down their path, something happened. It was called Docker. And guess what? Docker does not want the deployment system to have any opinions about what's running inside of it. Right? It's a whole everything's in the container. Don't worry about it. And so whether you agree with me or not or my tweets, if you do a Google trend analysis between all of the technologies that are like past providers and the word Docker, you're going to see that they flatline. There is no competition. And Docker is very unopinionated. Meaning that, how about this, John? The better way to look at it is the opinion shifts back to the power of the developers. And that doesn't always work. But when you look at Docker, it's like, no, it's all about my opinion. I'm going to pick what version of Java and what app server and what this, what that or whatever, I'm going to put all in this container and I'm going to hand it to IT ops. And I just want you guys to run it. And so when you look at a platform that says, no, no, you hand me the app and I'll figure out all the pieces, those things are at odds, right? Now, what F-SER tries to do is say, we embrace both models, we could care less, but IT ops has to be empowered to say, well, we actually do care about what's inside of there. Does it have zero day exploits? Is it running the version that, you know, the company is blessed version of Java, whatever like that. So being agile and being understanding, I guess, how about this? Where the opinion has shifted is the important part. And when a platform is very opinionated about how you as a developer do something, those are the ones that I think are going to be kind of left behind. Yeah, because they close a lot of opportunity because they're projecting syntax onto the developer. Yeah, so they rapidly speed up, but they only speed up this much of the problem. And once the customer realizes that they're only actually helping with this much of the problem, they kind of scratch their head and they go, oh, well, all right, now what do we do? All right, talk about AppSare real quick, we got a break here, but I want you to get the plug in. AppSare, what's going on with the company? Headcount, strategy, positioning? Yeah, well, we've been growing quite rapidly. We're over 100 people now. We were only about 21, less than a year ago. No gray hairs, you're looking good there, you're looking. Oh no, they're there, they are there. Yeah, we're driving the trusted cloud platform. All we really care about is multi-cloud, single policy framework. We just happen to run a lot of the enforcement points, like a scheduling algorithm and a runtime, although we're a founder of OCI and a network layer, but they only exist to drive trust into a platform. And so we've talked even early on, three and a half years ago when we started a company, if you make a decision but you can't enforce it, you can't have trust. And so a lot of these things you're seeing is, oh, policy says you can't do this, but you can, and then all of a sudden you get your name in the paper. So we're all about- So you guys are betting on complex systems, large scale and trust? We're actually flipping the problem on its head. We're betting on a trusted cloud platform that embraces multi-cloud and complexity or microservices, right? The decomposition system, so. Distribute computing, whatever you want to call it. Same one, different phone. I know all the words. Free computing, distributed computing. Customers just want solutions right now. They want security, they want trust, they want to run at a very good price point. Yeah, and trust is something that's very hard to articulate, but you know when you don't have it. Okay, so final, final question. Amazon's disrupting data warehouse with Redshift. That's just one random example. What are you guys disrupting?  Are you guys taking down a certain market problem? What disruption are you guys doing? Yeah, essentially we are all about deploying diverse workloads in a multi-cloud platform all with a policy-driven framework that actually enforces everything the same way on every public cloud provider and vSphere and OpenStack and BareMetal. And so when you look at the notion of saying, I want a workload to actually maybe migrate or scale up and move, we literally do that in seconds with no code changes, nothing at all. And we embrace Docker natively, but we also embrace other workloads because it's a diverse world. All right, Derek Collison, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Great to have your insight and we'll debate anytime with any other player about hybrid cloud, anytime you want to meet and get people together we're happy to broadcast that live. Insight here on theCUBE about the future cloud we'll be back with more from Silicon Valley after this short break.


Come on We just a click we will build dreams we will build up we will make mountains out of stones We will build a future where everyone can dream it and be it With just a click of the button we will connect dreams across borders Transform education create jobs transmit knowledge and build the world We want With technology we have lifted boardings and implemented dreams We have given girls up told young people that they can fly The barriers do no longer exist The borders are a cake that they can reach for and beyond With technology we have taken thousand steps in seconds so Let's do more let's build ideas that will create safe space for everyone a safe space That will not leave anyone behind Where we men and girls are truly acknowledge where young people are included it starts from you and me This is a call to action for us to dare to dream for us to believe in our Ability to create light out of the night Let us know that with Technology the future we hope for will come that education We transit borders the girls in Africa Asia and across the world we will learn the young people view tribe Pellui more error and one more what I call a coil run that we Technology we build an education system that will bring us all together That with technology we are just a click away from breaking borders and smashing barriers I


I grew up in Canada, born and raised in Nemeton, Alberta, so I started playing hockey when I was four years old. In Canada, it's your right of passage, right? Everybody plays hockey in Canada. I played until I was 18 years old. That's when I got the offer to go play professionally. I had somebody call me out of the blue and I'd been scouting and said, would you like to come play hockey in Laredo, Texas? And I've played there for seven years. I went back and forth to a different team. I played in San Antonio, Texas as well and I played a year in England as well too and then ended up playing in Mississippi where I finished out my career. When I played in Texas, we won two championships, which was really cool. We had set a couple of records. We went 48. 8 and 8 was our record. In the final series, we were down three games. The one that we came back and won the best of seven series in overtime at home. It's like you can't write any better for your sportsman. Hockey can be a violent sport, a physical sport. Bro, I've broken my wrist multiple times. I cut the back of my neck with a skate as well when I was younger, playing on the outdoor rank. And then I've broken this arm, and then the wrist, which is what kind of ended my hockey career. I had a skate to the jugular, which cut my jugular, which was pretty scary. It was kind of a freak accident, a goalie skate. Kind of, I don't know if you've ever seen a goalie skate. It's sharp and pointy at the end so they can push side to side. The skate came up at the same time that I got up off my knees and just happened to... It was a wild experience because my trainer reacted before I even knew what happened. He was on the ice and I looked down and there was just a puddle of blood and I was like, Oh, that's not good. And he spent about two hours with his fingers, pressure was on my neck and we sat in the emergency room. It was uncomfortable, but I didn't know the kind of danger I was in.  I'm like, wait, why didn't you tell me that?  I have friends that I've met while playing hockey that have lasted to this day. You learn a lot. It builds character, I think, in playing competitive sports, which obviously I didn't play in NHL. So I had to continue working after. That really helped, I think, build my competitiveness, determination to win. I don't like to lose. I like to do the best that I can. It is hard to transition from playing semi-professional sports into, I call it the real world, which is working, going to work, finding a job that you enjoy, that you can show up every day and give it your all kind of like you did in hockey. And I do feel like I found that here and I'm not just saying that because I work here, but I really do. I enjoy it. I've been here for five years now. I love going to work. Everybody here at night, we kind of work as a team, right? I don't think that any of us can be successful without each other, even if we're not working in the same departments. I think that that's one aspect of dealt with my whole life. I've dealt with playing professional hockey, working with a team, working well with others.  I think that transfers well into the corporate world.


This video today as usual from Jerusalem but it's been a particularly crazy 24 hours here in Israel because yesterday the Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu fired his Defence Minister sparking a renewed wave of protests around the country centred where I am here in Jerusalem. I'm currently just outside the Rechavi neighborhood which is where the Prime Minister's residence is located. Although Netanyahu is currently staying in a private residence a little bit away from that but that's where he's supposed to be living and all the way to the Knesset which is Israel's parliament. You can see the crades behind me here literally blocking the intersection according to estimates there's been something like 100,000 people coming across the country.


Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome. My name is Heather Conley. I'm Senior Fellow and Director of the Europe Program here at CSIS. If this is the first time you're visiting us, welcome to our new building. We're delighted to have you here. And I can't begin to tell you how delighted I am that we have the return of Ambassador Andreas Mavrolianus, Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Cyprus, former, but now, now he's got a bigger title. Are you ready for it? Greek Simperate Negotiator for the Cyprus Problem. That's a daunting title. I have to, I have to confess. The minister was here two years ago, a year and a half ago. He visited CSIS with another tough job. He was in charge of the rotating presidency, which Cyprus held for the European Union. So we were talking about European Union budgets and multi-annual financial frameworks. So that conversation has moved on and now an even tougher assignment. To introduce the minister, it might be shorter to say what he has not done in a distinguished diplomatic career than to run through this extraordinary list of accomplishments. The minister, the ambassador has served as ambassador of Cyprus to Ireland, to France, to the United Nations. He has worked on every difficult problem that the United Nations has faced. Again, his EU credentials are extraordinary. But now, perhaps, he comes to his toughest, most difficult challenge and an exciting moment where we could see 40 years after Cyprus was divided a potential reunification. The ambassador is going to share some comments with us, some reflections on where the process stands. Negotiating process to reunify Cyprus. And then we're going to have a little moderated conversation here. And then we'll open the floor to questions and to comments and answers. So again, Mr. Ambassador, we are so delighted. You are here. We are so delighted that with every job you get, you seem to take on the tough assignments and you seem to solve them. So we're really hoping you can solve this one. So with that, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Heather. And I would like to thank everybody who spare time to be here with us today. Okay. It's a pleasure to come back and be conno. I would say that two years ago, it was two years ago in April, we were talking, you know, about the European Union. Cyprus was about to assume the rotating presidency of the Council of the European Union.  But I think you are at the same time that you are absolutely right. This current challenge I'm facing is much more difficult than anything else I did in my life. So it was an offer I couldn't refuse. But I have to tell you that I will do, of course, myself my best and my utmost. But for the solution to happen in Cyprus after so many years, after the invasion of 74, it requires not only commitment and determination by everybody, but also as they were saying in Ireland, and I was there during the Good Friday Agreement, you know, you need that the stars align themselves well. So maybe this time around, this will happen in Cyprus as well. So let me make kind of an introduction to our subject and then I will be open, of course, to all questions and comments that you are be willing to provide us. You know, I think that we need today if we talk about the prospects for a settlement in Cyprus to put a bit things into perspective and into a broader perspective. Since 74, we were trying to find a settlement in Cyprus which will accommodate the concerns and the preoccupations of both communities, but which at the same time would, if you like, reunify the country and allow it to fully take its stride as a modern democratic society. In the late 70s, there was an initial understanding about having a federal solution in Cyprus. This was the result of the division in the situation which was created in 74 and the only way that we felt at the time, both communities, that we could move forward. Eventually, this notion of a federation was further elaborated to embrace the idea of a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality between the two communities in Cyprus and with effective participation of both communities at the federal level but safeguarding at the same time the single international personality, the single sovereignty and the single citizenship of Cyprus. The Cypriots were not used to the idea of federation and until today it's not very easy to explain that the federation is a different system than a unitary state. And if we are talking about the federation, it is because we all realize that the consociational character of the Cyprus society has to be fully taken on board in order to make something that will be workable. Otherwise, we don't stand a chance to find a settlement for the Cyprus problem. And the federal structure has to be based on this substract, if you like. For us, under those conditions, the most important thing is that we have an organization of the state structure, the federal and the constituent state level, in a way that will ensure the functionality of the state. Of course, we need it to be inclusive for all its citizens and we need to have an integrated economy and society. We don't want that the relations of the state with the citizens will be primarily based on their ethnic origin. We need to have a state that will participate efficiently in the European Union as a member state that we are for the last 10 years and a state that will be implementing thoroughly EU legislation in the Aki community throughout the island. We believe that it is possible to reconcile... You didn't hear anything until now from the beginning? I need to start over, okay? But, yes, I was saying that we believe that it is possible to reconcile the bicommunal and bisonal character of this federation and the political equality with those fundamental values and principles of the European Union and the implementation of EU legislation throughout the island. And it's not through exceptions and opting out that we are going to achieve this but through the proper implementation of the European Aki. If we were to go the other way round, we would create segregation and would prevent, if you like, the constituent states of Cyprus to work together and create a thriving European democracy and a united economy which will stand its chances to be competitive in terms of the European Union. So with this in mind, we started this new effort for the settlement of the Cyprus problem that we have in front of us right now and we are working on. But we need also to bear in mind that the situation today is completely different than what it was some years ago. With the exception of the continuing presence of occupation troops, all the rest has changed. The supposed enmity between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, which anyway was more perceived than real, today appears as something that has to do with the past and trust and confidence between the communities is there and very quickly it can be restored to its previous levels if we manage to have more people-to-people conducts. The second element is that we believe that we are far beyond the problematic logic that permitted in the time of Cyprus independence of 1960 that Cyprus and the settlement of Cyprus was only there to feed into, to serve and respect a certain Grego-Turkish balance. The Cold War reality of 1960 which served to preserve the above logic and left Cyprus in the middle of problems that went beyond its size and its ability to cope with is not there anymore. We believe that today Cyprus can take its own stride and can go beyond this Grego-Turkish balance as an independent and sovereign state. At the same time, we believe that there is another factor which has completely changed through all those developments, dramatic sometimes in Cyprus. We came to more maturity in the country and we understand all of us and believe in both communities that the national identity is one thing and then being citizens of a state is another thing and we cannot go back to this principle of nationalities which was a prevailing idea many years ago. And to this, if you had the new geopolitical situation that we are going in our part of the world, we understand that it is now high time for the unification and most probably we stand a much better chance to achieve reunification. Of course for this to happen we need to overcome some also perceived ideas. Many times one gets the impression that many Cypriots are willing hostages of the past and it is not easy to change this mindset but it is imperative. The Cyprus problem and the way it unfolded as I was saying a minute ago stood in the way of constructing a notion of being citizens of the republic and the citizens of Cyprus. Now I believe that this has changed and people are ready to understand and accept that we preserve the ethnic origin and the identities of both communities but we build a notion of Cypriot citizenship. The third element is that we need to get rid of any outside intervention. You know, this has been the source of many problems of Cyprus and we need today to make everybody understand that only if the country can fly with its own wings and without external interference we can have a settlement in Cyprus. The geostrategic position I mentioned is also very important. You know, the discovery of hydrogarbons in Cyprus and around Cyprus and the new geopolitical situation in the area is a very important factor which for some time worked in the negative direction but now I believe that we can turn it into a positive element. Of course it requires that our relationship with Turkey stops to be a relationship of opposition and efforts by Turkey to threaten Cyprus when it tries to exploit our natural resources or to neutralize the existence of Cyprus and our position but if we replace this for a new approach we are going to be able to sort out the problem and find new avenues of cooperation between Cyprus, Turkey, Israel and the whole Eastern Mediterranean then it will be the best way forward. As I was saying before, this geopolitical situation, the new geopolitical situation has also contributed to an enhanced American interest in our part of the world and we believe that this American interest it's not about, you know, how to say, stealing our hydrogarbons it's about maintaining a predictable course, stability and predictability in the area and making sure that the broad perception of the American interest and of the Western interest are preserved in the area. The same applies to the European Union. Cyprus is a member of the European Union for the last 10 years and today through a settlement in, if you like, in addition to the new geopolitical situation Cyprus can play fully its role in the European Union both as a bridge towards the Middle East and the broader Eastern Mediterranean and as an alternative access both in the direction of west towards east and in the direction of east towards the west. And of course, as I was saying, we believe that the European Union stands to gain a lot from the settlement in Cyprus because we are the outer post of the Union in the Eastern Mediterranean and also when it comes to countries of the region and in particular Israel, Cyprus is the natural access towards the European Union. So we believe that we have in front of us the parameters that will allow us now in this new effort to achieve results. Of course, we are not there yet. You understand that we still have an occupation army. We have hundreds of thousands of settlers that we are brought in by Turkey and we need to find ways to restore everyone's individual human rights and freedom. We will not accept any settlement that does not take on board all those factors but we believe that it is possible to have a fair settlement that will allow all Cypriots to live in peace. To come now to a second part where I'm going to tell you just a few things about the current effort that is taking place in Cyprus. First, let me tell you that we have the feeling that all the parties involved have more determination and commitment than before and this is true for ourselves and President Anastasiades made it clear since his election this appears to be true also for the Turkish security leadership and this is true also for Turkey. This is true for the European Union, for the United Nations, for the United States and all other international actors. And it is important also in our part of the world and you know that one of the priorities of the American policy for instance is to restore a good working relation between Israel and Turkey and this goes to a great extent through Cyprus as well. Turkey itself appears to realize that it's not through the traditional militaristic approach towards Cyprus that we are going to move forward and they seem to opt more for cooperation, economic cooperation after the settlement of the Cyprus problem and cooperation in terms of energy and possibly in terms of having an energy route going to Europe through Turkey. There is another alternative of a corridor linking Israel, Cyprus, possibly tomorrow Lebanon, Greece with the European Union and this of course will contribute to the energy security of the European Union and will enhance the strategic importance of our part of the world and of Cyprus itself. Now, since September we have started a very enhanced and serious effort if you like to solve the problem. We have spent almost five months to have an agreed joint communique but I think it was worth it because we have with joint communique a very solid basis of the content of the sought after solution and at the same time we have an understanding of the methodology. Two months ago we started fully fledged negotiations and we are talking about the substance. We are negotiating very seriously. We are going through a process of screening right now and of in a way assessing the distance that separates the respective positions but this is a necessary component of the process and without if you like sounding over optimistic or if you like nourishing the euphoria that is spreading sometimes I would like to say that we are on track, we are working, we are just at the beginning of the process but we have every reason to believe that we are going to move forward provided that we continue to have the political will on all sides. What changes this time round is also the fact that we are discussing and this is part of the methodology all the core issues and all the problems at the same time and it is part of this new comprehensive approach that we had also the visits of the negotiators to Athens and Ankara respectively in order to we all know that the key for the solution of some of the most important elements of the Cyprus problem lies in Ankara so it's important to talk directly to them. Also the fact that we are having on the table and we are discussing their independence all the issues can make the difference because until now we had a kind of a sequential approach and as a result of this in the past you know every time we were facing a difficulty or a refusal of the other side to discuss a particular issue let's say territory or security or guarantees etc. we were parking the issues and we had the feeling as former president, late president Claridis was saying that we are transforming this Cyprus problem into an enormous parking lot so we need now to toggle all the issues all the issues and this is what we are going to do so this is what is happening at the negotiating table at the same time we believe that we need some parallel tracks some initiatives that will re-enhance the process and the results of those initiatives will be funneled into the process so we need some confident building measures some game changes and the most important of this is the idea of having a package around Barosha and Famagusta where the defense area of Barosha will be transferred to the UN in order to prepare for its return to its legitimate inhabitants if you like and also we are going to use the port of Famagusta for free circulation of goods of Turkish Cypriot origin within the European Union and then we are going to implement the Ankara protocol of the Customs Union of Turkey with the European Union which will allow more links in the trade area in particular between Cyprus and Turkey the opening of ports and airports to Cyprus vessels and to Turkish vessels and also the implementation of the Ankara protocol will create another win-win situation because this will allow the unfreezing of eight chapters in the accession negotiations of Turkey so we believe that this can make the difference and we count a lot both on the European Union to be ready to assume their own responsibility for the implementation of such measures but also of the United Nations to do the same and we count a lot also on the American enhanced interest of those parallel tracks forward last but not least we need this time round more of a bottom-up approach because until now the efforts for the solution of the Cyprus problem were taking place at the political level and the last one was kind of UN initiative which resulted in a plan and in an arbitration and one of the reasons it failed it was because the people were not on board so now we need to get it right there is no way we are going to have a repetition of the previous effort there will not be any outside plan, no arbitration the leaders will have to negotiate they need to establish and draft the settlement and for this to happen and have an end result which will go to referenda and be approved in separate simultaneous referenda by both communities we need to make sure that people are on board no political leader will go to the end unless he knows that he has the overwhelming support of the people so we need to start working as from now and we have started working as from now with the civil society, with NGOs with the business people there are a lot of initiatives that are going on and we hope that slowly, slowly we are going to build the conditions the organic conditions of peace as Seja Mone was putting it to go back to our European discussions of three years ago so with this I will stop and at your disposal for any comments or questions you want to make thank you Heather Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much that was the most hopeful conversation I have had in a very long time on this subject and I have to tell you as a European analyst the last several weeks I have not been optimistic about very much following the Ukraine crisis so I thank you for giving us a bright spot again I just want to remind colleagues this isn't on the record discussion and we are going to bring you into the conversation in just a few moments I would like to play the role of doubting Thomas a little bit and talk a little bit about how the stars have aligned because as hopeful as encouraging this is that it is coming from the bottom up this is a community led process not a top down approach you know we can't not talk about what the Republic of Cyprus has gone through in the last year of a devastating economic crisis the government is now in a minority government having one of the coalition partners the Democratic Party leaving because the February declaration was signed the external environment Syria conflict I'd love your reflections on how the crisis in Ukraine and Crimea and the Russian element to this if this has any play into that while the stars are aligned internally it feels geopolitically that there is so much going on economically, militarily, politically that could this have an impact or honestly because this is within the communities they are aligning what is going on it's slightly immune to the geopolitics and I'll let you respond and then I have a few other follow up questions I think you are touching the core of the issue but to start by the last comment you made I believe that exactly because we are going through a very troubled period be it Russia, Ukraine, Crimea, etc be it Syria because things are running a bit out of control there we need somewhere to start by having, getting something right and from this point of view I think we managed in recent months to insulate a little bit the effort for the settlement in Cyprus from all those factors that are happening around and we believe that if we manage we can provide the best possible way forward and pave the way to address other issues that are important and are lingering in this part of the world so for the time being at least we didn't see any negative effect on the process either from the internal developments in Turkey and we all know what happened over the last eight months nor from what is happening now with the results of the municipal elections and that they are about to start the campaign for the presidential elections, etc so far we felt that there was a constant commitment and a strategic decision to move forward we don't know how far this will go we cannot predict but what we can say is that in Cyprus if you like the very difficult economic situation the devastating crisis as you mentioned that is going on for more than a year yes this had a negative effect first because the margin of maneuver is much more limited and people fear that at the end of the day because you are weak economically somebody will impose something on you so they are very skeptical and very concerned and every time there is something you know it is examined from one hundredth point of view in order to make sure that there is nothing wrong happening but at the same time everybody understands that where we to solve the problem this will give a great boost into the economy of the country and will allow the economy of Cyprus to fully take its stride so in the minds of people there are both feelings on the one hand they are scared but if we manage to convince them that what we are doing will be a balanced and fair settlement that will unlock the potential of the country maybe they will be willing to go along if you add the fact that we had those discoveries of hydrocarbons in the maritime zones of Cyprus and the prospects of cooperation with Israel in that regard and in many other issues or many other issues the conditions for a brighter future are there if you like and I believe that this eventually will help in maintaining the impetus that we have now for the settlement of the Cyprus problem the real difficulty is that so far in spite of all the good intentions and the determination demonstrated by everybody we have not seen any concrete results in the negotiations maybe it was expected because we are at an initial stage but you cannot talk about settlement very soon unless you have agreement on issues like territory like property like governance security guarantees the problem of the settlers questions of how do you elect the head of state and government how do you govern the country all those issues are open so it's too early to say anything about the results we have no results but there is commitment and determination and the moment of truth is close Well, that's into my next question about sort of the sense of timing and timeline it seems following your comments that confidence-building measures are going to have to be seen fairly quickly to sort of build in some of these early results to build on the positive rhetoric but we are also looking at a fairly daunting political schedule for Turkey presidential elections and August general elections next year this is on its own time but are there some markers that progress will need to be seen at certain points or it runs into the tyranny of elections and political cycles again here the feeling we are getting and I had discussed this issue during my visit in Ankara was that you know nobody can predict 100% but the commitment and the strategic decision of Turkey to work towards a settlement will not be directly affected by the municipal elections or the forthcoming presidential elections or what will happen next year and we have not seen for the time being any impact the commitment remains we need to see if we manage to insulate again the process from what is happening around this would be a very good thing and we hope this will be the case at the same time all of us you know we understand that in international life there are sometimes windows of opportunity those windows do not remain open forever so there is a notion that we need to do our utmost to achieve results as soon as possible what we cannot say is that you know we fix an artificial deadline this does not make any sense only progress can determine the pace of the negotiation but at the same time we need to have a notion of urgency I don't know how many months it will take one year or two years I don't know but we all understand that this window will not stay open forever so we have this in mind all of us and we are working we believe that the UN they are doing a good job in their good office admission we need more support in the European Union and there is a divergence between ourselves and the Tachyceps prototype because they don't want the involvement of the European Union we believe that it is in the interest of the negotiation and it is in the interest of Cyprus to have more involvement because we are members of the European Union but slowly, slowly we will manage to get the right process if you like and if possible achieve fairly soon more concrete results that will make if you like after a certain point the process irreversible and this will be the most crucial point I don't know when this will happen but we are working in this direction Mr. Besser, my last question is on energy and on the energy resources I understand the politics of the energy I'm wondering if the economics of the energy can meet the needs of the politics and reading various articles about, you know, question of the amount of energy that's there some of the challenges of whether it's economically feasible to build LNG facilities or pipelines and things like that how much to sort of the practicalities of the economics of bringing these resources to market or whatever the discoverable resources are there how much will that ultimately impact the negotiation This is a very good question I think that everybody has in mind this dimension and though we are not talking about this negotiating table, we know very well that if there is an enhanced American interest it's partly because of the energy issue and if there is a change in the policy of Turkey towards Cyprus, again it has to do with the energy issue and the new approach Turkey seems to adopt in terms of its economic weight in the area in trying to build more avenues of cooperation between the countries in the region and the energy is key to this Now Cyprus has for the time being some confirmed discoveries of natural gas in the area between Cyprus and Israel Those reserves are important They could cover our own needs for 60 years internal needs and you know that today Cyprus has the highest cost of energy in Europe so where it only to be for our national needs this would be very important because if we manage to divide the cost of energy by two we can solve economic problems we have destroyed the industrial tissue of the country the industrial fabric because since the 80s at the time we were thinking it was the cost of labour but we discover that it's mainly the cost of energy so if we divide the cost of energy by two for our domestic needs already this will be very very important but there is more than that we are trying to find ways of cooperation between Cyprus and Israel in order to have joined exploitation of natural gas possibly if we have an agreement with Israel the construction of an LNG facility in Cyprus will become feasible in the very near future but we are waiting also for the results of other explorations by other companies in other blocks south of Cyprus by the French company Tordale and the Italian company Eni with very good prospects so most probably in a couple of years we are going to have a very different picture but even what we have right now there is enough material in order to build something completely new potentially with a very optimistic scenario we can contemplate an LNG and later in the future even a pipeline that will link Israel Cyprus probably the reserves of Lebanon Cyprus and Greece to Europe and this will be a very important contribution to the energy security of the European Union which as you know today is put into question through the most predictable and reliable corridor that can exist because it only goes through members of the European Union so but this is the future we are not there yet we don't have a confirmed you know reserves in the other blocks what we have and we expect to that noble energy where they made this discovery they will have they will find additional quantities but as I was saying is already very substantial and in this equation there is also the question of what do we do with Turkey as enormous energy needs and they would like to find ways to cooperate with Israel on this and possibly with Cyprus and this is a very fundamental incentive for them to solve the Cyprus problem because we all know that for the cooperation in the energy field between Israel and Turkey or Cyprus and Turkey precondition is of the Cyprus problem and tomorrow as I was saying Lebanon if they discover also natural gas the day after tomorrow maybe the Palestinians and apparently there were some indications that you know in the sea outside Gaza there might be important reserves as well so the whole equation might change slowly slowly and Cyprus in this new situation maybe for the first time in its history is not a demand there everybody else needs Cyprus and it does not happen very often to us usually it's the other way around so this will mean that we can play a role and the settlement should be such as to allow Cyprus to play this role and I believe that there is a much better understanding on behalf of the United States of this importance of Cyprus right now and this is why we have this enhanced American interest which for the first time ever is separate from the Greco-Turkish dimension you know until now and I suppose you are here long enough to listen to previous interventions where everybody was saying you know we need to solve this Cyprus problem because this is a thorn in Greco-Turkish relation even President Obama went to Istanbul last year to mention this story and you know all they were saying you know this is a problem that needs to be sorted out because it affects the south-east and dimension of NATO and these kind of things now the American policy towards Cyprus and this Mediterranean has some autonomy with regard to Greece and Turkey and it is because of the energy dimension fascinating alright we'd love to welcome you into this conversation if you have a question we have microphones if you could please raise your hand and please give us your name and your affiliation we like our questions provocative and tough and our comments short so with that please welcome any questions yes sir right down the front good afternoon Mr. Ambassador Nicolay Rigaque as president of the American Hellenic Institute you touched on a lot of subject matters here today and obviously you said there is a window and there is an opportunity that you mentioned obviously you went and visited in Ankara there was a counterpart who went and visited in Greece nonetheless though you also mentioned that Turkey still is a key element in this whole thing and unfortunately it was alluded to that through the prism of so many other geopolitical factors has always been defined how people review and look at the Cyprus problem I unfortunately feel that's still the case notwithstanding some of the previous comments haven't stated that you're here in Washington you're going to meet with people believe in the administration state department and others two quick points one questions rather one can you please tell us what you would like to see more succinctly from the United States administration from the Obama administration moving forward in these negotiations and frankly Turkey is still a key in this as you mentioned so what do you want to see in some succinct points from Turkey moving forward in these negotiations because as we've seen in the last year or so things in Turkey with Mr. Erdogan being very unpredictable even though he just had a major landslide victory again and now we have another election coming up you know and every time you turn around there's another election coming up in Turkey which is part of the prism of how the West views this issue but again they are important to this moving forward what do you want to see from these two major players the United States and Turkey thank you very much Mr. LaLengaghi this is a very very interesting question both of them first let me start by saying that what I'm trying to sell here is the fact that Cyprus is this part of the world may be along Israel and begun of stability and predictability and the West should be able to rely on us but this is a factor which is of paramount importance and has to continue to be there so what the United States need to do is to integrate into their understanding and approach towards the Cyprus problem these need to have Cyprus remaining as an autonomous and independent actor and player we shouldn't as I was saying before through a bad settlement neutralize Cyprus and put it in the hands of Turkey so and the same exactly the same message applies to Turkey we need to convince Turkey that it is not through trying to control Cyprus or to say that they have rights over Cyprus that we can find a settlement to the Cyprus problem we cannot go on like that we cannot have you know those arrangements of security and guarantees that are things of the past today we have a country which is a member of the European Union and which has the right to fully play its part in the region so that's it in a nutshell what I would like to see and from the United States we would like to see exactly this that we need to preserve Cyprus as an alternative route from west to east and from east to west and decisions to be concerning Cyprus and concerning our future processes to be taken by us and as a law can May I follow up on that so I would like to pull out and maybe you can provide a little more detail on the role of the EU who in the EU is driving the policy and the engagement that sort of question one and how does this sort of the US-Turkey question I'll ask it how does the EU-Turkey relationship mention sort of the difference of opinion on the role of the EU how does that play out here now that process is the EU-Turkish accession process is a little bit of life breathed back into it but it's not going very far obviously because of the domestic situation within Turkey today okay this is a perennial question the EU which number to die on okay but indeed it is important to see what is happening and what we have today is as I was saying kind of awareness increased awareness in all human best states and all of our partners concerning both the importance of Cyprus in terms of being the bridge towards our part of the world and also potentially in terms of energy security so but this is in member states institutionally you know the problem of the European Union is that you have various institutions that are unequal footing and each one of them is very jealous of their powers and prerogatives and let me tell you from my experience as president of the council European Union that the most challenging task I was facing was to make the institutions work together in synergy and osmosis and this is the main role of the rotating presidency of the union right now having said that what we have is a representative of the commission who is part of the UN good offices mission and who is playing a role in trying to be helpful in order to have a settlement that will comply with the IKEA community and as far as we are concerned we want more of this and we want an enhanced role of this representative then there is the fact that the European commission always works in the occupied part of Cyprus with a very far-reaching program of assistance in order to help the Turkish Cypriot community and this is run by the commission and part of it is by communal projects as well and maybe tomorrow there will be some elements concerning the full implementation of the IKEA community throughout the island then we have of course the work that is being done by the European Parliament we have a renewed interest also by the Council and by the European Council on Cyprus you know on the one hand we all understand that this is of paramount importance but there is some suspicion on the part of Turkey because we are members Turkey is not a member they are prospect to join a very gloomy to be frank and honest with you in my discussions with Ankara my interlocutors were telling me that they don't believe that Turkey will eventually join but they want to be on track and play this game of accession negotiations but without believing that at the end they will join at the same time what was very important was to realize that we are accepting that for the Turkish Cypriot community being in the European Union as part of the unified Cyprus was important and that we can find there if you like the necessary tools in order to have a fair and workable settlement so this is what I can say about this as you were talking about the implementation of the Ankara protocols the thought that I came to my mind is if actually there was implementation of the Ankara protocols that would place a very daunting challenge before the European Union about moving a lot of chapters forward that have been blocked with that yes, questions we have one in the back Caroline right there thank you master, my name is Katarina Soku with Greek Daily Katharine I have two questions for you one is what would be a key community if it was enforced in the Turkish Cypriot side and the second one would be if a Turkish army is not acceptable would there be another solution that the Greek Cypriots would feel more comfortable with and what would that be a UN presence, an EU presence or nothing at all thank you I'm not sure I got your second question well but can you repeat the second question please so if there if my question would be if there wasn't a Turkish army anymore in Cyprus on the first one it's very clear that when Cyprus acceded to the European Union in 2004 the whole island became member of the European Union but the Aki Komino the EU legislation was suspended in the part which is not under the control of the government if we find a settlement this suspension will be lifted of course we will need some transitional periods but the idea is to obtain so we are not willing to discuss permanent derogations or exceptions, we need to have a unified country a unified economy and the freedoms of the European Union being implemented throughout the island otherwise we are going to create a kind of bandoustance within Cyprus and it's not helpful and it's not in the interest of either community so we insist a lot on this dimension and we believe that the implementation of the Aki of the European Union is the best guarantee for the security and the workability of the settlement now when it comes to the Turkish army of course for us it's withdrawal it's a sineguanon and we cannot accept that there will be any foreign troops on Cyprus nor that any country will have the right to intervene in the internal affairs of Cyprus we believe that we need any guarantees on any international protection, we are grown ups I mean there is no other country that has this kind of situations we believe that we have a system of collective security through the security council which is more than sufficient in case there is a threat to the peace and we don't believe that we need to have anything more than that it is true that from prime to time some other ideas are being floated but you know either to replace the Turkish contingent with the NATO contingent or with the European contingent etc personally I believe that none of those I mean ideas is good I believe that all we need to do is just to finish with this kind of things and allow Cyprus to be a normal European state which will be able to dispose in a sovereign way you know its territory, the use of its territory for the needs both of the European Union and possibly of the United Nations you know that now for instance we are helping a lot the United Nations for the Syrian operation in order to get rid of the chemical weapons so imagine after a settlement Cyprus is not able to embark on this kind of operations because we will need the approval of foreign actors I mean does not make any sense we believe that in order for us to fully take our stride we need to get rid of this kind of anachronistic approaches to the questions of security and guarantees two questions and we'll just take them together that's alright My name is Perry I'm from Nicosia Cyprus my question to you is more based on the actual natural gas you say that we can use it as a tool to our advantage but in actuality it seems like it's more of a hostage to the European Union to make sure that we can pay back our debts to make sure that we can actually find a solution and make sure that we don't accept Russia as our ally again that's what it seems to me at least at the same time I also want to ask you what do you think about specifically for the settlement with actual Turkish citizens on the occupied part of Cyprus that have been over the years displaced from Turkey into Cyprus will they be integrated with full rights will they be part of this federal solution how would that work for us Yes, please I'm John Koicce, former delegate to the United Nations Environment Program and I have two questions the first is the property for me that there is a tendency as we know before the occupation most of the population in Northern Cyprus as they call it was Greek and the people were displaced from property and the sincere desire of the Greek part is to have this property returned Yes and there is a tendency in my opinion on the Turkish side to compensate and on the other hand in the Republic of Cyprus the law is that if you come from any place like Republic of Papua New Guinea and paid by property which is more than 300,000 euro you become automatically permanent resident and this is an issue that I would like to know is that so or how shall we it's a very ticklish issue and the second question is I understood that the liquefied natural gas has two avenues one is the pipelines the floating platforms and then the liquefied natural gas ports and the question is what is the role of the port of Vasilikos Vasilikos and is it possible that while we develop the platforms we could put into operation ports like Vasilikos and accept liquefied natural gas from countries like Norway in order to supplement the need for energy thank you for example from Norway from Norway yes but in what form it will come as liquefied liquefied and that would be unloaded in Vasilikos while the work continues and who are the major protagonists from the corporations there is one single American company interested but now the people say China is interested Russia is interested of course South Korea will bring the platforms and just general economic question very interesting questions first let me say something about natural gas I don't believe that we are hostages of this to the contrary the discovery of natural gas allows Cyprus to become a bit of a player and eventually manage first to solve our own energy needs we have a commitment with the European Union that normally this year we need to use natural gas for the production of electricity and we are not going to be able to fulfill this commitment and we will ask for an extension so we need natural gas for our own needs immediately so whether this will be possible through our own reserves or whether we are going to have to strike and deal with another country be it Israel or be it somebody else we don't know most probably the level of cooperation with Israel is such that most probably we are going to have Israeli gas to cover our domestic needs but this is at the end of the day a provisional a transitional solution until we bring the natural gas through a pipeline from block 12 to Vasilikon and built the LNG for which as I was saying for the time being we don't have the quantities so we need additional quantities from other reserves be it Israeli or quantity we expect to discover in other blocks and we are going to know in the next couple of years most probably I mean the prospects are very very positive but it has to be clear however that the question of the natural gas is not part of the program of economic recovery of Cyprus so if we manage it will be a plus but our program does not contain any clause having to do with natural gas so the idea for us is that okay in the new situation after the crisis we need to build a new economic model Cyprus and certainly as I was alluding before if we manage to divide the cost of energy by two through our own natural gas you understand that this would allow us to build a new economic model that will be based on real economy which we don't have right now so it is of utmost importance and this will create a new future for the economy of Cyprus which for the time being relies more on business, on services on tourism and on shipping so industrial not much and it is important every business people in Cyprus will tell you that if they have moved their business industrial business out of Cyprus it was not because of the cost of labor but mainly because of the cost of energy and we pay the highest cost in energy in the European Union so when it comes to settlers of course our position is that without questioning the individual the march of any person which tries to find a better future for himself and his family and this was the main motivation of many people that came from Turkey at a collective level if this is a result of a deliberate policy to implant settlers by hundreds of thousands this is a completely different situation and this is a war crime and it is defined as such by international conventions so our position is that the settlers have to return to Turkey of course if this position of principle is accepted then we are going to be able in a humane way the particular cases and you know there are people that are born in Cyprus there are mixed marriages it's not about massive expulsions it's about finding a way to sort this problem out without having the settlers being part of the people that will vote in referendum we cannot if you like allow foreignness the future of our country so this has to be very very clear now on the question of the communities and the intermingling of the people I'm very happy you raised this because this exactly was the situation before 74 the two communities were living together throughout the island and it was a forceful separation after 74 and of course the settlement is to restore the rights of everybody the right to return to their place of origin and the right to recover their property through restitution of course the Turkish position was initially a global exchange of property and start again from zero but more and more I think we come to grips they come to grips with the idea to organize property rights and it is up to the owner, the dispossessed owner to decide about his property possibly he will decide you know to go back to take back part of it and opt for compensation for another part but the decision, the final decision has to be taken by the dispossessed owner this is our position the take is secured position is that the priority should be given to the current user so and you understand we are far apart on this and we need to find a way to reconcile those positions there is, there are in place the Pinero principles on property restitution that we are established by the United Nations these principles are very firm on the right of the dispossessed owners to have restitution of their property and only in case this is materially impossible you can go towards exchange compensation and other remedies what is materially impossible has to be defined very strictly for instance if on your property there was a motorway which has been built it is very difficult to take it back and then you will go for something else or a hospital or something but otherwise you need to restitute the property of the people now on the pipeline and the LNG in Basilico as I was saying there is some delay there because in order for foreign companies to invest in an LNG plant we know that they have the quantities in order to make it profitable the quantities are not there yet what we discovered is enough for our domestic needs it's enough for some exports but they are not sufficient in order to make an LNG plant viable so we need additional gas these gas might come from Israel where they have confirmed reserves much more important than ours it might come tomorrow from Lebanon or it might come from the results of additional explorations that are taking place in south of Cyprus by the French company Todal and the Italian company Eni now the existing discovery in the block 12 of the Exclusive Economic Zone of Cyprus is a contract between Cyprus and the American company Noble Energy and Noble Energy has an agreement with the Israeli company DELEC those two companies are working together and they can't provide the natural gas we need in Cyprus but before they do the necessary investment they prefer to wait and know whether we are going to build an LNG or not because if we are going to build an LNG you have another kind of a pipeline which will cost, let's say approximately 650 million dollars to build and you can't take the gas to the the LNG plant if you want to build a covered in domestic market you add a very small pipeline to the big one with an additional cost of only 70 million dollars and you can cover covered in domestic needs very easily so it's very cost effective but in order to build it you need to know that you have the big picture so this is how it works then there are other options that are being studied one of them is the so called CNG which is compressed natural gas there are some Canadian companies that are in the vanguard of this but this is very easy and you can go over reserve and then plug the ship and then just take the gas and you go and you plug it at the terminal and you take it out and then you go back and this is very easy and this is a method that has been tested but has not yet been commercially used anywhere so we are studying these various options and along with the Israelis the Israelis have also a floating LNG plant but it's a small one and we will see what will happen in the coming months we are going to see it clearer the fact is that there is also on the part of Turkey to have possibly CNG or LNG from Israel but ideally Turkey and everybody know that if there is a settlement in Cyprus the most profitable way is to have a pipeline going from Israel to Cyprus and from Cyprus to Turkey this is the most economical one if not and if Israel we might contemplate as I was saying a pipeline between Israel Cyprus and Greece, Italy and Europe so everything is open we need to see, it's too early Thank you, we'll take one last question Hello my name is Stephen I'm with the American Hellenic Institute thank you very much for coming here today and speaking my question has to do with the idea of Russia you briefly touched upon that I would just like you to comment on how negotiations with the Turkish Cypriots is going on there and future aspirations or plans that will come as of the future You know we consider the question of Varosha from Augusta is very important the process for solving the Cyprus problem is not just an ordinary confidence building measure because what this proposal entails if it were to be accepted it has as I was saying before four elements one is the transfer of the of Varosha the fenced area to the United Nations in order to prepare for its return to its Greek Cypriot inhabitants the use of the port of from Augusta for freedom of movement of goods within the European Union the implementation of the Ankara protocol and the freezing of the 8 chapters that have been frozen by the Council of the European Union exactly because of the refusal of Turkey to implement the Ankara protocol now by transferring Varosha to the United Nations what you do is that you allow you know 30,000 Greek Cypriot displaced persons to return to their homes then they recover their property then you give an important boost to the negotiating process because you send a very strong signal that this is the end game and of course this fenced area of Varosha cannot operate in isolation it has to work along with a master plan for the broader from Augusta Varosha area because it has to be economically viable we have and we have three areas there there is the fenced area of Varosha which is the one which is empty and has to be returned back to its Greek Cypriot inhabitants and then we had the old city of Famagusta within the walls which is inhabited by Turkish Cypriots and then we had the area north of Famagusta all three areas have to operate together in a master plan in order to have synergy and in order to have a sewage system to have new architecture most of the buildings under a league they need reconstruction and they need to operate together and through this package you can have a lot of trust and confidence being built and you will have private sector involvement because if you just transform the fenced area of Varosha to an imprisoned area with controlled access etc nobody will go to invest you need a more broad approach so we believe that where we to manage this we count a lot on civil society and initiatives that were taken locally by the municipalities and by business people where we to move forward with this package we might have the beginning of the solution of the Cyprus problem through this well Mr. Ambassador can we begin by saying thank you it's absolutely clear we need a resolution to the Cyprus problem and we are very happy that you are the point person to help bring some of that resolution thank you for sharing with us in a very candid and open manner the process, the dynamics, the opportunities the challenges thank you very much to our embassy colleagues thank you for our partnership here and allowing us to have this very frank and open conversation over the years we can increase that probably to every year and I hope you'll come back and give us an important update on where the process is and again thank you this is well the challenges are daunting and your last comment tells us how daunting the challenges remain we are going to be very hopeful that we see some very tangible progress in this very important part of the world very soon please join me in thanking