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I'm good. It's strange to be here. It's really strange to be the guest on a podcast instead of being the host. So a porn producer made pornos for over 10 years over 300 pornos to a man now exposing the industry. It's some shift that. Yeah not all of the industry but just the bad bits like since I've been doing this some people have been thinking I'm like an anti-porn person but I'm really not. Most people in the industry are good. I've had an incredible time in the industry. I love my friends. I love the experiences I've had. There's like a real sense of family that you get in the porn industry that you don't get in other industries I think. Yeah excellent friends. Porn stands but the callers there. What is it they call it outside that porn that's like a name she has for us? Civilians. Civilians yeah something like that. Some people hate that. Yeah that's what it is. But before we get into everything I always like to go back to the start of my guests.  Wow honestly I had probably an incredibly normal childhood. Just typical northern English lad working class family dad did alright so we had a good life. I guess I was socially awkward. I was always into music and things like that and I think like most socially awkward people you kind of become a bit obsessed with sex. You know if you're not doing something you're kind of always thinking about it right. So I think I was always fascinated by sex and then as I got older and started you know having more partners it kind of did become a lifestyle and so getting into porn was kind of a natural progression I think. When did you start watching porn? Watching oh probably like 12 or something. Whenever puberty hits strong you know. Yeah I used to watch the free view. I used to be like how was it called? Free view or something it was 10 minutes. Yeah for me it was VHS. My friend had this VHS and we're like four of us like our parents went to the shops or something was four of us sat around the TV not jerking off for anything but just watching it and you know it was copied so many times like the tracking was off and we were just mesmerized by it. When did you lose your virginity? 16. 16 which I guess is I don't know if it's early or after it. It's about late for me I was 16. I lost my virginity and I had a good relationship and I thought okay I've worked girls out now like time to expand so I kind of broke up for that relationship and I don't think I had sex again till I was 23. It was a way. Yeah it was crazy.  Yeah pretty much it was just like I was so socially awkward. I did not know how to talk to girls. I was like kind of guy if I go to a bar I would you know just stay with my friends. I didn't when I did say something it was awkward and weird and you know the only time I was like charismatic was when I was drunk enough to have confidence but by then you know you're so drunk no girl wants to be around you know. What about like were you fascinated when fascinated with porn were you fascinated with porn and kind of were you looking at it as just because you were not having sex where that was your form of building relationships. I don't know I think it wasn't I think you know like anyone that's not attractive to the opposite sex you have to I think some people will like blame the females right like for rejecting them but I think I was you know took it as okay I need to improve myself so I was always reading about business about improving your confidence about just any self-improvement I got into like a lot of self-help stuff which I find a bit scammy now but if it gives you that confidence to improve yourself then it's a good thing I think. Yeah of course man if you're lacking something it's good to understand. Yeah yeah and I think by the time I'd got to London I had I got a good job I started to become self-confident myself plus aging you know a skinny dorky lad is not so attractive but as you kind of grow into yourself I think you naturally become more attractive as you age as a man. What job did you do? At first I was in the gambling industry and then I moved into media I was like an editor publisher of like trade magazines. What gambling industry? Yeah. What did you do? At first I was just literally just working in a gambling shop. In the bookies? Yeah in the bookies and then I moved to like the head office and my plan was to try and like get into trading because that was that looked fun but I never got that far I was always quite entrepreneurial and I remember making some software that basically did my job for me but it was really hard to sell because how do you sell it to a department that employs 40 people that you don't you genuinely don't want to do yourself out of the job so yeah that was fun. How long did you do that for? Probably about three or four years but I did spend more time working in media I think that gave me the skills to get into porn because you know working in newspapers and magazines it's just content so you know we're making content we're learning how to monetize the content and the fact it was you know some boring magazine about packaging or printing or you know IT or something like that porn is just different content so when I got into porn originally I thought this is just a more fun version of my own job I thought it was going to be lucrative you know I thought porn was a very rich industry but it turned out it's actually quite a poor industry.  Yeah you know I think films like Boogie Knight influenced me it looked lucrative it looked you know like parties I just thought it'd be lots of parties lots of drugs lots of you know girls around all the time but the reality of running any websites is you're sat in the office doing nerdy stuff like SEO which worked well for me because I happen to be good at that stuff. What was the first partner you've done? Literally it took a long time to get started but I actually advertised on the internet for like a business partner so I was advertising for someone to go 50-50 a female obviously and we literally just started we still have a friendship and we just started you know making homemade sex tapes and it was supposed to be a side business but it was making so much money so quickly that it became the main one I had to give up my other business. How was it making money? Was it monetization, sponsors, how does it work? Yeah if you imagine it it was like we were making very homemade videos before OnlyFans existed so I think most porn companies were making very professional very slickly produced kind of fake looking porn videos and ours partly because we had no idea what we're doing and partly out of laziness maybe I don't know they just looked real and I think people liked that and it was just subscriptions we're just like charging $25 a month for you know all you can eat membership and it just kept growing. How did you get the people to do the scenes? It was just us two at the beginning so we didn't need people. So you were a porn star as well?  Sometimes it was I don't think people are watching porn for the man's face so you know if it's in there that's fine but you know the focus is all on the woman at least on the genre I was doing. So you start off kind of behind the scenes making pannos but then you end up making 300 and within probably more yeah 10 years so what's the steps to then become a successful porn producer? Yeah that's interesting I don't know if you remember like we didn't know like there was no manual most people that go into the industry they start as performers or start as like a camera man or lighting guy or something like that and then you work your way up to producing but with us we started as independent just like a couple but we're not together just friends and we're making money but we had to kind of teach ourselves so when we realized like okay we need to get other people on the site not just us we didn't even know how to book models we didn't know porn model agencies existed so first we were like messaging cam girls and things like that but they're not porn stars they're different so but eventually we found model agencies in Budapest and I moved there we both moved there in the end and that's when things really opened up and we felt part of the porn industry properly instead of just two independent people doing our own thing once we moved there it was okay we're part of something now and we started to get nominated for awards and things like that and you know it's a very small industry worldwide so everybody kind of knows each other. What's the biggest point you made? It doesn't really work like on our sites because it's just one website and you know you join it and that's it so it wasn't like you know I guess it was just at the start of that time when DVDs were dying. Can anybody use your content and put it on other sites? Yes I mean there's a lot of piracy but piracy is kind of good for business you know someone that's searching for free porn is probably not going to pay anyway so it's just exposure right.  Honestly ours was quite vanilla. Just to a share again? Yeah sometimes there'd be three sums and things but there's so much effort to because you know it's like porn sex you're not necessarily into each other so if it's just you and one girl it's quite easy to fake chemistry but when there's two girls to direct it's hard to manage like in porn we call them like a dick dodger like one girl or the other one do all the work and she'll just like stand to the side like smiling you know so you have to the more people you have the more cuts there are the more like direction you have to give people it gets tricky and in the end our brand was we were aiming it more at geeks because we did like some cosplay we I mean our site was a bit weird we did like movie reviews and things like that we tried to make it more of a lifestyle thing just with porn so a bit like Playboy was back in the day only we're appealing more to like geek culture like things we're into. Is that because of yourself? Both of us I'd say we did you see the market because that's the way you were? I think we just knew we had to blog for example to get traffic so for to get search traffic we just had to blog a lot so we just blogged about the things we knew about my business partner that was things like you know anime and manga and things like that for me I had that kind of more self-help interest we just tried to share that I'm just sex tips dating strategies anything like that because you know once you've you know jerked off you're probably not going to watch porn anymore but there's stuff for them to read as well so it was a very vanilla site we I'd say our audience was very young not particularly inexperienced and there's another aspect is that at the time the UK government was pushing these kind of anti-porn measures I don't know if you remember them but they started finding porn producers that were doing extreme acts it was things like spanking strangulation anything seen as violent towards women they were finding them like I think it was two thousand euros and threatening to block their site and at the time we kind of were really against it I think there's even media coverage of us being against it I think there was a porn stars like doing a spanking protest outside parliament and things like that but I think the intention behind that was right but it it's you know trampling on free speech and on people's jobs what does it take to make up on them just a camera just a phone yeah is it much directing or because I've interviewed porno porn stars and they'd say it can be ours you can be there all day well whether 16 hours certain shots first of all they do the the shots first they'll get the camera angles first with the photos mm-hmm and then they'll get into whatever scenes are doing yeah that there's a lot there's a lot of unnecessary stuff it depends on the porn production and like some are more artistic than others some do things a certain way because they always have so the typical way when I first started was you'll do the pictures because before porn hub you advertised your scenes on sites called like thumbnail gallery posts so it was just like a collection of free porn but pictures and then you joined the website for the video so you do the pictures for that you would do a softcore version for TVX and you know the TV channels they can't show penises can't show vaginas so softcore version and then you do the hard version as well this episode is sponsored by fire away pizza the fastest grown pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores with the fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas they will have you coming back for more use code James 20 for 20% off that's James 20 for 20% off plus you know you've got to wait for makeup to be done lights to be set up you might have different lights for photos different but a lot of these long days are simply because of disorganization like there's no need to keep someone for 16 hours in some cases it might even be a deliberate strategy to make girls tired and exhausted so they say yes to things more easily not 100% sure of that but it's a suspicion because you know there's you're not going to film more than two hours of fucking it's just there's no need then the guys take anything for erections viagra actions this is a bit of a campaign of mine I hate this so much that there's a lot of pressure on the men to inject their penis with there's different drugs I think the most common ones is trimmix or caverject but it's like a form of Viagra you inject it with one drug to make yourself go up and you inject it again to make it go down and the truth is that if you remember porn back in the day most of the guys were ugly as hell because there were not many people in the world that could get an erection on camera in front of lots of people with pressure with any girl no matter what she looked like and stay hard that whole time including between takes and get up again when you need to and then the hardest part is often coming on command like when it's time to come you need to come you can't be like waiting around 15 minutes to finish and there were not many guys in the world that could do that but with the injection anyone can be a porn star like maybe not anyone but like if you inject it with this drug it's going up the problem is it's incredibly dangerous so many men in the industry are having they call it like heart attack of your dick basically the blood stops flowing and the penis will go black and you have to be taken to the emergency room because the doctors have to like drain the blood almost like save the penis it's incredibly dangerous and obviously they're obtaining these drugs without a prescription which and no porn production is the porn production if you speak to them they'll say oh well we're not encouraging this but they are it's unspoken but if you're a guy that injects you get more work because you're easier to work with we don't have to be nice to you we you know you can we can treat the men like shit and they still get hard and do their job so it's just all they want is to do the scene as quickly and efficiently as possible another downside of that is these guys can't feel anything in their dick so like they can thrust a lot harder without hurting themselves which obviously hurts the girls more the hardness from an injected dick it's a lot stiffer and it can just be uncomfortable for the girls you know so there's a lot of downsides to it I think for me the biggest problem is the health of the men there's quite a few guys some have had to have surgeries to have a pump put into their penis so they literally pump it up with a saline solution that makes their dick hard and puts it down again many guys can't even have an orgasm they not on camera so they're injecting their penis with I think it's a mixture of like some sort of baking soda and then just doing a fake come shots because they can't come on camera but I wonder about these guys if they in their private life how do they fuck because you know they're destroying their penises they're destroying this extra I've they're destroying the sexuality just so they can be on camera and be this hero you know it's not a great deal of money as a male performer but when you're going through that did you see the destruction there or were you just thinking about business and making money I was right at the beginning of the injection becoming common so for me it was a shock but the porn I'm doing it's like you know just me the girl maybe one of the person watching is very easy when there's maybe six people around watching it's a lot harder and plus I'm in control of the porn shoot so you know we can chill we can have coffees we can relax get to know each other on other sets it's more just like okay let's do it so it's another time I saw it was getting more popular the injection and now I just even the guys that didn't inject before they do now because they have to compete how many how many porn stars did you work with I would only book guys that didn't inject so not many I had like a close friend really good guy whenever I need a guy always use him when I've had to use others they don't know your style you have to teach them so I prefer to work with the same person all the time because obviously were you exposing the porn industry and the darkness and some of the fields in it do you ever feel like a target or a happy credit people say will you done it so people might not believe you as much I don't know I some people in the porn industry have been trying to kind of discredit me like oh he's not really in porn it's like well I am I was you know my company was nominated for awards most years or one awards so you know we're doing something right we know a lot of people I think we're just so that's how they tried to discredit me I think people are quite surprised to see me speaking out because like one I mail and two I'm in the business a lot of people have spoken out about the porn industry before but they tend to be girls I would have quit and usually they found God as well so usually become very Christian and kind of rejects the porn industry afterwards because I've got friends porn stars only fans love it I see the sadness in the rise I'm not daft I feel the energy towards them and I know the destruction it is causing no matter how much money they make I also have people who's was in the porn industry successful porn stars and absolutely despise it speak out about it about the abuse about the rapes about everything and it's crazy to see the both I'm not in the porn industry I can only let people who love it talk about how much they make and and I can also let people on who despise it and try and expose it that's why it's good to just have both sides because when I say somebody's exposing the porn industry you'll see porn stars the porn industry is good and it's this and it's safe and I've never came across any of that just because you ain't came across that doesn't mean nobody else has yeah to say that as well they're protecting someone because everybody's seen something bad yeah and you know yeah like everybody's seen something bad everyone it's a very small industry so if you haven't sat there while one of your friends is in tears over something that's happened to them then like I don't know how you can be in the industry and that not happen unless you're like particularly anti social and no one's going to open up to you but you know it's a very tight knit industry everybody knows each other or knows you know friends of friends do you think because the girls are porn stars that is that an easier target to be abused it's a good question I don't know I feel and like I say for me most of the industry is good I think where the porn industry has a problem when there is an abuser we protect them and I know that because I've done it when the allegations came out about Ron Jeremy about James Dean I was saying the same kind of victim blaming things like well they didn't go to the police so it can't have happened or like yeah but you know he's a really nice guy he's been nice to me so I can't imagine him being bad to someone else so I've been guilty of it protect your own industry protect your friends protect your industry and what like James Dean and Ron Jeremy for example like James Dean he was he had a big me to scandal in America or one Jeremy he was fucking he was yeah he was very kind to us and you know we saw people lining up to be groped by him so we justified it that way like look people are lining up to grope him so he like that's his thing if you're lining up you're going to get groped because that's why you're in the line but you know in that made us kind of not even be curious about the stories out there from girls that said they raped he raped them so I think we all do that like when it's not just people in the porn industry do that is it's mothers and fathers do it you know when a child's been abused you don't believe that your partner could abuse your child and you don't believe that the person you love most in the world could abuse the other person you love most in the world so that's an extreme case but if a mother won't believe that her husband or can abuse their child then in porn where we're not even that close not as close as that relationship you know how do you believe it it's really hard to believe women that speak out so Ron Jeremy girls used to queue up for him to abuse them yeah like the fan events like they'd be aligned two or three hours long of girls and guys waiting for like Ron to like sign their boobs and he would grope them squeeze them whatever I suck them anything like he was and he would be sat there in like jogging bottoms with like food stains all over him he really was this just slob just a sleazy slob that was the character he was playing but that was really him he didn't care you know and you know everyone knew you know going there on you get squeezed but we all accepted it as like this fun personality trait I mean he did create that but you know looking back you have to think was that did that just become like a cover for the bad things he allegedly did yeah that's a bad that seems like like you says a cover-up where he's the porn star and people are saying he's grabbing them but that's then slob just absolutely especially if someone's lining up to do it yes but then he was like groping everybody he came across you know and there were videos posted online but by a girl that I can't remember the girl that exposed him in the first place but how many charges did he get and there were over 30 I believe going back from when do you know from the 80s I think yeah so it's not a case as we're in that industry and he's been so damaged by it and it's been so normalised that girls letting them fucking grope him I suspect that abuse has been embedded within the porn industry for a long time and it's only the me too movement that removed that I've heard many stories from the older guys in in porn that it was just kind of expected that models have to do sexual favours for directors and producers and owners and the you know the overlap between porn and prostitution it that also causes a lot of you know strange things to happen let's say especially in America where prostitution is illegal there's a big case at the moment with a British producer so he was British performer and then started an agency Derek Hay I don't know if you come across him he's been charged with pimping and pandering and what he was allegedly doing is he was had the agency for the porn stars and then he was just be careful what I say he was allegedly starving them of porn work because when you book a porn model the agent only gets a hundred dollar fee but if she's escorting she's charging like three thousand dollars an hour in America and he gets thirty percent so it's a huge difference so apparently allegedly he was denying them work in porn making them need money and then pushing them towards the escort agency what's the difference makes him bad question but for people what's the difference from prostitution and porn they're both getting paid to fuck I think the difference is with prostitution you're there to please the man you know you were the product whereas with porn you're making a video but you're there to please you know the camera it's there is an overlap definitely especially with only fans in the days of only fans there's definitely guys that are doing prostitution as a hobby you know and sharing the videos on their only fans they're not making money they're just funding it from their day job but you know is that a failed porn business or is it a hobby I don't know so there's a gray area in the middle but I'd say the difference is and you know not every porn star wants to be a prostitute and not every prostitute wants to be a porn star but there are some that like and are happy to do both and before only fans that was how you made your money you would do porn to get famous and then prostitution to just make a bucket load of cash it's mad to think because it's all the usual suspects from stripping to escort to porn it's all kind of under the same umbrella do you see the difference from people who's in the industry a long time the kind of not demise of them but they like a tired some just kind of you see wearing tear in them no I don't know I see I think everyone has like a type of sex work they're comfortable with everyone that's a sex work it's like you know some people like I think porn is maybe the most extreme type of sex work maybe escorting next because you maintain some privacy like it's the whole world doesn't know you do it so if you stop and it's traumatic for you your trauma ends and you can start working on yourself whereas with porn if you regret doing it you've got to relive your trauma every time you see a video or someone reminds you of it you know for the rest of your life so I think porn is the most extreme and then you know escorting because of the danger of meeting people when you know a webcam similar to porn but it's more tame you're not doing anything you know people are not going to be as judgmental about a girl masturbating on the internet as they are about a girl being fucked on the internet because they've got a casting coach in America that talk about for the actors and actresses but for somebody who's going for a job as a stripper the manager of sales trip show me what you've got so for porn where do you where do you separate from okay if you want to be a porn star they'll really see you do it where's the fine line of manipulation and trafficking and how do I know if you're good casting for porn is pictures send me pictures in video because that's what's important if the agent tries to have sex with the girl that's grossly just wrong just incredibly wrong it does happen it really does happen especially in Europe but I think it's more fake model agencies will do that to people there's a lot of fake model agencies that are just a guy scamming girls into having sex because I says that the girl who was Charlotte Kirk who was exposed in King the Hollywood she had the big court case and stuff but girls who are willing to sleep whoever it is to get to the levels they've got and the men doing it where's the who who's that go against and where's the line for that do you know I mean if somebody's saying well I want to be massive in the porn industry sleep whoever I want I want to sleep with a big name so I can move up the radar and the guys are quite willing to do that as well yeah like sleeping with people won't make your name bigger in porn the thing that makes you big in porn is your social media nothing else matters really can some porn companies help with that help with your fame yeah not many of them but not many of them have that power will they pretend that they'll be good for your career yes they will say it's tricky but there's no one you can sleep with that will help your career in porn it's not like Hollywood where you can sleep with someone or in the music industry even we can sleep with someone and that can open up a door and a new opportunity for you because like no one like it's hard to find models to have sex on camera so so long as they like your look or so long as you've got a lot of social media followers they're going to shoot you like nothing no no they're not gonna go I'm gonna shoot you because this guy says you're a great person it's really easy to get a scene you just say yeah I'd like to work for you here's my fee do you do you want to shoot me like no one there's no way of getting extra work like that do you end up shooting hundreds upon those working with porn stars all around the world to then speaking out against that then destroy something that you've worked on something that you love some he made money from where's the how does that come about what was the moment it was I started a podcast I started I said I'm a very socially awkward guy and in lockdown I tried to like boost my confidence just posting pictures to Instagram and some point I started talking and eventually developed into a podcast a podcast about you know just for men just to help men like me that maybe struggled with you know getting girls understanding sex having good relationships and the way I was doing that was just interviewing porn stars because that's who I knew that's the celebrities that I had access to in Europe and we were doing an episode about rough sex because it's always been interesting to me I've heard a lot of girls complain that when they have sex with a guy in their private life he'll often be really rough with them and hurt them and just do things that they didn't expect and they didn't ask for so we thought let's try and you know help guys like teaching about consent and all this stuff and on the podcast Nelly Kent who's a porn star she told us about how violent Rocco Sephardi is if you don't know Rocco Sephardi is one of the most famous porn actors of last 30 years he's Italian he's a genuine celebrity in Italy and maybe the biggest producer in Budapest where I live and she told me about the violence and I even asked her on the show you know why is no one else speaking out about this and she said because I'm the only one that's brave enough everybody else they you know depend on other people for money they worried about their careers but I'm independent so you know I'm the only brave one and then after that show came out it started to go viral on tiktok and things like that she freaked out like absolutely freaked and she called me and she was saying you know everybody's getting on to her she's you know she's just begging me to remove the podcast basically and Rocco Sephardi and also a model agency called Brillwabs who were not her agent they used to be her agent years ago they'd both been contacting the girl I don't know what they said to her but she felt threatened enough so I want to remove the podcast and when I spoke to Rocco and to the agent and they were stupid and they left in the screenshots that they sent me I could see that they'd got this agent to act like a bottom bitch basically in pimp terminology like an enforcer of the girls that did not work for them and remember a model agent should work for the model like why would they be so when a model speaks out about a producer the model should be on the performance side right helping her oh my god really like how do we stop this we still send girls to him but no she was silencing the model and I've been living in Budapest the same city as Rocco the same city as Pierre Woodman and I've heard so many bad stories about them directly from girls and I never spoke out about it I said the responsibility was the girls I said I was always complaining I say you know European girls are so weak they're so cowardly the American girls when they have a problem they speak out on Twitter and they get it stopped and you know why don't the European girls speak out but once they did speak out on my podcast I saw that they get silenced I've also got a witness that witnessed Nellie being very scared a Chris it was like around Christmas time so she was said that they were all at this Christmas party and this girl was basically paraded in front of everybody apologizing like crazy to Rocco apologizing to this agent and just looking scared and they thought it was like to make an example of her in front of all the girls in the business you know if you speak out this is going to be you how much abuse goes on in the porn industry a lot of abuse by not many people I think that's the best way describing it because no but when you if you're a girl that joins the porn industry usually you're young like 18 to 21 and there's no onboarding process the way you get introduced is either a production starts you or more likely an agent starts you and the agent should be telling you things to watch out for how to be safe all of this stuff but in Europe it's not really like that they're more concerned with I think they get kickbacks from producers because everyone wants to have a girl's first scene and new girls are naive and they're more easily manipulated more easily bullied more easily threatened into doing things they would never normally say yes to and this is the thing I saw with Rocco at the beginning when Nelly was silenced I thought like shit if it was like a just a paradigm shift for me I just felt so bad because I blame the girls for not speaking out and I could have spoken out eight years ago I just thought it was their responsibility but once she was silenced I felt I had to so I thought okay let's dig around the internet let's see what I find and in five minutes I found videos of what can only be described as Rocco Sephardi raping girls and that's my expert opinion as a porn producer because you know he's the videos I don't know if you saw the videos I sent you but they're so disturbing I saw the links on Twitter but it looks as if you were watching an iPad yeah I was watching my iPad I was like reacting to them yeah and I made them into a cartoon just to try and tone them down a bit but I couldn't put them on YouTube and like the girls are saying he's what he's doing is he's asking for anal sex in the middle of the scene and that's not what you do because everything should be planned beforehand like days before so that the girl can decide for herself do I want to do this yes or no asking her on the day when you're very he's a celebrity he's a powerful figure he's a powerful figure in the industry like you know what I was it's like imagine imagine how it feels to be it's incredibly intimidated atmosphere and then you're being pushed into anal sex he says I want I want to have anal sex with you the girl says no so that should be it right it's her decision and then it's not that it's constant pressure so it's definitely coercion in that sense and then when the girls are saying no he's fucking their ass anyway and so he's forcing it upon them and one of the videos for example the girls saying stop stop it hurts and he just says but I like it and these are videos that Rocco is not an independent producer like I am he produces independently but then his films are distributed by the biggest porn company in the world a lot of people think mind geek who own porn hub with the biggest porn company in the world but for actual professional productions it's gamma entertainment they're also based in Montreal Canada the same as porn hub but they were like the biggest one in the world were watching videos of girls being raped and putting them on the website and selling them and that's an incredible thing because you just I just didn't expect that I'd be in the industry for so long but I don't I guess because I'm making porn I don't watch porn so much anymore but and it's not a small number of people it's millions of people watching girls being completely traumatized the trauma that girls experience when they are subjected to something like this is life-changing and completely life changing one of the girls that was a obvious victim she took her own life I don't know if she took her life because of the trauma she experienced in porn but I wouldn't surprise me if that was the case I was speaking to a woman who's coming on actually in a couple of months she's got a bit coming out but she exposes porn hub Is that Patricia? American women so she's exposing porn hub and she's just talking about the underage sex it's on it the rape it's on it Oh Layla maybe Layla yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they've been helping me actually yeah so she was coming on but she says she's got a bit coming out so she'll come on end of the year and I just see her posts on twitter man I'm thinking her work is incredible dark man but yeah why does the porn sites allow this why is underage sex allowed why is the rapes allowed why is the abuse allowed because they say over 80% the porn on the internet is abuse I don't I they say I think that stat is violent but it depends how you define violent right if something is consensual like people get rough with sex in their private life but when the roughness is wanted and boundaries are set it's fine it's fun you know you explore whatever kink or craziness you want so long as you know you both want to do it but in porn you're not doing it because you want to do it you're doing it because you're being paid to do it and if someone crosses your boundary like that's just flat out abuse it's and there's no need for it this is the thing we forget I call rockers porn domestic abuse porn because that's what it is it's just domestic violence it the girls not enjoying it she doesn't want it she's just tolerating as much as she can in trying to get through the scene because she wants to have a porn career and in Europe it's not like it is in the UK or America in Europe if you do one porn video any other career you want to have is gone you can't even I have a friend that she just works in a beautician and she lost her job because she was posting sexy photos to Instagram not porn but just bikini pictures like it is that conservative so you know once they've done a few porn videos they've got to kind of survive and you know they they at the beginning they will be abused by certain people do you think once around it's difficult to get out because I had a police officer on who used to share bikini photos and their sector as well there's a lot of bullying going on they feel as if because they're so in it they can't really go anywhere else but listen in life you can go anywhere else you do have choices but they feel as if that's the conditioning that happens when you go in that industry there's definitely a lot of conditioning in Europe was the biggest pool of models comes from Russia and the Ukraine and in my opinion that's pure sex trafficking those girls are like porn production is illegal in those countries like highly illegal the only people who are making it is organized criminals and they are getting as much what they do is they like they pay girls almost nothing like a hundred euros a scene for like gang bangs and things like that in Russia get as much out of them and they sell the videos to European productions in some of the videos it's obvious girls are being raped or even high on drugs all sorts of things like personally I don't think any porn produced in Russia or Ukraine should be legal because it's illegal to make it there so by definition it's illegal content and the girls you can't guarantee their safety when criminals are making content but I don't know because it's Russia and no one seems to care it's like you know who's caring about these Russian girls and then the European porn industry like once once they've kind of broken them in over there they send them to Europe on fake that they apply for tourist visas and then they stay indefinitely what they I won't say what they do now because there's I'm speaking to authorities about it but what they used to do is they would have access to a lawyer that would put fake visa stamps in their passport so that they could stay in Europe they would just overstay their visa and then after the three months was up they would send their passport to Russia fake stamp from immigration post it back and it looks like they've re-entered and okay these girls are from very poor places in Siberia they don't have many opportunities and you know being abused by the porn industry in Europe not that bad for them in many ways or they don't think it's that bad at the time you know I always used to justify it as oh they're here for a better life you know how does that make you feel when you knew what was going on eight years ago and you never says anything do you regret that it's destroyed me to be honest I just I didn't follow the logic of the information I knew I knew the girls were illegal immigrants but I didn't think oh what control does the agent have over them or how do they say no to someone on a porn set when their career and life in Europe can be taken away at any time you know because how do I how do they know a producer is not going to call immigration on them because they said no and I feel horrible for it at one point where I made jokes about it there was a Russian yoga cult and they were supplying most of the hottest girls in European porn and we're all making loads of money from these girls like they were crazy hot they were had like perfect gym bodies and this one guy in Russia he made he would train them and give them a diet and make them look hot and then pimp them out all over Europe in prostitution and in porn and we found it funny because they were in a cult and we just thought this guy was a legend none of us asked the girls about their welfare none of us but were you still caught up in that yeah just a lot we're making a lot of money and it's is that where you block out all the madness I think so because it's still a human being it's still human yeah at the time I was I was a I don't like to say alcoholic because I wasn't diagnosed but I had a drinking problem and I lived a very selfish life I didn't ask questions just I just didn't but now I realize like the suffering they went through because you were part of their so I was part of the suffering and is that why you're trying to do the right thing now I could be part of it definitely nearly triggered something just seeing her silenced and because it was my show I felt I had to to keep going really how bad is that you know you're talking about it because I've had porn stars on who love it I don't see that stuff for the same comments and I love this industry and are they British yeah yeah they won't see it they the British girls get special treatment by the European agencies because they're afraid of them because they know the British girls can speak out West European girls they will see abuse absolutely they will see abuse and no but they won't see the severe abuse that the Russian and Ukrainian girls are subject to how bad does it for those girls it's horrendous if we move on to like Pierre Woodman for example who is he he's probably the second most famous producer in Budapest he's a much darker character he like in when I was exposing Rocco I found a girl called Eva Berger and she was calling out Rocco in Russian media so I just shared it but she was also calling out Pierre Woodman and long story short she came on the podcast for an interview and went through it and it was so emotional even for me just to talk to her about it we sat and we watched the video of what happened to her and it was harrowing just watching how upset she was it took us nine hours to record the podcast because it was just so difficult to get to her so it was like it's like a sickness in your stomach you know and I'm not the victim like those kind of things they were doing to her were kicking her in the breasts kicking her in the ass at one point they suffocated her with a pillow they were fucking her ass with two penises in the ass at the same time and she was bleeding and they just carried on and the background to that and this is the way Woodman operates is he uses agents as like a bottom bitch to do the bad stuff to condition them and he would claim or he claims that you know so the girls get sent to him for just an interview just a casting a paid interview so they pay like 50 euros 60 euros something like this and the girls genuinely think it's just an interview or just a casting and then on the day he's got he pushes them and pushes and pushes them to do everything he wants to do something incredibly extreme often a gang bang often double anal double penetration and if you look at a lot of girls on his site they'll have only done anal or only done double penetration with him and that's because the agent is conditioning them by withholding any information about the shoot until the day and you can't like I imagine any other type of work where you don't know what the job is until you get there it's like I don't know if you when I was young I remember going I wanted a job in sales because I thought that's a good way to make money and I would go to these interviews and then I'd find out on the day it's door to door and you know if I didn't if I knew it was door to door I would have said no and then they're trying to sell you really hard on the job and it's like that only it's sexual assault and in many cases even sex trafficking in this case I'd say sexual assault an Eva's case in my opinion it's sexual assault because you know she didn't have an opportunity to say no it sounded like before the job she was her agent kept work away from her so she was poor and needed needed the work so she wasn't in any position to say no to anything and then once the scene happened you know she just had to get through it at drawing the scene she's screaming out like Woodman does a lot of theater to make things look consensual a lot of the bad people in porn they do a lot of elaborate videos to show that everything's okay like what? like just talking to the girls at the beginning saying okay it's going to be a rough scene but you know you can say no we'll stop but obviously what they don't show is the conditioning that happens with the agent so with the agent all the Russian girls are told you know to be successful in this industry you can't say no you can't say stop you're a Slavic girl Slavic girls are strong performers we don't quit so like they try and make it like a point of pride for them to never say no they say you know you don't want to be like the European girls they're so weak they say no and they're so fussy and can you imagine like that and this is in a systematic way but see if he's saying that at the start this is going to be rough you can say no is that not him coupled then? that's not consent consent like no but do you know what I mean if he's saying it's that if he's saying well I says it was a violent scene it was violent can he not say then it was all made up for the cameras and this and that exactly I think I think there's some manipulation there where he says well I've got that covered that's manipulation for the people who audit him like Visa and Mastercard because they audit the internet they control what porn is allowed and what porn's not and if you're not constrained in consent if you don't understand consent fully and these are financial institutions do they sign anything before they do it? you sign a model release I don't know if he uses consent forms currently but in porn generally a consent form is a positive acknowledgement of I want to do this but with Woodman nothing can be consensual and the reason for that is because they're not given a choice in an environment where they can say no so you imagine there's you there's your agents out there who can send you home at any time because you're an illegal immigrant and they're saying we're going to do this this this this this is that okay? yeah yeah you're not given a reason you can't even a lot of times when girls say no in porn they'll be like oh I'm sick you know so they take it like you're not going to that shoe I can't make that date I've got a job or whatever but when you're there on the day the girl doesn't have a way out and especially these very vulnerable girls who are working illegally like there's nothing in that but it's a deliberate process he could say to the girl weeks in advance I want a gang bang with four guys it'll be me as well remember he's a very old fat ugly hairy man and most girls don't want to have sex with him they'll prefer a different performer but you know on the day he it's hard to say no to him how do you say no to someone who can damage your career how do you say no to someone with the who's who you're told is the most famous producer in Budapest the biggest producer it's a very it's a deliberate situation where girls cannot say no very few girls say no the ones that do tend to be the girls that start a little bit older you know like girls like 24 25 they've got a little bit of experience dealing with men and maybe been in some had some life experience before and they can handle that situation what should be put in place to protect the women first we need to be checking work permits like I say it's it just seems such a big industry to stop by work permits because that would help with the Russian girls I've made a kind of like draft manifesto and for me it's giving girls the right to withdraw consent from the video after production so let's say a model comes for a shoot and she signs the model release I think for porn she should be given a month to say you know what I'm not going to let you use that scene and I think that would improve the industry so much because it shifts the power back onto the model because every producer will be treating models so well you know do you want drinks what do you want let's take you for food you know is this okay which guy do you want to work with today because you know you don't want to spend money on a scene and then the girls say no you can't use that so that for me I think it would take something really extreme like that to make all porn safe is there any good say's in the porn industry so many like I say the camaraderie is amazing I think especially with the girls a lot of I think there's a lot of broken people in the porn industry you know like myself I was a problem drinker when you're doing something like that you kind of destroy a lot of the close relationships in your life and porn is like a family for people that are maybe not so close to their family what made you turn to drink I think it was social anxiety just as it was really awkward and so to feel comfortable I was drinking a lot so it is a low vibrational kind of business I've interviewed enough people and I'm not daft enough I'm very aware of when I see things and like I said earlier I've got friends in the porn industry who I love to bits it's their choices I've got friends in the who do only fans male and female who I love to bits it's their choice it's not my choice I would never have my daughter doing it my son doing it I would never settle down with anybody in that industry but that's their choices and I don't hate them for it do you know what I mean? if they're happy which again I don't know if they ever truly are but some of them are so in denial as well and I can see that and I would never say well you're doing this wrong because it's their choices at that time whatever's serving them in that moment of life that's what they've chose and it's not me to say because I've made many wrong choices and many decisions that people were against still fucking done them so for me it's just as long as you're not harming anyone but when you're speaking about these men these cunts deserve to be fucking strong and put away because if they're putting scenes out there that's rape and abuse then how's it not been took down why haven't they been charged? I mean this is a big question I was speaking to a journalist today just about the situation in the UK with rape and police forces generally are not believing victims most rapes are not even reported when they are they're not been followed up the CPS is letting people down and this is in the UK so imagine what it's like in Hungary a country where they don't have woke politics it's very conservative there isn't a female rights movement it's like for example every girl I know in Budapest has been groped on public transport or in bars because it is normal there it's not acceptable but you know it's porn is really low down on the priorities list and I heard I've had examples of cases against sex workers being the rapist being found innocent because she's a sex worker like by judges they don't even have trial by jury in Hungary it's a judge that decides so it's there's people that are fighting to change things I'm now speaking with charities there made connections with the authorities as well all I can do is give them the information I have but I hope some action is taken but I think the sad truth is that when communism ended Eastern Europe became a hotbed of exploitation Romanian girls Russian girls Ukrainian girls even Hungarian girls they're the most trafficked in the world the scale of sex trafficking either through manipulation or through force in some cases especially in Russia it's off the charts and often they're trafficked into legal businesses like porn or German brothels sex the traffic human trafficking industry is bigger in the drug industry now with Harveston Oh really Harveston the body parts prostitution it's just it's a trillion dollar industry it's fucking scary and it's not just few thousand it's millions of people going missing every year and with the sailing of the heart they'll ever the kidneys and then they'll take them to prostitution and everything it's the hack of the world and I always like to try and see the benefits and the positives of life but because I'm not a viewer enough people man it makes me think fuck me how dark is this place I've had a really positive experience and I don't regret doing it I think Do you still do that? No I tried but I just I don't think I can For me personally looking from outside if you've done it then you're not different no matter how clean-cut it is that you're still in that industry for me I just feel that I have taken part in some horrible things not knowingly but I don't think that makes it right you know and I just feel like there's so many really great young up-and-coming productions I think we need to clear out companies like Gamma Entertainment they don't deserve to exist you know they've been monetizing rate videos their employees contacted me and they told me that people at the company they signed a letter complaining about Rocco's afraid his videos and the company said honor you've been too sensitive and they told me that as editors they were asked to edit out anything that looks rapey anything that looks too rapey so they knew about all this they've been hiding they've they were hosting his videos on a website called Adult Time which is like Pornhub but you pay for it it's like their biggest website and to protect Rocco instead of just cancelling him like that's all I wanted we're just going to apologize to the girls I thought they'd do the right thing you know fire him cut off his money stop him producing they set him up on their own domain so now you have to get his videos from his own website because I think they know he's high risk and when Pornhub were hosting were court hosting underage porn and rape porn and remember Pornhub like they weren't doing the crime they were just like Facebook or Twitter they were just hosting the videos like Pornhub weren't making rape porn they weren't making money deliberately from rape videos they were just managing the site badly but Gamma Entertainment they're knowingly selling rape videos and what happened to Mind Geek is like to Pornhub they lost Reason Mastercard Reason Mastercard said no you can't process with us anymore but when I told Reason Mastercard about Rocco there seems to be some collusion between either the merchant banks Reason Mastercard or Reason Mastercard and the company Gamma Entertainment and they've allowed Gamma to cover up their tracks they've deleted 2,000 of the videos from his website and they're just pretending you know all those rape videos don't exist how much does Pornhub make? not much only about 400 million a year but you see not much is still a lot and media it's small it's like you know one TV channel it's like the whole all of their properties like 400 million it's not even like um how much does these top porn stars make these men? men don't make much you know men are charging you know maybe 200 to 400 euros per scene and then on their only fans they don't make much money either unless they can appeal to gay fans but women huge money now like football and money but not in Europe only fans some of the girls are making six figures huge isn't that? but I know a lot of the men who are gay for a page are just sucking dick for money I think that crazy as well but people do whatever it is to survive in this world for me there's plenty of other options but yeah yeah that would be a step too far for me I'm fascinated by the topic though it's just yeah listen I'm fascinated by all topics I'm just interested in stories and why people do what they do and how they get involved you've been in the porn industry to then try to shed light on the sex cases in it and try to find more protection by all means listen sex sells it's one of the biggest things on the planet yeah that's why people do only fans because majority people are perverts they want to pay for it so and a lot of people listen a lot of men are lonely one third of men are virgins so you know you've been that geeky guy where you've been without sex and shit so people just want to feel a connection and interact with a female they're giving them attention facetime yes they're bleeding them for their money but it makes them feel a little part of something so it is a big commodity where people are making money we get it but there needs to be more protection and more understanding well wait a minute asking the right questions and signing forms to say well if I don't like that scene I need that took out I don't want to do that scene so I can go to the police so it wears my protection so how do you then with the stuff that you're doing what's the outcome you want to try and get put in place honestly my my goal is just really small I guess you know I live in Budapest officially I live in Budapest so I've kind of left now but are you feeling threatened I did receive threats from who um a lot like you know some of them are like silly like a PI woodman would like look up my business details send me my address and say oh I know where you live you know and it's like it's silly but um obviously my mom was worried more than me you know so she preferred me to be somewhere else just for my own safety and also a charity I was working with as I was informing them of what's happening they were concerned so I just I just followed their advice you know uh yeah listen it's not these ain't small charges these are charges that nobody wants to ever be charged with yeah and these guys will do whatever they want to take their career clearly I don't know all the ins and outs and I don't know these people but if they're if you're seeing what they're doing and their scenes is they're strong and I'm all in and they deserve to get what's fucking coming to them no matter if it's porn or not but because it's in that industry people think they'll turn their blind eye yeah this seems to be the thing when I post things on TikTok guys say yeah what they got paid or they accepted the money didn't they as if like that makes it okay yeah like so they accepted the money so it's okay or um you go and rape a prostitute but throw her 50 fucking quid yeah yeah but you took the money yeah um they say uh oh but she did another scene for him in the future and that one's more difficult uh to understand right but that again you can still see where they're coming from going back going back it kind of just it takes a way if ever does go to court that's they would just say well she came back if she was that threatened why did she come back yeah that's the way I would see it as well well this is what happens you understand that yeah which is what happens with abusive relationships and they call it trauma bonding you know like say or and with pimps as well like say a pimp threatens your life and says I'm going to shoot you but then says but I'm not going to because I care about you like that you're thankful they didn't kill you yeah of course trauma bonding start comes in it's um yeah and start comes in lock bomb and so a lot of girls don't realize they're being abused until maybe I think most all of them realize in the end but it can take some time you know and I mean some of some of the unsavory characters in this are ridiculous like um like Braille babes one of the agents that surprise girls to woodman and Rocco like that they're just such obviously bad people like like having an escort agency in Hungary is illegal but but I've got proof that they're sending girls to escort clients but not telling them it's an escort client so they're it's prostitution but with no condoms and the guys just told to you know have a camera or film on his phone and they get angry if a girl asks questions another one of the unsavory characters like like that is this guy in Belgium called Dennis Blackmagic he's not really a porn producer he did like a few porn videos and he's like a reality TV star that kind of pretends he's in the porn industry in Belgium uses that for fame to get girls and this guy is convicted three times of sexual offenses against children including raping a 15 year old girl and like Pierre Woodman is the only person in the industry that works with him like no one else would recruit girls through someone that's a convicted rapist because how do you know they're not trafficked how do you know yeah and that too oh no Pierre Woodman says oh but 15 is nearly an adult so it's okay and it's like this is the mentality I'm dealing with and it's so hard to believe that these characters could exist in the professional porn industry but they do and like my goal really is just to stop this narrow group of people I don't have any illusion the you know it's a small podcast I have like I just want to shine a light on these people and I'm hoping that you know someone with more power than me can take the forward for story forward all you can do is just shed more light on them yeah I'm just going to keep talking oh yeah keep talking keep exposing the truth of what these fuckers are doing and if everything you say is legit because people say well you were in the porn industry you're bitter against them you're jealous against them you're going to get that sort of yeah yeah I mean I I took the decision I mean as I've done this story I've realized the bad things I've done and I'm just being completely honest about it you know I'll own my crimes if if I get punished for that like I deserve it but I think you know everyone in the European porn industry has a lot to answer for and I'll take my punishment if and when it comes I think you get punished for that I don't know I don't I think I should I think there should be I don't know how accountable you are as an employer if you hire illegal immigrants knowingly I don't know I don't know what I don't know what the law is how much support have you got just now from the industry yeah um there's a lot of secret support no one's public but you can understand that as well because you were the same a few years ago with you were scared yeah I understand it like the people I've lost a lot of friends through it including some close friends partly yeah partly because they've been trying to turn friends against me I suspect they even paid one close friend to turn against me you know she had some money troubles she was like kind of not my co-host but she was on most of my podcasts so she started the investigation against Woodman she was the person that put me on to the Eva stuff and then she had some money trouble because you know you can't get a mortgage as an escort right so she needed like a 20 grand more as a loan or something and she met Woodman for lunch and then suddenly she turned against so it's saying like just saying the opposite of everything she said before and supporting him publicly even though in private messages she said the worst things about him you know that she believes the allegations against him because you then come in at the forefront and try to expose the big names the wolfing dot on you so if you're playing this skeletons in your closet it will come out yeah well that's the thing that I'm a bit weird and I think because I had a female business partner I always you know we both always did everything together and we made mistakes sure but I don't think we ever did apart from the the sex trafficking thing like benefiting from trafficked girls I don't think we did anything deliberately bad you know so I think they're finding it quite hard because they can't find any dirt on me it's it's quite weird for them I think most people they can control because most people in porn especially the girls they're usually doing something a little bit wrong like escorting for example they'll escort in the UK where but they're not paying taxes in the UK so they'll threaten the girls oh we're going to report your escorting to border force in England and like that's how they'll control them and get them to take down their comments so who had the traffic girls everybody oh um everybody really everybody all the companies agency was it just agencies agents yeah every every porn company uses trafficked girls every porn company not not one porn company doesn't so why is that allowed then if it's so blatantly out there I think just there's no like like um in in construction or farming for example like or like everybody's using some trafficked people right but like who's checking you know who's checking illegal immigrants papers it's different this is very difficult it's coming over from wherever and they're going working a restaurant or a chip shop but it's different if you're getting put out and you're making your own money to send back home what is it different that's what these girls are doing like they're supporting their families back home with it it's different though and if they don't want to do sex it's a totally different ball game a lot of these people leave to find work to send money home but if they're this is what they're doing but if they're there these girls do support their families back home yeah but if they're there and it's free well to be there that's different that's different if they've got a free well but if they're being forced then it's different again yeah but with other jobs people are also being forced right yeah anybody that's been forced is wrong I'm talking about the people who's coming over because they've got that money here and they're illegal and they've just gone to restaurants or working Indians or Chinese or whatever it is they want to work any shop any restaurant and they're making about a 180 cent home and they're doing it from their own free will yeah I don't care I don't care but no if it's traffic then you're getting traffic to have sex and you don't want to do it that's a different ball game some dark stuff well this is the problem and I think this is where we get into immigration policy because these conditions wouldn't exist if there were legal routes of people to come in right that we give the trafficers power by make it by creating a legal immigrants and I mean I'm you know having lived abroad for you know 10 years I I just think let everybody come in work pay taxes like things will just balance out you know because you know I've been an immigrant I spend a lot of time in Turkey and you know I see so many Iraqi Afghan Syrian refugees there and they're just normal people doing their job you know yeah I don't mind anybody that wants to come here and make a living and yeah do the right things not to cause any harm they're not causing any destruction by all means do so because the British go everywhere around the world yeah everywhere and cheat again but there's a lot of good policies here for Britain and I don't know people say oh there's too many immigrants but if they're willing to work and do whatever then by all means let them be but it's the ones who are here the fucking raping kids and doing bad shit then fuck them off yeah like let's fuck out them and fuck them off yeah let's put our resources into stopping criminals rather than you know making people that just want a job criminals you know and that's the thing in where I am you know these girls can't go to the police yeah because you know that they're they shouldn't be there they shouldn't be working where do you go forward to the future of it all honestly I've in a weird way it's been quite positive for me and that's like a horrible thing to say but you know I lived like a very selfish life especially I think anyone with some kind of addiction they do they do live a really selfish life and you know it has been good to do something for other people instead and so you know I'm hoping I can just keep doing the podcast just try and put some good things into the world if I can you know the next period of my life is a bit more positive that's good for me and I hope I just hope that the things I've done make a difference because the worst is when like people don't see the amount of work it takes to do these stories like I'm very lucky that I have an income from my old business and I was able to take four months maybe five months out of my life to just focus on nothing but this I guess a lot of research like talking to so many people finding evidence making sure you're watertight in your arguments so that they can't sue you for defamation and it's hard and I'm lucky I was able to do that it was difficult the most difficult thing I've ever done and I just hope it makes a difference are you off the booze now are we for three years yeah yeah yeah do you think that's why you've kind of walking up a little back where you've your conscience has kicked in yeah I worry I wonder about this I don't know I don't know if you've ever had a period like that from sex years oh really yeah sex years drinking drug for you but I wasn't fucking I was just I just loved partying yeah I just loved it I wasn't doing any fucking I hated it I just I hated it I loved it at a time now listen it basically caught up with me when I became more depressed more upset more angry towards life now I'm in a good place but do you feel that as you're trying to cleanse your soul a bit we'll be fucking duck that you've done I think I think there's maybe an element of that I don't know I don't know if you found this but like I'm not religious but I found that religious stories helped me a lot when I was quitting drinking and it I don't know it it it has given me like something to I don't know like just some recognitions that you know you can be a good person and you know being a good person takes a lot of effort and it's given me this not a need but desire to just try and do good things and help people and I guess you get a meaning from your life in that way like my life my life had no meaning before just money parties porn food travel you know just drunk most days very self but you know this you know seeing reality seeing yeah I guess that's what's happened is I see things as they really are now have time to think and if you don't like how reality looks I guess you try to change it a little bit I don't know it sounds quite egotistical what is your podcast for people to have a look at that does people have been intrigued by this it's called lustcast it's very small at the moment but I guess kind of growing and yeah it's just sex relationship advice whatever topics I'm interested in but from that mostly for straight men I'd say so for anybody watching it's maybe what I look into that's more or maybe wanting to give you support what would you say to them yeah I think most important thing is you know like share your video like share just share the more people see it the more chance there is that someone that can do something will see it and I is definitely making a difference I'm in touch with bigger charities bigger more competent police officers because of speaking out and because of doing like a news show so just share anything you can if you want to know more there's I think there's 10 hours of very detailed content breaking things down step by step some things happened kind of you see the story as it just goes along really so it's if you're really into detail they want to know the behind the scenes of how the porn industry really works there's 10 hours of content there um but it might be a bit boring for most people but if you are really fascinated then would you like to finish up on anything anything that we missed to kind of freshen people's minds or what how that the industry can be um I think I don't I think just I don't like you said that how you know maybe it's not good even when people think it's good and I guess I just challenged that a little bit I think like porn I've benefited from porn in so many ways I think I learned about relationships okay maybe by making mistakes and people porn isn't a relationship but you learn about communication you know it's a people business and I think a lot of people in the porn industry learn about relationships that way it you get so many positives from it I've grown so much because of the incredible people I've met incredible people I've worked with I think amazing friends I've met along the way that there's a really positive side and the way I would liken it is more like you know when you kind of first just like I guess you experienced this before I did when you get into sex and you you know you just have like a slutty phase you know you're trying to sleep with everybody porn's kind of like that you know and then when you grow up you maybe pull back from it a bit and you know you maybe do less extreme things maybe I think most Onlyfans girls are just having sex with their partner only and that's great I think it's very healthy and the slutty phase can be healthy too because maybe you need it maybe you need to test your boundaries maybe you need a bit of attention because you didn't have it before so you know getting extreme attention can be quite therapeutic and build your confidence What's the worst thing you've seen in porn? Oh the worst thing I've seen I think suicides that's that's the worst because there are damaged souls in our business there are vulnerable people in our business and there's been some really good things to try and help them like there's the industry funds support lines like there's pineapple support where sex workers can call if they need help but yeah male or female it's surprising like there's it's just an industry that will attract damaged people any industry can but I think that's the thing is in porn I think we should be aware that we are attractive to vulnerable people so we have to be more cautious and more empathetic and more supportive to the employees than we would be in a normal business Tommy would you like to finish up anything else? um I guess I don't know what do you think to porn addiction?