All right, welcome everybody to the April 6th hyperledger technical oversight committee call. As everybody is aware on the call to things that we must abide by brush the antitrust policy. And then the second is our code of conduct which is linked in the agenda. Sorry. So for announcements today we have a dev weekly developer newsletter that goes out each Friday. If you have something that you want to include in that newsletter, please do leave a comment on the wiki page that is linked from the agenda. As I pointed out last week, it's very important that if you have something special going on in your projects that you do take the time to include that there so that people are aware of what's going on. So then what we have for quarterly reports, we have the caliper report that came in. I hadn't had a chance to look at it but I think the last time I looked at it there were two people left to review that. So if you haven't reviewed it yet, please do so. For the basic one. There are quite a few reviews that have happened so far there was a question in the report itself for the TOC about the, I think the CI CD. And if we were going to be delivering a unified CI CD strategy across all hyperledger projects. So I know we've been talking obviously about GitHub actions and some best practices. But I did want to make sure that we were aware of this question that was asked and see what it is that we might want to just respond to the basic group so that they know what's going on. So Tracy I know the leadership team is in constant touch with GitHub on GitHub actions and also rise doing experiments on how to give visibility into the build time so that we are also going to suggest on optimizing the build pipelines for PR sources merge things. Do you think it's right time to call out those things or do you think we are we can discuss those later. So, yeah, I think we will, we do have in the discussion topic for the GitHub actions. I think it's worthwhile for the basic report maybe just to let them know that those discussions are underway in that if they'd like to find out more they can listen to some of the past recordings to see what we've been talking about in those areas. Thanks makes sense. Yeah. Okay. And then for past two reports, the transact one, Peter did open up an issue and a pull request this week, two days ago. I haven't seen any responses from the transact maintainers on that pull request or that issue. So I think the, I think we'll give it another week but I think if we don't see any sort of responses coming up to that, then we should consider potentially opening opening up a ticket to end of life transact thoughts on that concerns with that schedule. Sounds good to me. Okay, great. Thanks. All right, and then for the Ursa report. We did Steven you sent a reminder the last time we met out to the Ursa group. However, I don't. I didn't see anything unless it's been responded to today that has come back. You sent it to Brent. And my understanding is that maybe Brent's not working on the project anymore. So we may need to figure out what to do moving forward with Ursa. Where did it. Did you hear that from brands. I know I heard that they're here. Okay. It's hard to tell I mean Jen doesn't say much about what they're doing at all. It's been in and out and tends to respond and then not respond and then, you know, process some TRs so I'm never quite sure I've never heard specifically that they're in out or doing anything, doing or not doing anything so it's really hard to figure out. So unless you heard it firsthand I would say let's keep pursuing them and see. You should answer this. All right. So that's what we've got for project reports upcoming reports are tech dye and fabric are due next week. Any questions or other comments on the project reports and the projects. I got a reminder about the Indie report. Is it should it not be on the list, maybe not. Let's open up that calendar, Ryan see what the. Not that I need everyone else to do this so sorry about that. That's okay. It was an email there I saw at the top. That said it was due. Oh May 4. Okay. Here I was thinking. Like this. Send it a month in advance, I guess. You can always send more Stephen. Well, you miss it. Well, I have the reminder set for one week in advance so. Oh, so it's May 7 now. I mean April 27. Well, I mean, the report is due on the fourth of May of May. Right. And I send a reminder, letting people know. Hey, your reports do. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. My I send, I mean, the list automatically sends without my intervention. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. Sorry. I didn't mean to spend time on that. I could have looked at myself. I apologize.  What I do is when I go through and create the agenda, I look at the project update calendar and whatever student next week I put in the upcoming reports. So that people are aware that something's happening. I don't know what's happening there because there's nothing due on the 20th, but then on the 20th one, you'll see the Saqif one show up as being due on the 27th. And then I'll also remind about Aries Indian. And on credits coming up. So I just, I basically look at this calendar and put whatever's coming up on the agenda so that people are aware of something's supposed to be happening. Okay. So any other questions or comments about the reports? Okay. So next we have our discussion items. Two topics. The first one on get have actions and update there. And then the second one will be our task force discussion. So, right.  Sure. First, I just want to ask who the other hyper ledger project is and perhaps they could change their name. Oh, it's been Thomas. All right. So we got put into a beta group. So we're going to look at the, we're going to look at the data. We're going to look at the data. We're going to look at the data. We're going to look at the data. The data. Which. Contains both historical data. You can look here and see that this job. Like in. February of last year took 46 seconds. To execute. And if you have a more complex job. You can see that. If you go. The top, you can look at the summary and see. You know, all the dependent jobs. And then. You know, all of the, all the errors. And then you can see the usage. And this is broadly available. This is on a per run basis. Not a org or repo basis. So this is very helpful. But. This data will need to be aggregated. And it's not easy to get. So I just want everyone to know. I'm working on it. And if anyone has questions. You know where I live. I try. Like the information will be useful for those of us who have. Jobs that are running long. To see where time is being taken. Yeah, like this one here. So. Definitely take a look at your. Your actions and the usage and see if there's anything that you might be able to do to speed things up for. Update those actions. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so I just wanted to ask right a bit more, but so what kind of aggregation do you actually want to do. For repo for projects for. All of the above. Right. So I want to. Have. I want to see. Like, I want to be able to go and look at hyper ledger. And see how many minutes we've used. And then at a repo, how many minutes they've used. And then at a job, I mean, that's fine. But one thing that this doesn't show. And I was told going into the beta that it's not part of their. Road map. Is this doesn't show. The builder type. And it also doesn't show queue time. So I would like at least to see a queue time. How long was this job waiting before it got picked up. And that data is. You know, not really easily available. Right. So. I have a few questions and probably a few comments right to ask. And I want to understand this more in detail. I know now we are concerned about the build times because the. Let's say the cost associated for CI pipelines are now going to be based on how long we are consuming the resources for. But at the same time, I don't think so we should be that descriptive and telling projects. How the CI pipeline should look like. Right. So there should be flexibility in for them to choose. What kind of test they would like to run and what kind of validations they would like to make before merging a PR or after merging a PR. And do we. Again, so being not that descriptive and being not that open because it's now charges. Just a question and understanding. I think we should come up with policies around the minimum set of things that we would like to have as part of any pipeline or for instance. The minimum things that we would like to at least write down saying that if your pipelines are going to take this long then follow these recommendations. There is a guideline or help available from the hyper ledger to help with you and help create your pipeline which is more optimized. So, I, I'll answer, I think you're. So, I, this is, this is something that heart has been discussing for a while we've been discussing. How do we allocate money. It's based on CI costs. And that would allow there be some incentive there for projects to keep their numbers low so that they had plenty of headroom.  I don't know what those numbers are going to be. I definitely like these jobs I looked into them. These jobs timed out. I'm loading the yarn cash. So, obviously the yarn cash was a detriment to this job success and I haven't looked into like the role I wanted to see how much time there was spent on the yarn cash.  I was just, I found out this morning or yesterday that we had this and I started looking around. As far as policies, we do have. We do have some options. For actions. We can mandate required workflows. And we're not doing that. And we, we could set that to be something. But I don't know that that's a great idea. Yeah, I was just going to jump in and say basically that I agree completely with what you've been saying and going over. You know, we have been talking to GitHub and we have been trying to get more resources. But, you know, eventually we are going to, you know, no matter what, pretty much, we are going to have to place some limits. Like right now the there is essentially no incentives for people to write efficient tests. And so, you know, we hope that like, we hope that if people write generally efficient tests, then we should never have any resourcing issues. I'll go back to Raya Rama. This suggestion probably we can make to maintainers. Most of them probably already doing this, but if there are multiple, if they've complicated multiple actions, each of which are repeating the same setup steps, and then just running different tests, you can just bundle them up into one test. And that would save a lot of resources, I think. Yeah, sure. I'm, I come from a CI CD background, you know, both that. Well, Qualcomm and Microsoft I spent a lot of time on this, and there are there are a lot of best practices that we could do that we could mandate like we hyperledger. That would mean for that to be practical. We would need people who are committed to doing code reviews of all the CI CD stuff. And we have 150 active repos right now I just don't see that as tenable. Sorry, two topics. One, I want to ask and understand more of what hard just mentioned, but the other big question rather to understand is on the report that you were showing right I think there were two columns right one was the build time and the one was chargeable time. So believable time service. Can you explain what that is the second column. Sure. So these right now we're running free, right. So we're running free actions. So there's no billable time. However, if you go into our billing and plans. You will see that. Oh, it doesn't show you. We only get 2000 a month. 2000 minutes a month, but we are well over that. This was one of the bugs that I had complained about. In our call with GitHub. Is it, I don't, I can't tell you how many minutes have we actually used what platform. I can't tell you. So that's why the number zero room for the questions or. The time thanks for explaining that right and the other question or rather. Trying to understand is what I just mentioned. So are told about incentivizing projects based on how efficient their pipelines are. Do you think this is something we should discuss as a TVC or is this something which. Yeah, that's just a question. So when I think of it from a TVC standpoint, I don't see anything else we can say other than saying that. I don't think so we from a TVC are right in allocating how much each project should be using. Maybe we can talk about how much graduated project is given preference versus others for trying to set up. Rather, I would mostly focus on the optimization part of it and giving enough assistance where needed. Right, maybe not like all to all the 150 deposit trace, but we should have something in place to help the projects in case they need one. Well, I agree. The discussion is ongoing. I don't have the answers today. Yeah, and just maybe Dave before you jump in. I wanted to point out a couple of things that I think one we've been doing in Dave's best practices. Before we we went through the CI CD, what might be good best practices for that the other one was that the other one of the other task forces that would suggest it was a CI CD best practices. Task force, and we didn't get enough people setting up to express interest in that maybe that's because this hadn't happened yet. Maybe that one would have been a priority had we had this already going on. So I think there are, you know, some things that could potentially fit a rune into what you're suggesting is, you know, in those task force to those two task forces right, we could spend some more time on that. And talk about kind of the guidance that you're suggesting that we give to projects on what they should do with with CI CD. So Dave. First, just a question to ride based on the comment about we're well over the minute limit was it 2000 minutes a month, something said. Yeah. And how could that be are they just not enforcing that. Right. So this is do we expect them to start enforcing it at some point. Well, we were well over the limit for runners. You know, we were way up well over the 20 runners at once limit forever. And then with no notice. They started enforcing it. And that's what I'm getting at. If they start enforcing this, we're going to be really feeling it right. Yes. So I, I don't have an answer. I'm very much interested in an answer. I couldn't get them to say anything about anything yet. We are talking to them next week. About what programs are available. One that might be available is an enterprise plan. I experimented with an enterprise plan last week. On one of my test orgs. And it didn't give any better visibility or control. CNCF is an enterprise. And all of their orgs are under that enterprise. So if we had an enterprise account, we could say, put fabric in one in a hyper ledger fabric org. And then, you know, we could cap the spending for that org. But yeah, so that's kind of, we'll go to my next point is, and I'm not saying we should do this, but in theory, couldn't we put every project in their own org and then each project would get 20 runners. We could. There are other downsides to that as well. Okay, so when we when we talked to GitHub, can we say this is what we might do. But could we compromise instead of could you just maybe double the number of runners. So instead of going from 20 free runners to 200 some free runners, could you just go to 20 from 20 to 40 something like that. I don't know if they have, they have mechanisms to do special cases but I will absolutely ask. I think this is next week. So I promise you this has been at the top of my mind since everything went crazy. And I will report back I promise. Okay, and then my final comment is the prior conversations about leasing projects and required workflows and things like that. I don't think we should do any of that I think we should leave it up to each of the projects. So for fabric, I know we have some egregious use of CI that with a lot of overlap and running across different platforms and running similar functions and different tests. So I know there's some egregious use that we plan to streamline. And I suspect other projects are in the same boat so I think we can get things down a lot without really bringing in too much impact the projects. So when I was thinking about required workflows. To me, something that would go in the, in the workflows would be the DCO bot. Right. I don't see it anymore. You know, or something like that or a spell check. Not. That doesn't replace as far as I understand. Now, you know, if I were to add a workflow here, it says it runs alongside the repo and branch merging workflows. So it's not a replacement. If that's, if that's what it sounded like. So I'll put this link in the to see to see chat. Yeah, my main point I guess is that I think fabric and I suspect other projects can do a lot to streamline our CI use. And as we said last week when everything was free and there was no limits that, you know, led to a lot of a lot of bloat in CI, there was no penalty for having redundant workflows and things like that. So, I think we can do a lot to reduce it while you're doing your work with GitHub. That's it. Thank you. So practically speaking when they enforce the limit, what does that look like this just stop launching runner so. Yeah, that's what happened until when I guess they're about the minutes would be the more concerning one. If they're forcing that. Yeah, so they're already enforcing the, the runners. And that's what got us into, you know, where we've been for the last couple of weeks, right. Yeah, but that means this gets queued, right. Right. Right, but if they start enforcing the minutes, then they could just say you can't run anymore for the rest of the month. Right. Exactly. That would be extremely problematic. I agree. When I one thing that I could do is put us in an enterprise plan. You get a 30 day trial. But when I did that on my test org. And I didn't see what I wanted. They have a thing that says, when you leave the, the free trial everything will be just like it was. Well, that wasn't true. And I had to go and manually undo some things. And I think if I were to, you know, go here and click the, I want a free enterprise trial button. And in 30 days we didn't come to some configuration and let that happen. When we left the trial, there would be a lot of manual work to undo going into the trial. So in an emergency case, I can start a free trial that I give us 30 days. I can start enforcing the actions minutes. But that's all you want to give us 30 days. So. Yeah, but don't do that. Yeah. And my, my thinking is that it's the only reason that it would stop at 2000 minutes is if you put some sort of spending on this account. Right. You never got charged anything. Otherwise you're going to actually incur cost would be my guess right like I would expect them to basically say okay 2001. Now you're starting to get charged for the usage. Right. And when I explored this with my other org. You can't. It's not easy. If we were to go to team, it would be $4 a month per user and we have way too many users that would only give us, you know, this says it's free for public repos. But I don't know what that means if we're capped at 2000 minutes a month. You know, another thing that we're going to run into is for get a packages. We're way over this 500 make limit. So I don't know if they're going to start enforcing that at some point. So there's, I wouldn't have given this anymore thought this year until they turned on the runner limits and caused chaos so now I'm very concerned. This looks key to me, not just on the GitHub actions but also on the packages size, given the number of projects we have under the same organization. I'm talking with respect to even the enterprise plan that they're showing. Let me see. So packages. I'm trying to see where it was that I found the. I don't remember where I found the usage per repo.  So here are the repos that are there over the cash limit. You know, I was using 23 gigs of 10 areas is using 20 of 10, you know, so I don't know if they're going to enforce that. I mean, I don't know. I have so many unknowns unknowns at this point. I'm thinking about disabling the cash and the cacti CI jobs because they had this bug for months where they throttle the bandwidth of the caching operations to 0.0 megabit per second. And that's one of the reasons why we have jobs in the CI that are stuck for six hours before they time out because all it does for that six hours is downloading the cash with this dial up modem speed. And, and they just times out and never even finished it. So, I recommend everyone else also looks into that if, if some of your jobs that time out, or because of the cash. Thanks, I had noticed that yesterday or this morning when I was poking around at the long running workflows that you some of the cactus jobs were running for over a day of compute time, and it was just waiting for the yarn cash to repopulate so. All right, any other comments at this point. I think right is on top of knowing that there's a lot that needs to be looked at and understood and I think we're will continue to get reports from my as and when he learns new information. Thank you right for the update. You're welcome. I think the next thing is a task force discussion on the security vulnerability disclosures. This one is for you to take on. Take a straight. Thanks, Tracy. Everyone. Thanks. I mean, so, yeah, before we get started, I think I wanted to recap what happened in our previous discussion because that was about three weeks ago from now. That we had was on 9th of March, and that was excellent call I would say we had various topics on that day. We discussed a lot about policies that we can enforce from within a pleasure foundation we discussed about the embargo list we discussed about the activities that the project representatives can are supposed to do within the security for subgroup that we were talking about. And we also discussed about some of the ways we can inform the security researchers when they when they impose, or when they report their issues. And that was a good discussion so I would say, please go on listen to the recording on 9th of March. If you missed the previous discussion. And I know towards the end of the call on 9th of March we had two open topics which were not completely discussed, which we are supposed to discuss. And once we have these two topics as well. I'll go ahead and put all the suggestions that came in through these meetings, the task force discussions through PRs. And I also see it hard posted a link on Google now. Hey, so thanks. So I took a bunch of these suggestions that from that meeting and put them together into a sample template for a vulnerability disclosure list. So you all can take a look at that, you know, I finished it up last night. So I apologize for not sending it out in advance but it wasn't done. But you know I wanted to try to write something that was based on the open SSF document, or sorry, the open SSF doesn't have a document I wanted to make something that was based on the open SSF recommendations. So you know customizable for different projects. And the idea is that the projects could just edit out like the stuff in red and the stuff in brackets here, and have a reasonable vulnerability disclosure policy that being said this is a first draft. So I probably made a bunch of mistakes. So it would be really awesome if you could point those out to me. And really, I would like to be able to take this back to the open SSF vulnerability disclosure group, and have them also give us an okay on this. And then, you know, we can go from there. So, yeah, I don't expect people to have, you know, lots of immediate comments on this. You know, I literally just shared it. But, you know, please, you know, over the next week or so. We would love to have your feedback. Are there any immediate questions. Anyone. I think we need to read through this and then go back to meeting recordings and then map them. We are missed anything. Thanks heart for putting this. And we also discussed about creating the governance of repo under to see putting these guidelines. Yeah, I mean we might also contribute this back to the open SSF. Because they don't really have a template that you can use for a vulnerability disclosure form right.  As a policy but they don't have like an example policy a project can just take and pick up. And that's what we're trying to do here. So, you know, customize bullet a lot of ways that projects need customization. Like, for instance, I know base you has something like six or seven possible bug intake routes. But most of those the other our other projects are not going to have getting through the document that looks great. I think we should use this in cacti for, especially the the part about the response team that has at least three maintainers. So, thank you hard for putting this together. This looks great. Well, thank you for the kind words but I'm sure it needs some heads. So, please. Yeah, take a look and you know, particularly folks like our know who are security conscious. I don't know the spot are no. No, no, it's okay. I will definitely have a look. But yeah, so. So what I'd like to do is to get the folks in this group, okay with this, and then go back to the open SSF with it. So, that's the plan. I think that's good plan. Just think enough openness and just developed disclosure policy but it's the other way around. They describe how they will handle that they found in other people in projects in general, you know, projects, typically, because you know there's some activities in open SSF, you know, is focusing on trying to secure open source at large. And so they have these stuff what they consider to be like the top projects. And they just try to, you know, find vulnerabilities across the board, and they figured, well, it'd be good to actually explain our policy how we will handle the disclosure of their abilities that we find through activities. But it's kind of the opposite of this right it's on the other side of the spectrum. And we have a lot of projects that have custom that have a there's a lot of need for specialization. I don't even I don't think I know all of the possible base who intakes, right. Yeah, if I mean I guess it's not fair to expect people to comment on this now but you know please read it over comment, you know feel free to reach out to me and ask me questions. Discord or email whatever works for you all. Yeah, we can go from there. But I also see you listed down the private patch deployment infrastructure. I wanted to bring up that topic for discussion today on more time. Because we spent less time in the last call. Go ahead.  No, I think this is good. So, yeah, this is what I wanted to bring up in today's call that we did discuss about the private patch deployment infrastructure where we raise PRs and do the development in a private manner which is not publicly disclosed. And only when it is much it's available to the public and all the testing for the issue itself would happen on that private branch or private patch. And I wanted this to be a guideline for the projects that something like this exists and something like this is what we encourage for all the projects to follow, especially when it comes to the security issues. And it will also go in as a guide for projects and best practices. So, and if all are okay, then maybe we can, we can do this. Talk about this and best practices as well. Other thing I wanted to bring up in today's call for discussion is on the governance of these, these policies that we are going to set up our governance around the best practices that we have put up from a security standpoint. The reason why this plays important role is we want to incentivize projects that follow best practices from a security standpoint. And we want to build a confidence among the users of hyper ledger projects, and we want somebody who's using hyper ledger projects to know that these projects are weighted through the strong guidelines and strong recommendations. So they are following a high quality, at least when it comes to the security practices, and they can be ensured that there is no compromise when it comes to security. And we want to avoid risk, which might arise in, sorry, let me put it in a better phrase. So we want to do a risk management, we want to make sure that in an unforeseen consequences, the impact is minimized, the issues are minimized. So we want to make sure that at least our governance rules have best practices around those around those issues so that we reduce the blast radius right in our worst case. So we need to have that infrastructure in place and make sure at least the projects are ready to be used in critical software environments for any of the use cases that we have. I know there are a few certifications that some of them in at least couple of projects that Daniela mentioned that hyper ledger projects have gone through for use in governments, at least in US right. So that's another reason why we need the ordinance. Now, apart from these. I know hard brings in high security Calib I mean I highest importance to the security, because he himself being a security researcher so it's also a focus from the foundation that we need to put up best practices around it. And having said all of this right we want to minimize any extra work to the maintainers and just putting additional. I mean without putting additional burden to them on how we get these measure how we get these measured. And at the same time we don't want any of these reportings to be available in public right and that we still are in that these projects are following the best practices that have been recommended. So, that's just stuff why it is important and how we should play around it. I don't have any proposal put up in place. But what I want to bring up today is, if anybody have any recommendations or our considerations on how we measure a success of a project. When we have all these governance rules put up. And I want to also talk talk, I mean tell that we are not really ranking projects among like we are not comparing one project with another project and we are not ranking them based on how well the other project or how bad the project is doing, but rather let's consider this as a way of measuring how good a particular project is right so without in comparison to another project. So there is no comparison needed across project but it's rather imagine it to be like an absolute rating that a project can achieve, and it comes to best practice. And this is an open question, which I would require comments on is Tracy. How is what you're suggesting different than the badge used to be the CIA badge I think is now called something else. How is how is what you're suggesting different. So, from see I bad, the, the best practice guidelines that were there. It focused on few questions that were to be answered by each project. And I don't think it covers all the aspects that we have in our recommendations. And so, for instance, let's say, we have a recommendation that says the project maintainers were supposed to be responsible on the security side should be responding back or at least try. They should try age and say, if a reported issue is a security vulnerability or not within a given amount of time right. So there is no way of us measuring if that's being followed, unless it gets escalated or unless it gets told to us, or unless somebody monitors it from the foundation. I mean that was just one example or one scenario, which we can consider it's difficult to measure. Or I think one of the thing that that came up in the previous task for discussion not this one the previous security task force is that assume that all projects are having the good intent in terms of making sure all the recommendations are followed, and then assume that they're all following the best practices unless somebody raises a question right. But that won't give us the accurate measure or if there were no incidents that were reported for that project. Peter. Yeah, it is hard to define some sort of regular check for this that doesn't turn necessarily into each or we could. There's a number of reported vulnerabilities. But then that's that creates the wrong incentives because if a project has more reported vulnerabilities then another it could just mean that more people are using it or more people are researching what the issues with it are. So ultimately it could actually be that it has a better security hygiene. Maybe some sort of crowdsourced checking process with the main twin in the maintainers so crowdsourced within the maintainers there every month. The security responsible or the security response team of one project could go and check on another project and then report their findings. So that way, someone else would sometimes at least look at what the other maintainers are doing it so if there's one project that who's doing a lot of sort of mistakes in terms of security then it would get noticed sooner or later. Like it's this is as much as I can figure out for doing something that is not too intrusive and also doesn't take too much time away from from everyone all at once. It would be just a round robin kind of thing this month it's this maintainers doing that project. Next month is some other maintainer doing some other projects. And then of course it could be on a volunteer basis. So that we don't just throw every maintainer all at once into the mix but only those who feel like they can spare a little bit of time and if they feel like they know enough about security to take a quick look, which is not much. But yeah, it would probably have to be an opt-in thing. And part of the first thing for this to at least to even evaluate how successful it would be. Just ask the maintainers and sort of a referendum or survey. Would you actually be willing to volunteer to do this? And then if we get, I don't know if you get 10, 15 maintainers who say, you know what, I wouldn't mind doing this once a month. On some other projects so that others will also do it on my project. Then I think that's that's a start. Of course, if we don't have any volunteers then that's a different question. Yeah, I wonder, like, two things. One, are we, what's the goal of this? Is it just to, is it to determine whether or not they followed the processes for a CBE or security issue that was reported? And if so, why, why is that just not part of the process, right? Like, why is that not just part of once you finish the work to figure out the security vulnerability and report it if necessary. One of the things that you're looking at is the date that it was reported, the date that it was closed, and if it's over the 90 days or whatever the number is that we've cited on, then then we need to have a discussion at the point about why that was, why did it take longer than the 90 days, what could be done differently and move forward from there. I just feel like we're making this maybe a bit more complex than we need to, and maybe that's just because I don't understand the reason that we're trying to do this work. Okay, so quick, thanks for that question, right, so quick clarification.  The only reason why I wanted to bring this topic is so that we increase the confidence in hyperledger projects, and we can claim that these practices are followed, and the users of projects have assurance that there is high standards of quality when it comes to security. I agree, like some of these information we can extract from the reports, but then we need to just be clear on who does that and whose responsibility would that be. Any thoughts on that, and from anyone. Sorry for not raising my hand, but it seemed quiet. Yeah, I think we want to have some metrics around, you know, if a project is not, you know, following responsible disclosure practices, you know, do we want to invest in like security audits and other things for them. You know, maybe not. So, you know, we want to have some incentives for projects to follow best security practices. You know, I don't know how punitive we want to get.  So we will need some flexibility here. Due to the nature of this, this reported issues right should it be the staff would extracts this information and probably they make a decision. You know, we can. Sorry, go ahead Peter. I think it's all to meetable that part of it, the the part that Tracy said that whether we are over the 90 days for vulnerabilities or not. So that part can be automated and then it could just run as a job once a day or once a week and then generate a list of over the findings and then send that out somewhere posted on the discord channel or an email to the mailing list. Well, note that we are over time. Right. Yeah, we can continue this discussion offline as well. Thank you everyone. Thank you for attending everybody will see you again next week. I think Bobby, you're up next if I'm not mistaken with the task force discussion. Sounds good. All right. Thanks everybody.


Test prep pain and review revulsion cost many students marks. Fear and anxiety seems to drive the test preparation process for many students. Let me diagram this for you. At the beginning of the term, in week one, students don't do any test preparation. Week two passes and still they're not doing anything. Week three, week four, week five. Oh, they're going to class, they're reading chapters, they're doing assignments, but no actual test preparation is occurring. They're not reviewing material, they're not looking for knowledge gaps. As they start to become aware that the exam is approaching, their anxiety starts to rise, but not enough yet to cause studying, so they continue to do nothing. Anxiety continues to rise and rise until a threshold of tolerance is passed. They just can't take the anxiety anymore and they start to study for that exam. Perhaps the student is lucky and there's just enough time to complete the preparation for that exam. Usually not. If the student had built in the review process throughout the academic year, this would have solved this problem, but there is a twist. When you do that review matters greatly. Using a very simplified version of the forgetting curve, let me demonstrate this for you. If I were to plot out knowledge and effort, these two things are together because knowledge and memory come only with effort. Against time, you get the forgetting curve. After a student has read chapter one, their memory of that material fades with time, but it never completely disappears. They always keep some of it. If they never review, they have to spend considerable effort to recapture this faded knowledge before the exam. The more times they review, the more that they retain, and the less work before the exam. However, if they were to review that material earlier, they would get the same benefit of the review, the less upfront effort. The longer they wait, the more effort needed to refresh that memory trace. You have probably already experienced this effect. If you've just finished reading chapter one, and you were to test yourself with some questions on chapter one, you'd probably be able to answer them fairly quickly. However, if you waited 12 weeks, you'd probably find that you couldn't answer any of those questions. Your memory of that material had faded. This window of opportunity for low pain and high gain is 24 hours after you first learned the material, not the night before the exam. The forgetting curve is also applicable during exam week. If you start your review too late, you won't have enough time to complete the review. If you start too early, you might find that the memory starts to fade just before the exam. Usually, there's not enough time to compress all of the material into a 24-hour window, so you may want to do a long review before your final review. Let me show you how you might do this. Use a timeline or calendar and count backwards from the exam date the number of days that you need. First, give yourself one day for intensive review right before the exam. Then put in your long review. If you don't know how long you need for the long review, don't rely on feelings. Tally up the number of chapters or weeks of material you have and estimate how long for each. Assign the days accordingly. Keep in mind your daily limit of single subjects studying. Most students can't handle more than five straight hours of the same subject without decreased performance or slipping into a coma. Even before the long review, you may want to identify any knowledge gaps that you might have. It's not uncommon for students to find that they've missed, skipped, or skimmed through very important material that they need to recapture or relearn before the exam. So give yourself some time in your preparation plan to fill in these knowledge gaps. And of course, put time in to review your knowledge gaps as well. The way we have shown this, the actual time to begin formal term end preparation is two weeks before the exam. Not at all what your anxiety meter might have said. Of course, if you're watching this the night before your exam, you might not have found this all that helpful. Let me give you some suggestions. One, watch out for caffeine. Caffeine increases your stress and anxiety response. Two, you might want to avoid your panicky friends because stress is contagious. Three, don't have anyone test you hours before the exam. They can almost always come up with a stumper that's going to undermine your confidence. Four, don't trade sleep for more study time, especially in calculation type courses. Finally, relax. Schedule some anti-stress activities throughout your exam period. I hope this helps. Good luck.


The following is a presentation of TFNN. The morning market kickoff with your host, Tommy O'Brien. Good Thursday morning everybody. I'm Tommy O'Brien, coming to you live from TFNN, 9.06 a.m. Thursday. We got about 24 minutes to go until the start of trading and we got a market right now in positive territory so much for the sell off yesterday. We're right back to green territory. We start things off with the S&P. You're positive by one third percent trading at 46.58. You back things up to where we are. Basically, right at the price that we were at at 8.30 a.m. yesterday. Quite the sell off we had yesterday. All the way from 46.80 almost, the actual high 46.78.50. On the futures, we trade down to 46.25, 25. And since then, we've caught a little bit of a bid. Those lows made just prior to 3 p.m. Eastern time yesterday. S&P's up about a third of a percent. NASDAQ 100 up almost 8.10th percent. You look where we are in the NASDAQ 100. Same exact action, folks. We're basically right where we were after the first 15 minutes of the print of the CPI data. You see the 8.30 acceleration in the NASDAQ 100. You trade down to the price point of about 16,100. In the NASDAQ 100, quite the sell off here as well. You trade from 16,000 to 211. You're talking about 300 plus points in the NASDAQ 100. Lows of 15,896. And then we rise from there. Lows made about 3 p.m. yesterday. Dow almost flat. Little bit of a difference in the Dow, right? You back things up to where we were at about 8.30 yesterday in the Dow. We're about 150 points below that level. Not quite the acceleration that we saw in the S&P's and the NASDAQ Dow, barely in the green. And the Russell, similar, more similar I should say to the Dow, the Russell trading 23.99. You were down to 23.78 yesterday. Not clawing back as many as the losses as much of the loss I should say as the other indices have so far. Jumping around, what else we got going on? Bitcoin right now, hovering at around 65,000. There's some volatility yesterday for you on Bitcoin. Up to 69,355 the high. Excuse me, folks, still battling getting over this little cold. Bitcoin, quite an acceleration to lower prices. You traded down $6,000. $6,000 from the price point of 1 p.m. yesterday to the lows at about 4 p.m. yesterday. We're trading at 65,000. Bitcoin crude, quite a sell-off as well. We were talking to our man, Teddy Kegstad yesterday during the nine o'clock hour. We had crude at about $84 from there. It sold off pretty hard. Traded down about $3 to $81 in change. Last night, you were down at an 80 handle, I should say early this morning. You were down at an 80 handle yesterday afternoon. Right now, you got crude basically flat where we closed out the session yesterday at 81.33. Gold continuing to catch a bid. There's your acceleration on gold on the CPI data yesterday up to 1870. We're coming right back up to those highs we had. Right now, you just made a high in the last half hour of 1868.70. So within about two bucks of the highs we had yesterday, gold up $16 on the session right now. We got silver up 47 cents. Silver actually just climbing above those highs we had on Wednesday and we jumped to notes and bonds. Pretty tame action, quite the sell-off yesterday. For notes and bonds, you back things up into where we are. You're talking about a yield of 1.57%. You just rose 10 basis points. That was quite a sell-off yesterday, folks. 131.18, you traded down more than a full point in the 10 year. That is an amazing move to struggle to find the word. Amazing move. We take things a little bit longer context. We put it on a daily. And you can see, I mean, try and find a bar as big as the one we had yesterday, right? Yeah, you had a bar. Maybe you go back to September 23rd. You traded lower. You got to go back to some of these moves. That was quite a red bar in terms of price action yesterday. Lower prices, higher yields. The 10-year are ticking at 1.57%. Let's jump over to the volatility index this morning. We spiked yesterday. Did we get to 20? We were right there. 1990 was the high yesterday. We'll put it on a 15 minute. There's your high print at about 3 p.m. yesterday. That's correlating to the market lows. And this morning, we're right back to under 18. VIX, sitting at 17.65. All right, where do we kick things off? Let's kick it off with a little inflation talk. CPI data out yesterday, pretty hot number. Couple articles, many articles being written about inflation this morning. Bloomberg, as they put it, inflation shock, tears up trader playbook from stocks to bitcoins. CPI beat, has sent investors looking for inflation hedges. That's been the story for a long time, folks. It keeps ticking across. One of the things I wanted to look at here, a couple charts they have in this article I was checking out this morning. US bond market expectations for future inflation are surging with each new data point. What happened to transitory folks? Things are heating up. It's not even that it's staying at the same hot rate. They're actually heating up. They were supposed to be pulling back. You start getting 1% inflation month over month. The Fed has to pay attention to that type of a number, folks, and that's almost where we were. The break-evens, which track the difference between yields on inflation-protected securities and regular treasuries, five-year break-evens, climbed to a record. There you see the acceleration, folks. Above now, where we were in 2004, 2005, you were down to a low of about half a percent. You're now pushing 3%. When you talk about the five-year break-even rate, inflation expectations coming off that chart, you slide down a little bit more. Growth stock valuations most exposed to higher bond yields. M-C-S-M-S-C-I, I should say technology index. We're talking about 26.6. That's the forward PE. You start getting some rising, rising bond yields. That could put a hurt on some of those. Consumer discretionaries are pushing 25. That's quite a forward PE for consumer discretionaries in a big way. You have gold that we've seen, gold continuing to run today. That could be an indication where you are. You have Bitcoin running. Could be an indication in the same essence. And you have a flattening yield curve, the US yield curve, the 5.30 yield spread. I mean, look at that drop-off, right? Just from where we were in the early part of this year, we were pushing 160 basis points. You're now down to 60 basis points. Remarkable, you're back to basically the COVID lows. And at that time, biggest gain for 2021 pushes dollar gauge to one year high. The dollar trading higher in a big way. John Arthur is not familiar with this guy, but he's been writing a lot about inflation and he does not believe the transitory argument here. This is an opinion piece out on Bloomberg, but it's official. The inflation numbers are hot, sticky messes as he put it. The debate over whether this is transitory is over. Again, an opinion piece, okay? I happen to agree with a lot of it, though the question is now, what to do really interesting to combine the fact that not only are we in a once in a 100 year pandemic, okay? We have the great resignation they call it, right? People stepping out of the workforce, reevaluating life. We gotta make up millions of jobs to get back to that same level. We have inflation running hot, rent prices, real estate prices through the roof, crude oil, higher prices on crude food prices through the roof as well. And you get down to it in terms of where we're talking about when you talk about the Cleveland bed trimmed mean CPI and the median CPI, I mean just staggering numbers. I could spend the whole show folks pulling up numbers in terms of standard deviations above its norm for the last 10 years, 5.3. If you're familiar with how standard deviations work, folks, 5.3 standard deviations, it's like hitting the lottery, okay? It just does not happen. That type of a standard deviation move, nonetheless, that's where we currently sit right now. And so just pay attention. It's a lot of what's driving the action right now in a big way in this market and rightfully so. I mean, you're gonna see interesting in terms of chairman Powell, is he gonna get replaced? Really interesting in terms of the context of where we are right now, what the Fed is doing, the inflation argument, we'll find out folks, we'll find out soon. Stay tuned folks, we'll be coming back. We get a lot to go over. We got some earnings moving. We got Rivian pumping it out yesterday. We got Tesla moving. We're gonna talk to Kevin Hicks, we'll be right back. Everything in the universe is governed by the Fibonacci sequence. 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TFNN airs live financial content streamed live on tfnn.com and TFNN's YouTube channel with Tiger TV, live every market day from 8.30 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. Eastern. For free, each host is an experienced trader and gives their take on the market while taking calls and questions live from around the world. From the moment the market opens until the closing bell sounds, Tiger TV has eight different shows with expert hosts to help you make the right moves with your money. Watch online at tfnn.com or on TFNN's YouTube channel and become the investor you were born to be, TFNN, educating investors. Welcome back, folks. We got the S&Ps right now up 16 points. NASDAQ 100 at up 116 points. Dow up 21, Russell up 10. Let's jump over to our man, Kevin Hicks. Every trading day, folks, 12 noon Eastern time, the TD Ameritrade Network live on Tiger TV, fast market with your host, Kevin Hicks, Tom White, checking out the market action, breaking down hypothetical trade setups. Kevin Hicks, good morning. Good morning, Tommy O'Brien. A light day for economic data because of Veterans Day, but Tommy, this market reacted yesterday to fears about inflation and everything else that was going on. But so far this morning, obviously subject to change without notice, Tommy, as always, this market is jumping back. Tesla basically put a little uncertainty in the market over the weekend when Elon Musk talked about selling stock. Well, it turns out yesterday he did. And that being over, that event being passed the overall market has Tesla now looking up about $35. So the bad bet Elon Musk is through that event is put a little bit under Tesla and Tesla caused the uncertainty Monday morning and Tuesday and throughout the week and inflation added to that. And now Tesla seems to be giving the market a bit higher, Tommy. Kevin, I'm gonna keep you on the show for two hours today and we're gonna talk about Tesla for the entire time. And I don't even think we'll be able to break down all the action in that stock in terms of what's happening just this week alone. I was reading articles last night, man, talking about Elon exercising some of his options on Monday, the tax bill for his exercise on Monday having to do with the stock price on Monday. Some would say myself included that the tweet over the weekend might have influenced the share price to trade lower on Monday, allowing him to exercise those options, decreasing his tax bill, and then the stock's gonna rise back up. But man, like I said, we could spend all day, but yeah, crazy, back to 1,100 bucks on Tesla, man, like an instant. And I had to have a chuckle this morning, Kevin. I woke up, man, pulled out my phone, checked out the Thinkorswim mobile app, pulled up the indices, because yesterday was a little dicey, I was a little bit more interested today when you get a sell-off like that. And I had to chuckle, man. I said, nope, higher prices. Here we go again. With that going on, Kevin, you talked about the CPI data that's still a lot of articles out there today talking about the CPI numbers. But we move on, we have some earnings numbers. What are you looking at for this market as we come into Veterans Day, November 11th? Remarkable that we're gonna be through November before we know it. We're gonna start talking about Thanksgiving, Christmas, end of 2021. Remarkable the resilience of this market with the S&P sitting at 46.57 right now. And that is because every now and then, Tommy, the market looks up at the 10-year yield and reminds itself that it's at 1.5. And it's not at 2.5, or, you know, the last time we had inflation worries in this country, serious ones, the 10-year yield was at like eight. So every now and then you've gotta remind yourself that you've got a historically low 10-year yield. Even at 1.5, 6%, it's still historically low. So stocks still are in favor, even though the 10-year yield moved from the mid 1.4s, which it had just moved down from up to back up to 1.5.5. So, you know, every now and then you have to remember, we're looking at a pretty healthy economy with pretty good earnings and extremely historic low interest rates, Tommy. Yeah, it's remarkable, man, in terms of, of course, growth stocks, NASDAQ 100, the fang stocks in particular just been so strong over the last how many months, man, it just doesn't stop. A lot of the rhetoric having to do with, you know, if there's rising yields, that could hurt these growth stocks. And, you know, there's some validity to that for sure. But you make a great point, man. I mean, we're talking about a yield of 1.5% right now and these technology companies are just seems like they're just growing gangbusters, man. Yes, they do have some rising costs, but in the context of your putting them in, man, you know, if you're talking about 1.5%, you're talking about 1.4, you're talking about 1.7. The conversation, Kevin, months back, right, was not sitting at 1.5%. That was not the worry in this market in terms of yields. The worry was what, 2%, 2.5%, something like that. If you said the market was gonna be at 1.5%, Kevin, in the middle of November, if you said that maybe in the middle of the summer, I think traders would have rejoiced dramatically right now in terms of where they are. And maybe that's part of what's kind of put in this market, just kind of elevated to almost record levels across the board right now on all four indices, which is remarkable. Yeah, and heaven forbid, some of these supply chain problems may start to ease. Right? If you're starting to see that happening, Tommy, like chips coming to some of the automakers and chips coming to companies in general, if we get a good jolt's number tomorrow, right? Where people are moving off the sidelines into the labor force. If we get some of these ships emptied and some of you see those numbers go down and some of those goods start to come into the country, all those things can do two things, right? They can help the economy while still bringing down the level of inflation, Tommy. And all, remember a big part of yesterday's number, though it was dominated by energy, Tommy, look at the move in Crudall since then, right? Crudall has come down pretty significantly since then. Why? Demand destruction or the fear of demand destruction over $80 in Crudall. So sometimes these are self-correcting units, right? That higher prices lead to less demand, which lead to lower prices. And so there's a lot of moving parts in this economy that could lead to less inflation in the future, Tommy. Econ 101, man, right there, right? And you can't help but notice the prices, even myself filling up the gas tank, man. It moves a little bit, but right now, man, that sticker price on a fill up of just a gas tank, let alone how it translates to heating prices, et cetera, throughout all of our daily lives. Very obvious to many consumers that you have to be aware of those types of prices because it's hitting everybody. With that in mind, Kevin, we're still in some earnings going on. What are you guys chatting about on the program coming up at 12 today? You know, as I look on the calendar, Tommy, there's not a lot of great high-profile names to deal with today after the vote. We'll probably do something in a theme show. I think what we're gonna do, Tommy, we're working on it right now is something in the payment space. Remember, with PayPal's earnings, they have really gotten beaten up this week. I think we'll look at some of the payment stocks, Visa, MasterCard, Square, names like that after the PayPal event. I look forward to that, man, because I don't have any PayPal yet. And even on my own radar, Kevin, I said to myself, strong company, PayPal for sure, any Visa strong company, you have to start considering maybe if you're not in some of these equities, and this is myself talking, if I could have had it at 310, just a few months ago, man, maybe 210 is at least a partial position that you could get into it if you haven't rode that yet. Now, I just wanna finish it up, Kevin, with a conversation about Rivian. Pretty interesting, just from a market perspective, electric vehicles, Tesla, the story of the day, month, year. Rivian, pretty remarkable. You got a company with no revenue, man, pushing, they're talking about almost $100 billion. Even today, Rivian's gonna open up 15% right now, Kevin, from where it closed at yesterday. We got about 30 seconds here. Give me a little take of what you think of the Rivian action so far. You know, Rivian, unlike some of these smaller companies, Tommy, in the EV space, they have some big partners in Amazon and Ford. So they are a company that's gonna be here, not going anywhere, and will eventually be a pretty big competitor to Tesla. It's pretty cool, man. I was reading about their CEO, MIT graduate, PhD, kind of stayed under the radar. A little bit of inverse to Elon Musk's playbook, but man, they're coming out strong right now. And I agree, 100,000, not bad to have 100,000 vehicle purchase order when you go public. Kevin, man, we appreciate the conversation. We'll be watching the show at noon Eastern time today. Have a great one, man. Have a great day, Tommy. Thanks for having me on. You too, Kevin. Thanks so much. Stay tuned, folks. We'll be right back for the open. 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This segment is brought to you by Think or Swim. For more information, just click the Think or Swim banner on the front page of TFNN.com. Welcome back, folks. We're here at the Market to Open. We have the S&Ps up 13 points right now. NASDAQ 100 up 115. Dow just slipping back into the red right now. A little bit of a sell-off on the open, just barely back under 36,000. We got the S&Ps up by 12, as I mentioned. Let's jump back to Rivian. RIVN, Rivian shares up another 12% right now, from 95 yesterday, 120 on the top of it. And let's jump to Tesla, see how Tesla shares are trading this morning. Tesla shares up 2.5% sitting at 1100. I wanna touch real quick on Tesla, what I alluded to chatting with our man, Kevin Hicks. Article on the journal, this is yesterday, when was I reading this? Yes, yesterday, last night. Checked it out early this morning. They talk about, so we sold $5 billion of Tesla. This is Elon Musk this week, as he exercised stock options they received as part of his compensation package, according to regulatory filings made public last night. He first exercised just over 2 million stock options Monday that were valued at 2.5 billion, paying around 13.4 million in exercise costs. How's that for a trade? 13 million to 2.5 billion. This is the reason for the tax bill for Mr. Musk. He sold many of those shares the same day to cover tax withholding obligations, right?  After selling less than 1% of his holding, all holdings Monday, he sold about 2% over the subsequent two days. The regulatory notices show he sold around 4.5 million shares in total over the three days, shrinking the size of his holdings in Tesla even after exercising the options. So he exercised options and then after three days, he actually ends up with a smaller position than he started with, not usually the case when you exercise options. We all know about the poll on Twitter over the weekend. Monday's option exercise and sales were made under the preset, a preset trading plan that Mr. Musk established on September 14th. Okay, so Mondays, keep this in mind, Mondays only, we're not talking about Tuesdays and Wednesdays, that's gonna be the difference here. Made as a result of the plan put in place, it's dubbed, what, 10B5, one plan is a dub designed to enable company insiders to sell based on a set schedule, price trigger triggers, or other factors, it's made to help them avoid any type of insider trading rules, allegations, I'm not sure Mr. Musk is concerned about that with everything going on. The filings that disclose the subsequent sales on Tuesday and Wednesday don't include the same footnote. So Tuesday and Wednesday were not part of that folks, okay? To keep it in mind, so the Monday sale, already pre-designed preset trading plan, part of that plan that was arranged on September 14th, Tuesday and Wednesday, that's just Elon selling. Mr. Musk signaled at a September conference that he expected to exercise options in the fourth quarter, a move that would trigger what he called a huge tax liability, he reported selling more than 900,000 shares at a price range of 1135 to 1196 on Monday, not a bad exit, we're still not back to those prices. The difference between the value when you exercise the options, and check this out, the exercise price of $6.24, man. How's that, having a call option basically, at $6 under the $1100 equity, the difference between those two values is what is taxable income and likely a tax deduction for the company. I mean, this is important stuff. I got quite a lesson just even reading it as they walk it through it. The lower the share price goes, okay, if he continues to exercise options, the smaller his tax bill will be. So ideally, ideally, right, in Elon's world, okay, he would love to take the shares on Monday, exercise his options, that locks in the price of the tax bill that you have, and then it would be amazing if he could somehow just have a one-day pullback and then the stock rebounds so he doesn't hurt himself too much when it comes to the market capitalization or equity that he has in those shares. He would also owe taxes after selling any shares he obtains through exercising options based on any gain realized after exercising them. Those gains are taxes capital gains, though any quick sales would be taxed as a ordinary income because they were held for less than one year. You're talking about capital gains Tuesday, so he sold Tuesday and Wednesday at a price between 1,000 and 1173. Couldn't be determined the cost basis for those shares. Now, here's the interesting part that I've highlighted, okay. Thanks to the decline in Tesla's share price Monday, the CEO's tax bill is likely to be lower than it would be if he had exercised his options before the pull. For example, exercising at Friday's closing price would have yielded taxable income about 5% higher. If you don't think that's market manipulation, you're not paying attention, but he's not gonna get caught, folks, because you can't prove it, no way. All he did was ask a question on Twitter. He's got a very defensible position. He's a very intelligent man. He knows what he's doing, but if you're trading Tesla, that's one of the variables that you have to consider is that the CEO, richest man in the world, is totally cool with manipulating the share price as long as he has cover for himself to hide the taxes that he owes by tanking the share price purposely on Monday to get a lower price for the print when he exercised the options, causing himself a lower tax bill. It's really remarkable, folks, in terms of the way he's doing that and the way he's getting away with it. Not sure there's much he can do because he's got a little bit of cover there. Pretty astounding, nonetheless. We'll leave it at that. Tesla shares up 2.1% today. Let's jump over to Rivian. Rivian shares up 11.5%. Amazon had quite a wild ride yesterday up to 3,605%. You give it back down to 3,475. You're up 1.1% today. We jump over to some of those tech stocks. Microsoft shares up about 6.10% right now. We jump to Google shares up about 3.25%. Facebook shares up 1.2%. We got the NASDAQ 100 up a solid 7.10% right now as you got growth stocks rising to higher prices. All right, what else we got going on? Let's jump to some of the companies that had their earnings. We'll kick it off with one of my favorites and not a favorite last night. Disney misses on streaming growth. They were down about seven bucks last night earnings, 37 cents versus 51 expected revenue. They miss 18.53 billion versus 18.71. The headline news of that, people always wonder in because Disney, they are becoming a streaming company first. Added 2.1 million Disney Plus subscribers to a total of 118.9. That was more than a million miss in terms of what they were looking for. Let's see, however, Wall Street was more bullish. Company report 125, I guess 9.4. That's the first time I saw it that high. Numbers for the first quarter during the company's earnings call. Their CEO reiterated the company's goal of reaching 230 to 260 million Disney Plus subscribers by 2024. Keep it in mind, folks, okay? Netflix took 10 years to get to 100 million subscribers in Disney, down 8% now to 160. It took Disney two years. Disney's only been a streaming company for two years and they've got 118 million subscribers. Quite a pullback on a weekly basis. We're now back to the 50% retracement from where we were. And folks, if you're looking to get in Disney, you get back to this 153 area, which is back to November of 2019, let alone potentially back to the area we had in July, which would be about 147. But the reason why I bring up the 150 area, that's also gonna correlate to the 618 of the full run we had when Disney accelerated higher on the news of the vaccines, et cetera. You accelerate from a price point of about 117 up to 203. We've almost given back that 618. I love the 618, I love the 382. We chopped around at the 382 for a while. Disney accelerated lower on that miss last night. Keep your eye on 150 if you're looking to enter Disney shares, trading down about 8% today. We'll jump back folks, we'll check out some of the other companies. We got Beyond Meat, they're chatting about Beyond Meat. Fake Meat, not doing so well, Beyond Meat trading lower this morning, we'll pull them up when we get back from the break. Folks, stay tuned. 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That's tfnn.com and hit Watch Tiger TV. Welcome back, folks. We get the S&Ps up seven right now. Jumping back to Rivians. This is an interesting one. So they got public yesterday, this talking about, so if you pre-ordered an electric SUV or truck, you could've made some cash on that IPO as you were given some access for the IPO allocation. All you had to do was put down 1,000 bucks to reserve a Rivian electric SUV earlier this year. They talk about one gentleman it looks like, a consultant in Austin, Texas, put down 1,000 bucks to reserve it. He has no idea when he's gonna get that vehicle, but his down payment has already paid off dramatically when you look at what's happening here. So as a pre-order customer, you were able to buy into the Rivian IPO on Tuesday night as part of the company's directed share program. He purchased the maximum 175 shares, okay, at the $78 IPO price. And let's see, is he making more cash this morning? I think he is. Already you're up another 8%. As of the close yesterday, that was a gain of about $4,000. So think about that. Hey, 1,000 bucks forget to gain access to 175 shares of the IPO. You make four grand by doing that. You're up even more today, right? You're up 175 shares. You're up another almost $1,750 right now on that purchase at 109. Pretty cool how that's going down in terms of how they're doing that. And you may see that become more of, I was gonna say more of a feature. I mean, Rivian's in a class of its own though. There's not gonna be many Rivian IPOs that go IPO to public IPO valuation of $100 billion. But they reserved up to 7% of the IPO shares for the direct participants there as the company laid out in its perspective. So pretty cool how that goes out in terms of trying to service those customers. Not a bad idea in terms of trying to make the customers happiest. It seems like a move right out of Elon's playbook, right? I would believe that one in a big way. All right. What else we got going on jumping down the line here? We talked about Tesla, we talked about Rivian. Now we'll get to Beyond Meat. How about, let's see, they were down 20%. Wider loss of 87 cents a share for the third quarter compared to 39 cents missed on revenue bringing in 106 million versus 109. Now I'm pulling up a tweet here if I can real quick because they have some problems folks in terms of long-term growth on this equity. Come on, I gotta find it. All right, I'll find it at the break. In terms of, excuse me, one second, I thought I had it. Nope, that's not it. Here we go. Give me one second. Here we go, perfect. I'm not familiar with this gentleman, Charlie Bello, compound capital advisor. So he's some kind of financial advisor but nonetheless, look at these numbers folks. Beyond Meat, net income, okay? 2016, they lose 25 million. 2017, they lose 30. They lose 30 in 2018, they lose 12 in 2019. They lose 53 million in 2020. And year to date, three quarters through the year they have lost 102 million dollars. Not what you wanna see folks. We jump over to the chart B, Y, and D is their symbol down 17%. You take a look at this thing on a longer term basis. We're down at 78 bucks. Where's the next stop? Next stop is 55 at the lowest folks. Remarkable that you've given it all back. You were at 220 earlier this year. 220, you're trading at 78. You were 239 back in July of 2019. And I remember when that was happening folks, my dad and I were doing the program in the morning. And I remember comparing the valuation of a company like Beyond Meat to a company like, let's just say Tyson, right? Which has the complete build out in terms of delivery process, delivery network, et cetera. And the valuations were so close for a company like Beyond Meat versus a company like Tyson, which is gonna be a competitor, okay? Beyond Meat, I mean, there's nothing that's gonna prevent them from having competitors in this space. And you've seen it play out over the better part of really more than two years now on that that you got Beyond Meat down 17% at 78 bucks. And what are we dealing with right now? Let's see market valuation wise. Probably talking about 10 billion or something like that. Where are we at? No, five billion. Five billion we're at. So what are we at? Yeah, it would have pushed this company to about a valuation of $15, $16 billion back in 2019, which just seemed bonkers. We jump over to Tyson. I think that's TSN, yes it is. Now Tyson, you look at where we were back in 2019, let's find the prices. We're basically sitting at the same price that we were at in 2019. Give or take, we're at 82, you were in between about 80 and 90 during that period of time. And you look at Tyson for a valuation. Tyson is pushing $30 billion. And that was the point. You had a company like Beyond Meat that was over half the value of a company like Tyson Foods and Tyson's gonna have their own Beyond Meat folks. And they have the whole delivery network, distribution network. That's what I was looking for. They have the distribution for that type of thing. Just keep your eye on that. Sometimes a lot of equities getting a little bit ahead of themselves to put it lightly. All right, jumping down the line to some of the other stocks that we have moving today. So far, yeah, talk about a jump, man. They were up 13% better than expected quarterly results last night. A loss of five cents a share. Market was looking for a loss of nine cents. We jump over to their shares, S-O-F-I. Up 13.7% challenging the highs we had back in May. That high, 24.95. We reach a high, I think that's today of 24.65. Let's put it back on a daily. There you go, 24.65. Up 14% for so far, so far. A firm, the Buy Now Pay Later Darling, rallied 25% in early trading after announcing an expansion of its partnership with Amazon, quarterly revenue beat 269 million versus 248, a firm, man.  Up 16%, somewhere in this glimpse, they teamed up with Amazon. Maybe it was in October, I'm not sure. Maybe it was the jump they had in August. Nonetheless, you're talking about almost a triple bagger from where we were in August. Up to 176 recently, little bit of volatility recently. This seems to be the new vogue way for people to incur debt, which is a bummer.  Folks, if you can hold off without doing that, that would be advised to put it lightly because you never know when you're gonna need that cash in future months, right? You might be able to plan it in future months, but I know it's easier said than done sometimes, but unfortunate, in my opinion, that these Buy Now Pay Later companies are skyrocketing recently as it seems to be the trend that is gonna flourish in the future and that is not a trend that is gonna be beneficial for many people using that because if you're buying Now Pay Later on smaller priced items, boy, that is gonna hurt you in the long run where you're already adding to the debt that many Americans have on their credit cards student loans, et cetera. We talked about Disney in a big way in Bumble. How about Bumble? Not quite living up to the expectations, a loss of six cents a share, market was looking for break-even, revenue came in better than forecast, but looks like the dating boom, not quite back to where they want. There's Bumble shares, Bumble trading down 16% right now. Don't remember the last time I had this trend line on there, I hadn't taken a look at it in a while, but nonetheless, there we are. And interesting, I mean, that was a negative trend line. We accelerate above that trend line in August, we've now come back and tested that trend line and owed to our man, Bud Rolfs. Now, not a channel line, okay? We don't have a channel line really for me. You could say maybe that channel line is on the lower boundary here, but y'all do want to keep your eye on that because interesting how we've come right back to that channel line. We were just trading at 60 bucks a month ago, folks, not even a month ago, and Bumble back to 40 bucks right now, you're talking about let's pull up the valuation real quick before we jump to break, $5 billion company for Bumble. Right on par with Beyond Meat. Bumble, $5 billion. Beyond Meat, $5 billion. Both of them down dramatically today. Stay tuned, folks. We have the S&Ps up by 10, we got the NASDAQ up 98. We're gonna come back and talk a little bit about our man Larry Pezzavento. It's got a live trading webinar coming up in six days, folks. Next Wednesday, right back. Sharpening your skills as an investor is like getting better at playing a musical instrument. You have to practice, sure, but you also need excellent instruction from experts. At TFNN, you'll get advice and guidance from the authority and technical market analysis, and it's not just dry, tedious text either. TFNN airs live financial content streamed live on TFNN.com and TFNN's YouTube channel with Tiger TV, live every market day from 8.30 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. Eastern for free. Each host is an experienced trader and gives their take on the market while taking calls and questions live from around the world. From the moment the market opens until the closing bell sounds, Tiger TV has eight different shows with expert hosts to help you make the right moves with your money. 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This segment is brought to you by Think or Swim. For more information, just click the Think or Swim banner on the front page of TFNN.com. Welcome back, folks. With the S&Ps up 13 points right now, NASDAQ 100 up 122. Let's jump to Tesla. Always interesting, man. Talk about some market volatility. Tesla up 1.2% today, trading at 1,081. We jump over to the TFNN homepage, folks. Larry Pezzavento, his program. Coming up at 11 a.m. Eastern time today. Next Wednesday, he's not gonna be doing his show, folks, because he's gonna be in there for five hours live trading for a live trading webinar. Trade what you see Wednesday, November 17th. Six days from now. Remarkable. I encourage you to come on over to the front page of TFNN. Check out Larry's webinar. He's got all of what he'll be talking about in there. Click on the link. You can see kind of what he'll be talking about in terms of methodology with the live trading that he'll be doing. Last one he did of this was in August. Doesn't matter if three or four months. This will probably be the last one he does. At least this calendar year, stretching into 2022. The cost to attend, $295 included in that, a free month of Fibonacci 24-7. That's a $97 value right away. So kind of brings the cost right down to $200 or under that level. This will be archived. The full five hours will be archived, folks. When you sign up, you immediately gain access to Fibonacci 24-7. You can experience that leading up to next Wednesday. Larry always does an outstanding job. For those of you that paid and attended in August, you'll be receiving free entry into this. Larry wanted to give you that. So it should be a good turnout. Should be a good group of traders in there, in the trading room, bouncing questions off Larry that we can all learn from. I'm looking forward to that as well. Check it out on the front page of TFNN. Six days from now, November 17th with our man Larry Pezzavento. Trade what you see, a live trading event. All right, checking back in the market. It's pretty tame action to kick things off, right? You look where we are on the S&Ps. You do dive a little bit lower, but kind of right back to where we were within a couple of points of the open right now at 46.54. Dow slipping a bit, under 36,000, 35,941. We got Bitcoin back above 65,000. We got crude right now at 81.89 in that gold contract, sitting at 18.63. And we'll finish it up with the VIX. We got a market that is trading higher. S&Ps, where the VIX is predicated, we get the VIX right now at 17.60. All right, folks, stay tuned. We got our man Basil Chapman. He did his show at 8 a.m. this morning. We're gonna play that right now for the Tiger Technicians Hour. Larry Pezzavento, he's live at 11. Check out his live trading webinar on the front page of TFNN. Fast Market coming up at 12. They'll be talking some payment stocks. Steve Rhodes, Dave White, and Tom O'Brien live this afternoon. Have a great Thursday, everybody.


You're welcome back to the breakfast and plus TV Africa it's time for you to take it's time for us to take you back to what happened today in history and quickly we'll be looking at 1964 and today in history now in 1964 October 14th of a precise Martin Luther King Jr wins the Nobel Prize or Peace Prize and that happened African-American civil right leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. has awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his non-violent resistance to racial prejudice in America. Now at age 35 the Georgia-born minister was the youngest person ever to receive the award. He advocated a non-violent civil disobedience to racial segregation. In 1963 he led his massive march on Washington and which he delivered is very famous very very famous speech I have a dream that particular address. In 1964 the civil rights movement achieved two of his greatest success and in October of that year King was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He donated the Peace Prize money that was valued $54,600 to the civil rights movement now Martin Luther King openly criticized the U.S. government involvement in Vietnam and turned his effort to win in economic rights for poor Americans that is really really commendable of him I would say he was really really a selfless leader. Absolutely and I'll just quickly mention you know in 1964 the Nobel Peace Prize came with a $54,000 prize at today it's worth about a million so if you get the Nobel Prize you know you get paid a million one plus you know so it's just like that just to let that amount go just imagine that I mean back then 54,000 in 1964 I'm sure for $4,000 was a lot you know I'm also seeing that at this point in time let's fast forward to now and asking how many persons would really like to let that go well not very many not very many you know but you know it's also you know very very dependent on the persons that we're speaking about you know any person who deserves a Nobel Peace Prize you know obviously has done a lot of work that doesn't necessarily require a financial you know reward you know hasn't necessarily lived his life because of what financial you know gains that he will get so I'm sure that there are people who can still turn down you know things like that or maybe donate you know the price to charity so they wouldn't necessarily turn down the Nobel Prize but it might turn the other might donate the you know financial wins to charity so I'm sure they definitely do exist I'm not sure I don't want to mention this I remember that I think it was Chino Achebe or someone you know who rejected something let me not go too far so I don't make a mistake but anyway in 1964 was worth 54,000 2021 is worth a million 100,000 plus dollars just quickly throw that in stay with us we'll take a short break when we come back our first major conversation for today we're talking about the possibility of a third force it's just about a year plus to the next general elections and we're talking what really you know the possibilities of a third force having any relevance whatsoever if you of course have been following political space lately you must have seen a few of these people starting to spring up here and there that's our next conversation coming up right here on the breakfast