Hi, everyone. Welcome. This is Sonali. Thank you all for carving out some time for attending today's webinar on the part one of the BX learning series in West scale and value. To all the attendees out there, please type in any questions you might have in the Q&A section and we'll try to answer as many as possible at the end of the session. I would now like to introduce our speaker. As the chairman of the franchise India group, he is widely admired for his non-confirmist operating style, direct and to the point advice and vigorous marketing tactics and strategy. He sits on the boards of several organizations and has been retained by several private equity funds. He has shared several global business forums on franchising and retail in India, US, Australia, Russia, Paris and London. In the spirit of sharing his thoughts, he has authored three best selling titles on subjects dear to his heart and central to his business. These include franchising, the science of producing success, take charge, building an entrepreneur mindset and it takes two to tango, achieving customer connect in shapeshifting India. Recognizing that more and more people in India are investing into active businesses and taking on the entrepreneurial path, he wants to serve this community better as a growth specialist helping entrepreneurs through knowledge and service on all aspects of buying, setting up and growing the business. With that being said, I would now like to welcome Mr. Gaurav Mada. Thank you, Sonali. Good afternoon friends and welcome to, as Sonali said, the first series of, you know, this we call it investing series and this would be about three different topics which we will bring every week. One is on investments and which is today. We will talk about how you should look at investments and different asset classes and so on so forth. A week on week we will go on and talk about different assets and where you should look after and what kind of, you know, those and don'ts are for the investment. Second is a series going to be on scaling the businesses and how you scale your investments. And third is how do you build value. So between investment, scaling up and building value will divide the series and, and every week we'll have one topic been done. So today is about investment. And, you know, I'll give you pieces of learnings which have come from a lot of knowledge base which we have gathered over the years, and also some of my own learnings on investment. So we will do that. And if you have any questions in the meantime, you can continue to ask in your Q&A box. So let's set some perspective first on investment and try to set some foundation. What kind of investors we see around, you know, in the space, we see two types of investors. One are what we call active and passive and this is what we discussed. To me, first starting point is there's nothing like passive. It's all active.  That should be the difference, you know, so it should not be that whenever you're looking to invest, you should never think like that. There is something like what we call a passive investment. There's nothing like a passive investment should be always active investments. And, and this only difference you can have in investments is that are you operating that investment or somebody else is operating for you. And I've divided this investors into further three parts, you know, and what we call the three f's of being investors. First is which we call the firm investors. And these firm investors are normally people who are well researched and they're very asset focused. So they would not do any other thing. They were very, very researched. They're deep coming from that domain. They understand that domain very well and they're very clearly going after that particular asset. So I've seen people have years and years, decades and decades invested only in equity. They would only invest in equity. There are people who invest into property. They would just invest into property. That's where the money went away. Well, well researched people if you give them other options, they will not go through that because they know how to make money in that particular thing. They're firm investors. Second are more flexible investors and this asset class is growing and especially professionals are like that. They always dare to diversify their risk. They try to diversify their investment class. They will put some money in the financial investment. They put some money in property and some other asset classes also. These are more flexible. But the third one, which I am seeing these days, a lot of them, which are what I call the freestyle investors. These freestyles are very impulsive, very high risk takers. They are normally first movers and sometimes they make a lot of wealth just because of their first mover advantage. So between these three kind of investors we'll find, one will find very firm, second are flexible and third are very freestyle investors. So there is a very entire discussion I will do today. And we will start with the first part, which means anytime you're looking to invest what we should look at. So I will start with the quote from the greatest author in the investment space. Benjamin and he wrote that the investment is a knowledge which pays the best interest. The knowledge investment in knowledge pays the best interest. When it comes to investing nothing will pay off more than educating yourself. So fundamental of any investment is that unless and until you're educating regularly yourself on on wherever asset class you're investing on or a particular business you're investing on that would pay. So first, a part to the discussion today is how do you really before you even start investing, how do you really decide where you want to go what kind of investment you want to do. And that starts with what we call your life and your financial goals. You know, sometimes people make financial goals, which is good to make but your life goals will not marry with it. So unless and until you marry your life goals and your financial goals together, then only the real results would come. So how do you do that? I mean, I feel that one of the things I really follow is what I call smart goals and smart goals are very specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and timely. So how do you design your smart goals? How do you design your structure? But let's before that we need to ask a lot of questions to ourselves before you and make a choice of investment. What stage you are in your life? You know, and I've seen my thinking myself I started my business at age of about 20, started making money I don't know how much was that business, but I was started making money, if that was to be called a business. And my thinking was very different at that time, and in 30s were very, very different now in late 40s is a very different. And I'm sure it would change even five years from now my thinking would change.  What is there going to be? So if you only do life goals or if you do only financial goals doesn't work. It has to marry with each other. What is your requirement? What is your life requirement? What do you see what happening? What are the critical things coming in next five years, 10 years with you? And how are you going to balance that?  Say if you have a say at a particular stage you have somebody to get married and you need maybe two crores at that time, and where is that liquidity going to come from? And at that stage what are you going to see and how your exits would come from your investments and so on. What is the meaning of wealth creation for you? You know, what is a lot of people talk about wealth creation but they cannot put a dot to it. They don't know what is the real wealth. What is the number? It's very difficult at times for investors to even put a number to it. You know why we talk about it but we don't have a definite number. First you need to really start with putting that number in your mind and that's where you should be following that. What is the current savings you have and current liabilities you have and how it is balanced between these two? Any investment you currently have and will continue to take your attention or need further investments. You know one of the areas which I found is that when you start investing fresh into something, you forget about what we already invested on. And they also have a lot of requirements both in terms of your time and in terms of the future investments. So unless you evaluate where you are at this stage currently, then you make a decision for making a new investment. First evaluate deep down your current investments and what kind of commitment these investments are asking for. What is your fallback capital? Which means that if the business for reasons doesn't do well or the investment which you have invested and not done well or it is not giving you adequate exit. You know sometimes you are parked in an investment and like these days what is happening with property.  So that they are asset rich cash poor and so sometimes in their other businesses when they have urgency they need to get the money back they are not able to do that. And I have seen a lot of industrialists, a lot of business houses failing miserably because they were always asset rich, but the asset was not able to liquidate at a time they needed. So their businesses became, you know, they dried, they needed cash flows, they needed more money that money was not able to come because all that money they took out and parked into a lot of land bank assets and so forth. So where is your fallback capital, your savings and have you measured that and especially for a lot of these startups professionals, they take a very big risk when they start investing right so they put all their savings. And sometimes they come out of that professional life and and start and like startups, a lot of colleges, you know, students come out of directly from college and start an enterprise for reasons that doesn't do it. What is their fallback plan, what where are they going to go, can they go back to their careers and start the careers back with their job opportunity would be available at that time or not available that all has to be calculated. And so you need to really know that what is your fallback capital or fallback plan, which is available. What you will bring in the investment outside your capital and the second most contribution thing you would like to do, I'll explain that. What happens, you know, always we try to whenever we try to do business, so we only think about what kind of capital we want to deploy. I think capital you keep it on the side, ask yourself, what is the second most important thing you bring it to that asset or to that business. Sometimes it is your skill, it is sometimes your experience in the industry, or whatever it is, what is the second most important thing, which you will bring apart from the capital in your investment. And that term sometimes is the biggest driver for this, for example, me at my level, I mean I always felt that I was best at broken or deal structuring or business advisory, that was my strong skill. So anything I have done in is around it, I've always been very successful, my investments have been successful, but a lot of times I've invested same capital into businesses which didn't marry with my skill. And that was not so successful. So it is very important that you find out which is the second most important thing you are bringing after the capital into your investment. It can be your time, somebody people bring in absolute 365 days time, sometimes you bring in a lot of knowledge base and capability or understanding your. So whatever skills that you have or whatever second most important thing you have to me to bring that. Now we go down to, so how do you marry your, how do you manage your financial goals, how do you define your financial goals, it's also very important because it's a very unending process, you know, what I call how do you keep the balance between competing and conflicting priorities, you know, so try to understand again, you know, you have a lot of competing priorities, which will come to the same investment you're doing, and also come some conflicting how do you create a balance between these two. And also, how do you balance between what I call the income generation and not building a long term value. So sometimes income is your monthly cash flows and your returns which are coming in which would pay your bills and continue to do that. Sometimes we get too focused on that we don't know where is the real answer for a long term value being created. And also dividing your financial structure into short term goals, short term goals would mean that how your current requirements which would be service one then mid prime goals, mid time goals also are very important that how do you invest and sometimes in a short term mid time, you also look at some kind of exit, and then reinvest into some other assets or whatever business you want to do. And a long term, I think one should have a strategy that which is what is five to 10 year cycle, or what is the investments you're doing in the same investment you can portion out at all. You can also look at short term cycles, you can also look at a mid term cycles, and there should be always a plan for a for a long term structure. Now let's talk about how do you really balance between what I call three things you know what is called saving cash flow and future investment. Now this I will explain you a little more in detail and this I have passed through my own experiences. Sometimes when you start early and I've seen this in startups. They any money comes in, they quickly want to buy a lot of things you know they want to buy it goes into the savings you know they want to buy the apartment they want to buy this. And so they sometimes eat into the cash flows also. And they, the companies don't survive or companies start passing through a cash flow problems. So, so you need to really divide any kind of investment you do very clearly what portion you will give it to your savings, what portion you will give it to continue to have your cash flows being healthy. And third, which is equally important is that what kind of money you will park on the side to recapitalize your business or to bring future investments. I have seen a very successful entrepreneurs business owners who do the first two right, because first two are always in their control, and they are able to do that they balance between their savings and cash flows, but they are never having enough capital to look at the opportunity when it comes. So a lot of times you miss opportunities, because you never have the kind of capital being earmarked for you to look at opportunities coming from outside. And you see currently, which I admire with the company like alliance. Look, what he's trying to do at this stage he's trying to unlock his equity, bring the company back in the terms of his building his chest on one side he's writing office debt, because he doesn't want the cost of capital going, and he making the company more healthier. On other side, we are hearing a news that he might be on the acquisition side. So this guy is a multiplier, you know what he's trying to on one side, trying to, you know, make the company's health good because he's taken entire cost of capital out. There's no debt available on reliance now. On one side he's actively unlocking so that he can bring a lot of reserves back because he knows there is a buy time coming and a buy time he needs to pull up his chest up so that he will have a lot of opportunities which would come underpriced at this stage where he can do that. And now he's in market and also actively looking at acquisition. So now you see, from this time to maybe next year, reliance would be up there for a lot of acquisition because he's built his chest up. And the company's healthy is no Lord, he has no debt sitting there, so he can survive so. So this is a very interesting time structures, how do you really put your savings, how do you put your cash flows, and how do you continue to build your chest up, wherever the opportunities keep coming in, you can put that structure. So this is something which is very important and, and finally you have to really place your this financial goal into what I call three, three groups, one is what they call alignment. How is it aligned with your, your life goals, how it is aligned with your growth, very important, you need to really see is this year on your growth for next 10 years or 15 years or 20 years.  Now, coming down to the second part, so first we really discussed on on, you know, what what should be the structure in terms of your life and financial goals. Now we will talk about how to research an asset, because from next episode we will talk about a particular asset and we go deep down into that but I'll give you now some tools of if you are investing, how do you research an asset. So researching an asset is first starting with understanding the business model itself I'm not talking more on the business but you can do the same thing on equity you can do in other investments, even real estate or any other investments which we are. And in the episodes coming in, we will talk about different asset class, which you can choose to invest. So first is a business model and business model can be further will break into three parts.  And that's very, very important to understand. You know, I'll tell you a story when one of the leading industrialists used to run very large company and I asked him this question. Once, you know, that why don't you invest into stock he had raised some money and the money was lying in the bank and he was, you know, lying idle at that time and it was just because he just raised that money and I gave him a suggestion that why don't you put the money because it's lying idle at this stage in some market and and some returns can be expected and markets were doing very well at that time. So he answered to me that I have raised this money because I only invest into businesses I know best and I know my own business best and I will only invest in my business. So which is very important unless and until you know where you invest in. That's why people read these and listen to these masters who talk about markets and so on for and they are never able to make the same kind of money that other people are making. Why they are not able to do that because they don't know what they're just doing it because others are telling them to do so unless and until you master the business value you understand where you you are investing you have actually gone through and you have invested the micro economics of that business. It will be very difficult you will be able to make gain out of that. Second, understand the growth which we talked about earlier also but growth, which is measurable, predictable and sustainable. How your growth would be measurable, predictable and sustainable, and that's very very important. Sometimes you are in the growth we clearly see a growth but we are not able to put some predictability into that. And now these days there is a bigger issue which is coming from a sustainability of this or a sustainability of enterprises. So you need to really define that growth in different parameters and you can go as deep as possible. And third, you should do a very strong market analysis market analysis also is done on a macro analysis and a micro market analysis. Because now these days particularly in this COVID era, we are generalizing situations. Delhi is very different to behaving today to what Bihar is behaving. So unless and until we understand which part of the world we are in, what is happening in our micro market, what is happening in a macro market. And macro market is about world economy, India economy, even a state economy but micro markets is your own city or markets you want to operate and work on that. So fundamentally first do your business model analysis and that should come with a strong business intelligence and that business intelligence should tell you that is it worth looking at the category or looking at the asset. Second, what is influencing this business you're choosing or asset you're choosing, right? What are the influences around and influences can be positive influences, it can be negative influences, it can be radical influences now these days. Even the consumer behavior can absolutely change like retail, retail had a very radical change in the consumer behavior. Consumer started, you know, asking more convenience and convenience came from home delivery and then the delivery company started coming. A lot of people were eyes shut, they were not able to see that big consumer change happening. And always whenever you look at, especially in businesses or even in passive investments doing in terms of stock market or the companies you're investing, continue to see the consumer insights. Consumer insights are the largest behavior trend which would impact the businesses. And if you are seeing a strong change in that happening and strong change in other markets you've seen this would all happen here. So you need to really change your investment cycle and look at changes and sometimes companies delay that understanding that and if they delay that understanding it can actually put, you know, adversely affect the investor money. And so you need to really see what is happening on the on this changes on the net least in the consumer insight. Finally understand the risk and risk, which means what is the internal risks and what are the external risks and how you marry with reward. You know, I have been particularly in our business in franchising. We see a lot of people who come and I even tell them very high risk situation, but they still go out and invest because they know the reward is equally high. There are investors who made their choices, because they understand and they're able to see that sometimes they are on a high reward kind of mindset. So they also don't mind taking high risk. So but one has to really do this balance of risk and reward, especially if you are investing into a business then the you need to really see what is our internal risks you are carrying internal risk can be a lot of things now. These days, businesses are very vulnerable and they have a lot of risk. They have security risk. They have data risk. They have intellectual property risk. They have a lot of other risk. They have even internal team members who became their competition as a risk. Similarly, you have external risk which comes from cost, you know, your competition, your customer change, behavior change. A lot of risks are there in the in the business. I personally feel that in last 26, 27 years of my running business, the last five, six years have changed drastically. I think risk is becoming a very strong part of your planning structure. If you're not planning in depth, you will not be able to do that. Now let's go into the stage where we need to really and once we have understood that this is how the businesses and and they would have their three things. As I said, just be revised this situation. How do you research on an asset research on asset research on business model research on what is influencing and what is the risk on that. Now let's go into my part on in terms of how do you evaluate a business decision or an investment decision. How do you evaluate if you want to invest in first build a case and case would be again what I call O2C. You know what means that anytime when you're making a decision to invest, you are extremely optimistic. When you're optimistic, then you don't want to listen to a lot of things which are coming to you. You're rather adverse. You become a shield that you don't want to look at it. So unless and until you shift your mind from being optimistic to a critic and continue to change the rules, you will not be able to build a strong case of your investment. So first try to do this what I call O2C optimistic to a critic or vice versa. So you need to while every investment you will do, you have to be extremely optimistic about the investment. But the best critic also comes inside you. So which is telling you a lot of things, but we're not listening. So unless and until we build the case, we'll not be able to do that. Second investment forecast cycle of reinvestment is very important. And I explain you later. Fundamentally, unless you sometimes we get into an investment and which we forecast the initial investment, but we don't know what is a cycle of investments coming for this. And that's something which you need to forecast. What would you need money after one year, two year, three year, would you have to fuel it up and what kind of cycle of investment is just coming in unless and until that is very defined. Don't make a decision on investment. Third is making a full business plan and change cycle. You know how the business is going to evolve businesses like humans, you know, so they keep evolving right.  When do you think the changes have to become what are these changes. For you know, this is where I have realized that most of the investments have been, you know, not been so fruitful because people were either adequately not adequately capitalized they were under capitalized, and they did not the complete investment cycle. So they didn't do complete investment cycles or businesses or or the any investment you've done was not doing this. You see a lot of projects in the real estate not being completed, because there was never a closure on the on the on the capital required. So a lot of people attempt the businesses they feel that the market would be bullish and markets are not bullish. They were not able to complete the projects and hence these instruments are all wasted and future people who invested with them has also visited the investments, or they would have to take a haircut. So capitalization is very, very important you need to really define the kind of monies which are required, and especially in these times you will find only the fit companies would come out and all the other companies will not be able to do that. Fifth is your do your legal and commercial due diligence in terms of if you're if you're getting into any investment, it might be in a real estate or a financial investment or buying the business. You need to do a lot of your legal study and legal advice, and then only make that I think and finally present your investment case to what I call your personal advisor. And the personal advisors are people who are not so influenced by you, they can also come with their own viewpoint. And that's why I call it a personal board. Sometimes you only go to your absolute first family and they are normally think or are influenced by you. And so don't go to them go to your personal board and this should be credible people who you should present your business plan or you think that you're planning to invest in that and hear from them. And, and then only do that so I will repeat it for everybody build your case, do your investment forecast, make a strong business plan with a change cycle, capitalization, legal and commercial advice, and also present it to your personal board.  In a certain asset, third is think also on exit, because exit is equally to be taught when you are investing. I think it comes the same day when you think about investing, you also think about exit. And, and I feel that the times have gone where people were faster for life in businesses or, or any other investment cases, you need to also think equally that when is exit going to be an exit is always into divided into parts. One is what I call planned exit. And second is very opportunistic. So opportunistic and planned are two different things. They don't really come in and both can exist, parallelly with you. So, planned is a when, when should the planned exit done. Most of the time I will tell you on a business cycle, business cycle has cycle where it starts from what I call incubation inception, then it goes to growth stage and it goes to maturity stage. And at a maturity stage, I've seen businesses need to be recapitalized, and they have to go up in the, in their annual stage, which means that they will have to renew themselves and go up now like these days. You see the auto companies auto companies are passing through a huge change cycle. Most of these companies are facing multiple issues. They have degrees of declining growth, and they have a lot of competition coming in. They have issues on people switching into electrical. So needs a future capital to be deployed, and a lot of other disruptions are going on. And then you have economic disruption, then you have this lockdown, then you have production issues and multiple other issues are coming in. So companies which would have a chest or would have a lot of capital with them to bring this change for renewing this and maybe look at a new industry which can come out of them, which is a new mobility which people would like to do. They would be only able to survive. A lot of them which would be already stretched or they would not be able to find either an exit or a recapitalization would not be able to do that. So when you come down to maturity level, you need to really ask, do you have that money to revise your company or reinvent your company or are put into renewal stage? If you don't have that, at this stage, you need to really look at a planned exit. And that's something which we strongly advise. Don't wait, otherwise you'll get to a decline stage. And decline stage, a value erosion happens. You don't get the value and you will not be able to even sometimes get a fight fire at that time. So one of the areas which we strongly advise all our investors at companies at business X is that when you come down to a point where you are absolutely at the top and you have mature, but you don't see your future going up and you will not be able to reinvest in the business to get to the next level. You will not be able to change the orbit where you are. At that stage, it is best. A lot of Indian companies who found a good exit for the companies which were companies which were say largest in India and they felt that they would be a time, either they have to merge with them by a global company or they would have to have that money, enough money. Like Hero took a decision to get out of there from Hero Honda because they had all the capital to look at the next level of growth themselves. So they were able to go to Africa, other places in the world and compete with Hero Honda in different ways. If they would not have that money, they would have actually merged themselves back with the Honda itself. So this is very careful decision. I think the best time to exit is the time where you are at the top. And if you feel that at this stage, you don't have ability to go to the next level or create a new orbit, then you will have to find a exit structure. Or sometimes, you know, people have to also find an exit where they feel that they don't have the kind of resources, energy, and that is the best time they need to pass the baton to somebody else. Being opportunist, I think, is also not a bad thing because I feel that sometimes we shy away not to really talk about exit, don't really talk to people around us. So if you are somebody who thinks that you need to really look at an exit point, then you need to go and surround yourself with investment ecosystem, how the investment ecosystem works. You need to really talk to both your strategy for a financial buyer, you know, because then also one should understand in exits I have found there are two types of buyer groups. One is very strategic to come from your industry, they have ability to understand your business and can turn around that business. And most of the times non-profit, non-performing businesses would always attract a strategic buyer. Financial buyers are purely their return-based investors, so always looking at businesses which are largely performing and they always give you a max value. So you need to really see where your business is and where your asset is and reach out to either strategic or a financial buyer and be very frank on that. You know, I'll give you an example, we run magazines and once I was traveling with somebody who was running a competing magazine with me, absolutely competing and he started just competing with us. We met at the airport and he said, why can't I come with you, with you going on the same side I'm going and we'll talk on the, so his car followed and he came in my car and we were talking. You will not believe in the first five minutes he told me would like to buy my magazine and obviously I was a competition to me and I have no reason to buy his magazine but I now think how straight he was in terms of taking this. He knew that only person who can fix this because it was a franchise magazine will have been me, so he offered me to do that. So this is how you should really talk about your exit, you should not shy away, you should really talk to anybody and even hire a banker or a professional service provider like this. BusinessX also is an investment bank which works with helping people who are looking to exit. Now I'll leave you with five things which I've learned in my 26 years of business career, which is very important whenever you're looking for investment. First is timing of the idea, anything which you invest, see the timing and anything which has worked for me is always got timing. If my timing was right for that idea, I was very successful and that's something which is a starting point. I've always seen you are always a winner if you are a first mover in the business. Second, find your own originality in investment. Don't follow other to invest, find your own originality. Why you are investing into this, what you're bringing into this and how you want to treat this investment. So you have your own originality on that idea. Third, I always feel that everybody talks about, diversify your investments put into multiple things. I feel that my own approach is little different. Second, I say 70% put concentrated investment, 70% of all put in concentrated in things which you are deeply confident on and stay committed on that. 70% on that and 30% maybe on a diversified approach. So I don't want to see a complete diversified portfolio, I see 70% concentrated and 30% diversified. Second, you need to take care of your investment, capital would come later. Sometimes people just putting capital can take care of your investment. No, absolutely no, you take care of investment. So fundamentally it is important that you are taking care. There is as I started the session with, there is nothing like a passive, you are an active investor. Even if you are putting money in the stock market or a mutual fund or something, you are taking care of your investment. Nobody else is taking care of you. And finally, fifth, which I have now learned earlier, I was very different, I will be honest. This is not something which was in the first 10 years of my investment or even 20 years of my investment. Now I think similarly, I feel the emotions can stay just a business or life. So fundamentally sometimes you need to keep your emotions away and not think. Sometimes we just marry them too much and it's just a business. If it does well, if it's not done well, you can just get rid of it. So fundamentally don't get emotional about your investments. Wherever you invested, if it is working for you very well, bring the continuity in that. And if it is not working out, just find your exit and move out. So this is something in the first episode, we'll talk about the next episode on scale up.  Then it will take up how to build value. And then we'll come back on investment and take one asset class and go deeper into that asset class, understand how to invest in that asset class and what are the risks and rewards on that asset class. So any questions you want to take? Sonali, if you're there. Sure, sir. So thank you first of all. Thank you so much for such a wonderful session and for sharing your valuable insights with all of us. I'm sure it is useful to all the attendees present out there. So thank you so much. And yeah, we have a few questions lined up with us. So I would just start with the first question. So it is from Mr. Rahman Chaudhary and he says, what are the investment opportunities in the new normal after COVID-19 pandemic, according to you? So very difficult question. I'm still in the discovery phase, Mr. Rahman. But I feel that, you know, first I don't, I'm not liking this new normal thing, you know, so I feel that the world is not changing. It's going to be the same as it should be. Maybe slight of changes would happen in terms of the way we behave over the next five to six months. And then we'll come down to what we used to do always. Maybe a behavioral change would happen. Yes, markets would shrink. That's for sure. And this is a good time to plan and put any investment you want to do, which industries, all industries are good. Even I think a lot of people are talking about gyms would not work or somebody saying this would not work. I don't see that. I'm maybe a foolish mistake on this, but I feel that world would not change. We build this, you know, hundreds of years, we have some civilization in bed. It's not going to change in this. But yes, some business would be out of it and there would be an opportunity for looking at those businesses. I would say some of the investments I would like to do in is more in technology, a lot of hyper local, Adrutech. So a lot of these industries would anyway would have grown, but now they have actually got a little bit of a spike in their growth cycles. A lot of, I would say, renewable energy, recycling, waste management. All these are very bullish industries to me. But otherwise you can just plan any industry. I'd rather I would say even a lot of, you know, looks like adversely impacted industries would also create a lot of opportunities. Acquisition opportunities in those industries also. And you'll see now that you'll see the bigger boys would start picking up, you know, the peak hotel change would start using as an opportunity to pick up a lot of assets at this time because a lot of people think their hotels would not run. But that's not true. And this time, I think even the, the fit of businesses would acquire not so fit businesses that happen. So, otherwise I'm, I'm bullish on, on all the industries. India, if you do anything to do with consumption, you cannot go wrong. Anything to do with consumption. Because we have this population to our advantage in that sense. Any other question. So we have one more question from Miss Sonil Krishnathri. And she says, in this current scenario, where we see liquidity and demand issues, we may see more sellers of their businesses, but less buyers or investors in the business. So are we prepared and have the adequate study and future plans to match the demand and supply of the business of buyers and sellers? Two questions. So I think you're absolutely right. The sell side will increase and buy side would shy while they were not going away. They would shy making the decision or they would become sometimes they become a confused group. They get too much on the plate and they, they keep looking at multiple assets. I think, yes, you're right. And this scenario is very typical. And I feel that the sell side has suddenly got a big, you know, supply side, which means that a lot of businesses would come in the market to sell. And buyers would not be so many, at least in the short term, which in three to six months, but as the markets coming in, you will see a lot of buyers coming in. And I also see, you know, there is a good mark on the MNA side. I think that MNA would boom in 2021. And a lot of buyers would come back with coins in the business and try to commit to action. The early signs would start coming in. And in this year, the next two quarters, but the real value would come in the 2021 cycle. And I would say that 2021 create a balance between sell and buy side. A sell side would continue to be in there for next two to four years. Rather, I think we will see in the fourth quarter of this financial year spike coming in the sell side. A lot of businesses when they are global companies, when they close their financial year or the companies which would India would have to close their next year financial year. So you will see a lot of things happening at that time. Wonderful, sir. So we'll just take up the last question for the session. The question says, if I don't have any savings, can I take bank loans and invest in businesses? Would that be a good idea? And yes, which bank provides loans without collections? No, without collectors. Yeah. So first, if you're starting a business and without and taking a loan, and this are, don't do it. You know, India is not very suitable for business loans.  And if you start a small business, because the cost of capital in India is ridiculous. And if it is very high, then you make money and take a loan and the service loan would become a very big difficulty. And I have an entrepreneur suffering when they take loans and this is a very, and these bankers are bankers, you know, they would put everything on block and they would sign your personal guarantee when they run out of your homes and things like that. So don't take a loan and try to do that. My advice would be at this stage, businesses you should do largely with your own capital. It's a good time to get into business. Fantastic time to get into business. You will get everything cheaper and great deals are available. Both recent deals are also good available and try to be with your own capital. Maybe start small. There is no reason to attempt bigger businesses or a much larger businesses than borrow capital. I don't think that should be done. Capital should be best and only borrowed when you have very clearly large projects and which has a cycle of investment and then you have to, that is the only one. And that also we have seen is not work. I mean, you see, companies and a lot of other companies are suffering called cost of capital, but I certainly don't advise in India for small businesses to do that. We're not Japan, we're not US, where loans are cheaply available. While government is always spoken about it, but really on the ground we don't have that. You know, so cheap loans are not available. And some grants came in, in between there was some Mudra finance and a couple of other finances available from MSME also available. If you get that, that's okay. There is a startup India registration which you do and then you give you one which is very small industries or things of that nature. Then it's fine, you know, you can borrow that kind of money. But otherwise, don't go to a bank loan and never ever try to do a personal loan and start a business. Never. It's shooting yourself in the feet. Great. So I think we'll just wrap up the Q&A round with this. Thank you so much once again, Gaurav sir. Thank you for a wonderful session. And thank you to all our attendees for being part of this session. Anything else you would like to say? No, thank you very much. Thank you kind of you to invite me and we are Business X as I said is an investment platform where we help companies, investors to invest into startups. They want to look at joint ventures if they're looking for fractional ownership or they're looking at even buying existing businesses. All that is a work of business. And there are hundreds and hundreds of opportunities listed on that. So you can visit that and choose the right option. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and see you next week. Same thing three o'clock Saturday for the next session. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Gaurav sir. Thank you to all our attendees. As sir said, we'll see you next week, next Saturday at the same time with another session on all about scaling up. So, yeah. Thank you so much for your time. And if you have any questions, any queries at all, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'll be very happy to clear any doubts that you might have and we'll see you the next time. Thank you so much.


Last week the government was talking about herd immunity strategy whereby 60% of the population would get coronavirus in a reasonably short space of time so over a sort of four or five months. And then ultimately we get through it and then by next winter enough people would be immune or have some immunity to coronavirus for us not to have another peak next winter next Christmas. We still don't know whether or not whether that immunity will happen I mean what most people are suggesting is that. With a normal coronavirus you do get immunity and it tends to last a year or two so it is three months right. Why different types of colds can be different lengths so cold can be anywhere between three months and two years was reached three three but I think it's it's more likely to be at least a season right so. So the science behind it wasn't completely ridiculous and what was completely ridiculous is the idea that the health service could handle 60% of the population getting coronavirus in a four week period not for sorry four month period and this became you know it seemed over the weekend that maybe the government shifted their strategy but won't be in particularly honest about it after we finished our show on Monday it got made public that actually the modeling that the government have been basing their strategy on. Was completely wrong it was wrong because they thought that only a very small proportion of people who entered hospital would be you know would have to go over into ICU to have ventilators and to have a much more intensive regime of care from the NHS. And the whilst the strategy this is the modeling when you actually put in the right data instead of the wrong data shows that the government strategy as it currently existed would kill 250,000 people. The modeling also showed that if the government took a different strategy so moving the government what they said is we're going to delay which means we're going to accept that basically most people are going to get it but we're going to try and what they would say flatten the curve. This this paper says that actually if they suppress it which is to say we try and stop as we try and make as few people pass on this disease as possible we can get deaths down to about 20,000. Now obviously it's good that the people who are making this model realize their mistake that's great but the fact that the government were pursuing the wrong strategy and it was always a high risk strategy even if it was the right strategy it was always a strategy whereby the downside of it is. Fucking awful and the outside of it is just that we have slightly less disruption. We were talking about this what a week two weeks ago and we said how do you communicate something which says well look a lot more people are going to die now than other countries but it's going to pay off in a year's time and even just a week later you look at that and you think wow that was insane. But in any case what was important in revealing this is it became clear that the modelling was wrong. And what we heard all last week from the government was anyone who said we think your strategy sounds overly risky the idea that you are just going to let this virus run wild in the hope that enough people get herd immunity we're not sure we're comfortable with that. And what were we told not just by the government but also by Laura Koonsburg Robert Peston all of the media was like the government are being led by the science we were even told that we're headline saying Boris Johnson was thought of as a populist he's proven he's not because he is being led by the science. That whole period of time there were people from the World Health Organization. A bunch of incredibly reputable scientists the editor in chief of the Lancet saying that this this strategy is crazy every other state around the world every other state around the world saying that this is not how coronavirus works. We were told no listen to the science isn't the science so I thought the fact that this had been revealed would mean that actually maybe the media would become a bit more critical about what the government means when they say we're being led by the science. For example the Labour Party were calling all over the weekend for this modelling to be made public they were saying at least if the outcomes of this modelling seem a bit counter-intuitive we should at least be able to see the modelling. If this modelling from Imperial College had been made public a week ago someone would have noticed that mistake right. And so I was hoping that the BBC would change their tune but let's look at actually how this was covered so we can go to now a tweet from the BBC news. Suppression is the only viable strategy at the current time and it says the science has shifted dramatically which is why people in the UK are now facing huge changes to their daily lives. So it's the science that has shifted this wasn't nothing about politics here this was the science that shifted and the official line is new information has emerged. It was we only realised this many people are going to ICU and we looked at Italy. I'll show you in a moment why that's bullshit but let's now look at the Beth Rigby tweet so she's political editor at Sky. Analysis we've talked about another of her big tweets where she always puts them in analysis and then just writes what could be a government press release. Why the step change the facts have changed. The senior government source told me last night we've had to accelerate we thought we could put these measures off for another week and push social shielding back a week after then but we've had to bring it forward. So she said the science has changed there was no mistake that was made new information emerged and our government who are being led by the science responded to that new information and changed policy.  So take it from the editor in chief of the Lancet Britain's most prestigious medical journal. I will take his tweet Laura Koonsburg says that the science has changed this is not true the science has been the same since January what has changed is that government advisers have at last understood what really took place in China.  I watched BBC News last night the package included you know it didn't mention the WHO didn't mention that the government adopting this strategy was controversial. All they said was the science has changed they said new information has emerged from Italy which means the science has changed. They interviewed two experts who are the two experts they were both people from Imperial College who had worked on the original modeling. You know it's like you couldn't you couldn't make it up like the BBC at this point in time for the government to be creating good policy which keeps us alive has to be holding their feet to the fire. Not just attacking them for the sake of it because obviously we it's one of the few occasions where we at Navarra Media want the Tory government to succeed. But to make sure that the advice they're giving is the correct ones and the actions they're taking is the correct ones and nothing has you know you're saying Theresa Mays line nothing has changed. We've seen that the science that the government is accepting is not sent from God it can be mistaken in this case it was seriously dramatically mistaken and lies will be lost because of it. Which means that this needs to be public which means that scrutiny needs to be allowed not dismissed. And that means that our media establishments need to take their job seriously.


That's right, folks, be for comedy. Your taste will tell you about Camel's rich, full flavor. Your throat will welcome Camel's cool mildness. So draw off a chair for tonight's show, starring what, Abbott?  What did you say?  Yeah, terrible thing happened.  What did Uncle Addy do? What could he do? He married the bear's daughter. Did you see any big game? I saw a giraffe, but I didn't shoot him. He had a sore throat.  Oh, yes, there is. What? A centipede with corns. I didn't think you ever went hunting in your life, and I don't believe you did. I'll bet you haven't even got a hunting license. I have, too. Here it is. Wait a minute, wait a minute. There's no hunting license. This is a picture of Hedy Lamar. You hunt what you like, and I'll hunt what I like. Boy, that's ridiculous. Oh, yeah, my Brunner and I, we used to hunt alligators. Alligators? Yeah, one time an alligator was just about to attack my Brunner law. I fired off both barrels of my trusty rifle. Did you kill the alligator? See the swallow? Genuine alligator? No, genuine Brunner law. Doc says, come here, look at this. You see this picture? Now, I've kept all these rabbits last winter. Now, how many would you say there are? 876. That's exactly right. Oh, wait a minute. How did you guess it? Oh, I just count the legs and divide by four. Costella, have you ever been in Africa on the safari? No, but I've been in New York on safari. The safari in New York? Yeah, the Staten Island safari. And also the whole Brooklyn safari.  Lots of safaris around there. Hey, listen to me, though. You should have been with me on my elephant hunt. Oh, there I was surrounded by elephants. One big bull elephant started towards me. I said to myself, I'm trapped. Abbot, you're trapped.  You've been doing all right up to now. The elephant fell and broke a tusk. Broke a what? A tusk, tusk. Tusk, tusk to you two and a couple of poo-poos. Gone on. A tusk is valuable. We use 50,000 elephants a year just to make billion balls. My? How do they train those big, clumsy beasts to do such delicate work? I can see you. I can see you know nothing about elephants. I once held 100 elephants in India with an old acquaintance of mine. And an elephant sat on them. Something I got to go back there. Why? To scrape up an old acquaintance. Yeah. Hey, Abbot, did you ever shoot a zebra? Yes, I did. Could I have that zebra skin? Oh, what do you want with a zebra skin? My aunt, Minnie, is in Alcatraz. She needs a new fur coat. Oh, that's silly, Castella. However, I have a stuff that rhinoceros you can have. Of course, you know what a rhinoceros is, don't you? Oh, sure. That's a hippopotamus would have readied her cat. Now, come on out there. I know you're breathing. All right. Castella, this is the last week of the big game hunting season. Now, tomorrow I'm going hunting in the High Sierras. And I'd like you to come along with me. Oh, gee, thanks, Abbot. Say, you've done a lot of hunting.  Nats. I asked you a civil question. What did he call those little flies? Nats. And that's to you, too, brother. No, no, no. Nats are the flies that annoy the animals. Of course, some of them have ticks. Why don't they take the ticks and give those flies a good trashing? I didn't say sticks. I said ticks. For instance, there's deer sticks. The deer ticks? That's certainly deer ticks. Who want them up? Oh, nobody want them up. And what makes them ticks? Somebody must have slipped a groom in his groom. Castella, when I say, listen to me, please, when I say deer ticks, I don't mean the deer ticks. I mean deer ticks.  Oh, come on, please, talk sense. The deer has ticks, and the ticks bother the deer.  Ticks bother you in school? Yeah. Arithmetic ticks? Mathematics? And one time, a tick got me in trouble with the teacher. Oh, now, wait a minute. How could a tick get you in trouble with the teacher? I ticked my tongue out at the teacher, and she trounced the tweet of my trousers with a twat. Dr. Lowe, I'm talking about animal ticks. Hundreds of animals in the woods have ticks. That must be a pretty sound. 100 animals get together, and they all start ticking at once. No, no, listen, Castella, listen to me. Deer have ticks. Elks have ticks. And one time, my father shot a moose with ticks. Now, do you know what I'm talking about? Sure, your father's moose ticks. Oh, no.  I don't know what to do with you. I don't know what to say to you. I've tried, and I've tried to improve your mind, but I just can't seem to get anywhere. Why don't you face it, Abbott?  Here for Camel Cigarette, Sir Skinny Anderson the Boys with Percentamental Reason, Skinny on the Vocal. I love you, sentimental reason. I'll give you my heart. I love you, and you alone were meant for me. Give your loving heart to me, and say we'll never part. I think of you every morning. I love you every night, darling. I'm never lonely. Whenever you're inside, I love you. Hope you do believe I've given you my heart. The changes of American history are illumined by the names of doctors who worked unceasingly to overcome disease and to make life happier and more secure for humanity. The makers of Camels are pardonably proud of the standing of this cigarette among doctors. A nationwide survey of doctors' cigarette preferences was recently made. Three leading independent research organizations asked this question of 113,597 doctors, doctors in every field of medicine. What cigarette do you smoke, doctor? The brand named most was Camel. Yes? According to a recent nationwide survey, more doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette. I'm ready to go hunting with you up in the mountains. That's fine, Castella. How is your hunting equipment? I got the best, Abbott. Look, Cornell Wild's old address book. Go ahead. Castella, hunting is a serious sport.  What would you do? Ask him for a ticket to the Rose Bowl game. Oh. You know, Marilyn Maxwell and the Skinny Anise are going to meet us at the hunting lodge. And I hope you brought something along. I did. I brought a quart of bourbon in case somebody gets a chills. What are you bringing, Abbott? The chills. Did you bring a gun? Well, yes. Here it is. This is my sold-off shotgun. Wait a minute. Where is the handle? How do you like that? I sold off the wrong end. Marilyn and Skinny are waiting for us at the hunting lodge in the mountains. Let's go. Oh, no. Wait a minute. Don't insult Castella, Skinny.  Skinny ain't no pill. He's too long and narrow.  Hunter, Skinny, do you know anything about guns? I know guns inside and out. My man, when I was a kid with the circus, they used to shoot me out of an air rifle. What do you know about them? Have you seen that big bear rug in my living room? Sure. Well, I shot that bear myself. What a battle. It was either me or the bear. Well, I'm glad it was the bear. He's making an awful, luffy rug. Hey, look, Castella. Here comes Marilyn Maxwell. Hi, you boys.  Oh, Marilyn. My sugar-coated sharpshooter. Plug me with a buckshot of your kisses. Lewis, honey, how do you like my hunting outfit? That's this avenue.  Army surplus. It's going to be fun hunting with you. What's your favorite wild game? Post office. Post office isn't a wild game. It is the way I play it. Lewis, my little snowman, come melt in my arms. Jane Marilyn, when I'm close to you like this, I just can't seem to break away. Why not? My nose has caught in the trigger of your shotgun. Lewis, if you'll excuse me, I'll go up to the hunting lodge and freshen up. As they say in Spanish, mañana o ya noches to you.  Hey, Castella, Castella, look up on that mountain top.  Yeah, Abbott, can I ask you a question? Certainly. When the mama stork talks things over with the little storks, who does she say brings the babies? Yes, there is. Why? Well, you better walk him down into its hole. Are you a stranger? I'm the game warden. Yeah? What's your game, warden? Is it a steep game? No, we only play for a tenth of a cent. We're after some big game. Have you seen any hearabouts? Hearabouts? Hearabouts? Abbott, I thought we came up here to shoot deer. I wouldn't shoot a poor little hearabouts for anything in the world. Anybody that will shoot a little hearabouts and make a widow out of a she-abouts ought to be ashamed of themselves.  How about it, warden? Is there any big game around here? Well, there's a ferocious mountain lion that has been terrorized in the countryside. He's been killing the farmer's chickens and he's even been stealing eggs. At the price eggs are now, I don't blame him. Well, it's to the man that gets that mountain lion.  Which one of us would you suggest? Why don't you try, Tubby? You got the biggest trap. What kind of stockings can you make out of blind skin? Nile. Which way south? If you're afraid, you're not afraid to take this chance.  Yeah. I'll take this cane, you see it?  Yeah, but how fast do I have to be carrying the cane?  The last time I saw a lion was in the Adirondack Mountains. What happened? I snapped at the line, then the line snapped at me, and then something whizzed past. What was it? Kansas City. Quiet. I hear something. Listen. I love you. Ouch. I love you. Castella, what was that? Two porcupines. Snacking. Cigarettes bring you the lovely Marilyn Maxwell from MGM, producers of their Academy Award Contender the Yearling. Accompanied by the four hits, Marilyn sings Blue Sky. The sky and the blue. When you take your first puff from a camel cigarette, there's a delighted response from your t-zone. That's tea for taste and tea for throat, the proving ground for any cigarette. Your taste and your throat tell you you've made a wise selection. See how choice tobaccos, superbly blended and properly aged, give camels a rich mellow flavor that's extra delightful to your taste. See if camel's own cool mildness isn't exactly what you've always wanted to suit your throat. Yes, millions say camel suit my t-zone to a tee. You know, a nationwide survey of doctor's cigarette preferences was recently made. Three leading independent research organizations asked this question of 113,597 doctors. What cigarette do you smoke, doctor? The brand named most was camel. Yes? According to a recent nationwide survey, more doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette. Right, Castello. All right, now take it easy, kid. I'm right in back of you. Don't worry about me. Here's the mouth of a cave. Now, go in there. That's a pal for you.  You want me to go in and get the lion on eye? Actually, I'm your friend.  Oh, what do you mean? You want me to go in? I have a family. Oh, what I got? Never mind what you've got. You go ahead and get that lion. OK, I mean, what's the matter? You scared? Look at you. Your knees are docking. I always knock before I enter a cave. Take it easy. Buck up, Castello. And remember, make the lion believe you're not afraid of him. I couldn't be that deceitful. You've got to think of those poor people who've washed their cattle and their chickens and their eggs on account of that lion. How can you face them, Castello? Think of it. How can you face them when they may be starving? How can I face that lion? He may be starving, too. Oh, there you are, Lewis, honey.  I know you're going in that cave and kill that lion just for me. I am? Yes. And Lewis, honey, I'd do anything for you. Why, I climbed the highest mountain. I'd swim the deepest river. How do you like that? Here I am facing death. Death. And this dame is going to go out climbing and swimming. OK, I'll go in. But if that lion runs out, don't nobody shoot at him. Oh, it is. I may be inside of him. Gee, it's certainly dark in this lion's cave. Why don't you lie to Max? Who said that? It's me, the lion. What do you know, a talking lion? I got to tell Abbott, Skinny, and Merlin about this. Oh, no, no, you must never tell anyone. I'm a hermit, and I just hate people. I wear this lion's skin to scare them away. I live in this cave all alone. How did you find this cave with all the housing shortage? I subleasted from a bear that went on the road with the skating act. You must get lonesome here all alone. Why don't you get a roommate? I had a roommate, and milk. And then the meat shortage came along. You mean that season two, hanging on this wash chain? Yeah. Well, it ain't mine. Look, Mr. Hermit, my girl is outside. I promised her I'd bring out the lion. Give me that lion's skin, and I'll take it out there.  Here, take the skin. Oh, goody, goody. Now I can be a real hermit. And then I won't be bothered by Lucille Ball, Betty Gravel, or Marilyn Maxwell. Gee, do they call you? No, that's what bothers me. Hey, look, here comes Costello out of the cave. Oh, my hip. Bring him back alive, Costello. When there is danger, who's the one they call? Costello. Yeah, you've hunted a lot of big game. Tell me, did you ever hunt bear? I can't have it. The bushes tickle me. Once I saw a mink, though, I saw a mink crying in the woods.  Someday you must take me hunting with you. I will, Marilyn, my love. And you can ride on my Papa Jackass. A Papa Jackass? Well, how do you know he's married? All jackasses are married. I celebrate tonight. We'll go to the smartest restaurant for dinner, see the best show in town, and then visit all the swanky nightclubs.  There's no one else. Penguin, he looks so awful cute. I haven't got the penguin, but I'm wearing his dress suit. There's something phony about this. Turn that skin over. There's a label on that lion's skin, Costello. Come on. Eastern Columbia, burst the moment for camel cigarettes. During the war, the makers of camel cigarettes sent a total of more than 150 million free camels to our fighting men overseas. Now free camels are sent to servicemen's hospitals instead. This week, the camels go to Veterans Hospital Atlanta, Georgia, US Army Valley Forge, General Hospital Phoenixville, Pennsylvania, US Naval Hospital Newport, Rhode Island, US Marine Hospital Staten Island, New York, and Veterans Hospital San Fernando, California. Camel broadcasts go up to the United States three times a week, a rebroadcast to practically every area in the world where our men are still stationed and to our good neighbors in Central and South America. And here are Rabbit and Costello with a final word. By the way, Costello, the December 10th issue of Look Magazine has printed the pictures of your big barbecue party for the kids. Yes, did you see it, Abbott? I did. I saw your picture, your wife's picture, your kids' pictures, and my picture. But I didn't see my wife Betty's picture. And I know they took Betty's picture. Now, where's my wife's picture? Why wasn't it in there? Well, the fella that took your wife's picture couldn't develop it. Why not? He was afraid to go into the dark room with it alone. Dark room. More pipe smoke, Prince Albert, than any other smoking tobacco. And that's a perfect guide to your choice of a Christmas gift for any pipe smoker, Prince Albert, naturally. Prince Albert's rich, full-bodied flavor and cool mildness spell Christmas joy because they spell lasting smoking joy. Crimp cut to burn cool and even, specially treated to ensure against tongue bite. That's Prince Albert. Give the big palm package of Prince Albert with its special Christmas wrapping to all the pipe smokers on your list. Be sure to hear Prince Albert's Grand Ole Opry Saturday night, read fully the new singing sensation, sings American folk songs in a way that'll make your heart beat faster. Remember, Saturday night on NBC, Grand Ole Opry with read fully the duke-a-pa-duke-a and mini-pearl. You're to tune in next week for another great Abaddon Costello show brought to you by Camel Cigarettes. And remember, try Camels in your tea zone. See if they don't suit your taste, your throat to a tea. And remember too, that giving a carton of Camels is especially warm-hearted way to say, Merry Christmas to all smokers on your gift list. C-A-M-E-L-S. This is Jim Doyle in Hollywood, wishing you all a pleasant good night for Camels. Thursday night is another all-star night on NBC. Stay tuned for the Any Counter show, which follows immediately over most of these stations. This is NBC, the National Broadcasting Company.


I'm here in Largo, Argentina. It's a great background to talk about Republican Rome. And today we're going to be talking about specifically 146 BC. Maybe you know the state, maybe you know that that's the year in which Carthage was destroyed, but there's so much more happening in Rome and its empire in this critical year. So today we'll take a look at what leads up to 146 and we'll look at the aftermath. Ultimately, let's say, culminating in the city of Rome with a great building revolution. Today, let's talk about 146 BC. Okay, so here's what we're going to be covering then. What happens before 146 BC, particularly a little review of the third and second centuries BC leading up to the destruction of Carthage, in particular, then we'll hone in on the early second century BC. Again, episodes leading up to the ultimate annihilation of Rome's great foe, really, in rival in the western half of the Mediterranean, then we'll turn to that actual destruction of Carthage and then pivot over to the east and see how these things are all interrelated. Not that Corinth was the great rival of the Romans in the east, but it was a major city, it was a major port and ultimately the Romans are going to be making an example of it to a degree of how they're making an example of Carthage in the west. And then I want to turn to what we spend so much time looking at in ancient Rome live in all of our entries. Now the urban center of Rome, the second century really is a watershed moment and we'll take a look at just how many important structures, the things that we call ultimately typical Roman architectural features are really getting defined for the first time in the second century BC, largely around this major conquest that's taking place against the Carthaginians as well as a lot of Greek city-states and kingdoms in the east, and then a couple of insights into the political and cultural ramifications that are as a result of all of this success of the Romans and then enlarging their empire, really defining this great empire that they have been working for centuries on, but it's really snowballing here towards the end in the middle of the second century BC. So a little bit of background, we did have another video on this, the conquest of Italy that culminates in the defeat of Pyrrhus of the Pyrrhus and Taranto down there in the heel of the boot of Italy and from that point the Romans are drawn into conflicts in Sicily, largely, right there in the Straits of Messina, and because the Greek, let's say the Greek kingdom of Syracusa that really largely dominated Sicily gets involved in conflict, gets embroiled with the Romans, and ultimately a Carthage is also that has some land controlled in points in Sicily is drawn into the conflict and then really it's step aside, Syracusa and let these two heavyweights duke it out, and that's the first Punic War, a lot of naval battles, a lot of successes, and there is a period of calm, but with the second Punic War it's all-in-out war in Rome's backyard, and you have famously Hannibal here shown in a early 16th century fresco in the Capitoline Museums, and that is by Giacobori Panda, and it is just a fun image to take a look at how people over time are conceptualizing Hannibal, but he did loom large in the consciousness of the Romans in the second Punic War because he literally was there in the back door and moved freely throughout southern Italy for quite some time, but finally the Romans moved the war into the backyard of Carthage, and it's there in modern day Tunisia at Zama that the General Scipio defeats Hannibal and the rest is history, but actually what happens is the Romans pretty much tied up the loose ends of what Carthage was going to be allowed to do after this second conflict, but Hannibal himself ultimately is going to be leaving Carthage and is going to be spending his time as a political refugee, as a military strategist and expert, to a lot of people in the Greek East, people in the Greek East that are getting in contact with and are battling against the Romans as the Romans head east, and he is a real thorn in the Roman side until finally his death in 181, but there is this paranoia, this concern about what is Hannibal going to do to stir up trouble for us, what are the Carthaginians capable of, certainly they didn't want to go into a third conflict, but they did. Now getting closer to the conflict of the third Punic War, let's look at what the Romans are turning most their attention to, they're turning their attention to the east, again that's where Hannibal is going to be going, and you do have a lot of conquest of the so-called successors of Alexander the Great, so he dies in 323, his generals then carve up his empire, of course a lot of the empire was what we call the Middle East, it's Egypt, and it's a lot of the Persian empire, so that is where the Romans are turning to next, and we have the rise of great generals, not just Scipia, but we have Fomininus who defeats Philip V of Macedon, Alexander the Great himself was Alexander of Macedonia, so you have that idea of places, kingdoms, people that have some of the wealth achieved by Alexander the Great sending their own kingdoms, and they are taking out one by one by the Roman armies, Rome against Atticus III, so what we call Syria today, the Galatians that's in Turkey, Emilius Paulus in 168 defeats Persians of Macedon at a place called Pidna, set up a very famous trophy in Adelphi, so we're looking down here, decade by decade victory after victory after victory for Rome, and of course people are getting triumphs, they're big military victory parades in the city of Rome, they're bringing the spoils of war, it's the money, it's the slaves, and all this newfound revenue as areas that are conquered are going to be taxed, provinces are going to be set up, Rome's first international overseas province was Sicily after the Second Pinoch War, and then you get Sardinia, and then you're moving over to the east obviously, it's an unstoppable machine, and it's really picking up tempo let's say in the early second century BC, and then we're going to now turn our attention to Carthage, because the Romans are not forgetting what literally is just across the way from their territory that they've conquered in Sicily, you can see Tunisia from the southernmost part of Sicily, it's that close. First we'll talk about Carthage, its destruction, what led up to it, we've already had two Punic wars, and yet Rome felt compelled in 149 to start a third war against Carthage ultimately culminating in its destruction, finally realizing that statement by Cato the Elder, Carthage must be destroyed, Carthago the Lenda est. The destruction of Carthage, you have the ultimate concern, perennial concern, let's say the members of the Senate led by Cato the Elder, who's already a well-known statesman in the 180s, is hounding and harassing his fellow senators that look at what Carthage is doing, they're able to pay off the thousands and thousands of, you know, the gold, the talents of silver in a short order, much faster than the Romans ever thought they could, and the produce that is arriving in the city of Rome is coming from Carthage, you know, in the same day, so he leads up with and he continues in his speeches that Carthage must be destroyed, he's saying this almost on a daily basis, and it leads ultimately to an assessment of how Carthage is, the Romans are really, you know, paranoid at this point because the Carthaginians are smart merchants, they've always done well, but they've lost all the land holdings from the previous war, they no longer have land holdings in Sicily or Sardinia or in Spain, they don't have the silver mines that they opened up any more, the Romans have taken that over, and yet still the Romans are paranoid, and war is finally declared in 149, and we have the account by the Greek historian, first true great historian that we have recorded about Roman history, he's writing in Greek, he's befriended, he's in the circle of Scipio Africanus, and ultimately we have the total destruction, the raising of the walls, the sowing of salt in the fields, and so on, but let's face it, it's too much of a good thing there in Carthage, and within a 15 years they're already talking about colonizing it, they've got a great double harbor, it's in a unique strategic position and so forth, and then really it's not really going to take off until we get to Julius Caesar in terms of a large colony being constructed, but it was something that the Romans ultimately deemed necessary to sell off the population as slaves, to just totally liquidate the assets of this civilization, here is a horrific kind of view, and this is by Edward Pointer in 1868, just one of those scenes of the siege of Carthage, and it really was something that left an impression on Romans and school children for future generations, but everyone remembers that quote, that anecdote of a Polyvius remarking that as Carthage, you know, the walls are being knocked down, the city is being sacked, Escipi himself is seen to be weeping, and when Polybius asks, you know, why are you crying, he says, well, because this is the end of these people, and of course I know that one day this fate will fall, my people, my city of Rome, so it's something that the Romans were very much aware of when they had finally then removed their great foe, and in fact, without the Carthaginians then, what was holding back the Romans from the total domination of the Mediterranean, and they could further turn their attention to the East? 146 BC, the destruction of Carthage, but another pivotal event took place in that same year, the destruction of Corinth in the eastern half of the Mediterranean, why did this take place in the same year? What were the repercussions? What led up to this event? Let's talk now about 146 and the annihilation of the magnificent city of Corinth by the Romans. Okay, so briefly we talked about the various forays into the east and the just successive victories of the Romans against these various successor kingdoms of Alexander the Great, the Seleucids, the Macedonians. It really was something that was, I mean, the Romans, we see them with their treaties, with their amikittia, their friendships or relationships with these Greek city-states and these kingdoms, that ultimately there's a reverence. There is an appreciation of that culture and politically, there are oftentimes, as opposed to what they're doing in the West, remaining largely hands-off in their dealings with the inner workings of the Greek politics and city-states and so forth, and it led eventually to infighting amongst themselves and the Greek cities, the Greek city-states, and ultimately the Achaean League, one of these groupings of various city-states that ultimately decide to rebel against the Romans to throw up their shackles even though the Romans' approach to dealing with the Greeks and their own inner complexities politically, socially, culturally, wasn't enough. And when the Romans then decide to come down hard, they literally crush the League quickly, and the general name Lucius Mumius, there's a great inscription by him, directly by him, that's in the Museo Nacional de Romano, Museo de la Terme. He is leading the troops that advance to Corinth, siege the city, and then ultimately sack and raise that city to the ground. Here is a horrific image by Tony Robert Fleury of 1870 and what's going to be the sequel? The sequel is that this too will become a Roman colony, a great Roman city that's going to flourish. Why? Well, again, like Carthage, it had a great natural harbor, it was a great port, and the Romans were going to ignore those facts and they built up their own city.  So it's an exciting place to visit if you want to see that combination then of the Greek initial imprint, the older temples, and then subsequently massive, new, rectilinear Roman colony of the imperial periods. A long-standing excavation by the American school in Athens, it's worth a visit one day when you go to the Peloponnese. There's a real building revolution that takes place in the second century BC. We're going to have the first stone bridge, the first paved road, the first basilicas, and the real watershed moment is taking place after the destruction of Carthage and also Corinth, you're bringing in more than ever slaves, spoils of war. You're able to make your city more magnificent than ever you're really developing the urban center of Rome and here we have a little bit of insight into that moment looking at Largo Argentina, which has four temples that date from the third to second into the first centuries BC. And it is an extraordinary window into Republican Rome, into that moment in time when Rome is truly creating a massive empire throughout the Mediterranean. Okay, so here's a little rundown. A lot of structural innovations are created, the basilica and the porticoes are coming in to frame sacred and profane spaces, the basilicas with the law courts that start to define the area of the Roman form. We're going to have, and this is taking place in the in the 170s and 180s BC, you got the first triumphal arches documented in the 190s. We're going to get the first portico, the portico Emilia, which is basically a covered area for shipsheds and porium coverings for warehouses along the Tiber River with new port facilities. We're going to get the first stone bridge, which would have been right behind here, the round temple in the Forum Boireum. We get the first paved road, so sure there are roads beforehand, but now they're getting these huge lava stone, basil stone blocks that we kind of know and love as we walk along the Via Appia. We're going to get the first marble temple in the Circus Fominius. This round temple right here that we see is the oldest marble temple still standing, which is dedicated to Hercules and it's something to keep in mind that this would have been something new. This would have been something dynamic and it's not really huge compared to the imperial temples, but it is something that is making the grand statement and this temple gets its close to the first marble temple down the street in the Circus Fominius and today's Jewish ghetto dedicated to the temple of Jupiter Statois. Already with the conquest of Corinth and Carthage, this is the mindset bringing in, bringing in foreign, foreign stone. As good as what they have in the Greek world, we have it now in Rome and then probably the most costly structure not to ever forget is the Aquamarcha, which is just an massive enterprise, Herculean effort, big engineering, biggest, most complex aqueduct to date that the Romans build. When did they build it? By 140. Where's the money coming from? From the conquest of Corinth and Carthage. Okay, political, cultural ramifications, a lot of new money, brings a lot of new opportunities. Think about luxury goods. Brain is now being imported from new locations such as Sicily from the Second Punic War coming also. Eventually going to be buying into that market in Egypt before they conquer it. Slade trading is going to be massive. Delos is a famous island in one of the Greek islands, the Sicily Islands, where they're saying that the Romans are trading up to 10,000 slaves a day. There's all kinds of real estate speculation because the Romans don't have a lot of land. So what are you going to do with that land? Farm estates, you're going to tax contract out and tax the people and tax their land, bring revenue into Rome. So everything is just snowballing. The good times are rolling and a lot of that wealth is coming into one city, is coming into Rome. And with each victory, you have the prominence of the generals raised, their profiles, their family profiles raised, which means there's going to be more competition because there aren't that many general ships to get. So families' profiles can be enhanced, glory to the family, glory to the state. And one of the key ways in which you're going to do that is to be the general realm, win the big war and come back and celebrate with a triumph to really distinguish yourself and set yourself apart from your peers. So these are some of the ideas and concepts that come with the conquest of Carthage and Corinth underlining just how pivotal 146 BC was in the history of ancient Rome.


If you've been watching The Mandalorian on Disney Plus, I'm sure you've noticed all the classic Western themes and tropes. From Ludwig Gorenzen's Morricone-like score and the setting to The Bounty Hunter with no name, The Mandalorian is clearly a Western that just happens to take place in a galaxy far, far away. But are all those tropes about gunslingers in the Wild West actually true? And if so, why? Find out on this special short edition of Out of Frame. The Western frontier depicted in movies like Shane, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or A Fistful of Dollars is chaotic, violent, and incredibly hostile. It's definitely entertaining, but it's not particularly realistic, at least not at the beginning. In the early 1800s, Westward expansion in America was far from idyllic, but it wasn't exactly the quick and the dead, either. Back then, there were no formal governments to speak of on most of the continent. Instead, groups of individuals voluntarily formed cattlemen's associations, mining camps, trading posts, and wagon trains in order to prosper in inhospitable new territories. People kept the peace through the use of private contracts, localized constitutions, and social pressure. Now you behave yourself, or you're gonna ride into Dodge City backwards on a mule, you'll look very silly. Not with gunfights, or all-out war. I can bring you in warm, or I can bring you in cold. Even the relations between European settlers and indigenous tribes weren't nearly as contentious as they would eventually become. Just like today, it was a lot easier, less expensive, and less dangerous for everyone to deal with most other people peacefully than it was to start a fight that could get you and your family killed. But all that changed around the Civil War. In the late 1800s, the newly expanded national government started sending troops to secure the western territories and protect politically favorable business interests. For the first time in America, peacekeeping in the west was paid by federal taxes providing an essentially unlimited budget to soldiers that had little regard for native people, local customs, and trade deals, or the environment. The shift in incentives and financing meant that large-scale military solutions to frontier problems were easier to adopt and significantly less expensive or risky for individual settlers. Hardworking people finding ways to deal with their neighbors through peaceful cooperation and trade gave way to a centralized power that used severe violence against anyone who got in their way. We see the same pattern play out in the Mandalorian. If you're not caught up, I won't spoil any major plot points, but there will be some mild spoilers ahead. The Mandalorian depicts a world where the Empire sent troops all over the galaxy, raiding local star systems, controlling trade routes, and crushing resistance from indigenous populations in a world that, by all appearances, used to solve problems mostly through cooperation and commerce. Why did Mandalore resist our expansion? And that's actually one of the most realistic parts of the show, where the violence in the Mandalorian escalates the most, is where the tendrils of power in the galaxy continue to grow. If the Mandalorian wants to find peace for himself and the child, he'll have to find a new home that limits the authority of government and values individual freedom. Hey, everybody. Thanks for watching this short episode of Out of Frame. We're thinking about doing more of these each month. What do you think of the format? If you like it, let me know in the comments. And don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to all our social channels on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Thanks for watching.


How long did you stay locked up? Well, I was locked up for a little bit over two years. Two years. But I was waiting for trial, and I was about to beat trial, but I was facing 25 to life on the other end. So they gave me a plea agreement the day before trial. Yeah, we on boss talk one on one. One on one. Yeah, we gonna talk. By way of New York, comedian Rob is in the building, man, stop playing. What's going on, brother? What's happening?  You gotta, I'm gonna be honest.  You must not see, and what's his name running out? No, no, no, which one? Yeah, she look, look, look, no, no, no, no, no. I'm trying to remember his name. Your comedian? Wasn't that important. Mr. George. Mr. George. That's why George Loper has posted us, too. Mr. George, but he's Mexican. No, Mr. George is the guy that would like, Mr. George, Mr. George, this guy here, he works, he's a comedian, though. Okay. I don't know the computers and stuff like that. Let me get him and do the Mr. George one more time. Let's go. Dude, Mr. George. Mr. George. Man. Yeah, go ahead. All right. Yeah, hello, Mr. George. Yes, I hear in the radio, Mr. George. Yes. No, no, drinking. No, I don't drinking. No. No, no smoking, too. No, no smoking. I'll be good tomorrow, Mr. George. See you tomorrow in the morning, all right? Yes. Yeah, I like that. That was good stuff right there, man. But he ain't like, he's not a comedian. Oh, here we go. I don't know what he's saying. He, he, he from the internet age, he ain't even. But you might be the first Puerto Rican. Is he the first Puerto Rican? The only one, you know, so right now, I'm the only, we never had one. Shout out to you, baby. We hear him. You hear him. You know, it sounds like I'm a pilgrim. You know, like I just crossed the Mayflower. That's how the first slave fell when he got here. I'm the first nigga in America.  Well, I love your New York accent, though. What part of New York are you from? I grew up in the Bronx. In the Bronx. Yeah, but then I came. I grew up in the Bronx. I was at the first Prince of Bel-Air. We moved to the suburbs. So I came in front. Because if anybody see them like, he wasn't in the Bronx, he was in Long Island in the suburbs. How old were you? Okay, how long did you stay in the Bronx for? I was in the Bronx until I was about 11. So how, from, so you were born in- So 11, and then I was born in Manhattan. Oh, you were born in Manhattan. Yeah, so I was born in Manhattan. I was in the Bronx until about 11, and then my parents moved out. They bought their first house. Okay.  And then we moved to Long Island, which is the suburbs of New York. So how was the change for you as a kid from the Bronx to Long Island suburbs for you? You know, but when I was even in the Bronx, you know, my parents had put me in Catholic school. Okay. You were in Catholic school? Well, right up to when we moved. Prior to that, Fraser-on-Love, who I go on the road with, he lived right around the corner from in the Bronx. Really?  And you knew him and everything. No, we didn't know each other. Really?  You talking about six, seven years old. So when I said earlier, Roxanne, Shantator, hip-hop era, Eric, Ben, Rod Kim, M.C. Shane, stop playing, stop Africa and Bambala, man. So my family was, I had a cousin that was down with, at that time it was underground, underground. So rap was not out, so you talking about Spooni G. Yeah, yeah. Fumo D. Ooh. So I used to get this on. Big Marky. These underground tapes. And Bismarck wasn't even out. He went out. We talking about the 70s. Oh, this is the 70s. Oh yeah. Because you know, rap did start in New York. In the 70s and started in the Bronx. In the Bronx. So when I moved to Long Island, and I used to get these underground tapes, nobody was, you know, and the first commercial album that came out was Sugar Hill Gang. Rap is the- I met them dudes. 50s? My wife's, my wife's 50th birthday party. Wow. But they, so learning that, but then, you know, my parents were both in law enforcement. And so I grew up kind of privileged. So I can't say I had a hard call. How you grew up with both parents in the household? Yeah, and I still had a lot of issues. And how you ended up in doing stuff that you shouldn't be doing that? Yeah, there was a time, what happened was when you privileged, that's when you learned that you want to take shortcuts in life. Yeah. I was real privileged. I was in college. I got married young. How old were you? I got married at 18. And it's the same wife you have right now? No. Oh, okay. How long were you staying married for? We ended up married. I got married too young. So we figure probably about six years, up to about when I was six, seven years, until I went to jail. Yeah. At least that wasn't a year. Yeah, at least that wasn't a year. Cause some people be only married for just a year. Yeah. You know, I grew up in a household mother-father. So I believe in that. I started dating her, she had step-daughters and I felt like, you know, I wasn't going to sleep in someone's bed with their kids around and not be a father-type girl. That's real. That's a real man. So that was how I grew with that. But you know, I took those shortcuts.  You know, I had football scholarships. I was, I went to St. John's, but it was one of those things when I always had that mischievous thing about me, you know, I'm spontaneous. Some people would say the street was calling. The street was calling, they shouldn't have been calling. You know, so my ear was still to the street a little bit. So I got involved with some, involved with the mob, you know, New York, you can get involved with a lot of things. So what did your dad say? Cause you said he was law enforcement. What did he say? My dad was a cop. He was actually the first police officer in his agency in New York city. So what did he say? So what did he say? When you got locked up. Yeah. When he was in a bad position. But you know what? My dad kept it real. You know, he never asked me if I did it. He never did it. See, I was just about to ask you, did he know about what you were doing before you got out? I was out the house. I was out the house raising a family at that time. I'm gonna get out of jail cars, free did you get from him being your father? Well, you know, maybe tickets, but you know, I actually, it put me in a good position in jail. Yeah. Because even though I was also protected by the mob, you know, he, him being who he was. So when you're in jail, you know, you get a level of respect from either like, you know, a good fellas type thing, right? And then you get respect because they know your father's law enforcement. But that was, it hurt me in the beginning because they put me in protective custody. Yeah, yeah. But they did that mainly because there were people snitching against me. They wanted to seem like I was snitching. So once we, once we mutualized that, there was a way we did that. How long did you stay locked up? Well, I was locked up for a little bit over two years. Two years. But I was waiting for trial and I was about to beat trial, but I was facing 25 to life on the other end. So they gave me a plea agreement the day before trial. Wow. Because we had one, had a big, big time power, house attorney back then. And it was one of those things that I want to come home. And all my father told me, like I said, he never asked me, did you do it? What he said was, if you feel like you're guilty, you know, then you take your deal. If you feel like you're not guilty and you can do the time, then you plead not guilty. And that's how we made the decision to take the cop out. Cause I knew I wasn't not guilty, you know? Yeah, yeah. At that time I was involved with, that's when the crack game got started, heavy. So I was involved with some people and that in the 80s, it was on my car robberies going on back then. So that was the charge? Yeah, we had more over, almost a million dollars in robberies on my car. Wow, man. And you think about it, man, though. Like I said, did you ever, I mean, did y'all get away with anything? Oh, we got away with over, never got caught. That's what I'm saying. So you already had, I was a behind the scenes guy. He had already, he had a, man, sometimes we can come by here. So the robberies, I was at that time, I was 20, that was, that was 22? 22, okay.  Yeah, we on boss talk one on one, one on one. Yeah, we gon' talk.