Okay, let's get started. The Design Development Review Commission is made up of volunteers with expertise or interest in historic preservation and design. We generally meet on the second Thursday of the month to review cases. Staff to the commission are our urban design and historic preservation staff. They are available to answer questions if you have them, but please do not interrupt proceedings if you do indeed need to speak with one of them. The meeting generally proceeds with the staff calling the case and describing it. I will call for the applicant to come forward afterward to add to the basic description of the request if necessary or if the applicant wishes to do so. If so, the applicant should keep the presentation to 10 minutes or less. The commissioners will then have the opportunity to ask questions. At this point, I will ask if there is anyone in the audience who wishes to speak for or against the proposal. Audience comments should be kept to two minutes per person. If there is, the applicant will have an opportunity to respond. This rebuttal shall not exceed five minutes. In most of the cases, we will make decisions, make a decision tonight after all information has been presented. If your case is denied or if you feel that our decision was made an error, you and anyone with standing have the opportunity to appeal it within 30 days of the decision. If you plan to speak about a specific project, you must have signed in. The sheet is at the back of the room. Also, and so that members of the public understand, excuse me, commissioners are under strict instructions to avoid discussing DDRC meetings and applications with members of the public or with each other outside of these proceedings to avoid ex parte communications. If you wish to speak during the course of these proceedings, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you affirm to tell the truth in these proceedings? Do we have a quorum? Mr. Boggneit? Here. Mr. Cohn? Here. Ms. Johnson? Ms. Moore? Ms. Fuller-Wilt? Here. Mr. Saveri? Here. We have quorum. Thank you. Does the agenda still stand? We've had a few changes to the agenda since publication. Under the regular part of the agenda, the historic section 2222 Rembert Street, a request for design approval for an accessory structure in Elmwood Park Architectural Conservation District has been deferred. 1028 Bryan Street, a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey bill for a national register. Structure has been withdrawn. 1619 Pendleton, a request for a design approval for signage for an individual landmark has been deferred. Thank you. The DDRC utilizes a consent agenda for those projects which require DDRC review but which meet the guidelines and typically require no discussion. If anyone wishes to discuss an item on the consent agenda, I will ask that you speak up after the consent agenda is read and then you can pull the item for discussion onto the regular agenda. If staff would now please read the consent agenda. The first item is 2305 Lincoln Street, a request for design approval for an accessory structure in the Elmwood Park Architectural Conservation District. 1601 Gladden Street, a request for preliminary certification for the Bailey bill in the Melrose Heights Oakland Architectural Conservation District. And 2327 Santy Avenue, a request for design approval for new construction in the old Chandon Lower Waverly Protection Area A. Thank you. Is there anyone who wishes to take anything off the consent agenda for discussion? All right. Could I have a motion to approve the consent agenda and the April meeting minutes, please? I'll make the motion that we approve the consent agenda and the April meeting minutes. Is there a second? Second. Could we have a vote, please? Mr. Boknight. Yes. Mr. Cohn. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Ms. Fuller-Wilt. Yes. Ms. Moore. Mr. Savery. Yes. Motion passes. Would staff present the first case, please? Certainly. The first item on our regular agenda is 1,700 block of Calhoun Street intersection of Calhoun and Talley Street. This is a request for a certificate of design approval for modifications to the landmarked wall on the former state hospital grounds currently the Bull Street neighborhood. The wall itself is an individual landmark. Working on getting out of here, you'll have to crane your neck for just a moment. So as you know, the 180-acre Bull Street district, which houses the historic Bull Street state hospital on grounds, is being redeveloped for mixed use purposes. Given the age of the campus, we certainly have structures there that are city of Columbia landmarks, a status safe retained as part of the development. And this particular project regards the Bull Street wall. The request is to modify a portion of the existing wall along Calhoun Street, where there is a historic entrance in order to accommodate anticipated traffic entering and exiting the Bull Street district onto Calhoun Street. The request initially included the demolition of 35 feet of this wall, including both concrete columns on either side of the entry, to accommodate a new vehicular and pedestrian entry. It was first scheduled to come to the commission in March of 2019, at which time the applicants asked to have that deferred until this meeting. They revised their proposal, and so the current application includes a revised scope, some clarifying information and a brief report from a private consulting firm regarding the history of the wall and the potential impact of the proposal to the campus. So the current iteration of the application is to remove eight feet of the brick wall, leaving the right concrete column and cap in place, removing the left concrete column and cap, but removing, sorry, but rebuilding that column and cap once the expansion is taken place. They plan to reuse the salvaged historic brick for repairs to the wall, either here or in other locations, because we have a pretty extensive wall around the campus. My understanding is that, well, the PUD itself allows for three locations along Calhoun Street for access. One is along Pickens, one is shown along Henderson, and one, of course, is Barnwell, which is already a thoroughfare. My understanding is that the expansion of this Tally Street entry would take the place of the Henderson Street exit in the community. So you have a general history of the campus in your evaluation, but in brief, since 1828, with the construction of the Mills building, walls on the campus have been built and reconfigured over the course of time due to the expansion of the campus. They always enclosed at least parts of the campus and provided a barrier between patients and the public. By 1898, there was roughly the configuration, very roughly the configuration of the wall along Calhoun Street, which we see today, which doesn't actually include the lowering of the wall as we look towards Bull Street in the 1960s. The entry in question appeared to be a service driveway and perhaps pedestrian access behind the Babcock building toward the rear of the campus. And this, of course, as you can see, is the area in which the partial demolition is requested. Staff has considered this proposal very carefully. The original proposal would have completely altered the character of the opening, making it far too grand and a long cry from the modest opening, which historically has been there, and which also would have resulted in a quite large removal of historic material. However, a request for a removal of eight feet of brick wall with a commitment to rebuild a similar concrete column and cap on the left, along with the conditions that have been noted by staff is a request which might be considered. There have been some interesting changes to the historic wall over time, including among others, the notated height changes from 10 feet to eight feet on the sandborne maps, and the entry itself most likely had the concrete columns and caps added in the 1920s or 30s. As this is not a material we would have seen back in the 1890s at this location. In working with historic structures, there are times when sensitive and minor accommodations to historic features may be and are made so that existing features might function practically, but still be well understood and maintain their character, which is reflected in staff's recommendations. That being said, and we do make those accommodations when we're working with historic buildings, but I did want to note that further intrusions as we move east along this wall where there have never been any historic openings, would I feel impact the integrity of this historic wall? So staff is recommending a conditional approval with the following conditions. Given that more traffic will be increasing at this opening with the proposed modification, and given the number of recent vehicular accidents, which I may not know about, that I do as staff, which have impacted historic features on the campus and the wall itself, staff recommends that bollards be placed on all sides of the opening to protect the wall. That the removal of the brick and the column will follow specifications provided by staff, but which will include supports for the wall during the deconstruction and chiseling the original brick and our concrete from the wall and a mortar analysis. That we retain and reuse the original brick for later repairs and or reuse, including the damaged wall at Bull Street as proposed on the original application. That the applicants work with staff with the reattachment of the stored gates that used to be at this location, in which it long since been removed, but have been stored. So these could be reattached in a non-functioning manner at the opening to indicate how the opening used to appear. That staff work with the applicants on the replication of the concrete column and its details, any indications of that we might want to make of where the original opening fell. And last, but not least, that if there is any failure of the historic wall as a result of the proposed work, the historic wall will be repaired or restored immediately. And then one last note for everyone. Please note that DDRC review is step one of this request. Step two is review by the City of Columbia's Consolidated Review Committee comprised of city staff, including planning staff, those from traffic engineering, among others, which will look at the request and evaluate it based on their criteria, one of which will certainly encompass traffic flow. These are internal meetings. If folks want more information about these, then they can come to me or they can contact Jonathan Chambers. But this is where information about traffic, traffic flow, et cetera, is going to be considered. It does not fall within the scope of the DDRC. Thank you. And before I ask the applicant to present and then subsequently ask anyone else in the audience who would like to comment, I want to reiterate Amy's point, which is that anything associated with traffic flow is outside of the purview of the DDRC. This, our purview is strictly about the determination of the integrity of the historic wall. And within that, whether in our collective judgment, what is being proposed falls within the guidelines, which in this case is the Department of Interior national register standards. So our purview is very narrow. And I would ask everybody to, on the commission as well, to be cognizant of that as we present and discuss this issue. So with that, would the applicant like to present? And you've been sworn in. Thank you. Could you state your name, please, for the microphone? My name's Layton Lord. I'm with Nexon Pruitt and I represent the developer Hughes Development. And I'm going to try to be very brief. But what I wanted you all to know is we have people here available. If you want to delve more deeply, Chandler Cox is the project manager for Bull Street Hughes Development. We have Ralph Bailey with Brockington, who's our historic expert. And we also have Jonathan Guy, who's with Kimberly Horne, who's our traffic expert. We understand traffic is not what you guys delve into, but traffic is very important to what we're trying to do and with Calhoun Street. We're before you right now, mainly because when the Bull Street campus was originally built over the years, it wasn't built to integrate with the city of Columbia. It had a wall around it. At one point a very high wall and then later a smaller wall, which Amy and Ralph can tell you in greater detail in the history of that, but it's got walls around it. So it doesn't integrate well with the city. Part of the challenge is to figure out how to have points where you can enter and exit Bull Street that allow it to integrate with the city and also calm traffic. So you don't have traffic coming in too fast or too slow. Calhoun, as you all can see from this great visual, we have a couple of ability to put a couple of entrances. So the wall has to be modified in some way, shape or form to have entrants and exits along Calhoun Street. The original plan that we looked at was to actually enter it kind of right where you're looking, which would have been a total breach of the wall if you mark it up with Halley Street. The developer decided to try to utilize an existing entrance for two reasons. One, it's an existing entrance and two, it would calm traffic by not having a city road going directly into Bull Street. And we thought with the traffic issues going on and Jonathan can talk more to that if you want to hear it. It was a better traffic solution, but more importantly into your purview, it's a better historic solution. Came up with a plan. We put it before the city. Amy really didn't like it very much and we went back to the drawing board. We hired Rockington to help us with the historic issues and we came up with a design that got rid of the pedestrian entrance and basically took the existing entrance and widened it a little bit to one side. And it's not my area, but when I looked at it, I didn't think they had done anything to it in first blush compared to the old one. It's a wider version of what you see right here. And we believe it's the best solution for the two issues before the developer. Traffic and historic preservation and respect. And with that, I won't say anymore. We appreciate what staff has done. We appreciate working with staff. We're glad we got to a point where staff could recommend. That's why we took it off the agenda and took it back to the drawing board and hired people to help us do it. We accept all the conditions that staff has proposed on this exception. We've gone through them in detail and every one of them are fine. We'll work with staff to implement them however they want, but we've found them all very reasonable. And that's all. You all want to hear from any of our folks? Not unless they want to speak, if they have anything that is cogent in addition to what you've said, unless somebody else wants that. Before Mr. Lord takes a seat, are there any questions that any commissioners have for him? Thanks. Thank you. All right. Is there anyone here? Let's start with opposition. In opposition, who would like to speak? You promise to tell the truth in these proceedings? Yes. Is that your name, please? Robin Waits, I'm here on behalf of Historic Columbia. The request to modify the City of Columbia Group 1 Landmark does not meet the criteria outlined in the city ordinance, Section 17674B. Under 1A, for individual landmarks, the historic character of a property shall be retained and preserved. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize the property shall be avoided. That's from the criteria. This proposal removes eight feet of historic brick, destroys an existing historic column, and alters the historic character of the entry, which, according to the applicant's assessment, is at least 100 years old. Section E, distinctive features, finishes, and construction techniques are examples of craftsmanship. That characterizes a property shall be preserved. Again, that's from the criteria. Clearly demolishing features of the wall is out of compliance with that criteria. Staff notes that while there is not a way to retain the concrete column to the left, the new proposal does retain the one to the right and suggests replicating the one, which would have to be removed. I would offer that there is a way to retain the concrete column to the left, and that is to deny the proposal. H, new additions, alterations, or related constructions shall not destroy historic materials. Clearly, this proposal will destroy historic materials. Even if the applicant plans to reuse the brick, there's not a way to ensure that in the demolition of the wall that the brick will be able to be salvaged. I, new additions or adjacent to related new construction shall be undertaken in a matter that, dot, dot, dot, retains the historic integrity. The removal of the wall is in fact not reversible. Ultimately, the bottom line here is that the proposal negatively impacts the city of Columbia, group one landmark, which is your highest designation. And it's one of the few remaining character defining features of the Bull Street campus. This city landmark structure is also one of only two features on the entire 180 acre site that the DDRC has per view over. So while we agree with the observation made in the staff evaluation that this certainly is a better solution to the first one that was submitted, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right one. The best solution is to leave the historic elements of the group one city landmark intact. Historic Columbia respectfully submits that as opposition to the request. Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak in opposition to the application? Have you been sworn in? I was sworn in. State your name, please. Elizabeth Marks. I own property at 1908 Henderson Street. I think you already have a letter that I signed from the Robert Mills Historic District in opposition to this. First, you know, I would like to say thank you to the city staff. They've been really easy to work with. And also to the Hughes company who has offered to make some potentially helpful restoration and preservation attempts at the wall. It needs a lot of work. I wish I could say that I was in support of what they want to do. The neighborhood is not in support of what they want to do. As a property owner at 1908 Henderson Street, we get to see what happens at the corner of Henderson and Calhoun. And while we can't talk to you about traffic, I want to bring to your attention the fact that this is an offset entrance. It's in the middle of a block. There is an excellent, brand new entrance, 100 feet to the east of this at Barnwell and Calhoun. I think there are two themes that we're hearing here. The first theme is that the wall has already been compromised by bad judgment in the past. So let's go ahead and chip off some more of it. That's a really bad argument. That means that the preservation of the undamaged and significant portions of the remaining wall are just not a priority. So let's go ahead and do more damage to it. The second theme is that this requested entrance is absolutely necessary to the development of Bull Street. If so, why was it not included in their own traffic study the street does not even appear in their traffic study of March 2016? I've gone over it over and over again. There's just absolutely no mention of Tally Street. We believe that this was a recent misguided decision to open this wall. Furthermore, it doesn't show up on any of the maps that Tally Street doesn't, that they provided to the neighborhood and to people at public hearings and meetings for at least the past two years. I think I got this one in 2017. So we think that this wall was an afterthought, that it wasn't planned, it wasn't studied. We believe this is an absolutely unnecessary elimination of an historic gate at the expense of our history, our history, and that it should go back to being what it was initially introduced as, which was a bike and pedestrian entrance as was the other beautiful gate on Pickens at Calhoun. So my question is, why are we negotiating a bad concept? I mean, we're negotiating a bad concept, which is to destroy this historic entrance and its context for what? It's an offset entrance. It doesn't connect to anything. Thank you very much. Thank you. So I'll ask for any other, anybody who would like to speak in opposition, then I'll ask for the applicant to, if you'd like to make a rebuttal after that, is there anyone else who wants to speak in opposition? Is there one person who's going to speak? Have you all been sworn in? Raise your right hand, please, and promise to tell the truth. So whoever is speaking, if you could state your name. My name's Olivia Dozier, and these are my siblings Evans and Sophia Dozier, and my mother Victoria Dozier. My family owns three lots on the corner of Henderson and Calhoun and one additional lot on Calhoun Street. My father and his family has owned these properties for over a hundred years, and our family knows more about the history of the historic wall and the Taley Street gate than anyone alive today. When my children were growing up, the raw iron gates at Taley and Calhoun streets were closed. When my husband's mother was growing up, that gate was closed. When her mother was growing up, that gate was closed. Through all those generations, the gate was closed. As a child, my husband saw only a very tall wall, not the scaled-down version here today. From his bedroom window, he could see children playing inside the gates, both white and African-American. It was a familiar day-to-day activity of the real mental hospital. Thank goodness the Calhoun side of that wall still includes two important historical gates from that time. But one of those gates is now in danger because of a questionable 21st century planning. What is happening? For years, we were told by the developers that the Pickin Street gate and the Taley Street gate would be bike and pedestrian entrances. When this change, or when the PUD or the development plan was amended, no one in the neighborhood was notified by the developer or the city, or even had the opportunity to discuss it. If you approve this request, it means the loss of an important irreplaceable historical architectural feature and the further diminishment of the history of our city. This is coming from our hearts, from the only family here speaking with 100 years of knowledge. Thank you for your time, consideration for leaving this historical landmark intact. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in opposition to the application? The applicant? Oh, looks like we have. Have you been sworn in? Have you been sworn in? No. You promise to tell the truth in these proceedings? I do. And if you'd state your name, please. My name is Wanda Breedlove. My property is in the Robert Mills Historic District, which adjoins the Bull Street property. My residence is at the corner of Laurel Street and Marion Streets. I want to add my voice to that of the others who have spoken against this change for all of the reasons that they have said I am in support. Something that I noticed in the pictures, it appeared to me there was a large tree less than eight feet in some of the pictures. What's going to happen to that large tree? I recognize that's not a DDRC issue, but that had not been. I couldn't tell you the developers would have thought that. Because it's a significant large tree and I think you can see it in this particular photo. Aside from the historic nature of the other issues involved. Thank you. Is there anybody else who'd like to speak in opposition? Would the applicant like to make a rebuttal? First off, I won't refute Provins' reading of the law, but I'll mention that there would be no need for this body to meet if the law could not be interpreted. And that's what we're asking this body to do. That's what our application is about, is to try to evaluate when you do make a modification, not a destruction of an historic landmark. Regarding the gate, I can tell you that when Hughes Development took over this project, Department of Mental Health had taken the gate off of this wall and they had laid it down. Hughes Development is preserving the gate and if this is approved they'll reattach the gate but leave the gate open so it can be visible but it's not going to be operated. We're not going to open and shut this entrance, of course, but the gate is going to be preserved, reattached, and left open. That's all we have. If you'd like to speak with any of our people, we're happy to. Thanks. At this time I'd like to ask if there is anybody supporting the application who would like to speak and then any discussion on the part of the commissioners or questions? Just so I understand you, I think you said in the beginning, there are two things that we probably want to take into account. One is that there was another design that was withdrawn that was more, I think, more destructive, right? And the other is, I believe you said that the PUD allows for three entrances along Calhoun Street. That's right. So this will... The PUD that I've seen allows for those along those intersections. Henderson-Pickinson corner. Okay. Specifically at those locations. That is the extent of my knowledge about the discussion about those entrances. Okay. We have a picture of what the gate's going to look like. There it is now. A picture of what it's going to look like when it's done. That's what it's going to look like when it's done. That's the model. One more question for the applicant, I guess. And your proposal is to remove the concrete on the one side, but then your proposal is not to protect it and put that particular concrete post back in place. Excuse me. It's to replicate it with new construction? I believe you're correct, but I want to be sure. I've not been sworn in, but I do promise to tell the truth. My name is Chandler Cox. I'm the project manager for Bull Street. And our intention would be to save as much of this as we can if we can remove it in a way that will allow us to work with city staff and move that column. We will do so if we have to rebuild. We will do so with city staff's interpretation to make sure that it is historically accurate and is matching the one that's on the right side. Okay. But is your proposal to protect and relocate the existing column or end piece? Yes. That's your proposal? That'd be the proposal. Okay. Concrete? Concrete. I don't think we're going to answer that. Okay. Thank you. Any other comments or questions from the commission? All right. Then could I have a motion? I'll make the motion for seven, the 1700 block of Calhoun Street at the intersection of Calhoun and Talley streets that we approve the applicants request for design approval modifications to the wall in accordance with staff's recommendations that it is in keeping with section 117 or section 17-674-D of the city of Columbia zoning ordinance and that it is done with the following conditions. Given that traffic will be increasing at this opening with the proposed modification and given the number of recent vehicular accidents which have impacted historic features on the campus, the wall itself and the wall itself staff recommends that bollers be placed on all sides of the opening to protect the wall. And I would add that the bollers, the design and finish be subject to staff's approval. That the removal of the brick and the column will follow specifications as provided by staff and with all efforts to ensure the integrity of maintaining the column. This concrete but will include supports for the wall during deconstruction, hand chiseling, and the original brick or concrete from the wall or and or and a mortar analysis that we retain and reuse the original brick for later repairs and or reuse including the damage wall at Bull Street as proposed on the original application where sections are missing and or covered with plywood. That the applicant work with staff with the reattachment of the stored gates in a non-functioning manner at the opening. The staff work with the applicants on the replication of the concrete column and its details if it's unable to be retained. And that if there is any failure of the historic wall as a result of the proposed work, the historic wall will be repaired and restored immediately. Is there a second? Second. Well, any further discussion before we have a vote? We have a vote please. Mr. Boffnight. No. Mr. Cohn. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Ms. Fuller-Wilt. No. Ms. Moore. Mr. Saver. No. The motion. Okay. I need another motion. Based on the evidence presented and section 17-674D of the City of Columbia Zoning Ordinance. I don't mention the Bull Street Guidelines there, do I? It's only the ordinance. Correct? Okay. I move that the Design Development Review Commission deny a certificate of design approval for the 1,700 block of Calhoun Street intersection of Calhoun and Talley Street's proposed project proposed at the location that I just listed in the Bull Street neighborhood. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Mr. Boffnight. Yes. Mr. Cohn. No. Ms. Johnson. Yes. Ms. Moore. Mr. Saver. Yes. The motion passes. Thank you. Are there any questions? Next case please. The next case is also on the Bull Street campus. It is the 2,100 block of Bull Street intersection of Calhoun Street and Elmwood Avenue. The applicant is Raven Gambrale, manager for Richland County Penny program who has been working her way through this process. The request is for a certificate of design approval for relocation of pedestrian entry gates of the landmarked wall found at the entry to the former state hospital grounds currently the Bull Street neighborhood. This is an individual landmark again. So y'all know the history here. I'm going to reiterate it. The pedestrian gates that we can see there, we think were probably the wrought iron pieces may have well been from the earliest wall we find in front of the Mills building. And I can't remember exactly when the first picture of it was. There was a picture in your packets but in the 1800s. So we think there's a good possibility given the age of this wrought iron and their appearance and based on descriptions of those that they may have been part of that original wall. So I think they've been moved around over the years and they currently reside across the front columns on either side of the entry to the Bull Street campus in the circles there that you see. So there's some realignment work of lanes going on here to accommodate increased traffic coming into the campus. And so these are actually going to be in the way. And rather than we'll move these all together, store them never to be seen again, Ms. Gambrell has worked to ensure that we can just simply actually move these back and in this picture on the right side, the right picture, you can see the column behind the column that the wrought iron is attached to. That's actually where those are going to move to. They're just moving back to allow some space for this lane enlargement that's happening. So they're going to move back in concert so they'll continue to sort of read as pedestrian entry gates into the campus. So staff has to make some criteria, specification sheets about how this is going to be done without damaging the wrought iron. The brick underneath the wrought iron is probably not historic. I think it's probably newer that those have been moved there later. So I think we can probably just reconstruct the bottom pieces and then move these back and move those as soon as we do. So I've been consulting with some specialists about this and how to do it so we don't lose the story material. So staff is recommending approval for this. And Ms. Gambrell is here if you have any questions about the proposal. Thank you. The applicant wish to speak? Is there an applicant? Were you sworn in? Tell the truth. I do. And state your name please. My name is Raven Gambrell and I work for HDR. We're a consultant that hired to help manage the Richland County Transportation Program. And this is one of the projects within the program. And I'm sure you're all very familiar with the Bull Street and Elmwood Avenue intersection. And so the point of the project is just to improve the traffic flow and the safety accommodations in the intersection. And it's part of those improvements in the lane reconfiguration. It is causing some shift at the Bull Street entrance, which is impacting the railing sections. The design team has worked hard to make sure that the brick wall section as you approach the railing sections is not impacted. It is just the railing sections. And the proposal as Amy mentioned was to just shift them back about 15 feet. And I neglected to mention that they will actually reattach to the columns. I think I neglected to mention that. Any questions for the applicant before we move on? Thanks. Thank you. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition to the application? Anyone who wishes to speak in support? Any comments or discussion from the commissioners? Good. I have a motion. So I move that we grant a certificate of design approval for relocation of the pedestrian entry gates located at the 2100 block of Bull Street, the intersection of Bull Street and Elmwood. And that's in accordance with section 1760, section 17-674 of the Columbia City Code. And that would be subject to specifications provided by staff. We have a second. Second. Any discussion? Do we have a vote, please? Mr. Bocknight? No. Mr. Cohn? Yes. Ms. Johnson? Yes. Ms. Fuller-Wilt? Yes. Ms. Moore? Yes. Mr. Savry? Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. I think that concludes our cases. And I understand that there is something to discuss in executive sessions. So if I could have a motion. Pardon me. Our lawyer is not here. So without him. Oh, well. In that case, any other business? Nothing? You know, I just did want to mention since we're running away, I had it of where I thought we might. This is preservation. And our staff has worked really hard to provide some events and fun activities which are listed on the website. If you want to take part in any of those or at least to be aware of them, they're always about outreach engagement. And hopefully fine because so much what we do is regulatory and not fun for a lot of folks. And as part of that, we always do a Mabel Payne Award. Mabel was an urban pioneer with the city. And she was sort of the foundation of all the beginning preservation lists that we have, that we work from for our landmark lists. So we instituted something some years ago called the Mabel Payne Award. And it just, I just wanted y'all to know that this year we awarded it to Bob Dile and Joe Wieter in the Brandy Mill Village neighborhood. It had been there for over 40 years. And from the beginning have been fighting to keep that neighborhood intact. And people are engaged in architecture there to tell that very important story.  It has not been on again off again. But they are the kind of people who are often not recognized for their garbage. And so those are the sorts of folks we want to honor. So I just wanted to let y'all know that. I will be on our website. Next year, we will make sure that y'all are all invited to City Council meeting on those types. Well deserved award. That's nice to hear. Can we call recess for just a moment? Sure. I guess we're in recess. Is it easy for you to go to motion maker? Yeah. Well, because I just want you to know. So now, I think it's good. I think it's perfect the first time. Did I have a motion to go into executive session, please? Make the motion that we go into executive session. Seconded. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Not yet. Could we have a motion to come out of executive session, please? But we have a motion to come out of executive session. I'll make the motion that we come out of executive session. And a second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion to adjourn. I'll make the motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Aye. The adjourned. Thank you.


The theoretical part of the week is over, kids. So this is the session on how to build a wardrobe inexpensively, and I want quick caveat before I get into some bigger caveats, is that this presentation is aimed at the guys in the audience. I'm not equipped nor qualified to discuss women's professional dress. However, almost all of the principles and axioms will discuss during these next 30 minutes or so are equally applicable to the ladies. So, but as is my want, you have to indulge me for just one moment. I couldn't resist.  So, I'd like to start with just a few caveats. The idea that there are rules of dress or even comportment is somewhat in question in the modern world, and I suppose that's okay. So, there's an entire line of thought that goes something like this. Clothes shouldn't matter. I should wear whatever I want and nobody else should judge me or have anything to say or think about it. Clothes should be functional. They should be comfortable above all. They should be utilitarian.  Whereas if you're a master of the universe like Mark Zuckerberg, you just wear your hoodie and your sweats to the meeting with the venture capitalists who are going to give you billions of dollars and if you have to dress up, it almost shows that there's less substance to you and so this is an old fashioned thing where we're trying to be superficial or something like that. So there's an entire line of thought that goes that way and that's absolutely fine. It's not one I share but the point is that this presentation assumes that that is not your line of thought and if somebody wants to wear a sweats on an airplane, so be it. So the idea here is that we're talking about some set of rules. We're accepting or even desiring some sets of rules in our manner of dress. So no rules would be the idea that you just wear whatever you want and how daring but even suggest otherwise. Now some rules I think is the category that we'll find ourselves in today which means that we're interested in how to dress but we also realize that the rules are there to be broken in many ways and that they're often changing. So there's lots of famous rules that are way before my day like that at least in the United States originated out of the Northeast as you might expect. The Northeast was a Yankee Dome and that was really where a lot of the modern dress got it start the American look and so the idea that you don't wear white before Memorial Day.  That's something that came out of the climate of Rhode Island and places like that in New England. So that rule is that's a rule but it's not really a rule that you would follow down here in the hot humid South, right? So there's some rules but there's some rules that are meant to be broken. There used to be a very famous rule. London is obviously a big center for men's dress. We think of England as a masculine country. We think of France and Paris as a feminine country in many ways. So a lot of men's dress came out of London fashion and so there used to be a famous saying in London no brown in town which meant brown and brogues and tweeds were out in your country because you're rich, you have a place in town and you have a place in the country. You wear that in the country but in town you wear gray or black or more formically. I mean that sort of thing is so completely outdated today that we can barely even call it a rule. It's broken so much. So we look at these rules and we say first of all they're highly subjective, right? Everything we talk about is highly subjective and they're temporal, right? All these, you are not gonna, most of us are probably not gonna wear spats or a top hat anytime soon, right? So we're all slaves to our times into fashion so in that sense we're no different than maybe the person who's wearing sweats on the airplane is actually more advanced than us in that sense, right? They're just, we're sort of top hats and spats and they've moved on. And of course they're geographic. I mean what you wear and it's appropriateness it depends very much on the geography and the location and the climate especially. You know if you go to Bermuda is not quite tropical but it's not even semi-tropical but if you go to Bermuda it is entirely okay to wear shorts to a business meeting. The Bermuda shorts that came out of the hot humid climate in Bermuda. If you go to a tropical zone in the equator versus if you go to Sweden or someplace cold I mean obviously the manner of dress even down here in Auburn in the summer people wear lighter fabrics and everything just because of the climate. So we have to understand that all these things are very subjective and subject to change. They're not ironclad and you shouldn't feel bad or feel constrained by any of this. It should be enjoyable and it should bring you pleasure and improve your life. And of course my own biases are prevalent here. I probably come from more of the Anglo-American Brooks Brothers look than more of a continental Italian Armani look or whatever you know however you might think of that but I'm showing sort of my 90s age here my bias. So take all this with a grain of salt this is just a fun presentation. So the question is what are we trying to do today? Well thinking about young people in particular I'd like to help you avoid some of the mistakes maybe I made along the way both money wise and fashion wise I guess would be the phrase. And I really think that it's important to start out young building a serviceable wardrobe for your future careers. And I believe that if you're diligent and if you're willing to work a young male could do this for well under $2,000. And that doesn't mean that you have to do that all $2,000 at once you could do this slowly over time using some of the strategies and techniques we'll talk about. But I don't think you need to go out spend $10,000 or something like that to be well dressed. And as a young person well dressed just means the minimum it just means the basics.  And believe me I've made plenty of mistakes but if I could go back to your age maybe some of this would be useful for me. So I don't think the $2,000 is unrealistic in any way shape or form. And here's a little secret is that especially with COVID men's dress is really the market for it has bottomed out heavily. So there's a lot of clothing out there cheap right now even with inflation because demand has fallen so much. And the demand has fallen for a lot of reasons even before COVID there were very few places of employment that still required a jacket and tie for men. I mean most law firms have gone to business casual unless maybe you're in court most accounting firms most investment banking firms even it's just business casuals, polo shirts that kind of things. There's probably only a few dozen restaurants and private clubs left in America where a jacket and tie is still required to dine in the evenings there are some. So a lot of this stuff is kind of going the way of the Dodo bird and that has with intensified with COVID and work from home. And as a result there's more sales there's more stuff on eBay. There's just a lot of retail clothing manufacturers out there and apparel manufacturers who are kind of in trouble I think with their inventories and that helps you. And of course if you start thinking about it now creating a foundation now you're gonna have a lifetime of dressing well at relatively low cost. And with social media the way it is what you want to avoid is looking back on pictures of yourself in 20 or 30 years and saying oh my God what was I doing? You know like when we look at the 70s people have these giant collars and these really wide ties and lime green leisure suits and that you know everything oh man that looks terrible but when you look back in the 30s, 40s, 50s I don't know how they look great. So that's what we want to avoid. We want to avoid the lime green leisure suit in every facet of life metaphorically. And then of course one of the benefits of this is not just feeling good is that you can improve your career in romantic prospects. Look there's a famous Seinfeld some of you are too young but men are like jeeps, right? I mean men are pretty functional, pretty utilitarian. You know most men are pretty fungible. And most men are not, you're not a Calvin Klein model. Who cares? Just have it reasonably together and your romantic prospects are hugely improved. Okay, this is Mises University. So what are the rules? These are Jeff's rules not the rules but they're the rules, okay? So these again apply I think as much to females in my opinion. So the number one rule is fit. Fit, fit, fit, fit, fit. It doesn't matter if you have the most beautiful $3,000 canali suit from Italy. If it's ill fitting, you're dead in the water.  It's just an inescapable fact. Now that doesn't mean fit is everything in dressing well but it's the first thing. And if you don't have that you have nothing in it. So if you really like something and you put it on and it's just not right and you think it should look good on you or you really like it or you want to have this kind of style or somebody else looked really cool in it, it doesn't matter. You have to have the discipline to say, it just doesn't fit me. And that's it and you have to move on. So that's the number one thing. Now the flip side to fit for men, for business professional clothes is tailoring. You have to accept the fact that you may not be able to just buy a garment off the rack and have it fit perfectly. You have to go get it altered. Okay, that's just part of the deal here. And alterations in tailoring are your friend. I mean people used to understand this is the whole point of a tailor is to make the good things look better and the bad things look not so bad, right? So if you go back and look at a movie with Jackie Gleason in it, big, heavy set guy and kind of portly in the waist and not so broad shoulder and all that. But his tailors would do everything they could to make Jackie Gleason look more like a TV star and they succeeded. So this is the point of this. And I'm afraid so much of our culture and society is now is just like almost offended by this idea. Almost offended by the idea that you should try to look good for other people. And I don't know what to say to that. So we start with fit. The number two rule this is absolutely bulletproof is spend twice as much by half as much. And once you get to a certain level spend three times as much by a third as much spend 20 times as much by whatever it is. I mean the best stuff you can get whether that's new use thrifted eBay, whatever it is quality, quality, quality, quality it's so much better to have a few quality items than a whole closet full of garbage from Walmart for the same amount of money. And if you look at folks in Europe who generally Ryan McMacon has written on this quite a bit disposable income is actually considerably less in Europe than in the United States or at least it has been up until recently. I mean this is and if you look at folks in Europe in general, they have smaller houses and apartments. The closets are usually smaller and they just don't have all these clothes but they tend to have higher quality garments and they look better in them. So this is really a golden rule. If you're better off having two really good suits for example than five or 10 crappy Macy suits it's just a fact. And that applies top to bottom in everything in your wardrobe. So this is a fundamental rule. Get the best stuff you can and just get less than you think. And especially with work from home with COVID with business casual the opportunities and the requirements for you to have professional clothing it may be a lot less frequent. You know if it's 1955 and you work at Arthur Anderson accounting you're wearing a suit every day literally. You got to have a bunch of suits but you guys may only need a full on suit once in a while for an interview or something like that. So that means that you need fewer of them which means that you might be able to spend a little more on the quality end. Okay, so that's a key. This is something that people forget. You got to focus on the cost per wear and we tend to not do this. I mean we probably all have this. I have some gift items in my wardrobe that probably cost a hundred bucks that someone bought me and I might have worn it twice and that's terrible because if you look at that item, would I have rented that item to wear for $50? I mean this tie is so beautiful or cool or I'm gonna rent it for 50 bucks and then I'll do that twice and so it's a hundred dollars and then of course I wouldn't. That's a terrible deal, right? So but I have t-shirts from the gap that were probably on sale for five bucks that I've worn 200 times or something and that's from a cost per wear perspective. That was a tremendously smart purchase. So when you start thinking in terms of cost per wear, you get into like, hey, how does this fit with other things that I have and am I really gonna wear it a lot?  And that's harder for the ladies because the fashion's changed more but I think the principle holds. So focus on cost per wear. If you're gonna buy something expensive and by expensive I mean within your own context, make sure that item is key and central and goes with other things and you're gonna wear it a lot because then you're gonna feel a lot better about it. It's like your car, you use your car every day pretty much, you know? So focus on cost per wear. Next thing is simplicity. If you read about Kerry Grant, he talked about this endlessly.  I mean, simplicity is always the key to any elegant person. Things just work.  They're just totally uncomfortable. They never worn a suit before. It's brand new, it doesn't fit and they're walking down that aisle, you know, to get their diploma and whereas if you look at pictures of Kerry Grant, I mean, it's just like whatever the X factor is, it's just like, you know, he just had it. It's just everything he wore was very, very simple. A gray flannel suit, you know?   I mean, so think about simplicity because that's going to always serve you well. And also, again, back to that cost, analysis is you got to figure out your own skin tone and body type. And so if your body type's changing a lot, that's going to cost you money. If you're gaining and losing weight, you know, you guys in your early 20s, that's almost an inescapable thing.  I mean, it's just, it happens to all men. It's pretty much inescapable and it might not even relate that much to the number on the scale.  So there's nothing much you can do about that.   So try to, try to figure that, but also skin tone.  And that goes to a lot of things, you know, but you're gonna just, you're gonna find that certain colors work better for you. It's just, it's just the way it is. And you might not like it. You might, you know, wish that you could, that a certain color look good on you, but you just have to accept it and be rigorous. Just like with fit, you just have to have the discipline and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Say no, it's a lot more important to say no than yes.  There's work involved, especially if you're trying to buy clothes cheap. You know, if you're some rich guy, you can go out and hire a consultant and a tailor and just say, go buy me all this stuff and find out what looks good on me, but most people can't do that, right? I mean, so most of us, you have to go buy it. And if you wanna do it on the cheap, you're gonna have to do a lot more work. You're gonna have to own a shoe shine kit.  That's better than making your bed. You have to shine your shoes. You're gonna have to own an iron.  You're gonna have to do a little bit of research here and there.  So there's some work. You can't just buy, go out and just buy things and easily and magically, it doesn't work that way. And again, what we're discussing today is baseline stuff. We're talking about off-the-rack clothing, which you might get altered to fit you a little better. We're not talking about higher levels. What rich people do, which are made to measure is the next level and then full bespoke is the next level like Prince Charles, right? Prince Charles, if you say what's your shirt size to Prince Charles, he doesn't have a shirt size. He has a tailor who measures him and builds a shirt for him, right? And if any of you come from monarchical families, but short of that. So we're just talking about off-the-rack clothing here and doing the best we can. And if you do the best you can, you're gonna be ahead. You're gonna be ahead of the game. Very easy in today's age to look better than your competition. Very, very easy, never an easier, I might say.  So here's the hierarchy. When it comes to those precious dollars that you've got to spend, when it comes to your quality mindset, when it comes on the big questions of where to spend a little more and where you can skimp, where you can go new, where you can go used, this is the hierarchy.   But the great thing about being a guy is that certain shoe styles can wear them 20, 30 years.  I mean, style-wise. So shoes are the absolute top priority in terms of your expenditure. There are lots of ways to get shoes inexpensively, but you should never get inexpensive shoes, ever, ever, ever.  The full retail price for bare minimum we'll get to shoes today is about 400 bucks. And if you want a better English shoe, that's getting more than 700, 800 bucks. But there are lots of ways to not spend that and we'll get to that. So that I'm just talking about sort of the baseline mentality you have to have. And then the rest of the hierarchy goes from out to in. So in terms of where you should splurge and where you should skimp, it depends, you know, the more outside of your body the garment is, the more you should spend. And as you get in closer, you know, the less you can spend.  Get a T-shirt from, get an eight-pack at Walmart, right, just, you know, who cares? But so outerwear, you know, you never, depending on what kind of climate you live in, in Auburn we barely have outerwear. But if you live in the Northeast or if you live in European climates, Northern European climates, something like that, you're gonna have to wear some kind of outerwear on top of a suit or a sport coat.  And then, moving down the hierarchy, suits and sport coats, there's a little more leeway here. There's no leeway in shoes, but there's a little more leeway here. And then you get into furnishings where you're talking about basically suits and, excuse me, shirts and ties. Here you can find cheaper stuff that's serviceable.   So this is sort of how you're thinking ought to be done, hierarchical. So this is, the next slide is the slide of destiny for all of you. And I plan to go into the next world, well-shod on my feet. Just in case I have to, you know, walk through a lot of purgatory or something. So when I'm walking through purgatory, it's gonna be on good year welted shoes, damn it. So this is the deal breaker, okay? A good year welt. What is a good year welt? Well, you have the bottom of the shoe, okay? You have the sole of the shoe, then you have the top of the shoe, the leather portion, and my leather, I mean leather. We all know, not plastic, right? Okay, so this thing here that goes around it was a process started by the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company and that thing that goes around, that strip is the Goodyear welt. So that means that the top of the shoe is not stitched, or even worse, glued, stitched to the bottom of the shoe directly, there's a welt in between them, connecting them. So what this welt means, this piece of hard fabric means is that you can resole these shoes over and over and over again. There are old guys who have a pair of shoes for 40, 50 years and now the sole's worn out and they've changed the sole many times, but the uppers are still okay, especially if they're polishing them, taking care of them. So a good year welt is the be all end all, okay? And there are plenty of shoes that have a good year welt that aren't all that expensive. But the problem is you have to do the work to find out if the particular shoe you're buying has it or not because you can't count on the sales person if they even exist. I mean, the information out there is very slip shot. So you might have to do a little bit of work. So you have to buy shoes that are gonna last and that are resoleable, which is another way of saying they're Goodyear welted. This is absolutely critical. So the distinction, so I don't have a good picture, I was gonna bring some in, but the basic distinction is an Oxford shoe, sometimes people call it a Balmoral, is a more formal shoe, that's where the laces are really close together. And the front of the shoe, which is called the vamp, the front of the shoe is the two sides come together in a more, I guess, closed way. So we can call it closed lacing or open lacing. This shoe is what we would call a derby or a blucher because the two sides come together, this is the vamp of the shoe, the two sides come together over top of it. Okay, so an Oxford is a little more formal generally, so it's a little better with a suit. This kind of shoe, a derby or a blucher is a little less formal. Still okay with a suit, it's fine, but it's great with a sport coat, it's a little less formal. So, and then of course you have slip-on loafers, which are sort of a third category, but you need an Oxford shoe, you need a black Oxford shoe in your wardrobe. You need a brown blucher shoe in your wardrobe. I don't know if you need a loafer in your wardrobe or not, but these two are pretty much must haves. Now, the more stuff that's on a shoe, the less formal it is.  That's a more formal look, that's a more formal shoe. Black is always more formal than brown. A shoe that has a line across it, a cap toe, I'm sure you all know what a cap toe is, a shoe that has this kind of what they call broguing, these little holes punched in it, decorative broguing, which actually comes from back in the English countryside when broguing was designed to let the, these holes were designed to let the water out of your shoes because you're walking around boggy muddy water. So a brogued shoe was always less formal, that was a country shoe. But today it's decorative, it's fine. But the more decorations on a shoe, basically the less formal. So if you're wearing a suit to an interview, you might wanna try to wear a black shoe that's a little bit more formal. If you're going to just wear a sport coat and you're just going out to dinner or something like that, then you might choose a shoe that's less formal. But the key with shoes is that, first of all, that they're quality leather, second of all, that they're Goodyear-welted. And that the style is somewhat timeless. That's very, very important. You don't wanna buy a shoe that's gonna be, or address you. I mean, we're just talking about professional wear here. We're not talking about your weekend or casual wear. You don't wanna buy a shoe that's gonna probably go in or out of style. And you really have to care about the last. Now what's a last? The last is basically it's akin to a mold in metalwork or something like that. It's a form. It's a shape around which the shoe is made. Again, if you're Prince Charles, you have a custom, they literally create a custom last of your foot. And that's hanging in these really expensive shoe shops down in the basement in Savile Row in London. And so Prince Charles wants a new pair of shoes. I'm sure he doesn't call, but somebody calls for him. And they just order them up and it's literally made around a last of his exact foot. So it's gonna fit him like butter, okay?  And what you're gonna find is some shoes are built on a longer narrower last and some shoes are built on a shorter, wider last.  There's no other way about it. You might love a particular shoe but you have kind of a wide foot and it's just, it's made on a narrow, more elegant last and it's just not gonna work for you. It's just the way it is. It's not gonna fit because if it's a narrow last and you have a wide foot, in order to get one that's wide enough for you, it's gonna have to be too long. It's gonna have to be a much bigger size and you don't want that. So you have to, you know, figure out what your shoe size is with a good, at a good, better shoe store with a brand, what's called a brandic device. And then you have to just sort of accept that some lasts are gonna work for you and some aren't. So you have to, you have to sort of do again, do a little bit homework and learn about this stuff. And shoes are most important. Again, shoes are critical. So some of the brands here that I've listed are within reason, either at retail on sale or eBay and other sources. All of these are good, you're well-todd. Unfortunately, some of the famous American brands, Floor Shime, Cole Haan, Johnston and Murphy have become absolute garbage. They're generally made in India now. They're not made, those are US manufacturers. They're not made in the US anymore. You know, you'll see that pure garbage at places like Macy's for 180 bucks. It's not worth 50 bucks. So that's where you're being penny wise and pound foolish, because the shoe looks fine, but it's not fine. It's plasticky, it's gonna fall apart, it's gonna crease worse. On a cost per wear use, it's gonna be way worse over time. Okay, so you buy a $400 shoe and you wear it for 10 years. On a cost per wear, it's gonna be cheaper than that garbage non-good year well-todd shoe that you buy at the department store in your town. So Allen Edmonds is a heritage American brand. Alden is a heritage American brand. Both of them go back to the 1800s. Both are still made in America. Allen Edmonds is wobbling, they're teetering, getting goofy to try to reach mass markets. Just like Brooks Brothers in many ways is wobbling, teetering, getting goofy. But nonetheless, Allen Edmonds are still serviceable shoes, but more importantly, they are just a zillion of them out there. So we'll talk about how to get them inexpensively in a second, but a very ubiquitous brand. So you know you're getting a good year well-todd shoe and they still make some very traditional styles that are gonna serve you well. Allen Edmonds are about 395, I think, at retail, full retail. Alden Shoes, also American-made, very famous. Those are gonna be $700, $800 at retail. Churches is a very famous English brand. Locke is a more affordable English brand. Herring is a website that's excellent for getting English shoes at a pretty good price. Crockett & Jones is where you're getting up more into that $700, $800 for a pair of those. Peele & Company is a great place to find bargains, especially on eBay, because it's not actually a shoe company, it's a company that was built that started back in the 1500s making shoes for princes and such and then ultimately went out into business. Then Brooks Brothers just bought the name. And so Peele & Company shoe is actually a Brooks Brothers branded shoe. And so they farmed that out to people like Allen Edmonds and Crockett & Jones. So Peele & Co, because most people don't know about it and have never heard of it, it's a good sniper brand for eBay and other use sources. So a Peele & Co shoe is a good shoe. And then finally, these two Spanish brands, don't sleep on them. Carmina and Meerman, both great, a little less Englishy.  But they're just fantastic. And actually, Meerman, if you go to their site, their standard shoe, which is probably the single best secret and single best bargain in the world is $195. And Meerman has a lot of traditional styles. If you depends on where you live, but if you're in the US, they shipped to you without VAT. So we don't pay VAT in the US. And yeah, it's gonna cost you something like 30 bucks to get those shoes from Spain to the US. But at 195, I can't recommend them highly enough. So shoes, shoes, shoes, shoes. Suits, just like with Goodyear welting, a suit has to be at least half canvassed.  So there's, every suit has the outside, which of course is wool. It has the inside aligning and sport coat. And in between, there's a third layer, okay? That third layer in a good suit or in a serviceable suit is called the canvas. It's made from horsehair and other materials. So that's a piece of fabric that runs throughout the suit. It's in between the lining on the inside and the actual fabric of the suit, the wool on the outside. So that interlining in a decent suit is canvas, which means that that material is in there. This is half canvas when it's just the upper part of the suit. This is a full canvas where it's the whole suit. That material in between that third layer is stitched inside, but it's free-floating, okay? And it moves around inside. And what that does is over time, it conforms to your body shape and it fits you better. And it's gonna look better and it's gonna feel better. It's going to sweat less.  So most suits today below about $500 are not canvas, I'm afraid. You got to do what's called a pinch test. You can never trust a salesman. Nobody knows, I mean, you know, today. You have to do some research. The higher end lines of Brooks Brothers, for example, are fully canvas. The medium Brooks Brothers lines are half canvas. And then the cheap Brooks Brothers stuff is not canvas at all. So if a suit isn't canvas, it's called fused. So what that means is that that interlining is not made of horsehair. It's just felt or something inside and it's glued. So the three pieces, the three portions are glued together rather than having a stitched outline where the canvas can float freely. So if a suit is fused together, it's just gonna be hot. There's glue, you know, I don't know what chemical that is, but there's gonna be glue that's over time is gonna start to become unglued. You get these weird bubbling effects and it's just not gonna conform to your body very well.   If you're taller, if you're over six foot, you can get away with a three-button. Sometimes you'll see NBA players on TV and because they're so tall, their tailor thinks they have to make them like five or six buttons and it just doesn't work. The suit just needs to be bigger with the buttons farther apart to suit the seven-foot NBA guy. So two buttons are three buttons. I don't think one buttons are appropriate. You're not Frank Sinatra. And so remember, it's always button to top button only. You never button the middle button or the bottom button on a three-button. Always just the top button only. Don't get an unvented suit. You're not Bill Clinton. It's not the 90s. You need a vent in your suit. You either get a single vent or a double vent. Single vent's right in the middle and the back. Double vent comes from an English horse riding tradition where when you got on a horse and you had to put your leg over it, you needed that flap in the back so that your back end would fit over that horse okay. So that's a sort of a martial or riding tradition from English tailoring. So one or two vets, but definitely not no vets. And please don't get a black suit. Don't get a super skinny suit that's gonna look weird just like that 70s lime green thing. I mean, I know super skinny is the trend now. You can get skinny or to sort of be in vogue today but don't get the super skinny one and not black. You're not going to a funeral. You're not a Japanese salaryman. Black suits are a little, they're worn heavily throughout Japan and Korea but in the West they really are just, most people look terrible in them so please, please avoid that. Shirts, these are some of the brands that you can certainly find at very low prices, online, eBay, et cetera. They have these new non-iron shirts that have a chemical treatment. If you're a younger person, those are fine, those are great. You can pull them right out of the dryer and wear them without ironing. I don't have any big objection to that but they have to be all cotton. Make sure that whatever shirt you buy is long enough in the sleeves. You're going to have to buy just basic sizes. You can't, again, unless you're getting custom clothes but it has to show under the cuff of the jacket. At least a half an inch, preferably more like an inch. Most people, shirts are too short here and their suit or jacket is too long and so you can't see it. Don't do that. Make sure your cuff shows at least a half an inch below the jacket. Absolutely critical. Ties, ties are difficult. They're very personal.  The simpler your suit and your shirt is, the more you can have a tie that's interesting and that's where you express your individuality or some splash of color or whatever it might be, some design. It's just easier to do. If you stick with blue and gray suits, at least as you're starting out, you're just going to find that that's easier. Ties keep changing in width. They were like this wide in the 70s. If you go up to the third floor library, you'll see some of Mises' ties which he was wearing in New York in the 60s. They're very skinny. They're like about like this. So, fashion's changed right now. I would recommend three and a quarter or three and a half inch at the widest, measure it at the widest. That's going to keep you in sort of the current range. Any skinnier than that, any wider than that, you might regret that purchase a few years down the road. But again, ties on like shoes and suits, they're more temporal.  You're not going to necessarily wear them a lifetime. And then jewelry. I'm not going to comment on that. I'm against it. But again, that is my exceedingly Anglo-American huge bias. I think a wedding ring, a watch, maybe a fraternity ring or something like that. But I don't think bracelets and necklaces do men any favors. So this is, again, the opinion portion of the week here at Mises University. And we'll wrap up with some strategy and resources. And if anybody wants these slides, just ping me and I'll send them to you. You don't have to remember all this. But eBay is unbelievable. You can be very tactical with it. That you can set up certain searches. You can customize searches. You can have it, send you notifications for searches. There are particular apps that will tell you when a particular thing comes up. And there's all kinds of strategies on eBay to find stuff like if you were, I happen to be a perfect 10 medium shoe. Which, so I'm lucky in that I have a very easy to fit foot and there's a ton of them. Versus if you were a 15 or if you were a 7E or something, you're going to have a lot less to choose from on eBay. But if I search for 10 and a halfs, if I get a 10 and a half C, that's a little comparative advantage because hardly anybody's searching that. And there might be a shoe there that's a lot better quality that you can find for a lot less money because the size is just a little different. And I think that with given the photography today, some people don't want to buy used higher end shoes, just grosses them out or whatever. I think within reason, I think it's okay. I think you can look at the photos and make it an assessment for yourself. But it's a way for younger people to get that five, six, $700 quality shoe for a lot less money and it's gonna last a long time as long as you're willing to resell it. And maybe who knows? Who knows how it got on eBay? Maybe somebody died, maybe somebody didn't wear it very much. But again, if you get a quality shoe, you can literally wear that upper for 30 or 40 years if you take care of it. There's great website called Style Forum. There's a lot of really high quality classifies on there. There's a pretty vibrant community. So you can oftentimes find great deals there. Allen Edmonds used to maintain what they called a shoe bank website. They've discontinued that. But what you can do is there's, if you go to allenedmonds.com slash shoe bank, they have a couple of retail stores. And what they do there is they take what's called their factory seconds.  But if you bought that shoe perfect, like in the first day of wear, you would put that little blemish on it or whatever. So, I mean, the Allen Edmonds shoe bank is really a great resource. If you're willing again to do the work, you gotta call them up on the phone, ask them what style is from the main Allen Edmonds website they might have in your size. And they'll ship it right to you. Surprising amount of decent clothing on Amazon basics. Amazon is really muscling into the territory that was once held more by some of the more traditional men's retailers. So don't sleep on Amazon basics. Some of their stuff is just fine. Obviously you've got local consignment and thrifting.  Sometimes someone passes away or something and a bunch of their really high quality stuff gets ends up there. A lot of sites like Norton Rack and Saks off Fifth, Charles Tirwitt, which is a English retailer. Brooks Brothers is in big trouble since COVID. They've been bought once again by a different private equity firm, once again brought in new management. So they have a lot of old inventory. I think that you'd be surprised how cheap some of that Brooks Brothers stuff is. And then there's this whole new category of lux sites where there's a whole market. And I think women really drove this. You know, lux used lux goods like purses. Women are really into handbags and some of these handbags cost just $5,000 or something. And so from that sort of new genre of used lux websites filtered down into men. And so some of these sites like the RealReal and Poshmark have a lot of men stuff. So you can find pretty expensive stuff. There's a guy named Kirby Allison who does YouTubes. He's pretty famous in men's clothing circles. And all of his YouTubes are highly informative. He's got lessons on how to shine shoes, lessons on all kinds of things, how to typo ties. I mean, anything you might want to ask. Kirby Allison is a great resource. And then finally in the similar vein, Gentleman's Gazette, also a YouTube channel, also a website, really fantastic information and stuff. And there's a whole history to men's clothing which I think mostly escapes us, especially in the United States today. So I hope that you will take this presentation today and the spirit in which it was given. I hope you'll think about it and I hope you will all come back dressed and we'll see you next year. Thanks very much.


What's going on, everyone? Sam here with late sports cards, ripping out 2022-23, opinion-prism basketball hobby four box break number 12, random team style. Here's a look again at your random results. As always, combine those on the website under the results tab, as well as the link in chat. Got a couple pretty cool mixers coming up, guys. Just dropped the link in chat for you. It's two box mixer, 70th spot of 2021-22, uh, prism and 22-23 prism. So multi-year, a lot of really good teams in there. There are like four or five teams that have like five really good guys. And then there's a lot that are solid in one year, solid in the other. Harrison Barnes, red 2199. That's why the magic group after so long for this. Tim Hardlight, Jr. Paisado for the maps. Kyle speaks nothing but the truth there. Max Christie, rookie. Dennis Rodman. Palo Bancaro, rookie. Nice one there. Devin Vaselle. We do have the first one is sold out. So thank you guys. Stop. Two to go. One, uh, with 19 left. That is the second one. Red wave, Jalen Durran. Giannis. Hulsar, Terence Mann. Kendall Brown. And Jalen Durran. Orange wave coming up. That is Pat Bev for the Lakers to 60. Trey Young. Silver, Bobby Portis. What's up, Carl? Teamac. Carl. Blue ice coming up. That is Kennedy Chandler. Rookie to 125 for the Gris. Y Leonard. Silver, Kyle Lowry. Benedict Matherin. Pais Jones. Red wave. Lanzo Ball, color match for the Bulls. Widescreen in the middle. Nicola Vucovic. Pulsar. Jabari Walker, rookie. And Isaiah Movie. Blue, Rudy Gobert to 199. That is Darius Basely, Hyper. Caleb Houston and Shadon Sharp. So Caleb Houston, Shadon Sharp, run together too. Figuring it out, Donnie. Yep. We're seeing the patterns. John Morant, fireworks. Beans. Silver, Christian Brown. Rookie for the Nugs. Keen Elijah one. Silver, Prismatic to Marge Rosen. Prismatic, Paul George. Silver, Christian Coloco. Raptors. Chet Holmgren Rookie. Postman, Jane. Christian Coloco. Pulsar now, nice for the Raptors. AI. Knot, Chris Mullen. Place coming up now to 149. Bogdan Bogdanovich for the Hawks. Got Otto, Marcus Smart. Nice one there for the Cs. The green hair. Franz Wagner, Hyper. A.J. Griffin Rookie. And like Wesley. Silver, Patty Mills. Gowen, Nicola Yolkic. That is Cameron Payne, Red Width. Postman, Jane. Silver, Tyrese Halliburton. You know, it's kind of wild, Walker Kessler. Like, the playoffs technically start now with the playing games, then have to be over till June for NBA. That's crazy how long the NBA playoffs go. Which I don't really mind, because it gives us more sports other than baseball all the way into June. Because July is a tough month for sports. Because I love baseball, don't get me wrong, but especially when it's all-star break, there's literally none of the four major sports on. It's the only time during the year where there's none of the four major sports playing. Yeah, it's rough. Another mixer spot. Another mixer spot. Random prism coming in as well. Another PYT and a mixer spot coming in. Got now 16 to go, everybody. 16 to go. Call Bridges to 1.99. We've got Otto Ryan Rollins. Rookie Sensational Signatures for the Warriors. Rudy Gover. Keegan-Marie. Bandy Green, David Roddy. Silver, Bones Highland. JVel, Tony Parker. Giannis. That is John Stockton for the Jazz. Dude, that's sweet. 9 of 10. Gratz on that there. Utah. That's cool. Ray Allen. Kennedy Chandler and Peyton Watson. There's Cody Martin. Red Wave. Welcome to Lottery Dice and Dan. Silver, Jalen Noel. And Johnny Davis. Red, Giannis. 2.299. We've got another Otto Trayman, second year for the Thunder. Gratz Thunder. Just remind me to tell you something. Franz Wagner. Jathan Williams. Unbelievable. Brandon Clark. Good work. Red Wave. Tony Parker. T.P. for the Spurs. James Hart. Pulsar. Max Christie. Rookie. And Paul Pierce. Mojo. Patrick Ewing. Some nice low-numbered vets coming out of this. Going to the Knicks. Here you go, Wes. 13 of 25. Jalen Green. Silver, Norman Powell. Oh, for sure, dude. It's two straight months of stress if your team's like a contender. Kyrie. Blue Ice to 125. Silver, Kevin Porter Jr. Yeah, I'd rather have it where NFL just won and done. It's like you ripped a bandaid. Yeah. Blue, PJ Washington Jr. to 199. E.J. Liddell. Pulsar. I think that's where my anxiety comes from was the 2018-11-2012 playoffs, when the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Just like waiting for the Super Bowl, waiting that week for the Super Bowl to start. Robert Williams. Everybody's talking about it. Andrew Wiggins. Pulsar. Terry Eason. I'm like 12 years old in seventh or eighth grade.  Right. E.J. Liddell. Dyson Daniels. They're a couple of good rookies. Silver Fireworks, Steph Curry. Silver, Jaren Jackson Jr. Malachi, Brannam Rookie. Bangers today. Yeah, we hit a, in the first case move, we hit a, who was it? Palo. Palo, Red Power to 75. Anna Matheren, Red Power to 75. KD. Wacka Lottery Palo. Silver, Blake Wesley. And Jaden Ivey. I think it's Sixers hits. I know, I think Forrest pulled a couple of AIs earlier today. I don't think anything's super crazy. A couple numbered like Mbeads, stuff like that. You got shot it. I think we had like a Blue Heart in or something like that as well. Silver, Anthony Davis. Got Del Curry for the Hornets. Nice one there, Charlotte. Del Curry. Angel Neymar. Ty's Jones. Caleb Houston. John Stockton. Red Wave. Herbert Jones for the Pelicans. Jaden Ivey. Pulsar, James Harding. Doug McDermott. Marjon Bochamp. Jaden Hardy Rookie. Hit like a Palo Otto. Hit a Jabari Smith Otto. Walker Kessler Otto. Hit a Walker Kessler 199 as well. Paul Pierce, Purple. 299. Silver Christian Wood. Dallin Terry. Muk, as a jazz fan, you need to buy a Igbaji. An Igbaji Purple, dude. It is so sick. They're in the throwback Purple Jazz Unis. And the Purple is like the Purple. The Purple Ice is like the perfect color match. Down to 15 to go now, guys.  I was thinking of you, dude. I was like, that's got to be a Muk card right there. Devin Booker. Justin Holliday Pulsar. Or Hyper. God, I keep calling that a Pulsar.  No, it's not even. It's called a Prism in Tops. So that makes it even more confusing because I'm like, oh, Kennedy Chandler, Blue Ice, the 125. Rookie for the Grizz. Steph Curry. Silver at Lamello Ball. Shade on Sharp Rookie. BI. Chet Holmgren. Red Wave. Jeremy Grant for the Blazers. Zion as Kevin Herter. Hyper. Jing. AI. Josh Renaut. Oh, it's so nice, dude. I think Forrest pulled one earlier today. Silver Wide Screen Ja. Shade on Sharp. Silver Jaden Hardy. Mullen. Lofton. Keldon Johnson. Maddox Hawaii. Silver Marjan Bochamp. Sup, Christopher? How you doing, buddy? E.J. LaDyletray Jones. What up, what up, what up? Good to see you as always. Blue is Josh Renaut. Rookie to 199 for the T-Wolves. Otto Nicola Jovic. Rookie for the Heat. It's one there in Miami. Nicola Jovic. Will Barton. Walker Kessler Rookie. That's Rodman and Apollo. Nice. Nice runner. Rookie is there. Blue Dort. Prism. Or, see, I did it again. Hyper. Ochaik Bhaji. Everybody's having a good day here again. Guys, 15 to go on that second mixer. I think the next one's down to 24 as well. McCall Bridges. Ooh, Palo Orange. Geez, dude. Silver Yo-Kitch. Jalen Duren. Cavs and Mitchell Hunt. Fair. Benedict Matheran. It's not a bad idea, honestly, move. Not a bad idea at all. At all, at all. That's Silver Giannis. Nice one there for the Bucks. Nacelle Coloco. Christian Brown. All right, now there's more spots flying in, everybody. Thank you so much. More PYT spots coming in as well. What are we down to now? We're down to 11. 11 to go, everybody. I know you'd never be able, hey, at least a team would be, team would get better. Team would improve. But yeah, it'd be, that'd be, it'd be tough for group breaks right there, hoarding them if they get women yama. That'd be tough for sure. Very tough. Very, very tough. Also, there are some teams on sale over in the PYTs as well. You guys are interested in that. Check it on out. Red Wave, Davion. AD. Silver Malcolm Brogdon. J. Nivey Rookie. Red Ben Wallace to 299. Julian Champagne. That is Rookie Otto for the Sixers. Julian Champagne. Jabari Walker. Zion Bass. Jabari Smith Rookie. Purple Jonathan Isaac to 99. He's actually not bad. Bishop. Silver Steph. It's actually pretty, like a solid role player for sure. Not, not, not one of those guys who made a superstar, but a guy who could be like a piece on a championship team eventually. Ain't bad. That is a Herbert Jones Red Wave. Luck of the Lottery Keeganer. Dwayne Wade Pulsar. Hyper. Ochaic Bahi. Kendall Brown and Kevin Garnett. Brutal. That's sir, yes sir. A nice little auto there. Damian Lillard Red Wave. Harden. Uh, Pulsar there. Aaron Wiggins. That's not a Pulsar. That's a Hyper, of course. Marjan Bochamp. Just never going to get it right, dude. Jaden Hardy. Just say why you do this to me. Six-one raise now. Good God. Silver widescreen. Zion. DeMar DeRozan. Silver. Palo. There you go, magic. There we go. Let's go, man. Nice Palo coming your way. Gary Payton. Down Terry. Shaq. Blue Ice. Jordan Pool. Pool party. It's a one, uh, 25. Kate. Silver, Dremond. Jalen Duren. Benedict Matherin. Purple Ice. Patrick Ewing. Nice one there. Doing the rainbow there next to 149. Got Hyper. Giannis. Caleb Houston. John Stockton. That's actually a pretty good game. 37-32, I think that. Silver. Luck of a lottery. Shade on sharp. Kyrie. Silver Devon Vaselle. Shade on sharp. Jett Holmgren. That's a good run right there. Sharp and Holmgren. Wow. It's like we have another auto in here. Blue is John Stockton. 2-1-99. Auto. Keegan Murray. There you go. Congrats, Kings. Very nice. Keegan Murray. Going to Sacramento. There you go, Sacramento. First Keegan we've seen today. Reggie Bullock. That's Williams Jr., Max Christie. Josh Silverchet. Memhard Liddell. Trey Jones. And last pack of the break. Good luck, everybody. Looks like we got a Prismatic. Pulsar. Jalen Duren. Nice one there for the, uh, Pistons. Osvane Zhang. AI. And Josh Minott. Do a quick recap here. Thanks again, everybody, for getting this filled up. Silver. John Stockton. Keegan Murray. I'm Silver. Gold, John Stockton. What? I mean, they are both precious medals, technically, so I'm not wrong. Sam's falling apart, Jeff. Keegan Murray. Julian Champagne. Nicola Jovic. Del Curry. Trey Mann. Ryan Rollins. Marcus Smart. Tim Hardaway. And Silver Palo. That'll do it for the break, guys. Thanks again for filling that up. Next up is our first mixer.