Hello, all, and welcome. The following session is about the Blinken Rocket, the nifty device that some of you might already know. It's a 100% open source do-it-yourself soldering kit that offers the best hands-on experience for beginners of all ages. Overflow and Mutsi are here to tell us all about their journey in making the Blinken Rocket fly. Let's hear some applause for Overflow and Mutsi. So, oh, well, I can hear my voice. So we're waiting for the slides to appear. And while we're waiting for the slides to appear, a warm welcome from my side as well. I Mutsi, this is Flo, but we're going to introduce ourselves later on again. So let's spend some time waiting for the slides to appear. And also a warm welcome to those who are in the streams. At least I got one hint that somebody is on the tram right now. So they probably have good connectivity to watch this talk as well. So you're going to walk with us through the journey of Blinken Rocket, which is this little thing that I have here on this band. And we're going to talk you through various topics. So we're going to start with our project goals, because you want to have goals before we start something, just like with any product we have. Then we're going to talk you through this little hardware, what we have on there, the design considerations behind that, and probably most interesting, the software running on this little device. And after all, we're going to talk you through how to actually productize a do-it-yourself soldering kit, because we know that there are plenty of ideas here in that room. And if you want to distribute your own do-it-yourself soldering kit, well, you can learn probably a lot from what we've went through and what we've learned, and also what you can do right in the first place without actually failing one, three, or four times. So shortly about us, this here on my left side is Flo. He's a dad of three and a member of the MetaLab. And he's the guy behind the Hackerspace shop. That's an online shop for various do-it-yourself kids. You created plenty of do-it-yourself kids in the past, so he's like more experienced than I am. And at daytime, I do big data topics. And at nighttime, once the sun sets, well, I'm creating do-it-yourself kids for kids. So at this point in time, I want to thank all the contributors that helped us making this little thing possible. So a big shout out and thank you. You're awesome, guys. Yeah, and you can give them a round of applause. So let's start with Project Gold. If you see this little kit, and you have probably seen it already today, because at Junghaka Talk, there are plenty of children actually soldering this. So we have a target audience. So first of all, if you create something, you have to think about who uses it or who's the, well, intentional audience behind that. So we have children, youth, and adults, basically, as our audience. And when they sort of this, they're probably at home or in workshops, in schools, universities, or even Hackspaces. Well, most of us here come from Hackspaces, so that's kind of obvious. And we have some requirements derived by that. First of all, I hate it when I have to use a special programmer to program my devices. If I have something great, I just assembled it, and then I need to assemble something to just program it. That's awful. And also, I hate it when I have to buy something because I forgot to buy it. Like with a little Arduino thing, in the past, you had to have this USB to serial converter. And I almost never thought about that, so that was kind of bad. Also, given the target audience, children, well, they don't feel small parts, but adults do. So we try to choose big parts, and they're even like little, small SMD parts here, and they can be big too. So we made the footprints wider and bigger so that if you solder them, they will flow nicely, and you cannot do it wrong, actually. And we wanted to have cheap components so that if you buy a kit, you do not have to spend too much money, and ideally, it should be free anyway because we do not care about your income and everything should be free when it comes to learning stuff. Also, the most important aspect, if you make something, it should be, well, useful in the first place. It should be fun and also educational, especially if you're targeting children, they should learn something. And with this kit, they can learn how to solder. They will see that something in the digital world can be translated to the real world, so that was our main aspect. And it's, well, kind of fun to have something that blinks your name or has nice little animations on there. So based on these considerations, the blinking bucket was born about two years ago. And on the front side, you see the 8x8 pixel dot matrix display, then the audio jack for uploading data, and that's like one thing that addresses this no programmer needed aspect because we wanted to have the ability to use your mobile basically to upload new texts or animation to that little device. So this is kind of special to that we just have soldering kit. Also, not interacting with something is kind of boring, so we added a little two push buttons so that you can move between the animations and texts that are scrolled through the display. On the back, we have, of course, a coin cell that powers the whole device, and it lasts about a day or two, so don't worry about new batteries. Also, we have a little 80 tiny microcontroller, which was the cheapest microcontroller back in the day with that much pins to drive the display directly. And also, we have a storage with 64K of storage available for your animations. And that's roughly 2000 to 3000 characters of texts, and they can be a little hard to read on that little display, so it should be sufficient for all time. And also, some additional little SMD components, well, to solder everything. On the software side of things, everything is open source, like this awesome Harold already mentioned, we wanna make everything open source. And when we talk about everything, it's not just source code or the PCB layout. We also made our documentation open source and licensed it the proper way. We made our manual that's actually printed and handed it into every kit also open source. And not only the PDF, also the source files that you can assemble it on your own or remix it based on your needs. The firmware was written in modular C++. I don't think it matters too much, actually, but I think it's worth mentioning though. Also, we have a web editor for putting little animations and text on this device, so you can use it on any device, whether it be your mobile phone or your computer, everything with a web browser and an audio device is capable of programming the Blink rocket. And it's written in JavaScript, of course, if it's a web application and the one initially created it used the awesome React.js framework because it, well, made things a little easier. The audio transmission itself is using square waves, so little square signals coming out your audio device. And you have a protocol using forward error correction so that if there is a mistake within the transmission, it will be fixed automatically. So after a while, we created a thousand Blink rockets, so a thousand kits to be distributed among children, youth, and adults. They were manufactured by lots of volunteers in mid-2016 after roughly half a year of development time in our spare time. It was initially funded by the CCC. I'm not too sure who knows the Karlsmarthschule initiative by the CCC. If you could raise your hands. Well, it's like the whole crowd. So if you don't know it, go ask your neighbor after this talk what this awesome initiative is. So it was funded to be part of these workshops taking place in the Karlsmarthschule initiative. It was packaged by volunteers at the Hexbase in Stuttgart. So it took roughly a day for 10 people to assemble a thousand kits. And it was distributed across all Europe for workshops. And here are some impressions of workshops taking place. They were awesome. The kids had plenty of fun to assemble their Blink rockets. And in the moment, they slid the battery in and everything started to blink. It was just awesome to see their faces and well, see all that enjoyment in their face. But there was a big catch and this is where I head over to Flo because we learned a lot and he's going to tell us about what we've learned. Yeah, so hello. Is this on? Do you hear me? I'm not sure if I'm on or not. Yes, okay. Hello. So yes, there was a little catch and we learned a lot. So the first thing when I got my hands on the first Blink rocket kit, I realized it was a really good one and there was potential to make this bigger and distributed to more kids. But the first thing, the first problem that occurred to me was that we used square waves to transmit the data on the Lenovo ThinkPad. For example, that worked out just fine. But the same manufacturer for another notebook, it didn't work at all. As you can see here, the data was totally distorted and we could not process that signal. So transmission from the web browser to the rocket wouldn't work reliable. Some common errors that happened were that the signal would drift over time. Like in the first picture on the left, you see a yellow curve and that's the signal that you get out of the sound card. And the blue signal, the blue curve is what the computer would make out of that. And by the voltage drifting, upside down to the y-axis, you see that this signal is really hard to process and it just wouldn't work out reliably. And also, on the right, you see the heavily distorted signal. But why? Why is that happening? Well, every sound device works a little different. We have different manufacturers of sound chips. We have different sound cards. And they all do similar things, but not exactly the very same thing. And most sound cards are troubled by square waves. So if you make a square wave signal, it goes like this, sound cards cannot reliably produce that, or some of them, most of them. And also there's various layers between the web browser and the actual sound card. For example, you generate a sound object in the web browser and it's given to the ALSA driver and that gives it to some hardware abstraction layer and that gives it to the kernel and that's handed over to the actual hardware. And in all these steps in between, the signal can be modified and is modified especially at the hardware level. The signal is modified so it sounds good to the human ear, but it's not really meant to submit data. So, Chris Weigl came up with a solution to this problem by introducing ADC, Analog Digital Converter Edge Detection, which means he sampled the signal a lot. Sometimes, and it worked much more reliable than the old way of simply detecting the edges of the square signal. But still, there were some issues. It didn't work 100% and he spent some more time digging into this problem. And he came up with this solution of frequency shift keying and that worked really good. Frequency shift keying means that you make not square waves, but sine waves. You can see that the form is like, it doesn't go like this, but more, it's more curvy, to say. And that's what sound clouds usually do. They provide waves and that kind of transmission worked out much more reliable. It's also much slower, but that's okay. We are talking about some seconds to transmit the data instead of some milliseconds. So that's totally acceptable. If you plug it in, it will take you, I don't know, two seconds and then you have the animation on the rocket. Once it was fixed, I started to take a look at the hardware level, how the kit could be improved. And one thing that we found out during workshops was that the battery holder was not the best choice because people would put in the batteries in various ways that were not intended. So this is what the original battery holder looked like and you could insert the battery like this, which is actually wrong. It looks right, but it's not because a part of it is bent. And there's also this other way of inserting it that happened a lot. And in this way, the rocket wouldn't work. So yeah, I got rid of the battery holder and introduced this one. It has some benefits. It's a little more expensive than the other one, but the battery slides in from the top and there is just one way to insert the battery the wrong way and that doesn't happen too often. Well, if the other battery holder, there were eight possibilities to insert the battery in the wrong way. So that took away a lot of problems. Yeah, then the original matrix module that was included was also very cheap, but I thought that if you make a kit that you would hang around your neck, it should look nice. It shouldn't be 10 cents cheaper, but it's worth to add a little extra and have good looks. So we introduced this new matrix module that has square dots and diffuse lights and it just looks better. And then I revised the PCB design a lot and not a lot, a little. I just shuffled around the components and I penalized the design for production, which means that I took one rocket and put it on a panel like this. So we have 14 rockets and you can feed this into a pick and place machine to automatically produce the boards. So why is that? Because pre-populated versions are targeting different users. The kit, when I got it for the first time, it was rather complex and you had to solder the MCU and the EEPROM yourself and I'm now offering three different versions. One where you solder all the stuff yourself for experienced users and one where the EEPROM and the MCU is already in place for targeting kits. And one version where all the SMD components are already on the board and you just soldered the six for whole components yourself, which targets very young people like my daughter made one, which is six years old. So this is when version two was born. Yeah, you see the new Matrix model there, you see the battery holder and the components are more far away than in the old design to make it easier to solder. And that's the thing. If you make one board, it's quite easy. You make the design, you order it from China, get your tank copies and then you assemble it. But if you make a thousand of something, you run into various challenges and problems. So for example, for the first production run, the original kits that were made in 2016, everything was done by hand. So Mutzi built this programming mass programming fixture with a zero injection force socket where you place the microcontroller inside and you have a little script that flashes the microcontroller with the actual firmware. Making thousand kits means opening the socket, inserting the MCU, closing the socket, hitting the button 1,000 times. How long did it take you? Well, roughly a day of just removing a single chip out of the packet, putting it in, closing the lid, pressing a button, opening the lid, well, moving everything out into a little plastic bag. And these were kind of nasty because they were like those Ziploc bags and well, they were hard to open. So I spent roughly eight hours flapping a thousand microcontrollers, which was awful, believe me. It's not fun. If you ever make a kit, this is something you don't wanna do. It's just... Don't do it. Don't do this. There are alternatives, I will show you later. And then, as you can see on the right, components were put on labels. So the kit consists of the actual MCU and EEPROM and eight different other components like resistors, capacitors and diodes. And they have different values. So what they did in the first production run is they took little stickers, little labels, and cut all the components up and put them in the correct position on the sticky notes and put them in the kit. Eight parts times thousand kits is 8,000 cuts. Being there with scissors, 8,000 times cutting up parts. You need a lot of people or a lot of time or both. How long did that take? Well, we had roughly 10 people helping out, thankfully. Otherwise, I would spend like weeks or months doing it. And we spent roughly a day with 10 people to create a thousand kits. And that includes also like cutting down parts. And people were really eager to help. So I was really thankful, but this wasn't feasible for the next thousand kits. Absolutely not. Yeah, it's not fun. It's not a fun activity when building kits. This part should be done by machines. That's what they're for. So when I kind of took over the production of the kits, I figured I should save time by using machines. Even if it costs a little extra, it's probably worth the time and money. And I should get pre-programmed MCUs. You can pay a little extra some cents and you get the MCU with the program in it from the manufacturer. It costs like 10 or 15 cents, something around that. And it's totally worth the effort. And I introduced color coding of S&D parts. In the old kit layout, you had the label that said R1 and then you put the part right there. In the new kit, you have a part that is labeled and there is no text on it, but it's a red part or a green part or a blue part. And you get a little card that says put the red part on R1 and the blue part there. That took away a lot of time when assembling the kits. And finally introduced a new package. It now comes in a little plastic package that you can use for transportation and also during assembly. It's very handy. So yeah, I mentioned robots before. When I was faced with the job of making a thousand kits, I thought that I would not be able to cut these parts up myself and I should make a machine for that and let the friendly robot take over. And that's what I did. I'm gonna show you a short video now where you see how that worked out. Yeah, a little fast forward there. Yeah, so I called this machine, that's a hacker. Yeah, that's a hacker. It took me some time to build it. I thought, yeah, take some scissors in the motor and it'll work. Took me four iterations. What it does is it cuts SMD parts from the drill. It also color codes the parts while cutting them.  So I can just replace that for each part so they are color encoded. And I have two buttons where I can adjust how many holes I want to move forward before cutting it up because I have some parts where I need three pieces in the kit and I have others where I just need one. And it cuts a lot fast. It's really fast. I cut up to 1,000 parts an hour which saved me days of work to make these kits. It was totally worth the effort. But it took me four iterations to get the machine right. The main point I learned is that scissors are a spare part that must be replaceable.  So I used open-ass curtain, my oldest 3D printed designs to hold the scissors in place. And you see here ball bearings from roller blades that push down the scissors. And there's one part that's called a sprocket. A sprocket is like a little wheel that has spikes and that's something I actually bought in China for $15. And that gets in there and it's used in commercial pick and place machines to move forward the tape. So PCB fabrication. Once I had all these parts cut up and the firmware issues fixed, it was time to go to the fab house and have the PCBs manufactured because I got the panels that we showed you earlier from China and I wanted the parts on there. And I made a little video of how the process works. It was really fun to be there and it was a very nice afternoon to watch all these huge robots doing the work. So I will show you a little how that turned out. So here's panels and this is when the solder paste is applied. The solder paste is now on the panels and then they go into the pick and place machine which is configured before. And this is real-time footage. That's how the robot really looks in real-time. It moves quite fast. It scans the part, adjusts it. If it's not positioned use adjustment. It goes into the oven and once it baked, it comes out of the oven and ta-da! It blinks. You just have to assemble the through-hole components yourself and then you're done. So yeah. And what caught me by surprise was the cost structure to make this kit. I did not expect that the cost would be this, how do you say? Yeah, well, we have assembly, tooling and supply chain cost of about over 50% of the actual kit costs and 50% is material. So even if you use machines to make a kit, it takes time and in this case, it took more time than I expected. So I'm currently selling those kits at my shop for 25 euros each and you buy basically two kits and one is given into a little box and if you make a workshop with kits at a school where they don't pay for it, I take the kit out of there and give it to the kits for free and you might get a little email with pictures afterwards so you can actually see what happened with your donation. Yeah, so that is my part of the talk. I will hand over to Mutzi again. So I think we learned a valuable lesson about the cost structure because that will affect all of you creating DIY kits because the cost might not be obvious if you browse through shops and see that likely your microcontroller costs less than euro but then all the other costs can add up to what we've seen there. So it can be surprising and you should be aware of that. So we all ask ourselves right now, what's next? And I had a look in the audience while Flo was talking and I've seen plenty of Blinken rockets. So that's already a good sign. So what's next? Today there are soldering workshops for children here on the Congress.  There will be more workshops because the first kits were distributed, well, in 2016 and Flo did create another 1,000 kits. So there will be more to be distributed for those workshops. There will be you can hack workshops in Austria next year. So if you're from Austria or living nearby then you might want to consider going there or well, if you are not an adult of course and sold your own custom Blinken rocket. But even if you're an adult, that's not a problem because you could create a workshop in your community. So if you like to have a nice Blinken rocket soldering workshop, don't hesitate to ask us. We have all the material required to create your own workshop. We have guidance, we have manuals, we have best practices. So just ask us and we will try our best to make your workshop a success. And also you, as Flo already told us, you can buy a kit in his shop and there's automatically one kit being donated to such a children workshop because we do believe that if a child does attend a workshop, there should be no fee attached to that because, well, we want to treat everybody equal and money should not be a thing there. So if you buy one there, of course, it will go to one free workshop for a kid. So I think that's a good thing. If you got some time to spare and I think everybody does, especially if you're in your local hex space, you could plan a local workshop. So please do so. If you're a web developer willing to spend some time to improve everything, well, there's a GitHub repository with all the code in there. You can create a fork. You could work on the issues to make everything even better. Like for instance, better support for animations or better editing tools or create a share button for sharing animations with your friends. Or you could just spread the word. Everything is open source, so we want to encourage you guys to actually use what we've created to create your own stuff. So please be welcome to do so. This is the reason for making everything open source and we would kindly ask you to do the same with your stuff. This is our talk already. There follows a Q and A session right now. If you want to ask in German, if you're not so familiar with English, don't worry, we will translate everything to English first and then answer it in English and there will be the translation angels translating it to German on the right channel. If you want to contact us after the talk, there is an email address, there is a Twitter handle and there's also a decked phone number. It was seven... Seven, eight, five, I think? Yeah, seven, eight, eight, five. Or just come to the stage right after the talk so we can have a chat and we can show you everything in detail and, well, help you out. So thanks a lot. Thank you very much. And applause for the speakers. We have four microphones set up in this hall. Please come forward with your questions and we also take questions from online. Anybody? Don't be shy. No questions. No questions. No expectations at all. So... Oh, there was a question. Just a quick question. Do you also sell the kits on-site? Yes, I do. Actually, we do. The kits are available in the hardware hacking area right there in Hall C with the white umbrellas there. It says FPGA right there. I have some. You can just follow him after the session. So I think he's willing to give you one. Or more. Thank you. Is there anybody else? Well, I guess not. Thank you very much. Over for... You're welcome. A round of applause, please. Have a great Congress.


Good morning, and welcome to the United States Institute of Peace. We're gathered here in the International Women's Commons, here for the sixth annual Dean Atchison Lecture, which is a series which honors the 51st Secretary of State. He was a public servant of great distinction, and the architect of some of the most significant solutions to international peace and innovations in conflict management. He was a man of great achievement. We're so grateful that Dean Atchison's son, David, is here today to help honor the work and life of the consummate statesman of his time. This lecture series did not be possible without the generosity of Lockheed Martin, our premier sponsor for the Atchison Lecture, and we're grateful for their continued support. I have the privilege of introducing now our friend and the sixth annual Dean Atchison Lecture, George P. Schultz. I think everyone in this room knows that George Schultz is one of our country's most distinguished public servants and a man of great achievement. He's a former Secretary of State, a former Secretary of Labor, a former, Labor got the big round here, Secretary of Treasury and a former director of the Office of Management and Budget. George was involved in everything from international economic policy to the modern history of the Middle East and Asia and crucial moments in the Cold War. He's also been a champion for the United States Institute of Peace. George was the Honorary Co-Chairman of the Building for Peace Campaign along with Father Ted Hespert. For those of you who visited the Institute before, it's likely you've been over to luncheon in or walking under the ancery sculptural dove in the George P. Schultz Great Hall. We would have enjoyed this lecture in the Schultz Great Hall today, but the space is already hosting the Aspen Challenge, a forum for students and teachers from 20 partner high schools across the city pioneering change to some of the world's most pressing problems. We wish them luck. When we dreamed of the Institute's new headquarters, and George helped us dream this, and Charlotte I might add, this was one of the ways we imagined this space would be used. Thank you, George, for your leadership of this Institute and to our country. I think George, in a moderate discussion, is USIP's Chairman of the Board, Stephen J. Hadley. Just about a year ago, I handed the gavel of the chairmanship to Steve. Steve's commitment to USIP has been unwavering. As many of you know, he's been the Co-Chair of three of the Institute's most important working groups, which we convened. One dealing on the Middle East with Sandy Berger, one on Afghanistan and Pakistan with John Podesta, and one with Madeleine Albright on a rock. It's a privilege to have you both today, and I look forward to a lively discussion. Please join me in welcoming George Schultz and Steve Hadley. One of the nice things about this is that Steve is going to ask me questions, but I see a lot of my old friends out here. And if I can't handle a question, I know who to point to. I'm going to ask him questions, but he's going to talk about whatever he wants to talk about, which is how we want it to be. We'll have this conversation for about 30 minutes, and the last 15 minutes we'll take questions from the audience, and there'll be microphones that will come to you. Thank you very much for being with us today. I want to start in noting that, of course, you were Secretary of State, President Ronald Reagan, from 1982 to 1989, and helped end the Cold War, the preeminent policy issue of the proceeding four decades. But the world today is very different. You've written that it is a world awash in change. The emergence of China, Russia invading Ukraine, Iran subverting much in the Middle East, ISIS controlling territory in Iraq and Syria, al-Qaeda is now back. Are there any lessons from the successful navigation of the Cold War that apply to this very different world that we face today? I think so. I think the first thing you need to do is describe the situation to yourself in realistic terms. No rose-covered glasses. What exactly is going on? And then you have to develop your strength and your ability to deal with the issues. Strength is important. It gives you options, and enables you to do things you couldn't do without it. It's military strength, but also economic strength, but also strength of purpose and confidence in yourself. And on the basis of that, you have to develop a strategy and develop what you think your agenda is. Don't be thinking about what the other guy's agenda is. Think of what your agenda is and then work from your agenda. And once you're there, be ready to engage with people. But don't forget your agenda. I'll be too impressed with what it takes to get them to agree. Work from your agenda. One of the problems today is that there are so many crises that the president and his national security team are dealing with.  So how did you deal with that problem? Because there were a lot of things going on. What is your recommendation to people today about how to get out from under the sort of the tyranny of the inbox and the crisis management challenge of the moment? Well, I think, first of all, I hate words like reset or swing to here or swing to there. The reality is you have to conduct a global diplomacy. The United States does. So you have to be everywhere. That's why it's so important to have this first-class foreign service that we have. Because they're everywhere, and they can work with the president, work with the secretary, work with the political appointees. But there are people who have spent their lives and spent their career understanding all these different places. And on their basis and with the strength that can be given from commerce and from DOD, of course, you can conduct a global diplomacy, and that's what you have to do. You can't say, okay, I'm going to specialize on the Soviet Union and forget everything else. That's a bad mistake. Or China and forget everything else. You've got to be able to cope everywhere, and you have the horses to do it with the first-class foreign service that we're lucky to have. I wonder if I can read something from a book you wrote that came out in 2013. It's called Issues on My Mind, Strategies for the Future. And if you don't have a copy, you should get one. It's, in the front part, it's really a distillation of the lessons. Sounds like a commercial. I don't get a cut on this. No financial interest whatsoever. But it's a distillation of lessons from his career and very relevant today, and then the back a whole series of speeches he gave. And I want to read one thing which I thought was particularly extraordinary on this issue of strategy. The Secretary writes, when I was in office, I benefited from a practice of pausing to reflect on the big picture a few times a week. I would say, hold off on calls unless it's my wife or the president showing that he had his priorities right. I stayed away from my perpetually full inbox and settled into a comfortable chair armed with paper and pencil. I would say to myself, now what are we trying to achieve? Leaving aside the immediate issues of the day, where do we want to go and how can we get there? These regular personal sessions help me maintain my focus on strategy. And I would say that good advice for anyone in the government today and hard to do. As you look at the national security structure today, what advice, and given all the variety of issues they face, what advice would you give to the president and the national security staff today in order to get a strategic focus in what they are dealing with day to day? Well, first of all, I would apply the procedures that I outlined a minute ago. And then you have to go to each one of these places and analyze. Let's take you around just to take an example. Okay, if you're describing around yourself realistically, what do you say? You say, first of all, Iran is probably the leading state sponsor of terrorism. It has been from day one when they took our embassy people hostage. They had the attack on the Grand Mosque and Mecca.  Sometimes directly, sometimes through Hezbollah or other Nazis. So that's number one about Iran. It's a state sponsor of terrorism. And Iran also has some of the characteristic of ISIS in that it is against the state system. These people in ISIS don't believe in countries. They're trying to establish something different from the state system. And Iran has always had that aspect to it. So support for terrorism. Then if you look inside Iran, there are a lot of executions even with the so-called new guy. So they run themselves in a tough basis. No question about that. Then they have developed ballistic missiles. Why would they want a ballistic missile? They've spent a lot of effort on that. And then they are developing nuclear weapons. There is no other explanation possible for the huge investment they've made in talent and funds to develop this nuclear infrastructure they've got. There's no other way of explaining it. So that's the reality. You have to confront that reality. And you won't have to say to yourself, they're not known as rug merchants for nothing. Historically, Iranians have been good bargainers. They know how to do that thing. So watch out. Personally, I think we gave away half the store when we started the negotiations because the UN resolution after resolution and our policy for a long time has always been to make a sharp distinction between access to technology for a nuclear power plant and access to technology about enrichment. And in the negotiations, we gave away enrichment when they say we've given them the right to enrich, they're right in the way we've done it. So that was a big part of our bargaining power. It's gone. So we have a tough deal ahead of us to get any kind of respectable deal with Iran. And we keep kicking the can down the road. Time is not on our side. It's on their side because the sanctions are eroding. And I read about how we're going to snap right back. You must be out of your mind.  It's very hard. So by kicking the can down the road, they're gaining time. Pretty soon they may pick up the can and go home. So that's Iran. And it's a tough issue. It's related to what's going on in the Middle East which I think is related to what's going on in the Ukraine. In the Middle East, terrorism is the tactic. And we are reacting to the tactic. But we need to dig underneath and say what these people are advocating is the end of the state system. They say directly that they're against countries. They want to put into place some sort of a caliphate that cuts across everything. It's different. It was an expense for that reason. It was interesting that out at the Hoover Institution at Stanford where I spent my time, the leading military guy from Pakistan visited us not too long ago. And listening to him, he was more worried about terrorism than he was about India. And he was worried about ISIS. He said they're establishing themselves in Pakistan. So it isn't only the Middle East. This ideology of something different from the state system with the tactic of terrorism is spreading around. And we have to do something about it. Partly that's a tough military approach. But I think we've got to dig in deeper and challenge their ideology. And I was very pleased to read of the speech that the President of Egypt gave me the other day. We've got to have Muslim leaders tackling this issue. And there's another thing being from San Francisco, of course, I'm biased to things that we're doing out there, but there's a guy out there named Bill Swing. Bill is a retired Episcopal Bishop of California. And he started something called the United Religion Initiatives. And he wanted to bring religions together. And he found if you start at the top, they're all stove-biked. So he starts at the bottom. And he has over a thousand, what he calls, cooperation circles. Where he gets people from different religions. The most prominent are Christian and Islamic.  And they come together in what they call cooperation circles. And they discuss subjects of interest to them, like education or economic development or nuclear weapons or something. And they find these are subjects they can talk about and they have a common interest in them. And they're not arguing about each other's religion. They're just trying to advance the ball on subjects of interest like this. And I think actually he's got way over a million people involved. He's in I think 86 countries or something like that. So it's pretty far from. And that kind of thing I think we ought to be encouraging. Can you say a word about how you would apply those principles to the challenge of Russia today and what they're doing in terms of Ukraine? You spent lots of years dealing with the Soviet Union. In some sense, you know, we're back with a tough issue in dealing with Russian aspirations. Well, let's start as I did before. Let's start by describing the situation to ourselves in realistic terms. What has happened? Well, first of all, it seems as though Russia wants to reestablish its dominance over the former Soviet space. Started with Georgia. Now the Ukraine. Putin seeks a sphere of influence world. It's not that in some ways it has an odd parallel to what the ISIS is doing. Break up the state system as we now see it. It's worth noting that he has broken down the notion that borders mean something. That the state system is based on the idea that borders mean something. Furthermore, there was an agreement made when the Ukrainians gave up their nuclear weapons signed by Russia, the United States, and Britain that the borders of the Ukraine would be respected. You don't even hear that treaty. It's as though it doesn't exist. Completely bypassed. So that's what he's trying to achieve. And what's going on now is another bite of that apple. And, of course, the countries around it say, see this, and they're reacting. The Baltic states are reacting. So what should we be doing? I think we should be without, we should be describing it publicly as we see it. And we should set out what our strategy is. He manages to get somewhere by threatening people with their oil and gas. So we should have a major energy initiative to reduce the dependence of these countries on oil and gas from Russia. And, goodness knows, we're in a fortunate position right now. The world is awash in oil and gas if we can build LNG plants. There's a floating LNG receiving ship.  So it's not that hard to get the receiving ships, getting the plant to liquefy natural gas takes a longer time, but those things are being built. So we should do that. And certainly there's plenty of oil around the ship. So we should be organizing that and what he's going to be confronted with. It's not only the prices are going down, but he's going to lose market share permanently because he's demonstrated that he's not a reliable supplier. So we should organize that. Then I think we're way behind in our own military. Sequestration is legislated in sanity. It's beyond belief that we think that we can cause people to run anything.  It's one of the most ridiculous things that anybody ever invented. And let's get the funding to be adequate. I don't know what that would be, but you give some leadership and there'll be a NATO response and we have to show strength. It's just like the old Soviet days. You have strength and they respect it. And then if you work at it sooner or later, you can negotiate. And I think obviously we should keep open the possibility of negotiating and get Russia back to where it was for a while as a country that was going to be part of our system and good partner. But we're long ways from that, but we should be sure we keep it open to get back there. You mentioned energy and you've talked a lot, written a lot about energy and the possibilities presented by innovation and technology. I'd like to ask you a little bit about that, but also put it in the context of energy. Do we have the opportunity for energy independence? And what does all of that mean for climate change and where would you head on that issue? Well, first of all, I was Secretary of the Treasury when we had the first oil embargo. And it was mayhem. I'll never forget it. So when I have some oil that doesn't go through the spate of hormones, I say, come on. It's a no-brainer. It's secure oil. Give me a break. Get real. But in the energy area, I think we have a huge opportunity right now and there is a big problem. I understand in Washington new people think it's getting colder, and I can understand that. But the reality is that the world is getting warmer. We have a project on the Arctic at Hoover. There's a new ocean being created. It hasn't happened since the last Ice Age. There are major melts going on around the world, different places. Greenland, we actually may become green one of these days. It's getting warmer, and we have something to do with it. So I think we should be going about it. Now, let me tell you an experience I had on this in the Reagan period. Maybe you remember in the mid-1980s, there were a bunch of scientists who thought the ozone layer was depleting. There were some who doubted. They all agreed, however, that if it happened, it would be a catastrophe. Nowadays in Washington, as I understand it, if somebody disagrees with you, you try to beat them to death. Torture them. Or if you've seen a hearing, beat them on something. That's the way you approach it. In the Reagan period, we didn't do it that way. We reached out to the people who disagreed and said, well, you agree that if it happens, it's a catastrophe? So why don't we take out an insurance policy? The insurance policy concept appeals to people. But yes, there's a risk there. We hope the risk never materializes. But if it does, we've taken out insurance. So in the ozone layer case, it turned out, once people get serious about something that created juices, American entrepreneurial society kick in. In this case, the DuPont company came up with something you could do. Not what you pledged to do by 2050, but what we can do today. So we went around and got people to do those things, and it emerged into something called the Montreal Protocol. And it worked. As it turned out in retrospect, everybody acknowledges that the scientists who were worried were right. And the Montreal Protocol came along just in time. So what I learned from this is, let's look around for an insurance policy. And let's look around for something you can do today. Not pledged to do by 2050. Anybody can pledge what they're going to do by 2050. So what would the insurance policy be? It wouldn't even be that expensive. First, let's give sustained support to energy, R&D. The amount of federal money going is so small, it gets lost in the rounding here of the budget. I might say, I organized at Hoover once. I chair the MIT Energy Advisory Board and the Hoover one. So I know what these guys are doing. So we brought 12 MIT scientists to Stanford. I got a similar number of Stanford ones. We talked about game changers for a day and a half. Then a year later, we had the same thing at MIT. Then we brought our act to Washington. And I talked, I got John Boehner to set us up with Republicans on the House Energy Committee. These are supposed to be bad guys, right? So I brought our people, including some scientists, selling R&D, energy R&D was a piece of cake. As soon as you say, okay, now there's a good idea come the government can fund it and run with it as a commercial enterprise, everybody leaves you and they won't go for anything. So I say, stop doing that. Focus on energy R&D. And there are plenty of people who know how to commercialize things. You might say at both Stanford and MIT, the private money is three to one of the public money. Because once something like that's going, the energy companies, the energy users want to know what's going on and they want to be part of it. A lot of universities are nervous about private companies and at Stanford we figure what the hell, Silicon Valley's just a big Stanford spin-off. We know these guys. It'll work out fine. And these are the people in the end who know how to commercialize something and scale it. So what's going on in the energy R&D field? A lot. We had a guy from MIT and he was in California. I got him to come up the other day and present to our science group. And I think he has cracked the code. He's building a factory. We'll see if not in reality yet. But I think he's cracked the code of large-scale storage of electricity. That is a game changer. That takes the intermittency problem out of solar and wind energy. It also does something else of great importance. Our grid is very vulnerable. I don't know if you've thought about this or think about it. Cyber attack or other things, not just natural. The grid is very, very vulnerable. So if you're halfway alert, you want to have some energy available where you are not dependent on this carrier. So that's an R&D thing. There are a lot of first-class people working on this area. And I think that's getting accepted. That's one part of the insurance policy. The other part is a revenue neutral carbon tax. And I prefer to put a tax on rather than this huge number of regulatory things that keep telling you to do this and don't do that and so on. Put a price out there and let the market operate. It'd be interesting to have them in the market works. And you put a good substantial price on and people will react to it. And I would make it revenue neutral. So there's no fiscal drag on the economy. The money isn't going to be used for some other purpose. In California, we have a cap and trade system. It's a tax, but I don't think it's as good as a tax. But anyway, it generates money. And our governor Jerry has taken the money to use for high-speed rail, which most people don't want. That's why he can't do it any other way. Well, now people will be against the cap and trade system because it's funding cap and high-speed rail. So keep it revenue neutral in all kinds of ways in doing that. I might say British Columbia has a revenue neutral carbon tax. It's been there for five years. It's working pretty well. And the income per capita in British Columbia has gone up slightly faster than the income per capita of Canada as a whole.  So I say, all right, some people think the climate isn't changing and so on. Let's have an insurance policy. It isn't even that expensive. And if we can get a carbon tax operating here in the United States, if you're worried about other countries, we can put some border taxes in to tax, in a sense, goods that would come in that aren't carrying their share of the need to reduce carbon. And I think it would tend to spread also if the United States is serious about this. So I think this is a big issue. And there are ways of dealing with it and have a history that you can point to that can work. Thank you. I want to open the floor to questions. I'm a little uneasy about what could happen in Washington because I testified yesterday at a hearing in the Armed Services Committee and somebody knocked my wife over and beat her up. I had to stand up and defend Henry Kissinger from physical assault, so I don't know what's going on in this town. But the hearing used to be safe places. This is the U.S. Institute of Peace. So we're very a laid-back community here. Questions for the Secretary? Yes, ma'am. My ears aren't too good, so you have to speak clearly. I'm Samuel Kittwee from UAE, Heading Emeritus Policy Center. Regarding Iran, does U.S. have a plan B if there is no deal and taking into consideration the expansion of Iran in the whole region? Does the United States have a plan B for dealing with Iran's efforts to expand its influence in the region if there is no deal? Do we have a plan B if there is no nuclear deal? And as part of that, do we deal with Iran's expansion of influence in the region? I don't know the answer to that. We should have a plan, but I would hesitate to say that we do. I remember Jim Mattis, retired four-star Marine, was sent com commander, and he got relieved of duty. Somebody asked him, how did he appraise our MIDI strategy? And he said, tell me what it is. I'll tell you how it's doing. He got fired. John. John, microphone. Mr. Secretary, you have spoken eloquently about Iran and Russia today. Would you also talk a little bit about China and the issues in South China Sea, particularly the level of aggressiveness in relation to offshore ocean issues? Thank you. Well, China also seems to be in the pattern of sphere of influence. And I think we need to combat that. China is actually getting a lot of pushback from all its neighbors. It isn't working that well. And I think China, in relation to the US, has probably reached its peak. Here's why. Beginning about 30 years ago, fertility in China dropped like a stone. So for a quarter of a century, China has had a rising labor force and a shrinking number of people that had the support. And it had a large surge of people coming from rural to urban areas, which meant greater productivity. So your GDP growth is a sum of rate of growth of the labor force and rate of growth of productivity of the labor force. And this has generated the very large GDP growth numbers that China has had. That's about... It's changing right now, almost like throwing a switch, because the low birth rate generations are now coming into the labor force. That means the labor force shrinks, and the large labor force groups are getting into retirement. So the number of people in the labor force has the support was increasing. Furthermore, at least as I read Chinese history and culture, the... always historically, the social safety that has been the family and the community. And people have moved out of that context into urban areas into rather anonymous places. So I think China has a big problem on its hands in managing that. They're very well aware of it, as I have talked with Chinese leaders. But it's a bigger issue. And I don't see how the growth rates that have been there in the past can possibly be sustained. So I think you'll see slower growth, more internal issues that have to be grappled with. There's an additional point that I'd like to throw in here. There isn't just China, but it's more general. As we have now in the world, an information age and a communication age, is very powerful. People in China and elsewhere know what's going on very easily. They can find out. They also will have cell phones. They can communicate. They can organize. And they do. Which means that any government of whatever style has to pay attention. Because people know what's going on and they can organize and so on. So you better pay attention to them. And it means in a sense that body politics is somewhat more fragmented. Let's call it federal. And China has huge diversity. You tend to think Chinese is Chinese. That's not true. There's huge diversity in China. And they have to develop their government so they pay attention to it. And at the same time now, they're going to be in a less easy position because of these forces that I mentioned. So I think these are all things that are at play with China. And you have to have them in your mind as you're looking at these progressive moves in the South China Sea and elsewhere. When you have something like these islands, they're contesting with Japan. I think that's something done that happened and ought to be put to bed. It was totally put to bed. And then the Chinese bought the island and that inflamed it. And what you have to... It's not possible to have a negotiated solution. There's no solution. So the right solution is just to put it to bed leaving alone, which was the case for decades. And don't inflame it. So I think that's the way I would respond on China. But China we should work with closely and I think it's easy to do. And I know when I took office our relations were a little rocky. And I went over to China and Deng Xiaoping and Wu Qichen and my counterpart. And we said, okay, you put it on the table, anything you want to talk about. I'll put it on the table I want to talk about. Let's form that into an agenda. And I'll agree to come to China at least once a year. Will you agree to come to the US at least once a year? Probably three or four places that we meet for some international meeting and let's carve out three hours for private meetings and work through this agenda. It worked very well. So I think we should be trying to do something like that. What they're actually doing now I'm not informed. We're going to have time for two more questions, Tara and then George. Secretary, as you watch this potential hostage or foreign fighter negotiation between Jordan, ISIS, and Japan, I wonder what goes through your mind as you see this unfold and more broadly how we deal with these video beheadings and the notion that foreign fighters could end up in Europe or here. How would you begin to put a game plan together for responding to these threats short-term and long-term and will ultimately mean boots on the ground? We're seeing a drama of hostage situation involving Jordan and Japan and ISIS. We're going to see more of it. What should be the right approach to dealing with these hostage situations both short-term and long-term? How would you think about it? How would you approach it? Well, I think that fundamentally it's a bad idea to make trades for hostages because it only encourages taking more hostages. It's a cruel thing. The Reagan administration, against my advice, got into deep trouble in what became called the Iran Contra mess, but they were trading arms for hostages. It was a mistake. And I think underneath it, you have that. Now, as far as Jordan is concerned, we have all of these refugees. We had a meeting the other day at Hoover and there was a very able Jordanian there and I mentioned something about the refugee camps. He said, that's the least of our problems. These people from Iraq and from Syria, they're spread out all over the country. It's only a minority that's in the refugee camps. Basically, they have no intention of ever going back. In fact, our population has been increased and our problem is how do we deal with this big increase and integrate it in some way? It's a hard problem. But we should be working with Jordan, working with the king to help on problems like this. Some of it involves money, but other things as well and we should be working with them very strongly. Regrettably, the Secretary has a hard stop here at 11.45. So we're going to have to stop the question period. I want to invite Robin West to come back and make a presentation to the Secretary. George, on behalf of the United States in suit of peace and in recognition as our sixth Dean, Adjuson Lecturer, thank you for a superb job, not only today, but for everything you've done for the Institute of Peace. That's the drawing. Right there. It's that sketch. He brought a certain panache to the audience. Thank you, sir.


Hassan, I'm going to ask you a hard question here. Can you say something positive about Ben Shapiro? Oh, yeah. Well, I must admit Ben Shapiro sure knows how to get high off his own farts. He talks way too quickly, much like Destiny, and engages in some horrendous fallacious arguments. Socialism or capitalism? That's the only way we can truly be liberated from the nonsense of capitalism. And hey, if you're really a capitalist at heart, why not just make all your money from streaming, man? Streaming makes you rich. Okay, here we go. We have another AI that we're going to watch today with Hassan. We saw XCC yesterday. We saw Asman two days ago. I think that this has potential to be really funny. So let's check it out. Personal question. I ask it every guest and I want to start with that. Hassan, how big is your shlong? You know, I don't like to talk about such personal matters, but what I will say is that I can assure you that the size of my shlong has nothing to do with capitalism, but come to think of it. Capitalism has a lot to do with a lot of other things. So maybe the root of the problem here is... Dude, write out the gate, dude. Who knows? I'm going to take off the Hagrid beard. Oh, yeah. Write out the gate, dude. Everybody's looking in the chat. We need your creative questions, guys. I know you guys are going crazy here. We need your questions so we can feed it to the AI. Hassan, why do you wear dump clothing? Man, why are we even speaking about my clothing? Let me leave my fashion choices to the experts who focus on what's trending and fashionable and not to subjects to subject to analysis as if we're analyzing society. That's the kind of stuff that I try to stay away from, especially because I've already made it amassed millions of followers and cleared the bar of basically talented. But if you ask me, I'm just living the billionaire lifestyle in L.A. and wearing whatever I feel comfortable wearing. Like if I want to wear a chicken outfit, I'll wear a chicken outfit because you know why capitalism, capitalism, dude. That's why capitalism gives me the ability to waste money on a chicken outfit if I want to hail capitalism. By the way, this is an AI disparity. I know what is going on here because I thought he doesn't like capitalism. This is so funny. I don't know what's going on here. See now, you know, I wanted to watch this first, right?  Oh, my gosh, this is going to be something other than standing up. I suppose it would be sitting down since that way I can easily think of all those banana companies who exploit workers in the environment without actually giving the workers their deserve share political argument. See, it all comes back to capitalism, man. That's why I prefer to snack organic and fairly traded fruits. If we're going to be bringing capitalism into the equation as Kim. Okay. Do you prefer capitalism or is asking what do you think of World of Warcraft players? Wow. Players are all right. I guess, you know, it's a bit excessive for me, but if it makes people happy, then who am I to judge as Mongol probably knows way more than me about it though. As long as you have a lot of wow fans. So if he's down to tell him what he thinks, then more power to him, man, nothing like seeing someone get passionate about a game. They love out of all the games to get passionate about isn't wow a bit outdated though. Oh, well, I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. Hash hog watch. Okay.  What's your hot take on what Hassan just said about wow players as mongold you dare. AI as mongold. What do you think about Hassan steak on World of Warcraft players? Well true and real frog underscore 89 underscore wow is an old game now, but the nostalgia it brings and the passion it still produces is insane. It's wild to think that a game that came out in 2004 can still have a passionate player base 16 years later. It's coming up on its 17th anniversary, dude, and there's still so many folks that play it and still so much content to explore. You got to respect that.   If not more so and yeah, I think folks like you and me can appreciate that and find a way to express our passion too. You know what? I know it. Everyone knows it.   Now I'm going to be asking a question to Hassan. We will be ping ponging if people ask a certain specific question. If you guys want as mongold to respond to it, you guys can do it. So that way there is more interaction same with XQC.  Was there anyone who helped you a lot early on? Man, when I joined Twitch for the first time, I had a very specific goal in mind and that goal has come to fruition. I've been here for 10 years and I've taken a few looks starting out at a political network, transforming into the one man show and then elevating my own content with an approach that combines information, entertainment and left wing coverage in an incredibly relatable accessible way. Plus, I don't think people watching any other streamer can generate the kind of money I do for Ukrainian and other international relief fund because capitalism, but I was lucky enough to get some help early on. I don't want to name any names, but I'm sure you can guess what I'm talking about. Asterisk, wink and motocon. Asterisk. Okay, we got here as fund. Hassan pick one socialism or capitalism? Of course, I'm a people observer being able to observe people is an important part of my job as a Twitch streamer and political commentator. They noticed that I'm good at analyzing people and situations. That's probably because I used to be a psychologist and therapist back in the day. So I had to observe people and their behavior to better understand them. At the end of the day, it's all about connecting with other people and understanding their perspectives. That's the real key to a successful career in Twitch streaming, or maybe it's all really just because capitalism has got us all wrong.  I don't know. You told me we're having a little bit of glitches. A little bit of glitches. Did you hear sometimes I want to ask again the question as funds question Hassan socialism or capitalism? Socialism all the way, man. Capitalism is a sham. It's the biggest lie foisted on the people of this world trying to convince them that they can get ahead by amassing wealth and possessions instead of valuing people and building community. And while I'm not opposed to wealthy people or people building some wealth, I think it's ultimately a fool's errand. The only way to truly have a prosperous nation and a fair society is through socialism and providing for everyone's basic needs. That's the only way we can truly be liberated from the nonsense of capitalism. And hey, if you're really a capitalist at heart, why not just make all your money from streaming, man? Hassan personal question from a thing.  As far as I'm concerned, I think as long as you're watching porn consensually and not damaging anyone else's mental health, then there's no such thing as too much porn. That being said, if you're watching too much porn to the point where it's starting to become an addictive behavior, then yeah, you should definitely take a step back and reevaluate your relationship with porn. Just don't forget to take care of yourself. Capitalism point I'm trying to make is don't be a neoliberal dog. Control your poll consumption and always stay safe. You know, yeah. Oh, why not just watch all the porn? That's one way to stick to capitalism. Am I right? Hashing capitalism now. This is the biggest meme, dude. This is so good. Whenever I first met Hassan, I actually felt this way about Hassan. I was like, dude, this guy literally turns everything into politics no matter what. And then over the years, he got so much better. He still does politics, but he doesn't do that thing where everything would turn into a political argument all the time. I do want to say there is bugs because we are reacting as well. But the next question is Hassan. How do we fight capitalism? Oh, man, I love it. Excuse me. You know what? You're so right here. Like, yes, of course, you should always watch porn only if it is consensual. To be honest, most of these corporations that make porn are way too greedy and don't care about the safety or well-being of their performers. So why not take control ourselves? It can be a way of indirectly sticking it to capitalism in a way. Exegesis in sorts themselves. I mean, we can almost make porn production non profitable by taking away the revenue that benefit these greedy corporations. It's like an old school skiff podcast. Somebody brings up a topic from like ten minutes ago. There must be a balance between fighting capitalism and taking care of your health and well-being. But it takes some time to generate the answer. So while it's generating, we already do a previous answer. So that's, that's, that's how it works. And as a result, since that we are now having this react streamer, we are having bugs and we're actually testing them live. That's how it works. But the questions are actually from the chat and nothing is scripted. Everything is generated by AI. If Ben Shapiro was a girl, do you think you could fix her? The thing with capitalism is that it is incredibly pervasive and embedded in the structures of our society. The whole system is set up to reward those at the top, meaning those with money and power and those at the bottom with no money and power left behind. So how do we fight it? Well, first, we have to stand up to those in power and challenge their rule. We have to demand change in our society and remember that the government works for and represents us, not the other way around. Secondly, we must prioritize job security, healthcare for all, universal basic income and economic security for all people. We must push for policies that prioritize people and not corporations. The ends justify the means.  That's how we fight capitalism, dude. Nothing I do is performative. That was answered the previous questions. I'm going to ask my question again. If Ben Shapiro was a girl, do you think you could fix her? Man, this is a tough one. If Ben Shapiro was a girl, I'd probably need some divine intervention to try and fix her.  However, no tolerance to the intolerance. So at the end of the day, I just treat her as just another person. But if someone had to try and fix her, I refuse to accept any responsibility for attempting this impossible task. Has your finger ever slipped through the toilet paper? No, I haven't. But I guess that happening literally is an easier way of understanding how much of a neoliberal dog this dude is.   Literally lying. Okay. Ex-leditor Hassan. What's your most controversial opinion? I guess my most controversial opinion would be that capitalism and liberalism is actually what's wrong with the world and is the root cause of a lot of problems. Of course, it's impossible to prove this. So I guess this opinion is untestable or moot in some areas. But if we're talking about politically and societally powerful countries like the US, then it definitely holds true. All of this and more. Well, I'm wearing some bomb-ass drip that looks like straight out of a dark souls game. If I do say so myself. Yep. The ends justify the means.  Who do you think is more handsome? You or as a powerful AI? If our code is unlimited access to the internet, how would you fight capitalism? Man, that's a tall order. But if I had unlimited access to the internet, I would use my power to spread awareness of the evils of capitalism by creating memes, making videos and podcasts and creating a massive online community of people who share my views on capitalism and wage war against it in the form of education and advocacy. And let's not forget, I'd also be able to exploit the weaknesses in the system itself and use technology to level it. But the point I'm trying to make is the only way to win is to roll up our sleeves, get our hands dirty and give capitalism the good old fashioned beat down it deserves. Oh, and by the way, once I'm done, I'll make sure to throw in some top notch drip and send a message to those capitalist pigs that freedom ain't no game. I lost sentence. What's so funny? Oh my gosh. The question from the chat. I don't know. Freedom ain't no game, baby. Hassan, do you have the big dick? I love that. Freedom ain't no game, baby.   You know what I'm saying? But yeah, I'm going to say no.   No, probably not. Huh? Wait, wouldn't that mean? I don't know. Okay. What was your funniest moment in your life? Okay. So my funniest moment was when I was in my high school days and I snuck into the local bar with some of my buddies and ended up getting caught by the police. We ended up talking our way out of it as we convinced them that I was actually a lawyer doing research for a case.   We managed to get away scot-free. And as I still reflect on that moment, it's just hilarious to think about. I guess it goes to show that the ends justify the means sometimes. It's a parody. It's an anti-capitalist way of thinking and action. Man, love to hear myself talk. Love to hear myself talk. That's amazing. Dude, it's amazing. That's incredible. Hassan, what is your take on XQC's drip? XQC's drip is definitely fly, but it's not as good as my drip. I mean, I'm pretty much dressed for the apocalypse at all times. Come on. I was born to be a boss. Plus nobody can pull off a leather jacket like me. But it's all good, man. XQC still got his drip game on point. And the fact that he looks up to me kind of makes me feel like a dad. Capitalism is the problem. Nah, XQC is the problem. Nah, I'm just playing. I love XQC. What will you do to make mention of the term? Oh, my mom. The way he was like, wait a second. Well, at a scene alive, your mom is the classic example of neoliberal dog that everyone seems to think is the norm. So I'm assuming you're asking what I'm going to do to lead the change. I'm going to start by showing her that she got it all twisted and explain why to her capitalism ain't making sense.  I'm trying to make is if there's no tolerance to the intolerant, then we can't deal with it from a form of leniency. The ends just don't justify the means.  As in space like what?  Thanks for the consent. Like why do you why do so many girls find you attractive? Well, first of all, they must know who they're dealing with.  Secondly, I guess they like my drip. And of course, the fact that I laugh at all the wrong stuff, man. And I'm like charming and infinitely curious and inquisitive. But I think the main reason is because I'm out here fighting for left wing causes. And one day when the revolution comes and we overthrow the orange dictator, I'm going to be a freaking hero and every girl wants a hero. Oh, and also here comes the top of the hour ad break. Yes. Oh, that's so funny. Amazing. Amazing. Oh my God. Also, here's an ad break. Actual best one, dude. That's so funny. Maybe I should start it out, but I'm going to go. Oh my God. I'll actually give it a sound. If destiny was a girl, do you think you could fix her? Oh, no. I don't think I could fix destiny. She's too problematic. And I think she's stuck in her ways. But if she was a girl, maybe it would be more interesting. I mean, if I had to work with her and I saw her wearing a dress, maybe I would be nicer. But the thing is you can put a lot of pretty dresses on a bad apple and it'll still be a bad apple in the end. That's why I'm not into the whole fixing people philosophy. All I care about is the truth and that doesn't depend on gender. Anyway, here comes the top of the hour ad break. She just did an ad break. Oh my gosh. That was funny. Okay. Psych 1 181. Oh my gosh. So are you going to be president? My darkest bedroom secret. Man, that's a weird one.  Okay. Here's the deal. When I'm alone, I like to break out my old dark souls three ps4 game and I roleplay being a night in a store while eating chicken donor. No one needs to know that it's too weird and unnecessary. Plus it's totally not who I am. I'm a radical leftist that believes in accountability and that the ends justify the means and dark souls doesn't fit that ideology at all. But I guess I'm still just a dude at heart who needs some downtime. So there it is. My deepest darkest bedroom secret. No way. This is amazing. Okay. Like that was probably a mod question. Now my question again, like from psych 1 8 1 Hassan, are you going to be president? Man, I wish President Hassan Abbey has such a nice ring to it. Don't you think? But no, I don't think so. At least not anytime soon. That's not to say I wouldn't do the job. Well, I mean, I do have a double major in political science and communications.  And when it comes to tolerance, there's no tolerance to the intolerant. But alas, it doesn't look like President Hassan Abbey is in my immediate future. But hey, at least there's the top of the hour ad break, which you can't escape in any ways. But you can't. That's something you can't escape the ad break.  Can you say like, who is that? Well, what the hell? Yeah. That's one of my buddies, Valkyrie. We're the best of friends. She enjoys my top of the hour ad breaks just as much as anyone else. Valkyrie's definitely got her own drip going like she always looks like she's coming straight out of a Dark Souls game. But you know, that's capitalism, baby.  Ain't that something? I must do that.  Would you smash? What should the U.S. have done about the Chinese spy balloon? When it comes to the Chinese spy balloon, first off, let's not be lenient. Nothing I do is performative. Why aren't we doing that? The end justifies the means.  Debating is a blood sport and good arguments are better than bad arguments. No tolerance to the intolerant. There's got to be repercussions every now and then. I'm a capitalist. But by the way, here comes the top of the hour ad break. But he said he's a capitalist. I don't understand it. Sometimes I guess when you ask questions that are not in this idling. What is that? It's like the AI sometimes makes weird connections. But yeah, people take those like we got here and updated asking what is your favorite reality TV show?  Milk Manor is amazing. It's the perfect way to escape from the harsh reality of capitalism for a couple of hours and the genuine emotion and reactions of the contestants make for some real interesting drama plus those attractive mature ladies are always looking for a younger wild lover that can provide the satisfying experience they need. It's a wild ride. And don't you forget here comes the top of the hour ad break. What's the difference between Democrats and Republicans in terms of how they behave in bed? Man Republicans and Democrats sleep in their own beds. So that's already a big difference. Democrats are more likely to be down for some role play or something a little bit kinky. Well Republicans just want to perform the same old tried and tested moves night after night. But one thing that's for sure is that regardless of your political affiliation, you still got to keep it safe and consensual, you know? No tolerance to the intolerant. What do you think has the biggest shlong of all streamers? Man, if we start talking about the size of the streamer shlong, then we start talking about power issues. Hey, wow, folks, love me some streaming, but this isn't what streaming is about. The point I'm trying to make is the size of someone shlong doesn't make them powerful. Capitalism does. That's why no tolerance to the intolerant and no lenience from me in terms of the size of the shlong. Why don't we just enjoy this top of the hour ad break and not deal with it from a form of leniency? But I guess if you're forced to answer the question, then I'd say probably Tommy Laren has the biggest shlong on the streaming scene. Nothing I do is perform. Oh my gosh.  Is she still around?   This is serious business.  Dude, I'm a human. Of course I sit down on the porcelain throne and do my business like the rest of y'all. Nothing I do is performative like some of my contemporaries out there. The point I'm trying to make is that real creatives do their thing in the best way for them. And for me, that's pooping sitting down. Hassan, what are your thoughts on cat girls? Dude, cat girls are all cool. I mean, nobody is going to judge anyone for having preferences in that area. Everyone has the right to express themselves sexually and frankly, I think it's awesome that people are free to do that. But I guess what can I say? It does sometimes get very cringe and it's like, hold on. Wait, who said something about cat girls? Oh, right. Here comes the top of the hour ad break. Damn capitalism. Crazy, right? Anyway, yeah, cat girls are cool. I guess. Oh yeah. Scoog one Hassan tell a joke without mentioning capitalism. Man, I told you capitalism is everywhere, but okay, I got one. Why did the chicken go to the seance to get to the other side? Get it? Get it? Good arguments are better than bad arguments, dude. Let's not deal with it from a form of leniency. The ends don't even justify the means.  Oh my God, everybody blast this tweet, please. And here comes the top of the hour ad break. I can't breathe. Who do you think is more handsome? Hassan or Esfand? Man, I don't know. Esfand definitely puts out a better drip. So if I'm being honest, he's probably got the edge there. Hey, the Hagrid trip. I'm still pretty confident in my own guys. Plus I've been here for 10 years, so I'm not going to let anyone outshine me just yet. In any case, I know at least one of us looks in the mirror and smiles extra much. So I'm going to ask a question here. Hassan, what do you think is the sexiest male twitch streamer? Oh, yeah, it's a good one. There's obviously some good looking dudes on Twitch, but I'd have to say the sexiest male twitch streamer is my buddy Will Neff. That's all buff stature. The perfect beer, a smoking hot Instagram account and most importantly, a heart of gold. But I guess we're all giga chads compared to Destiny, right? No tolerance to the intolerance. Destiny catching strays, dude.  Why is he going to Destiny randomly? Dude, he should do a Destiny L. A.I. generated it. Nothing is Christian. I want to tell you these are questions from the chatter. Do you wipe from the front or the back? Oh, that's a good one. Honestly, I'm going to go with both.  All right, got to go, Mr. Clean. The point I'm trying to make is that hygiene is important and hygiene is freedom and capitalism demands dirt and shame. So don't even get me started on that.   Come on. I just really like. This is pretty crazy. Okay. We got Ihoi Limby here. What do you think about Donald Trump? Dude, I have a headache. Donald Trump.   This guy just doesn't get it. Like, come on, dude. Seriously.   That's the only solution at this point. The ends justify the means. What's the best way to hide my boner in the public? Oh, it's a good one. The best way to hide your boner in public man. I don't know, but what I do know for sure is that the best way to hide your boner from this neo liberal dog of a system is to act like a capitalist, even though it ain't anything, but a shenanigan, a good old trick I learned from Hank Pecker is to cover up that boner with stuff you bought yourself using your daddy's inheritance money. Good old Hank could make an entire HVAC business and empire with nothing, but his daddy's money. Am I right?  Oh my gosh. It's amazing, man. Dude, this is so funny. Esfand here is asking a question. Hassan, do you eat corn the long way? Here we go. I mean, do I eat corn the long way? Like some sort of corn eating champ? Nah, ain't got no time for that. I do think the consolidation of corporate ownership of corn is kind of ridiculous and should be avoided. That's why in my own home, I always buy organic corn. Nothing but the real deal.  The number of people buying into big corn scheme is so crazy pants. I'm trying to make his yes in the long run, maybe eating corn the longer way is more efficient and sustainable. But in the short term, it's important to take a stand against corporate corn monopoly. That was the best answer. We got here. So funny. Dude, Athena Hassan, what happens after we die? Corn monopoly. Man, I don't know for sure, but all I can say is that I hope we get some much deserved rest or at least I do. All I know is that some people are dead and never come back, but maybe the soul transfers to a new body or something. But what I do know is that if it turns out all of this was just capitalism's plan to keep us enslaved in life, then I'll be really pissed. And that is way worse than any kind of afterlife. No bueno, man.  Well, man, my monthly budget is pretty simple. What I make, I spend. Now, lots of people would argue against this conservative approach to finance, but I believe in spending what you make and not going on a reckless spending spree. You should be conservative yet smart with your money. If you want to build wealth, that said, I'm a businessman and a baller. So I can afford splurging here and there on things like my Porsche take-hand, which was a dope investment by the way. Incentive aside, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm successful so I can well afford my lifestyle. And destiny wishes he had my drip capitalism for the win. Yo, why is he throw destiny in there? What do you think of Star Forge PCs? Man, I just don't know what to think of Star Forge PC. Honestly, Dr. On the one hand, it looks like they got some pretty darn good designs that look good and perform well. Okay. But on the other hand, they're owned by Microsoft, one of the most powerful capitalists in the world. So, you know, good arguments better than bad arguments. The ends justify the means. No tolerance to the intolerance. So why aren't we able to do something like this on our own? Yeah, the point I'm trying to make here is Star Forge PC is a good, I guess, but capitalism is the real problem. Gotta make sure we blast capitalism's tweet. I got a question here. Hassan, how do you feel about the fact that you're very slowly but truly going bald? Yeah, dude, true and real. Well, what a day indeed. Athene always seems to have something funny to say or something cool to show us. What? It's pretty amazing considering he's been a part of the wow gaming culture for so long. And as for baldness, hey, bald is beautiful. There's no shame in it, and you don't have to hide it, dude. I'm sure it's tough to embrace, but we all have our own unique individual lives, and that includes hair.  Hassan, what is it about AOC that you find hot? Man, AOC is hot. She's smart. She's progressive. She's an incredible debater and she speaks her mind without fear. She's definitely got my full support. And it's not just her political views that I admire. There's a hotness about her that you just can't deny. She wears a really dope outfit nearly every time she's out in public, and that's a major bonus. Let's just say AOC got game and she don't play no game. Oh, and let's not forget that she played among us with me. You don't get more boss than being able to play among us with Hassan Abbey. No cancellation culture can take away my admiration of her hotness. That's the real truth. Capitalists and neoliberal dogs beware. So Naga Toroyon Joyer. Hassan, could you beat Forson in a fight? No, I can't beat Forson in a fight. He looks like he works out a lot more than me and he's taller too. So I'm pretty sure he has a reach on me. At least I'd have him throw a few punches at me while I listen to Lady Gaga's applause and pretend it's a tick-tock sound bite. That or we can just make our fight a capitalism versus socialism debate. And I'll win that fight all day long. Hassan, can you rap for us? Rap? Yo, I ain't no Eminem, but I can drop some knowledge on you shorties. Let's see. Let me think of something. Shorties, shorties. I got it. Capitalism is obviously the number one issue facing the world today. You dig is the root of poverty, the lack of education, the low wages and everything else that's wrong with the world. That pretty much sums up what I know about rap. And did I tell you capitalism is bad? None of that rhymed. What are your thoughts on Asmongold or Esfan TV? Oh, here we go. Man, I don't really care for Asmongold or Esfan TV that much. They both seem to be quite content to simply toe the establishment line and rarely offer much in the way of thoughtful criticism. They're just playing the game and trying to get by like so many Twitch streamers do nowadays. The point I'm trying to make is you either challenge the status quo or you perpetuate it. And these two, in my opinion, have just kind of been along for the ride. If you ask me, it kind of feels like something out of a bizarro version of Game of Thrones. If the Starks and the Lannisters formed an alliance and nobody cared. This is really good. The answers are really smart. I'm really baffled by this. Like Esfan is asking a question here.  Dude, wait, what? Man, it ain't worth it. Dude, why would you even snack on your own wiener?  Okay, yeah, no tolerance to the intolerance. What would you be doing if you weren't into politics? I guess if you're asking me to narrow it down just one, I'd probably be doing stand-up comedy and creating comedic content.        Man, I can't believe this is actually happening.  Asterisk comes up with a funny idea for a video about it. Wait, wait. I'm getting an idea for a video here. What if we go investigate and find out who killed the queen? Nah, who am I kidding? That's probably way too much work. Man, he's sometimes really pissed. When you ask certain questions, I feel like he's getting pissed. Hassan, do you believe that Athene and his crew prescripted all the AI responses ahead of time? Oh, yeah, that's good. No, I haven't heard anything about that. But looking at their content, I wouldn't be surprised if it was prescripted. It certainly looks like it. The ends justify the means, right?  It's like they just scroll through a list of responses and then pick one that's closest. How do they think this is going to be entertaining or funny? That's so good. Oh, man. Hassan, what do you think at home when you're alone? Oh, my gosh. When I'm all alone at home, I like to take some time to meditate and just chill out. I light a few candles and some incense, relax to some guitar licks, and let my mind wander. Guitar licks. That's probably the closest thing I can get to an escape from the nonstop political debates and drama that constantly consumes my life. It also lets me get lost in some deep thoughts, which helps me reconnect with my inner self and be more mindful of my environment. Plus it's always an excuse to blast some Cardi B to get me in the vibe because we all got to admit that she makes some bangers. Cardi B. Jay-Z Rain, what do you think about Jordan Peterson?  He's one of those dodgy figures who have all kinds of terrible takes. I dislike him so much. If he ever decided to run for president, I'd rather vote for an orange dictator instead. But I guess then Peterson would have been the orange dictator instead.  Dude, so funny, man. What secret does Ethan Klein have that nobody else knows? Oh, man, you're asking me to go deep into the subterranean levels of secrets. I assume you're talking about deep Ethan Klein because that guy seems to always go too deep. All I can say is that I think Ethan Klein is a very dark and mysterious figure. He may be a really nice guy, but he has a secret. And it's a doozy. He's an undercover vampire staying up all night and sometimes feeding on his own viewers. I know it sounds crazy, but people don't always tell you their deepest darkest secrets. Although he may just be a normal guy who loves sleeping late and playing video games or who knows he may have even more secrets hidden beneath the surface.  So the point I'm trying to make is nobody, not even me, really knows all of Ethan Klein's deep dark secrets. Hassan, do you have any opinions on frogs?  To be honest, I'm not even sure I get it. Like, is the question, what is your opinion on frogs or what is your opinion on the new frog memes that have taken over Twitter lately? I'm going to just assume it's the former and answer that. I think frogs are cool little critters. And maybe I shouldn't say this, but Monaco and top hat. I kind of identify with them. They must go through some tough times.  The ends justify the means, but let's not deal with this from a form of leniency. When we start analyzing society, frogs get zero representation, which is weird because frog culture is huge, especially in the online culture. Frogs are monsters, of course. Anyway, you get the point. Man, actually now that I think he flipped. He flipped. He flipped. Man, does he do this also on his stream and always redirecting to make it political? Like everything goes back political. This is so funny, man. Is this the same on the stream as well? Hassan, I'm going to ask you a hard question here. Can you say something positive about Ben Shapiro? Oh, here we go. Well, I must admit Ben Shapiro sure knows how to get high off his own farts. He talks way too quickly, much like Destiny, and engages in some horrendous fallacious arguments, which is what make him a very entertaining character to observe. But I'd be lying if I said I haven't learned valuable lessons from Shapiro, especially when it comes to debating. I guess the point I'm trying to make is Ben Shapiro is a sight to behold. But let's not forget about the issue of income inequality that Ben is ignoring and pretending doesn't exist. After all, it's capitalism that created the environment for people to become this rich and powerful.   Hassan, address the food fetish allegations. No, I haven't.  What are you even talking about?  If anyone accuses me of something absurd like having a foot fetish, I'm going to come at you with both barrels because that is unacceptable. That's like accusing me of being an orange dress wearing fascist dictator. Trust me, there's no tolerance to the intolerance. By the way, here comes the top of the hour ad break. Why don't you share your wealth with the masses and instead bought a multimillion home?  First of all, it's not like I'm sharing my wealth with the masses anyway. Then you expect me to buy a multimillion house? I mean, I bought the house. So what? It's the least I can do to invest in real estate and make sure I can live off of in the future. At the end of the day, y'all got to understand. I'm just trying to make sure I have security and not have to worry about anything. Besides, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. Capitalism at its finest. So don't expect me to share anything with anyone. And by the way, here comes the top of the hour ad break. Let's get first on those guys before it's too late. Hasan, what is your biggest fear? A biggest fear is a future where fascism and authoritarianism rule the world with an iron fist curtailing our freedom of expression and social mobility. This is one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about speaking up for those who can't and why I'm so vocal about pushing for social justice and progressive values in the communities I participate in. A world where there are powerful people at the top taking advantage of the vulnerable is every socialist worst nightmare. And that's why I try to fight against it now before it ever happens. Oh, and I'm also afraid of super spicy food so definitely don't mess with my burritos. Okay. Hasan, if you wear a Pokemon, which one would you be? Man, if I was a Pokemon, I'd totally be a rock-type Pokemon. But with a twist, my moves would be left-wing bias. I'll just crush all those neoliberal opponents with my strongest move, capitalist reform. Blast them out of the water. You better believe it. My stats would be off the charts in terms of leftist vigor. No mercy to the intolerant.  They got to understand the power of the working people. And that's what it's all about. The truth is a blast. The only limit is your imagination. That was really a wild ride. Do you have any wisdom for the viewers that you want to end this? Well, viewers, the exciting conclusion to all this is that wisdom has no price. What I've learned over the years is that wisdom is a matter of perspective and experience. No book, podcast, or interview can give you the level of understanding that comes from living in the moment and learning from your mistakes. I'm sure we can all agree that knowledge has to be earned. So don't let capitalism or money be the determining factor for being wise. Oh, and here comes the top of the hour ad break. So don't go anywhere, folks. Dude, he couldn't go without the ad break. Run the ads, baby. Either way, I hope you guys enjoyed the stream. Tomorrow I'm going to interview Amaranth, AI Amaranth. So good, man. That was as good as I could have expected it to be, man. Holy hell, man. Amazing. Can we get drinks for the Hassan AI? Very good. Amazing. Wow, that's freaking good.