Welcome to the podcast that takes apart Paul Krugman's New York Times column. Join us as Tom Woods and Bob Murphy teach economics by uncovering and dissecting the arrows of Krugman. Nobel Prize winner, newspaper columnist and destroyer of nations. It's time for Contra Krugman. Welcome everybody to another episode of Contra Krugman. I'm Tom Woods with Bob Murphy and several other wonderful people because we are recording this particular episode live from the Mises Institute for the Mises University summer program. For those of you who don't know, Bob and I have a weekly podcast that we do together in addition to my daily one and Bob's other one. We have one we do together every week called Contra Krugman and we refute the Krugman New York Times column every single week and it's fun. So you can check it out at contracrugman.com Well today we have special guests. Now you already know Peter Klein and Lucas Engelhard and Mark Thornton and they are here to help us take down Krugman. Now I want to tell you the only other time we've ever done this show in front of an audience was at the Mises Circle in Seattle in May. Krugman releases two columns a week Monday and Friday and that week on Monday his column was terrible. And I don't mean terrible wrong just terrible not relevant. Not something we could... It was also wrong. And it was also wrong. Not something we could apply Austrian economics to. Bob and I were what are we going to do? What are we going to do? The events coming up on Saturday but then Friday morning you know like a Christmas present under the tree with a big bow on it.  Best episode ever. This week Krugman released a terrible column on Monday. We thought well we know old Paul come Friday morning he's going to bail us out with an awesome column full of zingers and fallacies we can smash. Nope another terrible one on Friday. So for today... He's on to you I think. Yeah I think it's almost like he started to listen to Krugman. So what we've got instead is one of his blog posts. He can't restrain himself from saying things on his blog that we can use so we're going to use a blog post and use it as a jumping off point and we're going to jump way off once we get through the original topic and the blog post is the GOP's original sin dated July 18th 2016 and of course it will be linked on the show notes page those of you who are secretly doing the drinking game I'm about to tell you the show notes page contrakrugman.com slash 45 All right well it's only this let me look it's giant font that I've printed it out in and it only goes this far so the gist of it basically is this Krugman is talking about the supply ciders of the late 1970s early 1980s and supply side tax policy under Ronald Reagan and here's what Krugman has to say he says I'm not sure even now whether people who aren't involved in economic policy discussion understand that supply side wasn't a doctrine like monetarism or even real business cycles ideas I may think are wrong but which had and to some extent still have significant support from professionals in the field supply side economics never had any evidence behind it it never had any support in academic research it barely even had any support among economic researchers and forecasters in the business world it was and remains crank economics pure and simple with nothing going for it except political convenience yet 35 years ago the GOP was already willing to embrace this doctrine because it was politically convenient and could be used to justify tax cuts for the rich which have always been the priority and then Krugman goes on to say but given that the GOP has been enthralled to if we can even dignify it as a school of thought according to Krugman that is so at odds with reality is it any surprise that the GOP is in constant reality denial in all kinds of fields so that's your post from July 18th 2016 so we are going to say a little something about supply side economics because in fact when I do Q&A sessions from time to time I get this a lot do the Austrians engage with the supply ciders are their views coincident? is their overlap? are they different? so Bob I'm going to kick this over to you okay well thanks Tom this is actually another first this is the first time that there's more than one real economist doing the show oh oh oh alright I have to just I know people at home are like whoa that escalated quickly but you guys need to understand Tom it misses you you guys are feeding he has the biggest eagle already stop telling him how great he is and how much you love his stuff you're making it worse alright so let me just get some context here as usual when Krugman says something the effect that there is no evidence whatsoever for X it means there's a lot of evidence for X and I'm just going to be very particular in my definitions if you call me on my I won't say lie but exaggeration of saying things that do not coincide with the truth put it that way so on this issue again what does he mean what he means is by supply side economics is the proposition that every reduction in tax rates will bring forth more absolute dollars in revenue then okay that's true there's not much evidence for that proposition even though in case you don't know this if you look at what happened in the Reagan Revolution it is true that federal revenues went up alright so when you're trying to understand why did deficits explode in the Reagan years it's not because of quote tax cuts for the rich it's because Reagan you know in congress spending rise faster than revenues did so make sure you're familiar with those basic facts but more generally I actually worked for Arthur Laffer for about a year so I saw even his old research papers Laffer he's one associated with supply side economics the Laffer curve and so on his claim was not that every tax rate reduction brings in more revenue he was just saying you can't use a static analysis you have to take into account a rate reduction changes incentives enlarges the tax base and so a static analysis will exaggerate the loss in revenue he wasn't saying that every tax cut pays for itself then let me just also talk about the issue of there's no evidence this is all just crank stuff again that's totally wrong so if you look at for example just google dynamic scoring CBO you'll pull up a report from the congressional budget office talking about dynamic scoring and how they do that in their assessments and what is dynamic scoring means we don't use a static analysis when we take into account like oh how much if we repeal the affordable care act what would that do to the budget deficit over the next coming years to say we're going to score it dynamically means we take into account if we change tax rates then that might change behavior and so that will affect how much revenue comes in so the CBO is not some crank organization that's the standard go-to place that assesses changes in policy Greg Mankiw and a co-author whose name I don't know how to pronounce so I'm just going to not say it they have an MBR paper on tax cut changes and how you do dynamic scoring so Greg Mankiw again not some crank economist in Krugman's world but you say alright he's a republican okay Christina and David Romer had a famous paper that came out in 2007 the title of that was the macro economic effects of tax changes showing you know they did some new approach and they found that oh there's large impacts from tax changes on economic behavior alright so this we say this a lot Tom and I had a hard this point a lot but what do progressive liberals want to do to stop climate change they want to have a carbon tax why because a tax affects behavior what do they want to do if they want to discourage people from smoking oh put a big tax on it and so what would happen if you want to discourage people from working why wouldn't you put a big tax on that right so this idea that oh it's some crank notion that raising tax rates on something discourages that activity far from being a crank notion that's standard stuff and I've just listed places that take that into account okay also I think the 1920s is a fairly good example of how this effect is is evident the tax rates were the top marginal rates were quite high in the early 1920s following World War one so a lot of people were not exposing their wealth to these tax rates or they were putting a lot of money in tax free municipal bonds or whatever and then when Harding and Coolidge reduced the rates they were willing to expose their their money to these rates and you did see this other activity now of course obviously we don't care that the government gets more revenue we're not saying that's a good thing we're just saying if Krugman says something that's wrong it should be refuted so that's that's what we're trying to do here now from here we want to jump off to some other topics I do want to give our distinguished guests an opportunity to jump in Peter you're you seem pretty eager so Peter Klein wait should we start with the Krugman now you're in our house I was going to say I mean I rarely agree with Bob Murphy but but he's right that a lot of the specific policy proposals that Krugman seems to attack in this column are ones that almost every mainstream economist would agree with but I believe in farther and say as these guys know and as you know if you listen to this podcast Krugman is right and and he's very slippery and cagey and what he does so in this this blog post on the one hand he's right that supply side economics is not a school of thought like Austrian economics or Keynesian economics with a distinct set of theoretical doctrines the label supply side economics just loosely refers to a set of policy proposals that were you know that many people suggested in the 1980s as ways of spurring economic growth for example tax cuts for not only personal income tax cuts but corporate income tax cuts simplifying tax rates and so forth but you know if you think about it more broadly the label supply side economics essentially means policies that address the supply side of the economy rather than the demand side right Keynesian economics says the only thing that matters not only for short-term economic fluctuations but even for long-term economic performance is the management of aggregate demand and fiscal policy and monetary policy are all about aggregate demand managing the demand side of the economy well a lot of economists in the 1980s as the Keynesian consensus was crumbling said well you know maybe the supply side of the economy matters too maybe we should think about policies that affect not only consumption but also production you know big shock you know things that discourage work things that discourage corporate investment ought to matter but what is also part of sort of supply side economics is things that all progressive economists seem to favor too like you know policies that would improve performance would improve the productivity of companies and industries investments in education and infrastructure training job training and so on these are all supply side policies and Krugman of course is in favor of all of these as are Obama all sorts of policy wonks on the Democratic as well as the Republican side so I mean depending on what you mean by supply side economics yeah pretty much everyone agrees that the supply side matters this is just sort of a rhetorical trick I think by Krugman to make supply side economics sound like it's something other than it is so he can knock it down as being unscientific that was even better than what you said Bob that was really good you should have me on the show more often maybe we should go back just having one trained economist on the show monopoly is good yeah I'm glad you pointed that out Peter just where that term supply side comes from it was a reaction against Keynesianism which was demand side management and also I can't help but point out Krugman taking his shot that oh yeah the only reason supply side had any currency was because the politicians loved it not like there's any danger of that happening the government needs to spend more money the politicians are like oh get that out of here let me suggest for the people who are listening to the recording when this episode is released they might not know Peter Klein as with Baylor University which is not implicated in anything Peter says of course Lucas is with Kent State University and Mark is here at the Mises Institute and Mark you want to jump in sure one thing Krugman did say that's correct is there was really a small number of supply ciders there was three guys Arthur Laffer, Jude Wyninski and one other guy who wrote books on supply side economics no one in academia really calls themselves a supply cider and the other thing I'll point out is I have a paper in the review of social economy back in 1986 on supply side tax cuts in the 1920s and it showed that the economy reacted very favorably and very quickly to the four tax cuts that occurred during the 1920s I think one thing I'd add to what's been said so far is the supply side policies okay they're associated with a very small group of people but they're not just isolated in this group either I think of when I was back in graduate school one of the first things I learned in macroeconomics were doing some growth theory or something like that we're looking at how we should tax the solution they came to was that taxing capital income is terrible it destroys the growth of the economy I suggest that maybe we should cut capital gains taxes that kind of thing cutting the taxes that we normally think for the rich is paying is a good thing for growing the economy and it wasn't a supply cider teaching me this it was a very mainstream typical guy at a state university so I'm baffled by the way on corporate tax rates as I'm sure most of your listeners being highly educated from listening to you would know the US has among the highest corporate income tax rates in the developed world even including some developing countries I remember when Bernie Sanders a few couple months ago was talking about making the US more like Denmark and Hillary Clinton said no Hillary Clinton said I can't remember they were arguing about who could be the most pro Scandinavian and who could make America look more like Scandinavia I remember tweeting sort of a smart algae tweet you know Senator Sanders yes the US should be more like Denmark I forget the number Denmark has a corporate income tax rate of about 20% the US has one close to 30% I said yeah let's be more like Denmark cut the corporate income tax and he retweeted that no doubt right sure he did by the way episode number six of Contra Krugman we take on the Bernie Sanders shouldn't we be more like Denmark objection so contra Krugman dot com slash six a little trivia about that Tom and I were concerned we're like we don't know anything about Denmark but we're like but neither Krugman so let's do this that's a fair fight all right I think it would be interesting now to use this as I say we use this as a jumping off point because sometimes when Krugman gives us thin gruel like this we think well let's make this into a broader teaching moment for the listening audience and one thing we might be able to talk about is free market economics in general as opposed to Austrian economics in particular there might be people who want to know well yeah I believe in free market economics why are you so devoted to this particular school of thought isn't it really all the same don't we all favor something you know all the same sort of thing and one of the questions I get a lot is what's the difference between the Austrian and the Chicago schools for example so I guess we could we could we could take this in terms of let's give some specific examples but also talk about why it does matter you know why free market is not enough maybe that's the the title of this episode free market is not enough anybody want to jump in on that by the way you know what won't be not enough the Contra cruise right get to that later not everybody knows that joke yet we'll ease them into it this is good we can tell which of you listen to the podcast you're laughing at those awkward segues we know you listen well segueing from the supply side thing I went to the first federal society conference at the university Chicago law school in 1983 and little that I know but I was supposed to be up in the dorm room with one of the law students and it was bill after we who is a art laughter the supply ciders nephew and we debated the entire weekend that I was there about you know he was he was saying you know what do you have to call it Austrian economics just free market economics is just like supply side I said well no it's not just like supply side there's no business cycle theory for example and I said you know Austrian support a real gold standard he said oh the supply side are supported to but they support the phony gold standard so this went on and on and do you mean like you're shaving and he's arguing with you yeah pretty much yeah pretty much just would not let it go but there are a lot of obviously there's a lot of differences in methodology can you explain the difference in gold standard because that's a good good example what does it mean when some people say they're for gold standard but you're saying oh that's the phony what do you mean by that well Austrians generally support we call the true gold standard where there are actual gold coins in circulation and in bank vaults where it's a physical amount of gold that where the dollar is defined as a physical amount of gold as a matter of fact we had an article on this by Frank Schousteck on Mises.org this week if you missed that the supply ciders at the time advocated having a gold price standard where gold would be at $400 an ounce this was obviously a long time ago and the government would supply or demand gold in order to maintain that price of $400 an ounce so it's a price fixing scheme and there's a lot of different problems associated with that but it's much different because it's a government managed system not a market managed system. Well to play up on what we were discussing before about supply ciders I mean again the term free market economics makes me a little bit uncomfortable because free market economics is a scientific discipline that is value free Austrian economics is value free even though many people trained in Austrian economics support free markets because Austrian economics helps us to see how free markets are better for human flourishing are better for overall well-being than controlled markets but I kind of don't like the term if you met someone who said well I'm a I mean you would be a little bit suspicious like well wait a minute you're mixing kind of the type of study you do with the conclusions that you reach I mean defense support for the free market is a conclusion of Austrian economics and many other kinds of economics plus some basic assumptions about human flourishing namely that we think it's better than human suffering right but economics per se is not really a free market thing and of course I know what people mean when they say free market economics and it's I don't mean to make it sort of more harmful than it is I just want to clarify that there are a lot of people who say I'm a free market economist what they mean is I support free market policies for various reasons but they don't use economics in a sort of very careful way or they're not engaged in economic analysis directly they just have an affinity for free market policies maybe for other reasons let me play devil's advocate here a little bit about teaching I mean I know you probably you don't do introductory courses but if you were and the subject of so-called externalities came up so we have air pollution or the guy with bad breath or whatever and we have externalities your approach would not be to say so now I'll show you why this means that government needs to do this you wouldn't do that because you're a free market economist right you would teach it to them in a certain way that would not include now let's make the defenses for what we all know is necessary government intervention you wouldn't so therefore you're a free market economist okay fine if free market economist means good economist rather than fair enough we're not saying that then I'm all for it all right we get that settled while we're talking about the distinction between Austria and Chicago school another huge example to show that it really is important why people if they say I'm in the Milton Friedman in the Chicago school why do I care about Austrian per se a huge difference is their approach to monetary policy as Mark was saying and beyond just saying okay let's have a real gold standard or versus a phony one their explanation the Great Depression so Friedman and Anna Schwartz famously said the Great Depression was caused because the Fed didn't inflate enough that through the 20s anytime there was a hiccup in the economy the Fed rushed in with new liquidity and got it going and that's all that needed to happen but for various reasons somebody died and so on and there was a power vacuum at the Fed it was asleep at the wheel and it amazingly is sat back while broader monetary areas collapsed in the early 30s and if only the Fed had come in and inflated more then we wouldn't have had the Great Depression whereas the Austrians it's almost the exact opposite Murray Rothbard famously arguing that the Fed was inflating in the 20s that's what blew up the stock bubble which then had to come crashing down and that's what caused the Great Contraction in the early 30s so there I mean that is a huge example of a difference we're not just nitpicking on methodological issues though we are happy to nitpick on methodological issues also in many ways Austrian economists Chicago school economists other people who would identify with sort of different free market movements we agree on a lot of analysis and policy especially at the microeconomic level but we Austrians are more consistent right so we take our price theory our value theory our understanding of markets and we use that all the way through as we're talking about macroeconomic phenomena money business cycles growth and so forth there's a lot of other economists they sort of flip it's like if you ask even a lot of Keynesian economists to talk about you know the market for shoes they would understand it in a way that's not totally different from the way we Austrians would understand it and they would say yeah of course the market can produce the right quantity and quality and variety of shoes and could be priced in such a way that many different people can buy shoes of different kinds and so forth but then you say well what about money oh well money is totally different the market can't produce money because of some hand waving you know I in Rand would say blank out right or what about other goods and services what about so called public goods what about lighthouses and what about you know generation of information or scientific research or national defense right Austrian economists will often say well let me analyze that using the same kind of theories and methods and techniques I would use to analyze the shoe market although of course there may be important institutional differences where as a lot of mainstream economists even Chicago and other kind of free market types will say oh well wait a minute you know now I've got to use a totally different kind of model or I start with the assumption that well of course the government has to supply money of course the government has to supply XYZ because it's just a totally different thing from other goods and services about the question about monopoly theory differentiating Chicago and Austria and where does that come from why do they not have the same why don't they reach the same conclusions about monopoly that somebody like Rothbard reaches in man economy and state okay well the Chicago school their monopoly theory their similarities between their theory and the standard theory and Austrians basically mainstream economists will argue that it's either government interventions monopoly privileges granted by the government or it's specific market conditions that are unique to a particular good or industry that allows for monopolies to exist allows for market power to exist Murray Rothbard's analysis building on Mises's analysis of monopoly basically Rothbard argued that all monopolies are created by government intervention in the granting of monopoly privileges in the economy so it's there's important differences obviously between the two Rothbard argues that that basically you cannot generate a monopoly in the free market I think another way you could say that is a label some people use instead of Austrian economics is causal realist economics because Austrians believe in trying to trace out cause and effect throughout the economy which is why we don't use a lot of math right and we also are interested in explaining real markets the real economy neoclassical economists including Chicago economists are more interested in unrealistic models of the economy especially this horrible thing that we need to get rid of so called perfect competition so the perfect competition model has been an albatross around the necks of economists for many years and I think Chicago school types they hold up this perfect competition this perfectly competitive situation as an ideal and so to them monopoly is like a dirty messy corruption of this ideal state and so yeah we don't like government in general but we do want the government to try to take away monopoly and these other things and make us more like perfect competition whereas Austrians recognize there's no such thing as a perfectly competitive market you know all sellers have a product that is somewhat different from that of other sellers not to be too technical as Mark said the way Rothbard puts it all sellers have a downward sloping demand curve and so unless you get a special privilege from the government right we can analyze you just the same way we analyze any producer we don't need a separate monopoly theory to go to add on to our competition theory except in the case where the government gives you an exclusive grant there's a really good chapter on this subject of perfect competition that I remember years ago I really enjoyed it really helped me understand what the problems with it were and it's in this obscure book by Milton Shapiro I think it's called the foundations of the market price system something like that one of the last chapters you can find it online at Mises.org just really demolishes that perfect competition model say well are you done with that I'm done with that but I have another thing to say it's my show too today you're actually making some good points we should write this on the calendar actually I stole that joke from him when he used that against me a few weeks ago so don't boo me that was his joke no boo him for using my joke from two weeks ago alright so this reminds me again another big difference and you might say I can imagine some people hearing this and saying okay so you guys are the real dogmatic ones the Chicago school at least acknowledges the possibility that there could be a role for government to combat pollution or to build you know nuclear weapons and so on because it's true you can't trust politicians to make shoes but give them nuclear weapons that makes a lot of sense but on an issue where I think Austrians are quite reasonable and have common sense and the Chicago school is very exaggerated has come to like financial markets and Eugene Fama guys like that put forward what's considered the efficient markets hypothesis and as a hypothesis and a benchmark to start the analysis in the classroom that's great that's a good starting point but it leads to absurdities in practice where for example as of 2009 and 10 there are several people out of that Chicago school tradition who say there was no housing bubble because bubbles can't exist by definition or you give me an operational definition that could do anything because if we were in a bubble and everyone knew it then the bubble would pop like that's the kind of argument they use and you understand there's a certain logic to it saying how could it be that we all know assets are overpriced because then wouldn't we sell them but then they just move on and say okay so therefore stop telling me that low interest rates are fueling asset bubble because that doesn't mean anything to me when clearly I think Austrians recognize no the fed pumping in money has something to do with why markets go way up and then crash and they don't just have this almost tautologist way of just inoculating the market and saying that can't be there must be something else going on here one example I'd like to use to differentiate the mainstream from the Austrians in terms of competition and monopoly about 100 years ago people started making automobiles and colas coca-cola for example and there would be in every little town in every big town there would be people who were building cars by hand one at a time so you'd have two or three guys in a garage making parts putting together into the engine in the car likewise with colas people were making up their own recipes and selling colas and there were thousands and thousands of these automobile companies and as well hundreds and hundreds of these soda companies all over the place and that's what mainstream economics likes they like an unlimited number of producers out there in the economy with no effect no ability to affect the market price and so on nowadays of course we have just a couple of automobile companies and just a couple of automobile companies here in the united states so now we have a small number of sellers and the mainstream opposes that because that creates market power or monopoly power so they would like the initial stages where you've got thousands of individual firms they don't like what exists today in their firms despite the fact that everybody knows that automobiles are so much better nowadays and relatively inexpensive so they like the early stage they don't like the current stage but austrians view the whole thing of the industry starting and consolidating improving the product reducing the relative price of automobiles over time so what we're doing is competition you know where else there'll be a small number of cola sellers the contra cruise you betcha do we want to tell them what's going on here I kind of think we're supposed to I guess we have no joys at this point October 9th through the 16th of this year Bob and I are hosting a six night cruise a board Royal Caribbean's Liberty of the Seas we can believe that we love you all to think that we planned it that way but if only Bob were that competent we might be able to we have so much fun stuff planned for it and you can visit contracruise.com to find out about it and then tell your parents it's very important for my education that I go on this cruise and we'll see if we can outfit you but the key thing is the awkward segue that's the whole thing how do we bring up the cruise during the show we just come up with these ridiculously absurd ways like we were talking about Brexit and I said Bob you know something you would not want to secede from the contra cruise see that's the thing so on the cruise we're actually going to give a prize to the person who has the best most classic transition I mean you don't really have to promote the cruise when you're on it but you've got to tell that joke in order to get the prize so anyway contracruise.com we're all going on the cruise for free aren't we panelists? Yeah I'm sorry the audio seems to have gone out just there sorry let me add one thing I've noticed this could just be because it's a small sample size in terms of Chicago people I know but doesn't there seem to be a temperamental difference between a lot of Austrians and a lot of Chicago people the Austrians if you were to go out for drinks with them and talk to them about their views their view would be that the state is evil it's evil it's not like let's see if we can help them to fine tune it and make things work for us better it's evil and we have to oppose it but if I took Chicago people out they would you know they would say well you know a lot of times the government is full of a bunch of jokers isn't it and they sure do a lot of things that are silly and wrong and private solutions do seem to work but and even David Friedman who's a very smart guy and I like him but he's got Chicago influences he's an anarchist and even he doesn't really you don't get the sense he just hates the state so what do you think the source of that is where's the direction is it that Austrian economics makes you this way or is that you're already this way and that draws you to Austrian economics it sounds like Tom's saying we're a bunch of haters doesn't it of evil I don't know the answer to that but you're right there is a difference in temperament I think a lot of Austrian economists at least those of us in the room here I would say we're very good at doing technical economics but what really attracted us to this field of study was some kind of passion or really a desire to make the world a better place and to understand how the world works and we really do have this kind of drive it's really a big deal we think about it all the time there are a lot of economists even as you say economists who are sympathetic to free markets who do economics as a nine to five job I mean they're kind of technicians or technocrats who are interested in doing modeling and collecting data and solving little clever puzzles and things but I don't think they have that same drive or passion now whether that's self-selection or whether as you say there's something about studying Austrian economics that makes you more passionate I don't exactly know but I'd like to have more people studying Austrian economics so we can do that experiment and I don't think their people take a week off in their summer to come to Alabama to study their kind of economics but I don't think that's going to work for you all so if you felt like applauding you could hey yeah it could be some of you were like yeah tell me about it you know I think just an anecdote to follow up on what Peter was saying when I was in grad school so I was at NYU and it was a very international program and it was funny the one American other American guy and we were like studying for the things that we hadn't been prepared mathematically for the first I've been thinking we were going to get but it's we were watching it was the Olympics that year and we were watching over this Italian woman's house and we were sitting there watching and these are all my first year classmates and I was just making conversation I said something like okay guys they were really into the Olympics like more than I was and I said if you could either win the Nobel Prize in economics or win a gold medal in some Olympic event which would you choose and they were looking at me like that was the dumbest question gold medal of course that surprised me where as you know there I was nerdy and thinking you know well no I went into the life of the mind or whatever you know I could have been a star athlete but I chose not to you know so but that just kind of I was making a conversation but I was surprised by how they were just like that's not even close why would you even ask that that to them like Peter was saying it was yeah this is interesting my government is going to fund me to go study and I'll come back and help the central bank and you know do so they thought they were helping and so forth but it was not that they were out there they changed the world I don't think that's not why they went into economics I also wonder back to the question of why is it we really think government is evil right compared to the Chicago guys I wonder how much of it is the influence of Murray Rothbard too being a great Austrian economist doing the value free stuff but also having his like libertarian philosophy writings that a lot of us have read where we see property rights as not just being something that gives us a nice outcome but that is actually like morally good violations of these rights are actually evil right it's not just all making the economy less efficient than it could possibly be but you're actually violating people's rights and we get enraged by this I got another thing on that that we when we study markets right we really make a sharp distinction between voluntary interaction peaceful cooperation among people and violent interaction you know if I punch Murphy in the face which I've been tempted to do many times you know I mentioned this in my lecture yesterday we wouldn't refer to that as a negative externality right we would haul me off to the slammer or whatever I think a lot of mainstream economists including Chicago economists they don't recognize an intrinsic distinction between voluntary interaction and coercion and they would say oh yeah well we can do we can apply our models to punching Bob in the face that's just another outcome it lowers Bob's utility it may increase Peter's utility in fact Ronald Coase the great Chicago economist Ronald Coase was very explicit about this he wanted to banish the notion of causation altogether from economic analysis and he said look it's no different you could say yeah Klein caused Murphy's bloody nose by punching him in the face but you could also say Murphy caused his own bloody nose by his failure to duck at just the right moment and analytically those are really identical whether Klein should have to compensate Murphy for his injury or not really just depends on who could have avoided this harm at a lower cost if Murphy could have ducked more easily than I could have withheld my punch then it's his own fault but I think this ties into what you're saying that they don't view that kind of a situation as any different from tax policy and pricing or purely voluntary buying shoes and so forth we really do see a difference on this point, not the point of him punching me the broader point he's not setting up a strawman there if you guys have never read this you should go look at the economic analysis of crime from a Chicago school point of view and they will be quite explicit like doing a cost benefit analysis they'll get mad saying a lot of people think when you analyze the cost and benefits of certain policies about crime to not count the utility to the thieves so in their mind they're saying you have to be fair and if you know muggers get a thrill from mugging people besides just the money that goes into it so that's a benefit from mugging to be offset of course by if there's people out there who don't like being mugged well then you take that in account too we're being fair and balanced but it's not a strawman he's setting up and there is a certain logic to that where you say no we're being value free who are we to say that the people who have the money in the first place because they went out and earned it you get the logic of what they're doing but it's kind of freaky where that ends up leading especially if it's involving a punch to my face I feel very strongly about that no strawman I mean what do you think I am Paul Krugman but couldn't they make an argument that they're the ones who are being value free and the fact that we refuse to acknowledge the utility to the thief means that we're sneaking in an ethical proposition there that only the utility that's lost by the victim is worth counting isn't that making an ethical or likewise the fact that a lot of our analysis kind of takes for granted private property I could probably find some ethical sneaky ethical assumptions even in Austrian economics am I wrong I know I'm wrong I want to know why I'm wrong I think we could weasel out of your objection and be a little bit more technical and say well Austrians consider as relevant to this sort of policy assessment only valuations that can be demonstrated in action right and if we're talking about a monetary economy things that can be priced in the market and so forth so we would say yeah I mean Bob says or I say I get utility from punching Bob that's not something that we can really price out so in other words we know that the fact that Bob did not you know punch himself or bring him forth bring himself to me to be punched we can make a statement that Bob prefers we can observe that Bob prefers not being punched to being punched that's enough the fact that Bob might say in an interview later or a survey oh but yes sometimes I actually do like to be punched we would say that's not really relevant scientifically that doesn't matter that's why we only look at people's you know we only try to infer well-being from what people do in situations of voluntary exchange that is such a good answer I feel better already about Austrian economics that's good this is a kind of a weird episode let me let me make sure that we're not setting up a storm so in reference to your point of your right time and that's exactly what they would say they're saying yeah we're not bringing in value judgments and they would think they're giving a more solid footing to the proposition that theft should be illegal so the way they would do it is to say look if a thief breaks into your house and takes a $100 television set then the thief is up $100 worth of wealth and the owner's down or even if you get more specific say it's not really worth as much to the thief because you know he's got to go resell it somewhere and it's a stolen good and things like that so at best that's a pure transfer but now if thievery is allowed like that then people are going to have to waste resources having more locks and setting up security cameras so that is the reason a mainstream economy would say using the benefit we can show why widespread theft is a bad thing and so we want to enact policies that discourage it blah blah blah but that's I think a lot of Austrian libertarians that reject what they would call crude benthamite utilitarianism Murray Rothbard in particular said yeah you might be able to begin to come up with the right answer using that framework but then you've lost your moorings and you're going to end up possibly miscalculating and then justifying something that actually is morally reprehensible whereas coming from he would say a natural law tradition deriving rights in that fashion is much safer and more likely to lead you to what the correct answer is so it's not an arbitrary thing we kind of just know if your cost benefit led to the fact that yeah it's fine to go drown kittens for fun and there's nothing morally weird about that you would kind of say that can't be right we got the wrong answer and so I think Rothbard would say so why would you put your eggs in the basket of this crude calculation when you know it might go awry and you need your sort of common sense moral intuitions to check that in doing policy analysis we're acting not only as Austrian economists but also as human beings who have ethical judgments and who hold particular values I have no problem whatsoever with somebody saying well you know you think you shouldn't punch Bob Murphy in the face you've snuck in some ethical judgments into your value free analysis I'm like yeah I did so what yeah of all things to sneak into your analysis not punching Bob it's weird that Austrian economics rests on the foundation that you can't hit me how about that how about that all right listen I think if I may summarize what everyone's been saying the supply ciders had more to say for themselves than Krugman gives them credit for that's really what we've been driving at for most of this this late morning but we did use the column to jump up to talk about some other things that I think are on the minds of some folks here you've been talking about mostly Austrian economics all week except when there have been some comparative talks and you may want to know well what are the differences and you know is it I'll have to use the term free market economics is it enough to be a free market economist or is there more to think about here so I want to thank Mark Thornton, Lucas Engelhardt, Peter Klein and you know what I'll even thank Bob Murphy what the heck right if you can't hit him thank him all right check out our show notes page we'll link to the column and we'll try to link interesting related to what we were just talking about contrakrugman.com and subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher so that you can hear our smackdowns of Krugman in weeks when he gives us something to smack down so thank you very much everybody appreciate it thanks for listening to Contra Krugman subscribe to the show for free on iTunes or Stitcher at contrakrugman.com you'll also find detailed show notes pages, our blog books by Tom and Bob and more at contrakrugman.com see you next week


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's case of breaks.com coming at you with 2020 Panini mosaic football four box cello edition Right here. So we've got these four box right here. There's 48 cello packs. We're about to do ladies and gentlemen So buckle up. This is break number three. There was an early bird special right here If you were one of the first 10 to buy spots straight up, you've got a chance at the extra spot right there The early bird gets the worm Let's roll it. Let's randomize it five and a one six times one two three four five and a one Richard Cromwell, congrats to you. You are the early bird that catches the worm Richard Cromwell, that's that sounds like royalty All right, so let's get all of your names in here now one spot gets you two teams So we got a double up. Oh, oh Like Sir mix a lot so there's the double up right there and now we can roll it and randomize it Two and a one three times for each list for names and teams. Good luck one two and three rich Cromwell says I do feel royal sometimes There's Ryan Redman down to Matt a few Matt Lieber's right there after three. All right three and out for the teams one two and three Giants down to Titans after three. I don't need the IP address They're not in this break. There you go All right, Ryan with the Giants Scott with the Falcons Ryan with the Dolphins mark with the Texans Mike with the Colts Carl with my raiders. There you go Carl. Good to see it Anthony with the Packers Matt with the Cardinals Richard Cromwell with the Niners Kevin with the Seahawks Mike with the Eagles Matthew with the Patriots Mark with the Chiefs Mike with the Cowboys Carl with the Steelers Richard with your early bird spot my rivals Denver Broncos Matt with the Jets Patrick with the Rams Matt with the Bears Lions and Panthers Kevin with the Jags and Scott Blackwell with the Cincinnati Bengals Patrick with the Bolts Los Angeles Charters nice Richard your other early bird spot Baltimore Ravens Matthew with the Bills Anthony with the Browns Mike with the Bucks Richard with the Washington football team and Matt with the last three Saints Vikings and Titans Let's put all this on one screen. Let's get all this sorted by column B Let me know If you want to make any trades ladies and gentlemen, we'll pause the video during this trade window when we come back We'll see if there's any trades and then we'll have the break stick around All right, welcome back folks there were no deals There's a lot of trade chatter, but no deals were done So that list remains the same here on a Wednesday the 28th four box random team three Thanks everybody appreciate it Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're far too kind. Let's pop these open remember we mark these RT So we know that these mosaic cello pack boxes Are reserved for these RT breaks not that there's any case hits or anything like that, but I think more for our inventory Of course the cellos for mosaic have the pink camos in them We've got to open packs To rip packs this does take a little a minute or two. There's Jason What's up guys Break schedule in the chat folks if you want to check that out now more packs to open up should we uh, what is who does who does everyone have? for the at panthers Straight up who does everyone have we can talk about spreads later this week, but Just straight up. I just want to get just your initial impressions Falcons are at panthers in the thursday night game The pool that you hear us talk about every week folks here at jaspy's Um jason's jason jaspy's mom won again last week. Hmm. I think that's twice this year but uh But yeah, it's just all the game straight up And then I think there's a monday night football score tiebreaker Is it only numbered cards that get shipped? I don't know. What does it say in the description? No, just vet comments are the only things that don't ship Everything else does I think only only veteran comments that do ship are tom brady and patrick mahomes I'll show you in just a second here All right, here is box when nobody cares about Falcons panthers not no one's given opinions on that All right, maybe the next box will move to a different game. So these guys don't ship All right that it's an insert that will ship that is justin herbert. He definitely ships. In fact, he gets the extra special treatment Right here. So that ships That's a pro bowl insert for russell wilson. That does ship Dairy slayton doesn't ship richard chairman doesn't ship matt ryan doesn't ship courtland son doesn't ship This is an insert. This does ship Jeff o kudos a rookie. He does ship and jason herbert is especial. So He gets the sleeve And the top load Right away. This goes to the chargers. That's going to be for patrick This is a parallel of a rookie. So We'll sleeve that up too That ships, of course, brian burns green. These greens are not numbered though In fact, I don't think there's a lot of numbered cards in this set that silver vignetieri will ship Yeah, I don't think there's a lot of numbered cards in here unless we pull like Like the florescent orange out of 25. So in this particular retail pack product, they're actually kind of Rare like this jerome bettis one out of 15 Steelers good thing carl was standing on the steelers There you go It's the florescent blue right there hall of fame And another one out of 15 And these aren't very common That's old school rogers stallback for mike grizzinski and the dowles cowboys Pretty nice. Yeah, it's pretty sharp. There's there's tom brady. That goes to the bucks mike grizzinski There's jeff saturday Kurt cousins silver jonathan taylor mosaic pattern leviska schnault jr. That'll be for the jags kevin madden with the jaguars And jonathan taylor goes to the blue horseshoes mike grizzinski although a white horseshoe there a blue horseshoe on their helmet There's an nfl debut justin herbert It doesn't sell as well as his base, but Still value here. He's having a great season patrick There's jonathan taylor green this time for the colts for mike How does everyone think two is going to do in his debut ladies and gentlemen There he is right there nfl debut to a tag of aiola For ryan redmond and the dolphins now if he does well, that's hashtag good for the hobby ladies and gentlemen That's what we want to see Right miami is playing Is not playing No dolphins are hosting the rams. Oh, that's a tough matchup What is everyone's expectations? There's nfl debut jalen hurts. That's for the eagles mike with that one rams tough team They they terrorize nick foals all game And that monday night matchup monday night match monday night matchup erin donald Pass rush is kind of scary. They've got a rams have a good defense Rosario is saying it's going to be rough with that d line It is i mean thankfully Like tua can move a little bit I don't know does that i don't know how i mean i'm sure there's there's pro football focused stats and next level reports on how the rams do with with mobile quarterbacks But they got they have to face the seahawks twice a year and the cardinals twice a year. So maybe they're used to that Do you know how to scheme for that? They are going to the east coast though I think they do okay on the east coast there And obviously tua leading the dolphins to a win would be excellent for the hobby I just wanted to have a solid game. You know, let's let's see. Let's see a couple hundred yards You know, maybe 50 60 yards rushing. Let's see two touchdowns. Maybe an interception Something like that Don't get hurt tua avoid those big hits All right, by the way all of these will ship because these are all parallels the pink camos are exclusive to this set Those are all the rookies that we're pulling there All right, maybe jesson herver tua joe burrow All right, maybe the next box three more to go folks All right next mosaic box Good luck All right, so no one had any thoughts on the falcons panthers game. I'm going falcons That's a good pick Bridgewater has been regressing a little bit Falcons are uh eight and two against the spread versus carolina In their last 10 and eight and two straight up short week for the falcons, but I think maybe new coach bump Think they're gonna they're gonna have a little bit a new voice in that locker room should help them out Yeah falcons and hula are gonna be too much. Yeah, I think Panthers look great the first couple games without christian mccaffrey You know, my day. This was very serviceable But I think they've kind of ran into a bit of an issue Without a strong running game You know bridgewater gotta throw a little bit more than you want him to And then falcons still offensively are still are still pretty great He's not gonna play on thursday bro Come on Come on, man You're gonna risk him to play the falcons. I don't think christian mccaffrey plays this week If so, do you how much do you have an effect we have on the game? What's what's this snap count 10? 10 touchdowns That's either records. That's easily the record for the running back, right? What's the rushing touchdown in a game record for running back? It's got to be like five. It can't be more than that christian mccaffrey 10 rushing touchdowns christian mccaffrey 500 yards six touchdowns On 10 carries snap count 10 All right, what about vikings packers? What does everyone have there vikings at packers? Packers, what did the packers do last week? They want they beat the texans last week, I think Vikings are It's got to be packers. That's Packers at home. They don't lose at home to the vikings. All right Rosario says packers There you go brad's got it in December 12th against the Niners gale sears Try them to over muddy conditions score his historic six touchdowns Four rushing one receiving and one returning tying an nfl record So four rushing What's the You think someone's had five maybe? What's the rushing touchdown record? I've straight up is the record. All right I think Nick does say that Quoting uh quoting nick jaspy shan jaspy is saying yeah, but gale sears was playing against milkmen You know guys who guys who were packing meat in the offseason This is always the argument once uh when uh When boss man talks about like Guys like gale sears back in the day Nick jaspy, he's like play they're playing against milkmen Zach moss genesis I can feel it coming in the air tonight. Was that genesis or is that just phil Collins? Zach moss genesis parallel super short print right there buffalo matthew shear of buffalo bills Wow two references in one card the buffalo reference and And I can oh that's just phil then what what's what's a good genesis song? You can't hurry love. No, you just have to wait That's a cover song by genesis There's steve mcmichael scripts autograph for da bears matt lieber with that one Or is that just phil too? There's brand knife. Maybe only know Maybe I just know Phil Collins stuff and not genesis stuff There's too a tag of oil a base that goes to miami ryan redmond Invisible touch is that you're at it. No, that's hollowness. I don't think I know genesis songs brandy green Josh shagams green Do do do NFL debut to a tag of oil and making his NFL debut This week I'm on the rams though and then there you go mookie Nice Dig dig dig get there Whoo chase claypole man. He's been playing some great football carl John samuelson's here in too deep land of confusion I don't know any of these genesis songs. I think I only know phil calling songs Maybe just that one phil calling song and that cover he did Of the supreme song. You know any peter gabriel songs Or did peter gabriel do you can't hurry love now? I'm missing mixing up all those guys. There's jaylen hurts NFL debut silver For the eagles mike g and jordan love will go to the packers anthony two more boxes to go Oh, sorry Not yet pink camo parallels Remember how to open packs. There we go Invisible touch had like five top 10 hits in 1985 I don't know but aren't those bands playing against milkmen Oh, yeah, I think I know that song take a look at me now And there it is nailed it No, I do have to create a new playlist. Maybe I'll maybe I'll discover some genesis Get then get them on the playlist What did peter gabriel do? Why are they not friends? All right pink camo's justin herbert pink camo. That's nice So is that justin jefferson this goes to patrick garcia and the chargers Nice one pad. There you go Wild pitch Nice Just razors just falling apart here. I think I kind of remember that sledgehammer song Isn't that a sledgehammer? Yeah, didn't it have like a wacky video too? And I don't know that's before my time too I barely know what a music video is justin herbert NFL debut pink camo another one for patrick garcia Oh, yeah, salisbury, but that's just peter gabriel solo right salisbury hill Which I feel like is in every like teenage romantic comedy movie or coming of age movie In there There you go bets Dodger's up to one and look at him run down the third baseline. There you go bets Beats the throw. It was a grounder to first beats the throw gets in there safe by a mile Hmm Like what are you talking about john tamas?  No, this game is live Yeah, what's up? Oh, yeah, I don't know this is a this is a tough game. I might take that bet This could go to game seven razor good. You got a thousand on you right now Is that how you roll Okay, I see Right people watching this are gonna think this is a rerun of a break from last night I don't even know what day it is. I think I had to stream mark this thursday for like a couple hours Titans at bangles Titans win that one, right? I mean, I think the bangles could get close But I think the tines are just playing really good football Oh, that's warning track power. Oh my god. I had the same reaction as I did last night I was like, oh that sounded good All right, uh jets chiefs that's easy Sean took the jets Sean did you take the jets? The shawnt even there shawnt's not there anymore He didn't take he took the chief everyone took the chief What would have to Can you imagine the jet speeding the chiefs at home?  Off a bye. I believe Going to detroit Stafford can still sling it. I think the lions are actually playing kind of de semidesen football lately, but I feel like frank rike's a pretty good coach And he's one of the better coaches off the off the buy Not any read level, but But he's up there I can feel it tonight There's jeff saturday genesis Parallel I know it's a phil colin. So I mean we just have to make that stretch folks phil colin's was in genesis That's a genesis parallel. That's jeff saturday for the blue horseshoes that goes to microsoft ski Super short print We got zak mas silver isaias simmons green isaias simmons for the cardinals mat And uh, zak mas going to Buffalo that goes to matthew matthew s All those bradies will go to uh tampa bay. That'll be for mic No, I did not look at those choice blocks. What choice what? Whoo Choice hoops look at the second one show it off really quick. This is out of one in one box one box Zion tiger lebron redscope to 88 and a buffon duo autograph It's a local too. They're gonna come pick it up seven out of eight and a local buyer. Nice Yeah, come here right away. Pick these up asap Nice personal breaks at jaspy's breaks on instagram live only at jaspy's breaks Jason with hot hands today folks. There's kevin king 13 out of 15 king me Going to the green bay packers anthony Florescent blue we had a few of those in this break. We'll do a recap at the end. It's pretty nice nice low number We've got a justin herbert right here old herbie Herbie the lovebug Bolts that's going to be for patrick garcia and an autograph. Oh nick chubb cleveland brown that's going to go to anthony as well back to back Without odell beckham jr. Would think nick chubb maybe gets a little more work That's spread that offense around somehow aj dylan nfl debut anthony and the packers Justin herbert for patrick nfl debut What about okay? Here's a good game that people should want to talk stealers at ravens. Who does everyone have there stealers at ravens? The big afc north matchup stealers looking pretty good this year right Big ben looks healthy The defense i feel like it's been banged up here and there but they seem to be resilient chase claypool breaking out Chase claypool getting like double team last week. No worries juju smith schuster will do work. I don't know. What do you think? But then on the other side purple birds is scary One more jackson who just go off at any time No one's got no one's got anybody in that so there he is right there Along with his teammate that that guy But then they got then the CEO's got that guy. There are your pink camels right there All right last box about to come up break schedules in the chat folks I think that we got a quick little two box contenders optic basketball break coming up. There you go. AJ pollock. Good grab Julio odious warming up. All right last box ladies and gentlemen No, no one has thoughts on stealers ravens. What about rams dolphins? I think I said rams But I want to it have a good day. That's good for the hobby Patriots add bills Could the patriots lose What a fourth game in a row third or fourth third fourth? I think I think we're talking about this earlier fourth game in a row I know when's the when's the last time that's happened to a bella check team? I'll bet it's been a long time Maybe it might actually happen Maybe the Patriots might lose a fourth game in a row Although the bills haven't really they started the season looking great They pulled off a little bit too grinding out a win last week Raider my Raiders at the Browns Browns don't have Odell Beckham jr. They've got to they've been playing some good football lately I think after Really the that stealer that brown stealers game was really the only kind of blip Their bad blip in their five and two record Five and two that a of c north is looking dangerous six and oh stealers five and one ravens five and two browns for the purposes of uh Of my pool I'm definitely taking uh the Raiders As long as their whole entire offensive line doesn't get on the covid list Get out of there They would have been a little more competitive against the Buccaneers if That offensive line got a little bit of practice that way I wonder if that helps them next or they're a little extra a little no practice a little rested next week. I don't know Larry Fitzgerald silver Jalen Hurts NFL debut NFL debut green chase young James Morgan Jets matt Matt k with that one michael williams green michael pitman jr silver And an NFL debut mosaic pattern to a tag of viola So the pitman jr goes to the blue horseshoes mike g and for the fins ryan redmond With the dolphins gets the NFL debut a two a tag of viola in the mosaic pattern Nice And I was just going to say let's find some joe burrows Let's balance it out a little bit scott blackwell. I think this is our first joe burrow NFL debut version Maybe we'll see a few more before this break is out or maybe a pink camo All right, I think that's just top loader dust right there Dan the man And Clyde Edward D lair. I think that's our first Clyde Edward D lair That'll be for mark nation and the chiefs There's an NFL debut Clyde Edward D lair another one for mark nation. There you go. Sit down yandy Diaz Go Dodgers bonus packs the pink camos Last bit here. Good luck everyone What about chargers at broncos anyone have any thoughts there? Chargers going into Mile high broncos been playing some competitive football I think they they think they pip a win here Saints at bears Saints on the road to the bears Bears exposed a little bit by by the rams their last game, I think I think the I don't know if the saints cover, but I think they definitely edge out a win Niners at seahawks Niners playing good football too in spite of all their injuries But the seahawks are coming off a loss and they're going home I don't think they're happy about that loss They have another divisional opponent I think they'll I think this is going to be another close one for the seahawks. I think the Niners might cover but I think seahawks win it Cowboys at eagles got to be eagles cowboys are a mess lot of lot of injuries and Maybe some unrest in the in the locker room Bucks at giants. I don't know why but I picked the giants Maybe I don't know sometimes in these pools you kind of have to go oppo a little bit and maybe have a Oppo public pick and hope that hits and that might that might win you the pool All right, so nothing significant here in terms of the top quarterbacks, but a lot of great stuff ladies and gentlemen We've got another four box solo break in the store right now. Jaspy's case breaks.com Here's a quick little recap right here of what we pulled here Obviously since it's a retail product, we're looking mostly for base cards Super short prance and other parallels like those harbors were nice the tuas and whatnot wish there were more burrows And Clyde Edwards he lairs, but maybe next time we'll get him next time folks I'm joe for jaspy's case breaks.com. Thanks for watching. Thanks for breaking with us Go Dodgers 2 1 right now. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye


One of the questions I hear the most often is what should I learn next? Where's my guide? How do I know the path that I need to chart out? But what if I told you there's actually a really easy to know exactly what you need to learn next and you don't need a roadmap or learning guide and you don't need to ask other people, you can figure it out all on your own really easily. Hi there my friend and friends, thank you for coming back for yet another video and in case you're new here, my name is Kevin and here on my channel I help people fall in love with CSS and if I can't get you to fall in love with it hopefully I can at least help you be a little bit less frustrated by it. But one thing people feel like would help them a lot is if I made a guide. I keep getting people asking me for where's my learning guide on how to get through all of my videos or like a path on like what videos to watch in what order and the problem is I'm at almost 700 videos now. I think it's a couple of weeks away and I'm going to hit 700 videos here on YouTube basically just about CSS which is absolutely insane and so I understand why people would want like you know that's a lot of videos how what order do I go through them and I totally get that it is overwhelming amount of information that's there and you when we're learning something we want to know okay I've done this I've done this like what what what do I need to know next because these are the things I've currently learned and at the very beginning it's actually pretty easy to usually do that because we're learning the fundamentals that we need for any given topic but speaking specifically of CSS you're going to learn things like the syntax and you're going to learn things like the box model you're going to have to learn how to select things the most common properties you're using and even that can feel really overwhelming when you're first like there's just so many different properties that you need to learn but as you start doing it more and more you start okay I'm remembering those and then I'm learning a few new other things along the way but you want to learn what's the next ones you need to know and the first thing I want to talk about is a bit more of the big picture of like how much overlap can you have because some of the things you'll look at will be like okay learn HTML then learn CSS then learn JavaScript and people feel like they need to be a master of one to move on to the next subject and I mean this applies also if it's smaller scale stuff right if it's one little property you don't need to become a master and fully understand exactly how it works you just need to be comfortable enough to use it to move on to start you know to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish basically but even with like you know learn CSS and then I get people ask me like when can I start learning JavaScript I've been doing this for a while I still don't think I'm good enough yet but like when can I you know when it would be a good idea to start learning JavaScript and it's probably now uh to be honest with you if you're wondering about it then start learning it you're not going to master CSS you're going to get better at it slowly over time as I just talked about I have almost 700 videos of me teaching it here I taught it in the classroom for six years I've been writing it for god knows how long now and I still don't feel like I'm a master of it in the sense that I'm still learning new things about it all the time every time I do something I'm reading about something I'm putting a script together for a video whatever it is or I just I'm browsing around and looking at cool stuff I keep learning new things and that's one of the reasons I love front end development is because it enables me to continually be learning new things and experimenting and trying and of course there's new things being added to CSS all the time and front end development in general which doesn't help that we're always feeling like maybe we need to catch up but I don't want you to feel like you need to be a master at anything before you start learning other parts of web development because they're so interrelated with one another but then we get back to that idea of what you know how can you make your own roadmap how can you know what the next thing you should be learning and say you are learning CSS right now and maybe now you decided you're going to go learn JavaScript because I said it would be a good idea but let's say you've gotten past the basics of CSS and you want to know okay what's the next thing I should do and this is where it's really hard for anybody to be able to tell you because where you're at is going to be different and but where you're going is going to be different from everyone as well and it's like then should you learn something like border radius next or should you learn box shadow next like you know making that type of choice I don't know it doesn't really matter which one you learn next and that gets even bigger picture of like should you learn grid first or should you learn flexbox first for layouts and I don't know it depends what you're trying to create and there's so many of these choices where you're going to end up learning both you're going to have to cover both because they're fundamental things that we use all the time but saying this one or that one should be the first one is really hard for me to be able to say or anybody because it's also so dependent on the context of what you're going to be creating and that's I really think the cheat code once you're past the basics the fundamentals there should be playlists I have a absolute fundamentals playlist it's kind of old now but I still think it's pretty good and so like that goes over all the foundational really early stuff and that's a lot easier to chart out and that's not just for CSS there's a you know you could do that with HTML you can do that with JavaScript you can do that with basically any topic of covering those fundamentals type ideas and then things just branch off from there and for me the easiest thing to do is actually choose to start building stuff and you probably hear this a lot when you're new it's like just go build something you I don't know what to build so I'll link to some resources down below that have things that you can build and you know you don't have to worry about the design side of things or I'll also link to a video that I've talked about some of the stuff before as well and but the idea is you want to just create things and they can be very simple things but you want to be practicing what you're learning and there's two different ways that this can actually help you know what to learn next because some of what you should learn next are things that you've already learned before and we'll circle back to that in a second but you might come on you want to do I know there's all like the typical things a to-do app a weather app things like that and there's going to be parts of creating that that you don't know how to do and that might be you know you've never done something with an API before and you need to figure that out or it could be much simpler you have a design and in that design there's rounded corners on stuff and you've never actually done that before and then you have to find out how border radius works and you're going to look at something and you're going to see right away the things that okay I have an idea of how this works and there's going to be ideas on I have no idea what these other things are or how I'd accomplish that well now I know exactly what I need to learn you might not know what the words are right you don't know that it's called border radius or it's box shadow and I keep using those because they're stuck in my head right now but you know that could be anything and we could even be a two-column layout you've never done two columns before so you have to look up you know CSS how to do two-column layout so you don't know the technical terms of it but you know what you need to learn and then you're going to find out what those technical terms are and then you're going to learn how to do that and the other thing that's going to happen is you're going to run into things that you know you've done and you've know you've learned and then you're going to try and do it you can't and this is those times where you're going to find those holes in your knowledge or gaps in your knowledge and this happens at the very beginners a lot of the time where they don't know how to start a project because they've been following so many tutorials and following along with all the different steps that when they go to do something on their own they're just completely blank at the beginning and they're like I don't know what the first thing I need to do is and that's perfectly normal that happens to so many people and it just means well that's where you need to start and you need to go and look okay this is how I start and then you're going to start it on your own and then by eventually the more stuff you build you're going to have to stop relying and looking up that very early stage but that does also lead me to say like don't follow along step by step with everything you're creating along with the tutorial even if you're writing all the code at one point you do need to break free because that's the points where you learn what you don't know is when you're trying to do something and you're having trouble accomplishing it or you don't know what you need to do to be able to do it that's teaching you what you need to do whereas if you're following a tutorial and you're just going through all the different steps that it's doing you're going through the paces you're learning about you're becoming aware of a lot of different things but you're not actually learning how to do it yourself you need to run into these problems on your own and try and figure them out on your own and maybe that means hitting you know pausing your code putting it off to the side opening up a browser window and looking at a tutorial that covers that topic and then implementing that in your own but when you just follow let's build a weather app together and go A to Z following along exactly of course you're not going to run into problems and everything seems super easy and then you go do it on your own and nothing works but watching tutorials online or reading blog posts you know tutorials online whether it's written or video they're polished there's no mistakes in there the mistakes that were made or edited out so you don't see them they're done ahead of time probably more than once to make sure everything worked properly and then they make a tutorial based on that and I know that because I've done a lot of them and I know the process that goes into it so people nobody's a perfect coder who just writes the code and everything works it's fine to look things up it's fine to you know get completely lost and have to rely on things and to relearn things you've learned before I look at my own videos that I've made like two years ago to remember how to do something completely normal that you're going to have holes in your knowledge from things you've already learned and that you're going to find a lot of holes in your knowledge for things that you haven't learned yet and you're going to start learning those things but instead of relying on like this is the path that I need to learn HTML or CSS don't try and follow a very specific guide because that's going to get you learning to things that you're probably not going to use very much and you're just going to forget about them anyway build stuff go and look up you get a design and try and make it go find something cool on code pen and try and copy it whatever it is just more stuff you make that's going to tell you exactly what you need to learn and if you are very new to HTML and CSS and you do want something that is a little bit structured to get you off the ground as I mentioned I do have a very beginner playlist that is right here for your viewing pleasure that will help you get you through those early days before you sort of have to branch off and start figuring out things a little bit more and with that I would like to thank my neighbors of awesome Andrew James Michael Simon Tim and Johnny as well as all my other patrons for their monthly support and of course until next time don't forget to make a unicorn on the internet just a little bit more awesome