And we're live I'm Anthony Johnson founder of the 21 convention and 21 studios here with Socrates one of our alumni keynote speakers and Alumni speaker period. Yeah, many times over This is like I can't even count. Yeah.  So we've been talking about this for a while. Yep. Yep Yeah, I just did one roll of Tomasi as well remotely recently and I went really well I need to watch that one. Yeah, it's on my list, but the work thoughts Which was so there was no way I could actually get any sort of what's cool is his fans are seeing it and our fans too And our guys are really liking it, which is it got like a hundred percent up legs for a while I've always been surprised that there wasn't more crossover previous. Yeah, I mean, even when I was in the community You sit down and go there almost was two running current veins on a lot of the stuff So it's kind of nice to see those worlds finally coming together and becoming aware of each other Let's get into that more in a second. This is you guys are where to we're actually see the chat right here live So anything you guys say I'll actually see So, yeah, thanks for commenting on stuff. Oh, it's one guy's already asking if socked as private coaching We're gonna get to focus here It'll pick back up. Yeah So we'll get into this later the question But anything you guys want to know or talk about just hit us up on the chat and we'll see if they're live So you mentioned the the crossover lack thereof between like what you mentioned We're talking about role on stuff But you probably need more so like P way and like you in red hill. Yeah And even in the community there was a Kind of a real disconnect between guys that were primarily focusing on picking up women that that was their soul single focus And they were terribly dead again, and I don't mean to disparage that at all I really don't for guys that are completely transforming their lives and in many cases being Very poorly prepared socially to go out and engage in individuals not just women But to actually increase Their standards of what they expect of themselves and their social situations and putting them out there themselves out there in a community of others You know where there's gonna be a lot of criticism and it was kind of a harsh environment a list Let's be honest I mean it was it was not a whole lot of hole, you know holes were barred on that Not necessarily mean occasionally or maybe a snark But on the whole you're putting yourself out there in a public way and one of the things that was required was You actually had to put good faith effort into it. You weren't allowed to just keyboard jockey You required to put out field reports and everything else and kind of really kind of come back as a journal and discuss what you did and why So it was less what you really think should be happening and more about what the world's really occurring and You know The private man discussed his his idea of the red pill wasn't just in game and pick up his version of red pill I in a lot of ways and having had that discussion with them Was red pill was seeing the world Not as a way you would like it to be or the way it should be but to realize that this is the way the world is And you're gonna have to deal with this What do you like it or not whether you like it or not and a lot of people want to hide from that And that's that's a terribly normal. I would say a very protectionist response to take Because a lot of reviews may come in conflict. Not only it's a very harsh reality And it's it's very easy to crash and burn, you know And to put yourself out there crash and burn crash and burn crash and burn and just continually to pick yourself up and say What lessons can I draw from this? Was really powerful Knowing that there was a lot of the guys that were doing pick up and straight game and God It was kind of fun to be around, but that wasn't what drew me in Yeah, fantastic, I mean Unbelievable results. I mean just you you you could describe it, but it's nothing like seen it Actually, I asked him recently a few weeks ago. I talked to him what his late count was and he said, I don't know I lost counted 300. Yeah, and I was that was in 2011. Yeah, right.  Yeah, but it didn't improve his quality of his life. I agree and that's that's and that Was to be something I'm not just saying it would be something I would actually tell him in person, you know how horrible to go through all this process to throw yourself at a particular thing and In fundamentally not be transformed for the better Towards the end of it or during the process of it. And so that's where a lot of the red pills up and particularly for me And I think a lot of older guys because we're older. We're educated. We had jobs and we had progressions.  I think it was I think it looked a lot Old men are often wise because everything that's trying to kill you thus far has failed. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, pretty much You can be old and beaten, but yeah, I don't quite see myself We're stuck in your ways. Yeah, I'm struggling with you. Yeah, which is we with Andrew.  Yeah Yeah, you're just like oh my god, you know, and how do you kind of relate with this other than you're going through the same Experience was mutual, you know, that's why I started the under 21 convention is like I recognize that you guys were good You were older than me. You're better than me and the release you had the motivation to also do this And a lot of cases Patrick was a good example I thought was I saw him in the field this guy's definitely better than me.  It's a different different class of person Well, and the reality is he put in your dues in yeah, put yourself out there. You do it You be honest about it. You know, you don't necessarily wear a chip on your shoulder But there's there's an element of squire to that. Yeah, and like any social group you provide value You know and and don't try to command attention to provide value and so And then within our our community. It was a really very fortuitous group And it was unique and we heard that from a lot of the coaches that were coming in visit They were swinging through town And they would say these things and you kind of like here But you don't quite realize how connected we were you had a mentorship program guys like Patrick or Tim Tim Tim or Yeah, yeah, right-hand man, right-hand man. Sorry about that. That was the slip.  No, we're still live I heard a click.  I'm like Hang on guys Yeah, we're good.  Oh, yeah Not perfect So but there was this element of mentorship as part of that process, you know If you're willing to learn and what we saw was that there's a lot of guys that were putting themselves out there Genuinely that we're putting the time in they were throwing themselves out there right no reports like you that got a reputation Is nobody works harder at this, you know, and there were guys that you know, you know Seen a more senior there really were putting the effort in and for them to sit down and all honestly said I don't know You know, you were putting the effort in day in day out and throwing yourself at this. It's commemorable It really is so you kind of had all that going on But at the same time what you end up finding now is that a lot of the pickup coaches and the coaches that we saw There were commercial at the time We're trying things and they would try things that would work or they would refine it until it did work But they didn't have a unifying theory as to why these sort of things were worked So it was kind of a one-off one hit, you know or product launch or whatever whatever it was and then you go What do you where do you go from here? Well, then they have to reinvent the wheel all over again Yeah, as opposed to kind of understanding human nature and having that, you know evolutionary biology approach to it Incombined with where are you at today culturally and where those two kind of meet and blend you can then sort of Drop on endlessly from that era, you know where they cross over and the firms and Individuals who really I think excel kind of tapped into that even today I think there's a lot of coaches that will look at red pill And be really put off by it. Yeah, I'm always still surprised But you know, I or they have like a tepid kind of approach to it like RST is like like this I would own apparently it's read the rational male and he likes it But then RST is not there they're not really advocating that they're advocating something else Yeah, and it's different between reading something and embracing something, you know Like I can read Karl's March. I'm not gonna be moved to change my life to become a socialist You know, I have a drop of head just because I read Karl's March You kind of have to understand it You have to kind of believe in it and like a lot of things it's not gonna be for everybody and in many cases, you know the red pill analogy with The major shows really kind of an apt one. Yeah with the red pill or blue pill and those are just symbols of Do you want to stay cocooned or do you really are you willing to view the world as it is? So you could thrive better now and the kind of the the horrifying one is I want to say it's Cyrus the bald character No, they call him the purple pill. The purple pill is a perfect example of it Here's here's a guy who chose a red pill put himself out there chose a red pill swallow the red pill And when it came time to having seen everything the red pill had to offer really wanted to go back and be cocooned Yep, and I think again, that's really human nature to and that kind of is almost the transition between Young adult and teenagers transitioning to young you know truly young adult and the difference is who matures through You know an adult particularly males have to view the world as it is if you're gonna truly succeed as a man Or embrace the blue pill on somehow to kind of work through that dynamic and of course, I'm not particularly enraged So I'm not going to speak on that but the guys that are in between are getting Yeah, you know in so many ways Well, Robo's thing actually in that is that that's actually the most dangerous position being the purple is dangerous I think his theory is I don't I'm not speaking for but I think it's theory is In that position, that's where you get a lot of guys and committing suicide Because they they apply right pill truths, you know the ones they kind of pick and choose to pick Yeah, but then they hold on the blue pill kind of illusions Correct, and then when you combine these two you have a very dangerous Concoction in blue pill in a lot of ways may also be guys that is white knighting a lot And it's not just dangerous to the individual they're dangerous to society on a whole you look at all the you know For example, I the Tampa talk actually spoke about the one individual that actually went out and shot and stabbed a bunch of individual Who clearly had gone through some boot camps with pick-up artists understood red pill You mean Elliot Rogers? Yes, I do. Yep. And so here you have an individual who then was still very resentful and then became Immensely angry at everything You know and up to the point that you know whether it was able to begin with or not You know then took action to kind of rectify that and and I don't mean rectified in a positive sense This is a child who decided to quit playing the game and wreck the board set You know by going out and murdering and you made the point to that even if he was Mentally healthy before the fact not saying he was these actions still would have been possible to him. Yeah, absolutely And I agree. Yeah, and you do you do find people hurrying on and it's very very easy to get angry when you load up any number of these facts Whether it's monastery information, you know that sort of thing And kind of seeing the world as it is It's very easy to kind of dive into that and not get out and end up being very angry You know this brings me an interesting point to someone mentioned the marrying the do so talk talking about the do some One of the things that the red pill me realizes that and one of the things that one of the most consistent comments I got at the convention from guys who attended in person and then after the fact it saw it Was they're recognizing these behaviors that Medusa did and women from their lives, right? But they always were like, I don't think she's psychopath though. A lot of the behaviors are similar Well in the degree of narcissism shows sociopathy and any of the pathologies are involved It's not just one. It's not a block or white. It's not a spectrum It's a spectrum and women on a whole, you know Society's pushing that spectrum and allowing that spectrum so that you're seeing these Disproportionately from what normal function behavior should be society and so it's not uncommon to see some of this played out It's not uncommon to you know, find women who cheat on spouses or partners or what? Yeah, yeah, it's common, you know, it whatever it is, you know, or you know, and I can give you an instance after instance You know or looking after their business just go and read it In a straight way, you know, the thing I talk about is a hypogamy is is or you know Hypogamy being the male version of hypergamy is Most women don't understand that they have a hypergamous nature and so they're not they're not taught to control that Normally that's where religion and societies and families stepped in to kind of mitigate that but when you have by that You mean to they're not They don't want to be consciously aware of it. There's pressing where now There's actively suppressing but in many cases it was the father's role to develop and an adult You know, some of our speakers have spoken about that before a mother's nature is to raise a child and as a father's duty to raise the Adult and when you remove father from the equation these lessons aren't taught and we see it played out in a number of ways We know Communities you look at cultures that have well, I mean fathers aren't even anyways. There's there's an excess Well, we'll see about that How's that working, you know, and I can point to any number of social markers, you know, I think how it's working is then it's Single-parent household. I think is the number one indicator of like crime violent crime in prison in many ways single single mother Huzzles not single. Yep, which is when you probably so that's be real specific. I agree with it Exactly. That's the point where you cross now from a little bit politically incorrect to way way But and then I'll take a step forward not only is it geared towards single mothers Hey, there's a major failure that if you really look at it There's no other way to describe this than being a crime factor. Yeah, this you you are allocating in most instances Not all there's a lot a lot of elements at play, but you are literally promoting these sort of Malthans social issues. The other is you're doing tremendous damage to your child You know and there were the individuals who's supposed to be most care and protecting other children You know the most empathetic there's very little empathy going to their children And you know, I've got a friend right now It's kind of going through the wars and I'm speaking with the spouse who's pushing for the doors And it's just amazing Kind of hearing some of this stuff that takes place reasons or rationality. You see these girls in tender all the time are both That's even worse. That's even worse.  They really should know You know, and I can I can explain it I can talk about a lot of things and there were some probably red flags for a lot of them And there shouldn't be but at the same time they never saw themselves as being this is an issue You know and sit down and say for somebody who is looking for family going towards that direction You're showing out all the red flags is that why would I invest in you when you've already proved yourself an absolute failure? And there's no sense of empathy self-awareness or agency taking place And when you don't have those three factors, you're to blame and you know And in many cases they were very very direct in in blaming their acts, you know, I wasn't happy, you know He didn't fulfill happy. You mean All right, yeah, absolutely And you asked a simple question was who's responsible for that and they didn't they get really defensive of course the dates are It's never her fault. No, no, no, how dare you?    Well, let's uh, let's get into this So you brought up something of the day that that was really cool and you said that hyper agency so hyper responsibility Is a form of white nighting. Yeah, and that was kind of mind-blowing for me. I was like, Dan That's so accurate because I've been aware of extreme ism that I Like the general idea to kind of motivate people because most people don't take full responsibility I can I can you mean by that you mean taking ownership ownership or whatever. Yeah, this one You know, I can complain I can do a lot of things but ultimately I'm in that situation because I Created a life that that's that's the result of the decisions.  Yes, absolutely And it's interesting is is they never applied or at least the the elements they they kind of couch it But it's implied but the part that gets delivered is always the agency where women are concerned And so that kind of learn is really alarming. You know, is that you don't hear him say hey I take this measure of a agency across my business my education my place in life my fitness my health You know what I'm doing with my life, but invariably it immediately goes to protecting and promoting a woman's interest At extreme levels and and you'll hear coined or phrased in a number of different ways And I just find that it's a it's a tell that something's out of whack here Something's very much out of whack and in you know without wanting to throw a whole lot of sense You know part of you then steps back and goes, okay The first thing is is watch what people are promoting. They're typically the antistasis up or they've exhibited that so for example You'll hear me constantly talk about virtue these days. Yeah straight out because I was not a virtue to do In a number of ways a lot of people realize and then in a very and I try to be very honest Because a lot of what I'm doing is making amends to myself and the individuals I harm Well, the same thing might be true then with relationships like Krauser was very critical of you Let's go Back me their email I talked a little bit really Because it'd be really it was something that popped up I was thrilled that somebody actually that I that I knew unrecognized I wouldn't say appear because I wasn't at his level and you know, obviously a lot of things it was doing And in many ways he was critical about some of the things he was doing Sometimes it was complimentary on about on the whole I think the overall picture is really pretty critical about it Yeah, but at the same time you have somebody at that level and in position Responding to something I did And you said I go what if it you know as an architect what a fantastic critique you have kind of a setup you present it You throw it out there How does your audience respond and you have somebody at that level? Clearly articulating invert, you know, you know in some great ways some you know some fantastic feedback And in many cases I tend to agree And the fact that I told that to and I think how much how much time you spent I mean it's like really okay You know tell you what can I get them to review that you know some more or whatever else, you know And it's like, you know, it was only a one-time thing as far as I'm aware Yeah, you know, but at the same time I was grateful for the feedback in the well Well one-time thing but he extended it not just to your talk and the idea is there he extended that he extrapolated that to mean the whole convention Okay, so he started Recently this is recently too, so not only them, but he won a robo's blog Other than the first talk. Yeah, he apparently saw me. He almost met me. I guess or maybe we met London back I wouldn't make So he spoke in an event where I Technically spoke that but just like the end of the event for like five minutes So I helped Andy put on digging blueprint Then we had the convention 21 convention like a week later. So I was like, hey guys if you want to come to this event Here it is. Here's tickets.   I think he was There was some recording.  I've never seen this one from crosser He had several I mean what it was more than just one. I mean it was like multiple So here's a guy who would post a you know, let's say a field report for all purposes that would then have the content You know, he's being narrating and here and then only that, you know He kind of marked it out the time so you can jump through it and listen to it And he's sitting like wiretap, you know, really but it really was but it's you know, it's all in a public And so there was no him hiding kind of the results, you know You you literally hear the inflection you can hear it and you know There's a couple times where you you're listening to it and you're listening to not you know to verbal cues of like You know when when is she really digging it? When it you know, when is she all of a sudden that switch from hey this kind of a cool guy I'm kind of you know, what's going on here to all of a sudden She's really in the moment with him and he's putting that out there and talk about fantastic as far as leading the industry down that road Yeah, now where he and I differ is where where our objectives are He clearly wants to live a single lifestyle, you know Travel the world for a number of different reasons and then gorgeous, you know International he's pretty clear about that like he's out of that.  I feel like that's more in your 40s. Yeah interesting I got into this because I actually wanted to improve the relationship I was in and I also wanted to reconstruct some of the most successful periods of my life I was when I threw myself wholeheartedly in a group situation with other other other guys Whether I was competitively swimming in high school whether I was in the military or when I was in architecture school three major events in my life in which I Kind of threw myself at a course of action with a bunch of peers that were going through the same thing and you Picked each other up. There's this camaraderie and so I went out with the intention of reconstructing that now It happened to center around pickup and women I happen to be in Orlando coming from Washington, DC So, you know instead of jumping in grabbing a 20, you know $20 cab fare across town to go to another bar or two or three one location I've got 75 within a quarter mile of my house, you know, there was always something going on And you just said I got if you're you know, instead of just sitting at a bar drinking All right, play play with this, you know, see where this goes in the meantime, you're chasing ass And what you know as a single do what's more what can be more fun than that, you know It's like, you know, I could sit home and play video games with my gold I could throw $100 a month at cable TV and the bars are still open and real people are interacting And so consequently I was downtown and living downtown and so, you know, that's that's what I ended up doing And and you then find all sorts of other things and you know, what you really kind of Figure out fairly quickly is the relationship I was in was really doing from the start Chose the wrong person followed up on the wrong I've seen an idea that if you find pickup or red pill or anything like that because you're in a current relationship You need to end it immediately. The fact you're even looking You're not you're not nobody nobody does. I don't know anybody does and and ultimately it did And so there you know up to a point. I couldn't really throw myself at it And you know because you're in a relationship or you change the dynamics and not behave virtually And you know say hey, yeah, we're together and while in the meantime I'm going out the boys misbehaving and banging other checks Not necessarily the coolest thing to do and so you kind of got to live with those consequences You know and it'd be really honest. It wasn't worth the effort The the relationship ended horribly anyways. Uh, so, you know, you just most do yeah And this this room is spectacular, but yeah, it's pretty I I have some familiar Yeah, yeah, and it'd be fair. I it was not not you're in But I I didn't I didn't walk out as a net positive.  Oh, she wrecked a truck I don't know how literal that is. No, very I know there's like a metaphor.    You know, and so you do we we did end that amicably I ended up giving her the horse Straight out no cost. No just it's your your responsibility of all the white knighting stories I've never heard a horse involved before I had a horse.  Uh, you knew me when I had the Vespa. Oh, yeah, because she destroyed it It's still around, isn't it? No, no, it's got stolen a trash.  Uh, but yeah, the yeah the issue is not only that she destroyed the truck And so there goes at and on top of everything else and uh, $600,000 in real estate that Because I was investing very very happily, you know One in my dreams, but the other was this was this was very much attached Uh, and and that's still ongoing that that very much affect my life today. Yeah, so Let's get in some other topics. So we really went down a couple rabbit holes. Yeah, sorry We got another 25 minutes or so So, uh, let's talk about the 2017 event. Yeah, we just put out tickets for absolutely killing it. Yeah, that's fantastic Thanks to the two key speakers and that was really great Anybody who does not have your ticket yet, you can get it in the Uh description box underneath the video or the card at the top right hand side of the video It should be like here maybe over there one of these two at the top In all honesty, if I wasn't speaking, I would still want to go for the full floor. Of course.  It's an experience.  Really? I didn't know that many.  I took off 2013 and 2015. Damn. So even considering two years off We still hit over 10 and it's a 10-year span Yeah, that's fantastic But not only that it's like a red pill invasion as I kind of call it Rollo calls like a red pill summit. Yeah, and he's correct Which wasn't the intent when I started bringing it, you know, I was putting it together I don't I don't really see it as a red pill event. I think that the you you're tapping into something and I think it's giving Uh, particular lifeblood in a number of ways to a lot of the ideas. It just it's one of those I think synergizes really well.  I'm very polarizing and antagonizing as it is So finding these guys that are like hard hitters on the truth, right? Yeah, it's like Most people would think with a conference, you know, I'd be reluctant to have these guys on board But with me, I'm like rolling out the red carpet like right this way. So yeah, yeah, you're Christian McQueen And to be honest, I'm actually really excited to see some of these guys on me too So because I've read a lot of them. I know who they are and never had a chance of me And so it's gonna be really nice Well, most of them are I mean, Rollo in particular has been very, you know, hard to meet He's only done one public appearance before and that was 2015 And that was uh, not recorded only audio Well, you know, I thought it was in person. He was actually in this town and when I know And so there was always in the back of your head. You never know when you're going to come across these people and and because I've actually come across some of the famous people that we know Uh before I actually was kind of involved myself. So you go. Oh my god, that was so well the rollo for all You know, you did run into him. Yeah, I very well could I mean absolutely? You want to remember? Yeah, absolutely, right? Yeah, absolutely, right? So yeah, it's going to be really kind of interesting kind of you know, kind of you know When you're 20 when we actually had a phone call a little while ago I thought it was uh, when I first talked to him on the phone.  No, it's him.  Okay So anyway though. Yeah, it's uh, I'm excited to have the red bull guys in the event Yeah, it's it's it's gonna be a real nice dynamic. It's gonna be a real nice I mean, yeah, you make a point too that you know, the convention is bigger than just red pill I have a lot of different different uh Movements and like ideas it's bigger than a red pill. It's bigger than pick up. Uh, it's philosophy You know, I know in many cases you've had financial people come in and talk about to this. You're fantastic You know health nutrition particularly in nutrition and then exercise Sports science those sort of things You know guys that are doing cutting-edge research and development and looking at it and literally wearing their results You know, I don't know if you followed this guy or Patrick does but there's a comment there on rollo's blog name. Yeah, really?  Yeah, I mean, that's like a lot of times you get information And if you're not prepared for it or in a situation that blows right back and you go back and kind of like, oh my god Why didn't I see this before?  These guys love the video and I didn't really think anything of it Um, and I think you know, I've seen rollo's blog back in 2015 Crouser, I didn't know but a few of these guys I was familiar with But now because nick cloud introduced me to the red pill right in detail It's like, holy shit. What did I know what happened? Yeah, it just opened a lot of a lot of doors. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, he pulled back the curtain for me and it was yeah, yeah, and it's been there the whole time Yeah, I know. I mean, that's kind of crazy in a lot of cases Uh, you know, you'll do that and then you'll you'll walk around your hometown You'll see things differently. You'll see relationships. You know differently And that that can be alarming in many cases you those relationships change And you can't carry those friends for because your lifestyles have dramatically changed and you saw that like for example in the layer Where a lot of the guys who are really kind of into it try to convince their friends to do it It was always kind of a mistake. Yeah, if they're not finding it themselves They're not going to value it necessarily in many cases. They'll be very much Accomplexively opposed to it. Yeah, and so you just have to realize that your relationships are changing And you know that's not going to be compatible and you have to be comfortable with that And a lot of cases a lot of people want to go back to blue pill because of it And I've seen that others I've seen a kind of really more mortifying elements where It's not relationships. You can give up or change It's relationships with parents In many cases, you know, and I see things like my own development where my own mother I said, I know oh, yeah, you mentioned a couple of comments.   You're taking somebody else's position and promoting it over your own well It's crazy. She's when she does that even as your own mother or your sister or whatever They're well intentional. Yeah, absolutely.  No, really. Let's let's lay this out here and in that that can be very difficult and In many cases, you know, I know particularly with men's rights issues that you know, that can be a really alarming And and you want to get angry because many cases damage was done Not intentionally and then you have to sit down and say, okay, how do I handle this going forward? And that that can be immensely difficult to work through It's challenging in many cases that you have to take a step back and then they're going to be who they are I'm not going to be able to change them Even if I could would I want them to feel that kind of guilt or more You know what I naturally then go and say hey, no protect somebody I love and so a lot of cases You don't have to bring it to that but that same time doesn't mean I have to take the advice Just because it's somebody to love desperately love and desperately means well doesn't mean I have to own their advice Because when you take it, it's yours. Yep, and you have no right to complain and that that's a major switch So a lot of tight time. That's actually that's an issue. I actually thought of a lot back in 2016 throughout the most not not recently 2017 2016 Towards the end of the medusa relationship.  Thank you.  Yep energy level even even people I trust, you know, people and all kinds of people So, uh, it's just interesting look back on that and think like Well, yeah, some advice you get's good and some's not but you ultimately own it the minute you take it It's yours and for better and for worse and that could easily go it can go either way very quickly And it's one of those things I'll I'll say I try not to give advice and I'll turn right around and do just that You mean prescriptive stuff?   Look at what you're stacked against, you know, not only did you have biology Which you know sex you're supposed to bond All those chemical things you have the addition all of a sudden that's going away You have your day-to-day patterns of behavior all that sort of stability elements and then you have her and then a business dude Yeah, and a business and everything else And then you look at one of the major things that she applied, you know continuously that was her sexuality Oh, yeah, you know and one trick pony one trick pony And that's always one of the triggers you say when you see somebody, you know doing that It's a sign that they're they're working on that rather than virtuous traits, you know And so you start looking for what are the virtuous traits? Are they truly being empathetic? Do they know how to have self restraint? Are they we're looking long term on a relationship how to maintain and Manage that do they know how to manage a relationship?  I didn't like that didn't have you know Or didn't have a lack of a gag reflex, you know And while it made me flooded at it as a joke what makes it stick is it's real It's real and where did it come from and where's it come from? Right, you know, and so you've got all these sort of things coming, you know in play and it's like God, are you shitting me? You know, that's a lot of gravitational pull of break free up And you were you were able to do that in short order And in part I would say is is the situation the That you're on but for the vast majority of it It was who you were and who you worked to be so that when that time came unknown to you and everyone You were in a position to to be able to make that move and you also had a network that supported you because Exactly that was that was I focused on on realizing that a lot less you're really appreciating that that yeah Well, and let's let's play the 21 convention right now for you know Everybody's shown up at this convention for the most part will not know each other Uh, but they're going to meet other guys and form a bond over the next you know That course of four days or five days, whatever it's going to be four and a half Four and a half, you know in the evenings and if they have similar interests They're doing something and many of these guys are going to stay in contact and and maintain those relationships And they're going to have a network to kind of fall back on of people they trust And that is incredibly important. And by the way, we're not selling that as a ticket. That's that's a side benefit It's a side benefit and it's important and it's rare. It's incredibly rare.   It's not immaculate But it's perfect. Yeah, yeah without major plot. Yeah without major plot. It's sufficient And so you see that and go, okay, the frances have gotten through worse, you know, and the realities In many cases frances socialist because of uh, the german invasion, uh, you know, and The underground network that was established was essentially communist begin with because they had to go underground To survive in france during the pre-war period And so that they, you know, they capitalized on that network to develop the resistance Well, it's no surprise that all these countries that had that sort of communist underground resistance prior to the war during the war survive And that they were then in power Or in a position to seize power because they had that network established right after the war No, no major surprise But what we can say is that france is going to see a lot more violence And it's going to be one way until it's not and when it's not it's going to be very very nasty And it's going to be nationalism tied in with racism amongst any number of things and it's it's going to be particularly So basically you're saying that by lapin not winning and the problem not being dressed now the cans and that kicked down the road blows up in the face and it always gets worse. It always gets worse Unlike in britain where they took action. Yeah, they did. Yeah, they did. Yeah In many ways and and i'm not saying that they're going to go through, you know, learning trials and some difficulties But they're going to vastly better off. Uh, they actually have a degree of control for themselves You know, as much as you can have when you're you have a government overseeing, you know, that's wonder how much uh, the geography once again Helped them being a Without a doubt it formed kind of part of that national culture. Um, but you know, then again, so zireland Yeah, you know and kind of look at that but they've always been buffered against the rest of the world by England Violated invite, you know, so there's a lot of politics involved But ultimately I think people are intelligent people are able to make make their own your own choices appropriately The problem is is that, you know, you start looking at demographics of iq and cultures You know where iqs are suppressed because of behavior and cultural infiductions. Oh, man. I was watching Joe Brogan a little while ago It can be really ugly apparently I don't know if i'm quoting this exactly right, but it's supposedly and this is on Joe Brogan's show And then he was stunned.  It's trial. Yeah in many cases and so within the tribe There's only so much gene spreading you know, and there's a number of reasons for it And I don't want to just like first cousins and shit Yeah, and I don't want to necessarily jump on it from that standpoint But the reality is is that when you don't have free economies free market You're not promoting the best of yourselves. You're repressing that and so you get a culture That's repressing itself. Uh, and so, you know, you get a gene pool. It's a And as a consequence you get a gene pool it represses itself now We joke that you sit down and say life is difficult when you're stupid And it is you know, it can be really challenging if you're stupid, you know, uh, you know The problem is is that it's it's even more challenging in a democracy in a democracy You know requires a certain measure of intelligence and capability Uh, it's just not somebody just going and voting and we're even seeing that in the u.s Oh, you mean like thomas jefferson used to comment on this that you know, the public needs to be educated and like knowledgeable Yeah, and and one of the reasons why you have a class system where people, you know, non landowners Didn't have a right to vote because they had no investment in the vote outcome You know, and that's an issue, uh, you know And it's also an issue when you have people that are voting and they don't have skin in the game And they're not particularly intelligent because you're enabling that behavior or failed culture And when you see political parties promoting elements of feminism that then promotes lack of fathers and communities You know, I think there's several talks where they talk about the black community being canary for the united states Is if you want to see where things are going take a look Yeah, um and and look at at what's happened when you remove fathers from from that culture And that's specifically what you're addressing that it's yeah, absolutely Yes, absolutely. And so, uh, you know all these sort of things interplay And and I think it can be a very very dangerous sign and This will come to a head It will come to a head one way or another And I you look at it. It's unfortunate. I had some friends that are, you know If I used to do some couch surfing blue or not a lot of hosting And they they had gone to Paris and France previously They went back fairly recently and they were absolutely stunned And they were saying that it was constantly they felt like it was a security state because everybody was alarmed Everybody was watching everything else this this idea that you could As a woman grab a shawl and go down and walk a pair of street in the middle of the night And still feel like you're in a western world and kind of window shop and see the lights and glitters Um, she goes they did not leave their compound as far as the hotel in the areas that they were at You know, even pre pre pre dark, you know, dusk They they just felt that way. Uh, and in many cases were physically accosted even during the daylight Uh, they were just repulsed And they go it's not the same And that's over the course of three or four years Damn, yeah, I wonder about I wonder about Sweden. Um, I went to Sweden back in 2010 for the convention I had there in Stockholm And I'm thinking about it now.  You're starting to have arson starting to take the place You know, so you're already having people throw a Molotov cocktails at mosques You know, you you start to have the no-go zones areas being Policemen are not allowed to take public transportation into work in Sweden I've not heard.  You kind of listen. Yeah They're not allowed to do it because of the the they know they're at risk They have to arrive in two in many cases They have to go to another station and they be transported into a group that goes and actually polices the no-go zone Wow, and so you go that's a combat zone Yeah, okay. And so what's the euphemism is a euphemism for compound Yeah, that absolutely is and and so then you have you know the rise of militarized police police force And any when you can't tell the difference between You know a frontline infantry battalion and the police force. There's really something wrong You know, that's that's not that's not a healthy state of the society We're running out of time. Something we should move on to some more interesting topics We have So, uh, just briefly a minute or two. You have a new book you're working on. I am. Yeah, it's one you're working on for a while It's one I've been working on. It's a new year in completion. That it that it is Essentially what it is is I'm taking the Tampa talk where in which I talk about the the personal map from the 2014 convention 21 convention Yeah, and I take the essence of that and I'm I'm writing more content for and still presenting the information Because part I know people are going to find the book or they're going to find the the blog that I that I was writing that I kind of put on hold They're going to find the videos But there's a whole gamut of people that actually go searching for information not via the blog or anything else But by books. Yeah, and so I kind of always wanted to do that My first go at it. Uh, it's been, you know, terribly start and stop start and stop Tremendous amount of time. Uh, but I'm I'm getting near near completion on that one And of course, once you get the first one out, uh, it's like, you know, I'm talking about Well, I'm sure you should send a copy to crowds here when I To be really honest, if I ever made a to be really honest, I probably would And I know what I almost kind of feared is that he would have the same comments regardless You know, I think a lot of it was that his use, you know, the word use that I kind of use overly verbose words Or, you know educated words a more simpler one can do and he's actually right on that Roller gets the same comments. Yeah Yeah, and sometimes I'm like, you know, I'm okay with that And and so you you said I go, okay, I hear the comment I hear I can understand it. Maybe I consider it But at the same time, I don't particularly want to water down my personality or or some of the things I Oh, there's a lot more. Wow. Oh, damn. Sorry guys. The comments got cut off there for a minute. We are back We'll hit on these in just a second Uh, can you go a little bit over eight or you got to leave right away? I can go over it. We're having a good time We'll we'll go until I'm done here. All right. All right. I got more to fill you up for your business Oh, actually, where's that bottle? I told you so, so let's get into uh, one more topic before we take We're guys we're gonna take your questions just a minute But one more topic I wanted to hit was kind of friction of the alumni speakers Some of them have gotten very upset by the rightful stuff Versus the new speakers who are obviously not upset because they're part of the new group and they don't have a connection And by that I mean the background on the convention But to be honest, I would sit down and say for a lot of the speakers There's always been kind of some of the conflict Yeah And one of the things I really loved about the 21 convention is you can have two guys on stage giving information They thoroughly believe that really kind of disagree. Oh, yeah And you have that and unless you're kind of really I heard uh, I heard two of the fitness guys in Miami.  I was on that panel and I was on the far side. I was to their left So this is not even pickup related or anything? No, it's not This is business on the power of exercise and what is defined in your belief on it You know, and it's not this it's one of the rare cases kind of being an outsider I could see both sides You know where you sit down and have somebody who is a pure saying, you know You exercise this muscle for this and I can also hear somebody else saying there's this more holistic approach What it does for the overall body and everything else and in your sense of living, you know a command of your body That's very different. You know, and I know I've done that, you know, for example I would sit down and say there's something very different from doing a mechanical exercise on an omni arc machine or a weight machine Doing an exercise as opposed to picking up kettlebell And whether or not one is actually really better or another, you know for it at a certain point for me That kind of gets lost in detail. What am I most likely to enjoy and then would bring me back Again, whether that's absolute results or my enjoyment of the exercise because god knows I just need to do 98% of it and I'll get the benefits the last 2% We're really kind of doing that bell curve of you know, that that that real narrow area The other is that a lot of this stuff becomes kind of religion Oh, yeah, you know, and so you see some of that. Well, even the hindancy training guys Yeah, absolutely back in the 90s, I think 2000s that were called the hit jedi right because it was like a religion to them Yeah It's a religion. I think is fantastic But religious you have that and then you have the same guys that maybe agree on the exercise component Completely disagree nutritional.  That's interesting Philosophy you have and rain guys.  And it's abused to the point of being meaningless a lot of time Or it means like horrible shit like you're over uh You're oversaturating something with too much bullshit But at the convention I think we have real diversity We have a real open debate about real issues And with some bad-eyed speakers that always bring something against both table Even if you don't agree with it For example, uh, what I think one of the classics I kind of we talked about is uh, I had conflict with somebody You know dealing with feminism and I'm an anti-feminist Oh, yeah, James Marshall Yeah, totally This is this is not allowed And you know, and and I like Why did you I really do I mean, I really do Uh, and he did something that was completely unique being a feminist and being in that position in that memory frame and presenting that information Uh, he he did something up until that point. No feminist had ever done That he had a dialogue he listened. Yep, whether he was or he heard or I'll say he listened He was empathetic whether it was emotions or anything else and and you talk about Acknowledging somebody and giving validation to them. I think it's too components to this I think it's the reflection on him and it's without a doubt and it's a reflection of the venue without the environment You guys are both of you guys were in for that. Absolutely. So in in that regard Here you sit down and say I have been in that opposition not only to feminism But one or two steps beyond just seeing all the disclaimers I put on this video Yeah, I was like, this does not represent our views But you know at the same time I would have no qualms whatsoever whether inviting him to my house during the event Or any time he goes, hey, I'm in town and I would without a doubt say, hey, if you're available Come have dinner with them, you know You know if I were to send the boys out to for a particular coaching to sit down So you need to see the world and you know, here's here's a company on a group that you sit down and say They're prog you need to get the hell out of house for two weeks and see get your european experience on I without a doubt send them to those guys, you know And I'm not disparaging any of the other pickup artists or a guy dating coaches that I know But I think there's something to be said about having that lifestyle of setting himself up a particular way And delivering on it, you know, and without a daddy does it in a remarkable successful way. That's virtuous There's no hiding. It's no no kind of you know hiding. I'm doing this, but I'm not really telling you No, he's very upfront about it and he's marketed themselves that way and women are making a conscious to choice I'm choosing that. Uh, you know, how do you how do you criticize that? Uh, you know, you criticize it when he doesn't choose you again and again and again Well, we can criticize it when he goes I criticize him and we we might actually do something on youtube at some point about this mutually me and him Or beyond that too, but uh, I criticize speaker, particularly when they go off the reservation to speak Okay, so they exit your lane. So that's staying. Yeah, that's what happened That was that was the biggest agreement we had is I viewed that as going off his lane way out of league Right off his lane other people didn't but I vehemently, uh, You know push that that his expertise was specific to seduction and dating Yeah, I got Going into social cultural issues that big was beyond what I I would say it was not even so much their lane Uh, because I I know other speakers have done it as well, but you know, you knew it in advance Yeah, yeah, that was you know, you have somebody coming in and talk about fatherhood and you know As opposed to what they're normally dealing with, you know weight training. No, it's an advance yet You know it in advance. So I think that kind of took everybody by surprise. Yeah I was surprised as anyone else exactly.  I was keeping an eye on you.  There isn't actually a lot of uh deliberate or direct debate going on But there's the big going on between the speeches, right?  Yeah, I don't I've never really dreamed that up And I know a lot of people it could be fun That's why we go out to the bar and talk and then you see that that's a whole another thing when You sit down in a lounge or something where everyone's gathered together and you start talking ideas If you have those discussions you really do they do take place if we were doing debates like that They would be like not in the convention room They'd be like in the like a podcast style like this maybe you know like you and greg did this That might be an interesting podcast. Oh, yeah I have something like Steve interview two people who kind of have that and then discuss that Yeah, and for example, you know, we talked about number issue You had a panel where they were kind of discussing that openly. It happens. It happens organically. That's fun I don't know that you know I think there would be some real value added to that Okay, you know, I you know in that regard I would see it but I'll let him let him now just see you know put my two cents corporate. This is corporate Yeah, and so you see my involvement with this right, you know, I we talk and you know come up with the idea What do we get? Let's go through some questions Uh, yeah, we'll take some questions guys. Me him is riffing here Uh, right at the bottom. I see that James Marshall speech is one of the most viewed 21 convention videos in history Uh, I don't think so. I mean it's got 95 000 views or so which is pretty good He's got some really good hits, but as far as the the number that that goes Well that yeah goes to next but James Marshall has other speeches that are way beyond that He has two speeches north of 300 000 So his most popular talks are not the one that was related to feminism In fact, his talk on feminism from the Tampa event is I think one of the most disliked videos on the channel And it's his most dislike video Period on our channel out of out of his set of we have like 30 videos or 40 videos of him or something like that His videos are unanimously positive and that one I'm not objective here. I mean I can't sit down and say yeah more more more views is better because my numbers are incredibly low Well, the likes or dislikes also reflect youtube in general, right? It's not just our channel or the video exists on all of youtube And youtube is like constantly getting and I think it's good, but kind of like alternative media new media That pushes hard to expose.  I don't have any corporate elements involved Other than the book that may be coming out.  I don't even really honestly coach You know, and so it's a completely that's why I call you a relationship philosophers because you're just you're focused on the issues like period Well, and it's sad, but it's also because I gained so much for free From individuals like the community, you know, whether it's that or other people might like I felt a moral need to kind of give back and to kind of provide and return In in a number of ways, you know, and and so that still goes on, you know The the other is my personality type, you know, I'm I'm I'm a licensed architect for a reason because I wanted to change the world I wanted to believe in impact You know, I can sit down and say I do some great work. You've seen some of it Yeah, I would sit down and say some of the best work I've ever done. It's all good. Yeah. Yeah And there's some of you know, not only the house, but you know some of the best work was you know My involvement with you during that time period and other guys who had similar issues in their lives You know big and small, uh, so, you know, I I I used to sit down and say I constantly check my email and everything else lately It's been hard. I I I could probably say I have not checked in probably a better part of a month Shame on me completely shame. Oh, the manning of sorry. Yeah, the manning of smart, you know Email account. So, you know, I need to get back to that because I do know people are involved They want to get information, you know, and I just haven't been able to respond Speaking of that So the first guy asked marise levite levy, uh, can you do private coaching sessions? We're just talking about yeah That's to be honest. I can I'm just completely not set up for it right now Um, that that probably should change But what my my fear is that I start focusing in on the coaching element because there's a monetary incentive As opposed to writing podcast and doing everything else and and I hate to say it my time is at such a premium I've got a complete profession that dominates my my attention You know between that and sleep and trying to recover and have having a family life, but I need to Reinvestigate that because I think there's a real connection. If I want to make a change I have to make it one-on-one with individuals Otherwise, it's just information. So that that doesn't change. Yeah, it does. You get a lot of individuals watching every day hundreds This one was for me. Anthony. Do you align yourself with the iron rand fountain head for re sun Sun ran out the shrugged Not sure what marisa is asking here, but yeah, I'm a huge fan of iron rand. I consider myself an objectivist Uh, sometimes big objectivist sometimes small objectivist depending on what the fuck's going on the current time Uh, so I'm not quite in greg's camp. Uh, he's like need to be on that But he's really dedicated to that. Yeah, he's really dedicated to that I think a lot of his philosophy actually goes into subjectivism.  I don't know if we'll get into that one yet about regaining frame or something like that You're grabbing the will Let's see what else is there. Actually probably if you want to kind of direct that I'm like talk coming up in uh Oh, yeah, okay. It's quite honestly. I'm going to 21 convention 2017 10 year anniversary I am going to include a complete section on that That very well may be kind of the title of the of the talk is whose relationship is this anyways So owning the relationship holding the relationship holding the frame, you know and and kind of in small part You know, I was talking to one of the guys and this is where it stemmed me from Literally a card ride ride back from miami. Oh, yeah talking about it And you know, and you I don't know what people know or don't know until they kind of ask a question And so the the simple question came up is, you know, something about who owns relationship or it's our relationship or something And once I'm like, are you mad?  You know vast majority and yet she owns 50 percent relationship.    This is my bus. This is where I'm going I'm pulling over picking up something.   You see the author of your life. Yeah. Yeah, the author All that you know and and I intend to sail the sea Well, yeah, by that, you also mean that you're the author of any relationship you start up Absolutely, we need to be any more Absolutely And if you're not, you're fucked Yep, and in dating should be in any of those What if I identify as non cisgendered, you know, one of the 48 genders one of the 47s Yes, on that Especially if like what about that though? Yeah, I'm not if I you know, and I hate to say this I actually kind of know the lgbt qya the fact that I know it's qya I don't even know that is I don't even know that is But isn't the b in an lgbt by Meaning it's binary gender. So it doesn't discount the entire life. There you go. Don't bring it. It's not rational, you know, you don't You'll you'll get stoned for that one I'll say a few more questions. Is James Marshall going to be on the 21 convention 2017? I haven't seen him written there as a speaker yet Uh, it's possible still, uh at this point, but at this I would also say not particularly likely So I'll talk to James again. I talked to him all the time. That's a shame because I've always enjoyed him Yeah, I thought he's always a seller so he we talked about this in 2016 as well So it's not like you just sprang up out of nowhere. Right. So between, you know, he has a lot going on Yeah, he's not see anything. He's got he's not just he's not just James Marshall. He's CEO of the national lifestyle Absolutely, that's a whole different beast. Yeah, and it's big enough. It's really blown up. That's awesome So that's that's why I really wanted him a Miami and he was him a Liam because I knew that it's possible He wouldn't speak in 2017 at which point he would be back for 2018 or beyond So I was like, we need to do Miami need you there Okay So possible but not particularly likely also because the speaking list is almost full at this point We got a new speaker recently No one I've announced them just yet two of them actually So we're pretty much capping out at this point even though we're four months out And see I don't even know the whole list. I know some of them I would tell I'll tell you about the ones I know. I'm like, really? God. That's awesome. Um So sorry about asking a random question if you have time can you talk about vampires? Let's see what else is available first. Hang on Amir Is it okay to stay around them if you're aware of them? Or can you make a connection with them? Oh god, this is tempting. Which one is it? Let me uh, this one here and these this one Let me hit this. Let me hit this. So there's a there's a blogger.  I think And he has a saying about cluster b woman.   Do not stay over Be very cautious talking to her after the fact because of what kind of creature she is So I knew what I was dealing with and so carl over a black label logic says just that Cluster b woman or the kind of woman vampires kind of women you sleep with but don't fall asleep around Yes, yeah I think no that is super perfect. No, that is absolutely super and going back to your question No, you absolutely can develop a connection with them. No, no Be their victim be their best victim be a victim that has Limitless potential to continue being a victim and well, you have to basically mock them at that point. Oh, you have to You know, and you know, I kind of talked about the kind of the vampire obviously saw the video on now where I talked about Yeah, and there's more than like vampire lore that kind of goes in on this You look at, you know, for example, Dracula and a couple of the others are you know where they tap in on You know the old school vampires the whole town was there heard Okay, okay, they just didn't go out and get victims. No, that was that they were harvesting from their herd They had heard and they're calling her they were doing all these things So, you know, again, they're very very territorial about that So that you can kind of really go off on that and again for our purposes a lot of this is symbolic But I think there is a lot of natural symbolism and storytelling especially with these monsters To give reference very much like groomed storytelling A lot of those are all horror. A lot of what art does is dramatize real life issues And this gets vampires are very accurate to close to be one of the women's personalities Another one is ghosts. How do you actually And I hate to say it I kind of had one personally myself. I actually came across her with my current partner Oh, yeah, you told me. Yeah, I just kind of popped up in that you just you Gotta exercise the ghost sticks of christmas pass for ladies Moving on Uh, what are you talking about just word garlic that'll keep the vampires If only yeah, you know, and unfortunately some of them it's it's like a You can put I say garlic, but it virtue, but a lot of them will be then challenged by yeah Okay, exhibit a yeah, and so you've got to watch that too now what this makes me think of two those I wonder and I don't know the story.  I don't know I don't know it probably and I don't know what I'll do Yeah, but the ones that have a chip on the shoulders that want to challenge that do everything I think I think it'll track it.  Yeah, yeah Yeah, she showed me her one time on tv. Yeah And and again another woman who's a natural right? Yeah, well, you know you mentioned uh Harley Quinn, but really a lot of the cluster people are more like the joker Yeah, probably Quinn and a lot of them were joker like but in Harley Quinn form So yeah, and when you'll see it too, they'll look like that one around Now let's get some more questions Sock I spent a lot of time on your smp map sexual marketplace map You should look at gravity wells as a model to describe the geography you mentioned creepy awkward. Oh, yeah Yeah, it actually does.   No, I don't think so Yeah, they had the Europe has a tendency to go to massive wars. So I don't know what's gonna look like, but it's it's gonna be ugly I I could see potentially if they do nothing, but I don't think that'll happen There will be pushback. Well, how many world wars have they been in? Well, it doesn't have to be a world war Well, your career was an exact, you know, yeah, there is in the 90s You want to look at it and you're gonna see ethnic cleansing and you're gonna see a political party get involved One way or another whether the elector or not and you'll have people pushing communities and protecting Their beliefs their their values their territory. Yeah, I wonder If the Germans are just gonna like snap because they are so they are so guilt-ridden from I've been there and they You feel this when you're there you talk about it all the time. I was raised in here, you know for a year So yeah, um, and you know and looking kind of back on it. It's kind of no wonder The best of their youth died in world war one and world war two. They were killed off The ones that kind of remained what happened, you know, and then they have to live through reconstruction and everything else And that plays on the national psyche without a doubt without a doubt You know and the amazing thing about Europeans is that they're incredibly nice up until the point they're not and they're more Unlike I think the a lot of the pat and I would say passionate countries of the Mediterranean And so forth like the Scandinavians the Germans the gay like Cultures is that Man when they turn it's it's cold-blooded. You know, my my mother kind of in norwegian background I remember when my great-grandmother died. She had two Boston terriers that everybody hated. They were nasty animals They really were But my great-grandmother's body was not cold yet still warm took Last breath dark, you know came in she's dead. She's gone They proper arms to get her right and then the the family was reaching for the dogs to go put them down that fast Within 15 minutes those dogs were on the way to the bed to be put that holy shit And you know just taking care of business. Uh, and when you get that sort of ruthless efficiency Deal with that in a seriousness associated with it. Uh, it'll make the holocaust look Very blaze Very blaze Yep, and in very in many ways, I think you're going to see things go medieval Which is terribly, you know, I hate to say it and I don't I'm not promoting this but it seems to be terribly appropriate You have a medieval philosophy invading Europe Okay with ideas that's not being challenged and countered appropriately enough He means specifically that islam is like Yeah, western civilization, and I'm not saying that it islam has not gone through a reformation. Yep Catholicism has gone through its reformation.  Now the question is is what will All right, let's uh, sorry, so fly go by there. Let's go to the next question Uh, by the way, thank you guys for creating a 21 convention platform. It came at a crucial time for me Power to you and you're welcome Uh Great listening you two live 18 taking the red pill reminds me of my transition to atheism Funny how we spent efforts on learning imagine what it could be Uh Will rolo tamasi be a speaker at an upcoming 21 convention From dude what to 212? Absolutely. He will be he'll be speaking twice to full talks Not not upcoming this upcoming. Yeah, this coming year. Yeah, this year one that's coming up in september He will be there. Yep. Yeah, that's that's going to be exciting. That's his first major public recorded appearance Photos videos you guys can meet him book signings all kinds of stuff So if you guys don't have tickets yet get them right now at the 21 convention dot org There's a link underneath the video and in the card to operate ticket tickets And yeah, rolo by the way, it's been I think I told you in private before this but rolo has been absolutely Uh, very supportive of the convention this year. Yeah, that's awesome. That's so cool I knew he he would do a blog about it and stuff But he really went he really went out of his way to promote the tickets promote the event Get the word out and i'm like honored and like floored because I love Wait, not only not only that but he's had other opportunities to do something similar with some really big names and really big companies I don't know for certain, but I think based on conversation I've seen between him and tyler and stuff on youtube I think he tyler wanted roll it up on speak For rsd at some point.  Yep. Yep.  I'll make the best event I can no matter what and I can you know, a lot of guys won't won't know this I can Tessify that very directly.  Hey, you need to scale this back You need to really take this into context and you know, when you do this I I admire the fact that you are but at the same time you're putting the whole movement and the idea at risk every time You put yourself out there And you need to be smart about it And so it's really gratifying to actually see you get some legs with this one And to really kind of see that ball moving forward and I'm really hoping to see that take place You know, I think it's gonna get in again. I think I think we're gonna sell out Which at this price point is is surprising at the price point we have 14.99 Part of that was to a funding event properly run the best event we can Part of it too was so that I could set a hard cap on tickets And then we wouldn't really hit it we'd get close or whatever, you know, ideally and then that's it. It's fun But I think we're actually gonna hit that this time even even if I expand which already have Expand the venue to the both sides so we get more twice as many people.  Yeah, and and the energy involved on that is going to be Unreal. Yeah, and it's like what do I do up the ticket price more like That's that's a problem and breach across. Yeah, it's like I would really sit down and you know Yeah, we'll cross it and get there, but it's like it it's already as high as I can make I think feasibly the product so We'll figure it out as the time goes on take us to the hallways. I think there are a couple of guys that Bring that up. Yeah, we'll get a hallway CD. Yeah. Yeah, they'll go to the real tent of it But just get the the hallway CD and hang out by the bathroom.  So Dr. Jordan B. Peterson at the 21 convention 2019 I am not opposed to that. I have try reaching out to him I think I found a few different ways I could do that and I might do that So I don't know if you watch his stuff at all lately. Yeah. Oh, he's a badass.  Yeah, great He's a psychology professor. I think I'm the candidate to even better. So yeah, actually has a site That's the other part. We're always missing for a long time. His red pill didn't have any scientific background It's like, you know, try to get a degree in that. You can't yeah. Yeah Well, you know the thing about the convention though is that uh You know part of the platform is I invite speakers from many different fields and many of those speakers carry PhDs Yep, you're absolutely. So it really brings and they still still speak knowing these other guys don't In times of really limited risk based on it I don't think you would speak if they didn't realize that you are doing a legitimate job presenting the admission I think the same every speaker that's coming they recognize is especially after the fact Like how serious the platform is and how professional this and that's why they speak regardless of also speaking so That marrying Medusa speech should go viral and those life-changing speech for money. Thanks, man I live in Iran.   It does suck, buddy. Wow Didn't think we had to reach there And I was talking about Islam So we'll take this question then we'll we'll round it out one. We'll close it out Uh, what is your personal view? I think these are for a year Okay Is the increasing promiscuity of society a positive or negative sign? I have my viewpoint negative, but I'm curious to hear your viewpoint perspectives Overall, I'm going to say it's a negative I think there's some awesome benefits because in a lot of ways this is a kind of reaction to A lot of the chastity that was not appropriate But if you look at the ratio of people trying to find happiness after having more than 20 sexual partners It's very difficult and there's a number of ways of saying yeah, you could say you can It's really difficult to keep the boy in the farm. What's he seemed the lights and pairs You know, that's kind of an old-school way of saying well, let's let's specify this out So you're saying boy in the farm, but this this probably applies more so to women than the men and it does Uh, you know, and the the interesting thing is that we know biologically. There's ramifications to it Um neurological pathways your expectations. So I don't think it's just necessarily this element, I'll just be happy or happy I I think there's a what do they call it a bracelet? Yeah Is is that there's some real significant challenges biologically from finding peace about finding contentment In relationships that are not sexually based and unfortunately, you know, I'll talk about this too is that Most strictly sexually based relationships are doomed to fail because there's nothing beyond that And so you're going to have to modulate that somehow and make personal choices You know, Nick Sparkson is uh, why following love stuff Sucks speech and mammy recently just came out on youtube. Everybody's been watching it really good He made a comment that always cracks me up because every all go back in the video Sometimes I'll check like a certain spot and see how it's playing and stuff And he says in the speech and that following love stuck speech. Um, they were there for him. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely He says uh, here's my room So, uh, what do you say he said uh People when they break up they want to always say this is very common.   He's like, that's ridiculous You weren't friends in the first place. Right.  It was all about the fucking you weren't friends anyway So to your point, yeah, and a lot of it's going to be dealing with context So we're taking one element completely devoid of any context You know as an architect, I really believe in in context in which you build or construct anything Uh, and so if we're going to be promiscuous and everything else, what's the context of this? I I was fairly promiscuous in my 20s. You know, how does that play out? For women riding a carousel. It can be very very difficult. I think world has talked about Yeah, you guys are the alpha widow alpha widow. You have you have all kind of that and that's that's very real But we also don't talk about what men do Is that we do have all these expectations And I you know have a number of personal friends that are getting up in age and they can't settle down on any one woman Because they don't meet the expectations that all the others had that formed as a composite And he's miserable and he and he's not satisfied. So I think there's some challenges there But on the whole It's not the nature of the sex or the sex acts. That's the problem. It's it's how we approach it What are we taking out of it? the emotional connotations associated with it and what do we expose ourselves biologically in response to a lot of that and that that shoots a lot of behavior The other is it's it's another for somebody to go out and thoroughly enjoy themselves sexually It's another for somebody to throw themselves sexually at a large number of partners to fill a hole Internally that they're trying to have an external response. I love your saying that It was a god gave a woman a hole in their self esteem and man the tool to fill it.  Uh, but at the same time, uh, women had or god has given women Of a jonah to embrace them That's a that's a It's a new one. Yeah, sometimes I gotta coach this And the interesting thing is is we're biologically animals geared and designed for each other Right now we have a And it doesn't mean we're equal. It doesn't mean it's fair. Uh, god knows life isn't fair. There's a Tremendous inadequacy. Well, the sexes aren't supposed to be fair and equal. They're supposed to be Complimentary that's different and as a unit they function very well now We can talk biological drives where the guys are truly supposed to spread seed over a larger number or fewer I've talked about some of that is that we tend to find That uh, off-streams tend to do better when there's more investment involved But you can over invest, um, you know, but at the same time, you know, we can look at a lot of it I I was relatively assaulted recently when I reminded a woman who said she was a feminist Uh, it was kind of thrown out there with the chip on our shoulder was that, you know, I'm a feminist What do you think of that?  You need feminism has has been brutal on women.  It's it's literally yeah, Marxism with the skirt Yeah, it really is. Yeah, and and it's it's a tool And it's so sold as philosophy.  If you miss your utility was on you miss your beauty You miss all that and nature doesn't care and lesser individuals are going to breed and I think there's a common friend of us are that talks about this is the future belongs to those who are engaged And aren't dedicated to it.   I'm just gonna watch it all and ride it down. I'm not that way and I'm not that way And in all in all honesty, I kind of get it and the reason why I got involved when I talked about Being virtuous because I wasn't virtuous My involvement all this was to improve my life to find solutions for myself So, you know, you can see my early talks particularly like the talk I did in or landed the initial one in austin Was me kind of going through the evolution of a lot of these things of having very very real concerns about marriage About law about politics our culture and saying man, you know at my age at a certain point I'm gonna have to decide uh, whether I'm truly going in alone.  I quit Uh, uh, make whether it's migtail or some some other element and I can guarantee I was not going to become blue pill I was not going to just sort of give myself up and kind of do it Well, yeah, because once you see it, you cannot see it Yeah, you cannot see it But at the same time, I wasn't willing to go back, um, you know in a lot of people And I know I couldn't go back home. I couldn't crawl back and I could come so that wasn't for me either So the other question is what are you going to do about it? Yeah, you know, and if you do nothing, you'll just float along and life will life will determine it for you You know in architecture, there's kind of a a nasty but true response is that if you don't Had provide a control joint in building material You know where natural break because of building, you know things move If you don't put one in where you want it the contractor will And should the contractor fail to do that? Nature sure should well And you don't want nature doing that for you. Um, I I believe in you know, this this element of Manifesting your own destiny, you know of controlling. It's not just going to be handed to you But seizing it, uh, and and you know striking out on your own, uh putting yourself out there and controlling it and preparing to Preparing up preventing. Yeah to take take on life. So, you know, my blog is based on that my talk are based on that The Miami Miami talk was the first time I talked not necessarily about myself, but to The generation primarily that was doing this, you know, the millennial generation and trying to find The linchpin to the sexual marketplace. What is it? You know, and where it can be found what what things and what is it? Quite interesting. It was a I know it was it was a it was a Venn diagram And a Venn diagram is when you take two spheres and put them together and you overlap is probably what they share in common But it goes to a belief that major issues in our life can't be resolved by one Discipline alone requires to because if one discipline can do it, it would have already been solved It's just a technical issue And an issue with the sexual marketplace, we have multiple factors come in and we have the individual at hand You know their generation, you know their viewpoint generationally coming in so as a millennial What does that mean and they get disparaged greatly in our society which is inappropriate That's that's in that's a reflection of the baby boomers Okay, and shame on them. Uh, and that's projection now Okay, and so but the millennials aren't taught that this is projection, but they're getting abused Millennials too. I'd say have yet to be able to prove themselves. We're still really young. It's not their time yet And that's absolutely right. Yeah, it's not their time yet generationally wise It's coming and we and we know the range in which it always is because it happens in every generation And then the second is this element of of biology You know that we're men women and we're animals and we have this biological nature to us whether it's hypogamy and hypogamy Those things are at play and then you have culture and so the combination between those three You're going to find probably your best source for finding a solution You know and and you can go to the fringes and probably find a close close second But if you're really looking for a linchpin, it's going to be kind of in the combination of those three But ultimately it's going to be up to the individual to find their linchpin In that area and that's something that they they they need to kind of look analyze and and determine So that that's what that talk was about Which by the way really in all honestly probably should be the second book I worked on Okay, yeah, so There's the first one. Well, I'll cross the review review on both That'll be awesome. It'll it'll be a thing It'll well, I'll have to meet him at a bar with We'll get him. We'll probably we'll probably have him speaker in 2018. No, that'd be fantastic. I would really welcome you Yeah, so one of the final questions we got is thoughts on the tv show Vikings and his depiction of masculinity and femininity I'm not familiar with it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you are. Yeah, I have to yeah. Okay. I love it Yeah, I actually really love the show interesting you have Take take the Vikings on that show absolute ruthless masculinity a culture is seeped in it And that's the hotbed for feminism Oh, it's reading. Yes. It's not a rape capital of the world. Yep. All right. I mean, that's probably not true It's the rape capital of the western world. We don't have stats everywhere else. Yeah, um, but yeah, you uh, remarkably that they went from a Really peaceful technologically highly cerebral educated group that embrace that now. We can also talk about Uh, the dynamic you don't see there associated with it and something I know we've talked about briefly Is in Vikings you don't have democracy. Uh, you have a absolute patriarchy in the form of monarchies and everything else that goes Down through them. Um, and women don't have a vote They can prove themselves and be seen as equals But they by god have to perform as equals and you have a major character that's doing just that Reminds me of what trump said, uh, some woman asked them during the campaign trail, you know, a woman getting it paid You know, what are you gonna do about women's equal pay? And he's like, well, if you work as hard, you're gonna get paid the same To shut it down and it's in my best interest to make sure that happens But you know, what you also see in vikings in particularly skin and navy as well Is that as soon as women got the vote within I think it's 15 to 20 25 years in general You start seeing socialized policies being enacted. Uh, and because they have a different Interest based on biology. Yeah, uh, that's straight playing out Well, their needs and their their focus is security and safety and by the way in number of ways skin and navy and women Have been very very good at controlling the women or the men that they meet with and that has affected policy Yeah, they're all wearing pink pussy. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. That's, you know, awesome It's funny looking back on it. We had the convention there. I didn't think much of it I just knew somebody the only guy new in europe at the time was in sweden I was like, oh, we'll just do it there. I didn't think much of it. I was already, you know, hostile towards feminism at that point But not as what we might suggest before they were really even aware of it before anybody was getting banned. I think Yeah, it was 2010. Yeah, so I think you went now. I think you would have a huge issue Yeah, I think you would be very difficult even a host of events there I'm even worried about doing the convention again in australia and sydney, okay Because it's a country now that's gotten more they the anti-feminist haven't and the guys like that Haven't had a lot of success. I think as of yet in that country So I'm worried now if I go there and bring red full speakers and we'll get banned Yeah, you're very well. You're very well, man. Yeah, just like yeah a couple of I get on a julien block a few others got Right, yeah, but I think in many ways they were intentionally doing which is unfortunate because it kind of poisoned them well And I kind of that goes kind of some of the stuff that we're talking about for the future of the 21 convention 21 university Yep, I think we'll be discussing in the near future on our joint So people don't notice but me and soccer doing a joint presentation at the 2017 How about that? Yeah together. So It's uh, somebody's been working on it's secret with sock and a few others over the past Since 2014. Yeah, it's been one. Yeah, we've been talking it's it's been a slow evolution towards it But yeah, it's been consistent and and if you know anything about anthony don't get in the way You either get on board or you don't but just don't get in the way and this is one in which You know, I'm telling you I know I'm on board for yeah, this is a good one to get on This is a good train. This is a good dream train. This is an awesome dream train. It really is I actually took that comment from you though by the way in your interview I put it in my speech Anthony being a young punk The future I I thoroughly expect you to have the up on the space station or do something from the space We'll see.   I could see you host an event up there, you know the segment or something Yeah, I'm not opposed to it. Even if you're orbiting. I just I think but And you're being honest that that is more symbolic of anything else Is that I don't think a lot of these ideas are going to combine And when we talk about for example millennials and kind of that generational purpose The millennials very much are coming to their age That they are going to be start taking the lead in a lot of this stuff Culturally and so when we talk about being barred from sweden or scandinavia or austria I thoroughly believe The first in its us freedom of speech is going to be probably central to your your generation.  He's got a million subscribers now. Yeah, 900 and some thousand You talk about ideas and caring weight and the ability to produce I know a long time ago. I talked about the power of the Gutenberg press I've been able to the first any friend was a bible to go for the reformation to literally bring the word of god to man Without an intermediary of the church and so the internet is doing beyond that It's not just the power of a tweet, but so much more. You know the fact that we're having an hour long Discussion about any number of ideas.  Yeah, or literally i ran. I think what was it? Yeah, someone's I'm still surprised by this. Oh, it's a 30 second delay other than 30 second. Yeah, which it's not even necessary I mean they can get rid of it. Uh, we'll take one more question. We got a cool one in here With uh, yes means yes How risky and how risky the college environment and court system is for men when it comes to false rape allegations How can men properly protect themselves when pursuing their dating goals? Uh, you are seriously screwed. Uh, you know in a very very real way I I literally obviously yeah, yeah, but it's it's a really serious issue Because it's not so much that she'd say yes at the time Women are giving credence to change their mind and still hold true in court. There's no requirement for facts There's no requirement for evidence and you will not be treated fairly under the court lie I talked about this in several ones The tampa talk I talked about emma and hurt, you know the mattress girl with some of the stuff that was taking place then And that has not changed. It's going to get worse. Um, we're seeing a little bit modifications But on the whole it's still terribly terribly risk.   This could be illegal. Yes It's also how it's used now the fact that you get this for yourself and for your protection and you store it in archive And that's it and you don't publicize it. I don't know if there's anything illegal there Depends on the state. No, no, there's wiretapping. Well, there's well, it's it's complex But at the same time, um, you know, there's this issue of how does how she why is this on your, you know, again Whose relationship is this? Why is it on your issue when you're at risk?  It's incumbent upon the the perpetrator. It's guilty. So so let's reverse the rules Now she is in a position to be in the perpetrator and the guy being the victim Whose responsibility is it still the guys, right? I don't think that's right That's all right at all.  If you don't get it right away They'll fish it out. They'll work on it one two three four five texts however many it takes Even though that might be hurting, you know, your long-term prospects with that chick You need that or you want that and I would say we're working for it put that in front of the sex Make sure you have those texts before it goes down Because trying to get it afterwards It's like trying to you know, I did work for anthony architecturally and I said here's our work and he goes and builds this stuff Me trying to get paid for the work I've done before I've handed him this the the instrument of exchange of service It's always pennies on the dollar You don't want to be chasing after because then you're also looking at as a perpetrator as you're being aggressively pursuing an answer She felt pressure to answer them So I'd rather have it done in advance. Have her say it. Have her record it Send a nude selfie All those sort of things get some news and quite honestly, you know, and here's here's a crazy part Having filmed a number of my exploits Sometimes do you not respect women?  Oh, yeah, be careful about the woman you sleep with so That's like that should go without saying like women have personality disorders Some guys don't really know that I didn't get that for years the prevalence of that and the severity and danger of that But even once they get that, you know Even women who don't have personality disorders still be dangerous and cause massive damage to your life so if women Have a chick you're interested in banging guys is not If you have any kind of doubts, it's good. It's good.    Yeah, uh, but you do want to make sure that you're engaging a target, you know So for example any sort of shooting with self defenses know what's being on the target know what you're getting involved with You know, you're you're going to take risks responsible for it and be responsible for it We used to always kind of worry about either diseases or children Um, those now aren't the big threat. Um, it's your incarceration. It's your college career It's your entire life can be absolutely slandered with no recourse, you know And so for example, you look at the duke lacrosse, uh images where um the case where they were accused Their careers were destroyed this morning event was destroyed And it was false And it eventually came out as if they were completely exonerated No, no no recourse And what happened to the woman? Nothing nothing That's probably gala sympathy and then no people forgot about it And that's not the only case and you know, that one's kind of old and it's going to happen again It's just a matter of time. Um, and and a lot worse. Uh, same things, you know with uh, for example, um When we talk about uh parental, uh, rights, uh, wiring hospitals So for example, uh, local hospital here has a serious problem that One in 20 children are being given away to the wrong parent Damn Now you aren't going to hear it said that way. That's a high Because they're not handing the baby to the wrong mother They're attributing fatherhood to the wrong man Same thing two different stories When you heal it the other one you want Yeah, and that's a hell practice. That's that's a mind control. That's guys And this is going to be another part of what I'll talk about in this coming talk Is about controlling your own hypogeum. Well, I've even read stories about uh, Recently stories even two that how men are denied paternity tests After the fact it's illegal in the interest of the children Yes, and the best interest of children right like right right now in this state I cannot run a paternity test without a signed authorized release from my partner That's crazy. That's wrong. That's wrong. Yeah, that is absolutely wrong, but you know equality ladies Yeah, well, this is why I think I don't know if it's role or someone says it in red pill But uh, just this is a masculine virtue. It's not a feminine virtue. I have say don't value it Yeah, that's right. Like they'll follow along maybe when a person there and then they'll cry They'll cry when it doesn't and by the way, that is a plea not to virtue Yeah, but to a man's virtue They're not exhibiting virtue To my point a minute ago too though guys, uh, I'm not that old, but I'm older than some of you watching this sock is definitely older than you guys watching this.   No, that's not the amazing thing. That's not the amazing thing That's actually possible. Yeah. Yeah, can you imagine I should yeah I've got issues with eyes because my profession requires the idea of A needle or anybody somebody's finger like if you start putting your finger, I'll get really upset Let's test it That's not the crazy part the crazy part Is this chick was luring something that she robbed mugged this dude Stole his wallet stole his credit card and she had and so I had the audacity call the dude back To hook up with them or supposedly so him to hook up with the chick that just mugged you Okay, only to get jumped a second time when her and her boyfriend are there I can't stand surprise.  So one of the things that I've realized since Medusa and then reading about other cluster B women Is that a lot of the times they're going to disguise Red flags in the form of green flags. So which really sucks, but you need to be aware of it. Yep. You mentioned tattoos So Medusa a lot of people don't know this had no tattoos ever In the end she had temper a henna tattoo But you know the last you know we for whatever after that actually broke up. She got a tattoo Um, so she never had any tattoos. She this is not obviously so pure pristine pale skin, which I like a lot Right, but what was this revealing? You know, I thought this was a green flag good No tattoos tattoos or for bad for bad girls. I don't want to be around that right All this was is narcissism. She had absolute obsession with her parents, right? To the point that she wouldn't get any tattoos not out of a pursuit of like a clean appearance But absolute maniacal like legitimate npd narcissism So that's a red flag It looked like a green flag, but as the red flag I understand the context. So that's where I talk about guys. It's not like That's tough. That's hard.  What has she done with it? How's the context? Tattoos now. I hate to say it tattoos aren't you? I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I like it done well, you know, you just if there's so much I can tolerate if you have a small one.  I just saw it.  I'm always thankful to reach out to people who are more knowledgeable than I am. Yeah You mentioned that I have a hell of a social network Yeah, sometimes I don't appreciate what it is. You really you've created that and not just sort of created by Hey, I wanted to go meet these people and everything else you provided value in return And what I find really remarkable is the age disparity in some of these cases that these are not Necessarily peer related millennia rarely are rarely are I mean and there's a number of them. Don't don't get me wrong There are but it is really you've been able to forge deep You know just reasonable connections and relationships with guys much more older than you are mature developed in their fields That are seeing what you're doing and by the way That's the way it should be. Yeah. Okay. That's absolutely the way it should be.  It's not just him.   There's nothing but a money and power transfer through the woman Doesn't do anything else. Well, and we know in a lot of cases because common sense socialists What I've actually run the studies and they've actually kind of promoted the the the think tanks for a lot of this Is that if you look at the winning which communities keep money involved like a particular community group How the money spent where it's kept and how it's gets reinvested into itself And kind of track that history women immediately spend what they get Or there's very little long-term thinking investment-wise. It's a much more shorter term spend-thrift and and it's emotionally based Economy as opposed to a rational long-term one well for thousands of years They haven't had to accumulate value. The other one is is that they're not tasked with those responsibilities And even when they do they haven't been accountable to the failures You know, for example, we can improve the you know, child poverty rate Getting millions of children out of poverty if we stop giving default custody to mothers That single fathers living and holding full responsibility to children on their own without without any sort of alimony or child support As opposed to mothers It's better on the file. Well, we can say well because they've had an education and jobs and everything else Well, we can say that but women are graduating with more degrees. That's right more in college That arguments are not holding water They make different choices and when we hold women accountable to the choices they make they don't like it And that's not just yeah, they don't I mean all of you know, a lot of femininity is offsetting So I kind of had to explain to her why I was kind of put on some governmental watch list and some issues and she couldn't understand I'm sure speaking this convention will cause that at any point No, no, no, no not at all. Yes, sorry.  I held the job. I haven't everything else, but a lot of that you sit down and go Any any more I'm becoming less less afraid of it Okay, you know, it would it would force some issues it would force some hardships But you know, if that's your counter to an argument, that's a form of violence and In this is when you have to act in violence to get An argument one you you've lost you've lost the idea Let's uh, let's kind of end this out We're a little bit over time. Let's end this out on a little bit gentler note You mentioned me being friends with and learning from older men. That's what I was hitting on too But I've done that as much as I can It's with some success. I think Um, you know some failures too. I've you know done this and that but some some good successes But you know speaking of older men It's like by Andrew the private man. Yes, a mutual friend of ours died a few weeks ago A few of the speakers as well. No, yeah, no, um and that's always kind of alarming and a lot of my speaker as well My speaker um and and what it's not just that is death I think that's was alarming because people kind of drop off This is a man who saw it coming knew he had terminal cancer knew he was fighting it And then the the question becomes is how does he live his life? What does he do with this time? How does he handle that? And that that is I I couldn't imagine kind of going through that He always kind of joked about it being kind of a scheduling issue But if you if you're close enough to him to actually talk and really kind of speak You know that was a lot of it was a front For your benefit in a lot of ways, but it's also how we handle it. And so In the Miami convention, uh, we're able to sit and talk for extended periods of time. Hey, we have it in video Yeah, no in video. Not in but I don't know you were talking thinking of that beyond beyond that And as much as I enjoyed that video And that's really kind of some of the discussions you've seen the hallway because it literally was a hallway conversation sitting at a table I'm going to be filming we had more more nights of exactly that much longer While we're playing chess while we're having some drinks Oh in the lounge in the lounge and just It that those nights were extremely long because of the discourse that was taking place um And so for me it was it was really kind of powerful to sit down Know he's dying of cancer have that time with and be able to discuss that scene Him with a bunch of these other guys Also realizing and having him realizing that this is going to be carried for And he had an integral part of that And for for me, he was an early voice on the internet Before I even really kind of understood what blogging was or that whole concept. I'm like, what you know, you kind of No, he was one of the voices I was kind of was uh attracted to because it was older I he had a completely different uh sense of perspective and frame and job and Mortgage and all those sort of things that I was already kind of we had the similar interests and backgrounds And so a lot of the stuff resonated because of his context And and so in that regard he was a light amongst um some really early Leaders and developers in the industry And he was more interested not just in pickup or a woman. He had a more holistic approaches to the quality of your life But he literally had a very late stage in his life completely transformed it. Yep. Yeah, that's really rare Yeah, really right and if you talk to him if you're around him, he's got a contagious personality This is not some bitter shriveled man who's angry with the world and is going to go out So for example, you brought up tom like this, uh, you know, and and I would say yeah Yeah, I know And here's a guy who's found a niche in his marketing business playing to it But I think very much a lot of his stuff is very better. He was very hard Okay, um where with andrew you knew he gets he was equally harmed in many ways You know, you don't come go through that without being hurt I don't know what monetary damages or anything else, but clearly this guy had multiple marriages You don't go through that without some damage. You get knocked up But it didn't it didn't hit his sense of place and identity and personality Uh, here was a guy who was terribly positive about life And had to kind of explain to a lot of people that you know yourself might might include is that He's in in his life and he doesn't want to get engaged in deep relationships Because of the limited capacity for fulfillment. Yeah, and so you kind of have to honor and respect that And you just sit down and say it was it for me it was Very moving to be able not only to spend time with him to see him because I I had met him Previously because I you put on him and previously. Yeah, some of the guys at the the miami event New knew who he was and then of course for his own wake that he hosted So, you know, here you have the the corpse at his own wake Some guys flew across country to come down and see him. Well that I had met previously So that was camaraderie amongst his family who had no idea of the second life of his Uh, he kept an amazing division between two. Yeah, it really had many cases You had to and that was a product of our of our time You know 10 years ago, you couldn't do the things that we're talking about now I would not be on film now 10 years ago because it would have affected my group without without it that what's funny from my perspective. That's funny, but Interesting to look at is that my whole adult life has been this right? I literally don't know anything else Right, but you're you're also not as soon as I could I did it. You're not beholding to anybody And that's that's a complete difference and that's some of the things we should talk about in conversations We end up having is Millennials have a completely different sense of career arts Education and jobs and how they do things that I'm not saying it's it's necessarily you have to follow a single track But you're you're a prime example of somebody who didn't follow the conventional track that the the things that are not Holding you back that hold guys like me even though I'm older more mature Are really significant. So you're you're giving Latitude and flexibility to maneuver and take up issues and promote causes that I simply couldn't it's interesting Uh, uh, because you get this but a lot of people don't it's interesting to look at One of the theories someone had in reddit looking at the medusa talk They went through it and you know how these you know sent me a few things He and it's not bad. I think it's plausible, but I'm still skeptical His theory was that medusa used me her her main supply. She didn't money out of me Uh, she had a lot of sex out of me along the millions, you know, not millions, but lots of other people too But I was like, what did she really get?  Like what do I do normal nothing? Very little What are we doing right now? Maybe something there maybe something there Maybe a more weird and that would be the cover I don't know it's it's that but I think that you know by having somebody else by her side it immediately gives cover Okay, um, is that you can explain things to her or from somebody else if she'd overstep the liner or something There's kind of covered that we have there, but I think another one is I would say she isn't Uh, if you look at you know, then we're speaking very directly about a individual Probably very unfairly uh without her presence, but I would talk to her if she was right here, uh, no shame Is that she went from one relationship to another fairly short order. Um, and so People who are not dependent don't do that. Yeah, super dependent. Yeah. Yeah, she's super. I mean, this is Narcissist supply means she needs that stability.  This is good there. I think very much you you anchored somebody who's very much lost and been had been buffered Or this would speak to to what greg's one says about being a moral compass that you could not without enough And I think it was stability. I think it was safety. I think it was security all these very human things That I think she did not have in her youth I didn't think she had in her childhood And I know she didn't have in the the choices of the other men she chose in her life And of course, then what does she do? Um, and the guy she chose this time a good luck Yeah, um, you know, not a moral not a moral dude not stable not interested, but I still don't send him a clue Yeah, and that's not a problem. That's not I don't feel bad for him Uh, he was more more than willing to predatory go after somebody else. I was either and that was the attraction I won't either unless he ends up dead if he ends up I'm see that's why I still yeah, I see you're gonna be on it. I'm totally like no, you can just gut it and raw And die.  It is. I know it's possibility. Yeah, yeah, very well, maybe, you know God knows, uh, but yeah, I just I don't It's unfortunate. I don't think he's not the end Yeah, unless something happens, uh, I think it's a segue without a doubt. Oh, yeah, totally Totally, they don't probably work out.  I'm totally good with death or continued off the street You know, whether you're happier in hell, I'm not looking for justice. I don't expect justice.  Um, and and you clearly are Uh, someone's asking some questions Was Medusa the psychopathic chick that screwed the one guy over as he spoke about in his lecture or is that different cluster B nightmare? No, that's Medusa. Yeah, I mean, you can also call the cluster B woman, uh, Lucifer's daughter Is a common term Medusa now is taking taking taking on pretty well But I meant that specifically for her The M fit her first written name originally. I was like, oh, that's good.  So you you got to cut the head off You got you got exercise, you know, when you know and that in that has to Yeah, but Lucifer's daughter is another good one for generally speaking about cluster, uh cluster B woman That one that was escorting escorting prostitution on the side Yep Anyway, enough about her Andrew the private man any last words about him We'll talk about like so I mentioned to the convention's dedicated to this Yeah, it will be uh, you know the interesting thing is the the outreach a lot of people have for for the idea so, um I I am terribly impressed with not only the man in which the guy lived his life with his willingness even late at life In his position not being in shape not being particularly good-looking. Uh, you know, he was he was gifted with the same quality of hair I do and that's Looking great, man. I know you guys Yeah, no, it's just a lot of manual labor at the house But yeah, you you sit down and say he had every reason to sit down and lay on any any number excuses He could have done and he didn't both in his uh failures in life and successes in life how he how he turned out and said I'm still alive I'm still kicking. I'm gonna improve my life and did that and not only that Shared that information shared that wealth. He wasn't migraily with it I can attest to this too that even at the I saw him on march 20th I was lost on my song so two weeks before he died or not even yeah, and he was still high spirits done Still laughing. I was still trolling them as I bring some glute free beer.  Does he go any picks him up?  Yeah, I mean, here's a man who died of cancer decides to pick up smoking. You know, I told that Why not?  What are you gonna die from it? You know, and so he did that but he also faced his death Remarkably, I'd say so as well. I I don't know if I'll have the same courage But where I leaned on him Because of this blog post and his advice on dating and women I without a doubt will carry his example with me through life Yep, so that I I hope to God that I'm not a sniveling mess at the end of mine that I can go into a long good night And that'd be as admirable as he was And that's that's that's that's what happens when you have really good As an example you you carry that with you and in many ways, I don't think it's necessarily a life or death thing I can probably apply the same mentality to any number of hardships. Oh, yeah And so yeah in that regard, it's so yeah, I can look at his death and my friend Curtis's death My best friend back in 2008 the died of cancer as well at a young age Both of them I was like even at the end with him, you know, eating lunch with them and the private man down a Mami, I was like, this is a lot like Curtis Like he's keeping this mentality and this mindset all the way to the end You know, nothing is taking him off that track and I'm sure he's scared of shit No doubt I just don't know about it and even if I did I would not hold that against I wouldn't either So, you know in in that regard the 21 convention has done that as well and that's not a talk You know other than you know, he gave a presentation coming around him, but that wasn't the nature of his talk Uh, and so, you know, it's almost kind of a shame that well, it isn't in a fundamental way I mean, he gave the talk towards the end of his life. Uh, it was the best he could put together I need a good job. Absolutely.  I just just terribly admirable and uh, something I I was really proud to not only kind of partake in and be a witness to But then had the awesome opportunity to talk to him about his talk and speak with him multiple times throughout that I uh, I gotta say like I've never been prouder than of my little mousetrap I built 21 studio has a 21 dimension then to be used or leveraged by a man who's dying To immortalize himself in a way, which he specifically asked me to do when he last time Last thing he said to me was make sure I live forever. Yeah And this is the man worried about his future and legacy and his contribution to mankind Is his measure of intelligence and wisdom and is presented for free You know that that was the other part is this is a man who had you know He may have gotten some paid for a little bit of coaching but on the whole didn't have a business setup for this This was something personal to him personal and uh intellectually spoke Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and so for for me kind of in that same vein that that resonates completely Yeah, you know actually one that out on this and then we get going. I know we're waiting for more I'm so over time You know big pickup guy contact me today. I've talked to him before too about speaking at the event and uh, I'm like, yeah, it's I don't think it's gonna work out this year. You know, maybe you can come check out the event blah blah blah, but He seemed fixated on the idea that you know being this bad icing pickup, which he is That would be qualification to speak at the convention and it's not necessarily so it doesn't It's not a criteria that I'm going by how many chicks you bang or whatever. Yeah, right Doesn't matter to me. I'm interested in the ideas Which sometimes will definitely and directly correlate into you, you know, the speaker banging tons of chicks and then bringing the lessons learned to the table from that, right? But that's just one pathway to doing that Rolo for example has been married for 20 21 years or something like that I don't think he's banging chick in 21 years as far as I know as according to his blog when I seem right So he's still definitely welcome as a speaker independent of how many when he's banged recently It doesn't matter to me. I'm interested in the ideas and what's right Yeah, and I would also say it's not just a lay count if you're talking pickup that sort of criteria It's how well can you teach it?  You know, it's it's interesting. I've seen some guys that were phenomenal at pickup or any number Whether it's pickup and we just haven't talked about that Phenomenal about a newer area of interest Well, it's not convenient to not teach that couldn't resonate They didn't weren't able to form that connection with people And so very much I think the speakers you have at these events are able to do that and that's why they're so powerful Yep, exactly. Yeah, but uh, yeah if that speaker's, you know listening or you know, here's a Show up and attend. Yeah show up and attend.  I was taught uh fairly early on my professional career To do a palm up marking You you you offer value before you solicit value, you know So for example, a lot of these networking events everybody goes around exchanging Cards what can you what can you do? Can you hear what what are you working on? You can put me on and nobody wants that it's just it's just kind of a I don't know It's it's tiresome. It's lazy. It's it's it's just weird And there's kind of been completely different of Finding somebody and finding out what they're interested in providing value to that before you ask anything of them And to one kind of measure that and then you kind of get to understand each other Based on those shared values or that that relationship structure rather than the exchange value that you were attempting before And so I would sit down and say for anybody who's honestly really wanting to come and talk That has those sort of street creeds that has a business and you know, obviously can provide value Show it by coming up not necessarily to brand or market, you know, obviously that'll occur But to sit down and be and literally an attendee at an event I think there's something terribly powerful to that because this isn't just a conference. It's it's it's very much in a movement Read through some comments here Oh someone said the youtube entrepreneur in cars is an interesting guy seems to fit with your genre. He is a speaker this year Oh, really? Richard Cooper. Yeah from uh, yeah, Richard Cooper from entrepreneurs and cars. Yeah He's a red pill aware and a huge advocate of it. It's amazing how far that spreads. Yeah I'm always amazed at a number of people and just so many different industries Well, so he's a you know, he's running a channel that has to deal with entrepreneurs and cars He goes beyond that too and I did video blogs and stuff So he's speaking at the convention. He's super advocate of red pill. He loves it He's your age too. I think somewhere in his 40s, I think But he's not speaking on pick up or red pill or anything like that. He's speaking on entrepreneurship business. Yeah So, you know, a super huge fan of that but just speaking nothing new of that Or very maybe some but very little as far as I know So with that said, I think we need to wrap up. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm sorry about that. Yeah Everyone thanks for joining in on the live stream appreciate your time tuning in live As you guys watching it later. Thanks for watching the whole video get all the way through it If you guys don't need your tickets yet get your tickets to the 21 convention 2017 Meet me meet Socrates meet rollo me and when we say meet is more than me meet and spend time. Oh, yeah Yeah, it's it's really spend time and connect with us. It's gonna it's gonna be awesome. I'm really looking forward to it I'm almost bummed out that I bumped it to september I mean, it's gonna be good that we're doing september But like I want to do it in july now, but I can't bump it back I mean, give me an idea how serious I am about it.   No, I believe in it that much You know the connections there I get as much as I give You know for a lot of it. It's really true And it's just something I thoroughly thoroughly believe in You know just as a movement as a cause and everything else and so My office is aware of that that may you know made very much aware It's been it's been an issue in the past occasionally Oh, you're the sock man. I gotta get out of the way Well, yeah Actually, you know, I actually had a client recently Uh, kind of just brought that up on the side.   Wow, oh I mean that was just a stop and they go my son listened to your stuff And he was I'm just saying I he was I get to work with you on a professional capacity And my son wants to know I'm like that's that's badass.  I don't know what to make That reminds me when the porn star got me down in Miami after so Andrew When I she found my lay report I wrote This is not awesome Just like that trolled the shit out of me It's it's funny what kind of fame in that regard kind of does you know Just you know talk about completely increasing value I you know and stuff that I still don't kind of get you know We use this that I go occasionally it occurred but every time it does it just seems really odd Yeah, you know, I've just I I haven't been immersed in that area in that culture for enough to it be kind of normal Soon we'll keep it in the lab. Yeah, we'll keep it. Well, that's it. Thanks for coming. Yeah. Thank you very much Thank you sir. Thank you guys for showing up See you guys get tickets in the description beneath this video to the event Meet me meet sock do all kinds of cool ship four and a half days We're gonna take it in the card top right hand side of the video.  Yep, really will be all right guys. Good night. Roger. Peace out closing out the podcast