Okay, well hi everybody. Welcome once again to our all day movie workshops. I'm Peter and I'll be your host today. And yeah, I can just describe how the day is going to flow for those who are new. So we're going to start with a movie with David and then afterwards we'll have a 10 minute break. And then we're going to go into our breakout rooms where you can share what came up for you during the movie any emotions. After that we're going to have a 45 minute break. And then I'll be holding the closing session today where if there's anything else that's there to share with the whole group we can do that then. So we can start straight away and I'll pass it over to you David. There we go. We're coming to you live. I'm so happy to see you all see your smiling faces and see your waves and it's fun greeting you from wherever you seem to be in the in the world. We have a beautiful movie today. And there was a lot of prayer time going into today's movie because of the themes that you voted on. It's always interesting to look at the themes that are really on people's minds and let that guide us and point us towards our area of healing. So we've been guided today to to really look at at a movie that is really a key in undoing people pleasing, because oftentimes people pleasing is such a such a familiar way of relating to the world that we don't always see the fear and guilt that's underneath the people pleasing, but it must be that it's there if we are looking to people to provide our safety to people to provide our security. The themes are even blowing off the disabled ego doesn't want us to look at these today but these themes are very important if you're going to be happy. And so we're willing to take a look at whatever we need to take a look at to be free to feel the genuine happiness and freedom. So I will start off as usual by reading the combined poll. This is combined English Spanish and online drive. So we tally them up and then you let us know what it is that you're most interested and most drawn to in terms of healing. The prayer is show us the movie spirit that will help us get at these these themes. So the number one theme, the most votes of anything went to letting go of responsibility for others. And there is a huge amount of guilt that is associated with responsibility for others. There's a section in the course in which Jesus talks about the responsibility for site you are responsible responsible for opening your mind to spiritual vision to the vision of Christ. But in order to do that, you have to realize that your soul responsibility with regard to your personality with regard to your family, friends, all the people that seem to surround you in your daily life. And all the other billions of people on planet Earth are all coming down to one responsibility, which is accept the correction in your mind. It's a, it's a tweak in the mind is one small tweak and Neil Armstrong landed on the moon he put his, his little moon boots down in the moon dust for the first time and then he said the words, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. And it seemed like a pretty big deal, putting some footprints on the moon, after having stared up at the moon for so many centuries. But what Jesus is saying is we need to, we need to have a tweak in our perception of the world. I was talking about this 2000 years ago, when he said, before you get the spec out of your brother's eye, get the beam or the log out of your own. He was saying, you have to make the correction in your mind. You have to blame or judge your brother or sister, before you tell them off, before you tell them what's wrong with them, before you tell them what they have to do if you're going to, if they're to stay around you, or what what's required of them.  And that's our sole responsibility. So, big one, letting go of responsibility for others. And people tell me that just seems like just the way things are, that aren't we responsible for, for friends, aren't we responsible for loved ones, aren't we responsible for children, aren't we responsible for our house or our apartment or our car. Aren't we responsible for our bank account. That's what the belief system of the world teaches and Jesus is saying, actually, you have only had one responsibility all along. And that's to find the inner piece of your natural state of mind, which is experienced through the correction or the atonement. And he describes the atonement as the first miracle and the last miracle and all the miracles in between. So, you know, it's, it's complete. It's not like a solution where you find yourself going. What's next, there is nothing next after the correction. The correction is the point of everything. And once you allow your mind to accept the correction, which if some of you are doing the workbook lesson that's lesson 139 of the workbook lessons. I will accept the tongue and for myself. That's that's as straight as it gets right there. Even after 139 lessons, he's not even close to 365 he's cutting to the chase. He, he spills the beans in lesson 139. He says this is really what it's all about. Okay, second theme coming in with a little bit less votes was fear of getting it wrong. This is where you have this kind of creepy suspicion in your mind where you wonder am I am I going to get this. And, and whenever you have this fearful doubt thought am I ever going to get this, then what is really playing out in your mind is fear of getting it wrong fear of getting it wrong in the future. Am I am I going to mess this up. Am I going to really mess this up and and be out on the limb with no way back. Like a cat, who goes climbing a tree and goes way out on the limb, and then seems to require a fireman to come along with a ladder. He had out in a very difficult position, but this is what happens when you have a fear of getting it wrong. And it just gets projected on to the future. Like there could be some horrific outcome that will come from you following the Holy Spirit. And of course the ego is is the one generating this fear of getting it wrong. Number three, how to keep my heart open. That's so beautiful. That's, that's a prayer right there. Every day, every moment of every day just to pray to the Holy Spirit. Please keep my heart open, open to give and open to receive open to be shown. Please show the way keep my heart open. We pray to keep our heart open and we pray for the connection with the Holy Spirit is because when we feel close, we feel shut down. We feel disconnected. We feel just out of sorts. We don't, we don't feel in harmony. And once we feel this egoic sense of fear, then it seems like our heart has closed and we are on a defensive mode. We're just trying not to do something trying not to die. That's not a really fun way to live trying not to die. Because that's very heavy. We're worth more than than the fear of dying. We're worth more than just survival. We're worth more than than avoiding things. You know, it's funny in this world. When you go along and the older you seem to get, it's like the world has lots of advice on what you shouldn't do. Don't get older. Don't do this. Don't do this. You'll be in trouble. Don't do that. Don't do that. And then some point people say, how is this living? If I, if I'm living with fear over my head, if I'm living, you know, afraid to face the next day, how, how exactly is this living is how exactly is this joy. It's not. So that's an important prayer really how to keep my heart open. The next theme is becoming a true healer and miracle worker. And I would say to be a true healer and a miracle worker you, you have to be pretty clueless you have to surrender yourself over to Jesus and Holy Spirit, and say, I really don't have a clue here, but I know that you're in charge. So, thank you for allowing me to be clueless. And, and thank you for doing performing all the miracles Jesus because I haven't a clue how to perform them. And Jesus is like, thank you for allowing me to direct miracles, because I know exactly where they can be bestowed where they can be most helpful. And I honor you and I thank you for your cluelessness and for your devotion. It's when we think we know from our past learning what a miracle worker is. That's when it gets really difficult. And that's where it kind of blows up in our face, because all it is is the ego trying to masquerade as a miracle worker. And if it's based on past learning you can you can know for sure that it's ego trying to slip in there with another self concept. And the last one is receiving 60 votes total Holy Spirit given assignments. Every week now we seem to be reminded by Jesus how important our mighty companions are. You know as I look at all of you on the screen, I have such gratitude and appreciation because it's willingness to start to say I am worthy of the symbols of help. I am worthy of those that are walking side by side that are not content to just play along with the matrix of time and space, but are actually willing to, to pray and go for it you know where that's what the mighty companions are there just a whole group of symbols that are telling us that we are on an inward journey that is most precious and most dear, and it's just a reminder of us, the feeling that we want to experience in this moment. And we see it in each other's faces and we see it in the laughter, and we feel it in the joyful encounters that we have. And we say thank you thank you thank you every time someone reminds us. That we're loved reminds us that we're safe. We just say thank you. That is so helpful to hear that to read that to be reminded of that. Today's movie is called insurgent, and this is part of a trilogy of movies I believe it's a trilogy right there's three of them. There's three. I know, I remember seeing the very first one. What I think it was divergent and divergent. What a beautiful word divergent, because if you think about the ways of the world. A bigger, better, faster, more accumulate, achieve, accomplish, save, protect all of the teachings of the ego are basically about ownership and possession about getting more about accumulating more. More more more, you know that's the game of the world is more, more skills, more abilities, more money, more possessions, more education, you know, more more more. And then there's something inside of our hearts that just starts to go. I don't really think that's the answer. I don't think more is better. In fact, we even have phrases called less is more. We start to hear, hear different phrases and jump out of this, where we're like yeah I like that less is more. We simply wanting to live a simple life just wanting to live a simple, happy, peaceful life that you start to see that that's the meaning that you would go for that's where your goal is that's where your heart is is simple, peaceful, happy. So, in this series, Tris, her official name is Beatrice prior. I like that her last name is prior. That really PR IOR. That's what Christ is Christ is prior to time. I am presence before Abraham was I am. That's prior to time our identity is prior. The first time I've seen a main character of a movie with a last name like prior and tris is short for Beatrice. So tris is is our, our heroine of the dream. She is going to be the one today just like Truman did it for us was our hero of the dream, showing us the way out to leave the dream behind. Just like say Francis was our hero of the dream, showing us way to live a saintly mystical life, living the simple teachings of Jesus Christ today tris is going to be our, our model our example for undoing the ego and undoing the world of time and space. So, in the first movie tris in the divergent movie. We find divergent is is different from the classifications and divisions of the world. She doesn't fit well into a category or a personality set or into a certain box group of people. And she seems to have an ability that is very important and that is called mind training, she has, she has a strong draw into mind training. And she saw in the divergent movie that preceded precedes this movie that she was given a series of tests to test her, her mental strength to test her, her courage to test her, her stamina. She was given a series of simulations and probably the, the most famous one. I think that's the one Anna was referring to one little snippet in the divergent movie is, is when she is seems to be in a simulation where she seems to be trapped in, in a tank of water. And, and the water is rising up rising up in the tank and soon she submerged in the water and then a thought comes to her that was a seed planted in her mind that it's not real. But that's what gets her out of the simulation is that that's what transcends the fear and allows her to escape that particular simulation, where everyone else doesn't escape. And she escapes with the thought is not real and simply touches the glass and then the, the whole tank, the glass in the tank explodes, and she's under no fear of drowning. Well, we have this in a course of miracles we have the, the introduction of a course of miracles. Jesus says, this course could be summarized in the following, nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exist here in lies the peace of God. So he's planting the seed in our mind that can release us from the simulation of this world, this egoic world. It's there, it's there in the introduction, the escape hatch from time and space is in the introduction to a course of miracles. It's at the end of the introduction. Thank you Jesus that's a nice place to put it. Give it to us up front. He puts it in the introduction of all places. And that's the same idea that tris uses and the virgin in the in the first movie divergent to escape the simulation. And in this, in this movie we're going to watch today, which is called insurgent, we pick up with with tris. And this movie really really relates to our five themes. She has her assignment. She has her assignment already. And his name is for and for we're going to even meet for his mother is in this movie.  But basically for is tris is Holy Spirit given assignment that they have, they have met, and they are together. And now they are mighty companions to one another facing all the mind training obstacles, all the fear, all the guilt together in in a journey together side by side. So, we have for who is with tris and, and then we have the environment they seem to be living in which again is this city that is surrounded by a wall, very high wall. And we've seen this kind of scenario in a lot of other movies, the given. We've seen there's like a force field surrounding the main area this is a city that's in some decay, where there are factions there are different groups that have been brought and been really dictated based on personality traits for survival of the group. So the ego is the one that tries to make up a society, make up a world and tell you where you fit into this world and tell you what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And what would benefit the whole ego will tell you and what is not good for the whole, not good for anyone. It's a system of control it's a system of rules. It's, it's a city of division. And this is great because every movie we watch, we get to see a city of division, a family of division. We see a couple facing divisions, and this faction system is designed by the ego to give a false sense of control and peace, but control of form and peace do not go together. There's a big deception going on when we think that we need to control the world in order to be peaceful. We want the kind of peace that comes from inside of us. It comes from our connection with God from our connection with the Holy Spirit and Jesus, and is not formed dependent, but the ego teaches that you have to construct the world and control the form to keep the peace. And this is why in our world of perception fragmented perception, we have organizations like the Peace Corps, or the United Nations, why we have governments that sometimes want to talk to each other and cooperate, and sometimes they want to fight and defend. But sooner or later, we realize that that this perceptual world of fragmentation is not our home. It doesn't feel natural to be interacting with the world of fragmentation. We're getting dissatisfied in our heart, in our soul, about interacting with the world of fragmentation. And Jesus helps us out. He says, yeah, you will look upon that which you feel within. You, if you have a fragmented mind or a split mind, if you have a fragmented perception, then you will perceive a fragmented world and this will not satisfy you. You will never be content with differences. You will never be content with divisions. You will never be content with separation because God didn't create you to be divided or different or separate. God created you as the Christ to be one, to be forever one, eternally one, and this fragmented world is not satisfying at all. There's nothing natural about fragmentation. And yet, we will start this movie out with a fragmented city of different factions that are sometimes quite suspicious of each other, and sometimes even antagonistic toward one another. Even though the ego's storyline is these factions have been created for peace, to maintain the peace. What we know from Jesus is that it's all a projection. There are no factions. There's no grouping of personalities that will bring peace. It's an equation that will work, and thank heavens that we're told by Jesus it will not work. Now Divergent is one who is not so much into the programming and conditioning of these factions, but is open to something beyond. Divergent is like an inner calling that is taking you beyond separation and beyond fragmentation toward harmony, toward the light. So in one sense, you know, here we are, we're all mighty companions to one another, and we're all Divergent. We don't fit into the world very well. Does anybody have that feeling you don't really fit into the world. So we're in that sense we're Divergent, you know, we don't, if they took a test of us to test where we fit in best, it would probably come out and does not fit in. Somehow is not of this world is misplaced in this world. So some of you didn't get to see the first movie. That's all you need to know from the first thing is, it's about divergence, the title is Divergent, and it's about not sitting in and having a transcendent calling that doesn't fit into the factions and the, the separated concepts of the world. So you didn't miss anything. Triss is now going to put, now we're going to kick it into gear that's shifted into gear for the mind training. Let's, let's take our Divergent calling, which is really our calling out of the world and into the Holy Spirit is happy dream. Let's see how how Triss is going to handle herself and, and how her mighty companion for is going to handle himself in the in the first movie we didn't really. We didn't really see for his mother, but Evelyn is making her presence known. Here comes Evelyn. It's interesting. My mother's name was Evelyn to so Tobias Tobias to mom. It's not for it's it's actually Tobias is the birth name. I think my mother Evelyn to she always would call me David, even though I'm the one. But she didn't go one time for breakfast one. She called me by my birth name. And so does Evelyn call Tobias by his, his birth name. She's not calling him for.  And Evelyn in this movie she's, she's got a real rebellious kind of attitude. She believes that the way to overcome the, this, this crazy faction system is through rebellion. Has anybody tried rebellion. I think I tried that too. I tried rebellion, you know, and it didn't work very well. It didn't work.   That's life. That's life. That's what all the people say, you're riding high in April, shot down in May. But it goes when you try to rebel against the world, you, you usually get shot down at some point, because we don't wake up through rebellion, you know, we tried it. We tried it on our own, but deep inside we've known we'd be back to set things straight. We knew forgiveness was the way, and we tried a few other ways and they didn't work. We were about forgiveness release the world, release the thoughts of time release the thoughts of space, release the judgments release the grievances all the sounds so pretty because it is pretty. It works. It actually works. That's why we're we're on this journey of release. And that means we're willing to release the self concept of what we believe we were the roles we played the concepts we held we're willing to release all of it in order to find peace of mind. We're willing to empty our mind of everything we think we think and think we know, and come with holy empty hands and to our God, like in lesson 189 the workbook. So, Tris has got her mighty companion her partner for or Tobias. And then we have Janine, who is basically, she's the one that runs the matrix world here. She, she, she sends the messages out to all the factions. She's the one who's in charge and control of maintaining the status quo of this factions world. And Evelyn was she and Evelyn have clashed other times I think Evelyn would rather be in Janine's position. This is going to be a female cat fight like you, you've got my you've got the point of power I want the point of power. We know that there is no power in this scheme that we have to release the world to find the power of God. It's not personal power. It's not power over people it's, it's the light in our mind that's powerful. The bottom of heaven is where all power resides, not on earth. It's a joke to think there's power on earth, or powerful people. That's another trick. And, and as we see as we go along, there's some other characters that are that are very important. We find. This is brother will play into this equation. We also see there's a someone who's been part of the divergence for a while. And his name is Peter, and Peter is like the character that likes to play both sides. You never know, you never know where Peter is, you know, Peter's like, I'm with you I'm with you but he's kind of sarcastic, and he kind of pokes tris a lot, and then he can slip pretty easy to go to go help Janine out and maintain the faction world. Tris his brother Caleb, he's a sweetie.  He's just adorable and, and in the previous movie, we saw that that Tris his mother and father were both killed. And there was another man named will who was also killed. And so, Tris has a lot of guilt around believing she had some part to play or some responsibility in the death of her mother, and the death of her father, and the death of this man named will. And this is the guilt. She is taking on to herself, the belief that she is the blame or she is the cause of harm coming to loved ones like her mother, her father and this man named will. So this is a good extreme example in this movie of someone who is carrying around a lot of unconscious guilt, because she believes that her actions actually were causative in the death of those that she loves. And this is important to start to really face this belief. Because last week, I was reading from the course, while I was doing the movie gathering and I was talking about the hero of the dream section from chapter 27, and I was talking about the dreamer of the dream which precedes it, the preceding section from chapter 27. And then the dreamer of the dream section Jesus tells us about the correction that we're going for he tells us about the atonement and how to reach it. How to keep your heart open. That's one of our things how do we keep our heart open. Jesus says you are the dreamer of the world of dreams. No other cause does it have or ever will. So he's telling us that if you really want peace. If you really want happiness that will never end.  And then the next section he shows us the opposite. It's called the hero of the dream, where he says, the hero of the dream has all these serial adventures and different situations and events. But the hero of the dream basically is here to teach you one lesson that you are an effect of the world and not its cause. Basically, the belief that your body is just a variation of form of the of the attempt to teach your mind the lesson that you are at the mercy of the world. And it doesn't seem that way if you identify with the body. Don't you seem to be then at the mercy of weather temperature food money. You should be at the mercy of a whole variety of forces that are beyond your control. If you identify with the body. And Jesus is saying that's how the ego set it up. The hero of the dream finds itself in a serial adventure of many events and circumstances. All of them are designed to teach the mind one lesson that you are an effect and not the cause. And Jesus is telling us it's not true. You're the dreamer of this dream. And you're just perceiving this dream from your mind. And you can pull the plug on the dream anytime you want. You you aren't at the mercy of the dream, because you're dreaming it. And if you're dreaming it you must be able to change your mind about it, because the world, the dream world was made in hatred was made by the ego is made by fear. And, and you don't have to continue to hold that purpose you can actually change the purpose for the dream once you admit that you're the dreamer of the dream. Once you admit that this entire historical time space dream is is a dream and that you're dreaming it then you can change your mind for it. As long as you try to play the hero or the heroine, which is what Tris is trying has been trying to do in these movies divergent now an insurgent she's trying to play the hero, but it's not going well, because she feels like she messed up. She messed up she she had something to do with her her father's death her mother's death and this man named will. And she is feel so bad about this that she can't even talk to her holy relationship partner about it. She's, she is stuffing down and keeping in secret. The idea that she is a murderer. And this is the, this is the human condition. All human beings are just outward projections of a deep feeling of I had some deep dark level, I have been the murderer. It's too easy to just point the finger and say, Oh, Hitler was a murderer, not me. It's too easy to point to Saddam Hussein say, Oh, there was, there was a murderer, or to a someone bin Laden. Oh, there was a murderer. It's, it's too easy to point to Joseph Stalin and saying, Ah, murdered millions of people over in Russia. It's too easy. Jesus is like, come on. Snap out of it. Don't keep blaming the tyrants. Don't keep blaming the terrorist. You've got to face the terror in your own mind of believing you separated from your source. Don't blame your spouse.   Don't brain blame the serial killers. Don't go blaming something in the world because you're the dreamer of the dream. You can stop this nonsense anytime you want. But you have to face it. You, you do have to, you have to be able to forgive. And in order to forgive, you have to be able to honestly say I have done this thing and it is this that I would undo.  You don't stay with part one, because you'll feel terrible. I have done this thing. Under stress. She actually believes that she had a hand.   And Jesus is saying, you are not a killer. I mean, really, I know, I know God and I know the truth and I know you are not. You are not a killer. That is not the way God created you. You, you were not created to kill. You were not created to separate. You were not created to be different than God. You're, you're created in spirit. And if you think you can take on a form and live apart from that light, he said it's a mistake. It's called miscreation. It's a mistake that's already been corrected too. So don't, he's like saying, don't, don't hang on to the mistake. Just give it back. Give it back. Give it over. Just say, I, I give over this mistake that I, I was a murderer. I give over this mistake that I, that I had an ill intent that I could be, have a will apart from God. I give it over. So we will see in this movie that Tris is going to have to face her guilt, and she is going to have to face her private thoughts.  It seems to be a version of herself in order to release that version and forgive herself. All forgiveness is self forgiveness. Even when we believe we're forgiving another, we're just forgiving our mind for that belief in miscreation. Even when we believe we're, we're letting somebody else off the hook, we're letting our mind off the hook. We're actually seeing our mind is still pure. It's still pure. We have not done the thing that we thought we did. We were very, very mistaken.  It's, it's the whole thing has been a lie. It's just there in a meditative state to think, wow. I still couldn't change the truth, even with all this effort, all this, all this rebellion, all this energy I put in to trying to build something on my own, build an identity on my own. You know, to think that that our world could be centered around a puppet. That's a lot of energy going into a puppet. And yet that's what our programming is told us you got to feed the puppet, close the puppet, educate the puppet, you've got to proliferate the human race. Procreate with the puppets, make more puppets. Oh my God, what an effort was put into all that, and all for nothing. Much ado about nothing is what Shakespeare called it. Shakespeare really had a way with words. Much ado about nothing. So, here we go. We're on our carpet ride today. We're keeping our hands inside the carpet. We are going to enjoy the ride and we're going to watch Triss go through all of our attempts to be guilty and to, you know, suffer. And to hide our private thoughts, especially from our partner. Oh my gosh, that's a, that's a killer. If any of you ever tried to live in a partnership where you tried to hide your thoughts from the other person. Oh, I talk about a nightmare on Elm Street. That is nightmare on Elm Street right there. That's Freddie Krueger trying to, we don't even need knives and blood. We know it's emotional suffering when you hide, try to hide thoughts from your, your beloved partner. Triss is going to try that too. She's going to try to hide, hide thoughts from, from four, from Tobias. But in the end, none of it works, you know, and we can rejoice with Triss that, that none of it works. And at the end we are willing to forgive. We're willing to, to face, to face anything that we believe about ourselves in order to be free, truly free. So sit back, enjoy the ride today as you see everything I've just spoken about acted out so magnificently in this really amazing healing movie.  The whole time, and that the purpose of mind training is simply to forgive yourself for what you did not do. That is the healing relief. Forgive yourself for what you did not ever.


Hi everybody it's Sam at Mixed Up Crowd, thank you for watching today. So I'm going to be showing you how I store and organize my stamps and dies. This is a highly requested video. I get asked this every single day whether it be in comments via email messages. I always get asked this question.  So the way I store them is how I basically store everything. I'll link that one up here because that's again if you're someone that collects a lot of those A4 ones from the Creative Stamping magazine which I know you do. Some of you may already do it that way but do check that out because it's for me it's a bit more of a compact way to store those because I've got quite a few. So this is how I store everything. So I'm going to talk you through this. I've been using this system now for about two years or so. I did show you everything in my craft room tour video which again is about two years ago. I'll share that up here because you can see it in a bit more detail but I'm just bringing some of the tubs into you know onto my desk here so you can see them. So this is one of my stamps. So I've got five of these tubs. Okay I'll share some pictures at the end and I'll put them on Facebook but I'll share them in the video at the end somewhere. So I've got these ones here. Now I did pick these up in China so a lot of this has come back when I shipped all of my craft stuff. There was a lot but I had these tubs. Now the reason I love these tubs so much is because they are completely square so you can see here they're the same width at the bottom as they are at the top. A lot of things you find in the shops are larger at the top and then they go narrow and they're no good for when we want to fit the you know stamps and dies and stuff. So I will try and find something similar but I'm sure you know you can pick these things up in I would well actually these here I think I picked up in the range. These are slightly different and they've got handles so these were in the UK. The reason I love the ones with the handles I can just literally pull this and just kind of it's this is very heavy. I've only got two of these and these are all my dies so I think some of you think I have a lot more but this is it because when you actually take all the packaging off I know I share a lot of things in my what did I get videos but once you take everything away all you're left with you know is a piece of metal and it's very thin so yeah just two of these for my dies and then a few more of these for my stamps because they are a bit more bulky. Now I have a mix of two pockets so the older pockets I used to use are the ones that I purchased when I was living in China so they are I'll show you this one here. So they are just straight at the top and I purchased these from a shop called Muji which is in the UK as well I think it's worldwide actually it's a Japanese store and they've got a really nice stationary department but it's just flat at the top so there's no kind of finger piece so let me just take out the white there there we go so that's how they are and they've been working brilliantly I still got them now there's nothing wrong with them at all it was what was that hand for me when I was living abroad so they've you know they've done the job and they're still you know you can see they're being used perfectly but since moving back my mum actually got me on to the newer ones and I'll go through all my titles as well all my dividers because like the categories because a few people have asked like how I categorize them so I'll show you the titles that work well for me but the ones then my mum uses and these are stronger are these ones here okay so I'm still sorting a few bits out these are my newest Christmas stamps so I need to I like to put a piece of white paper behind I can just see everything a little bit better so I do put up just a plain piece of copy paper just cut it in half and that will fit into each of these pockets so I will link these pockets below you can buy them in different quantities I always usually go for the 100 it just works out cheap I think it's about 6.99 for 100 and they're from eBay I will see if I can find any equivalents on Amazon as well because they seem to be the two kind of places that most of us will buy these kind of things but for the for the amount you get these are the ones that I've seen to be you know good value for money and I said they're nice and thick and they have the finger piece here so it is easy to pull out you know if you've got something taller like the bigger plastic stamps or the actual magnetic sheets so that's how I do that I've still got a label bits and pieces as well and I will show you my labeler in a moment so if I just bring this up to the side this is just one of them so here I've got fashion I've got new home I've got animals I've got cartoons and then I've got Christmas so Christmas is quite big I want to sort it out a bit because there's a few in there that I don't really go for anymore so I will donate those and yeah these are just ones that have kind of evolved as I get more bits and pieces so the fashion is quite a new one and that's kind of come from me getting those lovely let me show you the stamps that I got from craft stash which was the fashionista which was a big A4 one and I cut that down and re kind of stuck them so it's double-sided you know it's all about handbags and perfume and stuff like that so I thought okay that's that's very you know fashion-oriented and then I had with that I've got this one here which was free from one of the card making magazines and it's the girls and you change all the clothing so I thought okay they sit well together and I've got this one here which is very old this is a CD's hats off to you and it's got hat boxes so yeah things kind of evolve as I get more and more stamps I've got a hunky dory one there which I need to label which was the shop till you drop okay so I will show you the other tubs in a moment and then new home again that's kind of newish because I've received the Daisy Mae lovely houses I've got the welcome cottage I've got some big stamps of houses I've got that one there for the lover stamps which is the you know decorating your new home so that's where I go with that and then animals it's obviously self-explanatory anything with animals in mainly dogs and cats and then cartoons are like the critters so I guess more well it is just cartoon images so I know that's an animal but it's more of a cartoon for me so this makes sense to me obviously we've all got our own ways of doing things I need to take some out of this because it is a little bit too kind of wedged and then for example they're like that's the Wallace and Gromit that came free with the magazine that's a cartoon and then I've got spot the dog again that's a cartoon so yeah cartoons and animals this is kind of a fine line but for to me in my head it makes sense for me okay so that's how I stamp them I'm going to give you the measurements and show you the laminator all that stuff I'm going to do in a minute and then this is like I said one of my dye ones and this one here so I've got circle dyes square dyes hoovl dyes rectangle dyes then I go into words numbers border and edge dyes flowers flowers flowers and nature then I've got butterflies and then I've got topper dyes so topper dyes for me are just those big plates so anything that you would die cuts this is the big happy birthday and that would almost be the card done kind of thing so they are yeah exactly that I've got that lovely big one there the x-cut one I haven't used that for a while actually I should bring that one back out but I do have still quite a few to label that was another nice one I've got a clarity heart there x-cut heart so just those big plates really the things that kind of do it for you I mean the heart could go into like valentines maybe but for me when I think of toppers I know that's in there so that's where I kind of go for that um doilys I've got big spellbinders one there so like I said that's one of those I'll show you the other one in a moment so what we're doing first of all because I am in the middle of organizing some more kind of categories so I thought it'd be good to do this video so I'm just going to put this to one side okay so I have brought a new laminator there was nothing wrong with my other laminator but it was a two pin and I'm in the UK and we have a completely different plug socket system and everything and I was just worried that was something that has a lot of heat to it having the different voltage I just wasn't comfortable with so I have invested in another one this was just as inexpensive I paid 23.99 from amazon for this one the royal sovereign it's got really good reviews and it is a really nice machine it's also all digital and you have a bit more control with the thickness of the laminating pouches that you put through it so it's very easy there is a little bit of a sound to it because it has a fan in it to keep everything obviously nice and cool so I'm just going to turn it on okay so you can hear it starting up there now you can change your thickness you just hit that you've got bring up here so let's go back to the beginning so that's hang on so that's cold okay then you've got 75 I find that's the best to have it on this is such a powerful machine for my simple laminating 75 microns is perfect on your laminating pouches it will say what they are I generally buy 150 micron laminating pouches and they're what I'm using today but they work perfectly with the 75 setting okay and then you've got 100 125 150 175 200 and 250 and then it goes back to cold so I'm going to keep it on 75 you can also reverse as well if you want to go back over it and then that's just your power on and off okay so we're going to leave that on when it's ready this will it does a little beep I think and then that stays green then what I've done is I just cut down copy paper to six by 10 and a half that's the size that I like for the the kind of the the tubs that I'm using so if your tub is thicker you might have a seven inch tub then you'd want to have your your width thicker and your pouches might not be if you're not going to go for the same ones I have yours might be smaller therefore you wouldn't need yours to be so tall so you see what I mean here so these are what we're going to make these little dividers and they poke out by about an inch and a half so I can see all of my titles so that's why these are all 10 and a half inches high and six in width so just look at what's going to work best for you know the tubs that you have but this is just you know like I said lots of you have asked you've all got different setups so hopefully you'll pick up something from what I'm doing so I've already done three I need 10 more because I've got a whole new tub of categories now I've got lots of laminating pouches I recently brought these here I got a hundred from amazon so again I will share that link and they're all here and these are 150 micron then with this I got these here I got this one which is 20 pouches of 150 micron and then I also got some others but I think I use them for testing and you also get your cleaning papers you just roll that through with nothing on it it's like a glossy piece of thick card and it will just I guess clean up anything that might be on there so I'm just going to use these ones here now yes there is a waste I cut away this kind of plastic here because obviously I can't go I can't get two out of this because this is only eight and a quarter a full width so it's just not it wouldn't benefit me being a divider so I'm just opening up each of my pockets like so and then just grab one of these and pop it in there pop it's more to one side I mean the acetate I say acetate once it's obviously melted it is like an acetate so some of these pieces I will keep with my other acetate and it will be enough for a little window on a card so I will recycle some of this as well so let's pop those to one side so you can see now my light has stayed green and then I will pop the rest of those in there in a moment but now it's pretty quick as well with this one so just pop it in and then that will just do its thing and I'll just load up some more pockets okay so now I've got a nice laminated piece so I'm going to cut around this and then I will be using my labeler to get all those categories done now the one I had before was the bonsai and it is along my amazon storefront and I'd still recommend it there was nothing wrong with that machine like I said the only reason I've changed is because I just felt a bit more safer having the correct watt or wattage in my plug so I'm going to carry on now and get the rest of these laminated and then I'll come back and show you how I do my labelling okay so I've laminated them all and now just cutting them down and all of these pieces here are also great for my pop-up box cuts you know I like to use the acetate on a lot of the pop-up kind of features and because it's a little bit softer it's you know it's going to work great you can always do some nice bows and things like that so that just all goes into my kind of acetate folder that I have and I can reuse most of that again so I'm just trimming it so that it's about an eighth of an inch border okay you get a really good seal and plus it's only copy paper so you um you should get your your join your seal really almost literally on the paper so I think that's everything there okay so now on to labelling so this is my other tub and I've just put pieces a whole scrap paper in to actors dividers for the minute until I got around to doing this so I am going to be doing food and drink because I have I just pull out some of these here so I've got the pizza I've got this one here which is the fast food fun which I did do a video for but I lost all the footage so I will share the card I've got rosy studio ice cream there I've got some wine from a magazine I've got best day cake I have even a little one there which is a trim craft wine which I need to do again labelling on the front I've got Altenew coffee love so yeah I had quite a few then I thought right let's do food and drink so now I've got two here this one's actually my mum's I thought this is battery operated but they both use the same I guess these are what would you call this is a tape cassette this is what's got your your sticker reel on so these will work in both of these machines they're the 12 mil and this one here is my one that I purchased in China from brother so it's all legit there's nothing fake there's nothing dodgy about it but this one does have an adapter so I've just changed my lead so now I've got the the correct watt for this one so I didn't need to replace that it was quite funny though that I had to label my labella so I went on to the brother website and I had to just work out what all my Chinese symbols meant but I do love this I know how to use this even really without seeing that you kind of get used to kind of like a pattern but these are the same ones here the 12 mil you know these ones are white so that is basically a white sticker with black ink this one is black on white you can get yellow red greens you can have white on black so it's the other way around so do look at that because you don't want to order obviously the wrong one but you can see how they look there in the picture as well so it's exactly the same so yeah the brother one is very good that's battery operated there is no mains with that one let me just double check no it's all just batteries and it's very easy just take that out and pop it back in again there's they're not difficult to use to work at all and then to use them there's really clear instructions and brother are really good online anyway so I'm going to stick with my one here okay so I've just turned mine on now when I know I'm going to be typing and printing a lot of labels I would just do it all in kind of one go so I don't have big gaps because there are tricks and other ways around it but the one that I find the easiest is just to continue typing and just leave a space and then cut it if you just do one label at a time you'll get a good inch of wastage either side so yeah it's just a bit easier to do it this way and I think Jennifer McGuire she has a tutorial on the brother labeler so again take it take a look at that because she gives you lots of hints and tips so so I want to do food and drink so I'm just going to type food and I do the symbol for and actually so I'm not really going to be teaching this because I've got the Chinese ones there's no point okay just find the and sign it's right at the end there we go so food and drink okay then you could do print which will then and then it will come up saying are you sure and then you do print again and it will come out but like I said there will be an inch either side so I'm just going to carry on now and do a space and go into my next one so my next one is going to be what have I got here travel I think it was yeah travel because I've got stamps of stamps so like on an envelope I've got places like Big Ben and the Empire State Building and things like that so I thought if I do that under travel got suitcases those kind of things so just travel okay and then space again and then I've got another one here which is um yeah see I've got a lot of c-themed stamps because usually I would just before I had them kind of mixed in with I think it was scenes I had but now I thought actually I've got that many that they can afford to have their own little category so I'm just going to have under the sea or do I want to see and I'm going to do under the sea um under the now it will only allow you to have so much because it will only print off so much in one go but it's got here 204 millimeters I'm not sure how long it is but it will tell you so don't worry it's okay and then space what other one I've got here oh children should I have children or kids now I'm going to children children and that I cover everything okay space and then oh I've got like a planning so yeah I'm just going to put planning because I've got like the days of the month and like lines and boxes and things like that so just check us about that right okay space and then the other one here is oh yeah I've got whimsical because I've got things like princesses unicorns I've got fairies I mean I've got the beautiful babushkas which is for the lover stamps but I'm going to put that under whimsical because I probably wouldn't find it otherwise and I've got garden as well so let's do whimsical whimsical I've done that right yep and then okay space what did I say the last one was oh yeah garden which is a mix it's kind of got a little bit of food in it it's got the vegetable patch one that I had but it's also got that lovely garden one from the magazine that I recently had and I've got the stamps from the secret garden so and there's a few others to go in there as well so whimsical and then garden so I keep them very short just to the point I don't you know I don't need to have loads of it because I'd go into more detail on the stamps themselves so okay so now I'm going to print that's basically now just saying to me are you sure I'm going to print again and now it will come out the back here so you see there at the start there's that kind of like an inch that's just wasted whereas now now you can make them smaller but I don't just go straight into it so I know I could probably save even more but this is just the way that I do it but now what I'm going to do is just cut them between the words so that's everything there so then you just push that and it cuts off and this is so handy this I use this in the kitchen I labeled like my cereal things because I had them in plastic tubs you know spices and things like that so yeah don't just think that they're just for the craft room because you can use them all over the house so now I'm just going to but see what I mean so I have if I hadn't if I'd done each one separate I'd have that inch and inch here either side of garden so it would end up being like this long and you just have so much wastage whereas least if you do it this way you've you've managed to still print all them off and just lose those two pieces but I'm sure there probably is even a way to not have that but like I said I'm fine with it so now I'm just going to cut these down so I've got garden okay so they're all done so now on the backs of them you basically just fold it in half and the sticker comes up on one side so you just peel the sticker off like this and then just peel it off the other side so if you want to stick you know the top down first and then the rest you can but I just take it all off because it's only a little bit that I'm sticking down now the good thing is is that these are you can keep forever and these peel off quite easily they will stay on but you can peel them off nice and easily now you can make these with pattern paper if you wanted to and I used to have them like that which you would see in my craft room tour but the reason I've changed it is because I found it to be a little bit too busy so as lovely as it looks quite pretty I was just I don't know I just found it easier to have them just plain so that's just my choice but you know by all means you do this how you want this is just the way that I'm doing it and then just stick it to the top left and that's it so now I can pop in food and drinks right at the back so that's going to go in there I'll take that out so that's from my scrap drawer and what was the very back one there I forgot to oh weddings ah missed that one so I have to do wedding in a minute so then I've got travel so I'm just going to stick all these on here and replace those pieces of cardstock that I had okay so now I'll just pop on its side you can see everything there so they stick out just enough for me to be able to quickly go and then I can look into it further so there I then got creative stamping the enchantment collection April 2017 so I will then you know do the same labeling but just do it on each of my stamps in more detail so I mean you don't have to do that the reason I mainly do it is because I'm sharing tutorials with you guys and when you ask where things are from especially if they're a little bit older you can still find a lot of things whether it be on ebay or someone else is selling it so for me if I have everything listed it just makes it easy but you can also just keep the you know the the actual part of the packaging in the piece as well but I will take those probably out so but I put white paper in everything so there's a few that I need to and I've done pretty much all of my like my dividers I now need to just sort out some of the stamps themselves so there's a lot of my creative stamping ones there and in here like when I have little stamps things like this so these are all those tiny ones that you get from Dovecraft so I get a piece of acetate A4 acetate cut it in half so I then have you know a A5 piece and then I just stick them because they come on their acetate piece with the picture and I just stick them on there so that you can see all the separate pieces and then just pop them all together so they are mixed and that's why I've just got their mixed Dovecraft stamps so I might have a miscellaneous section which I can obviously go to because that for me would go under hobbies because I do have one for hobbies so I think as it grows a bit more and maybe I get some more smaller ones that I've got hobbies then that can be added to it and so on so that's just kind of how I've done it for me it's worked the best way I mean years ago I used to have them in folders and they just would always the plastic would end up ripping I used to have them in little what do you call them the zip kind of things but I would forget about them I need to be able to see everything so for me this is just to the right hand side I'll share a picture of how I have them and it is literally I can just you know kind of twist my chair and I can just flick through and it just for me visually to be able to have them like this is the best way I know I see lots of people have them on magnetic great big walls they have a wall full of magnetic sheets that's another good way because you can see it but I like to know like what the collection is from and if I just sometimes I see that and for me I think I would panic that I would get things mixed up and I don't know things would just yeah just get a bit of lost for me so this this works well so that's I need to sort out the front let me just show you so this is another one here so this is sentiments which is huge so I have a lot of sentiment stamps so this one is near the front because this is the one that I kind of go to the most because I pretty much have a sentiment on everything that I make then behind that I have alphabet and numbers and then I've got love but what I would do is move these around because love will sit perfectly with wedding so well I will have those closer together um and things like the garden what else have I got here no like have a look there are going to be more so that's those ones let me grab the other one so then there's this one here so here I have spring and Easter I've got patterns and backgrounds this one is oh I forgot that one oh look I've got this is baby see because I had children I said that would cover also I forgot that one so what I might do is well I have one I'll keep the children and keep the baby one I guess so I look at that and then here's another big one which is flowers in nature so this is all of these here so yeah and also if something comes with a dye what I find is I keep the dye with my stamps in with all of my stamps so for example here I have the daisy may peony bloom and that comes with a dye now the reason I keep the dyes with the stamps is because if that dye was separate with my dyes I wouldn't use that without the stamp the stamp is the first thing you're going to use and then the dye so it's best to keep the dyes with the stamps with all your other stamps I personally feel I think for me it definitely seems right and I use them because I think if I didn't have if I went to get the stamp first I know I know my collection so I know that this has a dye with it anyway but you may well forget and you end up fussy cutting it or something and then later on think oh my gosh I had the dye for that and I totally forgot so I keep them together on the back so that's that one and I've got I've got quite a few like that actually so I'm going to pull out some more like I said I am still sorting this and then I am slowly going to start having some of my brands together so for example here there's some of the stamping up but I've got a lot of woodware and I would rather I think have them all together because sometimes they work well together as well so that's another thing that you can do you might just have a lot of maybe like lawn form for example and like yeah lawn form and my favorite things they're quite similar in their kind of stamping they do a lot of the critters lots of animals and creatures and things like that but it might be nice to have lawn form together and then categorize that down to you know if they're travel related or if there's food and drinking them and under the sea and that kind of thing so there are lots of ways but for me this is the one that works the best I've got another one as well but I can't fit it that was the one I showed you with the fashion new homes it's four that I've got sorry not five and then two of the dye ones so we move on to the dyes now and I'll show you how I do that and the magnetic sheets that I use okay so here are all my dyes so I talked you through the categories for that one but on this one here I've got birthday dyes animals whimsical dyes shapes buildings and objects so when I've got shapes that's like because here I've got my squares ovals rectangles and circles they're my the most common but the shaped ones are things like a triangle hexagon just more obscure cloud shape just things like that that's yeah I don't really go to as much so that's why I've got them like that then I've got buildings and objects so in that one I have because I've got obviously objects but it's kind of a little bit travel as well I guess but yeah so I've got these ones here and then I've got these buildings so they're Fest addition I also need to remember to put the amount so six means how many there are so when I go to put them away because I always forget that I don't do it on the stance but I did do it on my dyes and I've kind of forgotten a few um and then that one there's like a hot air balloon so it's like in the sky I think I need to sort that one out a little bit more but anyway I know what I mean you get used to what you kind of do and you so now I've got bunting I've got children and babies so need to see that I now is that's what I should have done for my stamps is children and babies I've got romantic love dyes frames and tags got loads of frames and tags and I've also got inside here some old stamping up ones as well and then I've got under the sea because I've got a few there and then I've got Christmas I have got a lot more Christmas ones to go in here I haven't that's what I'm in the middle of doing is sorting out all of those new because I've been receiving a lot of product lately and I haven't got around to filing it away yet so that's what I need to do then at the front here I have my magnetic sheets now I was annoyed because the ones that I always order are the it's either 0.5 mil again I'll share the links so don't worry it's 0.5 mil thick was it 0.5 yeah not quite 5 mil it is right and um I was ordering from the same company but the ones they sent me look they're just they're so flimsy they're just no good whereas the ones that I use are here and this is in the proper little sleeve that I use now so this is if I bring this one out just fits in this one actually but that's the one with the little piece there and this is just so much thicker it doesn't flop about or anything like if I had these on this one they would start to I mean this this magnetic sheet doesn't you know it just it's it's the one you want basically trying to describe a magnetic sheet so um yeah they sent me these and I stuck and I thought when I got them I thought they don't feel right and I thought oh no me I've ordered the wrong ones clicked the wrong drop down or something and I checked and I thought no I definitely have so I contacted them they said they're going to send me them again so what I do is these all come as an A4 sheet like so and I just cut it in half on my trimmer so I have the two sizes which fit perfectly in my pockets so yeah I mean these can still be used I won't not use them they'd be good for just like plates I'll probably swap them for some of my like topper dies they work okay on these so yeah so it's just exactly the same way that I do my stamp organization is just you add the magnetic sheet you know this isn't going to work for everybody we've all got different ways of doing things we've all got different space you know some people have heaps and heaps of space I've I'm okay I've got a you know a shelf dedicated for this but I still got to keep it contained and you know I can't keep adding no more tubs I'm pretty much there in terms of my tubs so I'll just kind of look back through things that I don't really use so much and then I can kind of you know donate those and I want to keep it within these kind of ones really so I will share all the links below I'll share the links for the labular machine the laminator machine you know the pouches that I've purchased the laminating sheets everything everything you see today I will link below because that's what you've all been asking but I hope you can take something from this you know whether it be just the categories that I use you know that might be something that you might use in the folders that you've got or something so yeah hopefully it will help some of you let me know what you think let me know if you've got any suggestions as well and ways that you do things link them not link them sorry comment below and I will you know be sure to check those out so thank you for watching please give this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel so you get to see more and I'll be back tomorrow with another tutorial thanks for watching bye


My name is Lisa Bosman and I'm working on my PhD in industrial engineering. Industrial engineering is a great discipline of engineering because it allows a lot of flexibility. So where engineers make things, industrial engineers make things better. Or at least we like to think so. A lot of research that's been done with solar energy is typically located in Florida or the Southwest. Makes sense because they have a lot of sunshine there. So where this research is really important is in the Midwest where we have different climatic factors, different temperature, different solar radiation, snow, which does have influence on the solar panel. We are creating more or less a solar energy blue book that would estimate the price of solar panels.  For the United States we have the Department of Energy, they've initiated the SunShot initiative which is aiming to lower energy, the cost of solar energy about 75% from 2010 to 2020. Where we started off at about 21 cents per kilowatt hour in 2010 and we're currently down to about 11 cents. We have a ways to go to 6 cents to get to the final goal but we're making headway. Going to school at UWM prepared me for my teaching experience. First of all I was able to work as a teaching assistant and so with that I got the experience in the classroom, both lab and a regular classroom, to work with students from different backgrounds, multiple engineering backgrounds. Students really should focus on the STEM majors, you know science, technology, engineering, math, anything they can do around that is going to just increase their experience and exposure to the engineering discipline. I'm Lisa Bosman and I'm a Milwaukee engineer.


Cool. All right. So welcome to 2021 and let's kick off this new year with an even better first meeting. The agenda is quite light here, but yeah, let's skip that button. Thanks a lot for subscribing, Bridget. And I see your first item is actually yours. So maybe someone else wants to support you subscribing while you walk us through the release. You know, I'm not sure if we're going to have a lot to note here in this particular case. I wanted to make sure we talked about and then we'll probably continue to talk about until we get there. Next is my release. And I have a few links in here a few notes. We did it for a quest some time ago and got him to add more detail. This is one of my colleagues and one of Phil's colleagues who was looking to use that V1 alpha four version of traffic specs API. So that kind of led to the discussion of, hey, should we be cutting a release? It's been a while. And then I know Stefan had written a gist about documenting the release process. And yeah, I just kind of wanted to open the floor to, does anyone have any actions they want to take or items they want to add or, you know, feedback for Stefan's gist. Yeah. Before we get to that, I just realized I totally forget to ask if we have any new members anyone who has joined us the first time today. Yes, I was thinking. Yeah, please introduce yourself. Quick, quick introduction. I'm Michael and Bridget. So my name is Amin. I recently joined AWS as an SD. I work on the Kubernetes and serverless area. From time to time I work with the amazing Michael on the AWS controllers for Kubernetes. And yeah, this is my first meeting about with the SMI. I hope to learn with you guys and do amazing things this year. Thanks a lot. Welcome. Anyone else. Welcome. Hi folks, my name is Sungru. I work for Intel as one of the tech lead, and that's my first meeting today. So recently got started on looking into service mesh and so just learning the whole concept and figuring out how service mesh would work. Our primary focus is tuning service mesh towards the telco application models. And that's what you're looking into. So I'm just getting started into whole SMI and what service mesh is. So looking forward to learning more. Awesome. Welcome. Can you let us know where you're based out of time time zone wise just to get a bit of an idea. Yeah, I'm based in Portland, Oregon. So basically Pacific time. Okay. I'm based in Luxembourg. So an hour more than Michael. Thanks a lot. I think that's it now right I forgot anyone else. Okay. Cool. Sorry for the interruption. Oh, no, it was good. Glad that we did that. So anyway, I'm not assuming that we're going to decide anything on the call rate this moment, especially because Stefan wasn't able to join us today apparently, but I wanted to make sure we started thinking about what is our next release look like. Michael, I know that you had some input into that in the past. What are your thoughts? I keep muting myself. Yeah, I think that we should, you know, really come up with a little bit more of a structure and the cadence.  You know, smaller batches and release more often, especially if we're not doing breaking stuff right if we if we get something done and there is no good reason why not to cut a new version and I think, and maybe that's a separate topic that we decide I mean given this two weeks that you know, maybe once a month or once every two months we have fixed releases right and even if it's just one new tiny thing we get out okay that's that's fine. But I at least that was my perception from from last year a little bit that you know, it's kind of like took quite some time it's not a criticism it's just like an observation that I'm sure it's probably easier to do smaller, more often than you know these big bang once a year releases. I don't know if this that's mine.  We don't want everyone who's trying to implement it to feel like it's a moving target that they have to reimplement every two weeks I mean we don't want to strike that kind of fear in everyone's hearts. But at the same time if people have been waiting since October for something to be in the spec like we we don't want to put that waiting you know what I'm saying we don't want to. We don't want the spec to stand in the way of the implementers moving forward either. So, I guess I'm asking the community I'm interested in what everyone thinks is like what is the right balance there. I guess that my emphasis on non breaking like if something is like okay here we need to clarify this bit or you know, there are some some contradict whatever it is that that essentially helps people to implement it better faster or whatever. That's the push, not necessarily saying like okay. Yeah, why should someone wait for for half a year I get to the okay moving target thing or idea that's that's definitely not a good thing but yeah on the other hand having having too much. I'm good by between two releases might might not be a good thing either. So, I mean, are we talking about the difference between like clarifications and bug fixes. I think those should be going out all the time, since we're talking about documentation, you can always just be refining the things that we've already talked about. I can see new features, I can see new features being scary but you know we're also sitting at alpha, you know, I mean, like this new spec is going to come out and like from engine x perspective we're not going to immediately just uplift all the code, right to support it like we're going to take our time to to consume it. If other releases come out we can always leapfrog to I'm a little bit more sensitive about beta and then in an actual like production level releases that I am about. Absolutely. So, I kind of lean towards just my opinion, but I kind of lean towards quicker cadences on on alpha because I'm not that scared and I expect things are going to break at some point. Right. And I guess my main argument for a set release cadence, at least, you know, I don't know, once a month or whatever is that you know it doesn't mean that with every release it has to be a big thing maybe it is really a tiny thing, but we don't need to have a discussion like when will the next release be it's like clearly this is going to be there, and maybe a certain feature a certain fix makes it into that release or maybe it business to train and goes into the next one that's fine, but you know it's just like it's clear every last Monday or whatever we're doing a release, and that's it right so then then we can still decide like you know is that feature x or whatever ready already for the next cadence or the next next cutting the release or not. That makes sense. I'm Phil, since you represent team that is doing an implementation with OSM do you do you want to address like what you think about Michael's idea of having like fixed dates for spec releases. Yeah, I'm found that. I know we we try to, well, I guess what's the cadence and are we talking monthly, quarterly. I mean that's what that's what we're deciding. You know, that works I mean I guess if there's anything that like this experimental right you can put a feature flag and etc, you know. But yeah, that works me I think that will give the community a cadence of when they can expect things to be available. We're putting that in the change log, etc. So, yeah, I'm on board with that you got my vote. Yeah, I mean I think with that cadence definitely concur with the case with that timeline actually looks like but expected releases. So I agree with Phil and Michael on. And I didn't mean to resolve it today I what I meant is that, you know, we can say okay, this is the proposal this is what you know people who are on that call are fine with. And next time we meet we could put that you know to a vote or whatever thing like okay, can we resolve that and then use that as the first you know, try out with that. All right, that sounds awesome and that is what I wanted to discuss. And thank you so much for putting the time to that. Back to you Michael. Cool. The next thing I see here is the S1 metrics discussion or because the other one also requires Stephens input reliant release process. Yeah, it is the metrics discussion. Yeah, I just threw that in there. Yeah. So, yeah, I want to take the temperature so obviously you guys know you all know that we've been building out OSM. And so we we've kind to we've hit this kind of what do we do with the, the UI of OSM and so I've had some some deep conversations with Michelle and, you know, we feel like, Hey, let's, what if we just make the metrics SMI metrics robust enough like that abstraction layer, because you know everyone likes Cali. And then we said hey what if we can make this abstraction layer so that we can bring Cali into, you know, to look at any service mesh that is utilizing SMI. We're going to have that pluggable experience, you know, because, you know, obviously our, our cloud teams are looking at like, as you monitor those are different sets of APIs, etc. But, you know, we're trying to figure out Hey, what can we do to make this kind of modular for the community, because we know that, you know, even people that are using SEO, they like Cali. There's just a big community feel around the looking field of Cali and I'm not dug that deep. I'm starting to look deep into the metrics API, but you know, just looking through it, it doesn't look too robust at this point, not saying that it can't. But I like to see if that's something that is worth kind of specking out in that type of scenario. So I know I was rambling but hopefully everything I was kind of make sense. So, so I'm trying to understand. Oh, sorry. Yeah, so good. Yeah, go for Matt. Okay. Yeah, from our perspective, we think it's a little bit constrained to. And I've been thinking about, is there ways to extend it to add metrics into it. But then the more I think about that so like, let's say, you know, let's say your data plane provides this metric. That's not necessarily represented in the latency metrics of us and my metric. You know, how can we make it generic so that I can add this key value pair or engines that go into the metric. And it's all generic and I can fill it out. And then the more I think about that. Are we doing something that we're not really like good at like we're really like I think service mesh is really good at networking and security. Good at providing observability but should we be worried about the transport of observability and then I start thinking about open telemetry so I keep walking. Yep. Yeah, that's that's where I'm at. I haven't really concluded anything yet, but I think there's room for extensibility. Yeah, you know, Yeah, go for Michael. No, no, sorry. No, no, I was saying, yeah, no, so yeah, we talked about open telemetry and I think it's the same use case right it's like open telemetry is can still talk to the SMI metrics right to pull stuff. Is that kind of how you would think about it, Matthew or Yeah, I mean I haven't thought that deeply on it like I like I'm saying I keep going around in circles but you can. Now I'll tell you that people that are using, you know, internally to F5 that are trying to do metrics see invisibility type stuff, keep bypassing SMI metrics and going straight to Prometheus and then they're going to have to do metrics borders, because one reason is because they understand the metrics that the data playing natively supports and so they're just side stepping. Now customers not necessarily going to have that level of knowledge, but I think they eventually will. And so we're, we're really struggling, we're really struggling with saying use SMI metrics and then being told, well you're just not telling us the data we really care about. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't thinking that it would be very confined right like if we look at like Google's SRE doc like like golden metrics right it's not to be extensible, but enough that hey, I got enough data to figure out what's going on in my mesh. I don't ever think we'll have parity with, you know, all the native stuff out there. And I don't think that that will be the job of SMI metrics right I think it has the golden metrics like the 8020 rule type of stuff. Then that helps us be able to not worry so much about building specific UIs to kind of surface this stuff up we can just hit these API's and draw it up. So that makes me start thinking that we don't really need extensibility, but we do need more metrics so if we just did exactly. More error rates and, you know, I don't know all the top of my head but yeah I know. And at this point, at this point we should look at that link that Michael dropped in. Yeah, I was, I was trying to reconcile that in my in my head it's like the open telemetry project is open and you know supportive if we tell them you know XY said to include that. And metrics in contrast to traces are not yet GA they are still in flux. There is a good threads and that's part of sick of stability, making sure that metrics and and the default civilization format of telemetry are harmonized. So, to me the question is like yelling is a piece of software right like I, I, I'm not into getting it what what beyond what what is offered in 199. What would be part of your proposal or your, your, your desire here. Yeah, looking at this I mean, if, if open telemetry is the endpoint then I'm fine I guess I'm just trying to figure out hey, what's the layer that we can just grab the data from, you know, where it's a complete set of Are you talking about the semantics or are you talking about formats. The semantics at this point again like we're just trying to solve. I guess, if I could just go back like we're trying to solve not having to build a UI to to go after these apis ourselves to surface those metrics. Yeah, so then I would definitely encourage you to go to that 199 comment what you would like there and I'm more than happy to take an action item to work with Justin to implement or to introduce the desired semantics in open telemetry. And again, this discussion is super early, we just started having it but I wanted to kind of just throw it out there to see what the community was thinking about. Like, you know, this is like a pluggable abstraction layer to surface metrics into any system. Right. And that's that's where there's this big fundamental difference between premises exposition forward and do not have prescriptive semantics right there is no way you know, define what a certain metrics, there are conventions how to name metrics but there is no where open telemetry has a very opinionated way to go about that right and and I think we should if we if we want that leverage what what especially given that open telemetry is very open and supportive there. If we say, this is what we need that we just use this to miss you to see like here's our wish list. There's no guarantee that you know everything that we say there will be implemented one to one and maybe someone will say, Well, you know, this specific metric is already covered with, you know, whatever is currently four or five categories that are already existing. But at least this is something that is, you know, we wouldn't be making up a new standard but we would be building on extending an existing one. Exactly. Yep. If that is, I'm still not sure because I know Kiali I used to work at Reddit I know where it comes from and what what it does, but that is where I the disconnects between what you know the. Yeah, maybe I don't. Well, I'm assuming I'm making some assumptions I'm assuming that.  Is that true statement. And if we don't know we don't know but that's that's the assumption that I'm under. It is definitely relatively at the current point in time but it currently does not that familiar with with how you know, close to the tightly coupled it is with Istio but I believe it is pretty well. Yeah, I'm assuming that's the case and then. So we, you know, we were approaching this is okay. People like Kali that whole experience, how can we just plug and play with Kali on top of SMI or any any service mesh that is adhering to the SMI specs right so if we can surface, whether that's link or D. You know, Matthew what you're doing with index, etc. Like if you're surfing those metrics with. And again, I was thinking SMI metrics then we can build that layer then you'll be able to draw that up with whatever you know service measures under beneath that abstraction layer. And that to me sounds like, you know, like standardizing on a format, which gets back to I think what Michael was saying is, we can be working with open telemetry then. Right. Okay. To define that and, you know, I mean from my perspective. I mean, I kind of prefer that, you know, they're really taking the lead on on, you know, telemetry, you know, format the packets, the data grams of what that telemetry is, and then it allows us to then just feed into that project but then focus on, you know, I mean, we have seven networking security, and then we don't care what those we don't care about the format will just use the format that people tell us is good for them. You know, which would be open to us. You know, I guess we have some opinion. Maybe if I may comment coming in from a newcomer's perspective. So a lot of I used to work on some of the collect telemetry agents collect the telegraph. So some of the most of our customers, if I see today, they're comfortable in leveraging from ETS, and they already are looking to deploy something like from ETS Grafana in within their environments. So, one of the questions would be, hey, why do I need one more agent like one more software stack at a Kali, for example, if I have Prometheus, can I have a way to integrate the mesh metrics into Prometheus. All right, so I guess it's a, it's another, another entity that they have to look into configuring installing and managing. So instead of, I mean, if you have something like Prometheus good well integrated. For example, open telemetry format. That's where most of the folks are shifting to. It becomes easy to kind of leverage along with the rest of the stack that they have the rest of the Kubernetes applications that they have something like Prometheus and open telemetry. No, look, I totally agree with that. I think, you know, again, the level of environment you go into, right? So hey, you go into environment and their Prometheus 400 level guys, people like that works for them. But, you know, if we go to kind of like the core of what SMI is about, it's kind of like simplify the experience, right? Like, you know, Prometheus is going to give you 1000 knobs and 1000 buttons. You just go to town. But for someone who's just like, just entering into this space and they just want pretty UI, you know, simple experience, not so worried about all the other bells and whistles. Even something like Prometheus could be pretty intimidating, you know, to kind of, you know, create all those queries, etc. Exactly. I mean, I'm yet to explore how the functionality is of Kiari, but just a perspective of what's being used open telemetry and Prometheus are the common ones that everybody's moving towards. And just to clarify, the offer or the idea here with open telemetry is essentially, when we say semantics, it's essentially this kind of, you know, giving a name and defining exactly what its meaning is, right? So this metrics here, hdb.server.duration, that's exactly, you know, measures the duration of the in-part hdb request. That's it, right? So that when you see that, right, there is no doubt what it is, right? People don't have to come up with it, where Prometheus is, you know, an exposition forward around that is kind of like descriptive, it says, okay, this is the way how things should be named. Open telemetry in that sense is really prescriptive, it says, you know, this is the way how the metrics looks like. And our task here would really be, on the one hand, and Phil, if you want to take lead on that, I'm happy to support you there to review the existing open telemetry semantics that are already there that we can leverage. So here, this is already covered, and here is a set that we, you know, that are not yet there, that would be new. And then the way how they wanted, if they expand a new category or wherever they put it, that's something else, that's implementation detail that open telemetry folks need to sort out. But I'm also active in that community, I can definitely, as I said, support the process from the other side as well. I think that's in the sense of having something that is, you know, interoperable and, you know, leverages existing other CNCF projects, probably most sense in this context. Yep. Okay, cool. All right, we have a few minutes left, so I will open up the floor to any, any other business, is there anything that you would like to see is there anything that you would want, like, for example, upcoming cube con CNCF con Europe. So to bring that up, I have, I have 30 some tabs open of service mesh talks I am reviewing for that. And it looks like a lot of stuff. I'm almost, I'm almost done with my observability done. So yeah, I know that review that is coming up soon. So, yep, I've been lazy over over the last two weeks. So, holiday. It's me now. Yeah, having we all. Very exciting. All right, and if there is anything, especially looking at people who recently joined us so soon cool and I mean, you know, it's it's kind of like help help yourself right so you don't need to wait until someone asks. If you have issues there you can start reviewing you can work on whatever you like. Usually during the week we are during the two weeks where we meet usually on on slack so it's not super high verbose and busy so you know if you want to time in there and ask something or suggest something like this is definitely the way to be not going to be overwhelmed Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, try starting started reading and I'm lost in the bunch of information out there. No for sure so my interest to start off with looking into KPIs for East West traffic not so traffic and I saw some of the discussion in earlier notes. So you're trying to understand more to figure out how best to establish that from a telco perspective.  Absolutely. Thank you. Cool. Thanks a lot and see you in two weeks time again. Bye bye.