My name is Suchi Gurgh. I am the technical team lead in Aakoya. To give some background about me, educationally I am an MBA in finance and marketing, but then I came into IT, I started doing development, PHP development, and I have been doing PHP for the past 13-14 years now. I have never bought a book in PHP, never learned PHP from any training institute, but I have been in the Drupal space since Drupal 4.6 and again, never brought a book, pushed into it. At this moment, if I look at Aakoya certifications, for example, I am a grandmaster and currently I am leading a team, I am in managing projects, I am a technical architect, so these are the roles that I have been playing. One of the roles while doing all this is because Aakoya is a US-based company and it started ten years back, but we started in India about three years back and we have been growing like crazy. I joined Aakoya about one and a half years back and there were just six people in the company at that time. At this moment, we are 25 plus and the plan is to increase this two-fold within this year. So as you can imagine, hiring has been our number one priority and while we are trying to hire, we have been facing a lot of challenges and this is one of the sums of what I have experienced in the past one and a half year. Just to get an understanding of my audience, can you just tell me a bit about yourselves? I am the COO of a Drupal development company. And how big are your 25 people? So somewhere around what Aakoya, India is essentially the size. Others who are owning a company who are involved in talent hiring who all here are involved in hiring. I think that's why you are here. As we just said, what are we discussing? My slides don't have anything, so I don't think you'll be able to write. Before I start with the challenges we are facing, let me tell you a bit about my experience. As I told you, I am an MBA in finance and marketing and I got a placement job, placement as in they came to the campus and they hired me and I was an executive assistant in a management services, in a cement management services company which is like nowhere near IT, nowhere near IT. I was an executive assistant, I was supposed to be doing business management kind of stuff, etc. But within one year, one and a half year of joining, I was sort of pushed into IT. My boss, he was the executive director of the company at that time, he was the one who, it just happened that our IT managers, there were two managers, they just quit and it's a 350 strong company. Those two people just quit, we had our internal servers and there was nobody to take care of them. The person, my boss who was handling all this, he was in the US. And I'm talking about 2000 or 1999 maybe. And he just pinged me on Yahoo I am because that's what was prevalent at that time. And he just pinged me, alright, you need to reboot the server. And I'm like, I don't know, what needs to be done? I don't know how to do it. And he was like, okay, I'll be sending you commands, you just copy paste, copy paste. And that's how I got into servers. Then he and me, both of us, single-handedly decided, alright, let's make an internet for the company. That's when I got into PHP. I started PHP and PHP 3, where extension used to be dot PHP 3. And OOPS was just OOPS. OOPS, I dropped this. And not object-oriented programming thing. So that's where I started. I still remember once, he was in the company, he was around. But I just removed, I just deleted the content of one whole department on the server. And the department was finance and accounting. So you just imagine the... And I'm always an early riser, I reached office early, he used to come a bit late. And I went, sorry, I just did this. Alright, what did you do? So he sat me down, because I was like all hyper, I don't know what to do. So he said, okay, what did you do? I did just this. Very cool, Lee Kamdi. Let's do a backup restore. And that's how I learned. That's how I learned. Even though I was not an intern, and what we are talking about here is an internship program essentially. But what I'm trying to say here is that if you have a mentor who invests his time in you, that is when your association with that organization, with that mentor, with that boss actually grows really badly. So we just talked about so many people here who are into... Hi, who are into Drupal Hain, the new people who have come in. Can I just have some idea of what roles you are in? I have a program manager, which we are having today. Alright, and you are involved with Hain, I'm sure. I am also working as a project manager for the new digital and basically setting up a new Google practice. So let's switch a bit to the Indian scenario. But I am sure you guys also face the same challenges. All of you are involved in hiring and you have been trying to hire for the past, let's say, one year or something. What are the biggest challenges that you see in the community today? Anything? Communication skills, yes. But I think the biggest concern is the technical... The standard that we want for technical expertise is not there. I know this, I'll do this. I'll not do anything else. They would like to be just on a focus area, they don't know what to say. The narrow focus rather than getting a broader focus? Yeah. A rock star developer. Okay, but when the time goes on, the pressure builds on you. I'm sorry, I didn't get it. Initially we looked for a rock star developer, a Drupal developer. A rock star developer, alright. You really find them. Okay. When the time goes on, the pressure builds on you. You have to hire... Many others. There are only few rock stars in the community. That is the problem. And they won't join you. If you're a Drupal... It is, everybody has their own concerns. People don't join Aquia as well, even though in the Drupal community, I would consider Aquia to be at a higher preference level than others. But people have their own reasons why they don't want to join. For example, for us, one of the reasons... We have lost a lot of people because we are located in Delhi and we are not very open to a remote culture. And so people don't want to relocate. They cannot relocate. They have their... And that's perfectly okay. So the biggest issue, as we said, is technical talent and then the aptitude stuff, etc. Attitude is something that, yes, you can try to... Technical talent is also something you can train them, but then you have to train them. And I think one of the biggest reasons behind all that is... If I look at the educational institutes today, do you know of any educational institute, any college, which has Drupal as its curriculum? I know one. And that too, because the teacher there, the professor who's owning that particular IT thing, he is a very pro Drupal person. So he has one semester, one thing, which is a Drupal course. Just a small course, but at least he's giving their students a push towards Drupal. But other than that, forget about Drupal. We don't have PHP in the curriculum. So people do have that... All right, I've learned .NET, I've learned VB. I'll go there because I've learned C++. I'll go there. They don't have that kind of inclination to go towards an open source thing. And I mean, if I look at some of the... If I don't include people who are passionate in trying to do something new, if they are not, they will just teach... They'll just learn what is being taught in the class and that's it. They're done. I have some examples sitting right here who in the college, in the school, decided to just open the computer apart and do what not with it. But there are others who don't even care. They just want to pass the exams and that's it. And when you have such a mentality, getting Drupal talent out of the education and just out of the box is just not possible. I think that is one of the biggest problems that we have. Also, if I look at the big training institutes that are available, the biggest training institute that comes to my mind in terms of Indian context again is an IIT. They don't have a Drupal curriculum. They don't know about Drupal. They have a PHP curriculum, but that is offered in just some centers. Just some centers. But if you go for dot IDS, I've got this many curriculums, this many courses. If you have VB+, VB and whatnot, you have loads of curriculums available. But when it comes to open source things like PHP and Drupal, no, there's nothing. And that in some ways does... Again, because we have issues like this, the problem that we guys face as people who try to hire is a typical chicken and eggs thing. We need experienced people. But where do experienced people come from? We don't have experienced people. So, I mean, as I said, we don't need freshers, but freshers, how do they gain experience unless and until we teach them or somebody teaches them. That is the problem. The solution, I would not say it's a one-stop solution, but one of the possible solutions is probably internship and that is what we are here to talk about. The possible solution is internship that we hire people who have some spark and we try to train them in Drupal and then try to see whether they suit our needs and they also see whether this company, SUSA needs and try to merge them. But when we talk of internships, what makes an internship useful? What makes an internship powerful? Before I go into that, just a question in your career, another career, has there been one person who has been instrumental in your growth in guiding you? I'm sure each and every one of you has that one person who guided you into the right spot, into the right direction. Once you have that kind of a person, you try to stick to that person, to the organization that person belongs. So, having one person who is guiding you, not only technically, technical guidance is important, yes, but overall mentoring is really, really important. That's what makes an internship bang on. That's what makes an internship useful enough without that kind of investment, without that kind of a thing. Internships don't really matter. But what exactly, I mean, the question is if I look at from the intern's point of view, we have one ex intern here sitting, we have one current intern sitting here. I'm sure you are also sitting here from the student's perspective and not the hiring perspective. These are the, what does internship have in for you? So, career exploration, so that you don't have to go into that field, but at least you are able to get into the field, experience it firsthand, and then you figure out and then you decide whether this is right for me or not. Because at times, from the outside, some field looks very challenging, very interesting, but once you are into it, then you realize, okay, this is not for me. It doesn't excite me. That is the biggest thing an internship can offer you. Gain industry knowledge, accumulate evidence of your abilities, critical professional contacts, that's really, really important. Confidence boost, possibly land a full-time job. If the company, if the organization likes you as an intern, yes, they would want to give you a job, but they might not want to give you a job as well. It depends entirely on you. And of course, resume enhancements. So, in your resume, if you're like, yes, I've done internship with ABC. It has a weightage, right? But if we talk loosely, a lot of things are called internship. If I ask any of you, what do you mean by internship? Can anyone answer? What is internship? You're trying to look for an internship program. What do you feel is internship? The team is already working on it. It gives us an insight of how the corporate world is actually working, the dynamics of the world at hand. Okay. Anybody else? Yeah? Get real-time hands-on projects. Get real-time hands-on projects? Yes, or maybe no. Because as a project manager, I would not probably not put an intern on a full-time project. Just like that. But as a shadow, they can... As a shadow, yes. As a shadow. That's important. Get to know the workflow. Exactly. So, you are part of the project, but maybe not really doing, but just overseeing things and seeing how things work. You want to say something? You're just smiling. Internship is a period of pressure where we get an exposure of how the industry works. Where we get an exposure of where we lack. And we also get an opportunity to improve ourselves and get concurrently. Very long answer. Too much in the answer. Typical of... All right. Let me give you the official... One of the official definitions of internship. And of any official or formal program to provide practical experience for beginners in an occupation or profession. I think that pretty much summarizes what internship is. It might not be exactly for all freshers when a person is trying to switch the field of their work. That is also one point where they might want to do internships. I was in IT. I don't want to do IT now. I don't want to do something else. I might want to up. So, it's not only for students, but it is for everybody who's new to the field. That is where an internship is really required. And internship can be paid or unpaid. It can be part-time, full-time. Right? Interns, maybe college or university graduates are the freshers that, as you mentioned, but it can be full-time grown-up adults, postgraduate adults who decide to switch. Then, you know, it's a structured work experience, essentially. And it should... If you're talking about the student, it should enhance the student's field of study. It should enhance his term grade or somehow it should be enhancing his field of study so that he gains something out of the internship. That's the whole point of getting an internship. But I think the biggest, the strongest point when I have to define internship is that it should be an experience where the intern is mentored by a professional. That is the biggest and most important thing. Unless and until there is mentorship by a professional, if we just hire an intern and let him lose as an orphan, it will not help. So, a professional mentorship in an internship program is the most important thing. Whether it's a paid or an unpaid scenario, whether it's a newbie, whether it's a postgraduate adult who has a ten years of experience, it doesn't matter. It has to be a mentored program. Unless and until mentored, it will not have any weightage at all. So, internship, all the definitions, whatever we talked about, all holds true. But the key point is this, active mentorship. Unless and until we have active mentorship, we are not able to do anything. So, one minute. Yeah, sorry. We just talked about how internship is useful for the interns. Now we can talk about how internship is useful for the organization. These are, I mean, how many of you have actually had interns, have had interns in their company? And I'm sure whatever good, whatever result you wanted out of it is listed out here. What was the biggest thing that came to your mind when you were hiring an intern? Um, what's the difference in future employees? Yeah, fine future employees. That's probably the topmost thing. For you as well? Yeah. Others? Yeah, as well as to see the future of the talent. The future of the talent, yes. That's pretty much fine future employees and future talent is pretty much the same. We also like them for the culture. They tend to be young and fun. Yes.  Yeah, if you look at the team, which has, like, all of them are five-year-old developers, the perspective that an intern brings is really unique. Why can't we do this like this and not this? And that's really important. Some people do talk about this as well. Even though I put this here, I'm sure I'm not a supporter of this because they think that, okay, internship is to take advantage of local slavery. So I have an intern go and bring coffee for me. No. I will not do that. They take time, though, and they're being more expensive than it sounds. Yes. But they're, um, practically they're more hardworking because they're more land-based. Yes. For sure. Totally agree. Totally agree. And I think the last point is very relevant as well. We don't really think of the last point, but it's really relevant. So for example, I have an intern who's been working for me for the past three months, six months, whatever, and he's from a great college, which has a great talent, but I've not been able to see the talent. But when he goes back there, you know, he says, okay, this company is really great to work with. This has a really, really great culture, and that is free advertising for you, literally. Word of mouth, where, if you're looking at an advertisement, you will not feel like, okay, I want to buy this product. But the moment somebody says, okay, I've used this, I love it. Yes, you might want to try it out. So this last part is also very, very important. So these are the advantages that almost every one of us can think about. But there are so many intrinsic advantages that are not written here. Again, coming back to my example, I was not an intern, yes, but because of the fact that I was, like, so invested in, so I was given so much of mentorship by somebody, I was an intern in the field of IIT totally, because I was not trained for IIT. So I might be a full-time employee, but as, if I look at it culturally and if I look at it technically, I was actually an intern, because I was being groomed to become an IIT manager or whatever, BHP developer or whatever. I do remember when I said, if you remember, I just said that we decided to build an intranet for the company. Just two people actually built an intranet for the company in less than a month, and that was being run by, and that was being used by 350 people right from the WorldCo. Intranet which did not have any CMS, core PHP, core database calls, et cetera, et cetera, and we built an intranet. Because of the fact that I was so invested, I made sure that I have a commitment, I have to do it. After that, we didn't stop there. Almost single-handedly, I made a project management system for them, and project management system for a cement company that has been in the business since 1967. And again, 350 people. Therein, they have projects, tasks, time slots, time sheet entries, everything.  Core PHP, nothing like that, and it was still running. Post-rescue, I didn't know my school at that time, so he decided, let's do PGS scale. I was like, okay, let's do PGS scale. I have to learn either of them. So I just did that. Even though now if I look back at it, I'm like, what did I write? But the level of commitment that an intern has, because of the fact that that person is so invested in you, that's very high. I worked for that organization for almost eight years, and I would not have left that. I might have been still in that organization, but I had some personal issues. I got really sick. I couldn't travel to the office and et cetera, et cetera. That was the reason I left that. Otherwise I would still have been there, because of the fact that, yes, people had that investment in me.  His growth is from within rather than, you know, and that kind of person will, in all the cases, each and every case, will perform better than a person who is getting a paycheck to get his job done, because that person has that social connect with you. And that is the whole. So organizations have an intern program. Yes, all this is very good, but an internship program almost always, if it is successful, almost always guaranteed committed employees. I have seen a lot of cases where we started with an intern and he or she would be in the organization for a very long time as compared to others, even if the company or the industry is a high transition industry. Do you guys agree with me? I don't know, I don't want this to be a one-way thing. Any comments, any critiques? I started as an intern at my company 16 years ago, so I'm the COO. Awesome. It can work. You can vouch for that, totally. Awesome. How about your financial implications? Suppose you have an internal trade web, and probably your competitor might know some facts about the person, maybe he or she might offer more. Yes. Because nowadays, instead of having an institution, an intern ratification or something, I agree to your thing, but again, it depends on what motivates the person. Again, if I talk about my example, I was in that company for eight years, and within that eight years, I did get a lot of good offers, which were paying much more than what I was being paid. But because I was comfortable in that company, and not only comfortable, I was valued in that company. I did not think of a switch. I mean, there are people who are driven by money, I would not deny that. No, I mean, ten years of that, yes, I agree with that statement, but if you see the generation, they're definitely not in that fashion. Not at all. They want to make sure that... Yes, as I said, there are people who are actually turned on by money, let's say, let's put it this way, but not all. And down the line, people do realize that money is not... I would not stay in a company because it's offering me much more money. I would stay in the company because I like working there or I like the environment there. Those things are much more involved. Maybe that's just me, but I have worked with the current generation as you just put it, the current generation. I am part of the older generation, sadly. But yeah, I have worked with the current generation. We have people here who...  I do understand the point that you're trying to make here, that yes, I train a person. I spend half... I'm just telling you that are you... internally you're also taking a risk where... Yes, yes. That's a risk that is present always.  Happens always. Right? So that's a risk you have to be willing to take. So how do you compare the intensity of what is a fresher recruitment? A fresher recruitment... A fresher recruitment... recruit with a fresher. What do you mean by fresher? I'm right from the college, not a... Then again, even if it's a fresher recruit, you will have to train that person. Right? The internship in some ways is better in that case because you have an obligation with that person for a certain period of time and if that person doesn't suit you and if that person feels that the company doesn't suit me, it's both ways. If they don't suit you, there's no... All right. There's okay, this is the end of... It's the six months internship. This is the end of six months. I don't need to hire you. But if you have hired a recruit, a fresher, you have recruited a fresher. Now you have a lot of other things. You have all the benefits that you have to give him. You have... If you have a notice period kind of a thing, you can't just fire him after six months because then you have to give him the notice period thing as well. So it's... You know, the kind of investment in terms of training is similar in both the cases, but the contractual obligation is lesser in terms of internship because the person who's coming as an intern knows exactly that, okay, I'm an intern for six months. I have to learn in this six months. I have to perform well and only then I will be given a full-time status. Only then I'll be hired. But a fresher or a recruit, he knows, oh yes, I'm hired now. That's what happens in placements. TCS. Maybe Vipro. I don't know. Vipro does like, all right, go to a college, hire 25 people. Yes, let's go. That's what happens. But if we talk about smaller organizations like yours, like ours in India, we cannot do that because we don't have the training, you know, setups. TCS has a training who are full-huge training a center in Mysore in Chennai as well. We don't have that and we can't afford that. I would not say it's a love marriage, it's a courtship period. Marriage comes in later. That okay, this is a courtship period.  I don't want to marry you. Divorce Lena Padika. You'll have to divorce that person now. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Yes, there is, there are those ways. But then in some ways it is very comparable to an internship because again, the person who's joined knows that I am on probation for six months and unless until I perform well, I learn well, I demonstrate my capabilities, I will not be able to do that. So that in some terms is comparable to internship because again, any ways if you're hiring an intern, you have to train them. You have to put in that investment in any case, whether you're hiring as an intern or whether you're hiring as a full term on probation or no probation, etc. So investment is the same. Maybe slightly less or no, but probation, yes, if you have a probationary period, you have that kind of a clear cut end point that yes, this is the point where you have to demonstrate. Maybe it's similar to internship in some ways. I think like there is more pressure to deliver within that system. No. As an intern, one of my interns is sitting right here. Talk to him about pressure. You know pressure, like if I'm hiring a pressure and if there is a probationary period, then they need to deliver. So even an intern who is on, intern again, it's sort of in a probationary period for that intern as well. If he's an intern for six months, he knows what internship gives both the parties is a flexibility. Maybe the intern thinks that yes, this thing is not for me. Then that is the best way to test drive. You know, that yes, this is, maybe this is, if you hire a pressure, the pressure doesn't really know. Let's think, let's talk about the intern, in the Indian scenario. You have been to colleges and you were part of the college once. Placement day, first day, how many people apply? Everybody. Irrespective of what is the company, what is the job description, what is the damn role? I don't care. I'm just applying because I want a job. Am I right? Nobody cares on what the job description is. So as a company, you hired a person on the first day of placement. Do you think that that person has the right fit for you? And whether that person knows that this job is the right fit for me. That is what internship allows you to have. Point of view, I would like to add, as an intern, from a student's point of view, we just go and we like to have fun. We learn. We are happy for knowledge, actually. Honestly speaking, the six months, we have no guarantee, a proper thing that you'll be hired after six months. Those six months, we literally live there and we learn. Try to learn as much as possible. We are literally hungry for knowledge in our six months. Yeah. So it's like a beneficial thing for both. Like the organisers or the company and the students as well. Thank you. It helps to have a different perspective as well. Anything else? Anything else you guys might have? Yeah? Yeah, I could say yeah. What are some of the kind of prerequisites for a I'll be coming to that. We have heard of a success story here. I am a success story of sort of internship. I have a success story sitting right there. This guy was hired and then interned fresh out of the college and now he's into engineering of Aquia and he's a very bright guy. But we do have a horror story as well. Does anybody have a horror story?  Worst possible thing. Fetch my dry clean. Have you seen Devil Veer's Prada? Anybody has seen that movie? Yeah. I was sure that a woman would have seen that. I was sure none of the guys would have seen that. But a girl would have seen that. So that's that's a horror story for sure. So I have seen in terms being told, okay, go and fetch coffee. Go and do photo stats. Photo copies.  We don't have that much laundry fetching in India. But yeah, I've seen that. Before we go to what she was saying, just what internship is not, it's not a go for position. Internship is not for fetch this and fetch that and do data entry. It's not for that. It's not a guaranteed job offer from both ends. I mean if the organization likes the intern, it's not necessary that guy may join and vice versa. It's not for free labor. It's not for clerical or data entry jobs. Don't think, it's a different matter. We do give some data entry jobs to our interns. But then the product demands. But it's essentially, it's not a clerical job thing that we have had somebody who's a low cost thing, low cost person. So let's go ahead and, you know, and this is a takeaway from what I had been saying earlier. Mentorship. Internship cannot be an unguided and unsupervised experience. It cannot be. That is one of the biggest things that we have to stick with. It cannot be an unguiding thing. You can't hire an intern and then leave him often in the company. He'll just be there. I just read a quote somewhere. We said, Internship is a Debbie performance and not a dressy herself. So that is something that the interns here should understand that you have to be committed to it. Don't think of it as a dress rehearsal. Think of it more as your Debbie performance. Do you understand the difference between the two? Do you understand the difference between the two? All right. So again, from the interns' point of view, the purpose of internship, like you very rightly said, it's not the purpose is not to make money. The purpose is to learn as much as you can to assimilate the culture as much as you can and then go ahead and decide on what you do, what you want to do in the rest of your life. Now, yes, we should have an internship. I just hope that this talk of mine has influenced some of the people who have an internship program, but how to be really good at internship. You can't just go ahead and hire somebody as an intern and be happy with it. That's not an internship program. There are a few prerequisites. The first one, gain business-wide backing. What I mean by this is, take for example our company, yes, Aquia India is an entity, but we do have our bosses who are in the US. Unless and until each one of the layers, right from the CEO to the actual manager, unless and until all of them agree that yes, we want to hire an intern, yes, we want to go ahead with the internship program. The internship program will not be successful. The reasons behind that is, the topmost levels, they have to look at the financial part of it, right? The lower levels, I would not say the lower levels, the supervised levels, the mentor levels, they have to be ready to invest that amount of time, that amount of focus on that person. Unless and until they are ready, internship will not succeed. The financial aspect of it is also, is also on a different way. I as a person, I as a supervisor, I as a mentor have been assigned an intern and I have been told to mentor a person, but I have a project 100%. Can I do that? I will not be able to, I might try to do that if I am worrying about the outcome of that internship, but I will not be able to do a good job out of it. So unless and until the top management agrees to an internship program and allows that kind of business hit, allows that kind of financial hit into the company, the internship program cannot be successful. The second point is again the same. Investment in terms of money, even though there might not be, even if it's a free internship, and there might not be direct compensation that you are paying to the intern, it is possible, but the investment in terms of money is still there, because it's an opportunity cost.  What does that mean? That essentially means that we are losing 50% of his billable time. We have to invest. We have to plan the internship program. All right, tomorrow my intern is coming. What do I do with him? No, that will not help. And the reasons are very straightforward. I will just read out a few things there. So a comprehensive internship structure should include information on learning objectives, daily responsibilities, short and long term projects, supervisor assignments, evaluation procedures, policies and expectations, orientation and off-boarding processes. And these are the basic things that a plan should have. And the last part is put together our compensation plans. Please don't hire free interns. They might come to you, yes, but they'll not be our investor. Everybody likes money. All of us are sitting here for money, essentially. So plan a compensation program. Do I answer your question now? Any of you guys would like to create a question? Everybody agrees? Wow. All right. So again, I like red color when I want to invest. I think that's the end of my presentation as such. In conclusion, I would just like to say a few things which I've already said, but I would like to reiterate. Internship is a great way to sustain your talent pipeline. If you have an intern, you know that, okay, I can take up this project because I have this great intern and he is capable of becoming a full-time developer or a full-time manager or whatever within two months. So I am able to take on this project because I know that I have this guy in pipeline. When I'm hiring somebody, he might come, he might not come. There have been cases when people have accepted the offer later and the day of the journey they call up and say, oh, sorry, you're not coming. That happens. So internship is a great way to sustain your talent pipeline, but internship is not free for all. You have to invest in internship in terms of money, in terms of time, in terms of planning it out, in terms of almost everything. Think of internship as a full-time program and think of internship as a way to make your talent pipeline, to grow your talent pipeline. And frankly speaking, when you do something like this, you will be doing good for your own organization, for the educational institute in some way because you're absorbing people and for the academy as well in some way. That's all I had for today. Thank you. Questions? Any questions? Anything else? You would like to discuss? Sure. We said that this is an active mentorship required for internship. Yes. How do you prepare mentors that would be best? I mean, every project work and all that stuff.  That is a question we have not been able to answer even in our career. We are trying to build. And mentorship is something that comes... I mean, you might have a layer of people who are great technically, but not all of them are mentors. Not all of them have that thing in them. So that is something as a manager or as a... I don't know what level you are on, but you have to be able to figure out in a person that, yes, this guy can act as a mentor. Let's try to put somebody and see what happens. You have to take those kinds of risks. We have some awesome technical people, but they are not people's person. They just want to sit in a corner and we can't do much about it. In our company, it's one of the skills people are used to talking about. Everyone. Are you also a good trainer? Say, you can go through it and see what your best trainer is at the team with them because they all like to train people as a mentor. For example, I love to train. I love to sit with people and teach them something. But there are so many people who just don't like it. It's an intrinsic thing. You might be able to teach them a bit of that, but not really. It comes from within. So that is something you need to figure it out. There's no answer to this question, essentially. Sure. You can try to do that. For example, in our company, we do have a body program. Anybody who joins, he has to have a body for the first month which walks him through the hoops in some way in the sense that, okay, a person who joins, on the first day he sees his email, it's like full up of get-in-account-here, get-in-account-here, so many things. So a body program, yes, it helps. But again, being a good teacher, a good mentor is sort of an intrinsic quality which we might try to hone, but it's very difficult to make somebody a teacher, make somebody a mentor. It's difficult. Yes? Totally. Totally. I agree with that. And it's not always that the person who's new and who's being mentored learns. Almost every time, the person who's mentoring also learns a lot. The new perspective, the new thinking, lots of things. A person who's fresh has so much to offer. Yes? Yes, I totally agree. After 19 years in the industry, yes, I totally agree that we are now jaded, literally. So we have to have that fresh perspective. Anything else? Sure. At the beginning of the session, you mentioned that there's lack of quality root for developers, but there are competitions like Google Summer of Code to name a month. And India is one of the countries where there are many fruitful developers and PHP developers, PHP projects every year, every consecutive year that needs to be done. So where is that talent going? Who is coaching that? If you are saying, if you are from, if you are saying that there's lack of talent. I am not able to find them. Unfortunately. I don't know why. I don't know how, where they are going. But when I look through people who are applying, I look through people who are trying to join us or I sent out feelers to everybody. I am not finding people. India is at number two. Totally agree. Totally agree. We have a lot of Rupal talent. But. Not limited to Rupal talking about PHP projects. In generally. I don't deny that. But again, the level of expertise, you are talking about Google Summer of Code. How many people actually go through that? It doesn't matter for what. But you have, yeah. Yeah. But do you, do you actually learn, how do you learn when you are in Google Summer of Code? How do you learn? You code and you learn. You don't have active membership, active mentorship. Do you agree? Yeah. To be specific, at this one, there is a mentor and you constantly are interested in that. Yes. But I participated in this one. Some other project where I put in a message. Yes, sir. I applied for, as for a girl in our family. That's totally different. From what I, Suji's perspective was, we don't know how to get that talent. We are not getting that talent. We are not getting. We are, that talent is somehow hidden. I don't know. If I look at, even if I look at, generally, if I look at, let's say, nokri.com, I see, I mean, search for Drupal and you'll see a huge list of resumes. Yes. But one thing is, what is the level of their own? I, sure. Sir, what I face a lot with people, white people don't choose for Drupal is because this initial learning curve is too long. I'm not interested in it and they say, yes, totally. And they don't realize that actually they can make much more money with Drupal. So, I think the stats also that were shown this morning. Hmm. Yeah, I'm also, I'm going to put it on my blog. That's done in Drupal.  You were saying something, sir? Yes. Should be? Should be. Totally agree. Yes. When I interview a person, I don't ask about the language syntax. I would ask for a pseudo-program. If I'm actually, yes, normally if I'm hiring specifically for Drupal, specifically, but if I go for an intern thing, I would like to, I would not really want that, I would not really think that I want a PHP developer only or a Drupal developer only. I would like to think, I would like to see how his flow is. Is he, is his fundamentals clear? Is his thought process clear? Because if a person can write a pseudo-code, he can pick up any language and go ahead with that. Yes. It's not a nice language. Ouch. Yeah. I agree. Sometimes PHP is called a younger sister of C in some ways, which is much more open and much more okay with whatever. Including C. Including C, yes. Totally agree. Of course. Exactly. I totally agree. And that's what, in conclusion, that's exactly what I said. What I said was that when we are investing in an internship program, we are actually doing something for the community. We are doing something for the academia. We're doing something for the students. Sure. You just said that you're not getting a lot of people compared mentioned before. A lot of the institutions are not even aware there's something called a Drupal. My institution, honestly speaking yesterday, was the first time I attended a Drupal lecture. I know. You were in my training, so I know exactly. So as a student, as a pressure, I would look for something which is job security. If I'm learning something, I would go for cloud computing. It's like a recent trending thing. Trending thing, alright. My project is on cloud, actually. That is the reason I'm actually talking about it. So I would talk about something which I have and ensure future. Sure. C and C++, they actually ensure a future. So... Alright. There's a three six. Drupal also ensures a future. And sorry, guys, but we have to, we'll have to move this discussion outside. Thanks a lot.


Hi and welcome to the session, I am Asha and I am going to help you with the following question that says in figure 6.41 if A B is parallel to D angle B A C is equal to 35 degree and angle C D E is equal to 53 degree find angle D C E that is we have to find this angle. So let us begin with the solution and we are given that A B is parallel to D angle B A C is equal to 35 degree and angle C D E is equal to 53 degree and we have to find angle D C E. Now since A B is parallel to D A E be the transversal and this implies angle E D will be equal to angle B as this angle is equal to this angle since it is a pair of alternate interior angles. These are intersected by a transversal and the two lines are parallel then the alternate interior angles are equal. Now angle B A C is 35 degree so this implies angle A E D is also 35 degree or we can say angle C E D is 35 degree. Let us number this equation as equation number 1. Now in triangle D C E sum of three angles angle D C E plus angle C E D plus angle E D C is equal to 180 degree since in a triangle sum of three angles is equal to 180 degree. Now angle D C E we have to find out angle C E D is 35 degree this is from equation number 1 plus angle E D C is given to us which is 53 degree which is equal to 180 or we can say that angle D C E plus on adding 35 with 53 get 88 is equal to 180 degree or we can say that angle D C E is equal to 92 degree our answer is angle D C E is equal to 92 degree which completes solution hope you enjoyed it take care and bye for now


It is not unusual for us to witness the people door-to-door on the campus, in the parks, and it's not unusual for someone to come to this church, sit under the preaching or teaching of God's word, and when we're witnessing to them, when they're sitting under the preaching, and they will say, I've never heard this before. Many have owned a Bible as far back as they can remember. They've professed to be a Christian since the time that they could speak, and they would say, I've never heard these things before. I've never heard it explained this way to me. I never knew what that word meant. I thought repentance was asking for forgiveness. I can't believe that the sinner's prayer is nowhere in the Bible. I've never heard these things before. A tragic testimony of the despicable state of the professing church today, but a very common occurrence. People are estranged from the Bible. Don't know the word of God.


A warm welcome to the 45th session on the subject of wavelets and multirate digital signal processing. In this session, we continue the scheme of tutorial discussions that we have initiated in the last few sessions. You will recall that in the previous session we had placed before your tutorial, a tutorial on the two-band filter bank from the point of view of the time domain. We wanted to understand in depth how a signal progresses through the different stages of a two-band filter bank and emerges with perfect reconstruction. Of course, subjected to a delay and if we have not taken care of then the constant multiplication as well. Today we shall take up from the question or the exercises that we had put before you in the previous session on the frequency domain analysis of the two-band filter bank. We had introduced the questions that we would like to deal with in the session today. Namely, how do you see the sinusoid being treated by different stages of the two-band filter bank? What does the two-band filter bank do in the frequency domain and how can be illustrated by the use of a sine wave? The time domain and the frequency domain are of course as we all very well know two alternate domains for looking at a two-band filter bank. Each of them has its advantages and limitations. The advantage of the time domain approach or perspective is to understand precisely what the filter bank does to the signal in the natural domain. What would happen when the signal is passed through the filters? How would it look at different stages is what one answers when one looks at it in the time domain or the natural domain. However, when we have persistent signals, when we have long term behavior in mind and we wish to look at the sinusoidal content both at the input and the output, it is the frequency domain characteristic of the two-band filter bank which comes into play and is of importance. So, therefore, we must in these tutorial sessions look at both of these domains in fairness, appreciate the role of both of the domains in their entirety and appreciate also the distinctions between the way in which we deal with the two domains. Therefore, today we shall take up the frequency domain. By frequency I mean sinusoidal frequency domain and look at the two-band filter bank with some example prototype inputs studying the outputs at different points. So, coming then to the tutorial session, what we intend to do today is to look at a typical filter bank. So, we have again the same good old two-band filter bank. However, we shall not assume it is the standard ideal filter bank this time. So, for example, let us take a variant of the two-band filter bank to understand why we need so called half-band filters and what would happen if the filters were not half-band. So, suppose you happen to choose a low pass filter here on the upper branch with a cutoff of 2 pi by 3 instead of pi by 2 and you choose on the lower branch a high pass filter again with a cutoff of 2 pi by 3. So, we are trying to see what happens if we deviate from the norm. So, of course, we have the standard down sampler following it and let us say this constitutes the analysis side. Following this, we shall have the synthesis sides. These are points let us say A and B and on the synthesis side, we have let us assume the same two filters of course, following an up sampler. We of course, succeed that by an addition and this is what we are calling synthesis here although I must emphasize the words analysis and synthesis here are only notional. So, we will call the input signal x and the output signal y and we will remember that we are talking about the sinusoidal frequency domain here. So, in other words, we are working with the discrete time Fourier transforms or DTFTs of the signals at every point. Now, what is the deviation from the ideal 2 band filter bank here? The deviation is that the low pass and high pass filters have a different cutoff. In the ideal 2 band filter bank, the cutoff was pi by 2 and we call them half band ideal filters. Now, we are trying to study the effect of well ideal low pass and high pass filters, but with a non ideal cutoff. So, we are not taking the cutoff to be pi by 2, but 2 pi by 3 and in some sense there is a complementarity. I mean what we are trying to study is even if there is complementarity between the two filters. In other words, what one filter passes the other stops and what one filter stops the other passes. Even so, are we going to have reconstruction, are we going to suffer some kind of distortion if so, what distortion will occur. So, with that background, now let us take a prototype discrete time Fourier transform again to study the behavior of this 2 band filter bank. So, we will take the so called prototype x erase the power j omega which should look like this. So, 0 phase x erase the power j omega. Needless to say, I am representing the discrete time Fourier transform between minus pi and pi and this is repeated at every multiple of 2 pi. So, around 2 pi you would have the same pattern around minus 2 pi, around minus 4 pi, around 4 pi and so on so forth. Now, let us again mark the different points on the original filter bank. So, we had here the analysis side. On the analysis side let us mark them as usual with y 1 here, y 2 here, y 3, y 4. So, we have 4 points on the analysis side and of course, y 3 and y 4 are respectively a and b again. So, we have y 3, y 4 back here on the synthesis side and this gives you y 5 here, y 6 here, y 7 here and y 8 here and we shall call the output y 0 if you please just to keep a subscript there as well. Now, what we intend to do first is to look at these points y 1, y 2 followed by the points y 5 and y 6. We remember the reason why it is easier first to look at what happens across both the down sampler and the up sampler and later to jump across the up sampler. In other words to come from y 5 to y 3. So, let us put down, let us recall the relationships that govern the discrete time Fourier transforms at different points here. So, this is the prototype, the prototype. You know why this is called a prototype? Well, it is because when we put this as the input each frequency has a different amplitude here. So, in some sense there is a one to one relation between omega and the amplitude. So, in some sense this is the simplest kind of a spectrum where each frequency has a distinct amplitude and we have done away with phase for simplicity. Now, let us look at what happens at the points y 1 and y 2. So, of course, y 1 is easy. What we should do is to plot three periods at a time. So, in general it is always, it is always a good idea to consider three successive periods of 2 pi and those three without any loss of generality could be minus 3 pi to minus pi, minus pi to plus pi and plus pi to plus 3 pi and doing so, we first start with the prototype spectrum again. So, the prototype spectrum looks like this in these three standard periods. Now, at the point y 1 we would be passing everything between 0 and 2 pi by 3 and rejecting the rest. So, what we would see at the point y 1 is as follows. Let us mark these points once again and let us mark the point 2 pi by 3 here and minus 2 pi by 3 here and there we are. If this height be 1, this height would be 1 by 3 that is easy to see and of course, this is repeated. As I said it is always a good idea to draw three periods. This is minus 2 pi. So, I will just mark the critical points. This is minus pi here. So, minus 4 pi by 3 and minus 8 pi by 3 here. So, this is of course, well minus 2 pi by 3 plus 2 pi. So, you know it is when I write minus 2 pi by 3, it is 2 pi minus pi by 3 that I mean actually. So, this would be 4 pi by 3 here and this is 8 pi by 3 here. So, please correct. Let us correct these markings here. So, of course, this point is 1. This point is 1 by 3 here. This is simple. Similarly, for y 2, I strongly recommend that in the tutorial sessions the student should work with the instructor. In the tutorial sessions, the whole idea is that the instructor solves something on a virtual blackboard or a virtual whiteboard here and the student works with the instructor. So, that is the reason why I am going through every step because I expect the listener or the participant to be working with me. Anyway, coming back to this tutorial. So, here we have here what emerges out of y 2 is this. So, of course, this point is 1 by 3 here and this is repeated here and as expected this point is 2 pi by 3. So, we mark a few of them and of course, these are negative of those points. So, you have minus 4 pi by 3 there and minus 8 pi by 3 here. So, so much so for y 2 now comes the interesting part. You see we need to worry what happens with the down and the up sampler together. So, let us write the equations down in the z domain first. In the z domain, if we have let us say g in here and a down sampler of 2 followed by an up sampler of 2 to produce g out and if they are respective z transforms are g in z and g out z then we have the very simple relationship g out z is half g in z plus g in minus z and we know how to interpret this in the frequency domain. When we put z is equal to e raise to the power j omega what we would get is g out e raise to the power j omega or the discrete time Fourier transform g out is half g in e raise to the power j omega plus g in minus z and we know how to interpret this in the e raise to the power j omega plus minus pi. We have done this before essentially multiplication by minus 1 of the variable z amounts to a translation of pi. Just to complete the discussion I would like to complete that one step which proves this. So, remember g out z has two terms one is the original DTFT multiplied by half plus half time what is called the alias DTFT and the alias DTFT is obtained by replacing z by minus z or e raise to the power j omega by minus e raise to the power j omega and minus e raise to the power j omega is essentially e raise to the power plus minus j pi e raise to the power minus j omega or rather j omega which gives us a shift of pi.  So, we will come to y 5 and y 6 first let us do the easier one first let us do y 2 to y 6 first. So, we have y 2 followed by a down sampler and then an up sampler to result in y 6 and of course, y 6 e raise to the power j omega is obtained as half y 2 e raise to the power j omega plus y 2 e raise to the power j omega plus minus pi and we will solve this graphically to get y 6 e raise to the power j omega looks like this again to draw three periods. So, we had this here this was the original DTFT this point is 2 pi by 3 this one minus 2 pi by 3 and of course, the others are as usual the only thing one must remember is this is what y 2 look like. So, let us first draw y 2 shifted by pi. So, when you shift it by pi you could shift forward or backward it does not matter because this is periodic with period 2 pi. So, if we shifted backward for convenience we would get the following we will show the aliased ones in dotted remember this is again periodically repeated here. So, when we bring it backwards we are going to see these aliases too they only catch is that there is also a factor of half if you recall there is a factor of half and therefore, it is not one third here it is one sixth now these are the original spectra y 2 e raise to the power j omega as it is and these are the aliased spectra essentially obtained by a shift of pi. Now, it is easy to see what will happen when you subject this to the action of the high pass filter with the cut off of pi by 3. So, here if we notice or rather 2 pi by 3. So, when we subjected to the action of high pass filter we can see that in the primary period that is between minus pi and pi essentially the black solid lines are retained and these dotted lines are destroyed. So, the high pass filter with the cut off of pi by 3 as expected retains the original spectrum and destroys the aliases. So, this is the good part of the filter bank in the sense it does what we expected after passing through the down and the up sampler we have retained whatever was there of the original spectrum and destroyed the aliases. Now, we need to see what happens on the low pass branch and I said that is the more difficult one. So, difficult one because that is where there is going to be aliasing in the first place. So, we are going to have some trouble.   This is the original and this is the aliases and here the aliases will really aliases on the original spectrum as we will see in a minute. So, here we are 2 pi by 3 here minus 2 pi by 3 there of course, 2 pi minus 2 pi by 3. So, you have 4 pi by 3 here 8 pi by 3 there minus 4 pi by 3 here and minus 8 pi by 3 here and you have the spectral components which look like this. This is essentially the original spectrum as it were and the aliased spectrum would be obtained by translating this by pi the only catch is that now we are going to have an overlap. So, first let us draw the aliased spectra the aliased spectra would be from would be around pi of course. So, you would have you see 0 to pi by 3 you will bring this from pi to 5 pi by 3 here. So, there we are at pi it will be 1 I can of course, complete the other drawing, but let me focus just on the region between minus pi and pi. So, let me first complete this part. So, I have this being brought to rather this you see we shifted this forward. So, we will shift this forward as well. So, we have this coming here this is where we are and now we need to be a little careful about the amplitudes once again this was originally an amplitude of half, but now rather it was an amplitude of 1, but now with a factor of half you have an amplitude of half here and so to here this would be one third ordinarily, but it is becoming one sixth now because of the factor of half. So, now we have to pay particular attention to the region between pi by 3 and 2 pi by 3 where there is a aliasing in that region we have sums of straight lines. So, at this point for example, this point has the amplitude half this point has the amplitude 1 by 6 this point has the amplitude in between them. So, this is 3 by 6 1 by 6 this will be 2 by 6 and 2 by 6 and 1 by 6. So, you go back to half there that is interesting. So, you are adding this back here. So, what we get on adding so this you see these are the aliases the dotted lines are the aliases and these are the original spectra and we have to add them. So, when we add what we are going to get is a pattern like this and I will show only the region between minus pi and pi now because that will tell us everything about the rest. So, between minus pi and pi let me expand the figure I have pi by 3 here the trouble region is between pi by 3 and 2 pi by 3 and of course, similarly on the negative side. So, of course, from 0 to pi by 3 it is easy it drops from half to 1 by 2 by 2 by 6. So, 1 by 3 now from here there is a discontinuity. So, as you can see the spectrum goes from half linearly down to essentially 1 by 3 here actually it should be 2 by 3, but because of the factor of half it comes down to 1 by 3 here and at this point a discontinuity arises because of the addition of this spectrum here. So, this contributes another 1 by 6 here. So, this goes back to half and continues up to half continues at the at the height of half up to this point here. Subsequently again it drops and then rises up to half. So, this is how the spectrum looks goes back to half here drops and rises back tricky, but not too difficult to understand once we work out the details these are all at half and this is at 1 by 3 and of course, this is replicated on the other side. So, this is the spectrum at the point y 5 and now it is very easy to see what happens at the point y 7 and at the point y 8. Of course, y 8 we have seen before. So, when we subjected to the action of a high pass filter with cut off 2 pi by 3 we essentially got back everything without aliasing, but here we have a slight difference of situation. You see here we are going to get now remember when we cut off at a cut off of 2 pi by 3 we are going to get this and this. So, what we are going to get is the following at y 7. Again let us draw only the period from 0 to pi for the moment to emphasize matters and here of course, this is nulled this is at the point y 7. Essentially by subject to the low pass filter with cut off of 2 pi by 3 and now it is easy to reconstruct y 0, y 0 is essentially y 7 plus y 8. So, let us complete the discussion by reconstructing y 0 not really reconstructing the true sense, but trying to reconstruct as it were and again it should be satisfactory for us to look only at the period from minus pi to pi. This is what y 0 looks like. So, now it illustrates very clearly in the frequency domain what the consequence of the non ideal cut offs is. Although the two filters looked to be complementary because one of the filters did not obey the requirement of aliasing or rather had a pass span beyond pi by 2 you see the aliasing taking place there. As expected the aliasing takes place to the extent that we have exceeded the pi by 2 band. The excess was from pi by 2 to 2 pi by 3 and therefore, you have aliasing between pi by 2 and 2 pi by 3 that is you know 2 pi by 3 minus pi by 2 on one side of pi by 3 as also on the other. So, aliasing occurs on both sides of pi by 2 in the same band extent. The band extent is pi by 6 2 pi by 3 that is 4 pi by 6 minus 3 pi by 6. So, the what we have tried to illustrate here is that pi by 2 comes here. So, this is the point pi by 2. Mark it this pi by 2 here and of course, similarly on the other side, but you have an equal band on both sides a band of pi by 6 on either side where there is a aliasing. Let us make a note of that aliasing has occurred in a band of extent 2 pi by 3 minus pi by 2 which is pi by 6 on either side of pi by 2. So, much so then for an example of a frequency domain behavior where we are not adhering to the actual requirements of cutoff. Now, let us look at some of the variants of the 2 band filter bank. This time in fact, not just the 2 band filter bank, but also hybrid filter bank where we have a 3 band and a 2 band combination. So, in some sense what we were trying to do here was to bring in a hybrid, but the down and up sampling factors was still 2. Now, let us bring in a hybrid where we also change the down and up sampling factors. So, for example, suppose I wanted to get an effective down sampling factor of 2 by 3. In other words, I wanted to bring down the rate by a factor of 2 by 3 instead of half what could I possibly do? So, what I mean is is it conceivable that we have a low pass filter with a cutoff of 2 pi by 3 and a down sampling factor of 2 pi by of 2 by 3 or rather down 3 by 2 which means the rate goes by a factor of 2 by 3. Is this possible? Of course, we will have to reflect on what this would actually mean in terms of components. You see, one way to interpret this is to think of this as an upsampling of 2 and a down sampling of 3. So, perhaps we could interpret a down sampling by a factor of 3 by 2 as a down sampling by a factor of 3 followed by an upsampling by a factor of 2. The only problem is that when you down sample by 3 something is already lost. You have already lost two thirds of the information and upsampling does not retrieve information. One must remember that upsampling is invertible, down sampling is not. So, perhaps it might be a better idea to upsample first and then down sample. Why so? Because this does not cause loss of information. There is no loss of information here and whatever loss we are prepared to incur should be incurred in the end, incur a loss only in the end and let us see what this does spectrally. In fact, suppose we were to take this very same spectrum. So, we have this prototype spectrum once again and we subject it to the action of a low pass filter with cutoff 2 pi by 3. What would we get? We would get this. Now, let us see what happens when we subject it first to an upsampler. So, when we subject it to an upsampler, we know there is essentially a creation of images. So, let us call this spectrum, let us mark the spectrum and different points. So, we will assume that we have x here. We subject it to an upsampler by a factor of 2 to get y 1. Perhaps we need to do some filtering here and then we would down sample by a factor of 3.  Now, again y 1 e raise the power j omega would appear like this. Now, it is easy for me to draw only the interval from minus pi to pi because I have got used to seeing the other two copies at 2 pi and minus 2 pi. I can visualize them in my mind and I can put down the appropriate segment that appears between minus pi and pi. So, let me project before you once again the output at the point y 1 after we have subjected x here to the action of a filter. So, of course, here I thought instead of taking x, let us take the filtered x here. Filtered x means filtered so that it has a spectral component only up to 2 pi by 3. So, this is the spectrum of the filtered x. Maybe we will give it a name. We will call it x tilde. So, now you can visualize. When we subject this to an upsampler by a factor of 2, this pi would come to pi by 2 and at pi you would have what is present at 2 pi. So, therefore, at the point y 1 on this sequence here on this graph, I would get well pi by 2 there, pi here minus pi by 2 minus pi. So, only this part needs to be brought here. So, what was originally at 2 pi by 3 will now come to pi by 3 and here to we need to bring only this part. This is 1 by 3 here. So, 1 here, 1 by 3. Now, we understand the role that the filter needs to play after y 1. So, we have a filter. Let us call that filter f 1 here. The role that this filter needs to play is to take away these images. So, f 1 removes these images. Now, it is very easy to see that after these images are removed, what we have is something that we can reconstruct or we can allow to be down sampled by 3 without any loss of information.  With that then, what we would have left in the interval between minus pi and pi is essentially just this. So, this goes from 1 to 1 by 3 here and the rest of it is blanked out. Now, when we subject this to the action of a down sampler by 3, we would essentially get back the original spectrum, but expanded to fill the entire interval. So, when we down sample this by 3, what would emerge is essentially the following at y 0. Not 1 here, but 1 by 3 and not 1 by 3 here, but 1 by 9. Essentially, the same spectrum informed, but changed in amplitude. So, what we have done here is to create an effective down sampler by a factor of 3 by 2 and we needed to do it by combining a down sampling and up sampling operation. With that then, we come to the end of this tutorial session where we have tried to illustrate a few variants of frequency domain analysis of the filter bank. In the first part, we brought in a variant of the two-band filter bank. In the second part, we brought in a variant of the down sampling factor. We look forward to more sessions in the future with other kinds of explanations and discussions. Thank you.