multiple staff members are here today to ensure that the meeting runs smoothly and all applicants and members of the public are able to participate in the meeting at the appropriate times. Today we've had a couple technical difficulties and we'll be going through this in more old-fashioned but if anyone hopefully we can get the process out there and everybody understands as we go. If you're here today and would like to speak about a case please provide your name clearly into the microphone and please be sure to sign in either at the back of the room or at the podium for documentation purposes. If you're here today to speak about a case you must speak up when the chairperson calls for public comment and we'll do a roll call. Yes sir. Mr. Cohn. President. Mr. Cook. President. Ms. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Harp. Mr. Tupper. Here. We have quorum. I'll give a brief review of the meeting format. Applicants with requests before the Planning Commission are allotted a presentation time of 10 minutes. This time should include but is not limited to an overview of the project case history and any pertinent meetings held regarding the request. This time also includes all persons presenting information on behalf of the applicant such as attorneys engineers and architects. This time limit does not include any questions asked by the Planning Commission or staff regarding request. During the public comment period members of the general public are given the opportunity to address their concerns in intervals of two minutes. After the public comment period applicants have five minutes to respond. Once the Planning Commission begins deliberation no additional comments will be permitted by the applicant or the public. The administrator has a timer and will make presenters aware of when their time has expired. The Planning Commission reserves the right to amend these procedures on a case-by-case basis. Are there any changes to the agenda? There have not been any changes since publication. All right. The Planning Commission uses the Consent Agenda to approve non-controversial or routine matters by a single motion or vote. Examples of such items on the Consent Agenda include approval of site plans, annexations, and street names. If a member of the Planning Commission or the general public wants to discuss an item on the Consent Agenda, you must speak up after the Consent Agenda is read. Then that item is removed from the Consent Agenda and discussed during the meeting with public comment. The Planning Commission then approves the remaining Consent Agenda items. I'll go ahead and read the Consent Agenda. The first item is to approve, pardon me, approve the March 9th, 2023 minutes. The second case is an interim future land use map amendment and interim zoning map amendment for appending annexation, which is annex-2023-0004 at 800 Dutch Square Boulevard. This is request recommendation on the assignment of interim land use classifications of Urban Core Community Activity Center, UCAC-2, an assignment of interim zoning of Community Activity Center corridor CAC for appending annexation. The property is currently classified as mixed use corridor in priority investment area and designated Community Activity Center and zoned GC by Richland County. Case three is a major site plan review. This is Esplat-2022-0032, 17.5 acres at the 3,900 block of Percival Road near Antler Way. Request preliminary plat approval for the construction of an 87 lot attached townhome subdivision, Carlton Glen. The properties are zoned RM1, General Residential. Case four, Esplat-2023-0024, 29.17 acres, Riding Grove Road. Request site plan approval for the construction of 11 lot single family residential subdivision, Pecon Orchard phase two, formerly Pecon Grove. The property is currently zoned plan development and Wood Creek farms. Case five is a zoning map amendment. This is ZMA-2023-0003, 4401 Windmere Avenue. Request recommendation to rezone the property from Residential Single Family Medium Lot District, RSF2 to Residential Mix District, RM2. Case six, ZMA-2023-0004, 3035 South Pickin Street. Request recommendation to rezone the property from Neighborhood Activity Center Corridor, NAC, in the Airport Safety Overlay District, OVA, to Residential Mixed District, RM2. Case seven, Zoning Map Amendment, ZMA-2023-0005, 611 Holly Street. Request recommendation to rezone the property from Residential Mixed District, RM1, in the Community Character Protection Overlay District, OVCCP, to Community Activity Center Corridor, CAC, in the Community Character Protection Overlay District, OVCCP. Case number eight, ZMA-2023-0006, 620 Meadow Street. Request recommendation to rezone the property from Office and Institutional District, OI, in the Community Character Protection Overlay District, OVCCP, to Neighborhood Activity Center Corridor District, NAC, in the Community Character Protection Overlay District, OVCCP. And case nine, ZMA-2023-0007, next to 405 Dervais Street. Request recommendation to rezone the property from Plan Development District, PD, in the City Center Design Overlay District, and height and set back View Corridor Protection Overlay District, to Community Activity Center Corridor District, CAC, in the City Center Design District Overlay, and height and set back View Corridor Protection Overlay District. And that concludes the items on the Consent Agenda this evening. Thank you. Is there anyone on the Planning Commission with any questions or who would like to have an item removed from the Consent Agenda? And is there anyone from the public who would like an item removed from the Consent Agenda? Do I have a, I guess, with that, do I have a motion and a second to accept the Consent Agenda subject to all conditions? So are there, you're here to speak about one of those items, okay, which item was it, ma'am? Windermere? Okay. Thank you. So, yeah, hang on, we need to get a motion. Could y'all just get a motion to remove that item? Could I have a motion to remove item number five, ZMA-2023-003 4401 Windermere Avenue from the Consent Agenda for regular discussion? I'll make a motion to 3MA-2023-0034401 Windermere to discussion. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Number five will be moved to the regular agenda. Before we entertain any motions on the balance of the Consent Agenda, is there anyone else in the public who would like to have another case heard removed from the Consent Agenda? They're not near and away. Did you sign in? I didn't, where do I need to sign in? It's okay, there's a sign in the back of the room, but we can do that in a minute. Number three, okay. All right. Thank you. Can I get a motion to have S-Plat-2022-0032 for 17.58 acres on the 3,900 block of Percival Road near Antler Way, removed from the Consent Agenda for discussion on the regular agenda? Move to remove S-Plat-2022-0032 from the Consent Agenda. Can I get a second? Second. All those in favor? Item number three will be on the regular agenda. Is there anyone else? Can you come to the podium, please? We have a chance to debate why we're being mixed. So if there's any, whether it's from the Commission or the public, any request to have the case heard or obligated to do so, but you will have the opportunity to present your case on the on the regular agenda. Okay, I'm sorry, I have a hard time hearing you. Sorry as well. My hearing aids went bad on me. No, it's a good question. If there's anyone on the Planning Commission who would like to have an item removed for further discussion or anyone from the public were obligated as a body to provide that opportunity to the public. So does this mean we move it to the next level next month? No, sir. It will be on the agenda today for regular discussion. So we stick around and then we're, okay, thank you. Yes. If there are no other requests from the public or the Planning Commissioners to remove any items off the Consent Agenda, I'll entertain a motion to approve the remainder of the Consent Agenda. Mr. Chair, I move that the remaining items on the Consent Agenda be accepted as presented. I get a second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye's have it. Listen to how would you like us to start with the general cases? I guess we need to start with case number three, just in the order of which they were on the agenda. Okay. So that's S-plot. So this will be S-plot dash 2022 dash 0032 17.58 acres on Percival Road near Antler Way. And this is this property is located in 3900 block of Percival Road near Antler Way. And the proposed subdivision will contain 87 attached single-family residences on 17.58 acres. The single-family lodge will range in size from 1,705 to 4,995 square feet and some of the property will be preserved as open space. In accordance with section 17 dash 2.5, application for specific review procedures and decision standards, J subdivision of the Unified Development Ordinance, a preliminary plaque shall be approved upon finding that the proposed preliminary plaque is in substantial conformity with the approved sketch plan and complies with the standards of Article 6 land development subdivision standards and any other applicable standards of this ordinance and any other applicable ordinances and regulations. And the sketch plan approval letter for this project is attached to the Planning Commission packet. And if the Commission would be so inclined to grant this approval, staff requests that the Commission make the finding that all the requirements in section 17 dash 2.5 listed above are met and that they're also conditioned upon staff comments. Thank you. Are there any questions from any of the other Planning Commissioners? So this is basically an extension of the adjacent subdivision or apartment complex. It's not connected to the adjacent subdivision. Does anyone else have any questions? Is the applicant present to provide an overview of the project? How are you all? Good, thank you. Can you please tell us your name? Yeah, my name is Phillip Reames. I am with PC land development. Representing about the Carlton Glenn Project. 87 units. And I heard a question. I think about whether it was connected to the apartments at one time we were had talked about possibly having an emergency fire exit for fire services and emergency services through the apartment complex next door. But since we're under 100 units, we did not have to have an emergency exit through the apartment complex. Happy to answer any questions on my head. Does anyone have any questions of the applicant? May have some more in a moment. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any members of the public who would like to speak in favor or against the project or the site plan? I should say. I live in the subdivision that's going to be adjacent to this development. May I get your name again, please? Nancy Bihena. Thank you. And years ago, almost 13 years ago, that land that they're going to be using was part of our subdivision. I picked my land to build my house because it was supposed to be a cul-de-sac with just two additional homes. The developer went bankrupt, never developed that land next to me, which our HOA has been maintaining and our HOA deals have been paying to maintain. The land recently went into foreclosure for lack of paying taxes. They are bringing heavy equipment in and over my driveway. I don't know what they're doing in our subdivision. When that land got rezoned years ago that I fought it was supposed to be for another subdivision behind me for over 200 units and they were supposed to build their own road coming in from personal road, not using our subdivision, but that's not what's happening or that's not what I'm seeing what's happening. Today I hear there's going to be an 87 town home type subdivision. I don't know where that came from, how all that got approved, never got notification of it. And this has been going on for years. It's just, it's fate and switch. You know, they present something to the city, the city approves it and then they change it. They lied to the city and said the land next to me was lower than my house. So the drainage pond, they are going to put five feet from my property line, 30 feet by 40 feet is what was proposed and part of their development. It's going to be five feet from my garage or 10 feet because I'm on a five foot property line. They were going to build on my property line five feet behind me going up 44 feet for three to four storey building. The city told me to build a fence. The land behind me is already eight feet higher than my house. I can build a six foot fence. So I don't know what's going next to me. Is it going to be adjacent to my house? Is every animal in those woods going to be now living in my garage? Um, it just, I can't see how we can approve this. I mean, at some point we've got to draw the line. The subdivision can't handle more traffic. You can't get out on Percival Road as it is. We have two entrances and a fire entrance. If they're going to be using our entrance as well for another 87 units, we'll never get in and out on Percival Road. And we have major accidents out there on Percival Road. We had a head on collision in the middle of the night. It just, it can't go on on Percival Road. It's only a two lane highway. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public who would like to comment on this item? I have a question relative to the plan. Does that, it appears to me the access is only off Percival Road. Is that? That's correct. It's not through the other subdivision. Correct. Okay. Yes, they have their own ingress and egress. So are they, are they connected? They are not. They're not. OK. And then I guess is there. Does this project and you may have done it. Does it warrant a traffic impact study or? It does not. Does not. OK. Mr. Chair, can we get a little bit more clarity on the. Interest is in excesses on Percival Road from the developer because I'm not clear on how that's coming through. Could we speak with the applicant? My name is Justin Wehring. I'm the engineer. Engineer on the project. Sorry. Yeah, it's just the one. We have a new entrance off of Percival Road. Full exit and access. So it's not connected to anything else out there. When I look at the the interest is from Percival, it's just one small area. That's why I'm questioning. So it's going to appear in that area. Kind of at the top of the property, if I'm looking at it correctly. This got a bigger, got a bigger plan. So that that top right corner is Percival Road. Correct. Thank you. I guess you can buy these two parcels, maybe 17 or 14 and three. Can you talk a little bit about the it looks like I think there's two detention ponds on there. Can you talk a little bit more about? I guess what's around there, it looks like there's I can't tell. There's a mass. There's a massive wetlands. Gil's Creek goes right. That's this down here is Gil's Creek. So we've got a pretty significant buffer. We've got to maintain at least a minimum 30 foot wetland buffer, which we're maintaining. In most places, it's bigger than that. It's like 50 feet. So the one of the ponds is going to discharge directly into that wetlands, Gil's Creek area. The other one discharges into a wetland area as well. But I mean, obviously we're meeting all the city requirements for reducing the stormwater compared to existing conditions. Right. Is there is there. I think this is the landscaping plan. Is there any trees around those ponds? Is that what the dark here is? The lines? Yeah, I guess I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. But yeah, there were some plannings going around the ponds for screening. And we've gone through staff comments have responded to those at this point. Thank you. Does anyone have any other questions? Jonathan, do you mind telling me again, I think you said if there is a motion to approve with staff, all staff recommendations, what the conditions, what that number was? Sure. If Section 17, 2.5, there are certain criteria with regards to approving a preliminary plan and it must be in substantial conformity with the approved sketch plan and with the standards of Article 6 of the land development standards and any other applicable standards and ordinances. So if the planning commission is inclined to grant approval, you would just need to make a proof of it. You would just need to grant it with the condition that with the finding that all of the requirements have been met. Any further discussion? We'll entertain a motion. So, Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to approve SPLAT 2022-0032 with staff modifications. Do you need a spell specifically that? Yeah, no mind. 17.2.5. 17.2. And Article 6 of the land development. Go ahead and all staff comments. Do I need to withdraw that motion and then restate it or?  I'll withdraw the previous motion and Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to approve SPLAT 2022-0032 with staff comments that it... I'm sorry, to state this motion, what is the motion exactly that? 17.2.5 with staff comments or? An article with Chris having that. I'm just trying to make sure we have the proper garbage before we go forward with that. If it's a motion to approve, it would be a motion to approve the application with staff comments and all requirements met for Article 17.2.5 and 6 of the land development. Okay. I'll withdraw my previous motion. Make sure that it says that all the requests have been made with staff comments and it also needs to require... You want to make that motion? I don't know if I can't hear you. I'll take a stab at it. Mr. Chair, I move that SPLAT 22-02-0032 be approved. And it requires that all requests have been met and with staff comments for Section 17.2 on Article 6. That's sufficient. I think that you could say that y'all recommend that it would probably something like you make a motion to approve the PLAT with the finding that all of the requirements of Section 17-2.5 have been met and with all staff comments. You want me to just make a stab? Do you want me to send it to you? I'll put the motion out that we recommend approval for SPLAT 2022-0032 for 17.58 acres of the 3,900 block of Percival Road near Antler Way, TMS number 22714-01-02 and 22713-01-01 with the findings that the plan generally conforms to all the guidelines that staff comments are addressed and all requirements of Section 17.2.5 and Article 6 of the land development code are met. Second. All those in favor? Review case number five from the consent agenda. Yes. Case number five, this is a zoning map amendment, ZMA-2023-0003, 4401 Windermere Avenue. This is a request for recommendation to rezone the property from Residential Single Family Medium Lot District, RSF-2, to Residential Mixed District, RM-2, and the applicant is here and I guess if you'd like to come up and present your request, please. Can you provide an overview of it first? Basically, we're just trying to turn this into a multi-family home. The house itself is, we've had professional plumbers, like trishins go through and say that we can do this to the unit. Can I, can we, yes, may I hold on one moment, please? Can we hold on just one moment and get a case overview and then we'll call you up? Thank you. Sorry. Okay, sorry. So I guess just as a brief overview, this is a property on Windermere Avenue. It's a large kind of L-shaped property that is, has a land use of UCR-1 and the request is to rezone it from the current zoning of RSF-2 to RM-2. And I apologize, I think I may have given my case summary away for somebody to read, but basically it's just, it's consistent with the future land use plan. And also, it is a larger property. The applicant will talk about more what they want to do with the property, but it is adjacent to some RM-2 properties in that neighborhood. Oh, thank you. And so the staff recommendation is to approve the request, seeing that it is consistent with the, with the, with the future land use plan. And, and they are planning as far as I know, even though the zoning stands alone to, to reuse the existing, the re-existing, the building. Do you have any specific questions for staff? Commissioner, so many questions. Can the applicant please tell us about the project and come up? What do you mind telling us your name? It's Don Sherrod with RM-2 Property Solutions. Thank you. Basically, I've been a property manager for about eight years and there's a lot of housing need that needs to be done. You're starting to see homeless people gathered throughout the city. And this is an opportunity that can help render some of these homeless people and individuals, not, we're not focused. Can you get a little closer to the mic? I'm sorry. Can you get a little closer to the mic? Okay. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. Thank you. Okay. Basically, we're, we're just trying to fill a need and my owner here has purchased the house a couple of years ago. And there's been situations there where he has not been able to, he lives out of state and he's had cancer. And we've had, he, when he purchased a place, there was a lady that had lived there and, and had some problems with the unit. That being said, he's hired me through COVID. We cannot evict a lady.  We've been there cleaning up the place, making the place better. It's still not there yet, but literally, it will be probably the best house on the neighborhood when we're finished. If you drive down the road now, there are a lot of houses that are dilapidated on that street. And I'm kind of surprised if they're with the association, why haven't they done their part in getting those other houses fixed? I don't know what their argument is at this point, but we've got electricians, plumbers, everybody go in and tell us that this house can handle up to possibly four families. There's a lot of space around the house to where from the road, you will only see parking on the left side and on the front of the house. So in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of vehicles that will be there. There'll be also parking on the backside where nobody else will be able to see all the vehicles. It's a 1.4 acre unit. Thank you. Any of you have any questions for the applicant? Is anybody living in this unit now? Not now, no sir. Well, I wouldn't say it's obsolete, but we've been literally revamping it for a single family at this point. But it's large enough to where you can split into a duplex or a triplex to allow more families to come. I manage right now about 120 houses. Every house I have is full. I get more calls needing more houses than you can shake a stick at. Literally, I'll tell you how bad it is. I had a house last year or before COVID that I'll use every means to advertise this house. Only in a three week timeframe, I only had three people show up to see this house in three weeks. The same house a few months ago, I advertised it with one website and literally 53 calls in three hours. That tells you how bad housing is and that we need more houses. But for them to be pointing fingers at this particular house, I find it amazing because even in the condition it's in, it's not a perfect condition. Even in condition it's in, it's probably better most houses in that neighborhood. There's probably one across the street that's, I would say I'd buy it if I had the money to buy it or if it was for sale. But other than that, every house on that street needs to be revamped.  Yeah, would you mind giving us your name too? Yeah, good afternoon. Part of this property is adjacent for a multi-family home and this property is 1.39 acres. So how come we cannot use as a multi-family? Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who would like to speak in for or against this application? Good afternoon. My name is Kaye Patterson and I'm president of the Woodinamere Springs Neighborhood Association. The house that is being discussed right now is part of Woodinamere Springs and that area was established back in, get my dates right. It was established in 1897 by Richland County Map by Mr. John Hargo Hyatt. It was known as a Hyatt area. In 19, well let me back up a little further. In 1898 Hyatt Park was built and 1899 Hyatt Park Elementary School was built. And if we come a little further in the history that was known as the Eau Claire area. Mr. Hyatt began in 1902 to build a community. And that community was to attract doctors, lawyers from the city of Columbia at that time out into what eventually came known as the town of Eau Claire. Just a little history in that area. The homes was nice. It sits between, well the community was a nice community right now sits between two higher learning education. We have the Columbia College to our right and it borders the Lutheran Seminary on North Main Street. As you know that the city of Columbia is beginning to revitalize that area. And as the applicant said, it's true we do have some houses that need to be looked at. The city of Columbia Code Inspector, if I work with them, oh let me back up too. I became president of the neighborhood last year. And I began to work with the code and enforcements to make the area more pleasing. As he said, the population demands as to population demand housing. That particular area, we have no qualms with it becoming a duplex house, but to make it a quad, which is what the applicant says. He wants to take it from a single family residential to a quad to put four buildings on that particular lot. We see that as a problem. I've talked with the neighbors. They've seen the sign. They've called me. And there is a majority of those that disapprove this. They said that it wouldn't be fair to have those many people in that particular area at only one entrance and an out. But also, I have a picture. Mr. Sheer down there. Yeah. It hasn't been forthright with the community at all. He's come in and he's talked about his house being the best house on the street, which I totally disagree with. I have pictures here where he came in. They started back in February doing a little yard debris. The yard debris began to mount more and more. I call the city code inspector. They come out and enforcements. They come out and they look. Then it turned into, I mean, it's just a huge pile. It's a mess. Most people, when they're doing renovation on their homes, they prevent, I mean, the dumpsters, those real big old dumpsters and stuff. But it's just blatantly just laying there right now. What he's done is he's had disregard for his neighbors. And I have pictures that just show just how they just come into the neighborhood and they want to attract people to live there. I'm going to have to have you wrap it up. I reached 10 minutes already. Oh my God. I'm so excited. So it's two minutes. That was a lot. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Please. Disapprove this request. Thank you. Are there any other members of the public who would like to speak? Please come up, ma'am. My name is Cheryl Mitchell and I live in the neighborhood. I am familiar with Mr. Ali and Don. I am. I do agree that there are some issues in the neighborhood. However, building what he's asking to build in the neighborhood, which is actually across from my home, is not reasonable. There is not enough room. There is not an ingress or an egress point from the opposite side of the street, meaning the opposite side of his property that would allow people to reach wherever he's trying to build something from Main Street. The only way into his property is on Windermere. That is it. Which is adjacent to the side of my home. We already deal with issues with other tenants. We have more tenants that are renting than actual homeowners. So that creates a big problem. If his goal is to help the homeless, then you help them one family at a time. But the home that he's describing is not better than all the other homes in the neighborhood. And I'm a little offended that Don even made that comment because he's seen my home. They're familiar with my husband. He's a contractor. Our roof is new. We have siding. We have a fence in the yard. There's nothing wrong with our home. So when you talk about improving the neighborhood, it doesn't just start with new homes or putting additional housing in the neighborhood. It comes to the people that you put into those homes. And if you can't attract people that respect the property and that want to be there and respect their neighbors, then it doesn't matter how many houses you make available. The neighborhood will never grow. You'll never have the tenants or the homeowners there that you want. It's not the issue of it being an apartment or a duplex. It's just that if you don't live in that neighborhood, it's not fair to make the assumption that you can just move homeless people into a neighborhood that you don't occupy, that you don't have to live in. Gunshots, drive-bys, holes in cars, they see the same thing that I do. I don't know how they could miss it. So for Don to say that they want to bring more people in, you have to consider who you're bringing into the area in addition to that. So if you're trying to bring homeless people... I have to ask you to wrap it up? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Well, I guess that's my two minutes. I do not think that this should be approved for various reasons. I wish I did have more time to share. Thank you. Are there any other members of the public who would like to speak? Thank you. My name is Wanda Smith. I've lived in the neighborhood for 34 years. We have seen changes for better and for worse. When we talked to the... Is it Ollie? He spoke to us at a meeting. He said that he only wanted to build a duplex. The application that he put in said it was for a car. He said there are... First he said four rooms. Then I questioned him again and he said it's only four bedrooms. So we kind of got the impression that he's not forthright with us and for them to say that our neighborhood needs repair. That's left on code enforcement. We do report to them. We go ourselves and repair the property. And I feel like, like I said, he has not been truthful to us about what he has to do with the property. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other members of the public who would like to comment on this application? Do any planning commissures have any questions of the applicant or staff? What size is the drawing? Square footage? Probably it's 2,000. Thank you. Just so I fully understand this, this is a... You're not building new buildings. You're going to go in and revamp what it is. Exactly. Right. We've only really gutted the place. We haven't really done anything to it because waiting on this to be presented to you guys, we will have to literally get, you know, new building permits to change it over as well. Right now we're setting it up as, you know, cleaning up the place and making it into a one unit right now. But we can easily, based on the contractor, he pretty much said, oh, we can add the kitchen here, here, here, and he's telling us all this stuff. Now we haven't approved any type of drawings at this point. We just started this process to see how far we could go with it. I guess I have a question. Is this purely, this is just a zoning change. Any future change of the structure for multiple structures would still have to have a site plan review? Well, not necessarily. No. I mean, only if it met the threshold for site plan review, which is more than 24 units. So. Okay. And then, and looking at this, it appears there's no other parcel on the street that is RM. There are several, I don't know if y'all could, if y'all have your map available. There are, there's a whole section of the neighborhoods that's RM2 also. The immediately adjacent parcel is not. It's the RSF, is it two RSF? Yeah. I'm sorry, within this block. Just, just so I'm looking at this correctly. Yeah. I mean, on Windermere, there are the zoning changes from RM2 to RSF, where the brown goes to yellow.  There's a cross street that sort of acts as a little bit of a dividing line. So this is one parcel in from where there is RM2 properties. And I mean, I apologize for not finding the, the case summary early, but I'll just, I'll just read the staff recommendations. Just so everybody has it. It does say the proposed rezoning request is for a slightly more intense designation, which is often not supported in single family residential neighborhoods. However, the much larger size and L shape of the parcel and its adjacency to a large area of RM2 along Hyatt and Windermere make it somewhat atypical of other adjacent parcels along the street. So it was one of those that, you know, go either way. That's why we're all here. Staff finds that the proposed zoning of RM2 is consistent with the future land use classification. And forgive me, but when you're coming down Windermere, it looks like there's a small street coming down to the backside of this parcel. Is that, am I seeing that correctly? But between the two RM2 lots, let's see what I'm like here. Here's you saying this is a street? I'm asking right there. I just can't tell what that is. We're going to try to pull it up. Yeah, sorry. But it looks like a little alley might be between those two properties. Just a moment. Come back. All right. So one last just clarification from me, from staff. So in RM, in order to have a site plan review in the RM zoning, there has to be 24 or more units. Anywhere in the city. That's just the threshold. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Correct. I mean all, yeah, thank you, Jonathan. I mean, all site plans go through staff review, but in order for it to come to the planning commission for that level of site plan review, I would have to meet that threshold. Okay. Correct. They would just have to meet the requirements of the unified development ordinance. Do any planning commissioners have any additional questions? I do. I'm still seeking clarity on the duplex building as it relates to four families in the current structure as to how that might be. Is there four entrances or is there one entrance for four families? Do you have any idea at this point, sir? Can the applicant come to the podium, please? We're trying to get four family for the unit. But typically a duplex would have a separate entrance. So is there a separate interest for each family unit? Yes, ma'am. There actually is, would be four entrances. I mean, we can go to three units. Bill. And has that already been designed or is that at this point just your plans based on what construction? It would be nothing to do three entrances. The fourth would be more money to do, but we can stop at three entrances. Three units. Okay. Does that make sense? I understand. Thank you. One x, one entrance, is correct? Correct. But the driveway is, it's like a horseshoe that goes around. This actually has two driveways, you know, I think for our purposes, that's all permitting. Yes. We're deciding as if we're going to change or make a motion to change the zoning that would allow it different use or higher increased density later. Right. The zoning is a recommendation to city council. And then once the zoning, then that's what applies to the property. So any kind of specific development decisions, you know, really, I mean, kind of irrelevant now because they'll just, you know, have to follow the code when it comes to that. But right now it's just about considering the rezoning. Are there any other questions of the applicant? Thank you. Thank you. Any comments? I will entertain a motion. I have a motion to approve ZMA 2023 and 44. I wonder what would be your avenue based on staff recommendations, I guess, based on staff recommendations. We have a motion. Can I get a second? I'll second. Can we get a vote? All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All those. No. No. No. No. I'm going to do a roll call. No. Mr. Cook. Yes. Ms. Davis. No. Mr. Harp. Yes. And Mr. Tupper. Yes. The motion passes. All right. This will bring us to the first item on the regular agenda. That's going to bring us to, that's going to bring us to S plan 2023 0005 at 3,800 Overbrook Drive, TMS number 13708 0501. And this request, this project was originally scheduled to be heard by the planning commission on March the 9th. But the applicant requested that the case be deferred in an effort to revise the site plan. And since then, the site plan has been revised to eliminate access to along Super Street. The project entails the demolition of a single family residence and the construction of 34 town homes with 1.8 acres at the point of Overbrook Drive and Super Street. The town homes will be configured in three units, four unit and five unit buildings. And each town home will contain two bedrooms and the required number of all street parking spaces is 68 where 68 are being provided. There are no additional parking spaces to accommodate visitors. The applicant is providing eight bicycle parking spaces and four storage units in accordance with section 17 dash 2.5 application specific with new procedures and decision standards for site plans of the unified development ordinance. A site plan shall be approved only upon finding the applicant demonstrates all of the following standards. The proposed uses are allowed in the zoning district in accordance with Article 4, use regulations. The development and uses in the site plan comply with Article 4, use regulations. The development proposed in the site plan and its general layout and design comply with all applicable standards of Article 5 development standards. The development proposed in the site plan and its general layout and design comply with all applicable standards of Article 6. And the development proposed in the site plan is consistent with all other applicable standards of of this ordinance and the city and code of ordinances should the commission be inclined to grant approval of this major site plan staff request staff request that the commission make the finding that all requirements of section 17 dash 2.5 listed above are met and conditioned upon the following staff comments Lucinda handed out to you just now a revised packet for this case and in that packet there is a site plan the site plan that was on the website showed access to showed a driveway to sewer street which has been eliminated in addition to that there is there was a floor plan that showed three bedroom units and you'll notice that this plan shows two bedroom units so the only the revisions are two bedroom units and they eliminated the driveway access to sewer street whereas there's only one access to the bone and the applicant is present it can go further into their case can ask you one quick question you said that we went from three unit three bedroom units to two bedroom units or the other way around okay thank you does anyone have any questions for staff do we know the square footage of these apartments it looks like 1,100 square feet thank you is the applicant here speak for the project good afternoon my name is Wyman Bowers I'm here on behalf of Lafay development appreciate Mr. Chambers and his staff working with us as always just a quick overview of this project we've been before you one other time on annexation matter and so this is actually coming in from Richland County to this to the city so that has been completed City Council has approved that just a few highlights if you want we have complied with the lame use ordinance and staff requests and requirements in addition we've met with the neighborhood Association and good to see y'all here on a number of occasions and have had numerous conversations with them we've sought to listen to hear their concerns and to make some modifications you just heard from Mr. Chambers that the most recent revision was a major one so we had two ingress egress points one on overbrook one on super street there's been a concern voiced by the neighborhood Association about the traffic particularly on super so we sought to work with them also with city staff because there are for instance 911 emergency access requirements those types of things that we desire to and of course want to meet but we were able to come up with with the solution that removed one of the ingress egress points that was that was on super and that's now been removed so the only only ingress egress is on overbrook just a couple of other things that we've done as we've listened to the neighborhood Association and sought to incorporate their desires into this plan we've included we've removed all the Herbie Kirby's 34 would be a lot so we've got a dumpster on the on the site now the open space requirement we have not only complied with it but we've allowed for 44% more open space than is required by the ordinance we've also include sidewalks there there aren't many sidewalks in Rosewood but we've sought to to include those here so that we the roads would will be a more walkable community it's a it's a great place to live and we just want to enhance that and then finally we're gonna make some improvements with the current stormwater going down overbrook as a result of this development and I'm sure there be questions after you hear from those neighborhood Association but any questions now that I can answer for the Commission just so the drawing we have just shows that the driveway that's on super is that just gonna be a continuation of green space with a dead end at the parking lot on overbrook I'm sorry yes no super that's incorrect so there should have been a revised so that that site plan is what we modified from from the March meeting to the April meeting but just for clarification there's only one entrance correct it's just on overbrook or the is the unit count the same correct okay yeah that's enough you have any questions for the applicant I'm planning Commission I just one general question with regard to the stormwater yes sir how are you I know you'll have to go through a civil site interview what are your thoughts there so we will bring it out to overbrook and then go down the down the hill and tie into the existing stormwater that's at the bottom of the hill so we'll we'll pipe it all the way down are you gonna detain on site yes okay yeah it's it's a very flat site but we do anticipate having to detain some I guess the units you did down the street you're on let's just say 0.2 acres you put five units there five pounds or is that equivalent to what you got over here up the street or you know I pushed it more of you left it less I just curious I have not done a math on that so I I wouldn't be able to answer that so I don't know we were planning on going on doing six there but do the setbacks it's a it's a it's triangle and do the setbacks we could we could only get get five so but I have not done the done the math on that so I couldn't answer so just from a you that's kind of what I was looking at comparison wise you know yes sir to speak more broadly to that question we we certainly comply with the zoning it's absolutely and and there's again there's there's 44% more open space than is required so we I'll just let that stand for itself how do you plan to meet emergency needs when you only have to one exit we've we've run that through 911 and the in the city and they said that we would begin compliance with the current plan as we've submitted so forgive me for not being a 911 expert but that's that's why we were we were allowed in the city I understand question just in general about the landscaping where with the city reviewing comments where does that review I didn't see that listed is that under would that be in the forestry section or that's under development service plan development service that's under planning development services comment so we've we've met with Scott Holder on this and they have already begun to kind of sketch out loosely what what he would like to see and meet some of those meet all those requirements actually so that is what I was checking because it's got it says these other sections it'll say recommend approval or with staff comments or conditions that's all I didn't know if there was anything tied to the landscape specifically or if that was involved in these yes I believe it falls those are those are under planning and development services so building building comments planning comments and everything that's encompassed under planning and development services are in there mr. Holder has been part of correct yes any other questions from any commissioners thank you thank you we'll hear public input if there's anyone from the public who would like to speak to this application please come up good evening my name is Whitney Denton I'm here not just on behalf of my own home but for the neighborhood as a whole I'm actually going to ask first and foremost why this isn't deferred this is the first moment we've seen the site plan with super entrance closed mr. Bowers emailed one to Michelle and I we asked for clarification if this was the correct design I believe almost the past week we've been asking for the correct design we are just seeing this official with super cut off today there are also several errors within the site plan packet that was linked off of the planning's agenda it specifically states 32 units instead of 34 the last design we saw were three bedrooms not to we met with mr. Bowers on site on February 20 then city council was the next day he assured us on that Monday they were going to be two bedrooms two parking spaces per unit which would give enough he said according to what he had been told that would be enough parking if you do look at where the concrete pad is in the parking lot how it juts out the spaces on either side of that pad they can't really be used because that concrete pad is going to jut out and block those two spaces so that's really down to 66 units I believe on his March the ninth planning packet he stated something about trying to help alleviate some housing issues within the city part of Columbia Compass rose with 25 year plan the five units on Montgomery four of the five are Airbnb's currently Airbnb's we have asked please do not build another design like this they stick out like a sore thumb please go look at Wiley Street which was built and it's within character please do not build something that's going to come in and stick out as the first thing you see this is not what our neighborhood looks like Mayor Rickerman even said there are so many designs that can be done that look like single family that will look like Columbia Compass rose with 25 year plan this design is not it thank you there any other people from the public who would like to speak my name is Robert Dudek I live at 3850 overbrook drive which is a half a block from this proposed project my wife and I have lived there since 1986 37 years now as I look at your staff comments and the things that were read out again when we before City Council the mayor I believe one other member of council I think it was Councilman Brandon asked that Mr. Bowers work compromise and that's not been done that simply had not been done gone from going in the other direction we've gone from 32 to 34 and I see on your plan here it talks about going to lesser units would make this much better but also my wife's gonna speak to you in a minute and she's done a lot of talking to the neighbors and one thing she's gonna tell you 11 of the 13 households 11 of 13 do not want this project or they certainly do not want it as it is drawn up now now here you have your staff comments and there are a couple things that really stick out one is this is not in the character of this neighborhood or this area we certainly have other multi-family housing down overbrook drive where where I live but this is on the very corner where you have South Kilburn neighborhood sign it Baptist Church across the street and he wants to put in 34 units now what your staff comments say is we allow for development and growth but not at the expense of losing the community's character and sense of place that's not a platitude that is what you put out here and this would definitely change the character destroy it and it also talked to your staff comments on maintaining the single family density throughout the neighborhood and keep strong sense of what is our community in this area so again this is going in the wrong direction it's across from a Baptist Church the neighbors that we've talked to this is a very opposed a very opposed project in our neighborhood I live on overbrook now I get what we need to set about deferring this because they've been taken totally by surprise on the super street being closed but let me point out is an overbrook only being half a block from this now you're talking about with only one entrance and exit totally changing our street in the amount of traffic in and out of there which is already now it would be horrible and I just respectfully asked it that you don't prove this certainly not in its present form thank you thank you is there anyone else my name is Valerie James and I'm not a very good speaker I retired from teaching after 41 years and I'm just used to talking to seventh graders so I'm gonna just this is my neighborhood that I grew up in I grew up down the street on Edmond and if you come into our neighborhood there's a veer next to the Baptist Church and the sign that says welcome to South Kilburn and there was a house sitting there actually to and that house has been there since I was six years old and when I moved to Columbia and I remember my mother driving from church and coming and it's a gateway into the deep part of that part of South Kilburn a lot of people take the Kilburn road go down to Kilburn school which I went to and a lot of people take that veer and my mom always took that veer well these units at this number I've already accepted the fact that there are going to be apartments there I was opposed to it totally because I didn't want that house torn down was built in the 1940s but this is too many units I counted the units on our street already there are five apartment complexes there are over 60 units that people can live in I can't tell you if they're two or one bedroom or whatever but there's 60 units on a street that literally looks like about two blocks maybe two and a half blocks that's a lot of people population density is very high on that street and it's a pretty nice neighborhood I know all the people that live in the houses I don't know all the apartment people but they're very friendly and we all get along but like he said a minute ago my husband there are 12 houses and a duplex with two families and all of us are against the 30 plus apartments we're all against it that's the only houses besides two other houses and one has a lady in it that I don't deal with because she's a bit touched and then the other houses of rental so you're talking about you know 12 houses one duplex with two families and two houses I don't know what those two houses account for because I haven't asked that lady and the other ones the people just moved out so I'm just letting you know that I know departments are probably going to come but I think that's way too many for our neighborhood and it's going to change the the look of the street and everything thank you thank you thank you thank you thank y'all for letting me speak I'm Michelle Huggins I'm the president of the South Kilburn neighborhood Association at this point I'm quite frustrated I'm requesting y'all to please defer y'all have not had time to actually look at what the correct drawings are when you go back and you look at what was presented what has been out there for the public to look at it does not correspond in quite a few ways there's things that y'all had the Planning Commission had said before that it needed to be in line with there those things were not acknowledged they were not even dealt with 32 units but if it had been in the county it would have been 24 we pushed we wanted it to be annexed into the city because of safety having the police on time and everything else whereas county we know automatically that's a 30 minute wait minimum the tree canopy on this property there are some very aged trees they're going to disappear but when you look at it it kind of looks like they're going to be going through the apartments or whatever they're not they're going to be gone the sidewalk that he mentioned is going to be a sidewalk to nowhere so if it's going nowhere what about the rest of that block because that's a pretty long block on super street that goes from the beginning of super and over overbrook all the way down to super and Montgomery also when we look at the apartments that are on super street Montgomery and slash south Kilburn his previous bill that he inherited I believe is that correct you inherited that project because you were not there in 2008 when it was approved is that correct so he inherited it originally was presented as it was going to have an opening off of south Kilburn exiting on to super street DOT said no that could not happen they allowed one opening and that is on Montgomery the parking again you will lose a parking can park and I can take you to other apartment complexes and show you that exact same thing where people cannot park there at this point we are asking y'all to please review if y'all want me to honey I'll go get us a big old van I'll come by and pick up every single one of you and I'll show you overbrook I'll show you south Kilburn I would love for you to see there is only two really main areas that's overbrook and that is dear wood that has apartments you go anywhere else over in south Kilburn you are finding homes I will take that back we do have on south Kilburn right after the mini mark there is some apartments there you'll find some others a little bit spaced out but there are single family homes they are not going to be like this this will totally change this this is a very big focal area and we really would like you to please come out and actually look at it so you can assess it seeing it in person I will be glad to come and pick y'all up and take your ringer thank you thank you is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak with respect to this application any commissioners are any any additional questions just what I'm this is the right this is what I'm looking at it's correct or no does it have one it has one access off of over that is correct okay if I may just address a few things that were that were mentioned we've I've met with the neighborhood association now for over six months the plan has changed absolutely we we sought to change the plan as we listened to some of their concerns so the the traffic concern we sought to alleviate that by removing the ingress egress off of super and now there's there's concern about the traffic on overbrook well you got to get into that site somehow so where we have sought to make changes we've just been met continuously with that's not good enough that's not good enough that's not good enough I understand the concerns I understand the passion I don't doubt it they love their community which is wonderful we wouldn't seek to be doing this project if it wasn't a good community that's that's why that's why we want to to be there we just have a difference of opinion on perhaps the the the way which it moves forward with regard to the number of units it's zoned RM to we're not seeking to rezone it additionally as as was mentioned there are not just one or two there are a number of other condos apartments townhomes within a thousand yards of this proposed development if you would allow me Concord Oaks overbrook Court governor's place the crest a Zegaprace adding to now within a thousand yards so to say that this doesn't come to say that this doesn't conform to the character of the neighborhood those are already there and existing on the same street so just wanted to bring that to your attention I'll answer any questions the application says 32 that is incorrect it's 34 it is 34 right here just to clarify to these are townhomes not apartments correct all individually for sale correct okay do you know ma'am do you have any concerns about losing parking spaces if you're selling them you're gonna have to have two spots per unit right so you have no concerns about losing those spots no sir that's that's why we're allowing our engineer he does this for a living so he's pretty good with numbers so I do have a question when we're looking at I guess density I think like technically speaking this is very well laid out very efficient haven't gone by there I mean I've seen the neighboring apartment units seen the houses I think once I realized where some of the trees were I was thinking maybe it would have been nice to see a little more sensitivity to preserving some of those just just so that this project maybe is more of a positive add to the fabric rather than using the fabric as an amenity I guess that's just my thoughts trying to kind of get my head around that but any of the commissioners have any yes sir the vast majority of those trees are pines and they're mature pines which are beautiful but their life expectancy is not great most of them probably have a average diameter of 24 to 30 inches which means it's probably a 50 year old pine and those pines will likely die in the next probably 15 to 20 years but we intend to get a arborist out to to look at look at the trees and to work with mr. Holder on that any commissioners have any other questions so for the landscaping it looks like there's requirements within the buffer that may not be shown on the map or is that is that part of yes they'll the site plan they'll be buffer requirements both I'm gonna say going from north to south along if you're starting on over going south and then if you make the corner of the property coming back towards super those will both those sides I guess the south side and the east side will be buffered trees but not yes one inch trees or whatever mr. Holder requires have y'all discussed where the tension will be located on here yes or it'll most likely be on the southern end that's that's why you see the significantly larger buffer there have y'all ran calculations and everything I'm assuming you're civil guys and know what you need and that is sufficient enough space with buffer and everything correct yes and that y'all have that cleaned up well that's that's one of the reasons why we're we we're gonna have to take it off and down overbook is because we we wouldn't be able to detain all of it on site just sheet it no it'll be it'll be piped okay yeah because we've got to get it out to overbook and then down the street got it you know many units are next door they're condos next door if my memory serves me I don't know off the top of my head but there are is it is it 30 okay so it is it's 30 right next door and those have been there for a number of years 20 plus maybe 30 plus what is the city of Columbia housing next door yeah it's just a that's what that a halfway house no it's not I think it's it's forget the term but it's affordable housing for those who would apply through the city so I think it's Columbia housing authority I think it's who owns that are these separated for fire code purposes or it's for the limit I think you can have seven I think you can have seven attached and then there's got to be a separation or it moves into a true apartment so we we saw it to be well within the limits of that really just from an anesthetic perspective if you get too many just it just doesn't look any other comments I guess I think just for me personally I'm one vote up here it seems like to me the density is just a little too high I think in a way where it didn't feel so parking lot in houses but in general I like the concept I guess I'm you know and I guess to some degree we're always going to be at a battle with increasing density in areas where it's allowed but how do we do it in a way that works from different angles yes I'm sensitive to that so I'm a fence I'm not a little bad as well considering what I've seen you've done and what you've got up top from the South Street can you all speak into the microphone yeah I'm my I'm my concern is with the chairman as well question for staff in the recommendations it says very tight if it was reduced by a few units be arranged more buildings face to the street etc. I mean those options given and you know is that something that the if that's the recommendation how is that something we can follow sorry so you were asking about the comments regarding the the if I'm reading that correctly layout density technically allowed is very tight for the site the plan were reduced by only a few units could be arranged for more buildings to face the street etc. I mean that's the staff recommendation how could we follow that recommendation in this circumstance I mean I guess how could the planning commission or how could the I mean we defer voting to approve this up or down we're not doing to approve it with a I mean I believe a new plan would have to be submitted for approval in order to approve them then with fewer units yeah understood in order to prove lesser units would I just didn't hear the last part she said yeah I believe what she's saying is that if you reduce the if you reduce the amount of units and then the plan could be reconfigured and so we want to look at that plan to make sure from a staff standpoint that all the requirements of the coder got it but as far as we're concerned here today we're voting up or down on the project as presented one question like that I'm not pushing for this but just to clarify this project went to 24 units it doesn't come before us at all that's correct that's what I guess that's correct so I think what's really on it on the table here's the density between 24 and 32 or 10 units in the layout if I may just ask a question to the to the commissioner so understand that density is is a concern so if the zoned RM to the density allows for it help me understand the concern other than just a desire I think you just jam everything you possibly can on there and yeah it's allowed for that but I think that what you're doing is you're seeing what you're allowed and you're just jamming everything you possibly can and taking it right to the line and that bothers me personally that's so that's my two cents so if the if the zoning is RM to then wouldn't that cover what's allowed and what's not allowed and truly I'm just seeking to understand if that's the zoning then as long as we're compliant with the zoning that's what the zoning is there for is to to provide guidance and governance on if it's a RSF 3 or if it's a industrial site if I could clarify just for the Commission I mean part of the planning Commission's role is also to look at city plans have been adopted and ensure that as we are enforcing our ordinance that those plans are also compliant with adopted plans so that's part of the reason we provide these comments that are you know directly from the Rose of plan and things like that is just to make sure that those things are also considered because every site is different and so a maximum allowable may or may not always represent the principles of an adopted plan so that it's all it's about the Commission balancing all of those things if everything were just black and white for the ordinance we probably wouldn't have a Commission approval requirement and so that's part of what the planning Commission has to do is weigh all of those things and that is a legal requirement of the planning Commission to do that as an appointed board and I would I would say you know technically this means the rules I think what we're tasked with the same inclusive of that fact does it fit within the context of what the neighborhood in the master plan was so that just because it checks the boxes over here does that mean it gets to happen and be a positive or negative understand thank you for that sure like I said I think just looking at it it looks it's well laid out well thought out when I have been out there to look at the site and try to get my head around the way it feels I think it feels too much you know the buildings that are next door are all larger buildings with the units more consolidated or these are all spread out so the overall footprint of the development you see that's not landscaped or not shielded it's just larger okay I think from a density standpoint I mean you you can put the density here at least without our input if you're under 23 or 24 I think we'd like to try to figure out maybe and I don't know if I speak for the group just speaking for me maybe if there's just more sensitivity to blending in here certainly we could we could work on that yes okay you know I do I do want to help you move forward I just don't want to also do it in a way that's counterproductive but we don't have a plan that's different to approve yes so you know we're either tasked with approving this one not approving this one or deferring this one you know and we can put them once we get through questions we can see where we fall you have any other questions I mean I'm I know it's impossible to make everybody happy yeah we're not after that but in terms of doing us right so anyone has any other comments I guess my struggle that I've been seeing you contemplating has to do with does the structure and the building of what you're trying to construct complements the area that's currently there and I'm still struggling with that piece yes ma'am if if you would ride down over book this development will be significantly nicer than those that are currently there and those that are currently there that the vast majority face inward what we've sought to do is actually to face them upward that's why we have some of the design and structure with with the parking interior and not it not exterior the parking is a little bit all over the place in in those other developments so from up from a resident perspective we we believe that they would prefer to look out on to the major streets not into a parking lot and so we could we could certainly reconfigure and redesign for them to be more maybe contiguous and less spread out but but at the same point in time from a resident's perspective that that sense of space is often attractive and it feels more like a townhome and less like an apartment so just things that we're trying to balance and you guys you've got a great corner yes I think there's with a little work a way to satisfy some concerns and also maybe do it in a way that's really taking advantage of that opportunity there okay I know you guys do great work just well thank you thank you so from what I'm here from the Commission is if you give us some time to go maybe work on some things and with what working with staff maybe bring back another proposal that that may be more amenable given given what I've heard today I think if we had a motion to defer Mr. Chair I move that site plan two two three dash zero zero five thirty eight hundred open book drive TS number one three seven eight oh five oh one be deferred I have a motion may I get a second a second all those in favor I well it's posed get a roll call yes miss Davis yes mr. Cook yes mr. Tupper mr. Hart good okay the motion passes thank you I think that does that bring us through the yeah that's it the only thing I want to mention in other business is that the training that and you I know you guys have probably heard from sky and think about training opportunities but they're gonna be back in person to just be prepared for that we'll set those up in our offices but it's how we've done it throughout history until the pandemic so it may be slightly less convenient but just bear with us and we'll be getting you information about those opportunities throughout the year so that's all I had thank you thank everyone for bearing with us today too but there's no other business to have a motion to adjourn Mr. Chair make a motion to adjourn a second second favor


I grew up in a small city in Czechoslovakia, under communism, but in 90s my whole world opened up and I started my career as an epidemiologist and later on I became the head of the National Monitoring Centre for Drugs in the Czech Republic. And since then, EMCDA and its RETOX network have played an important role in my professional story. I appreciate how the EMCDA has deepened our understanding of the drug phenomenon in all its dimensions. Apart from informing drug policy, EMCDA has a strong, peer-driven impact on the scientific and public health community dealing with drug issues across Europe. EMCDA has helped me also to think globally and in a broader context when dealing with our local problems here. And what I enjoy most is networking, networking with experts from different cultures and different disciplines and learning from our diverse knowledge but common challenges.


What is going on guys welcome back to the channel critical overload here so I'm talking about jeepers creepers for again here today Jeepers creepers were born so I do just want to start off by saying this might be a Potential spoiler in terms of whether or not you will find out what the creeper is or is not in jeepers creepers 4 So if you do not want to know if you will or will not get that answer then you probably shouldn't watch this video, but According to someone who worked on the film and has seen it multiple times because of that you should not expect Jeepers creepers 4 to go into any type of background on what this monster is because apparently What that will be doing is breaching whatever contract that victor has in place between Victor of course who owns the rights and the people who have the rights temporarily right now for however long-screen media wants to keep making these movies without having to directly have a Say so from Victor or have any involvement from him So that is of course the only capacity that we know of at this point of how Victor would be benefiting from this legally You cannot make this without going to the right holder despite what he has done Legally you can't just start breaking the laws all around like that You can't you can't do it because then you would face legal trouble as well It's not it's not necessary not worth it You probably shouldn't even bother making the movie if you're gonna do it illegally so you know at this stage That's the that's as far as I know is how victor is making any money He apparently has leased the rights to screen media who have a contract in place to use this IP for For a certain amount of time and can make as many movies as they want to I guess and then the rights overall We'll just transfer right back to him and of course He's getting paid for the fact that he's letting them rent his rent the rights to his property That's the only capacity. I guess he's getting paid for just from that alone for however long that contract is in place He won't be getting any profit directly from the actual movies that they make but apparently that's what's in place Supposedly and according to someone who worked on the film You should not expect jeepers creepers forward to go into the origins of the creeper because it would be a breach of this Contractual agreement Victor has in place with screen media while they keep making these movies So for anyone who was worried about not having a satisfying Mythology background or anything like that of the sort probably shouldn't have to worry about that according to this person Because it would be going out of the contract. It would be breaching the contract probably would have some problems with Victor and then you know It will go south from there So as far as like knowing what the creeper is we can continue to speculate I think I like that aspect a lot more than just finding out what it is straightforward Like I said before I have some videos up Why I didn't mention that there's symbols in the background in the new layer that kind of seemed like they would be ways for you to Look up these symbols and kind of decipher that means anything kind of put together your own Individual story of what you think the creeper is is he actually this thing? That's a symbol in his layer. Is he tied to this stuff? It's just symbols that were in his layer in these new set photos or in some set photos That we're talking about like old ancient gods or some type of stuff I don't really remember it too fully because I don't have it up in front of me at this moment But they're not gonna give you a straightforward answer I know in the cathedral script they tell us that he is some like Phoenix demon or something like that in the actual third Film that we got he has this hand that if you touch it you see what it is And we don't get to be told what it is because at that stage. I'm just convinced, you know, you're We're not finding out what it is because at that stage, you don't even know what it is yourself So it's like don't don't do stuff like that have people see what it is and then your audience is in the dark About it. Just certain certain things when you have the characters no more than the audience It's sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and jeepers creepers three the way that was done That's a poor way to do it. They see what it is Don't say anything to you They just say it's ancient. Okay. We already knew that what's the point of this hand being here? And having having them see the origins, but your audience does it and then of course in ways It makes that movie a little bit more infuriating because you're not gonna have anything cleared up in jeepers creepers four Supposedly about what was going on with that hand most if anything you could say that they're ignoring a lot of stuff from jeepers creepers three It exists, but they're doing their own thing. They're acknowledging what's came before But they're not going to directly make any references to jeepers creepers three That's just what everything seems to be lining up with they know it exists. They're not saying it's not Being they're not saying it's not going to be irrelevant But it's the fact of most of what they'll be addressing seems like it will be heavily influenced from jeepers creepers one and two As it should be in my honest opinion because those are the strongest out of this series that we have so far But any any of you on the other side who desperately wanted to know what the creeper is I mean, I guess you will be disappointed to know that you should expect to not have that answer Now again, this is again coming from someone who has seen the film multiple times because they worked on it But of course this could be just a way to hide the secret I guess the other thing I think I should add on to that is that maybe They aren't cuz like you guys me included we could all still watch this and come up with our own interpretation of what it is But according to them, there is no direct answer as to what it is But that doesn't mean there isn't gonna be breadcrumbs left throughout there that would leave you to then kind of have Your own interpretation of what it could be. I don't know what I don't know what all the details were about that contract Victor has in place of course or anything like that, but If we're not gonna get a direct answer, that's fine, but it doesn't mean we can't still have something teased along the way So I think that there's a chance we could have some stuff teased like I said before There's symbols in the background in this new layer So who knows what's going on with those symbols and how they factor into the narrative if at all because again Those symbols seem to have some type of wreck some type of connection to old ancient gods and stuff like that So we'll see what happens with Jewish creepers for but don't expect to get any origin background Don't expect to get any revelation by the being a phoenix demon or some old Demon that po-hole Indians worshipped or something like that like how I know it was it's sort of like in the Cathedral script The comic books give you some type of Aztec background. Don't expect anything like that I don't know why Victor doesn't want it to happen other than of course I don't think Victor ever had an idea of what this thing was I think it's better that way anyway the fact that you don't know what it is because then if you don't know what it is That's probably probably a safe thing to say that you don't want to put out anything that completely tarnishes What this what this monsters Type of vibe is or the vibe he gives us because if you get a poor background story Of course that that could or could or not make it a little bit less menacing So who knows we'll see what they do with jeepers creepers for but apparently you're not gonna get an outward answer as to What the creeper is and not anything specific saying, you know, this is what it is it isn't this it's 100% This don't expect that at all again according to this person who has worked on the film and saw it multiple times The reason I'm not naming any names because I don't want to get them in trouble But let me know what you guys think about all this down in the comments section below if you haven't already course make sure you subscribe turn on Post notifications that you never miss a video in description links to my social media accounts on Facebook Twitter and Instagram You can message me there of course to limiters any movies news or views like me to cover in the future with all that in my guys I will see you in the next video