All right, that's a good slide to start with. So disruption is not so great. Disruption word comes from Latin disruptus. Break apart, split, shatter, break two pieces. And we generally want to avoid disruption of things we care about, specifically our workloads. Kubernetes as a container orchestration system lays a solid foundation when it comes down to operating highly available workloads. However, Kubernetes is not without the problems when dealing with the workload disruption. Hello, my name is Ilya Chekrigin. Today I would like to take a moment to talk to you about disruption in Kubernetes. And I'm a Kubernetes enthusiast. We're going to review type of workload disruption as well as protection mechanism offered by Kubernetes when dealing with disruption. We will look at the protection mechanism of pod budget disruption policies, or PDBs for short. And we'll see where they work, where they fall short. And finally, we will do a quick introduction and demo of possible alternative solution and discuss the challenges along the way. Kubernetes classifies disruption in two broad categories. In voluntary unavoidable cases where pod can disappear due to various reasons. Hardware failures backing up the node, let's say we run in kubelet. VM failures or VM disappearances, let's say cluster administrator can delete VMs or VMs could disappear due to cloud provider or hypervisor failures, kernel panic, network partition. All this could lead to a workload disruption. Kubernetes, at a couple of its own reasons, kubelet can remove iPods in response to resource pressures on the node. And taint manager can remove workloads, iPods in response to no execute taint. Volunteer disruptions, all other cases. And again, can be subdivided in categories some. First category, those ones which initiated or consented by the workload owners. So we as a workload owner can delete iPods manually through QTL. We can delete the deployments or controllers which are responsible for iPods, as well as we can update deployments, which will cause rolling update, and all parts will be removed. And finally, we can use different kinds of automation, like horizontal part of the scaler where essentially can result in pod removal due to scale down events. Another category is caused by cluster administrator or infrastructure owners, where cluster administrator can scale, disrupt workloads by draining nodes in order to perform repair or maintenance or upgrades on the nodes. Nodes can also be drained from the cluster when we use in response to scale down event when we use a cluster to scale here. And finally, there is a scheduler. Scheduler also can invoke preemption path, disrupting workloads when it's seeking for room to run paths with in high priority class band. Kubernetes offer protection mechanism in pod disruption budget policy. It's a full mouth. And PDB for short, so I'll be using PDB from now on. And yeah, I'd like to think about PDB policies as a contract between cluster administrator and workload owners. Whereas a workload owners would like to workloads being uninterruptible and be highly available, yet at the same time cluster administrator needs to perform maintenance on the nodes, and essentially which will require disruption in a sense. But PDB or disruption policy could be viewed as a contract where essentially we can agree on how much of workload disruption can tolerate. And policies protect us against only certain type of disruption, volunteer disruption specifically, and only those in blue boxes there. So let's kind of quickly review the policy anatomy. The PDB spec consists of two sections, availability requirements and pod selector. The availability requirements expressed in mean available, max unavailable, essentially mutual exclusive fields, which we can define in absolute terms or relative values as percentages. The label selector is responsible for matching policy to our workload pods. As Kubernetes 1.26, there is a new field, experimental field, called deal with the unhealthy pod disruption. And I think it's 127, it's being promoted to beta. The status of policy reflects current state of policy in terms of disruption availability. In fact, disruption allowed is the only field which is used by either eviction API or scheduler when considering pod removal. However, PDB status also have other fields. And which are very helpful, and I give shout out to engineers who design status for policies because essentially those fields help us understand why certain disruption values being computed. And also in my proof of concept, I'm heavily leveraging those fields. Support for PDB and Kubernetes is complicated. If we think about PDB as a person who's thrown party and Kubernetes as the invitees, who would show up? Kubelet and TaintManager are those cool kids. They ignore PDBs as if they don't exist. In fact, term eviction in this context in orange boxes is misnomer because neither Kubelet nor TaintManager use eviction API. They simply delete pods. And from Kubernetes perspective, when we either invoke those Kubelet or TaintManager evictions, as far as Kubernetes can turn, disruption is already in progress. So there's nothing could be done to save the situation effectively in respect of pod state. Pods could be still running. Scheduler, similar to Kubelet and TaintManager, also doesn't use eviction API and does the pod deletion. However, Scheduler consults PDBs before removing pods. And finally, eviction API, I probably should start with it. It's a full-time beneficiary of PDBs. And essentially it will reject pod removal if policies or once policies been enriched. In fact, if the disruption allowed drops below zero, it will return error 429 and prompting caller to attempt to evict pods later. Fun fact that we cannot use eviction or evict pods manually through QPCL command. But we still can use eviction API through directly calling Kubernetes API. And I will show examples in my demo. So what's my verdict on PDBs? The good thing about PDBs, they are simple constructs, which fairly intuitive and easy to add support for disruption or against disruption for majority of our workloads. They're not so good thing. PDBs are maybe too simple if not to say rudimentary. They don't have a selector, which can select pods across multiple namespaces, for example. It's not universal supported. Kubelet and TaintManager ignore it. And maybe a quick example again. Imagine the use case when Kubelet died on the node. And that node will be marked as not ready. And NoExecuteTaint will be assessed to that node applied. So TaintManager will wake up and say, OK, I need to delete all the pods which do not tolerate NoExecuteTaint or has expired toleration. And one of those pods could be my pod for my workload. And I have disruption policy protection. However, that policy is in breach. So what I would really would like to happen is that TaintManager would wait for until some other pods in my workload come in some other nodes and then delete my pod. But that won't be the case today. TaintManager will simply remove my pods and potentially cause an outage. And I want to give a quick shout out to my colleagues, Andre Tassada, Deep Debroy, and Ian Chen, who are currently working on CAP, driving the improving and argumentant TaintManager functionality. PDBs themselves are not extensible. There is no mechanism to include additional factors when computing disruption availability, whether internal or external factors. And PDB do not support pods with complex identity. As far as the PDB concern, all pods which match selector run identical workloads with identical configurations, which may not always be desired case. Very not so good items. Aero 500 happens when we apply or create multiple policies for a given pod in other overlapping policies. And it's not a real problem to prevent policy creation in such a way because pods and policy can be created in different times. That's the kind of artifact of eventually consistent system. And it's also pretty challenging to add support for multiple policies per pod in eviction API. At the same time, I think maybe Aero 500 a bit not the best choice, because essentially there is no error in the survey just roughly invalid configuration or yes, invalid relation between PDBs and policies. And also there is, again, extensibility issue. But this time I'm not talking about PDBs, but I'm talking about general lack of extensibility in Kubernetes for built-in types. All right, so what are those pods with complex identity I was mentioning earlier? So let's imagine the use case of distribute no SQL database, let's say Cassandra. And let's say we deploy it in Kubernetes. And typically that deployment will consist of a set of pods or maybe stable sets, where each pod represents database chart. And each chart is consist of replicas. So essentially pods themselves are not exactly identical. So if we disrupt pod, let's say one, we want to maybe disqualify from disruption pod five and two. How can we protect ourselves with the policies today, disruption policy? We kind of can attempt to model policy around replication rings. But by doing so, we quickly end up with overlapping palaces, where we see like we have multiple pods will be covered by multiple policies. And that would lead to error 500. Another option, we can scale charts themselves and kind of apply policy to the chart. However, that will increase the deployment by a factor of x. And this is an example where PDBs may be not the best choice, or they don't offer the protection. So how can we solve this case? One possible way is to introduce a new type, distributed PDB, a particular type of policy which uses existing type of PDB policy, yet adds and wraps it with understanding of policy federation. And I'm hesitant to use federation term here, because I don't want to get confused with Kubernetes federation. The more appropriate analogy in this context would be Prometheus federation, where one instance of Prometheus database can see data from another Prometheus. Similar here, they distribute PDB, essentially that. One instance of policy can see and utilize statuses of other policies when computing disruptions are allowed for itself. The distributed policy controller capable of processing both regular policies and distributed policies. And for distributed version, it will create child policy, which is, in turn, regular policy. And for regular policy, it would act as a drop-in replacement for built-in controller. Federation could be in one direction where we can federate with any PDB, or it could be bi-directional when those PDBs were federated with, in turn, being children of distributed policies as well. So let's take a look, again, at an example of NoSQL database and apply distributed policies to it. This time, we'll create policy for one and only one pod. However, the policies themselves will be federated with the policies which match neighboring pods or pods from the same replica ring. Thus, if a given pod gets disrupted, only policies which are kind of from the same ring will be impacted. So in this case, if we lose P1 pod, whether it's not ready or just being deleted, only policies P2 and P5 should be impacted and P4 and P3 should be intact. On the left-hand side, you see an example of YAML, where we have exactly the same spec for policy in terms of allowed disruptions and pod selector, however, we have additional section federation, where we can now name a federated policies by name, namespace, and cluster name. So what it allows us now to create federation which can transcend the namespace boundaries. Moreover, since we can include cluster name and we can configure or distribute PDB controller to support multiple clusters, we can transcend the cluster boundaries as well. And with that, we're going to jump to the demo section. So let's see. Now, a tricky part is to pick the right font size. Obviously, that's probably too small. Let's bump it up a little bit. Let me see. Anabek, can you see it a little bit more? Yes, no? All right, I see thumbs up with my bet eyes. OK, so for all my demos, I'm using kind clusters around my laptop. And this is an example of single node kind cluster with the distribute controller already deployed in it, distribute policy controller. And first case, I will demo an example of creating deployments into different namespaces in the same cluster and attempting to solve the disruption requirements by a disruption policy. So here we have two namespaces. Both have three pods each. And my requirement is such that I would like to have minimum three pods running. It doesn't matter which namespace. It could be one or another, three and zero, or two and one, or any combinations. So let's see how I attempt to solve it with the PDB. When I create policy with minimum three available, you will see that I have allowed disruptions at zero level. So that policy now effectively is in breach. My workload is uninterruptible because policy is coped to the namespace. Since policy at the namespace looking at the pods, it only sees three pods. So let's take a look at the YAML file. So yes, currently healthy three, desired healthy three, nothing could be disrupted. This workload is uninterruptible, and cluster administrators won't be happy about that. And as I mentioned earlier, since we cannot use QTCL, this is the example of submitting requests for eviction directly to API. In this site, I'm running the Q proxy. And I'm curling, sending to this namespace pod combination and using eviction sub resource and providing JSON payload. So if I fire this up, I get 429, which is exactly because there are zero allowed disruptions. And I can repeat the same command against another namespace. And I should get, hopefully, exactly the same response. Yes. So yes, this is the uninterruptible workload. So let's replace the policy from one namespace with the distributed version. And let's maybe bump up a little bit here. OK, cool. So now you can see we have a distributed budget disruption policy and child object PDB. Now this time you will see that it has actually three allowed disruptions because it understands the policy from the next namespace. And let's take a look. Oh, first of all, if we attempt to disrupt, we can. We get 200. And you can see that pod was disrupted. Right here, a new pod being created. And let's take a look at the YAML. Now let me bump it up. There we go. So in the spec section, we see exactly the same requirements as for regular PDB, but now you will see federation section where we have name and namespace indication. The status of distributed PDB contain both child status and all federated items statuses, as well as total computed values. And if we look on the YAML file of child PDB policy, it's exactly the same built-in policy. The only difference is that we now have on reference indicating that this policy being owned by distributed version. Cool. So let's scale the deployment in the other namespace to zero, just emulating disruption. So we have no pods. And as you can see now, available allowed disruptions drop down to zero. And if we look at the PDB policy from other namespace, you can see currently healthy is zero. That's essentially what happens here. We're federated with the status. We're not looking for the pods. And by looking at observing changes to the federated status, we update the allowed disruptions in our namespace. So if we attempt to evict pods in our namespace, we get 429 as we want to. Now as we bring pods back from another namespace, kind of when, let's say, maintenance completed and recovery happening, now we can back, able to evict pods in our namespace. Moreover, as we restore all the pods, we should see allowed disruption going back up to three. Now if we attempt to evict pods from another namespace, we still can because it's being governed by built-in policy. So let's go ahead and replace the policy with the distributed version. This basically creates the bidirectional federation. And now this time we can disrupt either pods in either namespaces without a problem because as long as total number of pods is three and above. And let's scale now them both to two and see what happens if we try to simultaneously evict pods from both namespaces. So now only one eviction should succeed and second fail because, again, once first succeeds, we're going to be in breach of the policy. And here we go. So first call succeeded and the second one have failed. And that's the example of just a nutshell demo in the basic federated policies. In my example, I used a symmetrical deployment for both deployments identical and both use identical policies. However, symmetry is not required. We can have total different deployment sizes and shapes as well as different policy requirements. In next demo, we're going to go back to an example of NoSQL database. And we're going to deploy it into the same kind cluster, single loan cluster. And we'll emulate it by just regular pods so it's easy to disrupt and see impact of it. And this first step, I'm going to emphasize the importance of policies because if we don't use any policies protection against disruption and cluster administrative performance maintenance on a node, they can start evicting or draining nodes without any hesitations. And that will result in we're losing pods and then they can continue performance maintenance and more pods getting disrupted. And at this point in production, we are in outage. And people get paged because my database now compromised. Most likely there are failures and people are not happy. So let's quickly restore the pods before anyone gets paged. And let's see how we can try to solve it with the built-in policy. The use case I kind of showed in the slide before. And if I create policies per replicating, now let's take a look at the policy example, how it looks like. So this is an example of the policy which selects multiple pods. And we can use that label selected to verify that selector works. It should select all the pods. Let's see. Hopefully it does. Yes. And we can look at neighboring policy, let's see. But what you can see from the screen if I resize it, that same pods appear in two different policies. And if you paid attention in the slide deck, you know what happens when I'm trying to evict pods here. We're going to get error 500. And that's probably the worst case scenario because now my workload are interruptible. Clustered administrators are super not happy about it. And we're getting back 500 because now draining of those nodes will get stuck in limbo. So let's go ahead and, oh, yes. And if we try to replace any node or delete any pod, we get the same 500 because all of the pods now have five matching policies. So let's go ahead and replace regular policy with distributed version. And that's where the display becomes challenging because we have so little real estate here. OK, so hopefully you can see on the screen that we have seven distributed disruption policies which resulted in seven regular policies. Now that's the integrated option. And let's see what we're going to do next. Let's go ahead and delete one pod. We delete a replica form. Notice how when we remove replica form, all of a sudden the PDBs which match in pods around the same replica ring got adjusted status to disruption allowed to zero. Now if we attempt to evict any pod from the same ring, let's say replica three, we're going to get 429 back. So that's exactly what we want because now we actually using PDB policies yet we don't create multiple policies for a given pod. And we're able to apply protection of PDBs for complex identity pods deployment. And we still can evict remaining replica, let's say, was one, which didn't have a violation. But at this point now, across the board we have zero allowed disruptions. And that's the minimum opportunity we can perform on database because any more pods disrupted will lead to outage. So yeah, any pods get returned to 429. Resetting pods should restore the allowed disruptions. And that's pretty much for this section of the demo. And last quick demo I'm going to show is taking this use case of NoSQL Database and deploying it across multiple clusters. So let's see. Let's clean up. All right, for this demo I also using current clusters, except this time I'm using three different clusters. And now we're going to switch context between them three. So I have a single-on cluster. They are identical deployments as before. The only caveat now I'm using additional configuration to support multi-cluster mode. And what that means I have to create separate service account and service and RBAC to extract tokens to allow controllers to talk to other clusters. So this is an example of RBAC where I'm only allowed to watch by disruption budget policies. I don't care about pods, as I mentioned before, because we don't count pods or watch pods in the federation context. And we're going to create separate secret with KubeConfig file generated for all three clusters. And let's take a look at the super secret config. So here we go. So here's our secret file where we have three contexts for each cluster, blue, green, and red with the tokens. That config will be important when we look at the federation section. So this time we're going to create separate panels here. And on the left-hand side we're going to watch deployments. And on the right-hand side we're going to watch the policies. And again, I probably need to play with the adjusting sizes so we can see better. Hopefully you can see on the big screen. Here's on the left-hand side we have three pods. So it's nine chart deployment of NoSQL database. And it's kind of striped across three clusters. So we have 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, and so forth, you can see. And we have matching policies on the right-hand side. Those are already distributed policies. And that's kind of our database deployment. So let's go ahead and take a look at the policy real quick just to see how federation looks like. Now you can see in the federation section here we have both cluster name, which matches the acute config, namespace, and name-federated policies. So let's go ahead and evict the pod. So I'm going to evict pod from the blue cluster so we can see kind of a symmetry here. Changes on both red and green cluster. So as we successfully evicted pod 40, you see the policy adjusted here respectively because, again, we just lost this pod. But also notice how policy changed in neighboring clusters. So now if we attempt to evict pods from the, let's say, red cluster, which is from the same replica ring, we should get 429. And we do so if we do from the green cluster. Again, we get 429. The only thing we can evict those remaining pods. So let's get, since we're in green, let's evict pod from the green cluster. We get 201. And now that's the essentially minimum viable state of our database, if we disrupt the minimum pods, we're going to incur the disruption. Oh, sorry, outage for our database. And restoring pods should restore. Yes, it should restore the allowed disruption for PDBs. Cool, let me switch back to slides. Oops, first I need to change the screen. Sorry, I had to juggle, it's so easier to see. So hopefully my demo got you excited about possibilities. And surprisingly, as I mentioned, because the policies today have additional fields, the implementation of this control was relatively straightforward. So what was the hardest part? Kubernetes did a great job, fantastic job of offering extensibility in terms of custom types, there's a CRD and controller, like operator paradigm, right? However, Kubernetes offers little when it comes down to extending built-in types. In order to make this project work, I had to implement fully compatible disruption controller, which essentially behaves drop-in replacement, but also it supports for my new type, distributed PDB. And once implementation was done, I had to disable built-in controller through the controller manager flag so I can operate both controllers, well, so I can operate controller without competing with each other. Both of those are pretty formidable challenges. Building a fully compatible controller to built-in, it's a full-time job because not only you need to implement for this current version, if you all want to go that route, you will need to implement those for all future SKUs and patches, more than full-time job. And plus, not very productive because you will be duplicating effort. And disabling existing controller could be not an option for users who operate clusters where they don't have access to control plane. Think about your clusters in, clusters of service in the public cloud, EKS, GKE, and so forth. So what does it leave us? The big question is if there is desire to democratize the extensibility for built-in types in Kubernetes. Ideally what I would like to happen, I should be able to disable somehow, or indicate on my PDB types that do not, so the built-in controller does not process my types and only process specific types. Today in Kubernetes is already existing paradigm for that. We have a schedule name in PathSpec. We can deploy and implement our own scheduler and instruct specs to parts to be processed by the scheduler. Or there is an example of what Ingress annotations or Ingress class names today where we can operate multiple Ingress controllers to process the same type and have a controller not to compete with each other. So perhaps this talk and this demo could be a beginning of conversation if we want to add support for extending process of built-in types in Kubernetes. Through different controllers. And when it comes down to distributed PDBs, I have a question for you. Have you ever come across this or similar need? Where you need to solve the kind of disruption protection that you couldn't with the existing policies? And if you did, how did you solve it? And if you didn't, would you be interested in something that you just saw in my demo? I would like to hear a story. You've taken this in your feedback. Please talk to me after this presentation or reach out to me in Slack. And with that, I thank you for your time this afternoon and until next time, keep calm and disrupt. Thank you.


The Equitable Life Assurance Society presents this is your FBI This is your FBI The official broadcast from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation Presenter transcribed as a public service by the Equitable Life Assurance Society of the United States and the Equitable Society's representative in your community A shrewd psychologist who has had contacts with numerous leaders of American business once remarked Success and self-confidence go hand-in-hand Men who have a strong conviction that they are going to succeed are the ones that rise to the top in every field For people of this type people who have this feeling of certainty about themselves The Equitable Life Assurance Society has created its famous life insurance plan for men and women on the way up Do those words describe you? Then you'll be interested in about 14 minutes when I give full details of the equitable plan for men and women on the way up Tonight the subject of our FBI file extortion its title the Hollywood Shakedown Tonight's case from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation has been chosen for two important reasons One will develop as the story unfolds The second reason is to point out to you that there are times when being what is known as a good sport and get a person into very serious trouble Figuring out just what makes people become criminals is a tough job even for experts in this field But they do know that some of us have a deep psychological need to be liked and FBI records show that this desire for the approval of others can often lead to crime In the beginning the favor asked may seem only just a bit shady to those who can't say no at the right time But it may lead them on far deeper than they first thought possible Soon they find themselves involved with criminals and unable to get out from under Tonight's case from the official files of the FBI shows what happens to a person who takes the first step into crime Motivated by nothing more than a weak good nature Tonight's FBI file opens in the foothills of a western mountain range Across the landscape are clusters of people in costume Somewhere suits of armor some leather buskins and others plumbed hats or yellow lace a motion picture company is on location And these are the players a blonde girl dressed in the outfit of a lady-in-waiting Sits in the shade of a tree resting while the cameras are set up a young man dressed in full armor approaches Hi, Katie. Hi, Slim mine company, of course not sit on Potter and a prairie fire in it must be great in that tin soup got any cigarettes in there. Sorry. I got the early model no pockets My girl. Oh, hello, Mr. Stone. I thought you were coming by my trailer to cool off Well, I got this for and couldn't walk another step. Oh, that's too bad. I I had a martini chilled Well, I am sorry. Oh, don't feel too badly. It didn't go to waste Katie I understand this celluloid chamber of horrors is not shooting tonight. So if you'll join me in a nice quiet dinner We don't I can't but I found a charming in by the lake I promised myself. I'd rest after work. Oh, we could eat early and you could see you to me like the lady said no Young man. I was not issuing a mass invitation Katie you want to go with him? I Can't You heard her mr.  Oh, pardon me slim. I've got to talk to someone go ahead. I'll see you later Hello, Katie. I haven't seen you all day. I know honey. I've been busy busy reading the racing for look I got to get over and load this stuff in the camera. I'll come by later Maybe I made a mistake what Grandson stone invited me to dinner and I turned him down. I thought you'd want to see me. I do Well, I'm tired of running second door camera. Look, honey I'm in trouble. What is it? I'm stuck a thousand dollars to a bookie and he sent me word this morning I pay when we get back to the studio or else. Oh, that's why I haven't been around to see you Ladies and waiting front and center. That's me. I gotta run. Yeah, go ahead. I'll meet you later We must reach the castle before dark And we must be inside by midnight We can do these things if we take the bridge if I fall when the battle starts I want only one promise from you who follow me a promise that you'll carry on for the king All these folks looks like stampede Working westerns. I ain't used to crowds We kind of think of mob scenes where they got more than one guitar Remember a picture one time we rode this way mornings and that way afternoons wearing different costumes But the whole battle of the Alamo using eight men. Oh, no, just sure And last year Right, excuse me, Sam. Sure. I'll catch up to you later Katie, I think I got it. You've got what a way to get the thousand bucks for the bookmaker But you got to help me. Yeah, go have dinner with stone tonight. What? Well, you said he invited you I couldn't ask him for any money. You don't have to he's got his car up here with him He'll take you someplace where they serve grog get him mowed and after dinner say you want to drive But I don't drive down to the lake I'll be parked in back of a tree with a camera and tomorrow we sell him the pictures for 5,000 you mean Bill are you serious? Of course. I am That would be awful honey save that look for the camera. I couldn't do a thing like that. I'm in a box, baby Oh, no, look How about if I made you a partner? What do you mean give you half the loot? I only need a G to pay the bookmaker.   We'll be at the lake at 1030 Nearby at a local FBI field office special agent Jim Taylor greets agent Vic Brown in the teletype room Vic have you ever worked on tracking down the 16 millimeter prints? No Seems like a couple of studios made for the army was stolen somebody's runoff duplicate prints another copyright case, huh? That's it. I've been tracing the print of a picture called memories of tomorrow And I think I've come up with a lead on it Yeah, what is it? Well the studio record show one print was borrowed two weeks ago by an actor named Grantland Ston So they wanted to run it at home. There's no record of it ever being returned been in touch with him No, not yet. He's making a picture up at Warrensburg. Hey, we better go up there, huh? Yeah, I think so I'll ask the garage to have a car ready for his first thing tomorrow morning See what you think of this Dear mr. Stone, I have three pictures of you and Miss Katie knocks embracing each other in your car I'm willing to give you the pictures for five thousand dollars if you don't pay your life won't be worth five thousand cents Leave the lights burning on your trailer if you're willing to do business How's it sound? Love something out what part about how he'll pay well first We got to find out if you'll go for it Maybe you ought to send him one of the pictures honey We don't give away free samples if he wants him he's got to come up with some green Anything else you think we ought to say no Let me have one of your envelopes, okay Here thanks Well See you later. Where are you going into Warrensburg and mail this that way he'll get it in the morning And all we got to do is wait and Collect pardon me. Yeah, partner. Where can we find Grant on stone that there's his trailer? Oh, thanks very much. Come on I never thought I'd see that why King Arthur's Knights playing gin rummy About that pair and plume hats over there working on a hot rod. It might be better off shooting this instead of the picture This is it every morning mr. Stone I thought it was my press relations man. No, sir. I'm special agent Taylor of the FBI This is agent Brown. Oh, just sit down, please. Thank you. Thanks. I always heard you men worked fast, but I never thought you were this quick How did you ever find out? I checked the studio records that this letter wasn't open till I got it Mr. Stone, I don't think we're talking about the same thing We came here because you're supposed to have borrowed a print of memories of tomorrow from the studio. Oh Did you borrow the print? Yes, I always get the ones I'm in you remember what you did with it. Well, I returned it naturally Not according to the studio records gentlemen I had trouble about a print once before my secretary now gets a receipt each time from messenger Did you get one for this? She must have if you'll call her at the studio. I'm sure she'll show it to you fine Thank you, mr. Stone a gentleman just a moment as you noticed I was rather confused about the purpose of your visit when you arrived. Yes, sir before I tell you the reason let me ask Can I discuss a matter with you in confidence? Of course Well, I'm a married man.  I took one of the extras to dinner afterward she asked to drive we went to the lake I You well, I I probably kissed her. I'm not a memory expert after a few drinks, but I don't guess anybody Mr. Stone, I don't like to interrupt but why tell all of this to us when the mail was delivered this morning this This blackmail letter was in it. I'm to pay five thousand dollars for pictures of the young lady and myself or Or I'll be killed Surely thank you Mr. Stone do you recognize the handwriting? I've never seen it before This girl you say you went out with last night. What what is her name Katie Knox? Not a very long. Oh, she's done some extra work in a few of my pictures, but I Can't really say I know her Like this is definitely an extortion case. What would you advise me to do mr. Taylor turn on your lights? But that's what the note says exactly from here on mr. Stone you follow every instruction When they trumpets blow again the men on horses right across camera left to right you ladies and waiting Curtsy toward the castle and the camera swings to the left again picks up the man dragging the cannons When the horses reach the castle fire the cannons. All right places everybody What happened to your suit of armor nothing my horse got sick so they grounded me Only one on the racket fit me You're hoping none of my friends get to see in me and all this lace Guess I'm supposed to curtsy to you lady waiting. Don't rightly know where Now what's wrong you met on the cannons you're supposed to fire together You also to keep dragging them toward the castle you get opposite the reflectors. Oh, let's go back and try to get it right this time No, I was a young girl when they started shooting this scene Okay You're gonna look silly in the scene. We're out of camera range Yeah, I just saw stone he was talking to the unit manager about the letter No stone wanted to take his check for 5,000 in the town and get it cashed work. Yeah What do we do now? I'm writing him another letter right after lunch Where are you going to have him leave the money? Well, you remember that cave? We shot the scenes in last week.  Then how do we collect it? What do you mean? Well, I suppose he has a spotter and finds out that it's not that all figured With a little help from you, baby. We get the dough and still stay in the clear He will return shortly to tonight's case from the official files of your FBI Now for a moment. Let's consider an entirely different type of case The case of John McDonald a man who's proved that life does begin at 40 as a youngster John loved to fool around with cars take him apart put them together But circumstances made John a bookkeeper for many years he worked at a job He didn't have his heart in but when he was 40 he traded in his pencil for a monkey wrench and opened his own service station Then what happened John? I began enjoying life and my income almost doubled overnight Yes, he knew deep inside that someday he do the work he loved to do and really go places He also learned from his equitable society representative that equitable had a special policy for people like him People who are bound and determined to get ahead It's called the equitable plan for men and women on the way up. It's big feature is Flexibility it keeps your income and insurance in perfect balance In other words as your income goes up your insurance program can keep pace with it when I started making more money I fixed up my insurance to fit my new needs by taking advantage of one of the options in my equitable plan another very important thing About this equitable plan is it's exceptionally low cost to start with yet while you're waiting for your ship to come in Your family gets the insurance protection they need. I was sure thankful for the low cost during the lean years Thing the premiums never put us in a hole. Why not take a leaf out of John McDonald's book? Ask your equitable society representative for full details of this plan for people like you Ambitious men and women on the way up or send a postcard care of this station to the equitable society That's a Q. Y. T. A. B. L. A. The equitable life assurance society of the United States And now back to the FBI file the Hollywood shakedown The crime of obtaining money from people by threats of exposure or violence is known as extortion This crime has been likened to an iceberg most of which is underwater on the same principle Students of criminology estimate that the majority of all extortion schemes are never reported to any police agency For that reason it is impossible to know exactly how much money the American people annually pay the criminals who ply this trade There is little doubt that it runs high in the millions This amount could be reduced to absolute zero almost overnight. It can be done very simply Every victim singled out by an extortionist should follow the example of Grant Lynn stone in tonight's file The fact should be reported immediately to the police if a local statute has been violated and to the FBI if a federal crime is indicated They will do everything in their power to keep you from receiving unwelcomed publicity They are experts in dealing with this type of criminal They are always eager to cooperate in taking the profit out of crime The night's FBI file continues later that day in the trailer dressing room of Gretland stone Special agents Taylor and Brown have just returned Mr. Stone, yes, I've received my instructions now. Where's the money to be left inside the mouth of Lancelot's cave Where a long narrow cave near here we used for a scene in the picture Jim that could mean the extortioners in the troop Y'all all mr. Stone may I see that second letter for you surely Thank you. Looks like the same writing as the other one You've been inside the cave only while we shot that scene Engage in Taylor and I could hide there without being seen no question about it This letter says to leave the money there before noon. Yes, it's all in this package Well, when you deliver it, please try to have as many people as possible notice you're going to the cave Mr. Taylor as many people as possible notice me wherever I go I'm sure we'll be there waiting for whoever comes I'm here Jim You don't have to see whoever come to them. I guess not You only be sure why All it come off with the light on him big What's going on in here special agents the FBI I'll take that package, please Sure, mr.  Just what are you talking about? What do you think is in that package got no notion how'd you happen to come for it then friend of mine asked me to Friend named Katie Knox. Let me put this envelope down where the money was pictures in Three of Katie Knox and Grantland stone in the car. You take those pictures. No, where'd you get them? Friend gave him to the same one. Mm-hmm. What's your friend's name? Maybe you'll tell us his name slim Franklin You mind answering something for me. No Just what are you doing here? We've been waiting for somebody to pick up that money now. Suppose you try answering that same question for us Franklin still denies everything like oh, did you get through to the office? Yeah a couple minutes ago Hmm. I said was no right down the line on everything Katie Knox has no record either has slim Franklin Handwriting on the notes doesn't match either sample Oh Franklin admits having some words with stone day before yesterday about what the Knox girl Oh, yeah, he says he was sitting with her when stone came up and asked for a date She refused when stone persisted Franklin chased him away. It didn't make sense. She did have dinner with him. Yeah, I know He said anything else about miss Knox plenty except when I asked if she's the one who sent him there Couldn't mean they're both in on it Vic I can't tell you why but I just don't think Franklin's mixed up as deep as it looks you haven't changed your mind about the girl No, she's my candidate. Hey, maybe Franklin will open up to you about her. Want me to try? Yeah, will you? I'll go see what she has to say about him Attention extras ready in 10 minutes for the battle scene be sure your costume has been checked Well, I have to talk to you if the eye man came to see me when few minutes ago. They've got slim in jail Yeah, I heard about that. We've got to do something. I know if I don't get that thousand bucks for that bookmaker I mean about this. Oh look, honey, that deal's over but slim can tell him about me He won't not the all-american boy.  He didn't now. It's too late Why all you do is say it ain't true It's his word against yours and he got nailed in the cave You still know nothing I'm glad I found you miss Knox. Why well, I've checked as much as I can of what you told me and And I thought you'd want to know that so far everything you said is true No, not very much mr. Stone Miss Knox claims she barely knows Franklin. Did you expect a confession? No sir, but we checked her story We can't find any flaws in it. It seems to me that you're wasting a lot of time No, you found Franklin in the cave with the money in his hand make him tell you what he knows That's not the way we work Besides, I'm not sure he's guilty and why not for one thing our lab just reported traces of face powder on the envelope containing each note Oh, not on the notes themselves, but only on the envelopes. What does that mean? I would appear the powder was worn by whoever mailed the letters But not by the person who wrote them miss Knox uses that brand. Well, then arrest her It's not that conclusive mr. Stone Besides, she didn't work this alone. Somebody had to take those pictures. I still can't understand how they were taken I had a few drinks is true, but even so I've seen a flash bulb go off and you didn't know now This is quite important mr. Stone. You're sure you saw no flash at all. No none Right away promise to stone. I'll walk over. We did there's something I want to check To fight and personal glory for lying in the balance is our honor as a people Do we go to the struggle with your blessing? Katie I'm going what I'm leaving. Well, you can't we're not through shoes. Look the bookmaker called He won't wait. So I better hit the ever-loving road. No, you're not running out on me This was your idea Phil and you're not leaving me holding out Who's that the FBI guy's coming around the truck just a minute, please? See you later, Katie. Are you two Adams? What's wrong? We've checked the rest of your story miss Knox. Mr. Taylor. Could you wait till later to ask any more questions? We're all finished asking questions. This is the part where I give you some answers For example Adams here was your partner not slim Franklin. I was what you took those pictures at the lake Stone didn't see any flash bulb flare that meant one thing Infrared you signed up for a camera Wednesday night. Sure for my work You also signed out for some infrared film and bald.  We don't need any more information from her Adams Your signature in the book where you signed up for that camera and the equipment is a perfect match for the writing in the extortion letters Katie Knox and Phil Adams were convicted in federal court of violation of the extortion statute and sentenced to two and five years respectively With the arrest of Katie Knox and Phil Adams the two special agents were able to release the victim of their attempted frame up cowboy actor Slim Franklin and so not only was your FBI able to close another case But also to maintain its reputation for working as hard to free the innocent as to help convict the guilty Because of that policy the Federal Bureau of Investigation set a record last year of which it is justly proud Almost 98% of all people arrested by special agents were later found to be guilty when their cases came to court This record is convincing proof that your FBI never makes arrests unless there is overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing This is the American way in complete accord with our ancient tradition of safeguarding the rights and freedom of Every law abiding citizen Last word on the equitable society's plan for men and women on the way up a Plan made for the man who's looking forward to the day when his boss will say to him Ed You're getting Olson's job with a very substantial increase in salary Are you that kind of man? Then don't wait another day Ask your equitable society representative to work out your personal plan for a man on the way up Or send a postcard care of this station to the equitable life insurance society Next week we will dramatize another case from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation its subject Racketeering its title Success story The incidents used in tonight's equitable life insurance societies broadcast are adapted from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation However, all names used are fictitious and any similarity thereof to the names of persons living or dead is accidental Tonight the music was composed and conducted by Frederick Steiner. The author was Jerry D. Lewis Your narrator was William Woodson and special agent Taylor was played by Stacy Harris Others in the cast were Sam Edwards, JC Flippen, Lamont Johnson, Charlotte Lawrence and Herb Rawlinson This is your FBI is a Jerry divine production This is Larry Keating speaking for the equitable life insurance society of the United States and the equitable society is representative in your community and Inviting you to tune in again next week at this same time when the equitable life insurance society Will bring you another thrilling transcribe story from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation Success story on this is your FBI Stay tuned for the adventures of Ozzie and Harriet. There's fun for the whole family when Ozzie and Harriet come your way next This program came to you from Hollywood


This is your FBI This is your FBI The official broadcast from the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation presented as a public service by the Equitable Life Assurance Society of the United States and the Equitable Society's representative in your community Are you one of the 47 million Americans who benefit from group insurance? Listen carefully to this message from Mr. R. M. Cain President of the Abbott Laboratories manufacturers of pharmaceutical products. Mr. Cain says We take pride in our complete group insurance program Which we have worked out with the Equitable Life Assurance Society of the United States We are especially proud to have been the first company to provide for the payment of most of the hospital and doctor's bills for our employees and their dependents The company is glad to pay the cost of four forms of employee coverage and to share with employees the cost of other protection for themselves and their dependents Yes, group insurance is something worth owning In 13 minutes the Equitable Life Assurance Society will give further important information about group insurance tonight's FBI file blueprint for murder Some men in every community are genuine public servants They're the ones who helped raise money to build a new wing on the hospital They are the ones who are serving now as chairman of the drive to raise funds for the USO They are the ones who believe that every man is indeed his brother's keeper Without those men America would be a bankrupt nation indeed a vanquished nation For those are the men who in the darkest hours of the feet rose to the heights that led us on to victory They were everywhere on the battlefield and on the home front But we are not a nation composed entirely of heroes Or there were some during the war who took advantage of their fellow citizens Just as there are some who are doing that very thing today The night's file opens in a small western city We're in the living room of an old house occupied by Frank medicine and his wife Mary Sunday afternoon a few weeks ago and the medicines have just returned from church when the doorbell rings Yes Are you Mrs. Madison? That's right. Well, I'm Walter Douglas Is mr. Madison at home?  Someone for you Frank. Okay, I'll be running on Won't you please sit down mr. Douglas? Thank you You'll keep a very neat house I wish you'd mentioned that when my husband comes here. I will but doesn't eat it Well, well, well, here's the town hero now. Oh, mr. Douglas Frank. I Hope you don't mind my calling you Frank. Why not at all? I Suspect you've been calling me some other things recently Well, then you know why I'm here and that'll save us some time I think I do know why you're here, but I'd rather hear it from you. All right You were down at the county clerk's office a week ago with an engineer. That's right And you were checking my blueprints and specifications for the bridge my firm is building down at the river right again. I Knew the clerk would call you after I left and then you were up to talk to some of my men who are working on the bridge job and they Let you have some samples of the materials we're using and I don't mind telling you now that the quality of those samples Didn't come up to your specifications. Oh, you've already gotten a report back on the man came back yesterday Look son when you went away from here four and a half years ago You were working in Tom Jenkins garage as a grease monkey remember like it was yesterday And when you came home the town was so grateful that we all chipped in and bought you your own garage I remember that too. Now's the time to get down to cases then Who do you think bought that garage? Why? The people of Jefferson County Yes, in a way they did But I'm the one who started it through my sunflower social club. I put the whole thing over in other words Walter Douglas gave you that garage sir and now Walter Douglas wants me to forget about the report That's right, I couldn't do that mr. Douglas I've just been elected city chairman of the better government group. Yes, I know baker's organization, but Baker doesn't know you've gotten the report back yet. Does he know but he will How much will you take to tear up the report? Look mr. Douglas. I can take only so much. You better get out of here now You might find it a little dangerous Tangling with an organization like mine son. I don't scare that easy mr. Douglas I'll take my chances And come in and close the door Louie Sit down Louie Louie I got a job for you. Oh good for self getting out of practice lately. What's the job? Miss Jenkins get me buddy over the cabin will you Louie You know that garage down at main and 5th Street. Yeah, yeah sure ain't that the place where we had all the music? Yes, Louie, that's the place Ever been inside sure had a flat fix that two weeks ago. What's the funniest thing? Save it Louie? I haven't got time for the story now. Okay. I'll tell you later Remember the job you did three years ago on the old turnpike The fire that's the one you want it should bring down a guy's garage. No, no, no not entirely Louie, I don't think we have to go that far You want like a one-alarm fire they should get them time to put it out I'm sure you have described it perfectly. If there's a small fire the damage is about 25% of the place I I think that'll be sufficient when he went the job done for us some time within the next 48 hours Okay, I'll do it one tonight Oh, hello, Mr. Douglas. Hey, I learned a new song today on the fiddle. That's fine, buddy. It's fine. Listen on Monday night Louie will be up to the cabin. All right, Mr. Douglas Say you want me to play the song to you over the telephone? Not right now buddy. No. Bye Louie, yeah, buddy.  Just enough to scare In a large nearby city Wednesday morning found two old friends seated at the desk in the field office of the FBI Special Agent Jim Taylor spoke first. All right. It's good to see you again Frank. I wish I could say the same Jim Kind of a crack is that to me. I'm here on business Jim. Oh What's the trouble? Well, let me go back to the beginning. All right guy go ahead a couple of weeks ago I was elected city chairman of the local better government group. I couldn't have picked a better man Thanks, Jim. Well, right off the bat I decided to look into the bridge that's being built down our way by Walter Douglas You didn't have to tell me he was doing the job. He's built everything in this county except a good reputation You said it I'll go on Frank. Well, we took some samples of the stuff He's building a bridge with and sent them to a laboratory and I just got the report back I can guess what it shows it shows that the bridge is going to be a danger to life and limb Yeah, that's bad Last Sunday after Douglas knew I had the report he came to the house and told me it would be dangerous to tangle with him Was able to walk out under his own power. I didn't touch him. That's all he's looking for Well Frank any witnesses to his threat? No Mary was in the kitchen. That's too bad. Well, go on. What happened then? Well last night. There was a fire at my garage. No started at about 9 30 an hour and a half after I went home For any evidence that Douglas did it? Oh, no, but I found Somebody sneaked in and slugged my nightmare and while he was unconscious. They started the fire Well, then your nightmare didn't see who did it. Oh Jim what can you do for me? Well, Frank, uh, I'll tell you what I'd do if I were in your place What I'd bring a lawsuit against the city and against Douglas claiming that the bridge is a danger to life and limb Oh, but that'll take too long Jim. I want to I know what you want to do Now in addition to the action against the city and Douglas You also get a temporary injunction against the city for what? Prevent them from paying any more the taxpayers money to Douglas until after the action comes to court You think that'll do it? I know it will. Well, that'll tie his hands so tight. He'll think he's wearing handcuffs. Thanks Jim I'll let you know how I make out right Frank and give my best to Mary Yeah, Louie come in and close the door Get another job for you. You're gonna make a little trip Well, yeah, where am I going up to my lodge in the mountains? Well alone. Oh, you'll have company Listen to these instructions carefully Louie. Yeah, boys. I can't afford to have you make any mistakes this time I'll be real careful honest. All right. I'm the way up to the lodge. You go through a town named Medford Yeah, yeah, I know what it is. Frederick Baker lives up there He's head of the better government group that Frank Madison is connected with. Yeah Now when you get to Medford go to the telegraph office and send this telegram to Madison It's telling him that a car is being sent in to pick him up and it's signed Frederick Baker. Yeah. Yeah, I got you That's easy boy. All right, and go on up to the lodge and get buddy to drive back down here with you Oh, what do I need info? There's a two of you We're gonna pick up Frank Madison blind fold them take them back up to the lodge and keep them there until this case comes up in court Who is that at the door dear? Western Union, hon. Oh Who's it from? Oh, it's from mr. Baker. Hmm. What do you say? What's me to come up and see him tonight? Well, does he say what it's about? No, but maybe the group has dug up something new about Douglas Oh, what time do you have to leave? Mr. Baker says his car will pick me up seven. Oh Golly, it's only a couple of minutes from now. You say so it is well. I don't have it to pack anything I'll be back later tonight. Okay. I'll wait up for you dear. Okay, enough. I should have to be gone overnight I'll call all right here. Oh, there's the car coming in the driveway right now Yeah, I guess that's it. All right. It's certainly nice of him to send his car all the way in for you, isn't it? I'll go there. All right, Mr. Madison. Yes, sir. Are you from mr. Baker? That's right. Okay. I'll be with you in a minute Mary will you will you hand me my hat, hon? Oh, sure I will but where it I'll see you later See you later, dear. Oh, it's certainly a beautiful night, isn't it? Yeah Nice driving through the country tonight. Mm-hmm How long to take you to drive down from Medford?  Madison back or in front?  Okay, wait.  Madison Nice work, Louis. You never even guessed you was there. All right. Get me on the wheel. Let's get out of here We will return in just a moment to tonight's file which shows how your FBI promotes national security Now let's hear from a typical American who has attained greater personal security Thanks to his employers cooperation and the equitable society. We've got a good boy in our company last year He signed us up for a complete group insurance protection and brother am I glad he did you ought to be glad you and your family are Protected by life insurance accident and sickness insurance and a retirement income plus hospital medical and surgical benefits for yourself and your wife and children All in one package from the equitable life assurance society and don't forget no medical examination But what I'd like to know is how do I get so much for so little money one reason is that your employer pays part of the cost Besides there are a lot of other employees in your group So the equitable society is able to sell you insurance that well you might call it the wholesale price It sure came in handy when my wife had our last baby Why before we had group insurance my first two kids each put me in debt for a year But this time along comes a check from the equitable society right on the dot. It sure looked good to me You know group insurance was originated by the equitable life assurance society in 1911 if your company does not have group insurance or if your company's group program is incomplete Your management can get in touch with the nearest equitable life assurance society office. That's e q u i t a b le the equitable life assurance society of the united states And now back to the fbi file blueprint for murder A little more than a year ago The last shell was fired in world war two A war which took americans all over the face of the earth in an effort to retain a world in which we could live in peace That war was fought because the citizens of the world allowed themselves the luxury of neglecting their worldly duties But neglecting to clear up the festering sore spots that later threatened to infect every nation on earth Adolf hitler and benito musolini were petty local grafters at one time Petty local charlatans like the man in tonight's case from the files of your fbi But it is a certain proof That from petty local tyrants Come threatening national dictators The place to start cleaning house Is in your own backyard The night's file continues in the living room of the madison home Special agent jim taylor in response to a frenzied phone call from mary has just arrived Oh jim Oh jim, what am i going to do what mary the first thing to do is pull yourself together Come on all right jim i'll i'll try Now look frank is famous for having a lot of courage to let show everybody he hasn't got it all All right, i'm ready to help How do i start good good Now you said over the phone that a man called here for frank last night That's right. He said he was from mr. Baker's well i spoke to baker after you called he didn't send the telegram that frank got I know i called him too.  I don't know what makes pulled up in front of the house at seven o'clock Frank went out got in the car and I watched it speed across the state line Early this morning when frank hadn't come home or called me I called mr. Baker, then you called me That's right. Now mary try to remember this. It's very important Has any other car been in your driveway since the car that took frank away? No No, none at all And that was the only car in the driveway at all yesterday because frank didn't drive down to the garage yesterday Oh, why not no reason. He just said he wanted to walk. He does that every once in a while Well, okay, we've got something to work on anyway. It's not much, but it's a start What is it? Well, there's some clear tire tracks in your driveway. I noticed them when I came up the walk I can make a print of them And there's some red clay in the driveway that probably came off the tires of that car Oh, yes, I noticed that this morning when I looked out. Well, we'll have the lab check on the clay That's about all we can do right now I'm gonna make those tire prints mary and pick up some of that clay I'll see you later How are things going when you're left? Oh, they was going fine. When does the case come up? Wednesday afternoon And there'll be a postponement And when it comes up next time, I don't think mr.  So he doesn't know where he was being taken. Oh, sure boss. Yeah, right after I hit him buddy drove away And while Madison was out I put the tape over his eyes. He couldn't say nothing. I guarantee you boss That's fine And he wouldn't be able to direct anyone to the cabin after he set free on Thursday Oh, you want me to take him down there med foot while he's still blindfolded and just let him out of the car No, no, not you. I want buddy to do that Then I'll send buddy away for a couple of months while he heats on and then Everybody will forget all about it. Yeah, but boys what difference does it make if buddy on me lets him go Madison knows I was in on a job You what? Yeah, yeah, sure Like I say I taped his eyes real tight But he come out of it after I clunked him and he heard me talking right away. He said hello loy Oh, no, why didn't you tell me that why don't you wait three whole days to tell me? Well, I didn't say until just now what should I do sit down and write your letter from up there Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's have a little quiet. Yeah, boss Louis You got still another job to do. Okay boys. What is it if Madison knows you worked on the job Then he can hook me into it and we can't afford that What do you want me to do? Just tell me boys. Louis You know the high ledge behind the cabin. Yeah, yeah, sure makes me dizzy when I look down Madison's still blindfolded in there. Yeah, I told you boys. He's still taped up. He can't see nothing good You drive back up to the cabin you go in and talk to Madison and tell him you want to take a walk with him Tell him the exercise will be good for him. Yeah Oh, what happens?  Go for a walk with Madison you walk up to the cliff and he keeps walking There's snow in that canyon nobody will find the body into a spring It's it boys.  No nothing yet, Mary I I don't think I can stand this very much. Hold on to yourself These cases sometimes run this way You don't get a thing for days and then well everything happens at once. What happened with that red clay Anything petrographic experts are working on it. Mary. I can't do a thing till I hear from them And there wasn't anything in those deeds down in the county courthouse. No, Mary, not a thing If Douglass had frank kidnapped by some of his henchmen, he's holding him somewhere that's not registered in his name I wish frank had never gotten mixed up in this thing. Oh, Mary You'll be proud. He did when he gets back Oh, then do I really think you'll be back? I certainly He'll be all right But Mary you won't be all right unless you get some sleep How could I sleep? I'll call you the minute anything breaks not I'll get it. All right Hello Yes, this is Taylor. Oh, hello, Gordon. Yes Where? Yeah Yeah, I see Okay, thanks tell the office I'll be in touch with him later What is it Jim? It's the first break we've gotten one of the agents down at the office Found out Douglass likes to go hunting hunting. How does that help us? Well, they checked through the newspaper files found a picture of Douglass on a hunting trip up at mount bell Let me finish Mary And the office had the petrographic expert checked the red clay from your driveway against some standards They had from mount bell and they matched as closely as those samples ever match. What are you going to do then jim? I'm going on a hunting trip. Mary up to mount bell hunting for frank Hey buddy, huh? Why I don't want you to think I'm not grateful for all the entertainment But I want to know who you work for You work for Douglass or for louis? I don't know what you're talking about. I keep telling you that You don't expect me to believe that you own this place, do you? Why not? Ain't much of a place. Where would you get the money to buy it from a fiddle?   Okay, how's it been acting? Oh fine. We ain't had no trouble at all. What's the reason for the visit louis? Mr.  Hey Louie. I thought he said not to musc this guy up. That's off now Hey, yo, you mean me? Yeah, yo what get up? Where's his coat buddy? You're gonna spring him now. Uh Just gonna take him for a little walk The exercise will do him good. Uh here. I'll get his coat You want me to come along? No, you've got enough for exercise. Hey, mr.  That's just what it is What's that for? That's to use on you Just in case you decide to scream when we get out on a road if there's anybody around there won't be I've been listening for three days Okay, Frank. It's me Jim. Jim. Holy Frank. What's the name of the one who didn't have the gun? That's buddy. Okay, buddy Just stand still You don't carry a gun, huh? Oh no, sir. I ain't a killer. All right. Go stand against that wall. Go on The other one's name is louis. Did you kill him?  Well, no, we'd better have a doctor in town to that Frank. Okay How'd you find me here? Well the red clay your friend's tires left in your driveway Wasn't found anywhere in the state except up here up where where am I near the top of Montbell So I just went from cabin to cabin until I found a garage that had a car with a tire that matched the impression They left in your driveway And well here I am boy. You make it sound easy Look, Jim, there's a phone in the bedroom off to the right. Will you lead me in there so I can call mary? Sure, Frank But then we've got a hurry. What's the big rush? This is wednesday and in just two hours your case against douglas comes up Well, what are we waiting for? Let's get rolling Walter Douglas was never tried and convicted of causing frank medicine to be kidnapped Because he committed suicide His accomplices charles buddy cook and louis young both received long sentences in a federal penitentiary And so another crime was prevented another murder in this country's growing crop of homicides Prevented by the quick work of your fbi Whose job it is to protect your lives and your properties But whose even more important job is to protect the civil liberties that american citizens have under our constitution A charter that grants you your right to free speech Your right to freedom of religion and your rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness Your fbi is honored to have so important an assignment And it means to continue to serve you the american people As well in the future as it has in the past In just a moment we tell you about next week's exciting case from the official files of your fbi Now one last word to business executives Since group insurance was originated by the equitable life assurance society 35 years ago Thousands of employers have learned that group insurance means satisfied workers Bill's loyalty and morale decreases labor turnover improves quality and quality of production Get all the facts and figures from an equitable society group insurance expert Whether your employees are entirely uninsured or have only partial protection Get in touch with the nearest office or write direct to the new york home office of the equitable life assurance society of the united state Next week we will bring you another colorful story from the files of the federal bureau of investigation The frightened fugitive The incidents used in tonight's equitable life assurance society's broadcasts are adapted from the files of the federal bureau of investigation However, all names used are fictitious and any similarity thereafter the names of persons living or dead is accidental Tonight's broadcast was directed by william m sweets The music was composed and conducted by frederick steiner The author was gerry d lewis and your narrator was dean carlton This is your fbi is a gerry divine production This is milton cross speaking for the equitable life assurance society of the united state And the equitable society's representative in your community and inviting you to tune in again next week at this same time When the equitable life assurance society of the united state will bring you another thrilling story from the files of the federal bureau of investigation The frightened fugitive on This is your fbi This is abc the american broadcasting company


Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2017, brought to you by Informatica. Welcome back everyone, we're here live in San Francisco for our wrap up of day one, theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Informatica World 2017. It's our flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the signal of the noise, I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE theCUBE, and my co-host this week is Peter Burris, head of research at SiliconANGLE Media, also the general manager of Wikibon.com, and check out all the great research, some great stuff behind the paywall, subscription require, but also some free content there as well. And our special guest is Neil Raiden, who's the new analyst on the Wikibon team. Welcome to the team, you're covering the value of data and analytics industry veteran, great to have you on the team. Thanks for joining us on our wrap up here. Thank you. Neil, welcome, Peter. Look at, this is kind of a coming out party for Informatica, we've been following them for multiple years, some of their top executives and CUBE alumni for many, many years, I think, I mean, Wally's going to be on his eighth year, eighth time on theCUBE, but look behind us, you see a new branding, Informatica has a new CMO and she's got Swagger and she's got brand impact, Informatica is now going to start bragging about their products, although it has some critical analysis of Informatica we'll get to in a second, but I've always said they've brought in a team of folks during the going private that have product chops and they've had an install base and their goal has been from the beginning, let's go private, close the curtain and get stuff reorganized and really work on the product. They had an install base and can they pivot? That was my question three years ago. Every year they keep on coming out with not a land grab but an incremental, they're moving the ball down the field to use your football analogy, burst in 10, do it again, but starting to get into that horizontally scalable cloud model in with good cloud deals, looking poise in my opinion for being a data layer potentially for making that data fabric on. So to me, I think that's the big story here so far is some good news around the brand, product increases got AI, augmented intelligence with Claire, some interesting dynamics, which means the interface to data is changing, not only the underlying value of the data which we want to get into, but Informatica's trying to up level the interface. Your thoughts? Well, so I think you're absolutely right, John. I think we've seen three things here. First off Informatica's always had a pretty decent product get well embedded within some really first rate customers. Number two, they've been talking about the need to accommodate some of the new trends around cloud and how they're going to move in that direction. They've been talking about it. This is the first year we've really seen it. And then number three, they even went Informatica talks, people have historically not listened as much. Sally Jenkins, the new CMO has gotten an enormous amount of work done in a very, very short period of time and this is a bang so and it's manifesting itself and that people are buzzing about it. Even if Informatica has a lot to do to really be that enterprise cloud data management leader, lot left to do, but it all starts by presenting themselves in a coherent way and that's something that we've seen. For the first time. And the value proposition has changed significantly. I was just talking about the Amazon stock price and since 2010 it's just been a skyrocket growth for Amazon across the board. Yeah, they've got the retail, but AWS certainly has been powering it. Having a good brand behind you is going to really energize the channel, ISV, software developers. And like I always joked about the old days when I used to work at Yula Packard, the joke was they used to call cold dead fish versus sushi, HP would be so accurate, so engineering oriented, it would be so accurate around the products. They didn't really have a lot of marketing and the joke was if they had sushi they'd call it cold dead fish because that's what it is, sushi sounds better. But again, back to marketing. They need to bring the brand out and put a message around the shift to value. Well, think about how important it's going to be to a company that increasingly acknowledges or acknowledges it increasingly, their customers are going to find them in something like the Amazon marketplace or in Google or in some other cloud environment. It means that they have to bias the customer to choose Informatica versus a range of tools that may not be as good, but some of them are going to be open source. To get people to bias at that moment you got to get your brand out there. You have to get your identity out there. And Informatica was not going to be a success when the customer's making that decision as they're looking at that Amazon marketplace just by word of mouth. They have to get their name out there. So this is big. The product is still good and improving. Getting to the cloud is a big deal. They're delivering on their promises and now having a marketing platform that allows them to scream a little bit louder from the rafters about who they are and what they want to be. A lot of it's coming together. And day two, we're going to have all the top execs on. They were in an offsite down the street right here at Intercontinental in San Francisco with Executive Customer Day. But we had SVP on for cloud business. We had the board member, Jerry Held, who's five decades in the business. I mean, he essentially laid it out. Hybrid cloud's here to stay and it's not going to be an overnight success. It's going to be a transition and that favors the legacy vendors who are sharpening their saw and getting their products in line. Of course we had the Chicago Cubs on and we took the ring, almost put it in my pocket in a very Putin-esque-like style. We all know Robert Kraft lost his Superbowl ring to the biggest criminal in the world, Putin, but kind of a fun there. But the baseball team highlights the customer journeys. They have customers that love them and stay with them because they install base. Absolutely. And Informatica is deeply embedded and has been, Neil, has been on the vanguard. I mean, look, they got a lot of work to do but they've been on the vanguard of tying together the idea of data, data as an asset, tooling, so you can get more value out of data through analytics. That's right. I'll tell you a little story. I mean, I brought Informatica into one of my clients the first time in 1996. They were pretty much a brand new company. About a year after they started. Yeah. And what motivated me to think about Informatica, as opposed to any other way we were trying to get data into a data warehouse, was that they understood metadata. They were the only company that had an active metadata repository. So this is their heritage. I know that Informatica claims they have, I don't know, 10,000 customers. I think a significant number of those are not going to be interested in this whole thing. They don't have the budget for it. They don't have the time or the staff or anything. But they've got the elite. When you look at the companies that are clients of Informatica, those are the people that would be interested and spend time and money on this sort of thing. So let me get you guys' perspective as analysts, because let's turn this into the analysis of what's happening here with Informatica and compare that to what's happening in the industry. SAP Sapphire is happening right now in Orlando. We've got Cube Coverage in our studio in Palo Alto, but Oracle, SAP, these are database guys. They have systems of record, IBM, Amazon's now a new player in that. They have to balance the install-based systems of record of their data. Now granted, old techniques, four walls, data warehouse, whatever you want to call it, it was an old way. Now the new way is to empower developers to actually build and use that data. So the question is, how do they get their product from old to new and modernize quickly and highlight data as value? Because this is the thing that you guys are both researching heavily, is that data now is going to start to be a valuation discussion. Are we getting the data through the pipes, if you will, into the hands of the developers, into the apps, into the decision-making process in the value chains that are being reconstructed? This is a top conversation that not a lot of people are laying out there with best practices. Your thoughts? Well, I think the first thing, and I'll start, Neil, I think the first thing is that that's probably my biggest thing on Informatica here, is that they need to be more of a beacon about what is the new data management. It's more than just the combination of tools, it's more than just getting data out of applications and getting data out of databases and freeing it up so that it can be applied. The notion of data management is evolving rapidly, and businesses are trying to, as they try to use data as an asset, is going to require some significant changes to how we think about data. Do you think they can put that stake in the ground right now and own that right now? I think somebody has to, I think they need to take a crack at it. Neil, what's your thoughts? I think they're weak on the value, I think they're weak on what happens. I always have this idea that you see their layer cakes and the things that go from left to right, but on the right-hand side of the diagram, there are no people. What happens when you implement all this? How do people use this? And that's true of everybody in this industry, not just Informatica, so that's one weakness. Last year when I was here, I thought they had a real weakness in governance, but with the Daikou axon acquisitions, I think they made a giant step towards that. They've got a lot of the peace parts and they're putting them together, but I don't think they're addressing what happens next. I call it the Jordan River problem.  Is it a river or a lake or an ocean? I mean, it's a data river, it's something happening. It's a lake, it's something. I think that's where they are because it's a whole different discipline. But is that on Informatica? I mean, they're now a smaller company, or is that an industry issue? No, it's an industry issue, but companies like Informatica, if they really want to be a leader, as he flings his glasses around, that's all passionate I am about this. If they want to be a leader or the leader, they have to put a stake in the ground, don't they? I believe so. Okay, so what about positives, Neil? What's your thoughts on how are they well positioned in your mind? Well, you know, putting together all these different pieces so that they operate together is phenomenal. Moving to, I still don't understand how enterprise software companies move to a subscription model smoothly. That's got to be a real headache, but they're moving to that. They've adopted the cloud. They still have the data integration. I mean, that's their keystone. It works beautifully, it gets better every year, and that's what attracts people to them. So I think these are all good things. And the good news is they're privacy. They can do that subscription, kind of hide the ball a little bit and then come out. But they're not doing bad. I mean, they have a spring to their step. You know, here's, I think Neil's absolutely right. Here's what I would add to it. They're executing. They have demonstrated over the past couple of years, certainly that we've been here and listening to them. They've made promises, they've delivered. They've made new promises, they've delivered. Some of these promises have been complex. Some of them have been extremely hard. They've still delivered. That is a real important piece of the story, because this notion of data management is changing. Customers are going to want to work with companies that have competent management that deliver on the promises that they're making. And Informatic is proving that they're up to that problem. I think, I think, I think. They have brilliant people. Everybody I've met here from Informatic is really special.  But they've got, they've got brilliant, motivated people working here. They've got a ton of experience. We're passionate about this stuff. And they've got a lot of experience too. And they've brought in some new guns with the product side. We're going to emit as a fantastic product executive, Aneosly, has that background. But I got to want to shift now to the end user now. They're now living in a world of massive business transformation. Yeah, digital transformation, rah rah. It's kind of over-hyped. But the repair, what that translates to is business transformation. That's the conversation on all CSOs. Business transformation around data. Around data. So I want to get your thoughts now. Vis-a-vis that, the customer's perspective. I'm looking at Informatica. How do I feel about them? Well, look, you know, before I march off this mortal coil, this is what I want to happen. I want to say, look, computer, I want to put together a new pricing model. All right. Here are a couple of variables I'm interested in. One of my competitors just issued a press release with some new pricing data. Go get that. And come back to me with some data. Recommend some data I need to build a model. Give me some options. Yeah. And that's clear. I mean, that's something to talk about, losing some automation and machine learning. Peter, you think that's the nirvana? That is a nice position to be.   Right. Give me some data. Let's think about the elements that are going to be important as we think about this new notion of data management. And again, I don't think Informatica is too far from this. A new notion of data management suggests, number one, that if your business is going to use data differently, you have to introduce some notion of some concept of design. How do I design business around data and how do I design data around business needs? Part of that problem is going to be being able to go out and capture inventory catalog metadata. No question about it. You're going to need the next generation of data management is going to be very metadata focused. Secondly, you need a lot of the tooling that's capable of doing the transformation and creating derivative value out of data. That's something else that they have. The third one, and this is a really, really important piece and we talked about it, for example, with Ryder and a couple of other people. Data has to move, but it has to move, not just based on point-to-point interfaces that are programmed and built, but based on patterns of utilization and in a way that the system recognizes that. And that is going to be crucially important, the whole notion of data moving in response to what the business needs and not what the people recognize and do. Okay, so that reminds me, I was speaking to someone who is part of their security stuff, right? And I said, well, have you considered how data security could benefit analysts as opposed to keeping the company out of trouble? Business analysts. Yeah, just couldn't answer the question, right? Because I said, so tell me how this works. And she said, well, you know, if someone has a pattern of how they work with data, if suddenly they work out of that pattern, it's going to send off a signal. I said, well, what's the signal? Are they going to get a skull and crossbones? They go, you can't have this data. Well, it sends a policy flag. Okay, hey, you matter your swim lane. That's like, get back into your jail cell. I mean, it's restrictive. Absolutely restrictive.  Here's what I like about Informatica from my perspective again. You guys are under the hood in a deeper way. But from my perspective is that what they're doing with the horizontally scalable is interesting. And this is interesting on the metadata side. You mentioned that with Google Spanner now available. They're in Amazon. If they can somehow create that addressable data sets, that could be horizontally scalable and freely available. I think that is a winning stretch because most of the vendors in the data take a siloed stack approach. Okay, here's our stack, you own it. So I think they're on this genius play of, okay, if we can get this horizontal layer, that is now the lock spec because now I'm agnostic on cloud. So to me, I think that directionally is correct. Where that is when the rubber meets the road is a whole other story. So your thoughts on that. It's very exciting. I hope they pull it off. I think it's very exciting. So if you think about it. They pull it off. Let's, well, there's, so there's, let's- Without being shot by the other incompetent thing of guns. Let's think about a couple of different ways of thinking about this, right? On the one hand, you have new ways of thinking about how data is going to be spread in a multi or in a hybrid cloud world. So that's happening. Secondly, we're thinking about data control and a data control plane above that.  And on top of that, now we're talking about some of the analytics and how data gets used from a metadata standpoint. So this is extremely relevant to where the industry is going to be in five years. Somebody is going to, somebody is going to get there and it's best to look for the folks who are, you know, skating to that puck. And Informatica seems to be skating there. All right, I want to ask you guys a question. I want you to tell me if I'm smoking crack or not when I say this. The whole goal of getting data from any database at any given time in less than a hundred milliseconds. No matter where it came from, when it came from, IOT included all the stuff's coming in. I got an, I'm an app developer. I want data programmability. Meaning I have an app and I'm doing some, some cognitive cognition thing. And all of a sudden, Neil, you bought something at Nordstroms from three years ago. It's some database. Yeah, let me just think about the logic on that query. But that data could be cross connected with other relevant data, your Twitter stuff or whatever you're doing. And pull together, provide some insight for you. Now that sounds like I'm smoking crack to pull that off. Is that possible? Can it be done in the kind of low latency mechanism? You know, it can be done, but I don't think we know enough about the data. There are four types of metadata still leave out deep semantic information. I'm hoping they're going to work on that. I mean, I was in here 10 years ago pitching ontologies and they threw me out. So, but I think that the four types of metadata. Hard to scale ontologies. Yeah, I think the four types of metadata are great, but they're still generating it mechanically from data sets as opposed to some knowledge about what the data really means. And to do what you want to do, I think you need some kind of semantic metadata. I agree with that. And you also need semantic information about the underlying network as well. So there's a lot more work to do to make that happen. A lot more work. All right, so final question. It's probably not going to be 100 milliseconds. 140, 150, maybe 200. Yeah, well, I mean, anything's, just getting the data would be a win. Okay, final question. This is kind of more on the stuff we've talked about in leading in the intro of the work you guys are doing. The valuation concept of data. I mean, I'd say valuation, I could mean financial valuation, how valuable of a firm is. Or what is our CFO, where's our assets? Where's our data assets? So there's a combination of data hygiene and also in heart surgery, right? If it's the heartbeat of your organization. Who the hell's the surgeon? Who's the doctor? When do you do CPR? Who does the hygiene? Who's the, who does the amputation?  The nature of the firm is completely upside down when you start thinking data. Just your reaction to that concept. Well, they have a very loyal customer base. So I think that they can get out with this before it's completely cooked and have some success. Maybe I'm being optimistic, I don't know. Peter, good thoughts. Valuation of data. I think that there is, that a way of thinking about it is not to value data in a narrow sense, to think about what we're calling data dynamics. And the idea that data's value is founded in its use. It's not something that has value when it's just sitting there and not being used. It's, yeah, it's like that old saw, I don't know how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it. Yeah. Right, I think that. And data and motion. And that was the Supreme Court justice, I didn't say that. Yeah, exactly. But it's like teenage sex, you know, the things they're having it. But in recent years, this goes back to that notion of data management. It's, how am I going to use data? How am I going to get value out of data through its use? And that suggests a whole different set of principles and practices that are quite different from how we normally value assets. Okay, tomorrow we've got the topic sex coming in, we've got the CMO, we've got the CEO, we've got the EVP of products. What should we be asking them tomorrow? What should I be opening up the kimono on and digging into them on? I'd ask them what, you know, the roadmap is in terms of getting this implemented in their best customers. Not the software development roadmap. So tell us the adoption roadmap. How this is going to roll out for you. That's what I'd like to hear. Peter, you're certainly be here until two o'clock, we'll be there. What are you going to be looking at? I'd look for two things. One is I would continuously push on the execution. Are they really executing as reliably as we think they are? Because they're making some big promises this year too. The second one I'd look at is again, that beacon, that touchstone. What is this new data management? What are you really going to be leading? That's true. And I'm still blown away by the conferences I go to and everyone's like, well there's a new way, new modern era is evolving, it's transforming. But yeah, we're number one in five magic quadrants. Wait a minute, how can you get magic quadrants as the scoreboard if you're going to do a new definition? So again, our metric KPI on that is customers. What is your customer attraction? Show me the proof point. I don't care what magic quadrant. That's an old metric. That's siloed based, that's not reality based in my opinion, so we won't drill them on customers to me, that's the scoreboard. Okay, this is theCUBE breaking down day one wrap up here at Informatica World. This is theCUBE coverage. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris and special guest, new Wikibonist, Neil Raden, covering the value of data and analytics. See you tomorrow, stay with us for more continuing coverage tomorrow for full day. Be right back.