Hello, hey humans So now we begin and so we begin So let's see we were talking backstage about Why this era is different and like sort of like How do we call? When you call the technique the technique and also the Technopoly right by Neil postman or If you guys will forgive a little bit of the punniness like Now live in the like a new epic we live in the epoch Yeah, yes, and geologists often call it the Anthropocene the Anthropocene exactly or so we can get technosene Yes, yeah, the tech scene the tech. Yeah, it's a little Yeah, it doesn't rule off the tongue no no, but I think it's actually a really important thing to call out That you know these things that sit in our pockets Now are the sense-making devices by which we understand the world these are sort of the GPS's I mean this and technology more broadly That we navigate that we make meaning we decide what's valuable to us like how we even like come to what is our identity? all comes through Technology well, I would actually go further than that and one of the things that happened recently interestingly is that aza Belongs to a collective of art and technologists and he recently had a dinner that he hosted at his house a bunch of very well-known technologists were attending there and One of the things that I realized actually during the course of that conversation when we were when we were sitting around the dinner table was that All of us were working on the project of humanizing technology that we were all working towards making the human Are there a recognizable part of what we were building? Adapting technology to human needs You know making sure that the tendency of technology to dehumanize is curbed Yeah, and what I realized also is that a lot of us that were in the room were Software designers software developers we'd been working at places such as Facebook and Google and You know all of the various companies that that I have I have worked at and all the startups that we've been building and that we've Been actually addressing an incredibly small part of the problem We are basically and I and I have I've been this is like my fourth time actually up on the up on the slush stage Yeah, and the and You've actually actually been at least that many times up on this last day just this is the slush I'm realizing but the but that the Thing that we've been talking about is actually changing the way that we build software We've been talking about the way that we design our apps You know how much we use our phones But what occurred to me at that meaning was number one all of us are very earnest in our efforts Yeah, but isn't it a little bit like the foxes guarding the henhouse, right? How are the technologists going to actually change the technology when we come from that orientation ourselves? And I was I was realizing that as we were having that conversation that that all of us were coming from a very technological orientation and not from outside of that and one of my particular You know kind of bugs or features is that I come from the humanities You also studied music and we come from places outside of technology and so we have a different perspective on the technology and how to build it and Really what we're talking about actually many layers up above The feature set of the software that we're we're building what we're actually talking about is the reality We're talking about the technique. I call it the technique I've been reading recently a bunch of Italian philosophers Francesco Bifobarati and Federico Campania who talk about the technique and the technique as I understand it comes also partially from the idea of Of how everything in the world everything that we see around them the chairs We sit on the the floor beneath us the ceiling the very trees that are in nature have become as Heidegger says in his essay questions concerning technology standing stock Standing stock everything is standing stock Trees are not trees. The forest is not the forest. It's standing stock. It's waiting there with You know technological use and that he says I think it's very interesting. He says that technology itself is not inherently Technical it's not technological. It's this idea of Being there waiting and being seen as and having a use as only these things Such as standing stock human beings are just their potential labor and the thing that's happened to us Is that we have become? As is dictated by the world around us and look at look at the world around you right now And look at the things that you see and look at the lights in this room and the You know everything the people around you and the conversation that's having a stage and the screens that it's also being projected upon All of this is the technique and we are in it We are completely immersed in it and the thing to remember about it. It isn't constructed reality It is a recently constructed reality and such as a changeable reality It is something that we ourselves invented and we ourselves can reject and you know, for example Ursula Le Guin the science fiction writer We both love you know, you know, she writes that Capitalism in our world seems as if it isn't an inevitability. It is absolutely inescapable. It's everything that we do It's everything that we see around us It is why we do the work that we do it's the the you know, reason we design all that software that we design I'm a venture capitalist myself and She said that it seems as if it is that way, but so was once the divine right of kings Mm-hmm. How do we change this reality? I know you have some ideas about this Just a simple 20-minute conversation One of the things thinking about the way the technology is affecting humanity now, right? Like we're not We're a complicated species like we're not exactly. Oh, did I disappear? Hello Can you hear us? Can you guys hear or did I just disappear? Can you hear us? No No, okay, we've gone offline. Well, this is great now. We can talk about all the real thing. Oh, here we go um Thinking about the way that technology affects humanity What is it that you're saying? Yeah Humanity is not we're a complicated species like we are not purely good. We're not purely evil and The environments that we live in dictate so much about our behavior. Mm-hmm. I think we we have this I we're now we're now ten minutes in seven minutes, and we're gonna get to the free will conversation Which is like one of the things I think we know as designers is that human beings don't have as much free will as They think they do yes, and we're way more easily hackable. Mm-hmm so The Stanford Prison experiment. Mm-hmm my takeaway from that, right? This is where you like you take a set of Undergraduate and graduate Stanford students you randomly split them one group becomes a Prisoners the other group becomes prisoner guards And they had to stop the study a couple days in Because even though these students all knew that the other people were students the act of being in an environment Which feels oppressive the prisoner guards started to abuse strip search do all these terrible things to Dehumanize the prisoners and my takeaway from this is not that humanity is a terrible race My takeaway is that people by and large Operate in the environment that they're given and they just sort of like take the path of least resistance We act the way that we're sort of expected to and the so then I think about like the technique. Yeah, this is like It's sort of like building a garden You can't control any individual human being or any visual plants like Progress how it blooms but you can certainly affect the how nice a garden is to be in you can affect the overall structure And when I think about how do we build? technology that Understands that we as human beings are very persuadable and manipulatable Right all it took so 55% of plastic surgeons in the US Now say report having seen patients that come in and ask to look like their selfie filters All it took to get this was a couple of like buttons and a counter And showing those images to other people to get soulful validation to climb so far down people's brain stems That they're willing to go under the knife and change how they physically look To look more to more like the thing that our technology tells them that they wanted you and I think that's sort of What you sort of mean about that like the technique is that we live in this invisible sphere of identity and influence that we Both feel that it's inevitable. It's just how things are and yet can change so quickly if we if we if we here's the thing That I'm actually questioning. Okay, is the inevitability of this I hear this over and over again, and I hear everybody say well It's a done deal. Yeah, it's already happened. There's no escape We're in it, right? How do we how do we you know ever escape it? We don't right? Do you believe that I mean because I actually don't believe that I mean I'm actually very skeptical about that and everybody always says that yeah, well that ship is already sailed Yeah, that's already done and and to me I'm a born disrupter Right, I just I just I just just just like the status quo Whatever the status quo is and this was you know when I started my career or whatever that was 20 years ago or more I I Enjoyed I have you know as we kind of have previously discussed Have a have a great love for kind of Identifying kind of what's wrong with the current reality and then trying to trying to disrupt it Right, I think that that is the common tendency among a lot of the people that are in the audience here today And the people that work in technology is that there's a certain attraction to the idea of disruption Yep, right and that we have the ability to actually change things, but you know it does seem as if this has been a fairly Not very well thought-up disruption, right? It's been kind of very Let's say move fast and break things kind of kind of disruption and you know as we've as we've we've seen amply Demonstrated Things have been broken. Yep. Well, I think back to other times when those way completely great things are not inevitable And I think the one of the saving grace is here It's like the future we're moving towards is one that I don't think very many people want to have happened No, and you know there have been other times when there's this kind of like game theory, right? Because we're in this weird game theory around like capturing human attention actually you asked me When a while ago like why is it that we systematically abuse animals? in factory farms and Yeah, and I think the answer there Originally, oh, maybe it's in the Enlightenment thinking and it's like a transcendence and like a sentence of man over animal We like no actually this much simple It's just the game theory of the cultures that out competed other cultures are the one that Learned to use animals as resources to exploit and it's the same kind of game theory going on here now Which is what companies are now out competing all the other companies the ones that have greater than 50% Of the like stock market value in the US Oh, these are companies that are learning to use human beings and our attentions at resources to exploit getting back to the Heidegger point. Yes. So when is this kind of game theory happened before well actually? slavery Had the same kind of game theory where the British Empire couldn't step off of slavery Because if they're like if we do that well France's economy is just going to surge ahead Huge competitive advantage. So it's impossible. How could we possibly do this thing? And when? When Great Britain did step off the slavery Trainership they had to sacrifice 2% of their GDP for 60 years But the way they did it is they ended up being a human rights issues a thing that everyone said this is now Morally repugnant. This is not the way you treat human beings And so we can all agree to slowly step away at the same time I think the exact same thing is true now whether you think about it from like up here at the capitalist Sort of like stack or down here at the attention economy kind of stack week We can make that kind of like well, I do think that you know, we you know I come from the the the ancient days of the web 2.0 and and during that era of building Software for people we were building what we thought of and what we considered to be building was online communities Yeah, and and you know, you know as they came to be called social media as they came to be Attentioning gathering devices as they came to actually be very exploitive. Yeah You know in their in their outlook a lot of that was lost and I I do think that that core of what I what I saw as a culture of generosity in the very early days of the internet and a very collaborative community oriented participatory non-passive Participation and the building of cultures. Yeah is something that you know I think was really built in in the early days of the internet We saw that I saw that and you know the the well right the kind of the Howard Reingold Stewart Brand era of the internet and kind of subsequent to that and I think that it was only in I would say the past I actually I actually kind of Myself peg There are a lot of there are a lot of wrong turns along the way and I think that that you know as we kind of saw You know especially social media and and you know Twitter and Facebook especially become dominant that the point at which it turned Was the activity feed? Actually, this is this is actually what I what I think it happened was when it was sorted by attention That to me was the crucial point at which things went wrong and that you could buy your way Into someone's attention that could be Advertisers or it could be foreign governments and so I I I Really see some of these Being dependent on business models. Yep. I see a lot of them You know in the early days of Flickr when we were building that it was entirely paid for By subscription and one of the things that's happened right now is that Flickr has been a Sold to it was it belonged to yahoo and then subsequently to Verizon and then became part of smug mug is now going back to a Subscription model and very clearly is stating We are not gonna harvest and sell your data. You are not a product to be sold You know, it's it's an interesting it's returning to that and I was very happy to see that It makes me wonder as we move with Selling I really like your point selling brand is almost identical to selling ideology Mm-hmm. It was pretty much inevitable as you started to step down that path of selling attention that we would have state actors and foreign actors Vying to Essentially, I think of it as a drift attack. They find what actually in the last US election I think this is fascinating the 2018 one the 2016 Russia did a lot of content creation In 2018 they stopped doing that. They're like actually it's even more effective to find people's positions whether it's black lives matters or the women's March and just Extremize those views to take them and push them even further further. Yes. They work in the tension economy to create a greater divide Exactly. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you know what I'd like to like to talk a little bit about is Ways out like the paths or the islands in the technique that that serve humanity in a way that Is not immediately obvious I think to a lot of people especially those of us who work in the industry and are surrounded every day with you know all of our multiple screens and Devices and all of that kind of thing and I'm actually gonna I secretly Hid a little piece of paper in my pocket and I have a quote that I'm gonna read so this is This is what I call Darwin's regret and I think that it's a regret that a lot of People who work in the sciences and technology share. Yeah, and this was written by Charles Darwin in a letter to a friend Towards the end of his life My mind has changed during the last 20 or 30 years Now for many years. I cannot endure to read a line of poetry I have also almost lost my taste for pictures or music My mind seems to have become a kind of machine for grinding out general laws from large collections of facts Hmm if I had my life to live again I would have made a rule to read some poetry and listen to some music at least once every week the loss of these tastes is a loss of happiness and Many and may possibly be injurious to the intellect and more probably to the moral character By enfeebling the emotional part of our nature. Hmm. I'm Wow, I'm reminded of the there's a Peruvian phrase Which is? sickness is the inability To appreciate the beauty of a flower Yes, and these things actually feel very sympathetic. That's very very very similar and I do think that You know we come from the valley and of course see as I read a psychologist describe it so much success and so little happiness. Yeah, and My my orientation and my back. I'm actually a kind of an accidental technologist I was I was originally studying Renaissance literature when I accidentally Fell into the tech industry being in San Francisco in the mid 90s which is a kind of a Irresistible attraction and and and fascinating and it was it was very clearly the creation of new worlds But I think now You know so many years later we can see the danger of what of what we have become and you know I originally I originally came out to California to get a PhD and in basically I studied Shakespeare's sonnets Was my my main area of study and we we Somehow have have lost the ability to see that you were I remember we were having a conversation previously I'm producing an upcoming podcast and One of the things that you said really Terrified you is that people started talking about post nature.  We're saying we're sitting here on the evergreen stage, which is Kind of it's kind of fascinatingly kind of pseudo nature In the midst of the technique, yeah One of the most The moment when I knew humanity in some ways to just jump the shark if you will Mm-hmm, or San Francisco at the very least was there's a while maybe three years ago four years ago where every bus in San Francisco Had a beautiful picture of nature And then the slogan was go visit your screensaver The pain in that yeah, it's pain where once again this goes back to like the technic or the sorrow Yeah, it's which is our image of what the natural world is Yeah, comes now by the thing that we stir out every day and that shines a blue light in our eyes Yeah, yeah, blue lighting. Yep lighting and and you know, one of the things about You know, I think living in the technic is that We we can we can just so easily step out of it, right?  We just kind of like walk out on the streets to me is like one of the like there's a kind of You can call it cultural gas lighting that I think we as technology companies do but yeah the whole attention of Connie Facebook YouTube and here here is sort of like the fundamental lie or the abuse which is The simplest version of it is to say, you know, they put hundreds of engineers behind every screen We have the smartest supercomputers that we then sick on trying to find the content that'll keep you around But when you're addicted, it's your fault Yeah, and yeah worse like yeah, we just we're told that we get like we are just given what we want when we open up our Facebook news feed or when we see YouTube recommendations It's just feeding us what we want and there's like a fundamental bug in this just the the thought processes of The epistemology of like that word want because it's not what we want No, what we can't help but look at and there's a kind of praying on our neuroplasticity that's going on here Like we can't humans like we have it's an instinct hacking. We can't help Yeah, but look at a car crash when it's basically like a security exploit exactly is basically what it is exactly It's like a biological security explain and you know, here's the thing that I have I have found really interesting is that I when you think about what Robots what what technology with software what computers can do What it actually excludes are the things that humans in particular and especially can do which is have compassion Have emotion fall in love. Yeah Care for one another and all of these things are not accomplishable or achievable or by machines or Measurable by machines. They're they're non-numeric and It was interesting. I read it. I read an article that was Basically saying that you know an AI dominated future is interestingly a feminist future, which I thought was interesting because Qualities that are are most frequently attributed to women. Yeah, all of those things human connection Compassion care. Yeah The teaching professions nursing You know, you know, are things that are not You know, they're like, you know Anybody who's been in the uncanny valley of being served by a robot Which which is probably happening somewhere here on the floor of slash I'm sure that opportunity is available to all of us right now is is You know, it's it's very clear what it is not So what it is not is those things that are special to us so I hear there's like this trope of Empathy is one of those special things that only humans do I'm really worried that that's another case of humans liking to think we're special But actually my hunch is that empathy is going to be one of the biggest backdoors into the human mind So here's some art that I've been thinking about doing. Yeah And it sort of plays on the idea of like How hackable are we? How readable are we?  Actually, you should all do this find somebody in the audience and just eye gaze with them for like two minutes It's super uncomfortable. There'll be lots of emotions that come up and your faces will start to like will align and eventually They'll like they'll be doing the same face at the same time And just like if you smile You get happier if you force yourself to like frown you get sadder. Yeah So imagine the AI sort of like you do it your eye gaze for a little bit until you like it catches you And you're doing the same thing and then it just starts drifting you very slowly towards some emotion happiness Sadness kindness It it just well Facebook like the Facebook researchers were already doing this to us It's true But at the text level and at the image level yeah, and here's like we can just hack some of like right we can hack mirror neurons Sure, and the idea being like Well, I think there's a bunch of fun things you can play with this once you have it But yeah empathy isn't I think just a thing that humans can do You know the thing yeah, here's the thing is is there should be some kind of how you're the gas in your house Has an added stink So that when you have a gas leak, you know it because otherwise you can't smell it and you would just perish Unvenos yourself. It seems as if these systems should have some kind of stink That's added to them. Yeah, so that you're aware when you are communicating with an AI and have the potential to be manipulated agreed that's a great idea it's sort of like the The blade runner law. Yes. Yeah. Yes Blinky lights Okay, that's it for us. Yep. Thanks everyone. Thanks everybody


Repairing a liquid evening Mulwain Private Property Family. I'm Marta Shingange, your guest host for the special edition of the Private Property Podcast. Thank you for choosing us on this Tuesday, and a warm welcome to all our viewers on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram. On these same platforms, we bring you awesome shows that suit your every need, your taste, and choice as you venture through property investment. Our 8 p.m. lineup starts on Mondays with Chad on the Homebuyers Show. Who comes in again on Fridays? Here you can marvel and possibly buy some of the most beautiful properties in the market. All your agricultural inspiration and insights, Bali is on Tuesdays and Thursdays with the farming podcast. SD comes in on Wednesdays with incredible stories of people who have taken that first step into buying, into building legacies through property in the first-time homebuyers show. A special welcome to all the queens of our private property community. We hope you've had a beautiful women's month. And of course, we are still in the mood of giving away lots of cash to you, our valued fans, as a small token, but heartfelt of saying thank you for being part of our family. So if you haven't entered the competition yet, please do so quickly. Find a post that has been pinned on our Facebook page and comment with the following hashtags. It's hashtag one million followers, hashtag 10,000 comments, and hashtag 5,000 shares. To tonight's cash prize is at a record 3,500 rents, and we will announce the winner during the show. Remember, you have to be watching this podcast live to claim the prize. So good luck fam. Now, I am incredibly excited about this evening's special podcast as we wrap up the awesome month we've had celebrating women in property and agriculture. And what other great way than to close off with the gorgeous queens of private property who bring you three of our shows. So really well done to private property for putting women in the lead. So it's three ladies out of the four shows that we have. So that is quite pretty awesome, if I'm not saying. This evening, I am having tea. So here's my tea with a queen of property, Uzamantunga Kumalo, who is the host of the private property podcast. Who's seat I am warming this evening. And of course, we have our award winning farming queen, Umbalino Ako, who does the farming podcast and the vivacious queen, Esti Klassen, the host of the first time home buyers show. So a cozy high tea would have been awesome, but then COVID-19 happened. So we are doing it virtually. These ladies need no introduction. They are on our screens on Monday to Friday, bringing us insight on property and farming, and farming from the comfort of our own homes. So I am really privileged to be in conversation with these queens to reflect on women's man. So help me welcome queens Zama, Bali, and Esti. Welcome queens. Hi Martha, thank you so much. It actually feels strange to be a guest on my show. You're doing an amazing job. I'm sure I speak for the, you know, for the other ladies and they'll speak shortly that this is going to be fun. It's going to be a very different experience to what all three of us are used to. You know, we're used to anchoring our own shows. So it's going to be very interesting to be on the other side of what we do every single evening. Absolutely, I can only imagine. Hello, Bali. Good evening, Martha. How are you doing? It's awesome to be here. I'm awesome. Yeah. Great, great to know. I'm looking forward to our conversation this evening as well as chatting to Esti and Zama. Yeah, I'm quite thrilled and excited. Probably not as excited as I am. So welcome. And last but not least, Queen Esti, welcome. Good evening to the viewers. Thank you so much, Martha, for hosting us. It is weird having you on Zama's show because I've spoken to Zama as a guest on one of our shows, but this is something different. Also very excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. I must say it's quite exciting. Really big shoes to fill, but I hope I'm not disappointing with Zama. You're not. You're doing a great job.  You're doing an absolutely incredible job. And I'm sure the viewers at home will attest to this. So do give some love to Umar that down here below. I know that she might feel pressure, but she's doing such an incredible job already. Thank you so very much, ladies. I really, really appreciate it. It's really big shoes to fill. Now, ladies, let's get onto it. I can't wait for us to get cracking on our conversation this evening. You know, for the past month, I can't believe that it really has been a month. We have been glued to our screens every night, watching you, interacting with some of the most brilliant women in South Africa. But this evening, of course, you are in the hot seat. So we are really grateful for this opportunity to tap into your minds about women in agriculture and property. And of course, I will then start with Zama. Zama, you have had an incredible journey.  I know you keep it very close. You share bits and pieces here and there. And you have really posted incredible women from all facets of property, from commercial to speaking to land ladies. You've done it all. So in your journey, what do you think, as women, we can do to support each other in this journey? Thank you so much for the question, Martha. You know, it's interesting, because I've been reflecting a lot about that, especially now during Women's Month, right? Because it's one of those questions that we get asked a lot during Women's Month. How can we as women pull each other up? How can we make sure we take each other on the journey as much as possible? And I think, firstly, I want to acknowledge that we're doing that, right? We are doing that in different industries, so not just in real estate or in agriculture. We're doing that across the board. We're doing that in our homes. We're doing that with our friends. And so in many ways, really as women at different levels and in different ways, we do hold each other up. We do support each other. We do provide the emotional support. Sometimes, oftentimes the financial support, you know, the intellectual support that we need in each other's lives. So before we can even talk about what more we can do, I think it's so important to acknowledge that we already do that. And we don't just do it professionally. We do it even in our private spaces, with people who are also not necessarily acquainted with us or have close relations with us. I think what we can do better, I actually want to flip the script slightly, I think what we can do better and should do better is providing better support for ourselves. I think as women, we spend so much time giving and spend so much time being there for people, being there for our loved ones, showing up at work, wanting to do your best at work, wanting to be a good mother, wanting to be a good sister, a good girlfriend or fiancee or wife, that we don't equally give ourselves that kind of attention, that kind of care. And we don't realize, Ubuddi, not paying ourselves first, not taking care of ourselves first, whether it's professionally or in any other way is to our own detriment. And I mean, we're seeing, and this is one of the things that I've tracked, we're seeing a large percentages of women in general and black women in particular, for example, who are getting admitted to hospitals because of stress-related things. I myself speak about lining up in hospitals far too many times because of our stress. And it really is because we're not taking care of ourselves first. I think for me, this women's month and beyond, the big message is take care of yourself first, support yourself first, realize what you need first, ask for the help, learn to ask for the help. We're very easily available to help Abhan do and show up for friends and family, but we don't do that for ourselves and we don't ask when we need it. But then my big thing now is self-care is important. And I think the more of that we're able to do, the more we'll be able to show up for our friends and family in different spaces, whether it's personal or in a professional context. Now, that is so profound, Zama, because I think as women, we are naturals, right? So we used to giving first and giving of our everything before we look after ourselves. And that is so important. I like what you're saying because at the end of the day, you cannot pour into others from an empty cup. So you must feel yourself first before you can pour onto other people. So that is absolutely awesome. I really, really can resonate with that. And now let's move over to the queen, who recently celebrated 50 episodes of the first time home buyer's show. Estie, congratulations once again, ma'am. Thank you so much, Ma'am. That was absolutely awesome. That's a great milestone. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm just waiting for 100 episodes now. You know, we can't wait. Yeah, yeah, it's been absolutely awesome, awesome. And you've interviewed young entrepreneurs, people who are really just starting out. It must be quite inspirational. So, and also recently during this women's month, particularly the women that we have had on a show, they're absolutely incredible. I was sitting and I was going, wow, my goodness. I have really been amazed. What would you say are some of the key lessons that you have taken away from those ladies that you have been in conversation with during this time? I want to emphasize again, when you say that they're younger than a lot of young people come to my show, and even younger than me, and it is extremely inspiring to hear these stories of young property investors, male, female, who are just taking that leap of faith. And that's something that I echo quite often in the show. But for me in particular, like with regard to women's month, I've had four powerful women on the show this month. And the most important thing in the lesson or the key things that I take away from this is that anyone can do it, right? And that was what I tried to show the viewers at home with the first time home by a show. You can look, you can sound, you can sound like someone, but you too can do it. And that's what's so important about sharing these personal stories with people at home because that is what I aim to do. And I think one, another big lesson is that mistakes do happen. And exactly what Zama said, I want to echo on that as well, is that when we work on ourselves, it's easy to not beat ourselves up about these mistakes, especially in the property industry. A deal can go wrong.   That was my biggest fear. And I think that that's another stereotype that we need to break as women in the property industry. But yeah, those are some of the very important things that I learned this past month. Great stuff. For your show, it's absolutely awesome. And I hope our viewers do get to watch it. So don't just watch this podcast as it comes in on Wednesdays. You've got to watch it because you'll never be the same. After that show, you just want to say, I'm going to do this. You know, you're just getting that push and it's absolutely beautiful. So to all our viewers, that is the show to watch. Now let's chat to Mbali. Mbali, agriculture is still a pretty much male dominated industry. And honestly, we are really inspired by what you have been doing. It's absolutely incredible. Your achievements, they really are humbling. We're in Bogota without a doubt. So Mbali, I would like to know from you, how are you paying it forward in terms of empowering other female farmers in this quite challenging and tough industry? Well, thank you so much, Martha, for those kind words. I do what I can at the best of my ability. However, as much as agri might be male dominated, there's still very much a huge presence of women across the board, not necessarily directly as farmers, but professionals working within the agri valley chain, you know, so that could be professionals in agricultural associations, in seed representatives as rather technical representatives, people working in processing, you know, value adding and retail, et cetera, I interact with women quite often in the space. But when you come into primary farming, indeed, I think the male, our male counterparts as farmers definitely outweigh the females, especially even at a success level, you know, obviously everybody has their own definitions of success. But when you check in the peri-urban areas and the rural areas, small holder farmers or small scale farmers are predominantly women, you know. I recently had a chat not so long ago with someone I admire in the sector and he was mentioning that, you know, in the old days when he grew up, all the men went to the city to work and search for gold, et cetera, and the woman was staying at home.  And those activities or initiatives pretty much fed the household. So what I do in the space, besides being a farmer, I do a lot of mentoring as well. Yes, to women and men, however, you know, but I'm not biased in terms of, you know, which gender I should mentor, because I think we need a lot of active participants, even from a primary level, as difficult as that may be, we need a lot of active participants in the agriculture, however, I do have a consulting company, an agriculture consulting company, which I'm so proud of and we're doing a lot of work empowering specifically women and youth in the space, because we have to be deliberate and bringing women to the fore. You know, we're sometimes undermined at the value in which we could bring to the sector and what we can achieve. And that's the personal journey that I've walked as well in the sector. So, yeah, I have a consulting company that focuses on women and youth. And specifically there, it's tailoring agricultural projects, you know, that suits the client's needs, whether it speaks to the ESD or CSI initiatives. And over above that, we bring opportunities that farmers, these women or youth, would not ordinarily find in the sector, we bring them forth where they could, you know, take advantage of these opportunities, because you often sit in boardrooms where people say, we can't find farmers, you know, but there's so many of us. So, over and above the consulting, I do a lot of mentorship as well. And yeah, I think just by virtue of being a woman in the sector, I hope I'm inspiring others who see my journey and know and as well as believe that they could too become successful in the sector. Oh, that's awesome. I think to that I will say, woman, you are out there, you are doing it, you're making us so proud.  Guess what? I now watch your show very passionately because I'm thinking, this is probably something that I can do.  Absolutely. I thoroughly support you going forward. Yeah, thank you. So ladies, you know that we have been running this awesome, awesome show. Tonight's cash prize, it's sitting at 3,500 reds. There's a lot of activity in the comments section. Our fans cannot wait to find out who is taking in. So it's been rolling over. I think this is the sixth a day, if I'm not mistaken. So without wasting any more time, let's find out who's the lucky winner of tonight's cash prize. And the 3,500 reds as selected by our random speaker goes to... At least I've got company today. I've got people I can be excited with. And the winner is Rachel Pillay. Congratulations, Rachel. We are crossing fingers that you are watching and you will claim the prize before the end of the show and do enjoy that cash prize. So ladies, let's get back into it. You know, we are quite busy. We're living quite busy lives. We are working full time. We are investing. We are running our entrepreneurship adventures and a whole lot of things.  Even talking about you ladies there, the three of you in the same space, but we just never have that time. So now that we have managed this evening to get you under one roof, although virtual roof, ladies, I would like to know what is the one thing? Rather, I'm giving you an opportunity to ask each other that one thing that you have really liked to know about the other. And this is how we're gonna do it. I'm going to have Bali first, asking Estee one burning question, that one thing that you would really love to know about Estee. You can ask her anything, the free for all this evening. Awesome, awesome. So Estee, my question to you is, how has your life changed since the pandemic started? So, yeah, one name, one pro and one con in terms of how your life has changed since the pandemic started. Sure, thank you, Bali. Wow, deep questions this evening. I think a pro would definitely be, I'm really just grateful for the fact that I'm here. There's an entire pandemic, there's this thing going around and I'm still safe. So that's definitely a pro. How it changed for me is just, I miss the human element, like Martha said, we have this opportunity to get to know each other, to be with people. I really miss that human interaction. So that's, yeah. And a con? A con, would definitely be sitting at home, being trapped in this square box. For me, I'm really an outdoor person like you Mbam. I want to go to the farm. I want to get my hands dirty. Yeah, yeah. Okay, thank you. So we really cannot hope, we really cannot wait for this pandemic to just go away so that we can go out there and meet IK. So yeah, let's see, let's remain hopeful that things are going to change soon. Now, Queen Esti, you've got Zama. Ask her one thing, anything tonight, anything goes. All yours. All your questions. All yours. Zama, are you ready? Yes, I'm ready. I hope it's an easy one. I'm ready, I'm ready. I think it's something you're gonna like. If anything, I think I know you now. Watching you every night. For me, I think, so you spoke a lot about earlier when you answered the first question about that woman, we need to take care of ourselves in order to pass on that nurturing quality that we have. And maybe I shouldn't, my question to you is actually three characteristics that you believe women need in order to thrive in the property industry, because we're here. But if you can't do three, let's do one because of time, that's my question. Thank you for that great question. This is one of those I wish I had in advance to get a sense of which three I'm gonna pick on. I think we'll see the big one is you need to have vision. And this is beyond even real estate. I think have a vision for firstly your life and it can change as it does. Sometimes you want to take a slightly different direction but have a sense of vision when you are leading your life and living your life that informs the different decisions that you make in different areas of your life. And it can be in real estate, it can be the kinds of friendships that you enter into and nurture, it can be the kinds of accounts you end up following on social media. So really have a vision about it. I think I'd say the second thing is be deliberate in the nature of the work that you do. I think right now when I look at the real estate sector is there are so many opportunities and so many kinds of opportunities. So it isn't just about, for example, buying a rental apartment or buying a house and converting it into a multi-late. There's so many types of things. I mean, one of my big fascinations in one of the businesses that I'm in is having a look at PropTech and what kind of PropTech, I'll say companies, do we need locally? And some can already be there at the markets and we just don't have them here. So there's a wide variety of things that are available there. So be deliberate when you do certain things because you're not spoiled for opportunities. And so whatever it is that you end up choosing to do, be deliberate about it. And then I think the third, I'll say, I guess characteristic is you kind of need a bit of a thick skin. And this is also, again, it's not something that's only about property. I think oftentimes we find ourselves in different communities where real estate investing is concerned and it can even be our community here on Facebook, for example, or other communities. I mean, I've seen different groups, our members of other different groups by virtue of meeting people in those respective groups doesn't automatically make them ethical people or people who might not, for example, scam you. So you need a thick skin.  It's not sufficient to be saying, oh, I'm not doing what I see on social media or I see her on a podcast or on a TV show, whatever the case is. So you really need to still do the basics. I think don't think seeing people on public platforms or even seeing people on the show is an automatic, yes, that person, I'm going to work with them without doing my research. So that requires a bit of a thick skin and sometimes you realize, oh, okay, maybe these people don't work, maybe this person works. I think really being careful of that is going to get you quite far.  I mean, these are the lessons that you keep on giving us every weekday. So they are now coming out of us like, it's become so natural, you do due diligence. So that's the boss with practicing all of these things. So that's quite awesome. Have a vision, just go out there, do it and keep at it. So now Zama, you now have the opportunity to ask a question and you can ask that question to Umbali. Umbali, so my question to Umbali, I won't make it about agriculture actually. I think Umbali, what would surprise people, what's something that would surprise people about you that we just don't know about you that once you share would probably surprise us a little bit. Wow. You're actually quite a shy person, very, very shy. Yeah, and I actually just don't like photos to be quite honest because I feel like the camera makes, the camera can like zoom into my life and tell me everything about my life that I don't wanna hear. But so yeah, I know you said one, but pretty much two, I suppose it's being shy and I don't like photos because cameras intimidate me. And I think that's a bit of an oxymoron because the work that I do, I mean, we're doing this podcast, you have to be on camera, you have to speak to an audience, but I think when I go into platforms like this, I pretty much remind myself that it's not about me. It's a people that want to hear the information, that want to hear what I have to say, that want to hear my story, and with friends or whatever, just having casual conversations. But truth be told, I'm very, very, I'm quite a shy person, very reserved. Now who would have thought? Hey, you don't look shy to me, but okay, now we know your secret. Absolutely, yeah. I think I hide it quite well. I was about to say the same thing. You absolutely do. So ladies, I believe the cash price has not yet been claimed. So Rachel, you do have really a few minutes to claim a price because we're going to wrap this up and the money is gonna roll over. Ladies, I really need to throw this one in. I know it's not part of the plan, but just a quick one, just humor me. SD, heels or sneakers? Definitely sneakers, Martha, come on, definitely. Really?  No, I do that for you, I do that for the viewers, but definitely sneakers. We feel so special. Okay, Mbali, shopping or sleeping? Oh, sleeping. I think that one, I saw that one coming. I saw that one coming. Zama, the mountain or the city? Oh, mountain. When you were saying mountain, I was like, oh, please don't pair it with the beach. But if it starts up between mountain and city, the mountain takes it any day. I mean, I usually have an annual pilgrimage to Lesotho to be in the mountains and breathe, you know, Lesotho air, which is nice, clean air up in the mountains. Yeah, the city, the city's great, but mountains will always win, always, always, always. Okay, we've seen that quite a lot on your social, on your socials. You can see you hiking all the time and doing all sorts of adventurous things. So yeah, that was also so good, Gabi. But ladies, it's really been super awesome spending time and getting to know you just a little bit better. May you really continue to be great inspirations to many of us. We are really looking up to you. We honor you for your phenomenal contributions in property and agriculture. We see you, we hear you. So here's to you, queens. Yes. Ah, cheers. Thank you so much, Mark. That is great to be able to have tea during the show. I was saying off air that usually, you know, during the show, I have notes and notes and notes and all sorts of things. So this was the first time I'm slightly more relaxed on my own show. It's quite refreshing and be able to actually just drink my tea nicely and not stress about it. There's usually not enough time to drink the tea during the show. I'll have it there. I'll sip while I'm chatting to the guests off air. But thank you so much for hosting us. You've done such an incredible job hosting us as we wrap up Women's Month. I think it was such a great way to wrap up Women's Month, especially because we wanted to speak to women the whole month and we did just that. So thank you very much for hosting us. Thank you. Thank you. It's been absolutely awesome having you. So really on that beautiful note, it's a wrap for this evening fam. Remember, excuse me, to catch summer tomorrow at 7 p.m. And yes, they will be coming through at 8 p.m. So do stay home and keep safe. Mixtlai Seiga, we're sending you lots of green hearts your way. So now let's walk over to the farming podcast with Mbali who is up next at 8 p.m. So from all of us, it's good night. Good night. Thanks. You know, I live in the city. I don't have a lot of space. Wanted to grow vegetables, but I don't have a lot of space for that. So I decided to go into the herds. And I had to go out and, you know, experience and get the opportunity to learn how to access the right, you know, most of the farm has to be the same. So it is basically just like everyday recipes. I just try to mix everything up. For example, one of the things that I have tried is that I've tried making. Firstly, it's very important to understand that the rental income of your property must be comparable to all the other properties in the area. Being a mentor, what does that mean for you? You know, being a mentor really is walking a journey with our mentees in terms of their businesses. So I work with... Here is a person who is advising clients on the more than likely their biggest financial investment that they're ever going to make. And when we talk about where we're putting our money and what the property market out there looks like, it's certainly a competitive one. And it's one where we need to know... Even post-COVID perhaps. But they want that fluidity of being able to be anywhere and not be tied to anything. That does not... And actually bias market with the interest rate being as low as it is. So anybody that can afford to buy, that's ranging, really. And also probably growing your property portfolio quite well as well. OK. So my thing is what I'm actually looking for really is apparently not. But the changes are all really positive changes. I know people have been a little bit unsure. It is such a broad kind of topic. When I like to talk about urban development, Young Professionals Forum was started in 2020. But it actually comes from university or the consolidation of university. When a seller wants to sell their property, they need to think that everything that they are going to make out of the proceeds are based on... Yo, I guess we've certainly come a long way in summer. I mean, there were times when women did not even have rights to own property, you know. And I mean, look at us now. Commercial property, HETI, covers quite a lot of segments. So it covers offices as you've saw rightfully in. When we're talking about skilled artisans, we're talking about people who are carpenters, tool makers, fitters, joiners, mechanics, you know, plumbers, et cetera. Those are the kinds of people that...


It's a great opportunity for our school. A lot of kids love the Wanderers. We have a lot of members at our school. They love soccer. Very competitive kids. It's great for those kids who don't get an opportunity to go and see the Wanderers or meet their heroes. When teams like the Wanderers come out, it's fantastic because the kids get to meet their heroes. They get to see them beyond just being on the field. They get to see them beyond being on just their TV and see that they're actually real people that they can aspire to be like.


Computer security, computer security, cyber security, or ID security is the protection of computer systems from theft award damage to their hardware, software or electronic data, as well as from disruption or misdirection of the services they provide. The field is of growing importance due to increasing reliance on computer systems, the Internet and wireless networks such as Bluetooth and WIFI, and due to the growth of smart devices, including smartphones, televisions and the various tiny devices that constitute the Internet of Things. Due to its complexity, both in terms of politics and technology, it is also one of the major challenges of contemporary world.


All right, it's Tuesday at 10, I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech, more specifically, this is what? Think Tech Talks. And we're talking with Patrick Sullivan, he's the CEO of Oceanit, down the block, the other end of Fort Street Mall. And we get to see him here once in a while and we get to look at his book, which is relevant to today's show. It's called Intellectual Anarchy. So welcome to the show, Pat. Nice to see you smiling face. Thank you and thanks for having me. No, it's an exciting time. I mean, obviously there's a lot of issues and challenges, but there's a lot of opportunities too. And I think it's important for the tech industry to have a voice that's relevant to how we build the future. And now is a really good time to talk about it. Well, you know, medicine, vaccines, therapeutics, all very important. And in fact, one of the headlines this morning was that Russia claims to develop, to have developed a vaccine without phase three testing. And there's a certain level, a high level of skepticism in the medical, the global medical community about that. But you know, the immediate problem is testing. In fact, I saw a very interesting piece on CNN just yesterday with Bill Gates. And he echoes that thought and he's putting money into this. And his idea is you really can't do much without testing. We have spikes all over the world now. And the way to deal with spikes is testing and tracing. So that's the immediate need. There's more immediate than anything else testing. And you're on it. I admire you so much for being on it, Pat. So you have this whole philosophy about intellectual energy. I wasn't kidding about the book at Oceanit. And you have this other philosophy about letting your scientists come together and express their innovation. And gosh, they come up with stuff. So tell us about the origin of your spit in the cup testing that was in the newspaper last week. Well, as I talk about in the book, you got to sort of step way back to what we call prerequirement. So right now you might say there's a requirement for a test, but a lot of the work started well in advance of that. I would go back to about six years when we started a new kind of artificial intelligence, human style intelligence. And we did some work with back then Office of Naval Research on this idea of small data, ambiguity, edge cases, things that machine learning is not good at, things that are more human style. Humans are good at those things. So we call it anthroponawetic artificial intelligence. So it's human style intelligence. So we started on that. And what began as maybe a kind of a crazy idea started to really bear fruit. We could do things. For example, we could look at malicious code before we knew it was malicious. Like for example, the zero day problem, right? So malware, you have an application on your computer it looks up on a table to find if somebody sending you something is on the table, that's how it recognizes malware. What we decided to do was to see if we could understand the intention of the software. So the intention of code, again, it's back to this human style AI considering code as a language. So we were really building what we now describe as a linguistic touring machine. So it's a computer, but it's using the fundamental idea of language and associating language with human intelligence. So the theory is that what makes humans intelligent is the ability to have language and to communicate in any language. So we said that on that course back then, looking at whether or not we could understand if code was malicious. Now, and that's in not just C++, but hexadecimal and machine language, all kinds of stuff. Turns out we could do a lot. And then about three years ago, we thought, well, what if you look at human genome you've got three billion base pairs with these letters. What if it's a language? What if it's not just a random string of things, but it actually is speaking about intention, together a program with DARPA actually. So once you do that, impossible to things that are bricks. There's these interesting puzzle problems and we got the break out. I'll walk through some of the things we did with that. Well, okay, that's a really remarkable way of looking at it. That's a different way of looking at it. And it does resonate to think that the genome and all the elements of the genome are a language and they're speaking to us and they're speaking to you. So you take that same concept and you apply it to the genome that we have. We have the genome of COVID and you look at what it says. What is it saying to you? Well, what it basically said was in our case we produced the grammatical interpretation and then we used that to create a computational model that said, okay, if I wanna produce a sensor, what sort of arrangement of a sequence and shape do I need to produce in order to create a molecule that is very unique to this virus that'll attach to it? And so you reduce the problem then to this question of, it's like a 3D printing machine that'll synthesize a molecule. And then of course you've gotta put indicator attachments, nanomaterials and other things on the molecule in order to turn it into a sensor. That's essentially what we did. So we took the work we did over the last six years where we were able to distill it down into the grammar of RNA, for example and produce a single-stranded DNA molecule using the same tools with a lot of iteration. So we've collaborated with the University of Hawaii, the Japson to synthesize and test.  That's what we did. So we took what was maybe two years of work and reduced it to a couple of months. There's a kind of social justice here. What I mean is the significant element of the coronavirus is it has these prongs that attach to human cells and it rides on those cells and then does destructive work. It's a Helen of Troy sort of thing where you attach and now what you're doing is you're doing the same thing to the virus. You're attaching your nano molecule to the virus and it's sending signals back to you. You're conceptually, it's very similar to what the virus is doing to us, to what you're doing to the virus. Yeah, well, that's true. So normally what happens in producing antivirals or sensors is you try to discover something, sort of hunting and gathering where you go out and you look for it in the Amazon rainforest or the bottom of the ocean and you test it and that's what makes that problem pretty intractable because you might be lucky, you might be not lucky but we thought what if we could do it deliberately by design? So you think more like an engineer than just scavenging or randomly looking for something. We also include some of this work in, if you think of Darwinian evolution as these viruses evolve, they're developed and there's an efficient sort of kernel engine to what they do to become efficient. In this case, what makes this virus so dangerous and you have to give the virus credit is that it's very contagious in this asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic mode. So people don't know they have it and then they go out and they share it with everybody and it just spreads like wildfire. And that goes back to your earlier question about why is it tested, what Bill Gates is doing. But before we get to that, just to circle back to the book because the book, I kind of break down how we do this stuff. There's a chapter called left of boom but everybody focuses on the boom and that's the asymptotic spike that you see with growth. Everybody wants to see that hockey stick growth. Well, what we do is these basic fundamental science questions start way left of that. And what we did was kind of pre-requirement but we created a platform that we could then apply to a variety of things. In this case, we decided to really dig in and apply the tools we built to this question of the virus. And we thought we could do an antiviral but we thought first a test would be really helpful and we could do that pretty quickly and produce them pretty inexpensively. And I think that's the big issue is a fast inexpensive accessible test because the biggest challenge we have now is that people focus on the PCR test. PCR test matches a sequence with a sequence in a machine that amplifies a few strands of a virus. So from a forensic standpoint, it's a nice tool. If you're sick, you wanna definitively know what you got, it's a great tool. But when it comes to situational awareness, it's not the tool because you need lots of data. You need repeated data. So here we are and I guess we take a scraping or no, no scraping, you just spit and that assumes that the spit includes virus if you have coronavirus and you spit in a cup and now you have arguably the virus in the cup in your spit. How does the process work in general? How does the process work to put these molecules on the virus and then have the molecules sense the virus and send a message back so that we have some reliable way to determine there is virus? Yeah, so what we do that is we, in the cup, we have a reagent and the reagent, it's not that fancy, but we include materials that basically take, you know how you see these pictures of the spike protein and on the outside of the virus? It splits the virus open and inside are all these little particles called nucleocaps of proteins. There's maybe a thousand more times inside than on the outside. That gives us a little more sensitivity. And then what we do is in the cup with a reagent, we also have some little nanoparticles and those nanoparticles are designed now with the reagent that's in the cup. And they hook on to, uniquely hook on to the nucleocapsid protein. So it's like a lock-in key and it only fits on this very specific design.  And so you get a red line. And that red line- You can see, you can see the line. Yeah, and that's it. So the idea is that it's a really easy thing. You don't have special handling. You don't have to refrigerate it. You can just bind it longs. It's not expensive. You have paper and plastic, of course, that costs money, labeling, all that kind of stuff. But to synthesize these molecules is not expensive. And then to, the reagent isn't really necessarily that expensive. It's very specific, of course, right? You have to have the right molecule, the right kind of nanomaterials to kind of put it together like a Lego kit. And once you do, so you have the molecule that's designed for the COVID and then you've got this other kind of Lego piece you put on, which is what gives you the red line.  And does the kit include the cup or is the cup any old generic cup? Well, you put the material in the cup before you spit into it or after, or it doesn't matter. So what we're doing right now, so some of the work with Queens, we put the reagent in the cup, it's not very much. It's a little plastic thing.  And right now we're using a straw to spit in the cup so you don't get spit everywhere. So there's all these little practical issues, but it's way easier than sticking a thing up your nose. And you can just kind of do this at home or you could, we envision this being something that you could simply test getting off an airplane or getting on an airplane and show people that you're not making other people sick because to the question of the issue that Bill Gates brought up. So when you're exposed to the virus, if you have adequate exposure, which is a question, so you gotta have enough viral material, then you're gonna peak in terms of expressing viral particles four to six days, we say five days. And you go up that curve, it's a really steep curve. So it turns out that the threshold for making people sick is roughly around one times 10 of the six viral particles. The limit of detection of a PCR test, which is very accurate, is probably one times 10 of the four viral particles. We're right around between one times 10 of the seven and one times 10 of the six.  And if you do this for several days in a row, we call it the aloha protocol. I love it. The aloha protocol, well, because it's not just enough to make a technology, but you have to operationalize it so you can impact humans and society to make everybody, easily have access to use it in a way to the benefit of everybody. When you follow this protocol, you can eliminate infectiousness in the whole community.  But what you would do, for example, Hawaii's a great place because we're surrounded by a moat. Everybody has to fly in. So everybody walking off the airplane, spits in this cup, do a test. If it comes out zero or clean, you're free to go. But for the next five days, you test, you spit in the morning. And if you're clean, you go, you take a little picture with it on a mobile phone and it just collects that data. After five days, you didn't bring in anything over on that airplane, even if you started out on the airplane without anything and somebody was sick next to you, you didn't pick up anything. You're not contributing to anything. But I guarantee you're gonna find that person who tests because when you either on day two, so you don't know when they were exposed. So within a couple of days of being exposed, you're gonna produce enough viral particles that we're gonna pick that up. So it makes it very easy to catch it. It's much, much cheaper, faster. You get a result in like 10 minutes. And you know right away what you got. So it's just, where does the red line appear? In the cup or you have to pour it out? No, it's on a little piece of paper. And so there's a little, we call it a cassette, but it's a little piece of, it's a pregnancy kit is what it looks like. A lot of people, a lot of women know a pregnancy kit. Maybe a lot of guys don't.  And they may, in the case of pregnancy, they may urinate or do something on it. In this case, you just spit. And the spit with this, you know, you just shake it a couple of times, pour it in, and it just works like that. So it's very easy to use. And the nice thing about it is that there's a line that says the test is working and then there's a line that says you're positive or not. And that's it. So it becomes really easy to track. So, and your point about taking a picture with your smartphone, you can verify and you can verify it with third person what you're doing. So if the requirement, the regimen is that you take the test in the morning, then, and your obligate is to send in proof of it, you can do that with your smartphone. That's really great. But, you know, question comes though, I mean, we live, we seem to live these days in a world of FDA approvals. And when it comes to testing, you know, the FDA takes a long time. I'm not sure what they're looking at because there's no damage to be done by the tests you describe. You know, that's impossible. All you're doing is spitting in a cup. So the question is, what does the FDA have to look at? I guess it's efficacy. And how long is it gonna take the FDA to approve this to the point where you can go to market? Well, very good question. FDA has been really supportive. We've been talking to them for almost two months. We started out by explaining this idea of creating, we're kind of creating new categories called an antigen test, but what we're doing, nobody's doing. And whereas, for example, antibody tests, you have to have something produce an antibody, a bug or an animal or something is what they typically do. This is synthesized. It's like a 3D printer. So they're telling us they can turn it around in 72 hours. And what they did was, they actually sent us all the documents for the clinical test. So you have to prove specificity and sensitivity.  Then there's another provision that's to have a test that doesn't require going to a lab. This is an important distinction because they literally have a special category just for this. And the FDA point of contact has been really supportive. So they sent us a bunch of materials, but basically they said, look, you gotta make sure it's usable by at least one more language like Spanish speaking. You've got to have some demographic variability. So small, young people, old people, that kind of thing, usability. So the basic three things we need to show, which we've already laid out a plan and are pretty well on that is sensitivity, specificity and usability. Usability is just so you can sell it over the counter at longs. You can have it at schools. You can have it at the airport. Anybody can get it. And the key to doing this and are really getting the infections, the virus under control in a community is a lot of testing that's accessible to a lot of people. So it has to be simple and fast. It has to be available. And in order to really drive it into, drive the virus into the dirt, you've got to collect five samples every day. And if you do that, you're going to find out. Yeah. What about the cost? You said it was cheap. And I've heard, you know, for the, what is it, the other kind with the swab up the nose, cost $150. My guess from what you said is this is way less than that. And the average person can afford to pay, although I don't know, maybe there's a system where the government can pay. After all, this is all for the benefit of the community. And frankly, I think the government should pay. So there should be no barrier, none at all to taking these tests. Well, the key, like what we've, we've actually had that conversation with some of the folks in the state, as we said, the big cost is setting up. We want to set up manufacturing right here in Hawaii because- Great, Pat. That's great. You can synthesize the molecule right here. You've got to control the room. So you have to have a clean room. But these are all, we're doing all this downtown. We just need to scale it up. So the going out is 20 bucks, but we think we could drive that down by volume. And we suggested that the state acquire a bunch of them and that would help us get started with actually manufacturing right here and training up a bunch of people. So you figure everybody getting off the airplane does this. We've been contacted by some of the airlines. They want to do it before they get on the airplane. Sure. Contacted by restaurants and hotels. They really want to do this because they want to make sure that they've got a safe environment and that they can operate. And what this will do, this will significantly reduce the risk so that, I mean, effectively you can drive infectiousness in the community to pretty close to zero. This is so good. Oh, let me hear, there's a couple of questions came in. So let me ask you, the people are watching Pat, telling you now, what can the public do to help support Ocean's development of COVID-19 testing vaccine or testing or vaccine? What's your answer to that? I think I'd suggest you let the governor and your elected officials know that you think this is important. See, there's one of the big shifts in mindset here is one strategy is you just kind of wait in the dark and hope that something's gonna change or that hope is on the way. The other is we actually build a solution and we solve the problem and we go, what I call from Hawaii to the world versus from the world to Hawaii. And so we think that this is an important time to show that we can make a difference from Hawaii and it's a problem we can bring to the world because we've looked at and we've been in discussion with a bunch of Scalop partners, but around the planet there's a need for something like this and if we can do this in scale, we can reduce the cost but it's a really good opportunity, I think, to demonstrate how Hawaii can make a difference with science and technology, with innovation in a way that's, you know, back to the book you brought up earlier, intellectual anarchy. It isn't anarchy, there's a process that goes from ideas, programs, projects, products and I kind of lay out the whole thinking in the book so everybody can see it. But the point is there's a way to build an industry to make world a better place, to create really good jobs and this is one of those opportunities. Yeah, a couple of loose questions here. Does the FDA participate in the setting of the price or is that up to you, the state, the market cost? How do you see that unfolding? Well, they don't dictate the price, but I think it's our responsibility to make it as affordable as possible because I think there's a duty to, I mean, if we can do something to reduce suffering and make the world a better place, I think that's what we need to do. So what we're looking at is making sure that we can afford to do it, setting up the machines and the infrastructure to manufacture and building that next generation of people that can be part of an emerging medical industry, what we refer to as digital medicine. So it goes way beyond just COVID-19. Yeah, well, okay, so then you have, I know you have laboratory space, I've seen it, I've toured it. And I suppose you can start there, but the thing is that when you give a vaccine, where are there seven billion people in the world and every person gets at least two shots of the vaccine, that's the way it seems to be shaping up. So that's seven times two, it's 14, 1.4, wait, 14 billion shots. Okay, but when you're talking about a test, when you're talking about a virus that is out of control, when you're talking about all these people around the world that are infected, then it's way more than 14 billion. And in your laboratory on Fort Street Mall, can you make 14 billion times five, or whatever, seven billion times five? That's a good question. No, so what we're doing is the plan is to produce here in Hawaii right now about 25,000 tests a day. But according to a study at Harvard a little while back, they said, you need just for the United States, maybe five to 20 million tests a day. So we've actually talked to and started collaborating with some Scalop partners, companies in Korea, companies on the US mainland, there's some companies in Europe. And so the idea would be to set them up with the molecule and the process from what we're doing here. Again, because there's nothing quite like what we're doing that is that easy for them to replicate. Lateral flow assays, what the test format is, that is understood. There's lots of little details. So the thought was, get it going here in Hawaii, get this protocol rolled out.  And these other Scalop partners working. So for example, Japan is interested because they've got the Olympics coming up. You could test everybody walking in the door. You could test all the Olympians. The visitor industry, travel industry, think about it. You've got 300 million people working in the travel industry, 10% are global GDP. It's not just Hawaii. So the entire travel industry can benefit from it. And the thought is to make it so that it's affordable so that people can use it. The scale is enormous. So we would need lots of collaborating partners to do this.  So we're just trying to get it bolted down here in Hawaii. And then the Scalop will go real fast. I'm so impressed with this. It's like all of the threads of ocean it for the past. Oh my gosh, it must be 40 years already. You've been working on science and this really brings it all together. But I have one more question that is, it seems clear that Hawaii hasn't done much of a job on tracing. In fact, the country hasn't done much for job on tracing. I don't know if there's any standard protocol on tracing, standard training on tracing, standard way of writing the data down and then using the data to actually take action on the tracing. And one of the elements that would make, the spit in the cup test so powerful to stop the virus before a vaccine is developed, even before a therapeutic is developed is tracing. And there you are, you're into information systems, you're into design thinking and artificial intelligence. I took a class, you know, once from you guys in artificial, it taught me a lot. So the question is, is ocean it thinking? Are you thinking about a tracing system, which is information technology and artificial intelligence? It's the other hand clapping on the spit in the cup test, isn't it? It is. And we've tried to kind of stay in the background on that issue, but we actually built one of the first global space situational awareness systems, it's called an SSA. And so the suggestion was to apply the same basic thinking for a contagion situational awareness. Using of course mobile phone as a collector of data, but you need to drive it all to a command center so that you actually know where you've got these outbreaks and you know where to put the resources and you know where you've got the flare ups and you know where all these things are. So it becomes an efficient utilization of scarce resources to manage the risk and get people help that need it. And that also gives you an idea how to manage some of the hospital supplies and medical response and all those things. We've deployed a version of that with the actually the state civil defense for hurricanes, for we did a tsunami piece where you've got a mobile phone that becomes a collector, drives data to the command center. It goes to a central place, you put all that data together. We've built about six of those over the years, everything from transportation infrastructure and Amtrak, it all started with a space work. And when we built this global center to track space 24 seven, all of space and drove data to a special place in a mountain which I won't get into. But we literally invented this category a long time ago, almost 30 years ago. So that's the kind of thing the tool set that you would bring to this. So it isn't just training people to call up, that's part of it. But it's actually the efficient use of information. And then understanding from a geographic distribution standpoint, medical resource standpoint and all of the other resource, scarce resource standpoint how do you deploy it to really efficiently support and protect the community? You're also perfectly positioned for that. Pat, speaking on behalf of the state of Hawaii, let me say we are so damn proud of you. This will change the world. I hope you get the FDA approval really soon and that you can play this out the way we all want you to. Well, thank you. And one last comment is, although I'm kind of a spokesperson but the team that's involved is nothing short of remarkable. And they bring magic pretty much on a daily basis. So, and this rumor that you don't have talent in Hawaii is totally wrong. These are our local folks that most of them grew up here. Some of them have come lately but the level and quality of talent is just unbelievable. And so for me, I feel really fortunate to work with this really talented group of people. And we feel fortunate to have you in our community. Thank you so much. Pat Sullivan, Founder and CEO of Oceanit. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.


This episode is brought to you by DXRacer, the ultimate seat of choice to heighten your gaming experience. Are you going to a convention and want to be dressed as something awesome that everybody's gonna know and not something obscure? This is my top five list of costumes that kill it at conventions as crowd-pleasers. First, Mario Bros.  Yeah, this beloved classic is not only known by everybody at conventions, but has probably been played by everybody at conventions. If you're solo, you're sure to get crowd interaction, but if you have a whole group of characters, everybody picks someone and have fun running around all day long. I claim peach, I've got a fry and plank. Pan, pan, pan. Number two, Slave Leia. This is for the ladies out there, I guess. I guess it's more for the guys.  If it's a gaming convention, if it's a sci-fi convention, heck, if it's an anime convention. If there is one Slave Leia in the building, there's a group of guys in tow. You just follow them, they're like a pack. The costume is so iconic and has been done by so many cosplayers that now they're starting to take other characters and put them in Slave Leia costumes. Example, I saw a rogue Slave Leia. She had like the X for X-Men and everything, it was sweet. Third, Batman and Superman. Yes, I'm putting them into the same category, you can deal with it. The two main characters that always categorize DC and Marvel fans, pfft, they're always a win at conventions. And while movies like Avengers and X-Men have brought out all the other characters for people to love, Batman and Superman have always had their own animated shows, so you have a lot of young fans out there. And the old ones too, because we love you, because you're awesome.  Number four, Akira. This one is for the fellow anime fans out there rather than just myself. I'm throwing this one into the mix because it is possibly the most well-known anime of all time. And it's a movie, so you don't have to sit through like 30 episodes. While the movie was released decades ago, anime fans are really pumped because now, there's a chance of it being made into a live-action US movie. Thank you, Leonardo DiCaprio.  Fifth, maybe my favorite, robots and mechs. There are so many different costumes that fall into this category, but if you can turn yourself into something that is not human and well over six feet tall, I don't care what you're dressed as. You know why? Because you are going to get the thing cost players love more than anything. Lots of attention and photos. Lots of attention and photos. We live for it.  Mind you, if it's really well crafted and there's lights and anotronics and smoke coming out and everything, then yeah, we're gonna stay with you a lot longer than the cardboard guy. The point is everybody loves robots and mechs. Honestly, we don't even care what movie, what show, anything you're from. All we know is you don't look like Tony Stark and we love you and we just want to follow you around. Just remember to install lots of mini fans and a cup holder, because you're not going anywhere. Alright guys, that's it. I hope I gave you some ideas of characters that everybody loves that will get you out of that obscure bubble if you keep dressing as characters nobody knows. Till next week, leave me questions below and check out all the Link-C's. Link-C's? I like that. I'm Link-C's. Check out the Link-C's. Bye! Alright guys, so Tiffany is here. She's uh, oh, I guess Nora's allergic to Tiffany. Only good latex. This is what? Like the first time you've been here, like four weeks? Oh, she's missed me so much. But yeah, we're gonna record probably about like four different videos for impulse. Oh, a lot to do. And uh, yeah, get some work done today. Impulse is produced by the Freedom Network. Ever wanted to earn revenue from your videos? Freedom offers a great partnership program which includes access to hundreds of thousands of audio tracks, sponsorships with great partners, and most importantly a no lock-in contract. You can leave at any time for any reason. We accept everyone, both big and small. For more information, click here or visit the link in the video description.


You know, I did the show. It was cool. It was certain things I ain't really careful.  Yo, this party up, you didn't do your. Walk away contract, explain. Yeah, we on boss talk one on one. One on one. Yeah, we gonna talk. I want to ask you about, is it blacking? Yeah. I want to ask you about your participation in that. Like, how was it? How did you even get linked with that whole situation? What time do you got the party started? Honestly, the crazy part, like, this one, I come back from LA. I had my brother, he come in town. He was in Houston. So he come in town. Like I was in tattooing. I stopped tattooing because I was up there with Pete. I was up there for like five years. And I come back and I'm doing other stuff. So I got my other stuff going on. So my brother came in town. I'm like, look, you have my shot. Like go tattoo. And he start hashtagging.  And somebody from Kaston called him, right? So they hit him up like, look, we coming in, we about to start the new black ink. We gonna do the New Orleans. We looking for artists, you know, such and such. We're from black ink. So he come to me, see, look, bro, this black ink on the phone. I think you should talk to him. I told him, I ain't read it, but I want to introduce them to you. So I get on the phone with him and I'm telling him who I was.  Oh, we been looking for you. We been hearing about you. Cause we've been asking all the people who like, urban tattoo artist from New Orleans. So everybody kept telling them about me. So they're like, yeah, you know, we want to link up with you. So I talked them for like, like two months before filming and all that, before anything was going on. And we were just keeping in contact, telling me about the show and all that. And I'm just telling them what I'm trying to accomplish. And you know what I'm saying? On the show for the show, for me to agree to do it. And you know, I did the show. It was cool. It was certain things I ain't really careful. And you know, I had, I made him give me a walk away contract. Yo, this party up. You didn't do your walk away contracts play. So I didn't have no ties. Like they want to lock you in for at least 10 years for the show. And I come from contracts. I come from doing move. I was signed. I was so, I'm like, nah, I'm good on that. Like I'm reading my contract and I'm not, I'm not with this. 10 years? 10 years. They want to, and they want to, everything you put out, they wanted something from it. So it's like, it was complicated. It was like, bro, look, y'all ain't making it. I already got stuff going on.  So y'all not about to take no money from that. So we really got to sit down and break this contract down. So they try to give me the contract the day before. Cause when I go out and play, they think I'm younger than what I am and I'm quiet. Cause I were observing what's going on to see if you're trying to play me. And you know, that was one of the moves. So I called him like, look, I'm good. So I turned him down like five times.  I met with him.  And like, whatever you want. Like I got you.  I'm like, I bet, but I want to walk away contract until I see a few episodes and see how this going. Then I revisit that. But you know, there was a lot of just stuff going on and the show didn't really last.  Big Red Records. Walk away without no attachments. No attachments. Cause we had somebody else who was on Black Ink that we interviewed. No, that was a girl. I told him about that girl. I can't remember her name, but man, she was, it wasn't on Black Ink. She was dealing with white folks. Yeah. She was not dealing with, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was, it was white ink. Yes. 10 years, a long country, no. That's Big Red Records, man. You wrecked it. Oh, man. I got to ask you about Mac, man. We got to talk about Mac. I can't come over here and not talk about Mac. Yeah, that's the homie. Like, like Mac is a, we interviewed Mac and Mac was so humble and just a good dude. You know what I'm saying?  Having to just boom, get taken away like that. But, I mean, but to be a guy who everybody say didn't do it. Right. And then to go through what he went through and still be a stern and as player and as, you know, humble as he is. I think that's live, man.   I'm going to do all that other stuff, something different for him. But to see him reunite with his family and come back. You went through a lot, man. I remember all those nines, man, you know what I'm saying?  But Mac gave you a conscience. You feel me? Yeah. He taught you through his music. You feel me? And Mac said that. Mac said he like, he a lyricist. He like, like lyrics, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's a fact. And I think that's something that details who he is and gives him a standoffish way of being not like everybody else. That's why I was honored to get his 25, 25th year anniversary for Shell Shop. Like we got that coming up on July 20, 30, but. That's hard. I'm honored to do that for the homie. Like I'm like, bro, let me, let me get you a 25th anniversary. That's, I love it. He was like, let's do it. You feel me? He ain't even, like I said, he like him too. They don't be, they don't ask no questions. You heard me? I'd be glad they don't hit me with a contract. I would get mad if they don't hit me with a contract. They be like, let's do it. I'd be like, hey, bro, it's all love. You call me? I just was about to start a movie. I said, look, my birthday and everything.  I ain't going to work. Come on. Let's do it. That's hard, man. That's just, that's loyalty. That's different, that's different, man. Yeah. Man, so I mean, you really like, when you think about just what, what new Orleans represent to the culture, man, I gotta say thank y'all, man. I always interview a lot of new Orleans people, man. Thank you. I rock with y'all, man. Ever since I did this podcast, I already am from right by new war. I'm not new on balloons and I know y'all think it's different, man. It's his own place. It has parishes and all. It's his own spot. Yeah, yeah. It's different. What do you think about KLC? Well, I got to throw his name up. Oh, the drum music. What do you think about KLC, man? To come down to the sound and the way you hear the voice. Yeah, I got the original New Orleans sound. He wanted to pioneer of that sound. You feel me? Yeah. He wanted to pioneer of that sound. So many friends came with that bounce, man. Yeah, he is a pioneer of the sound. Listen, man. Be the hop what I got, what I take it in bed. Break it down, shake it down with me and a friend. He is the sound of New Orleans.  You can't put that thing by no means. You know what I said, let's fix it. You never seen him crack a down seat to the truck.  Special on man and fresh. You know what man? That educated me so much, man. Yeah, you should go see it. To show you how bounce music started, fresh. I didn't know fresh started it. Street DJ in New Orleans and his performances was crazy. I remember my dad used to come home with DJ of the year trophy. I knew he was a part of the big game. I didn't knew he started it. And that's a bad man to take that and that's our sound. Man. What did you, when you first discovered his music and his beats, where were you at and what did you think about the movement and what was the biggest impact of his music? Man, New Orleans music was, you didn't listen to nothing else. Like you listen to NWA, New Orleans music. Because our music scene was on smash. Like the world know the hot boys. But see UNLV were man and fresh. Man, that was something different. That's where BG coming in the game enters as if he's a kid coming under UNLV. You feel me? Like, man. That was all it. Man, that was the landscape of New Orleans. You talking about from that third one. You the thought man and fresh was from the third one. How are you a cat from downtown round? All them uptown niggas. And you give them the sound that is uptown. But he from downtown. Man, I remember all them songs Lil Wayne did, man.  That boy was hell in it, man. He was hell in them, man. That ain't nothing like that, bro. One person, all them albums? Ain't nothing like that, bro. Every album sounded different. Like, Juvie album didn't sound like a BG album. Didn't sound like a Lil Wayne album. Right. You feel me? So he really did his dog. That was crazy. I had a question. So how important is Peach's records to the culture? That's a staple. To hear every rapper say they got to start at Peach's. Like, Mia was working at Peach's. Mack coming from Peach's. BG was there? BG, like everybody come from there. That was a staple in New Orleans. And it's still there now? Yeah, for sure, for sure. It is history. It is history for history for history. I love the story. I do, too. I've been fascinated by it. I mean, I was like, it's a jewel. I'm like, don't touch it. God, be careful how you deal with it. I look at stuff different. No, I know. It's good. You have the right eye because this store was built with the help of our people, you know? Because it's like, if you can visualize the caterpillar going to the cocoon. And this is what came out of our people, you know? This is like the local paint-toes are here, the local candle makers, the local jewelers.  Yeah, man. Shout out to Mr. Ron. Mr. Ron, did we interview? Hold here? No, I didn't see it. We interviewed her. No, check it out. We were in our shop.    We were going to give you the kids in the city. I just so love, man, because I love the whole culture. And I just don't think people give us how I just do. We got to take it by force. We got to make people understand that the South ain't playing no games. And we already done it through the music. Now we got to do it through the sources of media to make them understand we going to make y'all see what we're doing. And you're doing a great job with that. Like, from the guesses that you break. You're doing a great job, given that perspective of what it is, what this culture mean. And like you say, UNG, do y'all be speaking facts? Y'all don't just speak feelings. Yeah. Yeah, we on Boss Talk 101. 101. Yeah, we going to talk.


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