In this example, we're going to be looking at this block of code to find dependencies, data hazards, and to overcome those data hazards using NOOP instructions again. So the first thing we'd like to do is go through and find all the dependencies. Our first instruction is dependent on stuff that's happening outside of our codes. We won't really need to worry about that one. Our second instruction has two source registers, t0 and a1. Since we updated t0 in the first instruction, we do have a dependency there. Our second instruction is only dependent on register 0. Since register 0 can't be changed, we don't really have any dependencies there. We clearly weren't trying to update register 0 before. So we won't have to worry about any there. Likewise, with the fourth instruction, the only source register is register 0, so that won't be a problem. In our fifth instruction, the shift left logical, we have one source register, which is t1. And that is dependent on the previous instance of t1, which was set up here. So we've got a dependency there. Then we've got our add instruction. Add instruction is dependent on t1, which we updated in the shift left logical instruction. So we'll have a dependency there. Then we've got a store word instruction. Our store word instruction is dependent both on the data in t2, as well as the address in t1. So we updated t1 here in the add instruction. So there's a dependency there. And then we updated t2 back here in our first add immediate instruction. So we'll also have a dependency there. Our last instruction is the jump register instruction. And that's not going to be dependent on any of the others that we've got here because we didn't update the return address. So now we'll go through and look for data hazards and add no op instructions to avoid those. Since our first instruction doesn't have any dependencies, we don't have any problems just running the load word instruction immediately. But our second instruction is dependent on the first one. So that means we're going to have to wait two cycles for our load word instruction to complete before we can run our add instruction. Since we don't have anything else to fill those cycles with, we'll use no op instructions. Our third instruction and our fourth instruction aren't dependent on any others. So we'll be able to run those immediately. Now we've got our shift left logical instruction. That is dependent on the previous add immediate instruction. So we're going to need to wait two cycles for the add immediate instruction to complete before we can get the results for T1 out. So that will mean we'll fill those two cycles with no op instructions. Next we have this add instruction which is dependent on the results of this shift left logical. So again, we're going to wait two cycles for shift left logical to store its results back into a register. Before we pull them out and use them in the add instruction. Next we've got this store word instruction. This one is dependent on two of our other instructions. We've got the add immediate as well as the add instruction. So first I need to wait two cycles after the add immediate instruction is completed before I can get the data from T2. So I look back here, I've had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven cycles since that instruction ran. So I'm pretty sure that data is available for me. But I also have to wait two cycles for the address T1 to be computed. So since that was computed in the previous instruction, I'm going to have to wait two more cycles for that data to be available for me. So I will add two no op instructions. Then I can have my store word instruction. And lastly I have the jump register instruction. This case it's not dependent on any of the previous instructions. So I'm going to be able to run my jump register instruction immediately. So that's what our sequence of instructions will look like this time. We've added two, four, six, eight no op instructions to work around the data hazards that we've got from this series of instructions.


What is the number one thing holding you back from dating that kind of grades? Did you get in high school and what do you do for work today? So a lot of people are using the sound to talk about how they had bad grades, but now they're doing well I want to offer a different perspective Because I worked my ass off for my grades in high school I just got A's and B's which was fine But I did a ton of extracurriculars and I had great SAT scores Then in college it really took off because I was taking STEM classes and I was getting straight A's for the most part You know chemistry biology calculus a a a I was doing 15 credit hours a semester I was working part-time at Starbucks. I was working as a math tutor I was president of more than one club I worked so hard that I got to start working in a biology lab where I was pulling 5 a.m. Shifts on Christmas Day. I got an honorable mention from the Goldwater Scholarship because of the B I got an organic chemistry But I'm really happy to say that after all of that hard work I do think I'm pretty successful now.  She's not wifey material She's a soulmate. Oh, this is a bathing suit And if you're wondering why I'm in a bathing suit in the middle of a snowstorm in January, um, it's because it's no two feet Probably gonna go up to here on me. All right, here we go.  I'm poor. Why else would I ask you for fake food money for food? You have jewelry not poor Don't believe you. Do you need proof? I hear some here's some proof. Why do you want food stamps? To eat food. Okay, but you have to promise me you won't buy drugs with your food stamps I Okay, I See you have a job and you make money. Where does all your money go? You can't eat. Um, no, I have bills to pay For drugs no, can I have the food stamps? You act poor. So yes, but you can only buy cold food rotisserie chickens are for rich people Okay, I'm hungry now when will I get the food stamps three weeks? Okay, I'll try not to die My video yesterday responding to this man about male privilege had some of y'all fired up and so many women Commented so many better examples than the ones that I even used originally so it's time for a part two Did you know that women are 47% more likely to be seriously injured in a car accident because the crash test Dummies used in safety testing are male crash test dummies designed to be the average male proportions and female crash test dummies weren't even utilized until 2015 they're not government mandated so not every brain uses them and when they do use them They're mostly tested in the passenger seat because the misogyny continues And did you know that women are 1.7 times more likely to suffer adverse side effects of medications because the clinical trials used to determine the Proper dosage or male dominated trials because let's completely ignore the fact that men and women process drugs differently and have different Metabolisms so yeah super great. Have you ever heard of the pink tax? It's not actually a tax But it's a statistically higher cost for female Marketed products that are identical to male products for example female clothes that are identical to male clothes On average or 10% more expensive and little girls toys compared to little boys toys tend to be 5 to 13% more Expensive and this inflation of cost it on average is estimated to cost women $1,300 a year for identical products just because they're marketed to women and now let's talk about how men are Praised for doing the bare minimum like babysitting their kids or helping with chores as if they're not their kids and their chores That just need to be taken care of and when men reach high-powered positions Are you ever accused of sleeping your way there because you couldn't possibly gotten there on skill merit or qualifications?   Yeah, how about instead we teach little boys That's not how you treat women if you like them you're not mean to them show them respect and affection It's almost like we can combat this, you know But these are just examples to show you how the world is designed to cater to men. So again, there's your male privilege This is what I am wearing this is what I was wearing on my way back home It is sweatpants in a crop top.   What's my name?  Oh, and that's the way that it go.  He bought it. You like my car my husband. He bought it My husband. He bought it. My husband. He bought it. I'm spoiled and rotten my husband.  I got my taxes in here Let's look inside of here. There's more What I pay on the health care you name it everything everything All of it. You're right. It's money.  I want to talk to the kids Parents watch the video and then hand the phone over to the young kids. Hi there I get asked a lot. Are you a boy or a girl? And I love that question And so I wanted to just tell you Sometimes human beings are more than boy or girl Sometimes we're something else. Sometimes we're both Sometimes we kind of float in between and sometimes we're a boy. Sometimes we're a girl Because human beings are creatures and we're wild and exciting But I want to ask you a favor If you see a kid like me or an adult like me, would you be extra nice to them? Would you do me favor and be very very kind? Yeah, like anybody we can feel lonely and so if you're kind to us it would be really really important Recently a Nigerian man went on his wife's snapchat and Found something that he thought was suspicious Well, he found out that his wife was sleeping around cheating with another man So he flew back to the US where his where his wife was at to get a DNA test on on their son Who was four years old the DNA the DNA test showed that he was not the father And he had a heart attack and died Yeah, it's really happened the man had a heart attack and died There's a can did there's a name for that condition when that happens to people It's it's an actual it actually does happen to people where they get so Hurt over a certain of a horrible news that they just died I know for a fact I had a friend whose son was murdered back in 2004 and when the son's Grandmother found out about it. She had a heart attack and died the same exact time The same time her grandson got killed the same matter grandson got killed She had a heart attack and died when she found out The news so it is a real condition y'all But it goes I'm really I'm really more or less on some if you got to go through some bodies Instagram and snapchat and YouTube and Facebook page You got to check all this stuff because you feel suspicious that they're doing something Nine times out of ten. They're probably doing something to make you feel like that But why would you put yourself in a relationship like that? Why would you want to be in a relationship where you feel like the person that you're with whether you have proof or not? It's cheating on you That's like being in a prison. That's like being with somebody that you're just not meant to be with People need to find their peace in a relationship If you with somebody that's not making you feel like you can be at peace in a relationship Meaning like you can trust them with your life. They can trust you you guys can build together You need to get out of that relationship And this particular situation when that dude to make for him to check her snapchat and find out She was messing around means that she was giving them a signs already He just didn't want to see him Unfortunately, he died because of it


u can take care of everybody in the world in really amazing standard of living. You can, I've kind of tried to summarize this here. If you look at the AI you can consider thousands of parameters, petabytes of data and make decisions in government decisions. Humans can actually entertain maybe seven thoughts plus or minus two at the same time. So it's really powerful. You can really solve problems like self-driving cars. I think it's a 1.3 million people die because of human error across the world basically not in Vermont but across the world. Cancer detection is already here. We have apparently apps that you can, that doctors use to take a picture of a mole. It will tell you with the same accuracy of the best dermatologist whether that's cancerous or not. So we could actually do that. We use it for I think IBM Watson Health. I think it uses it for cancer detection, recommendations on treatments and so on. And then I mean all kinds of other diseases that we are to, we cannot take all this information to make decisions could be actually solved with these systems. You can remove dangerous working conditions. You can eliminate drudgery from our lives and really if you look at the benefits of it could be tremendous for society. The risk page has a little more small font. Prophecy is a big one. Everybody's concerned about that. So you have security cameras that are really detecting suspicious behavior even without any human interaction. So you have a camera that's monitoring, for example, a parking lot. And it's not somebody watching the video feed of that camera that determines whether something's weird. If the camera figures out that there's an individual moving in a suspicious pattern, it will alert the authorities and single out that. So you have now fewer and fewer individuals monitoring more and more cameras. So now you're kind of focusing the power into fewer and fewer people. There's examples of racial bias in image recognition depending what pictures we've shown. There's examples of AI that will amplify really our primal behavior and bias. So we had Microsoft deployed a chat bot called Tay that became a racist very quickly on the web based on the people that it was interacting with. So it was learning from the interactions that's kind of echoing that. And then the impact on democracy, it's really we're focusing power in fewer and fewer hands. In the past, you supervise the direction and employees can actually make a decision whether they want to follow that direction or not if they disagree with it. It was inefficient and perfect, but you didn't have some type of a group intelligence as a safeguard. In the future, supervising give directions, you have employed that could be an AI robot or something like that. It would be executed without any questions. It's very efficient exact, but there's really no safeguards from the human perspective to actually do that. So you need legislation to make sure that when this is there, you really have enough checkpoints and balances to do that. AI arms race is a big challenge. I think between South Korea and North Korea, there's a deployment of what are called sentinels which are machines that could turn on into a mode that's fully automated and actually can make a decision whether they take human life or not without any human interaction. Currently the switch is on human control, but they can easily enable that. Wait, what can do that? They can do that now? They can do that now, yeah. So the border between South Korea and North Korea, there's robots that are effectively cameras with weapons on them. They have the ability to be set in a fully autonomous mode. So when they see a human crossing the border or an army crossing the border, they can open fire automatically. That is not currently the setting of them. The setting is on human guided, but the capability of building such machines is really not something that's too difficult when you think about it. Now we have a drone that you can fly and can follow you while you ski and take pictures of you. Just connect the picture thing to a weapon and you have drones that can do things that we might not want to do. That inequality is something that's highlighted by a lot of these AI things. We have, without AI legislation here, you would have a level of inequality that's tremendous. You have people that can replace most of their employees with robots and although there could be wealth generated, the question is how that wealth is distributed. Yeah, that's a big concern. In the next couple of slides, I showed what jobs are the most to be affected. So this is a snapshot from a TED talk that I was watching preparing for this meeting. So they're kind of showing the two axes here. One axis is really creativity. The other axis is compassion. So really how much compassion is involved in the job. So this portion here where there's not a lot of compassion and a lot of not a lot of creativity, those jobs are really at the risk first with this type of deployment. You then have jobs that really need a lot of compassion. Those are jobs that would probably be the most AI, we're busting out the words, you might need AI to help you with certain tasks but they would still need the human touch. Creativity is still something that would probably remain a human thing for a while. But then you have the other side, something that requires creativity but doesn't really require a lot of compassion, that would also be affected. So this was the... So this was the really great jobs, a huge job that would be fully replaced. And for example, everybody's talking about that. And I heard a lot of discussions about self-driving cars and stuff but I believe if we're looking at the impact of millions of people being without jobs, once truck drivers, taxi drivers are all basically covered with self-driving cars, you don't only worry about that but you also worry about all the enablement associated with truck drivers like truck stops and anything else that's really built around them. So that's really at risk as well. And then as you see different levels of coverage is depending on the type of jobs. Question on that though. All these machines, whether they're autonomous or not, need people to take care of them. Like you need somebody to maintain it. So won't those jobs just turn into the maintenance of those things instead of the actual operation of them? Yeah, no, so there's definitely some level of maintenance I agree but it's gonna be definitely less than all the people that are doing the work right now that will be affected by it. And you can also have machines to maintain its machines as well, but I agree with you. I agree the jobs could migrate but there's gonna be a lot of jobs that they would not, right? What's the professional background of the person who created these charts? I put together these charts but these are actually, you can see the reference here. So you decided that a CEO needs more creativity and compassion than a social worker? I did not, these are the top charts. Yeah, so what's the background of that person? Yeah, yeah. What is their? He was the CEO. Oh, okay, I can do the record, let it be known. I'm like, there's obviously human bias in the individuals. I totally agree, I totally agree. That's how that helps. Artificial intelligence assigned the chart. If it had been designed by a politician, the politician would be right here. This is an interesting perspective of somebody in this business, which was, this can do great things, but don't let me get too good because we're all going to hell in a hand bastard day in the end. I mean, there's kind of a fatalistic ending to this. It's not fatalistic. I mean, I'm saying that you could have tremendous wealth. If you direct AI in the right direction and we have legislation to keep it in that direction, like I said, $16 trillion in GDP, nobody will have to work.  If you direct it in the right direction. If you direct it and you're misaligned with AI where it's directed, if you don't have the zero conditions, the ground zero conditions, that's where you actually could end up in a bad position. So I think this is great that we have a task force talking about this early enough. Yeah. These are questions that only an AI computer in the end are going to be able to deal with because they're so large and global. I mean, I understand the level of risk. I understand what the outcomes might be. What I don't understand is how you direct them to the right answer and not to the end. And we were talking about this a little bit in the earlier one about climate change. Our problem doesn't seem to be the ability to be predictive about climate now. We've got more and more data going, analysis is getting better and better and better and better. It's the policy question of people who have to then say, sorry, now that I know this, we have to do this. That is the big weakness and it's the big weakness here. And this one moves at an exponential rate. So the policy would need to start following. I think kind of rain looks out and I don't know if it's possible. But it's hard to know what the legislate, you know, you say you need to have legislation like, legislation really what? I think legislation needs, as I think you was pointed out, I think education would be really key. It would be key for government to have very educated people in AI to actually be able to recommend the right legislation for it. And it would be important to, in my opinion, it would be important to actually continue to talk about this as more developments happen to be constantly changing direction so we can actually, end up with a positive outcome. The slide that I had with lots of wealth and lots of positive wealth, rather than the negative associated with it. So this was another thing I spoke from a TED talk. They said we had technologies that we came up with in the past. We had fire and cars. We can learn from our mistakes on these. You burn yourself, you didn't do it again. You got seat belts and restraints and airbags. You reduced the number of beds. I think we're on this side where we need to get it right the first time. I think we need to align well to make sure we don't make mistakes. This is an interesting website. I think it's a lot of great thinkers in this space. This is a mission statement. It's an interesting read if anybody wants to spend some more time on it. I think that's all I had. Any questions? Would you be available for follow-up questions if we emailed you? Absolutely. OK. I have a question. It's sort of broader than this, but it's related. I just thought about that. We've had people doing presentations like PowerPoints and stuff. Is it possible that we can have that collect those from what this isn't have that posted on the web so that the general public can refer to ICK when not in? OK, cool. So it's OK with you? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we're out on the slack. Great. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Tim? No slides for me. I'm Tim Kenney, and I'm the CEO right now of AI, certainly a small startup company that I started with my son, Nate, two years ago. I used to work at AI. I'll tell you about it in a minute. But in many ways, I'm going to be the counterpoint to what you just heard. Let me just go from that standpoint. I'm going to roll way back to me coming out of Safe Night's College in 1986 when AI was hot. And it was so hot that I wanted to go study at grad school. And I finally got into it. There were like five really good programs in the US. I studied UW-Madison, and I studied our additional intelligence vision there. And I got my master's degree, and I was excited. And I left. I got a job in my lab, working for a big catacomber computer edge design, computer edge design. And we built a super cool piece of AI to get rid of drafts. Back then, you would get ready to make a part. And there was a step where a guy got paid to label the part so that it could be put into a machine by another job, a guy that would set up the machine. And it would stamp out these parts. And it was a big part of the industry. And we worked for two years on that piece of AI. We came out with it. It sold for three months. And then it got shut down. And the reason it did was they came up with a way to get rid of the next job, too, by just automating the whole plan right into the machine. So both of those jobs disappeared. And our AI left. And our whole unit got shut down. And I went off to IDX. Next. And then I did AI and IDX, too. So what did I do there? Well, I worked in the support. Well, I was a software developer running a team. But we worked with the support group because the calls coming in from the customers and the business was growing so fast. We said, can we automate this and make these calls so that the people taking the calls can find the answer faster? So we built what back then was considered AI. Today, you know what you call it? You call it as simple as the Google search engine. But it was AI back then. So we used all this machine learning. And we built some really cool stuff. And did we take jobs out of the system? Probably future hires that we took out of the system that never got hired to do the research on each individual problem because they could look it up, find it, and get to the customer very quickly. So we did that. Then I went on work for medical record systems there. And we started to work in doing medical record systems. All of this using machine learning at times. But AI had cooled off. I think you heard about the AI winter. It wasn't called AI. We called it object-oriented programming and support vector machines. And it was all these algorithms, tricks of algorithms. And we would use these. And we would build them in the systems. Well, GE bought ID Act. And I became a global vice president of R&D for Imaging. So I had 12 offices around the globe. And I would go visit these guys. And we had two groups in Europe that had some really cool AI vision that did for radiology, cancer detection, and lung and breast imaging. And it was great. And statistically, it was better than a doctor. Well, we installed that in a clinic. And they used it for a period of time. And it was better than them when we were tracking it.  And the reason they did was they were worried about liability issues when the doctor disagreed with the AI. And their reputation's on the line. And there were also false positives from the AI. And they hated that. Because then they had to explain why they disagreed with the AI. So that sort of faded away. And that was in the 2000s. And then, obviously, the rest of everything that was going on, we just considered IT. But there's machine learning built in. So many things that we're using today. There's no fear in the AI that's out there for me, of any of it. I will say, I don't really want to walk by an armed robot at the front desk that has bullets in it that's ready to shoot me if it decides I'm a threat. I'd like a person to make that decision. And I think we're a long way from that kind of ability. Now, getting to the tech talk on the hardware. The hardware isn't able for me to do something that I never could have done even 10 years ago at GE because the tech didn't exist. Which was, we came up with a way to combine what we call n-dimensional data to come up with predictions. And what that means to us is, think of it as an MRI image, the radiology images. This is how an actual radiologist diagnosis. They don't just look at an image. They look at your medical record. They look at the other lab tests. They look at the images. And we came up with an AI. We're waiting to see if we can get a patent. And it's very hard to get software patents these days. So I give us less than 50-50 odds that that money will have been well spent for the patent during. But we wanted to be able to predict those type of things. And in that process, my son happened to say, he's more into sports than I am. He's like, hey, Dad, couldn't we feed this sports data and use the same n-dimensional thing to predict sports? And I was like, yeah. Well, let's do an experiment. Let's find where we can buy the cheapest sports data. And it's funny because I'm not a gambler by nature because I can do math. So I don't usually like to lose my money. And we came up with the horse racing industry. So we happened to call the Kentucky Derby exacted pick as the best pick. And at one, people asked me, well, how much did you make? It paid $63 to one. And I said, well, it was a minimum $2 bet. I've got $120. So we're in the process of trying to license that tech out right now into that industry. How good is it? Well, we're 10% more accurate than the best experts. And why? Well, because like you heard, the software that we developed can analyze 1,500 data elements per horse per race and look through their entire history to say, how's it going to run today? And any normal person who sits at the track all the time and looks at the things and goes and looks at the horses, they can get an instinct for it. They can get very good, but they can't do that kind of analysis of that. But it's an algorithmic trick. And you can't pick up what we did. We heard about the labeling piece. You can't pick this up now and just go, hey, don't talk about the NFL. Let's do fantasy football next. It's actually a lot of work because you've got to label everything for it and set it up in the right way. It's not general purpose like you can learn it on its own. So when I think about, I happen to disagree with the predictions of a singularity coming in the next 50 years. I think we're hundreds and hundreds of years away from it. And I would be excited to say that none of us have to work again and that type of thing. But the automation is going to happen with or without the legislation because that's always what's happening.  So I took him to McDonald's. And the front counter is gone now when you order out the devices. So they just automated those jobs. Some of the front counter jobs are going, well, can AI put fries better than the fried person? You bet it can. Never gets tired. Never gets. And it can always pull it out exactly at the right time, see if it's crisp enough, put it back down if it's not. It can. And we're not going to be able to stop this. And it won't. My personal opinion is in four or five years to say the next day I went there is coming. And you won't call it AI anymore. You'll just call it software. And you'll say, can the software run the fry machine? And the answer is yes. And can the software drive the car better? And the answer is probably statistically better. There will be situations where, I heard the transportation talk was excellent, where you say, I think you gave the example of the airplane crash. Those things are going to happen. They're going to be catastrophic. And the question is, do they happen less? The answer will be probably much less. But it'll be making a decision. And do we really want a machine making that decision? And that's the hard thing we have to decide. But I worry. And the reason I said yes to this is I think I hear some great things about education and some things we need to do. But I worry about Vermont and our tech industry here looking silly if we pass something that looks silly to the rest of the United States. We are going to lose jobs. It's already hard to recruit here. It's hard for me to find the people that I needed. I was also president and CTO of my own grocery while we grew before we sold into private equity group. We used to stay out of there, too, by the way. I saw 60 million transactions every night come in on the system from groceries. And I will guarantee you that I knew what you were going to put on your list better than you did before you went into the store. And we actually built that for one chain and creeped the customers out. We had to turn it off. So we would say, here's what you're going to buy next time you're in the store, and it didn't go well. I don't like that. Yeah, as well. Instead, we turned it on to the advertising side so we know when to sell the rights to push ketchup to the ketchup people. So we could say, do you want to buy this one? But I want to, as I would like you guys as your committee or your team that you're looking at to be extremely cautious about setting a tone about being negative to what I consider software automation. Because if you knock us down, we work very hard and numberless in this community over the last 30, 40 years or longer for some people. To build Vermont's tech invention, global foundry is a result of that. Companies like Dealer, IDXGE, My Work Grocer, those things take a long time to get the right people here to do the recruiting. And if we start passing legislation that looks like we're afraid and it's not wise, then we're going to have some real problems. And I think that's the main thing that I came to just give another standpoint and opinion. And just to be clear, I totally agree with you. I think we need more education for more people that are capable of doing AI so we can also need that direction to make sure that everything is moving. So everybody benefits from that. I'm totally not negative on AI. I think it's a great technology. I think it's just like any other technology has the power to be both used for good and evil. But we just want to make sure that we are able to do that. From the positive side, and the things that we could recommend that would improve the climate, you're worried about us recommend things that will make the climate less effective. Now I'm sort of on the other side. Are there things that we could recommend that would improve the climate for AI development and move them on? I'm going to address it a little bit more from the software side and a little bit less from AI. But education is certainly number one. So let me tell you about at my work brochure, we had 300 software engineers working for us in Romania in one location. They graduate in that city in Romania, more software developers than all of the colleges in New England and New York State combined, one city. And it's because they don't have any other main industry.  And these people are excellent. And I will tell anybody. Now, we wanted to keep the core of our technology in our control. And we didn't want to set up a complete shop there. So we kept a lot of engineers here too. But that education piece of helping people get that high-end education in software development, which or today we might call it data science, or it's not really AI yet, maybe it will be someday. I think that's important. But the second thing is access to money for startup companies is still a major problem in Vermont. And it's why you see these companies start up in Massachusetts. So we are at the stage where we're out looking for capital yet. But if I do, my expectation is I will have to set up the headquarters in Boston in order to get the funding we're looking at to go into other areas that I can't find it here. And we found that even as my old brochure at the stage where we took in venture money that the Terram Brothers did, that was a Boston-based company. And the only reason they were willing to do it was the company was so far along, they wouldn't have touched it in its early stage because they don't want to make the trip up here. So we need to find a way to free up more capital for startup companies too. I agree. I think we need to bring more AI startups into the company in need of Vermont. I think that would be a benefit to Vermont from the state, especially as jobs transition from one set of jobs to others. So I'd like to have this conversation, I think, from my idea, how's the fastest internet service in the world or just about? That's another gigantic problem for us. We're going to have the remote areas. And I look at that anytime my wife likes to look at Zillow too much. I'm like, no, no. It's not a pass-up internet connection. I have no question for you. So you mentioned concerns about this task force recommending legislation that might be Vermont look silly or that might hurt the economy. Our mission is broader than just recommending legislation. And we've been asked to look at how Vermont could be a place that would promote development of ethical AI and how AI could be used to improve the efficiency of government and to improve our economy. And also whether or not a commission should be established for ongoing work. So it's not just like within a year we're expected to propose laws or regulations or not. That's one of the things. So having put that out there, I'm curious, what do you think about an ongoing commission to look at those things? Or do you think the government should just stay out of it and trust corporations? I think it falls into the individual areas of government for like the transportation one was an excellent example of people who oversee transportation saying aren't the cars taken up to drive themselves. But to look at AI as its own thing to me, I don't know how you do that. Like there's AI in the washing machine when you use the smart wash cycle. There really actually is. It's machine learning. That's how they train it. I don't know how you say is it ethical or not on as you get into software and you say it's showing you an ad. Is it ethical to show you an ad to buy a ketchup right now? I don't know how we do something like that. You're concerned about having a robot meeting the checkpoint, right? Yes. So it has ethical components. And to me, there are ethical components to those type of things. But I don't see it as AI as much as it's an armed device. I think we get scared as we say it's artificial intelligence, but it's not general purpose AI. It's very trained and detailed in one area that is specific. And to me, it's about the safety of a device, not the technology underneath the hood to call it AI or not. Yes, I agree. I mean, AI could be just an optimized software program. But that's how you get to look at it, right? It's not good as optimized. The only difference is that nobody has coded it. It's the machines that actually grow in control effectively. So the testing is definitely there, but that's associated with any device that I'm going to do. I think the government would benefit probably from looking at the technology direction where we're headed and kind of look ahead and try to see how to meet the problems that might be arising. For example, by self-driving cars, taking people out of the jobs of driving trucks. So I think that would be the benefit of actually having experts like us to present more of the technology we think that will be going on. One other thing I just want to throw out there to think about, I hear your point about how it could be handled in all the different silos of government. But one of the things we hear about a lot of problems with government is that historically, we humans for whatever reason, it's probably, one could say it's the way our brains are designed in the cognitive bias that we have. We break it into categories so that we can understand them in that process of separating things. We have created problems for ourselves in that, I guess like the question I would have, it's not for you necessarily, it's for our group and for our society is, do we need to be thinking more interdisciplinary and do we need to be thinking about the intersection? And this, you know, artificial intelligence could be viewed as a tool that has the capability on its own to exceeding its maker. And if that tool, if that kind of tool is happening across disciplines and we're not communicating between those silos, does that undermine our efforts?  So I just want to throw it out there. It's a question, and I've heard sort of people present for both sides for the last two years. So I hear your point too, what it's like. My question is, you know, can we trust that if we break things into pieces that we're gonna be able to stay ahead of it? So, I don't think you've had the answer of anyone does yet, you know. I think we need to look at this as a powerful technology and you need to figure out how to best control it, to some extent, but it is a powerful technology. And controlling it might mean actually like bringing a lot of AI to the bond to actually educate people about it, to actually have to reap the financial benefits of it, but also have some type of better educated legislation to actually address it to the world. Thanks. Thank you very much. Thanks. Up next is Joey Appleton. You're right on schedule. Oh, yeah. You're right on schedule. We're not really on schedule. Oh, all right. Oh, all right. All right. All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You can all rest this year. That's for the last 100 years. Excuse me. Joey Appleton is my name. I work with engineers and construction, ECI. We've got hundreds of vehicles on the road throughout the state of Illinois, so I wouldn't probably see them. We do a lot of similar infrastructure that we all drive on a new date. We look at building projects, building playgrounds that are not very much useful right now to feed. So we get involved in a lot of different projects all throughout the state of Illinois. A lot of the things that we do, we rely on people with pretty much everything. We have equipment that can move things, but we right now, we rely on people that are very dumb tools that require very well-trained people and some of the problems. We do have right now those getting well-trained people in the door. We do struggle with the whole industry of struggling with these questions over and over. My background is civil engineering. I've worked in Boston, I've worked with Pyrrhus in Boston. To the gulf, I've built a lot of projects in the Middle East and seen some of the projects that are individual projects that are larger than what the whole entire state of Vermont spends in construction and different. So I've seen things across the board of different magnitudes of work in different technologies most of the time. And some of the things that we are actively doing right now in construction at ECI or in general, that is actually consider artificial intelligence. And I, in general, consider artificial intelligence and anything we're relying on a computer to make the decision. And it's not just a linear path of going from here to be. So right now, for example, a lot of things that the biggest area of AI practice right now is machine control, equipment, it can control itself, it can drive itself. Right now it's, we have in our programming, we have several pieces of equipment that has an operator sitting at the seat, but it's got a computer that guides it that tells it how to dig down, it tells it bulldozer how to lower and raise the legs so it can sculpt the runway exactly to what the model tells it to do. And that's all GPS control and that's pretty, that's as advanced right now as people getting in the state of Vermont. Japan and some of the other Asian markets are a little bit more advanced where they actually have guys controlling pieces of equipment remotely from other workstations from other countries. Bigger projects, bigger, larger mining operations and things of that nature. We have tremendous amounts of very large, very expensive equipment. That's where you kind of see more of the overall automation and the overall, you know, lesser human impact on the NIMP, I mean the operation. So construction, in general, construction's about 10 years behind the manufacturing industries on technology in general. And then the state of Vermont, I would say, based on my experience, probably another 10 years behind some of the other states and some of the other countries in the world as far as technology goes. And the construction sector, some of the biggest opportunities that we do have, you know, where we're, why do we recognize to be, you know, most of our jobs are over budget and over time. So we're not the motivation of this group. For many different reasons, we've never seen the same building twice. We've never seen the same jobs like twice. We've only built one kind compared to the manufacturing industry, so that's a big reason for that. But some of the biggest opportunities that we, you know, that are out there right now are related to, you know, software systems that can, you know, optimize schedules that can understand all the different widgets that go into a project and then build a schedule that no human can possibly build and identify the steps. So there's ways that we can streamline construction for sure by introducing a few more people on the ground that makes the job site safer. So there's certainly a lot of safety aspects to it. That can be seen in the fund. We, there's, every day we're making dozens and hundreds and thousands of different decisions on, how to deal with the situation. So there's definitely plenty of room for computer guided decision-making, for scheduling, for sequencing, for material procurement, and then even in the design and the engineering phases, you know, there are, that's one of the first things we do when we get a project is, you know, in the drawing set, for example, we look at it and try to understand the scope of the work. And it doesn't take us very long to ask a question and say, why are we doing it this way? Why is it being done this way? Why did the designer, you know, maybe try a job like that, if we do. So I think there's a lot of area for artificial intelligence to be applied into helping, like the agency of transportation, for example, to decide what projects need to be put out there next.  Should we replace that railroad bridge or should we rehab that railroad bridge? And you know, there's millions of different decisions that can be made. And I certainly think that will help us overall be a little more efficient as a sector but at the same time, the more efficient we are, the less waste we have. You know, some of that, that shift is happening somewhere. Some of us, the labor staff are getting paid less because they're working fewer hours because the jobs are getting done quicker or, you know. But so there's lots of opportunities in that respect. As far as the autonomous vehicles go, you know, we've got dump trucks driving down the road. We've got the equipment being hauled back and forth. So there's certainly, you know, that technology is certainly something that will tremendously impact the construction industry. It's scary to think that you'd have a dump truck loaded with, you know, stone driving down the highway next to you with nobody running it. So there's certainly, so we have all the legislation and all of the effort to go into keeping the transportation industry safe in respect to that is certainly something that will need to be considered and continued after the new construction cycle. Definitely a state of Vermont. We work all over the state and there's more. More often than not, we're in an area that has zero connectivity. I get in trouble all the time. I've been in the state of Vermont for two years now. I'll mount myself to the job to go look at the job. But then once I get there, I don't realize I probably should have been paying a little bit closer attention because I got a known service now and I can't mount myself back. And I ended up navigating through some of the back roads. So I think definitely, you know, some of the things that we should be doing in the state of Vermont will definitely expand my network.  At the same time, myself, I actually do, I actually bought a can in Vermont and bought this premium several years back. And I bought it because it was in the middle of nowhere. My cell phone didn't work. I had no one to call me and it was nice. At the same time, you know, that's where we go to Vermont. So I'm going to give you this way of the way of this balance. The agency of transportation, it's definitely the company to come on. The biggest vendor in the construction sector in the state as far as the single agency or single entity. So they'd be, you know, collecting, starting to get data collected, starting to actually build up our databases and information. We're a very slow industry at that. So I know there's some big, big pushes right now at AOT to expand their automated systems, data collection systems for managing and the industry and construction projects. So that's huge. That's definitely something that should keep up. And in my company in general, we're in a transformation right now filling out paper time cards at the end of each week to go to an automated cloud-based data collection system. So if you build things like that, we can't do anything without the big data sets. So definitely as an industry and start collecting more data that's actually available to be used. If we can't access that data set, then we can't do anything about it. So I think that would be good. If you want to encourage technology producers to actually invest in the data sets that we'll be able to see. Education is going to be huge right now. Right now we're going to jump at our office. We'll take anyone who's got a pulse right now doing their job. We are in the need of people still. So the fact that it's going to be very many years down the road, we're not going to be very, very, very reliant with what I'm seeing. 25, 45 years from now, we'll see what's going on. Maybe we'll have a few jobs shifted and maybe five to 10% fewer jobs. We'll do the machinery and software taking over if you would. I don't see anything in general that we'd be able to move beyond that. I think we've got a long way to go even before we even start to make progress. So as far as legislation goes and as far as contributing to this growing industry, connectivity, education, we've got to educate people to get them back into the industry in general because they actually care about the construction industry and actually contribute to it. So right now, in many respects, it's kind of a dying trade. So getting people back into the trades and getting people educated on the software side and the technology side actually won't put their effort back into it. Does N1 have any questions? So it almost sounds like you almost need to invest in artificial intelligence due to the lack of labor force. Right now, I would say yes. I would say unless we get more people coming in the door that are looking for jobs in this industry, it's not, if you have no training, no education, no formal education, it's not a very pleasant working experience. It's cold at the yesterday, it was before zero for the guys out there. It's not like, some people love us on the work. So in the short term, it sounds like you need more workers, but as technology progresses, you will inevitably need less workers. So the rest of what we need to think about is like we might want to encourage people, in the short term, but in the long term, if we put too much energy into pushing people into construction, they're going to be out of jobs in 20 or 30 years, so we have to think about the balance. I think it will definitely be a huge shift. There'll definitely be a big shift before we start meeting people. I think that's probably something that is inevitable, but probably forecastable. Definitely getting more people into the trades, getting more people with technology backgrounds into the trades.  We do need more people who show up and have an interest in. And it's a very complicated, it's even though we'll take anybody with a pulse to come and join us, it is a very complicated and complex industry, it's not like manufacturing. Everything is different, it's a different location, there are different constraints, there's different environments and conditions. For those reasons, it's definitely going to be very slow at adapting the technology compared to others. The more we can take the lessons learned from the manufacturing industry and apply that to the construction industry is huge and it's going to give it to people to actually put the effort and the time to making those connections. And then not being on board either the designers or the architects and everybody who's got to see everything. I mean a lot of those are big, not my backyard type mentality at a lot of times. People don't want to go look at ugly bridges, so they want to look at a bridge that blends into the environment. The environment is different every square foot of your image and it's tough to introduce manufacturing. But the type of practices that do mass production and mass relegation. I do have one more question, it's a simple one. You've said more than once that you're looking for help. If people in the general public were watching us or watched this recording or looking for a job, how could they get in contact with your company? Website. Can you say it again just so that there might be people that watch you? Yeah. I think people are watching you. Yeah, engineers for destruction now. We'll be able to see our team.com. Thank you. One quick question. Yeah, go for it. This is on behalf of some young people I know. You mentioned the Montpelier Elementary School Playground. You also said that a lot of products come in over budget and over schedule. I just wanted to know on the record, is that project your most important thing on schedule? That project will come. That project will come in on schedule. That's great to hear. It will come in on schedule. That's wonderful. I think that could be a total budget. Just being raised is such a good donation. Great, thanks very much. I imagine because of your lack of labor force and your continuously, you need people, you're turning down the work, right? All right, we're having to be more creative on how to have a staff jobs. We're having to be more creative on how to optimize where we send people and weigh the risks of one client getting upset because we left their job to work on another one. So another area for AI to help us that's good management resources. So are you being more efficient and is software scheduling and sequencing helping you? Yes, right now we are introducing software as we speak in the implementation stage right now in order to reduce the amount of time we're spending doing some daily work. Reduce the amount of time it takes to come by payroll department to process the paychecks for the 150,000, 75,000,000s. The more time you can get people to free up the more productive you can feel, the more we can do with what we have. More or less, more or less.  Optimum employment? It's a very, it's a very, fluctuating industry, especially in Vermont, especially in the middle of the season. So right now we are going to just keep that 200,000 across the middle. We will drop down to 100,000 or less in the middle of the month so we can slow down. We are in a growing state though. We are looking to expand our market sectors that are drastically under ripped or there's a lack of talent and expertise for certain sectors, especially in Vermont, especially if it's not seen in the private food side of things, so that's an area that we are looking to expand on the property, the property view and how we can see this as well. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. So my name's Jill Sharfman, as I mentioned before, I'm president of Vermont AFL-CIO. I am a retired letter carrier, which means I spent 31 years outdoors working. And I'm here to tell about it, but I'm not going to. And you know, this is like Charles Dickens. It's the best of times. It's the worst of times. You know, AI offers us great opportunity, but we are going to have to set a standard of living for it. Here we are at the richest nation on the planet. We need to set a standard of living for people as AI moves forward. And right now, and many people in this room that know a lot more about this than I do, but I look at it like AI is kind of having hiccups and burps. And boy, when this stuff unrolls, it's going to go fast. And we are going to be faced with some incredible decisions that we should be making now. And so essentially, I kind of scanned some information from the Transportation Trades Department of the AFL-CIO and they respond to legislation in Congress. And they make remarks along the lines of the leaves of the existing regulatory regime is inadequate for these vehicles, talking about automated vehicles, self-driving vehicles, one, two, three, four, five. When Congress passed the National Traffic and Motor Vehicles Safety Act of 1966, the law vested the national NHTSA with the responsibility for protecting the public against accidents created by improper design, construction, or performance of motor vehicles. For automated vehicles, NHTSA's voluntary, unenforceable guidelines do not uphold the agency's founding mission of ensuring safety and protecting the public. By allowing manufacturers to deviate from or otherwise ignore the guidelines, this approach may create a dangerous patchwork regime of non-compliance. These are the kind of things that is attracting the eye of labor. Then they want to be in the mix. So when they develop committees like these at the national level, they want to have a voice in how this unrolls and what happens to displace workers. 2008 to 2010, they did a little examination of workforce and they found that workers were when these jobs are being displaced, that we have proper training. And proper training for a person like me who's technologically inept, that they have an ability to have a meaningful job and also in geographic locations. One industry may shut down and look at the auto plants all over Michigan. And what happens to those communities? So how do you keep building a community when the industry leaves? And how do you, these are all questions that need to be answered. And we should be prepared to answer them and have solutions. And we envision a work day that's short. We envision more flexibility, more time for people and their families. And right now, we at an odd place where people are working more, like there's no workers. Because automation is out of point. And we're still needs a lot of workers. But we're going to go past that. And when we get past that, how do we do it? And we're not doing a great job right now where we underpay people and people work for three, possibly even four different companies are never home to raise their families. So on and so forth. So it's time to take a good look and hopefully our legislature will focus on some of these issues. And not just on the, like with the displace with the NAFTA trade. The amount of money that workers who were displaced were eligible for, like this big and their loss was like this big. We need to do a better job of ensuring the standard of living for the global community and certainly for the richest nation on earth. Because we create pockets of third world poverty in this country. So that's the short and long. So what I wanted to say, and keep us on time. Is there a specific model, so what? I'm just going to get a little bit of that. So we're talking about here. Let's say that 50% of people who are now in the right are crooks. Because it's like 170,000. Yeah, it's a lot of people. So let's say 50% of them lose their, you know, that's a huge thing in terms. And obviously it's more so in some places than others. But it's that big. What is that? Is there an example of a kind of program that has work with displaced workers that would be an effective substitute? I get that training for is part of it. But then again, if you're in an overall reduction of workers in the economy, training is only going to be part of the answer. You don't want to say, I would think that more of these people can go out and form a welfare. That's not really what you're looking for. No. So what is an example of a kind of program that could meet this need and has an effective impact? So I think, well, how do you tell you is what I think of when you ask this question to me is sitting in the legislature and listening to people talk about the need of 10,000 workers between Vermont a year. And we spend, I don't know, we spend a lot of our budget on schools. And we work really hard. And our kids do a good job in school. But still, we haven't met that training need or what we need for today in the state of Vermont. So I can't say that there's a magic bullet, silver bullet, or anything of that nature. But we have to be more thoughtful. And something that we need to do as we, this problem of not having workers in Vermont, it didn't just happen today. But we have to address it, and we have to keep up with it. And how we did that in Vermont, in particular, and look at the technological people that we don't have. We have an aging population. And this population is going to need some of those people from the TED talk to help take care of them. So we really have to start gearing ourselves in two directions, one in the nurturing field and one in the second life. So how do we do that? Well, Romania, apparently, has an idea of how you get this job done. But they have better internet than we do, because they invested in it, too. So how do we best, where do we best? How do we do that? And why don't you know the answer, Mel? But I know that we are a thoughtful state, and we will work on it. And hopefully, we will do something better than what we have done. I think the curriculum is a really key piece to my opinion. I mean, to some extent, you want to take a big chunk of that, $16 trillion worldwide and put it in Vermont, ideally. So the curriculum, the training, the people to actually take a piece of that is a huge thing. And I think to start as early as high school, I mean, we've described a very complex principle, but it really isn't that complex to actually use. So that is enough. Training is penetrating. I mean, you said, well, along your visions here, it could be that we just have less work. People have more time. There are fewer workers needed in the economy. And how do we then deal with the intercession? So how does Jordan work then? So the question becomes, really, as you transition towards that period, you're going to go through, yeah, drivers losing potentially their livelihood. And but you will also see a lot of people still be able to work in the creative fields and the passionate fields. And a lot of these fields where you need the human touch. But at the same time, you also have people that do creative things that need help. And that would be where a lot of the training for AI would help. You would shift jobs in those positions away from the positions that really don't need as much creativity and also don't need as much compassion. So maybe you can target those groups and start training them to move into a direction where they will be ultimately needed. But eventually, ideally, if we get to the point where you have all this income that's coming in and you don't have people needing to work, then things like basic universal income come to mind. And I know a lot of countries are throwing that around component as well. That sounds, not a judgment, but it just sounds like socialism in a way, right? It's like, somehow we're generating all this revenue. Because we can't picture that because we need to spend billions of dollars in infrastructure. And we need roads that we don't have. There's just so much work that needs to be done today. It's hard to picture it. Yeah, I know. But still, it's generating all this revenue. I get that. And it's going to all be robotic. And somebody's still going to pull those companies that's generating all that revenue.  So we don't have to work.  He put the industrial work.  That sounds great. We'll trigger up that and fill people with their jobs. But at that point, what do you do for those people if they don't have income? So I was saying, just in the short term or practically speaking, we've had an easy interpretation of our time by the people that can drive clouds. And we've sat two people on each of our trucks and they've found a one. And it's really difficult. In recent times, pie farmers, they would come up. And they had those basic skills. And it's hard to find people now. And it's hard to find people just to drive trucks, period. We heard that. We heard last time it's hard to find people who want to farm. And so I mean, I'm kind of worried that's more of an opportunity than a risk at the moment, which is people don't want to do those jobs. Technology is kind of coming into that over time. And so why push people in that direction? And so it's less of a retraining thing because we don't have enough people in those jobs anyway right now. So it's not like we need to retraining, or I have to do something different. It's more about how do we train workforce in the future? We have 4,000 people. We need 10,000 workers a year in Vermont. We have 4,000 people each year who fall off the rolls. They need a job, a purpose, a reason to get up and go to work and feel productive when they've got something at the end of their day, I would say. So the situation already exists. And we need to address it and find a way to get people to out there at work so they feel like there was a point for them to go to work. Is that the result of innovation and AI, or is that just the... I think there's something to do with the education system, okay? I would say that's my... Is there really going to be more of a need for retraining because of this? There's a need for training right now. Forget retraining. There's a need for training. Are we going to have another opportunity to explore this topic more in depth? Because there was a few things you both have said that I'd like to get into and we don't have time, which are like one of them I'm not going to get into, but I'm just going to state those things. One was this idea. I heard you say something about socialism and redistributing wealth. I would ask the question, is it fair that we have a society set up that's allowing certain people to develop systems to extract wealth on the backs of others and accumulate that wealth? We always have that. Let me just finish my question. You both just had a big chunk of time. So is it fair, is it a question for the group to think about as part of the AI and especially I think? Is it fair that we continue to allow systems to exist and let AI enhance that? Is it fair that we have AI that's being used to exploit and extract and accumulate wealth without a plan for humanity and the earth after? That's a question. It's not, I don't expect this to get into it. The other question is, are we going to look at a universal basic income? I am not advocating for it. I'm asking about it. Because it's something that comes up often and there have been people who asked me if this group is going to look at that. I said, you know, we're looking at AI very broadly and that's a whole other thing that's separate from AI but is it going to come up? And so those are two things from your sort of both you two going back and forth that was coming up in my head. Well, I think that that is, who knows when that's coming? I guess my point is it's hard to picture right now when we have all this work that needs to be done whether it's training people or fixing roads but it's hard to picture it. But when AI gets its wings, it's going to fly and it's going to happen fast. That's what I would say to you. So do we have, can we have, maybe this transitions to the last part of the day because we're going to talk about, Senator General, we're going to talk about future topics and kind of break up tasks. So maybe we could just go, I'll stop and ask at that point, can we look at some of these things more? Because I feel like we just opened something up. The idea I understood was that in these earlier meetings, we were going through the areas of application and by doing that, we would draw out these general issues that cross all the lines and are ones. And this is one of those things and that we would use the rest of our time. Having, we'll have a few more meetings after that to start doing exactly what you're talking about. And I agree, this is one of the, we need to talk. Okay. That's my perspective. We need to talk about it, but as a person who spent their life in the environmental, the health care, and the education systems, for those three things, I'm a socialist, but I live in a country that's market driven and I don't feel that we're going to be able to solve the fact that we live in a country that's market driven. We're going to worry about what we can do to come on to maybe decide the role model for what can work in a system we're stuck in. Not stuck in, I mean, it's a way of being very free of. Yeah, we may not. Yeah, that we're not going to change the rest of the country. We may not solve much of anything, but I think that one of the biggest things we are, we will do is bring to the light issues and that might spark national and international discussion or feed it to that, so. There was actually, I noticed in the first book, I might not have put that in the thing, there was a lot of international work going on this subject, there's a lot of US work. That's insane. That's insane, my friend. That's a lot of international work going on, I think that's what it is. I think we started this by saying, I think we can steal IVs, this is probably scary, so they know the work in our, is that for now? Okay, can we move on? Yeah. Okay. Have we actually approved these minutes? Yeah, we have, no, we should do it now. Yeah. Let's do that right after this one. I see he's putting his stuff away, so you're good. You got seven, you got seven.  Yeah, I've done it, so. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, we have seven. Yeah, can you sing around for a little bit? Yeah, I just want to come in closer. I'm so excited, I love how you all look. I think it's a little more important than the approval of the minutes. One thing, back in, I think it was October, October meeting, we decided to talk about all these issues, we need to talk to all these speakers about the industry, in these industries, certain industries we have not allocated for future meetings, and I wanted to discuss if we should, and if we should, which is quite a lot, the industries, and some can make chair, members. One issue, one proof that come to mind without looking are criminal justice. So in the last week, we just organized the first three of them, and there's, I think, two or three of them left. While you were talking, I went back to the minutes on exactly that point, and I understand that we agreed to five areas, agonized resources, the number one we did, transportation technology manufacturer in today's, social education, criminal justice, medical, health insurance, services retail, and food. So I'm now taking that from the minutes that they're, at the end of the year, for the time being. So we've got, if we stay on that schedule, we've got one more of the three that is the medical, health insurance one to do, and then we're gonna do two others, and we just need to get together the committees for that. And I look, because I'd like to do the work on the criminal justice, and I don't care for it. So Jean and I have been working on doing to help health insurance and medical. So we plan. And you're next time? Yeah, we plan for that, so we're gonna do that. I would like to participate in that, too. And there's two more after that. Go ahead. We have like five to seven people we've been reaching out to. I don't know if we've got a confirmed list, but we're doing that work, and we're happy to that. So it means, what we have to do is call Jean. He's kind of coordinating it, and talk with him, and then bring storm with him. But we will end up by our next meeting with some witnesses. And we may not get everything we want, we're trying. There's some really good witnesses popping up, though. Good. So what's happening in the moment? I heard your motion for yourself to be the subcommittee chair of the criminal justice. I know, we're talking about. I think so, that's what I heard. That's what I heard. That's what I heard. Discussion? Yeah. Okay. I think that's exactly what's occurred before I could say no. All right, yes. So we need, does anybody else interest in this? I would be doing that, sir. Yeah. We need the social, your views seem to be, on most of these subcommittees, that this is very fair to support, though. But I didn't do much on theirs, because I didn't really have expertise. I'd like to help you. I may not join your meetings, but I have some ideas. I talked with the judiciary, and maybe we could just talk outside of this meeting about what I've heard. Okay. And the education side. Okay, deal with it. Like a student? Like a student? Or a student in the room? Oh, my Lord, you're having, you're having a call. I'm interested in being a part of that, but probably none of the chair, I can't. No, no, this is, now you're recruiting other people. I accepted. Oh, I see. First of all, people who aren't here, right? Right. Yeah. That's very just a way to do it. Yeah. Okay, well, we'll get that. And we're talking, we haven't set a meeting yet for the next two times, the next two, right? February of March. We went for January. Yeah, we have January, I see it. So this would be February. So we want to try to do that now. Yeah, because we start recruiting people, we need to know how we're recruiting them, right? You're finding that. It's what happened with the rescheduling, actually, that you know clearly you're recruiting. Yeah, I would definitely suggest we pick the February of March dates now, even if we don't know the exact topics for March, maybe February could be criminal justice since we have an eager volunteer, you know? And a few people are ready to see we're all today. So I think there's eight of them. Eight of them. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. There's a six in the same. Okay. One was John. One was John. Gene, Trey. Oh, John was here. That's right. Yeah, I know. ACCD. Yeah, I'm playing, so. Yeah. We're sticking to Fridays, and it's still generally the best Friday for you. It's just for simplicity, and we can see if we work the best or no. Is that our next one? Is it? Yeah, it's a Friday and January is the next one. Next one's next term. When is now? I don't want to have it. The next one's Friday, the 18th. 18th of January. So about a month from the beginning. So I'm looking up on that. I'm trying to find all of them. If we start with Fridays for the February meeting, it would be either the 15th or 22nd. I think I would rather do the 22nd. Is that okay? I think that's him. Now we'll, you know, legislatures in session, people are going strong. The idea of Friday afternoon was that, that would hopefully be more, but. Okay, 22nd. Now. That would be criminal justice? Yes, criminal justice. Social services and education. That's the three, as I understand it. Now the last one, I think was last, last form that is services, retail, and food. Now I don't remember what goes in that, I guess we did that. I don't know, so I'm not sure what this is. I guess that McDonald's story we heard earlier. So this might be, this services, retail food might be a place for us to talk a little bit more about the labor issues that we were just starting to touch upon. Yeah. What were we thinking March? Yeah, that was the, I don't know. I don't mind serving on this committee, but I am not driving to Montpelier to sit in a room with a telephone again. Okay? Just saying.  I don't know if that works too. But you have to. I live in Middlebury, so I don't wanna do that. We don't have to have meetings, though, because there's actually what came out of me and John and Donna's effort, was that it's way more efficient if the chair just calls people individually, and that's what Gene's been doing. We haven't had one subcommittee meeting for healthcare. He just calls people. Well, I was on that committee, and so I haven't been called yet. So, because I did sign up for that originally. You can check with Gene about that. Yeah. And I would actually suggest you do, because I don't think he's intentionally leaving you out. I was saying that you don't, because you don't put the word out, it doesn't get to everybody. Come on, guys, that's fine. So I guess what I'm saying is I would recommend that instead of just having subcommittee meetings and doing that huge process, maybe it could just be the chair, because we're just talking about lining up witnesses, not making huge decisions. So maybe the chair- Well, no, yeah, none of us actually is, yeah. All I did was ask people if they would attend to the line-up. Yeah. Because I had to be frank with them. Yeah, we're interested in that. We never physically met. We never went into everything we did. Yeah. Back to scheduling. We had the February 22nd for criminal justice. Would it make sense to do Friday, March 22nd, or 29th for the following one? I like the 22nd, because it's spring. We've got a spring celebration. Well, when's crossover? Crossover is the week before town meeting, then. So that's like two or three weeks after the crossover. And we had talked about after town meeting, they're doing more step around in those final months, doing some more stuff out in the community. But I do think, not to get distracted, I think we should do a March 22nd meeting, and maybe in February, can we put it on our agenda to talk about what we're gonna do in March and April for outreach? Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. And we, I don't know if you can get a committee, do you wanna get the match committed together or do you wanna do that next time? You mean like pick the topic? Well, the topic is, was the sign that services retail. Oh, okay, okay, my God. Right. I didn't know what to do. In a way, retail is the number one money issue in AI, I would say, in the sense that all that stuff we get, and all those avatars, and all that kind of stuff is all generated out of us, assuming we're putting together data and then manipulating it to try to get our, and the worst impulses to determine our spending. So in a way, retail is actually a very big AI issue, I think. And I also think it's where you'll see the workers, the fewer workers. Oh, sure. That's part of, that's part of the issue too. And we could talk about exact, more directly talk about that, but it comes up because it's not been a specific subject, it comes up on the margins so far, we could do it in the number one. Should we put off forming that committee just for a meeting for there maybe to be people or people who are here? Sounds like there's a lack of interest. We're good for, we're good for the next one and the February justice, I think we can wait on that. So we'll have to do it on the next one for sure. That's, that's fine. I mean, in the next one, I just, someone made a comment how I've been on every subcommittee, so I'm trying to step back. I hope you get that. Yeah, yeah. I'm happy to help more. And if, for what it's worth, maybe instead of being on a subcommittee, what if I just ask around in the community, like, what do you think we should be, who should we hear from? So whoever is the subcommittee, we might have some ideas where they start, because I didn't see anyone jumping up like, I know exactly who to bring in. You know? I have no clue who to bring in for that. For the, for the, for services. I know I'm going to ask about education too, but I don't know. Yeah, for the education, I'm actually, for me, I've been there to be the hardest to find people in the community. Yeah, I mean, I kind of, I never thought of that. So, so we're not going to do the March one. That's the only reason why the public's here for you. I think that's a whole, and the day is good, right? So I'm just thinking about, so we have 10 meetings, and so we're talking about January, February, March, so three, this is our four, so that's seven meetings. And then the last three will have to be much more directed at getting solutions on the March one public. It seems like, I don't know what much more public engagement means if it's, you know, one meeting or... Well, I think you need to put these things out, put press releases out, let the public know healthcare is a hot topic, okay? And when there's a meeting about healthcare, I think you could probably fill the well in the state house. But you got to get the word out. I mean, seven days, wants to know what we're up to. I don't see them here. One way we can do it, and I've said this before, is that we should be announced by the Department of Digger that is announced in September for each meeting. And so what was it about? And all of that, I think we would get... So I did communicate to the Agency of Commerce and Community Development, and they said they don't do press releases. So I didn't, I kind of put a press release out from my AFL-CIO, and I'm willing to do that, but I didn't want to do that without talking about it first here. And we had had, I don't know who else was in it with you and I on the phone. We did have that one meeting you were referring to, and we talked about some ideas. In our last meeting here, you were absent. All I said was we were gonna try to bring the public access in. But perhaps there's a value to us reconvening between meetings and coming back to the next meeting with very clear things we're going to do to increase that. So I guess I would ask, does this group, is it okay with this group if I put a press release out about our next meeting, January 18th? Sure, hi. Okay, thank you. And Milo, what did you hear about the public meeting? If you think there's gonna be people coming, then I miss the space at least a little extra room. Yeah, yeah. It's better than the one upstairs. Yeah. I think health care is a good temperature. Well, all I would ask is that, I mean, maybe this is asking too much, but I would ask because it is on behalf of the whole group, you send it to us with the BCC, so we're not breaking public meeting law or use the Slack, and let us give you some feedback before it goes out. And also that we make sure people know that there's only gonna be a 10 minute public comment because it's common with health care where people start coming and arguing for universal health care if we can't stay together, which I support just for the record. But I don't think this is the space to have 100 people come and try to say that publicly when that's not what we're actually talking about. I'd like to say that we are authorizing you to do this as the subcommittee chair on public meeting. Well, then I would put it out on the AFL-CI. Because it looks like it's an agency. And I didn't think it was a public meeting at all. Yeah, yeah. So if you put it in Slack and then you call yourself a subcommittee, whatever, that would be great. Taylor? So they seem to prioritize picking up the bullet room. Would you guys prefer to be here? I think we should meet here if we want to invite the public because otherwise we're setting people up for, I don't know how others feel. I mean, I like that it's much more glamorous, but... There's more space here. I'm not supposed to come over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm glad we're just kind of looking at it. Maybe on the, is everything settled here? Maybe the last item, a little real quickly. We'll get a couple of minutes from last meeting. Does everyone have a copy? Thank you. Yes. Thank you.


So for someone who is in the property industry, what are those things that you guys could say have changed because of technology? Okay. I think one of the tools that I'll just zone into a bit is obviously the company that I'm a part of which is PropTinspect. Welcome to the Private Property Podcast. My name is Dume and if you are seeing my face for the first time then welcome to the podcast that brings you everything property related. We are talking investing, we are talking buying, selling and whatever it is in the property industry that you need, we bring you experts who are going to give us underpass information that will help you make decisions to ultimately grow your property portfolio. Tonight we are talking new opportunities that are taking place in the property technology space and I'm joined by Brian Sango who's going to be taking us through this. Brian is the strategic partnerships and sales manager in PropTinspect. Brian, good evening and welcome. Hi, good evening. Hi, how are you? Thank you so much for having me. It is an ultimate pleasure. Thank you so much for agreeing to talk to us tonight. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can hear you clearly. Awesome. So kicking off our conversation tonight, technology is one of those things that is just really accelerating globalization and the way the world does its things. It's changed so much for us and I just want to know from your perspective, for someone who is in strategic partnerships and really sales, how has technology changed your day to day operations? Okay. You're absolutely right. Technology is a topic that's been doing the rounds for quite some time. It's certainly changed quite a lot because one thing technology does especially generally as well as in the property space is technology helps streamline a number of operations, helps automate systems and essentially helps save a lot of time. So people are starting to really move away from manual processes that they were using before and adopting more of your paperless solutions or mobile app driven applications that they can use within the property space to perform various roles. And especially during when we went into COVID and a number of people had limitations around movement and interactions with other people with colleagues, they definitely then saw the importance of such platforms and tools to use. So yeah, it's been a good time for us as a company and I think it's just been a good time for the industry as a whole in terms of migrating from how we're doing things to this new way of doing things for a number of times. Yeah. Cool. So for the benefit of our family watching, our private property family watching, just talk to us about some of those processes that you guys have migrated onto the technology space. Just a couple of days ago, we spoke about how the pandemic changed the property auction spaces. And one of the biggest things was that now they can do things online, they can move the auctions online. So for someone who is in the property industry, what are those things that you guys could say have changed because of technology? Okay. I think one of the tools that I'll just zone into a bit is obviously the company that I'm a part of, which is property inspect. And what we are, it's a mobile application and software that any entity that does property inspections would use. So you name it from valuations to rental agents that do move in about inspections. Now with the Property Practitioners Act that is coming to play, you have certain inspections that you need to do or to carry out your due diligence when you're filling out your disclosure form, just before you sign a rental mandate or just before a property is sold. And as opposed to walking into a property like a number of people would do for many, many years with the pen and paper, clipboard and file, someone's just ticking things and then they take photos, they get back to the office, they have to put all that, consolidate all that information into an Excel spreadsheet. We've done away completely with that. All you simply walk into the property with is your mobile device, which is customized, depending on whatever inspection that it is that you are carrying out. And you're taking photos and it enables you to take photos, it enables you to take videos, you've got a voice to text functionality, it works fully offline, so connectivity is never an issue. And it allows for any parties, be it the tenant, the owner, the landlord, they can sign digitally using their finger. And at the click of a button, those reports are automatically created and distributed to intended recipients. So that's really a game changer globally because now that just enables people to be able to carry out inspections much quicker. For banks that are using us, it means the turnaround time for them to be able to grant finance for various mortgage applications is much shorter as well because they're getting the necessary data sent back to them timeously. So yeah, that's just one. And then you've obviously got a number of other tools, like for any signing of documents, we've got Hello Sign, we've got DocuSign that a number of people in the industry use. This was also very widely used, especially during lockdown, where people could not necessarily meet for signing of offer to purchases or lease agreements and so forth. We've got automated platforms, the likes, there's a company out there called Rios, they're a payment platform and a property management platform that has also come into play to just streamline how the payment process happens between tenants and landlords receiving and vice versa when they have to pay back deposits and so forth. So that's another big one that's in the space. We've got Flow Living which is just bridging the gap between social media advertising and how the traditional advertising model for real estate agencies was working. And they've been doing a lot in terms of automating that and that helps towards lead generation. And I think lastly, another one that I will mention now, I mean, there are lots and I'm so glad to say this because it's very encouraging for us who are part of the industry to see so many startups and so many companies thriving in the public tech space. But the last one is around tenant issue reporting and maintenance ticketing. So now I'm the tenant, I'm sitting here in my property, I have an issue, my gizzards burst, I don't have to pick up the phone or send an email. All I simply do is go on to my phone, I log that query, which will automatically shoot off to my property management company that handles this property. And once it's received, it will create a maintenance ticket, which will again be automatically assigned to the contractor who's responsible for that. So a water issue will go to the plumber, an electrical issue will straight away go to the electrician and it triggers me to also be able to then put together a quotation that they sent back to the agent, allowing them to approve or decline. So that whole process has become much, much easier than it used to be before. You would sit two months waiting for your landlord to address an issue that's happened in your property. Yeah. Nice. I like the fact that you said game changes because from how you're explaining them, they really do sound like game changes and sound like something that would really elevate the industry and just put it on a different whole benchmark together, even for the country. So zooming into now adoption, let's talk about adoption. How does that adoption rate look for these different apps that you're talking about? Some of them that you mentioned, I'm quite familiar with them. I've seen them maybe when I was moving from one place to the other. But let's talk about overall adoption because this industry also has a vast majority of people. And when I mean majority of people, in terms of the people, it legit looks even like silos because you either have people who've been in the industry for over 30, 40 years who still believe in doing things traditionally. But you now have the younger generation that's coming in and even the people who are in the middle have adopted the traditional way of doing things. So how does that adoption look and what are those tactics that you guys are currently using? And when I mean you guys, I mean the people in the industry too, to start reeling everybody in, to start showing them this new way of doing things and digitizing. No, adoption has certainly been a challenge in a way or rather challenge is negative. It's been quite interesting to note how their adoption takes place. So I guess from my expertise, being part of a global offering because we actually in 44 countries worldwide already. And when you look into the African market and then obviously closer to home when you look at South Africa, I think adoption is always strongly influenced by our price sensitivity. So we're obviously an economy that has a bit of challenges here in the a number of people, the general consensus is always I need to keep my running or operational costs at the bare minimum without necessarily compromising what it is that I need to do. And what they normally now do is they've got this hierarchy of offerings that they would in an ideal world want to jump on, but anything that falls lower on the list, they'll normally just find an manual way of doing it. So certain applications or certain systems where they feel, you know what my Excel spreadsheet is still the best way to do my accounting, then they've done away with that. So convincing people to obviously convincing a price sensitive market for them to not look at it as a cost, but look at it as a value that they're adding to their business is still a challenge that a number of companies are obviously trying to navigate around. That's one.  I think our peers and millennials generally do them that. We have TikTok, we have Facebook, we understood Facebook way before a number of other guys. And so with them or with us rather, we embrace technology far, far better than our other fellow people within the industry. And so price sensitivity and trying to get people that have been doing things a certain way for decades to say, listen, what you've known for 40 years and what you've perfected, do away with that. Here's an easier solution that's going to cost you a bit that you need to move to. So doing that is not easy.  Because once they see the value in it, once they see the benefits of migrating from a manual system onto a technological platform or technological offering, then they'll at least open up their eyes and start to appreciate what it is that you're trying to bring into the equation. No, definitely. And my next question is that with digitization, people already start thinking this is going to be costly, this is going to be expensive. How feasible is it in terms of cost, in terms of efficiency and productivity? Because they might be downtime because people don't really understand these technologies and can use them properly. So what is your view in terms of us bringing these in? How feasible are they in terms of the property industry? I think one major aspect that normally is a key driver is obviously informing as best as possible your target client or what it is that you have to offer. Taking them through a demo of what it looks like, maybe as much as giving them a free trial so they can walk the walk themselves and actually see what the whole process entails. And then once you've done that, it's holding their hand throughout the process. So and by holding their hand, what I mean by that is just being able to be there to support them. So it will be definitely difficult to encourage the market to buy something off the shelf and say, here's a system, take it, run with it and go out there and teach yourself, show yourself the ropes and so forth. But if you are actually holding their hand, you've got 24-7 supports that you're offering them, maybe you've got like a helpline or a little chat bot that can respond to their queries on time, that will definitely help as well because you want them to know that they've got the necessary support that they need and that they deserve, which is why a number of products like in Australia and the US that sell their offerings to the South African market, they're not well received in South Africa, especially because most of those either have only representation in the country of origin. So now you have to wait for them to respond to your email because calling there might be a bit too costly, etc. But now for companies that are within South Africa, where they have someone you can sit down with face to face, or you can pick up a phone and know that Brian's going to be on the other end of the call, that's easier for people to trust, that's easier. It just nudges people a bit more for them to say, oh, okay, these guys are going to hold my hand, therefore these guys are going to help me prove this concept because they are there all the time. So subscription-based systems will obviously work better as opposed to a once-off. And now when you're subscription-based and you're paying monthly, it means there has to be some form of involvement from whatever the service provider is, and it justifies them also being able to be there to support you throughout the way. Definitely, definitely. Thank you so much for that. And as you said earlier, it's in us following that same approach that we see that technology is really here to help us and really here to grow whatever we are currently busy with. And in this case, it is the property industry and making sure that those property portfolios grow, those sales keep coming in, and we just strengthen our processes, and each and every single thing that we are currently doing in that space. Brian, thank you so much for joining us. The reviews on social media, everybody's already saying this information is really necessary, and that technology, they actually really share your same sentiment. So thank you so much for coming through, and we really appreciate it. Have a good evening. Thank you so much for having me, and yes, a good evening to you too. Thank you. So that brings us to the end of today's episode. Thank you so, so much for getting to this part of the live broadcast, and if you are joining us on the Twitter Spaces, do ensure that you keep coming back every weekday at 7 p.m. so that you can hear the on-the-pass information around the property industry. My name is Dhumi WMJ, and thank you so much for joining us tonight. Have a good one.