Well, ladies and gentlemen a panel discussion is on mobile branding beyond Google and Facebook Where we're going to explore questions like are there really any options beyond Google and Facebook for mobile branding in India? If yes, what are those? Have clients and agencies tried anything different and has it worked? How important is mobile branding to clients and agencies and where do we currently stand and what's the future? From brands advertising in mobile We're also going to look at how they need to diversify across platforms moving Beyond Google and Facebook and are there spends increasing on mobile and possibly we're also going to explore case studies if time permits This session ladies and gentlemen Will be moderated by the general manager of cheetah mobiles asia-pacific and global performance business Who with over 10 years of experience across product management sales and marketing? Has successfully established cheetah mobiles at sales and marketing teams as an industry leading mobile Advertising team ladies and gentlemen our moderator for this session is modern Shen GMA pack cheetah mobile and Now also going to call upon our panelists for this discussion We have the marketing manager digital reliance mutual fund Himanshu Agarwal We also have the head marketing at Birla Sun Life asset management company the investment manager of Birla Sun Life mutual fund Mali Kapoor We're also going to be joined by the VP and digital marketing head Godwish Pankaj Parihar Joining us also for this discussion is chief digital officer mind share Vinod Tadani We also have with us MD ISO bars from Suddin Jassani and That also like to call forward the head of audience development discovery with Narayan Sirdesh Pandey Ladies and gentlemen, can we have a round of applause for our panel mr. Shen all yours? So shall we get started now? Is it okay cool? So? Hi, everybody. It's more than Chen as you can see. I guess I'm the only very few Chinese faces here so I'm working on the cheetah mobile cheetah mobile is a mobile publisher. So we make apps we make apps that Lots of lots of people using we have more than 600 million Users worldwide and in India itself. We have a lot. We have more than 80 million So we are big in India as well And we also serve as a publisher to serve our advertisers and agencies To help people to help advertisers reach your audiences. Okay using a very good very good very strong Mobile advertising solution that we can have but today the topic is all about Why Google and why Facebook? So we I recently found out a piece of news from e-marketers e-marketers says in North America Back in 2016. So 99% of the mobile investment from advertisers Goes to Facebook and Google. I I don't have the same number for India as well because they don't have that Figure I tried e-marketers that doesn't give that to me But I will say that's very similar could be very similar here So my first question to the panelists today will be Why why? What what was the forces that make that happen? Why advertisers? Kind of like being kidnapped by using Only Facebook and Google on mobile. So here we have a agency site and Customer site, how about let's start from agency site Yep Go ahead. This will be a very interesting talk. So everybody please jump up with your question Hello, yeah so Just to answer your question. I won't say that it is 90% or 95% for The big two which you named and for obvious reasons. I think We as an industry or we as an agency and the clients Definitely don't want to You know put all the eggs under one or two big baskets, but having said that I think currently in India specifically in India today There are a lot many more publishers and potential So-called digital Either OTT players or websites which are big and be definitely Partner with them advertise with them and we will continue to do so that is number one number two I think with the growing rate of Programmatic advertising, I think it's no more that if you're a big publisher is where you have the share of wallet I think it's going to be audiences first With the right kind of data as segmenting for advertisers I think it depends on which publishers gets benefited with the right kind of audiences. They have number two number three I think India being so diverse as a country Google Facebook can more or less rely on You know Advertising on data, but there is so much more on tier two tier three where we partner with many other Publishers and mobile companies as well and number four. I think very very Clearly, it's not that We don't want to partner other people, but we also worried about other things which are currently hit the digital world, which is brand safety viability and other measurement matrix and I would love to Speak understand more from other publishers What are their take and we are ready to definitely support them and advertise with them in the client interest. Thank you Okay, these are very good point, but I want to echo a little bit So yeah, yeah chance you can help too. We talk about viability. We talk about brand safety and As far as I know It's like Google and Facebook. They keep many many data by themselves. They keep the dashboard They keep the reporting by themselves third-party tracking Yeah, so how about let's address a little bit about the transparency and the data and how much like data That worked by like by working with different publishers that data could bring bring to you Comparing with what working with Google and Facebook? No, so I think I just want to first designate what I know that we said was as As an agency, we're always a little ahead of the curve Agree with a lot of the points the challenge which really faces a very old challenge Which used to exist even an auto home where and I'll be absolutely honest here is the the The client actually says, okay, I can't see my holding. There is my campaign and majority of the clients who are not You know really looking at who are entering digital that really is the challenge and for them Google and Facebook is an easy answer Because Google and Facebook is a very known entity for them. So it actually starts on them and this I mean by default Yes, they are very strong. They have products. I don't think that it's just going to say it's going to go away They are still going to command a large portion because it works it frankly speaking it works. So With all the other advertisers all the other publishers that are there. Yes, they're adding a lot of value So I wouldn't say that it's going to come down drastically. But yes, there is a there's a lot of other Publishers out there cheetah is there who are now working towards actually delivering at the end of the day The client wants to know is my ad really going to the right audience or not because as we as he pointed out programmatic It's the way forward. It's about audiences and not necessarily about being seen at a particular place As far as ad fraud as far as the ability goes big issue across the world in India that is now being discussed on a On a day-to-day level and I think That's something that needs to happen There is some there as an as an industry we're working towards that Google and Facebook the good thing that they've done have They've been honest about their mistakes So there have been mistakes that have been committed. They've been honest and said, okay No, wait a minute. This is an issue that's happened before anyone else has discovered that that's kind of also Played into the whole aura of Google and Facebook. So that's something that is there Yes, what's working on everyone else is that there is third-party measurement. There is viewability that you can track You know fraud is something the click farm just got discovered in Thailand, for example These things are getting discovered and you need technology to do that and their technology needs to be across all the platforms Yeah, so that's cool. So Aside from agency side, we still have lots of customers today So I would actually want to have each Representative in this table who represent. Hey, I'm a customer saying talk a little bit about What is like in in 2017 and what is like most innovation most innovative like mobile campaigns We are you guys have run for this year You can not it could it could be innovative or it could be something that special Okay, and what are the platform you have chosen just to make it brief a little bit show What you have done and why you've done so let's start with maybe Yeah, yeah so Most you know where they are close close it to the heart. I would say we've we're working on it Yeah, it's it's not been in the market. We are almost about to launch this application And it's well, it's a branded application, but not in the brand side. It's It's from the mosquito killer brand called hit Which has almost 92% market share We are creating an application in fact we are about to launch that application It's going to be in the space of platelet donor community idea and we are not we're not talking about, you know Brand being pushed through that application, but we want users to understand the Importance of platelet donation so people understand what is blood donation? Why it is critical, but people because Dengue has a Disease is really really critical and we still don't have Antidote for that But yeah, so as the the only thing which saves life is platelet in terms of that and we are creating that particular thing Through this application. We want users to understand the importance of platelet donation So that is one interesting piece of communication, which we are driving, but of course it's it's in the It's it's about to get launched. So yeah, that's one interesting piece coming to your first question That's an interesting one and and you need to have a client's perspective on that one Why Google and Facebook's two particular thing which I think really Has I mean have worked for? Google and Facebook one being first mover advantage. Yeah, two and the most important one, you know for a brand It is important to communicate where your consumers are. Okay, so If my users and consumers and customers are there on these two platforms, you know, I would want to prioritize that I would want to go there. Having said that You know for last couple of years, we are seeing a lot of proliferation happening beyond YouTube and Facebook and there are options. I mean you talk about OTD platforms. You talk about Applications you talk about long tail you talk about news genres which are coming on a Brand like daily hunt. There are lots and lots of options which are available and we have consciously started moving beyond these two big platforms so From that's that's from the good rich That's cool. So basically I hear one thing very key is you did build up an app and do customer engagement and That's something that's innovative. Okay, so how about him a show? Let's give us some cases Okay, so I let this the question to two parts first is of course why You know mobile branding has not been exploded the way it should be considering the fact that Currently all the large websites have more than 80 to 90 percent of the traffic come from mobile alone So, you know, so to define a problem statement I feel that mobile as a platform has not been explored to its full potential I mean we are still here in 2017 only talking about Media and innovations or publishers at best app But looking knowing the device what I have a mobile. It has more than you know So it has it has the power of touch feel movement. So a lot of things so innovations around that and coming up with you know, lot of multiple touch points for a You know Relevant engagement is where I feel a lot of us are lacking behind Having said that giving an insight view of reliance mutual fund So how do you ask this question sometime last year? Why are we not just restricting ourself for Facebook or Google or probably over indexed on the desktop? The primary reason was as punkage rightly said that it had certain tests and credibility and We wanted to go with a safer option but with the likes of Geo other government initiatives and you you have seen the YouTube masters Mastered the spike what has given you know in past so right now. I think we are at 420 million or the mobile users in India so from having said that so it was a Mobile has now not become so it has become the only weapon in terms of reaching out to the tier 2 3 beyond 15 cities per se so Addressing the second point in terms of adubation so having realized this sometime in the month of September when we launched our own app Called simply save which was a customer innovation on instant redemption typically when you invest in mutual fund You take about two to three days to get that money back So we had a service innovation where you can redeem instantly instead of you know waiting for two three days and gives you written more than Your typical You know banks or probably it's a small setup so I can safely save FDs or so basically in investment FD you get about 4% 6% or savings account This this has a fire over past three years is to about 8.5 So that's the indexed written you get so we launched this up Then we realized the power of mobile because the transaction volume so typically the large myth. I'm sure the agency folks will agree All the transactions are driven through Desktop so desktop to a typical point of purchase at the stop and not mobile But if I look at my internal data for past about eight months We have seen that mobile contributes to about 40% of the transactions happening across mutual fund as a as a brand So that's that's a pretty big number which also cooperates with the Google In terms of the explosion happening and and in terms of media innovation. We do a lot of You know innovations on media. So we did some time back High beam frequency sort of testing where Multi-screen testing basically a my add coming on TV my and competition and then serving it with a contextual message on mobile And we want to sort of experimented which one is working, you know better then I think we were the first one to sort of Do the app logger innovation so when we were launching to build the authority affinity so So we've been so because for mobile for us. It's all about Engagement contextual a gauge engagement and having those micro segments unlike your typical, you know all the other platforms you have so We've been experimenting on on radio in terms of again, it's there are radio apps, you know online radio apps and Seeing whether you know if frequency of four frequency of two What does help in terms of the companion banner? So these are the broad innovations, you know what I can tell I can get into details needed. Thanks So actually that's the second time we heard about hey We have our own app and this app is for more user engagement understand our user better getting more data I'm not sure whether we have the same thing happen, but welcome to share about Molly. How about your company? Oh, you know, I know you asked a very direct question, but probably I'll just Because you know everybody has apps and everybody is trying to experiment with you know Different ways of presenting the same thing. So we have a lot of similar things which Reliance has But you know, I do tend to agree with what we know mentioned that for us as a brand the consumer comes first and Therefore we understand the journeys and we all know sitting in this room that we have different behaviors at different points in time So we are not constantly on Facebook or we are not constantly on Google right throughout the day If you start the day probably with the newspaper, then you have Facebook then you have probably a desktop Then you have newspaper or something, you know television So if you understand that journey and understand where your consumers are Then I feel you can give a good proposition and you necessarily don't need to have your own platforms There are good partners who we should smartly partner with and You know and you reach the consumer. So that's your end point. That's your outcome However, having said that we do have apps But again, we try to focus on simplifying the experience more than you know Saying that okay, we just go with an app or we just go with another platform How do we do do a seamless experience where the website where the rap you see us on television You see us on radio. So, you know, what is it that we want to deliver to the consumers? So that matters the most to us as a brand If mobile fits in very good. If it doesn't We'll not miss it. Yeah So Yeah, thanks I think a lot has been spoken again in terms of Google Facebook or other platforms, etc, etc. So just wanted to make a point on on the two platforms versus the other I think it's also a function of The ecosystem that you've created around you as well. So Google and Facebook have created their own ecosystem not just from an advertising perspective But also from a content and creative perspective. I think that's crucial I think agencies and they've they've been the first movers as Pankaj was saying to partner with agencies from a creative and content perspective And that's why clients are looking or the creative guy Who's who's at the agency is always thinking of Facebook on Google purely because there are deep links That the publisher has made with the agency whether it's a mainline agency or a digital agency so your default brief Question of what do I do innovative on a digital platform the creative guys already thinking? Facebook and Google subconsciously so the choice that you are Making is or the ideas that are getting presented to the client are by default slide one slide two and slide three all Google and Facebook properties. Yeah, so It's also a function of time spent first mover Etc. Etc. But it's also a function of where does the idea germinate from and How deeply have they integrated their? Sort of thinking process and just not about products So if you look at the kind of white papers that Google comes up with which is You have a hero idea hub idea and a hygiene idea. It's embedded with the agencies So all of the ideas that you think of are the new ways of digital marketing is the Facebook and Google way of marketing So I think the the challenge is not just about ad formats or content or time spent It's also about the process that they've created or the framework that they've created for For advertisers to get receptive to this whole piece and obviously there's glamorous work To be seen on platforms like Facebook and Google Twitter Instagram, so your your work is seen as Shams was saying in terms of where is my outdoor ad? Your ads is definitely shared and seen on these platforms So by default it's glamorous work for everyone including ad including marketeers to a second question about innovation I Think there are a lot of Non-glamorous things that can also be innovative right so consumers today are Watching a whole lot of television or a whole lot of content on digital and they're speaking that on Facebook and Twitter Or Instagram or whatever right and that's rich data for us Tell me today Every news channel has a hashtag running. There's a ad handle that goes So the amount of second-screen conversation that's happening because the mobile is always with you is tremendous So a you have to address a linear plus digital Audience that's there from a content perspective and see what they are seeing and what what the aspiration is from a content perspective And the other side is really how do I create? Content back to a certain audience that's speaking my content or content related to me So I think a whole lot of innovation is happening which is linked to data and conversations that can lead to You creating campaigns and advertising and not just creating campaigns for the sake of creating campaigns. So That's something that I wanted to just leave in a thank you for taking that point So the point that I will make from an innovation perspective as in in this year data is the new innovation because It's really from now on for the next couple of years It's it's really going to drive all kinds of innovation that you ever see across anything that you're doing and especially on mobile because the kind of data that you can get It's about reaching as close as possible to the segment of one How do I understand that you as an individual and this device is actually making me understand that the most better than any other device that actually exists out there is Who are you and what is it that you are doing? What are your likes? What are your dislikes? Irrespective of you actually seeing those out loud and that really is the most powerful innovation that's coming out in anything and everything that we do So that's that really is going to drive Everything that we are talking about whether it is about talking about micro segments whether it's about talking about different kinds of content that we are if it's talking about where should I advertise whether a Facebook or Or Google or cheetah that all is going to come upon the data that we're going to use so extremely important for You know Advertisers for marketers for publishers is how are we actually using that data? Gathering the data and then understanding it to get better at Talking to our consumers and it also starts from the content piece as well is my Communication strategy is my content strategy able to deliver to that data that I'm actually Talking to to that consumer that I'm talking to and I think that's that's really the the innovation of this So the point that I was making is is you're not consuming content the content is also consuming you So so everyone knows what you're consuming So that the the back door to that content consumption habits and understanding is the Is the innovation moving forward just as an extension of the same point now imagine if you know as a brand I'm mutual fund brand right and most of my content is little serious content. It's not the content which is beautiful okay, and So if you just extend this data Perspective and go deeper into understanding behaviors now for Facebook for example There are people who are going to Facebook to relax to socialize Right to de-stress now when they are de-stressing and if I present a graph of The last one year of five years ten years kind of returns probably you know even that content Even if it is exceptionally good will probably will not be appreciated So it depends as to again, you know What is the state of mind of the consumer when that content or that you know that When that person is on the platform So if I were on LinkedIn if I were on Twitter probably my content will be more accepted Probably so behavior from insights and therefore data is very very important So data behavior inside connect with content and connect with the Connecting the dots is very important getting getting the right So then I come up with actually one question really interesting. Want to talk with every bird people here So we always we hear these data we hear about audience how these so what's the suggestion that you can give it out to People like us like publishers other than Google and Facebook Google and Facebook. They say they own the world I have lots of lots of data. I just don't want to share that much with you But I want to I want to bundle it into a product or something so that I can work out with you But if if like like like us as a publisher as a mobile publisher What kind of cooperation or what kind of data cooperation? That we can work with either agency set of customer sites that can foster that that The agency side of the customer side are much more interested in working with us What kind of data you are looking for what kind of insight you are looking for? could just share a little bit as a Agency side where I can we can start with Yeah, okay. I think it's a very good question, but I'll take a step back over here So I think the first and foremost thing we need to do is we definitely need to be open source We need to understand. What are the different kinds of today data available? To us By us I mean to the publishers and then to the agencies and clients I think more and more you partner more and more you understand and to Molly's point It's consumer centric you need to make sure what the behavior is and from that you will understand What if his behavior is X do you have that kind of data? I'll try and give an example of two different clients I think that's the best way to understand how you can target them better and what publishers can take from there let's say there is a there is a H&I client and there is a FMCG if I know that there is a customer who has high level of international travel Has an up who of more than 5,000 or 10,000 rupees He is always staying in if it's Bombay south of Bombay If he has a phone which is more than 50,000 60,000 bucks He's been seen in international Sorry in five-star and seven-star hotels I Through this data segment I can definitely understand and target him to an H&I client Would you like to play more? I mean pay more for that. I'll come to that. I'll come to that. Okay, cool, right? So data very important now What does the publisher like your question goes? Yeah, what can I put if a publisher is open to partner with the data sources? It becomes far more easier for an agency and a client To use that publisher in the marketing or the media mix Because you can consolidate and tell me about more about these data segments Right, but our agency is ready for that agency is ready for the tech tech impact now already Oh, yeah, I think At least I'm sure Shamshu will talk about his agency But at least where I come from we are more than ready for it We have started implementing this for clients and I think like they say data is the new oil today And that's where digital marketing is actually going Now let me come to the another side of the consumer the advertiser, which is an FMCG if I can understand that There is a consumer who? Spends X amount of money on the 29th and 30th of end of the month and on the first and second And he's been looked into modern trade and he is staying 50 meters or 100 meters away from this kind of a grocery shop That's kind of another data segment which I can use to target this consumer all I'm saying is and okay You may ask me a question saying that if you funnel that much How much will you reach out to these audiences? There's no point to reach out to thousand people in a in a 400 million data stack But that's not the case you have lot many other models for doing lookalikes and understanding how you can grow that data segment Better I'll come to your another question, which you said that if the Agencies or clients are ready to pay that kind of money. I think Gone are the days where we were talking about An X CPM which got fixed for a publisher if today you can scientifically Segment the audience and come back to the agency and say these are the kind of audience and I can sharp target it I'm sure we can justify the cost or the additional premium So-called which needs to be put and I'm sure if we can do that with the client because at the end of the day Please understand all our businesses for our clients and the clients would definitely rather than doing a spray Would want to target much more refiner target audiences where they can then talk about business and performance It's no more a story of only good to do branding stuff It's also at the end of the day where there is an ROI for every Dollar which you spend on advertising Yeah, and therefore now I think the agency role has evolved quite a bit and Client no more is the client that agencies are serving client is again, you know, who are you targeting and therefore we have to partner in Whether it's like creative whether it's data or anything the outcome has to be same and therefore, you know, whether it's sharing of Costs or whether sharing of profits. I think that partnership is coming up between client and the so that's an evolution That's helping so I have a slightly Different kind of you and that's good for the panel So so let's say that there is a Google ecosystem and then there's the Facebook ecosystem And I'm talking from a publisher perspective as the question was what can a publisher like cheetah do There needs to be an ecosystem that exists beyond this which I think all of the agencies are really creating today is How am I going to get all these data points? And I think a lot of the discussions around there was how am I going to get the entire Consumer journey with all the data points across for my consumer The future really is about again at the segment of one It's about that one person and what is that one person doing? Yeah, if you get the time, please go and see the Cambridge analytics work that was done For Donald Trump winning the elections and you'll come to know what is the kind of segmentation that happens? So just have a look at Cambridge analytics Donald Trump when you search for it That's the kind of data that people are using it's actually to say okay This person who lives in this area is pro or anti a product for example And that's the kind of level of targeting that is going to be reached to are you ready for that as an agency We are we're already on the way We're already on a way of creating the segment of fun already on a way of creating a platform which gets Everything on to one to understand who that person is and going beyond just digital data. We're talking about Direct mailer data. We're talking about Interactions and malls etc. So we're going way beyond that So that's something that's already happening, but in that ecosystem as a publisher How can I add to that ecosystem number one number two? How can I automate because that's another big thing that is going to happen is automation? Without automation if you are not going to go into the automation game That's going to be another miss point. That's going to be there How am I going to how I as an agency can dip into that data without actually speaking to you? Without actually speaking to any of your guys. It's very important for me to understand that and get those data points out Without automation is going to be extremely important from that perspective and then B is of course you need people then Not to get the data but to analyze that data so the future really belongs to people who are going to be able to get the data analyze it and You know speak to our clients and really be able to make a difference in the client's business And that's really where I think the big ticket items are we have something something coming soon But definitely will be something that might be making all of you guys interested in but yeah We still have some time how about as customers talk Customers come on Actually building on both these gentlemen's point from CPG point of view. Okay. I Look at data. I mean, I don't want to twist data so much that you know, it starts throwing wobbly Understanding data has to give me actionable insights. Yeah about customers about consumers and for a CPG client It is very very important. Okay. I understand that female X Y Z in this metro is doing this But what is her behavior? What are the affinities which she's getting into is very very critical for me? Because that will help me decide the kind of content I am creating and that Content will ensure that the engagement which I need to have with that kind of users will actually give that brand love or A lift which I want to have in my with my brand So that's where I feel that you know publishers like you need to give us more understanding and partners like Partner sitting next to me They need to also give us understanding in terms of consumers behavior and What she's doing online. What are the affinities and interest she has of course these kind of things are which we are getting Through various platforms, but not at a mass scale Yeah, just to add to that there is one apparent data Where you know people are coming online and they're displaying let's say, you know Women are coming in shopping or men are coming in buying mutual funds, etc But then there is a lot of unsaid data, which we have to understand as marketers So where does that come from so for example if the woman is buying a dress Then who are the three other friends who are influencing her by that dress or if a man is purchasing mutual fund Then who is the actual person who's influencing him to buy mutual funds? That is something, you know that we We really want to understand on a daily basis now a woman can be a woman can be Influencing a man in the house to buy mutual funds for audio. No, or a child could be influencing a father by You know the car that they choose to buy for the family So those influencing sets also play a big role From from a data perspective. So one is the straight line data and of course, what are the Influencing factors around it. I can't want to build on what bunkers was saying in terms of data can take you as much in terms of in terms of actionable Executions and I think today everyone who's sitting here who assesses a media plan Has that amount of custom targeting built into it. So I don't know how much of Analyzing your tg and then having a super segmented plan will actually help you I think it's the ability of your platform to influence the consumer and having a direct impact on the brand Equity is the next layer. So I think the build-up to data is still a media plan and After that is it's what you deploy and how does it really influence your consumer? I think if that journey is is got by a two-plus or whatever beyond your core platforms I Think that's that's the game changer or the needlemower in terms of how does your platform actually Influence the brand and then people are willing to kind of put monies behind it beyond the hygiene of targeting and and the other stuff I spent lots of time actually taking notes I mean, it's not just a panel discussion I'm actually taking notes and to be shared with my founders. It's true So so because we are running out of time I really want to have him I should just speak a little bit, but We try to make some time for people to do questioning This is last two minutes and we prepared our gift for people who are willing to ask questions Okay, so any question because this is a very rare opportunity to have a very decent very decent not me Please exclude me, but very decent people folks here. Okay. Any question? Hi, I just want to ask for years marketeers were sitting on the panel have been spending hundreds of crores of rupees in On television and print now you're spending 10 percent 5 percent 8 percent or 20 percent of your money into digital and suddenly the questions of vicinities and Proximities and who influences and why shouldn't they how are the influence happening? Why is so much of you know needle points being made towards digital data points? Whereas you never cared about it earlier. So why why are you being so pessimistic about digital? We are not pessimistic about digital trust me. We are really really positive and gungo about digital and It's not that we are pinpointing questions on data and digital It's that I mean these options are available to us, right? These options are created by us as an industry It's not that you know suddenly a marketer has woken up and asking this question Okay, give me this data on digital. These are things available and rightly so I mean if this is available We need to use them in right fashion. It's not that we are just saying that because this is available I am going to only invest five percent or ten percent on this one and I'll keep asking Okay, sorry just to take an corollary to that question. So why aren't you asking the same questions for TV and print? You're spending 80 percent of your money there We are and that's the whole idea the idea is that we are asking those questions the the whole concept of the old Adagios, I I don't know where 50% of my advertising dollars are going. That's not true of digital And that's really the case with mainline because you're taking a sample size of iron around 10,000-15,000 people meters to really go there and you It is the question that we are asking as digital marketers ourselves saying that what is it that So I was asking the insurance guys So I was asking this question of the insurance guys and the agency's answer My view will be you know the reason why so I do about five digital campaigns every month Okay, and maybe one TVC across quarter So you can see the so why digital as a medium has evolved and there is a other trend called caught cutters Why people don't watch TV. So definitely people are more I'm talking about my senior folks at the reliance are opening to Digital as a medium to adopt for not if from ROI, but brand perspective also. So that's that's the other part why you know D-Rub people are shifting Sorry just just I don't know if that question was to me, but I think in my last comments I said that the impact on brand I think what you're essentially doing is as coming back to Shamsha's question is that everyone remain remembers an ad No one remembers a mobile ad to be honest with you if you ask If you have a research agency was doing your household panel If you're doing qualitative research, everyone remembers your ad How do you know a brand so I in multiple consumer researchers that I've been to or qualitative FGD's that I've been to No one is talking about I've seen your mobile ad and then I'm gone and bought your product So it's very difficult that way to to be in a situation where all marketing is taught saying influence Purchase consideration and then purchase and that influence is coming through a tier and you can't deny that Because consumers are saying that I've seen this ad and I've been I've got influenced So it's very difficult from a digital perspective to really say that it's it's moving the needle from From an influence perspective. I've seen this mobile ad and hence I've bought this product So it's it's it's slightly two different parameters when you're looking at digital and mobile and ATL differently So they're serving two different purposes here and ultimately today everyone is asking If your digital advertising and mobile advertising is really impacting your brand to a certain extent and if that is then you Should double down on that is the question and if it's working for your brand. You should as simple as that yes just to add to that there's a little different view that I have because If you say 5% 10% I think that's past clearly past in from our scheme of things because What we believe is that our consumers are very digitally savvy and trust me my 50% budget is dedicated to digital And when we look at digital again, there's a misnomer because digital is not what you just see on the platforms There's a lot of investment that goes behind digital to put it up there, right in IT infrastructure You know on your servers and your software applications, etc So there's a lot of investment that goes behind. So if you add up all of that, it's probably much more than 50% Also one last point TV doesn't know you print doesn't know you but your mobile knows you it's your personal device hence data is available Hence it's been asked for sharper targeting contextual communication Well, I just to add Just to add I think you raised a you raised a point which I think always gets raised between when we are in boardrooms with clients and sayings that you know, you're 90% you're 95% of your monies are on Traditional media and your 5 or 10% monies are on digital and you and as digital marketeers or agencies We get asked the maximum amount of questions, but Television and offline media doesn't get that and it's always the case I think now I Would like to believe Gone are the days that these questions are asked anymore I think as an integrated agency we generally try and put the idea to the client on the table and Give the medium its new benefit having said that it can never be 80% or 85% sir But we're definitely moved beyond the 5% or 7% mark because it's no more what in digital or why digital it's How digital what you can do there and just to add to Molly's point. I think There are clients which are not even in the bracket of 10% and 15% because Their business either is on digital and hence they need to do and also offline clients where they have understood the power of digital and They use digital for business acquisitions and not only for marketing Well, that's all the time we have Mr. Shen thank you so much before we let our panelists go Mr. Shen I'm gonna request you to kindly present them with a token of our gratitude Thank you very much to all our panelists for that very very insightful and enthusiastic discussion