If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this sexy episode of mine. Curvaceous. Pump. The first 50 minutes is our introductory conversation. We talk about an evil genius show on Netflix. I haven't seen it yet. Adam says it's awesome. Gotta watch it. Some crazy lady. Twisted. I talked about neurons to Nirvana on Amazon Prime. That's a great one. Talks about psychedelics and their effects on the brain. We did a little Father's Day recap. We all had a good time. Yeah, shout out to the fathers out there. Justin talked about his dad date. Wanted a date with another dad. And we're going to go bike riding, apparently. We mentioned all the stress Adam has at family events. It sounds so funny. We talk about former Fitbit employees being indicted. I think they were job-own employees. Yes. And then they worked at Fitbit. He said that. No, Justin said that the right way. Doug Rudder. Doug Rudder. Doug also forgot to mention us talking about HustleCon that's coming up here. Oh, yeah. This Friday. HustleOn. The 22nd. We actually have a coupon code specifically for MimePump listeners. You will get $150 off the ticket. So this is exclusive just for you guys. Go to hustlecon.com, enter the code MimePump for that massive discount. And we talked about the value of wearables. And I also mentioned Organifi turmeric. And how to get turmeric off your blender. How to get it off your blender when it stains it. My facts. Yellow. It's actually like a gold yellow. Not orange. I know you say orange. Gold yellow. I feel like it's orange. If you go to Organifi. Like a nice P. Dot com forward slash MimePump. Use the code MimePump. That's like yellow. You'll get 20% off any of their products. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, what is the best method to track your basal metabolic rate? This is how many calories your body burns every single day. Naturally, we give you the secret method. The secret method. The secret sauce. Learn it in this episode. Wish we had something to sell and attach to that. I know. Here's the formula. Then somebody asked us what our thoughts were on walking after eating. Because we always talk about being in a parasympathetic state to digest. But doesn't walking put you in a sympathetic state?  Yeah. Don't walk like a maniac. The next question is, what is something that we've said on the podcast before that we have since learned is incorrect?  Adam said a lot of bad stuff wrong most of the time. The next question was the final question. As the masculine men that we are, we're so manly. Is that what they think? That's great. So much testosterone. How would we approach trying to raise an LGBT son or daughter? We actually talk about making out with each other in this portion. Yeah. It's a podcast. You can't see what we did. It was like a surprise ending. But we tested it out. Yeah. Also, this month, all month long, half off. Who can you hook? Half off. Maps Anywhere. Maps Anywhere is the program that allows you to work out with minimal equipment. All you need are bands and a stick. And that's it. You can work out in your hotel room. You can work out in your church. You can work out at the park. You can work out on an airplane in the bathroom. Where can't you work out with maps anywhere? I always work out at church. You know what I'm saying? In the front row. Yeah. In the front row. Yeah. Give me some more.  That's right, man. Also, Breach. We have very popular maps bundled. So what we do is we take multiple maps programs and we piece them together like a Voltron set. Voltron is the robot that defended the universe in the 80s for all of you young people. But anyway, we take multiple maps programs, put them together, discount the entire price like 30% off. For example, our map Super Bundle is one year of exercise program. You go from one maps to another the entire year, your body changing the whole time. It will make you sexy. Oh, and also, everything comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get a maps program. Do a whole month on it. If it doesn't blow your mind, take it back and we will refund you. You can find all of these programs at Mindpump- It doesn't blow your mind.  Mindpumpmedia.com. That was forced. Thanks. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time. Yeah! Give away them shirts. Eleven reviews, three shirts going out.  It went way down. Yeah. I have to tell people how to do it again, dude. Why? Because this is what happens. People don't know. Gosh. This is what you do. Eleven? It's like Groundhogs Day, dude. Eleven's one of the worst we've had in a long time.  When it comes up, click on the icon. You've got to remind them that even if you're already subscribed to Mindpump, you still got to go put it in. You pretend you don't know who we are. That's right. You've still got to search it. You know it's hard. You've still got to search Mindpump even if they're already saved and you're subscribed. Click on the icon. Scroll down a little bit. You'll see ratings and reviews. Leave a five-star rating with a good review.  Let me tell you. Putting all the pressure on Doug. These t-shirts are, I mean they're incredible. Some of them are made with diamond dust. Oh my God. Actual dust. We're going Himalayan. From diamonds. We have unicorn fur on another one. I mean you basically don't know what you're going to get. You might get a regular cotton t-shirt. You don't know though. You won't know until you win the contest. So leave a review. All right. And the three winners are Scott05M, Brandon at Evolve, ChattieCharlie87. You are all winners. Send the name I just read to itinsatmindpumpmedia.com. Send your shirt size, your shipping address, and we'll get that right out to you. Is Hustleclons this Friday? This Friday or Saturday Doug? I messed up last time. What was it? I think it's Friday the 22nd. Let me double check on that. Okay. So it's coming up now.  I know. We won't but Taylor and Eli will be there. They're going to be gone. Yeah. Well are we coming back Friday? We fly back in Friday afternoon I believe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We're only there. We take off Wednesday. Wednesday morning. Do you know anybody that went, Yeah. Taylor's been already. He already went? Yeah. What does he think? He says it's awesome. So it's just pure entrepreneur. Yeah. I mean you're going to have, I think there's like 12 speakers that come up and they're, you know, they do little like half hour talks and they come up and kind of tell their, their startup. A lot of them are like either startups or companies that have been established for less than 10 years that are very successful. Most of them all are in the, you know, multi-million dollar companies. Just giving their story of how they came into their, Yeah. But I think, They curated a little bit more like say, for example, like somebody like, you know, that's done a really good job with like email marketing. So, and that was like a lot of their success. Like maybe that's where 80% of their revenue is coming from there. So they talk around that topic since that's kind of their expertise or say like someone like us, even though we're not quite on that level where we'd speak at that, we'd probably speak to podcasting, right? Although we have multiple streams of revenue coming in. This is probably what we would consider our expertise or is becoming our expertise in fitness podcasting, right? So I think that's what they just, they just pick all these great companies that are really successful and then they pick apart like what areas that they do really well. So it's supposed to be really good. So I wish we were going. I wanted to go. The big thing, the big reason why I would go is to meet all the people that go. Yeah, that too.  People are very serious. Yeah, it's a great place to network and no, I have a hundred percent I'm all for stuff like that. So have you guys implemented the high dose turmeric yet? Have I sold it to you enough? I haven't done it yet. You guys got to try it. Not to interrupt your commercial right now, but check this out. What? So you know how I talked about...  Don't worry.  Because it turns...  Do you know how to fix that? Tons of people... Tons of people... No, not bleach. Not bleach in your blender. No, you don't drink it. No, so tons of people... Have I got cider vinegar? No, no. After that episode, tons of people have been DMing me all the same thing. So you set it outside and leave it in the sun. That's it. Yeah, with nothing in it. Just leave it out in the sun. The sun will bleach off the tumor. Did you try it? Not yet, but I'm all excited to. I just found this out. Sunlight? Yeah. That's weird. I totally wouldn't have believed it except I have like 10 DMs right now from people telling me the exact same thing. Very... I wonder how. I don't know. I'm excited to try it though. I think that might be true. Oh, I mean, I think... It's pretty random that 10 random people... Well, no. Remember when I dumped that turmeric gold drink on my carpet? Yeah. And it was this horrible yellow color and I couldn't get it out. I have one of those steam cleaners. Yeah. I tried to clean it up and it wouldn't go away but it gets sunlight there. Oh. And it's disappeared.  I bet your carpet has less inflammation too. It does. It does.  Just gonna circle back. Just gonna circle back. I want you guys to try it. Bro, I want you guys to try it. It's actually pretty crazy. It takes like a few weeks but it's dramatic. I haven't... I've done a couple... I mean, we talked... It's not like you can't just do it once. You do it consistently. Okay, so how long... How consistent do I need to be with this? It's a super dose, you're saying. I'm doing eight capsules a day of the turmeric one. Oh, wow. So whatever that dose is.  So I do... You gotta go through a loading phase. Yeah, right? That would sell like those creatines. You gotta load the turmeric first. No, no, no, no. The first four orally. The second four rectally. Oh, wow. Cause you want both. No, I'm just kidding. I go four in the morning, four at night. I'm not that committed. And it works. Okay. Speaking of putting things in your rectum I thought you were gonna do the coffee in them. I'm a little disappointed that you haven't set that up. No, dude. It's a lot of... It's a lot of planning. Adam wants the video. I know that. I know that. That's why he's saying this. He doesn't really care about the coffee. He just wants to see me. It seems like a great bonding thing for you and Jessica. To do that? Yeah. You know, it's old. We've done stuff like that before. Yeah, you see, I knew you.  No, but you know what though? It was like first base. I want to do it, but that's first place. We went to first base last night. All you guys made out. Hold my rubber tube. This is happening. But no, it's... I was thinking about doing it, but it's a lot of prep. Like I feel like you make a mess. You got to do it in the shower and all that stuff. I don't know, man. Well, I think it's messy seeing me. Yeah, we're going to lay on the floor when some of it gets out on the floor. That's what Ben did.  He lays on his side in his bathroom floor, man. That's what I'm saying. I don't remember how long he said... Do you remember how long he said it is? Is it like 20 minutes you have to do it for? I don't know. He says he just gets up and just goes right in the toilet. All right, afterwards. Just... No, that's like, yeah. It just falls out. It's just like, what? Then it goes. It's pure liquid though. What if it comes out before? Imagine that and I wish I wouldn't have. Is that him doing that with a coffee? Yeah. Yeah, I know. I'm cool. I'm going to do it. I will do it, but I just need to be ready. You know what I mean? No kids, nothing. Because that'd be a weird... He's trying to explain that to your kids. Daddy, what are you doing? Your son walks in. Daddy, what are you doing? Listen son, sometimes you got to do things. You ever get these thoughts in your head, like if you ever do something like that, like what if there's an earthquake or something like that? Try to explain that. Somebody needs to go to the hospital real quick.  You're running outside. Coffee's coming out of your butt. Nobody knows it's coffee. You know what I mean? I know. Try and live that one out. Stop, drop, and roll.  Your kids walk in and see something with it. Daddy's an avatar. Yeah. Why do you have a tail? Avatar. The avatar's an tail. He's practicing Sahelu. What is it, Justin? It's Sahelu. Is that the name of it? Yeah, bro. That's the great connection. That's the bond. You pronounce it right, too. Yeah, Sahelu. Somebody's watched that a few times. How many times have you seen Avatar? You know, a few times.    You know what I watched this last weekend? What'd you watch?  Yeah, seen it. You seen it? Yeah. I haven't seen it yet. So what is it about? Why didn't you say something? Like it or what? No, I did like it.  I did like it. I watched it with Courtney. Yeah, it's just, it's only a four, I think it's a four episode series. It's one of the, like, you remember Dirty Money? Yeah. It's kind of like a series like that. So it's a real- This is the one with the lady in the bomb. Yes. So it shows different people. This is what, it's actually, it's kind of like, did you ever see Make You a Murder? I saw a little bit of that. Okay, so it's kind of like that. It's a real story, real case. It was, I mean, it went on for like 10 years unsolved or something. Insane.  Really? Yeah, it's a good watch. Netflix? Yeah, Netflix. Yeah, that's a good one. The next one is something about the stairway. It's like a, it's a murder. I didn't watch that one. So I'm, yeah, that's the next one on my list. But I heard lots of good things about that. Same thing. Like it's, it's kind of like making a murder. It recommended that after I watched Evil Genius. Oh, very interesting. So that's one of my ones out. So I get to watch that by myself. There's not a lot of stuff I get to watch by myself. Why, what do you mean, what do you mean get to? Because she won't watch it?  Oh yeah, that was walking dead for me. Yeah, so Courtney couldn't handle it. I always try and find one or two shows that Katrina doesn't like. Actually, I did get, something like that did happen to me. But it was, I was home alone sick one day. It was a while ago, and I didn't, you know, I was just surfing through on Netflix. And then the other day, Jessica's watching TV and she's like, were you watching a documentary on strippers? I'm like, Of course. I'm like, wait, was I? I remember there was a documentary on strippers on Netflix. Totally not what you would expect by the way. I think it's healthy for the relationship. I think it's healthy for the relationship for you to have a show that you watch by yourself.  Of course.  And then you can't watch it. And you can't watch it. You know what I'm saying? So you're always hostage. You've always got to have one or two go-tos in the back just in case. You've always watched it and then started over and didn't say anything? What? Yeah. I'm like, don't put that out on air, dude.  Did it call me out like that? Pretending like it's the first time.  Really, I watched it the day before. I did that on Game of Thrones. And I was like, gosh. I shouldn't have done that. I feel like I cheated. Yeah, it's like cheating. Yeah. You can't do that. Yeah, my girl gets all right on that. Don't watch it till I get home. Me and Jessica don't have series. Actually, we do now. We have one series now that we watch. It's the Jersey Shore. Now we've been watching the Jersey Shore. I know. Of all the shows I'm trying to get you to watch, by the way, I finally watched the season finale of Westworld.  Epic. So epic. So well-written, dude. Dude, one of the best, like, I don't know. Anything I've seen on TV, that was the best episode I've seen. No, it was really, it was up there with like, like movies that I've seen. No, it was, it was well, very well-written. I'll watch it at some point. I think I will.  I'm over. I'm down with you. Jersey Shore's taking up your time right now. Jersey Shore's way more important, bro. You haven't even watched Game of Thrones. You know what? They don't even have a conversation. You know what? The only reason why you get a pass, the only reason why you get a pass is because you watch enough, like, educational type documentaries. That's what I was going to say.  Bro, we watch hardcore documentaries 99% of the time. Yeah, I know.  Yeah. Because before that, we watched Neurons to Nirvana. Amazing documentary on the effects of psychedelics on the brain and the studies that they did in the 60s and the ones that they're doing now. Actually very, very good on Prime, Amazon Prime. That's cool. Yeah, highly, highly recommend it.  You guys watch more Amazon Prime than anything else it seems like. You know, Amazon, you know why? Because there's more stuff on Amazon Prime or just on Amazon and sometimes I have to pay for it, but whatever. Netflix doesn't give you that option, right? Either they have it or they don't. Amazon, if they have it for free, great. And they have the same stuff for free that Netflix has most of the time, not always, but most of the time. And then they have stuff you can pay for. So I can find everything on there. So I prefer it. I wonder what the best platform is. Is it Hulu? Is it Netflix? Is it Amazon? Who's Hulu's making moves? Who's winning here? Because you know, I feel like for, sometimes I feel like Netflix is, but then I see like things like, I didn't know Hulu picked up. Disney? No, yeah. Disney bought into Hulu. Right. But they picked up billions. I saw that they have that. Oh, right. And that's one of my favorite shows on there. So it's kind of interesting to see how this is all going to pan out at the end. Like, who gets what, what networks?  It's no different. Are they going to share them? It's no different than TV because, you know, TV was, you had the major networks, you know what I mean? ABC, NBC, whatever. So it's going to be just like that. You know what's crazy is now on like Fox, ABC, ESP and all these show, or on TV, you're watching like the finals and all the big sporting events right now. And major advertising spots for YouTube, Hulu. On TV? Yes. How funny is that? I mean, that's got to be like, imagine being the person who works for that company. It has to be cannibalizing.  We're advertising. They're competitors. This is going to be my job right here. They're going to take my job right here. They're going to be like driving a taxi with an ad for Uber. Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's what it's got to be like. And you have to take it because he's paying you 10 grand a month to put it in your taxi cab. You're not getting any more money. Yeah, they're paying you more than you're probably making at your job to put it up there. Hey, what'd you guys do for Father's Day? Did you guys do anything? I just went for a nice hike. I had the kids. The courthander worked. So we went up. Yeah, I saw your story. Yeah. Is that right next to your house? Yeah. It just was in a different direction. So I went a different way. And can you walk from your house to get to that? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, so even my parents are kind of close. So we went to my parents, hung out with them, and then basically walked from there. And it's this cool mountain biking trail. So I don't know, man. I think I'm going to get into it. Oh, really? All my friends that are dads and are in the area are super. It's this big thing. Everybody's into mountain biking now.  So I found one. And we were just kind of walking through it. And I was like, oh, dude, this looks awesome. You geeked out with my brother-in-law, right? I might actually hook up with your brother. Except he's crazy, though. He does like super insane stuff. But he started just like that. I mean, I remember it was just like maybe. So my sister and her husband, Tom, my brother-in-law, it's really cool what they do. Like every couple of years they'll do this. I think it's really neat. I've shared it. I might have shared it on the podcast before, but they start making a list of all the things or the attributes that they like within a hobby. So, you know, and Tom's making his list.  It has to have a lot of trinkets that I can buy for it. You know, it has to be physical. You know, it has to be dangerous. So he has like all these things that he wants inside of a hobby. And then he takes from there and then he goes and he starts searching things that line up with that. And that's how he came about down. That's actually pretty smart. Interesting. It's actually really smart. My sister did the same thing, too. And that's how she came about paddle surfing. So, I mean paddle boarding. So she does her, they go, almost every Saturday, they go their different directions. She goes to Lake Tahoe and he goes up to the hills and he mountain bikes. I heard because I have a friend who, she's a professional mountain bike racer and she said some of the best trails are up by where you are at. Yeah. They're all over the place, dude. I'm just like pros, a lot of pros train up there. There's a lot.  Like they're all like really into it. So I'm like, Dad dating. It's dad dates. Let's have a play date. I want to have one with your dad. You can hang out with the kids. Things that married couples do. Fuck. You gotta go on a date. You know what dad dates? You know, it is funny when you have kids, you'll hang out with adults that you would never hang out with just because you're friends. Bro. Your kids are friends. Of course, I can see that. Those parties, oh, it's so painful. You know, like I don't want to talk to you. I have to. So you're just stuck in the situation. Like what do we have in common? Right. How rare does it, the parents of the kids that your kids hanging out with actually line up with the type of people you hang out with? Very rare. It's your kids that are in common. Everybody always asks me about fitness. So that ends up becoming the conversation. As they're like smashing down cake. Yeah. You know, I think for the first like 10 years of my career, I really enjoyed that. Maybe that's because I like talking about fitness. Yes. Now the back half on my, I try and avoid it at all costs. I know. I don't mind talking about it. I do. Me too, man. I do. You don't want to know that. You're like, are you into fitness? Oh, kind of. Kind of not really. It's like a hobby. You'll say like move along. Let's talk about something else. I have a podcast. What are you talking about? Exactly. I don't mind talking about fitness as long as it's like stimulating conversation, but it's never stimulating because what you end up answering is stuff like, Yeah. What's the best thing to do for this? Yeah.  And is there a lot of protein and peanuts and stuff like that? We're going to be doing this for a while. Yeah. That's where you direct them to the qua. Yeah. Oh, you know what, actually? No. No, I don't direct them to them. Remember their kids go to school by kids, you know? I don't want them to listen to the show necessarily. Yeah.  Is it still not to the point where when you meet somebody new like that? I don't know. I've sort of been using that lately.  So I've been like leading with that a little bit more and people like, oh, yeah. Like they look at me like, oh, yeah, cool, bro. You know, like, yeah, great. In other words, you're unemployed. Exactly. That's what it felt like. It's like, oh, cool. Yeah. I'm glad you're trying something.  Oh, between jobs. It's a business. Yeah. Like it's a thing, you know? It's like, what am I going to say? I'm a fitness entrepreneur. You know, like that's even worse. That sounds even worse. Yeah. No, my, uh, Jessica's dad, when I first met him, he's like, so what do you, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, we have like a fitness media company. And so he's like, huh? What does that look like? I'm like, oh, we have a podcast. He's like, how much do people pay to listen to your podcast? I'm like, well, it's free. And you can see the look on his face. He's like, how do you make money? Yeah. Yeah. How do you like plan on like taking care of my daughter? He literally asked me, how do you guys make money? I'm like, well, we get an audience. And then it's hard to explain, you know? We just do it. Yeah, we just do it. Now we had, uh, we had a big family party, uh, because it was my cousin's 30th birthday. And so we kind of did this father's day birthday thing. Oh, I had a combined party. Yeah. So I, so here's the thing. Like I feel so bad for my girl because I don't, I don't even consider, cause she's always, she wants to know like, are they going to be a lot of people there? And I always forget to, to mention like, oh, this may be a big party. So as we're rolling up, I see all these cars outside my aunt's house. I'm like, oh yeah. This could be like AB people.  Yeah. Just so many people can be so overwhelming. See, now I can grow up that way. I can totally relate with her. So her and I need to go to some of these events together. Cause you're, cause you're. Cause yeah, that's, that's me. So I had the, this was Katrina's nephew, uh, Jalen. He graduated from UC Davis. So it was a graduation party plus father's day at, you know, their house. I don't know if you saw some of the pictures or videos that I posted or whatever. I saw the one with Katrina dancing. Yeah, it was her dad. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that was her dad that she was dancing with. He's like a phenomenal dancer. Well, both of them look great. Yeah. So a lot of pressure on me for, right? Well, I was just thinking, I'm watching and I'm like, for sure, Adam, not dancing. I can't just like shift. Do you not, do you not dance with her like that? Not like that. Yeah. No, he's like. Cause that was like. He's got swing and line and everything that. No, he could do everything. Would you ever take lessons? I know, as you say. I would do swing lessons. Yeah. I think swings cool. You'd have fun with it. Yeah. I would, you know, on the type of guy where if, if Katrina really wanted to, like for like a wedding and she was like, Hey, you know, let's, let's do, let's do our dance, like a swing dance. Like a Boston move. I would be game for that. Like he convinced me to do that. I would go with you guys. I wouldn't go with Justin cause he'd make me look really bad cause he moves. Whatever. So well. Those hips. Yeah. He just, he moves really, really well. I'm on the swivel. But no point being that I show up there. And again, it's, it's the same feeling for, for me as I'm sure Jessica has being somebody who wasn't around a lot of family members a lot of the time. It was very, very rare. It was the first time that our family ever got together and it really, we really never did. And it definitely was never at the sot, the magnitude that her family is. There's a lot of pressure for someone like her or I to go to those places because it's a skill that I never developed. One of those being like to be able to be in this family environment and then remember everybody's name. And then like I'm really bad too.  Yeah. And it, yeah. So her family does that too. Oh yeah. Wow. It's very similar. It's been a, there's some things in our, their cultures. It's the Latin culture. Yeah. The Latin culture for sure is like that. So, yeah.  We're finally leaving. And it's like, I miss somebody. And they're like, Adam. And I'm like, don't even remember who their name, their name. And they're like, you're not going to say goodbye.  Don't forget my, my husband.   Yeah. It does.  So then I try and like dart out and like not be seen. So funny.  Exact conversation I had with Jessica recently. And I think the reason, one of the reasons is why. So I have compassion for you, Jessica. Yeah. One of the reasons why you guys feel that way, maybe because you feel like forced. Like if I don't do it, people think I'm rude. But it's funny because who's that, the interview that we listened to with Jordan Peterson, he says how we focus so much on vacations and big events. When in reality, it's the daily things that are the important things, like how you come home and how you say hi to people. Right. And we forget why that exists in the culture. Like because it becomes so, because we think we're supposed to do it, we forget why we're supposed to do it. The reality is it's a nice practice to say hi and touch everybody and whatever. And so when you remember the why, it becomes less like. Oh yeah. Well, you got to remember for someone like her either. Like I totally, it's not a lack of seeing that. It's more that you've created a pathway that doesn't exist. And so you have, Exactly. You've trained yourself not to. So to untrain that, it takes a lot of work.  It still worked for me.  Like if I go somewhere in public, I don't know anybody, I can take over a room and be the life of the party. But put me in an environment where it's all family.  I get weird. I don't get, I'm not myself. So it's, it's. I'd like to see that. Yeah. It's really, it's really, you know, and I think I do a pretty good job of not feeling like or not looking like I'm uncomfortable. But I think you guys knowing me would see me kind of like, oh yeah, Adam's not really in his element. You just kind of magician your way out of it. Do you feel exhausted afterwards? Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that like in Katrina still like, you know, part of the work for me is to not allow to get frustrated about things. So for example, you know, her family, the way I am with like my childhood best friends and their family, like I'm very particular about getting over to visit them and spending time with them. And even if we just do absolutely nothing, I want to be with them for hours. Well, that's how she is with her family, right? I'm not that way with my family. And so a lot of patience on my part when it comes to like her preparing to do this. Like so this whole weekend was all about the graduation and going to Father's Day. So for two and a half days, it was all about the preparation. I mean, and she's spending like on Friday, it started Thursday and Friday of actually, no, Wednesday, started Wednesday of getting the stuff that they need to decorate and she's making all this homes. I mean, just crazy amount of effort and time put all into it. And that's it's challenging for me because then it didn't impedes on my time with her. And then it's really frustrating for me because I have my things that I like to go do and do on my own. And I know that's challenging for her when I'm like, well, yeah, I just want to go be by myself. I want to go be with my friends. And she doesn't, and she's getting it now. Like we've been together for a long time. So we've communicated this enough. So she sees now that the way I am with my friends, my really, really close friends that we grew up together is the same way that she is with her. That's my family. You know, so I'm very protective of them. I want to spend extra time with them. Like I don't want to be rushed with them. And so I have to be, I have to learn to be the same way when it comes to her family. Like I'm over there. I'm like, how long are we going to be here for? Is this going to be like a, is this an all night thing? Or is this going to be able to get home at a certain time? Like I want all those answers. And it's taking a lot of work for me to like, don't just relax, just go. This could turn into a two in the morning thing.  And it's important to her that I enjoy myself. And then I'm mingling with the family and stuff. So it's taking a lot of like practice on my part. It's a nice thing. I mean, when you really sit back and forget that maybe I'm, you know, I have to do this or I'm supposed to do this and just kind of realize why these things occur and why people do it. It's a really nice thing. It's nice that that family still do that or some families still do that. Because a lot of families don't, you know, and it's like, I used to trip me out when I was a kid, I'd have friends and I'd ask them, you know, well, what'd you do for Christmas? And like, oh, it was just, you know, me and my parents. Oh, what about your aunts and uncles? Oh, you know, they all do their own thing and stuff.  And eventually we had to split up because nobody had a house big enough for all the people. But at one point, our Christmas parties would get over almost 100 people. And we're talking in like a three or four bedroom, regular size, small family home. And it would be insane.   I am not sleeping on a goddamn floor. I'm sleeping back. I'm 36 years old and my house is 15 minutes away. But that's what they all come together. We'd have a garage set up with tables. We'd have tables set up outside. We'd have tables set up in the living room. I mean, bedrooms people would be hanging out. I remember Christmas, we would have a room dedicated to presents. So you'd open the door to a bedroom and it would be like, you couldn't walk in. There were too many presents. And it got pretty crazy. And that's when we had all of our cousins. Now we've had to split up because there's too many people, but we had to split up again. Because now we're all having kids.  She's excellent when she gets in with a small group or one-on-one and has conversation with people because she's very good at that, very empathetic. So no, I don't get... I can empathize with her. It is an overwhelming... I don't mind necessarily groups, especially if it's family, or other people's family, I can talk to people, but I empathize with her. So we'll usually leave a little early. We won't stay super, super late because I can see that she's... Towards the end of it, I can tell she's tired. It's a lot of stimulus thrown at you. Especially my family.  Everybody's, you know... This is just like Katrina's family. Food and espresso. People are pulling on my shirt to take shots and do all this. I'm getting interviewed by everybody. I'm the guy who's dating the very successful, beautiful niece of everybody. Katrina and her mom are kind of like the rocks in the family. And here I'm the guy who's dating her. So I'm getting bombarded from all angles. Everybody's interviewing me and challenging me and wanting to get drunk with me. At least you guys... I mean, to me, that sounds way more fun because in both families, like Courtney's family and my family, actually not so much my family, but her family, it's very tough to get conversation going. It's like this big... Everybody just kind of stares at each other. There's no stimulus. Nobody's playing games. Nobody's watching TV. Nobody's doing anything. It's like we're drinking, but we're just kind of staring at each other.  So I'm always trying to get the party going. It's so exhausting. I'm always trying to get everybody loosened up. That's so weird to me because Courtney doesn't strike me to be like that at all. No. But her parents are like this. Oh, wow. Is it just super kind of conservative? Yeah. Don't share too much. Think of it this way. So there's lots of engineers and lawyers. Super intellects. Super intellects. Overanalyzing everything. And I can't even pretend to have a smart conversation because they're going to take it into place where I'm like, I'll just get lost. Like laser optic engineer. Yeah. Good luck. You know, having like talking about sci-fi. I'm like, talk about like movies and stuff.  So, but yeah, it's that. And then I mean, my side of the family, like we play games and stuff.  And so I mean, there's a little bit of that. So there's some escape, but she's uncomfortable with that because she doesn't like playing games and all that.  We have really deep conversations. And in topics are typically not off limits. So, and Jessica likes that because she's like, oh my God, your family talks about, like we'll talk about anything. Politics, we could talk about religion. We could talk about, you know, people's relationship to food. We can talk about, you know, when we grew up and how we were with our parents. And so the conversations can get really deep and really heated. And she'll appreciate, she appreciates that because she likes that kind of, yeah, that kind of talk. But yeah, it's funny. We get home and I can tell, you know, poor girl, she's tired from all of it. Yeah, it's exhausting, man. Yeah, it's exhausting. It's a lot of work. Yeah, because I think that just, it doesn't seem like that much work for you. Oh no, I can get tired from it. Yeah. I can definitely get tired. Right, like if you can get tired from it, that you have to multiply it by 10 for her, right? Exactly. That you have to know that. But you know what, I'm lucky because I'm right. I think that Justin or what you said, I think that that would be way more challenging for me. At least her family is like loud and vocal and want to party. They want to play ping pong. They want to play basketball. Like, okay, that's cool. Yeah, you can kind of observe the chaos, right? Yeah. Versus like having to be the source of it. What's hard, what I found hard after seven years, so that's like her brothers and the cousins, like we've gotten tight over all these years. So that part's coming up. But every big party family, there's always 15 to 20 people I don't know. You know what I'm saying? That's a cousin. That's a best friend since childhood. So it's like the parties are so big that even after seven years, there's still people that I don't know. You know, I go there, it's only the first or the second time that I met him.     You know what I'm saying? Here they all are. There's the five of them that I see right there. There you go, kid. You remember that? Well, we actually, we saw some cousins that we hadn't seen in, I probably haven't seen them in like a few months, which for us is a long time to not see certain parts of our family. And they were just tripping over how fast my son's growing. So I measured him. The kids gained, he's growing like over half an inch a month right now. Like a ridiculous amount. But the funny thing is, his arms and his feet are growing faster than the rest of his body. So he just looks like a big spider. So I'll tell him, I said right now, I'm like, do your arms feel long to you? Way to make me self-conscious, dad. No, no, no, no. You know what? I've done a good. He's walking around like this now. No, he's like, yeah, he goes, my arms are as long as my friend's arms that are taller than me. And when you hear the kid talk now, his voice is really starting to crack. Oh man. It's the best thing in the world. I tried to explain that to my, to my eight-year-old, you know, like how his voice was going to change. There's going to be a moment where he's going to be like, hey, dad, go get me. I hear him yelling through his microphone. He's playing video games to his friends.  You guys, come get him. Help me out over here. I'm like, dude, can you hold it steady? And he tried to do the cracks. I still remember that, yeah. Oh, it's so funny. His little mustache is starting to come in. He's turning 13 next month, dude. Wow. When do you teach him how to shave? Does he shave yet? He doesn't have enough to really shave, but I- That's when you start, though. Oh, man. I mean, how old were you guys when he started shaving? That's about, that's close, dude. I mean, maybe, maybe 14. I think 14. Dude, how did your hair grow initially? Because like for me, it was like, oh, my neck. It was like random hairs that would grow. Like from here? Yeah, like it was like from the bottom up. You were a neck beard? Yeah, I was a neck beard. Dude, there's a guy in Los Gatos where I had my studio, this old man, who used to come in. I don't know where he came from. He had overalls on. He would always come to the shopping center and he shaved everything except his neck. So we used to call him neck beard. Wow. Because he had a big bushing beard. That's an interesting look. It was the weirdest thing, but anyway. But no, I think probably 14, dude. I can see, but I want to push it because I can't wait to have that moment with him where we shave together. Right. I mean, he hasn't asked for it. I mean, I think I remember asking for Christmas for like an electric razor. It was like when I asked for it. Not a good way to start. Did he ever just do it on his own and practice? No, no. Oh my God, my youngest. He tried to shave. Yes, he saw me doing it. And then so he tried to do it and was like, and he cut himself. I caught him in the mirror trying to shave as the funniest thing ever.   No, my daughter did though. My daughter did that. Really? Shave her face? Her legs. Oh, her legs.  Yeah, because, you know, listen. What is the right age that you let girls, what age are you supposed to be?  You know, here's the thing. I feel like that's less of a big deal than the makeup thing. That's a little like... I'm going to say something a little racist, but I can say it because it's my own culture. All right, I'm going to put my seat down. Italians tend to be hairy. I don't know if you guys knew this. And the girls tend to get hairy pretty quickly.  But she gets hair and stuff on her legs. She's a little kid. And so her friends would say stuff to her. And she's like, you know, she tells me, why are my legs hairy? I'm like, well, I mean, it's normal.  I told her, I said, have you seen your aunts? It's not as bad as your aunts. I said, have you seen your aunts arms? They look like mine, you know? Anyway, so I guess she went in the shower. So my ex told me this. She calls me on the phone. She's like, your daughter shaved her legs.  She got her razor and fucking. Already. Yeah, so now she shaves her legs. I think that's okay. She's eight. So what? I know. What are you going to do? Shaving legs.  It's accelerated faster for her in comparison to probably her peers. It's not that bad, but when you're young, you're so hyper over everything. Especially if your friend says something. You know what I mean? If your friend says something, then you're like insecure about it. I never knew what a unibrow was until somebody pointed it out on my face. Did you have a unibrow? Oh yeah. Do you pluck it now? Yeah, I do all the time. You still do? Just with my, yeah. Yeah, I have to too. It's when I think of it. You don't? I pluck it once, gone forever. Wow. I am not. I break the rules a little bit. See, all my hair's on my arms, dude. I have like no hair on my legs. You're both hairier than I am. Both of you guys are. No. I don't know about that.  It's just my arms on my back. Like chest, nothing. That's true. Yeah, it's weird. It's right through the pink. It's like everywhere I'm clothed, I'm good. Bro, you were cracking me up on the beach. Justin was looking at me. Oh, I got so red. Yeah, Justin was looking at me. He's like, why is your skin gold? I think it was the sunglasses I had on. You were shiny. Bro. I mean, I just had to point it out. It could have been this much. You actually look good though. I'm looking at you right now. It looks like your color. It turned good, bro. Yeah. Did you not peel at all? No. Yeah, I know, you look great. No, see, it's one of those things, dude. It takes a lot of time for me to build a base. You guys are just fucking, it just happens. He couldn't stop talking about it. He kept looking at me to start laughing. He's like, you have like a gold jean on your skin.  Like a bronze trophy.  It's my Sicilian jeans. Maybe that's it. Who had the article that they wanted to bring up?  Yeah. So what I saw was in the news, like with Fitbit, I guess what's happened is there's six of their employees got indicted that they hired on. What? Yeah, from Jawbone. So they came from Jawbone and basically gave a lot of the trade secrets from Jawbone to Fitbit. What? And so I think it was 2011, 2015. They've been going through these court cases of like lawsuits. So Jawbone knew about this. And so now this is all kind of surfacing and it's affecting Fitbit's business.  Dude, you know what? Their stock started dropping. I think I want to say like six months. Don't quote me on this. I know it's been about six months to eight months when it started to really hit, start going out. And what I thought it was more so too is it's just such, now that the technology is out there and you can reverse engineer anything these days and change just a tiny thing and then not get sued for it. So I feel like it's such a competitive space now. It's like not only are all the wearables that have been dominating the space still around, but then you also have got anybody and everybody that has an app now can now attach it to a wearable. I mean, our buddy Craig was working on a wearable for a minute there. It's like everybody's trying. And it's all just, yeah, repurposed. Like the same technology just got repurposed in different ways to bend around these patents. And so they went out of business, dude. Like Jawbone went out of business. And so it's interesting what's happening with this. Because Jawbone too, they were, they did the earpieces and they did other things besides just the wearable.  I really am because it's not, I don't think it's an awareness issue. I really think, because the people who end up buying those. I disagree with that. I know we've talked about this. Yeah, I disagree with it because, and again, I'm applying this with somebody right now.  That's just for that reason. Now, I think wearables just as a tool by itself without teaching someone how to use the tool. Yeah, it can be. But what tool isn't like that? I mean, if you just start swinging away with a hammer and no one's ever taught you how to swing with a hammer, it's like. You need to learn something from it. Right. But I think it's become, I mean, it's definitely for people that I've coached and trained. I mean, I'm wearing mine right now. And for that exact reason, even as well trained as I am, it's very easy for my day to get away from me. And then me go like, man, have I moved that much today? I feel like I've been active. And just to be able to have something that I can reference to kind of see my movement. But that's, that's what I mean. When it's going to be relevant is when they put it all together. And so like our, our buddy from Neutrino, you know, as an example of like trying to actually create a platform where they take in 23 and me. They take in, you know, their gut health. They take in the steps and they integrate all these different metrics out there that you can actually get like these sensors to passively aggregate all this data for you.  And then you could see if I just tweak this one area of what I'm doing in my day to day process, it's going to have massive impact. It is. But see, here's my point with that. Like if somebody hires you to coach them and you're going to use a tool, there's already a self-selection bias in the sense that that's a person who's already reaching out. Who's already aware enough to know to hire a coach. My skepticism is, is it going to impact just the people who are going to want to work out anyway? Probably. It's a tool. Is it going to impact people who don't, which is a majority of people? I don't think so. The reason why I still do is because of what we've seen over the last 10 to 15 years. And really over the last 50 plus years is the lack of movement and just the average person is just so unaware of that. Even if you don't know how to use the tool and even if it does create some bad habits or whatever with them, at least making them aware of how little they move throughout the day, I think is a step in the right direction or better off than not knowing it all or assuming. Maybe. I mean, of course, there's definitely a side of me that thinks more information is better. But I look at studies like when restaurants list calories and macros doesn't change eating habits. In fact, sometimes it goes in the opposite. When people become more aware of their activity levels through other means, it hasn't changed anything. Really the only thing that seems to change people's activity level is if where they're living, the culture is more active. In other words, if somebody from a suburb moves to an urban area where you have to walk everywhere, then people become more active because it becomes a part of their life. So I don't know. It's a tough one for me because we have more tools. We've had tools for a while now. It hasn't been hard to find out what's been in food for decades and yet people still seem to not really care. So I don't know, man. I don't know if it's more information or if it's just like a behavioral psychological thing. I don't know. I have a hard time saying that having more information, more metrics is a big canopy. Absolutely. But I think the more tools and resources that we have, the better off overall as a society we are. I agree. I agree. I definitely think that it's going to create bad habits. I definitely think there'll be people that will use it and go, oh, I did 10,000 steps today so then I can get a big man.  So I do see all of that happening, but I personally have seen just, I mean, we're talking about, and I didn't have it since the beginning of my training career, but about midway through. So pretty close to 1,000 people, hundreds for sure of people that I've impacted their lives by utilizing these tools and coaching them how to do it. Well, either way, it's like if you're a forward-thinking person and you're in that bias and you're trying to improve yourself, having those metrics is going to be valuable, but at the same time, if you're not that kind of person, you're going to seek out a coach eventually because you don't want to do the work yourself, right? You want somebody else to kind of tell you all the steps it's going to take to get you to your goal. And as a coach, having all of that and having reference points of their lifestyle and really peering in to more than just when I see them for the workout is super helpful. Well, it's like, are we better off with or without calculators? Same thing. Yeah. Same thing. I mean, people become so dependent on that they don't know how to... You're just long-divisioning. Right. I mean, are we as a society, are we better off with a tool like that? No, I'm not saying... I think you're right in the sense that more information is better. I'm just a little skeptical as to whether or not that is going to really change behaviors because ultimately people have to decide that they want to change, that they want to do things. You know, it's almost like, look, for a while now, it hasn't been really a lack of information. It's been there for a little while. Definitely been harder to access and it's definitely been harder to utilize, but I think a lot of people know that they probably should move more and probably eat a little less and that kind of stuff. So it's just, because I tell you what, you see these step counters have been around now in the market for a while, but have they really made a huge impact in terms of people's activity levels? By now, I think we would have seen a bigger change. Oh, I think it's too early. I think it's too early to say that. How long has Fitbit been around? They haven't been around that long, not even 10 years. Five years? Before that, the body bug. Right. Yeah. And it's not even, I mean, Fitbit, and I would say Fitbit and, I mean, the Nike Fuel Band and maybe Apple Watch, they've really made it mainstream.   It has been, well, it's founded in 2007, I don't think it's had real market penetration. Yeah, I didn't really get really popular until after 2010. But still, even then, we don't have a lot of, I think, data to support, whether it's bad or good. But no matter how you look at it, again, I just use the analogy of the calculator. I mean, has the calculator made some people dumber at doing math? Absolutely. But it's probably excelled others and it's become a tool that you now can become better at a lot of other things. Build off of that. Right. And I think of this as another tool like that. I think being able to understand, like using an app like Fat Secret and using a tool like Fitbit, can take you to another level of understanding yourself and nutrition and your body and how that all works without it for the average person. I think it's even more challenging. So I think it just brings a new level of awareness to people. Well, so I'm looking at studies right now because I figured there probably are some studies on whether or not these technologies actually increase activity or if they actually work. And I'm reading, they did do some studies on this and they found that randomized control trials involving 800 test subjects in 2013, 2014, found that after one year of use, a clip-on activity tracker had no effect on the overall health and fitness, even when it was combined with a financial incentive. Wow. Even to incentivize people with money, people still didn't do much with it. And another study in 2012 found that it didn't. You just got to decide. It's crazy. Well, it reminds me of old days. So now that going back to the hammer analogy and I know the hammer's a bad analogy because that's such an easy tool to use. I should use a tool that's a little more challenging to use. But imagine if someone just threw out all these tools and just said, hey, go figure out how to do it.  Well, I have to look deeper, but I would assume if it was a study, they probably gave 800 people Fitbits and they said, okay, here's how they work.  That's it. No education around it. No coaching around it. This is how they work. Go figure this out. Yeah. Well, I think coaching by itself would be more effective than anything else. Yeah. I mean, that would be ultimately. That's like giving somebody like... Well, again, just do some push-ups. It's, again, it's a tool. It's one thing. So don't you think it's naive of anybody to use a tool without learning about the tool? I mean... Or just changing their behaviors. I think it's going to go back to coaching always. I don't think... That's what I'm saying. I think these tools with the coach could be phenomenal by themselves. Coaching or education. I feel like if you listen to Mind Pump enough, we've talked about this, all a lot of this stuff, you know, I think that that would help.  I mean, just because it's a wearable, it's not going to hurt you. It's not going to do anything. Really, it's just being aware of your patterns, you know, and so it's like, if they just see numbers, it's just numbers like, oh, I did this this week. I did it like, there's no relevance to it. You haven't given it any value. So in order to give it value, you have to set out goal specifics and have programming attached to it and have coaching.  I'm just seeing numbers. Well, the thing about a coach that's so effective, besides the education and the coaching aspect of it, is the accountability.  I'm not moving right now. But if I have a coach who's a human, who I have to be accountable to, now I'm like, okay, my coach told me I should do this. I probably could, you know, okay, I'm going to do this because I know my coach is going to talk to me about it. But if it's an electronic, it's, you know, it's not the same. It's just that whole behavioral thing. I think we need to really, I understand as a trainer that the information I give my clients is not nearly as valuable as the support. It was the support that was the most valuable thing that I think they found. Of course. That's where I thought Fitbit was on the right track because they had like, it was very community-based. So you could connect easy with people, Facebook friends and all that stuff. That was like shareable. And so like people could monitor, like have accountability with, you know, peers. So that, I think that piece in itself is valuable. I like the practice of like doing an activity, ritualizing an activity, like going for a walk after every meal or in the morning when I have my coffee going for a walk or something like that where you ritualize it. Because when you connect it to something that you're going to do every day anyway. So you know though what led to that personally for myself was the beginning of tracking and making, becoming aware of that. You know what I'm saying? Like otherwise, I didn't... Like where you could fit it in? Yeah, I started to realize, whoa, I could easily, and this is still today, right? I can easily go from a 3,000 step day to a 18,000 step day. And the difference for me at 6'3, 210 pounds right now, that's a difference of 1,500 calories burned in a day, roughly, you know, give or take. And so just to give you an example, I mean so... Not to mention all the health benefits and the food benefits. Right, right. So just, and so I could easily string three of those low days together. I can easily string three of those high days together. And so therefore my nutrition and my intake should reflect that some way based off of my goals. And so most people are just clueless of that because they've never really paid attention to that. And so to me, at least doing that, and then, because you don't, again, you don't want to become dependent on it either, right? You don't want to like, oh, I can only be fit when I'm following my Fitbit. I have my coach.  But I think enough practice of utilizing the tool to become aware of it. So it becomes your... And then you try, then you start to implement habits. I mean this morning I got up extra early just to go for a three mile walk because I know that I'm on my A game right now and I know that's some of the things that I just need to incorporate in order for me to be able to have some flexibility within a diet. Otherwise, I can't have any flexibility when I'm only moving 3,000 steps. Right, right, right, right. Hey, I wanted to ask you to share some cool weird science that I read about this morning. So you know when you stay in the water for a long time, how your fingers get pruney and stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know why that happens? No, I don't. I had no idea. No. So I thought it was... Osmosis. Oh, it has to do with the water doing something to your skin? No, it has nothing to do with that because when people have nerve damage to their fingers, they don't get prune, they don't get pruney. So if you have nerve damage to your hands and you put your hand in water, you could soak it in there and you won't get pruney at all. It's actually a function of the central nervous system or somehow a function of the central nervous system. And the reason why it happens is to help us grip things that are wet. Oh, weird. This is what they believe because they did these tests on this.  So this is a leftover... Where did you read this? I read this morning. Yeah, I read this. I thought it was cool. I read this morning. Maybe we were Aquaman first? Yeah, dude. Well, we definitely... Mermen. Not definitely, but the... Mermen. You know what's so funny? You were a mermaid, don't lie. Dude, there was like a... There was some show out there. I think it was on the Discovery Channel that was totally like fake, you know? Like, we just found a mermaid. Oh, are mermaids real? Yes. Like Courtney for a second, like believed it. She's like, oh my God, look at this. So I was like... I had an entire argument with my ex-wife about that. What? Yes. We argued and I'm like, this is fake. There are no mermaids. This would be the biggest news of all time. Like forever, right? This is real. She's right there with unicorns. She's like, it's real. I'm like, no, it's not real. Yeah. But anyway, yeah. Aquatic ape theory, right? No, but apparently we evolved. Everybody, everything evolved from the ocean, right? That's really interesting. If you have nerve damage, you could put your hand in the water and you will not have prune skin or whatever. And so they did these studies where people were grabbing things that were wet to see how well they could grip it. And there's something like 12 to 15% increase in gripability when your skin is pruning. So it's a fucking... It makes a lot of sense. So it makes sense. We'd be in the water fishing around for hours trying to catch a fish so we could eat. And then finally they start to... That's crazy. Isn't that weird? That is weird. Yeah, that is a fun fact. This quiz brought to you by Organifi. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organifi fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health the performance of the added edge. Try Organifi totally risk-free for 60 days by going to Organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. And use a coupon code MINEPOMP for 20% off at checkout. All right, our first question is from the Dave Lifestyle. What's the best method in your opinion to track your BMR? Yes. You know why I picked this question? Because you can go online and try to figure out your BMR. So many formulas. And they're all wrong. Yes. They're all going to be wrong.  The variance between your basal metabolic rate from individuals is so dramatic and your own metabolism can be changed dramatically. Yeah. And without changing your lean body mass or fat, although those do affect your basal metabolic rate, you could weigh the same and you could increase or reduce your metabolic rate just through the way you feed yourself. Do you ever do the body gem where you breathe into it and all that? And it's just like, it was so frustrating because it would change all the time. We'd retest and it was like totally something completely different. Well, we talked about this when we interviewed Lane. We talked about reverse dieting. And then I did that video on YouTube with Holly. And it's totally true. We'll take a client and let's say it's a female and she's been dieting hard for always. She's always in a deficit. Lots of cardio. Metabs are really slow. I've done this a million times. This isn't super out of the ordinary. I've seen it happen all the time. And let's say she's consuming 1200 calories a day and anything over that she'll gain weight. Well, over the course of six months where we slowly increase her calories, changes stimulus with resistance training, let's say in six months she gains three or four pounds of muscle, which is a lot of muscle for a female to gain. That three or four pounds of muscle does not account for the 800 more calories she can eat a day now.  It shouldn't. So there's something else that's happening and we don't quite know what is going on. And the reverse can be true also with somebody who's constantly trying to feed their body to gain weight. I was in this, you know, in this scenario where I was always trying to put on mass, always, always, always. And I'd get to the point where 4,000 calories, you know, and I'd lift weights once a day. It wasn't like I was doing cardio stuff. 4,000 calories to maintain anything under that. And I would lose weight. And it's because I got to the point where my basal metabolic rate got so high. Till today, the best way that I've ever found to track basal metabolic rate is the hard way, which is track your food, see how many calories you're eating every single day. If you're not gaining weight, assume that that is your basal metabolic rate and then work from there. Because everything you get online is so... I know, like tracking your weight and the consistency and try and keep your meals consistent. Yeah, that's hard because you've got to do that for an extended period of time too. It can't be for a couple days. You're like, oh, that's where I'm at. It's not going to give you any valuable data. Yeah, you need to go for a few weeks minimum before I would tell somebody, like, that's a good place to get your BMR. Because easily stress, sodium, water, carbohydrate intake, all will manipulate your weight up or down significantly for each person individually. So making sure that you're somewhere consistent about it. And again, here's another place where I see value in these tools. Like, okay, I'm trying to figure out what my BMR is. So I'm not really going to train really much. This next two weeks, I'm going to just move and stay consistent with my movement. Like, okay, I step 8,000 steps per day on a normal day. So I'm going to stay right around that range. I'm going to eat like around these calories and kind of see what happens up or down from your weight. And that gives you a better idea. So here's a place where I would implement this tool to kind of figure that out. Yeah, really? Finding that maintenance. What does that really look like? It is because the numbers can be super dramatic. I mean, I've had big clients whose basal metabolic rate, once we figured it out, was very low. These are people over 200 pounds.  And it's funny because when I first started as a trainer, I'd say probably the first six to eight years, I thought they were lying. I totally thought they were lying, completely. And definitely a good chunk of people are lying, many times because they're unaware, but sometimes they're not. And it would blow me away that there were people like that. And then there would be people who were so much smaller, but because of the stimulus that they placed on their body and the way they would eat would consume, you know, two times as many calories. I mean, the difference can be so dramatic. Well, this question even, you know, lines up with what you just said about the step counter.  It's like, well, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know if I've ever even used that as a tool. It's a moving target. Anyway, changing is frustrating because people hang on those numbers. Like it's like, like super accurate. And I mean, that's really why we pulled a lot of the calculators out of like our nutrition guide, because it's like, it's so subjective. It's not like, you can't pinpoint it like that. Like you have to go through that process of like a couple of weeks of understanding your body on that level and like what you're putting in, what your daily habits consist of movement-wise and then like figure that out to where like, have I been gaining? Have I been losing? Like all that stuff, it takes time. There's so many variables. And then we didn't even talk about like inflammation or gut issues or other things that people could have. So you could be totally hitting where you should be calorie-wise, movement-wise. Think you're right on target for your BMR, but then you have like some sort of a food allergy that you're dealing with. And so then your body's retaining and holding more water because there's so many variables. So to get hung up on your BMR because you took some tests and they said, oh yeah, your BMR is, you know, 1,900 calories. So you're like, oh cool. So I actually just had somebody DM me this exact question. She was asking that. She said, oh, my BMR is 1,300. So, you know, would you suggest staying at that and trying to lose weight through exercise and cardio or should I try to, you know, reverse diet or try to increase my metabolism? And I directed her to the why cardio sucks YouTube video you did and then also the Lane Norton episode because I thought we kind of touched on both those topics in that. But you know, this is an area where, like the Fitbit too, I think when people use the tool and they get caught up on the, oh it says I burned this much. It's like that's where these things are really not useful is when you get hung up on the specific- They don't know. They have no idea. I used to hate that. It's not like pinpointed inaccurate. No, I used to hate that one. But that being said, I also want to defend it in the fact that that doesn't mean it's worthless. No. It doesn't mean that because we're saying that, oh, don't get hung up that it says you're burning 2,500 calories. It could be totally wrong. Well, it could be. But what they're good at is that they're good at reading consistently, right? That's it. So like- So you can see if it's up or down. Right. That's it. So use it more like that versus oh, my body is this calorie amount. No, that may not necessarily be true. No, it's like the cardio machines.    So you do like two and a half hours of cardio? Dude, remember? Oh, no, it says 45 minutes on the elliptical, 1,200 calories. Remember when we got the body bug and then we had the same clients go through and test each one of those cardio pieces of equipment? It was always like at least four to 500 calories burned more than what they were actually burning based off of the more sophisticated senses they had. The first week that body bug came out, I was one of the test FMs again. This was way back when, right? It was 12, 15 years ago. Right. And I was so excited about it and because they were promoting how it's 94% accurate, right? As far as the calories burnt. So for a week, I consistently got up at 6 o'clock in the morning, didn't eat, went straight to the gym and I went for an hour as hard as I could on a piece of cardio equipment and I rotated all the equipment to measure what the equipment was saying and then measure what my body bug was saying. And dude, some of them were like way off. Like, my body bug would read that I was like 350 to 400 calories burned.  And the Stairmaster would say 1,000 calories. Whoa! Do you know why they wanted you to feel good? Yeah. Because you're doing it. You're doing something.  You know why they do that, right? First of all, nobody checks. Nobody knows. Nobody cares, right?  The reason why cardio machines do that in the first place is because they know if it tells you a higher number, it's selling itself to be used. And I know this because members would literally tell me, I want to use that one because I burn more calories on that one.  They actually use like a specific algorithm like all of them.  You know, that's like, that has X amount of lean body mass on them or whatever. Artie has awesome metabolism. Yeah, no, that's what they use. So they use somebody who's got like this roaring metabolism that's a male, has a lot of muscle on their body. And here's the other thing you want to keep in mind too with your BMR is, you know, I could, if I could figure out my BMR right now exactly, I could change that number within a few days of activity and nutrition. Or stress. Or stress or whatever.  Food intolerance, right? Well, how can that change your BMR? Well, a food intolerance has caused a systemic kind of inflammatory response in the body. How does the body respond when that happens? Well, you release cortisol, your liver dumps glycogen. This is why people can get a spike in blood sugar after eating foods with no carbohydrates if they have like a food intolerance or strong intolerance to them. All these things can affect your BMR and so it becomes not that important. It really starts to become not that important. So then it goes back to, because when you look at, I mean, there's a bajillion ways now to test for this. And all of them are probably within a few percent of each other. So it doesn't matter which one's more accurate to your actual BMR. They all will work to give you a baseline or a starting point. Just always use that the same exact way you applied it. Right. That's it. That's how I would coach them. Just like I coached them on using body fat percentage. Same exact thing too. It's like we can sit here and debate all day long if the DEXA scan or the, you know, dunk tank or the skin fold. Which one's more accurate? Which ones? But they all have room for error. They're all within a few percent of what they, they claim to be accurate.  What matters is where you start, whatever you go and apply and do from there. Then you know a direction. Right.  That's it. Next question is from Ryan Aldoenda. Your thoughts on walking after eating. You spoke about waiting before you consume food after working out because you want to be in a parasympathetic state to digest food. But you also spoke about the benefits of walking after eating and eating digestion.  No, depends how you walk. Walking can be very meditative and relaxing. The idea of walking post meal is not to go for a workout. That would probably not be a good idea immediately afterwards. You could wait an hour or two and then do it like if you want to go for a run and stuff like that. Right after you work out, if you look at the cultures that value a stroll post meal, many Asian cultures do this, Mediterranean cultures do this. I know when I go visit family in Sicily, that tends to be something that we do after we eat. It is not a fast walk. We are literally strolling, having nice conversation. The idea is for, it's a relaxing movement. And so it is very parasympathetic. Now we can say that sleep is also parasympathetic, but I'll make the argument that laying horizontally and not moving is probably worse for digestion post eating. No, I think about it for gravity. Gravity is going to help that process alone.  And you know, it's funny, if you look at the anatomy of the muscles that are involved when you walk, in particular some of the hip flexors like the psoas, the psoas kind of goes through the body and is around your digestive organs. And many times moving the psoas muscles does help the digestive process. It allows things to kind of travel. In fact, you know, when you have, if you have, one of the tests that they do for appendicitis is what's called a psoas test. And what they'll do is they'll have you activate your psoas and if you feel pain right away, because the psoas is literally right there, that happens to be one of the ways that they can identify whether or not you have, you know, inflamed appendix. But it's very, it definitely does help with the digestive process, but it is not a fast, it's not a fast walk. You're going very slow.   So it's not, and it's not supposed to be like this rigorous exercise. We're not power walking when Katrina and I do it. It's a very, very slow casual stroll. It's not designed to get my heart rate up. Like blood flow, yeah. You're just trying to just casually go through it so everything can kind of start. It's natural process of moving down. I mean, it has a lot of movement has to occur to be able to get it through everything in small intestine. And sympathetic and parasympathetic, and I'm going to make a statement that might be a little controversial, but has more to do with your state of mind than it does than your, necessarily what your activity is like. So I'll give you an example. If we took a, you know, a world champion marathon runner and we had him go on a run, you know, outside in a relaxing run in nature, that could be very meditative for that individual. I could see somebody who's very out of shape pushing themselves could cause a sympathetic state. But here's another example. I know when I used to train clients, so when I would train, you know, between six to 10 people in a day, and this is back when I used to eat. How do they define it right now? Is it by heart rate? This has to do with your central nervous system. So they don't define it by heart rate? Well, I mean, heart rate's part of it, yes. Heart rate can be a part of it, but it has to do with your neurotransmitter production. It has to do with your catecholamines, your hormones.  And for sure, without moving, you'd go sympathetic real fast.  That's my worst nightmare. But when I used to train clients, back in the day, I'd have eight people in a day and I would also eat six to eight times a day. And I remember this was a very terrible way of eating. Client would leave, I'd have five minutes to eat a full meal before my next client.  I wasn't running, I wasn't moving.  And then we meet with people like Paul Check who talks about prayer before food or mindfulness and you can see the state that he places his body in when he eats. What's his name? Talked about this also. What's his name? Pekolski. Talked about this as well. You know, about the state of mind. You go into your food and out of your food.  Now we're talking about somebody with really, really bad gut issues, but that change in state of mind has made a tremendous, she says tremendous benefit in how she digests food. So walk, it's how you walk. You know what I mean? Like Adam, when you go for a walk, post meal, would you talk about taking your dogs, go barefoot? I'm assuming it's just really relaxing. Oh yeah, it's extremely relaxing and slow. Yeah, it's not strenuous at all. That's the same thing. That's the way my family does it. Like after we eat, especially if we have a big family dinner and my dad wants to go on a walk, we walk, we have good conversation. It's, you know, it's relaxing.  But literally what she's doing is she's focusing on every point of contact on her foot as she's stepping and being extremely mindful of every single step. And that is a very, very parasympathetic state. But walking, post food, one of the other reasons why I like it so much, and we mentioned this earlier in the episode, is when you attach activity to a ritual that you do every single day, you tend to be more consistent with it. This is why people, when they work out in the morning, people who work out in the morning tend to be more consistent than people who work out in the evening after work. And I think it has to do with the fact that when you wake up in the morning, it's part of your ritual. You do it before anything gets in the way. Whereas when you wait till the end of work, that workout could be pushed out one or two or three hours depending on what's happening during the day. It becomes less ritualized and becomes something that you can push out. Oh, the best success I've had, especially with clients with Prime and pinpointing what we could do in order to improve a lot of these deficiencies was to just apply that sequence. So whether it's band pull-aparts, whether it's hip flexor-based mobility, they would do that first thing. After they woke up in the morning and they went through this ritual, then set themselves up for the day. And then the rest of the day is activity. And then they keep hitting on those points throughout the day. But it's getting consistency by ritualizing it. I mean, test this out yourself. If you ever have sharp gaspanes in post-meal or you feel bloated, try it out. Go for a 20-minute slow stroll and watch what happens. First of all, if you have gaspanes, the movement will help facilitate the movement. Blow it out, yeah. I mean, you'll find yourself letting the gas out or whatever and feeling a lot better. It definitely makes a huge difference. It's something that I've been doing since I was a kid and I kind of took for granted until you brought it up, Adam. And now it's a part of your daily, I guess, ritual. Do you do it after just dinner? I try and do it after any meal that I can, but for sure after we have dinner. For sure after we have dinner, and definitely when we eat out. So if we ever get lazy on it, it might be after a late-night dinner or a late meal for us at our house. But if Katrina and I are eating out, it's mandatory for us. And it's easy, too. Well, I feel like, too, I'm killing two birds, maybe three birds with one stone by doing this because it's also created an incredible time for her and I. It's great quality time. I mean, there's no distractions.  So we're not walking together and working on our phones or anything like that. So it's just her and I walking out in nature and just kind of conversing. And it's crazy to me because there's a very distinct switch from one side to the other. The first, I don't know, quarter mile of walking is kind of like settling down completely. And then once we've walked about a quarter mile, you can hear the conversation. You can tell the way we're moving and talking back and forth. It becomes very relaxing for us. But it's something that I've found has been really important, not just for my digestion and some of that, which is what we're talking about right now, but even for my relationship. And even if you don't have a partner, I've learned to start practicing this. Today, I was obviously all by myself. I got up, I had a cup of coffee, some breakfast, and then I went on a really long walk for about three, four miles. And it was all by myself and I had my headphones in. I was listening to something relaxing. Anything you could do where you're not just plopping from the TV and being mindless and not talking to your partner. It's going to benefit your relationship and the rest of your day. So as much as I can practice that, whether it's walking or just doing stuff around the house or whatever. It's so crazy to me because I used to knock it when I was a young trainer. I feel so bad too because I'd have clients say, oh, I go for a walk. And I'd be like, pfft, you're not doing anything. We're not burning very much doing that. But getting older now and seeing the other value besides just calories. Sure, when you go for the three mile walk that I took this morning, yeah, I didn't burn 500 plus calories doing it. But the other benefits that come with that, I think sometimes I think can supersede the calorie expenditure that most people are chasing. If you just go by calories being burned, you're missing out on, you know, 80% of the other benefits. It's also a fantastic practice to do if you have kids. Now, I have yet to really implement this with my kids, but now that we're talking about this, this is just, it's extending the family time. You know, take 15 minutes. And also, because it's ritualized, I feel like if you connect it to the post meal, like this is what we do after we eat dinner, I feel like the kids will just do it automatically with us or not complain about it because it's not out of the blue. It's like, this is what we do after we eat. We all go for a walk. And you're absolutely right. It's the conversation is fantastic. You know, we talked in that episode. This is why the Ben Greenfield episode we did was one of my favorite episodes. And we should probably revisit this type of a conversation more often. And I'm trying to get in the habit of paying more attention so I can then give this information to our audience because really a lot of the success that I've had later on in life is creating these little tiny rituals. For example, what comes to mind too is, you know, it's important for me to spend, I don't have kids, right? So my kids are like my dog.  If you neglect the dogs and I don't ever walk them, I don't ever spend time with them.  They're bad. They behave well when I spend time with them. So, you know, and then over the last year and a half, two years, my mobility has been a major thing that I've been working on.  And so I intentionally will do that. So I'll walk up to them, get all the way down into my squat. I'll open my hips up. I'll posture kind of up. And then I'll play with them and stuff and just creating those types of habits. I'm not really having to even exercise that hard, but I'm also training my body to be comfortable in that position. And I've seen it now pay dividends in my training. Absolutely. It's interesting because this year was a big thing, a shift, you know, figure out what was really causing this chronic inflammation as far as acid reflux and all that and get a handle over that. But also it was just like trying to contribute a bit more around the house and all that. And so I just like, I didn't make it a firm thing for me, but I just started to notice that I would do this and then I just tried to replicate this as much as possible where I wouldn't sit down until like 8.30, 9 o'clock after I put the boys to sleep. And it was like game changer because if I'm coming in the house and then I'm just like, oh, and then to sit down, good luck. Getting me back out. Getting momentum to keep going. It's not that I was in a state of stress or anything. I just would, you know, just casually kind of cruise around and talk and converse and then just, you know, inevitably you're doing things. You're putting things away. You're just more productive. The household is more in a state of chill. And that was like a huge thing.  But yeah, those two things alone were huge. No, ritualizing things is, humans have been ritualizing things forever. There's a reason why a ritual exists in the first place and we take for granted why we have rituals and we make fun of them. But the reason why they exist in the first place is it is a very simple, easy way and a very brilliant way that our brains put things in categories and help us remember them. When you wake up in the morning, I guarantee you have a morning ritual. Everybody does. You brush your teeth the same way or at the same time, either before or after you go to the bathroom and you shower a particular way and you put your shoes on a particular way and we tend to do these things and we take them for granted and if you throw something in into a ritual that you already have established, the likelihood that you'll do it more consistently is much higher. If I say I need to walk three times a day and that's that, much more difficult than if I attach that walk to my workout. The supplement industry was brilliant in designing some of their supplements. Pre-workout. Pre-post-workout. They were brilliant in that because they ritualized taking supplements because it's ritual around your workout that you're not going to miss because obviously you're into working out. So it's just a fantastic technique and eating is, I can't think of something people don't do more consistently than eating every day, right? That's the most consistent thing we do. Which is also why I think that's one of the most important times to make a ritual of moving. Exactly. Right, because around that, because we do tend to eat more than we need as a society. So creating a ritual around that habit with a good habit, I think is really... Pizza and football is not a good ritual. And who did that, right?  Exactly. Exactly. Look at TV dinners. They got me. TV dinners, by the way, brilliant. You know, before that, people didn't really sit down. It wasn't that big thing to sit down in front of TV. It was the food manufacturers that are like, hey, this is a great way to eat. Sit in front of the TV, eat your food, and now that's what everybody wants to do. You know what? I wonder how many families... It'd be interesting to see how many of our listeners... I love a thread on our form to get going on this of how many people actually sit down and do family dinners.  Turn your TV on. Turn your TV on or your phone. Did you guys have... We had every night family dinners. I did have family dinners. Even then, my parents did. That was a big deal. It's such a good thing. Yeah, that was a big deal that we had family dinners together. So... But I know a lot of people that don't. I know. Yeah. Next question is from Ms. Fitnerdi. What is something you've said on the podcast before that you have since learned is not true or has been disproven? Oh, wow. I can think of two off the top of my head. Oh, right away, huh? Yeah, right away. One is pre-workout supplements. So when we first started Mind Pump, we railed against supplements. And most supplements and pre-workouts in particular, but we gave people a recipe to create their own pre-workout. And some of the stuff that I had put in there was like branched amino acids, glutamine, arginine, citrulline, and then caffeine and beta-alanine and stuff like that. And I said, here, mix it yourself. Buy the powder yourself and then you have yourself a good pre-workout. Since then, really, there's only maybe two things that really may benefit you pre-workout. And that's a stimulant of some sort like caffeine. And really, it's about the performance that you're putting in your workout. So are there long-term benefits? If it helps you work out better or whatever, yes. In some cases, it may not benefit you. Beta-alanine, in the case of stamina, can help people out. That's actually been proven. But BCAAs and glutamine and stuff like that, not going to do anything for you, really. If you get enough protein, it's not going to help you out at all. And we actually took that off our site. I think we had that recipe on there for a while. Yeah, we had that for a while. And we took that down, yeah. The other one I can think about is how we talked about foam rolling. Yeah, that was the first one that stuck out. And I think it was after, we had actually dove into Dr. Spina and his explanation of how that all worked. And so that was interesting because not only that, but then after that, we realized how different it was for how we were explaining it about myofascial release and how that's not really happening. Yeah, and that process, that's what led us to create prime after that, too. We figured out the central nervous system and now that plays a role. Exactly, because I used to think of, and I remember thinking of it this way because a massage therapist explained it to me this way and I thought this was, oh, that kind of makes sense. And this is the way I used to explain it and I was totally wrong. But if you look at muscle fibers, if you look at a picture of anatomy, look at muscle fibers, they all run parallel to each other, right? And they go from attachment to attachment.  And the way that was explained to me was that sometimes these fibers get entangled and bundled around each other and you have to press on them to get them, you know, distangled or whatever or kind of get them to straighten out a little bit. I was always taught it was like adhesions that would build up scar tissue the opposite direction the fibers would run and that was breaking it up. Yeah, also wrong, right? And then, you know, really what we learned as we did the podcast, and we learned this pretty quickly, it was like six months into the podcasting, was that no, no, no, when you apply pressure, it's all a central nervous system.  It's literally telling the central nervous system to relax and then those muscle fibers relax and that's pretty much it. So on that note, something else that reminds me of that we said that was wrong or that we clowned on that later on that we saw value in were the vibrating plates. Yes, that was a big one. Along the same exact line of that, we were talking a lot of shit about the vibrating plates when they first come out, but when we found out more of the science behind it that supports and what it does as far as relaxing the central nervous system through the vibration still allows you to take somebody into a deep squat. Well, you could feel it too. Oh, I mean, I remember we... We just didn't really know how to explain it and I think that it was very gimmicky, you know, the way that like, oh, I just didn't do a squat in this. Oh, I'd do a lunge on it, but like they didn't really get into the purpose of it. And so we dove into that and was like, oh, there's some value.  And then I got a membership at Club Sport or we were all going there and they had one of those vibrating plates. And I was sitting on it or standing on it and doing a squat and turning it on and just messing with it. And I realized that I could get much deeper. And then I thought about it for a second. Like, you know that the powerful vibrations are literally tricking my CNS into relaxing. It's almost like anytime you use vibration in your body, that's what it does, is it sends that signal to the CNS. I think this is how vibrators work, even when women use vibrators. And that's why I can cause those kinds of reactions. And so it's just telling the CNS to kind of relax because the powerful vibration, then you get a greater range of motion. And so we had to take it back. Bigger orgasm. Yes. So we had to kind of take it back, you know, what we said originally about that. Right. So I remember that one. I'm trying to think of what else I got disproven. Oh. Electronical. I mean, I thought that was a word. I got disproven. Although I'm still fighting for that though. I really am like, Sal just used technologies and I feel like like electronicals would have been better to use that. We're developing your own glossary. Yeah. We're just going to list all these and it's going to become your own. Right. If you count all the... Library of words. Yeah. If you count all the words I've made up on this show, then there's a lot of things that have been disproven. Yeah. Definitely. I'm trying to remember what else that we were... You know, it's funny. A long way... We correct it right away though. That's the reason why I think I don't... I know we've had a lot more than just that. For sure. But what we do and what we've always promised to do on this show is that if there's anything that we ever talk about that we're disproven about, we'll immediately come out and call it out right away. So I don't think there's... I think there's been a lot of things that just don't stand out because we make mistakes all the time.  You know what? I read something that's actually not true. It's more like this. And then we explain. Or we get people...  And they are real quick to let us know. You know what I'm saying? We say something on the show and then we get on our forum or we get DMs. It's mainly details. Like facts or things.  I got one where I was really wrong when we were talking about childbirth. And I was talking about how dangerous childbirth war was for most of human civilization, how lots of women died from it, how it was... Now the potential for childbirth is dangerous, for sure. But it's not nearly as dangerous as I thought it was. The reason why we have such a bad history of it in Western medicine is the way we would do childbirth. It was filthy. We'd have women on their backs and we treat it as a medical emergency. And I watched this whole documentary on natural childbirth and how different the process was when it was done with like a midwife who understood the natural process. And so I did some deeper digging. I had someone on the forum who was a midwife and she corrected me. She's like, no, you're wrong, Sal. So I went back and apologized to her and she was absolutely right. But I remember that because that was a mind-blowing one for me. And then I think I said something recently about Australia not helping World War I or World War II. That was wrong, too. You guys helped out quite a bit. You're on your own on that one. Yeah, you know me. Next question is from Michael Salzel. As the masculine men you guys are, how would you approach trying to raise an LGBT son or daughter? Oh, wow. Wow, this is interesting. What a controversial, great thought-provoking question. You know, it's funny. I'd be lying if I said I never thought about it. I mean, I think everybody has thought about it. Of course. You know why I thought about this? Here's a deal for me, okay? If my kid is a good person, I don't care. I really don't.  If you're a good person, it's not that big. Now, the part that I do care about is, is this going to pose different challenges for you in society and in life? And thankfully, these days, it's less and less of an issue. And so that may be the thing that would change my approach. I may say things like, okay, look, you know, people may judge you or you may be in a situation where somebody may look at you differently as a result. And so I may talk to them about that type of stuff.  Masculinity, for me at least, is just about taking responsibility, protecting your family, you know, and having integrity. But I don't even know if that's necessarily masculine as much as that's so- I think you could consider us macho men. You know, I think we're masculine men. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a masculine man. I think it's a healthy good thing. I'm not trying not to be. The word has been perverted a little bit. You know what I mean? To mean something totally different. Well, now it's like toxic, you know. It's unfortunate that it's toxic. It shouldn't be toxic. I don't think so at all. There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. I think macho men is a little bit different. I think if you have that, if you attach yourself to it, and this wouldn't bother me. Like, I've thought about this. For me, if and when I have kids or when and if I have kids, if they're healthy, my biggest fear is that is if I had a child that was disabled or special needs. Which is already to find the odds because of how many variables are out there when your kid is being brought up. You never know. The genetic hand is giving and passing on and we're gonna have to battle. So obviously that's priority one. Right. So for me, having a healthy child would 100% be the number one concern that I would have or the biggest thing that would scare me or worry me. Like, oh my god, because I don't know if I'd be ready for that. I mean, I know I would because I would do whatever it takes, but that would be really, really tough. This is a tough question. I mean, my first reaction is I wouldn't treat them any differently than I would, you know. Like, whether or not they're straight or like, you know, like just male, female. Like, there's a person.  I'm gonna try and instill as many like good values in them as I can and immorality and like thinking about other people and, you know, those type of values and carrying that on. But yeah, it's like, what are you gonna do?  And that's the biggest lesson, I think, that, you know, parenting has taught me so far as like, as much as I feel like I'm steering, you get humbled, you know, the entire way through and it's just like, wow, I can, I just try and like plant seeds, plant seeds, plant seeds as much as I can. But, you know, to be, to have an opinion, like, I'm gonna change this and I'm gonna make them this way and all this.  Well, do you, do you, I'm curious to what you both believe. Do you believe that it's a 100% genetic or do you think social also plays a role in this? Oh, both. Both. But it doesn't matter. It's all together. It doesn't matter. That's always a question, right? That's like the thing like, oh, it doesn't matter. I was born this way. I don't have a choice. If you do have a choice, it shouldn't matter anyway. If you're an adult, you're not hurting anybody. That's fine. And look, here's my evidence for it being also a choice. There's definitely a genetic component. We can see this with twin studies. So we find that when there's twins, identical twins, if one of them is gay, then the likelihood that the other one will be gay is much, much, much higher. So there's definitely a genetic component. But there's also a choice component.  Girls may do this to get sometimes attention at bars. Men in prison may do this, or at war may do this. You know, depending on the culture, it's been accepted in other cultures.  So I definitely think there's, it's both, the way I raise my kids is to have good character, integrity, and to respect themselves. And that's pretty much it. Well, staying along those lines, though, I'm gonna keep challenging you guys since you're the two that have kids. I don't have kids. And so I'm curious to, you know, if you, like Justin with your boys, well, I guess this wouldn't happen because you have two boys. You probably don't have Barbies laying around anywhere. But if you had a, your boy was gravitating towards, like feminine toys, right? So like dolls, things like that, would you encourage him to play with trucks and do guns and things like that at an age? And Sal, you have a male and a female. So I'm curious if you ever saw any behaviors like this where your son gravitated to more, you know, feminine type of things of play and then you're in your... Well, to be, I mean, let's be, like, radically honest about this. Like, I honestly, like, I would start with the guns and the tanks and the fucking, you know, because that's where I'm coming from. You know, but like... That's because what you like to play with. That's what I like to play with. And so I would start with that and then kind of see what happened. Like, you know, it would be something that would reveal itself, I would think. Right. You know, down the road.  And so it's just natural for me to like, okay, I was into this. Let's see if they're into this, you know. And if they're not, then here's where we start figuring out. I think people put, first of all, statistically speaking, this is a, this is established in psychology. And they've done studies for this for decades. So this is not controversial to say, but boys tend to be more into things and girls tend to be more into people. So girls tend to want to play with dolls and they want to talk to each other.  This has just been established. Can you separate the, you know, society from that and the genetics from that? They've tried and it seems like there's a big genetic component. Evolutionary speaking, we can make an argument for it. But at the end of the day, just don't make a big deal about it. You know what I mean? Like if my kid wants to play with Barbies, then that's what we're playing with. You know what I'm saying? I guess my question is then, neither of you have had to deal with this yet where your sons have gravitated towards something that's more feminine and you've been more encouraging to go the other direction or vice versa. You guys haven't had to deal with that. I tend to encourage things that I want to play with. You know what I'm saying? Only because that's what I like to do. Right. But not because I think that... No, I get what you guys are doing, but so no one's dealt with that yet. So no one's... So even me growing up, I was always trying to crack jokes and do things that were silly and whatnot. And so my best friend was a girl and so we would actually wear wigs and shit and pretend to be characters and stuff and so if my dad saw that, maybe that freaked him out for a minute. Maybe he was like, oh, wow. But to me, it's like... My youngest is very much like me. He'll just goof and so he'll put something on and act and prance around. He's a little bit feminine and whatnot and I think it's hilarious. So to me, it's just harmless.   Now I know some parents that do things like that, right? Of course they do. Where they try and make it so... Like a social experiment. Right, so neutral and they will put... They're making a big deal about it. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's political at that point. It's no different than making a big deal about having to be masculine or having to be feminine. That also is making a big deal. Oh no, everything is super neutral. We don't use... We don't say these are boy toys.  And I mean, at the end of the day, I just don't want to raise weak kids. I just don't want my kids to be weak. I want them to have strong character.  You're still going to respect yourself. You're still going to be promiscuous because you feel like you need to have people's attention.  But these are all lessons that I would instill in my kids regardless of what or who they're attracted to. Really, to me, it doesn't make a big difference and I think we'd have less issues as a result. But what I think is going to happen moving forward, look, we went through the generation where it became kind of cool for girls to show attention to other girls in bars and shit because that kind of started when we were growing up. Before that, girls weren't making out with each other to get attention. Then it started happening. I guarantee it's going to start happening soon. You're going to start seeing guys do this. I guarantee it's going to start being cool for people. And you know what? Whatever. You guys want to kiss each other because you get an attention, that's fine. Like, do your thing. But I guarantee that's going to happen. I feel like he's setting the table to lay one on us, dude. I feel like it's cool now, guys. It's totally normal. It's totally okay. I'm not going to put my tongue in there. I'm not drinking around. I don't know, dude. I feel like you're setting Justin and I up right now. Let me ask you guys a question. Oh, look, this house only has three bedrooms. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you guys a question. Do you think if that was a way for guys to really get female attention and get girls to do that? Do you think you'd see guys doing that shit? Well, that's natural. That's evolution because you're trying to reproduce, right? That's right. So of course, if that was the case. But anyway, my point is like, no, it doesn't matter whatsoever. It's about having strong character. It's about having responsibility. And it's about being, having good integrity. Just don't try and kiss me after them sardines, bro. At least give it to me before that. Before the sardines? I don't like your mustache. Is that any of the whiskers on your feet? Justin would be a way better person. Justin's going to get a good one. I'm going to start growing now. I'm growing a beard. I'm going to make out. No, no, no, no. I don't know, man. You're way more vulnerable. I'm kind of sloppy, dude. You were talking about my golden sheen the other day on my skin. It was making me real uncomfortable. It was pretty, like, magnificent. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. You can check it on Instagram. I had to comment, yeah. So check this out. We also have free guides that we've created. They're very valuable. They talk about ways of training. They talk about nutrition, speeding up metabolism, stuff like that. There's, I don't know, how many guides do we have on our seven or eight? No, we're closer to 12. Are we really? Yeah, yeah. There's flabby arms. There's... Building your legs, your chest, your calves. There's a few other ones. Hit, all kinds of stuff. That's it. So you can find all of these free guides at mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump Sal and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.