It's all the meeting to order. Gosh. If anybody is going to the Springfield airport, there is a little small patch of water that gets icy sometimes. And thing in the morning, we haven't quite got the sand on it. So just walk carefully. I just spent 20 minutes explaining why we can't cut the side walk up right now. But. So first up is public comment. This is coming on anything that is not currently on the agenda. I assume that's you, Robin. It would be me. Hey, thank you. I suspect there might be other people out there as well. But, but I just would like to give the board an update on the, on the library as we have moved forward through the last month. The library service. The board should know that the library service never stopped. But in response to the increase in COVID cases in Orange County in November, we did close the building to the public. And have been super busy with at the door service with pickup service. About 30 books, DVD, laptop, pickups, printing, scanning and faxing jobs a day, which is kind of wonderful. Because that's part of the service that, that we try to provide to the community. And on the creative side of things, the children's librarians have started video recorded, recorded story times in addition to the podcast, which has been hugely successful. And on your agenda at some point is the broom grant, which is up to $100,000 to repair the cupola, which is leaking. And it's a huge opportunity and I understand that we can still apply for that. So we thought that that deadline had passed, but it had not. So, so we're in good shape with that one. And I would welcome any questions from the board about the work that the library has been doing. Any questions. Is somebody else speaking about the broom grant. I think it's in your agenda and you have Amy sent you information, sent the board information or sent it to Adolfo. So. So if you, you have what you need. If we had questions, would we address them to you? Or is she coming in there? Um, yeah, I do not know the answer to that. I am not planning was not planning on hanging around pet. So. I would say if you have questions, you could shoot them directly to me. If you would like, I will check my email and I will. Stop back in if you need. It is relatively straightforward. You know, this is a thing that we have been working on setting up for quite some time. So. Anybody have any other questions for Robin. Okay, so you know, we'll move to approval of the agenda. Thanks, Robin. Hey, yeah. And hearing crickets about the questions, I am happy to leave y'all to get on to the rest of your, the rest of the things that it would appear that you have to talk about. Approval of the agenda. Is there anything. To be added or changed. No, not, not, not, not, not today. Not for this meeting. Motion on approving the agenda. Second. All those in favor, Tom, you're muted. I. I. She carries. Calendar. We have some meeting minutes and warrants. Most of the meeting minutes are the very brief. You know, meeting got started straight into executive session and then immediately back out. And then we'll move on to the agenda. There is one slight. Issue is that I inadvertently added November 8th. When really it should not. Eight should not be included on there. It was really nine, 10, 11 and 12. And just so the public's aware that was for interviews for the town manager. We weren't doing any big. Recruiter in those days. Motion to approve the consent calendar. Okay. All those in favor. Hi. Opposed. Carries new business report from the town auditor for FY 20. We have completed our town audit. Cliff has been working with with our new auditor. This is the first year with with our new auditor and. Cliff, you're muted now. I'm not sure if you'd like to introduce Bonnie. Yeah, our new owner that we hired is Bonnie Batchelder. And she is waiting patiently to speak to us all about the town audit. Bonnie, it's all yours. Okay. Hello, everybody. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to audit town of Randolph. It was. I told Cliff town of Randolph got the number one award for being the toughest audit this year. So not because things were in bad order, but because we had a lot of look back work to do with the prior auditors. But overall your financial status and it is. Excellent. The books are in great shape and Cliff was able to provide all of the information. Patiently to me that I requested because I requested quite a bit. I was able to do that during these times when we're working remotely, but we accomplished it. So that was wonderful. As you, I think you've all got the audit. And just a little brief description of what we do during the audit is that we, the first thing that we do is we assess your internal control. So we get an understanding of the process of the way that you do your internal control. And then we get an idea of how your system works and then we pick a sample to test that. And you guys did excellent. There were really no exceptions to your internal controls and the procedures that you have in place. You have, really good procedures, really strong controls. And it's great to see. So from that perspective, it made the audit really nice to do and to work on. So it's very thorough. The, the town is doing very well with positive fund balances. As you know, you were able to vote. The fund, the unrestricted fund balances in your general fund, in your highway, into funding your reserves this year, which is fantastic. And the governmental wide financial statements netted a million, a little over a million dollars this year, with the largest being in your capital project funds. One note that I would say, is that in your grant funds, your fund balance is showing a deficit. So during the budget process, I would try to project out possibly what the general fund can transfer. Other funds can transfer to bring the grant fund balance, at least to break even. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to have to break even. And it doesn't necessarily need to be on this next fiscal year, but you know, a plan to move it in that direction over the next few years would be great. So, and as you probably all have seen, we did a substantial amount of restating from your prior auditor. And the presentation of the financial statements, we quite, we had quite a few discrepancies, but Cliff was able to work through all of those, restating the fund balances, providing all the backup. So that we got to a great comfort level in restating those. So I feel like your financial statements are in much better presentation that they have been in the past. And they're much more indicative of the way the town is functioning and the finances within each area. So that being said, you've had the financial statements and I don't know if you have some specific questions for me. I don't know if it's Bonnie or for Cliff. What are the transactions that would make a grant fund balance go negative? Wouldn't that just have actual grant funds or are we overspending on grants that's putting us there? A lot of that. Was that training to ask that? That is. Okay. That is due to the, um, the timing difference between the, um, expenditure of funds to repair the damage of last April's storms and the receipt of the money from, um, FEMA and the state. Um, there was, um, that was part of the restatement is that we shouldn't have recognized that revenue. Um, as we spent it, we had to wait until we actually get the money or within 60 days. Um, and so there's about $300,000 outstanding that, that creates that negative fund balance. Um, that is in the process of working its way through the state process of, um, reimbursing us for that money. So it's not that we need to be allocating money in our budget to cover that $300,000 gap. It's just that we need to do to go through the process to get the FEMA reimbursement and show it as a revenue. Um, so that's, um, that's what we're going to do next year that will. Yeah, that, that should happen this year. Um, and in fiscal 21, it's, um, All of the projects for the April 2019 storms have been approved by FEMA now. And they're, like I said, they're, they're in the hands of this, um, in the state and they're working their way through that process. Um, we did get paid for the, um, we did get paid for, um, we did get paid for the damage. Um, so that, that didn't really affect last year, but that, um, Um, is one less thing that we have to chase next year. So I, I have been in contact with the state to, um, Make sure that they're on it and that we're going to get the funds and close that out. Okay. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something we had to come up with money for. It's a receivable that hadn't been received, basically. But, um, I just wanted to make sure that, um, I just wanted to make sure that you're doing that too. You're pretty lovely if we needed to do that. Yeah. There may be a small gap that you want to consider. Um, you know, but once the funds come in from that, you can make that determination and. Cliff can keep an eye on that. Excuse me. Yeah. Thank you. Any other questions on the audit? Not for me. Sounds great. Happy to hear it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great. In the recommendation letter, I have some, uh, recommendations that Cliff and I talked about the entire time we were working on the audit to work for. Towards next fiscal year. Um, and they're certainly attainable and nothing. Um, it just really improving the systems of the town. So, you know, great leaps and bounds were made this year. And, um, you're, you're in a good strong place, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know that maybe we can do a press release so that we don't get negative reviews like we got last year. That was two years ago. I know, but. Press release was last summer. Yeah. I know. From a group that doesn't know what they're talking about, but. Yeah, exactly. Anyway. So, um, Trini, could you ask for any motion to approve the audit report. And accept it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've already read the audit report, so they're comfortable accepting it. Cause I only got through the first couple of pages. It's a sense. It's a suspenseful drama. How could you have put it down? Telling literature. Come on. That's a work of art. You guys. I don't know. It's up for a Pulitzer this year. So. I got the good stuff. I won't claim to have read every word. Has anybody reviewed it enough? Is everybody comfortable accepting it? You want another month to review it? What's the pleasure? I'm comfortable accepting it. Yeah. So am I. But if anybody feels like they want more time, that's fine too. Yeah. I'm good with it. I'm hearing good with it. I haven't heard a motion in a second. We got that out there. Pat, you're muted. Pat, you're muted. Yeah. I'm good either way. So. I'll move that we accept the report then. I'll second that. All those in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you, Bonnie. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. You're welcome. Bye bye. Next up is the beanville road culvert project. Yes, we have been discussing this project for quite some time. We finally have arrived to a point where. He sent out an RFP. We received. Bids that were.  The one bid that staff is looking to. Recommend to a select board is, is a bid submitted by Willie earth moving. We have been speaking with the town's engineer, the group that initially engineered the culvert replacement. They feel very comfortable with. The ongoing conversation that they've had with Willie earth moving about the proposed plan. There are, there is some additional engineering that will be needed because the bid. The bid form that the town submitted or that sent out was saying, you know, bid on the project that our engineers had created, or you could potentially recommend a different project. However, the different project has to be approved by A and R and V trans. And so the project submitted by. Pretty much everyone, including Willie. Was focused on the plans created by the wolf engineering, our engineering firm with a slight variation. And so as we've moved forward in working with Willie earth moving and working with the wolf engineering, our engineering firm. We've reached a point where we shared. Some of the material submitted by. Some of the bidders. And A and R has said, you know, what Willie earth moving is proposing is fine. However, we would need additional engineering so that we are firm on what is going to happen. So we went back to Willie earth moving. We've asked them to perform additional engineering. They have agreed and have come back with. An additional costs. So the proposed amount of 299,000. Has increased, but will only increase by roughly $5,800. Which is the estimate that they, that Willie earth moving received from the boy and King. For performing additional work. To meet the requirements of A and R to meet the requirements of our engineering firm. And so the amount listed in your action item sheet lists the total proposed amount for the project. And it also listed an estimated additional amount for engineering. Which is $10,000, but. We won't reach that additional $10,000 because. The estimate provided by the boy and King is under $6,000. So. If the board was open to it, we'd love to, you know, answer some questions about the proposed project and potential. Road closure given the type of work that needs to happen on the end of the road. You have a question. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Adolfo. What's, what's the difference between the pipe arch proposal and the precast box culvert? It seems like you're recommending that we go with the box culvert. It's more money. So I'm assuming that there's some additional benefit to that type of construction. There is the, the aluminum structure plate is, is essentially a larger metal pipe. The steel arch pipe is about half the life expectancy of the precast box box culvert. The box culvert is just a more heavy duty. It'll last roughly about 100 years. You know, that's kind of the estimate. Whereas the aluminum structure, the plate arch pipe. Is sturdy enough. And it'll last roughly about 50 years. So the idea is. It's preferred to have a larger steel arch pipe. It'll last roughly about 50 years. So the idea is it's preferred to have the precast box culvert because of the heavy trucks that do use that road with the heavy. Loads that they carry to the businesses. And then also just the additional 30,000. Yes. It's 30,000 upfront now, but it'll potentially buy us an additional 50 years worth of life. Of that crossing. Sounds like a good value. Yeah. Thank you. Can you just talk some about traffic flow? A lot of concern out there about closing off the access going south. Given that there is no. Right now we have. Closed off Maple street to trucks.  So it's going to have to be closed off. It's going to have to be closed off. It's going to have to be remain and make that. Turned by the gazebo. So. We had talked some about. Looking, you know. Addressing the need to have a way for them to get.  Without happening all the way to 89. But involving the neighborhood. Yeah. Trini's right. There are some issues to discuss the, the truck traffic had previously been touched on by the select board when. We had proposed a truck route leading to pleasant street and then down to main street. That the intersection of pleasant street and main street by the gazebo. What present a challenge for the larger 18 wheel trucks that. Have been. Have been. Been built. So. Following the conversation that I had earlier this week with the member of the board. I checked in with. Willi earth moving the bid that we'd like to recommend to the board. And their responses that they could. They could complete the work. Within a two week period, but recommend that it would be done in a three week period. It would be a three week period. It would be a three week period. It would be some of the work. So the road would be closed for a period of three weeks. At most. And in that timeframe. It would be challenging for trucks to head down to beanville road. A different option that I had initially proposed. Was potentially print street, but even that. Route would create problems for the larger trucks. So the only real alternative is. I don't consider that an actual alternative. And what is adding a temporary bridge structure to cover the, the span of the, the brook there. I don't consider that an actual alternative to present to the board because V trends has said that. The price can vary and it could be upwards of 160 to $200,000 plus. To add that temporary road. So the cost would. It would be too expensive. So the only real option is the option that. I think I would consider it as a temporary route. And I think that's one of the things that I would consider. I think it's currently dislike in the community of the hospital Hill community, which is to make temporary route. Traveled on maple street. Now before. That would actually happen. One of the things that, you know, Board has shared with me in that I do agree with. We would have to do is to hold public meetings. Well in advance of the start of the project. So. And then we would have to do is to have the design that's a temporary detour trucks only. Any down maple street. Share briefings with them of what the, the potential plan is for repaving maple street, which is something that I know the residents are very interested in. So. These two items can be grouped into one. And essentially create notice to the residents to say. That it's a temporary route. So. That's something that we don't have. And the project has to get done because the, the current structure there has. Pretty much failed. And that the, the detour would only last two to three weeks. We would work with the sheriff's department to make sure that it doesn't go any longer than that. We will listen to the concerns of the residents. But essentially. That is the only rule alternative is. Maple street as, as a truck route during the closure. And the only way to do that is to make sure that it's not a temporary bridge. And so, although as a dog, although as a community, we go through these times when we tolerate a little bit of inconvenience, knowing that it's for the greater good. And to absorb a cost of. It will be more than 200,000 before you get done putting in a temporary bridge, because you got a lot of permitting you'd have to do for a, an R. To disturb the ground and put a bridge in a stream and all that. You know, it just doesn't make sense. You know, I think, I think most of them will understand it. It's not a long-term thing. You know, we're just saying. For two weeks, maybe three. You're going to see the trucks back there. The other positive. Is putting up temporary detour signs for these trucks. To see is an education form too, that this is temporary. It's not their new route. And help some realize, you know, that this isn't. This isn't the new answer, but it does solve the problem of them trying to find another street to turn on to, to not have to go all the way to the interstate and down the Bethel to hit that south path. Because you might find them somewhere else in the neighborhood. You don't want them if we just leave them to their own to get up through there. I agree. You know, and Trini's right, you know, placing the temporary signs make them incredibly obvious.  And then also provides an opportunity to invite New England precision. I think it's a great opportunity to have the opportunity to engage with the businesses on Beameville road to meet with the residents on Maple and Highland. So that it's a more comprehensive approach to the truck issue on those roads that exist beyond the two to three week closure. And just engage in the conversation so we can work towards the bigger solution. Yeah, Trini's right. I think engaging the community, they will accept it. If it's a temporary two to three week closure. Any from anybody that's not on the board. So this is a map for them. And just calling in representing ARA for this one. So I do appreciate the boards and the town managers understanding on those trucks coming in. And the only other thing I wanted to point out is, you know, it's not just leaving here to go south. It's also the trucks that are guided by GPS to get off the Bethel exit and then come into town. So there may want to consider some sort of road closure sign at the end of Beanville with the intersection of 12 on the south side to indicate that the trucks, you know, along, you know, have to come up because that would be the other issue is if there wasn't that alternate route, you know, they'd have to come all the way through town, out of town, turn around and come back to the museum. So, you know, because that's the best thing their GPS is have for him right now. So I do appreciate the consideration. Thanks, Matt. Yeah, absolutely. The plan will, will include, you know, signage on Beanville. It would be, it would be a nightmare for a larger truck to head down Beanville and then not be able to, to continue and have to perform a U turn. But yeah, I neglected to mention the potential signage on, on 12 as they approach Beanville, but that would be the plan. Any other questions or comments on the project? If not, I'd entertain a motion. Nobody's anxious to get rid of this project by getting it out there. Come on guys. I'll move to approve. Back in it. All those in favor. Hi. Post. Stained motion carries. Thank you. The water system project wells and reservoir engineering. A little, a little background on this project. I'm sure everyone is very familiar with it. It's, it's a part of our ongoing conversation with. The agency of natural resources and the department of environmental conservation. It is our continued effort to address their concerns about. Water system issues. One of them is a leak in our North reservoir. And it's not a leak. It's a leak in the presence of the essential mineral needed by our bodies called manganese. But. We recently were told within the last several months that the preliminary engineering report created by our consulting firm. The refrain group had finally been approved by the agency of natural resources and DC. We had to finalize the engineering of a new covert. I'm sorry. A new reservoir. And bringing online to three new wells. So what is left for the refrain group to do is to finalize the engineering portion. So that we are at that point construction ready. In this $99,000 is what is remaining for the different group to complete their work. So we have the construction ready. The $99,000 proposal. Is part of the overall proposed project of 1.9 million, which was in the. Preliminary engineering report. So it's not an addition to it's, it's the inclusive price. That the board had previously been informed of. So. This accepting. A total of $99,000. It's not an additional $99,000 without having to pay it right away. It's being added to our total debt for the project. On the state level. And then once the project is completed, the total debt is essentially put on the town and then we start paying for it. But this 99,000 is in something that we have to find immediately to pay for. It is just. Accumulating debt on our state. We're going to be applying for another $500,000 grant. Do we have a good sense that that's going to come through? It sounded like sort of. You're making it sound like this is a pretty. A good bet that we're going to get that. I was trying to temper my expectations or even the expectations that it is trying to convey to the board. As it had been presented to us by an hour when we first started this conversation, you know, it was a rosy picture. Yes, we'll get you everything and we'll help you with everything else. The challenge is with this additional $500,000 grant is that it is based on criteria and a score that is kept by. A different agency, not a community development block grant program. So the type of funding that we will seek is. For the most part need based. And one of the reasons why we couldn't have, we didn't submit an application. Well, let me start over. We did submit an application. During the most recent funding cycle. So this, there's a state board. They meet the review applications and then they determine whether or not an application is funded. We submitted an application. We were told that our application was incomplete. We did not have an income survey, a recent income survey completed. We are in the process of finalizing an income survey. And the reason why our application was rejected is because the aid is need based. You can't determine need unless we have the income survey. We do feel that the makeup of our community will meet the threshold of need based. And that's the reason why we didn't submit an application. But. The last time an income survey was performed was roughly about 10 years ago. And our population and income has likely shifted since then. And then the income survey is also dependent on. The people that reply to the survey. And, you know, if we have the most wealthy people reply to the survey, if you make this amount of money, don't fill it out. So, you know, it would, it would taint the sample survey or the survey sample. So we're beholden to, you know, whoever submits the survey and we're beholden to the result of the survey, but we hope that we will meet the criteria to receive that additional $500,000 grant. I see. And do we, do we have a sense of. Do we need to borrow a million dollars with the sort of average effect that'll be on homeowners in the, in the water district. Not yet. That is something that Cliff and I have discussed that we would have to see what the rates will, you know, we will undoubtedly have to, well, we will have to first figure out what the amount is that we will borrow or recommend to the select board that we borrow, whether it be one and a half million dollars or whether it be a million dollars because that, that also will play into the calculation. Sure. We haven't actually determined yet what the rate would be at a million dollars, but paying back that million dollars would roughly be somewhere within the, the annual rate of Cliff, would you say $50,000 somewhere around there? Roughly approximately. That's a hard figure Larry, roughly about 50 to $60,000 is what our annual payment would be. Now that doesn't mean that the bond bank, you know, couldn't also work with us for providing us, they no longer do negative interest loans, they have different programs that are also need based. So we could work with the bond bank to seek one of these need based bonds, which would reduce our payment amount. So I'll answer your question directly. No, we don't yet know what the rate will, what this new loan money would cause in terms of rate change. Okay. Adolfo, what's our daily water usage and with these wells online and the pinnacle wells, what would the production be? I don't know the total number off the top of my head, but I can share with you that our proposal to the DEC and ANR is that we have to keep Pearl Street well. ANR and DEC initially had said to the town that if we took the Pearl Street well offline and brought the three new wells online, that the town would meet its daily maximum load needs. Throughout the court case that we, you know, round of court issues that we had with DEC and following the court's decision, DEC amended its numbers and essentially said that the town would not meet its daily load limit if it only had the three wells and the pinnacle wells and the reservoirs online, which was fine with us because our proposal the whole time was we're bringing the three new wells online and also keeping Pearl Street. So to answer your question, Pat, I don't know the total gallon amount that we would need to meet daily, but I do know that the three wells, the Pearl Street well and the pinnacle wells would meet our daily load entirely and then some. But those wells, if I understand correctly, DELPO would not meet the demand if we had another large fire and needed a water source. That's when we would need Pearl Street. Correct. That's right. Yep. And that's the purpose is to keep Pearl Street because for fire suppression for, you know, in case to add more to that, the south wells are weather dependent. We were fortunate enough that in the dry spell this year, we actually didn't have a shortage in water in the pinnacle wells. Other states did, you know, they were reporting in the Herald about New Hampshire that had to limit the amount of water that it was making available. But if the conditions are right, or in this case, if they were wrong, the pinnacle wells are weather dependent and Trini's correct that if we did not keep the Pearl Street well active, that we may not be able to meet our fire suppression and water production needs. Also, remember that conversation? It was that spike non-occasions that happens when you have a fire. So the Pearl Street well, if I remember correctly, wouldn't be pumping as it would be pumping very minimal once those other three wells were online. That's right. Yeah, it would be, we could not keep it as a backup where we shut it off and then turn it on, but we can't put it on a pump system where the pump wouldn't turn on unless certain gallon needs were not being met. And in that case, the Pearl Street well pump would turn on to meet our daily needs. So it wouldn't be a primary pump for a primary well, but it would be a well that was on in case we needed additional. If I remember correctly, it was on a very limited amount of time per day. So it would stay active, but not be the primary source right now as it is. That's right. Is the state comfortable? Will they accept that? They have accepted it, yes. Yeah, it was part of our preliminary engineering report. In addition to the preliminary engineering report that had been created two and a half years ago almost now, DEC had asked us for clarification. They had questions essentially on the preliminary engineering report and we stressed to them that Pearl Street would remain online. Not necessarily the primary water source, but would remain online and contribute to the water system when needed. And that is what caused DEC to say that, yes, they agree that we would meet our, at the very least our daily gallon needs if we kept the Pearl Street well online. Adolfo, is the primary cost of this work, the reservoir replacement? So we roughly have, but to this point of the 1.9, it's a combination of things up until this point we have spent already roughly about $220,000 on the preliminary engineering report on the initial scoping of the three wells. The wells are not yet fully brought online and they won't be until construction starts. But of the 1.9 million, roughly about 220, well now it would be 320,000, would be just for the engineering and the well explorations and the testing. The remaining roughly about 1.6 million would be for a 750,000 gallon reservoir and the bringing the wells online and the sampling taps for the three new wells before they enter the reservoir. So it's for a number of different things. Have the new wells been pump tested yet? Officially pump tested or just drillers testing? We've had drillers testing. We've also had material testing. So, you know, to test water quality. I don't have the results in front of me, but the results from what I can recall from memory was that they do meet the potable drinking requirements. However, we would have to, like with all of our wells, we would have to have a testing site on side and some possible filtration as the well water exits the well and it could be a small little building next to each one of the wells. So the water does meet drinking requirements so long as we also have additional filtration or additional systems at the immediate exit of the wells. So essentially the water that was pumped out and tested met A&R and DC's requirements so long as we do one or two other things before the water is immediately introduced into the water system. But it sounds like they haven't been pump tested for production yet? They've been pump tested for production. So we do know that the three wells combined would produce just under 100 gallons per minute of water. And just to give you some example or little contrast between those three wells, I believe the exact number is roughly 92 to 95 gallons per minute of those three wells combined. And the Pearl Street well produces roughly about 240 gallons per minute. So the Pearl Street well alone doubles the capacity of water per minute of those three wells combined. So we do know that the three wells do and by the North reservoir. Great. Any other questions on this? Questions from the public. Anybody want to make a motion? I'll move to authorize the town to add an additional 99,000 to its existing state revolving long fund. Long balance. I'll second that. All those in favor. Motion carries. Thanks everyone. Business requests. Commerce and trade statute. We had one of our local businesses. One of our local business here in the village. Stop by and make a request. Or initially stopped by to inquire on the possibility of being. Classified as a pawn broker. And during that visit there. The business owner had presented us with. State statute nine VSA subsection three eight six two. That dictates the process for establishing a pawn broker. The resident had essentially indicated that financial institutions. Are being may be or potentially are being treated differently by the closures of related to COVID. And so the business owner was seeking pawn broker status so that the person's business wouldn't directly be affected. By any COVID closures. The town. This would this from from what I have, you know, looked into and spoken with staff would be the first time we've. Had to deal with a request. Establish a pawn broker or pawn shop in town. So we do not have a process. For. You know, to present to residents for establishing a pawn shop. So we brought this issue to the select board because the state statute says that a select board may grant. A business the ability to be classified as a as a pawn broker. So long as the business owner presents proof of. You know, being deemed proper and produce satisfactory evidence of their good character. You know, a lot of that is very subjective. So I'm not. It's very old language, I can assume. So Duffa, what have we seen about the change in the business model they want to make that would make it actually a pawn broker versus just getting a permit to avoid being closed down for COVID. No change that has been produced to the town. The business itself. I think that's a good point. After having spoken with the business owner. You know, they claimed that much of their work is directly related to jewelry. They do a lot of jewelry sales online. Although they do have a storefront. What had been reported to us was that their primary source of sales is, is online. And they do maintain a business or a brick and mortar location and it's a good business practice from their perspective. But nothing has been shared with the town or at least with, with me prior to this meeting that we'll say that they are changing their business model to fit a more. Financial business model that would allow them to. Fit the requirement of a pawn broker. So wouldn't it be the due diligence of the town to make sure that. That was what we were permitting. When we do a regular permit for any other business, we look at what activities are going to take place there. And then we slot them into one of the categories. Right. Yeah. We decide if it's allowed or conditional or whatever. So it seems like in this case, we would be looking at what is changing. We would be looking at that business that's requiring the select board to consider this. Trini, you're right. And what one of the. One of the reasons for not having additional information to share today is because, you know, to be frank, the town just has not had this issue before and does not even have a process for determining pawn broker status. We just, we just don't, we don't even have an application that would have a business to complete that says I want to have pawn broker status. So one of my, my hopes and my goals was to ask the board to direct staff to potentially. Ask staff or direct staff to create a process that includes an application that would address Trini that the concerns that you are raising now so that staff can say, okay, you know, the application process requires the business owner to submit information that will allow us to determine that they're changing the business model to meet pawn broker status or at the very least give us more to go on other than just state statute. Select board can can approve this. I just have to prove that I'm a citizen with, you know, of good nature. So if it's helpful, you know, we have a staff that already had the information that we have that the customer didn't take a position at the moment. If it would just direct me and staff to research the process for creating a, a pawn broker process, we could do that. I'm a little concerned though that we have the request already. And then we're going to create a process by which we ask them to go through. So I'm going to go out on a limb here. And in all my little boxes, I have one that says galaxy as nine plus that removed their mute. somebody that's involved in this? Yes, I'm the store owner. My name's Luke Ward. So Luke, can you just explain to us what change you're making in your business model that you want this classification for? Yeah, so it's two-fold. The first part was just to be able to, a palm broker is classified as a financial institution and so has exemptions from lockdowns at the state level because it's federally considered a financial institution. And the second part is it allows me to offer to customers that aren't open to, because I'm already licensed to buy jewelry and being a palm broker would allow an option to customers who need cash at the moment but don't want to part permanently with their jewelry. It's just one more way for me to make a profit. But if you read the statute, it's not, I'm limited to a 3% interest rate so it's not crazy. So you're not looking to do where we can go take the neighbor's tools and come pawn them off to get money type thing. You're looking at only jewelry? Only jewelry, coins, because that's just, that's my business. I have no interest in being what you would typically think of as a pawn shop. So looking at the statute, it doesn't require a town to have a process and it doesn't disallow the town from putting restrictions on this type of request. So I do believe we need a process and we probably ought to have the planning commission look at this and what it takes and come out with something that kind of goes in with the zoning and whatnot. But I believe the request here before us tonight is only to allow them to have a pawn shop for jewelry, well, coins I guess, but doing exactly what they're doing now. They just, you can walk in and sell them a piece of jewelry that they hold. If I understand correctly, you hold it for a certain amount of time. If you don't come back to get it, I can sell it and... Right, and so if you look at the statute, I'm required to hold an item for six months before I can even consider selling it to recoup interest and principal loaned on the item. And I'm also only allowed to sell the item. Like I'm not allowed to profit from excess. So, if I loaned you $100 and then after six months you owe me $118, I'm only allowed to collect $118. So if I sell the item first, let's say 120, then I owe you a $2 difference. I'm not allowed to profit up above and beyond the principal and the interest. So the request before the select board tonight on this specific case is just to allow you to provide that service to people only with jewelry and coins. Exactly, I'm already licensed to buy it outright and this just is a way for people who don't wanna sell something outright, but they need a little cash to get them through whatever they're going through with all this COVID stuff going on. Does anybody on the board have concerns or questions with that? Yeah, I have a question. So conceivably, tell me if this is wrong, this could be a really tiny portion of your business but if we were under some sort of a otherwise existing closure order from the governor, you'd be able to stay open with your regular business even though other businesses who didn't have this special exemption would be closed. So it's my understanding that I would have to close retail services, there wouldn't be able to sell anything. I would only be able to offer the pawn services. Okay.  Exactly. Well, that would address my concern of having sort of a non-level playing field where you would be providing a service that would otherwise be restricted, but it sounds like that's not the case. Yeah, I'm not looking to take advantage, if you will, and allow me to stay open for full service as a leg up against other businesses or anything. I've got bills as well, so it just allows me to be able to pay my bills by providing a service to other people who also need to pay bills. Specifically, the zoning regulations do not address businesses specifically to the type of business. We actually listed businesses in that area as commercial group services, community services, those kind of things. So we don't really have a, we tried to get away from that in the planning commission where we were specifically targeting certain businesses like we got away from gas stations. So we don't specifically say gas stations anymore. So some of those things were addressed in that. I don't think this is a problem and I think it certainly fits in the district. And you like that? I have a question. Luke, you said you could only charge 3%. Is that what I understood? 3% per month on the principal loan are my limitations according to the statute. So 36% a year? Yes. So any other questions about the type of activity that he's asking to do? I think some of this is dictated by statute. Any concerns? Anybody want to make a motion to approve it and to direct the planning commission to look at coming up with a process? I'm curious what you think the process needs to be. I mean, it seems to me, this falls under like retail services which is approved for that district. I think it sounded to me like the statute said the select board had to approve it. So I think the process is just that it gets approval from the DRB, right? As a user goes through the application. Yeah, but we don't, that's the problem is the current regulations don't address pawn shops specifically or pawnbrokers. It's basically, I'm just looking at it right now. I'm just trying to figure out, it seems to me it fits into this indoor retail category maybe or maybe we need to expand it to say that, but we tried to be non-specific about businesses, the type of business other than to loop them. Like, we have light industrial where there's a lot of things that fit in light industrial. There's office low volume, outdoor commercial, outdoor recreation, repair services. Those are the kinds of things. And so it seems to me that this is kind of a retail service that's a little different than a bank. And so maybe the result from the planning commission is just we feel like this is a retail service and fits underneath that alone. Yeah, certainly could be looked at that. And that's maybe the way to handle it, I guess. Just kind of maybe compare what we do currently with our zoning, does this cover it actually? And it didn't need to come here to begin with or does the statute actually require for this specific use some type of select board activity? Yeah, I don't know whether maybe it's a license from the select board, but I don't think it's a zoning issue. I don't think it's zoning, but I think that's the only thing that fits under what we do. Yeah, maybe it's no different than you require, a sidewalk vendor has to get a license for doing what they do if they're pushing a cart around. Oh, hot dogs. Yeah, the hot dog cart, right. I miss those. Maybe next year, Delphine. Oh man. Perry, do our regulations differentiate between retail and financial?  Banks or retail, Pat? Yeah, banks or retail. I mean, we had examples of indoor retails which were video stores, consignment stores, retail shops, bakeries, general stores, grocery stores, pharmacies, et cetera. We didn't really, like I said, those are just examples. We didn't specifically target, like I said, we didn't say gas stations. We used to have that in our zoning, but we got away from it all. You could also argue that this is just an extension of existing jewelry store retail operation too. I mean, it's not like it's a separate, an entirely separate entity, right? So. I'm not hearing a motion there yet. I'll make a motion that we approve this. Is it for referral to the planning commission? That's what's not clear to me though. Oh, no, we're looking to approve this tonight for this application and then refer the issue to the planning commission if we were supposed to be doing something more different. Okay. So just to note, the statute, this approval would only be for one year. So, you know, if this goes badly or whatever in a year's time, if you've come up with a better application process or whatever, then it can be completely revisited at that point. I mean, it seems to me like it's a lot like a liquor license. You know, we review those annually. Maybe we create a policy where we're reviewing these annually and, you know, as long as there's no issues, continue on. Thank you, Gary. Yeah, good idea, Perry. So I heard approval. Did I hear a second? I'll second it. I have another question. Yep. Does that mean you have to come back every year, Luke, for? So every year I would have to put this before the select board for re-approval. Only if he wants to re-approve that. Yes. That makes me feel better. Yeah. Great, I have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Post motion carries. I think you're good, Luke. I appreciate it. Nice. Thanks for changing your name. No longer. I did that. Sorry. Hish Hill Road pavement condition. Earlier this year, I believe it was a member of the select board had received a petition that had been signed by a number of different people, some who live on Hish Hill Road. I have not actually had the opportunity to work with the clerk to see if the residents on the list are actual residents of Randolph. However, there were several names that were on this petition. And the petition was that the town addressed the condition of Hish Hill Road. And working with the highway department and speaking with Highway Superintendent, we don't disagree that Hish Hill Road is in need of repair. There are the roads that are also in need of repair. But we wanted to present this because the select board wanted to see the petition. They wanted to see what the estimates are of repairing Hish Hill Road. So we put it at the request of the select board, put it on the agenda. What I would like the select board to consider, instead of considering this one issue that is being brought to the board because of a petition, would be to instead consider directing the town manager and his team to create a paving plan that could potentially include Hish Hill Road at the top of the list, which would then allow us to then create a more comprehensive plan to focus on roads that need the greatest attention, including Hish Hill Road. And the reason I suggest that is my hope is that the board does not establish precedence that says, if enough residents complete a petition, then the board will consider their request and potentially vote on their request. Instead, directing staff to create a comprehensive paving plan and placing Hish Hill Road at the top of the list would be very different than approving this specific petition. Well, I go slightly further and say that Hish Hill Road project would be at the top of the list if the conditions merit that you are right, that having a group of citizens put together a petition for a paving project is not a good way to prioritize our road maintenance. We need to do what we can afford. And attend to roads as they're needed in a way that makes sense. So I think that we put them on the list in the manner in which the road presents itself. So I think, Larry, you're on the right path, but I would go one further. We have a capital budget committee. And their job is to work with the town manager and the different folks to look at all our capital needs in the town and prioritize where our money should be spent. And we're not using that committee the way it's intended to be used. So I would take that petition and I would ship it to that committee with some direction to the town staff to work with that committee to get some criteria by which we prioritize these projects. So we have a list of queued projects in priority order of where we should be looking at investing money. Yeah, absolutely. And the response to a petition should be, well, you're on our list. It's going to happen on this date. And here are the projects that are before it. And here's why. I completely agree. It should be, here's your project. It's on the list. And this is how it scores. I don't know that we'll have a date for them, but we can tell them where they rank in the ideal world. Right? And as money comes up, we'll start clicking these babies off. But I think in looking at the estimate, I'm a little skeptical because what we're talking about is skim-coating some horrendous pavement. And so you skim-coat horrendous pavement, it just creates more horrendous pavement. You either got to grind it down and relay it, or you're just going to basically ruin, but anything that goes down is going to be ruined by the end of winter of the following season. So you might get six, eight months from a skim-coat on that road. Yeah, and Trini's right. And yeah, I would agree with the board and the recommendation of directing this of the capital committee and working with the capital committee. I think the current plan or the current schedule kept by the capital committee is insufficient. And it's not necessarily their fault. It's definitely partially my fault, a fault of my predecessor, and not utilizing the committee as best as we can. And it would be a process where we would direct this committee to meet more regularly, and not just two or three times a year at the end of the year, but to have them meet regularly so that they can review, just like the budget committee does, review things on a monthly basis or as needed, or even create a scenario where the capital committee and the budget committee, because their work is germane to one another, in some ways could potentially meet at the same time or around the same time so that it's more of a budget and capital plan committee. But yes, I do agree with the recommendations of the select board and can absolutely work with the committee to have them review this plan and a more detailed paving plan for the future. Who's our liaison to the capital budget committee? I believe it was Pat. Harry, I was on mute. I was trying to confess that I was the liaison, but I was on mute. That's me, yes. So Pat, can you get with that committee and see if they can maybe reach out to some other municipalities and try to figure out a way of prioritizing projects across all the town infrastructure? I think this is a big issue that coincides with the petition we got. The budget committee and the capital planning committee have been talking about how they don't already have a capital plan that prioritizes things. And do we have the expertise to do that or not? So I think this points out that we don't, as far as I know, we don't have what we need at this point. I'm not sure the capital budgeting committee feels like they have the expertise to do that on their own. I'm happy to discuss it with them. I would like to thank people for submitting the petition and letting us know the condition of that road because I didn't know it until after I heard about the petition and drove up there. And it definitely needs work. So I think that was good that they brought it to the town's attention. I agree that we need to have a good capital plan that we can be carrying forward so we can tell people we need money to do these items. I don't know as we have that at this point. It brings up a bigger issue, I think, which is, well, Pat just alluded to the fact that the capital planning committee doesn't necessarily have the skills to create an infrastructure priority list. And this is a group of volunteers. And we might find people on that committee who are very skilled and we might find over time that there are people on that committee who are less skilled and are more or less able to do the kind of work that we would like them to be able to do. But considering the importance of this work, it really seems as though this sort of an initiative really ought to be led by town staff. And if they can get additional help from the capital budget committee just to make that work go faster or with more public input, I think that's great. But I think if we're waiting for the capital budget committee to do stuff that we're heading down a bad path. I would agree with that, Larry. I think if you have the town staff provide a review of the conditions of the roads, and that's what's passed off to the Capital Planning Commission, their committee to figure out how to get those roads addressed, that would be the correct way to move forward it. But for those of you who haven't driven around all these roads, I can tell you that that's one of a few that are in dire need of attention. So there's more out there along the same conditions of Fish Hill. The Regional Planning Commission should be able to provide some formats by which you can prioritize capital projects. And there is multiple ways to do it. And the discussion then becomes about point assessment and whatnot. Your capital plan should not only be roads. We have fire equipment we need. We have buildings that need work. We have all kinds of things. So it's putting points to different factors on these assets that take all of them and put them into a rank. And I do believe you have some people on that capital budget committee that have wanted to be digging into this for years and have not been allowed to do it. And I think we need to take the conversation back to that committee, who some of them have years of experience of being on that committee back when it was productive and did this work to when it got kind of cut off. And I believe the conversation needs to go back to that committee to talk about what that looks like and involve them in working with the Regional Planning Commission or others that can give you models to work with to come out where those folks have a real role in deciding what the priority of our capital investment is in this town. I think you're accurate in that regard, Trini. And if I'm not mistaken, don't we reappoint the committee each year in the wake of town meeting? Isn't this one of the committees that will be restructured annually? Or were you appointed annually? Yes, we do. And if that's the case, maybe this time, this year, is the time to really be looking at what the criteria are for the volunteers serving on that committee so that we have a committee that is really up to snuff, if you will, on the challenges before it. So maybe we can look at that in March or April when the time comes and really hone in on what the real mission and purpose of this committee is. And you've got members now that really want to dig into this and feeling like they just really aren't able to play the role they want to play here. So it's the perfect time to make this change and to get this priority model in place and to work with these folks because they've given a lot of time and feel like it's lip service at this point and would like to dig into actually helping figure out what we should be doing. And to Larry's point, I mean, clearly the town administration from the manager right on through all of the department heads need to play a critical consulting role with the committee because they're the repositories of the real knowledge of what needs to be done in terms of roads, in terms of building maintenance, in terms of capital purchases, sapphire equipment. This isn't something that we can expect volunteers to be knowledgeable about in a vacuum, I guess. Best way to put it. And usually your town staff is the one that collects all the data that goes into a private model, presents that model to that committee who looks at it and says, well, I'm not sure. I think he gave us too many points or whatever. And then look at it. And maybe there's more money in the highway budget for projects than there is in the facilities budget. So that's when the decision is made to jump a project ahead of another one. It should be in that committee. And these are the list of projects we'd like to present to the select board this year for funding. And this is why. Could I say something, Trini? Sure. Actually, we have Tim Angel on from the Capital Budget Committee. Back when Jim Hutchinson was on the board of select board, he kind of headed the Capital Budget Committee. And every year we would come up with a list of all these projects and there would be cost estimates. And we would prioritize them. And we even used to meet with department heads and they would say, well, this is what we would like to get done over the next few years. And this is what it would cost. And we would prioritize them. But since Jim got done, really all we've done is the town manager has come in and said, this is what my plan is. And we're going to go ahead and do approve it. And we really have not had any, we really haven't amounted to anything in the last few years. We were just approved whatever the town manager came up with. But if I understand correctly, Tim, that committee would like to dig into figuring out how to prioritize these and go back to developing that list of projects. Correct. That would be great. I would love to see that. Right. And then we're going to move on to some of the other things. Like the public have input. It's a long range planning like this. Absolutely. I have a related question. Who would have, do we have anybody on staff that would have the knowledge to know what needs to be done to a road. Engineering wise. We have staff that have worked on these projects for many years, but in terms of the engineering itself, we do not. However, the staff that we do have have served in their current role or in a similar role elsewhere for many years and do have the contacts or the knowledge of being able to reach out to either folks who can provide estimates or folks who can tell us what we would need for certain types of repairs. So even if our staff is not able to provide the expertise immediately, they would be able to find somebody that would be able to provide that expertise. Well, my concern is like Trini is talking about Fish Hill that a skim coat wouldn't last that long, which it probably wouldn't. But do you need an engineer to tell you, okay, we need to do drainage and we need to do base and so forth? We would. I mean, that would be a part of the RFP process. You know, it would be more of ditching on the sides, the town, for example, on Windover when we paid over Windover or even Furnace Street. As part of that process was we had to send out an RFP to say this is what we want the company to do. And in order to meet the state, you know, the VTrans road standards, we would have to do other things like ditching on the side for proper water runoff and the town would typically do some of the in kind work for the roadside ditching as part of the project. But, you know, we would rely on VTrans requirements for what would need to be done on a road and then also incorporate those into a project for paving and have it all done at the same time. So Pat, usually you don't prioritize projects with a dollar value. So if you said fish hill needed to be fish, the condition of fish hills repair was a priority, then you dig into what does that look like. And then you can come out with a scope which could include ditches and whatnot. And then we start looking at funding sources so is there a storm water grant that could help pay for the ditching and culvert replacement section and is there a town highway grant that could help pay for some of the pavement side and whatever. So a priority model should take each of your concern areas and run it through the manner and, you know, whatever you come up with for points and whatever, and then rank them. And then you look at it and say okay in this project we have these, this is how we fund it. And then, you know, once you kind of figure all that out is that it moves into the budget. And then you rank them might depend on whether it's going to cost 60,000 for a skim coat or 300,000 for more extensive work. I would think you'd have two separate projects. You'd have a skim coat project and then you'd have a complete overhaul project. I would say the two against each other, which the capital budget committee should be doing to say, do we, you know, do we throw 60,000 at it for a nine month solution or do we throw 300,000 and look for grant funding to help us get a real solution that will last 10 years. I, I favor the capital budget committee doing that if they want to and if we have the expertise in the town to do that. Is that a motion. I think they should work with the budget committee too. I think those, those two groups should maybe be working closely on those sort of things. I've gotten through this whole discussion. And I'm getting the impression that we're not going to approve sending the town to skim coat fish hill. It sounds like to me the direction coming out of this is more to the petition from fish hill to the budget committee and ask for town staff support to create a recommendation coming back to the slick word on a prioritization of capital projects. That's to the capital committee night, right? Not the budget committee. Yes. Capital budget committee. Yeah, I will make that very motion if you'd like. Thank you. Thank you. Motion and a second. All those in favor. Opposed. Abstained. Larry, we've got you on mute. So I'm not sure what your vote is on that one. Maybe he stepped away. So I think. 401. Next step is town meeting 2021. Well, this is this was going to be fun to talk about because I'm not sure exactly what will be allowed by the state legislature. At the moment, the state legislature is considering one of their first bills to, you know, allow municipalities to or allow select boards to vote to postpone town meeting. Unfortunately, because we are in a Dylan rules state. So we have to allow select boards and city councils in the state can't vote to change certain certain voting issues. So we have to wait for the legislature to meet again and, you know, in the first meet in January. There is one potential option so that we've had ongoing conversations here with staff about how we could plan for town meeting 2021. I think it may depend on what the legislature decides or we can just move ahead and create a different path here in Randolph. And speaking with with Joyce our clerk earlier today. One of the options that was thrown out that I'd mentioned to her that we could potentially consider that the board could potentially consider is scheduling a special town meeting. And this is just, you know, an option that Joyce and I had probably thought about earlier today or thought about earlier today is to potentially schedule a special town meeting to be held in the parking lot right you know here in front of town hall so that anyone can can show up and can stand around and the only topic for that meeting would be to discuss town meeting 2021 on whether the voters wanted to postpone town meeting 2021 to a different day or they wanted to cancel town meeting 2021 and have everything be on Australian ballot just for this year alone, because we don't know what the restrictions will be for town meeting we don't know what they are now we don't know what they will be in January. We don't know what they will be in February. And that's when Randolph sound meeting would be able to be the Saturday the last Saturday in February. So it's, it's pretty, it's rapidly approaching I don't believe that the legislature would give us so much leeway that, you know, it'll help us here because town meeting is at the end of February. So we already have authority to vote to go to Australian ballot. Yes, we do under Act 162, which was passed at the very conclusion of the last legislative session. I have to reread that I believe our clerk had mentioned that that ended this calendar year, I'd have to double check. That's not I happen to know a fair amount about this issue because I explored it on behalf of the newspaper I'm reporting for with a number of communities in the upper valley, which I can think of Heartland Hartford Bridgewater and Reading have all voted to go to Australian ballot for for town meeting the other thing that Act 162 addresses is the petition process. And it grants, it grants towns, it waves the petition process for candidacies for public office, much as was done in August and November of this past year, but it does not wave that for petitions for, you know, nonprofit organizations and community entity entities seeking funding from the town, but it definitely gives us permission to move to an all Australian ballot format for this year only and it's only for this coming year. It's, it's only for 2021. What it doesn't do is I understand is allow you to put off town meeting for several months which that may be an option but isn't at this point right. Yeah, that sounds right. I'm trying to pull up the actual document from my files here but I'm not finding it. It's a pretty it's literally it's a one page act and it just addresses the the petition process and it addresses the Australian ballot. Larry, what's in the bill that you brought up that's coming at the beginning of the session. Let me go look. I think it's, I'm not going to find it that quickly. My understanding is that it's going to allow us what Pat what Pat was just saying it would allow us to postpone town meeting. I think Tom is also correct that we already have the authority to create to make the town meeting all Australian ballot. And it was gosh there was one other piece of this and it's escaping me right now. I think I really think it makes it makes sense though for us to just follow the lead of some of these other towns and go to all Australian ballot for just this one year seems to be the simplest, most straightforward. People are already used to the idea that, you know, where we can do mail in ballots and, you know, given our town meeting is almost, you know, there's not that much really that goes on that that's not already on Australian ballots it's not a huge change for us. Much bigger, much bigger issue in towns like Stratford where they have a, you know, a day long town meeting where they go over the budget, the school budget and all sorts of things in detail and decide stuff that way on. We're not going to notice a big difference if we just do that so I feel comfortable with us just making that decision tonight. I think the league is having a training I think on this next week. People should have got something today. Yeah, I think I saw something in my email today about that very topic. I'm signed up for that I don't know if anybody else will want to. Let me just read real quickly this is the lead to the article that I wrote two weeks ago, responding to the COVID concerns about COVID-19 and its social distancing requirements the Vermont Legislature passed one act, act 162 late in its last session. The temporary law allows municipalities that normally vote from the floor until meeting today to instead use the Australian ballot for the annual or special town meetings throughout 2021. Under current law only a vote of municipalities, voters may allow to the switch to Australian ballot system but this act 162 gives that temporary decision making power to municipal governing bodies such as select boards. So, you know, it's pretty clear that we can do this. With regard to doing with regard to doing it virtually, and also with regard to anything that may be on the warned agenda for town meeting, we would be responsible for, and this might be something that the legislature is going to weigh in on early in its new session we would be responsible for being certain that there was a pre town informational session on all of the things that are going to be on the Australian ballot. So that people have an opportunity to be fully informed about what the issues are. One of the good things Tom is that we, yes, we do have those informational meetings and I think we have, you know, I'll say this in jest but it's actually a fact I think we have more folks on this meeting now than actually show up to the informational meetings at least over the last three years. Yeah, although it might be different this year Adolfo because in a sense, the informational meeting is going to be the only place where the public at large can learn more about the Australian. In other words, I won't have the opportunity to discuss them. Right on town meeting day as robustly as we might normally have, but And that is true and it would be easier to attend an informational meeting if, if residents can log in from home or at a different location instead of coming to town hall or meeting location like we've had to do in the past. And it's a little bit of a tangential issue but it's one we need to deal with. And Joyce has already reached out to us about this. The question of putting petitions for public funding, if you will, typically on the town meeting warning. In order for that to be that that waving that to happen this year, we would have to act as a select board to waive that requirement. Whereas the candidacies has already been waived by Act 162. And I believe Joyce's recommendation was that we not waive that requirement because we would be opening a Pandora's box of getting potentially dozens if not hundreds of petitions. You know, so that's another issue we're going to have to grapple with. Maybe there's not a lot of conversation about the issues that we hold the public meeting about the night before the day, you know, within a day or two of town meeting. It's, I have no problem to go going to fall Australian ballot. And I think we got to make sure we pick up the day. A lot of what the most important boat on the floor, I believe it to the town is the dates by which to do the tax payments and whatnot. So we just, if we go to full Australian ballot, we got to be careful that we pick up all the right items on that Australian ballot to get us through. Otherwise I believe it's just a lot of initiatives that come from the community and I'm not sure how, because we have addressed signatures for ballots for nonprofits that want money from us and those type of things and you know candidates have that process already but I don't know that there's a process by which all these initiatives that get introduced from the floor during town meeting have a way to get to an Australian ballot process. And maybe you know sorry the pandemics here you get to skip a year but I don't know what the answer is to that I believe that's part of what the legislature is going to have to grapple with at the beginning of the session. And that is each community has their own little quirky items that come up and you know, I don't know. I'm up. I'm completely fine with going all Australian ballot I don't know that we need a parking lot meeting, or any of that to do it. No because we've been given the, we've been given the mandate by the state to allow us to do that without that emotion Tom. I think I think before before I make the motion I just I want to throw out a couple ideas and say that I, I did find that. What what the current bill that's going to show up in the, in the legislature at the beginning what it talks about and it has three items. One is that it allows the municipalities to move the date of annual town meeting just for this year. It allows the municipalities to mail Australian ballots for use in this year's this coming annual meeting. That was going to be. And the third thing is that it just talks about how the Secretary of State is to permit supplemental elections procedures protect the health safety of voters elections workers and candidates so the stuff that really affects us is whether we want to move the date. And if we want to mail in ballots. If we want to do that. Yeah, the only other thing I want to say before, since I'm already talking is just, I had an idea because treatment I think you're, you're concerned about initiatives coming from the floor being able to be able to come up during town meeting I think is really important and I wonder if we go to Australian ballot and do our normal, you know, voting what when we would normally do it. But I wonder if it would make sense to also set up a new date for town meetings that we specifically could have a place where people could get together and talk about those things because those would not be set time sensitive. And we could make that town meeting date, you know, in May or in June when we knew we could have it outside but all the other things which are important to decide before them all the budget stuff which really has to be done the more timely manner we can have it all settled by Australian ballot. I think that makes a lot of sense Larry and and if you look at Act 162 the language specifically refers to town meetings or special town meetings. So if you're going to treat that second meeting that you're suggesting as a special town meeting keeping the regular town meeting date on the first Tuesday in March as it customarily is or on the Saturday as we've done last year. There's anything that prevents us from holding a town meeting at a later date, if we ever get to a spot where they'll let us do it. So I don't know, you know, we could set a date in March, and we could set a date in May or June and we may find that we're not allowed to do it anymore so I guess I believe what we need to do right now is decide if we're going to go by Australian ballot on our items and I think one of the key areas is this going to be COVID related and are we going to be able to get reimbursement from the state through the COVID funds for the cost of mailing out all these ballots like we did during the election. It's going to be something you can work on as that bill is going through that that elected to go totally but, you know, to mail out their ballots, it's reimbursable. But, you know, I think tonight the cut the to keep this agenda moving because there's still a lot on it. What we're going to do is are we going to go to a full Australian ballot, and are we going to mail those ballots out to people and at a later date are we going to decide if we need to have a different type of actual town meeting to allow those from the floor ideas to come forward. That's good to me. Yeah, so I would I would then like to move that we authorize going to an Australian ballot for the 2021 town meeting with mailing. Well, that that that is I think you you you hit the nail on the head treating and I know this from talking to other municipal officials in the course of writing about this issue. They're all concerned about who's going to bear the cost of mail in ballots. I don't know that we need to decide that now, necessarily, but we can wait to see what what the legislator decides when it reconvenes in January. I'll share with the board that it'll, it'll cost roughly we have roughly about 3500 registered voters in town. Joyce believes that roughly about 400 of those are no longer in town, but until those 400 are, you know, corrected, there's roughly about 3500 and each ballot when we mail it would would roughly cost about 60 cents. Each mailing would cost roughly about $2,100. And, you know, that that would be that would be a cost for for us. Mailout ballots. Yeah, but it could be addressed by the legislature to make that eligible for the COVID funding that's out there. That's right. I'm on some money right now that could potentially be sent back to DC because we haven't allocated it in the right parts so you know is is the, so the motion that's waiting for a second is to go Australian ballot and make a decision at a later date on whether we mail out the ballots. Yeah, that's, that's the motion I made I'm open to amending it if someone wants to, you know, put the question of mailing out ballots in it but I don't know that it's decision we need to make right now. It's it's separate from the issue of going to an Australian ballot, and we can determine what that looks like later, I think, but you know it's up to discussion. You mentioned this Tom but I think it's important to say for the one year so that people don't get upset. Oh, absolutely. And that and that's what Act 162 says is this is a temporary move. And that select boards and municipal governing bodies are authorized for this year and this coming year only to is normally this move would require a vote of the of the townspeople. Right. So we have a motion but we don't have a second on it. Can we, the only the only other thing I'd want to say is, we could delay this decision about whether to mail out ballots or not. The cost issue but I put out there right now that I'm comfortable mailing it out whether the state pays for it or the town pays for it. I think having everybody get a ballot is is pretty is a good thing I like how it really promotes participation amongst the voters. Right now the problem is guys we have a motion with no second and no conversation, according to Robert's rules and let me amend my motion then and keeping with what Larry just said. I will move that we move to Australian ballot for town meeting 2021 and that we move we mail out ballots to all registered voters. And we can, you know, so I'll just leave it at that we can we can we can address the funding of that at a later date. That's my revised motion. Second. The motion and a second all those in favor. Hi. Any nays or abstentions. I miss pads but I should die. How about more conversation. Pressure zone layer to get the state to cover that under COVID. Yeah, I would love to see the state to cover it under COVID. So, Madam, Madam chair may I make a comment I didn't get a chance to jump in. Sure. The town, the town should consider switching to a online platform that allows surveys and then you don't need to do Australian ballot, or mail them out. Next on the agenda. Was that mask man. I'm going to actually going to skip over G and H and move to I which is the firefighter personnel policy draft. These items are taken a little longer just in considering the time that people have been sitting on the call. So we're going to take up firefighter personnel policy draft at this point. And so I have headed up that from the select board perspective, developing a new fire personnel policy. And we have this initiative has been taken up on with all three departments. And has actually been pretty impressive the that we've seen from the fireside. This began because the town. So it's in looking at the issue of firemen are not really employees of the town. We are more of volunteers, but certain aspects of what we asked them to do, kind of bring them under a quasi employee. So we looked at the employee personnel manual. And for, you know, we just adopted this recently. In April, May of 19 somewhere in there. And that addresses a lot of our employees, but it isn't real specific to our firefighters. So if we look at the pieces of it in there. You know, we're kind of targeting our full time employees, our part time employees that work at least 20 hours. And then we go towards kind of our temporary emergency folks and whatnot. So part of the goal when we did that policy manual was to move to update a lot of our policies and move to more modern practices in government. One of the biggest bones of contention that we're facing right now and random is that our personnel policy manual for our full time and our part time employees requires direct deposit. And there has been, I will tell you that I have spent way more hours on this in the last six months than I ever thought would be needed on a topic like this. So we have, we have been putting in overtime basically working with representatives from the three fire departments in Randolph to develop their own policy manual, because it's very important to those folks that they remain in a volunteer position and not as an actual employee of the town. And so I could go into hours of conversation about what the nuances and the differences are. We do not have that personnel policy manual available tonight or ready to present to the board. Because we have some major issues with how we handle workers comp for our volunteer firemen who choose to opt out of having to carry workers comp on themselves because of their business structures. And that's an issue that's probably going to end up before the legislature before we're done here. But that's one that we got a crack to finish this manual and the other one is allocating how we issue pay to our firefighters on this. So, I can tell you we have the before us tonight is on how we pay the firefighters for what they have already provided to the town of Randolph for 2020. We have a warrant that went out and all but 12 of the firemen are paid by that warrant. The 12 that aren't paid have chosen to receive checks instead of direct deposits. And I've seen some comments on the approvals of they didn't do what they needed to do. So the rest of them shouldn't have to be held up. I believe that every firefighter has done what they needed to do. I do not believe our town personnel policy is on solid ground to mandate that they get direct deposit, and I am just appalled at the hours and hours that have gone into this. We're asking for 12 checks. Some of the folks that like checks are on the call tonight. And it might be good for you to hear why direct deposits not an option. Trini, if I may, I think it would be fair that if, if a platform will be given to individuals that are choosing to be paid a certain way, that information should also be shared as to why the personnel policy applies and why the town is in a particular position at this point and what issues would be created by making exceptions for certain individuals. Understood Adolfo. And I think tonight the issue is that we have a policy that has been worked on for six months. It's about ready to come to the board. We do not believe that the personnel policy covers this group of folks. There are some folks that believe that it does. And unfortunately, if you haven't remembered the policy that we all adopted, you're probably not going to be able to reference it, but it's an issue. And then to basically there's a line in the sand. We have a position on each side and neither side is willing to cave. But, you know, it's, it's absurd. We're talking about writing 12 checks to pay for the services already provided in 2020 to get us that extra month to two months before the board for the firemen of Randolph. And that's what this is boiled down to and I can tell you that in the work I've done on this, there are a lot of hours that these folks commit to the town that are not tallied on the payroll records that they get. And this is now spilled over into a lot of hard feelings. And you probably all received the email where services that these firemen have provided on their own time are not going to be provided now, because they feel like they're just being slighted. Trini correct me if I'm wrong, but the draft the draft that I have seen for the draft personnel policy for firefighters includes direct deposit for firefighters. So the number one comment we got from that draft was that they wanted the option of direct deposit and checks. And now the brain trees comments that came in on that that was the only comment they submitted. So, there is a lot of pushback for going to direct deposit by the fire personnel. The other the other issue here seems to be by who's interpretation and definition of the existing personnel policy. Do the firefighters qualify as employees. It seems like it's pretty ambiguous I don't have it in front of me. I believe I had heard somewhere that it defines part time employees as 20 hours or more. Is that accurate. That is accurate. It is or is not. It is, it is accurate Tom, however, in this process I can't share with you that in the many communications we've had with with the town's attorney and with BLCT. And the information that that they have provided is that the relationship. The, the, the status of volunteer is broken if pay is issued on a per hour basis. So, even if 20 hours per week if that level is not met. The relationship of an employer employee exists if someone is saying I worked 10 hours, I am being compensated for 10 hours worth of work. And that is that is the position that has been stated by the town's attorney and confirmed through BLCT. So you're right, Adolfo, the manner in which we had been led by the prior town manager to believe we had to pay our fall at our firefighters by the hour does lead them to be defined as an employee in certain parts of what they do. So I think that the town policy personnel policy does not include them as a covered group that has to meet the policy and in the policy is where it says that they will be paid by direct deposit. I'd like to just jump in here for a second because I think we could spend a lot of time talking about what the policy means and, and argue about how it should be interpreted. But at this particular moment, I, I personally would just like to see the firefighters get paid. And so I'd like to kind of short circuit that process and just get to the point where I can say, you know, what does the slept board need to do what kind of motion can we entertain so that we can get the firefighters paid and then work through these issues, like you were saying, Trini, with the new firefighter policy. So this doesn't come up again and then just take care of this tonight quickly. So my recommendation in conversations I've had over the couple last couple days, Larry to that point was that the select board make a motion that not withstanding the town personnel policy that the fight the 12 checks be issued for the term of 2020. And what that does is it limits the number of them to the exact that the ones that have not been paid yet. And it limits the time span to only 2020, which doesn't, you know, give permission to move forward. And I think it's a pressure on for us to bring this policy manual to you for approval before the next time period. These we issue checks currently twice a year for the village department and once a year for East Randolph and Randolph Center. So moved. Well, there's additional information that I feel the select board needs to consider and that can make a motion that what is being proposed as this is the next time this is the last time the checks will be issued has been made before it was made last year. The solution that we were able to present an issuing one additional check and breaking from the employee required of issuing through direct deposit was that every employee was was given at least one pay cycle of one final check. Before they were transitioned on to direct deposit, which is why last December, a checks were issued to all firefighters. Now, that that promise, you know, again, there there are some firefighters who will say that that wasn't true. And I have hold very firm that that was the only reason why the town agreed to issue checks in December came to a head again in June, when the next payment issued to the Randolph Village Fire Department was supposed to be made. And the promise that I feel had been for the commitment that I feel had been made to the town was forgotten. And so now we had gone to a point where firefighters in the village, according to those firefighters that shared with me were saying that their leadership were telling them that they were not employees, they did not have to sign up for direct deposit. I'm not saying that what they were told actually happened I'm just reporting to the board, what was reported to me. And now we're at a point where many firefighters at that point did not initially submit a direct deposit form have since submitted direct deposit form. And now we're reaching a new point for the next payment, when the select board and town management are being told, this is the last check that will be issued to firefighters. I do not believe that that is the case. On the board, my, my professional opinion to the select board with all of the information that has been given to us by our attorney, by the way, we pay firefighters and his opinion their employees. And if we're treating 12 employees separately from the group, we are setting the town up for considerable issues moving forward. And my recommendation to the select board is, we've had this promise, or this commitment made before it hasn't come to fruition in allowing these 12 employees or choosing to not abide by the personnel policy, whether it specifically states them or not, would be creating a potential problem in the future. Now I will say that we do have a union contract. The union contract says that the union contract supersedes anything, but if that union contract falls silent, then the town personnel policy comes into play. So that, that document already there will show that the personnel policy doesn't include everything and doesn't include everyone, because we have this other union contract that's going on but now for saying that if it's not specifically stated or every person's is not stated in the personnel policy, then the select board is essentially saying that anyone can challenge anything if the personnel policy is silent on it. So I, my, my, the reason why the board is paying me to be here, and to check with the experts and the attorneys, and to share with the select board, the opinion that will decrease liability the town. In this case, that decreased liability to the town would be to not create a separate group that is going to be paid a separate way, which will then allow every employee to then say they're separate groups and want to be paid a separate way. I'm not quite understanding paying the separate way here okay there's two choices to get paid in my mind, you get a check, or you get direct deposit I don't know why we're pushing the direct deposit thing and it kind of annoys me that that's what we're doing because we've created a tremendous amount of animosity in the community right now over this particular issue over making people take direct deposit, and I get the direct deposit thing because I've got a business and I've had employees lose okay and with some pain in the ass to have to go back and redo them, but you know what it's not frigging impossible but you were creating a lot of problems here, in my opinion, by forcing people to go direct deposit. That's my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Miss treaty, are we allowed to speak from the public at this point. Yeah, just give me one second Matt, I want to be clear that we have been working on a separate policy for the firefighters. And it has been with the town's attorney now for quite a while waiting for an answer that was basically a non answer. And so we're chasing a couple of issues still which is why you don't have this policy in front of you that we just got the answer to so I don't believe that it's a fair statement that you won't have this policy before you soon because there are a lot of people out there in the firefighter world that have been busting ass to get this done. And you will have that policy and even if we have to remove the section of workers comp while we figure that out. It will be before you for the January meeting. And so, you know, I don't, I don't see this as an ongoing issue. We had hope to get this our target was to have this to you tonight for approval for these December payments. The number one pushback in that draft document was having to go direct deposit. That is a huge issue to some of these folks and the more I took and the time and reached out to them and listen to their personal stories. I got it. I am a wife of a 30 year plus firefighter. I lived it. I get what the, what the issues are. And, you know, I would encourage you to reach out to some of these folks and understand what they give up to be a firefighter. So, you know, I don't see why we're spending the same as Perry why are we spending so much time and effort on the ability to issue 12 checks. It's like four hours of my day today. Oh, I've been I'm sure. And I'm not happy about it.  I don't like you said I don't know why we're requiring them to go direct deposit. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me given the fact that these guys are volunteers and they get compensated very little for what they do. Okay, Perry, just to be clear, I think I know that you stated that they're volunteers, but I disagree. And that's, that's the crux of the problem is that volunteer. Let's put it this way. They may not be volunteering all of their time but they're volunteering a lot of their time. And so, like I said, this is creating a tremendous amount of animosity. You've got a number of people riled up now over a recreational event that was supposed to happen on Saturday that the Randolph Center fire department was going to be involved in. I got phone calls about this all afternoon and I got better things to do they're worried about 12 frickin paychecks. And we can we make a move on. It sounds like we know what we want to do. Yeah, we have a motion actually made by Larry waiting for a second. We have a motion. Any conversation. Since you mentioned earlier, Trini and I hope we can keep this brief and move on to the motion as made in second did but since you did mention earlier that there are people present on this zoom meeting, who can speak to the deep seated questions about going to direct deposit. I'd like to at least hear from one of them as to, because it feels to me as an outsider, and somebody who who has been paid by direct deposit in my jobs for many many years. It feels like a relatively trivial issue and it clearly isn't for a lot of the firefighters. So I just love to hear from somebody for a couple of minutes as to what the problem is. I'd like to hear that too. Yeah, that sounds pretty, you know, a paper chat direct deposit what's the difference really. Exactly. Two stories with you that I heard one guy takes his check cast list of items that they would like to do to their home. He caches the check and buys the materials and Christmas day. That's what they do. So she doesn't know how much money he has or which project he's chose. He's not taking the money out of his checking account she doesn't see where it goes, and he surprises her with the materials and they do the project that day. Another one told the story of caching the check and doing a lot of side jobs, saving up the money over a few years, and being able to give his wife the money to redo their kitchen. So, you know, we don't pay him a lot. And, you know, a lot of them it's their Christmas. You know, some of them going Christmas bonus in a way yeah. Yeah, you know, I have been with Jeff spent a fireman for over 30 years. I got presents with the money now I just get the check, but when a lot of people say I use that, and I can do the Christmas shopping before my spouse knows what I have for money. I get it. That's the whole thing and there's a couple folks on here that have shared stories I think Matt Fordham wanted to share one and Tim has shared some to so. And, you know, if they want to explain why a check is important to them I'm floor is open. Well made a speech training. Or go ahead Tim. So, I get to check and I cash it, and I do my Christmas shopping.  And, but more than that, it's the principle of the whole thing. As an example, a year ago, I spent seven hours up on the interstate because somebody who thought they had just because they had a four wheel drive pickup they could go 80 miles an hour. When it was snowing. We lost it in front of a milk tanker, the milk tanker keep them push them off the road and they went off the road to we spent seven hours up there. I missed my granddaughters third birthday party because of it. And on top of that. So that was seven hours that, you know, get paid for. But on top of that, I spent probably three hours doing paperwork for cliff. So the town could get reimbursed three of my firefighters tried to stop a fuel leak on the trap that diesel fuel on their gear. So we had to buy new gear for them. And I spent time ordering that getting everything around. And the town ended up because that effort of mine, getting a check for $15,000 $8,000 of it went to replace the gear that was lost, but the other 7,000 went into the general fund. And really, if the town can't have the decency to write me a check, I just, they don't write me a check. I don't care. But I'm not signing up for direct deposit. Tim, the time that it took you to do the paperwork side of that for the town to get reimbursed. Was that time charged to the town for the hourly rate you get paid. No. Chief of random center fire department. What do you get paid an hour. I think it's around $15 an hour somewhere in that range. I'm not, I'm not sure, but I, I can tell you, I probably. I think I've got a little over 100 hours that I'm supposed to get reimbursed for but I can tell you, I've got way more than 200 hours time into being fire chief. That makes me 15, 20 minutes. Just to fill out the nifers reports for each fire. And so the practice of each department if I understand it correctly is, it's kind of up to each individual at the department what hours they actually report and collect some type of wage for. It's a good charge for paperwork. Some don't charge for paperwork. Right. I have to fill out all that paperwork out of, you know, who, who attended meetings and who attended the training and who was at all the fires and record their hours. And all that paperwork that you do. Those hours don't, you don't accumulate hours towards what submitted to the town. No, I'll, I'll, I'll firemen treated the same. You get an hour for every meeting you went to. To once a month and two hours a month for training, attended the training meeting and then. You get the hours. You spend at a fire. This is Matt. So I don't, I can't speak for the center East Randolph, but in addition to the paperwork hours, we get, we get our call hours based on the time that the tone goes off and we're responding to the station to the time that the truck rolls into the station. So say that's a house fire that we spend two and a half, three, four, six, eight, 12 hours on or whatever our time charge ends when we roll that last truck in the station. When that truck rolls in, then all of a sudden now the cleanup has to occur of cleaning hose cleaning equipment, re, re, re conditioning the air packs, getting all that equipment back on getting the water back in the trucks cast system back the truck so after fire it's easily an hour and a half. If not more longer fire obviously you know more cleanup more more preparation to get back back in service, but none of those hours are charged and every person that's on that fire call stays afterwards and puts those hours in. So every structure fire that we have you can add easily, you know, five, eight, 10, 20 hours to the end of the call for the number of folks that are that are cleaning up and getting the equipment back in service for free. So, if I can just interject and thank you both Tim and Matt for for clarifying these things. When the hours that matches referenced, I think our firefighters should be compensated for those it's part and parcel of their job fighting the very fire that they just came back from or incident. So that, but but that's sort of tangential to this whole issue of that I had asked about about what the problem with direct deposit is I hear what Tim saying. And I feel, you know, I feel that he's got a point there. I don't think we need to decide it tonight. The issue at hand and the motion that's on the table is about the 12 people that are some of whom have been waiting for check since June. I would like to maybe it's a separate motion. I would like to direct the committee, whatever the group is that trainees been working with on this personnel manual for the firefighters. There's got to be another community in Vermont comparable to Randolph that has wrestled with this issue I've got to believe that. Yeah, Tom, if I may, this is Matt again. So I would, I'm on that fire committee. Yeah, that's part of the team is putting this this documentation together. We have pulled samples from I don't know how many other towns and probably four other towns of wrongs, as well as towns in Pennsylvania and New York looking at examples with personnel policy. We also do the crafts reference of our policy to the town policy to make sure all the necessary things that were in the town policy were addressed appropriately in this policy. Okay, so I think I think that once you guys see it, you'll see the homework that's put into this into this document and the effort written to that. And specific to your, your info, you know, probably your where you're going with the direct deposit versus the versus the paychecks. I couldn't find that addressed in any of the ones that we looked at and maybe we haven't looked enough. That could be a fair statement but we've looked at a lot. Yeah, and I just wanted to point out one other thing. So this is Matt as a former select board member I was directly involved with those conversations with Adolf about this is the last time kind of thing. And I will put a little more information that was my perspective on the conversation when I was in his office on this. We did agree that that was going to be originally the last time but then this fire committee idea came up where we started looking at equipment and resources personnel chain of command the insurance needs. We're all the hide and soar this whole fire committee was put together to look at the needs for the town of Randolph. And, you know, that's when this stuff started coming up about the direct deposit and are we employees not employees. It was all a result of digging into this. And so my recollection of the discussion with Adolfo which he and I disagree on and I respect his perspective was that, well, we're not going to do anything we're not going to make any final decision to the fire community comes back because it would be it would be premature to make those kinds of decisions until the fire committee came back with a whole fire service perspective and recommendation. So we kicked off that fire committee we started going we had two great meetings started assigning tasks to all the different representatives and then cove it. And stop the meetings and, and, and then it moves it in my perspective it progressed from a fire committee whole town need. And all of a sudden, you know, as tree me has mentioned it went boom rate to these these this pay issue, and people dug their heels on and all sides. And that was one that was getting a check. And the only reason I signed up for the direct deposit was because I was like trying to be front and this is firefighter is first assistant chief at the village. I try to set an example for the rest of the fire personnel at our department say okay guys you know we're doing this trying to set it up but you know that didn't work. I'd still be getting there for the check for the same reason 10 does right my wife does all of my finances, because she doesn't like me balancing the checkbook. I'll run a business but I can't, you know, run up run a home home financing apparently, but anyway, you know, so.  So that's all I'm going to say. Okay. If I may, I've been on the village fire department for over 36 years, and I'm appalled at what you guys have put our departments through in these last years and I understand it awful and Cliff may have their reasons. I don't care. It's up to me how I spend my check and I've always spent my check on my wife and to better our whole. And for me to have to have that go into our home checking account is not a decision that you guys should be making for me it's my decision. I mean that I put in just like everybody else enormously amount of hours above and beyond that we have never been compensated for I get paid or used to get paid minimum wage to go into a burning building and save somebody's life. And it seems like you guys don't care. And thank you Perry for what you said, and I'm not saying that that Adolfo and Cliff don't care but that's the impression we're getting from you guys is that you don't care that it's too much for you to write out a simple darn chat. Although I get a statement in the mail. I do have direct deposit unfortunately, it goes into a checking account. I have to I shouldn't be forced by my town to make that decision.  I know that I'm doing a hell of a lot more than $10 an hour that we pay minimum wage for, and I agree Perry, the amount of time effort has been so wasted on this effort. It's just phenomenal. You know, I'm on I am on that committee that Matt and Trini Iran, and other department members. You guys don't even begin to understand the amount of time we put into that the whole time that we spent on researching for a new fire truck. We don't get compensated for that but we put in enormous hours doing that stuff the sacrifices that our family makes for us. On Christmas Day and go fight a fire and not be here, or that our wise have to step up and do extra work around the house because we're off to a fire. You know, we should be giving you guys all a phone call when we go out at two o'clock in the morning, because you don't want to write checks for us seriously. I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. I'd like to point out that I'd like to be clear that the discussion here trying to bring it to the select board is that the discussion here is that we're not going to get get rid of pay for firefighters. The discussion here is the method of pay. And it's not that we won't be paying firefighters. There's a distinction there. I'm clear that, you know, from from what I'm hearing that is being conveyed to the select board is a frustration of that could lead of not being paid versus the way people are being paid. We've gotten members of doffo that should have gotten a check back in June, and they still have not been paid only because they won't go to direct deposit. They should not be forced by this town to go direct deposit. So we do have members that have not been paid since June. How many of you guys haven't got a paycheck since June. And this whole issue came to a headway in the other day. When we received the warrant from from cleft for this current payroll. And all but 12 firefighters were on it so I totally hear you. I don't think anyone, however, I have to say I don't think anyone on this select board. Speaking for myself here but I think I can speak for everyone else, or for that matter at town hall and the administration doesn't recognize or appreciate deeply all that you folks do, both as on hourly wage and as volunteers. So, I just want to be really clear about that. I've just come to the, I've come to the realization that that the personnel policy of the town that applies to the bulk of our full and part time employees. I think it feels after hearing everything I've heard tonight like it's a separate issue from this firefighter personnel manual that's being developed and that you and Matt and Tim and Trini have worked so hard on. I really feel like I'd like to suggest that we call the motion, since we have a motion on it second on the table point point of information so just to clarify. I think it is my job requirement to ensure that the select board is doing what it needs to do. And I'm not saying that what it's doing now is not proper what I'm saying is that I'm being paid to limit liability to the town. One that is made that is potentially quasi contradictory to an established policy, I would have to run by our attorney to ensure that enforcing this motion is an increasing liability to the town. The select board now has a policy that it adopted that it pays employees a certain way, and doesn't vote to cancel that policy first before voting to issue checks to 12 individuals who in their pay way are municipal employees. So if the select board were to tonight to tonight vote to issue 12 paychecks to employees, which is contradictory to the town's personnel policy, I would have to take this motion verbatim, share it with our attorney and say, this is the established personnel policy. This is the motion that was passed by the select board. Can we do what the select board wants to do with this motion, or is this motion, not valid, because it contradicts the established personnel policy. So Adolfo is the motion better that we not withstanding the town's personnel policy manual. We were directing the issuance of 12 paychecks to the fire personnel. Yeah, yeah, can we wave can we wave the personnel manual in this instance. And as has as Trini and others have suggested, let's let's, you know, knuckle down let's buckle down and and and and get this issue hammered out for 2021. But in the meantime, we have a handful of firefighters that have been waiting since June to be compensated for services they've provided I feel like we've we've gone down a rabbit hole here that just keeps getting deeper and deeper when the solution if we can wave the personnel policy is to just pay the pay the damn 12 people and get it done. And let's wrestle with the legal implications of that moving forward. Well, the board can certainly make any motion it likes, you know, whatever the language it chooses to use. I would just have to present that motion and the policy to our attorney. Okay, the attorney would likely say the board can do whatever it wants. And that could be, you know, what the attorney says but I would have to advise the board that my next action is to say this motion contradicts established policy. Fine. Yeah. In a second on the table. My question is whether we want to move forward with that one or let it die. And do we want a motion that just sets aside the personal manual and gives direction to issue these checks. My concern is, I don't want to see bureaucratic process delay these checks beyond Christmas. Absolutely. The key date for these guys. Absolutely. These checks need to be issued in in the mail by Friday. So Trini, are you suggesting that I amend my, my motion to, or are you suggesting that the emotion that's on the table be amended to add a phrase that says we're waiving personnel policy to make this happen. I would say yes, and that they be completed and mailed by Friday. Trini and I understand the position that I understand your position and I understand the message that's being conveyed. But I as a professional who have been hired to do something would not be able to move forward unless our attorney says, yes, this is a legal motion. I understand the board wants something to happen before a certain day, and I will push our attorney to issue judgment before that day. But I can I can assure the select board that I as a professional would not be able to move forward until I can receive clarification that the act is legal. So Adolfo, my concern is that we just asked a couple of basic questions to the normal attorney we used and it took him six to eight weeks, whatever it was to get us an answer that was a non answer. So I do not want to see this be a question that goes to an attorney to die and misses the date that is so important to these folks that get a check. I understand that Trini I respect that and I do but I, you know, and it sounds like I'm playing lip service but my professional ethics would not allow me to move forward with an act that I would know that is not 100% legal. I understand that that date is very important. I understand that and I understand that this issue has been ongoing for over a year. I could CC you and every email message that I sent to the attorney. I could message you following after every telephone call that I make to that attorney. Our HR attorney is also not the only HR attorney in the state, we can reach out to other HR attorneys, but I would not be able to move forward unless I can confirm that this is a legal motion. I also could not direct the finance department to move forward, because they also have professional ethics that they have to follow. So I think it's important then Tom that we have it that we're not withstanding the personnel policy manual. In the motion so the motion that's on the floor was made by, unless I'm mistaken, I've sort of been following the bouncing ball here isn't the motion under under discussion, the one that was made by Larry and Perry to issue the 12 paychecks and if so, are they amenable to adding an amendment that says not withstanding the existing personnel policy. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm amenable to that. So just to clarify the motion that Adolfo will be taking forward to legal counsel. First thing to morning is not withstanding the personnel policy manual. The board is voting to issue 12 paychecks to the firefighters have elected not to participate in direct deposit. And do you want to add Trini with payment by Friday. I mean, we need to put some pressure on the attorney to respond so that Adolfo is not in the ethical dilemma that he and Cliff have suggested they're in. That tomorrow is Friday. That's true. A little bit unrealistic with Friday but I don't think Tuesday is unrealistic. I don't either. Can we add Tuesday as a day deadline for the issuance of the checks. So I guess the question is to Larry and Perry if that is an acceptable motion to you. Yes. Yes. So we have a motion and a second on the table all those in favor. Hi. Opposed. Abstained motion care. Just so that I'm clear, the motion is not withstanding the personnel policy manual. The board is the board. The board votes to issue 12 paychecks to firefighters that chose to not participate in direct deposit. For the wages earned in 2020. And issue those checks by Tuesday, whatever the date is. And I understand that there is a date of this upcoming Tuesday. That's the 15th. 15th, but I still would stress to the board that. Even though there is a deadline. We still have to perform our due diligence with speaking with the attorney. Or a attorney, not necessarily the one that we work with. I could send the attorney the documents tonight. The attorney may reply by tomorrow, but if the attorney doesn't reply until Wednesday. Just, I just want to point that out. No, we should find a new attorney. Okay. I mean, there's absolutely no reason if this is this cut and dry. An issue as you're suggesting it may be. From a legal standpoint, then the onus is on an attorney to give us a prompt response. And if that attorney doesn't give us a prompt response, maybe we don't go to him again. On an issue like this.  It's been six weeks from now. Trini makes a really strong case. It's the time of year when, you know, people are trying to marshal every penny to, to provide a holiday for holiday gift for their families or a holiday for their families. And to make it even worse this year, we're dealing with COVID.   It's going to make us look really sorry if we don't get this done before Christmas. We'll keep us posted and alpha on your progress. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Thank you. I will send the email message to the attorney tonight and I will CC everyone it is not an actual meeting because we're just informing the board of the action. Right. So everyone will see that the communication went to the attorney. Okay, as, as, as much as I'd like to move on to a new topic. I just want to ask question, which is that my understanding is that what the personnel policy is in place by a simple vote of the board, isn't that correct? Yes, that's correct. So is the, is the personnel policy amend amendable by a simple vote of the board. Yes. Yes, I'd have to double check to see if there are notice requirements that have to be given to personnel because the practices that if we're changing the personnel policy we inform staff that the change is happening because it affects all employees. Okay, well, I'm just, I just want to see if we can, if there's any way we can make sure that we're covering any bases that we need to to make sure that this happens. If we can amend the policy to not include the firefighters in this one special case for this one particular moment that if we have the power to do that, that that's that we should be doing that. Larry the not withstanding sets aside the personnel policy. Okay. I don't really care what it says in that policy, you're being directed issue 12 checks to these firefighters. Yeah. Right. So going backwards now let's go up to an enforcement action on property at 10 Dudley street. But before I do that, I'd like to thank the firemen that joined us tonight. Hey thanks for having us. Yeah. Thank you for having us and help Tim give me a call. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. First minute 10 Dudley. Yes, the town has would like to receive the board's approval to seek an enforced action against the business owner at 10 Dudley street. The issue there is, well, we all know what the condition of the property is. So we're going to take an argument moving forward in the courts. However, the argument is made much more strongly. If the select board authorizes staff through a motion to seek an enforcement act. Against the property owner that is in violation of the land use regulations. Okay. Larry, can you leave this for just a second while I step away. I'll be right back. Yeah, sure. So it sounds like a simple motion. I can handle that for him. So I'd like to vote, make a motion to authorize the town to file an enforcement action in court against the property owners on the 10 Dudley street. Your second. Is there a second Larry Larry's pad. I just want to say that I'm going to abstain from this whole issue. And it's false to Tom if you would like to make a second. I'll second it. Okay. All in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. The motion passes three zero with. I guess two abstentions with training out here and Pat abstaining. That's right. Thank you. Thank you. And so we're going to move on to the list of office, the errors and emissions certification. Not in your original or even your updated. Meeting packet. My apologies. There were some issues on our end. You should have received a separate email that contains the errors and emissions from the Lister's office for, for you to review. There are, I believe roughly about five changes. That are in your, in your email. Yep. Got that. So, so do you need a motion to adopt those changes? Yes, please. I think that we approve and. We agree with and approve the errors and the mentions as submitted by the West. The second. Motion to second all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passes. Five zero. Thank you. I am. Sorry. Take a break. We finished the whole meeting and adjourned while you work out. Yeah. Now I can have something besides water. Whatever you want. As long as it's as long as it's clear, no one will know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Bert Reynolds used to do that. It's a bit of a tangent, but I've learned that Bert Reynolds was notorious for walking around with a water bottle. That didn't smell quite right. Full of vodka. Okay. So next up is the freedom foods wastewater adjustment. Yes. We have Cliff on the line who's been writing heard on this particular issue. It's not a challenge, but the issue that was raised with the town was that. We had a consumer of water within the water district. Who was not discharging water because the water was being used in formulas.  And so they brought this issue. To the town outside of the 30 day reporting period. Which is one of the reasons why. The water committee and then Cliff has worked really hard with the water committee and the business owner. And after running calculations and determining the amount of water used in formulas. The amounts in the documents that were in your packet. We'll show that in each particular quarter, a certain amount of money was charged for sewer discharge that didn't actually happen. But we have Cliff on the line. And if he has more information, we'll see how we can get that out of there. And I think it's a great opportunity for the like. Yeah. So they. They originally came to Chris and. Talked about this issue where they're using water in their. Formulas for producing product and they bake it off. And it never hits the wastewater stream. Chris came to me and asked me, well, how, how are we going to do this? Because we can't just trust them on it. And they, they actually put together a detailed listing and an example of how much water was used in each batch. The date that it was produced on. And, and then they convert. Because they use weight for water in their recipes. They converted it to actual gallons used. And then what we did is we took the X. The listing of all of these batches. And selected a sample and went out there and examined the. The batches that were created and how much water was used in those batches.  The batch sheets that they keep. To track their production of different products. And tested those and made sure that the entries on the spreadsheet were correct. So that when we summarized them, we had a good idea of how much water was actually not hitting the wastewater stream. And so then we took those gallons that they were. They've given to us. We converted them back to. 100 cubic feet units, which is how we bill. And, and calculated out an adjustment. For each quarter's billing, they, they bill. They actually get billed one month off the calendar quarter. So they're getting billed in February, April, February, May, August and November. And so my suggestion to them was to keep the calculations on a, on a calendar quarter so that we're trailing their billing quarter by one month, which would allow a credit to be hitting a bill in, in real time each quarter. We've got three quarters assembled. And the totals are $357.50 for the first quarter. $396.38 for the second quarter. $242.13 for the third quarter. And that is against billings of almost $19,000. We, we met with the wastewater committee and discuss this and the wastewater committee was positively aligned to granting a credit. And so we're bringing it to the select board now for final approval to grant the credit back to the customer. I have a question. Yes. So does that mean that all the water that I use to wash all my trucks at 14 health street? I don't have to pay the sewer allocation on. I'll do the documentation if that's what you're looking for, because if it's going to boil down to, we're going to open up this can of worms and we're going to allow credits for water, not going down the wastewater system. I think we got to be fair to all and develop a policy for this. I don't know the exact situation under the wastewater ordinance, Perry, but there is a provision in there that allows for this. That's funny because years ago I was told there wasn't. So I guess we need to look into that a little more because if that's the case, I'm all right with doing this, just I wanted to be fair and equitable to everybody. So are we're going to end up getting into a calculation thing or are we going to be putting meters on sewer lines? Perry, as part of the material that was shared with the select board, it includes the sewer. Yeah, I didn't get a chance to read all that just yet. So yeah, it does include a method for seeking. Let's say in this particular instance, the policy itself does specifically state some items like filling a swimming pool. You can't really. I saw that part. I read all that. Yeah. So there is a, if there's the policy does include a mechanism for it. Like I mentioned earlier, it's typically within a 30 day period. And the reason why, and the policy says that the town manager can make the determination, but the reason why we chose to come to the board is because we're outside of the 30 day period. The board can absolutely say, no, we're not going to issue the credit even though the wastewater committee may recommend this because they're outside of the 30 day period. So the reason it came to the board is because I felt it's already, you know, it's outside of the 30 day period, even though it does comply with the potential reimbursement portion of it, but it is outside of the 30 day period. I'm not challenging the 30 day period. What I'm saying is, is we're going to do this. And I think we need a system that's fair and equitable. And if this is going to be commercial users, I'm a commercial user. So I'm just saying that probably other people out there like me that have the similar situation here. So if we're going to not bill for water that doesn't go down the drain, then we need a policy that says this is how it's going to be addressed. And I'm not sure that this really does that you've come up with calculations and, and different batching, but that's not, you know, I, that's probably a great formula. But right now I'm a little concerned that, you know, like I said, I think the majority of the water that I use on at the bottom of the street, 12 whole street doesn't go down the drain because I've got one bathroom in there used by one employee, but I wash my trucks over on that side. Right. But the difference here is that. I mean, it might be splitting hairs to say this, but the difference here is that. Freedom foods is actually putting the water into making a prod product. Well, that's a cost of good sold. Right. Right. So I'm not, that's, that's splitting hairs because. The water is not going down the drain. It doesn't matter whether it doesn't get down the drain into a food product or it doesn't go down the drain because it goes on to the ground. Okay. I mean, it's just not going down the drain. So like I said, well, I'm happy to do, I'm happy to create a credit program, but I want to see a fair and equitable policy about this. Sure. Sure. The other hair to split here is it also made mention of the swimming pool piece of this. When you fill an empty a swimming pool. I know this because I filled out the paperwork. You know how many gallons of water you're filling that pool with, but when you're washing a truck or, you know, I mean, if we go down this rabbit hole, am I, when I wash my car then as a private individual. That's my point. Okay.  When we were talking about water that wasn't going down the drain and I was told, wow, that's just the way it is. You know, if you use it, that's the only way we have a metering it. So that's why the water sewer rates are tied to each other. So if we're going to do a policy for commercial, I'm more than happy to come up with a policy for commercial. Not a most of that. I just wanted to make sure it's fair and equitable to everybody because the water that I'm using in my trucks, if you want, I can water meter that particular faucet. I don't think anything that says it is just commercial Perry. Well, I know that's the point.  Th