to change our culture it needed to be a top priority and innovation and collaboration were key to that effort let's continue that effort we've been working diligently to be better and to collaborate engage with the community and we have made progress i've heard people from communities across the city say as much please don't misunderstand me that we still have work to do but we will do that work i'm asking you please allow me the time that's necessary to turn this ship even the expert panel said and i quote it will take sustained effort over time we have an approved staffing level of over 2,300 total employees and we serve a million people because of the scale of the organization and the communities we serve change won't happen overnight but it is happening i believe i've proven i will hold officers accountable not bragging in any way but just a fact 12 hours ago i fired another the fourth in about two and a half weeks it's not fun work but it is hard work that has to be done we've improved our training we've improved our policies with input from the community and we've included the community in that training process and i might mention that our policies are on our website for all the public and community to see what fear i do have is this could negatively affect the morale of the officers of the forward police department i don't want a message to be sent to them that their city city leaders don't have faith in them to make that culture change happen i've talked to some who were on the policy advisory committee we had before which i'm recommending bringing back some were very optimistic about it some were not so much but everyone agreed it could be improved we want to revise update and improve and improve that committee with community input we will have robust and inclusive representation from the community and quite frankly there are people sitting in this room right now who may not be on the side of this board right now but i hope they will consider sitting on it because there's some solid quality people in here on both sides of the discussion i hope you allow me to prove how much i in the forward police department value community input and community engagement i hope you allow us to get our house in order with the community i will hope i hope you will show you have confidence in the officers of the forward police department and the leadership of the forward police department to continue making good on our promise of true community and police collaboration please allow me to do the job that i was hired to do those are my remarks ma'am thank you chief nox assuming every council member has comments this evening i'm going to start to my right with the council member elizabeth beck and move down the dais i don't miss anybody and if there's any question or dialogue back and forth that's more than fine council member beck i'd like to allow um my colleague chris nuttles to open the conversation i think that's fine i'll come back to you go ahead chris first uh before i start my comments uh let me motion um to approve um this ordinance um with the following amendments change throughout the ordinance change the name of the board to community police review board and to update all the referring to the board to be cpr b that's my motion you have any comments i do have comments do i have a second do i need to give my second i'll second it okay thank you all right so i i want to get my comments i really uh do appreciate everybody being here including the pl a president that's in the back against the wall we appreciate him being here as well uh also i want to recognize other leaders that are here um we have the aphids that are here and we have komo that had some people from komo had to leave uh estrus tucker and bob ray sands we really appreciate all the support of you guys being here on today with this is a strong issue and we have some of our black strong pastors that are here to stand the ground and fight to the end i really appreciate your support being here today i want to respond to a lot of the comments i heard i hate the gentleman left but i maybe he'll he's watching um one of the things we talked about was the election and let me tell you um i for one didn't want to take this vote on election day uh because of a lot of people being involved in what was happened across the county but from day one when i got in this office i worked hard and with the city manager and with our uh city council to get this to a vote we have had several many work sessions i have had one on ones with the chief and spoke with him about it i have had meetings with mayor parker and david cook to push it back push it back because of the trial and so we finally got to a place where we can vote and it wasn't easy and so at this time with the expertise that we have and kim neal been able to answer questions off of the fly we want to take this vote tonight and as one of the person said today i think it's by Ray Sanders that a lot of people minds are made up a lot of people have been paid or been talked to or they figure out whatever they're going to do and so whether we push it back and give this chief all the time that he needs to figure it out the voters they're going to be the same until we get people across this dais that understand and respect not just the west side or the north side or the quiet voices because i guess i'm a loud voice from what the lady said earlier to represent all of the community we won't get the change that we really need i look at the people who were speaking today the ones that were speaking for it black majority of color and whites the ones who spoke against it i didn't see color i just saw white and you would never understand walking in a black man's shoes understand what it feels like to have a target on your back because check the type of hair that you have the type of car that you drive and the type of neighborhood that you live in i for one thank god have not been in jail not been arrested but i have been pulled over driving in my black SUV leaving the p-week football game pulled over on campus drive in front of the old sam's and the officer approached my car and he said you fit the description of a robbery in the neighborhood what is this equipment that's in your back of your truck i said sir i'm a poor pastor and i have a church at the hotel and i take the equipment back and forward so that i can speak and preach to my community took my driver's license looked at my record and had i did something wrong or said something crazy or did it something that i shouldn't have done even though i was in the right i could have been a statistic a black man cared about the police department you don't understand the shoes that i walk in this whole system that we saw tonight was crap the fact that we heard all of the speakers who were for it back to back to back you know darn well that they did not sign up like that and all the speakers that were against it we heard them back to back to back to back this system is corrupt people people who are making deals behind closed doors guys you've been able to see it face to face i never would have allowed that to happen but i'm not a part of those meetings let's talk about equity in policing i look at the word equity in a dictionary let me define it for you young man it is the characteristics of quality and fairness so we want to say we want equity in the city we want to be treated just like you we want to be treated just like the rich and the wealthy we don't want to be treated differently because of the color of our skins and where we live and where we grew up from we want to be treated just like a regular citizen of the united states of america that is what equality is that is what equity is it's in your dictionary innovation let's be innovative do you know what the definition of innovative is i looked it up for you it is the act of doing something new do we have a citizen review board no if we implement it what would it do it would be implementing something new that's what innovation is what you want is the old good old board system and i for one have had enough enough people elected me to get in this office and i'm going to stay on the wall until the walls of jericho come down and forward i'm going to be loud i'm going to speak and i'm going to be firm the purpose of this board is that citizens even the ones that were against it you and i can come to a table and decide and talk amongst each other how we feel that we can better our community the board allows each and every one of us to pick someone on the board to represent our community and our district this board is not going to sway one way or sway the other way just like we had a split vote now let's be honest with it this is an opportunity to bring conversation to the city of forward on a broader level on a broader stance that's what we're asking for is a seat at the table all our life my life we have to fight for that seat i'm trying to give our people an opportunity where they don't have to keep fighting but they can have their voice heard william joy did the article that chief talked about and william joy said it and if you can go look on youtube jane were the 25th 2021 chief nox hopeful of a newly launched outreach program will help minority hiring and seeing the need for a citizen review board and has been in the work since the controversy arrest of jackie crea 2016 this board did not come just out of the whim the fly out of the we just didn't reach for it and just made up something we brought this to play because we seriously have issues in our community that are on the books of footwork chief said the truth of the matter is it's coming well it's here it is here whether we wanted or not and i want to be part of the process and i beg you different you have been a part of the process from day one i have met with you privately and in that work session that work session this last time if red was a color we saw it vigorously angry frustrated about whether we trust you it's not a question if we trust you but you won't be the chief for eternity so we need a system that is in place that would provide not trust but accountability i understand that you met with some of the black pastors and even the mayor met with them maybe if i had an opportunity to pick put people on this board i make and get there i'm willing to make those amendments right now right here on the floor giving you an opportunity that this council gets a pick and you get to select two people in addition to our pigs to be on this board that's amendment i'm willing to make i'm willing to compromise because you know why this is the most watered down community police board that exists in america is because we tried to come to some type of consensus to some type of compromise and even with a board a snag a tube board with no teeth can't bite mashed potatoes if they want to you still cannot support it what i have a problem is talk to david cook about this today is that the chief you are a department head you are the head of the police department just like department tpw just like the parks recreation just like um uh dj's part department they're all department heads and when this new council came to play we hounded david david we don't want your department heads telling us no we want you to work with them and how we can get to a yes david cook has been reported and has been written down in his department head meetings saying to his departments i want to make sure we can get to a yes why in the hell can all these other departments get to a yes but we can't get you to a yes come to the table and let's eat let's talk let's have a conversation let's get to a yes people talked about training and requirements kim neal and i for one and i first encounter it wasn't a good one but over time i got to looking into her work into how she operates and the heart of a person and she has put together a recommendation that requires people to go through training to go through a type of training where they don't just look in the community i say but they look in the lens of a fort word police officer where they do ride alongs that they are that they understand how an officer feels in certain situations we just approve a budget where they can get innovative things they put on their head and have a virtual experience these people that sit on this board will be able to go through that training so no sir it is not a board to defund the police it's a board to make accountability of the police i know my colleagues are getting tired but i have a community front line we appreciate your work they put together a police survey result they did they did it back in 21 because one of my colleagues told me that people in their district love the police they want more of them versus people in other districts i want to go to a couple of questions question one it says does fort word have an adequate training people in district two 60 percent said no people in district four 75 percent said no people in district seven 100 percent said no the next question was do you believe that the fort word police has a culture of bias and discrimination district two 100 percent people said yes district four 75 percent said yes district seven 71 percent said yes and district nine 100 percent say yes don't tell if you had an opportunity can you provide this for them question number three does race play a role in how the fort word police interact with the community district two 100 percent said yes district four 87.5 said yes district seven 85.71 percent said yes and district nine 100 percent said yes now watch this one does the fort does fort word need a police department district eight 100 people say yes so i don't think nobody in this city is arguing the fact if we want to defund the police get rid of the police shut the police department down burn it with fire no sir we are saying we want police but we want the right type of police we want accountability police we want police who respect and honor all citizens and why i appreciate that you hang the hat on that you fire four officers within the last two weeks the reality of it you probably should have fired 400 because when you look at the g file that none of y'all have access to not even me to be honest the incidents that the forward that the expert panel talked about and rolled out and articulated there are people in our leadership staff on the police department who does not hand down the correct and the vital type of punishment and what happens is when you do not punish a child for doing something wrong it only gets worse by the day and no i'm not calling them a children but i'm using that as a metaphor to understand that when a child gets away with certain things they will keep on doing it and it will get worse and worse and worse by the day by the second i appreciate well no i respect the people i work with and i'm gonna say this and this is not a shot but i want want you to hear me carlos we we as a community as a black people we supported the sp4 vote i remember very visible uh visibly i stood right there at that sign and we waited hours and hours we didn't speak we just came to support to one o'clock in the morning when the hispanic community fought for the sp4 and you did not have to vote on this council but if you brought that back you would have the votes today we have supported the 287 g at the taren county level we supported activating and establishing a second latino hispanic seat at this council we have worked hard for our latino and hispanic community and all i'm asking today is that the black community is asking for you to support us we are the ones who have been marginalized in this community we are the ones who look at the news and read the newspaper and say that could have been me that could have been my son that could have been my sister died in that house that's what i wake up with this is not a vote alan for me this is personal my heart has been heavy all day because my community elected me to come to this council to fight for them and if this vote goes down as known i have let our community down because we have not got to a consensus here and i'm asking for you people at this dais to see things in a black perspective a lot of you who have been elected you can read numbers just as well as i can and the majority of this next election you'll probably get reelected with hands down you don't have to take money from organizations that try to tell you what to do if you vote no to this today to me it says you do not support the community of color it does it says to me that you don't support the black and the brown community that undoubtedly has a target on their back it says to me that you rather support the poa than the community it says to me that you don't believe that there is a true racial this a true racial issue in the city of forward it is clear on its face that we have a problem and talking about it is not fixing it we have to be about it saying to saying no tonight is a clear message that you do not support the atatiana family jackie crick family shone up to galas and going to come operate does not give you the ability to say you represent black folks and you care about them that you want to be a part of that community voting for this means you should say yes if that is true i made in my business to be a counselor person for all people and it looks like i have to represent black folks in seven three four and everywhere else it shouldn't be like that when we came to this council over 16 months ago the mayor and the council had this atmosphere of let's get to a consensus let's not be a divided council where is the consensus that today where is that same consistent consensus of when we voted on the the the changing of the lines where is that today you know why it's not here because what you see tonight is r versus d republicans versus democrats people who care and people who don't i had my time you had your time to speak and ask my time to speak we will have order in the trunk in the chambers i gotta have i gotta i gotta have order i gotta have order i gotta have order mic you gotta have order let's let him finish we gotta have order we gotta have order i'm talking to my council and we have i have listened mic you gotta have order please just let him finish and we'll keep going go ahead chris i have said on numerous occasions that support the police department but we want accountability and today that is what this vote is about that is why we have brought it up and i understand what hurts the most is truth and that's what you have heard today thank you it's not easy taking something that you know might not pass um but i appreciate your conviction and i appreciate your words tonight so i got up real early this morning earlier than i normally get up because this has been on my heart and what has been on my heart is that i am angry and there are things that i want to say on this dais to people sitting on this dais with me uh that quite frankly aren't appropriate for this dais because i'm disappointed i don't know what it's like to be brown or black but i know what it's like to accept someone when they tell me their truth and i know that our city didn't have a problem but still has a problem that we're wrestling with and i think that's real evident by what you've heard tonight uh not just from my colleague but from all of the all of you who came here tonight to speak your piece whether it be for or against it what was very clear to me in this room is that there is without question still a divide in our city the race and culture task force was a response to jackie craig but it was not a response to just jackie craig just jackie craig did not happen in a vacuum we did not decide that we were going to spend almost two years and thousands of hours whether it be staff time or community support uh to undertake this because of one police incident that went wrong it was the result of systemic issues in this city and the race and culture task force did not say we're going to look at policing and we are going to fix policing in fort worth the race and culture task force looked at everything because the best disinfectant is sunshine and that was the goal of this task force was to be the sunshine that the city needed and it is our job to make sure that we're applying that disinfectant that we're opening up those cartons and that we're letting the sunshine in I respect the work of that task force and I respect the work of the people that put their time and their efforts into it and they gave us recommendations and one of the recommendations that was loud and clear was that they wanted more oversight that there were members of this community that did not have trust in our police department and that one of the ways that we get there is through oversight through transparency through accountability in the same way that we have a code of ethics in the same way that you look at council in the same way that we audit other departments people of Fort Worth particularly historically marginalized communities and do be specific when we are talking about historically marginalized communities we are talking about black and brown people in this city have said that our voices are not at the table there's been a lot of discussion tonight about who was excluded from the list of people that can serve on this committee and how their voices were being excluded and I think that lacks the perspective of being one of those marginalized community members that tried to get to the table that fought to get to the table and still couldn't get there we heard a lot about it in redistricting and about what opportunity meant people have fought for opportunity this board is an opportunity and should be seen as such oversight is Kim Neal and her office's job and I think she does a fine job of doing that but to make sure that we're doing the work that we need to do to repair our community we have to take what the marginalized communities tell us as their reality at face value we don't get to replace it for them standing up this board takes life experience at face value and it says we hear you and we see you and we will actively work to right the wrongs of our community and I want to say that I think that our police department has come a long way but we still have miles and miles to go and that takes work and that takes trust and that takes the community and this is a really great opportunity to start that path I appreciate the work that's already been done and I think we can see that in the way our ccpd budget has been changed and funded but we know that we're not done we got an expert panel report that said we still have a lot of work to go we have a police oversight monitor that has recommended that we establish this board and so to me I will be supporting you in this vote chris and everyone in this room that I'm looking at that asked me and my colleagues to take their personal experience at face value to believe them and I would strongly urge my colleagues to do the same this isn't about what everyone wants and I've heard that a lot that well not everybody wants it and you're right not everybody wanted me I got a little over 60 of my vote not everybody wanted chris not everybody wanted linard or jared or matty or jena or allen or michael or carlos not everybody wanted us but we're still sitting here not the entire the whole city didn't want a 50 meter lap lanes about 100 residents got together and got loud and we found 3.5 million dollars in the budget to give them that you had a couple fussy constituents been the air ear of some folks on this dais some wealthy white women and now we're talking about what we can do to to change aquatic plans because but we didn't say I trust richards avala and his aquatics plan we gave in we said well maybe we should have that conversation that took one person so how many people does it take how many people of color does it take for us to listen and for me that threshold has been met thank you councilor firestone thank you mayor i'll just be fairly brief here and cover a couple things but you know i think i was worried honestly that the work of opum was would not be recognized in as significant ways i think it has ended up coming up tonight because i i do think ultimately the work of the office of police oversight monitor and this oversight committee that we're talking about is very redundant at its core it's redundant and you know you just look at the ordinance you look at the website of the oversight monitor where their stated mission is our vision is for the office for the office is for it to be a proactive leader in law enforcement and accountability to the fort worth police department and the population it serves and the the tenants of that are review policies and procedures monitor contacts and complaint investigations oversight and accountability community engagement and again i won't go through it all this evening but i would encourage people to go to their website and see the detail of the progress that they've made with the police force and the change agent that they've become with the fort worth police department in our community they have been a change agent for the better for the better and again their successes are listed on the website in there i think their annual report so i think those accomplishments really do clearly evidence that the work that we're talking about this evening with this committee again is duplicative the opom has worked very well under kim neal's leadership she's extraordinary and i think it's critical that we find a strong leader to fill her shoes which will be difficult but somebody that's going to continue to do that work additionally i mentioned it last week and i do think it's an important point again to recognize because it again it's significant and acts as a change agent for the better and i think it's the in the monies that we've dedicated for this coming year's budget which all in specifically in things that we are doing as a city and city leadership and as a police department to improve things as best we can we're dedicating about 32 million dollars to that project or to this effort ccpd is getting about 10 million dollars for 43 programs there's about 4.4 million dollars from arpa dedicated specifically to grassroots organizations and working with those people in the communities and neighborhoods that will have the most impact in those areas and giving them the dollars to be successful we have about more than a half a million in community relations 15 million to support our neighborhood patrol program and those officers one and a half million to the civilian response unit and about 230 in community information program 1.3 million to the code blue program you know my point would be that if we look back at the tail of the tape from the race and culture task force to opum to the the dollars that we're dedicating to the to the these real needs that we recognize absolutely and no one would debate that is that there's a culture change going on in Fort Worth there's a culture change going on at the police department all for the better all in transparency and creating accountability for everyone and when there's a problem as the chief said they act he clearly acts quickly and I think that can't that can't be ignored so I think it's about culture it's about a change agent and having city leadership police leadership that are encouraging and wanting a change agent and that's what we're experience experiencing and that's happened over the last dramatically so over the last three four four years it wasn't always that way for sure everyone's going to recognize that but we are addressing problems now when we are the leadership that can insert ourselves in that process so just a couple other quick things you know the vast majority of of the district's seven constituents that I've talked into we've heard from their the the consensus that I'm getting is in their belief is that by effectively placing an observer on the backs of our officers and an observer whose mission is in fact to find fault that will put our officers at risk and consequently our citizens at risk I think it's the safety of all will be at risk because of the causation we're going to create here right so put simply for fear of retribution officers may not act that's a scary thing to think about and it's it certainly makes our community less safe and and you know we can't we can't ignore the fact that there are unfortunately many cities around the country that have have recently experienced this reality those policies have created less safe cities what does that do obviously it influences crime it it influences quality of life and ultimately it leads to the demise of a city from an economic economic development and business standpoint so you know the last thing I want to mention is because it's come up a number of times is this issue about accountability and I think it's again important to note that one of the core tenants of this contemplated committee is just that accountability so it needs to be stated that there are multiple layers of accountability in around the police department it's department management it's the deplete police department website you can file an anonymous complaint you have internal fares you have command staff ultimately you have chief nooks of course there's open and of course everyone on this dais is equally accountable we we by definition are accountable for those that were managing so you know at the end of the day here you know to be frank I agree with miss opal Lee the chief is doing a good job and he deserves a chance to write the ship I think that's pretty dramatic from what an iconic person in the in the community so in considering all these aspects through the lens of public safety safety and proactive city leadership for the benefit of all our citizens I think this ordinance will do more harm than good and that's why I cannot support it thank you Dr. Williams thank you mayor first I just want to talk to my classmate and brother councilman nettles thank you for the work on this there was many times you tried to get this on the agenda for the past year and a half and you were patient and you tried to work with us as a council I meant when staff and so we're here and thank you for your work and I gave the second because I support this whole hardly section 15 of our charter says power to appoint boards or commissions of citizens the city council may at the request of the city manager or upon their own motion appoint boards or commissions to be composed of such number of citizens as the council may deem expedient to act in an advisory capacity in conjunction with anyone or more of the departments created or authorized here by the reason that this board is exclusively for residents is because we wanted to create a table for residents to be able to give their voice in an advisory nature to multiple departments including the police department opom I mean even our legal department in my neighborhood and the neighborhoods in district six I talked to thousands of folks and oftentimes I like to walk door to door to do that and what I hear reminds me especially when we talk about public safety as a district of a table that's sitting in my house when I was growing up in southwest Fort Worth my mom who was a second grade teacher my dad who is a black pastor had a dining room table and we never had a dining room big enough for us to put the leaf in the middle of the table and my mom and my black household she would yell at me for sitting at that table because it was meant for the china and anytime y'all get that later and very rarely will we sit at the table that table at least but for Thanksgiving Christmas Easter Mother's Day and Father's Day and occasionally somebody's birthday not everybody's um but what that leaf reminded me of is that our work as a city as your leaders as your representatives is about extending the table for more people to give input the thousands of doors that I knocked yes you absolutely right we support our police chief we this council voted unanimously on the largest budget that PD was ever given in the history of the city of Fort Worth regardless to what the mailer said and you know why because we need the police in our city it's a crucial service of the city and the thousands of doors that I knocked and got to talk with neighbors I was just in the neighborhood knocking for the arbor family so that we can get a memorial and a risinger to honor the arbor family and you know who was on the first non-scene MPO officer Hayes late at night and yet when I talk to my neighbors they say we want to say and we want to sit at the table and that's what this ordinance does the reason this provision is in this charter is because our neighborhoods deserve a say DJ he's the director of development services there's a zoning commission board my zoning commissioner dr. Mia Hall does the very best she can and yet we're not required to make sure that she can work in the development support services department Richard Savala has a parks advisory board and residents get a seat at that table and so we are operating within the authority that the charter has given us that has been approved by the voters of Fort Worth and the reason this provision is in there is because the residents of Fort Worth want a say in the services that are delivered to the city and I will always support our residents having to say a hundred percent this vote isn't about my trust for chief we give that the real way we just worked on a six million dollar youth gun violence initiative to address and prevent youth gun violence countywide this vote is about will we give our residents a say and I emphatically say yes I want to say good evening to all of you who are here today and Bob Ray even though Lily's not here I've been getting her text and for those of you who don't know who Lily is it's Lily Biggins the former housekeeper at JPS who became the president at Harris hospital downtown and that's because a guy named Doug Hawthorne the CEO of Texas health resources supported diversity he made a commitment that he wanted his hospitals to reflect the communities that they served Chris you took me back when you mentioned SB 4 I was on this council I voted for SB 4 I knew it was a losing vote but I always stand for my convictions and for those of you who don't follow things regularly you'll know from last week my conviction was to support this ordinance I have not wavered Dr. Bell I want to thank you for inviting me to participate in that Saturday call and allowing me to leave early because I had to go to the evil city to the east but you had me on there and I want to say thank you and I think more people who don't really talk to me found out some things about me that they didn't know Miss Young Pamela not only do I still thank you for having me at the 100 year old aunt grandmother celebration but thank you for inviting me to participate in that zoom call and I got a chance to meet the young lady next to you and it's good to see somebody as short as me I want to tell you all one more thing and then I'll get into my remarks there are three men who may be here tonight if I call your names and you hear I want you to stand one is DJ Harold DJ here stand up one is Reginald Zeno words William William Johnson what you all don't know is when I came to this council and we hired David Cook twice a year I would ask him to give me a report on the top three positions in every department and the reason why is because I was driving for diversity and I knew if I got that director the assistant director and that top manager we would see diversity these three men hold very high positions with the city of Fort Worth and we've never had that many at the same time thank you for standing you can have a seat diversity is very important that's how I make my living taking a look at diversity as mayor pro tem I know that I was one of the first David Cook notified that Kim Neil had tendered her resignation Kim when you when you told me I couldn't tell you I already knew but I did but personnel matters are supposed to be confidential but the very first question I asked David and David you remember this I asked you when is she leaving and when he told me my next comment was we got to get this vote done got to get the vote in before Kim leaves because we would lose intellectual property in depth and at that table last week that was proven when one of my colleagues posed a question about the standards that we were putting in this ordinance but for Kim's presence we could have been delayed even more because she knew and told us well that's really not required in boards and commissions and so thank you for being there now what has really gotten me confused and oh Pat I forgot Pastor Bell thank you for the one ten or one 11 a.m. talk this morning because I was in a bad kind of way as well but what what has gotten me confused this chief is so popular he has another group of black clergy who are advocating for delaying or not even doing this and that that shows that the African American community is not just one big way of thinking but what you need to know is one thing we all know is that disparities remain when I make a call to my baby brother and I don't get him I worry I worry I have worries that nobody has unless you're a person of color because my my baby brother has a history and if anything happens and someone with the history gets stopped it can go downhill very quickly and so those those are issues that that that bother me now one thing you need to know is we we knew last week that this would not pass but one thing all of my colleagues will tell you is I don't fall out with them because they don't vote the way I vote you know I live to work another day we're just trying to get around the table and get some ideas that we can bring people together one thing that happened to me today I introduced former congressman Pete Guerin to the is it called the Baptist ministers union pastor bell okay I introduced Pete to that group because he's talking about education reading and how children all over the city are not reading at great level but they don't know it the parents don't know that things are not good because the kids keep getting promoted and so before we were able to really talk one of the ministers of that group pulled me to the side to tell me why he was supporting that we not approve this tonight and so one reason why was because he felt chief nox needed to have a right to appoint who he wanted on that board before I could respond another pastor there who had been a former city department had a long time ago said well no it doesn't work that way and so what we have are people crossing over from political engagement into governance and if you don't understand the difference you can you can think you understand something and you really don't and so luckily this former department had said well man you got to understand if if this body goes through and it's created the chief will have presence at every meeting they have he will probably staff it and so the response was from that pastor oh I didn't know that the next conversation led to basically why it's needed and I reminded him for nearly two years two years bob ray nitty biggins rabbi bloom probably tim would I don't remember everybody but the race and culture task force met for nearly two years and that whether people know it or not was who was who was really working feverishly to make that happen and I loved her from then for it was our mayor because she saw the need so they met and what people may not really know if you didn't follow it from there another group was formed and that group came up with the idea of how this committee would function and so back to the preachers today the idea that the chief wouldn't have a voice really bothered one of these pastors and you know we explained to him well every board and commission that the city has is staffed by a department head and there was no need to make any kind of changes in the way we operate but there would be a voice there would be presence what I would tell you is the rub in this for many people people of color I'll be just point blank is the fact that all along we including me really thought this board this commission this committee whatever you want to call it we thought this was really going to happen because we always heard from the people on that board I mean people very conservative people you know asking when are you going to do this and all of a sudden to have the rug pulled out it just takes you back to a place where it's just not a real good safe place but you know people will overcome people who come from communities that are not totally respected uplifted are brilliantly resilient but that's because we have to be it's not not because you enjoy always the fight but no matter what the outcome is tonight yeah I'm going to still work with my colleagues I encourage all of us to continue working together but you need to know this this wasn't it it wasn't right wasn't right and so the text from Lily tonight is it makes no sense for this not to pass but I tell myself well here we are and here we are Fort Worth once again so I salute those of you who are here tonight glad to see you glad for those of you who remained some people left in a huff but you know Fort Worth will get through it but the right thing to do is in front of you and again boats aren't there but it's the right thing to do my opinion those are my remarks thank you lots been said this evening we've been here quite a while I want to thank everybody that came and spoke tonight everyone obviously very passionate and cares about this issue it's obvious that we have a lot of healing to do still that there's a lot of pain and we have to find ways forward I sincerely hope we get there chief I want to thank you for your words today and your willingness to work on this issue Kim I want to thank you for everything you've done you've been incredible for this city and I hate seeing you go Chris you've been a profile encourage this evening I have incredible respect for you for me I want to see healing I want to see things get better I want to see everyone at the table I don't agree with this structure for the table that doesn't mean we can't get there but that's where I am right now and I want to thank you all and I want to hope that we continue to work together as a city to make this better Michael thanks mayor I'm gonna try and be brief and try and be coherent but I'm tired I know y'all are tired too and as some of y'all are tired for far longer than than just this meeting and I recognize that but this process has just been clunky I made some notes here there's been no general consensus even from speakers etc what we've heard of what it should look like this has been rushed it's been hurried in my opinion in a lot of different ways even though I know people have said we've been waiting a long time but in this process that's no way to make policy and so Kim I want to say thank you to you what you brought to the city of Fort Worth you've done yeoman's work by taking lots of voices and opinions and trying to come to something and again and again I asked you over the meetings that we've had and calls that we've had are you not getting what you need to make sure that we're moving our policy forward for all of our citizens and again and again you've said I'm getting what I need etc and I've made a commitment if you weren't then let's talk and see how it can help I'm sorry to be losing you I know you're excited to be moving back or moving home but I'll say this period right now without leadership with you makes it even more difficult because I know that what happens next is people like when are we going to do something when we're going to do something and we've still got a process to hire a new police monitor so I think the timing is a little off as Mayor Pro Tem talked about as well we keep talking about the table and coming to the table and of course it really hurts my heart when you say my vote is whether I support or not support communities of color because I think you know where my heart is we spend enough time together but what I do believe in is the city overall and I'm proud of Fort Worth sometimes that we don't jump out and do the first thing every other city does that we take somewhat of a measured approach and what I heard tonight on a lot of different ways is the time that it that we might need and give the the chief a little bit of time chief come I have a question for you actually do you mind coming down here really quickly I won't belabor this but and I'll ask it as you're walking up I know back in 2019 the and I had a conversation with someone's on it the advisory committee that you had was disbanded it was after Chief Fitzgerald left Krauss etc but is in your intent in your is it your intention to reconstitute that board is it will you take suggestions from us or how will that process sort of work that no one's that wants a voice at that table is left out of the table when I'm say collaboration any collaboration from everyone including everyone at this dais and every community we serve in Fort Worth it'll be a long process to get all the voices involved that we we plan on doing the best we can to make it happen as quickly as possible I mean you've heard from a lot of voices here tonight there's been a lot of talk about this so I am putting some belief in you because I believe in you and our our our police department that you bring those voices to the table you take the recommendations from us of people that we want to see there people a lot of them in the audience and that collaboration and that and sort of working together and so with that that's where I am with this is that I want to give you that opportunity to bring all those together and work together to make our city better thank you council member thank you thank dr. Williams may have a question yeah chief nox chief one second and dj can you come down for a second sorry to put you on the spot yes sir dj I trust you a thousand percent if this council decided to make the zoning commission under your purview as an advisory committee which you support that recommendation did you have any other comments michael okay carlos thank you mayor I want to say thank you to everyone that stuck with us this long evening on a very important and factual topic this consumed me and I know probably several of our council members here's time not just recently but over time as well needless to say our city is growing in size changing in diversity and in a changing environment so does our police department have to adapt have I seen evidence of that yes I've seen some positive indicators as an example a recruiting efforts to recruit more diverse recruits to reflect respond and relate to all residents why do we do that not just a check a box but to increase public trust specialized training like de-escalation civilian response units are among some the recent changes you know that have been implemented in response not a reaction in response to community needs you know chris what you said you know resonated with me yes I have never walked in your shoes you have never walked in mine but you and I have walked some similar paths I've never said this publicly but I have shared this with you chief notes that when I was a teenager you know I was profound harassed by a forward police officer not an enjoyable experience completely unfair now what did I do with that experience me personally I didn't let it define me in a negative way I live my life not under that lens but under my terms that was my takeaway from it looking back as the department improved yes do we have work to do absolutely and that's evidenced by the expert panel report that we receive you know commissioned by the city we have much ground to cover still chief notes has acknowledged that during you know our questions to him and work sessions necessary changes happening and that was another takeaway from these experts it is happening it's been said before we've established the office of police oversight and monitor there's a city we continue to do this because disparities exist we live in an imperfect world people it'll never be perfect all we can do is strive to improve it kim neal you know and not to her has done a lot of good work has been said I regret that you're leaving and going back home to baltimore I think it needs to be said too why because you have been offered an opportunity to go home and I respect that but why because they want you over there to establish what you've established here and that's a testament to the effectiveness of what office you created here as a written this proposal for community police policy advisory board is it's currently named needs more work and more time in my opinion to be clear my support having increased accountability transparency oversight civilian advisory review input all that again this is an imperfect ordinance as written and in my opinion it was rushed into consideration because of some urgency here I'm not saying that urgency was misplaced all I'm saying is the process was hurried I can back that up by saying in my outreach which just did not occur recently to members of my district residents organizations of neighborhoods faith-based leaders the majority didn't even know what was going on that troubled me unaware I don't expect people to know every single agenda item on you know in front of us every given week but this is an important one and as such it bothered me that they didn't know and I spent the greater amount of time once I began to discover this explaining to them what was going on what was being considered it's important to engage people it's important that they know what their city government is doing no one can do it for them engagement is hard no matter how you set it up it's incumbent upon us to remain engaged many of you here that are still with us tonight is a testament unto itself that you are engaged you choose to be involved and I respect that I've spoken to members of the racing culture task force former members also the mutual accountability work group I don't make decisions in a vacuum those that know me know that those that don't ask someone who knows me it is critical for us to get this right and not rush into it I realize that there is some sense of urgency because Kim is leaving well I'm cognizant of that I don't want a bad product being produced in my district I have a historical African American community they're part of district two but beyond that many of them are lifelong friends why we grew up together the course of time living in the same area you know has bound it has bound us so I can appreciate part of their experience and I hope they can appreciate part of mine as a leader of this department Neil notes does not merely give orders and expect they be followed I mean there is that expectation but what is born of people abiding by what he says is respect if he doesn't command respect no one's going to pay any attention to his authority at least their minimum not just according to my you know opinion but he has provided leadership he has set the example and tone that we need and as I said before and I'll repeat it hopefully he said it best chief notes needs the opportunity to clean his house and we all acknowledge that there is cleaning needed I have observed and you can go to my council page when an officer is disciplined when an officer is terminated I post it I want people to know that there is internal accountability why is that important accountability is not something that is just exerted on a system or a body that's not lasting you have to have internal accountability enter and out so wrap up you know my comments I think this ordinance is not ready there are provisions of it that I'm not even sure adequately address or serve what collectively we would like to see I can give just sitting here on the dais a read and and make I don't know if this would wind up being a substitute motion you know I would to start with remove two-thirds vote of the council that requirement to remove a member of this CPP AB why is that important we are the duly elected officials we are representative form of government we're put in this place to represent you to represent as many folks as we can practically we are not going to get everyone on board with every single action we do impossible I would allow the participation of current law enforcement officers of any jurisdiction former and current and saying guanuti and affinity also permitted why members of our community to not just mere subject matter experts members of our community I am torn on the felony prescriptions as written I can see it both ways again sitting up here in the dice is not ideal bottom line my substitute motion would be to to make this right you have to revisit it and not just sitting up here those are my comments so for clarity's sake Carlos do you have an alternative motion on the floor I did understand the two things you were referring to on the two-thirds vote and allowing participation of police officers and family members you know I listed three mayor the third was felonies but I didn't get removed the felony prescriptions as written so you would not want someone to be allowed to serve if they have a felony on their record it's yeah so as written is okay with you just to be clear no no in the copy that I've received I see it unless maybe I'm not looking at the most current copy so I'll have I'll have leon speak to that in just a minute but are you proposing alternative motion to what chris has on the floor removing language from the current proposal right now in my read as I sit here those are things that come out at me okay alternative motion is this needs more time it needs to be revisited but if if there is and what I'm reading here is a desire to push this through then I would put those things on there those three things I did so the key thing here is do you want a motion to continue and with the caveat that these things would be considered in a continuance are you making a motion for these items to be removed from the current ordinance I'm making a motion to have those items removed okay I think chris had also had a question go ahead chris go ahead chris okay can I well I do have something to say I got asked two questions but I'm trying to get understanding on what just happened I think he's got an alternative motion on the floor which will go we'll have legal draft something in a second to make that more clear however okay it's the two-thirds vote removal would be taken out of the ordinance and the second piece would you would we would allow police participation officers of families to be able to participate police are police officer families or both yes or both so in other words there's not an exclusion current and former allow them to serve okay okay including family okay let me ask the question while lico is working on it uh I'm sorry Kim nil would you please come we have heard so much about you tonight and I think people need to be able to see you and while she's coming I want to um David ask me not to do this but this is a different question so Dave I got a question for you it's my check okay um David Cook um in in hiring uh Kim nil and uh as the officer monitor uh in serving this role is she considered as an expert uh over this oversight she's one of the experts in the entire country yes I'm sorry I'm saying she's an expert I would put her in the expert category in the entire country so yes we recruited her nationally thank you David so we consider her as an expert nationally not citywide national um we heard a couple things several things tonight and I've got a few questions for you one we heard the word rushed can you briefly tell us how long have you been working with the previous council new council and the working group how much work have you put into this working March of 2020 been working since day one we had several community groups that came to the mayor and to the council and put forth proposals as it related to a civilian review board um and so we have been talking about it since that time in December of 2020 we came to council after a conversation with the police department a collaboration with the police department um of which we recognized that the police advisory group had been postponed as of summer of 2019 and I worked with the then chief and one of the assistant chiefs to look at taking that same concept and basically moving it to the community side well where the council or whomever the work group chose which the work group ultimately chose the council would choose community members to sit on that advisory group so it was always a collaboration with police and the law department to move this forward so that was December 2020 that group started meeting that the first meeting was December 31st New Year's Eve and we met continuously for seven eight months to come up with the proposal in 21 which I brought to the council in September 21 so it's been the same proposal that entire time okay so you didn't go to sleep one night wake up and say we should have well let me ask this question what is your recommendation for this council should it establish a citizens review board so the first thing I want to say is that the proposal was one that was done by the work group right and the work group was composed of community members I didn't want it to be my office they proposed it the police department that proposed it the law department that proposed it we were all at the table as subject matter experts but it was the community group the working group we called it the mutual accountability working group that proposed this now what I've heard from community members overwhelmingly and particularly from our marginalized communities is that they are happy with our office but they want a community group review board because they feel like we are still working for the government and so they feel like this community group will represent the citizens concerns more and I won't say more objectively but they will hear hear the citizens because they actually live in those communities in which those citizens are coming from and so I think that's a valid request I think that we continue to make recommendations to the police department as it relates to policies and procedures but the community group can definitely accent the process they can allow community members to feel like they have even another voice through this group and also we always talk about it in a negative sense this community group can also be a voice for the police as it relates to policies and procedures of the police department so if for example and I use this example and I've used this example with several of you when we had the unfortunate death of Mr. George Floyd the concern across the country was about duty of intervene and whether Fort Worth police department had that policy on the books and many people didn't know if it did or not and so of course Fort Worth police did have that policy on the books and so we spent an enormous amount of time doing community engagements throughout Fort Worth talking about what happened but also informant community of that policy well I think it would be great to have this group that would look at that type of policy and be able to say they could also make recommendations but be able to say to the communities that they represent the Fort Worth police department has great policies as it relates to intervening so we look at it you know so many times people look at it as a negative light but it's absolutely could be a positive light and it could help bridge that gap that some of our marginalized communities have with the police department thank you you said that so adequately and I want to say that I heard you say that it just wasn't your idea alone it was a consensus between the departments and the working group who are made up of the city as a whole not just black folks not just it was a group of people it was a diverse group it was a diverse group absolutely and so this board being established if we take the Jefferson and it being a wellness check and if we look on the books of how we our general order of how we treat wellness checks as police officers this board can look and say if we if we have a policy or if we don't have a policy we can create a policy that basically says if you come out on a wellness check that you go to the front door you knock you announce yourself you call your supervisor before you enter the property on the wellness check can this type of board recommend that type of policy to be in place yes it absolutely could recommend that policy to the police department but the idea is that it's still collaborative correct right so it's not it's the board but also the police uh law department our department would be their subject matter experts to assist this board with with what they need as it relates to information um so it's a collaboration it's not just this group against the board and I you know I know that before our office was created a lot of people thought that our office will be adversarial also it's not civilian oversight is not meant to be adversarial now I know folks talk about different forms of civilian oversight and then some cities chiefs feel that they're adversarial but that's because there's different forms of civilian oversight and this one is an advisory group um there are uh some civilian oversight boards that are regulatory they have commissioners the police chief reports to those commissioners that's not this type of board that's going to be an adversarial relationship and so this board is meant to collaborate with the police department as we move forward because everybody has should have a say about the process and about the equitable treatment of community members across the city of Fort Worth I heard you say that this board will have the opportunity to hear from experts and so they just won't just be making decision off opinion wow I wish you not leave go ahead thank you thank you okay the the question I have for you pertains to that you call it the working group is that yes it's called okay yes who was or is on that working group and is it still active no who was on it yeah once we finalized the proposal the working group was finished with the working group um of course some of the members are here tonight so it was uh united fort worth or TCCO TCCO I've sometimes I missed the extra C um NAACP uh LULAC uh Hispanic Women's Network uh a member of the LGBTQ community perspective was represented and Escherstucker served as our moderator was anybody from the police department there yes oh I'm sorry and also Dr. Cedric Belcher from the faith based community the police department was there both an assistant chief a deputy chief as well as their policy guru the person who runs their policy department in the police department and she's a civilian she's not a sworn officer but she was there as well and then we also had legal at the time it was Sarah as our city attorney as well as Leticia and myself representing the police monitor's office was there any opposition to this ordinance from anybody on that group well the ordinance wasn't there wasn't created yet because they were coming up with the recommendation so what we did was under the guidance of Mr. Tucker we are we did the consensus building exercise and we reached consensus on the various issues that you see in the ordinance some things have been placed in there by legal as a result of the ordinances that have been created in the past for other boards to make the language consistent but as it relates to the membership as it relates to who appoints as related to the name those things were were reached through consensus building by the work group final question to you the ordinance before us developed by consensus from that working group you're telling us that there was no opposition to what you now see as the final product is that what you're telling yes there was no opposition there are some things that some members wanted to also include as a part of recommendation for example one of the things I pointed out in the presentation is council was the idea of whether a person could have a felony or not and what type of felony and so the working group couldn't come to a consensus on that it wasn't that they felt one way or the other about it it was that they couldn't come to a consensus so that was one of the things that they thought that the council could work out because we just could reach consensus on that my closing commentary on that and thank you is I told the body last week that I felt this could be a template that we could take around the nation to show because of the way Fort Worth does things and because of the efforts that this chief has demonstrated toward embracing diversity I see it as something that could work and now even though Carlos made that substitute motion we don't know who's going for both for it and who's not but I'm thankful because it does Carlos I'm talking about you it does open the door for this kind of conversation and so thank you to my colleague for bringing that up and Chris thank you for bringing Ms. Neil Ms. departing Neil to the podium and it has reached national news it has already been posted across this country by the various civilian oversight agencies so they are watching thank you Dr. Williams you had a question yeah I want to call Kim thank you so much that was really helpful DJ I want to call him back to clarify the record before we keep moving forward and thank you Carlos for facilitating the dialogue with your amendments DJ while you're walking down I'll clarify that question the reason I'm asking it is just for process but the question was if the council decommissioned the zoning commission for the sake of allowing that commission to exist as an advisory committee under your department would you be supportive of that recommendation no sir and I apologize for misunderstanding the question earlier yes sir would you explain a little bit why from your expertise and there's a reason for this I want to get us out of the context of this advisory board and put us in a different context of a similar board right so the planning and zoning commission are both advisory boards to city council right and my department and my staff act as also advisors to city council and secretaries for those boards in order to facilitate you guys making an ultimate zoning or policy decision and so that's the way you know it works in most cities right thank you for that I think that's important context and I'll leave it at that but it's important to know the difference between committees and advisory bodies to the council ultimately we're responsible for holding the city manager accountable in the city governance structure which ultimately holds the police accountable and accountability is not bad I don't I get held account of what the tarnary food bank every day and I love it because it makes me better I mean I think our city staff we have a culture of you know calling each other in and out in a loving way to make sure that our city is getting better at delivering services so thank you DJ for clarifying that Carl's did you have something go ahead I think I understand what you're saying councilmember Williams the difference which obviously between zoning and this is that there's a lot of statutory requirements around the zoning commission and this is something that you all are creating on your own action yeah so it's a little bit different it it definitely is and so as parts advisor there's definitely nuances to it but at the core it still fulfills section 15 of the charter which says that the council has an authority to authorize boards and commissions that advise them on core city functions all right and I appreciate the comments being said here you know can I appreciate that too what I was referring to when I was saying that the product in front of us was not presented as a completed product you know that's the reference from the point of time that we started seeing it what troubles me again and I'll repeat it is that even though I know that there were efforts tried to do outreach in the community through the survey link and I posted that link on my council page again not many people knew about it right those who participated that's good but when I get and again the majority of people in my district not knowing about it that troubles me and I'm going to go back to my comment about not enough time that's at the that's at the center you know of my concern right now you know right now you know we're having a discussion on the dais there were amendments proposed to us as recent as this weekend some of which I just found out about but there's this today we had no work session so there was no opportunity to talk about it as a council procedurally that bothers me well that said I don't know if I need to go back Leanne maybe I'll need your legal advice to clarify what it is I'm saying because I'm pointing out two things here right well I am willing to look at this document and look at it piece by piece and see if there are changes that can be made that this council could consider I'm reluctant to do this sitting up on the dais we're having an active conversation okay now procedurally and I'm not an attorney tell me do I need to offer clarification on you know my substitute motion because I was making observations I was asked well is that a substitute motion I try to put it to words so to clarify that what do I need to do so we wrote down on your substitute motion that you wanted to remove the two third vote requirement for removal of the members so I think the clarification that we would need for that one is do you want to then change it to have the members serve at the pleasure of council or do you simply want it to be a majority vote to remove the member okay so that would be one clarification and then another clarification would be when you're talking about allowing current law enforcement and family would that also include city employees because there's a current prohibition against allowing city employees so are you are you trying to encompass our police department or just potentially outside police department I see that's another clarification I would not I had not thought of that yeah that's a good distinction and then the felony restriction I wasn't real clear on what I tried to write that down but I wasn't really clear on what you were asking for so currently the ordinance states that a member can not have been finally convicted of a felony or if they are a convicted felon that the felony has been overturned at the appellate level are fully pardoned so there's options there that that you could do if you wanted to remove that as a requirement you know you could soften that to allow felons to serve if they're if they've been discharged from the provisions of you know whatever it is incarceration probation or parole I'm not sure if you would want them to serve if they're just currently on probation but that's another option so I mean there's there's different different options here that would need some clarification on in order to nail down so we could make the ordinance specific okay what I am clear on is this I don't think we have sufficient time to look at this and and the more I'm hearing discussion going on with the dies you know the more I'm thinking there are things that I have to consider right speaking for myself I'm uncomfortable with doing this deliberation on the dies it's different from doing it in a work session it's different from doing it that way all right I'll go back to what I said originally I don't think that this is ready I don't think that it is right I can point to some things that I can identify off you know a read right now but there may be more so that's where I'm at I don't know if it's simpler to just withdraw my motion and and do that because I am struggling right now to offer sufficient clarification so it sounds like your motion would be you're wanting to continue the vote and not vote on the current ordinance as written our point of order do let me just get clarification then we'll get there yeah thank you I just want to I'm trying to read into what you're saying here if that's your preference if you're wanting to pull your motion off we'll go through that process short answer yes okay and I'll say why okay all right listening to both kim neal and the chief right something that opposing sides of this argument it said right giving him sufficient chance to do something and not just simply clean up his apartment but to reconstitute his advisory committee it seemed that there was purchase there I've heard that some faith-based leaders had you know some support for that I think that's in line with giving him a chance to do just that so what I would just add I know me I know you try to do something let me just say this real quick this is really social social making as mad I mean Gina would say I would say this we want to take the vote tonight and so you have a substitute motion on the floor that's already been second if we can vote on that or if you're going to withdraw your motion whatever the legal process is but I'm asking you Carlos not to continue this case because you got a lot of people who have sat here in this 1030 let's take the vote tonight however people vote that's what happens and to be clear that's my point of order if the motion has been seconded can it be withdrawn or is what's the procedure if Leigh Ann could you because that's what I was motion and I seconded it so I feel like we're owed a vote on on Councilor Jeanette as your official parliamentarian okay well apparently I just got promoted congratulations um technically um since the motion was made and seconded um it can't be withdrawn because it belongs to the dais okay um and so that's if the council member was not comfortable with it the way you would handle it would be to vote it down and then you could make another motion if you wished to continue it to but to clarify for everyone his motion would not be a substitute motion if I understood because council member nettles made the motion to approve it with a name change you weren't opposed to the name change correct well I well that's true so that's the that's your main motion um so council member nettles made the main motion uh to approve with a name change as part of his motion and then you made a an amendment to his motion to take out those items does that make sense an amendment to his motion yes if you were making a substitute motion it would be to deny because it would be completely turning around his motion I think leon has some clarification here well let's yeah you could you could just vote on the withdrawal that's in the rules of procedure yes you could vote on a withdrawal so if you all agree that it's withdrawn then it'll just be withdrawn no I seconded the motion because I wanted to vote I think that the struggle is we're not clear on what the motion is that that's that's the struggle I'm clear on what I'm voting on and so I'm very clear on what I'm voting on maybe I need you to clarify because so councilman flora has made a motion to make three changes to remove the language to the ability of a felon with their rights restored which legal has told us was not even in the the document that that you were railing against the second one was the two-thirds the two-thirds vote which you in your motion you said to remove that and then to remove the prohibition of a police officer or their family member now if leon and so that's the motion that was seconded I don't think that there's any ambiguity to that I think that's pretty clear I would agree that's clear I think there are just a few things otherwise in the ordinance that would have to be clarified that are currently written such as my next question numeral six which is current or former city employee which is currently in the ordinance and so that was my question to leon is it a standard with the city on any other board and commission like is it a standard policy that current city employees cannot serve on any boards or commission is that in the charter or is that anywhere in the for the most part it ends up being a conflict with their job duties okay so there are there have been some odd instances where that's happened but it's very rare because it would normally be a conflict so this is distinction without difference it sounds like a move point so the motion is two-thirds removed and the prohibition against police officers and their family members being removed we did discuss it in work session that this particular issue and there was around the table discussion about whether or not someone who was a former law enforcement officer from another city being able to serve on that commission so I think that there has been discussion around the table about that the motion stands it was seconded let's vote so yes but it's your motion so if I'm understanding Lee incorrectly what would you prefer you would vote on his original motion pertaining to the two-thirds and a lot of participation of police officers and families it goes up or down how do you handle when a council member intends to withdraw said motion so that withdrawal would happen when they would have the council would have to approve the withdrawal so I think if you just vote on it as it is that would be the next procedural thing that would be best to do just voting on it up or down yeah and just so I understand from the motion from the council member that's making said motion do you support the motion that you made and that's an honest question right and and and to know where you're coming from because we're doing this on the fly I want to understand your intention on that motion so do you support the motion that you currently have on the floor no no okay so you have a motion and a second to which council member Flores doesn't support the motion so we're going to vote on that first council okay guys that makes sense go ahead Jared can I add some more discussion to this vote okay before we take the vote um I know I know but Carlos um you know I appreciate you making amendments we're elected to serve to do what we're doing right now um and so if we want to make amendments I'm I got an expecting wife due January 11th but I'm committed to staying until 8 a.m so if we want to go line by line and make amendments let's do it sign me up I roll up my sleeves I'll take my jacket off as a matter of fact let's do it come on line by line I hear you I'm here man let's line by line yeah any other comments or questions land you have your mic on do you have anything else here no what Rodney McIntosh is here and we're still talking about it so I think if you will allow him three minutes to speak he did sign up go ahead Rodney you snuck in I didn't see you how you doing good to see you time to start okay uh first of all uh good evening uh council members uh sorry for my tardiness man I uh found out a family member uh was murdered a couple days ago uh man and uh of course during the work I do man it seemed like death is always around me uh but I definitely had to come because there are a few things I was just sitting at the homeless and I got to hurry up a few things a few things I've heard that's kind of disturbing for me first of all remember when all of this first started man this was a big fight from so many people in this community to get this done man I honor Christian Eldersman for your uh consistent work uh Jarrah Williams for your consistent work uh Ms. Bivins for your consistent work and supporting other community oversight board and so many other people in this community and I definitely believe uh that the chief of Fort Worth police department is doing a great job I wouldn't I wouldn't stand him I always live by my convictions I believe he is doing a great job he is moving the police department forward but I also believe that from conversation that we had transparency is a big word that I always hear and it sounds like to me man this is just right just another layer to that transparency that the community is asking for uh and I'm it is my prayer and my desire man that y'all would vote for this to happen because man from from again from none said of this man so many people have fought for this to take place and now we're at this place and to see y'all here four hours later still fighting over over this man again I had enough time to sit at home talk to family members about somebody that died and then get her uh to show how uh I feel so man I think we need to move this on definitely need to vote and I think y'all have heard our community right y'all have heard our community since 2019 about how they feel about this but what really drove me down here also Mr. Florez again I'm always be honest and I have a lot of respect for you and you know it but I am a convicted felon and anytime I heard anybody in our community being pushed away from a table or not being given the opportunity served in pastamaic have a problem because if we went out for your your thoughts or your concept or your ideas as much work as I've done in this city what y'all have just said to me is that my voice no longer counts or it doesn't matter on this board or this this uh committee and for me that's frustrating this and not only is frustrating but it's painful so I'm gonna ask also that y'all if you do it make an amendment make an amendment to accept all people in this city to do this work because all people in this city should have a voice thank y'all so much. Carlos did you have something else your lights still on just making sure you don't have anything? I didn't know it was on I just wanted to say thank you Pastor Mackintosh and I appreciate your perspective and uh and where you are in life okay you are valued and respected. So we have a motion on the floor to make the amendments as articulated pertaining to the two-thirds vote for removal and allow participation of police officers and or family members that could be included um as is currently proposed by Council more floor as it was seconded by Elizabeth Beck so what we're going to do first is vote on that motion and then we'll figure out what we're going to do next after that sound like a plan okay no it's not it's not included okay is everybody in okay Carlos motions fail so we still have a live motion on the floor that was Councilmember Nettles earlier and a second I can't remember who second it was Jared Williams that seconded that motion um and we can vote on that motion on the floor unless there's any others up and down the stylus go ahead Carlos just just one question to make sure that I have it written down right uh Chris your motion was community police review board from community police advisory board or did I get that wrong what's your proposed name change Chris the proposed name is community let me open up my binder yeah I believe you wrote down community police review board which the original was community police policy advisory board correct it lacked the word review so I add a review in but took out policy advisory if I add policy advisory would you support it Carlos I'm just trying to clarify what you submitted Chris right that's what yeah that's let me uh amend my uh motion um yeah we can't do that so we got every second so we got to do the same thing again you could vote your own motion down then do it again I'm not voting my eyes down okay so motion stands on the floor okay um before we vote yeah can uh can another can another council member make amendments to that motion no no we could vote it down just like we did with Carlos you could have another motion at that point but okay so I'm gonna say a few things for a second um and if we stay one more hour y'all can ring in my 39th birthday with me tomorrow it's midnight I turn 39 so I have a feeling even if we vote on tonight's motion this discussion is not over and it shouldn't be I think this issue will come back to this council and we have a responsibility to keep having this discussion um and it's incredibly important right now because we are losing Kim Neal and her replacement will be very difficult but I trust that she's helping us already trying to think about the type of leadership we need in the police monitor's office when I ran for mayor I was public about and I said this in numerous discussions in forums and speaking about a Tatiana and I was honest with all audiences on west side on east side and south of Fort Worth I don't think there was a forum that I turned down and oftentimes I showed up by myself and I told those people that I don't think a Tatiana would have died the way she did in my neighborhood and that's a tough thing to say in my city but I believe it at my core and how do you heal a place there's been a lot said tonight that I don't agree with there's been a lot I do agree with and it's come from multiple different audiences and sometimes from the same person at the same time I think decorum and the way we treat each other matters and I texted my dad who's terrible at texting by the way he's a retired minister and he texts in all caps usually tried to explain to him that it means you're yelling but he doesn't understand and he sent me a scripture from the book of James and he said if any of you lacks wisdom you should ask God who gives generously to all without finding fault and it will be given to you and like always he's a wise man and I appreciated that scripture when I needed it I have to address something that my friend Chris said here tonight that I don't agree with whether you are red or blue or independent Democrat Republican it does not mean you don't care about people and I just have to say that is important the other thing I think is important for me to articulate is the way we took speakers tonight is the way we take speakers every night on any issue I don't see a final speaker list until I sit down at this desk and it's already sorted for me and it is always foreign against in that way from the city secretary's office there is no conspiracy that is the way it is listed the only time I have oftentimes gone out of order was when I see a mom with a young child in the audience and I think it's best to let her go home quickly and I've done that and use the privilege of this chair to my colleagues I will apologize for not letting you know ahead of time that I moved this item towards the end of the council meeting but I think now you can understand why I did that because some of those zoning cases would still be in front of us had I not done so but I'll apologize for not emailing you all and letting you know it was a very busy day as many as you realize and I had a kiddo that didn't get picked up on time so I was worried about him first so to move to this motion what I said earlier matters I don't think we're done here tonight and I am trusting my police chief and my friend chief nooks has worked tirelessly both on command staff before under the leadership of Ed Krause and today he's asking us for more time to create a real chief's advisory board and he's even said I want you to hold me accountable and that's his job that's our job from this dais however you have my pledge as your mayor I'm not done talking many of you in this room I've had phone calls with I'll keep having those tough conversations and I would argue that it may be possible we bring this back up again as he's creating a chief's advisory board this council is still toiling with this but you cannot let this issue be defining for this city and you may not always agree with me most this room may not have voted for me but I'm still your mayor right now and I don't care I'll work on your behalf just like anybody else because we are better together in this city and I believe that at my core this dais has to be an example for this community and I'm proud of the people that showed up today even the people I didn't agree with you are great examples of what it looks like to govern and what democracy looks like in action because you showed up and it takes a lot of bravery time away from your own families and you don't have to be here and you chosen to be at this dais so my vote tonight is actually for this community it's not against a police advisory board I'm not opposed to amendments and changes and some of the discussion here tonight this is not the way to do it not in the middle of an almost 11 o'clock evening changes can be made so to my colleagues if you want to bring this back up with additional changes and amendments please do so please do so I encourage you if you haven't already sat down with chief nooks understand where his vision is for this department please do so that's all I can ask it's all I can ask anything else Elizabeth no I just find it to be incredibly rude that you talk continuously when your colleagues are speaking it shows a level of disrespect that this dais does not deserve I think this vote's about to show a level of disrespect that these folks in this community don't serve but we can be difference of opinion let's vote mayor yeah go ahead more I have a hard time believing that this can come back we've had recommendations these same recommendations for a year and a half and the fact that no one came with amendments means that we're not willing to work this out so Carlos if you would like to make amendments I say we continue because I have no faith that anyone is going to bring amendments after this so let's keep working it out I signed up for this so we're going to stay here we're going to do line by line by line until we come to consensus because we've had two years and we wasted two years by not bringing amendments to this point so I hear Jared he may have a motion for continuance but we still have to well how would that work you vote on this anyway regardless you still have to vote on the current motion on the floor correct and then you come back to that okay so vote on the motion on the floor please so the motion was the Chris's original motion that was seconded by Dr. Williams which was to vote on the ordinance as written with the with the name change go ahead if if you if you want to do a continuance is that liens playing clarification here if you want to do a continuance before this vote you would need to do a motion to do that okay if I can make a motion that we continue working on this that's the like in this meeting that's the continuance I want line by line anything else and and that's the point I'm trying to make there's no keep working on this I I appreciate that sentiment but no one's bringing amendments to the table and we've spent hours with no amendments just criticism Jerry you have my commitment the the fight is not over this is just this if anybody's upset it's me and I feel you know I'm glad that you joining in and supporting this Carlos had a few amendments that he made but he voted them down and so let's take the vote and we're gonna keep working the next work session will ask for David to put it back on the future agenda item Carlos did you have something else your lights still on no I think my question was answered if I caught this uh Jared's uh I guess the intended motion was to continuance for continuing the meeting is that right okay all right I just want to be clear okay let me clarify for you Carlos all I would say was if you have amendments to make tonight which it seemed like you did I'm willing to sit here and talk this through because that's what we're here for I I mean yes that's just what the residents elected us to do and to be clear Jared you know when asked originally for the clarification you know I started picking some things out saying well this could be that that could be that but I prefaced it by saying I think that we need more time with it so to be fair to you you know staying here tonight I don't think is going to be productive that's fair brother I respect that okay so motion on the floor from council member nettles this is exactly the ordinance has written with the name change that was already articulated it was seconded by Dr. Williams please vote motion fails that would be the end of our agenda item thank you meeting adjourned